From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 05 16:33:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENFxW-0001WZ-7V; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:33:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENBZO-0003pR-Cs for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:52:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01541 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENBiE-0007nw-Mm for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:01:51 -0400 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.122]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A6AEBB32 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:52:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.173]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:51:41 +0200 Received: from [147.214.237.31] ([147.214.237.31]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:51:41 +0200 Message-ID: <4343F684.50301@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:51:32 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050602) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-team@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2005 15:51:41.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADF2F140:01C5C9C4] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:33:49 -0400 Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 5 October Teleconference X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Here is the proposed agenda for today's meeting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on the minutes from previous meeting 3. New charter available 4. Status review * Event scraping and generation, event xml schema, dashboard - Henrik * Event notification prototype - Jeroen * Draft info draft - Alex * Scheduling tool - Donald * IETF Website re-vamp - Andrew 5. Any other business 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 19 Oct, 16:00 GMT (same local time as today). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 05 16:33:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENFxW-0001Wz-FG; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:33:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENCZs-0002Ay-Hs for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:57:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04775 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENCin-0001GU-H4 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:06:26 -0400 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.120]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 0604C701 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:57:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.171]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:56:44 +0200 Received: from [147.214.237.31] ([147.214.237.31]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:56:43 +0200 Message-ID: <434405C1.2020504@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:56:33 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050602) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2005 16:56:43.0815 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3AAB370:01C5C9CD] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:33:49 -0400 Subject: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 5 October Teleconference X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Here are the minutes from today's meeting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 0. Present: Alex, Andrew, Henrik 1. Agenda bashing Nothing 2. Comments on the minutes from previous meeting None 3. New charter available Brian has ok'ed the new charter, which is now up on tools.ietf.org. 4. Status review * Event scraping and generation, event xml schema, dashboard - Henrik Some progress on event extraction work. Have re-worked the XML schema again(!), this time re-using quite a bit from the Atom specification, so all events, event collections and draft meta-information will be valid Atom entries/feeds. Hope to have the event extraction running for ietf-announce, id-announce, rfc-queue and the tracker some time next week. * Event notification prototype - Jeroen (Not on the call, but based on mail exchange with Henrik the status is: Notifications are now working; there is a daemon which runs all the time and talks to a bitlbee server, allowing it to handle jabber/msn/icq/irc/yahoo protocols in addition to email. There's also a website part, which allows self-registration + validation of new accounts based on mail address. Using the interface users can then subscribe to events that they want to receive over channels that the user can define. Event parser and possibly draft info import remains. Next is to set things up on one of the tools servers, compile things together and let it run so the team can see how it looks. Hopefully some of this can be accomplished over the coming weekend.) * Draft info draft - Alex No progress this time, but is seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully not a train. * Scheduling tool - Donald (Not on the call, but based on mail exchange with Henrik the status is: Has had a lot of meeting activities over the last month. Hopes to be able to find time to get some real progress this week or next.) * IETF Website re-vamp - Andrew After a very busy time has now been able to free up some time for tools work. Wanted some feedback on the premises for the website re-org -- it seems that most of the pages are hand edited, and differ sufficiently that it won't be realistic to do any automated conversion. Will anything we do now be able to stay organised, or do we need to go to some simple off-the shelf software to give structure to the site? - We should be able to assume that given a layout and structure, there will be sufficient know-how to maintain them at that level. We should provide a structure and layout proposal, and accept that a bit of hand work will be needed to convert the site, which should be OK if the result makes it easy to find needed information, and makes it easy to keep a consistent look and feel. 5. Any other business * We should hopefully be able to meet with Ray in Vancouver, and there may also be a meeting with the NeuStar people. ** Not mentioned on the call: ** Although it's taken a lot more time than I expected, it looks like we will have native IPv6 connectivity up for at least one of the tools servers within a week or two; would be nice to be able to announce this before Vancouver. 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 19 Oct, 16:00 GMT (same local time as today). