From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 1 17:05:59 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05429; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:05:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cw6S2-0001dV-Ra; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:24:52 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cw5mn-0004Mp-7s; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:42:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cw5Is-0006P7-AI for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:11:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20428 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cw5b3-0005VU-Ft for tools-team@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:30:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497491CD916 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09167-08 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC4C61CD84E for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:11:12 -0500 (EST) To: IETF Tools From: stanislav shalunov Date: 01 Feb 2005 16:11:11 -0500 Message-ID: <86u0owhtow.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 47 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Subject: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca The current version of the Requirements for Document Notification Service document, draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt, has the following remaining work items: * The representation of an event as a 9-tuple (and of a list of events) in RSS (and Atom) needs to be defined (sections 7.2 and 7.3). * Phases of tool development need to be described (section 9). * The way to protect IETF mailing list from being unsubscribed from email notifications by mailing list subscribers needs to be worked out (section 10). I would like some input from the team on these issues. RSS and Atom representation of events I especially need your input and help on this one. - can the same element names for custom fields (document tag, etc.) be used to in RSS and Atom? - which of the members of the event tuple have standard element names? Phases of tool development It would seem to me that the first implementation should only do the easy parts and leave the more difficult parts for later. The information that can be automatically obtained from the I-D repository, the I-D tracker, and the public representation of the RFC editor queue without much magic are easy; the rest is hard. So, we'd have two phases of development. Does this plan seem right? Third-party-managed subscriptions A mechanism is needed for a WG chair to subscribe the WG list to notifications in such a way that WG list subscribers can't alter. Should this be a special case? How is WG chair authentication handled? Do we punt by saying that human interaction is required? Do we include this functionality in the first phase? -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ "You wake me up early in the morning to tell me I am right? Please wait until I am wrong." -- John von Neumann, on being phoned at 10 a.m. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 1 17:10:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06334; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:10:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cw6WU-0001sK-D9; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:29:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cw5sY-0000Hj-QW; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:48:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cw5R4-0003H8-EE for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:19:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22616 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:19:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cw5jH-0006BY-To for tools-team@ietf.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:38:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 930411CD797 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:19:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11201-09 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:19:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B381CD53D for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:19:43 -0500 (EST) To: IETF Tools From: stanislav shalunov Date: 01 Feb 2005 16:19:36 -0500 Message-ID: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Subject: [Tools-team] email document delivery service X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d At present, the I-D announcements include a way to request the document to be sent to you in its entirety via email. The particular way this is done never worked for me (don't know if my MIME readers -- metamail and Gnus -- are deficient or the MIME in the messages is broken), and I never bothered to get this part working as I am perfectly happy with an rsync copy of the RFC and I-D repositories. However, some IETF participants seem to like this service (it might even work for them). Should a way to deliver documents via email be provided in whatever we specify that will supplement/replace the current announcements system? If so, should this email delivery mechanism be a part of the notification service or should it be a separate email delivery service? It's no big deal to set up a file server with procmail recipes or something like that, but the question is whether the notifications have no know the interface to that service... -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ Al your Qaeda are belong to US. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 09:54:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA11106; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwMCH-0001GB-Rd; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:13:38 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwLiQ-00007d-EB; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:42:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwLdm-0006Xg-0K for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:37:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09222; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:37:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from av1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.105]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwLw8-0000f4-IH; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:56:57 -0500 Received: by av1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id D30DC37E5E; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:37:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.177]) by av1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEDD037E47; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:37:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D93C3802D; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:37:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CwLd9-0006jf-QK; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:37:19 +0100 Message-ID: <4200E591.6080501@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:37:05 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iesg-secretary@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1852b4f554b02e7e4548cc7928acc1f Cc: IETF TOOLS Subject: [Tools-team] Request for publication of draft-ietf-tools-draft-submission-07.txt X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1820836804==" Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1820836804== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigDCF4D644A076596A8FA05221" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigDCF4D644A076596A8FA05221 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a request to advance the draft: draft-ietf-tools-draft-submission-07.txt to Informational RFC status. Answers to Questions: > 1) Have the chairs personally reviewed this version of the ID and do > they believe this ID is sufficiently baked to forward to the IESG > for publication? Yes, the draft was reviewed by Henrik Levkowetz > 2) Has the document had adequate review from both key WG members and > key non-WG members? Do you have any concerns about the depth or > breadth of the reviews that have been performed? The document has been reviewed by both WG members and external reviewers, and I believe the review to be adequate. > 3) Do you have concerns that the document needs more review from a > particular (broader) perspective (e.g., security, operational > complexity, someone familiar with AAA, etc.)? No concerns. > 4) Do you have any specific concerns/issues with this document that > you believe the ADs and/or IESG should be aware of? For example, > perhaps you are uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, > or whether there really is a need for it, etc., but at the same > time these issues have been discussed in the WG and the WG has > indicated it wishes to advance the document anyway. No concerns. There are minor language nits which should be fixed, but it's not worth doing another revision before submitting for publication. > 5) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it > represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others > being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with > it? The team as a whole is behind this document. > 6) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme > discontent? If so, please summarize what are they upset about. No. > 7) Have the chairs verified that the document adheres to _all_ of the > ID nits? (see http://www.ietf.org/ID-nits.html). Yes. > 8) For Standards Track and BCP documents, the IESG approval > announcement includes a writeup section with the following > sections: > > - Technical Summary > - Working Group Summary > - Protocol Quality > > Please provide such a writeup. (We will hopefully use it as is, but > may make some changes.) For recent examples, have a look at the > "protocol action" announcements for approved documents. > > Note: > > - When doing the technical summary, one would expect that the > relevant information is in the abstract and/or introduction of > the document. It turns out that the step of producing the writeup > sometimes points out deficiencies in the introduction/abstract > that are also worthy of rectifying. > > - For the Working Group Summary, was there anything in WG process > that is worth noting? (E.g., controversy about particular points, > decisions where consensus was particularly rough, etc.) > > - For the protocol quality, useful information could include: > > - is the protocol already being implemented? > > - have a significant number of vendors indicated they plan to > implement the spec? > > - are there any reviewers (during the end stages) that merit > explicit mention as having done a thorough review that resulted > in important changes or a conclusion that the document was fine > (except for maybe some nits?) This is a submission on the Informational track, but here is a writeup anyway: Technical Summary The document describes a toolset (web interface, email interface and validation and authorization routines) for automatic submission of internet-drafts to the internet-drafts repository. The toolset is described functionally and by explicit requirements, with implementation separated in 3 stages: Trial, Production and Enhancement. The toolset is intended for use both by IETF participants at large, and internally by the Secretariat. Working Group Summary The draft was produced and reviewed in the Tools team. Protocol Quality (Not applicable) --------------enigDCF4D644A076596A8FA05221 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCAOWfeVhrtTJkXCMRAh1zAKDYSG6nxh4U6P/XU1ZeOSPzzP7DzwCgnoJg yGYutQBxKMs+wSkqPpCHL3I= =yzd+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigDCF4D644A076596A8FA05221-- --===============1820836804== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team --===============1820836804==-- From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 10:03:31 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12266; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwMKx-0001YO-CG; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:22:35 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwLvd-0004PK-Iz; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:56:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwLmE-0000xl-Ca for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:46:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10213 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:46:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.107]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwM4b-0000wJ-P2 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:05:42 -0500 Received: by av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 16B8237E5D; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:46:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034E737E42 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:46:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03B137E43 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:46:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CwLlf-0006vB-KJ for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:46:07 +0100 Message-ID: <4200E7B0.1060907@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:46:08 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 2 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here is the proposed agenda for today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on missing minutes from last teleconference. 3. Status a. of I-D submission tool draft b. of Notification draft c. of I-D information draft d. of WG draft info pages 4. Action item review. * Stas: Continue looking at Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. * Henrik: Submit draft-submission draft for publication when * Donald: Write up modified scheduling tool proposal, based on discussion last week 5. Action items for next meeting 6. Any other business. 7. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 9 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 13:06:11 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06917; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwPBk-0007tz-O9; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:25:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwOsC-00038P-NH; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:05:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwOlL-0001Ir-79 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:57:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA06037 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:57:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from av3-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwP3j-0007a0-2q for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:17:00 -0500 Received: by av3-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id CB63937E5E; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:57:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av3-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC10537E47 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:57:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2DB37E5C for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:57:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CwOkn-00023B-FE for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:57:25 +0100 Message-ID: <42011486.2080302@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:57:26 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 2 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here are the minutes for today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 0. Present: Stas, Bill, Henrik 1. Agenda bashing Nothing 2. Comments on missing minutes from last teleconference. Nothing 3. Status a. of I-D submission tool draft Publication has been requested for this b. of Notification draft - There was a discussion about which RSS variant to use, which landed on 0.9. - Phases of development ? At least 2, preferably more, as we will want to be able to hand out the spec. for start of implementation before it's ready for publication. - How to handle mailing lists subscribed to the notification services, so that they weren't open to arbitrary un- subscription from anybody? Use a list of tuples WGs/mailing-list address/chair addresses, and require confirmation from the chairs for subscription/unsubscription of addresses on that list c. of I-D information draft Alex is on vacation, skeleton draft exists d. of WG draft info pages Henrik is working on making draft info pages a la those on his own site available for all workgroups on tools.ietf.org 4. Action item review. * Stas: Continue looking at Notification Service Requirements. Done, to be continued * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. - * Henrik: Submit draft-submission draft for publication when Done * Donald: Write up modified scheduling tool proposal, based on discussion last week No report 5. Action items for next meeting * Stas: Continue looking at Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. * Bill: Help with the mapping of notification elements to RSS 0.9 * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom 6. Any other business. Nothing 7. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 9 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 13:23:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09364; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwPSo-0000CF-1Z; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:42:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwP3p-0006pQ-FY; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:17:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwOvv-0003sr-21 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:08:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07134 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:08:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwPEJ-0007yH-Dx for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:27:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F551CD7BA; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14849-07; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B991CD6EF; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:08:52 -0500 (EST) To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org From: stanislav shalunov Date: 02 Feb 2005 13:08:55 -0500 Message-ID: <86wttqsuko.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: IETF Tools Subject: [Tools-team] Machine-readable RFC editor queue X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Dear RFC Editor, The IETF Tools team is working on a document that defines requirements for an automated service that would benefit from examination of the RFC editor queue (draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt). What is the best way for an automated tool to examine the queue? Is parsing http://www.rfc-editor.org/queue.html the right thing or is there a better way? Thank you, -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed with 0.06479891g of NaCl. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 13:41:24 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12181; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwPjp-0000y8-JH; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:00:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwPLk-0004xs-Kj; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:35:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwPCT-0001uw-Ly for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:26:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09834 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from boreas.isi.edu ([128.9.160.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwPUs-0000H4-8V for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:45:03 -0500 Received: from gra.isi.edu (gra.isi.edu [128.9.160.133]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j12IOHQ06658; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:24:17 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Braden Received: (from braden@localhost) by gra.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) id KAA01532; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:24:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:24:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200502021824.KAA01532@gra.isi.edu> To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, shalunov@internet2.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-ISI-4-30-3-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: braden@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: Machine-readable RFC editor queue X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 *> *> Dear RFC Editor, *> *> The IETF Tools team is working on a document that defines requirements *> for an automated service that would benefit from examination of the *> RFC editor queue (draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt). *> *> What is the best way for an automated tool to examine the queue? Is *> parsing http://www.rfc-editor.org/queue.html the right thing or is *> there a better way? There is no better way currently (in fact, we do exactly that in some internal tools we have for collecting a historical record), but we hope that within a month we will have a more regularized database from which the information can be easily extracted. We will keep you informed. RFC Editor *> *> Thank you, *> -- *> Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ *> *> This message is designed to be viewed with 0.06479891g of NaCl. *> _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 15:00:22 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21633; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwQyF-0003ij-JD; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:19:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwQbS-0004jX-TX; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:55:54 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwQWD-0002Zw-QA for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:50:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19957 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:50:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwQoc-0003HR-VE for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:09:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170EA1CD935; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07838-01; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:50:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04BB1CD921; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:50:26 -0500 (EST) To: Bob Braden References: <200502021824.KAA01532@gra.isi.edu> From: stanislav shalunov Date: 02 Feb 2005 14:50:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200502021824.KAA01532@gra.isi.edu> Message-ID: <86oef2spvf.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: Machine-readable RFC editor queue X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Bob Braden writes: > [...W]e hope that within a month we will have a more regularized > database from which the information can be easily extracted. Do you already know how the database would be exported to the outside world? Will it be an XML file or something else? (Or too early to tell?) > We will keep you informed. Thank you. -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed at an angle of 45 degrees. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 2 18:02:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22882; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:02:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwToo-0005mA-E5; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:21:55 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwTO6-0007zV-R2; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:54:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwTLK-0006r8-Pq for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:51:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21833 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:51:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from boreas.isi.edu ([128.9.160.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwTdl-0005OE-Cq for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:10:31 -0500 Received: from gra.isi.edu (gra.isi.edu [128.9.160.133]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j12MnoQ25707; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:49:50 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Braden Received: (from braden@localhost) by gra.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) id OAA01582; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:49:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:49:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200502022249.OAA01582@gra.isi.edu> To: braden@ISI.EDU, shalunov@internet2.