From nobody Fri Dec 1 03:44:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260DA128BA2; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 03:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9MSaUAnImmfO; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 03:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE120128B90; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 03:44:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=37223; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1512128663; x=1513338263; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=mhAUWpRsAcSqIICRpgLrBpWyN3a5TWRU5T6a3GbGyTs=; b=TRYim1WWW9/4x3kbZRExpbuTVa/TCdyWZOKqmqRA1v10mfqqAtB3w48G ibeg0iUhUxgDP9LFHejXjyatWeDX4pZpvnThvipVSHommp++3FwXRSw/T rD89iEXxjhbeJVIYrE9yiXvG7Vxtzq04/2hkQU4Nu3klJXNDrXZ+0gbgk c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.45,344,1508803200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="38883996" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Dec 2017 11:44:23 +0000 Received: from [10.82.177.212] ([10.82.177.212]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB1BiLwm014586; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:44:21 GMT Message-ID: <5A214094.4010105@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 03:44:20 -0800 From: "Ahmed Bashandy (bashandy)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alvaro Retana CC: SPRING WG , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls@ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux References: <74FB72FC-AD69-4EA3-ACA2-739168EE0A44@cisco.com> <50d87236662f49bb8a81308dff6abbf5@XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030106010600090000070805" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-10 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:44:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030106010600090000070805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Les replied to that on the thread "[spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-12" So Les and I are still working to resolve some overlap between architecture document and sr mpls document and we hope to have new versions soon. Ahmed On 11/30/2017 2:26 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: > Ahmed: > > Hi! > > It’s been almost a month, and I haven’t seen a reply from you. > > I will send the document back to the WG by the end of this week. > > Thanks! > > Alvaro. > > On November 2, 2017 at 6:49:10 PM, Alvaro Retana > (aretana.ietf@gmail.com ) wrote: > >> On October 30, 2017 at 2:12:18 PM, Ahmed Bashandy (bashandy) >> (bashandy@cisco.com ) wrote: >> >> Ahmed: >> >> Hi! How are you? >> >> ... >> >>> The main questions/concerns that I have related to this document is >>> not just for the authors, but for the Shepherd and the Chairs too. >>> >>> Q1. Why is this document on the Standards Track? From the >>> Introduction: “This drafts describes how Segment Routing operates on >>> top of the MPLS data plane.” Describes, yes. On the other hand, >>> the Shepherd’s write-up says that it “specifies the generic >>> functions of the architecture” – I don’t see a specification, just a >>> description. As such, I think this document should be Informational. >>> >>> #Ahmed: The new version of the draft specifies many things that are >>> applicable to instantiation of SR over MPLS >>> >> I’ll take your answer as confirming that the old version (-10) wasn’t >> really specifying anything. >> >> For this new version (-11), can you please be specific on what these >> “many things” are? >> >> I see some new Normative Language in the new 2.x sub-sections. I >> have some specific comments on that: >> >> Q1.A. Section 2.2. (SID Representation in the MPLS Forwarding Plane): >> >> The MCC MUST ensure that any label value corresponding to any SID it >> installs in the forwarding plane follows the following rules: >> >> o The label value MUST be unique within the router on which the MCC >> is running. i.e. the label MUST only be used to represent the SID. >> >> o The label value MUST NOT be identical to or within the range of >> any reserved label value or range [reserved-MPLS ], respectively. >> >> >> These seem to be new requirements for the MCCs. Given that the protocol extensions (and LDP) are defined (in Section 2) as MCCs, how are they supposed to follow these rules, specially the first one? As far as I can tell, the IGP extensions (for example) can carry Label/SID information from an advertising node, so I don’t know how a local MCC (remote to that advertising node, which is locally "installing forwarding entries in the MPLS data plane”) can guarantee what the label is used for (“only used to represent the SID”). Maybe I’m missing something and this is already specified somewhere else…?? >> The second rule is just what the MPLS Architecture already specifies, >> no nothing new, right? BTW, the link in the reserved-MPLS reference >> doesn’t work — a better reference might be rfc3032 or rfc7274. >> >> >> Q1.B. Section 2.3. (Segment Routing Global Block and Local Block): >> >> The following rules apply to the list of MPLS ranges representing the >> SRGB >> >> o The list of label ranges MUST only be used to instantiate global >> SIDs into the MPLS forwarding plane >> >> o Every range in the list of ranges specifying the SRGB MUST NOT >> cover or overlap with a reserved label value or range [reserved- >> MPLS], respectively. >> . . . >> Just like SRGB, the SRLB need not be a single >> contiguous range of label, except the SRGB MUST only be used to >> instantiate global SIDs into the MPLS forwarding plane. >> >> The first rule (and the text below them) points to the global nature >> of the SR *global* Block. The architecture document already says that >> "In SR-MPLS, SRGB is a local property of a node and identifies the >> set of local labels reserved for global segments.” Nothing new >> specified here. >> >> >> >> Q1.C. Section2.4. (Mapping a SID Index to an MPLS label) introduces an algorithm to calculate the label value. Note that the architecture document now includes an algorithm (in Section 3.1.2) as well — the algorithm in this document doesn’t look to be the same, but even if it is, it would be confusing to specify the same thing in two places. >> >> >> >> Q1.D. The rest of the sub-sections seem to rehash forwarding behaviors, which, because of the fact that the MPLS architecture is not changing, seem to add nothing interesting or important to this document. >> >> >> Having said all that, I still don’t see a clear justification for this document to be in the Standards Track. >> >>> >>> Q2. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) is the only >>> one with any real content…but there are only a couple of things in >>> it that are not in the Architecture document: the introduction of >>> the SRLB, and some words about the index – both of which should be >>> really explained in the Architecture document, and not here. I >>> wonder what the value of publishing this document really is. What >>> long-term archival value does it provide? >>> >>> #Ahmed: The long term plan is to move details of MPLS-specific >>> specifications to this document and keep the architecture document >>> more general >>> >> The “long term plan” ?? What do you mean? The architecture document >> is already in IETF Last Call — are you saying that both documents >> still require more changes and are not ready for publication? I >> really hope that is not what you mean. >> >> In any case, you did not answer my question about the value of the >> document as is. No worries, the intent is not to stop publication, >> but to understand whether there is something I’m missing and the >> relationship to the proposed Status. >> >> >>> Q3. I also have to wonder about the IPR declared for this document. >>> If most of the information here is already defined, described or >>> specified in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing, should the IPR >>> declaration apply to that document as well (or maybe instead of this >>> one)? It is not the IETF’s role (including the WG) to discuss >>> whether a piece of IPR is valid or not – I just want to make sure >>> the disclosures apply to the right document. >>> >>> #Ahmed: We will make sure that all IPR is declared >>> >> That was not my question! And declaring IPR at this point in time >> is very, very late (rfc6701). >> >> >>> I didn’t find a discussion on the list about any of these points. >>> >> I am concerned about all the text that has been added (which in my >> opinion doesn’t contribute much to the document), resulting in about >> a 70% increase the document length! I will wait for your answer to >> my points above before returning the document to the WG for a >> thorough review. >> >> >> I have some other specific comments below. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Alvaro. >> >> ... >> >>> P3. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) says that “a >>> controller-driven network…MAY use the control plane to discover the >>> available set of local SIDs”. The “MAY” implies that there is a >>> choice (i.e. it is optional) and that other discovery mechanisms >>> exist. What are those other choices? Note that earlier in this >>> section you already wrote that IGPs are used for flooding the >>> information. s/MAY/may >>> >>> #Ahmed: This document gives an example of a use of the SRLB. Listing >>> all possible uses of the SRLB is certainly not within the scope of >>> this document. >>> >> I’m not sure what your answer has to do with my comment…but giving >> examples is a good reason to *not* use Normative language. >> >> In any case, that piece of text was not changed from: >> >> In a controller-driven network, some controllers or >> applications MAY use the control plane to discover the available set >> of local SIDs on a particular router. In such cases, the SRLB is >> advertised in the control plane (e.g., using >> [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions ]). >> >> >> …to… >> >> In a controller-driven network, some controllers or >> applications MAY use the control plane to discover the available set >> of local SIDs on a particular router [I.D. filsfils-spring-segment- >> routing-policy]. >> >> The “MAY” is still there (which was the main point of the comment above), and you added a new reference to apparently illustrate the point that the control plane can be used "to discover the available set of local SIDs on a particular router”. Isn’t that already specified in the architecture document? Why do we need this new reference? >> >> >> ... >>> >>> P5. References. Please take a look at rfc8174 and update the >>> “Requirements Language” and associated references. >>> >>> #Ahmed: I agree. I modified the paragraph about requirements >>> language to conform to rfc8174 >>> >> You forgot to include the rfc8174 reference. >> >>> Nits >>> >>> N1. I think that the references to *-segment-routing-extensions are >>> superfluous. BTW, the fourth paragraph of the Introduction uses a >>> reference to *-segment-routing-extensions to point at ISIS/OSPF (the >>> protocols!). >>> >>> #Ahmed: I agree. Now we have clear references to each IGP extensions >>> separately >>> >> The point was that I think all references to the extensions are >> superfluous — not a request to add them. >> --------------030106010600090000070805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Les replied to that on the thread "[spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-12"

So Les and I are still working to resolve some overlap between architecture document and sr mpls document and we hope to have new versions soon.

Ahmed


On 11/30/2017 2:26 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote:
Ahmed:

Hi!

It’s been almost a month, and I haven’t seen a reply from you.

I will send the document back to the WG by the end of this week.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

On November 2, 2017 at 6:49:10 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana.ietf@gmail.com) wrote:

On October 30, 2017 at 2:12:18 PM, Ahmed Bashandy (bashandy) (bashandy@cisco.com ) wrote:

Ahmed:

Hi!  How are you?

...

The main questions/concerns that I have related to this document is not just for the authors, but for the Shepherd and the Chairs too. 

Q1. Why is this document on the Standards Track? From the Introduction: “This drafts describes how Segment Routing operates on top of the MPLS data plane.”  Describes, yes.  On the other hand, the Shepherd’s write-up says that it “specifies the generic functions of the architecture” – I don’t see a specification, just a description.  As such, I think this document should be Informational.

#Ahmed: The new version of the draft specifies many things that are applicable to instantiation of SR over MPLS

I’ll take your answer as confirming that the old version (-10) wasn’t really specifying anything.

For this new version (-11), can you please be specific on what these “many things” are?

I see some new Normative Language in the new 2.x sub-sections.  I have some specific comments on that:

Q1.A. Section 2.2. (SID Representation in the MPLS Forwarding Plane):

The MCC MUST ensure that any label value corresponding to any SID it
   installs in the forwarding plane follows the following rules:

   o  The label value MUST be unique within the router on which the MCC
      is running. i.e. the label MUST only be used to represent the SID.

   o  The label value MUST NOT be identical to or within the range of
      any reserved label value or range [reserved-MPLS], respectively.


These seem to be new requirements for the MCCs. Given that the protocol extensions (and LDP) are defined (in Section 2) as MCCs, how are they supposed to follow these rules, specially the first one? As far as I can tell, the IGP extensions (for example) can carry Label/SID information from an advertising node, so I don’t know how a local MCC (remote to that advertising node, which is locally "installing forwarding entries in the MPLS data plane”) can guarantee what the label is used for (“only used to represent the SID”). Maybe I’m missing something and this is already specified somewhere else…??
The second rule is just what the MPLS Architecture already specifies, no nothing new, right? BTW, the link in the reserved-MPLS reference doesn’t work — a better reference might be rfc3032 or rfc7274.


Q1.B. Section 2.3. (Segment Routing Global Block and Local Block):

The following rules apply to the list of MPLS ranges representing the
   SRGB

   o  The list of label ranges MUST only be used to instantiate global
      SIDs into the MPLS forwarding plane

   o  Every range in the list of ranges specifying the SRGB MUST NOT
      cover or overlap with a reserved label value or range [reserved-
      MPLS], respectively.
     . . .
   Just like SRGB, the SRLB need not be a single
   contiguous range of label, except the SRGB MUST only be used to
   instantiate global SIDs into the MPLS forwarding plane.
The first rule (and the text below them) points to the global nature of the SR *global* Block. The architecture document already says that "In SR-MPLS, SRGB is a local property of a node and identifies the set of local labels reserved for global segments.” Nothing new specified here. 
            

                                  
Q1.C. Section 2.4. (Mapping a SID Index to an MPLS label) introduces an algorithm to calculate the label value.  Note that the architecture document now includes an algorithm (in Section 3.1.2) as well — the algorithm in this document doesn’t look to be the same, but even if it is, it would be confusing to specify the same thing in two places.
                  
                  
                  
Q1.D. The rest of the sub-sections seem to rehash forwarding behaviors, which, because of the fact that the MPLS architecture is not changing, seem to add nothing interesting or important to this document.
                  


Having said all that, I still don’t see a clear justification for this document to be in the Standards Track.

Q2. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) is the only one with any real content…but there are only a couple of things in it that are not in the Architecture document: the introduction of the SRLB, and some words about the index – both of which should be really explained in the Architecture document, and not here.  I wonder what the value of publishing this document really is.  What long-term archival value does it provide?

#Ahmed: The long term plan is to move details of MPLS-specific specifications to this document and keep the architecture document more general

The “long term plan” ??  What do you mean?  The architecture document is already in IETF Last Call — are you saying that both documents still require more changes and are not ready for publication?  I really hope that is not what you mean. 

In any case, you did not answer my question about the value of the document as is.  No worries, the intent is not to stop publication, but to understand whether there is something I’m missing and the relationship to the proposed Status.


Q3. I also have to wonder about the IPR declared for this document.  If most of the information here is already defined, described or specified in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing, should the IPR declaration apply to that document as well (or maybe instead of this one)?  It is not the IETF’s role (including the WG) to discuss whether a piece of IPR is valid or not – I just want to make sure the disclosures apply to the right document.

#Ahmed: We will make sure that all IPR is declared

That was not my question!   And declaring IPR at this point in time is very, very late (rfc6701).


I didn’t find a discussion on the list about any of these points.

I am concerned about all the text that has been added (which in my opinion doesn’t contribute much to the document), resulting in about a 70% increase the document length!  I will wait for your answer to my points above before returning the document to the WG for a thorough review.


I have some other specific comments below.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

...

P3. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) says that “a controller-driven network…MAY use the control plane to discover the available set of local SIDs”.  The “MAY” implies that there is a choice (i.e. it is optional) and that other discovery mechanisms exist.  What are those other choices?  Note that earlier in this section you already wrote that IGPs are used for flooding the information.  s/MAY/may

#Ahmed: This document gives an example of a use of the SRLB. Listing all possible uses of the SRLB is certainly not within the scope of this document.

I’m not sure what your answer has to do with my comment…but giving examples is a good reason to *not* use Normative language.

In any case, that piece of text was not changed from:

In a controller-driven network, some controllers or
   applications MAY use the control plane to discover the available set
   of local SIDs on a particular router.  In such cases, the SRLB is
   advertised in the control plane (e.g., using
   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions]).

                
 …to…
                      

In a controller-driven network, some controllers or
   applications MAY use the control plane to discover the available set
   of local SIDs on a particular router [I.D. filsfils-spring-segment-
   routing-policy].


The “MAY” is still there (which was the main point of the comment above), and you added a new reference to apparently illustrate the point that the control plane can be used "to discover the available set of local SIDs on a particular router”.  Isn’t that already specified in the architecture document?  Why do we need this new reference?
                      
                      
...

P5. References.  Please take a look at rfc8174 and update the “Requirements Language” and associated references.

#Ahmed: I agree. I modified the paragraph about requirements language to conform to rfc8174

You forgot to include the rfc8174 reference.

Nits

 

N1. I think that the references to *-segment-routing-extensions are superfluous.  BTW, the fourth paragraph of the Introduction uses a reference to *-segment-routing-extensions to point at ISIS/OSPF (the protocols!).

#Ahmed: I agree. Now we have clear references to each IGP extensions separately

The point was that I think all references to the extensions are superfluous — not a request to add them.


--------------030106010600090000070805-- From nobody Mon Dec 4 12:09:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CA3128B8D; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 12:09:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZtCZNoa26hD; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 12:09:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x230.google.com (mail-lf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED62F128B37; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 12:09:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id l81so20600439lfl.6; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:09:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=NZGSwBd5BSlWOEaOA+6PzzxPLYAQhHVl1fHIbK9lnIo=; b=iV+O6j8gpKaAFHBeFTZywNOWxSM6RmlFvuUDuOf4yO3QrmCtdRLYJen7B4URRMouta LpMdN0PJXa6utawOTqNfxsQb1b3O8HjiLCWuI/77ZUKty0T8mO92cvAiQmNOg8mSZ8qz BUbLC86zFdYpdKhZCxSywwZSYTJvrBSnYu0gtQX5EbNiMt4IuXHeuALPhb4xiUWRGg/D MCPeBGq28orJFNNL2V/Mk3HlJEHKek/3gswcdhNz6inz2Tc+sOOomKZwT9LkPBkmQ8qo 7WpZE9Sdw5RjwuayujgKc8AsXnUj4JAogLD2IAaZisOduusGWGIIRaZ5QvcQ4LncfsFw Ny9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=NZGSwBd5BSlWOEaOA+6PzzxPLYAQhHVl1fHIbK9lnIo=; b=bxzIWx/n0B+HQAAh03nowG6cZhdFaMbX9d+LKAn6b+10mJ0P7lckA251WABs/ty322 bxt9p988/H3u11Hz7aQ96t438CFBZ2QlTPTv2rUz++1oM1UHPhJZySSYLlwqqL6+Cgaj 18BcKA9dz+r/vpBwmuCGDgnb3cm1REt3lCNjqK2RqEc0XC6xqroxuehMtKxgsJQxIYti tIPfPujKIaJ9ZeXGpzfogJ/PSeUWuI26ovI38gTj5gOi6ydmhonJu45kRV7rxSp4DTZn aFtnv5KB0a8+AuzgiJWoTbTt4qGXIRKpXCPw8V4ueKhuJKcSTUR+5MZwJAN3qcszDuXF KczA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5rvVS6I5F8vOf/MceEMV/GX+t9e5JhWNg71WEXX5YroQmajkpm TCKRaQ4K/I6t3o/rsM86GSge27MO/UhNpehm+6jF5w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZYNAGaW2Y8aWR7GBL5JaxIQdgPvq/BdVGM3sZYnhas/rhfMOdOYICOSYD9dX55h9zzZX8iLkgRvBVke7z6oNk= X-Received: by 10.46.23.144 with SMTP id 16mr10438209ljx.162.1512418174810; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:09:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.32.136 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 12:09:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <151241776450.6454.11244556255821161561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151241776450.6454.11244556255821161561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:09:34 -0600 Message-ID: To: "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , spring , "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c074a200fbfda055f894cfa" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 20:09:39 -0000 --94eb2c074a200fbfda055f894cfa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, the major part of the update is around new Non-FEC Path TLV registry to host Segment Routing MPLS Tunnel sub-TLV proposed in this document. We appreciate your questions, comments and consideration by BFD WG to adopt the draft. Regards, Greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 2:02 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03.txt To: Ilya Varlashkin , Gregory Mirsky < gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Ilya Varlashkin , Jeff Tantsura < jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Mach Chen (Guoyi)" A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-mirsky-spring-bfd Revision: 03 Title: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane Document date: 2017-12-04 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring- bfd-03.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring- bfd-03 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03 Abstract: Segment Routing architecture leverages the paradigm of source routing. It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) network without any change to the data plane. A segment is encoded as an MPLS label and an ordered list of segments is encoded as a stack of labels. Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) is expected to monitor any kind of paths between systems. This document defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap and control path in reverse direction of a BFD session on the Segment Routing static MPLS tunnel. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --94eb2c074a200fbfda055f894cfa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
the major part of the update is around new N= on-FEC Path TLV registry to host=C2=A0Segment Routing MPLS Tunnel sub-TLV p= roposed in this document.
We appreciate your questions, comments = and consideration by BFD WG to adopt the draft.

Re= gards,
Greg

---------- F= orwarded message ----------
From: <internet-dra= fts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 2:02 PM
Subject= : New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03.txt
To: Ilya V= arlashkin <ilya@nobulus.com>,= Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gm= ail.com>, Ilya Varlashkin <Il= ya@nobulus.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Mach Chen (Guoyi)" &l= t;mach.chen@huawei.com>
<= br>

A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-12-04
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-= bfd-03.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03<= /a>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-spring-bfd-03

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing architecture leverages the paradigm of source<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0routing.=C2=A0 It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label S= witching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(MPLS) network without any change to the data plane.=C2=A0 A s= egment is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encoded as an MPLS label and an ordered list of segments is en= coded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as a stack of labels.=C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0expected to monitor any kind of paths between systems.=C2=A0 T= his document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap and c= ontrol
=C2=A0 =C2=A0path in reverse direction of a BFD session on the Segment Rout= ing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0static MPLS tunnel.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


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Malis" Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 19:05:47 -0500 Message-ID: To: "" Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe.all@ietf.org, "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d30fc8bf9aa055fc8f3bd" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 00:06:20 -0000 --001a113d30fc8bf9aa055fc8f3bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07.txt Reviewer: Andy Malis Review Date: 7 December 2017 IETF LC End Date: 30 November 2017 Intended Status: Informational Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. Comments: This document very usefully demonstrates how Segment Routing can be used to provide BGP Egress Peer Engineering through the use of a centralized controller. It has been through a number of reviews, so it is overall in good shape for publication. Major Issues: No major issues found. Minor Issues: 1. This document is Informational, as it doesn't define any new protocol elements or contain any new actions for IANA. However, it does make use of RFC 2119 language. Alvaro Retana has already commented on this usage, and I would like to add that especially in an Informational document, the use of RFC 2119 language should be minimal and strictly used only to ensure interoperability (see section 6 of RFC 2119). In particular, I don't agree with the use of the uppercase MUST in the second paragraph of section 9, which is imposing a requirement on an operator. This paragraph is simply a rephrasing of section 9 in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe. I would much prefer a simple reference to that section in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe rather than a restatement of that text in this document. That will also ensure that if the text in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe should change (as that draft is still in progress), it would not require an update of this document to match. 2. I think that it would be useful to move section 7 higher in the document, perhaps as section 1.2. 3. I also note that the comments made by Alvaro in his email of November 3 have not yet been addressed. I agree with his comments, and request that they be addressed prior to publication. Nits: None. --001a113d30fc8bf9aa055fc8f3bd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

I have been selected = as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate= seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through= IETF last call and IESG review. The purpose of the review is to provide as= sistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directo= rate, please see =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of= the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with= any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve = them through discussion or by updating the draft.

= Document: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07.txt=C2=A0
<= div>Reviewer: Andy Malis=C2=A0
Review Date: 7 December 2017=C2=A0=
IETF LC End Date: 30 November 2017
Intended Status: In= formational

Summary:=C2=A0
I have some m= inor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before pu= blication.

Comments:=C2=A0
This document= very usefully demonstrates how Segment Routing can be used to provide BGP = Egress Peer Engineering through the use of a centralized controller.
<= div>
It has been through a number of reviews, so it is overal= l in good shape for publication.

Major Issues:=C2= =A0

No major issues found.

Minor Issues:=C2=A0

1. This document is Informat= ional, as it doesn't define any new protocol elements or contain any ne= w actions for IANA. However, it does make use of RFC 2119 language. Alvaro = Retana has already commented on this usage, and I would like to add that es= pecially in an Informational document, the use of RFC 2119 language should = be minimal and strictly used only to ensure interoperability (see section 6= of RFC 2119).=C2=A0

In particular, I don't ag= ree with the use of the uppercase MUST in the second paragraph of section 9= , which is imposing a requirement on an operator. This paragraph is simply = a rephrasing of section 9 in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe. I wo= uld much prefer a simple reference to that section in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-= segment-routing-epe rather than a restatement of that text in this document= . That will also ensure that if the text in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-ro= uting-epe should change (as that draft is still in progress), it would not = require an update of this document to match.

2. I = think that it would be useful to move section 7 higher in the document, per= haps as section 1.2.

3. I also note that the comme= nts made by Alvaro in his email of November 3 have not yet been addressed. = I agree with his comments, and request that they be addressed prior to publ= ication.

Nits:=C2=A0

None= .

--001a113d30fc8bf9aa055fc8f3bd-- From nobody Fri Dec 8 05:17:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A95126DFF; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 05:17:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fAQZLw9yGn-q; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 05:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 543A2124D68; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 05:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (unknown [119.94.166.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 167CE180157E; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 14:17:11 +0100 (CET) From: Loa Andersson To: "mpls@ietf.org" Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label@ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Message-ID: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 21:17:06 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 13:17:18 -0000 Working Group, This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft- ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label. Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Since this is a second wglc on this document, the current document address all comments all comments from the previous wglc, but it is more than 18 months since the previous wqglc, we have decided to do a full two week call. There are no IPRs disclosed against draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy- label. All the authors and contributors have stated on the working group mailing list that they are not aware of any other IPRs that relates to this document. This working group last call ends December 22, 2017. This wglc is copied to the SPRING wg mailing list, please address all comments to mpls@ietf.org. /Loa MPLS wg co-chair -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Fri Dec 8 12:33:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E84127873; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 12:33:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NcxrdyTegQRK; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 12:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55A96126C83; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 12:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id o64so7965443oia.9; Fri, 08 Dec 2017 12:33:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FPQVEWqbnthyebiYKAotE2QKzqexOrhAGrJM6fMazWw=; b=L+PcF9rUkli4G1WWJlj3z8ShjISYx9pvpejvW+Lu5Jg2S7H4UNjhWOx8XNcvKSQrV4 eaqx2IZvQbJtubac3h9Z+xOxWlHkk7+cij4ru3FEl5D4eF+5n2vEJAuPo7RIkqbrRy5Y FTtGJ4HORDPpN0gQPrBDwUuAJZ2/KxTQVAEoOH6HJ90QRa0mf6Jkenle3SOAnQ/TcvLK gz0QM6PvxWq+h1nVY5SfL4VgRSqkqAfK8cDY3M5EyvU1tOo+obMMOLAaM+0UPG3tcwb9 a256UF3psr5qbMjX80qsML3SqDp+mh+BqdNwK7t+r+JuihdjnQ+ha+9sXXvnP/lufabg HPXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FPQVEWqbnthyebiYKAotE2QKzqexOrhAGrJM6fMazWw=; b=AEsypBg0ZlSWy81vZksKmjrX/gdZ0rOIi/bOoHkmVMcngPLStSJLI07ZxL9wbN5gnu hNtqGlwVZwo5jau6fwlj8lmtyOi+e18z1lMvXGAlGW3/e8muM0eT4rzanBZZc19Qzon2 LciLO09R/oNz4kR2DNDkQe9jp2tbKI+nku3+xL/YQnAZx8kSgW5HMfoagaABAwImJhGz t/0eh4Ytqvn5st/spTZyVvPiniHBhTSyDOr+mQAYt0UJ8tRLcYRZvBlwV+K9GX7WO0aS gtoweNoVHSXgiuoBBto05Pxj6xpg6hG6qcAGtgYrbdhObVfrUUHtVSSWImkkMb0A46mw fuVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4/7gwAVnA1iylGIif/om+9i+m7r/tlkQ+sylT8vF6GAmssnPpe mfiMrn2FaPhSTTNWp3rRDC75dA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbTXzMrvnmQ091j+8Tqu+9lTaGfIMUvTKUMCJ8MvNpxBACApGVf/uuQwRHiSDZRzxDbQiG4vA== X-Received: by 10.202.4.209 with SMTP id 200mr24151238oie.43.1512765228598; Fri, 08 Dec 2017 12:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [100.65.101.83] ([206.16.17.196]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t37sm3854012oti.24.2017.12.08.12.33.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Dec 2017 12:33:48 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 12:33:45 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , Message-ID: <3784196D-82A4-4061-943D-8BD799943BFB@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label References: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 20:33:51 -0000 Loa, Support as co-author. Thanks! Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: mpls on behalf of Loa Andersson Date: Friday, December 8, 2017 at 05:17 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Cc: "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , Subject: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label Working Group, This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft- ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label. Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Since this is a second wglc on this document, the current document address all comments all comments from the previous wglc, but it is more than 18 months since the previous wqglc, we have decided to do a full two week call. There are no IPRs disclosed against draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy- label. All the authors and contributors have stated on the working group mailing list that they are not aware of any other IPRs that relates to this document. This working group last call ends December 22, 2017. This wglc is copied to the SPRING wg mailing list, please address all comments to mpls@ietf.org. /Loa MPLS wg co-chair -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Fri Dec 8 23:35:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25C61124205; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 23:35:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4F3F66B7CF707B4CBAC0EDA13B44A46C@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2017 13:03:39 -0000 +1 Andrew Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 9, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Support - this is an important document that captures the extensive > discussion on the topic. > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 > On 12/9/17, 2:35 AM, "mpls on behalf of Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - > BE/Antwerp)" > wrote: >=20 >> Support as co-author >>=20 >> On 08/12/2017, 21:33, "mpls on behalf of Jeff Tantsura" >> wrote: >>=20 >> Loa, >>=20 >> Support as co-author. >> Thanks! >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Jeff >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mpls on behalf of Loa Andersson >> >> Date: Friday, December 8, 2017 at 05:17 >> To: "mpls@ietf.org" >> Cc: "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" >> , >> Subject: [mpls] working group last call on >> draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label >>=20 >> Working Group, >>=20 >> This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft- >> ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label. >>=20 >> Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list >> (mpls@ietf.org). >>=20 >> Since this is a second wglc on this document, the current document >> address all comments all comments from the previous wglc, but it >> is >> more than 18 months since the previous wqglc, we have decided to >> do >> a full two week call. >>=20 >> There are no IPRs disclosed against >> draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy- >> label. >>=20 >> All the authors and contributors have stated on the working group >> mailing list that they are not aware of any other IPRs that >> relates >> to this document. >>=20 >> This working group last call ends December 22, 2017. >>=20 >> This wglc is copied to the SPRING wg mailing list, please address >> all >> comments to mpls@ietf.org. >>=20 >>=20 >> /Loa >> MPLS wg co-chair >> --=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu >> Senior MPLS Expert >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Sat Dec 9 08:31:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32ED1243F6; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 08:37:23 -0000 U3VwcG9ydC4gVGhpcyBpcyBhbiBpbXBvcnRhbnQgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQoNClRoeA0KSm9yZ2UNCg0K 77u/T24gMTIvOC8xNywgNToxNyBQTSwgIm1wbHMgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIExvYSBBbmRlcnNzb24i IDxtcGxzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGxvYUBwaS5udT4gd3JvdGU6DQoN CiAgICBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwLA0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoaXMgaXMgdG8gaW5pdGlhdGUgYSB0d28g d2VlayB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBvbiBkcmFmdC0NCiAgICBpZXRmLW1wbHMtc3By aW5nLWVudHJvcHktbGFiZWwuDQogICAgDQogICAgUGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cyB0 byB0aGUgbXBscyB3ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgKG1wbHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcpLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFNp bmNlIHRoaXMgaXMgYSBzZWNvbmQgd2dsYyBvbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50LCB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBk b2N1bWVudA0KICAgIGFkZHJlc3MgYWxsIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFsbCBjb21tZW50cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBw cmV2aW91cyB3Z2xjLCBidXQgaXQgaXMNCiAgICBtb3JlIHRoYW4gMTggbW9udGhzIHNpbmNlIHRo ZSBwcmV2aW91cyB3cWdsYywgd2UgaGF2ZSBkZWNpZGVkIHRvIGRvDQogICAgYSBmdWxsIHR3byB3 ZWVrIGNhbGwuDQogICAgDQogICAgVGhlcmUgYXJlIG5vIElQUnMgZGlzY2xvc2VkIGFnYWluc3Qg ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1tcGxzLXNwcmluZy1lbnRyb3B5LQ0KICAgIGxhYmVsLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEFs bCB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBhbmQgY29udHJpYnV0b3JzIGhhdmUgc3RhdGVkIG9uIHRoZSB3b3JraW5n IGdyb3VwDQogICAgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IHRoYXQgdGhleSBhcmUgbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBv dGhlciBJUFJzIHRoYXQgcmVsYXRlcw0KICAgIHRvIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQogICAgDQogICAg VGhpcyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBlbmRzIERlY2VtYmVyIDIyLCAyMDE3Lg0KICAg IA0KICAgIFRoaXMgd2dsYyBpcyBjb3BpZWQgdG8gdGhlIFNQUklORyB3ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Qs IHBsZWFzZSBhZGRyZXNzIGFsbA0KICAgIGNvbW1lbnRzIHRvIG1wbHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQogICAg DQogICAgDQogICAgL0xvYQ0KICAgIE1QTFMgd2cgY28tY2hhaXINCiAgICAtLSANCiAgICANCiAg ICANCiAgICBMb2EgQW5kZXJzc29uICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZW1haWw6IGxvYUBw aS5udQ0KICAgIFNlbmlvciBNUExTIEV4cGVydA0KICAgIEh1YXdlaSBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgKGNv bnN1bHRhbnQpICAgICBwaG9uZTogKzQ2IDczOSA4MSAyMSA2NA0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgbXBscyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCiAgICBtcGxzQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9tcGxzDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Sun Dec 10 00:49:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B968F124BAC for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:48:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nuagenetworks-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v_jgWuIJA6Ih for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com (mail-oi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 199C0124E15 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id r63so9765340oia.6 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:48:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nuagenetworks-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aUXfqmhf7A0hmXKuRKnLlvHMgNKRo2ZjD2FCGu/iHew=; b=QXcJdG+YLrjrI7W/IdQRsRdqCU+IOlifhJNsNjDp3NBqGzf+8Y4GOJXhg3zZOfHtFX cTqfSHjS9wYuY0QN+eMDbj+rJJ7a9dKxI3EMClVcDqF5Do/hQCNvszHSFFgUoqvGB+Zb 93yo31Hkuz6KM8aZbYe7YS7YxuIrMmxhSps0/ThdO93Yku0YQo8N9UwNt0S0z1zC3anK R73E+WhWMq/wxRLdiLAsW6t7GxTpXW/Qr16CHs+f5s6pcF6tsxL4On1VpztHPR5S7BI0 mfcQNnwas/yCELzqNS9UQYTI3pdkCS6jPR3XlcvfYldxNL80A3UZrf7BRLPAA3Jlvl2W S5/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aUXfqmhf7A0hmXKuRKnLlvHMgNKRo2ZjD2FCGu/iHew=; b=BP5suv4/sy3Fq1NYIMisb4t8eryolpDzN3GYQnV+NO6vgw8tS3gaAiNrhP0hj0XNNZ gZDCxEc/JCcLao+O0nIwyehgxN7T6zgo5gQvVhoijDcEpgjwiwiBBp4Ds3JktayumjS0 jGtlPhlUAUqHM4SaHP2elAsL6tzCxOrLmfpepMJJaTLwvRrAVa/G+gzY/lgYZRxBouFT Kv5JX3a4UhqxoGejU4SXfLJsAbmatgn3vIrIJaEyS9lowJW3NGOY1k4kV9RxGDw13rEN 6tbxAV9w4HLhxbb9JqCQm5JXECV2Kc2MceSsLz2ZHGaVkUTOWRsUxxCgY8DHe54dgC94 5k1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4fVbv0ra5/88B+jlmaZuezIJVqFSHv7Yto8QVJnjFz0BvJTXx2 zXu6JKqM0yE+3o5G6XVK6dr0kKJpMzU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaNz1zZo8yXd/IhDWqXv99nqpDiDqGhMz7rtghyUIpIj0IAkL/lWXIj52r7LicwQyZjLJw2mQ== X-Received: by 10.202.208.153 with SMTP id j25mr26424413oiy.19.1512895732358; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:100c:b20f:75ce:392f:ebd:aa1d:6c14? ([2600:100c:b20f:75ce:392f:ebd:aa1d:6c14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g3sm5795623otc.25.2017.12.10.00.48.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Dec 2017 00:48:51 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Nabeel Cocker X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15B202) In-Reply-To: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 02:48:50 -0600 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <52308E04-CE4D-45B3-8A06-97415A924EA0@nuagenetworks.net> References: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> To: Loa Andersson Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 08:48:57 -0000 Support. Regards, Nabeel > On Dec 8, 2017, at 7:17 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > > Working Group, > > This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft- > ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label. > > Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > > Since this is a second wglc on this document, the current document > address all comments all comments from the previous wglc, but it is > more than 18 months since the previous wqglc, we have decided to do > a full two week call. > > There are no IPRs disclosed against draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy- > label. > > All the authors and contributors have stated on the working group > mailing list that they are not aware of any other IPRs that relates > to this document. > > This working group last call ends December 22, 2017. > > This wglc is copied to the SPRING wg mailing list, please address all > comments to mpls@ietf.org. > > > /Loa > MPLS wg co-chair > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Mon Dec 11 23:52:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3494C12941C; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:52:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Takeshi Takahashi To: Cc: spring@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151306513713.20438.3742368041842215985@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:52:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 07:52:17 -0000 Reviewer: Takeshi Takahashi Review result: Has Nits The issues I have here are very minor. The security consideration section became better than the 06 version that I have reviewed before, but I hope the editors could be kind enough to help reader understand security situation better. Minor comments: Regarding this sentence "but it can be used to compromse security in the cse of external IP domains", what do you mean by "compromise security"? It would be nice if you could describe what kind of security compromise may happen in order for the readers to understand the threats more vividly. Editorial comments: 1. LDP had better be spelled out. 2. "skilled personal": could it be "skilled personnel"? 3. This sentence "As it is necessary to know that the information is stale is order to follow the instruction, as is the case with for example convergence events that may be ongoing at the time of diagnostic measurement." is not easy to understand ofr me. I see some typo in this sentence as well. From nobody Tue Dec 12 01:15:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73BC4127B60; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:15:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tqQAJ-VBgcEi; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 900D3127866; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id D0F4564E2E764; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:15:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:15:23 +0000 Received: from DGGEML510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.54]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:15:19 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHTcCbqzelJldxZtkipC8cBsRFW6KM/ct/Q Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:15:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <7a3329e1-fd00-7af0-f951-09916fcaa28a@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.194.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:15:28 -0000 Hi Loa, The draft is useful, support to move it forward. Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 9:17 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: spring@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy= - > label@ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy= -label >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to initiate a two week working group last call on draft- ietf-mpl= s-spring- > entropy-label. >=20 > Please send your comments to the mpls wg mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). >=20 > Since this is a second wglc on this document, the current document addres= s all > comments all comments from the previous wglc, but it is more than 18 mont= hs > since the previous wqglc, we have decided to do a full two week call. >=20 > There are no IPRs disclosed against draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy- label= . >=20 > All the authors and contributors have stated on the working group mailing= list > that they are not aware of any other IPRs that relates to this document. >=20 > This working group last call ends December 22, 2017. >=20 > This wglc is copied to the SPRING wg mailing list, please address all com= ments > to mpls@ietf.org. >=20 >=20 > /Loa > MPLS wg co-chair > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From nobody Tue Dec 12 06:19:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734C312943F; 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Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:45:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151312590704.30101.2997347222004872263.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:45:07 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 00:45:07 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As a reminder, one of the majors network operator requirements is path disjointness capability. Network operators have deployed Nit: major A first protection strategy consists in excluding any local repair but instead use end-to-end path protection where each SPRING path is protected by a second disjoint SPRING path. In this case local Nits: "consists of" and "instead uses" path. As a requirement, the two paths MUST be disjoint in their links, nodes or shared risk link groups (SRLGs). Do you mean to say that this fulfills that requirement? Or is this an additional requirement that isn't provided by the topology given. o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to compute paths that MUST NOT be protected by local repair techniques (as illustrated in the example of paths T1 and T2). This MUST NOT is kind of unclear. Are you computing paths that will not otherwise be protected? Are you computing paths in such a way that they will not be protected? This section describes two alternatives providing local protection without requiring operator management, namely bypass protection and These are alternative strategies to the one described in S 2? For example, a demand from A to Z, transported over the shortest paths provided by the SPRING architecture, benefits from management- "demand"? I would have assumed you meant "packet" or "datagram" here, but maybe I am misreading. destination Z. Upon local detection of the failure, the traffic is repaired over the backup path in sub-50 milliseconds. When primary path comes back up, the operator either allows for an automated Nit: "When the primary" an automated reversion of the traffic onto the primary path or selects an operator-driven reversion. Why would you want the mechanism in S 3.1 rather than S 3.2? of their topologies. Detecting microloops can be done during topology computation (e.g.: SPF computation) and therefore microloops-avoidance techniques may be applied. An example of such Nit: "e.g., SPF" network state. Traditionally, the lack of packet steering capability made difficult to apply efficient solutions to microloops. A SPRING enabled router could take advantage of the increased packet steering Nit: "made it difficult" From nobody Tue Dec 12 17:53:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C182D129411; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:53:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Takeshi Takahashi To: Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc.all@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151312999074.30209.6653698742560230397@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:53:10 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 01:53:11 -0000 Reviewer: Takeshi Takahashi Review result: Ready The security consideration section is concise, but it well represents its security status by saying "The solution proposed in this document does not introduce any additional security concerns from what expressed in [RFC7938] and [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid]". From nobody Wed Dec 13 03:50:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA3012704A; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:50:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benoit Claise To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151316581858.30031.2239162146662252569.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:50:18 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:50:18 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Some redundancy in the intro first two paragraphs.: This document reviews various use cases for the protection of services in a SPRING network. The terminology used hereafter is in line with [RFC5286] and [RFC5714]. This document reviews various use cases for the protection of services in a SPRING network. From nobody Wed Dec 13 05:46:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4986C120227; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:46:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CvLE7GdY2jyU; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87BAD124B09; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:46:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=18960; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513172774; x=1514382374; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=J7jhIXwJtnEv9keJW/q6ecHnq7y7sCf0BRWgRFOWA9E=; b=IpXu1vWsQSZSPh2ankQ71/P76NwrkTUqAUBi+TA7JcrewtYntICkndKN +qJ3d4/1gnm8qUbbe+AsdPB0YWIkM4FkmmF7erGCb5zQ51JqBsMdvEPwA piziSeXlL9LVYa2mdxpJ8UxqEC55GlQQbGE49bQb4YVA38kkaTqLhYaHN U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BeAgDqLjFa/5JdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM+gVonB4N7mSaTQYVhggEKhTsCGoR5QhUBAQEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?kBiNIDhACAQg/AwICAjAUEQIEDgWJRGSoc4InilwBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEdg2CCC4FWgWkpgXSBDoMvgTYSgzsxgjIFikqPCIlNAotqiTuTaJY5AhE?= =?us-ascii?q?ZAYE6ATUjgU5vFWQBgX6EVXiHfoEygRUBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.45,397,1508803200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="43529184" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Dec 2017 13:45:54 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-019.cisco.com (xch-rtp-019.cisco.com [64.101.220.159]) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBDDjrbn001951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:45:54 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-019.cisco.com (64.101.220.159) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 08:45:53 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 08:45:53 -0500 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Takeshi Takahashi CC: "secdir@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09 Thread-Index: AQHTcx4k3EKWUeYSf0GdAt9DucmAw6NBnvcA Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:45:52 +0000 Message-ID: <2D6492DA-25BD-43A6-ABBB-76006F632055@cisco.com> References: <151306513713.20438.3742368041842215985@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151306513713.20438.3742368041842215985@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.116.133] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D6492DA25BD43A6ABBB76006F632055ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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dCBiZSAmcXVvdDtza2lsbGVkIHBlcnNvbm5lbCZxdW90Oz88YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQozLiBUaGlz IHNlbnRlbmNlICZxdW90O0FzIGl0IGlzIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSB0byBrbm93IHRoYXQgdGhlIGluZm9y bWF0aW9uIGlzPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7c3RhbGUgaXMgb3JkZXIgdG8gZm9s bG93IHRoZSBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiwgYXMgaXMgdGhlIGNhc2Ugd2l0aCBmb3I8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+ DQombmJzcDsmbmJzcDtleGFtcGxlIGNvbnZlcmdlbmNlIGV2ZW50cyB0aGF0IG1heSBiZSBvbmdv aW5nIGF0IHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7ZGlhZ25vc3RpYyBt ZWFzdXJlbWVudC4mcXVvdDsgaXMgbm90IGVhc3kgdG8gdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBvZnIgbWUuIEkgc2Vl IHNvbWUgdHlwbzxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCiZuYnNwOyZuYnNwO2luIHRoaXMgc2VudGVuY2UgYXMg d2VsbC48YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwv Ym9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_2D6492DA25BD43A6ABBB76006F632055ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Dec 13 09:36:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E08126DFF; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:35:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151318655848.30126.12687786142370669333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:35:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:35:58 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I *think* I found a minor issue. Section 5 contains the following text: Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not last long enough and in general they are noticed during the time it takes for the network to converge. I'm assuming this is intended to say "...are not noticed..."? From nobody Wed Dec 13 09:58:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4FC912704B; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:58:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:58:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:58:42 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to everyone who put in work on this document. I do note that the list of authors is over the five-author recommended limit. I checked both the ballot and the shepherd write-up, and was a little surprised not to find an explanation of why this document is exceptional in this regard. I have one major comment and a handful of editorial comments. The major comment regards the treatment of trust assumptions in the security section. The SR-MPLS section asserts: "[T]here is an assumed trust model such that any node imposing a label stack on a packet is assumed to be allowed to do so"; the SRv6 section has a similar assertion: "[T]here is an assumed trust model such that any node adding an SRH to the packet is assumed to be allowed to do so." I leave it to the security area directors to speak to whether it is okay in 2017 to publish documents that forego integrity protection of source routing information based on assumptions of perfectly secured networks. Irrespective of the answer to that question, I'm perplexed that the security section does not go into detail about the consequences that arise when these assumptions are violated. I think a clear description of these consequences is relevant and necessary to include, as it informs the level of care that is appropriate for both implementation and deployment of these protocols. I want to be clear that I consider this a major flaw in the document, and am on the fence regarding whether it should constitute a blocking DISCUSS. I would support anyone else in issuing a DISCUSS on this topic. Editorial comments follow. Section 2 contains the following text: Active Segment: the segment that MUST be used by the receiving router to process the packet. I really don't think you want to use normative language in the terminology section. I strongly recommend moving this requirement down to a section that bears more directly on implementation. Section 3.4.2: These extensions are defined in IGP SR extensions documents. Please add a citation to the relevant documents. Section 3.5: ABRs G and J will propagate the prefix and its SIDs into the backbone area by creating a new instance of the prefix according to normal inter-area/level IGP propagation rules. Please expand the term "ABR" on first use. From nobody Wed Dec 13 10:34:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF03127286; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:34:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mTKgVPTpcWSm; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x243.google.com (mail-oi0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA19F12704B; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x243.google.com with SMTP id s9so2215012oie.5; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:34:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=V2AngeTdfkX8qiiqpyGpSc7H4ZzaH6jlGBtwo73YHZo=; b=fVG/klWeHl8tUQgw1WRRt8/ux8iqexG2Cnu7O3XBv8CA+YE4M4lQSlHUGBllAmGshE T4oc9Df8wAIXG4gf+iv3BoCfabWLFgP6vlp173uxSjS98f1bGysCfxqZ5quEna+ZSbKd 1WiZRiT2Aq0eYzqVebv4sj9mDwsp9CRVPUCAPxKkeAWCr+c4HBYS+2y5qjVDe6ZkcP2+ XswNRUdgf1MEgFMgjxyiIvr3Yfyc8w/JhkE+uuKbeUl/3m/My0irtkv9BUUHzLJoQYns s77BNfLOQW+8JNAOOPg559tWx2ImSjloqWXjWstQdgKoUce4338J8LZH98iwRgrX4ATu VP9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=V2AngeTdfkX8qiiqpyGpSc7H4ZzaH6jlGBtwo73YHZo=; b=uYJo0N9ilnSZ7pOJKOSCwasIxNeYuAWkNoXWIFuxxU0sK9If+/G9AJeIaXlJ/NKp6B nOeIq0OgJc3YoKYLuzNygeGHFCjjzX5OvmSLBOAbo88FTqmrfab1jZjGs1Hz49I73sHC c1TqlsEuDACXxbqGrPxLSkUiWcPW45JeYRN8YKKZ/rgWKfH9jWrQbAaqv9thgrLSk60g 2Dnps6aO2TcKZDlotGsIRxQ9OAzKIylan0CgNL4xFb27GXnwqq3Sx+o5C183+54DYC/K 1azebNNv9jV2tnIpgvTG3pwyuHUj0DCvdh1LOjUTMvy5XVkQIZCz4uR8AUFjkllE+DUM bW8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mL0Lkam4nVEj3jfQ74/Z1jgxrItmtEPUIZVRL35Ll5fCXFlNEeZ P/KLitLGKD66oYOlPEtOENtg8vEc6M1uDvZJBUY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBoscms7au4pkVhQj8qm5HYv3tICLtdLeeHKtz1CapZuWBeFUXBOg3Ua+XSwGxRsB/WontfJA61GoF7qelr410b8= X-Received: by 10.202.117.141 with SMTP id q135mr2625941oic.109.1513190096201; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:34:55 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Airmail (467) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:34:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: Adam Roach , The IESG Cc: spring@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c17984296b8205603d06b2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:34:59 -0000 --001a11c17984296b8205603d06b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On December 13, 2017 at 9:58:42 AM, Adam Roach (adam@nostrum.com) wrote: Adam: Hi! Thanks to everyone who put in work on this document. I do note that the list of authors is over the five-author recommended limit. I checked both the ballot and the shepherd write-up, and was a little surprised not to find an explanation of why this document is exceptional in this regard. This document, and most of the spring-related ones, has really been a group effort with important contributions from a significant number of people. You will notice that in most cases I have exercised my discretion in allowing more than 5 authors in the front page, while many contributors have been moved to their own section, precisely because of the level and significance of the contributions. Thanks! Alvaro. --001a11c17984296b8205603d06b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On December 13, 2017 at 9:58:42 AM, Adam Roach (<= a href=3D"mailto:adam@nostrum.com">adam@nostrum.com) wrote:

Adam:

Hi!

Thanks to everyone w= ho put in work on this document. I do note that the list of=C2=A0
authors is over the five-auth= or recommended limit. I checked both the ballot=C2=A0
and the shepherd write-up, and was a litt= le surprised not to find an=C2=A0
explanation of why this document is exceptional in this regar= d.=C2=A0

This document, and most of the spring-related ones, has= really been a group effort with important contributions from a significant= number of people.=C2=A0 You will notice that in most cases I have exercise= d my discretion in allowing more than 5 authors in the front page, while ma= ny contributors have been moved to their own section, precisely because of = the level and significance of the contributions.

Thanks!

Alvaro= .


--001a11c17984296b8205603d06b2-- From nobody Wed Dec 13 10:42:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA84C124D6C; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:41:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151319051482.30109.537791118842316529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:41:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:41:55 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I ended up reading draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header in tandem with this document, and I have a question arising out of that. The trust model for SRv6 outlined in this document appears to be one of reliance on the fact that an SRH will only ever be inserted and appear within a single administrative domain. But Section 5.2.2 of draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header talks about an SRH being inserted by a device outside of the segment routing domain. Which is correct? I think this is an important question because the whole trust model for the SR information seems to rely on out-of-band trust between participating nodes. I also think this is important because there is no discussion in this document of the impact of the inclusion of the SR metadata on the fingerprinting of the device that inserted it. Section 5.1.4 of draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header sort of alludes to this but seems to equate the capabilities of an active attacker (who can conduct a traceroute) with a passive attacker who could passively collect topology/fingerprinting information simply by observing SRHes flowing by on the network. If the limitation to a single administrative domain is meant to prevent such a passive attack (not sure if that is really true, but perhaps the document assumes it?), that's another reason that the existence of such a limitation needs to be clarified. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Per my DISCUSS comment, I think this document needs to include some considerations concerning the additional metadata that SRv6 adds to the packet. This has implications not just for passive observers but also for any node that logs the SRH. From nobody Wed Dec 13 10:42:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E25127286; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:42:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases@ietf.org, Bruno Decraene , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, bruno.decraene@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151319057127.30150.12324838304884160740.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:42:51 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:42:51 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I share the Gen-ART reviewer's concerns about the trust model that underlies SRv6. But it seems the source of those concerns is that actual spec (draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header), not this use case document. From nobody Wed Dec 13 10:46:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6EA12704B; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:46:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=qmYY1O6V; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=DzPtuedX Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Ko-V0731r4p; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EDAF126E01; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6846520D34; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:46:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=u9YYAMEJ8YuIho+AjCwkb3a27YRp4 PJZMKHzVCFCfmk=; b=qmYY1O6V1gmaj/+42Rwp2IdwMAL115MgqBae/ciukKhkh 2uHTtqa9qFcg9+UGeEIZL/3BhCLT9Ht/dyEASCdKKxwKwOFI2Yt+JZe65N6VB9Zp vwNsk2NojaoTYL6GIJBThxZHAGd1UAbe1CMUV7I8RFVDFVHFAZp7UfWB8EhjIpeM W7hbETRMOOIPX7DpbcD2HlhUT6aSvdvMo13x9ZiM7NO+zIrgwKS5Lm1ji37hOTfN VXfpAg1p1dblwPKPy+ffBJX9iKmN5diVI6bn0njppNLIqm3t0M/seioGdQdwmnZe uk5TjFkO7n/gMSb8jWLrXg8mAXCNuV371YFVW2VqA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=u9YYAM EJ8YuIho+AjCwkb3a27YRp4PJZMKHzVCFCfmk=; b=DzPtuedXIosrLRS7P64flt C5VErjDQp9WG6liNzQndIRWXvifPzHZetbqLsUu5lS1q0E6aT4qWjhqwSfIK5vyy 9C5NCWxV4OTGqX1JVt+tYI88VdNrw6ESIrc+GMwcMMf3l5b70q/L5XXmXCHuwHaN 9Gk8uHr5natnW/+KE9qS0UHPFz9QFn7GVfMAjkiZVrWshDU2Scfq+n75prBHjYwl KIPOeEUqIiIEXNLMSk8ERwgpe0jNJW77sUXtyIdJMiKdOkb+OimewAZTT5hnpDMF p1iy6Yy6tc/AsFha/Bf+pPEiWhdg5jUDSC8o4c+dDX/Q+8yQ3FTyTXhFMEUgwRQQ == X-ME-Sender: Received: from sjc-alcoop-8816.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.187]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 34AA5240F6; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:46:24 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <151208207669.11941.1774085292828356059@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:46:22 -0500 Cc: gen-art , spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <47B25669-3300-427E-A7BD-E86D9A19DA5D@cooperw.in> References: <151208207669.11941.1774085292828356059@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Stewart Bryant X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:46:28 -0000 Stewart, thanks for your review.=20 I agree with your concerns around the trust model, but I think the = underlying issue is with the standards-track specifications = (architecture and the v6 header definition), not with this use case = document. I did see a response from Mark on your question about homenet. I would = encourage the authors to take a look at the remainder of your comments = to see if there are associated changes to be made to the document. Thanks, Alissa > On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Stewart Bryant = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Stewart Bryant > Review result: Not Ready >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your > document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11 > Reviewer: Stewart Bryant > Review Date: 2017-11-30 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-05-04 > IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >=20 > Summary: The document has clearly been improved by the removal of the = MPLS > text. It is now quite a short draft. However a number of major issues = appear to > remain. >=20 > Major issues: >=20 > The homenet section calls up an enterprise related draft, but none of = the > homenet drafts. As I understand it homenet also supports = source-destination > routeing. Is the use case really the home environment? If so there = really needs > to be text explaining why the apparently competing solution is needed. = If the > use case is the Enterprise environment perhaps the section name should = be > changed. >=20 > The authors did not address my question from the previous review = concerning how > the necessary routing information is provided given that the homenet = WG are > using a distance vector routing protocol. >=20 > There seems to be an outstanding comment concerning the text >=20 > "Information included in the SPRING header, whether imposed by the > end-host itself, a customer edge router, or within the access = network > of the ISP, may be of use at the far ends of the data communication > as well. For example, an application running on an end-host with > application-support in a data center can utilize the SPRING header = as > a channel to include information that affects its treatment within > the data center itself, allowing for application-level steering and > load-balancing without relying upon implicit application > classification techniques at the data-center edge. Further, as more > and more application traffic is encrypted, the ability to extract > (and include in the SPRING header) just enough information to enable > the network and data center to load-balance and steer traffic > appropriately becomes more and more important." >=20 > SB> However there is a trust issue with sharing information in this = way > SB> and it was a breach of trust that caused the source routing = feature > SB> to be removed from IPv6 in the first place. > SB> > SB> For this to be a valid use case I think you need to address the > SB> trust and security issues to explain why they are no longer = relevant > SB> or make it clear that they need to be addressed. >=20 > I don't thing the following question was addressed from my previous = review: >=20 > The need to setup a source-based path, going through some specific > middle/intermediate points in the network may be related to = different > requirements: >=20 > SB> There needs to be some discussion on the trust model here and > SB> attack vectors associated with this proposal. >=20 > This remains from my previous review: >=20 > An ingress node steers a packet through > a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the > packet with SPRING header. >=20 > SB> That is what I think it should do, but that is not the design = direction > SB> of the current IPv6 proposal. The design of record modifies the > SB> IPv6 header. >=20 > As I understand the design the it does not prepend (i.e. use an = encapsulation > or a tunnel) it modifies the IPv6 header and then inserts a block of = data > between the header and the transport header. >=20 > I do not recall seeing an answer to this question from the previous = review: >=20 > In an environment, where each single cache system can be uniquely > identified by its own IPv6 address, a list containing a sequence of > the caches in a hierarchy can be built. At each node (cache) in the > list, the presence of the requested content if checked. If the > requested content is found at the cache (cache hits scenario) the > sequence ends, even if there are more nodes in the list; otherwise > next element in the list (next node/cache) is examined. >=20 > SB> This needs some discussion on the alternative approaches: > SB> for example service function chaining and an ICN overlay. >=20 > Minor issues: None >=20 > Nits/editorial comments: None >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Dec 13 12:10:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF29128CF0; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:10:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151319581850.30080.17196671582849882645.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:10:18 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:10:18 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I (think I) share the concerns that Alissa and Adam have raised here. To that end, I am balloting no-obj but I support Alissa's DISCUSS. The following comments may help get clarity here as well. It seems to me that the MPLS variant relies on the security properties of MPLS but that the IPv6 variant can potentially route packets over the public Internet and relies on the HMAC defines in draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header to protect the SRH from modification. Is that correct? To that end, the various nodes in the system must all be within one domain but you can have an untrusted IPv6 path in between them. Is that correct? The HMAC doesn't seem to be mandatory? When we look at that other document should it be mandatory under some conditions? I had some trouble understanding the algorithm in S 3.1.2. Let me see if I can reconstruct the scenario. We have a list of i ranges, R(i) each of which is identified by L(Ri), N(Ri), so for instance, so for instance, we might have two ranges: R0 -> L=10, N=2 -> labels 10, 11 R1 -> L=20, N=3 -> labels 20, 21, 22 And then these are indexed by treating these as one contiguous array A = [10, 11, 20, 21, 22] and then label(X) = A(X). Is that right? Nit: I found a bunch of examples of "e.g.:". The correct form is "e.g., " From nobody Wed Dec 13 12:26:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6658126FDC; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:26:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=bM00e6f/; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=QgK9OdJC Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Knf6cuW1eia; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1B72128792; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5364F20A7C; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:26:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=mHs5ohcE4pihOMHml9qDdYjii5t9u yTiQ7E6ovmkEAg=; b=bM00e6f/Utjw40eIRsUj+gvFENs3UVESrh8FPdhsS3Rrc OaoIRLBE8qVwsqMZ1u0irRuhpVB9rqDQnzqpaTiIaWC90YQn3FrSRVawGnHy9ibT fLfeCMZjBnq8aTIS0QaLy5K7d/XoG3+M2HASGf77wM3EQZ71ED1OdCmK7uh8iOY1 bKxC6zn9CyCgqI73TI/UuYmHNnNfqx7h1A+/VRKbf063jQca4ynZRfzeUX0uFyTh R7fAGSLigYOsTT209Nwiuty1aCqJN7oXCQdJlHb14PCRW9ZhKbhG1t7YJ47YPZG3 VvoVgq8xF6Isj9NV8EeXb4D5oLqf7pvOw4fPMctSw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=mHs5oh cE4pihOMHml9qDdYjii5t9uyTiQ7E6ovmkEAg=; b=QgK9OdJCucg1SnHwB1yPft 2HtzFr/pPsQIsSvBC4bjMNJ9YS+cW/HT47lJHZUI3jz1w3CaoASC/cZ/fFnZgDCw /Yu7JG1geIV8GX26JQY3/yEEOQ1LOOxbhpOlwfwAmiNwmOh7nmRCQmBOohXEaRLN eXigDflR0kJel3cxPwgjPizaZQzIY8RJOg4liogZJ9P5rGjlHTU31KxQgxfDAq30 T6kuxD1JwFZTEATErVdB4WLfvB6lE8rBR2ckiTZfSWmnHBVI4B7go0xauwG7DH+E F+b0XLL2lKdXovNEX7Gj2q0ySHoHOPFrxH0QGw6XZXmQDmLRmZ8yYogurZ0R64fw == X-ME-Sender: Received: from sjc-alcoop-8816.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.187]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 23ADE245F0; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:25:58 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <0920656E-31EF-43F7-888C-15E41D6B46FD@previdi.net> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:25:58 -0500 Cc: Brian Carpenter , gen-art@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <151035635006.437.7091503683528981768@ietfa.amsl.com> <0920656E-31EF-43F7-888C-15E41D6B46FD@previdi.net> To: stefano previdi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:26:02 -0000 Brian, thanks for your reviews. Stefano, thanks for your responses. I = have entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Nov 14, 2017, at 4:58 AM, stefano previdi = wrote: >=20 > Hi Brian, >=20 > thanks for the comments. See answers below. >=20 >=20 >> On Nov 11, 2017, at 12:25 AM, Brian Carpenter = wrote: >>=20 >> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter >> Review result: Ready >>=20 >> Gen-ART telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11 >>=20 >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your >> document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >>=20 >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >> . >>=20 >> Document: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11.txt >> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter >> Review Date: 2017-11-11 >> IETF LC End Date: 2017-05-04 >> IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >>=20 >> Summary: Ready >> -------- >>=20 >> Comment: >> -------- >>=20 >> When I reviewed this for Last Call, I had two general concerns: >> 1) Is it useful to publish use cases now, at the end of >> protocol development? >=20 >=20 > this is an old story and you should probably read the archives of the = spring mailing list ;-)=20 >=20 > To give you a summarized version of it, I=E2=80=99d say that yes, it = makes sense to have the use-case properly documented. Resiliency is one = of the major network operator use-case in segment routing networks and = vendors are required to provide solutions for it. Having a document = which can be pointed to and that describes the typical use case and = requirements helps the reader in understanding how the component of the = SR architecture address these requirements. >=20 >=20 >> 2) The AD review dated 2017-04-20 pointed out that the >> document should be historically consistent. >>=20 >> I'm going to assume that since the AD is bringing the draft >> to the IESG, he's now happy on these two points. >=20 >>=20 >> Minor issue: >> ------------ >>=20 >> I originally commented that Section 3 doesn't actually mention >> any specific requirements for Spring. In conversation with >> Stefano: >>=20 >>>> Right, but you don't state any *requirements* for SPRING that = result from this case, >>>> except the very general statement before section 3.1. Maybe that = does translate >>>> into specific requirements, but I don't see how. >>=20 >>> the generic requirement is the ability to instantiate source routed = paths. >>> These source routed paths, in the framework of this draft, are for = LFAs. >>=20 >> I still think that Section 3 doesn't identify this requirement. >> Maybe it's obvious to one skilled in the art, however. So >> I'm going to say "Ready=E2=80=9D. >=20 >=20 > Thanks. > s. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Dec 13 13:54:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822B1126DEE; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=kTQ/CN3O; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=aIH5stwI Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I_qpKP5zmLxc; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D13551201F8; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E2320A62; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:54:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:54:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=VHy3mveTnZB0gjHd8cPiYhLMMm/tg Usps6L3aie9wVM=; b=kTQ/CN3Olrp2XFYJfquVlJEN0/9x1ZLjWrV45/vUC8RxT 2/ptVr4wdPn7+5l1dW0gAtGKxIStZIfAhTC9lr3WLnFb5u0zA39diItP+z8UYTCA kEGjfLxwWetvPbCl6Kt5sbhiy4rcUrcXUv3y1lMIKDDMWzjpOY++YOSINQEGbNCK VuuAcNOdFoHhxpr3TfdNw1w/DqrsFntwgkDSS54NTCc/cXMaIcEYDqdmbUfY0t12 U1LGQSJ7HdOs3HRyGldM/OZ1Ay9fTl7JbE5LQ8703hjYOSnlL//YZeG7A8Md8Pki NHOL8sMKakrx2Yif2zqHHWpZiGK9SeP/tIeUH7REQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=VHy3mv eTnZB0gjHd8cPiYhLMMm/tgUsps6L3aie9wVM=; b=aIH5stwIq4UVfvb+HKCX8+ Q9XAM0Q14FSFn4/d+F00OQLfONnN2qEoRijUj3l3ebODQRWOqQAPshSTHlHheVqI n8teAAn30yxpNwQFjd92pegUMqrcDH8E3e+as3pw1v7BSkIo5RKKWHaLnic5FiX1 ULY6fR2Ylva4bxUpwlC3sRwh1K9K8QL75G2SGJDoFnAcBM4lM5MSQNKIzb53/l0e T1nkw4M0AfluLY1ixHYwsYNO/9VEXdW3cxPpek3Dx7dp99CRyOH8JZ+WH1hu4lwR 7oiEGm7vAV7ptNTg5VbUnNSH4WW9mBFDnP0lw9ylV7TIIs6i48YqRkHvTuLe9+vQ == X-ME-Sender: Received: from sjc-alcoop-8816.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.187]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9A44E24009; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:54:44 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <5238_1499432830_595F877E_5238_249_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A477F5711@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:54:43 -0500 Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , Pete Resnick , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase.all@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <149867468440.7527.6305996146978005032@ietfa.amsl.com> <5238_1499432830_595F877E_5238_249_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A477F5711@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: bruno.decraene@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:54:52 -0000 Pete, thanks for your review. I have entered a No Objection ballot. I = don=E2=80=99t have a strong feeling about moving this document to PS or = keeping it as-is. Alissa > On Jul 7, 2017, at 9:07 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >=20 > Hi Pete, Carlos, >=20 >> From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] > = Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2017 10:14 PM >>=20 >> Hi, Pete, >>=20 >> Many thanks for the time to read and review this document! >>=20 >> Like Ruediger, I will let the shepherd, chairs, and AD weight in =E2=80= =94 but in the meantime, I >> wanted to offer a couple of observations for consideration. Please = see inline. >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Pete Resnick = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Reviewer: Pete Resnick >>> Review result: Not Ready >>>=20 >>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just >>> like any other last call comments. >>>=20 >>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>>=20 >>> . >>>=20 >>> Document: draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-06 >>> Reviewer: Pete Resnick >>> Review Date: 2017-06-28 >>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-06-30 >>> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >>>=20 >>> Summary: Not Ready for publication as Informational, but might be = Ready for >>> publication as Proposed Standard >>>=20 >>> Major issues: >>>=20 >>> This is an admittedly unusual review. I have read through the entire = document, >>> and the technical work seems fine, but is well beyond my technical = expertise, >>> so I can't really comment on the technical correctness. However, it = is >>> absolutely clear to me that this is *not* a "use case" document at = all >>=20 >> I agree with the assessment that this is not a =E2=80=9Cuse-case=E2=80=9D= document (in a strict or traditional >> sense); this document describes a deployment case and a solution to a = use case, using >> existing technology blocks. It does not define new protocol nor (more = importantly) creates >> interoperability considerations. >=20 > As the doc shepherd, I agree that this document is more than a use = case and describes both a use case (sections 1, 4) and a monitoring = system (sections 3 and 6 to 8). And there is even an implementation = report: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-leipnitz-spring-pms-implementation-repor= t-00 >=20 > However, the solution related part does not require stand track = document as it runs as a standalone device with no need for = interoperability. Indeed, the solution leverages Segment Routing/SPRING = so that a unique node is used as both the sender and the receiver. As = such, the system is free to use any OAM protocol/packet format with no = interoperability consideration. It looks to me that such freedom is part = of this Path Monitoring System use case/system. > Plus, I fear that moving to standard track would mean changing the = document into a precise specification (e.g. which OAM tool(s) to use and = the way to use them) which was not the goal, may require significant = work and delay, and may even be suboptimal in removing freedom. >=20 > TL;DR: On my side, I don't feel that the document needs to be standard = track. But I guess that ultimately the decision is on the AD/IESG side. >=20 > Thanks, > --Bruno >=20 >>> and I >>> don't think it's appropriate as an Informational document. >>=20 >> Now, regarding the most appropriate intended status, I could = personally argue both sides, >> and frankly, I do not have a strong preference or concern either way. >>=20 >> The net of it is that this (informational/specification) document = does not create >> requirements for SPRING nodes, changes in SPRING, nor exposes = interoperability issues. It >> basically leverages as-is the underlying capabilities created with = SPRING. =46rom that angle, >> Informational is a very appropriate fit. On the other hand, I do not = disagree with this >> document specifying a system, and the play-of-words that results in = standards-track =E2=80=94 so >> it is a spec for the path monitoring system, but provides information = to the network and to >> SPRING specs on how the new tech can be used. >>=20 >> Net-net, I see Informational but can understand your rationale. >>=20 >> In any case, what does concern me more is whether a potential change = of intended status >> would add significant delay and reset process timers on a timeline = that is already >> overstretched and a very slow progress=E2=80=A6 >>=20 >>> This is clearly a >>> *specification* of a path monitoring system. It gives guidances as = to required, >>> recommended, and optional parameters, and specifies how to use = different >>> protocol pieces. It is at the very least what RFC 2026 refers to as = an >>> "Applicability Statement (AS)" (see RFC 2026, sec. 3.2). It *might* = be a BCP, >>> but it is not strictly giving "common guidelines for policies and = operations" >>> (2026, sec. 5), so I don't really think that's right, and instead = this should >>> be offered for Proposed Standard. Either way, I think Informational = is not >>> correct. Importantly, I think there is a good likelihood that this = document has >>> not received the appropriate amount of review; people tend to ignore >>> Informational "use case" documents, >>=20 >> This, however, I think is an inappropriate extrapolation. Although = the shepherd, WG and >> chairs already considered the intended status, I think it is = important to re-think what=E2=80=99s best >> for this document in the context of the merits, structure and goals. = But justifying it not >> being informational because =E2=80=9Cpeople tend to ignore [=E2=80=A6]=E2= =80=9D seems a red herring. >>=20 >>> and there have been no Last Call comments >>> beyond Joel's RTG Area Review. >>=20 >> Within SPRING, this document dates the origins of the WG. It was = presented in many WGs >> numerous times and iterated through many versions (within three = filenames) as various >> reviews came in. I=E2=80=99d recommend you also go back and check the = timeline. I would not also >> make hard conclusions based on LC traffic. >>=20 >>> Even in IESG review, an Informational document >>> only takes the sponsoring AD to approve; every other AD can = summarily ignore >>> the document, or even ballot ABSTAIN, and the document will still be = published >>> (though that does not normally happen). This document should have = much more >>> than that level of review. I strongly recommend to the WG and AD = that this >>> document be withdrawn as an Informational document and resubmitted = for Proposed >>> Standard and have that level of review and scrutiny applied to it. >>=20 >> As I said, I am happy with either status and can see arguments both = ways. I would not >> object to a change. >>=20 >> However, personally, I do not see the need. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Minor issues: >>>=20 >>> None. >>>=20 >>> Nits/editorial comments: >>>=20 >>> This document refers to RFC 4379, which has been obsoleted by RFC = 8029. It >>> seems like the references should be updated. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> Indeed. Done in -07 and -08. >>=20 >> Thanks again, Pete! >>=20 >> =E2=80=94 >> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com >>=20 >> =E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to = make myself sound more >> photosynthesis." >=20 >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Dec 13 19:03:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17124127078; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:03:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322061608.6162.117083228377789141.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:03:36 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:03:36 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Substantive Comments: - I support Alissa's discuss and Adam's major comment. - Requirements Language: There are lower case instances of 2119 keywords. Unless you mean for those to also be normative, please use the boilerplate from RFC 8174. -3.1.1, last paragraph: Why are the SHOULDs not MUSTs? -12.2: The citations to the following references seem to be used normatively: I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions Editorial Comments and Nits: -1, 2nd paragraph: s/"referred by"/"referred to by" -2, definition of "Active Segment" : "The segment that MUST be used..." The MUST seems like a statement of fact. (If that is actually intended to define a requirement, please state it more directly.) -8, 2nd paragraph, first sentence: s/on/to -8.2, 2nd paragraph, first sentence: s/on/to From nobody Wed Dec 13 19:23:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629A812426E; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:23:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322180839.6182.11669409384842071154.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:23:28 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:23:28 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Requirements Language: The 2119 keywords in this draft are not used in the sense of RFC 2119. That RFC talks explicitly about interoperability among protocol implementations. This draft uses them to define requirement for protocol and architecture design. That's not necessarily a problem, but please change the Requirements Language section to describe the actual usage. -2, third paragraph from end: "o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to compute paths that MUST NOT be protected by local repair techniques..." The MUST NOT seems a statement of fact. Consider something to the effect of "... compute paths that are not protected by local repair techniques..." From nobody Wed Dec 13 19:45:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271381205F1; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:45:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, bruno.decraene@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322313115.6120.8756591218425505436.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:45:31 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:45:31 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Substantive Comments: - General: I note there has been discussion about why this draft is Informational rather than something else. There's an explanation in the shepherd's writeup. It would be helpful to have the same explanation as a note in the draft. (People rarely read the shepherd's report once an RFC is published.) - 3, last paragraph: " Further options, like deployment of a PMS connecting to the MPLS domain by a tunnel only require more thought, as this implies security aspects." I have trouble parsing that. Is it intended as an open issue, or a statement that the "further options" are out of scope? Also, consider deleting the word "only". -4.1, 2nd to last paragraph: I'm not sure what to make of the "In theory at least," prefix. Normally IETF RFCs are about what (we hope) works in _practice_. -10, last paragraph: I don't understand the intent of this paragraph. Editorial Comments and Nits: - section1, first sentence: s/operator/operators - same section, first bullet: "operators" is repeated twice. (i.e. "operators operators") -- third bullet: "allows to transport" should be either "allows to transport" or "allows the transport". -- 4th bullet, last sentence: I suggest the following: OLD: [...] since both sender and receiver have the same clock, sequence numbers to ease the measurement...). NEW: [...] since both sender and receiver have the same clock and sequence numbers to ease the measurement.). -10, 2nd paragraph: " The PMS allows to insert " That should either be "allows to insert" or "Allows the insertion" -- 3rd paragraph: I can't parse the sentence. Should "avoid a PMS to insert traffic" be "prevent a PMS from inserting traffic"? -- 4th paragraph: s/personal/personnel -- 5th paragraph: I can't parse the last sentence. -- 6th paragraph: "As soon as the PMS has an indication, that its IGP or MPLS topology are stale..." The comma between "indication" and "that" should be removed. From nobody Wed Dec 13 19:55:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F616126D74; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:55:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kathleen Moriarty To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322370751.6222.4040293688172571956.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:55:07 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Kathleen Moriarty's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:55:07 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- While I understand the assumption that following the capabilities of existing protocols that incorporate similar functionality is okay, I'd like to walk through the security properties left off in the security considerations section to prevent tampering and see what can be done to correct that or minimally to list out the considerations. There's a few places in the security considerations section to call out specifically. Section 8.1: "The received information is validated using existing control plane protocols providing authentication and security mechanisms. Segment Routing does not define any additional security mechanism in existing control plane protocols." For MPLS what "security mechanisms" are referred to in this text? It would be helpful to list any properties explicitly or drop this phrase if there are no additional security mechanisms. Since segment routing lists an explicit list of segments (I see that this can be done with MPLS labels and you note it is already exposed), why is there no mention of integrity protection and origin authentication to prevent tampering? I think EKR's comment is already hinting at this with his comments on IPv6, but I'd like to see explicit text to preferably fix this gap in the architecture, but minimally to document it and the associated security threats that result from this gap for MPLS and IPv6. Section 8.2: "From a network protection standpoint, there is an assumed trust model such that any node adding an SRH to the packet is assumed to be allowed to do so. Therefore, by default, the explicit routing information MUST NOT be leaked through the boundaries of the administered domain. Segment Routing extensions that have been defined in various protocols, leverage the security mechanisms of these protocols such as encryption, authentication, filtering, etc." This document focuses on the same threats as the MPLS use cases with no mention of tampering or mitigations. Text should be added to describe how origin authentication and integrity are provided in the source routing header for IPv6 with the associated threats or to describe this gap if a solution does not exist. I have not read the draft referred to at the start of this section, so I don't know if it addresses the concern or not. In any case, this document isn't complete without some text on tampering considerations within your trusted domain. Thank you. From nobody Wed Dec 13 20:00:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FB31205F1; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:00:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, bruno.decraene@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322405310.6099.6620242004144054598.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:00:53 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:00:53 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Substantive Comments: - General: The purpose of this draft is not clear. It claims to describe a solution in places. It's not clear to me if this is a "solution", a set of requirements, or a general exploration of the design possibilities. The shepherd writeup doesn't really help, since it explicitly says this draft describes a "solution", which is usually more of a standards track thing. I don't mean to say that I think it should not be informational, but a description of _why_ it's informational (in the draft itself) would be helpful. (This is further confused by the heavy use of language like "might", "could be", "likely", etc. throughout parts of the draft.) - Requirements Language: The 2119 keywords in this draft are not used in the sense of RFC 2119. That RFC talks explicitly about interoperability among protocol implementations. This draft uses them to define requirement for protocol and architecture design. That's not necessarily a problem, but please change the Requirements Language section to describe the actual usage. -10: The security considerations are entirely made up of citations to the underlying technology drafts. It should also talk about whether there are new security considerations introduced by there use in the context of this draft. Even if the answer is that there aren't any, it would be helpful to describe the thought processes that lead to that conclusion. Editorial Comments and Nits: - 1: The introduction is not really an introduction. I expected to find a description of the purpose of the draft, but all there is is a description of the draft structure. -- Please expand "SID" on first mention. -2, first paragraph: missing article before "BGP-EPE capable node" -4.6: I can't parse the first sentence. From nobody Wed Dec 13 20:11:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374331270A0; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:11:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322470621.6087.1349247326142190541.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:11:46 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:11:46 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Ben's point about RFC 2119/8174 requirements keyword usage. For example, I'm looking at the MUST NOT in A first protection strategy consists in excluding any local repair but instead use end-to-end path protection where each SPRING path is protected by a second disjoint SPRING path. In this case local protection MUST NOT be used. and wondering why that's normative. I would have guessed that the point was, "if you use local protection, you're not carrying out the end-to-end path protection strategy that this section describes", but that isn't an RFC 2119/8174 interoperation keyword thing. What am I missing here? I agree with Adam's confusion about Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not last long enough and in general they are noticed during the time it takes for the network to converge. I assumed that this was supposed to say something like Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not last long enough to be noticed during the time it takes for the network to converge. but the current text isn't clear. From nobody Wed Dec 13 20:33:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6685D1205F1; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:33:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322600641.6202.5483177018916405567.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:33:26 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:33:26 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not surprised to see additional security alarm bells going off for the SRv6 variant - this is quite similar to the additional congestion awareness alarm bells that went off when we were evaluating MPLS (which is usually pretty well contained) over UDP (which can get around the Internet with a lot less effort than MPLS without UDP). That's an opportunity to rethink the impact of changes to an underlying technology. Which leads me to the point I should be making as a TSV AD. I'm not seeing any obvious mechanism that would tell you that you've managed to set up your segment routing so that some paths will undergo persistent congestion. You might consider whether it's worth recommending that people doing segment routing take a look at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8084/ and decide how much, if anything, would be useful to say about that. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510#section-5 is an early example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:LEXPR01MB0093; H:LEXPR01MB0094.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: telekom.de does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b4442828-2695-4cf5-cfdc-08d542d8f228 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2017 09:56:28.5298 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bde4dffc-4b60-4cf6-8b04-a5eeb25f5c4f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: LEXPR01MB0093 X-OriginatorOrg: telekom.de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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ZSByZW1vdmVkLg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Dec 14 02:27:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EE71267BB; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 02:27:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3rgdDiPmFgl7; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 02:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C839124217; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 02:27:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8621; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513247252; x=1514456852; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=7X5y1xbLlQEOCI4kgCgVG2ChuePnEapiN6vOFtd0fvA=; b=d02+LD8BY1HnR/ChNvzcbl4jr9sDiy6vWw4C1Q1DeO5Cxd/0iFPSoa5Z 9x8pEvu2aMmUTJNdffhXErYEUlAtrq2xOwhEBfbLKJrHbfF+7m7orrWCH /CzUPlcJGaNl31sRi+i9G/fL7ZmTsIFGgHbc/jvoX2IM3LjjrTGtjUxWW c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CGAgDAUTJa/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYMPgRV0J4QCixWPYQkmkUeFThSCAQojhRgChVwXAQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BayiFJAEFI1YQCxgqAgJXBgEMCAEBiiYQqReCJyaKPQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBARgFg2CDYYFpKQuCd4MuAQGBOgEMBgGDNIJjBYpLmFmHfI0tghaGEoN?= =?us-ascii?q?sh1aNE4FWiAGBOyECNWBWGDIaCBsVOoIpglMcGYFPQDcBh1cOGIIhAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208,217";a="900654" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 10:27:28 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.36] (ams-bclaise-nitro3.cisco.com [10.55.221.36]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEARRdX026100; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 10:27:28 GMT To: Adam Roach , The IESG Cc: martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <900832dc-2659-eec0-8745-654cac0251eb@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:27:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------61112C2EA83C421B4D840282" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 10:27:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------61112C2EA83C421B4D840282 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12/13/2017 6:58 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks to everyone who put in work on this document. I do note that the list of > authors is over the five-author recommended limit. I checked both the ballot > and the shepherd write-up, and was a little surprised not to find an > explanation of why this document is exceptional in this regard. > > I have one major comment and a handful of editorial comments. > > The major comment regards the treatment of trust assumptions in the security > section. The SR-MPLS section asserts: "[T]here is an assumed trust model such > that any node imposing a label stack on a packet is assumed to be allowed to do > so"; the SRv6 section has a similar assertion: "[T]here is an assumed trust > model such that any node adding an SRH to the packet is assumed to be allowed > to do so." > > I leave it to the security area directors to speak to whether it is okay in > 2017 to publish documents that forego integrity protection of source routing > information based on assumptions of perfectly secured networks. Irrespective of > the answer to that question, I'm perplexed that the security section does not > go into detail about the consequences that arise when these assumptions are > violated. I think a clear description of these consequences is relevant and > necessary to include, as it informs the level of care that is appropriate for > both implementation and deployment of these protocols. > > I want to be clear that I consider this a major flaw in the document, and am on > the fence regarding whether it should constitute a blocking DISCUSS. I would > support anyone else in issuing a DISCUSS on this topic. > > Editorial comments follow. > > Section 2 contains the following text: > > Active Segment: the segment that MUST be used by the receiving router > to process the packet. > > I really don't think you want to use normative language in the terminology > section. I strongly recommend moving this requirement down to a section that > bears more directly on implementation. Btw, there are more occurrences than this one. SR Local Block (SRLB): local property of an SR node. If a node participates in multiple SR domains, there is one SRLB for each SR domain. In SR-MPLS, SRLB is a set of local labels reserved for local segments. In SRv6, SRLB is a set of local IPv6 addresses reserved for local SRv6 SID's. In a controller-driven network, some controllers or applications MAY use the control plane to discover the available set of local segments. Regards, Benoit > > Section 3.4.2: > > These extensions are defined in IGP SR extensions documents. > > Please add a citation to the relevant documents. > > Section 3.5: > > ABRs G and J will propagate the prefix and its SIDs into the backbone > area by creating a new instance of the prefix according to normal > inter-area/level IGP propagation rules. > > Please expand the term "ABR" on first use. > > > . > --------------61112C2EA83C421B4D840282 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 12/13/2017 6:58 PM, Adam Roach wrote:
Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to everyone who put in work on this document. I do note that the list of
authors is over the five-author recommended limit. I checked both the ballot
and the shepherd write-up, and was a little surprised not to find an
explanation of why this document is exceptional in this regard.

