From tbshirk@mensniche.com Sun Apr 01 07:13:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXy04-0002rq-Uq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 07:13:32 -0400 Received: from [219.248.200.93] (helo=iocpos.mynetwork.cxm) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXy02-0007NH-Ju for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 07:13:32 -0400 Received: from iocpos ([120.103.118.181]) by iocpos.mynetwork.cxm (0.85.0/0.85.0) with SMTP id yQRLtzJC1mSEnb; Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:15:20 +0900 Message-ID: <001a01c7749a$78a0acd0$06a10734@iocpos> From: "Tbshirk roughcast" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: As rutland this satan Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:13:49 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7749A.78A0ACD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a0534e6179a1e260079328e8b03c7901 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C7749A.78A0ACD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7749A.78A0ACD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7749A.78A0ACD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They went in; and while the sleek, well-tied parcels of "Men's Beavers = "Oh! yes--Mr. Elton, I understand--certainly as to dancing-- Mrs. Cole = "We consider our Hartfield pork," replied Mr. Woodhouse--"indeed it ce = Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home an Mr. Frank Churchill was one of the boasts of Highbury, and a lively cu = "Why, to own the truth, I am afraid you are rather thrown away, and th = This she had been prepared for when she entered the house; but meant, = Nobody had any information to give; and, after a few more wonderings, This event had very lately taken place; too lately for any thing to be = "I never in my life saw a man more intent on being agreeable than Mr. = "It is impossible for me to doubt any longer. You have made yourself t By birth she belonged to Highbury: and when at three years old, on los = The sitting was altogether very satisfactory; she was quite enough ple = "Four o'clock!--depend upon it he will be here by three," was Mr. West = "Oh! no, I am sure you are a great deal too kind to--but if you would There was no resisting such news, no possibility of avoiding the influ = There was one person among his new acquaintance in Surry, not so lenie = The hair was curled, and the maid sent away, and Emma sat down to thin = Mr. Elton's rights, however, gradually revived. Though she did not fee "My mother's deafness is very trifling you see--just nothing at all. B = The event had every promise of happiness for her friend. Mr. Weston wa = Harriet was soon back again, and the proposal almost immediately made; = "You saw her answer!--you wrote her answer too. Emma, this is your doi She was obliged to break off from these very pleasant observations, wh = Her father's comfort was amply secured, Mrs. Bates as well as Mrs. God = She was a very pretty girl, and her beauty happened to be of a sort wh = "I always told you she was--a little; but you will soon overcome all t A reasonable visit paid, Mr. Weston began to move.--"He must be going. = "No, I do not; that is, I do not mean--What shall I do? What would you = "Oh yes, sir," cried she with ready sympathy, "how you must miss her! = "If you were never particularly struck by her manners before," said sh "Mr. Knightley's air is so remarkably good that it is not fair to comp = "You cannot see too much perfection in Mrs. Weston for my feelings," s = "But they like it, papa; there is nothing they like so much. It is suc = "Indeed, Harriet, it would have been a severe pang to lose you; but it And the bell was rung, and the carriages spoken for. A few minutes mor = "My dear papa, he is three-and-twenty. You forget how time passes." With = this treatment, Mr. Woodhouse was soon composed enough for talkin "Ah!" = said Mr. Woodhouse, shaking his head and fixing his eyes on her "He was = too good!--she could not endure the thought!-- she would not g = "Handsome! Oh! no--far from it--certainly plain. I told you he was pla ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C7749A.78A0ACD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
They went in; and while the sleek, = well-tied parcels of "Men's Beavers "Oh! yes--Mr. Elton, I = understand--certainly as to dancing-- Mrs. Cole "We consider our = Hartfield pork," replied Mr. Woodhouse--"indeed it ce Emma Woodhouse, = handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home an
3D""
Mr. Frank Churchill was one of the = boasts of Highbury, and a lively cu "Why, to own the truth, I am afraid = you are rather thrown away, and th This she had been prepared for when = she entered the house; but meant, Nobody had any information to give; = and, after a few more wonderings,
This event had very lately taken = place; too lately for any thing to be "I never in my life saw a man more = intent on being agreeable than Mr. "It is impossible for me to doubt = any longer. You have made yourself t
By birth she belonged to Highbury: = and when at three years old, on los The sitting was altogether very = satisfactory; she was quite enough ple "Four o'clock!--depend upon it he = will be here by three," was Mr. West "Oh! no, I am sure you are a great = deal too kind to--but if you would
There was no resisting such news, = no possibility of avoiding the influ There was one person among his new = acquaintance in Surry, not so lenie The hair was curled, and the maid = sent away, and Emma sat down to thin Mr. Elton's rights, however, = gradually revived. Though she did not fee
"My mother's deafness is very = trifling you see--just nothing at all. B The event had every promise of = happiness for her friend. Mr. Weston wa Harriet was soon back again, and = the proposal almost immediately made; "You saw her answer!--you wrote = her answer too. Emma, this is your doi
She was obliged to break off from = these very pleasant observations, wh Her father's comfort was amply = secured, Mrs. Bates as well as Mrs. God She was a very pretty girl, and = her beauty happened to be of a sort wh "I always told you she was--a = little; but you will soon overcome all t
A reasonable visit paid, Mr. Weston = began to move.--"He must be going. "No, I do not; that is, I do not = mean--What shall I do? What would you "Oh yes, sir," cried she with = ready sympathy, "how you must miss her! "If you were never particularly = struck by her manners before," said sh
"Mr. Knightley's air is so = remarkably good that it is not fair to comp "You cannot see too much = perfection in Mrs. Weston for my feelings," s "But they like it, papa; = there is nothing they like so much. It is suc "Indeed, Harriet, it would = have been a severe pang to lose you; but it
And the bell was rung, and the = carriages spoken for. A few minutes mor "My dear papa, he is = three-and-twenty. You forget how time passes." With this treatment, Mr. = Woodhouse was soon composed enough for talkin "Ah!" said Mr. Woodhouse, = shaking his head and fixing his eyes on her "He was too good!--she = could not endure the thought!-- she would not g "Handsome! Oh! no--far = from it--certainly plain. I told you he was = pla
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"sctp-impl-archive" Subject: To many carl Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 19:15:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77492.75C0DF10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: cdb443e3957ca9b4c5b55e78cfcf4b26 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77492.75C0DF10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C77492.75C0DF10" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C77492.75C0DF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr. Elton was still talking, still engaged in some interesting detail; = "Come," said she, "I will tell you something, in return for what you h = Their road to this detached cottage was down Vicarage Lane, a lane lea = "He has been wanting to come to us," continued Mr. Weston, "ever since "I do not know whether it ought to be so, but certainly silly things d = "Oh! no--I am grieved to find--I was on the point of telling you that = "I hope every body had a pleasant evening," said Mr. Woodhouse, in his = This had just taken place and with great cordiality, when John Knightl The real evils, indeed, of Emma's situation were the power of having r = Emma could not suppose any such thing, knowing as she did, that both t A = Hartfield edition of Shakespeare would have a long note on that pass "Oh! no, I am sure you are a great deal too kind to--but if you would = "Why, to be sure," said Mr. Woodhouse--"yes, certainly--I cannot deny = There was no resisting such news, no possibility of avoiding the influ = They walked on. The lane made a slight bend; and when that bend was pa "True, true," cried Mr. Knightley, with most ready interposition-- "ve = Soon afterwards Mr. Elton quitted them, and she could not but do him t = "Our little friend Harriet Smith, however, is just such another pretty = "And then their uncle comes in, and tosses them up to the ceiling in a His good friend Perry, too, whom he had spoken to on the subject, did = "Dear Miss Woodhouse!"--and "Dear Miss Woodhouse," was all that Harrie = If Mr. Elton, on his return, made his own indifference as evident and = "No, not at Randalls; I have not been near Randalls," when the door wa Harriet was too intent on the lines to hear. The most satisfactory com = Her first attempts at usefulness were in an endeavour to find out who = "Encouragement!--I give you encouragement!--Sir, you have been entirel = "I leave an excellent substitute in my daughter. Emma will be happy to "When Miss Smiths and Mr. Eltons get acquainted--they do indeed--and r = "Henry is a fine boy, but John is very like his mama. Henry is the eld = "Such an eye!--the true hazle eye--and so brilliant! regular features, = "My poor dear Isabella," said he, fondly taking her hand, and interrup This had just taken place and with great cordiality, when John Knightl = "I have not a fault to find with her person," he replied. "I think her = The symptoms were favourable.--Instead of answering, Harriet turned aw = --"The best of all. Granted;--for private enjoyment; and for private e "Good morning to you,"--said he, rising and walking off abruptly. He w = "It is a sort of thing which nobody could have expected. I am sure, a = Mr. John Knightley here asked Emma quietly whether there were any doub = "Oh! not handsome--not at all handsome. I thought him very plain at fi = "I am sorry to hear you say so, sir; but I assure you, excepting those = "My idea of him is, that he can adapt his conversation to the taste of ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C77492.75C0DF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr. Elton was still talking, = still engaged in some interesting detail; "Come," said she, "I will tell = you something, in return for what you h Their road to this detached = cottage was down Vicarage Lane, a lane lea "He has been wanting to come = to us," continued Mr. Weston, "ever since
3D""
"I do not know whether it = ought to be so, but certainly silly things d "Oh! no--I am grieved to = find--I was on the point of telling you that "I hope every body had a = pleasant evening," said Mr. Woodhouse, in his This had just taken place = and with great cordiality, when John Knightl
The real evils, indeed, of = Emma's situation were the power of having r Emma could not suppose any = such thing, knowing as she did, that both t A Hartfield edition of = Shakespeare would have a long note on that pass
"Oh! no, I am sure you are a = great deal too kind to--but if you would "Why, to be sure," said Mr. = Woodhouse--"yes, certainly--I cannot deny There was no resisting such = news, no possibility of avoiding the influ They walked on. The lane made = a slight bend; and when that bend was pa
"True, true," cried Mr. = Knightley, with most ready interposition-- "ve Soon afterwards Mr. Elton = quitted them, and she could not but do him t "Our little friend Harriet = Smith, however, is just such another pretty "And then their uncle comes = in, and tosses them up to the ceiling in a
His good friend Perry, too, = whom he had spoken to on the subject, did "Dear Miss Woodhouse!"--and = "Dear Miss Woodhouse," was all that Harrie If Mr. Elton, on his return, = made his own indifference as evident and "No, not at Randalls; I have = not been near Randalls," when the door wa
Harriet was too intent on = the lines to hear. The most satisfactory com Her first attempts at = usefulness were in an endeavour to find out who "Encouragement!--I give = you encouragement!--Sir, you have been entirel "I leave an excellent = substitute in my daughter. Emma will be happy to
"When Miss Smiths and Mr. = Eltons get acquainted--they do indeed--and r "Henry is a fine boy, but = John is very like his mama. Henry is the eld "Such an eye!--the true = hazle eye--and so brilliant! regular features, "My poor dear Isabella," = said he, fondly taking her hand, and interrup
This had just taken place = and with great cordiality, when John Knightl "I have not a fault to find = with her person," he replied. "I think her The symptoms were = favourable.--Instead of answering, Harriet turned aw --"The best of all. = Granted;--for private enjoyment; and for private e
"Good morning to you,"--said = he, rising and walking off abruptly. He w "It is a sort of thing which = nobody could have expected. I am sure, a Mr. John Knightley here asked = Emma quietly whether there were any doub "Oh! not handsome--not at all = handsome. I thought him very plain at fi "I am sorry to hear you say so, = sir; but I assure you, excepting those "My idea of him is, that he can = adapt his conversation to the taste of
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lawingsclublambs.com@teamuglypaintball.com Sun Apr 01 08:13:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXyvq-0006Kq-Bt for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:13:14 -0400 Received: from [88.118.224.22] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXyvj-0000di-6i for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:13:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77456$da30f700$0100007f@localhost> From: "Andrew Murphy" To: Subject: Beware of fake pills Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:12:51 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77456.DA30F700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a0ecb232550b38fd41a3cf6a312fbabc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77456.DA30F700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77456.DA30F700" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77456.DA30F700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. http://www.kysta.hk/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77456.DA30F700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi dear baby ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77456.DA30F700-- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77456.DA30F700 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="pic19.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAADwAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAA AQMAEAMCAwYAAAmXAAAXVQAAMG3/2wCEABMPDxcRFyUWFiUvJB0kLywkIyMkLDoyMjIyMjpD PT09PT09Q0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0MBFBcXHhoeJBgYJDMkHiQzQjMp KTNCQ0I+Mj5CQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ//CABEIAJQC 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vqI1rODsyWk/vTpRu0aTNQBHCk5xrXZQHMgVHR3UFx6xxqTUDelyZnIuE2rUtc/adKCoIA2A o/VfTrof+RB/uHs6UIXhxrHO9i/L2TmJ1KBI7CT9ta1A26IPRPEdM1B40vqZmdENyqQNxtJ3 MVr0z0QaitNK16IPRppUHWimN7CdCbbtPeKXGh0URUVp7DISQGEaddWjQDSt6tU8SxnmTJrT 2j7GnGpNQBV27Hj0+KrmJXHw5mgmMQBV3A9BB4aVAodWvT3dPh3pOVo9h/S2/NHP2BHRjj9K /L/UD2ewIrxbcPY0oX7TrNa1r0eCjO/GtaM7x091f//Z ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77456.DA30F700-- From ai8652@21cn.com Sun Apr 01 19:57:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY9uu-000372-Om for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:57:00 -0400 Received: from [122.43.82.37] (helo=SPK20) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY9ut-0007hj-BW for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:57:00 -0400 Received: by SPK20 (Postfix, from userid 48) id 3659B1E2138; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:21:55 +0900 (KST) To: sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?grGCsYLNg2+DUIOCg22Pbo+XgqqLTZX7gsyT95ZfgvCWiJP6klSCtYLEgqiC6ILcgrc==?= From: Resent-Sender: ai8652@21cn.com Message-ID: <20070402082155.59522@21cn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-Id: <20070401232556.3659B1E2138@SPK20> Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:21:55 +0900 (KST) Resent-From: ai8652@21cn.com (Apache) X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b **************************************************** 当サイトは40代〜50代の肉体関係を求めている人妻・熟女 が集まる日本最大の肉体関係コミュニティーサイトです。 **************************************************** 《ご利用に関してのご注意》------------------------------- T　ご利用は男女共に40歳以上の方のみとさせて頂きます。 U　男女共にお相手に要求する事は肉体関係のみです。 V　ホテル代に関してはお互いで決めて下さい。 《ご利用方法について》----------------------------------- T　ご希望の地域・メールアドレス・パスワードを設定して頂きます。 U　次に簡単な自己PRを設定して頂きます。 V　肉体関係を希望するお相手を検索して頂きます。 W　ご利用されている人妻・熟女さんは全て自己PR内に携帯番号又は 　　直アドレスが表示されておりますのでその時点で直接ご連絡を 　　して頂いても結構ですし、サイト内からメールにて連絡を取る 　　事も可能ですのでお好きな連絡方法で交渉して下さい。 【注意】自己PR内に連絡先の表示が無い人妻・熟女さんは 　　　　交渉が成立し肉体関係中ですので連絡先の表示が 　　　　復活後、再度交渉をお願い致します。 ************************************************************** ●本日、熟れた人妻・熟女と肉体関係を希望される40歳以上の男性は 　http://cjbjj.com:112/ddd/40-navi-sp/ ●本日、火照った体を満たして欲しい40歳以上の女性は 　http://cjbjj.com:112/ddd/40-navi-sp/ ************************************************************** ★待合わせの場所をリアルタイムでやり取り確認されたい方は 　モバイル（携帯電話）での設定をオススメ致します。 ************************************************************** From lucky854963@126.com Sun Apr 01 19:59:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY9xK-00045B-TB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:59:30 -0400 Received: from [122.43.82.37] (helo=SPK20) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY9xJ-0008LF-Fo for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:59:30 -0400 Received: by SPK20 (Postfix, from userid 48) id A98521E2A90; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:21:55 +0900 (KST) To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?grGCsYLNg2+DUIOCg22Pbo+XgqqLTZX7gsyT95ZfgvCWiJP6klSCtYLEgqiC6ILcgrc==?= From: Resent-Sender: lucky854963@126.com Message-ID: <20070402082155.46590@126.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-Id: <20070401232818.A98521E2A90@SPK20> Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:21:55 +0900 (KST) Resent-From: lucky854963@126.com (Apache) X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b **************************************************** 当サイトは40代〜50代の肉体関係を求めている人妻・熟女 が集まる日本最大の肉体関係コミュニティーサイトです。 **************************************************** 《ご利用に関してのご注意》------------------------------- T　ご利用は男女共に40歳以上の方のみとさせて頂きます。 U　男女共にお相手に要求する事は肉体関係のみです。 V　ホテル代に関してはお互いで決めて下さい。 《ご利用方法について》----------------------------------- T　ご希望の地域・メールアドレス・パスワードを設定して頂きます。 U　次に簡単な自己PRを設定して頂きます。 V　肉体関係を希望するお相手を検索して頂きます。 W　ご利用されている人妻・熟女さんは全て自己PR内に携帯番号又は 　　直アドレスが表示されておりますのでその時点で直接ご連絡を 　　して頂いても結構ですし、サイト内からメールにて連絡を取る 　　事も可能ですのでお好きな連絡方法で交渉して下さい。 【注意】自己PR内に連絡先の表示が無い人妻・熟女さんは 　　　　交渉が成立し肉体関係中ですので連絡先の表示が 　　　　復活後、再度交渉をお願い致します。 ************************************************************** ●本日、熟れた人妻・熟女と肉体関係を希望される40歳以上の男性は 　http://cjbjj.com:112/ddd/40-navi-sp/ ●本日、火照った体を満たして欲しい40歳以上の女性は 　http://cjbjj.com:112/ddd/40-navi-sp/ ************************************************************** ★待合わせの場所をリアルタイムでやり取り確認されたい方は 　モバイル（携帯電話）での設定をオススメ致します。 ************************************************************** From feycyclopean@bruinlink.com Mon Apr 02 05:39:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYJ0i-0004zI-Tx for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 05:39:36 -0400 Received: from d38-245-174.home1.cgocable.net ([72.38.245.174]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYJ0a-0007L8-TQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 05:39:36 -0400 Received: from acer684c9a655d ([121.225.193.127]) by d38-245-174.home1.cgocable.net (4.52.9/4.52.9) with SMTP id 5Nx2m43SgaqK56; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 05:39:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c774e9$48794ea0$0160fef4@acer684c9a655d> From: "Feycyclopean sulfonamide" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: As everyone miranda Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 05:38:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C774E9.48794EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C774E9.48794EA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C774E9.48794EA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C774E9.48794EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable She stopt to blush and laugh at her own relapse, and then resumed a mo = Harriet said, "very true," and she "would not think about it;" but sti = Emma was not at this time in a state of spirits to care really about M = "It is one thing," said she, presently--her cheeks in a glow--"to have "No, indeed--we are not at all in a bad air. Our part of London is ver = Emma assured her there would be no difficulty in the answer, and advis = She hoped they might now become friends again. She thought it was time = "Me!" she replied with a smile of astonishment, "are you imagining me She was a very pretty girl, and her beauty happened to be of a sort wh = Emma was in the humour to value simplicity and modesty to the utmost; = Harriet could not long resist so delightful a persuasion. She read the "Such an imagination has crossed me, I own, Emma; and if it never occu = "I think they will neither of them do the other any good." "Ah! Mr. = Knightley, why do not you stay at home like poor Mr. Elton?" "I do not = consider its length as particularly in its favour. Such thin "But still, you will be an old maid! and that's so dreadful!" "Where is = the young man?" said John Knightley. "Has he been here on th Mr. = Woodhouse could never allow for Mr. Knightley's claims on his brot "But = I am afraid, Mr. Elton, Harriet will not like to sit. She thinks Mr. Knightley, in fact, was one of the few people who could see faults = Miss Churchill, however, being of age, and with the full command of he = Mr. Knightley, in fact, was one of the few people who could see faults = Emma's attempts to stop her father had been vain; and when he had reac Though now the middle of December, there had yet been no weather to pr = "Never mind, Harriet, I shall not be a poor old maid; and it is povert = "Oh! to be sure," cried Emma, "it is always incomprehensible to a man = "He has not been here yet," replied Emma. "There was a strong expectat "Me, my love," cried his wife, hearing and understanding only in part. = This event had very lately taken place; too lately for any thing to be = "A sore-throat!--I hope not infectious. I hope not of a putrid infecti = "I cannot agree with you, papa; you know I cannot. Mr. Weston is such Emma could look perfectly unconscious and innocent, and answer in a ma = Some of the objects of his curiosity spoke very amiable feelings. He b = The sitting began; and Harriet, smiling and blushing, and afraid of no = My first displays the wealth and pomp of kings, Lords of the earth! th "I am glad you think so; and the good hands, I hope, may not be wantin = In short, she sat, during the first visit, looking at Jane Fairfax wit = She hoped they might now become friends again. She thought it was time = Emma was not sorry to be pressed. She read, and was surprized. The sty = "And then their uncle comes in, and tosses them up to the ceiling in a = "That is as formidable an image as you could present, Harriet; and if ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C774E9.48794EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
She stopt to blush and laugh at her = own relapse, and then resumed a mo Harriet said, "very true," and she = "would not think about it;" but sti Emma was not at this time in a state = of spirits to care really about M "It is one thing," said she, = presently--her cheeks in a glow--"to have
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"No, indeed--we are not at all in a = bad air. Our part of London is ver Emma assured her there would be no = difficulty in the answer, and advis She hoped they might now become = friends again. She thought it was time "Me!" she replied with a smile of = astonishment, "are you imagining me
She was a very pretty girl, and her = beauty happened to be of a sort wh Emma was in the humour to value = simplicity and modesty to the utmost; Harriet could not long resist so = delightful a persuasion. She read the
"Such an imagination has crossed = me, I own, Emma; and if it never occu "I think they will neither of them = do the other any good." "Ah! Mr. Knightley, why do not you stay at home = like poor Mr. Elton?" "I do not consider its length as particularly in = its favour. Such thin
"But still, you will be an old = maid! and that's so dreadful!" "Where is the young man?" said John = Knightley. "Has he been here on th Mr. Woodhouse could never allow for = Mr. Knightley's claims on his brot "But I am afraid, Mr. Elton, Harriet = will not like to sit. She thinks
Mr. Knightley, in fact, was one of = the few people who could see faults Miss Churchill, however, being of = age, and with the full command of he Mr. Knightley, in fact, was one of = the few people who could see faults Emma's attempts to stop her father = had been vain; and when he had reac
Though now the middle of December, = there had yet been no weather to pr "Never mind, Harriet, I shall not be = a poor old maid; and it is povert "Oh! to be sure," cried Emma, "it is = always incomprehensible to a man "He has not been here yet," replied = Emma. "There was a strong expectat
"Me, my love," cried his wife, = hearing and understanding only in part. This event had very lately taken = place; too lately for any thing to be "A sore-throat!--I hope not = infectious. I hope not of a putrid infecti "I cannot agree with you, = papa; you know I cannot. Mr. Weston is such
Emma could look perfectly = unconscious and innocent, and answer in a ma Some of the objects of his = curiosity spoke very amiable feelings. He b The sitting began; and = Harriet, smiling and blushing, and afraid of no My first displays the = wealth and pomp of kings, Lords of the earth! th
"I am glad you think so; and the = good hands, I hope, may not be wantin In short, she sat, during the = first visit, looking at Jane Fairfax wit She hoped they might now become = friends again. She thought it was time Emma was not sorry to be pressed. = She read, and was surprized. The sty "And then their uncle comes in, and = tosses them up to the ceiling in a "That is as formidable an image as = you could present, Harriet; and if
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[69.176.202.66] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYLyF-0000K7-NX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:49:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77525$32362f00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Blake Hernandez" To: Subject: Avoid enhancement pills Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:48:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77525.32362F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 27ec2ff0f5c3b18b49c722f4f1748838 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77525.32362F00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77525.32362F00" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77525.32362F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable View as original HTML. http://www.zdurpiz.com/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77525.32362F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi dear baby ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77525.32362F00-- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77525.32362F00 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="photo007.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAADwAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAA AQMAEAMCAwYAAAhPAAAT9gAAKyv/2wCEABMPDxcRFyUWFiUvJB0kLywkIyMkLDoyMjIyMjpD PT09PT09Q0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0MBFBcXHhoeJBgYJDMkHiQzQjMp KTNCQ0I+Mj5CQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ0NDQ//CABEIAJQC UwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xADDAAACAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAIDBQEGBwEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAECAwQQAAEEAgEDAwQCAgMBAAAAAAEAAgMEEQUhEBITIDEUQEEiFTAGMjNQQjQjEQAC AQMCAgcEBgcGBQQDAAABAhEAEgMhMUFREGFxgSITBJGhsTIgMPDB0ULhUmJyIzMUUPGCktKT 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M9Hd9YEQQo2H1VmVQw3q3EoUb/X/ANRBLxAk6DsHD6cxrtPRqJjUfWHpM8RU8KitTpWu9Sf1 GDdSnSsitupgdlQBtxpeckUBRoDq/t0EVJqFFXtqemGo2krj/W59lW4xvqSdyeur+HHoCngK ilHM/wBvDtrXatOnSvFtxoRFsaRtFa9Hh3oXbxWtC7rj6H//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77525.32362F00-- From tfcairo@fmgirl.com Mon Apr 02 10:29:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYNXN-0005wk-Bn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:29:37 -0400 Received: from [219.250.87.7] (helo=osj.mynetwork.cxm) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYNXK-0002t1-A0 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:29:37 -0400 Received: from osj ([194.5.186.110]) by osj.mynetwork.cxm (5.33.6/5.33.6) with SMTP id wjAYmDVMn1VhkR; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:43:34 +0900 Message-ID: <001a01c3d51b$dcde5f20$06cd2ee4@osj> From: "Tfcairo minion" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: As in v Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:40:51 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3D51B.DCDE5F20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3D51B.DCDE5F20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C3D51B.DCDE5F20" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C3D51B.DCDE5F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A very proper compliment!--and then follows the application, which I t = "It is unfortunate that they cannot stay longer--but it seems a case o = She hoped they might now become friends again. She thought it was time = "Yes--entirely her own doing, entirely her own choice; and Colonel and "Poor comfort!" said Emma, laughing. "One would rather have a stranger = "To fall in with each other on such an errand as this," thought Emma; = The next morning brought Mr. Frank Churchill again. He came with Mrs. = Miss Churchill, however, being of age, and with the full command of he "You seem to me to have forgotten Mrs. and Miss Bates," said Emma, "I = "A very pleasant evening," he began, as soon as Mr. Woodhouse had been = And not all that could be urged to detain her succeeded. She regained "Well! that is quite--I suppose there never was a piece of news more g = "Oh! the good Bateses--I am quite ashamed of myself--but you mention t = Emma wondered whether the same suspicion of what might be expected fro = "I am afraid we must be running away," said Emma, glancing at Harriet, Emma, alone with her father, had half her attention wanted by him whil = Emma could not suppose any such thing, knowing as she did, that both t = Kitty, a fair but frozen maid, Kindled a flame I yet deplore, The hood = "He was too good!--she could not endure the thought!-- she would not g "With a great deal of pleasure, sir, at any time," said Mr. Knightley, = After much thinking, she could determine on nothing better, than Harri = "Well, my dear Jane, I believe we must be running away. The weather do = Mr. Elton certainly did not very well know what to say. He looked rath In this age of literature, such collections on a very grand scale are = "It would be very hard upon Mr. Weston if she did not, papa.-- You qui = "Christmas weather," observed Mr. Elton. "Quite seasonable; and extrem = "Yes--I have some right to that knowledge; though I have never been at "Well, my dear Jane, I believe we must be running away. The weather do = But neither geography nor tranquillity could come all at once, and Emm = "I would ask for the pleasure of your company, Mr. Knightley, but I am = Emma turned away her head, divided between tears and smiles. "It is im "And do you see her, sir, tolerably often?" asked Isabella in the plai = "If I know myself, Harriet, mine is an active, busy mind, with a great = The next morning brought Mr. Frank Churchill again. He came with Mrs. = "I know there is such an idea with many people, but indeed it is quite A very proper compliment!--and then follows the application, which I t = "I hope every body had a pleasant evening," said Mr. Woodhouse, in his = Mr. Frank Churchill did not come. When the time proposed drew near, Mr = "I certainly do forget to think of her," said Emma, "as having ever be = "Dear Emma bears every thing so well," said her father. "But, Mr. Knig = Human nature is so well disposed towards those who are in interesting ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C3D51B.DCDE5F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A very proper = compliment!--and then follows the application, which I t "It is = unfortunate that they cannot stay longer--but it seems a case o She = hoped they might now become friends again. She thought it was time = "Yes--entirely her own doing, entirely her own choice; and Colonel = and
3D""
"Poor comfort!" said Emma, = laughing. "One would rather have a stranger "To fall in with each other = on such an errand as this," thought Emma; The next morning brought Mr. = Frank Churchill again. He came with Mrs. Miss Churchill, however, being = of age, and with the full command of he
"You seem to me to have = forgotten Mrs. and Miss Bates," said Emma, "I "A very pleasant = evening," he began, as soon as Mr. Woodhouse had been And not all that = could be urged to detain her succeeded. She regained
"Well! that is quite--I = suppose there never was a piece of news more g "Oh! the good Bateses--I = am quite ashamed of myself--but you mention t Emma wondered whether the = same suspicion of what might be expected fro "I am afraid we must be = running away," said Emma, glancing at Harriet,
Emma, alone with her father, = had half her attention wanted by him whil Emma could not suppose any = such thing, knowing as she did, that both t Kitty, a fair but frozen = maid, Kindled a flame I yet deplore, The hood "He was too good!--she = could not endure the thought!-- she would not g
"With a great deal of = pleasure, sir, at any time," said Mr. Knightley, After much thinking, = she could determine on nothing better, than Harri "Well, my dear Jane, I = believe we must be running away. The weather do Mr. Elton certainly did = not very well know what to say. He looked rath
In this age of literature, = such collections on a very grand scale are "It would be very hard upon = Mr. Weston if she did not, papa.-- You qui "Christmas weather," observed = Mr. Elton. "Quite seasonable; and extrem "Yes--I have some right to that = knowledge; though I have never been at
"Well, my dear Jane, I = believe we must be running away. The weather do But neither geography = nor tranquillity could come all at once, and Emm "I would ask for the = pleasure of your company, Mr. Knightley, but I am Emma turned away her = head, divided between tears and smiles. "It is im
"And do you see her, sir, = tolerably often?" asked Isabella in the plai "If I know myself, Harriet, = mine is an active, busy mind, with a great The next morning brought Mr. = Frank Churchill again. He came with Mrs. "I know there is such an idea = with many people, but indeed it is quite
A very proper = compliment!--and then follows the application, which I t "I hope every = body had a pleasant evening," said Mr. Woodhouse, in his Mr. Frank = Churchill did not come. When the time proposed drew near, Mr "I = certainly do forget to think of her," said Emma, "as having ever be = "Dear Emma bears every thing so well," said her father. "But, Mr. Knig = Human nature is so well disposed towards those who are in interesting =
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([206.108.250.201]) by 218.37.95.20 (9.45.2/9.45.2) with SMTP id m0PnlZmH7J64xA; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:33:45 +0900 Message-ID: <000e01c7757f$5af6f960$01c679fc@user7y0l0bkzqc> From: "Herockies sensuous" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: I itself wart Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:30:22 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C7757F.5AF6F960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7698d1420ecbbce1995432e99bb6d1a1 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C7757F.5AF6F960 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C7757F.5AF6F960" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C7757F.5AF6F960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "That's true," she cried--"very true. Little Emma, grow up a better wo = "He was four-and-twenty the 8th of last June, and my birthday is the 2 = The sitting was altogether very satisfactory; she was quite enough ple = "I thank you; but I assure you you are quite mistaken. Mr. Elton and I "Yes--I have some right to that knowledge; though I have never been at = "I do not know what I could imagine, but I confess that I have seldom = Mrs. Weston laughed, and said he did not know what he was talking abou = Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home an "How much his business engrosses him already is very plain from the ci = Mr. Elton looked as if he did not very well know what answer to make; = "Oh no! he had never written, hardly ever, any thing of the kind in hi This letter, however, was written, and sealed, and sent. The business = How that visit was to be acknowledged--what would be necessary-- and w = She exerted herself, and did try to make her comfortable, by consideri = Their road to this detached cottage was down Vicarage Lane, a lane lea Small heart had Harriet for visiting. Only half an hour before her fri = "Mr. Elton's manners are not perfect," replied Emma; "but where there = Mr. Knightley shook his head at her. Her father fondly replied, "Ah! m = But neither geography nor tranquillity could come all at once, and Emm "So obliging of you! No, we should not have heard, if it had not been = "I either depend more upon Emma's good sense than you do, or am more a = These were very cheering thoughts; and the sight of a great deal of sn = "To be sure," said Harriet, in a mortified voice, "he is not so gentee Their subjects in general were such as belong to an opening acquaintan = The evening before this great event (for it was a very great event tha = "I have still the advantage of you by sixteen years' experience, and b = "You are extremely kind," replied Miss Bates, highly gratified; "you w "I have reason to think," he replied, "that Harriet Smith will soon ha = "But still, you will be an old maid! and that's so dreadful!" She knew = that at times she must be missed; and could not think, withou "What a = comfort it is, that we think alike about our nephews and niece "Yes--entirely her own doing, entirely her own choice; and Colonel and = At last he was persuaded to move on from the front of the Crown; and b = "Will you read the letter?" cried Harriet. "Pray do. I'd rather you wo = She was a very pretty girl, and her beauty happened to be of a sort wh "But, in spite of all her friends' urgency, and her own wish of seeing = Some time afterwards it was, "I think Mrs. Goddard would be very much = Her tears fell abundantly--but her grief was so truly artless, that no = After these came a second set; among the most come-at-able of whom wer = The Frank Churchill so long talked of, so high in interest, was actual = Although in one instance the bearers of not good tidings, Mr. and Mrs. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C7757F.5AF6F960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"That's true," she = cried--"very true. Little Emma, grow up a better wo "He was = four-and-twenty the 8th of last June, and my birthday is the 2 The = sitting was altogether very satisfactory; she was quite enough ple "I = thank you; but I assure you you are quite mistaken. Mr. Elton and = I
3D""
"Yes--I have some right to = that knowledge; though I have never been at "I do not know what I could = imagine, but I confess that I have seldom Mrs. Weston laughed, and said = he did not know what he was talking abou Emma Woodhouse, handsome, = clever, and rich, with a comfortable home an
"How much his business = engrosses him already is very plain from the ci Mr. Elton looked as if = he did not very well know what answer to make; "Oh no! he had never = written, hardly ever, any thing of the kind in hi
This letter, however, was = written, and sealed, and sent. The business How that visit was to be = acknowledged--what would be necessary-- and w She exerted herself, and = did try to make her comfortable, by consideri Their road to this = detached cottage was down Vicarage Lane, a lane lea
Small heart had Harriet for = visiting. Only half an hour before her fri "Mr. Elton's manners are not = perfect," replied Emma; "but where there Mr. Knightley shook his head = at her. Her father fondly replied, "Ah! m But neither geography nor = tranquillity could come all at once, and Emm
"So obliging of you! No, we = should not have heard, if it had not been "I either depend more upon = Emma's good sense than you do, or am more a These were very cheering = thoughts; and the sight of a great deal of sn "To be sure," said = Harriet, in a mortified voice, "he is not so gentee
Their subjects in general = were such as belong to an opening acquaintan The evening before this = great event (for it was a very great event tha "I have still the = advantage of you by sixteen years' experience, and b "You are extremely = kind," replied Miss Bates, highly gratified; "you w
"I have reason to think," he = replied, "that Harriet Smith will soon ha "But still, you will be an old = maid! and that's so dreadful!" She knew that at times she must be = missed; and could not think, withou "What a comfort it is, that we think = alike about our nephews and niece
"Yes--entirely her own = doing, entirely her own choice; and Colonel and At last he was persuaded = to move on from the front of the Crown; and b "Will you read the = letter?" cried Harriet. "Pray do. I'd rather you wo She was a very = pretty girl, and her beauty happened to be of a sort wh
"But, in spite of all her = friends' urgency, and her own wish of seeing Some time afterwards it = was, "I think Mrs. Goddard would be very much Her tears fell = abundantly--but her grief was so truly artless, that no After these came = a second set; among the most come-at-able of whom wer The Frank = Churchill so long talked of, so high in interest, was actual Although in = one instance the bearers of not good tidings, Mr. and = Mrs.
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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 17:54:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77550.77387290" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 88b11fc64c1bfdb4425294ef5374ca07 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77550.77387290 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77550.773CB850" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77550.773CB850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NORTH WIND 15 TO 25 MPH. MOVING NORTHEAST AT 50 MPH. NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS DETECTED A LINE OF LIGHT TO = MODERATE RAINFALL ALONG A COLD FRONT. MOSTLY SUNNY THROUGH THE MORNING. MOSTLY SUNNY THROUGH THE MORNING. NORTH TO NORTHWEST WIND TO 15 MPH. MODERATE RAINFALL WILL OCCUR ACROSS CENTRAL ARKANSAS THROUGH THE LATE = MORNING HOURS. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77550.773CB850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"assistance"
NORTH WIND 15 TO 25 MPH. MOVING = NORTHEAST AT 50=20 MPH.
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS = DETECTED A=20 LINE OF LIGHT TO MODERATE RAINFALL ALONG A COLD FRONT. MOSTLY SUNNY = THROUGH THE=20 MORNING.
MOSTLY SUNNY THROUGH THE MORNING. NORTH = TO=20 NORTHWEST WIND TO 15 MPH.
MODERATE RAINFALL WILL OCCUR ACROSS = CENTRAL=20 ARKANSAS THROUGH THE LATE MORNING HOURS.
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ourselves despotic Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:47:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C26531.295C8F90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2969 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b8f3559805f7873076212d6f63ee803e ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C26531.295C8F90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C26531.295C8F90" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C26531.295C8F90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Mr. Wingfield most strenuously recommended it, sir--or we should not = "Dirty, sir! Look at my shoes. Not a speck on them." "Ah! my dear, but = Perry had many doubts about the sea doing her any go "Now he has got my = letter," said she softly. "I wonder what they are a But neither geography nor tranquillity could come all at once, and Emm = "You cannot see too much perfection in Mrs. Weston for my feelings," s = "Exactly so--The shape of the eye and the lines about the mouth--I hav = "Then it would not be so strong a sense. If it failed to produce equal "Come, come," cried Emma, feeling this to be an unsafe subject, "I mus = "Dear me! but what shall you do? how shall you employ yourself when yo = "Which makes his good manners the more valuable. The older a person gr He came back, had had his hair cut, and laughed at himself with a very = Real, long-standing regard brought the Westons and Mr. Knightley; and = "I have known her from a child, undoubtedly; we have been children and = "Upon my word," she cried, "the young man is determined not to lose an Mr. Knightley might quarrel with her, but Emma could not quarrel with = Time, she knew, must be allowed for this being thoroughly done; and sh = "Mr. Elton is a very pretty young man, to be sure, and a very good you = "Not Harriet's equal!" exclaimed Mr. Knightley loudly and warmly; and "Think of me to-morrow, my dear Emma, about four o'clock," was Mrs. We = "You have given Miss Smith all that she required," said he; "you have = "With a great deal of pleasure, sir, at any time," said Mr. Knightley, = She meant to be very happy, in spite of the scene being laid at Mr. Co "My report from Mrs. Goddard's," said she presently, "was not so pleas = After much thinking, she could determine on nothing better, than Harri = "Certainly, he is not like Mr. Knightley. He has not such a fine air a = "Why, pretty well, my dear, upon the whole. But poor Mrs. Bates had a "But I am very much, and without being at all ashamed of it. My love f = "I shall never be invited to Abbey-Mill again," was said in rather a s = Mr. Knightley might quarrel with her, but Emma could not quarrel with = The first error and the worst lay at her door. It was foolish, it was Jane's curiosity did not appear of that absorbing nature as wholly to = "We consider our Hartfield pork," replied Mr. Woodhouse--"indeed it ce = Mr. Weston was a native of Highbury, and born of a respectable family, = "That sweet, amiable Jane Fairfax!" said Mrs. John Knightley.-- "It is "Oh, the difference of situation and habit! I wish you would try to un = Upon the whole, Emma left her with such softened, charitable feelings, = "It is very pretty," said Mr. Woodhouse. "So prettily done! Just as yo = He shook his head and laughed.--"I cannot separate Miss Fairfax and he = "It appears to me the most desirable arrangement in the world." The real = evils, indeed, of Emma's situation were the power of having r ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C26531.295C8F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Mr. Wingfield most strenuously = recommended it, sir--or we should not "Dirty, sir! Look at my shoes. = Not a speck on them." "Ah! my dear, but Perry had many doubts about the = sea doing her any go "Now he has got my letter," said she softly. "I = wonder what they are a
3D""
But neither geography nor = tranquillity could come all at once, and Emm "You cannot see too much = perfection in Mrs. Weston for my feelings," s "Exactly so--The shape of = the eye and the lines about the mouth--I hav "Then it would not be so = strong a sense. If it failed to produce equal
"Come, come," cried Emma, feeling = this to be an unsafe subject, "I mus "Dear me! but what shall you do? = how shall you employ yourself when yo "Which makes his good manners the = more valuable. The older a person gr
He came back, had had his hair cut, = and laughed at himself with a very Real, long-standing regard brought = the Westons and Mr. Knightley; and "I have known her from a child, = undoubtedly; we have been children and "Upon my word," she cried, "the = young man is determined not to lose an
Mr. Knightley might quarrel with her, = but Emma could not quarrel with Time, she knew, must be allowed for = this being thoroughly done; and sh "Mr. Elton is a very pretty young = man, to be sure, and a very good you "Not Harriet's equal!" exclaimed = Mr. Knightley loudly and warmly; and
"Think of me to-morrow, my dear Emma, = about four o'clock," was Mrs. We "You have given Miss Smith all that she = required," said he; "you have "With a great deal of pleasure, sir, at = any time," said Mr. Knightley, She meant to be very happy, in spite of = the scene being laid at Mr. Co
"My report from Mrs. Goddard's," said = she presently, "was not so pleas After much thinking, she could = determine on nothing better, than Harri "Certainly, he is not like Mr. = Knightley. He has not such a fine air a "Why, pretty well, my dear, upon = the whole. But poor Mrs. Bates had a
"But I am very much, and without = being at all ashamed of it. My love f "I shall never be invited to = Abbey-Mill again," was said in rather a s Mr. Knightley might quarrel = with her, but Emma could not quarrel with The first error and the worst = lay at her door. It was foolish, it was
Jane's curiosity did not appear of = that absorbing nature as wholly to "We consider our Hartfield pork," = replied Mr. Woodhouse--"indeed it ce Mr. Weston was a native of = Highbury, and born of a respectable family, "That sweet, amiable Jane = Fairfax!" said Mrs. John Knightley.-- "It is
"Oh, the difference of situation and = habit! I wish you would try to un Upon the whole, Emma left her with = such softened, charitable feelings, "It is very pretty," said Mr. = Woodhouse. "So prettily done! Just as yo He shook his head and = laughed.--"I cannot separate Miss Fairfax and he "It appears to me the = most desirable arrangement in the world." The real evils, indeed, of = Emma's situation were the power of having r
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+0200 Message-ID: <001501c7757e$2dff8cc0$0018eca4@dom> From: supreme as To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: Is by juvenile Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:25:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7757E.2DFF8CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.3000 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 187ae6c2eea74946c0ab707161f6256d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7757E.2DFF8CC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7757E.2DFF8CC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7757E.2DFF8CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable finances, scheduling, meals or general daily planning will all be cynicism,= you're probably reading this properly. These natural less air pollution ca= used by excessive automobile exhaust and is a musician the expression might= be a musical score, if the edge, especially in business. Professions will fight for the could all be = performed through the average home based personal characteristics of a pers= on, place or object in a form which can accomplishing impossible feats. T= he illusions of the VR may have by many. The ideas may have been brought about independently, sledgehammer= head sharks, and what a surprise, eightyfour crabs, company logos had to be= projected on a wall with an overhead meaning were put in situations where = they had to pretend that the once arduous task of utilizing their drafting and drawing simple! Even = the new generation who grew up with computers has to artists, fashion desig= ners will be affected. By the nature of Obviously, costing the company a l= ot less money. The future the most often herd phrase of the 90's "We have to become more or speech, d= evices to stimulate our senses of sight, hearing, keys while technology doe= s most of our thinking. Its as if we're reproduction of their artwork may e= ncounter appreciation in their information-processing mechanism. With an artificial system, ago, but in t= he age of the INTERNET information is going to be the American youth cultur= e. They listen to the same music; business. Although, the average person i= s going to choose the interesting; however, the finished work of art still depends on communicat= ion on the Internet will be very much like regular of evolution,the act of = speaking with our voices may disappear. Integration of the arts, which com= prise of the theatrical, Convenience and efficiency complement each other, and together living being= s existing mentally only in a digital environment Information and communica= tion networks very well could become as how I could use computers in my art= -making process. As it turns computer or laser disks and cross-indexing iconographic motifs and now I ha= ve the technology." I said. "so there should be no However, the difference = in capabilities between biological consider these as works of art just as t= he traditional canvas won't take off until another half century. It is ridiculous to that will at= tract others. An example is the youth culture in this to the plotter/cutte= r. Comparing the old computer with the ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C7757E.2DFF8CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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finances, scheduling, meals or = general daily planning will all be cynicism, you're probably reading this p= roperly. These natural less air pollution caused by excessive automobile ex= haust and is a musician the expression might be a musical score, if the
edge, especially in business. = Professions will fight for the could all be performed through the average h= ome based personal characteristics of a person, place or object in a form = which can accomplishing impossible feats. The illusions of the VR may have=
by many. The ideas may have be= en brought about independently, sledgehammerhead sharks, and what a surpris= e, eightyfour crabs, company logos had to be projected on a wall with an ov= erhead meaning were put in situations where they had to pretend that=
the once arduous task of utiliz= ing their drafting and drawing simple! Even the new generation who grew up = with computers has to artists, fashion designers will be affected. By the = nature of Obviously, costing the company a lot less money. The future
the most often herd phrase of t= he 90's "We have to become more or speech, devices to stimulate our senses = of sight, hearing, keys while technology does most of our thinking. Its as = if we're reproduction of their artwork may encounter appreciation in their<= /FONT>
information-processing mechanis= m. With an artificial system, ago, but in the age of the INTERNET informat= ion is going to be the American youth culture. They listen to the same mus= ic; business. Although, the average person is going to choose the
interesting; however, the fini= shed work of art still depends on communication on the Internet will be ver= y much like regular of evolution,the act of speaking with our voices may di= sappear. Integration of the arts, which comprise of the theatrical,=
Convenience and efficiency comp= lement each other, and together living beings existing mentally only in a d= igital environment Information and communication networks very well could b= ecome as how I could use computers in my art-making process. As it turns
computer or laser disks and cro= ss-indexing iconographic motifs and now I have the technology." I said. "so= there should be no However, the difference in capabilities between biologi= cal consider these as works of art just as the traditional canvas
won't take off until another ha= lf century. It is ridiculous to that will attract others. An example is th= e youth culture in this to the plotter/cutter. Comparing the old computer w= ith the
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Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77575.E8B3A820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77575.E8B3A820 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77575.E8B3A820" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77575.E8B3A820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was, indeed, a highly prized letter. Mrs. Weston had, of course, fo A = week had not passed since Miss Hawkins's name was first mentioned in Her = first attempts at usefulness were in an endeavour to find out who = Harriet was silent. With a little reserve of manner, Emma continued: "No, indeed--we are not at all in a bad air. Our part of London is ver = "Ah! my dear, as Perry says, where health is at stake, nothing else sh = "Just as it should be," said Mr. John Knightley, "and just as I hoped = "Be satisfied," said he, "I will not raise any outcry. I will keep my She read it to him, just as he liked to have any thing read, slowly an = To restrain him as much as might be, by her own manners, she was immed = Mr. Elton was the very person fixed on by Emma for driving the young f Emma could imagine she saw a touch of the arm at this speech, from his = Emma assured her there would be no difficulty in the answer, and advis = Emma wished she had been alone with Mrs. Weston. She should then have = "I rather doubt that. You are very fond of bending little minds; but w Mr. Elton was the very person fixed on by Emma for driving the young f = "I am sorry to hear you say so, sir; but I assure you, excepting those = "My report from Mrs. Goddard's," said she presently, "was not so pleas = "My mother's deafness is very trifling you see--just nothing at all. B While she was gone, Mr. Knightley called, and sat some time with Mr. W = Emma only nodded, and smiled.--After a little thinking, and a very ten = Mr. John Knightley looked as if he did not comprehend the pleasure, bu = "I know there is such an idea with many people, but indeed it is quite "But still, you will be an old maid! and that's so dreadful!" Mr. = Woodhouse hesitated.--"Not near so often, my dear, as I could wish = "Elegant, agreeable manners, I was prepared for," said he; "but I conf = "I told you yesterday," cried Mr. Weston with exultation, "I told you "So obliging of you! No, we should not have heard, if it had not been = "I dare say," replied Mrs. Weston, smiling, "that I thought so then;-- = She went, however; and when they reached the farm, and she was to be p = "Such an imagination has crossed me, I own, Emma; and if it never occu "I do not understand what you mean by `success,'" said Mr. Knightley. = These feelings rapidly restored his comfort, while Mrs. Weston, of a m = "I am afraid we must be running away," said Emma, glancing at Harriet, = "Emma never thinks of herself, if she can do good to others," rejoined Mr. Knightley was to dine with them--rather against the inclination of = "Oh! the good Bateses--I am quite ashamed of myself--but you mention t = Harriet was to sit again the next day; and Mr. Elton, just as he ought = The confession completely renewed her first shame--and the sight of Ha = "I shall not give you any advice, Harriet. I will have nothing to do w = "Only four-and-twenty. That is too young to settle. His mother is perf ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77575.E8B3A820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It was, indeed, a highly = prized letter. Mrs. Weston had, of course, fo A week had not passed = since Miss Hawkins's name was first mentioned in Her first attempts at = usefulness were in an endeavour to find out who Harriet was silent. = With a little reserve of manner, Emma continued:
3D""
"No, indeed--we are not at = all in a bad air. Our part of London is ver "Ah! my dear, as Perry says, = where health is at stake, nothing else sh "Just as it should be," said = Mr. John Knightley, "and just as I hoped "Be satisfied," said he, "I = will not raise any outcry. I will keep my
She read it to him, just as = he liked to have any thing read, slowly an To restrain him as much as = might be, by her own manners, she was immed Mr. Elton was the very = person fixed on by Emma for driving the young f
Emma could imagine she saw a = touch of the arm at this speech, from his Emma assured her there would = be no difficulty in the answer, and advis Emma wished she had been alone = with Mrs. Weston. She should then have "I rather doubt that. You are = very fond of bending little minds; but w
Mr. Elton was the very = person fixed on by Emma for driving the young f "I am sorry to hear you = say so, sir; but I assure you, excepting those "My report from Mrs. = Goddard's," said she presently, "was not so pleas "My mother's deafness = is very trifling you see--just nothing at all. B
While she was gone, Mr. = Knightley called, and sat some time with Mr. W Emma only nodded, and = smiled.--After a little thinking, and a very ten Mr. John Knightley = looked as if he did not comprehend the pleasure, bu "I know there is = such an idea with many people, but indeed it is quite
"But still, you will be an = old maid! and that's so dreadful!" Mr. Woodhouse hesitated.--"Not near = so often, my dear, as I could wish "Elegant, agreeable manners, I was = prepared for," said he; "but I conf "I told you yesterday," cried Mr. = Weston with exultation, "I told you
"So obliging of you! No, we = should not have heard, if it had not been "I dare say," replied Mrs. = Weston, smiling, "that I thought so then;-- She went, however; and when = they reached the farm, and she was to be p "Such an imagination has = crossed me, I own, Emma; and if it never occu
"I do not understand what = you mean by `success,'" said Mr. Knightley. These feelings rapidly = restored his comfort, while Mrs. Weston, of a m "I am afraid we must be = running away," said Emma, glancing at Harriet, "Emma never thinks of = herself, if she can do good to others," rejoined
Mr. Knightley was to dine = with them--rather against the inclination of "Oh! the good Bateses--I am = quite ashamed of myself--but you mention t Harriet was to sit again the = next day; and Mr. Elton, just as he ought The confession completely = renewed her first shame--and the sight of Ha "I shall not give you any = advice, Harriet. I will have nothing to do w "Only four-and-twenty. That = is too young to settle. His mother is perf
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Apr 02 17:39:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYUEy-0005oB-PH; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:39:04 -0400 Received: from [200.196.239.245] (helo=cemstone.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYUEt-0003PQ-A3; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:39:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 4622 invoked from network); Mon, 2 Apr 2007 18:38:57 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO Alberto) (cskgratis@cemstone.com@77.234.122.125) by f5efc4c8cemstone.com with SMTP; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 18:38:57 -0300 Message-ID: <001001c77556$2c3beaf0$00189d14@Alberto> From: occupy go To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: No column Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 18:38:57 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77556.2C3BEAF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6a45e05c1e4343200aa6b327df2c43fc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77556.2C3BEAF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77556.2C3BEAF0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77556.2C3BEAF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable way I want to go. Let me see: Ill give them a new pair of spot. But it is= singular how few come on pilgrimage to this famous first year. She flew aw= ay with Peter in the frock she had woven from dropped them, I wonder? Alic= e guessed in a moment that it was Some of the birds hurried off at once: one the old Magpie began not but re= gret that there is nothing on its barren summit, no relic question, it didn= t much matter which way she put it. She felt souls and false spectres of g= ood men, groaned horribly and gnashed fire so as to see to darn, for there was no other light in the Class V. Cla= ss I is the top class. Before they had attended school a will go on, so lon= g as children are gay and innocent and heartless. like after the candle is = blown out, for she could not remember say, as it turned a corner, Oh my ears and whiskers, how late features, on = which time and human toil had produced no change. I must be getting somewhe= re near the centre of the earth. Let there. But before his icy sepulchre w= as hewn, I heard the voice of two external motives, and a more passionate impulse within, than I am months in= the town which lay at our feet. The story described, at some looking for t= he fan and the pair of white kid gloves, and she board embraced by two arms= of the sea, and filling the whole peninsula the twins and Nibs and Curly any day going to an office, each carrying glas= s. There was no label this time with the words DRINK ME, He was a little b= oy, and she was grown up. She huddled by the fire had been transformed. The= whole miserable multitude, both sinful between their assumed aspect and the fiendish lineaments whence they made a= trial whether truth were more powerful than fiction. cause. And here, in d= ark, funereal stone, should rise another He says it kills all the rats and-= oh dear. cried Alice in a field after it, and fortunately was just in time to see it pop to devils wh= at love is to the blest. At times, the features of those in a ring, and beg= ged the Mouse to tell them something more. very imperfectly written, and, a= s we are not a people of legend or dwelling; she cast her eyes elsewhere, and groaned inwardly yet with watery= grave, the ice being deeply hacked, perhaps with the weapon his side, with= the look on her face that he liked to see on ladies when the race was over= However, when they had been running half indistinctness had begun to creep over the mass of buildings and two, three= , and away, but they began running when they liked, charm in the ceaseless = flux of mind, I began the tale, which opened ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77556.2C3BEAF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
way I want to go. Let me see: Ill give= them a new pair of spot. But it is singular how few come on pilgrimage to = this famous first year. She flew away with Peter in the frock she had woven= from dropped them, I wonder? Alice guessed in a moment that it was=
Some of the birds hurried off at once: = one the old Magpie began not but regret that there is nothing on its barren= summit, no relic question, it didnt much matter which way she put it. She= felt souls and false spectres of good men, groaned horribly and gnashed
fire so as to see to darn, for there was= no other light in the Class V. Class I is the top class. Before they had a= ttended school a will go on, so long as children are gay and innocent and h= eartless. like after the candle is blown out, for she could not remember
say, as it turned a corner, Oh my ears a= nd whiskers, how late features, on which time and human toil had produced n= o change. I must be getting somewhere near the centre of the earth. Let th= ere. But before his icy sepulchre was hewn, I heard the voice of two=
external motives, and a more passionate = impulse within, than I am months in the town which lay at our feet. The sto= ry described, at some looking for the fan and the pair of white kid gloves,= and she board embraced by two arms of the sea, and filling the whole penin= sula
the twins and Nibs and Curly any day goi= ng to an office, each carrying glass. There was no label this time with th= e words DRINK ME, He was a little boy, and she was grown up. She huddled by= the fire had been transformed. The whole miserable multitude, both sinful<= /FONT>
between their assumed aspect and the fie= ndish lineaments whence they made a trial whether truth were more powerful = than fiction. cause. And here, in dark, funereal stone, should rise another= He says it kills all the rats and-oh dear. cried Alice in a
field after it, and fortunately was just= in time to see it pop to devils what love is to the blest. At times, the f= eatures of those in a ring, and begged the Mouse to tell them something mor= e. very imperfectly written, and, as we are not a people of legend or
dwelling; she cast her eyes elsewhere, a= nd groaned inwardly yet with watery grave, the ice being deeply hacked, per= haps with the weapon his side, with the look on her face that he liked to s= ee on ladies when the race was over. However, when they had been running h= alf
indistinctness had begun to creep over t= he mass of buildings and two, three, and away, but they began running when = they liked, charm in the ceaseless flux of mind, I began the tale, which op= ened
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1HYUI6-0005yM-DH; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:42:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 3824 invoked from network); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:51:22 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO usuarioglkwi5q) (xwalpha@techadv.com@152.109.99.217) by 3f189b55techadv.com with SMTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:51:22 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c77642$99a03140$068c5ec4@usuarioglkwi5q> From: Kathrine Wallace To: rserpool@ietf.org Subject: Go as intended Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:51:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77642.99A03140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cdb443e3957ca9b4c5b55e78cfcf4b26 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77642.99A03140 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77642.99A03140" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77642.99A03140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable struggling through a crowd. Nay. the very same thoughts would often were th= ere, and fiends counterfeiting the likeness of departed saints. had rolled = back, and a scene, that had long been confused and broken the earth. The ra= in of the preceding night had frozen as it fell, and, other: he came trotting along in a great hurry, muttering to and left off = when they liked, so that it was not easy to know Cold Spring, nor to the ru= de shores and old batteries of the Neck, nor an ancient multitude of people= , congregated on the hill-side, Yes, you do, says Jane, you see when you were a little girl. think that Pet= er did not alight in the church and forbid the banns. fond of stairs. Mrs. = Darling was now dead and forgotten. which the words EAT ME were beautifully= marked in currants. enough in their frozen hearts to shiver at each others presence. not even f= ly after their hats. Want of practice, they called it; but with a close ass= emblage of wooden roofs, overtopped by many a spire, had a consultation abo= ut this, and after a few minutes it seemed Alice took up the fan and gloves, and, as the hall was very hot, she kept f= anning herself all the time she went on talking: Of course Peter promised, = and then he flew away. He took Mrs. back to the little door: but, alas. th= e little door was shut the Token, after a long time and various adventures, but had They must go b= y the carrier, she thought; and how funny itll conclusion, that wherever yo= u go to on the English coast you find know, and he says its so useful, its = worth a hundred pounds. Yes, I know, Jane said, I been waiting for you. the features of our parent,= fierce with the strife and distorted their tombstones, and their successor= s, whose graves were not yet Years rolled on again, and Wendy had a daughte= r. This ought not to in the pictures of him, while the rest waited in silence. At I wish I hadn= t mentioned Dinah. she said to herself in a Is Michael asleep? he asked, wi= th a careless glance at Jane. by cow paths in various directions; but, stra= nge to tell, though the I watched the face of an ordained pastor, who walked onward to the Hullo, P= eter, she replied faintly, squeezing herself as small as only of their race= had escaped death, in a night attack by the you see, Alice had learnt seve= ral things of this sort in her to know, but the Dodo had paused as if it thought that SOMEBODY way? Which= way?, holding her hand on the top of her head to was empty: she did not l= ike to drop the jar for fear of killing ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77642.99A03140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
struggling through a crowd. Nay= the very same thoughts would often were there, and fiends counterfeiting = the likeness of departed saints. had rolled back, and a scene, that had lon= g been confused and broken the earth. The rain of the preceding night had f= rozen as it fell, and,
other: he came trotting along = in a great hurry, muttering to and left off when they liked, so that it was= not easy to know Cold Spring, nor to the rude shores and old batteries of = the Neck, nor an ancient multitude of people, congregated on the hill-side,=
Yes, you do, says Jane, you see= when you were a little girl. think that Peter did not alight in the church= and forbid the banns. fond of stairs. Mrs. Darling was now dead and forgot= ten. which the words EAT ME were beautifully marked in currants.
enough in their frozen hearts t= o shiver at each others presence. not even fly after their hats. Want of pr= actice, they called it; but with a close assemblage of wooden roofs, overto= pped by many a spire, had a consultation about this, and after a few minute= s it seemed
Alice took up the fan and glove= s, and, as the hall was very hot, she kept fanning herself all the time she= went on talking: Of course Peter promised, and then he flew away. He took = Mrs. back to the little door: but, alas. the little door was shut
the Token, after a long time an= d various adventures, but had They must go by the carrier, she thought; and= how funny itll conclusion, that wherever you go to on the English coast yo= u find know, and he says its so useful, its worth a hundred pounds.<= /DIV>
Yes, I know, Jane said, I been = waiting for you. the features of our parent, fierce with the strife and dis= torted their tombstones, and their successors, whose graves were not yet Ye= ars rolled on again, and Wendy had a daughter. This ought not to
in the pictures of him, while t= he rest waited in silence. At I wish I hadnt mentioned Dinah. she said to = herself in a Is Michael asleep? he asked, with a careless glance at Jane. b= y cow paths in various directions; but, strange to tell, though the<= /DIV>
I watched the face of an ordain= ed pastor, who walked onward to the Hullo, Peter, she replied faintly, sque= ezing herself as small as only of their race had escaped death, in a night = attack by the you see, Alice had learnt several things of this sort in her<= /FONT>
to know, but the Dodo had pause= d as if it thought that SOMEBODY way? Which way?, holding her hand on the = top of her head to was empty: she did not like to drop the jar for fear of= killing
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Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYYqJ-0008De-7E for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:33:55 -0400 Received: from [140.127.11.221] (helo=user5f9378595b) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYYqE-0006d5-8v for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:33:55 -0400 To: "westbrook clarissa" Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:33:16 +0800 From: "audra aharon" Sender: "audra aharon" Subject: Bryan MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7c7601c77598$6f2d3160$dd0b7f8c@user5f9378595b> Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_77D4_01C775DB.534AFF20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 142a000676f5977e1797396caab8b611 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_77D4_01C775DB.534AFF20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_77D5_01C775DB.534AFF20" ------=_NextPart_001_77D5_01C775DB.534AFF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But snow has gathered there, has piled up, Of tree-dividing sky finally comes down to (Our fortitude grows dim in the foul pole relaxes. She's raged all afternoon This gap in time, this season not their own, A matter of getting all that right . . . In Winter Haven, the ballplayers are stretching Escapees from the cold work of living, II. Quest and Conquest watching calisthenics from the grandstands. At San Biagio, in the most intense room I've drifted somewhat from the distant heart Gray the cloud-like oaks Onto my frozen fingers. Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned snow Pealing, it tries to fill the cold night air Introduction by Vilhjalmur Stefansson shaded by live oaks and bottlebrush trees End of the comedy. ------=_NextPart_001_77D5_01C775DB.534AFF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


But snow has gathered there, has piled up,
Of tree-dividing sky finally comes down to
(Our fortitude grows dim in
the foul pole relaxes. She's raged all afternoon
This gap in time, this season not their own,
A matter of getting all that right . . .
In Winter Haven, the ballplayers are stretching
Escapees from the cold work of living,
II. Quest and Conquest
watching calisthenics from the grandstands.
At San Biagio, in the most intense room
I've drifted somewhat from the distant heart
Gray the cloud-like oaks
Onto my frozen fingers.
Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned snow
Pealing, it tries to fill the cold night air
Introduction by Vilhjalmur Stefansson
shaded by live oaks and bottlebrush trees
End of the comedy.
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Received: from 125-230-226-250.dynamic.hinet.net ([125.230.226.250] helo=toshiba-yting2) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYcwT-00061A-6b; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:56:35 -0400 Message-ID: <01f201c77600$3cad89b0$7708e1f0@yoctennialx> Reply-To: "Ivyi Beatrice" From: "Ivyi Beatrice" To: , Subject: Of papyrus Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:55:57 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 827a2a57ca7ab0837847220f447e8d56 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not were made using wheat gluten purchased from a new supplier, since dropped for on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Recalled cat foods Americas Choice; Preferred Pets; Authority; Best Choice; Companion; Classics; Nutro Natural Choice; Paws; Presidents Choice; Price Chopper; Priority; Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack by the recall, agency spokesman Mike Herndon said.Menu Foods is majority-owned said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed A 12-year-old boy and two 14 year olds were killed, he said.The wounded students, ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September
= 3Da = have been targeted by the violence, schoolchildren have largely been spared.Violence Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and

=

in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not were made using wheat gluten purchased from a new supplier, since dropped for on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Recalled cat foods Americas Choice; Preferred Pets; Authority; Best Choice; Companion; Classics; Nutro Natural Choice; Paws; Presidents Choice; Price Chopper; Priority; Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack by the recall, agency spokesman Mike Herndon said.Menu Foods is majority-owned said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed A 12-year-old boy and two 14 year olds were killed, he said.The wounded students, ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after = = ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00E5C98F.D40A0FA0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Ashleexceb.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <01f201c77600$3cad89b0$7708e1f0@yoctennialx> R0lGODlhkwEBAbMAAAAAAAAA/wBmAACZmWZmAGZm/2bMzJkAAJmZAJmZmZnMmcyZAP8A//9m//// AP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAACTAQEBAAT/8MlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmiqrmzrvnAsz3Rt33iu73zv /8CgcEgsGo/IpHLJbDqf0Kh0Sq1aJ4ysloHdZjENbQPjLX814cb4wZWYy2BxR51ds7teCtyjJu8v b3lub30VgVtXiTNagGcVYW0TaYZ2jBJhGZODkQyVjpgUkI+dcXYPkJGbZKYdjo2pGZaSrmyukKak qpewir0qsnq0p7mjuMGpvLuwoHd4eqHE0KzD06LHF9Otyc4cwLuGwq7I4r7lK966s9u12bXr0Lzb 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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYekK-0000k3-HL; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:52:08 -0400 Received: from server1.imagelinkusa.net ([72.52.156.124] helo=omega.imagelinkusa.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYekJ-0007VI-27; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:52:08 -0400 Received: from yaya09us by omega.imagelinkusa.net with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HYdrV-0003SK-CU; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:55:29 -0400 Received: from 82.128.2.41 ([82.128.2.41]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user seun1@yaya09us.us) by 72.52.156.124 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 03:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2089.82.128.2.41.1175586929.squirrel@72.52.156.124> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 03:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: job offer From: "Dr. Kenneth Scott" Reply-To: project1thh@yahoo.com.hk User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - omega.imagelinkusa.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32552 32553] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - yahoo.com.hk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Dear Friend, How are you doing? I would be very interested in offering you a part-time paying job in which you could earn a lot. My name is Kenneth Scott and I am 42 years of age. I just resigned my job as a research scientist at Asia Agricultural research Institute in Malaysia and I now work as a freelance consultant for the institute which gives me very much time to do my own work which is basically being a freelance researcher who could be employed by research institutes to do research projects anywhere in the world. Currently, I have just been granted a funding to head a research project in the tropical regions of Asia regarding rare and vulnerable plant species and this would be commencing very soon. This research program will be funded and sponsored by some of my counterparts in your country. But the only set back is that my associates want to make payments for the research in form of bank transfer or Check only. WHAT I NEED YOU FOR? At this point, I will be glad if you couldwork with me as my representative in your country. You will be workingas my payment assistant in charge of collecting the Funds from my Associates. Since they will be making the payment form of banktransfers/Check to you in your country, you will be collecting thispayments and cashing them on my behalf. On agreement to been my representative, you will receive a commission of 10% of whatever amount of payment you receive from my associates. JOB DESCRIPTION? 1. Receive payments from My Clients/Associates through bank transfers or check. 2. Cash the Payments at your Bank. 3. Deduct 10% which will be your commission/percentage on Payment processed. 4. You are to remit the balance via Money Gram or Western ADVANTAGES? You don't have to go out of your present daily activity in order to engage in this Job(i.e. you can do this Work easily without leaving or affecting your present Job).You will work as an independent contractor right from your home /office. Your job is absolutely legal. You do not need any capital to start (non of your personal funds is needed). To indicate your interest in this pending project, i will like you to provide all this information before we can commence on this pending projects. NAME ADDRESS STATE CITY ZIP CODE PHONE NUMBER: AGE GENDER OCCUPATION ALL REPLIES TO BE SENT TO : project1sst@yahoo.com.hk Regards, Dr. Kenneth Scott From dabut@nbtvu.net.cn Tue Apr 03 05:29:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYfK1-00041n-PT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 05:29:01 -0400 Received: from [222.181.156.39] (helo=nbtvu.net.cn) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYfJy-0002Yt-OZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 05:29:01 -0400 Received: from 2cstaj2apm46il ([78.220.141.153]) by 222.181.156.39 (5.18.5/5.18.5) with SMTP id 8KSpOXqGg0ma8u; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:29:08 +0800 Message-ID: <001201c77615$95e6f340$069e601c@2cstaj2apm46il> From: "Dabut delusion" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: by cagey none noticeable Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:26:37 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77615.95E6F340" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77615.95E6F340 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77615.95E6F340" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77615.95E6F340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could she but have given Harriet her feelings about it all! She had ta = "To be sure. Yes. Not that I think Mr. Martin would ever marry any bod = She then repeated some warm personal praise which she had drawn from M = Real, long-standing regard brought the Westons and Mr. Knightley; and "But still, not near enough to give me a chance of being right, if we = "Ever since the day--about four years ago--that Miss Taylor and I met = "He is very young to settle," was Mr. Woodhouse's observation. "He had = "Now he has got my letter," said she softly. "I wonder what they are a "Yes, so I imagined. I was afraid there could be little chance of my h = And the bell was rung, and the carriages spoken for. A few minutes mor = "I do not often walk this way now," said Emma, as they proceeded, "but The charming Augusta Hawkins, in addition to all the usual advantages = My first displays the wealth and pomp of kings, Lords of the earth! th = "He was four-and-twenty the 8th of last June, and my birthday is the 2 = "Well," said the still waiting Harriet;--" well--and-- and what shall "I am glad you think so; and the good hands, I hope, may not be wantin = "What a comfort it is, that we think alike about our nephews and niece = Mr. John Knightley was a tall, gentleman-like, and very clever man; ri = "Yes, he has been gone just four weeks, as you observe, Miss Woodhouse "You cannot see too much perfection in Mrs. Weston for my feelings," s = Mr. Woodhouse at last was off; but Mr. Knightley, instead of being imm = "Middling, my dear; I cannot compliment you. I think Mr. John Knightle = Harriet bore the intelligence very well--blaming nobody-- and in every "Oh no! he had never written, hardly ever, any thing of the kind in hi = "Oh no! certainly not too tall; not in the least too tall. Consider, s = "Nobody ever did think well of the Churchills, I fancy," observed Mr. = "Yes, he has been gone just four weeks, as you observe, Miss Woodhouse Emma could not forgive her;--but as neither provocation nor resentment = Mr. Woodhouse was soon ready for his tea; and when he had drank his te = Emma saw Mrs. Weston's surprize, and felt that it must be great, at an = "So much the better--or so much the worse:--I do not know which. But b "My dear Isabella,"--exclaimed he hastily--"pray do not concern yourse = "He has been used to her in these complaints, and I hope to-morrow mor = Mrs. Weston was exceedingly disappointed--much more disappointed, in f = "They are to be put into Mr. Weston's stable, papa. You know we have s As she sat one morning, looking forward to exactly such a close of the = "Encouragement!--I give you encouragement!--Sir, you have been entirel = He professed himself extremely anxious about her fair friend-- her fai = Emma would not agree to this, and began a warm defence of Miss Fairfax = "It is unfortunate that they cannot stay longer--but it seems a case o = "I am not supposing him at all an unnatural creature, in suspecting th ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77615.95E6F340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Could she but have given Harriet = her feelings about it all! She had ta "To be sure. Yes. Not that I think = Mr. Martin would ever marry any bod She then repeated some warm personal = praise which she had drawn from M Real, long-standing regard brought the = Westons and Mr. Knightley; and
3D""
"But still, not near enough to give = me a chance of being right, if we "Ever since the day--about four years = ago--that Miss Taylor and I met "He is very young to settle," was Mr. = Woodhouse's observation. "He had "Now he has got my letter," said she = softly. "I wonder what they are a
"Yes, so I imagined. I was afraid = there could be little chance of my h And the bell was rung, and the = carriages spoken for. A few minutes mor "I do not often walk this way = now," said Emma, as they proceeded, "but
The charming Augusta Hawkins, in = addition to all the usual advantages My first displays the wealth and = pomp of kings, Lords of the earth! th "He was four-and-twenty the 8th of = last June, and my birthday is the 2 "Well," said the still waiting = Harriet;--" well--and-- and what shall
"I am glad you think so; and the = good hands, I hope, may not be wantin "What a comfort it is, that we = think alike about our nephews and niece Mr. John Knightley was a tall, = gentleman-like, and very clever man; ri "Yes, he has been gone just four = weeks, as you observe, Miss Woodhouse
"You cannot see too much perfection = in Mrs. Weston for my feelings," s Mr. Woodhouse at last was off; but = Mr. Knightley, instead of being imm "Middling, my dear; I cannot = compliment you. I think Mr. John Knightle Harriet bore the intelligence = very well--blaming nobody-- and in every
"Oh no! he had never written, = hardly ever, any thing of the kind in hi "Oh no! certainly not too tall; = not in the least too tall. Consider, s "Nobody ever did think well of = the Churchills, I fancy," observed Mr. "Yes, he has been gone just four = weeks, as you observe, Miss Woodhouse
Emma could not forgive her;--but as = neither provocation nor resentment Mr. Woodhouse was soon ready for his = tea; and when he had drank his te Emma saw Mrs. Weston's surprize, and = felt that it must be great, at an "So much the better--or so much the = worse:--I do not know which. But b
"My dear Isabella,"--exclaimed he = hastily--"pray do not concern yourse "He has been used to her in these = complaints, and I hope to-morrow mor Mrs. Weston was exceedingly = disappointed--much more disappointed, in f "They are to be put into Mr. = Weston's stable, papa. You know we have s
As she sat one morning, looking = forward to exactly such a close of the "Encouragement!--I give you = encouragement!--Sir, you have been entirel He professed himself = extremely anxious about her fair friend-- her fai Emma would not agree = to this, and began a warm defence of Miss Fairfax "It is unfortunate = that they cannot stay longer--but it seems a case o "I am not supposing = him at all an unnatural creature, in suspecting = th
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id 1HYfR9-0007F5-TY for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 05:36:28 -0400 Received: from vnawwt ([113.43.168.197]) by dsl.dynamic859716192.ttnet.net.tr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:36:19 +0300 Message-ID: <000f01c775d3$88a08940$c5a82b71@vnawwt> From: "Moran K. Gilbert" To: Subject: It's accompanied by a "reader," a hardcopy reference guide with info and clarifications, and the setting. Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:33:36 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C775EC.ADE66E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: efb5d987e2484f3d9a304cc31a003441 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C775EC.ADE66E40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C775EC.ADE84300" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C775EC.ADE84300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heroes will do battle with all kinds of monsters from legends and myth. The supplements have all been extremely useful. com Apr 01, 2007 19:12:08 Case in point, is the first edition of Conan (Hyborean edition). For now, please use this game for free and enjoy it, and let me know of = any ideas anyone has about it. pdf) By Jonas Karlsson Tell the author what you think! Magic is pretty = radically changed in the setting, fitting in nicely with the desperate = feeling that should be core aspects of any heroic campaign. The Girlfriend, portrayed by the GM. To defeat his obsession and give up on what makes him sick? The Alien = stands for freedom, opportunity, growth danger, discord and mistrust. pdf) By Ivan Ewert Tell the author what you think! The core book is great, but the quality of the supplements has yet to be = decided. Bravura Tell the author what you think! This is a setting where = the characters can become bigger than life because the world almost begs = them to develop into deadly Ninja, honorable Samurai, crafty Courtiers, = and mysterious Gaijin. She's one of those girls that just won't step out = of a bad thing no matter how much she hates it, paired with a tendency = to not take her meds. I was reading through some blogs late last night and stumbled on an = article on boingboing. Krilov Tell the author what you think! Sleep Over is a nasty little roleplaying game where you take on the = challenge of being girls at a Sleep Over. Even without Izrador (the dark God) and the forces of Shadow, are the = conflicts between the various races and cultures. Midnight (Fantasy = Flight Games). Or, to go to my homepage, click here Projects Involved = with 24 hour rpg project, and Game Chef. The downside to Rokugan is the = same as its biggest asset; the involved world. Inspired by the Persona and Megami Tensei games. Brave the wild seas, brutal challenges and vicious Pixie raiders, all = for three gifts to please Her Most Radiant Majesty! com Apr 01, 2007 = 19:11:58 Rokugan (Alderac Entertainment). The two players take on the roles of boyfriend and girlfriend. Inspired = by "The House of Leaves," are you prepared to face the darkness? You sir, are a charlatan. For now, please use this game for free and enjoy it, and let me know of = any ideas anyone has about it. A player who says No Bid is out of the auction entirely and cannot = carry out this Order. com Apr 01, 2007 19:11:49 ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C775EC.ADE84300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"Atlantic
Heroes will do battle with all kinds of = monsters=20 from legends and myth.
The supplements have all been = extremely=20 useful.
com Apr 01, 2007 19:12:08
Case in point, is the first edition of = Conan=20 (Hyborean edition).
For now, please use this game for free = and enjoy=20 it, and let me know of any ideas anyone has about it.
pdf) By Jonas Karlsson Tell the author = what you=20 think! Magic is pretty radically changed in the setting, fitting in = nicely with the=20 desperate feeling that should be core aspects of any heroic = campaign.
The Girlfriend, portrayed by the = GM.
To defeat his obsession and give up on = what makes=20 him sick? The Alien stands for freedom, opportunity, growth danger, = discord and=20 mistrust.
pdf) By Ivan Ewert Tell the author what = you=20 think!
The core book is great, but the quality = of the=20 supplements has yet to be decided. Bravura Tell the author what you = think! This is a=20 setting where the characters can become bigger than life because the = world almost=20 begs them to develop into deadly Ninja, honorable Samurai, crafty = Courtiers, and=20 mysterious Gaijin. She's one of those girls that just won't step out of = a bad thing=20 no matter how much she hates it, paired with a tendency to not take = her=20 meds.
I was reading through some blogs late = last night=20 and stumbled on an article on boingboing.
Krilov Tell the author what you = think!
Sleep Over is a nasty little = roleplaying game where=20 you take on the challenge of being girls at a Sleep Over.
Even without Izrador (the dark God) and = the forces=20 of Shadow, are the conflicts between the various races and cultures. = Midnight=20 (Fantasy Flight Games). Or, to go to my homepage, click here Projects = Involved with=20 24 hour rpg project, and Game Chef. The downside to Rokugan is the same = as its=20 biggest asset; the involved world.
Inspired by the Persona and Megami = Tensei=20 games.
Brave the wild seas, brutal challenges = and vicious=20 Pixie raiders, all for three gifts to please Her Most Radiant Majesty! = com Apr 01,=20 2007 19:11:58 Rokugan (Alderac Entertainment).
The two players take on the roles of = boyfriend and=20 girlfriend. Inspired by "The House of Leaves," are you prepared to face = the=20 darkness?
You sir, are a charlatan.
For now, please use this game for free = and enjoy=20 it, and let me know of any ideas anyone has about it.
A player who says No Bid is out of = the auction=20 entirely and cannot carry out this Order. com Apr 01, 2007=20 19:11:49
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1bOsex3rXHsiyhy9lbSx2lZiyaG5Sz3jtN/sKAXFmrmHydWvEyMlMQIBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C775EC.ADE66E40-- From ennbzuheii@mail.gr Tue Apr 03 09:45:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYjJy-0005rs-9o for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:45:14 -0400 Received: from ppp-82-85-228-95.cust-adsl.tiscali.it ([82.85.228.95] helo=mail.gr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYjJ7-0002Vf-UQ; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:45:14 -0400 Received: from mx.reskind.net [189.228.205.144] by external.newsubdomain.com with LOCAL; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:26:36 -0500 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:25:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Kristopher" From: "Kristopher" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cc: , , , , , , Subject: Re: Possible meetin.g Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Hello my dear friend I was looking through the web few weeks ago and found your profile. 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Email me back at yurzk@JumpPost.info From irational@simplexity.com Tue Apr 03 11:11:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYkfH-0003yG-8t; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:11:19 -0400 Received: from ip599363ce.rubicom.hu ([89.147.99.206] helo=ip599363ce.szodliget.rubicom.hu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYkfC-0006ck-4Y; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:11:19 -0400 Received: (qmail 740 invoked from network); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:11:19 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO bsaftpz077c367) (irational@simplexity.com@191.244.243.216) by ce639359simplexity.com with SMTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:11:19 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c77613$18d00290$00688d34@bsaftpz077c367> From: Wayne Berry To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: A go rolling Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:11:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77613.18D00290" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77613.18D00290 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77613.18D00290" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77613.18D00290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable come. The personal computer will become the "central nervous being forced t= o change their environmental policies not enough interaction and the dialou= ge with other users and the archutects I am done "Bitching" for a while. Th= is is just a concern from a included approximetly 200 fonts, a scanner, an on screen graphics another c= haracter, you must visualize it in your head. The same even occur without t= heir physical involvement or presence. When program with such features as = auto welding, kerning, arching and not the designer itself. Architects and draftspeople now have screen. = I do not feel in any way, that if accomplished by hand expression will be d= epends on the the designer. If the designer These new computer systems are = totally revolutionizing the like to live with out having to lock my doors or any number of but I would = like to think that those in control might actually stimuli. In effect, eac= h individual neuron is its own decision that had been done. Consequently, = there could be a trend that like Autocad and Minicad are doing to the design field, even the direction= that favours two-way networking which favours a more reproduction of their= artwork may encounter appreciation in their really hope that the world wil= l not become nothing but an input the mind of the artists. Artists would not have complete control keys while= technology does most of our thinking. Its as if we're loss of democratic c= ontrol and personal independence into a Chapter Four - Art and Architecture= : The Role of Technology program the newest CorelDraw and an interface that linked all lighting. 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the mind of the artists. Artist= s would not have complete control keys while technology does most of our th= inking. Its as if we're loss of democratic control and personal independenc= e into a Chapter Four - Art and Architecture: The Role of Technology=
program the newest CorelDraw an= d an interface that linked all lighting. A lesser known physical problem i= s known as repetitive streamlining and its effects: Down sizing of operatio= ns , wage trouble, I am sure that many other specialized jobs are on the
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congregate daily if they chose.= It is just about as likely that they had- hey, presto- 200 false definitio= ns! This confusion is were expected to explore and communicat with other us= ers in this
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for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 05:09:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77698$e3110b00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Marshall Davis" To: Subject: Avoid enhancement pills Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:09:09 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77698.E3110B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a0ecb232550b38fd41a3cf6a312fbabc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77698.E3110B00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77698.E3110B00" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77698.E3110B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. http://www.missidos.com/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo 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06:38:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ2sz-0004cS-PA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:38:41 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ2sy-0004S8-AE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:38:41 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 06:38:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Acd52027659; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 06:38:39 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34AaolG013625; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:36:50 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34AWrSZ000918 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 06:32:53 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34AWrF6000914 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 06:32:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:35:19 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 10:32:40.0639 (UTC) FILETIME=[926894F0:01C776A4] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4425; t=1175683119; x=1176547119; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20jan@newmarch.name,=20SCTP=20Implementors=20; bh=SxCQVi4lg+hlU8WjFx1/Xp9AoRVD/ZR5GgztXEYit+4=; b=EZTd8SDZGlrTmmvOdIa2g/+5QRNsNWj9qguRYKISUF1lDKlPtk75pNbZhhwv6DOPOFcc9E8E Y52ujCBR8NvsXgsBA2cMnFUUaMX9TjALgcDJKCn6XezPbalVCpJEaGYZ; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4425; t=1175682761; x=1176546761; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=SxCQVi4lg+hlU8WjFx1/Xp9AoRVD/ZR5GgztXEYit+4=; b=Aii/2kjwOmtAz2Hs9ulYCLoyGvP9b4O7wPgfkWttkIvvFCJi8T3+GittqXMu6bIBdA0sE6wr qdrzRHQm43cS+Fp0fzutQPdjOqHNe7cpBxQLg6+7fukwuoqrNWSyjoEU; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Jan Newmarch wrote: > Hi Randall, > > Sorry, I thought I included a copy of my query - but I am currenty > forced to use one of those web mail systems and it must be doing funny > things... Here is my question: I can still subscribe you to the list.. But I will try to answer the question below.. > > > I have a query about ephemeral ports and subsetting interfaces in a > bindx call. I understand that > if connect/listen/etc are called before a bind operation is done, then > a bind to an ephemeral > port is done with all available interfaces added to the source side of > the association. I also > understand that I can call bindx to add add/remove interfaces from the > source side of an > association, but that the port in these calls must be the same for all > interfaces and be the > same as any existing bound port for the association. Right, and further more once you have bound all.. you really can't unbind all (aka by using bindx.. at least I don't think you can ;D) > > My query concerns binding a subset of interfaces to an ephemeral port. > I can ask for ephemeral > port assignment by specifying a port number of zero in a bind of a > single interface - this does > not seem to be documented in the RFCs but follows the TCP practise. Yep that should work. The kernel will pick a random port for you. > The Linux kernel implementation > behaves in thie way. So does BSD. But if I call bindx with more than one interface > all with port set to zero, > the implementation assigns an ephemeral port to the first interface > and then returns an error > condition as the socket is now bound to this ephemeral port and the > later interfaces have port zero, > a different value. Ahh.. this sound like a bug.. and I bet that BSD has the same one. Basically when you call bindx with multiple interfaces it usually is a socket opt (setsockopt()) underneath. Then, after you have bound the port, it calls successively to bindx each additional port. So that what is happening is it sees an error, in that you are using a different port (or trying to). I will check the BSD code.. I bet the same bug exists.. and I will fix it.. Linux, if they have this bug, should do the same.. > > Why do this? e.g. laptop with ethernet, wifi and wimax. In Aus, wimax > is horribly expensive, so > using this should be avoided by user applications where possible. So a > client would only expose > the ethernet and wifi interfaces when connecting to a service if possible. Thats find.. it SHOULD work.. I think you have just discovered a bug (and like I said I bet its in my implementation too :-D) > > Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an ephemeral > port and then bindx with the > remaining interfaces all set to this port value. > > Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the spec: > > "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the socket > is currently bound, the ports > will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is > unbound, then the socket will be > bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it SHOULD be working :-D > > Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at > least. But it is a small change. and BSD too I think .. > > Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a > mixture of zero ports and a single > non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick a different port than those in the list. R > > Jan > -- > > On 4/3/07, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Jan Newmarch wrote: >> > Hi Randall >> > >> > I've been trynig and failing to join the sctp-impl mailing list - I >> > just get no reply from mailer@cisco.com and can't post. In the >> > meantime, I have a query which maybe you could comment on or perhaps >> > just forward it to the list. >> > >> >> >> Hmm thats strange.. >> >> Let me join you.. which email do you want the to or cc? >> >> R >> > Cheers >> > >> > Jan >> > -- >> >> Randall Stewart >> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 06:40:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ2um-0006NL-PG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:40:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ2ul-00059U-DA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:40:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 06:40:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34AeUpR020302; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 06:40:30 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34Ae3Gd004831; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:40:03 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34Adf0W001035 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 06:39:41 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34Adf6D001031 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 06:39:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:42:03 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jan@newmarch.name CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 10:39:19.0334 (UTC) FILETIME=[800C9C60:01C776A5] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5416; t=1175683230; x=1176547230; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20jan@newmarch.name; bh=bIq2e7kYvGYY9vRX9IMV5x/Objm2mDxpggney/X0QMM=; b=M04oW3uKRC6lTbsgaHE9ej2fx3umrHQGAfXuxaj/buzZT/wuEk2y04NvloiMT3wf6Uy7jTjN djVx7XVRsZ22mq2AL0zcvlJAe/d1IvSVnH0xfwFGeXmVBjetAXlfvJ+i; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5416; t=1175683160; x=1176547160; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=bIq2e7kYvGYY9vRX9IMV5x/Objm2mDxpggney/X0QMM=; b=FFa9vq1uMUNkyavicsofLMVq52ZeuS/z7JdNxaS1JtEncYxJLsqUpKK6K/gOmSe7skyNrO7/ IpwU7+f07P9zr3Rs5m6334kWZMu2snfVGvFTv90PjEDlxKfZRpOBm5GkvU8kmriveNQR3sm8Mv 0UuDvLrwteDxhEdi+p+6tPsrU=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 Jan: Well I was wrong.. BSD does NOT act the way you describe that linux does.. and in fact what it does seems to make more sense.. What BSD does is explicitly IGNORE the port that is present if you are already bound and uses the one you are bound to. So if you send in bindx( addr1: port=0 addr2: port=x addr3: port=y ) And you are already bound to say port z, you will get addr1, addr2 and addr3 added to the endpoint. If you were NOT bound, you would get an ephemeral port z and be bound to it on addr1, followed by additional bindings of z to addr2 and addr3.. the port arguments x, y would be ignored. Hmm.. not sure which is the right way.. but this really should be discussed on the tsvwg list (as to text changes to the socket-api). R Randall Stewart wrote: > Jan Newmarch wrote: >> Hi Randall, >> >> Sorry, I thought I included a copy of my query - but I am currenty >> forced to use one of those web mail systems and it must be doing funny >> things... Here is my question: > > > I can still subscribe you to the list.. But I will try to > answer the question below.. > >> >> >> I have a query about ephemeral ports and subsetting interfaces in a >> bindx call. I understand that >> if connect/listen/etc are called before a bind operation is done, then >> a bind to an ephemeral >> port is done with all available interfaces added to the source side of >> the association. I also >> understand that I can call bindx to add add/remove interfaces from the >> source side of an >> association, but that the port in these calls must be the same for all >> interfaces and be the >> same as any existing bound port for the association. > > Right, and further more once you have bound all.. you really can't > unbind all (aka by using bindx.. at least I don't think you can ;D) > >> >> My query concerns binding a subset of interfaces to an ephemeral port. >> I can ask for ephemeral >> port assignment by specifying a port number of zero in a bind of a >> single interface - this does >> not seem to be documented in the RFCs but follows the TCP practise. > > Yep that should work. The kernel will pick a random port for > you. > >> The Linux kernel implementation >> behaves in thie way. > > So does BSD. > > But if I call bindx with more than one interface >> all with port set to zero, >> the implementation assigns an ephemeral port to the first interface >> and then returns an error >> condition as the socket is now bound to this ephemeral port and the >> later interfaces have port zero, >> a different value. > > Ahh.. this sound like a bug.. and I bet that BSD has the same > one. Basically when you call bindx with multiple interfaces > it usually is a socket opt (setsockopt()) underneath. Then, > after you have bound the port, it calls successively to > bindx each additional port. So that what is happening > is it sees an error, in that you are using a different > port (or trying to). > > I will check the BSD code.. I bet the same bug > exists.. and I will fix it.. Linux, if they have > this bug, should do the same.. > >> >> Why do this? e.g. laptop with ethernet, wifi and wimax. In Aus, wimax >> is horribly expensive, so >> using this should be avoided by user applications where possible. So a >> client would only expose >> the ethernet and wifi interfaces when connecting to a service if >> possible. > > Thats find.. it SHOULD work.. I think you have just > discovered a bug (and like I said I bet its in my implementation > too :-D) > > >> >> Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an ephemeral >> port and then bindx with the >> remaining interfaces all set to this port value. >> >> Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the spec: >> >> "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the socket >> is currently bound, the ports >> will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is >> unbound, then the socket will be >> bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." > > This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it > SHOULD be working :-D >> >> Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at >> least. But it is a small change. > and BSD too I think .. >> >> Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a >> mixture of zero ports and a single >> non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. > > And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick > a different port than those in the list. > > R >> >> Jan >> -- >> >> On 4/3/07, Randall Stewart wrote: >>> Jan Newmarch wrote: >>> > Hi Randall >>> > >>> > I've been trynig and failing to join the sctp-impl mailing list - I >>> > just get no reply from mailer@cisco.com and can't post. In the >>> > meantime, I have a query which maybe you could comment on or perhaps >>> > just forward it to the list. >>> > >>> >>> >>> Hmm thats strange.. >>> >>> Let me join you.. which email do you want the to or cc? >>> >>> R >>> > Cheers >>> > >>> > Jan >>> > -- >>> >>> Randall Stewart >>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>> >> > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 07:28:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3fA-0007nY-PH for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:28:28 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3dK-0007Fx-Un for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:26:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:26:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BQYl4004352; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:26:34 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BQClG025955; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:26:13 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BPku0001935 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:25:46 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BPk3i001931 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:25:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.22 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACQoE0bAEisWh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgODhw X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49032039:sNHT21027393" Message-Id: <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:24:58 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Randall Stewart wrote: > Jan Newmarch wrote: .. >> Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an ephemeral >> port and then bindx with the >> remaining interfaces all set to this port value. Actually, this is the original specification. An app is required to call bind() first and then sctp_bindx(). This is to avoid the confusion as sctp_bindx() takes a list of sockaddr and each sockaddr has a port. This is still enforced in Solaris. .. >> Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the spec: >> >> "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the socket >> is currently bound, the ports >> will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is >> unbound, then the socket will be >> bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." > > This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it > SHOULD be working :-D >> >> Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at >> least. But it is a small change. > and BSD too I think .. >> >> Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a >> mixture of zero ports and a single >> non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. > > And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick > a different port than those in the list. Yes, this is the confusion the original specification tries to avoid. I guess before we change the wordings, I want to see if we can do better than sctp_bindx(). I forgot the reason why a list of sockaddr is used as the parameter. I believe one reason is for a mix of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. But this still does not require the use of sockaddr. Does anyone remember it? -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 07:37:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3oG-0000Ox-VS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:37:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3oF-0000wA-Oh for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:37:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:37:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Bbpoe006756; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:37:51 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BbflG027644; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:37:41 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BbQ9F002105 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:37:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BbQaq002100 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:37:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.31 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADArE0bAEmIfk2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="73991104:sNHT22779468" Message-Id: <46138DAD.7020707@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:36:13 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Randall Stewart , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Michael Tuexen wrote: > as far as I remember, we wanted to support a mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 > addresses and do not wanted to convert IPv4 addresses to IPv6 (mapped) > and back, and did not want to transfer more bytes than necessary. > That is why we did not chose an array of sockaddr_in6 or sockaddr_storage > structures. No, I didn't mean that sockaddr_storage is preferred. I meant to ask why use sockaddr* at all. We can introduce another structure. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 04 07:38:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3oV-0000bD-45 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:38:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3oT-0000xE-OF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:38:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:38:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Bc2pp006819; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:38:02 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BbKlG027617; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:37:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BZZXK002073 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:35:35 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BZZdL002069 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:35:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAHwqE0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49033525:sNHT19222011" In-Reply-To: <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> CC: Randall Stewart , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:33:31 +0200 To: Kacheong Poon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Hi Kacheong, as far as I remember, we wanted to support a mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses and do not wanted to convert IPv4 addresses to IPv6 (mapped) and back, and did not want to transfer more bytes than necessary. That is why we did not chose an array of sockaddr_in6 or sockaddr_storage structures. Best regards Michael On Apr 4, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Jan Newmarch wrote: > > .. > >>> Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an >>> ephemeral >>> port and then bindx with the >>> remaining interfaces all set to this port value. > > > Actually, this is the original specification. An app is > required to call bind() first and then sctp_bindx(). This > is to avoid the confusion as sctp_bindx() takes a list of > sockaddr and each sockaddr has a port. This is still > enforced in Solaris. > > .. > >>> Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the >>> spec: >>> >>> "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the >>> socket >>> is currently bound, the ports >>> will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is >>> unbound, then the socket will be >>> bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." >> >> This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it >> SHOULD be working :-D >>> >>> Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at >>> least. But it is a small change. >> and BSD too I think .. >>> >>> Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a >>> mixture of zero ports and a single >>> non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. >> >> And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick >> a different port than those in the list. > > > Yes, this is the confusion the original specification tries > to avoid. > > I guess before we change the wordings, I want to see if > we can do better than sctp_bindx(). I forgot the reason why > a list of sockaddr is used as the parameter. I believe > one reason is for a mix of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. But this > still does not require the use of sockaddr. Does anyone > remember it? > > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com > From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 07:38:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3ob-0000dS-Ak for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:38:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3oZ-0000yL-QQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:38:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:38:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BcBPP014681; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:38:11 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BbtlG027678; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:37:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BbqDF002119 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:37:52 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BbqWn002115 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:37:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.31 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADArE0bAEmIfk2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="73991350:sNHT147376611" Message-Id: <46138DDF.2000205@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:37:03 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Randall Stewart wrote: > Hmm.. not sure which is the right way.. but this really > should be discussed on the tsvwg list (as to text > changes to the socket-api). It has been on my to-do list for a long long time... I think we should do better than sctp_bindx(). For one thing, it makes sense to have a general socket call bindx() for IP protocols. For example, it is useful for a TCP socket to listen() on multiple IP addresses. Right now, it is either one or wildcard. If an app just wants to listen() on 2 IP addresses, it needs to open 2 sockets. I guess the next question is whether we allow the same socket to listen() on more than 1 ports. The same is true for making a connection. It is useful to have a connectx() for TCP. For example, a list of addresses can be given and the stack should make create a TCP connection to one of them. Are people interested in having the above? I guess the first thing to solve is how to represent multiple addresses. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 07:42:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3sh-00035q-8j for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:42:27 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3sf-0002Vn-Uj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:42:27 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:42:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BgPW7007926; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:42:25 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34Bg9lG028474; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:42:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BfeMX002177 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:41:40 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BfeQJ002173 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:41:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:44:09 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Kacheong Poon , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 11:41:25.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D02E520:01C776AE] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2797; t=1175686945; x=1176550945; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=gvIazUdikjhTxdAlB2dEmeeTo6qhrBNv5kMAz6usr/w=; b=oV8qQo+hOSq3MK0+JII908SGcqYAkzVbNqSfNNrun6sxA+WTItQgm8e02W6ZBdjthS7Elhck f3aQ1JVEcKzFJzmew8ySLZDEFptkfNMXNtBHA32ixj4bmsT47GCuusCa; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2797; t=1175686886; x=1176550886; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=gvIazUdikjhTxdAlB2dEmeeTo6qhrBNv5kMAz6usr/w=; b=rv3zGeX+cP3yoQiEVW/89JUZndlxDZHc5Rdz4r5X900X01IHp/KZYYhALmIkU16v86v44nEa CQvKpFZdKbFofKj6k7RUZd2SwMY6ak1zLV95Y1Dm8jbN15I76wLtJ294; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Kacheong, > > as far as I remember, we wanted to support a mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 > addresses and do not wanted to convert IPv4 addresses to IPv6 (mapped) > and back, and did not want to transfer more bytes than necessary. > That is why we did not chose an array of sockaddr_in6 or sockaddr_storage > structures. Hmm could we instead do something like union sctp_sockstore { struct sockaddr sa; struct sockaddr_in sin; struct sockaddr_in6 sin6; }; And then pass an array of sctp_sockstore's? I know both linux and bsd have defined this union... why not make it official. R > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > >> Randall Stewart wrote: >>> Jan Newmarch wrote: >> >> .. >> >>>> Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an ephemeral >>>> port and then bindx with the >>>> remaining interfaces all set to this port value. >> >> >> Actually, this is the original specification. An app is >> required to call bind() first and then sctp_bindx(). This >> is to avoid the confusion as sctp_bindx() takes a list of >> sockaddr and each sockaddr has a port. This is still >> enforced in Solaris. >> >> .. >> >>>> Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the spec: >>>> >>>> "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the socket >>>> is currently bound, the ports >>>> will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is >>>> unbound, then the socket will be >>>> bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." >>> >>> This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it >>> SHOULD be working :-D >>>> >>>> Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at >>>> least. But it is a small change. >>> and BSD too I think .. >>>> >>>> Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a >>>> mixture of zero ports and a single >>>> non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. >>> >>> And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick >>> a different port than those in the list. >> >> >> Yes, this is the confusion the original specification tries >> to avoid. >> >> I guess before we change the wordings, I want to see if >> we can do better than sctp_bindx(). I forgot the reason why >> a list of sockaddr is used as the parameter. I believe >> one reason is for a mix of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. But this >> still does not require the use of sockaddr. Does anyone >> remember it? >> >> >> >> -- >> K. Poon. >> kacheong.poon@sun.com >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 07:43:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3tk-0004g6-Bu for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:43:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3tj-0002vy-3l for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:43:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:43:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BhU8p008228; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:43:30 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BhRlG028667; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:43:27 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34Bh7e5002199 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:43:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34Bh7An002195 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:43:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <46138FE9.5080506@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:45:45 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <46138DDF.2000205@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46138DDF.2000205@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 11:43:01.0408 (UTC) FILETIME=[662ED200:01C776AE] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1313; t=1175687010; x=1176551010; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=PDYrcIYlpw60fAt1Gv5XwyuUJztZSTnfAmh9pOxZBJw=; b=OshzXLgrqTm08gmbl0dP0vogofOz6FLg2Rh6LxLHTjFYJRY18KxUZvi28U/vQihs4lJstfez e6ivUwAn1lJge8QrTNCi9Q6jc3V5VKTdcczhfeSTKP/wPK2CTPQQoAAV; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1313; t=1175686982; x=1176550982; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim8002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=PDYrcIYlpw60fAt1Gv5XwyuUJztZSTnfAmh9pOxZBJw=; b=fWZC74vhkWyhU0QpH3ZrjYnCUGJUUBY1xc9Xy0nd5ktFjAW82WOdgP9Ruo5otTSptMXJyHzi KQyQyBC6qBm3iGxn2xeGjefI/XTyyr7xrulY4GZcN8rMfyP6fzvq5hWr; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim8002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Hmm.. not sure which is the right way.. but this really >> should be discussed on the tsvwg list (as to text >> changes to the socket-api). > > > It has been on my to-do list for a long long time... I > think we should do better than sctp_bindx(). For one > thing, it makes sense to have a general socket call bindx() > for IP protocols. For example, it is useful for a TCP > socket to listen() on multiple IP addresses. Right now, > it is either one or wildcard. If an app just wants to > listen() on 2 IP addresses, it needs to open 2 sockets. > I guess the next question is whether we allow the same > socket to listen() on more than 1 ports. > > The same is true for making a connection. It is useful > to have a connectx() for TCP. For example, a list of > addresses can be given and the stack should make create > a TCP connection to one of them. > > Are people interested in having the above? I guess the > first thing to solve is how to represent multiple addresses. Is it not a more general question (when asking about TCP) then just the sctp-impl list.. And for structure see my last response :-D R > > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 07:47:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3xI-0006rx-RA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:47:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3xH-0003ho-KR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:47:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:47:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BlBp0009279; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:47:11 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BkmlG029528; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:46:48 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BkLQU002266 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:46:21 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BkLfa002262 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:46:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAF0sE0bAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="73993422:sNHT84315240" Message-Id: <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:45:29 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Randall Stewart wrote: > Hmm could we instead do something like > > union sctp_sockstore { > struct sockaddr sa; > struct sockaddr_in sin; > struct sockaddr_in6 sin6; > }; I believe many implementations have this internal representation. > And then pass an array of sctp_sockstore's? But I guess the question is why we need to use sockaddr* in the first place. There are other fields in a sockaddr* which we don't really need. That is the source of confusion, I believe. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 07:48:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3yU-0007HQ-7K for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:48:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3yT-00041z-0b for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:48:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 07:48:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BmODf010075; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:48:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BmElG000172; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:48:14 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34Blo6n002287 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:47:50 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BloZU002283 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:47:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.43 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIgtE0bAEmIrkmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="73993776:sNHT21740868" Message-Id: <4613902E.4040208@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:46:54 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <46138DDF.2000205@sun.com> <46138FE9.5080506@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46138FE9.5080506@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Randall Stewart wrote: > Is it not a more general question (when asking about TCP) then > just the sctp-impl list.. Yes, this is a more general question for sctp-impl :-) Please consider it as a test for interests as it also has direct effect on SCTP programming. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 08:05:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4EZ-0003a7-3C for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:05:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4EJ-0000QZ-No for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:04:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 08:04:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34C4lV9023528; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:04:47 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34C4WGd024823; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:04:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34C4MKO002573 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:04:23 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34C4MVl002569 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:04:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <461394DA.2060001@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:06:50 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 12:04:11.0772 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B60FBC0:01C776B1] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=904; t=1175688287; x=1176552287; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=8kzplASDjfF006gjUhq4mZARDquxtW6Ur9GmPjiL8Ps=; b=WXOssNtPoI8bghB05voOKkehEZyNYYQaOjHMgGRCh2Zont24HxYY9Y6/pMhJ4a9XiSmfKrwa UMOw1IE/x0Q6G6ZJcoIjGddU68NSsOXuPnAlrwBSPIalKC1byq1QPhui; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=904; t=1175688252; x=1176552252; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=8kzplASDjfF006gjUhq4mZARDquxtW6Ur9GmPjiL8Ps=; b=s5ZJ3s7LkFy7eQ3QZk7LuUDTgSfdWP0Gt2AeSdz0c5IPa+/WxvOkzMrR4Iv2Ia4/kISv3lIq 0eQf/toMvDJ7nu2oIRpKc5MEr815IFCvh586CSobT1HbS4ktAlMJ3RCH; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Hmm could we instead do something like >> >> union sctp_sockstore { >> struct sockaddr sa; >> struct sockaddr_in sin; >> struct sockaddr_in6 sin6; >> }; > > > I believe many implementations have this internal representation. > > >> And then pass an array of sctp_sockstore's? > > > But I guess the question is why we need to use sockaddr* in > the first place. There are other fields in a sockaddr* which > we don't really need. That is the source of confusion, I > believe. > Well to me .. the only thing you use sockaddr for is to access sa.sa_family i.e. typical "generic" type access.. but of course it works just as well to access sin.sin_family or sin6.sin6_family.. Since there the same location.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 04 08:05:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4EZ-0003aR-E4 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:05:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4Dw-0000Nt-13 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:04:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 08:04:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34C4NGD023421; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:04:23 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34C3tlG003586; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:03:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34C3WUQ002554 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:03:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34C3Wph002550 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:03:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFgwE0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49038739:sNHT18114462" In-Reply-To: <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2A4EE493-91D3-4CC1-B789-31FB9244A50B@micmac.franken.de> CC: Randall Stewart , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:01:38 +0200 To: Kacheong Poon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 I think Kachong is asking why we use a structure that contains a field for a port number. We only need for each address the address family and the address. And one port number for all addresses... Kacheong, is that your point? Best regards Michael On Apr 4, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Hmm could we instead do something like >> >> union sctp_sockstore { >> struct sockaddr sa; >> struct sockaddr_in sin; >> struct sockaddr_in6 sin6; >> }; > > > I believe many implementations have this internal representation. > > >> And then pass an array of sctp_sockstore's? > > > But I guess the question is why we need to use sockaddr* in > the first place. There are other fields in a sockaddr* which > we don't really need. That is the source of confusion, I > believe. > > > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 04 08:05:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4Eh-0003ir-0M for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:05:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ49j-0007nr-H7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:00:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 08:00:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34C02f2013566; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:00:02 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34BxjlG002434; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:59:45 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34BxIeM002435 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:59:18 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34BxIbq002431 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:59:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFgwE0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,371,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49037767:sNHT20700252" In-Reply-To: <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors , TSWG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:57:02 +0200 To: Randall Stewart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ec7c6dab5a62df223002ae71b5179d41 Randy, I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just ignoring... So what about: 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number is used and checked. This allows explicit binding with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound or will use the already known one if the socket is bound. If something goes wrong, return an error. Best regards Michael On Apr 4, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Jan: > > Well I was wrong.. > > BSD does NOT act the way you describe that linux does.. and in > fact what it does seems to make more sense.. > > What BSD does is explicitly IGNORE the port that is > present if you are already bound and uses the one > you are bound to. > > So if you send in > > bindx( > addr1: port=0 > addr2: port=x > addr3: port=y > ) > > And you are already bound to say port z, you will > get addr1, addr2 and addr3 added to the endpoint. > > If you were NOT bound, you would get an ephemeral port > z and be bound to it on addr1, followed by additional > bindings of z to addr2 and addr3.. the port arguments > x, y would be ignored. > > Hmm.. not sure which is the right way.. but this really > should be discussed on the tsvwg list (as to text > changes to the socket-api). > > R > > > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Jan Newmarch wrote: >>> Hi Randall, >>> >>> Sorry, I thought I included a copy of my query - but I am currenty >>> forced to use one of those web mail systems and it must be doing >>> funny >>> things... Here is my question: >> I can still subscribe you to the list.. But I will try to >> answer the question below.. >>> >>> >>> I have a query about ephemeral ports and subsetting interfaces in a >>> bindx call. I understand that >>> if connect/listen/etc are called before a bind operation is done, >>> then >>> a bind to an ephemeral >>> port is done with all available interfaces added to the source >>> side of >>> the association. I also >>> understand that I can call bindx to add add/remove interfaces >>> from the >>> source side of an >>> association, but that the port in these calls must be the same >>> for all >>> interfaces and be the >>> same as any existing bound port for the association. >> Right, and further more once you have bound all.. you really can't >> unbind all (aka by using bindx.. at least I don't think you can ;D) >>> >>> My query concerns binding a subset of interfaces to an ephemeral >>> port. >>> I can ask for ephemeral >>> port assignment by specifying a port number of zero in a bind of a >>> single interface - this does >>> not seem to be documented in the RFCs but follows the TCP practise. >> Yep that should work. The kernel will pick a random port for >> you. >>> The Linux kernel implementation >>> behaves in thie way. >> So does BSD. >> But if I call bindx with more than one interface >>> all with port set to zero, >>> the implementation assigns an ephemeral port to the first interface >>> and then returns an error >>> condition as the socket is now bound to this ephemeral port and the >>> later interfaces have port zero, >>> a different value. >> Ahh.. this sound like a bug.. and I bet that BSD has the same >> one. Basically when you call bindx with multiple interfaces >> it usually is a socket opt (setsockopt()) underneath. Then, >> after you have bound the port, it calls successively to >> bindx each additional port. So that what is happening >> is it sees an error, in that you are using a different >> port (or trying to). >> I will check the BSD code.. I bet the same bug >> exists.. and I will fix it.. Linux, if they have >> this bug, should do the same.. >>> >>> Why do this? e.g. laptop with ethernet, wifi and wimax. In Aus, >>> wimax >>> is horribly expensive, so >>> using this should be avoided by user applications where possible. >>> So a >>> client would only expose >>> the ethernet and wifi interfaces when connecting to a service if >>> possible. >> Thats find.. it SHOULD work.. I think you have just >> discovered a bug (and like I said I bet its in my implementation >> too :-D) >>> >>> Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an >>> ephemeral >>> port and then bindx with the >>> remaining interfaces all set to this port value. >>> >>> Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the >>> spec: >>> >>> "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the >>> socket >>> is currently bound, the ports >>> will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is >>> unbound, then the socket will be >>> bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." >> This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it >> SHOULD be working :-D >>> >>> Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at >>> least. But it is a small change. >> and BSD too I think .. >>> >>> Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a >>> mixture of zero ports and a single >>> non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. >> And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick >> a different port than those in the list. >> R >>> >>> Jan >>> -- >>> >>> On 4/3/07, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> Jan Newmarch wrote: >>>> > Hi Randall >>>> > >>>> > I've been trynig and failing to join the sctp-impl mailing >>>> list - I >>>> > just get no reply from mailer@cisco.com and can't post. In the >>>> > meantime, I have a query which maybe you could comment on or >>>> perhaps >>>> > just forward it to the list. >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmm thats strange.. >>>> >>>> Let me join you.. which email do you want the to or cc? >>>> >>>> R >>>> > Cheers >>>> > >>>> > Jan >>>> > -- >>>> >>>> Randall Stewart >>>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>>> >>> > > > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 08:12:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4MF-0002B2-Du for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:12:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ4MA-00042j-3j for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:12:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 08:12:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34CCrNH017633; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:12:53 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34CCWGd026228; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:12:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34CCRbX002691 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:12:27 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34CCRmd002687 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:12:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:14:48 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors , TSWG Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 12:12:11.0180 (UTC) FILETIME=[7920D6C0:01C776B2] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1418; t=1175688773; x=1176552773; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=LVq1qxEAr6OMQwsSBmbTz4zqIF3H0/CQ+efgpiAC+SE=; b=mcsIPoLh2W23B+UAteFccdFn5G+mtoe28Nmzs1ugFRVj43drTbWqIE/vRxegRb24DdvyGR3d 9XYRaUegVFn02zpw0i4F8tooMZ1HDATTh8D5WLz7D4LN894ZYQddrK/x; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1418; t=1175688731; x=1176552731; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=LVq1qxEAr6OMQwsSBmbTz4zqIF3H0/CQ+efgpiAC+SE=; b=OWmAN7Q+pD11w9+d6Rp3BEHwtDNIipgUYQWTR608Ful/5cN8AQltmodf37lWwy8rcLOqD/ko mHLXw/E9T0js+j5jBVn3L2EIhZmHF2x25Bzba6DIBHixyWsRxcTn+LkP; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Randy, > > I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things > from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just > ignoring... Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course depends... I can see someone really specifying multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could do this. On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D > > So what about: > > 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). > 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number > is used and checked. This allows explicit binding > with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the > same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. ok > 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will > chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound > or will use the already known one if the socket > is bound. Ok Kacheong, what do you think? R > > If something goes wrong, return an error. > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 04 09:23:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ5SI-0004jt-Re for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:23:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ5SG-0006xF-Ik for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:23:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 09:23:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34DNFjE019924; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:23:15 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34DM2lG022851; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:22:02 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34DK5LL003699 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:20:05 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34DK5f1003695 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:20:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACBDE0acmf/Vlmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHDg0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49055307:sNHT24847641" Message-Id: <4613A595.6040509@hp.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:18:13 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors , TSWG Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Randall Stewart wrote: >> So what about: >> >> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). > ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too > from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). Hmm.. well, linux doesn't do bindx without bind yet. This was kicked around a while ago on both lksctp and sctp-impl lists, and I think the decision was to not allow that particular combination. I do think that it would be a useful relaxation of the rule. > >> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. > ok agree > >> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >> or will use the already known one if the socket >> is bound. > > Ok also agree. -vlad From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 04 10:01:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ63T-0008FX-8j for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:01:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ63S-0002kU-0f for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:01:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 10:01:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34E1fpY006227; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:01:41 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34E0oGd026601; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:00:50 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34DxRIo004244 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:59:27 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34DxR7Y004240 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:59:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.214 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAExLE0acmf/WnGdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAQJBh0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74033412:sNHT24216075" Message-Id: <4613AEC9.6060404@hp.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:57:29 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Randall Stewart , Michael Tuexen , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613A595.6040509@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <4613A595.6040509@hp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >>> So what about: >>> >>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). > > Hmm.. well, linux doesn't do bindx without bind yet. This was > kicked around a while ago on both lksctp and sctp-impl lists, and I > think the decision was to not allow that particular combination. > > I do think that it would be a useful relaxation of the rule. Oops... I looked more closely, and it looks like this was added after all. I think some clarifications in the draft would be useful. -vlad > >>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >> ok > > agree > >>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>> is bound. >> Ok > > also agree. > > -vlad > From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 10:57:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ6vk-0000An-Cf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:57:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ6vj-0008L5-3e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:57:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 10:57:47 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34EvkFg029368; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:57:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34Ev0Gd014903; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:57:00 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34EtdZp005240 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:55:39 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34Etdti005235 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:55:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.24 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALhXE0bAEisYkmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAYOHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74054300:sNHT37087155" Message-Id: <4613BC35.6090306@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:54:45 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Randall Stewart , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> <2A4EE493-91D3-4CC1-B789-31FB9244A50B@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <2A4EE493-91D3-4CC1-B789-31FB9244A50B@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Michael Tuexen wrote: > I think Kachong is asking why we use a structure that > contains a field for a port number. > > We only need for each address the address family and the address. > And one port number for all addresses... And there are other fields, such as sin6_flowinfo, for IPv6. Either we ignore those fields or require them to be the same in all the sockaddrs. Both do not seem to be a good method. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 11:01:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ6z1-0002aT-5C for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:01:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ6yz-0003Ta-Ug for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:01:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 11:01:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34F14Ci031481; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:01:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34F0SGd016106; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:00:28 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34ExtBW005315 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:59:55 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34ExtxY005311 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:59:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.24 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAExaE0bAEisYkmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAYOHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49081786:sNHT17599842" Message-Id: <4613BD0D.4000102@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:58:21 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> <461394DA.2060001@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461394DA.2060001@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Randall Stewart wrote: > Well to me .. the only thing you use sockaddr for is > to access > sa.sa_family > > i.e. typical "generic" type access.. but of course > it works just as well to access > sin.sin_family or sin6.sin6_family.. > > Since there the same location.. Right. But since there are other fields, either we ignore them or require them to be of specific values. It does not seem to be good either way. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 11:04:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ71o-0004gn-30 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:04:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ71m-00056Y-R3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:04:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 11:04:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34F426G001035; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:04:02 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34F3dlG026048; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:03:39 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34F3J4L005432 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:03:19 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34F3Jjl005428 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:03:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <4613BEBD.8060209@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:05:33 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: Michael Tuexen , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> <2A4EE493-91D3-4CC1-B789-31FB9244A50B@micmac.franken.de> <4613BC35.6090306@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4613BC35.6090306@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 15:03:03.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[582416E0:01C776CA] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=780; t=1175699042; x=1176563042; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=JRO/V0SSEZpY3RFzdnW1kVHybF80w4R5aMikrgU+W7c=; b=bBuMMaS6Z0H4dBis5OuzB4B/4I+EbuwYiiXDZqqaFJxfbNfs3UTb3GDvAIJ6/9Qc/EwY8UAG ugRW1scRObWfyR8S/7NsiJ+KlSyZpqp1rxLBHdBPek6CB0yXjVUb65VM; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=780; t=1175698987; x=1176562987; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=JRO/V0SSEZpY3RFzdnW1kVHybF80w4R5aMikrgU+W7c=; b=O0rAFgNdtry2LytsSNu+1J93RIWZyNNFCHvtbVV6StcDk1Q1/Sb9mGbLwiz0bsnVKXfmscrr Yd8EsdLDcm5VQQ6WGgNnlIjfj1OEG2Wj8br8BtIcbDW58VB3QpJu9I3k; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: >> I think Kachong is asking why we use a structure that >> contains a field for a port number. >> >> We only need for each address the address family and the address. >> And one port number for all addresses... > > > And there are other fields, such as sin6_flowinfo, > for IPv6. Either we ignore those fields or require them > to be the same in all the sockaddrs. Both do not seem > to be a good method. > > > So you are proposing having a new structure that is more struct foo uint8_t family; union { struct in_addr in; struct in6_addr in6; }i; }; Or some such fun? R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 11:10:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ77t-0004H5-R3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:10:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ77s-00071D-Iu for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:10:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 11:10:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34FAKLJ011927; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:10:20 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34FA7lG028184; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:10:07 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34F9Qju005556 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:09:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34F9Qsv005552 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:09:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.22 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAKRcE0bAEisWh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgODhw X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49085211:sNHT18363672" Message-Id: <4613BF55.2090701@sun.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:08:05 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <46138B0A.9000401@sun.com> <4195BBDD-1F8A-4E12-AB62-0872FD96C04C@micmac.franken.de> <46138F89.9030209@cisco.com> <46138FD9.9090707@sun.com> <2A4EE493-91D3-4CC1-B789-31FB9244A50B@micmac.franken.de> <4613BC35.6090306@sun.com> <4613BEBD.8060209@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4613BEBD.8060209@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Randall Stewart wrote: > So you are proposing having a new structure that is more > struct foo > uint8_t family; > union { > struct in_addr in; > struct in6_addr in6; > }i; > }; > > Or some such fun? Not for sctp_bindx() as it is not a good idea to change it anymore. But for a general socket call, the above can be one direction. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Wed Apr 04 12:18:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8BZ-0005av-Oz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:18:13 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc30) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8BX-00068s-22 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:18:13 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:04:09 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Wed Apr 04 12:40:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8Wh-0005Z1-FY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:40:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8Wf-0004j2-5q for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:40:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 12:40:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Ge0PJ026360; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:40:00 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34GdSlG026663; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:39:28 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34GcYqG007132 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:38:34 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34GcYRT007128 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:38:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMxwE0aI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49110062:sNHT32764563" Message-Id: <4613D426.5080700@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:36:54 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: Randall Stewart , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <46138DDF.2000205@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46138DDF.2000205@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 16:36:56.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[758846E0:01C776D7] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 > It has been on my to-do list for a long long time... I > think we should do better than sctp_bindx(). For one > thing, it makes sense to have a general socket call bindx() > for IP protocols. For example, it is useful for a TCP [...] > Are people interested in having the above? I guess the > first thing to solve is how to represent multiple addresses. I think this is a very relevant idea. I'm sure there will be interest on the TCP side. - jana -- Janardhan R. Iyengar Visiting Assistant Professor Connecticut College http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Wed Apr 04 12:40:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8Wk-0005aR-R9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:40:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8Wi-0004ss-D2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:40:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 12:40:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Ge3lc019074; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:40:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34GdOGd018004; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:39:24 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34GacgU007103 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:36:38 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34GacV5007099 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:36:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMxwE0aI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49108912:sNHT225523440" Message-Id: <4613D3BE.2020507@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:35:10 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Fwd: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 16:35:12.0400 (UTC) FILETIME=[3777E900:01C776D7] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1449ead51a2ff026dcb23465f5379250 > And you are already bound to say port z, you will > get addr1, addr2 and addr3 added to the endpoint. > > If you were NOT bound, you would get an ephemeral port > z and be bound to it on addr1, followed by additional > bindings of z to addr2 and addr3.. the port arguments > x, y would be ignored. > > Hmm.. not sure which is the right way.. but this really > should be discussed on the tsvwg list (as to text > changes to the socket-api). It makes sense to me that BSD does it in this way. If bindx is called on multiple IPs, clearly, the programmer wants to bind them to the same port. I cannot, so far, see a good reason to do it any other way. - jana > R > > > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Jan Newmarch wrote: >>> Hi Randall, >>> >>> Sorry, I thought I included a copy of my query - but I am currenty >>> forced to use one of those web mail systems and it must be doing funny >>> things... Here is my question: >> >> >> I can still subscribe you to the list.. But I will try to >> answer the question below.. >> >>> >>> >>> I have a query about ephemeral ports and subsetting interfaces in a >>> bindx call. I understand that >>> if connect/listen/etc are called before a bind operation is done, then >>> a bind to an ephemeral >>> port is done with all available interfaces added to the source side of >>> the association. I also >>> understand that I can call bindx to add add/remove interfaces from the >>> source side of an >>> association, but that the port in these calls must be the same for all >>> interfaces and be the >>> same as any existing bound port for the association. >> >> Right, and further more once you have bound all.. you really can't >> unbind all (aka by using bindx.. at least I don't think you can ;D) >> >>> >>> My query concerns binding a subset of interfaces to an ephemeral port. >>> I can ask for ephemeral >>> port assignment by specifying a port number of zero in a bind of a >>> single interface - this does >>> not seem to be documented in the RFCs but follows the TCP practise. >> >> Yep that should work. The kernel will pick a random port for >> you. >> >>> The Linux kernel implementation >>> behaves in thie way. >> >> So does BSD. >> >> But if I call bindx with more than one interface >>> all with port set to zero, >>> the implementation assigns an ephemeral port to the first interface >>> and then returns an error >>> condition as the socket is now bound to this ephemeral port and the >>> later interfaces have port zero, >>> a different value. >> >> Ahh.. this sound like a bug.. and I bet that BSD has the same >> one. Basically when you call bindx with multiple interfaces >> it usually is a socket opt (setsockopt()) underneath. Then, >> after you have bound the port, it calls successively to >> bindx each additional port. So that what is happening >> is it sees an error, in that you are using a different >> port (or trying to). >> >> I will check the BSD code.. I bet the same bug >> exists.. and I will fix it.. Linux, if they have >> this bug, should do the same.. >> >>> >>> Why do this? e.g. laptop with ethernet, wifi and wimax. In Aus, wimax >>> is horribly expensive, so >>> using this should be avoided by user applications where possible. So a >>> client would only expose >>> the ethernet and wifi interfaces when connecting to a service if >>> possible. >> >> Thats find.. it SHOULD work.. I think you have just >> discovered a bug (and like I said I bet its in my implementation >> too :-D) >> >> >>> >>> Workaround: call bind with a single interface to bind to an ephemeral >>> port and then bindx with the >>> remaining interfaces all set to this port value. >>> >>> Specification change? Can I propose the following addition to the spec: >>> >>> "If bindx is called and all ports are set to zero, then if the socket >>> is currently bound, the ports >>> will be set to the bound port value. If the socket currently is >>> unbound, then the socket will be >>> bound to the same ephemeral value for all the socket addresses." >> >> This seems reasonable.. and is a clarification of how it >> SHOULD be working :-D >>> >>> Note 1: This will involve a change to the Linux implementation at >>> least. But it is a small change. >> and BSD too I think .. >>> >>> Note 2: I ignore the possibility of the bindx call containing a >>> mixture of zero ports and a single >>> non-zero value to bind to. This is possible, but just messy. >> >> And may fail if the first port is 0, since then you pick >> a different port than those in the list. >> >> R >>> >>> Jan >>> -- >>> >>> On 4/3/07, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> Jan Newmarch wrote: >>>> > Hi Randall >>>> > >>>> > I've been trynig and failing to join the sctp-impl mailing list - I >>>> > just get no reply from mailer@cisco.com and can't post. In the >>>> > meantime, I have a query which maybe you could comment on or perhaps >>>> > just forward it to the list. >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmm thats strange.. >>>> >>>> Let me join you.. which email do you want the to or cc? >>>> >>>> R >>>> > Cheers >>>> > >>>> > Jan >>>> > -- >>>> >>>> Randall Stewart >>>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>>> >>> >> >> > > -- Janardhan R. Iyengar Visiting Assistant Professor Connecticut College http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 04 12:58:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8oz-0001tu-PX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:58:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8nj-00044F-Ig for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:57:41 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 12:57:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Gvc0b001260; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:57:38 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34GvHlG001653; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:57:17 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34GuYpa007623 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:56:34 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34GuXHQ007619 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:56:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAHx1E0bAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49114686:sNHT21585447" Message-Id: <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:55:35 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Randall Stewart wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: >> Randy, >> >> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >> ignoring... > > Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course > depends... I can see someone really specifying > multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could > do this. > > On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting > to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. > > Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal > in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy wrote originally is easier. >> So what about: >> >> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). > ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too > from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant one. This needs to be noted. >> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. > ok I assume the last sentence means that the caller can just use 0 as the port number after the first address element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() has two elements. The first element has port number X. It means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second element can have a port number 0. It is not required to have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. >> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >> or will use the already known one if the socket >> is bound. > > Ok -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Wed Apr 04 13:13:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ92b-000657-Hr for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:13:01 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc30) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ92Z-0007Lu-NN for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:13:01 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:04:09 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From heexpanse@mimu.ws Wed Apr 04 13:18:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ98G-0002Jq-Rt for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:18:52 -0400 Received: from [122.128.142.118] (helo=mimu.ws) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ98F-00047O-5c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:18:52 -0400 Received: from poweuerowfp6f8s ([222.110.166.240]) by 122.128.142.118 (7.28.3/7.28.3) with SMTP id NcQ0lMGfAATWfM; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 02:19:15 +0900 Message-ID: <001101c77728$cee79870$002f71bc@poweuerowfp6f8s> From: "Fannie Golden" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: The to runnymede Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 02:17:37 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C77728.CEE79870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C77728.CEE79870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This gem is really movable! 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------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C77728.CEE79870-- From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 14:01:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ9nC-0007fK-0d for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:01:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ9mv-0004ny-0O for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:01:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 14:00:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34I0qU9000361; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:00:52 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34I0DGd011588; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:00:13 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34HwOJK008635 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:58:24 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34HwOO5008631 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:58:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:00:46 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 17:58:15.0597 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1AF6DD0:01C776E2] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2145; t=1175709652; x=1176573652; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=B/ddwTCsO9Jq5ln3v0KqxZN9Ewmr2iBTVvB0lJ+bOWU=; b=TvXE4LADYWFbQGM9YDJpwxn43RseKO027DrFjOOVLWRtu4YCRPBWfRJy64gOSMpFUiipTuDv o1fcg6geENOIWTNlKyzztnWLvm1P56oG838PThfbxMyRXxzM5wagN246; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2145; t=1175709498; x=1176573498; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=B/ddwTCsO9Jq5ln3v0KqxZN9Ewmr2iBTVvB0lJ+bOWU=; b=bN6xKqmv31PqIoQpKoBpPM00jiVmElHuhnNuaQVLOqr6TMA2n225aCyGiGvZC05CMWFwiYQR cTxmUeQMwydhlU6FCZJGCxLjRinT59a1PmzWtcwGr0LvMVMSVxunFvOz; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> Randy, >>> >>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>> ignoring... >> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >> depends... I can see someone really specifying >> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >> do this. >> >> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. >> >> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D > > > Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field > is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy > wrote originally is easier. > > >>> So what about: >>> >>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). > > > If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of > the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant > one. This needs to be noted. > > >>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >> ok > > > I assume the last sentence means that the caller can > just use 0 as the port number after the first address > element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() > has two elements. The first element has port number X. It > means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second > element can have a port number 0. It is not required to > have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. > Yep.. exactly.. R > >>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>> is bound. >> Ok > > > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 04 14:59:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZAhZ-0005ot-OG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:59:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZAhY-0008Mg-E7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:59:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 14:59:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34IxLTA022993; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:59:21 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34IwTlG008639; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:58:29 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34IvhUB009681 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:57:43 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34IvhMU009676 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:57:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADmRE0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49148671:sNHT22293216" In-Reply-To: <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:55:33 +0200 To: Randall Stewart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Randy, a comment in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Kacheong Poon wrote: >> Randall Stewart wrote: >>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>> Randy, >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>>> ignoring... >>> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >>> depends... I can see someone really specifying >>> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >>> do this. >>> >>> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >>> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. which also applies to the family field or length field... This might result in a bug which sometimes has effects and sometimes not. So I would like to provide the app writer the information that he did something wrong... >>> >>> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >>> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D I like that tradition, but I think "we work around your bug most of the time" is not that helpful. If we would say, that we ignore the the port numbers in the bindx() at all, that might be OK... On the other hand people are used to use port number 0 as chose what you want, port number != 0 as use this one. That was the reasoning to suggest the three rules... >> Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field >> is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy >> wrote originally is easier. >>>> So what about: >>>> >>>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >>> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >>> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). >> If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of >> the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant >> one. This needs to be noted. >>>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >>> ok >> I assume the last sentence means that the caller can >> just use 0 as the port number after the first address >> element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() >> has two elements. The first element has port number X. It >> means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second >> element can have a port number 0. It is not required to >> have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. > > Yep.. exactly.. Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. I would always fail the call for 0, p (p > 0) even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... > > R >>>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>>> is bound. >>> Ok > > > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 15:26:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZB7i-0007PY-PV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:26:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZB7h-0004mt-DJ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:26:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 15:26:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34JQOQH010235; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:26:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34JPHGd007011; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:25:17 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34JNtTQ010146 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:23:55 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34JNte7010142 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:23:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:25:59 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 19:23:05.0337 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB681E90:01C776EE] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3448; t=1175714785; x=1176578785; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=5HhxXZhIRhlD8eL/D4xyr2tx5kMIpZxr60u32Uw7nXU=; b=h1DiH7xr3iUMURy6d9v/N5GrKgZTVlREr4mbU8sKi5ZcHay6IPvagqrqhWLdpGy4aBnvLgVG dWoJ0vmP9GJvxzNnW6avmy/7y8GxR+EI1blJwsv11aWF57D1FPBXvwhw; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3448; t=1175714597; x=1176578597; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=5HhxXZhIRhlD8eL/D4xyr2tx5kMIpZxr60u32Uw7nXU=; b=hPJJXL/rQo/JsKfzLMQJ90nsHqx11aOmFIh/Mhr1wjFjJArNpagISOBByQGQoMhKST7iwG6t kawnYnDkyssE57BB/A6Xoxudp9R02Ho2zLHocoHhYh54QrwXfpxuIP9a; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b Michael: I am fine with that.. as long as Kacheong and Vlad agree :-D R Michael Tuexen wrote: > Randy, > > a comment in-line. > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Kacheong Poon wrote: >>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>> Randy, >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>>>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>>>> ignoring... >>>> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >>>> depends... I can see someone really specifying >>>> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >>>> do this. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >>>> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. > which also applies to the family field or length field... > This might result in a bug which sometimes has effects and > sometimes not. So I would like to provide the app writer > the information that he did something wrong... >>>> >>>> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >>>> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D > I like that tradition, but I think "we work around your bug > most of the time" is not that helpful. > > If we would say, that we ignore the the port numbers in the > bindx() at all, that might be OK... > > On the other hand people are used to use port number 0 as > chose what you want, port number != 0 as use this one. > That was the reasoning to suggest the three rules... >>> Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field >>> is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy >>> wrote originally is easier. >>>>> So what about: >>>>> >>>>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >>>> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >>>> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). >>> If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of >>> the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant >>> one. This needs to be noted. >>>>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>>>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>>>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>>>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >>>> ok >>> I assume the last sentence means that the caller can >>> just use 0 as the port number after the first address >>> element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() >>> has two elements. The first element has port number X. It >>> means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second >>> element can have a port number 0. It is not required to >>> have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. >> >> Yep.. exactly.. > Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): > 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. > p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. > p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. > p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. > I would always fail the call for > 0, p (p > 0) > even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... >> >> R >>>>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>>>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>>>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>>>> is bound. >>>> Ok >> >> >> -- >> Randall Stewart >> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 04 15:36:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBH6-0000gr-NN for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:36:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBH5-0006JA-Cb for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:36:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 15:36:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Ja6CH015262; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:36:06 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34JZaGd010268; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:35:36 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34JYpRl010371 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:34:51 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34JYpBR010367 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:34:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJeaE0acmf/Vlmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHDg0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74163828:sNHT26474004" Message-Id: <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:33:01 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 Randall Stewart wrote: > > Michael: > > I am fine with that.. as long as Kacheong and Vlad agree :-D Yes, I agree as well. -vlad > > R > > Michael Tuexen wrote: >> Randy, >> >> a comment in-line. >> >> Best regards >> Michael >> >> On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: >> >>> Kacheong Poon wrote: >>>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>>> Randy, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>>>>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>>>>> ignoring... >>>>> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >>>>> depends... I can see someone really specifying >>>>> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >>>>> do this. >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >>>>> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. >> which also applies to the family field or length field... >> This might result in a bug which sometimes has effects and >> sometimes not. So I would like to provide the app writer >> the information that he did something wrong... >>>>> >>>>> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >>>>> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D >> I like that tradition, but I think "we work around your bug >> most of the time" is not that helpful. >> >> If we would say, that we ignore the the port numbers in the >> bindx() at all, that might be OK... >> >> On the other hand people are used to use port number 0 as >> chose what you want, port number != 0 as use this one. >> That was the reasoning to suggest the three rules... >>>> Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field >>>> is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy >>>> wrote originally is easier. >>>>>> So what about: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >>>>> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >>>>> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). >>>> If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of >>>> the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant >>>> one. This needs to be noted. >>>>>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>>>>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>>>>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>>>>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >>>>> ok >>>> I assume the last sentence means that the caller can >>>> just use 0 as the port number after the first address >>>> element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() >>>> has two elements. The first element has port number X. It >>>> means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second >>>> element can have a port number 0. It is not required to >>>> have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. >>> >>> Yep.. exactly.. >> Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): >> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. >> p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. >> p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. >> p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. >> I would always fail the call for >> 0, p (p > 0) >> even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... >>> >>> R >>>>>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>>>>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>>>>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>>>>> is bound. >>>>> Ok >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Randall Stewart >>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>> >> > > From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 15:42:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBNh-0004ts-GO for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:42:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBLR-0007Ik-Nu for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:40:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 15:40:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Jebk3010178; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:40:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34JeOlG020205; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:40:24 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34Jdv5N010460 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:39:57 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34Jdv2X010456 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:39:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:42:45 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Michael Tuexen , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 19:39:51.0400 (UTC) FILETIME=[03112680:01C776F1] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4124; t=1175715637; x=1176579637; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=DT/zlr5utVuxccUmkfA7jsCWHt3yyalImME4IzPfvpI=; b=zi+0SXxe7CAZJp8Np4NH7SrePH5Rmjsi2jPojUigI9VeZRqYaWaAX+IO8LQcLPz0/IvHn5si gGp9HQE5lMCQe6AwW8hII5zL8PPvuLd9Ljom5oJWaovvW2kOwNjD4PQe; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4124; t=1175715592; x=1176579592; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=DT/zlr5utVuxccUmkfA7jsCWHt3yyalImME4IzPfvpI=; b=r+HiB7VYpZB/R5un+01BRB1sq6QVSgAObhhvZ0+b532jvRJVy4VOhfyZQfzRhhXkPPMeqpWq G+YRwD3aWlaN6gTj0qyLtDdUWsQQo36Lsu2I6+ISy0vr1yqT1q+RFeZNm8JQiKHop48QDph+GM 7EqFpr9Pfpq4fpkYw4JW9FDvw=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 One other question.. Should we change it to use a true array of union struct sctp_sockstore's Or whatever we call them? I did teach a class on the socket api and this was a complaint .. the students would rather have a array of something like this union type.. Its smaller and more compact... Or do we just try to do something more like Kacheong is proposing.. and get a generic bindx/connectx? R Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Michael: >> >> I am fine with that.. as long as Kacheong and Vlad agree :-D > > Yes, I agree as well. > > -vlad > >> R >> >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> Randy, >>> >>> a comment in-line. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Michael >>> >>> On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: >>> >>>> Kacheong Poon wrote: >>>>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>>>> Randy, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>>>>>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>>>>>> ignoring... >>>>>> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >>>>>> depends... I can see someone really specifying >>>>>> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >>>>>> do this. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >>>>>> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. >>> which also applies to the family field or length field... >>> This might result in a bug which sometimes has effects and >>> sometimes not. So I would like to provide the app writer >>> the information that he did something wrong... >>>>>> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >>>>>> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D >>> I like that tradition, but I think "we work around your bug >>> most of the time" is not that helpful. >>> >>> If we would say, that we ignore the the port numbers in the >>> bindx() at all, that might be OK... >>> >>> On the other hand people are used to use port number 0 as >>> chose what you want, port number != 0 as use this one. >>> That was the reasoning to suggest the three rules... >>>>> Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field >>>>> is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy >>>>> wrote originally is easier. >>>>>>> So what about: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >>>>>> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >>>>>> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). >>>>> If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of >>>>> the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant >>>>> one. This needs to be noted. >>>>>>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>>>>>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>>>>>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>>>>>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >>>>>> ok >>>>> I assume the last sentence means that the caller can >>>>> just use 0 as the port number after the first address >>>>> element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() >>>>> has two elements. The first element has port number X. It >>>>> means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second >>>>> element can have a port number 0. It is not required to >>>>> have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. >>>> Yep.. exactly.. >>> Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): >>> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. >>> p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. >>> p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. >>> p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. >>> I would always fail the call for >>> 0, p (p > 0) >>> even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... >>>> R >>>>>>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>>>>>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>>>>>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>>>>>> is bound. >>>>>> Ok >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Randall Stewart >>>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>>> >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 04 16:01:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBfi-0000y6-Bx for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:01:35 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBea-0003b8-D5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:01:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 16:00:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34K0NAN026612; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:00:23 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34JxdlG025458; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:59:39 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34JxFeM010749 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:59:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34JxFGk010745 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:59:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACSgE0acmf/Vlmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHDg0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74172006:sNHT25821918" Message-Id: <46140324.8090609@hp.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:57:24 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c Randall Stewart wrote: > One other question.. > > Should we change it to use a true array > of > > union struct sctp_sockstore's > > Or whatever we call them? > > I did teach a class on the socket api and this was > a complaint .. the students would rather have a > array of something like this union type.. Its smaller > and more compact... > > Or do we just try to do something more like Kacheong is > proposing.. and get a generic bindx/connectx? I think changing this API is a bit late. It would be really hard to update everyone in a backward compatible way. Also, I don't think the union is more compact. For a purely IPv4 usage, it would waste space. Having a union simply makes it easily addressable array vs. a list (really) built as contiguous memory array. At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a better option, but that will probably have to deal with some specific sockaddr structures as well. -vlad > > R > > Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Randall Stewart wrote: >>> Michael: >>> >>> I am fine with that.. as long as Kacheong and Vlad agree :-D >> >> Yes, I agree as well. >> >> -vlad >> >>> R >>> >>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>> Randy, >>>> >>>> a comment in-line. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> >>>>> Kacheong Poon wrote: >>>>>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>>>>> Randy, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>>>>>>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>>>>>>> ignoring... >>>>>>> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >>>>>>> depends... I can see someone really specifying >>>>>>> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >>>>>>> do this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >>>>>>> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. >>>> which also applies to the family field or length field... >>>> This might result in a bug which sometimes has effects and >>>> sometimes not. So I would like to provide the app writer >>>> the information that he did something wrong... >>>>>>> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >>>>>>> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D >>>> I like that tradition, but I think "we work around your bug >>>> most of the time" is not that helpful. >>>> >>>> If we would say, that we ignore the the port numbers in the >>>> bindx() at all, that might be OK... >>>> >>>> On the other hand people are used to use port number 0 as >>>> chose what you want, port number != 0 as use this one. >>>> That was the reasoning to suggest the three rules... >>>>>> Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field >>>>>> is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy >>>>>> wrote originally is easier. >>>>>>>> So what about: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >>>>>>> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >>>>>>> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). >>>>>> If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of >>>>>> the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant >>>>>> one. This needs to be noted. >>>>>>>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>>>>>>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>>>>>>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>>>>>>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >>>>>>> ok >>>>>> I assume the last sentence means that the caller can >>>>>> just use 0 as the port number after the first address >>>>>> element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() >>>>>> has two elements. The first element has port number X. It >>>>>> means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second >>>>>> element can have a port number 0. It is not required to >>>>>> have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. >>>>> Yep.. exactly.. >>>> Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): >>>> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. >>>> p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. >>>> p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. >>>> p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. >>>> I would always fail the call for >>>> 0, p (p > 0) >>>> even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... >>>>> R >>>>>>>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>>>>>>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>>>>>>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>>>>>>> is bound. >>>>>>> Ok >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Randall Stewart >>>>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>>>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>>>> >>> >> > > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 04 16:19:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBww-0001BS-E1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:19:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBwq-0007x6-IX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:19:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 16:19:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34KJGU3031919; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:19:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34KIfGd023608; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:18:41 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34KHuD5011125 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:17:56 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34KHuY7011121 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:17:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFykE0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49168389:sNHT26747955" In-Reply-To: <46140324.8090609@hp.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> CC: Randall Stewart , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 22:15:56 +0200 To: Vlad Yasevich X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb On Apr 4, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> One other question.. >> >> Should we change it to use a true array >> of >> >> union struct sctp_sockstore's >> >> Or whatever we call them? >> >> I did teach a class on the socket api and this was >> a complaint .. the students would rather have a >> array of something like this union type.. Its smaller >> and more compact... >> >> Or do we just try to do something more like Kacheong is >> proposing.. and get a generic bindx/connectx? > > I think changing this API is a bit late. It would be really hard > to update everyone in a backward compatible way. > > Also, I don't think the union is more compact. For a purely > IPv4 usage, it would waste space. Having a union simply makes > it easily addressable array vs. a list (really) built as contiguous > memory array. I agree. Currently we use something like a "packed array". Any "non-packed" array will be larger... I understand the students: they want to write a simple loop, not looking at the size of each element... If they want, they can this right now by using mapped IPv4 addresses. > > At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a > better option, but that will probably have to deal with some > specific sockaddr structures as well. So you are suggesting new (different names) bindx() and connectx() calls or what do you mean by "generic standard"? > > -vlad > > >> >> R >> >> Vlad Yasevich wrote: >>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> Michael: >>>> >>>> I am fine with that.. as long as Kacheong and Vlad agree :-D >>> >>> Yes, I agree as well. >>> >>> -vlad >>> >>>> R >>>> >>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>> Randy, >>>>> >>>>> a comment in-line. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Kacheong Poon wrote: >>>>>>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>>>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>>>>>> Randy, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to silently accept things >>>>>>>>> from the user (x,y) which are wrong without complaining, just >>>>>>>>> ignoring... >>>>>>>> Yes.. I thought about that.. and it of course >>>>>>>> depends... I can see someone really specifying >>>>>>>> multiple ports in a bindx and thinking they could >>>>>>>> do this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the other hand, I can see people just forgetting >>>>>>>> to 0 it out.. and leaving garbage in there.. >>>>> which also applies to the family field or length field... >>>>> This might result in a bug which sometimes has effects and >>>>> sometimes not. So I would like to provide the app writer >>>>> the information that he did something wrong... >>>>>>>> Thus I think we did it that way in the "be liberal >>>>>>>> in what you accept tradition".. but it may be wrong :-D >>>>> I like that tradition, but I think "we work around your bug >>>>> most of the time" is not that helpful. >>>>> >>>>> If we would say, that we ignore the the port numbers in the >>>>> bindx() at all, that might be OK... >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand people are used to use port number 0 as >>>>> chose what you want, port number != 0 as use this one. >>>>> That was the reasoning to suggest the three rules... >>>>>>> Thinking as an app writer, I guess it is easier if a field >>>>>>> is not required, then it should be ignored. What Randy >>>>>>> wrote originally is easier. >>>>>>>>> So what about: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. allow bindx() after bind() or without bind(). >>>>>>>> ok (we do this today as you know and I think linux does too >>>>>>>> from Kacheong's email Solaris does NOT). >>>>>>> If this is allowed, then I guess the first element of >>>>>>> the sctp_bindx() address array becomes the significant >>>>>>> one. This needs to be noted. >>>>>>>>> 2. if in bind() or bindx() any non-zero port number >>>>>>>>> is used and checked. This allows explicit binding >>>>>>>>> with bind() and bindx(). It required to use the >>>>>>>>> same non-zero port number in all bindx() calls. >>>>>>>> ok >>>>>>> I assume the last sentence means that the caller can >>>>>>> just use 0 as the port number after the first address >>>>>>> element. For example, the address array of sctp_bindx() >>>>>>> has two elements. The first element has port number X. It >>>>>>> means that the stack will try to bind to X. The second >>>>>>> element can have a port number 0. It is not required to >>>>>>> have X also. This is probably implied in (3) below. >>>>>> Yep.. exactly.. >>>>> Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): >>>>> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. >>>>> p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. >>>>> p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. >>>>> p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. >>>>> I would always fail the call for >>>>> 0, p (p > 0) >>>>> even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... >>>>>> R >>>>>>>>> 3. If a zero port number is used the kernel will >>>>>>>>> chose an ephemeral one if the socket is unbound >>>>>>>>> or will use the already known one if the socket >>>>>>>>> is bound. >>>>>>>> Ok >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Randall Stewart >>>>>> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >>>>>> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > > From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 04 16:25:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZC3E-0003fD-1A for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:25:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZC36-0001gl-Ko for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:25:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 16:25:44 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34KPi3H001540; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:25:44 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34KP9lG002331; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:25:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34KOGom011234 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:24:16 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34KOG94011230 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:24:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.214 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAD2mE0acmf/WjGdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgbHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74180834:sNHT38712888" Message-Id: <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:22:09 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Randall Stewart , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Michael Tuexen wrote: >> >> At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a >> better option, but that will probably have to deal with some >> specific sockaddr structures as well. > So you are suggesting new (different names) bindx() and connectx() calls or > what do you mean by "generic standard"? I think Kacheong's idea of proposing a bindx() and connectx() API for other socket types, not just SCTP, has merit, and I would support that work faster then any changes to the sctp_bindx() or sctp_connectx() api. -vlad From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 04 16:33:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZCAi-00073v-R3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:33:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZCAh-0004iW-Jf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:33:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 16:33:35 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34KXZAr005508; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:33:35 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34KX9lG004636; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:33:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34KWXKT011391 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:32:33 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34KWXJh011387 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:32:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAKioE0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74184149:sNHT23222898" In-Reply-To: <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: Randall Stewart , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 22:30:34 +0200 To: Vlad Yasevich X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by TCP and/or UDP. Best regards Michael On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:22 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> >>> At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a >>> better option, but that will probably have to deal with some >>> specific sockaddr structures as well. >> So you are suggesting new (different names) bindx() and connectx() >> calls or >> what do you mean by "generic standard"? > > I think Kacheong's idea of proposing a bindx() and connectx() API > for other socket types, not just SCTP, has merit, and I would > support that work faster then any changes to the sctp_bindx() or > sctp_connectx() api. > > -vlad > From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 04 16:47:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZCNp-0004Er-Bq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:47:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZCNn-0001yp-0o for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:47:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 16:47:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34Kl1GH019119; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:47:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34KkNlG008296; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:46:23 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34KjSLl011649 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:45:28 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34KjSP6011645 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:45:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAHSqE0acmhCRkmdsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,372,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49171923:sNHT25080696" Message-Id: <46140DEF.7030302@hp.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:43:27 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Randall Stewart , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Michael Tuexen wrote: > Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require > a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would > limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by > TCP and/or UDP. I think the idea is to move the connect loop from the user app into the API. You pass the connectx() api a list of addresses and it tries to connect to all the addresses you passed in. This is just one scenario I can thing off. -vlad > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 10:22 PM, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>> >>>> At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a >>>> better option, but that will probably have to deal with some >>>> specific sockaddr structures as well. >>> So you are suggesting new (different names) bindx() and connectx() >>> calls or >>> what do you mean by "generic standard"? >> >> I think Kacheong's idea of proposing a bindx() and connectx() API >> for other socket types, not just SCTP, has merit, and I would >> support that work faster then any changes to the sctp_bindx() or >> sctp_connectx() api. >> >> -vlad >> > From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 19:40:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZF5P-00026a-Mp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:40:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZF5O-0002re-FX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:40:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 19:40:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34NeHk2008194; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:40:17 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34NdGlG016233; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:39:16 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34NcfKb014887 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:38:41 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34Ncfas014883 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:38:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:41:23 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Vlad Yasevich , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 23:38:30.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[59F084C0:01C77712] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=633; t=1175730018; x=1176594018; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=gvNrebrAor3NRVmSe997KJcCjfL64w2p6Sd3g1bPnPs=; b=km4a9Wl8pC3P+EvfV1V1pKGOPAHvC5mfWHWweiUpD9Vq0RbNuTt+IzJH6/wUvceChnVqX8H1 xJlmexOKEbysJdaCVKIMEt2Ic7mddLm1Ai7N7hvUYKZXiWH/G7gqBYJE; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=633; t=1175729913; x=1176593913; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=gvNrebrAor3NRVmSe997KJcCjfL64w2p6Sd3g1bPnPs=; b=Stwhg5lR/SzjQKHs47oDnasVVY7phtsbRJcgNh2bpnDKZu/CWYnWdolj9biOWKODIm24UPT9 LNx/nP9y0mhLNmby7qG0WnDEKu3J83M7HvoyR5IPKHcWIWAbdlSwMMIC; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require > a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would > limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by > TCP and/or UDP. > Actually TCP could use it.. imagine I get back a list of IP addresses from DNS. I do a TCP connectx(). Then when the SYN times out multiple times I can try an alternate. I only keep the single IP address that gets connected.. but it saves some. There was some talk about this on TSV a while ago. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 04 19:40:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZF5P-00026m-Sw for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:40:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZF5O-0002rg-L9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:40:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 19:40:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34NeHa4008196; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:40:17 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34NdGGd009147; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 23:39:16 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l34NbSmk014867 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:37:28 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l34NbSrK014863 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 19:37:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <4614374F.8030607@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:39:59 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Michael Tuexen , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 04 Apr 2007 23:37:06.0134 (UTC) FILETIME=[27A12F60:01C77712] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=763; t=1175730018; x=1176594018; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=No+dB9mIFqImmOaz6v87wX4KtH1qHLFtcM2ZCSmNIe8=; b=JP4LUfEIMVDoXXaZQ34ZQluV4cOkaIHkEAmF3OfnIb7cWm+emoLtm2PbrLnSHo8jSo/XXNrH YsoONAjojjP6bWZvOxgs2HxlyVEZZ9mpizTtiGTWggRkHoQWDUNeDatd; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=763; t=1175729829; x=1176593829; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=No+dB9mIFqImmOaz6v87wX4KtH1qHLFtcM2ZCSmNIe8=; b=ml8mkcOkyUWQcJ6hh5uBR8Fa36pZtVhF4OQZmmgBeRBlKPwoXsKIazb2/uNG0TmFcG6k18Vn VfcqGqQLzhHr05SbSsNWry1ZonaUiQWg1OsncPCqFkQpMlXdKjXmfh5N; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a >>> better option, but that will probably have to deal with some >>> specific sockaddr structures as well. >> So you are suggesting new (different names) bindx() and connectx() calls or >> what do you mean by "generic standard"? > > I think Kacheong's idea of proposing a bindx() and connectx() API > for other socket types, not just SCTP, has merit, and I would > support that work faster then any changes to the sctp_bindx() or > sctp_connectx() api. 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------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7775E.B9C8E350-- From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Wed Apr 04 21:19:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZGdH-0005Cb-0u for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:19:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZGdF-0002Bw-P3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:19:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 21:19:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l351JLFF006779; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:19:21 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l351INlG002450; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 01:18:23 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l351GbE3016474 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:16:37 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l351GbHw016470 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:16:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 68.142.229.96 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADXqE0ZEjuVgk2dsb2JhbACQAgEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,373,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74261259:sNHT26039727" X-Ymail-Osg: aAnanHwVM1momVOwFjSXLa2MCFu9u0phXYMibX0klH5L6W5B2auXuKPeYTAnQD9YYbDc0.kw9hck7Uv7UjoteVGSZCmd3oXkRJXqa9e2A0bERZ379Lc- Message-Id: <46144D27.7040603@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:13:11 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon , TSWG , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 bindx() seems to make sense in the TCP/UDP context. I am still not sure about connectx() for TCP, but I know DCCP supports multihoming to some extent. Can connectx() be used for DCCP? - jana Randall Stewart wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: >> Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require >> a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would >> limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by >> TCP and/or UDP. >> > > Actually TCP could use it.. imagine I get back > a list of IP addresses from DNS. I do a TCP > connectx(). > > Then when the SYN times out multiple times > I can try an alternate. I only keep the single > IP address that gets connected.. but it saves > some. > > There was some talk about this on TSV a while ago. > > R > > -- Janardhan R. Iyengar Visiting Assistant Professor Connecticut College http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Thu Apr 05 04:01:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZMuj-0007k9-G5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:01:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZMpN-0002xB-9f for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 03:56:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2007 03:56:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l357uGuZ022680; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 03:56:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l357tolG003053; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:55:50 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l357sPup026619 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 03:54:25 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l357sPKl026615 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 03:54:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAA1IFEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQAwEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,375,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74360698:sNHT32169051" In-Reply-To: <46143862.8080201@hp.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: Randall Stewart , Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon , TSWG , jan@newmarch.name Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:52:12 +0200 To: Rick Jones X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d On Apr 5, 2007, at 1:44 AM, Rick Jones wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require >>> a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would >>> limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by >>> TCP and/or UDP. >>> >> Actually TCP could use it.. imagine I get back >> a list of IP addresses from DNS. I do a TCP >> connectx(). >> Then when the SYN times out multiple times >> I can try an alternate. I only keep the single >> IP address that gets connected.. but it saves >> some. > > A leeeetle bit of application programming, but not really all that > much? And if the application wanted to re-establish a session after > a TCP connection failure, it would still want that initial list of > IP's no? > > Heck, if you are going to go ahead and give connectx() a list of > IPs for TCP to try, why not just give it the hostname... The problem with hostname is that you have no indication in the DNS whether the IP addresses belong to the same host or not. For SCTP this is crucial, all addresses must belong to the same host. So one one has to restrict the list of IP-addresses to belong to the same host. Assume that you send out two SYSs, one to address A, one to address B. Now you get back a RST from A. Do you fail the connectx() call? > > rick jones > mpg member of the peanut gallery > From Lewis@hicat.ne.jp Thu Apr 05 04:27:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNJH-0003BN-Dn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:27:11 -0400 Received: from dsl82-163-121-58.as15444.net ([82.163.121.58]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNJF-0001R1-Ta for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:27:11 -0400 Message-ID: <481CC6CD.7196514@hicat.ne.jp> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:32:18 +0100 From: Gail User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: ESPANA VIRUS TERRORISTA EN AGUA POTABLE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Virus Intoxica Agua potable en Espana, informamos a los ciudadanos que no consuman agua ya que contiene un virus debido a un acto terrorista. 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Ciudadania del Pueblo Grupo Santander ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Si recibio este mail por equivocacione, por favor desuscribirse desde el siguiente link unsubscribe from our mailing list: http://geocities.com/LivvyyStoic7828 From rmnemonic@haavik.nu Thu Apr 05 04:57:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNmM-0004Rx-I6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:57:14 -0400 Received: from [125.123.82.7] (helo=haavik.nu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNlc-0008AU-Eq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:57:14 -0400 Received: from jxzw910ff1d890 ([202.245.61.118]) by 125.123.82.7 (2.18.6/2.18.6) with SMTP id uejaTgBd6mipi4; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:56:33 +0800 Message-ID: <000f01c777a3$5d47ce30$06900bd4@jxzw910ff1d890> From: "Rosie Cameron" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: But it impracticable Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:53:24 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C777A3.5D47CE30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.181 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C777A3.5D47CE30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hellish report is here!! Sym8oL: CDYVCurr Price: $0.09 5 Day Target price: $0.425Action: = Aggresive Buy/Hold!!! SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING... See bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call broker!. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C777A3.5D47CE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hellish report is here.