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-ISI-4-30-3-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: braden@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: tools-team@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: Machine-readable RFC editor queue X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 *> Bob Braden writes: *> *> > [...W]e hope that within a month we will have a more regularized *> > database from which the information can be easily extracted. *> *> Do you already know how the database would be exported to the outside *> world? Will it be an XML file or something else? (Or too early to *> tell?) *> Too early to tell. Bob _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 19:21:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10832; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:21:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwrX0-0005Pu-M6; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:41:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwrAJ-0008Jb-0m; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:17:39 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwr78-0007O6-Tv for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:14:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10169 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:14:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwrPm-0005Dz-S3 for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:33:40 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j140EJ3a072797 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:14:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:14:04 -0700 To: "IETF Tools" Subject: Re: [Tools-team] email document delivery service References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> From: "Alex Rousskov" Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54u1 (FreeBSD, build 892) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 2005/02/01 (MST), wrote: > At present, the I-D announcements include a way to request the > document to be sent to you in its entirety via email. The particular > way this is done never worked for me (don't know if my MIME readers -- > metamail and Gnus -- are deficient or the MIME in the messages is > broken), and I never bothered to get this part working as I am > perfectly happy with an rsync copy of the RFC and I-D repositories. > However, some IETF participants seem to like this service (it might > even work for them). > > Should a way to deliver documents via email be provided in whatever we > specify that will supplement/replace the current announcements system? > > If so, should this email delivery mechanism be a part of the > notification service or should it be a separate email delivery > service? > > It's no big deal to set up a file server with procmail recipes or > something like that, but the question is whether the notifications > have no know the interface to that service... I think there has been at least one debate regarding the usefullness of email draft delivery service on the RFC Editor "interest" list(?). Opinions varied. If folks who spend IETF resources on email delivery service decide to keep it, I would argue that it should be separate from the notification service. A notification message should contain a URI of the new draft version or other event page, as applicable. Retrieving that resource (via HTTP, SMTP, or any other protocol) should not be a part of the notification mechanism. Motivated folks can write and share a script to automate the retrieval, of course. Thanks, Alex. P.S. My apologies if this has been discussed already. I did not see this topic covered in the minutes. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 19:56:01 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13803; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cws4A-0006PA-8X; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:15:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwrj4-0003v8-6m; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:53:34 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwrh6-0002LI-U9 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:51:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13470 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:51:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cwrzl-0006HT-LX for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:10:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858A21CD701 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:51:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31792-01 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:51:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FC11CD713 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:51:28 -0500 (EST) To: "IETF Tools" Subject: Re: [Tools-team] email document delivery service References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> From: stanislav shalunov Date: 03 Feb 2005 19:51:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86acqljgfj.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 60 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da "Alex Rousskov" writes: > I think there has been at least one debate regarding the usefullness > of email draft delivery service on the RFC Editor "interest" list(?). > Opinions varied. I remember these debates. I remember that there would be some who would claim that the service is vital to their needs. Depending on how all the software is set up, it might even be convenient for some. For example, one can imagine a user who reads all (or many) draft announcements, and then requests some of them via email. When they come, they get stored in a convenient place. That place is the only place this hypothetical person (who might not even actually exist) uses to store internet-drafts he reads. The person is often poorly and sporadically connected (a road warrior who reads email on airplanes and is connected via slow dial-up every now and then), so rsyncing at the same time as downloading email wastes his precious dial-up capacity (he might want to read 1% of the drafts that come out, not 100%), and waiting until he gets to a reasonable connection increases his draft-reading latency. For such a person, having a separate mechanism (Agora-like, perhaps) to request URIs via email would not do the trick if their MUA does not make it easy to send these requests. Unless our hypothetical person wrote his own MUA, it's unlikely that this third-party Agora-like service would be integrated into his MUA. On the other hand, if the notification service included, say, mailto: URLs to retrieve the documents, he would likely be able to easily continue using his current arrangements. That means, however, that the notification service would need to know the interface to the email delivery service. Since the email delivery service isn't specified anywhere, there's an obvious difficulty. > If folks who spend IETF resources on email delivery service decide to > keep it, I would argue that it should be separate from the > notification service. I agree. > A notification message should contain a URI of > the new draft version or other event page, as applicable. Retrieving > that resource (via HTTP, SMTP, or any other protocol) should not be a > part of the notification mechanism. Motivated folks can write and > share a script to automate the retrieval, of course. But that script wouldn't be enough to replace the current scheme (if it works for anyone): you'd also need a mechanism to easily invoke that script on a URI in the displayed message. > P.S. My apologies if this has been discussed already. I did not see > this topic covered in the minutes. Nope, it wasn't discussed. Thanks a lot for your input! -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." -- E. W. Dijkstra _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 20:14:45 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14817; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwsMG-0006qV-4L; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:34:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwryv-0008Kl-Tl; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:09:57 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwrn4-000513-HR; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:57:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13921; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:57:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cws5j-0006Rn-9X; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:17:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3111CD713; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:57:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32438-01; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:57:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5C41CD701; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:57:40 -0500 (EST) To: ietf@ietf.org References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> From: stanislav shalunov Date: 03 Feb 2005 19:57:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <866519jg56.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-team] email document delivery service X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Internet-draft announcements, as they are currently generated, include a MIME-based mechanism to request internet-drafts via email. Do you use this feature? If you do, could you please let me know? Background: the IETF Tools team is working on a draft, draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt, that specifies the requirements for a document notification service. We'd like to better understand how email document delivery is actually used. -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed at room temperature. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 20:17:01 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15002; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwsOT-0006u3-2x; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:36:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwrzS-0008VZ-Ov; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:10:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwrsI-0006fq-QD for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:03:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14213 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com ([192.20.225.110] helo=mail-white.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwsAy-0006Zm-OO for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:22:24 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07DCA7B2F; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j1412ZCP021608; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:02:35 -0800 Message-Id: <200502040102.j1412ZCP021608@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: shalunov@internet2.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-team] email document delivery service Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:02:35 -0800 From: Bill Fenner Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c I don't have an MUA that knows the mail-server content type either, although it looks well formed (mine can fetch from the second of the multipart/alternative message/external-body parts, which specifies anonymous ftp). However, I used the commands listed in the body of the email, which agree with what the MIME says to do, and got a "no such user" bounce, so I doubt that this service [currently] works for anyone. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 20:17:09 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA15044; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:17:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwsOa-0006wC-87; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:36:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwrzn-00008f-7H; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:10:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwrvh-0007YR-1G for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:06:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14388 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:06:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwsEL-0006eJ-TE for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:25:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052891CD703 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:06:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01249-05 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:06:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B993B1CD6C0 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:06:34 -0500 (EST) To: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] email document delivery service References: <200502040102.j1412ZCP021608@bright.research.att.com> From: stanislav shalunov Date: 03 Feb 2005 20:06:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200502040102.j1412ZCP021608@bright.research.att.com> Message-ID: <861xbxjfqc.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Bill Fenner writes: > [...] I used the commands listed in the body of the email, which > agree with what the MIME says to do, and got a "no such user" > bounce, so I doubt that this service [currently] works for anyone. Ah, I haven't thought to check. Thank you. Before I got your message, I sent a message to the general IETF list asking for users of this service to come forward. Let's see if anyone claims he's been using this service forever! -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ All revolutions are bloody. The October Revolution was bloodless, but it was only the beginning. -- Dmitri Volkogonov _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 23:42:13 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA02210; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:42:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cwvb6-0004IF-Bp; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:01:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwv02-0006cE-9I; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:23:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwuxz-00062F-Iu for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:21:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA00841 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:21:09 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from fep18.inet.fi ([194.251.242.243]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwvGg-0003cx-3F for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:40:31 -0500 Received: from [10.103.123.14] ([212.213.204.99]) by fep18.inet.fi with ESMTP id <20050204042106.CVGT17327.fep18.inet.fi@[10.103.123.14]>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 06:21:06 +0200 To: stanislav shalunov Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 06:20:03 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: EPOC Email Version 2.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: i-default X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: email document delivery service X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: john.loughney@nokia.com List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1478573800==" Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e This is a MIME Message --===============1478573800== Content-Language: i-default Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="EPOC32-hmT,zzq2nNdKt6Lp'vCkhd'3Y82c9xY+Snt8q5_ZLSlpzG87" This is a MIME Message --EPOC32-hmT,zzq2nNdKt6Lp'vCkhd'3Y82c9xY+Snt8q5_ZLSlpzG87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Never used this feature, never had a need to. John ------------------- Original message ------------------- Subject: email document delivery service From: stanislav shalunov Time: 02/03/2005 7:57 pm Internet-draft announcements, as they are currently generated, = include a MIME-based mechanism to request internet-drafts via email. Do you use this feature? If you do, could you please let me know? Background: the IETF Tools team is working on a draft, draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt, that specifies the requirements for a document notification service. We'd like to better understand how email document delivery is actually used. --=20 Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed at room temperature. _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf --EPOC32-hmT,zzq2nNdKt6Lp'vCkhd'3Y82c9xY+Snt8q5_ZLSlpzG87 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDMuMiBG aW5hbC8vRU4iPg0KPEhUTUw+IA0KPEhFQUQ+IA0KPFRJVExFPkNvbnZlcnRl ZCBmcm9tIFJpY2ggVGV4dDwvVElUTEU+DQo8TUVUQSBIVFRQLUVRVUlWPSJD b250ZW50LVR5cGUiIENPTlRFTlQ9InRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1VVEYt OCI+PE1FVEEgTkFNRT0iZ2VuZXJhdG9yIiBDT05URU5UPSJydDJodG1sIGNv bnZlcnRlciI+DQo8L0hFQUQ+IA0KPEJPRFkgQkdDT0xPUj0iI2ZmZmZmZiIg VEVYVD0iIzAwMDAwMCI+DQo8RElWIEFMSUdOPUxFRlQ+TmV2ZXIgdXNlZCB0 aGlzIGZlYXR1cmUsIG5ldmVyIGhhZCBhIG5lZWQgdG8uPC9ESVY+IA0KPERJ ViBBTElHTj1MRUZUPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPjxESVYgQUxJR049TEVGVD5Kb2hu PC9ESVY+IA0KPERJViBBTElHTj1MRUZUPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPjxESVYgQUxJ R049TEVGVD4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIG1lc3NhZ2Ug LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTwvRElWPiANCjxESVYgQUxJR049TEVGVD5T dWJqZWN0OiBlbWFpbCBkb2N1bWVudCBkZWxpdmVyeSBzZXJ2aWNlPC9ESVY+ IA0KPERJViBBTElHTj1MRUZUPkZyb206IHN0YW5pc2xhdiBzaGFsdW5vdiAm bHQ7c2hhbHVub3ZAaW50ZXJuZXQyLmVkdSZndDs8L0RJVj4gDQo8RElWIEFM SUdOPUxFRlQ+VGltZTogMDIvMDMvMjAwNSA3OjU3IHBtPC9ESVY+IA0KPERJ ViBBTElHTj1MRUZUPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPjxESVYgQUxJR049TEVGVD5JbnRl cm5ldC1kcmFmdCBhbm5vdW5jZW1lbnRzLCBhcyB0aGV5IGFyZSBjdXJyZW50 bHkgZ2VuZXJhdGVkLCBpbmNsdWRlPEJSPmEgTUlNRS1iYXNlZCBtZWNoYW5p c20gdG8gcmVxdWVzdCBpbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMgdmlhIGVtYWlsLiAgRG8g eW91PEJSPnVzZSB0aGlzIGZlYXR1cmU/ICBJZiB5b3UgZG8sIGNvdWxkIHlv dSBwbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1lIGtub3c/PEJSPjwvRElWPiANCjxESVYgQUxJR049 TEVGVD5CYWNrZ3JvdW5kOiB0aGUgSUVURiBUb29scyB0ZWFtIGlzIHdvcmtp bmcgb24gYSBkcmFmdCw8QlI+ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi10b29scy1ub3RpZmljYXRp b24tMDMudHh0LCB0aGF0IHNwZWNpZmllcyB0aGUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzPEJS PmZvciBhIGRvY3VtZW50IG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBzZXJ2aWNlLiAgV2UnZCBs aWtlIHRvIGJldHRlciB1bmRlcnN0YW5kPEJSPmhvdyBlbWFpbCBkb2N1bWVu dCBkZWxpdmVyeSBpcyBhY3R1YWxseSB1c2VkLjxCUj48L0RJVj4gDQo8RElW IEFMSUdOPUxFRlQ+LS0gPEJSPlN0YW5pc2xhdiBTaGFsdW5vdiAgaHR0cDov L3d3dy5pbnRlcm5ldDIuZWR1L35zaGFsdW5vdi88QlI+PC9ESVY+IA0KPERJ ViBBTElHTj1MRUZUPlRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBkZXNpZ25lZCB0byBiZSB2 aWV3ZWQgYXQgcm9vbSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVyZS48QlI+PC9ESVY+IA0KPERJViBB TElHTj1MRUZUPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fPEJSPklldGYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PEJSPklldGZAaWV0 Zi5vcmc8QlI+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vaWV0ZjxCUj48L0RJVj4gDQo8L0JPRFk+DQo8L0hUTUw+IA0K --EPOC32-hmT,zzq2nNdKt6Lp'vCkhd'3Y82c9xY+Snt8q5_ZLSlpzG87-- --===============1478573800== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team --===============1478573800==-- From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 3 23:52:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03235; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cwvkr-0004ZO-Cv; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:11:42 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwvJK-0001u1-EI; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:43:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwvBp-0008GT-EM for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:35:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA01845 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:35:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com ([192.20.225.110] helo=mail-white.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwvUV-0003xx-Ou for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:54:49 -0500 Received: from windsor.research.att.com (windsor.research.att.com [135.207.26.46]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EAB1974F5; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by windsor.research.att.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.8.5) id j144YtI08508; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:34:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200502040434.j144YtI08508@windsor.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: shalunov@internet2.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:34:55 -0800 From: Bill Fenner Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab RSS "feeds" usually give the "top headlines"; in this case I'd say it'd be the most recent events matching the request. RSS XML is generally: This is an event feed for draft-foo-bar http://tools.ietf.org/events.cgi?tag=draft-foo-bar This lists the most recent 15 events for draft-foo-bar Thu, Feb 3 2005 20:23:50 +0800 Bill's fingers draft-foo-bar submitted to IESG for publication A formal request has been made to advance/publish the document, following the procedures in Section 7.5 of [RFC2418]. The request could be from a WG chair, from an individual through the RFC Editor, etc. A document in this state has not (yet) been reviewed by an AD nor has any official action been taken on it. (Event URL) http://tools.ietf.org/event-category/IESG-SUBMIT draft-foo-bar working group last call ... I came up with the following possible mappings: RSS Tag RSS Version - 1. Document tag - 2. Serial number 2.0 - 3. Document (new) name - 4. Document (new) state - 5. Date and time 2.0 - 6. Event title 0.91 - 7. Event abstract <description> 0.91 - 8. Event URL <link> 0.91 - 9. Event type <category> 0.92 Some of the mappings are a little weak, in particular event type to <category>. Of course the mappings to rss2.0 elements might be iffy, and we should look at reader behavior specifically. I'm working on a script to turn my event database into events of this format in order to try them out with various rss readers and see what we get. I'll create an intermediate XML format with the 9-tuple so that we can use XSL to do the atom mapping to do the same experiments in both formats. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 00:32:06 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06835; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwwNM-0005kl-Tk; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:51:30 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwvyq-0004BJ-BM; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:26:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwvxD-0003Gv-EW for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:24:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06045 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:24:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-24-8-141-221.client.comcast.net ([24.8.141.221] helo=volx.rousskov.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwwFu-0005Uu-8O for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:43:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.rousskov.org (localhost.rousskov.org [127.0.0.1]) by volx.rousskov.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j145NbDk007543 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:23:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) To: "IETF Tools" <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] email document delivery service References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <opslnb9qsniz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> <86acqljgfj.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Message-ID: <opslnqlmpviz3etf0c9082f7@localhost.rousskov.org> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:23:36 -0700 From: "Alex Rousskov" <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <86acqljgfj.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (FreeBSD, build 751) X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 2005/02/03 (MST), <shalunov@internet2.edu> wrote: > But that script wouldn't be enough to replace the current scheme (if > it works for anyone): you'd also need a mechanism to easily invoke > that script on a URI in the displayed message. IMHO, URI-cut-and-paste, save-message-to-a-well-known-folder, or any similar URI selection mechanism would work well enough for the extreme cases we can come up with. Furthermore, one can imagine a wrapper service that adds MIME retrieval magic to standard/plain notification messages. However, discussing this any further would most likely re-open the endless debate about how many users make a given free IETF service worth supporting. Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 00:45:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07589; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwwaV-000659-6z; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:05:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwwFE-0004OG-Oo; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:43:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cww5u-0006QZ-GA for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:33:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06967 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:33:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwwOb-0005mM-RU for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:52:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC041CD926 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05458-08 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04801CD8B3 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:33:23 -0500 (EST) To: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt References: <200502040434.j144YtI08508@windsor.research.att.com> From: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> Date: 04 Feb 2005 00:33:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200502040434.j144YtI08508@windsor.research.att.com> Message-ID: <86hdkshot7.