From nobody Tue Jul 21 13:46:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F8B3A0A66 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:46:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7pEPjjxo5Hrc for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF9B43A0A68 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com with SMTP id m8so71567qvk.7 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wx8fuLf7VRGpZZRDApR9vMT6AYTxg2uqXn9scHsRoL0=; b=zTVOoe3e2bBR2qaF9UNqIQ9gTX+f5rXvpfPON5LmgYsTtI1hLxgXhQ2bwzUbIGmuhQ Yf/+6h6ZhOHSLI1VsxjPg1+rcg/o9cR8Ss6dg9spMT3tmDt44QbTB8DrCnFQD4O3gbRu LbQ61Gg8Khc1oGL/sHBrzuQZrp2XsaD9ugKGpH43tLT8rNpKBnB9UDKlJekLL5Ivph4E MLOLf9f4faSVKYH4GV7M1EFDQorS2bogd7pVcGe+unYAVol73jKftfHOORlGpQd3p0Wx EfKUM6KBnGile23VsW4SVshrYAWFANQ7jbp0f4OIn3yZ6C/6b14qvv7r7MTIp6Hdc89I faXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wx8fuLf7VRGpZZRDApR9vMT6AYTxg2uqXn9scHsRoL0=; b=KFzwyrhd+hEmYuW4MQVrEY/pGDJ2ykbexUbocB0FTXElhuXz2Hv0lYTCP3Znwz6WRs UY10sn7QkV4qf7sXHm2G2Tkv96nETwCGC92a8Yi4qteKtKav9W7rzMvg8i4g9apwn5JC /5J/Y/49Jv7XIT7MGeCmBF7icjfbQDNfCjl2KHlElcS0gnoPauez7cawBSejH//TcmdM LOHGoFQxE6Cs+lLXhwexU8IXCpfZXT8xChJBYtn5B+hsI4sgI3Woj6HegAL+9br9Y4C6 MbCF1+sVNx9MNi4n2IU9W7ER97Eg0AfiR2tcyb4TSoAFJdfJRyllzRgdxkNnyQtrB9eQ EknQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ZxiWAdiYKmw4Hc5zNYxY2mAPIKZhDdhqg89XAp2eaf0Z2uGgC emW5Gg6n6lRsMjIIle7Dxucw1GLAO6kU83KsnBGiobe+GhDdFQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxXJjFGwpvLqMTR/ju/qFvLyMoX+jFHEUMr9Mz2XTwThloCAG789TRh/qaVFUwaqFQin63K0eXzTECs2u9LrAc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1584:: with SMTP id m4mr27160070qvw.60.1595364413408; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:46:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Richard Barnes Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:46:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002645d905aaf9b93c" Archived-At: Subject: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:46:56 -0000 --0000000000002645d905aaf9b93c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey all, I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda. Great idea, thanks to whomever arranged that. In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they've had a proposed resolution in mind. Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are roughly: 0. Do nothing 1. Existing working group 2. AD sponsorship 3. New WG My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for its own small, focused working group. Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and sketched a charter for the WG here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=sharing I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here. But please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is wrong. Cheers, --Richard --0000000000002645d905aaf9b93c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey all,

I see that SFrame i= s on the DISPATCH agenda.=C2=A0 Great idea, thanks to whomever arranged tha= t.

In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone = more smoothly when they've had a proposed resolution in mind.=C2=A0 Rec= all that the DISPATCH outcomes are roughly:

0. Do = nothing
1. Existing working group
2. AD sponsorship=
3. New WG

My inclination is that this w= ork is probably about the right size for its own small, focused working gro= up.=C2=A0 Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and sketched a charter for = the WG here:

https://docs.google= .com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=3Dsha= ring

I think that captures everything I think = is important to get done here.=C2=A0 But please feel free to comment there = (or here) if you think the scope is wrong.

Cheers,=
--Richard
--0000000000002645d905aaf9b93c-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 16:53:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207483A0AA2 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:52:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0W5nh1pqj3Hz for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com (mail-ot1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346E43A09D8 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x332.google.com with SMTP id h1so459454otq.12 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:52:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=C/4jr5AaQgMdm442SA7ZbFSv5AKygPUIWdlmNv2zaG4=; b=RmCn+zQV9FDrpF7s3AIET4xidhLTf7nM/96SVCnpsPLNTW6DlS0lKrFt1uV7fwA0hw IinzvzwEG/DjcPy9jpiG/rdlJzqrpb+S18WbVJOHUD5tpbOQMMfRXpUwggv8ezSpESf3 xsRGvdRsKglM7QD0MhRiEZLmqSCmKgStaqGqY+9xvgpk5NCnC9qUQeM2/ANkYXUgbbPs jFADag0rAPuQAW/kjeZ0jWJApOjdXB2wTYt9cpl3e40ZcVWSOWnjqy52ECfSXSPDcNHn XZeH0GFcSy1YTf8pgYpICr5EAzD1bdHfadlCm45gmDBzW9UFeazjqqsz5Z2GhjsLR8/D kHyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=C/4jr5AaQgMdm442SA7ZbFSv5AKygPUIWdlmNv2zaG4=; b=RCOnYXPkZdtr6l38JYMLcp5BaHVtqKjVuHHFFPzgIVl7ijwr2aQ5nFhZGeaSDvkYjP x18H5Sas8VtkQ40rTsmyQJKNZb3leW1U2dOYeQLbbwTBH+wrgYBMlhQIv0iWM/CUKich NDy8JFdReIBEuEUZC3qkNUE2WDTGZ7wCLarVLrFvuNhGDcQ0v6Qrm+KfnDupwTQ14eE2 sn3130xzl7VTLqTysiYyasd1RWEUuTm+C9mmFP02JBfBDc730UJR6jOsIZcJKGWhPn9d nclexxMgDw3mILpN9iNKKbDzb8aZzzIWLCFVgZFzF7DlVcZxxWaEyAnIT9ce/WDPPSWL jfbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321U5AZ8e4chPRwtbA2FNezkXZEQnHNMX7tcYQWNf58ybRLQlcm rKHiHUSsQ28YHrY/iDJj485hAKLJdvt7Cy1gAAxCCvxNxl8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFlUUG1vroNvSne/iv5RyIp/mDAMLfj3s/VVEM3K0mT3sHRrVjqZtXHt+b5OIrAfA3pIUIWpKlhZUwqEgZ4AY= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7cc8:: with SMTP id r8mr28059505otn.209.1595375561290; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 16:52:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:52:30 +0800 Message-ID: To: Richard Barnes Cc: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009d4a1105aafc5114" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:52:59 -0000 --0000000000009d4a1105aafc5114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks richard for doing this. This looks interesting. A naive question, is the march 2021 deadline not too tight? for example if we decide to add a document for the video conference use case to show how MLS could be used, will it extend the deadline, have its own deadline (per document) or have to fit into the march 2021 deadline? On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > Hey all, > > I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda. Great idea, thanks to > whomever arranged that. > > In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they've > had a proposed resolution in mind. Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are > roughly: > > 0. Do nothing > 1. Existing working group > 2. AD sponsorship > 3. New WG > > My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for its > own small, focused working group. Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and > sketched a charter for the WG here: > > > https://docs.google..com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=sharing > > > I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here. > But please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is > wrong. > > Cheers, > --Richard > -- > Sframe mailing list > Sframe@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe > --0000000000009d4a1105aafc5114 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks richard for doing this.
This looks interesting.=
A naive question, is the march 2021 deadline not too tight? for = example if we decide to add a document for the video conference use case to= show how MLS could be used, will it extend the deadline, have its own dead= line (per document) or have to fit into the march 2021 deadline?

