From henrik@levkowetz.com  Tue May  1 07:33:02 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.100 feedback: escaping issues
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Hi Роман,

Thank your for writing up the issues below, and my excuses for the large
delay in addressing this.  Your analysis, in addition to reporting the
bugs, was very helpful.

I'm about to release version 1.101, where I hope to have addressed both
of these issues.

Thank you again for reporting these issues.


Best regards,

	Henrik


On 2012-04-08 20:14 Роман Донченко said the following:
> Hello,
> 
> I found two problems related to escaping:
> 
> * In metadata, quotes are not escaped, yielding ill-formed markup. See, for
> example, DC.Description.Abstract in <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6454>.
> 
> I believe all you need to do to fix this is to change "cgi.escape(val)" to
> "cgi.escape(val, quote=True)" on line 719.
> 
> * The title attribute of the reference links, on the other hand, seems to  
> be escaped twice, for example, in <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6556>:
> 
> [<a href="./rfc5461" title='"TCP&amp;#39;s Reaction to Soft  
> Errors"'>RFC5461</a>]
> 
> Regards,
> Roman.
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 

From dpb@corrigendum.ru  Tue May  1 10:04:58 2012
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To: "Henrik Levkowetz" <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] rfcmarkup releases (Was: Rfcmarkup-1.100 feedback: escaping issues)
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Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB =D0=
=B2 =D1=81=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=91=D0=BC =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D1=8C=D0=BC=D0=B5 =
Tue, 01 May  =

2012 18:32:47 +0400:

> Hi =D0=A0=D0=BE=D0=BC=D0=B0=D0=BD,
>
> Thank your for writing up the issues below, and my excuses for the lar=
ge
> delay in addressing this.  Your analysis, in addition to reporting the=

> bugs, was very helpful.
>
> I'm about to release version 1.101, where I hope to have addressed bot=
h
> of these issues.
>
> Thank you again for reporting these issues.

No problem.

Speaking of releases... the day after I downloaded the 1.100 tarball I  =

went to the homepage (<http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/>) again, a=
nd  =

the download link seems to have disappeared... I don't remember where it=
  =

was, but I don't seem to find it anywhere. Plus, the page states the las=
t  =

version is 0.97. What's going on?

Roman.

From henrik@levkowetz.com  Tue May  1 17:03:41 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcmarkup releases (Was: Rfcmarkup-1.100 feedback: escaping issues)
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Hi Roman,

On 2012-05-01 19:04 Роман Донченко said the following:

> No problem.
> 
> Speaking of releases... the day after I downloaded the 1.100 tarball I  
> went to the homepage (<http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/>) again, and  
> the download link seems to have disappeared... I don't remember where it  
> was, but I don't seem to find it anywhere. Plus, the page states the last  
> version is 0.97. What's going on?

Two things.  The first is a dodgy Makefile, I think.  The download link
should always be generated when I '$ make upload', but it seems to disappear
sometimes.  I haven't had time to debug it, which is a shame, but that's the
way it is.  The second is that I sometimes do '$make upload' on the server
I'm working on at the time, instead of moving stuff to the distribution
master for the tools servers; that will result in one server having a
newer version.  This comes from working on the server which will become
the distribution server, rather than on the one which will be decommissioned
soon.

The pages should now all be in sync, and all show version 1.101.

Best regards,

	Henrik



From dhc@dcrocker.net  Tue May  8 08:27:28 2012
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] individual web pages to support public ietf tools and technologies?
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Howdy.

There are some IETF-based technologies and tools that are public-facing 
and go beyond internal IETF work.  xml2rfc might be an example.  abnf 
certainly is.

For technologies processed through the IETF, there is usually an outside 
community with a web page for all of the pre- and post-standards 
activities.  Documents, discussion, etc.

The trigger for this note is abnf.  It has no 'home' for tools, 
documents or the like but I suspect it should have one.

ABNF is so much a creature of the IETF community, I'm wondering whether 
it should have something like augmented-bnf.org, rather than (for 
example) augmented-bnf.org.

Thoughts?

d/
-- 
  Dave Crocker
  Brandenburg InternetWorking
  bbiw.net

From touch@isi.edu  Tue May  8 10:19:31 2012
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On 5/8/2012 8:27 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:
> Howdy.
>
> There are some IETF-based technologies and tools that are public-facing
> and go beyond internal IETF work. xml2rfc might be an example. abnf
> certainly is.
>
> For technologies processed through the IETF, there is usually an outside
> community with a web page for all of the pre- and post-standards
> activities. Documents, discussion, etc.
>
> The trigger for this note is abnf. It has no 'home' for tools, documents
> or the like but I suspect it should have one.
>
> ABNF is so much a creature of the IETF community, I'm wondering whether
> it should have something like augmented-bnf.org, rather than (for
> example) augmented-bnf.org.
>
> Thoughts?

There is an author tools page where some of the tools are linked - 
including my Word template, among other things.

Are you assuming more than that, i.e., a separate page per tool? 
Wouldn't that logically sit below the tools page?

Joe

From dhc@dcrocker.net  Tue May  8 10:23:00 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] individual web pages to support public ietf tools and technologies?
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On 5/8/2012 1:19 PM, Joe Touch wrote:
> There is an author tools page where some of the tools are linked -
> including my Word template, among other things.
>
> Are you assuming more than that, i.e., a separate page per tool?
> Wouldn't that logically sit below the tools page?


I am assuming more than that.

I'm classing the sort of thing you cited as "internal" to the IETF.  In 
contrast, ABNF is of utility outside the IETF.

That said, the model of a separate page per tool probably works for 
this, too.

However I don't seem to find a table with links to the existing such pages.

d/
-- 
  Dave Crocker
  Brandenburg InternetWorking
  bbiw.net

From touch@isi.edu  Tue May  8 10:28:47 2012
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Cc: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>, Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] individual web pages to support public ietf tools and technologies?
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On 5/8/2012 10:22 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:
>
> On 5/8/2012 1:19 PM, Joe Touch wrote:
>> There is an author tools page where some of the tools are linked -
>> including my Word template, among other things.
>>
>> Are you assuming more than that, i.e., a separate page per tool?
>> Wouldn't that logically sit below the tools page?
>
>
> I am assuming more than that.
>
> I'm classing the sort of thing you cited as "internal" to the IETF. In
> contrast, ABNF is of utility outside the IETF.
>
> That said, the model of a separate page per tool probably works for
> this, too.
>
> However I don't seem to find a table with links to the existing such pages.

The tools pages haven't been updated in a while AFAICT.

Regarding the need for a separate ABNF page - if on the tools site, 
that's easy (if someone does it). If not, then someone needs to step up 
and create this, no?