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 05 21:50:59 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENKuR-0000J7-Er; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:50:59 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENKuQ-0000J2-UP for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:50:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA15329 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-dark.research.att.com ([192.20.225.112] helo=mail-yellow.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENL3P-0005c1-CT for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:00:16 -0400 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F18484EE; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j961olPd001409; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:50:47 -0700 From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <200510060150.j961olPd001409@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 5 October Teleconference Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:50:47 -0700 Versions: dmail (linux) 2.7/makemail 2.14 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Tools Team X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Sorry for missing today's call. We had to have our septic system diagnosed and the guy came right at 8:55 so I had to spend time with him :-( > Will anything we do now be able > to stay organised, or do we need to go to some simple off-the > shelf software to give structure to the site? I've been playing with plone for an ietf.org site; it's a *much* heavier-weight thing than we've been talking about but I really like it for a) distributed authoring - Brian has /u/ietfchair but it'd be nice if that was less segregated. b) not having to know HTML to create pages - Kupu is a pretty nice editor (but doesn't work in Safari yet :-( c) Keeping the structure seperate from the content, as the navigation tree and top tabs Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 06 10:30:05 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENWl3-0003Ux-C7; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:30:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENWl2-0003Tl-0y for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:30:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07340 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENWu6-0002EN-Af for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:39:28 -0400 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ENWko-0007zT-7S for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:29:50 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 0619113744; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:29:46 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: tools-team@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 5 October Teleconference Message-ID: <20051006142946.GC13307@libertyrms.info> References: <200510060150.j961olPd001409@bright.research.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200510060150.j961olPd001409@bright.research.att.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 06:50:47PM -0700, Bill Fenner wrote: > I've been playing with plone for an ietf.org site; it's a *much* > heavier-weight thing than we've been talking about but I really > like it for This was the sort of alternative answer I was thinking about (I'd likely argue for something other than plone, but that's just a detail). > a) distributed authoring - Brian has /u/ietfchair but it'd be > nice if that was less segregated. This is one of the precise problems I think we have, and I wonder whether the NeuStar staff will really be able to address it. But my understanding now is that that's Not Our Problem -- it's going to be theirs, and if they think they _can't_ handle it, well, they can pick a management system at that point. > b) not having to know HTML to create pages - Kupu is a pretty > nice editor (but doesn't work in Safari yet :-( This one I'm less worried about, except in the context of (a). That is, the problem isn't that anyone's favourite HTML editor won't produce perfectly good HTML; but we'll be back to everyone with their own flavour, and site consistency will quickly end up back where we are. A ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 06 23:04:01 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENiWf-0004zP-Jz; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENiWd-0004zH-G7 for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:03:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA04461 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-dark.research.att.com ([192.20.225.112] helo=mail-yellow.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENifp-0005rS-FS for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:13:30 -0400 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219E3147B03; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j9733lLw003630; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:03:47 -0700 From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <200510070303.j9733lLw003630@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 5 October Teleconference References: <200510060150.j961olPd001409@bright.research.att.com> <20051006142946.GC13307@libertyrms.info> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:03:47 -0700 Versions: dmail (linux) 2.7/makemail 2.14 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org >> b) not having to know HTML to create pages - Kupu is a pretty >> nice editor (but doesn't work in Safari yet :-( > >This one I'm less worried about, except in the context of (a). That >is, the problem isn't that anyone's favourite HTML editor won't >produce perfectly good HTML; but we'll be back to everyone with their >own flavour, and site consistency will quickly end up back where we >are. Plone embeds the user's HTML inside the navigation & other stuff that it generates, so however it's done this isn't an issue. For example, the source for http://rtg.ietf.org/ simply starts