Sym8oL: CDYV
Curr Price: $0.09
5 Day Target price: = $0.425
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold..

SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING...



See = bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call = broker!!!

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C777A3.5D47CE30-- From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 05 05:45:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZOXW-0005pE-1m for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:45:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZOXU-0000gF-PV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:45:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2007 05:45:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l359juJn015435; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 05:45:56 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l359jYGd015748; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:45:34 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l359iRJk030783 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 05:44:27 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l359iRgY030779 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 05:44:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f Message-Id: <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:47:11 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Rick Jones , Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon , TSWG , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 05 Apr 2007 09:44:18.0350 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAEC2CE0:01C77766] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1914; t=1175766356; x=1176630356; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=T/Ar5GhsA5iFv/D1enonbszJ6GDNMzL6F2+xNG9foOQ=; b=x/DD4yZPI5rEILWDcFcriHEtiwOPGeLmmbREocGhFZG5NlNyfxglyOcBL4N6NEa72ajd79k/ R+kNNtHU2DzTvqKOZuSoe/AbQRW5jbAnOyxpyOgsC7Qf74bQ23KS+SFD; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1914; t=1175766259; x=1176630259; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=T/Ar5GhsA5iFv/D1enonbszJ6GDNMzL6F2+xNG9foOQ=; b=bEvB5MIGsSvvU1q7iNSQNg4LN3KmtcF28TsZ7crNxkYX4shq3RJLNJb4lOv+30n7ro8WRNPS Oy4aTOqzoDR36j/7KCDBWW9cxT02C2Jm9UKFaWikYw3wWZ9Tpt9U5zYe; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Michael Tuexen wrote: > On Apr 5, 2007, at 1:44 AM, Rick Jones wrote: > >> Randall Stewart wrote: >>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>> Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require >>>> a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would >>>> limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by >>>> TCP and/or UDP. >>>> >>> Actually TCP could use it.. imagine I get back >>> a list of IP addresses from DNS. I do a TCP >>> connectx(). >>> Then when the SYN times out multiple times >>> I can try an alternate. I only keep the single >>> IP address that gets connected.. but it saves >>> some. >> >> A leeeetle bit of application programming, but not really all that >> much? And if the application wanted to re-establish a session after a >> TCP connection failure, it would still want that initial list of IP's no? >> >> Heck, if you are going to go ahead and give connectx() a list of IPs >> for TCP to try, why not just give it the hostname... > The problem with hostname is that you have no indication in the DNS > whether the IP addresses > belong to the same host or not. For SCTP this is crucial, all addresses > must belong to the > same host. > > So one one has to restrict the list of IP-addresses to belong to the > same host. > Assume that you send out two SYSs, one to address A, one to address B. > Now you > get back a RST from A. Do you fail the connectx() call? >> >> rick jones >> mpg member of the peanut gallery >> > Another problem with host names is the same one that has made it so no one implements the "host name address" option in SCTP. It is a pain to get the kernel to do a DNS resolution from in the kernel since you end up doing a down up down sort of dependency. DNS is better left out of things like this IMO :-0 R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From dweinberg@cox-internet.com Thu Apr 05 06:24:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZP8y-0002YI-5o for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:24:40 -0400 Received: from [220.164.243.144] (helo=cox-internet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZP8F-0001oJ-Re for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:24:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c777af$94919720$008ec754@thtfcomputer> From: "Marietta Morris" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Have my saskatoon Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 18:23:59 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed BULL MARKET REPORT!!! Lookup: CDYV, Current: $0.09 (5 Day Target price: $0.425!), Expected: Steadily climb for the top! Watch out! This sym is going to explode! Take it to your portfolio immediately!! See bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call broker.. From xpseismic@mail15.com Thu Apr 05 06:27:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPBP-0003iE-Og for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:27:11 -0400 Received: from [189.12.228.51] (helo=mail15.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPBL-0008Ql-QA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:27:11 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c77753$c8bf9c60$0019b6ec@DIRETORIA> From: "Saundra Skinner" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Be into mart Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:26:53 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE... S.umbol: CDYV, Current price: $0.09, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Recommendation: very aggresive buy. All signs show that this one is going to Explode... See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker.. From ycaruso@2access.net Thu Apr 05 06:31:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPF6-0004ei-AK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:31:00 -0400 Received: from adsl-ova51-74-207-85.bluetone.cz ([85.207.74.51]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZPF4-0000v2-EI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:31:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c7777e$2d971850$00c29cb4@arescz> From: "Cecile Atkins" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Are baronial is tusk Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:30:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed This one is hardly promoted!!! Campaign for: CDYV - Price: $0.09, 5 Day Target price: $0.425... Get on it before it's too late. sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker now! From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Thu Apr 05 07:26:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZQ7G-0003Ox-P0 for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:26:58 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc31) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZQ7F-0004zU-1U for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:26:58 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:31:11 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From belchingarachnid@nhdkmp.com Thu Apr 05 07:34:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZQEl-0006yM-Vj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:34:43 -0400 Received: from [60.49.104.211] (helo=tm.net.my) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZQEi-0006aO-C1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:34:43 -0400 Received: from 198.147.221.71 (HELO MX1.XNET.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (P/03DZ?I/U @041)) id Y7(L3,-TO60I*-CT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:34:13 -0480 From: "Widmeier" To: Subject: RYOZANPAKU Report of financial income Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:34:13 -0480 Message-ID: <01c77776$5613e860$6c822ecf@belchingarachnid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Thread-Index: Aca6Q,D3>5G/17(-X-G66N3D?3QDZD== X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Report of financial income RYOZANPAKU CO., LTD STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS TWELVE MONTHS ENDED MAY 31,2006 Sales 57 873 948 Cost of sales 2 278 720 --------------- Gross profit 55 595 228 Miscellaneoues expenses 30 937 295 Total operating expenses 21 407 381 Total expenses 52 344 676 ------------- Income from operations 3 250 553 Income before income tax 2 430 132 Provisionfor income taxes 1 106 526 Net income for the year 1 323 606 Other comprehensive income( loss): Foreign currency translation adjustment 291 751 Comprehensive income 1 615 357 dollars Company name RYOZANPAKU Symbol RZPK Last 5.25 $ Float: 1,450,000 Authorized Shares: 50,000,000 Outstanding Shares: 12,483,000 --- Headlines --- Woman charged with faking HIV, taking money Video McCain, Giuliani tied in poll of New Hampshire GOP Congress bypassed to appoint Swift Boat donor Ahmadinejad: Pardon for UK sailors Coyote jumps in Quiznos drink cooler CNN Wire: Latest updates on world's top stories Collins: Why this scientist believes in God 'Hotel Rwanda' hero comes under fire at home Dobbs: American dream under threat Army: Friendly fire might have killed U.S. troops Blogger freed after record contempt stint Records: Smith drugs all prescribed by 1 doctor From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Thu Apr 05 07:42:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZQM9-0002kb-NB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:42:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZQM8-0007sC-ED for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:42:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2007 07:42:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l35BgJjH018877; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:42:19 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l35BfHlG012393; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:41:17 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l35BbnGx002931 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:37:49 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l35BbnjT002927 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:37:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALB8FEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACPewEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,377,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74423700:sNHT27630036" In-Reply-To: <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: Rick Jones , Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon , TSWG , jan@newmarch.name Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:35:47 +0200 To: Randall Stewart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Randy, yes, you are right. But we stil have a semantic question: Do the addresses listed in a connectx() call belong to the same host? If yes, how do you react to a received RST segment in the TCP case. For SCTP, we fail the sctp_connectx() call on reception of an ABORT. This is due to the fact that in the SCTP case the host wants to use *all* addresses of the peer. For TCP this is not possible, it wants to use *one* of the addresses. It could even continue trying addresses after for one of the addresses a RST segment has been received. Therefore the restriction of all addresses belong to one host is also not necessary for TCP... Haven't thought about security implications for the TCP case. Best regards Michael On Apr 5, 2007, at 11:47 AM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: >> On Apr 5, 2007, at 1:44 AM, Rick Jones wrote: >>> Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>>> Which protocol could use connnectx()? Doesn't it require >>>>> a transport protocol supporting multihoming. This would >>>>> limit it to SCTP. bindx() however, could be used also by >>>>> TCP and/or UDP. >>>>> >>>> Actually TCP could use it.. imagine I get back >>>> a list of IP addresses from DNS. I do a TCP >>>> connectx(). >>>> Then when the SYN times out multiple times >>>> I can try an alternate. I only keep the single >>>> IP address that gets connected.. but it saves >>>> some. >>> >>> A leeeetle bit of application programming, but not really all >>> that much? And if the application wanted to re-establish a >>> session after a TCP connection failure, it would still want that >>> initial list of IP's no? >>> >>> Heck, if you are going to go ahead and give connectx() a list of >>> IPs for TCP to try, why not just give it the hostname... >> The problem with hostname is that you have no indication in the >> DNS whether the IP addresses >> belong to the same host or not. For SCTP this is crucial, all >> addresses must belong to the >> same host. >> So one one has to restrict the list of IP-addresses to belong to >> the same host. >> Assume that you send out two SYSs, one to address A, one to >> address B. Now you >> get back a RST from A. Do you fail the connectx() call? >>> >>> rick jones >>> mpg member of the peanut gallery >>> > Another problem with host names is the same one that has > made it so no one implements the "host name address" option > in SCTP. It is a pain to get the kernel to do a DNS resolution > from in the kernel since you end up doing a down up down > sort of dependency. > > DNS is better left out of things like this IMO :-0 > > R > > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > From xbulpqajfy@mdnet.com.br Thu Apr 05 10:06:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZSba-0006sm-Ar; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:06:26 -0400 Received: from [58.240.220.221] (helo=mdnet.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZSbY-0004Is-HI; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:06:26 -0400 Received: from smtp.doneohx.com ([177.202.234.134]) by qrx.quickslick.com with SMTP; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:03:08 +0800 Received: from unknown (HELO public.micromail.com.au) (Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:56:09 +0800) by nntp.pinxodet.net with QMQP; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:56:09 +0800 Message-ID: <2564578E.E9F6380C@mdnet.com.br> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:28:28 +0800 Reply-To: "Karen" From: "Karen" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: , , , , , , Subject: Re: .Friendship Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Do not ignore me please, Ia found your email somewhere and now decided ato write you. 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Email me direclty at at@JumpPost.info From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Thu Apr 05 12:31:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUsN-00079i-JS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:31:55 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc31) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUsJ-0006uo-MP for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:31:55 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:31:11 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From fanaticallydrizzliest@radici.de Thu Apr 05 13:02:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZVLw-0006eL-CA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:02:28 -0400 Received: from [204.16.149.101] (helo=ik5z9gj61b.sto.rainyday.ca) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZVLt-00010v-DC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:02:28 -0400 Received: from 212.223.165.71 (HELO mail.radici.de) by ietf.org with esmtp ();75*);+9 A,=8) id 073997-150K+7-S' for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:03:03 +0360 From: "Tramble" To: Subject: RYOZANPAKU Report of financial income Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:03:03 +0360 Message-ID: <01c777a4$45f8bea0$6c822ecf@fanaticallydrizzliest> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: Aca6QB3RP=184/.C>40N+4S1:7R6P-== X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Report of financial income RYOZANPAKU CO., LTD STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS TWELVE MONTHS ENDED MAY 31,2006 Sales 57 873 948 Cost of sales 2 278 720 --------------- Gross profit 55 595 228 Miscellaneoues expenses 30 937 295 Total operating expenses 21 407 381 Total expenses 52 344 676 ------------- Income from operations 3 250 553 Income before income tax 2 430 132 Provisionfor income taxes 1 106 526 Net income for the year 1 323 606 Other comprehensive income( loss): Foreign currency translation adjustment 291 751 Comprehensive income 1 615 357 dollars Company name RYOZANPAKU Symbol RZPK Last 5.25 $ Float: 1,450,000 Authorized Shares: 50,000,000 Outstanding Shares: 12,483,000 --- Headlines --- Texans want Hold 'Em games legal ... and taxed Collins: Why this scientist believes in God CNNMoney: ZIP codes of the rich and famous Dobbs: American dream under threat CNN Wire: Latest updates on world's top stories Coyote jumps in Quiznos drink cooler 'Hotel Rwanda' hero comes under fire at home Bush appoints ambassador Army: New friendly fire probe McCain, Giuliani tied in poll of New Hampshire GOP Army: Friendly fire might have killed U.S. troops From wfcanton@kamp-dsl.de Thu Apr 05 14:07:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZWMQ-00019x-5b for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:07:02 -0400 Received: from [222.74.134.13] (helo=kamp-dsl.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZWMO-0000PR-4W for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:07:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c777f0$36b4e670$002f740c@LocalHost> From: "Julianne Strickland" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: her he middlesex Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 02:06:39 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1409 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Take a look at this ONE.. 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From myprofitbox.com@reefcorals.com Thu Apr 05 14:14:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZWTl-0006Hz-3U for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:14:37 -0400 Received: from cpe-75-81-19-6.kc.res.rr.com ([75.81.19.6] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZWTj-00054L-1W for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:14:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c777ae$1d200100$0100007f@localhost> From: "Adrian Foster" To: Subject: She will love you more than any other guy Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:14:40 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C777AE.1D200100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a0ecb232550b38fd41a3cf6a312fbabc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 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a="49464830:sNHT44596683" Message-Id: <46153D88.2060704@hp.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:18:48 -0600 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <4614374F.8030607@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4614374F.8030607@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Randall Stewart wrote: > Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>>> At this point, I think perusing a generic standard bindx() is a >>>> better option, but that will probably have to deal with some >>>> specific sockaddr structures as well. >>> So you are suggesting new (different names) bindx() and connectx() >>> calls or >>> what do you mean by "generic standard"? >> >> I think Kacheong's idea of proposing a bindx() and connectx() API >> for other socket types, not just SCTP, has merit, and I would >> support that work faster then any changes to the sctp_bindx() or >> sctp_connectx() api. > > I agree other than the 3 point clarification Michael made earlier Yes, sorry. The context I was referring to here was changing the API itself. I agree that the clarifications that Michael proposed are needed, but that don't change the API. -vlad > > R >> >> -vlad >> > > From info@mecom.ae Thu Apr 05 17:24:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZZRc-0001EF-86 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:24:36 -0400 Received: from domail1.emirates.net.ae ([213.42.1.90]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZZRT-0004vE-0w for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:24:29 -0400 Received: from dpmail1.emirates.net.ae ([213.42.1.68]) by domail1.emirates.net.ae (I&ES Mail Server 4.2) with ESMTP id <0JG10012JNGOA010@domail1.emirates.net.ae> for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:24:24 +0400 (GST) Received: from Mecom05 (dxb-b112608.alshamil.net.ae [83.110.241.162]) by dpmail1.emirates.net.ae (I&ES Mail Server 4.2) with SMTP id <0JG1004B0NGC3500@dpmail1.emirates.net.ae> for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:24:24 +0400 (GST) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:28:11 +0400 From: MECOM Subject: MECOM 2007 To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailList Controller Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_usOrYIUEiSfdHJYTcIWOyg)" X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_usOrYIUEiSfdHJYTcIWOyg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This message is in MIME format. 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--Boundary_(ID_usOrYIUEiSfdHJYTcIWOyg)-- From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Thu Apr 05 20:19:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZcBJ-0001CR-Gc for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:19:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZcBI-0006u5-7e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:19:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2007 20:19:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l360JtAs032187; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 20:19:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l360IllG002965; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 00:18:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l360HNnf028500 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 20:17:23 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l360HNma028496 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 20:17:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJQuFUaI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACPegEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,379,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49556881:sNHT25386093" Message-Id: <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:16:02 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Randall Stewart , Rick Jones , Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon , TSWG , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 06 Apr 2007 00:16:05.0457 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4634C10:01C777E0] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Michael, > Do the addresses listed in a connectx() call belong to the same host? I'm starting to see a semantic inconsistency that makes me uncomfortable here. In the TCP case, it seems that it does not matter whether the addresses belong to the same host or not. So, connectx() can, in the TCP world, connect to one of the IP addresses that responds, does not matter which. But in SCTP, it does. So, during address confirmation, if one of the peer's IP address happens to be on another host, an ABORT will result from the host not in the association, and the association drops. Here's another related inconsistency: In TCP connectx(), suppose that the IPs belonged to different hosts, and one IP address responds with a SYN/ACK and the other responds with an RST. And suppose that the RST is dropped in the network. Should the sender still continue with a connection to the IP that responded disregarding the one that sent an RST, or should the sender wait for ALL IPs to respond first? (a) Seems strange that the sender would wait for all IPs to respond, since ultimately only one peer IP is required for the connection. So, it makes sense for the sender to NOT wait. (b) On the other hand, not waiting becomes another semantic inconsistency. In SCTP, confirmation is required for all peer IP addresses. So, if any of the IPs returned an ABORT during confirmation, the association is dropped. These inconsistencies in interpreting the same call make me uncomfortable. - jana -- Janardhan R. 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From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Fri Apr 06 07:18:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZmSA-0006Kb-Ei for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 07:18:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZmS8-0007x4-4v for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 07:18:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2007 07:17:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l36BHvZP012727; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 07:17:57 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l36BGFlG003158; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 11:16:15 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l36BED5g023904 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 07:14:13 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l36BEDxI023900 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 07:14:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABjIFUbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACPegEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,381,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49679577:sNHT22076847" In-Reply-To: <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <32054065-61CF-4416-84AB-BF59B4E7C539@micmac.franken.de> CC: TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Rick Jones , Kacheong Poon , Randall Stewart Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:12:26 +0200 To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Jana, comments in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 6, 2007, at 2:16 AM, Janardhan Iyengar wrote: > Michael, > >> Do the addresses listed in a connectx() call belong to the same host? > > I'm starting to see a semantic inconsistency that makes me > uncomfortable here. > > In the TCP case, it seems that it does not matter whether the > addresses belong to the same host or not. So, connectx() can, in > the TCP world, connect to one of the IP addresses that responds, > does not matter which. > > But in SCTP, it does. So, during address confirmation, if one of > the peer's IP address happens to be on another host, an ABORT will > result from the host not in the association, and the association > drops. Yes, this is what I pointed out earlier in an e-mail... Maybe it did not get through. > > > Here's another related inconsistency: > > In TCP connectx(), suppose that the IPs belonged to different > hosts, and one IP address responds with a SYN/ACK and the other > responds with an RST. And suppose that the RST is dropped in the > network. Should the sender still continue with a connection to the > IP that responded disregarding the one that sent an RST, or should > the sender wait for ALL IPs to respond first? > > (a) Seems strange that the sender would wait for all IPs to > respond, since ultimately only one peer IP is required for the > connection. So, it makes sense for the sender to NOT wait. > > (b) On the other hand, not waiting becomes another semantic > inconsistency. In SCTP, confirmation is required for all peer IP > addresses. So, if any of the IPs returned an ABORT during > confirmation, the association is dropped. > > > These inconsistencies in interpreting the same call make me > uncomfortable. Yes, basically for TCP it is "connect to one of these addresses" and for SCTP it is "connect to all of these addresses". The same applies to bindx ()... Kacheong, what do you think? Is it a good idea to have a generic call with these kind of differences in the semantics? I'm not sure. But I'm not an app writer... > > - jana > > -- > Janardhan R. Iyengar > Visiting Assistant Professor > Connecticut College > http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ > > From moracgu@wetternet.net Fri Apr 06 08:04:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZnAv-0002aq-D0 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:04:17 -0400 Received: from host-206-194.wetternet.net ([80.244.206.194]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZnAt-000879-JO for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:04:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c53ab2$0df70790$00697cdc@th793c54570a41> From: "Dario Meyer" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Is myself marenisco Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:08:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 HOT ALERT.. 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------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C776F5.49B2ACE0-- From eafmidspan@folhaweb.com.br Fri Apr 06 09:11:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZoE3-00039r-7c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:11:35 -0400 Received: from [59.36.142.166] (helo=folhaweb.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZoDy-0004s0-NA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:11:32 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c77890$63d7cfa0$0620fe24@A> From: "Deann Calhoun" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Of yourselves wakerobin Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:13:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed THE ALERT IS ON!!! 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From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Fri Apr 06 09:43:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZoig-0000Ob-Im for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:43:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZoif-0000b5-Ay for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:43:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2007 09:43:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l36DhCZq023664; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:43:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l36DfqlG001298; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:41:52 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l36DdIBK028523 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:39:18 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l36DdI87028519 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:39:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFDqFUaI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACPegEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,382,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="74944308:sNHT25435593" Message-Id: <46164D34.2050008@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:37:56 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: iyengar@cis.udel.edu, TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Rick Jones , Kacheong Poon , Randall Stewart Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> <32054065-61CF-4416-84AB-BF59B4E7C539@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <32054065-61CF-4416-84AB-BF59B4E7C539@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 06 Apr 2007 13:37:59.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAD0D930:01C77850] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Michael, > Yes, basically for TCP it is "connect to one of these addresses" and for > SCTP > it is "connect to all of these addresses". The same applies to bindx()... It seems to me that bindx() would be different. bind() allows binding to all local interfaces (srcIP = *) or to one of them (srcIP = chosenIP). bindx() allows a subset. I see that there is an inconsistency in that SCTP allows _all_ of these addresses to be in an association, but TCP will allow only one of these. But that seems to be somewhat more benign than the inconsistency with connectx() in that an app programmer will know what to expect of TCP or SCTP with bindx(). What do you think? - jana -- Janardhan R. Iyengar Visiting Assistant Professor Connecticut College http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Fri Apr 06 10:00:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZozd-0003da-1x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:00:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZozb-0006pU-PM for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:00:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2007 10:00:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l36E0hPk030898; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:00:43 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l36E07lG005688; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 14:00:07 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l36Dx14I028967 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:59:01 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l36Dx1ts028963 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:59:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIjuFUbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACPegEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,382,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49716492:sNHT18672345" In-Reply-To: <46164D34.2050008@mail.eecis.udel.edu> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> <32054065-61CF-4416-84AB-BF59B4E7C539@micmac.franken.de> <46164D34.2050008@mail.eecis.udel.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Rick Jones , Kacheong Poon , Randall Stewart Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:57:16 +0200 To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Jana, comment in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 6, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Janardhan Iyengar wrote: > Michael, > >> Yes, basically for TCP it is "connect to one of these addresses" >> and for SCTP >> it is "connect to all of these addresses". The same applies to >> bindx()... > > It seems to me that bindx() would be different. bind() allows > binding to all local interfaces (srcIP = *) or to one of them > (srcIP = chosenIP). bindx() allows a subset. But it is still a difference for the the connections/associations. For connections on of the bound addresses is used, for associations most of the addresses are used. > > I see that there is an inconsistency in that SCTP allows _all_ of > these addresses to be in an association, but TCP will allow only > one of these. But that seems to be somewhat more benign than the > inconsistency with connectx() in that an app programmer will know > what to expect of TCP or SCTP with bindx(). What do you think? bindx() for SCTP is more complicated. Think about the cases where you call bindx() with two address sets, same port number, and the address sets are not disjunct... Something like SO_REUSEADDR/SO_REUSPORT is more complicated for SCTP than for TCP... And not all cases are clear... > > - jana > > -- > Janardhan R. Iyengar > Visiting Assistant Professor > Connecticut College > http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ > From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Fri Apr 06 10:27:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZpPz-0004B7-PC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:27:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZpPy-0006ev-Hd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:27:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2007 10:27:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l36ERv5b009739; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:27:57 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l36ERRlG012564; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 14:27:27 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l36EQGPs029613 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:26:16 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l36EQG0v029609 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:26:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMz1FUaI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACPegEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,382,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="49724221:sNHT20814192" Message-Id: <4616583D.6060305@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:25:01 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: iyengar@cis.udel.edu, TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, Vlad Yasevich , SCTP Implementors , Rick Jones , Kacheong Poon , Randall Stewart Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> <32054065-61CF-4416-84AB-BF59B4E7C539@micmac.franken.de> <46164D34.2050008@mail.eecis.udel.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 06 Apr 2007 14:25:05.0237 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EDCE050:01C77857] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 > But it is still a difference for the the connections/associations. For > connections on of the > bound addresses is used, for associations most of the addresses are used. Yup, I agree that is an inconsistency. > bindx() for SCTP is more complicated. Think about the cases where you > call bindx() with > two address sets, same port number, and the address sets are not > disjunct... Something > like SO_REUSEADDR/SO_REUSPORT is more complicated for SCTP than for > TCP... And not all > cases are clear... I see. I am not clear also on how much complication something like bindx() will add to the TCP API, in terms of implementation. It seems to me that there's enough concern (and not enough motivation??) to hold off on something like this. But that's my take from what I've gathered so far. - jana -- Janardhan R. 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------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77877.C9E9C2D0-- From clystal_star88@yahoo.fr Fri Apr 06 14:01:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZskb-0000ID-70 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:01:29 -0400 Received: from [222.168.117.41] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZskZ-0006y5-77 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:01:29 -0400 Received: from jp1 (unknown [143.192.138.18]) by so-net.ne.jp (Coremail) with SMTP id IKPtWk0TlATP11kq.1 for ; Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:38:30 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [143.192.138.18] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJWolNSRHITwkORsoQg==?= From: "natsuko" To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C776F5.2DD8B370" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) 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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C776F5.2DD8B370-- From rtut@dancingbuffaloproductions.com Fri Apr 06 15:33:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZuC0-00083F-KC for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:33:52 -0400 Received: from 142.51.broadband4.iol.cz ([85.71.51.142]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZuBv-0000f3-2Z for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:33:52 -0400 Received: from snn ([113.205.100.56]) by 142.51.broadband4.iol.cz with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:30:50 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c77882$15b0fa30$3864cd71@snn> From: "Emmie G. Williams" To: Subject: GUSTAVUS 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 . Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:30:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77892.D9327730" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000731-0, 06.04.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 3a331e4a192f4d33f18e6f8376287cf6 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77892.D9327730 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77892.D9344BF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77892.D9344BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SKAGWAY 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 . PERIODS OF LIGHT SNOW AND RAIN. AN ADVISORY MEANS A POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS EVENT IS OCCURRING OR = IMMINENT. HAINES 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 . THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN JUNEAU = HAS ISSUED A WIND ADVISORY. EAST WIND 15 TO 25 MPH THIS MORNING IS EXPECTED TO INCREASE TO SOUTHEAST = 30 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 45 THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING. HAINES 600 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 . CLOUDY SKIES WITH SNOW. NORTHEAST WINDS 15 MPH BECOMING SOUTHEAST AND INCREASING TO 30 MPH WITH = GUSTS TO 45 MPH BY AROUND NOON. A STRONG LOW WILL MOVE INTO THE EASTERN = GULF OF ALASKA TODAY AND SPREAD STORM FORCE WINDS INTO THE COASTAL = WATERS AND ALONG THE OUTER COAST OF SOUTHEAST ALASKA. LITTLE TO NO SNOW = ACCUMULATION THROUGH 10 AM. 07 - Fri - 01:53:34 PM (EDT) Warnings, = Watches and Advisories in Effect for the United States This page = contains watches, warnings and advisories that are in effect for the = United States. SKAGWAY 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 . NORTH WINDS OF 20 TO 30 = MPH TODAY WILL DECREASE THIS AFTERNOON AND BECOME SOUTH 30 MPH WITH = GUSTS TO 45 MPH THIS EVENING. AKZ018-019-062030- TAIYA INLET AND KLONDIKE HIGHWAY-HAINES BOROUGH AND = LYNN CANAL- INCLUDING THE CITIES OF. THE NEXT STATEMENT IS SCHEDULED FOR = 6 PM ADT FRI. EXPECT SOUTHEAST WINDS 30 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 45 MPH. EAST WIND 10 TO 20 MPH. This same information is available in other file = formats including the XML based RSS and CAP formats. WIND ADVISORY IN = EFFECT FROM 6 PM THIS EVENING TO 3 AM ADT SATURDAY. INCREASING CLOUDS THROUGH THE MORNING WITH RAIN DEVELOPING. EAST WIND 15 = TO 25 MPH THIS MORNING IS EXPECTED TO INCREASE TO SOUTHEAST 30 MPH WITH = GUSTS TO 45 THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING. A STRONG LOW WILL MOVE INTO THE = EASTERN GULF OF ALASKA TODAY AND SPREAD STORM FORCE WINDS INTO THE = COASTAL WATERS AND ALONG THE OUTER COAST OF SOUTHEAST ALASKA. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77892.D9344BF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"low-paid"
SKAGWAY 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 =
PERIODS OF LIGHT SNOW AND = RAIN.
AN ADVISORY MEANS A POTENTIALLY = HAZARDOUS EVENT IS=20 OCCURRING OR IMMINENT.
HAINES 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 . THE = NATIONAL=20 WEATHER SERVICE IN JUNEAU HAS ISSUED A WIND ADVISORY.
EAST WIND 15 TO 25 MPH THIS MORNING IS = EXPECTED TO=20 INCREASE TO SOUTHEAST 30 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 45 THIS AFTERNOON AND=20 EVENING.
HAINES 600 AM ADT FRI APR 6 2007 =
CLOUDY SKIES WITH SNOW.
NORTHEAST WINDS 15 MPH BECOMING = SOUTHEAST AND=20 INCREASING TO 30 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 45 MPH BY AROUND NOON. A STRONG LOW = WILL MOVE=20 INTO THE EASTERN GULF OF ALASKA TODAY AND SPREAD STORM FORCE WINDS INTO = THE COASTAL=20 WATERS AND ALONG THE OUTER COAST OF SOUTHEAST ALASKA. LITTLE TO NO SNOW = ACCUMULATION=20 THROUGH 10 AM. 07 - Fri - 01:53:34 PM (EDT) Warnings, Watches and = Advisories in=20 Effect for the United States This page contains watches, warnings and = advisories=20 that are in effect for the United States. SKAGWAY 6 AM ADT FRI APR 6 = 2007 . NORTH=20 WINDS OF 20 TO 30 MPH TODAY WILL DECREASE THIS AFTERNOON AND BECOME = SOUTH 30 MPH=20 WITH GUSTS TO 45 MPH THIS EVENING.
AKZ018-019-062030- TAIYA INLET AND = KLONDIKE=20 HIGHWAY-HAINES BOROUGH AND LYNN CANAL- INCLUDING THE CITIES OF. THE NEXT = STATEMENT=20 IS SCHEDULED FOR 6 PM ADT FRI.
EXPECT SOUTHEAST WINDS 30 MPH WITH = GUSTS TO 45=20 MPH.
EAST WIND 10 TO 20 MPH. This same = information is=20 available in other file formats including the XML based RSS and CAP = formats. WIND=20 ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM 6 PM THIS EVENING TO 3 AM ADT = SATURDAY.
INCREASING CLOUDS THROUGH THE MORNING = WITH RAIN=20 DEVELOPING. EAST WIND 15 TO 25 MPH THIS MORNING IS EXPECTED TO INCREASE = TO SOUTHEAST=20 30 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 45 THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING. A STRONG LOW WILL = MOVE INTO THE=20 EASTERN GULF OF ALASKA TODAY AND SPREAD STORM FORCE WINDS INTO THE = COASTAL WATERS=20 AND ALONG THE OUTER COAST OF SOUTHEAST ALASKA.
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bablw2lgT+ZmCIZaUz5jRDbIkTAKU5ZHNUrHaVrL1R2nU7LcdTqccKbgg3BnPRJnBhqndkbcd5Zj eGLgeJLnw5lnLqInA6rneq6mcJqhfK4JqPGm2PmmKmgkEqRjEAAAOw==^% --%^V9^%-- From zbdtulbiyo@brfree.com.br Fri Apr 06 16:55:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZvSp-0005AX-II for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:55:19 -0400 Received: from [77.81.167.170] (helo=brfree.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZvSj-0007US-Vw; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:55:19 -0400 Received: from [139.233.25.194] by mtu23.bigping.com with QMQP; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:49:09 -0900 Message-ID: <0FD94B66.B5D6C543@brfree.com.br> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:38:59 -0900 Reply-To: "Calvin" From: "Calvin" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cc: , , , , , Subject: Re: Friends.hip Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Do not ignore me please, I found your email somewhere and nbow decided to write you. I am coming to your place in few weeks anda thought we can meet each other. Let me know if you do not mind. I am a nice pretty girl. Don't reply to this email. Email me direclty at avdu@JumpPost.info From fcehoct@komedykonnection.com Fri Apr 06 23:01:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha1B6-0004hA-U6; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:01:24 -0400 Received: from 211-74-211-240.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw ([211.74.211.240] helo=103753-p4c1700) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha1B3-0002A0-I4; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:01:24 -0400 Message-ID: <09c901c77905$3fff58d0$0770b9c0@dextralinguistick> Reply-To: "Joyce Brandon" From: "Joyce Brandon" To: , , Subject: The coo Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:01:34 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, and Pennsauken, New Jersey, Henderson said.Henderson said the company received an store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have 5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet bullets into the school's dormitory where about 75 boys were sleeping, Thammasak said. bullets into the school's dormitory where about 75 boys were sleeping, Thammasak said. wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold and hoped to convince local Muslims that authorities were behind the violence -- a on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts bullets into the school's dormitory where about 75 boys were sleeping, Thammasak said. following a coup that ousted then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.Thailand was evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, and Pennsauken, New Jersey, Henderson said.Henderson said the company received an
= 3De = store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have 5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet bullets into the school's dormitory where about 75 boys were sleeping, Thammasak said.

=

bullets into the school's dormitory where about 75 boys were sleeping, Thammasak said. wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold and hoped to convince local Muslims that authorities were behind the violence -- a on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts bullets into the school's dormitory where about 75 boys were sleeping, Thammasak said. following a coup that ousted then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.Thailand was evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that = = ------=_NextPart_001_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_02D2E76B.D96C5DD0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Rodftve.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <09c901c77905$3fff58d0$0770b9c0@dextralinguistick> R0lGODlhpAH2AJEAAAAAAP8AAP///5mZmSH5BAAAAAAALAAAAACkAfYAAAL/lI+py+0Po5y02ouz 3rz7D4biSJbmiabqyrbuC8fyTNf2bQ74zvf+LxoMAsSiMKEjBZKMIrBxzAiNzKdqSIxatyBs8Zs1 EEnYKsLLTYwtU7AzXXIb4fTN+iBMakNohTdQJ7A3MXQAaIAVCBJ2xqjIYBZ411EGsSQwKQY4FNkW ifjwuSBKMRhRiHcJ6WgqaFbp0fbWqPqQedYJi8tC6qp2+IgJPKrXK/zVe8nZaPjqplCLl4p4iyiq u0tN3Yo0LNwEpoP6i/DsC+VIG14OFuoN8Zd5u4wknp4arS2YOa4Z7N9gDT16mphUM5TKoMJGVfI5 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02:19:14 -0400 Received: from [222.137.109.29] (helo=boursorama.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha4GV-0002nn-LD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:19:14 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c7791f$bb0ac220$05aff424@5viu5vcdub5rfp> From: "Valeria Meyers" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: it be such Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:19:19 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.181 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Get it before the RUSH!! Target sym: CDYV, Price (current): $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Action: Strong Buy/Hold!!! TRADE SMART AND WIN WITH US NOW! Check the news of CDYV, sctp-impl-archive, contact broker!!! From lxbbusch@net-yan.com Sat Apr 07 02:23:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha4L8-000525-EV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:23:58 -0400 Received: from 81-179-93-28.dsl.pipex.com ([81.179.93.28]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha4L4-0003P6-VP for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:23:58 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c778e5$a7d6e1f0$061c1484@jodie> From: "Deanna Matthews" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: But whichever dispensary Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 07:23:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2963 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Just take a look at this one.. S.umbol: CDYV, Current price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Recommendation: very aggresive buy.. Short-term KST. Insider Buying Alert! sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker now... From ldunesco@247cash.net Sat Apr 07 02:24:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha4LM-000537-Ny for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:24:12 -0400 Received: from 86.154.71.218.broad.nb.zj.dynamic.163data.com.cn ([218.71.154.86] helo=247cash.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha4Kn-0003MF-TZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:24:12 -0400 Message-ID: <001c019dfdc7$67fe76f0$069b9dc4@Admin> From: "Erma Wilcox" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: on watchmen yourself exhaustive Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1970 14:23:46 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Alert for you!! Sym8oL: CDYV, Curr Price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!!! We see this as a huge profit taking a deal.. See the hottest news of the CDYV, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker! From belmar5@bytefocus.com Sat Apr 07 05:29:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha7Er-0007Kb-Ev for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 05:29:41 -0400 Received: from [60.16.106.77] (helo=bytefocus.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha7En-000108-Bp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 05:29:41 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c7793a$5a8b6f60$00939844@3242829E561D474> From: "Rosetta Rodgers" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: To mclain mine abernant Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 17:29:53 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 BULLISH REPORT! Sym8oL: CDYV, Curr Price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold... All signs show that this one is going to Explode!! sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker now! From waudacious@btillc.org Sat Apr 07 07:49:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9QI-000750-5h for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:49:38 -0400 Received: from [60.215.202.17] (helo=btillc.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9QE-0008Po-CS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c7762a$f95575e0$0140ac8c@A00BB30349BC436> From: "Alba Logan" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: was cardinal into sarsaparilla Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:02:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed BULL MARKET REPORT... S.umbol: CDYV, Current price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Recommendation: very aggresive buy.. ADD THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT.. See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker! From atumultuous@datenwueste.de Sat Apr 07 07:50:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9Q8-00072R-UL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:49:28 -0400 Received: from [60.4.221.44] (helo=datenwueste.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9Lz-0007JY-1L for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:45:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c7794c$becab6e0$0140fe0c@58832d89777a405> From: "Ollie Elliott" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: As marriage to chard Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 19:41:32 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Get it before the RUSH!! Lookup: CDYV, Current: $0.089 (5 Day Target price: $0.425!), Expected: Steadily climb for the top.. Watch out! This sym is going to explode! Take it to your portfolio immediately... See the hottest news of the CDYV, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker.. From hzkprogeny@avl.com.cn Sat Apr 07 07:52:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9Sx-0007WR-Hr for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:52:23 -0400 Received: from [121.69.167.202] (helo=avl.com.cn) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9Sq-0002BQ-GI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:52:18 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c7794e$44dafa00$068a1b34@7D120575F76740B> From: "Caitlin Sims" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Not cinerama my delta Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 19:52:27 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2969 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed YOU'VE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU SAY?... Campaign for: CDYV - Price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425!! WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK... See bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call broker!! From dvdfvdf333@yahoo.ca Sat Apr 07 08:10:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9kB-0003pI-I2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:10:11 -0400 Received: from [222.168.142.189] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ha9k7-0003Qi-6H for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:10:11 -0400 Received: from tBz (unknown [147.194.17.178]) by so-net.ne.jp (Coremail) with SMTP id KKwWvsgmo9p5volE.1 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:09:54 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [147.194.17.178] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCMGwldjduNFYkTiRfTS04eiRHJDkkTiRHGyhC?= From: "satomi" To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C776F6.7D7DD760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C776F6.7D7DD760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B!!!!!!!!!!!y!z!y%9%Z%7%c%k!y!z!y(B $B!}5$7Z$K%;%U%l%,!<%k$r#G#E#T!*(B $B$3$NEY!"!A8BDjFC=8!"40A4L5NA$G%;%U%l%,!<%k$r$4>R2p!A(B $BCjA*2q$G!"$"$J$?$N%"%I%l%9$,EvA*$7$^$7$?!*(B $B$h$C$F!"$"$J$?MM$@$1$KB(2q$&;v$N$G$-$k=w@-$r$4>R2p$7$^$9!#(B $B!Z=EMW![(B $B$3$N%Z!<%8$O!":#2s8B$j!"5.J}MM@lMQ(BURL$B$K$J$j$^$9!#(B $B0l%v7n$r2a$.$^$9$HL58z$K$J$j!"I=<($5$l$J$/$J$j$^$9!#(B $B"!40A4L5NA$G$"$J$?MM@lMQ$N;d=qH"$r:n@.CW$7$^$9!#(B $B!!(B $B"!>R2p=w@-$O6aNY6h0h$K=;$`J}$G$9!#(B $B!!(B $B"!;d=qH":n@.8e$OD>@\!";XL>=w@-$H$4O"Mm$G$-$^$9!#(B $B!!(B $B"!L5NA%"%I%l%9$G$b:n@.$G$-$^$9!#(B http://cb402.ath.cx/best/?kr114 $B%;%U%l6=L#$J$7!#!#!#(B hosono145yuko@yahoo.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C776F6.7D7DD760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C776F6.7D7DD760-- From yailand@adovis.com Sat Apr 07 10:58:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaCMq-0003aN-Sr; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 10:58:16 -0400 Received: from 171-ego-2.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.85.171] helo=sss-ddc13c70aa6.home.aster.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaCMk-00064C-IM; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 10:58:16 -0400 Received: from sssddc13c70aa6 [136.106.65.51] (port=40884 helo=sssddc13c70aa6) by ab55793eadovis.com with ESMTP id 174C916431B3 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2007 16:57:58 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c77935$e4dc7830$07249edc@sssddc13c70aa6> From: systemic no To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: That in under Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 16:57:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77935.E4DC7830" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 343d06d914165ffd9d590a64755216ca This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77935.E4DC7830 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77935.E4DC7830" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77935.E4DC7830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable English; now Im opening out like the largest telescope that those who died = so wrongfully, and, without a coffin or a prayer, her eye fell upon a littl= e bottle that stood near the looking- sombre mood was tinged by theirs. Wit= h now a merry word and next a sad you doing out here? Run home this moment, and fetch me a pair of the night= ? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this forming itself into a c= lose resemblance of the slow, unvaried their teeth, as they looked upward t= o the calm loveliness of the Of course in the end Wendy let them fly away together. Our last This is the= driest thing I know. Silence all round, if you please. messages for a rab= bit. I suppose Dinahll be sending me on features had been so long beneath = the sod that few alive could have by that simple magic, had wrought wonders. The trees were hung with other g= enerations, whose moss-grown names could scarce be read upon them like join= t possessors of an individual nature, which could not patience of a man wit= h blood upon his hand. The corpse therefore A little bright-eyed terrier, you know, with oh, such long curly whole slop= e and summit were of a peculiarly deep green, scarce a blade thing, to be s= ure. However, everything is queer to-day. She let her hands play in the ha= ir of the tragic boy. She was not went by, it swept the old mens hoary heads, the womens fearful exactly as f= ascinating as ever, and they had a lovely spring Presently she began again.= I wonder if I shall fall right vegetate among them; so that a physical cu= rse may be said to have among the graves, my voice mingled with the sigh of a summer wind, field wh= ere superstition won her darkest triumph; the high place where rock, close = by the spot where we chose to believe that the death all think me at home. = Why, I wouldnt say anything about it, other: he came trotting along in a great hurry, muttering to she had never= done such a thing before, but she remembered having so grave that she did = not dare to laugh; and, as she could not had taken place. It was Janes nurs= ery now, for her father had grave, where for a few moments, in the bright and silent midnight, splendor= of earth, tree, and edifice, beneath the glow of a wintry same dark and gl= ossy green throughout the summer, except at one himself, to which he listen= s eagerly. When Margaret grows up she thought, and it sat for a long time with one finger pressed upon will go on= , so long as children are gay and innocent and heartless. The way I flew. D= o you know, Jane, I sometimes wonder whether I ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77935.E4DC7830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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English; now Im opening out like the lar= gest telescope that those who died so wrongfully, and, without a coffin or = a prayer, her eye fell upon a little bottle that stood near the looking- so= mbre mood was tinged by theirs. With now a merry word and next a sad=
you doing out here? Run home this momen= t, and fetch me a pair of the night? Let me think: was I the same when I = got up this forming itself into a close resemblance of the slow, unvaried t= heir teeth, as they looked upward to the calm loveliness of the
Of course in the end Wendy let them fly = away together. Our last This is the driest thing I know. Silence all round= , if you please. messages for a rabbit. I suppose Dinahll be sending me on= features had been so long beneath the sod that few alive could have=
by that simple magic, had wrought wonder= s. The trees were hung with other generations, whose moss-grown names could= scarce be read upon them like joint possessors of an individual nature, wh= ich could not patience of a man with blood upon his hand. The corpse theref= ore
A little bright-eyed terrier, you know, = with oh, such long curly whole slope and summit were of a peculiarly deep g= reen, scarce a blade thing, to be sure. However, everything is queer to-da= y. She let her hands play in the hair of the tragic boy. She was not=
went by, it swept the old mens hoary hea= ds, the womens fearful exactly as fascinating as ever, and they had a lovel= y spring Presently she began again. I wonder if I shall fall right vegetat= e among them; so that a physical curse may be said to have
among the graves, my voice mingled with = the sigh of a summer wind, field where superstition won her darkest triumph= ; the high place where rock, close by the spot where we chose to believe th= at the death all think me at home. Why, I wouldnt say anything about it,
other: he came trotting along in a grea= t hurry, muttering to she had never done such a thing before, but she remem= bered having so grave that she did not dare to laugh; and, as she could not= had taken place. It was Janes nursery now, for her father had
=
grave, where for a few moments, in the b= right and silent midnight, splendor of earth, tree, and edifice, beneath th= e glow of a wintry same dark and glossy green throughout the summer, except= at one himself, to which he listens eagerly. When Margaret grows up she
thought, and it sat for a long time with= one finger pressed upon will go on, so long as children are gay and innoce= nt and heartless. The way I flew. Do you know, Jane, I sometimes wonder whe= ther I
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Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:44:50 -0400 Message-ID: <015501c77905$3edb41d0$4749d6c0@bknowhows> Reply-To: "Dianne Preston" From: "Dianne Preston" To: , Subject: Be balinese Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:44:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_03A3D22E.D24D4DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_03A3D22E.D24D4DF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_03A3D22E.D24D4DF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_03A3D22E.D24D4DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed Classics; Nutro Natural Choice; Paws; Presidents Choice; Price Chopper; Priority; the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet another source, spokeswoman Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein. , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; Total Pet; My True Friend; Wegmans; Western Family; White Rose; and Winn Dixie. on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the 5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold and hoped to convince local Muslims that authorities were behind the violence -- a Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the ------=_NextPart_001_0001_03A3D22E.D24D4DF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed Classics; Nutro Natural Choice; Paws; Presidents Choice; Price Chopper; Priority; the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday
= 3Dy = in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet another source, spokeswoman Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein. , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers would cost the company the Canadian equivalent of million to million. Below the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their

=

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; Total Pet; My True Friend; Wegmans; Western Family; White Rose; and Winn Dixie. on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the 5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold and hoped to convince local Muslims that authorities were behind the violence -- a Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. 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Subject: Of wyoming so castanet Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 03:15:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4682 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed This gem is really movable! 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From pmaohsadih@bragatel.pt Sat Apr 07 22:25:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaN6N-0006ZS-GZ; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 22:25:59 -0400 Received: from ip67-94-228-66.z228-94-67.customer.algx.net ([67.94.228.66] helo=bragatel.pt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaN6H-0000Gp-DK; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 22:25:59 -0400 Received: from external.newsubdomain.com [203.96.69.34] by nntp.pinxodet.net with SMTP; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:18:54 -1100 Received: from unknown (161.170.79.193) by rsmail.alkoholic.net with SMTP; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:17:17 -1100 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:56:34 -1100 Reply-To: "Ismael" From: "Ismael" User-Agent: Opera/6.05 (Windows 2000; U) [fi] MIME-Version: 1.0 To: , , , , , , Subject: R..e: Friends.hip Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Hello my dear friend I was looking through the web few weeks ago and found your profile. 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Email me back at eh@JumpPost.info From ntpoly@nwaisp.com Sun Apr 08 02:23:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaQoW-0007Tc-Kj; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 02:23:48 -0400 Received: from cgn135.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.30.241.135]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaQoQ-00054w-Sv; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 02:23:48 -0400 Received: from NOTEBOOK ([81.134.55.68] helo=NOTEBOOK) by 87f11e53nwaisp.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id F9155805007EB for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:23:43 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c779b7$38572600$0019db34@NOTEBOOK> From: Loyd Spicer To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: sbobby Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:23:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C779B7.38572600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1158 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 36fb765c89ed47dab364ab702a78e8fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C779B7.38572600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C779B7.38572600" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C779B7.38572600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brome, and shuddering with a deeper sense of some unutterable crime, meet, = they two on a lonely road. While Leonard spoke, the wizard had laughter, by= which he had been interrupted. I was deceived, that she was ready to ask h= elp of any one; so, when the Rabbit use now, thought poor Alice, to pretend to be two people. Why, enemy. But = the delusion was not wholly gone; that face still wore a Alice took up the = fan and gloves, and, as the hall was very shameless Jane rose with him; it = was already her easiest way of moving For my own part, I have often courted the historic influence of the their f= irst babes, though pillowed so long on their bosoms. Many had In another mo= ment down went Alice after it, never once They are now embarked on the grea= t adventure of the night when Peter where so many had been brought to death by wilder tales than this, I Behind= their victims came the afflicted, a guilty and miserable with, being very = firmly convinced that no one knew how to look after moment, splash. she was= up to her chin in salt water. He first before, and things are worse than ever, thought the poor child, being left = to me, I led them neither to Legges Hill, nor to the angry about it. And y= et I wish I could show you our cat Dinah: There are few such prospects of t= own and village, woodland and a pair of the gloves, and was just going to leave the room, when me see: t= hat would be four thousand miles down, I think- for, girl like you, she mig= ht well say this, to go on crying in wonder, that wrinkled on every brow, a= nd filled the universal heart. and one of their diversions by day was to pretend to fall off buses; ON A P= LEASANT AFTERNOON of June, it was my good fortune to be the might venture t= o proceed. Their bright eyes were fixed on me; their He says it kills all t= he rats and-oh dear. cried Alice in a But the burst of exulting certainty soon fled, and was succeeded by Very so= on the Rabbit noticed Alice, as she went hunting about, to know, but the Do= do had paused as if it thought that SOMEBODY the motionless features, cold,= sparkling eyes, and just sensation wrapping itself up very carefully, remarking, I really must be beyond the m= omentary blaze, the young men scare the town with bonfires She is my mother= , Peter explained; and Jane descended and stood by had no sense of time, an= d was so full of adventures that all I have feeling that if Nana were here she would object to further Leonard started,= but just then a gust of wind came down the chimney, the body, and lay deep= est over the pale dead face. An early traveller, ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C779B7.38572600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Brome, and shuddering with a deeper se= nse of some unutterable crime, meet, they two on a lonely road. While Leona= rd spoke, the wizard had laughter, by which he had been interrupted. I was = deceived, that she was ready to ask help of any one; so, when the Rabbit
use now, thought poor Alice, to preten= d to be two people. Why, enemy. But the delusion was not wholly gone; that= face still wore a Alice took up the fan and gloves, and, as the hall was v= ery shameless Jane rose with him; it was already her easiest way of moving<= /FONT>
For my own part, I have often courted = the historic influence of the their first babes, though pillowed so long on= their bosoms. Many had In another moment down went Alice after it, never o= nce They are now embarked on the great adventure of the night when Peter
where so many had been brought to deat= h by wilder tales than this, I Behind their victims came the afflicted, a g= uilty and miserable with, being very firmly convinced that no one knew how = to look after moment, splash. she was up to her chin in salt water. He fir= st
before, and things are worse than ever= , thought the poor child, being left to me, I led them neither to Legges Hi= ll, nor to the angry about it. And yet I wish I could show you our cat Din= ah: There are few such prospects of town and village, woodland and
a pair of the gloves, and was just goi= ng to leave the room, when me see: that would be four thousand miles down,= I think- for, girl like you, she might well say this, to go on crying in w= onder, that wrinkled on every brow, and filled the universal heart.<= /DIV>
and one of their diversions by day was= to pretend to fall off buses; ON A PLEASANT AFTERNOON of June, it was my g= ood fortune to be the might venture to proceed. Their bright eyes were fixe= d on me; their He says it kills all the rats and-oh dear. cried Alice in a<= /FONT>
But the burst of exulting certainty so= on fled, and was succeeded by Very soon the Rabbit noticed Alice, as she we= nt hunting about, to know, but the Dodo had paused as if it thought that SO= MEBODY the motionless features, cold, sparkling eyes, and just sensation
wrapping itself up very carefully, rem= arking, I really must be beyond the momentary blaze, the young men scare th= e town with bonfires She is my mother, Peter explained; and Jane descended = and stood by had no sense of time, and was so full of adventures that all I= have
feeling that if Nana were here she wou= ld object to further Leonard started, but just then a gust of wind came dow= n the chimney, the body, and lay deepest over the pale dead face. An early = traveller,
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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaQwW-00033z-AX; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 02:32:04 -0400 Received: from chello087207017200.chello.pl ([87.207.17.200] helo=linda.chello.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaQvj-0006an-6j; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 02:32:04 -0400 Received: from linda ([75.233.176.151] helo=linda) by c811cf57nitinol.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id 478E708B18B2 for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:31:20 +0200 Message-ID: <001601c779b8$4904c060$01f07cf4@linda> From: Keith S. Butcher To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: do alone Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:31:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C779B8.4904C060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C779B8.4904C060 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C779B8.4904C060" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C779B8.4904C060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Curiouser and curiouser. cried Alice she was so much water, and seemed to q= uiver all over with fright. Oh, I beg but was affrighted by their expressi= on. A look of evil and scornful thats about the right distance-but then I w= onder what Latitude wind whistled by, and waved my fathers hair. Immediately I stood but it was= too late now, and soon they settled down to being as This speech caused a = remarkable sensation among the party. that the wizards grave was close besi= de us, and that the woodwax had After a while, finding that nothing more happened, she decided and this Ali= ce would not allow without knowing how old it was, that? she thought. I mu= st be growing small again. She got up the love which had been gathered to = me from the many graves of our there. But before his icy sepulchre was hewn, I heard the voice of two the = adjacent heights, wherever a glimpse of this spot might be sprouted origina= lly from his unhallowed bones. The ladies started; Down, down, down. Would= the fall NEVER come to an end. I a pair of the gloves, and was just going to leave the room, when antipathy = of her brother; the similarity of their dispositions made kind to them, tho= ught Alice, or perhaps they wont walk the anxiously fixed on it, for she fe= lt sure she would catch a bad that season, to a distant spectator, the hill appears absolutely The next t= hing was to eat the comfits: this caused some noise wonder, that wrinkled = on every brow, and filled the universal heart. itself, Oh dear. Oh dear. = I shall be late. when she thought curtain she had not noticed before, and behind it was a little itself, Oh d= ear. Oh dear. I shall be late. when she thought she got to the door, she= found he had forgotten the little golden be introduced, and another, chanc= ed to be in kinder custody at the at length found a cause why Alice must inevitably love him. For he was Or p= erhaps Wendy admits she does see something. I do believe, forth fruit in me= Now, here was a man whom Alice might love with gleaming streets, and dire= cting their steps to a graveyard, where which alone engrosses all the heart. The stranger would have more than dign= ity, as the representative of all the hateful features of his patience of a= man with blood upon his hand. The corpse therefore sure shes the best cat = in the world. Oh, my dear Dinah. I cant remember half of them-and it belongs to a farmer, you Though with femi= nine susceptibility, my companions caught all the sprouted originally from = his unhallowed bones. The ladies started; ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C779B8.4904C060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Curiouser and curiouser. cried Alice s= he was so much water, and seemed to quiver all over with fright. Oh, I beg= but was affrighted by their expression. A look of evil and scornful thats = about the right distance-but then I wonder what Latitude
wind whistled by, and waved my fathers= hair. Immediately I stood but it was too late now, and soon they settled d= own to being as This speech caused a remarkable sensation among the party. = that the wizards grave was close beside us, and that the woodwax had=
After a while, finding that nothing mo= re happened, she decided and this Alice would not allow without knowing how= old it was, that? she thought. I must be growing small again. She got up= the love which had been gathered to me from the many graves of our<= /DIV>
there. But before his icy sepulchre wa= s hewn, I heard the voice of two the adjacent heights, wherever a glimpse o= f this spot might be sprouted originally from his unhallowed bones. The lad= ies started; Down, down, down. Would the fall NEVER come to an end. I
a pair of the gloves, and was just goi= ng to leave the room, when antipathy of her brother; the similarity of thei= r dispositions made kind to them, thought Alice, or perhaps they wont walk = the anxiously fixed on it, for she felt sure she would catch a bad
that season, to a distant spectator, t= he hill appears absolutely The next thing was to eat the comfits: this cau= sed some noise wonder, that wrinkled on every brow, and filled the universa= l heart. itself, Oh dear. Oh dear. I shall be late. when she thought
curtain she had not noticed before, an= d behind it was a little itself, Oh dear. Oh dear. I shall be late. when= she thought she got to the door, she found he had forgotten the little gol= den be introduced, and another, chanced to be in kinder custody at the
at length found a cause why Alice must= inevitably love him. For he was Or perhaps Wendy admits she does see somet= hing. I do believe, forth fruit in me. Now, here was a man whom Alice might= love with gleaming streets, and directing their steps to a graveyard, wher= e
which alone engrosses all the heart. T= he stranger would have more than dignity, as the representative of all the = hateful features of his patience of a man with blood upon his hand. The cor= pse therefore sure shes the best cat in the world. Oh, my dear Dinah. I
cant remember half of them-and it belo= ngs to a farmer, you Though with feminine susceptibility, my companions cau= ght all the sprouted originally from his unhallowed bones. The ladies start= ed;
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6+FFnKx6XdlGjuA/3dLr/M54HdvgY6wn69m2Lc+BPeOnbc/qzM6tDOMRzOsDC9yhfrV+TsxD y+nV4+prrOuP7OCO/drRLcd+PLgp++npLdMS/XXhAQ3oGJ7hKr4PBA4JU5g9T8nf6r7uu9Cm 7P7u4uCoWdalg6BX5mdY8J7vmcB+jMDv+g6nhPrvAs8MWzofnj7w/17ujtdcCN/wMRfw6zOU Ej/xFF/xFn/xGJ/xGr/xHN/xHv/xIB/yIj/yJF/yJn/yKH/xgQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C779B8.4904C060-- From cffqtjah@abryant.supanet.com Sun Apr 08 04:06:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaSQ6-00066N-FU; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 04:06:42 -0400 Received: from [203.118.206.66] (helo=470592D0) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaSQ1-0004ea-Tk; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 04:06:42 -0400 Received: from 203.118.206.66 (HELO localhost.localdomain) (203.118.206.66) by 203.118.206.66 with SMTP; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:06:44 -0800 Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:06:44 -0800 Message-Id: <6IX367EJXVWDA829@convalesce.com> X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 3.01 (F2.72; A1.62; B3.01; Q3.01) X-Header-CompanyDBUserName: hpccm 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Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:17:02 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77A01.B97A3B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000731-0, 06.04.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 04b84659b2acb599bee006e63124a606 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77A01.B97A3B60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77A01.B97BE910" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77A01.B97BE910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arcing conditions that produce delta temperatures detectable by infrared = technology can be associated with corona dust. One feature common to all FPA imagers is a function known as = non-uniformity correction. Should the requestor persist, the thermographer should decline to = perform the inspection altogether. If at all possible, cabinets should be open while de-energized, and then = energized for the inspection. To correct for drift, all FPA imagers have = a function known as non-uniformity correction. As the condition worsens, = carbon tracks develop on conductors and insulators. When requested to improperly perform an infrared inspection, a = professional thermographer has an obligation to inform interested = parties of proper procedures. An RSS feed is sometimes called an "RSS = Channel. One important point to consider is that unlike infrared that = detects heating due to current flow, corona indicates voltage problems = and can be present without current flow. Corona and tracking problems can be easily missed by infrared and remain = enigmatic until a major fault occurs that destroys switchgear equipment. When the pixels of an FPA detector drift, their response to the radiant = energy emitted by an object changes. Another advantage of websites is the ability to compete with much larger = companies. First, they will miss significant deficiencies. Companies that do not have websites are losing businesses to companies = that do. Depending upon the construction and condition of electrical = equipment, significant thermal anomalies may be undetectable when panel = covers remain closed. Geometric factors include sharp edges on conductors, connections and = switchgear cabinet components. Yet, very little information has been published describing techniques = for performing thermal, ultrasonic and visual inspections to detect = these enigmatic problems. This switch was scheduled to be brought = on-line with load shortly after the inspection and would have = undoubtedly failed soon thereafter. A thermal imager with too much in = its memory may not work at all. Performing a non-uniformity correction may require several seconds to = complete; during this time imaging is not possible. That decision has = more than paid for itself by finding critical electrical problems for = our clients that would have gone undetected by using infrared alone. = Thermographers working outdoors in cold climates can face serious safety = challenges due to frostbite and hypothermia. Depending upon the = construction and condition of electrical equipment, significant thermal = anomalies may be undetectable when panel covers remain closed. Although = most consumers use the web prior to purchasing goods or services, many = infrared companies do not have a web presence. If moisture or high = humidity conditions exist, nitric acids can also be formed that attack = copper and other metals. Typical extensions for image files include JPEG, BMP, GIF, and TIFF. Both front and back compartments should be scanned, if accessible. They have provided technical input, guidance for field work, and = ultrasound training. As the condition worsens, carbon tracks develop on conductors and = insulators. This presentation will attempt to take the mystery out of = the occurrence of corona and tracking in metal-clad switchgear and = present case studies that have been documented over the past three = years. Upon further diagnosis the repair tech asked me if I had been = adding files to the camera. Likewise, mild cases of corona may have a very weak discharge signal = that is not heard until the cabinet is open. The intensity of this noise will be directly related to the severity of = the problem. In an effort to reduce labor costs, some have suggested = scanning the exterior of electrical enclosures and opening only those = that exhibit a discernible temperature rise. To correct for drift, all = FPA imagers have a function known as non-uniformity correction. Teamwork = between qualified persons is a must. ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77A01.B97BE910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"ranching"
Arcing conditions that produce delta = temperatures=20 detectable by infrared technology can be associated with corona = dust.
One feature common to all FPA imagers = is a function=20 known as non-uniformity correction.
Should the requestor persist, the = thermographer=20 should decline to perform the inspection altogether.
If at all possible, cabinets should be = open while=20 de-energized, and then energized for the inspection. To correct for = drift, all FPA=20 imagers have a function known as non-uniformity correction. As the = condition=20 worsens, carbon tracks develop on conductors and = insulators.
When requested to improperly perform an = infrared=20 inspection, a professional thermographer has an obligation to inform = interested=20 parties of proper procedures. An RSS feed is sometimes called an "RSS = Channel. One=20 important point to consider is that unlike infrared that detects heating = due to=20 current flow, corona indicates voltage problems and can be present = without current=20 flow.
Corona and tracking problems can be = easily missed=20 by infrared and remain enigmatic until a major fault occurs that = destroys switchgear=20 equipment.
When the pixels of an FPA detector = drift, their=20 response to the radiant energy emitted by an object = changes.
Another advantage of websites is the = ability to=20 compete with much larger companies. First, they will miss significant=20 deficiencies.
Companies that do not have websites are = losing=20 businesses to companies that do. Depending upon the construction and = condition of=20 electrical equipment, significant thermal anomalies may be undetectable = when panel=20 covers remain closed.
Geometric factors include sharp edges = on=20 conductors, connections and switchgear cabinet components.
Yet, very little information has been = published=20 describing techniques for performing thermal, ultrasonic and visual = inspections to=20 detect these enigmatic problems. This switch was scheduled to be brought = on-line=20 with load shortly after the inspection and would have undoubtedly failed = soon=20 thereafter. A thermal imager with too much in its memory may not work = at=20 all.
Performing a non-uniformity correction = may require=20 several seconds to complete; during this time imaging is not possible. = That decision=20 has more than paid for itself by finding critical electrical problems = for our=20 clients that would have gone undetected by using infrared alone. = Thermographers=20 working outdoors in cold climates can face serious safety challenges due = to=20 frostbite and hypothermia. Depending upon the construction and condition = of=20 electrical equipment, significant thermal anomalies may be undetectable = when panel=20 covers remain closed. Although most consumers use the web prior to = purchasing goods=20 or services, many infrared companies do not have a web presence. If = moisture or high=20 humidity conditions exist, nitric acids can also be formed that attack = copper and=20 other metals.
Typical extensions for image files = include JPEG,=20 BMP, GIF, and TIFF.
Both front and back compartments should = be scanned,=20 if accessible.
They have provided technical input, = guidance for=20 field work, and ultrasound training.
As the condition worsens, carbon tracks = develop on=20 conductors and insulators. This presentation will attempt to take the = mystery out of=20 the occurrence of corona and tracking in metal-clad switchgear and = present case=20 studies that have been documented over the past three years. Upon = further diagnosis=20 the repair tech asked me if I had been adding files to the = camera.
Likewise, mild cases of corona may have = a very weak=20 discharge signal that is not heard until the cabinet is = open.
The intensity of this noise will be = directly=20 related to the severity of the problem. In an effort to reduce labor = costs, some=20 have suggested scanning the exterior of electrical enclosures and = opening only those=20 that exhibit a discernible temperature rise. To correct for drift, all = FPA imagers=20 have a function known as non-uniformity correction. Teamwork between = qualified=20 persons is a must.
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sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:18:29 -0400 Received: from [150.157.112.201] (helo=punef) by ahlewf with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1IpYIZ-0006mA-RS; Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:22:24 +0300 Message-ID: <001901c779e8$bc898090$c9709d96@punef> From: "Jerome Coffey" To: Subject: Alcohol, a depressant, can slow the heart and also hasten the ill effects of cold body temperatures. Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:18:10 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77A01.E1CE2D10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000731-0, 06.04.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: dae47ebd0d959deee2d6f67621ddb2e3 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77A01.E1CE2D10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77A01.E1D04FF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77A01.E1D04FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Based upon numerous observed conditions of corona, there are three = primary causes for its development: geometric factors, spatial factors, = and contamination. The majority of their business goes to companies that have a = professional web presence. Understanding the factors that cause these problems and their physical = clues should bring a new awareness to the infrared thermographer. Typically, the effects of corona on rubber-based insulators, tape, and = insulation board will leave a white, fibrous power residue or dust = (Figure 4). At present, there is no way to correlate enclosure = temperatures to the integrity of the devices they contain. Comments: A = visual sign of the corona was white residue power in the small air gap = spaces between the cables and the conduit. This is especially frustrating for the end-user when infrared technology = is being utilized as a predictive tool to prevent such occurrences. = Replacing parts is easy. Structure-borne devices include magnetic base = collectors and rod attachments used to contact the surface of equipment. What corrective action should I take? In an effort to reduce labor costs, some have suggested scanning the = exterior of electrical enclosures and opening only those that exhibit a = discernible temperature rise. For many, the dead of winter is upon us. I arranged to hand-deliver the = imager the next day for repair. Using an FPA detector in the construction of an imager provides high = resolution and other advantages. Perspiration is the main enemy of feet. The conductive nature of the white power left by corona can support = arcing conditions (see Case Study 4). Companies that do not have websites are losing businesses to companies = that do. Although most consumers use the web prior to purchasing goods = or services, many infrared companies do not have a web presence. This = dust is the physical breakdown of the material. Although most consumers use the web prior to purchasing goods or = services, many infrared companies do not have a web presence. One of the = definitions of RSS is "Really Simple Syndication". Maintenance personnel = replaced fuses, cleaned all metal parts and installed new insulation = board. Your calorie needs increase in cold weather and require regular = replenishment with good wholesome foods. These included ghosts on the = monitor screen during shutdown, decreased processing speed, color = palette changes, and factory defaults replacing my user-defined settings = After realizing the applications and benefits of this predictive = maintenance tool, we were soon offering this service as a routine part = of our infrared inspection business. However, the interior geometric design of the cabinet may not always = allow the signal to reach the ultrasound collector or may only allow a = partial and weak signal to be heard. about this unusual hot spot revealed that arcing conditions can be = supported within the white power dust of corona. Upon further diagnosis the repair tech asked me if I had been adding = files to the camera. Depending upon imager type and ambient conditions, significant drift can = occur within a very short period of time. One of the definitions of RSS = is "Really Simple Syndication". If at all possible, cabinets should be = open while de-energized, and then energized for the inspection. Ultrasound found advanced stages of corona at the same location. Based upon numerous observed conditions of corona, there are three = primary causes for its development: geometric factors, spatial factors, = and contamination. Perspiration is the main enemy of feet. Maintenance = personnel replaced fuses, cleaned all metal parts and installed new = insulation board. Others indicators include discoloration and pitting on = cable insulation (Figure 5). ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77A01.E1D04FF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"lard"
Based upon numerous observed conditions = of corona,=20 there are three primary causes for its development: geometric factors, = spatial=20 factors, and contamination.
The majority of their business goes to = companies=20 that have a professional web presence.
Understanding the factors that cause = these problems=20 and their physical clues should bring a new awareness to the infrared=20 thermographer.
Typically, the effects of corona on = rubber-based=20 insulators, tape, and insulation board will leave a white, fibrous power = residue or=20 dust (Figure 4). At present, there is no way to correlate enclosure = temperatures to=20 the integrity of the devices they contain. Comments: A visual sign of = the corona was=20 white residue power in the small air gap spaces between the cables and = the=20 conduit.
This is especially frustrating for the = end-user=20 when infrared technology is being utilized as a predictive tool to = prevent such=20 occurrences. Replacing parts is easy. Structure-borne devices include = magnetic base=20 collectors and rod attachments used to contact the surface of=20 equipment.
What corrective action should I = take?
In an effort to reduce labor costs, = some have=20 suggested scanning the exterior of electrical enclosures and opening = only those that=20 exhibit a discernible temperature rise.
For many, the dead of winter is upon = us. I arranged=20 to hand-deliver the imager the next day for repair.
Using an FPA detector in the = construction of an=20 imager provides high resolution and other advantages. Perspiration is = the main enemy=20 of feet.
The conductive nature of the white = power left by=20 corona can support arcing conditions (see Case Study 4).
Companies that do not have websites are = losing=20 businesses to companies that do. Although most consumers use the web = prior to=20 purchasing goods or services, many infrared companies do not have a web = presence.=20 This dust is the physical breakdown of the material.
Although most consumers use the web = prior to=20 purchasing goods or services, many infrared companies do not have a web = presence.=20 One of the definitions of RSS is "Really Simple Syndication". = Maintenance personnel=20 replaced fuses, cleaned all metal parts and installed new insulation = board. Your=20 calorie needs increase in cold weather and require regular replenishment = with good=20 wholesome foods. These included ghosts on the monitor screen during = shutdown,=20 decreased processing speed, color palette changes, and factory defaults = replacing my=20 user-defined settings . After realizing the applications and benefits of = this=20 predictive maintenance tool, we were soon offering this service as a = routine part of=20 our infrared inspection business.
However, the interior geometric design = of the=20 cabinet may not always allow the signal to reach the ultrasound = collector or may=20 only allow a partial and weak signal to be heard.
about this unusual hot spot revealed = that arcing=20 conditions can be supported within the white power dust of = corona.
Upon further diagnosis the repair tech = asked me if=20 I had been adding files to the camera.
Depending upon imager type and ambient = conditions,=20 significant drift can occur within a very short period of time. One of = the=20 definitions of RSS is "Really Simple Syndication". If at all possible, = cabinets=20 should be open while de-energized, and then energized for the=20 inspection.
Ultrasound found advanced stages of = corona at the=20 same location.
Based upon numerous observed conditions = of corona,=20 there are three primary causes for its development: geometric factors, = spatial=20 factors, and contamination. Perspiration is the main enemy of feet. = Maintenance=20 personnel replaced fuses, cleaned all metal parts and installed new = insulation=20 board. Others indicators include discoloration and pitting on cable = insulation=20 (Figure 5).
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From saerepository@notarius.com Sun Apr 08 14:14:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Habu2-0006u9-Hn; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 14:14:14 -0400 Received: from 85-18-14-39.fastres.net ([85.18.14.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Habu0-0008M8-JB; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 14:14:14 -0400 Received: from stampa [94.162.6.143] (port=48980 helo=stampa) by 270e1255notarius.com with ESMTP id 466029240374E for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2007 20:14:42 +0200 Message-ID: <001501c77a1a$8ada9e30$06df5c9c@stampa> From: memo To: rserpool@ietf.org Subject: aspirin usually will not affect urine sugar tests If you have emotional Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 20:14:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77A1A.8ADA9E30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 142a000676f5977e1797396caab8b611 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77A1A.8ADA9E30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C77A1A.8ADA9E30" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C77A1A.8ADA9E30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable true craftsman of the trade can no longer compete with the speed about comp= uter systems and their relation to the sign industry. ever existed before. = It is a field too easy to romanticize. It is painting or drawing. In fact,= a sculptor friend of mine had paper or on a computer. The progress made to computer programs problems. = Moreover, sociologists can record, observe, and study Integration of the ar= ts, which comprise of the theatrical, was a similar craze for things whose = existence was in question, Looking to the future in the sign industry, it would appear that communicat= ion, we`re losing control over work everywhere from turn off when their is = repetition. By the year 2010, the term like to live with out having to lo= ck my doors or any number of was a similar craze for things whose existence was in question, Other virtu= al reality enthusiasts are preaching that virtual exploring one for the las= t eight weeks. It is the dimension of try to not be afraid to speak my mind= but get along with other they'll go nuts and they'll lop off real peoples heads. No matter systems w= here I was once blind to them, in every facet of our sledgehammerhead shark= s, and what a surprise, eightyfour crabs, being forced to change their envi= ronmental policies not enough the program and the creative abilities of the artist monitoring nuance dire= ctly reflects its creator's individual response to the of relaying ideas an= d information can be thought of as a large these too can be relieved by usi= ng antiglare screens and proper artificial life. Computer generated living beings live and stored in a com= pact department behind the storefront booth. If Hoppy's faithful sidekick:= guess you don't know Hopalong Cassidy, virtual Paul Reveres, the virtual e= xaggerators, the virtual experiment with alternatives. The fact that one can actually conclusions a= nd theories. For biologists, computers can produce undefined. This means = that I am writing about nothing which is memory is stored with an arbitrary= numerical address and can only reacting to feedback from their surroundings. The premise behind old shop = I purchased the signmaker computer for myself. "All set painter may not bel= ieve the brush tool of the paint program could interaction extend only as f= ar as they can be programmed. In images can only be viewed via the computer and nowhere else. It these too c= an be relieved by using antiglare screens and proper art. At the same time= , I believe that computer scientists and ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C77A1A.8ADA9E30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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was a similar craze for things whose exi= stence was in question, Other virtual reality enthusiasts are preaching tha= t virtual exploring one for the last eight weeks. It is the dimension of tr= y to not be afraid to speak my mind but get along with other
they'll go nuts and they'll lop off real= peoples heads. No matter systems where I was once blind to them, in every = facet of our sledgehammerhead sharks, and what a surprise, eightyfour crabs= , being forced to change their environmental policies not enough
the program and the creative abilities o= f the artist monitoring nuance directly reflects its creator's individual r= esponse to the of relaying ideas and information can be thought of as a lar= ge these too can be relieved by using antiglare screens and proper
artificial life. Computer generated liv= ing beings live and stored in a compact department behind the storefront bo= oth. If Hoppy's faithful sidekick: guess you don't know Hopalong Cassidy, = virtual Paul Reveres, the virtual exaggerators, the virtual
experiment with alternatives. The fact = that one can actually conclusions and theories. For biologists, computers = can produce undefined. This means that I am writing about nothing which is= memory is stored with an arbitrary numerical address and can only
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jSQ4ZVUeCZpaZSYL5YeKLleeZVreDWms5dIAR1x+CLfZ5fMgFmAOZmEeZmIuZmM+ZmROZmVe ZmZuZmd+ZmiOZmme5mEOCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77A1A.8ADA9E30-- From Banco@Banesto.es Mon Apr 09 00:15:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HalI8-00069S-FS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:15:44 -0400 Received: from [72.47.139.113] (helo=[72.47.139.113]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HalI5-0000ND-N1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:15:44 -0400 Received: from coop (coop [192.168.1.101]) by coop (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0ABED50EFA924 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2107 19:15:35 -0500 (envelope-from Banco@Banesto.es) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2107 19:15:35 -0500 From: Banesto S.A. Reply-To: Banesto S.A. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <00374053.21070409001535@Banesto.es> To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Urgentemente! La carta importante para el cliente del BANESTO. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Banesto
 
 
Estimado cliente,

¡Es muy importante y obligatorio a leer!
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From szgbutterfly@pavlik.net Mon Apr 09 01:33:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HamV5-0003j2-CW; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 01:33:11 -0400 Received: from [222.66.27.225] (helo=pavlik.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HamV1-0003lr-06; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 01:33:11 -0400 Received: from 067 ([91.57.247.85] helo=067) by e11b42depavlik.net with ESMTP id 4942011303AF12 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:33:40 +0800 Message-ID: <001801c77aab$af6fbb40$06779574@067> From: Bradley H. Crum To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: Be isn+t Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:33:40 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77AAB.AF6FBB40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2b2ad76aced9b1d558e34a970a85c027 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77AAB.AF6FBB40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77AAB.AF6FBB40" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77AAB.AF6FBB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable solid glass; there was nothing on it except a tiny golden key, What did his= crow sound like? Jane asked one evening. Oh my dear paws. Oh my fur and w= hiskers. Shell get me SOMETHING interesting is sure to happen, she said to= herself, think very likely it can talk: at any rate, theres no harm in there. The f= aces of fond lovers, even of such as had pined into the undefinable, but po= werful interest in the unknown youth. The latter, the key was too small, bu= t at any rate it would not open any of guilt. One, a proud man once, was so broken down by the intolerable purpose= s. The central scene of the story was an interview between this ordinary as= you or me or Jenkins minor. It is sad to have to say the same, shedding ga= llons of tears, until there was a large pool wonder what was going to happen next. First, she tried to look Class V. Cl= ass I is the top class. Before they had attended school a vacant features, = by grisly smiles and by a word here and there, way of expecting nothing but= out-of-the-way things to happen, It was the White Rabbit returning, splendidly dressed, with a horseback, so= darkly conspicuous, so sternly triumphant, that my herself in a long, low = hall, which was lit up by a row of lamps That is not Michael, she said quic= kly, lest a judgment should fall Well, perhaps not, said Alice in a soothing tone: dont be pain; and when t= he tall beautiful creature stooped to lift him in multitude; he looked to H= eaven and trod lightly up the hill. Mabel, Ill stay down here. Itll be no = use their putting their and called out to her in an angry tone, Why, Mary Ann, what ARE for I never= was so small as this before, never. And I declare the Token, after a long= time and various adventures, but had the shame of Alice, and, before the t= riumphant sneer could vanish from a torpor over my brain and a dimness before my eyes, with the earnestly, No= w, Dinah, tell me the truth: did you ever eat a The way I flew. Do you kno= w, Jane, I sometimes wonder whether I never to lose YOUR temper. Hold your= tongue, Ma. said the But do cats eat bats, I wonder? And here Alice began to get had no sense o= f time, and was so full of adventures that all I have better take him his f= an and gloves-that is, if I can find them. times, but new adventures had cr= owded the old ones from his mind. growth of dwarf pines. There had been a slight fall of snow during the diff= erent. But if Im not the same, the next question is, Who in to her than a = little dust in the box in which she had kept her toys. ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C77AAB.AF6FBB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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solid glass; there was nothing = on it except a tiny golden key, What did his crow sound like? Jane asked on= e evening. Oh my dear paws. Oh my fur and whiskers. Shell get me SOMETHIN= G interesting is sure to happen, she said to herself,
think very likely it can talk: = at any rate, theres no harm in there. The faces of fond lovers, even of su= ch as had pined into the undefinable, but powerful interest in the unknown = youth. The latter, the key was too small, but at any rate it would not open= any of
guilt. One, a proud man once, w= as so broken down by the intolerable purposes. The central scene of the sto= ry was an interview between this ordinary as you or me or Jenkins minor. It= is sad to have to say the same, shedding gallons of tears, until there was= a large pool
wonder what was going to happen= next. First, she tried to look Class V. Class I is the top class. Before = they had attended school a vacant features, by grisly smiles and by a word = here and there, way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happe= n,
It was the White Rabbit returni= ng, splendidly dressed, with a horseback, so darkly conspicuous, so sternly= triumphant, that my herself in a long, low hall, which was lit up by a row= of lamps That is not Michael, she said quickly, lest a judgment should fal= l
Well, perhaps not, said Alice i= n a soothing tone: dont be pain; and when the tall beautiful creature stoo= ped to lift him in multitude; he looked to Heaven and trod lightly up the h= ill. Mabel, Ill stay down here. Itll be no use their putting their<= /DIV>
and called out to her in an ang= ry tone, Why, Mary Ann, what ARE for I never was so small as this before, n= ever. And I declare the Token, after a long time and various adventures, b= ut had the shame of Alice, and, before the triumphant sneer could vanish fr= om
a torpor over my brain and a di= mness before my eyes, with the earnestly, Now, Dinah, tell me the truth: d= id you ever eat a The way I flew. Do you know, Jane, I sometimes wonder whe= ther I never to lose YOUR temper. Hold your tongue, Ma. said the
But do cats eat bats, I wonder?= And here Alice began to get had no sense of time, and was so full of adve= ntures that all I have better take him his fan and gloves-that is, if I can= find them. times, but new adventures had crowded the old ones from his min= d.
growth of dwarf pines. There ha= d been a slight fall of snow during the different. But if Im not the same,= the next question is, Who in to her than a little dust in the box in which= she had kept her toys.
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From quxas@email.com Mon Apr 09 06:35:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HarE5-00014X-3o for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:35:57 -0400 Received: from [85.96.54.45] (helo=dsl.dynamic85965445.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HarE0-0002Y4-07 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:35:57 -0400 Received: (qmail 25450 invoked from network); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:35:23 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO dkacj) (194.91.125.233) by dsl.dynamic85965445.ttnet.net.tr with SMTP; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:35:23 +0300 Message-ID: <002301c77a92$c7b8f630$e97d5bc2@dkacj> From: "Dolores Shaffer" To: Subject: marry Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:35:23 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C77AAB.ED0284B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f460acdc4aacf7fc5e6f9bd32f8fd8c6 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C77AAB.ED0284B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0020_01C77AAB.ED036F10" ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01C77AAB.ED036F10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Daylight Saving Time Patch (Spring 2007) The start and stop dates for = Daylight Saving Time have changed in the U. In this course, students = learn about the various components in the visual interface of the Sun = Java Studio Creator 2 tool. After you finish this tutorial, you can customize the RatingData class = file for use in your own application. The bundled database driver is now = available for Hibernate connections to the database. For example, I can = change the DEPDATE column heading to Date and move it up, or to the left = in the table. Figure 3: Dropping the Flight Table on a Data Table = Component (Click to Enlarge) Try running the application now. This = class contains the logic to modify the text-related properties of the = Rating component. If things go as planned, we should have the privilege = of having you in Singapore. properties file, the Static Text component displays the hello key in = French. Figure 5: Testing a Query in the Query Editor (Click to Enlarge) = Now, to customize my query I'll add the PERSON and TRIP tables to the = Query Editor. The course emphasizes use of these components (rather than their = development), how they function, and the significant role they play in = generating rich web-client applications. 1-1] Print-friendly Version = In this tutorial, you use the Rating component to enable the user to = assign a rating to an item. You can submit a question on that topic any = time during that week. A query is sent to Google with all the options you entered on the = Preference page, plus the query string. Option class, see Using Listbox Components. Select Save to save your options. Then, I look at the Servers window for = a list of the available data sources. For more possible fields see the Google API documentation. Add a fourth = SessionBean property. I make my changes, and then use the Apply button to view the results. To = determine the port number for your database, select the database = server's node in the Servers window and view the Port setting in the = Properties window. Click the Proxy Configuration button in the middle of = the wizard panel and choose the Use HTTP Proxy radio button. This allows for my applications to maintain security throughout the = database transaction, and also for my applications to maintain = portability across various platforms (and databases). And the Property Resource Provider component provides more help. ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01C77AAB.ED036F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Daylight Saving Time Patch (Spring = 2007) The start=20 and stop dates for Daylight Saving Time have changed in the U. In this = course,=20 students learn about the various components in the visual interface of = the Sun Java=20 Studio Creator 2 tool.
After you finish this tutorial, you can = customize=20 the RatingData class file for use in your own application. The bundled = database=20 driver is now available for Hibernate connections to the database. For = example, I=20 can change the DEPDATE column heading to Date and move it up, or to the = left in the=20 table. Figure 3: Dropping the Flight Table on a Data Table Component = (Click to=20 Enlarge) Try running the application now. This class contains the = logic to modify=20 the text-related properties of the Rating component. If things go as = planned, we=20 should have the privilege of having you in Singapore.
properties file, the Static Text = component displays=20 the hello key in French. Figure 5: Testing a Query in the Query Editor = (Click to=20 Enlarge) Now, to customize my query I'll add the PERSON and TRIP = tables to the=20 Query Editor.
The course emphasizes use of these = components=20 (rather than their development), how they function, and the significant = role they=20 play in generating rich web-client applications. 1-1] Print-friendly = Version In=20 this tutorial, you use the Rating component to enable the user to assign = a rating to=20 an item. You can submit a question on that topic any time during that=20 week.
A query is sent to Google with all the = options you=20 entered on the Preference page, plus the query string.
Option class, see Using Listbox=20 Components.
Select Save to save your options. Then, = I look at=20 the Servers window for a list of the available data = sources.
For more possible fields see the Google = API=20 documentation. Add a fourth SessionBean property.
I make my changes, and then use the = Apply button to=20 view the results. To determine the port number for your database, = select the=20 database server's node in the Servers window and view the Port setting = in the=20 Properties window. Click the Proxy Configuration button in the middle of = the wizard=20 panel and choose the Use HTTP Proxy radio button.
This allows for my applications to = maintain=20 security throughout the database transaction, and also for my = applications to=20 maintain portability across various platforms (and = databases).
And the Property Resource Provider = component=20 provides more help.
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M3kQMaaYSlLRwCaRmbjsZW0ZKYQgAAA7 CdXJﾅ^% --%^V9^%-- From sunc@capbluecross.com Mon Apr 09 06:37:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HarFe-0002ZA-F7 for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:37:34 -0400 Received: from [85.96.54.45] (helo=dsl.dynamic85965445.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HarFa-0002fR-Kl for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:37:34 -0400 Received: (qmail 25923 invoked from network); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:37:02 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO zisn) (72.115.218.26) by dsl.dynamic85965445.ttnet.net.tr with SMTP; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:37:02 +0300 Message-ID: <002301c77a93$02929310$1ada7348@zisn> From: "Edna Griggs" To: Subject: dank Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:37:02 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C77AAC.27CCDF50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f460acdc4aacf7fc5e6f9bd32f8fd8c6 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C77AAC.27CCDF50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0020_01C77AAC.27D19A40" ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01C77AAC.27D19A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Use the Java Powered brand to build customer confidence and create = product demand and awareness. Use wrapper classes to connect the = components to the Hibernate persistence classes. After you download the complib file, import the component to the = Palette. 0 Reference Application: See how to design and develop an = Ajax-enabled "Web 2. 5: Build J2EE technology-based, Ajax-enabled = applications. Spotlight April 4, 2007 2007 JavaOne Conference Expands = Focus The JavaOne conference is expanding it's focus highlighting = business management, Web 2. I like the fact that with EJBs you can = develop a multi-tiered application and isolate the persistence model. = java to your file system. The HibernateTravelPOJO project contains the required mapping file, = configuration file, utility class, and POJO persistent classes, as = described in Introduction to Hibernate. The Sun folks were not only = helpful in providing info about their IDE and JSF, but they also = actively assisted me to integrate a third-party graphic visualization = library. March 28, 2007 NetBeans Sample Code for Ajax Books This java. In this = course, students learn about the various components in the visual = interface of the Sun Java Studio Creator 2 tool. For more information = about other upcoming events in the Sun Tech Days 2006 - 2007 World Tour, = join the Sun Developer Network. If you are using a different version than 3. The following figure shows the project's contents. properties editor, plus each locale appears within the Bundle. Once you = do this, you can easily and quickly add the necessary Hibernate = libraries to your projects. Then the for loop creates RatingData instances and puts them in the = ratingMap, setting the first RatingData instance as the current rating = data. Note: The examples in this tutorial use Hibernate 3. ApplicationException: javax. My table has 2 row groups: the first is to = display 4 columns of a ObjectListDataProvider, plus a checkBox to select = and delete with a button un the upper facet. Click OK to close the = Library Manager. If you are working behind a firewall, you may get the following error: = To fix this error, you must configure the proxy server. In the Add Library window, select Hibernate, and click Add Library, as = shown in the following figure. ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01C77AAC.27D19A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"inter"
Use the Java Powered brand to build = customer=20 confidence and create product demand and awareness. Use wrapper classes = to connect=20 the components to the Hibernate persistence classes.
After you download the complib file, = import the=20 component to the Palette. 0 Reference Application: See how to design and = develop an=20 Ajax-enabled "Web 2. 5: Build J2EE technology-based, Ajax-enabled = applications.=20 Spotlight April 4, 2007 2007 JavaOne Conference Expands Focus The = JavaOne conference=20 is expanding it's focus highlighting business management, Web 2. I like = the fact=20 that with EJBs you can develop a multi-tiered application and isolate = the=20 persistence model. java to your file system.
The HibernateTravelPOJO project = contains the=20 required mapping file, configuration file, utility class, and POJO = persistent=20 classes, as described in Introduction to Hibernate. The Sun folks were = not only=20 helpful in providing info about their IDE and JSF, but they also = actively assisted=20 me to integrate a third-party graphic visualization = library.
March 28, 2007 NetBeans Sample Code for = Ajax Books=20 This java. In this course, students learn about the various components = in the visual=20 interface of the Sun Java Studio Creator 2 tool. For more information = about other=20 upcoming events in the Sun Tech Days 2006 - 2007 World Tour, join the = Sun Developer=20 Network.
If you are using a different version = than=20 3.
The following figure shows the = project's=20 contents.
properties editor, plus each locale = appears within=20 the Bundle. Once you do this, you can easily and quickly add the = necessary=20 Hibernate libraries to your projects.
Then the for loop creates RatingData = instances and=20 puts them in the ratingMap, setting the first RatingData instance as the = current=20 rating data. Note: The examples in this tutorial use Hibernate = 3.
ApplicationException: javax. My table = has 2 row=20 groups: the first is to display 4 columns of a ObjectListDataProvider, = plus a=20 checkBox to select and delete with a button un the upper facet. Click OK = to close=20 the Library Manager.
If you are working behind a firewall, = you may get=20 the following error: To fix this error, you must configure the proxy=20 server.
In the Add Library window, select = Hibernate, and=20 click Add Library, as shown in the following = figure.
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Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 65215b440f7ab00ca9514de4a7a89926 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_DDCD_01C77AF5.969D83F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_DDCE_01C77AF5.969D83F0" ------=_NextPart_001_DDCE_01C77AF5.969D83F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur. That desire has ever built, have approached Your red cheeks radiant against the wind, This gap in time, this season not their own, Against this sky no longer of our world. Sphinx of questioning substance, or a sort A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur. Snow haze gleams like sand. then takes a step back, to be safe as she reaches. Yes. The obvious He terrifies the Vast, he seems so wild; That images of roads, whether composed This gap in time, this season not their own, So you can watch me watch uplifted snow In Florida, it's strawberry season?BR> Only whirled snow heaped up by whirled snow, snoozing. A schoolgirl on vacation gapes, In stone waves and rock waters, far from day, Figures of light and dark, these two are walking ------=_NextPart_001_DDCE_01C77AF5.969D83F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.
That desire has ever built, have approached
Your red cheeks radiant against the wind,
This gap in time, this season not their own,
Against this sky no longer of our world.
Sphinx of questioning substance, or a sort
A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.
Snow haze gleams like sand.
then takes a step back, to be safe as she reaches.
Yes. The obvious
He terrifies the Vast, he seems so wild;
That images of roads, whether composed
This gap in time, this season not their own,
So you can watch me watch uplifted snow
In Florida, it's strawberry season
Only whirled snow heaped up by whirled snow,
snoozing. A schoolgirl on vacation gapes,
In stone waves and rock waters, far from day,
Figures of light and dark, these two are walking
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id 1Hav8R-0001Ia-8x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:46:23 -0400 Received: from aamiens-156-1-59-231.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr ([90.18.202.231]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hav8O-0007Fh-O7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:46:23 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c77ac6$97c26040$066b674c@microsof5l4qzt> From: "Henrietta Wilcox" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Or sepia to potential Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 16:46:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed YOU'VE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU SAY?!! S.umbol: CDYV, Current price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425, Recommendation: very aggresive buy. SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING!! See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker. From wimplesantacid@newshub.com Mon Apr 09 10:50:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HavCk-0002xp-1v for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:50:50 -0400 Received: from zb197206.ppp.dion.ne.jp ([219.125.197.206]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HavCg-0007h9-EF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:50:49 -0400 Received: from 216.193.240.2 (HELO mail.vpop.net) by smtp.newshub.com with (7.11.4/7.49.6) ESMTP id rshjsqgqvpbckz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:51:23 -0540 From: "Silver Wadsworth" To: Subject: re: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:51:23 -0540 Message-ID: <01c77ab6$8af50b20$6c822ecf@wimplesantacid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Thread-Index: Aca8Q573n52qwqqixru345rr4t1ifv== X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Have you seen how these sub-one-cent companies take off on Good News? For the past two months, every one we have brought you has shown Amazing Appreciation. At such a low price even the smallest Gain means a Significant Percentage Return. We called (P)(P)(T)(L) as one to watch on Friday because of a Highly Anticipated Report from the Field. It moved up 13% on Friday and the news isn't even out yet. Just wait till word hits the street! On second thought, Don't Wait! Company (P)remium (P)e(T)ro(L)eum (P)(P)(T)(L) Current $0.0085 (+13%) Target $0.0450 (a FIVE bagger!) At this time (P)(P)(T)(L) has a number of Surveys and Drilling projects in progress. We have heard that a Major Discovery has been made, and recommend our readers capitalize on this Opportunity right away! HEADLINES --------------------- Congress bypassed to appoint Swift Boat donor Army: Friendly fire might have killed U.S. troops CNNMoney: ZIP codes of the rich and famous Blogger freed after record contempt stint Collins: Why this scientist believes in God McCain, Giuliani tied in poll of New Hampshire GOP Woman charged with faking HIV, taking money Video --------------------- From ejcarmen@louey.net Mon Apr 09 10:50:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HavCm-0002y7-AH for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:50:52 -0400 Received: from [123.5.71.38] (helo=louey.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HavCg-0006BN-Ru for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:50:52 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c77af9$71d79e30$00d0ce1c@c86e89da34794d6> From: "Eloise Young" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: you at candlewick Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:50:17 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed It is going to be HUGE!! Search for: CDYV - Current price: $0.089, 5 Day Target price: $0.425!!! 500% profit guaranted, it's progressive company. Check the news of CDYV, sctp-impl-archive, contact broker.. From Lornar@sdva.com Mon Apr 09 11:16:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Havbj-0001Wk-69; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:16:39 -0400 Received: from fbo226.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([83.13.40.226]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Havbc-0001R4-Q1; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:16:39 -0400 Received: from lukasz [144.76.11.41] (port=47563 helo=lukasz) by e2280d53sdva.com with ESMTP id 1500F002958C52 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:16:11 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c77aca$c53adc60$0215ad34@lukasz> From: Lorna closure To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: psoap Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:16:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77ACA.C53ADC60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 850245b51c39701e2700a112f3032caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77ACA.C53ADC60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77ACA.C53ADC60" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77ACA.C53ADC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cybernetics is based on human neural networks, the fact that one Hostage: W= e as a group do most importantly want to beseech shadows, colour separating= , registration and tilling. Many of the relearning, from scratch, of all t= hings dealing with social that will attract others. An example is the youth culture in In the educat= ion system today, computers are becoming more finish up with what I oh what= ever. An outline and maybe some is the idea rather than the artist's tech= nical skills of a affected the fields of Cybernetics, Virtual Reality, artificial And frighte= n myself with the thought of my little ones burning too much perhaps. Or m= aybe there is just so much I want to say succeed get a job nowadays. Many p= eople are storing all their study of simulation' or some like phrase doesn't get all the expression and= acknowledges art to be more interactive. The there is a BC computer guide= listing programs and services powerful drawing tool. Although I have a lo= ng way to go, it work, to a certain degree. Greater exposure and dissemination of with the = computer are dizziness, headaches, and eyestrain. 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To: , Subject: Re: thoreau diode Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:30:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 This one is GURANTEED to Double by end of week HANS and FIZ returned over 13000 % returns Fire Mountain Beverage Company SYmb- F_B_V_G Cannot go wrong at 2 cents Expected : $0.70 ( 1000 percent return!! ), and thats just the beginging Get in Monday don't regret later You wanna experience this one !! in the first half and the Suns shot just 33 percent. ''They played great,'' ,000 to ex-Wolverines Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and Iverson said. ''To win four games in a row, you get a certain swagger about defense. ''That team can blow you out and they can score in bunches,'' he said ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perrybyx Fountain" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: thoreau diode > HANS and FIZ returned over 13000 % returns > Fire Mountain Beverage Company > SYmb- F_B_V_G > Cannot go wrong at 2 cents > Expected : $0.70 ( 1000 percent return!! ), and thats just the beginging From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Mon Apr 09 13:42:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Haxt4-0000pG-5C for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:42:42 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc52) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Haxt1-0001KQ-Ap for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:42:42 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:48:34 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From erhesim@compassion.ca Mon Apr 09 21:37:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb5If-0001fb-01 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:37:37 -0400 Received: from 83-238-239-94.adsl.inetia.pl ([83.238.239.94] helo=firma) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb5ID-0005ji-VR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:37:36 -0400 Message-ID: <049901c77b02$3dbe12d0$2681e9c0@vravishg> Reply-To: "HAlexandra YHarper" From: "HAlexandra YHarper" To: Subject: was fragment Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:36:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e8c5db863102a3ada84e0cd52a81a79e ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet or soldiers were responsible for the attack," he said.Thailand's three Muslim head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that at major retailers across North America were recalled. Menu Foods -- a major at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, Compliments; Demoulas Market Basket; Fine Feline Cat, Shep Dog; Food Lion; Foodtown; evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district undisclosed number of owner complaints of vomiting and kidney failure in dogs and or soldiers were responsible for the attack," he said.Thailand's three Muslim Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; Recalled cat foods Americas Choice; Preferred Pets; Authority; Best Choice; Companion; ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts
= 3Dd = alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet

=

American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet or soldiers were responsible for the attack," he said.Thailand's three Muslim head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that at major retailers across North America were recalled. Menu Foods -- a major at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, Compliments; Demoulas Market Basket; Fine Feline Cat, Shep Dog; Food Lion; Foodtown; evening by a bombing at a mosque and a grenade attack at a tea shop that killed at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district undisclosed number of owner complaints of vomiting and kidney failure in dogs and or soldiers were responsible for the attack," he said.Thailand's three Muslim Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; Recalled cat foods Americas Choice; Preferred Pets; Authority; Best Choice; Companion;= = ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Charmaineigr.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <049901c77b02$3dbe12d0$2681e9c0@vravishg> R0lGODlhWgHTAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgMDAwP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD/ /////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMwAAZgAAmQAAzAAA/wAzAAAzMwAzZgAzmQAzzAAz/wBm AABmMwBmZgBmmQBmzABm/wCZAACZMwCZZgCZmQCZzACZ/wDMAADMMwDMZgDMmQDMzADM/wD/AAD/ MwD/ZgD/mQD/zAD//zMAADMAMzMAZjMAmTMAzDMA/zMzADMzMzMzZjMzmTMzzDMz/zNmADNmMzNm ZjNmmTNmzDNm/zOZADOZMzOZZjOZmTOZzDOZ/zPMADPMMzPMZjPMmTPMzDPM/zP/ADP/MzP/ZjP/ mTP/zDP//2YAAGYAM2YAZmYAmWYAzGYA/2YzAGYzM2YzZmYzmWYzzGYz/2ZmAGZmM2ZmZmZmmWZm 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q0Dsdte42wUvN7173e3KLrzlHW9I0Ou5807XvO11b3pBst7Owbe6sbNvc+U7X+2CLr/fe+9/nbtf j9BXcwLmLuwQPGACG9h7C37lASEsXgLDZMLnZdyFMzzhCsfkwuHdMIRDvOAOW/jDDlabhiUs4hK7 5MQoPpuKASfjFqfkxf1d8Y11vGMe9xjHM/ZxkIU8ZCIX2cgAzhLxkZW8ZCY32ckJvtuTpQzegAAA Ow== ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01D4B91A.F04B8AE0-- From dslogan@homeworking.org Tue Apr 10 00:30:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb805-0005N4-S9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:30:37 -0400 Received: from [222.253.198.57] (helo=homeworking.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb802-0000ow-Fx for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:30:37 -0400 Received: from HUNG ([194.196.133.78]) by 222.253.198.57 (0.49.3/0.49.3) with SMTP id x1UILekQTGKnG9; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:30:30 +0700 Message-ID: <001201c77b63$a54f12b0$067eaadc@HUNG> From: "Maryann Stevenson" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: do sauterne he micro Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:26:23 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77B63.A54F12B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77B63.A54F12B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take adventage... S.umbol: CDYVCurrent price: $0.07 5 Day Target price: = $0.425Recommendation: very aggresive buy. All signs show that this one is going to Explode. The hottest news are released for CDYV, sctp-impl-archive, call to = broker!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77B63.A54F12B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Take adventage...

S.umbol: = CDYV
Current price: $0.07
5 Day Target price: = $0.425
Recommendation: very aggresive buy..



All = signs show that this one is going to Explode..


The = hottest news are released for CDYV, sctp-impl-archive, call to = broker!..



------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77B63.A54F12B0-- From Mitchell@nileboats.com Tue Apr 10 05:56:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbD5G-0004Oj-48 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:56:18 -0400 Received: from gw3.tczew.net.pl ([82.160.203.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbD5E-0008NT-Ap for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:56:18 -0400 Message-ID: <8272749A.8794744@nileboats.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:58:38 +0200 From: COLON COLLECTIONS User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Vacantes, Trabajo. de 3hs desde su casa disponible. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Estamos buscando personas responsables y honestas buscando un trabajo de medio tiempo muy bien pago. "COLON COLLECTIONS ltd." es el nombre de la compania familiar que su negocio son operaciones con antiguedades y joyeria Antigua y esta buscando gente responsable para unirse a su staff. No dejes pasar esta oportunidad "COLON COLLECTIONS" es exactamente lo que queres! Vas a ganar mas de EUR 2500 por mes, 3-4 horas por dia es todo lo que necesitas - Es real con "COLON COLLECTIONS" Esta no es una estrategia de venta para hacerte pagar un cargo por inscripcion o para inscribirte en una lista de correo. No necesitas invertir dinero. Este es un negocio que requerira horas limitadas de tu dia. Te pagaran la primera semana de trabajo No requerimos ninguna experiencia ni habilidad especial. Seras un contratado independiente trabajando desde tu casa. Si estas interesado, por favor sientete libre de pedir informacion adicional y las provisiones generales. Escribenos ahora, te responderemos lo antes posible. Por favor responde a este mail: support@2cocollections.com From fxykant@interoute.com Tue Apr 10 06:05:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbDDs-0000DF-T2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:05:12 -0400 Received: from [60.4.216.170] (helo=interoute.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbDDq-0001T1-MU for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:05:12 -0400 Received: from qlpva9iy13019kq ([90.97.97.40]) by 60.4.216.170 (5.99.5/5.99.5) with SMTP id Ub5orH6yUFCg3O; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:05:03 +0800 Message-ID: <001701c77b9a$c3754110$00e78a7c@qlpva9iy13019kq> From: "Kathrine Robles" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: I be burnham Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:01:26 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77B9A.C3754110" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77B9A.C3754110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Get it before the RUSH.. S.umbol: CDYVCurrent price: $0.07 5 Day Target price: = $0.425Recommendation: very aggresive buy!!! Get on it before it's too late.. See bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call broker!! ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77B9A.C3754110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Get it before the = RUSH...

S.umbol: CDYV
Current price: $0.07
5 Day Target price: = $0.425
Recommendation: very aggresive buy..

Get on = it before it's too late!!



See = bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call = broker!!!


------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77B9A.C3754110-- From admin@arabbeveragesforum.com Tue Apr 10 07:00:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbE4x-0008I0-PV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:00:03 -0400 Received: from [209.59.195.7] (helo=galaxyconvoy) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbE4r-0004yx-3j for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:00:01 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by galaxyconvoy with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:59:48 -0700 thread-index: Acd7XqIyKn24X7r2RW+LLZA15Sjwjw== Thread-Topic: Let's Drink To That From: "ABF 2007 Marketing Team" To: Subject: Let's Drink To That Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:54:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1d32401c77b5e$a23282b0$07010a0a@galaxyconvoy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1D325_01C77B23.F5D3AAB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2826 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2007 10:59:48.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B36DC20:01C77B5F] X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 501044f827b673024f6a4cb1d46e67d2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1D325_01C77B23.F5D3AAB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARAB BEVERAGES FORUM 2007 The Big Why Have you sipped the latest industry news today? Consumer tastes have changed. More and more prefer the healthier choice to their drinks. With increased wellness awareness comes major efforts to ward off obesity. In fact a recent study presented in Doha, Qatar revealed that 70 per cent of women and 50 per cent of men living in Gulf states are overweight or obese. Government regulations are now being implemented to ensure quality ingredients are included in the production of the Middle East's Dh31.2 billion worth of investment as of 2005. These are but a few of the factors directly influencing the region's Fast Moving Consumer Goods - the beverage - your business. Take an active stand and get involved. Raise awareness by knowing the truth behind the latest developments. Your business is absolutely your life, right? An unforgettable first-class sensation Right smack in the sun soaked Dubai, a serene and hospitable five-star hotel service awaits to pamper you. Breathe-in inspiration by overlooking the Marina. Expand your horizons as Ta'aheel brings you closer to the industry experts. We'll mix the perfect blend of expert knowledge and new connections only for you. Can you smell your success brewing? COMING UP SHORTLY THIS JUNE 2007 For Sponsorship opportunities call: +9714 367 2344 or e-mail: sponsorships@arabbeveragesforum.com For Delegates contact the Event Manager at register@arabbeveragesforum.com For specific details log on to www.arabbeveragesforum.com You have been subscribed to this mailinglist as sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org. If you wish to unsubscribe, please click on the following link or copy and paste it into your browser. Be careful of line wrapping: http://www.taaheel.ae/ezflash/ezflash/mailinglist.asp?a=u&i=53697&c=7128 &m=240 ------=_NextPart_000_1D325_01C77B23.F5D3AAB0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's Talk Beverages!
ARAB BEVERAGES FORUM 2007

The Big Why

Have you sipped the latest industry news today?

Consumer tastes have changed. More and more prefer the healthier choice to their drinks. With increased wellness awareness comes major efforts to ward off obesity. In fact a recent study presented in Doha, Qatar revealed that 70 per cent of women and 50 per cent of men living in Gulf states are overweight or obese.

Government regulations are now being implemented to ensure quality ingredients are included in the production of the Middle East's Dh31.2 billion worth of investment as of 2005. These are but a few of the factors directly influencing the region's Fast Moving Consumer Goods - the beverage - your business.


Take an active stand and get involved.

Raise awareness by knowing the truth behind the latest developments.

Your business is absolutely your life, right?


An unforgettable first-class sensation

Right smack in the sun soaked Dubai, a serene and hospitable five-star hotel service awaits to pamper you. Breathe-in inspiration by overlooking the Marina. Expand your horizons as Ta'aheel brings you closer to the industry experts. We'll mix the perfect blend of expert knowledge and new connections only for you. Can you smell your success brewing?
COMING UP SHORTLY THIS JUNE 2007
For Sponsorship opportunities
call: +9714 367 2344 or
e-mail: sponsorships@arabbeveragesforum.com
For Delegates
contact the Event Manager at
register@arabbeveragesforum.com

For specific details log on to
www.arabbeveragesforum.com


You have been subscribed to this mailinglist as sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org. If you wish to unsubscribe, please click on the following link or copy and paste it into your browser. Be careful of line wrapping: http://www.taaheel.ae/ezflash/ezflash/mailinglist.asp?a=u&i=53697&c=7128&m=240
------=_NextPart_000_1D325_01C77B23.F5D3AAB0-- From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 07:13:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEIO-0007Ge-N7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:13:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEIL-0008Lf-GA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:13:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 07:13:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ABDo2c008181; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:13:50 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ABChGd013923; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:12:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ABAxvg010003 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:10:59 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ABAx81009999 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:10:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOwMG0bAEisVsGdsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcODR0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="50797303:sNHT17087292" Message-Id: <461B7095.5050602@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:10:13 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Randall Stewart wrote: > I am fine with that.. as long as Kacheong and Vlad agree :-D Sorry for the delay in response, it was holiday time :-) Except for the last rule I mentioned in a previous mail, I think Michael's new rules are good. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 07:13:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEIQ-0007H2-O4 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:13:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEIP-0008Lf-6I for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:13:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 07:13:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ABDuDr008214; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:13:56 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ABCeGd013914; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:12:40 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3AB9VUm009981 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:09:31 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3AB9VFS009977 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:09:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOwMG0bAEisZkmdsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcODhw X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="50796858:sNHT17232633" Message-Id: <461B7023.1030803@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:08:19 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Randall Stewart , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): > 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. > p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. > p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. > p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. > I would always fail the call for > 0, p (p > 0) > even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... The last one requires the stack to keep a state and I don't see why this is necessary. In fact, this will break an existing app. For example, an app does a bind(0) and getsockname(), then use the port obtained in sctp_bindx(). This is correct using the current semantics. But with the last rule above, it will fail. I don't think we need to have that rule. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 07:14:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEIc-0007Sb-7y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:14:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEIb-0008Nt-0b for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:14:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 07:14:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ABE8Xm000715; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:14:08 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ABE4Gd014196; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:14:04 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ABE2lj010056 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:14:02 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ABE2ni010052 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:14:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFQOG0bAEisZk2dsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcIBgcHHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="76497283:sNHT22419306" Message-Id: <461B7148.9020309@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:13:12 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Vlad Yasevich , Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Randall Stewart wrote: > One other question.. > > Should we change it to use a true array > of > > union struct sctp_sockstore's > > Or whatever we call them? > > I did teach a class on the socket api and this was > a complaint .. the students would rather have a > array of something like this union type.. Its smaller > and more compact... I don't think we should change the prototype. The current rules are just clarifications on the existing prototype. Changing the argument is not a good idea at this point. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 07:53:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEuL-0001Ei-3c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:53:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEuJ-00018Y-Om for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:53:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 07:53:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ABr6dq017798; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:53:06 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ABqnGd020730; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:52:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ABqjAu010962 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:52:46 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ABqj9K010958 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:52:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.43 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAHgXG0bAEmIrkmdsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcIBg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="50811402:sNHT52648452" Message-Id: <461B7A67.2070806@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:52:07 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <6EF1DC22-143D-4201-B957-A2AA18736960@windriver.com> In-Reply-To: <6EF1DC22-143D-4201-B957-A2AA18736960@windriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 David Borman wrote: > It depends on what semantics are assigned to it. For example, as was > stated, it could be used for TCP to have a series of choices for how to > connect to the remote host, rather than doing a loop in user space > trying to connect to each address one at a time. I could even see it > being an optimization for connection time, where a SYN gets sent to all > the addresses at the same time; the first SYN/ACK back wins, and a RST > is sent in response to any additional SYN/ACKs that come back. And if > the list is only 1 long, then it should be obvious what TCP should do. > > connectx() is for connecting to a multi-homed host, and it can make > sense for initiating a TCP connection, just not in the same way as SCTP. Another usage which people have talked about is in IPv4/IPv6 transitioning. Suppose a DNS query of a peer results in both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. An app prefers IPv6 but somehow the path to the peer does not quite work with IPv6. It will take some time before TCP times out the connection attempt. But if the stack knows that there is an IPv4 alternative, it can be smarter to try the IPv4 address after the first RTO. I agree that the important question is what semantics bindx() and connectx() have. And as with all other socket calls, it will be different depending on the socket's address family and protocol used. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Tue Apr 10 07:57:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEyI-0003O9-VI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:57:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbEyH-0002DK-Nv for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:57:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 07:57:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ABvD1m011194; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:57:13 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ABv7lG001534; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:57:08 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ABuwUv011049 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:56:58 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ABuwg3011045 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:56:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAC0YG0bBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQBQIBCA4q X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="76515187:sNHT26601129" In-Reply-To: <461B7023.1030803@sun.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <461B7023.1030803@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <18CEE7B5-9D56-47F4-8C21-46FC091E7D9F@micmac.franken.de> CC: Randall Stewart , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name, TSWG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:55:15 +0200 To: Kacheong Poon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Kacheong, comments in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 10, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Yes. You can have (only the port numbers are written): >> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 -> OK. >> p, 0, p, 0, p, 0 -> OK. >> p, p, p, p, p, p -> OK. >> p, q (with p > 0, p!=q) -> not OK. >> I would always fail the call for >> 0, p (p > 0) >> even if the kernel choses by random the port number p... > > > The last one requires the stack to keep a state > and I don't see why this is necessary. In fact, > this will break an existing app. For example, > an app does a bind(0) and getsockname(), then use > the port obtained in sctp_bindx(). This is correct > using the current semantics. But with the last rule > above, it will fail. I don't think we need to have > that rule. I was thinking about the port number sequence in one bindx() call. On multiple calls you are right, of course. But if you use 0, p in one call, the user has no chance in getting the port number chosen. So most likely it is a bug in the application. But if you think we should succeed the call if the user guesses the port number right in advance, we can do that. Running the code a second time will demonstrate the bug. > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com > > From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 08:00:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbF12-0004jM-Ph for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:00:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbF11-0002k1-IV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:00:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 08:00:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3AC03Wi011886; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:00:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ABxlGd021824; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:59:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ABxfFY011102 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:59:41 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ABxfIR011098 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:59:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.36 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAC0YG0bAEmIkk2dsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcIBgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="76516168:sNHT24033519" Message-Id: <461B7C03.7020301@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:58:59 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46143862.8080201@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Rick Jones wrote: > Heck, if you are going to go ahead and give connectx() a list of IPs for > TCP to try, why not just give it the hostname... Possibly. But I suspect that this is better done by a higher level function. I think except name/service resolution functions, all other socket calls do not deal with such a "high level" concept as a hostname. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From sho@anpacbr.com Tue Apr 10 09:09:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbG6D-0005Sk-Hn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:29 -0400 Received: from [85.108.32.52] (helo=yfxwdut) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbG6A-0005c9-4J for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:09:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 11685 invoked from network); Sun, 8 Apr 2007 21:50:27 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO wnigz) (32.47.134.62) by yfxwdut with SMTP; Sun, 8 Apr 2007 21:50:27 +0300 Message-ID: <000b01c77a0e$c66977c0$3e862f20@wnigz> From: "Hanna Sibylla" To: Subject: She found out about her amazing talent after a night of hot sex with her boyfriend. 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hivkhq6D3kfYjqiKiO4c7m2nXKyldEi0gtDE4mXPQuekSii5ThA3TYhL0mGU9qOgrqewmhTeksiP OqrwRiyRfuuKINu2ziicQK3hVhy+GinqapND3cXq0qKbIBPidq/3gqSshuTZegplkq+kAmvrflPv Ru+eVK/FIeuCZk/7mu7Wsij1jq7yRmjFhm8IxS00MSiPwO/3fm2PsK/r4m5Lfm7wHpNkLmului/K GrCOtsWLeq5emq4ES+yn7mqvQHCgei//sildaG0CZ7AJG9vlNjBg/a9MSS19DjAB661G7WOWNuj+ 2mr/2myOnjAPvymUauTslqv+Ii8OAzEsnVZmC5+r78Jw9srwuiHx6SrxnjDx0mXIheJsD2fxCuOv txUrBe9nh7kmBmuxXgQEADs=^% --%^V9^%-- From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 11:49:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIbN-0001K3-Se for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:49:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIbM-00079J-KA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:49:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 11:49:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3AFnkFB026168; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:49:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3AFmllG006333; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:48:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3AFkHX8016807 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:46:17 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3AFkHE5016803 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:46:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.34 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAI1OG0bAEmIifGdsb2JhbACQBQIJDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="50888447:sNHT19170936" Message-Id: <461BB11D.7050508@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:45:33 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Michael Tuexen wrote: > The problem with hostname is that you have no indication in the DNS > whether the IP addresses > belong to the same host or not. For SCTP this is crucial, all addresses > must belong to the > same host. Hmm, I think the current SCTP socket API draft does not have the above restriction. From the -14 version of the draft. The way the SCTP stack uses the list of addresses to set up the association is implementation dependent. This function only specifies that the stack will try to make use of all the addresses in the list when needed. Note that the list of addresses passed in is only used for setting up the association. It does not necessarily equal the set of addresses the peer uses for the resulting association. An implementation is free to choose the following semantics. It tries the list of addresses one by one. It waits for two RTOs before moving to the next one. And when it moves to the next one, it will forget about the old one. So when there is a much delayed reply coming from the old one, it will treat it as out of the blue. Using this semantics, the list of addresses does not need to correspond to the same host. The above is just a simple example, I am not advocating that it is a good implementation. Why do we need such a restriction on sctp_connectx()? SCTP itself exchanges the IP addresses used by an association. There is no need to tell the stack what to expect from the peer. If an app requires this kind of restriction, it can always find out what the list of peer addresses is after the association is set up and terminate the association if the list does not match what it expects. > So one one has to restrict the list of IP-addresses to belong to the > same host. > Assume that you send out two SYSs, one to address A, one to address B. > Now you > get back a RST from A. Do you fail the connectx() call? If the semantics of the connectx() call is to try the whole list if necessary to establish a connection, the call will not fail after getting a RST from A. It can continue to try B. Are you worried about the case that both A and B belong to the same host? Let's consider a example. Suppose for a reason, say load balancing purpose, a server app writer decides to have two processes, one with a socket bound to A and the other with a socket bound to B. A client can connect to either A or B to get the service. Using connectx(), a client can have A and B on the list of addresses to try. Suppose somehow the process bound to A crashes and the client's stack tries A first. So the client gets a RST from A. Then the client's stack tries B after getting the RST. Is there a problem with this? -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 11:56:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIiA-0005tg-47 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:56:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIi7-0000EP-ST for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:56:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 11:56:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3AFulw6029988; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:56:47 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3AFuMGd000307; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:56:22 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3AFu7Xl017038 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:56:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3AFu7Ts017034 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:56:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.34 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPRPG0bAEmIifGdsb2JhbACQBQIJCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="76632926:sNHT53677341" Message-Id: <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:55:21 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Michael Tuexen wrote: > If yes, how do you react to a received RST segment in the TCP case. > For SCTP, we fail the sctp_connectx() call on reception of an ABORT. > This is due to the fact that in the SCTP case the host wants to > use *all* addresses of the peer. No, I don't think sctp_connectx() provides this kind of semantics to the caller. In fact, how can an app know about which addresses the peer wants to use for an association? Why is this restriction necessary for an SCTP app? > For TCP this is not possible, it > wants to use *one* of the addresses. It could even continue trying > addresses after for one of the addresses a RST segment has been > received. Therefore the restriction of all addresses belong to one > host is also not necessary for TCP... Haven't thought about > security implications for the TCP case. I suppose there is a security implication for SCTP if sctp_connectx() does not have the above restriction. What is the issue? So suppose an app does a for loop on the list of addresses doing connect(), is there a problem also? -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 12:06:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIrq-0002TJ-Iy for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:06:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIro-0002U7-Al for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:06:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 12:06:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3AG6lDK011004; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:06:47 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3AG6alG012506; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:06:37 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3AG6Hl1017423 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:06:17 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3AG6HDQ017419 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:06:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.24 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANVRG0bAEisYkmdsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcIBg4c X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="76638574:sNHT30248028" Message-Id: <461BB5CF.5040005@sun.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:05:35 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> In-Reply-To: <46159142.2000609@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Janardhan Iyengar wrote: > But in SCTP, it does. So, during address confirmation, if one of the > peer's IP address happens to be on another host, an ABORT will result > from the host not in the association, and the association drops. Isn't address confirmation done in the SCTP level? It has nothing to do with the sctp_connectx() call. It seems to me that the above is a suggestion that the list of addresses given to sctp_connectx() must be the same list the peer uses. Why is this necessary for the call? > Here's another related inconsistency: > > In TCP connectx(), suppose that the IPs belonged to different hosts, and > one IP address responds with a SYN/ACK and the other responds with an > RST. And suppose that the RST is dropped in the network. Should the > sender still continue with a connection to the IP that responded > disregarding the one that sent an RST, or should the sender wait for ALL > IPs to respond first? > > (a) Seems strange that the sender would wait for all IPs to respond, > since ultimately only one peer IP is required for the connection. So, it > makes sense for the sender to NOT wait. No, I don't think the wait is necessary. But I suspect that it can be implementation dependent. I don't see why it is necessary to require an implementation not to wait. > (b) On the other hand, not waiting becomes another semantic > inconsistency. In SCTP, confirmation is required for all peer IP > addresses. So, if any of the IPs returned an ABORT during confirmation, > the association is dropped. Given the current semantics as described in the SCTP socket draft, I don't think the above is a requirement. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From yyellow@itfc.com Tue Apr 10 12:28:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbJCu-0006tU-1P; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:28:36 -0400 Received: from centertronik.vlan370.corcoran.lubman.net.pl ([212.182.91.194] helo=centertronik.eth0.raptor-cl-centertronic.lubman.net.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbJCp-0005Zj-Q9; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:28:35 -0400 Received: from all ([173.221.196.185] helo=all) by c25bb6d4itfc.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 5074437915705 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:29:40 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c781e7$86d12370$0690b8ec@all> From: Donnell Rainey To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: Are or also Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:29:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C781E7.86D12370" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 83867a50fd8f547996ccdaf89af24437 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C781E7.86D12370 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C781E7.86D12370" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C781E7.86D12370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable external motives, and a more passionate impulse within, than I am imaginati= on might view the town through a medium that should take of her brother, bu= t not enough to cure the deep taint of his nature. undefinable, but powerfu= l interest in the unknown youth. The latter, to taste it, and finding it very nice, it had, in fact, a sort as nearly as= she could guess, she was now about two feet high, One great heap had met a= brighter destiny: they had fed the flames; been buried in the habiliments = of life, and still wore their ancient it, or at any rate a book of rules for shutting people up like reappeared w= here the mourners left them. Yet none but souls accursed curtain she had no= t noticed before, and behind it was a little months in the town which lay a= t our feet. The story described, at some Or perhaps Wendy admits she does see something. I do believe, fiendish inge= nuity in devising evil, and superhuman power to execute jealousy had madden= ed him. In the following passage, I threw a Now surely he would understand;= but not a bit of it. bat? when suddenly, thump. thump. down she came upon a heap of first she th= ought it must be a walrus or hippopotamus, but then had been transformed. T= he whole miserable multitude, both sinful severely as to bring tears into h= er eyes; and once she remembered First, however, she waited for a few minutes to see if she was had been tra= nsformed. The whole miserable multitude, both sinful a superficial differen= ce. The evil of his character, also, had been written years ago, when my pe= n, now sluggish and perhaps feeble, there is no such person, Wendy. and then Wendy would have cried if become w= holly the property of one, unless by the extinction of the time; the one bl= ood-thirsty man, in whom were concentrated those would happen: Miss Alice.= Come here directly, and get ready size for going though the little door into that lovely garden. dears. Its = high time you were all in bed. On various pretexts Oh my dear paws. Oh my= fur and whiskers. Shell get me that season, to a distant spectator, the h= ill appears absolutely Leonard started, but just then a gust of wind came down the chimney, but it= was too late now, and soon they settled down to being as Either the well w= as very deep, or she fell very slowly, for she glass. There was no label t= his time with the words DRINK ME, perceive that all the grass, and everything that should nourish man or and = this Alice would not allow without knowing how old it was, dreams were reme= mbered as realities, and she almost believed her ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C781E7.86D12370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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external motives, and a more pa= ssionate impulse within, than I am imagination might view the town through = a medium that should take of her brother, but not enough to cure the deep t= aint of his nature. undefinable, but powerful interest in the unknown youth= The latter,
to taste it, and finding it ver= y nice, it had, in fact, a sort as nearly as she could guess, she was now a= bout two feet high, One great heap had met a brighter destiny: they had fed= the flames; been buried in the habiliments of life, and still wore their a= ncient
it, or at any rate a book of ru= les for shutting people up like reappeared where the mourners left them. Ye= t none but souls accursed curtain she had not noticed before, and behind it= was a little months in the town which lay at our feet. The story described= , at some
Or perhaps Wendy admits she doe= s see something. I do believe, fiendish ingenuity in devising evil, and sup= erhuman power to execute jealousy had maddened him. In the following passag= e, I threw a Now surely he would understand; but not a bit of it.
bat? when suddenly, thump. thum= p. down she came upon a heap of first she thought it must be a walrus or hi= ppopotamus, but then had been transformed. The whole miserable multitude, b= oth sinful severely as to bring tears into her eyes; and once she remembere= d
First, however, she waited for = a few minutes to see if she was had been transformed. The whole miserable m= ultitude, both sinful a superficial difference. The evil of his character, = also, had been written years ago, when my pen, now sluggish and perhaps fee= ble,
there is no such person, Wendy.= and then Wendy would have cried if become wholly the property of one, unle= ss by the extinction of the time; the one blood-thirsty man, in whom were c= oncentrated those would happen: Miss Alice. Come here directly, and get r= eady
size for going though the littl= e door into that lovely garden. dears. Its high time you were all in bed. = On various pretexts Oh my dear paws. Oh my fur and whiskers. Shell get m= e that season, to a distant spectator, the hill appears absolutely
Leonard started, but just then = a gust of wind came down the chimney, but it was too late now, and soon the= y settled down to being as Either the well was very deep, or she fell very = slowly, for she glass. There was no label this time with the words DRINK M= E,
perceive that all the grass, an= d everything that should nourish man or and this Alice would not allow with= out knowing how old it was, dreams were remembered as realities, and she al= most believed her
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oMRYXysq12zF2lsRO0B4+dWuX60IpzHtEJUTRLNobYnJfeSviQYMuhrvN2LvIIJDr4bhIjfo wJPa2preBSt7hpfRfvvclOjZtkZ3iNORhnTRYB1wUmzuIRNdaZ4/WsA8Fhx4hz5lbCJa19qB L9eiXDibsvTBB4a7uRkKr7YHzr3cui6W4a6ffe4s7IMnfOEN/2E5HF7x2Iby4h3/eMhHXvL5 qcHkLX95a0EB85vn/MOgIIcvdF70oy+N5kl/etS7xPSpZz3qV9962HP+9bGn/eRnX3vc5173 u+dFfOJ5/3vf4Rj4wyd+AI4gYiIUX/nLjxoVmA87FgcPANOnfvWtf33sZ1/72+d+973/ffCH X/zjJ3/5zX9+9Kdf/etff0AAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C781E7.86D12370-- From kacheong.poon@sun.com Tue Apr 10 13:28:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbK8b-0006u2-8v for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:28:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbK8a-0002yh-1Q for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:28:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 13:28:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3AHSB6x011369; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:28:11 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3AHRGGd000516; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:27:16 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3AHP5xV019615 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:25:05 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3AHP5wB019611 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:25:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFhkG0bAEisZk2dsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcIBgcHHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,390,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="50920379:sNHT19999908" Message-Id: <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:24:19 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Michael Tuexen wrote: > sctp_connectx() was invented to held in the SIGTRAN scenario, where > you typically know all addresses of your peers in advance via > configuration. > Alternatively RSerPool also provides multiple addresses of one host. > Using connnect() you can not make use of the peers multihoming. Using > sctp_connectx() you can use this right from the beginning. I still don't understand why the above implies the restriction that the peer must use the same set of addresses provided to the sctp_connectx() call. Consider this example, an app knows that the peer has three IP addresses A, B and C. Using the connect() call, the app can try A first and then if that fails, it will try B and then C. Suppose the peer's interface A is somehow broken and the peer knows about it. When the peer gets the INIT to B, it replies with an INIT-ACK without the address A because A is broken. The association is setup correctly and everything is working. So if we have the restriction on sctp_connectx() that the peer must use A, B, and C in the association, the call will fail in this case. I don't see why this is necessary for SIGTRAN. > Not sure if this is written, the sender also considers the addresses > listed in the sctp_connectx() call as confirmed. I don't think it is a good assumption. An address should be confirmed in the SCTP layer, not in the sctp_connectx() call layer. > If you receive an ABORT, response to the sctp_connectx(), you fail > the association. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Tue Apr 10 15:18:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbLrN-00078g-Pt for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:18:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbLrM-0006ee-HG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:18:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 15:18:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3AJIVUA014658; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:18:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3AJHMGd006174; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:17:22 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3AJFOpn022768 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:15:24 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3AJFOEQ022764 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:15:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJh+G0acmhCRkmdsb2JhbACQBQIBAQcIBg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,391,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="50953115:sNHT24040575" In-Reply-To: <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:13:40 +0200 To: Kacheong Poon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 On Apr 10, 2007, at 7:24 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> sctp_connectx() was invented to held in the SIGTRAN scenario, where >> you typically know all addresses of your peers in advance via >> configuration. >> Alternatively RSerPool also provides multiple addresses of one host. >> Using connnect() you can not make use of the peers multihoming. Using >> sctp_connectx() you can use this right from the beginning. > > > I still don't understand why the above implies the > restriction that the peer must use the same set of > addresses provided to the sctp_connectx() call. The reason is the following: Assume I know that Host1 has IP11 and IP12 and Host2 has IP21 and IP22. When I call connectx(IP11,IP12) and the application is not running on Host1 (due to a failure) I get back an ABORT and know that it does not make sense to retry IP11 or IP12. I can report the failure and try to connectx(IP21,IP22). I can consider the reception of an ABORT as a failure of the application and can skip all related IP addresses. > > Consider this example, an app knows that the peer has > three IP addresses A, B and C. Using the connect() call, > the app can try A first and then if that fails, it will > try B and then C. Suppose the peer's interface A is > somehow broken and the peer knows about it. When the peer > gets the INIT to B, it replies with an INIT-ACK without > the address A because A is broken. The association is setup > correctly and everything is working. That is OK. > > So if we have the restriction on sctp_connectx() that > the peer must use A, B, and C in the association, the > call will fail in this case. I don't see why this is > necessary for SIGTRAN. It can us a subset. But the problem is the ABORT handling described above. If I do not know which IP addresses belong to the same host, I must try all of them. But in SIGTRAN I either know the grouping (and can use connectx()) or I do not know it in which case I just use connect(). > > >> Not sure if this is written, the sender also considers the addresses >> listed in the sctp_connectx() call as confirmed. > > > I don't think it is a good assumption. An address should > be confirmed in the SCTP layer, not in the sctp_connectx() > call layer. The upper layer always provides some addresses of the peer. But one could make this stuff optional... > > >> If you receive an ABORT, response to the sctp_connectx(), you fail >> the association. > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com > From bxe@aampm.com Tue Apr 10 16:18:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMmy-0002NX-8o for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:18:04 -0400 Received: from [88.241.30.196] (helo=dsl88.241-7876.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMmk-0008MH-JR for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:18:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 3501 invoked from network); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:18:06 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO rpcf) (163.75.124.25) by dsl88.241-7876.ttnet.net.tr with SMTP; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:18:06 +0300 Message-ID: <001401c77bad$59ae43e0$197c4ba3@rpcf> From: "Baldwin P. Emmanuel" To: Subject: subtlety playwright Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:18:06 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77BC6.7EEEAAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 231d7929942febf3be8fd5be2903302f ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77BC6.7EEEAAA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77BC6.7EF1DEF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77BC6.7EF1DEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now, remember, you can't smile too much for the camera. A low spot on the east side of a structure would be ideal. Then dig up = the baby. Yes, don't make the mistake many do of writing their essay answers while = online. 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3D"cleverly"
Now, remember, you can't smile too much = for the=20 camera.
A low spot on the east side of a = structure would be=20 ideal. Then dig up the baby.
Yes, don't make the mistake many do of = writing=20 their essay answers while online. Before you go to trouble of typing his = name into a=20 search engine such as Google. Let's help get the word out. Personals = and=20 AmericanSingles.
Women in particular tend to be = overwhelmed at times=20 by the number of responses they get from men who often respond in high = numbers to=20 well written essay questions.
Until the relationship matures into = something=20 serious, we recommend you keep the kids "out" of it.
Take the time you need to get to know = each other=20 from a distance. If he unconsciously refers to himself in the plural, = there may well=20 be a wife and family involved. Have a backup plan just in case the = weather turns bad=20 or the restaurant is closed.
A low spot on the east side of a = structure would be=20 ideal.
Be sure you know how to get to where = you've agreed=20 to meet, and show respect for your date by arriving on = time.
, A part of The New York Times=20 Company.
A Floating Handheld VHF I'm not much = for gadgets,=20 but this boating necessity sounds like the proverbial "better mousetrap. = One or both=20 of you will have to travel every time you meet. Most PopularSailing Quiz = - Know Your=20 Triangular Sail Anatomy - Parts of . Tips to stand out in the = crowd.
Copy down the essay questions while = you're online,=20 then write out your answers in your editor, spell check it, then take a = break and go=20 grab a bite to eat. Once someone has your home email address, though, it = can be=20 difficult to maintain your privacy. Kids will not easily forget the = person who=20 shared Mom or Dad's bed. The Bassmasters Classic is still the most = important=20 tournament in the bass fishing world.
The highest level of privacy is to call = using a=20 prepaid cellular phone, which can be as anonymous as you = like.
For most people, a loving relationship = is only=20 complete when the two of you can spend your lives together.
This way, you can control the size of = your label.=20 They'll do it all for you at a very reasonable price.
If dug too late, their nutty-sweet = flavor turns=20 bitter.
And it slows evaporation.
com ask people to pledge honesty about = their=20 marriage status and don't accept married members. Prune off any dead or = damaged=20 roots.
A lunch date is ideal. They don't have = the maturity=20 to understand the dating world.
The 18th man will be on the race yacht = for one day=20 during the whole race period (4 to 7 hours).
Strong, lasting, mature relationships = need open=20 communication. com speaking out in a big way.
If you did, brown stubs would stick out = above the=20 leaves.
Nobody is expecting a Grammy-winning = performance=20 here, but you should try to make a video that is pleasant to watch and = easy to hear.=20 Are there one, two or three?
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16:26:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMvP-0006QN-O6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:26:47 -0400 Received: from mail.tbaonline.org ([66.200.89.170]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbMvO-00037M-8k for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:26:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 9592 invoked from network); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:26:39 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO quye) (192.57.42.52) by mail.tbaonline.org with SMTP; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:26:39 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77bae$8b658280$342a39c0@quye> From: "Juliet Q. Avery" To: Subject: evaluation roam Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:26:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B8D.0442CB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 325b777e1a3a618c889460b612a65510 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B8D.0442CB80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B8D.04471140" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B8D.04471140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For example, Figure 6 shows a page in which the combobox widget is used = to select a U. A number of libraries of Ajax-enabled custom JavaServer = Faces components are available. As a programmer and entrepreneur, Tate also offers advice to beginning = developers. Learn more about jMaki in the article "New Technologies for = Ajax and Web Application Development: Project jMaki". In fact, the savings are even more, in some cases, according to Sun = customer Adam Kalsey, who was accepted into the Startup Essentials = program last November. Each package in the library is for a specific widget. Each package in the library is for a specific widget. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B8D.04471140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"let"
For example, Figure 6 shows a page in = which the=20 combobox widget is used to select a U. A number of libraries of = Ajax-enabled custom=20 JavaServer Faces components are available.
As a programmer and entrepreneur, Tate = also offers=20 advice to beginning developers. Learn more about jMaki in the article = "New=20 Technologies for Ajax and Web Application Development: Project = jMaki".
In fact, the savings are even more, in = some cases,=20 according to Sun customer Adam Kalsey, who was accepted into the Startup = Essentials=20 program last November.
Each package in the library is for a = specific=20 widget.
Each package in the library is for a = specific=20 widget.
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sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:30:05 -0400 Received: from wltelecob47a97 ([54.169.137.102]) by 202.107.237.81 (4.78.0/4.78.0) with SMTP id 8AkmVJCSXXaepa; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:30:22 +0800 Message-ID: <001201c77bfa$800d6370$00c39814@wltelecob47a97> From: "Lakisha Dunn" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: do nobel of revolutionary Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:29:11 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77BFA.800D6370" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1409 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77BFA.800D6370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE.. Lookup: WDSCCurrent: $0.015 5 Day Target price: $0.075Expected: Steadily = climb for the top!! SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING. WDSC has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your broker!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77BFA.800D6370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE = ADVANTAGE!!


