From nobody Mon Jan  8 11:20:31 2018
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From: Glen <glen@amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 11:20:03 -0800
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To: quic@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] The QUIC list is not broken
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--94eb2c1fcb40a1735c056248b05e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear QUIC subscribers -

The tools team and I are working on some improvements to the mail systems
on the IETF servers.  During the course of testing some improvements, an
old email message accidentally got replayed through the list, and was sent
to many of you.

We apologize for the noise, the list is not broken, mail is not delayed,
this was simply something working much more quickly than we expected it to.

Thank you for your patience as we continue to work on improvements to the
system.  We hope no more messages will go out... but if another does, there
is no need to panic!

As always, any questions, let me know.

Glen
Glen Barney
IT Director
AMS (IETF Secretariat)

--94eb2c1fcb40a1735c056248b05e
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Dear QUIC subscrib=
ers -<br><br></div>The tools team and I are working on some improvements to=
 the mail systems on the IETF servers.=C2=A0 During the course of testing s=
ome improvements, an old email message accidentally got replayed through th=
e list, and was sent to many of you.<br><br></div>We apologize for the nois=
e, the list is not broken, mail is not delayed, this was simply something w=
orking much more quickly than we expected it to.<br><br></div>Thank you for=
 your patience as we continue to work on improvements to the system.=C2=A0 =
We hope no more messages will go out... but if another does, there is no ne=
ed to panic!<br><br></div>As always, any questions, let me know.<br><br></d=
iv>Glen<br></div>Glen Barney<br></div>IT Director<br></div>AMS (IETF Secret=
ariat)<br></div>

--94eb2c1fcb40a1735c056248b05e--


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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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Hi,
	does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email (using 
the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in the 
tracker, nor is it fixed.

Thanks,
Lou

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>

Hi,

     when I click the pptx link on
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...

Thanks,

Lou


From nobody Fri Jan 12 08:09:19 2018
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To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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I wasn't online at the time of the original report.

I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and 
will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx 
version is on the server.

RjS


On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
> Hi,
>     does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email 
> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in 
> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>
> Hi,
>
>     when I click the pptx link on
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lou
>


From nobody Mon Jan 15 10:46:31 2018
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To: Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Hi,

I've just noticed that HTMLIzed RFCs like https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026
do not include a link back to the tracker page, whereas HTMLIzed I-Ds like
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-poised95-std-proc-3-06 do have
such a link.

So this is a feature request.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter



From nobody Mon Jan 15 12:45:45 2018
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Feature request to include a tracker link in HTMLIzed RFCs
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Hi Brian,

On 2018-01-15 19:46, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> I've just noticed that HTMLIzed RFCs like https://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc2026
> do not include a link back to the tracker page, whereas HTMLIzed I-Ds l=
ike
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-poised95-std-proc-3-06 do have
> such a link.
>=20
> So this is a feature request.

I've implemented this, but I'm not sure if it will play well with the
draft line-length, so there may be other tweaks coming to compensate.

This will gradually show up as the htmlized files cached on disk are
updated on the tools servers.


Best regards,

	Henrik




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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
References: <38c1c60b-c914-3b05-b46e-294f078a6025@gmail.com> <a742f341-d0de-0831-4cd2-3159726bcdf4@levkowetz.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Feature request to include a tracker link in HTMLIzed RFCs
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Wow, thanks for the instant action!

Regards
   Brian

On 16/01/2018 09:45, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Brian,
> 
> On 2018-01-15 19:46, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've just noticed that HTMLIzed RFCs like https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026
>> do not include a link back to the tracker page, whereas HTMLIzed I-Ds like
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-poised95-std-proc-3-06 do have
>> such a link.
>>
>> So this is a feature request.
> 
> I've implemented this, but I'm not sure if it will play well with the
> draft line-length, so there may be other tweaks coming to compensate.
> 
> This will gradually show up as the htmlized files cached on disk are
> updated on the tools servers.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 	Henrik
> 
> 
> 


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To: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>
> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx
> version is on the server.
great!

Thanks,
Lou

>
> RjS
>
>
> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> Hi,
>>      does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email
>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lou
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>      when I click the pptx link on
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Lou
>>
>


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To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <e0fb0373-3086-8d0b-65aa-8150b662dc66@labn.net>
From: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:25:21 -0600
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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Today's release contains the fix (Henrik fixed it) - should be good now.

RjS

On 1/16/18 9:05 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>
>
> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>
>> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx
>> version is on the server.
> great!
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
>
>>
>> RjS
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>      does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email
>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>      when I click the pptx link on
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/ 
>>>
>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>
>


From nobody Tue Jan 16 07:36:15 2018
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To: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <e0fb0373-3086-8d0b-65aa-8150b662dc66@labn.net> <9354b14d-e39d-16f0-0338-a85df266d521@nostrum.com>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:35:14 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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excellent -- I'll try it in a day or so and shout if have issues.

Lou


On 1/16/2018 10:25 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> Today's release contains the fix (Henrik fixed it) - should be good now.
>
> RjS
>
> On 1/16/18 9:05 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>
>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>
>>> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx
>>> version is on the server.
>> great!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lou
>>
>>> RjS
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>       does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email
>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>       when I click the pptx link on
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>>>>
>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>


From nobody Mon Jan 22 09:43:40 2018
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 17:43:31 -0000
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] A datatracker discussion point
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When we show a legacy copy of a draft (e.g., one that has expired or been
updated) we just show plain text, pdf, html, and bibtex even if the xml was
submitted.
For example
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-teas-pce-central-control-04.txt via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-pce-central-control/04/
But https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-teas-pce-central-control-04.xml
*does* exist. Just that nothing conveniently points to it.

When we show the most recent version of an active draft we also show the xml (if
it was submitted).
For example, https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-farrel-sfc-convent-05.xml

When a draft becomes an RFC it is very hard to find the final version of the
draft because the page automagically goes to the RFC text.
For example,
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-pce-central-control/05/
Now the RFC is not the final draft version and fortunately, we do hold the
archive TXT file.
For example
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-teas-pce-central-control-05.txt
exists. Just that nothing conveniently points to it.