Joe

From dhc@dcrocker.net  Tue May  8 10:37:40 2012
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On 5/8/2012 1:28 PM, Joe Touch wrote:
>> However I don't seem to find a table with links to the existing such
>> pages.
...
> Regarding the need for a separate ABNF page - if on the tools site,
> that's easy (if someone does it). If not, then someone needs to step up
> and create this, no?


if someone wants to give me admin access to abnf.tools.ietf.org (or 
whatever the name should be) I'm glad to take that on.

d/


-- 
  Dave Crocker
  Brandenburg InternetWorking
  bbiw.net

From Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com  Wed May  9 14:33:09 2012
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I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team question.=0A=
=0A=
The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr.=0A=
=0A=
As a result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat capabil=
ity and a viewable realtime note taking capability.=0A=
=0A=
The two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows, or a j=
abber window and an etherpad window.=0A=
=0A=
Is that possible?  That is, an interim wg meeting could either have two jab=
ber windows, or have an etherpad as has been provided at the last few IETF =
meeting in addition to the usual wg jabber?=0A=
=0A=
--Sandy, sidr co-chair=

From glen@amsl.com  Wed May  9 15:17:56 2012
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Cc: sidr-chairs@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team question.
> The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr.
> As a result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat
> capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability.
> The two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows, or a
> jabber window and an etherpad window.
> Is that possible? That is, an interim wg meeting could either have two
> jabber windows, or have an etherpad as has been provided at the last few
> IETF meeting in addition to the usual wg jabber?
> --Sandy, sidr co-chair

Sandy -

When ietf-action is copied on another email, it generates a ticket and a
series of alerts, and every reply to the conversation generates additional
alerts in the action queue.

So I'm resending this message to your lists, and asking everyone to please use 
this thread rather than the previous one for replies, so that the ticketing
system doesn't explode.  :-)

I'm sure that anything is possible, but I do think that this is a discussion
for the tools team, and, possibly, others.

It's not really a "problem for AMS to fix", so I can't really do anything with
it in the ticketing system.  :-)

If the tools team has no ideas, please feel free to email me directly at:
glen@amsl.com and I will try to ask around and see who might know more about
this.

Sorry to be a problem, thank you so much for your understanding...

Glen
Glen Barney
IT Director
AMS (IETF Secretariat)


From stpeter@stpeter.im  Wed May  9 18:42:14 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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Hi Glen!

On 5/9/12 4:17 PM, Glen wrote:
> In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:
>> I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team question.
>> The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr.
>> As a result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat
>> capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability.
>> The two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows, or a
>> jabber window and an etherpad window.

Well, right now we already can do one jabber room and one etherpad,
because that's the default setup.l If we want two jabber rooms, we could
easily set up sidr-notes@jabber.ietf.org (for active taking of notes) in
addition to the standard sidr@jabber.ietf.org room. Or so it seems to me.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

From Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com  Thu May 10 10:38:25 2012
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:38:17 +0000
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Cc: "sidr-chairs@ietf.org" <sidr-chairs@ietf.org>, "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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Great!  So it looks do-able. =0A=
=0A=
I did not mean to ask for two jabber rooms AND an etherpad.  The point is t=
o have two input places, total.=0A=
=0A=
I was not sure the etherpad was going to be an ongoing standard feature, wh=
ich is why I asked.=0A=
=0A=
--Sandy=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: Peter Saint-Andre [stpeter@stpeter.im]=0A=
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:42 PM=0A=
To: Glen=0A=
Cc: Murphy, Sandra; sidr-chairs@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or ether=
pad - use this please=0A=
=0A=
Hi Glen!=0A=
=0A=
On 5/9/12 4:17 PM, Glen wrote:=0A=
> In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:=0A=
>> I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team question.=
=0A=
>> The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr.=0A=
>> As a result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat=0A=
>> capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability.=0A=
>> The two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows, or =
a=0A=
>> jabber window and an etherpad window.=0A=
=0A=
Well, right now we already can do one jabber room and one etherpad,=0A=
because that's the default setup.l If we want two jabber rooms, we could=0A=
easily set up sidr-notes@jabber.ietf.org (for active taking of notes) in=0A=
addition to the standard sidr@jabber.ietf.org room. Or so it seems to me.=
=0A=
=0A=
Peter=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
Peter Saint-Andre=0A=
https://stpeter.im/=0A=

From lars@netapp.com  Thu May 10 10:45:26 2012
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From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: suggestion for IRTF dashboard page
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:45:20 +0000
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] suggestion for IRTF dashboard page
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Hi,

I'm having the IRSG switch to the new datatracker for new IRTF-stream =
documents. (Instead of using trac tickets.)

One missing bit of functionality is that trac offered me ways to query =
for tickets, so I could understand which state the IRTF documents are =
in.

Could some sort of "IRTF dashboard" be added to the datatracker? =
Basically, a list of IRTF stream documents e.g. sorted by state?

Thanks,
Lars=

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Hello,

following up on that discussion, unless I am mistaken I do not see any 
way to manage the replaced-by status of drafts in the datatracker.
This applies both to drafts with a revision number greater or equal than 
01 and to newly adopted drafts.
If I am wrong I'd be glad if one of you could indicate me the way to
manage the replaced-by information via the tracker.
Otherwise, I think it would definitely be good if chairs could manage
this status via the tracker, and there seem to be some support for that.

Thanks
martin


Le 18/04/2012 16:18, ah@TR-Sys.de a écrit :
> RFC 6175 (WG Datatracker requirements) in Section 6.2 talks about...
>
> |  This will facilitate the Datatracker's ability to correctly
> |  capture "Replaces" information for WG drafts and "Replaced by"
> |  information for the individual submission I-Ds that are replaced
> |  by WG drafts.
>
> This is written in the context of pre-approval of WG drafts
> before submission (which so far seems not to be implemented
> in the Datatracker WG Chair user interface), but in the
> discussion on the draft for RFC 6175, IIRC it was clear that
> during approval of a WG -00 draft, a Chair needs to be able to
> supply the "Replaces" metadata -- or correct the preliminary
> guesses made by the system.  Somehow, this seems to have been
> lost during operation on the many change requests on the draft,
> but IMHO this requirement is implied in RFC 6175.
> It also has been discussed in the draft stage of RFC 6175 that
> the I-D upload tool should allow an I-D submitter to supply
> "replaces" metadata, without leading to manual processing
> of the submission by the Secretariat (as is the case for all
> metadata changes intended by the submitter); in the case of a
> WG draft adoption( WG -00 draft), the WG Chair UI then should
> allow to edit these metadata (if needed) before accepting the
> submission.
>
> I haven't a useful example at hands currently to exercise the
> procedure, but from a more detailed reading of RFC 6175, it looks
> like the desired functionality is seen in RFC 6175 part of WG Chair
> operation on the *individual* I-Ds being adopted, not on the
> 'draft-ietf-' ones.
>
> So could please someone with a pending draft adoption check whether
> they can enter the "replaced by" information for the individual I-D?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>    Alfred HÎnes.
>

From martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri May 11 04:02:17 2012
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:02:09 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Cc: "wgchairs@ietf.org" <wgchairs@ietf.org>, "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] handling "replaced-by" via the datatracker [Re: latest missing replaced-by information]
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great! Thanks.