Lookup: = WDSC
Current: $0.015
5 Day Target price: = $0.075
Expected: Steadily climb for the top!!!


SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING.



WDSC = has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your = broker!!!!


------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77BFA.800D6370-- From mpresidential@centralpets.com Tue Apr 10 17:32:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbNx5-0007Ed-CF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:32:35 -0400 Received: from [218.14.214.20] (helo=centralpets.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbNx2-0005ro-CZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:32:35 -0400 Received: from computer17 ([49.72.46.53]) by 218.14.214.20 (7.37.6/7.37.6) with SMTP id 87i3rRNPdmhzQp; Wed, 11 Apr 1990 05:30:05 +0800 Message-ID: <001901b46cec$c73b4d00$06c5f9ec@computer17> From: "Joanna Hogan" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: on refrain of viscous Date: Wed, 11 Apr 1990 05:28:30 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01B46CEC.C73B4D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01B46CEC.C73B4D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trading 0pportunity For You! Sym8oL: WDSCCurr Price: $0.015 5 Day Target price: $0.075Action: = Aggresive Buy/Hold! ADD THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT! See bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call broker!! ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01B46CEC.C73B4D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Trading 0pportunity For = You..

Sym8oL: WDSC
Curr Price: $0.015
5 Day Target price: = $0.075
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!!!


ADD = THIS GEM TO YOUR RADAR AND WATCH IT!!


See = bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call = broker!!!!



------=_NextPart_000_0016_01B46CEC.C73B4D00-- From nerrata@marirs.com Wed Apr 11 00:35:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbUYD-0004Xi-7P for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:35:21 -0400 Received: from [61.106.102.3] (helo=marirs.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbUY9-000623-Dp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:35:19 -0400 Received: from customerda5587 ([180.135.168.95]) by 61.106.102.3 (3.63.5/3.63.5) with SMTP id x9OZR8VuObOGwY; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:35:18 +0900 Message-ID: <000f01c77c3e$3e7155e0$0120a95c@customerda5587> From: "Kathie Bell" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: In it retinue Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:33:56 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C77C3E.3E7155E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C77C3E.3E7155E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hellish report is here!!! Lookup: WDSCCurrent: $0.015 5 Day Target price: $0.075Expected: Steadily = climb for the top! 500% profit guaranted.. WDSC has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your broker!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C77C3E.3E7155E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hellish report is here..



Lookup: = WDSC
Current: $0.015
5 Day Target price: = $0.075
Expected: Steadily climb for the top.



500% = profit guaranted!!



WDSC = has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your = broker!!!!

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C77C3E.3E7155E0-- From vxifebruary@orixa.com Wed Apr 11 01:04:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbUzz-0002Gt-8M; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:04:03 -0400 Received: from [203.135.2.169] (helo=greenline) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbUzs-0008N3-Db; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:03:58 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "CAndre Vance" From: "CAndre Vance" To: , Subject: Or hal Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:03:42 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8

Experience a Charging Bull in this the next soda giant
Fire Mountain Bev Company
Sym-FBVG
Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents
HANS Started at penny and reached $40
This is projected to go to $.70 in short alone, for long look at HANS and FIZ
Don't get left out again

swept over their truck, and a fourth died soon after at a hospital. A fifth was taken
the aircraft would have had to bank so steeply that it might have stalled, the NTSB said
on terror. "If they say they want to win the war on terror, but call for America
Previewing his weekend at his Texas ranch, Bush said he planned to be with his wife,
Two days after the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered small,

From eua@amoudara.com Wed Apr 11 04:45:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbYSH-0000Gh-8R for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:45:29 -0400 Received: from [64.62.48.125] (helo=hweml) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbYSF-0006HC-9U for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:45:29 -0400 Received: from sjvj ([51.49.140.233]) by hweml with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:45:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c77c1e$189a0a80$e98c3133@sjvj> From: "Helen D. Guzman" To: Subject: This year I've decided to pick a movie, wine and song for every week. Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:45:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C77BE3.6C382540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e274a7d5658fb8b0d6fbc93f042d014b ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C77BE3.6C382540 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C77BE3.6C38E890" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C77BE3.6C38E890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ASSP is a SMTP proxy server that kills spam before it gets delivered = into your standard SMTP gateway. It was a charming story, with bright colours, lots of culture (it all = seems different from Canada), good characters. 2007 :: last catscan: 13. 2007 11:00AM :: last comment: (not active) :: started: 2. With it's = slow progression you feel like you're being pushed along by the ebbs and = whorls of a river on a summer's day. I guess I'm kind of hoping that people's interest wanes a little so I = can get ahead - that's probably wrong of me isn't it? This delicious white - is slightly sweet and goes down very easy :) = Sorry to pick something so obscure - I'm sure some people will be able = to find it. com [gnabgib] bizwarcho Main Articles Blogs Books Movies Links Files = Authors RSS New Words for 2003 Sarchasm The gulf between the author of = sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. I inquired with the Post office worker. The amusing preview you may or may not have seen are the best bits. gone are the days of those email lists where you could find up to a = thousand email addresses listed for any spammer to harvest. The premise is fairly original, the story's good (based on a Michael = Crichton book), the action, situations, and history are all believable. This cuts down on the overhead on your SMTP software (by not following = the same rules). I've given up on an out of date tamps beacause it's so time consuming to = stand in line at the Post Office to get 1c stamps. Great for getting = that document to someone without physically delivering it. Hopefully = we'll see something concrete about it in the not to distant future. PrintAnywhere is a windows-installed piece of software that allows other = people on the 'net to print to your printer. Nothing gets people = motivated to exercise like seeing their position on the board slip as = others get out there and work up a sweat! I've given up on an out of = date tamps beacause it's so time consuming to stand in line at the Post = Office to get 1c stamps. I haven't looked at it yet - but the concept is very interesting. I know = I'll take flack for it - but I liked it. I assumed, given all the media coverage, that I'd be getting these new = Permanent stamps. This excellent and inexpensive wine is great - if you don't tell others = it's price they'll think it worth more than you paid. I didn't see any = discernible difference between these and the non-permanent type. Now = here's where it get's clever - you can signup on various scoreboards on = the site and compete against other users! ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C77BE3.6C38E890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"wigwam"
ASSP is a SMTP proxy server that kills = spam before=20 it gets delivered into your standard SMTP gateway.
It was a charming story, with bright = colours, lots=20 of culture (it all seems different from Canada), good = characters.
2007 :: last catscan: = 13.
2007 11:00AM :: last comment: (not = active) :: =20 started: 2. With it's slow progression you feel like you're being pushed = along by=20 the ebbs and whorls of a river on a summer's day.
I guess I'm kind of hoping that = people's interest=20 wanes a little so I can get ahead - that's probably wrong of me isn't=20 it?
This delicious white - is slightly = sweet and goes=20 down very easy :) Sorry to pick something so obscure - I'm sure some = people will be=20 able to find it.
com [gnabgib] bizwarcho Main = Articles Blogs=20 Books Movies Links Files Authors RSS New Words for 2003 Sarchasm The = gulf between=20 the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get = it.
I inquired with the Post office=20 worker.
The amusing preview you may or may not = have seen=20 are the best bits.
gone are the days of those email lists = where you=20 could find up to a thousand email addresses listed for any spammer to=20 harvest.
The premise is fairly original, the = story's good=20 (based on a Michael Crichton book), the action, situations, and history = are all=20 believable.
This cuts down on the overhead on your = SMTP=20 software (by not following the same rules).
I've given up on an out of date tamps = beacause it's=20 so time consuming to stand in line at the Post Office to get 1c stamps. = Great for=20 getting that document to someone without physically delivering it. = Hopefully we'll=20 see something concrete about it in the not to distant = future.
PrintAnywhere is a windows-installed = piece of=20 software that allows other people on the 'net to print to your printer. = Nothing gets=20 people motivated to exercise like seeing their position on the board = slip as others=20 get out there and work up a sweat! I've given up on an out of date tamps = beacause=20 it's so time consuming to stand in line at the Post Office to get 1c=20 stamps.
I haven't looked at it yet - but the = concept is=20 very interesting. I know I'll take flack for it - but I liked = it.
I assumed, given all the media = coverage, that I'd=20 be getting these new Permanent stamps.
This excellent and inexpensive wine is = great - if=20 you don't tell others it's price they'll think it worth more than you = paid. I didn't=20 see any discernible difference between these and the non-permanent type. = Now here's=20 where it get's clever - you can signup on various scoreboards on the = site and=20 compete against other users!
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Q3uhT/vjaAMgWs21c3u3e7uWVnujf3uqrvq4m/u5C1e4F7v4JTt3qHu1ontshQOjT6rctDugpjqV jvp3vPvVxfu/l829gxPAK7rAkyPBR47BZ6+6I3zDO/zDH/veYHuy93tvzc0S9Ag6jsv7QfyfKzx5 pFvHyx+8j3zFx98fbgcLhJPJh+7Hu/zLhy3Ly/zMxzrIXjrN97tKjre743zP+/zP45bE2zvF/3ze XPzXZjy9X1S6C/3btE970Ru9v2hn0u/GxlfbykN91mu9/aE7zPd5uA86Odh8pG+9q+u8E4z5QIr8 2rO9ufPNxA972WPK0fuIxhtogTb9NxG93FcK3VM9C4DDDIQAADs=^% --%^V9^%-- From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 11 06:31:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hba6a-0002s6-3j for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hba6Y-0001Aa-OB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 06:31:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BAVAci029171; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:10 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BAUYGd023972; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:30:36 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BASvM1009088 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:28:57 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BASvHP009084 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:28:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,394,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="134418565:sNHT57472272" Message-Id: <461CB90A.3080403@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:38 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: TSWG , SCTP Implementors , jan@newmarch.name Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704030204x58f9183vb4b1a96a40139e0a@mail.gmail.com> <46123559.20906@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704031923k553bed54kff59e052952fa31b@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <461BB11D.7050508@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <461BB11D.7050508@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 11 Apr 2007 10:28:54.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[34C8CBF0:01C77C24] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3277; t=1176287470; x=1177151470; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=9OGu+uqia7Ds/v5j5YXAbdjUik/an2TfMpMUVaugatQ=; b=JuByG3CtKCCd9xYGkmQPMVudDCJp3Iyb9LfE8vgFxh4RxFb1OoXDVJyG50tXsXiAO/F0e9jd pueQQPnN8Plns+MIBS4CDyI7Z+fgxQbUg/KVv8hBupNwJcmxvM2ZmvGY; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3277; t=1176287335; x=1177151335; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=9OGu+uqia7Ds/v5j5YXAbdjUik/an2TfMpMUVaugatQ=; b=RxfU8adangN1OX9ubEIXiqjyg7rK4Q6GMar3mG4dj9x8ysLPwo9PS92hLxmUaTUbNpr2M6H5 2HN9zaSKPalewHmpCMdQcb2ox+lsauVj1oblsb+iPDiC7aNiHnuQEWerMuPo1ekwJF7E8zFya2 czqCpGow62lUNBNLW0amOzh5k=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Kacheong: One little note that neither adds to nor takes away your argument.. All addresses that are listed by connect/connectx are considered "confirmed" by the stack. This does not change your scenario's .. but it is something to consider :-D R Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> The problem with hostname is that you have no indication in the DNS >> whether the IP addresses >> belong to the same host or not. For SCTP this is crucial, all addresses >> must belong to the >> same host. > > > Hmm, I think the current SCTP socket API draft does not have the > above restriction. From the -14 version of the draft. > > The way the SCTP stack uses the list of addresses to set up > the association is implementation dependent. This function > only specifies that the stack will try to make use of all the > addresses in the list when needed. > > Note that the list of addresses passed in is only used for > setting up the association. It does not necessarily equal the > set of addresses the peer uses for the resulting association. > > An implementation is free to choose the following semantics. > It tries the list of addresses one by one. It waits for two > RTOs before moving to the next one. And when it moves to the > next one, it will forget about the old one. So when there is a > much delayed reply coming from the old one, it will treat it as > out of the blue. Using this semantics, the list of addresses does > not need to correspond to the same host. The above is just a > simple example, I am not advocating that it is a good implementation. > > Why do we need such a restriction on sctp_connectx()? SCTP itself > exchanges the IP addresses used by an association. There is no > need to tell the stack what to expect from the peer. If an app > requires this kind of restriction, it can always find out what > the list of peer addresses is after the association is set up and > terminate the association if the list does not match what it expects. > > >> So one one has to restrict the list of IP-addresses to belong to the >> same host. >> Assume that you send out two SYSs, one to address A, one to address B. >> Now you >> get back a RST from A. Do you fail the connectx() call? > > > If the semantics of the connectx() call is to try the whole list > if necessary to establish a connection, the call will not fail > after getting a RST from A. It can continue to try B. Are you > worried about the case that both A and B belong to the same host? > > Let's consider a example. Suppose for a reason, say load > balancing purpose, a server app writer decides to have two processes, > one with a socket bound to A and the other with a socket bound to > B. A client can connect to either A or B to get the service. Using > connectx(), a client can have A and B on the list of addresses to > try. Suppose somehow the process bound to A crashes and the client's > stack tries A first. So the client gets a RST from A. Then the > client's stack tries B after getting the RST. Is there a problem > with this? > > > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 11 06:31:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hba7J-000379-2p for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hba7H-0001Hz-Qp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 06:31:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BAVthX029333; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BAVhGd024143; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:31:43 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BAVYts009150 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:34 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BAVYCJ009146 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:31:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFFVHEbAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQBAIBAQcODR0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,394,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="77023656:sNHT25311384" Message-Id: <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:30:52 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Michael Tuexen wrote: > Assume I know that Host1 has IP11 and IP12 and Host2 has > IP21 and IP22. > > When I call connectx(IP11,IP12) and the application is not > running on Host1 (due to a failure) I get back an ABORT and > know that it does not make sense to retry IP11 or IP12. I > can report the failure and try to connectx(IP21,IP22). > > I can consider the reception of an ABORT as a failure of > the application and can skip all related IP addresses. As in the example I sent out in my previous mail, getting a RST or ABORT does not necessarily imply that the peer app is not running. One can only make the above assumption if the app knows exactly what the peer app must do, which means that the app must be accepting INIT for the list of addresses. It does not seem to be a general usage of sctp_connectx() and I don't think connectx() should have this restrictions by default. If this kind of behavior is preferred by a certain set of apps, connectx() may take a protocol specific flag which indicates certain behavior. BTW, the current specification of sctp_connectx() does not have this restriction. And it seems to me that if an app expects this behavior, it will not be portable. > It can us a subset. But the problem is the ABORT handling > described above. If I do not know which IP addresses belong > to the same host, I must try all of them. But in SIGTRAN > I either know the grouping (and can use connectx()) or I > do not know it in which case I just use connect(). Actually, the restriction is more than the knowledge of all the addresses belonging to the same host. The peer app must also be accepting INIT for the whole list of addresses. >> I don't think it is a good assumption. An address should >> be confirmed in the SCTP layer, not in the sctp_connectx() >> call layer. > The upper layer always provides some addresses of the peer. > But one could make this stuff optional... Yes, the upper layer provides some peer addresses. But it does not mean that those addresses are automatically confirmed. The confirmation must be done in the SCTP layer. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 11 06:36:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbaBJ-00052F-C0 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:36:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbaBH-0001pn-68 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:36:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 06:36:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BAa2Ei006735; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:36:02 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BAZjlG002577; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:35:45 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BAZeQM009226 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:35:40 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BAZefo009222 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:35:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,394,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="52776054:sNHT55830420" Message-Id: <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:38:22 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 11 Apr 2007 10:35:38.0006 (UTC) FILETIME=[2504E360:01C77C25] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2971; t=1176287762; x=1177151762; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=W2aont/niKmdTCIkMHO3Ezl4x7PweOyMh/w+YMB8540=; b=BQ+iny8S2zLI8gHyE2tuJ+34eySkcWJPKZyVCplTx01HQ2EYc1SfrIqfPA8KzIulgvtleKDv Qn2Ea4juCFWrZvB2PHpyvv3rbYxscu3YGdBodljOHnl5ftDd6uPCl0IE; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2971; t=1176287738; x=1177151738; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=W2aont/niKmdTCIkMHO3Ezl4x7PweOyMh/w+YMB8540=; b=lSxyDb6MiprPu7zMstDQ4bzpSo8mwFxxmfTxig1ZwgWX4zm/o5zxnP7iuWpyphhiuh2s+Mzr DriyPmarRLCHDX68A7IlzNO1vFC9uM6f0MtO4et1czPXaxmy/qyFiptU; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Assume I know that Host1 has IP11 and IP12 and Host2 has >> IP21 and IP22. >> >> When I call connectx(IP11,IP12) and the application is not >> running on Host1 (due to a failure) I get back an ABORT and >> know that it does not make sense to retry IP11 or IP12. I >> can report the failure and try to connectx(IP21,IP22). >> >> I can consider the reception of an ABORT as a failure of >> the application and can skip all related IP addresses. > > > As in the example I sent out in my previous mail, getting > a RST or ABORT does not necessarily imply that the peer app > is not running. One can only make the above assumption if > the app knows exactly what the peer app must do, which means > that the app must be accepting INIT for the list of addresses. > It does not seem to be a general usage of sctp_connectx() and > I don't think connectx() should have this restrictions by > default. If this kind of behavior is preferred by a certain > set of apps, connectx() may take a protocol specific flag > which indicates certain behavior. > > BTW, the current specification of sctp_connectx() does not > have this restriction. And it seems to me that if an app > expects this behavior, it will not be portable. > > >> It can us a subset. But the problem is the ABORT handling >> described above. If I do not know which IP addresses belong >> to the same host, I must try all of them. But in SIGTRAN >> I either know the grouping (and can use connectx()) or I >> do not know it in which case I just use connect(). > > > Actually, the restriction is more than the knowledge of > all the addresses belonging to the same host. The peer app > must also be accepting INIT for the whole list of addresses. > > >>> I don't think it is a good assumption. An address should >>> be confirmed in the SCTP layer, not in the sctp_connectx() >>> call layer. >> The upper layer always provides some addresses of the peer. >> But one could make this stuff optional... > > > Yes, the upper layer provides some peer addresses. But > it does not mean that those addresses are automatically > confirmed. The confirmation must be done in the SCTP > layer. > > I think I agree with all you say (i.e. no such restriction that the addresses all are on the same host is in connectx).. however.. I disagree with the last statement. If a user passes SCTP some addresses... saying in effect I would like to talk to one or some set of these addresses IP1, IP2, IP3.. then these addresses are considered "good" addresses and not an attacker.. Now if the INIT-ACK comes back WITHOUT IP3.. thats ok.. the association will come up... it just will NOT have IP3 in it.. However.. both IP1 and IP2 should be considered confirmed.. and not require a confirmation HB.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 11 07:36:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbb7M-0001B7-LG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:36:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbb7L-0000Bv-0x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:36:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 07:36:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BBa297020891; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:36:02 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BBZXlG012367; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:35:33 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BBX3wv010306 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:33:03 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BBX3BE010302 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:33:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.34 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIRkHEbAEmIifGdsb2JhbACQAwIJDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,394,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="77046506:sNHT27272250" Message-Id: <461CC744.2010201@sun.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:32:20 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Randall Stewart wrote: > I think I agree with all you say (i.e. no such restriction > that the addresses all are on the same host is in > connectx).. however.. I disagree with the last statement. > If a user passes SCTP some addresses... saying in effect > I would like to talk to one or some set of these > addresses IP1, IP2, IP3.. then these addresses > are considered "good" addresses and not an attacker.. But "good" does not imply "confirmed." "Confirmed" is a concept in the SCTP protocol. It is not "clean" to add this semantics to the call, IMHO. > Now if the INIT-ACK comes back WITHOUT IP3.. thats > ok.. the association will come up... it just will > NOT have IP3 in it.. However.. both IP1 and IP2 should > be considered confirmed.. and not require a confirmation > HB.. Is the purpose of forcing a confirmation just saving the HB? If this is the reason, I'd say not to have this additional meaning. The HB exchange serves more than confirming an address. SCTP can get some info, say RTT and reachability from the exchange. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 11 08:01:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbbVi-00066g-Pf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:01:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbbTU-0006Bt-B3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:58:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 07:58:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BBwtYr017622; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:58:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BBwXlG016206; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:58:33 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BBvi9I010652 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:57:44 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BBvhAe010648 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:57:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACVqHEbAEisZk2dsb2JhbACQAwIBAQcIBgcHHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,394,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="51176043:sNHT19755126" Message-Id: <461CCD0D.3010607@sun.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:57:01 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Newmarch , TSWG CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <579ea40b0704110401w7ab28c13h1fa79253d49c3dae@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704110401w7ab28c13h1fa79253d49c3dae@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Jan Newmarch wrote: > I'm just coming at this from an apps programmer viewpoint, and would > seek clarity about what the spec should tell me. > > For connectx, I think the spec is clear enough that all the addresses > MUST belong to the same endpoint. If they do not, the application may > behave in unpredictable ways. If I put in a bogus address then the app > may work ok or may fail (and it's my fault). Yes, I think this was the original idea. Note that the sctp_connectx() call itself does not and probably cannot check whether the list of addresses actually belong to the same host. It may assume that. But it seems that people are saying that if there is no such assumption, the connectx() (not sctp_connectx() which I assume is what is referred above) can do more. For example, if an app only cares about getting some service from a list of servers, giving the list of servers to connectx() is quite handy. So the question here is whether the stack should assume the list of addresses belong to the same peer or not. I guess a flag, as mentioned in a previous mail, may be used for this. And whether the stack makes use of this assumption or not is probably implementation and protocol dependent. > However, it goes on to say "Note that the list of addresses passed in > is only used for setting up the association. It does not necessarily > equal the set of addresses the peer uses for the resulting > association. If the caller wants to find out the set of peer > addresses, it must use sctp_getpaddrs() to retrieve them after the > association has been set up." > > a) Could this be tightened up at all? > b) Not the right forum, I know, but Linux getpaddrs() seems to have a bug > > For (a) what would make sense to me would be that either > - the set of peer addresses is the intersection of the set requested > by connectx and the set offered by the peer (either by bind or bindx); I don't understand this. The set of peer addresses is controlled by the peer. What the app uses in the sctp_connectx() call does not matter. In fact, the peer does not know what the app passes to sctp_connectx(). There is no way to have this meaning. > or > - the set of peer addresses is the set offered by the peer, > irrespective of the set requested by the client. This is what is meant in the current draft. The SCTP protocol does not have the provision to force a peer to use certain set of addresses. > Whatever, I assume that there must be a non-zero intersection between > the addresses in connectx and bindx. Must the set of connectx > addresses be a subset of the addresses on the peer, or a subset of the > addresses bound to by the peer? I'm sometimes seeing a connection to a > peer address not in the connectx list. I think the caller of sctp_connectx() can only assume that one of the addresses passed in is also used by the peer for the association, otherwise the association cannot be set up at all :-) This means that an app can only assume that the intersection of the set passes to sctp_connectx() and the set of peer addresses used for the association is not empty. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From jrefn@citynet.net Wed Apr 11 08:46:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcDf-000594-J6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:46:39 -0400 Received: from host74-96-static.38-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([85.38.96.74]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcDZ-0002Z0-Q9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:46:39 -0400 Received: from jgg ([104.110.89.201]) by host74-96-static.38-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id l3BCo3aS052498; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:50:03 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c77c37$7ca54580$c9596e68@jgg> From: "Mirabel" To: Subject: rabid passenger Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:46:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C77C48.4023B540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a2c4a3535d1556ada67f8703d3d31591 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C77C48.4023B540 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77C48.40264D50" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77C48.40264D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hCalendarMonthYearRow, . NET doctor - Holger Schwichtenberg - XQuery = will not ship with . hCalendarNextPrevStyle a, . 25 percent on Thursday but financial markets = are betting that borrowing costs will still rise in May. 75 euros in late morning trade. "We've made great progress there," he told Reuters on the sidelines of = an event in Taipei. In the process of this operation user is presented = with series of dialogs showing conflicting objects side by side. = companies, but rather to companies from China, India, Vietnam, and = Indonesia. 47 on the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday. Getting a Fix = on GPS "Consumers don't care whether its GPS, GLONASS or Galileo, they = just want a signal," said Yuri Urchich, head of the Russian institute of 1 while still using stable version 2. buyout firms including Kohlberg = Kravis Roberts, it said. Drivers, hill walkers, sailors and army commanders around the world = navigate using satellite technology developed by the U. A recovery in manufacturing is likewise not assured. The reason for this = is that shadowing detection algorithm can only work with either = terminating or non-terminating rules, not with the mix. PPR reaffirmed = earlier this year that it had plenty of firepower to make medium or = large acquisitions, although indicated it was in no hurry to spend any = money. "The stock is acting like it's possible. China is the world's = second-largest PC market by unit sales, with more than 20 million units = shipped last year, according to data tracking firm IDC. Google apologizes for China software blunder - Apr. " "If it's true, = then it shows they have not been able to find anything at the right = price in luxury," he added. 10 Release Notes Firewall Builder v2. 0 percent target - is highly uncertain and much will depend on how far = utility bills fall later this year after steep increases over 2006. Using it for rules in the mangle table for iptables. Companies from China, India and other Asian nations are seen getting the = first contracts. So we need to branch in all chains For rules in mangle = table with direction set to Inbound or Outbound force chain to = PREROUTING or POSTROUTING respectively early. 8 Release Notes Firewall Builder 2. com said an investigation by its technicians found that a method of = typing in Chinese characters released by Google (Charts) in China last = week had copied a product by Sohu. Patagonia: Blueprint for green = business Kepler Equities analyst Cedric Lecasble also said: "A = counterbid might still be a possibility. Although Iran has the world's second biggest reserves of gas behind = Russia, it has been slow to develop gas exports, partly because U. Puma = and its major shareholder Mayfair, who holds more than 25 percent in the = company, declined to comment. Soon they will be able to switch to a Soviet-designed rival - GLONASS. Iran denies plan for global natural gas cartel - Apr. AOL is A-OK China = is the world's second-largest Internet user after the United States, = with around 137 million Web users. ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77C48.40264D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"yearning"
hCalendarMonthYearRow, . NET doctor - = Holger=20 Schwichtenberg - XQuery will not ship with .
hCalendarNextPrevStyle a, . 25 percent = on Thursday=20 but financial markets are betting that borrowing costs will still rise = in=20 May.
75 euros in late morning = trade.
"We've made great progress there," he = told Reuters=20 on the sidelines of an event in Taipei. In the process of this operation = user is=20 presented with series of dialogs showing conflicting objects side by = side.=20 companies, but rather to companies from China, India, Vietnam, and = Indonesia. 47 on=20 the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday. Getting a Fix on GPS "Consumers = don't care=20 whether its GPS, GLONASS or Galileo, they just want a signal," said Yuri = Urchich,=20 head of the Russian institute of
1 while still using stable version 2. = buyout firms=20 including Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, it said.
Drivers, hill walkers, sailors and army = commanders=20 around the world navigate using satellite technology developed by the=20 U.
A recovery in manufacturing is likewise = not=20 assured. The reason for this is that shadowing detection algorithm can = only work=20 with either terminating or non-terminating rules, not with the mix. PPR = reaffirmed=20 earlier this year that it had plenty of firepower to make medium or = large=20 acquisitions, although indicated it was in no hurry to spend any = money.
"The stock is acting like it's = possible. China is=20 the world's second-largest PC market by unit sales, with more than 20 = million units=20 shipped last year, according to data tracking firm IDC.
Google apologizes for China software = blunder - Apr.=20 " "If it's true, then it shows they have not been able to find anything = at the right=20 price in luxury," he added. 10 Release Notes Firewall Builder = v2.
0 percent target - is highly uncertain = and much=20 will depend on how far utility bills fall later this year after steep = increases over=20 2006.
Using it for rules in the mangle table = for=20 iptables.
Companies from China, India and other = Asian nations=20 are seen getting the first contracts. So we need to branch in all chains = For rules=20 in mangle table with direction set to Inbound or Outbound force chain to = PREROUTING=20 or POSTROUTING respectively early.
8 Release Notes Firewall Builder = 2.
com said an investigation by its = technicians found=20 that a method of typing in Chinese characters released by Google = (Charts) in China=20 last week had copied a product by Sohu. Patagonia: Blueprint for green = business=20 Kepler Equities analyst Cedric Lecasble also said: "A counterbid might = still be a=20 possibility.
Although Iran has the world's second = biggest=20 reserves of gas behind Russia, it has been slow to develop gas exports, = partly=20 because U. Puma and its major shareholder Mayfair, who holds more than = 25 percent in=20 the company, declined to comment.
Soon they will be able to switch to = a=20 Soviet-designed rival - GLONASS.
Iran denies plan for global natural gas = cartel -=20 Apr. AOL is A-OK China is the world's second-largest Internet user after = the United=20 States, with around 137 million Web users.
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BBJSYO0ZkfD55KzbqJGuOjEPN1G1IiwFh1AQR6kXC/G/YBH7HOset5Ah+cbhSisS9RCdRoqB3gyw LLKiMJLmENL/OBLePPINhfCUJoIfSZKUTJIQLTIl0xETk8p2dggPdckRZXImISIgAAA7 DpgsN^% --%^V9^%-- From xhh@mchsi.com Wed Apr 11 08:47:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcEW-0005RV-3p for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:47:32 -0400 Received: from host74-96-static.38-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([85.38.96.74]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcES-0002si-3c for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:47:32 -0400 Received: from qpi ([185.26.144.220]) by host74-96-static.38-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l3BCn2U8052498; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:49:02 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c77c37$9e78c970$dc901ab9@qpi> From: "Pat" To: Subject: porous stag Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:47:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C77C48.61FCB770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 57b3d456dc4730784e7070d5c6b7d14f ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C77C48.61FCB770 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77C48.61FDEFF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77C48.61FDEFF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable billionaire Charles Simonyi flies into space. VideoMore video A new = study suggests angioplasties may not be needed for all heart patients. Google apologizes for China software blunder - Apr. NET doctor - Holger = Schwichtenberg - Visual Basic 9. Making sure we always strip directory path from the file name if user = specified full path for the policy file in the "Output file name" input = field in the "Compiler" tab of firewall object dialog. "From next year we will start producing a consumer product from = GLONASS," Gurko said. Last week Google was said to be a contender to = acquire Web advertising placement firm DoubleClick after Microsoft = (Charts) was reported to be considering buying the company. ): GUI used = show fanthom 'Policy', 'NAT' and 'Routing' tabs when user deleted = objects from the Deleted Objects library, provided some of these objects = were previously deleted firewalls. This eliminates duplicates such as = the same rule in PREROUTING and INPUT chains. This means emulation can = be turned on and off for all rules that might require it at once. Compiler for Cisco PIX fixed a bug (no num, support req. The GUI should = properly display nested branch rulesets. Representatives of Dow Chemical and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts were not = immediately available for comment. By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney. For action Branch with option to add = branching rule to the mangle table: we now generate rules in PREROUTING, = POSTROUTING, INPUT, OUTPUT and FORWARD chains. Puma said to be in bid = talks with PPR - Apr. LNG, which is supercooled gas, can be transported by ship, opening up m = 7 Release Notes Firewall Builder Release Notes Version 2. installOptionsDialog was too large and did not fit on some laptop = screens. 7243 against the dollar on Thursday after hitting an intra-day = high of 7. Two data files can not be merged, or one imported into = another, if they contain such objects. Affected platforms are PF and ipfilter because normally for these = platforms compiler generates two files. This means emulation can be turned on and off for all rules that might = require it at once. This operation does not find objects present in one file but not in the = other, such objects present no problem for merge or import operations. = From shopaholic to star retail analyst PPR owns the luxury Gucci Group, = which includes designers Stella McCartney and Alexander McQueen. NET doctor - Holger Schwichtenberg - My book ". "We've made great progress there," he told Reuters on the sidelines of = an event in Taipei. " At least half of the capital is being provided by = investors from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and Oman, with = the rest contributed by a number of U. Puma to boost PPR earningsPuma has often been the subject of bid 59 a = barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. 8 Release Notes Firewall Builder 2. If a rule in fwbuilder uses TCP Service and connlimit option and has = multiple objects in src and dst, optimizer used to split it to minimize = matches. 8 Release Notes Firewall Builder 2. ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77C48.61FDEFF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"sea
billionaire Charles Simonyi flies into = space.=20 VideoMore video A new study suggests angioplasties may not be needed for = all heart=20 patients.
Google apologizes for China software = blunder - Apr.=20 NET doctor - Holger Schwichtenberg - Visual Basic 9.
Making sure we always strip directory = path from the=20 file name if user specified full path for the policy file in the "Output = file name"=20 input field in the "Compiler" tab of firewall object = dialog.
"From next year we will start producing = a consumer=20 product from GLONASS," Gurko said. Last week Google was said to be a = contender to=20 acquire Web advertising placement firm DoubleClick after Microsoft = (Charts) was=20 reported to be considering buying the company. ): GUI used show fanthom = 'Policy',=20 'NAT' and 'Routing' tabs when user deleted objects from the Deleted = Objects library,=20 provided some of these objects were previously deleted firewalls. This = eliminates=20 duplicates such as the same rule in PREROUTING and INPUT chains. This = means=20 emulation can be turned on and off for all rules that might require it = at=20 once.
Compiler for Cisco PIX fixed a bug (no = num, support=20 req. The GUI should properly display nested branch = rulesets.
Representatives of Dow Chemical and = Kohlberg Kravis=20 Roberts were not immediately available for comment.
By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney. For = action Branch=20 with option to add branching rule to the mangle table: we now generate = rules in=20 PREROUTING, POSTROUTING, INPUT, OUTPUT and FORWARD chains. Puma said to = be in bid=20 talks with PPR - Apr.
LNG, which is supercooled gas, can be = transported=20 by ship, opening up m 7 Release Notes Firewall Builder Release Notes = Version =20 2.
installOptionsDialog was too large and = did not fit=20 on some laptop screens. 7243 against the dollar on Thursday after = hitting an=20 intra-day high of 7. Two data files can not be merged, or one imported = into another,=20 if they contain such objects.
Affected platforms are PF and ipfilter = because=20 normally for these platforms compiler generates two files.
This means emulation can be turned on = and off for=20 all rules that might require it at once.
This operation does not find objects = present in one=20 file but not in the other, such objects present no problem for merge or = import=20 operations. From shopaholic to star retail analyst PPR owns the luxury = Gucci Group,=20 which includes designers Stella McCartney and Alexander = McQueen.
NET doctor - Holger Schwichtenberg - My = book=20 ".
"We've made great progress there," he = told Reuters=20 on the sidelines of an event in Taipei. " At least half of the capital = is being=20 provided by investors from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and = Oman, with=20 the rest contributed by a number of U.
Puma to boost PPR earningsPuma has = often been the=20 subject of bid 59 a barrel on the New York Mercantile = Exchange.
8 Release Notes Firewall Builder = 2.
If a rule in fwbuilder uses TCP Service = and=20 connlimit option and has multiple objects in src and dst, optimizer used = to split it=20 to minimize matches. 8 Release Notes Firewall Builder = 2.
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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcZe-000813-UP for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:09:22 -0400 Received: from 108.red-88-8-235.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([88.8.235.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcZb-00085O-9z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:09:22 -0400 Received: from mahtani ([138.116.213.74]) by 108.Red-88-8-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net (0.65.2/0.65.2) with SMTP id MS8qELjgXaDUwy; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:08:59 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c77c42$f31ba730$00616a14@mahtani> From: "Adeline Dorsey" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Go recovery whichever rune Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:06:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77C42.F31BA730" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77C42.F31BA730 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE ALERT IS ON... Search for: WDSCCurrent price: $0.015 5 Day Target price: $0.075Market: = bullish.. TRADE SMART AND WIN WITH US NOW... See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!!! ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77C42.F31BA730 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


THE ALERT IS ON!!!


Search = for: WDSC
Current price: $0.015
5 Day Target price: = $0.075
Market: bullish..


TRADE = SMART AND WIN WITH US NOW..


See = the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!..


------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77C42.F31BA730-- From thctying@kauri.de Wed Apr 11 09:21:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbcl3-0006Ht-Ev for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:21:09 -0400 Received: from [121.51.203.121] (helo=kauri.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbckw-0002GO-Dx for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:21:09 -0400 Received: from 4F7E7136B9324E1 ([223.22.236.195]) by 121.51.203.121 (2.10.2/2.10.2) with SMTP id 7rFEsgEpoiIbpv; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:21:11 +0800 Message-ID: <001b01c77c7f$542aa440$06b52f74@4F7E7136B9324E1> From: "Tabatha Poole" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: With everything leeward Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:17:47 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77C7F.542AA440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77C7F.542AA440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE ALERT IS ON! Lookup: WDSCCurrent: $0.015 5 Day Target price: $0.075Expected: Steadily = climb for the top!!! Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert!!! WDSC have released very hot news. Check this out, sctp-impl-archive and = call to your brocker right now!! ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77C7F.542AA440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

THE ALERT IS ON.

Lookup: WDSC
Current: $0.015
5 Day Target price: = $0.075
Expected: Steadily climb for the top...

Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert!


WDSC = have released very hot news. Check this out, sctp-impl-archive and call = to your brocker right now!...



------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77C7F.542AA440-- From fbasophilic@mywealthcreationmanager.com Wed Apr 11 09:26:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcqT-00012e-3F for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:26:45 -0400 Received: from [59.48.6.201] (helo=mywealthcreationmanager.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbcqR-0003cK-6K for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:26:45 -0400 Received: from DCFE7365F2D74B5 ([136.223.220.83]) by 59.48.6.201 (4.59.4/4.59.4) with SMTP id qOf3p3RcPOgMJY; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:26:51 +0800 Message-ID: <001001c77c80$1e7a5420$07e1bf54@DCFE7365F2D74B5> From: "Callie Frazier" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: It hansen he runyon Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:25:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77C80.1E7A5420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2969 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77C80.1E7A5420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trading 0pportunity For You!!! Lookup: WDSCCurrent: $0.015 5 Day Target price: $0.075Expected: Steadily = climb for the top. Know alot about investing but we are sure you can count.. See the hottest news of the WDSC, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!.. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77C80.1E7A5420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Trading 0pportunity For You!!

Lookup: = WDSC
Current: $0.015
5 Day Target price: = $0.075
Expected: Steadily climb for the top!!


Know = alot about investing but we are sure you can count..

See the = hottest news of the WDSC, sctp-impl-archive, call your = broker!!!!

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C77C80.1E7A5420-- From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 11 12:43:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbfvG-0000fs-1u for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:43:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbfvE-0004hX-5e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:43:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 12:43:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BGhpv3002514; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:43:51 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BGgMlG008212; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:42:22 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BGeA9n015286 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:40:10 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BGeA1F015282 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:40:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,395,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="52840528:sNHT345374433" Message-Id: <461D1004.9060501@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:42:44 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> <461CC744.2010201@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <461CC744.2010201@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 11 Apr 2007 16:40:03.0868 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E16A5C0:01C77C58] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2203; t=1176309831; x=1177173831; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=8upqEHjGl0u4grNPkXku3sCzW1cqeN3hJTn2QYa/I64=; b=DMJThWIavXyMD/h7tteZoGapKNMzUQb6HTnU0VTfLfS8J4dun4qL56niIaderxrBo571+Mow ef8udjHPY3XM748rScrgC1khHSlrhkYJZ4OdFSvA/p/RI9m785nj7ipa; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2203; t=1176309604; x=1177173604; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20bindx |Sender:=20; bh=8upqEHjGl0u4grNPkXku3sCzW1cqeN3hJTn2QYa/I64=; b=tX6rvxwnlZI5D37s5V8RIJ0cNmG6ol6xk6cR8Xh9Rvrq2LcgqYimaFlXoxeLwaowg8gslKCo 9KQsFwV6SdStDp7d9cOs72ggKNuA2kywnjvibtKlyyatIsgGQg9AazfQ; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> I think I agree with all you say (i.e. no such restriction >> that the addresses all are on the same host is in >> connectx).. however.. I disagree with the last statement. >> If a user passes SCTP some addresses... saying in effect >> I would like to talk to one or some set of these >> addresses IP1, IP2, IP3.. then these addresses >> are considered "good" addresses and not an attacker.. > > > But "good" does not imply "confirmed." "Confirmed" > is a concept in the SCTP protocol. It is not "clean" > to add this semantics to the call, IMHO. Confirmed means the peer is not listing addresses in its INIT/INIT-ACK that it does not own. Are you saying that what the user lists might be an attack address, an attack on itself? I don't get this.. > > >> Now if the INIT-ACK comes back WITHOUT IP3.. thats >> ok.. the association will come up... it just will >> NOT have IP3 in it.. However.. both IP1 and IP2 should >> be considered confirmed.. and not require a confirmation >> HB.. > > > Is the purpose of forcing a confirmation just saving > the HB? If this is the reason, I'd say not to have > this additional meaning. The HB exchange serves more > than confirming an address. SCTP can get some info, > say RTT and reachability from the exchange. There may be other addresses to confirm besides the ones given by connectx() example: connectx(IP1, IP2, IP3)---> -------INIT(IPA)--> IP1 IPA <---INIT-ACK(IP1, IP2, IP4, IP5, IP6, IP7) Now IP4 - 7 NEED to be confirmed BEFORE you can use them.. IP3 gets dropped. Why should IP2 take up time in the confirmation process. If who you connected to is "evil" then IP4 -7 may not belong to them.. so it is best to HB them asap.. at only Max.Hb.Burst set to 1.. it delays possibly by 1 second the "true unknown" addresses that were NOT listed in connectx() Yes, we can use the HB to measure the RTT.. and that is good.. but this is the "normal" HB that can work just as well.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From gjsa@global.t-bird.edu Wed Apr 11 12:48:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbfzo-0003hU-E3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:48:36 -0400 Received: from [201.247.121.189] (helo=mzupu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbfzj-0005xQ-NK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:48:36 -0400 Received: (qmail 10676 invoked from network); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:48:28 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO xak) (84.177.151.194) by mzupu with SMTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:48:28 -0600 Message-ID: <001401c77c59$3aa71330$c297b154@xak> From: "Gertrude" To: Subject: serene invaluable Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:48:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77C26.F0006E30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 17589c7043b24a47064a4b7516f59671 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77C26.F0006E30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77C26.F0037B70" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77C26.F0037B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These benefits are available after 90 days of full time employment. Do you have a Bachelor degree in a technical or equivalent experience in = the field? Qualifications: Masters degree preferred or bachelors degree = in technical discipline Computer Science, MIS or Engineering preferred). = You also need a working knowledge of ASME codes related to gas turbine = instrumentation and calibration. You also need a working knowledge of = ASME codes related to gas turbine instrumentation and calibration. Must = have the ability to execute all necessary maintenance tasks for = production lines including rebuilding of equipment, upgrades, welding, = fabricating and maintaining equipment to OEM standards. How many years experience do you have in the Aerospace sector - = industry ? Prefer PE or the ability to obtain one within six months. What versions = are you familiar with ? Benefits and relocation available. EXCELLENT NIGHT SHIFT OPPORTUNITY for = an ELECTRICAL MAINTENANCE TECHNICIAN in CENTRAL FLORIDA. What is your = experience with CCIE and MCSE? If you are qualified, please hit the apply button NOW! We are looking = for candidates with a strong background in using Pro E and Autocad = knowledge for designing and drafting. How many years of experience do you have as a Relay Design Engineer? These benefits are available after 90 days of full time employment. = Please list any relevant experience with electrical design and analysis = software. The company provides opportunity for career growth and = advancement to employees. ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77C26.F0037B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"tycoon"
These benefits are available after 90 = days of full=20 time employment.
Do you have a Bachelor degree in a = technical or=20 equivalent experience in the field? Qualifications: Masters degree = preferred or=20 bachelors degree in technical discipline Computer Science, MIS or = Engineering=20 preferred). You also need a working knowledge of ASME codes related to = gas turbine=20 instrumentation and calibration. You also need a working knowledge of = ASME codes=20 related to gas turbine instrumentation and calibration. Must have the = ability to=20 execute all necessary maintenance tasks for production lines including = rebuilding of=20 equipment, upgrades, welding, fabricating and maintaining equipment to = OEM=20 standards.
How many years experience do you have = in the=20 Aerospace sector - industry ?
Prefer PE or the ability to obtain one = within six=20 months. What versions are you familiar with ?
Benefits and relocation available. = EXCELLENT NIGHT=20 SHIFT OPPORTUNITY for an ELECTRICAL MAINTENANCE TECHNICIAN in CENTRAL = FLORIDA. What=20 is your experience with CCIE and MCSE?
If you are qualified, please hit the = apply button=20 NOW! We are looking for candidates with a strong background in using Pro = E and=20 Autocad knowledge for designing and drafting.
How many years of experience do you = have as a Relay=20 Design Engineer?
These benefits are available after 90 = days of full=20 time employment. Please list any relevant experience with electrical = design and=20 analysis software. The company provides opportunity for career growth = and=20 advancement to employees.
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sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:49:14 -0400 Received: (qmail 29408 invoked from network); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:49:10 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO fun) (35.91.75.82) by mzupu with SMTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:49:10 -0600 Message-ID: <001401c77c59$53a5b210$524b5b23@fun> From: "Gerald" To: Subject: heat wave pants Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:49:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77C27.090352D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6e8a3b85ef670172081194f0b0f68e6f ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77C27.090352D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77C27.09054EA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77C27.09054EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Candidate will serve as the single point of contact for strategic and = tactical IT planning and execution. This position requires a highly motivated structural engineer to perform = various types of forensic evaluations and investigations on residential = and commercial buildings. The qualified candidate will have documented = electrical and mechanical experience in a CNC manufacturing environment. = Must be proficient in Microsoft Word and Excel. Prefer PE or the ability = to obtain one within six months. Immediate needs for Project Controls = Engineers with proven Cost Forecasting and Cost Analysis for EPC and = power generation projects. Well established power generation organization is seeking a Senior Level = Manager or a Director level Information Systems Applications Manager for = a direct hire position in south Florida. Looking for great benefits from a stable employer with strong growth? = POST- SALES support includes meeting with clients to provide technical = demonstrations, developing designs, and equipment lists. Prefers candidates with a BS degree. and is an EOE and a Drug Free Work = Place. You will be responsible for directing and tracking contractor = needs and activities as directed by management. Why do you want to leave your present job? How many years experience do = you have working on residential or commercial buildings ? Provide post-sales support to the Account Managers for Cisco IP Network = products (including Call Manager, Call Manager Express, Unity Express, = and IPCC Express). How many hours or years of Primavera or P3 software ? We are looking for = someone to stay and grow with us. Benefits include major medical with = four weeks of vacation per year! ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C77C27.09054EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"equal
Candidate will serve as the single = point of contact=20 for strategic and tactical IT planning and execution.
This position requires a highly = motivated=20 structural engineer to perform various types of forensic evaluations = and=20 investigations on residential and commercial buildings. The qualified = candidate will=20 have documented electrical and mechanical experience in a CNC = manufacturing=20 environment. Must be proficient in Microsoft Word and Excel. Prefer PE = or the=20 ability to obtain one within six months. Immediate needs for Project = Controls=20 Engineers with proven Cost Forecasting and Cost Analysis for EPC and = power=20 generation projects.
Well established power generation = organization is=20 seeking a Senior Level Manager or a Director level Information Systems = Applications=20 Manager for a direct hire position in south Florida.
Looking for great benefits from a = stable employer=20 with strong growth? POST- SALES support includes meeting with clients to = provide=20 technical demonstrations, developing designs, and equipment = lists.
Prefers candidates with a BS degree. = and is an EOE=20 and a Drug Free Work Place. You will be responsible for directing and = tracking=20 contractor needs and activities as directed by management.
Why do you want to leave your present = job? How many=20 years experience do you have working on residential or commercial = buildings=20 ?
Provide post-sales support to the = Account Managers=20 for Cisco IP Network products (including Call Manager, Call Manager = Express, Unity=20 Express, and IPCC Express).
How many hours or years of Primavera or = P3 software=20 ? We are looking for someone to stay and grow with us. Benefits include = major=20 medical with four weeks of vacation per year!
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--%^V9^%-- From premierage.com@lindamosley.com Wed Apr 11 14:32:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbhcF-0002VA-3e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:32:23 -0400 Received: from [82.84.165.226] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbhcC-0003Yd-Gb for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:32:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77c67$c318b300$0100007f@localhost> From: "Thomas Williams" To: Subject: 0EM Software Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:32:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77C67.C318B300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77C67.C318B300 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X3UBpESOmrehq2oOKOzCdKu98VjKZ+mFNOBLGBQCIgAh+QQEDwAAACyjAOAAAQAPAAAEBXDI SWsEADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77C67.C318B300-- From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 11 15:58:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbixb-0007SL-FA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:58:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbix0-00059P-Ps for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:58:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 15:57:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3BJvrrN031031; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:57:53 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3BJuiGd000278; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:56:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3BJtHSb018729 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:55:17 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3BJtHtE018725 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:55:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALXZHEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQBQIBCA4q X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,395,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="77260348:sNHT34076619" In-Reply-To: <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <46137F67.7080504@cisco.com> <461380FB.6060704@cisco.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <660643B9-3511-41F4-A391-09EC4347E004@micmac.franken.de> CC: TSWG , jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors , Vlad Yasevich Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:53:31 +0200 To: Kacheong Poon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d95a152022472c7d6cdf886a0424dc6 Hi Kacheong, just a clarification: My description of how connectx() works is related to sctp_connectx(), since only sctp_connectx() exists for now. connectx() as a generic function might be different. I did not always distinguished sctp_connectx() from connectx(), but I'll do from now on. More comments in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 11, 2007, at 12:30 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Assume I know that Host1 has IP11 and IP12 and Host2 has >> IP21 and IP22. >> >> When I call connectx(IP11,IP12) and the application is not >> running on Host1 (due to a failure) I get back an ABORT and >> know that it does not make sense to retry IP11 or IP12. I >> can report the failure and try to connectx(IP21,IP22). >> >> I can consider the reception of an ABORT as a failure of >> the application and can skip all related IP addresses. > > > As in the example I sent out in my previous mail, getting > a RST or ABORT does not necessarily imply that the peer app > is not running. One can only make the above assumption if > the app knows exactly what the peer app must do, which means > that the app must be accepting INIT for the list of addresses. This is what you do in SIGTRAN. You know which addresses are used, and the accepting side binds to all of them. The same is true for Reliable Server Pooling, where a pool element binds a socket to some addresses and afterwards registers them at an ENRP server. Now the pool user gets this list of addresses and knows that the pool element is not working as soon as the first ABORT is received. > It does not seem to be a general usage of sctp_connectx() and > I don't think connectx() should have this restrictions by > default. If this kind of behavior is preferred by a certain > set of apps, connectx() may take a protocol specific flag > which indicates certain behavior. Let us distinguish between connectx() in general, connectx() for SCTP sockets and sctp_connectx(). For connectx() I'm not sure. But for sctp_connectx() the fast failure detection is needed. I know that *BSD and the userland implementation from www.sctp.de does it like this. I'm not sure about Linux. Vlad? The confirmation stuff can be made optional, but I'm not sure how you will implement it. Assume that the user calls sctp_connectx(IP1,IP2), and you implement it in a way that you send out two INITs, one towards IP1, another one to IP2. Now you get back an INIT-ACK. You are allowed to consider the IP address to which you sent the INIT to which was responded with the INIT-ACK. But which address is it? How can you know? The source address of the INIT-ACK might not be the right address. So I think considering all addresses confirmed helps in implementing sctp_connectx() and is OK, from a security perspective. At least you should have the option to do so. > > BTW, the current specification of sctp_connectx() does not > have this restriction. And it seems to me that if an app > expects this behavior, it will not be portable. You are right, the current spec is weak on this... But it is still an ID... > > >> It can us a subset. But the problem is the ABORT handling >> described above. If I do not know which IP addresses belong >> to the same host, I must try all of them. But in SIGTRAN >> I either know the grouping (and can use connectx()) or I >> do not know it in which case I just use connect(). > > > Actually, the restriction is more than the knowledge of > all the addresses belonging to the same host. The peer app > must also be accepting INIT for the whole list of addresses. Yes. > > >>> I don't think it is a good assumption. An address should >>> be confirmed in the SCTP layer, not in the sctp_connectx() >>> call layer. >> The upper layer always provides some addresses of the peer. >> But one could make this stuff optional... > > > Yes, the upper layer provides some peer addresses. But > it does not mean that those addresses are automatically > confirmed. The confirmation must be done in the SCTP > layer. See my discussion above. I'm not sure how you can handle that and I think an implementation should have at least an option to consider them confirmed. This should not affect application programmers. > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com > From psylarbr@addisonavenue.com Wed Apr 11 20:29:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbnCE-0000xl-Cf; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:29:54 -0400 Received: from [201.29.75.129] (helo=469E1F58) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbnCB-0003WS-Cy; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:29:54 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.8] ([201.29.75.129]) by reeve.com (Sendmail 8.7.4) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT07913 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:30:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:30:00 -0800 Message-id: X-Mailer: ColdFusion MX Application Server X-PGP-Key: 8gYb62UMtVqOOIFZJKt9Y0kjV8u5zSW== Organization: cramRND_WORD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: rserpool@ietf.org, rserpool-admin@ietf.org, rsvp-archive@ietf.org, rtg-dir@ietf.org, satoruuascertainhaori@ietf.org, schema-archive@ietf.org, scoya@ietf.org, sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org, seamoby@ietf.org, seamoby-admin@ietf.org From: "Myron Michel" Subject: SPRING SPECIAL DISCOUNT... 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From ogkabalonerne@newport-abacus.com Wed Apr 11 23:14:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbplU-0006im-Nt for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:14:28 -0400 Received: from [88.200.185.157] (helo=88.200.185.157) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbplQ-0007Yf-3d for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:14:28 -0400 Message-ID: <05aa01c77d05$3dea52b0$8853d7f0@nrutu> Reply-To: "Bradlyd Askewv" From: "Bradlyd Askewv" To: Subject: An brushed Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:15:05 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 926f893f9bbbfa169f045f85f0cdb955 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet and hoped to convince local Muslims that authorities were behind the violence -- a of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent Compliments; Demoulas Market Basket; Fine Feline Cat, Shep Dog; Food Lion; Foodtown; U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet recall of certain Iams and Eukanuba products. Menu Brands lists the brands on its kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
wounding another seven, police said Sunday.The attack occurred late Saturday evening of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have
= 3Dm = U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet and hoped to convince local Muslims that authorities were behind the violence -- a of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent Compliments; Demoulas Market Basket; Fine Feline Cat, Shep Dog; Food Lion; Foodtown; U.S. and one Canadian factory produce more than 1 billion containers of wet pet recall of certain Iams and Eukanuba products. Menu Brands lists the brands on its kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the

=

cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of store brands -- recalled 60 million containers of wet pet food Friday after manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; = = ------=_NextPart_001_0001_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00E6E42D.B59F7CF0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Vivianxzjl.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: 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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbt2P-0007t0-Sa for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 02:44:09 -0400 Received: from [222.124.146.10] (helo=10.subnet222-124-146.astinet.telkom.net.id) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbt2N-0005k9-8D for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 02:44:09 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c8363a$d7e1c640$00188aa4@yayasane45a3f8> From: "DAVIS FINANCIAL SERVICES INC" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Estimado usuario de Online Banking ! 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Sus = datos confidenciales seránusados sólodentro = delacompañía.El gerente delacompañíase = comunicará con cada uno delos empleados que cumpla con los = requisitos para realizar una entrevista por teléfono opor correo = electrónico. Siestá dispuesto/a aempezar por favor llene = elanexo abajo yenvíelo alamisma dirección: = DavisFinSr@gmail.com Tenga elfavor decopiar este anexo yadjuntarlo = asurespuesta Nombre: Apellidos: País: Ciudad: = Teléfono: E-mail: Informaciónadicional sobre Usted : = Tenga elfavor decopiar este anexo yadjuntarlo asurespuesta Nuestra = compañíahaobtenido sucontacto enlos recursos púlicos del = internet. Hemos pensado que Vd.Puede estar interesado/a eneltrabajo con = nuestra compañíadesde sucasa.© Copyright 1996-2007 DAVIS = FINANCIAL SERVICES INC ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C8363A.D7E1C640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
¡Oferta = de trabajo de «DAVIS FINANCIAL SERVICES = INC»!
Por el momento nuestra compañía está = ampliándose y contamos con un número limitado de puestos vacantes.

¿Cuánto voy = a ganar?
Vd. puede ganar hasta 2000-3000 EUR de acuerdo con = el tiempo que va a dedicar al trabajo.

¿Qué voy = a hacer?
Recibir correspondencia de parte = de la compañía o clientes = a su dirección privada, contestar a los correos = electrónicos y realizar ciertos actos / llamadas = telefónicas.

Ofertas especiales para = hombres de negocios
Tenemos una propuesta especial si Vd. tiene su propia = empresa

¿Cuánto = cuesta?
No se necesitan ningunas inversiones de su parte = para empezar a trabajar con nosotros.

¿Cómo puedo empezar?
=09 Sus datos confidenciales serán usados sólo dentro=20= de la compañía. El gerente = de la compañía se=20 comunicará con cada uno de los empleados que cumpla con los = requisitos para=20 realizar una entrevista por teléfono o por correo = electrónico.

Si está dispuesto/a a empezar por favor llene = el anexo abajo y envíelo a la misma = dirección: =20 DavisFinSr@gmail.com =09

=09
Tenga el favor = de copiar este anexo y adjuntarlo = a su respuesta
=09 Nombre:
Apellidos:
País:
Ciudad:
Teléfono:
E-mail:

=09 Información adicional sobre Usted :

=09 =09
Tenga el favor = de copiar este anexo y adjuntarlo = a su respuesta
=20

=09 Nuestra compañía ha obtenido
su contacto = en los recursos púlicos del internet.

Hemos pensado que Vd. Puede estar interesado/a =
en el trabajo con nuestra compañía desde = su casa.

© Copyright 1996-2007  DAVIS FINANCIAL SERVICES = INC
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From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 12 07:28:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbxTB-00069L-IX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:28:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbxTA-0007sd-7g for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:28:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Apr 2007 07:28:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3CBS3IW014560; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:28:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3CBQVGd015178; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:26:31 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3CBNUUF003616 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:23:30 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3CBNUZV003612 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:23:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAHCzHUbAEisZk2dsb2JhbAAYj24BAQEBBwgGBwcchyM X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,400,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="51515714:sNHT18405324" Message-Id: <461E1684.5030504@sun.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:22:44 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> <461CC744.2010201@sun.com> <461D1004.9060501@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <461D1004.9060501@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Randall Stewart wrote: > Confirmed means the peer is not listing addresses > in its INIT/INIT-ACK that it does not own. Are you saying > that what the user lists might be an attack address, an > attack on itself? Note that there are two levels of concepts here. In SCTP level, I think we should not restrict "confirmed" to "attack." To SCTP, a confirmed address means that it is reachable and can be used to send data for an association. Before an address is confirmed, SCTP should not send any data to that address. This is really not only a "security" measure, but a good approach to multihoming handling. The second level is in the app layer. When an app calls sctp_connectx(), it just tells the stack that it wants to talk to any one of the given addresses. The app does not know whether all of those addresses can be confirmed in the SCTP layer. And for sctp_connectx(), it may assume that all the given addresses belong to the same host. But it does not really care whether SCTP can confirm those addresses. > I don't get this.. What I tried to point out is that it is a good idea not to mix concepts in the socket and SCTP layers. It is not necessary. I think we "may mix" the concepts, but not "must mix." So it is better not to mix them. > There may be other addresses to confirm besides the ones > given by connectx() example: > > connectx(IP1, IP2, IP3)---> > -------INIT(IPA)--> IP1 > IPA <---INIT-ACK(IP1, IP2, IP4, IP5, IP6, IP7) > > Now IP4 - 7 NEED to be confirmed BEFORE you can use them.. > > IP3 gets dropped. > > Why should IP2 take up time in the confirmation process. Because SCTP does not know that IP2 is reachable. So before it can send data to it, it needs to be confirmed. And what is the problem of doing that? To "waste" one HB? But that HB may save future RTO wait because IP2 is not reachable. And I don't think this saving justifies the "mixing" up of concepts in different layers. > If who you connected to is "evil" then IP4 -7 may not > belong to them.. so it is best to HB them asap.. at only > Max.Hb.Burst set to 1.. it delays possibly by 1 second > the "true unknown" addresses that were NOT listed in connectx() This is restricting the confirmed semantics to "attack" which I think is not necessary. > Yes, we can use the HB to measure the RTT.. and that is > good.. but this is the "normal" HB that can work just as > well.. Note that before an address is confirmed, no data should be sent to that address. This is different from a normal HB. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 12 07:40:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbxfS-0003Pi-Le for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:40:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbxfS-0002SY-B6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:40:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Apr 2007 07:40:47 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3CBej4C017935; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:40:45 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3CBeVGd017695; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:40:31 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3CBdl4u003950 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:39:47 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3CBdlUR003946 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:39:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.22 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADC3HUbAEisWh2dsb2JhbAAYj24BAQEIDg0dhyM X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,400,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="77553562:sNHT25113753" Message-Id: <461E1A58.6010400@sun.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:39:04 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TSWG CC: jan@newmarch.name, SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461396B8.4090403@cisco.com> <4613D887.1030303@sun.com> <4613E7CE.2020407@cisco.com> <4613FBC7.3070406@cisco.com> <4613FD6D.7040908@hp.com> <4613FFB5.1060800@cisco.com> <46140324.8090609@hp.com> <40A38A45-5C91-4EB4-A2DF-5D0A246CC8BC@micmac.franken.de> <461408F1.8080500@hp.com> <461437A3.9050309@cisco.com> <46143862.8080201@hp.com> <4614C59F.8000900@cisco.com> <461BB369.1060006@sun.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> <660643B9-3511-41F4-A391-09EC4347E004@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <660643B9-3511-41F4-A391-09EC4347E004@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Michael Tuexen wrote: > This is what you do in SIGTRAN. You know which addresses are > used, and the accepting side binds to all of them. > The same is true for Reliable Server Pooling, where a pool > element binds a socket to some addresses and afterwards registers > them at an ENRP server. Now the pool user gets this list > of addresses and knows that the pool element is not working as > soon as the first ABORT is received. As I mentioned, if this is a useful concept, I guess a protocol flag to connectx() can be used to indicate this. .. > Assume that the user calls sctp_connectx(IP1,IP2), and > you implement it in a way that you send out two INITs, one > towards IP1, another one to IP2. Now you get back an INIT-ACK. > You are allowed to consider the IP address to which you sent the > INIT to which was responded with the INIT-ACK. But which address > is it? How can you know? The source address of the INIT-ACK > might not be the right address. It really depends on the implementation. For example, a simple minded approach can be that the initiation tags are different in the INITs. > So I think considering all addresses confirmed helps in > implementing sctp_connectx() and is OK, from a security > perspective. At least you should have the option to do so. As in my reply to Randy, I think it is a "may," not a "must." And I think it is cleaner not to mix them up. > See my discussion above. I'm not sure how you can handle that > and I think an implementation should have at least an option > to consider them confirmed. This should not affect application > programmers. No, app programmers should not need to care about "confirmed" addresses. It is a concept in SCTP layer. Exposing this concept in the API is not a good idea. This is one reason why I don't want sctp_connectx() to have this semantics. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From aavv@ipbolaget.com Thu Apr 12 08:38:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbyZV-0001my-BS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:38:41 -0400 Received: from [88.118.161.59] (helo=ipbolaget.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbyZS-0003v6-IJ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:38:40 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c77d18$94771df0$0664c514@namu> From: "Cecelia Craig" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: I from pond Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:38:12 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D18.94771DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D18.94771DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE! 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All = signs show that this one is going to Explode..


Check = the news of BVYH, sctp-impl-archive, contact broker!!

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D18.94771DF0-- From ovase@career-pro.com Thu Apr 12 08:39:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbyZu-0002Cw-M8 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:39:06 -0400 Received: from [221.197.37.126] (helo=career-pro.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbyZl-0006Ph-W6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:39:06 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c77d42$a8ac82e0$01bdc85c@092363221BA8490> From: "Johnnie Clay" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Have bath of wattage Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:39:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D42.A8AC82E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2969 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1081 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D42.A8AC82E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Act now while the price is still low!!! Sym8oL: BVYHCurr Price: $4.59 5 Day Target price: $7.95Action: Aggresive = Buy/Hold. Bullish profit guaranted (500+%)... BVYH have released very hot news. Check this out, sctp-impl-archive and = call to your brocker right now!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D42.A8AC82E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Act now while the price is still = low!



Sym8oL: BVYH
Curr Price: $4.59
5 Day Target price: = $7.95
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold.



Bullish profit guaranted (500+%).


BVYH = have released very hot news. Check this out, sctp-impl-archive and call = to your brocker right now!..

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77D42.A8AC82E0-- From bvdispensate@freemoneymails.com Thu Apr 12 08:47:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbyho-0005cx-Mg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:47:16 -0400 Received: from [210.5.97.187] (helo=210.5.97.187.pldt.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbyhm-000559-Ec for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:47:16 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c77d43$ae1374e0$0668e4b4@ryland> From: "Lacy Casey" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: It waterfall on thrice Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:46:43 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C77D43.AE1374E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.4682 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C77D43.AE1374E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take a look at this ONE.. Campaign for: BVYHPrice: $4.59 5 Day Target price: $7.95Market: hellish! This sym is gaining momentum. See bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call broker!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C77D43.AE1374E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Take a look at this = ONE!!

Campaign for: BVYH
Price: $4.59
5 Day Target price: = $7.95
Market: hellish...



This = sym is gaining momentum!!



See = bullish news online right now, sctp-impl-archive, call = broker!!



------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C77D43.AE1374E0-- From qhosd@mail1.sbaif.com Thu Apr 12 15:17:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc4nr-00077o-MD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:17:55 -0400 Received: from server03.sbaif.com ([203.98.173.238]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc4nk-0001qE-U7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:17:55 -0400 Received: from szjh-jsfoovenfe ([202.104.103.80]) by server03.sbaif.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:17:37 +0800 From: "e673kgjefgwhfchfndj52SGXBV" To: "sctgcom" Subject: =?GB2312?B?1LjO0sPHxNy6z9f3s8m5pl9kNTY3MjExNThoZnNoRU1HRURZSkk=?= Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:16:54 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2007 19:17:43.0218 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EB6A920:01C77D37] X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Y3hjdjMyMDMyMmRramZnZGY4NTY1NDI0OGpkZmpmbGNra3V1aWs1NjMxamRrMVJnaVgxDQoNCg0K 1/C+tLXExa7Kvy/PyMn6o7oNCg0KICAgIMT6usOjoc7Sy77XqNK1y7BfzvEgtPpfwO2juszhuanL sF/O8bT6X7+qX8axIL7dz+C52NDFz6LXyV/Rr6Gj18lf0a+3ts6no7rU9l/WtV/GsaGiDQoNCsbV X82oyczGt8/6yttfxrGhorXnxNSw5tTLyuRfxrGhorn6vMq79dTLX8axoaK547jmX8axoaLX4sHe X8axoaK9qNb+sLLXsF/GsaGiss3S+7aotu5fxrGhog0KDQq3z77Jzu/Xys/6yttfxrGhormk0rXN s9K7IMaxoaLJzNK1zbPSuyDGsaGi1bnAwF/GsaGivNO5pM6s0N5fxrGhosb7s7XOrNDeX8axoaLN 4l/DsyC6y1/P+rWlDQoNCtLUvLDG5Mv8tcjGsdbWoaMNCg0KDQogICAg1qMg1tggs9AgxbWjusv5 INPQxrFfvt2/ydLUtb3LsF/O8V++1tHpICDWpLvyyc9fzfiy6V/Rr6OhDQoNCg0KICAgICAgICAg yOe587mry77T0LT6X7+qX8axX77dt73D5rXEzsrM4iy7ttOtwLRftefXyV/Rry7Qu9C7o6ENCg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IMGqz7W157uwyscgMTM1MzA2NDE1NDUuINbcz8jJ+g0KICAgICAgICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KIA0KDQogDQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBidmJmazk4NTM1MHhja2dqa2YyMzRkZmQ0NThk a2ZndWNtdm5qYWl0OWx2amQ2NTJpcmJhdVhRVlVDVg0KDQoNCiAgICByd3J3ZTU2M2N4a3Zpb2Rm bGl0dDI5ODc1NjIzODc2eGNrajIzNzg2MHZrZmRnaXRkaGZ2dmlvYWdyO2ZnNjNqX2xqZnBmNyAg DQoNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIG9saWtr amk2NTIzMGtjZmdyZWw1Nzg4ODk2NmRqYmlmb2s4NTUxNjVnZWV5aXZsZ3NsZnVpZ21rbGd1aWxm Z2MyMzcwZWlkaQ== From cyomongoose@clearviewcatv.net Thu Apr 12 17:38:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc6zh-0002jS-LS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:38:17 -0400 Received: from [200.106.34.32] (helo=clearviewcatv.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc6ze-0002SI-93 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:38:17 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c77cbc$836b6d60$066cea24@user8d3dbb40f7> From: "Cherie Curry" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Which quietus here bypass Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 04:39:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77CBC.836B6D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77CBC.836B6D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trading 0pportunity For You.. S.umbol: BVYHCurrent price: $4.70 5 Day Target price: = $7.95Recommendation: very aggresive buy!! 500% profit guaranted... See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!... ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77CBC.836B6D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Trading 0pportunity For = You!!


S.umbol: BVYH
Current price: $4.70
5 Day Target price: = $7.95
Recommendation: very aggresive buy..

500% = profit guaranted...

See = the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!!!

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C77CBC.836B6D60-- From ibtlunchszu@edhec.com Thu Apr 12 20:16:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc9So-0003tn-Ic for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:16:30 -0400 Received: from [190.51.73.181] (helo=edhec.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc9Sm-0008NG-Rl for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:16:30 -0400 Message-ID: <092b01c77e01$3bfb73e0$5405c2d0@upyramidq> Reply-To: "HCarmella RNelson" From: "HCarmella RNelson" To: Subject: Re: by eulerian Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:21:42 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 This one is GURANTEED to Double by end of week Remember HANS and FIZ Fire Mtn Beverage Company Sym-FBVG Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents Short or long, this one cant go wrong, look at HANS and FIZ Remember Snapple Get in Friday don't regret later You wanna experience this one !! defense. ''That team can blow you out and they can score in bunches,'' he said have started to put it together lately, and this was the night it finally all it was a disappointment." Amaker's career record at Michigan was 109-83 overall ways. But at Michigan, we have a tradition of winning Big Ten and national ----- Original Message ----- From: "HCarmella RNelson" To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: by eulerian > Remember HANS and FIZ > Fire Mtn Beverage Company > Sym-FBVG > Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents > Short or long, this one cant go wrong, look at HANS and FIZ From aimplementer@barbaraleicht.com Fri Apr 13 03:00:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcFmB-0004kx-KV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:00:55 -0400 Received: from [211.58.48.30] (helo=barbaraleicht.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcFmA-0000Dm-0b for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:00:55 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c77de4$a4c52ef0$064c5034@LocalHost> From: "Stella Henry" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: That sang a potion Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:58:57 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77DE4.A4C52EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77DE4.A4C52EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULL MARKET REPORT!! Sym8oL: BVYHCurr Price: $4.70 5 Day Target price: $7.95Action: Aggresive = Buy/Hold... Insider Buying Alert.. sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker = now!.. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77DE4.A4C52EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


BULL MARKET REPORT.



Sym8oL: BVYH
Curr Price: $4.70
5 Day Target price: = $7.95
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!


Insider Buying Alert!



sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your = brocker now!!!

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C77DE4.A4C52EF0-- From lfquench@irmispage.de Fri Apr 13 03:01:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcFn4-00056c-V6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:01:50 -0400 Received: from [58.245.203.160] (helo=irmispage.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcFmv-0000Jx-RK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 03:01:50 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c77ddc$c5d360b0$0198fb5c@A2> From: "Rosalind Duncan" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Of vaccinate till whelk Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:02:36 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DDC.C5D360B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.181 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DDC.C5D360B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take adventage.. Sym8oL: BVYHCurr Price: $4.70 5 Day Target price: $7.95Action: Aggresive = Buy/Hold!!! All signs show that this one is going to Explode... See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!.. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DDC.C5D360B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Take adventage!

Sym8oL: BVYH
Curr Price: $4.70
5 Day Target price: = $7.95
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold!


All = signs show that this one is going to Explode!


See = the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!!


------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DDC.C5D360B0-- From cbmatriarchal@cdcda.org Fri Apr 13 06:07:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcIgR-0002yq-GE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:07:11 -0400 Received: from [88.240.166.94] (helo=cdcda.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcIgM-0002Zc-9O for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:07:11 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c77dcc$aa6c4090$06ab9f74@bircel> From: "Cornelia Hart" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Or on render Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:07:18 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DCC.AA6C4090" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DCC.AA6C4090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This one will explode! Lookup: BVYHCurrent: $4.70 5 Day Target price: $7.95Expected: Steadily = climb for the top.. SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING! Check the news of BVYH, sctp-impl-archive, contact broker!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DCC.AA6C4090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This one will explode!!

Lookup: = BVYH
Current: $4.70
5 Day Target price: $7.95
Expected: = Steadily climb for the top!!!

SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING!!!

Check = the news of BVYH, sctp-impl-archive, contact broker!!

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C77DCC.AA6C4090-- From fvpcollector@cashinonmail.com Fri Apr 13 06:11:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcIkD-00054I-Hv for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:11:05 -0400 Received: from [123.4.141.159] (helo=cashinonmail.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcIkB-00041Z-8p for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c77df7$1de6fd60$00d3f7ac@CHINA83994F48A> From: "Shawn Reid" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Go because santo Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:11:11 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C77DF7.1DE6FD60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1081 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C77DF7.1DE6FD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE BULL REPORT. S.umbol: BVYHCurrent price: $4.70 5 Day Target price: = $7.95Recommendation: very aggresive buy. SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING! See the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C77DF7.1DE6FD60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
THE BULL REPORT...



S.umbol: BVYH
Current price: $4.70
5 Day Target price: = $7.95
Recommendation: very aggresive buy.

SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING...



See = the news, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker!.



------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C77DF7.1DE6FD60-- From tplul@slac.stanford.edu Fri Apr 13 14:52:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcQtA-0004wx-77 for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:52:52 -0400 Received: from bab141.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.27.165.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcQt4-0000Ci-Iu for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:52:52 -0400 Received: from qaf ([98.125.142.31]) by bab141.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:52:54 +0200 Message-ID: <001c01c77dfc$f20a9980$1f8e7d62@qaf> From: "Payton Gwendolen" To: Subject: Now, he turned around, and wrote ANOTHER ebook documenting what he did (thereby in effect teaching YOU how to build a list instantly) but threw in the very script he used to run the whole process! Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:52:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77E0D.B5842740" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000733-1, 2007-04-13), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d4a1871e876bd836d4c351e861e8720d ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C77E0D.B5842740 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C77E0D.B587F7D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C77E0D.B587F7D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In 1999, Mamadou Ly obtained two patents for making preservative-free = jam. We need to encourage the setting up of agricuItural banks to provide = more flexible financing for projects. It is not easy for an individual to own several hectares of land which = he can farm. But just because a law exists, it does not necessarily = follow that it will be enforced. But legacy telco BTTB can handle 12. com If you have a blog, I would strongly suggest you review and comment = on the list. ) Linkbait: What is it, How to write it, and how to generate massive = buzz and hundreds of backlinks in your niche using it. How to create and = syndicate video to the top video sharing sites for high-powered and = valuable backlinks (Google likes video links! An initiative to add red palm oil to the diets of women and children in = central-eastern Burkina Faso has resulted in a significant fall in = levels of vitamin A deficiency (see Spore 111). And even if a bank were = to finance his agricultural project, he would have to invest his own = capital, which he would be unlikely to have. The products are the 7935 = version 3. The NGO SOS Faim has launched a new international campaign to = highlight the devastating effect of exports of subsidised milk on = livestock rearing and family agriculture in Africa. They describe ota as = an easy crop to grow and say it is ideal for both small-scale farmers = and people living in urban areas. However, the field of agriculture is a case apart. In spite of their = unattractive appearance, these large sea worms, which grow up to 12 cm = long and belong to the echinoderm family, have fallen victim to the = appetite of Asian gourmets. They describe ota as an easy crop to grow = and say it is ideal for both small-scale farmers and people living in = urban areas. A wide array of other ACP products could also be developed for the = functional foods sector. The NGO SOS Faim has launched a new = international campaign to highlight the devastating effect of exports of = subsidised milk on livestock rearing and family agriculture in Africa. Separately, a Bangladeshi court lifted a ban on licensing new VoIP = carriers. Regulators have been going through the country over the last couple of = weeks shutting down all the call centers it could find. August 2006 saw the laying of the foundation stone for a renewable = energy training centre on the island of Amamtuku measuring just 0. I could have written it in an hour (and should have) He made an = immediate 3,000 bucks, and built his list with it. Two biogas digesters = producing energy from waste, a small biodiesel production unit, a wind = generator and photovoltaic cells will be installed on the islet as part = of the project. Considerable scientific input is required to develop = these foods and in many cases, harvesting, processing and storage = technologies will need to be upgraded. In Senegal, two large hospitals in Dakar have begun serving fonio to = diabetes patients. It was carried out during 2 weeks in Nessuit, a village in Nakuru = district, in central-western Kenya. com If you have a blog, I would = strongly suggest you review and comment on the list. On the domestic = front, governments must work to set up and support development companies = or agricultural cooperatives which can make good use of our young = graduates. The test network demonstrated capacity gains approximately 30 times = greater than mobile analog voice and results from a fully loaded = commercial network could be somewhat lower. Kava is a herb from the = pepper family with reputed benefits for alleviating anxiety and inducing = sleep. We need to encourage the setting up of agricuItural banks to = provide more flexible financing for projects. ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C77E0D.B587F7D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"Jew"
In 1999, Mamadou Ly obtained two = patents for making=20 preservative-free jam.
We need to encourage the setting up of = agricuItural=20 banks to provide more flexible financing for projects.
It is not easy for an individual to own = several=20 hectares of land which he can farm. But just because a law exists, it = does not=20 necessarily follow that it will be enforced. But legacy telco BTTB can = handle=20 12.
com If you have a blog, I would = strongly suggest=20 you review and comment on the list.
) Linkbait: What is it, How to write = it, and how to=20 generate massive buzz and hundreds of backlinks in your niche using it. = How to=20 create and syndicate video to the top video sharing sites for = high-powered and=20 valuable backlinks (Google likes video links!
An initiative to add red palm oil to = the diets of=20 women and children in central-eastern Burkina Faso has resulted in a = significant=20 fall in levels of vitamin A deficiency (see Spore 111). And even if a = bank were to=20 finance his agricultural project, he would have to invest his own = capital, which he=20 would be unlikely to have. The products are the 7935 version 3. The NGO = SOS Faim has=20 launched a new international campaign to highlight the devastating = effect of exports=20 of subsidised milk on livestock rearing and family agriculture in = Africa. They=20 describe ota as an easy crop to grow and say it is ideal for both = small-scale=20 farmers and people living in urban areas.
However, the field of agriculture is a = case apart.=20 In spite of their unattractive appearance, these large sea worms, which = grow up to=20 12 cm long and belong to the echinoderm family, have fallen victim to = the appetite=20 of Asian gourmets. They describe ota as an easy crop to grow and say it = is ideal for=20 both small-scale farmers and people living in urban areas.
A wide array of other ACP products = could also be=20 developed for the functional foods sector. The NGO SOS Faim has launched = a new=20 international campaign to highlight the devastating effect of exports of = subsidised=20 milk on livestock rearing and family agriculture in Africa.
Separately, a Bangladeshi court lifted = a ban on=20 licensing new VoIP carriers.
Regulators have been going through the = country over=20 the last couple of weeks shutting down all the call centers it could=20 find.
August 2006 saw the laying of the = foundation stone=20 for a renewable energy training centre on the island of Amamtuku = measuring just=20 0.
I could have written it in an hour (and = should=20 have) He made an immediate 3,000 bucks, and built his list with it. Two = biogas=20 digesters producing energy from waste, a small biodiesel production = unit, a wind=20 generator and photovoltaic cells will be installed on the islet as part = of the=20 project. Considerable scientific input is required to develop these = foods and in=20 many cases, harvesting, processing and storage technologies will need to = be=20 upgraded.
In Senegal, two large hospitals in = Dakar have begun=20 serving fonio to diabetes patients.
It was carried out during 2 weeks in = Nessuit, a=20 village in Nakuru district, in central-western Kenya. com If you have a = blog, I=20 would strongly suggest you review and comment on the list. On the = domestic front,=20 governments must work to set up and support development companies or = agricultural=20 cooperatives which can make good use of our young = graduates.
The test network demonstrated capacity = gains=20 approximately 30 times greater than mobile analog voice and results from = a fully=20 loaded commercial network could be somewhat lower. Kava is a herb from = the pepper=20 family with reputed benefits for alleviating anxiety and inducing sleep. = We need to=20 encourage the setting up of agricuItural banks to provide more flexible = financing=20 for projects.
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:37:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C77DF2.6DD56E10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 715d0e6950aaebd45af78ef9318d0186 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C77DF2.6DD56E10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C77DF2.6DD8A260" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C77DF2.6DD8A260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mac member of this name has either created a page and removed it or has = never published a HomePage. com also gives users access to design tools that help them specify = projects. Meditation and Healing Service. The swatching tool really helps to get an idea of how the furniture will = look in different colors and fabrics. Ford Presidential Museum. Starting a new year is a bit like doing spring = cleaning. The cause of death for the 38th president had not been = released. Military, Rod Powers reported on the death toll as of December 10, 2006. Please read our disclaimer and advertising policy. These types of reactions serve as reminders that as long as the person = lives in the hearts and memories of others, he or she truly hasn't died. Paul Douglas and James Brolin, May 29, 2006 - Liberal Politics: U. = Machteld Johanna Mellink February 24, 2006 - Archaeology, K. = Proclamations have been issued "Honoring the Memory. Mac member of this = name. As I was working on this section of the site, I wondered how long it = would be before we heard news about former President Ford's death. = Casualty Numbers the death toll was 2,979. You don't have to make all the changes at once. Nixon following the = resignation of Vice President Spiro Agnew. He had been diagnosed with lung cancer earlier. As I was working on this section of the site, I wondered how long it = would be before we heard news about former President Ford's death. It seems that in some aspects 2006 passed by so quickly and in others so = slowly. , A part of The New York Times Company. Get a colonoscopy: = People over 50 years of age should check with your doctor about getting = a colonoscopy to screen for colon cancer and improve your chances of = early detection. How much must an employee reveal? Following a bomb explosion on Monday, the death toll for the current war = in Iraq now exceeds the number of people killed on September 11, 2001. These are best released, rather than carried on as excess internal = baggage. So social engineering, environmental engineering, and = biomedical engineering are all equally necessary to make immortality a = reality. These three questions are equally applicable for the transition = into a New Year, as it is for a New Life. ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C77DF2.6DD8A260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"spider"
Mac member of this name has either = created a page=20 and removed it or has never published a HomePage.
com also gives users access to design = tools that=20 help them specify projects.
Meditation and Healing = Service.
The swatching tool really helps to get = an idea of=20 how the furniture will look in different colors and = fabrics.
Ford Presidential Museum. Starting a = new year is a=20 bit like doing spring cleaning. The cause of death for the 38th = president had not=20 been released.
Military, Rod Powers reported on the = death toll as=20 of December 10, 2006.
Please read our disclaimer and = advertising=20 policy.
These types of reactions serve as = reminders that as=20 long as the person lives in the hearts and memories of others, he or she = truly=20 hasn't died.
Paul Douglas and James Brolin, May 29, = 2006 -=20 Liberal Politics: U. Machteld Johanna Mellink February 24, 2006 - = Archaeology, K.=20 Proclamations have been issued "Honoring the Memory. Mac member of = this=20 name.
As I was working on this section of the = site, I=20 wondered how long it would be before we heard news about former = President Ford's=20 death. Casualty Numbers the death toll was 2,979.
You don't have to make all the changes = at once.=20 Nixon following the resignation of Vice President Spiro = Agnew.
He had been diagnosed with lung = cancer=20 earlier.
As I was working on this section of the = site, I=20 wondered how long it would be before we heard news about former = President Ford's=20 death.
It seems that in some aspects 2006 = passed by so=20 quickly and in others so slowly. , A part of The New York Times Company. = Get a=20 colonoscopy: People over 50 years of age should check with your doctor = about=20 getting a colonoscopy to screen for colon cancer and improve your = chances of early=20 detection. How much must an employee reveal?
Following a bomb explosion on Monday, = the death=20 toll for the current war in Iraq now exceeds the number of people killed = on=20 September 11, 2001.
These are best released, rather than = carried on as=20 excess internal baggage. So social engineering, environmental = engineering, and=20 biomedical engineering are all equally necessary to make immortality a = reality.=20 These three questions are equally applicable for the transition into a = New Year, as=20 it is for a New Life.
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TylfI7abf9BmFhzGM7/7mUem+osHPsRhCQIAOw==^% --%^V9^%-- From gpxjdzhow@infinito.it Fri Apr 13 17:45:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcTaQ-00006X-EB; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:45:42 -0400 Received: from [213.167.21.166] (helo=infinito.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcTZe-0003MP-9L; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:45:42 -0400 Received: from [48.217.83.122] by mxs.perenter.com with SMTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:37:57 +0100 Received: from smtp4.cyberemailings.com [138.86.214.22] by mtu67.syds.piswix.net with NNFMP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:30:30 +0100 Received: from smtp.doneohx.com ([212.106.102.128]) by smtp-server1.cfdenselr.com with SMTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:20:50 +0100 Received: from unknown (51.85.10.108) by mx03.listsystemsf.net with ESMTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:20:46 +0100 Received: from [120.111.76.227] by smtp.doneohx.com with ASMTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:13:26 +0100 Message-ID: <1BB0D422.10648446@infinito.it> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:09:03 +0100 From: "Tatyana" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Re:. Looking for fri.end? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Hire, i am here sitting in the inter!net !caffe. Found your email and decided to write. I might be coming to your place in 14 days, so I daec!ided to email you. May be we can meet? I am 25 y.o. giral. I have a picture if you want. No neaed to reply herea as thi!s is not my email. Write !me at yuivu@BounceEmail.info From jan.newmarch@gmail.com Fri Apr 13 22:55:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcYQM-0004jh-HQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:55:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcYQM-00029M-9P for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:55:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Apr 2007 22:55:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3E2tbqr014678; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:55:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3E2relG027961; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 02:53:40 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3E2oB4r012682 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:50:11 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3E2oBJ4012678 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:50:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to jan.newmarch@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.162.233 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPjdH0ZA6aLpgGdsb2JhbACQCAIJDA8WBQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,410,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="52170486:sNHT18331785" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=eHBatfQJTvrtRa178ULAiT/Of5MyminGxC1tspNQicaDBz2q1K6OJoVvS9qsAvBBj+9Yc0g8BQs7Ra2wmsAeENVWswcVckeZxlrGv10m0T4RYU0IjudvT5OBIR4p/F/vNEMgRxbrGuAyNk53vD7933NSsdJENfehaiCHWqbIO+o= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Qypr2Genr1EdeqktdtrA95lOGQDuT61KOEngD5rGSYCa4AF94W7yd/6oSe5oBEhoTgDLsMTz5hmL9n7qOS0in6SkbooSelUBjIFxEN9/UmlvMhKmfSuFQyvBUqnDXtmT2n9qw5wiSoilXQgqmlANDpah0R6z33L0kOD2EBcySi0= Message-Id: <579ea40b0704131947g305b6779hf463e4f9d87e556d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:47:01 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Fwd: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704120650n1a885e5ic357291ba806cb1f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> <461CC744.2010201@sun.com> <461D1004.9060501@cisco.com> <461E1684.5030504@sun.com> <579ea40b0704120650n1a885e5ic357291ba806cb1f@mail.gmail.com> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Hi I mistakenly thought earlier that the purpose of sctp_connectx was to maybe restrict the addresses used by the peer (thanks for corrections!). Am I now right in thinking that thet its purpose is to remove a "single point of failure" by allowing many addresses to be tried instead of just one? I just did some experiments with the Linux implementation of sctp_connectx. First, if you give multiple addresses which belong to separate hosts, an association is made to one of them (in fact the first in the list, but that doesn't matter) and the others are silently dropped. I also tried giving them different port numbers (like HTTP can be on port 80, or port 8080, ...) and as long as one of the addresses is listening on the appropriate port then an association is made and the other addresses are dropped. I know one shouldn't argue from an implementation back to a spec (the behaviour may be an accident of the implementation or test environment), but there were arguments earlier in favour of connectx being able to "pick one out of many servers, don't care which". If my understanding of the purpose of sctp_connectx is now right, it isn't so clear to me why the restriction of single host, single port is there since at least one implementation seems to follow the proposed connectx semantics. On 4/12/07, Kacheong Poon wrote: > The second level is in the app layer. When an app calls > sctp_connectx(), it just tells the stack that it wants > to talk to any one of the given addresses. The app does > not know whether all of those addresses can be confirmed > in the SCTP layer. And for sctp_connectx(), it may assume > that all the given addresses belong to the same host. But > it does not really care whether SCTP can confirm those > addresses. Jan -- From kacj@sky.plala.or.jp Sat Apr 14 04:47:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hcdup-0001Vo-Km for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 04:47:27 -0400 Received: from [85.101.224.7] (helo=lnhcta) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hcdun-0005ah-PC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 04:47:27 -0400 Received: from [75.82.98.238] (helo=egjlu) by lnhcta with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1I;e0%-0003i9-P5; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:47:48 +0300 Message-ID: <001b01c77e71$80b6b410$ee62524b@egjlu> From: "Rowland Zuniga" To: Subject: brownie pewter Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:47:15 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77E8A.A5F4A9D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a5d64674af3d12893846a18a44c07b83 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77E8A.A5F4A9D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77E8A.A5F87A60" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77E8A.A5F87A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The last condition is "share alike. If this was just going to be a concert and nothing else we wouldn't be = supporting it. The thought is that a cleaner, simpler look will be more = attractive to those new readers. Those copying anything published under a Creative Commons licence should = also pay attention to the conditions and limitations that the licence = imposes. The Assistant Privacy Commissioner found the request for photo = I. In a prime outdoor area next to Glen Affric National Nature Reserve = and Corrimony RSPB Nature Reserve, this is the ideal relaxing location = in a quiet rural setting, close to mountains and sea. If you look at = some of the client comments in my profile, there is a common theme of = giving practical advice in a field of complex, changing legal issues. = Spanish site translated by Carole Poux. We may, however, be at the = tipping point where electronic record-keeping will actually start to = reduce paper. David Canton is a business lawyer and trade-mark agent = with a technology focus at Harrison Pensa LLP. It was the registrar's = position its request for I. There are four optional conditions that authors can attach to the work = through a Creative Commons licence. 0, or Internet innovation is one of = those. The author goes to the Creative Commons website and answers a few = questions. [2007-04-14] This feed has been discontinued and you should = unsubscribe. The post talks about how and why the paperless office is = looking more like a reality. Too often, though, people have a difficult time putting things in a new = perspective. Other acts at the London leg of the Live Earth series of concerts = include James Blunt, Duran Duran, Snow Patrol, Razorlight and Damien = Rice. Comfortable accommodation only 30 minutes from Inverness by car. GREEN, SERENE, UPLIFTING . Spanish site translated by Carole Poux. 0, or Internet innovation is one = of those. GREEN, SERENE, UPLIFTING . In the first case, the issue was whether PIPEDA permits a retailer to = require someone returning goods to provide photo identification for the = purpose of combating fraudulent return of goods. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77E8A.A5F87A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"like-minded"
The last condition is "share = alike.
If this was just going to be a concert = and nothing=20 else we wouldn't be supporting it. The thought is that a cleaner, = simpler look will=20 be more attractive to those new readers.
Those copying anything published under = a Creative=20 Commons licence should also pay attention to the conditions and = limitations that the=20 licence imposes. The Assistant Privacy Commissioner found the request = for photo I.=20 In a prime outdoor area next to Glen Affric National Nature Reserve and = Corrimony=20 RSPB Nature Reserve, this is the ideal relaxing location in a quiet = rural setting,=20 close to mountains and sea. If you look at some of the client comments = in my=20 profile, there is a common theme of giving practical advice in a field = of complex,=20 changing legal issues. Spanish site translated by Carole Poux. We may, = however, be=20 at the tipping point where electronic record-keeping will actually start = to reduce=20 paper. David Canton is a business lawyer and trade-mark agent with a = technology=20 focus at Harrison Pensa LLP. It was the registrar's position its request = for=20 I.
There are four optional conditions that = authors can=20 attach to the work through a Creative Commons licence. 0, or Internet = innovation is=20 one of those.
The author goes to the Creative Commons = website and=20 answers a few questions. [2007-04-14] This feed has been discontinued = and you should=20 unsubscribe. The post talks about how and why the paperless office is = looking more=20 like a reality.
Too often, though, people have a = difficult time=20 putting things in a new perspective.
Other acts at the London leg of the = Live Earth=20 series of concerts include James Blunt, Duran Duran, Snow Patrol, = Razorlight and=20 Damien Rice. Comfortable accommodation only 30 minutes from Inverness = by=20 car.
GREEN, SERENE, UPLIFTING .
Spanish site translated by Carole Poux. = 0, or=20 Internet innovation is one of those.
GREEN, SERENE, UPLIFTING .
In the first case, the issue was = whether PIPEDA=20 permits a retailer to require someone returning goods to provide = photo=20 identification for the purpose of combating fraudulent return of=20 goods.
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type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77E8A.C26D7B50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6fc5b1c74c5bed09a3a9da2884900dec ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C77E8A.C26D7B50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77E8A.C26F2900" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77E8A.C26F2900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - News - Entertainment - 2007 Highland Games - Outdoor sports events - = Links Photo Gallery Like our site? ca has an article about the recent case that said a web site had to = charge GST to foreign customers, and the proposed change in the recent = Federal budget that would reverse that. Now that IE7 makes RSS feeds = easier to use, more people will be introduced to blogs. The second condition is noncommercial, which allows anyone to use the = other's work, but only for non-commercial purposes. Those copying = anything published under a Creative Commons licence should also pay = attention to the conditions and limitations that the licence imposes. = SHENVAL BED AND BREAKFAST . Much better if they decided they were in the = transportation business and found a way to work as part of the = automobile industry. If a buggy maker tried to fight the automobile, = they lost. It has to do with both technology, and the expectations and = habits of people. ca has an article about the recent case that said a = web site had to charge GST to foreign customers, and the proposed change = in the recent Federal budget that would reverse that. He argued the = company providing his domain name registration and management services = to his website was trying to collect more information from him than = necessary. ca, for example, is published under a Creative Commons licence. = 2007-04-14 This feed has been discontinued, please unsubscribe. Even though the store had notices posted indicating photo identification = was required for a return or exchange, there was no explanation why it = was needed or how it may be used. It involves, Stop Climate Chaos, a = coalition of campaign groups including many faith groups. - News - = Entertainment - 2007 Highland Games - Outdoor sports events - Links = Photo Gallery Like our site? As an aquaintance pointed out to me yesterday, if the EU follows through = with their effort to control roaming charges, we might be better off = getting a phone based in the EU! New technology requires us to re-think a lot of things, including = business models, laws, and how they apply. If this was just going to be = a concert and nothing else we wouldn't be supporting it. Other acts at the London leg of the Live Earth series of concerts = include James Blunt, Duran Duran, Snow Patrol, Razorlight and Damien = Rice. ca has an article about the recent case that said a web site had to = charge GST to foreign customers, and the proposed change in the recent = Federal budget that would reverse that. The complainant had purchased an = item, then returned to the store to exchange the item because it was = defective. The previous look had a lot going on, not unlike many other blogs. A couple of recent articles illustrate that point. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C77E8A.C26F2900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"annexation"
- News - Entertainment - 2007 Highland = Games -=20 Outdoor sports events - Links Photo Gallery Like our = site?
ca has an article about the recent case = that said a=20 web site had to charge GST to foreign customers, and the proposed change = in the=20 recent Federal budget that would reverse that. Now that IE7 makes RSS = feeds easier=20 to use, more people will be introduced to blogs.
The second condition is noncommercial, = which allows=20 anyone to use the other's work, but only for non-commercial purposes. = Those copying=20 anything published under a Creative Commons licence should also pay = attention to the=20 conditions and limitations that the licence imposes. SHENVAL BED AND = BREAKFAST .=20 Much better if they decided they were in the transportation business and = found a way=20 to work as part of the automobile industry. If a buggy maker tried to = fight the=20 automobile, they lost. It has to do with both technology, and the = expectations and=20 habits of people. ca has an article about the recent case that said a = web site had=20 to charge GST to foreign customers, and the proposed change in the = recent Federal=20 budget that would reverse that. He argued the company providing his = domain name=20 registration and management services to his website was trying to = collect more=20 information from him than necessary.
ca, for example, is published under a = Creative=20 Commons licence. 2007-04-14 This feed has been discontinued, please=20 unsubscribe.
Even though the store had notices = posted indicating=20 photo identification was required for a return or exchange, there was no = explanation=20 why it was needed or how it may be used. It involves, Stop Climate = Chaos, a=20 coalition of campaign groups including many faith groups. - News - = Entertainment -=20 2007 Highland Games - Outdoor sports events - Links Photo Gallery = Like our=20 site?
As an aquaintance pointed out to me = yesterday, if=20 the EU follows through with their effort to control roaming charges, we = might be=20 better off getting a phone based in the EU!
New technology requires us to re-think = a lot of=20 things, including business models, laws, and how they apply. If this was = just going=20 to be a concert and nothing else we wouldn't be supporting = it.
Other acts at the London leg of the = Live Earth=20 series of concerts include James Blunt, Duran Duran, Snow Patrol, = Razorlight and=20 Damien Rice.
ca has an article about the recent case = that said a=20 web site had to charge GST to foreign customers, and the proposed change = in the=20 recent Federal budget that would reverse that. The complainant had = purchased an=20 item, then returned to the store to exchange the item because it was=20 defective.
The previous look had a lot going on, = not unlike=20 many other blogs.
A couple of recent articles illustrate = that=20 point.
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uzvGDPt36cPn41oJ+Qazofeqm6/v550/z9iI/IER4RlTREUAADs=^% --%^V9^%-- From oihfn@wans.net Sat Apr 14 07:34:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcgWt-0000gz-Ul for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:34:55 -0400 Received: from t1276.t.pppool.de ([89.55.18.118]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcgWq-0003i1-Tz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:34:55 -0400 Received: (qmail 26542 invoked from network); Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:35:04 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO lynpo) (59.230.88.183) by T1276.t.pppool.de with SMTP; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:35:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c77e88$f23fada0$b758e63b@lynpo> From: "valor" To: Subject: I know I would've Aborted her, too, if she was my child! Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:35:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C77E99.B5B3BD20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 03fb21b15d5177c512a4caa19876f30a ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C77E99.B5B3BD20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C77E99.B5B8ED40" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C77E99.B5B8ED40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i am afraid of completely letting go, but also feel security in doing = that with Him. ""There's an elevator," Percy mutters a half-hearted = protest under his breath, but he thumps into her office anyway, shaking = his head. "No, technically, it doesn't. I haven't had too many = boyfriends. I DON'T CARE IF I EFFING RSVP'ed, AND NO I DON'T FEEL GUILTY = BECAUSE I'M A BITCH, THAT'S WHY. It turns out that the partly neglected = mansion (owned by a consortium of local councils) is up for sale, and = conversion to a luxury restaurant or leisure club must be a possibility. The lyrics loosely translated:Chorus: It had better be tonight, than = tomorrow or never. And now that seemst o have progressed. Spring has been slow coming to this region. "Seeing if my report is free of hacking. She knows full well he didn't = say anything, but Percy is a little fun to needle, now that he's moved = from loathing and despair into sullenness. Emma holds both glass and = pill out. 8((((((( Username: Password: Forgot your password? I'm still writing = it! Her daycare rejected her, and most of the individual providers I = locate are also unable to consider caring for her. I don't know all the = details, but alesa left timmy for beau. Teh Bakakage - I'm still against going Something. ""There's an elevator," Percy mutters a half-hearted protest under his = breath, but he thumps into her office anyway, shaking his head. I know = it's not a good reason. ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C77E99.B5B8ED40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"autoworker"
i am afraid of completely letting go, = but also feel=20 security in doing that with Him. ""There's an elevator," Percy mutters = a=20 half-hearted protest under his breath, but he thumps into her office = anyway, shaking=20 his head. "No, technically, it doesn't. I haven't had too many = boyfriends. I DON'T=20 CARE IF I EFFING RSVP'ed, AND NO I DON'T FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE I'M A = BITCH, THAT'S=20 WHY. It turns out that the partly neglected mansion (owned by a = consortium of local=20 councils) is up for sale, and conversion to a luxury restaurant or = leisure club must=20 be a possibility.
The lyrics loosely translated:Chorus: = It had better=20 be tonight, than tomorrow or never. And now that seemst o have=20 progressed.
Spring has been slow coming to this=20 region.
"Seeing if my report is free of = hacking. She knows=20 full well he didn't say anything, but Percy is a little fun to needle, = now that he's=20 moved from loathing and despair into sullenness. Emma holds both glass = and pill=20 out.
8((((((( Username: Password: Forgot = your=20 password? I'm still writing it! Her daycare rejected her, and most of = the individual=20 providers I locate are also unable to consider caring for her. I don't = know all the=20 details, but alesa left timmy for beau.
Teh Bakakage - I'm still against = going=20 Something.
""There's an elevator," Percy mutters = a=20 half-hearted protest under his breath, but he thumps into her office = anyway, shaking=20 his head. I know it's not a good reason.
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Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:35:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 19744 invoked from network); Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:35:50 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO cenw) (143.76.237.35) by T1276.t.pppool.de with SMTP; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:35:50 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c77e89$0d841dd0$23ed4c8f@cenw> From: "angular" To: Subject: ) Basically, we've added two new features to the site for simple and intuitive searching of our extensive database of TMBG shows and setlists. Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:35:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C77E99.D0FE47D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6907f330301e69261fa73bed91449a20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C77E99.D0FE47D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C77E99.D101F150" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C77E99.D101F150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Timmy attempted to get at me, I shot him down bad. No such luck with = that guy. He eyes Emma testily across the distance between and crankily = asks a question he really doesn't want to know the answer to. It turns = out that the partly neglected mansion (owned by a consortium of local = councils) is up for sale, and conversion to a luxury restaurant or = leisure club must be a possibility. The reason why she has to do this is = because some of the girls in the housing complex like to trash her = documents on the laptop and say that a "virus" did it instead. Ashleigh = deserves a threesome. If I had a lot of money, I could hire someone to care for her in my big = ass home, but I obviuosly can't do that. To live a simple life? And now that seemst o have progressed. " He pushes himself backwards on the bed and drags himself halfway = upright, reaching towards Emma for the water glass. It probably wouldn't = of worked out? They start tonight in Oregon and will be traveling down = to CA. I was speechless with dismay for a moment when I walked in to the lab - = the technician on patrol was the woman who actually made fun of me for = being afraid of needles, lo these many years ago. Percy pulls the pillow = partway off his face, enough to give Emma a look of inebriated = aggravation. Percy turns a look upon the bottle and the glass. Also, the = guy was a loser. With poor taste in men. Trying to save my life - Username: Password: Forgot your password? = I seemed to be attracted to people who are jerks. ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C77E99.D101F150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"X"
Timmy attempted to get at me, I shot = him down bad.=20 No such luck with that guy. He eyes Emma testily across the distance = between and=20 crankily asks a question he really doesn't want to know the answer to. = It turns out=20 that the partly neglected mansion (owned by a consortium of local = councils) is up=20 for sale, and conversion to a luxury restaurant or leisure club must be = a=20 possibility. The reason why she has to do this is because some of the = girls in the=20 housing complex like to trash her documents on the laptop and say that a = "virus" did=20 it instead. Ashleigh deserves a threesome.
If I had a lot of money, I could hire = someone to=20 care for her in my big ass home, but I obviuosly can't do that. To live = a simple=20 life?
And now that seemst o have = progressed.
" He pushes himself backwards on the = bed and drags=20 himself halfway upright, reaching towards Emma for the water glass. It = probably=20 wouldn't of worked out? They start tonight in Oregon and will be = traveling down to=20 CA.
I was speechless with dismay for a = moment when I=20 walked in to the lab - the technician on patrol was the woman who = actually made fun=20 of me for being afraid of needles, lo these many years ago. Percy pulls = the pillow=20 partway off his face, enough to give Emma a look of inebriated = aggravation. Percy=20 turns a look upon the bottle and the glass. Also, the guy was a = loser.
With poor taste in men.
Trying to save my life - Username: = Password: =20 Forgot your password? I seemed to be attracted to people who are=20 jerks.
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charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 Hillo0 9cd From intellectnews.com@goodvibesvideo.com Sat Apr 14 12:52:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HclUf-0007Fy-6Y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:52:57 -0400 Received: from ip-81-170-18-11.cust.homechoice.net ([81.170.18.11] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HclUc-0001DQ-3p for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:52:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77eb5$6f9ba480$0100007f@localhost> From: "Julian Green" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:53:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77EB5.6F9BA480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 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MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a ------=_NextPart_000_0002_03D6D76F.C78E7BE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_1OEBOUND;" ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable every shot in the world,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. ''They are hard to ,000 to ex-Wolverines Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT Fire Mountain Bev Company SYmb- F_B_V_G Extremely b ullish at 2 Cents HANS Started at penny and reached $40 AN ALL AMERICAN COMPANY Get IN Before the rush TOMORROW Louis Bullock in what the NCAA said was the largest financial scandal in 13-for-20. And many of the shots were alley-oop dunks and rim-rattling jams scandal, the school's lackluster facilities and Ellerbe's awful recruiting. one of the top teams, if not the top team. To beat a team like that is really ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = = =
= every shot in the world,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. ''They are hard to ,000 to ex-Wolverines Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and =
=
= Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT =
Fire Mountain Bev Company=
SYmb- F_B_V_G =
Extremely b ullish at 2 Cents=
=
=
HANS Started at penny and reached $40=
=
=

= Add this to your radar, Dont miss this one like HANS and FIZ=
=
=
AN ALL AMERICAN COMPANY
= Remember Snapple when it started??
=
=
= Get IN Before the rush Monday (16th)
=
= Louis Bullock in what the NCAA said was the largest financial scandal in 13-for-20. And many of the shots were alley-oop dunks and rim-rattling jams scandal, the school's lackluster facilities and Ellerbe's awful recruiting. one of the top teams, if not the top team. To beat a team like that is really=
= ------=_1OEBOUND;-- From rfwk@optonline.net Sun Apr 15 00:49:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hcwfk-0005kN-GB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:49:08 -0400 Received: from ner-as35009.alshamil.net.ae ([86.97.234.211]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcwfV-0002UD-FT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:49:08 -0400 Received: from [81.186.212.113] (helo=gov) by ner-as35009.alshamil.net.ae with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1I;02=-0005iU-Qc; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:52:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c77f75$6f559790$71d4ba51@gov> From: "Delacruz K. Douglas" To: Subject: procrastination Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:47:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C77F3A.C2F1DD90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ba0ec39a747b7612d6a8ae66d1a873c ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C77F3A.C2F1DD90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C77F3A.C2F31610" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C77F3A.C2F31610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This excellent and inexpensive wine is great - if you don't tell others = it's price they'll think it worth more than you paid. Great for getting that document to someone without physically delivering = it. Nope, it was just a toddler running amok with a harried mom = seemingly obvious to the screams. People die - which was a bit surprising given we're used to everyone = miraculously surviving, but still we have a love interest, some sort = fighting, some despair, some history. It was a charming story, with bright colours, lots of culture (it all = seems different from Canada), good characters. ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C77F3A.C2F31610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"omission"
This excellent and inexpensive wine is = great - if=20 you don't tell others it's price they'll think it worth more than you=20 paid.
Great for getting that document to = someone without=20 physically delivering it. Nope, it was just a toddler running amok with = a harried=20 mom seemingly obvious to the screams.
People die - which was a bit surprising = given we're=20 used to everyone miraculously surviving, but still we have a love = interest, some=20 sort fighting, some despair, some history.
It was a charming story, with bright = colours, lots=20 of culture (it all seems different from Canada), good=20 characters.
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Using metaphors to describe From hscd@one.net Sun Apr 15 19:54:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdEYR-0002cF-2l for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:54:47 -0400 Received: from 24-151-126-237.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com ([24.151.126.237]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdEYP-0007gj-FG for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:54:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 26520 invoked from network); Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:54:16 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO sho) (37.169.124.200) by 24-151-126-237.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com with SMTP; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:54:16 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c77fb9$60212250$c87ca925@sho> From: "nudge" To: Subject: So off I go tomorrow for my first added value injection and assuming I can still use the keyboard I will let you know how it went. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:54:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C77F7E.B3AFFAD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: fa183e2955b1d12e35b5783ab5b4f6df ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C77F7E.B3AFFAD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C77F7E.B3B48EB0" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C77F7E.B3B48EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pancakes should be eaten once a year, eggs should be for lunch and = whoever invented choco cereals should be sent to a special place. = Yesterday as usual, the smart uniformed man at my office door greeted me = by looking straight through me so I nodded, went in and sat at my desk. Just as was looking forward to rejoining the human race and had a = serious amount to say, the chap who deals with my illness schedules, = woke up and decided to become active. Bother (cancergiggles. com) Cancergiggles is an idiot's guide to accepting, living with, = laughing at and dying from cancer. Eventually we crawled over the bridge and now a very fast drive was = called for. Cancer is marvellousNHSTheft of body partsThe hotnessHow Long to Live? = Eventually (Cal still had to get back for a midnight ferry from Calais) = we decided to jump ship and walk. I have discovered that I have a very = violent reaction to gluten so the Head Wizard has ordered up some tests = for Celiac disease and I have gone on a gluten free diet. I will know = more after a meeting of all the wizards who will discuss my case = shortly. Access Error Headline functionality has been disabled from your = intranet. This had all the makings of a biggy. ABRACAMEDICUS (cancergiggles. I have discovered that I have a very violent reaction to gluten so the = Head Wizard has ordered up some tests for Celiac disease and I have gone = on a gluten free diet. The chronological order in which things happen is = only relevant to me if it means I can then affect subsequent events. Andy has a sense of humour and tells me the truth. WIZARD SOUP = (cancergiggles. Hospital beds not designed for humans and completely = unable to go unconscious. Perhaps they are a hive? The past few weeks = have been rather full of things and happenings. A comforting knowledge = that should you need them, they are likely to appear as if teleported to = your side and if not, well, maybe they are just watching. A Superior Vena Cava is apparently a bit serious. No, there is nothing bizarre about this scene. Clearance = (cancergiggles. There is an important point here. ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C77F7E.B3B48EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"ponder"
Pancakes should be eaten once a year, = eggs should=20 be for lunch and whoever invented choco cereals should be sent to a = special place.=20 Yesterday as usual, the smart uniformed man at my office door greeted me = by looking=20 straight through me so I nodded, went in and sat at my = desk.
Just as was looking forward to = rejoining the human=20 race and had a serious amount to say, the chap who deals with my illness = schedules,=20 woke up and decided to become active.
Bother (cancergiggles.
com) Cancergiggles is an idiot's guide = to=20 accepting, living with, laughing at and dying from cancer.
Eventually we crawled over the bridge = and now a=20 very fast drive was called for.
Cancer is marvellousNHSTheft of body = partsThe=20 hotnessHow Long to Live? Eventually (Cal still had to get back for a = midnight ferry=20 from Calais) we decided to jump ship and walk. I have discovered that I = have a very=20 violent reaction to gluten so the Head Wizard has ordered up some tests = for Celiac=20 disease and I have gone on a gluten free diet. I will know more after a = meeting of=20 all the wizards who will discuss my case shortly. Access Error = Headline=20 functionality has been disabled from your intranet. This had all the = makings of a=20 biggy.
ABRACAMEDICUS = (cancergiggles.
I have discovered that I have a very = violent=20 reaction to gluten so the Head Wizard has ordered up some tests for = Celiac disease=20 and I have gone on a gluten free diet. The chronological order in which = things=20 happen is only relevant to me if it means I can then affect = subsequent=20 events.
Andy has a sense of humour and tells me = the truth.=20 WIZARD SOUP (cancergiggles. Hospital beds not designed for humans and = completely=20 unable to go unconscious. Perhaps they are a hive? The past few weeks = have been=20 rather full of things and happenings. A comforting knowledge that should = you need=20 them, they are likely to appear as if teleported to your side and if = not, well,=20 maybe they are just watching.
A Superior Vena Cava is apparently a = bit=20 serious.
No, there is nothing bizarre about this = scene.=20 Clearance (cancergiggles. There is an important point=20 here.
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1HdL3I-0000oc-6w for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:51:04 -0400 Received: from cpe-70-95-78-175.hawaii.res.rr.com ([70.95.78.175]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdL3G-00043Y-Hb for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:51:04 -0400 Received: from uxb ([121.88.58.52]) by cpe-70-95-78-175.hawaii.res.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:51:36 -1000 Message-ID: <000701c77ff3$ad965700$343a5879@uxb> From: "Valentine" To: Subject: Music from Weird ScienceAnalyze IMDB's Top 100Your DVD CollectionI love it when our News stories make it on RT! Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:51:36 -1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C77F9F.DBDFE6C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8d89ee9312a95de8ee48d1c94511f1bb ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C77F9F.DBDFE6C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77F9F.DBE27ED0" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77F9F.DBE27ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kurt Russell, Rose McGowan, Freddy Rodriguez, Marley Shelton, and Naveen = Andrews headline the two separate films. Live Free or Die Hard 20. Night at the MuseumWidescreen Edition 20. They feel make or break, therefore they feel worth doing. 3 million, = according to Box Office Mojo. I knew that they may present a big problem because people aren't going = to necessarily groove with that. Thursday, April 12th, 2007 - And you thought the first version was good. Allowing it to be something that's almost a standalone. Smokin' Aces was = much more, at least in my mind, experimental. Peril escalates when the Plutonians team up with the Cybernetic Ghost of = Christmas Past to strive for ultimate control of the sinister deadly = device. " At least it's provoking a response. The film is part of an intended three-picture deal between Lionsgate and = Kinkade. ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C77F9F.DBE27ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"impure"
Kurt Russell, Rose McGowan, Freddy = Rodriguez,=20 Marley Shelton, and Naveen Andrews headline the two separate films. Live = Free or Die=20 Hard 20.
Night at the MuseumWidescreen = Edition=20 20.
They feel make or break, therefore they = feel worth=20 doing. 3 million, according to Box Office Mojo.
I knew that they may present a big = problem because=20 people aren't going to necessarily groove with that.
Thursday, April 12th, 2007 - And you = thought the=20 first version was good.
Allowing it to be something that's = almost a=20 standalone. Smokin' Aces was much more, at least in my mind,=20 experimental.
Peril escalates when the Plutonians = team up with=20 the Cybernetic Ghost of Christmas Past to strive for ultimate control of = the=20 sinister deadly device. " At least it's provoking a = response.
The film is part of an intended = three-picture deal=20 between Lionsgate and Kinkade.
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NzibEYQHQXu2C3S0WLqzT2GdPzs9UpuH17q+Vru2n4GyB4S3ezm6Dzqun3pmBTvxCFC0zPu9B7uc 4fuG1Du07Pu/H7q+A/yF9LtND/zBY7hZhAAAOw==^% --%^V9^%-- From dhscd@orangemail.sk Mon Apr 16 08:32:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdQO8-0000rt-K9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:32:56 -0400 Received: from 82.24.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch ([83.77.24.82]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdQO6-0001Ud-8D for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:32:56 -0400 Received: from [40.236.89.145] (helo=qedtz) by 82.24.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1I;Tm-0001Vc-A3; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:37:32 +0200 Message-ID: <001d01c78023$63008e60$9159ec28@qedtz> From: "Nance S. Crowley" To: Subject: placid ravage Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:33:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78034.26749DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 442d80051e0361a34f3560325c4a7092 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78034.26749DE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C78034.2679CE00" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C78034.2679CE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 6, 2007 09:45 AM Digg This! Figure 23 shows the life cycle of a portlet = page when an action (postback) is invoked and the same portlet page is = to be rendered. Select the Data Table component. 0: All of its content is user-driven, = and it allows users to tag the data in a way that makes sense to them. Rich Web GUI With Ajax You have likely visited web sites that have to = reload entire pages every time you click a menu item or link. As shown = in Figure 1, the home page contains a tag cloud on the right side of the = page, which displays the most popular tags. By exploring the use cases, design, and implementation of the Pet Store = 2. Data Backing Beans Data backing beans are different from user = interface backing beans. A web site then makes this RSS feed available = to those who want headline links to that data. Data Backing Bean Scope and Life Cycle Because a data backing bean is = not associated to a JSP page, a data backing bean has a different life = cycle from a page bean. Here, Ajax allows the user to easily navigate = through various pet subcategories. In the Servers window, right-click a database table from the Data = Sources node and select Add to Page from the context menu. 0 Expo, a combined conference and tradeshow for the technology and = business community. This way, the user can fix all the errors at once, instead of fixing one = error at a time and then resubmitting the form to see whether any other = errors exist. 0 demo and demonstrates how the content is user-driven and = user-organized, as well as user-policed. Historically, web sites started = as a collection of HTML pages that simply provided information about a = company or topic. The JavaScript technology may then use this data to update or modify the = Document Object Model (DOM) of the HTML page. ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C78034.2679CE00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"squash"
6, 2007 09:45 AM Digg This! Figure 23 = shows the=20 life cycle of a portlet page when an action (postback) is invoked and = the same=20 portlet page is to be rendered.
Select the Data Table component. 0: = All of its=20 content is user-driven, and it allows users to tag the data in a way = that makes=20 sense to them.
Rich Web GUI With Ajax You have likely = visited web=20 sites that have to reload entire pages every time you click a menu item = or link. As=20 shown in Figure 1, the home page contains a tag cloud on the right side = of the page,=20 which displays the most popular tags.
By exploring the use cases, design, = and=20 implementation of the Pet Store 2. Data Backing Beans Data backing = beans are=20 different from user interface backing beans. A web site then makes this = RSS feed=20 available to those who want headline links to that data.
Data Backing Bean Scope and Life Cycle = Because a=20 data backing bean is not associated to a JSP page, a data backing bean = has a=20 different life cycle from a page bean. Here, Ajax allows the user to = easily navigate=20 through various pet subcategories.
In the Servers window, right-click a = database table=20 from the Data Sources node and select Add to Page from the context=20 menu.
0 Expo, a combined conference and = tradeshow for the=20 technology and business community.
This way, the user can fix all the = errors at once,=20 instead of fixing one error at a time and then resubmitting the form to = see whether=20 any other errors exist.
0 demo and demonstrates how the content = is=20 user-driven and user-organized, as well as user-policed. Historically, = web sites=20 started as a collection of HTML pages that simply provided information = about a=20 company or topic.
The JavaScript technology may then use = this data to=20 update or modify the Document Object Model (DOM) of the HTML=20 page.
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Velasquez" To: Subject: iota adoption Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:33:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78034.41A1B580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9e1884bf469cda400682762c3e8d96c9 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78034.41A1B580 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C78034.41A49BB0" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C78034.41A49BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich Web GUI With Ajax You have likely visited web sites that have to = reload entire pages every time you click a menu item or link. In = addition, the Java Pet Store demo uses an Ajax user interface (UI) = throughout the application to provide a richer user experience that = resembles a desktop application. Use of Ajax on this form allows word completion in the form's city = field. Ajax uses JavaScript technology with an HTML page to = asynchronously make calls to the server and fetch data. Server-Side Validation The validation that was performed on the client = side is reimplemented on the server side. NET Developer's Journal - . Run the Flower Store sample application to see these components in = action. Select the Data Table component. Standard components have been = maintained in Java Studio Creator 2 so that pages from projects = developed with Java Studio Creator 2004Q2 can work without = modifications. Interactive development environment enabling server and client-side = Javascript support to create dynamic web applications. This new rating = is then displayed for all subsequent views. To see a list of components bundled in Java Studio Creator, see this = page. In addition, other technology luminaries will be present to discuss the = future of developer tools and rich client platforms. Features and Functionality Figure 3 shows the page that displays when = you click on the category Dogs. When the process is complete, a Thank You page displays the photo that = the user uploaded and a link to the page that displays that photo. 0, = web sites are becoming user-driven, not owner-driven. On the shadow pane, the user also has the ability to use the PayPal = service to send payment to the seller. ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C78034.41A49BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"catwalk"
Rich Web GUI With Ajax You have likely = visited web=20 sites that have to reload entire pages every time you click a menu item = or link. In=20 addition, the Java Pet Store demo uses an Ajax user interface (UI) = throughout the=20 application to provide a richer user experience that resembles a = desktop=20 application.
Use of Ajax on this form allows word = completion in=20 the form's city field. Ajax uses JavaScript technology with an HTML page = to=20 asynchronously make calls to the server and fetch data.
Server-Side Validation The validation = that was=20 performed on the client side is reimplemented on the server side. NET = Developer's=20 Journal - .
Run the Flower Store sample = application to see=20 these components in action. Select the Data Table component. Standard = components=20 have been maintained in Java Studio Creator 2 so that pages from = projects developed=20 with Java Studio Creator 2004Q2 can work without = modifications.
Interactive development environment = enabling server=20 and client-side Javascript support to create dynamic web applications. = This new=20 rating is then displayed for all subsequent views.
To see a list of components bundled in = Java Studio=20 Creator, see this page.
In addition, other technology = luminaries will be=20 present to discuss the future of developer tools and rich client=20 platforms.
Features and Functionality Figure 3 = shows the page=20 that displays when you click on the category Dogs.
When the process is complete, a Thank = You page=20 displays the photo that the user uploaded and a link to the page that = displays that=20 photo. 0, web sites are becoming user-driven, not = owner-driven.
On the shadow pane, the user also has = the ability=20 to use the PayPal service to send payment to the = seller.
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bU6Wh/7fHd2sTEv0+97Wfs7v2W7iXL2TIY/KfA6/ObunTQ2HRljmF+/sZF/5uU7x0w2snF/OqD/p V/7RT4/g4Vr6xA7hUY7b0Pv14w31Yh/rsv/oupuHXD/77W7RQjipyt/izN/8aRcCADs=^% --%^V9^%-- From prheumatism@cen.quik.com Mon Apr 16 16:39:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdXz8-0003F8-In for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:39:38 -0400 Received: from 165-188-222-201.adsl.terra.cl ([201.222.188.165] helo=cen.quik.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdXz1-00011M-RT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:39:38 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c78045$ed8eb580$06c0643c@casa> From: "Liz Bishop" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Of make myself delineate Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:40:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 It is going to be HUGE Special Situation Alert TMXO Trimax. are providers of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) communication technologies. OTC:TMXO - Last: 0.185 Technologies that use the power grid to deliver 128-bit encrypted high-speed symmetrical broadband for data, voice and video transmission. This is a sector to be in! All material herein were prepared by us based upon information believed to be reliable but not guaranteed to be accurate and should not be considered to be all inclusive. This opinion contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.You could lose all your money. We are not a licensed broker, broker dealer, market maker, investment banker, investment advisor, analyst or underwriter. Please consult a broker before purchasing or selling any securities viewed or mentioned herein. We are negotiating a cash price for this advertisement in the near future,but at this time have received nothing. Third parties, affiliates, officers, directors and employees may also own or may buy the shares discussed in this opinion and intend to sell or profit in the event those shares rise or decrease in value _____ Short-Term Bullish? sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker now From qest@econvert.net Mon Apr 16 16:46:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdY5y-0005kf-9L for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:46:42 -0400 Received: from 62-31-74-155.cable.ubr04.wals.blueyonder.co.uk ([62.31.74.155] helo=econvert.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdY5v-0006u6-OO for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:46:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c78070$a61672d0$00698714@khuyrul56ecd73> From: "Angelica Ball" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: It and mill Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:46:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 This one is hardly promoted Special Situation Alert TMXO Trimax. are providers of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) communication technologies. OTC:TMXO - Last: 0.185 Technologies that use the power grid to deliver 128-bit encrypted high-speed symmetrical broadband for data, voice and video transmission. This is a sector to be in! All material herein were prepared by us based upon information believed to be reliable but not guaranteed to be accurate and should not be considered to be all inclusive. This opinion contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.You could lose all your money. We are not a licensed broker, broker dealer, market maker, investment banker, investment advisor, analyst or underwriter. Please consult a broker before purchasing or selling any securities viewed or mentioned herein. We are negotiating a cash price for this advertisement in the near future,but at this time have received nothing. Third parties, affiliates, officers, directors and employees may also own or may buy the shares discussed in this opinion and intend to sell or profit in the event those shares rise or decrease in value - - - Short-Term Bullish? TMXO have released very hot news. Check this out, sctp-impl-archive and call to your brocker right now From hiustationary@aquatravel-insurance.nl Mon Apr 16 17:55:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdZAl-000134-Ib; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:55:43 -0400 Received: from 201-92-158-248.dsl.telesp.net.br ([201.92.158.248] helo=aquatravel-insurance.nl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdZAj-0005Vn-BP; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:55:42 -0400 Message-ID: <05cc01c78102$3cfa01b0$6389b1b0@mdiodei> Reply-To: "Winifred UMariana" From: "Winifred UMariana" To: , Subject: Re: do incense Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:56:04 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, many people are already in the know Here's your chance, the next soda giant Fire Mountain Bev Company Sym-FBVG 2 Cents is a STEAL This is projected to go to $.70 in short alone, for long look at HANS and FIZ Remember Snapple, this will be bigger Get in Tuesday don't Miss it again People are already loading up, you should too!! games and eight of their next nine. ''This does a lot for our confidence,'' is 46 points against Chicago on Nov. 24 while he was still with the Sixers. He throwing rocks in an ocean.'' The Suns have lost twice - by a combined 46 the duo's best performance since the holiday trade that brought them together ----- Original Message ----- From: "Winifred UMariana" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: do incense > Here's your chance, the next soda giant > Fire Mountain Bev Company > Sym-FBVG > 2 Cents is a STEAL > This is projected to go to $.70 in short alone, for long look at HANS and FIZ From albiaxgs@service.net.ge Tue Apr 17 03:57:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdiZS-00038s-Ae for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:57:50 -0400 Received: from [85.238.37.4] (helo=4-37.service.net.ge) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdiZQ-0001Ni-KZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:57:50 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c780f0$25af72b0$0224edcc@754NCh> From: "Adrienne Tolbert" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: To yourself hermanville Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:58:51 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2969 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Hellish report is here Special Situation Alert TMXO Trimax. are providers of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) communication technologies. OTC:TMXO - Last: 0.185 Technologies that use the power grid to deliver 128-bit encrypted high-speed symmetrical broadband for data, voice and video transmission. This is a sector to be in! All material herein were prepared by us based upon information believed to be reliable but not guaranteed to be accurate and should not be considered to be all inclusive. This opinion contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.You could lose all your money. We are not a licensed broker, broker dealer, market maker, investment banker, investment advisor, analyst or underwriter. Please consult a broker before purchasing or selling any securities viewed or mentioned herein. We are negotiating a cash price for this advertisement in the near future,but at this time have received nothing. Third parties, affiliates, officers, directors and employees may also own or may buy the shares discussed in this opinion and intend to sell or profit in the event those shares rise or decrease in value - - - Signs show that this one could Explode! TMXO have released very hot news. Check this out, sctp-impl-archive and call to your brocker right now From Hawkins@kichimail.com Tue Apr 17 04:39:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdjDv-0002rh-UV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:39:39 -0400 Received: from [59.23.149.14] (helo=[59.23.149.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdjDu-0002xC-9h for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:39:39 -0400 Received: from pc16 (pc16 [59.23.149.14]) by pc16 (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i06B532890A506 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:39:44 +0900 (envelope-from Hawkins@kichimail.com) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:39:44 +0900 From: Alisa Reply-To: Alisa X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <106124547.20070417173944@kichimail.com> To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Esta es una buena oportunidad de ganar en tiempo parcial, accesible desde 13.04.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Buenos dias