Furthermore,
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-teas-pce-central-control-05.xml
*does* exist.

So, the questions...
1. Would it be helpful to include the pointer to the XML of old draft versions?
2. Would it be helpful to include a pointer to the TXT and XML of the final
version of a draft that has become an RFC?

Discuss :-)

Adrian





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To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 07:55:07 +1300
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A datatracker discussion point
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On 23/01/2018 06:43, Adrian Farrel wrote:
...> 1. Would it be helpful to include the pointer to the XML of old draft versions?
> 2. Would it be helpful to include a pointer to the TXT and XML of the final
> version of a draft that has become an RFC?

Yes. (Although I always use the tools site for this anyway; but if all the
convenience features were also in the tracker, I wouldn't need to.)

    Brian



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To: "datatracker-project@ietf.org" <datatracker-project@ietf.org>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format
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Hi,

     I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text 
format at got the following error:

Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of 
application/pdf.

other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.

Thanks,

Lou

PS please remember Postel's law...

--------------E32AD0E21DF229CACCAFF97E
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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hi,</p>
    <p>    I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in
      text format at got the following error:</p>
    <p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;PT
        Serif&quot;, Palatino, &quot;Neue Swift&quot;, serif; font-size:
        15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
        font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
        normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
        text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
        word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
        background-color: rgb(255, 108, 95); text-decoration-style:
        initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
        !important; float: none;">Found content with unexpected mime
        type: text/plain. Expected one of application/pdf.</span></p>
    other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.<br>
    <br>
    Thanks,<br>
    <br>
    Lou<br>
    <br>
    PS please remember Postel's law...<br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------E32AD0E21DF229CACCAFF97E--


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format
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captured at <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2437>


On 1/23/18 9:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>     I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text 
> format at got the following error:
>
> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of 
> application/pdf.
>
> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lou
>
> PS please remember Postel's law...


--------------40ABB9D5AE3D9867A4BCBC82
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<html>
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    <p>captured at
      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2437">&lt;https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2437&gt;</a><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/23/18 9:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:bef35364-c06f-50a4-c61d-b0de45cc9d9d@labn.net">
      <div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">
        <p>Hi,</p>
        <p>    I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim
          in text format at got the following error:</p>
        <p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;PT
            Serif&quot;, Palatino, &quot;Neue Swift&quot;, serif;
            font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
            normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
            letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
            text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
            widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
            0px; background-color: rgb(255, 108, 95);
            text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
            initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">Found
            content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one
            of application/pdf.</span></p>
        other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.<br>
        <br>
        Thanks,<br>
        <br>
        Lou<br>
        <br>
        PS please remember Postel's law...<br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------40ABB9D5AE3D9867A4BCBC82--


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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Hi,

So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is 
tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with IETF tools?

Thanks,

Lou

PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...

On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>
> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx
> version is on the server.
>
> RjS
>
>
> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> Hi,
>>      does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email
>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lou
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>      when I click the pptx link on
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Lou
>>
>


From nobody Thu Jan 25 05:43:59 2018
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To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net>
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
 tools-discuss@ietf.org
Message-ID: <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net>
 <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net>
 <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com>
 <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net>
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There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.

The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:

"...

Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ie=
tfdb
or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
"

The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.


	Henrik



On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is=20
> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with IETF to=
ols?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Lou
>=20
> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>=20
> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>
>> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> an=
d
>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .ppt=
x
>> version is on the server.
>>
>> RjS
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>      does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email=

>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>      when I click the pptx link on
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-sta=
tus/
>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>
>=20


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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net> <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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On 1/25/2018 8:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.
so which is right for discussion?

Thanks,
Lou
> The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:
>
> "...
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
> "
>
> The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
> with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.
>
>
> 	Henrik
>
>
>
> On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is
>> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with IETF tools?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>>
>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>
>>> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx
>>> version is on the server.
>>>
>>> RjS
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>       does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email
>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>       when I click the pptx link on
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>


From nobody Thu Jan 25 06:12:11 2018
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References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net> <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com> <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net>
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>,
 tools-discuss@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20e2f079-4f9f-a5e8-4254-6d468be55699@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net>
 <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net>
 <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com>
 <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net>
 <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com>
 <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net>
In-Reply-To: <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net>

--JFLfIS3AQvsrBvx1Jr6ujTHoEXpFSJV18
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On 2018-01-25 14:57, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> On 1/25/2018 8:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.
> so which is right for discussion?

The tools-discuss list.

Regards,

	Henrik



> Thanks,
> Lou
>> The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:
>>
>> "...
>>
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools=
/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>> "
>>
>> The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
>> with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.
>>
>>
>> 	Henrik
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is
>>> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with IETF =
tools?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>>>
>>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>>
>>>> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> =
and
>>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .p=
ptx
>>>> version is on the server.
>>>>
>>>> RjS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>       does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via em=
ail
>>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in=

>>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>       when I click the pptx link on
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-s=
tatus/
>>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20


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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 07:35:37 -0800
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Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net> <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com> <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net> <20e2f079-4f9f-a5e8-4254-6d468be55699@levkowetz.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/OHzSUjrw4RyQGMR8dKRs4XGaz9I>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On 2018-01-25 14:57, Lou Berger wrote:
>>=20
>> On 1/25/2018 8:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.
>> so which is right for discussion?
>=20
> The tools-discuss list.