On We= d, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 AM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
Hey all,

= I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda.=C2=A0 Great idea, thanks to wh= omever arranged that.

In my experience, DISPATCH p= roposals have gone more smoothly when they've had a proposed resolution= in mind.=C2=A0 Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are roughly:
0. Do nothing
1. Existing working group
2. AD sponsorship
3. New WG

My inclina= tion is that this work is probably about the right size for its own small, = focused working group.=C2=A0 Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and sket= ched a charter for the WG here:

https://docs.google..com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnL= aPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=3Dsharing

I t= hink that captures everything I think is important to get done here.=C2=A0 = But please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is w= rong.

Cheers,
--Richard
--
Sframe mailing list
Sframe@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe
--0000000000009d4a1105aafc5114-- From nobody Wed Jul 22 04:10:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0E23A07EA for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 04:10:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W5MJIywffIci for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 04:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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by HE1PR07MB3226.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:33::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3216.15; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:10:22 +0000 Received: from HE1PR0702MB3772.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::546c:3b3:9193:3351]) by HE1PR0702MB3772.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::546c:3b3:9193:3351%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3216.016; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:10:22 +0000 From: Magnus Westerlund To: "rlb@ipv.sx" , "sframe@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter Thread-Index: AQHWX6BVS9ezzWCbUkm5Qx4nCnoBHKkTch8A Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:10:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Evolution 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.2 authentication-results: ipv.sx; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ipv.sx; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: 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base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HE1PR0702MB3772.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9f90396b-8e78-46f9-1bf1-08d82e2fd401 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jul 2020 11:10:22.6329 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 4UooW0hH1QEQkNyb011VlWMjiZ9+apdP631hBZv9B9CwOvkIQCwxbsv1F5eLvjjJy/ByRtyKFhKWwUiRCcru1gLmtDS+f/OoKuGP+x/6S8s= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3226 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:10:27 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06:55:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Richard Barnes Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:55:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: Alexandre GOUAILLARD Cc: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000034403205ab081878" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:55:41 -0000 --00000000000034403205ab081878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I would rate March 2021 as aggressive, but potentially achievable. On the one hand, deadlines for IETF WGs are not really enforced. On the other hand, since folks are already shipping code, this seemed like work that could move a bit more quickly than average. On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:52 PM Alexandre GOUAILLARD < Alex.GOUAILLARD@cosmosoftware.io> wrote: > Thanks richard for doing this. > This looks interesting. > A naive question, is the march 2021 deadline not too tight? for example if > we decide to add a document for the video conference use case to show how > MLS could be used, will it extend the deadline, have its own deadline (per > document) or have to fit into the march 2021 deadline? > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda. Great idea, thanks to >> whomever arranged that. >> >> In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they've >> had a proposed resolution in mind. Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are >> roughly: >> >> 0. Do nothing >> 1. Existing working group >> 2. AD sponsorship >> 3. New WG >> >> My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for its >> own small, focused working group. Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and >> sketched a charter for the WG here: >> >> >> https://docs.google..com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=sharing >> >> >> I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here. >> But please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is >> wrong. >> >> Cheers, >> --Richard >> -- >> Sframe mailing list >> Sframe@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe >> > --00000000000034403205ab081878 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would rate March 2021 as aggressive, but potentiall= y achievable.=C2=A0 On the one hand, deadlines for IETF WGs are not really = enforced.=C2=A0 On the other hand, since folks are already shipping code, t= his seemed like work that could move a bit more quickly than average.

On= Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:52 PM Alexandre GOUAILLARD <Alex.GOUAILLARD@cosmosoftware.io> wr= ote:
Thanks richard for doing this.
This looks interesting.
= A naive question, is the march 2021 deadline not too tight? for example if = we decide to add a document for the video conference use case to show how M= LS could be used, will it extend the deadline, have its own deadline (per d= ocument) or have to fit into the march 2021 deadline?

On Wed, Jul 22, = 2020 at 4:46 AM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
Hey all,

I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda.=C2=A0 Gr= eat idea, thanks to whomever arranged that.

In my = experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they've had= a proposed resolution in mind.=C2=A0 Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are= roughly:

0. Do nothing
1. Existing = working group
2. AD sponsorship
3. New WG
My inclination is that this work is probably about the right si= ze for its own small, focused working group.=C2=A0 Toward that goal, I'= ve gone ahead and sketched a charter for the WG here:

https://docs.google..com/document/d= /10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=3Dsharing
<= div>
I think that captures everything I think is important to= get done here.=C2=A0 But please feel free to comment there (or here) if yo= u think the scope is wrong.