I have one major comment and a handful of editorial comments.

The major comment regards the treatment of trust assumptions in the security
section. The SR-MPLS section asserts: "[T]here is an assumed trust model such
that any node imposing a label stack on a packet is assumed to be allowed to do
so"; the SRv6 section has a similar assertion: "[T]here is an assumed trust
model such that any node adding an SRH to the packet is assumed to be allowed
to do so."

I leave it to the security area directors to speak to whether it is okay in
2017 to publish documents that forego integrity protection of source routing
information based on assumptions of perfectly secured networks. Irrespective of
the answer to that question, I'm perplexed that the security section does not
go into detail about the consequences that arise when these assumptions are
violated. I think a clear description of these consequences is relevant and
necessary to include, as it informs the level of care that is appropriate for
both implementation and deployment of these protocols.

I want to be clear that I consider this a major flaw in the document, and am on
the fence regarding whether it should constitute a blocking DISCUSS. I would
support anyone else in issuing a DISCUSS on this topic.

Editorial comments follow.

Section 2 contains the following text:

   Active Segment: the segment that MUST be used by the receiving router
   to process the packet.

I really don't think you want to use normative language in the terminology
section. I strongly recommend moving this requirement down to a section that
bears more directly on implementation.
Btw, there are more occurrences than this one.
   SR Local Block (SRLB): local property of an SR node.  If a node
   participates in multiple SR domains, there is one SRLB for each SR
   domain.  In SR-MPLS, SRLB is a set of local labels reserved for local
   segments.  In SRv6, SRLB is a set of local IPv6 addresses reserved
   for local SRv6 SID's.  In a controller-driven network, some
   controllers or applications MAY use the control plane to discover the
   available set of local segments.

Regards, Benoit

Section 3.4.2:

   These extensions are defined in IGP SR extensions documents.

Please add a citation to the relevant documents.

Section 3.5:

   ABRs G and J will propagate the prefix and its SIDs into the backbone
   area by creating a new instance of the prefix according to normal
   inter-area/level IGP propagation rules.

Please expand the term "ABR" on first use.


.

--------------61112C2EA83C421B4D840282-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 03:18:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950D6124B17; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:18:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benoit Claise To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org, mehmet X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151325030860.6234.882913074592016232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:18:28 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:18:28 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The good news is that, whenever you have ingested the terminology section, you pretty much understand how the protocols works. :-) 1. Good to see that this new protocol spec. has a "manageability considerations". However, a major comment (not sure if this should be a DISCUSS, so help me understand). I have the same questions as Warren regarding: "In addition to the allocation policy/tooling that the operator will have in place, an implementation SHOULD protect the network in case of conflict detection by providing a deterministic resolution approach." I guess you want to start by stressing the SID uniqueness in the different scenario: distributed, centralized, hybrid. And from there, explain where this apply. I guess the sentence only applies to the hybrid scenario, right? Then you should explain how an implementation should first detect a conflict and then protect. 2. Section 3.1.1 The ingress node of an SR domain SHOULD validate that the path to a prefix, advertised with a given algorithm, includes nodes all supporting the advertised algorithm. This is only in the distributed scenario, right? This is what you mean by "advertised with a given algorithm" In other words, you mean "advertised with a given IGP algorithm". In hybrid or centralized scenarios, the ingress node might not know. See In a centralized scenario, ... The SR architecture allows these SR controllers to discover which SID's are instantiated at which nodes and which sets of local (SRLB) and global labels (SRGB) are available at which node. Editorial: NETCONF would benefit from a reference to RFC6241 From nobody Thu Dec 14 04:14:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15945128BC8; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:14:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@nokia.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151325365708.6146.18390872472856718284.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:14:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:14:17 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Alissa's and Kathleen's discusses and I would also like to add on to Spencer's comment: Given this is an architecture document, I think it would be appropriate to at least add a note about path selection and congestion management. This can be as simple as saying that if all traffic is assumed to best effort, it is expected that congestion control is implemented by the endpoints, or if resources are reserved it might make sense to monitor the incoming traffic and e.g. apply traffic shaping. From nobody Thu Dec 14 04:23:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6248C128BC8; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:23:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YipbWruzRiVT; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF553128BB7; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:23:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8700; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513254197; x=1514463797; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=fh9Vl/o9A4Gge3NpACOv7spFm5K8uvc0NccTIHuNVcU=; b=aGFi3fRIaEN5fvDgvASrQlknebkAd78jVaphcWR+CczAjXNUqAq+Pbms mfBF8T/XZTeHZg28K8qr7Zmp0uAYoyppnIVBXRRjmPj7cM3Y9l3fbQ6Sd 6jImkGpe9qG0s6YjRTBUuolkg49SBL76ATOk+Y62SONSrATzvmUoGYUWn E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DcAAAvbDJa/4YNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM+ZnQnB4N7iiGPBoF9iHyOGhSCAQoYC4RJTwIahFs/GAEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAWsohSMBAQEBAgEBAQwVETEJCxACAQgSAgQCAiYCAgIfBgsVAg4CBAENB?= =?us-ascii?q?RuJdwMNCBCpHYInhzgNgxsBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYEPgk0EgW0?= =?us-ascii?q?hgVaBaSmDAoJqRAGBMiQvgn4xgjIFimeHLocniSw9Aod7iC+EfoIWhhKFRYV/j?= =?us-ascii?q?RU+iG0CERkBgToBHzmBTm8VOioBgX6CUxwZgU54iTaBFQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="321902758" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 14 Dec 2017 12:23:16 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (xch-rcd-019.cisco.com [173.37.102.29]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBECNGpM012567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:23:16 GMT Received: from xch-aln-017.cisco.com (173.36.7.27) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:23:16 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-017.cisco.com ([173.36.7.27]) by XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com ([173.36.7.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:23:16 -0600 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Alissa Cooper , Stewart Bryant CC: gen-art , "draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases.all@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11 Thread-Index: AQHTdEK4astsnnvXCEaaQ6W0Jed2n6NDKLGA Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:23:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151208207669.11941.1774085292828356059@ietfa.amsl.com> <47B25669-3300-427E-A7BD-E86D9A19DA5D@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <47B25669-3300-427E-A7BD-E86D9A19DA5D@cooperw.in> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.82.54] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <11344090785B624E8900E00E8CA34C5A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases@ietf.org, Bruno Decraene , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, bruno.decraene@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151325490959.6218.15588848170667748824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:35:09 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:35:10 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Minor question regarding SPRING in Core networks (section 2.5): Why is SR here bettter than MPLS (which I guess is used today for this use case)? In general it would probably have been nice to also talk a bit about how this is better/different than existing technologies. From nobody Thu Dec 14 04:47:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C5C128D64; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.737 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.737 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vFkbtIxEAGAa; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x233.google.com (mail-ot0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4249D1275FD; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x233.google.com with SMTP id h9so4817668oti.0; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/JpV2mEh9URLBH1X3X1tJzgO11pAaGrVUcxSVKnnPJk=; b=Z+G3mGG1insUaacli5rckAHNLHdEe340OIYOSDXhmqLWTOWaw8B55VQz1WQrAIYXTb 6stLHbv/iW4QtN89ENvl6cuRyMWYr61fovNy7/k6kcZ8E5UzSaZvUwnO450n/TQuY41C qF0y22te7n3LX6zggA0VjfAsDwEJKwNGpzmAbIsZLY9/qKkKuXikFW+730feFyHZIpWa hyQxPNzACbaMYo6tlyFSMnblnFPwFdPJ0vE3GXYWTcui5wdT3F2YUFcPx0AMmSA3iuuP qWnOU1YbdZ7XTFbOIdrTmfWG+TRZMuAZ5jo7CTBY/b+nHzJw6p3laiBRAG40JtvxIw6Y 9y9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/JpV2mEh9URLBH1X3X1tJzgO11pAaGrVUcxSVKnnPJk=; b=fHzZenAW+FXlcrznq8cjYFD0yOaFulFGPzgP39zXrE3bAfWvUxTTdjTZ0GJgqfUJce Rbc82WtSa3XMHg+X0GOIFpe6qJ4PzyfwXVynMPaMHU/6KF8dQLsZ8S1yp3G60xcADFQ3 kPdDCEHas1J2FEF8ngzlPv+cdnvsNp+wv1FKwo7Vq/oxLp0qRVhytpVLufAA+Sdn76x2 m2gb8XMgVAI2VTM62oBpoyWRKUKZ+rfcVnCC3evMI9OK36DHbyKhc1WUD/3u4wq08BzW CgxfSFktE6rkGCY4DJO7XhfZTo8m9ljgk77jinEyj31/7vHh3mVbUXbWGXOnOrE/FgWk MiQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLRYZo6EHmBIEXXJZ2UadQ6Nphu2hNLVuQdMiiph1NuXIN8SA9U BwInx0ckJW5es2brXV3J16g1vjGv9qW27GtP/7g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotbA0T6yL0B/5Tx8AttahKWMtI4ncVDSJpnVux94Y765tZb3njNTFWMGNROomVebYXBQ88bteLJi2w4bzyw6iM= X-Received: by 10.157.22.183 with SMTP id c52mr4432309ote.317.1513255622609; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:02 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <151325490959.6218.15588848170667748824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151325490959.6218.15588848170667748824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Airmail (467) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:47:02 -0800 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= , The IESG Cc: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases@ietf.org, Bruno Decraene , spring-chairs@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141c090d7112b05604c47c2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:47:08 -0000 --001a1141c090d7112b05604c47c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On December 14, 2017 at 7:35:10 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind (ietf@kuehlewind.n= et) wrote: Mirja: Hi! Minor question regarding SPRING in Core networks (section 2.5): Why is SR here bettter than MPLS (which I guess is used today for this use case)? In general it would probably have been nice to also talk a bit about how this is better/different than existing technologies. In reality that part is not about SRv6 vs MPLS. Instead, it=E2=80=99s abou= t the fact that people do use IP-only (no MPLS) infrastructure in some cases. IOW, the use cases in this document should provide justification for functionality needed above a plain IP network. Thanks! Alvaro. --001a1141c090d7112b05604c47c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On December 14, 2017 at 7:35:10 AM, Mirja K=C3=BC= hlewind (ietf@kuehlewind.net) wr= ote:

Mirja:

Hi!

Min= or question regarding SPRING in Core networks (section 2.5): Why is SR here= =C2=A0
bettter than = MPLS (which I guess is used=C2=A0today=C2=A0for this use case)? In general=C2=A0
it would probably = have been nice to also talk a bit about how this is=C2=A0
= better/different than existing techno= logies.=C2=A0

In reality that part is not about SRv6 vs MPLS.=C2= =A0 Instead, it=E2=80=99s about the fact that people do use IP-only (no MPL= S) infrastructure in some cases.=C2=A0 IOW, the use cases in this document = should provide justification for functionality needed above a plain IP netw= ork.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