The one with =E2=80=9Cdiscuss=E2=80=9D in the list name :-)

Bob


>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> 	Henrik
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Lou
>>> The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:
>>>=20
>>> "...
>>>=20
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at =
http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>> "
>>>=20
>>> The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
>>> with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 	Henrik
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>=20
>>>> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is
>>>> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with =
IETF tools?
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>=20
>>>> Lou
>>>>=20
>>>> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>>>>=20
>>>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I've created =
<https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>>>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the =
.pptx
>>>>> version is on the server.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> RjS
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>      does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via =
email
>>>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed =
in
>>>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>      when I click the pptx link on
>>>>>> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>>>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>=20
>>=20
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>=20
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>=20
>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


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To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
Cc: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net> <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com> <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net> <20e2f079-4f9f-a5e8-4254-6d468be55699@levkowetz.com> <9F4DA213-951D-4464-AECD-C47859436C42@gmail.com>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Message-ID: <b82259c2-542b-8dab-8443-af598d1a6383@labn.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 10:49:25 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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On 1/25/2018 10:35 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
>> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 2018-01-25 14:57, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2018 8:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>> There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.
>>> so which is right for discussion?
>> The tools-discuss list.
> The one with “discuss” in the list name :-)

That's what I expected, but having a bug lay undiscussed for such a long 
time just because one person was out doesn't seem like a 
robust/functional system to me...

So what *is* the different between tools-discuss and tools-development?

Lou

>
> Bob
>
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> 	Henrik
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lou
>>>> The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:
>>>>
>>>> "...
>>>>
>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
>>>> with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 	Henrik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is
>>>>> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with IETF tools?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've created <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>>>>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that the .pptx
>>>>>> version is on the server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RjS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>       does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via email
>>>>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it listed in
>>>>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       when I click the pptx link on
>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>>>>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>
>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>
>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 07:53:25 -0800
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Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net> <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com> <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net> <20e2f079-4f9f-a5e8-4254-6d468be55699@levkowetz.com> <9F4DA213-951D-4464-AECD-C47859436C42@gmail.com> <b82259c2-542b-8dab-8443-af598d1a6383@labn.net>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: unable to reach uploaded pptx
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Lou,

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:49 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 1/25/2018 10:35 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
>>> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 2018-01-25 14:57, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2018 8:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>>> There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.
>>>> so which is right for discussion?
>>> The tools-discuss list.
>> The one with =E2=80=9Cdiscuss=E2=80=9D in the list name :-)
>=20
> That's what I expected, but having a bug lay undiscussed for such a =
long time just because one person was out doesn't seem like a =
robust/functional system to me=E2=80=A6

Sorry, I couldn=E2=80=99t resist making the snarky comment :-)

Bob

>=20
> So what *is* the different between tools-discuss and =
tools-development?
>=20
> Lou
>=20
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> 	Henrik
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lou
>>>>> The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> "...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at =
http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>>> "
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
>>>>> with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 	Henrik
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is
>>>>>> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with =
IETF tools?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>>>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I've created =
<https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>>>>>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that =
the .pptx
>>>>>>> version is on the server.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> RjS
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>      does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported via =
email
>>>>>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it =
listed in
>>>>>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>>>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>      when I click the pptx link on
>>>>>>>> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/
>>>>>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>>=20
>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>>=20
>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>>>=20
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>=20
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>=20
>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20


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From nobody Thu Jan 25 08:09:31 2018
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To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <bd5515c7-38c8-0827-325e-fe3e6d1b1123@labn.net> <12c6ca28-875b-79bb-097b-94585fced120@labn.net> <fa27348d-321d-4780-1216-6e55b25c404f@nostrum.com> <d7381d03-eda6-e386-ef1c-dbc768966151@labn.net> <e9b134d4-e4d5-5915-7f34-08194d399cc8@levkowetz.com> <e13b661b-ab43-ab78-581c-3cf74238e4c0@labn.net> <20e2f079-4f9f-a5e8-4254-6d468be55699@levkowetz.com> <9F4DA213-951D-4464-AECD-C47859436C42@gmail.com> <b82259c2-542b-8dab-8443-af598d1a6383@labn.net>
From: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
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On 1/25/18 9:49 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>
>
> On 1/25/2018 10:35 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
>>> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018-01-25 14:57, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2018 8:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>>> There's a difference between bug reporting and discussions.
>>>> so which is right for discussion?
>>> The tools-discuss list.
>> The one with “discuss” in the list name :-)
>
> That's what I expected, but having a bug lay undiscussed for such a 
> long time just because one person was out doesn't seem like a 
> robust/functional system to me...
>
> So what *is* the different between tools-discuss and tools-development?
Tools-discuss is the place where the community can discuss issues and 
desired enhancements to the tools.

Tools-development is the place where the people guiding and doing the 
work on the tools coordinate - it's essentially the list for the team 
that meets on the tools calls.
>
> Lou
>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>     Henrik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lou
>>>>> The footer of all tools-discuss emails sent out contains this:
>>>>>
>>>>> "...
>>>>>
>>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org bugs at 
>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>>> "
>>>>>
>>>>> The same goes for mailarchive bugs; the same issue tracker deals
>>>>> with those.  I'll update the footer accordingly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Henrik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-01-25 14:31, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So is tools-discuss still an active list, or is
>>>>>> tools-development@ietf.org now the place to discuss issues with 
>>>>>> IETF tools?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS Another recent pail to this list went unanswered...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/12/2018 11:09 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>>>>> I wasn't online at the time of the original report.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've created 
>>>>>>> <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/ticket/2436> and
>>>>>>> will look into fixing the underlying problem. I verified that 
>>>>>>> the .pptx
>>>>>>> version is on the server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RjS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/12/18 9:38 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>       does anyone know the status of this issue?  I reported 
>>>>>>>> via email
>>>>>>>> (using the link on the datatracker page) but don't see it 
>>>>>>>> listed in
>>>>>>>> the tracker, nor is it fixed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: unable to reach uploaded pptx
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 23:14:45 -0500
>>>>>>>> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>>>>> To: datatracker-project@ietf.org <datatracker-project@ietf.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       when I click the pptx link on
>>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-100-teas-administrivia-wg-status/ 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I get the PDF.  I think something is broken...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>>
>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>>
>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>
>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


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Subject: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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Background for the question: I just split a draft into two; submitted =
the spin-off (which references an old version of the original), and now =
am waiting for the bibxml3 file to turn up so I can push the reduced =
original (which references the spin-off) to github with an expectation =
that the CI will work.

Is there a reason this takes more than, say, a few minutes?