Cheers,
--Ri= chard
--
Sframe mailing list
Sframe@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe
--00000000000034403205ab081878-- From nobody Wed Jul 22 09:52:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D843A0B07 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:52:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kCkwnMd9YVPm for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83EF73A0B03 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id b14so923089qkn.4 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:52:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+lt9Hg9b2D0taSr6OXwKbS/KUJDwjLMQvs5CWbDjXIk=; b=WpNaCkTYsoDA/hGu7Pv9JyAwcdqunEWgTsBdcHEUGD6tGegTjCmbfXH1T6vT+/L6zv F82Pnktajyt0NGNSarizZ96bPf0JAssIfD4ZYtEqHwv0JYEWP1vITWPNooQV91SMPJXC +IHbJOeqUBHip9yrTJLBjmxDMnWsHr9hqWdCXjaXYrgp3uqTRbRN4xoq4eVosD3PxHln 3vwh9UtAZCkeZeCLLlygORvI/X9PbfcklFC9rvvxjQOkRkSvcnA8ybL5oSZJnCoZvYht BA8rsQAiBt/veComTx8L3Qc0McjTaunPabBV1OoLcey+d7ggTmiklJ81qLRD72RZyu0N +Kcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+lt9Hg9b2D0taSr6OXwKbS/KUJDwjLMQvs5CWbDjXIk=; b=LyFvGxGTpGZ8Q2g2+ux8e4Zo2/OsfBT9WZB1SfZTncE/PkvXGx3UpYECuZPD4TKW6p 2LdA5mp9eVc4zq/YRyz4quQENltBE4Qyb761YgADUqgH5VtMC3sxyhERahY+0ELWWyok yoyBY7Tqhu3tNffRCP8zPqctfu7EiU0lZGybQUjk76kH8JKBc8MXWP/VqD5hsr6kuzRn DmGNQ/HGFXpnABnc6GzUKhKAjZ347UPL7D+3lNNBc/h7MLgvdAgYLxMyM4DI+vomv4aY z+q3fiUPINlfBi3AcFCuwRUVbf1Lf1Na06diZVqcziikELXdFe/Y+fEA5v9/kqv43s40 obpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531nNAbw/dQmT7KfR0RnsSnYZoCFtTBhy7l4lIo3BNXgkyNMQ7c+ OuBRkEc14SxHs/yAGZpOMRxx2ylwJBtQQ7r8uDhKE1eOGIg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwYnuhi9nFY/B7S05EQ+QQUuwXa16HLvDJOHY8MquI1VU2YS3vSGQ3G+DDgMeCmq+mhsqk+C0KiSe6+ak610Zk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:125b:: with SMTP id a27mr907055qkl.371.1595436747274; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:52:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Richard Barnes Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:52:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: Magnus Westerlund Cc: "sframe@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000095502805ab0a902e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:52:32 -0000 --00000000000095502805ab0a902e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey Magnus, Re signaling / formats: Every byte we add here is pure overhead, so I think my opening bid would be to document all the parameters that the senders and receivers need to agree on, but punt on actually negotiating/signaling them as much as possible. Re replay: I don't think anything new is needed in the data format (w.r.t. current draft), since there's already a counter. But it would be good to recommend that implementations enforce an anti-replay window. Re signatures: I would be comfortable leaving signatures out of scope / reserving for future work. While I agree it would be cool to have the additional security property they would provide (per-sender authentication), it's not clear to me that it needs to be part of the initial version here. --Richard On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:10 AM Magnus Westerlund < magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Some questions about this charter proposal. It seems to to say simply that > the > WG will define an encryption and authentication encapsulation of a media > ADU. > > It will not take into consideration of how it can be used in any existing > real- > time media distrubution system, such as transported over RTP signalled by > SIP, > WebRTC, RTSP etc. Or for that matter how one sticks it in an ISO based > media > file format that dominates the streaming world, and also live streaming. > > Shouldn't at least this work decide if the content of a SFRAME will contain > information to identify the format of the protected ADU, or if that is > required > to be done externally, or support both? > > I think this is part of a fundamental quesiton about the utility of the > format > and how one can use it. Having something internally also then raises the > question of what namespace to use. > > Also how are other meta data that is relevant to prevent attack such as > replay > are this included? > > I did note that the referenced draft do discuss signatures also. Is this > intended to be included or not. With SRTP with the exception of the TESLA > cipher > SRTP has not really had the property that a receiver can know which sender > within a conference that actually sent the media, only that it was someone > within the group that had the group key. As signature likely has additional > requirement on the key-exchange protocol as it would need to provide > assymetric > keys for the signature verification for each participant rather than just > group > keying material I think if this intended to be included should be mentioned > explicitly. > > Cheers > > Magnus > > > On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 16:46 -0400, Richard Barnes wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda. Great idea, thanks to > whomever > > arranged that. > > > > In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when > they've had > > a proposed resolution in mind. Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are > roughly: > > > > 0. Do nothing > > 1. Existing working group > > 2. AD sponsorship > > 3. New WG > > > > My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for > its own > > small, focused working group. Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and > sketched > > a charter for the WG here: > > > > > https://docs.google. > .com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=sharing > > > > I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here. > But > > please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is > wrong. > > > > Cheers, > > --Richard > -- > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Networks, Ericsson Research > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --00000000000095502805ab0a902e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Magnus,

Re signaling / f= ormats: Every byte we add here is pure overhead, so I think my opening bid = would be to document all the parameters that the senders and receivers need= to agree on, but punt on actually negotiating/signaling them as much as po= ssible.

Re replay: I don't think anything = new is needed in the data format (w.r.t. current draft), since there's = already a counter.=C2=A0 But it would be good to recommend that implementat= ions enforce an anti-replay window.

Re signatures:= I would be comfortable leaving signatures out of scope / reserving for fut= ure work.=C2=A0 While I agree it would be cool to have the additional secur= ity property they would provide (per-sender authentication), it's not c= lear to me that it needs to be part of the initial version here.
<= div>
--Richard

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:10 AM Magnus West= erlund <magnus.westerl= und@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

Some questions about this charter proposal. It seems to to say simply that = the
WG will define an encryption and authentication encapsulation of a media AD= U.

