From nobody Thu Sep 7 09:51:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C8D132924 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:51:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tRzJTJyvJIN5 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1519B124207 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F4B2009E for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AABB806B4 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:51:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:51:30 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Would it be reasonable to add two columns to each document that DT tracks. One would be "revision_controlled_at" column which would point to some place where the history repo of the document exists. http:, git:, and potentially hg:, etc. URL would be welcome. A second column would point towards a URL at which a human may interact with an issue tracker. This item would default to the tools TRAC for IDs that are in WGs. (Maybe WG chairs would be able to turn off the TRAC, but that's a seperate issue) At this point, I simply want to be able to find each thing easily, *particularly* for individual submissions which may not yet be adopted (or may never be). I know that many have suggested that the IETF ought to be cloning/mirroring any repos used as part of the NoteWell and (personal) disaster recovery process. So having a bunch of URLs would be useful for that, but as far as I'm concerned there is value anyway. I'm sure a few will answer will be "send code": I probably will, but I felt it worth asking first so as not to duplicate effort. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlmxeQ8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWUcggAliic8MVkyA25HpeUBX5jAZOg/OZJxAjXBwcOepg4cwyxmozDnljfv38t ssVfdMe13p1jNlutfIIKl/05+U9+gx2Ht1Q+8NuD6UPC/slAMCHdAHiB8XpO9h6K FT3B+rXPniBdTbOL1WhAu8K/xrSC0aFLKMx6nhTRREm6pTCAj5/Q/yePw8lSmh0X xdSSYxcvOxfzvomvXMcQzsruqdtAAXtMXVHpZ6v9HpZiwr1QBOWC+2zwVQFQLFL9 L2Ykg7QUTXtzkU0wV3lA4CoZFRlnB6SermKrcG61vJB9tRunXw+TXcGmEcgTJve1 2+sI5YZcd6256bapxQJvzQzfCTFQ5Q== =AAvF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 09:53:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3261132CE9 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:53:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2A-arb5Imv8b for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (amt0.gin.ntt.net [129.250.11.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E312124207 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.10.119] (unknown [107.13.249.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 979D04BD; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Tom Pusateri In-Reply-To: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:53:32 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:53:38 -0000 > On Sep 7, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Would it be reasonable to add two columns to each document that DT = tracks. >=20 > One would be "revision_controlled_at" column which would point to some = place > where the history repo of the document exists. http:, git:, and = potentially > hg:, etc. URL would be welcome. >=20 > A second column would point towards a URL at which a human may = interact with an > issue tracker. This item would default to the tools TRAC for IDs that = are in > WGs. (Maybe WG chairs would be able to turn off the TRAC, but that's a > seperate issue) >=20 > At this point, I simply want to be able to find each thing easily, > *particularly* for individual submissions which may not yet be adopted > (or may never be). >=20 > I know that many have suggested that the IETF ought to be = cloning/mirroring > any repos used as part of the NoteWell and (personal) disaster = recovery > process. So having a bunch of URLs would be useful for that, but as = far as > I'm concerned there is value anyway. >=20 > I'm sure a few will answer will be "send code": I probably will, but I = felt > it worth asking first so as not to duplicate effort. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- I think this is a great idea. There are lots of drafts on Github these = days and the github issue tracker is used but it=E2=80=99s hard to find = them. Tom= From nobody Thu Sep 7 10:46:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F9B132F76 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:46:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vblQmd9wcswf for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71B6E132F7E for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.79.116]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M8eAd-1dUEpR0mKx-00wHQ9; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 19:46:06 +0200 To: Tom Pusateri , Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 19:46:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:eekBzQ4hkkisk5wmISHp2Y/ytYUvHzXuntn9cVN6l3HU0u9NZ9Y qvAXI9mzDuPs8wgLl5XHFBx5WG/MahNqtH1KlBUfDVaOL25s/skOELc3c2pe/joxSmLvKcc /55Y4BkZ0xetNgN2O7zFXtwQ7MFXMrC5KyS/wWXPZJxjWWcQbwLtkQyrC+R5Ma5212kDvdg pEr/nb2pKuMXoZz1pXp+Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:NHt2tgRFvHw=:i6uBZCJ+bNVNNVHEaAkm1U pWV4PAJTObAHMjvyn0/jUT0zydvO6Xi7hg9J4YJPJpfb72Jdcl2tGPXATpyMcpdpSJ7YhASsJ l8vrT3WAMAhcDqPNLOyP6M7oUZPspvqb4PLH7GetoyWEY0AKn8pw+u9ziJ72QzDMNmpdzkJXq C5IoCwxdQ2QoAxGFZOWj6ZzcgrupV5vYAxWPi0+y4tnRGDlEcbDbJ0vjIDYz6kOqyCOoFVrHR ZRMu1TJnODU8ntwrnirLpIYQhqrZJDcLsEYxFnSA8EPPc2LhCqmanftCAs0sVQmb5AvRSWjjY kv/g0Y0czfbiWS85dte1/eJAvomb6OYLbB2lI1WbcHzpNu81TBZ91TO0J/JfueQ+cIsIpkq+p m0m+mlCZ95L15DXuAFpMtCemx3W3PJaa53vRDWw/6Pk/ptDkLuORsEqgKKQLkqpARr/QgArR+ vCxPxIGXG0ISs1cWWDsJnL+io7+OYgnLT3SBBq9NKr0XLDT8k9tfxzX9XjvASmcgVKyj19PCd RvU2Dwg6O6YDxXMsd/z6iOturtdIL7vkJ2IxTTFREGOELWEH4bv/24/wpmC5jWsmfA4pHHpdt oS5CDS9oSpdOMuMYQITDnEWk4IOHtTHmYyjrPXicC3AX+NHjXafGl16Lm/10sBDYm5qwmIIQ1 YTaNDRyVD4EcgKon8UJSP51DgFhQYOpt8tAIkk9s0z6sgp0dPkfn30zkx3kJRC2p/OwygLcLc S96VpHFem/1CFdJLpEZo0sjTLIl6DHgAE4/iG4gDj+NrzStgSJiWeagnHkVoSv6AyA1ze6pn7 j9ffUYOddR1TXoHHQE9AOdGDy5JTsdMyouJWyC3N57cr+oki1c= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:46:17 -0000 On 2017-09-07 18:53, Tom Pusateri wrote: > ... > I think this is a great idea. There are lots of drafts on Github these days and the github issue tracker is used but it’s hard to find them. > ... I agree it's a good idea. That said, *some* authors/WGs already add issue tracker/repository information to the front page of their drafts. Best regards, Julian From nobody Thu Sep 7 13:10:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABBC132981 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:10:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SQCa5tM2YGLl for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A0DC120720 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE612E223; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F853806B4; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:10:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Julian Reschke cc: Tom Pusateri , tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:10:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-09-07 18:53, Tom Pusateri wrote: >> ... >> I think this is a great idea. There are lots of drafts on Github the= se days and the github issue tracker is used but it=E2=80=99s hard to find = them. >> ... > I agree it's a good idea. I wouldn't mind if the info was also in some xml tags or equivalent. > That said, *some* authors/WGs already add issue tracker/repository > information to the front page of their drafts. That's a good idea. Be nice to have some other xml tags for , which we actually do in many places already. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlmxp8kACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVdgggAt3eLkbaW+a6W9zp3eAeFrthONo8chWHifQ7oz2EQYWQoHpDchpIvLngP zVHsCtdMJsxUUw3w83AxVB7OYf/aHPlkPfApSkFsYXeWuW5lShT6PCXlG+L1pvSw Tq3avF1hGzNJAHEB3z0k9DMucSVOlf5eLgPgBKdrjl4LJRv7UaRGz2IhRngSuUKF hO1exgXhXWdtAlV3AcZHu4qXrpeA2DlAFQXDKCDuzjAquzX8W1tsoLKWViin91fg Rw0jPKpU+EjYprMG0EgZPFTmNToroAuoFarZqado4/w1gh9HbhSczhZV08bgsITC s1F86NbYLtHIqul1mt76tnEF+yQNiw== =TBRk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 14:22:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0930D132F0D for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 14:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mH1W7bu9DNYb for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76609127005 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5DCF1F99B for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F1E4B202D1; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:20:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 21:22:28 -0000 On Thu 2017-09-07 19:46:05 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-09-07 18:53, Tom Pusateri wrote: >> ... >> I think this is a great idea. There are lots of drafts on Github these days and the github issue tracker is used but it’s hard to find them. >> ... > > I agree it's a good idea. > > That said, *some* authors/WGs already add issue tracker/repository > information to the front page of their drafts. I also like this proposal, and i think having a clear, standard place outside of the document which stores it would be good even if the draft already mentions it internally. --dkg From nobody Thu Sep 7 16:59:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD54133035 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:59:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sU7oAZxUBVxT for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98C61133030 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id l74so2532519oih.1 for ; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:59:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GI2bW4aHC9c04bZfyM75MBVgX3eUyTL45Z5XwJWR+Js=; b=teBTwqN8oz/C6lQgT2T89be3wjWgURWRvqfLRYLIZ4snNeKSr6YN/sn0qWnoDxDaLj f4i5QESkYnZCzgf5BZWpbLH1CTKaJALEata8ZPOb7q8M1c1PoWh4uC4nZIFgjJZQtiQs SOp4bZ6nK+n3dHGVAUlq3iotjq99wRlq5jJQrpWb0t1rPxbfeqF5gs1xGGPqViE6I1ws u9Kya4IyQ77DTnvgibxpyLtcEW+R8+xkJ3dOfxsNebvMTkCdA+BFIr2QU4xpqgtIpdbk BTcv5BCRj7QSYqeXQoAuTbdej8qqOFutk3ptlRdCGSUHUnLfzrO6SLwGPD3GF2uV7RF6 tCsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GI2bW4aHC9c04bZfyM75MBVgX3eUyTL45Z5XwJWR+Js=; b=Cnpv6xBl0OMm6Cfv69mTQzu1bVbdRdctFoML4iDEARbl13BjdQi/u7XVph1lGsbY7W Sy7PBRWQnFOHRQWMLna2rzS2y8jxgPxZzb9UYv8j1xOt/IzvI14aRyAE40SyYSY9bgaI mpPCnZmJJMg7Cm+lzxOuYVjn4jiy3yBLms5aHMrWQnOH9H8CTx5NfGrHWM3jFKwmYC5F zTIM2crlvtntLIn5d5D87QeYhnaDZLND+uLlfn0/Wc2emNd7/JGbk0jkKTTnobbdiNwu 95R35JtLz47363E7e9cpM3znBPwPKnGbp34XrqLvnakboK4q9OVIIfOHkhLoMfqMhL6Q c7TQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUimqw3sfMTZmHhH7ewT3qdA2RDfRhIEdZgq2rSZbP2WJ9l7ljnH /YfWiHvzJrPzYVSKffZkKvjrgdrVjfJ+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCeeV9mK1Q7lXOSob08mRlKX0TyoDc+cyw9AWoc4Ev8Vk+5pSWQTKYrsrJyTSU0cPga6LextYDdJSm8z/24lXY= X-Received: by 10.202.87.213 with SMTP id l204mr1171200oib.38.1504828742004; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:59:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.14.77 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:59:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> From: Martin Thomson Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:59:01 +1000 Message-ID: To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 23:59:04 -0000 On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > [...] having a clear, standard place > outside of the document which stores it would be good even if the draft > already mentions it internally. Very much so. I think that I requested this when I was talking to Henrik about automated draft submission (coming soon, I hope). Having clearly identifiable metadata is superior to having the information in the draft. You can build tools that use the metadata. Also, I forget to add the stuff Julian talks about, and I'm sure many others do. I can automate the addition of the metadata. From nobody Thu Sep 7 17:35:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655BB133048 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:35:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s7qvZaR4g09a for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 735DB133007 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.108]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id q7EudYzMpxYV9q7G8dGaTh; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 00:35:00 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id q7G6dK9TBCrDMq7G7dy86f; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 00:35:00 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v880YwEZ015980; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 20:34:58 -0400 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v880Yw8f015977; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 20:34:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> (mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:34:57 -0400 Message-ID: <87lglqauz2.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfO+W+bx+c0snCtcF9kbEA3hQ6G3iwh86E8M47DrIlHwgLf7IQDXivBOXUBAfnSUNJV2FRd6XWS8hQkJw4x1H5kNIvAMh4fsqj4ERV0AGfYtkb03BHS14 EEWsArrg7NYqFVdfuOz9qd0HltOkIkoeMKwArhpw1kgc54mENKhHN1detq98cUAkTUZUVKK0EqDfdspUy29gtJo+TeR+m2//0Wk= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 00:35:02 -0000 Michael Richardson writes: > One would be "revision_controlled_at" column which would point to some place > where the history repo of the document exists. http:, git:, and potentially > hg:, etc. URL would be welcome. Doesn't the Datatracker *contain* the history of the document? Dale From nobody Thu Sep 7 18:09:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B214512ECEC for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:09:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vcQnP9f6NgJ for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5405133076 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F168200A3; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ADA3806B4; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <87lglqauz2.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> References: <87lglqauz2.