(Bonus: if someone figures out how to do mutual references without the =
help of the RFC editor, I=E2=80=99ll buy you a beer in London :-)		=
			=09

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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Hi Carsten,

The answer is: hourly, starting at 15 minutes past the hour.

On 2018-01-27 23:24, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> Background for the question: I just split a draft into two; submitted
> the spin-off (which references an old version of the original), and
> now am waiting for the bibxml3 file to turn up so I can push the
> reduced original (which references the spin-off) to github with an
> expectation that the CI will work.
>=20
> Is there a reason this takes more than, say, a few minutes?

Simple answer: it's driven by cron, and iterates through all drafts
every time.  Replacing the old cronjob with on-the-fly generation in
the datatracker would change things completely.

> (Bonus: if someone figures out how to do mutual references without
> the help of the RFC editor, I=E2=80=99ll buy you a beer in London :-)

Could you say a bit more so I'm sure I understand the issue?


Best regards,

	Henrik



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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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On 2018-01-27 23:24, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> ...
> (Bonus: if someone figures out how to do mutual references without the help of the RFC editor, I’ll buy you a beer in London :-)						
> ...

You can put into a reference whatever you want, so what's the problem here?

Best regards, Julian


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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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On Jan 28, 2018, at 16:44, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>=20
> On 2018-01-27 23:24, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> ...
>> (Bonus: if someone figures out how to do mutual references without =
the help of the RFC editor, I=E2=80=99ll buy you a beer in London :-)		=
			=09
>> ...
>=20
> You can put into a reference whatever you want, so what's the problem =
here?

Hi Julian,

I know that you like to manually create the contents of the references =
sections.

I believe that this is both a waste of time and an inevitable source of =
clerical errors.

So, when I write a draft, I try to reference bibxml as much as possible =
(including now the automatically generated bibxml parts for DOIs, which =
solve 80 % of the cases that used to require manually created =
references).

When I write *two* drafts that mutually reference each other, to =
generate one of the drafts, I=E2=80=99d need the bibxml info for the =
other draft at the time of generation of the draft already.  Now, =
obviously, that is a catch-22.

What I=E2=80=99m planning to do at some point (when I have a lot of time =
:-) is write a tool that pre-populates the ~/.cache/xml2rfc with an =
advance version of the bibxml files that will be generated for a draft =
to be submitted, allowing two new drafts to reference each other before =
either of them enters the Internet-Drafts directory and thus (with up to =
an hour of delay) bibxml.  It=E2=80=99s not too hard to extract the =
<front> element from the RFCXML of the other, almost complete draft; I =
just have to do the glue around that right.  It would also be nice to =
build in some precautions that minimize the clerical errors that this is =
likely to introduce due to missed updates of the pre-populated =
information.

(And, to the Subject question: Henrik, can the period maybe be reduced =
to 30 minutes?)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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On 2018-01-28 18:15, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> ...
> Hi Julian,
> 
> I know that you like to manually create the contents of the references sections.
> 
> I believe that this is both a waste of time and an inevitable source of clerical errors.
> ...

We did it for HTTP and we do it for QUIC... It also helps to make the 
editor's copy point to the editor's copies of the sibling documents -- 
and that's important, isn't it?

> ...

Best regards, Julian


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> On Jan 28, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> =
wrote:
>=20
> On 2018-01-28 18:15, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> ...
>> Hi Julian,
>> I know that you like to manually create the contents of the =
references sections.
>> I believe that this is both a waste of time and an inevitable source =
of clerical errors.
>> ...
>=20
> We did it for HTTP and we do it for QUIC... It also helps to make the =
editor's copy point to the editor's copies of the sibling documents -- =
and that's important, isn't it?

I ran into this issue when doing the IPv6 updates with several drafts =
that reference each other.  I eventually stopped worrying about it, =
figuring that what was really important was that the published RFC had =
the correct references.

Bob


>=20
>> ...
>=20
> Best regards, Julian
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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Hi Carsten,

On 2018-01-28 18:15, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> (And, to the Subject question: Henrik, can the period maybe be
> reduced to 30 minutes?)

Done, the script now starts at *:15 and *:45, and takes about 11 minutes =
to run.

Long-term, we should find a different solution, as the scripts are old
and (for me, at least) hard-to-maintain TCL.  (From Marshall Rose's time)=
=2E
Tony Hansen has done an admirable job of keeping them alive.


Best,

	Henrik


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From nobody Sun Jan 28 14:18:56 2018
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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--=-=-=
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Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
    > When I write *two* drafts that mutually reference each other, to
    > generate one of the drafts, I=E2=80=99d need the bibxml info for the =
other
    > draft at the time of generation of the draft already.  Now, obviously,
    > that is a catch-22.

Yeah, I'd think that you have to write them both with no reference and then
interate to get the bibxml available....

    > What I=E2=80=99m planning to do at some point (when I have a lot of t=
ime :-) is
    > write a tool that pre-populates the ~/.cache/xml2rfc with an advance
    > version of the bibxml files that will be generated for a draft to be
    > submitted, allowing two new drafts to reference each other before
    > either of them enters the Internet-Drafts directory and thus (with up
    > to an hour of delay) bibxml.  It=E2=80=99s not too hard to extract th=
e <front>

So does DT/biblxml code pull data out of the datatracker, or does it extract
it from the txt or xml files...?
Perhaps xml2rfc should emit the .bibxml3 file for each document...

    > element from the RFCXML of the other, almost complete draft; I just
    > have to do the glue around that right.  It would also be nice to build
    > in some precautions that minimize the clerical errors that this is
    > likely to introduce due to missed updates of the pre-populated
    > information.


=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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From nobody Sun Jan 28 16:12:31 2018
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How often are bibxml3 files generated?
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On Jan 28, 2018, at 18:49, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> On Jan 28, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> On 2018-01-28 18:15, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Hi Julian,
>>> I know that you like to manually create the contents of the =
references sections.
>>> I believe that this is both a waste of time and an inevitable source =
of clerical errors.
>>> ...
>>=20
>> We did it for HTTP and we do it for QUIC... It also helps to make the =
editor's copy point to the editor's copies of the sibling documents -- =
and that's important, isn't it?