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 25 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> writes: > RSS "feeds" usually give the "top headlines"; in this case I'd say > it'd be the most recent events matching the request. RSS XML is > generally: [...] Bill, Thank you. This is great. One note: I was assuming that the RSS file for a given tag would contain all events related to that tag, rather than last N. Does <category> have to be a valid URL or can we get away with an opaque character string, e.g., "IESG-SUBMIT"? Is guid supposed to be globally unique (like email message-id) or unique only within the feed? (In the former case, adding the document tag would help.) Thanks again, --Stas -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ Beware of Programmers who carry screwdrivers. -- Leonard Brandwein _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 00:45:54 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07615; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:45:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cwwak-00065c-0W; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:05:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwwGY-0004tX-GI; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:44:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cww94-00074W-1s for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:36:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07181 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:36:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwwRm-0005rM-Ak for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:56:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039381CD926 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:36:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05958-03 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:36:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AD51CD8B3 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:36:40 -0500 (EST) To: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] email document delivery service References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <opslnb9qsniz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> <86acqljgfj.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <opslnqlmpviz3etf0c9082f7@localhost.rousskov.org> From: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> Date: 04 Feb 2005 00:36:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: <opslnqlmpviz3etf0c9082f7@localhost.rousskov.org> Message-ID: <86d5vghonq.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 "Alex Rousskov" <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> writes: > Furthermore, one can imagine a wrapper service that adds MIME > retrieval magic to standard/plain notification messages. Fair enough. > However, discussing this any further would most likely re-open the > endless debate about how many users make a given free IETF service > worth supporting. Looks like we can't possible have any users, given that the service doesn't work. Simplifies things... -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education. -- G. B. Shaw _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 00:53:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08038; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:53:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cwwhj-0006GW-WE; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:12:32 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwwNe-0007JR-UQ; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:51:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwwMf-00074e-Uo for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:50:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07857 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:50:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com ([192.20.225.110] helo=mail-white.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwwfN-0006CE-BK for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 01:10:06 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0FCA7B2F; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:50:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j145oDHo025302; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:50:13 -0800 Message-Id: <200502040550.j145oDHo025302@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: shalunov@internet2.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt References: <200502040434.j144YtI08508@windsor.research.att.com> <86hdkshot7.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:50:13 -0800 From: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 >Does <category> have to be a valid URL or can we get away with an >opaque character string, e.g., "IESG-SUBMIT"? I goofed in my example; I meant it to be <category domain="http://tools.ietf.org/events/">IESG-SUBMIT</category> in which it's more clear that the URL portion is a tag, not a URL per se. >Is guid supposed to be globally unique (like email message-id) Yes - I was thinking a URL (again, not necessarily pointing to anything, just using the URL form) including ietf.org, document tag and event ID. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 04:46:37 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06956; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 04:46:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cx0Li-0003Q8-Hx; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 05:06:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwztX-0002iR-UI; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:36:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cwzpf-0001kz-Oi; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:33:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06143; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 04:32:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.jck.com ([209.187.148.211] helo=bs.jck.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cx08L-00033W-2x; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:52:13 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CwzpY-000LPn-Cs; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:32:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:32:46 -0500 From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> To: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu>, ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <B3038391EAE97D00914ED791@[10.6.77.105]> In-Reply-To: <866519jg56.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <opslnb9qsniz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> <866519jg56.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: email document delivery service X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:57 PM -0500 stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> wrote: > Internet-draft announcements, as they are currently generated, > include a MIME-based mechanism to request internet-drafts via > email. Do you use this feature? If you do, could you please > let me know? > > Background: the IETF Tools team is working on a draft, > draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt, that specifies the > requirements for a document notification service. We'd like > to better understand how email document delivery is actually > used. Please be a little bit careful about how and where this question is asked. Most of the active participants in the IETF have reasonably good, online, access to the Internet with cost-effective bandwidth (at least much of the time). But there are people for whom those things are not the case, but who want to track our work and should be able to do so. They may or may not read the open IETF list but, given recent volume surges, I'd guess most of them do not. For them, the email access, and maybe even the remote-body-part access, can be important features -- more important, perhaps, for RFC retrieval than for I-D retrieval, but important nonetheless. While I'm on the subject, --On Friday, February 04, 2005 8:41 AM +0000 Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: > Hi, > > Our anti-virus system tags all IETF draft announcements as > being potentially dangerous. I suspect because of the unusual > options to fetch the data that are encoded in the MIME header. > > We would certainly like to see that feature removed from IETF > announcements, as it seems archaic. This may not be within > the remit of your draft, but you may wish to consider what > effect various MIME options have on anti-virus systems, and > potential vulnerabilities that lie within them. Hmm. There is a case to be made that those external body part options are as safe, or safer, than a delivered attachment: you can, in principle, inspect either before opening or executing it, but I can easily imagine one of those "a good/fun user experience is more important than security or bullet-proof-ness" MUAs being designed to provide better access for an actual virus-checker for the external body parts. Certainly an external body part is as safe and probably safer than an imbedded URL, especially in an MUA that opens those URLs automatically. So my instinctive response to that request is "have you considered getting your anti-virus software fixed?". john _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 13:50:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23179; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:50:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cx8q7-0000fc-5d; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:10:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cx8SP-0008By-3T; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:45:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cx8Rk-00080Z-Jw; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:44:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22800; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from almso2.att.com ([192.128.166.71] helo=almso2.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cx8kU-0000WK-IX; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:04:14 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com ([135.25.114.99]) by almso2.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.5) with ESMTP id j14Ii8dj018439; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:44:08 -0500 Received: from [135.70.54.100] (unknown[135.70.54.100](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20050204184350gw1000mtrge> (Authid: tony); Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:43:51 +0000 Message-ID: <4203C26C.9010105@att.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:43:56 -0500 From: Tony Hansen <tony@att.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86pszkhtav.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <opslnb9qsniz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> <866519jg56.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> <B3038391EAE97D00914ED791@[10.6.77.105]> In-Reply-To: <B3038391EAE97D00914ED791@[10.6.77.105]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-team@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: email document delivery service X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John C Klensin wrote: > --On Friday, February 04, 2005 8:41 AM +0000 Tim Chown wrote: >> Our anti-virus system tags all IETF draft announcements as >> being potentially dangerous. I suspect because of the unusual >> options to fetch the data that are encoded in the MIME header. > > Hmm. There is a case to be made that those external body part options > are as safe, or safer, than a delivered attachment: you can, in > principle, inspect either before opening or executing it, but I can > easily imagine one of those "a good/fun user experience is more > important than security or bullet-proof-ness" MUAs being designed to > provide better access for an actual virus-checker for the external body > parts. Certainly an external body part is as safe and probably safer > than an imbedded URL, especially in an MUA that opens those URLs > automatically. > > So my instinctive response to that request is "have you considered > getting your anti-virus software fixed?". Our firewall software here also briefly tagged message/external-body attachments as dangerous. Instead of just removing the attachment, the software deleted the entire message and sent a note saying that they had done so. Whoever had installed the software just didn't get it; it took us a bit to get them to fix it. Even more fearful, I have a feeling that they were just following instructions provided by the firewall software people, who SHOULD know better. Tony Hansen _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 14:59:25 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA27955; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:59:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cx9uo-0001zW-Sk; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:18:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cx9af-000529-83; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:58:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cx9Zu-0004rk-J2 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:57:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA27849 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:57:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com ([192.20.225.110] helo=mail-white.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cx9sh-0001x7-HW for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:16:46 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F80AA7B00; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j14JuiD2002601; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:56:44 -0800 Message-Id: <200502041956.j14JuiD2002601@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: shalunov@internet2.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt References: <200502040434.j144YtI08508@windsor.research.att.com> <86hdkshot7.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:56:44 -0800 From: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 >One note: I was assuming that the RSS file >for a given tag would contain all events related to that tag, rather >than last N. This is possible - we may have to see how readers handle lots of entries. RSS 0.91 was limited to 15 <item>s per <channel>, but 0.92 and 2.0 have no such limitation. Also, following on to our discussion about XML name spaces: RSS 2.0 formally permits elements in other namespaces; again basically formalizing existing practice. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 15:26:48 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01579; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:26:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxALK-0002kl-9Y; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:46:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cx9tV-0000GQ-9g; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:17:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cx9sj-0007oO-8p for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:16:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA29988 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxABX-0002Rp-Tw for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:36:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2A71CD913 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:16:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14928-03 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:16:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84171CD908 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:16:41 -0500 (EST) To: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt References: <200502040434.j144YtI08508@windsor.research.att.com> <86hdkshot7.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <200502041956.j14JuiD2002601@bright.research.att.com> From: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> Date: 04 Feb 2005 15:16:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200502041956.j14JuiD2002601@bright.research.att.com> Message-ID: <86lla4f5ck.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 16 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> writes: > This is possible - we may have to see how readers handle lots of entries. For a typical draft, the number of entries shouldn't be too large (equal to the number of versions before publication request, plus a dozen more). At least some RSS readers should allow to only see previously unseen events. What are the most widespread RSS readers in use? -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -- G. B. Shaw _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 4 18:40:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA20680; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxDND-00084l-HC; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:00:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxD2x-0001VR-9q; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:39:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxD14-0001G3-BJ for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:37:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA20470 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:37:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxDJv-00080N-8D for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:57:04 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j14NbV3a033345 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:37:15 -0700 To: "IETF TOOLS team" <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-00.txt References: <200501251752.j0PHqJJE003535@bright.research.att.com> <86zmyxnia5.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> From: "Alex Rousskov" <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <opslo48dzeiz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> In-Reply-To: <86zmyxnia5.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54u1 (FreeBSD, build 892) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 2005/01/25 (MST), <shalunov@internet2.edu> wrote: > Does the submission tool enforce uniqueness of draft file names even > after expiration? Yes: 3. Draft ID must be correct (R22/a), including the draft version number value. Draft version numbers must start with zero and increase by one with every new version. To satisfy this requirement, the Toolset would have to consult the repository of already posted drafts, including expired ones. Note, however, that if IETF trully expires a draft (as in "forgets it ever existed"), there is no "expired draft" to talk about and the question becomes moot... I hope that all posted draft versions are kept somewhere, even after they expire. Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 5 14:58:25 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25295; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxWNa-0006lT-IO; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:18:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxW3a-0007yt-4j; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:57:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxW2g-0007fY-UH for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:56:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25184 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:56:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-dark.research.att.com ([192.20.225.112] helo=mail-yellow.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxWLi-0006jG-P5 for tools-team@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:16:11 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BABA7B00; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j15Jtwlq016139; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:55:58 -0800 Message-Id: <200502051955.j15Jtwlq016139@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: rousskov@measurement-factory.com Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-00.txt References: <200501251752.j0PHqJJE003535@bright.research.att.com> <86zmyxnia5.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <opslo48dzeiz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:55:58 -0800 From: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 >Note, however, that if IETF trully expires a draft (as in "forgets it ever >existed"), there is no "expired draft" to talk about and the question >becomes moot... I hope that all posted draft versions are kept somewhere, >even after they expire. Yes, history is kept - again not necessarily per policy, just as the way the tools work. all_id.txt is generated from the history database - 12,743 entries, 8,330 of which are expired, earliest "last changed" date 1989-06-01. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 5 20:53:58 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21977; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 20:53:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cxbvk-00057g-F7; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 21:13:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxbaF-0001jt-2P; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:51:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxbYQ-0001Im-AB for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:49:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21653 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 20:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxbrW-000509-0S for tools-team@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 21:09:22 -0500 Received: by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 58B3337E78; Sun, 6 Feb 2005 02:49:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.163]) by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4880F37E62; Sun, 6 Feb 2005 02:49:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FA837E42; Sun, 6 Feb 2005 02:49:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CxbXt-0006s4-US; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:49:06 +0100 Message-ID: <42057791.7070001@levkowetz.com> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:49:05 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] tool suggestion for MPLS IETF References: <200501251912.j0PJCTO9020857@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200501251912.j0PJCTO9020857@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas, Returning to your suggestion (below) and trying to get a handle on the requirements for this, it seems to me that the task is split into two parts: Presentation part, and update part. For the presentation part, it could be done by one page which simply listed the workgroup names as a long list of links to individual pages, or it could be a bit more fancy, basically using the IETF-62 agenda as a starting point, and linking off that; pretty much matching the format of the agenda-page in html-format which the secretariat provides, but adding the html links to drafts, RFCs and other URLs. Is either of these options what you had in mind? One sample of the latter is available at http://ietf.levkowetz.com/schedule/?url=http://www.ietf.org/meetings/agenda_61.html but has the drawback that it has kept the secretariat-provided links to the charters -- if you want to be able to get this by an rsync or similar to have it available off line, I guess you'd prefer not to have those link in there. Is it important that the whole set of agendas be available by rsync, or would wget also be acceptable? For the update part, it could be done pretty easily by using a wiki page per workgroup (as already suggested). which would require that agendas always be entered in the wiki (and updated there) as well as sent in to the secretariat. Or it could be a bit more fancy, providing fallback to the wg-agendas from the secretariat if no newer one had been entered through the wiki; which would be easier on the chairs, but require a bit more work to put together. Does these options match what you had in mind, or is there some non- obvious drawback to using a wiki? (The obvious one being no access control - anybody could update any agenda...) One alternative I'm considering is to extract the email addresses of the chairs of each workgroup from the charter pages, and arrange for agenda updates by email, where the sender email would have to match the workgroup for an update to go through. This would probably be a bit more custom programming than going with the wiki, though. Comments? Henrik On 2005-01-25 8:12 pm Thomas Narten said the following: > Recalling a discussion from the last IETF, it sure would be nice if > there was a single web page that listed all WG agendas, and the > agendas were actually up-to-date. > > Problem statement: > > WG agendas should be collected on a single page, and be updatable in > essentially real-time, even during the WG meetings; can't we just have > a tool that does this? > > requirements (?) > - viewable via browser of course, should be html to support links > (e.g., to IDs, etc.). But .txt file works too. > - single rsync/wget to get a snapshot of entire set of agendas > (e.g., before getting onto plane) > - chairs can update as often as they like (in real time), > including moments before their WG meeting. > - simple format/interface is fine -- each chair gets to update > one file (i.e, their agenda). so, need the equivalent of > allowing a restricted "scp" to update a page > - run without secretariate help, so CNRI doesn't have be involved > (they have enough to do around meeting times anyway, it > seems. Plus, we want this to be done completely through software.) > - might be useful to have a secondary tool that sends reminders to > chairs of wgs that don't have agendas listed, at least to get > at least an initial agenda posted... But that is detail... > > (might be more requirements...) > > Thoughts? > > What about running a prototype/experiment that attempts the above and > then evaluate how it works? We do it ourselves, on our own (non-CNRI) > web