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 01:09:44 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Dale R. Worley wrote: > Michael Richardson writes: >> One would be "revision_controlled_at" column which would point to some place >> where the history repo of the document exists. http:, git:, and potentially >> hg:, etc. URL would be welcome. > Doesn't the Datatracker *contain* the history of the document? No, it contains the versions that the authors submitted. It has no process for sending text, or access to the "source" forms (such as markdown). -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlmx7dMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUJtAf+LKqpAu4LDNEbwDfzU3lbEkj/lGfKj7g+JtsA3Nq2+F4vb0VOxw9O8zEm W9SqAQop/gMIQ8RRvxyK5K98yD49Pb2nFgdfvir18M9DpO5oSMXVrb+TkFIdlqgn M87+kjjE1gPcbyCL9DJpud0KcMoxiiucR+bWXYvNQzAr2gxjqtAuxqmu8BLu3ID8 qGeABFwXXhxJAhE2OCmER14Py7wY1PqyWSqHVPpZCmudARnjJux3NIsS3PO9Y0PT yw3Xjpjh8hE/cjP/+lz4lwxh4wRLmkrGC2dg9VhhszsG+hcctElhAk0py3St97G3 gEHbgq9f/BHr5D5vi34d+4cjv/NBNQ== =JfOo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 21:11:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E40132742 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:11:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yuMmmzBVHkOt for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DC99124319 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.75.135]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M8IuM-1dToUq46mw-00vued; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 06:11:39 +0200 To: Martin Thomson , Daniel Kahn Gillmor Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <3effa97a-3454-f373-1d73-81c162d07577@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 06:11:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Z9tbmKBYSAuYCPf6ifPyWOAvBTKlvLktSoqzp5VrwxJPuh4w0k0 yahT81g5VIMMi5KcZHIS9L0xYS2EXVUDcI9PPIPMn/3+YMS4G5huaIEbq6EKzpKOBFaUYv5 GPzOl4DySbYpPPK0A0ikYbty2uAtdeTQvf+gcyj80zRqPwab52OnEPLxph1VxL4KkHQcCMr 7AY6NIbzUUuVfsHw6TCUg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:Y4yu+B82zN4=:iQPHdTekXQ61ay3dQ6hAj0 2IJ/wVtkfm4ck4HF68RljB/wwLAJGoC4f59Ej0IizfWyMIVW3KnAp8i4OTIVSeBRvMYzYj91Q S933aOYUEo7+BfBu+sJymw8vQNWWKQ1UuvVhyvHK4PVlTGDkqFj2tZFjmklJDZGxYecpVvuLs Im2aQOGXmTQz9xWn0tmNAR/I1mF5O6cpqER7LtpJeactGhx7jY21cw6lFIDctPaw64pe6Ig5i THlFiKTClcZ0hyi2tQKYUH02Wh/b1uzBsEnJfLzpcg7XTvJF9lGvK4zUq6XU4u1E5Jur8Irca 0FDRCUoN7Ko5rGL0FO4n+t2EEBJSpz+UmL8omYHT66LPvjJdhjRvDcSr0V9BVHTxmpiqs4O5G yP9kafoOC4u+SzzYf2IeH4Z0ScbXw6r8gmh1+lVWjK5gCSwyU8kBZSPgfIjmlrwfciGfMq9Li jOVzmAiWmQPpwA6aQCeUR3QAnnStnmtYWVpTZx5jc1IOLyWvP6TRiX4uNmDmbMiqj4+v86GG7 Sf6joEh74SSJOASlV9ji5h4OsQnbsCnb5uMT4gnVsdInayqZv9XU2AzvBXCHjwqzBltoHb5nT p8FG4HZkaN4alt3SRu8NNitHRfBwuwl6JsK+9xY+AGr1ZJTVItTGo39926H+n4EnpohfD67cH jZGDYWUhrmlNuo3Tk6Dpz98m8BdrA6AaYXIYkXCH/BDrtMF8rOLhLxZaXnkrrsrhMDSO5A4wM oS80Q40XAH/RC7JkFjAg4aWJDYgL9rLSk7bdTUFHF0i25yLg+sMi2RIV8fU8VyWXAJmSUZMFc 8Jacf3TK8BF61wdBzv2ybfisuTbNrdaShoDwKunFeMEKj54Lbc= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 04:11:46 -0000 On 2017-09-08 01:59, Martin Thomson wrote: > On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor > wrote: >> [...] having a clear, standard place >> outside of the document which stores it would be good even if the draft >> already mentions it internally. > > Very much so. I think that I requested this when I was talking to > Henrik about automated draft submission (coming soon, I hope). Having > clearly identifiable metadata is superior to having the information in > the draft. You can build tools that use the metadata. Also, I forget > to add the stuff Julian talks about, and I'm sure many others do. I > can automate the addition of the metadata. If you can automate the addition of metadata, why can't you automate the addition of data as well? Best regards, Julian (not *opposed* to metadata, but it would be good ot it turned to readable text for readers of the draft) From nobody Thu Sep 7 22:07:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9170B132D84 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:07:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Wqil2KgOTKy for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 936921321C8 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id r20so9191285oie.0 for ; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 22:07:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TcSIokHtkP0wojmWCOgC9+3gZ3/O4aq+BwUsXzlWJy4=; b=JY1yfRNnKBTTt0Pb3NYR1XIvT3TiYtJMYLilOLywCwNnXS24g9OqR1z/sdmSoeR3R/ G7gzTifCZX44SI7PM7L/7J65jbAe83IdV4h/3bBTDTa8mLUyrzrrAxW9Nx37ONs/Ug1q oDzrN8vX1cEq1mUpE34ZLUw8X+Ja3y8aavepjL/s9C1ybsPK4V2eZ+5vGtGXW3zKOAXH T9CJL1WMopGDIZaohoZwWCbqKNAewlgSzYCUzqHDVKwx3h/q8+fGpmhuHhB1FigXhDBo vZtYbKjpPxNp5y8DP+9u4rnR913a6dM/3azDPOZao//b8VfPYZN8su8HWlu09cwEtvrl k/IA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TcSIokHtkP0wojmWCOgC9+3gZ3/O4aq+BwUsXzlWJy4=; b=D4s6/PeYmlYlchJ2QzLmbqffp1AcrAhPECIyiJGmyuRvXthsekpSaAMFWIEoBjCAfh zyJWIIAvIm8PLM5MT3gtyr4u0tJt4c3NTkixB0+Zp+TpvH2ezcHXmqrJbYwMl3wuBcvb QSYdcGtNe2cM+MW4vYNc8yZS4C4HUiIJz5c24DuBHTZYgzmXYBB+uoMfRFiiJsdk7OJH qL7/D3DCTkdo3R8KlozaGBjFaur/NxrxxqPGxpv+GlPAWC2MWSQyOfHyo7HraZ36OlKZ abxJZvdJ9MMHg2ydEE/JzMehsPNZgCKJkJSmodqyx/kt77+I9LbOmf1egXtzkCasVi79 QMeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhugi0DIqFsabbgWtMnVggd0aJ/bQAet76BtWmDQ3bAX6KfSAR4 lVrcjQ6F6e4Oas3h2uUhw32dgn81dQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QD0q61u1oONpLjH6rbc0hniVZp0adfDStiqTaST8aXpMbTPkjy6IFnZRGhj17st0ydYIx3zEJcOM1Fe09P25eU= X-Received: by 10.202.229.203 with SMTP id c194mr1928492oih.92.1504847247864; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 22:07:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.14.77 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:07:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3effa97a-3454-f373-1d73-81c162d07577@gmx.de> References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <3effa97a-3454-f373-1d73-81c162d07577@gmx.de> From: Martin Thomson Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 15:07:27 +1000 Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 05:07:29 -0000 On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: > If you can automate the addition of metadata, why can't you automate the > addition of data as well? If I could reliably detect that the text was already there, maybe. False negatives means adding redundant information. Also, there are many input formats. That's new code for every variant. Not impossible, it's just easier to add metadata. As long as displaying that metadata is easy enough. Of course, if xml2rfc were to accept a new XML attribute/element and use that to generate a standardized paragraph, adding the metadata to XML is fairly simple. From nobody Thu Sep 7 22:24:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D281330C6 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:24:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uH2FSnHEewpb for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B99B813301E for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.75.135]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LjLwB-1dK9PS2L5L-00dYD9; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 07:24:01 +0200 To: Martin Thomson Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <3effa97a-3454-f373-1d73-81c162d07577@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <3d63de6c-d430-2879-1127-54d672242881@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:24:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:lT6/h+akG5VPjtb3r6ro7fg1A5HxMQSqU1tzos018jynhS8o6Jr OTYA8vuK0G16uaJOYU1OiKSFs2VMfe7/cU3nZge1cuskX5epj1BuZWwPICEmyP9qYTjJs8Z Y8X6pvXcUtbS9l0s5B7bLMk1M069JGRyPgXcjeclRw9hU3kJBqdbTai4G1aepL/QF9r3UGs qzKlHGxPJ+Rqy2kh543Qw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:gtEo9YGQSNE=:O+1Wo4m+X/tVqQ5yRx5JJU 0T1z5ielvr7uCkIW/TYqeqz227rj938dMHTMMX891dgXyNWlpYisSWkdddcTBFNqhiCyX0CJ1 vtd8zdJFz+LaVcd++6ktrj5GshyGg/G2IjsOr+weXutwde0sVUK9Cf8qRdkOJN0/PHRuutvIq UG+GVX4JMZQDSXvwrRTlTLtzsSuSyr+KMfdZHQ8geE6X5AnVvKL9eGc2bth13FoiNPSXQ9Ax6 kshe6xPPmwIEnlzdAUxw18W6xHpEESTySy1ZNDggdq5dMkX9kg1Nr0zAfcNh8jTcXM3eWv7x6 /R2edTsQfSzlzVR7QHC1+I5qBBoqLgXAgpZl1he4NUsSXNy4Vejnh2HlhavaHb5PynfdizxWj P7HYwd+ERjKEyqVd2R4IZ5L9NxeHvi59+jbJcN0J3mr0URhJD1hYeCWsK/7+N+pqJLTqD7gLM 1QLbfbLHOERySeRzSUiSUPZ8sTHLPG+elNOcmFXpoYvnIAob+A7izGflRqIEApIQ/eLFSZ9A0 eIxpimJ6GBGcgRH+lvPBjpN2wna93g0XafAk/g6dQ7Htok7DoUD6LwxmR6ciyobc1eT2Evbte T1ZE6Zif7kVVh2oUDsPpR9EbYufMaHeXJegmOHplCE4m/0f+SfUkqeLR0QpHkKmLLlYyZHSKo n2niZRq/nQRSzEhLyU6F9v9C8Xrh5QNnzJteanFgM3AF5J+0kAC5BRfjRj4nWm73ztnIa+Voy D44wv8Hwy61ZBW+UXXzBBdgrrjGX+7VDCoj/88V03RrDmO0A0TB5lN/1XzOAKL74FEH5dI+At /SD+pEc4c98YAhb5kVHXXy04wRNjtDyqn9zuhMSqntsCtrBWDM= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 05:24:07 -0000 On 2017-09-08 07:07, Martin Thomson wrote: > On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Julian Reschke wrote: >> If you can automate the addition of metadata, why can't you automate the >> addition of data as well? > > If I could reliably detect that the text was already there, maybe. > False negatives means adding redundant information. You could check for a with a well-defined @title, or for a paragraph in a note with a well defined @anchor. > Also, there are many input formats. That's new code for every variant. That's the same problem for metadata, right? > Not impossible, it's just easier to add metadata. As long as > displaying that metadata is easy enough. > > Of course, if xml2rfc were to accept a new XML attribute/element and > use that to generate a standardized paragraph, adding the metadata to > XML is fairly simple. with a custom link relation comes to mind... Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Sep 8 05:12:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24C71326ED for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 05:12:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lDDvWEZmnWos for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 05:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97CFC13239C for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 05:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-99-61.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([82.196.99.61]:56761 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1dqI9R-00023J-4T; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 05:12:49 -0700 To: Martin Thomson , Daniel Kahn Gillmor References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <3d3e60b1-95a8-229e-0ee4-8552b6338a6e@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 14:12:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eBPeVSv2MvetJrBbPoLMRB7Aw3RbaWPob" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 82.196.99.61 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, dkg@fifthhorseman.net, martin.thomson@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 12:12:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --eBPeVSv2MvetJrBbPoLMRB7Aw3RbaWPob Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4iLVgRRI7TRXFMKdR0RQxM8NSKssQVK49"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Martin Thomson , Daniel Kahn Gillmor Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org Discussion" Message-ID: <3d3e60b1-95a8-229e-0ee4-8552b6338a6e@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] repo and issue tracker per draft References: <16073.1504803087@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <87fuby6w92.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: --4iLVgRRI7TRXFMKdR0RQxM8NSKssQVK49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2017-09-08 01:59, Martin Thomson wrote: > On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor > wrote: >> [...] having a clear, standard place >> outside of the document which stores it would be good even if the draf= t >> already mentions it internally. >=20 > Very much so. I think that I requested this when I was talking to > Henrik about automated draft submission (coming soon, I hope). Having > clearly identifiable metadata is superior to having the information in > the draft. You can build tools that use the metadata. Also, I forget > to add the stuff Julian talks about, and I'm sure many others do. I > can automate the addition of the metadata. Yes. I'll make this part of the more general feature of providing suppor= t for associating URLs with documents, which is right after the automated draft submission item in my PLAN file: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/browser/trunk/PLAN Best regards, Henrik --4iLVgRRI7TRXFMKdR0RQxM8NSKssQVK49-- --eBPeVSv2MvetJrBbPoLMRB7Aw3RbaWPob Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZsok5AAoJEE6bV0uPuxcaw3UQAMHPXhJBMijr7pWmiWyWDRBh gmNpw22R+HCPSMnzGnLLxMSvGskaDgm+Wrz25WL8+kerIF+wzR3KBLlVW+ABaYlW gd7wWMK05ECY++VOOGQvQaBaT3CsprT+0qq90AUGw6fFippGLApWK2y/W7z2yYt/ P6tLn4lCHqyuL34fKT1LKFZWFh1virW3bOGd9FDwHc7fzRBvdsTjdqO9/iZ6uf1i AoeweoJ2yCTQH9k3tMH3tjIAyd476Zq33LmYp3K4l4u1ywDUQYnkBfYYREvpuZba wNJZ7Cbn4+SGOitqEB25vyYbBBJjwLiAWG/ME6KvN81dymQpqncfr4RHSCnQbEQM GRuVyJbIlXOacE/epUbglhMHz0sEZQTpTeuxYB4rCpvQ5+jjCK6nKus1UEH/5nSw hKJRV8ie2LYv/GMjXndZAMbg5JJmxv3ZRGbPAPpI3OrTZa59jLtmeEk28u/h/Twj j9MoDtaE6cw6rZgkGbvY9295nwHGw3SsxQtzy/9qOci2/dMxxG12jQWZ8TPQWnKu YrlKUsw193aRuTj6aAZsaxT62VQAZ9EATBN+YjO7M8d+f0ahkLghWfmu8lv1N6a/ asygS6CKoOLhOwMmUiVSdXkhPEHI1zcaTJsSFxmlJHNqjjveiT4XueFTvcYoRnCA oHulzOvByqhvdz6fG4rD =kS7Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eBPeVSv2MvetJrBbPoLMRB7Aw3RbaWPob-- From mfwitten@gmail.com Fri Sep 8 08:15:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3E0132EE9 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 08:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BX7RdZLMub6b for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 316A613292E for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id i189so6789115wmf.1 for ; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:date:from:to:message-id; bh=Ty/YTozoOZwfQI4vT+ChO2PCf48MVhogNBpNjIgkfaE=; b=f7VJRYq8lZ3eAvvNrVZMrD/8xL9SDSAlazkeNiNuy5Hu3MFwB9UBvGyLpiLIBbtRZ8 2mtVmD8wOzmiynlNO3+niFKyEDdhSUk3N/eOG7SsIDCV4Onn5ItktUZDVmKJNXJuTjr+ SbtJpHRGgbeyRfs1vhwbgM/2y1gRIQ+PD8PFkynBM+g37agnJGnrsSPTzJYJq/6Oi5FM ZQT+hw6eLyzooNF+KiJcUQTGUss3RYtvZdIjtKBIgjX2ux9sAE3ZCPNbivDve2sqVAxt aTUvIgTYpQGkaW0QY+hO6ZN+p7ixP2B3PNV/1IuN4r2NEUuEcR2w1w5Y2O1cqzuvZPih Lbag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:date:from:to:message-id; bh=Ty/YTozoOZwfQI4vT+ChO2PCf48MVhogNBpNjIgkfaE=; b=S58HkbeDjM1jIr5OOg8iZmV9jikiODaRZyhnc+y4DFwIQ9mI1wSV/mQGDRhhSDMrTc TUFnl4U6wtEO2YUfVuMVxaoZHRzmhlfh6CB8QnQuzEkd0/PU4dyGG6zf734q9lz4PJZC wulbxChDUNabHQEmuFlzC7JQ1nE3+Kh/BH16HRKW3ZgIYoS61gE3Tq6msR/ZtNAyHA1m gnNtYdEiyjRKIjjLnCDuLgUnkFoKBP2t7vfWsFNKJ1nazhQ7f2GErsooMfb8k7EsGWcW 5yXfzOcrlqLTqZ7pV644FqH28mYF78ZrSwN/jBtQUFI+w9okMOGW7VzPZxps754KiBCi xEUA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiEm+2Rh8psSM4IO3L7aEzG7R0o4hAAyXcGt3lKrxmkWN9aU6ZM