Welcome to the IETF Routing Area web page! This site is meant to contain general Routing Area information, as well as per-working group and plone renders the logo, search box, navigation, news, etc. around it - so users don't have to be consistent when editing pages, the part that it's important to be consistent is handled completely by the CMS.. There's also StructuredText, which is a wikilike plain-text markup, and for lots of purposes people can just write regular old text text. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 07 07:30:12 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENqQW-0000Ti-Rs; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:30:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENqQU-0000TU-OK for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:30:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12043 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENqZl-0001IV-Ra for tools-team@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:39:46 -0400 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ENqQH-0002fS-TX; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:29:57 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 51E7113744; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:29:54 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Bill Fenner Subject: Re: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 5 October Teleconference Message-ID: <20051007112954.GA31788@libertyrms.info> References: <200510060150.j961olPd001409@bright.research.att.com> <20051006142946.GC13307@libertyrms.info> <200510070303.j9733lLw003630@bright.research.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200510070303.j9733lLw003630@bright.research.att.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: Andrew Sullivan , tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 08:03:47PM -0700, Bill Fenner wrote: > > Plone embeds the user's HTML inside the navigation & other stuff that > it generates, so however it's done this isn't an issue. For example, Right; that's the advantage of a CMS (of any kind). But it seems that others think that's too heavyweight. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 07:48:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPf6F-0005Qz-Rm; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:48:47 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPf6B-0005OY-EL for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:48:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15852 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPfGU-0007rT-4D for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:59:22 -0400 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EPf61-0008Cb-Gs; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:48:33 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1019) id B30EC13744; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:48:27 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: Fwd: web pages (was: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 7 Sept. . .) Message-ID: <20051012114827.GD7832@libertyrms.info> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050927092007.02b645b8@furball.foretec.com> <434CB97F.3090106@zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <434CB97F.3090106@zurich.ibm.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: andrew@ca.afilias.info, tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi, On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 09:21:35AM +0200, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > 1. In my mind a great virtue of the IETF web site is that it doesn't > use anything fancy - simple fonts, no splashes, no coloured backgrounds > and very litte use of images. For what is basically a working tool > and not a sales or PR medium, this is how it should be. So I have > a strong resistance to using almost any kind of middleware to generate, > format or beautify the site. I don't think anybody was suggesting that we make this a splashware site. The basic issue I'm concerned about is site rot. It's obvious, once you start digging, that the problems originate partly from what amounts to organic growth of the site -- various people deciding where to put things, and hand-editing files. These combine to entail a more or less unscriptable redesign of the site. We were originally proposing a very simple design, with nothing more complicated than server side includes (to make mirroring less expensive). We're still planning that, but I'll continue to keep some sort of CMS as a second option in case we discover that the future site maintainers are uncomfortable with fairly rigid human controls on site management. That said, your points are all good, and precisely in line with what we've had as a plan. Re: number 6, the goal is certainly to follow the W3C's recommendations on accessibility; we've also used (this far anecdotal) knowledge of actual users' accessibility strategies, so as not to inconvenience users. > I wonder if the next stage shouldn't be a current site map > (presumably some sort of crawler can create that) and a proposed > new site map, so that we can compare the click paths. Well, I have one in my head :) But the trouble is mostly that there's not much topography -- most of the primary site is all in one directory, with a few very clear exceptions. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 11:05:42 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ4eM-0001Mb-Bj; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:05:42 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPavu-0005hL-LX for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:21:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02259 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtagate4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPb68-0000Uj-Kz for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:32:25 -0400 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate4.uk.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9C7Lc00206810 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:21:38 GMT Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.216]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9C7LcH2236872 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:21:38 +0100 Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9C7Lb4x025163 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:21:38 +0100 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9C7Lbwh025153; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:21:37 +0100 Received: from zurich.ibm.com (sig-9-145-254-38.de.ibm.com [9.145.254.38]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA49808; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:21:36 +0200 Message-ID: <434CB97F.3090106@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:21:35 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en, fr, de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andrew@ca.afilias.info Subject: Re: Fwd: web pages (was: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 7 Sept. . .) References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050927092007.02b645b8@furball.foretec.com> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050927092007.02b645b8@furball.foretec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 848ed35f2a4fc0638fa89629cb640f48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:05:41 -0400 Cc: tools-team@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi folks, Barbara kindly forwarded this to me as I was curious about progress on this front. I'd like to make a few comments of my own. 1. In my mind a great virtue of the IETF web site is that it doesn't use anything fancy - simple fonts, no splashes, no coloured backgrounds and very litte use of images. For what is basically a working tool and not a sales or PR medium, this is how it should be. So I have a strong resistance to using almost any kind of middleware to generate, format or beautify the site. 2. I also think we need to keep the ability to use and even deduce deep links. I know that if we had a brrgf WG, its charter would be at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/brrgf-charter.html That is a very valuable property. (We may have to accept that deep links will be broken once by the refurbishment.) 