site, and ask WG-chairs to participate. > > Thomas _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 7 07:53:30 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA23586; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:53:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cy8hq-0007h2-PK; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:13:35 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cy8LP-0007HG-KV; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:50:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cy8He-0006st-EX for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:46:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA22845 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cy8b1-0007XP-Oe for tools-team@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:06:33 -0500 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j17CjtUZ001282 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:45:55 -0500 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id j17CjtdV281814 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:45:55 -0500 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j17CjjVl000646 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:45:45 -0500 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-65-202-216.mts.ibm.com [9.65.202.216]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j17Cjirp000536; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:45:44 -0500 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j17CjNJD021511; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:45:25 -0500 Message-Id: <200502071245.j17CjNJD021511@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] tool suggestion for MPLS IETF In-Reply-To: Message from Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> of "Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:49:05 +0100." <42057791.7070001@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:45:22 -0500 From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Hi Henrik. > For the presentation part, it could be done by one page which simply > listed the workgroup names as a long list of links to individual pages, > or it could be a bit more fancy, basically using the IETF-62 agenda > as a starting point, and linking off that; pretty much matching the > format of the agenda-page in html-format which the secretariat provides, > but adding the html links to drafts, RFCs and other URLs. > Is either of these options what you had in mind? Yep. The secretariat agendas are not yet online, so I can't go look at them to remind me of the format. > One sample of the latter is available at > http://ietf.levkowetz.com/schedule/?url=http://www.ietf.org/meetings/agenda_61.html > but has the drawback that it has kept the secretariat-provided links > to the charters -- if you want to be able to get this by an rsync or > similar to have it available off line, I guess you'd prefer not to > have those link in there. yes, this looks nice. As I'm looking at though, one more useful feature would be to show the date of the agenda, so one knows how recent it is. > Is it important that the whole set of agendas be available by rsync, > or would wget also be acceptable? wget is sufficient. Main thing is that there is a straightforward way to get the entire contents. > For the update part, it could be done pretty easily by using a wiki > page per workgroup (as already suggested). which would require that > agendas always be entered in the wiki (and updated there) as well as > sent in to the secretariat. Or it could be a bit more fancy, providing > fallback to the wg-agendas from the secretariat if no newer one had been > entered through the wiki; which would be easier on the chairs, but require > a bit more work to put together. One issue that will come up is divergence of the updated agendas from the "official" one. Indeed, we already have that problem. For instance, just what is the _final_ agenda (i.e., the one that appears in the proceedings), given that updates happen at the very last moment? This isn't a new problem, just one that will become even more apparent. > Does these options match what you had in mind, or is there some non- > obvious drawback to using a wiki? (The obvious one being no access > control - anybody could update any agenda...) I think a wiki would be fine. Access control is the only concern I have. Maybe we shouldn't worry unless it becomes a problem, at least for this round. But going forward (e.g., if it does become part of the "official" process), we'll need an answer. > One alternative I'm considering is to extract the email addresses > of the chairs of each workgroup from the charter pages, and arrange > for agenda updates by email, where the sender email would have to match > the workgroup for an update to go through. This would probably be a > bit more custom programming than going with the wiki, though. And is easy to forge. I.e., if folk abuse the wiki access controls, not clear why email would be a deterrent. > Comments? Nice job! Thomas _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 00:41:36 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA26448; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 00:41:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CykvL-0006nD-9x; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 01:02:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cykap-00052q-Ja; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:40:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CykX4-0004N7-9W for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:36:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA26199 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 00:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cykqm-0006hd-U5 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:57:22 -0500 Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j195ar3a057687; Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:36:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: (from rousskov@localhost) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id j195aqnl057686; Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:36:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:36:52 -0700 (MST) From: Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> To: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt In-Reply-To: <86mzupph6o.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Message-ID: <20050208223228.J57169@measurement-factory.com> References: <86mzupph6o.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 Cc: IETF Tools <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, stanislav shalunov wrote: > http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ietf-tools/draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt Stas, Here is my late high-level feedback on your Notification draft. First of all, I am excited that you made a lot of progress! If done right and at full scale, IETF notifications would be a useful and cool feature. 1) My first and most important comment is about notifications scope. I believe the scope currently defined in the draft is too narrow and must be enlarged. The draft currently defines notifications for single-document events. That's fine, must at virtually the same cost we can and, IMO, should support notifications for other events, including events related to multiple documents (e.g., "all documents authored by Stas" or "all drafts on the BOF agenda") and events unrelated to specific documents (e.g., "WG consensus call", or "IESG membership change", or "IETF meeting schedule change"). While we should certainly start with events related to drafts, WG charters, and meetings, I am sure that (given the right toolset design), IETF will add many more useful events without any significant changes to the notification interface you are defining or to the tools that will implement the interface. In summary, I believe that the focus on a "document" should be removed from the Notification draft and replaced with a more broad definition of an IETF-related "event". 2) Event tags should be hidden from human users whenever possible. It might be fine to initially associate draft events with the draft name, but that implementation detail should not be a part of the overall design and should be invisible to the human user (except for low-level debugging purposes). The interface should allow users to specify events using whatever IDs are natural in a given _context_: "I want to follow THIS draft", "I am interested in any document authored by THIS author", "Notify me when THIS wg milestone is reached", "Tell me when any NEW WG is formed", etc. Sometimes, the context will be defined by some draft filename, of course, but that does not mean event tag will [always] be a draft name or mask. Your current draft already has a few paragraphs illustrating why hard coding the filename:tag relationship causes trouble: a) A file name might change while subscriber interest in the draft is unlikely to change with the name change; and a) Some events are difficult or impossible to define in terms of draft names. The user is usually not interested in the draft name (which is just a low-level IETF ID), but in the draft contents and meaningful metadata. (The sad fact that some IETF draft IDs carry some meaning should not be misinterpreted as a design worth following). 3) When individual draft is accepted as a WG draft, the subscribers interested in the draft are most likely to remain interested. Do not drop them unless their event selection specifically excluded WG drafts. "Individual" or "WG" is just a state or flag assigned to each draft. The change in this flag value should not cause general subscriptions to be terminated, just like the change in IESG states should not cause such termination. Again, this is an illustration why tag:filename tie does not reflect notification problem space well (see above). 4) Document states should not be assumed to be sequential by design. IESG states might be an exception, but we should make it very clear that a single draft may be in several different states at the same time. The implementation should support that so that new states/flags can be easily added by editing some XML config files, without any code modification. Perhaps "state" is not the best term here. Related editorial comment: do we have to describe IESG states in this draft? Can we cite some document or web page instead? The set of IESG draft states and their specific definitions do not seem to be important for our purposes... 5) In the event anatomy, move "Document name" and "Document state" to a lower, event type-specific part. Only documents will have those. Other events may have other type-specific parts. 6) In the document event anatomy, "document state" should not be reported unless the event notifies of the state change. We are not reporting other unchanged document metadata, why is "state" special? 7) In the event anatomy, would "gist" be a better name for the "title" field? I also disagree with the given "title" examples. Titles/gists should not contain information from other event field (e.g., draft filename). Software that renders notification will combine fields as it finds appropriate. Thus, "title" examples should be "new draft", "new version", "draft state change", etc. 8) I would consider joining "event abstract" and "event URL" into something like "event comment" or "event description". For most events, this field will contain a very short text pointing to some web page describing common events. For some special, custom events, the field will contain human-written text giving all the details about the event. I think this scheme would accommodate virtually all uses without being difficult to support or comprehend. 9) How about replacing "MISC" with "OTHER" or "UNCATEGORIZED"? 10) In "Kinds of Notifications", if "new document" (i.e., document birth) is special, should not document death be special as well. 11) Existence notification: See above regarding merging tags and event semantics. We should not try to encode the entire event semantics into the tag. The event metadata is type-specific and will contain necessary details. It should be possible to get notifications for, say, "new documents by Stas". See above for more examples. This draft cannot define all such event types. The system must be flexible enough to accept new event types with ease (and that something we must design for and require). 12) I did not understand Section 7.4. RSS notifications I get now are just like good email notifications -- they are very short gists with web pointers/links to more details elsewhere. You are saying that web notifications are like RSS notifications but then you talk about "all events displayed in order", and that confuses me. To me, displaying more than one event is a function of some event history browsing mechanism, not notification mechanism. 13) Section "Errors, Amendments, etc.": We should not try erasing any events. Is does not work in a distributed environment; the erase event will always be late under some conditions. Sending an "error" event, followed by the correct event is the only thing that works, IMO. And it is much simpler to implement too! Please note that all of the above are thoughts/suggestions, even if they read like affirmative statements! While I have strong preferences on a few issues such as scope and tags, I do believe we need to debate them and my position may change. Thank you, Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 08:53:30 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02769; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:53:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CysbQ-0007gT-3d; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:14:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cys8k-0004Bq-8h; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 08:44:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cys7p-0003su-Td for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 08:43:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA01668 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate8.mot.com ([129.188.136.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CysRd-0007OP-Sa for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:03:54 -0500 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate8.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate8) with ESMTP id j19DjOJD008181 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 06:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id j19DhLiu026704 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:43:21 -0600 Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1LP622XR>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:43:21 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238107E7728B@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com> To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:43:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C50EAD.4E6BC968" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c25c25eef92c03b403abac6c7c688517 Subject: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4824b9ef1b1988f2983d420e78cedc0a This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C50EAD.4E6BC968 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, Attached is my update of the meeting scheduler requirements document based on comments received and our discussions. My apologies for missing the call last week. Unfortunately, we have an all day project review tomorrow so I may miss that call or only be able to call in briefly. Thanks, Donald ========================================================= Donald E. Eastlake III Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com Motorola Laboratories +1-508-786-7554 (work) 111 Locke Drive +1-508-634-2066 (home) Marlboro, MA 01752 USA Meeting Room Scheduler - Requirements 8 Feb 2005 Donald Eastlake 3rd Inputs: Required: * Room slots available (times and sizes) * Room requests by chairs (duration and size) Theoretically Optional but Expected: * Non-conflict requests by o Area Directors (defaults to the WGs and BoFs that AD is responsible for) o Chairs * Day of week requests by o ADs (should be rare) o Chairs Optional: * Manual assignments (used to meet special requirements) * Existing schedule (so changes can be minimized on iterations after first announced schedule) * AD and Chair requests for o "not same day" meetings o "near" meetings * Attendee requests for (not currently collected but could be added to registration where attendees could list what/when they would like to attend to provide better schedules and better room size estimates) o Non-conflict requests o Day of week requests Outputs: * A schedule * A goodness metric so quality of schedule for different meetings can be compared and perhaps to provide push back that more room slots are needed Processing: * Option 1: Assuming a function that yields a goodness score for a schedule, assign rooms in a heuristically fashion to optimize that score. This is essentially a batch process. The design of this function is an interesting question and requires weighting of the importance of the different inputs. A variety of functions and parameter values should be tried. * Option 2: Assume participants are giving a certain amount of fake currency and are permitted to bid any amount up to all they have to obtain certain schedule properties. This is essentially a continuous on-line process. Many variations are possible. The currency involved in the bids for a property is frozen when the schedule conforms to that property but is released if the schedule changes to no longer have that property. Is losing bid currency available for reallocation by the bidder? How is increasing stability assured as the meeting approaches? * Various hybrids of 1 and 2 are possible. Assumptions: * Massive single track events (plenary meetings and social) will be scheduled by a separate manual process and not included in room slots available or room requests. Discussion: Option 1 above is pretty much from the point of view of automating the current manual process. Option 2 is more of a bidding or voting model in which ADs would have more currency/votes than Chairs who would in turn have more than attendees (assuming attendees are added to the mix at some point). Next Step: Implement some sort of prototype, probably file driven rather than having a fancy user interface, and try it on the data for the upcoming Minneapolis meeting or perhaps an earlier meeting if the Secretariat has the data available. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C50EAD.4E6BC968 Content-Type: application/msword; name="Meeting Room Scheduler 2.doc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Meeting Room Scheduler 2.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAOgAAAAAAAAAA EAAAPAAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAADsAAAD///////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CytNd-0000NY-T2; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:03:50 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cyswd-0000Is-SJ; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:35:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cysqd-0006Va-VF for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:29:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05445 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([158.38.152.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CytAS-0008V7-1U for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:50:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9550861B9C; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:29:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26837-04; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:29:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from halvestr-w2k02.emea.cisco.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA0161B9A; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:29:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:29:03 +0100 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com>, IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements Message-ID: <6826F1099A46753BAD5C3C07@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> In-Reply-To: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238107E7728B@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> References: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238107E7728B@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.c om> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.5 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don, have you either talked to Marcia or scheduled a meeting with her to discuss the aspects that she takes into account when scheduling? We should use the resources we have. Harald _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 11:27:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA14834; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:27:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cyv0t-0002fe-Eb; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 11:48:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cyucd-0005Wz-Qb; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 11:23:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cyub1-0005FT-EA for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 11:21:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA14581 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from av5-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.112]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cyuur-0002ZA-Fn for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 11:42:13 -0500 Received: by av5-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 6EAD937E4C; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.163]) by av5-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFC737E44 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467DC37E45 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CyuaV-0007qK-6B for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:21:11 +0100 Message-ID: <420A3876.8020402@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:21:10 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 9 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here is the proposed agenda for today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. 3. Status a. of I-D submission tool draft b. of Notification draft c. of I-D information draft d. of WG draft info pages e. of Updateable agenda pages 4. Action item review. * Stas: Continue looking at Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. * Bill: Help with the mapping of notification elements to RSS 0.9 * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom 5. Action items for next meeting 6. Any other business. 7. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 16 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 14:48:10 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05805; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:48:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cyy8h-0000PE-U1; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:08:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyxXo-0005WZ-TN; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:30:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyxKg-0000pe-P9 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:17:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29603 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyxeX-00075e-HP for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:37:34 -0500 Received: by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 4B3A937E58; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:16:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.164]) by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B17537E43 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:16:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2441A37E44 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:16:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CyxK9-0004wo-Ad for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:16:29 +0100 Message-ID: <420A618D.2010905@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:16:29 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 9 Feb 2005 Telechat X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed806e2f53ff1a061ad4f97e00345ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here are the minutes from today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 0. Present: Stas, Henrik, Alex, Bill 1. Agenda bashing Added 3.a to the agenda 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. None 3a. Issues related to the use of Message/External-body It was discussed whether to include the use of Message/External-body parts in notification messages specified by the draft-notification draft, and as it turns out that the mechanism as used by current mail announcements have been broken for about 6 months, it seemed not important to keep in place. The possibility of fetching drafts by email auto-responder should be kept, though. 3b. Status a. of I-D submission tool draft Submitted for publication (as reported earlier) b. of Notification draft Stas had questions about Alex' comments. Summarised: 1) Should we already now widen the scope to generic events and notifications of them, or keep the scope focused on draft notification, and introduce generalisation at the point where we introduce a notification service for a second class of events? Stas, Bill and Henrik seemed to favour the second choice, but some of Alex comments indicated that the changes he proposed to the draft were not very large, so Alex should submit concrete proposals for document changes to the list - they may be smaller than first understood during the discussion. 