It will not take into consideration of how it can be used in any existing r= eal-
time media distrubution system, such as transported over RTP signalled by S= IP,
WebRTC, RTSP etc. Or for that matter how one sticks it in an ISO based medi= a
file format that dominates the streaming world, and also live streaming.
Shouldn't at least this work decide if the content of a SFRAME will con= tain
information to identify the format of the protected ADU, or if that is requ= ired
to be done externally, or support both?

I think this is part of a fundamental quesiton about the utility of the for= mat
and how one can use it. Having something internally also then raises the question of what namespace to use.

Also how are other meta data that is relevant to prevent attack such as rep= lay
are this included?

I did note that the referenced draft do discuss signatures also. Is this intended to be included or not. With SRTP with the exception of the TESLA c= ipher
SRTP has not really had the property that a receiver can know which sender<= br> within a conference that actually sent the media, only that it was someone<= br> within the group that had the group key. As signature likely has additional=
requirement on the key-exchange protocol as it would need to provide assyme= tric
keys for the signature verification for each participant rather than just g= roup
keying material I think if this intended to be included should be mentioned=
explicitly.

Cheers

Magnus


On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 16:46 -0400, Richard Barnes wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda.=C2=A0 Great idea, thanks = to whomever
> arranged that.
>
> In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they= 've had
> a proposed resolution in mind.=C2=A0 Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes= are roughly:
>
> 0. Do nothing
> 1. Existing working group
> 2. AD sponsorship
> 3. New WG
>
> My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for = its own
> small, focused working group.=C2=A0 Toward that goal, I've gone ah= ead and sketched
> a charter for the WG here:
>
>
https= ://docs.google..com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSez= oa7o/edit?usp=3Dsharing
>
> I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here= .=C2=A0 But
> please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is = wrong.
>
> Cheers,
> --Richard
--
Cheers

Magnus Westerlund


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Networks, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| = Phone=C2=A0 +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Mobile +46 73 0= 949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


--00000000000095502805ab0a902e-- From nobody Wed Jul 22 16:12:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5961D3A093B for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:12:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pRKrPbdmgYOi for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x62a.google.com (mail-ej1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A7D53A0938 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id rk21so4324142ejb.2 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:12:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=w0E0GhrQNwjrMPY02vgJhNuQDmUsBoCjhJ0V4itLOgQ=; b=fDz1CLgMrhi6jz/PGAVGCDmcvBEnxVfeTk5XJB5IDVNmxuScYj0Vc3ZR5L4iERW7qi fe+56VnWGMdmc5dYzW43G8zNRAseVuyFJD7cVnfITlCwE94dhPSyF9OYRoeh9j8OMRtq 5yOZ8qRJE0D8b6YM9TIDPDXXmwUERWbZlkGnt31+CjNZ2jD/qZwAKTJ6thd5sDPiQEr6 bNO8PpJiss06kMX5IdKyqCaYq8mcfWIaZ+7c7g/h7GsF3olKC+kt7k+6zt4Qm6hbSB3x 3sEzcK1LKiU8NpBP9HWiaNEI9KbZ0OyII8CqUQosNr33xzuplnZg5Tjk0QYIlTBstpHu i3Ng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w0E0GhrQNwjrMPY02vgJhNuQDmUsBoCjhJ0V4itLOgQ=; b=MCn+HPB5s+rOYm0gsooVqqBuS41ULS6rxJvMArF4DjXO2Kq5f3dAH8DUIgh2vrWglC Q8ppN8w+iG5qxxf9jWmIHMo1CvDPbvOxhnMwyR8diZZyjp5xyjyvHNRMWTKwQW9LFiU/ gSbcQP3sGmRxVWdGv31lgTqD8gE2Pb6nWPn0I+NqETaL9Kxr/mVVWerlG3AsRF7I7sor nwO+bQbUBiv0SvHF03BPy3OD4QKEmdf6HTRjkdIYh+kvkAQl/ZvDqv5K3mljtyq03YbN 1R5cwosw1sYp5tFhJuvBarRyboa/16dttzCYqWnOp3E5Ov/6WSF5LXpuEsgiMP8rqj5U 64zQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533elM+16sj2MCVg5D5Fd7B6FZ8CI41UEgv0cU894B5O99kDMWEb S+7Plfr1Xn5rKAbyuPrgFU8uSc7aTLKrYxRmlWAYWS1yfA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyG7ri5Wri0natqvcY4VQi7BoPdk2MjQwlCq2ks+fjZ3k/aN/SoDvJKG0VjDdThBKqU14ceMh8dWpOYMp6OCxE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:8392:: with SMTP id p18mr1910099ejx.24.1595459562256; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Emad Omara Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:12:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: Richard Barnes Cc: Magnus Westerlund , "sframe@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000076a22b05ab0fe0b7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 23:12:46 -0000 --00000000000076a22b05ab0fe0b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Richard for the write up. I'd prefer to have a new WG if possible to track this work, as we discussed before the current draft needs a few more tweaks and we need a couple more documents in order to have a complete solution. Note that I only have 20 minutes on Monday, so not sure if this will be enough to have such discussion, but I can just do a quick overview for the draft and take the next steps discussions on the mailing list. What do you guys think? On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 9:52 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > Hey Magnus, > > Re signaling / formats: Every byte we add here is pure overhead, so I > think my opening bid would be to document all the parameters that the > senders and receivers need to agree on, but punt on actually > negotiating/signaling them as much as possible. > > Re replay: I don't think anything new is needed in the data format (w.r.t. > current draft), since there's already a counter. But it would be good to > recommend that implementations enforce an anti-replay window. > > Re signatures: I would be comfortable leaving signatures out of scope / > reserving for future work. While I agree it would be cool to have the > additional security property they would provide (per-sender > authentication), it's not clear to me that it needs to be part of the > initial version here. > > --Richard > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:10 AM Magnus Westerlund < > magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Some questions about this charter proposal. It seems to to say simply >> that the >> WG will define an encryption and authentication encapsulation of a media >> ADU. >> >> It will not take into consideration of how it can be used in any existing >> real- >> time media distrubution system, such as transported over RTP signalled by >> SIP, >> WebRTC, RTSP etc. Or for that matter how one sticks it in an ISO based >> media >> file format that dominates the streaming world, and also live streaming. >> >> Shouldn't at least this work decide if the content of a SFRAME will >> contain >> information to identify the format of the protected ADU, or if that is >> required >> to be done externally, or support both? >> >> I think this is part of a fundamental quesiton about the utility of the >> format >> and how one can use it. Having something internally also then raises the >> question of what namespace to use. >> >> Also how are other meta data that is relevant to prevent attack such as >> replay >> are this included? >> >> I did note that the referenced draft do discuss signatures also. Is this >> intended to be included or not. With SRTP with the exception of the TESLA >> cipher >> SRTP has not really had the property that a receiver can know which sender >> within a conference that actually sent the media, only that it was someone >> within the group that had the group key. As signature likely has >> additional >> requirement on the key-exchange protocol as it would need to provide >> assymetric >> keys for the signature verification for each participant rather than just >> group >> keying material I think if this intended to be included should be >> mentioned >> explicitly. >> >> Cheers >> >> Magnus >> >> >> On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 16:46 -0400, Richard Barnes wrote: >> > Hey all, >> > >> > I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda. Great idea, thanks to >> whomever >> > arranged that. >> > >> > In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when >> they've had >> > a proposed resolution in mind. Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are >> roughly: >> > >> > 0. Do nothing >> > 1. Existing working group >> > 2. AD sponsorship >> > 3. New WG >> > >> > My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for >> its own >> > small, focused working group. Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and >> sketched >> > a charter for the WG here: >> > >> > >> https://docs.google. >> .com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=sharing >> > >> > I think that captures everything I think is important to get done >> here.. But >> > please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is >> wrong. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > --Richard >> -- >> Cheers >> >> Magnus Westerlund >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Networks, Ericsson Research >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 >> <+46%2010%20714%2082%2087> >> Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 >> <+46%2073%20094%2090%2079> >> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> -- > Sframe mailing list > Sframe@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe > --00000000000076a22b05ab0fe0b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Richard for the write up. I'd prefer to have a = new WG if possible to track this work, as we discussed before the current d= raft needs a few more tweaks and we need a couple more documents=C2=A0 in o= rder to have a complete solution.