trJy07VbZsjXGQqK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7CeQF3oiqVKtYCY2yMGHL9C6HWnjfaZr2gY3WVx9rJQ7cgmpPp87Sstf8Z7bAVwPYWPgs7Gg== X-Received: by 10.80.167.131 with SMTP id i3mr2560356edc.173.1504883722400; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 08:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmail.com ([156.67.106.30]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l9sm830099edk.97.2017.09.08.08.15.21 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 08 Sep 2017 08:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 15:10:39 -0000 From: Michael Witten To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 06:35:17 -0700 Subject: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 15:19:57 -0000 Consider the following: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 In the table of contents, the section numbers are presented as links; for instance, the "2.1" in the following is a link that can be clicked (as is the page number, "3"): 2.1 No initial slow start........................................3 --- - Clicking on the "2.1" link directs the browser here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2.1 Alas! There is no such anchor corresponding to the URI fragment; the browser has no idea what to do, and so does nothing. Fortunately, though, the page-number link does work. Sincerely, Michael Witten From nobody Mon Sep 11 06:43:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E3A13308E for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 06:43:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QkpXByabBjBr for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 06:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F290133086 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 06:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Mb31L-1eB0AW37DX-00KeEy; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:55 +0200 To: Michael Witten , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ND+ftFkXUtFGV/F35L5l8envAs7jThLcpKeeEIzGLBTRbA3Ckhi yqRk3Zp1NJzl8MwVESQkcE7qND8gyHXX86ix/035M7LH93cl/ZYjg+dsgIx9nncsdJPxOXm qe9fTh/l6OAwkqZyoknQ9qGwN7GJSuMb264355keaVJxBPk1AicWdJrm2mqCJfyEgRKw8jQ 8tXMTY1qMQBzm2JX5/tFA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:KafsPUCWMhg=:rnOCtRS+C/d6ivJNUiuL1Q fI5pL+xk70T8+2aNQyqJjlqSsfp9iZdv9DebXYKlkt8xPkihS8oEi0lw8D4iM+W4OvIBh3ZzO espRanSk3pAN5gVHd0cJW3nv8l+DRs1GEjdQLI16P4D/HGzFxCOdfKDX3U8r3aTPijMHQ/vtl Y4kH2rYetAlcogl5EJj5FbntiZm3lO/PfHducFlbxfz3gG6YGKEL9G+85VZZIIfJnKZbwrvfO Nw6KdbuRCFeQ8QIUAYiQ//bpd6/vf5YpJFnDz79sOy+icSC4uqQU1nn8vothT4kx+Px0EeAZw STiGWavWtP1fikDGzzn8mqhthfM8/4ZRKap+jqjRqZxtwRxyABtfRExZNWHMsaVAXcPb2PFMy k6ccy9uc0V5SMNBzrBTqMI+9AwHR+AAXrW/taSHcmvL/kxVLgJoSCfOlpEtCYY7kbC/uFPYzT As2Mxn3lcRkaUtqjqvkvqcIk3/lKVEcqsTnrAhN+ksLbSTZ0w1a82DeIKHis1feca1GwZjq4r DmeVgZIPcnBK+KnoqqTeFSoxH2PGrxZw7XkbY83cdT6FxvV427v6ckOJCBsIt6K/4kTTZbmBi 8NJop54LmLx+uNepLYNh9QJ4emdQJNRBqjpfDew+wz6Wc954SuyyUvSUg8pZQv87uYErNpSZV ceH3+5G6ZIC8Uw11fnDXDkh/2lkuW2/7rZEIeJiyZRrQw039BDPUJfyKN7bIfwMonIxKwYm9z y54aj8Jm4ZUHOMy72mm/OIfz88ItzKmWVNx0QwIwPBtui4B+lZaHXKdbdpI/jzbHaPQ1RiyJv 90J1E62zByJpm/wTT8fRFwdg5ei8QJY8fNKwOnhAWRi5dPGHMM= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:43:01 -0000 On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: > Consider the following: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results of the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? > In the table of contents, the section numbers are presented as > links; for instance, the "2.1" in the following is a link that > can be clicked (as is the page number, "3"): > > 2.1 No initial slow start........................................3 > --- - > > Clicking on the "2.1" link directs the browser here: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2.1 > > Alas! There is no such anchor corresponding to the URI fragment; > the browser has no idea what to do, and so does nothing. > ... Navigating to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2 shows that the version number is there, but the section doesn't have a title at all. Likely rfcmarkup doesn't deal with this strange edge case. Best regards, Julian (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ From nobody Mon Sep 11 08:13:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FF8132D91 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xhl7cyN5ZvH4 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x233.google.com (mail-wr0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C09F132F97 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x233.google.com with SMTP id 108so15253303wra.5 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references; bh=i+eUBqqEril9QsATDNO37Ugmvh0FLVY4TKG3jzZIRQk=; b=HWba4IcJgES7xIyfv9RVtmxJq8Jsj9CFyDiMYfPyOs3q69yqRrirgorgiaV0VsFhzb DiCYalL618AHTH12rJxOm8nc6GavURvz4UGU/rES8tgujuvGjbMGfZYchQs3+PdUWyDw BeZ5t+aiJHqdX6mQA+tREp8ipFyeN3mscRCkQlTfJ9vAcwnH6K9iIaTC/uxCebaDioYH SptapD5zCRCu7tHgnAIOVcpcij2Z5gJzF44kwmG1ZlgwHIw1IljsGd0pU2eOa2EbwPjE lpiWSG6HYGE0DigDEPUZJYjxmC/7JhLQNBGCWBvPez/t64Ut7xF0ncfjgCiJPZlwkwSp tD0w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references; bh=i+eUBqqEril9QsATDNO37Ugmvh0FLVY4TKG3jzZIRQk=; b=L9oX1IMBC+qFBroQVfwAwcEEHR74l2KqYnPEWGq+EaKmksa/wNHCUkRQ6TnunPaxF9 Pw+bV76JnHTspbhVF9zTv9vKHdE8H0+FVC/tapQQDQFQjdQAp4pToQAWIW0F25th6oJU aH0zEVZH4HxNV2VqSwGQE32lYhbiJPWTeoi2KgW9VudA0tdFHozK3wY+ZBiaL/6HdcMB 5/V1L+fu128Qgk37dcT13G110LZuWwbSqvEeDpWm0BbUlWbz+gOvpVObUUJGiYNX9k9+ hmPRZen8WtN3SFopWTOswkHiEv0wJhbBwavXnpS000b5/eAsyTMxHgb4k0GQHtwf+55e /2Vg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUj0SisoZt7os7sIF9l9IxYfOeq3J7R5X5+faXdY8Oci2ICXvKZj bELUxfmgS6YrDzbt X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb473W8C8b0Qtv0PQpPn5ytgIWXl8wjAvLtOzksHjaJSKvVoj6nEFbnN/OLf2cgPsF/H5X6IcQ== X-Received: by 10.223.131.65 with SMTP id 59mr9044261wrd.137.1505141949661; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmail.com ([5.79.86.15]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k141sm4090167wmg.15.2017.09.11.07.59.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:56:40 -0000 From: Michael Witten To: Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:13:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:59:14 -0000 On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >> Consider the following: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 > > You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results of > the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? > ... > (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ I couldn't possibly care less. It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >> In the table of contents, the section numbers are presented as >> links; for instance, the "2.1" in the following is a link that >> can be clicked (as is the page number, "3"): >> >> 2.1 No initial slow start........................................3 >> --- - >> >> Clicking on the "2.1" link directs the browser here: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2.1 >> >> Alas! There is no such anchor corresponding to the URI fragment; >> the browser has no idea what to do, and so does nothing. >> ... > > Navigating to > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2 > > shows that the version number is there, but the section doesn't have a > title at all. Likely rfcmarkup doesn't deal with this strange edge case. A the very least, the script should be able to stick a section anchor on the page that is known (as per the ToC) to be associated with that section. Sincerely, Michael Witten From nobody Mon Sep 11 08:19:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2221330B2 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id osrC83zivlVK for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 839E41330AE for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-99-61.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([82.196.99.61]:63766 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1drQUj-0006xE-25; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:19:29 -0700 To: Michael Witten , Julian Reschke References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:19:21 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tOAFDW1EO6wP1Paw8gTnP9LJGFaB2v72R" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 82.196.99.61 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, julian.reschke@gmx.de, mfwitten@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:19:33 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --tOAFDW1EO6wP1Paw8gTnP9LJGFaB2v72R Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9F7b3qpx4UkU60cSEAomaxpixgHR66qhW"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Witten , Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> --9F7b3qpx4UkU60cSEAomaxpixgHR66qhW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: > On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>> Consider the following: >>>=20 >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >> >> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results o= f=20 >> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? >> ... >> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >=20 > I couldn't possibly care less. >=20 > It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and > thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to provide= this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from almos= t 5 decades. >>> In the table of contents, the section numbers are presented as >>> links; for instance, the "2.1" in the following is a link that >>> can be clicked (as is the page number, "3"): >>>=20 >>> 2.1 No initial slow start........................................= 3 >>> --- = - >>>=20 >>> Clicking on the "2.1" link directs the browser here: >>>=20 >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2.1 >>>=20 >>> Alas! There is no such anchor corresponding to the URI fragment; >>> the browser has no idea what to do, and so does nothing. >>> ... >> >> Navigating to >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525#section-2 >> >> shows that the version number is there, but the section doesn't have a= =20 >> title at all. Likely rfcmarkup doesn't deal with this strange edge cas= e. >=20 > A the very least, the script should be able to stick a section anchor > on the page that is known (as per the ToC) to be associated with that > section. Please send code. Henrik --9F7b3qpx4UkU60cSEAomaxpixgHR66qhW-- --tOAFDW1EO6wP1Paw8gTnP9LJGFaB2v72R Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZtql5AAoJEE6bV0uPuxca6sYQAM9U8RVIHIH6ca+A1Nl8vzrL OW8cNYLsZfLhmLGNvesuEG5iGfF/L9CcxJXsHdc2Rjdx1gNn020MzbBdfTHPE7yR Uam2COXHznu6BmTgjTXbovyPp9t/WecTG/snTYTjnIkcSamKA05mDPAj9uh42WoJ 5tHrvTgGDxF/VFg+/dFKx41Z+1zgkh0EFZzPejMd1youdqkyPXhojYzbuvE6OOSm NYi1FhcsOMSID2bYZVDSXyysWfeAnOke2P7iHsKmx3FV6nSLASrRPifloCnBIGkT u/ZdBa1TaaEyIrfx4uT+/sicnpA4HdFIkRvyZXAh4f4AKiRyi+hsHewyaaLqLWvc Gp5+GeqRtuKhXinKPvsL+qWWAhtk+yerqeQ69qFEq69haXnpj42lO+QnOMrmJ5wm 3lzlOTXtmflx/w6k69ujVYZBZBPMMCLjDLUTdhY9/ejibxBWDdobsDcEfBYDxwkP otBf8OZkfOsLn2srWCX7WnKXo5ZigXXqi3v1i7qXMemBfYM1bjgDwoJl69uuM6NZ PWLHIsy0vyBBAV8c9TaODV7ukg3flVN329LSrk/U0WOZaLIfuF2NrT6Rnv9SL5bM amjg0I7j5TqmgIx6oTmrIuLsPMNjp7+G1vT4TNtKUbWaTV++3kxQsQUYSyvaNrYK W9fj+3i1juvf+sfQspCq =7cmQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tOAFDW1EO6wP1Paw8gTnP9LJGFaB2v72R-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 08:24:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F201330CD for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:24:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UhzJSlWIin03 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AA961330CA for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LxcbX-1dOSUr3Xpr-017D5q; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:46 +0200 To: Henrik Levkowetz , Michael Witten Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:gIel/zf8OD8c3iEscdqQb5ZqJJoeHMCAKMSylKeXplMYJSCTPON 1YSQqzWTPmndEtauBwx/Oqtchlf3EgaEfm5U+yaAE9wHFL/Dv7cR+o0B5kg7ybeQ/9LTama PFk/u13X8NhUzudzjor8ph00uFyMrQXSSY1ChsR8yRvP2i9+oFSTCO/dCD7OuCljTtD4W5C YzcsBSyOWqNJKeRyvmh0g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:9ZrfX7adA78=:PGhU3RjTtHrwadk1EMIQZQ 5u7RrGfNWZed0jCQpPU0++H0wOEW4boziOGymfzg1tAvKv8Hji+fi+cOWbCWpkDZoW0diUa3G bnLEwcaeSTX2swqGcK/0+QGDCzqzj5gakhFCcSlhHx9OnSxLJGXuk4UbnwzsOJtfWztCiurko wL9EF/FyYI8sAB/WUICVLeu7WmUGv3LQfeD5EDwlgNyut7BWratpzTD6UrjXmPB/I6HWYPu1n 9Oc4WCfVzOE5W39bTjwwcYP0fsBjT14N4HZ+M5SCbDdu4qNO1Xdj7UKwztVake8ShSZyvFMVa vN93Qp9UOpB2FCLPd/5Eg49F42fpP4t9s7sTQgi4tNr+CupflLEenUY++UwHVjzWMSm5h7Q3J WWr9B1roIu8tpFFn0cMWSuv4lu52eicfMcBnEpLdyPC965y+NfiAH10+idX9KhbKz36ibnlua 3Ll1VvOxeBx13LK7rWKM9zvFCCYVf0SMXKFMZDoxtfDKikPTk9p6Hqq6TbF/0tzPkedSoV6Lu 7GNdgy18FwZnZBATHNn8veLqj4YA3LzYCgXS53LwD0cFwVoz6T5VBIZR9XEqNEg3nn27TiphV GEBLajfUyPwjqKMMDf+NEUDy3oCRaj4pLaX7w715IxlDyKM+6EUBmYZ2cSJGVNz9rib1YHY4o qghtaRCp0jG+MCooJkQEv0bg6U15y9f3GTROsONul+kJIaW+DaG2t7Xs/Rmn94gLmct5GqYeT 5fvSSswnNAK5841BQSHLTecmdeLoYFS6+gAly7AJlST0aEet/19u/56aPcEFJ8CyNnmvDfGhG wBTuGuG9HKc51GOmQTsI5pzrrbOJPUF7Tpdo5xrpviJ9I89wu8= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:24:04 -0000 On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>> Consider the following: >>>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>> >>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results of >>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? >>> ... >>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >> >> I couldn't possibly care less. >> >> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and >> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. > > Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to provide > this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from almost > 5 decades. +1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source code that nobody was paid for. > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Sep 11 10:15:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40408133149 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:07:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GIAdhtUA6SOz for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-f176.google.com (mail-qt0-f176.google.com [209.85.216.