2) The format of subscription selectors should not be part of the human interface (e.g. a web page) but should be part of the specification of the engine interface. Stas will expand on his description of the intended interface, to clarify and make further comments possible. 3) Is it sufficient to have subscription selectors of the form of a regexp for the document filename? Possibly not, but as a first step it is easy to implement given currently available data. We run into problems for subscription to all drafts from a workgroup, when some drafts are not named 'draft-ietf-<wg>-.*', but kept with the name of the personal submission. There may also be a problem with subscribing to "all drafts by Bill Fenner" - some may not be named draft-fenner-.*, and there may be drafts by Joe Fenner named draft-fenner-.* More discussion on the list, but as a first step regexps over the filename will give a lot of functionality. c. of I-D information draft Alex has been focusing on comments to the notification draft this week. d. of WG draft info pages Coding has started for wg pages for all WGs, based on the current ones on ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/ . Aim to have something in place within 2 weeks. e. of Updateable agenda pages Design has started for this too, with the aim of having something in place within 2 weeks. 4. Action item review. * Stas: Continue looking at Notification Service Requirements. Progresses * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. Alex has been focusing on comments to the notification draft this week. Will have progress on this till next week. * Bill: Help with the mapping of notification elements to RSS0.9 Done * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom Not done 5. Action items for next meeting * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. * Alex: Send concrete proposal to the list for text / document changes related to item 1) in the comments on the notifications draft, in case the changes are more minor than thought during the meeting discussion. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom * Henrik: Continue with WG pages and Agenda pages work 6. Any other business. None 7. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 16 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 15:12:11 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08285; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyyVx-00015K-5S; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:32:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cyy5T-0004hQ-RQ; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:05:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cyy1T-00027f-BG for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:01:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07136 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-dark.research.att.com ([192.20.225.112] helo=mail-yellow.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyyLK-0000p4-6r for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:21:47 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A90197502 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j19K0h8i013647; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:00:43 -0800 Message-Id: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: tools-team@ietf.org Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:00:42 -0800 From: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Subject: [Tools-team] A way to think about events: xml publish/subscribe X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a In some other work, I've been talking with others here about the publish-subscribe model, which is basically best summarized as a constantly-running query run over a changing set of data. I think this model is a decent way to think about the event notification work and that is where some of the discussion of "it's like a search engine" vs "it's queries for new drafts" etc. comes from - in this model, it *is* like a search engine, but the usual usage is to match searches against newly-published data and it's relatively uncommon (but possible) to use it like what we think of as search engines now. There's lots of discussion about how to use XPath or XQuery or etc. to describe events of interest; this gives much more power than the existing description, but perhaps too much. (Unfortunately, "learn about XQuery" has been on my to do list for months, so I'm actually not sure what it provides, but even XPath can do at least some of what we talked about, e.g., "//doctag[starts-with(.,'draft-fenner-')]") Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 15:24:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09632; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:24:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cyyi9-0001M1-8C; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:45:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyyFJ-0000MZ-9T; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:15:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyyAO-0006mk-56 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:10:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08104 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyyUF-00013Q-Mk for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:31:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FFD1CD89A for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00938-04 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D7D1CD897 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:10:25 -0500 (EST) To: IETF Tools <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] draft-ietf-tools-notification-03.txt References: <86mzupph6o.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <20050208223228.J57169@measurement-factory.com> From: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> Date: 09 Feb 2005 15:10:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20050208223228.J57169@measurement-factory.com> Message-ID: <861xbp8pfu.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 220 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bc6181926481d86059e678c9f7cb8b34 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b66a1e94d7d92973ece9e5da449ff80 Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> writes: > Here is my late high-level feedback on your Notification > draft. Thank you very much for doing this. It is very helpful. > 1) My first and most important comment is about notifications > scope. [Discussed on the call. Will wait for your description of changes.] > 2) Event tags should be hidden from human users whenever > possible. [As clarified during the call, event tags are, in the terminology of the draft, document or existential tags.] Yes. Users aren't to be expected to keep typing these things in. Let me describe, briefly and in general terms, how I imagined the user interface to work. Working group web pages and similar pages might contain a few new links: * ``Notify me about future new drafts by this working group via email'' * ``See event history for this draft'' * ``Read the event history for this draft as an RSS feed'' * ``Notify me about future events related to this draft via email'' Users might follow these links. In the case of email subscriptions, they'd need to enter their email address, unless previously authenticated. When a user subscribes for the first time, he enters his email address, receives a short ``confirm this'' message, and confirms by responding or visiting a web page. Along with this, if the confirmation is done via the web, the user might be offered a chance to create a username and password so that he won't need to confirm subscriptions again. He might also be offered a chance to simply be remembered by the system (via a cookie). A user who is subscribed to some existential notifications (the typical case would be ``all drafts'' or ``all drafts by this WG and that one'') would get email messages that would include the abstract of the internet-draft. The message would also contain two URLs (mailto: and http:) that would help accomplish the same thing, viz., subscribe to future events related to this draft. The business with tags would help application developers who would be given a stable interface into the system. The user interface would not need to be as rigidly defined. Third parties or the IETF in the future might use the well-defined mechanisms to do whatever they like with events: build search engines, complex notification systems, etc. The most trivial example of using extensions of this kind would be if I created a link on my personal page that let you subscribe to my future drafts (the link might look like http://notify.ietf.org/sub?t=draft-shalunov-*, and I would be expected to produce it either by cutting and pasting after using a form somewhere or, less typically, by constructing the link myself; regardless of the way I got the link, I'd know it's stable). > It might be fine to initially associate draft events with > the draft name, but that implementation detail should not be a part of > the overall design I don't believe the spec is complete unless it gives a stable interface for playing with events. > 3) When individual draft is accepted as a WG draft, the > subscribers interested in the draft are most likely to remain > interested. Do not drop them unless their event selection specifically > excluded WG drafts. "Individual" or "WG" is just a state or flag > assigned to each draft. The change in this flag value should not cause > general subscriptions to be terminated, just like the change in IESG > states should not cause such termination. ``Drop'' is a word that seems to imply email delivery. With RSS, would you want the feed URL remain the same? It'd be great if the IETF had stable tags to refer to ``the same document'' that survived republishing, but it doesn't. If there were these more stable tags, we could use them. > 4) Document states should not be assumed to be sequential by > design. They are not. (Indeed the order, as specified, is impossible to follow for a draft.) > IESG states might be an exception, but we should make it very clear > that a single draft may be in several different states at the same > time. I don't understand. > The implementation should support that so that new states/flags can > be easily added by editing some XML config files, without any code > modification. Perhaps "state" is not the best term here. Are you talking about some kind of flags here? What flags? Where would they come from? > Related editorial comment: do we have to describe IESG states > in this draft? I'd prefer not to, but I see no better choice. The text is borrowed from the I-D tracker (with permission). > Can we cite some document or web page instead? I'd prefer to. The tracker seems to have been developed without a published requirements document. Looks like we have to retroactively publish the most important part of the design for the tracker (the states). Note that the events engine continues to track documents after they exit the IESG queue and end up with the RFC editor. > 5) In the event anatomy, move "Document name" and "Document > state" to a lower, event type-specific part. Only documents will have > those. Other events may have other type-specific parts. Depends on 1. > 6) In the document event anatomy, "document state" should not > be reported unless the event notifies of the state change. We are not > reporting other unchanged document metadata, why is "state" special? Originally, my tuple didn't contain state. Henrik pointed out that having it there would be beneficial. It'd be easier to keep it as a tuple at this point. If you prefer, one could add old state to the tuple, so that it'd be trivial to check if the state changed. (For now, you can look at the event type to learn that.) > 7) In the event anatomy, would "gist" be a better name for the > "title" field? Perhaps. > I also disagree with the given "title" examples. Titles/gists should > not contain information from other event field (e.g., draft > filename). Software that renders notification will combine fields as > it finds appropriate. Thus, "title" examples should be "new draft", > "new version", "draft state change", etc. Can you give some examples where one would benefit from having that? Non-replication looks like a good idea to me, but would we need to needlessly repeat, for every dissemination mechanism, how to form the email subject/RSS headline/WWW title? > 8) I would consider joining "event abstract" and "event URL" > into something like "event comment" or "event description". For most > events, this field will contain a very short text pointing to some web > page describing common events. For some special, custom events, the > field will contain human-written text giving all the details about the > event. I think this scheme would accommodate virtually all uses > without being difficult to support or comprehend. I wanted to separate out the URL, as it is structured (and it's well known what to do about it in software). The abstract, on the other hand, is not structured, and the only thing software can do with it is keep copying it essentially verbatim until it's shown to a user. > 9) How about replacing "MISC" with "OTHER" or "UNCATEGORIZED"? Done (``UNCATEGORIZED''). > 10) In "Kinds of Notifications", if "new document" (i.e., > document birth) is special, should not document death be special as > well. I don't think so, because birth events are the natural time to decide whether you're interested in the future life of the event. One could, of course, write an add-on obituary service based on the Atom feed, but it's not a very natural service. > 11) Existence notification: See above regarding merging tags > and event semantics. Depends on 1. > 12) I did not understand Section 7.4. RSS notifications I get > now are just like good email notifications -- they are very short > gists with web pointers/links to more details elsewhere. You are > saying that web notifications are like RSS notifications but then you > talk about "all events displayed in order", and that confuses me. To > me, displaying more than one event is a function of some event history > browsing mechanism, not notification mechanism. The RSS notifications you're talking about (``items'') are parts of a feed. The feed contains a whole bunch of them. WWW dissemination mechanism would present a complete RSS feed in reverse chronological order; this is similar to what most web-based RSS readers and blogging software would do, if I understand correctly. > 13) Section "Errors, Amendments, etc.": We should not try > erasing any events. Is does not work in a distributed environment; the > erase event will always be late under some conditions. Sending an > "error" event, followed by the correct event is the only thing that > works, IMO. And it is much simpler to implement too! Why would it be bad to erase events locally? Should I change ``Subsequently, the erroneous event, together with the new event of type ERROR, is removed from RSS, Atom, and WWW notification feeds'' so that it includes ``MAY''? If you build an event database out of an email feed, you aren't bound by the rules set by the draft. (Besides, mirroring Atom feeds might be a better way than building the event database, but that's tangential.) Thanks again for your input, -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ I never let school stand in the way of my education. -- Mark Twain _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 16:39:27 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28009; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyzsN-0007Kk-FD; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:00:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cyyp1-0001ve-9H; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:52:27 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyyXI-0006Sq-Qf for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:34:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10843 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyyrB-0001ak-46 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:54:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83271CD647 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07125-03 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA091CD5A6 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:34:07 -0500 (EST) To: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] A way to think about events: xml publish/subscribe References: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> From: stanislav shalunov <shalunov@internet2.edu> Date: 09 Feb 2005 15:34:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> Message-ID: <86brat79rw.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Bill, I like the analogy. I would also say that what we want is inexpensive access to a state-thin interface (Google, if you will), not customized keeping of lots of state (Googlealert, if you will). We also want to make Googlealert-type things possible, obviously. One would hope that the approach of building something simple and well-defined that allows for any bells and whistles to be added by anyone later would be uncontroversial. -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. -- Mark Twain _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 18:45:24 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA14413; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:45:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cz1qK-0003jH-GM; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:06:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cz1Ut-0002Qp-Vp; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:43:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cz1RU-0000vu-AS for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:40:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA14026 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 18:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from furball.foretec.com ([132.151.15.110] helo=foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cz1lO-0003at-EB for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:00:54 -0500 Received: from [10.27.4.222] (helo=D1GSDG11.foretec.com) by foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Cz1RT-0006Vc-At for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:40:19 -0500 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050209182606.02bcb900@furball.foretec.com> X-Sender: bfuller@furball.foretec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:35:45 -0500 To: tools-team@ietf.org From: "Barbara B. Fuller" <bfuller@foretec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Subject: [Tools-team] Internet-Drafts Database Interface X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Dear TOOLS Team: For your information, the IETF Secretariat has deployed a new Web tool: the "Internet-Drafts Database Interface" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/idindex.cgi). This new Web tool, which may be accessed from the "Internet-Drafts" page (http://www.ietf.org/ID.html) of the IETF Web site, allows users to display Internet-Drafts by category, or to search for Internet-Drafts based on one or more search parameters. Specifically, users may: - List Internet-Drafts by I-D status (i.e., "All," "Active," "Published," or "Expired/Withdrawn/Replaced") sorted either by submission date or filename. - View Internet-Drafts that are products of an IETF working group, an independent submitter, or another IETF or IETF-related entity. - Identify Internet-Drafts that satisfy selected criteria. For each Internet-Draft of interest, the tool provides the following information, as applicable: - Title - I-D Status - Intended Status at Publication - RFC Number - I-D Tracker State - Abstract The tool also provides links to the following materials: - The document (i.e., the Internet-Draft or tombstone) - Related documents (e.g., documents that replaced or were replaced by the subject Internet-Draft, and the derivatives and precursors of these documents) - The RFC (if the Internet-Draft has been published) - The I-D Tracker "Detail Info" page (if the Internet-Draft has been added to the I-D Tracker) - A pre-addressed e-mail note for contacting an author The "Internet-Drafts Database Interface" was approved for deployment by Harald Alvestrand. Regards, Barbara ------------------------------------------------ Barbara B. Fuller Acting Executive Director Internet Engineering Task Force Natick, Massachusetts Office: Phone: +1-508-650-4020 Fax: +1-508-650-4639 Reston, Virginia Office: Phone: +1-703-620-9053 Fax: +1-703-620-9071 _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 9 19:12:36 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15484; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:12:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cz2Gg-00048u-7l; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:33:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cz1vm-0003OQ-Qf; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:11:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cz1uy-0003BR-V6 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:10:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15416 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:10:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cz2Es-00047e-3X for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:31:23 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j1A0Ae3a002910; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:10:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:10:20 -0700 To: "Bill Fenner" <fenner@research.att.com>, tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] A way to think about events: xml publish/subscribe References: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> From: "Alex Rousskov" <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <opslyf3ibriz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> In-Reply-To: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54u1 (FreeBSD, build 892) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 2005/02/09 (MST), <fenner@research.att.com> wrote: > In some other work, I've been talking with others here about the > publish-subscribe model, which is basically best summarized as a > constantly-running query run over a changing set of data. > > I think this model is a decent way to think about the event > notification work and that is where some of the discussion of > "it's like a search engine" vs "it's queries for new drafts" > etc. comes from I have no problem with the analogy, but the above discussion is not what I was trying to discuss. The point I am trying to make is that there are several distinct components here: - events (what an event is) - subscriptions (what a subscription is, how to create a subscription record, etc.) - event generation sources (things that generate events) - event sinks (things that receive events) - event/subscription matching algorithm (does subscription record X match event Y?) - notification service (one of the event sinks) (using the matching algorithm to notify subscribers of "their" events, whenever an event is received from an event source) - event archive (one of the event sinks) (permanent storage for new events) - an archive search service (searching archived events) While many of the above components are very simple, I think it is important to know which one we are discussing at any single point. > - in this model, it *is* like a search engine, > but the usual usage is to match searches against newly-published > data and it's relatively uncommon (but possible) to use it like > what we think of as search engines now. Agreed. I have to note, however, that the "true" or "traditional" seach engine (the last component above) may support queries that differ from those that the subscription interface supports. For example, I might want to find all events that occured last year, but I cannot subscribe to last year events. If there is no significant implementation difference (e.g., both use XQuery), that's fine, but the concepts of subscribing to future events and searching through past events are still different, IMO. Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 11 05:04:52 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA13935; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 05:04:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzXzf-0002d9-0D; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 05:25:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CzXZF-0004FS-64; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:58:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CzXYW-0003sd-C9 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:57:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA13421 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:57:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([158.38.152.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzXsh-0002TK-J1 for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 05:18:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F0261F4E; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:57:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28105-09; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:57:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from halvestr-w2k02.emea.cisco.