Note that I only have = 20 minutes on Monday, so not sure if this will be enough to have such discu= ssion, but I can just do a quick overview for the draft and take the next s= teps discussions on the mailing list. What do you guys think?
On Wed, = Jul 22, 2020 at 9:52 AM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Hey = Magnus,

Re signaling / formats: Every byte we add = here is pure overhead, so I think my opening bid would be to document all t= he parameters that the senders and receivers need to agree on, but punt on = actually negotiating/signaling them as much as possible.

=
Re replay: I don't think anything new is needed in the data = format (w.r.t. current draft), since there's already a counter.=C2=A0 B= ut it would be good to recommend that implementations enforce an anti-repla= y window.

Re signatures: I would be comfortable le= aving signatures out of scope / reserving for future work.=C2=A0 While I ag= ree it would be cool to have the additional security property they would pr= ovide (per-sender authentication), it's not clear to me that it needs t= o be part of the initial version here.

--Richa= rd

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:10 AM Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@eric= sson.com> wrote:
Hi,

Some questions about this charter proposal. It seems to to say simply that = the
WG will define an encryption and authentication encapsulation of a media AD= U.

It will not take into consideration of how it can be used in any existing r= eal-
time media distrubution system, such as transported over RTP signalled by S= IP,
WebRTC, RTSP etc. Or for that matter how one sticks it in an ISO based medi= a
file format that dominates the streaming world, and also live streaming.
Shouldn't at least this work decide if the content of a SFRAME will con= tain
information to identify the format of the protected ADU, or if that is requ= ired
to be done externally, or support both?

I think this is part of a fundamental quesiton about the utility of the for= mat
and how one can use it. Having something internally also then raises the question of what namespace to use.

Also how are other meta data that is relevant to prevent attack such as rep= lay
are this included?

I did note that the referenced draft do discuss signatures also. Is this intended to be included or not. With SRTP with the exception of the TESLA c= ipher
SRTP has not really had the property that a receiver can know which sender<= br> within a conference that actually sent the media, only that it was someone<= br> within the group that had the group key. As signature likely has additional=
requirement on the key-exchange protocol as it would need to provide assyme= tric
keys for the signature verification for each participant rather than just g= roup
keying material I think if this intended to be included should be mentioned=
explicitly.

Cheers

Magnus


On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 16:46 -0400, Richard Barnes wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda.=C2=A0 Great idea, thanks = to whomever
> arranged that.
>
> In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they= 've had
> a proposed resolution in mind.=C2=A0 Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes= are roughly:
>
> 0. Do nothing
> 1. Existing working group
> 2. AD sponsorship
> 3. New WG
>
> My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for = its own
> small, focused working group.=C2=A0 Toward that goal, I've gone ah= ead and sketched
> a charter for the WG here:
>
>
https= ://docs.google..com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSez= oa7o/edit?usp=3Dsharing
>
> I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here= ..=C2=A0 But
> please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is = wrong.
>
> Cheers,
> --Richard
--
Cheers