--001a1141c090d7112b05604c47c2-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 04:55:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D06A128DE5; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:55:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151325611730.6112.10921253066764453945.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:55:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:55:17 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a question which is probably simply the result of not having had time to read all spring docs in detail: Can you maybe indicate how the requirements at the end of section 2 have been addressed in the spring architecture doc? And another question on section 3: Wouldn't it also make sense to have a mechanism that reports if local repair was used and respectively the traffic was not routed over the indicated path but a different one? And another comment on section 2: You write that you need a way to check the liveness of a path if used for primary and backup, however, this is also true for the case where the two paths are used with ECMP as it usually doesn't help you that much if you only receive half of your packets. Only if you send all packets over both paths, you don't need a active check, however, it should be mentioned that this also needs more capacity and can therefore cause unnecessary congestion. From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:34:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED43128DF3; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:34:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h8OKO2Rig4K2; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 422DE1250B8; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:34:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4914; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513258479; x=1514468079; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qu9fsigDwVY2ppKzpB3WbNJ5mtNvjXpgCq7xEQo+evA=; b=gjGSjrU23neJ+/+hdIPlY1z89Pm8jtDqZ2z8fonD5cdBxAO35Fnvh+8d +EnTrpglhza3van2sDuF41dqfw7YQt9ZtgkrU4uI82LvuywxVuYtd3ifa JicUpu5ozF8Qa2DMw2Av09UJZ9PdLQH6CfbXPZSeWhGVbFdzQ5UplvdKS w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ByAQBWfTJa/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYMPgRV0J48XkA+XFhSCAQoYDYRHTwKFNxYBAQEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?jAQEBAQIBAQE2NgoBEAsOBAYJFgQLCQMCAQIBFSIOBgEMAQUCAQEXigcIEKsRE?= =?us-ascii?q?opgAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDYINkgWmDK4MuAQGBKREBEgGGFwW?= =?us-ascii?q?KS48IiVKHfY0tghaGEoNsh1iNFYlYgTsmBixgVhgyGggbFTqCKYMIgU9ANwGIE?= =?us-ascii?q?YI5AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="909854" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 13:34:35 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEDYY5w028527; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:34:35 GMT Message-ID: <5A327DF0.2070809@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:34:40 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151312590704.30101.2997347222004872263.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151312590704.30101.2997347222004872263.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:34:43 -0000 Hi Eric, I took the editor role from Stefano. Please see inline: On 13/12/17 01:45 , Eric Rescorla wrote: > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > As a reminder, one of the majors network operator requirements is > path disjointness capability. Network operators have deployed > Nit: major fixed. > > A first protection strategy consists in excluding any local repair > but instead use end-to-end path protection where each SPRING path is > protected by a second disjoint SPRING path. In this case local > Nits: > "consists of" and "instead uses" fixed. > > path. As a requirement, the two paths MUST be disjoint in their > links, nodes or shared risk link groups (SRLGs). > Do you mean to say that this fulfills that requirement? Or is this an > additional requirement that isn't provided by the topology given. it is meant to say that it fulfills that requirement. I changed to wording to: "The two paths MUST be disjoint in their links, nodes and shared risk link groups (SRLGs) to satisfy the requirement of disjointness.' Hopefully that makes it clear. > > o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to compute paths that MUST > NOT be protected by local repair techniques (as illustrated in the > example of paths T1 and T2). > This MUST NOT is kind of unclear. Are you computing paths that will not > otherwise be protected? Are you computing paths in such a way that they will > not be protected? what is important is the "local repair techniques". The requirement is that the path is not locally protected by Fast Reroute techniques, but is protected as a end-to-end path. I would tend to replace the "MUST NOT" with "are not". > > This section describes two alternatives providing local protection > without requiring operator management, namely bypass protection and > These are alternative strategies to the one described in S 2? not really. These are two alternatives of "local protection", in contrast to the "path protection" described in section 2. > > For example, a demand from A to Z, transported over the shortest > paths provided by the SPRING architecture, benefits from management- > "demand"? I would have assumed you meant "packet" or "datagram" here, but maybe > I am misreading. no, you are not misreading - "demand" is not the right word. I changed to "traffic". > > destination Z. Upon local detection of the failure, the traffic is > repaired over the backup path in sub-50 milliseconds. When primary > path comes back up, the operator either allows for an automated > Nit: "When the primary" fixed. > > an automated reversion of the traffic onto the primary path or > selects an operator-driven reversion. > Why would you want the mechanism in S 3.1 rather than S 3.2? the difference between 3.1 and 3.2 is that in 3.1 you are bypassing the protected resource (e.g. link) and force the traffic back to the original path. In 3.2, you send the traffic over the shortest path to the destination from the point of local repair. Why would you want the 3.1. behavior? One reason to keep the traffic on the original path as much as possible is to avoid overloading some of the links which would have to take additional traffic during protection time. > > of their topologies. Detecting microloops can be done during > topology computation (e.g.: SPF computation) and therefore > microloops-avoidance techniques may be applied. An example of such > Nit: "e.g., SPF" fixed > > network state. Traditionally, the lack of packet steering capability > made difficult to apply efficient solutions to microloops. A SPRING > enabled router could take advantage of the increased packet steering > Nit: "made it difficult" fixed. I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. thanks, Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > . > From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:42:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF091292AE; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:42:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gP_IQ44POkSS; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB176124205; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:42:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1879; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513258944; x=1514468544; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YGExvex/hJRs5tNUSDGHaPjowjFKo+7vYgyFxaIAPUM=; b=IarFMpfWqN4M8JM2Fs0xuYUs7z4dsPSsuFmGUD/sbt48VZ59TDf6zRPi kYMg+Yn093YlC1mlOWdE4qTOVxZ+1uhpGBXZAWTHTXKS39T8ZkFSus9dp 7k/qbWweAq/JPnJTdXNxRJko97qXVBvitE2MOjWXSwgeHTlh5xJyrxhob o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BxAQBpfjJa/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYQkdCePF5APlxYUggEKGA2ER08ChTcWAQEBAQEBAQEBayiFJAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMBATY2CgEQCxgJFgQLCQMCAQIBFTAGAQwBBQIBAYomEKsIEopgAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDYINkhRSDLgEBgToBEgGGFwWKS5hah32NLYIWhhK?= =?us-ascii?q?DbIdYjRWJWIE7JgExYFYYMhoIGxU6gimDCIFPQDcBiBGCOQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="906722" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 13:42:21 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEDgLmM007420; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:42:21 GMT Message-ID: <5A327FC2.4090409@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:42:26 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Roach , The IESG CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151318655848.30126.12687786142370669333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151318655848.30126.12687786142370669333.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:42:26 -0000 Hi Adam, I took the editor role from Stefano. Please see inline: On 13/12/17 18:35 , Adam Roach wrote: > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I *think* I found a minor issue. Section 5 contains the following text: > > Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not > last long enough and in general they are noticed during the time it > takes for the network to converge. > > I'm assuming this is intended to say "...are not noticed..."? not really. Microloops are noticed during the convergence time. I've added the "only" to the sentence, so it reads as follows: "Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not last long enough and in general they are only noticed during the time it takes for the network to converge." Hope it addresses your comment and makes the text clearer. I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. thanks, Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > . > From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:44:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19686126C83; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:44:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GsdeIECeatQ7; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88EA41250B8; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:44:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1568; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513259059; x=1514468659; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cBfovgNsNhTS7EjtlPFZ8rWgHfkT7z9fdMkRAnyBHA4=; b=jcqxbL5ZmRiFrenvJy8wOJqa380fRimfFos9B7xuGvMUFqRsC6adwiOm +cOaicTUvpLFTm5xno6ap6PNw+3B04jWPzjayL/sIKO8RB5x/Oxoujfu0 I1G+NzP5OihwKrVJik2AdoR8gWz6JWk1wPJUJ96LUUWcGbDGNjjqcOx0q 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="863222" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 13:44:17 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEDiGo9024479; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:44:16 GMT Message-ID: <5A328035.5050106@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:44:21 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise , The IESG CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151316581858.30031.2239162146662252569.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151316581858.30031.2239162146662252569.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:44:21 -0000 Hi Benoit, I took the editor role from Stefano. Please see inline: On 13/12/17 12:50 , Benoit Claise wrote: > Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Some redundancy in the intro first two paragraphs.: > > This document reviews various use cases for the protection of > services in a SPRING network. The terminology used hereafter is in > line with [RFC5286] and [RFC5714]. > > This document reviews various use cases for the protection of > services in a SPRING network. removed the above duplicated sentence. I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. thanks, Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > . > From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:52:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFD1126C83; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:52:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U_vyZNhOoyIr; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFE22124205; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:52:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2208; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513259554; x=1514469154; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IA6n1cOKXaLoZTU4V6InNkEJt8Yi4bMXktkfJCwRzWM=; b=kPne9mav16DxwB+d4DaQdS/ABeEPxVR6NMinnICI0eYcOGwN/Mmgyv+p In98l3QWHVZ3Fm7Op5ywzJF9MgqCOrNEsg1TWW7le7gYyYZF0bTuEwKGn rqQ817aoumhZ19hhcyag2AD36skfGqJdydWzH4M+ceorL6BGO0QpAfryq s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BxAQDAgDJa/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYQkdCePF5APlxYUggEKGA2ER08ChTYXAQEBAQEBAQEBayiFJAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMBATY2CgEQCxIGCRYECwkDAgECARUiDgYBDAEFAgEBiiYQqw8SimABAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYNgg2SBaYMrgy4BAYE6ARIBhhcFikuYWod9jS2?= =?us-ascii?q?CFoYSg2yHWI0ViViBOyEDNGBWGDIaCBsVOoIpgwiBT0A3AYgRgjkBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="856970" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 13:52:32 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEDqVgC002520; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:52:31 GMT Message-ID: <5A328224.9040403@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:52:36 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Campbell , The IESG CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151322180839.6182.11669409384842071154.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151322180839.6182.11669409384842071154.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:52:36 -0000 Hi Ben, I took the editor role from Stefano. Please see inline: On 14/12/17 04:23 , Ben Campbell wrote: > Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - Requirements Language: The 2119 keywords in this draft are not used in the > sense of RFC 2119. That RFC talks explicitly about interoperability among > protocol implementations. This draft uses them to define requirement for > protocol and architecture design. That's not necessarily a problem, but please > change the Requirements Language section to describe the actual usage. do you have an example of what exactly should we put in the Requirements Language? Is it sufficient to say following? The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", and "MAY" in this document are used to define requirements for protocol and architecture design." > > -2, third paragraph from end: "o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to > compute paths that MUST NOT be protected by local repair techniques..." The > MUST NOT seems a statement of fact. Consider something to the effect of "... > compute paths that are not protected by local repair techniques..." agree. Changed to "are not protected" I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. thanks, Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > . > From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:59:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9F0124205; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:59:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2UbRjpXfYfnW; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 143AB120721; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:59:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2573; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513259974; x=1514469574; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cAjhYG97a4Qt+YoiQvF1EnzozeaJ0IYZJAUkEzCDThk=; b=VmILul4xjN6x5C+ix8eQl7Z0VUZGlg4juOBFbLn2H2A2ZlHyhp7bt7W3 J5msM1jYDtzwURZJ00RzGIGCVEh7AynsOkt1hi9HNMhtpDwa69Zgzk2Kr kOT+pp2SB4F2aX0PPa49VnC34ERvf0GCY4U9PaMEteFOIGVSZBZtxDuSv s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BxAQAdgzJa/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYQkdCePF5APlxYUggEKGA2ER08ChTcWAQEBAQEBAQEBayiFIwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQECAQEBNjYKARALGAkWBAsJAwIBAgEVMAYBDAEFAgEBih4IEKsNEopfAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDYINkhRSDLgEBgToBEgGGFwWKS5hah32NLYI?= =?us-ascii?q?WhhKDbIdYjRWJWIE7JgsnYFYYMhoIGxU6gimDCIFPQDcBiBGCOQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="857174" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 13:59:30 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEDxTbH004156; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:30 GMT Message-ID: <5A3283C7.3040400@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:59:35 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151322470621.6087.1349247326142190541.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151322470621.6087.1349247326142190541.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:59:36 -0000 Hi Spencer, I took the editor role from Stefano. Please see inline: On 14/12/17 05:11 , Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I agree with Ben's point about RFC 2119/8174 requirements keyword usage. For > example, I'm looking at the MUST NOT in > > A first protection strategy consists in excluding any local repair > but instead use end-to-end path protection where each SPRING path is > protected by a second disjoint SPRING path. In this case local > protection MUST NOT be used. > > and wondering why that's normative. I would have guessed that the point was, > "if you use local protection, you're not carrying out the end-to-end path > protection strategy that this section describes", but that isn't an RFC > 2119/8174 interoperation keyword thing. What am I missing here? tend to agree, changed the last sentence in that paragraph to: "In this case, the local protection is not used along the path." > > I agree with Adam's confusion about > > Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not > last long enough and in general they are noticed during the time it > takes for the network to converge. > > I assumed that this was supposed to say something like > > Usually, in a normal routing protocol operations, microloops do not > last long enough to be noticed during the time it > takes for the network to converge. agreed, changed the text to the above proposed text. I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. thanks, Peter > > but the current text isn't clear. > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > . > From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:34:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF41126C89; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:34:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NCEfUDl_iLI2; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F055C126D3F; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:34:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3769; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513262053; x=1514471653; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZLItXJXB74wExo7jn3Cn1je2xdoxjNg79me60DktQbE=; b=LtRDH1AYxGeIRHlVeR/JUHjrMFR5PZaooxgI7fs5ClikVjCW4z+AwWjV YeUyBTXqnaUoyjDgQqQT57dUEFS3QXWaf2DxnJezALO+V1yhRFqGnjUOf RqrFasYWpXva0E/Hbz+eBxVNo57eRbM6aUrUcpWZQAT84EjD1rjlK+xd7 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B0AQAvizJa/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYQkdCeEAosVkA+XKoIBChgNhEdPAoU4FQEBAQEBAQEBAWsohSM?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAgEBASEPAQU2CgEQCxIGAgIFFgQHAgIJAwIBAgEVIgMLBgEMAQUCAQGKH?= =?us-ascii?q?ggQqHeCFRKKXwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ+CUYNkgWmDK4MuAQG?= =?us-ascii?q?BKREBEgGDNIJjBYpLmFqHfY0tghaGEoNsJIc0jRWJWIE7NSNgVhgyGggbFTqCK?= =?us-ascii?q?YMIgU9ANwGIAgIFCBgHghoBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="908579" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 14:34:08 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEEY7H2005161; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:34:08 GMT Message-ID: <5A328BE5.7030602@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:34:13 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= , The IESG CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151325611730.6112.10921253066764453945.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151325611730.6112.10921253066764453945.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:34:16 -0000 Hi Mirja, I took the editor role from Stefano. Please see inline: On 14/12/17 13:55 , Mirja Kühlewind wrote: > Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I have a question which is probably simply the result of not having had time to > read all spring docs in detail: Can you maybe indicate how the requirements at > the end of section 2 have been addressed in the spring architecture doc? o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to compute paths that MUST NOT be protected by local repair techniques (as illustrated in the example of paths T1 and T2). one way of achieving this is to construct the path using the non-protected Adj-SIDs as specified in 3.4. of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13.txt. o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to instantiate pairs of disjoint paths on a topology based on a protection strategy (link, node or SRLG protection) and allow the validation or re- computation of these paths upon network events. there are multiple ways how disjoint paths can be provided - one is the usage of the internal or external PCE engine, which computed and encodes the disjoint paths as a set of SR segments. An alternative way is described in draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo. o The SPRING architecture MUST provide end-to-end liveness check of SPRING based paths. described in draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase > > And another question on section 3: Wouldn't it also make sense to have a > mechanism that reports if local repair was used and respectively the traffic > was not routed over the indicated path but a different one? I'm not sure I really understand what you are asking. Section 3 talks about the local repair mechanisms that pre-program the alternative paths before the failure and traffic uses them once the failure is encountered. I'm not sure why the traffic would not take it when the failure happens and why a reporting mechanism is required. > > And another comment on section 2: You write that you need a way to check the > liveness of a path if used for primary and backup, however, this is also true > for the case where the two paths are used with ECMP as it usually doesn't help > you that much if you only receive half of your packets. Only if you send all > packets over both paths, you don't need a active check, however, it should be > mentioned that this also needs more capacity and can therefore cause > unnecessary congestion. there is no intention to send same packet over multiple ECMP paths as that would be doubling the traffic. Liveness of each ECMP path can be independently monitored using mechanisms described in draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase. I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. thanks, Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:35:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B5F124B09; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:35:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Brus0_ShYWDQ; 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ZXNoaSBjYXVnaHQgdGhpcyBuaXQgdG9vKQ0KDQotLSA1dGggcGFyYWdyYXBoOiBJIGNhbid0IHBh cnNlIHRoZSBsYXN0IHNlbnRlbmNlLiAgW1JHXSBtZWUgdG9vIChhbmQgSSBhdXRob3IgaXQuLi4p LiBUYWtlc2hpIGNvbW1lbnRlZCB0aGlzIHNlbnRlbmNlIHRvbywgbmV3IHRleHQgcHJvcG9zYWwg d2FzIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLg0KDQotLSA2dGggcGFyYWdyYXBoOiAiQXMgc29vbiBhcyB0aGUgUE1T IGhhcyBhbiBpbmRpY2F0aW9uLCB0aGF0IGl0cyBJR1Agb3IgTVBMUyB0b3BvbG9neSBhcmUgc3Rh bGUuLi4iIFRoZSBjb21tYSBiZXR3ZWVuICJpbmRpY2F0aW9uIiBhbmQgInRoYXQiIHNob3VsZCBi ZSByZW1vdmVkLiAgICBbUkddIG9rICANCg== From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:38:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4224B1201F2; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:38:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Deborah Brungard To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, bruno.decraene@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151326229226.6146.10262271999408029894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:38:12 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Deborah Brungard's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:38:12 -0000 Deborah Brungard has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Substantive Comments: General: I consider Informational status as appropriate. I found the draft title "oam-usecase" a bit misleading as the document is specifically about a centralized OAM system, but the document title is accurate so I'm ok as the draft title will not be visible once an RFC. "Framework and use cases" would of been more appropriate (to me). Because of the draft title, I found the document a bit confusing initially as I was not sure if "system" was used in the BFD sense e.g. a functional component or as hinted at initially, and as Section 4, Fig. 1 shows, a physically separate "system". Suggest it would help the reader to more clearly say this in the Abstract (the rtgdir reviewer also hinted at this). I'm not sure why the choice was to specifically specify a physically separate system? Why not as a functional component with a use case as being physically separate? And considering the document is scoped to a physically separate system, there is not much information on what is needed to support a physical separation (other AD comments). I'd suggest strongly to do a simple rewording to scope as a functional component. SDN architectures are based on functional components as everyone has different ideas on the physical location of a component and "functional" provides a flexibility. Suggest looking at RFC5623 on the VNTM component. Nits: I found multiple sentences lacked clarity/grammar. Ben noted several. Will depend if restructure to not preclude as a functional component. The first sentence of the abstract could be improved: a path monitoring/s/an MPLS path monitoring From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:52:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AF0126D3F; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:52:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kathleen Moriarty To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, spring-chairs@ietf.org, bruno.decraene@orange.com, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151326314173.6120.12822589692671355692.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:52:21 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:52:22 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your work on this draft. I agree with Ben's first comment in that the purpose and continued flow of the draft aligned to that purpose could be made more clear. From nobody Thu Dec 14 11:18:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7949D128D44; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:17:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DersVdeGeTl6; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92DDF127342; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:17:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8216; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513279071; x=1514488671; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=mixvCbbGUEtW4iJmN+NQUPRlVHiAn7ZrMT9ltFqynaA=; b=bGv+3HbMNl0CTi0cGDhUsv0ISVhHsEx5BHXCbHy6WS0BAPiuU5LOQpe3 HWoE6I0TtL+Xtox1qtyJpqpIL9ewT8CZadqA5blIGJb5cKNbPd/fowHO8 BQeZ9MztPgp2XEqu7n10D1bwhUdYgczfTSJ4d5lx/OJNwXIqmAVTlbE1J w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D1AACWzTJa/5tdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYMPL2Z0JweDe4ohjwaBVyaIfI4aFIIBChgLhElPAhqEXT8YAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBayiFJAIBAwEBDBURMQkLEAIBHAYCJgICAh8GCxUQAgQBDQUbiXcDF?= =?us-ascii?q?RCpL4InhzcNgxsBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYEPglIEgW0hgVaBaSk?= =?us-ascii?q?LhWFEAYEyJC+CfjGCMgWKZ4cuhyeJLD0Ch3uIL4R+ghaGEoVFhX+NFT6IbQIRG?= =?us-ascii?q?QGBOgEfOYFObxU6KgGBfoJTHIFneIlBAYEUAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,401,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="322066179" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 19:17:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com (xch-rcd-016.cisco.com [173.37.102.26]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEJHmtM011131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:17:48 GMT Received: from xch-aln-017.cisco.com (173.36.7.27) by XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com (173.37.102.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:17:47 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-017.cisco.com ([173.36.7.27]) by XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com ([173.36.7.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:17:47 -0600 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Stewart Bryant , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11 Thread-Index: AQHTai1XmuDZbRcyk0uMEAhFKsLriKNDsK4A Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:17:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151208207669.11941.1774085292828356059@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151208207669.11941.1774085292828356059@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.192.80] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7386CEDAD6C90A438CD5BA08F6A7405F@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-11 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:22:05 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:22:05 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Alissa Cooper , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdEIOG0UzK0e0qEeUmrtqvFiUQqNDenmw Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151319051482.30109.537791118842316529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151319051482.30109.537791118842316529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.160.57] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:22:09 -0000 QWxpc3NhIC0NCg0KSSB0aGluayBJIGFtIHByb3Blcmx5IHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgeW91ciBxdWVz dGlvbiAtIGJ1dCBhcyB5b3UgcmVmZXJlbmNlIHR3byBub24tZXhpc3RlbnQgc2VjdGlvbnMgaW4g DQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi02bWFuLXNlZ21lbnQtcm91 dGluZy1oZWFkZXItMDcNCg0KPHNuaXA+DQpTZWN0aW9uIDUuMi4yIG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtNm1h bi1zZWdtZW50LXJvdXRpbmctaGVhZGVyLi4uDQouLi4NClNlY3Rpb24gNS4xLjQgb2YgZHJhZnQt aWV0Zi02bWFuLXNlZ21lbnQtcm91dGluZy1oZWFkZXINCjxlbmQgc25pcD4NCg0KSSB3YW50IHRv IGJlIHN1cmUuDQpDb3VsZCB5b3UgcHJvdmlkZSBjb3JyZWN0ZWQgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyBhbmQvb3Ig dGhlIHByZWNpc2UgdGV4dCB3aGljaCByYWlzZXMgeW91ciBjb25jZXJuPw0KDQpUaGFueC4NCg0K ICAgIExlcw0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEFsaXNzYSBD b29wZXIgW21haWx0bzphbGlzc2FAY29vcGVydy5pbl0NCj4gU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBEZWNl bWJlciAxMywgMjAxNyAxMDo0MiBBTQ0KPiBUbzogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+ 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X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF717127369; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:27:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KQEuRI5hWcmX; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:27:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 418E0126D85; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:27:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.99] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vBENR6r7049288 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:27:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.99] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <31E110B3-2E70-4AEC-972B-C0AD7784355B@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C075FF4B-ADCC-48A5-A487-7674A602324A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:27:05 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: spring@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bruno.decraene@orange.com, iesg@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase@ietf.org To: "" References: <151322313115.6120.8756591218425505436.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:27:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C075FF4B-ADCC-48A5-A487-7674A602324A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Dec 14, 2017, at 3:56 AM, Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de wrote: >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 > thanks for your comments. I started to agree text changes with my = co-editor. Takeshi and you commented on the same sentence, which can't = be parsed. >=20 > Your comment: -10 --5th paragraph: I can't parse the last sentence. > Takeshi's comment: 3. This sentence "As it is necessary to know that = the information is > stale is order to follow the instruction, as is the case with for > example convergence events that may be ongoing at the time of > diagnostic measurement." is not easy to understand for me. I see = some typo > in this sentence as well. >=20 > This text proposal has been agreed between Carlos and me: >=20 > OLD: As it is necessary to know that the information is > stale is order to follow the instruction, as is the case with for > example convergence events that may be ongoing at the time of > diagnostic measurement. >=20 > NEW: To carry out a desired measurement properly, the PMS must be = aware of and respect the actual route changes, convergence events, as = well as the assignment of Segment IDs relevant for measurements. At a = minimum, the PMS must be able to listen to IGP topology changes, or pull = routing and segment information from routers signaling topology changes. Hi, That=E2=80=99s much easier to understand, thanks! Ben. [=E2=80=A6] --Apple-Mail=_C075FF4B-ADCC-48A5-A487-7674A602324A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlozCMkACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0wHg//e3Y0/mv/wILAJGQ1LCPstDQJ5ZTMdq/1NwuPvsJuUM5g3li+bdWQNJk/ lBJ4fAZ9FeG4vnlt0stU7F5riBdT0CieDrswEHsqBu1zHprBgNBLi8X0F8fhdgX/ s3Pc9HKxPdXRnLgLsGHnh0D95p3cGkLl8/w6q7RVwn+VR3yvU5roYIIGDv93BRp1 GPA5VL9EjeGL2WEMPX6FxIfxoOMTOEuV/3kZNtcUnZLO655zaFxtENseRGwccimU G2gZho8rZ/TSon98hZAkUQFAoLDwIx7sY5q/ElFTsz0Z6legsDk6H95EOIDBLvJG m5rxG+E20otLv8GVOFnkn98z5m7Zzu0E+TjT3ODxgo27NTrwB8jXuh9jiRyovsEV 7IqjbNFV0656pTril62swHtOCKeYevvq/CPPj9wwlCnFTXKdNwcPR9TkctAOOztG N5X7YSXQ6HjwRKPyAjMe8na/cYulf6qcjL4ERg2O3dPBb8XI45beZBaRBo/Vx00y g4GW53QBQu6XxjgPP9Dl9ytN2CvGJ9dFLAkfloE+Tf0NPMHWDfKnogY5q7fTLBHK i12cG6smbgMrerB/eRU17RH1w5Z4UqnFu/xwneFvdyG2xcq74/4YKgN1zFzGr2b/ qxJNoZsMBVTUpTiU1AC+4Yu5FVVcZRW8LRgvOye/UOEu/cx4RbY= =RWmJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_C075FF4B-ADCC-48A5-A487-7674A602324A-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 15:34:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF5B127843; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:34:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5kBBYwQKYQ33; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D55126DFF; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.99] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vBENY0ET050028 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:34:01 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.99] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8FBF5CC4-9701-4AD4-8FED-9830250370EF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:34:00 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: spring@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bruno.decraene@orange.com, iesg@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase@ietf.org To: "" References: <151322313115.6120.8756591218425505436.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:34:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8FBF5CC4-9701-4AD4-8FED-9830250370EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 HI, Thanks for your response. Additional comments inline. I removed sections = that do not seem to need further discussion. Thanks! Ben. > On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:33 AM, Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de wrote: >=20 [=E2=80=A6] >=20 > Substantive Comments: >=20 >=20 > - [BC] General: I note there has been discussion about why this draft = is Informational rather than something else. There's an explanation in = the shepherd's writeup. It would be helpful to have the same explanation = as a note in the draft. (People rarely read the shepherd's report once = an RFC is > published.) >=20 > [RG] I'd suggest to add this explanation as a last section of the = Introduction: >=20 > [I-D.ietf-mpls-spring-lsp-ping] discusses SR OAM applicability and > MPLS traceroute enhancements adding functionality to the use cases > described by this document. >=20 > NEW: The document describes both use cases and a standalone = monitoring framework. The monitoring system re-uses existing IETF OAM = protocols and leverage Segment Routing (Source Routing) to allow a = single device to both sends and receives its own probing packets. As a = consequence, there are no new interoperability considerations. Standard = Track is not required and Informational status seems appropriate. That helps, thanks! You might consider changing =E2=80=9Cseems = appropriate=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cis appropriate." >=20 > - [BC] 3, last paragraph: " Further options, like deployment of a PMS = connecting to the MPLS domain by a tunnel only require more thought, as = this implies security aspects." I have trouble parsing that. Is it = intended as an open issue, or a statement that the "further options" are = out of scope? Also, consider deleting the word "only". >=20 > [RG] >=20 > OLD: Further options, like > deployment of a PMS connecting to the MPLS domain by a tunnel only > require more thought, as this implies security aspects. MPLS so far > separates networks securely by avoiding tunnel access to MPLS > domains. >=20 > NEW: The option to connect a PMS to an MPLS domain by a tunnel may = be attractive to some operators. MPLS so far separates networks securely = by avoiding tunnel access to MPLS domains. Tunnel based access of a PMS = to an MPLS domain is out of scope of this document, as it implies = additional security aspects. That helps, thanks! >=20 >=20 > - [BC] 4.1, 2nd to last paragraph: > I'm not sure what to make of the "In theory at least," prefix. = Normally IETF RFCs are about what (we hope) works in _practice_. >=20 > [RG] > OLD: In theory at least, a single PMS is able to monitor data plane > availability of all LSPs in the domain. The PMS may be a router, = ..... >=20 > NEW: A single PMS can detect the complete MPLS control- and data = plane topology. A reliable deployment requires two separated PMS. = Scalable permanent surveillance of a set of LSPs could require = deployment of several PMS. The PMS may be a router, =E2=80=A6.. That works, but you might consider changing the first two sentences = along the following lines: =E2=80=9CWhile a single PMS can detect =E2=80=A6 , a reliable deployment = requires two separated PMS." >=20 >=20 > -- [BC] 10, last paragraph: I don't understand the intent of this = paragraph. >=20 > [RG] >=20 > OLD: A PMS may operate routine measurements. If these are = automated, care > must be taken to avoid unintended traffic insertion. On the other > hand, large scale operation based on operator configuration itself = is > a source of unintended misconfigurations and should be avoided. >=20 > NEW: A PMS may be configured to permanently surveil a set of LSPs. = Changes of the Segment Routing topology may occur at any time. The PMS = design must stop a permanent LSP measurement, as soon as it detects that = its locally stored SR domain topology information related to an LSP to = be monitored is stale. Sorry, I=E2=80=99m still not following it. Is the point that a PMS may = continuously monitor a set of LSPs, but it needs to stop doing that for = a particular LSP if that LSP changes? [=E2=80=A6] --Apple-Mail=_8FBF5CC4-9701-4AD4-8FED-9830250370EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlozCmgACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0Pvg//ShUoqaAhq/ourokKF7ovAih8QXO/Ro1lbXNXv6bcm0gMKlSBiI16Cvfh zLx54XPpB4/LPFGM8kMIdzXgADDvIZltdC767Uz0m8PbKSs3sQvz4uNLg8eFglMD 8brg0SFLmV/jMCfWYpqw55WG8Wh9Kcwt3qng2CKt1WlPCdenuU+UIZ9pU4cWeXTs WU7dp7+nXhMEsNOVxKA4Ypf/NgnWUHclndUgwtN+BbFGjQA14NbgDnXH9ybfF90P lH4VkEbJ9H5TrTb7UOMsiv39VSnNBDl/P098u78iVu2r7fZWSEqn2gW73AN7yZd5 XURED2tiKVby38XzQxIgt9vJMUrjbCc19erSZCHRvu6VBu0acRCCSVMLQIe9SS5k nn3wpkGTp8x8ZD69f7tmVTvqbZ1p7SoNVLbINVqo9oCiEothiDhwe6WT9LghX2Vm 9Yqs3V3VUgOJPHGJnhJO8Ik1ge5ZyU5cUzCg6noW7YkkTcKUTnFACb53CoZ23zKw pLiKhhIschVMhI22+I2mZuZLPBQzD/51eCDVvyqsNIwfeXRBFZV8gFcL5+0e7Uxf /dFPJ2IBNMZalDQK/0TFrSIA5pFnTsuJG3HHCIMtUXZWbh2q1TXeS9L48ihAGt4p 7B94DXVdaAaP/xQFYwe6NODR1C9g1A15wLnZJldTeUzD5Txh1dw= =MTpU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8FBF5CC4-9701-4AD4-8FED-9830250370EF-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 23:20:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B791127867; 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h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=UpRi+v YyviLcVlhuaAVJoJRJSsKgd1rY+8aG3P72iuQ=; b=hx+Ouo5XvCNb9/aKs9vLCF fI2PkWYujsFpr+RKUgYVaKn/q8XyBlDkpeVGIuOkb/fJ8YRhTdGFGCqWXnSTv9EZ IdfChry74xc6J746Sd87izD5yN9L0q9Yo7HCWkIiJFVPXNzhuwvFx3K1OuIFN4oH x2gNLydtHkTdZEYfuIrFCKwzgoY5QnVzTegy45m+2Zd5+FuQ/0e6yN/x4Wz3z6IF NlE+ByyAGwNkSpYGbMeIOd7QPRWEUGurU7c5ejdvsYiqmMCTGz+xycggVjwx+1b8 n+gNU8XfG7AUW/M4nNcr3GvITbNZVeuOw+y8RTsmfByDHPag2feSR2mcgIH0EuEA == X-ME-Sender: Received: from sjc-alcoop-8816.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.187]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 366597E2C7; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:43:49 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:43:49 -0500 Cc: IESG , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <81F49068-04C3-4FB4-A117-6521CE7D2AB0@cooperw.in> References: <151319051482.30109.537791118842316529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:43:54 -0000 > On Dec 14, 2017, at 6:22 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > Alissa - >=20 > I think I am properly understanding your question - but as you = reference two non-existent sections in=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-07 >=20 > > Section 5.2.2 of draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header... > ... > Section 5.1.4 of draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header > >=20 > I want to be sure. > Could you provide corrected references and/or the precise text which = raises your concern? My apologies, for some reason I was looking at = draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-05 instead of -07 when writing up = my ballot. s/5.1.4/6.1.4/ s/5.2.2/6.2.2/ Thanks, Alissa >=20 > Thanx. >=20 > Les >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:42 AM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org; = aretana.ietf@gmail.com; >> spring-chairs@ietf.org; martin.vigoureux@nokia.com; spring@ietf.org >> Subject: Alissa Cooper's Discuss on = draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: >> (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>=20 >> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: Discuss >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email >> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory >> paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I ended up reading draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header in tandem = with >> this document, and I have a question arising out of that. The trust = model for >> SRv6 outlined in this document appears to be one of reliance on the = fact that >> an SRH will only ever be inserted and appear within a single = administrative >> domain. >> But Section 5.2.2 of draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header talks = about an >> SRH being inserted by a device outside of the segment routing domain. >> Which is correct? I think this is an important question because the = whole >> trust model for the SR information seems to rely on out-of-band trust >> between participating nodes. >>=20 >> I also think this is important because there is no discussion in this = document >> of the impact of the inclusion of the SR metadata on the = fingerprinting of the >> device that inserted it. Section 5.1.4 of = draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing- >> header sort of alludes to this but seems to equate the capabilities = of an >> active attacker (who can conduct a traceroute) with a passive = attacker who >> could passively collect topology/fingerprinting information simply by >> observing SRHes flowing by on the network. If the limitation to a = single >> administrative domain is meant to prevent such a passive attack (not = sure if >> that is really true, but perhaps the document assumes it?), that's = another >> reason that the existence of such a limitation needs to be clarified. >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >>=20 >> Per my DISCUSS comment, I think this document needs to include some >> considerations concerning the additional metadata that SRv6 adds to = the >> packet. >> This has implications not just for passive observers but also for any = node that >> logs the SRH. >>=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Dec 15 08:12:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD9F12932A; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:12:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EWyq6Q65xbSX; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48277124205; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:12:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5811; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513354321; x=1514563921; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fh4kMeQ8mxo7u1M7IN38N+vpao3PfVKTJb6B4vCKTEU=; b=Sx+qUHe/F/w6Ka/T6qLBDXEyjhPH6rildWzUEgVBYFxLrn6JN5IXCDH9 P2EfU4aEgJ0XiTWa3BZIbD2O4JbsJa2P5+MQztdDlrsfjhiQhVj8gNJvx tnfc/syNF09MuXb4hYnhEOdxtBi0NQDuR27wAspR7mBJgRuyTO8KqJV7R 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BzAQAh8zNa/xbLJq1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYQkdCeEAosVkBSXIBSCAQoYDYRHTwKFQRYBAQEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?jAQEBAwEBASEPAQU2CgEQCxIGAgIFFgQHAgIJAwIBAgEVIgMLBg0BBQIBAReKB?= =?us-ascii?q?wgQqRyCFRKKYQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ+CWoNkgWmDLIMuAQG?= =?us-ascii?q?BKREBCwcBgzSCYwWKTphoh36BG4wSghaGE4NsJIc4jRiJXYE7JgExYFcYMhoIG?= =?us-ascii?q?xU8gimDCIFPQDcBh3wCBQgYB4IbAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,405,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="939301" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Dec 2017 16:11:59 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.18] ([10.147.24.18]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBFGBwDe027702; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:11:58 GMT Message-ID: <5A33F455.9090406@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:12:05 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" CC: The IESG , stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com References: <151325611730.6112.10921253066764453945.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5A328BE5.7030602@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:12:05 -0000 Hi Mirja, please see inline: On 15/12/17 16:50 , Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: > Hi Peter, > > please see below. > >> Am 14.12.2017 um 15:34 schrieb Peter Psenak : >> >> Hi Mirja, >> >> I took the editor role from Stefano. >> >> Please see inline: >> >> On 14/12/17 13:55 , Mirja Kühlewind wrote: >>> Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> I have a question which is probably simply the result of not having had time to >>> read all spring docs in detail: Can you maybe indicate how the requirements at >>> the end of section 2 have been addressed in the spring architecture doc? >> >> o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to compute paths that MUST >> NOT be protected by local repair techniques (as illustrated in the >> example of paths T1 and T2). >> >> one way of achieving this is to construct the path using the non-protected Adj-SIDs as specified in 3.4. of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13.txt. >> >> >> o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to instantiate pairs of >> disjoint paths on a topology based on a protection strategy (link, >> node or SRLG protection) and allow the validation or re- >> computation of these paths upon network events. >> >> there are multiple ways how disjoint paths can be provided - one is the usage of the internal or external PCE engine, which computed and encodes the disjoint paths as a set of SR segments. An alternative way is described in draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo. >> >> >> o The SPRING architecture MUST provide end-to-end liveness check of >> SPRING based paths. >> >> described in draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase > > Thanks! Given these things are addressed in different doc, maybe it would make sense to give a respective reference to these docs...? this document specifies requirements without talking about any specific solutions. I'm not sure if adding a references to a documents that provide solutions for these would be appropriate. New solutions may become available over time and we do not want the be limited to those that exists today. > >> >> >>> >>> And another question on section 3: Wouldn't it also make sense to have a >>> mechanism that reports if local repair was used and respectively the traffic >>> was not routed over the indicated path but a different one? >> >> I'm not sure I really understand what you are asking. Section 3 talks about the local repair mechanisms that pre-program the alternative paths before the failure and traffic uses them once the failure is encountered. I'm not sure why the traffic would not take it when the failure happens and why a reporting mechanism is required. > > No, what I meant was just to inform the source that provided the SR information that the (pre-computer) local repair is in use instead of the originally indicated route. Given the fact that SR routing uses source routing, I just thought the source might want to know that the local repair was used instead. But that was just a thought... well, that may be problematic as many sources may be sending over the same primary path. > >> >>> >>> And another comment on section 2: You write that you need a way to check the >>> liveness of a path if used for primary and backup, however, this is also true >>> for the case where the two paths are used with ECMP as it usually doesn't help >>> you that much if you only receive half of your packets. Only if you send all >>> packets over both paths, you don't need a active check, however, it should be >>> mentioned that this also needs more capacity and can therefore cause >>> unnecessary congestion. >> >> there is no intention to send same packet over multiple ECMP paths as that would be doubling the traffic. > > Not for ECMP but that was the first point in section 2 describes. > >> Liveness of each ECMP path can be independently monitored using mechanisms described in draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase. > > Yes, what I was saying is more an editorial comment because the text only says that monitoring is need for option 3 in section 2 (primary/backup) and does not say anything about the need of monitoring for option 2 (ECMP) which is needed as well as you also say above. Please double-check the text there! I see. I suppose you are referring to the text that says: "It is essential that the primary and backup path benefit from an end- to-end liveness monitoring/verification." I can change the text to say: "It is essential that any path, primary or backup, benefit from an end-to-end liveness monitoring/verification". Would that be ok? thanks, Peter > > Mirja > >> >> I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you and other reviewers. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> > > . > From nobody Fri Dec 15 08:16:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79A9126BF6 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:16:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3LdpsQCz9iQz for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92358120227 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:16:44 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=KovNK2beA0s4FTBjGeltTyTqEfrkrA3mfLfjKZCo77CkPlWLYrYB80n6NNFL6WUMg2Em7s+fx0vXnZeo3nZxSkb3/wpD39R5BqR5ashCO0y7kMjBZnTVzSIgAPkVztZj2mUNRqyXEFwC+iVUMUJHn8uGoJbObWkXpACFL7iU2q4=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 23625 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2017 16:50:01 +0100 Received: from pd9e11f54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO ?192.168.178.33?) (217.225.31.84) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 15 Dec 2017 16:50:01 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <5A328BE5.7030602@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:50:00 +0100 Cc: The IESG , stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <151325611730.6112.10921253066764453945.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5A328BE5.7030602@cisco.com> To: Peter Psenak X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171215155001.23615.8519@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:16:47 -0000 Hi Peter, please see below. > Am 14.12.2017 um 15:34 schrieb Peter Psenak : >=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > I took the editor role from Stefano. >=20 > Please see inline: >=20 > On 14/12/17 13:55 , Mirja K=C3=BChlewind wrote: >> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-11: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I have a question which is probably simply the result of not having = had time to >> read all spring docs in detail: Can you maybe indicate how the = requirements at >> the end of section 2 have been addressed in the spring architecture = doc? >=20 > o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to compute paths that MUST > NOT be protected by local repair techniques (as illustrated in = the > example of paths T1 and T2). >=20 > one way of achieving this is to construct the path using the = non-protected Adj-SIDs as specified in 3.4. of = draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13.txt. >=20 >=20 > o SPRING architecture MUST provide a way to instantiate pairs of > disjoint paths on a topology based on a protection strategy = (link, > node or SRLG protection) and allow the validation or re- > computation of these paths upon network events. >=20 > there are multiple ways how disjoint paths can be provided - one is = the usage of the internal or external PCE engine, which computed and = encodes the disjoint paths as a set of SR segments. An alternative way = is described in draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo. >=20 >=20 > o The SPRING architecture MUST provide end-to-end liveness check of > SPRING based paths. >=20 > described in draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase Thanks! Given these things are addressed in different doc, maybe it = would make sense to give a respective reference to these docs...? >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> And another question on section 3: Wouldn't it also make sense to = have a >> mechanism that reports if local repair was used and respectively the = traffic >> was not routed over the indicated path but a different one? >=20 > I'm not sure I really understand what you are asking. Section 3 talks = about the local repair mechanisms that pre-program the alternative paths = before the failure and traffic uses them once the failure is = encountered. I'm not sure why the traffic would not take it when the = failure happens and why a reporting mechanism is required. No, what I meant was just to inform the source that provided the SR = information that the (pre-computer) local repair is in use instead of = the originally indicated route. Given the fact that SR routing uses = source routing, I just thought the source might want to know that the = local repair was used instead. But that was just a thought... >=20 >>=20 >> And another comment on section 2: You write that you need a way to = check the >> liveness of a path if used for primary and backup, however, this is = also true >> for the case where the two paths are used with ECMP as it usually = doesn't help >> you that much if you only receive half of your packets. Only if you = send all >> packets over both paths, you don't need a active check, however, it = should be >> mentioned that this also needs more capacity and can therefore cause >> unnecessary congestion. >=20 > there is no intention to send same packet over multiple ECMP paths as = that would be doubling the traffic. Not for ECMP but that was the first point in section 2 describes. > Liveness of each ECMP path can be independently monitored using = mechanisms described in draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase. Yes, what I was saying is more an editorial comment because the text = only says that monitoring is need for option 3 in section 2 = (primary/backup) and does not say anything about the need of monitoring = for option 2 (ECMP) which is needed as well as you also say above. = Please double-check the text there! Mirja >=20 > I will post the new revision once we close on all open items from you = and other reviewers. >=20 > thanks, > Peter >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Dec 18 02:18:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3D9127419; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:17:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151359227494.28755.5427462530663101465@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:17:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 10:17:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : IPv6 SPRING Use Cases Authors : John Brzozowski John Leddy Clarence Filsfils Roberta Maglione Mark Townsley Filename : draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2017-12-18 Abstract: The Source Packet Routing in Networking (SPRING) architecture describes how Segment Routing can be used to steer packets through an IPv6 or MPLS network using the source routing paradigm. This document illustrates some use cases for Segment Routing in an IPv6 only environment. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Dec 18 04:29:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0E0127867; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 04:29:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151360017699.3510.6171928354831473662@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 04:29:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-10.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:29:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : A Scalable and Topology-Aware MPLS Dataplane Monitoring System Authors : Ruediger Geib Clarence Filsfils Carlos Pignataro Nagendra Kumar Filename : draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-10.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-12-18 Abstract: This document describes features of an MPLS path monitoring system and related use cases. Segment based routing enables a scalable and simple method to monitor data plane liveliness of the complete set of paths belonging to a single domain. The MPLS monitoring system adds features to the traditional MPLS Ping and LSP Trace, in a very complementary way. MPLS topology awareness reduces management and control plane involvement of OAM measurements while enabling new OAM features. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Dec 18 09:14:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36FA126CBF; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:14:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases@ietf.org, Bruno Decraene , spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bruno.decraene@orange.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <151361724265.3499.11882548116999614143.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:14:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Document Action: 'IPv6 SPRING Use Cases' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:14:03 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IPv6 SPRING Use Cases' (draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-12.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Source Packet Routing in Networking Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/ Technical Summary The objective of this document is to illustrate some use cases that need to be taken into account by the Source Packet Routing in Networking (SPRING) architecture in the context of an IPv6 environment. Working Group Summary This document has been in the WG for a while; nothing notable to call out. Document Quality The document is clear and has been reviewed by the spring and 6man WGs. As part of the original spring WG charter use cases were defined -- the AD requested the WG to not publish the use cases and focus on the solutions (architecture, etc.), but the WG reached consensus wanting to still publish. Personnel Bruno Decraene is the Document Shepherd. Alvaro Retana is the Responsible Area Director. RFC Editor Note Please publish the following documents in order (ascending RFC numbers, but contiguous numbers are not needed), and before any other draft-ietf-spring-* or segment routing related documents: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing From nobody Mon Dec 18 09:37:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00B2126579 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:37:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NB0-bwVTTQcb for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 877321200F1 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vBIHboEr022225 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:37:50 GMT Received: from 950129200 (59.200.112.87.dyn.plus.net [87.112.200.59]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vBIHbnu8022219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:37:50 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'spring'" Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:37:42 -0000 Message-ID: <05de01d37826$e92ae830$bb80b890$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdN4JuWMNX8fhcFlQ3S3a6aS/2oZig== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.2.0.1013-23538.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--17.302-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--17.302-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: wPPG8jVh+otqvFIBgzDhg6fXIl6Cf6VrQRPZCRdX9cK5fnCyVj/ZWYzc Eu1Qk2CXcJlJinJCpEFZQe5811ckCr+gVyuD/4tWKWuiyZLRI4CRPtwwl97om53BT+pdjEe8Tgp zWPQpDCXNoITtIFxIiGUob2I/pA8+5kdGOa0+fA79zT4slMys3S3S35ohUu372oLGTNKlb9d/9t MKhlGm0tfuVYj742WozFsiSx/yBgvyha4uErRN/biMC5wdwKqdh8Ytn75ClDP0NSuQztbtQ59Br MObLsvYTXizGt9BdLS2rpc7g/WvZUj7ejO32BAynVTWWiNp+v9BldmDYjwlplCu38Uk9QhY5BaI /Nccq/J6diSd4bhn2qpfKHXwH61n8kcOYlEHS0OUa50su1E7W6KaxHqGRwkCMKZRiezcUtOJ0yg pLlCV0DOgGA0VcrrLA+QoR9RNCkrXna8b0aHzf0M/y5EMs/JmKV8k8FQWsaWMCACDStb7tcYPT8 27NXwLgEBR2HjnXiv27vlZQBKDdDcpdZ3fQiLdOX/V8P8ail3InWAWA4yE6foA9r2LThYYKrauX d3MZDUD/dHyT/Xh7Q== Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Request for review: draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-interconnect-02.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:37:56 -0000 Hi, In Singapore I described this draft to the WG. My last slide said: ----- Is it helpful to have this type of document? - Some people say "It's just a white paper. Publish it elsewhere." - Some people say "This is really helpful to understand how all of the pieces of IETF work fit together for a real deployment." The authors plan to keep this draft alive as a framework for discussion - It seems to us (the authors) that SPRING is a good place to have those discussions ------ I expected some pushback, but I think the response in the room was somewhere between benign indifference and general support. So we did some house-keeping, cleaned up the text a bit and fixed some references. If anyone has some time to read the latest revision, your comments on content or clarity would be helpful. Thanks, Adrian > ________________________________________ > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: 18 December 2017 17:25:49 (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London > To: John E Drake; Adrian Farrel > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-interconnect- > 02.txt > > A new version of I-D, draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-interconnect-02.txt > has been successfully submitted by Adrian Farrel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-farrel-spring-sr-domain-interconnect > Revision: 02 > Title: Interconnection of Segment Routing Domains - Problem Statement and > Solution Landscape > Document date: 2017-12-18 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 33 > URL: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.ietf.org_internet-2Ddrafts_draft-2Dfarrel-2Dspring-2Dsr-2Ddomain- > 2Dinterconnect-2D02.txt&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=uMf2AvUxVCBheNFdVy1Y_8kG3CPWoDoPEbxx8m859_Q > &m=l2p-pmPEY_yiZ-lFk5fvLeUHjrpuU4uz5ehspbc8igU&s=UNj2lX7a-TG- > 9SmofiYumEIVSWszL6Fvkn1ZDEbAE6E&e= > Status: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dfarrel-2Dspring-2Dsr-2Ddomain- > 2Dinterconnect_&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=uMf2AvUxVCBheNFdVy1Y_8kG3CPWoDoPEbxx8m859_Q > &m=l2p-pmPEY_yiZ- > lFk5fvLeUHjrpuU4uz5ehspbc8igU&s=bdnFEuQn4Ey7Hrpzli6mCpxG19Lr8dnB9fi4U > LL0DcQ&e= > Htmlized: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dfarrel-2Dspring-2Dsr-2Ddomain- > 2Dinterconnect-2D02&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=uMf2AvUxVCBheNFdVy1Y_8kG3CPWoDoPEbxx8m859_Q > &m=l2p-pmPEY_yiZ- > lFk5fvLeUHjrpuU4uz5ehspbc8igU&s=jM_KdTr2tTC_04be2woO8a- > toA4b1wR5HEJftZQ3gPo&e= > Htmlized: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dfarrel-2Dspring-2Dsr-2Ddomain- > 2Dinterconnect-2D02&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=uMf2AvUxVCBheNFdVy1Y_8kG3CPWoDoPEbxx8m859_Q > &m=l2p-pmPEY_yiZ- > lFk5fvLeUHjrpuU4uz5ehspbc8igU&s=Ddr0Iue5sjlBxxDzyJAbRK5jNWyVvDCROsXO > xmqoqVo&e= > Diff: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dfarrel-2Dspring-2Dsr-2Ddomain- > 2Dinterconnect-2D02&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=uMf2AvUxVCBheNFdVy1Y_8kG3CPWoDoPEbxx8m859_Q > &m=l2p-pmPEY_yiZ- > lFk5fvLeUHjrpuU4uz5ehspbc8igU&s=TrDWmdv0k3XahcZ0COvkAVF4PV4ppe0JcU > 71A2uHbTI&e= > > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) is a popular forwarding paradigm for use in MPLS > and IPv6 networks. It is typically deployed in discrete domains that > may be data centers, access networks, or other networks that are > under the control of a single operator and that can easily be > upgraded to support this new technology. > > Traffic originating in one SR domain often terminates in another SR > domain but must transit a backbone network that provides > interconnection between those domains. > > This document describes a mechanism for providing connectivity > between SR domains to enable end-to-end or domain-to-domain traffic > engineering. > > The approach described allows connectivity between SR domains, > utilizes traffic engineering mechanisms (RSVP-TE or Segment Routing) > across the backbone network, makes heavy use of pre-existing > technologies, and requires the specification of very few additional > mechanisms. > > This document provides some background and a problem statement, > explains the solution mechanism, gives references to other documents > that define protocol mechanisms, and provides examples. It does not > define any new protocol mechanisms. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat From nobody Mon Dec 18 23:01:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B6A1205F0; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 23:01:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.529 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.529 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7SEpmJaWcC5Y; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 23:01:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6403E1243F6; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 23:01:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=27730; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513666875; x=1514876475; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=8ld6YFQ47SDqQeIU0G/EVdRNrw0Bgc6oq3NdcUivEbk=; b=LN+vcyEJsMYH/wT9hW5WYg2EPd4iLKjJwJDxn06jO0vqpwzBoA9N/Nx5 DLjZKZi5+7dbSfjZviClcNeXfuyhISzqtIoZA7w1paD/RcLuBcatIOpWB ikJNy2ISnFq7/x8OppIDOJAl9jQx9Iwa6OoDHf+csv7N1uJpnKsCCxt08 U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AgAgBjuDha/49dJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJKdGZ0JweDf5ksgVomiQGOIBSCAQqFOwIahG1AFwEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAWsohSMBAQEBAyNWEAIBBgIOAwMBAhYLBwMCAgIfERQJCAIEAQ0FG4ksTAMVj?= =?us-ascii?q?UmdbIInJocZDYMmAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYNugg6BVoFpKQyCd4J?= =?us-ascii?q?qRYEpZRYJglYxgjIFmV6JIj0CkC2EfoIWhhWLS4pNgw2IcgIRGQGBOgEgATeBT?= =?us-ascii?q?28VZgGBfoJTHIFneIkwgRUBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.45,425,1508803200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="46471150" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Dec 2017 07:01:14 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (xch-rtp-015.cisco.com [64.101.220.155]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBJ71DtR010822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Dec 2017 07:01:14 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 02:01:13 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 02:01:12 -0500 From: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" To: Alvaro Retana , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@Ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" Thread-Topic: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 Thread-Index: AQHTQ4FPG6nbfTr8mEmw4rwyUO5SEg== Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 07:01:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <998FE834-F9C6-43F2-8D10-30EE14CCECB6@cisco.com> <114895D1-093E-4D91-873B-0F64E9EE9EA0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.36.241] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AC082436EA2E4C1C98262E3EA89CFB2Dciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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Malis" , "" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe.all@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHTeJdak905bBW/OkeB9R28AlpzUg== Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 07:02:37 +0000 Message-ID: <752DC27F-7007-4134-BCAB-ED4F61F7B490@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.36.241] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_752DC27F70074134BCABED4F61F7B490ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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\(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 07:02:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Segment Routing Centralized BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Gaurav Dawra Ebben Aries Dmitry Afanasiev Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-08.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-12-18 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction topological or service-based. SR allows to enforce a flow through any topological path while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. The Segment Routing architecture can be directly applied to the MPLS dataplane with no change on the forwarding plane. It requires a minor extension to the existing link-state routing protocols. This document illustrates the application of Segment Routing to solve the BGP Egress Peer Engineering (BGP-EPE) requirement. The SR-based BGP-EPE solution allows a centralized (Software Defined Network, SDN) controller to program any egress peer policy at ingress border routers or at hosts within the domain. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 19 00:07:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8477124205; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:07:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fF4DKvja9N6b; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout34.telekom.de (MAILOUT34.telekom.de [194.25.225.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2650A12DA07; 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Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:06:30 +0000 From: To: , CC: , , , , , Thread-Topic: Deborah Brungard's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-oam-usecase-09: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdOlBoJ3T6Sk7jkCIHtAaipg4qqNKUmgA Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:06:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151326229226.6146.10262271999408029894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151326229226.6146.10262271999408029894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de; x-originating-ip: [164.19.3.188] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; LEXPR01MB0096; 6:1EfQY3rvxuucDRKt9hdCFWAoXNNH67jnW9G4VbRXby0sZ6cqcaKXTxqiKMk8Gz/egdeFLt0dkbcoBuMlZLG+akyxCfAuS8pK7hMMTcleicPdtd6YKcdM0PK0v9i8jhlIVEhQCszx5i5dj/bmic5U6vNkXE27gCHPzP6XFk3KnegpaUAfutGL+aIMrxBWQ42Wl/voYYMwGrVWAlIH7kSIdirv/ZJX4MWW+3n+tsqesJtTg+MyK5gAetG/HbggEBq84KvCbrNiFm+nzD5GTMVIbCWpp03t8jN+GXrcSvY71xJjMnaTdYB9C1zRj4HJ5oW8jvyIdqlz1lWfUHiV69KEBNmAvH8lSS+oBR30Kb+R7Xs=; 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bGQgYmUgaW1wcm92ZWQ6DQphIHBhdGggbW9uaXRvcmluZy9zL2FuIE1QTFMgcGF0aCBtb25pdG9y aW5nDQoNCg0K From nobody Tue Dec 19 00:51:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F05912D946; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:51:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151367351502.7415.8457234964917496618@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:51:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:51:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-Prefix Segment in large-scale data centers Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Jon Mitchell Ebben Aries Petr Lapukhov Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2017-12-19 Abstract: This document describes the motivation and benefits for applying segment routing in BGP-based large-scale data-centers. It describes the design to deploy segment routing in those data-centers, for both the MPLS and IPv6 dataplanes. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 19 00:59:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F359C12D84D; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:59:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HstBoi70gqY7; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A310126CC7; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 00:59:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5806; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513673992; x=1514883592; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=/9CYTznrpQHqT/7TBPvc1UjRorKIy3aELW2OgVd3d8Y=; b=dsyaTpR8XXmNlUMumAvtwxsdyBRYXE2akys7qF43VYuDTSGz/OlAhoJM lH0WzJ98WPnOWGlpyHcR8v7NYO64pgNcRgxIpM0Ox46v18FRP8+a9YbtI FgL0o6L2ZBDdpFQXQ26+nrDPLHpHXHvom/vEf7zHOP87PN6V+TYn/OJom E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CfAAB31Dha/4gNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM+ZnQnB4N/iiGPC5kmFIIBCiWFFgIahHE/GAEBAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohSQGIxFFEAIBCBIIAh8HAgICMBUCDgIEAQ0FG4oQEKsagieKcwEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ+CX4ISgVaBaSmDA4MvAQGBOgESAR84AoJbMYIyBYp?= =?us-ascii?q?OmHQCh36NLYIWhhWLS4pNgk+JMAIRGQGBOgEfOWBXGG8VZgGBfoJTHBmBTngBi?= =?us-ascii?q?AmBJYEVAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,425,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="46656319" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 19 Dec 2017 08:59:51 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBJ8xppV025222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:59:51 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 03:59:50 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 03:59:49 -0500 From: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" To: Ben Campbell , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTeKe5fJIPCbwE1UK1QLJy+D88Pw== Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:59:49 +0000 Message-ID: <09C7B72C-14D6-46A1-92E7-DB18569077B4@cisco.com> References: <151322405310.6099.6620242004144054598.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151322405310.6099.6620242004144054598.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.36.241] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9B755567685FA74FB5D8FFDAC70674E0@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767BF129C6E; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 06:42:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151369454444.7399.15359230880648114548@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 06:42:24 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 14:42:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Resiliency use cases in SPRING networks Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Bruno Decraene Rob Shakir Filename : draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2017-12-19 Abstract: This document identifies and describes the requirements for a set of use cases related to network resiliency on Segment Routing (SPRING) networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 19 09:07:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545F912DA01; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 09:07:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, The IESG , draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, Stephane Litkowski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <151370324834.7464.3433611593290203371.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 09:07:28 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Document Action: 'Resiliency use cases in SPRING networks' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:07:28 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Resiliency use cases in SPRING networks' (draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-12.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Source Packet Routing in Networking Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ Technical Summary This document identifies and describes the requirements for a set of use cases related to network resiliency on Segment Routing (SPRING) networks. Working Group Summary This draft has been discussed in the WG, with WG comments included in the revision of the draft. Most of discussions were around the path protection use case text. All comments have been correctly addressed by the authors leading to a better text that have consensus. Document Quality This document is an old document, and some use cases described already have implementations today. As part of the original spring WG charter use cases were defined -- the AD requested the WG to not publish the use cases and focus on the solutions (architecture, etc.), but the WG reached consensus wanting to still publish. Personnel Stephane Litkowski is the Document Shepherd. Alvaro Retana is the responsible Area Director. RFC Editor Note Please publish the following documents in order (ascending RFC numbers, but contiguous numbers are not needed), and before any other draft-ietf-spring-* or segment routing related documents: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing From nobody Wed Dec 20 00:44:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98AA127241 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 00:44:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HE-mNNj_4LL0 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 00:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B26A126CF9 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 00:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 3E5B41C0BEF for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:44:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.63]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 284944006A for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:44:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM6E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:44:22 +0100 From: To: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 Thread-Index: AQHTeW0065aLk+pdxECA12vc6ayv3aNL6Y0A Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:44:21 +0000 Message-ID: <32140_1513759463_5A3A22E7_32140_256_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47926B1C@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <87ind1pzn8.fsf@chopps.org> In-Reply-To: <87ind1pzn8.fsf@chopps.org> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] FW: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:44:26 -0000 FYI: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd is currently in WG last call in th= e IS-IS WG It's an IS-IS extension to advertise the maximum number of Segment Routing = segments that a node can push. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 -----Original Message----- From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christian Hopps Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 9:33 AM To: isis-wg@ietf.org Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ which will last an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO patterns. An IPR statement exists: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-i= sis-segment-routing-msd Authors please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware of any *new* IPR. Thanks, Chris. _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Wed Dec 20 10:37:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546A9129C6E; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:37:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5lQYNfPz7UAy; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:36:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x236.google.com (mail-oi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21EF41267BB; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x236.google.com with SMTP id w125so15268272oie.7; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:36:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/d9cFXnE9xpuIZkUn/rjhOY398xP1aB5NSDFRk/bG5w=; b=VQU+5lddZQV6sAx5rE01Yh9YHgU7vuLo85wJvhSlX3wVklTHU/KAJ4fYzJBrSxXpYQ xuz1JWKI3bwTkKBuAum2sSa8rXhbdZbC9xxUo9xz0q9n95aGMbxDS+O3wW/+kCP1NN3k WRUI5D2PKO2xgXwFlf7taRqHOuhVwvt0Zlq+nkGStSiweOh3t9QWNAU9YUGNeta/E0GQ zRa3gmKpMxiQe3oqA9DKGRsQdfFezbZteSyLljxllOSOBekMBmym5wa1ZXIFOf1Wj0K+ 7KM7g/VhD8uLAMZChADonG8DKswV0TtqKt1zNS4sAoS0cuFnsBsaZJt5CBqNjRxD4jO9 ov/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/d9cFXnE9xpuIZkUn/rjhOY398xP1aB5NSDFRk/bG5w=; b=AmSja1sXamRBH74YKuph9MaewBEahSKykFU2+gebHaII4bNpqsCQStx/kTdMgnHgHT 9qcn/rwMUW7O89ZfonX5tpqL4HW+TgUbPOZ7gkV1DtHjbJGCrMHy68f9PINyQvIbcWTi L/Dc1I0GDUKbJC9Z8Z4U/84GdkYf1kqfPTiGjV5tEeLU3PPHO9Zb8Glzrr36yoM9I+fX TQwAu7kYF9tluebVyuqBLpEHuxwqRDJeZbA+mxmbC2RLn9BvyAVCRN3Bc5tXBwh69hEQ rIIydMhHnZKJD/y66s/gdvOrdu4PWK8DPyhXEKA871dUDcRAxB+xbKFD69HZyEi/TQGJ k6RA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJSORzWkp2G+kqH9m+ElD7L1uiwttB79wo0LtrTHqat2t4lK5uL 3x3CDcWbSjhNuz2cA55UVEeLTEbVjJvJmzRrw7Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovgMtis0ZmwHBt6T5+Dj4YNj3G0JSYBbXX2BGm1a5E/pk+9dltbkbmfxAqngIBCw6Jzikb1Dd/BdEjJ902c5VI= X-Received: by 10.202.214.17 with SMTP id n17mr5646683oig.46.1513795015125; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:36:54 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana X-Mailer: Airmail (467) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 13:36:54 -0500 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop@ietf.org Cc: spring-chairs@ietf.org, Martin Vigoureux , spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113adb4023af5a0560c9de8a" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-09 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 18:37:01 -0000 --001a113adb4023af5a0560c9de8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear authors: I just finished reading this document. I have some Major comments below that I would like to see addressed before starting the IETF LC. Thanks for your work on this document. Alvaro. Major: M1. From Section 2: "An MCC, operating at node N, MUST ensure that the incoming label it installs in the MPLS data plane of Node N has been uniquely allocated to himself.=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99m sure this sentence is = not meant as a new Normative statement for all MCCs, right? I think that the =E2=80=9CMUS= T=E2=80=9D is out of place since the text is really stating a fact. s/MUST/must M2. SRMS Definition and Operation M2.1. Section 4.2.1. (SR to LDP Behavior) uses normative language to describe the operation of the SRMS in ways that I think are not needed for interoperability. M2.1.1. "The SRMS MUST be configured by the operator in order to advertise Node-SIDs on behalf of non-SR nodes.=E2=80=9D Section 4.2 already says that "The map= pings advertised by one or more SRMSs result from local policy information configured by the operator.=E2=80=9D, so the sentence in 4.2.1 is at best redundant. In any case, what can be enforced from a specification point of view by that =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D? s/MUST/must M2.1.2. "At least one SRMS MUST be present in the routing domain. Multiple SRMSs SHOULD be present for redundancy.=E2=80=9D These MUST|SHOULD seem to indic= ate a statement of fact. Again, from a specification point of view, what can be enforced? s/MUST|SHOULD/must|should. Note also that in 7.2 the text says that "Multiple SRMSs can be provisioned in a network for redundancy.=E2=80= =9D, which seems to be the right thing (no Normative language). M2.2. Section 7.2. says that "a preference mechanism may also be used among SRMSs so to deploy a primary/secondary SRMS scheme=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6but no = other details are included. This document is where the SRMS is first defined, so I would expect this detail to also be included here. I note that Section 3.1. (SID Preference) of draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution contains the preference specification. Please move that section to this document. M2.3. Section 7.2 also says that: "When the SRMS advertise mappings, an implementation SHOULD provide a mechanism through which the operator determines which of the IP2MPLS mappings are preferred among the one advertised by the SRMS and the ones advertised by LDP.=E2=80=9D First off,= I think that the SHOULD is out of place because it is not specifying any specific action (the mechanism is not explicit). Second, this statement (with the Normative SHOULD) is in conflict with (from 2.2. (IP2MPLS co-existence)): "if both LDP and SR propose an IP to MPLS entry (IP2MPLS) for the same IP prefix, then the LDP route SHOULD be selected.=E2=80=9D Solution: s/SHOULD= /should M3. Manageability Considerations M3.1. The text in Section 7.1. (SR and LDP co-existence) is almost the same as in Section 2.2. (IP2MPLS co-existence); the difference is that 7.1=E2=80= =99s first bullet says that "by default the LDP route MUST be selected=E2=80=9D,= while 2.2 uses SHOULD instead. Which one is it? Obviously, having the same text is two places adds nothing to the document =E2=80=94 please consolidate. M3.2. [minor] The last bullet in 7.1/2.2 says that the "policy MAY be locally defined. There is no requirement that all routers use the same policy.=E2=80=9D Given that in this case =E2=80=9Call routers=E2=80=9D rea= lly refers to the edge nodes (at the IP2MPLS boundary), it seems like it makes sense that either choice could be ok. Maybe I=E2=80=99m wrong, but I=E2=80=99m guessing that= giving preference to LDP (MUST/SHOULD above) has to do with the assumption that it is supported everywhere, while SR might not yet be=E2=80=A6so it supports t= he migration case in Section 3. Is that a reasonable guess? It would be nice, to provide some justification for the default LDP preference so that operators have a better idea of when it might be ok to use SR instead. M4. Security Considerations. I tend to agree that this document doesn=E2= =80=99t introduce anything new=E2=80=A6but it does specify something different. Th= e base SR-related advertisement by an IGP is done for the segments belonging to the local node, but the SRMS lets a node (any node, multiple nodes) adverse any mapping (for nodes that may be anywhere in the network) which may result in conflicting advertisements (in the best case), or even false ones. Cryptographic authentication (any any other current security mechanisms in IGPs) only verify that the information was not changed, but it doesn=E2=80=99t validate the information itself, which can then lead to conflicting and or false advertisements, which could =E2=80=9Ccompromise tr= affic forwarding=E2=80=9D. You should at least recognize that the risk exists, e= ven if no specific mitigation (except maybe strict configuration/programmability control by the operator) can be mentioned. M5. References: These references don=E2=80=99t need to be Normative and ca= n be made Informative: I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions, I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions, I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions. OTOH, this one should be Normative: RFC5036 Minor: P1. As with all the other SR-related documents, please take out =E2=80=9Cse= rvice chain=E2=80=9D from the text. P2. Please add References for "RSVP-TE, BGP 3107, VPNv4=E2=80=9D. BTW, no= te that rfc3107 has been obsoleted by rfc8277 =E2=80=94 you make references to =E2= =80=9CBGP3107=E2=80=9D routes/label. P3. Please define (or reference) the MPLS2MPLS, MPLS2IP and IP2MPLS terminology (only IP2MPLS is expanded). P4. From Section 3: =E2=80=9C...the SR infrastructure is usable, e.g. for F= ast Reroute (FRR) or IGP Loop Free Convergence to protect existing IP and LDP traffic. FRR mechanisms are described in [I-D.bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa].=E2=80=9D draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases may be a better reference. P5. Section 3: "However, any traffic switched through LDP entries will still suffer from LDP-IGP synchronization.=E2=80=9D While that statement i= s true, it seems out of place since there is no other discussion about LDP-IGP synchronization anywhere =E2=80=94 if you want to keep it, please add a ref= erence. P6. Sections 4 and 4.1.1 have very similar, redundant text. To avoid confusion, please consolidate it in one place. This is what I=E2=80=99m re= ferring to: 4: =E2=80=9C If the SR/LDP node operates in LDP ordered label distribution co= ntrol mode (as defined in [RFC5036]), then the SR/LDP node MUST consider SR learned labels as if they were learned through an LDP neighbor and create LDP bindings for each Prefix-SID and Node-SID learned in the SR domain." 4.1.1: " A SR node having LDP neighbors MUST create LDP bindings for each Prefix-SID and Node-SID learned in the SR domain and, for each FEC, stitch the incoming LDP label to the outgoing SR label. This has to be done in both LDP independent and ordered label distribution control modes as defined in [RFC5036]." Note that this same text (as in 4.1.1 above) is repeated exactly in 4.2.1 = =E2=80=94 where the SRMS is discussed. To me, it seems out of place there (4.2.1) as the behavior is true whether an SRMS is in use or not. In line with the above, it may be better to consolidate redundant text in one place =E2=80= =94 Section 4 seems good to me. Nits: N1. s/This draft(s)/This document N2. s/Ship-in-the-night/Ships-in-the-night N3. Please don=E2=80=99t use =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D, use the 3rd person inste= ad. Just a personal preference (=3D nit). N4. s/R-LFA/RLFA N5. Please put the reference for Option C when it is first mentioned. --001a113adb4023af5a0560c9de8a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Dear authors:

<= /font>
I just finished reading this document.=C2=A0 I have some Major = comments below that I would like to see addressed before starting the IETF = LC.

Thanks for your work on this document.

Alvaro.


<= /div>
Major:
<= font face=3D"Helvetica">
M1. From Section 2: "An MCC, = operating at node N, MUST ensure that the incoming label it=C2=A0installs in the MPLS data plane of Node = N has been uniquely allocated=C2=A0to himself.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0I=E2=80=99m sure this sentence is not meant= as a new Normative statement for all MCCs, right?=C2=A0 I think that the = =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D is out of place since the text is really stating a f= act. =C2=A0s/MUST/must


M2. SR= MS Definition and Operation

M2.1.=C2=A0Section=C2=A04.2.1. (SR to LDP Behav= ior) uses normative language to describe the operation of the SRMS in ways = that I think are not needed for interoperability.

M2.1.1. "The SRMS MUST be configured by the operator in order to a= dvertise=C2=A0Node-SIDs on beh= alf of non-SR nodes.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Section 4.2 already says that "The= mappings advertised by one or more SRMSs result from local policy=C2=A0information configured by the ope= rator.=E2=80=9D, so the sentence in 4.2.1 is at best redundant.=C2=A0 In an= y case, what can be enforced from a specification point of view by that =E2= =80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D? =C2=A0s/MUST/must

M2.1.2.= "At least one SRMS MUST be present in the routing domain.=C2=A0 Multi= ple=C2=A0SRMSs SHOULD be prese= nt for redundancy.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0These MUST|SHOULD seem to indicate a stat= ement of fact.=C2=A0 Again, from a specification point of view, what can be= enforced? =C2=A0s/MUST|SHOULD/must|should. Note also that in 7.2 the text = says that "Multiple SRMSs can be provisioned in a network for redundan= cy.=E2=80=9D, which seems to be the right thing (no Normative language).

M2.2. Section 7.2. says that "a preference = mechanism may also be used among SRMSs so to=C2=A0deploy a primary/secondary SRMS scheme=E2=80=9D=E2=80= =A6but no other details are included.=C2=A0 This document is where the SRMS= is first defined, so I would expect this detail to also be included here.= =C2=A0 I note that Section=C2=A03.1. (SID Preference) of=C2=A0draft-ietf-sp= ring-conflict-resolution contains the preference specification. Please move= that section to this document.

M2.3. Section = 7.2 also says that: "When the SRMS advertise mappings, an implementati= on SHOULD provide a=C2=A0mecha= nism through which the operator determines which of the IP2MPLS=C2=A0mappings are preferred among the one= advertised by the SRMS and the=C2=A0ones advertised by LDP.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0First off, I think that the S= HOULD is out of place because it is not specifying any specific action (the= mechanism is not explicit). Second, this statement (with the Normative SHO= ULD) is in conflict with (from=C2=A02.2. (IP2MPLS co-existence)): "if = both LDP and SR propose an IP to MPLS entry (IP2MPLS)=C2=A0for the same IP prefix, then the LDP route SHO= ULD be selected.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Solution: s/SHOULD/should

<= /font>

M3.=C2=A0Manageability Considerations

M3.1. T= he text in Section=C2=A07.1. (SR and LDP co-existence) is almost the same a= s in Section=C2=A02.2. (IP2MPLS co-existence); the difference is that 7.1= =E2=80=99s first bullet says that "by default the LDP route MUST be se= lected=E2=80=9D, while 2.2 uses SHOULD instead.=C2=A0 Which one is it?=C2= =A0 Obviously, having the same text is two places adds nothing to the docum= ent=C2=A0=E2=80=94 please consolidate.

M3.2. [= minor] The last bullet in 7.1/2.2 says that the "policy MAY be locally= defined.=C2=A0 There is no=C2=A0requirement that all routers use the same policy.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Given t= hat in this case =E2=80=9Call routers=E2=80=9D really refers to the edge no= des (at the IP2MPLS boundary), it seems like it makes sense that either cho= ice could be ok.=C2=A0 Maybe I=E2=80=99m wrong, but I=E2=80=99m guessing th= at giving preference to LDP (MUST/SHOULD above) has to do with the assumpti= on that it is supported everywhere, while SR might not yet be=E2=80=A6so it= supports the migration case in Section 3.=C2=A0 Is that a reasonable guess= ?=C2=A0 It would be nice, to provide some justification for the default LDP= preference so that operators have a better idea of when it might be ok to = use SR instead.


M4. Security = Considerations.=C2=A0 I tend to agree that this document doesn=E2=80=99t in= troduce anything new=E2=80=A6but it does specify something different.=C2=A0= The base SR-related advertisement by an IGP is done for the segments belon= ging to the local node, but the SRMS lets a node (any node, multiple nodes)= adverse any mapping (for nodes that may be anywhere in the network) which = may result in conflicting advertisements (in the best case), or even false = ones.=C2=A0 Cryptographic authentication (any any other current security me= chanisms in IGPs) only verify that the information was not changed, but it = doesn=E2=80=99t validate the information itself, which can then lead to con= flicting and or false advertisements, which could =E2=80=9Ccompromise traff= ic forwarding=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 You should at least recognize that the risk e= xists, even if no specific mitigation (except maybe strict configuration/pr= ogrammability control by the operator) can be mentioned.


M5. References: =C2=A0These references don=E2=80=99t need to be Normative and= can be made Informative: I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions,=C2=A0I-= D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions,=C2=A0I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-r= outing-extensions. =C2=A0OTOH,=C2=A0this on= e should be Normative:=C2=A0RFC5036
=C2=A0


=
Minor:

P1. As with all the other SR-related documents, please take out =E2=80= =9Cservice chain=E2=80=9D from the text.

P2. Please add References for "RSVP-TE, BGP 3107, VPNv4=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0 BTW,= note that rfc3107 has been obsoleted by rfc8277 =E2=80=94 you make referen= ces to =E2=80=9CBGP3107=E2=80=9D routes/label.
P3. Please define (or reference) the MPLS2MPLS= , MPLS2IP and IP2MPLS terminology (only IP2MPLS is expanded).
<= div id=3D"bloop_sign_1513706610244678144" class=3D"bloop_sign">
P4. From Section 3: =E2=80=9C= ...the SR=C2=A0infrastructure = is usable, e.g. for Fast Reroute (FRR) or IGP Loop=C2=A0Free Convergence to protect existing IP and LDP = traffic.=C2=A0 FRR mechanisms are described in=C2=A0[I-D.bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa].=E2=80=9D= =C2=A0draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases may be a better reference.
<= font face=3D"Helvetica">
P5. Section 3: "= ;However, any traffic switched through LDP entries will still=C2=A0<= span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica">suffer from LDP-IGP synchronization.= =E2=80=9D =C2=A0While that statement is true, it seems out of place since t= here is no other discussion about LDP-IGP synchronization anywhere =E2=80= =94 if you want to keep it, please add a reference.

P6. Sections 4 and 4.1.1 hav= e very similar, redundant text.=C2=A0 To avoid confusion, please consolidat= e it in one place.=C2=A0 This is what I=E2=80=99m referring to: =C2=A0

4:
=E2=80=9C =C2=A0If the SR/LDP node operates in LDP ordered label dis= tribution control
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mode (as defined i= n [RFC5036]), then the SR/LDP node MUST consider SR
=C2=A0 =C2=A0learned labels as if they were learned through an LDP neigh= bor and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0create LDP bindings for each= Prefix-SID and Node-SID learned in the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0SR domain."

4.1.1:
" =C2=A0A SR node having LDP = neighbors MUST create LDP bindings for each
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Prefix-SID and Node-SID learned in the SR domain and, for each FE= C,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0stitch the incoming LDP label to = the outgoing SR label.=C2=A0 This has to
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0be done in both LDP independent and ordered label distribution=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0control modes as defined in [RFC5036].&quo= t;

Note that this = same text (as in 4.1.1 above) is repeated exactly in 4.2.1 =E2=80=94 where = the SRMS is discussed.=C2=A0 To me, it seems out of place there (4.2.1) as = the behavior is true whether an SRMS is in use or not.=C2=A0 In line with t= he above, it may be better to consolidate redundant text in one place =E2= =80=94 Section 4 seems good to me.



Nits:

N1. s/Th= is draft(s)/This document

N2. s/Ship-in-the-night/Ships-in-the-night

N3. Please don=E2=80=99t use =E2=80=9Cwe= =E2=80=9D, use the 3rd person instead.=C2=A0 Just a personal preference (= =3D nit).

N4. s/R-LFA/RLFA

N5. Please put the reference for Opti= on C when it is first mentioned.
--001a113adb4023af5a0560c9de8a-- From nobody Wed Dec 20 14:39:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6830C1205D3; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151380956937.12753.5128198652541730018@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 14:39:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-14.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:39:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Segment Routing Architecture Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Les Ginsberg Bruno Decraene Stephane Litkowski Rob Shakir Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-14.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2017-12-20 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm. A node steers a packet through an ordered list of instructions, called segments. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service-based. A segment can have a semantic local to an SR node or global within an SR domain. SR allows to enforce a flow through any topological path while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress nodes to the SR domain. Segment Routing can be directly applied to the MPLS architecture with no change on the forwarding plane. A segment is encoded as an MPLS label. An ordered list of segments is encoded as a stack of labels. The segment to process is on the top of the stack. Upon completion of a segment, the related label is popped from the stack. Segment Routing can be applied to the IPv6 architecture, with a new type of routing header. A segment is encoded as an IPv6 address. An ordered list of segments is encoded as an ordered list of IPv6 addresses in the routing header. The active segment is indicated by the Destination Address of the packet. The next active segment is indicated by a pointer in the new routing header. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:08:10 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Jonathan Hardwick , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing.all@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Routing directorate telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13 Thread-Index: AdNzUT/yE8T+/0amRmKhqwtSadNzgAGleRiA Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:08:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4a8765ad2d8e4cbb9c50d694592dd11f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4a8765ad2d8e4cbb9c50d694592dd11fXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Routing directorate telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org 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XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:14:04 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:14:04 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdDwEDkGNO7TDZ0KxLfGGCai0jKNM5nPA Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:14:04 +0000 Message-ID: <9ce9d770cc0d4bff889a5c6d3ec7a779@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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"draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdEIOG0UzK0e0qEeUmrtqvFiUQqNM6A1w Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:18:10 +0000 Message-ID: <404fda4a03294dfeac55074a0937a54c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <151319051482.30109.537791118842316529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151319051482.30109.537791118842316529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:18:16 -0000 QWxpc3NhIC0NCg0KVGhhbnggZm9yIHRoZSByZXZpZXcuDQpWMTQgaGFzIGJlZW4gcHVibGlzaGVk IGFuZCBpdCBhdHRlbXB0cyB0byBhZGRyZXNzIHRoZSBTZWN1cml0eSBjb25jZXJucyByYWlzZWQg YnkgeW91IGFuZCBvdGhlcnMuDQpMb29rIGZvcndhcmQgdG8geW91ciBmZWVkYmFjay4NCg0KSW5s aW5lLg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEFsaXNzYSBDb29w ZXIgW21haWx0bzphbGlzc2FAY29vcGVydy5pbl0NCj4gU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJl ciAxMywgMjAxNyAxMDo0MiBBTQ0KPiBUbzogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IENj OiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zZWdtZW50LXJvdXRpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGFyZXRhbmEuaWV0 ZkBnbWFpbC5jb207DQo+IHNwcmluZy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IG1hcnRpbi52aWdvdXJldXhA bm9raWEuY29tOyBzcHJpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogQWxpc3NhIENvb3BlcidzIERp c2N1c3Mgb24gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1zcHJpbmctc2VnbWVudC1yb3V0aW5nLTEzOg0KPiAod2l0aCBE SVNDVVNTIGFuZCBDT01NRU5UKQ0KPiANCj4gQWxpc3NhIENvb3BlciBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUg 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBQZXIgbXkgRElTQ1VTUyBjb21tZW50LCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMg ZG9jdW1lbnQgbmVlZHMgdG8gaW5jbHVkZSBzb21lDQo+IGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25zIGNvbmNlcm5p bmcgdGhlIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgbWV0YWRhdGEgdGhhdCBTUnY2IGFkZHMgdG8gdGhlDQo+IHBhY2tl dC4NCj4gVGhpcyBoYXMgaW1wbGljYXRpb25zIG5vdCBqdXN0IGZvciBwYXNzaXZlIG9ic2VydmVy cyBidXQgYWxzbyBmb3IgYW55IG5vZGUgdGhhdA0KPiBsb2dzIHRoZSBTUkguDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Wed Dec 20 15:26:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650241242F5; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:26:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, 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(8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBKNQU59028657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:26:30 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:26:29 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:26:29 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdE5nRtY6EGvec0S8gOWpJgxY86NM6Sbw Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:26:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151319581850.30080.17196671582849882645.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151319581850.30080.17196671582849882645.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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20 Dec 2017 23:35:58 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBKNZwhV020421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:35:58 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:35:57 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:35:57 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Ben Campbell , The IESG CC: "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdIgnAFQAGyHEf0iGsovuvF2mlqNM6xPA Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:35:57 +0000 Message-ID: <67101beab2174cb29b814b6feea87466@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <151322061608.6162.117083228377789141.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151322061608.6162.117083228377789141.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:36:01 -0000 Ben - Thanx for the review. V14 has been published and it attempts to address the Security concerns. Look forward to your feedback. Inline. > -----Original Message----- > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Campbell > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 7:04 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: martin.vigoureux@nokia.com; spring@ietf.org; spring-chairs@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org; aretana.ietf@gmail.com > Subject: [spring] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segmen= t- > routing-13: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all ema= il > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introdu= ctory > paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Substantive Comments: >=20 > - I support Alissa's discuss and Adam's major comment. >=20 > - Requirements Language: There are lower case instances of 2119 keywords. > Unless you mean for those to also be normative, please use the boilerplat= e > from RFC 8174. >=20 > -3.1.1, last paragraph: Why are the SHOULDs not MUSTs? >=20 [Les:] Failure to do the validation will result in the packet being dropped= when it reaches a node which does not support the algorithm i.e., the algo= rithm specific label will not match any installed incoming label. This is s= ub-optimal but not fatal - hence SHOULD rather than MUST. > -12.2: The citations to the following references seem to be used normativ= ely: > I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header > I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions > I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions > I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions >=20 [Les:] I respectfully disagree. The architecture document is NOT dependent upon the IGP/6man documents - th= e dependency is the other way around. The referenced documents are useful for readers who wish to better understa= nd how the architecture is supported by routing protocols/IPv6 - but there = is no dependency that the architecture definition has on the implementation= specifics. > Editorial Comments and Nits: >=20 > -1, 2nd paragraph: s/"referred by"/"referred to by" >=20 [Les:] Fixed > -2, definition of "Active Segment" : "The segment that MUST be used..." > The MUST seems like a statement of fact. (If that is actually intended to > define a requirement, please state it more directly.) > [Les:] Fixed =20 > -8, 2nd paragraph, first sentence: s/on/to >=20 [Les:] Fixed > -8.2, 2nd paragraph, first sentence: s/on/to [Les:] Fixed Les >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Wed Dec 20 15:40:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961D912704A; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:40:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gy_QZBQBiyu6; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AEDD1242F5; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Orochi.local (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vBKNe7Do026661 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:40:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Orochi.local To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , The IESG Cc: "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" References: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9ce9d770cc0d4bff889a5c6d3ec7a779@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <56e4db7b-148c-3b1b-e970-677ca5044de1@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:40:02 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9ce9d770cc0d4bff889a5c6d3ec7a779@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:40:13 -0000 On 12/20/17 17:14, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Adam - > > Thanx for the review. > V14 has been published and it attempts to address the Security concerns raised by you and others. > Look forward to your feedback. Thanks! The one thing that I'd suggest for improvement is in section 8.2: > Problems which may arise when the above behaviors are not done > include: The issue isn't isolated to just the behaviors, but also to failures of the assumed trust model. I might suggest something more like: > Problems which may arise when the above behaviors are not implemented > or when the assumed trust model is violated (e.g., through a security > breach) include: /a From nobody Wed Dec 20 15:42:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B58B1242F5; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:42:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Iyo2yKL4GMTK; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A25B1205D3; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 15:42:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6118; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513813322; x=1515022922; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=/n9qIn397EYJvDPcT0ELT1keVK7xLO7acFuOdxUrKng=; b=O4GcU1qgdGyzPWkv/AvORKVrdmLpGgI2+kZ5QJsT3NOAakOOw5WAbVm+ SRqjc4OOUBhzxvPi4OOQ3pfOAQtkuB+aOUUQ5sM/Qj6MV4mnOgJdTl76k Jyox07thrIkrKBj0ZxBPIHnMVeeIO7NTCd6m0f4dGtXFWh4KhtjGSsTOm I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AmAQBP9Dpa/5hdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM+ZnQnB4N/iiGPD4ICiQSOIRSCAQojhRgCGoR6PxgBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQFrKIUjAQEBAQIBIxFFBQcEAgEIEQEDAQEDAiMDAgICHxEUAQIGCAIEAQ0FC?= =?us-ascii?q?BOJeAMNCBCkJIInhzcNgyYBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYEPgnCCEoF?= =?us-ascii?q?WgWmDLIJrRAEBgToBEgGDNYJjBYpOjxGJKD0Ch36IMIR1giCGFYQQhzyNHj6Ic?= =?us-ascii?q?wIRGQGBOgEfOWBXGG8VPIIpgwmBTngBiB8NGAeBBoEVAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,434,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="333041593" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Dec 2017 23:42:00 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBKNg1h5010665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:42:01 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:42:00 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:42:00 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Kathleen Moriarty , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Kathleen Moriarty's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS) Thread-Index: AQHTdI9WKmVqSARqCU+9XTnuZetI6qNM7Zng Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:42:00 +0000 Message-ID: <89a53447d5dc423b8c4cd8c9376756e7@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <151322370751.6222.4040293688172571956.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151322370751.6222.4040293688172571956.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Kathleen Moriarty's Discuss on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with DISCUSS) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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20 Dec 2017 23:45:41 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBKNjeLS024395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:45:40 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:45:40 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:45:40 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdDwEDkGNO7TDZ0KxLfGGCai0jKNDCGOAgAnoElA= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:45:40 +0000 Message-ID: <4b56d44d0478493196ba73fac6dc034e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <900832dc-2659-eec0-8745-654cac0251eb@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <900832dc-2659-eec0-8745-654cac0251eb@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4b56d44d0478493196ba73fac6dc034eXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Dec 2017 23:53:39 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBKNrdvC025866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:53:39 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:53:38 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 17:53:38 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" , mehmet Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdM1FkQaDnuAU8kOlZPP6a508hqNM7+hg Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:53:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151325030860.6234.882913074592016232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151325030860.6234.882913074592016232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZCdzIE5vIE9iamVjdGlvbiBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRm?= =?utf-8?Q?-spring-segment-routing-13:_(with_COMMENT)?= Thread-Index: AQHTdNUSmJB4+VTankCF2yDGlTRfoKNM8enA Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:55:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151325365708.6146.18390872472856718284.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151325365708.6146.18390872472856718284.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= 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21 Dec 2017 00:03:32 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (xch-aln-005.cisco.com [173.36.7.15]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBL03Vuq004837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:03:31 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 18:03:31 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 18:03:31 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Alexander Vainshtein , Jonathan Hardwick , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing.all@ietf.org" , Michael Gorokhovsky , Alexander Ferdman Thread-Topic: Routing directorate telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13 Thread-Index: AdNzUT/yE8T+/0amRmKhqwtSadNzgAAEcQKgAaLBYDA= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:03:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_f9561539cadb44fbb0622da59a92689cXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Routing directorate telechat review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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"spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdDwEDkGNO7TDZ0KxLfGGCai0jKNM5nPAgABtXwD//6KDEA== Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:07:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151318792186.30213.16606474993045006340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9ce9d770cc0d4bff889a5c6d3ec7a779@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <56e4db7b-148c-3b1b-e970-677ca5044de1@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <56e4db7b-148c-3b1b-e970-677ca5044de1@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.0.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:20:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.175.74 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:20:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <151322600641.6202.5483177018916405567.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 23:20:30 -0600 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "martin.vigoureux@nokia.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1149314cd152860560d2db90" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 05:20:37 -0000 --001a1149314cd152860560d2db90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Les, On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Spencer - > > Thanx for the review. > V14 has been published and it attempts to address the Security concerns > raised by you and others. > Look forward to your feedback. > Looks exactly the way I hoped it would. Thanks much! Spencer > > Inline. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:33 PM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org; aretana.ietf@gmail.com; > > spring-chairs@ietf.org; martin.vigoureux@nokia.com; spring@ietf.org > > Subject: Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segment- > > routing-13: (with COMMENT) > > > > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email > > addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory > > paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria. > html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I'm not surprised to see additional security alarm bells going off for > the SRv6 > > variant - this is quite similar to the additional congestion awareness > alarm > > bells that went off when we were evaluating MPLS (which is usually pretty > > well > > contained) over UDP (which can get around the Internet with a lot less > effort > > than MPLS without UDP). That's an opportunity to rethink the impact of > > changes to an underlying technology. > > > > Which leads me to the point I should be making as a TSV AD. I'm not > seeing > > any obvious mechanism that would tell you that you've managed to set up > > your segment routing so that some paths will undergo persistent > congestion. > > You might consider whether it's worth recommending that people doing > > segment routing take a look at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8084/ > and > > decide how much, if anything, would be useful to say about that. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510#section-5 is an early example of > the kind > > of thing I'm talking about. > > > [Les:] Clarification that new congestion avoidance requirements are not > introduced by SR has been added to the draft. The use of techniques (such > as RFC 8084) may be applicable and this is also mentioned. > > Les > > --001a1149314cd152860560d2db90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Les,

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsbe= rg@cisco.com> wrote:
Spence= r -

Thanx for the review.
V14 has been published and it attempts to address the Security concerns rai= sed by you and others.
Look forward to your feedback.