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C1561BAB; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:57:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:34:48 +0100 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> To: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>, tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] A way to think about events: xml publish/subscribe Message-ID: <AAEEC708542FA6BE3D09B797@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> In-Reply-To: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> References: <200502092000.j19K0h8i013647@bright.research.att.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.5 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit note.... this was extensively discussed in LDAP at one point... some drafts may still be around that describe various techniques to specify queries...... --On 9. februar 2005 12:00 -0800 Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com> wrote: > > In some other work, I've been talking with others here about the > publish-subscribe model, which is basically best summarized as a > constantly-running query run over a changing set of data. > > I think this model is a decent way to think about the event > notification work and that is where some of the discussion of > "it's like a search engine" vs "it's queries for new drafts" > etc. comes from - in this model, it *is* like a search engine, > but the usual usage is to match searches against newly-published > data and it's relatively uncommon (but possible) to use it like > what we think of as search engines now. > > There's lots of discussion about how to use XPath or XQuery or etc. > to describe events of interest; this gives much more power than > the existing description, but perhaps too much. (Unfortunately, > "learn about XQuery" has been on my to do list for months, so > I'm actually not sure what it provides, but even XPath can do > at least some of what we talked about, e.g., > "//doctag[starts-with(.,'draft-fenner-')]") > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-team mailing list > Tools-team@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team > > _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 08:15:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06895; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1PNC-0003ZM-Hg; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:37:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1P0N-0000fL-8I; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:14:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1OwO-0008FQ-J6 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:10:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06430 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1PHe-0003RH-3w for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:32:02 -0500 Received: from esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id j1GDA2O6023542 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:10:02 +0100 Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:10:34 +0100 Received: from [147.214.237.81] (minint-h6ih4eeb [147.214.237.81]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id 1ZVY4M41; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:12:27 +0100 Message-ID: <42134620.1050102@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:09:52 +0100 X-Sybari-Trust: 6f10ae62 b8ec86c7 90c04c48 00000139 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik.levkowetz@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050116) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2005 13:10:34.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[E64B9E90:01C51428] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 16 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here is the proposed agenda for today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. 3. Action item review. * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. * Alex: Send concrete proposal to the list for text / document changes related to item 1) in the comments on the notifications draft, in case the changes are more minor than thought during the meeting discussion. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom * Henrik: Continue with WG pages and Agenda pages work 4. Any other business. 5. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 23 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 14:35:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08030; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:35:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1VIu-0006HQ-9y; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:57:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1SsB-0007zf-C7; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:21:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1RJ1-000323-6N for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:41:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27220 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from penguin.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.47]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1ReE-0000QR-Fw for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:03:34 -0500 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id j1GFfQhH022628 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:41:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:42:00 +0100 Received: from [147.214.237.81] ([147.214.237.81]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:42:00 +0100 Message-ID: <4213699E.2050905@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:41:18 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik.levkowetz@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050116) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools team <tools-team@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2005 15:42:00.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E09D360:01C5143E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Prototype WG pages X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Starting from the workgroup pages I have running under ietf.levkowetz.com, I've done some re-writing which brings the resource usage for updating these down to very acceptable levels. The resulting pages are available at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ , and should include all now active workgroups. The pages are updated once per hour with the following information: * Any new workgroups are added * Any old workgroups are removed (these two are based on the information in 1id-index) * Any new WG drafts are added to the appropriate page, and diff and nits files generated * Any new or updated agenda page from ietf.org/ietf/mar05/ is added as an ietf-62 agenda (The agenda pages are rendered with html links for URLs, RFCs and drafts) * Status for each draft is updated based on the information in all_id.txt Known bugs: - The pages currently display links to charter, mailing list subscription web page and archives. All these are generated based on a template, which makes the mailing list information plain wrong for WGs which don't have lists on the ietf.org servers. Next in turn (as I see it now) are the following enhancements: + Import and display the names and obfuscated email addresses of the WG chairs + Make ietf-62 agendas editable by the chairs. (Requires a password which is simply any the current official email addresses of the chairs.) + As soon as there is an IETF-62 agenda page, produce a massaged version of this which points to the editable agenda pages and otherwise fulfills Thomas' requirements for a one-stop-shopping version of the IETF agenda, with html-links to drafts etc. + Import the correct mailing list information from the charter pages and correct the bug mentioned above + Add a scan for drafts related to a workgroup based on the filename (should contain -<wgname>- but not be a wg draft) and add these to the WG pages as 'related individual drafts' + Add prototype RSS feeds to the draft pages once specified in Stas' draft Comments? Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 14:53:03 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11128; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1VZf-0007Be-H2; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:15:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1TgA-00011g-EJ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:13:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1SP4-0002e4-Ly for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:51:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19535; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:51:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com ([129.188.136.101]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Sk9-0007aJ-5u; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:13:42 -0500 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by ftpbox.mot.com (Motorola/Ftpbox) with ESMTP id j1GGpYkn028665; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j1GGptLr003066; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:51:55 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1LP6KDLH>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:51:31 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD44BA@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com> To: "'Marcia Beaulieu'" <mbeaulie@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:51:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C51447.809590AA" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0c3d807a9e67fb2ae2b97f891ffd2e4e Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ac00a67115ef9face560ffa0586506ca This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C51447.809590AA Content-Type: text/plain Hi Marcia, As per the voice mail I left earlier, I'm working on a tool to assist in IETF meeting scheduling. Attached is the current requirements draft (I can send it in a different format if the attachment is a problem). Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. It would also be very useful to have sample data such as the rooms available and the room requests, either for a past meeting or for the upcoming meeting. I will be in Minneapolis in March and would like to meet with you to talk about this at our mutual convenience. Thanks, Donald -----Original Message----- From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [mailto:harald@alvestrand.no] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008; IETF TOOLS Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements Don, have you either talked to Marcia or scheduled a meeting with her to discuss the aspects that she takes into account when scheduling? We should use the resources we have. 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Feb 2005 13:25:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1SYg-0006kN-9h for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:01:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22532 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:01:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Stv-00009Y-Tm for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:23:49 -0500 Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j1GH1f3a074879; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:01:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: (from rousskov@localhost) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id j1GH1eZ0074878; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:01:40 -0700 (MST) From: Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <42134620.1050102@ericsson.com> Message-ID: <20050216095914.N74693@measurement-factory.com> References: <42134620.1050102@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 Subject: [Tools-team] Notifications draft restructuring X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed806e2f53ff1a061ad4f97e00345ac > * Alex: Send concrete proposal to the list for text / document > changes related to item 1) in the comments on the > notifications draft, in case the changes are more minor > than thought during the meeting discussion. Here it is. Please let me know what parts need further clarification. Requirements for IETF Event Notification Service draft-ietf-tools-notification Abstract IETF generates large number of events, including draft posting announcements, last calls, working group charter updates, meeting schedule changes, and IESG election results. There is no single source of events and the number of events make it impractical to monitor all of them. Active IETF participants and 3rd parties need a mechanism to receive most events of interest and few irrelevant events. This document describes such a mechanism and contains implementation requirements specific to handling of draft-related events. Other documents may extend the same generic mechanism to handling other kinds of events. Table of Contents 1. Requirements Notation 2. Introduction 3. Event Anatomy Type Serial number Date and time Title Gist 4. Overall operation Event generation Event subscription Event delivery Event storage 5. Internet Draft Events Identifying a draft Anatomy Document tag Document name Document action Document state Draft event generation Draft event subscription 6. Phases of Tool Development 7. Security Considerations 8. Internationalization Considerations 8. IANA Considerations 10. References 1. Requirements Notation AS-IS. 2. Introduction AS-IS but start with a paragraph applicable to all types of events, in the Abstract spirit. 3. Event Anatomy 3.1. Type A URI identifying the type or class of the event. For example, all draft events documented below will have the same "draft event" type. 3.2 Serial number AS-IS except the number is unique for all IETF events, not just for events related to a single document. 3.3 Date and time AS-IS 3.4 Title AS-IS 3.4 Gist Mostly AS-IS: merge current "Event abstract" and "Event URL". See my original comments for more details. 4. Overall operation 4.1 Event generation List a few known sources of events. Document where all IETF events should be sent for processing/filtering/storage. 4.2 Event subscription Briefly describe how users can subscribe to events (clicking on some buttons or sending an email). List interface types (web, email) to be supported for subscriptions. Emphasize automation. Talk about subscription confirmations (AAA). 4.3 Event delivery Current "Notification Dissemination Mechanisms", mostly AS-IS. List supported delivery interfaces (email, RSS, Atom). Mention that event rendering is type- and delivery-interface-specific. Mention event storage browsing/searching as a delivery method? 4.4 Event storage Require all events to be stored. Indefinitely? 5. Internet Draft Events 5.1 Identifying a draft Use current "Document Definition and Document Tags" AS IS. We can argue what "this draft" means to a user later. 5.2 Anatomy 5.2.1 Document tag (AS-IS) 5.2.2 Document name (AS-IS) 5.2.3 Document state (AS-IS plus move current "Document States" here?) 5.2.4 Document action (current "Event type", AS-IS) 5.3 Draft event generation Describe what generates draft events (the ID publication tool, other?) 5.4 Draft event subscription Move current "Kinds of Notification" here ... _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 14:54:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11496; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:54:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Vax-0007IH-FI; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:16:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1TsS-0007AV-WB; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:26:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1SeD-00010i-Ff for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:07:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24453 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:07:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from furball.foretec.com ([132.151.15.110] helo=foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1SzU-0000nM-Q7 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:29:32 -0500 Received: from host-4-166.cnri.reston.va.us ([10.27.4.166] helo=foretec-marcia.foretec.com) by foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1D1SeB-0001AE-Li; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:07:31 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20050216120018.01c99f18@furball.foretec.com> X-Sender: mbeaulie@furball.foretec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:07:21 -0500 To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com> From: Marcia Beaulieu <mbeaulie@foretec.com> Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements In-Reply-To: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD44BA@ma19exm01.e6.bcs. mot.com> References: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD44BA@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Hi Donald, I will be more than happy to discuss requirements that would be helpful for scheduling and pull together the information you have requested. Please let me know what time in Minneapolis will be convenient for you to meet. Sunday is usually too crazy of a day to schedule anything extra. I will not be at the meeting for the duration, I will be leaving early Thursday (March 10). Thanks, Marcia At 11:51 AM 2/16/2005, Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 wrote: >Hi Marcia, > >As per the voice mail I left earlier, I'm working on a tool to assist in >IETF meeting scheduling. Attached is the current requirements draft (I can >send it in a different format if the attachment is a problem). Any >comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > >It would also be very useful to have sample data such as the rooms >available and the room requests, either for a past meeting or for the >upcoming meeting. > >I will be in Minneapolis in March and would like to meet with you to talk >about this at our mutual convenience. > >Thanks, >Donald > >-----Original Message----- >From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [mailto:harald@alvestrand.no] >Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM >To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008; IETF TOOLS >Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements > >Don, > >have you either talked to Marcia or scheduled a meeting with her to discuss >the aspects that she takes into account when scheduling? > >We should use the resources we have. > > Harald > _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 15:05:32 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14057; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Vln-00081l-Q1; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:27:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1V09-0000j1-3Y; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:38:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1TBg-0003ML-WA for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:42:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03198 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:42:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from penguin.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.47]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1TWy-0003h4-6m for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:04:09 -0500 Received: from esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id j1GHg6h5011203 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:38 +0100 Received: from [147.214.237.81] (minint-fhqip3h3 [147.214.237.81]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id 18XKJFAV; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:45:13 +0100 Message-ID: <421385E3.4070405@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:41:55 +0100 X-Sybari-Trust: 231817ac b8ec86c7 90c04c48 00000139 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik.levkowetz@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050116) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2005 17:42:38.0732 (UTC) FILETIME=[E84D6CC0:01C5144E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 16 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here are the minutes from today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 0. Present: Donald, Henrik, Bill, Alex. It was not possible to call in to the regular number by POTS, (though it worked with sip), so we used an alternate number provided by Donald. Thanks, Donald! 1. Agenda bashing Donald asked for a few minutes; added before the Action Item review. 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. None 3a. Report from Donald Contacted Marcia, will get her feedback on scheduling. Also contacted Jesse Walker, who together with Donald have offered to do some similar scheduling system for IEEE 802 groups. Feedback on the requirement summary requested from Jesse, but not received yet. 3b. Action item review. * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. No report. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. Good progress, new post by end of week. This version should have all information items required from the pages in it. * Alex: Send concrete proposal to the list for text / document changes related to item 1) in the comments on the notifications draft, in case the changes are more minor than thought during the meeting discussion. Sent to the list today. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. Not done * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom Not done * Henrik: Continue with WG pages and Agenda pages work Prototype WG pages are available at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ * Donald: 4. Any other business. Bill's baby update: Movie theater visit upcoming later today. No computer experience yet :-) 5. Action items for next week: * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. Post new version before submission cutoff. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom * Henrik: Bring WG and Agenda pages to a state where they are generally usable. Send message to WG chairs list, and solicit input. * Donald: (Not for this week, but noted here anyway:) Meet up with Marcia in Minneapolis and get feedback and possibly also some sample data to use as test input for a prototype implementation. 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 23 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 15:21:27 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17449; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1W1B-0000Gr-Uw; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:43:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1VJ8-0003Qg-Ai; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:57:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1UDM-0001uC-VH for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:47:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21806 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:47:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1UYc-0001Mz-F2 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:09:55 -0500 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (az33exr03.mot.com [10.64.251.233]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id j1GIllkn027936 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j1GImIWN015018 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:48:19 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1LP6K142>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:47:46 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD44BC@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com> To: "'Marcia Beaulieu'" <mbeaulie@foretec.com> Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:47:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Hi Marcia, Great. I haven't really figured out my schedule for the meeting yet. I understand that things are very hectic for you Sunday but I expect I could find you around the Registration area and we could talk just long enough to figure out when we could meet later in the week, perhaps around lunch Monday or something. OK? Thanks, Donald -----Original Message----- From: Marcia Beaulieu [mailto:mbeaulie@foretec.