Magnus Westerlund


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Networks, Ericsson Research
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--00000000000076a22b05ab0fe0b7-- From nobody Wed Jul 22 16:40:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7581C3A09A9 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:40:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AaYruTWvaS2l for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x236.google.com (mail-oi1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96D773A09A5 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x236.google.com with SMTP id e4so3440221oib.1 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:40:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cosmosoftware-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UoZlnp6qwgwf/NrbqGtRym0+lZKrFd1QNmdmgPMY9wg=; b=px4yHwZhZUsf8ZOPmdgBg7RqwWtDJBFVWmGQiQaed7/jfLX4kdDxzUCAM+fH8iIA5C iOBkzmXp02QMU9YzAAEGR7zWtMJ7VRy87vV1kmqaUJk1DSzJQ5H7lxdMWq4zS2t7yBii 9ydBNzgLT6zjs0aLExhH+U+v5J+TNf8ClkhQBDe9BwE+1N8o1w8W2msJGWpg/X/xvJdS 1Xr/mQYkdv+iFmzbrFWK44pc7FXY+UUMe5aoXPpIPLfNZeNu4tyuovPdUnuwOsHSlEWB 26nVU2hFQSELZjKMge5aGkrf0e/8R+I+SDD3jasqZqTfcGAmb4vgm2+1FbxYTpj9qo4d EXDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UoZlnp6qwgwf/NrbqGtRym0+lZKrFd1QNmdmgPMY9wg=; b=E/cxwWGUqxXRqA1O2gOc+gmVo9bYHoVam8yXo/wB10IufJTDdHMPjp3kKKFNFtE/9n nGwXzF7nQAhuTRa3zEYHj/sLbe0+wIFFpcOoOc2vfRelC3hz/PIxHw3i9b0/4HMqg1KH Guu7y9jU5OiLciCZo5lGX75QDXKGSvMN2BBZKr049LGROrONugkYwTjpVp/k/XnTszde HQBU4NKlrKzf2iOPDsbfuv4VO1QA6AZSIQAQFIknA+Pg/rXSBRboGhXEnTwmiRQdZprf p/168IHTGouT/A3+YbtDuUhKcqhwcCcZMMTiry1GlNIoeufulKayvXNLvYML4USK4j7a cuuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531AV20ViE47SJNBAH9W/cBWqNnOq5Q1eCIxs40616+roeC2fQll rb9HgATeFwPSNjV7kjeW7St3yuTNjqVTy4zxgNvQXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCN2YgNpp62uqFtBfaLL6GKFyotdYsRCOq70KYZ6xu6NV7QNSDHza2Ojf7Cm8fji//bQuTSjrX55odRpdoy3I= X-Received: by 2002:aca:c30e:: with SMTP id t14mr1642500oif.95.1595461228625; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:40:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:40:17 +0800 Message-ID: To: Emad Omara Cc: Richard Barnes , Magnus Westerlund , "sframe@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c9173705ab104314" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] Intended DISPATCH outcome / charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 23:40:31 -0000 --000000000000c9173705ab104314 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" listing the documents you plan to produce, and adjusting the charter proposal would help i believe. On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:12 AM Emad Omara wrote: > Thanks Richard for the write up. I'd prefer to have a new WG if possible > to track this work, as we discussed before the current draft needs a few > more tweaks and we need a couple more documents in order to have a > complete solution. > > Note that I only have 20 minutes on Monday, so not sure if this will be > enough to have such discussion, but I can just do a quick overview for the > draft and take the next steps discussions on the mailing list. What do you > guys think? > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 9:52 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > >> Hey Magnus, >> >> Re signaling / formats: Every byte we add here is pure overhead, so I >> think my opening bid would be to document all the parameters that the >> senders and receivers need to agree on, but punt on actually >> negotiating/signaling them as much as possible. >> >> Re replay: I don't think anything new is needed in the data format >> (w.r.t. current draft), since there's already a counter. But it would be >> good to recommend that implementations enforce an anti-replay window. >> >> Re signatures: I would be comfortable leaving signatures out of scope / >> reserving for future work. While I agree it would be cool to have the >> additional security property they would provide (per-sender >> authentication), it's not clear to me that it needs to be part of the >> initial version here. >> >> --Richard >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:10 AM Magnus Westerlund < >> magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Some questions about this charter proposal. It seems to to say simply >>> that the >>> WG will define an encryption and authentication encapsulation of a media >>> ADU. >>> >>> It will not take into consideration of how it can be used in any >>> existing real- >>> time media distrubution system, such as transported over RTP signalled >>> by SIP, >>> WebRTC, RTSP etc. Or for that matter how one sticks it in an ISO based >>> media >>> file format that dominates the streaming world, and also live streaming. >>> >>> Shouldn't at least this work decide if the content of a SFRAME will >>> contain >>> information to identify the format of the protected ADU, or if that is >>> required >>> to be done externally, or support both? >>> >>> I think this is part of a fundamental quesiton about the utility of the >>> format >>> and how one can use it. Having something internally also then raises the >>> question of what namespace to use. >>> >>> Also how are other meta data that is relevant to prevent attack such as >>> replay >>> are this included? >>> >>> I did note that the referenced draft do discuss signatures also. Is this >>> intended to be included or not. With SRTP with the exception of the >>> TESLA cipher >>> SRTP has not really had the property that a receiver can know which >>> sender >>> within a conference that actually sent the media, only that it was >>> someone >>> within the group that had the group key. As signature likely has >>> additional >>> requirement on the key-exchange protocol as it would need to provide >>> assymetric >>> keys for the signature verification for each participant rather than >>> just group >>> keying material I think if this intended to be included should be >>> mentioned >>> explicitly. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Magnus >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 16:46 -0400, Richard Barnes wrote: >>> > Hey all, >>> > >>> > I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda. Great idea, thanks to >>> whomever >>> > arranged that. >>> > >>> > In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when >>> they've had >>> > a proposed resolution in mind. Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes are >>> roughly: >>> > >>> > 0. Do nothing >>> > 1. Existing working group >>> > 2. AD sponsorship >>> > 3. New WG >>> > >>> > My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for >>> its own >>> > small, focused working group. Toward that goal, I've gone ahead and >>> sketched >>> > a charter for the WG here: >>> > >>> > >>> https://docs.google. >>> .com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSezoa7o/edit?usp=sharing >>> > >>> > I think that captures everything I think is important to get done >>> here... But >>> > please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is >>> wrong. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > --Richard >>> -- >>> Cheers >>> >>> Magnus Westerlund >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Networks, Ericsson Research >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 >>> <+46%2010%20714%2082%2087> >>> Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 >>> <+46%2073%20094%2090%2079> >>> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> -- >> Sframe mailing list >> Sframe@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe >> > -- > Sframe mailing list > Sframe@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sframe > --000000000000c9173705ab104314 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
listing the documents you plan to produce, and adjusting t= he charter proposal=C2=A0would help i believe.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:12 = AM Emad Omara <emadomara=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Thanks Richard for the write up. I'd prefer to have a new = WG if possible to track this work, as we discussed before the current draft= needs a few more tweaks and we need a couple more documents=C2=A0 in order= to have a complete solution.

Note that I only have 20 m= inutes on Monday, so not sure if this will be enough to have such discussio= n, but I can just do a quick overview for the draft and take the next steps= discussions on the mailing list. What do you guys think?