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04CDF133143 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-f176.google.com with SMTP id q8so19978514qtb.5 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:07:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references; bh=hB2vDEa4uojryOYThoaUEo0bRUjL3u05/T5EHdaGCLw=; b=KCUlOxNXa4UBRhUUK/XxQ8Ih5xoUpNJzPQtOQSHW2wm2Gpihgl6petxXTe8o1xh7Fn 5c2CZjh6xOeLKjXyuVx5BjJ9XoVscKY4GULFDlNPynXpTbZT44t1KWHiBQP/nxcfSHEe 59pnJcV4WkXnveoRPxTFFBLIQ2fI8hnQ3h8z3TOY3qryLEAwJZdlx6oFTJNFPKRrwZYK nzSGR2pZ7G8Aw1SaMrFJPGKAMPwqKep1W9iGnLUWbSVKWgy1tkL9BecHHiaCIWsQFdb8 7bJIRqg+0GsW5XEmPDpZrfqOebkCq8V082B5f22NF5masNTNVZR9ALbDsgTmM95WT/Uk zgUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiU+/7YhzEwtysgnXp0n4HXCQwdqgvsRbEoauJ6laRkVF+kPlE5 /q51dM2fBhZwqg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCyTQINCX8TF+VD9hgwpJDoHiAxIeWHG9U1EF+0s/vIf7w63G4UjGVEy9FqaOUJwdqnNK72Mw== X-Received: by 10.200.57.29 with SMTP id s29mr17136149qtb.309.1505146034965; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmail.com (wholesomeserver.media.mit.edu. [18.85.22.204]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n66sm6025362qka.47.2017.09.11.09.07.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:02:32 -0000 From: Michael Witten , To: Henrik Levkowetz Cc: Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:15:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:07:17 -0000 By the way, Google stuffed your email into the Spam folder, and explained that this was done because your email doesn't meet its standard for a sending party: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?hl=en#authentication I hope that's helpful information. On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:19:21 +0200, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>> Consider the following: >>>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>> >>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results of >>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? >>> ... >>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >> >> I couldn't possibly care less. >> >> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and >> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. > > Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to provide > this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from > almost 5 decades. I did acknowledge your efforts; I did so by contributing my own efforts: A report about a problem. I didn't have to make a report; I could have just not cared. How about acknowledging *my* contribution? I'm trying to help you make a better tool, but you want me to rub your feet, too, or something. >> [At] the very least, the script should be able to stick a section anchor >> on the page that is known (as per the ToC) to be associated with that >> section. > > Please send code. According to your own horn tooting, *you* are the guy who knows what's going on here; *you* are the guy who *already* knows what kind of fix is needed. It makes absolutely *no* sense for you to throw the burden back in my face; I'm a person who knows only that something isn't working. If you don't have the time, or you are ill, or you've moved on in life to tackle other projects, then SAY SO; ask me kindly to look into the code, or pass it off to someone who *can* provide code. I mean... if you're no longer maintaining this script, surely you've taken steps to pass on the torch to someone who is ready and willing... right? RIGHT? Sincerely, Michael Witten From nobody Mon Sep 11 10:16:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0651D133140 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L8nrejBRpWQO for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E9221330DE for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id q8so20021646qtb.5 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references; bh=rxj9uOUAtCGuZOygbLK8oGFd54TrddNNyDjyOmMEK0M=; b=Uc1Ulb4i2PNvLXNfNGGSaX34am2x90VH446k6cEsTXwHfVdql5j4bBMKT95RPqXgNc 20gLFJkiXrw00PfczqKTR4aYoCp1rCEYg9HdT4WWGoM3nclRTvh6Tcl3Qq2a+tNOqhnk Ft64b0DjXzK8zrvfWSYXRoAzIo4HAPMzTQe4YdEF3XL1tP8Q0+kqVbFY9zzwFKoTkc/T w/zrh4M6aqeyzhfKlts5/Wgv8upYk1dIQAdRHyvd6LtnjpWBLdJgFyT7mgb4JB6nCRLc 62lpQyExDjiN5Jg7VAQ4XtykwaC+8UwDUBIBBEhTLXee6w0LpuIvwecg6oZyAnL49uKT EEaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references; bh=rxj9uOUAtCGuZOygbLK8oGFd54TrddNNyDjyOmMEK0M=; b=K8t4kqf+GLKVcLK83s984a1pIyYbYTu/McPwoqEeghzJFi9LSjKU3wXismCVLpbJsD cRk8zxjPybR8Rp8y/bmAWU0sRi+unnI3avbRpzO1SF9hfh8FtRpthq7rj7jtHX44/WhW aLSCoWloZCIUXRi/5dj9yevt/ri8JP2VXWiKv6pVot4a03gJjnq9xOMPxM8efOrgyxGD lWaS0T0fdpJ6lgLufdqDFYOnIE4ciY1UahBRKdA029lwV0kUE4T7c3ncMR6kRz4R7Tj3 SFBfHSRvxn+KP3CtssjmIO3JYJbObka+BRtOc5uTrdo0eVNK1mhRFAG8LgfdY6YJ+77m NVeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhklKOoYnTUE5wBpWs7K97LePMc0GKPowP1gUvpCnTGJNPj91Ib pEgCrk9ia/PIzQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBFI+Ex6oAvu+CsEURoFLsyPRKw+raCBSnwQOt61xLRYQhKvHEukOUIBf4Am9rEXEqrA+2f5A== X-Received: by 10.237.63.124 with SMTP id q57mr17365608qtf.23.1505146430425; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmail.com (wholesomeserver.media.mit.edu. [18.85.22.204]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z50sm6912047qta.19.2017.09.11.09.13.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:09:42 -0000 From: Michael Witten To: Julian Reschke Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:16:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:13:54 -0000 On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>> Consider the following: >>>>> >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>>> >>>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results of >>>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? >>>> ... >>>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >>> >>> I couldn't possibly care less. >>> >>> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and >>> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >> >> Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to provide >> this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from almost >> 5 decades. > >+1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source code >that nobody was paid for. I've been involved in *many* best-effort open-source projects. You're doing it wrong. Your reply set the tone, my friend; maybe there's a language barrier. Sincerely, Michael Witten From nobody Mon Sep 11 10:17:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086D5133189 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:17:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mhp1fErvHmkb for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0C92132D97 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-99-61.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([82.196.99.61]:49156 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1drSKx-0004oV-BZ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:17:32 -0700 To: Michael Witten , Julian Reschke References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:17:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QpSMvaHvbJiFPQWAKjhn5TWpuFegRsrqw" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 82.196.99.61 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, julian.reschke@gmx.de, mfwitten@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:17:35 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QpSMvaHvbJiFPQWAKjhn5TWpuFegRsrqw Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3jp5XrIpWrHwWVLnuaPXxeK9GVs0J3Vkj"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Witten , Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> --3jp5XrIpWrHwWVLnuaPXxeK9GVs0J3Vkj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, Inline: On 2017-09-11 18:09, Michael Witten wrote: > On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >> On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>> On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>> Consider the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>>>> >>>>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the result= s of >>>>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text file= s? >>>>> ... >>>>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >>>> >>>> I couldn't possibly care less. >>>> >>>> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and= >>>> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >>>=20 >>> Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to pro= vide >>> this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from a= lmost >>> 5 decades. >> >>+1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source code= =20 >>that nobody was paid for. >=20 > I've been involved in *many* best-effort open-source projects. > You're doing it wrong. >=20 > Your reply set the tone, my friend; maybe there's a language barrier. Good point. Your subject line was: "RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless." Thank you for your contribution. Henrik --3jp5XrIpWrHwWVLnuaPXxeK9GVs0J3Vkj-- --QpSMvaHvbJiFPQWAKjhn5TWpuFegRsrqw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZtsUjAAoJEE6bV0uPuxcaqukQAI7Qf8M3o/q5o779oPH+WuCj R8sfxVRmvP/oYaHlCD3rUMTCgW6NZd9UNasQrB1lsnAN7ufJuZWbQP006RW5TduZ ILT2ucgKP2GDSvSuqzzJcWYZYJNajF/OSI0UcWCmSNuTJas2kPpjx1Asq0UFXjn/ +GNBaMasbPmo1rqw3Q+iAFUpGfhON06IWGVw04XYCkFma7RFuEXLDROuFISCfHnO iPDfo0eUlJkH6mdNl9s70UKPXavhbCQBQgHZOepAOIHVd4AVpErH2fFs61uSNhEd wwmq3KvkD29C4NcFVtAJ2l55CFcJFidIymQnqSO/Vvbd3GhfiCm4JhOmT9OVRlLt qms/u6oPT6l7Ccq5Oq7SqKKn3uaTdsKE2C0MRnhZiq0jM7Vnq8l/Vq2awzfNSXhS Jxcr6uxVrU1u47OhX/G2SO/Zwd6cV/uwTT7DAGepMGbs3wGxYY+/ckZEje1hzWUm h0eGaBVlGSPgf1w8Apfp/sTwcg7mBA+JHGk8I2BKyDqg9vJKT0f17/JNDIso2xDE p+tl/BZZMEY7DE+h5A43KTj1fODm8A2/2/CAYyR4ljNYxG0v2YOMtLOLO8WDjo5/ diIbh9AjinraBjeHS+59OkK9azKwY/hWp9znCVKIXdufVKgxEvNWUac5TPlOJF9F OM5rzBAJRSFkf5OomUKD =+Y5h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QpSMvaHvbJiFPQWAKjhn5TWpuFegRsrqw-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 10:33:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9A513318E for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:33:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GSaMQpNyfbxD for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C75C6133182 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-99-61.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([82.196.99.61]:49430 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1drSaV-0007TE-Ob; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:33:36 -0700 To: Julian Reschke References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:33:27 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BVIlTTnEMfGOCi3P93W0WWO5cjxCj6bTK" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 82.196.99.61 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, julian.reschke@gmx.de X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:33:38 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --BVIlTTnEMfGOCi3P93W0WWO5cjxCj6bTK Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RunKnXlKrVaQFUt8FCGiRdd6idJFskJji"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Julian Reschke Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> --RunKnXlKrVaQFUt8FCGiRdd6idJFskJji Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've just discarded a nastier trolling reply from to= the list, and blocked him from subscribing. Please don't send any replie= s to his earlier messages. Regards, Henrik On 2017-09-11 19:17, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Michael, >=20 > Inline: >=20 > On 2017-09-11 18:09, Michael Witten wrote: >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>> On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>>> Consider the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>>>>> >>>>>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the resul= ts of >>>>>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text fil= es? >>>>>> ... >>>>>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >>>>> >>>>> I couldn't possibly care less. >>>>> >>>>> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, an= d >>>>> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to pr= ovide >>>> this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from = almost >>>> 5 decades. >>> >>>+1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source cod= e=20 >>>that nobody was paid for. >>=20 >> I've been involved in *many* best-effort open-source projects. >> You're doing it wrong. >>=20 >> Your reply set the tone, my friend; maybe there's a language barrier. >=20 > Good point. Your subject line was: >=20 > "RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless." >=20 > Thank you for your contribution. >=20 >=20 > Henrik >=20 >=20 >=20 --RunKnXlKrVaQFUt8FCGiRdd6idJFskJji-- --BVIlTTnEMfGOCi3P93W0WWO5cjxCj6bTK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZtsjnAAoJEE6bV0uPuxcaoaEQAKUYvQuY29F957R87LlfhBwk 4A2RufzqNPK+Vj9wdyqGSoWWBvRzH0uyTqYruabkzzIrQ4qIwqfpvruOocMHUwOc Zu7KtZft50FhOXl43TkQ9UPurJo3B6Xlk7l/S9xQclkeND9idmWxuBwOFYUi8AE7 XU6T428UCAchFEaqC1NUH0hmsArgJCzJjM6ynPBBxC44Vlt2qKk0pumZPJ5KT7nO 7LtvWQTtpKokocBhigoTrvAyaFDq/ejwapkbrpnIUXT0XfEHDHpHWs7dr1a5lp0J CPmvFg+ubEPtZULoUcl5lrdipvQvXYyrWiZxHgNB9UvOMBWm23upGZcRoqC1U/Xy kc8iePzmPYSvs3F66ei39bjCm/8xeCxOzEvR0K2+utJfPqz6nPqgoEQXA1QE8QnI vLPrNsc0PEprAZZp4t/ENTwLqVSIYZLXnd4oJOkXiYi0zeM1kPw3/Pmi7roZlq4Z Szp68g/lB3h788LMvnnGkQg/sgr8O+afuyilt2HD2tjdaodlHLvZNQKb2qAUM/es qs5zuKbyJvclg2eZdGDmOT5p0AtqUMyYuL1dPRnp3CEQf+LwXV+jO/YWK+LX3GZ5 daKyJ/nf7RnYARm3+MMsNW2n3lwges2vquhdV0/Kw1PS7hXTOTnnxuqrR9ykuhFC 29WthJLyndu6eW3M6pQV =yLwn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BVIlTTnEMfGOCi3P93W0WWO5cjxCj6bTK-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 12:04:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3DE1331DD for ; 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Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.8] ([77.127.57.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m9sm6427320wrf.51.2017.09.11.12.04.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BA4ADD70-1BB0-4F01-9B33-03DF5EC6A27E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:04:05 +0300 In-Reply-To: <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , Julian Reschke , tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:04:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BA4ADD70-1BB0-4F01-9B33-03DF5EC6A27E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Good! I wan=E2=80=99t planning to reply, as the saying goes: "don=E2=80=99= t feed the trolls=E2=80=9D. Bob > On Sep 11, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 > I've just discarded a nastier trolling reply from = to > the list, and blocked him from subscribing. Please don't send any = replies > to his earlier messages. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Henrik >=20 > On 2017-09-11 19:17, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Hi Michael, >>=20 >> Inline: >>=20 >> On 2017-09-11 18:09, Michael Witten wrote: >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>> On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>>> On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>>>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>>>> Consider the following: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the = results of >>>>>>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text = files? >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I couldn't possibly care less. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, = and >>>>>> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to = provide >>>>> this service and make the code work with different RFC formats = from almost >>>>> 5 decades. >>>>=20 >>>> +1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source = code >>>> that nobody was paid for. >>>=20 >>> I've been involved in *many* best-effort open-source projects. >>> You're doing it wrong. >>>=20 >>> Your reply set the tone, my friend; maybe there's a language = barrier. >>=20 >> Good point. Your subject line was: >>=20 >> "RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless." >>=20 >> Thank you for your contribution. >>=20 >>=20 >> Henrik >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > -- > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at = http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at = http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues or > send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_BA4ADD70-1BB0-4F01-9B33-03DF5EC6A27E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZtt4lAAoJEK7rdBF357uogDkH/A+tOjJh5nMy8Nb1OJ1HQRuQ vsKT9M83NmBBzX1JMH2VdlBkcfmaBZCYb1Pa+4SqUjZuyP1JhLHO95rMCGzKQ035 i3vSysXg9KJCWeBZ83V69S0eaczL/8PrDrz8GfEtOSiBLAzjgp6sudH7dZAktVBA VzbGUPGub1jYT3VOXYDE1hcyvMuEumdEnWx9Qzs3GwH9bqWBE4QjtZnqLTulGdou 9W2XzLKahKWfHOL3ekcME7yVL0b6ojnQMGgbpXWo5X+SjbOLz/euA1u/2wNtk3zG P26WuYQHhmUOgVwsbzsOhfBSN1b7jwREea1ooHbO8inLcA5CGN9YWGNM5XEwQww= =5xiB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_BA4ADD70-1BB0-4F01-9B33-03DF5EC6A27E-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 13:22:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605AF13219F for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z_cVG9EeWUbL for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22a.google.com (mail-pg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2CDF129A89 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id d8so17295051pgt.4 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1UBAvtYtTaX2qrLpMj1mP/+73vByVhkn74xUz1fYKrI=; b=T5iTWYKrGUhqaK6inFogON2JDKesvJdxmlmipIsR8d+6yC7wrC+FVz6vI+6Lwli9uE D3tXj2FWgY2a78XkPgdzEWMe+wcFrBAZQcS7ifHNT2RLrWG4HopU2vkDBMtFwwRjtNu5 9GyP9FQ3z13ihSN6P5u8BWL9i+QdGJGENFPnsFPalUAhter12rPpKqa/VeeD7+iYBQ+d 6v73UgSEq2DfJpJA1DYa2n+uRXE9kdPDt5so9XH+Vwqs6WrnuhUJl4D+Ko/1gRJijijp aRN4zGTPr0DMl5ipkWrU0JT3LcCU+LMhZSyglBh+K9szPCrP+pD3BCG0tqmMK3+4uFxw vWgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1UBAvtYtTaX2qrLpMj1mP/+73vByVhkn74xUz1fYKrI=; b=Vqkh91GeH+iZsqOtO8M8ishaiPTKrrDebkRWe6THLBwmCFHtRKMNsz8GSTFAuA1gBj 1TExNjhXkftpdqC4O5vtSBNjhN1wX76HmBJGlRGJ8PTDLkF60TBG6I6+oZEiHAMP7xtR V9bKtsNfH25HpSEQ3RbkSeav67JP+kwAlyKdgL/bpE+tBBPwW0SiK9lKLoefNWsFsniS Hf41QKZjMLZalIXNDC/DX1Gggg1dVfUohq4F4fR/BQv7m8igCz6vwII2n72Pf3ZpqDVN waDctmSm6HejTTK1Y5WVNtJ+KiYCmqh2RwsDGAwe4mzeZjJJoQb+HLfP0N5WdOfg/ZjQ MBHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi9IC3gIMpNuiPJCuOvs9D/z0lzB+jkYQZfIz+tGLdZIxksM6LC Ye5rXWEoaV5YpKMQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb67/9B1seFQR+E1i4/25c5XYIK4pWjMOqL0jN19c0uyT0kwm5Vlr4MJEhjHtgP6zUTUmrfJeg== X-Received: by 10.98.23.10 with SMTP id 10mr13146334pfx.339.1505161345992; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c85sm16550261pfj.118.2017.09.11.13.22.23 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:22:24 -0700 (PDT) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <21223895-35a1-c2ad-1887-991e14f67ebd@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 08:22:22 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:22:28 -0000 Henrik, be assured yet again that most of us are extremely appreciative of your efforts; thank you again. FYI, ironically the table of contents in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 shows another case where the heuristic fails. But the relevant links work: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855#section-2.1.1 Especially: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855#page-3 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855#page-8 Regards Brian On 12/09/2017 05:33, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > I've just discarded a nastier trolling reply from to > the list, and blocked him from subscribing. Please don't send any replies > to his earlier messages. > > Regards, > > Henrik > > On 2017-09-11 19:17, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Hi Michael, >> >> Inline: >> >> On 2017-09-11 18:09, Michael Witten wrote: >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>> On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>>> On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>>>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>>>> Consider the following: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the results of >>>>>>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text files? >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >>>>>> >>>>>> I couldn't possibly care less. >>>>>> >>>>>> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, and >>>>>> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to provide >>>>> this service and make the code work with different RFC formats from almost >>>>> 5 decades. >>>> >>>> +1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source code >>>> that nobody was paid for. >>> >>> I've been involved in *many* best-effort open-source projects. >>> You're doing it wrong. >>> >>> Your reply set the tone, my friend; maybe there's a language barrier. >> >> Good point. Your subject line was: >> >> "RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless." >> >> Thank you for your contribution. >> >> >> Henrik >> >> >> > > > From nobody Tue Sep 12 02:24:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D64513301E for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:24:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wanrqjb1aoOT for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28D7D133011 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-99-61.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([82.196.99.61]:63959 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1drhQG-0001Us-0h; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:24:03 -0700 To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> <21223895-35a1-c2ad-1887-991e14f67ebd@gmail.com> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <9646a6a4-55e8-39bd-a0f8-07ab44cac352@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:23:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <21223895-35a1-c2ad-1887-991e14f67ebd@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="46CUnukD5Iwi2baaB2XDfuWjQVf5bUnmU" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 82.196.99.61 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:24:05 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --46CUnukD5Iwi2baaB2XDfuWjQVf5bUnmU Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="j3bDcxUMvGTnG0GQ0kRDOSfwrnb9n2M6O"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <9646a6a4-55e8-39bd-a0f8-07ab44cac352@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless. References: <03aaf075f6c84e78ad610a0fcd8f8656-mfwitten@gmail.com> <1d775d0d5fd74044b78a0d9eb638aafd-mfwitten@gmail.com> <49239f16-6cda-4ece-b2bb-476851bffbb3@gmx.de> <638ac097e8d94d828fe316e78b339fd1-mfwitten@gmail.com> <3837f45f-8ce4-ae6f-3428-d22facdee6f5@levkowetz.com> <4fecf435-6967-862e-68c0-27d62b56f36c@levkowetz.com> <21223895-35a1-c2ad-1887-991e14f67ebd@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <21223895-35a1-c2ad-1887-991e14f67ebd@gmail.com> --j3bDcxUMvGTnG0GQ0kRDOSfwrnb9n2M6O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian, On 2017-09-11 22:22, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Henrik, be assured yet again that most of us are extremely appreciative= > of your efforts; thank you again. I know, and thank you for making it explicit :-) > FYI, ironically the table of contents in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf= c1855 > shows another case where the heuristic fails. Right. But I just had an idea of a possible heuristic that might catch this case. > But the relevant links work: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855#section-2.1.1 > Especially: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855#page-3 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855#page-8 :-) Best regards, Henrik > Regards > Brian >=20 > On 12/09/2017 05:33, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> I've just discarded a nastier trolling reply from = to >> the list, and blocked him from subscribing. Please don't send any rep= lies >> to his earlier messages. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Henrik >>=20 >> On 2017-09-11 19:17, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> Inline: >>> >>> On 2017-09-11 18:09, Michael Witten wrote: >>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:23:44 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>> On 2017-09-11 17:19, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>>>> On 2017-09-11 16:56, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:42:53 +0200, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2017-09-08 17:10, Michael Witten wrote: >>>>>>>>> Consider the following: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2525 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You understand that the HTML versions published here are the res= ults of >>>>>>>> the script "rfcmarkup" (*) processing the published plain text f= iles? >>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>> (*) https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I couldn't possibly care less. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It doesn't work; somebody who knows the toolchain should fix it, = and >>>>>>> thereby take pride in making a tool that is actually functional. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your kind acknowledgement of my pro-bono efforts to = provide >>>>>> this service and make the code work with different RFC formats fro= m almost >>>>>> 5 decades. >>>>> >>>>> +1 - Michael, please be aware that this is best-effort open-source = code=20 >>>>> that nobody was paid for. >>>> >>>> I've been involved in *many* best-effort open-source projects. >>>> You're doing it wrong. >>>> >>>> Your reply set the tone, my friend; maybe there's a language barrier= =2E >>> >>> Good point. Your subject line was: >>> >>> "RFCs lack section anchors; links are useless." >>> >>> Thank you for your contribution. >>> >>> >>> Henrik >>> >>> >>> >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 --j3bDcxUMvGTnG0GQ0kRDOSfwrnb9n2M6O-- --46CUnukD5Iwi2baaB2XDfuWjQVf5bUnmU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZt6enAAoJEE6bV0uPuxca2XMP/0PXNXojwefrDGMiGkO2e2db 1DL25QlY92Jna/qONLOfVVwPaRE6cWp7XpFdOOXgz0jzXvk97U7JhdNfZq1SaUsz 2OFbeQTr/KGKdpHpCKdrXqhg3icS0K0UUHBKSzDzpOzDmE9lELXp4kZ+ad8i4IOi ENQxzTDc9FGX7gHjx7O6QkrX86LyQ677bhiHxC+4pzTJHQM3fcr0tQvxelgO+XLN 8w22CjII0RA/zj5qb9BVBu93PkeZJVqinK2CN/z1fueZKb+d16hW0OLWIiQlXZLG e9F+9TLIOTWmEy+cTxISWb7irx5E2B2GWH8ewBRy4NwxSQRl32075bAwzGUNkUoQ q1CxDZI31/xXhBx2SM/v+BQkZX8NR4VXuBJ+zAQi9N19p3ZQrp9QqDkSJQrPOH0H KHXi2ypweXPWM4mxgaNmrhDPkzgAihlPpijAzO6ws25QpaxvZZaNFQQTahqQAAPA P5vv/E+evC0BGcCHserPhCD/BAb5ehZ57wS+p8F3lWHcQLAOZRT2NfNanbRT5BdQ LYuPSXRg6/iMJpBjl/4twcQW3EbgnwlxNnqJseWITBNxQpCFgyHh4XZ3hig+I8cH R7FzqtU+qkjgOkJBMk+wWoOHbAwAc4WKvWpS9ILisz1fAHIuJs5eiJE3PQRmTZlp v5OR+Js+W34n0tHF7XEH =oKKf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --46CUnukD5Iwi2baaB2XDfuWjQVf5bUnmU-- From nobody Thu Sep 14 13:18:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30ED5126E64 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i1WetwmOHXrr for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0605132335 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id v36so3544352ioi.1 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=U7CAsejN3fDZnyS2/pDcBn7lou4r7hlXeWXSZ6q7wfU=; b=L+rNn51mkO01zEkays7chMtyEUv9l79tQPo43In7U7NJNCMB/IxLnzUyjOKuheDeZD OxsLRUe/BnrQvLtwVmdZ8paHyAHTg3B7S6vsGnVEz0XT2y1/j2EHcb9Yvv5CmC9cUkzC 8MZEfQ2oiKo4grLz3DMYy4tcvJPDPScjPDArY61F75Dgji8rVq+XU+08tZvAgt/TN6O1 xHvutEb3PVo86aVmbOx4hoI2ewRVnvj106iA/hGRhvEThC29hHtMcfea6pV0FSXGwgE7 ++I4i4dkbEz+zUyhTXyvP+4NFFA92Guu74nYADfu3j4UEnQ3RDhY2F6olMyZIlhSzq/4 sN5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=U7CAsejN3fDZnyS2/pDcBn7lou4r7hlXeWXSZ6q7wfU=; b=bRjrfpoXWFDz0v3idFUTcHcJBOCTPVD6xnEjwYma5NWsbnBYmG0xqrBTtCEAWiO45K zNu5aLCz86cHnX0rFZSznvXLy+2tC0fAFejB/Q2TsvogP1Pf8TO9Dzw/hbywNpzEOc1E N0UByx9XUdrbJKf7JDELpVXnMZCLH3gx/C86fCs3rH4Me0jaAQ1AyO7IAui5PZHC7BAc ajiGNOuZmFb7/VrpzzBiPUMSSj9bJhQ3frRD/JHAvhRcacxLwzDXbv4c3uK2s7H4PuTC MS6Jsy0LzsuxXtKUxEua6ffTsfYRVIS2nJ81X80GOCeHBpTKVCwswJz2uJA94s7Z1fDC vs0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjSO97QD9uEHD8oacipbat+JQqyOJkB1WBT/CHdDM1TPDs4e/zw qQq0KqpWAouu7D2yH/+pnu496hJ2KwedV2nZ2Q9jMQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDxPGPFPxb0TTg1Krd4th5zHGzjklrb/Kt8ISgBIi/Bsg7c+PkR+WI0q1jUAp3Al/q2A6rZJyGnrwml4gLNYZ4= X-Received: by 10.202.117.9 with SMTP id q9mr158791oic.25.1505420318087; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.168.74.137 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.168.74.137 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:18:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimberly Shafer Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:18:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1134f9c64c1d4a05592bfb72" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Loginmgr-0.18 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 20:18:40 -0000 --001a1134f9c64c1d4a05592bfb72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Kimberly Shafer --001a1134f9c64c1d4a05592bfb72 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"