-m

Le 11/05/2012 11:24, Adrian Farrel a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> This popped up at the IESG retreat and Robert agreed to put it on the Tools Team
> To Do list.
>
> Is this a good time to remind you all of the code sprint that takes place on the
> day before each IETF meeting? Come along and help make the features you want to
> use a reality.
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: iesg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Martin Vigoureux
>> Sent: 11 May 2012 09:49
>> To: wgchairs@ietf.org
>> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> Subject: handling "replaced-by" via the datatracker [Re: latest missing
> replaced-
>> by information]
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> following up on that discussion, unless I am mistaken I do not see any
>> way to manage the replaced-by status of drafts in the datatracker.
>> This applies both to drafts with a revision number greater or equal than
>> 01 and to newly adopted drafts.
>> If I am wrong I'd be glad if one of you could indicate me the way to
>> manage the replaced-by information via the tracker.
>> Otherwise, I think it would definitely be good if chairs could manage
>> this status via the tracker, and there seem to be some support for that.
>>
>> Thanks
>> martin
>>
>>
>> Le 18/04/2012 16:18, ah@TR-Sys.de a écrit :
>>> RFC 6175 (WG Datatracker requirements) in Section 6.2 talks about...
>>>
>>> |  This will facilitate the Datatracker's ability to correctly
>>> |  capture "Replaces" information for WG drafts and "Replaced by"
>>> |  information for the individual submission I-Ds that are replaced
>>> |  by WG drafts.
>>>
>>> This is written in the context of pre-approval of WG drafts
>>> before submission (which so far seems not to be implemented
>>> in the Datatracker WG Chair user interface), but in the
>>> discussion on the draft for RFC 6175, IIRC it was clear that
>>> during approval of a WG -00 draft, a Chair needs to be able to
>>> supply the "Replaces" metadata -- or correct the preliminary
>>> guesses made by the system.  Somehow, this seems to have been
>>> lost during operation on the many change requests on the draft,
>>> but IMHO this requirement is implied in RFC 6175.
>>> It also has been discussed in the draft stage of RFC 6175 that
>>> the I-D upload tool should allow an I-D submitter to supply
>>> "replaces" metadata, without leading to manual processing
>>> of the submission by the Secretariat (as is the case for all
>>> metadata changes intended by the submitter); in the case of a
>>> WG draft adoption( WG -00 draft), the WG Chair UI then should
>>> allow to edit these metadata (if needed) before accepting the
>>> submission.
>>>
>>> I haven't a useful example at hands currently to exercise the
>>> procedure, but from a more detailed reading of RFC 6175, it looks
>>> like the desired functionality is seen in RFC 6175 part of WG Chair
>>> operation on the *individual* I-Ds being adopted, not on the
>>> 'draft-ietf-' ones.
>>>
>>> So could please someone with a pending draft adoption check whether
>>> they can enter the "replaced by" information for the individual I-D?
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>     Alfred HÎnes.
>>>
>
>

From afarrel@juniper.net  Fri May 11 02:25:03 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] handling "replaced-by" via the datatracker [Re: latest missing	replaced-by information]
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Hi,

This popped up at the IESG retreat and Robert agreed to put it on the =
Tools Team
To Do list.

Is this a good time to remind you all of the code sprint that takes =
place on the
day before each IETF meeting? Come along and help make the features you =
want to
use a reality.

Cheers,
Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: iesg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
> Martin Vigoureux
> Sent: 11 May 2012 09:49
> To: wgchairs@ietf.org
> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
> Subject: handling "replaced-by" via the datatracker [Re: latest =
missing
replaced-
> by information]
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> following up on that discussion, unless I am mistaken I do not see any
> way to manage the replaced-by status of drafts in the datatracker.
> This applies both to drafts with a revision number greater or equal =
than
> 01 and to newly adopted drafts.
> If I am wrong I'd be glad if one of you could indicate me the way to
> manage the replaced-by information via the tracker.
> Otherwise, I think it would definitely be good if chairs could manage
> this status via the tracker, and there seem to be some support for =
that.
>=20
> Thanks
> martin
>=20
>=20
> Le 18/04/2012 16:18, ah@TR-Sys.de a =E9crit :
> > RFC 6175 (WG Datatracker requirements) in Section 6.2 talks about...
> >
> > |  This will facilitate the Datatracker's ability to correctly
> > |  capture "Replaces" information for WG drafts and "Replaced by"
> > |  information for the individual submission I-Ds that are replaced
> > |  by WG drafts.
> >
> > This is written in the context of pre-approval of WG drafts
> > before submission (which so far seems not to be implemented
> > in the Datatracker WG Chair user interface), but in the
> > discussion on the draft for RFC 6175, IIRC it was clear that
> > during approval of a WG -00 draft, a Chair needs to be able to
> > supply the "Replaces" metadata -- or correct the preliminary
> > guesses made by the system.  Somehow, this seems to have been
> > lost during operation on the many change requests on the draft,
> > but IMHO this requirement is implied in RFC 6175.
> > It also has been discussed in the draft stage of RFC 6175 that
> > the I-D upload tool should allow an I-D submitter to supply
> > "replaces" metadata, without leading to manual processing
> > of the submission by the Secretariat (as is the case for all
> > metadata changes intended by the submitter); in the case of a
> > WG draft adoption( WG -00 draft), the WG Chair UI then should
> > allow to edit these metadata (if needed) before accepting the
> > submission.
> >
> > I haven't a useful example at hands currently to exercise the
> > procedure, but from a more detailed reading of RFC 6175, it looks
> > like the desired functionality is seen in RFC 6175 part of WG Chair
> > operation on the *individual* I-Ds being adopted, not on the
> > 'draft-ietf-' ones.
> >
> > So could please someone with a pending draft adoption check whether
> > they can enter the "replaced by" information for the individual I-D?
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >    Alfred H=CEnes.
> >


From lars@netapp.com  Wed May 16 04:00:25 2012
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From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: forced to comment when changing ID state
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Hi,

when I change the state of an ID, e.g.,

=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/streams/draft-irtf-samrg-common-api/edit/stat=
e/

I am forced to enter a comment. That's a bit odd, because normally I =
have no comments here.

Even weirder, that comment then doesn't even show up in the "state =
history" on the bottom of the page or on the documents history page.

Can we make entering a comment here optional please?
Can we fix the bug so that if a comment is entered, it is not lost?

Thanks,
Lars=

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From lars@netapp.com  Wed May 16 04:02:24 2012
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From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] forced to comment when changing ID state
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Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:02:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] forced to comment when changing ID state
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Hi,

On May 16, 2012, at 12:59, Eggert, Lars wrote:
> Even weirder, that comment then doesn't even show up in the "state =
history" on the bottom of the page or on the documents history page.

correction: it does show up, but with the the wrong date (looks to be =
the date of the previous history item.)

For example, for =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/streams/draft-irtf-samrg-common-api/edit/stat=
e/, my comment should have a date of "2012-05-16 03:57" which is when I =
changed the state, and not "2012-01-27 00:00".

Lars=

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From cabo@tzi.org  Wed May 16 04:33:45 2012
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What is the best way to get an Etherpad for taking minutes in interim =
meetings?

Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten


From stpeter@stpeter.im  Wed May 16 05:21:57 2012
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On 5/16/12 5:33 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> What is the best way to get an Etherpad for taking minutes in interim meetings?

Etherpad is supposed to be always on for your use, e.g., at
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/core/minutes

However, right now there seems to be a server problem on
grenache.tools.ietf.org

Peter



From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie  Thu May 17 07:23:40 2012
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Hiya,

HOKEY posted a -07 update to [1] about 5 hours ago but
the tools page is still showing -06 (and ID-nits checks
that too), though -07 exists in the tracker. [2]

Normally, I've only seen this take a few minutes. I
do understand that we shouldn't expect this all to
be instant.

So, the reason for my mail: what is the reasonable
time to expect between posting an I-D and the tools
page being updated?

And who knows, maybe this is a sign of some other
issue with the servers or the draft.

Apologies in advance if this is fixed by the time
you read this:-) And thanks of course for all the
great work!

Thanks,
S.