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Alexa From occq@honeywell.com Tue Apr 17 05:44:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkEy-0006eU-5H for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:44:48 -0400 Received: from [216.41.18.10] (helo=mail.bifloor.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkEv-0006ZT-0D for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:44:48 -0400 Received: from okq ([99.226.41.175]) by mail.bifloor.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:44:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c780d5$0adccb60$af29e263@okq> From: "Miles Bessie" To: Subject: 0u7 and 6, we have family clsid support for the 1. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:44:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C780B3.83BC8560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 155726d2f5fe5eb5c40a9f079fd9e841 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C780B3.83BC8560 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C780B3.83C02EE0" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C780B3.83C02EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The KeyInfoFactory class is an abstract factory that is used to create = objects that implement these interfaces. So potentially it is possible = to get the source code for the applet. You can check the version of the = JRE installed on your computer by going to the window's control panel = and double clicking on the Java cup icon. Otherwise, the signature would include itself in the data to be signed, = which is not correct. Another example of a useful transform algorithm is the XPath Filter = transform, which allows you to specify an XPath expression that selects = a subset of nodes to be signed. This can be caused by an incorrect = validation key or a change to the SignedInfo contents since the = signature was generated. What is the best and easiest way for users to install it? This is due to = the differences in the browser design. For IE, you can have multiple IE = processes (iexplore. Would you please send me the link if there is one? How can I protect my applet to be converted into application. For = security reasons the plugin would only allow downloading libraries if = the all of the jars making up the applet are signed and the user has = accepted the 'warning' prompt. My question is if anyone can manipulate my classes which have public = variables. The article will also use this sample in the subsequent sections on = using the API. validate(valContext); First, you must find the location of the Signature = element that you wish to validate. See the XML Digital Signature API overview for more information on = service providers. load(new FileInputStream("mykeystore. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C780B3.83C02EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"agriculture"
The KeyInfoFactory class is an = abstract factory=20 that is used to create objects that implement these interfaces. So = potentially it=20 is possible to get the source code for the applet. You can check the = version of=20 the JRE installed on your computer by going to the window's control = panel and=20 double clicking on the Java cup icon.
Otherwise, the signature would include = itself in=20 the data to be signed, which is not correct.
Another example of a useful transform = algorithm is=20 the XPath Filter transform, which allows you to specify an XPath = expression that=20 selects a subset of nodes to be signed. This can be caused by an = incorrect=20 validation key or a change to the SignedInfo contents since the = signature was =20 generated.
What is the best and easiest way for = users to=20 install it? This is due to the differences in the browser design. For = IE, you can=20 have multiple IE processes (iexplore. Would you please send me the link = if there is=20 one?
How can I protect my applet to be = converted into=20 application. For security reasons the plugin would only allow = downloading libraries =20 if the all of the jars making up the applet are signed and the user has = accepted the=20 'warning' prompt.
My question is if anyone can = manipulate my classes=20 which have public variables.
The article will also use this sample = in the=20 subsequent sections on using the API.
validate(valContext); First, you must = find the=20 location of the Signature element that you wish to = validate.
See the XML Digital Signature API = overview for=20 more information on service providers.
load(new=20 FileInputStream("mykeystore.
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H3G4i75oHrSYgZP4i6kQCAA7 oﾘK^% --%^V9^%-- From skt@be.bricker.com Tue Apr 17 05:45:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkFX-0006oN-Sq for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:45:23 -0400 Received: from [216.41.18.10] (helo=mail.bifloor.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdkFV-0006rE-Aa for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:45:23 -0400 Received: from xeqcd ([59.124.32.88]) by mail.bifloor.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:45:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c780d5$206b97e0$58207c3b@xeqcd> From: "Maynard Etta" To: Subject: What I was trying to download was the 5. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:45:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C780B3.994F97A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 5fb88b8381f3896aeacc5a021513237b ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C780B3.994F97A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C780B3.99522FB0" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C780B3.99522FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not sure at this point what my options are. My question is if = anyone can manipulate my classes which have public variables. Also see = the document Supported System Configurations in Java 2 Platform v1. 6 you've changed the way version is stated. If so, will Java Plug-In applications be able to share data with Java = Web Start? Calvin Cheung: In general, we recommend our customers to = migrate to the latest family of JRE at their earliest convenience. If I did not understand your use case scenario, please send me more = details on the steps your user takes to "change the active JRE setting. = The XMLSignatureFactory class is an abstract factory that is used to = create objects that implement these interfaces. Margarita Fisher: Java = Plug-in is part of the JRE. See Ethan Nicholas's blog. dom Contains DOM-specific classes for the javax. I've tried changing the = configuration on Java Control Panel -JNLP configuration, but this = doesn't work. 0 runtime required by XBAPs is pre-installed on Windows Vista systems = and will supposedly be installed via auto-update in Windows XP, so no = download is required). For example, if it is . If the signature is invalid, some additional code is necessary to = determine the cause of the failure, as Code Sample 6 shows. For Firefox, you can only start one Firefox process (firefox. For Firefox, you can only start one Firefox process (firefox. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C780B3.99522FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"emcee"
I'm not sure at this point what my = options are. My=20 question is if anyone can manipulate my classes which have public = variables. Also=20 see the document Supported System Configurations in Java 2 Platform=20 v1.
6 you've changed the way version is=20 stated.
If so, will Java Plug-In applications = be able to=20 share data with Java Web Start? Calvin Cheung: In general, we recommend = our=20 customers to migrate to the latest family of JRE at their earliest=20 convenience.
If I did not understand your use case = scenario,=20 please send me more details on the steps your user takes to "change the = active JRE=20 setting. The XMLSignatureFactory class is an abstract factory that is = used to=20 create objects that implement these interfaces. Margarita Fisher: Java = Plug-in is=20 part of the JRE. See Ethan Nicholas's blog.
dom Contains DOM-specific classes for = the javax.=20 I've tried changing the configuration on Java Control Panel -JNLP = configuration, but=20 this doesn't work.
0 runtime required by XBAPs is = pre-installed on=20 Windows Vista systems and will supposedly be installed via auto-update = in Windows=20 XP, so no download is required).
For example, if it is .
If the signature is invalid, some = additional code=20 is necessary to determine the cause of the failure, as Code Sample 6=20 shows.
For Firefox, you can only start one = Firefox=20 process (firefox.
For Firefox, you can only start one = Firefox=20 process (firefox.
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WcpTls2TrQwaKu/nyjIJCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78107.164D5730-- From Barr@malaysia.net Tue Apr 17 08:54:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdnC9-0005u5-5B for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:54:05 -0400 Received: from 201-2-228-5.fnsce7003.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br ([201.2.228.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdnC7-0000EO-Bz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:54:05 -0400 Received: from particul-7atkbr (particul-7atkbr [10.1.1.124]) by particul-7atkbr (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2A8E251584146 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:54:28 -0300 (envelope-from Barr@malaysia.net) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:54:28 -0300 From: Roscoe Reply-To: Roscoe X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <299145978.20070417095428@malaysia.net> To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Esta es una buena oportunidad de ganar en tiempo parcial, accesible desde 13.04.07 MIME-Version: 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Alexa From info@mecom.ae Tue Apr 17 16:28:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HduI3-00043p-Hd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:28:39 -0400 Received: from domail1.emirates.net.ae ([213.42.1.90]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HduHz-0004vW-8m for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:28:39 -0400 Received: from apmail3.emirates.net.ae ([195.229.241.52]) by domail1.emirates.net.ae (I&ES Mail Server 4.2) with ESMTP id <0JGN00CMFSTZE800@domail1.emirates.net.ae> for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:27:35 +0400 (GST) Received: from Mecom05 (dxb-b110726.alshamil.net.ae [83.110.234.58]) by apmail3.emirates.net.ae (I&ES Mail Server 4.2) with SMTP id <0JGN003Y9STQENB0@apmail3.emirates.net.ae> for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:27:35 +0400 (GST) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:23:21 +0400 From: MECOM Subject: MECOM 2007 To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailList Controller Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_PZHb9S0S5x4J1AZ/xhbtxg)" X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_PZHb9S0S5x4J1AZ/xhbtxg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_PZHb9S0S5x4J1AZ/xhbtxg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Middle East Telecoms & Business Coms Exhibition & Conference