Sure.  For drafts that are really just sections of a single document, =
that may work well.  If the coupling is a little less intensive, it =
becomes more work to coordinate.  In any case, I=E2=80=99d rather =
continue to do changes in one place only and replicate from there =
programmatically.

> I ran into this issue when doing the IPv6 updates with several drafts =
that reference each other.  I eventually stopped worrying about it, =
figuring that what was really important was that the published RFC had =
the correct references.

Absolutely, not worrying is a valid strategy (which is pretty much what =
I=E2=80=99ve been doing so far).  I just was thinking about good ways to =
move beyond that=E2=80=A6

(I since wrote the little tool for pre-populating the cache that I =
outlined in my previous mail, and it will be part of the next version of =
kramdown-rfc.  No update precautions except for the somewhat aggressive =
cache retirement that kramdown-rfc uses...)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------9727BE95F389E3C38C516A6C
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The mime type checking on DT materials manager is causing more problems. 
  I suggest removing type checking for the time being.

I'm trying to upload the attached (using chrome) as an agenda update and 
am seeing:


> Revise Agenda for interim-2018-detnet-02 : detnet
> × Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of text/plain, text/html.
> Agenda file to upload. Note that you can only upload agendas in txt or html formats.
> 
> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of text/plain, text/html.


Please help the interim is in 2 days!

Thank you,
Lou (as WG chair)


On 1/23/2018 10:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>      I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text 
> format at got the following error:
> 
> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of 
> application/pdf.
> 
> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Lou
> 
> PS please remember Postel's law...

--------------9727BE95F389E3C38C516A6C
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 name="agenda-18-01-31.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="agenda-18-01-31.txt"

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--------------9727BE95F389E3C38C516A6C--


From nobody Mon Jan 29 05:12:03 2018
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>,
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New
 DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
References: <bef35364-c06f-50a4-c61d-b0de45cc9d9d@labn.net>
 <0239f28d-a650-b4de-cc09-343c53b3afe7@labn.net>
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Hi Lou,

Looking at this now.

But will you please stop spamming the mailing lists with bug reports,
when you (as evidenced by the inclusion in the addressee list) are
perfectly well aware of the proper bug report email address?

	Henrik

On 2018-01-29 13:49, Lou Berger wrote:
> The mime type checking on DT materials manager is causing more problems=
=2E=20
>   I suggest removing type checking for the time being.
>=20
> I'm trying to upload the attached (using chrome) as an agenda update an=
d=20
> am seeing:
>=20
>=20
>> Revise Agenda for interim-2018-detnet-02 : detnet
>> =C3=97 Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected o=
ne of text/plain, text/html.
>> Agenda file to upload. Note that you can only upload agendas in txt or=
 html formats.
>>=20
>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of t=
ext/plain, text/html.
>=20
>=20
> Please help the interim is in 2 days!
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (as WG chair)
>=20
>=20
> On 1/23/2018 10:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>>      I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text =

>> format at got the following error:
>>=20
>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of=20
>> application/pdf.
>>=20
>> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Lou
>>=20
>> PS please remember Postel's law...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20


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From nobody Mon Jan 29 05:33:40 2018
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [django-project] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>,
 "datatracker-project@ietf.org" <datatracker-project@ietf.org>,
 tools-discuss@ietf.org, IETF Tools Development <tools-development@ietf.org>,
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Subject: Re: [django-project] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New
 DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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 <0239f28d-a650-b4de-cc09-343c53b3afe7@labn.net>
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Agenda uploaded.

	Henrik

On 2018-01-29 13:49, Lou Berger wrote:
> The mime type checking on DT materials manager is causing more problems=
=2E=20
>   I suggest removing type checking for the time being.
>=20
> I'm trying to upload the attached (using chrome) as an agenda update an=
d=20
> am seeing:
>=20
>=20
>> Revise Agenda for interim-2018-detnet-02 : detnet
>> =C3=97 Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected o=
ne of text/plain, text/html.
>> Agenda file to upload. Note that you can only upload agendas in txt or=
 html formats.
>>=20
>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of t=
ext/plain, text/html.
>=20
>=20
> Please help the interim is in 2 days!
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (as WG chair)
>=20
>=20
> On 1/23/2018 10:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>>      I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text =

>> format at got the following error:
>>=20
>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of=20
>> application/pdf.
>>=20
>> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Lou
>>=20
>> PS please remember Postel's law...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Django-project mailing list
> Django-project@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/django-project
>=20


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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, "datatracker-project@ietf.org" <datatracker-project@ietf.org>, tools-discuss@ietf.org, IETF Tools Development <tools-development@ietf.org>, DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 08:35:35 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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On 01/29/2018 08:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Lou,
> 
> Looking at this now.
> 

Thank you.

> But will you please stop spamming the mailing lists with bug reports,
> when you (as evidenced by the inclusion in the addressee list) are
> perfectly well aware of the proper bug report email address?

I'm completely unsure at this point who does what.

WRT this message
- DT project is included as the formal bug submission point, but past
limited distribution elicited zero response.
- tools-dev is included as DT is a paid support service
- tools-discuss is included as I suggested a technical change (following
postel's lay and not checking mime type)

If you sense frustration on my part, you're right. Basic IETF process
infrastructure is getting fancier, but harder to use - at least from my
perspective as a WG chair.  FWIW I really don't enjoy being a 'squeaky
wheel' - I just want to get my work done and move on to the next task.
If DT makes it harder, it'll just be less useful.