On Wed, Jul = 22, 2020 at 9:52 AM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
Hey Magnus,

Re s= ignaling / formats: Every byte we add here is pure overhead, so I think my = opening bid would be to document all the parameters that the senders and re= ceivers need to agree on, but punt on actually negotiating/signaling them a= s much as possible.

Re replay: I don't thi= nk anything new is needed in the data format (w.r.t. current draft), since = there's already a counter.=C2=A0 But it would be good to recommend that= implementations enforce an anti-replay window.

Re= signatures: I would be comfortable leaving signatures out of scope / reser= ving for future work.=C2=A0 While I agree it would be cool to have the addi= tional security property they would provide (per-sender authentication), it= 's not clear to me that it needs to be part of the initial version here= .

--Richard

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:10 AM= Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

Some questions about this charter proposal. It seems to to say simply that = the
WG will define an encryption and authentication encapsulation of a media AD= U.

It will not take into consideration of how it can be used in any existing r= eal-
time media distrubution system, such as transported over RTP signalled by S= IP,
WebRTC, RTSP etc. Or for that matter how one sticks it in an ISO based medi= a
file format that dominates the streaming world, and also live streaming.
Shouldn't at least this work decide if the content of a SFRAME will con= tain
information to identify the format of the protected ADU, or if that is requ= ired
to be done externally, or support both?

I think this is part of a fundamental quesiton about the utility of the for= mat
and how one can use it. Having something internally also then raises the question of what namespace to use.

Also how are other meta data that is relevant to prevent attack such as rep= lay
are this included?

I did note that the referenced draft do discuss signatures also. Is this intended to be included or not. With SRTP with the exception of the TESLA c= ipher
SRTP has not really had the property that a receiver can know which sender<= br> within a conference that actually sent the media, only that it was someone<= br> within the group that had the group key. As signature likely has additional=
requirement on the key-exchange protocol as it would need to provide assyme= tric
keys for the signature verification for each participant rather than just g= roup
keying material I think if this intended to be included should be mentioned=
explicitly.

Cheers

Magnus


On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 16:46 -0400, Richard Barnes wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I see that SFrame is on the DISPATCH agenda.=C2=A0 Great idea, thanks = to whomever
> arranged that.
>
> In my experience, DISPATCH proposals have gone more smoothly when they= 've had
> a proposed resolution in mind.=C2=A0 Recall that the DISPATCH outcomes= are roughly:
>
> 0. Do nothing
> 1. Existing working group
> 2. AD sponsorship
> 3. New WG
>
> My inclination is that this work is probably about the right size for = its own
> small, focused working group.=C2=A0 Toward that goal, I've gone ah= ead and sketched
> a charter for the WG here:
>
>
https= ://docs.google..com/document/d/10rG8nAR0U6cBBPffzXnLaPPYL4uzxYViAvgiSez= oa7o/edit?usp=3Dsharing
>
> I think that captures everything I think is important to get done here= ...=C2=A0 But
> please feel free to comment there (or here) if you think the scope is = wrong.
>
> Cheers,
> --Richard
--
Cheers

Magnus Westerlund


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Networks, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| = Phone=C2=A0 +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Mobile = +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


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MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Emad Omara Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:34:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dispatch WG Cc: sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000b0f1405ab6fbc06" Archived-At: Subject: [Sframe] SFrame proposed WG charter X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:34:32 -0000 --0000000000000b0f1405ab6fbc06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi dispatch, Following up on the discussion we had this morning in IETF 108 dispatch session about SFrame , it seems there is enough interest to form a focused WG for this work. Richard Barnes proposed this charter for the WG. Please take a look and feel free to comment on the doc directly and propose other changes as well. Thanks Emad --0000000000000b0f1405ab6fbc06 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi dispatch,

Following up on the discus= sion we had this morning in IETF 108 dispatch session about SFrame, it seems there i= s enough interest to form a focused WG for this work.=C2=A0

<= /div>
Richard Barnes proposed this = charter for the WG. Please take a look and feel free to comment on the = doc directly and propose other changes as well.

Th= anks
Emad
--0000000000000b0f1405ab6fbc06-- From nobody Thu Jul 30 14:58:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90FD43A0E47; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:58:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.411 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.411 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.267, MAY_BE_FORGED=1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ywKuVsaY6_Yj; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DADD63A0E21; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bens-macbook.lan (mta-70-120-123-175.stx.rr.com [70.120.123.175] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 06ULw4Qa011935 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:58:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1596146286; bh=WbcxxDVmDSJQtk0ap0eZgenBJUtcI1U7c6glKL0G+O8=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=WtJAOLr8dnNGuo5cPSrxzA3M+3OmaDkoIsfuzBAAQJ65UFO8+CPIFaAI3ExBIGdAd JFLcJv615Hw7i2EoU3GM2usRgrn35VKel9TnA8aRMb4Ed+F3AimR4T0UJCFBFkVP44 NSc+U92gE63u2kpsycnUx24q3yMJDJd56+SZazfE= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host mta-70-120-123-175.stx.rr.com [70.120.123.175] (may be forged) claimed to be bens-macbook.lan From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9EDC629D-1798-4740-8BA1-1A258EB0B13C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:57:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: sframe@ietf.org, Emad Omara To: Dispatch WG References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Sframe] SFRame Next Steps (was Re: [dispatch] SFrame proposed WG charter) X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:58:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9EDC629D-1798-4740-8BA1-1A258EB0B13C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi everyone, We had a good discussion on SFrame in the dispatch meeting, and a lot of = interest in progressing it. The chairs would love it if we can get some = discussion of the proposed charter (below) now, while it=E2=80=99s still = fresh in people=E2=80=99s minds. If we don=E2=80=99t see feedback to the = contrary within a couple of weeks (let=E2=80=99s call that 14 Aug), we = will hand it over to the ART ADs. Thanks! Ben. > On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Emad Omara = wrote: >=20 > Hi dispatch, >=20 > Following up on the discussion we had this morning in IETF 108 = dispatch session about SFrame = , it seems there is = enough interest to form a focused WG for this work.=20 >=20 > Richard Barnes proposed this charter = for the WG. Please take a look and feel free = to comment on the doc directly and propose other changes as well. >=20 > Thanks > Emad > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch --Apple-Mail=_9EDC629D-1798-4740-8BA1-1A258EB0B13C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi everyone,

We had a good discussion on SFrame in the dispatch meeting, = and a lot of interest in progressing it. The chairs would love it if we = can get some discussion of the proposed charter (below) now, while = it=E2=80=99s still fresh in people=E2=80=99s minds. If we don=E2=80=99t = see feedback to the contrary within a couple of weeks (let=E2=80=99s = call that 14 Aug), we will hand it over to the ART ADs.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Emad Omara = <emadomara=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

Hi dispatch,

Following up on the discussion we had = this morning in IETF 108 dispatch session about SFrame, it seems there is enough interest to form a = focused WG for this work. 