Kimberly Shafer
--001a1134f9c64c1d4a05592bfb72-- From nobody Tue Sep 19 13:48:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCF2132D42 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:48:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t8Hb2nOl8sgV for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com (mail-pg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82EF21329B5 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j16so482524pga.1 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language; bh=Hf7HOwk1C7JLCQjKz6YZ/dtvlHD/QkZFwGABo5ipoXc=; b=guAJ5vlpSUfAeRa3vkB4auSy2BvA49eYzQz95jx/Kgn8VdaW4gtJq8cCQzGlh9ixS5 22DA9ncg58v4hHVuGCGTS8NPrXa0gMhIAP+YZQmZXHF9VTH5ieaaD62QK4olFKsPL7So GYbE7+F/QQE2aAcxqKmuTf7S9S7DS8vGNFNRmds0Vyg1HN3dlBfVVYXBnKXjFpg+jakZ BLHNSkFjM7nB1QkrVf2S9dOsmB8QHdlUzHf6hI4YornwgHeNpnQP7QtLGFHeHZ4FMbI4 DS/8MEiVC8e7FmHEtgZJYusFRP0qGHrKs+pK+RJrCQuDMB6ozewAVBt2vMmaCns5Cmtb WO4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-language; bh=Hf7HOwk1C7JLCQjKz6YZ/dtvlHD/QkZFwGABo5ipoXc=; b=WqkxFyXcOCMLNDMx1hSsm3eeyik2ATZ9NwHLnBJs4HgptEHldjtmHYfGWsgYBK0lbg IhCtK6H/TnkIy7FeKkjz2JjzPtpLtzWPze5V0nzZ45NsyP5JokQ9kn7WDWhiQrpEA+kv lDHyCowUZEPnsntN/uCDFdKFQK8Q0XZGLx4S2PkUszLH/j/DimqSxVni7ntZd2bKXz1r NTvUwYNzWeoRMl90mPyDCj8nwsKDiOQ7/lmgpwFL7d/vXhra1B8M4IVXQAB2nJ0V101I hYM8nYJB2pK64Gd32bDpdOw+qUTVDhRMe3gXqR4GrxWQfAwSDxlHHwTRGvUdM4iPpydV UXHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUisNJYIuVx4+fuemoIOku6ymY2xZadw2bKBODVlqmH1Q/BVXIJs PtMUFz7yoos7D29pqxn7mWd84A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAvjV+Gr0xiKxJVzbYvcKKK6YW2QUfsN5CzsoU9umPrrquxc15Giznw/mRv8MmSt+I+t+9n2Q== X-Received: by 10.84.235.135 with SMTP id p7mr2250518plk.181.1505854120818; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n68sm4194600pga.39.2017.09.19.13.48.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <935d04f3-7605-dcd2-7366-d7e3f522e0e0@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:48:40 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7068FF132DF33B6E25493273" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcdiff X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 20:48:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7068FF132DF33B6E25493273 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rfcdiff can't quite deal with BOMs apparently - see screenshot attached. The file on the left is the original RFC; on the right is a BOM-free version. I'm sending it here because there may be a number of tools with a similar problem. Regards Brian --------------7068FF132DF33B6E25493273 Content-Type: image/png; name="BOMdiffs.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BOMdiffs.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAABVYAAAMACAIAAABAXKuVAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1B AACxjwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsMAAA7DAcdvqGQAAL4TSURBVHhe7N0JnBxF2fjx5fX1QlG8 XkHEV42Jf0/gVV9fFU9Eo7IoiCIqIHKD4Q6IB4abQMAAm4SEI1zhCkcICSQkJEAgBBIIRyDk IpyegICiImr+VV3V1XX2zOzO7O5M/76fR+yurq6q7pnp7np2dtPV1TWqmbHeqPWcOHq9/9Dx H3a8oohXvOIYGf/px3+KeKWKY0288lVBvFrGq159nBOv0fFqE6893o7XqFjfixNe+7ogXn/C +kWcqGMDGa+z4w0mTnq9iTc6sYGIDUWMduJNo98QxptPfqMXb9GxoY5TZLy1iDepeJsdY0S8 +b8i8Za3mzhVx0Yy3urFxiJOE/E2E+9w4r9EbCLi1168/Z1ejH37pmM3CuNdMjbWcbqM/y7i HSrebeIMFZuIeE8Q7z3jnTLOdGLImZt68b4eFe8yMdSJ/5Yx7r+H+fHu99sxXsf/G/8eLz4g 470yJuj4YBFDTHxIxVkq3ifiw5EY+pGJfnx04jAvNpuk4v12bF7E/9v8bBlb+PEBEf9j4hwd Hzvng158XMaHPn6uE5/Q8WET/yviPBMfUfFJLyZ/9P+C+JSMzYo4X8anZWxux2dMXLCFiS2d +B8Rn1VxYRGfu/BjYXxexEUft+MLOj5RxMWf+GIR/6viS15M+eRWsfjylP/TcYmOrWV8youv 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QEFcO9PxwtmZ for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 14:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 703B11321A4 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 14:10:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8JLAQgR004245; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:10:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0135.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0135.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3xxbBB5jwgzDMBH; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:10:26 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <175CFE36-A267-42CF-98FE-50855E355DD6@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:10:26 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 527548225.927063-03b41ec7fc259df52fcbfec3901b8236 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1403EA2F-C81D-44FF-B644-AD2C49FA6832@tzi.org> References: <935d04f3-7605-dcd2-7366-d7e3f522e0e0@gmail.com> <175CFE36-A267-42CF-98FE-50855E355DD6@tzi.org> To: Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcdiff X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 21:10:32 -0000 On Sep 19, 2017, at 23:03, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > (Which was too big.) What I wanted to say: On Sep 19, 2017, at 22:48, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > rfcdiff can't quite deal with BOMs apparently - see screenshot = attached. > The file on the left is the original RFC; on the right is a BOM-free = version. This is maybe less of a BOM problem than a problem with UTF-8 support. Below is 8187 with the pound sign (U+00A3) changed into a currency sign = (U+00A4) (and the comment changed nonsensically for more fun). The differ finds that the first byte hasn=E2=80=99t changed, but the = second byte has, so it inserts a color marker between the two bytes of = the character=E2=80=A6 See http://www.tzi.org/~cabo/rfcdiff-utf-8-issue.png Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Sep 19 16:47:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE29133011 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:47:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1VoseyRdI6Zm for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x231.google.com (mail-pg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 358BA132944 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x231.google.com with SMTP id m30so695003pgn.6 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:47:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KtaCZ5ssmXL2ZiTpWKY8Q7na19ohpA8ZvvNemoxqq0A=; b=VyDYtP4/exInsIdkyv33fAstHMUK/Nov9MocFzUjPlihSYKg177Cpp2WV5XDv/q+2n EwPQncrAm7FFDkftNY9zIHCdkUeI/noIszamegG0jLak3Mg1xgh7ciju0I+kXm64AK6V 3+d92BcGGWWAoga5J/JAfBfsRyTo/QbRqK37U1jF95v8s1n0Nfg2+tqXROOQgu9wuHc1 fJASR2yoPhVWfrvCzefLw0dq7QmShWcMGgoRmKEXrDmvNABx7ud394xvIsU9v3OKkTID ImVjBwaHe5iktmj5vxWDSPiOINcLbGRU5+OwEuC4OapoOjNeTd+AFmddjL7jvMtNKked NBKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KtaCZ5ssmXL2ZiTpWKY8Q7na19ohpA8ZvvNemoxqq0A=; b=Hc6pMQowWoyJCR2wOD7flY+Fg5oh37jnvLDOKjq5mJI7CDC2dYUaQODDpEG9cWiuN+ wHhyNaTd/A6vRNGvmNzORAH5DPqAtDz4Ky3StrQ4qrrXrO9a3r5pTb/OpOrCUL1sLH2G Oq9nW4iP7gmr69rmZ6DzyeNGxWeb9zu+DFO3ude3T5UQjNSmpjInJz8dEItT+MqfXQ9A ZygJEC8S0OK3z/ZEx5L+JaRB0mGgpYhfsb232cbqx43wn+kh9WS+c5K8yOBTH8zdpIIH bogMUN8jbZxGrLXKCx+nTbTUTQmK7YmKsI+eCGsb04FYaCobCgZOeKRTQP0ZKcfkDprJ 9pCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi0Fd7sSWuLCysagf5QFEmbnN5LWlReI5jD2o3aQjaKtYrGV9vn Eb3a+kKhPJLlsFj/l0RHmRJ5fg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDsep6hnotRgGe+haEEm08EmIK0cWdk5QHSBWVHSMSeWgR1bbdGqmIpWxS9oqvMgMJxV2BBnw== X-Received: by 10.99.186.91 with SMTP id l27mr259508pgu.279.1505864828442; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l25sm4671647pfj.141.2017.09.19.16.47.05 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Sep 2017 16:47:06 -0700 (PDT) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <935d04f3-7605-dcd2-7366-d7e3f522e0e0@gmail.com> <175CFE36-A267-42CF-98FE-50855E355DD6@tzi.org> <1403EA2F-C81D-44FF-B644-AD2C49FA6832@tzi.org> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:47:09 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1403EA2F-C81D-44FF-B644-AD2C49FA6832@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 23:47:11 -0000 Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it does include the BOM. If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western", the document starts with =C3=AF=C2=BB=C2=BF (which is the IS8859 interpre= tation of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the =C2=A3, =E2=82=AC= and =C3=BC do not display correctly. The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters
is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Internet
Explorer.

Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.

Regards
   Brian


From nobody Tue Sep 19 18:30:54 2017
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From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley)
To: Brian E Carpenter 
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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Brian E Carpenter  writes:
> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
> does include the BOM.
>
> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
> the document starts with [...] (which is the IS8859 interpretation
> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the [pound], [euro] and
> [u-umlaut] do not display correctly.
>
> The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters
> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Internet
> Explorer.
>
> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.

The situation is nastier than that.  Assuming that the server delivers
the same bytes to every requester, what I see just after "
SP" is
0xEF 0xBB 0xBF, which is the UTF-8 encoding of the (non-existent) code
point 0xFEFF.  That is, something generated a file starting with BOM
(which is fine), but some process read that file and tried to convert
the characters into UTF-8, but mistook BOM as a character, rather than
an encoding signature.  It then took the UTF-8 and wrapped it in HTML
structures, leaving the BOM inside the 
, where it does no good.

It looks like the Unicode Consortium isn't as rigid as it used to be
regarding BOM, and it is now a sort-of character that can appear in text
formats other than UTF-16.  But it's still bad practice to put one in
the middle of a file.  (http://www.unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html#BOM)

Dale


From nobody Tue Sep 19 18:52:18 2017
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To: "Dale R. Worley" 
Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <877ewudum0.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter 
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:52:14 +1200
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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On 20/09/2017 13:30, Dale R. Worley wrote:
> Brian E Carpenter  writes:
>> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
>> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
>> does include the BOM.
>>
>> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
>> the document starts with [...] (which is the IS8859 interpretation
>> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
>> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the [pound], [euro] and
>> [u-umlaut] do not display correctly.
>>
>> The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
>> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters
>> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Internet
>> Explorer.
>>
>> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
>> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.
> 
> The situation is nastier than that.  Assuming that the server delivers
> the same bytes to every requester, what I see just after "
SP" is
> 0xEF 0xBB 0xBF, which is the UTF-8 encoding of the (non-existent) code
> point 0xFEFF.  

Yes, that's what I meant by "a UTF-8 BOM". And those three bytes
when interpreted as IS8859-1 give you the glyphs in the attached PNG file.

> That is, something generated a file starting with BOM
> (which is fine), but some process read that file and tried to convert
> the characters into UTF-8, but mistook BOM as a character, rather than
> an encoding signature.  It then took the UTF-8 and wrapped it in HTML
> structures, leaving the BOM inside the 
, where it does no good.
> 
> It looks like the Unicode Consortium isn't as rigid as it used to be
> regarding BOM, and it is now a sort-of character that can appear in text
> formats other than UTF-16.  But it's still bad practice to put one in
> the middle of a file.  (http://www.unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html#BOM)

I agree, fwiw.

    Brian

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--------------3B0BFC28F1320E447567D1AF--


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To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <935d04f3-7605-dcd2-7366-d7e3f522e0e0@gmail.com> <175CFE36-A267-42CF-98FE-50855E355DD6@tzi.org> <1403EA2F-C81D-44FF-B644-AD2C49FA6832@tzi.org> 
From: Julian Reschke 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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On 2017-09-20 01:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
> does include the BOM.
> 
> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
> the document starts with  (which is the IS8859 interpretation
> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the £, € and
> ü do not display correctly.

If you set your browser to ignore the server-supplied encoding 
information, it will. This is your problem, not a problem with the 
server or the payload.

See

   https://redbot.org/?uri=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc8187

>     HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>     Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 04:42:56 GMT
>     Server: Apache/2.2.22 (Debian)
>     Content-Location: rfc8187.html
>     Vary: negotiate,Accept-Encoding
>     TCN: choice
>     Last-Modified: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:58:22 GMT
>     ETag: "22cd1ad-c36c-5592d6002c6b7;559978fb430ee"
>     Accept-Ranges: bytes
>     Content-Length: 50028
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(where "X-Clacks-Overhead" looks funky).


> ... > The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters
> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Internet
> Explorer.
> 
> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.
> ...

It's pointless and harmless. But yes, it should be removed.