Lou

> 
> 	Henrik
> 
> On 2018-01-29 13:49, Lou Berger wrote:
>> The mime type checking on DT materials manager is causing more problems. 
>>   I suggest removing type checking for the time being.
>>
>> I'm trying to upload the attached (using chrome) as an agenda update and 
>> am seeing:
>>
>>
>>> Revise Agenda for interim-2018-detnet-02 : detnet
>>> × Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of text/plain, text/html.
>>> Agenda file to upload. Note that you can only upload agendas in txt or html formats.
>>>
>>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of text/plain, text/html.
>>
>>
>> Please help the interim is in 2 days!
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Lou (as WG chair)
>>
>>
>> On 1/23/2018 10:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>      I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text 
>>> format at got the following error:
>>>
>>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of 
>>> application/pdf.
>>>
>>> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> PS please remember Postel's law...
>>
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>
>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>
> 


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>,
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New
 DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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 <0239f28d-a650-b4de-cc09-343c53b3afe7@labn.net>
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Lou:

On 2018-01-29 14:35, Lou Berger wrote:
> On 01/29/2018 08:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Hi Lou,
>>=20
>> Looking at this now.
>>=20
>=20
> Thank you.
>=20
>> But will you please stop spamming the mailing lists with bug reports,
>> when you (as evidenced by the inclusion in the addressee list) are
>> perfectly well aware of the proper bug report email address?
>=20
> I'm completely unsure at this point who does what.

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org.

> WRT this message
> - DT project is included as the formal bug submission point, but past
> limited distribution elicited zero response.

Example please?  I'm not aware of any report to datatracker-project@ietf.=
org
that has not been acted on, either immediately or by recording it in the
issue tracker and acting on it as priority indicates.

> - tools-dev is included as DT is a paid support service

I don't understand your argument here?  How does this bug report require
tools development coordination?  Is it appropriate to elevate every
bug report to discussion in the monthly tools call?  I don't think so.
Please recall Robert's earlier reply to a question from you:

>> Tools-development is the place where the people guiding and doing the =

>> work on the tools coordinate - it's essentially the list for the team =

>> that meets on the tools calls.

> - tools-discuss is included as I suggested a technical change (followin=
g
> postel's lay and not checking mime type)

No, you were making a bug report.  It suggested a technical change, yes,
but in the absence of any data on why the problem appeared it could not
lead to any reasonable discussion.  And again: every bug report does not
have to be discussed.  The vast majority simply needs to be investigated
and corrected.  Tools-discuss is appropriate when it's not clear that
something is a bug, or whether a feature is salient and desirable, or
to see if an idea has support or could be refined.

> If you sense frustration on my part, you're right. Basic IETF process
> infrastructure is getting fancier, but harder to use - at least from my=

> perspective as a WG chair.  FWIW I really don't enjoy being a 'squeaky
> wheel' - I just want to get my work done and move on to the next task.
> If DT makes it harder, it'll just be less useful.

Do you at all understand the frustration of people trying to provide
support (primarily Robert and myself) when we ask people again and again
and again and again to provide bug reports in the appropriate channels,
and from some people see the bug reports consistently sent elsewhere?

Trying to support some people is a joy.  Others, not so much.

Do you truly believe that you get better response from people by banging
them over the head?


	Henrik

>=20
> Lou
>=20
>>=20
>> 	Henrik
>>=20
>> On 2018-01-29 13:49, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> The mime type checking on DT materials manager is causing more proble=
ms.=20
>>>   I suggest removing type checking for the time being.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to upload the attached (using chrome) as an agenda update =
and=20
>>> am seeing:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Revise Agenda for interim-2018-detnet-02 : detnet
>>>> =C3=97 Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected=
 one of text/plain, text/html.
>>>> Agenda file to upload. Note that you can only upload agendas in txt =
or html formats.
>>>>
>>>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of=
 text/plain, text/html.
>>>
>>>
>>> Please help the interim is in 2 days!
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Lou (as WG chair)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/23/2018 10:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>      I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in tex=
t=20
>>>> format at got the following error:
>>>>
>>>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of=
=20
>>>> application/pdf.
>>>>
>>>> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> PS please remember Postel's law...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>
>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>
>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>>
>>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20


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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, <datatracker-project@ietf.org>, <tools-discuss@ietf.org>, IETF Tools Development <tools-development@ietf.org>,  DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/goy3HJhlkV0VI3bTn8KKKjKS414>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Unable to upload text agenda to DT [was Re: New DT bug: unable to upload bluesheets in text format]
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Thank you for doing the manual post of the agenda. I won't waste anyone 
elses time by discussing this further on on any of these lists.


On January 29, 2018 9:04:57 AM Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:

> Lou:
>
> On 2018-01-29 14:35, Lou Berger wrote:
>> On 01/29/2018 08:10 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> Hi Lou,
>>>
>>> Looking at this now.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>> But will you please stop spamming the mailing lists with bug reports,
>>> when you (as evidenced by the inclusion in the addressee list) are
>>> perfectly well aware of the proper bug report email address?
>>
>> I'm completely unsure at this point who does what.
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org.
>
>> WRT this message
>> - DT project is included as the formal bug submission point, but past
>> limited distribution elicited zero response.
>
> Example please?  I'm not aware of any report to datatracker-project@ietf.org
> that has not been acted on, either immediately or by recording it in the
> issue tracker and acting on it as priority indicates.
>
>> - tools-dev is included as DT is a paid support service
>
> I don't understand your argument here?  How does this bug report require
> tools development coordination?  Is it appropriate to elevate every
> bug report to discussion in the monthly tools call?  I don't think so.
> Please recall Robert's earlier reply to a question from you:
>
>>> Tools-development is the place where the people guiding and doing the
>>> work on the tools coordinate - it's essentially the list for the team
>>> that meets on the tools calls.
>
>> - tools-discuss is included as I suggested a technical change (following
>> postel's lay and not checking mime type)
>
> No, you were making a bug report.  It suggested a technical change, yes,
> but in the absence of any data on why the problem appeared it could not
> lead to any reasonable discussion.  And again: every bug report does not
> have to be discussed.  The vast majority simply needs to be investigated
> and corrected.  Tools-discuss is appropriate when it's not clear that
> something is a bug, or whether a feature is salient and desirable, or
> to see if an idea has support or could be refined.
>
>> If you sense frustration on my part, you're right. Basic IETF process
>> infrastructure is getting fancier, but harder to use - at least from my
>> perspective as a WG chair.  FWIW I really don't enjoy being a 'squeaky
>> wheel' - I just want to get my work done and move on to the next task.
>> If DT makes it harder, it'll just be less useful.
>
> Do you at all understand the frustration of people trying to provide
> support (primarily Robert and myself) when we ask people again and again
> and again and again to provide bug reports in the appropriate channels,
> and from some people see the bug reports consistently sent elsewhere?
>
> Trying to support some people is a joy.  Others, not so much.
>
> Do you truly believe that you get better response from people by banging
> them over the head?
>
>
> 	Henrik
>
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>>
>>> 	Henrik
>>>
>>> On 2018-01-29 13:49, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>> The mime type checking on DT materials manager is causing more problems.
>>>>   I suggest removing type checking for the time being.
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to upload the attached (using chrome) as an agenda update and
>>>> am seeing:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Revise Agenda for interim-2018-detnet-02 : detnet
>>>>> × Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of 
>>>>> text/plain, text/html.
>>>>> Agenda file to upload. Note that you can only upload agendas in txt or html 
>>>>> formats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/x-c++. Expected one of 
>>>>> text/plain, text/html.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please help the interim is in 2 days!
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Lou (as WG chair)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/23/2018 10:28 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>      I was trying to upload a bluesheet for a virtual interim in text
>>>>> format at got the following error:
>>>>>
>>>>> Found content with unexpected mime type: text/plain. Expected one of
>>>>> application/pdf.
>>>>>
>>>>> other formats should be allowed at least for virtual interims.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>> PS please remember Postel's law...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>>
>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>>>
>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>>
>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>>
>