Richard Barnes proposed this charter for the WG. = Please take a look and feel free to comment on the doc directly and = propose other changes as well.

Thanks
Emad
_______________________________________________
dispatch = mailing list
dispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch

= --Apple-Mail=_9EDC629D-1798-4740-8BA1-1A258EB0B13C-- From nobody Fri Jul 31 10:16:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sframe@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF82F3A0B90 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lO0hCl1DVtiK for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 602963A0AE7 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id r19so5935652qvw.11 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QNXDsfZ0b08WQh52gxPD3N6gX8FwWa/+EVyXxc4oCg0=; b=zia4uzpBciu+NXmJl7C7wj9dVT5x/4QlJyu2SIUkaMJo1aCGAw0apDhayQDYgvSJ/t WBsdX3ef3xtbTLDxGI4UalVcQzl7G1URKTl/4+GeGqXhxNpdJ1zTottGBn0XbJhtqYj/ 4a5AE8F4TyaAdC0RERtlNgs7d21fNMxUkqdxUe977hgJ9MPk/LfGDvp2GPy0Z+BS9cDX eBPU/YJt2wdbTX6zx9Q+ivuj2dQCFjJ8clYjoIvsF//EwQPkZIWeHvRVUuk3TkpzeGkz PnfNV7z1aDb6MLvtMjRVWT+JuARINRn2qOuk1bXcdMuc/gJ4s3oupZ7eYR3jdxwLIYdJ 4C2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QNXDsfZ0b08WQh52gxPD3N6gX8FwWa/+EVyXxc4oCg0=; b=qKcK/EfdiKbtvhASu4EtFohIpjW3NEId73qmnqPFwFupx+jCzgY6H/CELbV+A84wkR H30mb29elG+SxOzB9MnuR+iamqDinxbHPylEYJLm2BXe6jvbbUx3oywJuRrWNOJpI9OQ Tjme5HDUse12TpOq0LIj0zlZasyw26/Lfpme82UTc/C9imFFLpqlPv4e+PgcvcsADfHB bHwrzKj3BvDH0s1++PL0Qj9+tnGLEFPPYlWnCxAo5ctQq+346BgsXMmHUOahF51Yz/bp njhU7x3uKVIajbj8U2cRL/eqGKXDM22xKwln6VjjR6kwVh5X4UWl9m/zCpnxZthpOiFW jNJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530jXRa0BcRH8Y8suGSqXlMxJs8N2rQ9jx6zpD59mBJ59HzXnieW XtEHwE2wgNaeA/rhYKnxZHhw2jnrZZxOv2armUCw1g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwKp+iDjd23pfylcrvMDKgB19ehxAzbO+L52S0gh7wmwLnpa1v0iJ25JCaA0Pmh55sm/SmVONsC4tC+aQlcitg= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fc07:: with SMTP id z7mr5248645qvo.65.1596215774222; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:16:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Richard Barnes Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:15:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: Ben Campbell Cc: Dispatch WG , Emad Omara , sframe@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000353ef305abbff281" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sframe] [dispatch] SFRame Next Steps (was Re: SFrame proposed WG charter) X-BeenThere: sframe@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:16:18 -0000 --000000000000353ef305abbff281 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The link Emad posted should allow for comments, so please feel free to comment directly on the doc. Or you can reply with comments here and we'll get them incorporated. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 5:59 PM Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi everyone, > > We had a good discussion on SFrame in the dispatch meeting, and a lot of > interest in progressing it. The chairs would love it if we can get some > discussion of the proposed charter (below) now, while it=E2=80=99s still = fresh in > people=E2=80=99s minds. If we don=E2=80=99t see feedback to the contrary = within a couple of > weeks (let=E2=80=99s call that 14 Aug), we will hand it over to the ART A= Ds. > > Thanks! > > Ben. > > On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Emad Omara < > emadomara=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi dispatch, > > Following up on the discussion we had this morning in IETF 108 dispatch > session about SFrame , > it seems there is enough interest to form a focused WG for this work. > > Richard Barnes proposed this charter > > for the WG. Please take a look and feel free to comment on the doc direct= ly > and propose other changes as well. > > Thanks > Emad > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > > > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > --000000000000353ef305abbff281 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The link Emad posted should allow for comments, so pl= ease feel free to comment directly on the doc.

Or = you can reply with comments here and we'll get them incorporated.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 5:59 PM Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:
= Hi everyone,

We had a good discussion on SFrame in= the dispatch meeting, and a lot of interest in progressing it. The chairs = would love it if we can get some discussion of the proposed charter (below)= now, while it=E2=80=99s still fresh in people=E2=80=99s minds. If we don= =E2=80=99t see feedback to the contrary within a couple of weeks (let=E2=80= =99s call that 14 Aug), we will hand it over to the ART ADs.

=
Thanks!

Ben.

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
On Jul 27, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Emad Omara <= emadomara=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi dispatch,

Following up on the discussion= we had this morning in IETF 108 dispatch session about SFrame, it= seems there is enough interest to form a focused WG for this work.=C2=A0

Richard Barnes proposed this charter for the WG. Please take a look = and feel free to comment on the doc directly and propose other changes as w= ell.

Thanks
Emad
_______________________________________________
dispatch mailing listdispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch

_______________________________________________
dispatch mailing list
dispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch
--000000000000353ef305abbff281--