3. The material we have on the site is almost all there because it was found useful. So there is little to remove; the main issue IMHO is structure and obvious click paths. 4. Of course, ideas for new material are always good, as long as they come with an author :-) And the refurbished site must make it easy to add new material at a logical place. 5. I'm very torn in my mind between a revolutionary model, where we decide in common between the community and the secretariat on a major refurbishment of the structure and do it over a weekend, or an evolutionary model where we make a plan for the new structure and bring it in step by step over a few months. 6.Important point not mentioned explicitly below - accessibility. We must make sure that we meet the applicable requirements for accessibility by people with disabilities. (We should ask if there are any particular problems today.) I wonder if the next stage shouldn't be a current site map (presumably some sort of crawler can create that) and a proposed new site map, so that we can compare the click paths. Brian Barbara B. Fuller wrote: > >> Envelope-to: bfuller@foretec.com >> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:55:32 -0400 >> From: Andrew Sullivan >> To: tools-team@ietf.org >> Subject: web pages (was: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 7 Sept. . .) >> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i >> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info >> X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false >> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >> X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b >> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org >> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan >> List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and >> guidance during the development of software tools to support >> various parts of IETF activities." >> List-Unsubscribe: , >> >> List-Archive: >> List-Post: >> List-Help: >> List-Subscribe: , >> >> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org >> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >> X-Scan-Signature: 249cd1efd3d5e0d09114abe826a41235 >> >> Hi all, >> >> > * IETF Website re-vamp >> > - Andrew? >> >> Sorry for submerging over the past few weeks. We've undertaken a >> minor re-organisation here, whereby I moved out from daily operations >> duties (into the fire of DNS, so it's not like the new assignment is >> relaxing :-) ). Anyway, the work leading up to that, along with the >> handover, has meant mostly that I've been looking at these things in >> approximately 10-minute increments. Needless to say, that's not the >> most efficient way to work. >> >> In any case, I have had a chance to look at the site some more, and >> to attempt a whack at my first proposal. And while I think that >> proposal is still possible, I think we need to think twice about it; >> or at least, understand what we're getting. In the mean time, I've >> attached a pathetic little sample I put together this morning. >> >> As I understand the plan, what we're doing is proposing some new >> strucutre, but then the Secretariat's paid staff will come in and >> handle both the actual implementation, and the ongoing maintenance. >> (If I'm wrong about that, stop me now and correct me -- the rest of >> this is a waste of time). >> >> If I'm right, we have a number of design goals here. They're in no >> particular order below: >> >> * improve the site usability (navigation, &c.) >> * improve the site's recommendations conformance >> * improve, or at least leave the same, the site's >> maintainability >> * allow obsolete browsers to use the site (in some degraded >> mode) >> * allow text-only browsers to work >> * keep to a minimum the technical requirements for the site. >> * make mirroring easy and low-bandwidth >> >> Here's the problem I see: the actual site files appear to have been >> organised according to whatever principle was active at the time; or >> at least, the principle isn't obvious. That means that >> implementation of any revamp is going to involve looking at, and >> probably manually editing or moving, every file. I worry about the >> liklihood of implementation under that stricture. (This sort of >> depends on the technical sophistication of the staff, and I don't >> have a feel for that.) >> >> In spite of our previous rejection of this answer, therefore, I >> wonder whether we shouldn't investigate some sort of server-side >> publication or templating system, which will allow more cut-and-paste >> type migration. It requires a much greater up front investment in >> software and set up; but it couls still generate static sites that >> will be relatively easy to mirror (hrm -- I'm assuming this; maybe >> none of the publication systems really will do that). >> >> In any case, in the meantime, attached is a little tarball that >> includes a basic outline of the approach I'd originally planned. >> This one turns out to be even simpler than my original outline, but I >> suspect it's (at least visually) enough, and still simple enough to >> cause no trouble when using lynx, &c. It validates, but it doesn't >> do anything very interesting (and most of the links are currently >> broken). If this seems totally the wrong place for a bridgehead, I >> guess it's best to move now. >> >> Again, apologies for the slow movement. >> >> A >> >> -- >> ---- >> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street >> Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada >> M2P 2A8 >> +1 416 646 3304 x4110 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-team mailing list >> Tools-team@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team > > > ------------------------------------------------ > Barbara B. Fuller > Acting Executive Director > Internet Engineering Task Force > > Natick, Massachusetts Office: > > Phone: +1-508-650-4020 > Fax: +1-508-650-4639 > > Reston, Virginia Office: > > Phone: +1-703-620-9053 > Fax: +1-703-620-9071 _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 16:34:16 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ9mK-0006xm-J9; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:34:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ9mE-0006xZ-Re for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:34:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15821 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from av9-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.186]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ9wo-0000E4-L4 for tools-team@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:45:07 -0400 Received: by av9-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 601033831D; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:34:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.102]) by av9-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E7837F08; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:34:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-224-201-50-no45.tbcn.telia.com [81.224.201.50]) by smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C108E37E44; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:33:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EQ9m3-0004UB-Cb; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:33:59 +0200 Message-ID: <434EC4B7.9050700@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:33:59 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Macintosh/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050927092007.02b645b8@furball.foretec.com> <434CB97F.3090106@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <434CB97F.3090106@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 88b11fc64c1bfdb4425294ef5374ca07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: andrew@ca.afilias.info, tools-team@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-team] Re: Fwd: web pages X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian, I have very little to add to what you're saying below - basically I agree all through. I'll let Andrew speak for himself. Some small additional comments inline, though: on 2005-10-12 09:21 Brian E Carpenter said the following: > Hi folks, > > Barbara kindly forwarded this to me as I was curious about > progress on this front. > > I'd like to make a few comments of my own. > > 1. In my mind a great virtue of the IETF web site is that it doesn't > use anything fancy - simple fonts, no splashes, no coloured backgrounds > and very litte use of images. For what is basically a working tool > and not a sales or PR medium, this is how it should be. So I have > a strong resistance to using almost any kind of middleware to generate, > format or beautify the site. > > 2. I also think we need to keep the ability to use and even > deduce deep links. I know that if we had a brrgf WG, its charter > would be at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/brrgf-charter.html > That is a very valuable property. (We may have to accept that deep > links will be broken once by the refurbishment.) Maybe not. Apache has several mechanisms which lets you re-organise a site, and still make content available through the old links. The most appropriate is probably the redirect directive, which lets you put in one file a list of the old and the new position of all the pages you've moved, which makes the server provide the content at both URLs, but with the suggestion to the browser that the content has moved and should be fetched at the new URL in the future. > 3. The material we have on the site is almost all there because > it was found useful. So there is little to remove; the main issue > IMHO is structure and obvious click paths. > > 4. Of course, ideas for new material are always good, as long as they > come with an author :-) And the refurbished site must make it > easy to add new material at a logical place. > > 5. I'm very torn in my mind between a revolutionary model, where > we decide in common between the community and the secretariat > on a major refurbishment of the structure and do it over a weekend, > or an evolutionary model where we make a plan for the new structure > and bring it in step by step over a few months. If we're just changing structure and some very basic means of making that consistent and consistently available (read server-side includes for header, menu and footer) I think that both ways will work > 6.Important point not mentioned explicitly below - accessibility. > We must make sure that we meet the applicable requirements for > accessibility by people with disabilities. (We should ask > if there are any particular problems today.) > > I wonder if the next stage shouldn't be a current site map > (presumably some sort of crawler can create that) and a proposed > new site map, so that we can compare the click paths. Sounds like a good idea once we have a proposal. Henrik > Brian > > Barbara B. Fuller wrote: >> >>> Envelope-to: bfuller@foretec.com >>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:55:32 -0400 >>> From: Andrew Sullivan >>> To: tools-team@ietf.org >>> Subject: web pages (was: [Tools-team] Minutes from the 7 Sept. . .) >>> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i >>> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@libertyrms.info >>> X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false >>> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >>> X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b >>> X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org >>> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >>> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan >>> List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and >>> guidance during the development of software tools to support >>> various parts of IETF activities." >>> List-Unsubscribe: , >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> List-Post: >>> List-Help: >>> List-Subscribe: , >>> >>> Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org >>> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) >>> X-Scan-Signature: 249cd1efd3d5e0d09114abe826a41235 >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> > * IETF Website re-vamp >>> > - Andrew? >>> >>> Sorry for submerging over the past few weeks. We've undertaken a >>> minor re-organisation here, whereby I moved out from daily operations >>> duties (into the fire of DNS, so it's not like the new assignment is >>> relaxing :-) ). Anyway, the work leading up to that, along with the >>> handover, has meant mostly that I've been looking at these things in >>> approximately 