From nobody Wed Jan 31 11:09:14 2018
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] etherpad flaky and trouble reporting
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https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org  was offline Tuesday, and seems still flak=
y
this afternoon.  Many of us use it for design team meetings and the like.
Today, I connect and it works for half a minute, and then stops.

I'm sure that I'm reporting this in the wrong place :-)

Truth is that I don't have a good way to find out where to report what to
other than my fading brain cells.  Or what services have SLAs and which on=
es
do not.

First suggestion:
       www.ietf.org/problems   should list all the distinct services, and
                                point to where to report.

      (of course, if you can't get to that page, then the web site is
      broken...)

Second suggestion:
       if the name is in *.tools.ietf.org then the thing has no SLA, and w=
e
       shouldn't depend upon it, and there is no ticketing system to compl=
ain with.

       (I don't know if that is true.  Maybe this is unworkable)

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networ=
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]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architec=
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]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails =
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From nobody Wed Jan 31 11:38:29 2018
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Hi Michael,

I'm responding only through the list, not to you directly, in order to
be able to say this:  Please look at the bottom of this message, at the
list footer, and see if that gives you the information you need in order
to report an issue with etherpad.tools.ietf.org.

	Henrik

A few remarks inline, also.

On 2018-01-31 20:09, Michael Richardson wrote:
> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org  was offline Tuesday, and seems still f=
laky
> this afternoon.  Many of us use it for design team meetings and the lik=
e.
> Today, I connect and it works for half a minute, and then stops.
>=20
> I'm sure that I'm reporting this in the wrong place :-)
>=20
> Truth is that I don't have a good way to find out where to report what =
to
> other than my fading brain cells.  Or what services have SLAs and which=
 ones
> do not.
>=20
> First suggestion:
>        www.ietf.org/problems   should list all the distinct services, a=
nd
>                                 point to where to report.

I can of course put the info which is now in the footer, there too.  But
then you'll complain that there's no place that points to that page.
>=20
>       (of course, if you can't get to that page, then the web site is
>       broken...)
>=20
> Second suggestion:
>        if the name is in *.tools.ietf.org then the thing has no SLA, an=
d we
>        shouldn't depend upon it, and there is no ticketing system to co=
mplain
>        with.

The list pointer provides both a link to the ticketing system, which does=

exist, and a direct email address.

>        (I don't know if that is true.  Maybe this is unworkable)
>=20
> --
> ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh net=
works [
> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network archi=
tect  [
> ]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rai=
ls    [
>=20


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I hope you understand that I'm trying to make the situation better,
not just complaining.

Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
    > I'm responding only through the list, not to you directly, in order to
    > be able to say this:  Please look at the bottom of this message, at the
    > list footer, and see if that gives you the information you need in order
    > to report an issue with etherpad.tools.ietf.org.

>Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org

okay, I think that I got that.

At least, I figured out from reading it that etherpad.tools.ietf.org should
not be reported there to datatracker-project@ietf.org.

But, if my login doesn't work, or I need something tweaked with a document or
a permission that I think I should have, I think that datatracker-project is
the wrong place, and I should go to ietf-action or sometimes maybe the
secretariat directly.

And then there is mtd@ietf.org which I think is for meeting issues, but it also
applies to jabber issues, and jabber is used between meetings as well.
I don't know if I can use mtd@ietf.org between meetings, or which services it
would cover between meetings.  How would I get an ietf.webex.com account in
order to organize an virtual interim meeting?

I know that there is a page somewhere that tells me what to do with issues.
I found: https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/issues/ which reminded what
mtd@ was for and wasn't for.  I found that on the meeting page for 101.

>Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org

so it doesn' say "*.tools.ietf.org", and it says "bugs" not service
interruptions.
If I can't get to tools.ietf.org, then I should email.

I would not have been able to see that footer though unless I happened to
have a tools-discuss email around to look at... and I don't think I've ever
scrolled down that far before :-)

    > A few remarks inline, also.

    > On 2018-01-31 20:09, Michael Richardson wrote:
    >> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org  was offline Tuesday, and seems still flaky
    >> this afternoon.  Many of us use it for design team meetings and the like.
    >> Today, I connect and it works for half a minute, and then stops.
    >>
    >> I'm sure that I'm reporting this in the wrong place :-)
    >>
    >> Truth is that I don't have a good way to find out where to report what to
    >> other than my fading brain cells.  Or what services have SLAs and which ones
    >> do not.
    >>
    >> First suggestion:
    >> www.ietf.org/problems   should list all the distinct services, and
    >> point to where to report.

    > I can of course put the info which is now in the footer, there too.  But
    > then you'll complain that there's no place that points to that page.