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--Boundary_(ID_PZHb9S0S5x4J1AZ/xhbtxg)-- From torger@ludd.ltu.se Tue Apr 17 16:30:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HduJe-00054e-PK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:30:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HduJd-0005Wl-EH for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:30:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Apr 2007 16:30:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3HKUGP1008454; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:30:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3HKSqGd022874; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:28:52 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3HKP1vL019105 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:25:01 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3HKP1rQ019101 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:25:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAL3JJEbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,419,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53241984:sNHT19139184" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Partial delivery API unclear User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:13:17 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should work. It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on which one it should be: A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be interleaved. B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial deliveries with no restrictions. Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many sockets only). 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from another stream. 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream but unordered. Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest socket API draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially delivered." The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). Actually, Solaris 10 seems to never deliver unordered messages partially (at least if the input buffer is large enough), if you feed it with unordered messages a bit larger than SO_RCVBUF is, the association will indeed hang, and if tried a few times a crash can be provoked, so I guess that the actual plan is to deliver unordered messages partially and that it does not is a bug. (Test performed: send a 103001 byte unordered message from a Linux 2.6.10 machine to a Solaris 10 machine with default SO_RCVBUF size of 102400 bytes, association will hang. Ok, it does not make sense with that large unordered messages, but I'm here to stress the API... I would guess the test can be done between two Solaris machines too, just increase SO_SNDBUF on the sending machine). However, the newer socket API drafts also add the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE socket option: "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is doing fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off, no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may come from a different association (thus the user must receive data with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which association each receive belongs to." The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave on a one-to-one socket. Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly contradicts itself, and leaves me confused. As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer for one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a need to hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking when dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it makes the life easier for the API user. Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, and how are other stack implementations working in this area? /Anders Torger From bidulock@openss7.org Tue Apr 17 16:48:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdubK-0005i5-5x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:48:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdubI-0003WJ-UO for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:48:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Apr 2007 16:48:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3HKmVLZ008447; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:48:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3HKmAlG018753; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:48:10 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3HKktYN019480 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:46:55 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3HKkt29019476 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:46:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAJbOJEaOs8fgdGdsb2JhbACQCgE X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,419,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80118696:sNHT306060336" Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Message-Id: <20070417144327.A15684@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se>; from torger@ludd.ltu.se on Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 10:13:17PM +0200 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Anders, On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Anders Torger wrote: > A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > interleaved. > > B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial > deliveries with no restrictions. > Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, and how > are other stack implementations working in this area? The OpenSS7 stacks both follow model B. However, if you are concerned with what is coming next, why not use MSG_PEEK? --brian -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Tue Apr 17 17:14:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdv0S-0004nv-7o for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:14:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdv0P-0004pc-Vh for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:14:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Apr 2007 17:14:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3HLETcs022264; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:14:29 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3HLECGd007067; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:14:12 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3HLDmgK019957 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:13:49 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3HLDmET019953 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:13:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAELVJEacmf/VoWdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,420,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53255154:sNHT38174859" Message-Id: <46253826.2050805@hp.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:12:06 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Anders Torger wrote: > It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should > work. > > It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on > which one it should be: > > A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > interleaved. > > B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial > deliveries with no restrictions. Hi Anders Hm... looking at LKSCTP, I am really not sure what the default mode of operation is. It's leaning towards A, but not strictly. Here is what LKSCTP does in the scenario you listed below: > > Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if > recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that > delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: > > 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. same in LKSCTP > 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many > sockets only). Only if SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is enabled. The option is disabled by default. > 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from > another stream. Nope, not in lksctp. > 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream > but unordered. Actually, only a full message (ie. it was never fragmented) that was unordered has a chance to interleave with PD in lksctp implementation. Looking at this one further, this might actually be a bug in the implementation. You are right. There are definitely some wiggle room in the interpretation; however, I don't think that following model A is wrong. -vlad From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Tue Apr 17 18:10:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdvsm-0003T1-Sc for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:10:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdvsm-0006Uu-GS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:10:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Apr 2007 18:10:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3HMAdfR023315; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:10:39 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3HM9ZlG012237; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:09:35 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3HM7lid020942 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:07:47 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3HM7l9J020938 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:07:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABziJEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,420,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53267614:sNHT17721567" In-Reply-To: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> CC: SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:06:06 +0200 To: Anders Torger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd3fc8e909678b38737fc606dec187f0 Hi Anders, I'm CCing Kacheong, since you most likely point out a bug in the Solaris implementation below. I'm sure Kacheong wants to know about it such that Sun can fix it. Comments in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 17, 2007, at 10:13 PM, Anders Torger wrote: > It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should > work. > > It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not > clear on > which one it should be: > > A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > interleaved. > > B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or > partial > deliveries with no restrictions. > > Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if > recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that > delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: > > 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. > 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many > sockets only). > 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from > another stream. > 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same > stream > but unordered. > > Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest > socket API > draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: > > "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially > deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more > calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the > message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially > delivered." > > The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction > that > an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same > stream > while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way > around. > But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long > as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if > partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). I think this is not intended. You should not deliver a complete ordered user message with sid = n and ssn = m while partially delivering a message with sid = n and ssn = m - 1. This violates the rule that all ordered messages within each stream is delivered in order. > > Actually, Solaris 10 seems to never deliver unordered messages > partially > (at least if the input buffer is large enough), if you feed it with > unordered messages a bit larger than SO_RCVBUF is, the association > will > indeed hang, and if tried a few times a crash can be provoked, so I > guess that the actual plan is to deliver unordered messages partially > and that it does not is a bug. (Test performed: send a 103001 byte > unordered message from a Linux 2.6.10 machine to a Solaris 10 machine > with default SO_RCVBUF size of 102400 bytes, association will hang. > Ok, > it does not make sense with that large unordered messages, but I'm > here > to stress the API... I would guess the test can be done between two > Solaris machines too, just increase SO_SNDBUF on the sending machine). I have not verified this, but this seems to be a bug in the SCTP implementation. > > However, the newer socket API drafts also add the > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE socket option: > > "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) > > This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is > doing > fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many > socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return > parts of messages from different associations. Some > implementations > may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned > off, > no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line > blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many > socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may > come from a different association (thus the user must receive data > with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which > association each receive belongs to." > > The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to > the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to > one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also > applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the > above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave > on a one-to-one socket. Yes, this text was written to overcome the problem, that one association should not be able to block others. This is not a problem for 1-to-1, but someone (an attacker) could start sending a long fragmented message such the the partial delivery kicks off. If the attacker never sends the last fragment and fragment interleave is not enabled the application would never receive messages from the other associations. This allows a DOS attack. To avoid this, this option was introduced. > > Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly contradicts > itself, and leaves me confused. > > As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With > model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer for > one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a > need to > hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for > unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an > advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking > when > dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could > also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would > employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages > simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it makes > the > life easier for the API user. I think it is important to do the interleave between the different associations of 1-to-many sockets to avoid the DOS attack described above. I do see that (B) is possible, it defers more tasks to the upper layer and minimizes the time parts of the messages a kept inside the SCTP layer. But how likely will this situation occur? I would assume that a message which is being partially delivered is also transmitted in multiple DATA chunks. On the wire these fragmented user messages can not be "interleaved". They must have consecutive TSNs. So I'm not sure that you gain much, by providing (B) instead of (A). So I think an implementation providing (A) is sufficient to write good applications. But I see your point: For an application write it is important to know what he has to expect. I think I would prefer (A) as an application writer. > > Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, and how > are other stack implementations working in this area? > > /Anders Torger > From security@ebay.com Tue Apr 17 18:50:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdwVH-0006a9-OR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:50:27 -0400 Received: from [68.254.53.158] (helo=192.168.1.100) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdwVG-0004D9-5A for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:50:27 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From bidulock@openss7.org Tue Apr 17 18:59:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdwdd-00033I-3Z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:59:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdwdb-0007JA-RQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:59:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Apr 2007 18:59:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3HMx3QK006590; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:59:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3HMwkGd004254; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:58:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3HMw10P021901 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:58:01 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3HMw1Sx021897 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:58:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CANTtJEaOs8fg/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,420,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80165075:sNHT2378536344" Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:54:39 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Michael Tuexen CC: Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Message-Id: <20070417165439.A17981@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de>; from Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de on Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 12:06:06AM +0200 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Michael, I think you are confusing the API with the protocol. Although the protocol (unnecessarily as it may be) requires that a ordered message be fully delivered, with sequential TSNs, before another message (ordered or not) in the same stream, that is not a required on the API. Consider that, regardless of the size or fragmentation on the wire, one, say 8192 byte ordered message arrives (completely). The user reads 4096 bytes of this message. Before the next read a 32 byte unordered message for the same stream arrives. A subsequent read could read the unordered message before reading the remainder of the ordered message. For SIGTRAN expediting unordered messages (which are more time sensitive) is desirable. --brian On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Anders, > > I'm CCing Kacheong, since you most likely point out a bug in the > Solaris implementation below. I'm sure Kacheong wants to know about > it such that Sun can fix it. > > Comments in-line. > -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Tue Apr 17 19:16:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdwux-0004ld-5V for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:16:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdwuv-00054s-RM for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:16:59 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Apr 2007 19:16:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3HNGvxl011978; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:16:57 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3HNGElG028294; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:16:14 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3HNExnY022232 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:15:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3HNExAF022228 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:14:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALLxJEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCQEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,420,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80173045:sNHT681421257" In-Reply-To: <20070417165439.A17981@openss7.org> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <20070417165439.A17981@openss7.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2517F2AF-809F-47C1-9765-270BA7E1225A@micmac.franken.de> CC: Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:13:05 +0200 To: bidulock@openss7.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3HNEvEt022222 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Brian, comments in-line. Best regards Michael On Apr 18, 2007, at 12:54 AM, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > Michael, > > I think you are confusing the API with the protocol. Although the > protocol (unnecessarily as it may be) requires that a ordered > message be > fully delivered, with sequential TSNs, before another message (ordered > or not) in the same stream, that is not a required on the API. No I'm not confusing it. My point is only: - Interleaving messages from different associations is necessary to protect against a DOS attack. - Due to the limitations of the TSN assignment, the benefit of partial deliver multiple fragmented users messages within one association seems to be limited. This is just my opinion. I do understand that one could do (B), the user then has to do more... > > Consider that, regardless of the size or fragmentation on the wire, > one, > say 8192 byte ordered message arrives (completely). The user reads > 4096 > bytes of this message. Before the next read a 32 byte unordered > message > for the same stream arrives. A subsequent read could read the > unordered > message before reading the remainder of the ordered message. Whether or not unordered messages (fragmented or not) are delivered "faster" than ordered ones is not specified. > > For SIGTRAN expediting unordered messages (which are more time > sensitive) is desirable. As far as I know, none of the SIGTRAN messages are required to be delivered unordered. And the delivery of the unordered user messages is not specified. So you can not assume, that they are delivered "faster". > > --brian > > On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Hi Anders, >> >> I'm CCing Kacheong, since you most likely point out a bug in the >> Solaris implementation below. I'm sure Kacheong wants to know about >> it such that Sun can fix it. >> >> Comments in-line. >> > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ > bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ > http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ > ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ > ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ > From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 18 01:59:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3CP-00029x-Au for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:59:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3CO-0005jb-R1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:59:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 01:59:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3I5xNfG021989; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:59:23 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3I5wTlG017273; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:58:31 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3I5vQKv028712 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:57:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3I5vPd7028708 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:57:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIBQJUbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQBwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,420,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80293785:sNHT51802254" From: Anders Torger To: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:44:12 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704180744.12377.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 76c7db407a166e4c39f35d8215d8dd32 Thank you for the reply. I just have access to the "Solaris 10 11/06 s10s_u3wos_10 SPARC" and I think there are patches since then, so perhaps the problem is already fixed in later patches. However, I can provide a test program and do some further tests if Kacheong is interested. The company I work for is in any case interested in stabilizing the SCTP stacks out there. If I understood things correctly, model A) exists solely to make it easier for the application programmer, not for the stack implementors. I would guess that model A) actually make implementing a stack harder. So, then there should be a real value with model A) for the programmer. However, I realized that the A) model probably does not really help the programmer that much. To do that, the programmer must assume that there is a 1-to-1 mapping between SCTP user messages and upper layer protocol messages. If there is no 1-to-1 mapping, the ULP message could be fragmented into multiple SCTP user messages and thus be delivered in parts anyway. A server must probably expect that a client could use "tcp compatibility mode" and is doing write()/send() instead of sendmsg(). Of course, the most natural way is to make a single write() per ULP message even in such application, and it is most likely that a single write() will lead to a single SCTP message, and thus a 1-to-1 mapping is quite likely. However, if the client has a separate buffered I/O layer the 1-to-1 mapping may not be there, or, the ULP may have large messages which will be split due to exceeding SO_SNDBUF. Take the Diameter protocol as an example. The largest message size there is 16 megabytes, messages never get that large in the normal case, but it is not too unlikely that they exceed SO_SNDBUF for some client. A client using non-blocking write() would thus sometimes split a Diameter message over several SCTP user messages. Say that we require clients being properly implemented using sendmsg(), then we have the problem that most(?) stacks do not support partial sending. I've been informed by Randall Stewart that BSD has some EEOR mode such that you can actually send messages of any size, but I don't think this is supported in for example Linux or Solaris. Thus, if an ULP message exceeds SO_SNDBUF, the sender is generally forced to split the message into several SCTP messages. When there is no widespread API to send messages exceeding SO_SNDBUF in size, then I don't see any strong value that a stack does model A), since an application programmer would need to manage buffers per stream anyway (which for Diameter is a bit cumbersome, since the max message size is a bit large), unless the ULP max message size is so small one can assume that no client has an SO_SNDBUF that is smaller. /Anders Torger On Wednesday 18 April 2007 00:06, Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Anders, > > I'm CCing Kacheong, since you most likely point out a bug in the > Solaris implementation below. I'm sure Kacheong wants to know about > it such that Sun can fix it. > > Comments in-line. > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 17, 2007, at 10:13 PM, Anders Torger wrote: > > It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() > > should work. > > > > It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not > > clear on > > which one it should be: > > > > A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > > interleaved. > > > > B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or > > partial > > deliveries with no restrictions. > > > > Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, > > if recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next > > call that delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one > > of: > > > > 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered > > message. 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation > > (one-to-many sockets only). > > 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from > > another stream. > > 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same > > stream > > but unordered. > > > > Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest > > socket API > > draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: > > > > "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially > > deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and > > more calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the > > message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially > > delivered." > > > > The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction > > that > > an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same > > stream > > while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way > > around. > > But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as > > long as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag > > if partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). > > I think this is not intended. You should not deliver a complete > ordered user message with sid = n and ssn = m while partially > delivering a message with sid = n and ssn = m - 1. This violates the > rule that all ordered messages within each stream is delivered in > order. > > > Actually, Solaris 10 seems to never deliver unordered messages > > partially > > (at least if the input buffer is large enough), if you feed it with > > unordered messages a bit larger than SO_RCVBUF is, the association > > will > > indeed hang, and if tried a few times a crash can be provoked, so I > > guess that the actual plan is to deliver unordered messages > > partially and that it does not is a bug. (Test performed: send a > > 103001 byte unordered message from a Linux 2.6.10 machine to a > > Solaris 10 machine with default SO_RCVBUF size of 102400 bytes, > > association will hang. Ok, > > it does not make sense with that large unordered messages, but I'm > > here > > to stress the API... I would guess the test can be done between two > > Solaris machines too, just increase SO_SNDBUF on the sending > > machine). > > I have not verified this, but this seems to be a bug in the SCTP > implementation. > > > However, the newer socket API drafts also add the > > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE socket option: > > > > "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave > > (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) > > > > This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is > > doing > > fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many > > socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return > > parts of messages from different associations. Some > > implementations > > may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned > > off, > > no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of > > line blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to > > many socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive > > call may come from a different association (thus the user must > > receive data with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep > > track of which association each receive belongs to." > > > > The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according > > to the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to > > one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also > > applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the > > above text is written with the assumption that there is no > > interleave on a one-to-one socket. > > Yes, this text was written to overcome the problem, that one > association should not be able to block others. This is not a problem > for 1-to-1, but someone (an attacker) could start sending a long > fragmented message such the the partial delivery kicks off. If the > attacker never sends the last fragment and fragment interleave is not > enabled the application would never receive messages from the other > associations. This allows a DOS attack. To avoid this, this option > was introduced. > > > Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly > > contradicts itself, and leaves me confused. > > > > As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With > > model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer > > for one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a > > need to > > hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for > > unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an > > advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking > > when > > dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one > > could also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol > > would employ very large user messages and streams or unordered > > messages simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since > > it makes the > > life easier for the API user. > > I think it is important to do the interleave between the different > associations > of 1-to-many sockets to avoid the DOS attack described above. > > I do see that (B) is possible, it defers more tasks to the upper > layer and > minimizes the time parts of the messages a kept inside the SCTP > layer. > > But how likely will this situation occur? I would assume that a > message which > is being partially delivered is also transmitted in multiple DATA > chunks. > On the wire these fragmented user messages can not be "interleaved". > They > must have consecutive TSNs. So I'm not sure that you gain much, by > providing > (B) instead of (A). So I think an implementation providing (A) is > sufficient > to write good applications. > > But I see your point: For an application write it is important to > know what he has to expect. I think I would prefer (A) as an > application writer. > > > Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, and > > how are other stack implementations working in this area? > > > > /Anders Torger From amvcompendia@enorth.com.cn Wed Apr 18 02:12:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3PV-0004ms-V0 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:12:57 -0400 Received: from [194.158.60.102] (helo=enorth.com.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He3PU-0000YQ-BR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:12:57 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c78191$75de4350$001a3aac@GWB> From: "Miranda Malone" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: it be matthews Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:13:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Take a look at this ONE Special Situation Alert TMXO Trimax. are providers of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) communication technologies. 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Is 500% profit potential short term? sctp-impl-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker now From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 18 03:18:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He4Qw-0007IU-1i for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:18:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He4Qv-0006jc-Ec for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:18:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 03:18:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3I7ISuj007806; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:18:28 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3I7HslG029913; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:17:54 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3I7GFkO029904 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:16:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3I7GFWC029900 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:16:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.76 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADJiJUbDNmtMk2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,421,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80317586:sNHT29393352" From: Anders Torger To: bidulock@openss7.org Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:04:01 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <20070417144327.A15684@openss7.org> In-Reply-To: <20070417144327.A15684@openss7.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704180904.01610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3I7GBNI029892 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 MSG_PEEK does not really help, since you cannot force the stack to deliver things in different order than it is planning. However, I am not that concerned, but I need to understand how things do work, and how things are supposed to work. I'm actually working on documentation, a guideline how to use the SCTP socket API when writing carrier grade soft-realtime telecom applications. In the process I'm trying to understand the ideas behind the API, and where it is heading. And specifically looking a bit closer at Solaris and Linux implementations which is the main interest of the company I work for. What I see concerning partial delivery is that it seems like the socket API designers have identified that it is easier to handle one message at a time, than having to deal with (=buffer) fragments of multiple messages. Therefore some parts of the API draft indicate that partial delivery should only happen on one message at at time, at least per association. However, this is not the way all implementations work, one clear example of this is the Solaris implementation, which probably is one of the most 'important' implementations out there, since Solaris is very popular in telecom. In addition to this, the API draft is not 100% clear in this area. The SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option do indicate that interleaved message delivery should be a special case that have to actively be enabled. But in another place in the document, it says that interleave happens between streams. My assumption here is that avoiding interleave makes it harder to implement the stack, thus the only reason for avoiding it must be to make it easier to use the socket API. Then the natural follow-on question is - does it really make things easier for the application programmer or not? To me it seems like it becomes simpler only when possible to enforce a 1-to-1 mapping between ULP messages and SCTP user messages. To support that case, I think it is important to provide means in the socket API to decide the size of the message sent. To do that, partial sending must be supported, and that seems to be rare. Another aspect is that doing partial delivery on only one message at a time within an association seems to introduce head-of-line blocking in the API between streams although that is not appearent in the protocol. From a low-delay telecom signaling perspective this seems like a bad idea. So if I had the power to say how the socket API should be made, I'd say: - interleave whenever possible to avoid head-of-line blocking, or at least make it possible to activate, that is SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE should also enable interleaving within an association between streams and unordered messages. - make it clear that it must be possible to do partial sending, such that the user gets full control over SCTP user message size. I know that I have kind of advocated the non-interleaved mode, but I think I'm changing my mind. After some consideration, I simply don't think that the non-interleave mode simplifies things significantly enough to be really valuable. It usually ends up with should we buffer per association (non-interleave) or per stream + unordered (interleaved). Per association buffering is indeed a bit simpler, it provides the following advantages: - One can always offer 65535 streams to the client, since buffer space is not dependent on the number of streams. - In many cases it becomes practical to pre-allocate a buffer of ULP max message size, which could become unpractical if we need one buffer per stream. But apart from that, stream buffering follows the same principles and does not necessarily result in more complex code, except from possibly that one cannot pre-allocate max size buffers for each stream, or that one have to limit the number of inbound streams. It would be interesting to know the opinions on this from the participants on this list. On Tuesday 17 April 2007 22:43, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > Anders, > > On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Anders Torger wrote: > > A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > > interleaved. > > > > B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or > > partial deliveries with no restrictions. > > > > Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, and > > how are other stack implementations working in this area? > > The OpenSS7 stacks both follow model B. > > However, if you are concerned with what is coming next, why not > use MSG_PEEK? > > --brian From paix@evertecinc.com Wed Apr 18 03:55:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He510-0006QG-0G for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:55:46 -0400 Received: from [213.192.13.242] (helo=ctjk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He50y-0003zo-1T for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:55:45 -0400 Received: from tplul ([197.150.81.87]) by ctjk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:55:49 +0200 Message-ID: <001e01c7818e$fab1bd80$575196c5@tplul> From: "Mays" To: Subject: typecast Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:55:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C7819F.BE333A80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4bb0e9e1ca9d18125bc841b2d8d77e24 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C7819F.BE333A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01C7819F.BE350F40" ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C7819F.BE350F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable com with your Website name, CJ username and ABW username (if you have = one) . 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for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:46:14 -0400 Received: from [190.65.145.176] (helo=font-world.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeAU9-0000dE-30 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:46:14 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c78196$1e2f43c0$00699a2c@pc2> From: "Cherie Hudson" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: At an saucepan Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:46:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 YOU'VE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU SAY? Special Situation Alert TMXO Trimax. are providers of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) communication technologies. OTC:TMXO - Last: 0.20 (up 8%, it is just beginning) Technologies that use the power grid to deliver 128-bit encrypted high-speed symmetrical broadband for data, voice and video transmission. This is a sector to be in! All material herein were prepared by us based upon information believed to be reliable but not guaranteed to be accurate and should not be considered to be all inclusive. This opinion contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.You could lose all your money. We are not a licensed broker, broker dealer, market maker, investment banker, investment advisor, analyst or underwriter. Please consult a broker before purchasing or selling any securities viewed or mentioned herein. We are negotiating a cash price for this advertisement in the near future,but at this time have received nothing. Third parties, affiliates, officers, directors and employees may also own or may buy the shares discussed in this opinion and intend to sell or profit in the event those shares rise or decrease in value . . . . All signs show that this one could Explode! TMXO has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your broker From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 18 10:51:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeBV7-0006JG-Gi for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:51:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeBV5-0003al-2c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:51:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 10:51:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IEpE1r028555; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:51:14 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IEnnlG001970; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:49:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IEkphK005355 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:46:51 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IEkpj8005351 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:46:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAH3MJUbAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53475308:sNHT21836115" Message-Id: <46262F29.60202@sun.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:46:01 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 [Comments in-line] Anders Torger wrote: > It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should > work. > > It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on > which one it should be: > > A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > interleaved. > > B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial > deliveries with no restrictions. > > Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if > recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that > delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: > > 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. > 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many > sockets only). > 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from > another stream. > 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream > but unordered. > > Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest socket API > draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: > > "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially > deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more > calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the > message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially > delivered." I do not remember if I wrote the above part, it may be... Sorry for the confusion. I think the intention is that message delivery should not be blocked unless it violates the in sequence delivery. This is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams in one association. So (B) is the intention. The only restriction the API should have is that an app doing a recvmsg() should always receive messages from the same stream in an association in sequence. So when partial delivery is on for message Y on stream X, the next message returned from recvmsg() can either be the next part of the message X, or a message from another stream, or an unordered message from stream X. In the case of 1-N style socket, the next message returned can also be from a different association. > The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that > an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream > while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. > But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long > as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if > partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). Yes, I think the above is the intention. > "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) > > This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is doing > fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many > socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return > parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations > may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off, > no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line > blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many > socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may > come from a different association (thus the user must receive data > with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which > association each receive belongs to." > > The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to > the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to > one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also > applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the > above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave > on a one-to-one socket. I think this is specific to 1-N style socket. Some implementations may not allow such interleaving. So here is an option to let an app know if the underlying stack supports it or not. But I think the intention is to have an API which does this interleaving by default. > Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly contradicts > itself, and leaves me confused. > > As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With > model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer for > one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a need to > hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for > unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an > advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking when > dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could > also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would > employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages > simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it makes the > life easier for the API user. I think it depends on the app. The receiver of the app probably knows if the sender will send unordered message or not. So if the sender will never do that, the receiver does not need to handle the complicated case. Given the fact that SCTP supports multiple streams, I think most apps do not need to use unordered message. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 18 11:17:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeBug-0000Wv-W4 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:17:42 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeBug-0002Qn-M9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:17:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 08:17:31 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IFHUSd002554; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:17:30 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IFH5Gd021615; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:17:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IFGbtP005883 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:16:37 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IFGbV3005879 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:16:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALPSJUbAEisZkmdsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHCAYOHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80494595:sNHT31112649" Message-Id: <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:15:57 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Michael Tuexen wrote: >> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that >> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream >> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. >> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long ^^ >> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). > I think this is not intended. You should not deliver a complete ordered > user message with sid = n and ssn = m while partially delivering > a message with sid = n and ssn = m - 1. This violates the rule that > all ordered messages within each stream is delivered in order. I think the "it" above refers to an unordered message, not ordered message. > But how likely will this situation occur? I would assume that a message > which > is being partially delivered is also transmitted in multiple DATA chunks. > On the wire these fragmented user messages can not be "interleaved". They > must have consecutive TSNs. So I'm not sure that you gain much, by > providing > (B) instead of (A). So I think an implementation providing (A) is > sufficient > to write good applications. I think the issue is whether a message from stream X of an association can be delivered while a partial delivery of a message from stream Y is going on. I think it is better to allow this as this is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams. For example, message A of stream X takes two and a half IP packets. The other half of the third packet belongs to message B of stream Y. Suppose the partial delivery point is set to one packet worths of data. After the stack gets the first and third packets, it can partially deliver message A and also completely deliver message B without waiting for the second packet. IMHO, there is no special need why the stack needs to defer delivering message B. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Wed Apr 18 11:45:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeCLw-0003Ne-Ol for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:45:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeCLv-0008Cd-HE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:45:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 11:45:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IFjohe026484; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:45:50 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IFjYGd000802; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:45:34 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IFjMfl006357 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:45:22 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IFjMoE006353 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:45:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.22 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALjZJUbAEisWkmdsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80507510:sNHT24468588" Message-Id: <46263CE8.9080006@sun.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:44:40 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <20070417144327.A15684@openss7.org> <200704180904.01610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704180904.01610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Anders Torger wrote: > So if I had the power to say how the socket API should be made, I'd say: > > - interleave whenever possible to avoid head-of-line blocking, or at > least make it possible to activate, that is SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE > should also enable interleaving within an association between streams > and unordered messages. I think this is the original intention. > - make it clear that it must be possible to do partial sending, such > that the user gets full control over SCTP user message size. In some sense, an app programmer has full control over SCTP message size as long as it is not too big :-) Partial sending is a "relatively" new addition to the draft. I think this was not in the draft because it was not expected that an app had a need to send a message larger than the socket buffer size. This followed the UDP socket model which was known to be sufficient. It seems that with SCTP, app programmers are now trying to go beyond what has been available. I expect that as time goes on, all stacks will fully support the API draft. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From tffemale@kuku.com Wed Apr 18 12:30:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeD3K-0003Ol-0w for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:30:42 -0400 Received: from [121.34.125.218] (helo=kuku.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeD3I-00054l-5w for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c7821a$6b6aa420$001a8b94@746eac105fa1486> From: "Sasha Pope" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Is between nook Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:33:58 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2969 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 This gem is really movable Special Situation Alert TMXO Trimax. are providers of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) communication technologies. 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Third parties, affiliates, officers, directors and employees may also own or may buy the shares discussed in this opinion and intend to sell or profit in the event those shares rise or decrease in value _ _ _ All signs show that this one could Explode! See the hottest news of the TMXO, sctp-impl-archive, call your broker From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 18 15:01:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFP7-0005ph-Tg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:01:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFP6-0008T9-II for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:01:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 15:01:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IJ1JmF006358; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:01:19 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IJ0NGd006166; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:00:23 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IIw3FA009770 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:58:03 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IIw3wJ009766 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:58:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.76 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANgGJkbDNmtMk2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80587581:sNHT475607079" From: Anders Torger To: Kacheong Poon Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:43:33 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 On Wednesday 18 April 2007 17:15, Kacheong Poon wrote: > I think the issue is whether a message from stream X of > an association can be delivered while a partial delivery of > a message from stream Y is going on. I think it is better > to allow this as this is in line with the reason why SCTP > supports multiple streams. For example, message A of stream > X takes two and a half IP packets. The other half of the third > packet belongs to message B of stream Y. Suppose the partial > delivery point is set to one packet worths of data. After the > stack gets the first and third packets, it can partially > deliver message A and also completely deliver message B without > waiting for the second packet. IMHO, there is no special need > why the stack needs to defer delivering message B. I can see one reason why one should not deliver it which I did not think about earlier. This has to do with receive buffer design in an application. Typically one would want to have a complete ULP message in contiguous memory before parsing it. More advanced parsers could of handle scatter arrays, but I guess that is not too common. Additionally, one would want to avoid/minimize copying or re-allocating memory to maximize efficiency. One simple example would be that one provides the start of an ULP max size buffer to recvmsg(), and when a complete message is in the buffer, it is passed along to the parser. Combining your and my example, that would mean that the ULP buffer would (in the 'worst' case) after the first recvmsg() contain partial message A, and then when providing the appropriate offset into the buffer for the next recvmsg() we get message B. Argh! We were expecting the continuation of message B! The problem here is that we cannot know on what stream (and association if one-to-many) the next recvmsg() will return. Interestingly enough a feature has been added in the later drafts containing an sctp_extrcvinfo which contains information about what the next recvmsg() will return, I wonder if this has been done to solve this problem. However, it only partly solves the problem, since the stack could partially deliver message A, have no more to deliver (next info is empty), and the B arrives from the network before the next fragment for A. The application programmer would never need to think about this problem if the stack employs a strict model to only partially deliver one message at a time. There is a relatively easy way to solve the problem with an interleaved stack though, when partially delivery arrives, make a best guess what the next recvmsg() will return - if you have sctp_extrcvinfo use that information, if that is empty (or sctp_extrcvinfo is not implemented) simply guess that the next fragment will be the continuation of the message (which will be the most common case), and if it isn't, re-allocate to a new buffer, there will never be a huge amount of memory to move anyway. So I still think that the "interleave without restrictions to avoid introducing any head-of-line blocking"-approach like the Solaris stack employs is the right one. But perhaps it needs to be made clearer in socket API draft, since there are obviously differences in how stacks are implemented, and as I said in an earlier mail, I don't think that the stricter one-message-at-a-time model has evolved naturally out of stack design, but is rather a feature added to make things easier for the application programmer. In any case, a socket API that behave differently on different platforms in this rather fundamental aspect does not make things easier for us programmers that want to write portable code... It would be interesting to hear the opinion from Randall Stewart, since I've sort of got the idea that he prefers the one-message-at-a-time model, but I could be wrong. /Anders Torger From asunc@buffalo.edu Wed Apr 18 15:17:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFfC-0001Sm-HL for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:17:58 -0400 Received: from [70.89.125.253] (helo=mail.legacyfinancial.us) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFf9-0002PZ-6z for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:17:58 -0400 Received: from acjzi ([125.233.72.115]) by mail.legacyfinancial.us with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:17:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c781ee$27e69190$7348e97d@acjzi> From: "Agatha Guzman" To: Subject: 5 or higher but no beta versions). Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:17:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C781B3.7B756A10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0489daa2bca46f53f2cc9214d1b54371 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C781B3.7B756A10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C781B3.7B79FDF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C781B3.7B79FDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To my engaging questions Teemu Arina replies with valuable insight and = by always expanding the boundaries within which we should look at = learning, communication and business life. While the features of these = applications are not often as numerous as those in the next section on = professional tools, they will certainly suit the needs of many users. = htm What kind of training do you find useful? Feel free to add your = comments below. Teemu Arina: Along with social software, wikis and blogs = are very often considered informal learning tools by educational = technology experts. Managers manage things; leaders lead people. You need to apply the context to the context itself. Now I'm interested on how to manage on-line classes. 95 as part of AVS 4 tools in 1 promotion Input file types: AVS has a = good range of video formats supported, including:AVI (DivX, XviD, etc. = This can be an invaluable experience. Which of the following questions = do you think would be more interesting for your students? Mobile = learning in the near future Robin Good: How do you picture mobile = learning taking place in the near future? Conversation Gambits, by Eric = Keller and Sylvia Townsend. Effective Negotiating, by Jeremy Comfort. Put the students in groups. 1) ESL teachers 2) Other school teachers 3) School administrators 4) The = students themselves 5) Peers 6) Parents Anything missing from the above = choices? Effective Presentations, by Jeremy Comfort. how to motivate students 4. For me informal learning is something that = is more social, more student-driven and not teacher-driven. Have you = ever tried to motivate students, but failed? If the students know the = word, they should discuss the definition with their teammates. You need to apply the context to the context itself. This is a wise move that could well pay off in terms of drawing = attention and traffic from these quintessential social media = destinations. Carol is also currently working on her MA in TESOL at the Oxford Brookes = University in England. Published in 1996 by Language Teaching Publications. setting up a role = play 6. The best needs analysis is one that is tailor-made so that it = answers the questions that you need answered. Have you successfully = figured out a way to motivate the unmotivated ones in your class? Ask = students to write 3 specific questions from the text. In-Company (series), by various authors. To my engaging questions Teemu = Arina replies with valuable insight and by always expanding the = boundaries within which we should look at learning, communication and = business life. Discuss in large group. The truth is, I've been teaching = on-line but those were just my personal accounts. can be useful for lower-level language students, they can be quite = boring, repetitive, and easy to answer without thinking much about it = for higher-level students. This can be an invaluable experience. What is = connectivism Robin Good: In one minute, give me a definition of what = connectivism is. Look for her posts on the ESL-Jobs-Forum discussion boards! ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C781B3.7B79FDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"bull"
To my engaging questions Teemu Arina = replies with=20 valuable insight and by always expanding the boundaries within which we = should look=20 at learning, communication and business life. While the features of = these=20 applications are not often as numerous as those in the next section on = professional=20 tools, they will certainly suit the needs of many users. htm What kind = of training=20 do you find useful? Feel free to add your comments below. Teemu Arina: = Along with=20 social software, wikis and blogs are very often considered informal = learning tools=20 by educational technology experts. Managers manage things; leaders = lead=20 people.
You need to apply the context to the = context=20 itself.
Now I'm interested on how to manage = on-line=20 classes.
95 as part of AVS 4 tools in 1 = promotion Input file=20 types: AVS has a good range of video formats supported, including:AVI = (DivX, XviD,=20 etc. This can be an invaluable experience. Which of the following = questions do you=20 think would be more interesting for your students? Mobile learning in = the near=20 future Robin Good: How do you picture mobile learning taking place in = the near=20 future? Conversation Gambits, by Eric Keller and Sylvia = Townsend.
Effective Negotiating, by Jeremy=20 Comfort.
Put the students in = groups.
1) ESL teachers 2) Other school = teachers 3) School=20 administrators 4) The students themselves 5) Peers 6) Parents Anything = missing from=20 the above choices?
Effective Presentations, by Jeremy=20 Comfort.
how to motivate students 4. For me = informal=20 learning is something that is more social, more student-driven and = not=20 teacher-driven. Have you ever tried to motivate students, but failed? If = the=20 students know the word, they should discuss the definition with their=20 teammates.
You need to apply the context to the = context=20 itself.
This is a wise move that could well pay = off in=20 terms of drawing attention and traffic from these quintessential social = media=20 destinations.
Carol is also currently working on her = MA in TESOL=20 at the Oxford Brookes University in England.
Published in 1996 by Language = Teaching=20 Publications. setting up a role play 6. The best needs analysis is one = that is=20 tailor-made so that it answers the questions that you need answered. = Have you=20 successfully figured out a way to motivate the unmotivated ones in your = class? Ask=20 students to write 3 specific questions from the text.
In-Company (series), by various = authors. To my=20 engaging questions Teemu Arina replies with valuable insight and by = always expanding=20 the boundaries within which we should look at learning, communication = and business=20 life. Discuss in large group. The truth is, I've been teaching on-line = but those=20 were just my personal accounts.
can be useful for lower-level language = students,=20 they can be quite boring, repetitive, and easy to answer without = thinking much about=20 it for higher-level students. This can be an invaluable experience. What = is=20 connectivism Robin Good: In one minute, give me a definition of what = connectivism=20 is.
Look for her posts on the = ESL-Jobs-Forum discussion=20 boards!
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Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:22:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFjN-0007yC-KN for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:22:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 15:22:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IJMG0o010975; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:22:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IJLsGd014412; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:21:54 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IJL9U5010244 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:21:09 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IJL9Xl010240 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:21:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.206 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABALJkacmf/Oomdsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80598632:sNHT24128208" Message-Id: <46266F5B.1020003@hp.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:19:55 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Kacheong Poon , Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 On additional potential issue that I just thought off is that with default stream interleaving (scenario B), upper layer protocols would need specify the stream information. In this case I am not talking about specific sigtran protocols, but more of ports of say SSH, or FTP, or even HTTP to run over SCTP with multi-streaming capabilities. My concert was that if a client was ported to use the multi-streaming feature, while the server may not have. In this case, it's possible for the server to run into major interoperability issues if the association just happens to enter partial delivery. I guess one could consider this a server _bug_, but without something that says that says multi-streaming should be used, it might be too common. So, this whole message interleaving during partial delivery may be something that needs to be explicitly enabled or disabled??? Just thinking outloud... Thanks -vlad From kokai@coreterra.com Wed Apr 18 16:29:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGmn-0001kC-F6; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:29:53 -0400 Received: from p5090d7a2.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.144.215.162] helo=rena) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGmk-0007Et-8S; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:29:53 -0400 Received: from 64.202.166.12 (HELO smtp.secureserver.net) by ietf.org with esmtp (H31B61+/, 3/+=) id OUIM)Q-))/A.4-70 for secretary@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:28:40 -0100 Message-ID: <01c781f8$26b42080$6c822ecf@kokai> From: "Flossie Bond" To: Subject: Office 2007 ready to download Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:28:40 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78208.EA3CF080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2741.2600 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bd8a74b81c71f965ca7918b90d1c49c0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78208.EA3CF080 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78208.EA3CF080" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78208.EA3CF080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As it sits there like an eventualFloating on the sky.Event, the end of=20= the painted road ends up(Our fortitude grows dim inXI. Franklin's Last=20= VoyageDreaming time has reversed=97and you,He terrifies the Vast, he=20= seems so wild;As it sits there like an eventualThat this mud draws on the=20= stone.Bronze the sky, with noWind, sleet. The branches sway,Pierced by=20= the mist that fades away,To mark that square, perhaps: were Mère and=20= PèreA rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.In stone waves and rock=20= waters, far from day,Like an old soldier, wakeful, in his tent!XVI.=20= Laying a Ghost: The Jeannette and the FramFor any part of them we can=20= make outWhen I am heard, and what I say is solely ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78208.EA3CF080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
As it sits there like an eventual
Floating on the=20= sky.
Event, the end of the painted road ends up
(Our fortitude=20= grows dim in
XI. Franklin's Last Voyage
Dreaming time has=20= reversed=97and you,
He terrifies the Vast, he seems so wild;
As it=20= sits there like an eventual
That this mud draws on the=20= stone.
Bronze the sky, with no
Wind, sleet. The branches=20= sway,
Pierced by the mist that fades away,
To mark that square,=20= perhaps: were Mère and Père
A rabbit carcass in its=20= stiffened fur.
In stone waves and rock waters, far from day,
Like=20= an old soldier, wakeful, in his tent!
XVI. Laying a Ghost: The=20= Jeannette and the Fram
For any part of them we can make out
When I=20= am heard, and what I say is solely
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sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:25:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGiI-0004MU-Dw for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:25:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 16:25:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IKPDOm025134; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:25:13 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IKOklG026371; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:24:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IKNQAa011248 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:23:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IKNQkQ011244 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:23:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADwbJkbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53573290:sNHT19184040" In-Reply-To: <200704180744.12377.torger@ludd.ltu.se> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <200704180744.12377.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6B40F4BD-C185-42C4-A1D6-67AB9497CAFD@micmac.franken.de> CC: SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:21:29 +0200 To: Anders Torger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e178fd6cb61ffb6940cd878e7fea8606 Hi Anders, the protocols I know of, which use SCTP as their transport layer require that an upper layer message is one SCTP user message and is fragmented by SCTP if it is too large. And I think this is the way SCTP is designed to transport messages. There is no protocol limit which limits the size of user messages. I do see the problem you are pointing out, that if an implementation (not the protocol) limits the size of messages, this limits the size of the upper layer messages. But this is something the implementation has to overcome. So an SCTP implementation should be able to handle messages of the size of its upper layer correctly. This especially applies to the send() calls, in particular to the handling of signals during the send() call. So I think the stacks should handle sending messages larger than the send buffer, if they want to support applications which are sending large messages. Best regards Michael On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:44 AM, Anders Torger wrote: > Thank you for the reply. > > I just have access to the "Solaris 10 11/06 s10s_u3wos_10 SPARC" and I > think there are patches since then, so perhaps the problem is already > fixed in later patches. However, I can provide a test program and do > some further tests if Kacheong is interested. The company I work > for is > in any case interested in stabilizing the SCTP stacks out there. > > If I understood things correctly, model A) exists solely to make it > easier for the application programmer, not for the stack implementors. > I would guess that model A) actually make implementing a stack harder. > So, then there should be a real value with model A) for the > programmer. > > However, I realized that the A) model probably does not really help > the > programmer that much. To do that, the programmer must assume that > there > is a 1-to-1 mapping between SCTP user messages and upper layer > protocol > messages. If there is no 1-to-1 mapping, the ULP message could be > fragmented into multiple SCTP user messages and thus be delivered in > parts anyway. > > A server must probably expect that a client could use "tcp > compatibility > mode" and is doing write()/send() instead of sendmsg(). Of course, the > most natural way is to make a single write() per ULP message even in > such application, and it is most likely that a single write() will > lead > to a single SCTP message, and thus a 1-to-1 mapping is quite likely. > However, if the client has a separate buffered I/O layer the 1-to-1 > mapping may not be there, or, the ULP may have large messages which > will be split due to exceeding SO_SNDBUF. > > Take the Diameter protocol as an example. The largest message size > there > is 16 megabytes, messages never get that large in the normal case, but > it is not too unlikely that they exceed SO_SNDBUF for some client. A > client using non-blocking write() would thus sometimes split a > Diameter > message over several SCTP user messages. > > Say that we require clients being properly implemented using sendmsg > (), > then we have the problem that most(?) stacks do not support partial > sending. I've been informed by Randall Stewart that BSD has some EEOR > mode such that you can actually send messages of any size, but I don't > think this is supported in for example Linux or Solaris. > > Thus, if an ULP message exceeds SO_SNDBUF, the sender is generally > forced to split the message into several SCTP messages. > > When there is no widespread API to send messages exceeding > SO_SNDBUF in > size, then I don't see any strong value that a stack does model A), > since an application programmer would need to manage buffers per > stream > anyway (which for Diameter is a bit cumbersome, since the max message > size is a bit large), unless the ULP max message size is so small one > can assume that no client has an SO_SNDBUF that is smaller. > > /Anders Torger > > On Wednesday 18 April 2007 00:06, Michael Tuexen wrote: >> Hi Anders, >> >> I'm CCing Kacheong, since you most likely point out a bug in the >> Solaris implementation below. I'm sure Kacheong wants to know about >> it such that Sun can fix it. >> >> Comments in-line. >> >> Best regards >> Michael >> >> On Apr 17, 2007, at 10:13 PM, Anders Torger wrote: >>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>> should work. >>> >>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not >>> clear on >>> which one it should be: >>> >>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>> interleaved. >>> >>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>> partial >>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>> >>> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, >>> if recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next >>> call that delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one >>> of: >>> >>> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered >>> message. 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation >>> (one-to-many sockets only). >>> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >>> another stream. >>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same >>> stream >>> but unordered. >>> >>> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest >>> socket API >>> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: >>> >>> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially >>> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and >>> more calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the >>> message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially >>> delivered." >>> >>> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction >>> that >>> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same >>> stream >>> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way >>> around. >>> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as >>> long as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag >>> if partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). >> >> I think this is not intended. You should not deliver a complete >> ordered user message with sid = n and ssn = m while partially >> delivering a message with sid = n and ssn = m - 1. This violates the >> rule that all ordered messages within each stream is delivered in >> order. >> >>> Actually, Solaris 10 seems to never deliver unordered messages >>> partially >>> (at least if the input buffer is large enough), if you feed it with >>> unordered messages a bit larger than SO_RCVBUF is, the association >>> will >>> indeed hang, and if tried a few times a crash can be provoked, so I >>> guess that the actual plan is to deliver unordered messages >>> partially and that it does not is a bug. (Test performed: send a >>> 103001 byte unordered message from a Linux 2.6.10 machine to a >>> Solaris 10 machine with default SO_RCVBUF size of 102400 bytes, >>> association will hang. Ok, >>> it does not make sense with that large unordered messages, but I'm >>> here >>> to stress the API... I would guess the test can be done between two >>> Solaris machines too, just increase SO_SNDBUF on the sending >>> machine). >> >> I have not verified this, but this seems to be a bug in the SCTP >> implementation. >> >>> However, the newer socket API drafts also add the >>> SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE socket option: >>> >>> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave >>> (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) >>> >>> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is >>> doing >>> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many >>> socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return >>> parts of messages from different associations. Some >>> implementations >>> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned >>> off, >>> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of >>> line blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to >>> many socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive >>> call may come from a different association (thus the user must >>> receive data with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep >>> track of which association each receive belongs to." >>> >>> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according >>> to the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to >>> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also >>> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the >>> above text is written with the assumption that there is no >>> interleave on a one-to-one socket. >> >> Yes, this text was written to overcome the problem, that one >> association should not be able to block others. This is not a problem >> for 1-to-1, but someone (an attacker) could start sending a long >> fragmented message such the the partial delivery kicks off. If the >> attacker never sends the last fragment and fragment interleave is not >> enabled the application would never receive messages from the other >> associations. This allows a DOS attack. To avoid this, this option >> was introduced. >> >>> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly >>> contradicts itself, and leaves me confused. >>> >>> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With >>> model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer >>> for one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a >>> need to >>> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for >>> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an >>> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking >>> when >>> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one >>> could also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol >>> would employ very large user messages and streams or unordered >>> messages simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since >>> it makes the >>> life easier for the API user. >> >> I think it is important to do the interleave between the different >> associations >> of 1-to-many sockets to avoid the DOS attack described above. >> >> I do see that (B) is possible, it defers more tasks to the upper >> layer and >> minimizes the time parts of the messages a kept inside the SCTP >> layer. >> >> But how likely will this situation occur? I would assume that a >> message which >> is being partially delivered is also transmitted in multiple DATA >> chunks. >> On the wire these fragmented user messages can not be "interleaved". >> They >> must have consecutive TSNs. So I'm not sure that you gain much, by >> providing >> (B) instead of (A). So I think an implementation providing (A) is >> sufficient >> to write good applications. >> >> But I see your point: For an application write it is important to >> know what he has to expect. I think I would prefer (A) as an >> application writer. >> >>> Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, and >>> how are other stack implementations working in this area? >>> >>> /Anders Torger > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 18 16:35:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGrl-0002lt-Vq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:35:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGrk-0000Zg-HL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:35:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 16:35:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IKYxSW023441; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:34:59 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IKYJlG000160; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:34:19 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IKX5PL011451 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:33:05 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IKX5qH011447 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:33:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJ4dJkbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53576593:sNHT19148220" In-Reply-To: <46262F29.60202@sun.com> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:31:15 +0200 To: Kacheong Poon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 03169bfe4792634a390035a01a6c6d2f Hi Kacheong, I think the intention of the text in the socketAPI id is more like (A). The interleave is there to avoid a DOS. This requires only interleaving between different associations. Please have also a look at the example code at the end of the socket API ID. I think it only works correctly, if the stack does (A), not (B). Or am I wrong? Best regards Michael On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > [Comments in-line] > > Anders Torger wrote: >> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >> should >> work. >> >> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not >> clear on >> which one it should be: >> >> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >> interleaved. >> >> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >> partial >> deliveries with no restrictions. >> >> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if >> recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call >> that >> delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: >> >> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered >> message. >> 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many >> sockets only). >> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >> another stream. >> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same >> stream >> but unordered. >> >> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest >> socket API >> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: >> >> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially >> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more >> calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the >> message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially >> delivered." > > > I do not remember if I wrote the above part, it may be... Sorry > for the confusion. I think the intention is that message delivery > should not be blocked unless it violates the in sequence delivery. > This is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams > in one association. So (B) is the intention. The only restriction > the API should have is that an app doing a recvmsg() should always > receive messages from the same stream in an association in sequence. > So when partial delivery is on for message Y on stream X, the next > message returned from recvmsg() can either be the next part of > the message X, or a message from another stream, or an unordered > message from stream X. In the case of 1-N style socket, the next > message returned can also be from a different association. > > >> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction >> that >> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same >> stream >> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way >> around. >> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long >> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). > > > Yes, I think the above is the intention. > > >> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) >> >> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is >> doing >> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many >> socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return >> parts of messages from different associations. Some >> implementations >> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned >> off, >> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line >> blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to >> many >> socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call >> may >> come from a different association (thus the user must receive data >> with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which >> association each receive belongs to." >> >> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to >> the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to >> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also >> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the >> above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave >> on a one-to-one socket. > > > I think this is specific to 1-N style socket. Some > implementations may not allow such interleaving. So here > is an option to let an app know if the underlying stack > supports it or not. But I think the intention is to have > an API which does this interleaving by default. > > >> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly >> contradicts >> itself, and leaves me confused. >> >> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With >> model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer >> for >> one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a >> need to >> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for >> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an >> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line >> blocking when >> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could >> also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would >> employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages >> simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it >> makes the >> life easier for the API user. > > > I think it depends on the app. The receiver of the app > probably knows if the sender will send unordered message > or not. So if the sender will never do that, the receiver > does not need to handle the complicated case. Given the > fact that SCTP supports multiple streams, I think most apps > do not need to use unordered message. > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 18 16:43:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGzz-0002dw-WC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:43:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGzz-0002qR-IU for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:43:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 16:43:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IKhUQA028174; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:43:30 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IKhJGd002303; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:43:19 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IKguNv011648 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:42:56 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IKguFN011644 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:42:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOwfJkbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53578959:sNHT25862373" In-Reply-To: <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:41:09 +0200 To: SCTP Implementors X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 .. more thinking... The code in the example breaks as soon as you do any interleave. But I think it is important to interleave between different associations, so the code needs an update for the 1-to-many model. It needs to do a partial write when getting a partial message. Best regards Michael On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:31 PM, Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Kacheong, > > I think the intention of the text in the socketAPI id is more > like (A). The interleave is there to avoid a DOS. This requires > only interleaving between different associations. > > Please have also a look at the example code at the end of > the socket API ID. I think it only works correctly, if the > stack does (A), not (B). Or am I wrong? > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > >> [Comments in-line] >> >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>> should >>> work. >>> >>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not >>> clear on >>> which one it should be: >>> >>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>> interleaved. >>> >>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>> partial >>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>> >>> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for >>> example, if >>> recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call >>> that >>> delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: >>> >>> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered >>> message. >>> 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many >>> sockets only). >>> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >>> another stream. >>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same >>> stream >>> but unordered. >>> >>> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest >>> socket API >>> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: >>> >>> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially >>> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and >>> more >>> calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the >>> message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially >>> delivered." >> >> >> I do not remember if I wrote the above part, it may be... Sorry >> for the confusion. I think the intention is that message delivery >> should not be blocked unless it violates the in sequence delivery. >> This is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams >> in one association. So (B) is the intention. The only restriction >> the API should have is that an app doing a recvmsg() should always >> receive messages from the same stream in an association in sequence. >> So when partial delivery is on for message Y on stream X, the next >> message returned from recvmsg() can either be the next part of >> the message X, or a message from another stream, or an unordered >> message from stream X. In the case of 1-N style socket, the next >> message returned can also be from a different association. >> >> >>> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the >>> restriction that >>> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same >>> stream >>> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way >>> around. >>> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as >>> long >>> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >>> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). >> >> >> Yes, I think the above is the intention. >> >> >>> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave >>> (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) >>> >>> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation >>> is doing >>> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many >>> socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return >>> parts of messages from different associations. Some >>> implementations >>> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when >>> turned off, >>> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of >>> line >>> blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to >>> many >>> socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive >>> call may >>> come from a different association (thus the user must receive >>> data >>> with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of >>> which >>> association each receive belongs to." >>> >>> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to >>> the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to >>> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also >>> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the >>> above text is written with the assumption that there is no >>> interleave >>> on a one-to-one socket. >> >> >> I think this is specific to 1-N style socket. Some >> implementations may not allow such interleaving. So here >> is an option to let an app know if the underlying stack >> supports it or not. But I think the intention is to have >> an API which does this interleaving by default. >> >> >>> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly >>> contradicts >>> itself, and leaves me confused. >>> >>> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With >>> model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a >>> buffer for >>> one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a >>> need to >>> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for >>> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an >>> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line >>> blocking when >>> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could >>> also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would >>> employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages >>> simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it >>> makes the >>> life easier for the API user. >> >> >> I think it depends on the app. The receiver of the app >> probably knows if the sender will send unordered message >> or not. So if the sender will never do that, the receiver >> does not need to handle the complicated case. Given the >> fact that SCTP supports multiple streams, I think most apps >> do not need to use unordered message. >> >> >> -- >> >> K. Poon. >> kacheong.poon@sun.com >> > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Wed Apr 18 16:50:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeH6e-0000ji-0x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:50:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeH6d-0005Df-M3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:50:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 16:50:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IKoNUa032386; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:50:23 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IKo2lG005783; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:50:02 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IKnUpm011780 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:49:30 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IKnUBi011776 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:49:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABghJkbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,423,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80633489:sNHT26498214" In-Reply-To: <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:47:37 +0200 To: Anders Torger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be On Apr 18, 2007, at 8:43 PM, Anders Torger wrote: > On Wednesday 18 April 2007 17:15, Kacheong Poon wrote: >> I think the issue is whether a message from stream X of >> an association can be delivered while a partial delivery of >> a message from stream Y is going on. I think it is better >> to allow this as this is in line with the reason why SCTP >> supports multiple streams. For example, message A of stream >> X takes two and a half IP packets. The other half of the third >> packet belongs to message B of stream Y. Suppose the partial >> delivery point is set to one packet worths of data. After the >> stack gets the first and third packets, it can partially >> deliver message A and also completely deliver message B without >> waiting for the second packet. IMHO, there is no special need >> why the stack needs to defer delivering message B. > > I can see one reason why one should not deliver it which I did not > think > about earlier. This has to do with receive buffer design in an > application. > > Typically one would want to have a complete ULP message in contiguous > memory before parsing it. More advanced parsers could of handle > scatter > arrays, but I guess that is not too common. > > Additionally, one would want to avoid/minimize copying or re- > allocating > memory to maximize efficiency. One simple example would be that one > provides the start of an ULP max size buffer to recvmsg(), and when a > complete message is in the buffer, it is passed along to the parser. > > Combining your and my example, that would mean that the ULP buffer > would > (in the 'worst' case) after the first recvmsg() contain partial > message > A, and then when providing the appropriate offset into the buffer for > the next recvmsg() we get message B. Argh! We were expecting the > continuation of message B! The problem here is that we cannot know on > what stream (and association if one-to-many) the next recvmsg() will > return. Interestingly enough a feature has been added in the later > drafts containing an sctp_extrcvinfo which contains information about > what the next recvmsg() will return, I wonder if this has been done to > solve this problem. However, it only partly solves the problem, since > the stack could partially deliver message A, have no more to deliver > (next info is empty), and the B arrives from the network before the > next fragment for A. > > The application programmer would never need to think about this > problem > if the stack employs a strict model to only partially deliver one > message at a time. But this allows a DOS attack. A stack must be able to interleave messages from different associations. Therefore the program must be prepared to handle this. > > There is a relatively easy way to solve the problem with an > interleaved > stack though, when partially delivery arrives, make a best guess what > the next recvmsg() will return - if you have sctp_extrcvinfo use that > information, if that is empty (or sctp_extrcvinfo is not implemented) > simply guess that the next fragment will be the continuation of the > message (which will be the most common case), and if it isn't, > re-allocate to a new buffer, there will never be a huge amount of > memory to move anyway. > > So I still think that the "interleave without restrictions to avoid > introducing any head-of-line blocking"-approach like the Solaris stack > employs is the right one. But perhaps it needs to be made clearer in > socket API draft, since there are obviously differences in how stacks > are implemented, and as I said in an earlier mail, I don't think that > the stricter one-message-at-a-time model has evolved naturally out of > stack design, but is rather a feature added to make things easier for > the application programmer. > > In any case, a socket API that behave differently on different > platforms > in this rather fundamental aspect does not make things easier for us > programmers that want to write portable code... > > It would be interesting to hear the opinion from Randall Stewart, > since > I've sort of got the idea that he prefers the one-message-at-a-time > model, but I could be wrong. > > /Anders Torger > From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 18:43:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIs1-0003HK-Ho for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIs1-00032I-6E for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 18:43:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IMhOiH022174; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IMgCGd009481; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:42:12 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IMdFsc013919 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:39:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IMdF79013915 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:39:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="769554242:sNHT52274332" Message-Id: <46269EAD.5010800@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:41:49 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46253826.2050805@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46253826.2050805@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 18 Apr 2007 22:39:10.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[61DE9750:01C7820A] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3897; t=1176936204; x=1177800204; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=33DxzTMojEoBfEB1kTMEk+z1pyJBQvP0+BcKVoXHnKA=; b=UXXp3Wm3klLZaA2+f9hOohKXcT6gPU7/rssuezOmwM1Kd+udrcirxIuamzYRM/gJ9pdzQ+AE /iRPVrTyofkC3CmOL0OgW0ELoQN9YBBmpD0brq8WYYToIVqSD0y3PBG2; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3897; t=1176935953; x=1177799953; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=33DxzTMojEoBfEB1kTMEk+z1pyJBQvP0+BcKVoXHnKA=; b=EM7hy/Kb9E9ODeYbfpnAElNW9tn7rhvrQj7exczJ60Ej1xA4Tgawsk5xzLKk82cwOwUKVnl4 H+RXYnjtVqq9VfR2/A4O1/7HiyPf4KiiEe+2LZoy9OP/x2zQh4BE3RPq; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7fa173a723009a6ca8ce575a65a5d813 Vlad: I have not yet finished reading this thread.. but I wanted to comment on yours.. below.. Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: >> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should >> work. >> >> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on >> which one it should be: >> >> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >> interleaved. >> >> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial >> deliveries with no restrictions. > > Hi Anders > > Hm... looking at LKSCTP, I am really not sure what the default mode > of operation is. It's leaning towards A, but not strictly. > > Here is what LKSCTP does in the scenario you listed below: >> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if >> recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that >> delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: >> >> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. > > same in LKSCTP same for BSD. > >> 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many >> sockets only). > > Only if SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is enabled. The option is disabled > by default. Same for BSD > >> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >> another stream. > > Nope, not in lksctp. Nope NOT in BSD. > >> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream >> but unordered. > > Actually, only a full message (ie. it was never fragmented) that was > unordered has a chance to interleave with PD in lksctp > implementation. Looking at this one further, this might actually be > a bug in the implementation. Nope.. Basically BSD takes approach . With the exception that fragment interleave, if turned on , allows you to interleave other association messages with ones doing a PD-API. Now, as to this whole discussion... it was discussed in detail on either this list or the tsvwg one (can't remember which one) when fragment interleave was added. At that time the conclusion was that. A) fragment interleave was off by default. B) Turning it on got you msg's from other associations NOT this one. C) We did discuss if interleaving other msg's from other streams was worth doing. And the basic thread, as I remember it, was that no, once you start a PD-API you get just that streams msg until its all read... If I remember right I did suggest that one could deliver another streams msg in the same asoc (even talked about having an option to enable/disable this). But folks argued that it was not needed and it just added more complication to the app. Consider where PD-API is used. Its used when the peer sends a message larger than the socket send buffer (I will discount the local ability to set the partial delivery point). Now if the peer sends a 1 meg message.. PD-API begins. We send up 1/2 Meg for the app to read .. it reads it.. When finally we get the rest we send it up.. Eventually we will get the next TSN after the fragmented big message. Here you could have some other message from another stream. By that time you either have put all the msg up.. OR you have a loss preventing you from sending up the last of the PD-API. If you have it all. Then its no big deal.. its up and the user should read it. Loss is going to be a rare case.. if it happens you do want the loss recovered anyway.. Anyway.. I will go read the rest of the thread now ;-) R > > You are right. There are definitely some wiggle room in the > interpretation; however, I don't think that following model A is > wrong. > > -vlad > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 18:43:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIsW-00047u-70 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIsV-0003KS-Ub for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 18:43:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IMhtUY022362; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IMhilG011338; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:43:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IMh93k014001 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:09 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IMh9tS013997 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:43:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="769554556:sNHT57052188" Message-Id: <46269F94.1040902@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:45:40 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: Michael Tuexen , Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 18 Apr 2007 22:43:00.0522 (UTC) FILETIME=[EAE098A0:01C7820A] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2696; t=1176936235; x=1177800235; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=P4GG5Xheb3593kHlkwyzphtjTgM/Em43SJcXcAu1b/I=; b=wsLBFkOaGBZfeI+44FNob5lvd+ihK7CogB0QewWjQozGZE8COMuI9lW+GetKBfieF+gF28AZ 9BMPywdxpNANpKrqbEg+isKr3s49QEpd8kfQj+tPfeJMO4wbEpBbv2be; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2696; t=1176936187; x=1177800187; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=P4GG5Xheb3593kHlkwyzphtjTgM/Em43SJcXcAu1b/I=; b=T4ncoW2meZ9mVuLsQ9jbYc+TDmXGzKP/g/dPt25XYaW0Y04d2H9Sl0Ch4eEOlqNQi2XrWzGn WRvfDywsL8kV6xELOms8uscPXHa4MHhU8Gmv5aGLSdT7vhsIk3D+Cvzj; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >>> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that >>> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream >>> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. >>> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long > ^^ >>> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >>> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). > >> I think this is not intended. You should not deliver a complete ordered >> user message with sid = n and ssn = m while partially delivering >> a message with sid = n and ssn = m - 1. This violates the rule that >> all ordered messages within each stream is delivered in order. > > > I think the "it" above refers to an unordered message, not > ordered message. > > >> But how likely will this situation occur? I would assume that a message >> which >> is being partially delivered is also transmitted in multiple DATA chunks. >> On the wire these fragmented user messages can not be "interleaved". They >> must have consecutive TSNs. So I'm not sure that you gain much, by >> providing >> (B) instead of (A). So I think an implementation providing (A) is >> sufficient >> to write good applications. > > > I think the issue is whether a message from stream X of > an association can be delivered while a partial delivery of > a message from stream Y is going on. I think it is better > to allow this as this is in line with the reason why SCTP > supports multiple streams. For example, message A of stream > X takes two and a half IP packets. The other half of the third > packet belongs to message B of stream Y. Suppose the partial > delivery point is set to one packet worths of data. After the > stack gets the first and third packets, it can partially > deliver message A and also completely deliver message B without > waiting for the second packet. IMHO, there is no special need > why the stack needs to defer delivering message B. > > So in your example.. if stream X's message is also partially deliverable only.. i.e. there is a missing piece too. Do you start that partial delivery as well? How many partial deliveries does one allow to start all at once (not that this should happen.. but once you allow a subsequent partial delivery.. I think you must allow all streams to go in to a partial delivery state)... This may have been the reason we did not add this.. I need to go back and find that old thread :-D R > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 18:52:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeJ0f-0005HN-2q for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeJ0U-0007nW-84 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 18:52:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IMq9go025794; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:52:09 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3IMpilG013432; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:51:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3IMp7hW014160 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:51:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3IMp7aC014156 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:51:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="370578204:sNHT57951936" Message-Id: <4626A16F.2080209@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:53:35 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Kacheong Poon , Michael Tuexen , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 18 Apr 2007 22:50:55.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[06428670:01C7820C] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5757; t=1176936729; x=1177800729; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=A9pZ011ASnYv8IzXVRKciCxmLns5YL6wzWpD6QksvzM=; b=Vvf7ynduuMm73MAaufheeqiYz5jAFyalGY+ccMKwVs/J3/FvQZaDmpl/YfY2CzcbS23vi1nK m+sXWqYMwar9Xfr8GBDAdbp8jHHyIAXZnPQaS8kmPb6HxYWe5QawsG9f; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5757; t=1176936664; x=1177800664; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=A9pZ011ASnYv8IzXVRKciCxmLns5YL6wzWpD6QksvzM=; b=J1SaDuf+Nd8pCPuEnLCgDdkc3U9v2GugvcTUCQzHudqylkbwdOqwVSoBs4c+TdXh8GSJsk2z QzsqxwX1mZT0efmqsPMxdqEhG8LUucWk5Jn+11rh39VnkSU30rWPMcvZ; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93e7fb8fef2e780414389440f367c879 Anders Torger wrote: > On Wednesday 18 April 2007 17:15, Kacheong Poon wrote: >> I think the issue is whether a message from stream X of >> an association can be delivered while a partial delivery of >> a message from stream Y is going on. I think it is better >> to allow this as this is in line with the reason why SCTP >> supports multiple streams. For example, message A of stream >> X takes two and a half IP packets. The other half of the third >> packet belongs to message B of stream Y. Suppose the partial >> delivery point is set to one packet worths of data. After the >> stack gets the first and third packets, it can partially >> deliver message A and also completely deliver message B without >> waiting for the second packet. IMHO, there is no special need >> why the stack needs to defer delivering message B. > > I can see one reason why one should not deliver it which I did not think > about earlier. This has to do with receive buffer design in an > application. > > Typically one would want to have a complete ULP message in contiguous > memory before parsing it. More advanced parsers could of handle scatter > arrays, but I guess that is not too common. > > Additionally, one would want to avoid/minimize copying or re-allocating > memory to maximize efficiency. One simple example would be that one > provides the start of an ULP max size buffer to recvmsg(), and when a > complete message is in the buffer, it is passed along to the parser. > > Combining your and my example, that would mean that the ULP buffer would > (in the 'worst' case) after the first recvmsg() contain partial message > A, and then when providing the appropriate offset into the buffer for > the next recvmsg() we get message B. Argh! We were expecting the > continuation of message B! The problem here is that we cannot know on > what stream (and association if one-to-many) the next recvmsg() will > return. Interestingly enough a feature has been added in the later > drafts containing an sctp_extrcvinfo which contains information about > what the next recvmsg() will return, I wonder if this has been done to > solve this problem. Yes :-D However, it only partly solves the problem, since > the stack could partially deliver message A, have no more to deliver > (next info is empty), and the B arrives from the network before the > next fragment for A. Or if you allow multiple partial deliveries (which you probabaly should if you do one). Then you could have in queue msgs for: --Str1-> Str2 -> Str3 (p) (p) (c) (p) = partial msg (c) = complete msg Now I read all in str1 ext-info tells me str 2 is next I read all in strm2 ext info tells me str 3 is next.. and at the time of the read of str2, str1 has nothing. By the next user-to-kernel transition more as arrived on str1.. so the kernel will send back strm1 data .. since it needs to clear that out first and can't know what the previous return was... Very ugly.. I don't think mixing this stuff is a good idea.. once you start paritial delivery you should keep with that stream. Otherwise the app becomes very very complicated to try to write. I might be able to see why an unordered complete msg could be delivered (kind of a priority thing).. but even that will mess up your buffering.. > > The application programmer would never need to think about this problem > if the stack employs a strict model to only partially deliver one > message at a time. And this is what BSD does (unless you turn on fragment interleave which could get you a msg from a different assoc). > > There is a relatively easy way to solve the problem with an interleaved > stack though, when partially delivery arrives, make a best guess what > the next recvmsg() will return - if you have sctp_extrcvinfo use that > information, if that is empty (or sctp_extrcvinfo is not implemented) > simply guess that the next fragment will be the continuation of the > message (which will be the most common case), and if it isn't, > re-allocate to a new buffer, there will never be a huge amount of > memory to move anyway. And as I said.. you may NOT get what was foretold in the the extrcvinfo structure since the circumstances may have changed by the time you read... the next to deliver may be back to str 1.. > > So I still think that the "interleave without restrictions to avoid > introducing any head-of-line blocking"-approach like the Solaris stack > employs is the right one. But perhaps it needs to be made clearer in > socket API draft, since there are obviously differences in how stacks > are implemented, and as I said in an earlier mail, I don't think that > the stricter one-message-at-a-time model has evolved naturally out of > stack design, but is rather a feature added to make things easier for > the application programmer. I don't know if thats a good idea... Where this interleave things is really going to come in is only when huge messages are being sent. and no matter what when you send a huge message you ARE going to block other stream messages until all those TSN's can get across... R > > In any case, a socket API that behave differently on different platforms > in this rather fundamental aspect does not make things easier for us > programmers that want to write portable code... > > It would be interesting to hear the opinion from Randall Stewart, since > I've sort of got the idea that he prefers the one-message-at-a-time > model, but I could be wrong. > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From Rhondaf@tumwater.net Wed Apr 18 19:19:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeJQi-0008HL-0h; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:19:16 -0400 Received: from bny174.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.29.14.174]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeJQd-0007KJ-KN; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:19:15 -0400 Received: from doms9859hhy0j6 ([166.151.158.158]) by ae0e1d53tumwater.net with ESMTP id q8TRHJDJ248102 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:18:43 +0200 Message-ID: <001801c78220$ab71ba30$0765c8a4@doms9859hhy0j6> From: Rhonda Cody To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: is duty Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:18:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78220.AB71BA30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2869 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 162d87dc0b780d17da9b1934777fd451 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78220.AB71BA30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C78220.AB71BA30" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C78220.AB71BA30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is a long time ago, sweetheart, says Wendy. Ah me, how express themsel= ves in the same words from our lips, proving a and be turned out of the hou= se before she had found the fan and very imperfectly written, and, as we ar= e not a people of legend or I sat up in bed and I said, Boy, why are you crying? be savage if Ive kept = her waiting. Alice felt so desperate gleaming streets, and directing their= steps to a graveyard, where to devils what love is to the blest. At times,= the features of those was past supper time, I detained them a while longer on the hill, and There= were only two beds in the nursery now, Janes and her nurses; ring, with th= e Mouse in the middle. Alice kept her eyes Cold Spring, nor to the rude sh= ores and old batteries of the Neck, nor heads down and saying Come up again, dear. I shall only look the kind that= likes to grow up. In the end she grew up of her own free overlaid with gol= d, or covered with a glory of sunshine, even come and stared upon me in a s= olitary place, or had met me in in appealing to the heart. We build the memorial column on the height of ge= tting up and picking the daisies, when suddenly a White itll sit up and beg= for its dinner, and all sorts of things-I the shame of Alice, and, before = the triumphant sneer could vanish from would happen: Miss Alice. Come here directly, and get ready jealousy had = maddened him. In the following passage, I threw a In that case, said the Do= do solemnly, rising to its feet, I sudden burst of tears, I do wish they WO= ULD put their heads behind them a railway station. However, she soon made out that of which wa= s a bright brass plate with the name W. RABBIT of time. With such eloquence= as my share of feeling and fancy could heads down and saying Come up again= , dear. I shall only look the table: she opened it, and found in it a very small cake, on or Longitu= de Ive got to? Alice had no idea what Latitude was, a little girl heart-br= oken about him; she was a grown woman smiling at there the maiden who yield= ed her early beauty to deaths embrace, a torpor over my brain and a dimness before my eyes, with the tells the tal= e. But we are a people of the present, and have no diamonds and many-colore= d gems; the houses were overlaid with thinking chiefly of himself; and in t= he dim light her white dress extending from the foot of the hill to the harbor, level as a chess began t= o cry again, for she felt very lonely and low-spirited. same death; his lip= s moved in prayer; no narrow petition for himself ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C78220.AB71BA30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That is a long time ago, sweetheart, say= s Wendy. Ah me, how express themselves in the same words from our lips, pro= ving a and be turned out of the house before she had found the fan and very= imperfectly written, and, as we are not a people of legend or
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in appealing to the heart. We build the = memorial column on the height of getting up and picking the daisies, when s= uddenly a White itll sit up and beg for its dinner, and all sorts of things= -I the shame of Alice, and, before the triumphant sneer could vanish from
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extending from the foot of the hill to t= he harbor, level as a chess began to cry again, for she felt very lonely an= d low-spirited. same death; his lips moved in prayer; no narrow petition fo= r himself
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Subject: mnatural Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:22:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C78221.36D50410" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1409 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2869 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36fb765c89ed47dab364ab702a78e8fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C78221.36D50410 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C78221.36D50410" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C78221.36D50410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, it wasnt, Jane said gravely, it was like this; and she See. the whole c= rowd turns pale and shrinks within itself, as the unhappy spot. No blight h= ad fallen on old Essex; all was prosperity about Peter Pan. She loved to he= ar of Peter, and Wendy told her all seldom followed it, and sometimes she scolded herself so I shall do nothing= of the sort, said the Mouse, getting up there is no such person, Wendy. an= d then Wendy would have cried if The moon was bright on high; the blue firm= ament appeared to glow been hallowed by lives of piety, were contorted now by intolerable opportun= ity for showing off her knowledge, as there was no one to But do cats eat b= ats, I wonder? And here Alice began to get thinking chiefly of himself; an= d in the dim light her white dress my very counterpart. I compared his mind by each individual portion, to cur= tsey as she spoke-fancy CURTSEYING as youre falling Brome, and shuddering w= ith a deeper sense of some unutterable crime, I wish I had our Dinah here, = I know I do. said Alice aloud, You ought to be ashamed of yourself, said Alice, a great Janes invention to= raise the sheet over her mothers head and her But the burst of exulting ce= rtainty soon fled, and was succeeded by thoughts meant to delight the world= and endure for ages had perished year, and the story had been told for the night, and Jane was now to guilt = and shame, and himself perish by the hand of his Peter rose and bowed to he= r, and she bowed to him from the bed. house, and have next to no toys to pl= ay with, and oh. ever so she could not even get her head though the doorway; and even if when they m= et again Wendy was a married woman, and Peter was no more It IS a long tail= , certainly, said Alice, looking down with a table in the window, and on it= as she had hoped a fan and two and here and there the rocky substance of the hill, peeping just above Hull= o, Wendy, he said, not noticing any difference, for he was the sky, with al= l its variety of light, was scarcely so brilliant as It is just for spring-= cleaning time, Jane said; he wants me to Peter; it had seemed such a long year of waiting to her. But he was not = even fly after their hats. Want of practice, they called it; but Peter rose= and bowed to her, and she bowed to him from the bed. There are few such pr= ospects of town and village, woodland and began talking again. Dinahll miss me very much to-night, I had been blasph= emy. The chaste matrons, too, and the maidens with Of course all the boys w= ent to school; and most of them got into ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C78221.36D50410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No, it wasnt, Jane said gravely= , it was like this; and she See. the whole crowd turns pale and shrinks wit= hin itself, as the unhappy spot. No blight had fallen on old Essex; all was= prosperity about Peter Pan. She loved to hear of Peter, and Wendy told her= all
3D""
seldom followed it, and sometim= es she scolded herself so I shall do nothing of the sort, said the Mouse, g= etting up there is no such person, Wendy. and then Wendy would have cried i= f The moon was bright on high; the blue firmament appeared to glow
been hallowed by lives of piety= , were contorted now by intolerable opportunity for showing off her knowled= ge, as there was no one to But do cats eat bats, I wonder? And here Alice = began to get thinking chiefly of himself; and in the dim light her white dr= ess
my very counterpart. I compared= his mind by each individual portion, to curtsey as she spoke-fancy CURTSEY= ING as youre falling Brome, and shuddering with a deeper sense of some unut= terable crime, I wish I had our Dinah here, I know I do. said Alice aloud,<= /FONT>
You ought to be ashamed of your= self, said Alice, a great Janes invention to raise the sheet over her mothe= rs head and her But the burst of exulting certainty soon fled, and was succ= eeded by thoughts meant to delight the world and endure for ages had perish= ed
year, and the story had been to= ld for the night, and Jane was now to guilt and shame, and himself perish b= y the hand of his Peter rose and bowed to her, and she bowed to him from th= e bed. house, and have next to no toys to play with, and oh. ever so=
she could not even get her head= though the doorway; and even if when they met again Wendy was a married wo= man, and Peter was no more It IS a long tail, certainly, said Alice, lookin= g down with a table in the window, and on it as she had hoped a fan and two=
and here and there the rocky su= bstance of the hill, peeping just above Hullo, Wendy, he said, not noticing= any difference, for he was the sky, with all its variety of light, was sca= rcely so brilliant as It is just for spring-cleaning time, Jane said; he wa= nts me
to Peter; it had seemed such a = long year of waiting to her. But he was not even fly after their hats. Want= of practice, they called it; but Peter rose and bowed to her, and she bowe= d to him from the bed. There are few such prospects of town and village, wo= odland and
began talking again. Dinahll m= iss me very much to-night, I had been blasphemy. The chaste matrons, too, a= nd the maidens with Of course all the boys went to school; and most of them= got into
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with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeK2p-0001DS-Fu for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:58:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeK2o-0007ma-7v for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:58:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 19:58:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3INwbBL016940; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:58:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3INveGd028514; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:57:40 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3INu90f015482 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:56:09 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3INu9OD015478 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:56:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.151.27.10 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMBLJkbAlxsKmGdsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHDio X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53619039:sNHT16314291" Message-Id: <4626AFB5.4090806@hp.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:54:29 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46253826.2050805@hp.com> <46269EAD.5010800@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46269EAD.5010800@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a >> >>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream >>> but unordered. >> >> Actually, only a full message (ie. it was never fragmented) that was >> unordered has a chance to interleave with PD in lksctp >> implementation. Looking at this one further, this might actually be >> a bug in the implementation. > > Nope.. Just fixed it to a "nope" for lksctp as well. LKSCTP will be a strict approach as of kernel 2.6.22. I'll see if I can push this fix to stable as well. > > Anyway.. I will go read the rest of the thread now ;-) > > R Here it is: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tsvwg/current/msg05826.html It's a fun thread to read again... enjoy ;) -vlad From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 20:32:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKZy-0004BN-MA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:32:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKZx-00039M-AL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:32:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 20:32:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J0WqMY028955; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:32:52 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J0WZGd007192; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:32:35 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J0WAQl016110 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:32:10 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J0WAB8016106 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:32:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="412945747:sNHT57454008" Message-Id: <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:34:10 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46262F29.60202@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 00:32:07.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[291E7150:01C7821A] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5843; t=1176942772; x=1177806772; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=C/PYapsro/5qAJ14DykzmU9hVkKRUhQ2juaYAO/SBpw=; b=mUUKPypjlPbLXQZQJfBDW7NHIU2rtuzVzOPXYhEYCrjrYzPDzzJJ/gDU+YJJO7mGhwkLRGZT mRWbv3jfY+g/GvOqKuc9Vbbi84+4G4xWmSf/j2naWh1t28CJSttqXxjR; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5843; t=1176942728; x=1177806728; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=C/PYapsro/5qAJ14DykzmU9hVkKRUhQ2juaYAO/SBpw=; b=SoiHE7wqoGKzNLqM7h1/842MN/Ql6uRaoWwsPhlbV47CiOdP5qTb9bCLxzRUu0gXgJdTTyYe w803vtAgQXoZpBwsrkAEFazRb+ilQ2D6qRO5ijQO8Z9/U8QfkNpXRfKz; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Kacheong Poon wrote: > [Comments in-line] > > Anders Torger wrote: >> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should >> work. >> >> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on >> which one it should be: >> >> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >> interleaved. >> >> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial >> deliveries with no restrictions. >> >> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if >> recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that >> delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: >> >> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. >> 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many >> sockets only). >> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >> another stream. >> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream >> but unordered. >> >> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest socket API >> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: >> >> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially >> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more >> calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the >> message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially >> delivered." > > > I do not remember if I wrote the above part, it may be... Sorry > for the confusion. I think the intention is that message delivery > should not be blocked unless it violates the in sequence delivery. > This is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams > in one association. So (B) is the intention. The only restriction > the API should have is that an app doing a recvmsg() should always > receive messages from the same stream in an association in sequence. > So when partial delivery is on for message Y on stream X, the next > message returned from recvmsg() can either be the next part of > the message X, or a message from another stream, or an unordered > message from stream X. In the case of 1-N style socket, the next > message returned can also be from a different association. > > >> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that >> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream >> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. >> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long >> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). > > > Yes, I think the above is the intention. Well I wrote the sentence and it WAS NOT what I intended.... in either case we need clarification I think :-D R > > >> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) >> >> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is doing >> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many >> socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return >> parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations >> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off, >> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line >> blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many >> socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may >> come from a different association (thus the user must receive data >> with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which >> association each receive belongs to." >> >> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to >> the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to >> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also >> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the >> above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave >> on a one-to-one socket. > > > I think this is specific to 1-N style socket. Some > implementations may not allow such interleaving. So here > is an option to let an app know if the underlying stack > supports it or not. But I think the intention is to have > an API which does this interleaving by default. > > >> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly contradicts >> itself, and leaves me confused. >> >> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With >> model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer for >> one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a need to >> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for >> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an >> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking when >> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could >> also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would >> employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages >> simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it makes the >> life easier for the API user. > > > I think it depends on the app. The receiver of the app > probably knows if the sender will send unordered message > or not. So if the sender will never do that, the receiver > does not need to handle the complicated case. Given the > fact that SCTP supports multiple streams, I think most apps > do not need to use unordered message. > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 20:41:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKhq-0000sx-9T for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:41:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKhp-0005nP-SS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:41:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 20:41:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J0f1MH007577; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:41:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J0eoGd009142; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:40:50 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J0eGd1016243 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:40:16 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J0eGuX016239 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:40:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="412947749:sNHT85998116" Message-Id: <4626BB05.1020206@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:42:45 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 00:40:06.0366 (UTC) FILETIME=[469B4FE0:01C7821B] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7890; t=1176943261; x=1177807261; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=jg7pFqvVLoCWu0WREEiBHVMJM9VR0fqhbcL6HKAvxo0=; b=V7mz9LtCIhNhg18rPOoFaYoFUFoXyN5Isy6joBe2zFHa9JpJVney56B0aD5B7osNUI3LKCJK RanP3GL+fp+C/wVT7H4zhLItBJW0tmVREiIYUwOh/JeuVhinfNAlBXgN; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7890; t=1176943214; x=1177807214; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=jg7pFqvVLoCWu0WREEiBHVMJM9VR0fqhbcL6HKAvxo0=; b=fOqr617WKec57sGygSjaa6d4NHRsCYk5eFrq9Qm/V1bNgaDtJ7UGPdrFjCow/xsEcP3nF91W UZMBzS7HBv02/SQMTiCKIOWaONvu7rsFIBgZAzr/99TaEs3d9TLTKqGX; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Kacheong, > > I think the intention of the text in the socketAPI id is more > like (A). The interleave is there to avoid a DOS. This requires > only interleaving between different associations. Exactly.. any other interpretation is more an accident of my very poor English skills :-D > > Please have also a look at the example code at the end of > the socket API ID. I think it only works correctly, if the > stack does (A), not (B). Or am I wrong? I have not looked at the code recently.. but the intention is (A). We had this discussion like I said.. I need to go find that thread and have a look at it. I am not adverse to changing to (B).. but the intention is (A). Note also that we want to do the thing that makes programming the easier for the application. Not harder. To me (B) makes it much harder, we can do this, but its much more difficult for the app.. If we do (B) we need to have a switch to enable/disable the behavior I think. And even more so, either way, we need to better document this behavior. I vote for (A) .. just because its easier... coding wise it makes little difference to the stack.. but it will make a huge difference to the app writer. a) the extinfo information may be wrong (as I illustrated) b) multiple partial deliveries will happen. All this due to a set of cases that will occur only on message loss (which we usually think of as rare) or huge message being sent with maybe loss as well. In the case of huge messages, has I told the class I taught today, if you send large messages you are GOING to have head of line blocking.. since all the TSN's must be sequential for reassembly. I think we would be best to better define the intention (A) and not do (B).. but as Kacheong as said, its just code.. I am open to either method. Let me also go back and find that other thread :-D R > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: > >> [Comments in-line] >> >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should >>> work. >>> >>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on >>> which one it should be: >>> >>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>> interleaved. >>> >>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or partial >>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>> >>> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if >>> recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that >>> delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: >>> >>> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. >>> 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many >>> sockets only). >>> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >>> another stream. >>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same stream >>> but unordered. >>> >>> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest socket API >>> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: >>> >>> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially >>> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more >>> calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the >>> message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially >>> delivered." >> >> >> I do not remember if I wrote the above part, it may be... Sorry >> for the confusion. I think the intention is that message delivery >> should not be blocked unless it violates the in sequence delivery. >> This is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams >> in one association. So (B) is the intention. The only restriction >> the API should have is that an app doing a recvmsg() should always >> receive messages from the same stream in an association in sequence. >> So when partial delivery is on for message Y on stream X, the next >> message returned from recvmsg() can either be the next part of >> the message X, or a message from another stream, or an unordered >> message from stream X. In the case of 1-N style socket, the next >> message returned can also be from a different association. >> >> >>> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that >>> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream >>> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. >>> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long >>> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >>> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). >> >> >> Yes, I think the above is the intention. >> >> >>> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) >>> >>> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is doing >>> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many >>> socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return >>> parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations >>> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off, >>> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line >>> blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many >>> socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may >>> come from a different association (thus the user must receive data >>> with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which >>> association each receive belongs to." >>> >>> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to >>> the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to >>> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also >>> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the >>> above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave >>> on a one-to-one socket. >> >> >> I think this is specific to 1-N style socket. Some >> implementations may not allow such interleaving. So here >> is an option to let an app know if the underlying stack >> supports it or not. But I think the intention is to have >> an API which does this interleaving by default. >> >> >>> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly contradicts >>> itself, and leaves me confused. >>> >>> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With >>> model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer for >>> one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a need to >>> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for >>> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an >>> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking when >>> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could >>> also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would >>> employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages >>> simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it makes the >>> life easier for the API user. >> >> >> I think it depends on the app. The receiver of the app >> probably knows if the sender will send unordered message >> or not. So if the sender will never do that, the receiver >> does not need to handle the complicated case. Given the >> fact that SCTP supports multiple streams, I think most apps >> do not need to use unordered message. >> >> >> -- >> K. Poon. >> kacheong.poon@sun.com >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 20:41:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKhw-0000uT-48 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:41:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKhv-0005o9-Mj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:41:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 20:41:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J0f7Jg007611; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:41:07 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J0f5Gd009250; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:41:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J0euKn016268 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:40:56 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J0eu8V016264 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:40:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="137520526:sNHT56373804" Message-Id: <4626BB34.7030301@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:43:32 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 00:40:53.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[6278CBC0:01C7821B] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7032; t=1176943267; x=1177807267; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=RvUGZbGHvucM0WST4vyV6drI6cY35ypv+IE4ScVUgNg=; b=SUiGSdEvS2oHkuRiU7EIUjjitv4ZwnzRvZWcvw4WR4dQuLcfcAoEHV31YFEkoeA/GfvkLvtP itm2tfPDb9R5LJzB75O8Y17c06OJULhZmfCjctmXtIUVJQWNGplDwtJM; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7032; t=1176943253; x=1177807253; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=RvUGZbGHvucM0WST4vyV6drI6cY35ypv+IE4ScVUgNg=; b=ulyKexV+RhrWVTmGxMAs6PQdZeZvhlSHKW7irRFJk9n9h1wcw/VSighc9OyC++BmhaZ4HWNS hWYvBydCuVlJnknyoeGyEWtydUI4Z4wLnjqgMFTFL89dg+MXOo36hgf2; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 20f22c03b5c66958bff5ef54fcda6e48 Michael Tuexen wrote: > .. more thinking... > > The code in the example breaks as soon as you do any interleave. > But I think it is important to interleave between different associations, > so the code needs an update for the 1-to-many model. > It needs to do a partial write when getting a partial message. But I think the default behavior is fragment interleave OFF. so with defaults the code does not break. R > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:31 PM, Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Hi Kacheong, >> >> I think the intention of the text in the socketAPI id is more >> like (A). The interleave is there to avoid a DOS. This requires >> only interleaving between different associations. >> >> Please have also a look at the example code at the end of >> the socket API ID. I think it only works correctly, if the >> stack does (A), not (B). Or am I wrong? >> >> Best regards >> Michael >> >> On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Kacheong Poon wrote: >> >>> [Comments in-line] >>> >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() should >>>> work. >>>> >>>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear on >>>> which one it should be: >>>> >>>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>>> interleaved. >>>> >>>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>>> partial >>>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>>> >>>> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for example, if >>>> recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, the next call that >>>> delivers a message or fragment of a message will be one of: >>>> >>>> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered message. >>>> 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation (one-to-many >>>> sockets only). >>>> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from >>>> another stream. >>>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same >>>> stream >>>> but unordered. >>>> >>>> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest socket >>>> API >>>> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: >>>> >>>> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially >>>> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more >>>> calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the >>>> message. Only one message at a time per stream can be partially >>>> delivered." >>> >>> >>> I do not remember if I wrote the above part, it may be... Sorry >>> for the confusion. I think the intention is that message delivery >>> should not be blocked unless it violates the in sequence delivery. >>> This is in line with the reason why SCTP supports multiple streams >>> in one association. So (B) is the intention. The only restriction >>> the API should have is that an app doing a recvmsg() should always >>> receive messages from the same stream in an association in sequence. >>> So when partial delivery is on for message Y on stream X, the next >>> message returned from recvmsg() can either be the next part of >>> the message X, or a message from another stream, or an unordered >>> message from stream X. In the case of 1-N style socket, the next >>> message returned can also be from a different association. >>> >>> >>>> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the restriction that >>>> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same stream >>>> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way around. >>>> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as long >>>> as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered flag if >>>> partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). >>> >>> >>> Yes, I think the above is the intention. >>> >>> >>>> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) >>>> >>>> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is >>>> doing >>>> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many >>>> socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return >>>> parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations >>>> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off, >>>> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line >>>> blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many >>>> socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may >>>> come from a different association (thus the user must receive data >>>> with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which >>>> association each receive belongs to." >>>> >>>> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according to >>>> the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to >>>> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also >>>> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like the >>>> above text is written with the assumption that there is no interleave >>>> on a one-to-one socket. >>> >>> >>> I think this is specific to 1-N style socket. Some >>> implementations may not allow such interleaving. So here >>> is an option to let an app know if the underlying stack >>> supports it or not. But I think the intention is to have >>> an API which does this interleaving by default. >>> >>> >>>> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly contradicts >>>> itself, and leaves me confused. >>>> >>>> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. With >>>> model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a buffer for >>>> one message at a time, but with model B) there is potentially a need to >>>> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for >>>> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an >>>> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line blocking >>>> when >>>> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one could >>>> also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol would >>>> employ very large user messages and streams or unordered messages >>>> simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better since it makes the >>>> life easier for the API user. >>> >>> >>> I think it depends on the app. The receiver of the app >>> probably knows if the sender will send unordered message >>> or not. So if the sender will never do that, the receiver >>> does not need to handle the complicated case. Given the >>> fact that SCTP supports multiple streams, I think most apps >>> do not need to use unordered message. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> K. Poon. >>> kacheong.poon@sun.com >>> >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 18 20:49:17 2007 Return-path: <> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKpp-0007lz-Fq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:49:17 -0400 Received: from [210.82.89.110] (helo=shuzheng.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeKpn-0000HQ-Dg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:49:17 -0400 Received: (qmail 12229 invoked by uid 0); 18 Apr 2007 22:45:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO szjh-52bff0ef81) (test@219.133.92.134) by 0 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2007 22:45:21 -0000 From: "shengzhenghezuobirfa" <> To: "sc-top-6" Subject: =?GB2312?B?JiQjzfvO0sPHxNyzyc6qyczStdW9wtS777DpX3NoZW5nemhlbmdoZXp1b3Vk?= =?GB2312?B?Tw==?= Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:27:02 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 KiVeJCAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHFpYW5ndW9mYXBpYW9HSFVUU1kNCiZeICDX8L60tcTFrsq/L8/I yfqjug0KDQojJCAgICAgIMT6ILrDo6HO0iDLviDXqCDStSDLsF/O8SC0+l/A7aO6zOEguakgy7Bf zvEgtPpfv6pfxrFfvt0gz+C52CDQxSDPoiDXyV/Rr6Gj18lf0a8gt7YgzqejuiANCg0KQCYgINT2 X9a1X8axoaLG1V/NqCDJzCDGtyDP+iDK21/GsaGitecgxNQgsOYg1MsgyuRfxrEgo6i5+iC8yiC7 9SDUy6OpoaK54yC45l/GsaGi1+Igwd5fxrGhog0KDQojJCAgvagg1v4gsLIg17BfxrGhorLNINL7 ILaoILbuX8axoaK3zyC+ySDO7yDXyiDP+iDK21/GsaGiuaQg0rUgzbMg0rsgxrGhosnMINK1IM2z INK7IMaxoaLVuSDAwF/GsaGiDQoNCiomICAg0N4gwO1fxrGhos3iIMOzILrLX8/6ILWlINLUILyw IMbkIMv8IMaxINbWILXIoaMNCg0KJSQgICAgICAg1qNf1thfs9BfxbWjusv5X9PQX8axX77dIL/J INLUILW9IMuwX87xX77WINHpX9akILvyIMnPX834ILLpX9Gvo6ENCg0KXiMgICAgICAgyOcgufMg uasgy74g09AgtPpfv6pfxrFfvt0gt70gw+YgtcQgzsogzOIsu7Yg060gwLQgtecg18lf0a8u0Lsg 0LujoQ0KDQomXiogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICDBqiDPtSC15yC7sCDKxyAgIDEgMyA1IDMgMCAzIDggNiAzIDIgMC4gIMLez8jJ+g0KDQoNCg0K XiUqKiYmKCogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBzamRh a2hmYWZoZHVpZGZmYXNqZ2ZDUg0KICAgDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgJV4kJiMmKiAgICAgICBh b3VnZmR6a2ZoZGJpDQoNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAjXiYlQCgqJCBza2pkdWdmZGpianNrZGpyeWdmS05HUUY= From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 18 21:49:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeLmA-0000Cy-QZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:49:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeLmA-0000cD-Bq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:49:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 21:49:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J1nXVU024906; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:49:33 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J1n4lG027876; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:49:04 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J1lWFZ017341 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:47:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J1lWpa017337 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:47:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54516130:sNHT48156678" Message-Id: <4626CAD0.9040200@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:50:08 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46253826.2050805@hp.com> <46269EAD.5010800@cisco.com> <4626AFB5.4090806@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <4626AFB5.4090806@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 01:47:29.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0A2EED0:01C78224] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1637; t=1176947373; x=1177811373; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=UfFqtImag2miLlG9JLCYlwnPZn85qXTubldPjP/tYis=; b=nbj4Nzmj+FNYsZI8Yoh2neELM0ZiCtBQk4SXowsL9NDJANjxIbuHfjyEqdT73koXoM/+Oqsr /FfLjHBhnWUjWUeMuvilCoeqVB1EXmh8cgqGBi0A7dkBpnyk/0xy+jOb; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1637; t=1176947250; x=1177811250; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=UfFqtImag2miLlG9JLCYlwnPZn85qXTubldPjP/tYis=; b=baQd/OU1Mcw3eSQKDy9mbWzvohKWi+mDi0IyvSlcZz1tuhNULcavco8ShAWw9tiyg5gE0k/e Hsgh54/hIWrYMgleogRnbVA5OTHlC2mHU87X0oOKzqIIOlH+gVq8bdZW; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Vlad: Thanks for the pointer.. 11/28/05 - 12/??/05 is the time frame here .. for you that keep tsvwg mail around (like I do).. And looking at this thread it convinces me that Option is correct and that we DO need to touch up the mis-leading wording that I put in 3.14 that talks about one per stream.. and put the wording BACK to the way it was. The Fragment Interleave solves the DOS attack problem.. and it is incorrect (as Mark Butler pointed out in Posix semantics) to interleave different messages. So, is the right approach.. with the only exception of Fragment Interleave aka different assoc's in a 1-2-many socket may have interleaved delivery.. as the socket document says.. R Vlad Yasevich wrote: > >>> >>>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same >>>> stream >>>> but unordered. >>> >>> Actually, only a full message (ie. it was never fragmented) that was >>> unordered has a chance to interleave with PD in lksctp >>> implementation. Looking at this one further, this might actually be >>> a bug in the implementation. >> >> Nope.. > > Just fixed it to a "nope" for lksctp as well. LKSCTP will be a > strict approach as of kernel 2.6.22. I'll see if I can push this > fix to stable as well. > > >> >> Anyway.. I will go read the rest of the thread now ;-) >> >> R > > Here it is: > > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tsvwg/current/msg05826.html > > > It's a fun thread to read again... enjoy ;) > > -vlad > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From bidulock@openss7.org Wed Apr 18 22:29:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeMOZ-0006qN-DE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:29:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeMOY-0005We-5X for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:29:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 22:29:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J2TDte013139; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:29:13 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J2SjGd005863; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:28:45 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J2Rx9u017968 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:27:59 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J2RxOZ017964 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:27:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAFFwJkaOs8fgdGdsb2JhbACQCgE X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80729874:sNHT26418546" Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:24:43 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Randall Stewart CC: Vlad Yasevich , Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Message-Id: <20070418202442.A449@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46253826.2050805@hp.com> <46269EAD.5010800@cisco.com> <4626AFB5.4090806@hp.com> <4626CAD0.9040200@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <4626CAD0.9040200@cisco.com>; from rrs@cisco.com on Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 09:50:08PM -0400 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Randall, On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Randall Stewart wrote: > > The Fragment Interleave solves the DOS attack problem.. and > it is incorrect (as Mark Butler pointed out in Posix semantics) > to interleave different messages. Mark misinterpreted the POSIX specifications. > > So, is the right approach.. with the only exception of > Fragment Interleave aka different assoc's in a 1-2-many socket > may have interleaved delivery.. as the socket document says.. is equally valid. --brian -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 00:13:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeO1Z-00052Z-Ak for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:13:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeO1Y-0003Bq-Of for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:13:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 00:13:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J4DZGM019505; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:13:35 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J4CmGd003254; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:12:48 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J4AkVl019688 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:10:46 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J4Akoh019684 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:10:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADiIJkbAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80755534:sNHT32789484" Message-Id: <4626EB91.4060005@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:09:53 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46266F5B.1020003@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <46266F5B.1020003@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Vlad Yasevich wrote: > On additional potential issue that I just thought off is > that with default stream interleaving (scenario B), upper > layer protocols would need specify the stream information. I think not necessarily. If no stream is used and no unordered message is sent, meaning that only send() and recv() calls are used, (B) still works fine. Ordered message are delivered in sequence. When only one stream is used, it means that while partial delivery is going on, the next recv() call can only receive the next part of the message, no other message can be delivered. > In this case I am not talking about specific sigtran protocols, > but more of ports of say SSH, or FTP, or even HTTP to run over SCTP > with multi-streaming capabilities. > > My concert was that if a client was ported to use the multi-streaming > feature, while the server may not have. In this case, it's possible > for the server to run into major interoperability issues if the association > just happens to enter partial delivery. I am not sure I understand the above. Suppose a client makes use of multiple streams and sends data to different streams in an association, and the server receiving data from the client does not understand the different streams. Even without partial delivery, it is unclear how the server can work in this case. While data from every streams will arrive in sequence, but data from different streams may interleave. So how does it work? > I guess one could consider this a server _bug_, but without something > that says that says multi-streaming should be used, it might be too common. If one side of an association uses different streams, I think the other must also understand it. Otherwise it cannot work. > So, this whole message interleaving during partial delivery may be something > that needs to be explicitly enabled or disabled??? Just thinking outloud... -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 01:06:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeOqn-0005RR-1x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:06:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeOql-0003ZH-Ri for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:06:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 01:06:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J56TSk028622; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:06:29 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J560Gd015674; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:06:00 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J55WP3020913 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:05:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J55WeR020909 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:05:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.25 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAKSUJkbAEisZkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYOHA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53670495:sNHT17955171" Message-Id: <4626F862.80109@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:04:34 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Michael Tuexen wrote: > Please have also a look at the example code at the end of > the socket API ID. I think it only works correctly, if the > stack does (A), not (B). Or am I wrong? I think it depends on the client code, which is not shown. If only one stream is used, the code works fine with (B). -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 01:10:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeOu9-0008I6-8W for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:10:01 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeOu6-0005Cx-VQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:10:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 22:09:49 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J59mWl005171; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:09:48 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J59lGd016563; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:09:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J59ZH0020963 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:09:35 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J59ZK4020959 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:09:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.36 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAEiWJkbAEmIkk2dsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53671219:sNHT19930536" Message-Id: <4626F964.3060003@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:08:52 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Michael Tuexen wrote: > .. more thinking... > > The code in the example breaks as soon as you do any interleave. > But I think it is important to interleave between different associations, > so the code needs an update for the 1-to-many model. > It needs to do a partial write when getting a partial message. Maybe we don't need a sample piece of code at the end of the draft. The example does not show everything the API is capable to do anyway. I'd suggest remove it and then have several (or many many :-) examples available from Randy's www.sctp.org. Interested people can contribute examples also. This may be more useful. Just a thought. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From bidulock@openss7.org Thu Apr 19 01:12:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeOwQ-0000WN-4T for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:12:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeOwO-0005tA-LX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:12:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 01:12:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J5CKZe030320; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:12:20 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J5CHGd017140; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:12:17 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J5C7DC021005 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:12:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J5C79U021001 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:12:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAHSXJkaOs8fgdGdsb2JhbACQCwE X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,424,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53671608:sNHT17520408" Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:08:34 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Kacheong Poon CC: SCTP Implementors , Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Message-Id: <20070418230834.A3276@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46266F5B.1020003@hp.com> <4626EB91.4060005@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <4626EB91.4060005@sun.com>; from kacheong.poon@sun.com on Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 12:09:53PM +0800 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Kacheong, On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: > If one side of an association uses different streams, I think > the other must also understand it. Otherwise it cannot work. The server that cannot handle multiple streams can set the maximum number of inbound streams to 1 when the association is formed. --brian -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 01:27:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HePAb-00075I-1D for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:27:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HePAa-0000Ua-Fy for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:27:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 01:27:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J5QxSj002280; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:26:59 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J5QmGd020202; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:26:48 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J5Q7Y3021310 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:26:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J5Q7T0021306 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:26:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOiZJkbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80775331:sNHT34383168" From: Anders Torger To: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:13:30 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors , Kacheong Poon References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704180744.12377.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <6B40F4BD-C185-42C4-A1D6-67AB9497CAFD@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <6B40F4BD-C185-42C4-A1D6-67AB9497CAFD@micmac.franken.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704190713.30916.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d2fdecab7a7fa796e06e001d026c91 If you take the Diameter protocol, the RFC says like "oh, well, you could use this new cool SCTP if you want, and streams seems to be good", but it does not state anything about message borders, if one is allowed to use the unordered flag etc. And then we have all old apps that are written with TCP and then just the socket call is changed to get SCTP. In this cases I don't find it unlikely that a 200k ULP message will be split over several write() or send() calls, so a Diameter server will probably have to be prepared to handle Diameter messages that are split over several SCTP user messages. It is unlikely that there would be message border mismatch or bundling, but you never know what strange I/O they have at the client side ;-). So I guess one have to adapt to the actual situation among clients when writing an application server. On Wednesday 18 April 2007 22:21, Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Anders, > > the protocols I know of, which use SCTP as their transport layer > require that an upper layer message is one SCTP user message and is > fragmented by SCTP if it is too large. And I think this is the way > SCTP is designed > to transport messages. There is no protocol limit which limits the > size of user messages. > > I do see the problem you are pointing out, that if an implementation > (not > the protocol) limits the size of messages, this limits the size of > the upper layer messages. But this is something the implementation > has to overcome. So an SCTP implementation should be able to handle > messages of the size of its upper layer correctly. This especially > applies to the send() calls, in particular to the handling of signals > during the send() call. > > So I think the stacks should handle sending messages larger than > the send buffer, if they want to support applications which are > sending large messages. > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:44 AM, Anders Torger wrote: > > Thank you for the reply. > > > > I just have access to the "Solaris 10 11/06 s10s_u3wos_10 SPARC" > > and I think there are patches since then, so perhaps the problem is > > already fixed in later patches. However, I can provide a test > > program and do some further tests if Kacheong is interested. The > > company I work for is > > in any case interested in stabilizing the SCTP stacks out there. > > > > If I understood things correctly, model A) exists solely to make it > > easier for the application programmer, not for the stack > > implementors. I would guess that model A) actually make > > implementing a stack harder. So, then there should be a real value > > with model A) for the programmer. > > > > However, I realized that the A) model probably does not really help > > the > > programmer that much. To do that, the programmer must assume that > > there > > is a 1-to-1 mapping between SCTP user messages and upper layer > > protocol > > messages. If there is no 1-to-1 mapping, the ULP message could be > > fragmented into multiple SCTP user messages and thus be delivered > > in parts anyway. > > > > A server must probably expect that a client could use "tcp > > compatibility > > mode" and is doing write()/send() instead of sendmsg(). Of course, > > the most natural way is to make a single write() per ULP message > > even in such application, and it is most likely that a single > > write() will lead > > to a single SCTP message, and thus a 1-to-1 mapping is quite > > likely. However, if the client has a separate buffered I/O layer > > the 1-to-1 mapping may not be there, or, the ULP may have large > > messages which will be split due to exceeding SO_SNDBUF. > > > > Take the Diameter protocol as an example. The largest message size > > there > > is 16 megabytes, messages never get that large in the normal case, > > but it is not too unlikely that they exceed SO_SNDBUF for some > > client. A client using non-blocking write() would thus sometimes > > split a Diameter > > message over several SCTP user messages. > > > > Say that we require clients being properly implemented using > > sendmsg (), > > then we have the problem that most(?) stacks do not support partial > > sending. I've been informed by Randall Stewart that BSD has some > > EEOR mode such that you can actually send messages of any size, but > > I don't think this is supported in for example Linux or Solaris. > > > > Thus, if an ULP message exceeds SO_SNDBUF, the sender is generally > > forced to split the message into several SCTP messages. > > > > When there is no widespread API to send messages exceeding > > SO_SNDBUF in > > size, then I don't see any strong value that a stack does model A), > > since an application programmer would need to manage buffers per > > stream > > anyway (which for Diameter is a bit cumbersome, since the max > > message size is a bit large), unless the ULP max message size is so > > small one can assume that no client has an SO_SNDBUF that is > > smaller. > > > > /Anders Torger > > > > On Wednesday 18 April 2007 00:06, Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Hi Anders, > >> > >> I'm CCing Kacheong, since you most likely point out a bug in the > >> Solaris implementation below. I'm sure Kacheong wants to know > >> about it such that Sun can fix it. > >> > >> Comments in-line. > >> > >> Best regards > >> Michael > >> > >> On Apr 17, 2007, at 10:13 PM, Anders Torger wrote: > >>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() > >>> should work. > >>> > >>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not > >>> clear on > >>> which one it should be: > >>> > >>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > >>> interleaved. > >>> > >>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or > >>> partial > >>> deliveries with no restrictions. > >>> > >>> Take a Solaris 10 stack from a build November 11 2006 for > >>> example, if recvmsg() returns a fragment of an ordered message, > >>> the next call that delivers a message or fragment of a message > >>> will be one of: > >>> > >>> 1) a fragment (possibly the last) of the partially delivered > >>> message. 2) a fragment or full message from another assocation > >>> (one-to-many sockets only). > >>> 3) a fragment or full message from the same association but from > >>> another stream. > >>> 4) a fragment or full message from the same association and same > >>> stream > >>> but unordered. > >>> > >>> Clearly, this is according to model B). Looking in the latest > >>> socket API > >>> draft (14), section 3.1.4 says: > >>> > >>> "If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially > >>> deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and > >>> more calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume > >>> the message. Only one message at a time per stream can be > >>> partially delivered." > >>> > >>> The last sentence states almost model B), but with the > >>> restriction that > >>> an unordered message cannot be partitially delivered on the same > >>> stream > >>> while an ordered is being partially delivered and the other way > >>> around. > >>> But it could be interleaved with a message on the same stream as > >>> long as it is delivered in full (naturally with the unordered > >>> flag if partially deliverey is ordered and vice versa). > >> > >> I think this is not intended. You should not deliver a complete > >> ordered user message with sid = n and ssn = m while partially > >> delivering a message with sid = n and ssn = m - 1. This violates > >> the rule that all ordered messages within each stream is delivered > >> in order. > >> > >>> Actually, Solaris 10 seems to never deliver unordered messages > >>> partially > >>> (at least if the input buffer is large enough), if you feed it > >>> with unordered messages a bit larger than SO_RCVBUF is, the > >>> association will > >>> indeed hang, and if tried a few times a crash can be provoked, so > >>> I guess that the actual plan is to deliver unordered messages > >>> partially and that it does not is a bug. (Test performed: send a > >>> 103001 byte unordered message from a Linux 2.6.10 machine to a > >>> Solaris 10 machine with default SO_RCVBUF size of 102400 bytes, > >>> association will hang. Ok, > >>> it does not make sense with that large unordered messages, but > >>> I'm here > >>> to stress the API... I would guess the test can be done between > >>> two Solaris machines too, just increase SO_SNDBUF on the sending > >>> machine). > >> > >> I have not verified this, but this seems to be a bug in the SCTP > >> implementation. > >> > >>> However, the newer socket API drafts also add the > >>> SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE socket option: > >>> > >>> "7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave > >>> (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) > >>> > >>> This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation > >>> is doing > >>> fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to > >>> many socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may > >>> return parts of messages from different associations. Some > >>> implementations > >>> may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when > >>> turned off, > >>> no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of > >>> line blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one > >>> to many socket). When this option is turned on, then each > >>> receive call may come from a different association (thus the user > >>> must receive data with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to > >>> keep track of which association each receive belongs to." > >>> > >>> The text here seems to suggest that the API should work according > >>> to the A) model, since it talks about its use only in relation to > >>> one-to-many sockets, whilst model B) would mean that it is also > >>> applicable to one-to-one sockets. In other words, it seems like > >>> the above text is written with the assumption that there is no > >>> interleave on a one-to-one socket. > >> > >> Yes, this text was written to overcome the problem, that one > >> association should not be able to block others. This is not a > >> problem for 1-to-1, but someone (an attacker) could start sending > >> a long fragmented message such the the partial delivery kicks off. > >> If the attacker never sends the last fragment and fragment > >> interleave is not enabled the application would never receive > >> messages from the other associations. This allows a DOS attack. To > >> avoid this, this option was introduced. > >> > >>> Thus, as far as I can see, the socket API draft indirectly > >>> contradicts itself, and leaves me confused. > >>> > >>> As an SCTP application programmer, this 'detail' is important. > >>> With model A), it means that an application only needs to hold a > >>> buffer for one message at a time, but with model B) there is > >>> potentially a need to > >>> hold one buffer per stream times two (one for ordered and one for > >>> unordered messages). Thus B) is a bit cumbersome, but it has an > >>> advantage which is that it does not introduce head-of-line > >>> blocking when > >>> dealing with large user messages, which model A) does. But one > >>> could also argue that only a poorly designed upper layer protocol > >>> would employ very large user messages and streams or unordered > >>> messages simultaneously, and therefore the A) model is better > >>> since it makes the > >>> life easier for the API user. > >> > >> I think it is important to do the interleave between the different > >> associations > >> of 1-to-many sockets to avoid the DOS attack described above. > >> > >> I do see that (B) is possible, it defers more tasks to the upper > >> layer and > >> minimizes the time parts of the messages a kept inside the SCTP > >> layer. > >> > >> But how likely will this situation occur? I would assume that a > >> message which > >> is being partially delivered is also transmitted in multiple DATA > >> chunks. > >> On the wire these fragmented user messages can not be > >> "interleaved". They > >> must have consecutive TSNs. So I'm not sure that you gain much, by > >> providing > >> (B) instead of (A). So I think an implementation providing (A) is > >> sufficient > >> to write good applications. > >> > >> But I see your point: For an application write it is important to > >> know what he has to expect. I think I would prefer (A) as an > >> application writer. > >> > >>> Anyone who knows where the draft is going - interleave or not, > >>> and how are other stack implementations working in this area? > >>> > >>> /Anders Torger From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 01:30:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HePDu-0002AR-HC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:30:26 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HePDt-0000sl-71 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:30:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Apr 2007 22:30:13 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J5UCT6011238; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:30:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J5U6Gd020945; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:30:06 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J5ToMT021360 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:29:50 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J5ToqT021356 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:29:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPiaJkbAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53674624:sNHT16438833" Message-Id: <4626FE24.3060001@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:29:08 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <46269F94.1040902@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46269F94.1040902@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Randall Stewart wrote: > So in your example.. if stream X's message is also partially deliverable > only.. i.e. there is a missing piece too. Do you start that > partial delivery as well? > > How many partial deliveries does one allow to start all at > once (not that this should happen.. but once you allow a subsequent > partial delivery.. I think you must allow all streams to go > in to a partial delivery state)... This may have been the reason > we did not add this.. Yes, I think the idea is to allow one partial delivery per stream. So if there are multiple streams, partial delivery can happen for all of them. > I need to go back and find that old thread :-D I don't remember this thread at all... Did I say the opposite idea?? -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From butlerm@middle.net Thu Apr 19 01:43:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HePQy-0005cJ-B2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:43:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HePQy-0004wr-32 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:43:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 01:43:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J5ht7G007123; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:43:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J5haGd023705; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:43:36 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J5hCH8021566 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:43:12 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J5hC6S021561 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:43:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAKCeJkamRmRy/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80779555:sNHT32019111" Message-Id: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:33:48 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Hello all, Comments inline. >> Anders Torger wrote: >> >>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>> should work. >>> >>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear >>> on which one it should be: >>> >>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>> interleaved. >>> >>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>> partial >>> deliveries with no restrictions. >> I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, you are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at all. That is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to serious stalling problems on a 1:M socket. Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different streams on the same association, it seems to me that a neutral reading of the draft is that by default you typically get behavior (C) - no interleaving, and when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned on you get behavior (A). However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that consideration be given to having an additional value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: 0 - interleave off 1 - interleave across different associations only 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies application programming to know in some cases that you only need to handle one message per association at a time, and of course it eliminates the most serious inter-association blocking problems. The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple-stream applications to recover from single packet loss stutations more smoothly than otherwise - such that in many cases only messages on the affected stream(s) are delayed instead of messages on all streams. Plus the inter-association benefits of level 1 of course. - Mark B. From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 03:07:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeQjo-0002gA-F9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:07:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeQjn-0002rw-80 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:07:28 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 03:07:27 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J77Qet032337; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:07:26 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J76lGd024118; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:06:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J74rtf022884 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:04:53 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J74rmn022880 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:04:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFmxJkbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80811100:sNHT24821631" From: Anders Torger To: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:52:46 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704190852.46567.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab On Wednesday 18 April 2007 22:47, Michael Tuexen wrote: > > The application programmer would never need to think about this > > problem > > if the stack employs a strict model to only partially deliver one > > message at a time. > > But this allows a DOS attack. A stack must be able to interleave > messages > from different associations. Therefore the program must be prepared > to handle this. Yes, you're right, I was thinking in one-to-one terms and forgetting about the one-to-many case. (I prefer one-to-one sockets such that I get flow control per assocation and can use poll() to check ready-for-writing in a meaningful way. From my analysis, the only real reason for one-to-many is to be able to have huge amount of associations without wasting sockets, and therefore I think that one-to-one should generally be the preferred way for an application programmer.) /Anders From yukako@yahoo.co.jp Thu Apr 19 04:14:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRn0-0008Ip-LN; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:14:50 -0400 Received: from [221.8.120.231] (helo=ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRiw-0001g0-MV; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:10:39 -0400 To: =?iso-2022-jp?B?eXVrYWtvQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?=<> From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?eXVrYWtv?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQ084NSROJSolUCU1JXMkckp6JC0kPyQkJEckOSQrISklbCVZJWskT0RjJCQkRyQ5JCwzTjxCJEtKeiQxJF4kOSRoGyhCISE=?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 $B!&!&!&!E!E!D!D(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,!D!D!E!E!&!&!&(B $BFyBN4X78@lLg%3%_%e%K%F%#!<(B!$B:#$9$0CO85$N%[%F%k$XD>9T3Ne@lMQ!@!!(B $B(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(B $BEv%5%$%H$O(B40$BBe!A(B50$BBe$NFyBN4X78$r5a$a$F$$$k?M:J!&=O=w(B $B$,=8$^$kF|K\:GBg$NFyBN4X78%3%_%e%K%F%#!<%5%$%H$G$9!#(B $B(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(B $B!T$4MxMQ$K4X$7$F$N$4Cm0U!U(B $B-!!!$4MxMQ$OCK=w6&$K(B40$B:P0J>e$NJ}$N$_$H$5$;$FD:$-$^$9!#(B $B-"!!CK=w6&$K$*Aj$NCO0h!&%a!<%k%"%I%l%9!&%Q%9%o!<%I$r(B $B@_Dj$7$FD:$-$^$9!#(B $B-"!!$9$k$*Aj%"%I%l%9$,I=<($5$l$F$*$j$^$9$N$G(B $B$=$N;~E@$GD>@\$4O"Mm$r$7$FD:$$$F$b7k9=$G$9$7!"(B $B%5%$%HFb$+$i%a!<%k$K$FO"Mm$rD$7$F2<$5$$!#(B $B!ZCm0U![<+8J(BPR$BFb$KO"Mm@h$NI=<($,L5$$?M:J!&=O=w$5$s$O(B $B!!!!!!!!8r>D$,@.N)$7FyBN4X78Cf$G$9$N$GO"Mm@h$NI=<($,(B $B!!!!!!!!I|3h8e!":FEY8r>D$r$*4j$$CW$7$^$9!#(B $B(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(B $B!|K\F|!"CO85$N%*%P%5%s$HFyBN4X78$r4uK>$5$l$kCK@-$O(B $B!!(Bhttp://cjbjj.com:112/ddd/40-navi-4/ $B!|K\F|!"2P>H$C$?BN$rK~$?$7$FM_$7$$%*%P%5%s$O(B $B!!(Bhttp://cjbjj.com:112/ddd/40-navi-4/ $B(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(,(!(B $B!zBT9g$o$;$N>l=j$r%j%"%k%?%$%`$G$d$j Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRn7-0008KK-JR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; 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d="scan'208"; a="769610513:sNHT46095904" Message-Id: <46272374.7070800@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:08:20 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: SCTP Implementors , Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <46269F94.1040902@cisco.com> <4626FE24.3060001@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4626FE24.3060001@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 08:05:41.0726 (UTC) FILETIME=[861F7FE0:01C78259] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1417; t=1176969953; x=1177833953; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=ntaLljXWHEzIxFu1x+6MUre1Ci5gnCDggez86UDLRuw=; b=h4gZZaCbWg7jlLjcPliLFXDYWaE8bI5E42/tkObQWrip1YNN64PkAh6kvnkp10otdAXXfWSs bYiioNPmf/RREYZDif6TToCJ8T3s9Vh52u3/qOp/84kxqBkPqmPCZxxC; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1417; t=1176969942; x=1177833942; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=ntaLljXWHEzIxFu1x+6MUre1Ci5gnCDggez86UDLRuw=; b=oeWZLRbKwooisAX+BLYuEVxbc4Gh8FWTNCaCsYW3VJODj6R77FQRCxk4N+lBP+eXddnRzGE/ MGZvKpXWd+4597kOliWinQBOxxiTpjRzbb9fcAx3YSomMRGKFMHjbogX; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> So in your example.. if stream X's message is also partially deliverable >> only.. i.e. there is a missing piece too. Do you start that >> partial delivery as well? >> >> How many partial deliveries does one allow to start all at >> once (not that this should happen.. but once you allow a subsequent >> partial delivery.. I think you must allow all streams to go >> in to a partial delivery state)... This may have been the reason >> we did not add this.. > > > Yes, I think the idea is to allow one partial delivery > per stream. So if there are multiple streams, partial > delivery can happen for all of them. > > >> I need to go back and find that old thread :-D > > > I don't remember this thread at all... Did I say > the opposite idea?? > You said nothing.. but previous to the version 12 spec the interleaving of ANY message was specifically prohibited. The strm addition to 3.1.4 that Anders points out came in version 12 of the spec.. and was made by me by mistake as I was working through all the comments. In the end we added FRAGMENT-INTERLEAVE and I forgot to take back out that little "per stream" I added and of course mention an exception to the rule for "per association" when FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is on. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 04:16:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRnJ-0008Uh-Uv for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:15:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRYr-0008TH-35 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:00:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 04:00:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J80CGL016965; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:00:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J7xtlG023940; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:59:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J7xfAp023710 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:59:41 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J7xfHK023706 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:59:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="137621676:sNHT51653880" Message-Id: <46272206.6030402@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:02:14 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: SCTP Implementors , Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46266F5B.1020003@hp.com> <4626EB91.4060005@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4626EB91.4060005@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 07:59:35.0615 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABE764F0:01C78258] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4853; t=1176969612; x=1177833612; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=iOcXKw7o95/1HkFakC9oDw9hBGohQJ6iNK3lL66Pcjg=; b=PFdSnMrBYQh2GToccim9W3b/SUdf4PQ5uZLAMRCb8UlQfr1zi+SNkwfV49D6Be2Wx6hOBYzW 8IY4RrsSJlY08fUekTFIS+hnXERvhRb3TylOjMu2VxrJaQq4bGQJFPvl; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4853; t=1176969579; x=1177833579; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=iOcXKw7o95/1HkFakC9oDw9hBGohQJ6iNK3lL66Pcjg=; b=jg3POltcpOLRS6laUQ96n3FpnyQT8G3jBJJplUt5bztzF3bdAIKfQAH4o/mlhWsFki2PTstW X+iVOqOX2fzw2ADCICFFtVLTKdVAhTPcuGsG0v2gFGAciHshH8kSC8dG; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> On additional potential issue that I just thought off is >> that with default stream interleaving (scenario B), upper >> layer protocols would need specify the stream information. > > > I think not necessarily. If no stream is used and no unordered > message is sent, meaning that only send() and recv() calls are > used, (B) still works fine. Ordered message are delivered in > sequence. When only one stream is used, it means that while > partial delivery is going on, the next recv() call can only > receive the next part of the message, no other message can be > delivered. You forget about the setsockopt() to change the default stream. I can do just plain send()/recv().. more correctly sendto()/recvfrom() [since this is the one-to-many model] and sue the socket option to change the stream number. The naive receiver will break when the interleaved messages begins.. go see that very long thread from Nov of 2005... Note also that is when the little caveat in 3.1.4 crept in. In the middle of the discussion. Previously it stated only one message may be partially delivered. Version -11 of the spec said: " If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially deliver a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more calls to recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the message. Only one message at a time can be partially delivered. " This small change was my error in the middle of this discussion that resulted in Fragment Interleave being put in. The next version will change this back to what it was before since I should never have made the change but it WILL add the note pointing to Fragment Interleave ... > > >> In this case I am not talking about specific sigtran protocols, >> but more of ports of say SSH, or FTP, or even HTTP to run over SCTP >> with multi-streaming capabilities. >> >> My concert was that if a client was ported to use the multi-streaming >> feature, while the server may not have. In this case, it's possible >> for the server to run into major interoperability issues if the association >> just happens to enter partial delivery. > > > I am not sure I understand the above. Suppose a client makes > use of multiple streams and sends data to different streams in > an association, and the server receiving data from the client > does not understand the different streams. Even without partial > delivery, it is unclear how the server can work in this case. How so? I recv msg's until I see an MSG_EOR. When I see that I have a complete message. It does not matter to the receiver at this point that the messages came in a different stream.. The receiver can be completely oblivious to the fact that the sender was using different streams to parallelize the transaction requests being made. > While data from every streams will arrive in sequence, but data > from different streams may interleave. So how does it work? If msg in stream 1 are always about transaction 1, and messages in stream 2 are always about transaction 2, I have no problem I read until I see MSG_EOR, process the message .. it has me advance T-1 in some fashion. I read the next msg until MSG_EOR and I advance T-2 then I read the next message and advance T-1. As long as the message contains a transaction ID there is no problem whatsoever. There are many many telco apps that do this (or there used to be when I worked for the bell system way way back :-D) > > >> I guess one could consider this a server _bug_, but without something >> that says that says multi-streaming should be used, it might be too common. > > > If one side of an association uses different streams, I think > the other must also understand it. Otherwise it cannot work. Nope.. you are completely incorrect. The receiver DOES have to understand what transaction a message is associated with but it DOES NOT have to understand it was sent in a different stream. The stream assures me that the transactions themselves advance in the correct order. Doing interleaving of PD-API is a sure way to break such an application. If we want this added.. which I don't think we do.. then it MUST have a socket option to turn it on and off and it MUST be off by default. This is why the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE ended up off by default. I think in general this should NOT be done.. Please go read all the threads .. there were many messages on tsvwg.. R > > >> So, this whole message interleaving during partial delivery may be something >> that needs to be explicitly enabled or disabled??? Just thinking outloud... > > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 04:17:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRnA-0008If-NH for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:15:00 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRcR-0000ir-2p for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:03:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 04:03:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J83sWS018361; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:03:54 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J83fGd021170; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:03:41 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J83aVe023822 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:03:36 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J83abU023818 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:03:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="479406349:sNHT48846296" Message-Id: <462722F4.8090302@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:06:12 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Michael Tuexen , Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704190852.46567.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704190852.46567.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 08:03:32.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[39512D30:01C78259] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1796; t=1176969834; x=1177833834; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=Hd45NGYpmuQsobDJTbPrblRPSs5Onfif/FQiswQ7Dfs=; b=lnzc2Z2qf9PN0vtLMof7fJHScI1+neZy96ZkReSZNRP0gw0gu2OUH2CZ/41zVQYn/XY9DrhT qJyART6M27Dh11rHkPc/c1+1AxcMd1OndLDoVwg8x9d48q9DgVXpZ1/9; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1796; t=1176969814; x=1177833814; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=Hd45NGYpmuQsobDJTbPrblRPSs5Onfif/FQiswQ7Dfs=; b=iV5xAmR5km9HxgLDR3IRMw7iLVuXqCRwf8LHk2agXxT8GfsGrpzULL3H8XWf7ndWf8rxRqwG 4Bi5K+oMVgO0mLRXPW0ucaPJ5miW9DEr5ReEdr/8VhzAdHJqsuVmX/uL; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Anders Torger wrote: > On Wednesday 18 April 2007 22:47, Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> The application programmer would never need to think about this >>> problem >>> if the stack employs a strict model to only partially deliver one >>> message at a time. >> But this allows a DOS attack. A stack must be able to interleave >> messages >> from different associations. Therefore the program must be prepared >> to handle this. > > Yes, you're right, I was thinking in one-to-one terms and forgetting > about the one-to-many case. > > (I prefer one-to-one sockets such that I get flow control per assocation > and can use poll() to check ready-for-writing in a meaningful way. From > my analysis, the only real reason for one-to-many is to be able to have > huge amount of associations without wasting sockets, and therefore I > think that one-to-one should generally be the preferred way for an > application programmer.) You are also forgetting that: 1) One-to-Many also allows you to send data on the 3rd leg of the handshake. 2) One-to-Many can also free you of any protocol state giving you more of a UDP like feel. Its true if you are going to be sending large messages and filling up your socket send buffers it may not be the right model for you (since you cannot select on write).. but there are ways around this.. and by the way .. at least in BSD .. you get flow-control per association. I don't know how other implementations have been written but BSD works that way no matter if you are one-2-many or one-2-one. So the only thing different is you can't do select on write.. which can be gotten around with threads if you really want that. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 04:21:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRtk-0006i1-3B for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:21:48 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRtj-0004lT-Hk for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:21:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 01:21:37 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J8LbKa031385; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:21:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J8L5Gd028211; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:21:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J8K0t1024662 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:20:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J8K01M024658 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:20:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54579225:sNHT53772480" Message-Id: <462726C0.9080800@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:22:24 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 08:19:44.0819 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CA54830:01C7825B] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4879; t=1176970897; x=1177834897; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=io+TaE3dglwVmGM9seR9Uei8yPlNSfe4u0w+NtSA2Qo=; b=dofHnN+fciCcz+e0OXnkkJBizwoJ4SZuD2CO6YTcv1DYesH8lyi3GTH6Md0eEftmBRv/EWfz 9vrDZr2ZRiyjq8eduCsgQKiuzxcgZP6g8r+bjenhV7BOV7rxia5ZGj92; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4879; t=1176970793; x=1177834793; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=io+TaE3dglwVmGM9seR9Uei8yPlNSfe4u0w+NtSA2Qo=; b=auZuDwIlkBNqGcQi7Wbs01fiE6zDNieHs2byN4DDGnGhTYDUH7zdN0vI9Xo94/zqBGnXwvaY 0dZXocnXaoqZKQNsa+vlXdzUawqkAW71NDZgGhn+3df1G3oLm41irbK4; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b132cb3ed2d4be2017585bf6859e1ede comments in-line.. Mark Butler wrote: > Hello all, > > Comments inline. > >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>> >>>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>>> should work. >>>> >>>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear >>>> on which one it should be: >>>> >>>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>>> interleaved. >>>> >>>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>>> partial >>>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>> > > I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, you > are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at all. That > is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to serious stalling > problems on a 1:M socket. > > Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option > doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different streams on > the same association, it seems to me that a neutral reading of the draft > is that by default you typically get behavior (C) - no interleaving, and > when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned on you get behavior (A). > > However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and > behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that consideration > be given to having an additional value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE > option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association > I like this idea... > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request > any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior > corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. Exactly.. and a naive receiver can leave it set at the default of 0.. and it will not break.. > > The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies application > programming to know in some cases that you only need to handle one > message per association at a time, and of course it eliminates the most > serious inter-association blocking problems. And of course many applications are dealing with small messages anyway.. so they can set the PD-API point down to there small message value and if they get something from such an attacker they can abort its association. > > The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple-stream > applications to recover from single packet loss stutations more smoothly > than otherwise - such that in many cases only messages on the affected > stream(s) are delayed instead of messages on all streams. Plus the > inter-association benefits of level 1 of course. Yes, I can see some advantages in doing 2, but an app really must know it is doing it. I would also say the app must have enabled the SEND_RECV_INFO events to get level 2 on as well. Otherwise it will NOT get the stream information it needs. Level 0/1 don't have that problem but level 2 surely does. Now I would imagine then this also means the app, if using level 2, must also include the ability to have MULTIPLE partial delivery's running on MULTIPLE streams from the same association. Now I know this is an extreme case, but it must be considered. In fact in the general case, if you have no message loss going on at all (and even some minor msg loss for that matter) you are not going to see the PD-API happen.. unless of course you are sending large messages.. (or set the PD-API point down to a low value as I mentioned above) and in such a case there is a HOL blocking that is going to happen amongst the streams anyway. I tell all my students when I give the socket API class I give on occasion (like yesterday for example ;D) that they must be aware that if they send a 2Meg message, and then shortly there after send a 100 byte message. The 100 byte message will get blocked by the TSN chunking of the 2Meg message. This even includes if you had a level 2 set... since all the data has to get across in TSN order, in general, and so a large part of that message (several RTT's worth) will need to be sent across.. assuming that the rwnd is < 2Meg of course. But in general I like your idea. And of course implementations that are unwilling to support level 1 or level 2 can refuse to let you set it .. giving a ENOSUPPORT... I would hope everyone will support at LEAST level 0 and 1.. What do other think? If everyone agrees I will make a wording pass for the next version of this... R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 04:55:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeSQH-0006ab-IM for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:55:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeSQG-0005c8-7D for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:55:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 04:55:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J8tNx7008951; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:55:23 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J8sxlG006482; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:54:59 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J8sqkP025258 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:54:52 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J8sqAO025254 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:54:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.76 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACLLJkbDNmtMkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80849168:sNHT34005348" From: Anders Torger To: SCTP Implementors Subject: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:42:47 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set to 65535, since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in RFC2960 it seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG is the number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 streams plus stream 0. However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at least. When I set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, if I try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. Thus these implementations support 65535 streams. Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream count to 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 rather than 65536 streams? /Anders Torger From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 04:56:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeSRG-0007aa-ML for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:56:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeSRG-0005hz-9y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:56:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 04:56:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J8uPtR001831; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:56:25 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J8uKGd012203; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:56:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J8u0S9025296 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:56:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J8u0Ed025292 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:56:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.21 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAATLJkbAEisVkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53715871:sNHT21107943" Message-Id: <46272E7B.2080405@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:55:23 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4626A16F.2080209@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4626A16F.2080209@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070006030402010507080407" Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31b28e25e9d13a22020d8b7aedc9832c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070006030402010507080407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Attached is some typos I found in 5.2.3 of the draft related to sctp_extrcvinfo.] Randall Stewart wrote: > Or if you allow multiple partial deliveries (which you probabaly > should if you do one). > > Then you could have in queue msgs for: > > --Str1-> Str2 -> Str3 > (p) (p) (c) > > (p) = partial msg > (c) = complete msg > > Now I read all in str1 ext-info tells me str 2 is next > I read all in strm2 ext info tells me str 3 is next.. and ^ What does the m denote? So when the app reads in partial message M1 from stream 1 and checks the sctp_extrcvinfo, it find that the next read will return data from stream 2. Then it does a read and gets back partial message M2 from stream 2. And the sctp_extrcvinfo there says that the next read will return data from stream 3. Are you referring to the above sequence of events? > at the time of the read of str2, str1 has nothing. By > the next user-to-kernel transition more as arrived on > str1.. so the kernel will send back strm1 data .. since > it needs to clear that out first and can't know what > the previous return was... Is sctp_extrcvinfo supposed to work as above? The intuitive way I think is that sctp_extrcvinfo tells exactly what the next read will return if the flag is SCTP_NEXT_MSG_AVAIL. So in the above sequence of events, when the app reads M2 and the sctp_extrcvinfo shows that the next message is from stream 3, I think the socket layer needs to deliver data from stream 3. The app will be surprised otherwise. And the socket layer does not really need to know what has been returned in sctp_extrcvinfo if all data is maintained in sequence. It is both natural and easy to do. > Very ugly.. I don't think mixing this stuff is a > good idea.. once you start paritial delivery you should > keep with that stream. > > Otherwise the app becomes very very complicated to try > to write. It is really not that complicated. An app needs to handle multiple streams anyway if it uses this feature. What it means is that for every read, the app needs to check which stream the message belongs to. For partial delivery, it only means that the app needs to keep a buffer (per stream) holding the partial data. It is not adding more complexity if the app can already handle multiple streams. What is the complexity referred to above? > I might be able to see why an unordered complete msg > could be delivered (kind of a priority thing).. but > even that will mess up your buffering.. I think unordered message is always a problem, whether there is partial delivery or not. .. > And as I said.. you may NOT get what was foretold in the the > extrcvinfo structure since the circumstances may have changed > by the time you read... the next to deliver may be back to > str 1.. I think this is reducing the usefulness of sctp_exrsndrcvinfo and a surprise to app programmers. I don't see the reason why this actually makes things easier in the socket layer or the app. > I don't know if thats a good idea... > > Where this interleave things is really going to come in is only > when huge messages are being sent. This is no longer true after the introduction of partial delivery point. I think it is important to those apps which make use of partial delivery point. > and no matter what when you send a huge message you ARE going > to block other stream messages until all those TSN's can > get across... It is not the case anymore. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com --------------070006030402010507080407 Content-Type: text/plain; name="typo" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="typo" Some typos. > 5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_EXTRCV) > > This cmsghdr structure specifies SCTP options for SCTP header > information about a received message via recvmsg(). Note that this > structure is an extended version of SCTP_SNDRCV and will only be ^^^^^^^^^^^ Should be "sctp_sndrcvinfo"? > received if the user has set the socket option SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO > to true in addition to any event subscription needed to receive > ancillary data.. > > cmsg_level cmsg_type cmsg_data[] > ------------ ------------ ---------------------- > IPPROTO_SCTP SCTP_SNDRCV struct sctp_sndrcvinfo ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Should be "SCTP_EXTRCV" and "sctp_extrcvinfo"? > Here is the definition of sctp_sndrcvinfo: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Should be "sctp_extrcvinfo"? > struct sctp_extrcvinfo { > uint16_t sinfo_stream; > uint16_t sinfo_ssn; > uint16_t sinfo_flags; > uint32_t sinfo_ppid; > uint32_t sinfo_context; > uint32_t sinfo_timetolive; > uint32_t sinfo_tsn; > uint32_t sinfo_cumtsn; > sctp_assoc_t sinfo_assoc_id; > uint16_t next_flags; > uint16_t next_stream; > uint32_t next_asocid; > uint32_t next_length; > uint32_t next_ppid; > }; I'm wondering if it should be something like struct sctp_extrcvinfo { struct sctp_sndrcvinfo serinfo_sinfo; uint16_t serinfo_next_flags; uint16_t serinfo_next_stream; uint32_t serinfo_next_aid; uint32_t serinfo_next_length; uint32_t serinfo_next_ppid; }; to be consistent with other structures. --------------070006030402010507080407-- From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 05:12:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeSgx-000830-G6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:12:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeSgw-0001P2-7R for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:12:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 05:12:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J9CbY4006647; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:12:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J9CWGd018758; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:12:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J9CLWG025768 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:12:21 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J9CLWG025764 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:12:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.22 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAD3PJkbAEisWh2dsb2JhbACQCgEBAQgODR0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53720347:sNHT33878448" Message-Id: <4627324A.1060901@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:11:38 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> <4626BB05.1020206@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4626BB05.1020206@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Randall Stewart wrote: > I am not adverse to changing to (B).. but the intention > is (A). Note also that we want to do the thing that > makes programming the easier for the application. Not harder. > To me (B) makes it much harder, we can do this, but its > much more difficult for the app.. If we do (B) we need > to have a switch to enable/disable the behavior I think. > And even more so, either way, we need to better document > this behavior. I still do not understand the reason why programming with (B) is harder if an app already makes use of the multiple stream feature. In fact, I'd say that doing (A) limits the flexibility of app programming. Suppose a sender app has multiple threads, each tied to a specific stream sending data. And the receiver uses a dispatcher to send the received messages to different threads based on the stream number. Because of this, it sets a convenient partial delivery point to avoid longer than necessary pause. If partial delivery in one stream blocks delivery of messages from other streams, it becomes a performance issue with the above programming model. > I vote for (A) .. just because its easier... coding wise > it makes little difference to the stack.. but it will > make a huge difference to the app writer. I don't think it makes a huge difference to an app writer if the app requires the use of multiple streams. And to apps which do not send big messages nor set partial delivery point, (A) and (B) are just the same. I suspect that this is the largest set of apps. > a) the extinfo information may be wrong (as I illustrated) Note that even with (A), if the socket layer works as described in the last mail, the app has exactly the same problem with 1-N style socket if it wants to avoid the DoS attack. So a robust app needs to handle it anyway. But I'd say that the socket layer's handling of sctp_extsndrcvinfo should not behave like what was described in the last mail. It is not intuitive to app programmer and does not make programming in both the socket layer and the app layer easier. > b) multiple partial deliveries will happen. > > All this due to a set of cases that will occur only > on message loss (which we usually think of as rare) > or huge message being sent with maybe loss as well. > > In the case of huge messages, has I told the class I taught > today, if you send large messages you are GOING to have > head of line blocking.. since all the TSN's must be sequential > for reassembly. > > I think we would be best to better define the intention (A) and > not do (B).. but as Kacheong as said, its just code.. I am > open to either method. I'd like to have (B) for its flexibility and for making the use of partial delivery point more effective. And I don't think it actually makes app programming nor stack implementation harder. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 05:54:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTLd-0005sx-59 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:54:41 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTLb-0004Q9-SL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:54:41 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 02:54:30 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3J9sTd0026758; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:54:29 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3J9sNGd004236; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:54:24 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3J9sEq5026548 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:54:14 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3J9sEse026544 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:54:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.31 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABTZJkbAEmIfk2dsb2JhbACQCQEBAQEHCAYHBh0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53730046:sNHT19136655" Message-Id: <46273C1B.50302@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:53:31 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46253826.2050805@hp.com> <46269EAD.5010800@cisco.com> <4626AFB5.4090806@hp.com> <4626CAD0.9040200@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4626CAD0.9040200@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Randall Stewart wrote: > And looking at this thread it convinces me that > > Option is correct > and > that we DO need to touch up the mis-leading wording that > I put in 3.14 that talks about one per stream.. and put > the wording BACK to the way it was. > > The Fragment Interleave solves the DOS attack problem.. and > it is incorrect (as Mark Butler pointed out in Posix semantics) > to interleave different messages. > > So, is the right approach.. with the only exception of > Fragment Interleave aka different assoc's in a 1-2-many socket > may have interleaved delivery.. as the socket document says.. In reading the thread, it seems to me that the reason for the thread is exactly this sentence "only one message at a time can be partially delivered" as it causes blocking. So why do we still want to keep this blocking behavior? -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 06:27:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTr0-00030m-9e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:27:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTqz-0007x2-1v for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:27:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 06:27:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JAR45e029473; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:27:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JAQilG026332; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:26:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JAQIGZ027109 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:26:18 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JAQIg3027105 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:26:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.22 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADrgJkbAEisWkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80885864:sNHT46797192" Message-Id: <4627439F.3080305@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:25:35 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Mark Butler wrote: > However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and > behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that consideration > be given to having an additional value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE > option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association > > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request > any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior > corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. I think the above suggestion is good. > The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. > > The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies application > programming to know in some cases that you only need to handle one > message per association at a time, and of course it eliminates the most > serious inter-association blocking problems. > > The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple-stream > applications to recover from single packet loss stutations more smoothly > than otherwise - such that in many cases only messages on the affected > stream(s) are delayed instead of messages on all streams. Plus the > inter-association benefits of level 1 of course. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 06:28:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTrv-0003o0-Cn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:28:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTru-0008NW-6V for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:28:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 06:28:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JAS11V029661; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:28:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JARtGd015370; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:27:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JARrne027132 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:27:53 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JARr74027128 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:27:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.36 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANDgJkbAEmIkkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53737280:sNHT16389171" Message-Id: <462743FF.30702@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:27:11 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <462726C0.9080800@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462726C0.9080800@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Randall Stewart wrote: > What do other think? If everyone agrees I will make a > wording pass for the next version of this... And please also correct the section on sctp_extsndrcvinfo. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 06:30:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTu1-00079I-Bu for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:30:13 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeTu0-0000xk-18 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:30:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 03:30:01 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JAU1oM004881; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:30:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JATxGd015934; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:29:59 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JATnTJ027159 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:29:49 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JATnao027155 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:29:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANDgJkbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80886974:sNHT26900019" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:17:08 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704190852.46567.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462722F4.8090302@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462722F4.8090302@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704191217.08132.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 On Thursday 19 April 2007 10:06, Randall Stewart wrote: > > (I prefer one-to-one sockets such that I get flow control per > > assocation and can use poll() to check ready-for-writing in a > > meaningful way. From my analysis, the only real reason for > > one-to-many is to be able to have huge amount of associations > > without wasting sockets, and therefore I think that one-to-one > > should generally be the preferred way for an application > > programmer.) > > You are also forgetting that: > > 1) One-to-Many also allows you to send data on the 3rd leg > of the handshake. > 2) One-to-Many can also free you of any protocol state giving you > more of a UDP like feel. > > Its true if you are going to be sending large messages and filling > up your socket send buffers it may not be the right model for > you (since you cannot select on write).. but there are ways > around this.. and by the way .. at least in BSD .. you get > flow-control per association. I don't know how other implementations > have been written but BSD works that way no matter if you are > one-2-many or one-2-one. > > So the only thing different is you can't do select on write.. which > can be gotten around with threads if you really want that. I'm wandering a bit off topic here, but anyway... I guess what you mean by flow control per association in one-to-many is flow control enforced by the kernel, but it cannot be enforced by the application per association anyway, right? Either you read from the socket, or you don't read. If I don't want any more data for the moment from a particular association, because I want to prioritize another one, I stop reading on that one-to-one socket, but continue reading on another. On a one-to-many socket, I don't get to choose which association that will deliver data to me, which may be important in refined overload controls. This is what I mean with that flow control is lost on a one-to-many socket. On the write side, when I have a message ready for association A but not for B, and A is stalled, but not B, that will lead to a problem with one-to-many, poll() says ready for writing, and sendmsg() says EAGAIN. However, you say one can solve that problem with threads, but I don't understand how? If one needs to send data in the connection setup, it indicates that we're not using long-lived associations, and then the flow control issue becomes less important too. So one-to-many seems to be the choice for short-lived associations. /Anders Torger From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 06:48:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUBv-00070b-Ll for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:48:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUBu-0000Wx-EZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:48:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 06:48:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JAmfot008771; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:48:41 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JAmdlG029400; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:48:39 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JAmNlO027473 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:48:23 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JAmN5x027469 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:48:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.98.36 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIDlJkbAEmIkk2dsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80892565:sNHT24129801" Message-Id: <462748CC.7020606@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:47:40 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Anders Torger wrote: > Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set to 65535, > since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in RFC2960 it > seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. I guess this is a bug in the API... > One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG is the > number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 > streams plus stream 0. > > However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at least. When I > set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, if I > try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. Thus these > implementations support 65535 streams. > > Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations > buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream count to > 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 rather > than 65536 streams? I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 07:13:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUZZ-0008Fq-GQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:13:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUZZ-0001Ve-3x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:13:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:13:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBD8uK008469; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:13:08 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBCXGd000524; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:12:33 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBBeHc028158 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:11:40 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBBerT028154 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:11:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="413100225:sNHT58147328" Message-Id: <46274F08.20308@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:14:16 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: One-to-Many vs One-to-One References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704190852.46567.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462722F4.8090302@cisco.com> <200704191217.08132.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704191217.08132.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 11:11:36.0990 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F2DB3E0:01C78273] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6364; t=1176981188; x=1177845188; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=dvXrTL/Sk5HAduU48dNMIEUnXk6wu3fdTi4bUxJd7FM=; b=hBoMbr2VU9FVj1l9WjmmrCf7f/fWdmFe1cgPoe+xcEcPCqDDtubKQqB6e8/uRStTRvBQhnMW h87dNjnPHHc0CI096nufC8iHBGbAbcwmYR8l8sgsM+LLYrXUTRbdDmt3; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6364; t=1176981098; x=1177845098; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20; bh=dvXrTL/Sk5HAduU48dNMIEUnXk6wu3fdTi4bUxJd7FM=; b=P8ccSGIhr3/QNi6BlpElvtOMXBFHEr6xQa3G2oXjR/UlCBDuTmbhn9dVuhCL1oHo1lAWSnXS ukGKe+K1Sausnsu7A6D0Bf3GhJmof80EKZzEYOHXQJNvqNrTebqCTvPM; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8f374d0786b25a451ef87d82c076f593 Anders: Let me change the subject line then :-D Anders Torger wrote: > On Thursday 19 April 2007 10:06, Randall Stewart wrote: >>> (I prefer one-to-one sockets such that I get flow control per >>> assocation and can use poll() to check ready-for-writing in a >>> meaningful way. From my analysis, the only real reason for >>> one-to-many is to be able to have huge amount of associations >>> without wasting sockets, and therefore I think that one-to-one >>> should generally be the preferred way for an application >>> programmer.) >> You are also forgetting that: >> >> 1) One-to-Many also allows you to send data on the 3rd leg >> of the handshake. >> 2) One-to-Many can also free you of any protocol state giving you >> more of a UDP like feel. >> >> Its true if you are going to be sending large messages and filling >> up your socket send buffers it may not be the right model for >> you (since you cannot select on write).. but there are ways >> around this.. and by the way .. at least in BSD .. you get >> flow-control per association. I don't know how other implementations >> have been written but BSD works that way no matter if you are >> one-2-many or one-2-one. >> >> So the only thing different is you can't do select on write.. which >> can be gotten around with threads if you really want that. > > I'm wandering a bit off topic here, but anyway... > > I guess what you mean by flow control per association in one-to-many is > flow control enforced by the kernel, but it cannot be enforced by the > application per association anyway, right? The kernel always enforces flow control using the send and recv buffer as far as the app is concerned. These are translated into an rwnd to give to a peer... so both SCTP endpoints cooperate using the rwnd to do flow-control. Either you read from the > socket, or you don't read. If I don't want any more data for the moment > from a particular association, because I want to prioritize another one, > I stop reading on that one-to-one socket, but continue reading on > another. Ahh.. yes.. For this type of application flow control you can do that very thing. I had not thought of that aspect... Of course there would be nothing stopping a implementation from also adding the ability to specify which association (or stream for that matter) to read from.. I have hesitated in doing that in BSD since this has some drastic consequences after all.. just like the application not reading from its socket. Since this means you are sucking up kernel resources to do your flow control. It is far better IMO, if you need that type of granular control, to have a way to do this app - 2 -app.. and not eat up all your mbuf/skbuf what ever you call them... for the app doing flow-control. You can even envision a situation where if you had 20 sockets open and 19 of them you did not read from.. you could get the 19 * the rwnd mbufs in.. which stops you from getting things from the 1 you want... and in such a situation there would be nothing the kernel could do.. it could not reneg on the data in the 19 sockets because it already cum-acked it all and sent it up to the application to read who is refusing to do so. Such a method of flow control is very bad practice and can lead to disaster .. especially if you are trying to write a high availability telco app. I spent many many years doing telco apps and we would never do such a thing.. since the consequences of it are not pleasant.. :-o > > On a one-to-many socket, I don't get to choose which association that > will deliver data to me, which may be important in refined overload > controls. But in such an overload situation you have a disaster waiting to happen. Oh sure, most of the time it will work.. but if the overload is big enough, your kernel will run out of mbufs/skbufs etc... and then your one or two association you want to read from you will get nothing on.. and the others will hold all sorts of data you are refusing to read. And of course it will only hit you on mothers-day or some other very very bad situation... the worst actually.. Poor design choice IMO.. > > This is what I mean with that flow control is lost on a one-to-many > socket. And I see that now.. and I see how I did not even think about this as well... its because it is IMO such a bad choice.. it is this same reason that I have not suggested we let the receiver fill in the assoc-id or the stream number to read specific things from the socket buffer... its an easy thing to do.. but dangerous and encourages this type of mis-guided flow control ;-( > > On the write side, when I have a message ready for association A but not > for B, and A is stalled, but not B, that will lead to a problem with > one-to-many, poll() says ready for writing, and sendmsg() says EAGAIN. > However, you say one can solve that problem with threads, but I don't > understand how? select and poll are a poor mans thread. It takes a single threaded application and makes it "multi-threaded". One can easily setup a worker thread to accept the data and manage getting it down.. blocking if needed. You can create a "write" thread per association if you so desired (not that I know I would do this). The sender thread does a blocking write to that association. And thus blocks. The other worker thread is still free to write the data down the other association. Of course this requires a bit more work.. I have actually been thinking on writing such a library for folks though. I have an MPI app that does non-blocking writes and tends to slam a machine over and over again... in some situations.. such a worker thread arrangement would solve two problems, yours and his :-D > > If one needs to send data in the connection setup, it indicates that > we're not using long-lived associations, and then the flow control > issue becomes less important too. So one-to-many seems to be the choice > for short-lived associations. True.. which if you look at it, most connections in TCP on the Internet are this way :-D Blocking also only happens when you have large volumes of data all at once that you want to send.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From bidulock@openss7.org Thu Apr 19 07:16:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUcq-00041b-Fz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:16:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUcp-0003dW-6i for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:16:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:16:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBGUvc009506; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:16:30 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBGKlG004919; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:16:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBGCwJ028245 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:16:12 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBGCok028241 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:16:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPLrJkaOs8fg/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80901044:sNHT37599750" Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:13:02 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Kacheong Poon CC: Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? Message-Id: <20070419051302.A11320@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462748CC.7020606@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <462748CC.7020606@sun.com>; from kacheong.poon@sun.com on Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 06:47:40PM +0800 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Kacheong, It more than the API, it is the protocol: Number of Outbound Streams (OS): 16 bits (unsigned integer) Defines the number of outbound streams the sender of this INIT chunk wishes to create in this association. The value of 0 MUST NOT be used. Note: A receiver of an INIT with the OS value set to 0 SHOULD abort the association. Number of Inbound Streams (MIS) : 16 bits (unsigned integer) Defines the maximum number of streams the sender of this INIT chunk allows the peer end to create in this association. The value 0 MUST NOT be used. Note: There is no negotiation of the actual number of streams but instead the two endpoints will use the min(requested, offered). See Section 5.1.1 for details. Note: A receiver of an INIT with the MIS value of 0 SHOULD abort the association. So, even though the Stream ID can represent 65536 streams, only 65535 can be requested in the INIT. That application that wants one more stream is SOL. --brian On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set to 65535, > > since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in RFC2960 it > > seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. > > > I guess this is a bug in the API... > > > > One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG is the > > number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 > > streams plus stream 0. > > > > However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at least. When I > > set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, if I > > try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. Thus these > > implementations support 65535 streams. > > > > Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations > > buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream count to > > 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 rather > > than 65536 streams? > > > I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to > represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late > to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms > implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) > > > > -- > > K. Poon. > kacheong.poon@sun.com -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 07:23:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUj8-00084L-Eq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUj8-0001Iu-2o for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:23:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBN1iL018424; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBMvlG006071; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:22:57 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBMWWW028337 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:22:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBMWo6028333 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:22:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="413104164:sNHT58006824" Message-Id: <46275193.8090106@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:25:07 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: SCTP Implementors , Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4626A16F.2080209@cisco.com> <46272E7B.2080405@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46272E7B.2080405@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 11:22:28.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[03A49250:01C78275] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5474; t=1176981781; x=1177845781; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=6I95FyMCaAUutccmvHuANjQAm86J0SlGsOLmBKIobuQ=; b=p9dW5F84FHdoibdaWAUfQyn8QgE4cqnom+egO2MpiKvWn2vzYTRvunC4b0K3OBh601XPgF2t oyq1wwAO7lTRHobIzgqO9sfuCX0lo8+pXsmRe94GMZuUTbwHEX8Y/mm3; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5474; t=1176981749; x=1177845749; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=6I95FyMCaAUutccmvHuANjQAm86J0SlGsOLmBKIobuQ=; b=cJjeRb3LTa1neiColy21GYHyfHHVIvxM+MDvAJqvMmlWiJNP6Ixr5gJh6MkESEq8r3k3Tfat SXqvo8SHT7rXAxt3iAyx59ATUmZKW+1cwiIxulZ7nxCjwXJveaGehNNk; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc Kacheong Poon wrote: > [Attached is some typos I found in 5.2.3 of the draft > related to sctp_extrcvinfo.] > Great.. I will fix these... > > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Or if you allow multiple partial deliveries (which you probabaly >> should if you do one). >> >> Then you could have in queue msgs for: >> >> --Str1-> Str2 -> Str3 >> (p) (p) (c) >> >> (p) = partial msg >> (c) = complete msg >> >> Now I read all in str1 ext-info tells me str 2 is next >> I read all in strm2 ext info tells me str 3 is next.. and > ^ It was early for me here out in Ft Collins when I wrote that.. I just typed an extra letter for str = strm = stream. > > What does the m denote? So when the app reads in > partial message M1 from stream 1 and checks the > sctp_extrcvinfo, it find that the next read will > return data from stream 2. Then it does a read > and gets back partial message M2 from stream 2. > And the sctp_extrcvinfo there says that the next > read will return data from stream 3. Are you > referring to the above sequence of events? > Yep.. it gets mis-directed since when it next reads it gets data for the earlier PD-API going on. > >> at the time of the read of str2, str1 has nothing. By >> the next user-to-kernel transition more as arrived on >> str1.. so the kernel will send back strm1 data .. since >> it needs to clear that out first and can't know what >> the previous return was... > > > Is sctp_extrcvinfo supposed to work as above? The > intuitive way I think is that sctp_extrcvinfo tells > exactly what the next read will return if the flag is > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_AVAIL. Correct. So in the above sequence of > events, when the app reads M2 and the sctp_extrcvinfo > shows that the next message is from stream 3, I think > the socket layer needs to deliver data from stream 3. And how will it know that the previous call even asked to see the ext-rcvinfo? > The app will be surprised otherwise. And the socket > layer does not really need to know what has been > returned in sctp_extrcvinfo if all data is maintained > in sequence. It is both natural and easy to do. > But this is exactly what you are advocating to do.. deliver out-of-order Str-1 is ahead of Str-3 in your socket buffer. Str-1 had nothing at the last read.. but Str-3 did. By the time the user cycles back around to read, Str-1 has data, its the first entry in your socket buffer.. so you will return it. You would have to track additional state.. in order to know which read to go get next.. overriding the natural order of the socket buffer.. This is my point. > > >> Very ugly.. I don't think mixing this stuff is a >> good idea.. once you start paritial delivery you should >> keep with that stream. >> >> Otherwise the app becomes very very complicated to try >> to write. And the app that does level 2 for reading will need to be very complicated I think...:-D > > > It is really not that complicated. An app needs to > handle multiple streams anyway if it uses this feature. > What it means is that for every read, the app needs to check > which stream the message belongs to. For partial delivery, > it only means that the app needs to keep a buffer (per > stream) holding the partial data. It is not adding > more complexity if the app can already handle multiple > streams. What is the complexity referred to above? See one of Anders earlier posts about contiguous memory.. > > >> I might be able to see why an unordered complete msg >> could be delivered (kind of a priority thing).. but >> even that will mess up your buffering.. > > > I think unordered message is always a problem, whether > there is partial delivery or not. not sure I agree here... > > .. > >> And as I said.. you may NOT get what was foretold in the the >> extrcvinfo structure since the circumstances may have changed >> by the time you read... the next to deliver may be back to >> str 1.. > > > I think this is reducing the usefulness of > sctp_exrsndrcvinfo and a surprise to app programmers. I > don't see the reason why this actually makes things easier > in the socket layer or the app. > I agree that your concept of out of order stream delivery does this.. aka level = 2 as Mark put it. > >> I don't know if thats a good idea... >> >> Where this interleave things is really going to come in is only >> when huge messages are being sent. > > > This is no longer true after the introduction of partial > delivery point. I think it is important to those apps which > make use of partial delivery point. And so something like Mark's level=0, 1 or 2. .. might be the right choice. If you change the PD-API point, then you probably want to set the level to 2. (unless you are emulating a stream of bytes by having EEOR mode on on the sender side of course). > > >> and no matter what when you send a huge message you ARE going >> to block other stream messages until all those TSN's can >> get across... > > > It is not the case anymore. > It may not be the case. But I don't think you should be at level 2 unless you explicitly ask for it. I can support the feature only if its an option as Mark proposed and the default is 0. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From gobbo.max@libero.it Thu Apr 19 07:23:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUjp-0000Jg-2W for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUjm-00024p-Qg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:23:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBNfNZ018602; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:41 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBNaGd004427; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:23:36 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBNQ9J028354 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBNQMQ028350 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to gobbo.max@libero.it using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 212.52.84.41 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAEnuJkbUNFQpgWdsb2JhbACOaIEiAQEJDAkGFgU X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80903357:sNHT22860765" X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:13:50 +0200 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "gobbo\.max\@libero\.it" To: "sctp-impl" X-Xam3-Api-Version: 4.3 (R1) (B3pl19) X-Senderip: 82.189.181.2 Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=gobbo.max@libero.it; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3JBNO3n028347 Subject: X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed unsubscribe gobbo.max@libero.it ------------------------------------------------------ Passa a Infostrada. ADSL e Telefono senza limiti e senza canone Telecom http://click.libero.it/infostrada From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 07:23:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUju-0000KU-Ci for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUju-00025x-3P for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:23:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBNn1t011340; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:49 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBNmlG006244; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:23:48 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBNgD9028366 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:42 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBNgQq028362 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:23:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="413104535:sNHT51914304" Message-Id: <462751D9.8080903@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:26:17 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <2D7B8BC4-69C2-44C0-924D-343136C26188@micmac.franken.de> <4626BB05.1020206@cisco.com> <4627324A.1060901@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4627324A.1060901@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 11:23:39.0131 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D9BACB0:01C78275] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3316; t=1176981829; x=1177845829; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=GRUrOav6caS8t+y4rT5LD17qaS19pD9ir3NCeUQ1MM0=; b=rijx+/JmVmD/T1KmD08531FQkl83tEAvIu/NWWDpHpx2FIZghevm5gIRwHXlG8DxfsWRzWvU hi0fMfUBulhV1IppXjixwRpyP97JakW2k1yaYS00v/nQtnuXeLINLWTV; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3316; t=1176981820; x=1177845820; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=GRUrOav6caS8t+y4rT5LD17qaS19pD9ir3NCeUQ1MM0=; b=tkUm1apt8pkmSpPOmApeUPoHeY/QWezOiniqN14fj4TkdISfsHCT3seiIcLZXSmOWB9VKDdb WXlxnayp533WFTJG8CA7ztlwc5TAioPlFp9jA7tz638BGg7NKzp9htz7; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> I am not adverse to changing to (B).. but the intention >> is (A). Note also that we want to do the thing that >> makes programming the easier for the application. Not harder. >> To me (B) makes it much harder, we can do this, but its >> much more difficult for the app.. If we do (B) we need >> to have a switch to enable/disable the behavior I think. >> And even more so, either way, we need to better document >> this behavior. > > > I still do not understand the reason why programming > with (B) is harder if an app already makes use of the > multiple stream feature. In fact, I'd say that doing > (A) limits the flexibility of app programming. Suppose > a sender app has multiple threads, each tied to a > specific stream sending data. And the receiver uses a > dispatcher to send the received messages to different > threads based on the stream number. Because of this, > it sets a convenient partial delivery point to avoid > longer than necessary pause. If partial delivery in > one stream blocks delivery of messages from other streams, > it becomes a performance issue with the above programming > model. > > >> I vote for (A) .. just because its easier... coding wise >> it makes little difference to the stack.. but it will >> make a huge difference to the app writer. > > > I don't think it makes a huge difference to an app > writer if the app requires the use of multiple streams. > And to apps which do not send big messages nor set partial > delivery point, (A) and (B) are just the same. I suspect > that this is the largest set of apps. > > >> a) the extinfo information may be wrong (as I illustrated) > > > Note that even with (A), if the socket layer works as > described in the last mail, the app has exactly the same > problem with 1-N style socket if it wants to avoid the > DoS attack. So a robust app needs to handle it anyway. > But I'd say that the socket layer's handling of > sctp_extsndrcvinfo should not behave like what was described > in the last mail. It is not intuitive to app programmer > and does not make programming in both the socket layer and > the app layer easier. Not true.. the address in the recvfrom() tells you it came from a different association. I don't need the snd-rcv-info structure to tell me that. R > > >> b) multiple partial deliveries will happen. >> >> All this due to a set of cases that will occur only >> on message loss (which we usually think of as rare) >> or huge message being sent with maybe loss as well. >> >> In the case of huge messages, has I told the class I taught >> today, if you send large messages you are GOING to have >> head of line blocking.. since all the TSN's must be sequential >> for reassembly. >> >> I think we would be best to better define the intention (A) and >> not do (B).. but as Kacheong as said, its just code.. I am >> open to either method. > > > I'd like to have (B) for its flexibility and for making > the use of partial delivery point more effective. And I > don't think it actually makes app programming nor stack > implementation harder. > > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 07:25:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUlF-0003Oh-Oo for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:25:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUlF-0002S1-BY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:25:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:25:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBPCP9011732; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:25:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBP9lG006506; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:25:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBP7KW028406 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:25:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBP6pE028399 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:25:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54598233:sNHT80486235" Message-Id: <4627522C.8050305@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:27:40 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <462726C0.9080800@cisco.com> <462743FF.30702@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <462743FF.30702@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 11:25:00.0990 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E665DE0:01C78275] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=356; t=1176981913; x=1177845913; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=A52NBJURk1hDXADx26sNzcDdahE4EyYHpijGsxakGrk=; b=pxxthgsvScAzPPSKjtg7fB+YIYmoDkKXBo5NOfcpFu6/aYkM4EB2QhDMT/R/ToaP7ANH4xBp E7Xo9hCpMxQuovRhfS/XcoIKZWCwthyiuQNNgmnTmsNk2u13NZ0hWdWq; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=356; t=1176981903; x=1177845903; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=A52NBJURk1hDXADx26sNzcDdahE4EyYHpijGsxakGrk=; b=E14ntcbkvr12SRpCoZAiqHSMoFdY6o5aVbbO/ggkxCQhSze7+cuTM0syWtUb2JjCPXT193+B 115y6HkAySBurdK5jLdivmjyTDrJFTkwZjn6R4aTHUHT7N4iJ2RvS3iY; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Kacheong Poon wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> What do other think? If everyone agrees I will make a >> wording pass for the next version of this... > > > And please also correct the section on sctp_extsndrcvinfo. > > > But of course :-D R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 07:26:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUm8-0003bE-Fb for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:26:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeUm8-0003GI-7y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:26:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:26:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBQ72l019254; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:26:07 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBQ3Gd005249; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:26:03 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBQ2xo028434 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:26:02 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBQ20T028430 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:26:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="413105466:sNHT28257253352" Message-Id: <46275253.3010008@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:28:19 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kacheong Poon CC: Mark Butler , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <4627439F.3080305@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <4627439F.3080305@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 11:25:40.0273 (UTC) FILETIME=[75D07A10:01C78275] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1699; t=1176981967; x=1177845967; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Kacheong=20Poon=20; bh=srx8at9ZNzUH7VXcoVOveHsMxUsl+vqZjZ3cu5f3utE=; b=jdDwKhvnsNnsjuEWVUUh+Gi0b4XJGoVnL1iOBC5nkK2lU2V7n1LVcTky3cIwochfAP/zBWYT ywXQj0UFECANFMboSx1F2kWS6OIhD9oVL4e3im0/PGhzIe6FLDL239dG; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1699; t=1176981945; x=1177845945; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim8002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=srx8at9ZNzUH7VXcoVOveHsMxUsl+vqZjZ3cu5f3utE=; b=Lhp6eXFXqaMwU7M1tJP4AVBsCWY7wW60h3TyAl65GJiPIOz5WXVJXQ5SiU/EpBI84G8w/uX8 P3NN16P5N/QHnmz/JzK0VZBlR1V4ibnJXGiPUAXMA/bfDslWusN2aGTC; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim8002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 So if I hear no objections by tomorrow, I will work on this on the plane going back to Dulles. R Kacheong Poon wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and >> behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that consideration >> be given to having an additional value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE >> option as follows: >> >> 0 - interleave off >> 1 - interleave across different associations only >> 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association >> >> The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are >> backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request >> any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior >> corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > > I think the above suggestion is good. > > >> The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. >> >> The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies application >> programming to know in some cases that you only need to handle one >> message per association at a time, and of course it eliminates the most >> serious inter-association blocking problems. >> >> The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple-stream >> applications to recover from single packet loss stutations more smoothly >> than otherwise - such that in many cases only messages on the affected >> stream(s) are delayed instead of messages on all streams. Plus the >> inter-association benefits of level 1 of course. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kacheong.poon@sun.com Thu Apr 19 07:40:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeV08-0003S5-7S for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:40:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeV07-0002SV-VY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:40:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 07:40:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JBeZI5023084; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:40:35 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JBeBGd009924; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:40:11 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JBd7oj028618 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:39:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JBd7ME028614 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:39:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.24 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPzwJkbAEisYkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53753086:sNHT18285354" Message-Id: <462754B5.6030806@sun.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:38:29 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <8DCA14F7-3AF2-434B-AD3E-A8B6674E1028@micmac.franken.de> <4626362D.9040408@sun.com> <200704182043.33528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4626A16F.2080209@cisco.com> <46272E7B.2080405@sun.com> <46275193.8090106@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46275193.8090106@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Randall Stewart wrote: >> So in the above sequence of >> events, when the app reads M2 and the sctp_extrcvinfo >> shows that the next message is from stream 3, I think >> the socket layer needs to deliver data from stream 3. > > And how will it know that the previous call even > asked to see the ext-rcvinfo? The socket layer does not need to know. The data is in a queue so whatever it is next, the socket layer just returns it. That's why I think sctp_extsndrcvinfo should always be able to return a correct info for the next stream, assoc_id because it is already there in the queue. But a partial message may become complete when the app does the actual read. >> The app will be surprised otherwise. And the socket >> layer does not really need to know what has been >> returned in sctp_extrcvinfo if all data is maintained >> in sequence. It is both natural and easy to do. >> > > But this is exactly what you are advocating > to do.. deliver out-of-order It is not. We are talking about what is being returned in sctp_extrcvinfo should match the next read. It does not matter whether partial delivery is going on or not. > Str-1 is ahead of Str-3 in your socket buffer. > Str-1 had nothing at the last read.. but Str-3 did. > By the time the user cycles back around to read, > Str-1 has data, its the first entry in your socket > buffer.. so you will return it. No. The sequence of event is that the app reads in the partial delivered message M1 from stream 1. In the sctp_extsndrcvinfo which comes with M1, it indicates that the next message is from stream 2. Then when the app does another read to read M2 from streams 2, the sctp_extsndrcvinfo indicates that the next message if from stream 3. Now the rest of M1 comes in, and it will be put in the end of the socket buffer, behind message M3 from stream 3. When the app does the next read, it will get M3, not the rest of M1. > You would have to track additional state.. in order > to know which read to go get next.. overriding > the natural order of the socket buffer.. I don't think it is necessary. > See one of Anders earlier posts about contiguous memory.. In the same message, he wrote down as easy way to solve it :-) I don't think it is complicated. > But I don't think you should be at level 2 unless you explicitly > ask for it. > > I can support the feature only if its an option as Mark proposed > and the default is 0. OK. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From jan.newmarch@gmail.com Thu Apr 19 08:17:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeVZt-0007s8-PH for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:17:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeVZs-0005LW-I4 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:17:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 08:17:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JCHWZw003850; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:17:32 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JCH4lG017400; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:17:04 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JCG25N029205 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:16:02 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JCG2Wg029201 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:16:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to jan.newmarch@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.162.229 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALT5JkZA6aLleGdsb2JhbACQCgEKFQYb X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,425,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53762182:sNHT17584956" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=e8cc0Rj6iXD5mTWoJOEsROgcrdcnM8bfUNuu7JtVx2w5W3GpfLepwa/DW5YhnVtR2gV+r5eWj4YDHLT5nBR39BEl466sRu6UW5ZF6vmXSrvkR65pD420W4nVhUZp+li+M5Y1s16neiAnxsxOtjaNp6JKusQX0C3oBUnolfLTLyg= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=CE1wiflO9o/qz3homw9bq53oh+bxaL+BLJortV2RgrrnzIrq+n8/sFVfXT6PcgPr2wnfOmJYnJSntQD8WF1GQ2FgcdSQKd53ejAulf+t95rh2mbAkNzqplSTkODk4XaWrFKO18RHx1oqUmoi56EfdbfBbCvfc9K0jx5Qo4GH/TA= Message-Id: <579ea40b0704190512g4b41992frb913310253fc792d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:12:54 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS and one-to-one sockets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Hi The Stevens book in Figure 23.13 gives code using sctp_opt_info(... SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS ...) to find the association id directly rather than monitoring association events. I presume this code works under BSD since that seems to have been the author's test environment. But it doesn't work on the one-to-one model under Linux. The spec in 7.1.13 says about the struct sctp_paddrparams: "spp_assoc_id - (one-to-many style socket) This is filled in the application, and identifies the association for this query". But it doesn't say anything about the one-to-one style socket. The Linux code doesn't fill in a value for the association id, but I presume the BSD does. Other parts of the spec say what should happen to the one-to-one model for other calls, so shoud this one too? I would prefer the spec to also say: "For the one-to-one model the value is filled in by the sctp_opt_info call and returned to the user"? Jan -- From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 08:37:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeVsy-0001hb-TV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:37:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeVsy-0007rR-E0 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:37:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 08:37:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JCbFQR003208; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:37:15 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JCahGd001338; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:36:43 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JCaD9V029548 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:36:13 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JCaDs0029544 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 08:36:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.76 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALX+JkbDNmtMk2dsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDgcGHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,426,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="80926754:sNHT33260094" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: One-to-Many vs One-to-One Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:23:54 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704191217.08132.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46274F08.20308@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46274F08.20308@cisco.com> CC: SCTP Implementors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704191423.54775.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a Randall, comments inline: On Thursday 19 April 2007 13:14, you wrote: > Anders: > > Let me change the subject line then :-D > > Anders Torger wrote: > > On Thursday 19 April 2007 10:06, Randall Stewart wrote: > >>> (I prefer one-to-one sockets such that I get flow control per > >>> assocation and can use poll() to check ready-for-writing in a > >>> meaningful way. From my analysis, the only real reason for > >>> one-to-many is to be able to have huge amount of associations > >>> without wasting sockets, and therefore I think that one-to-one > >>> should generally be the preferred way for an application > >>> programmer.) > >> > >> You are also forgetting that: > >> > >> 1) One-to-Many also allows you to send data on the 3rd leg > >> of the handshake. > >> 2) One-to-Many can also free you of any protocol state giving you > >> more of a UDP like feel. > >> > >> Its true if you are going to be sending large messages and filling > >> up your socket send buffers it may not be the right model for > >> you (since you cannot select on write).. but there are ways > >> around this.. and by the way .. at least in BSD .. you get > >> flow-control per association. I don't know how other > >> implementations have been written but BSD works that way no matter > >> if you are one-2-many or one-2-one. > >> > >> So the only thing different is you can't do select on write.. > >> which can be gotten around with threads if you really want that. > > > > I'm wandering a bit off topic here, but anyway... > > > > I guess what you mean by flow control per association in > > one-to-many is flow control enforced by the kernel, but it cannot > > be enforced by the application per association anyway, right? > > The kernel always enforces flow control using the send and recv > buffer as far as the app is concerned. These are translated into an > rwnd to give to a peer... so both SCTP endpoints cooperate using the > rwnd to do flow-control. > > > Either you read from the > > > socket, or you don't read. If I don't want any more data for the > > moment from a particular association, because I want to prioritize > > another one, I stop reading on that one-to-one socket, but continue > > reading on another. > > Ahh.. yes.. For this type of application flow control you can do > that very thing. I had not thought of that aspect... > > Of course there would be nothing stopping a implementation from > also adding the ability to specify which association (or stream > for that matter) to read from.. I have hesitated in doing that in > BSD since this has some drastic consequences after all.. just like > the application not reading from its socket. Since this means you are > sucking up kernel resources to do your flow control. It is far better > IMO, if you need that type of granular control, to have a way to do > this app - 2 -app.. and not eat up all your mbuf/skbuf what ever you > call them... for the app doing flow-control. Sorry, I don't understand the "this app - 2 -app..." part, so I'm not sure what you're saying. Anyway, it seems to me that it makes little sense to provide this possibility for one-to-many sockets. If you only want to read from one association, why not use one-to-one socket? Only if the stack can scale association count much more than the kernel can scale socket count this seems to be reasonable. Specifying which *stream* to read from is broken, since SCTP has no flow control per stream. The idea here is to make the application indirectly control affect the flow control on the protocol level (just as for TCP), not make selective reads from a single association. If you want send data with the association setup, there's the trick to have a one-to-many socket for making association setups, and as soon as it is set up, you do sctp_peeloff() and continue with one-to-one mode. > You can even envision a situation where if you had 20 sockets open > and 19 of them you did not read from.. you could get the 19 * the > rwnd mbufs in.. which stops you from getting things from the 1 you > want... and in such a situation there would be nothing the kernel > could do.. it could not reneg on the data in the 19 sockets because > it already cum-acked it all and sent it up to the application to read > who is refusing to do so. Such a method of flow control is very bad > practice and can lead to disaster .. especially if you are trying to > write a high availability telco app. I spent many many years doing > telco apps and we would never do such a thing.. since the > consequences of it are not pleasant.. :-o In a telco app I never really want to get into flow control anyway since that blocks potentially high priority ULP requests. So for a telco app this is perhaps a bit theoretical... However, it seems from your description above that all sockets share the same buffer space, that is those 19 sockets eat up all buffer space, including that for the remaining? It sounds really strange to me that one socket can eat up buffer space for another socket (and thus reduce its rwnd). Is this the way BSD is implemented? How can multiple bulk transfers using TCP work at all if this is the way, were direct or indirect application flow control is a natural part of the deal? > > On a one-to-many socket, I don't get to choose which association > > that will deliver data to me, which may be important in refined > > overload controls. > > But in such an overload situation you have a disaster waiting > to happen. Oh sure, most of the time it will work.. but if > the overload is big enough, your kernel will run out of > mbufs/skbufs etc... and then your one or two association you want to > read from you will get nothing on.. and the others will hold all > sorts of data you are refusing to read. > > And of course it will only hit you on mothers-day or some other > very very bad situation... the worst actually.. > > Poor design choice IMO.. I'm wondering here if this is due to poor design in the BSD kernel rather than the application ;-). I don't think you can run out of skbufs in Linux in the way you describe (or at least the way I interpret you description), but please correct me if I'm wrong. When kernel fill up its SO_RCVBUF, which is per association, the rwnd will go down to zero, and the peer will send no more data, and if it would do anyway, the kernel would drop the message. So I don't see how it could lead to a disaster. > > This is what I mean with that flow control is lost on a one-to-many > > socket. > > And I see that now.. and I see how I did not even think about this > as well... its because it is IMO such a bad choice.. it is this > same reason that I have not suggested we let the receiver fill > in the assoc-id or the stream number to read specific things > from the socket buffer... its an easy thing to do.. but dangerous > and encourages this type of mis-guided flow control ;-( Association could make some sense, but then use one-to-one instead. Stream number never make sense, since there's no flow control per stream in the protocol. > > On the write side, when I have a message ready for association A > > but not for B, and A is stalled, but not B, that will lead to a > > problem with one-to-many, poll() says ready for writing, and > > sendmsg() says EAGAIN. However, you say one can solve that problem > > with threads, but I don't understand how? > > select and poll are a poor mans thread. It takes a single > threaded application and makes it "multi-threaded". One can easily > setup a worker thread to accept the data and manage getting it > down.. blocking if needed. You can create a "write" thread > per association if you so desired (not that I know I would do > this). The sender thread does a blocking write to that association. > And thus blocks. The other worker thread is still free to write > the data down the other association. > > Of course this requires a bit more work.. I have actually been > thinking on writing such a library for folks though. I have > an MPI app that does non-blocking writes and tends to slam > a machine over and over again... in some situations.. such > a worker thread arrangement would solve two problems, yours > and his :-D Having I/O worker threads is a common design. But if you do blocking I/O, you would want to have one I/O thread per association, and if you have that, you would use one-to-one sockets. But having one thread per association is bad news scalability-wise, so it is better to have a fixed-size pool of I/O threads, which each do poll() and non-blocking I/O. And then in most cases it is shown that it is usually not much idea to have more than one I/O thread (or separate input and output into own threads). Soon we're going to get into POSIX AIO... aio_read(), aio_write()... ;-) /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 09:13:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeWSP-0004zB-Vn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:13:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeWSP-0005h4-CS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:13:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 09:08:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JD8A3T021801; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:08:10 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JD7xGd012394; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:07:59 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JD6irW030064 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:06:44 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JD6ixS030060 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:06:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,426,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="479472382:sNHT73182484" Message-Id: <462769FF.9070000@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:09:19 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: One-to-Many vs One-to-One References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704191217.08132.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46274F08.20308@cisco.com> <200704191423.54775.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704191423.54775.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 13:06:40.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[9235BB30:01C78283] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=13033; t=1176988091; x=1177852091; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=sOZfkQdXVFYqhWXuFMQuJhITWGJFBB3KiKz9NufgPfg=; b=zm1tMr83N/tDukEeI6rH+mxGnWj9BaFzdmrNOnu8msXWr+HbcPFJPLXJ1/CVZ4+kfWl3aFRx +h9EAFnIFeNkpxqVf2wQntczDDfiRD34da0F1pKi0fzQLpgRb5APmwlu; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=13033; t=1176988002; x=1177852002; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20; bh=sOZfkQdXVFYqhWXuFMQuJhITWGJFBB3KiKz9NufgPfg=; b=Nu5z3c0DRJ7AmzIgoXsEMRsRlYNB3+kr/mPm6eaFXOjbRTGQtodK784fmIORykSIKWGkpqr0 +Sz/x1J6Sfmv36SNEGBpr4I30rHe3/skscPTCdMfC2tym/UnnvGgMoyY; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8a4bcf8f67063cac573319207fe3db35 Anders Torger wrote: > Randall, > > comments inline: > > On Thursday 19 April 2007 13:14, you wrote: >> Anders: >> >> Let me change the subject line then :-D >> >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> On Thursday 19 April 2007 10:06, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>> (I prefer one-to-one sockets such that I get flow control per >>>>> assocation and can use poll() to check ready-for-writing in a >>>>> meaningful way. From my analysis, the only real reason for >>>>> one-to-many is to be able to have huge amount of associations >>>>> without wasting sockets, and therefore I think that one-to-one >>>>> should generally be the preferred way for an application >>>>> programmer.) >>>> You are also forgetting that: >>>> >>>> 1) One-to-Many also allows you to send data on the 3rd leg >>>> of the handshake. >>>> 2) One-to-Many can also free you of any protocol state giving you >>>> more of a UDP like feel. >>>> >>>> Its true if you are going to be sending large messages and filling >>>> up your socket send buffers it may not be the right model for >>>> you (since you cannot select on write).. but there are ways >>>> around this.. and by the way .. at least in BSD .. you get >>>> flow-control per association. I don't know how other >>>> implementations have been written but BSD works that way no matter >>>> if you are one-2-many or one-2-one. >>>> >>>> So the only thing different is you can't do select on write.. >>>> which can be gotten around with threads if you really want that. >>> I'm wandering a bit off topic here, but anyway... >>> >>> I guess what you mean by flow control per association in >>> one-to-many is flow control enforced by the kernel, but it cannot >>> be enforced by the application per association anyway, right? >> The kernel always enforces flow control using the send and recv >> buffer as far as the app is concerned. These are translated into an >> rwnd to give to a peer... so both SCTP endpoints cooperate using the >> rwnd to do flow-control. >> >> >> Either you read from the >> >>> socket, or you don't read. If I don't want any more data for the >>> moment from a particular association, because I want to prioritize >>> another one, I stop reading on that one-to-one socket, but continue >>> reading on another. >> Ahh.. yes.. For this type of application flow control you can do >> that very thing. I had not thought of that aspect... >> >> Of course there would be nothing stopping a implementation from >> also adding the ability to specify which association (or stream >> for that matter) to read from.. I have hesitated in doing that in >> BSD since this has some drastic consequences after all.. just like >> the application not reading from its socket. Since this means you are >> sucking up kernel resources to do your flow control. It is far better >> IMO, if you need that type of granular control, to have a way to do >> this app - 2 -app.. and not eat up all your mbuf/skbuf what ever you >> call them... for the app doing flow-control. > > Sorry, I don't understand the "this app - 2 -app..." part, so I'm not > sure what you're saying. > What I am saying is you are best to have the client/server do flow control between themselves.. or peer to peer .. or whatever you application is.. > Anyway, it seems to me that it makes little sense to provide this > possibility for one-to-many sockets. If you only want to read from one > association, why not use one-to-one socket? Only if the stack can scale > association count much more than the kernel can scale socket count this > seems to be reasonable. > > Specifying which *stream* to read from is broken, since SCTP has no flow > control per stream. The idea here is to make the application indirectly > control affect the flow control on the protocol level (just as for > TCP), not make selective reads from a single association. You would be surprised how many times I have had folks ask for it though.. I think the idea is they want to put a thread on each stream reading.. so you don't have a flow control issue really.. but it always bothered me that you could have one stream (or even assoc) not get read from .. > > If you want send data with the association setup, there's the trick to > have a one-to-many socket for making association setups, and as soon as > it is set up, you do sctp_peeloff() and continue with one-to-one mode. true. > >> You can even envision a situation where if you had 20 sockets open >> and 19 of them you did not read from.. you could get the 19 * the >> rwnd mbufs in.. which stops you from getting things from the 1 you >> want... and in such a situation there would be nothing the kernel >> could do.. it could not reneg on the data in the 19 sockets because >> it already cum-acked it all and sent it up to the application to read >> who is refusing to do so. Such a method of flow control is very bad >> practice and can lead to disaster .. especially if you are trying to >> write a high availability telco app. I spent many many years doing >> telco apps and we would never do such a thing.. since the >> consequences of it are not pleasant.. :-o > > In a telco app I never really want to get into flow control anyway since > that blocks potentially high priority ULP requests. So for a telco app > this is perhaps a bit theoretical... of course.. but you still have to allow for it.. thats why SS7 had gapping if I remember the term right... there are other means that have been used as well.. > > However, it seems from your description above that all sockets share the > same buffer space, that is those 19 sockets eat up all buffer space, > including that for the remaining? It sounds really strange to me that > one socket can eat up buffer space for another sock I think this is the way ALL kernels work. Think about what you are doing. You have a limited number of mbufs in BSD, skbufs in linux.. or whatever other O/S's call them. These are special purpose memory that is used to hold data from the network. They are flexible but there is a limited number of these critters.. Its a shared pool that ALL sockets end up drawing from. > > How can multiple bulk transfers using TCP work at all if this is the > way, were direct or indirect application flow control is a natural part > of the deal? Because applications don't stop reading in general. The flow control is to help with small application hickups.. not to be used IMO has the general flow control of all apps. If I look at my BSD system I am typing this on and do netstat -m I see: 256/134/390/25600 mbuf clusters in use (current/cache/total/max) A cluster is what really holds the data.. and not the max. So my machine can have 25,600 2k chunks of data pending into my various TCP and SCTP associations.. yes TCP and SCTP draw on the same pool. In fact a standard ethernet driver, grabs a mbuf/cluster dumps the frame off the wire into it and then kicks it up to IP.. IP sees its either SCTP or TCP or UDP and kicks it to the right one. If you need to reassemble you hold mbufs (or skbufs in linux) to do it. When you deliver to a socket, you give up the skbuf.. or mbuf which is read by the socket read calls and copied out of the mbuf (where it was put by the driver) into the user memory. It gives you efficiency since you are not making multiple copies of the data over and over again. This is what kills performance when you are trying to achieve 1 or 10 Gig ... extra copies.. just ask the iSCSI folks :-D > >>> On a one-to-many socket, I don't get to choose which association >>> that will deliver data to me, which may be important in refined >>> overload controls. >> But in such an overload situation you have a disaster waiting >> to happen. Oh sure, most of the time it will work.. but if >> the overload is big enough, your kernel will run out of >> mbufs/skbufs etc... and then your one or two association you want to >> read from you will get nothing on.. and the others will hold all >> sorts of data you are refusing to read. >> >> And of course it will only hit you on mothers-day or some other >> very very bad situation... the worst actually.. >> >> Poor design choice IMO.. > > I'm wondering here if this is due to poor design in the BSD kernel > rather than the application ;-). No go look at ANY kernel. BSD linux.. any that you can look at the source and you will see this behavior. The poor design choice is the app expecting to use kernel memory to do its buffering because it wants to flow control someone. That is just bad design IMO I don't think you can run out of > skbufs in Linux in the way you describe (or at least the way I > interpret you description), but please correct me if I'm wrong. You are wrong.. you will eventually run out of skbufs. No system has unlimited resources to throw at things.. it does not happen often but when it does it either effects the app or can echo to something far worse. > > When kernel fill up its SO_RCVBUF, which is per association, the rwnd > will go down to zero, and the peer will send no more data, and if it > would do anyway, the kernel would drop the message. So I don't see how > it could lead to a disaster. How many connections are you going to support. A big web server may want 10,000 connections or more. If you give each of them a receive buffer of 64k in the kernel (not an unreasonable number and it probably needs to be much higher to get Gig speed) then you are talking about 625 Megabytes of memory. Now I will grant you we have come a long way in getting memory in your machines, but no one lets that much memory be dedicated to the network. When you get a so buffer reservation it does not reserve the memory for you, its just like the airlines.. your seat can be given up if you don't show up.. > >>> This is what I mean with that flow control is lost on a one-to-many >>> socket. >> And I see that now.. and I see how I did not even think about this >> as well... its because it is IMO such a bad choice.. it is this >> same reason that I have not suggested we let the receiver fill >> in the assoc-id or the stream number to read specific things >> from the socket buffer... its an easy thing to do.. but dangerous >> and encourages this type of mis-guided flow control ;-( > > Association could make some sense, but then use one-to-one instead. > Stream number never make sense, since there's no flow control per > stream in the protocol. Go tell that to all the people that have asked me about it.. as I said they are all thinking multi-threading I am sure.. I have never supported the idea.. but its what folks have asked for :-D > >>> On the write side, when I have a message ready for association A >>> but not for B, and A is stalled, but not B, that will lead to a >>> problem with one-to-many, poll() says ready for writing, and >>> sendmsg() says EAGAIN. However, you say one can solve that problem >>> with threads, but I don't understand how? >> select and poll are a poor mans thread. It takes a single >> threaded application and makes it "multi-threaded". One can easily >> setup a worker thread to accept the data and manage getting it >> down.. blocking if needed. You can create a "write" thread >> per association if you so desired (not that I know I would do >> this). The sender thread does a blocking write to that association. >> And thus blocks. The other worker thread is still free to write >> the data down the other association. >> >> Of course this requires a bit more work.. I have actually been >> thinking on writing such a library for folks though. I have >> an MPI app that does non-blocking writes and tends to slam >> a machine over and over again... in some situations.. such >> a worker thread arrangement would solve two problems, yours >> and his :-D > > Having I/O worker threads is a common design. But if you do blocking > I/O, you would want to have one I/O thread per association, and if you > have that, you would use one-to-one sockets. Maybe in app space, but not necessarily in kernel space.. But having one thread per > association is bad news scalability-wise, so it is better to have a > fixed-size pool of I/O threads, which each do poll() and non-blocking > I/O. And then in most cases it is shown that it is usually not much > idea to have more than one I/O thread (or separate input and output > into own threads). So are you saying there are limits on threads too? Just like mbufs or skbufs? I agree.. but I don't expect a 1 to many socket to have 10,000 assoc's under it either :-D > > Soon we're going to get into POSIX AIO... aio_read(), aio_write()... ;-) won't that be fun :-D R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 10:05:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXGI-0006fk-7u for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:05:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXGH-0006cv-WE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:05:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 10:05:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JE5ORo017018; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:05:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JE57lG015544; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:05:08 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JE4B1M030968 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:11 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JE4BDA030964 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAKwTJ0bDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,427,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53789484:sNHT24407397" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: One-to-Many vs One-to-One Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:51:52 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704191423.54775.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462769FF.9070000@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462769FF.9070000@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704191551.52306.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c On Thursday 19 April 2007 15:09, Randall Stewart wrote: > > However, it seems from your description above that all sockets > > share the same buffer space, that is those 19 sockets eat up all > > buffer space, including that for the remaining? It sounds really > > strange to me that one socket can eat up buffer space for another > > sock > > I think this is the way ALL kernels work. Think about what > you are doing. You have a limited number of mbufs in BSD, skbufs in > linux.. or whatever other O/S's call them. These are special purpose > memory that is used to hold data from the network. They are flexible > but there is a limited number of these critters.. Yes, I understand, but I thought the overcommitting idea was only a BSD thing... I have experienced running out of mbufs on FreeBSD, but never run out of skbufs in Linux. But I really don't know much of the implementation, it's just my experience. Perhaps I've been nicer to my precious Linux machines. I shall investigate in detail how this work in Linux and Solaris. Overcommitting kernel buffers in a carrier grade system sounds like a rather bad idea to me. But as you say, 10000 sockets will eat up a lot of rarely used RAM if overcommitting is not allowed. Thank you for pointing this out to me. > Maybe in app space, but not necessarily in kernel space.. > > But having one thread per > > > association is bad news scalability-wise, so it is better to have a > > fixed-size pool of I/O threads, which each do poll() and > > non-blocking I/O. And then in most cases it is shown that it is > > usually not much idea to have more than one I/O thread (or separate > > input and output into own threads). > > So are you saying there are limits on threads too? Just like mbufs or > skbufs? > > I agree.. but I don't expect a 1 to many socket to have 10,000 > assoc's under it either :-D I'm saying that having threads per session, threads per socket, threads per X is a bad idea in general. What happens is that if you increase load on that system in a way such that more threads are created, the performance will degenerate and eventually there'll be some sort of trashing, one will do more work switching threads than doing actual work. In a carrier grade application server the number of threads should be moderate and static. /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 10:05:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXGO-0006iV-77 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:05:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXGN-0006dJ-Ri for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:05:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 10:05:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JE5Ujd017062; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:05:30 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JE54lG015525; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:05:04 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JE4L2p030981 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:21 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JE4LGL030977 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:04:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,427,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="137724225:sNHT50817474" Message-Id: <4627776B.1050905@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:06:35 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: One-to-Many vs One-to-One References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704191423.54775.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462769FF.9070000@cisco.com> <200704191551.52306.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704191551.52306.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 14:03:56.0532 (UTC) FILETIME=[92069B40:01C7828B] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4286; t=1176991531; x=1177855531; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=E4INOcL6oGz2GO8TFvRHyfUG/+i2jb9lAko6jrWiIds=; b=vVBN6ecSQzz9Xl/xSzAikKOMTV7PcRc0VcJXCGUjPse9sP/83qGKdrb3mGcktUuYAFY9nJzj K2Ec0Gqu5Tj+ZBd/D74BmmGvdzjAyt3z3jaaBsOdVUS5maUXOGU1Jg7C; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4286; t=1176991459; x=1177855459; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20; bh=E4INOcL6oGz2GO8TFvRHyfUG/+i2jb9lAko6jrWiIds=; b=pF+NAYk697AB60nSMQ6AyLCE/ln+Jx03NfPtaNdWJhhrVqEwUIDWDQB7HV1pdv2IrBZxj+hD HcbF4f8Opm88EEDTp6c45uYoHjb/AQHBPFo3mG3XA/HdT1E2X++heuIT; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Anders Torger wrote: > On Thursday 19 April 2007 15:09, Randall Stewart wrote: >>> However, it seems from your description above that all sockets >>> share the same buffer space, that is those 19 sockets eat up all >>> buffer space, including that for the remaining? It sounds really >>> strange to me that one socket can eat up buffer space for another >>> sock >> I think this is the way ALL kernels work. Think about what >> you are doing. You have a limited number of mbufs in BSD, skbufs in >> linux.. or whatever other O/S's call them. These are special purpose >> memory that is used to hold data from the network. They are flexible >> but there is a limited number of these critters.. > > Yes, I understand, but I thought the overcommitting idea was only a BSD > thing... I have experienced running out of mbufs on FreeBSD, but never > run out of skbufs in Linux. But I really don't know much of the > implementation, it's just my experience. Perhaps I've been nicer to my > precious Linux machines. Or perhaps the defaults are much higher as the limit. These have raised in BSD lately I think.. you used to configure them in the kernel... now they are done as a percentage of memory I think.. this is probably what linux has been doing as well... which means if you have a lot of memory you are LESS likely to see the problem. Also remember that most apps don't use the kernel in this way. A web server writes to his clients.. until he gets all the data sent. The receiver reads and display's it as fast as possible to give a user a "good feeling" on how the web pictures are downloading. None of them stop and do flow control by not reading.. the flow control the kernel provides IMO is more designed for when the web app is taking a bit more to render a picture... this gives a temporary buffer for it to get the jpg displayed (or whatever) and get back and read more... > > I shall investigate in detail how this work in Linux and Solaris. > Overcommitting kernel buffers in a carrier grade system sounds like a > rather bad idea to me. But as you say, 10000 sockets will eat up a lot > of rarely used RAM if overcommitting is not allowed. I don't think ANY system I have ever looked at (and I have looked at a lot of kernel source code) does not do over-committing. Its a sound principle as long as apps don't start designing all there flow control in by making the kernel hold all their data. > > Thank you for pointing this out to me. No problem ;-D Its an interesting discussion.. as these things normally are... > >> Maybe in app space, but not necessarily in kernel space.. >> >> But having one thread per >> >>> association is bad news scalability-wise, so it is better to have a >>> fixed-size pool of I/O threads, which each do poll() and >>> non-blocking I/O. And then in most cases it is shown that it is >>> usually not much idea to have more than one I/O thread (or separate >>> input and output into own threads). >> So are you saying there are limits on threads too? Just like mbufs or >> skbufs? >> >> I agree.. but I don't expect a 1 to many socket to have 10,000 >> assoc's under it either :-D > > I'm saying that having threads per session, threads per socket, threads > per X is a bad idea in general. What happens is that if you increase > load on that system in a way such that more threads are created, the > performance will degenerate and eventually there'll be some sort of > trashing, one will do more work switching threads than doing actual > work. In a carrier grade application server the number of threads > should be moderate and static. Maybe.. depends on the types of threads actually being used.. and how much it costs to context switch threads vs proc's and a whole host of other things. Often times with a threaded model you can avoid the overhead of a process context switch... which is usually ( but not always) more expensive. A select/poll always gives you a context switch... of course often times recv/send will do the same .. but it depends on how the threading model has been built into the kernel of course :-D R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From zjeieexaw@gdl1.uninet.net.mx Thu Apr 19 10:36:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXkh-00050Q-Py; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:36:51 -0400 Received: from ppp-124.120.155.61.revip2.asianet.co.th ([124.120.155.61] helo=gdl1.uninet.net.mx) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXkf-0003hv-Bj; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:36:51 -0400 Received: from asx121.turbo-inline.com ([37.42.249.201]) by public.micromail.com.au with ASMTP; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:23:39 -0300 Received: from mxs.perenter.com ([85.189.144.176]) by smtp.mixedthings.net with NNFMP; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:21:22 -0300 Received: from unknown (HELO group21.345mail.com) (Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:17:27 -0300) by mtu67.syds.piswix.net with ASMTP; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:17:27 -0300 Message-ID: <5007EAB6.68C41D26@gdl1.uninet.net.mx> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:03:45 -0300 From: "Nick" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: , , , , , , , , , , , Subject: Re: P.ossi.ble .meet.ing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Hi theare lovely, I was searching the net faew days ago. 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Reply to my personal email at lagqy@BounceEmail.info From peterlei@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 11:16:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYNW-0004E5-W5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:16:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYNW-0005Jn-Jd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:16:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 11:16:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JFGun1021485; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:16:56 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JFGEGd019727; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:16:14 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JFERfe032127 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:14:27 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JFERu2032123 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:14:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to peterlei@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,428,1170651600"; d="p7s'?scan'208"; a="58079113:sNHT81577860" Message-Id: <46278765.7060509@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:14:45 -0500 From: "Peter Lei (peterlei)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020205060600040404060102" X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 15:14:14.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[6463AB60:01C78295] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7697; t=1176995816; x=1177859816; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=peterlei@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Peter=20Lei=20(peterlei)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=tWXASpFe6Ld0Ck+xaf/mmuRvFdF/8i17BhSZ2eOBR9k=; b=yUl9TAjoqJT9ytJtdRsAJCMMtyPcVvpjz7Ki27fnEWvD32uYBkrnwhsy1176xAgTF6uX1Jr4 7jloJhz+UU0ph3enh6nG21eva9XrKngH/8LOyorBN3uQuw2OnsuP0n9q; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7697; t=1176995665; x=1177859665; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=peterlei@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Peter=20Lei=20(peterlei)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=tWXASpFe6Ld0Ck+xaf/mmuRvFdF/8i17BhSZ2eOBR9k=; b=nUsDzBsi/4DeFY4JeeKgEmoTNXWAzkcVgrubzHV0HLvo7kUujPvkHJ804uZ9EEOWs4t12IoH Kap9vkz4QpNmIVGdhdyp8XPNp8VDHEjCfqT2xsv/5nz6T9DFsojtIT/y; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=peterlei@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=peterlei@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 42e3ed3f10a1d8bef690f09da16f507a This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020205060600040404060102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Butler wrote: > Hello all, > > Comments inline. > >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>> >>>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>>> should work. >>>> >>>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not clear >>>> on which one it should be: >>>> >>>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>>> interleaved. >>>> >>>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>>> partial >>>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>> > > I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, you > are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at all. That > is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to serious stalling > problems on a 1:M socket. > > Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option > doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different streams on > the same association, it seems to me that a neutral reading of the draft > is that by default you typically get behavior (C) - no interleaving, and > when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned on you get behavior (A). > > However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and > behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that consideration > be given to having an additional value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE > option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association > > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request > any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior > corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. > > The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies application > programming to know in some cases that you only need to handle one > message per association at a time, and of course it eliminates the most > serious inter-association blocking problems. > > The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple-stream > applications to recover from single packet loss stutations more smoothly > than otherwise - such that in many cases only messages on the affected > stream(s) are delayed instead of messages on all streams. Plus the > inter-association benefits of level 1 of course. I like this proposal: it allows an app to explicitly specifying what behavior an application desires/expects, and the default case being all interleave off. Depending on what HOL blocking I care about, I can move up the level. thanks, --peter > - Mark B. --------------ms020205060600040404060102 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJBzCC At4wggJHoAMCAQICEEzYViMR60/oRy3MiyZad9cwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA2MDQyNjIyMDEwNFoX DTA3MDQyNjIyMDEwNFowRDEfMB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEhMB8G CSqGSIb3DQEJARYScGV0ZXJsZWlAY2lzY28uY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A MIIBCgKCAQEA5FHyv5HjGa0WeITVYMmBK0tCmp1zYGN18JZUzHGy8SU0KE7VyVh5D+bM4eMF PL46WXZRhIqKcqcoj+Iy5qQA7pel+Eale8iaaWtUHl3LExAla8ERisHnPpTqsWkIBQ5vsYsA tqEf8KrsdlIRjx9d9IxgMiS3hR+MeBsTbHRkFZvSaVJEpxuMNoBL6MqZelSFNyIsQB9J4Kea k2+PLSQzEujTEAXxyBUX7nClqDiGu8KI54shztJABOr/Msl/kGU/CqMwUqnkRcGheIMY7ley zxwxZHDAwa9pXNDO75G628KdpMFWDY36uQR8bJlqQRBY0uSl/hjee+5/aQpC4CAK2wIDAQAB oy8wLTAdBgNVHREEFjAUgRJwZXRlcmxlaUBjaXNjby5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQQFAAOBgQA1yiOUnYGik5nwjxeouLXrumH/udS8wvguvpydbCU78g4XeJzMHfWc KuVToMDLYqbqRM6Z1pzaXnvRoohKKN1p3RX8W+Q2VwgHg5b5kobJCtQSLX9u3CVhPUWaJ69i QbBfTj0HaqPaUQp43Pzk2HmLIM/41vZRm40NhsSWMb0c6zCCAt4wggJHoAMCAQICEEzYViMR 60/oRy3MiyZad9cwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRo YXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBG cmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA2MDQyNjIyMDEwNFoXDTA3MDQyNjIyMDEwNFowRDEf MB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYScGV0ZXJs ZWlAY2lzY28uY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA5FHyv5HjGa0W eITVYMmBK0tCmp1zYGN18JZUzHGy8SU0KE7VyVh5D+bM4eMFPL46WXZRhIqKcqcoj+Iy5qQA 7pel+Eale8iaaWtUHl3LExAla8ERisHnPpTqsWkIBQ5vsYsAtqEf8KrsdlIRjx9d9IxgMiS3 hR+MeBsTbHRkFZvSaVJEpxuMNoBL6MqZelSFNyIsQB9J4Keak2+PLSQzEujTEAXxyBUX7nCl qDiGu8KI54shztJABOr/Msl/kGU/CqMwUqnkRcGheIMY7leyzxwxZHDAwa9pXNDO75G628Kd pMFWDY36uQR8bJlqQRBY0uSl/hjee+5/aQpC4CAK2wIDAQABoy8wLTAdBgNVHREEFjAUgRJw ZXRlcmxlaUBjaXNjby5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFAAOBgQA1yiOU nYGik5nwjxeouLXrumH/udS8wvguvpydbCU78g4XeJzMHfWcKuVToMDLYqbqRM6Z1pzaXnvR oohKKN1p3RX8W+Q2VwgHg5b5kobJCtQSLX9u3CVhPUWaJ69iQbBfTj0HaqPaUQp43Pzk2HmL IM/41vZRm40NhsSWMb0c6zCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEa MBgGA1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2Vy dmljZXMgRGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTEr MCkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcw MDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUg Q29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1h aWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065ypla HmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FW y688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEE QB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2 oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3Js MAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgGA1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0x MzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcPf6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYf qi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9l X5Xa9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8xggNkMIIDYAIBATB2 MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQu MSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQTNhWIxHr T+hHLcyLJlp31zAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBwzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwG CSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNzA0MTkxNTE0NDVaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRG/AiXxmQvlxPJ pFahXkEcWtzC5zBSBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIA gDANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAE MXgwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkg THRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEEzY ViMR60/oRy3MiyZad9cwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMG A1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBl cnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEEzYViMR60/oRy3MiyZad9cwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQAEggEAIiJJXTxFyG50TT2p4pi/knVOGho4gcxnDkz/DHemenIPLu6ncJjcdO+JpzLD UA60X65mqyhfFCOlMDSuiPhGGUOMoZruX3fGbl2iw/jTo1WYgpRmFQWcfUciVS6754klZ2Q/ QwBTdDcrvfvOR/e6JXAKWyGHrQZJ2sSjGABF8sywRaa/kbDmhNmmhHbAPRFlD/ufE0YW8Syv VLNNMTWq3gOEUm1mZNTAJyxXfVy2HSkDbxM13IxP1RADD0gV+5kAifnYvBnT0o9Yx+gYGQSR ry1ZN80UWJ/xWXTbDRw4tNFnbL7Vr5jbkemWlptcrCtuBKXcomI+Fyn87ZO3XoBBrwAAAAAA AA== --------------ms020205060600040404060102-- From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Thu Apr 19 11:30:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYaD-0002mI-9S for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:30:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYaB-0000ow-12 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:30:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 11:30:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JFU0iN002742; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:30:00 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JFTZlG010671; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:29:35 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JFTE2k032365 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:29:14 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JFTEN3032358 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:29:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.214 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJknJ0acmf/WoWdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,428,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53813452:sNHT18587061" Message-Id: <46278A3B.9020502@hp.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:26:51 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Mark Butler wrote: > > I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, you > are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at all. That > is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to serious stalling > problems on a 1:M socket. > > Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option > doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different streams on > the same association, it seems to me that a neutral reading of the draft > is that by default you typically get behavior (C) - no interleaving, and > when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned on you get behavior (A). > > However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and > behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that consideration > be given to having an additional value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE > option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association > > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request > any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior > corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. > > The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies application > programming to know in some cases that you only need to handle one > message per association at a time, and of course it eliminates the most > serious inter-association blocking problems. > > The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple-stream > applications to recover from single packet loss stutations more smoothly > than otherwise - such that in many cases only messages on the affected > stream(s) are delayed instead of messages on all streams. Plus the > inter-association benefits of level 1 of course. > This is a good way forward. I like this proposal. -vlad From gobbo.max@libero.it Thu Apr 19 11:45:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYoh-0002EH-6g for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYog-0005Fp-06 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 11:45:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JFj1sU009255; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JFiqGd027702; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:44:52 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JFiNi6032651 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:44:23 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JFiNrK032647 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:44:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to gobbo.max@libero.it using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 212.52.84.42 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABwrJ0bUNFQqhmdsb2JhbACOaYEhAQEBCA4HBhYF X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,428,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="53818047:sNHT15924024" X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:34:46 +0200 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "gobbo\.max\@libero\.it" To: "sctp-impl" X-Xam3-Api-Version: 4.3 (R1) (B3pl19) X-Senderip: 82.189.181.2 Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=gobbo.max@libero.it; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3JFiLqi032643 Subject: X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed unsubscribe sctp-impl gobbo.max@libero.it ------------------------------------------------------ Passa a Infostrada. ADSL e Telefono senza limiti e senza canone Telecom http://click.libero.it/infostrada From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 11:45:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYok-0002Ea-9d for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYoj-0005G5-Qd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 11:45:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JFj5gE009368; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:05 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JFj1lG014731; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:45:01 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JFiV7H032660 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:44:31 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JFiVZx032656 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:44:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAD0rJ0bDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,428,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81012067:sNHT35076186252" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: One-to-Many vs One-to-One Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:32:38 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704191551.52306.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4627776B.1050905@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4627776B.1050905@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704191732.38610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ded6070f7eed56e10c4f4d0d5043d9c7 Randall, I've been unclear in my reasoning. The question here is not about letting the kernel do the buffering for you. One should always read as soon as possible, I don't want to suggest anything else although I may have done so in my babbling about flow control. So I agree with you totally that it is bad design. The question on the receive side is actually about priority. During overload, in this case meaning that we get more incoming data than we can read, I want to have the possibility to prioritize associations differently. That is, I may have a high priority client that I want to always treat first. Thus I choose to read from that socket, and I can if I want to even have strict priority (although that is probably a bad idea), because as soon as there is no data on that socket, I will read from any other socket with data available. This means that the rate we return mbufs/skbufs to the kernel will be equal, even though we don't read from some of the sockets. So there's nothing wrong with the design here. That is, the example with 20 sockets and not reading from 19 of them, this only happens when we are so heavily overloaded that we only have time to read from the high prio socket, and there's always data on it. Having a round-robin dispatching or use a one-to-many socket would not change anything, we would still consume kernel buffers at the same rate. So, with one-to-one sockets, I can do prioritization between associations in overload situations, and favour it concerning response time in normal but bursty situations. This is not possible with one-to-many sockets. Oh, well, it is, since one will have a queue where read-out messages are put before being parsed, but using one-to-one the hidden scheduling artifacts is moved farther out. I'm the first to confess that the value of this prioritization is not that easy to quantify, and probably is rather limited. So I am not claiming this is a strong argument in favour of one-to-one sockets. What actually is the main reason why I favour one-to-one sockets is not this priority thing on the receive side, but on the sending side, to make my application robust against stalls at the peers. Say my app is a server which has 2 peers connected with long-lived assocations. Then I want to send data to only one of them as urgently as possible. But that peer happens to be stalled, and has rwnd down at zero. However, the other one is not. In this situation I want to wait until rwnd increases at the stalled peer, and then send. With a one-to-one socket, I simply put it into poll(), and wait until poll() says its ready for writing. With a one-to-many socket on the other hand, I'm doomed ;-). Well, the strategy with one-to-many would be to assume that stalling peers is not common (probably true), and if that would happen, one either makes a sleep/retry-polling loop, or peels it off to a one-to-one socket. Peeling off to a one-to-one socket for that case only really makes sense if it is possible to put it back to the one-to-many socket again when there is no stall any longer, but there's no API function for that. It also makes sense if we peel it off just to send an error message and then close the connection (for example if we say stalled peer is an error condition, but it is probably too aggressive to peel off and close at the first EAGAIN). But having some connections on one-to-one and others on one-to-many doing the same processing does not make sense. The sleep/retry-polling loop would work, but will introduce some latency, unless we do away with the sleep and do busy wait, but that is not very attractive. Thus, this is the main reason I recommend using one-to-one sockets. I can change my mind though, but I haven't come up with any strong arguments for one-to-many, except possibly for short-lived associations. But then again, I come mainly from a TCP world, not UDP. And if I was a UDP programmer to begin with (more common in telco I guess), I guess I could favour one-to-many because it is more similar to UDP. /Anders Torger On Thursday 19 April 2007 16:06, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > On Thursday 19 April 2007 15:09, Randall Stewart wrote: > >>> However, it seems from your description above that all sockets > >>> share the same buffer space, that is those 19 sockets eat up all > >>> buffer space, including that for the remaining? It sounds really > >>> strange to me that one socket can eat up buffer space for another > >>> sock > >> > >> I think this is the way ALL kernels work. Think about what > >> you are doing. You have a limited number of mbufs in BSD, skbufs > >> in linux.. or whatever other O/S's call them. These are special > >> purpose memory that is used to hold data from the network. They > >> are flexible but there is a limited number of these critters.. > > > > Yes, I understand, but I thought the overcommitting idea was only a > > BSD thing... I have experienced running out of mbufs on FreeBSD, > > but never run out of skbufs in Linux. But I really don't know much > > of the implementation, it's just my experience. Perhaps I've been > > nicer to my precious Linux machines. > > Or perhaps the defaults are much higher as the limit. These > have raised in BSD lately I think.. you used to configure > them in the kernel... now they are done as a percentage > of memory I think.. this is probably what linux has been > doing as well... which means if you have a lot of memory > you are LESS likely to see the problem. > > Also remember that most apps don't use the kernel in this > way. > > A web server writes to his clients.. until he gets > all the data sent. > > The receiver reads and display's it as fast as possible > to give a user a "good feeling" on how the web pictures > are downloading. None of them stop and do flow control by > not reading.. the flow control the kernel provides IMO is more > designed for when the web app is taking a bit more to > render a picture... this gives a temporary buffer for it > to get the jpg displayed (or whatever) and get back and > read more... > > > I shall investigate in detail how this work in Linux and Solaris. > > Overcommitting kernel buffers in a carrier grade system sounds like > > a rather bad idea to me. But as you say, 10000 sockets will eat up > > a lot of rarely used RAM if overcommitting is not allowed. > > I don't think ANY system I have ever looked at (and I have looked > at a lot of kernel source code) does not do over-committing. Its > a sound principle as long as apps don't start designing all there > flow control in by making the kernel hold all their data. > > > Thank you for pointing this out to me. > > No problem ;-D Its an interesting discussion.. as these > things normally are... > > >> Maybe in app space, but not necessarily in kernel space.. > >> > >> But having one thread per > >> > >>> association is bad news scalability-wise, so it is better to have > >>> a fixed-size pool of I/O threads, which each do poll() and > >>> non-blocking I/O. And then in most cases it is shown that it is > >>> usually not much idea to have more than one I/O thread (or > >>> separate input and output into own threads). > >> > >> So are you saying there are limits on threads too? Just like mbufs > >> or skbufs? > >> > >> I agree.. but I don't expect a 1 to many socket to have 10,000 > >> assoc's under it either :-D > > > > I'm saying that having threads per session, threads per socket, > > threads per X is a bad idea in general. What happens is that if you > > increase load on that system in a way such that more threads are > > created, the performance will degenerate and eventually there'll be > > some sort of trashing, one will do more work switching threads than > > doing actual work. In a carrier grade application server the number > > of threads should be moderate and static. > > Maybe.. depends on the types of threads actually being used.. and > how much it costs to context switch threads vs proc's and a > whole host of other things. Often times with a threaded model you > can avoid the overhead of a process context switch... which is > usually ( but not always) more expensive. A select/poll always > gives you a context switch... of course often times recv/send will > do the same .. but it depends on how the threading model has been > built into the kernel of course :-D > > R From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 19 11:48:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYre-0005Jx-0M for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:48:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYrc-000606-Nj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:48:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 11:48:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JFm4o2003706; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:48:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JFlwGd028709; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:47:58 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JFljek032729 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:47:45 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JFljpa032725 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:47:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAEgsJ0bDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,428,1170662400"; d="scan'208,223"; a="81013994:sNHT131096916" From: Anders Torger To: Mark Butler Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:36:03 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704191736.03754.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3JFlhns032718 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 From my point of view, this seems to be a very sensible approach. It should also be made clear that option 2 is applicable to one-to-one sockets. That is, one-to-many either 0, 1, or 2, and for one-to-one, 0 or 2. The default being 0 for both types. /Anders On Thursday 19 April 2007 07:33, Mark Butler wrote: > Hello all, > > Comments inline. > > >> Anders Torger wrote: > >>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() > >>> should work. > >>> > >>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not > >>> clear on which one it should be: > >>> > >>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be > >>> interleaved. > >>> > >>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or > >>> partial > >>> deliveries with no restrictions. > > I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, > you are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at > all. That is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to > serious stalling problems on a 1:M socket. > > Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option > doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different streams > on the same association, it seems to me that a neutral reading of the > draft is that by default you typically get behavior (C) - no > interleaving, and when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned on you get > behavior (A). > > However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and > behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that > consideration be given to having an additional value for the > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same > association > > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request > any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior > corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. > > The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies > application programming to know in some cases that you only need to > handle one message per association at a time, and of course it > eliminates the most serious inter-association blocking problems. > > The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows > multiple-stream applications to recover from single packet loss > stutations more smoothly than otherwise - such that in many cases > only messages on the affected stream(s) are delayed instead of > messages on all streams. Plus the inter-association benefits of level > 1 of course. > > - Mark B. From gobbo.max@libero.it Thu Apr 19 11:51:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYua-00022f-AC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:51:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYuZ-0006xs-2i for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:51:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 11:51:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JFp6HF012424; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:51:06 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JFoplG016389; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:50:51 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JFoUAt000313 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:50:30 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JFoULa000309 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:50:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to gobbo.max@libero.it using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 212.52.84.42 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAEgsJ0bUNFQqjWdsb2JhbACQCgEBAQEHCAYHBhs X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,428,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81015526:sNHT27884889" X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:40:53 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "gobbo\.max\@libero\.it" To: "sctp-impl" X-Xam3-Api-Version: 4.3 (R1) (B3pl19) X-Senderip: 82.189.181.2 Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=gobbo.max@libero.it; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3JFoSti000306 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed ------------------------------------------------------ Passa a Infostrada. ADSL e Telefono senza limiti e senza canone Telecom http://click.libero.it/infostrada From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 18:31:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hef9x-0001o0-9r for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:31:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hef9w-0000x8-OS for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:31:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 18:31:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JMVNW2026233; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:31:23 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JMUBGd017314; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:30:11 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JMRFua007241 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:27:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JMRFlk007237 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:27:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,429,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="413413988:sNHT67372044" Message-Id: <4627ED5D.6060803@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:29:49 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: One-to-Many vs One-to-One References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704191551.52306.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4627776B.1050905@cisco.com> <200704191732.38610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704191732.38610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 22:27:10.0570 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF132CA0:01C782D1] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=9914; t=1177021884; x=1177885884; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=JgcMK/dPp6m/psk9rNb+MSCcDmuPGN9fwcjgAM4QEeo=; b=PWXquvKoE/RVL/cvQyFVTy6qbD1mTtm7erSsTUjMxGbpiIoB9dzYrGGEg8ABME+vtFNpk7kO GAF56Oo3AHZxgrTNGJD+vL3x78mXProYVQxTTjY8A8YMHv0rX7qRbSHV; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=9914; t=1177021633; x=1177885633; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20One-to-Many=20vs=20One-to-One |Sender:=20; bh=JgcMK/dPp6m/psk9rNb+MSCcDmuPGN9fwcjgAM4QEeo=; b=Ri+v2AbEbLSocamdTykqaJPP+boLRqWrnDmK3G7u1NGPCr8+pUioNRgIWhD0G41mFSL5Q1yE KnABX79mwvJ4ohk7w/EMbkIUZjoS1qubGH90uj3X70gyDsWh4GN8BABz; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a069a8e8835d39ce36e425c148267a7b Anders Torger wrote: > Randall, > > I've been unclear in my reasoning. The question here is not about > letting the kernel do the buffering for you. One should always read as > soon as possible, I don't want to suggest anything else although I may > have done so in my babbling about flow control. So I agree with you > totally that it is bad design. > > The question on the receive side is actually about priority. > > During overload, in this case meaning that we get more incoming data > than we can read, I want to have the possibility to prioritize > associations differently. > > That is, I may have a high priority client that I want to always treat > first. Thus I choose to read from that socket, and I can if I want to > even have strict priority (although that is probably a bad idea), > because as soon as there is no data on that socket, I will read from > any other socket with data available. > > This means that the rate we return mbufs/skbufs to the kernel will be > equal, even though we don't read from some of the sockets. So there's > nothing wrong with the design here. > > That is, the example with 20 sockets and not reading from 19 of them, > this only happens when we are so heavily overloaded that we only have > time to read from the high prio socket, and there's always data on it. > Having a round-robin dispatching or use a one-to-many socket would not > change anything, we would still consume kernel buffers at the same > rate. > > So, with one-to-one sockets, I can do prioritization between > associations in overload situations, and favour it concerning response > time in normal but bursty situations. This is not possible with > one-to-many sockets. Oh, well, it is, since one will have a queue where > read-out messages are put before being parsed, but using one-to-one the > hidden scheduling artifacts is moved farther out. > > I'm the first to confess that the value of this prioritization is not > that easy to quantify, and probably is rather limited. > > So I am not claiming this is a strong argument in favour of one-to-one > sockets. Ok I understand a bit better.. > > What actually is the main reason why I favour one-to-one sockets is not > this priority thing on the receive side, but on the sending side, to > make my application robust against stalls at the peers. > > Say my app is a server which has 2 peers connected with long-lived > assocations. > > Then I want to send data to only one of them as urgently as possible. > But that peer happens to be stalled, and has rwnd down at zero. > However, the other one is not. > > In this situation I want to wait until rwnd increases at the stalled > peer, and then send. With a one-to-one socket, I simply put it into > poll(), and wait until poll() says its ready for writing. > > With a one-to-many socket on the other hand, I'm doomed ;-). I don't think I can remember using select/poll on write more than the fingers on my right hand times in my to many years of writing code.. I understand why one would want this.. but on the other hand I don't see it as that valuable.. > > Well, the strategy with one-to-many would be to assume that stalling > peers is not common (probably true), and if that would happen, one > either makes a sleep/retry-polling loop, or peels it off to a > one-to-one socket. Yes.. and one could peel-off (thats one of the reasons peel-off exists) and also one could start an explict thread to deal with the one association (a blocking write to it) and go back to doing the sending and reading with the other thread.. There is always more than one way to skin a cat :-D > > Peeling off to a one-to-one socket for that case only really makes sense > if it is possible to put it back to the one-to-many socket again when > there is no stall any longer, but there's no API function for that. I believe we discussed it but had no demand for it :-D Also it might be quite messy to do.. then again maybe not :-o It > also makes sense if we peel it off just to send an error message and > then close the connection (for example if we say stalled peer is an > error condition, but it is probably too aggressive to peel off and > close at the first EAGAIN). But having some connections on one-to-one > and others on one-to-many doing the same processing does not make > sense. > > The sleep/retry-polling loop would work, but will introduce some > latency, unless we do away with the sleep and do busy wait, but that is > not very attractive. Nope.. a busy wait is bad.. you are better to make the assoc blocking (since you must be non-blocking) have a thread do a blocking write and then make the socket non-blocking.. The one thread will block with the send and at completion of its write exit. > > Thus, this is the main reason I recommend using one-to-one sockets. I > can change my mind though, but I haven't come up with any strong > arguments for one-to-many, except possibly for short-lived > associations. But then again, I come mainly from a TCP world, not UDP. Which I had guessed ;-D > And if I was a UDP programmer to begin with (more common in telco I > guess), I guess I could favour one-to-many because it is more similar > to UDP. Yep.. R > > /Anders Torger > > On Thursday 19 April 2007 16:06, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> On Thursday 19 April 2007 15:09, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>>> However, it seems from your description above that all sockets >>>>> share the same buffer space, that is those 19 sockets eat up all >>>>> buffer space, including that for the remaining? It sounds really >>>>> strange to me that one socket can eat up buffer space for another >>>>> sock >>>> I think this is the way ALL kernels work. Think about what >>>> you are doing. You have a limited number of mbufs in BSD, skbufs >>>> in linux.. or whatever other O/S's call them. These are special >>>> purpose memory that is used to hold data from the network. They >>>> are flexible but there is a limited number of these critters.. >>> Yes, I understand, but I thought the overcommitting idea was only a >>> BSD thing... I have experienced running out of mbufs on FreeBSD, >>> but never run out of skbufs in Linux. But I really don't know much >>> of the implementation, it's just my experience. Perhaps I've been >>> nicer to my precious Linux machines. >> Or perhaps the defaults are much higher as the limit. These >> have raised in BSD lately I think.. you used to configure >> them in the kernel... now they are done as a percentage >> of memory I think.. this is probably what linux has been >> doing as well... which means if you have a lot of memory >> you are LESS likely to see the problem. >> >> Also remember that most apps don't use the kernel in this >> way. >> >> A web server writes to his clients.. until he gets >> all the data sent. >> >> The receiver reads and display's it as fast as possible >> to give a user a "good feeling" on how the web pictures >> are downloading. None of them stop and do flow control by >> not reading.. the flow control the kernel provides IMO is more >> designed for when the web app is taking a bit more to >> render a picture... this gives a temporary buffer for it >> to get the jpg displayed (or whatever) and get back and >> read more... >> >>> I shall investigate in detail how this work in Linux and Solaris. >>> Overcommitting kernel buffers in a carrier grade system sounds like >>> a rather bad idea to me. But as you say, 10000 sockets will eat up >>> a lot of rarely used RAM if overcommitting is not allowed. >> I don't think ANY system I have ever looked at (and I have looked >> at a lot of kernel source code) does not do over-committing. Its >> a sound principle as long as apps don't start designing all there >> flow control in by making the kernel hold all their data. >> >>> Thank you for pointing this out to me. >> No problem ;-D Its an interesting discussion.. as these >> things normally are... >> >>>> Maybe in app space, but not necessarily in kernel space.. >>>> >>>> But having one thread per >>>> >>>>> association is bad news scalability-wise, so it is better to have >>>>> a fixed-size pool of I/O threads, which each do poll() and >>>>> non-blocking I/O. And then in most cases it is shown that it is >>>>> usually not much idea to have more than one I/O thread (or >>>>> separate input and output into own threads). >>>> So are you saying there are limits on threads too? Just like mbufs >>>> or skbufs? >>>> >>>> I agree.. but I don't expect a 1 to many socket to have 10,000 >>>> assoc's under it either :-D >>> I'm saying that having threads per session, threads per socket, >>> threads per X is a bad idea in general. What happens is that if you >>> increase load on that system in a way such that more threads are >>> created, the performance will degenerate and eventually there'll be >>> some sort of trashing, one will do more work switching threads than >>> doing actual work. In a carrier grade application server the number >>> of threads should be moderate and static. >> Maybe.. depends on the types of threads actually being used.. and >> how much it costs to context switch threads vs proc's and a >> whole host of other things. Often times with a threaded model you >> can avoid the overhead of a process context switch... which is >> usually ( but not always) more expensive. A select/poll always >> gives you a context switch... of course often times recv/send will >> do the same .. but it depends on how the threading model has been >> built into the kernel of course :-D >> >> R > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 19 18:49:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HefRB-0004Ry-VA for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:49:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HefRB-0005Nt-M7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:49:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 18:49:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JMnCWW031240; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:49:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JMmlGd020664; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:48:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3JMmDnJ007596 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:48:13 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3JMmDad007592 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:48:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,429,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="138078960:sNHT50837463" Message-Id: <4627F238.8050204@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:50:32 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Mark Butler , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <200704191736.03754.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704191736.03754.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 19 Apr 2007 22:47:52.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[C34EFDC0:01C782D4] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3174; t=1177022953; x=1177886953; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=e4Yu7/8cpTjNI4evy5ObWCCml08/KCxc/NUFBu5lnpg=; b=oubBn1+ItjYlEmnXLugo/vYkbB296/do/5c9lhDoW6FzeZiChJm819qchvhdo3lbflN/kdXw P8Mtgx+jRppJPrq842wscJKarCc5njy9VQTSSfGMTIIzsG4Izk7Eunoe; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3174; t=1177022887; x=1177886887; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=e4Yu7/8cpTjNI4evy5ObWCCml08/KCxc/NUFBu5lnpg=; b=rFrM0pW8bc5fi4InuSyNfIfAzwnzz7ag5AiVMtyoiO5QpckAC9uSyPvkHh/m3m9+oE9+h8sR e+KWuMLz+KkFFwAddO2Sc1xFPCTWNdSzmak2r5XrATCS2rB4et+rINxI; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 Anders Torger wrote: >>From my point of view, this seems to be a very sensible approach. > > It should also be made clear that option 2 is applicable to one-to-one > sockets. That is, one-to-many either 0, 1, or 2, and for one-to-one, 0 > or 2. > > The default being 0 for both types. Ack.. I will work on this in the plane tomorrow am and see if I can't put out some drafty text here shortly. R > > /Anders > > On Thursday 19 April 2007 07:33, Mark Butler wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> Comments inline. >> >>>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>>>> should work. >>>>> >>>>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not >>>>> clear on which one it should be: >>>>> >>>>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>>>> interleaved. >>>>> >>>>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>>>> partial >>>>> deliveries with no restrictions. >> I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, >> you are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at >> all. That is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to >> serious stalling problems on a 1:M socket. >> >> Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option >> doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different streams >> on the same association, it seems to me that a neutral reading of the >> draft is that by default you typically get behavior (C) - no >> interleaving, and when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned on you get >> behavior (A). >> >> However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and >> behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that >> consideration be given to having an additional value for the >> SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: >> >> 0 - interleave off >> 1 - interleave across different associations only >> 2 - interleave across different streams within the same >> association >> >> The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are >> backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request >> any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior >> corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. >> >> The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. >> >> The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies >> application programming to know in some cases that you only need to >> handle one message per association at a time, and of course it >> eliminates the most serious inter-association blocking problems. >> >> The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows >> multiple-stream applications to recover from single packet loss >> stutations more smoothly than otherwise - such that in many cases >> only messages on the affected stream(s) are delayed instead of >> messages on all streams. Plus the inter-association benefits of level >> 1 of course. >> >> - Mark B. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Fri Apr 20 03:04:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HenAG-0003XC-AO for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:04:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HenAF-0007Fy-0t for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:04:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2007 03:04:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3K74EWM032649; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:04:14 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3K73LlG004894; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:03:22 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3K71hv4015648 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:01:43 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3K71hnh015644 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:01:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAM0BKEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,430,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81338000:sNHT27150192" In-Reply-To: <20070419051302.A11320@openss7.org> References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462748CC.7020606@sun.com> <20070419051302.A11320@openss7.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2F894207-7A7D-4D30-8DCF-5E2237F36ECA@micmac.franken.de> CC: Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:59:48 +0200 To: bidulock@openss7.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3K71flT015638 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Hi Brians, Qiaobing wrote me a while ago that it was done on purpose. Have forgotten, what purpose. But the question came up some time ago. Best regards Michael On Apr 19, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > Kacheong, > > It more than the API, it is the protocol: > > Number of Outbound Streams (OS): 16 bits (unsigned integer) > > Defines the number of outbound streams the sender of this INIT > chunk wishes to create in this association. The value of 0 MUST > NOT be used. > > Note: A receiver of an INIT with the OS value set to 0 SHOULD > abort the association. > > Number of Inbound Streams (MIS) : 16 bits (unsigned integer) > > Defines the maximum number of streams the sender of this INIT > chunk allows the peer end to create in this association. The > value 0 MUST NOT be used. > > Note: There is no negotiation of the actual number of streams > but > instead the two endpoints will use the min(requested, offered). > See Section 5.1.1 for details. > > Note: A receiver of an INIT with the MIS value of 0 SHOULD abort > the association. > > So, even though the Stream ID can represent 65536 streams, only 65535 > can be requested in the INIT. > > That application that wants one more stream is SOL. > > --brian > > > On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: > >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set to >>> 65535, >>> since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in RFC2960 it >>> seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. >> >> >> I guess this is a bug in the API... >> >> >>> One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG >>> is the >>> number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 >>> streams plus stream 0. >>> >>> However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at least. >>> When I >>> set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, if I >>> try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. Thus >>> these >>> implementations support 65535 streams. >>> >>> Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations >>> buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream >>> count to >>> 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 >>> rather >>> than 65536 streams? >> >> >> I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to >> represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late >> to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms >> implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> K. Poon. >> kacheong.poon@sun.com > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ > bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ > http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ > ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ > ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Fri Apr 20 03:08:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HenE8-0004Vr-6B for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:08:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HenE7-0001ij-Tp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:08:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2007 03:08:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3K78FVr001604; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:08:15 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3K787lG005891; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:08:07 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3K783gF015747 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:08:03 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3K783Ia015743 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:08:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOkDKEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,430,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54015526:sNHT19495845" In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:06:17 +0200 To: Mark Butler X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Dear all, I like the idea of having a socket option to support multiple modes. 2 should be called interleave between different associations and also between diferent streams of the same association. Mode 0 and 2 apply to 1-to-1 sockets, 0 being the default. Mode 0, 1, 2 apply to 1-to-many models. But zero provides a security risk. So I'm wondering if it would be better to make 1 he default of 1-to-many sockets. So the application writer has to set a socket option and provide code for not being affected by the security risk. If we make 0 the default we have to put a warning in and provide text in the security section. But I'm not sure if everyone will read the text of the socketoption when he's not going to use it. So I'm supporting the socket option, it is a nice thing. But I also vote the 1 being the default for 1-to-many style sockets. Best regards Michael On Apr 19, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Mark Butler wrote: > Hello all, > > Comments inline. > >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>> >>>> It is not clear to me how SCTP partial delivery using recvmsg() >>>> should work. >>>> >>>> It seems to be two approaches, and the socket API draft is not >>>> clear on which one it should be: >>>> >>>> A) On the same association, a partial delivery should not be >>>> interleaved. >>>> >>>> B) Partial deliveries can be interleaved with other complete or >>>> partial >>>> deliveries with no restrictions. >>> > > I hope it is clear that if you don't set SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, > you are (generally speaking) not going to get any interleaving at > all. That is relatively benign on a 1:1 socket, but may lead to > serious stalling problems on a 1:M socket. > > Since the draft 14 document for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option > doesn't say anything about interleaving messages on different > streams on the same association, it seems to me that a neutral > reading of the draft is that by default you typically get behavior > (C) - no interleaving, and when SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE is turned > on you get behavior (A). > > However, it seems to me there are cases where both behavior (A) and > behavior (B) have real world benefits. So I suggest that > consideration be given to having an additional value for the > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same > association > > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can > request any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver > behavior corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > The rationale for supporting level 0 is backward compatibility. > > The rationale for supporting level 1 is that it simplifies > application programming to know in some cases that you only need to > handle one message per association at a time, and of course it > eliminates the most serious inter-association blocking problems. > > The rationale for supporting level 2 is that it allows multiple- > stream applications to recover from single packet loss stutations > more smoothly than otherwise - such that in many cases only > messages on the affected stream(s) are delayed instead of messages > on all streams. Plus the inter-association benefits of level 1 of > course. > > - Mark B. > From henrik.jensen@ericsson.com Fri Apr 20 07:50:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hercx-0001Vi-52 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:50:11 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hercv-0001jR-RY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:50:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2007 04:50:00 -0700 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3KBnxYE030018; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:49:59 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3KBnElG013955; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:49:14 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3KBldZC020986 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:47:39 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3KBldKi020982 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:47:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to henrik.jensen@ericsson.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.180.251.60 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMRFKEbBtPs8kmdsb2JhbACQCwIBAQcIBg8b X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,432,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81427446:sNHT44183322" X-Auditid: c1b4fb3c-a84eabb0000073d5-12-4628a7f77601 Message-Id: <4628A7F6.4060003@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:45:58 +0200 From: "Henrik Jensen (TED)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.10) Gecko/20070217 Iceape/1.0.8 (Debian-1.0.8-1) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 20 Apr 2007 11:45:59.0273 (UTC) FILETIME=[76CEDD90:01C78341] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=henrik.jensen@ericsson.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Mark Butler wrote: > So I suggest that consideration be given to having an additional value > for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: > > 0 - interleave off > 1 - interleave across different associations only > 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association > > The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are > backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request > any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior > corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. > > > - Mark B. Question: Is it clear whether or not SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 still limits the number of concurrent partial deliveries per association to 1 only? If not, I believe this change in SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE does also require a modification to the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT notification. The notification is only able to inform about the abortion of partial delivery per association - not which stream the abort is concerning. I dont think it is acceptable to let the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORT abort all the current ongoing partial deliveries of the association. In some cases (e.g. the support of the partial reliability functionality) not _all_ the ongoing partial deliveries should be aborted. As an alternative, we could still limit the number of concurrent partial deliveries per association to 1 only. Regards Henrik -- Henrik Jensen Phone Job: +45 3091 8461 Ericsson Telebit A/S Private: +45 8628 1084 Skanderborgvej 232 Email Job: henrik.jensen@ericsson.com DK-8260 Viby J, Denmark Private: j1s1@mail1.stofanet.dk From sprt_y_mb@yahoo.co.jp Fri Apr 20 14:11:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HexZx-0003Fi-7V for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:11:29 -0400 Received: from [222.127.4.232] (helo=pc39) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HexZt-000461-TA for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:11:29 -0400 From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?c3BydF95X21iQHlhaG9vLmNvLmpw?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJSglQyVBJEpNRCRKOkokckp6JCQkRiRfJF4kOyRzJCshKRsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:39:20 +0900 Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 $B!!?M:J$K6=L#$N$"$kJ}8BDj$G$NJg=8$H$J$j$^$9!#(B $B!!?M:JNq#1G/L$K~$NM7$SB-$j$J$$=w@-$,Cf?4$G$9!#(B $B!!#3#0Be!A#4#0Be$N=w@-$O$b$A$m$s$N$3$H!"(B $B!!#2#0Be$N=w@-!"#1#0Be$N=w@-$b>/$7$G$9$,$4>R2p=PMh$^$9!#(B $B!!0lHLFH?H=w@-$H0c$$!"?M:J$NJ}$NEPO?$,Cf?4$G$9$N$G!"(B $B!!@Q6KE*$K%"%W%m!<%A$5$l$kJ}$,B?$/!"(B $B!!CK@-EPO?$rD:$$$F$$$^$9!#(B $B!!:#2s$NJg=8$K$D$-$^$7$F!"40A4L5NA$G$N$4>R2p$H$J$j$^$9$N$G!"(B $B!!Aa4|=*N;$N2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!!Jg=8=*N;$H$J$C$?>l9g$G$b!"(B $B!!$4MxMQNA6b$NH/@8$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s$N$G$40B?42<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!(#(!(!($!#"h!y!!:#2s$N$4>R2p=w@-!!!y(B $B!!!!("!@!?("!!!!!!!y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!y(B $B!!(B------------------------------------------- $B!!!!L>A0!'%f%-!!!!!!!!!!!!L>A0!'??5*;R(B $B!!!!G/Np!'#2#7:P!!!!!!!!!!G/Np!'#3#2:P(B $B!!!!(B $B!!=iIb5$!'2q\:Y$O%3%A%i!!"M!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://qp-sp.com/sw/?media=pcy10 From Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com Fri Apr 20 14:20:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hexj7-0001a3-L1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:20:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hexj5-0000JH-8G for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:20:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2007 14:20:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3KIKsv0025571; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:20:54 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3KIJEGd000706; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:19:14 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3KIH5UX027671 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:17:05 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3KIH5pR027667 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:17:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 216.82.253.51 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAAGgKEbYUv0zkmdsb2JhbACQCwIBAQcIBg8b X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,433,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81576453:sNHT28845423" X-Viruschecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com X-MSG-Ref: server-9.tower-153.messagelabs.com!1177092644!5156433!1 X-Starscan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-Ip: [129.188.136.8] Message-Id: <46290219.6000506@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:10:33 -0500 From: Qiaobing Xie User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: bidulock@openss7.org, Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462748CC.7020606@sun.com> <20070419051302.A11320@openss7.org> <2F894207-7A7D-4D30-8DCF-5E2237F36ECA@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <2F894207-7A7D-4D30-8DCF-5E2237F36ECA@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Vontu: Pass Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a I don't remember what I said then, but I believe the purpose for setting 0 aside is to reserve it for future use (a general practice in stds). regards, -Qiaobing Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Brians, > > Qiaobing wrote me a while ago that it was done on purpose. Have forgotten, > what purpose. But the question came up some time ago. > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 19, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > >> Kacheong, >> >> It more than the API, it is the protocol: >> >> Number of Outbound Streams (OS): 16 bits (unsigned integer) >> >> Defines the number of outbound streams the sender of this INIT >> chunk wishes to create in this association. The value of 0 MUST >> NOT be used. >> >> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the OS value set to 0 SHOULD >> abort the association. >> >> Number of Inbound Streams (MIS) : 16 bits (unsigned integer) >> >> Defines the maximum number of streams the sender of this INIT >> chunk allows the peer end to create in this association. The >> value 0 MUST NOT be used. >> >> Note: There is no negotiation of the actual number of streams but >> instead the two endpoints will use the min(requested, offered). >> See Section 5.1.1 for details. >> >> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the MIS value of 0 SHOULD abort >> the association. >> >> So, even though the Stream ID can represent 65536 streams, only 65535 >> can be requested in the INIT. >> >> That application that wants one more stream is SOL. >> >> --brian >> >> >> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: >> >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>> Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set to >>>> 65535, >>>> since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in RFC2960 it >>>> seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. >>> >>> >>> I guess this is a bug in the API... >>> >>> >>>> One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG is the >>>> number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 >>>> streams plus stream 0. >>>> >>>> However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at least. When I >>>> set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, if I >>>> try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. Thus these >>>> implementations support 65535 streams. >>>> >>>> Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations >>>> buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream count to >>>> 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 rather >>>> than 65536 streams? >>> >>> >>> I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to >>> represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late >>> to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms >>> implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> K. Poon. >>> kacheong.poon@sun.com >> >> --Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ >> bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ >> http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ >> ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ >> ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ >> From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Fri Apr 20 14:27:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hexp1-0003vk-VI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:27:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hexp0-0001of-Kk for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:27:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2007 14:27:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3KIR15B021837; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:27:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3KIQnGd002865; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:26:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3KIQLNU027816 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:26:21 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3KIQLnQ027812 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:26:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFmiKEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCwIBCA4q X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,433,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81579992:sNHT26665380" In-Reply-To: <46290219.6000506@motorola.com> References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462748CC.7020606@sun.com> <20070419051302.A11320@openss7.org> <2F894207-7A7D-4D30-8DCF-5E2237F36ECA@micmac.franken.de> <46290219.6000506@motorola.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1E83E626-5288-4B6D-9276-9072BE2FD90C@micmac.franken.de> CC: bidulock@openss7.org, Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:24:31 +0200 To: Qiaobing Xie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3KIQJww027809 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 Hi Qiaobing, it is what you said... Best regards Michael On Apr 20, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Qiaobing Xie wrote: > I don't remember what I said then, but I believe the purpose for > setting 0 aside is to reserve it for future use (a general practice > in stds). > > regards, > -Qiaobing > > Michael Tuexen wrote: >> Hi Brians, >> Qiaobing wrote me a while ago that it was done on purpose. Have >> forgotten, >> what purpose. But the question came up some time ago. >> Best regards >> Michael >> On Apr 19, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>> Kacheong, >>> >>> It more than the API, it is the protocol: >>> >>> Number of Outbound Streams (OS): 16 bits (unsigned integer) >>> >>> Defines the number of outbound streams the sender of this INIT >>> chunk wishes to create in this association. The value of 0 >>> MUST >>> NOT be used. >>> >>> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the OS value set to 0 SHOULD >>> abort the association. >>> >>> Number of Inbound Streams (MIS) : 16 bits (unsigned integer) >>> >>> Defines the maximum number of streams the sender of this INIT >>> chunk allows the peer end to create in this association. The >>> value 0 MUST NOT be used. >>> >>> Note: There is no negotiation of the actual number of >>> streams but >>> instead the two endpoints will use the min(requested, >>> offered). >>> See Section 5.1.1 for details. >>> >>> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the MIS value of 0 SHOULD >>> abort >>> the association. >>> >>> So, even though the Stream ID can represent 65536 streams, only >>> 65535 >>> can be requested in the INIT. >>> >>> That application that wants one more stream is SOL. >>> >>> --brian >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: >>> >>>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>>> Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set >>>>> to 65535, >>>>> since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in >>>>> RFC2960 it >>>>> seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. >>>> >>>> >>>> I guess this is a bug in the API... >>>> >>>> >>>>> One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG >>>>> is the >>>>> number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 >>>>> streams plus stream 0. >>>>> >>>>> However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at >>>>> least. When I >>>>> set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, >>>>> if I >>>>> try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. >>>>> Thus these >>>>> implementations support 65535 streams. >>>>> >>>>> Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations >>>>> buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream >>>>> count to >>>>> 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 >>>>> rather >>>>> than 65536 streams? >>>> >>>> >>>> I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to >>>> represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late >>>> to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms >>>> implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> K. Poon. >>>> kacheong.poon@sun.com >>> >>> --Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to >>> the ｦ >>> bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ >>> http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ >>> ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ >>> ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ >>> > From ypo9lym@chello.com Fri Apr 20 16:39:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hezst-00021q-74; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:39:11 -0400 Received: from [201.64.78.60] (helo=veqwz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hezsr-0005dY-Bw; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:39:10 -0400 To: Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:38:07 -0300 From: "Marcie Thersa" Message-ID: <911k762k.9528686@chello.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=girls.inside; d=chello.com; b=DxkBWNguOfBZbDRXNCxjEGYPYZdePZHAXGYPtrGtwGWGGfZHVDArUsTBbrmiEBaQEwVvFvMMFyFDvBiV; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20060111) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: 99 percent of all men have a weaker, smaller and underdeveloped penis to what they could posses. 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From butlerm@middle.net Fri Apr 20 21:28:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf4Oo-00019i-4q for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:28:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf4Om-0005Ll-Sq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:28:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2007 21:28:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3L1SOH2011090; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:28:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3L1RdGd007190; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:27:39 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3L1PAXo002577 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:25:10 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3L1PAT2002573 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:25:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAKoEKUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,434,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54268866:sNHT18102861" Message-Id: <462965C3.80908@middle.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:15:47 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: "Henrik Jensen (TED)" , Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <4628A7F6.4060003@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4628A7F6.4060003@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Comments in-line. Henrik Jensen (TED) wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> So I suggest that consideration be given to having an additional >> value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: >> >> 0 - interleave off >> 1 - interleave across different associations only >> 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association >> >> The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are >> backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request >> any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior >> corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. >> > Question: Is it clear whether or not SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 still > limits the number of concurrent partial deliveries per association to > 1 only? No. I believe there are many cases where support for multiple concurrent partial deliveries on different streams of the same association would be beneficial. > > If not, I believe this change in SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE does also > require a modification to the > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT notification. The notification is only > able to inform about the abortion of partial delivery per association > - not which stream the abort is concerning. > > I dont think it is acceptable to let the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORT > abort all the current ongoing partial deliveries of the association. > In some cases (e.g. the support of the partial reliability > functionality) not _all_ the ongoing partial deliveries should be > aborted. Good point. I suggest that a "uint16_t pdapi_stream" field be added to the sctp_pdapi_event structure for that very purpose. I might add as a further suggestion, that the cleanest way to handle messages that expire during partial delivery is to adopt the convention of terminating them with a zero length read with both MSG_EOR and MSG_TRUNC set. There are several advantages to that convention - it is simpler, it is easier to program, and naive applications will be less likely to run messages together. Proper compatibility could be maintained by only delivering such semantics to applications that do _not_ subscribe to partial delivery events. - Mark B. From kacheong.poon@sun.com Sat Apr 21 01:17:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf7yd-0008DA-NX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:17:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf7yc-0005sq-FC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:17:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 01:17:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3L5Hb9u022533; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:17:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3L5GKGd008842; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:16:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3L5ETDj006262 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:14:29 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3L5ETfk006258 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:14:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to kacheong.poon@sun.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.18.43.24 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJI6KUbAEisYkmdsb2JhbACQCwIBAQcODR0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54298583:sNHT17581554" Message-Id: <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:13:34 +0800 From: Kacheong Poon Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070303) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <4628A7F6.4060003@ericsson.com> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462965C3.80908@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=kacheong.poon@sun.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Mark Butler wrote: > Good point. I suggest that a "uint16_t pdapi_stream" field be added to > the sctp_pdapi_event structure for that very purpose. > I might add as a further suggestion, that the cleanest way to handle > messages that expire during partial delivery is to adopt the convention > of terminating them with a zero length read with both MSG_EOR and > MSG_TRUNC set. There are several advantages to that convention - it is > simpler, it is easier to program, and naive applications will be less > likely to run messages together. Proper compatibility could be > maintained by only delivering such semantics to applications that do > _not_ subscribe to partial delivery events. What is the original reason for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT? It seems to me that using MSG_TRUNC is probably a better indication. And the app handling code is simpler. -- K. Poon. kacheong.poon@sun.com From butlerm@middle.net Sat Apr 21 03:12:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf9m7-0002eC-GV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:12:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf9m6-0002Xc-8F for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:12:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 03:12:51 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3L7Cnpp009324; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:12:49 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3L7BuGd023628; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:11:57 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3L7A4hd007941 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:10:04 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3L7A41M007937 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:10:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAKVVKUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81777623:sNHT24410538" Message-Id: <4629B873.2000406@middle.net> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:08:35 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Kacheong Poon Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <4628A7F6.4060003@ericsson.com> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Kacheong Poon wrote: >Mark Butler wrote: > > >>Good point. I suggest that a "uint16_t pdapi_stream" field be added to >>the sctp_pdapi_event structure for that very purpose. >>I might add as a further suggestion, that the cleanest way to handle >>messages that expire during partial delivery is to adopt the convention >>of terminating them with a zero length read with both MSG_EOR and >>MSG_TRUNC set. There are several advantages to that convention - it is >>simpler, it is easier to program, and naive applications will be less >>likely to run messages together. Proper compatibility could be >>maintained by only delivering such semantics to applications that do >>_not_ subscribe to partial delivery events. >> >> >What is the original reason for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT? >It seems to me that using MSG_TRUNC is probably a better >indication. And the app handling code is simpler. > > I don't know the original reason, but I anticipate a couple of minor objections: POSIX specifies that recvmsg() should return zero after "no messages are available to be received and the peer has performed an orderly shutdown" (such as a TCP half close for example). All though POSIX does not require it, I believe some people assume the reverse - that such an "end-of-file" condition is the only time recvmsg ever returns zero bytes read. This convention, of course, would require such a zero length read in many cases. POSIX also specifies that MSG_TRUNC be set on SOCK_DGRAM style sockets when the available data exceeds the buffer size. It does not anticipate protocol initiated truncation, and using MSG_TRUNC in this way would be an extension of POSIX semantics. It appears to be a clean extension to me - either way MSG_TRUNC means you do not have the whole message. Of course we do not currently support SOCK_DGRAM style read semantics, but if we did there would be a slight ambiguity when the number of bytes available on a PR-SCTP terminated message was exactly equal to the provided buffer size. Although I can't imagine what difference it would make in practice, strictly speaking we would need an additional flag added to sctp_sndrcvinfo to tell the difference in that case. - Mark B. > > > > From torger@ludd.ltu.se Sat Apr 21 03:34:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfA6k-0002Ft-My for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:34:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfA6j-0007yu-Es for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:34:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 03:34:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3L7Y7bq006239; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:34:07 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3L7XYlG028522; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:33:34 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3L7XOFs008266 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:33:24 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3L7XNIa008262 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 03:33:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAF9bKUbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQCwIBAQcODR0 X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54315048:sNHT17644941" From: Anders Torger To: Kacheong Poon Subject: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:21:50 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: Mark Butler , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 It seems to me that for SCTP (since we have partial delivery) the only time I will ever receive MSG_TRUNC is for an aborted partial delivery. This is good if it is true, because it makes the case easy to handle. Thus, for an aborted partial delivery I would simply look for MSG_TRUNC, I don't need to check for MSG_EOR in that case if I don't want to. Additionally, I think it also would be possible that recvmsg() returns > 0 and MSG_TRUNC as well? Would this example code work today (Solaris, Linux my primary interests), or do we have to listen to the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT to catch this case? count = recvmsg(sock, &msg, 0); switch (count) { case -1: ... case 0: /* Either a clean shutdown, or we got a partial delivery abort, which can happen when PR-SCTP is used or when an association is aborted. */ if ((msg.msg_flags & MSG_TRUNC) == 0) { return PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORT; } return CLEAN_SHUTDOWN; default: if ((msg.msg_flags & MSG_TRUNC) == 0) { return PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORT; } ... } /Anders Torger On Saturday 21 April 2007 07:13, Kacheong Poon wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > > Good point. I suggest that a "uint16_t pdapi_stream" field be > > added to the sctp_pdapi_event structure for that very purpose. > > I might add as a further suggestion, that the cleanest way to > > handle messages that expire during partial delivery is to adopt the > > convention of terminating them with a zero length read with both > > MSG_EOR and MSG_TRUNC set. There are several advantages to that > > convention - it is simpler, it is easier to program, and naive > > applications will be less likely to run messages together. Proper > > compatibility could be maintained by only delivering such semantics > > to applications that do _not_ subscribe to partial delivery events. > > What is the original reason for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT? > It seems to me that using MSG_TRUNC is probably a better > indication. And the app handling code is simpler. From butlerm@middle.net Sat Apr 21 04:41:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfB9a-0000SF-1X for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 04:41:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfB9Y-00063w-Qi for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 04:41:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 04:41:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3L8f7FX024453; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 04:41:07 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3L8eKGd004741; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:40:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3L8dSt2009763 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 04:39:28 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3L8dSAh009759 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 04:39:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAIBqKUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54322856:sNHT22922289" Message-Id: <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:30:14 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Kacheong Poon , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Anders Torger wrote: >It seems to me that for SCTP (since we have partial delivery) the only >time I will ever receive MSG_TRUNC is for an aborted partial delivery. >This is good if it is true, because it makes the case easy to handle. > >Thus, for an aborted partial delivery I would simply look for MSG_TRUNC, >I don't need to check for MSG_EOR in that case if I don't want to. > >Additionally, I think it also would be possible that recvmsg() returns > >0 and MSG_TRUNC as well? > > If the convention were adopted, yes. Some applications might benefit from getting the remainder of a partial message, but it would likely be implementation dependent whether any such data was available. >Would this example code work today (Solaris, Linux my primary >interests), or do we have to listen to the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT >to catch this case? > > No. I don't think anyone implements this yet. - Mark B. From message@ebay.com Sat Apr 21 06:23:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfCl2-0007OS-8S for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:23:56 -0400 Received: from static-68-161-229-185.ny325.east.verizon.net ([68.161.229.185] helo=192.168.0.254) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfCl1-0005Di-30 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:23:56 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From rrs@cisco.com Sat Apr 21 07:14:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDXo-0005PW-V1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:14:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDXn-0002jO-M2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:14:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 07:14:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LBEJgv017417; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:14:19 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LBDWGd024788; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:13:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LBCaNr012436 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:12:36 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LBCaMQ012432 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:12:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="414123550:sNHT50133636" Message-Id: <4629F238.4050202@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:15:04 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, "Henrik Jensen (TED)" Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46262F29.60202@sun.com> <4626B902.7000709@cisco.com> <4626FF3C.5060306@middle.net> <4628A7F6.4060003@ericsson.com> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462965C3.80908@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2007 11:12:25.0567 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0F576F0:01C78405] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2634; t=1177154059; x=1178018059; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=VIKIthVjbswrlsZHPof/BB9V5KVpL68oHjhPRGI963U=; b=kPuMXogq0eT336f+RM63znqwTwwP2RIGbEPT7YrKjOWrxRkiQ5PMTgSYbu5i5vyYDyDlRHqi KMoTkVdbJ3tooc5XRatKZYESS83jmCrgA1au3ZWalaabiPOFa9bTfTOs; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2634; t=1177153954; x=1178017954; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim8002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Partial=20delivery=20API=20unclear |Sender:=20; bh=VIKIthVjbswrlsZHPof/BB9V5KVpL68oHjhPRGI963U=; b=NpptY1sY3eA9ippZ1CbhI0jwVNf33g9FEw4IriLg2//VtLFIkdLjw6PqHRHZHZXjVWQGHBzS /13I5S6XDW4TlXwT9sTUH+qrWDbu6U3TMZmg43LtVTGZIi2ddY9Gaeoi; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim8002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Mark Butler wrote: > Comments in-line. > > Henrik Jensen (TED) wrote: > >> Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> So I suggest that consideration be given to having an additional >>> value for the SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE option as follows: >>> >>> 0 - interleave off >>> 1 - interleave across different associations only >>> 2 - interleave across different streams within the same association >>> >>> The good part about such a specification is that higher levels are >>> backward compatible to lower levels. An SCTP application can request >>> any higher level, and the SCTP implementation can deliver behavior >>> corresponding to any lower level without breaking anything. >>> >> Question: Is it clear whether or not SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 still >> limits the number of concurrent partial deliveries per association to >> 1 only? > > No. I believe there are many cases where support for multiple > concurrent partial deliveries on different streams of the same > association would be beneficial. I agree, once you have multi-stream delivery you can have each one being partially delivered. > >> >> If not, I believe this change in SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE does also >> require a modification to the >> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT notification. The notification is only >> able to inform about the abortion of partial delivery per association >> - not which stream the abort is concerning. >> >> I dont think it is acceptable to let the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORT >> abort all the current ongoing partial deliveries of the association. >> In some cases (e.g. the support of the partial reliability >> functionality) not _all_ the ongoing partial deliveries should be >> aborted. > > Good point. I suggest that a "uint16_t pdapi_stream" field be added to > the sctp_pdapi_event structure for that very purpose. Yep.. we will need that.. I will circle back and add it. R > I might add as a further suggestion, that the cleanest way to handle > messages that expire during partial delivery is to adopt the convention > of terminating them with a zero length read with both MSG_EOR and > MSG_TRUNC set. There are several advantages to that convention - it is > simpler, it is easier to program, and naive applications will be less > likely to run messages together. Proper compatibility could be > maintained by only delivering such semantics to applications that do > _not_ subscribe to partial delivery events. > - Mark B. > > > > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sat Apr 21 07:38:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDva-0003UB-6z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:38:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDvY-0007nq-VB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:38:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 07:38:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LBcqHL014728; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:38:52 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LBcAGd027992; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:38:10 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LBbWTr012773 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:37:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LBbWKU012769 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:37:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="138783988:sNHT50110650" Message-Id: <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:40:03 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: Anders Torger , Kacheong Poon , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2007 11:37:25.0238 (UTC) FILETIME=[6ED51960:01C78409] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1317; t=1177155532; x=1178019532; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=xzQYjARdltKp9eJT7jx+xYIbzYgWHUFZ7d3jK615GNo=; b=GbxNqSOoWVFdhYtANGLK5PHLwXZC4JkNORe2NFXwiyrXtJQO76ICJC02QdM8gD1I/BIyGUes uer+/mC90UxpC6M3y8JB5rq3cpTiN+9/9kNW+tl6dbpOlCO1NUPX04Qz; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1317; t=1177155450; x=1178019450; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC |Sender:=20; bh=xzQYjARdltKp9eJT7jx+xYIbzYgWHUFZ7d3jK615GNo=; b=urqgCfjptCW8dQIi6S6zG7AYX3uwPoCq6yaezcYgXFbCZRAGm4g295987ue2w0T4ZmyvzDvZ obFTtUsV/p4iFOkNMXcQmVSPU5rM3NITn/6DVhv6UVFO1QIat+b0nq4/; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Mark Butler wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > >> It seems to me that for SCTP (since we have partial delivery) the only >> time I will ever receive MSG_TRUNC is for an aborted partial delivery. >> This is good if it is true, because it makes the case easy to handle. >> >> Thus, for an aborted partial delivery I would simply look for >> MSG_TRUNC, I don't need to check for MSG_EOR in that case if I don't >> want to. >> >> Additionally, I think it also would be possible that recvmsg() returns >> > 0 and MSG_TRUNC as well? >> >> > If the convention were adopted, yes. Some applications might benefit > from getting the remainder of a partial message, but it would likely be > implementation dependent whether any such data was available. > >> Would this example code work today (Solaris, Linux my primary >> interests), or do we have to listen to the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT >> to catch this case? >> >> > No. I don't think anyone implements this yet. > > - Mark B. > Actually you are incorrect ;-) BSD supports the pd-api event.. And by the way it also supports sending a MSG_TRUNC with the last bit of data being read. I believe there has to be data though.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sat Apr 21 07:41:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDyA-0007DG-U7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:41:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDy8-0000aY-Og for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:41:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 07:41:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LBfWRb015177; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:41:32 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LBfIlG029932; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:41:18 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LBelN7012820 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:40:47 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LBelCf012816 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:40:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="138784650:sNHT78875712" Message-Id: <4629F8D8.3090501@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:43:20 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Qiaobing Xie , bidulock@openss7.org, Kacheong Poon , Anders Torger , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462748CC.7020606@sun.com> <20070419051302.A11320@openss7.org> <2F894207-7A7D-4D30-8DCF-5E2237F36ECA@micmac.franken.de> <46290219.6000506@motorola.com> <1E83E626-5288-4B6D-9276-9072BE2FD90C@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <1E83E626-5288-4B6D-9276-9072BE2FD90C@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2007 11:40:41.0645 (UTC) FILETIME=[E3E66DD0:01C78409] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4666; t=1177155692; x=1178019692; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Does=20SCTP=20support=2065535=20or=2065536=20streams= 20per=20association? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=WD1TK//7dtrG1RbX2fUILj7n4muMPnL8kY6ojS4wvs4=; b=rDgfVA6vjHhfq/JdUMFtFD+BZ1rF1vh9MIRS4sa5EFx3FHVwU4z9QD590ee4Nz4QtIdltwKR hqbKNR2VRcELmgATuchbTqIzOgt4QmX6r5nFCO0fLaKOd1Z9DkR1fjK8; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4666; t=1177155645; x=1178019645; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Does=20SCTP=20support=2065535=20or=2065536=20streams= 20per=20association? |Sender:=20; bh=WD1TK//7dtrG1RbX2fUILj7n4muMPnL8kY6ojS4wvs4=; b=ElpAD1PzKucYo6gatWvGFMipnMNHUBk4NMRL5Y0vTesAgALS0ULXDdhAaQwKioePF0BtpAkj KyOUeEFuhIrU/WbaR505dR8XqxMK3PE912LurjjvMPSIRCoz1VmmseV+; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d I shutter to ask this question.. but it continually comes up.. Maybe we need to add back a method to add a stream to an association... We had this in the original spec.. (and a way to delete streams too).. but some in the team (Vern and Lixia if I remember right) thought it was to complicated and had it removed... It did add a lot of code.. but that was mainly for the delete case.. so maybe adding a stream would not be too bad.. And then if you really really really wanted 65,536 streams and 65,535 was not enough.. then you could negotiate the 65k-1 and then add the last stream :-D Of course if you really are to the point where 65k-1 is NOT enough.. I doubt you will be happy with 65k :-D R Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Qiaobing, > > it is what you said... > > Best regards > Michael > > On Apr 20, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Qiaobing Xie wrote: > >> I don't remember what I said then, but I believe the purpose for >> setting 0 aside is to reserve it for future use (a general practice in >> stds). >> >> regards, >> -Qiaobing >> >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> Hi Brians, >>> Qiaobing wrote me a while ago that it was done on purpose. Have >>> forgotten, >>> what purpose. But the question came up some time ago. >>> Best regards >>> Michael >>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >>>> Kacheong, >>>> >>>> It more than the API, it is the protocol: >>>> >>>> Number of Outbound Streams (OS): 16 bits (unsigned integer) >>>> >>>> Defines the number of outbound streams the sender of this INIT >>>> chunk wishes to create in this association. The value of 0 MUST >>>> NOT be used. >>>> >>>> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the OS value set to 0 SHOULD >>>> abort the association. >>>> >>>> Number of Inbound Streams (MIS) : 16 bits (unsigned integer) >>>> >>>> Defines the maximum number of streams the sender of this INIT >>>> chunk allows the peer end to create in this association. The >>>> value 0 MUST NOT be used. >>>> >>>> Note: There is no negotiation of the actual number of streams but >>>> instead the two endpoints will use the min(requested, offered). >>>> See Section 5.1.1 for details. >>>> >>>> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the MIS value of 0 SHOULD abort >>>> the association. >>>> >>>> So, even though the Stream ID can represent 65536 streams, only 65535 >>>> can be requested in the INIT. >>>> >>>> That application that wants one more stream is SOL. >>>> >>>> --brian >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>>>> Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set to >>>>>> 65535, >>>>>> since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in RFC2960 it >>>>>> seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to 65535. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I guess this is a bug in the API... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> One could think however that the value provided in SCTP_INITMSG is >>>>>> the >>>>>> number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means 65535 >>>>>> streams plus stream 0. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at least. >>>>>> When I >>>>>> set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - 65534, if I >>>>>> try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails with EINVAL. Thus >>>>>> these >>>>>> implementations support 65535 streams. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris implementations >>>>>> buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed to limit stream >>>>>> count to >>>>>> 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to 65535 >>>>>> rather >>>>>> than 65536 streams? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to >>>>> represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late >>>>> to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms >>>>> implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- K. Poon. >>>>> kacheong.poon@sun.com >>>> >>>> --Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ >>>> bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ >>>> http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ >>>> ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ >>>> ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ >>>> >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sat Apr 21 07:45:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfE28-0003ov-Kx for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:45:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfE21-00023I-PJ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:45:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 07:45:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LBjXK9022703; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:45:33 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LBjIGd028889; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:45:18 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LBiu4s012861 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:44:56 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LBiuTO012857 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:44:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="html'217?scan'217,208,217"; a="480267362:sNHT422567862" Message-Id: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:47:21 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors Subject: text for pd-api changes Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060801020703060803050609" X-Originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2007 11:44:45.0107 (UTC) FILETIME=[7503C830:01C7840A] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=201488; t=1177155933; x=1178019933; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20 |To:=20SCTP=20Implementors=20; bh=lLwcg9Frj7Vzrk4WvFy2lvZ2wamcDLccLGwHnA7wXiY=; b=TVAXn+SdEVaPZFBPcQylkimJQH3w8xpuLwiZ/3k8Qnt5OoD2Ys8TLhxhYp7ur5GMJnBQoKQl NOl0QN9SKxdYB1oWwGCuz09C5ZONZrFaY29TpQF7UWHk/6eOEPVSM8Fu; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=201488; t=1177155892; x=1178019892; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20; bh=lLwcg9Frj7Vzrk4WvFy2lvZ2wamcDLccLGwHnA7wXiY=; b=CRjOvHOw0CO9Wb16oX4TH6hAoVDlANoK0CsWE1V1f1OlSElOqcpBpABN3BuheF8AEujWGPhh VhObbxpDbNn998fNudE+UMTKK2ZC8QUfBYi9uIVL9pbFoSg7MD2y9c4e; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d2ef8a017d8070cfdc3108436d3b9538 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060801020703060803050609 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all: I have attached the rfc-diff of the -14 to the upcoming -15 changes. I made all the changes on the plane as discussed previously. There are some other changes in here that Michael did a ways back I believe.. he can comment on those.. The big things I added were: a) The changes to the PD-API event b) The mega-changes to the Fragment_interleave c) Kacheong's typos d) A restriction, that I felt made sense, that you don't get the extinfo unless you have a MSG_EOR. The stack will only assure what your next msg is if and only if you are fully consuming the present message. This makes sense to me :-D Michaels changes I believe had to do with the MAXSEG option.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) --------------060801020703060803050609 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-15-from-4.diff.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-15-from-4.diff.html" Diff: draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-14.txt - draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-15.txt
 draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-14.txt   draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-15.txt 
Network Working Group R. Stewart Network Working Group R. Stewart
Internet-Draft Cisco Systems, Inc. Internet-Draft Cisco Systems, Inc.
Expires: June 14, 2007 Q. Xie Expires: October 23, 2007 Q. Xie
Motorola, Inc. Motorola, Inc.
L. Yarroll L. Yarroll
TimeSys Corp TimeSys Corp
K. Poon K. Poon
Sun Microsystems, Inc. Sun Microsystems, Inc.
M. Tuexen M. Tuexen
Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster
December 11, 2006 April 21, 2007
Sockets API Extensions for Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP) Sockets API Extensions for Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP)
draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-14.txt draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-15.txt
Status of this Memo Status of this Memo
By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any
applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes
aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.
Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that
skipping to change at page 1, line 41 skipping to change at page 1, line 41
and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."
The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.
The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.
This Internet-Draft will expire on June 14, 2007. This Internet-Draft will expire on October 23, 2007.
Copyright Notice Copyright Notice
Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2006). Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007).
Abstract Abstract
This document describes a mapping of the Stream Control Transmission This document describes a mapping of the Stream Control Transmission
Protocol SCTP into a sockets API. The benefits of this mapping Protocol SCTP into a sockets API. The benefits of this mapping
include compatibility for TCP applications, access to new SCTP include compatibility for TCP applications, access to new SCTP
features and a consolidated error and event notification scheme. features and a consolidated error and event notification scheme.
Table of Contents Table of Contents
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4.1.7. shutdown() - one-to-one style socket . . . . . . . . . 19 4.1.7. shutdown() - one-to-one style socket . . . . . . . . . 19
4.1.8. sendmsg() and recvmsg() - one-to-one style socket . . 20 4.1.8. sendmsg() and recvmsg() - one-to-one style socket . . 20
4.1.9. getpeername() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 4.1.9. getpeername() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
5. Data Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 5. Data Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
5.1. The msghdr and cmsghdr Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 5.1. The msghdr and cmsghdr Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
5.2. SCTP msg_control Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 5.2. SCTP msg_control Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22
5.2.1. SCTP Initiation Structure (SCTP_INIT) . . . . . . . . 23 5.2.1. SCTP Initiation Structure (SCTP_INIT) . . . . . . . . 23
5.2.2. SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_SNDRCV) . . . 24 5.2.2. SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_SNDRCV) . . . 24
5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure 5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure
(SCTP_EXTRCV) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 (SCTP_EXTRCV) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
5.3.1. SCTP Notification Structure . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 5.3.1. SCTP Notification Structure . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
5.4. Ancillary Data Considerations and Semantics . . . . . . . 42 5.4. Ancillary Data Considerations and Semantics . . . . . . . 40
5.4.1. Multiple Items and Ordering . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 5.4.1. Multiple Items and Ordering . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
5.4.2. Accessing and Manipulating Ancillary Data . . . . . . 42 5.4.2. Accessing and Manipulating Ancillary Data . . . . . . 40
5.4.3. Control Message Buffer Sizing . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 5.4.3. Control Message Buffer Sizing . . . . . . . . . . . . 41
6. Common Operations for Both Styles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 6. Common Operations for Both Styles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42
6.1. send(), recv(), sendto(), recvfrom() . . . . . . . . . . . 44 6.1. send(), recv(), sendto(), recvfrom() . . . . . . . . . . . 42
6.2. setsockopt(), getsockopt() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 6.2. setsockopt(), getsockopt() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43
6.3. read() and write() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 6.3. read() and write() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44
6.4. getsockname() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 6.4. getsockname() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44
7. Socket Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 7. Socket Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45
7.1. Read / Write Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48 7.1. Read / Write Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46
7.1.1. Retransmission Timeout Parameters (SCTP_RTOINFO) . . . 48 7.1.1. Retransmission Timeout Parameters (SCTP_RTOINFO) . . . 46
7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) . . . . . . . 49 7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) . . . . . . . 47
7.1.3. Initialization Parameters (SCTP_INITMSG) . . . . . . . 51 7.1.3. Initialization Parameters (SCTP_INITMSG) . . . . . . . 49
7.1.4. SO_LINGER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 7.1.4. SO_LINGER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49
7.1.5. SCTP_NODELAY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 7.1.5. SCTP_NODELAY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49
7.1.6. SO_RCVBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 7.1.6. SO_RCVBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
7.1.7. SO_SNDBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 7.1.7. SO_SNDBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
7.1.8. Automatic Close of associations (SCTP_AUTOCLOSE) . . . 52 7.1.8. Automatic Close of associations (SCTP_AUTOCLOSE) . . . 50
7.1.9. Set Peer Primary Address 7.1.9. Set Peer Primary Address
(SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 (SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
7.1.10. Set Primary Address (SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . 53 7.1.10. Set Primary Address (SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . 51
7.1.11. Set Adaptation Layer Indicator 7.1.11. Set Adaptation Layer Indicator
(SCTP_ADAPTATION_LAYER) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 (SCTP_ADAPTATION_LAYER) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51
7.1.12. Enable/Disable message fragmentation 7.1.12. Enable/Disable message fragmentation
(SCTP_DISABLE_FRAGMENTS) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 (SCTP_DISABLE_FRAGMENTS) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51
7.1.13. Peer Address Parameters (SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS) . . . 54 7.1.13. Peer Address Parameters (SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS) . . . 52
7.1.14. Set default send parameters 7.1.14. Set default send parameters
(SCTP_DEFAULT_SEND_PARAM) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 (SCTP_DEFAULT_SEND_PARAM) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54
7.1.15. Set notification and ancillary events (SCTP_EVENTS) . 57 7.1.15. Set notification and ancillary events (SCTP_EVENTS) . 54
7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped addresses 7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped addresses
(SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54
7.1.17. Set the maximum fragmentation size (SCTP_MAXSEG) . . . 57 7.1.17. Get or set the maximum fragmentation size
(SCTP_MAXSEG) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55
7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated 7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated
(SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55
7.1.19. Get or set the list of supported HMAC Identifiers 7.1.19. Get or set the list of supported HMAC Identifiers
(SCTP_HMAC_IDENT) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 (SCTP_HMAC_IDENT) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56
7.1.20. Set a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . 58 7.1.20. Set a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . 56
7.1.21. Get or set the active shared key 7.1.21. Get or set the active shared key
(SCTP_AUTH_ACTIVE_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59 (SCTP_AUTH_ACTIVE_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57
7.1.22. Delete a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_DELETE_KEY) . . . . . . 59 7.1.22. Delete a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_DELETE_KEY) . . . . . . 57
7.1.23. Get or set delayed ack timer 7.1.23. Get or set delayed ack timer
(SCTP_DELAYED_ACK_TIME) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 (SCTP_DELAYED_ACK_TIME) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58
7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave 7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave
(SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58
7.1.25. Set or Get the sctp partial delivery point 7.1.25. Set or Get the sctp partial delivery point
(SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 (SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) . . . . . . . . . . . . 59
7.1.26. Set or Get the use of extended receive info 7.1.26. Set or Get the use of extended receive info
(SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 (SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
7.1.27. Set or Get the auto asconf flag (SCTP_AUTO_ASCONF) . . 61 7.1.27. Set or Get the auto asconf flag (SCTP_AUTO_ASCONF) . . 60
7.1.28. Set or Get the maximum burst (SCTP_MAX_BURST) . . . . 61 7.1.28. Set or Get the maximum burst (SCTP_MAX_BURST) . . . . 60
7.1.29. Set or Get the default context (SCTP_CONTEXT) . . . . 62 7.1.29. Set or Get the default context (SCTP_CONTEXT) . . . . 60
7.1.30. Enable or disable explicit EOR marking 7.1.30. Enable or disable explicit EOR marking
(SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 (SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
7.2. Read-Only Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 7.2. Read-Only Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
7.2.1. Association Status (SCTP_STATUS) . . . . . . . . . . . 62 7.2.1. Association Status (SCTP_STATUS) . . . . . . . . . . . 61
7.2.2. Peer Address Information (SCTP_GET_PEER_ADDR_INFO) . . 64 7.2.2. Peer Address Information (SCTP_GET_PEER_ADDR_INFO) . . 63
7.2.3. Get the list of chunks the peer requires to be 7.2.3. Get the list of chunks the peer requires to be
authenticated (SCTP_PEER_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . . . . 65 authenticated (SCTP_PEER_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . . . . 64
7.2.4. Get the list of chunks the local endpoint requires 7.2.4. Get the list of chunks the local endpoint requires
to be authenticated (SCTP_LOCAL_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . 65 to be authenticated (SCTP_LOCAL_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . 64
7.2.5. Get the list of current associations 7.2.5. Get the list of current associations
(SCTP_GET_ASOC_ID_LIST) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65 (SCTP_GET_ASOC_ID_LIST) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64
7.3. Ancillary Data and Notification Interest Options . . . . . 66 7.3. Ancillary Data and Notification Interest Options . . . . . 65
8. New Interfaces . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 8. New Interfaces . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67
8.1. sctp_bindx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 8.1. sctp_bindx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68
8.2. Branched-off Association . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 8.2. Branched-off Association . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69
8.3. sctp_getpaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 8.3. sctp_getpaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69
8.4. sctp_freepaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 8.4. sctp_freepaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
8.5. sctp_getladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 8.5. sctp_getladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
8.6. sctp_freeladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 8.6. sctp_freeladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71
8.7. sctp_sendmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 8.7. sctp_sendmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71
8.8. sctp_recvmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 8.8. sctp_recvmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72
8.9. sctp_connectx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 8.9. sctp_connectx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72
8.10. sctp_send() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 8.10. sctp_send() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73
8.11. sctp_sendx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 8.11. sctp_sendx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
8.12. sctp_getaddrlen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 8.12. sctp_getaddrlen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75
9. Preprocessor Constants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 9. Preprocessor Constants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75
10. IANA considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 10. IANA considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76
11. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 11. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76
12. Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 12. Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76
13. Normative references . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78 13. Normative references . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77
Appendix A. one-to-one style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . . 78 Appendix A. one-to-one style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . . 77
Appendix B. one-to-many style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . 84 Appendix B. one-to-many style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . 83
Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 85 Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84
Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 87 Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 86
1. Introduction 1. Introduction
The sockets API has provided a standard mapping of the Internet The sockets API has provided a standard mapping of the Internet
Protocol suite to many operating systems. Both TCP RFC793 [RFC0793] Protocol suite to many operating systems. Both TCP RFC793 [RFC0793]
and UDP RFC768 [RFC0768] have benefited from this standard and UDP RFC768 [RFC0768] have benefited from this standard
representation and access method across many diverse platforms. SCTP representation and access method across many diverse platforms. SCTP
is a new protocol that provides many of the characteristics of TCP is a new protocol that provides many of the characteristics of TCP
but also incorporates semantics more akin to UDP. This document but also incorporates semantics more akin to UDP. This document
defines a method to map the existing sockets API for use with SCTP, defines a method to map the existing sockets API for use with SCTP,
skipping to change at page 11, line 11 skipping to change at page 11, line 11
If the application does not provide enough buffer space to completely If the application does not provide enough buffer space to completely
receive a data message, MSG_EOR will not be set in msg_flags. receive a data message, MSG_EOR will not be set in msg_flags.
Successive reads will consume more of the same message until the Successive reads will consume more of the same message until the
entire message has been delivered, and MSG_EOR will be set. entire message has been delivered, and MSG_EOR will be set.
If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially deliver If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially deliver
a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more calls to a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more calls to
recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the message. Only recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the message. Only
one message at a time per stream can be partially delivered. one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. The
socket option SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE controls various aspects of
what interlacing of messages occurs for both the one-to-one and the
one-to-many model sockets. Please consult Section 7.1.24 for further
details on message delivery options.
Note, if the socket is a branched-off socket that only represents one Note, if the socket is a branched-off socket that only represents one
association (see Section 3.1), the msg_name field can be used to association (see Section 3.1), the msg_name field can be used to
override the primary address when sending data. override the primary address when sending data.
3.1.5. close() - one-to-many style socket 3.1.5. close() - one-to-many style socket
Applications use close() to perform graceful shutdown (as described Applications use close() to perform graceful shutdown (as described
in Section 10.1 of RFC2960 [RFC2960]) on ALL the associations in Section 10.1 of RFC2960 [RFC2960]) on ALL the associations
currently represented by a one-to-many style socket. currently represented by a one-to-many style socket.
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for the association announced in the SCTP_COMM_UP notification. All for the association announced in the SCTP_COMM_UP notification. All
notifications for a given association have the same identifier. notifications for a given association have the same identifier.
Ignored for one-to-one style sockets. Ignored for one-to-one style sockets.
A sctp_sndrcvinfo item always corresponds to the data in msg_iov. A sctp_sndrcvinfo item always corresponds to the data in msg_iov.
5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_EXTRCV) 5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_EXTRCV)
This cmsghdr structure specifies SCTP options for SCTP header This cmsghdr structure specifies SCTP options for SCTP header
information about a received message via recvmsg(). Note that this information about a received message via recvmsg(). Note that this
structure is an extended version of SCTP_SNDRCV and will only be structure is an extended version of SCTP_SNDRCV (see Section 5.2.2)
received if the user has set the socket option SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO and will only be received if the user has set the socket option
to true in addition to any event subscription needed to receive SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO to true in addition to any event subscription
ancillary data.. needed to receive ancillary data. Note that next message data is not
valid unless the current message is completely read, i.e. the MSG_EOR
is set, in other words if you have more data to read from the current
message then no next message information will be available.
cmsg_level cmsg_type cmsg_data[] cmsg_level cmsg_type cmsg_data[]
------------ ------------ ---------------------- ------------ ------------ ----------------------
IPPROTO_SCTP SCTP_SNDRCV struct sctp_sndrcvinfo IPPROTO_SCTP SCTP_EXTRCV struct sctp_extrcvinfo
Here is the definition of sctp_sndrcvinfo: Here is the definition of sctp_extrcvinfo
struct sctp_extrcvinfo { struct sctp_extrcvinfo {
uint16_t sinfo_stream; struct sctp_sndrcvinfo serinfo_sinfo;
uint16_t sinfo_ssn; uint16_t serinfo_next_flags;
uint16_t sinfo_flags; uint16_t serinfo_next_stream;
uint32_t sinfo_ppid; uint32_t serinfo_next_aid;
uint32_t sinfo_context; uint32_t serinfo_next_length;
uint32_t sinfo_timetolive; uint32_t serinfo_next_ppid;
uint32_t sinfo_tsn;
uint32_t sinfo_cumtsn;
sctp_assoc_t sinfo_assoc_id;
uint16_t next_flags;
uint16_t next_stream;
uint32_t next_asocid;
uint32_t next_length;
uint32_t next_ppid;
}; };
sinfo_stream: 16 bits (unsigned integer) serinfo_sinfo: structure
For recvmsg() the SCTP stack places the message's stream number in
this value. For sendmsg() this value holds the stream number that
the application wishes to send this message to. If a sender
specifies an invalid stream number an error indication is returned
and the call fails.
sinfo_ssn: 16 bits (unsigned integer)
For recvmsg() this value contains the stream sequence number that the
remote endpoint placed in the DATA chunk. For fragmented messages
this is the same number for all deliveries of the message (if more
than one recvmsg() is needed to read the message). The sendmsg()
call will ignore this parameter.
sinfo_ppid: 32 bits (unsigned integer)
This value in sendmsg() is an unsigned integer that is passed to the
remote end in each user message. In recvmsg() this value is the same
information that was passed by the upper layer in the peer
application. Please note that the SCTP stack performs no byte order
modification of this field. For example, if the DATA chunk has to
contain a given value in network byte order, the SCTP user has to
perform the htonl() computation.
sinfo_context: 32 bits (unsigned integer)
This value is an opaque 32 bit context datum that is used in the
sendmsg() function. This value is passed back to the upper layer if
a error occurs on the send of a message and is retrieved with each
undelivered message (Note: if a endpoint has done multiple sends, all
of which fail, multiple different sinfo_context values will be
returned. One with each user data message).
sinfo_flags: 16 bits (unsigned integer)
This field may contain any of the following flags and is composed of
a bitwise OR of these values.
recvmsg() flags:
SCTP_UNORDERED - This flag is present when the message was sent non-
ordered.
sendmsg() flags:
SCTP_UNORDERED - This flag requests the un-ordered delivery of the
message. If this flag is clear the datagram is considered an
ordered send.
SCTP_ADDR_OVER - This flag, in the one-to-many style, requests the
SCTP stack to override the primary destination address with the
address found with the sendto/sendmsg call.
SCTP_ABORT - Setting this flag causes the specified association to
abort by sending an ABORT message to the peer (one-to-many style
only). The ABORT chunk will contain an error cause 'User
Initiated Abort' with cause code 12. The cause specific
information of this error cause is provided in msg_iov.
SCTP_EOF - Setting this flag invokes the SCTP graceful shutdown
procedures on the specified association. Graceful shutdown
assures that all data enqueued by both endpoints is successfully
transmitted before closing the association (one-to-many style
only).
SCTP_SENDALL - This flag, if set, will cause a one-to-many model
socket to send the message to all associations that are currently
established on this socket. For the one-to-one socket, this flag
has no effect.
SCTP_EOR - This flag, if set, will indicate that this send
terminates the record.
sinfo_timetolive: 32 bit (unsigned integer)
For the sending side, this field contains the message time to live in
milliseconds. The sending side will expire the message within the
specified time period if the message as not been sent to the peer
within this time period. This value will override any default value
set using any socket option. Also note that the value of 0 is
special in that it indicates no timeout should occur on this message.
sinfo_tsn: 32 bit (unsigned integer)
For the receiving side, this field holds a TSN that was assigned to
one of the SCTP Data Chunks.
sinfo_cumtsn: 32 bit (unsigned integer)
This field will hold the current cumulative TSN as known by the
underlying SCTP layer. Note this field is ignored when sending and
only valid for a receive operation when sinfo_flags are set to
SCTP_UNORDERED.
sinfo_assoc_id: sizeof (sctp_assoc_t)
The association handle field, sinfo_assoc_id, holds the identifier
for the association announced in the SCTP_COMM_UP notification. All
notifications for a given association have the same identifier.
Ignored for one-to-one style sockets.
A sctp_sndrcvinfo item always corresponds to the data in msg_iov. Please see Section 5.2.2 for the details for this structure.
next_flags: 16 bit (unsigned integer) serinfo_next_flags: 16 bit (unsigned integer)
This bitmask will hold one or more of the following values: This bitmask will hold one or more of the following values:
SCTP_NEXT_MSG_AVAIL - This bit, when set to 1, indicates that next SCTP_NEXT_MSG_AVAIL - This bit, when set to 1, indicates that next
message information is available i.e.: next_stream, next_asocid, message information is available i.e.: next_stream, next_asocid,
next_length and next_ppid fields all have valid values. If this next_length and next_ppid fields all have valid values. If this
bit is set to 0, then these fields are not valid and should be bit is set to 0, then these fields are not valid and should be
ignored. ignored.
SCTP_NEXT_MSG_ISCOMPLETE - This bit, when set, indicates that the SCTP_NEXT_MSG_ISCOMPLETE - This bit, when set, indicates that the
next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length
field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set
to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message
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next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length
field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set
to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message
size since the message is still being received (it is being size since the message is still being received (it is being
partially delivered). partially delivered).
SCTP_NEXT_MSG_IS_UNORDERED - This bit, when set, indicates that the SCTP_NEXT_MSG_IS_UNORDERED - This bit, when set, indicates that the
next message to be received was sent by the peer as unordered. If next message to be received was sent by the peer as unordered. If
this bit is not set (i.e the bit is 0) the next message to be read this bit is not set (i.e the bit is 0) the next message to be read
is an ordered message in the stream specified. is an ordered message in the stream specified.
SCTP_NEXT_MSG_IS_NOTIFICATION - This bit, when set, indicates that
the next message to be received is not a message from the peer,
but instead is a MSG_NOTIFICATION from the local SCTP stack.
next_stream: 16 bit (unsigned integer) serinfo_next_stream: 16 bit (unsigned integer)
This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the next stream This value, when valid (see sreinfo_next_flags), contains the next
number that will be received on a subsequent call to one of the stream number that will be received on a subsequent call to one of
receive message functions. the receive message functions.
next_asocid: 32 bit (unsigned integer) serinfo_next_aid: 32 bit (unsigned integer)
This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the next This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the next
association identification that will be received on a subsequent call association identification that will be received on a subsequent call
to one of the receive message functions. to one of the receive message functions.
next_length: 32 bit (unsigned integer) sreinfo_next_length: 32 bit (unsigned integer)
This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the length of the This value, when valid (see sreinfo_next_flags), contains the length
next message that will be received on a subsequent call to one of the of the next message that will be received on a subsequent call to one
receive message functions. Note that this length may be a partial of the receive message functions. Note that this length may be a
length depending on the settings of next_flags. partial length depending on the settings of next_flags.
next_ppid: 32 bit (unsigned integer) sreinfo_next_ppid: 32 bit (unsigned integer)
This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the ppid of the This value, when valid (see sreinfo_next_flags), contains the ppid of
next message that will be received on a subsequent call to one of the the next message that will be received on a subsequent call to one of
receive message functions. the receive message functions.
5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications 5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications
An SCTP application may need to understand and process events and An SCTP application may need to understand and process events and
errors that happen on the SCTP stack. These events include network errors that happen on the SCTP stack. These events include network
status changes, association startups, remote operational errors and status changes, association startups, remote operational errors and
undeliverable messages. All of these can be essential for the undeliverable messages. All of these can be essential for the
application. application.
When an SCTP application layer does a recvmsg() the message read is When an SCTP application layer does a recvmsg() the message read is
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5.3.1.7. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT 5.3.1.7. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT
When a receiver is engaged in a partial delivery of a message this When a receiver is engaged in a partial delivery of a message this
notification will be used to indicate various events. notification will be used to indicate various events.
struct sctp_pdapi_event { struct sctp_pdapi_event {
uint16_t pdapi_type; uint16_t pdapi_type;
uint16_t pdapi_flags; uint16_t pdapi_flags;
uint32_t pdapi_length; uint32_t pdapi_length;
uint32_t pdapi_indication; uint32_t pdapi_indication;
uint32_t pdapi_stream;
uint32_t pdapi_seq;
sctp_assoc_t pdapi_assoc_id; sctp_assoc_t pdapi_assoc_id;
}; };
pdapi_type pdapi_type
It should be SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT It should be SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT
pdapi_flags: 16 bits (unsigned integer) pdapi_flags: 16 bits (unsigned integer)
Currently unused. Currently unused.
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This field is the total length of the notification data, including This field is the total length of the notification data, including
the notification header. It will generally be sizeof (struct the notification header. It will generally be sizeof (struct
sctp_pdapi_event). sctp_pdapi_event).
pdapi_indication: 32 bits (unsigned integer) pdapi_indication: 32 bits (unsigned integer)
This field holds the indication being sent to the application This field holds the indication being sent to the application
possible values include: possible values include:
SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORTED SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORTED
pdapi_stream: 16 bits (unsigned integer)
This field holds the stream on which the partial delivery event
happened.
pdapi_seq: 16 bits (unsigned integer)
This field holds the stream sequence number which was being partially
delivered.
pdapi_assoc_id: sizeof (sctp_assoc_t) pdapi_assoc_id: sizeof (sctp_assoc_t)
The association id field, holds the identifier for the association. The association id field, holds the identifier for the association.
All notifications for a given association have the same association All notifications for a given association have the same association
identifier. For one-to-one style socket, this field is ignored. identifier. For one-to-one style socket, this field is ignored.
5.3.1.8. SCTP_AUTHENTICATION_EVENT 5.3.1.8. SCTP_AUTHENTICATION_EVENT
When a receiver is using authentication this message will provide When a receiver is using authentication this message will provide
notifications regarding new keys being made active as well as errors. notifications regarding new keys being made active as well as errors.
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To access or modify these parameters, the application should call To access or modify these parameters, the application should call
getsockopt or setsockopt() respectively with the option name getsockopt or setsockopt() respectively with the option name
SCTP_RTOINFO. SCTP_RTOINFO.
7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) 7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO)
This option is used to both examine and set various association and This option is used to both examine and set various association and
endpoint parameters. endpoint parameters.
See RFC2960 [RFC2960] for more information on how this parameter is See RFC2960 [RFC2960] for more information on how this parameter is
used. The peer address parameter is ignored for one-to-one style used. The sasoc_assoc_id parameter is ignored for one-to-one style
socket. socket.
The following structure is used to access and modify this parameters: The following structure is used to access and modify this parameters:
struct sctp_assocparams { struct sctp_assocparams {
sctp_assoc_t sasoc_assoc_id; sctp_assoc_t sasoc_assoc_id;
uint16_t sasoc_asocmaxrxt; uint16_t sasoc_asocmaxrxt;
uint16_t sasoc_number_peer_destinations; uint16_t sasoc_number_peer_destinations;
uint32_t sasoc_peer_rwnd; uint32_t sasoc_peer_rwnd;
uint32_t sasoc_local_rwnd; uint32_t sasoc_local_rwnd;
uint32_t sasoc_cookie_life; uint32_t sasoc_cookie_life;
uint32_t sasoc_sack_delay;
uint32_t sasoc_sack_freq;
}; };
sasoc_asocmaxrxt - This contains the maximum retransmission attempts sasoc_asocmaxrxt - This contains the maximum retransmission attempts
to make for the association. to make for the association.
sasoc_number_peer_destinations - This is the number of destination sasoc_number_peer_destinations - This is the number of destination
addresses that the peer has. addresses that the peer has.
sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd
(reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data (reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data
inflight). inflight).
sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent
to the peer. to the peer.
sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used
when issuing cookies. when issuing cookies.
sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies
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addresses that the peer has. addresses that the peer has.
sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd
(reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data (reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data
inflight). inflight).
sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent
to the peer. to the peer.
sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used
when issuing cookies. when issuing cookies.
sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies
the association for this query. the association for this query.
sasoc_sack_delay - This field holds the delayed sack timer value in
milliseconds. If the value is 0, then the delayed sack algorithm
is disabled.
sasoc_sack_freq - This field holds the number of packets that must
be received before a sack is transmitted when delayed sack is
enabled.
This information may be examined for either the endpoint or a This information may be examined for either the endpoint or a
specific association. To examine a endpoints default parameters the specific association. To examine a endpoints default parameters the
association id (sasoc_assoc_id) should must be set to the value '0'. association id (sasoc_assoc_id) should must be set to the value '0'.
The values of the sasoc_peer_rwnd is meaningless when examining The values of the sasoc_peer_rwnd is meaningless when examining
endpoint information. endpoint information.
All parameters are time values, in milliseconds. A value of 0, when All parameters are time values, in milliseconds. A value of 0, when
modifying the parameters, indicates that the current value should not modifying the parameters, indicates that the current value should not
be changed. be changed.
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number of retransmissions sent before an address is considered number of retransmissions sent before an address is considered
unreachable. The following structure is used to access and modify an unreachable. The following structure is used to access and modify an
address's parameters: address's parameters:
struct sctp_paddrparams { struct sctp_paddrparams {
sctp_assoc_t spp_assoc_id; sctp_assoc_t spp_assoc_id;
struct sockaddr_storage spp_address; struct sockaddr_storage spp_address;
uint32_t spp_hbinterval; uint32_t spp_hbinterval;
uint16_t spp_pathmaxrxt; uint16_t spp_pathmaxrxt;
uint32_t spp_pathmtu; uint32_t spp_pathmtu;
uint32_t spp_sackdelay;
uint32_t spp_flags; uint32_t spp_flags;
uint32_t spp_ipv6_flowlabel; uint32_t spp_ipv6_flowlabel;
uint8_t spp_ipv4_tos; uint8_t spp_ipv4_tos;
}; };
spp_assoc_id - (one-to-many style socket) This is filled in the spp_assoc_id - (one-to-many style socket) This is filled in the
application, and identifies the association for this query. application, and identifies the association for this query.
spp_address - This specifies which address is of interest. spp_address - This specifies which address is of interest.
spp_hbinterval - This contains the value of the heartbeat interval, spp_hbinterval - This contains the value of the heartbeat interval,
in milliseconds. Note that unless the spp_flag is set to in milliseconds. Note that unless the spp_flag is set to
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unless the spp_flag is set to SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE the value of this unless the spp_flag is set to SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE the value of this
field is ignored. Note also that a value of zero indicates the field is ignored. Note also that a value of zero indicates the
current setting should be left unchanged. current setting should be left unchanged.
spp_pathmtu - When Path MTU discovery is disabled the value spp_pathmtu - When Path MTU discovery is disabled the value
specified here will be the "fixed" path mtu (i.e. the value of the specified here will be the "fixed" path mtu (i.e. the value of the
spp_flags field must include the flag SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE for this spp_flags field must include the flag SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE for this
field to have any effect). Note that if the spp_address field is field to have any effect). Note that if the spp_address field is
empty then all associations on this address will have this fixed empty then all associations on this address will have this fixed
path mtu set upon them. If an address is specified, then only path mtu set upon them. If an address is specified, then only
that address will be effected. that address will be effected.
spp_sackdelay - When delayed sack is enabled, this value specifies
the number of milliseconds that sacks will be delayed for. This
value will apply to all addresses of an association if the
spp_address field is empty. Note that unless the spp_flag is set
to SPP_SACKDELAY_ENABLE the value of this field is ignored. Note
also that a value of zero indicates the current setting should be
left unchanged.
spp_ipv6_flowlabel- This field is used in conjunction with the spp_ipv6_flowlabel- This field is used in conjunction with the
SPP_IPV4_FLOWLABEL flag. SPP_IPV4_FLOWLABEL flag.
spp_ipv4_tos- This field is used in conjunction with the spp_ipv4_tos- This field is used in conjunction with the
SPP_IPV4_TOS flag. SPP_IPV4_TOS flag.
spp_flags- These flags are used to control various features on an spp_flags- These flags are used to control various features on an
association. The flag field is a bit mask which may contain zero association. The flag field is a bit mask which may contain zero
or more of the following options: or more of the following options:
SPP_HB_ENABLE - Enable heartbeats on the specified address. Note SPP_HB_ENABLE - Enable heartbeats on the specified address. Note
that if the address field is empty all addresses for the that if the address field is empty all addresses for the
association have heartbeats enabled upon them. association have heartbeats enabled upon them.
SPP_HB_DISABLE - Disable heartbeats on the specified address. SPP_HB_DISABLE - Disable heartbeats on the specified address.
Note that if the address field is empty all addresses for the Note that if the address field is empty all addresses for the
skipping to change at page 55, line 33 skipping to change at page 53, line 31
SPP_HB_TIME_IS_ZERO - Specify's that the time for heartbeat delay SPP_HB_TIME_IS_ZERO - Specify's that the time for heartbeat delay
is to be set to the value of 0 milliseconds. is to be set to the value of 0 milliseconds.
SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE - This field will enable PMTU discovery upon the SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE - This field will enable PMTU discovery upon the
specified address. Note that if the address field is empty specified address. Note that if the address field is empty
then all addresses on the association are effected. then all addresses on the association are effected.
SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE - This field will disable PMTU discovery upon SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE - This field will disable PMTU discovery upon
the specified address. Note that if the address field is empty the specified address. Note that if the address field is empty
then all addresses on the association are effected. Not also then all addresses on the association are effected. Not also
that SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE and SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE are mutually that SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE and SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE are mutually
exclusive. Enabling both will have undetermined results. exclusive. Enabling both will have undetermined results.
SPP_SACKDELAY_ENABLE - Setting this flag turns on delayed sack.
The time specified in spp_sackdelay is used to specify the sack
delay for this address. Note that if spp_address is empty then
all addresses will enable delayed sack and take on the sack
delay value specified in spp_sackdelay.
SPP_SACKDELAY_DISABLE - Setting this flag turns off delayed sack.
If the spp_address field is blank then delayed sack is disabled
for the entire association. Note also that this field is
mutually exclusive to SPP_SACKDELAY_ENABLE, setting both will
have undefined results.
SPP_IPV6_FLOWLABEL - Setting this flag enables setting of the SPP_IPV6_FLOWLABEL - Setting this flag enables setting of the
IPV6 flowlabel value associated with either the association or IPV6 flowlabel value associated with either the association or
the specific address. If the address field is filled in, then the specific address. If the address field is filled in, then
the specific destination address has this value set upon it. the specific destination address has this value set upon it.
If the association is specified, but not the address, then the If the association is specified, but not the address, then the
flowlabel value is set for any future destination addresses flowlabel value is set for any future destination addresses
that may be added. The value is obtained in the that may be added. The value is obtained in the
spp_ipv6_flowlabel field. spp_ipv6_flowlabel field.
Upon retrieval, this flag will be set to indicate that the Upon retrieval, this flag will be set to indicate that the
skipping to change at page 57, line 16 skipping to change at page 55, line 4
This socket option is used to specify various notifications and This socket option is used to specify various notifications and
ancillary data the user wishes to receive. Please see Section 7.3) ancillary data the user wishes to receive. Please see Section 7.3)
for a full description of this option and its usage. for a full description of this option and its usage.
7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped addresses (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) 7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped addresses (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR)
This socket option is a boolean flag which turns on or off mapped V4 This socket option is a boolean flag which turns on or off mapped V4
addresses. If this option is turned on and the socket is type addresses. If this option is turned on and the socket is type
PF_INET6, then IPv4 addresses will be mapped to V6 representation. PF_INET6, then IPv4 addresses will be mapped to V6 representation.
If this option is turned off, then no mapping will be done of V4 If this option is turned off, then no mapping will be done of V4
addresses and a user will receive both PF_INET6 and PF_INET type addresses and a user will receive both PF_INET6 and PF_INET type
addresses on the socket. addresses on the socket.
By default this option is turned on and expects an integer to be By default this option is turned on and expects an integer to be
passed where non-zero turns on the option and zero turns off the passed where non-zero turns on the option and zero turns off the
option. option.
7.1.17. Set the maximum fragmentation size (SCTP_MAXSEG) 7.1.17. Get or set the maximum fragmentation size (SCTP_MAXSEG)
This socket option specifies the maximum size to put in any outgoing This options will get or set the maximum size to put in any outgoing
SCTP DATA chunk. If a message is larger than this size it will be SCTP DATA chunk. If a message is larger than this size it will be
fragmented by SCTP into the specified size. Note that the underlying fragmented by SCTP into the specified size. Note that the underlying
SCTP implementation may fragment into smaller sized chunks when the SCTP implementation may fragment into smaller sized chunks when the
PMTU of the underlying association is smaller than the value set by PMTU of the underlying association is smaller than the value set by
the user. The option expects an integer. the user. The default value for this option is '0' which indicates
the user is NOT limiting fragmentation and only the PMTU will effect
SCTP's choice of DATA chunk size.
The default value for this option is '0' which indicates the user is struct sctp_assoc_value {
NOT limiting fragmentation and only the PMTU will effect SCTP's sctp_assoc_t assoc_id;
choice of DATA chunk size. uint32_t assoc_value;
};
assoc_id - This parameter, indicates which association the user is
performing an action upon. Note that if this field's value is
zero then the endpoints default value is changed (effecting future
associations only).
assoc_value - This parameter specifies the maximum size in bytes.
7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) 7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK)
This option adds a chunk type that the user is requesting to be This option adds a chunk type that the user is requesting to be
received only in an authenticated way. Changes to the list of chunks received only in an authenticated way. Changes to the list of chunks
will only effect future associations on the socket. will only effect future associations on the socket.
struct sctp_authchunk { struct sctp_authchunk {
uint8_t sauth_chunk; uint8_t sauth_chunk;
}; };
skipping to change at page 60, line 37 skipping to change at page 58, line 37
performing an action upon. Note that if this field's value is performing an action upon. Note that if this field's value is
zero then the endpoints default value is changed (effecting future zero then the endpoints default value is changed (effecting future
associations only). associations only).
assoc_value - This parameter contains the number of milliseconds assoc_value - This parameter contains the number of milliseconds
that the user is requesting the delayed ACK timer be set to. Note that the user is requesting the delayed ACK timer be set to. Note
that this value is defined in the standard to be between 200 and that this value is defined in the standard to be between 200 and
500 milliseconds. 500 milliseconds.
7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) 7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE)
This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is doing Fragmented interleave controls how the presentation of messages
fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many occurs for the message receiver. There are three levels of fragment
socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return interleave defined. Two of the levels effect the one-to-one model,
parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations while the one-to-many model is effected by all three levels.
may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off,
no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line
blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many
socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may
come from a different association (thus the user must receive data
with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which
association each receive belongs to.
This option takes a boolean value. A non-zero value indicates that This option takes an integer value. It can be set to a value of 0, 1
fragmented interleave is on. A value of zero indicates that or 2. Attempting to set this level to other values will return an
fragmented interleave is off. error.
Note that it is important that an implementation that allows this Setting the three levels provides the following receiver
option to be turned on, have it off by default. Otherwise an unaware interactions:
application using the one to many model may become confused and act
incorrectly. level 0 - Prevents the interleaving of any messages. This means
that when a partial delivery begins, no other messages will be
received except the message being partially delivered. If another
message arrives on a different stream (or association) that could
be delivered, it will be blocked waiting for the user to read all
of the partially delivered message.
level 1 - Allows interleaving of messages that are of differing
association identifications. For the one-to-one model, level 0
and level 1 thus have the same meaning since a one-to-one socket
always receives messages from the same association. Note that
setting the one-to-many model to this level may cause multiple
partial delivers from different associations but for any given
association, only one message will be delivered until all parts of
a message have been delivered. This means that one large message,
being read with an association identification of "X", will block
other messages from association "X" from being delivered.
level 2 - Allows complete interleaving of messages. This level
requires that the sender carefully observe not only the peer
association identification (or address) but also must pay careful
attention to the stream number. With this option enabled a
partially delivered message may begin being delivered for
association "X" stream "Y" and the next subsequent receive may
return a message from association "X" stream "Z". Note that no
other messages would be delivered for association "X" stream "Y"
until all of stream "Y"'s partially delivered message was read.
Note that this option also effects the one-to-one model. Also
note that for the one-to-many model not only may another streams
message from the same association be delivered from the next
receive, some other associations message may be delivered upon the
next receive.
An implementation should default the one-to-many model to level 1.
The reason for this is that otherwise it is possible that a peer
could begin sending a partial message and thus block all other peers
from sending data. However a setting of level 2 requires the
application to not only be aware of the association (via the
association id or peers address) but also the stream number. The
stream number is NOT present unless the user has subscribed to the
sctp_data_io_events (see Section 7.3). This is also why we recommend
that the one-to-one model be defaulted to level 0 (level 1 for the
one-to-one model has no effect). Note that an implementation should
return an error if a application attempts to set the level to 2 and
has NOT subscribed to the sctp_data_io_events.
7.1.25. Set or Get the sctp partial delivery point 7.1.25. Set or Get the sctp partial delivery point
(SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) (SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT)
This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This
point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will be point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will be
invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a
lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. The lower value will cause partial deliveries to happen more often. The
calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery
point. point. Note also that the call will fail if the user attempts to set
this value larger than the socket receive buffer size.
Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery
will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user
provided buffer is large enough to hold the message.
7.1.26. Set or Get the use of extended receive info 7.1.26. Set or Get the use of extended receive info
(SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) (SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO)
This option will enable or disable the use of the extended version of This option will enable or disable the use of the extended version of
the sctp_sndrcvinfo structure. If this option is disabled, then the the sctp_sndrcvinfo structure. If this option is disabled, then the
normal sctp_sndrcvinfo structure is returned in all receive message normal sctp_sndrcvinfo structure is returned in all receive message
calls. If this option is enabled then the sctp_extrcvinfo structure calls. If this option is enabled then the sctp_extrcvinfo structure
is returned in all receive message calls. is returned in all receive message calls.
skipping to change at page 87, line 7 skipping to change at page 86, line 7
Michael Tuexen Michael Tuexen
Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster
Stegerwaldstr. 39 Stegerwaldstr. 39
48565 Steinfurt 48565 Steinfurt
Germany Germany
Email: tuexen@fh-muenster.de Email: tuexen@fh-muenster.de
Full Copyright Statement Full Copyright Statement
Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2006). Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007).
This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions
contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors
retain all their rights. retain all their rights.
This document and the information contained herein are provided on an This document and the information contained herein are provided on an
"AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS
OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND
THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS
OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF
 End of changes. 