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis/

From fred@cisco.com  Thu May 17 11:00:04 2012
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It's worse than that. Check

    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis

Version -09 was posted two days ago and is reflected in the data =
tracker, but the tools site still has -08, and my rsync mirror of the =
IETF site (which I ran manually a few moments go) still contains -08.

    rsync -uavz --delete www.ietf.org::internet-drafts  =
/Users/fred/draft


On May 17, 2012, at 7:23 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:

>=20
> Hiya,
>=20
> HOKEY posted a -07 update to [1] about 5 hours ago but
> the tools page is still showing -06 (and ID-nits checks
> that too), though -07 exists in the tracker. [2]
>=20
> Normally, I've only seen this take a few minutes. I
> do understand that we shouldn't expect this all to
> be instant.
>=20
> So, the reason for my mail: what is the reasonable
> time to expect between posting an I-D and the tools
> page being updated?
>=20
> And who knows, maybe this is a sign of some other
> issue with the servers or the draft.
>=20
> Apologies in advance if this is fixed by the time
> you read this:-) And thanks of course for all the
> great work!
>=20
> Thanks,
> S.
>=20
> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis
> [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis/
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [irsg] IRTF extensions to IRTF datatracker
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Hi,

thanks for the feedback!

I'm CC'ing the tools folks, since I don't know what the issue may be.

Lars

On May 18, 2012, at 12:31, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> Hi Lars,
>=20
> Joerg, Kevin and I tried it while having our
> monthly chat... No joy.
>=20
> Where's that Change stream state button hiding?
>=20
> I can imagine it might not work for me now
> since the tracker gives me an AD view, but Kevin
> and Joerg both tried to adopt a dtnrg I-D [1]
> and none of us can see the option.
>=20
> Ta,
> S.
>=20
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-dtnrg-bpq/
>=20
>=20
> On 05/10/2012 06:42 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> until now, we've been using trac tickets to manage the review and =
publication process for IRTF stream IDs.
>>=20
>> In the meantime, the IETF datatracker rewrite has progressed to a =
point where the IETF tracker now has support for IRTF stream documents. =
In the interest of having a uniform way of handling IDs, I think we =
should switch to the datatracker for new documents.
>>=20
>> (We'll finish those documents that are still in the trac system using =
trac. Those are dtnrg-prophet as well as the rrg-ilnp set.)
>>=20
>> Note that the datatracker allows you chairs to manage documents while =
they are still within your RG. I highly suggest you start doing this, so =
that it is easy for you (and me) to see what state the various documents =
are in.
>>=20
>> A great first exercise to get familiar with the datatracker (and to =
verify that your RG chair credentials are working) is:
>>=20
>> 1. go to https://datatracker.ietf.org/
>>=20
>> 2. log in
>>=20
>> 3. search for an ID that is an active RG item in your RG
>>=20
>> 4. click "Change stream state"
>>=20
>> 5. change the stream state as appropriate (most likely, to "active RG =
document")
>>=20
>> Repeat 3-5 for all RG documents.
>>=20
>> Email the IRSG list if there are issues (since we're all figuring =
this out together.)
>>=20
>> Lars


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From henrik@levkowetz.com  Mon May 21 06:19:53 2012
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Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] oddity, tools page not updating for 5+ hours - what's reasonable?
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Hi Stephen, Fred,

There was an issue with the rsync server on www.ietf.org, which has
now been resolved.

Thanks for the alert.

With respect to Stephen's question (below) of the reasonable time
to expect between posting an I-D and the tools page being updated,
the answer is that going to the html copy of an explicit (new) version
can be expected to work in at most 3 minutes from posting.  Earlier
versions can be expected to show the new version in the list of
versions in the header within 1 hour at the most.  If not, an email
to webmaster@tools.ietf.org would be much appreciated.

Best regards,

	Henrik

On 2012-05-17 19:58 Fred Baker said:
> It's worse than that. Check
> 
>     http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
> 
> Version -09 was posted two days ago and is reflected in the data tracker, but the tools site still has -08, and my rsync mirror of the IETF site (which I ran manually a few moments go) still contains -08.
> 
>     rsync -uavz --delete www.ietf.org::internet-drafts  /Users/fred/draft
> 
> 
> On May 17, 2012, at 7:23 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> 
>>
>> Hiya,
>>
>> HOKEY posted a -07 update to [1] about 5 hours ago but
>> the tools page is still showing -06 (and ID-nits checks
>> that too), though -07 exists in the tracker. [2]
>>
>> Normally, I've only seen this take a few minutes. I
>> do understand that we shouldn't expect this all to
>> be instant.
>>
>> So, the reason for my mail: what is the reasonable
>> time to expect between posting an I-D and the tools
>> page being updated?
>>
>> And who knows, maybe this is a sign of some other
>> issue with the servers or the draft.
>>
>> Apologies in advance if this is fixed by the time
>> you read this:-) And thanks of course for all the
>> great work!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> S.
>>
>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis
>> [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 

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Hi Carsten,

On 2012-05-16 13:33 Carsten Bormann said:
> What is the best way to get an Etherpad for taking minutes in interim m=
eetings?

I don't have a general solution for that in place, but can always point
to one on request.  In this case, I would have said

  http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-core-1

but I guess that's too late now, so for the next one at least you can use=


  http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-core-2

Best regards,

	Henrik


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From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie  Mon May 21 06:50:00 2012
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Cc: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>, "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] oddity, tools page not updating for 5+ hours - what's reasonable?
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Hi Henrik,

On 05/21/2012 02:19 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Stephen, Fred,
> 
> There was an issue with the rsync server on www.ietf.org, which has
> now been resolved.
> 
> Thanks for the alert.
> 
> With respect to Stephen's question (below) of the reasonable time
> to expect between posting an I-D and the tools page being updated,
> the answer is that going to the html copy of an explicit (new) version
> can be expected to work in at most 3 minutes from posting.  Earlier
> versions can be expected to show the new version in the list of
> versions in the header within 1 hour at the most.  If not, an email
> to webmaster@tools.ietf.org would be much appreciated.

Thanks for that.
S.


> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 	Henrik
> 
> On 2012-05-17 19:58 Fred Baker said:
>> It's worse than that. Check
>>
>>     http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
>>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
>>
>> Version -09 was posted two days ago and is reflected in the data tracker, but the tools site still has -08, and my rsync mirror of the IETF site (which I ran manually a few moments go) still contains -08.
>>
>>     rsync -uavz --delete www.ietf.org::internet-drafts  /Users/fred/draft
>>
>>
>> On May 17, 2012, at 7:23 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hiya,
>>>
>>> HOKEY posted a -07 update to [1] about 5 hours ago but
>>> the tools page is still showing -06 (and ID-nits checks
>>> that too), though -07 exists in the tracker. [2]
>>>
>>> Normally, I've only seen this take a few minutes. I
>>> do understand that we shouldn't expect this all to
>>> be instant.
>>>
>>> So, the reason for my mail: what is the reasonable
>>> time to expect between posting an I-D and the tools
>>> page being updated?
>>>
>>> And who knows, maybe this is a sign of some other
>>> issue with the servers or the draft.
>>>
>>> Apologies in advance if this is fixed by the time
>>> you read this:-) And thanks of course for all the
>>> great work!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> S.
>>>
>>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis
>>> [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
> 
> 

From cabo@tzi.org  Mon May 21 08:12:44 2012
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On May 21, 2012, at 15:36, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> but I guess that's too late now, so for the next one at least you can =
use
>=20
>  http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-core-2

Thanks, will do that.