Yes, that's true.
But maybe we can socialize a single place better than the algorithm that you
provided in the footer.

    >> (of course, if you can't get to that page, then the web site is
    >> broken...)
    >>
    >> Second suggestion:
    >> if the name is in *.tools.ietf.org then the thing has no SLA, and we
    >> shouldn't depend upon it, and there is no ticketing system to complain
    >> with.

    > The list pointer provides both a link to the ticketing system, which does
    > exist, and a direct email address.

I'm not sure that the average IETF'er needs or should be be on tools-discuss
to report a problem with the infrastructure.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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Hi Michael,

On 2018-01-31 23:22, Michael Richardson wrote:
>=20
> I hope you understand that I'm trying to make the situation better,
> not just complaining.

Yes :-)

I also understand from the additional examples below that you are pointin=
g
at an issue which is much larger than just the datatracker and tools.ietf=
=2Eorg.

Some additional thoughts inline:

> Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
>     > I'm responding only through the list, not to you directly, in ord=
er to
>     > be able to say this:  Please look at the bottom of this message, =
at the
>     > list footer, and see if that gives you the information you need i=
n order
>     > to report an issue with etherpad.tools.ietf.org.
>=20
>>Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>>bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>>or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>=20
> okay, I think that I got that.

:-)

> At least, I figured out from reading it that etherpad.tools.ietf.org sh=
ould
> not be reported there to datatracker-project@ietf.org.
>=20
> But, if my login doesn't work, or I need something tweaked with a docum=
ent or
> a permission that I think I should have, I think that datatracker-proje=
ct is
> the wrong place, and I should go to ietf-action or sometimes maybe the
> secretariat directly.

Ok, with respect to non-bug issues related to tools, I think I'll tweak t=
he
text in the footer a bit, so it's clear that the email address there is v=
alid
for _all_ issues related to *.tools.ietf.org.  Good point.

> And then there is mtd@ietf.org which I think is for meeting issues, but=
 it also
> applies to jabber issues, and jabber is used between meetings as well.
> I don't know if I can use mtd@ietf.org between meetings, or which servi=
ces it
> would cover between meetings.  How would I get an ietf.webex.com accoun=
t in
> order to organize an virtual interim meeting?
>=20
> I know that there is a page somewhere that tells me what to do with iss=
ues.
> I found: https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/issues/ which reminded what
> mtd@ was for and wasn't for.  I found that on the meeting page for 101.=

>=20
>>Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>>http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>>or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>=20
> so it doesn' say "*.tools.ietf.org", and it says "bugs" not service
> interruptions.
> If I can't get to tools.ietf.org, then I should email.

Ack.  I'll tweak the text.

> I would not have been able to see that footer though unless I happened =
to
> have a tools-discuss email around to look at... and I don't think I've =
ever
> scrolled down that far before :-)

Heh.  But that text _is_ intended for all the issues that still are repor=
ted
on this list, rather than to the points of contact given in the footer.

The wider issue you point at above clearly needs a different handling.

>     > A few remarks inline, also.
>=20
>     > On 2018-01-31 20:09, Michael Richardson wrote:
>     >> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org  was offline Tuesday, and seems =
still flaky
>     >> this afternoon.  Many of us use it for design team meetings and =
the like.
>     >> Today, I connect and it works for half a minute, and then stops.=

>     >>
>     >> I'm sure that I'm reporting this in the wrong place :-)
>     >>
>     >> Truth is that I don't have a good way to find out where to repor=
t what to
>     >> other than my fading brain cells.  Or what services have SLAs an=
d which ones
>     >> do not.
>     >>
>     >> First suggestion:
>     >> www.ietf.org/problems   should list all the distinct services, a=
nd
>     >> point to where to report.
>=20
>     > I can of course put the info which is now in the footer, there to=
o.  But
>     > then you'll complain that there's no place that points to that pa=
ge.
>=20
> Yes, that's true.
> But maybe we can socialize a single place better than the algorithm tha=
t you
> provided in the footer.

Maybe.  At the moment I'm thinking of having a summary of the appropriate=

points of contact on one single page, with a link directly from the
www.ietf.org front page, and also from the datatracker.  (Although I'm no=
t
sure how often people find the bug reporting link which is already in the=

datatracker menus...)

>     >> (of course, if you can't get to that page, then the web site is
>     >> broken...)
>     >>
>     >> Second suggestion:
>     >> if the name is in *.tools.ietf.org then the thing has no SLA, an=
d we
>     >> shouldn't depend upon it, and there is no ticketing system to co=
mplain
>     >> with.
>=20
>     > The list pointer provides both a link to the ticketing system, wh=
ich does
>     > exist, and a direct email address.
>=20
> I'm not sure that the average IETF'er needs or should be be on tools-di=
scuss
> to report a problem with the infrastructure.

Agreed, indeed not.

Best,

	Henrik


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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <13373.1517425749@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <699036cf-c26a-a69d-e2d2-fb92edc2a6fd@levkowetz.com> <31095.1517437320@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <07d83aeb-5e03-4bc6-fa9f-79a2547861b0@levkowetz.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <d4843e53-6423-9843-4406-6ba2f7b8dd55@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 14:40:45 +1300
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/7BBzMbXPShE2JFjyCIDCNi15vEQ>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] etherpad flaky and trouble reporting
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On 01/02/2018 12:32, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
...
>> Yes, that's true.
>> But maybe we can socialize a single place better than the algorithm that you
>> provided in the footer.
> 
> Maybe.  At the moment I'm thinking of having a summary of the appropriate
> points of contact on one single page, with a link directly from the
> www.ietf.org front page, and also from the datatracker.  (Although I'm not
> sure how often people find the bug reporting link which is already in the
> datatracker menus...)

There's already https://www.ietf.org/contact/ if you can stand the Stupid Large
Font, but it has too many words and omits http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
and http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues.

It's linked quite prominently from the top menu bar on https://www.ietf.org
and from https://www.ietf.org/links/. So I'd expect people to look there
first. 

    Brian