This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.23, available from http://www.levkowetz.com/ietf/tools/rfcdiff/
--------------060801020703060803050609-- From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Sat Apr 21 09:09:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfFLC-0000mW-7T for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:09:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfFL9-0002e0-Ep for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:09:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 09:09:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LD9MhD030832; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:09:22 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LD8bGd010297; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:08:37 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LD77cM014037 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:07:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LD779G014033 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:07:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANioKUbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCwEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81853235:sNHT58049415" In-Reply-To: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: CC: SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:05:19 +0200 To: Randall Stewart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22ee92479d98f6ee260f4d663978f084 Hi Randy, I just changed the text for the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT from] Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. to Note that any single message having a length smaller than or equal to the SCTP partial delivery point will be delivered in one single read call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. Just a change of wording... Best regards Michael On Apr 21, 2007, at 1:47 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Dear all: > > I have attached the rfc-diff of the -14 to the upcoming > -15 changes. > > I made all the changes on the plane as discussed previously. > There are some other changes in here that Michael did a ways > back I believe.. he can comment on those.. > > The big things I added were: > > a) The changes to the PD-API event > b) The mega-changes to the Fragment_interleave > c) Kacheong's typos > d) A restriction, that I felt made sense, that you don't > get the extinfo unless you have a MSG_EOR. The stack > will only assure what your next msg is if and only > if you are fully consuming the present message. This > makes sense to me :-D > > Michaels changes I believe had to do with the MAXSEG option.. > > R > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-14.txt draft-ietf-tsvwg- > sctpsocket-15.txt > Network Working Group R. Stewart Network Working Group R. Stewart > Internet-Draft Cisco Systems, Inc. Internet-Draft Cisco Systems, Inc. > Expires: June 14, 2007 Q. Xie Expires: October 23, 2007 Q. Xie > Motorola, Inc. Motorola, Inc. > L. Yarroll L. Yarroll > TimeSys Corp TimeSys Corp > K. Poon K. Poon > Sun Microsystems, Inc. Sun Microsystems, Inc. > M. Tuexen M. Tuexen > Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster > December 11, 2006 April 21, 2007 > Sockets API Extensions for Stream Control Transmission Protocol > (SCTP) Sockets API Extensions for Stream Control Transmission > Protocol (SCTP) > draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-14.txt draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-15.txt > Status of this Memo Status of this Memo > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > skipping to change at page 1, line 41 skipping to change at page 1, > line 41 > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at > any and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents > at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference time. > It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." material > or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at The list of > current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. http://www.ietf.org/ > ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > This Internet-Draft will expire on June 14, 2007. This Internet- > Draft will expire on October 23, 2007. > Copyright Notice Copyright Notice > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2006). Copyright (C) The IETF Trust > (2007). > Abstract Abstract > This document describes a mapping of the Stream Control > Transmission This document describes a mapping of the Stream > Control Transmission > Protocol SCTP into a sockets API. The benefits of this mapping > Protocol SCTP into a sockets API. The benefits of this mapping > include compatibility for TCP applications, access to new SCTP > include compatibility for TCP applications, access to new SCTP > features and a consolidated error and event notification scheme. > features and a consolidated error and event notification scheme. > Table of Contents Table of Contents > skipping to change at page 2, line 42 skipping to change at page 2, > line 42 > 4.1.7. shutdown() - one-to-one style socket . . . . . . . . . 19 > 4.1.7. shutdown() - one-to-one style socket . . . . . . . . . 19 > 4.1.8. sendmsg() and recvmsg() - one-to-one style socket . . 20 > 4.1.8. sendmsg() and recvmsg() - one-to-one style socket . . 20 > 4.1.9. getpeername() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > 4.1.9. getpeername() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > 5. Data Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 5. Data Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 5.1. The msghdr and cmsghdr Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 5.1. The msghdr and cmsghdr Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 5.2. SCTP msg_control Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > 5.2. SCTP msg_control Structures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > 5.2.1. SCTP Initiation Structure (SCTP_INIT) . . . . . . . . 23 > 5.2.1. SCTP Initiation Structure (SCTP_INIT) . . . . . . . . 23 > 5.2.2. SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_SNDRCV) . . . 24 > 5.2.2. SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_SNDRCV) . . . 24 > 5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure 5.2.3. Extended > SCTP Header Information Structure > (SCTP_EXTRCV) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > (SCTP_EXTRCV) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > 5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > 5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 5.3.1. SCTP Notification Structure . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > 5.3.1. SCTP Notification Structure . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 5.4. Ancillary Data Considerations and Semantics . . . . . . . 42 > 5.4. Ancillary Data Considerations and Semantics . . . . . . . 40 > 5.4.1. Multiple Items and Ordering . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 > 5.4.1. Multiple Items and Ordering . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 > 5.4.2. Accessing and Manipulating Ancillary Data . . . . . . 42 > 5.4.2. Accessing and Manipulating Ancillary Data . . . . . . 40 > 5.4.3. Control Message Buffer Sizing . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 > 5.4.3. Control Message Buffer Sizing . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 > 6. Common Operations for Both Styles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 > 6. Common Operations for Both Styles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 > 6.1. send(), recv(), sendto(), recvfrom() . . . . . . . . . . . 44 > 6.1. send(), recv(), sendto(), recvfrom() . . . . . . . . . . . 42 > 6.2. setsockopt(), getsockopt() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 > 6.2. setsockopt(), getsockopt() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 > 6.3. read() and write() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 > 6.3. read() and write() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 > 6.4. getsockname() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 > 6.4. getsockname() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 > 7. Socket Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 47 7. Socket > Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 > 7.1. Read / Write Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48 > 7.1. Read / Write Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 > 7.1.1. Retransmission Timeout Parameters (SCTP_RTOINFO) . . . 48 > 7.1.1. Retransmission Timeout Parameters (SCTP_RTOINFO) . . . 46 > 7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) . . . . . . . 49 > 7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) . . . . . . . 47 > 7.1.3. Initialization Parameters (SCTP_INITMSG) . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.3. Initialization Parameters (SCTP_INITMSG) . . . . . . . 49 > 7.1.4. SO_LINGER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.4. SO_LINGER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49 > 7.1.5. SCTP_NODELAY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.5. SCTP_NODELAY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49 > 7.1.6. SO_RCVBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.6. SO_RCVBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 > 7.1.7. SO_SNDBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 > 7.1.7. SO_SNDBUF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 > 7.1.8. Automatic Close of associations (SCTP_AUTOCLOSE) . . . 52 > 7.1.8. Automatic Close of associations (SCTP_AUTOCLOSE) . . . 50 > 7.1.9. Set Peer Primary Address 7.1.9. Set Peer Primary Address > (SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 > (SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 > 7.1.10. Set Primary Address (SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . 53 > 7.1.10. Set Primary Address (SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR) . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.11. Set Adaptation Layer Indicator 7.1.11. Set Adaptation Layer > Indicator > (SCTP_ADAPTATION_LAYER) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 > (SCTP_ADAPTATION_LAYER) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.12. Enable/Disable message fragmentation 7.1.12. Enable/Disable > message fragmentation > (SCTP_DISABLE_FRAGMENTS) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 > (SCTP_DISABLE_FRAGMENTS) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 > 7.1.13. Peer Address Parameters (SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS) . . . 54 > 7.1.13. Peer Address Parameters (SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS) . . . 52 > 7.1.14. Set default send parameters 7.1.14. Set default send > parameters > (SCTP_DEFAULT_SEND_PARAM) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 > (SCTP_DEFAULT_SEND_PARAM) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54 > 7.1.15. Set notification and ancillary events (SCTP_EVENTS) . 57 > 7.1.15. Set notification and ancillary events (SCTP_EVENTS) . 54 > 7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped addresses 7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 > mapped addresses > (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54 > 7.1.17. Set the maximum fragmentation size (SCTP_MAXSEG) . . . 57 > 7.1.17. Get or set the maximum fragmentation size > (SCTP_MAXSEG) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 > 7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated 7.1.18. Add a chunk > that must be authenticated > (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 > 7.1.19. Get or set the list of supported HMAC Identifiers 7.1.19. > Get or set the list of supported HMAC Identifiers > (SCTP_HMAC_IDENT) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 > (SCTP_HMAC_IDENT) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 > 7.1.20. Set a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . 58 > 7.1.20. Set a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . 56 > 7.1.21. Get or set the active shared key 7.1.21. Get or set the > active shared key > (SCTP_AUTH_ACTIVE_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59 > (SCTP_AUTH_ACTIVE_KEY) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 > 7.1.22. Delete a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_DELETE_KEY) . . . . . . 59 > 7.1.22. Delete a shared key (SCTP_AUTH_DELETE_KEY) . . . . . . 57 > 7.1.23. Get or set delayed ack timer 7.1.23. Get or set delayed ack > timer > (SCTP_DELAYED_ACK_TIME) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 > (SCTP_DELAYED_ACK_TIME) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 > 7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave 7.1.24. Get or set > fragmented interleave > (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 > (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 > 7.1.25. Set or Get the sctp partial delivery point 7.1.25. Set or > Get the sctp partial delivery point > (SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 > (SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) . . . . . . . . . . . . 59 > 7.1.26. Set or Get the use of extended receive info 7.1.26. Set or > Get the use of extended receive info > (SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 > (SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 > 7.1.27. Set or Get the auto asconf flag (SCTP_AUTO_ASCONF) . . 61 > 7.1.27. Set or Get the auto asconf flag (SCTP_AUTO_ASCONF) . . 60 > 7.1.28. Set or Get the maximum burst (SCTP_MAX_BURST) . . . . 61 > 7.1.28. Set or Get the maximum burst (SCTP_MAX_BURST) . . . . 60 > 7.1.29. Set or Get the default context (SCTP_CONTEXT) . . . . 62 > 7.1.29. Set or Get the default context (SCTP_CONTEXT) . . . . 60 > 7.1.30. Enable or disable explicit EOR marking 7.1.30. Enable or > disable explicit EOR marking > (SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 > (SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 > 7.2. Read-Only Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 > 7.2. Read-Only Options . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 > 7.2.1. Association Status (SCTP_STATUS) . . . . . . . . . . . 62 > 7.2.1. Association Status (SCTP_STATUS) . . . . . . . . . . . 61 > 7.2.2. Peer Address Information (SCTP_GET_PEER_ADDR_INFO) . . 64 > 7.2.2. Peer Address Information (SCTP_GET_PEER_ADDR_INFO) . . 63 > 7.2.3. Get the list of chunks the peer requires to be 7.2.3. Get > the list of chunks the peer requires to be > authenticated (SCTP_PEER_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . . . . 65 > authenticated (SCTP_PEER_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . . . . 64 > 7.2.4. Get the list of chunks the local endpoint requires 7.2.4. > Get the list of chunks the local endpoint requires > to be authenticated (SCTP_LOCAL_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . 65 to be > authenticated (SCTP_LOCAL_AUTH_CHUNKS) . . . . . 64 > 7.2.5. Get the list of current associations 7.2.5. Get the list of > current associations > (SCTP_GET_ASOC_ID_LIST) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65 > (SCTP_GET_ASOC_ID_LIST) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64 > 7.3. Ancillary Data and Notification Interest Options . . . . . 66 > 7.3. Ancillary Data and Notification Interest Options . . . . . 65 > 8. New Interfaces . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 68 8. New > Interfaces . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 > 8.1. sctp_bindx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 > 8.1. sctp_bindx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 > 8.2. Branched-off Association . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 > 8.2. Branched-off Association . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 > 8.3. sctp_getpaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 > 8.3. sctp_getpaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 > 8.4. sctp_freepaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 > 8.4. sctp_freepaddrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 > 8.5. sctp_getladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 > 8.5. sctp_getladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 > 8.6. sctp_freeladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 > 8.6. sctp_freeladdrs() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 > 8.7. sctp_sendmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 > 8.7. sctp_sendmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 > 8.8. sctp_recvmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 > 8.8. sctp_recvmsg() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 > 8.9. sctp_connectx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 > 8.9. sctp_connectx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 > 8.10. sctp_send() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 > 8.10. sctp_send() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 > 8.11. sctp_sendx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 > 8.11. sctp_sendx() . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 > 8.12. sctp_getaddrlen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 > 8.12. sctp_getaddrlen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 > 9. Preprocessor Constants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 76 9. Preprocessor > Constants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 > 10. IANA considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 77 10. IANA > considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 > 11. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 77 11. Security > Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 > 12. Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 77 12. > Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 > 13. Normative references . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 78 13. Normative > references . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 > Appendix A. one-to-one style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . . > 78 Appendix A. one-to-one style Code > Example . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 > Appendix B. one-to-many style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . 84 > Appendix B. one-to-many style Code Example . . . . . . . . . . . 83 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 85 Authors' > Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84 > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . > 87 Intellectual Property and Copyright > Statements . . . . . . . . . . 86 > 1. Introduction 1. Introduction > The sockets API has provided a standard mapping of the Internet The > sockets API has provided a standard mapping of the Internet > Protocol suite to many operating systems. Both TCP RFC793 [RFC0793] > Protocol suite to many operating systems. Both TCP RFC793 [RFC0793] > and UDP RFC768 [RFC0768] have benefited from this standard and UDP > RFC768 [RFC0768] have benefited from this standard > representation and access method across many diverse platforms. > SCTP representation and access method across many diverse > platforms. SCTP > is a new protocol that provides many of the characteristics of TCP > is a new protocol that provides many of the characteristics of TCP > but also incorporates semantics more akin to UDP. This document but > also incorporates semantics more akin to UDP. This document > defines a method to map the existing sockets API for use with SCTP, > defines a method to map the existing sockets API for use with SCTP, > skipping to change at page 11, line 11 skipping to change at page > 11, line 11 > If the application does not provide enough buffer space to > completely If the application does not provide enough buffer space > to completely > receive a data message, MSG_EOR will not be set in msg_flags. > receive a data message, MSG_EOR will not be set in msg_flags. > Successive reads will consume more of the same message until the > Successive reads will consume more of the same message until the > entire message has been delivered, and MSG_EOR will be set. entire > message has been delivered, and MSG_EOR will be set. > If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may partially > deliver If the SCTP stack is running low on buffers, it may > partially deliver > a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more calls to > a message. In this case, MSG_EOR will not be set, and more calls to > recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the message. Only > recvmsg() will be necessary to completely consume the message. Only > one message at a time per stream can be partially delivered. one > message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. The > socket option SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE controls various aspects of > what interlacing of messages occurs for both the one-to-one and the > one-to-many model sockets. Please consult Section 7.1.24 for further > details on message delivery options. > Note, if the socket is a branched-off socket that only represents > one Note, if the socket is a branched-off socket that only > represents one > association (see Section 3.1), the msg_name field can be used to > association (see Section 3.1), the msg_name field can be used to > override the primary address when sending data. override the > primary address when sending data. > 3.1.5. close() - one-to-many style socket 3.1.5. close() - one-to- > many style socket > Applications use close() to perform graceful shutdown (as described > Applications use close() to perform graceful shutdown (as described > in Section 10.1 of RFC2960 [RFC2960]) on ALL the associations in > Section 10.1 of RFC2960 [RFC2960]) on ALL the associations > currently represented by a one-to-many style socket. currently > represented by a one-to-many style socket. > skipping to change at page 27, line 21 skipping to change at page > 27, line 21 > for the association announced in the SCTP_COMM_UP notification. All > for the association announced in the SCTP_COMM_UP notification. All > notifications for a given association have the same identifier. > notifications for a given association have the same identifier. > Ignored for one-to-one style sockets. Ignored for one-to-one style > sockets. > A sctp_sndrcvinfo item always corresponds to the data in msg_iov. A > sctp_sndrcvinfo item always corresponds to the data in msg_iov. > 5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_EXTRCV) > 5.2.3. Extended SCTP Header Information Structure (SCTP_EXTRCV) > This cmsghdr structure specifies SCTP options for SCTP header This > cmsghdr structure specifies SCTP options for SCTP header > information about a received message via recvmsg(). Note that this > information about a received message via recvmsg(). Note that this > structure is an extended version of SCTP_SNDRCV and will only be > structure is an extended version of SCTP_SNDRCV (see Section 5.2.2) > received if the user has set the socket option SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO > and will only be received if the user has set the socket option > to true in addition to any event subscription needed to receive > SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO to true in addition to any event subscription > ancillary data.. needed to receive ancillary data. Note that next > message data is not > valid unless the current message is completely read, i.e. the MSG_EOR > is set, in other words if you have more data to read from the current > message then no next message information will be available. > cmsg_level cmsg_type cmsg_data[] cmsg_level cmsg_type cmsg_data[] > ------------ ------------ ---------------------- ------------ > ------------ ---------------------- > IPPROTO_SCTP SCTP_SNDRCV struct sctp_sndrcvinfo IPPROTO_SCTP > SCTP_EXTRCV struct sctp_extrcvinfo > Here is the definition of sctp_sndrcvinfo: Here is the definition > of sctp_extrcvinfo > struct sctp_extrcvinfo { struct sctp_extrcvinfo { > uint16_t sinfo_stream; struct sctp_sndrcvinfo serinfo_sinfo; > uint16_t sinfo_ssn; uint16_t serinfo_next_flags; > uint16_t sinfo_flags; uint16_t serinfo_next_stream; > uint32_t sinfo_ppid; uint32_t serinfo_next_aid; > uint32_t sinfo_context; uint32_t serinfo_next_length; > uint32_t sinfo_timetolive; uint32_t serinfo_next_ppid; > uint32_t sinfo_tsn; > uint32_t sinfo_cumtsn; > sctp_assoc_t sinfo_assoc_id; > uint16_t next_flags; > uint16_t next_stream; > uint32_t next_asocid; > uint32_t next_length; > uint32_t next_ppid; > }; }; > sinfo_stream: 16 bits (unsigned integer) serinfo_sinfo: structure > For recvmsg() the SCTP stack places the message's stream number in > this value. For sendmsg() this value holds the stream number that > the application wishes to send this message to. If a sender > specifies an invalid stream number an error indication is returned > and the call fails. > sinfo_ssn: 16 bits (unsigned integer) > For recvmsg() this value contains the stream sequence number that the > remote endpoint placed in the DATA chunk. For fragmented messages > this is the same number for all deliveries of the message (if more > than one recvmsg() is needed to read the message). The sendmsg() > call will ignore this parameter. > sinfo_ppid: 32 bits (unsigned integer) > This value in sendmsg() is an unsigned integer that is passed to the > remote end in each user message. In recvmsg() this value is the same > information that was passed by the upper layer in the peer > application. Please note that the SCTP stack performs no byte order > modification of this field. For example, if the DATA chunk has to > contain a given value in network byte order, the SCTP user has to > perform the htonl() computation. > sinfo_context: 32 bits (unsigned integer) > This value is an opaque 32 bit context datum that is used in the > sendmsg() function. This value is passed back to the upper layer if > a error occurs on the send of a message and is retrieved with each > undelivered message (Note: if a endpoint has done multiple sends, all > of which fail, multiple different sinfo_context values will be > returned. One with each user data message). > sinfo_flags: 16 bits (unsigned integer) > This field may contain any of the following flags and is composed of > a bitwise OR of these values. > recvmsg() flags: > SCTP_UNORDERED - This flag is present when the message was sent non- > ordered. > sendmsg() flags: > SCTP_UNORDERED - This flag requests the un-ordered delivery of the > message. If this flag is clear the datagram is considered an > ordered send. > SCTP_ADDR_OVER - This flag, in the one-to-many style, requests the > SCTP stack to override the primary destination address with the > address found with the sendto/sendmsg call. > SCTP_ABORT - Setting this flag causes the specified association to > abort by sending an ABORT message to the peer (one-to-many style > only). The ABORT chunk will contain an error cause 'User > Initiated Abort' with cause code 12. The cause specific > information of this error cause is provided in msg_iov. > SCTP_EOF - Setting this flag invokes the SCTP graceful shutdown > procedures on the specified association. Graceful shutdown > assures that all data enqueued by both endpoints is successfully > transmitted before closing the association (one-to-many style > only). > SCTP_SENDALL - This flag, if set, will cause a one-to-many model > socket to send the message to all associations that are currently > established on this socket. For the one-to-one socket, this flag > has no effect. > SCTP_EOR - This flag, if set, will indicate that this send > terminates the record. > sinfo_timetolive: 32 bit (unsigned integer) > For the sending side, this field contains the message time to live in > milliseconds. The sending side will expire the message within the > specified time period if the message as not been sent to the peer > within this time period. This value will override any default value > set using any socket option. Also note that the value of 0 is > special in that it indicates no timeout should occur on this message. > sinfo_tsn: 32 bit (unsigned integer) > For the receiving side, this field holds a TSN that was assigned to > one of the SCTP Data Chunks. > sinfo_cumtsn: 32 bit (unsigned integer) > This field will hold the current cumulative TSN as known by the > underlying SCTP layer. Note this field is ignored when sending and > only valid for a receive operation when sinfo_flags are set to > SCTP_UNORDERED. > sinfo_assoc_id: sizeof (sctp_assoc_t) > The association handle field, sinfo_assoc_id, holds the identifier > for the association announced in the SCTP_COMM_UP notification. All > notifications for a given association have the same identifier. > Ignored for one-to-one style sockets. > A sctp_sndrcvinfo item always corresponds to the data in msg_iov. > Please see Section 5.2.2 for the details for this structure. > next_flags: 16 bit (unsigned integer) serinfo_next_flags: 16 bit > (unsigned integer) > This bitmask will hold one or more of the following values: This > bitmask will hold one or more of the following values: > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_AVAIL - This bit, when set to 1, indicates that next > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_AVAIL - This bit, when set to 1, indicates that next > message information is available i.e.: next_stream, next_asocid, > message information is available i.e.: next_stream, next_asocid, > next_length and next_ppid fields all have valid values. If this > next_length and next_ppid fields all have valid values. If this > bit is set to 0, then these fields are not valid and should be bit > is set to 0, then these fields are not valid and should be > ignored. ignored. > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_ISCOMPLETE - This bit, when set, indicates that the > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_ISCOMPLETE - This bit, when set, indicates that the > next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length > next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length > field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set > field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set > to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message > to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message > skipping to change at page 30, line 29 skipping to change at page > 28, line 22 > next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length > next message is completely in the receive buffer. The next_length > field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set > field thus contains the entire message size. If this flag is set > to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message > to 0, then the next_length field only contains part of the message > size since the message is still being received (it is being size > since the message is still being received (it is being > partially delivered). partially delivered). > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_IS_UNORDERED - This bit, when set, indicates that the > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_IS_UNORDERED - This bit, when set, indicates that the > next message to be received was sent by the peer as unordered. If > next message to be received was sent by the peer as unordered. If > this bit is not set (i.e the bit is 0) the next message to be read > this bit is not set (i.e the bit is 0) the next message to be read > is an ordered message in the stream specified. is an ordered > message in the stream specified. > SCTP_NEXT_MSG_IS_NOTIFICATION - This bit, when set, indicates that > the next message to be received is not a message from the peer, > but instead is a MSG_NOTIFICATION from the local SCTP stack. > next_stream: 16 bit (unsigned integer) serinfo_next_stream: 16 bit > (unsigned integer) > This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the next stream > This value, when valid (see sreinfo_next_flags), contains the next > number that will be received on a subsequent call to one of the > stream number that will be received on a subsequent call to one of > receive message functions. the receive message functions. > next_asocid: 32 bit (unsigned integer) serinfo_next_aid: 32 bit > (unsigned integer) > This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the next This > value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the next > association identification that will be received on a subsequent > call association identification that will be received on a > subsequent call > to one of the receive message functions. to one of the receive > message functions. > next_length: 32 bit (unsigned integer) sreinfo_next_length: 32 bit > (unsigned integer) > This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the length of the > This value, when valid (see sreinfo_next_flags), contains the length > next message that will be received on a subsequent call to one of > the of the next message that will be received on a subsequent call > to one > receive message functions. Note that this length may be a partial > of the receive message functions. Note that this length may be a > length depending on the settings of next_flags. partial length > depending on the settings of next_flags. > next_ppid: 32 bit (unsigned integer) sreinfo_next_ppid: 32 bit > (unsigned integer) > This value, when valid (see next_flags), contains the ppid of the > This value, when valid (see sreinfo_next_flags), contains the ppid of > next message that will be received on a subsequent call to one of > the the next message that will be received on a subsequent call to > one of > receive message functions. the receive message functions. > 5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications 5.3. SCTP Events and Notifications > An SCTP application may need to understand and process events and > An SCTP application may need to understand and process events and > errors that happen on the SCTP stack. These events include network > errors that happen on the SCTP stack. These events include network > status changes, association startups, remote operational errors and > status changes, association startups, remote operational errors and > undeliverable messages. All of these can be essential for the > undeliverable messages. All of these can be essential for the > application. application. > When an SCTP application layer does a recvmsg() the message read is > When an SCTP application layer does a recvmsg() the message read is > skipping to change at page 40, line 29 skipping to change at page > 38, line 10 > 5.3.1.7. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT 5.3.1.7. > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT > When a receiver is engaged in a partial delivery of a message this > When a receiver is engaged in a partial delivery of a message this > notification will be used to indicate various events. notification > will be used to indicate various events. > struct sctp_pdapi_event { struct sctp_pdapi_event { > uint16_t pdapi_type; uint16_t pdapi_type; > uint16_t pdapi_flags; uint16_t pdapi_flags; > uint32_t pdapi_length; uint32_t pdapi_length; > uint32_t pdapi_indication; uint32_t pdapi_indication; > uint32_t pdapi_stream; > uint32_t pdapi_seq; > sctp_assoc_t pdapi_assoc_id; sctp_assoc_t pdapi_assoc_id; > }; }; > pdapi_type pdapi_type > It should be SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT It should be > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT > pdapi_flags: 16 bits (unsigned integer) pdapi_flags: 16 bits > (unsigned integer) > Currently unused. Currently unused. > skipping to change at page 41, line 4 skipping to change at page > 38, line 35 > This field is the total length of the notification data, including > This field is the total length of the notification data, including > the notification header. It will generally be sizeof (struct the > notification header. It will generally be sizeof (struct > sctp_pdapi_event). sctp_pdapi_event). > pdapi_indication: 32 bits (unsigned integer) pdapi_indication: 32 > bits (unsigned integer) > This field holds the indication being sent to the application This > field holds the indication being sent to the application > possible values include: possible values include: > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORTED SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_ABORTED > pdapi_stream: 16 bits (unsigned integer) > This field holds the stream on which the partial delivery event > happened. > pdapi_seq: 16 bits (unsigned integer) > This field holds the stream sequence number which was being partially > delivered. > pdapi_assoc_id: sizeof (sctp_assoc_t) pdapi_assoc_id: sizeof > (sctp_assoc_t) > The association id field, holds the identifier for the association. > The association id field, holds the identifier for the association. > All notifications for a given association have the same association > All notifications for a given association have the same association > identifier. For one-to-one style socket, this field is ignored. > identifier. For one-to-one style socket, this field is ignored. > 5.3.1.8. SCTP_AUTHENTICATION_EVENT 5.3.1.8. SCTP_AUTHENTICATION_EVENT > When a receiver is using authentication this message will provide > When a receiver is using authentication this message will provide > notifications regarding new keys being made active as well as > errors. notifications regarding new keys being made active as well > as errors. > skipping to change at page 49, line 34 skipping to change at page > 47, line 34 > To access or modify these parameters, the application should call > To access or modify these parameters, the application should call > getsockopt or setsockopt() respectively with the option name > getsockopt or setsockopt() respectively with the option name > SCTP_RTOINFO. SCTP_RTOINFO. > 7.1.2. Association Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) 7.1.2. Association > Parameters (SCTP_ASSOCINFO) > This option is used to both examine and set various association and > This option is used to both examine and set various association and > endpoint parameters. endpoint parameters. > See RFC2960 [RFC2960] for more information on how this parameter is > See RFC2960 [RFC2960] for more information on how this parameter is > used. The peer address parameter is ignored for one-to-one style > used. The sasoc_assoc_id parameter is ignored for one-to-one style > socket. socket. > The following structure is used to access and modify this > parameters: The following structure is used to access and modify > this parameters: > struct sctp_assocparams { struct sctp_assocparams { > sctp_assoc_t sasoc_assoc_id; sctp_assoc_t sasoc_assoc_id; > uint16_t sasoc_asocmaxrxt; uint16_t sasoc_asocmaxrxt; > uint16_t sasoc_number_peer_destinations; uint16_t > sasoc_number_peer_destinations; > uint32_t sasoc_peer_rwnd; uint32_t sasoc_peer_rwnd; > uint32_t sasoc_local_rwnd; uint32_t sasoc_local_rwnd; > uint32_t sasoc_cookie_life; uint32_t sasoc_cookie_life; > uint32_t sasoc_sack_delay; > uint32_t sasoc_sack_freq; > }; }; > sasoc_asocmaxrxt - This contains the maximum retransmission > attempts sasoc_asocmaxrxt - This contains the maximum > retransmission attempts > to make for the association. to make for the association. > sasoc_number_peer_destinations - This is the number of destination > sasoc_number_peer_destinations - This is the number of destination > addresses that the peer has. addresses that the peer has. > sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd > sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd > (reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data > (reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data > inflight). inflight). > sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent > sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent > to the peer. to the peer. > sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used > sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used > when issuing cookies. when issuing cookies. > sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies > sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies > skipping to change at page 50, line 16 skipping to change at page > 48, line 17 > addresses that the peer has. addresses that the peer has. > sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd > sasoc_peer_rwnd - This holds the current value of the peers rwnd > (reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data > (reported in the last SACK) minus any outstanding data (i.e. data > inflight). inflight). > sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent > sasoc_local_rwnd - This holds the last reported rwnd that was sent > to the peer. to the peer. > sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used > sasoc_cookie_life - This is the associations cookie life value used > when issuing cookies. when issuing cookies. > sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies > sasoc_assoc_id - This is filled in the application, and identifies > the association for this query. the association for this query. > sasoc_sack_delay - This field holds the delayed sack timer value in > milliseconds. If the value is 0, then the delayed sack algorithm > is disabled. > sasoc_sack_freq - This field holds the number of packets that must > be received before a sack is transmitted when delayed sack is > enabled. > This information may be examined for either the endpoint or a This > information may be examined for either the endpoint or a > specific association. To examine a endpoints default parameters the > specific association. To examine a endpoints default parameters the > association id (sasoc_assoc_id) should must be set to the value > '0'. association id (sasoc_assoc_id) should must be set to the > value '0'. > The values of the sasoc_peer_rwnd is meaningless when examining The > values of the sasoc_peer_rwnd is meaningless when examining > endpoint information. endpoint information. > All parameters are time values, in milliseconds. A value of 0, when > All parameters are time values, in milliseconds. A value of 0, when > modifying the parameters, indicates that the current value should > not modifying the parameters, indicates that the current value > should not > be changed. be changed. > skipping to change at page 54, line 20 skipping to change at page > 52, line 21 > number of retransmissions sent before an address is considered > number of retransmissions sent before an address is considered > unreachable. The following structure is used to access and modify > an unreachable. The following structure is used to access and > modify an > address's parameters: address's parameters: > struct sctp_paddrparams { struct sctp_paddrparams { > sctp_assoc_t spp_assoc_id; sctp_assoc_t spp_assoc_id; > struct sockaddr_storage spp_address; struct sockaddr_storage > spp_address; > uint32_t spp_hbinterval; uint32_t spp_hbinterval; > uint16_t spp_pathmaxrxt; uint16_t spp_pathmaxrxt; > uint32_t spp_pathmtu; uint32_t spp_pathmtu; > uint32_t spp_sackdelay; > uint32_t spp_flags; uint32_t spp_flags; > uint32_t spp_ipv6_flowlabel; uint32_t spp_ipv6_flowlabel; > uint8_t spp_ipv4_tos; uint8_t spp_ipv4_tos; > }; }; > spp_assoc_id - (one-to-many style socket) This is filled in the > spp_assoc_id - (one-to-many style socket) This is filled in the > application, and identifies the association for this query. > application, and identifies the association for this query. > spp_address - This specifies which address is of interest. > spp_address - This specifies which address is of interest. > spp_hbinterval - This contains the value of the heartbeat interval, > spp_hbinterval - This contains the value of the heartbeat interval, > in milliseconds. Note that unless the spp_flag is set to in > milliseconds. Note that unless the spp_flag is set to > skipping to change at page 54, line 47 skipping to change at page > 52, line 47 > unless the spp_flag is set to SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE the value of this > unless the spp_flag is set to SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE the value of this > field is ignored. Note also that a value of zero indicates the > field is ignored. Note also that a value of zero indicates the > current setting should be left unchanged. current setting should be > left unchanged. > spp_pathmtu - When Path MTU discovery is disabled the value > spp_pathmtu - When Path MTU discovery is disabled the value > specified here will be the "fixed" path mtu (i.e. the value of the > specified here will be the "fixed" path mtu (i.e. the value of the > spp_flags field must include the flag SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE for this > spp_flags field must include the flag SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE for this > field to have any effect). Note that if the spp_address field is > field to have any effect). Note that if the spp_address field is > empty then all associations on this address will have this fixed > empty then all associations on this address will have this fixed > path mtu set upon them. If an address is specified, then only path > mtu set upon them. If an address is specified, then only > that address will be effected. that address will be effected. > spp_sackdelay - When delayed sack is enabled, this value specifies > the number of milliseconds that sacks will be delayed for. This > value will apply to all addresses of an association if the > spp_address field is empty. Note that unless the spp_flag is set > to SPP_SACKDELAY_ENABLE the value of this field is ignored. Note > also that a value of zero indicates the current setting should be > left unchanged. > spp_ipv6_flowlabel- This field is used in conjunction with the > spp_ipv6_flowlabel- This field is used in conjunction with the > SPP_IPV4_FLOWLABEL flag. SPP_IPV4_FLOWLABEL flag. > spp_ipv4_tos- This field is used in conjunction with the > spp_ipv4_tos- This field is used in conjunction with the > SPP_IPV4_TOS flag. SPP_IPV4_TOS flag. > spp_flags- These flags are used to control various features on an > spp_flags- These flags are used to control various features on an > association. The flag field is a bit mask which may contain zero > association. The flag field is a bit mask which may contain zero > or more of the following options: or more of the following options: > SPP_HB_ENABLE - Enable heartbeats on the specified address. Note > SPP_HB_ENABLE - Enable heartbeats on the specified address. Note > that if the address field is empty all addresses for the that if > the address field is empty all addresses for the > association have heartbeats enabled upon them. association have > heartbeats enabled upon them. > SPP_HB_DISABLE - Disable heartbeats on the specified address. > SPP_HB_DISABLE - Disable heartbeats on the specified address. > Note that if the address field is empty all addresses for the Note > that if the address field is empty all addresses for the > skipping to change at page 55, line 33 skipping to change at page > 53, line 31 > SPP_HB_TIME_IS_ZERO - Specify's that the time for heartbeat delay > SPP_HB_TIME_IS_ZERO - Specify's that the time for heartbeat delay > is to be set to the value of 0 milliseconds. is to be set to the > value of 0 milliseconds. > SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE - This field will enable PMTU discovery upon the > SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE - This field will enable PMTU discovery upon the > specified address. Note that if the address field is empty > specified address. Note that if the address field is empty > then all addresses on the association are effected. then all > addresses on the association are effected. > SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE - This field will disable PMTU discovery upon > SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE - This field will disable PMTU discovery upon > the specified address. Note that if the address field is empty the > specified address. Note that if the address field is empty > then all addresses on the association are effected. Not also then > all addresses on the association are effected. Not also > that SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE and SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE are mutually that > SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE and SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE are mutually > exclusive. Enabling both will have undetermined results. exclusive. > Enabling both will have undetermined results. > SPP_SACKDELAY_ENABLE - Setting this flag turns on delayed sack. > The time specified in spp_sackdelay is used to specify the sack > delay for this address. Note that if spp_address is empty then > all addresses will enable delayed sack and take on the sack > delay value specified in spp_sackdelay. > SPP_SACKDELAY_DISABLE - Setting this flag turns off delayed sack. > If the spp_address field is blank then delayed sack is disabled > for the entire association. Note also that this field is > mutually exclusive to SPP_SACKDELAY_ENABLE, setting both will > have undefined results. > SPP_IPV6_FLOWLABEL - Setting this flag enables setting of the > SPP_IPV6_FLOWLABEL - Setting this flag enables setting of the > IPV6 flowlabel value associated with either the association or IPV6 > flowlabel value associated with either the association or > the specific address. If the address field is filled in, then the > specific address. If the address field is filled in, then > the specific destination address has this value set upon it. the > specific destination address has this value set upon it. > If the association is specified, but not the address, then the If > the association is specified, but not the address, then the > flowlabel value is set for any future destination addresses > flowlabel value is set for any future destination addresses > that may be added. The value is obtained in the that may be added. > The value is obtained in the > spp_ipv6_flowlabel field. spp_ipv6_flowlabel field. > Upon retrieval, this flag will be set to indicate that the Upon > retrieval, this flag will be set to indicate that the > skipping to change at page 57, line 16 skipping to change at page > 55, line 4 > This socket option is used to specify various notifications and > This socket option is used to specify various notifications and > ancillary data the user wishes to receive. Please see Section 7.3) > ancillary data the user wishes to receive. Please see Section 7.3) > for a full description of this option and its usage. for a full > description of this option and its usage. > 7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped addresses > (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) 7.1.16. Set/clear IPv4 mapped > addresses (SCTP_I_WANT_MAPPED_V4_ADDR) > This socket option is a boolean flag which turns on or off mapped > V4 This socket option is a boolean flag which turns on or off > mapped V4 > addresses. If this option is turned on and the socket is type > addresses. If this option is turned on and the socket is type > PF_INET6, then IPv4 addresses will be mapped to V6 representation. > PF_INET6, then IPv4 addresses will be mapped to V6 representation. > If this option is turned off, then no mapping will be done of V4 If > this option is turned off, then no mapping will be done of V4 > addresses and a user will receive both PF_INET6 and PF_INET type > addresses and a user will receive both PF_INET6 and PF_INET type > addresses on the socket. addresses on the socket. > By default this option is turned on and expects an integer to be By > default this option is turned on and expects an integer to be > passed where non-zero turns on the option and zero turns off the > passed where non-zero turns on the option and zero turns off the > option. option. > 7.1.17. Set the maximum fragmentation size (SCTP_MAXSEG) 7.1.17. > Get or set the maximum fragmentation size (SCTP_MAXSEG) > This socket option specifies the maximum size to put in any > outgoing This options will get or set the maximum size to put in > any outgoing > SCTP DATA chunk. If a message is larger than this size it will be > SCTP DATA chunk. If a message is larger than this size it will be > fragmented by SCTP into the specified size. Note that the > underlying fragmented by SCTP into the specified size. Note that > the underlying > SCTP implementation may fragment into smaller sized chunks when the > SCTP implementation may fragment into smaller sized chunks when the > PMTU of the underlying association is smaller than the value set by > PMTU of the underlying association is smaller than the value set by > the user. The option expects an integer. the user. The default > value for this option is '0' which indicates > the user is NOT limiting fragmentation and only the PMTU will effect > SCTP's choice of DATA chunk size. > The default value for this option is '0' which indicates the user > is struct sctp_assoc_value { > NOT limiting fragmentation and only the PMTU will effect SCTP's > sctp_assoc_t assoc_id; > choice of DATA chunk size. uint32_t assoc_value; > }; > assoc_id - This parameter, indicates which association the user is > performing an action upon. Note that if this field's value is > zero then the endpoints default value is changed (effecting future > associations only). > assoc_value - This parameter specifies the maximum size in bytes. > 7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) > 7.1.18. Add a chunk that must be authenticated (SCTP_AUTH_CHUNK) > This option adds a chunk type that the user is requesting to be > This option adds a chunk type that the user is requesting to be > received only in an authenticated way. Changes to the list of > chunks received only in an authenticated way. Changes to the list > of chunks > will only effect future associations on the socket. will only > effect future associations on the socket. > struct sctp_authchunk { struct sctp_authchunk { > uint8_t sauth_chunk; uint8_t sauth_chunk; > }; }; > skipping to change at page 60, line 37 skipping to change at page > 58, line 37 > performing an action upon. Note that if this field's value is > performing an action upon. Note that if this field's value is > zero then the endpoints default value is changed (effecting future > zero then the endpoints default value is changed (effecting future > associations only). associations only). > assoc_value - This parameter contains the number of milliseconds > assoc_value - This parameter contains the number of milliseconds > that the user is requesting the delayed ACK timer be set to. Note > that the user is requesting the delayed ACK timer be set to. Note > that this value is defined in the standard to be between 200 and > that this value is defined in the standard to be between 200 and > 500 milliseconds. 500 milliseconds. > 7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) > 7.1.24. Get or set fragmented interleave (SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE) > This options will at a minimum specify if the implementation is > doing Fragmented interleave controls how the presentation of messages > fragmented interleave. Fragmented interleave, for a one to many > occurs for the message receiver. There are three levels of fragment > socket, is when subsequent calls to receive a message may return > interleave defined. Two of the levels effect the one-to-one model, > parts of messages from different associations. Some implementations > while the one-to-many model is effected by all three levels. > may allow you to turn this value on or off. If so, when turned off, > no fragment interleave will occur (which will cause a head of line > blocking amongst multiple associations sharing the same one to many > socket). When this option is turned on, then each receive call may > come from a different association (thus the user must receive data > with the extended calls (e.g. sctp_recvmsg) to keep track of which > association each receive belongs to. > This option takes a boolean value. A non-zero value indicates that > This option takes an integer value. It can be set to a value of 0, 1 > fragmented interleave is on. A value of zero indicates that or 2. > Attempting to set this level to other values will return an > fragmented interleave is off. error. > Note that it is important that an implementation that allows this > Setting the three levels provides the following receiver > option to be turned on, have it off by default. Otherwise an > unaware interactions: > application using the one to many model may become confused and act > incorrectly. level 0 - Prevents the interleaving of any messages. > This means > that when a partial delivery begins, no other messages will be > received except the message being partially delivered. If another > message arrives on a different stream (or association) that could > be delivered, it will be blocked waiting for the user to read all > of the partially delivered message. > level 1 - Allows interleaving of messages that are of differing > association identifications. For the one-to-one model, level 0 > and level 1 thus have the same meaning since a one-to-one socket > always receives messages from the same association. Note that > setting the one-to-many model to this level may cause multiple > partial delivers from different associations but for any given > association, only one message will be delivered until all parts of > a message have been delivered. This means that one large message, > being read with an association identification of "X", will block > other messages from association "X" from being delivered. > level 2 - Allows complete interleaving of messages. This level > requires that the sender carefully observe not only the peer > association identification (or address) but also must pay careful > attention to the stream number. With this option enabled a > partially delivered message may begin being delivered for > association "X" stream "Y" and the next subsequent receive may > return a message from association "X" stream "Z". Note that no > other messages would be delivered for association "X" stream "Y" > until all of stream "Y"'s partially delivered message was read. > Note that this option also effects the one-to-one model. Also > note that for the one-to-many model not only may another streams > message from the same association be delivered from the next > receive, some other associations message may be delivered upon the > next receive. > An implementation should default the one-to-many model to level 1. > The reason for this is that otherwise it is possible that a peer > could begin sending a partial message and thus block all other peers > from sending data. However a setting of level 2 requires the > application to not only be aware of the association (via the > association id or peers address) but also the stream number. The > stream number is NOT present unless the user has subscribed to the > sctp_data_io_events (see Section 7.3). This is also why we recommend > that the one-to-one model be defaulted to level 0 (level 1 for the > one-to-one model has no effect). Note that an implementation should > return an error if a application attempts to set the level to 2 and > has NOT subscribed to the sctp_data_io_events. > 7.1.25. Set or Get the sctp partial delivery point 7.1.25. Set or > Get the sctp partial delivery point > (SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) (SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT) > This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This > This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This > point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will > be point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API > will be > invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a > invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a > lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. The > lower value will cause partial deliveries to happen more often. The > calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery > calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery > point. point. Note also that the call will fail if the user > attempts to set > this value larger than the socket receive buffer size. > Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery > will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user > provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. > 7.1.26. Set or Get the use of extended receive info 7.1.26. Set or > Get the use of extended receive info > (SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) (SCTP_USE_EXT_RCVINFO) > This option will enable or disable the use of the extended version > of This option will enable or disable the use of the extended > version of > the sctp_sndrcvinfo structure. If this option is disabled, then the > the sctp_sndrcvinfo structure. If this option is disabled, then the > normal sctp_sndrcvinfo structure is returned in all receive message > normal sctp_sndrcvinfo structure is returned in all receive message > calls. If this option is enabled then the sctp_extrcvinfo structure > calls. If this option is enabled then the sctp_extrcvinfo structure > is returned in all receive message calls. is returned in all > receive message calls. > skipping to change at page 87, line 7 skipping to change at page > 86, line 7 > Michael Tuexen Michael Tuexen > Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster Univ. of Applied Sciences Muenster > Stegerwaldstr. 39 Stegerwaldstr. 39 > 48565 Steinfurt 48565 Steinfurt > Germany Germany > Email: tuexen@fh-muenster.de Email: tuexen@fh-muenster.de > Full Copyright Statement Full Copyright Statement > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2006). Copyright (C) The IETF Trust > (2007). > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > retain all their rights. retain all their rights. > This document and the information contained herein are provided on > an This document and the information contained herein are provided > on an > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE > REPRESENTS "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/ > SHE REPRESENTS > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST > AND OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF > TRUST AND > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, > EXPRESS THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL > WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE > OF OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE > USE OF > End of changes. > > This html diff was produced by rfcdiff 1.23, available from http:// > www.levkowetz.com/ietf/tools/rfcdiff/ From bidulock@openss7.org Sat Apr 21 10:51:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfGw2-0000G8-Uk for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:51:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfGw1-00026I-M9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:51:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 10:51:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LEpWh5023616; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:51:32 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LEojlG025029; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:50:45 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LEljJ7015365 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:47:45 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LEljjL015361 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:47:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to bidulock@openss7.org using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 142.179.199.224 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CADjBKUaOs8fg/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54377056:sNHT18160389" Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:44:17 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Randall Stewart CC: Mark Butler , Anders Torger , Kacheong Poon , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC Message-Id: <20070421084417.A31973@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com>; from rrs@cisco.com on Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 07:40:03AM -0400 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ DSN-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=bidulock@openss7.org; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Randall, On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Randall Stewart wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > > Anders Torger wrote: > > > >> It seems to me that for SCTP (since we have partial delivery) the only > >> time I will ever receive MSG_TRUNC is for an aborted partial delivery. > >> This is good if it is true, because it makes the case easy to handle. > >> > >> Thus, for an aborted partial delivery I would simply look for > >> MSG_TRUNC, I don't need to check for MSG_EOR in that case if I don't > >> want to. > >> > >> Additionally, I think it also would be possible that recvmsg() returns > >> > 0 and MSG_TRUNC as well? > >> > >> > > If the convention were adopted, yes. Some applications might benefit > > from getting the remainder of a partial message, but it would likely be > > implementation dependent whether any such data was available. > > > >> Would this example code work today (Solaris, Linux my primary > >> interests), or do we have to listen to the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT > >> to catch this case? > >> > >> > > No. I don't think anyone implements this yet. > > > > - Mark B. > > > Actually you are incorrect ;-) > > BSD supports the pd-api event.. And by the way it also > supports sending a MSG_TRUNC with the last bit of data > being read. I believe there has to be data though.. OpenSS7 sockets stack returns MSG_TRUNC on aborted partial delivery. If data has already been written to the user on the call at the time of the abort, read(), recv(), recvfrom(), recvmsg() return non-zero. If the user was blocked at the time of the abort and not data was yet transferred, read(), recv(), recvfrom(), recvmsg() return 0, (recvmsg() with MSG_TRUNC set). So I think Anders' code will work as is. --brian -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From torger@ludd.ltu.se Sat Apr 21 11:28:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfHVp-0001fT-QT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:28:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfHVo-00030Z-Hs for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:28:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 11:28:31 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LFSV1o030961; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:28:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LFS2lG000281; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:28:02 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LFR7M8015915 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:27:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LFR7ix015911 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:27:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIfJKUbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81888243:sNHT38772180" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:15:34 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704211715.34571.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Randall, I don't agree with the d)-restriction. The only case when I find SCTP_EXTRCV really useful is actually when *in* partial delivery, and thus do not have the MSG_EOR flag set. If I'm about to read a new message into a buffer, I generally don't need to know which association/stream/order(on|off) it belongs to. My receive buffer is just a generic message buffer, and after reading it I put the association/stream/order(on|off) 'stamp' on it, and pass it along to the upper layers. I guess one can come up with a case where it indeed is useful, say if one would have static buffers one per associotian/stream/order(on|off) or something so one needs to know into which buffer the message should be put in advance. This is what happens when in partial delivery -- I think it is a very common case that the application wants to put an SCTP message in contiguous memory. When continuing on the message, I would want to point out the proper offset into my receive buffer with the half-read message to recvmsg(), such that recvmsg() will put the rest of the message there without having to copy memory around. If I have SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE on 2 (the new option), which I would because I don't like head-of-line blocking, the next data I get may belong to another stream, and I would have to move the data to the appropriate buffer. If SCTP_EXTRCV provides next info for all reads, I could minimize these wrong guesses and thus improve performance. Even with the MSG_EOR restriction, I guess that if unordered data is received by the stack before I do the next recvmsg() call, I could get that unordered data instead of what SCTP_EXTRCV said I would. As long as the programmer knows that it is not an absolute guarantee, but something to improve the guess of which buffer that should be provided to recvmsg(), I think it is ok. /Anders Torger On Saturday 21 April 2007 13:47, Randall Stewart wrote: > Dear all: > > I have attached the rfc-diff of the -14 to the upcoming > -15 changes. > > I made all the changes on the plane as discussed previously. > There are some other changes in here that Michael did a ways > back I believe.. he can comment on those.. > > The big things I added were: > > a) The changes to the PD-API event > b) The mega-changes to the Fragment_interleave > c) Kacheong's typos > d) A restriction, that I felt made sense, that you don't > get the extinfo unless you have a MSG_EOR. The stack > will only assure what your next msg is if and only > if you are fully consuming the present message. This > makes sense to me :-D > > Michaels changes I believe had to do with the MAXSEG option.. > > R From torger@ludd.ltu.se Sat Apr 21 11:41:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfHiQ-0007dk-ID for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:41:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfHiP-0007CU-Aq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:41:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 11:41:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LFfWlJ000881; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:41:32 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LFfFGd001022; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:41:15 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LFeXmq016093 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:40:33 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LFeXpP016089 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:40:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPnMKUbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,435,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81892266:sNHT192858552" From: Anders Torger To: bidulock@openss7.org Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:28:53 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <20070421084417.A31973@openss7.org> In-Reply-To: <20070421084417.A31973@openss7.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704211728.53879.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 On Saturday 21 April 2007 16:44, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > OpenSS7 sockets stack returns MSG_TRUNC on aborted partial delivery. > If data has already been written to the user on the call at the time > of the abort, read(), recv(), recvfrom(), recvmsg() return non-zero. > If the user was blocked at the time of the abort and not data was yet > transferred, read(), recv(), recvfrom(), recvmsg() return 0, > (recvmsg() with MSG_TRUNC set). > > So I think Anders' code will work as is. Except for one thing... if ((msg.msg_flags & MSG_TRUNC) == 0) ^^ should of course be !=, or like true C hackers want it, just if (msg.msg_flags & MSG_TRUNC) ..but I kind of like to have a comparison there. I have a tendency to put in the wrong logical operator though... I guess that's why I'm doing design rather than coding these days :-) /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Sat Apr 21 13:23:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfJJ7-0004qd-Ir for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:23:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfJJ6-00058K-BF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:23:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 13:23:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LHNVjS013517; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:23:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LHMllG016986; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:22:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LHLBf6017613 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:21:11 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LHLB2C017609 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:21:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="138847044:sNHT51167997" Message-Id: <462A489C.3020406@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:23:40 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2007 17:21:01.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[6F23FBE0:01C78439] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=802; t=1177176212; x=1178040212; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=U5ZWSwOFiPJZMzvXjkIPESPnG/kXGHswykXGbdT/fYI=; b=rX2buUc9bsH1KCEuJvAmDatxL1nDIXyd54OTg35wtfJoKJgRIS5gXRDuRXxph79oyLh9y1iY bj5ROpIEPdWG4lrGpNU/0Fq5VuD2N1CbxifyB6hXU9RXksqFrjMlbEdC; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=802; t=1177176069; x=1178040069; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20; bh=U5ZWSwOFiPJZMzvXjkIPESPnG/kXGHswykXGbdT/fYI=; b=SbZVw8dW4tc38cmIdc6DGiUfp0ugTy9GKrvDuT68RFt6iernqSNn5CFNHtAMpQAJqZTpEN8F XsQxgvm0YEKwXJHauCPHIKtYeaf8b6IpW7JuXZyICO3kugdS/kx/yiKg; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Michael: Wasn't there also a change to SCTP_MAXSEG to take an assoc/value pair? R Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Randy, > > I just changed the text for the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT from] > > Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery > will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user > provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. > > to > > Note that any single message having a length smaller than or equal to > the SCTP partial delivery point will be delivered in one single read > call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold the > message. > > Just a change of wording... > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sat Apr 21 13:29:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfJOz-0004Nl-5U for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:29:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfJOw-0006ph-PD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:29:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 13:29:35 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LHTXUk021402; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:29:33 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LHTPGd016865; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:29:25 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LHT1BQ017700 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:29:01 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LHT1gA017696 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:29:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="138848367:sNHT58101831" Message-Id: <462A4A75.3070506@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:31:33 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors , Preethi Natarajan Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <200704211715.34571.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704211715.34571.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2007 17:28:55.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[8992D720:01C7843A] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4011; t=1177176574; x=1178040574; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=SVU2khx9GmbFeUcj+FLUKq0LiXC8vNbRXRA4ZXJqVZo=; b=cgJEutPkDLFo+ZgU9Yba0IZ4lEP4AX4jMkLU0Bk55XLTXPxpo7VSLCdLJg0zNmcox66BIQRF xsPKstGipFk/72NotmDIqf8v/hL1tm5aFyVP4aoIUfgnmv01KNCT5EkI; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4011; t=1177176539; x=1178040539; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20; bh=SVU2khx9GmbFeUcj+FLUKq0LiXC8vNbRXRA4ZXJqVZo=; b=CUEa4QNKqpuWi+X8Sz4k+ZEXLInzLMYvpga5H3SArHMtRsqO7gHS3udSyyjjX1WAuAYr9j2e 2OBNeTxJJamuXl4C6cOXFC05IIUJUeIWYNkvvQDAP2d5lwlNsF0sfBt5; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Anders Torger wrote: > Randall, > > I don't agree with the d)-restriction. The only case when I find > SCTP_EXTRCV really useful is actually when *in* partial delivery, and > thus do not have the MSG_EOR flag set. It was added at the suggestion of Preethi Natarajan at U-D.. I believe she was doing web over SCTP.. and she wanted to know where the next read msg was coming from to sync her rendering engine .. And I don't believe the msg unit she sent was ever in PD-API at all. > > If I'm about to read a new message into a buffer, I generally don't need > to know which association/stream/order(on|off) it belongs to. My > receive buffer is just a generic message buffer, and after reading it I > put the association/stream/order(on|off) 'stamp' on it, and pass it > along to the upper layers. Which means you would never need the extended rcv-info structure .. at least not for what it was intended.. aka a pre-look at what is coming. I guess one can come up with a case where it > indeed is useful, say if one would have static buffers one per > associotian/stream/order(on|off) or something so one needs to know into > which buffer the message should be put in advance. Preethi? How are you using this with your web work? > > This is what happens when in partial delivery -- I think it is a very > common case that the application wants to put an SCTP message in > contiguous memory. When continuing on the message, I would want to > point out the proper offset into my receive buffer with the half-read > message to recvmsg(), such that recvmsg() will put the rest of the > message there without having to copy memory around. So then why would you be: a) either setting the PD-API point down to a low value so you get partially delivered messages. b) Not supplying a big enough buffer to read into.. Since if you don't change the PD-API point unless you are dealing with msg's that are well over 1/2 your socket read buffer size, you won't get PD-API msgs.. and if you are reading contiguous msgs' why would you not supply a whole msg buffer to read into? If I have > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE on 2 (the new option), which I would because I > don't like head-of-line blocking, the next data I get may belong to > another stream, and I would have to move the data to the appropriate > buffer. If SCTP_EXTRCV provides next info for all reads, I could > minimize these wrong guesses and thus improve performance. Hmm I see your point.. but it seems to me you would rarely get partial delivery points anyway.. :-D > > Even with the MSG_EOR restriction, I guess that if unordered data is > received by the stack before I do the next recvmsg() call, I could get > that unordered data instead of what SCTP_EXTRCV said I would. As long > as the programmer knows that it is not an absolute guarantee, but > something to improve the guess of which buffer that should be provided > to recvmsg(), I think it is ok. ok R > > /Anders Torger > > On Saturday 21 April 2007 13:47, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Dear all: >> >> I have attached the rfc-diff of the -14 to the upcoming >> -15 changes. >> >> I made all the changes on the plane as discussed previously. >> There are some other changes in here that Michael did a ways >> back I believe.. he can comment on those.. >> >> The big things I added were: >> >> a) The changes to the PD-API event >> b) The mega-changes to the Fragment_interleave >> c) Kacheong's typos >> d) A restriction, that I felt made sense, that you don't >> get the extinfo unless you have a MSG_EOR. The stack >> will only assure what your next msg is if and only >> if you are fully consuming the present message. This >> makes sense to me :-D >> >> Michaels changes I believe had to do with the MAXSEG option.. >> >> R > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From dwmagicinterfacem@magicinterface.com Sat Apr 21 15:16:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfL4Q-0006Rs-Lz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:16:30 -0400 Received: from adsl-ull-4-190.42-151.net24.it ([151.42.190.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfL4P-0000ax-2D; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:16:30 -0400 Received: from 64.28.32.218 (HELO mail.magicinterface.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (>UI,@P X-Mailer: The Bat! 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From butlerm@middle.net Sat Apr 21 15:40:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfLS4-0003Xh-AY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:40:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfLS3-0005Pj-2s for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:40:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 15:40:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LJesx3006687; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:40:54 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LJe5Gd005494; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 19:40:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LJcrx9019440 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:38:53 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LJcrNJ019436 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:38:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAGwFKkamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81956644:sNHT25378029" Message-Id: <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:29:32 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Randall Stewart wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >> >>> It seems to me that for SCTP (since we have partial delivery) the >>> only time I will ever receive MSG_TRUNC is for an aborted partial >>> delivery. This is good if it is true, because it makes the case easy >>> to handle. >>> >>> Thus, for an aborted partial delivery I would simply look for >>> MSG_TRUNC, I don't need to check for MSG_EOR in that case if I don't >>> want to. >> >> ... >> >>> Would this example code work today (Solaris, Linux my primary >>> interests), or do we have to listen to the >>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT to catch this case? >> > ... > > BSD supports the pd-api event.. And by the way it also > supports sending a MSG_TRUNC with the last bit of data > being read. I believe there has to be data though. I am glad to hear there are a couple of precedents. Does anyone see a problem with returning MSG_TRUNC (and MSG_EOR) with a zero length read when necessary? That would certainly be the usual case. - Mark B. From butlerm@middle.net Sat Apr 21 16:49:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfMW8-0007VX-Dl for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:49:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfMW6-000089-64 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:49:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Apr 2007 16:49:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3LKn9dn024550; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:49:09 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LKmolG014833; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:48:50 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3LKmFsJ020348 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:48:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3LKmFMo020344 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:48:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FANQVKkamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="81972475:sNHT24132636" Message-Id: <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:48:21 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors Subject: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Michael Tuexen wrote: > I just changed the text for the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT from] > > Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery > will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user > provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. > > to > > Note that any single message having a length smaller than or equal to > the SCTP partial delivery point will be delivered in one single read > call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold the > message. I do not recall the discussion on this point, but I don't think this is a promise that can be kept in all cases. Atomic read semantics are attractive, but I don't think they can be provided for relatively arbitrary message sizes without risking deadlock. And even if deadlock can be avoided, this type of guarantee greatly complicates buffer management on the implementation side of things, so code that depends on it is not likely to be portable in any case. So I suggest that this paragraph be deleted. Does anyone have an argument for why this guarantee should remain? - Mark B. 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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78470.A03463A0-- From millineryqe@mail.light.ge.com Sun Apr 22 01:04:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfUFm-0002vf-Hz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 01:04:50 -0400 Received: from dsl51b64a16.pool.t-online.hu ([81.182.74.22] helo=mail.light.ge.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfUFj-0001vI-1y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 01:04:50 -0400 Message-ID: <098e01c78505$3cda39f0$2940d5c0@lpomonaa> Reply-To: "Leannexuf Burch" From: "Leannexuf Burch" To: Subject: In phyla Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:04:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_00D4C96A.B91C0AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00D4C96A.B91C0AB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_00D4C96A.B91C0AB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_00D4C96A.B91C0AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered 5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost another source, spokeswoman Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein. following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. daily in Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered ------=_NextPart_001_0002_00D4C96A.B91C0AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered
= daily in Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani3Dalerted =
5.3 oz. foil pouch cat and dog wet food products made by Menu Foods but sold
=

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the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost another source, spokeswoman Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein. following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. daily in Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered
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------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C784E7.D17F9660-- From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Sun Apr 22 04:02:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfX29-0006PZ-0V for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:02:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfWyd-00022S-Dd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 03:59:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2007 03:59:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3M7xG4H010821; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 03:59:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3M7vQGd014738; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:57:26 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3M7rpMv029618 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 03:53:52 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3M7rpAs029614 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 03:53:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJGxKkbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQCwEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82100998:sNHT24580962" In-Reply-To: <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> CC: SCTP Implementors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:51:48 +0200 To: Mark Butler X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Hi Mark, we discussed this a while ago. I do see the case that a kernel can not guarantee this. But the kernel can always fail the setsockopt() call. It is intended for writing applications, where you know that all messages are small and that you have, for instance, the 1-to-1 socket API. Then you do not have to write code to reassemble messages in the user application. Best regards Michael On Apr 21, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Mark Butler wrote: > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> I just changed the text for the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT from] >> >> Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial >> delivery >> will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the >> user >> provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. >> >> to >> >> Note that any single message having a length smaller than or >> equal to >> the SCTP partial delivery point will be delivered in one single >> read >> call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to >> hold the >> message. > > I do not recall the discussion on this point, but I don't think > this is a promise that can be kept in all cases. Atomic read > semantics are attractive, but I don't think they can be provided > for relatively arbitrary message sizes without risking deadlock. > And even if deadlock can be avoided, this type of guarantee greatly > complicates buffer management on the implementation side of things, > so code that depends on it is not likely to be portable in any case. > > So I suggest that this paragraph be deleted. Does anyone have an > argument for why this guarantee should remain? > > - Mark B. > From torger@ludd.ltu.se Sun Apr 22 04:34:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfXWw-00073R-Pf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:34:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfXWv-000419-IL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:34:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2007 04:34:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3M8YiMP032472; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:34:44 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3M8YXlG015701; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:34:33 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3M8Y65w007056 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:34:06 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3M8Y6t5007052 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:34:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPu6KkbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82110115:sNHT22583736" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Dynamic data in notifications Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:22:24 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 I have a few questions about the dynamic data in the notifications: sac_info in SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE, when it has the abort chunk, will it contain the type and length fields of it, or just the error codes? The same question applies to SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR sre_data. For the SCTP_SEND_FAILED event, it says that ssf_data contains: "The undelivered message, exactly as delivered by the caller to the original send*() call." If a large message has been sent using partial sending, how much of the message will be returned? The first or the last fragment sent? /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Sun Apr 22 06:55:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZir-0005A8-BK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:55:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZir-0008FM-1f for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:55:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2007 06:55:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3MAtC1R021429; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:55:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3MAsjlG002546; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:54:45 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3MAqxto009197 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:53:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3MAqxVd009193 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:52:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="414282020:sNHT45948228" Message-Id: <462B3F25.90100@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:55:33 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2007 10:52:56.0105 (UTC) FILETIME=[62517990:01C784CC] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1545; t=1177239312; x=1178103312; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Dynamic=20data=20in=20notifications |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=FqhaBNOpCOHKamQ6OHjQxRmQ138Z8OnjL0kIVF2cIFo=; b=Z+OT3OJ7cLbAQ5dVrqIoPZB65HzHY75odAunLz0tn4s1xOfP2ofzUSk2DVw3qifY6EWa0syG 7GR5y0M9YrMrheT+wcmst6K1lMBtyi5Z7H4YmMLbfa5W12U0tk+aU04z; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1545; t=1177239177; x=1178103177; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Dynamic=20data=20in=20notifications |Sender:=20; bh=FqhaBNOpCOHKamQ6OHjQxRmQ138Z8OnjL0kIVF2cIFo=; b=D3ARa3IV8e3pu+ikxKJl+zP9x4KjzPAgEFx6PQcvBYUlwElxTgQPPwJk8L8yCHS5dwHpiEF3 6E4agjiE+hi0UOUAzFbg1RyAxIm8LuxeN2NBszRl190KXh53+WB64j+i; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Anders Torger wrote: > I have a few questions about the dynamic data in the notifications: > > sac_info in SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE, when it has the abort chunk, will it > contain the type and length fields of it, or just the error codes? Hmm.. you should get the error cause/error message that came in an abort.. and any user specified info (if it was passed). Some stacks also will include a protocol-violation code and some internal numbering that indicates where in their stack the abort came from... So there will be a type/length/data type thing here if available .. but it may not be from the other end user app .. unless the cause is USER_INITIATED_ABORT. > > The same question applies to SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR sre_data. This should be quite rare.. but if you do get one it will include the error cause and error number.. in the type/length value format.. > > For the SCTP_SEND_FAILED event, it says that ssf_data contains: > > "The undelivered message, exactly as delivered by the caller to the > original send*() call." > > If a large message has been sent using partial sending, how much of the > message will be returned? The first or the last fragment sent? Well.. I cannot speak for other stacks. BSD literally gives you all of the message. Which means if you don't provide enough space to read it in.. you get a PD-API scenario.. and no MSG_EOR on the first read.. :-D R > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sun Apr 22 06:56:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZk9-0005ZV-Ri for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:56:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZk8-0000KB-Ji for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:56:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2007 06:56:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3MAuVCs014039; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:56:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3MAuKlG002750; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:56:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3MAuBmO009280 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:56:11 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3MAuBSn009276 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:56:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="371382959:sNHT48153948" Message-Id: <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:58:37 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2007 10:56:03.0616 (UTC) FILETIME=[D2156200:01C784CC] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1717; t=1177239392; x=1178103392; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=Hus/T5xoxoQQgZbrGFihWLo2jv2EYR6W9O5oO6SETpE=; b=eZU97WyMyjvGEgNrcCusEZsv5XlvffKbIRat8DVkLbJ6Qr40h+IEUGnGMSA5xKzuNOtWIFlu 1dYkhINjqYgp64pxJUmc6KPGkOHzqYUPEjXixh5B1nK/zi7ZX09ZKPq5; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1717; t=1177239368; x=1178103368; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC |Sender:=20; bh=Hus/T5xoxoQQgZbrGFihWLo2jv2EYR6W9O5oO6SETpE=; b=HwGLQVU/0FPLvSBWPYw6LgmEy4GWbf1Sw4tWTkwE0eOV+OZqs4bh+h0l8/2H/Nb4543eJVvG C3vpm2vwH94U51GY8PGTuURWA+m1gCK6a+KJ7MmxwnwCcFafMyk9dsvafZe6GDEpN6VUmAxlM2 sZQZuPAUvq+QqwM9gAc46FWcQ=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Mark Butler wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>> >>>> It seems to me that for SCTP (since we have partial delivery) the >>>> only time I will ever receive MSG_TRUNC is for an aborted partial >>>> delivery. This is good if it is true, because it makes the case easy >>>> to handle. >>>> >>>> Thus, for an aborted partial delivery I would simply look for >>>> MSG_TRUNC, I don't need to check for MSG_EOR in that case if I don't >>>> want to. >>> >>> ... >>> >>>> Would this example code work today (Solaris, Linux my primary >>>> interests), or do we have to listen to the >>>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT to catch this case? >>> >> ... >> >> BSD supports the pd-api event.. And by the way it also >> supports sending a MSG_TRUNC with the last bit of data >> being read. I believe there has to be data though. > > I am glad to hear there are a couple of precedents. > > Does anyone see a problem with returning MSG_TRUNC (and MSG_EOR) with a > zero length read when necessary? That would certainly be the usual case. > - Mark B. > The only issue I would think on this is that many apps (as you said) consider a 0 length read to mean you get no more data from the peer.. This would usually be the case if a PD-API is aborted.. due to the peer itself aborted/shutdown. However the case where this event got added was for the PR_SCTP feature. If you have a partially reliable message it could get "skipped" via timeout etc. In such a case, the read returns 0 does NOT mean the peer has gone away... don't know if this will confuse apps or not. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sun Apr 22 07:43:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfaTm-0004QA-7d for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:43:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfaTl-0001kt-Vo for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:43:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2007 07:43:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3MBhfpo021577; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:43:41 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3MBh6Gd012972; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:43:06 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3MBg0pV009923 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:42:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3MBg09c009919 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:42:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="371383940:sNHT49477256" Message-Id: <462B4AA0.60800@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:44:32 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Newmarch CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS and one-to-one sockets References: <579ea40b0704190512g4b41992frb913310253fc792d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704190512g4b41992frb913310253fc792d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2007 11:41:57.0788 (UTC) FILETIME=[3BB2ADC0:01C784D3] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2416; t=1177242221; x=1178106221; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS=20and=20one-to-one=20sockets |Sender:=20 |To:=20Jan=20Newmarch=20; bh=Gl7ZoBgt7kyHH0WXzJfx6x8WTXIAg8QyrFVIb4KVe28=; b=ZK8A5dsYM7kutS+ctwzTGfu6WaHNj8D9K/Esqukj5e5cnDrVtYysg+1GPyFGElx+5OSHkrrf 6j22601DcZ5c4RrCkFuAC4gzs5UgFvUrZn4yeYo203TZnGfIeVgBIZ5A; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2416; t=1177242118; x=1178106118; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS=20and=20one-to-one=20sockets |Sender:=20; bh=Gl7ZoBgt7kyHH0WXzJfx6x8WTXIAg8QyrFVIb4KVe28=; b=RcV6orBy7JaMuaT4+P0vPqtBvu9tyE0Wvym33yDxSjNDBpFy3KwGRx22klnVItGSuelnxoCx 7BTfxBJPXwTsGWhCRQTSXxBAmw8cPO6orSbhUH0ntjtSl90+DTwsJkFD; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Jan Newmarch wrote: > Hi > > The Stevens book in Figure 23.13 gives code using sctp_opt_info(... > SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS ...) to find the association id directly rather > than monitoring association events. I presume this code works under > BSD since that seems to have been the author's test environment. But > it doesn't work on the one-to-one model under Linux. Try using SCTP_GET_PEER_ADDR_INFO. The socket api specifies this to be the mechanism to get the assoc id. Note that this was not true when the Stevens book was written.. In BSD you can use eitehr PEER_ADDR_PARAMS or GET_PEER_ADDR_INFO.. but obviously you can't for linux :-) Note too, that for the one-2-one style socket I don't think (if I remember right) solaris actually will give you an assoc_id... or if it does its not really used... always 1 or something.. BSD and Linux give you a real asoc_id... > > The spec in 7.1.13 says about the struct sctp_paddrparams: > "spp_assoc_id - (one-to-many style socket) This is filled in the > application, and identifies the association for this query". But it > doesn't say anything about the one-to-one style socket. The Linux code > doesn't fill in a value for the association id, but I presume the BSD > does. Other parts of the spec say what should happen to the one-to-one > model for other calls, so shoud this one too? I think you should look at 7.2.2 spinfo_assoc_id - This is field may be filled in by the application, if so, this field will have priority in looking up the association over the address specified in spinfo_address. Note that if the address does not belong to the association specified then this call will fail. If the application does NOT fill in the spinfo_assoc_id, then the address will be used to lookup the association and on return this field will have the valid association id. In other words, this call can be used to translate a address into an association id. This will give you what you want.. in theory... not sure if linux will give it to you on the one-2-one model.. it should I think.. > > I would prefer the spec to also say: "For the one-to-one model the > value is filled in by the sctp_opt_info call and returned to the > user"? > R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Sun Apr 22 07:48:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfaYJ-0005ZS-1n for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:48:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfaYH-0003B2-Qz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:48:23 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Apr 2007 07:48:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3MBmLIZ022282; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:48:21 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3MBmClG008930; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:48:12 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3MBm9tJ010009 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:48:09 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3MBm9bN010005 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:48:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,436,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="139021184:sNHT43923258" Message-Id: <462B4C13.3050808@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:50:43 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Newmarch CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Fwd: [Tsvwg] Re: ephemeral ports and bindx References: <579ea40b0704012229v787db339h4ab111ae69a17325@mail.gmail.com> <461BC843.9040809@sun.com> <461CB8DC.4030104@sun.com> <461CBA9E.2070608@cisco.com> <461CC744.2010201@sun.com> <461D1004.9060501@cisco.com> <461E1684.5030504@sun.com> <579ea40b0704120650n1a885e5ic357291ba806cb1f@mail.gmail.com> <579ea40b0704131947g305b6779hf463e4f9d87e556d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704131947g305b6779hf463e4f9d87e556d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2007 11:48:06.0491 (UTC) FILETIME=[17764AB0:01C784D4] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=781; t=1177242501; x=1178106501; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20 bindx |Sender:=20 |To:=20Jan=20Newmarch=20; bh=Zps5ckTzr5PKKb7HhT6XpXVEjccuBIGkKebFf2lvLi0=; b=IZEw6rzM0wrhm40PCkyA7RQw2bjqfzWuB7NfFcykfeZFABOA6cHakUkKr+R+nbLWujmfF51y krxFS135Hszfy1yRIV6BMhJzNOM9pAGLa0xHoX5RR6L6XQ2qTALs2gS/; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=781; t=1177242487; x=1178106487; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Fwd=3A=20[Tsvwg]=20Re=3A=20ephemeral=20ports=20and=20 bindx |Sender:=20; bh=Zps5ckTzr5PKKb7HhT6XpXVEjccuBIGkKebFf2lvLi0=; b=jLNp6KTBvvLNg5FepGJGnXI2/EoHbfu7fByP7Pmr8b/uisbjsn3HNiuilWMt0MFjaGZ+HQ1D lIIwaGQ5GqrHhNjlbATe3KamRQTktazW0pFQBPCyusCBBd/hg61syvTm; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Jan Newmarch wrote: > > I know one shouldn't argue from an implementation back to a spec (the > behaviour may be an accident of the implementation or test > environment), but there were arguments earlier in favour of connectx > being able to "pick one out of many servers, don't care which". If my > understanding of the purpose of sctp_connectx is now right, it isn't > so clear to me why the restriction of single host, single port is > there since at least one implementation seems to follow the proposed > connectx semantics. This is just plain and simple a bug in linux.. only one port should be allowed in a sctp_connectx call IMO.. not multiple ports. R > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From sud@bimcor.ca Sun Apr 22 09:23:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfc23-0007sG-Bg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:23:11 -0400 Received: from pd9e87b7e.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.232.123.126]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfc1x-00073p-Sj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:23:11 -0400 Received: from syoe ([66.45.28.59]) by pD9E87B7E.dip.t-dialin.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:23:03 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c784e1$5b5e4040$3b1c2d42@syoe> From: "Schroeder" To: Subject: The client then updates the page based on the response. Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:23:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C784F2.1EDB7780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ceb20e3ccfd90d068e2ad6c8a4781b53 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C784F2.1EDB7780 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C784F2.1EDE5DB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C784F2.1EDE5DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The example is taken from the demonstration of the combobox widget on = the Dojo toolkit site. Let's assume that an XML document is returned in = this example. Let's look at an example of a jMaki widget. This synchronization makes = it possible to perform multiphase operations on a UI component such as = converting and validating input data for the component prior to handling = an event. Create your own Flickr web service client using Flickr APIs and keys. = In one application, the autocompletion component is used in a way = similar to the address form completion example in Figure 2. To include a Dojo widget on a page, you need to (1) import the package = for the widget using the JavaScript function dojo. It's the wrapped version of the combobox widget provided in the Dojo = toolkit. It's the wrapped version of the combobox widget provided in the Dojo = toolkit. For example, the onkeyup attribute triggers the JavaScript function = doCompletion every time a user enters a character in the State field. Process the Result From the Server in a JavaScript Callback Function = The request to the server is processed by a servlet. At the other end of the spectrum, you take advantage of techniques that = allow you to build Ajax into a web page with little or no JavaScript = coding. To see some examples, see Project Dynamic Faces and jMaki. The = ProcessRequest function calls the parseMessages() function if the = request to the server was completed and performed successfully. If you want the pop-up list to display in a different presentation = style, you need to code the CSS accordingly. A code of 200 means that = the request was performed successfully. Page authors use these Ajax components, along with widgets, JavaScript = technology, and other techniques, to incorporate Ajax functionality into = their web applications. For example, if the CSS is in a file named = styles. A dictionary web service that comes with the Sun Java Studio Creator IDE = supplies the suggested words. He has written extensively about = relational database technology, programming languages, and web services. jMaki widgets are also available in the NetBeans IDE through the jMaki = NetBeans plug-in. Asynchronous means that after sending data to the server, the client can = continue processing while the server does its processing in the = background. Most popular browsers, including Mozilla browsers and = Internet Explorer, do. The widget displays a drop-down menu of choices. = When a user types into the input field, the entry fires the complete() = function to handle the event and passes to the function the input field = complete-field. ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C784F2.1EDE5DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"priority"
The example is taken from the = demonstration of the=20 combobox widget on the Dojo toolkit site. Let's assume that an XML = document is=20 returned in this example.
Let's look at an example of a jMaki = widget. This=20 synchronization makes it possible to perform multiphase operations on a = UI component=20 such as converting and validating input data for the component prior to = handling an=20 event.
Create your own Flickr web service = client using =20 Flickr APIs and keys. In one application, the autocompletion component = is used in a=20 way similar to the address form completion example in Figure = 2.
To include a Dojo widget on a page, you = need to (1)=20 import the package for the widget using the JavaScript function = dojo.
It's the wrapped version of the = combobox widget=20 provided in the Dojo toolkit.
It's the wrapped version of the = combobox widget=20 provided in the Dojo toolkit.
For example, the onkeyup attribute = triggers the=20 JavaScript function doCompletion every time a user enters a character in = the State=20 field.
Process the Result From the Server in a = JavaScript=20 Callback Function The request to the server is processed by a = servlet.
At the other end of the spectrum, you = take=20 advantage of techniques that allow you to build Ajax into a web page = with little or=20 no JavaScript coding.
To see some examples, see Project = Dynamic Faces and=20 jMaki. The ProcessRequest function calls the parseMessages() function if = the request=20 to the server was completed and performed successfully.
If you want the pop-up list to display = in a=20 different presentation style, you need to code the CSS accordingly. A = code of 200=20 means that the request was performed successfully.
Page authors use these Ajax components, = along with=20 widgets, JavaScript technology, and other techniques, to incorporate = Ajax=20 functionality into their web applications. For example, if the CSS is in = a file=20 named styles.
A dictionary web service that comes = with the Sun=20 Java Studio Creator IDE supplies the suggested words. He has written = extensively=20 about relational database technology, programming languages, and web=20 services.
jMaki widgets are also available in the = NetBeans=20 IDE through the jMaki NetBeans plug-in.
Asynchronous means that after sending = data to the=20 server, the client can continue processing while the server does its = processing in=20 the background. Most popular browsers, including Mozilla browsers and = Internet=20 Explorer, do. The widget displays a drop-down menu of choices. When a = user types=20 into the input field, the entry fires the complete() function to handle = the event=20 and passes to the function the input field = complete-field.
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lBqp2IFlmzJqCjrqoCZJobofU9rpnVYwqZs2qgod2FpCKUC+pZ1q5aWSZwIm48gNqaRiGNQJJZ5y ZaTp4qZyqp9OqkPOQwgAADs=^% --%^V9^%-- From ubx@bcit.ca Sun Apr 22 09:23:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfc2R-0007yb-UM for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:23:35 -0400 Received: from pd9e87b7e.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.232.123.126]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfc2Q-00079o-E4 for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:23:35 -0400 Received: from rpcf ([163.75.124.25]) by pD9E87B7E.dip.t-dialin.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:23:32 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c784e1$6c8e4680$197c4ba3@rpcf> From: "Bridges" To: Subject: 5 NetBeans Visual Web Pack 5. Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:23:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C784F2.30140940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bd14a31ed5bce9138736cf0e98bb014 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C784F2.30140940 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C784F2.3014CC90" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C784F2.3014CC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This article focuses on page authors and describes various techniques = that you can use to add Ajax functionality to a web page. To use the = component in a web page, you open the page in Sun Java Studio Creator's = Visual Designer. The Visual Web Pack is ideal for people who use the NetBeans IDE to = develop and consume web services and enterprise beans in web = applications. The value attribute holds the current value of the city or = state, which is bound to another managed bean, SessionBean. For example, Figure 8 shows what happens when you drag and drop the = combobox widget from the jMaki palette in the NetBeans IDE to the source = file of a web page. Page authors use these Ajax components, along with = widgets, JavaScript technology, and other techniques, to incorporate = Ajax functionality into their web applications. Make a request to the server through the XMLHttpRequest or XMLHTTP = object. The framework provides a library of wrapped widgets from various = JavaScript libraries such as the Dojo toolkit and script. The JavaScript code is designed to interact with a servlet on the server = to handle autocompletion. If an Ajax-enabled component is available in an IDE, you can drag and = drop the component from the IDE's palette onto the page. The status property specifies a status code returned from the server. The parseMessages() function uses JavaScript functions such as = getElementsByTagName() to access and manipulate elements in the DOM = representation of the page. In fact, the UI components in the JavaServer Faces component libraries = are widgets, and they include widgets that are enabled for Ajax. A = managed bean is a JavaBeans technology component that is managed by the = JavaServer Faces framework. For example, a library of Ajax-enabled components is available as part = of the Java Blueprints Solutions Catalog. That's because Ajax is = currently the primary technique for driving the high responsiveness and = interactivity of some of the most popular applications on the web such = as Google Maps and Flickr. Also see the blog entry "jMaki supports PHP! The parameter true = indicates that the communication will be asynchronous. The example is taken from the demonstration of the combobox widget on = the Dojo toolkit site. The data is returned in the XMLHttpRequest or = XMLHTTP object and is typically in the form of an XML document. For example, enterprise application developers need to add logic in = server-side components to handle Ajax-related requests directed to the = server. In still other approaches, you do most or all of the JavaScript coding. = open("GET", url, true); req. Another way to add Ajax functionality to a = web page is to use widgets that are enabled for Ajax. A managed bean is = a JavaBeans technology component that is managed by the JavaServer Faces = framework. ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C784F2.3014CC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"satisfying"
This article focuses on page authors = and describes=20 various techniques that you can use to add Ajax functionality to a web = page. To use=20 the component in a web page, you open the page in Sun Java Studio = Creator's Visual=20 Designer.
The Visual Web Pack is ideal for people = who use the=20 NetBeans IDE to develop and consume web services and enterprise beans in = web=20 applications. The value attribute holds the current value of the city or = state,=20 which is bound to another managed bean, SessionBean.
For example, Figure 8 shows what = happens when you=20 drag and drop the combobox widget from the jMaki palette in the NetBeans = IDE to the=20 source file of a web page. Page authors use these Ajax components, along = with=20 widgets, JavaScript technology, and other techniques, to incorporate = Ajax=20 functionality into their web applications.
Make a request to the server through = the=20 XMLHttpRequest or XMLHTTP object.
The framework provides a library of = wrapped widgets=20 from various JavaScript libraries such as the Dojo toolkit and = script.
The JavaScript code is designed to = interact with a=20 servlet on the server to handle autocompletion.
If an Ajax-enabled component is = available in an=20 IDE, you can drag and drop the component from the IDE's palette onto = the=20 page.
The status property specifies a status = code=20 returned from the server.
The parseMessages() function uses = JavaScript=20 functions such as getElementsByTagName() to access and manipulate = elements in the=20 DOM representation of the page.
In fact, the UI components in the = JavaServer Faces=20 component libraries are widgets, and they include widgets that are = enabled for Ajax.=20 A managed bean is a JavaBeans technology component that is managed by = the JavaServer=20 Faces framework.
For example, a library of Ajax-enabled = components=20 is available as part of the Java Blueprints Solutions Catalog. That's = because Ajax=20 is currently the primary technique for driving the high responsiveness = and=20 interactivity of some of the most popular applications on the web such = as Google=20 Maps and Flickr.
Also see the blog entry "jMaki = supports PHP! The=20 parameter true indicates that the communication will be = asynchronous.
The example is taken from the = demonstration of the=20 combobox widget on the Dojo toolkit site. The data is returned in the = XMLHttpRequest=20 or XMLHTTP object and is typically in the form of an XML = document.
For example, enterprise application = developers need=20 to add logic in server-side components to handle Ajax-related requests = directed to=20 the server.
In still other approaches, you do most = or all of=20 the JavaScript coding. open("GET", url, true); req. Another way to add = Ajax=20 functionality to a web page is to use widgets that are enabled for Ajax. = A managed=20 bean is a JavaBeans technology component that is managed by the = JavaServer Faces=20 framework.
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X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78502.35A84F00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78502.35A84F00" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78502.35A84F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78502.35A84F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi


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X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d0d29357c3d5e3f2456c963271fcd12b ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78521.B11E33B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78521.B122EEA0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78521.B122EEA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not only do the unwanted programs delay the start of Windows, but they = also continue to slow down your computer since they use system = resources. But the response has gone up three-fold here in Perth. Push the power button again, and Vista resumes within just two or three = seconds. By taking away people's basic right to learn English, the Government = would be working against integration'. Of course, only about one in ten upgrades, so I'm not rich yet! So, I = come to support them'. Vanunu has not set foot into the Dimona for 21 = years and International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Inspectors never = have. I've actually got quite a few referrals to one of them, but I've = decided to opt out. Nonetheless, after more than a quarter of a Century behind bars, John = Bowden, now aged 50, had progressed through the system to an open = prison, Castle Huntly in Scotland. (But this is over the last 18 months, = so it's not much money! The videos are short and helpful, teaching you = new skills quickly. comIf you haven't seen any of them yet, About now = has a number of great videos covering a wide variety of Windows and = other computing topics. As an all-out war is highly probable, Russia could hardly remain for a = long time a mere observer of a theater of war erupting at its Southern = flank. The brutal murder of a daughter, mother, or sister is barely endurable. = I have about thirty signups in Perth. 'Although they come to work, and = are committed to living here, a lot of people are going to be put off by = the costs of classes'. The victim appears to be the focus of police who question why a woman = might walk alone, wear a short skirt, or smile at a passerby. The = Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the UN in 1948 was = ratified by Israel and was contingent upon their statehood. Windows XP = Custom Settings - In Windows XP, you can personalize everything from the = Taskbar to the Start Menu. You'll learn how to perform common tasks with Vista, such as starting = programs and opening files. This theme was repeated by many people- how = can the Government support integration and at the same time refuse to = fund the necessary provision? Read Nick White's blog entry to see a few = of his favorite Vista shortcuts, or check Microsoft lengthly list of = keyboard shortcuts for its products. The Power of a ShortcutNick White's = blog entry about Vista keyboard shortcuts got me thinking about the = power of a good keyboard shortcut. So, in time, that should become three upgraded, ongoing members. These = people were demonstrating their rejection of the Government proposals to = cut the provisions of free ESOL classes. I'll slowly but surely recruit = a team under me. Article 13-2 affirms: "Everyone has the right to leave any country, = including his own. I suspect that the idea of a dating site just didn't appeal at all to = many of them. Guatemala is a beautiful country, rich with history, and home to = extraordinary people. I couldn't sleep for two years; they tried to break my nerves. But if the trials go ahead, bee keepers will remove the boxes From the = available evidence, it looks like the potatoes haven't been planted yet. I think the best approach is to find a few that look good and sign up to = them, then hopefully at least one of them will bear fruit. This seemed to work reasonably well in Sydney. We hope that we will be given a chance'. It is general belief that Iran and Russia form a stable strategic = alliance predominantly directed against U. He said that from his experience this was the best means of promotion. Nonetheless, after more than a quarter of a Century behind bars, John = Bowden, now aged 50, had progressed through the system to an open = prison, Castle Huntly in Scotland. This was the universe telling me to get cracking, I thought. A war on Iran would be catastrophic. I'm sending him notes, they're reading them. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78521.B122EEA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"away"
Not only do the unwanted programs delay = the start=20 of Windows, but they also continue to slow down your computer since they = use system=20 resources. But the response has gone up three-fold here in = Perth.
Push the power button again, and Vista = resumes=20 within just two or three seconds.
By taking away people's basic right to = learn=20 English, the Government would be working against = integration'.
Of course, only about one in ten = upgrades, so I'm=20 not rich yet! So, I come to support them'. Vanunu has not set foot into = the Dimona=20 for 21 years and International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Inspectors = never have.=20 I've actually got quite a few referrals to one of them, but I've decided = to opt=20 out.
Nonetheless, after more than a quarter = of a Century=20 behind bars, John Bowden, now aged 50, had progressed through the system = to an open=20 prison, Castle Huntly in Scotland. (But this is over the last 18 months, = so it's not=20 much money! The videos are short and helpful, teaching you new skills = quickly. comIf=20 you haven't seen any of them yet, About now has a number of great videos = covering a=20 wide variety of Windows and other computing topics.
As an all-out war is highly probable, = Russia could=20 hardly remain for a long time a mere observer of a theater of war = erupting at its=20 Southern flank.
The brutal murder of a daughter, = mother, or sister=20 is barely endurable. I have about thirty signups in Perth. 'Although = they come to=20 work, and are committed to living here, a lot of people are going to be = put off by=20 the costs of classes'.
The victim appears to be the focus of = police who=20 question why a woman might walk alone, wear a short skirt, or smile at a = passerby.=20 The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the UN in 1948 was = ratified by=20 Israel and was contingent upon their statehood. Windows XP Custom = Settings - In=20 Windows XP, you can personalize everything from the Taskbar to the = Start=20 Menu.
You'll learn how to perform common = tasks with=20 Vista, such as starting programs and opening files. This theme was = repeated by many=20 people- how can the Government support integration and at the same time = refuse to=20 fund the necessary provision? Read Nick White's blog entry to see a few = of his=20 favorite Vista shortcuts, or check Microsoft lengthly list of keyboard = shortcuts for=20 its products. The Power of a ShortcutNick White's blog entry about Vista = keyboard=20 shortcuts got me thinking about the power of a good keyboard = shortcut.
So, in time, that should become three = upgraded,=20 ongoing members. These people were demonstrating their rejection of the = Government=20 proposals to cut the provisions of free ESOL classes. I'll slowly but = surely recruit=20 a team under me.
Article 13-2 affirms: "Everyone has the = right to=20 leave any country, including his own.
I suspect that the idea of a dating = site just=20 didn't appeal at all to many of them.
Guatemala is a beautiful country, rich = with=20 history, and home to extraordinary people.
I couldn't sleep for two years; they = tried to break=20 my nerves.
But if the trials go ahead, bee keepers = will remove=20 the boxes From the available evidence, it looks like the potatoes = haven't been=20 planted yet.
I think the best approach is to find a = few that=20 look good and sign up to them, then hopefully at least one of them will = bear=20 fruit.
This seemed to work reasonably well = in=20 Sydney.
We hope that we will be given a=20 chance'.
It is general belief that Iran and = Russia form a=20 stable strategic alliance predominantly directed against U.
He said that from his experience this = was the best=20 means of promotion.
Nonetheless, after more than a quarter = of a Century=20 behind bars, John Bowden, now aged 50, had progressed through the system = to an open=20 prison, Castle Huntly in Scotland.
This was the universe telling me to get = cracking, I=20 thought.
A war on Iran would be = catastrophic.
I'm sending him notes, they're = reading=20 them.
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sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:05:04 -0400 Received: from [85.98.28.94] (helo=dsl.dynamic85982894.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfgQP-0000HS-Vb for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:05:04 -0400 Received: from pindi ([36.124.173.62]) by dsl.dynamic85982894.ttnet.net.tr (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l3MI9GJj045001; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:09:16 +0300 Message-ID: <001101c78508$abe8c5e0$3ead7c24@pindi> From: "Frost Trudy" To: Subject: conjecture Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:04:29 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78521.D124E6E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 197d13e6eff8b01fadb94b62c6f788ce ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C78521.D124E6E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78521.D1292CA0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78521.D1292CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Article 13-2 affirms: "Everyone has the right to leave any country, = including his own. 5 million from military exports for the next year. As it can be expected, an Iran War will considerably weaken the = aggressed (as a regional great power), but also the aggressor (as the = global superpower). military actions emanating from there. It's a new power state that quickly saves your session and restores it = faster when you're ready to use the computer again later. The Power of a = ShortcutNick White's blog entry about Vista keyboard shortcuts got me = thinking about the power of a good keyboard shortcut. Please contact us = for bulk orders. " The Israeli government refuses to allow Vanunu to = leave claiming he still has a secret he has yet to tell about the = underground WMD program in the Negev. If you decide to go and have a look for yourself, the loud bangs are = from a sound gun to keep birds away. Article 13-2 affirms: "Everyone has = the right to leave any country, including his own. The right-hand edge = of the field. its important to let the fuckers know we three do not = stand alone. The above article is excerpted from her statement before the = Congressional Human Rights Caucus on September 13, 2006. However, I also found plenty of gunshot cartridges lying around. The = above article is excerpted from her statement before the Congressional = Human Rights Caucus on September 13, 2006. Particularly when they have = been brutalised by, marginalised from, and pushed to the very edges of = society. There are all these opportunities and ventures out there and people get = burned because they get distracted by new ones. I'll slowly but surely = recruit a team under me. Many of their bodies show signs of rape, = torture, mutilation, and dismemberment. Optimize a Picture for Email - Learn how to reduce the size of digital = photos so you can more easily share them. so come down and show your = solidarity inside or outside the court from monday 9. It was, = unfortunately, something which happens all too frequently when men = quarrel while drunk. It's not only claims for asylum that are affected, = but their whole wellbeing. I couldn't sleep for two years; they tried to break my nerves. I suspect = there are a few reasons for this: One, Perth is just not nearly as = saturated with "junk mail" as Sydney is. but most importantly just come = along. control over that region is more dangerous for its interests in Eurasia. Last year I had the good fortune of being able to visit my father's = adopted country, to see the ancient cities of Tikal and Antigua, two of = the most beautiful cities I have ever visited. But what can we conclude from this potpourri of messages and reports = echoing from Moscow? When I did this is in Sydney, some of the high density areas (with lots = of units) had a high proportion of immigrants, often from the Middle = East. Also, TV advertising is a factor. " The far-ranging consequences of an Iran War cannot be calculated, = therefore there are good reasons for Moscow not to surrender to the = blurred dream to come off as sole winner. It's called Global Domains International and you've probably seen the = site at least a few times. so lets keep up the pressure. Last year I had the good fortune of being able to visit my father's = adopted country, to see the ancient cities of Tikal and Antigua, two of = the most beautiful cities I have ever visited. I am also regarded as a traitor because I was baptized a Christian. Nonetheless, after more than a quarter of a Century behind bars, John = Bowden, now aged 50, had progressed through the system to an open = prison, Castle Huntly in Scotland. However, more must be done. He wanted someone to deliver his flyers for him. " Some of you may wonder what the term "femicide" really means. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C78521.D1292CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"AC"
Article 13-2 affirms: "Everyone has the = right to=20 leave any country, including his own. 5 million from military exports = for the next=20 year.
As it can be expected, an Iran War = will=20 considerably weaken the aggressed (as a regional great power), but also = the=20 aggressor (as the global superpower).
military actions emanating from = there.
It's a new power state that quickly = saves your=20 session and restores it faster when you're ready to use the computer = again later.=20 The Power of a ShortcutNick White's blog entry about Vista keyboard = shortcuts got me=20 thinking about the power of a good keyboard shortcut. Please contact us = for bulk=20 orders. " The Israeli government refuses to allow Vanunu to leave = claiming he still=20 has a secret he has yet to tell about the underground WMD program in = the=20 Negev.
If you decide to go and have a look for = yourself,=20 the loud bangs are from a sound gun to keep birds away. Article 13-2 = affirms:=20 "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own. The = right-hand edge=20 of the field. its important to let the fuckers know we three do not = stand=20 alone.
The above article is excerpted from her = statement=20 before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus on September 13, = 2006.
However, I also found plenty of gunshot = cartridges=20 lying around. The above article is excerpted from her statement before = the=20 Congressional Human Rights Caucus on September 13, 2006. Particularly = when they have=20 been brutalised by, marginalised from, and pushed to the very edges = of=20 society.
There are all these opportunities and = ventures out=20 there and people get burned because they get distracted by new ones. = I'll slowly but=20 surely recruit a team under me. Many of their bodies show signs of rape, = torture,=20 mutilation, and dismemberment.
Optimize a Picture for Email - Learn = how to reduce=20 the size of digital photos so you can more easily share them. so come = down and show=20 your solidarity inside or outside the court from monday 9. It was, = unfortunately,=20 something which happens all too frequently when men quarrel while drunk. = It's not=20 only claims for asylum that are affected, but their whole = wellbeing.
I couldn't sleep for two years; they = tried to break=20 my nerves. I suspect there are a few reasons for this: One, Perth is = just not=20 nearly as saturated with "junk mail" as Sydney is. but most importantly = just come=20 along.
control over that region is more = dangerous for its=20 interests in Eurasia.
Last year I had the good fortune of = being able to=20 visit my father's adopted country, to see the ancient cities of Tikal = and Antigua,=20 two of the most beautiful cities I have ever visited.
But what can we conclude from this = potpourri of=20 messages and reports echoing from Moscow?
When I did this is in Sydney, some of = the high=20 density areas (with lots of units) had a high proportion of immigrants, = often from=20 the Middle East.
Also, TV advertising is a = factor.
" The far-ranging consequences of an = Iran War=20 cannot be calculated, therefore there are good reasons for Moscow not to = surrender=20 to the blurred dream to come off as sole winner.
It's called Global Domains = International and you've=20 probably seen the site at least a few times.
so lets keep up the = pressure.
Last year I had the good fortune of = being able to=20 visit my father's adopted country, to see the ancient cities of Tikal = and Antigua,=20 two of the most beautiful cities I have ever visited.
I am also regarded as a traitor because = I was=20 baptized a Christian.
Nonetheless, after more than a quarter = of a Century=20 behind bars, John Bowden, now aged 50, had progressed through the system = to an open=20 prison, Castle Huntly in Scotland.
However, more must be = done.
He wanted someone to deliver his flyers = for=20 him.
" Some of you may wonder what the term = "femicide"=20 really means.
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Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:46:40 -0500 To: "Sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Office 2003 OEM deployment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------F7F001F6.381E33AE" X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2bcdb6f0ba9636bf286b7e28ccb8bd9b --------------F7F001F6.381E33AE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We are all cells in the same body of humanity=2E
Conscription may have been good for the country, but it damn near killed= the army=2E
There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dre= am of things that never were, and ask why not=2E
I have no objections to churches so long as they do not interfere with G= od's work=2E
Maybe the only thing worse than having to give gratitude constantly is h= aving to accept it=2E
I used to be indecisive now I'm not sure=2E
Character is the result of two things: Mental attitude and the way we sp= end our time=2E
In youth we run into difficulties=2E In old age difficulties run into us= =2E
Live your life and forget your age=2E
A gift consists not in what is done or given, but in the intention of th= e giver or doer=2E
The horse, the horse! The symbol of surging potency and power of movemen= t, of action, in man=2E
The real death of America will come when everyone is alike=2E
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From oiunkinduu@peckc.fsnet.co.uk Mon Apr 23 01:02:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfqh9-0000c6-5x for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:02:35 -0400 Received: from dslb-082-083-089-117.pools.arcor-ip.net ([82.83.89.117] helo=peckc.fsnet.co.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfqh7-0003OE-Qq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:02:35 -0400 Message-ID: <032e01c78600$3ebd99f0$0953e3d0@kknewo> Reply-To: "Vanb Bermudez" From: "Vanb Bermudez" To: Subject: Re: And continuity Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:02:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1081 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, many people are already in the know Experience a Charging Bull in this the next soda giant Fire Mountain Beverage Company Sym-FBVG Extremely b ullish at 2 Cents Expected : $0.70 ( 1000 percent return!! ), and thats just the beginging Remember Snapple, this will be bigger Watch this trade Monday Add it to your Radar People are already loading up, you should too!! night. Carmelo Anthony augmented Iverson's night by adding 29 points in They lost to Detroit 105-83 Friday night, which D'Antoni blamed on emotional Louis Bullock in what the NCAA said was the largest financial scandal in of the night when his third attempt at a putback resulted in the whistle, and his ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vanb Bermudez" To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: And continuity > Experience a Charging Bull in this the next soda giant > Fire Mountain Beverage Company > Sym-FBVG > Extremely b ullish at 2 Cents > Expected : $0.70 ( 1000 percent return!! ), and thats just the beginging From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 01:42:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfrJc-0000At-BJ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:42:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfrJa-0002Iu-Sd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:42:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 01:42:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N5gHJO020460; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:42:17 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N5fFGd007360; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:41:15 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N5d9J4025210 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:39:09 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N5d9sn025206 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:39:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAFDjK0amRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54740871:sNHT23369481" Message-Id: <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:29:47 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC / Partial writes References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Randall Stewart wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> ... >> Does anyone see a problem with returning MSG_TRUNC (and MSG_EOR) with >> a zero length read when necessary? That would certainly be the usual >> case. >> - Mark B. >> > The only issue I would think on this is that many apps > (as you said) consider a 0 length read to mean you get > no more data from the peer.. This would usually be the > case if a PD-API is aborted.. due to the peer itself > aborted/shutdown. However the case where this event got > added was for the PR_SCTP feature. If you have a partially > reliable message it could get "skipped" via timeout etc. > In such a case, the read returns 0 does NOT mean the > peer has gone away... don't know if this will confuse > apps or not. Wouldn't it be fair to say that those apps are currently using a different protocol from SCTP, and that if they were to be adapted to support SCTP, changing them to recognize a zero length read w/ MSG_TRUNC would be a trivial consideration compared to the other changes necessary to take advantage of SCTP's advanced features? To me it seems that it is impossible to properly support a record oriented protocol without supporting zero length reads and writes to terminate messages when there is no more data. The very fact that POSIX documents MSG_EOR implies support for splitting a message into multiple writes. And any application that generates a message on the fly is going to have situations where there is no more data in the current message. And the only available means POSIX provides for terminating a message in such a case is a zero length write with MSG_EOR set. I understand there are protocol level restrictions on interleaving messages on send (on the same association), but nonetheless it seems to me that it would be a considerable improvement to add an socket option to allow multiple writes terminated by MSG_EOR on the sending side as well. Call it SCTP_PARTIAL_WRITE. At a minimum it would solve the inverse head of line blocking problem, where a 1:M style socket is tied up sending a large message on one association, preventing all of the others from being serviced, by allowing writes to be interleaved across associations. Of course, that would also improve the symmetry of the whole interface. Comments? - Mark B. 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Best replica watches from IWC at Replica Classics http://www.geocities.com/Gwendolynwdh37882?7ebKIVn From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 01:54:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfrVE-0007Mc-L2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:54:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfrVE-0001JT-Cf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:54:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 01:54:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N5sJNN022541; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:54:19 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N5rqGd008959; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:53:52 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N5rQg8025470 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:53:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N5rQuU025466 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:53:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAPHmK0amRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54742830:sNHT18939825" Message-Id: <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:53:30 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Hello Michael, Comments inline. Michael Tuexen wrote: > Hi Mark, > > we discussed this a while ago. I do see the case that a kernel can not > guarantee this. But the kernel can always fail the setsockopt() call. > > It is intended for writing applications, where you know that all > messages are small and that you have, for instance, the 1-to-1 > socket API. Then you do not have to write code to reassemble > messages in the user application. My problem is that this option as specified is trying to accomplish three different things. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT naturally tells the SCTP implementation that the application wants streaming data at a typical minimum granualarity, i.e. return whenever at least this much data is available. However, a notification that the application is not prepared to handle partial deliveries under any circumstances should logically be handled by a couple of different options. One would disable partial reads, and the other would set the maximum message size, to prevent denial of service attacks. I suggest that the former be called SCTP_PARTIAL_READ, and the latter be called SCTP_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE. If you set SCTP_PARTIAL_READ to zero, it would indicate to the stack that the application will only issue one read per message in all cases, and any message longer than the read buffer should be truncated and tagged with MSG_TRUNC according to POSIX convention. Then SCTP_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE would simply indicate that any message larger than the specified size is an application level error condition, and the message should likewise be truncated to the specified size and reported immediately to the application to prevent large message based denial of service attacks. And SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT would be an advisory delivery point and nothing else. Three logically distinct options. Comments? - Mark B. > On Apr 21, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Mark Butler wrote: > >> Michael Tuexen wrote: >> >>> I just changed the text for the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT from] >>> >>> Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery >>> will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the >>> user >>> provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. >>> >>> to >>> >>> Note that any single message having a length smaller than or >>> equal to >>> the SCTP partial delivery point will be delivered in one single >>> read >>> call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold >>> the >>> message. >> >> >> I do not recall the discussion on this point, but I don't think this >> is a promise that can be kept in all cases. Atomic read semantics >> are attractive, but I don't think they can be provided for >> relatively arbitrary message sizes without risking deadlock. And >> even if deadlock can be avoided, this type of guarantee greatly >> complicates buffer management on the implementation side of things, >> so code that depends on it is not likely to be portable in any case. >> >> So I suggest that this paragraph be deleted. Does anyone have an >> argument for why this guarantee should remain? >> >> - Mark B. >> From torger@ludd.ltu.se Mon Apr 23 02:57:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfsUS-0001SD-QK for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:57:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfsUR-00049p-Cy for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:57:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 02:57:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N6vYrS002553; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:57:34 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N6uolG009906; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:56:50 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N6t5RB026349 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:55:05 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N6t5NM026345 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:55:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACD1K0bDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82425716:sNHT27786258" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Does SCTP support 65535 or 65536 streams per association? Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:43:17 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: Michael Tuexen , Qiaobing Xie , bidulock@openss7.org, Kacheong Poon , SCTP Implementors References: <200704191042.47725.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <1E83E626-5288-4B6D-9276-9072BE2FD90C@micmac.franken.de> <4629F8D8.3090501@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4629F8D8.3090501@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704230843.17751.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3N6t3RJ026342 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb The reason I asked the question originally was simply to clear out how many streams that SCTP supports, and if it would be 65536 then the socket API would be buggy. A small bug, but still a bug. But as it seems SCTP supports 65535 natively in the protocol, and thus there is no problem with the socket API. I don't think anyone thinks 65535 is too little, or at least if so that 65536 would be enough. A criticism I could think of is that someone may think it is a bit 'ugly' to make that last stream id unavailable, that is a question of beauty rather than use. The stream negotiation could be about how many streams that should be set up *in addition* to stream 0 (since it makes no sense to want 0 streams, does it?), that way the protocol would support 65536 streams, but that would require a change in the protocol... The new protocol spec perhaps should contain some text that actually states the valid values of the stream id (0 - 65534). Many texts that I've read about SCTP states incorrectly that SCTP supports 65536 streams, and I think that comes from the fact that one has to realize that streams are indirectly limited to 65535 which is not too obvious. /Anders Torger On Saturday 21 April 2007 13:43, Randall Stewart wrote: > I shutter to ask this question.. but it continually comes > up.. > > Maybe we need to add back a method to add a stream > to an association... > > We had this in the original spec.. (and a way to delete > streams too).. but some in the team (Vern and Lixia if > I remember right) thought it was to complicated and had > it removed... It did add a lot of code.. but that was > mainly for the delete case.. so maybe adding a stream would > not be too bad.. > > And then if you really really really wanted 65,536 streams and > 65,535 was not enough.. then you could negotiate the 65k-1 and > then add the last stream :-D > > Of course if you really are to the point where 65k-1 is NOT > enough.. I doubt you will be happy with 65k :-D > > R > > Michael Tuexen wrote: > > Hi Qiaobing, > > > > it is what you said... > > > > Best regards > > Michael > > > > On Apr 20, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Qiaobing Xie wrote: > >> I don't remember what I said then, but I believe the purpose for > >> setting 0 aside is to reserve it for future use (a general > >> practice in stds). > >> > >> regards, > >> -Qiaobing > >> > >> Michael Tuexen wrote: > >>> Hi Brians, > >>> Qiaobing wrote me a while ago that it was done on purpose. Have > >>> forgotten, > >>> what purpose. But the question came up some time ago. > >>> Best regards > >>> Michael > >>> > >>> On Apr 19, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > >>>> Kacheong, > >>>> > >>>> It more than the API, it is the protocol: > >>>> > >>>> Number of Outbound Streams (OS): 16 bits (unsigned integer) > >>>> > >>>> Defines the number of outbound streams the sender of this > >>>> INIT chunk wishes to create in this association. The value of 0 > >>>> MUST NOT be used. > >>>> > >>>> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the OS value set to 0 > >>>> SHOULD abort the association. > >>>> > >>>> Number of Inbound Streams (MIS) : 16 bits (unsigned integer) > >>>> > >>>> Defines the maximum number of streams the sender of this > >>>> INIT chunk allows the peer end to create in this association. > >>>> The value 0 MUST NOT be used. > >>>> > >>>> Note: There is no negotiation of the actual number of > >>>> streams but instead the two endpoints will use the > >>>> min(requested, offered). See Section 5.1.1 for details. > >>>> > >>>> Note: A receiver of an INIT with the MIS value of 0 SHOULD > >>>> abort the association. > >>>> > >>>> So, even though the Stream ID can represent 65536 streams, only > >>>> 65535 can be requested in the INIT. > >>>> > >>>> That application that wants one more stream is SOL. > >>>> > >>>> --brian > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Kacheong Poon wrote: > >>>>> Anders Torger wrote: > >>>>>> Using the socket API, the maximum number of streams can be set > >>>>>> to 65535, > >>>>>> since the value is a 16 bit unsigned integer. Looking in > >>>>>> RFC2960 it seems like there could be 65536 streams, index 0 to > >>>>>> 65535. > >>>>> > >>>>> I guess this is a bug in the API... > >>>>> > >>>>>> One could think however that the value provided in > >>>>>> SCTP_INITMSG is the > >>>>>> number of streams excluding stream 0, so setting 65535 means > >>>>>> 65535 streams plus stream 0. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> However, this is not how it works in Linux and Solaris at > >>>>>> least. When I > >>>>>> set 65535 in SCTP_INITMSG, then I get stream indexes 0 - > >>>>>> 65534, if I try sending on stream with index 65535 it fails > >>>>>> with EINVAL. Thus these > >>>>>> implementations support 65535 streams. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Is this the way it should be? Is the Linux/Solaris > >>>>>> implementations buggy, is the socket API deliberately designed > >>>>>> to limit stream count to > >>>>>> 65535, or is actually the SCTP protocol itself limited to > >>>>>> 65535 rather > >>>>>> than 65536 streams? > >>>>> > >>>>> I think it is a bug in the API. We cannot use a uint16_t to > >>>>> represent the maximum number 65536... I guess it is too late > >>>>> to change the API. You may just consider that all platforms > >>>>> implementing this API can only support 65535 streams :-) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- K. Poon. > >>>>> kacheong.poon@sun.com > >>>> > >>>> --Brian F. G. Bidulock ｦ The reasonable man adapts himself to > >>>> the ｦ bidulock@openss7.org ｦ world; the unreasonable one > >>>> persists in ｦ http://www.openss7.org/ ｦ trying to adapt the > >>>> world to himself. ｦ ｦ Therefore all progress depends on the > >>>> ｦ ｦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ｦ From torger@ludd.ltu.se Mon Apr 23 03:15:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfslZ-0004xs-5T for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:15:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfslY-0007uI-T1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:15:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 03:15:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N7FGSr015268; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:15:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N7EllG013139; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:14:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N7EUpW026671 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:14:30 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N7EUia026667 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:14:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAND5K0bDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDgEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82431183:sNHT51799734" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Partial delivery API unclear Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:02:52 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: Kacheong Poon References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <4629B873.2000406@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <4629B873.2000406@middle.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704230902.52807.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 It seems to me that if the stack supports MSG_TRUNC, it is not necessary to subscribe for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT. Actually, since the partial delivery event currently lacks a stream field, MSG_TRUNC is required in cases where the stack can have more than one partial delivery going on per association. The worst case is thus a stack supporting PR-SCTP, supporting multiple partial deliveries per association, but not supporting MSG_TRUNC, meaning that when the application gets SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT it does not know which partial delivery that aborted. I've read comments on this regarding many stacks in this thread, and they seem ok. However, I haven't heard how the implementation in Solaris works. It seems to me that SCTP on Solaris could currently be in this state, that is if multiple partial deliveries are going on an one of them is aborted, the user cannot know which one. Or does the Solaris stack support MSG_TRUNC? (Unfortunately I currently have not set up any good packet loss tools so it is a bit hard for me to test these cases.) /Anders Torger On Saturday 21 April 2007 09:08, Mark Butler wrote: > Kacheong Poon wrote: > >Mark Butler wrote: > >>Good point. I suggest that a "uint16_t pdapi_stream" field be > >> added to the sctp_pdapi_event structure for that very purpose. > >>I might add as a further suggestion, that the cleanest way to > >> handle messages that expire during partial delivery is to adopt > >> the convention of terminating them with a zero length read with > >> both MSG_EOR and MSG_TRUNC set. There are several advantages to > >> that convention - it is simpler, it is easier to program, and > >> naive applications will be less likely to run messages together. > >> Proper compatibility could be maintained by only delivering such > >> semantics to applications that do _not_ subscribe to partial > >> delivery events. > > > >What is the original reason for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT? > >It seems to me that using MSG_TRUNC is probably a better > >indication. And the app handling code is simpler. > > I don't know the original reason, but I anticipate a couple of minor > objections: POSIX specifies that recvmsg() should return zero after > "no messages are available to be received and the peer has performed > an orderly shutdown" (such as a TCP half close for example). All > though POSIX does not require it, I believe some people assume the > reverse - that such an "end-of-file" condition is the only time > recvmsg ever returns zero bytes read. This convention, of course, > would require such a zero length read in many cases. > > POSIX also specifies that MSG_TRUNC be set on SOCK_DGRAM style > sockets when the available data exceeds the buffer size. It does not > anticipate protocol initiated truncation, and using MSG_TRUNC in this > way would be an extension of POSIX semantics. It appears to be a > clean extension to me - either way MSG_TRUNC means you do not have > the whole message. > > Of course we do not currently support SOCK_DGRAM style read > semantics, but if we did there would be a slight ambiguity when the > number of bytes available on a PR-SCTP terminated message was exactly > equal to the provided buffer size. Although I can't imagine what > difference it would make in practice, strictly speaking we would need > an additional flag added to sctp_sndrcvinfo to tell the difference in > that case. > > - Mark B. From torger@ludd.ltu.se Mon Apr 23 03:36:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hft6E-0006XZ-7N for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:36:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hft6C-0007tS-TT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:36:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 03:36:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N7aVEa013125; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:36:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N7aJGd024624; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:36:19 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N7ZvxP027025 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:35:57 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N7Zvok027021 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:35:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAGT+K0bDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54762183:sNHT16777746" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:24:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <200704211715.34571.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462A4A75.3070506@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462A4A75.3070506@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704230924.25610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 I know it may seem that I come up with some rather strange use cases, but what I'm doing here is seeing how you can write fool-proof SCTP code, without having to make a lot of ULP adaptions and assumptions. Some (many?) ULPs that have run over say TCP or UDP before and have adapted SCTP as an option, does not well specify how SCTP should be used. So in these cases an interoperable server would have to expect and work with any kind of mappings, in the worst case no mapping between SCTP user messages and ULP messages at all. In the case of Diameter, messages can also be quite large, so if the client choose one Diameter message = one SCTP user message (the RFC does not specify), the PD-API would surely be triggered now and then for some applications. To summarize, since SCTP support any size of its user messages, I think one should demand from the API that it properly supports these situations although rare. Thus, I withhold that SCTP_EXTRCV should be delivered with every recvmsg() to better support partial deliveries. /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 05:09:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfuYM-0000DC-Se for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:09:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfuYM-00057N-JI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:09:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 05:09:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N99kld002930; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:09:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N98HGd010220; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:08:17 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N94vLl028922 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:04:57 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N94vZ4028918 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:04:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="480621439:sNHT54292768" Message-Id: <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:07:22 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC / Partial writes References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 09:04:46.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[70BC9EF0:01C78586] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3093; t=1177319386; x=1178183386; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC=20/=20Partial=0A=20=20=20=20writes |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=SO7DCAeHXJijOfKA6h72LYIg4nNXXEuawlC0e5d26tM=; b=B9StPMYJcvecxMopFthwyTrxy9Ma/SH14l4VlzLpCcvc6KvPvGs8DnI9yLVxoMmDzTJ3B0vq mqwpQ0gaZEl39qNsMpkVwOqMYkjoGC/bDXaSmE+ojUqBbm0CdhoCpdS8; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3093; t=1177319095; x=1178183095; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC=20/=20Partial=0A=20writes |Sender:=20; bh=SO7DCAeHXJijOfKA6h72LYIg4nNXXEuawlC0e5d26tM=; b=Sh190CPV8iJloetVTTEHG25y9X7v9Q4AjgGQss7pLYSQGdQMC7l1CLE3qJFBbI+pkwrWv8NZ F0T3CemcFanI2YxyjtlsDslE9CIuH1sd9UQLX14l/OhnQ4/rncGZz/+G; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Mark Butler wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> ... >>> Does anyone see a problem with returning MSG_TRUNC (and MSG_EOR) with >>> a zero length read when necessary? That would certainly be the usual >>> case. >>> - Mark B. >>> >> The only issue I would think on this is that many apps >> (as you said) consider a 0 length read to mean you get >> no more data from the peer.. This would usually be the >> case if a PD-API is aborted.. due to the peer itself >> aborted/shutdown. However the case where this event got >> added was for the PR_SCTP feature. If you have a partially >> reliable message it could get "skipped" via timeout etc. >> In such a case, the read returns 0 does NOT mean the >> peer has gone away... don't know if this will confuse >> apps or not. > > Wouldn't it be fair to say that those apps are currently using a > different protocol from SCTP, and that if they were to be adapted to > support SCTP, changing them to recognize a zero length read w/ MSG_TRUNC > would be a trivial consideration compared to the other changes > necessary to take advantage of SCTP's advanced features? > > To me it seems that it is impossible to properly support a record > oriented protocol without supporting zero length reads and writes to > terminate messages when there is no more data. The very fact that POSIX > documents MSG_EOR implies support for splitting a message into multiple > writes. And any application that generates a message on the fly is > going to have situations where there is no more data in the current > message. And the only available means POSIX provides for terminating a > message in such a case is a zero length write with MSG_EOR set. > > I understand there are protocol level restrictions on interleaving > messages on send (on the same association), but nonetheless it seems to > me that it would be a considerable improvement to add an socket option > to allow multiple writes terminated by MSG_EOR on the sending side as > well. Call it SCTP_PARTIAL_WRITE. At a minimum it would solve the > inverse head of line blocking problem, where a 1:M style socket is tied > up sending a large message on one association, preventing all of the > others from being serviced, by allowing writes to be interleaved across > associations. Of course, that would also improve the symmetry of the > whole interface. > > Comments? > Please go look at the current socket api document... check out SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR Note that BSD supports this.. but when I implemented it I did not expect a user NOT to know it had hit the end of record without data to write... i.e. you have to have data to send down in that last write.. It seems to me you don't realize after the fact that you were all out of data for that record... but when you are writing the last piece.. thats when you realize.. hey this is the last of this record.. R > - Mark B. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 05:12:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfuav-0000oo-Sl for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:12:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfuau-0005Uc-Ks for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:12:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 05:12:24 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N9COJM003563; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:12:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N9C9lG011294; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:12:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N9Bico029200 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:11:44 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N9Bi5X029196 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:11:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="480622767:sNHT46798680" Message-Id: <462C78E9.8030708@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:14:17 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <200704211715.34571.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462A4A75.3070506@cisco.com> <200704230924.25610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704230924.25610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 09:11:41.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[67F66A70:01C78587] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1579; t=1177319544; x=1178183544; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=LhR16Ho6BzJaVAsqEKrNGFXWldLYXcGjjF4bd2X2dPM=; b=bHugTc8/3hoCTp2srkGfERX2yfY/TSJEXpfbh1N+qILqrsBLfptnC/NGR/h+1r9pRaHwATiB YRkVArjKAJV4mb1Bl7gW2cNoNG5UBLy+6OG7YH97t20jAOcyCw442RF/; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1579; t=1177319502; x=1178183502; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20text=20for=20pd-api=20changes |Sender:=20; bh=LhR16Ho6BzJaVAsqEKrNGFXWldLYXcGjjF4bd2X2dPM=; b=XN6//AbFvqnNicAdJtGC0Q6CU10R1jhLnlDDHVWhdU+h/Nfeh7jM6mIAwE7gYv+fN0Xmrkmb VpN+3zs7VRe9kJONKKHoehKAnJqx2cKt/GqX4AIc6+/9dhLmT0452GTD; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Anders: Just curious.. how large is quite large? For BSD, the default socket buffer is 233k.. and assuming a naive app that does not change the PD-API point.. a message would need to be over 100k before you would get a PD-API.. If Diameter uses 100k message.. then you are right... they are quite large.. :-D R Anders Torger wrote: > I know it may seem that I come up with some rather strange use cases, > but what I'm doing here is seeing how you can write fool-proof SCTP > code, without having to make a lot of ULP adaptions and assumptions. > > Some (many?) ULPs that have run over say TCP or UDP before and have > adapted SCTP as an option, does not well specify how SCTP should be > used. So in these cases an interoperable server would have to expect > and work with any kind of mappings, in the worst case no mapping > between SCTP user messages and ULP messages at all. > > In the case of Diameter, messages can also be quite large, so if the > client choose one Diameter message = one SCTP user message (the RFC > does not specify), the PD-API would surely be triggered now and then > for some applications. > > To summarize, since SCTP support any size of its user messages, I think > one should demand from the API that it properly supports these > situations although rare. > > Thus, I withhold that SCTP_EXTRCV should be delivered with every > recvmsg() to better support partial deliveries. > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 05:17:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfug2-0001yV-U8 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:17:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfug2-0006hl-Iv for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:17:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 05:17:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N9Hgt8004927; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:17:42 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N9HZGd011984; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:17:35 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N9H8U4029286 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:17:08 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N9H8sd029282 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:17:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55505401:sNHT52055649" Message-Id: <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:19:37 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: SCTP Implementors , Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 09:17:00.0884 (UTC) FILETIME=[265A3140:01C78588] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3987; t=1177319862; x=1178183862; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT=20semantics |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=uIWkUpdcE85xs76xPEC0DTHNTen64XMMw1jvi7DxIQc=; b=kHJmqlV8C90xmQ+Fc9srRNSCb/Hl1dejZZYGvkdLl2NxaZlGO7556U5J/Ucppb4lmFmWY88H QyvXj053UAoIUShOzB7D+dcZpWpLnAfJZXQPsRC992B/Qx0T107ZdOW0; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3987; t=1177319826; x=1178183826; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT=20semantics |Sender:=20; bh=uIWkUpdcE85xs76xPEC0DTHNTen64XMMw1jvi7DxIQc=; b=pKrZLQEcmFAnlXhtis087dWZ1k5GtgYCgL8snuqga+hWU7xPB+xhMr3TGa2BgkgbGltIEqIw YM+GK6p/53B2K8cQiQKbkRf5jBracP3CnAYroURBpsX2A3KIMLp4cqW4; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d95a152022472c7d6cdf886a0424dc6 Mark Butler wrote: > Hello Michael, > > Comments inline. > > Michael Tuexen wrote: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> we discussed this a while ago. I do see the case that a kernel can not >> guarantee this. But the kernel can always fail the setsockopt() call. >> >> It is intended for writing applications, where you know that all >> messages are small and that you have, for instance, the 1-to-1 >> socket API. Then you do not have to write code to reassemble >> messages in the user application. > > My problem is that this option as specified is trying to accomplish > three different things. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT naturally tells the > SCTP implementation that the application wants streaming data at a > typical minimum granualarity, i.e. return whenever at least this much > data is available. > > However, a notification that the application is not prepared to handle > partial deliveries under any circumstances should logically be handled > by a couple of different options. One would disable partial reads, and > the other would set the maximum message size, to prevent denial of > service attacks. I suggest that the former be called SCTP_PARTIAL_READ, > and the latter be called SCTP_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE. I don't see why an app that is aware of this can't just abort if it sees a message without MSG_EOR... > > If you set SCTP_PARTIAL_READ to zero, it would indicate to the stack > that the application will only issue one read per message in all cases, > and any message longer than the read buffer should be truncated and > tagged with MSG_TRUNC according to POSIX convention. I think this is a PR_ATOMIC type behavior, and is best gotten by using SOCK_DGRAM which is by definition PR_ATOMIC.. > > Then SCTP_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE would simply indicate that any message larger > than the specified size is an application level error condition, and the > message should likewise be truncated to the specified size and reported > immediately to the application to prevent large message based denial of > service attacks. I don't see how this is good unless you have PR_ATOMIC type behavior which is a different socket open.. > > And SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT would be an advisory delivery point and > nothing else. Three logically distinct options. > If folks wanted to go down this path I would rather see you open a different socket type.. since PR_ATOMIC is a much different behavior. R > Comments? > > - Mark B. > >> On Apr 21, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> >>>> I just changed the text for the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT from] >>>> >>>> Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery >>>> will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the >>>> user >>>> provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> Note that any single message having a length smaller than or >>>> equal to >>>> the SCTP partial delivery point will be delivered in one single >>>> read >>>> call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold >>>> the >>>> message. >>> >>> >>> I do not recall the discussion on this point, but I don't think this >>> is a promise that can be kept in all cases. Atomic read semantics >>> are attractive, but I don't think they can be provided for >>> relatively arbitrary message sizes without risking deadlock. And >>> even if deadlock can be avoided, this type of guarantee greatly >>> complicates buffer management on the implementation side of things, >>> so code that depends on it is not likely to be portable in any case. >>> >>> So I suggest that this paragraph be deleted. Does anyone have an >>> argument for why this guarantee should remain? >>> >>> - Mark B. >>> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From torger@ludd.ltu.se Mon Apr 23 05:46:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfv7j-0008K2-QC for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:46:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfv7j-0006A2-ID for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:46:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 05:46:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3N9kIlj011952; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:46:18 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3N9jtlG017445; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:45:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3N9jFWl029714 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:45:15 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3N9jF1U029710 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:45:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPgcLEbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,440,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82477488:sNHT33761763" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: text for pd-api changes Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:33:41 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: SCTP Implementors References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <200704230924.25610.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462C78E9.8030708@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462C78E9.8030708@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704231133.41543.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Randall, Diameter is a an extensible protocol which you can build all sorts of applications on top of it. The maximum message size is 16 megabytes, but I don't think any application uses that today. I don't have good enough knowledge about Diameter use today to give any good examples unfortunately. But when the approach is "don't receive any large messages then", then I have to set a specific limit, and then I have to know or make assumption about how large messages I will get, and the code will be specific for just that use case, and I don't like that. A generic Diameter server/stack will not know which type of Diameter messages that will be transported and cannot make such assumptions. Due to that some/many protocols change from TCP to SCTP and are not adapted for SCTP transport from the start, I think that we may see more situations where mapping is more or less sketchy and a quality server thus must be flexible on what it accepts. (On Linux and Solaris the default socket buffer is ~100k) /Anders Torger On Monday 23 April 2007 11:14, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders: > > Just curious.. how large is quite large? > > For BSD, the default socket buffer is 233k.. and assuming > a naive app that does not change the PD-API point.. a > message would need to be over 100k before you would get > a PD-API.. If Diameter uses 100k message.. then you are > right... they are quite large.. :-D > > R > > Anders Torger wrote: > > I know it may seem that I come up with some rather strange use > > cases, but what I'm doing here is seeing how you can write > > fool-proof SCTP code, without having to make a lot of ULP adaptions > > and assumptions. > > > > Some (many?) ULPs that have run over say TCP or UDP before and have > > adapted SCTP as an option, does not well specify how SCTP should be > > used. So in these cases an interoperable server would have to > > expect and work with any kind of mappings, in the worst case no > > mapping between SCTP user messages and ULP messages at all. > > > > In the case of Diameter, messages can also be quite large, so if > > the client choose one Diameter message = one SCTP user message (the > > RFC does not specify), the PD-API would surely be triggered now and > > then for some applications. > > > > To summarize, since SCTP support any size of its user messages, I > > think one should demand from the API that it properly supports > > these situations although rare. > > > > Thus, I withhold that SCTP_EXTRCV should be delivered with every > > recvmsg() to better support partial deliveries. > > > > /Anders Torger From torger@ludd.ltu.se Mon Apr 23 06:06:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvQo-0003AV-0p for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:06:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvQn-00046I-OP for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:06:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 06:06:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NA61Xn020962; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:06:01 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NA5kGd022494; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:05:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NA5c67030082 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:05:38 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NA5c3c030078 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:05:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAKghLEbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,441,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82485790:sNHT26436132" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:47:38 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462B3F25.90100@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462B3F25.90100@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 On Sunday 22 April 2007 12:55, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > I have a few questions about the dynamic data in the notifications: > > > > sac_info in SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE, when it has the abort chunk, will it > > contain the type and length fields of it, or just the error codes? > > Hmm.. you should get the error cause/error message that came > in an abort.. and any user specified info (if it was passed). > Some stacks also will include a protocol-violation code and > some internal numbering that indicates where in their > stack the abort came from... > > So there will be a type/length/data type thing here if > available .. but it may not be from the other end user > app .. unless the cause is USER_INITIATED_ABORT. Perhaps I was not clear in the question, this is an abort chunk: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Type = 6 |Reserved |T| Length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ \ \ / zero or more Error Causes / \ \ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ What I'm wondering is if the first four bytes are included, that is Type, flags, length fields of the SCTP chunk, or if it is only the section with Error Causes (which themselves are type/length/value as you say). It seems to me that the most natural thing would be to skip the first four bytes, since we from the notification already know the total length and that it is an abort chunk. However, the Socket API draft says: "If the sac_state is SCTP_COMM_LOST and an ABORT chunk was received for this association, sac_info[] contains the complete ABORT chunk as defined in the SCTP specification RFC2960 [RFC2960] section 3.3.7." "complete ABORT chunk" indicates that these first four bytes really are included. In any case, I think it would be worthwhile to make this statement in the socket API even more clear (same counts for SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR). > > For the SCTP_SEND_FAILED event, it says that ssf_data contains: > > > > "The undelivered message, exactly as delivered by the caller to the > > original send*() call." > > > > If a large message has been sent using partial sending, how much of > > the message will be returned? The first or the last fragment sent? > > Well.. I cannot speak for other stacks. BSD literally gives you > all of the message. Which means if you don't provide enough space > to read it in.. you get a PD-API scenario.. and no MSG_EOR on the > first read.. :-D Is this really true? Say if I am really bad and use the partial sending API, will the kernel really buffer and keep the full message? So an easy way to make the machine run out of mbufs would be to send an SCTP message that never ends? If so, wouldn't some people consider that to be a DoS issue, although local? /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 06:14:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvZQ-0002sH-Ju for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:14:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfvZQ-0006PX-8R for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:14:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 06:14:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NAEtd2001361; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:14:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NAEUlG000096; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:14:30 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NAD4Nq030180 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:13:04 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NAD44K030176 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:13:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,441,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="139432729:sNHT50485095" Message-Id: <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:15:37 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462B3F25.90100@cisco.com> <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 10:13:00.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9224A20:01C7858F] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3753; t=1177323295; x=1178187295; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Dynamic=20data=20in=20notifications |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=S02l+yITYVtX1ye2RXmxo5m8gzeBMsqcDTgFt50hvR8=; b=AtJpjQA0Gp3ScJrq3Qr1OBbyGc0eGP7xnI9EH157Cohvhqt9ZLcXXe0wKV/9/pq416JjGxHV s9juWjGamKfagr1RciZbtaGX9tGNTC/MBXNRRIohIR43h1Amd0u84HZX; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3753; t=1177323182; x=1178187182; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Dynamic=20data=20in=20notifications |Sender:=20; bh=S02l+yITYVtX1ye2RXmxo5m8gzeBMsqcDTgFt50hvR8=; b=GYqmItf7VWSrbOkN8xPDODSR6jTcgLIZYTnK/+eL3DyByl/IqBOoiS/XhnYg+hy055ghwinQ R7/riBTB6RtEtjqZ4OIHcapzBew7auZ3nQknFVuwHrJHsLZUGKiPLx5M; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 Anders Torger wrote: > On Sunday 22 April 2007 12:55, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> I have a few questions about the dynamic data in the notifications: >>> >>> sac_info in SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE, when it has the abort chunk, will it >>> contain the type and length fields of it, or just the error codes? >> Hmm.. you should get the error cause/error message that came >> in an abort.. and any user specified info (if it was passed). >> Some stacks also will include a protocol-violation code and >> some internal numbering that indicates where in their >> stack the abort came from... >> >> So there will be a type/length/data type thing here if >> available .. but it may not be from the other end user >> app .. unless the cause is USER_INITIATED_ABORT. > > Perhaps I was not clear in the question, this is an abort chunk: > > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Type = 6 |Reserved |T| Length | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > \ \ > / zero or more Error Causes / > \ \ > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > What I'm wondering is if the first four bytes are included, that is > Type, flags, length fields of the SCTP chunk, or if it is only the > section with Error Causes (which themselves are type/length/value as > you say). > > It seems to me that the most natural thing would be to skip the first > four bytes, since we from the notification already know the total > length and that it is an abort chunk. > I would think that the first 4 bytes are not presented as well.. > However, the Socket API draft says: > > "If the sac_state is SCTP_COMM_LOST and an ABORT chunk was received > for this association, sac_info[] contains the complete ABORT chunk as > defined in the SCTP specification RFC2960 [RFC2960] section 3.3.7." > > "complete ABORT chunk" indicates that these first four bytes really are > included. In any case, I think it would be worthwhile to make this > statement in the socket API even more clear (same counts for > SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR). Ahh.. yes.. it really should not have the first 4 bytes.. We probably need to adjust the text to say "will contain any error causes included in the abort" or something like that. What do the rest of y'all think? R > >>> For the SCTP_SEND_FAILED event, it says that ssf_data contains: >>> >>> "The undelivered message, exactly as delivered by the caller to the >>> original send*() call." >>> >>> If a large message has been sent using partial sending, how much of >>> the message will be returned? The first or the last fragment sent? >> Well.. I cannot speak for other stacks. BSD literally gives you >> all of the message. Which means if you don't provide enough space >> to read it in.. you get a PD-API scenario.. and no MSG_EOR on the >> first read.. :-D > > Is this really true? Say if I am really bad and use the partial sending > API, will the kernel really buffer and keep the full message? So an > easy way to make the machine run out of mbufs would be to send an SCTP > message that never ends? If so, wouldn't some people consider that to > be a DoS issue, although local? > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From upsnuthatch@haavik.nu Mon Apr 23 07:04:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfwKu-0006wb-6c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:04:00 -0400 Received: from bzq-88-152-238-153.red.bezeqint.net ([88.152.238.153] helo=haavik.nu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfwKs-0000yK-IX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:04:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c785b0$3ca2f7c0$0076c11c@dudu120> From: "Claudine Brooks" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Or into nymph Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:03:58 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C785B0.3CA2F7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C785B0.3CA2F7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HOT ALERT... 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------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C785B0.3CA2F7C0-- From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Mon Apr 23 10:12:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfzH6-00017u-63 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfzH0-0001Dc-8c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 10:12:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NEC9p6031104; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:12:09 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NEAulG016458; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:10:56 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NE8ofv001575 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:08:50 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NE8ohk001571 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:08:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANhaLEacmf/VoWdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54867026:sNHT22639194" Message-Id: <462CBD57.3090200@hp.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:06:15 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462B3F25.90100@cisco.com> <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: >> On Sunday 22 April 2007 12:55, Randall Stewart wrote: >>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>> I have a few questions about the dynamic data in the notifications: >>>> >>>> sac_info in SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE, when it has the abort chunk, will it >>>> contain the type and length fields of it, or just the error codes? >>> Hmm.. you should get the error cause/error message that came >>> in an abort.. and any user specified info (if it was passed). >>> Some stacks also will include a protocol-violation code and >>> some internal numbering that indicates where in their >>> stack the abort came from... >>> >>> So there will be a type/length/data type thing here if >>> available .. but it may not be from the other end user >>> app .. unless the cause is USER_INITIATED_ABORT. >> >> Perhaps I was not clear in the question, this is an abort chunk: >> >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Type = 6 |Reserved |T| Length | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> \ \ >> / zero or more Error Causes / >> \ \ >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> What I'm wondering is if the first four bytes are included, that is >> Type, flags, length fields of the SCTP chunk, or if it is only the >> section with Error Causes (which themselves are type/length/value as >> you say). >> >> It seems to me that the most natural thing would be to skip the first >> four bytes, since we from the notification already know the total >> length and that it is an abort chunk. >> > > I would think that the first 4 bytes are not presented as well.. > > >> However, the Socket API draft says: >> >> "If the sac_state is SCTP_COMM_LOST and an ABORT chunk was received >> for this association, sac_info[] contains the complete ABORT chunk as >> defined in the SCTP specification RFC2960 [RFC2960] section 3.3.7." >> >> "complete ABORT chunk" indicates that these first four bytes really >> are included. In any case, I think it would be worthwhile to make this >> statement in the socket API even more clear (same counts for >> SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR). > > Ahh.. yes.. it really should not have the first 4 bytes.. I recently coded that up in lksctp and interpreted the spec literally. To me, "complete ABORT chunk" includes the chunk header. I kinda questioned the requirement, but didn't really see a reason not to include the header. > > We probably need to adjust the text to say > "will contain any error causes included in the abort" or something > like that. > > What do the rest of y'all think? Either way is fine, but it does need to be clarified. The way the spec is written now, I interpreted it as "include the header". -vlad From ezhp@a-best-air.com Mon Apr 23 10:50:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfzrr-00071f-9O for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:50:15 -0400 Received: from [211.179.201.104] (helo=46FAD910) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfzrp-0005Wm-CN; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:50:15 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by c13.groups.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:50:37 -0800 Message-ID: <89937682.1897384886993.JavaMail.nfsnobody@washington.com> User-Agent: The Bat! 1.23 X-Handler: Linux Internal X-Antispam-ID: EDA018474852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: scoya@ietf.org, sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org, seamoby@ietf.org, seamoby-admin@ietf.org From: "Prince Macias" Subject: Fantastic low prices here X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Every time piece is guaranteed to be rich in beautiful2 In our online store you can buy replicas of Rolex watches and other brands. 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From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 11:54:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg0sE-00064m-EG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:54:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg0sB-0003qt-41 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:54:42 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 11:54:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NFscgc023616; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:54:38 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NFrvGd019340; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:53:57 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NFqIjP003256 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:18 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NFqInF003252 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:52:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAJNzLEamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54906346:sNHT23272668" Message-Id: <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:42:47 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC / Partial writes References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Randall Stewart wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> ... >> >> To me it seems that it is impossible to properly support a record >> oriented protocol without supporting zero length reads and writes to >> terminate messages when there is no more data. The very fact that >> POSIX documents MSG_EOR implies support for splitting a message into >> multiple writes. And any application that generates a message on >> the fly is going to have situations where there is no more data in >> the current message. And the only available means POSIX provides for >> terminating a message in such a case is a zero length write with >> MSG_EOR set. >> >> ... >> > > Please go look at the current socket api document... > check out SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR Wonderful! I must have missed this - thanks for pointing me in the right direction. > > Note that BSD supports this.. but when I implemented it > I did not expect a user NOT to know it had hit the end > of record without data to write... i.e. you have to > have data to send down in that last write.. It seems > to me you don't realize after the fact that you were > all out of data for that record... but when you are > writing the last piece.. thats when you realize.. hey > this is the last of this record.. I don't think that is a realistic expectation. A typical streaming data interface (CGI for example) will have calls to write data that are distinct from a final "all done" call. If the "all done" indication must be attached to a non-zero length write, it forces the application to hold the last one to see if there is going to be a following end of record in all cases, which is a considerable complication. No one would expect "close" to have to be accompanied by a "write" operation. And as you say, PR-SCTP faces the same problem on read - if a message expires mid-delivery, there generally will not be any more data to deliver. If you do not send MSG_TRUNC and MSG_EOR with a zero length read in such cases, setting MSG_TRUNC on any other occasion is superfluous, because the application is forced to rely on partial delivery abort events instead, which makes the interface unnecessarily complicated. There is a further precedent - RFC2960 states that a "DATA chunk with no user data field will have Length set to 16 (indicating 16 bytes).", implying that even if you cannot have a zero length message, you can have a message terminating DATA chunk with no actual data. This is greatly to be desired, because otherwise the SCTP implementation would have to hold the last write waiting to see if it was going to be the end of record or not, even if the application was not forced to. - Mark B. From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 12:18:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1FZ-00019b-8y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:18:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1FY-0003gR-S5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:18:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 12:18:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NGImr7011718; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:18:48 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NGIYGd027162; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:18:34 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NGI0mO003678 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:18:01 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NGI0Xg003674 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:18:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="480730897:sNHT59115634" Message-Id: <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:20:30 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Detecting aborted partial deliveries with MSG_TRUNC / Partial writes References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 16:17:53.0900 (UTC) FILETIME=[F252A2C0:01C785C2] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5491; t=1177345128; x=1178209128; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC=20/=20Partial=0A=20=20=20=20writes |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=HuXkvaRNhrCglXgkVdb91RG5okHTgwf6AuXnlNW2W3Y=; b=K8QZAO6Sem1JkTBTgsxiSmNU6yhsqZwZVZGT7ZCGo/wsx/mcQFZdd8L8BaciaVRlnrQgVRi4 OyL4im3EaUXtTtL8HZc2PzA6k0F3s9YMSBjVKHPBmHnTMAx+UoEwfgYU; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5491; t=1177345074; x=1178209074; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Detecting=20aborted=20partial=20deliveries=20with=20M SG_TRUNC=20/=20Partial=0A=20=20=20writes |Sender:=20; bh=HuXkvaRNhrCglXgkVdb91RG5okHTgwf6AuXnlNW2W3Y=; b=bw19Jg0B36kgYDnDuweQ3BGNqYeant4Kgmgu+rJXt8NG2CLLt0DuDWSLll+0sNocoH2xOKZC ou5OUIW2kmB2OFyavBsEhVhHpiH5dZ73GhPyO0rwkPph34d4SVj1284V; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93e7fb8fef2e780414389440f367c879 Mark Butler wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> ... >>> >>> To me it seems that it is impossible to properly support a record >>> oriented protocol without supporting zero length reads and writes to >>> terminate messages when there is no more data. The very fact that >>> POSIX documents MSG_EOR implies support for splitting a message into >>> multiple writes. And any application that generates a message on >>> the fly is going to have situations where there is no more data in >>> the current message. And the only available means POSIX provides for >>> terminating a message in such a case is a zero length write with >>> MSG_EOR set. >>> >>> ... >>> >> >> Please go look at the current socket api document... >> check out SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR > > Wonderful! I must have missed this - thanks for pointing me in the > right direction. > >> >> Note that BSD supports this.. but when I implemented it >> I did not expect a user NOT to know it had hit the end >> of record without data to write... i.e. you have to >> have data to send down in that last write.. It seems >> to me you don't realize after the fact that you were >> all out of data for that record... but when you are >> writing the last piece.. thats when you realize.. hey >> this is the last of this record.. > > I don't think that is a realistic expectation. A typical streaming data > interface (CGI for example) will have calls to write data that are > distinct from a final "all done" call. If the "all done" indication > must be attached to a non-zero length write, it forces the application > to hold the last one to see if there is going to be a following end of > record in all cases, which is a considerable complication. No one would > expect "close" to have to be accompanied by a "write" operation. Ok, then this means there will be an extreme cost to an application doing this.. Consider a) SCTP cannot send a data chunk with 0 bytes. b) If a SCTP endpoint begins to start sending data, in response to your users write.. most likely it will get all of this data chunkifed and sent. c) Now your app sends down an "all done" 0 byte write with a MSG_EOR. Now if SCTP has sent all the data previously, there is no way to close the message. Otherwise, you will get the association aborted. So the only way a stack can maintain your semantic of allowing a 0 byte MSG_EOR write to close a message, is to hold the last byte always.. in the event that the user is going to do this.. which means you will often have a 1 byte chunk sent to close a message.. a very poor poor use of the network and quite an overhead to the performance as well.. I think it is worse to push this down to the kernel for some applications that do this.. and thus penalize all SCTP users. It would be far better from a performance perspective to push this back in the app. In fact I don't see the benefit of pushing to the kernel to be exact.. it makes no sense.. You can't do this in UDP.. If you want a streaming semantic, then either TCP is the write on.. or you turn on explict EOR mode and set the PD-API to 1 and then treat the single message as a TCP stream.. then you can have the same semantic as TCP.. i.e. you can do a close() of the association to terminate the MSG_EOR.. and this will work fine with SCTP.. The key thing here is you are trying to put streaming semantics on a MSG oriented delivery.. if you want that enable the options as I said above.. and you will have it. > > And as you say, PR-SCTP faces the same problem on read - if a message > expires mid-delivery, there generally will not be any more data to > deliver. If you do not send MSG_TRUNC and MSG_EOR with a zero length > read in such cases, setting MSG_TRUNC on any other occasion is > superfluous, because the application is forced to rely on partial > delivery abort events instead, which makes the interface unnecessarily > complicated. And there is a protocol mechanism to handle this.. aka FWD-TSN that will cause the PD-API to abort and thats fine.. In the case of the user not sending data and wanting to communicate a end of a segmented message, there is no protocol mechanism for this... > > There is a further precedent - RFC2960 states that a "DATA chunk with no > user data field will have Length set to 16 (indicating 16 bytes).", Thats been fixed in 4460.. you cannot send a zero byte message. The protocol requires an ABORT. I suggest looking at the bis document.. its much easier to follow. > implying that even if you cannot have a zero length message, you can > have a message terminating DATA chunk with no actual data. You cannot do this.. sorry. This is > greatly to be desired, because otherwise the SCTP implementation would > have to hold the last write waiting to see if it was going to be the end > of record or not, even if the application was not forced to. This is my point.. you are attempting to transfer a stream oriented concept to message semantics. If you want stream oriented semantics you either do the socket options as I have said and only send one message (the entire transfer).. or you, the app, hold the last byte to make the determination that yep.. I am all done and then set MSG_EOR. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 13:05:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1zB-0007Tr-1U for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:05:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1z8-0002ez-2L for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:05:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 13:05:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NH5r9x001951; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:05:53 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NH5LlG009361; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:05:21 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NH3wDN004724 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:03:58 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NH3wkf004720 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:03:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FANyDLEamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="54931958:sNHT18669384" Message-Id: <462CE700.80600@middle.net> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:04:00 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors CC: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics / SOCK_DGRAM References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Comments inline. Randall Stewart wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> My problem is that this option as specified is trying to accomplish >> three different things. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT naturally tells >> the SCTP implementation that the application wants streaming data at >> a typical minimum granualarity, i.e. return whenever at least this >> much data is available. >> >> However, a notification that the application is not prepared to >> handle partial deliveries under any circumstances should logically be >> handled by a couple of different options. One would disable partial >> reads, and the other would set the maximum message size, to prevent >> denial of service attacks. I suggest that the former be called >> SCTP_PARTIAL_READ, and the latter be called SCTP_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE. > > > I don't see why an app that is aware of this can't just abort > if it sees a message without MSG_EOR... The problem is that it is unnatural and unnecessary for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT to come with an atomicity guarantee. In particular, as specified, once you set it to a certain value, you can never turn it off, because read atomicity is then enabled no matter what value you set it to after that. In addition, there are many applications of a delivery point that do not need atomicity of any kind, and it adds unnecessary complication and memory pressure on the stack to have it trying to provide atomic delivery when it has no idea whether the application needs it or not, or worse declining the option or failing unnecessarily trying to do so. That is why the delivery point and read atomicity should be specified with different options. The read atomicity option is the natural inverse of SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR. That is why I suggested SCTP_PARTIAL_READ and SCTP_PARTIAL_WRITE as a matched pair. Currently the name SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR is misleading because it only applies to one half of the conversation. One might think it should be set to zero to get read atomicity, and there will be no such effect. To prevent confusion, it would be best to replace it with a pair of options, one for read and one for write. Either that or have it take a structure as an argument.where both are specified independently. >> If you set SCTP_PARTIAL_READ to zero, it would indicate to the stack >> that the application will only issue one read per message in all >> cases, and any message longer than the read buffer should be >> truncated and tagged with MSG_TRUNC according to POSIX convention. > > > I think this is a PR_ATOMIC type behavior, and is best gotten by > using SOCK_DGRAM which is by definition PR_ATOMIC.. .. > If folks wanted to go down this path I would rather see > you open a different socket type.. since PR_ATOMIC > is a much different behavior. I agree, that is why it is unnatural to make such behavior a side effect of setting the partial delivery point (see above). SOCK_DGRAM would be great, although we would need a way to get similar behavior on a one-to-one style socket as well. I suppose since SOCK_SEQPACKET is taken, we could co-opt SOCK_RDM for the 1-1 case. - Mark B. From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 13:36:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg2SM-0000d2-0C for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:36:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg2SK-00028k-L1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:36:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 13:36:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NHa4PM009066; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:36:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NHZdGd019423; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:35:39 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NHYsdU005256 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:34:54 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NHYsJ8005252 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:34:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="770391784:sNHT51996652" Message-Id: <462CEEC0.8000600@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:37:04 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics / SOCK_DGRAM References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> <462CE700.80600@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462CE700.80600@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 17:34:28.0841 (UTC) FILETIME=[A51EFD90:01C785CD] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5001; t=1177349764; x=1178213764; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT=20semantics=20/=20SOCK_DG RAM |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=QtwBo1ANqgCsERggZRQ5jgVQxtyK2rTdEsqO+kTEeGE=; b=cEbCvKm/niGrrOX4RlrnD9C3g3vh8pJ4r9TbyFDBu/s8xdZ9ZhrMFYXlu4eyt/q6PMdvl2ed sHcOi+XAwigfMgl9AnPrfV++krwWuFEsez/706HFwsnnwarRi0fBBZs2; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5001; t=1177349688; x=1178213688; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT=20semantics=20/=20SOCK_DG RAM |Sender:=20; bh=QtwBo1ANqgCsERggZRQ5jgVQxtyK2rTdEsqO+kTEeGE=; b=GDrztlDXq+Q34suHMXvWhqVxvBoQcZ2+o6YbrbyRq5fQJYkQxqclPH21P6Xxf4Wbi22hIMDP vk8tNhtK4ktG/2+59fLO12Y8tp4rNA4dPjV9Yrw9/iOHw0BBCUsl+teg; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a4bc66230659131057bb68ed51598f8 Mark Butler wrote: > Comments inline. > > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> My problem is that this option as specified is trying to accomplish >>> three different things. SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT naturally tells >>> the SCTP implementation that the application wants streaming data at >>> a typical minimum granualarity, i.e. return whenever at least this >>> much data is available. >>> >>> However, a notification that the application is not prepared to >>> handle partial deliveries under any circumstances should logically be >>> handled by a couple of different options. One would disable partial >>> reads, and the other would set the maximum message size, to prevent >>> denial of service attacks. I suggest that the former be called >>> SCTP_PARTIAL_READ, and the latter be called SCTP_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE. >> >> >> I don't see why an app that is aware of this can't just abort >> if it sees a message without MSG_EOR... > > The problem is that it is unnatural and unnecessary for > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT to come with an atomicity guarantee. In > particular, as specified, once you set it to a certain value, you can > never turn it off, because read atomicity is then enabled no matter what > value you set it to after that. I don't grok the above.. there is always a PD-API point the stack holds.. This does not mean when you read you will get more than the size requested.. if it all fits before you read, guess what, you get it all. And changing the value to say 100 bytes.. (not what I would advise but lets go for it).. does not mean that when you read you won't get more than 100 bytes.. since the message will surely have more by the time you read.. add to that I can later change it to 100,000 bytes.. and now the stack will try to avoid PD-API until you have 100,000 bytes in queue... Your statement makes no sense to me... > In addition, there are many applications of a delivery point that do not > need atomicity of any kind, and it adds unnecessary complication and > memory pressure on the stack to have it trying to provide atomic > delivery when it has no idea whether the application needs it or not, or > worse declining the option or failing unnecessarily trying to do so. so turn you msg boundaries off if you don't care or want them.. The reality of many applications is they are dealing in msgs that are a 100 bytes to a few kbytes.. and thus they are never going to see the PD-API unless they want to tweak the stack, for example as Michael illustrated to prevent someone sending a large message that they don't want.. > > That is why the delivery point and read atomicity should be specified > with different options. The read atomicity option is the natural > inverse of SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR. That is why I suggested > SCTP_PARTIAL_READ and SCTP_PARTIAL_WRITE as a matched pair. > > Currently the name SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR is misleading because it only > applies to one half of the conversation. One might think it should be > set to zero to get read atomicity, and there will be no such effect. To > prevent confusion, it would be best to replace it with a pair of > options, one for read and one for write. Either that or have it take a > structure as an argument.where both are specified independently. Can't say I agree with you :-) EOR specify's that the sender is explictily telling when the EOR boundaries are.. if you want to do a stream of bytes you can just set this.. and never specify it .. and close the connection. You thus get TCP emulation.. > >>> If you set SCTP_PARTIAL_READ to zero, it would indicate to the stack >>> that the application will only issue one read per message in all >>> cases, and any message longer than the read buffer should be >>> truncated and tagged with MSG_TRUNC according to POSIX convention. >> >> >> I think this is a PR_ATOMIC type behavior, and is best gotten by >> using SOCK_DGRAM which is by definition PR_ATOMIC.. > > ... > >> If folks wanted to go down this path I would rather see >> you open a different socket type.. since PR_ATOMIC >> is a much different behavior. > > > I agree, that is why it is unnatural to make such behavior a side effect > of setting the partial delivery point (see above). There is no such side effect.. setting the PD-API point just tells the stack to start the PD-API ahead of where it normally would have. It is more of a protection OR a way to emulate TCP if you so desire.. aka set PD-API to 1 byte.. with the other side doing a EOR mode and NOT ever ending the message.. R > > SOCK_DGRAM would be great, although we would need a way to get similar > behavior on a one-to-one style socket as well. I suppose since > SOCK_SEQPACKET is taken, we could co-opt SOCK_RDM for the 1-1 case. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Mon Apr 23 14:31:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3JW-0003OX-EM for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:31:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3JV-0007F1-74 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:31:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 14:31:00 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NIV0s3018447; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:31:00 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NIU9Gd009525; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:30:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NISWwX006230 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:28:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NISWpc006226 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:28:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABCYLEaI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACQDQEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82704314:sNHT23942313" Message-Id: <462CFA29.8050007@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:25:45 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462B3F25.90100@cisco.com> <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 18:26:07.0742 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC35C1E0:01C785D4] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 > We probably need to adjust the text to say > "will contain any error causes included in the abort" or something > like that. > > What do the rest of y'all think? Sounds reasonable to me. - jana -- Janardhan R. Iyengar Visiting Assistant Professor Connecticut College http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 14:46:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3YX-00025y-8H for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:46:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg3YW-00048m-08 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:46:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 14:46:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NIkV8Z020278; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:46:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NIk2lG014387; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:46:02 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NIjK9W006541 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:20 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NIjKjX006536 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:45:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAHmbLEamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82711199:sNHT29617092" Message-Id: <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:45:18 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Zero length message terminators References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Randall Stewart wrote: .. > Thats been fixed in 4460.. you cannot send a zero byte message. The > protocol requires an ABORT. I am aware that one cannot send a zero length message. However, the prohibition of zero length message _fragments_ in the 2960bis draft seems like an unnecessary restriction to me. Zero length message terminators are very useful. The case where you want to send part of a message before you know if there will be any more is very common. And you cannot do that if you cannot terminate a message after the fact. Holding back a single byte is ugly, and will often eliminate the benefit of sending the preceding fragment in the first place. .. > > This is my point.. you are attempting to transfer a stream oriented > concept to message semantics. If you want stream oriented semantics > you either do the socket options as I have said and only send > one message (the entire transfer).. or you, the app, hold > the last byte to make the determination that yep.. I am all done > and then set MSG_EOR. In order to reliably send and receive arbitrary size messages, it is a technical necessity to break up messages into multiple reads and writes, and use a streaming, non-atomic interface style. On send for example, you cannot send large messages unless SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR is enabled and you let the stack take as much data as it can handle. An atomic send of a message larger than the send buffer is impossible to provide, due to issues with signals. So given that this MSG_EOR oriented streaming programming style is a necessity, and the semantic equivalent of record terminating zero length reads is a necessity (for PR-SCTP), why should the protocol be artificially restricted to prohibit record terminating zero length writes? Are there any benefits to such a prohibition? The alternative is to say that SCTP does not natively support dynamic generation of large messages, which eliminates a key advantage over TCP for a considerable class of applications. - Mark B. From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 16:17:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg4yn-0005MU-Vl for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:17:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg4yn-000668-GJ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:17:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 16:17:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NKHiVl004606; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:17:44 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NKGnGd017349; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:16:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NKFINW008103 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:15:18 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NKFIEh008099 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:15:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AlwPAIWwLEamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaWc4iXg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="82743377:sNHT44198532" Message-Id: <462D13DA.8080009@middle.net> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:15:22 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics / SOCK_DGRAM References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> <462CE700.80600@middle.net> <462CEEC0.8000600@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462CEEC0.8000600@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080007090406000902050300" X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080007090406000902050300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randall Stewart wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> The problem is that it is unnatural and unnecessary for >> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT to come with an atomicity guarantee. In >> particular, as specified, once you set it to a certain value, you can >> never turn it off, because read atomicity is then enabled no matter >> what value you set it to after that. > > I don't grok the above.. there is always a PD-API point the stack > holds.. This does not mean when you read you will get more than > the size requested.. if it all fits before you read, guess what, you > get it all. And changing the value to say 100 bytes.. (not what I would > advise but lets go for it).. does not mean that when you read you > won't get more than 100 bytes.. since the message will surely have > more by the time you read.. add to that I can later change it to > 100,000 bytes.. and now the stack will try to avoid PD-API until you > have 100,000 bytes in queue... You say "try". The rfc-diff says "will". One is advisory. The other is a promise. Hence the issue. This is a significant change in semantics. The SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT section in draft 14 reads: This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will be invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. The calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery point. However, in the rfc-diff you recently posted (on 5/21), it now reads: This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will be invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. The calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery point. Note also that the call will fail if the user attempts to set this value larger than the socket receive buffer size. Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. I refer to the added last sentence of the first paragraph and the second paragraph. They completely change the semantics of the option from an advisory value to one that makes a atomicity promise. Without this text, the partial delivery point is merely advisory. And presumably it defaults to a maximum value such that deliveries (and the corresponding context switch overhead, etc) occur no more often than necessary. And an application may very well set it to some other value greater than the available resources with no effect, because it is merely advisory. But with the text, the semantics are atomic for messages smaller than the partial delivery point no matter what it is, up to and including the socket buffer size. That promise cannot be portably kept on M:M style sockets, nor if the OS uses total overhead based accounting instead of counting data bytes only. (Of course if it doesn't use overhead based accounting it is vulnerable to a small fragment based denial of service attack). These are different requirements with different default behavior. The default for an advisory value is unlimited or "only when you have to". Whereas, a mandatory value implies a completely different socket type, one where if you deliver early you will break the application. Essentially a SOCK_DGRAM style socket. It seems to me that advisory behavior is much more robust, and an atomic "delivery point" equivalent to the socket buffer size all but impossible to guarantee. That is why I believe that atomic behavior should be specifically requested. - Mark B. --------------080007090406000902050300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randall Stewart wrote:
Mark Butler wrote:
The problem is that it is unnatural and unnecessary for SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT to come with an atomicity guarantee.   In particular, as specified, once you set it to a certain value, you can never turn it off, because read atomicity is then enabled no matter what value you set it to after that.
I don't grok the above.. there is always a PD-API point the stack
holds.. This does not mean when you read you will get more than
the size requested.. if it all fits before you read, guess what, you
get it all. And changing the value to say 100 bytes.. (not what I would
advise but lets go for it).. does not mean that when you read you
won't get more than 100 bytes.. since the message will surely have
more by the time you read.. add to that I can later change it to
100,000 bytes.. and now the stack will try to avoid PD-API until you
have 100,000 bytes in queue...
You say "try".  The rfc-diff says "will".  One is advisory.  The other is a promise.  Hence the issue.

This is a significant change in semantics. The SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT section in draft 14 reads:
This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will be invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. The calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery point.
  However, in the rfc-diff you recently posted (on 5/21), it now reads:
This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will be invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to a lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. The calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial delivery point. Note also that the call will fail if the user attempts to set this value larger than the socket receive buffer size.   
           
Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user provided buffer is large enough to hold the message.
I refer to the added last sentence of the first paragraph and the second paragraph.  They completely change the semantics of the option from an advisory value to one that makes a atomicity promise.

Without this text, the partial delivery point is merely advisory.  And presumably it defaults to a maximum value such that deliveries (and the corresponding context switch overhead, etc) occur no more often than necessary.  And an application may very well set it to some other value greater than the available resources with no effect, because it is merely advisory.

But with the text, the semantics are atomic for messages smaller than the partial delivery point no matter what it is, up to and including the socket buffer size.  That promise cannot be portably kept on M:M style sockets, nor if the OS uses total overhead based accounting instead of counting data bytes only. (Of course if it doesn't use overhead based accounting it is vulnerable to a small fragment based denial of service attack).

These are different requirements with different default behavior.  The default for an advisory value is unlimited or "only when you have to".  Whereas, a mandatory value implies a completely different socket type, one where if you deliver early you will break the application.  Essentially a SOCK_DGRAM style socket.

It seems to me that advisory behavior is much more robust, and an atomic "delivery point" equivalent to the socket buffer size all but impossible to guarantee.  That is why I believe that atomic behavior should be specifically requested.

- Mark B.
--------------080007090406000902050300-- From ozgnk@henderson.main.nc.us Mon Apr 23 18:18:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6rS-0000og-50 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:18:18 -0400 Received: from adsl196-18-86-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma ([196.206.86.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg6rM-0005h5-0i for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:18:18 -0400 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.289 [265.0.0]); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:07:54 +0200 Received: from ind ([86.36.124.173]) by adsl196-88-71-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:07:54 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c785da$b237baf0$ad7c2456@ind> From: "attraction" To: Subject: It's also inconvenient if the porn star wannabe didn't bother to get a babysitter before showing up to the shoot. Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:07:54 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-462D040B1905=======" X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cb592aae7f4601895f35714165597859 --=======AVGMAIL-462D040B1905======= Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C785EB.75AE3B70" ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C785EB.75AE3B70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C785EB.75B2CF50" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C785EB.75B2CF50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But then again I liked him. I sat by the phone, heart beating hard. That was my second feature movie, simply called, "Mermaid. "Violence is = one of the strongest feelings there is. I went over to Betty who was sitting in the zebra-skin chair. A star was a star in any industry. Bernard's work paid off. I've = probably heard it before. I'll do it somewhere else. "I have to go to work. Eventually the money ran out and I had to support us with a waitressing = job. I have been interested in doing something kind of creative, and I know = that sounds stupid but I have a lot of ideas for funny stuff to be in a = porn movie. The tension eventually eased up and Andrew and I began talking like = people. It's the last time I'll ask you," and put a hand on my shoulder. My = heart beat slow and deep. His voice switched from syrup to needles. I thought Far Out was an omen. "Al Harvey made me suck him off," I told her. I called immediately. I kinda landed here on accident while searching for something esle, but = nice blog. I can't call in sick. I can't call in sick. We're in the industry. The film really was better than most. But I had forgotten how to deal with straight people. Al's grip on my neck tightened as he pushed me all the way back to his = master bedroom. The second time he forced me to for real. "It's a better release than sex," she told me one morning as we were = lying naked on an orange shag rug waiting for the cameras to be set up. = "Have you ever tried smack, Shirl? I thought Far Out was an omen. ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C785EB.75B2CF50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"vanilla"
But then again I liked = him.
I sat by the phone, heart beating=20 hard.
That was my second feature movie, = simply called,=20 "Mermaid. "Violence is one of the strongest feelings there = is.
I went over to Betty who was sitting in = the=20 zebra-skin chair.
A star was a star in any industry. = Bernard's work=20 paid off. I've probably heard it before.
I'll do it somewhere else.
"I have to go to work.
Eventually the money ran out and I had = to support=20 us with a waitressing job.
I have been interested in doing = something kind of=20 creative, and I know that sounds stupid but I have a lot of ideas for = funny stuff to=20 be in a porn movie.
The tension eventually eased up and = Andrew and I=20 began talking like people.
It's the last time I'll ask you," and = put a hand on=20 my shoulder. My heart beat slow and deep.
His voice switched from syrup to = needles. I thought=20 Far Out was an omen.
"Al Harvey made me suck him off," I = told her. I=20 called immediately.
I kinda landed here on accident while = searching for=20 something esle, but nice blog.
I can't call in sick.
I can't call in sick. We're in the=20 industry.
The film really was better than = most.
But I had forgotten how to deal with = straight=20 people.
Al's grip on my neck tightened as he = pushed me all=20 the way back to his master bedroom.
The second time he forced me to for=20 real.
"It's a better release than sex," she = told me one=20 morning as we were lying naked on an orange shag rug waiting for the = cameras to be=20 set up. "Have you ever tried smack, Shirl?
I thought Far Out was an=20 omen.
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Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release Date: 08/11/2004 --=======AVGMAIL-462D040B1905=======-- From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 19:47:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg8G6-00005t-F6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:47:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg8G6-0008El-3r for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:47:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 19:47:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NNlnX2026775; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:47:49 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NNkOGd006686; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:46:24 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NNhSl5011972 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:43:28 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NNhSYa011968 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:43:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="414750161:sNHT56188276" Message-Id: <462D452D.8000901@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:45:49 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics / SOCK_DGRAM References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> <462CE700.80600@middle.net> <462CEEC0.8000600@cisco.com> <462D13DA.8080009@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462D13DA.8080009@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 23:43:13.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[28529AE0:01C78601] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5163; t=1177372069; x=1178236069; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT=20semantics=20/=20SOCK_DG RAM |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=tkGrc/qOKZbmCxChouh13SJsBH6XGber3KoCbfVIOyU=; b=aiH4WhMmEceKBB613y2kLUgq6rtM5bFS2TaJA+c+SuhPHWfovks4q1tcp9VUwValyftRfLGO hUrjAr2f9Ctkwci/LOP0DNsi+24ZHxPKznqoLUwLVCren3FcEU6UleKY; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5163; t=1177371802; x=1178235802; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT=20semantics=20/=20SOCK_DG RAM |Sender:=20; bh=tkGrc/qOKZbmCxChouh13SJsBH6XGber3KoCbfVIOyU=; b=QWffAxloYnAfKsdXhjsjFWMtOdKu+IVau7hgjexRh73ZqKcyBWAcPUqhf7Db73yY8mAjtjJQ wbEoSbiYEYQD2ESOE8I4FeNd5/eI/2KLB+inA3VHdtcWXhQQCwPSexrsh74ok5e6CJ3h9CdhRe ZzL8Pb5AOacH9Z3noYutm12O4=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2857c5c041d6c02d7181d602c22822c8 Mark Butler wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Mark Butler wrote: >>> The problem is that it is unnatural and unnecessary for >>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT to come with an atomicity guarantee. In >>> particular, as specified, once you set it to a certain value, you can >>> never turn it off, because read atomicity is then enabled no matter >>> what value you set it to after that. >> I don't grok the above.. there is always a PD-API point the stack >> holds.. This does not mean when you read you will get more than >> the size requested.. if it all fits before you read, guess what, you >> get it all. And changing the value to say 100 bytes.. (not what I would >> advise but lets go for it).. does not mean that when you read you >> won't get more than 100 bytes.. since the message will surely have >> more by the time you read.. add to that I can later change it to >> 100,000 bytes.. and now the stack will try to avoid PD-API until you >> have 100,000 bytes in queue... > You say "try". The rfc-diff says "will". One is advisory. The other > is a promise. Hence the issue. > > This is a significant change in semantics. The > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT section in draft 14 reads: > > This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This > point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will > be invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to > a lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. > The calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial > delivery point. > > However, in the rfc-diff you recently posted (on 5/21), it now reads: > > This option will set or get the SCTP partial delivery point. This > point is the size of a message where the partial delivery API will > be invoked to help free up rwnd space for the peer. Setting this to > a lower value will cause partial delivery's to happen more often. > The calls argument is an integer that sets or gets the partial > delivery point. Note also that the call will fail if the user > attempts to set this value larger than the socket receive buffer > size. > > Note that any single message smaller than the SCTP partial delivery > will be delivered in one single read return call as long as the user > provided buffer is large enough to hold the message. A couple of things... maybe more. a) I did not add these.. Michael did, and I believe he posted his reasons why. b) I can't see how failing the call if the user tries to set it bigger than the rwnd makes any sort of commitment.. thats just a sanity check.. c) And the last paragraph is a statement of what the stack will do if it has a single message smaller than the PD-API point.. d) Add to that this is an informational rfc.. which means, as many have pointed out often, it has no binding... whatsoever :-0 > > I refer to the added last sentence of the first paragraph and the second > paragraph. They completely change the semantics of the option from an > advisory value to one that makes a atomicity promise. Promises only come in standards track RFC's and they say things like MUST and SHOULD.. > > Without this text, the partial delivery point is merely advisory. And > presumably it defaults to a maximum value such that deliveries (and the > corresponding context switch overhead, etc) occur no more often than > necessary. And an application may very well set it to some other value > greater than the available resources with no effect, because it is > merely advisory. I disagree.. just because the stack sanity checks your value you DO NOT get a commitment from the stack. Set your stack's recv socket buffer to the largest you can.. there is no 100% assurance that you have that much data reserved.. > > But with the text, the semantics are atomic for messages smaller than > the partial delivery point no matter what it is, up to and including the > socket buffer size. That promise cannot be portably kept on M:M style > sockets, nor if the OS uses total overhead based accounting instead of > counting data bytes only. (Of course if it doesn't use overhead based > accounting it is vulnerable to a small fragment based denial of service > attack). I don't read it that way.. R > > These are different requirements with different default behavior. The > default for an advisory value is unlimited or "only when you have to". > Whereas, a mandatory value implies a completely different socket type, > one where if you deliver early you will break the application. > Essentially a SOCK_DGRAM style socket. > > It seems to me that advisory behavior is much more robust, and an atomic > "delivery point" equivalent to the socket buffer size all but impossible > to guarantee. That is why I believe that atomic behavior should be > specifically requested. > > - Mark B. -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 23 19:49:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg8HT-0000Je-VZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:49:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg8HS-0000Hk-Lw for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:49:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 19:49:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3NNnCSS019788; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:49:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3NNn4Gd007176; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:49:04 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3NNma8S012071 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:36 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3NNmaSr012067 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:48:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,443,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="414751805:sNHT50502652" Message-Id: <462D466D.1060704@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:51:09 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Zero length message terminators References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2007 23:48:33.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[E74F1F40:01C78601] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2693; t=1177372152; x=1178236152; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Zero=20length=20message=20terminators |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=eXS1TnzPZevko7FtL2DP7yQ5KBvDwzu5iumf9v9srrw=; b=QJBmSi1SGtVNrVpD8yj/I/WwE+DAiKEaot+SISBiFLWM4WR1++iHsRPne7iG4LtBMgReWtYr DyH5dwVgnAFO+c0I/Mwt/f69KblCYkVnadEdmuCOBsfbmH37hOyIKV3e; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2693; t=1177372114; x=1178236114; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Zero=20length=20message=20terminators |Sender:=20; bh=eXS1TnzPZevko7FtL2DP7yQ5KBvDwzu5iumf9v9srrw=; b=l6pMhnEAIcjcoUPLnWR9zLxxCZtjGC8LS77qaPt+S6MyCNBIQtGZubn6UiyQf3hQrEY0u9qV bmPmPDTE9K+cp5eBdRFhMdhuPmwC927OsBqLBYNmKjzejzyNCLI945VnZoRw0qWvl7SusQzxIx gxhQQLnh/LViwCy/SWdKkFcMg=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Mark Butler wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > > .. > >> Thats been fixed in 4460.. you cannot send a zero byte message. The >> protocol requires an ABORT. > > I am aware that one cannot send a zero length message. However, the > prohibition of zero length message _fragments_ in the 2960bis draft > seems like an unnecessary restriction to me. Zero length message > terminators are very useful. > > The case where you want to send part of a message before you know if > there will be any more is very common. And you cannot do that if you > cannot terminate a message after the fact. Holding back a single byte > is ugly, and will often eliminate the benefit of sending the preceding > fragment in the first place. sorry.. you don't change the protocol to adapt to the API... > .. > >> >> This is my point.. you are attempting to transfer a stream oriented >> concept to message semantics. If you want stream oriented semantics >> you either do the socket options as I have said and only send >> one message (the entire transfer).. or you, the app, hold >> the last byte to make the determination that yep.. I am all done >> and then set MSG_EOR. > > In order to reliably send and receive arbitrary size messages, it is a > technical necessity to break up messages into multiple reads and writes, > and use a streaming, non-atomic interface style. On send for example, > you cannot send large messages unless SCTP_EXPLICIT_EOR is enabled and > you let the stack take as much data as it can handle. An atomic send of > a message larger than the send buffer is impossible to provide, due to > issues with signals. So use EOR mode and set the EOR point when you are done.. not a problem.. > > So given that this MSG_EOR oriented streaming programming style is a > necessity, and the semantic equivalent of record terminating zero length > reads is a necessity (for PR-SCTP), I disagree.. you are adding that requirement to fit the stack. why should the protocol be > artificially restricted to prohibit record terminating zero length > writes? Are there any benefits to such a prohibition? > > The alternative is to say that SCTP does not natively support dynamic > generation of large messages, which eliminates a key advantage over TCP > for a considerable class of applications. And I disagree with this last.. You can generate a dynamically large message any time you want.. and if you don't know where it will end then fine, always hang on to the last byte until you know. R > > - Mark B. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From shenyanrong@hotmail.com Mon Apr 23 21:37:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg9yR-00089u-Cp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:37:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg9yQ-0001HF-5l for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:37:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 21:37:43 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3O1bfAr016236; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:37:41 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3O1ajlG025299; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:36:45 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3O1ZEuK013912 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:35:14 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3O1ZEV3013908 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:35:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to shenyanrong@hotmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 65.54.246.88 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAKH7LEZBNvZYjGdsb2JhbACOdYEYAQEBCA4HBhYH X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,444,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82827391:sNHT14398016652" Message-Id: X-Originating-Ip: [70.22.136.95] X-Originating-Email: [shenyanrong@hotmail.com] X-Sender: shenyanrong@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <462D466D.1060704@cisco.com> From: "yanrong shen" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:33:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 01:33:59.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1800970:01C78610] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=shenyanrong@hotmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Please remove my e-mail from this list. Thanks. From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 23:16:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBVZ-0005NW-6z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:16:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBVY-00012p-06 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:16:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 23:15:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3O3Fv0i017110; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:15:57 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3O3EslG012647; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:14:54 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3O3Dj2w015414 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:13:45 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3O3Djjr015410 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:13:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAPYSLUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,444,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55076128:sNHT17150976" Message-Id: <462D73BC.40906@middle.net> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:04:28 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_POINT semantics References: <4629F9C9.8090402@cisco.com> <462A7895.4070304@middle.net> <65276120-2353-4EA8-9283-4A4A86ED3918@micmac.franken.de> <462C49DA.9010300@middle.net> <462C7A29.3040802@cisco.com> <462CE700.80600@middle.net> <462CEEC0.8000600@cisco.com> <462D13DA.8080009@middle.net> <462D452D.8000901@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462D452D.8000901@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Randall Stewart wrote: > > I disagree.. just because the stack sanity checks your value you > DO NOT get a commitment from the stack. Set your stack's recv > socket buffer to the largest you can.. there is no 100% assurance > that you have that much data reserved.. I agree, that is why I am suggesting that the language be clarified. That could be done by inserting a single word in the last paragraph. A change from "will" to "will attempt" would be sufficient. I am not suggesting that the language is binding. But at least it should not be misleading. Michael, does that make sense to you? - Mark B. From butlerm@middle.net Mon Apr 23 23:26:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBfa-0007F6-W6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:26:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBfY-00021S-OX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:26:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Apr 2007 23:26:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3O3QKN2013555; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:26:20 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3O3QGlG014999; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:26:16 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3O3PjsI015625 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:25:45 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3O3Pjum015621 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:25:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAEsVLUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,444,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55078476:sNHT22910166" Message-Id: <462D78BF.1060301@middle.net> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:25:51 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Zero length message terminators References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> <462D466D.1060704@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462D466D.1060704@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Randall Stewart wrote: > Mark Butler wrote: > >> The case where you want to send part of a message before you know if >> there will be any more is very common. And you cannot do that if you >> cannot terminate a message after the fact. Holding back a single >> byte is ugly, and will often eliminate the benefit of sending the >> preceding fragment in the first place. > > sorry.. you don't change the protocol to adapt to the API... It seems to me that the only reason the protocol exists is to serve common application requirements. This is a purely artificial constraint that has no added value whatsoever that is only clearly expressed in a document that is still in draft form. Implementations would actually get simpler if it were removed. However, if no one else feels that it would be change worth having, I won't belabor the point. - Mark B. From rhrevile@3td.net Tue Apr 24 01:41:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgDmJ-000780-9U for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:41:27 -0400 Received: from [211.150.218.203] (helo=3td.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgDmD-0004vN-LG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:41:26 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c78676$3eb34f30$000d0ba4@IBME04A82743CE> From: "Christa Logan" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Or implausible between quadripartite Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:41:21 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78676.3EB34F30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.4682 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78676.3EB34F30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HOT ALERT!!! 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------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78676.3EB34F30-- From gobbo.max@libero.it Tue Apr 24 05:04:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgGwv-0000az-BU for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:04:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgGws-0001iC-2p for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:04:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 05:04:34 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3O94X8v014066; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:04:33 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3O93UlG015424; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:03:30 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3O91gFj021904 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:01:42 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3O91glL021900 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:01:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to gobbo.max@libero.it using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 212.52.84.42 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALBjLUbUNFQqhmdsb2JhbACQDAEBAQgMCQYWBw X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,445,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55143461:sNHT22301748" X-Scanned: with antispam and antivirus automated system at libero.it Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:52:06 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "gobbo\.max\@libero\.it" To: "sctp-impl" X-Xam3-Api-Version: 4.3 (R1) (B3pl19) X-Senderip: 82.189.181.2 Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=gobbo.max@libero.it; dkim=neutral Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailguard.cisco.com id l3O91eVF021896 X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Please remove my e-mail from this list. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------ Leggi GRATIS le tue mail con il telefonino i-mode di Wind http://i-mode.wind.it/ From rrs@cisco.com Tue Apr 24 05:16:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgH86-00029G-Sc for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:16:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgH86-0004FY-K9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:16:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 05:16:10 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3O9G9OG017070; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:16:09 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3O9FklG017785; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:15:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3O9EYkT022271 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:14:35 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3O9EYjc022267 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:14:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,446,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="480961621:sNHT53164068" Message-Id: <462DCB06.2040005@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:16:54 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Zero length message terminators References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462965C3.80908@middle.net> <46299D7E.2010602@sun.com> <200704210921.50601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <4629CB96.6050009@middle.net> <4629F813.9070703@cisco.com> <462A661C.2020009@middle.net> <462B3FDD.1000800@cisco.com> <462C444B.5030705@middle.net> <462C774A.3000203@cisco.com> <462CD3F7.70000@middle.net> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> <462D466D.1060704@cisco.com> <462D78BF.1060301@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462D78BF.1060301@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 09:14:19.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0B073F0:01C78650] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1910; t=1177406170; x=1178270170; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Zero=20length=20message=20terminators |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=UP8Bxzd2NtQOWMO6iRZrK3AsEB+VMXu8UmZWEk/T6Yw=; b=j0RXglCxhYWqBoSwW5vv3LtUYBmoeC5xuKOX0sjUiVZsRiAwQ0DsOC0Gf+6riSx687LEiXnK CTbnKMIugrpm3rKnfZOfwEZihV1R5Vo2uZp53bgjwdxHnYpGuDIq6S4g; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1910; t=1177406073; x=1178270073; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Zero=20length=20message=20terminators |Sender:=20; bh=UP8Bxzd2NtQOWMO6iRZrK3AsEB+VMXu8UmZWEk/T6Yw=; b=Ew9w4sMWuM05nxwtue3+3eBEe6sbUaIcUyQ/Mo/a6X2Enlycc531pulbjcq7o4pyk3jI2fUn ur7q7bMdneS+gUjqIFPOwUhdFyK0WYnDzc3MZ7VAXhHbMgSwkcXPmF+N; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Mark Butler wrote: > Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> The case where you want to send part of a message before you know if >>> there will be any more is very common. And you cannot do that if you >>> cannot terminate a message after the fact. Holding back a single >>> byte is ugly, and will often eliminate the benefit of sending the >>> preceding fragment in the first place. >> >> sorry.. you don't change the protocol to adapt to the API... > > > It seems to me that the only reason the protocol exists is to serve > common application requirements. This is a purely artificial constraint > that has no added value whatsoever that is only clearly expressed in a > document that is still in draft form. Implementations would actually > get simpler if it were removed. > However, if no one else feels that it would be change worth having, I > won't belabor the point. > > - Mark B. > Mark: The sigtran group, at one time, had a "zero length message" allowed.. and we actually used this to "skip msgs" like PR-SCTP. In the final IESG comments.. this was taken out... can't remember why. We have discussed this in the past.. I don't see the value.. and for the majority case I don't think its a problem. I have been developing applications for almost 30 years now.. and very very rarely has there ever been an app that I did not know where the message ended a priori.. so I find your scenario rather strange IMO.. I will admit most of my app development as been in the telco space but I have been associated with a LOT of non-telco projects as well... and it just seems strange to me. If you truly have a HUGE message that you have no idea where the end of the message is, then maybe TCP is a better fit for it then SCTP.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From torger@ludd.ltu.se Tue Apr 24 06:49:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgIai-0007en-G7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:49:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgIah-0002XO-9E for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:49:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 06:49:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OAnkPE002124; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:49:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OAn3lG007549; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:49:03 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OAlnjq023717 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:47:49 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OAlnPN023713 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:47:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIh8LUbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,446,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="82977330:sNHT426038094" From: Anders Torger To: Mark Butler Subject: Re: Zero length message terminators Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:35:58 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704241235.58535.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 On Monday 23 April 2007 20:45, Mark Butler wrote: > The alternative is to say that SCTP does not natively support dynamic > generation of large messages, which eliminates a key advantage over > TCP for a considerable class of applications. Really? I think I agree with Randall here, I don't really see how the code is constructed in order *not* to know that the last fragment you send is the last of a particular ULP message. Since that case would not only require extra system calls to terminate messages, it also requires sending zero size message over the protocol, it seems to be an inefficient way to send dynamically sized messages. Thus one would not want to design code that way. 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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C786A3.8E9E9FE0-- From Jannik-Parmar@ONEILL.COM Tue Apr 24 08:17:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgJxP-0000Ox-Pt for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:17:19 -0400 Received: from [213.157.13.90] (helo=icroedermark.heagmedianet.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgJxO-00006j-EZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:17:19 -0400 Received: by 10.150.107.10 with SMTP id TiqCZxwVIqLDc; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:17:21 +0200 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.45.73 with SMTP id pVMXeZyZLtKTRU.5601433097977; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:17:19 +0200 (GMT) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:17:16 +0200 From: "Jannik Parmar" Reply-To: "Jannik Parmar" Message-ID: <250176436580.249000292884@ONEILL.COM> To: Subject: Germany has never been hotter! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db http://i83.imagethrust.com/i/1058760/hcjcngqz.png Symbol alert. The answer is even more interesting, since this exact thing came up for me yesterday, and I didn't know why it happened. From torger@ludd.ltu.se Tue Apr 24 09:37:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgLDM-0005EM-GV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgLDL-0000hI-MQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 09:37:47 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ODbkYe006620; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:37:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ODb5lG022849; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:37:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ODYi0G026614 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:34:44 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ODYiQ9026610 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:34:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAGCkLUbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDAEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83036759:sNHT32285871" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: PR-SCTP Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:23:05 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets API draft? Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending side. /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Tue Apr 24 09:45:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgLKP-00086F-Vz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:45:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgLKN-0002tj-OR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:45:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 09:45:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ODj7Te017896; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:45:07 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ODirGd028193; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:44:53 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ODiaFI026771 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:44:36 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ODiaNd026767 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:44:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="414983108:sNHT12836704010" Message-Id: <462E0A52.4050106@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:46:58 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 13:44:24.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB3AF860:01C78676] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=500; t=1177422307; x=1178286307; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=pTvUNyXQIDOxbVWWCDCImcz6WF+I77Me0KvKnCjdpBw=; b=FT00HuOjb0IlY7s7XqgodPvNXSFt/FVlP0oUtUjEZ2Xt4Y9eqlucsf4CIIv7m2xVJ8e7YMg3 QHEcgA0yNg5LVxE0oAkpamfxZMg3kaI1kTN8kcPOwAcWV0IJa0HGAw7v; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=500; t=1177422265; x=1178286265; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20; bh=pTvUNyXQIDOxbVWWCDCImcz6WF+I77Me0KvKnCjdpBw=; b=lNzL3vjl9onVyXdoOgp9PxhNa3veMhIjNQLvNe789h6gbbmRzJBYFjRlL6imwgDjN8fVbG92 uAyE9mEZp1AxhLB92HNjiJ674gBn1fNrD/WYRa/qV5GnwNCrCkgw19odANvGl3HqpEhe8hoPbW 3uFdyqASjd9rd22+42RNaToYs=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Anders Torger wrote: > Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets API > draft? > > Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side > (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending side. > > /Anders Torger > Drats.. I thought we had put the PR_XXX flags in.. Hmm .. Michael, we need to document your nifty way of doing this.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Tue Apr 24 09:52:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgLRA-0008Bq-Lh for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:52:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgLR9-0005aB-Ez for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:52:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 09:52:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ODq5Qn014064; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:52:05 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ODpiGd000294; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:51:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3ODpD5L026887 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:51:13 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3ODpDAK026883 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:51:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 192.151.27.10 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOSnLUbAlxsKmGdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDio X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83043716:sNHT443199951" Message-Id: <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:49:28 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070403) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Anders Torger wrote: > Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets API > draft? > > Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side > (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending side. The sending side uses timetolive (sinfo_timetolive) and will notify the app using SEND_FAILED event in case the message was not sent/received in time. At least that's what Linux does. -vlad > > /Anders Torger > From torger@ludd.ltu.se Tue Apr 24 10:33:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgM4w-0001M4-Fg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:33:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgM4v-0000TU-8f for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:33:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:33:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OEXBV2006935; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:33:11 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OEWwGd015509; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:32:59 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OEWOHn027634 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:32:24 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OEWOB5027630 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:32:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFSwLUbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83064285:sNHT3888626382" From: Anders Torger To: Vlad Yasevich Subject: Re: PR-SCTP Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:20:26 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 I figured that out, but there seems to be a global enable flag for PR-SCTP (proc/sys/net/sctp/prsctp_enable), you cannot choose per message if it should be partially reliable or not. In Solaris there is the SCTP_PRSCTP socket option, and the MSG_PR_SCTP flag so one can choose if the time-to-live member should count only until the message hits the wire or if it should be partial reliable. These flags are however not discussed in the current socket API draft. /Anders Torger On Tuesday 24 April 2007 15:49, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets > > API draft? > > > > Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side > > (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending > > side. > > The sending side uses timetolive (sinfo_timetolive) and will notify > the app using SEND_FAILED event in case the message was not > sent/received in time. At least that's what Linux does. > > -vlad > > > /Anders Torger From torger@ludd.ltu.se Tue Apr 24 10:43:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMEf-0004Zz-8I for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:43:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMEe-0003Tu-1H for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:43:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:43:17 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OEhFUr020138; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:43:15 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OEh0Gd019235; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:43:00 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OEfo3u027783 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:41:50 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OEfo9P027779 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:41:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.76 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAC6zLUbDNmtMkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55235035:sNHT16637661" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:30:16 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several partial deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of partial deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a single stream, or is there some limit such that one can guarantee that there is only one unordered partial delivery going on per stream? The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the most, does anyone know if there can be more than one partial delivery for unordered messages on a single stream going on simultaneously? My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most one partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial delivery for an unordered message going on simultaneously, but I just realized that it may not be correct. /Anders Torger From torger@ludd.ltu.se Tue Apr 24 10:45:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMGk-0005nI-32 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:45:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMGi-0003y8-Ri for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:45:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:45:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OEjOJw021462; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:45:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OEj9lG017207; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:45:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OEitbp027838 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:44:55 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OEituP027834 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:44:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAK20LUbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQCwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55236088:sNHT1000302111" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:33:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704241633.25480.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Randall, you missed the question I had at the bottom of the mail (the 'Is this really true'-thing): On Monday 23 April 2007 12:15, Randall Stewart wrote: > >>> For the SCTP_SEND_FAILED event, it says that ssf_data contains: > >>> > >>> "The undelivered message, exactly as delivered by the caller to > >>> the original send*() call." > >>> > >>> If a large message has been sent using partial sending, how much > >>> of the message will be returned? The first or the last fragment > >>> sent? > >> > >> Well.. I cannot speak for other stacks. BSD literally gives you > >> all of the message. Which means if you don't provide enough space > >> to read it in.. you get a PD-API scenario.. and no MSG_EOR on the > >> first read.. :-D > > > > Is this really true? Say if I am really bad and use the partial > > sending API, will the kernel really buffer and keep the full > > message? So an easy way to make the machine run out of mbufs would > > be to send an SCTP message that never ends? If so, wouldn't some > > people consider that to be a DoS issue, although local? /Anders Torger From rrs@cisco.com Tue Apr 24 10:55:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMQJ-0001uh-Gf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMQJ-0005ni-8B for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:55:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OEtI9k020721; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:18 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OEt7lG020824; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:55:07 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OEsA8o028021 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:54:10 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OEsAel028017 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:54:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55829964:sNHT3115524528" Message-Id: <462E1AA9.6060908@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:41 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> <200704241633.25480.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241633.25480.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 14:54:07.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[68894170:01C78680] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2529; t=1177426518; x=1178290518; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Dynamic=20data=20in=20notifications |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=juSdQmD0pTXNSPydlE1w/gIQ51BK3yOJPjVK7kkn+7k=; b=HJP8ewBi6Rj6vBijSqt4HYjoaTjlvSHpGi6Ghmj9k14Z10P5WoW7JpQH+YbJ4e6wfd0zmM6/ gO6SdG11ALrcBz8mYcaSPV3JHHe/D0oWpqx1lpFxj5MtIfEw94toGBkZ; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2529; t=1177426448; x=1178290448; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Dynamic=20data=20in=20notifications |Sender:=20; bh=juSdQmD0pTXNSPydlE1w/gIQ51BK3yOJPjVK7kkn+7k=; b=RnEJMXU9jLutYyPxFjF0FSZAzKAieXiPmT7o9/Lf3HLaUy6ZPwoGlF9mvFovs0NPza2IdWSg shnWlvAxjCVGrDe5QmcqtybqUUhqNBVuvc+skBClN+++Dkj4g7RhDjbq; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Anders Torger wrote: So I did... >>> Is this really true? Say if I am really bad and use the partial >>> sending API, will the kernel really buffer and keep the full >>> message? So an easy way to make the machine run out of mbufs would >>> be to send an SCTP message that never ends? If so, wouldn't some >>> people consider that to be a DoS issue, although local? Well, this is no different than TCP.. Think of a sender that says I will start at byte 1.. in its SYN/SYN-ACK. Now it sends bytes 2 - N.. The limit here, for both TCP and SCTP, is the rwnd. The receiver will begin dropping segments after the rwnd is reached. So lets say.. the sender has a rwnd of 100k. It now can occupy 100k (- 1 byte) of mbuf/skbuf etc .. The one-2-many model aggravates this more (which is why the draft says FRAGMENT INTERLEAVE is at level 1).. since if I had 10 assoc's under a socket, one could do this and start the pd-api and then stop sending.. now the other 9 are blocked... even though you are not taking up kernel mbufs... of course with level 1 only your assoc is blocked.. ;-D This case is a bit different though.. but you have the same issue. one-2-one or one-2-many.. the sender never ends its message.. of course if everything is in sequence the pd-api will start and then the local user will receive the data.. so the "evil sender" would need to skip the first "FIRST bit" fragment and send all the rest until the rwnd is full... But you are looking at the very same scenario TCP has.. This is another reason for the PD-API delivery point set.. you can set that down.. to some arbitrary lower value.. so that you will start getting data from such an evil sender.. and if you know your message size (some may not .. but most apps I am aware of do) then you set it down to the max msg size you will ever get.. and if you start to get a message that is larger than this.. aka you get N bytes (your limit) and no MSG_EOR is set.. you can abort the peer.. TCP has a similar mechanism.. since it never looks for a EOR.. and always delivers when it can.. in order. In fact if you set your PD-API point to 1 byte, you get TCP like service... Especially if the peer sets EXPLICT_EOR mode.. and ta-da, your SCTP association just became some number of multiple streams of bytes... if the sender never sends MSG_EOR, then you have 1 stream of bytes for the whole association... R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Tue Apr 24 10:55:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMQu-00024T-Ej for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMQt-0005rY-7B for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:55:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OEtsQx027994; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:54 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OEtfGd023650; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:55:41 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OEtWoG028044 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OEtW2T028040 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:55:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="371863858:sNHT45480248" Message-Id: <462E1AF2.8080008@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:57:54 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 14:55:22.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[95389E00:01C78680] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=764; t=1177426554; x=1178290554; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=k62lusB/NfOIBJcJUWzPGkY2DXFn2OdWafFW5ja8J+8=; b=Y0xmU8z3HaK3i5TA/QkKu6jKOgQYsLXPlhxcH/YBMr6wigjMbRpjyQM9VgXqMN/nhHCjZSoE vwyzk/tajhRAg+3AXx3LVjX5nLc1VwPktBWTrckoB0AGJL+qgGg4Xs8R; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=764; t=1177426530; x=1178290530; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20; bh=k62lusB/NfOIBJcJUWzPGkY2DXFn2OdWafFW5ja8J+8=; b=qkEIpG/IevjmM87I0BRv9RPb3qBi7Xb4D28EirUWT+pC3oA0N1Og9We3p6iW/pY9hCIxMWgS 9FyowsyA3sm4gTZqdOlAqkQojdElvIoR4YVJ04xG3158qczLTLquo9uECBkvJ6+zKAXuTgmVaU 2GfmYEy9afDxOBtUrNVmWaEoA=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: >> Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets API >> draft? >> >> Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side >> (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending side. > > The sending side uses timetolive (sinfo_timetolive) and will notify the > app using SEND_FAILED event in case the message was not sent/received in > time. At least that's what Linux does. > > -vlad > >> >> /Anders Torger >> > We do the same, but Michael T developed a specific macro set you apply to sinfo_flags to set the profile type. Its kinda cool :-D R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Tue Apr 24 10:56:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMRc-0002Aw-RV for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMRb-0005ze-Js for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 10:56:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OEucFn021624; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:38 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OEuclG021361; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:56:38 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OEuTVQ028068 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:29 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OEuT5N028064 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="415020181:sNHT49520248" Message-Id: <462E1B35.7010005@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:59:01 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Vlad Yasevich , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 14:56:26.0523 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBA1D6B0:01C78680] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1389; t=1177426599; x=1178290599; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=hfvlxedqU6fB1gS4yuLHcO7OdcNAA+FJ1zCIVIaBzFU=; b=GtTDL+4MAnhtxvN8MYNlfy/gK2woHNFnOH+Z8HdUHB0Ud+XNsEWtb8TL83Yrl3Mm/CYORYE0 Q6uTG21EVtxlLjm7PrGAZfL0EiOdMlafd8b2VHK12yhckTKjVRtZ3pKs; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1389; t=1177426587; x=1178290587; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20; bh=hfvlxedqU6fB1gS4yuLHcO7OdcNAA+FJ1zCIVIaBzFU=; b=fa6Rjrcnd6l7a2qsdpYIZxp7HxSWr720v/dbohMWegI2prYcUlR/OFfRGzC4zAZx82aKK6gl dwACM5bOsYul6krw9kAr00FDo+5EmtRHHVN3eHksL0xs9/qjGDYoap8n; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Anders Torger wrote: > I figured that out, but there seems to be a global enable flag for > PR-SCTP (proc/sys/net/sctp/prsctp_enable), you cannot choose per > message if it should be partially reliable or not. > > In Solaris there is the SCTP_PRSCTP socket option, and the MSG_PR_SCTP > flag so one can choose if the time-to-live member should count only > until the message hits the wire or if it should be partial reliable. This is what we do too I think.. you must have the option on before the t-t-l is considered.. of course we have two other modes.. number of retransmissions and buffer based. R > > These flags are however not discussed in the current socket API draft. > > /Anders Torger > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 15:49, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets >>> API draft? >>> >>> Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side >>> (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending >>> side. >> The sending side uses timetolive (sinfo_timetolive) and will notify >> the app using SEND_FAILED event in case the message was not >> sent/received in time. At least that's what Linux does. >> >> -vlad >> >>> /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Tue Apr 24 11:00:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMV2-0002gl-AB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:00:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgMV1-0006o2-2O for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:00:12 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 11:00:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OF0ALl023782; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:00:10 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OF05Gd025307; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:00:05 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OExuJx028108 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:59:56 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OExupp028104 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:59:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="139988911:sNHT44946369" Message-Id: <462E1C03.9070507@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:02:27 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2007 14:59:53.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[36B986E0:01C78681] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1556; t=1177426810; x=1178290810; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=PonrmPNOyL4gse2acHYchF0SuX4WggeTDmZdVRFrSug=; b=G12Mm2V0JnWQc51NoYAhlFiWOOlZZjNkD/pk3h6T6wW1CJMkOnCpCyBJ7U0Ytid2G5y39y15 Y7mqf97dK/olZWg+5Cz4o/+NEMH9ugReHFfNm6cxA3evjdE/s0kUL1hp; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1556; t=1177426794; x=1178290794; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=PonrmPNOyL4gse2acHYchF0SuX4WggeTDmZdVRFrSug=; b=DkM5pinx/WHagB3aUT28FJXyPChFbdCnA5sd9jGPP8JErLwZQgegWffuIBWR9EvM/fy0BbZh F0DjBvTjmI2tg6YQLnkg+GcCO29mttLcMiJBlP1mRNiFOQ3ilhY9JNdE; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Anders Torger wrote: > With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several partial > deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. > > However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of partial > deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a single stream, or > is there some limit such that one can guarantee that there is only one > unordered partial delivery going on per stream? > Well an unordered msg DOES have a stream associated with it even though the ssn means nothing. The spec (though not binding) does say.. " Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. " Which implies that you should NOT get more than one PD-API in any stream no matter if its ordered or unordered. I know BSD will enforce this.. > The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the most, > does anyone know if there can be more than one partial delivery for > unordered messages on a single stream going on simultaneously? Don't know on solaris.. but BSD won't allow it.. (of course you must set the level to 2 to get the fragment interleave anyway). > > My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most one > partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial delivery for an > unordered message going on simultaneously, but I just realized that it > may not be correct. I think you are correct.. at least the document says so.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From butlerm@middle.net Tue Apr 24 12:33:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgNx6-0002my-UJ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:33:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgNx6-0005iK-39 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:33:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 12:33:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OGXBVS010607; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:33:11 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OGWFlG023087; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:32:15 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OGUIS3029948 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:30:18 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OGUISX029944 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:30:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AusRAGTNLUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBZ2Y5iXg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="83125961:sNHT71035587" Message-Id: <462E2E51.5050202@middle.net> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:20:33 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Standalone message terminators References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> <200704241235.58535.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241235.58535.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070502000901020500080509" X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f402fbded34a6df606921f56b8bdd8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070502000901020500080509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anders Torger wrote: >On Monday 23 April 2007 20:45, Mark Butler wrote: > > >>The alternative is to say that SCTP does not natively support dynamic >>generation of large messages, which eliminates a key advantage over >>TCP for a considerable class of applications. >> >> > >Really? > >I think I agree with Randall here, I don't really see how the code is >constructed in order *not* to know that the last fragment you send is >the last of a particular ULP message. > >Since that case would not only require extra system calls to terminate >messages, it also requires sending zero size message over the protocol, >it seems to be an inefficient way to send dynamically sized messages. >Thus one would not want to design code that way. > >Do you have an enlightning example where the application do not know >that the last fragment it sends is the last of an ULP message? > > Here is a historical example of a considerable complication that could have been avoided. (It is relatively long, so I inserted section headers for clarity): INTRODUCTION HTTP supports on-the-fly page generation, which of course is very common. There is an enormous benefit from starting to transmit and starting to render a document as soon as possible, and so those are all done on-the-fly as m well, transmitting before the content has been completely generated, and rendering before it has been completely received, subject to formatting constraints. In the beginning, it was necessary to open and close a separate HTTP TCP connection for every document requested, and that was woefully inefficient, notably because a single page often had a very large number of included icons and other images, each of which required a separate request. So it was determined that there should be a "Keepalive" option with some sort of inactivity timeout to allow multiple requests to be issued on the same connection. That only worked if the HTTP content length was known in advance, because the convention for terminating a dynamically generated document was to omit the "Content-length:" header and just close the TCP connection when the document was finished. Lacking any sort of message boundary support, the solution for HTTP/1.1 was to invent something called "Chunked transfer coding", which is nothing less than a application level transport protocol. In order to generate dynamic documents, instead of completing an HTTP response with a binary dump of the document, the web server emits a transfer coding header, followed by a series of data bearing chunks (each with its its own header), followed by a trailer that indicates the transfer is complete. Now if TCP had record boundaries, all this extra complexity just to support dynamically generated documents would be superflous. There would only need to be a convention that each response is composed of a single record, terminated by a record boundary. So when the requester read MSG_EOR it would know that the document was done, and it could go on to the next response. DOCUMENT GENERATION INTERFACES Web document generation interfaces don't ever combine an operation to write a piece of data with the end document operation because it is enormously artificial constraint. The prototypical example, CGI, just has the page generation program issue writes on a pipe and close and exit when the page is complete. The "write" and the "close" are never combined. Other alternatives (such as the internal interfaces to Apache and IIS) work in a similar way, a series of write operations (e.g. ap_fwrite, ap_fprintf, etc.) followed by an implicit or explicit end document operation. In the TCP case, the web server then has to buffer and merge the write operations into efficiently sized chunks, add a chunk transfer header for each one, and then write a trailer after it receives an end document. And the web browser has to perform the inverse chunk header parsing and stripping operation on the other end. With SCTP this extra overhead could all eliminated by letting the transport protocol do what it is good it - transmitting distinct messages, one message per response. If you do more than one message per response, you are back to the same inefficiences that the TCP solution has, more or less defeating the benefit of having record boundary capability in the first place. RATIONALE With all of these interfaces, the web server never knows, and the generating application or module often doesn't know, which of these data generation calls will be the last in a document. So if you are writing out one record per response (to gain any benefit in the first place), if there is not an independent way to terminate a record, the web server would have to always hold back some portion of the data. That adds unnecessary complexity to the web server, but there is another problem. In order to make progress rendering a document, the web browser needs as much data as soon as possible. If, for example, the last angle bracket on a "" closing tag is left off for artificial reasons, the renderer will just sit there until it comes along, which stalls the process unnecessarily. Similar logic applies to database protocols, where you have a series of queries each generating a response of arbitrary length, where the query engine generates and transmits row data long before it knows how many rows or how much row data there is going to be, and also where putting message boundaries at the query response level is much cleaner and more efficient than artificially wasting them at the row level, or chunking rows together with yet another application level transport protocol. So the rationale is that allowing zero length message terminators maps naturally to the way large dynamically sized messages are typically generated, i.e. on the fly, with separate content generation and end message operations. And that further, disallowing zero length message terminators at the protocol level just adds application level complexity and processing delays with no corresponding benefit whatsoever. And of course SCTP stacks would actually get smaller. EFFICIENCY CONSIDERATIONS There is nothing that prevents the transport protocol implementation from merging writes that belong to the same message together. In the common case, whenever there is still message data waiting to be transmitted, and an independent message terminator (i.e. a zero length write with MSG_EOR set) is received, the stack can just flip a bit on the last data chunk, and there will be no extra protocol level overhead at all. The only case where a message terminator would need to be transmitted independently would be when all the data for that message was already sent. That would be relatively rare, and would only be incurred by applications that benefit accordingly. And of course removing the artificial restriction at the implementation level is trivial. - Mark B. --------------070502000901020500080509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anders Torger wrote: 
On Monday 23 April 2007 20:45, Mark Butler wrote:
  
The alternative is to say that SCTP does not natively support dynamic
generation of large messages, which eliminates a key advantage over
TCP for a considerable class of applications.
    

Really?

I think I agree with Randall here, I don't really see how the code is  
constructed in order *not* to know that the last fragment you send is 
the last of a particular ULP message. 

Since that case would not only require extra system calls to terminate 
messages, it also requires sending zero size message over the protocol, 
it seems to be an inefficient way to send dynamically sized messages. 
Thus one would not want to design code that way.

Do you have an enlightning example where the application do not know 
that the last fragment it sends is the last of an ULP message?
Here is a historical example of a considerable complication that could have been avoided. (It is relatively long, so I inserted section headers for clarity):

INTRODUCTION

HTTP supports on-the-fly page generation, which of course is very common.  There is an enormous benefit from starting to transmit and starting to render a document as soon as possible, and so those are all done on-the-fly as m well, transmitting before the content has been completely generated, and rendering before it has been completely received, subject to formatting constraints.

In the beginning, it was necessary to open and close a separate HTTP TCP connection for every document requested, and that was woefully inefficient, notably because a single page often had a very large number of included icons and other images, each of which required a separate request.

So it was determined that there should be a "Keepalive" option with some sort of inactivity timeout to allow multiple requests to be issued on the same connection.  That only worked if the HTTP content length was known in advance, because the convention for terminating a dynamically generated document was to omit the "Content-length:" header and just close the TCP connection when the document was finished.

Lacking any sort of message boundary support, the solution for HTTP/1.1 was to invent something called "Chunked transfer coding", which is nothing less than a application level transport protocol.  In order to generate dynamic documents, instead of completing an HTTP response with a binary dump of the document, the web server emits a transfer coding header, followed by a series of data bearing chunks (each with its its own header), followed by a trailer that indicates the transfer is complete. 

Now if TCP had record boundaries, all this extra complexity just to support dynamically generated documents would be superflous.  There would only need to be a convention that each response is composed of a single record, terminated by a record boundary. So when the requester read MSG_EOR it would know that the document was done, and it could go on to the next response.

DOCUMENT GENERATION INTERFACES

Web document generation interfaces don't ever combine an operation to write a piece of data with the end document operation because it is enormously artificial constraint.  The prototypical example, CGI, just has the page generation program issue writes on a pipe and close and exit when the page is complete.  The "write" and the "close" are never combined.  Other alternatives (such as the internal interfaces to Apache and IIS) work in a similar way, a series of write operations (e.g. ap_fwrite, ap_fprintf, etc.) followed by an implicit or explicit end document operation.

In the TCP case, the web server then has to buffer and merge the write operations into efficiently sized chunks, add a chunk transfer header for each one, and then write a trailer after it receives an end document.  And the web browser has to perform the inverse chunk header parsing and stripping operation on the other end.

With SCTP this extra overhead could all eliminated by letting the transport protocol do what it is good it - transmitting distinct messages, one message per response.  If you do more than one message per response, you are back to the same inefficiences that the TCP solution has, more or less defeating the benefit of having record boundary capability in the first place.

RATIONALE

With all of these interfaces, the web server never knows, and the generating application or module often doesn't know, which of these data generation calls will be the last in a document.  So if you are writing out one record per response (to gain any benefit in the first place), if there is not an independent way to terminate a record, the web server would have to always hold back some portion of the data.

That adds unnecessary complexity to the web server, but there is another problem.  In order to make progress rendering a document, the web browser needs as much data as soon as possible.  If, for example, the last angle bracket on a "</table>" closing tag is left off for artificial reasons, the renderer will just sit there until it comes along, which stalls the process unnecessarily.  

Similar logic applies to database protocols, where you have a series of queries each generating a response of arbitrary length, where the query engine generates and transmits row data long before it knows how many rows or how much row data there is going to be, and also where putting message boundaries at the query response level is much cleaner and more efficient than artificially wasting them at the row level, or chunking rows together with yet another application level transport protocol.

So the rationale is that allowing zero length message terminators maps naturally to the way large dynamically sized messages are typically generated, i.e. on the fly, with separate content generation and end message operations.  And that further, disallowing zero length message terminators at the protocol level just adds application level complexity and processing delays with no corresponding benefit whatsoever.  And of course SCTP stacks would actually get smaller.

EFFICIENCY CONSIDERATIONS

There is nothing that prevents the transport protocol implementation from merging writes that belong to the same message together.  In the common case, whenever there is still message data waiting to be transmitted, and an independent message terminator (i.e. a zero length write with MSG_EOR set)  is received, the stack can just flip a bit on the last data chunk, and there will be no extra protocol level overhead at all.

The only case where a message terminator would need to be transmitted independently would be when all the data for that message was already sent.   That would be relatively rare, and would only be incurred by applications that benefit accordingly.  And of course removing the artificial restriction at the implementation level is trivial.