One potential consideration though.
Note-takers in interims (i.e., outside an IETF meeting) are often =
participating from heavily firewalled places, so the port 9001 might =
create problems.

Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten


From fred@cisco.com  Mon May 21 23:35:27 2012
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Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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THanks

On May 21, 2012, at 6:19 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> Hi Stephen, Fred,
>=20
> There was an issue with the rsync server on www.ietf.org, which has
> now been resolved.
>=20
> Thanks for the alert.
>=20
> With respect to Stephen's question (below) of the reasonable time
> to expect between posting an I-D and the tools page being updated,
> the answer is that going to the html copy of an explicit (new) version
> can be expected to work in at most 3 minutes from posting.  Earlier
> versions can be expected to show the new version in the list of
> versions in the header within 1 hour at the most.  If not, an email
> to webmaster@tools.ietf.org would be much appreciated.
>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> 	Henrik
>=20
> On 2012-05-17 19:58 Fred Baker said:
>> It's worse than that. Check
>>=20
>>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
>>    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-6204bis
>>=20
>> Version -09 was posted two days ago and is reflected in the data =
tracker, but the tools site still has -08, and my rsync mirror of the =
IETF site (which I ran manually a few moments go) still contains -08.
>>=20
>>    rsync -uavz --delete www.ietf.org::internet-drafts  =
/Users/fred/draft
>>=20
>>=20
>> On May 17, 2012, at 7:23 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Hiya,
>>>=20
>>> HOKEY posted a -07 update to [1] about 5 hours ago but
>>> the tools page is still showing -06 (and ID-nits checks
>>> that too), though -07 exists in the tracker. [2]
>>>=20
>>> Normally, I've only seen this take a few minutes. I
>>> do understand that we shouldn't expect this all to
>>> be instant.
>>>=20
>>> So, the reason for my mail: what is the reasonable
>>> time to expect between posting an I-D and the tools
>>> page being updated?
>>>=20
>>> And who knows, maybe this is a sign of some other
>>> issue with the servers or the draft.
>>>=20
>>> Apologies in advance if this is fixed by the time
>>> you read this:-) And thanks of course for all the
>>> great work!
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> S.
>>>=20
>>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis
>>> [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>=20


From morrowc@ops-netman.net  Thu May 24 08:41:28 2012
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] There was a note about etherpad an outage?
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did that get resolved? I don't see etherpad being up on:
  <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes>

(or was it somewhere else and I just missed it?)

From henrik@levkowetz.com  Fri May 25 02:44:24 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] There was a note about etherpad an outage?
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On 2012-05-24 17:41 Chris Morrow said:
> did that get resolved? I don't see etherpad being up on:
>   <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes>
> 
> (or was it somewhere else and I just missed it?)

That is the URL where the etherpad showed, but as soon as the
meeting minutes have been posted, the etherpad window goes
away.

This seems sufficiently unintuitive that I'll change that for
the next meeting, I expect.


Best regards,

	Henrik

From morrowc@ops-netman.net  Fri May 25 07:24:29 2012
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On 05/25/2012 05:44 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2012-05-24 17:41 Chris Morrow said:
>> did that get resolved? I don't see etherpad being up on:
>>   <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes>
>>
>> (or was it somewhere else and I just missed it?)
> 
> That is the URL where the etherpad showed, but as soon as the
> meeting minutes have been posted, the etherpad window goes
> away.
> 
> This seems sufficiently unintuitive that I'll change that for
> the next meeting, I expect.

great! my follow-up question is probably best stated as: "Where can I
get another token?" we have an interim meeting coming up (6/6) and would
like to utilize etherpad for that as well.

I can probably spin my own somewhere, but... the tools provided one was
very nice :)

From sm@resistor.net  Fri May 25 07:52:30 2012
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Incorrect revision number of draft for tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/
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Hello,

tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/ displays revision "07" for 
draft-ietf-spfbis-experiment.  The current version of the draft is 
draft-ietf-spfbis-experiment-09.

tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/draft-ietf-spfbis-experiment/ doesn't list 
versions -08 and -09 of the draft.

Regards,
-sm


From Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com  Fri May 25 09:18:23 2012
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To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, Glen <glen@amsl.com>
Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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Tools team, the sidr wg chairs are going to be counting on certain features=
 for the 6 Jun interim: the existence of the usual jabber room and one ethe=
rpad, with a fall back position: two jabber rooms, sidr + someothername.=0A=
=0A=
It looks from the below that this is possible, but I'd really like to get a=
 fervent unequivocal YES!, with details of how to get to those things that =
are not the ordinary tools (second jabber room, etherpad).=0A=
=0A=
If this is not doable or there's no fervent unequivocal YES!, we'll explore=
 other choices (other jabber servers, public etherpad, etc).  But would pre=
fer to keep it in the ietf house.=0A=
=0A=
OK?=0A=
=0A=
--Sandy, sidr co-chair=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: Murphy, Sandra [Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com]=0A=
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:38 PM=0A=
To: Peter Saint-Andre; Glen=0A=
Cc: sidr-chairs@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: RE: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or ether=
pad - use this please=0A=
=0A=
Great!  So it looks do-able.=0A=
=0A=
I did not mean to ask for two jabber rooms AND an etherpad.  The point is t=
o have two input places, total.=0A=
=0A=
I was not sure the etherpad was going to be an ongoing standard feature, wh=
ich is why I asked.=0A=
=0A=
--Sandy=0A=
=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: Peter Saint-Andre [stpeter@stpeter.im]=0A=
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:42 PM=0A=
To: Glen=0A=
Cc: Murphy, Sandra; sidr-chairs@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or ether=
pad - use this please=0A=
=0A=
Hi Glen!=0A=
=0A=
On 5/9/12 4:17 PM, Glen wrote:=0A=
> In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:=0A=
>> I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team question.=
=0A=
>> The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr.=0A=
>> As a result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat=0A=
>> capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability.=0A=
>> The two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows, or =
a=0A=
>> jabber window and an etherpad window.=0A=
=0A=
Well, right now we already can do one jabber room and one etherpad,=0A=
because that's the default setup.l If we want two jabber rooms, we could=0A=
easily set up sidr-notes@jabber.ietf.org (for active taking of notes) in=0A=
addition to the standard sidr@jabber.ietf.org room. Or so it seems to me.=
=0A=
=0A=
Peter=0A=
=0A=
--=0A=
Peter Saint-Andre=0A=
https://stpeter.im/=0A=

From stpeter@stpeter.im  Fri May 25 09:27:25 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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Because I have administrative privileges on the jabber chatroom service
(jabber.ietf.org), I am able to create a second room for you (and I just
tested that by creating sidr2@jabber.ietf.org - if you want a room with
a different name, let me know). However, I cannot help with etherpad
because my powers are limited to jabber. :)