Looks ex= actly the way I hoped it would. Thanks much!

Spenc= er
=C2=A0

Inline.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:33 PM
> To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>= ;
> Cc: draf= t-ietf-spring-segment-routing@ietf.org; aretana.ietf@gmail.com;
> spring-chairs@ietf.org; = martin.vigoureux@nokia.com; spring@ietf.org
> Subject: Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-spring-segmen= t-
> routing-13: (with COMMENT)
>
> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email
> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this intr= oductory
> paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> COMMENT:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> I'm not surprised to see additional security alarm bells going off= for the SRv6
> variant - this is quite similar to the additional congestion awareness= alarm
> bells that went off when we were evaluating MPLS (which is usually pre= tty
> well
> contained) over UDP (which can get around the Internet with a lot less= effort
> than MPLS without UDP). That's an opportunity to rethink the impac= t of
> changes to an underlying technology.
>
> Which leads me to the point I should be making as a TSV AD. I'm no= t seeing
> any obvious mechanism that would tell you that you've managed to s= et up
> your segment routing so that some paths will undergo persistent conges= tion.
> You might consider whether it's worth recommending that people doi= ng
> segment routing take a look at https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/rfc8084/ and
> decide how much, if anything, would be useful to say about that.
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7510#section-5= is an early example of the kind
> of thing I'm talking about.
>
=C2=A0[Les:] Clarification that new congestion avoidance requir= ements are not introduced by SR has been added to the draft. The use of tec= hniques (such as RFC 8084) may be applicable and this is also mentioned.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les


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Dec 2017 12:06:19 +0100 From: To: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" , Alvaro Retana CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@Ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 Thread-Index: AQHTQ4FPG6nbfTr8mEmw4rwyUO5SEqNOB06A Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 11:06:19 +0000 Message-ID: <19921_1513854380_5A3B95AC_19921_269_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929463@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <998FE834-F9C6-43F2-8D10-30EE14CCECB6@cisco.com> <114895D1-093E-4D91-873B-0F64E9EE9EA0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929463OPEXCLILM21corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org 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ZWQgb3IgZmFsc2lmaWVkLgpUaGFuayB5b3UuCjwvUFJFPjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929463OPEXCLILM21corp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 21 06:05:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B92212D7F7; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:05:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OexrPkdBn3nd; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1E0B127078; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 484C120A41; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:05:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.33]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 25F45120087; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:05:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d5fd:9c7d:2ee3:39d9%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:05:14 +0100 From: To: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHTeKahshRyKAHV/U2nSlhXAwGgU6NNqDoA Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:05:14 +0000 Message-ID: <13708_1513865115_5A3BBF9B_13708_176_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A479298D4@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <151367351502.7415.8457234964917496618@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151367351502.7415.8457234964917496618@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:05:21 -0000 Hi authors, Thanks for the updated draft and having updated draft-ietf-mpls-rfc3107bis = with RFC 8277 in section 4.2 "eBGP" Could you apply the same change in section 4.3 "iBGP" ? i.e. OLD: iBGP Labeled Unicast (draft-ietf-mpls-rfc3107bis) NEW: iBGP Labeled Unicast (RFC8277) Nothing urgent on my side. Nits: "The BGP-Prefix-SID is a lightweight extension to BGP Labeled Unicast (RFC= 8277 [RFC8277])." Probably, one reference to RFC 8277 is enough. > -----Original Message----- > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-draf= ts@ietf.org > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:52 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: spring@ietf.org > Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.= txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direc= tories. > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG = of the IETF. >=20 > Title : BGP-Prefix Segment in large-scale data centers > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > Stefano Previdi > Jon Mitchell > Ebben Aries > Petr Lapukhov > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt > Pages : 24 > Date : 2017-12-19 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the motivation and benefits for applying > segment routing in BGP-based large-scale data-centers. It describes > the design to deploy segment routing in those data-centers, for both > the MPLS and IPv6 dataplanes. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-= msdc-07 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ms= dc-07 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submis= sion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E584312D873; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:17:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151386583789.12883.13963256301639338142@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:17:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-09.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:17:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Segment Routing Centralized BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Gaurav Dawra Ebben Aries Dmitry Afanasiev Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-09.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-12-21 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction topological or service-based. SR allows to enforce a flow through any topological path while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. The Segment Routing architecture can be directly applied to the MPLS dataplane with no change on the forwarding plane. It requires a minor extension to the existing link-state routing protocols. This document illustrates the application of Segment Routing to solve the BGP Egress Peer Engineering (BGP-EPE) requirement. The SR-based BGP-EPE solution allows a centralized (Software Defined Network, SDN) controller to program any egress peer policy at ingress border routers or at hosts within the domain. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 21 06:22:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A3F8124D68; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:22:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m26YLWQy3Das; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACD1F120724; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 06:22:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7B3A560F57; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:22:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.72]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4B704180093; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:22:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:22:01 +0100 From: To: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@Ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana Thread-Topic: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 Thread-Index: AQHTQ4FPG6nbfTr8mEmw4rwyUO5SEqNORkjg Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:22:01 +0000 Message-ID: <16374_1513866122_5A3BC38A_16374_164_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929A34@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <998FE834-F9C6-43F2-8D10-30EE14CCECB6@cisco.com> <114895D1-093E-4D91-873B-0F64E9EE9EA0@cisco.com> <19921_1513854380_5A3B95AC_19921_269_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929463@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <73AE44FA-B557-4F1B-9FAD-59AB8946C13F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <73AE44FA-B557-4F1B-9FAD-59AB8946C13F@cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929A34OPEXCLILM21corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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"draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana , "gdawra.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHTem0Rqfhas8YsEUC4MSI55xSmqQ== Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:04:58 +0000 Message-ID: <0DC20769-E51B-4271-8788-27AADFBF3D0F@cisco.com> References: <151367351502.7415.8457234964917496618@ietfa.amsl.com> <13708_1513865115_5A3BBF9B_13708_176_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A479298D4@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <13708_1513865115_5A3BBF9B_13708_176_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A479298D4@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.8.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3A06872560632E4F89657301A818AFA6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F84112D886; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:19:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NEa5wD8TQc6t; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x244.google.com (mail-ot0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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<27769_1513867189_5A3BC7B5_27769_440_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929B47@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <998FE834-F9C6-43F2-8D10-30EE14CCECB6@cisco.com> <114895D1-093E-4D91-873B-0F64E9EE9EA0@cisco.com> <19921_1513854380_5A3B95AC_19921_269_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929463@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <73AE44FA-B557-4F1B-9FAD-59AB8946C13F@cisco.com> <16374_1513866122_5A3BC38A_16374_164_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929A34@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <27769_1513867189_5A3BC7B5_27769_440_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929B47@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> X-Mailer: Airmail (467) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:19:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" , bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@Ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c022f0134cb20560db3b96" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:19:52 -0000 --001a11c022f0134cb20560db3b96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On December 21, 2017 at 9:39:49 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com ( bruno.decraene@orange.com) wrote: I see that you have also added the =E2=80=9Cnote=E2=80=9D on for the VPN ro= utes. I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s necessary here as: - if both routes are VPN ones, they are both labelled and are comparable as per regular BGP/MPLS IP VPN routes - if only the =E2=80=9Cpolicy=E2=80=9D route is installed in the VRF (VRF f= allback to the main FIB), only the labeled VPN routes is considered, hence preferred. Bottom line, I think that the note can be removed in the VPN section (5.4). But nothing urgent, this can wait for a next update. Hi! I=E2=80=99m waiting for that next update to approve publication=E2=80=A6 Alvaro. --001a11c022f0134cb20560db3b96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On December 21, 2017 at 9:39:49 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com (bruno.decraene@orange.com) wrote:

<= div>

I see that you= have also added the =E2=80=9Cnote=E2=80=9D on for the VPN routes. I don=E2= =80=99t think it=E2=80=99s necessary here as:

- if both rout= es are VPN ones, they are both labelled and are comparable as per regular B= GP/MPLS IP VPN routes

- if only the =E2=80=9Cpolicy=E2=80=9D= route is installed in the VRF (VRF fallback to the main FIB), only the lab= eled VPN routes is considered, hence preferred.

=C2=A0

Bottom line, I think that the note can be removed in the VPN sect= ion (5.4). But nothing urgent, this can wait for a next update.

<= /span>

Hi!

I=E2=80=99m waiting for that next upd= ate to approve publication=E2=80=A6

Alvaro.


--001a11c022f0134cb20560db3b96-- From nobody Thu Dec 21 07:26:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFB912D889; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:26:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151387000221.12776.2101959001867356220@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:26:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:26:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Segment Routing Centralized BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Gaurav Dawra Ebben Aries Dmitry Afanasiev Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-12-21 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction topological or service-based. SR allows to enforce a flow through any topological path while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. The Segment Routing architecture can be directly applied to the MPLS dataplane with no change on the forwarding plane. It requires a minor extension to the existing link-state routing protocols. This document illustrates the application of Segment Routing to solve the BGP Egress Peer Engineering (BGP-EPE) requirement. The SR-based BGP-EPE solution allows a centralized (Software Defined Network, SDN) controller to program any egress peer policy at ingress border routers or at hosts within the domain. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 21 07:27:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42ADE12D890; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:27:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.529 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.529 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ACJIGrvUlRxv; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:27:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EB2012D948; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:26:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10938; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513870019; x=1515079619; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=exolhKywA5TvNR3WOXsg7PXrrCMXW1ZAM1yNbYw++5g=; b=LqqC10/JxkFRj0bM4I2P1JUGsomhN13+WY3Af45zgwAJ9na3cm6z52Ck 8nTIituhQFNJo+k2670i7UA49V/E4gD4ruZXHozvYgkmyMNuS+9Gq82Vq 2SxdClAcM0fzjieVbeoSSomUrO44A2aXhi7hjTrTAkv6CY0Yg5mCV/uHG Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DEAQD90Tta/5hdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJKdGZ0JweDf4okjxCBWieJBohRhVIUggEKhTsCGoQwPxgBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQFrKIUjAQEBBCNWEAIBCA4DAwECKAMCAgIfERQJCAIEAQ0FiUdMAxWkb?= =?us-ascii?q?oInJocUDYMnAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYN/ghKBVoISDIJ5gmtFgVY?= =?us-ascii?q?4FoJhMYI0BZlgiSs9ApAvhH6CF5FjilKDDYhzAhEZAYE6AR85gU9vFWYBgX6CW?= =?us-ascii?q?ReBZ3iJAYEWAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.45,436,1508803200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="47742799" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 21 Dec 2017 15:26:56 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBLFQuMv016398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:26:56 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:26:55 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:26:55 -0500 From: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" To: Alvaro Retana , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@Ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 Thread-Index: AQHTQ4FPG6nbfTr8mEmw4rwyUO5SEg== Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:26:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <998FE834-F9C6-43F2-8D10-30EE14CCECB6@cisco.com> <114895D1-093E-4D91-873B-0F64E9EE9EA0@cisco.com> <19921_1513854380_5A3B95AC_19921_269_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929463@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <73AE44FA-B557-4F1B-9FAD-59AB8946C13F@cisco.com> <16374_1513866122_5A3BC38A_16374_164_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929A34@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <27769_1513867189_5A3BC7B5_27769_440_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A47929B47@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.8.122] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F36473FB920D48519E3A2CFB873A54ABciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] AD Review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-06 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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10:08:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD9E12D950; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:07:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe@ietf.org, The IESG , spring@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, bruno.decraene@orange.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <151387967842.12860.2509116204303876003.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:07:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Document Action: 'Segment Routing Centralized BGP Egress Peer Engineering' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:07:58 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Segment Routing Centralized BGP Egress Peer Engineering' (draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe-10.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Source Packet Routing in Networking Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-central-epe/ Technical Summary This document illustrates the application of Segment Routing to solve the BGP Egress Peer Engineering (BGP-EPE) requirement. The SR-based BGP-EPE solution allows a centralized (Software Defined Network, SDN) controller to program any egress peer policy at ingress border routers or at hosts within the domain. Working Group Summary The WG support for this document has been strong and consistent. Document Quality There are three implementations of the BGP-LS extensions defined in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe and enabling the Segment Routing Centralized BGP Egress Peer Engineering described in this document. Personnel Bruno Decraene is the Document Shepherd. Alvaro Retana is the Responsible Area Director. From nobody Thu Dec 21 22:28:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F4112D7E2; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:28:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2j-U8ZTX8YKO; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DD3F126FDC; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:28:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6540; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1513924109; x=1515133709; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=YHL9jT65ogz2GCtJJelami9pYkIDSKvQe4TXxuoV1CY=; b=aPJww90i9qoFGtevZQ/yFBh9VwSrGyAz3ayDVOJhCGMhRlKm0qN1IOKo sB7NH0+Hw/aSolD7T6BP+o6lKquTnfhByf2E8kYb/hv8WtyiLSqeagAa4 P1vzdNXzhH0TYrnb6jlILTt4yVYQkseSoxZQ25FwxFZMAk3mbFzqjzlbw 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A7AQBBpTxa/5FdJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM+ZnQnB4N/iiSPEYFaJ5coFIIBChgNhEdPAhqEMD8YAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBayiFIwEBAQQBASEROgsMBAIBCBEEAQEDAiMDAgICJQsUAQgIAgQBDQWKL?= =?us-ascii?q?hClK4IniloBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgQ+CcIISgVaBaSkMgnmDLwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BF4EjARIBgzYxgjQFmWCJaQKHf40ughdlhTCLTo0hiTECERkBgToBHzlgb28VG?= =?us-ascii?q?CQqAYF+CYJLHIFneIcngSWBFgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,439,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="48023062" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Dec 2017 06:28:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBM6SRuw000427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Dec 2017 06:28:27 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 01:28:26 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 01:28:26 -0500 From: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "gdawra.ietf@gmail.com" , Alvaro Retana Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHTeu4SIMtjj93tTUKd8huENoFLMw== Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 06:28:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151367351502.7415.8457234964917496618@ietfa.amsl.com> <13708_1513865115_5A3BBF9B_13708_176_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A479298D4@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <0DC20769-E51B-4271-8788-27AADFBF3D0F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0DC20769-E51B-4271-8788-27AADFBF3D0F@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.3.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1615AA0E1FB87A488930AEFEB168F44D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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bmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFibGUgZm9yIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBj aGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4NCiAgICAgICAgVGhhbmsgeW91Lg0KICAgICAgICANCiAgICAg ICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICAg ICAgc3ByaW5nIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgICAgICBzcHJpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICAgICAg aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zcHJpbmcNCiAgICAgICAgDQog ICAgDQogICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N CiAgICBzcHJpbmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgc3ByaW5nQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zcHJpbmcNCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Thu Dec 21 23:34:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29DD812D874; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 23:33:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151392803713.28090.9513513613589351342@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 23:33:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 07:33:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-Prefix Segment in large-scale data centers Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Jon Mitchell Ebben Aries Petr Lapukhov Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2017-12-21 Abstract: This document describes the motivation and benefits for applying segment routing in BGP-based large-scale data-centers. It describes the design to deploy segment routing in those data-centers, for both the MPLS and IPv6 dataplanes. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 21 23:50:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745C012D810; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 23:50:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151392900443.28044.6949846366896026601@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 23:50:04 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-08.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 07:50:04 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Interconnecting Millions Of Endpoints With Segment Routing Authors : Clarence Filsfils Stefano Previdi Gaurav Dawra Dennis Cai Wim Henderickx Dave Cooper Tim Laberge Steven Lin Bruno Decraene Luay Jalil Jeff Tantsura Rob Shakir Filename : draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-08.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2017-12-21 Abstract: This document describes an application of Segment Routing to scale the network to support hundreds of thousands of network nodes, and tens of millions of physical underlay endpoints. This use-case can be applied to the interconnection of massive-scale DC's and/or large aggregation networks. Forwarding tables of midpoint and leaf nodes only require a few tens of thousands of entries. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Dec 22 00:00:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD6B1270AB; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 00:00:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qxoeqo0wrAks; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 00:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EDF4126D73; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 00:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EC9F7A114E; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:00:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BF4EC1A0062; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:00:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::4bd:9b2b:3651:6fba%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:00:03 +0100 From: To: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "gdawra.ietf@gmail.com" , Alvaro Retana , "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHTeu4SIMtjj93tTUKd8huENoFLM6NO/65A Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 08:00:03 +0000 Message-ID: <8568_1513929603_5A3CBB83_8568_99_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4792BA01@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <151367351502.7415.8457234964917496618@ietfa.amsl.com> <13708_1513865115_5A3BBF9B_13708_176_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A479298D4@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <0DC20769-E51B-4271-8788-27AADFBF3D0F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 08:00:12 -0000 VGhhbmtzIEdhdXJhdi4NCkxvb2tzIGdvb2QgdG8gbWUuDQoNCi1CcnVubw0KDQoNCg0KPiBGcm9t OiBHYXVyYXYgRGF3cmEgKGdkYXdyYSkgW21haWx0bzpnZGF3cmFAY2lzY28uY29tXQ0KID4gU2Vu dDogRnJpZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciAyMiwgMjAxNyA3OjI4IEFNDQo+IA0KID4gSGV5IEJydW5vLA0K ID4gDQogPiBJIGhhdmUgc3VibWl0dGVkIGEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gd2l0aCB0aGlzIGNoYW5nZS4N CiA+IA0KID4gQ2hlZXJzLA0KID4gDQogPiBHYXVyYXYNCiA+IA0KID4gDQogPiAgICAgT24gMTIv MjEvMTcsIDY6MDUgQU0sICJzcHJpbmcgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGJydW5vLmRlY3JhZW5lQG9yYW5n ZS5jb20iIDxzcHJpbmctDQogPiBib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBicnVuby5k ZWNyYWVuZUBvcmFuZ2UuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCiA+IA0KID4gICAgICAgICBIaSBhdXRob3JzLA0K ID4gDQogPiAgICAgICAgIFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZWQgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGhhdmluZyB1 cGRhdGVkIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbXBscy1yZmMzMTA3YmlzIHdpdGggUkZDIDgyNzcNCiA+IGluIHNl Y3Rpb24gNC4yICJlQkdQIg0KID4gICAgICAgICBDb3VsZCB5b3UgYXBwbHkgdGhlIHNhbWUgY2hh 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14.03.0361.001; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 14:07:30 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xu-clad-spring-sr-service-chaining-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHTexv0PSTippg49E+bifWoYwIzJKNQGI3g Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 06:07:29 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A79B4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.184.181] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?b?6L2s5Y+ROiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24g?= =?utf-8?q?for_draft-xu-clad-spring-sr-service-chaining-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." 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ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=icloud.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OoHdelSJzkFH; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 01:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com (st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com [17.164.40.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDDA81201F8; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 01:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from process-dkim-sign-daemon.st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com by st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) id <0P1E00C00PT4KY00@st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com>; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:25:09 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=04042017; t=1514021109; bh=ixTaz46T1Bjyr4VS5XOL3MvGSPqo2WNulL4czEzLrKw=; h=From:Message-id:Content-type:MIME-version:Subject:Date:To; b=gE0q0tGrK8/Z3rL6dXeiZHviI9Xd/0LetMnd+KKwrLHYOXg3M7njTgEdI+f2iDnwW iq3uttXnh42ld6E+xXplNlohw96QRyuMi81J25jT3w4xn7jB5sGgggJxRIsonAWELF wTnhf5M1AZehxdr6nUUavz8Ojhy5gIQ+xM/H3yYH65mPG9gwR8wmtQdUl5daLze/W/ 0uLHnVdd1rr93BHEJCHqLcb6JONTWCNpsJXE8TnkXPCXS+bYY1EYcwjx176oNcEHa5 9tUr9z/KyMCBaLWRjfxm5GgtwzM3kJiRE3QZOF2mhkEQaPna4hRXZEQyEcwSSXTkIi Dmz/FyHnqKP0g== Received: from icloud.com ([127.0.0.1]) by st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0P1E00MVSQ5TQH00@st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com>; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:25:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2017-12-23_06:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1712230129 From: Gunter Van De Velde Message-id: Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AD9F1F8B-A08B-4C58-91FE-2EE280812CB2" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:25:05 +0100 In-reply-to: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A7A3E@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" To: Xuxiaohu References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A7A3E@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [Idr] A comment regarding the relationship between RLD and ERLD X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 09:25:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AD9F1F8B-A08B-4C58-91FE-2EE280812CB2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Xiaohu, Thanks for digging through the draft. See inline: GV> > On 23 Dec 2017, at 09:40, Xuxiaohu wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I just read the draft (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld) due = to the curiosity of the ERLD terminology. I have thought that this draft = is just about a straightforward BGP-LS extension for the RLD concept as = defined in draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc and draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc = according to the draft name. However it isn't in fact. Maybe the draft = name should have been *-erld rather than *-rld. >=20 > I have the following comments on this draft = (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld): >=20 > 1) ERLD means Entropy capable Readable Label Depth as defined in this = draft. However, it said "...A network node signalling an ERLD MUST = support the ability to read the signalled number of labels before any = action is done upon the packet..." I'm wondering what actions other than = the EL-based LB action the "any action" could be since the ERLD has been = tightly coupled with the EL-based LB mechanism. In contrast, the RLD as = defined in the two IGP drafts is not tightly couple with the EL-based LB = action. In other words, the RLD capability could be applicable to other = use cases besides the EL-based LB. >=20 GV> This is exactly what I asked during the IETF100 IDR slot when I = presented the updated work. The consensus was that signalling of a = readable label depth has entropy as the dominant use-case scenario. This = is now documented in:=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = . = Consensus from IETF100 IDR meeting was that ERLD is the way forward for = BGP-LS based signalling, and that maybe this should also be the case for = both ISIS and OSPF drafts (however, that is different discussion). I = agree with IDR consensus and it seems the most pragmatic path forward. > 2) It said "...In existing technology both ISIS [4] and OSPF [3] have = proposed extensions to signal the RLD (Readable Label Depth) and ELC = (Entropy Label Capability) of a node or link. " However, there is no = extensions to signal the RLD and ELC of a link, if I remembered = correctly as a co-author of the above two IGP drafts:) In fact, when the = two IGP drafts were initially proposed, some guys does argue why not = advertise ELC and RLD of the per-link granularity as well. After some = discussion in IETF, a rough consensus had been reached that the = advertisement of ELC and RLD at a per node granularity was good enough = at that time. That's the reason why the two IGP drafts had not been = extended to advertise ELC and RLD at a per link granularity therefore. = Maybe we should reopen such discussion now? >=20 GV> I have no intend to open up that discussion at all, as it seems a = pragmatic consensus was reached. Steering seems to become more complex = when link based ERLD is proposed and a potential set of different ERLDs = are signalled due to capabilities of the line-card HW. If for = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 we = just need node based ERLD, then I that is just fine. My personal opinion = is that we need node ERLD for node for sure in BGP-LS, and that link = ERLD is a nice to have. It seems relative easy and pragmatic to add both = Link and node ERLD in current version of the BGP-LS ERLD document. > 3) It said "...if a network SDN controller is connected to the network = through a BGP-LS session and not through ISIS or OSPF technology, then = both RLD and ELC needs to be signaled in BGP-LS accordingly. This = document describes the extension BGP-LS requires to transport the = combination of RLD and ELC into according ERLD attributes for nodes and = links..." I have not yet found any explanation about the motivation for = advertising the combination of RLD and ELC into according ERLD = attributes rather than advertising these two attributes separately. = Would it be better to give any explanation about such motivation in the = Problem Statement section? >=20 >=20 GV> Yes, indeed, again that was reason again that the work was presented = during IETF100 as I had some doubts myself. During IETF100 IDR meeting, = I learned and was confirmed that ERLD is now in the SPRING entropy label = draft and that hence ERLD is to be signalled for the most prominent = use-case driving readable label depth signalling https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = . I = see no reason to open that discussion again, and current BGP-LS ERLD = draft is inline the most dominant use-case scenario (Entropy based = load-balancing). I could change the existing text to refer to = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = = and only mention ERLD (and no longer mention ELC/RLD at all) if IDR WG = find that better? Brgds, G/ > Best regards, > Xiaohu >=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) = [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5= 12:16 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); = Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>=20 >> Hi Xu, >>=20 >> I am arguing the exact opposite of what you are saying. >>=20 >> Let us leave ELC/ERLD aside since it is very limited to entropy label = use-case and >> the proposed IGP/BGP-LS encoding is very specific to that. I am not = sure if this is >> the time anymore to revisit that. >>=20 >> The MSD proposal came later and I support is since I've found its use = to be >> much more widespread and the proposed IGP/BGP-LS protocol encoding to = be >> very efficient as an implementer of these protocols. Hence the = request to not >> restrict it to "writable" or "imposition" cases solely. It is also = not just about >> "readability" - which by itself is pretty meaningless. Even ERLD is = about >> "reading" and then "doing *something specific* about it" as discussed = in >> ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls. >>=20 >> There is no second thoughts about the IGP ELC drafts and they are = very useful >> and necessary. Just to be clear there is *no functional or = operational change* >> that I am arguing for here. The discussion is purely on the way to = handle these >> encodings and whether we can use the MSD mechanism in a generalized >> manner. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Ketan >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com] >> Sent: 21 December 2017 08:10 >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant) >> ; Christian Hopps ; = isis-wg@ietf.org >> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >> Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>=20 >> Hi Les, >>=20 >> If I understand it correctly, the MSD concept was originated from >> = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#page-7) = as >> described below: >>=20 >> "The "Maximum SID Depth" (1 >> octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label >> stack depth in the context of this document) that a PCC is capable = of >> imposing on a packet." >>=20 >> Before considering expanding the semantics of the MSD concept as = defined in >> the above PCE-SR draft, how about first considering renaming the = capability of >> imposing the maximum number of labels so as to eliminate possible = confusions, >> e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth (WLD) as opposed to the Readable = Label-stack >> Depth (RLD) as defined in = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc) >> and (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc) ? >>=20 >> Best regards, >> Xiaohu >>=20 >>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg = [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Les Ginsberg >>> (ginsberg) >>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 4:02 >>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Christian = Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>=20 >>> Ketan - >>>=20 >>> Thanx for the comments. >>> I think we do want to allow MSD support for values other than >>> imposition values. We will revise the text so we are not restricted = to only >> imposition cases. >>>=20 >>> Les >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:51 AM >>>> To: Christian Hopps ; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>=20 >>>> Hello, >>>>=20 >>>> I support this document and would like to ask the authors and WG to >>>> consider if we can expand the scope of this draft to not just >>>> "imposition" of the SID stack but also other similar limits related >>>> to other >>> actions (e.g. >>>> reading, processing, etc.). With Segment Routing, we are coming >>>> across various actions that nodes need to do with the SID stack for >>>> different purposes and IMHO it would be useful to extend the MSD >>>> ability to cover those as they arise. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ketan >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Christian Hopps >>>> Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03 >>>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd >>>> / >>>>=20 >>>> which will last an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO = patterns. >>>>=20 >>>> An IPR statement exists: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf- >>>> is >>>> is- >>>> segment-routing-msd >>>>=20 >>>> Authors please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware = of >>>> any >>>> *new* IPR. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chris. >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Isis-wg mailing list >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr --Apple-Mail=_AD9F1F8B-A08B-4C58-91FE-2EE280812CB2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Xiaohu,

Thanks for = digging through the draft.

See inline: GV>

On 23 = Dec 2017, at 09:40, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi = all,

I just read the draft = (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld) due to the curiosity of the = ERLD terminology. I have thought that this draft is just about a = straightforward BGP-LS extension for the RLD concept as defined in = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc and draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc according to the = draft name. However it isn't in fact. Maybe the draft name should have = been *-erld rather than *-rld.

I have the = following comments on this draft = (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld):

1) ERLD means Entropy capable Readable Label Depth as defined = in this draft. However, it said "...A network node signalling an ERLD = MUST support the ability to read the signalled number of labels before = any action is done upon the packet..." I'm wondering what actions other = than the EL-based LB action the "any action" could be since the ERLD has = been tightly coupled with the EL-based LB mechanism. In contrast, the = RLD as defined in the two IGP drafts is not tightly couple with the = EL-based LB action. In other words, the RLD capability could be = applicable to other use cases besides the EL-based LB.


GV> = This is exactly what I asked during the IETF100 IDR slot when I = presented the updated work. The consensus was that signalling of a = readable label depth has entropy as the dominant use-case scenario. This = is now documented in: 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07. Consensus from IETF100 IDR meeting was that ERLD is the way = forward for BGP-LS based signalling, and that maybe this should also be = the case for both ISIS and OSPF drafts (however, that is different = discussion).  I agree with IDR consensus and it seems the most = pragmatic path forward.


2) It said "...In existing technology both ISIS [4] and OSPF = [3] have proposed extensions to signal the RLD (Readable Label Depth) = and ELC (Entropy Label Capability) of a node or link. " However, there = is no extensions to signal the RLD and ELC of a link, if I remembered = correctly as a co-author of the above two IGP drafts:) In fact, when the = two IGP drafts were initially proposed, some guys does argue why not = advertise ELC and RLD of the per-link granularity as well. After some = discussion in IETF, a rough consensus had been reached that the = advertisement of ELC and RLD at a per node granularity was good enough = at that time. That's the reason why the two IGP drafts had not been = extended to advertise ELC and RLD at a per link granularity therefore. = Maybe we should reopen such discussion now?


GV> = I have no intend to open up that discussion at all, as it seems a = pragmatic consensus was reached. Steering seems to become more complex = when link based ERLD is proposed and a potential set of different ERLDs = are signalled due to capabilities of the line-card HW.  If for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07 we just need node based ERLD, then I that is just fine. My = personal opinion is that we need node ERLD for node for sure in BGP-LS, = and that link ERLD is a nice to have. It seems relative easy and = pragmatic to add both Link and node ERLD in current version of the = BGP-LS ERLD document.

3) It said "...if a network = SDN controller is connected to the network through a BGP-LS session and = not through ISIS or OSPF technology, then both RLD and ELC needs to be = signaled in BGP-LS accordingly.  This document describes the = extension BGP-LS requires to transport the combination of RLD and ELC = into according ERLD attributes for nodes and links..." I have not yet = found any explanation about the motivation for advertising the = combination of RLD and ELC into according ERLD attributes rather than = advertising these two attributes separately. Would it be better to give = any explanation about such motivation in the Problem Statement = section?



GV> = Yes, indeed, again that was reason again that the work was presented = during IETF100 as I had some doubts myself. During IETF100 IDR meeting, = I learned and was confirmed that ERLD is now in the SPRING entropy label = draft and that hence ERLD is to be signalled for the most prominent = use-case driving readable label depth signalling
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07. I see no reason to open that discussion again, and current = BGP-LS ERLD draft is inline the most dominant use-case scenario (Entropy = based load-balancing). I could change the existing text to refer = to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07 and only mention ERLD (and no longer mention ELC/RLD at = all) if IDR WG find that better?

Brgds,

G/

Best regards,
Xiaohu

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6= =97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 12:16
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg); Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hi = Xu,

I am arguing the exact opposite of what = you are saying.

Let us leave ELC/ERLD aside = since it is very limited to entropy label use-case and
the = proposed IGP/BGP-LS encoding is very specific to that. I am not sure if = this is
the time anymore to revisit that.

The MSD proposal came later and I support is since I've found = its use to be
much more widespread and the proposed = IGP/BGP-LS protocol encoding to be
very efficient as an = implementer of these protocols. Hence the request to not
restrict it to "writable" or "imposition" cases solely. It is = also not just about
"readability" - which by itself is = pretty meaningless. Even ERLD is about
"reading" and then = "doing *something specific* about it" as discussed in
ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls.

There is no second thoughts about the IGP ELC drafts and they = are very useful
and necessary. Just to be clear there is = *no functional or operational change*
that I am arguing = for here. The discussion is purely on the way to handle these
encodings and whether we can use the MSD mechanism in a = generalized
manner.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original = Message-----
From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com]
Sent: 21 = December 2017 08:10
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant@cisco.com>; = Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hi = Les,

If I understand it correctly, the MSD = concept was originated from
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#p= age-7) as
described below:

"The "Maximum SID Depth" (1
  octet) = field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label
  stack depth in the context of this document) = that a PCC is capable of
  imposing on a = packet."

Before considering expanding the = semantics of the MSD concept as defined in
the above = PCE-SR draft, how about first considering renaming the capability of
imposing the maximum number of labels so as to eliminate = possible confusions,
e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth = (WLD) as opposed to the Readable Label-stack
Depth (RLD) = as defined in (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc)
and (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc) = ?

Best regards,
Xiaohu

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Les = Ginsberg
(ginsberg)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6= =E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 4:02
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); = Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Ketan -

Thanx for the = comments.
I think we do want to allow MSD support for = values other than
imposition values. We will revise the = text so we are not restricted to only
imposition cases.

 Les


-----Original Message-----
From: Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 = 1:51 AM
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; = isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hello,

I support this document = and would like to ask the authors and WG to
consider if we = can expand the scope of this draft to not just
"imposition" = of the SID stack but also other similar limits related
to = other
actions (e.g.
reading, processing, etc.). With Segment = Routing, we are coming
across various actions that nodes = need to do with the SID stack for
different purposes and = IMHO it would be useful to extend the MSD
ability to cover = those as they arise.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original = Message-----
From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Christian Hopps
Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03
To: isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07


The authors have asked for and we are starting = a WG Last Call on


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routin= g-msd
/

which will last = an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO patterns.

An IPR statement exists:


https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3D= draft-ietf-
is
is-
segment-routing-msd

Authors = please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware of
any
*new* IPR.

Thanks,
Chris.