10-minute increments. Needless to say, that's not the >>> most efficient way to work. >>> >>> In any case, I have had a chance to look at the site some more, and >>> to attempt a whack at my first proposal. And while I think that >>> proposal is still possible, I think we need to think twice about it; >>> or at least, understand what we're getting. In the mean time, I've >>> attached a pathetic little sample I put together this morning. >>> >>> As I understand the plan, what we're doing is proposing some new >>> strucutre, but then the Secretariat's paid staff will come in and >>> handle both the actual implementation, and the ongoing maintenance. >>> (If I'm wrong about that, stop me now and correct me -- the rest of >>> this is a waste of time). >>> >>> If I'm right, we have a number of design goals here. They're in no >>> particular order below: >>> >>> * improve the site usability (navigation, &c.) >>> * improve the site's recommendations conformance >>> * improve, or at least leave the same, the site's >>> maintainability >>> * allow obsolete browsers to use the site (in some degraded >>> mode) >>> * allow text-only browsers to work >>> * keep to a minimum the technical requirements for the site. >>> * make mirroring easy and low-bandwidth >>> >>> Here's the problem I see: the actual site files appear to have been >>> organised according to whatever principle was active at the time; or >>> at least, the principle isn't obvious. That means that >>> implementation of any revamp is going to involve looking at, and >>> probably manually editing or moving, every file. I worry about the >>> liklihood of implementation under that stricture. (This sort of >>> depends on the technical sophistication of the staff, and I don't >>> have a feel for that.) >>> >>> In spite of our previous rejection of this answer, therefore, I >>> wonder whether we shouldn't investigate some sort of server-side >>> publication or templating system, which will allow more cut-and-paste >>> type migration. It requires a much greater up front investment in >>> software and set up; but it couls still generate static sites that >>> will be relatively easy to mirror (hrm -- I'm assuming this; maybe >>> none of the publication systems really will do that). >>> >>> In any case, in the meantime, attached is a little tarball that >>> includes a basic outline of the approach I'd originally planned. >>> This one turns out to be even simpler than my original outline, but I >>> suspect it's (at least visually) enough, and still simple enough to >>> cause no trouble when using lynx, &c. It validates, but it doesn't >>> do anything very interesting (and most of the links are currently >>> broken). If this seems totally the wrong place for a bridgehead, I >>> guess it's best to move now. >>> >>> Again, apologies for the slow movement. >>> >>> A >>> >>> -- >>> ---- >>> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street >>> Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada >>> M2P 2A8 >>> +1 416 646 3304 x4110 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tools-team mailing list >>> Tools-team@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------ >> Barbara B. Fuller >> Acting Executive Director >> Internet Engineering Task Force >> >> Natick, Massachusetts Office: >> >> Phone: +1-508-650-4020 >> Fax: +1-508-650-4639 >> >> Reston, Virginia Office: >> >> Phone: +1-703-620-9053 >> Fax: +1-703-620-9071 > > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-team mailing list > Tools-team@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team > _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 09:25:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESDwP-0001v0-KG; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:25:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESDwO-0001up-8l for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:25:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16198 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from av9-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.179]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESE87-0003Ng-Gh for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:37:20 -0400 Received: by av9-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 87C8C37F52; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:25:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.92]) by av9-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7063437F4E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:25:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-224-201-50-no45.tbcn.telia.com [81.224.201.50]) by smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6212937E47 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:25:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1ESDwD-0004Bn-A6 for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:25:01 +0200 Message-ID: <4356492D.7080505@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:25:01 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Macintosh/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Agenda for the 19 October Teleconference X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Here is the proposed agenda for today's meeting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Agenda bashing 2. Comments on the minutes from previous meeting 3. Miscellaneous: * IPv6 access to both tools servers imminent * Mailing list archive / issue tracker wishes * WG page prototype v0.60 release, and what's next 4. Status review * Event scraping and generation, event xml schema, dashboard - Henrik * Event notification prototype - Jeroen * Draft info draft - Alex * Scheduling tool - Donald * IETF Website re-vamp - Andrew 5. Any other business 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 16 Nov, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 12:53:27 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESHBv-000852-1z; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:53:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESHBt-00084l-3f for tools-team@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:53:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28270 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from av9-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.185]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESHNd-0000zO-Si for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:05:35 -0400 Received: by av9-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 0628137FB9; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.102]) by av9-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E086E37F0C