On 5/25/12 10:18 AM, Murphy, Sandra wrote:
> Tools team, the sidr wg chairs are going to be counting on certain
> features for the 6 Jun interim: the existence of the usual jabber
> room and one etherpad, with a fall back position: two jabber rooms,
> sidr + someothername.
> 
> It looks from the below that this is possible, but I'd really like to
> get a fervent unequivocal YES!, with details of how to get to those
> things that are not the ordinary tools (second jabber room,
> etherpad).
> 
> If this is not doable or there's no fervent unequivocal YES!, we'll
> explore other choices (other jabber servers, public etherpad, etc).
> But would prefer to keep it in the ietf house.
> 
> OK?
> 
> --Sandy, sidr co-chair ________________________________________ From:
> Murphy, Sandra [Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10,
> 2012 1:38 PM To: Peter Saint-Andre; Glen Cc: sidr-chairs@ietf.org;
> tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Tools-discuss] query about
> support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
> 
> Great!  So it looks do-able.
> 
> I did not mean to ask for two jabber rooms AND an etherpad.  The
> point is to have two input places, total.
> 
> I was not sure the etherpad was going to be an ongoing standard
> feature, which is why I asked.
> 
> --Sandy
> 
> ________________________________________ From: Peter Saint-Andre
> [stpeter@stpeter.im] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:42 PM To: Glen 
> Cc: Murphy, Sandra; sidr-chairs@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org 
> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or
> etherpad - use this please
> 
> Hi Glen!
> 
> On 5/9/12 4:17 PM, Glen wrote:
>> In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:
>>> I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team
>>> question. The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr. As a
>>> result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat 
>>> capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability. The
>>> two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows,
>>> or a jabber window and an etherpad window.
> 
> Well, right now we already can do one jabber room and one etherpad, 
> because that's the default setup.l If we want two jabber rooms, we
> could easily set up sidr-notes@jabber.ietf.org (for active taking of
> notes) in addition to the standard sidr@jabber.ietf.org room. Or so
> it seems to me.
> 
> Peter
> 
> -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/

From glen@amsl.com  Fri May 25 09:56:37 2012
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From: Glen <glen@amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 09:56:31 -0700
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
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Peter

Thank you so much for taking care of that for us! You're the best!

Glen


Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote:

Because I have administrative privileges on the jabber chatroom service
(jabber.ietf.org), I am able to create a second room for you (and I just
tested that by creating sidr2@jabber.ietf.org - if you want a room with
a different name, let me know). However, I cannot help with etherpad
because my powers are limited to jabber. :)

On 5/25/12 10:18 AM, Murphy, Sandra wrote:
> Tools team, the sidr wg chairs are going to be counting on certain
> features for the 6 Jun interim: the existence of the usual jabber
> room and one etherpad, with a fall back position: two jabber rooms,
> sidr + someothername.
> 
> It looks from the below that this is possible, but I'd really like to
> get a fervent unequivocal YES!, with details of how to get to those
> things that are not the ordinary tools (second jabber room,
> etherpad).
> 
> If this is not doable or there's no fervent unequivocal YES!, we'll
> explore other choices (other jabber servers, public etherpad, etc).
> But would prefer to keep it in the ietf house.
> 
> OK?
> 
> --Sandy, sidr co-chair_____________________________________________
From:
> Murphy, Sandra [Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10,
> 2012 1:38 PM To: Peter Saint-Andre; Glen Cc: sidr-chairs@ietf.org;
> tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Tools-discuss] query about
> support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please
> 
> Great! So it looks do-able.
> 
> I did not mean to ask for two jabber rooms AND an etherpad. The
> point is to have two input places, total.
> 
> I was not sure the etherpad was going to be an ongoing standard
> feature, which is why I asked.
> 
> --Sandy
> 
>_____________________________________________
From: Peter Saint-Andre
> [stpeter@stpeter.im] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:42 PM To: Glen 
> Cc: Murphy, Sandra; sidr-chairs@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org 
> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or
> etherpad - use this please
> 
> Hi Glen!
> 
> On 5/9/12 4:17 PM, Glen wrote:
>> In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:
>>> I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team
>>> question. The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr. As a
>>> result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat 
>>> capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability. The
>>> two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows,
>>> or a jabber window and an etherpad window.
> 
> Well, right now we already can do one jabber room and one etherpad, 
> because that's the default setup.l If we want two jabber rooms, we
> could easily set up sidr-notes@jabber.ietf.org (for active taking of
> notes) in addition to the standard sidr@jabber.ietf.org room. Or so
> it seems to me.
> 
> Peter
> 
> -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/


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<html><head></head><body>Peter<br>
<br>
Thank you so much for taking care of that for us! You&#39;re the best!<br>
<br>
Glen<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Peter Saint-Andre &lt;stpeter@stpeter.im&gt; wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; word-wrap:break-word; font-family: monospace">Because I have administrative privileges on the jabber chatroom service<br />(<a href="http://jabber.ietf.org">jabber.ietf.org</a>), I am able to create a second room for you (and I just<br />tested that by creating sidr2@jabber.ietf.org - if you want a room with<br />a different name, let me know). However, I cannot help with etherpad<br />because my powers are limited to jabber. :)<br /><br />On 5/25/12 10:18 AM, Murphy, Sandra wrote:<br />&gt; Tools team, the sidr wg chairs are going to be counting on certain<br />&gt; features for the 6 Jun interim: the existence of the usual jabber<br />&gt; room and one etherpad, with a fall back position: two jabber rooms,<br />&gt; sidr + someothername.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; It looks from the below that this is possible, but I'd really like to<br />&gt; get a fervent unequivocal YES!, with details of how to get to those<br />&gt; things that are not the or
 dinary
tools (second jabber room,<br />&gt; etherpad).<br />&gt; <br />&gt; If this is not doable or there's no fervent unequivocal YES!, we'll<br />&gt; explore other choices (other jabber servers, public etherpad, etc).<br />&gt; But would prefer to keep it in the ietf house.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; OK?<br />&gt; <br />&gt; --Sandy, sidr co-chair<hr />From:<br />&gt; Murphy, Sandra [Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10,<br />&gt; 2012 1:38 PM To: Peter Saint-Andre; Glen Cc: sidr-chairs@ietf.org;<br />&gt; tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Tools-discuss] query about<br />&gt; support - multiple jabber or etherpad - use this please<br />&gt; <br />&gt; Great!  So it looks do-able.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; I did not mean to ask for two jabber rooms AND an etherpad.  The<br />&gt; point is to have two input places, total.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; I was not sure the etherpad was going to be an ongoing standard<br />&gt; feature, which is why I asked.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; --Sandy<br
  />&gt;
<br />&gt;<hr />From: Peter Saint-Andre<br />&gt; [stpeter@stpeter.im] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:42 PM To: Glen <br />&gt; Cc: Murphy, Sandra; sidr-chairs@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org <br />&gt; Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] query about support - multiple jabber or<br />&gt; etherpad - use this please<br />&gt; <br />&gt; Hi Glen!<br />&gt; <br />&gt; On 5/9/12 4:17 PM, Glen wrote:<br />&gt;&gt; In an email to IETF-ACTION and TOOLS-DISCUSS, Sandra Murphy wrote:<br />&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm not sure if this is a secretariat question or a tools team<br />&gt;&gt;&gt; question. The sidr wg had an interim meeting on 30 Apr. As a<br />&gt;&gt;&gt; result of the experience, there's a desire to have both a chat <br />&gt;&gt;&gt; capability and a viewable realtime note taking capability. The<br />&gt;&gt;&gt; two capabilities might be provided by having two jabber windows,<br />&gt;&gt;&gt; or a jabber window and an etherpad window.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; Well, right now we already 
 can do
one jabber room and one etherpad, <br />&gt; because that's the default setup.l If we want two jabber rooms, we<br />&gt; could easily set up sidr-notes@jabber.ietf.org (for active taking of<br />&gt; notes) in addition to the standard sidr@jabber.ietf.org room. Or so<br />&gt; it seems to me.<br />&gt; <br />&gt; Peter<br />&gt; <br />&gt; -- Peter Saint-Andre <a href="https://stpeter.im">https://stpeter.im</a>/<br /><br /></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
------GWDG7PSJXTKF8OBKR6QD2KFXI5SOSO--