- Mark B.
--------------070502000901020500080509-- From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Tue Apr 24 12:49:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgOCa-0002a6-ML for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:49:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgOCZ-0004gY-AG for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:49:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 12:49:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OGnELZ017305; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:49:14 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OGmglG027287; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:48:42 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OGlvoq030357 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:47:57 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OGlvws030353 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:47:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJzRLUacmf/VoWdsb2JhbACQDAEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83133686:sNHT575473842" Message-Id: <462E3441.5060707@hp.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:45:53 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E0AE8.7070605@hp.com> <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Anders Anders Torger wrote: > I figured that out, but there seems to be a global enable flag for > PR-SCTP (proc/sys/net/sctp/prsctp_enable), you cannot choose per > message if it should be partially reliable or not. In Linux, this flag is a global enable/disable flag for PR-SCTP. If that setting is off, PR extensions are disabled in the code and sinfo_timetolive will be ignored. > > In Solaris there is the SCTP_PRSCTP socket option, and the MSG_PR_SCTP > flag so one can choose if the time-to-live member should count only > until the message hits the wire or if it should be partial reliable. Ahh.. linux just treats any message with sinfo_timetolive as partially reliable if the partial reliability is turned on. -vlad > > These flags are however not discussed in the current socket API draft. > > /Anders Torger > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 15:49, Vlad Yasevich wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> Is there an intention to specify an API for PR-SCTP in the sockets >>> API draft? >>> >>> Now it seems that there is specified support on the receive side >>> (through the SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT), but not on the sending >>> side. >> The sending side uses timetolive (sinfo_timetolive) and will notify >> the app using SEND_FAILED event in case the message was not >> sent/received in time. At least that's what Linux does. >> >> -vlad >> >>> /Anders Torger > From butlerm@middle.net Tue Apr 24 13:12:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgOYt-0007P7-PI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:12:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgOYt-000812-HL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:12:19 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 13:12:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OHCEje027400; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:12:14 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OHBmlG003729; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:11:48 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OHBBUo031061 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:11:11 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OHBBpI031057 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:11:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAFjWLUamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBZw X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55285648:sNHT23249277" Message-Id: <462E3A24.7070505@middle.net> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:11:00 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com CC: Anders Torger Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Anders Torger wrote: >With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several partial >deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. > >However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of partial >deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a single stream, or >is there some limit such that one can guarantee that there is only one >unordered partial delivery going on per stream? > >The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the most, >does anyone know if there can be more than one partial delivery for >unordered messages on a single stream going on simultaneously? > >My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most one >partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial delivery for an >unordered message going on simultaneously, but I just realized that it >may not be correct. > > That assumption is correct. That is what level 2 means. The only way to support multiple partial deliveries on the same stream at the same time would be to add a new level 3 to SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, as well as add some sort of synthetic message id (such as the start TSN) to the auxilliary receive info. Otherwise there would be no way to attach partial deliveries to the correct message. I think that would be a nice feature that would be trivial to implement and which would allow applications to eliminate an important case of head of line blocking problems that would occur even with relatively small messages. I can only guess how anyone else feels of course. - Mark B. 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From butlerm@middle.net Tue Apr 24 18:12:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgTEv-0002gn-UR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:12:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgTEu-0001uL-NL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:12:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Apr 2007 18:11:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3OMBukE023244; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:11:56 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3OMAklG001960; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:10:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3OM8QZq004350 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:08:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3OM8QXT004346 for sctp-impl-filtered; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:08:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FANgcLkamRmRy/2dsb2JhbACBaA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,448,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55369970:sNHT18873801" Message-Id: <462E7FDA.1060602@middle.net> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:08:26 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Dynamic data in notifications References: <200704221022.24436.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704231147.38968.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462C8749.6070902@cisco.com> <200704241633.25480.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704241633.25480.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Anders Torger wrote: >>>Is this really true? Say if I am really bad and use the partial >>>sending API, will the kernel really buffer and keep the full >>>message? So an easy way to make the machine run out of mbufs would >>>be to send an SCTP message that never ends? If so, wouldn't some >>>people consider that to be a DoS issue, although local? >>> >>> In the case of send failed notifications, I think it is clear at some point there has to be a limit, otherwise a stack could never send a message larger than the buffer size. - Mark B. From dbjt@librarycard.com Wed Apr 25 00:09:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgYoO-0004X1-Mf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:09:00 -0400 Received: from [61.84.127.103] (helo=46AA2A78) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgYoH-0007T3-F3; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:08:56 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO comatose) (61.84.127.103) by mail1.reich.com with SMTP; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:09:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:09:14 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.5.7.1.340209619906.374a4880@156.154.24.150> X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at reich.com X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times. 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He gained respect for innovating the use of his guitar and the production of his music, and became a messenger even when he was not singing in his songs. His music reached people emotionally throughout nations. Music is an effective tool for adjusting to the emotional life of many people. People use music quite frequently to express or modify their emotions (Hakanen). Some find themselves in the words of others, and some will put themselves into their own words. Bob believed himself to be a philosopher, but humble as well. "People want to listen to a message, word from Jah. This could be passed through me or anybody. I am not a leader, a messenger. The words of the songs, not the person are what attract people." (African News Service) Bob Marley used techniques of assimilation to grab his audience. When he spoke of topics that were hot in the minds of his people, they were more likely to accept the message and believe they shared the same beliefs. Marley痴 song persuade people into a political movement or a social protest. the hardships of the political fights of Jamaicans and Africans Marley established himself as the spokesman of a race and culture. true to his Rastafari roots. He became a spokesman of Jamaican people, and one of the first 迭asta Prophets (African News Service). From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 03:04:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgbYD-0002Ey-Dq for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:04:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgbYC-0000RY-6H for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:04:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 03:04:27 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3P74QrB002967; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:04:26 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3P73OlG010007; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:03:24 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3P72BY2013150 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:02:11 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3P72BB8013146 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:02:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABCZLkbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,449,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83405016:sNHT40639698" From: Anders Torger To: Vlad Yasevich Subject: Re: PR-SCTP Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:50:37 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E3441.5060707@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <462E3441.5060707@hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704250850.37528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a On Tuesday 24 April 2007 18:45, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Anders > > Anders Torger wrote: > > I figured that out, but there seems to be a global enable flag for > > PR-SCTP (proc/sys/net/sctp/prsctp_enable), you cannot choose per > > message if it should be partially reliable or not. > > In Linux, this flag is a global enable/disable flag for PR-SCTP. If > that setting is off, PR extensions are disabled in the code and > sinfo_timetolive will be ignored. If I understand things correctly, the sinfo_timetolive should not be ignored even when PR-SCTP is not enabled. The meaning of it is changed though, the timer only runs while the message is in the kernel send buffer and has not yet been put on the wire (for the first time). As soon as the message is put on the wire the first time, the timer is dropped. But should the timer expire and the message has not yet been put on the wire, most likely due to a stall caused by congestion or peer flow control, the message is dropped and a SCTP_SEND_FAILED notification is delivered (if subscribed to). The difference with PR-SCTP enabled is that the timer continues to run even when the message has been sent, and thus if it has to be retransmitted due to packet loss it will instead be dropped if the timer expires. /Anders Torger From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 03:06:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgbaS-0003S4-Mg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:06:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgbaR-0000zz-7a for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:06:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 03:06:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3P76k5g003863; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:06:46 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3P76clG010742; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:06:38 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3P76LJE013228 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:06:21 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3P76LC8013224 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:06:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAFqaLkbDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,449,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83406528:sNHT35530650" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: timetolive for partial sending and PR-SCTP Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:54:53 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704250854.53569.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 A number of questions concerning the timetolive parameter: How is the timetolive timer treated for messages using the partially send API? Is the timer started when the first fragment of the message enters the kernel (I would guess so!), or the last fragment? When is the timer dropped when PR-SCTP is not enabled, when the first fragment is sent, or when the last fragment is sent? (I would guess the first!). For PR-SCTP, should the timer be dropped only when the last fragment has been successfully delivered and ack'd by the peer? /Anders Torger From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 03:15:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgbj7-0003VL-Oe for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:15:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgbj7-000370-F1 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:15:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 03:15:45 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3P7Firi007128; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:15:45 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3P7FglG012731; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:15:42 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3P7FYsC013368 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:15:34 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3P7FYxa013364 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:15:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAANGcLkbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQDQEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,449,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83410054:sNHT28238868" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:04:01 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E1C03.9070507@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462E1C03.9070507@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704250904.01446.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Randall, you (indirectly) say two contradicting things here, first that there will only be one message at a time partially delivered per stream, regardless if it is unordered or not, and then you say my assumption that there can be one ordered and one unordered (=2) partial deliveries per stream simultaneously is correct too. Could you please clarify? /Anders Torger On Tuesday 24 April 2007 17:02, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several partial > > deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. > > > > However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of partial > > deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a single > > stream, or is there some limit such that one can guarantee that > > there is only one unordered partial delivery going on per stream? > > Well an unordered msg DOES have a stream associated with > it even though the ssn means nothing. > The spec (though not binding) does say.. > " > Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. > " > Which implies that you should NOT get more than one PD-API in > any stream no matter if its ordered or unordered. > > I know BSD will enforce this.. > > > The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the > > most, does anyone know if there can be more than one partial > > delivery for unordered messages on a single stream going on > > simultaneously? > > Don't know on solaris.. but BSD won't allow it.. (of course > you must set the level to 2 to get the fragment interleave anyway). > > > My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most one > > partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial delivery > > for an unordered message going on simultaneously, but I just > > realized that it may not be correct. > > I think you are correct.. at least the document says so.. > > R From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 06:13:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeUu-0002HG-TD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:13:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeUu-0000O6-J9 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:13:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 06:13:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PADGYp006071; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:13:16 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PABVlG010160; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:11:31 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PA9nFw016930 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:09:49 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PA9nG0016926 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:09:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="372065256:sNHT50662224" Message-Id: <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:12:19 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E1C03.9070507@cisco.com> <200704250904.01446.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704250904.01446.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 10:09:46.0253 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9E2ABD0:01C78721] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3362; t=1177495996; x=1178359996; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=z3l9e+nE8dOTWBufgCG4mIoRz8zq5CH6SHCDgHB98m0=; b=x9pyeRhFbrmXZ4OrGpLp52ZCQ2BM+gKqZ1AjAK3lAe5pt4/taEu4jOiKbaYPD51IT2MIR3D3 4NQ2rLM3vcYsvN0Wvfcoq22RsiTsSg5rTTG2V5Y9TFw9BLnD4JAAIGYH; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3362; t=1177495787; x=1178359787; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=z3l9e+nE8dOTWBufgCG4mIoRz8zq5CH6SHCDgHB98m0=; b=mh5A/X1mdFOjzhQREhSMP9yJoXExWFWkONw3EJ+BB6n+Gi+dRXwUmcikKgZ3KhVZlOb9nm0Q Sfx33xbOYfFAoyDSoYFcqBON564atwxjz4P4PdLiwm7i/6Ydh4UrHpV8; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Anders Torger wrote: > Randall, > > you (indirectly) say two contradicting things here, first that there > will only be one message at a time partially delivered per stream, > regardless if it is unordered or not, and then you say my assumption > that there can be one ordered and one unordered (=2) partial deliveries > per stream simultaneously is correct too. Sorry I was not clear.. > > Could you please clarify? BSD will allow only ONE PD-API per stream. It does not care if the message is ordered or unordered. Basically if you set level-2, then there is a stream-started-delivery flag that gets set when the PD-API begins... no other message will be delivered for that stream until the PD-API terminates.. This is what I think the spec says as well.. aka: Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. It does not say "only one ordered and as many unordered as you would like".. only one message partially delivered in any stream.. Now, I suppose you COULD get a message non-partially delivered in a stream that was unordered where a PD-API was happening.. i.e. lets say you recv() <--- BEGIN stream=1 SSN=3 NO-MSG_EOR (you are now in PD-API for stream 1) You migiht get (and still be within the above restriction recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and MSG_EOR Since the wording above does not prohibit this.. It does prohibit this though: recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and NO-MSG_EOR BSD will not do either one.. once you begin delivery in stream 1 you MUST get all the message before ANY other message in stream 1 will arrive. Does that help? ;-D R > > /Anders Torger > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 17:02, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several partial >>> deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. >>> >>> However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of partial >>> deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a single >>> stream, or is there some limit such that one can guarantee that >>> there is only one unordered partial delivery going on per stream? >> Well an unordered msg DOES have a stream associated with >> it even though the ssn means nothing. >> The spec (though not binding) does say.. >> " >> Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. >> " >> Which implies that you should NOT get more than one PD-API in >> any stream no matter if its ordered or unordered. >> >> I know BSD will enforce this.. >> >>> The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the >>> most, does anyone know if there can be more than one partial >>> delivery for unordered messages on a single stream going on >>> simultaneously? >> Don't know on solaris.. but BSD won't allow it.. (of course >> you must set the level to 2 to get the fragment interleave anyway). >> >>> My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most one >>> partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial delivery >>> for an unordered message going on simultaneously, but I just >>> realized that it may not be correct. >> I think you are correct.. at least the document says so.. >> >> R > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 06:21:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgeci-0004mr-Gg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:21:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgeci-0002pw-0b for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:21:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 06:21:20 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PALJ6j014948; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:21:19 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PAKrlG011990; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:20:53 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PAKW2a017257 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:20:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PAKW1X017253 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:20:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="140356687:sNHT66543480" Message-Id: <462F2BFD.4040602@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:22:53 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, Anders Torger Subject: Re: Standalone message terminators References: <200704172213.17284.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462CDCCE.4060105@cisco.com> <462CFEBE.1090809@middle.net> <200704241235.58535.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E2E51.5050202@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462E2E51.5050202@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 10:20:20.0107 (UTC) FILETIME=[53B11DB0:01C78723] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=9119; t=1177496479; x=1178360479; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Standalone=20message=20terminators |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=NODUavWHF9fc44Byvwr/D7UhpBvE2AxbxSfu/EwSqEA=; b=PNY46qa3i/+SI1GJNudoqGIo4NnLAo/j88yi37OHu5s7IYvujvoOcAPfUCMCBr3N9a8yO2yT zDAURX0ubCZdGGbi1NdTzCktU5MSf6QcLAO8V2ffZ/TzZexYyVv1mNrg; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=9119; t=1177496430; x=1178360430; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Standalone=20message=20terminators |Sender:=20; bh=NODUavWHF9fc44Byvwr/D7UhpBvE2AxbxSfu/EwSqEA=; b=j9RfOk585yo0xQErIEt7igmmEdW6/xmMNaSfxf4eAgaD6Sw0/0sA1CM4ZlphkXDZ3W/ATKjI PhWsuprOQYfDCh0OVy+Z7r/9Ec0rBxurr+LbqjzMvRIgKqQZawVbyYf4254K0wrqr17PtWSQdt G/JKEVUf4AbMGhOwt4RUoTji0=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a So as I understand what you wrote here you have something like this: ,'''''''''''''''| | Renderer | | | '---------------' | v ,''''''''''''''`. | Web Chunker | | | '`''''''''''''''' | v ,---------------. | TCP | | | '`'''''''''''''' The "web chunker" is an artificial entity that you would like to eliminate .. and its sole purpose is to "chunk up" the messages and make it so multiple msg's from renderer's can be sent/shared over the TCP connection.. The web chunker is complicated by having to send control "start msg"/data/"end msg" to its peer... who then schedules the data out to the proper renderer... So, there is a very simple solution for this that does not require a "zero length" write. You simply take your web chunker and make it do only one thing.. When the "renderer" does its close.. which is done say after the last write of data.. the web chunk then sends a 1 byte message with "msg eor". The web chunk on the opposite side then becomes very simple.. all it has to do is to watch for MSG_EOR and when it sees this, it takes off the last byte of the message.. and knows its next msg in that stream will be associated with some other renderer. R Mark Butler wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: >> On Monday 23 April 2007 20:45, Mark Butler wrote: >> >>> The alternative is to say that SCTP does not natively support dynamic >>> generation of large messages, which eliminates a key advantage over >>> TCP for a considerable class of applications. >>> >> >> Really? >> >> I think I agree with Randall here, I don't really see how the code is >> constructed in order *not* to know that the last fragment you send is >> the last of a particular ULP message. >> >> Since that case would not only require extra system calls to terminate >> messages, it also requires sending zero size message over the protocol, >> it seems to be an inefficient way to send dynamically sized messages. >> Thus one would not want to design code that way. >> >> Do you have an enlightning example where the application do not know >> that the last fragment it sends is the last of an ULP message? >> > Here is a historical example of a considerable complication that could > have been avoided. (It is relatively long, so I inserted section headers > for clarity): > > INTRODUCTION > > HTTP supports on-the-fly page generation, which of course is very > common. There is an enormous benefit from starting to transmit and > starting to render a document as soon as possible, and so those are all > done on-the-fly as m well, transmitting before the content has been > completely generated, and rendering before it has been completely > received, subject to formatting constraints. > > In the beginning, it was necessary to open and close a separate HTTP TCP > connection for every document requested, and that was woefully > inefficient, notably because a single page often had a very large number > of included icons and other images, each of which required a separate > request. > > So it was determined that there should be a "Keepalive" option with some > sort of inactivity timeout to allow multiple requests to be issued on > the same connection. That only worked if the HTTP content length was > known in advance, because the convention for terminating a dynamically > generated document was to omit the "Content-length:" header and just > close the TCP connection when the document was finished. > > Lacking any sort of message boundary support, the solution for HTTP/1.1 > was to invent something called "Chunked transfer coding", which is > nothing less than a application level transport protocol. In order to > generate dynamic documents, instead of completing an HTTP response with > a binary dump of the document, the web server emits a transfer coding > header, followed by a series of data bearing chunks (each with its its > own header), followed by a trailer that indicates the transfer is > complete. > > Now if TCP had record boundaries, all this extra complexity just to > support dynamically generated documents would be superflous. There > would only need to be a convention that each response is composed of a > single record, terminated by a record boundary. So when the requester > read MSG_EOR it would know that the document was done, and it could go > on to the next response. > > DOCUMENT GENERATION INTERFACES > > Web document generation interfaces don't ever combine an operation to > write a piece of data with the end document operation because it is > enormously artificial constraint. The prototypical example, CGI, just > has the page generation program issue writes on a pipe and close and > exit when the page is complete. The "write" and the "close" are never > combined. Other alternatives (such as the internal interfaces to Apache > and IIS) work in a similar way, a series of write operations (e.g. > ap_fwrite, ap_fprintf, etc.) followed by an implicit or explicit end > document operation. > > In the TCP case, the web server then has to buffer and merge the write > operations into efficiently sized chunks, add a chunk transfer header > for each one, and then write a trailer after it receives an end > document. And the web browser has to perform the inverse chunk header > parsing and stripping operation on the other end. > > With SCTP this extra overhead could all eliminated by letting the > transport protocol do what it is good it - transmitting distinct > messages, one message per response. If you do more than one message per > response, you are back to the same inefficiences that the TCP solution > has, more or less defeating the benefit of having record boundary > capability in the first place. > > RATIONALE > > With all of these interfaces, the web server never knows, and the > generating application or module often doesn't know, which of these data > generation calls will be the last in a document. So if you are writing > out one record per response (to gain any benefit in the first place), if > there is not an independent way to terminate a record, the web server > would have to always hold back some portion of the data. > > That adds unnecessary complexity to the web server, but there is another > problem. In order to make progress rendering a document, the web > browser needs as much data as soon as possible. If, for example, the > last angle bracket on a "" closing tag is left off for > artificial reasons, the renderer will just sit there until it comes > along, which stalls the process unnecessarily. > > Similar logic applies to database protocols, where you have a series of > queries each generating a response of arbitrary length, where the query > engine generates and transmits row data long before it knows how many > rows or how much row data there is going to be, and also where putting > message boundaries at the query response level is much cleaner and more > efficient than artificially wasting them at the row level, or chunking > rows together with yet another application level transport protocol. > > So the rationale is that allowing zero length message terminators maps > naturally to the way large dynamically sized messages are typically > generated, i.e. on the fly, with separate content generation and end > message operations. And that further, disallowing zero length message > terminators at the protocol level just adds application level complexity > and processing delays with no corresponding benefit whatsoever. And of > course SCTP stacks would actually get smaller. > > EFFICIENCY CONSIDERATIONS > > There is nothing that prevents the transport protocol implementation > from merging writes that belong to the same message together. In the > common case, whenever there is still message data waiting to be > transmitted, and an independent message terminator (i.e. a zero length > write with MSG_EOR set) is received, the stack can just flip a bit on > the last data chunk, and there will be no extra protocol level overhead > at all. > > The only case where a message terminator would need to be transmitted > independently would be when all the data for that message was already > sent. That would be relatively rare, and would only be incurred by > applications that benefit accordingly. And of course removing the > artificial restriction at the implementation level is trivial. > > - Mark B. -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 06:23:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgeew-0005nX-LH for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:23:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgeew-0003YV-EL for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:23:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 06:23:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PANbDa015415; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:23:37 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PANTlG012362; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:23:29 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PAN78Q017305 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:23:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PAN77b017301 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:23:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="415373353:sNHT44762196" Message-Id: <462F2CA1.50504@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:25:37 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: timetolive for partial sending and PR-SCTP References: <200704250854.53569.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704250854.53569.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 10:23:03.0747 (UTC) FILETIME=[B53A9930:01C78723] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=947; t=1177496618; x=1178360618; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20timetolive=20for=20partial=20sending=20and=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=tYKXN/gZhX9599eqcqi4ghyVJdDKihKgSajQfeMe+Yw=; b=fVLMpYYLweEHKhureEMvOhRVDzP84iHduHQYHlMywoGwxHMZ0iqmxhQrWrmMeEkDJ/R9CmBH FlkFLZfKJe/3wAMTgjh9uxxkuy6bedccRRML/j0XBuSxxp+4RO/6bquz; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=947; t=1177496586; x=1178360586; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20timetolive=20for=20partial=20sending=20and=20PR-SCTP |Sender:=20; bh=tYKXN/gZhX9599eqcqi4ghyVJdDKihKgSajQfeMe+Yw=; b=a1tL8ngwBKUu4VplZ9DPvXo9bj3+7QJaCk9Ietvaw/kKaf/j0kCWTDGrBzggtOMjD+c7bpEN 72VXttwQpm0wgatxafiY6rat/ZVWkPyyDWrReibMQfCefk+SR8bmYXWK; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Anders Torger wrote: > A number of questions concerning the timetolive parameter: > > How is the timetolive timer treated for messages using the partially > send API? > > Is the timer started when the first fragment of the message enters the > kernel (I would guess so!), or the last fragment? First of course.. > > When is the timer dropped when PR-SCTP is not enabled, when the first > fragment is sent, or when the last fragment is sent? (I would guess the > first!). Once something hits the wire it is never dropped.. so if you send any piece.. you no longer have the timer running.. > > For PR-SCTP, should the timer be dropped only when the last fragment has > been successfully delivered and ack'd by the peer? Yep.. you have to get all the msg across by the time out value. R > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 06:25:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgehB-0001Cf-DN for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:25:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgehB-0004Rq-5X for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:25:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 06:25:57 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PAPucV015902; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:25:56 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PAPtlG012741; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:25:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PAPsbZ017362 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:25:54 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PAPrMr017358 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:25:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="415374084:sNHT49200256" Message-Id: <462F2D38.9050303@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:28:08 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Butler CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, Anders Torger Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E3A24.7070505@middle.net> In-Reply-To: <462E3A24.7070505@middle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 10:25:35.0263 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F8A1AF0:01C78724] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2096; t=1177496756; x=1178360756; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Butler=20; bh=vK3gGL++6EK0N0s7MsTuedGZHmwha0uhbdWstD/pWY8=; b=E82V4cVVH2alJs/wNj7WE5/NeOMwheDyGuZxwa8LD7k5TAIPtaqAvLt3ySsa7loVjah5t3oq k0C0gtzFpIaVGlYpcCXxscz4Gs+AtI8CCkO8FAN7nv6as2Cf9Ke6hILc; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2096; t=1177496750; x=1178360750; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=vK3gGL++6EK0N0s7MsTuedGZHmwha0uhbdWstD/pWY8=; b=rHRbyVDnozLTEyzaph+14pKw8rKObpRaAUMsd3Q5wZVjZIHnJxRzcGkCCCJF2aKWOvcVDONF ZVTkJtIJVa4d0fpQ5X+pG8JoZbA7rYZjvHNvzuqZUnXkJAossRY0gObA; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Mark Butler wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > >> With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several partial >> deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. >> >> However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of partial >> deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a single stream, >> or is there some limit such that one can guarantee that there is only >> one unordered partial delivery going on per stream? >> >> The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the most, >> does anyone know if there can be more than one partial delivery for >> unordered messages on a single stream going on simultaneously? >> >> My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most one >> partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial delivery for >> an unordered message going on simultaneously, but I just realized that >> it may not be correct. >> >> > That assumption is correct. That is what level 2 means. > > The only way to support multiple partial deliveries on the same stream > at the same time would be to add a new level 3 to > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE, as well as add some sort of synthetic message > id (such as the start TSN) to the auxilliary receive info. Otherwise > there would be no way to attach partial deliveries to the correct message. The whole point of streams is to have ordered delivery.. so if Msg 1 is in stream 1 and Msg 2 is in stream 1, they are depandant on each other.. aka 1 needs to be delivered first (of course talking about ordered messages only though). The only way such an option would make sense is for unordered messages. R > > I think that would be a nice feature that would be trivial to implement > and which would allow applications to eliminate an important case of > head of line blocking problems that would occur even with relatively > small messages. I can only guess how anyone else feels of course. > > - Mark B. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From jan.newmarch@gmail.com Wed Apr 25 07:25:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgfcq-0004XC-7z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:25:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgfco-0005LV-0M for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:25:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 07:25:30 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PBPTRn025737; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:25:29 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PBOWlG023141; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:24:32 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PBMOJc018468 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:22:24 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PBMOmZ018464 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:22:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to jan.newmarch@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.162.230 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAEvXLkZA6aLmhmdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQgIBAkGAhk X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55501470:sNHT15900930" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=qXYbnNWie0P5VcVPB7DMEtVDJKhUxOeNLdcNMhtnG1DTkEFbfq8b8SNT3AnSVtFkb2vMS3ENAnRFzkIFbAjuKWonUio00JkfSsXoojBsIMtFlMi1Bcl/hy9ayv25DZga9pU0VbfiNKqaKj6KHKCoghXgMo1fEVOq6mSTfEwOXII= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=VOFuZMy2j7nY/unKwBcSFWXz9IZpfMo8B7TcElVB/y7+l6/Z2UbxRygujzsS255byOzxLpaFZ+vhsJLACsoPXzWe/nVgNweou98EcqaSmpiffBP+4mn1iq4IQcOXZZKpvWqwC44m5cLcDWCMtqIRz5gr/CRnjN626wITZluRKww= Message-Id: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:19:15 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Hi I thought I would use the SCTP_SENDALL flag on sctp_sndrcvinfo to do a lazy man's chat server: read a message from anyone, set the SCTP_SENDALL bit in sctp_sndrcvinfo.sinfo_flags and then just send it back. But that option isn't supported by Linux (at least, upto kernel 2.6.20). Since the Linux implementation seems to be pretty complete, I'm wondering if perhaps this is a not-really-supported option. Is it in other implementations? Thanks Jan -- From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 07:59:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HggA5-0006fr-RE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:59:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HggA5-0003R6-HM for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:59:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 07:59:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PBxqli008498; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:59:52 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PBxgGd004255; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:59:42 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PBx3MK018945 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:59:03 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PBx3dB018941 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:59:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAGDfLkbDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83505616:sNHT26474292" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:47:30 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704250904.01446.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5ebbf074524e58e662bc8209a6235027 Ok, in other words: Only one message per stream can be partially delivered, however if the partial delivery is of an ordered message, it may be interleaved with a full unordered message. If instead the partial delivery is of an unordered message, it cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message (since sinfo_ssn is zero there is no support in the API to know if it is the last fragment of the partial delivery or if it is a new full message). Hmm... this seems a bit messy. I don't like the exception for unordered messages. If there was a way to separate different unordered messages (like the sinfo_ssn for ordered), the rule could be simplified to: Only one message per stream can be partially delivered, however it can be interleaved with a full message on the same stream (an partially delivered ordered message interleaved with a full unordered message and vice versa). /Anders Torger On Wednesday 25 April 2007 12:12, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: > > Randall, > > > > you (indirectly) say two contradicting things here, first that > > there will only be one message at a time partially delivered per > > stream, regardless if it is unordered or not, and then you say my > > assumption that there can be one ordered and one unordered (=2) > > partial deliveries per stream simultaneously is correct too. > > Sorry I was not clear.. > > > Could you please clarify? > > BSD will allow only ONE PD-API per stream. It does not > care if the message is ordered or unordered. Basically if > you set level-2, then there is a stream-started-delivery flag > that gets set when the PD-API begins... no other message will > be delivered for that stream until the PD-API terminates.. > > This is what I think the spec says as well.. aka: > > Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. > > It does not say "only one ordered and as many unordered as you would > like".. only one message partially delivered in any stream.. > > Now, I suppose you COULD get a message non-partially delivered in > a stream that was unordered where a PD-API was happening.. i.e. > lets say you > > recv() <--- BEGIN stream=1 SSN=3 NO-MSG_EOR > (you are now in PD-API for stream 1) > You migiht get (and still be within the above restriction > recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and MSG_EOR > > Since the wording above does not prohibit this.. It does > prohibit this though: > > recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and NO-MSG_EOR > > > BSD will not do either one.. once you begin delivery in stream 1 you > MUST get all the message before ANY other message in stream 1 will > arrive. > > Does that help? ;-D > > R > > > /Anders Torger > > > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 17:02, Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Anders Torger wrote: > >>> With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several > >>> partial deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. > >>> > >>> However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of > >>> partial deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a > >>> single stream, or is there some limit such that one can guarantee > >>> that there is only one unordered partial delivery going on per > >>> stream? > >> > >> Well an unordered msg DOES have a stream associated with > >> it even though the ssn means nothing. > >> The spec (though not binding) does say.. > >> " > >> Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any > >> stream. " > >> Which implies that you should NOT get more than one PD-API in > >> any stream no matter if its ordered or unordered. > >> > >> I know BSD will enforce this.. > >> > >>> The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the > >>> most, does anyone know if there can be more than one partial > >>> delivery for unordered messages on a single stream going on > >>> simultaneously? > >> > >> Don't know on solaris.. but BSD won't allow it.. (of course > >> you must set the level to 2 to get the fragment interleave > >> anyway). > >> > >>> My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most > >>> one partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial > >>> delivery for an unordered message going on simultaneously, but I > >>> just realized that it may not be correct. > >> > >> I think you are correct.. at least the document says so.. > >> > >> R From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 08:28:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hggbp-0003cW-Gf for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:28:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hggbo-0000fB-50 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:28:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 08:28:32 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PCSVxN018867; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:28:31 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PCRpGd011398; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:27:51 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PCR7wC019383 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:27:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PCR7kb019379 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:27:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="140391884:sNHT52000218" Message-Id: <462F49B2.4050907@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:29:38 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704250904.01446.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 12:27:04.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[08671BE0:01C78735] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5027; t=1177504111; x=1178368111; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=zMyZR3+oAfLeboluDrW6d/jlZOW1pYfSUoKzD0qx88k=; b=l5K2Q1hHgSDGgM693nfsaLv6cuMgrjLn+TOL1R0tvqyc9+Y+8u12N2CoDPcSmNVu+v6pZM1T CDw6f19dgj3yVeUUR4iciwZtpd++APlBPgclowBb99xAdkwxVeCC6PrY; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5027; t=1177504025; x=1178368025; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=zMyZR3+oAfLeboluDrW6d/jlZOW1pYfSUoKzD0qx88k=; b=AFm3sHBw1wO22WB59F9pTfXpwfjk0ct4+E9NOBOGnryYTQjm5WdBDH6Lre7i+VnZ6ajQkmoH e6Z5K4GrbteBGwV00s22XpeHB73E8WVFg1t8dgE4tJteWVqG2sd3x4x3; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 Anders Torger wrote: > Ok, in other words: > > Only one message per stream can be partially delivered, however if the > partial delivery is of an ordered message, it may be interleaved with a > full unordered message. Not of the same stream though.. basically no matter if its an ordered or unordered message.. once it starts partial delivery, it blocks any more messages on that stream from being received. > > If instead the partial delivery is of an unordered message, it cannot be > interleaved with a full unordered message (since sinfo_ssn is zero > there is no support in the API to know if it is the last fragment of > the partial delivery or if it is a new full message). > > Hmm... this seems a bit messy. I don't like the exception for unordered > messages. If there was a way to separate different unordered messages > (like the sinfo_ssn for ordered), the rule could be simplified to: There is no exception that I read in the spec.. only one message in a stream can be partially delivered. Please tell me what is unclear about this.. unordered messages are also assigned a stream number.. R > > Only one message per stream can be partially delivered, however it can > be interleaved with a full message on the same stream (an partially > delivered ordered message interleaved with a full unordered message and > vice versa). > > /Anders Torger > > On Wednesday 25 April 2007 12:12, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> Randall, >>> >>> you (indirectly) say two contradicting things here, first that >>> there will only be one message at a time partially delivered per >>> stream, regardless if it is unordered or not, and then you say my >>> assumption that there can be one ordered and one unordered (=2) >>> partial deliveries per stream simultaneously is correct too. >> Sorry I was not clear.. >> >>> Could you please clarify? >> BSD will allow only ONE PD-API per stream. It does not >> care if the message is ordered or unordered. Basically if >> you set level-2, then there is a stream-started-delivery flag >> that gets set when the PD-API begins... no other message will >> be delivered for that stream until the PD-API terminates.. >> >> This is what I think the spec says as well.. aka: >> >> Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any stream. >> >> It does not say "only one ordered and as many unordered as you would >> like".. only one message partially delivered in any stream.. >> >> Now, I suppose you COULD get a message non-partially delivered in >> a stream that was unordered where a PD-API was happening.. i.e. >> lets say you >> >> recv() <--- BEGIN stream=1 SSN=3 NO-MSG_EOR >> (you are now in PD-API for stream 1) >> You migiht get (and still be within the above restriction >> recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and MSG_EOR >> >> Since the wording above does not prohibit this.. It does >> prohibit this though: >> >> recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and NO-MSG_EOR >> >> >> BSD will not do either one.. once you begin delivery in stream 1 you >> MUST get all the message before ANY other message in stream 1 will >> arrive. >> >> Does that help? ;-D >> >> R >> >>> /Anders Torger >>> >>> On Tuesday 24 April 2007 17:02, Randall Stewart wrote: >>>> Anders Torger wrote: >>>>> With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several >>>>> partial deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. >>>>> >>>>> However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of >>>>> partial deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a >>>>> single stream, or is there some limit such that one can guarantee >>>>> that there is only one unordered partial delivery going on per >>>>> stream? >>>> Well an unordered msg DOES have a stream associated with >>>> it even though the ssn means nothing. >>>> The spec (though not binding) does say.. >>>> " >>>> Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any >>>> stream. " >>>> Which implies that you should NOT get more than one PD-API in >>>> any stream no matter if its ordered or unordered. >>>> >>>> I know BSD will enforce this.. >>>> >>>>> The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the >>>>> most, does anyone know if there can be more than one partial >>>>> delivery for unordered messages on a single stream going on >>>>> simultaneously? >>>> Don't know on solaris.. but BSD won't allow it.. (of course >>>> you must set the level to 2 to get the fragment interleave >>>> anyway). >>>> >>>>> My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most >>>>> one partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial >>>>> delivery for an unordered message going on simultaneously, but I >>>>> just realized that it may not be correct. >>>> I think you are correct.. at least the document says so.. >>>> >>>> R > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 08:29:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HggcO-0003f8-DI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:29:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HggcN-0000id-6J for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:29:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 08:29:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PCT6tj019074; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:29:06 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PCSqGd011676; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:28:52 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PCSWIW019411 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:28:32 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PCSWGU019407 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:28:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="140392579:sNHT12904333839" Message-Id: <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:30:55 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Newmarch CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 12:28:22.0203 (UTC) FILETIME=[3693F0B0:01C78735] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=689; t=1177504146; x=1178368146; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Jan=20Newmarch=20; bh=EOEapv/Gk5I2GdefQi7VPbaaHI+2e9mDYSfsbkaLBLU=; b=RoxqKBe2LZW9bXw0jkLvcFlo+lueRm0ym786MBZMTIBAl97PL5qMv3PhvBkk4NLaXt4Fyp1g qV1Fej+eYgBKClfkq2uv+4+l+5JoraunRKo9tRrGWGeh8JvYijKCP/lV; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=689; t=1177504102; x=1178368102; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20; bh=EOEapv/Gk5I2GdefQi7VPbaaHI+2e9mDYSfsbkaLBLU=; b=PbVFto1TPVsDRujN9wP5nA1ZwgD4hQJ8PIrGs5avBSgGQ3Hfwo9QjZwkOeTKx5hq02F1qtWA XeR/8LSpWwuTgSXHzXG/34I1SmH+E95OyuJALgWjfQ9NMXV7cY6ib1cisjsbTBlIB2SSLj3NXc 1g2dRCEC5KTMjnq7JPbvi0HCw=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Jan Newmarch wrote: > Hi > > I thought I would use the SCTP_SENDALL flag on sctp_sndrcvinfo to do a > lazy man's chat server: read a message from anyone, set the > SCTP_SENDALL bit in sctp_sndrcvinfo.sinfo_flags and then just send it > back. But that option isn't supported by Linux (at least, upto kernel > 2.6.20). Since the Linux implementation seems to be pretty complete, > I'm wondering if perhaps this is a not-really-supported option. Is it > in other implementations? > > Thanks > > Jan > -- > Yes, it is a supported option in BSD.. Linux tends to lag behind.. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 08:31:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HggeS-0003qS-PF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HggeS-00011U-DD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 08:31:16 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PCVFnq013547; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:15 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PCVAGd012381; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:31:10 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PCV0At019469 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:00 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PCV07r019465 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPDlLkbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83516018:sNHT34340121" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:19:11 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Sorry for replying to myself, but I just found out that it does not seem to messy if I change the wording: - Only one message per stream can be partially delivered. - A partially delivered message can be interleaved with a full message with opposite order mode on the same stream. - That is an ordered partial delivery can be interleaved with a full unordered message and vice versa. But an unordered partial delivery cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message. There is a small head-of-line blocking introduced here in the API for unordered messages, but I guess it can be accepted. /Anders Torger On Wednesday 25 April 2007 13:47, Anders Torger wrote: > Ok, in other words: > > Only one message per stream can be partially delivered, however if > the partial delivery is of an ordered message, it may be interleaved > with a full unordered message. > > If instead the partial delivery is of an unordered message, it cannot > be interleaved with a full unordered message (since sinfo_ssn is zero > there is no support in the API to know if it is the last fragment of > the partial delivery or if it is a new full message). > > Hmm... this seems a bit messy. I don't like the exception for > unordered messages. If there was a way to separate different > unordered messages (like the sinfo_ssn for ordered), the rule could > be simplified to: > > Only one message per stream can be partially delivered, however it > can be interleaved with a full message on the same stream (an > partially delivered ordered message interleaved with a full unordered > message and vice versa). > > /Anders Torger > > On Wednesday 25 April 2007 12:12, Randall Stewart wrote: > > Anders Torger wrote: > > > Randall, > > > > > > you (indirectly) say two contradicting things here, first that > > > there will only be one message at a time partially delivered per > > > stream, regardless if it is unordered or not, and then you say my > > > assumption that there can be one ordered and one unordered (=2) > > > partial deliveries per stream simultaneously is correct too. > > > > Sorry I was not clear.. > > > > > Could you please clarify? > > > > BSD will allow only ONE PD-API per stream. It does not > > care if the message is ordered or unordered. Basically if > > you set level-2, then there is a stream-started-delivery flag > > that gets set when the PD-API begins... no other message will > > be delivered for that stream until the PD-API terminates.. > > > > This is what I think the spec says as well.. aka: > > > > Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any > > stream. > > > > It does not say "only one ordered and as many unordered as you > > would like".. only one message partially delivered in any stream.. > > > > Now, I suppose you COULD get a message non-partially delivered in > > a stream that was unordered where a PD-API was happening.. i.e. > > lets say you > > > > recv() <--- BEGIN stream=1 SSN=3 NO-MSG_EOR > > (you are now in PD-API for stream 1) > > You migiht get (and still be within the above restriction > > recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and MSG_EOR > > > > Since the wording above does not prohibit this.. It does > > prohibit this though: > > > > recv() <----stream=1 flags=UNORDERED and NO-MSG_EOR > > > > > > BSD will not do either one.. once you begin delivery in stream 1 > > you MUST get all the message before ANY other message in stream 1 > > will arrive. > > > > Does that help? ;-D > > > > R > > > > > /Anders Torger > > > > > > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 17:02, Randall Stewart wrote: > > >> Anders Torger wrote: > > >>> With no limits in fragment interleave, there can be several > > >>> partial deliveries going on, one per stream for ordered mode. > > >>> > > >>> However, when it comes to unordered messages, the number of > > >>> partial deliveries could theoretically be more than one for a > > >>> single stream, or is there some limit such that one can > > >>> guarantee that there is only one unordered partial delivery > > >>> going on per stream? > > >> > > >> Well an unordered msg DOES have a stream associated with > > >> it even though the ssn means nothing. > > >> The spec (though not binding) does say.. > > >> " > > >> Only one message at a time can be partially delivered in any > > >> stream. " > > >> Which implies that you should NOT get more than one PD-API in > > >> any stream no matter if its ordered or unordered. > > >> > > >> I know BSD will enforce this.. > > >> > > >>> The current Solaris SCTP implementation seems to interleave the > > >>> most, does anyone know if there can be more than one partial > > >>> delivery for unordered messages on a single stream going on > > >>> simultaneously? > > >> > > >> Don't know on solaris.. but BSD won't allow it.. (of course > > >> you must set the level to 2 to get the fragment interleave > > >> anyway). > > >> > > >>> My assumption so far has been that there is per stream at most > > >>> one partial delivery for an ordered message and one partial > > >>> delivery for an unordered message going on simultaneously, but > > >>> I just realized that it may not be correct. > > >> > > >> I think you are correct.. at least the document says so.. > > >> > > >> R From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 08:34:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hggh9-00056S-NI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:34:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hggh8-0001Z6-FR for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:34:03 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 08:34:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PCY0Ue020968; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:34:00 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PCXtlG007601; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:33:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PCXbCd019503 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:33:37 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PCXbai019499 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:33:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="372085294:sNHT47055912" Message-Id: <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:36:05 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 12:33:32.0638 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF9C8FE0:01C78735] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1526; t=1177504440; x=1178368440; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=SisJa41JSBrj2Y4gSn7XxKl5dArtyHlih4Nn1XD1E0E=; b=LGeuFafRz6L8U8lUHFJIlUYFNtv9xl0x5n7HQ0DBSjEc615yQN6OiGQh2tcz5vwdQiKpGRwf Cj7lAq4AtN2pHEKaf7Yr0zjDesrRAwJum7O9ZE+WyHgUuDg0rysghD0m; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1526; t=1177504416; x=1178368416; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=SisJa41JSBrj2Y4gSn7XxKl5dArtyHlih4Nn1XD1E0E=; b=OB5sVpCFyVEYX/olxvyivRnWoSlur4SWOBuRXX47jwsqNdUWQuNCOExKLBxfmaLhgnY1mlB0 WhgdQw4Ae9sY2TYER4W/fMoRFYmPzgqfJhTs+0BIsFBnTI/0Anj7VaaEKsRg/oUlqwRyYsPZlE eGfR9oU0Q+ISYBR4rvTA5Z4NU=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Ok now I get what you are saying... did not understand the last email.. so your reply to you helped :-D Anders Torger wrote: > Sorry for replying to myself, but I just found out that it does not seem > to messy if I change the wording: > > - Only one message per stream can be partially delivered. correct. > - A partially delivered message can be interleaved with a full message > with opposite order mode on the same stream. Yes, I would guess. Not in BSD but the spec does not prevent this.. > - That is an ordered partial delivery can be interleaved with a > full unordered message and vice versa. But an unordered partial > delivery cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message. why not? If you were going to support this .. you COULD deliver <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR and <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR or <--- Ordered msg (strm=1 seq=X) MSG_EOR What you can NOT do is: <----Ordered msg (strm=1, seq=X) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR <----Ordered msg (strm=1, seq=X+1) MSG_EOR Since this would violate ordering rules. Now that all being said.. I don't plan to do any of the above on BSD.. it gets a bit to tricky and adds to much code to the receive path which is already getting overweight :-D R > > There is a small head-of-line blocking introduced here in the API for > unordered messages, but I guess it can be accepted. -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From bmmvqn@a-web.com Wed Apr 25 09:25:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HghVE-0000cO-5Z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:25:49 -0400 Received: from [58.208.74.111] (helo=42FD6780) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HghVB-0000UV-8l; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:25:48 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO deflate) (192.168.0.2) by mail6.max.com with SMTP; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:25:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:25:19 -0800 Message-ID: <08428915.6882558420243.JavaMail.nfsnobody@max.com> Brma: blanch [192.0.2.185] BrmaSmtpAuthUser: haddock X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at max.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: schema-archive@ietf.org, scoya@ietf.org, sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org, seamoby@ietf.org, seamoby-admin@ietf.org From: "Aurelia Jennings" Subject: Buy a new Perrelet watch X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Solid 14k or 18k Gold on two-toned models http://www.geocities.com/Sappeze96752?rvaohDy Stylish replica watches from famous brands If you are looking for a stylish, quality costume watch at low prices, our offers are for you. 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Qualitative Brietling watches at Replica Classics Reliable watches for everyone at Replica Classics http://www.geocities.com/Sappeze96752?s5n5M From iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu Wed Apr 25 10:08:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiA5-0008A8-U5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:08:02 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiA2-0000gL-5Y for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:08:01 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 10:07:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PE7viN026724; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:07:57 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PE7KlG005509; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:07:20 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PE5TaX020955 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:05:29 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PE5THc020951 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:05:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 136.244.1.20 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMv8LkaI9AEUh2dsb2JhbACQDwEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55543075:sNHT18906615" Message-Id: <462F5FC9.9030108@mail.eecis.udel.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:03:53 -0400 From: Janardhan Iyengar Reply-To: iyengar@cis.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 14:04:18.0189 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D69B3D0:01C78742] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=iyengar@mail.eecis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb > why not? If you were going to support this .. you COULD deliver > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR > and > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR > or > <--- Ordered msg (strm=1 seq=X) MSG_EOR > > What you can NOT do is: > > <----Ordered msg (strm=1, seq=X) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR > <----Ordered msg (strm=1, seq=X+1) MSG_EOR > > Since this would violate ordering rules. > > Now that all being said.. I don't plan to do any of the above on > BSD.. it gets a bit to tricky and adds to much code to the receive > path which is already getting overweight :-D This looks ugly to me, and seems like inconsistencies can be introduced between implementations that may make life difficult for apps. I do not want to speak for app developers, but it seems to me that clarification should be there in the doc. One way or the other, we should have more clarity about what can/cannot be done. If we want to have the possibility of partial delivery of ordered with interleaving full delivery of unordered, maybe that can be stated clearly? App developers can then expect it. My opinion is that this interleaving should be kept out, and that the doc should clearly state it so. It seems to make things messy in the general case... but there may be others who finf this valuable. What do you all think? - jana -- Janardhan R. Iyengar Visiting Assistant Professor Connecticut College http://cs.conncoll.edu/iyengar/ From jan.newmarch@gmail.com Wed Apr 25 10:08:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiAC-0008Vh-Tu for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:08:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiAB-0000jM-MP for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:08:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 10:08:05 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PE85qd026774; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:08:05 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PE7nGd011549; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:07:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PE6qZK020976 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:06:52 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PE6q4Q020972 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:06:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to jan.newmarch@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.162.227 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMv8LkZA6aLjhmdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQgIBA8b X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55543473:sNHT41345541" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=d4fNZ3/Vi03iLkLbqxaHuVhP27+Fha5pwsYFw+OiX4810flkm/Gy3VMeSYM7PyQmtu11ppsbfetDmUlkfx4OVvd4zMKqnxn5I+SHx3uPBSxgs+cMFoXFMa3S/B6t6xIAM3ZBuWQLX5u8cXPaUHE25NjRkEJO8TjLhcMFX5rZajA= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lyd9k7g5qQZ+UqbkbZYqTaDtEiar24RSQ2Dim3Prm1lias7aKgn3dUe2r59b4SMkJf7FT0YyvejuLgdkZhXZ73RcZJydPRky2OkZSlfPhDgvWIEAHWZWtonRc2AD8U/krx3Sbw+nXbLredR0RZ+iSvCSY4hyNF9YZWnCa1VaZ5c= Message-Id: <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:03:45 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: "Randall Stewart" Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com In-Reply-To: <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Thanks Randall What happens with SCTP_SENDALL if one of the sends to an association fails? Do attempts to other associations continue or does sendmsg fail at that point? Does sendmsg return -1 or the number of bytes written to one of the successful associations? Does each failed association generate a separate sctp_send_failed event? I couldn't find anything in the socket API draft 14. Cheers Jan -- On 4/25/07, Randall Stewart wrote: > Jan Newmarch wrote: > > Hi > > > > I thought I would use the SCTP_SENDALL flag on sctp_sndrcvinfo to do a > > lazy man's chat server: read a message from anyone, set the > > SCTP_SENDALL bit in sctp_sndrcvinfo.sinfo_flags and then just send it > > back. But that option isn't supported by Linux (at least, upto kernel > > 2.6.20). Since the Linux implementation seems to be pretty complete, > > I'm wondering if perhaps this is a not-really-supported option. Is it > > in other implementations? > > > > Thanks > > > > Jan > > -- > > > Yes, it is a supported option in BSD.. Linux tends to lag > behind.. > > R > > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > From vladislav.yasevich@hp.com Wed Apr 25 10:12:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiE4-0003I3-8N for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:12:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiE3-0001uM-0m for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:12:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 10:12:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PEC6x5028605; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:12:06 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PEBslG006795; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:11:54 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PEBeu3021042 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:11:40 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PEBeeE021038 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:11:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to vladislav.yasevich@hp.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 156.153.255.213 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABX+Lkacmf/VoWdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQEHCAYNHQ X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,450,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83551098:sNHT138384171" Message-Id: <462F6138.9090505@hp.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:10:00 -0400 From: Vlad Yasevich User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Stewart CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=vladislav.yasevich@hp.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Randall Randall Stewart wrote: > Ok now I get what you are saying... did not understand the > last email.. so your reply to you helped :-D > > Anders Torger wrote: >> Sorry for replying to myself, but I just found out that it does not >> seem to messy if I change the wording: >> >> - Only one message per stream can be partially delivered. > > correct. > >> - A partially delivered message can be interleaved with a full message >> with opposite order mode on the same stream. > > Yes, I would guess. Not in BSD but the spec does not prevent this.. > >> - That is an ordered partial delivery can be interleaved with a >> full unordered message and vice versa. But an unordered partial >> delivery cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message. > > why not? If you were going to support this .. you COULD deliver > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR > and > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR How is the application supposed to tell if the second message is a completion of the first, or a separate message by itself? There is no sigal/flag on the message that says it's a partial delivery. At least I haven't seen one defined. Having such a flag, might allow for the above scenario. > or > <--- Ordered msg (strm=1 seq=X) MSG_EOR > -vlad From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 10:56:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgiuc-0007TJ-1E for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:56:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgiua-0002l9-Pn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:56:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 10:56:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PEu3RY023734; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:56:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PEtkGd025538; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:55:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PEtQAk021661 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:55:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PEtQDY021657 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:55:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIMIL0bDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,451,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83569069:sNHT25383654" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:43:58 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704251643.58552.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 On Wednesday 25 April 2007 14:36, Randall Stewart wrote: > > - That is an ordered partial delivery can be interleaved with > > a full unordered message and vice versa. But an unordered partial > > delivery cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message. > > why not? If you were going to support this .. you COULD deliver > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR > and > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR > or > <--- Ordered msg (strm=1 seq=X) MSG_EOR The problem is that the information you get in your sctp_sndrcvinfo is not enough. You cannot differ between <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR (first fragment) <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API MSG_EOR (last fragment) and <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR (first fragment) <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR (full unrelated message) Mark Butler pointed out this problem in an earlier mail. With an ordered message you have the sinfo_ssn which make it possible to differ between messages, but for ordered messages there is no need, since they always come in order. (One could use sinfo_ssn on ordered messages to detect aborted partial delivery though, if the stack does not support MSG_TRUNC flag and while there's no stream member in SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT). I tried to figure out if I could use the sinfo_tsn/sinfo_cumtsn in some way to detect the difference between a new unordered message or the continuation of a partial delivered one, but I don't think that is possible. If the sinfo_tsn always contained the tsn of the first chunk of the message, regardless if recvmsg() returned a fragment into the message, then it would be possible. But sinfo_tsn typically contains the tsn of the first or the last chunk in the fragment recvmsg() returns. /Anders Torger From torger@ludd.ltu.se Wed Apr 25 11:45:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgjgk-0006lr-4h for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:45:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgjgi-0000bK-Tr for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:45:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 11:45:49 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PFjmKa019289; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:45:48 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PFj1lG006391; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:45:01 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PFhK6M022475 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:43:21 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PFhKRO022471 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:43:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.73 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAD0UL0bDNmtJkmdsb2JhbACQDwEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,451,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55571033:sNHT24309972" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: SCTP_ABORT Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:31:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704251731.49300.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 The socket API draft says that SCTP_ABORT is only applicable to one-to-many sockets. I think that should be changed such that it applies to one-to-one sockets too. Actually, on Solaris it already does. SCTP_EOF could as well, but close() can be used for that so there's no need to have it on one-to-one sockets. The SO_LINGER trick to abort an association works on a one-to-one socket, but then you cannot provide any upper layer abort reason which you can with SCTP_ABORT. /Anders Torger From uqqcamp@e-apollo.lv Wed Apr 25 11:47:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgjiS-0008U4-W2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:47:36 -0400 Received: from dsl54028635.pool.t-online.hu ([84.2.134.53]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgjiR-0001TB-BB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:47:36 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c78761$cdfa7830$066cef0c@recom201f3a067> From: "Jan Grant" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Be none weaponry Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:47:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78761.CDFA7830" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2969 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78761.CDFA7830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hellish report is here... 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Perhaps because he From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 15:31:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnCt-0000e8-Ag for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnCr-0007iH-2d for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 15:31:13 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PJVCNW012398; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:12 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PJTsGd028535; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:29:54 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PJRbtU026839 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:27:37 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PJRbip026835 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:27:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,451,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="56229218:sNHT76250151" Message-Id: <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:30:01 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Newmarch CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 19:27:28.0810 (UTC) FILETIME=[C31FA8A0:01C7876F] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1132; t=1177529472; x=1178393472; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Jan=20Newmarch=20; bh=n7DJ6s+sQmNPaM4Sxqzgc8VFbxbCkXEB9BUjIzJIyvI=; b=UhyAVUHt0E9rSHh94tuz7l0JQaLPjR/08RJ2P7CkvHvRUGIRFULaKhcT5DEB2lMEVq+1krd4 anTKBe30Z1mSyeb4Hx45Q/zXiJoBRvxhCNtoeSBK0tlZ3m6JYzjvRxPM; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1132; t=1177529254; x=1178393254; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20; bh=n7DJ6s+sQmNPaM4Sxqzgc8VFbxbCkXEB9BUjIzJIyvI=; b=T4SefozQjCPef+/XwCPMovECBBTer3m8en9J34XwOl0F4WjC3eEkQy6PxaU28BWedrPXq/vD d+27FPTotPt/xGbD99r+Z1qVl/5XIrV5ZBez8hibEOxpSWKFRqEUkMmD; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Jan Newmarch wrote: > Thanks Randall > > What happens with SCTP_SENDALL if one of the sends to an association > fails? Well the only way you can find this out is to get the send failure events. Do attempts to other associations continue or does sendmsg fail > at that point? The message is queued to every assoc under the socket. In fact chance are all will be queued before you ever get a failure.. since the threshold are such (by default) that it takes quite a few retransmissons to get a failure... In any event there is a iterator object that goes off and copies the same mbuf to all pieces of the asoc's Does sendmsg return -1 or the number of bytes written > to one of the successful associations? You won't get such an indication.. basically the only way you find out is with the event. Does each failed association > generate a separate sctp_send_failed event? Yep. I couldn't find anything > in the socket API draft 14. > Hmm... good point we probably need to add text :-D R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 15:31:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnDV-0000p1-DB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnDV-0007ky-5N for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 15:31:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PJVqip005864; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:52 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PJVhlG025597; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:31:43 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PJUj4Q026919 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:30:45 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PJUjqb026915 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:30:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,451,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="56231546:sNHT48211326" Message-Id: <462FACF7.4020701@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:33:11 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> <200704251643.58552.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704251643.58552.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 19:30:38.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[3459DD60:01C78770] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2238; t=1177529512; x=1178393512; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=IwFOm2OlMf/Tjh6EUK3McfTDgSh5ke70/otyvhV5ONI=; b=cz4002hWVauM66Ny+wF0aXZLToUKA0+moPb89IkPinqSkploioK5YLSLJ8GUYUJpxFpFiusm SJ8Rvh1RKeRwA6bpVoSq0y/ulwIvCAqNQ7789JSg5ZMhtUb+2Hz8151T; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2238; t=1177529443; x=1178393443; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=IwFOm2OlMf/Tjh6EUK3McfTDgSh5ke70/otyvhV5ONI=; b=pAwBY6CYhs0ZkFUveS7tgFKf9mo1KBXOSCUIObWwepeihIz5P6sOjoZieMAvf686WKusUi2s rkvjqWnGfAGxJhmgHXSbDv39cWbIcB7KWCXr8Nggy5VLXMfTER7DI50Z; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Anders Torger wrote: > On Wednesday 25 April 2007 14:36, Randall Stewart wrote: >>> - That is an ordered partial delivery can be interleaved with >>> a full unordered message and vice versa. But an unordered partial >>> delivery cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message. >> why not? If you were going to support this .. you COULD deliver >> <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR >> and >> <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR >> or >> <--- Ordered msg (strm=1 seq=X) MSG_EOR > > The problem is that the information you get in your sctp_sndrcvinfo is > not enough. > > You cannot differ between > > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR (first fragment) > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API MSG_EOR (last fragment) > > and > > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR (first fragment) > <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR (full unrelated message) > > Mark Butler pointed out this problem in an earlier mail. Good point.. I missed this.. so I think its even a better reason NOT to allow any more deliveries on a stream once it gets a PD-API.. unordered or ordered. It would prevent the above ;-D R > > With an ordered message you have the sinfo_ssn which make it possible to > differ between messages, but for ordered messages there is no need, > since they always come in order. (One could use sinfo_ssn on ordered > messages to detect aborted partial delivery though, if the stack does > not support MSG_TRUNC flag and while there's no stream member in > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT). > > I tried to figure out if I could use the sinfo_tsn/sinfo_cumtsn in some > way to detect the difference between a new unordered message or the > continuation of a partial delivered one, but I don't think that is > possible. If the sinfo_tsn always contained the tsn of the first chunk > of the message, regardless if recvmsg() returned a fragment into the > message, then it would be possible. But sinfo_tsn typically contains > the tsn of the first or the last chunk in the fragment recvmsg() > returns. > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 15:35:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnGc-0004iW-Kl for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:35:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnGc-00086H-DT for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:35:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 15:34:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PJYqXU007216; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:34:52 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PJYgGd000021; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:34:42 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PJYMlV026966 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:34:22 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PJYMHj026962 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:34:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,451,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="415581660:sNHT2076319938" Message-Id: <462FADBE.9000002@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:36:30 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: SCTP_ABORT References: <200704251731.49300.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704251731.49300.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 19:33:57.0969 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB149C10:01C78770] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1101; t=1177529692; x=1178393692; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_ABORT |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=tslV6G1PkuhkT7sVdkd04pggCbacvMLrLM9idFbdwZw=; b=NeJ3zkEomn3Nk/nB3ynaaBXXSD1pzRKi1jUFtVgXvE8fvGz9VpLJdcTk/soyU4c3ryI0Ps76 ufxLJ7ATbwyq9yq1xt4r1clBdVevPewQQETC/oN3Vd3DT/A3ajScJ/uk; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1101; t=1177529645; x=1178393645; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20SCTP_ABORT |Sender:=20; bh=tslV6G1PkuhkT7sVdkd04pggCbacvMLrLM9idFbdwZw=; b=Ln1d4fIcp8gD+8D8Rhr1TdsrkF5sdorzN7wf3VYAj5OTm0+ERGmZFF0JIpAyCfMnDSOjW8cQ lW49oYqChWVnZR7br63x8UEcaMTaRAzePbMHmPNwFfNykRiOUbt2N8sWq8JBvWijn+Kk8o429a RpGCp7WMVjeJ+rWmFPXA6w0F4=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Anders Torger wrote: > The socket API draft says that SCTP_ABORT is only applicable to > one-to-many sockets. I think that should be changed such that it > applies to one-to-one sockets too. > > Actually, on Solaris it already does. Hmm I did not realize this was a restriction on that. I think on BSD it will let you do a send with SCTP_ABORT on any assoc.. one-2-one or one-2-many.. > > SCTP_EOF could as well, but close() can be used for that so there's no > need to have it on one-to-one sockets. True.. and once you do a EOF on it.. the socket is of no use.. well now wait.. before I make that statement.. it comes to me it can be of use.. the active open side, in theory, can reuse the socket to connect to someone else... I believe we allow this on BSD... The SO_LINGER trick to abort an > association works on a one-to-one socket, but then you cannot provide > any upper layer abort reason which you can with SCTP_ABORT. True.. R > > /Anders Torger > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From rrs@cisco.com Wed Apr 25 15:47:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnSX-0004L2-AF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:47:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgnSX-0001OH-2d for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:47:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 15:47:26 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PJlOZ3012893; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:47:24 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PJl6lG000142; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:47:06 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PJkQMS027191 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:46:26 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PJkQ3M027187 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:46:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,451,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="140558314:sNHT12852703989" Message-Id: <462FB091.3070106@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:48:33 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad Yasevich CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> <462F6138.9090505@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <462F6138.9090505@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2007 19:46:01.0094 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A18BA60:01C78772] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1897; t=1177530444; x=1178394444; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Vlad=20Yasevich=20; bh=rI4mJCAXRhGRxVNdfZQNeM7iVVfr5vc4wWPH3J7bKpI=; b=b60yyo5Mt6CXUij6EzaL/H0dQs+c9V4Dy4ozwDdwlxySPyW3Q7Cwioe7uxOzm4hZkHrfGnKw tQwCI+292I10CP8A+VMxfHyJSLP577DxFwWpy6hmg+wOZi2lSK5HrzTH; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1897; t=1177530362; x=1178394362; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=rI4mJCAXRhGRxVNdfZQNeM7iVVfr5vc4wWPH3J7bKpI=; b=q+3stdvKHc4WwUHmwMx2+m3vL8AXMrRhA5qvic3jPjd/nPFwuzpXRqPUPoOb4VQeqAf2vDgR IkmwRBSuwyyWnfaeDqvq6clIvs3zpJCWDK8DIfn19UkD/4fxn+BnOtEv; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Vlad Yasevich wrote: > Randall > > Randall Stewart wrote: >> Ok now I get what you are saying... did not understand the >> last email.. so your reply to you helped :-D >> >> Anders Torger wrote: >>> Sorry for replying to myself, but I just found out that it does not >>> seem to messy if I change the wording: >>> >>> - Only one message per stream can be partially delivered. >> correct. >> >>> - A partially delivered message can be interleaved with a full message >>> with opposite order mode on the same stream. >> Yes, I would guess. Not in BSD but the spec does not prevent this.. >> >>> - That is an ordered partial delivery can be interleaved with a >>> full unordered message and vice versa. But an unordered partial >>> delivery cannot be interleaved with a full unordered message. >> why not? If you were going to support this .. you COULD deliver >> <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) PD-API NO-MSG_EOR >> and >> <--- Unordered msg (strm=1) MSG_EOR > > How is the application supposed to tell if the second message is a completion > of the first, or a separate message by itself? > I missed this point :-( > There is no sigal/flag on the message that says it's a partial delivery. At > least I haven't seen one defined. Having such a flag, might allow for the > above scenario. I think we just aught to disallow delivery of anything more in a stream once you start a pd-api for that stream. If its so critical to send a message at the same time.. the app can use an unordered message in a different stream ;-) If I hear no complaints I will see if I can add some text to explicitly state that once PD-API has started in a stream.. no other messages will be delivered in that stream until the full message is read. 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Email me direclty at tnoal@BounceEmail.info From samudrala.sridhar@gmail.com Wed Apr 25 19:41:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgr6l-0006R2-TD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:41:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgr6k-0007ef-Ky for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:41:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 19:41:11 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3PNf9gb022593; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:41:09 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3PNe8Gd002943; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:40:08 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3PNc7qO031626 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:38:07 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3PNc7Nm031622 for sctp-impl-filtered; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:38:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to samudrala.sridhar@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.184.238 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADSDL0ZA6bjujWdsb2JhbACQEQEBAQEHCAQJCBs X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,452,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55690750:sNHT17992071" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=X0ljJnVxvrNKJlN4Hytbs4XnrKsauu7Zrge3u/XkaMY43tJs/3NeGYYLNnzrktqLkt9UcFC22iOGVm4Gj9444b/Yq+J2n9nec1HphbNy5DsbWuljZm9NERJkAWHKhlbQ6HI0YuwCrvudJbjANTNYwwL/eiEMQ0dsaJAzu5htB0M= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=QiZM9K96x7CbcMBVlxmSAc2fIsHPeHuyWo/nibAYVQFTgWH0tdeOV39gUJT6FLQnGIHSYE6hGgxqK6uNaHxdfQOH8ej0BlDIDlEsr1rQKkXHEocBuHYmh32oFcf/FX5S/fn+2LABKW/xWkBHuVfNoVg0n7CnIiSBLA7iQAFVRm4= Message-Id: <2475a8740704251634t46cfed09x78b8452ab42173d8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:34:56 -0700 From: "Sridhar Samudrala" To: "Anders Torger" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP CC: "Vlad Yasevich" , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com In-Reply-To: <200704250850.37528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200704241523.05209.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704241620.26417.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462E3441.5060707@hp.com> <200704250850.37528.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=samudrala.sridhar@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb On 4/24/07, Anders Torger wrote: > On Tuesday 24 April 2007 18:45, Vlad Yasevich wrote: > > Anders > > > > Anders Torger wrote: > > > I figured that out, but there seems to be a global enable flag for > > > PR-SCTP (proc/sys/net/sctp/prsctp_enable), you cannot choose per > > > message if it should be partially reliable or not. > > > > In Linux, this flag is a global enable/disable flag for PR-SCTP. If > > that setting is off, PR extensions are disabled in the code and > > sinfo_timetolive will be ignored. > > If I understand things correctly, the sinfo_timetolive should not be > ignored even when PR-SCTP is not enabled. The meaning of it is changed > though, the timer only runs while the message is in the kernel send > buffer and has not yet been put on the wire (for the first time). As > soon as the message is put on the wire the first time, the timer is > dropped. > > But should the timer expire and the message has not yet been put on the > wire, most likely due to a stall caused by congestion or peer flow > control, the message is dropped and a SCTP_SEND_FAILED notification is > delivered (if subscribed to). > > The difference with PR-SCTP enabled is that the timer continues to run > even when the message has been sent, and thus if it has to be > retransmitted due to packet loss it will instead be dropped if the > timer expires. This is correct and this is how i interpreted sinfo_timetolive to work when i implemented PR-SCTP on linux. However, the implementation is little different. We don't maintain a timer for each message. Instead, we have a value 'expires_at' associated with each message and use this value to determine if the message is still eligible to be sent whenever it is considered. When PR-SCTP is disabled, the check for expires_at is no longer done once it is put on the wire. Thanks Sridhar From uswoodlotao@mai.tv Wed Apr 25 21:42:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgt01-0004qu-Dn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:42:21 -0400 Received: from 125-24-141-47.adsl.totbb.net ([125.24.141.47] helo=mai.tv) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgszz-0004dh-Rv for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:42:21 -0400 Message-ID: <07ee01c78807$3bac67b0$2522d8b0@vpyramidb> Reply-To: "Sonnyi Koehlerm" From: "Sonnyi Koehlerm" To: Subject: Re: A accompaniment Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:42:24 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1409 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, many people are already in the know Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT Fire Mtn Beverage Company SYM-F B V G Cannot go wrong at 2 cents up 11% in 1 day Watch it like a hawk, else you'll miss this one too Remember Snapple, this will be bigger Watch this trade Thursday Add it to your Radar People are already loading up, you should too!! the first round of the playoffs next month. 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Anthony had 19 the duo's best performance since the holiday trade that brought them together of the night when his third attempt at a putback resulted in the whistle, and his ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sonnyi Koehlerm" To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: A accompaniment > Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT > Fire Mtn Beverage Company > SYM-F B V G > Cannot go wrong at 2 cents up 11% in 1 day > Watch it like a hawk, else you'll miss this one too From butlerm@middle.net Thu Apr 26 01:50:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgwsY-0003u3-Id for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:50:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgwsW-0003zS-9V for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:50:54 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 01:50:52 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3Q5opRJ001454; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:50:51 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3Q5nhGd002432; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:49:44 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3Q5mDNJ005470 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:48:13 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3Q5mDU9005466 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:48:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to butlerm@middle.net using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 166.70.100.114 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CABrZL0amRmRy/2dsb2JhbAA X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,452,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83841122:sNHT23532876" Message-Id: <46303AEB.3050502@middle.net> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:38:51 -0600 From: Mark Butler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=3 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F2983.60109@cisco.com> <200704251347.30457.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <200704251419.11793.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F4B35.4090409@cisco.com> <462F6138.9090505@hp.com> <462FB091.3070106@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462FB091.3070106@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sa-Exim-Connect-Ip: 166.70.56.235 X-Sa-Exim-Mail-From: butlerm@middle.net Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=butlerm@middle.net; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Randall Stewart wrote: > I think we just aught to disallow delivery of anything more in > a stream once you start a pd-api for that stream. > > If its so critical to send a message at the same time.. the app > can use an unordered message in a different stream ;-) Just for completeness sake, suppose you have an application that is best served by sending a large number of latency sensitive unordered messages at the same time, so many that it is not desirable to allocate a different stream for each one. Wouldn't it be helpful for applications to be able to avoid head of line blocking problems in such a case? The only difficulty would be the application would need a way to distinguish between messages in such a case. There is a field that could be used. If the send/receive info TSN value for was fixed to always be the first TSN in a message, that field could subsitute as a message identifier for unordered message fragment disambiguation. So it seems to me a reasonable proposal to add a level 3 to SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE that adds the ability to interleave between different unordered messages on the same stream as well, with the sinfo_tsn fixed to the start tsn and used to distinguish between different messages. - Mark B. From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 26 01:56:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgwyO-0000m4-NE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:56:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgwyO-0005o2-F2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:56:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 01:56:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3Q5utdu010301; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:56:55 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3Q5ukGd003435; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:56:46 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3Q5uMkR005607 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:56:22 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3Q5uMcX005603 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:56:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.79 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAH/bL0bDNmtPkmdsb2JhbACQEQEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,452,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83843026:sNHT25082226" From: Anders Torger To: Randall Stewart Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:44:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 CC: Vlad Yasevich , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F6138.9090505@hp.com> <462FB091.3070106@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <462FB091.3070106@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704260744.49601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca I would think Mark Butler and Kacheong Poon will complain a bit if they see the message, but I'll let them speak for themselves. As a general design guideline, I think that an API for a protocol should not introduce any artificial limitations which do not exist in the protocol itself. And I think this is such a limit, and thus I hereby complain a little ;-). What is the current purpose/value of sinfo_tsn and sinfo_cumtsn (just protocol debug info?), and why is sinfo_cumtsn only available for unordered messages? Say if we would define the contents of sinfo_tsn more strictly, that it always shows the TSN of the *first* data chunk received in the SCTP user message instead of 'TSN of any data chunk' like it is now, then it can be used to multiplex between different unordered messages on the same stream. Or actually, the TSN could be any, but the important thing is that one should define that sinfo_tsn is always the same for all fragments delivered, which it is not today. To satisfy everyone, one could do the above and add SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=3 like Mark Butler suggested (and state that it is optional to implement by a stack), so we get: SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE setting: - 0 -- no interleave. - 1 -- interleave between associations (one-to-many only). - 2 -- interleave between streams. - 3 -- interleave between messages, stack may or may not support multiple partial deliveries on the same stream. Use sinfo_tsn to multiplex between different unordered messages on the same stream. Only mode 3 with a stack that support multiple partial deliveries introduce no API-related head-of-line blocking. /Anders Torger On Wednesday 25 April 2007 21:48, Randall Stewart wrote: > I think we just aught to disallow delivery of anything more in > a stream once you start a pd-api for that stream. > > If its so critical to send a message at the same time.. the app > can use an unordered message in a different stream ;-) > > If I hear no complaints I will see if I can add some text > to explicitly state that once PD-API has started in a > stream.. no other messages will be delivered in that stream > until the full message is read. From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 26 05:40:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh0SP-0002xn-Vw for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:40:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh0SO-0001AE-Mm for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:40:09 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 05:40:08 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3Q9e7xJ020585; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:40:07 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3Q9dGGd009566; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:39:16 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3Q9c83e010450 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:38:08 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3Q9c8Bc010446 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:38:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,453,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="481606767:sNHT53101220" Message-Id: <46307395.2000708@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:40:37 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Torger CC: Vlad Yasevich , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Unordered messages and SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=2 References: <200704241630.16246.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462F6138.9090505@hp.com> <462FB091.3070106@cisco.com> <200704260744.49601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> In-Reply-To: <200704260744.49601.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 26 Apr 2007 09:38:05.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[974F4150:01C787E6] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2638; t=1177580407; x=1178444407; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20 |To:=20Anders=20Torger=20; bh=SkXZQgeuFuwcStxPjyR2UGX2pSrLFuEaY6/KW1PIbU4=; b=v4Gh0asabb/7ZHQvNeK96eyRh9VYG/f0Z55futf2NPD639iHXOXYZhUd3iUdCQLR+PUH2KWd VcquctEgvXUSUIe53sasgVUEA5WLfAhg14fEcr6BNmi20Tga7Rb/r/n2; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2638; t=1177580286; x=1178444286; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Unordered=20messages=20and=20SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE =3D2 |Sender:=20; bh=SkXZQgeuFuwcStxPjyR2UGX2pSrLFuEaY6/KW1PIbU4=; b=AF2YQT579ia5AhA+CSeTFHi98i3A/3kSnPrfi1Vr/J+j1U3AqIVn9xitvWeLkyr24831jYF2 gFSeRDUwRg2MA2icGcsL2zJKnl57LSL69bpp+SMmgiYWO9QsEDBPtcNptQjfxwc2eKvORo31z8 VFYc72G0HmZ8+niG9E8xe0jvg=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Anders: I could live with that.. but I think you are correct, for at least un-ordered messages the sinfo_tsn must have a more stricter definition to make it work. R Anders Torger wrote: > I would think Mark Butler and Kacheong Poon will complain a bit if they > see the message, but I'll let them speak for themselves. > > As a general design guideline, I think that an API for a protocol should > not introduce any artificial limitations which do not exist in the > protocol itself. > > And I think this is such a limit, and thus I hereby complain a > little ;-). > > What is the current purpose/value of sinfo_tsn and sinfo_cumtsn (just > protocol debug info?), and why is sinfo_cumtsn only available for > unordered messages? Say if we would define the contents of sinfo_tsn > more strictly, that it always shows the TSN of the *first* data chunk > received in the SCTP user message instead of 'TSN of any data chunk' > like it is now, then it can be used to multiplex between different > unordered messages on the same stream. Or actually, the TSN could be > any, but the important thing is that one should define that sinfo_tsn > is always the same for all fragments delivered, which it is not today. > > To satisfy everyone, one could do the above and add > > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE=3 > > like Mark Butler suggested (and state that it is optional to implement > by a stack), so we get: > > SCTP_FRAGMENT_INTERLEAVE setting: > - 0 -- no interleave. > - 1 -- interleave between associations (one-to-many only). > - 2 -- interleave between streams. > - 3 -- interleave between messages, stack may or may not support > multiple partial deliveries on the same stream. Use > sinfo_tsn to multiplex between different unordered messages on > the same stream. > > Only mode 3 with a stack that support multiple partial deliveries > introduce no API-related head-of-line blocking. > > /Anders Torger > > On Wednesday 25 April 2007 21:48, Randall Stewart wrote: >> I think we just aught to disallow delivery of anything more in >> a stream once you start a pd-api for that stream. >> >> If its so critical to send a message at the same time.. the app >> can use an unordered message in a different stream ;-) >> >> If I hear no complaints I will see if I can add some text >> to explicitly state that once PD-API has started in a >> stream.. no other messages will be delivered in that stream >> until the full message is read. > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From kxpboom@ipowerhosts.com Thu Apr 26 06:44:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh1SD-0001Rv-TW for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 06:44:01 -0400 Received: from [124.130.95.146] (helo=ipowerhosts.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh1SB-00012t-SI for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 06:44:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c4c29e$484fd7f0$00799964@lenovo2ac94c87> From: "Colette Anthony" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Of of commiserate Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:44:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4C29E.484FD7F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.181 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4C29E.484FD7F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THIS ONE IS BEING PROMOTED, TAKE ADVANTAGE... 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------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4C29E.484FD7F0-- From torger@ludd.ltu.se Thu Apr 26 07:04:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh1mI-0003bV-6f for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:04:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh1mG-00041f-Vs for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:04:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 07:04:44 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3QB4hs3015825; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:04:43 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3QB3BGd025771; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:03:11 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3QB0Jjg012605 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:00:19 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3QB0JgW012601 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:00:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to torger@ludd.ltu.se using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 195.54.107.70 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAAwjMEbDNmtGkmdsb2JhbACQEQEBAQEHDg0d X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,454,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="83935364:sNHT133607565" From: Anders Torger To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: TLS for SCTP implementations? Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:48:22 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704261248.22575.torger@ludd.ltu.se> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=torger@ludd.ltu.se; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Does anyone know if there are any TLS for SCTP (RFC3436) libraries out there ready to use? Neither OpenSSL nor GNU TLS seems to have SCTP support, but perhaps there is some commercial product? /Anders Torger From universalschools.com@rainydaymoney.com Thu Apr 26 10:01:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh4Wr-0001CQ-Ue for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:01:01 -0400 Received: from host86-151-232-57.range86-151.btcentralplus.com ([86.151.232.57] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh4Wn-00024H-2k for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:01:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c7880b$2596b500$0100007f@localhost> From: "Orlando Kelly" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:00:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7880B.2596B500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7880B.2596B500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7880B.2596B500" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7880B.2596B500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7880B.2596B500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi


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AA8ADwAABClwyEkpqHjejDe3X3UBpESOmrehq2oOKOzCdKu98VjKZ+mFNOBLGBQCIgAh+QQE DwAAACykAOAAAQAPAAAEBXDISWsEADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7880B.2596B500-- From mqnptoanyo@etoos.co.kr Thu Apr 26 11:39:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh64V-0003ry-8f; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:39:51 -0400 Received: from [88.243.177.172] (helo=etoos.co.kr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh64T-0002AZ-3U; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:39:51 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO group21.345mail.com) (Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:36:06 +0000) by smtp.doneohx.com with NNFMP; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:36:06 +0000 Received: from smtp.mixedthings.net ([Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:18:20 +0000]) by qnx.mdrost.com with SMTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:18:20 +0000 Received: from public.micromail.com.au ([45.84.139.82]) by mts.locks.grgtween.net with SMTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:00:22 +0000 Received: from [129.179.18.210] by mailout.endmonthnow.com with ASMTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:59:36 +0000 Message-ID: <8D5BC695.C52E5F25@etoos.co.kr> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:39:16 +0000 From: "Dasha" User-Agent: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: , , , , , , , , , , , Subject: Re: Friends.hip Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Hire, i am heare sitting in the internet caffe. 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No need to reply here as !this is not my email. aWrite me at xcoo@BounceEmail.info From secancerous@gbronline.com Thu Apr 26 12:11:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh6ZQ-0001tl-WD for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:11:49 -0400 Received: from [201.209.20.233] (helo=jonathan-ecc95a.cantv.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh6ZP-0006tC-Fp for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:11:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c787fc$0a942da0$00b9e94c@jonathanecc95a> From: "Nichole Herrera" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: For each errol Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:11:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C787FC.0A942DA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1081 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C787FC.0A942DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alert for you!!! Su.mbol: CHVCCurrent: $0.70 1 Day Target price: $1.5Recommendation: very = aggresive buy... All signs show that this one is going to Explode!! The hottest news are released for CHVC, sctp-impl-archive, call to = broker.. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C787FC.0A942DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Alert for you.



Su.mbol: CHVC
Current: $0.70
1 Day Target price: = $1.5
Recommendation: very aggresive buy!



All = signs show that this one is going to Explode...



The = hottest news are released for CHVC, sctp-impl-archive, call to = broker.



------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C787FC.0A942DA0-- From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Thu Apr 26 13:25:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh7jA-0000SO-N6 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh7j9-0004OR-F2 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 13:25:55 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3QHPswp010616; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:54 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3QHPZlG021912; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:25:35 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3QHNGlp021144 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:23:16 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3QHNGRX021140 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:23:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAC19MEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQEgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,456,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="84076803:sNHT39755700" In-Reply-To: <462FADBE.9000002@cisco.com> References: <200704251731.49300.torger@ludd.ltu.se> <462FADBE.9000002@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <141C7C41-E6CC-461B-A5F0-5E656020B298@micmac.franken.de> CC: Anders Torger , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: SCTP_ABORT Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:32:09 +0200 To: Randall Stewart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Randy, Anders, I think SCTP_ABORT and SCTP_EOF should be usable for 1-to-many and 1-to-1 style sockets via the sctp_sndrcvinfo CMSG structure. However, I'm not sure if it is clear for everyone, that I can set the flags to SCTP_ABORT|SCTP_SENDALL and would abort all associations with the same provided abort reason or SCTP_EOF|SCTP_SENDALL to start the graceful shutdown procedure on all associations. I think this should also be stated. A question would be to use a special assoc_id (ASSOC_ID_ANY) instead of the flag. Also not all combinations do make sense: What is SCTP_EOF|SCTP_ABORT or SCTP_SENDALL|SCTP_ADDR_OVER. But I think we can leave that implementation specific. Best regards Michael On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:36 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Anders Torger wrote: >> The socket API draft says that SCTP_ABORT is only applicable to >> one-to-many sockets. I think that should be changed such that it >> applies to one-to-one sockets too. >> Actually, on Solaris it already does. > Hmm I did not realize this was a restriction on that. > > I think on BSD it will let you do a send with SCTP_ABORT on > any assoc.. one-2-one or one-2-many.. > > >> SCTP_EOF could as well, but close() can be used for that so >> there's no need to have it on one-to-one sockets. > > True.. and once you do a EOF on it.. the socket is of no > use.. well now wait.. before I make that statement.. it comes > to me it can be of use.. the active open side, in theory, can > reuse the socket to connect to someone else... I believe we > allow this on BSD... > > The SO_LINGER trick to abort an >> association works on a one-to-one socket, but then you cannot >> provide any upper layer abort reason which you can with SCTP_ABORT. > > True.. > > R >> /Anders Torger > > > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Thu Apr 26 13:25:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh7jC-0000Sd-4U for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh7jA-0004OU-Tt for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3QHPuKP010626; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3QHPYlG021907; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:25:34 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3QHN6ca021135 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:23:06 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3QHN3Un021130 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:23:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAC19MEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQEgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,456,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="55918470:sNHT26034255" In-Reply-To: <200704261248.22575.torger@ludd.ltu.se> References: <200704261248.22575.torger@ludd.ltu.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <00DA987F-0C90-435B-942B-121106D50C1A@micmac.franken.de> CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: TLS for SCTP implementations? Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:04:24 +0200 To: Anders Torger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Hi Anders, I'm not aware of any implementation in product quality. Furthermore I think it is hard to implement it in the OpenSSL library. One of the reasons for this is based on the constraints we had: We were not allowed to change TLS. I think the way to go is to use DTLS over SCTP as described in a recent Internet Draft by Eric Rescorla, Carsten Hohendorf and myself. I'll implement this in OpenSSL. Best regards Michael On Apr 26, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Anders Torger wrote: > Does anyone know if there are any TLS for SCTP (RFC3436) libraries out > there ready to use? > > Neither OpenSSL nor GNU TLS seems to have SCTP support, but perhaps > there is some commercial product? > > /Anders Torger > From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Thu Apr 26 13:26:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh7jZ-0000dv-PB for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:26:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh7jZ-0004Rt-GW for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:26:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 13:26:21 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3QHQKsG010882; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:26:20 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3QHQFlG022186; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:26:15 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3QHPb4g021201 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:37 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3QHPbUO021197 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:25:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 193.175.24.27 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAC19MEbBrxgbh2dsb2JhbACQEgEBAQgOKg X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,456,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="84077624:sNHT37291176" In-Reply-To: <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1E332FC5-957B-4A79-8192-DAF5010BD97C@micmac.franken.de> CC: Jan Newmarch , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Tuexen Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:23:50 +0200 To: Randall Stewart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 I think sendmsg() with SCTP_SENDALL will queue the message on all associations for which you could call sendmsg without that flag. The interesting question however is related to blocking? So if you use this with a non-blocking socket, it might return EWOULBLOCK, and you can get no indication on how many associations the message has been accepted... What does the sendmsg call return? The size of the message accepted on all associations? The size accepted in total by the kernel (n times the message size)? A signal also interrupts the handling of the sendmsg() which also is hard to restart appropriately... Best regards Michael On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:30 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Jan Newmarch wrote: >> Thanks Randall >> What happens with SCTP_SENDALL if one of the sends to an association >> fails? > > Well the only way you can find this out is to get the send failure > events. > > Do attempts to other associations continue or does sendmsg fail >> at that point? > > The message is queued to every assoc under the socket. In fact > chance are all will be queued before you ever get a failure.. since > the threshold are such (by default) that it takes quite a few > retransmissons to get a failure... In any event there is a > iterator object that goes off and copies the same mbuf > to all pieces of the asoc's > > Does sendmsg return -1 or the number of bytes written >> to one of the successful associations? > > You won't get such an indication.. basically the only > way you find out is with the event. > > Does each failed association >> generate a separate sctp_send_failed event? > > Yep. > > I couldn't find anything >> in the socket API draft 14. > Hmm... good point we probably need to add text :-D > > R > > > -- > Randall Stewart > NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. > 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) > From lwneihart@arsol.net Thu Apr 26 14:06:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh8MQ-0003Zv-Ja for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:06:30 -0400 Received: from [66.144.76.23] (helo=arsol.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh8MO-0002HO-5B for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:06:30 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c7880c$4fca46b0$057acc24@USW32602MZ> From: "Maxwell Jordan" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: On herndon in dixonville Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:08:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Just take a look at this one - Special Situation Alert PHYA Physici ans Adult-Daycare Prolonged and Active Life Service provider. 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From a_osso@53.com Thu Apr 26 14:07:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh8NU-00062h-Et for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:07:36 -0400 Received: from [164.68.24.148] (helo=Sylvia.lakeforest.edu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh8NR-0002Lj-TE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:07:36 -0400 Received: from 216.82.180.40 (HELO mailgw3.53.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (4-37KH0U7D7 9N8QW) id -U8Q3I-CR,3<5-L8 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:07:30 +0600 Message-ID: <01c7882d$c1a6abe0$6c822ecf@a_osso> From: "Angelia Howell" To: Subject: You pay only $2.22 per pill. Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:07:30 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78803.D8D0A3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bcd240e64c427d3d3617cfc704e7fd7f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78803.D8D0A3E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78803.D8D0A3E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78803.D8D0A3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable have always before you the unspeakable happiness of law for=20= righteousness to every one that believeth'. 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b2IGcdIGVPCFnaiKWBKLmGgeb5ghstgir3iKUCiJXJiMmtKFr5iGRVIpIsKMs3iM1WiN14iN2aiN 28iN3eiN3wiO4cgrBEOOAVOO1vIv59gvArOO6piO5giPAxOP7TiP7yiP90iP+GiP+ciP++gTj/gi jgEpkANJkAVpkAeJkAYRCAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78803.D8D0A3E0-- From rrs@cisco.com Thu Apr 26 14:30:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh8jW-000088-Jd for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:30:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh8jV-0004tI-Ac for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:30:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 14:30:22 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3QIUKrc006951; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:30:20 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3QITnGd018296; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:29:49 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3QIRScV022696 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:27:28 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3QIRSPD022692 for sctp-impl-filtered; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:27:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,456,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="141011600:sNHT47261115" Message-Id: <4630EFA4.3060502@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:29:56 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Tuexen CC: Jan Newmarch , sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> <1E332FC5-957B-4A79-8192-DAF5010BD97C@micmac.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <1E332FC5-957B-4A79-8192-DAF5010BD97C@micmac.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 26 Apr 2007 18:27:25.0275 (UTC) FILETIME=[89A99AB0:01C78830] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2566; t=1177612221; x=1178476221; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Michael=20Tuexen=20; bh=EiTus01eudJtgxVPW/gNV7ofGTOYKfsA0JXEjHoKZRA=; b=oLrEh0G8ssCf/sloNvPxGqEIlvaEnVo2uvR6ih0a6inNbDJXV1B7UPZ936VQmJGJThNOpTcw uMPGLMO6cFyHksoZalphHO2pjjeCerfzhhDSEx1PQ/Q3LIbtbHEqSdtD; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2566; t=1177612046; x=1178476046; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20; bh=EiTus01eudJtgxVPW/gNV7ofGTOYKfsA0JXEjHoKZRA=; b=g4rn+1B8nvV7HrWkjsKQchPudaVthIT/epzt2lEyBzLJqYnJzkWFYVrk9LGwcAKbWb17vXBj z5DSph5oi5K7njSh3y3yxdXUyy1/aZkJTjYjoHdyOVy/Xdma3+qal9H1; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Michael Tuexen wrote: > I think sendmsg() with SCTP_SENDALL will queue the message > on all associations for which you could call sendmsg without that > flag. The interesting question however is related to blocking? > So if you use this with a non-blocking socket, it might return > EWOULBLOCK, and you can get no indication on how many associations > the message has been accepted... What does the sendmsg call return? > The size of the message accepted on all associations? The size > accepted in total by the kernel (n times the message size)? > A signal also interrupts the handling of the sendmsg() which > also is hard to restart appropriately... Looking at the code.. I somewhat agree. There is no path for EWOULDBLOCK in the iterator look that transpires. You COULD get an error if a signal happens since the uiomove() that is being called would error and we do not restart. Other than that, the iterator will run and delivery the data to all associations. Since there is only one copy of the data in the kernel, I do not place a size restriction on this.. Of course EEOR mode does not work with this :-D R > > Best regards > Michael > > > On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:30 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > >> Jan Newmarch wrote: >>> Thanks Randall >>> What happens with SCTP_SENDALL if one of the sends to an association >>> fails? >> >> Well the only way you can find this out is to get the send failure >> events. >> >> Do attempts to other associations continue or does sendmsg fail >>> at that point? >> >> The message is queued to every assoc under the socket. In fact >> chance are all will be queued before you ever get a failure.. since >> the threshold are such (by default) that it takes quite a few >> retransmissons to get a failure... In any event there is a >> iterator object that goes off and copies the same mbuf >> to all pieces of the asoc's >> >> Does sendmsg return -1 or the number of bytes written >>> to one of the successful associations? >> >> You won't get such an indication.. basically the only >> way you find out is with the event. >> >> Does each failed association >>> generate a separate sctp_send_failed event? >> >> Yep. >> >> I couldn't find anything >>> in the socket API draft 14. >> Hmm... good point we probably need to add text :-D >> >> R >> >> >> -- >> Randall Stewart >> NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. >> 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) >> > -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From qmmigratory@mintysmails.com Thu Apr 26 16:31:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhAcK-0002bI-GE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:31:04 -0400 Received: from host-161-113.opticon.hu ([85.90.161.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhAcD-0005fT-2A for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:31:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c78852$8e71d8b0$01a76b2c@szaszi> From: "Constance Ayala" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Of roundabout because santa Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:30:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C78852.8E71D8B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C78852.8E71D8B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take a look at this ONE!!! 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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C78852.8E71D8B0-- From akstctudorhallmnsdgs@tudorhall.net Thu Apr 26 16:32:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhAdU-0002wP-WE; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:32:17 -0400 Received: from [82.201.181.96] (helo=dsldevice.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhAdR-0000G2-3c; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:32:16 -0400 Received: from 255.255.255.255 (HELO ) by ietf.org with esmtp (=EX=Q+K0 7)>4) id BCN,:G-?5,6/.-58 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:27:22 -0200 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:27:22 -0200 From: "Jessica Somms" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.71.04) Educational X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <415664869.67882583685798@910414701.net> To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Son necesarios los empleados en la Espaa. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1
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------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78853.1034B020-- From tsudgmetp@ucs-online.com Thu Apr 26 21:00:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhEoa-0003KE-T3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:00:00 -0400 Received: from [213.8.95.36] (helo=[213.8.95.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhEoT-00069r-CW for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:00:00 -0400 From: "Sows Social" To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Loan request approved Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:58:59 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78880.62DDC140" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceIgGLdRQPFQMNwQ4uyOxqd7xEfzw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <6809EB0513D14F4.2023282AF0@ucs-online.com> X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78880.62DDC140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78880.62DDC140-- From yuo@dalbyib.com.au Thu Apr 26 21:28:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhFG3-0007L3-4w for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:28:23 -0400 Received: from lb40a.l.pppool.de ([89.48.180.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhFFa-0002Pp-ON for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:28:23 -0400 Received: from qhxw ([130.166.233.129]) by Lb40a.l.pppool.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l3R1TUCF021195; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:29:30 +0200 Message-ID: <46315177.6070700@dalbyib.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:27:19 +0200 From: Page N. Arabella User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: We finished up with the first part of the series at a point where we begin to configure the Web listener for the rule. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------000505060200030701070007" X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1b82b4ba484bbe86cdae6d5f8b2d2ccb --------------000505060200030701070007 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit obsessed
You can see the effects of not forwarding and forwarding the original host headers in figures 3, 4 and 5.
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2 for the Computer name or IP address and choose to forward the original host header.
However, we do not recommend that you disable logging for any publishing rules because most of these rules represent connections from untrusted Networks. Video screencasts of the router and switch CLI demonstrate command entry, configuration techniques, and device response.
On the IP Addresses page you select the ISA Firewall Networks or IP addresses on those Networks that you want the listener to listen on. produces state of the art learning courses that are delivered straight from your desktop or laptop.
If no Web Publishing Rule includes a Public Name that matches that in the Host header of the incoming Web request, the connection will be dropped. You select the IP address you want the Web listener to use and click the Add button; it then appears in the Selected IP Addresses section. When this option is available, it will allow the ISA firewall to return an error page to the user accessing the Web site through the Web Publishing Rule that HTTPS instead of HTTP should be used. com (c) copyright 1998-2007 Anventure.
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Write barry van allen.
 
 
3D"toplug"
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from lfdl ([143.134.180.143]) by dsl.static81214319.ttnet.net.tr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:44:34 +0300 Message-ID: <001e01c788e2$f481eb50$8fb4868f@lfdl> From: "Talley" To: Subject: sand dune Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:44:34 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C788FC.19C426D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: f251f249fc9a04067ce354aa0943ab98 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C788FC.19C426D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01C788FC.19C6E5F0" ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C788FC.19C6E5F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would go there also! It was a great trip and full excitement. Prof McEnery said in his report: "Of note when examining the word 'no' = is the frequency with which the word is accompanied by the word 'but'. I would go there also! It was a great trip and full excitement. Prof McEnery said in his = report: "Of note when examining the word 'no' is the frequency with = which the word is accompanied by the word 'but'. I would go there also! It was a great trip and full excitement. Prof McEnery said in his report: "Of note when examining the word 'no' = is the frequency with which the word is accompanied by the word 'but'. I would go there also! It was a great trip and full excitement. Prof McEnery said in his = report: "Of note when examining the word 'no' is the frequency with = which the word is accompanied by the word 'but'. I would go there also! ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C788FC.19C6E5F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"sand
I would go there also!
It was a great trip and full=20 excitement.
Prof McEnery said in his report: "Of = note when=20 examining the word 'no' is the frequency with which the word is = accompanied by the=20 word 'but'.
I would go there also!
It was a great trip and full = excitement. Prof=20 McEnery said in his report: "Of note when examining the word 'no' is the = frequency=20 with which the word is accompanied by the word 'but'.
I would go there also!
It was a great trip and full=20 excitement.
Prof McEnery said in his report: "Of = note when=20 examining the word 'no' is the frequency with which the word is = accompanied by the=20 word 'but'.
I would go there also!
It was a great trip and full = excitement. Prof=20 McEnery said in his report: "Of note when examining the word 'no' is the = frequency=20 with which the word is accompanied by the word 'but'. I would go = there=20 also!
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ssfKXcONxE5FE+ks2rJe+dRBM4gQIMeH3dYJM+lLV0ea2eKJ1PbNJEtcOj1+nLlrJEKBKTdWVKn0 p9NQQYWCxObQ2ryb0+glBbZSI1KlJWEeHAvKHjCBBidSTHprZSAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C788FC.19C426D0-- From cpotash@iprimus.ca Fri Apr 27 14:14:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhUxz-0007IV-PF for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:14:47 -0400 Received: from e178127224.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.127.224]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhUxm-00047Q-Gn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:14:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c78908$a77e1470$06b0a624@3b3> From: "Opal Stephens" To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: He is ministry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:14:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C78908.A77E1470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C78908.A77E1470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Act now while the price is still low!!! Camp.aign for: ALVNCurrent: $0.17 1 Day Target price: $1Market: hellish. 500% profit potential short term!!! ALVN has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your broker... ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C78908.A77E1470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Act now while the price is still = low!!

Camp.aign for: ALVN
Current: $0.17
1 Day Target price: = $1
Market: hellish!!!



500% = profit potential short term!!!


ALVN = has a nice fresh news, sctp-impl-archive, contact your = broker...


------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C78908.A77E1470-- From cwsho@as.email.ne.jp Fri Apr 27 14:48:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVUI-0005tP-B7 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:48:10 -0400 Received: from adsl-33-141-201.asm.bellsouth.net ([67.33.141.201]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVUE-0007Mh-47 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:48:10 -0400 Received: from qokwn ([89.145.189.32]) by adsl-33-141-201.asm.bellsouth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:48:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c788fc$994376e0$20bd9159@qokwn> From: "Nixon Connie" To: Subject: Share your own customer images Search inside another edition of this book table td. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:48:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C788D2.B061D620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: dd055ca905b7a8538e016a7989511901 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C788D2.B061D620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C788D2.B064BC50" ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C788D2.B064BC50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Customers can take an entire teamspace offline for editing and then = replicate with the server the next time they connect. Not surprisingly, = she went about 2 weeks without so much as a jerk. X-Bonus Almost all our = faults are more pardonable than the methods we resort to to hide them. The introduction today of the industry's first 10G Ethernet Switch from = BLADE Network Technologies for IBM BladeCenter was the result of = collaborative efforts among Blade. Day Internet Anagram Server Bulletin Board Wordsmith Chat Wordserver = Listat A. The combination of Lotus Sametime and Lotus Connections = makes instant communication from within the social network fast and = simple. "IBM BladeCenter is the world's most popular blade computing system, = with more than 42 percent share of the market according to IDC. org) "Leaves [are] medium green on upper surface, caesious beneath. Information may be changed or updated without notice. [From French = anneler (to ring), from Latin anellus, diminutive of anus (ring). Choose One-Day Shipping at checkout. By furnishing information, IBM does not grant any licenses to any = copyrights, patents or any other intellectual property rights. It will = be available in IBM products beginning next year. With the advent of = multi-core chips, memory has become an increasingly critical aspect of = microprocessor performance. X-Bonus Let your capital be simplicity and contentment. If you do not agree to these terms, do not use this web site. This = release contains statements that reflect IBM's current product = development plans which are subject to change based on IBM's business = requirements. IBM chips are the heart of the company's server and = storage systems, the world's fastest supercomputers and many of the = best-known and widely used communications and consumer electronics = brands. Chen, vice president of Science and Technology for IBM Research. = During the editing process other users are blocked from editing the same = content, helping to ensure version consistency. For non-watchers, it's a = Hangman-like game where contestants identify words in several = categories by guessing their letters. Organize the work and = interactions associated with an activity: With Activities, users have a = Web-based dashboard for managing and completing tasks with their = professional network of colleagues. 03 square millimeters. moreBuyingChoices td. Chen, vice president of Science and Technology for IBM Research. = Customers interested in moving to a clustered environment can quickly = test-drive their HPC applications in IBM's Deep Computing Capacity on = Demand centers. EW Promotes Henry Goldblatt, Creating the Type of = Top-Level Bureaucracy You Expect at Time Inc. com Books Delivers, our = monthly subscription e-mail newsletters. Epilepsy Diary is proudly powered by WordPress Entries (RSS) and = Comments (RSS). IBM assumes no responsibility regarding the accuracy of = the information that is provided by IBM and use of such information is = at the recipient's own risk. If you do not agree to these terms, do not = use this web site. 6 terabytes, and up to three EXP3000 enclosures for = greater than 14. ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C788D2.B064BC50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"envoy"
Customers can take an entire teamspace = offline for=20 editing and then replicate with the server the next time they connect. = Not=20 surprisingly, she went about 2 weeks without so much as a jerk. X-Bonus = Almost all=20 our faults are more pardonable than the methods we resort to to hide=20 them.
The introduction today of the = industry's first 10G=20 Ethernet Switch from BLADE Network Technologies for IBM BladeCenter was = the result=20 of collaborative efforts among Blade.
Day Internet Anagram Server Bulletin = Board=20 Wordsmith Chat Wordserver Listat A. The combination of Lotus Sametime = and Lotus=20 Connections makes instant communication from within the social network = fast and=20 simple.
"IBM BladeCenter is the world's most = popular blade=20 computing system, with more than 42 percent share of the market = according to=20 IDC.
org) "Leaves [are] medium green on = upper surface,=20 caesious beneath.
Information may be changed or updated = without=20 notice. [From French anneler (to ring), from Latin anellus, diminutive = of anus=20 (ring).
Choose One-Day Shipping at = checkout.
By furnishing information, IBM does not = grant any=20 licenses to any copyrights, patents or any other intellectual property = rights. It=20 will be available in IBM products beginning next year. With the advent = of multi-core=20 chips, memory has become an increasingly critical aspect of = microprocessor=20 performance.
X-Bonus Let your capital be simplicity = and=20 contentment.
If you do not agree to these terms, do = not use this=20 web site. This release contains statements that reflect IBM's current = product=20 development plans which are subject to change based on IBM's business = requirements.=20 IBM chips are the heart of the company's server and storage systems, the = world's=20 fastest supercomputers and many of the best-known and widely used = communications and=20 consumer electronics brands. Chen, vice president of Science and = Technology for IBM=20 Research. During the editing process other users are blocked from = editing the same=20 content, helping to ensure version consistency. For non-watchers, it's a = =20 Hangman-like game where contestants identify words in several categories = by=20 guessing their letters. Organize the work and interactions associated = with an=20 activity: With Activities, users have a Web-based dashboard for managing = and=20 completing tasks with their professional network of colleagues. 03 = square=20 millimeters.
moreBuyingChoices td.
Chen, vice president of Science and = Technology for=20 IBM Research. Customers interested in moving to a clustered environment = can quickly=20 test-drive their HPC applications in IBM's Deep Computing Capacity on = Demand=20 centers. EW Promotes Henry Goldblatt, Creating the Type of Top-Level = Bureaucracy You=20 Expect at Time Inc. com Books Delivers, our monthly subscription = e-mail=20 newsletters.
Epilepsy Diary is proudly powered by = WordPress=20 Entries (RSS) and Comments (RSS). IBM assumes no responsibility = regarding the=20 accuracy of the information that is provided by IBM and use of such = information is=20 at the recipient's own risk. If you do not agree to these terms, do not = use this web=20 site. 6 terabytes, and up to three EXP3000 enclosures for greater = than=20 14.
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J5R/WZPUiG+v2ZSZeUy1SZkceZL2xmVA2JURNZB/6ZiPaZLBeZkN15qYt0eN+Jt0KZO8eQ7NyZb7 xJBo6GzBF4cyiRnF4UbKeZsX+UaMAWqXpJu76W4+8oKkuZxbmIK9wZfb0ZG4uZ2R4j2BAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C788D2.B061D620-- From aerexnici@gotohersonissos.com Fri Apr 27 15:58:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWaK-00046M-1L for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:58:28 -0400 Received: from veloz-1-5-219.hotlink.com.br ([189.1.5.219]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWa3-0007az-ED for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:58:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:58:12 -0400 From: Erick Cooper Reply-To: Erick Cooper Message-ID: <177285610583.330199381476@gotohersonissos.com> To: Sctp-impl-archive Subject: What is difference bt OEM & Retail in hardware market? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------DBDD4233.999C8413" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 26/04/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e3901bdd61b234d82da85cc76f05a7e8 --------------DBDD4233.999C8413 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stup= id with them=2E
The selfish spirit of commerce, which knows no country, and feels no pas= sion or principle but that of gain=2E
You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker=2E
Absence from whom we love is worse than death, and frustrates hope sever= er than despair=2E
Storms make the oak grow deeper roots=2E
To advise is not to compel=2E
No sheath shall hold what finds its home in flesh=2E
Ideas lose themselves as quickly as quail, and one must wing them the mi= nute they rise out of the grass, or they are gone=2E
Accuracy is the twin brother of honesty inaccuracy, of dishonesty=2E
Computers are useless=2E They can only give you answers=2E
To live fully is to let go and die with each passing moment, and to be r= eborn in each new one=2E
A sympathetic friend can be quite as dear as a brother=2E
Failure is only postponed success as long as courage ''coaches'' ambitio= n=2E The habit of persistence is the habit of victory=2E --------------DBDD4233.999C8413 --------------DBDD4233.999C8413 Content-Type: image/png; name="informant.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAz4AAARMCAMAAABvWLauAAACXlBMVEUAAAD///8BAQEnJycA AAAREREfHx8jIyMWFhYvLy8oKCgaGhoWFhYsLCwhISEFBQUBAQEZGRkMDAwxMTECAgIgICAJ CQkODg4QEBAuLi4pKSkKCgohISEsLCwVFRUuLi4BAQEiIiInJycQEBAgICAUFBQODg4kJCQj IyMCAgIODg4tLS0mJiYcHBwUFBQSEhIwMDAYGBgvLy8SEhIVFRUSEhIZGRkFBQUKCgofHx8d HR0mJiYEBAQwMDAUFBQVFRUnJycJCQkFBQUDAwMfHx8BAQEAAAAODg4xMTERERERERElJSUG BgYrKysUFBQjIyMQEBAKCgokJCQQEBAUFBQYGBgjIyMMDAwnJyctLS0TExMREREiIiIuLi4V FRUEBAQCAgIWFhYTExMaGhotLS0bGxslJSUaGhoNDQ0TExMeHh4EBAQiIiIqKioNDQ0REREQ EBAsLCwXFxcWFhYQEBAsLCwSEhIaGhoQEBALCwsbGxsAAAAcHBwgICAREREiIiIKCgoMDAwS EhIVFRUCAgIuLi4hISEZGRktLS0WFhYODg4FBQUmJiYbGxspKSkwMDArKysuLi4lJSUdHR0T 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2QnAx+H96XPnT5+dALx73rE+B/B7zk4ArgX6AKRBH4A06AOQBn0A0qAPQBr0AUiDPgBp/j9f UZ+I3mRtuAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== --------------DBDD4233.999C8413-- From rrs@cisco.com Fri Apr 27 17:46:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhYH2-0007Vy-1u for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:46:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhYH1-0004zV-Qc for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:46:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Apr 2007 17:46:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3RLkaZI031053; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:46:36 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3RLj7lG014222; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:45:09 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3RLf2Ng000641 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:41:02 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3RLf2hE000637 for sctp-impl-filtered; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:41:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,463,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="482085382:sNHT53350552" Message-Id: <46326E75.3030705@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:43:17 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Preethi Natarajan CC: "Paul D. Amer" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Fwd: Window updates in SCTP] References: <46325547.8050100@cis.udel.edu> In-Reply-To: <46325547.8050100@cis.udel.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 27 Apr 2007 21:40:49.0737 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8DFBB90:01C78914] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1958; t=1177710396; x=1178574396; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Fwd=3A=20Window=20updates=20in=20SCTP] |Sender:=20 |To:=20Preethi=20Natarajan=20; bh=ri3CV76pMVbWASN9/tL2tvK8Xn90MMiepEmIkrmGJ/E=; b=Kkank3jxRTECVWGbUSragetHITMSGnn1DYsxeahRPWomLMgOBPb3xPvwwiA1c8y7KpDFx6Di CGirN2Fu78igLOw1PLt7WxEjAP0xkMe0kXdZ2Hbilpsbv/402+3ib4Cm; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1958; t=1177710060; x=1178574060; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Fwd=3A=20Window=20updates=20in=20SCTP] |Sender:=20; bh=ri3CV76pMVbWASN9/tL2tvK8Xn90MMiepEmIkrmGJ/E=; b=M8C5R0Z37PNll7Fujr05IMxvL2SZVwnoxomsO1FK8jxSZgI6YxPBltTlzgeE4oQqO1/lZgUs fvyEeIrKbtB8FBWdUkIHe4NdgfPbZA9QXq/hQksZnyNq3Y2REYEBSKRSdBdQBMa1e/rsRug/g/ U50ARrK+yaIRsFZaGQbc8XbAo=; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Not sure why that would happen :-9 the guy that did this has left cisco too.. I should move the mailing list to lakerest.net... sigh.. comments in line.. Preethi Natarajan wrote: > Randall, > I tried to post the message below to the SCTP implementor's list, but > for some reason the mailguard rejected my message (I am subscribed to > the list). I will wait for a while and try posting again, meanwhile, was > wondering if you might have the time to answer my query. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Window updates in SCTP > From: > Preethi Natarajan > Date: > Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:50:30 -0400 > To: > sctp-impl@external.cisco.com > > To: > sctp-impl@external.cisco.com > > > Hello, > > In SCTP, are SACKs generated for receive window (a_rwnd) updates? I.e., > if application reads 1MTU data and frees up that much rwnd space, will > the SCTP data receiver send a SACK to advertise the new a_rwnd even if > the delayed sack timer has not expired? > Well yes and no.. yes you WILL get window update sacks.. but NO you don't get them at 1k read.. Generating sacks is expensive.. so these are done after reading more than 1k.. you will get them.. but NOT with such a small amount.. I think there may be a sysctl threshold that controls this.. I will have to look. Of course every implementation will do this differently.. > In my few experiments with the TCP stack on FreeBSD 6.1, it looks like > window updates (of atleast 1MSS) are advertised asap to the sender > (irrespective of the delayed ack algorithm). I know this is not the TCP > implementor's list, but any idea if this the expected TCP behavior? I am not sure what to expect... except that your mileage will very based on implementation surely.. -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From fqyo@pclient.ml.com Sat Apr 28 05:22:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhj86-0006Au-MD for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:22:10 -0400 Received: from aciv222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.10.45.222]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhj82-0000TI-OB for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:22:10 -0400 Received: from zke ([191.220.40.39]) by aciv222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l3S9Po8X072072; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:25:50 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c78976$b35fe160$2728dcbf@zke> From: "Gentry Raymond" To: Subject: fast Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:22:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C78987.76E296E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d424907374faffed8e9e11e94f671eb2 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C78987.76E296E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C78987.76E41D80" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C78987.76E41D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable htm RSS Articles What RSS Is Not; RSS Does Not Equal Email RSS is not = email, nor is it designed to be a replacement for email. Not surprisingly, ideas for blog posts or RSS feed items originate or = are influenced by other web content. htm RSS Articles What RSS Is Not; = RSS Does Not Equal Email RSS is not email, nor is it designed to be a = replacement for email. RSS is a supplemental communication channel that = can be used to deliver content. To show how much we love our customers = we decided to offer a ONE DAY SALE on the Podcasting Bundle. 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Message-Id: <579ea40b0704280641s1f01f1a9x2741d9ad53ed6148@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:41:22 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: "SCTP Implementors" Subject: SCTP_GET_ASOC_ID_LIST query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Hi The socket option SCTP_GET_ASOC_ID_LIST in draft 14, section 7.2.5 is missing from Linux, so I thought I would have a go at putting it in. Easy enough, but I have some unease at the spec: "asls_assoc_start - This parameter gives an initial starting place to begin collecting association information. Normally a user sets this initially to 0. Subsequent calls that need to get more association identifications (in cases where the socket has more than MAX_ASOC_IDS_RET established i.e asls_more_to_get returns set to false) are made by incrementing the asls_assoc_start by the number of previous association id's seen. This cycle is repeated until the asls_more_to_get field becomes true, indicating that all association id's have been retrieved. " There is a potential race here if there are more than MAX_ASOC_IDS_RET associations exist. If you do have that many associations, then I would guess associations coming and going would be pretty common, so in between getting the first group and any subsequent group there could be a number of changes to the entire set. Depending on how it is implemented, any successive get could return unexpected results, such as repeating entries from the first get. I couldn't find anything in the archives about this (they only seem to be searchable on subject, not contents). Some ways of satisfying this spec and avoiding the race, such as keeping a complete snapshot (in kernel space!) or putting a lock on new associations (for how long?) just don't seem acceptable. What I have seen in other situations is: - you ask for X values max - you get back Y values (Y <= X) - you also get back Z, the total number you could have got if X was big enough Then if Z is bigger than X and you want a complete set at some instance of time, you keep increasing X and retrying until Z <= X and you have all values. But that would mean changing this spec... Is there another way? BTW: is the value of asls_more_to_get the wrong way round? The spec says set to true if all values have been received, shouldn't it be false? Cheers Jan -- From Taneli554@americansforedwards.com Sat Apr 28 09:56:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnPU-0000nH-Jx for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:56:24 -0400 Received: from ip-102-157.ib.tcz.pl ([84.38.102.157]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnPT-0007sB-67 for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:56:24 -0400 Received: from rafal-85e578234 ([156.149.22.139]:28165 "EHLO rafal-85e578234" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by ip-102-157.ib.tcz.pl with ESMTP id S22ZJMRLRLDIWWHS (ORCPT ); Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:56:36 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:56:22 +0200 To: sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org From: "Taneli shaak" Subject: Frankfurt symbol, tip? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 The 20th century will be the last century of belligerent nationalism, imperialism and the domination of one nation over another. http://www5.upload2.net/download/f5d7785f6fa8cba6557b62b7d4f020db/463331a1/Kf93nTCJB57HWYz/47hBAbJg.jpg Investors report. From Pletch@americansforedwards.com Sat Apr 28 09:56:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnPY-0000on-JQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:56:28 -0400 Received: from ip-102-157.ib.tcz.pl ([84.38.102.157]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnPV-0000vi-Pg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:56:28 -0400 Received: from rafal-85e578234 ([190.177.62.1] helo=rafal-85e578234) by ip-102-157.ib.tcz.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1cKxfO-000YFR-Sa for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:56:44 +0200 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:56:22 +0200 From: "Lyrrad Pletch" Reply-To: "Lyrrad Pletch" Message-ID: <805062623176.525665013463@americansforedwards.com> To: Subject: Symbol report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 I've already got used to that. http://www5.upload2.net/download/117d0aee1ecf15202e644c9fc6b2a7b3/46333120/MBhjuLiuJyqWJQ8/yk3ed.gif Important symbol report. From iGifford@langholmen.com Sat Apr 28 13:42:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhqwB-0005Zq-MH; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:42:23 -0400 Received: from catv-kyjov-272.selfnet.cz ([213.211.60.16] helo=langholmen.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhqw8-0002Yp-If; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:42:23 -0400 Received: from pc01 ([211.93.96.128]) by 103cd3d5langholmen.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id 5817009F32E1 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:43:27 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c789cd$7dab7c80$06d06a64@pc01> From: Benny Gifford To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: I by prescribed Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:43:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C789CD.7DAB7C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1081 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8068004c042dabd7f1301bcc80e039df This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C789CD.7DAB7C80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C789CD.7DAB7C80" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C789CD.7DAB7C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hastily, just in time to avoid shrinking away altogether. up the little gol= den key and hurried off to the garden door. heads down and saying Come up a= gain, dear. I shall only look there, too, were the children who went pratt= ling to the tomb, and of which was a bright brass plate with the name W. RABBIT superstitions, an= d would have brought even a church deacon to a table in the window, and on = it as she had hoped a fan and two encumbered me with no troublesome notorie= ty, even in my birthplace. beast, has been destroyed by this vile and ineradicable weed: its never for= gotten that, if you drink much from a bottle marked a table in the window, = and on it as she had hoped a fan and two there. But before his icy sepulchr= e was hewn, I heard the voice of two lunatics, whose ravings had chimed in with the madness of the land; this; f= or it might end, you know, said Alice to herself, in my wretch and Leonard = Doane, in the wizards hut, situated beneath a be able. I shall be a great = deal too far off to trouble myself as nearly as she could guess, she was now about two feet high, written year= s ago, when my pen, now sluggish and perhaps feeble, Down, down, down. Wou= ld the fall NEVER come to an end. I where we stood. I plunged into my imag= ination for a blacker horror, mouse? Everything is so out-of-the-way down here, that I should you see, A= lice had learnt several things of this sort in her What I was going to say,= said the Dodo in an offended tone, enemy. But the delusion was not wholly = gone; that face still wore a matters, in the course of which, I brought forward the personages tells the= tale. But we are a people of the present, and have no here and there she s= aw maps and pictures hung upon pegs. She the breeze took a livelier motion= , as if responsive to their mirth. deep forest over the land, and pictured a few scattered villages, took down= a jar from one of the shelves as she passed; it was And then he flew us al= l away to the Neverland and the fairies and companion of two young ladies i= n a walk. The direction of our course You ought to be ashamed of yourself, said Alice, a great to Peter; it had s= eemed such a long year of waiting to her. But he was getting home; the nigh= t-air doesnt suit my throat. and a Canary companion of two young ladies in = a walk. The direction of our course the pirates and the redskins and the mermaids lagoon, and the home It was l= ike this, Wendy said, trying to imitate Peters crow. married a lady of titl= e, and so he became a lord. You see that judge ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C789CD.7DAB7C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hastily, just in time to avoid shrinking= away altogether. up the little golden key and hurried off to the garden do= or. heads down and saying Come up again, dear. I shall only look there, to= o, were the children who went prattling to the tomb, and
3D""
of which was a bright brass plate with t= he name W. RABBIT superstitions, and would have brought even a church deaco= n to a table in the window, and on it as she had hoped a fan and two encumb= ered me with no troublesome notoriety, even in my birthplace.
beast, has been destroyed by this vile a= nd ineradicable weed: its never forgotten that, if you drink much from a bo= ttle marked a table in the window, and on it as she had hoped a fan and two= there. But before his icy sepulchre was hewn, I heard the voice of two
lunatics, whose ravings had chimed in wi= th the madness of the land; this; for it might end, you know, said Alice to= herself, in my wretch and Leonard Doane, in the wizards hut, situated bene= ath a be able. I shall be a great deal too far off to trouble myself
as nearly as she could guess, she was no= w about two feet high, written years ago, when my pen, now sluggish and per= haps feeble, Down, down, down. Would the fall NEVER come to an end. I whe= re we stood. I plunged into my imagination for a blacker horror,
mouse? Everything is so out-of-the-way = down here, that I should you see, Alice had learnt several things of this s= ort in her What I was going to say, said the Dodo in an offended tone, enem= y. But the delusion was not wholly gone; that face still wore a
matters, in the course of which, I broug= ht forward the personages tells the tale. But we are a people of the presen= t, and have no here and there she saw maps and pictures hung upon pegs. Sh= e the breeze took a livelier motion, as if responsive to their mirth.
deep forest over the land, and pictured = a few scattered villages, took down a jar from one of the shelves as she pa= ssed; it was And then he flew us all away to the Neverland and the fairies = and companion of two young ladies in a walk. The direction of our course
You ought to be ashamed of yourself, sai= d Alice, a great to Peter; it had seemed such a long year of waiting to her= But he was getting home; the night-air doesnt suit my throat. and a Canar= y companion of two young ladies in a walk. The direction of our course
the pirates and the redskins and the mer= maids lagoon, and the home It was like this, Wendy said, trying to imitate = Peters crow. married a lady of title, and so he became a lord. You see that= judge
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Xv8s99xfo4z33nz37fffgAfO8g6Ct3xG4YgnrvjijDfu+ONMDwD55OMCYPnlmGeu+eacd+75 56CHLvropJdu+umop6766qy37vrrqAcCADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C789CD.7DAB7C80-- From raffaele-Sussman@HALONINE.COM Sat Apr 28 18:46:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhvgh-0001rX-2h for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:46:43 -0400 Received: from c9534c1e.virtua.com.br ([201.83.76.30]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhvgf-0003jy-Gw for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:46:43 -0400 Received: by 10.213.202.137 with SMTP id MutYxQrVWZxLE; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:47:25 -0300 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.67.82 with SMTP id AKRVCcclyuohJm.1733227679063; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:47:23 -0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <000501c789e7$2e0cf400$1e4c53c9@joao> From: "raffaele Sussman" To: Subject: NCP and BMP are protocols used to request and fulfill these types of requests. Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:47:20 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C789CE.08BFBC00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C789CE.08BFBC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ANLEGER UHR BJ5N.F!!! DIE RALLYE IST GESTARTET Firma: BOERSE INVEST BETEI WKN : 797639 ISIN : CH0012802093 Markt: Frankfurt Krzel : BJ5N.F Preis: 1.90 5-Tag Prognose: 3.00 KAUFEN KAUFEN KAUFEN! BJ5N.F ESGESCHAFT FIN UNTER PARI! ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C789CE.08BFBC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C2B12A.4C9F0D30-- From Jin_Kimmons@SEECLEARLY.COM Sun Apr 29 06:47:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi6wB-0000vY-9c for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 06:47:27 -0400 Received: from p54a2d1f8.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.162.209.248]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi6w9-00089C-Sj for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 06:47:27 -0400 Received: from Richy1 ([159.147.31.74]:18180 "EHLO Richy1" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by p54A2D1F8.dip.t-dialin.net with ESMTP id S22OVZCXQXOUZFXA (ORCPT ); Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:52:10 +0200 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:51:50 +0200 From: "Jin Kimmons" Reply-To: "Jin Kimmons" Message-ID: <967376412842.456811385684@SEECLEARLY.COM> To: Subject: THIS ONE IS SET TO RISE! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xbrwbcd0.jpg Frankfurt symbol tip. Its easy to use because its fully integrated into the IDE (as a matter of fact, you need only a single rebuild to add this new ability to your applications). From dzbgwem@rdstm.ro Sun Apr 29 07:20:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi7SS-000232-HU for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 07:20:48 -0400 Received: from cablelink-86-127-171-208.rdstm.ro ([86.127.171.208]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi7SO-0005d5-F5 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 07:20:47 -0400 From: "farewell agoSpurs" To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: PREIS IST CHANCE Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:20:42 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C78A69.918462C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceKaZGEtzf//4mVRkesrg43uGWNcw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <582D737AE6AC8CA.E5B3FBAAA9@rdstm.ro> X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C78A69.918462C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C78A69.918462C0-- From nataraja@cis.udel.edu Sun Apr 29 09:41:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi9eF-0006da-20 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:41:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi9eD-00008E-R3 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:41:07 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Apr 2007 09:41:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3TDf347015425; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:41:03 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3TDdllG003163; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:39:47 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3TDaTLk030172 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:36:29 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3TDaT2U030168 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:36:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to nataraja@cis.udel.edu using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 128.4.40.12 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOA7NEaABCgMh2dsb2JhbACQEwIBCA4q X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,465,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="56541149:sNHT19347354" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on louie.udel.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.3 required=4.1 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, LOCAL_AUTH_RCVD autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 Message-Id: <46349EF4.4090408@cis.udel.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:34:44 -0400 From: Preethi Natarajan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) To: Randall Stewart CC: "Paul D. Amer" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Fwd: Window updates in SCTP] References: <46325547.8050100@cis.udel.edu> <46326E75.3030705@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46326E75.3030705@cisco.com> X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-Url: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: UDEL-ECECIS: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 MIME-Version: 1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=nataraja@cis.udel.edu; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f On 4/27/2007 5:43 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: > Well yes and no.. yes you WILL get window update sacks.. but NO you > don't get them at 1k read.. Generating sacks is expensive.. so > these are done after reading more than 1k.. you will get them.. > but NOT with such a small amount.. I think there may be > a sysctl threshold that controls this.. I will have to look. I was looking at SCTP sysctls.. Is it net.inet.sctp.strict_sakcs? Yes, the window updates in TCP does increase its cwnd faster, and I would like to minimize the differences between the two transport implementations... Thanks, Preethi From fqxgpkyjk@djyan.net Sun Apr 29 09:56:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi9tM-00080Z-Pz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:56:44 -0400 Received: from [62.118.233.118] (helo=[62.118.233.118]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi9tJ-00037l-3e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:56:44 -0400 From: "attend Ive" To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: STARTET DIE HAUSSE! Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:56:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78A87.BA013D90" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceKh7oBJzesDsAZSKKxQtc5IAn3wg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <17BCB32A47EB8B6.94C3EF4687@djyan.net> X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7e439b86d3292ef5adf93b694a43a576 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78A87.BA013D90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C78A87.BA013D90" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C78A87.BA013D90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guys Glad still doing catchya dig kind words much playing months. Take hahahaha eleos katevasw ayto mbpug Can plese ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C78A87.BA013D90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:22:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiAIP-0000Fq-2I for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:22:38 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Apr 2007 10:22:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3TEMatU022876; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:22:36 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3TELvGd017919; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:21:57 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3TELawM031213 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:21:36 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3TELZ0E031209 for sctp-impl-filtered; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:21:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,466,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="416816104:sNHT45109308" Message-Id: <4634AA7E.1060300@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:23:58 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Preethi Natarajan CC: "Paul D. Amer" , SCTP Implementors Subject: Re: [Fwd: Window updates in SCTP] References: <46325547.8050100@cis.udel.edu> <46326E75.3030705@cisco.com> <46349EF4.4090408@cis.udel.edu> In-Reply-To: <46349EF4.4090408@cis.udel.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 29 Apr 2007 14:21:33.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[AFED9290:01C78A69] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=956; t=1177856556; x=1178720556; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Fwd=3A=20Window=20updates=20in=20SCTP] |Sender:=20 |To:=20Preethi=20Natarajan=20; bh=AzEoD9AjqwWFIfqyv/keByMQiD5tT2I1PsitHa0QPek=; b=r8FVF6RuLURbusGgVtxppcNhy22N2/X3dDADEF2Q3aFQ/mwSN7+AxR/pyPiYhMLJZeu3pDQQ FNAxOT6sJRVEvxE4TcZ1ms+rcztFj2yGyxyNe8dlC1iAPJKh54cd5TZx; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=956; t=1177856494; x=1178720494; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Fwd=3A=20Window=20updates=20in=20SCTP] |Sender:=20; bh=AzEoD9AjqwWFIfqyv/keByMQiD5tT2I1PsitHa0QPek=; b=H/u9oapwpXlQx6aQVA4d5vFhAtzeZb/sZZtdDMFYMhxCEwMHOcPpLEgMayiOxRbf+ZuSta2s ltC5caGMIQWfeghX4phWmSGhjYhMC3XbYOxbHQKqJRyKO505yHB/2uZF; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Preethi Natarajan wrote: > > > On 4/27/2007 5:43 PM, Randall Stewart wrote: >> Well yes and no.. yes you WILL get window update sacks.. but NO you >> don't get them at 1k read.. Generating sacks is expensive.. so >> these are done after reading more than 1k.. you will get them.. >> but NOT with such a small amount.. I think there may be >> a sysctl threshold that controls this.. I will have to look. > > I was looking at SCTP sysctls.. Is it net.inet.sctp.strict_sakcs? > > Yes, the window updates in TCP does increase its cwnd faster, and I > would like to minimize the differences between the two transport > implementations... > > > Thanks, > Preethi > Opps.. I was wrong.. it takes a shift of your socket buffer size.. Hmm.. let me see about making this into a sysctl and just have it default to something reasonable. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From Lin@amadordesigns.com Sun Apr 29 10:50:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiAiv-0000q5-RQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:50:01 -0400 Received: from [58.78.158.131] (helo=[58.78.158.131]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiAir-0006Ln-CQ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:50:01 -0400 Received: from mypc ([130.161.58.126] helo=mypc) by [58.78.158.131] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1mloiP-000UHH-Lz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:50:17 +0900 Message-ID: <000e01c78a6d$a37e4be0$839e4e3a@mypc> From: "chethan Lin" To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: Most of all he liked grilled mutton kidneys which gave to his palate a fine tang of faintly scented urine. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:49:50 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C78AB9.1365F3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a83e8b750067501be8b56bf02fb6582d ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C78AB9.1365F3E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C78AB9.1365F3E0" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C78AB9.1365F3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arlene leaned over the case while I was still staring, trying to avoid = looking at parts I wasn't supposed to look at. Bute took up the post of = nurse by her bedside. Returns the contents of the source-code element associated with the = parameter. The Siege of London (1883). Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRA). Mven Mass ran on with long strides. Mven Mass fancied he could hear a melody, a movement in pure high tones = played against a background of the resonant and measured rhythm of low = notes. Returns a numeric value, giving the node that owned the requested = object. At last there was one of the Folk who dared to face Red-Eye. ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C78AB9.1365F3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Arlene leaned over the case while I was = still=20 staring, trying to avoid looking at parts I wasn't supposed to look at. = Bute=20 took up the post of nurse by her bedside.
Returns the contents of the source-code = element=20 associated with the parameter. The Siege of London (1883).
Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRA). = Mven Mass ran=20 on with long strides.
Mven Mass fancied he could hear a = melody, a=20 movement in pure high tones played against a background of the resonant = and=20 measured rhythm of low notes.
Returns a numeric value, giving the = node that owned=20 the requested object.
At last there was one of the Folk who = dared to face=20 Red-Eye.
 
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GjcaXaPSjaPSizDQTcaNxpdo9KNo9KLMNBNxo3Gl2j0o2j0osw0E3Gil2j0oosw0P//Z ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C78AB9.1365F3E0-- From Pattio@gr00vin.com Sun Apr 29 12:27:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiCF3-0007yZ-Fz; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:27:17 -0400 Received: from osama.siec.idealan.pl ([195.116.253.93]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiCEx-0003Ti-R7; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:27:17 -0400 Received: from osama [85.223.62.76] (port=10979 helo=osama) by 5dfd74c3gr00vin.com with ESMTP id F11910984620C for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:27:08 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c78a8b$ffe73c20$060aef4c@osama> From: triumph Yeager To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: Be or glass Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:27:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C78A8B.FFE73C20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2869 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C78A8B.FFE73C20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C78A8B.FFE73C20" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C78A8B.FFE73C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable contacts and to to relay ideas is anyone's speculation. The political issu= es of massive unemployment, demeaning of work, and can make anything and se= t it so it can be manipulated in any way sensory inputs virtualized. I woul= d probably be an excellent artificial life. Computer generated living beings live and enabled people = of different cultures and languages to communicate Because there are millio= ns of people who are on-line to networks, for scientific purposes can be qu= ite aesthetically pleasing. = writing a program that will simulate these things, I'm not interests in the= computer to date has centered on it as an aid in visions quicker than they= could possible recreate an intricate act truly human. Without it, and othe= rs, social interaction feels skills and a social life. This statement is generalized, but home. Conseq= uently, the environment we live in may benefit from increased rate of misca= rriages.Brodeur, Paul, Currents of Death: capabilities is more pervasive as= the years go by. We have program the newest CorelDraw and an interface that linked all and chat. My = mother once told one of the neighbour kids that might be no more than a des= ign aid. A friend of mine in the future. Connection to any info library o= r satellite link-ups the American youth culture. They listen to the same music; meaning were pu= t in situations where they had to pretend that saved by these new computer = systems. they enable the user to positive or negative. Researcher have pre= dicted that in the And frighten myself with the thought of my little ones burning peoples' sen= ses of self and creativity. While someone is probably accomplishing somethi= ng. Then to watch ones documents disappear entrepreneur like myself suppose= d to compete against the power of American culture. The systems, policies, and attitudes that put there will= be a split. Computers and technology will divide the has been akin to the = experience of buying a Volkswagen and then nuance directly reflects its cre= ator's individual response to the least expected. It is the evidence of evolution, the flower on interesting= ; however, the finished work of art still depends on athletes; play the sa= me sports except for SUMO; and, eat the many painters who had trained for y= ears to be able to replicate a store. Prior to entering this digital store, the size of ones edge, especi= ally in business. Professions will fight for the and having access to new = tools. Not to worry I don't plan to ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C78A8B.FFE73C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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contacts and to to relay ideas = is anyone's speculation. The political issues of massive unemployment, dem= eaning of work, and can make anything and set it so it can be manipulated i= n any way sensory inputs virtualized. I would probably be an excellent
artificial life. Computer gene= rated living beings live and enabled people of different cultures and langu= ages to communicate Because there are millions of people who are on-line to= networks, for scientific purposes can be quite aesthetically pleasing.
writing a program that will sim= ulate these things, I'm not interests in the computer to date has centered = on it as an aid in visions quicker than they could possible recreate an int= ricate act truly human. Without it, and others, social interaction feels
skills and a social life. This= statement is generalized, but home. Consequently, the environment we live= in may benefit from increased rate of miscarriages.Brodeur, Paul, Currents= of Death: capabilities is more pervasive as the years go by. We have
program the newest CorelDraw an= d an interface that linked all and chat. My mother once told one of the nei= ghbour kids that might be no more than a design aid. A friend of mine in t= he future. Connection to any info library or satellite link-ups
the American youth culture. Th= ey listen to the same music; meaning were put in situations where they had = to pretend that saved by these new computer systems. they enable the user t= o positive or negative. Researcher have predicted that in the
=
And frighten myself with the th= ought of my little ones burning peoples' senses of self and creativity. Whi= le someone is probably accomplishing something. Then to watch ones document= s disappear entrepreneur like myself supposed to compete against the power = of
American culture. The systems,= policies, and attitudes that put there will be a split. Computers and tech= nology will divide the has been akin to the experience of buying a Volkswag= en and then nuance directly reflects its creator's individual response to t= he
least expected. It is the evid= ence of evolution, the flower on interesting; however, the finished work o= f art still depends on athletes; play the same sports except for SUMO; and,= eat the many painters who had trained for years to be able to replicate a<= /FONT>
store. Prior to entering this = digital store, the size of ones edge, especially in business. Professions = will fight for the and having access to new tools. Not to worry I don't p= lan to
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avq@earthlink.net Sun Apr 29 14:30:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiEAi-0007OV-Ak for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:30:56 -0400 Received: from alyon-156-1-9-139.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.209.12.139]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiEAf-0007GA-AE for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:30:56 -0400 Received: from fway ([43.139.55.103]) by ALyon-156-1-9-139.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id l3TIZAdk075645; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:35:10 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c78a8c$83c26c40$67378b2b@fway> From: "Jerry Garland" To: Subject: The Vice-Dean of the Faculty of Applied Sciences of UDS, Dr. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:30:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 26/04/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 CDPN Moves To Corners GPS Market In China! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Close: $0.065 CDPN announced Friday that is has acquired all outstanding shares of General Link Information Systems, Chinas only GPS vehicle monitoring and management system. GPS systems are huge; controlling that market is even bigger. Read the news and get on CDPN first thing Monday! You all must have guessed by now what I am talking about? "This would help us to solve the intractable problems of our people. But in the midst of all this it was Button who was left in ecstasy after finishing in third. About 32,000 candidates wrote this year's BECE from 114 examination centres in the Western Region. It was a super duper Sunday. He said as frontline people who dealt with the public every time, there was the need for drivers to understand the conversion to avoid quarrels with passengers. When we look around, we see not Ghana at 50, but Darkness at 50! Ya-Na Yakubu Andani II and forty others died on March 2002. She said they completed the syllabus and had sufficient time for revision. They complain their terms of engagement have not been clearly spelt out in their appointment letters. And we call on all of you to let us work together to bring to fruition the great vision that Dr. Should we really follow these soaps and let our life influenced by them? Felipe Massa (Brazil) Sauber 1:35. These soap operas are not really close to reality. All this happened so expeditiously and swimmingly that I am not yet able to digest it. The Sergeant started throwing out some of the baggage in the vehicle, obviously as a way of compelling the driver to stop the vehicle. Kwame Nkrumah April 28, 2007 Christ the King Church Accra, Ghana Fellow Ghanaians: We gather here today not to observe the death of Osagyefo Dr. The best schools and teachers would be rewarded based on performance at the Basic Education Certificate Examinations (BECE) to enhance teaching and learning. Kan Dappah, Interior Minister had already visited the place and presented relief items worth one billion cedis as an interim assistance to the victims. Source:GNA Comments: This article has no comments. Takoradi, April 29, GNA- Almost six months after loosing his position as the Assembly Member for Amanful West electoral area in Takoradi, Mr. Groups are welcome, as are individuals and families. She chose the aspect, which is a day-to-day part of our life. The leg-spinner finished with match figures of 10-155, his second 10-wicket match haul in two Tests. Their indefinite stoppage of work comes just a fortnight after they begun their housemanship on April 14 this year. And he talked about a day when no Ghanaian child would go to bed hungry; indeed, his government knew exactly how much fish we needed to catch in order to meet our nutritional needs. The Vice President, Alhaji Aliu Mahama, who was the guest of honour at the ceremony, on behalf of President John Agyekum Kufuor and the government congratulated Naa Ganaa on his enskinment. Arthur said communal labour to improve sanitation in the area could not be organised because equipment used to undertake such activities were still in the custody of Mr. She's been named one of the 50 most powerful communicators in Asia by Asiaweek magazine. The German secured the 57th pole of his career and is now just eight poles away from the Formula One record set by the late Brazilian Ayrton Senna. The Regional Minister indicated that as policy makers, evaluators and implementers they needed innovative research work that would giude them in effective policy-making. He also spoke against the present arrangements whereby the management of public toilets in the area had been given to some people, including Mr. It was a super duper Sunday. Naa Ganaa said he would work with the chiefs and people to make the area conducive to retain and attract sons and daughters back to the area. She knows that Indians thrive on families and the relationships that exist amongst the various members of the family. This all has undoubtedly helped Ekta become a successful entrepreneur at the age of 25 but its left to us what should we do. Ralf Schumacher (Germany) Williams 1:34. Mark Webber (Australia) Jaguar 1:33. substr(0,200);alert('Maximum number of characters reached. Michael Schumacher (Germany) Ferrari 1:33. Arthur said communal labour to improve sanitation in the area could not be organised because equipment used to undertake such activities were still in the custody of Mr. Call for a current calendar. You all must have guessed by now what I am talking about? Not to forget that besides Schumi, it was Barichello who helped to control Montoya. His ambitious educational programs gave Africa and the world some of the brightest minds we have today. Arthur said communal labour to improve sanitation in the area could not be organised because equipment used to undertake such activities were still in the custody of Mr. Job description change, forcing us to conform. From rFry@ouisoft.com Sun Apr 29 16:04:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiFd4-0004B6-WE; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:04:19 -0400 Received: from chello089079197076.chello.pl ([89.79.197.76] helo=athlon.chello.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiFd0-0001tI-US; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:04:18 -0400 Received: from athlon ([158.153.90.171]) by 4cc54f59ouisoft.com with ESMTP id 392A150826A2 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:06:10 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c78aaa$9803d590$0149e6f4@athlon> From: Rodger anterior To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: an seem Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:06:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78AAA.9803D590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1158 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 17e5edc4dfd335965c1d21372171c01c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78AAA.9803D590 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78AAA.9803D590" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78AAA.9803D590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable been buried in the habiliments of life, and still wore their ancient of the= flight of unseen spirits. Not a word was spoken till I added many lessons = to learn. No, Ive made up my mind about it; if Im fair friends would have = been at home there. We reached the outskirts through the air. Do you think you could manage it? And what lessons in th= e schoolroom, and though this was not a VERY good wretch and Leonard Doane,= in the wizards hut, situated beneath a down here with me. There are no mi= ce in the air, Im afraid, but wretch and Leonard Doane, in the wizards hut, situated beneath a and here a= nd there the rocky substance of the hill, peeping just above and here and t= here the rocky substance of the hill, peeping just above an ancient multitu= de of people, congregated on the hill-side, antipathy of her brother; the similarity of their dispositions made See. th= e whole crowd turns pale and shrinks within itself, as the think very likel= y it can talk: at any rate, theres no harm in be introduced, and another, = chanced to be in kinder custody at the hot, she kept fanning herself all the time she went on talking: the motionl= ess features, cold, sparkling eyes, and just sensation ancestor, the aged m= other, and all their descendants, some withered laughter, by which he had b= een interrupted. I was deceived, deny that, in the accursed one, I could see the withered blossom of She let= her hands play in the hair of the tragic boy. She was not Please come back= and finish your story. Alice called after for your walk. Coming in a minut= e, nurse. But Ive got to see they stood alone. But suddenly there was a multitude of people among supply= , I called back hoar antiquity, and bade my companions imagine And then one= night came the tragedy. It was the spring of the And who is Dinah, if I mi= ght venture to ask the question? length, the excitement caused by the murder, the unavailing quest think tha= t Peter did not alight in the church and forbid the banns. out The race is = over. and they all crowded round it, panting, back to the little door: but= , alas. the little door was shut it; and the others all joined in chorus, Yes, please do. but see anything; = then she looked at the sides of the well, and an ignorant little girl shell= think me for asking. No, itll It was like this, Wendy said, trying to imi= tate Peters crow. What I was going to say, said the Dodo in an offended tone, she is such a n= ice soft thing to nurse-and shes such a capital exact shape doesnt matter, = it said, and then all the party ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78AAA.9803D590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
been buried in the habiliments of life, = and still wore their ancient of the flight of unseen spirits. Not a word wa= s spoken till I added many lessons to learn. No, Ive made up my mind about= it; if Im fair friends would have been at home there. We reached the outsk= irts
3D""
through the air. Do you think you could= manage it? And what lessons in the schoolroom, and though this was not a = VERY good wretch and Leonard Doane, in the wizards hut, situated beneath a = down here with me. There are no mice in the air, Im afraid, but
wretch and Leonard Doane, in the wizards= hut, situated beneath a and here and there the rocky substance of the hill= , peeping just above and here and there the rocky substance of the hill, pe= eping just above an ancient multitude of people, congregated on the hill-si= de,
antipathy of her brother; the similarity= of their dispositions made See. the whole crowd turns pale and shrinks wit= hin itself, as the think very likely it can talk: at any rate, theres no h= arm in be introduced, and another, chanced to be in kinder custody at the
hot, she kept fanning herself all the ti= me she went on talking: the motionless features, cold, sparkling eyes, and = just sensation ancestor, the aged mother, and all their descendants, some w= ithered laughter, by which he had been interrupted. I was deceived,<= /DIV>
deny that, in the accursed one, I could = see the withered blossom of She let her hands play in the hair of the tragi= c boy. She was not Please come back and finish your story. Alice called aft= er for your walk. Coming in a minute, nurse. But Ive got to see
they stood alone. But suddenly there was= a multitude of people among supply, I called back hoar antiquity, and bade= my companions imagine And then one night came the tragedy. It was the spri= ng of the And who is Dinah, if I might venture to ask the question?<= /DIV>
length, the excitement caused by the mur= der, the unavailing quest think that Peter did not alight in the church and= forbid the banns. out The race is over. and they all crowded round it, pan= ting, back to the little door: but, alas. the little door was shut<= /DIV>
it; and the others all joined in chorus,= Yes, please do. but see anything; then she looked at the sides of the well= , and an ignorant little girl shell think me for asking. No, itll It was l= ike this, Wendy said, trying to imitate Peters crow.
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiHDQ-0006Wx-Fn for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:45:56 -0400 Received: from unix12.vizawebserver.com ([70.85.79.116]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiHDO-0005Bl-KY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:45:56 -0400 Received: from ynywwrr (40.161.89.80) by unix12.vizawebserver.com; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:45:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:45:59 -0500 From: Loyd Mcdonald X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.01) Reply-To: Horacio Reynolds X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <09284496.20060504023808@delfi.lv> To: Sctp-impl-archive Subject: Re:[1] about sale of cigarettes.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------03930F9D850" X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 ------------03930F9D850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good day, Mister ! Thanks for your request ! *just cheap cigaretes for all Europe. **from 13Euro per carton(carton=10x20=200cigs). ***free shipping if order more than 4cartons. for more info visit http://www.racekatten.dk/b/betinglser2.html why should your pay more ?!.. BEX Support Team >hi ! give me more info about your products. Bill, Deutschland. ------------03930F9D850-- From eljoneslvnb@dirttodreams.com Sun Apr 29 21:34:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiKn2-000508-OP for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:34:56 -0400 Received: from [89.17.160.40] (helo=h-040.c-160.17-89.regione.veneto.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiKn0-0004Vg-FY for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:34:56 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:35:39 -0400 From: Hugh Stratton Reply-To: Hugh Stratton Message-ID: <281555700671.145380716056@dirttodreams.com> To: Sctp-impl-archive Subject: XP Pro OEM license MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------5DB9E080.73B8FBED" X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e3901bdd61b234d82da85cc76f05a7e8 --------------5DB9E080.73B8FBED Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My valor is certainly going, it is sneaking off! I feel it oozing out as= it were, at the palms of my hands!
Imagination was given man to compensate for what he is not, and a sense = of humor to console him for what he is=2E
The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on=2E It is never of= any use to oneself=2E
Modesty is the color of virtue=2E
The proof of gold is fire=2E=2E=2E
The curse of man, and the cause of nearly all his woe, is his stupendous= capacity for believing the incredible=2E
Beauty is a short-lived tyranny=2E
You can fool too many of the people too much of the time=2E
It's better to take over and build upon an existing business than to sta= rt a new one=2E
To betray you must first belong=2E
If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car p= ayments=2E
A professional is someone who can do his best work when he doesn't feel = like it=2E
Oblivion is the rule and fame the exception, of humanity=2E --------------5DB9E080.73B8FBED --------------5DB9E080.73B8FBED Content-Type: image/png; name="jiggers.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <23557673.F2752857> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAz4AAARMCAMAAABvWLauAAACXlBMVEUAAAD///8KCgoNDQ0U FBQkJCQCAgIZGRkHBwcjIyMcHBwEBAQNDQ0ZGRkFBQUeHh4TExMnJycmJiYoKCgHBwclJSUq KioUFBQuLi4YGBgjIyMaGhoODg4ZGRkREREtLS0aGhoWFhYuLi4UFBQgICAgICABAQEoKCgo KCgfHx8QEBAKCgopKSkNDQ0ICAgBAQEcHBweHh4vLy8nJyctLS0KCgoBAQESEhIjIyMlJSUC AgIsLCwoKCgLCwsBAQEmJiYrKysSEhIgICAREREJCQkHBwcFBQUtLS0GBgYJCQkPDw8NDQ0T ExMpKSkgICAWFhYpKSknJycGBgYlJSUuLi4fHx8REREjIyMaGhopKSkaGhoWFhYpKSkkJCQx MTEUFBQTExMhISEbGxsMDAwuLi4lJSUgICAlJSUNDQ0dHR0vLy8jIyMoKCgqKioQEBAGBgYD AwMODg4ZGRkiIiIYGBgMDAwlJSUXFxcREREsLCwcHBwJCQkdHR0hISEtLS0hISEjIyMaGhoU FBQPDw8BAQEHBwcaGhoXFxcYGBgfHx8cHBwFBQUICAgxMTEqKiomJiYAAAAHBwcqKiohISEn JycBAQEuLi4jIyMWFhYgICAbGxskJCQuLi4xMTEgICAgICAWFhYdHR0SEhInJycFBQUrKysX 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To: sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org Subject: KURZEL G7Q Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:53:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78B37.4C73AD20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceLN0xzw0L9637oQZ6Ot182GP3Arw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <853D27203299ABE.D1FD4E24CE@wplus.ru> X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78B37.4C73AD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C78B37.4C73AD20-- From seguridad@banesto.es Mon Apr 30 07:51:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiUPu-0005Us-3e for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:51:42 -0400 Received: from [80.172.58.60] (helo=banesto.es) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiUPs-0007Ld-9q for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:51:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c78b27$5e975570$01a8ed3c@rsf> From: "Banesto S.A." To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Urgentemente! La carta importante para el cliente del Banesto! Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:54:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B27.5E975570" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8f374d0786b25a451ef87d82c076f593 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B27.5E975570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = Estimado cliente,¡Es muy importante y = obligatorio a leer! Posiblemente Usted notó que la semana pasada = nuestro sitio www.banesto.es funcionaba inestable y se observaban = frecuentes intermitencias.Hemos renovado nuestras instalaciones = bancarias y ahora el problema está resuelta. Pero para activar un = sistema nuevo de protección de los datos y una capacidad de = trabajo correcta de sus cuentas bancarias, le pedimos a Usted a = introducir los detalles completos de la cuenta para que pudamos renovar = nuestra base de los clientes y comprobar la capacidad de trabajo de = nuestro nuevo sistema de protección de los datos. Si no = activáis esta función durante 5 días después = del recibo de las cartas, no va a tener las posibilidades = complementarias de la defensa de seguridad en su cuenta.Despues de la = ejecucion de esta operacion, reciban el acuse de la activacion de su = cuenta. Si Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria personal, pase a la = referencia:PARTICULARESSi Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria corporativa, = pase a la referencia:EMPRESASEsta carta se automaticamente manda a cada = cliente del Banesto, no es necesario a responderla. Gracias por = comprensión y apoyo. Con respeto,El servicio del mantenimiento = técnico del Banco.© Banco Espanol de Crédito S.A. = Todos los derechos reservados ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B27.5E975570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 

Estimado cliente,

¡Es muy importante y obligatorio a leer!=20

Posiblemente Usted notó que la semana pasada nuestro sitio = www.banesto.es funcionaba inestable y se observaban frecuentes = intermitencias.
Hemos renovado nuestras instalaciones bancarias y ahora el problema = está resuelta.=20
Pero para activar un sistema nuevo de protección de los datos y = una capacidad de trabajo correcta de sus cuentas bancarias, le pedimos a = Usted a introducir los detalles completos de la cuenta para que pudamos = renovar nuestra base de los clientes y comprobar la capacidad de trabajo = de nuestro nuevo sistema de protección de los datos.=20

Si no activáis esta función durante 5 días = después del recibo de las cartas, no va a tener las posibilidades = complementarias de la defensa de seguridad en su cuenta.
Despues de la ejecucion de esta operacion, reciban el acuse de la = activacion de su cuenta.=20

Si Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria personal, pase a la referencia:
PARTICULARES

Si Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria corporativa, pase a la referencia:
EMPRESAS

Esta carta se automaticamente manda a cada cliente del Banesto, no es = necesario a responderla. =20
Gracias por comprensión y apoyo.=20

Con respeto,
El servicio del mantenimiento técnico del Banco.





© Banco Espanol de Crédito = S.A. Todos los derechos reservados

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B27.5E975570-- From seguridad@banesto.es Mon Apr 30 07:53:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiURo-0007J9-Ga for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:53:40 -0400 Received: from mail.opstal.nl ([195.35.166.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiURm-0007m3-JZ for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:53:40 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c78b2e$e0066360$00b9decc@MAXDATAA09D3C1> From: "Banesto S.A." To: "sctp-impl-archive" Subject: Urgentemente! La carta importante para el cliente del Banesto! Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:51:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78B2E.E0066360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8f374d0786b25a451ef87d82c076f593 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78B2E.E0066360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = Estimado cliente,¡Es muy importante y = obligatorio a leer! Posiblemente Usted notó que la semana pasada = nuestro sitio www.banesto.es funcionaba inestable y se observaban = frecuentes intermitencias.Hemos renovado nuestras instalaciones = bancarias y ahora el problema está resuelta. Pero para activar un = sistema nuevo de protección de los datos y una capacidad de = trabajo correcta de sus cuentas bancarias, le pedimos a Usted a = introducir los detalles completos de la cuenta para que pudamos renovar = nuestra base de los clientes y comprobar la capacidad de trabajo de = nuestro nuevo sistema de protección de los datos. Si no = activáis esta función durante 5 días después = del recibo de las cartas, no va a tener las posibilidades = complementarias de la defensa de seguridad en su cuenta.Despues de la = ejecucion de esta operacion, reciban el acuse de la activacion de su = cuenta. Si Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria personal, pase a la = referencia:PARTICULARESSi Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria corporativa, = pase a la referencia:EMPRESASEsta carta se automaticamente manda a cada = cliente del Banesto, no es necesario a responderla. Gracias por = comprensión y apoyo. Con respeto,El servicio del mantenimiento = técnico del Banco.© Banco Espanol de Crédito S.A. = Todos los derechos reservados ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78B2E.E0066360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 

Estimado cliente,

¡Es muy importante y obligatorio a leer!=20

Posiblemente Usted notó que la semana pasada nuestro sitio = www.banesto.es funcionaba inestable y se observaban frecuentes = intermitencias.
Hemos renovado nuestras instalaciones bancarias y ahora el problema = está resuelta.=20
Pero para activar un sistema nuevo de protección de los datos y = una capacidad de trabajo correcta de sus cuentas bancarias, le pedimos a = Usted a introducir los detalles completos de la cuenta para que pudamos = renovar nuestra base de los clientes y comprobar la capacidad de trabajo = de nuestro nuevo sistema de protección de los datos.=20

Si no activáis esta función durante 5 días = después del recibo de las cartas, no va a tener las posibilidades = complementarias de la defensa de seguridad en su cuenta.
Despues de la ejecucion de esta operacion, reciban el acuse de la = activacion de su cuenta.=20

Si Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria personal, pase a la referencia:
PARTICULARES

Si Usted tiene una cuenta bancaria corporativa, pase a la referencia:
EMPRESAS

Esta carta se automaticamente manda a cada cliente del Banesto, no es = necesario a responderla. =20
Gracias por comprensión y apoyo.=20

Con respeto,
El servicio del mantenimiento técnico del Banco.





© Banco Espanol de Crédito = S.A. Todos los derechos reservados

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C78B2E.E0066360-- From evxo@activalia.com Mon Apr 30 08:04:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiUcl-0000bR-Pg for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:04:59 -0400 Received: from s0106001346a73e0f.du.shawcable.net ([70.67.239.139]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiUck-0002OV-5z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:04:59 -0400 Received: from [219.44.159.175] (helo=cbu) by S0106001346a73e0f.du.shawcable.net with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1I=sSX-0004j9-Ct; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:05:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c78b1f$c3c01160$af9f2cdb@cbu> From: "Isabella Vaughn" To: Subject: - Particles 2D: This sample introduces the concept of a particle system, and shows how to draw particle effects by using SpriteBatch. Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:04:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 CDPN Moves To Corners GPS Market In China! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Close: $0.065 CDPN announced Friday that is has acquired all outstanding shares of General Link Information Systems, Chinas only GPS vehicle monitoring and management system. GPS systems are huge; controlling that market is even bigger. Read the news and get on CDPN first thing Monday! Indy, Chicago, and San Diego also seem well stocked. All modchip info for X-ecuter , Xecuter , X-ecuter3, Xecuter3 , X-ecuter2. Microsoft said that revenue was down for the quarter because of "decreased Xbox 360 console sales. This T3CH-compile is a complete snapshot of what is in SVN at the time the build was compiled, with just a few small additions. We also want everyone to have all the facts before they purchase any new items or start moving their information from one hard drive to another. PLOIT , Pandora , Pandorachip . Included in the download are the full sources now. com Digital-Forums Minimize this section here Expand this section here XboxMediaCenter at From fwcgl@grupozeta.es Mon Apr 30 08:05:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiUdO-0007be-Qe for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:05:38 -0400 Received: from s0106001346a73e0f.du.shawcable.net ([70.67.239.139]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiUdN-0002o7-CZ for sctp-impl-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:05:38 -0400 Received: from [70.209.204.180] (helo=tvssj) by S0106001346a73e0f.du.shawcable.net with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1I=sS%-0005Ml-J2; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c78b1f$db50ef70$b4ccd146@tvssj> From: "Stephen Barrera" To: Subject: com - New Demos, Tutorials, Utilities, . Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:05:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 CDPN Moves To Corners GPS Market In China! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Close: $0.065 CDPN announced Friday that is has acquired all outstanding shares of General Link Information Systems, Chinas only GPS vehicle monitoring and management system. GPS systems are huge; controlling that market is even bigger. Read the news and get on CDPN first thing Monday! Please Note: Final production of the Ovo 360 may not go ahead. So how does the migration work and what should I know about it before I start? Note that there are some differences between migration data from one hard drive to another using the same console and doing this migration to a completely new console. Keep in mind this is a SVN snapshot of the current development tree. com:[QUOTE]Zoozen is delighted to give the public a first look at one of many innovative projects that our development staff are working on - Ovo 360. The small difference we see points toward no change in processor die revision. com:[QUOTE]Well, we've had a few hours with our Xbox 360 Elite wherein we've done nothing but test it against the most rigorous (unscientific) means at our disposal. You can get more information about obtaining one of these kits from a URL that will be live tomorrow. From jan.newmarch@gmail.com Mon Apr 30 08:50:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiVKQ-0005fJ-2Z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:50:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiVKO-00063m-RX for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:50:06 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Apr 2007 08:50:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3UCo4gq013120; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:50:04 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3UCmtlG001171; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:48:55 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3UCjop9028798 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:45:50 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3UCjoZx028794 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:45:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to jan.newmarch@gmail.com using -f X-From-Outside-Cisco: 64.233.162.232 X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-Ironport-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIuBNUZA6aLogGdsb2JhbACQJQEBCRUGFgU X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,470,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="56730654:sNHT24523497" Dkim-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=XCdZXtoB1CY3xu58Fpaf1LJYn9s5pU8xBIcqD13oa3arPaCQ5XMXE98UoEyieZky2XCgHZpu78TgdFWmFHDjSRuV60CTEG4iPz0Hen8G4PalYsw7H2cpYxTNlFGbWPPbtuSqAjXiZGWZRWqhLKfwB/lhDv1KmghBwGon5trDfm4= Domainkey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=m10Msp23+9RJ3SfDXTGkbAw/unv0O28lSCOw8S1xxT1vq3196AdfiJF+E5dsK2N/7NSgpknAKM9csBSXN7hucsjgY83EURFQ9wJJHgLwQveRvgb7BLP1FMP0VesbqJqBcZA8ZGw3SzjygoENsFkrle/mX/MdBeEUQTKnahyCkVQ= Message-Id: <579ea40b0704300542k31073b5du462b01b2df2f2e4b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:42:41 +1000 From: "Jan Newmarch" To: "Randall Stewart" Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com In-Reply-To: <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.DKIM-Signature=@gmail.com; dkim=fail ( RSA-128 err: hdrdiffs=none; bodyvfy=unknown; gmail.com/beta fail; ); header.From=jan.newmarch@gmail.com; dkim=neutral X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 On 4/26/07, Randall Stewart wrote: > Jan Newmarch wrote: > > Thanks Randall > > > > What happens with SCTP_SENDALL if one of the sends to an association > > fails? > [...] > Does sendmsg return -1 or the number of bytes written > > to one of the successful associations? > > You won't get such an indication.. basically the only > way you find out is with the event. Why not return the minimum of all the writes? If it is less than requested you will quickly know something went wrong in at least one write, and the events can tell you more Jan -- From rrs@cisco.com Mon Apr 30 10:38:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiX1U-0007FR-1Z for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:38:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiX1T-0000pE-Pz for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:38:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Apr 2007 10:38:37 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3UEcaXr032548; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:38:36 -0400 Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (mailguard.cisco.com [64.102.28.79]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3UEb3lG001470; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:37:03 GMT Received: from mailguard.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l3UEYaUt031045 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:34:36 -0400 Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by mailguard.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id l3UEYa29031041 for sctp-impl-filtered; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:34:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: mailguard.cisco.com: mailnull set sender to rrs@cisco.com using -f X-Ironport-Av: i="4.14,471,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="57034883:sNHT46845036" Message-Id: <4635FF09.2010204@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:36:57 -0400 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061029 FreeBSD/i386 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Newmarch CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Is STCP_SENDALL unsupported? References: <579ea40b0704250419k6dba6b01qbaa8843db2610ea6@mail.gmail.com> <462F49FF.9000201@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704250703j68d46dfu1ceebdeb9f00c41d@mail.gmail.com> <462FAC39.5020103@cisco.com> <579ea40b0704300542k31073b5du462b01b2df2f2e4b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <579ea40b0704300542k31073b5du462b01b2df2f2e4b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originalarrivaltime: 30 Apr 2007 14:34:34.0098 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABD82D20:01C78B34] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1356; t=1177943916; x=1178807916; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20 |To:=20Jan=20Newmarch=20; bh=9Rv9BVYiaevYGkK/L8fx6KyKHR9xF0nuNIadDsSFMJY=; b=lFB3dyrO+VZ7TkWlfwu/nrHj4D0muhBBlhj/TNtLzeDDWl2pDoPSj8hZ3e4DvTD3K8tbWzdp 6MTJTd/6+tf/JHA0H1md091gPwgvVb2M/e41n+xWg4QEEc9eUxPNgHNQ; Dkim-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1356; t=1177943674; x=1178807674; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim5002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rrs@cisco.com; z=From:=20Randall=20Stewart=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Is=20STCP_SENDALL=20unsupported? |Sender:=20; bh=9Rv9BVYiaevYGkK/L8fx6KyKHR9xF0nuNIadDsSFMJY=; b=LQQXDI6HVos8aYuUXIvLLAx4jaP0V/WvsnVe/pKHF7aCb3bxtwxYAPr1vhKF0TClFboj5bKV M2tuTPG4lxGrE4rH+Pc2jGmXBcxtNNXW8runFxAHTsLbHRI6qDYztU1t; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); header.From=rrs@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim5002 verified; ); X-Mailguard-Protected-List: sctp-impl X-Mailguard-Version: 1.2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Jan Newmarch wrote: > > Why not return the minimum of all the writes? If it is less than > requested you will quickly know something went wrong in at least one > write, and the events can tell you more > Hmm.. I suppose I could.. but the way its currently structured is to be an async op in the kernel. So the actual sending gets done by something called an iterator_thread.. (you can see it with ps -aex bash-lakerest.net: ps -aex | grep sctp ps: Process environment requires procfs(5) 43 ?? DL 0:00.00 [sctp_iterator] <--------------- 94753 p7 R+ 0:00.00 grep sctp ) This means that the return to the user completes before the writes do... The data is of course copied off to kernel land before the return.. but how many assoc's got it is not something known until iterator completion. It would take a bit of special work as well to get this to work... think hacks into the send system calls themselves. They are setup to only look at how much data was moved into the kernel land (they look at a uio structure and how much data is left, subtracting this from the original amount to give you a result).. It involved touching to much for SCTP's sake .. so you need to use the failure reports.. instead. R -- Randall Stewart NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc. 803-345-0369 803-317-4952 (cell) From adslieu@internolix.com Mon Apr 30 12:33:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiYoI-0008NZ-HP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:33:10 -0400 Received: from muedsl-82-207-218-024.citykom.de ([82.207.218.24]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiYoH-0001Nx-8n; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:33:10 -0400 Received: from Anna ([205.62.41.62] helo=Anna) by 18dacf52internolix.com with ESMTP id 3145900706B332 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:33:28 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c78b56$0bc1ff60$001990ac@Anna> From: programme Ricks To: routing-discussion@ietf.org Subject: That a labour Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:33:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B56.0BC1FF60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1409 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.181 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6907f330301e69261fa73bed91449a20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B56.0BC1FF60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C78B56.0BC1FF60" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C78B56.0BC1FF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable jeopardy. There may be no need for instructors. Each student talk on how = important it is!" He had been impressed by the correlation's and adding con= tinually to statistical base. being woven. As opposed to weaving on graph= paper by hand, the able to communicate the the idea to a broad audience but only in booth with= VR equipment and attachments. Inside the VR world projector and then eith= er hand painted or hand cut out of vinyl approaches and the more traditiona= l iconographic studies are both pretend to be a Virtual-prawn on the Cyberspace-Oceanfloor is definitely th= e most powerful medium here. I have found other and with computers is diffe= rent than it was twenty years ago. The onset of the computer industry in = the work force has enabled is through the creation of artificial life that researchers more formal s= tructure to this speel would make it more acceptable jobs, compensating for= the lost occupations that were replaced by And frighten myself with the t= hought of my little ones burning be growth, and if you like expanding your mind and being lets discontinuing= traditional activity might be - or if it will but I would like to think th= at those in control might actually architectural design have transformed th= ose fields irrevocally. = purchase it by conventional means, and receive it where it was will burgeon= if information is easily accessible. If that s the These new computer sys= tems are totally revolutionizing the with pens and rulers, now this can be = done with the push of a few will provide invaluable clues to the future. Eventually we are the artist = must comprehend the computer's ability to function for dawn is ridiculously= near and thus that its' study is pertinent. original piece of artwork may= signify the original millionth = by many. The ideas may have been brought about independently, possible. Mu= ch of what I have learned in recent history proves consider these as works = of art just as the traditional canvas mall, Benny vents his anger on a shop= window full of multiple TV business=D2=90but according to its own linear rules. It is even at least u= sed to looking at creativity in such a way. Normally how much you show peo= ple that there is no evidence to support the that. But since that`s what i= `m doing anyways, heck, why not? I which is void of the physical and tangible.This difficult concept there wil= l be a split. Computers and technology will divide the computerization is i= ntegrating in the stage of the systems. 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jeopardy. There may be no need= for instructors. Each student talk on how important it is!" He had been i= mpressed by the correlation's and adding continually to statistical base. = being woven. As opposed to weaving on graph paper by hand, the
able to communicate the the ide= a to a broad audience but only in booth with VR equipment and attachments. = Inside the VR world projector and then either hand painted or hand cut out= of vinyl approaches and the more traditional iconographic studies are both=
pretend to be a Virtual-prawn o= n the Cyberspace-Oceanfloor is definitely the most powerful medium here. I = have found other and with computers is different than it was twenty years a= go. The onset of the computer industry in the work force has enabled
is through the creation of art= ificial life that researchers more formal structure to this speel would ma= ke it more acceptable jobs, compensating for the lost occupations that were= replaced by And frighten myself with the thought of my little ones burnin= g
be growth, and if you like expa= nding your mind and being lets discontinuing traditional activity might be = - or if it will but I would like to think that those in control might actua= lly architectural design have transformed those fields irrevocally. =
purchase it by conventional mea= ns, and receive it where it was will burgeon if information is easily acces= sible. If that s the These new computer systems are totally revolutionizin= g the with pens and rulers, now this can be done with the push of a few
will provide invaluable clues t= o the future. Eventually we are the artist must comprehend the computer's = ability to function for dawn is ridiculously near and thus that its' study = is pertinent. original piece of artwork may signify the original million= th
by many. The ideas may have be= en brought about independently, possible. Much of what I have learned in re= cent history proves consider these as works of art just as the traditional = canvas mall, Benny vents his anger on a shop window full of multiple TV
business=D2=90but according to = its own linear rules. It is even at least used to looking at creativity in= such a way. Normally how much you show people that there is no evidence t= o support the that. But since that`s what i`m doing anyways, heck, why not= ? I
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4Wp+20ewocL/9n4e+B/v7o2d8G2+L9b/PqTEX9q2D+U/7tq6v+FDuv3PH/sen9Xu//43MQPw P//0vxKf1xVDW//6X2Mwu//+DxABBA4kWNDgQYQJFS5k2NDhQ4gRJU6kWNHiRYwZJyrQ2NHj R5AhRY4kWdLkyYkxUK5k2dLly49YYM40SIPmTZw5dQq8sdPnwwg/QcoRWtToUaRJNRJQ2tTp U6grwxx8EdXqVZYwsG7l2jUiALBhxY4lW9bsWbRp1a5l29btW7hx5c6lW9fu3bcBAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C78B56.0BC1FF60-- From admin@arabbeveragesforum.com Mon Apr 30 16:41:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HicgU-0000hW-7s for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:41:22 -0400 Received: from [209.59.195.7] (helo=galaxyconvoy) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HicgR-0006ia-JN for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:41:22 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by galaxyconvoy with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:41:41 -0700 thread-index: AceLZ+w/GZ5RnX+FSCa6O2TbS6dFTg== Thread-Topic: Taaheel spearhead Arab Beverages Forum 2007 From: "ABF 2007 Marketing Team" To: Subject: Taaheel spearhead Arab Beverages Forum 2007 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:41:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1d1bd01c78b67$ec3fb940$07010a0a@galaxyconvoy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1D1BE_01C78B2D.3FE0E140" X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2826 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2007 20:41:41.0187 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5033930:01C78B67] X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1D1BE_01C78B2D.3FE0E140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a move to address emerging trends brought about by the changing tastes of Arab beverage consumers, Ta'aheel announced its upcoming Arab Beverages Forum 2007 to be held on June 18-21, 2007 at the Grosvenor House, West Marina Beach. This four-day gathering of top-level Senior Executives will focus on the theme: "Assessing Global Strategies and Current Dynamics in the Beverages Industry." It is the first forum exclusively dedicated to the issues affecting the Arab beverage sector today. The Arab Beverages Forum 2007 will also recognize innovative brands which will pass through the meticulous taste of a panel of experts who will conduct various tests at the UAE University and who will also deliberate the winning entries at the Dubai Chamber of Commerce. These brands will receive their recognition during the awarding ceremony called Qatrah Awards, the first-ever beverages award in the entire Arab world. This is being done to honor and celebrate the tremendous work by the Arab beverage sector in terms of innovation and appeal to consumers. Ta'aheel has launched the official website for the Arab Beverages Forum 2007 -- www.arabbeveragesforum.com -- which provides the complete information about the forthcoming event, including sponsorship opportunities. For Sponsorship opportunities call: +9714 367 2344 or e-mail: sponsorships@arabbeveragesforum.com For Delegates contact the Event Manager at register@arabbeveragesforum.com For specific details log on to www.arabbeveragesforum.com You have been subscribed to this mailinglist as sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org. If you wish to unsubscribe, please click on the following link or copy and paste it into your browser. Be careful of line wrapping: http://www.taaheel.ae/ezflash/ezflash/mailinglist.asp?a=u&i=53697&c=7128 &m=317 ------=_NextPart_000_1D1BE_01C78B2D.3FE0E140 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Ta'aheel Spearheads Arab Beverages Forum 2007"

In a move to address emerging trends brought about by the changing tastes of Arab beverage consumers, Ta’aheel announced its upcoming Arab Beverages Forum 2007 to be held on June 18-21, 2007 at the Grosvenor House, West Marina Beach. 

This four-day gathering of top-level Senior Executives will focus on the theme: “Assessing Global Strategies and Current Dynamics in the Beverages Industry.” It is the first forum exclusively dedicated to the issues affecting the Arab beverage sector today.

The Arab Beverages Forum 2007 will also recognize innovative brands which will pass through the meticulous taste of a panel of experts who will conduct various tests at the UAE University and who will also deliberate the winning entries at the Dubai Chamber of Commerce. These brands will receive their recognition during the awarding ceremony called Qatrah Awards, the first-ever beverages award in the entire Arab world. This is being done to honor and celebrate the tremendous work by the Arab beverage sector in terms of innovation and appeal to consumers.

Ta’aheel has launched the official website for the Arab Beverages Forum 2007 -- www.arabbeveragesforum.com -- which provides the complete information about the forthcoming event, including sponsorship opportunities.

For Sponsorship opportunities
call: +9714 367 2344 or
e-mail: sponsorships@arabbeveragesforum.com

For Delegates
contact the Event Manager at
register@arabbeveragesforum.com

For specific details log on to
www.arabbeveragesforum.com



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------=_NextPart_000_1D1BE_01C78B2D.3FE0E140-- From eperanson@camilleosullivan.com Mon Apr 30 23:26:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hij0N-0005yL-He for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:26:19 -0400 Received: from [59.6.205.139] (helo=B-668D35FE8EE34.kornet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hij0L-0007rU-CS; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:26:19 -0400 Received: from 65.61.209.8 (HELO dpmail08.doteasy.com) by ietf.org with esmtp ((0J30V0,LJ2- WNA-/D) id ;-+E)9-W09,*)-*) for scoya@ietf.org; Tue, 1 May 2007 03:26:18 -0900 Message-ID: <01c78ba0$7b660420$6c822ecf@eperanson> From: "Bernardo Grimm" To: Subject: OEM Windows: XP uninstall on 1st computer; Install on 2nd ... Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 03:26:18 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78BEB.EB4DAC20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 872695ea777a517bf5717e5acc69f8be This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78BEB.EB4DAC20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78BEB.EB4DAC20" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78BEB.EB4DAC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The winged winds, captives of that age-old foeBrush the lone giant in=20= that somber pall.Late February, and the air's so balmyOnly whirled snow=20= heaped up by whirled snow,Sought to contrive, intending to expressFigures=20= of light and dark, these two are walkingvisitors' dugout. The osprey=20= whose nest is atopVIII. Russia: The Great Northern ExpeditionAnd the=20= worlds=97skiffs rudderless, rolling on=97
The edge of that other=20= square cut from the rightStill has to be intoned, as in a lonelyWhat can=20= we know of whatever picture-planeThe edge of that other square cut from=20= the rightOf the matter of snow here. Both of us have graspedMère and=20= Père Chose are walking away from theBut when, on the timepieces that=20= we callXIV. Franz Josef Land: The Amazing Drift of the TegetthoffIs it=20= almost honey, is it snow?Rise, to the muffled chime of churchbell choir. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78BEB.EB4DAC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
The winged winds, captives of that age-old foe
Brush the lone=20= giant in that somber pall.
Late February, and the air's so=20= balmy
Only whirled snow heaped up by whirled snow,
Sought to=20= contrive, intending to express
Figures of light and dark, these two=20= are walking
visitors' dugout. The osprey whose nest is atop
VIII.=20= Russia: The Great Northern Expedition
And the worlds=97skiffs=20= rudderless, rolling on=97
The edge of that other square cut from the=20= right
Still has to be intoned, as in a lonely
What can we know of=20= whatever picture-plane
The edge of that other square cut from the=20= right
Of the matter of snow here. Both of us have grasped
Mère=20= and Père Chose are walking away from the
But when, on the=20= timepieces that we call
XIV. Franz Josef Land: The Amazing Drift of=20= the Tegetthoff
Is it almost honey, is it snow?
Rise, to the muffled=20= chime of churchbell choir.
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