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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Hi Brian,

On 2017-09-20 01:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
> does include the BOM.
>
> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
> the document starts with =C3=AF=C2=BB=C2=BF (which is the IS8859 interp=
retation
> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the =C2=A3, =E2=82=
=AC and
> =C3=BC do not display correctly.
>=20
> The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters
> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Internet=

> Explorer.
>=20
> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.

I've updated rfcmarkup to strip out BOMs; the link above should now
give you a document without a BOM after the 
.

Will look at rfcdiff next.


Best regards,

	Henrik



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To: Henrik Levkowetz 
References: <935d04f3-7605-dcd2-7366-d7e3f522e0e0@gmail.com> <175CFE36-A267-42CF-98FE-50855E355DD6@tzi.org> <1403EA2F-C81D-44FF-B644-AD2C49FA6832@tzi.org>  <1c939c42-6574-8f3d-c871-80b7a0930f05@levkowetz.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter 
Organization: University of Auckland
Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:15:07 +1200
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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On 21/09/2017 06:34, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>=20
> On 2017-09-20 01:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
>> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
>> does include the BOM.
>>
>> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
>> the document starts with =C3=AF=C2=BB=C2=BF (which is the IS8859 inter=
pretation
>> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
>> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the =C2=A3, =E2=82=
=AC and
>> =C3=BC do not display correctly.
>>
>> The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
>> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters=

>> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Interne=
t
>> Explorer.
>>
>> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
>> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.
>=20
> I've updated rfcmarkup to strip out BOMs; the link above should now
> give you a document without a BOM after the 
.

Thanks much. It's fine, after remembering to refresh my browser cache ;-)=


> Will look at rfcdiff next.

I imagine that will be a bit more work.

Regards
    Brian


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To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org
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From: Henrik Levkowetz 
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To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcdiff
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Hi Brian,

On 2017-09-19 22:48, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> rfcdiff can't quite deal with BOMs apparently - see screenshot attached=
=2E
> The file on the left is the original RFC; on the right is a BOM-free ve=
rsion.
>=20
> I'm sending it here because there may be a number of tools with a simil=
ar problem.


For a while I was baffled -- as to why, see the entry under release
1.44 in the changelog here:

  https://zin.tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/changelog

But then I looked more closely at your screendump, and found that the
rfcdiff version on www.ietf.org is at 1.41, so hasn't been updated
for a while.

I'll fix that.

Best regards,

	Henrik




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From nobody Wed Sep 20 14:44:45 2017
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To: Henrik Levkowetz , Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <935d04f3-7605-dcd2-7366-d7e3f522e0e0@gmail.com> <175CFE36-A267-42CF-98FE-50855E355DD6@tzi.org> <1403EA2F-C81D-44FF-B644-AD2C49FA6832@tzi.org>  <1c939c42-6574-8f3d-c871-80b7a0930f05@levkowetz.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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On 9/20/17 1:34 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> On 2017-09-20 01:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
>> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
>> does include the BOM.
>>
>> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
>> the document starts with  (which is the IS8859 interpretation
>> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
>> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the £, € and
>> ü do not display correctly.
>>
>> The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
>> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matters
>> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Internet
>> Explorer.
>>
>> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
>> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.
> I've updated rfcmarkup to strip out BOMs; the link above should now
> give you a document without a BOM after the 
.

Wait. WAIT! No. This is the wrong answer. If you are in a tool that 
makes the BOM visible at all, the problem isn't the presence of the BOM 
(which was well-defined rendering semantics in UTF8 that basically say 
"this shouldn't be visible in any way at all"); the problem is that you 
are loading a UTF-8 document and treating it as _some_ _other_ _encoding_.

It does no good to paper over the presence of a BOM, since that just 
defers the problem to elsewhere (namely, any other non-ASCII codepoints 
in the document).

The proper behavior here, and especially for rfcdiff, is to make sure 
everything is using UTF-8. Leaving the BOM in place serves as a useful 
canary in this coal mine, and I would suggest *not* stripping it, at 
least until we're sure the tools *otherwise* handle UTF-8 correctly. 
That is, the BOM provides a good litmus test: if you can see it, you're 
doing it wrong.

/a


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To: Adam Roach , Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Hi Adam,

On 2017-09-20 23:44, Adam Roach wrote:
> On 9/20/17 1:34 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>> On 2017-09-20 01:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>>> Just a note that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8187 seems
>>> to be fine, iff your browser is set to assume UTF-8. But it
>>> does include the BOM.
>>>
>>> If your browser is set to assume what Firefox calls "Western",
>>> the document starts with =C3=AF=C2=BB=C2=BF (which is the IS8859 inte=
rpretation
>>> of a UTF-8 BOM, expressed in UTF-8, if that doesn't make your head
>>> hurt and if it survives the email system). Naturally, the =C2=A3, =E2=
=82=AC and
>>> =C3=BC do not display correctly.
>>>
>>> The BOM is in the generated HTML immediately after the 
.
>>> However, with Firefox it performs no useful function; all that matter=
s
>>> is the View/Text Encoding setting. Exactly the same applies to Intern=
et
>>> Explorer.
>>>
>>> Thus, at least for these two browsers, including the BOM in the HTML
>>> file seems to be pointless. I'd vote for removing it.
>> I've updated rfcmarkup to strip out BOMs; the link above should now
>> give you a document without a BOM after the 
.
>=20
> Wait. WAIT! No. This is the wrong answer. If you are in a tool that=20
> makes the BOM visible at all, the problem isn't the presence of the BOM=
=20
> (which was well-defined rendering semantics in UTF8 that basically say =

> "this shouldn't be visible in any way at all"); the problem is that you=
=20
> are loading a UTF-8 document and treating it as _some_ _other_ _encodin=
g_.

I'm sorry, but I disagree (at least in one sense).  Earlier, rfcmarkup
left a BOM in the middle of the html, which I believe is wrong.  You
could say that this is the result of not reading a UTF-8 file with BOM
correctly, and I would agree.  So now I'm reading the content as UTF-8,
but not keeping the BOM, and not placing it in the middle of a html file
(which is served with Content-Type: text/html; charset=3DUTF-8).  I think=

that's right.

> It does no good to paper over the presence of a BOM, since that just=20
> defers the problem to elsewhere (namely, any other non-ASCII codepoints=
=20
> in the document).

Nope.  I've been handling UTF-8 correctly in rfcmarkup for several years;=

it has behaved correctly for draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc5987bis for every
version which has had non-ascii characters.

> The proper behavior here, and especially for rfcdiff, is to make sure=20
> everything is using UTF-8. Leaving the BOM in place serves as a useful =

> canary in this coal mine, and I would suggest *not* stripping it, at=20
> least until we're sure the tools *otherwise* handle UTF-8 correctly.=20
> That is, the BOM provides a good litmus test: if you can see it, you're=
=20
> doing it wrong.

I think my experience is that rfcmarkup has bean dealing just fine with
utf-8 in general, but the BOM (which I think is nonsense in UTF-8, but
that's a different discussion) has been visible, which I've now fixed.


Best regards,

	Henrik


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From nobody Wed Sep 20 15:11:56 2017
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From: Adam Roach 
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On 9/20/17 5:08 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> I think my experience is that rfcmarkup has bean dealing just fine with
> utf-8 in general, but the BOM (which I think is nonsense in UTF-8, but
> that's a different discussion) has been visible, which I've now fixed.


The BOM is formally a "ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE."  How would it be 
visible if you're handling UTF-8 correctly?

/a


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] BOMs and rfcmarkup
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> On 21 Sep 2017, at 00:11, Adam Roach  wrote:
>=20
>> On 9/20/17 5:08 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> I think my experience is that rfcmarkup has bean dealing just fine with
>> utf-8 in general, but the BOM (which I think is nonsense in UTF-8, but
>> that's a different discussion) has been visible, which I've now fixed.
>=20
>=20
> The BOM is formally a "ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE."  How would it be visibl=
e if you're handling UTF-8 correctly?

Sorry. Bad wording. In rfcmarkup it was _present_ (it could not be visually i=
dentified because it did not display).

    Henrik

>=20
> /a
>=20
> --=20
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/iet=
fdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues or=

> send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


From nobody Wed Sep 20 16:18:07 2017
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On 9/20/17 18:15, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> On 21 Sep 2017, at 00:11, Adam Roach  wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/20/17 5:08 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> I think my experience is that rfcmarkup has bean dealing just fine with
>>> utf-8 in general, but the BOM (which I think is nonsense in UTF-8, but
>>> that's a different discussion) has been visible, which I've now fixed.
>>
>> The BOM is formally a "ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE."  How would it be visible if you're handling UTF-8 correctly?
> Sorry. Bad wording. In rfcmarkup it was _present_ (it could not be visually identified because it did not display).

Ah! Okay. In that case, I have no issues with stripping it out.

/a


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From: Martin Thomson 
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Automated upload for drafts
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Thanks to Henrik's new upload endpoint on the datatracker, I now have
a version of my template that automates the process.

The process is much simpler: you create and push a git tag and the CI
system will build your draft and submit it.  You will receive an
email, click on the link and confirm the submission.

Getting this right was a little tricky, so I am going to take some
more time to test this out before I make this part of the default
configuration.

If you are feeling adventurous, you could help me out by following the
instructions on the PR to enable this for your repo:
https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/pull/108


From nobody Fri Sep 29 06:37:22 2017
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From: Stephen Farrell 
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] homenet tools wg page has draft in odd state...
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Subject: homenet tools wg page has draft in odd state...

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Hiya,

There's an oddity on the homenet WG tools page. [1]

We have a draft [2] that's been adopted but where
the author has still (a month or two later) not put
out the draft-ietf-homenet-* version. For some reason
the tools page treats that draft oddly as you'll see.

We think the issue will likely go away when the WG
version is published (and we're hassling the author:-)
but thought you might want to know about it, hence
this mail.

Cheers,
S.

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/wg/homenet/
[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tldm-simple-homenet-naming/


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From: "Eggert, Lars" 
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Can't get to it with either v4 or v6.

Lars

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On Saturday 30 September 2017 at 13:48:43, Eggert, Lars wrote:

> Can't get to it with either v4 or v6.

Looks like it was a temporary hiccup - I was having problems with the same 
machine for ~10 minutes but I can now get to it with rsync (both IPv4 and 
IPv6).

Disclaimer: I don't manage that server :)

-- 
Antony Stone
Systems admin
IETF Tools servers
https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonystone


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On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Antony Stone 
wrote:
> On Saturday 30 September 2017 at 13:48:43, Eggert, Lars wrote:
> > Can't get to it with either v4 or v6.
> Looks like it was a temporary hiccup - I was having problems with the same
> machine for ~10 minutes but I can now get to it with rsync (both IPv4 and
> IPv6).
> Disclaimer: I don't manage that server :)

But I do.

Yes, every 2-3 weeks, we do maintenance upgrades and reboots on all of our
servers, which includes both physical and virtual hosts.  We do not
announce these, since they happen regularly and (hopefully) quickly.  We
try to do these on weekends whenever possible.

A brief service interruption of this type is expected when that happens.

And of course, if anyone gets worried... ietf-action@ietf.org is the
fastest way to get to us.  :-)   Or - if the entire server is down and
persists - you can email me directly if you wish.

Glen
--
Glen Barney
IT Director
AMS (IETF Secretariat)

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On Sat, Sep 30, 20=
17 at 4:56 AM, Antony Stone <Antony.Stone@open.source.it> wrote:
> On Saturday 30 Septe=
mber 2017 at 13:48:43, Eggert, Lars wrote:
> > Can't get to it=
 with either v4 or v6.
> Looks like it was a temporary hiccup - I was=
 having problems with the same
> machine for ~10 minutes but I can no=
w get to it with rsync (both IPv4 and
> IPv6).
> Disclaimer: I =
don't manage that server :)

But I do.

Yes, ev=
ery 2-3 weeks, we do maintenance upgrades and reboots on all of our servers=
, which includes both physical and virtual hosts.=C2=A0 We do not announce =
these, since they happen regularly and (hopefully) quickly.=C2=A0 We try to=
 do these on weekends whenever possible.

A brief service inter=
ruption of this type is expected when that happens.

And of cou=
rse, if anyone gets worried... ietf=
-action@ietf.org is the fastest way to get to us.=C2=A0 :-)=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 Or - if the entire server is down and persists - you can email me directly=
 if you wish.

Glen
--
Glen Barne=
y
IT Director
AMS (IETF Secretariat)



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