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
_____________________________________= __________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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(2600-6c4e-2200-04cb-ac55-5e66-96a2-7f99.dhcp6.chtrptr.net. [2600:6c4e:2200:4cb:ac55:5e66:96a2:7f99]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b12sm3222329ioe.38.2017.12.23.11.09.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 Dec 2017 11:09:20 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-7029ADBD-356B-4FB7-8C63-2DC25D74CCC8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15C153) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 11:09:18 -0800 Cc: Xuxiaohu , "idr@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A7A3E@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Gunter Van De Velde Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [OSPF] [Idr] A comment regarding the relationship between RLD and ERLD X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 19:09:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail-7029ADBD-356B-4FB7-8C63-2DC25D74CCC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gunter, As I also said in Singapore - another interesting use case would be related t= o statistics, without going into semantics, we might need another SID in the= stack to uniquely identify a tunnel (domain wide)that would result in a cou= nter hit. RLD is crucial here. There would be some control plan implications on how to correlate local coun= ter name to domain wide tunnel identifier. Some YANG work as well (streaming= telemetry related). Happy Holidays everyone! Regards, Jeff > On Dec 23, 2017, at 01:25, Gunter Van De Velde wrote: >=20 > Hi Xiaohu, >=20 > Thanks for digging through the draft. >=20 > See inline: GV> >=20 >> On 23 Dec 2017, at 09:40, Xuxiaohu wrote: >>=20 >> Hi all, >>=20 >> I just read the draft (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld) due to t= he curiosity of the ERLD terminology. I have thought that this draft is just= about a straightforward BGP-LS extension for the RLD concept as defined in d= raft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc and draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc according to the draft n= ame. However it isn't in fact. Maybe the draft name should have been *-erld r= ather than *-rld. >>=20 >> I have the following comments on this draft (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segmen= t-routing-rld): >>=20 >> 1) ERLD means Entropy capable Readable Label Depth as defined in this dra= ft. However, it said "...A network node signalling an ERLD MUST support the a= bility to read the signalled number of labels before any action is done upon= the packet..." I'm wondering what actions other than the EL-based LB action= the "any action" could be since the ERLD has been tightly coupled with the E= L-based LB mechanism. In contrast, the RLD as defined in the two IGP drafts i= s not tightly couple with the EL-based LB action. In other words, the RLD ca= pability could be applicable to other use cases besides the EL-based LB. >>=20 >=20 > GV> This is exactly what I asked during the IETF100 IDR slot when I presen= ted the updated work. The consensus was that signalling of a readable label d= epth has entropy as the dominant use-case scenario. This is now documented i= n:=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07. Conse= nsus from IETF100 IDR meeting was that ERLD is the way forward for BGP-LS ba= sed signalling, and that maybe this should also be the case for both ISIS an= d OSPF drafts (however, that is different discussion). I agree with IDR con= sensus and it seems the most pragmatic path forward. >=20 >=20 >> 2) It said "...In existing technology both ISIS [4] and OSPF [3] have pro= posed extensions to signal the RLD (Readable Label Depth) and ELC (Entropy L= abel Capability) of a node or link. " However, there is no extensions to sig= nal the RLD and ELC of a link, if I remembered correctly as a co-author of t= he above two IGP drafts:) In fact, when the two IGP drafts were initially pr= oposed, some guys does argue why not advertise ELC and RLD of the per-link g= ranularity as well. After some discussion in IETF, a rough consensus had bee= n reached that the advertisement of ELC and RLD at a per node granularity wa= s good enough at that time. That's the reason why the two IGP drafts had not= been extended to advertise ELC and RLD at a per link granularity therefore.= Maybe we should reopen such discussion now? >>=20 >=20 > GV> I have no intend to open up that discussion at all, as it seems a prag= matic consensus was reached. Steering seems to become more complex when link= based ERLD is proposed and a potential set of different ERLDs are signalled= due to capabilities of the line-card HW. If for https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 we just need node based ERLD, then= I that is just fine. My personal opinion is that we need node ERLD for node= for sure in BGP-LS, and that link ERLD is a nice to have. It seems relative= easy and pragmatic to add both Link and node ERLD in current version of the= BGP-LS ERLD document. >=20 >> 3) It said "...if a network SDN controller is connected to the network th= rough a BGP-LS session and not through ISIS or OSPF technology, then both RL= D and ELC needs to be signaled in BGP-LS accordingly. This document describ= es the extension BGP-LS requires to transport the combination of RLD and ELC= into according ERLD attributes for nodes and links..." I have not yet found= any explanation about the motivation for advertising the combination of RLD= and ELC into according ERLD attributes rather than advertising these two at= tributes separately. Would it be better to give any explanation about such m= otivation in the Problem Statement section? >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > GV> Yes, indeed, again that was reason again that the work was presented d= uring IETF100 as I had some doubts myself. During IETF100 IDR meeting, I lea= rned and was confirmed that ERLD is now in the SPRING entropy label draft an= d that hence ERLD is to be signalled for the most prominent use-case driving= readable label depth signalling > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07. I see= no reason to open that discussion again, and current BGP-LS ERLD draft is i= nline the most dominant use-case scenario (Entropy based load-balancing). I c= ould change the existing text to refer to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-= ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 and only mention ERLD (and no longer menti= on ELC/RLD at all) if IDR WG find that better? >=20 > Brgds, >=20 > G/ >=20 >> Best regards, >> Xiaohu >>=20 >>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@ci= sco.com] >>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5= 12:16 >>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Christia= n Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-m= sd@ietf.org >>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segme= nt-routing-msd-07 >>>=20 >>> Hi Xu, >>>=20 >>> I am arguing the exact opposite of what you are saying. >>>=20 >>> Let us leave ELC/ERLD aside since it is very limited to entropy label us= e-case and >>> the proposed IGP/BGP-LS encoding is very specific to that. I am not sure= if this is >>> the time anymore to revisit that. >>>=20 >>> The MSD proposal came later and I support is since I've found its use to= be >>> much more widespread and the proposed IGP/BGP-LS protocol encoding to be= >>> very efficient as an implementer of these protocols. Hence the request t= o not >>> restrict it to "writable" or "imposition" cases solely. It is also not j= ust about >>> "readability" - which by itself is pretty meaningless. Even ERLD is abou= t >>> "reading" and then "doing *something specific* about it" as discussed in= >>> ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls. >>>=20 >>> There is no second thoughts about the IGP ELC drafts and they are very u= seful >>> and necessary. Just to be clear there is *no functional or operational c= hange* >>> that I am arguing for here. The discussion is purely on the way to handl= e these >>> encodings and whether we can use the MSD mechanism in a generalized >>> manner. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Ketan >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com] >>> Sent: 21 December 2017 08:10 >>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) >>> ; Christian Hopps ; isis-wg@ietf.or= g >>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>> Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-= segment-routing-msd-07 >>>=20 >>> Hi Les, >>>=20 >>> If I understand it correctly, the MSD concept was originated from >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#page-7) a= s >>> described below: >>>=20 >>> "The "Maximum SID Depth" (1 >>> octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label >>> stack depth in the context of this document) that a PCC is capable of >>> imposing on a packet." >>>=20 >>> Before considering expanding the semantics of the MSD concept as defined= in >>> the above PCE-SR draft, how about first considering renaming the capabil= ity of >>> imposing the maximum number of labels so as to eliminate possible confus= ions, >>> e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth (WLD) as opposed to the Readable Label-= stack >>> Depth (RLD) as defined in (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-m= pls-elc) >>> and (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc) ? >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Xiaohu >>>=20 >>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Les Ginsberg >>>> (ginsberg) >>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5= 4:02 >>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Christian Hopps= ; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-= msd@ietf.org >>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>=20 >>>> Ketan - >>>>=20 >>>> Thanx for the comments. >>>> I think we do want to allow MSD support for values other than >>>> imposition values. We will revise the text so we are not restricted to o= nly >>> imposition cases. >>>>=20 >>>> Les >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:51 AM >>>>> To: Christian Hopps ; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hello, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I support this document and would like to ask the authors and WG to >>>>> consider if we can expand the scope of this draft to not just >>>>> "imposition" of the SID stack but also other similar limits related >>>>> to other >>>> actions (e.g. >>>>> reading, processing, etc.). With Segment Routing, we are coming >>>>> across various actions that nodes need to do with the SID stack for >>>>> different purposes and IMHO it would be useful to extend the MSD >>>>> ability to cover those as they arise. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Ketan >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Christian Hopps >>>>> Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03 >>>>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd >>>>> / >>>>>=20 >>>>> which will last an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO patterns= . >>>>>=20 >>>>> An IPR statement exists: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-iet= f- >>>>> is >>>>> is- >>>>> segment-routing-msd >>>>>=20 >>>>> Authors please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware of >>>>> any >>>>> *new* IPR. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chris. >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf --Apple-Mail-7029ADBD-356B-4FB7-8C63-2DC25D74CCC8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gunter,

As I also said i= n Singapore - another interesting use case would be related to statistics, w= ithout going into semantics, we might need another SID in the stack to uniqu= ely identify a tunnel (domain wide)that would result in a counter hit. RLD i= s crucial here.
There would be some control plan implications on h= ow to correlate local counter name to domain wide tunnel identifier. Some YA= NG work as well (streaming telemetry related).

Happ= y Holidays everyone!

Regards,
Jeff=

On Dec 23, 2017, at 01:25, Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi Xiaohu,

Thanks for digging through the draft= .

See inline: GV&g= t;

On 23 Dec 2017, at 09:40, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I just read the draft (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-seg= ment-routing-rld) due to the curiosity of the ERLD terminology. I have thoug= ht that this draft is just about a straightforward BGP-LS extension for the R= LD concept as defined in draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc and draft-ietf-isis-mpls-e= lc according to the draft name. However it isn't in fact. Maybe the draft na= me should have been *-erld rather than *-rld.

I= have the following comments on this draft (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-ro= uting-rld):

1) ERLD means Entropy capable Reada= ble Label Depth as defined in this draft. However, it said "...A network nod= e signalling an ERLD MUST support the ability to read the signalled number o= f labels before any action is done upon the packet..." I'm wondering what ac= tions other than the EL-based LB action the "any action" could be since the E= RLD has been tightly coupled with the EL-based LB mechanism. In contrast, th= e RLD as defined in the two IGP drafts is not tightly couple with the EL-bas= ed LB action. In other words, the RLD capability could be applicable to othe= r use cases besides the EL-based LB.


GV> This is exactly what I a= sked during the IETF100 IDR slot when I presented the updated work. The cons= ensus was that signalling of a readable label depth has entropy as the domin= ant use-case scenario. This is now documented in: 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07. C= onsensus from IETF100 IDR meeting was that ERLD is the way forward for BGP-L= S based signalling, and that maybe this should also be the case for both ISI= S and OSPF drafts (however, that is different discussion).  I agree wit= h IDR consensus and it seems the most pragmatic path forward.


2) It said "...In existing technology both ISIS [4] a= nd OSPF [3] have proposed extensions to signal the RLD (Readable Label Depth= ) and ELC (Entropy Label Capability) of a node or link. " However, there is n= o extensions to signal the RLD and ELC of a link, if I remembered correctly a= s a co-author of the above two IGP drafts:) In fact, when the two IGP drafts= were initially proposed, some guys does argue why not advertise ELC and RLD= of the per-link granularity as well. After some discussion in IETF, a rough= consensus had been reached that the advertisement of ELC and RLD at a per n= ode granularity was good enough at that time. That's the reason why the two I= GP drafts had not been extended to advertise ELC and RLD at a per link granu= larity therefore. Maybe we should reopen such discussion now?
=

GV>= ; I have no intend to open up that discussion at all, as it seems a pragmati= c consensus was reached. Steering seems to become more complex when link bas= ed ERLD is proposed and a potential set of different ERLDs are signalled due= to capabilities of the line-card HW.  If for https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 we just need n= ode based ERLD, then I that is just fine. My personal opinion is that we nee= d node ERLD for node for sure in BGP-LS, and that link ERLD is a nice to hav= e. It seems relative easy and pragmatic to add both Link and node ERLD in cu= rrent version of the BGP-LS ERLD document.

3) It said "...if a n= etwork SDN controller is connected to the network through a BGP-LS session a= nd not through ISIS or OSPF technology, then both RLD and ELC needs to be si= gnaled in BGP-LS accordingly.  This document describes the extension BG= P-LS requires to transport the combination of RLD and ELC into according ERL= D attributes for nodes and links..." I have not yet found any explanation ab= out the motivation for advertising the combination of RLD and ELC into accor= ding ERLD attributes rather than advertising these two attributes separately= . Would it be better to give any explanation about such motivation in the Pr= oblem Statement section?


<= /div>

GV> Yes, indeed, again t= hat was reason again that the work was presented during IETF100 as I had som= e doubts myself. During IETF100 IDR meeting, I learned and was confirmed tha= t ERLD is now in the SPRING entropy label draft and that hence ERLD is to be= signalled for the most prominent use-case driving readable label depth sign= alling
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-= spring-entropy-label-07. I see no reason to open that discussion again, a= nd current BGP-LS ERLD draft is inline the most dominant use-case scenario (= Entropy based load-balancing). I could change the existing text to refer to&= nbsp;https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entro= py-label-07 and only mention ERLD (and no longer mention ELC/RLD at= all) if IDR WG find that better?

Brgds,=

G/

Best regards,
Xiaohu

= -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB= =B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6= =97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 12:16
=E6= =94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Christian Hopps= ; isis-wg@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: = isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-= segment-routing-msd-07

Hi Xu,
I am arguing the exact opposite of what you are saying.

Let us leave ELC/ERLD aside since it is very limited to= entropy label use-case and
the proposed IGP/BGP-LS encoding i= s very specific to that. I am not sure if this is
the time any= more to revisit that.

The MSD proposal came lat= er and I support is since I've found its use to be
much more w= idespread and the proposed IGP/BGP-LS protocol encoding to be
= very efficient as an implementer of these protocols. Hence the request to no= t
restrict it to "writable" or "imposition" cases solely. It i= s also not just about
"readability" - which by itself is prett= y meaningless. Even ERLD is about
"reading" and then "doing *s= omething specific* about it" as discussed in
ietf-spring-segme= nt-routing-mpls.

There is no second thoughts ab= out the IGP ELC drafts and they are very useful
and necessary.= Just to be clear there is *no functional or operational change*
that I am arguing for here. The discussion is purely on the way to handle= these
encodings and whether we can use the MSD mechanism in a= generalized
manner.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Xuxiaohu [= mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com]
Sent: 21 December 2017 08:10To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant@cisco.co= m>; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.o= rg
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for= draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hi Les,=

If I understand it correctly, the MSD concept w= as originated from
(https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#page-7) as
described b= elow:

"The "Maximum SID Depth" (1
  octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS l= abel
  stack depth in the context of this document)= that a PCC is capable of
  imposing on a packet."<= br class=3D"">
Before considering expanding the semantics of t= he MSD concept as defined in
the above PCE-SR draft, how about= first considering renaming the capability of
imposing the max= imum number of labels so as to eliminate possible confusions,
= e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth (WLD) as opposed to the Readable Label-stac= k
Depth (RLD) as defined in (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -ietf-ospf-mpls-elc)
and (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-ietf-isis-mpls-elc) ?

Best regards,
Xiaohu

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91= =E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Les Ginsberg=
(ginsberg)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4= : 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 4:02
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4= =BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81= : isis-ads@ietf.org; draft= -ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98= : Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routi= ng-msd-07

Ketan -

= Thanx for the comments.
I think we do want to allow MSD suppor= t for values other than
imposition values. We will revise the t= ext so we are not restricted to only
imposition c= ases.

&nb= sp;Les


-----Original Message-----
From: Ketan Talaulikar (= ketant)
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:51 AM
To: Christian Hopps <c= hopps@chopps.org>; isi= s-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft= -ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hello,

I support this document and would like to ask the aut= hors and WG to
consider if we can expand the scope of this dra= ft to not just
"imposition" of the SID stack but also other si= milar limits related
to other
actio= ns (e.g.
reading, process= ing, etc.). With Segment Routing, we are coming
across various= actions that nodes need to do with the SID stack for
differen= t purposes and IMHO it would be useful to extend the MSD
abili= ty to cover those as they arise.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Christian H= opps
Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03
To: isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: <= a href=3D"mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org" class=3D"">isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-i= etf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: [Isis-wg] W= G Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07


The authors have asked for and we are s= tarting a WG Last Call on


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-m= sd
/

which will last an exten= ded 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO patterns.

An IPR statement exists:


https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraf= t-ietf-
is
is-
segment-routing= -msd

Authors please reply to the list indicatin= g whether you are aware of
any
*new* IPR.

Thanks,
Chris.

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mai= ling list
Isis-wg@ietf.org=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg<= br class=3D"">
____________________________________= ___________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

<= /blockquote>
= --Apple-Mail-7029ADBD-356B-4FB7-8C63-2DC25D74CCC8-- From nobody Sat Dec 23 12:08:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F5612025C; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 12:07:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=icloud.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jCZUdECN_wiW; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 12:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com (st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com [17.164.40.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD2371200F3; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 12:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from process-dkim-sign-daemon.st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com by st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) id <0P1F00600JR7NS00@st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com>; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:07:48 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=04042017; t=1514059668; bh=oB6mn4ivHya0wBcQaVYdbwjMxTU5JECQKTM7tUHprcY=; h=From:Message-id:Content-type:MIME-version:Subject:Date:To; b=E9WKQDGPkcLc9sz9Z437p+JzmDsSbihNau0dwwFW7V3icNZMPGwK4yn3pbXzd1al5 /WjnPvL67a04iXKLSN1KTevGh5sDePeXAodu85Y+MjQdLc4/iGZLQfz/0Yi6zh4u0e X8vLhsSwDFBWNiD8+29Tu//T0ToPqHYOMYmylFASuiHmUFOA8lc9f8nyGfVgoCvVDQ 2qDhMcJ8m3PlyQDJ7mtD/L9Vu5PVIoorMt27mRbFD2b/OHCuo3uTbMuySK2sfxR+ff FD1RE0VHGX/PSlfFWamkv52lxlJK092zTAYIDQyi71MuU5s3YXkzdYi6F4vXb7fbOg gn5Lw1lrwkDiw== Received: from icloud.com ([127.0.0.1]) by st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0P1F001JRJWQIN30@st13p11im-asmtp004.me.com>; Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:07:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2017-12-23_12:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=3 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1712230277 From: Gunter Van De Velde Message-id: Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C869F3AC-7CFD-460B-9EFE-8B200A03CDDD" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 21:07:38 +0100 In-reply-to: Cc: Xuxiaohu , "idr@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" To: Jeff Tantsura References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A7A3E@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] [OSPF] [Idr] A comment regarding the relationship between RLD and ERLD X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2017 20:07:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C869F3AC-7CFD-460B-9EFE-8B200A03CDDD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jeff, Correct. I referenced below to =E2=80=98dominant use cases being = entropy=E2=80=9D for a reason. There is indeed use case regarding alternate marking using Synonymous = Flow Labels and another one involving=20 potential statistics marking using targeted labels. This understanding = drove to question at IETF100 IDR meeting to=20 go for either =E2=80=9CERLD=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CRLD/ELC=E2=80=9D (or = even additional capabilities signalled).=20 The consensus at IDR@IETF100 was that dominant use-case is entropy and = that ERLD is the logical info to signal in BGP-LS.=20 I had/have no strong bias with going either way. I just am little = dazzled that for some reason the discussion is opened up again now we = had consensus. G/ > On 23 Dec 2017, at 20:09, Jeff Tantsura = wrote: >=20 > Gunter, >=20 > As I also said in Singapore - another interesting use case would be = related to statistics, without going into semantics, we might need = another SID in the stack to uniquely identify a tunnel (domain wide)that = would result in a counter hit. RLD is crucial here. > There would be some control plan implications on how to correlate = local counter name to domain wide tunnel identifier. Some YANG work as = well (streaming telemetry related). >=20 > Happy Holidays everyone! >=20 > Regards, > Jeff >=20 > On Dec 23, 2017, at 01:25, Gunter Van De Velde = > = wrote: >=20 >> Hi Xiaohu, >>=20 >> Thanks for digging through the draft. >>=20 >> See inline: GV> >>=20 >>> On 23 Dec 2017, at 09:40, Xuxiaohu > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> I just read the draft (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld) = due to the curiosity of the ERLD terminology. I have thought that this = draft is just about a straightforward BGP-LS extension for the RLD = concept as defined in draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc and = draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc according to the draft name. However it isn't = in fact. Maybe the draft name should have been *-erld rather than *-rld. >>>=20 >>> I have the following comments on this draft = (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld): >>>=20 >>> 1) ERLD means Entropy capable Readable Label Depth as defined in = this draft. However, it said "...A network node signalling an ERLD MUST = support the ability to read the signalled number of labels before any = action is done upon the packet..." I'm wondering what actions other than = the EL-based LB action the "any action" could be since the ERLD has been = tightly coupled with the EL-based LB mechanism. In contrast, the RLD as = defined in the two IGP drafts is not tightly couple with the EL-based LB = action. In other words, the RLD capability could be applicable to other = use cases besides the EL-based LB. >>>=20 >>=20 >> GV> This is exactly what I asked during the IETF100 IDR slot when I = presented the updated work. The consensus was that signalling of a = readable label depth has entropy as the dominant use-case scenario. This = is now documented in:=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = . = Consensus from IETF100 IDR meeting was that ERLD is the way forward for = BGP-LS based signalling, and that maybe this should also be the case for = both ISIS and OSPF drafts (however, that is different discussion). I = agree with IDR consensus and it seems the most pragmatic path forward. >>=20 >>=20 >>> 2) It said "...In existing technology both ISIS [4] and OSPF [3] = have proposed extensions to signal the RLD (Readable Label Depth) and = ELC (Entropy Label Capability) of a node or link. " However, there is no = extensions to signal the RLD and ELC of a link, if I remembered = correctly as a co-author of the above two IGP drafts:) In fact, when the = two IGP drafts were initially proposed, some guys does argue why not = advertise ELC and RLD of the per-link granularity as well. After some = discussion in IETF, a rough consensus had been reached that the = advertisement of ELC and RLD at a per node granularity was good enough = at that time. That's the reason why the two IGP drafts had not been = extended to advertise ELC and RLD at a per link granularity therefore. = Maybe we should reopen such discussion now? >>>=20 >>=20 >> GV> I have no intend to open up that discussion at all, as it seems a = pragmatic consensus was reached. Steering seems to become more complex = when link based ERLD is proposed and a potential set of different ERLDs = are signalled due to capabilities of the line-card HW. If for = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = we = just need node based ERLD, then I that is just fine. My personal opinion = is that we need node ERLD for node for sure in BGP-LS, and that link = ERLD is a nice to have. It seems relative easy and pragmatic to add both = Link and node ERLD in current version of the BGP-LS ERLD document. >>=20 >>> 3) It said "...if a network SDN controller is connected to the = network through a BGP-LS session and not through ISIS or OSPF = technology, then both RLD and ELC needs to be signaled in BGP-LS = accordingly. This document describes the extension BGP-LS requires to = transport the combination of RLD and ELC into according ERLD attributes = for nodes and links..." I have not yet found any explanation about the = motivation for advertising the combination of RLD and ELC into according = ERLD attributes rather than advertising these two attributes separately. = Would it be better to give any explanation about such motivation in the = Problem Statement section? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> GV> Yes, indeed, again that was reason again that the work was = presented during IETF100 as I had some doubts myself. During IETF100 IDR = meeting, I learned and was confirmed that ERLD is now in the SPRING = entropy label draft and that hence ERLD is to be signalled for the most = prominent use-case driving readable label depth signalling >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = . I = see no reason to open that discussion again, and current BGP-LS ERLD = draft is inline the most dominant use-case scenario (Entropy based = load-balancing). I could change the existing text to refer to = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-07 = = and only mention ERLD (and no longer mention ELC/RLD at all) if IDR WG = find that better? >>=20 >> Brgds, >>=20 >> G/ >>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Xiaohu >>>=20 >>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) = [mailto:ketant@cisco.com ] >>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 12:16 >>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); = Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org = >>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Xu, >>>>=20 >>>> I am arguing the exact opposite of what you are saying. >>>>=20 >>>> Let us leave ELC/ERLD aside since it is very limited to entropy = label use-case and >>>> the proposed IGP/BGP-LS encoding is very specific to that. I am not = sure if this is >>>> the time anymore to revisit that. >>>>=20 >>>> The MSD proposal came later and I support is since I've found its = use to be >>>> much more widespread and the proposed IGP/BGP-LS protocol encoding = to be >>>> very efficient as an implementer of these protocols. Hence the = request to not >>>> restrict it to "writable" or "imposition" cases solely. It is also = not just about >>>> "readability" - which by itself is pretty meaningless. Even ERLD is = about >>>> "reading" and then "doing *something specific* about it" as = discussed in >>>> ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls. >>>>=20 >>>> There is no second thoughts about the IGP ELC drafts and they are = very useful >>>> and necessary. Just to be clear there is *no functional or = operational change* >>>> that I am arguing for here. The discussion is purely on the way to = handle these >>>> encodings and whether we can use the MSD mechanism in a generalized >>>> manner. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ketan >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com = ] >>>> Sent: 21 December 2017 08:10 >>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>> >; Christian Hopps = >; isis-wg@ietf.org = >>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org = >>>> Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Les, >>>>=20 >>>> If I understand it correctly, the MSD concept was originated from >>>> = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#page-7 = ) = as >>>> described below: >>>>=20 >>>> "The "Maximum SID Depth" (1 >>>> octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS = label >>>> stack depth in the context of this document) that a PCC is = capable of >>>> imposing on a packet." >>>>=20 >>>> Before considering expanding the semantics of the MSD concept as = defined in >>>> the above PCE-SR draft, how about first considering renaming the = capability of >>>> imposing the maximum number of labels so as to eliminate possible = confusions, >>>> e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth (WLD) as opposed to the Readable = Label-stack >>>> Depth (RLD) as defined in = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc = ) >>>> and (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc = ) ? >>>>=20 >>>> Best regards, >>>> Xiaohu >>>>=20 >>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg = [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org ] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Les Ginsberg >>>>> (ginsberg) >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 4:02 >>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Christian = Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org = >>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ketan - >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanx for the comments. >>>>> I think we do want to allow MSD support for values other than >>>>> imposition values. We will revise the text so we are not = restricted to only >>>> imposition cases. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Les >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:51 AM >>>>>> To: Christian Hopps >; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org = >>>>>> Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I support this document and would like to ask the authors and WG = to >>>>>> consider if we can expand the scope of this draft to not just >>>>>> "imposition" of the SID stack but also other similar limits = related >>>>>> to other >>>>> actions (e.g. >>>>>> reading, processing, etc.). With Segment Routing, we are coming >>>>>> across various actions that nodes need to do with the SID stack = for >>>>>> different purposes and IMHO it would be useful to extend the MSD >>>>>> ability to cover those as they arise. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Ketan >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Christian Hopps >>>>>> Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03 >>>>>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org = >>>>>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd = >>>>>> / >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> which will last an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO = patterns. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> An IPR statement exists: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf- = = >>>>>> is >>>>>> is- >>>>>> segment-routing-msd >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Authors please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware = of >>>>>> any >>>>>> *new* IPR. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chris. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr = >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> OSPF mailing list >> OSPF@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf = --Apple-Mail=_C869F3AC-7CFD-460B-9EFE-8B200A03CDDD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Jeff,

Correct. I = referenced below to =E2=80=98dominant use cases being entropy=E2=80=9D = for a reason.

There is indeed use case regarding alternate marking using = Synonymous Flow Labels and another one involving 
potential statistics marking using targeted labels. This = understanding drove to question at IETF100 IDR meeting = to 
go for either =E2=80=9CERLD=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9CRLD/ELC=E2=80=9D (or even additional capabilities = signalled). 

The consensus at IDR@IETF100 was that dominant use-case is = entropy and that ERLD is the logical info to signal in = BGP-LS. 
I had/have no strong bias with going = either way. I just am little dazzled that for some reason the discussion = is opened up again now we had consensus.

G/

On 23 = Dec 2017, at 20:09, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Gunter,
As I also said in Singapore = - another interesting use case would be related to statistics, without = going into semantics, we might need another SID in the stack to uniquely = identify a tunnel (domain wide)that would result in a counter hit. RLD = is crucial here.
There would be some control = plan implications on how to correlate local counter name to domain wide = tunnel identifier. Some YANG work as well (streaming telemetry = related).

Happy Holidays everyone!

Regards,
Jeff

On Dec 23, 2017, at 01:25, Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi = Xiaohu,

Thanks for = digging through the draft.

See inline: GV>

On 23 = Dec 2017, at 09:40, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi = all,

I just read the draft = (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld) due to the curiosity of the = ERLD terminology. I have thought that this draft is just about a = straightforward BGP-LS extension for the RLD concept as defined in = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc and draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc according to the = draft name. However it isn't in fact. Maybe the draft name should have = been *-erld rather than *-rld.

I have the = following comments on this draft = (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-rld):

1) ERLD means Entropy capable Readable Label Depth as defined = in this draft. However, it said "...A network node signalling an ERLD = MUST support the ability to read the signalled number of labels before = any action is done upon the packet..." I'm wondering what actions other = than the EL-based LB action the "any action" could be since the ERLD has = been tightly coupled with the EL-based LB mechanism. In contrast, the = RLD as defined in the two IGP drafts is not tightly couple with the = EL-based LB action. In other words, the RLD capability could be = applicable to other use cases besides the EL-based LB.


GV> This is exactly what I asked = during the IETF100 IDR slot when I presented the updated work. The = consensus was that signalling of a readable label depth has entropy as = the dominant use-case scenario. This is now documented = in: 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07. Consensus from IETF100 IDR meeting was that ERLD is the way = forward for BGP-LS based signalling, and that maybe this should also be = the case for both ISIS and OSPF drafts (however, that is different = discussion).  I agree with IDR consensus and it seems the most = pragmatic path forward.


2) It said "...In existing technology both ISIS [4] and OSPF = [3] have proposed extensions to signal the RLD (Readable Label Depth) = and ELC (Entropy Label Capability) of a node or link. " However, there = is no extensions to signal the RLD and ELC of a link, if I remembered = correctly as a co-author of the above two IGP drafts:) In fact, when the = two IGP drafts were initially proposed, some guys does argue why not = advertise ELC and RLD of the per-link granularity as well. After some = discussion in IETF, a rough consensus had been reached that the = advertisement of ELC and RLD at a per node granularity was good enough = at that time. That's the reason why the two IGP drafts had not been = extended to advertise ELC and RLD at a per link granularity therefore. = Maybe we should reopen such discussion now?


GV> I have no intend to open up that = discussion at all, as it seems a pragmatic consensus was reached. = Steering seems to become more complex when link based ERLD is proposed = and a potential set of different ERLDs are signalled due to capabilities = of the line-card HW.  If for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07 we just need = node based ERLD, then I that is just fine. My personal opinion is that = we need node ERLD for node for sure in BGP-LS, and that link ERLD is a = nice to have. It seems relative easy and pragmatic to add both Link and = node ERLD in current version of the BGP-LS ERLD document.

3) It said "...if a network SDN controller is connected to = the network through a BGP-LS session and not through ISIS or OSPF = technology, then both RLD and ELC needs to be signaled in BGP-LS = accordingly.  This document describes the extension BGP-LS requires = to transport the combination of RLD and ELC into according ERLD = attributes for nodes and links..." I have not yet found any explanation = about the motivation for advertising the combination of RLD and ELC into = according ERLD attributes rather than advertising these two attributes = separately. Would it be better to give any explanation about such = motivation in the Problem Statement section?



GV> Yes, indeed, again that was = reason again that the work was presented during IETF100 as I had some = doubts myself. During IETF100 IDR meeting, I learned and was confirmed = that ERLD is now in the SPRING entropy label draft and that hence ERLD = is to be signalled for the most prominent use-case driving readable = label depth signalling
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07. I see no reason to open that discussion again, and current = BGP-LS ERLD draft is inline the most dominant use-case scenario (Entropy = based load-balancing). I could change the existing text to refer = to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe= l-07 and only mention ERLD (and no longer mention ELC/RLD at = all) if IDR WG find that better?

Brgds,

G/

Best = regards,
Xiaohu

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6= =97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 12:16
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu; Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg); Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hi = Xu,

I am arguing the exact opposite of what = you are saying.

Let us leave ELC/ERLD aside = since it is very limited to entropy label use-case and
the = proposed IGP/BGP-LS encoding is very specific to that. I am not sure if = this is
the time anymore to revisit that.

The MSD proposal came later and I support is since I've found = its use to be
much more widespread and the proposed = IGP/BGP-LS protocol encoding to be
very efficient as an = implementer of these protocols. Hence the request to not
restrict it to "writable" or "imposition" cases solely. It is = also not just about
"readability" - which by itself is = pretty meaningless. Even ERLD is about
"reading" and then = "doing *something specific* about it" as discussed in
ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls.

There is no second thoughts about the IGP ELC drafts and they = are very useful
and necessary. Just to be clear there is = *no functional or operational change*
that I am arguing = for here. The discussion is purely on the way to handle these
encodings and whether we can use the MSD mechanism in a = generalized
manner.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original = Message-----
From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com]
Sent: 21 = December 2017 08:10
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant@cisco.com>; = Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hi = Les,

If I understand it correctly, the MSD = concept was originated from
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#p= age-7) as
described below:

"The "Maximum SID Depth" (1
  octet) = field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label
  stack depth in the context of this document) that = a PCC is capable of
  imposing on a packet."

Before considering expanding the semantics of = the MSD concept as defined in
the above PCE-SR draft, how = about first considering renaming the capability of
imposing = the maximum number of labels so as to eliminate possible confusions,
e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth (WLD) as opposed to the = Readable Label-stack
Depth (RLD) as defined in (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc)
and (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc) = ?

Best regards,
Xiaohu

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Les = Ginsberg
(ginsberg)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6= =E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 4:02
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); = Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Ketan -

Thanx for the = comments.
I think we do want to allow MSD support for = values other than
imposition values. We will revise the = text so we are not restricted to only
imposition cases.

 Les


-----Original Message-----
From: Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 = 1:51 AM
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07

Hello,

I support this document = and would like to ask the authors and WG to
consider if we = can expand the scope of this draft to not just
"imposition" = of the SID stack but also other similar limits related
to = other
actions (e.g.
reading, processing, etc.). With Segment = Routing, we are coming
across various actions that nodes = need to do with the SID stack for
different purposes and = IMHO it would be useful to extend the MSD
ability to cover = those as they arise.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original = Message-----
From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Christian Hopps
Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03
To: isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org
Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07


The authors have asked for and we are starting = a WG Last Call on


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routin= g-msd
/

which will last = an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO patterns.

An IPR statement exists:


https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3D= draft-ietf-
is
is-
segment-routing-msd

Authors = please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware of
any
*new* IPR.

Thanks,
Chris.