for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-224-201-50-no45.tbcn.telia.com [81.224.201.50]) by smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA04737E42 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1ESHBh-0005vB-HU for tools-team@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:13 +0200 Message-ID: <435679F9.50905@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:53:13 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Macintosh/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-team] Minutes from he 19 October Teleconference X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Here are the minutes from today's meeting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 0. Present: Alex, Andrew, Bill, Jeroen, Henrik 1. Agenda bashing Nothing 2. Comments on the minutes from previous meeting None 3. Miscellaneous: * IPv6 access to both tools servers imminent With the help from Jeroen, there's now an IPv6 connection in place for one of the tools servers, and another should be in place for the other server within a week or so. Setup of firewall rules, DNS entries and some other configuration is still to be done, but an announcement should come before Vancouver. * Mailing list archive / issue tracker wishes There's been some discussion around this on the tools-discuss list, and Henrik has also had some additional comments off-list. Will look for someone who can take this on. Bill: Interesting idea - nothing quite like it out there to continue from, modify. Curious to see how it will look and work out. * WG page prototype v0.60 release. Announcement sent to tools-discuss and to wgchairs lists today. 4. Status review * Event notification prototype - Jeroen There's now a mechanism where we can connect input messages with various output streams. Account creation and email verification is also in place. There's the start of a prototype available at http://www1.tools.ietf.org/home, with some documentation of the tool available at http://www1.tools.ietf.org/home/thome . The plan is to have a beta in place in time for Vancouver. Have a look and comment! * Draft info draft - Alex Still in limbo - hoped to start work again this weekend, so might be able to do an update before the cutoff on the 24th. * Scheduling tool - Donald No Donald today * IETF Website re-vamp - Andrew We have agreement on the direction we want to go, so will put together some sample pages before Vancouver, do the framework and ask for comments. Will mainly work on the taxonomy, which will be aligned with the menu structure. * Event scraping and generation, event xml schema, dashboard - Henrik Have event parsing in place for the i-d-announce@ietf.org and the RFC announcements on ietf@ietf.org, which produces xml output embedded as Atom entries. The Atom entries validate using the Atom and RSS feed validator at http://feedvalidator.org/ . Will add parsing of a few more messages types (Last Call announcements and document approvals) and then pull down the archives and generate event entries for the last 2 years or so. That will provide the base input for the dashboard prototype. Bill: How does this fit with the basic idea of Atom of providing syndication? Henrik: Atom has two levels of syndicatable entities - Feed and Entry. A feed may contain multiple entries. So the entries produced from the mail messages can be assembled into feeds, with an appropriate number of entries in a feed, for a pre- defined area like a WG, or for a custom feed defined in and generated from Jeroen's tool. 5. Any other business Sent a priority list for tools work NeuStar should start on, from a tools team perspective, to Brian, Ray and the IESG. The IESG will discuss and prioritize from their viewpoints, based on this and other input. Bill's dog is not worse, but also not better - jaw still won't open much. Will start weaning him off the medicine, and see if there will be regression, or whether he'll stay the same. 6. Next meeting: Teleconference Wednesday 16 Nov, 17:00 GMT (same local time as today). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Connection details: To join the call, dial +1-734-615-7474 and enter PIN 0151989. One can also join the call by dialling: sip:session_0151989@edial.internet2.edu on a SIP-enabled voice communications client. If the SIP client cannot dial URLs, you can have the conference system call you if you have the sip URL for your phone. Go to https://edial.internet2.edu/call/0151989 and type in the URL to your phone, and follow the directions. _______________________________________________ Tools-team mailing list Tools-team@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team From tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 23 14:14:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETkMs-0003nb-LD; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:14:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETkMq-0003nM-Hr; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:14:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18384; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ETkZ4-0001wQ-Ku; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:27:28 -0400 Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j9NIEEaF086823; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Received: (from rousskov@localhost) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id j9NIEENe086822; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rousskov) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:14:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Alex Rousskov To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-ID: <20051023121224.U86809@measurement-factory.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY=----------YN836dmhAVA7SjyZyjwNAT Content-ID: <20051023121224.P86809@measurement-factory.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3b3673afe71d94a7551c8fbc5adb8948 Cc: IETF Tools Subject: [Tools-team] Request To Publish: draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-03 X-BeenThere: tools-team@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "The purpose of the TOOLS team is to provide IETF feedback and guidance during the development of software tools to support various parts of IETF activities." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-team-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ------------YN836dmhAVA7SjyZyjwNAT Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; FORMAT=flowed; DELSP=yes; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: <20051023121224.K86809@measurement-factory.com> Please post the attached draft-ietf-tools-draft-info-03.txt file as a Tools team Internet-Draft. 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