From henrik@levkowetz.com  Mon May 28 02:42:26 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] There was a note about etherpad an outage?
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Hi Chris,

On 2012-05-25 16:24 Chris Morrow said:

> great! my follow-up question is probably best stated as: "Where can I
> get another token?" we have an interim meeting coming up (6/6) and would
> like to utilize etherpad for that as well.
> 
> I can probably spin my own somewhere, but... the tools provided one was
> very nice :)

You're welcome to use this: 
  http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-sidr-3
(and equivalent for later interims, incrementing the -3 as needed)


Best regards,

	Henrik


From henrik@levkowetz.com  Mon May 28 05:45:32 2012
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Incorrect revision number of draft for tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/
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Hi,

On 2012-05-25 16:47 SM said:
> Hello,
> 
> tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/ displays revision "07" for 
> draft-ietf-spfbis-experiment.  The current version of the draft is 
> draft-ietf-spfbis-experiment-09.

Ack.  One of the servers (which you hit) hadn't sync'ed properly; fixed.

> tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/draft-ietf-spfbis-experiment/ doesn't list 
> versions -08 and -09 of the draft.

Right.  Also an effect of the sync problem.  Fixed.

Thanks for the alert!


	Henrik

From morrowc@ops-netman.net  Mon May 28 07:31:10 2012
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Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] There was a note about etherpad an outage?
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On 05/28/2012 05:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 
> On 2012-05-25 16:24 Chris Morrow said:
> 
>> great! my follow-up question is probably best stated as: "Where can I
>> get another token?" we have an interim meeting coming up (6/6) and would
>> like to utilize etherpad for that as well.
>>
>> I can probably spin my own somewhere, but... the tools provided one was
>> very nice :)
> 
> You're welcome to use this: 
>   http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-sidr-3
> (and equivalent for later interims, incrementing the -3 as needed)

oh terrific! so essentially it'll make a new 'pad' with every invocation
of new name?

> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 	Henrik

From Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com  Thu May 31 09:12:35 2012
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From: "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: audio archive links on sidr wg page
Thread-Index: Ac0/RqviJS9IRd43R2Ot+DE660HPKQ==
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:12:32 +0000
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
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Links to the audio archive on the sidr tools site minutes page fail (detail=
s below)=0A=
=0A=
A random search through half a dozen other wg pages report the same.=0A=
=0A=
This must be due to the fact that the tools page is set up with the correct=
 link for the duration of the IETF, and not updated when the audio archive =
is moved to the official proceedings site.=0A=
=0A=
But some wg members have been alarmed that the archive is not found.  Yes, =
I've corrected them and pointed to the proceedings page, but it would be ni=
ce to have some indication on the tools site - either update the link (ok, =
maybe hard) or say "this link functional only for the duration of the meeti=
ng" or some such.=0A=
=0A=
--Sandy, sidr co-chair=0A=
=0A=
On the sidr tools site minutes page=0A=
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes=0A=
=0A=
there are links for the audio streams that point to=0A=
=0A=
ietf83streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf832.m3u=0A=
=0A=
which has only a 41 byte file that contains=0A=
=0A=
http://nagasaki.bogus.com:8000/stream02=0A=
=0A=
which reports "The file you requested could not be found"=

From sm@resistor.net  Thu May 31 09:43:28 2012
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To: "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
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Cc: sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
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Hi Sandra,

[fixed chairs email alias]

At 09:12 31-05-2012, Murphy, Sandra wrote:
>Links to the audio archive on the sidr tools site minutes page fail 
>(details below)

The links at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes do not 
fail.  Session "2012-03-26 1300-1500: 241" and Session "2012-03-28 
0900-1130: 241" are for the audio streams.  This is a real-time 
stream available during the meeting and not after the meeting.

>  them and pointed to the proceedings page, but it would be nice to 
> have some indication on the tools site - either update the link 
> (ok, maybe hard) or say "this link functional only for the duration 
> of the meeting" or some such.

I suggest disabling the "Audio stream" and WG "chatroom" links after 
a meeting.  Alternatively, a note could be added mentioning that the 
above links are only accessible during the session.

It would have been easier if the actual link was included in the 
minutes instead of suggesting the approach at 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr/current/msg04713.html

Regards,
-sm 


From Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com  Thu May 31 10:35:50 2012
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From: "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
To: SM <sm@resistor.net>
Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
Thread-Index: Ac0/RqviJS9IRd43R2Ot+DE660HPKQABd9ZWAACZoI0=
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 17:35:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
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>[fixed chairs email alias]=0A=
=0A=
Looks like you changed the sidr@ietf.org to sidr@tools.ietf.org - I thought=
 sidr@ietf.org was the "official" version.  No?=0A=
=0A=
>The links at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes do not=0A=
>fail.  Session "2012-03-26 1300-1500: 241" and Session "2012-03-28=0A=
>0900-1130: 241" are for the audio streams.  This is a real-time=0A=
>stream available during the meeting and not after the meeting.=0A=
=0A=
For me and others, the links do not find the right file.=0A=
=0A=
I don't quite grok this paragraph.  You say "do not fail' and then "availab=
le ... not after the meeting".  Which is it, "works now" or "worked in the =
past but not now"?=0A=
=0A=
>I suggest disabling the "Audio stream" and WG "chatroom" links after=0A=
>a meeting.  Alternatively, a note could be added mentioning that the=0A=
>above links are only accessible during the session.=0A=
=0A=
Either works for me!=0A=
=0A=
>It would have been easier if the actual link was included in the=0A=
>minutes instead of suggesting the approach at=0A=
>http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr/current/msg04713.html=0A=
=0A=
It would indeed be good to put the archive link in the minutes.  I point to=
 the www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83 page in my meeting agenda slides.  Is there =
a pre-announcement of the "ietf83-241-20120326-1256-pm.mp3" part of the nam=
e so it's available for putting in the minutes?  If so, I'll look for it ne=
xt time and be sure it gets into the minutes.=0A=
=0A=
--Sandy=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: SM [sm@resistor.net]=0A=
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:41 PM=0A=
To: Murphy, Sandra=0A=
Cc: sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page=0A=
=0A=
Hi Sandra,=0A=
=0A=
[fixed chairs email alias]=0A=
=0A=
At 09:12 31-05-2012, Murphy, Sandra wrote:=0A=
>Links to the audio archive on the sidr tools site minutes page fail=0A=
>(details below)=0A=
=0A=
The links at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes do not=0A=
fail.  Session "2012-03-26 1300-1500: 241" and Session "2012-03-28=0A=
0900-1130: 241" are for the audio streams.  This is a real-time=0A=
stream available during the meeting and not after the meeting.=0A=
=0A=
>  them and pointed to the proceedings page, but it would be nice to=0A=
> have some indication on the tools site - either update the link=0A=
> (ok, maybe hard) or say "this link functional only for the duration=0A=
> of the meeting" or some such.=0A=
=0A=
I suggest disabling the "Audio stream" and WG "chatroom" links after=0A=
a meeting.  Alternatively, a note could be added mentioning that the=0A=
above links are only accessible during the session.=0A=
=0A=
It would have been easier if the actual link was included in the=0A=
minutes instead of suggesting the approach at=0A=
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr/current/msg04713.html=0A=
=0A=
Regards,=0A=
-sm=0A=
=0A=

From sm@resistor.net  Thu May 31 11:06:40 2012
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 11:06:24 -0700
To: "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
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Cc: sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
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Hi Sandra,
At 10:35 31-05-2012, Murphy, Sandra wrote:
>Looks like you changed the sidr@ietf.org to sidr@tools.ietf.org - I 
>thought sidr@ietf.org was the "official" version.  No?