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
_____________________________________= __________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

_______________________________________________
OSPF mailing list
OSPF@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf

= --Apple-Mail=_C869F3AC-7CFD-460B-9EFE-8B200A03CDDD-- From nobody Thu Dec 28 09:14:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9DE12D94A; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:14:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RAPxKV0zpont; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x236.google.com (mail-wr0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AA9612706D; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x236.google.com with SMTP id 36so6450688wrh.1; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:14:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=drKq8GYbAElRuyHqLfoAKazbUPLzik4UNzdXNu+mV2A=; b=vePKSuQlMfKjSkYE8W+E+qVS+L7Fzxyf5qJYS12mK3cidSaQsYMoRCF8UtGfTGXEBs MLXIAE9m473/EKaCoZo/5XUEGwKMH/rEu6ur1wKT7gbv+VWoNhKmcSsXUrHeUHjO+spL oK6JtnCzr7DPEYcdxdr6cI7afIu/lGPk+LunYQRpxWMyC19NuIBjRVzOb86KlUYJV2ra aaT/7cHbPBU3q1WISoAC7nB5YgtAxMaZJKgVtcJqU3cqLBCeQR6ed9aDTS4f9rnh1n13 1nz2kY1q90o2YuDH416mWHzjFKZzKO4OfbAk8V34pIfa/4Nuqi7ZtE6NwRuE161Kc+HM 73sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=drKq8GYbAElRuyHqLfoAKazbUPLzik4UNzdXNu+mV2A=; b=RUVsN4rkX2SKz/91aqyXRrnuZDr4HgLgGGrDMcPzTtdok99KaYlngsJJ2qYioCpUTk lkgTt2qHgB8iCDtrhaLJOciexNZ3Vt27Hc7LcgaUgMx2hkrwoNP5dmHAo9Jpg8URUFUX SD7VveTZddi1t/0Cp53gMsY71EyQD4lKF/YYDye+tpv4PPsCCcoV78cXRlSeTg70UZNw yMxc+Zt64Qfk/O3A9J9T1kOe5SOlL3rLgUnuEe0DywhYoCHKWhfjHtMEua9GAu5F91vD 5dB/xO+5FdRfchwieFYTmrZHIJxgBIQ1DxDU9o16J1vLx5xyoUY+IEsX1/w8piLfipIg uR9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJSUMVWqSPX2K2Hh7E5x02UZ74bq6sZ9eVoXeMZEo6znDSN8Uof 2Hc7+J0rb7s86p1r3QF6CQfVS4x4ipOAD1DyKpY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouQEN7rADsPwdZXL7kBs0HUY1YgIMZNBmycmNbFg3YjPipfhKYoxXsTPUMAu/XAFbbFyzuHPN7hPyZ9U+WTU34= X-Received: by 10.223.201.6 with SMTP id m6mr29639645wrh.107.1514481285799; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:14:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 09:14:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:14:45 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Od0opGjXjutj55PQN9OnRVWmIlA Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: "bess@ietf.org" , draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn.authors@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082f9bbc0f22b9056169a70e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Comments on draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:14:51 -0000 --089e082f9bbc0f22b9056169a70e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Eric, A lot of your comments are an indication that you treat SID to be IPv6 address fully responsible for demux to proper VRF or CE. This was never the intention. Imagine egress PE having /64 loopback. Then you have remaining 64 bits to put there a 20 bit VPN label (as we know it :) and even much more then that. You can attach new arbitrary new functions to this single "VPN SID". And further notice that this has no bearing on SID being routable or not. Only the first /64 bits of the dst address need to be routable in order for forwarding packets to happen ... So by no means there should be a case to have per vrf IPv6 address or per CE IPv6 address and make it fully /128 routable. Happy New Year ! Robert. On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > Following are a few comments (look for lines beginning ****) on > draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03. The name of the draft notwithstanding, I > think this is clearly a draft that falls within the scope of BESS, so I've > sent my comments to the BESS list. (Also copying the 12 "authors" ;-)) > > Section 1 > > ... > > To provide SRv6-VPN service with best-effort connectivity, the egress > PE signals an SRv6-VPN SID with the VPN route. The ingress PE > encapsulates the VPN packet in an outer IPv6 header where the > destination address is the SRv6-VPN SID provided by the egress PE. > The underlay between the PE's only need to support plain IPv6 > forwarding [RFC2460]. > > **** This suggests that an IPv6 address has to be assigned to each VRF (for > **** per-VRF "labeling"), or even to each CE (for per-CE labeling). > **** Presumably these would be taken from an IPv6 prefix owned by the > **** advertising PE? Or not? > > **** If those addresses are routable, doesn't this create a security issue > **** as discussed in RFC 4023 Section 8.2? > > Section 3 > > ... > > For egress-PEs which supports SRv6-VPN advertises an SRv6-VPN SID > with VPN routes. This SRv6-VPN SID only has local significance at > the egress-PE where it is allocated or configured on a per-CE or per- > VRF basis. > > **** The phrase "only has local significance" suggests that these SIDs are > **** not routable. But later on there is a suggestion that they are > **** routable, or at least that they might be. > > ... > > In practice, the SID encodes a cross-connect to a > specific Address Family table (END.DT) or next-hop/interface (END.DX) > as defined in the SRv6 Network Programming Document > [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming] > > **** I'm not sure what is meant by "in practice". Aren't these semantics > **** NECESSSARY in order to provide the L3VPN service? > > The SRv6 VPN SID MAY be routable within the AS of the egress-PE and > serves the dual purpose of providing reachability between ingress-PE > and egress-PE while also encoding the VPN identifier. > > **** Did you mean: > > The SRv6 VPN SID MAY be routable all along the path from the ingress-PE > to the egress-PE, and if so, MAY serve the dual purpose of providing > reachability between ingress-PE and egress-PE while also encoding the > VPN > identifier. > > **** Though I guess if the SID is routable only in the egress AS, one could > **** tunnel to an entry point of that AS and then route within the AS based > **** on the SID. (Of course this amplifies the spoofing problem discussed > **** in Section 8.2 of RFC 4023.) > > **** So there are a number of options: > **** - not routable > **** - globally routable > **** - routable only within egress AS > > **** If the intention is to allow all those options, please explain the > **** signaling that lets the ingress PE know which option to use. Or is > the > **** intention that this is known a priori (i.e., via provisioning)? > > To support SRv6 based L3VPN overlay, a SID is advertised with BGP > MPLS L3VPN route update[RFC4364]. SID is encoded in a SRv6-VPN SID > TLV, which is optional transitive BGP Prefix SID > attribute[I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid]. This attribute serves two > purposes; first it indicates that the BGP egress device is reachable > via an SRv6 underlay > > **** Whether the egress PE is reachable via an SRv6 underlay has nothing to > **** do with the presence or absence of the SRv6-VPN SID TLV. The presence > **** of that TLV really only means that the egress PE can handle the SRv6 > **** encapsulation for L3VPN. > > and the BGP ingress device receiving this route > MAY choose to encapsulate or insert an SRv6 SRH, second it indicates > the value of the SID to include in the SRH encapsulation. For L3VPN, > only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY be necessary. > > **** I don't understand the phrase "only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY be > **** necessary". > > A BGP speaker supporting an SRv6 underlay MAY distribute SID per route > via the BGP SRv6-VPN Attribute. > > **** I think you mean "If a PE supports an SRv6 underlay, it may attach the > **** BGP SRv6-VPN attribute to the VPN-IP routes that it originates". > > If the BGP speaker supports MPLS based > L3VPN simultaneously, it MAY also populate the Label values in L3VPN > route types and allow the BGP ingress device to decide which > encapsulation to use. If the BGP speaker does not support MPLS based > L3VPN services the MPLS Labels in L3VPN route types MUST be set to > IMPLICIT-NULL. > > **** Please provide a reference that specifies how you set the Label field > **** of a SAFI-4 or SAFI-128 route to "implicit null". I don't recall any > **** such thing existing in RFC 3107, 4364, or 8277. > > **** If you mean "set to zero", I think that will generally be interpreted > **** in a SAFI-4 or SAFI-128 route as "push on label 0 (explicit null)". > > **** If you mean "set to three" (the value defined in RFC 3032 to represent > **** "implicit null"), I don't think the SAFI-4/SAFI-128 implementations > **** generally interpret the value three in that manner. > > **** I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. There are at least > **** four cases to consider: > > **** 1. For the case where the backbone doesn't have MPLS, there is no harm > **** in saying "set the label to zero". > > **** 2. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, and > **** some PEs support L3VPN both ways, while others support only MPLS-based > **** L3VPN, then a real label needs to be put in. > > **** 3. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, but a > **** particular egress PE only supports SRv6, there needs to be some way to > **** instruct the ingress PEs to use SRv6 and not MPLS. Perhaps the > **** presence of the prefix-SID attribute with VPN-SID TLV is sufficient. > > **** 4. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, the > **** egress PE supports both for transit, but the egress PE only supports > **** SRv6 for L3VPN, the label in the SAFI-1/SAFI-128 routes should be a > **** value that will cause the egress PE to discard the packet. If there > **** happens to be an ingress PE that only supports the MPLS style of > L3VPN, > **** this will prevent the egress PE from misrouting MPLS packets that > **** arrive from that ingress PE. (This would be an odd, probably > **** transitional, deployment. But the draft isn't very explicit about > just > **** what combinations of MPLS and SRv6 it is supposed to support.) > > **** In any event, the draft would be better off specifying the actual > label value > **** to be included rather than saying "implicit null". This occurs several > **** times in the draft. > > Section 3.1 > > ... > > SRv6-VPN SID is encoded as part of the SRv6-VPN SID TLV defined in > Section 2. The function of the SRv6 SID is entirely up to the > originator of the advertisement. In practice, the function may > likely be End.DX4 or End.DT4. > > **** Obviously, the behavior is not up to the originator, it MUST provide > **** the functionality necessary to provide the behavior that would have > been > **** provided by the MPLS label(s). Statements like this occur several > **** times in the draft and should all be fixed. > > Section 4 > > ... > > Ethernet VPN(EVPN), as defined in [RFC7432] provides an extendable > method of building an EVPN overlay. It primarily focuses on MPLS > based EVPNs but calls out the extensibility to IP based EVPN > overlays. It defines 4 route-types which carry prefixes and MPLS > Label attributes, the Labels each have specific use for MPLS > encapsulation of EVPN traffic. The fifth route-type carrying MPLS > label information (and thus encapsulation information) for EVPN is > defined in[I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-prefix-advertisement]. > > The Route Types discussed below are: > > **** After carefully counting up to five route types, the document then > proceeds to identify eight route types ;-) > > **** And there are lots more on the way! > > Section 4.1.1 > > ... > > SRv6-VPN TLV MAY be advertised along with the route advertisement and > the behavior of the SRv6-VPN SID is entirely up to the originator of > the advertisement. In practice, the behavior would likely be > Arg.FE2. > > **** This seems to require that a unique IPv6 address be assigned to each > **** ES. Is that the intention? If so, then probably those addresses > **** should not be routable. > > ... > > Section 4.3 > > ... > > An Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag route type specific EVPN NLRI > consists of the following [RFC7432] where: > > o BGP next-hop: IPv6 address of egress PE > > **** I don't think there is any reason for this document to specify the > **** contents of the NH field of the IMET route. The above doesn't make > **** much sense anyway, as the term "egress PE" doesn't really make sense > in > **** the context of the IMET route, and the next hop can change as the > route > **** is propagated. > > o SRv6-VPN TLV MAY encode END.DX2/END.DT2M function. > > o BGP Attribute: PMSI Tunnel Attribute[RFC6514] MAY contain MPLS > implicit-null label and Tunnel Type would be similar to defined in > EVPN Type-6 i.e. Ingress replication route. > > **** Is the intention to prohibit the use of either P2MP tunnels or > assisted > **** replication in an SRv6 overlay? That seems to be a consequence of the > **** above. If that's the intention, please say so explicitly and do not > **** leave it as an inference. If that's not the intention, then do not > say > **** what the tunnel type should be. > > The format of PMSI Tunnel Attribute attribute is encoded as follows > for an SRv6 Core: > > +---------------------------------------+ > | Flag (1 octet) | > +---------------------------------------+ > | Tunnel Type (1 octet) | > +---------------------------------------+ > | MPLS label (3 octet) | > +---------------------------------------+ > | Tunnel Identifier (variable) | > +---------------------------------------+ > > o Flag: zero value defined per [RFC7432] > > **** The EVPN specs (of which RFC 7432 is not the only one) use five or six > **** of the PMSI tunnel attribute flags. This spec should not say to set > **** the flags to zero, unless it is meant to prohibit the use of any > **** function requiring the flags. > > o Tunnel Type: defined per [RFC6514] > > o MPLS label: Implicit-Null > > **** MPLS label should be zero; in the PMSI Tunnel attribute, it is clear > **** that zero means "no label is specified". > > o Tunnel Identifier: IP address of egress PE > > **** This makes no sense when P2MP tunnels are used. > > **** For IR, the tunnel identifier is the identifier of the PE originating > **** the route, per RFC 7432 section 11.2. > > **** Note that this will require that a unique IPv6 address be assigned to > **** each Broadcast Domain; that should be stated explicitly. > > **** In a draft entitled " BGP Signaling of IPv6-Segment-Routing-based VPN > **** Networks", it would be nice if the following little details were > **** mentioned explicitly: > > **** - In L3VPN, an IPv6 address must be assigned to each VRF (or to each > **** VRF interface) > > **** - In EVPN, an IPv6 address must be assigned to each ES. > > **** - In EVPN, an IPv6 address must be assigned to each BD. > > **** It would also be nice if multicast were covered in both MVPN and EVPN. > > ... > > 6. Implementation Status > > The SRv6-VPN is available for SRv6 on various Cisco hardware and > other software platforms. > > **** Does it provide the full set of L3VPN/EVPN features? If not, > **** what subset of features are supported? Does it support > **** transitional scenarios without relying on non-standard > **** behaviors? > > ... > > 7. Error Handling of BGP SRv6 SID Updates > > When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a > malformed SRv6-VPN SID TLV, it MUST ignore the received BGP > attributes and not pass it to other BGP peers. This is equivalent to > the -attribute discard- action specified in [RFC7606]. When > discarding an attribute, a BGP speaker MAY log an error for further > analysis. > > **** If the attribute is discarded, and there is no label (or the backbone) > **** doesn't support MPLS, what will happen to the VPN traffic? Can it be > **** misdelivered outside the VPN? That wouldn't be very good. > > > > > > > --089e082f9bbc0f22b9056169a70e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Eric,

A lot of your comments are an indication that you tr= eat SID to be IPv6 address fully responsible for demux to proper VRF or CE.= This was never the intention.=C2=A0

Imagine egress PE having /64 loopback. Then you have remaini= ng 64 bits to put there a 20 bit VPN label (as we know it :) and even much = more then that. You can attach new arbitrary new functions to this single &= quot;VPN SID".=C2=A0

And further notice that this has no bearing on SID being routable or no= t. Only the first /64 bits of the dst address need to be routable in order = for forwarding packets to happen ... So by no means there should be a case = to have per vrf IPv6 address or per CE IPv6 address and make it fully /128 = routable.=C2=A0

Happy = New Year !
Robert.


On Thu, D= ec 28, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> w= rote:
Following are a few comments (look = for lines beginning ****) on draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03.=C2=A0 The name of= the draft notwithstanding, I think this is clearly a draft that falls with= in the scope of BESS, so I've sent my comments to the BESS list. (Also = copying the 12 "authors" ;-))

Section 1

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 To provide SRv6-VPN service with best-effort connectivity, the= egress
=C2=A0=C2=A0 PE signals an SRv6-VPN SID with the VPN route.=C2=A0 The ingre= ss PE
=C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulates the VPN packet in an outer IPv6 header where the<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0 destination address is the SRv6-VPN SID provided by the egress= PE.
=C2=A0=C2=A0 The underlay between the PE's only need to support plain I= Pv6
=C2=A0=C2=A0 forwarding [RFC2460].

**** This suggests that an IPv6 address has to be assigned to each VRF (for=
**** per-VRF "labeling"), or even to each CE (for per-CE labeling= ).
**** Presumably these would be taken from an IPv6 prefix owned by the
**** advertising PE?=C2=A0 Or not?

**** If those addresses are routable, doesn't this create a security is= sue
**** as discussed in RFC 4023 Section 8.2?

Section 3

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 For egress-PEs which supports SRv6-VPN advertises an SRv6-VPN = SID
=C2=A0=C2=A0 with VPN routes.=C2=A0 This SRv6-VPN SID only has local signif= icance at
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the egress-PE where it is allocated or configured on a per-CE = or per-
=C2=A0=C2=A0 VRF basis.

**** The phrase "only has local significance" suggests that these= SIDs are
**** not routable. But later on there is a suggestion that they are
**** routable, or at least that they might be.

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 In practice, the SID encodes a cross-connect to a
=C2=A0=C2=A0 specific Address Family table (END.DT) or next-hop/interface (= END.DX)
=C2=A0=C2=A0 as defined in the SRv6 Network Programming Document
=C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming]

**** I'm not sure what is meant by "in practice".=C2=A0 Aren&= #39;t these semantics
**** NECESSSARY in order to provide the L3VPN service?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRv6 VPN SID MAY be routable within the AS of the egress-P= E and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 serves the dual purpose of providing reachability between ingr= ess-PE
=C2=A0=C2=A0 and egress-PE while also encoding the VPN identifier.

**** Did you mean:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRv6 VPN SID MAY be routable all along the path from the i= ngress-PE
=C2=A0=C2=A0 to the egress-PE, and if so, MAY serve the dual purpose of pro= viding
=C2=A0=C2=A0 reachability between ingress-PE and egress-PE while also encod= ing the VPN
=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier.

**** Though I guess if the SID is routable only in the egress AS, one could=
**** tunnel to an entry point of that AS and then route within the AS based=
**** on the SID.=C2=A0 (Of course this amplifies the spoofing problem discu= ssed
**** in Section 8.2 of RFC 4023.)

**** So there are a number of options:
**** - not routable
**** - globally routable
**** - routable only within egress AS

**** If the intention is to allow all those options, please explain the
**** signaling that lets the ingress PE know which option to use.=C2=A0 Or = is the
**** intention that this is known a priori (i.e., via provisioning)?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 To support SRv6 based L3VPN overlay, a SID is advertised with = BGP
=C2=A0=C2=A0 MPLS L3VPN route update[RFC4364].=C2=A0 SID is encoded in a SR= v6-VPN SID
=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV, which is optional transitive BGP Prefix SID
=C2=A0=C2=A0 attribute[I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid].=C2=A0 This attrib= ute serves two
=C2=A0=C2=A0 purposes; first it indicates that the BGP egress device is rea= chable
=C2=A0=C2=A0 via an SRv6 underlay

**** Whether the egress PE is reachable via an SRv6 underlay has nothing to=
**** do with the presence or absence of the SRv6-VPN SID TLV.=C2=A0 The pre= sence
**** of that TLV really only means that the egress PE can handle the SRv6 **** encapsulation for L3VPN.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 and the BGP ingress device receiving this route
=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAY choose to encapsulate or insert an SRv6 SRH, second it ind= icates
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the value of the SID to include in the SRH encapsulation.=C2= =A0 For L3VPN,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY be necessary.

**** I don't understand the phrase "only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY= be
**** necessary".

=C2=A0=C2=A0 A BGP speaker supporting an SRv6 underlay MAY distribute SID p= er route
=C2=A0=C2=A0 via the BGP SRv6-VPN Attribute.

**** I think you mean "If a PE supports an SRv6 underlay, it may attac= h the
**** BGP SRv6-VPN attribute to the VPN-IP routes that it originates".<= br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the BGP speaker supports MPLS based
=C2=A0=C2=A0 L3VPN simultaneously, it MAY also populate the Label values in= L3VPN
=C2=A0=C2=A0 route types and allow the BGP ingress device to decide which =C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation to use.=C2=A0 If the BGP speaker does not suppor= t MPLS based
=C2=A0=C2=A0 L3VPN services the MPLS Labels in L3VPN route types MUST be se= t to
=C2=A0=C2=A0 IMPLICIT-NULL.

**** Please provide a reference that specifies how you set the Label field<= br> **** of a SAFI-4 or SAFI-128 route to "implicit null".=C2=A0 I do= n't recall any
**** such thing existing in RFC 3107, 4364, or 8277.

**** If you mean "set to zero", I think that will generally be in= terpreted
**** in a SAFI-4 or SAFI-128 route as "push on label 0 (explicit null)= ".

**** If you mean "set to three" (the value defined in RFC 3032 to= represent
**** "implicit null"), I don't think the SAFI-4/SAFI-128 impl= ementations
**** generally interpret the value three in that manner.

**** I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. There are a= t least
**** four cases to consider:

**** 1. For the case where the backbone doesn't have MPLS, there is no = harm
**** in saying "set the label to zero".

**** 2. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, and **** some PEs support L3VPN both ways, while others support only MPLS-based=
**** L3VPN, then a real label needs to be put in.

**** 3. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, but a<= br> **** particular egress PE only supports SRv6, there needs to be some way to=
**** instruct the ingress PEs to use SRv6 and not MPLS. Perhaps the
**** presence of the prefix-SID attribute with VPN-SID TLV is sufficient.
**** 4. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, the **** egress PE supports both for transit, but the egress PE only supports **** SRv6 for L3VPN, the label in the SAFI-1/SAFI-128 routes should be a **** value that will cause the egress PE to discard the packet.=C2=A0 If th= ere
**** happens to be an ingress PE that only supports the MPLS style of L3VPN= ,
**** this will prevent the egress PE from misrouting MPLS packets that
**** arrive from that ingress PE.=C2=A0 (This would be an odd, probably
**** transitional, deployment.=C2=A0 But the draft isn't very explicit = about just
**** what combinations of MPLS and SRv6 it is supposed to support.)

**** In any event, the draft would be better off specifying the actual labe= l value
**** to be included rather than saying "implicit null". This occu= rs several
**** times in the draft.

Section 3.1

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 SRv6-VPN SID is encoded as part of the SRv6-VPN SID TLV define= d in
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 2.=C2=A0 The function of the SRv6 SID is entirely up t= o the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 originator of the advertisement.=C2=A0 In practice, the functi= on may
=C2=A0=C2=A0 likely be End.DX4 or End.DT4.

**** Obviously, the behavior is not up to the originator, it MUST provide **** the functionality necessary to provide the behavior that would have be= en
**** provided by the MPLS label(s).=C2=A0 Statements like this occur severa= l
**** times in the draft and should all be fixed.

Section 4

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ethernet VPN(EVPN), as defined in [RFC7432] provides an extend= able
=C2=A0=C2=A0 method of building an EVPN overlay.=C2=A0 It primarily focuses= on MPLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 based EVPNs but calls out the extensibility to IP based EVPN =C2=A0=C2=A0 overlays.=C2=A0 It defines 4 route-types which carry prefixes = and MPLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Label attributes, the Labels each have specific use for MPLS =C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation of EVPN traffic.=C2=A0 The fifth route-type carr= ying MPLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 label information (and thus encapsulation information) for EVP= N is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined in[I-D.ietf-bess-evpn-prefix-advertisement].

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Route Types discussed below are:

**** After carefully counting up to five route types, the document then pro= ceeds to identify eight route types ;-)

**** And there are lots more on the way!

Section 4.1.1

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 SRv6-VPN TLV MAY be advertised along with the route advertisem= ent and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the behavior of the SRv6-VPN SID is entirely up to the origina= tor of
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the advertisement.=C2=A0 In practice, the behavior would likel= y be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Arg.FE2.

**** This seems to require that a unique IPv6 address be assigned to each **** ES.=C2=A0 Is that the intention?=C2=A0 If so, then probably those addr= esses
**** should not be routable.

...

Section 4.3

...

=C2=A0=C2=A0 An Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag route type specific EVPN N= LRI
=C2=A0=C2=A0 consists of the following [RFC7432] where:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 BGP next-hop: IPv6 address of egress PE

**** I don't think there is any reason for this document to specify the=
**** contents of the NH field of the IMET route.=C2=A0 The above doesn'= t make
**** much sense anyway, as the term "egress PE" doesn't reall= y make sense in
**** the context of the IMET route, and the next hop can change as the rout= e
**** is propagated.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 SRv6-VPN TLV MAY encode END.DX2/END.DT2M function.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 BGP Attribute: PMSI Tunnel Attribute[RFC6514] MAY cont= ain MPLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 implicit-null label and Tunnel Type would be= similar to defined in
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 EVPN Type-6 i.e. Ingress replication route.<= br>
**** Is the intention to prohibit the use of either P2MP tunnels or assiste= d
**** replication in an SRv6 overlay?=C2=A0 That seems to be a consequence o= f the
**** above.=C2=A0 If that's the intention, please say so explicitly and= do not
**** leave it as an inference.=C2=A0 If that's not the intention, then = do not say
**** what the tunnel type should be.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The format of PMSI Tunnel Attribute attribute is encoded as fo= llows
=C2=A0=C2=A0 for an SRv6 Core:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Flag (1 octet)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Tunnel Type (1 octet)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 MPLS label (3 octet)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Tunnel Identifier (variable)=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+<= br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Flag: zero value defined per [RFC7432]

**** The EVPN specs (of which RFC 7432 is not the only one) use five or six=
**** of the PMSI tunnel attribute flags.=C2=A0 This spec should not say to = set
**** the flags to zero, unless it is meant to prohibit the use of any
**** function requiring the flags.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Tunnel Type: defined per [RFC6514]

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 MPLS label: Implicit-Null

**** MPLS label should be zero; in the PMSI Tunnel attribute, it is clear **** that zero means "no label is specified".

=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Tunnel Identifier: IP address of egress PE

**** This makes no sense when P2MP tunnels are used.

**** For IR, the tunnel identifier is the identifier of the PE originating<= br> **** the route, per RFC 7432 section 11.2.

**** Note that this will require that a unique IPv6 address be assigned to<= br> **** each Broadcast Domain; that should be stated explicitly.

**** In a draft entitled " BGP Signaling of IPv6-Segment-Routing-based= VPN
**** Networks", it would be nice if the following little details were<= br> **** mentioned explicitly:

**** - In L3VPN, an IPv6 address must be assigned to each VRF (or to each ****=C2=A0=C2=A0 VRF interface)

**** - In EVPN, an IPv6 address must be assigned to each ES.

**** - In EVPN, an IPv6 address must be assigned to each BD.

**** It would also be nice if multicast were covered in both MVPN and EVPN.=

...

6.=C2=A0 Implementation Status

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRv6-VPN is available for SRv6 on various Cisco hardware a= nd
=C2=A0=C2=A0 other software platforms.

**** Does it provide the full set of L3VPN/EVPN features? If not,
**** what subset of features are supported?=C2=A0 Does it support
**** transitional scenarios without relying on non-standard
**** behaviors?

...

7.=C2=A0 Error Handling of BGP SRv6 SID Updates

=C2=A0=C2=A0 When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0 malformed SRv6-VPN SID TLV, it MUST ignore the received BGP =C2=A0=C2=A0 attributes and not pass it to other BGP peers.=C2=A0 This is e= quivalent to
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the -attribute discard- action specified in [RFC7606].=C2=A0 W= hen
=C2=A0=C2=A0 discarding an attribute, a BGP speaker MAY log an error for fu= rther
=C2=A0=C2=A0 analysis.

**** If the attribute is discarded, and there is no label (or the backbone)=
**** doesn't support MPLS, what will happen to the VPN traffic? Can it = be
**** misdelivered outside the VPN?=C2=A0 That wouldn't be very good.






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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:11:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D52FA870FCE27031BBD77FF7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 12/28/2017 12:14 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Eric, > > A lot of your comments are an indication that you treat SID to be IPv6 > address fully responsible for demux to proper VRF or CE. This was > never the intention. > > Imagine egress PE having /64 loopback. Then you have remaining 64 bits > to put there a 20 bit VPN label (as we know it :) and even much more > then that. You can attach new arbitrary new functions to this single > "VPN SID". > > And further notice that this has no bearing on SID being routable or > not. Only the first /64 bits of the dst address need to be routable in > order for forwarding packets to happen ... So by no means there should > be a case to have per vrf IPv6 address or per CE IPv6 address and make > it fully /128 routable. I'm not sure what you mean by "fully /128 routable".  If there is a route for a /64 prefix, then a /128 that begins with that prefix is routable. I'm not sure what you mean by saying it is "not the intention for the IPv6 address to be fully responsible for demux to proper VRF or CE".  If the IPv6 adress contains the "VPN label" in its low-order part, then the IPv6 address is used for the demux.  The VPN label is part of the IPv6 address, no? I'm not sure which comments you consider to be invalid. --------------D52FA870FCE27031BBD77FF7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 12/28/2017 12:14 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
Hi Eric,

A lot of your comments are an indication that you treat SID to be IPv6 address fully responsible for demux to proper VRF or CE. This was never the intention. 

Imagine egress PE having /64 loopback. Then you have remaining 64 bits to put there a 20 bit VPN label (as we know it :) and even much more then that. You can attach new arbitrary new functions to this single "VPN SID". 

And further notice that this has no bearing on SID being routable or not. Only the first /64 bits of the dst address need to be routable in order for forwarding packets to happen ... So by no means there should be a case to have per vrf IPv6 address or per CE IPv6 address and make it fully /128 routable.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fully /128 routable".  If there is a route for a /64 prefix, then a /128 that begins with that prefix is routable.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying it is "not the intention for the IPv6 address to be fully responsible for demux to proper VRF or CE".  If the IPv6 adress contains the "VPN label" in its low-order part, then the IPv6 address is used for the demux.  The VPN label is part of the IPv6 address, no?

I'm not sure which comments you consider to be invalid.



--------------D52FA870FCE27031BBD77FF7-- From nobody Thu Dec 28 10:55:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1681C126D73; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:55:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NRMKrGPwIPWh; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3A32126C89; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:55:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id t8so45245907wmc.3; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:55:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=fznLT/3gOsAVzAwJ1ly2JWjO8AVXUzskIRM9+k6JSPc=; b=nlTQ6x5s3gRnKplZ4W/4mE35NrV6F5rO9akwiaV0uhjkl7EzD4PspEU8yekC/Qh4+4 1BWGTE0IjnPWMyOacgz3Y2bCOYUeuaNDDKcfidkWBTlYkkXffc3vcI1/c91CU3IFm8IU HzG3CnW+XNHLswFnqsiNqhb/dT1iJJ1b6SBkaSpY9ilyEJXsD9Rv928vEf6O/T4euJaz YC+zBwHo/CgXV29clSrYFcrnmcdKdnqK795AYg/GQ1YdPvvchHn2YEVurW+t3eweqCqv 4C8CQOP00JxtqM3whL9vXhp5lzoUbjrgSpbrCUFazjr44oW+NQ6e9030kfBUu8azZV6S WcAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fznLT/3gOsAVzAwJ1ly2JWjO8AVXUzskIRM9+k6JSPc=; b=VGGQcwSyHd6WNLgn0cWdxYxpA4NkyXq0qNPCl24eIYYna3lFdyHbnFWtxWoZ+arbSR i23TnPxxQY4qbYHSwP1sYMW/KeyNXqvdbawuHCk5SQ33LOiwl+8/RCqsvT403R9ZbQYn MCxvyMenKGfC02p3lsCfKyyurTOvmSyVh8ep8r/R+GyxrbFe5Kh5EKJ0Q6j7mlSeDpZc Bfb/eFyYUCb3UNJhA5VUl6yK3bQg8htWjyWmWFOyFPZmnKlzMcI4Ed5uNb+xoq8uU7ag j2SK5jpI4VBQL3/a4Juc0JVbhBOUTCnsS0oBgvuv10gDImCYTxnUrsbuU8ivaAC/Z9Vy N6jw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ2tzfn08rM6LrkPP31f0o/vQi8//VrsUHXUIxW04U8Km4Ir1Pt fl+HQ9MX8MQXEokjPrjjT6GwGcEU+ioMDUV2rm0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovkLJ6v1HC3WIs3Gsc/QclVlcFFPqpdhbLQ8eeLVWgMTDK5XFy8Mx01QTMVw/j/vlNtoV9JGOWtSjrND0UGHDk= X-Received: by 10.28.136.15 with SMTP id k15mr25590227wmd.147.1514487318062; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:55:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.54.217 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:55:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 19:55:17 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: pbCSth6XFYbkpuyr5sKlljDcjmM Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: "bess@ietf.org" , draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn.authors@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144242a9c373305616b0ed5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Comments on draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:55:23 -0000 --001a1144242a9c373305616b0ed5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok let's start all over :) **** This suggests that an IPv6 address has to be assigned to each VRF (for > **** per-VRF "labeling"), or even to each CE (for per-CE labeling). > =E2=80=8BNo one suggests that. VPN SID is not IPv6 address .. it is part of= v6 SID which when appended to IPv6 prefix forms a complete SRv6 SID. Semantics does matter here. =E2=80=8B **** If those addresses are routable, doesn't this create a security issue > **** as discussed in RFC 4023 Section 8.2? > =E2=80=8BPE's loopback address say /64 being routable causes any security r= isk ? =E2=80=8B **** The phrase "only has local significance" suggests that these SIDs are > **** not routable. But later on there is a suggestion that they are > **** routable, or at least that they might be. > =E2=80=8BAgain SIDs are not routable and they have only local significance = - true. =E2=80=8BThey are prepended to say loopback address to form IPv6 SID. **** So there are a number of options: > **** - not routable > **** - globally routable > **** - routable only within egress AS > =E2=80=8BThis is referring to routability of SID ... not right. SID does no= t need to be routable. What prefix they are part of may be routable. =E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B > and the BGP ingress device receiving this route > MAY choose to encapsulate or insert an SRv6 SRH, second it indicates > the value of the SID to include in the SRH encapsulation. For L3VPN, > only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY be necessary. > > **** I don't understand the phrase "only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY be > **** necessary". > =E2=80=8BAnalogy to basic L3VPN when you have VPN label and underlay LDP la= bel. =E2=80=8B If the BGP speaker supports MPLS based > L3VPN simultaneously, it MAY also populate the Label values in L3VPN > route types and allow the BGP ingress device to decide which > encapsulation to use. If the BGP speaker does not support MPLS based > L3VPN services the MPLS Labels in L3VPN route types MUST be set to > IMPLICIT-NULL. > > **** Please provide a reference that specifies how you set the Label fiel= d > **** of a SAFI-4 or SAFI-128 route to "implicit null". I don't recall an= y > **** such thing existing in RFC 3107, 4364, or 8277. > =E2=80=8B4364 does not restrict what value of VPN label is used - does it ?= I think this draft now right here defines =E2=80=8Bhow to read implicit-null being = placed there :) It's not my idea though - so I will let real inventors to comment on it more. > **** If you mean "set to three" (the value defined in RFC 3032 to represe= nt > **** "implicit null"), I don't think the SAFI-4/SAFI-128 implementations > **** generally interpret the value three in that manner. > =E2=80=8BAs mentioned I think it just is being defined here and now. =E2=80= =8B > **** I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. There are at leas= t > **** four cases to consider: > > **** 1. For the case where the backbone doesn't have MPLS, there is no ha= rm > **** in saying "set the label to zero". > =E2=80=8BReally ? =E2=80=8BWhat does the backbone having or not having MPLS= has to do with this ? Underlay forwarding does not matter and this is what I read as "backbone". **** 2. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, and > **** some PEs support L3VPN both ways, while others support only MPLS-bas= ed > **** L3VPN, then a real label needs to be put in. > =E2=80=8BOK.=E2=80=8B > **** 3. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, but = a > **** particular egress PE only supports SRv6, there needs to be some way = to > **** instruct the ingress PEs to use SRv6 and not MPLS. Perhaps the > **** presence of the prefix-SID attribute with VPN-SID TLV is sufficient. > =E2=80=8BPerhaps not ... and this is exactly =E2=80=8Bthe case trying to be= addressed. **** 4. For the case where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, the > **** egress PE supports both for transit, but the egress PE only supports > **** SRv6 for L3VPN, the label in the SAFI-1/SAFI-128 routes should be a > =E2=80=8BLabel in SAFI 1 ? =E2=80=8B > **** value that will cause the egress PE to discard the packet. If there > **** happens to be an ingress PE that only supports the MPLS style of > L3VPN, > **** this will prevent the egress PE from misrouting MPLS packets that > **** arrive from that ingress PE. (This would be an odd, probably > **** transitional, deployment. But the draft isn't very explicit about > just > **** what combinations of MPLS and SRv6 it is supposed to support.) > > **** In any event, the draft would be better off specifying the actual > label value > **** to be included rather than saying "implicit null". This occurs sever= al > **** times in the draft. > =E2=80=8B.. or to define a new special or reserved label =E2=80=8Bfor that = embedded signalling. Kind regards, R. --001a1144242a9c373305616b0ed5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok let's start all over :)=C2=A0

**** This suggests that an IPv6 address has to be assigned= to each VRF (for
**** per-VRF "labeling"), or even to each CE (for per-CE labeling= ).

=E2=80=8BNo one= suggests that. VPN SID is not IPv6 address .. it is part of v6 SID which w= hen appended to IPv6 prefix forms a complete SRv6 SID. Semantics does matte= r here. =E2=80=8B

**** If tho= se addresses are routable, doesn't this create a security issue
**** as discussed in RFC 4023 Section 8.2?

<= div>
=E2=80=8BPE's loopback address say /64 being rou= table causes any security risk ? =E2=80=8B

**** The phrase "only has local significance" sugge= sts that these SIDs are
**** not routable. But later on there is a suggestion that they are
**** routable, or at least that they might be.

=E2=80=8BAgain SIDs are not routable and they ha= ve only local significance - true. =E2=80=8BThey are prepended to say loopb= ack address to form IPv6 SID.=C2=A0

**** So there are a number of options:
**** - not routable
**** - globally routable
**** - routable only within egress AS

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BThis is referring to routability of SID ... not = right. SID does not need to be routable. What prefix they are part of may b= e routable. =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and the BGP ingress device receiving this r= oute
=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAY choose to encapsulate or insert an SRv6 SRH, second it ind= icates
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the value of the SID to include in the SRH encapsulation.=C2= =A0 For L3VPN,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY be necessary.

**** I don't understand the phrase "only a single SRv6-VPN SID MAY= be
**** necessary".

=E2=80=8BAnalogy to basic L3VPN when you have VPN label and underlay LDP = label. =E2=80=8B


=C2=A0 =C2=A0If the BGP speaker supports MPLS based
=C2=A0=C2=A0 L3VPN simultaneously, it MAY also populate the Label values in= L3VPN
=C2=A0=C2=A0 route types and allow the BGP ingress device to decide which =C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation to use.=C2=A0 If the BGP speaker does not suppor= t MPLS based
=C2=A0=C2=A0 L3VPN services the MPLS Labels in L3VPN route types MUST be se= t to
=C2=A0=C2=A0 IMPLICIT-NULL.

**** Please provide a reference that specifies how you set the Label field<= br> **** of a SAFI-4 or SAFI-128 route to "implicit null".=C2=A0 I do= n't recall any
**** such thing existing in RFC 3107, 4364, or 8277.
<= br>

=E2=80=8B4364 does not rest= rict what value of VPN label is used - does it ? I think this draft now rig= ht here defines =E2=80=8Bhow to read implicit-null being placed there :) It= 's not my idea though - so I will let real inventors to comment on it m= ore.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
*= *** If you mean "set to three" (the value defined in RFC 3032 to = represent
**** "implicit null"), I don't think the SAFI-4/SAFI-128 impl= ementations
**** generally interpret the value three in that manner.

=E2=80=8BAs mentioned I think it just = is being defined here and now. =E2=80=8B


**** I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. There are a= t least
**** four cases to consider:

**** 1. For the case where the backbone doesn't have MPLS, there is no = harm
**** in saying "set the label to zero".

=
=E2=80=8BReally ? =E2=80=8BWhat does the back= bone having or not having MPLS has to do with this ? Underlay forwarding do= es not matter and this is what I read as "backbone".=C2=A0
<= br>

**** 2. For the case= where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, and
**** some PEs support L3VPN both ways, while others support only MPLS-based=
**** L3VPN, then a real label needs to be put in.

=
=E2=80=8BOK.=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0<= br>
**** 3. For the case where the back= bone supports both MPLS and SRv6, but a
**** particular egress PE only supports SRv6, there needs to be some way to=
**** instruct the ingress PEs to use SRv6 and not MPLS. Perhaps the
**** presence of the prefix-SID attribute with VPN-SID TLV is sufficient.

=E2=80=8BPerhaps not = ... and this is exactly =E2=80=8Bthe case trying to be addressed.=C2=A0

**** 4. For the case = where the backbone supports both MPLS and SRv6, the
**** egress PE supports both for transit, but the egress PE only supports **** SRv6 for L3VPN, the label in the SAFI-1/SAFI-128 routes should be a

=E2=80=8BLabel in SAFI= 1 ? =E2=80=8B


=C2=A0
**** value that will cause the egress PE to discard the packet.=C2=A0 If th= ere
**** happens to be an ingress PE that only supports the MPLS style of L3VPN= ,
**** this will prevent the egress PE from misrouting MPLS packets that
**** arrive from that ingress PE.=C2=A0 (This would be an odd, probably
**** transitional, deployment.=C2=A0 But the draft isn't very explicit = about just
**** what combinations of MPLS and SRv6 it is supposed to support.)

**** In any event, the draft would be better off specifying the actual labe= l value
**** to be included rather than saying "implicit null". This occu= rs several
**** times in the draft.

=E2=80=8B.. or to define a new special or reserved label =E2=80=8Bfor = that embedded signalling.=C2=A0

Kind regards,
R.
--001a1144242a9c373305616b0ed5-- From nobody Thu Dec 28 12:29:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A474212D7E7; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:29:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151449294165.3102.10873696277978958399@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:29:01 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Stacked Tunnels for Source Routing \(STATUS\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 20:29:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Model for Segment Routing Authors : Stephane Litkowski Yingzhen Qu Pushpasis Sarkar Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2017-12-28 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model ([RFC6020], [RFC7950]) for segment routing ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing]) configuration and operation. This YANG model is intended to be used on network elements to configure or operate segment routing. This document defines also generic containers that SHOULD be reused by IGP protocol modules to support segment routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/