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:07 PM To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Cc: IETF TOOLS Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements Hi Donald, I will be more than happy to discuss requirements that would be helpful for scheduling and pull together the information you have requested. Please let me know what time in Minneapolis will be convenient for you to meet. Sunday is usually too crazy of a day to schedule anything extra. I will not be at the meeting for the duration, I will be leaving early Thursday (March 10). Thanks, Marcia At 11:51 AM 2/16/2005, Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 wrote: >Hi Marcia, > >As per the voice mail I left earlier, I'm working on a tool to assist in >IETF meeting scheduling. Attached is the current requirements draft (I can >send it in a different format if the attachment is a problem). Any >comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > >It would also be very useful to have sample data such as the rooms >available and the room requests, either for a past meeting or for the >upcoming meeting. > >I will be in Minneapolis in March and would like to meet with you to talk >about this at our mutual convenience. > >Thanks, >Donald > >-----Original Message----- >From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [mailto:harald@alvestrand.no] >Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM >To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008; IETF TOOLS >Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements > >Don, > >have you either talked to Marcia or scheduled a meeting with her to discuss >the aspects that she takes into account when scheduling? > >We should use the resources we have. > > Harald > _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 15:23:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18006; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:23:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1W3O-0000PG-9L; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:45:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1VKG-0006QX-Jm; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:59:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1UMm-0006OH-Na for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:57:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA24956 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:57:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from furball.foretec.com ([132.151.15.110] helo=foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Uhs-0002NX-ID for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:19:29 -0500 Received: from host-4-166.cnri.reston.va.us ([10.27.4.166] helo=foretec-marcia.foretec.com) by foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1D1UMY-0001mn-4e; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:57:26 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20050216135622.01d2bda0@furball.foretec.com> X-Sender: mbeaulie@furball.foretec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:57:13 -0500 To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com> From: Marcia Beaulieu <mbeaulie@foretec.com> Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements In-Reply-To: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD44BC@ma19exm01.e6.bcs. mot.com> References: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD44BC@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 I will be around Sunday and we can set a time then. Monday lunch is good for me. Marcia At 01:47 PM 2/16/2005, Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 wrote: >Hi Marcia, > >Great. > >I haven't really figured out my schedule for the meeting yet. I understand >that things are very hectic for you Sunday but I expect I could find you >around the Registration area and we could talk just long enough to figure >out when we could meet later in the week, perhaps around lunch Monday or >something. OK? > >Thanks, >Donald > >-----Original Message----- >From: Marcia Beaulieu [mailto:mbeaulie@foretec.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:07 PM >To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 >Cc: IETF TOOLS >Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements > >Hi Donald, > >I will be more than happy to discuss requirements that would be helpful for >scheduling >and pull together the information you have requested. > >Please let me know what time in Minneapolis will be convenient for you to >meet. Sunday >is usually too crazy of a day to schedule anything extra. I will not be at >the meeting for >the duration, I will be leaving early Thursday (March 10). > >Thanks, > >Marcia > > >At 11:51 AM 2/16/2005, Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 wrote: > >Hi Marcia, > > > >As per the voice mail I left earlier, I'm working on a tool to assist in > >IETF meeting scheduling. Attached is the current requirements draft (I can > >send it in a different format if the attachment is a problem). Any > >comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > > > >It would also be very useful to have sample data such as the rooms > >available and the room requests, either for a past meeting or for the > >upcoming meeting. > > > >I will be in Minneapolis in March and would like to meet with you to talk > >about this at our mutual convenience. > > > >Thanks, > >Donald > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [mailto:harald@alvestrand.no] > >Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:29 AM > >To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008; IETF TOOLS > >Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Updated Meeting Scheduler Requirements > > > >Don, > > > >have you either talked to Marcia or scheduled a meeting with her to discuss > >the aspects that she takes into account when scheduling? > > > >We should use the resources we have. > > > > Harald > > _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 15:58:14 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24095; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Wao-0002Il-V6; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:20:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1W4R-0006E9-Nu; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:46:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1Vt7-0008Gj-5l for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:35:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20221 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from av7-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1WEQ-00012I-JY for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:57:11 -0500 Received: by av7-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 6C4BB37E7A; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:34:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.164]) by av7-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58BCD37E4E; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:34:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470E737E54; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:34:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D1VsT-0008B4-GY; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:34:29 +0100 Message-ID: <4213AE55.3010400@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:34:29 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Notifications draft restructuring References: <42134620.1050102@ericsson.com> <20050216095914.N74693@measurement-factory.com> In-Reply-To: <20050216095914.N74693@measurement-factory.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Alex. I'll let Stas comment on most of this, to me it seems less radical than the impression I got during the call. There's one point I'd like to comment on though; below: On 2005-02-16 6:01 pm Alex Rousskov said the following: [...] > 3.2 Serial number > > AS-IS except the number is unique for all IETF events, not just > for events related to a single document. Is there any particularly good reason for requiring this? (As opposed to per-feed serial numbers?) As I see it, it is not as useful as a per-document (or other event-type) serial number for anyone who subscribes to a feed and wants to check that they have seen all the events, or for anybody debugging some part of the chain. It also enforces one central point of numbering, which means that a lot of otherwise interesting implementations could be excluded because of this requirement; and it would be harder to iteratively test and prototype new feeds and event types, I think. Note that for a per-feed serial number, I'd still expect the feed to have some unique identifier - URL, URI or something - which when combined with the serial number would give a globally unique identifier for the event. If there is a strong reason for making this number overall unique, I would ask for a secondary per-feed serial number, anyway, as that would seem more immediately useful to me on both the generating and consuming end of a feed... Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 16:18:37 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26906; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:18:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1WuY-00030f-9M; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:42 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1WWt-0004QW-3A; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:16:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1WQ8-0000qP-04 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:09:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25398 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1WlP-0002gJ-Um for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:31:18 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j1GL9B3a087699; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:09:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:08:46 -0700 To: "Henrik Levkowetz" <henrik@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Notifications draft restructuring References: <42134620.1050102@ericsson.com> <20050216095914.N74693@measurement-factory.com> <4213AE55.3010400@levkowetz.com> From: "Alex Rousskov" <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <opsma6cwp9iz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> In-Reply-To: <4213AE55.3010400@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54u1 (FreeBSD, build 892) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 2005/02/16 (MST), <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote: > On 2005-02-16 6:01 pm Alex Rousskov said the following: > >> 3.2 Serial number >> >> AS-IS except the number is unique for all IETF events, not just >> for events related to a single document. > > Is there any particularly good reason for requiring this? > (As opposed to per-feed serial numbers?) I hope so. IMO, one should be able to refer to any event (regardless of type) by the event ID.Event storage and other management algorithms would make use of it. Even humans will use it for bug reporting and such. Note that the cost of producing a unique ID is negligible in this context. No complex schemes are needed. For example, an MD5 checksum over all other event fields would suffice. The world certainly moves into that direction, with IPv6 addresses for every device or RF tags for every human :-). > As I see it, it is not as useful as a per-document (or other > event-type) serial number for anyone who subscribes to a feed > and wants to check that they have seen all the events, or for > anybody debugging some part of the chain. Per-document numbers might be useful as well. One does not preclude the other. > It also enforces one central point of numbering, which means > that a lot of otherwise interesting implementations could be > excluded because of this requirement; and it would be harder > to iteratively test and prototype new feeds and event types, > I think. I would not generate that number centrally (see the MD5 example above). I should have mentioned that, but I decided that increasing-without-gaps versus just-unique debate can wait until later. That was probably a mistake. BTW, I am also not convinced yet that there will be a single source or single sink for all document-related events. If there is no single source/sink, then there cannot be an increasing-without-gaps ID, even for document events. This is just a question for a future discussion, secondary to the subject of this thread. I do find the "did I miss any events?" feature interesting. However, with all the filters, I am not sure it would be practical to support it based on a single event number. Imagine, for example, that I only receive "last call" events for a given document. Did I miss any last calls? The proposed serial number will not tell me. One can argue that Last Call should have its own event type, of course. That solution will lead to many event types, which perhaps is a natural path to take. However, I can construct a more complex filter where a new event type is not appropriate. > Note that for a per-feed serial number, I'd still expect the > feed to have some unique identifier - URL, URI or something - > which when combined with the serial number would give a globally > unique identifier for the event. This ID must not be specific to event type for it to be useful for general purposes. General algorithms will not know about document-specific fields. > If there is a strong reason for making this number overall > unique, I would ask for a secondary per-feed serial number, > anyway, as that would seem more immediately useful to me on > both the generating and consuming end of a feed... Yes, except I am worried about your "single feed for a given event type" assumption. It sounds too centralized to me and, as the examples above illustrate, does not seem to solve the problem of detecting "missing events" in case of a non-trivial subscription filter. We need to discuss this further, and the restructured document should state our single-source or multiple-source assumptions clearly. Again, this issue is secondary to the overall generic-versus-specific restructuring I am advocating. I agree that we must decide how to identify events, but that decision may come later as both approaches can accomodate various event identity schemes. Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 16 17:04:27 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02244; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:04:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Xcu-0004SD-R5; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:26:33 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1XFq-0007IJ-TW; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:02:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D1XCG-0005VI-6W for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:59:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01487 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1XXZ-0004FB-C1 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:21:02 -0500 Received: by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id E503437E86; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:58:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.164]) by av1-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DF037E4B; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:58:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AAC37E42; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:58:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D1XBi-0007iY-GN; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:58:26 +0100 Message-ID: <4213C202.6050401@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:58:26 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Notifications draft restructuring References: <42134620.1050102@ericsson.com> <20050216095914.N74693@measurement-factory.com> <4213AE55.3010400@levkowetz.com> <opsma6cwp9iz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> In-Reply-To: <opsma6cwp9iz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-02-16 10:08 pm Alex Rousskov said the following: > On Wed, 2005/02/16 (MST), <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote: > >> On 2005-02-16 6:01 pm Alex Rousskov said the following: >> >>> 3.2 Serial number >>> >>> AS-IS except the number is unique for all IETF events, not just >>> for events related to a single document. >> >> Is there any particularly good reason for requiring this? >> (As opposed to per-feed serial numbers?) > > I hope so. IMO, one should be able to refer to any event (regardless of > type) by the event ID.Event storage and other management algorithms would > make use of it. Even humans will use it for bug reporting and such. Note > that the cost of producing a unique ID is negligible in this context. No > complex schemes are needed. For example, an MD5 checksum over all other > event fields would suffice. > > The world certainly moves into that direction, with IPv6 addresses for > every device or RF tags for every human :-). Ok. I don't mind something like an MD5 checksum - however this is not strictly a _serial_ number; which was the base of my objection (producing a global event serial number). >> As I see it, it is not as useful as a per-document (or other >> event-type) serial number for anyone who subscribes to a feed >> and wants to check that they have seen all the events, or for >> anybody debugging some part of the chain. > > Per-document numbers might be useful as well. One does not preclude the > other. Agreed. >> It also enforces one central point of numbering, which means >> that a lot of otherwise interesting implementations could be >> excluded because of this requirement; and it would be harder >> to iteratively test and prototype new feeds and event types, >> I think. > > I would not generate that number centrally (see the MD5 example above). I > should have mentioned that, but I decided that increasing-without-gaps > versus just-unique debate can wait until later. That was probably a > mistake. Ok, cleared up now. > BTW, I am also not convinced yet that there will be a single source or > single sink for all document-related events. If there is no single > source/sink, then there cannot be an increasing-without-gaps ID, even for > document events. This is just a question for a future discussion, > secondary to the subject of this thread. I agree there will almost certainly be multiple sources; I'm not sure we can't arrange to have a single source per serially numbered events. > I do find the "did I miss any events?" feature interesting. However, with > all the filters, I am not sure it would be practical to support it based > on a single event number. Imagine, for example, that I only receive "last > call" events for a given document. Did I miss any last calls? The proposed > serial number will not tell me. One can argue that Last Call should have > its own event type, of course. That solution will lead to many event > types, which perhaps is a natural path to take. However, I can construct a > more complex filter where a new event type is not appropriate. Agreed. I'm only thinking in terms of serial numbers for base events. >> Note that for a per-feed serial number, I'd still expect the >> feed to have some unique identifier - URL, URI or something - >> which when combined with the serial number would give a globally >> unique identifier for the event. > > This ID must not be specific to event type for it to be useful for general > purposes. General algorithms will not know about document-specific fields. Agreed. >> If there is a strong reason for making this number overall >> unique, I would ask for a secondary per-feed serial number, >> anyway, as that would seem more immediately useful to me on >> both the generating and consuming end of a feed... > > Yes, except I am worried about your "single feed for a given event type" > assumption. It sounds too centralized to me and, as the examples above > illustrate, does not seem to solve the problem of detecting "missing > events" in case of a non-trivial subscription filter. We need to discuss > this further, and the restructured document should state our single-source > or multiple-source assumptions clearly. I guess. Although I'm not this obviates the usefulness of serial numbers for base events. > Again, this issue is secondary to the overall generic-versus-specific > restructuring I am advocating. I agree that we must decide how to identify > events, but that decision may come later as both approaches can accomodate > various event identity schemes. Fair enough, in this context. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 18 01:30:06 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04791; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:30:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2202-0006s4-83; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:52:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D21XA-0006Bm-I8; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:22:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D21Vr-0005NY-Iy for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:21:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04215 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:21:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D21rR-0006ha-C3 for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:43:35 -0500 Received: from ppp23f4.dyn.pacific.net.au ([61.8.35.244]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D21Vl-0005s3-Tb for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:21:11 -0500 Message-ID: <f4f801c51580$a17a61ab$d72847af@abacom.com> From: "Paul A. Davis" <hairil@abacom.com> To: tools-team@ietf.org Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:06:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Subject: [Tools-team] Cialis - No prescription needed! 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team --===============1176711095==-- From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 18 03:31:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA04873; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D23tc-00011j-BO; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:53:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D23V8-00010R-Cb; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:28:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D23NT-0006bz-G8 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:20:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA04043; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:20:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.107]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D23j0-0000mJ-QL; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:43:00 -0500 Received: by av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A4D2C37E7A; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:19:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9398337E48; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:19:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8139A37E46; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:19:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D23Mf-0002ak-CQ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:19:53 +0100 Message-ID: <4215A529.8090205@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:19:53 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-team@ietf.org, ietf-action@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Recent spam on tools-team mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having just seen a spam appear on the list, I went to check the Mailman settings, and it seems they have mysteriously changed from permitting posts only from list members, to permitting posts from anybody to the list. I've put the setting back to hold anything which is not from list members, but I'm wondering how this could happen. Has there been a Mailman upgrade during the last month or so, or ?? Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 20 21:03:20 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05634; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:03:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D33H7-0000Eu-PE; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:26:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D32Tu-0003hT-96; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:35:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D324v-0006H4-4E; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:09:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA00630; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D32R0-00075m-IL; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:32:27 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j1L19P3a096268; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:09:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org References: <20041221224347.D44914@measurement-factory.com> <opsjyol5c6iz3etf0c9082f7@localhost.rousskov.org> Message-ID: <opsmiv460ziz3etf0c9082f7@pail.measurement-factory.com> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:08:56 -0700 From: "Alex Rousskov" <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=----------87o325mzmHYfUJ2L4tUz4L MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <opsjyol5c6iz3etf0c9082f7@localhost.rousskov.org> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54u1 (FreeBSD, build 892) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b94423d57458a72e07b422b40e685d94 Cc: IETF Tools <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: [Tools-team] Request To Publish: draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-01 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8897a8f96c648179e32cc9ffbb0aaffd ------------87o325mzmHYfUJ2L4tUz4L Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please post the attached draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-01.txt file as a Tools team Internet-Draft. Thank you, Alex. ------------87o325mzmHYfUJ2L4tUz4L Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-01.txt Content-Type: text/plain; name=draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-01.txt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tools team A. Rousskov Internet-Draft The Measurement Factory Expires: August 24, 2005 February 20, 2005 Requirements for Providing Information on IETF Internet-Drafts draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-01 Status of this Memo This document is an Internet-Draft and is subject to all provisions of Section 3 of RFC 3667. By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she become aware will be disclosed, in accordance with RFC 3668. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. This Internet-Draft will expire on August 24, 2005. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005). Abstract This document specifies what information IETF should provide about an IETF Internet-Draft. Information requirements cover submitted, posted, published, expired, and other personal or Working Group drafts. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 1] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2. State of this draft version . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3. Scope . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4. Notation and Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5. Status quo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6. Draft information . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6.1 Draft identifier . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6.2 Draft metadata . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6.2.1 Status . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6.3 Draft versions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6.4 Change history . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6.5 Draft events . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 7. Draft Version . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 7.1 Version identifier . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 7.2 Version metadata . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7.3 Primary version format . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7.4 Version formats . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 8. Format information . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 8.1 Format metadata . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 8.2 Format data . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9. Email interface . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 10. Implementation stages . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 11. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 12. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 13. Compliance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 A. Comparison with current procedures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 B. Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 C. Change log . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 14. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . 11 Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 2] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 1. Introduction Public Internet-Drafts are primary means of structured communication within IETF. The information that IETF currently provides about any given draft is decentralized and often insufficient to facilitate on-going draft review and use by IETFers and 3rd parties. The IETF Tools team recommends creation of a single, authoritative, and comprehensive IETF source for draft information. This document specifies what information IETF should provide about a draft and, to a limited extent, how that information needs to be provided. Most, if not all, requirements in this document are inspired by existing sources of draft information, both on official IETF web sites and sites administered outside of IETF. 2. State of this draft version This draft version is meant to contain a complete list of draft information items. Some items need more documentation and supplementary sections are missing content. This version may not represent Tools team consensus. The text has not been polished. Please review this draft. Did we miss any draft information items you want IETF to provide? Should we remove some of the items? We are also looking for additional pointers to resources providing useful draft information. Please post your comments on tools-discuss@ietf.org mailing list or email them directly to the author. RFC Editor Note: Please remove this section for the final publication of the document. It has been inspired by draft-rousskov-newtrk-id-state and related NEWTRK WG discussions. 3. Scope The document scope is a single Internet-Draft, including multiple versions and formats of the same draft. Requirements cover submitted, posted, published, expired, and unknown personal or Working Group drafts. The interfaces required to locate a draft or correlate information about multiple drafts are out of scope. 4. Notation and Terminology The following terms are to be interpreted according to their definitions below. [[XXX2: Should we just refer to draft-ietf-tools-draft-submission, which has the same definitions? Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 3] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 --Alex]] posted draft: A draft accepted into public IETF draft repository and, hence, publicly available on IETF web site. draft version: A meant-to-be-public snapshot of an Internet-Draft with a meant-to-be-unique version number. Also known as a "draft revision". draft format: Any draft source or presentation format, including original and preprocessed XML, original or generated plain text as well as PDF, PostScript, and HTML formats. primary draft format: The first available draft format from the following list: plain text, PDF, PostScript, or XML. WG draft: A draft which identifier (a.k.a. filename) is known and starts with "draft-ietf-". individual draft: A draft other than a WG draft. Normative requirements in this document are English phrases ending with an "(Rnnn/s)" mark, where "nnn" is a unique requirement number, and "s" is a single letter code ("a", "b", or "c") specifying the implementation stage for the requirement. Implementation stages are documented in Section 10. [[XXX1: Normative requirements have not been identified yet. --Alex]] This document does not specify how the implementation must obtain necessary draft information and does not require specific information rendering techniques. However, implementation hints or examples are often useful. To avoid mix up with normative requirements, such hints and examples are marked with a "Hint:" prefix. Implementation hints do not carry any normative force, and a different implementation may be the best choice. 5. Status quo At the time of writing, all of the draft information pieces described in this document are already available in one form or another. Here is an incomplete list of resources providing draft information. Note that provided information outside of this draft scope is not mentioned here. o IETF "Internet-Drafts Database Interface" [1]: Provides draft title, status, state, intended RFC category, RFC number, related documents, abstract, author names and emails. Format: HTML. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 4] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 o IETF "Internet-Drafts Tracker" [2]: Provides draft name, version, status, state, shepherding AD name, modification date, WG name, and IESG discussion details. Format: HTML. o Henrik Levkowetz "Workgroup draft pages" [3]: Provides draft name, date, all draft versions, diffs, nits, various draft formats, and last call information. Format: XHTML. o Henrik Levkowetz "Drafts document repositories" [4]: Provides draft name, date, all draft versions, diffs, nits, various draft formats, and last call information. Format: XHTML. o Potaroo Internet Drafts Repository [5]: Provides draft name, date, author names, WG name, abstract. Includes expired drafts. Format: HTML. 6. Draft information The following information must be available about a given draft: o draft identifier (Section 6.1) o draft meta-data (Section 6.2) o available draft versions (Section 6.3) o change history (Section 6.4) o events (Section 6.5) In addition to the above information, a "notify me when this draft changes" functionality should eventually be supported. It may also be useful to supplement the above data with a pointer to the "IESG draft discussion" tracking page, especially for drafts already submitted for publication. Details of these features are outside of this document scope. 6.1 Draft identifier Draft identifier is a string that uniquely identifies any IETF draft regardless of version or status. At the time of writing, draft name can be used as an identifier, but implementations must not rely on that being the case. For example, future implementations may be able to keep the same identifier for a draft that changes ownership from individual to WG. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 5] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 6.2 Draft metadata Draft metadata depends, in part, on draft status and includes the following items: o title o authors information o WG name o draft status (Section 6.2.1) o published document information (for published drafts) o email address for draft discussion and comments o "obsoletes X" or "renamed to Y" information Draft metadata applies to the draft as a whole rather than specific draft version. Nevertheless, it is based on the latest draft version and, hence, may change with draft revisions. For example, the title may be extracted from the latest draft version. All draft metadata must be available in format(s) suitable for human consumption and in XML format. [[XXX3: If we explicitly list title, should we also list abstract? Moreover, should we list any fields that are meant-to-be extractable from the latest draft version? --Alex]] 6.2.1 Status A draft status is either "active", "expired", or "published". The status determines a subset of available draft metadata. The status also affects the availability of draft text and possibility of future text revisions. 6.3 Draft versions Each draft has at least one draft version associated with it. Draft information includes a list of all draft versions, including the expired ones. This index allows the user to assess draft revision activity and to access information specific to any version of a given draft (see Section 7). It also allows to determine the latest draft version. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 6] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 6.4 Change history Change history provides information about the difference between any two versions of a given draft. That information includes the difference in draft version metadata and in draft version content. Change history may be precomputed or generated runtime, possibly depending on the versions being compared. For example, the implementation may assume that most users would be interested in changes between sequential versions and precomputed that while providing runtime-generated differences between arbitrary two versions. 6.5 Draft events Draft events information includes a list of all issued IETF events associated with the draft. This document does not define an IETF event interface, but typical entries might include "new draft version available" and "WG last call issued". 7. Draft Version For each available draft version, the following information should be provided: o version identifier (Section 7.1) o version meta-data (Section 7.2) o primary version format (Section 7.3) o all available version formats (Section 7.4) 7.1 Version identifier Draft version identifier is a non-negative integer number that uniquely identifies any draft version of a given draft. Version identifier values must increase by one with every new draft version posted. At the time of writing, draft version number can be used as an identifier, but implementations must not rely on that being the case. For example, future implementations may be able to keep incrementing version identifier when a draft changes ownership from individual to WG. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 7] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 7.2 Version metadata Draft version includes the following items: o version number o posting date o nits 7.3 Primary version format 7.4 Version formats 8. Format information 8.1 Format metadata Draft version format metadata includes the following items: o format identifier (TXT, HTML, PDF, or PS) o format MIME type o format size o format-specific info (e.g., number of pages for text formats or PDF-specific nits) 8.2 Format data Draft version format data is the content (a.k.a., "text") of the draft version, in the corresponding format. 9. Email interface TBD 10. Implementation stages TBD. 11. Security Considerations TBD. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 8] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 12. IANA Considerations None. 13. Compliance TBD. Appendix A. Comparison with current procedures This section summarizes major differences between information currently provided by IETF and what is being proposed, including violations of the current IETF rules. o Currently, IETF provides only the latest draft version. This document requires providing all unexpired versions. This change allows to maintain a change history useful for draft review and discussion. The change does not seem to contradict written IETF rules and principles. If an experiment with providing unexpired but obsolete versions does not cause significant problems, the IETF rules might be modified to also provide all draft versions for unexpired drafts and, later, all draft versions ever posted. Appendix B. Acknowledgments Special thanks to Marshall Rose for his xml2rfc tool. Appendix C. Change log RFC Editor Note: This section is to be removed during the final publication of the document. Internal WG revision control ID: $Id: draft-info.xml,v 1.3 2005/02/16 06:07:01 rousskov Exp $ version 01 * Added missing draft information pieces and claimed that this version lists all pieces we want to provide. Many items still lack details. * Separated draft information pieces into draft/version/format layers. * Added "Status quo" section: Documented what draft information is currently available and listed a few sites providing that information. More popular sites needed. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 9] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 version 00 * Initial version. 14. Normative References [RFC3667] Bradner, S., "IETF Rights in Contributions", BCP 78, RFC 3667, February 2004. [RFC3668] Bradner, S., "Intellectual Property Rights in IETF Technology", BCP 79, RFC 3668, February 2004. [1] <https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/idindex.cgi> [2] <https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi> [3] <http://tools.ietf.org/drafts> [4] <http://ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/> [5] <http://www.potaroo.net/ietf/> Author's Address Alex Rousskov The Measurement Factory Email: rousskov@measurement-factory.com URI: http://www.measurement-factory.com/ Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 10] Internet-Draft Draft Information Requirements February 2005 Intellectual Property Statement The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in this document or the extent to which any license under such rights might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at http://www.ietf.org/ipr. The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at ietf-ipr@ietf.org. Disclaimer of Validity This document and the information contained herein are provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Copyright Statement Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005). This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights. Acknowledgment Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently provided by the Internet Society. Rousskov Expires August 24, 2005 [Page 11] ------------87o325mzmHYfUJ2L4tUz4L Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team ------------87o325mzmHYfUJ2L4tUz4L-- From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 23:57:54 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA29243; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:57:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4BRK-0006jb-RL; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:21:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D40TJ-0006GF-Q9; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:38:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D40TI-0006G3-6T for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:38:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17143 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:38:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from av3-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.109]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D40q1-00024r-Fh for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:02:18 -0500 Received: by av3-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 123C537E55; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:38:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.177]) by av3-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CE337E4B for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:38:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6ED38015 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:38:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D40T5-0000p8-Jn for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:38:35 +0100 Message-ID: <421CBF9B.3010100@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:38:35 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 23 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 825e642946eda55cd9bc654a36dab8c2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here are the minutes from today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 0. Present: Stas, Alex, Donald, Bill 1. Agenda bashing Nothing 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. Nope 3. Action item review. * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. Alex' and Bill's comments read, but not yet integrated into the draft. The aim is to do this integration and send a new version to the list before Minneapolis * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. Post new version before submission cut-off. New version posted (but hasn't been announced yet). Some feed- back from the team on that document is desired before continuing work on the next version. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. Bill's database turned out not to be in quite the state he thought, and it seems infeasible to generate prototype feeds from it. Bill will produce a feed mock-up instead. * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom Not done. * Henrik: Bring WG and Agenda pages to a state where they are generally usable. Send message to WG chairs list, and solicit input. WG pages released to the wg chairs list, and well received. Will put link to the pages on the main IETF Tools site, and post summary of status and comments received to the list. * Donald: (Not for this week, but noted here anyway:) Meet up with Marcia in Minneapolis and get feedback and possibly also some sample data to use as test input for a prototype implementation. Have arranged to meet up with Marcia in Minneapolis. 4. Any other business. * Move to a model of working where some implementation may start before completed draft? Tentatively, yes, but some caveats: * That something has been implemented one particular way may not restrict what goes into the document * Implementation shouldn't start so early that it requires too many changes ( which means too much money and effort ) to align the tool with the document * Care must be taken that a contractor does not use early start to spend a lot of time/money revising and rebuilding a tool, multiplying the cost to the IETF with this as an excuse * Harald has received feedback from the secretariat on the submission tool draft - a lot seem to be just clarifications, some other changes may be needed, and there's a policy change needed w.r.t. XML submissions. 5. Action items for next week. * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. * Bill: Try to have a mocked-up XML feed available next week * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom * Henrik: Continue working on the WG draft and agenda pages. Summarize status and comments to the list. Put link to WG pages on the main IETF Tools site. * Donald: (Not for this week, but noted here anyway:) Meet up with Marcia in Minneapolis and get feedback and possibly also some sample data to use as test input for a prototype implementation. 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 30 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 00:49:41 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19327; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:49:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4CFT-0004OL-IK; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:13:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3zfo-0006ZN-Sr; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:47:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3zfn-0006Yp-BJ for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:47:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09281 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:47:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from av9-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.116]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D402O-0008Ap-QJ for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:11:03 -0500 Received: by av9-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 73B1A37E67; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.163]) by av9-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597F337E42 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436E037E42 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D3zfV-00012p-5p for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:21 +0100 Message-ID: <421CB398.50706@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:47:20 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 23 Feb 2005 Telechat X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here are the proposed agenda for today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. 3. Action item review. * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. Post new version before submission cut-off. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom * Henrik: Bring WG and Agenda pages to a state where they are generally usable. Send message to WG chairs list, and solicit input. * Donald: (Not for this week, but noted here anyway:) Meet up with Marcia in Minneapolis and get feedback and possibly also some sample data to use as test input for a prototype implementation. 4. Any other business. 5. Action items for next week. 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 30 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 10:26:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02039; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:26:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4LFL-0000Ds-Vr; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:49:49 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4KpA-0004VU-A6; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:22:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Kp9-0004V6-2X for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:22:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01699 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate7.mot.com ([129.188.136.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4LC3-00007z-1G for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:46:24 -0500 Received: from az33exr02.mot.com (az33exr02.mot.com [10.64.251.232]) by motgate7.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j1OFCkmW016705 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr02.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j1OFNipx010937 for <tools-team@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:23:45 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1LP6MA9A>; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:22:37 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF238105CD4510@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com> To: IETF TOOLS <tools-team@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 23 Feb 2005 Telechat Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:22:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." <tools-team.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tools-team> List-Post: <mailto:tools-team@ietf.org> List-Help: <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team>, <mailto:tools-team-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 I received this message shortly after midnight last night. There have been previous cases where I received the minutes of a call before the agenda. The delay through the IETF servers really seems to be such that the agenda/reminder should be sent out at least 36 hours before the call. Donald -----Original Message----- From: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tools-team-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henrik Levkowetz Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 11:47 AM To: IETF TOOLS Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 23 Feb 2005 Telechat Hi, Here are the proposed agenda for today's meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on minutes from last teleconference. 3. Action item review. * Stas: Continue working on the Notification Service Requirements. * Alex: Continue thinking about Draft Status Page Requirements. Post new version before submission cut-off. * Bill: Try to have a sample XML feed ready, with transformation to RSS in place, based on the current database. * Henrik: Help with the mapping of notification elements to Atom * Henrik: Bring WG and Agenda pages to a state where they are generally usable. Send message to WG chairs list, and solicit input. * Donald: (Not for this week, but noted here anyway:) Meet up with Marcia in Minneapolis and get feedback and possibly also some sample data to use as test input for a prototype implementation. 4. Any other business. 5. Action items for next week. 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 30 Feb, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). --------------------------------------------------------- Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team