Your Cc was to sidr-chairs@ instead of sidr@.  sidr@ietf.org is for 
the SIDR mailing list.

>For me and others, the links do not find the right file.

The link is to listen to the audio as for a live broadcast.  It is 
not a link to the recording of the broadcast.

>I don't quite grok this paragraph.  You say "do not fail' and then 
>"available ... not after the meeting".  Which is it, "works now" or 
>"worked in the past but not now"?

Some events have live streaming, for example, 
http://ietf83streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf832.m3u  That is not the 
same as 
http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83/ietf83-241-20120326-1256-pm.mp3  The 
link to the mp3 file is the one that works after the meeting.  If 
someone wants to listen to what happened during the SIDR IETF83 
session, they cannot use the "live streaming" link anymore.

>It would indeed be good to put the archive link in the minutes.  I 
>point to the www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83 page in my meeting agenda 
>slides.  Is there a pre-announcement of the 
>"ietf83-241-20120326-1256-pm.mp3" part of the name so it's available 
>for putting in the minutes?  If so, I'll look for it next time and 
>be sure it gets into the minutes.

No, the person who needs the audio recording will have to go and find 
that out.  If you point to the www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83 page, the 
person will have to go and figure out what is the actual 
filename.  It is not easy for a participant who is not familiar with the IETF.

Here's some minutes with links to the audio files:

http://tools.ietf.org/wg/alto/minutes
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/minutes

The ALTO example is unusual as one of the WG Chairs does some 
post-processing so that participants can find the audio recording of 
an item on the agenda.  There was a thread about audio recordings for 
IETF83 ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg72765.html ).

Regards,
-sm 


From Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com  Thu May 31 13:01:15 2012
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From: "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
To: SM <sm@resistor.net>
Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
Thread-Index: Ac0/RqviJS9IRd43R2Ot+DE660HPKQABd9ZWAACZoI0ABTOMngAAFdes
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 20:01:10 +0000
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References: <24B20D14B2CD29478C8D5D6E9CBB29F625F12F0F@Hermes.columbia.ads.sparta.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120531093128.0af78d90@resistor.net> <24B20D14B2CD29478C8D5D6E9CBB29F625F12F52@Hermes.columbia.ads.sparta.com>, <6.2.5.6.2.20120531103951.098e6f80@resistor.net>
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Cc: "sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "tools-discuss@ietf.org" <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
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Right, sidr@ietf.org is for the wg.  Misspoke my question.  Substitute sidr=
-chairs in all cases.  I sent to sidr-chairs@ietf.org, you "fixed" it to si=
dr-chairs@tools.ietf.org=FD.  Why?  Is sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org=FD the co=
rrect/official version?=0A=
=0A=
You suggested putting a link to the recording in the minutes which is absol=
utely the ideal no question, but the IETF list thread  you point to makes t=
he point that the full stable URL for the recording is not always available=
 when the minutes are being prepared, which was my point.  No real reason t=
o continue this topic.=0A=
=0A=
To get back to my original message.  I'm happy that you suggest that the mi=
nutes page for the tools wg sites could be clarified that the audio stream =
link is not available after the meeting. =0A=
=0A=
--Sandy=0A=
________________________________________=0A=
From: SM [sm@resistor.net]=0A=
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:06 PM=0A=
To: Murphy, Sandra=0A=
Cc: sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org=0A=
Subject: RE: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page=0A=
=0A=
Hi Sandra,=0A=
At 10:35 31-05-2012, Murphy, Sandra wrote:=0A=
>Looks like you changed the sidr@ietf.org to sidr@tools.ietf.org - I=0A=
>thought sidr@ietf.org was the "official" version.  No?=0A=
=0A=
Your Cc was to sidr-chairs@ instead of sidr@.  sidr@ietf.org is for=0A=
the SIDR mailing list.=0A=
=0A=
>For me and others, the links do not find the right file.=0A=
=0A=
The link is to listen to the audio as for a live broadcast.  It is=0A=
not a link to the recording of the broadcast.=0A=
=0A=
>I don't quite grok this paragraph.  You say "do not fail' and then=0A=
>"available ... not after the meeting".  Which is it, "works now" or=0A=
>"worked in the past but not now"?=0A=
=0A=
Some events have live streaming, for example,=0A=
http://ietf83streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf832.m3u  That is not the=0A=
same as=0A=
http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83/ietf83-241-20120326-1256-pm.mp3  The=0A=
link to the mp3 file is the one that works after the meeting.  If=0A=
someone wants to listen to what happened during the SIDR IETF83=0A=
session, they cannot use the "live streaming" link anymore.=0A=
=0A=
>It would indeed be good to put the archive link in the minutes.  I=0A=
>point to the www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83 page in my meeting agenda=0A=
>slides.  Is there a pre-announcement of the=0A=
>"ietf83-241-20120326-1256-pm.mp3" part of the name so it's available=0A=
>for putting in the minutes?  If so, I'll look for it next time and=0A=
>be sure it gets into the minutes.=0A=
=0A=
No, the person who needs the audio recording will have to go and find=0A=
that out.  If you point to the www.ietf.org/audio/ietf83 page, the=0A=
person will have to go and figure out what is the actual=0A=
filename.  It is not easy for a participant who is not familiar with the IE=
TF.=0A=
=0A=
Here's some minutes with links to the audio files:=0A=
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/alto/minutes=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/spfbis/minutes=0A=
=0A=
The ALTO example is unusual as one of the WG Chairs does some=0A=
post-processing so that participants can find the audio recording of=0A=
an item on the agenda.  There was a thread about audio recordings for=0A=
IETF83 ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg72765.html ).=
=0A=
=0A=
Regards,=0A=
-sm=0A=
=0A=

From sm@resistor.net  Thu May 31 13:49:40 2012
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Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 13:45:42 -0700
To: "Murphy, Sandra" <Sandra.Murphy@sparta.com>
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
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Cc: sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] audio archive links on sidr wg page
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Hi Sandra,
At 13:01 31-05-2012, Murphy, Sandra wrote:
>Right, sidr@ietf.org is for the wg.  Misspoke my=20
>question.  Substitute sidr-chairs in all=20
>cases.  I sent to sidr-chairs@ietf.org, you=20
>"fixed" it to=20
>sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org.  Why?  Is=20
>sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org=FD the correct/official version?

According to information from tools.ietf.org the=20
sidr-chairs@tools.ietf.org email alias can be=20
used to reach the WG Chairs.  I used the email=20
address which I presume will work instead of=20
trying to figure out the official version.

Regards,
-sm