From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Sun Sep 3 18:58:59 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12769 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA13840; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009032250.SAA13840@www19.w3.org> From: Jim Whitehead To: WebDAV WG Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:44:10 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subject: FW: Re: WebDAV enabled applet example Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4396 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: csamson [mailto:csamson@ndirect.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 3:43 PM To: Jim Whitehead Cc: kam@intraspect.com Subject: Re: Re: WebDAV enabled applet example Thanks to Jim and Kam for the input to my query putting together a Java Applet example using WebDAV. As Jim had suggested the "\r\n" at the end of the PROPFIND command was terminating the HTTP request header. This became apparent when I tested against sharemation which returned an error indicating that the Host: command was missing. The reason that I had included the "\r\n" is that this seemed to be needed to get a response from the WebDAV servers - I was just putting it in the wrong place ! In practice, as Kam indicated, you need a blank line containing at least one space - and this needs to be followed by "\r\n". i.e. the main pieces of Java code to access a file stored on mydocsonline are : URL url=new URL("http://webfolders.mydocsonline.com/rfc2518.htm"); ......... // input and output streams InputStream from_server=socket.getInputStream(); PrintWriter to_server= new PrintWriter(new OutputStreamWriter(socket.getOutputStream())); .................... String query=""; String userpass=""; { userpass=base64EncodeString("username:password"); } catch(UnsupportedEncodingException x){ } // query=""+ ""+ ""; // to_server.println("PROPFIND " + filename + " HTTP/1.1"); to_server.println("Host:" + host); to_server.println("Connection:Keep-Alive"); to_server.println("Content-Length:"+ query.length()); to_server.println("Content-Type:text/xml"); to_server.println("Accept-Language:en-us"); to_server.println("Authorization:Basic " + userpass); to_server.println("User-Agent:" + "Microsoft Data Access Internet Publishing Provider DAV 1.1"); to_server.println("Depth:0"); to_server.println(" " + "\r\n"); this.showStatus("Characters sent:"+ query.length()+ " characters"); to_server.println(query); to_server.flush(); I've got examples of PROPFIND, LOCK and UNLOCK working with sharemation, but only PROPFIND with mydocsonline. The LOCK returns a message 412 Precondition Failed - although the same code works with sharemation - Does mydocsonline support locking ? Looking at the Web interface, there is no mention of locking. Regards, JC Samson -----Original Message----- From: Jim Whitehead To: WebDAV WG ; dav-dev@lyra.org Date: 28 August 2000 19:14 Subject: FW: Re: WebDAV enabled applet example Accidentally caught by the spam filter. - Jim -----Original Message----- From: Kam Kasravi [mailto:kam@intraspect.com] Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 6:29 PM To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: [Moderator Action] Re: WebDAV enabled applet example JC: You also need a space between the last request header and the body of the message. Also leave off the trailing space on the authorization header. Try: PROPFIND / HTTP/1.1 Connection:Keep-Alive Conent-length:XXX Content-type:text/xml Accept-language:en-us Authorization:Basic YWRtaZ46YWRtaW4= Host:webfolders.mydocsonline.com User-agent:Microsoft Data Access Internet Publishing Provider DAV 1.1 Depth:0 Kam From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Wed Sep 27 17:00:59 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA22491 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA13550; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009272050.QAA13550@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA13529 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beastie.salon.com (beastie.salon.com [208.48.211.100]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01451 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:50:39 -0400 Received: from salon.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.salon.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16520; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39D25DE9.270D5250@salon.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:51:53 -0700 From: michael soderstrom X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org CC: developers@salon.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Dependant Document and Properties Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4397 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a manner in which one can enforce a link between a document and its Properties in a WebDAV server implementation? If there is a rule that every document created or edited needed to have a user defined property how might one go about enforcing this through the separate PUT and PROPPATCH requests? Any Suggestions would be greatly appreciated Thanks Michael From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Thu Sep 28 20:45:01 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA06071 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA13545; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009290031.UAA13545@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA13521 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from services.cse.ucsc.edu (services.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.48.10]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11174 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:31:08 -0400 Received: from galileo (dhcp-63-142.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.63.142]) by services.cse.ucsc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA26417 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:31:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Whitehead" To: "WebDAV WG" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:30:31 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Subject: RE: Dependant Document and Properties Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4398 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael, > Is there a manner in which one can enforce a link between a document and > its Properties in a WebDAV server implementation? > > If there is a rule that every document created or edited needed to have > a user defined property how might one go about enforcing this through > the separate PUT and PROPPATCH requests? > > Any Suggestions would be greatly appreciated Well, in a server implementation, it would be relatively straightforward to have specific properties set on a resource when it was created, or when it was updated using PUT. In the PUT handling code, you would add a call to set some properties. Of course, this only works for computable properties -- if the user needs to enter the property, then the server cannot help. From the client side, achieving this result is a little more tricky. To achieve this result, I would take out a lock on the resource, write its contents, write the property, then unlock. If you wanted to add this property capability for a third-party client, like Word, then you're currently out of luck. If you had a lot of control over the user environment, you could create a helper application that received a message from the server when a document was written, and would then query the user for the property value. But, such a custom approach tends to reduce the value of using a standard like WebDAV. However, this is the second or third time I've heard this feature request. It makes me wonder whether it would be useful to define an HTTP response of something like "OK, properties requested" to be used by responses to PUT. The response would include a list of properties the user agent should request of the operator (assuming there is an operator). A client would then ask the user for the property values, and then submit them in a separate PROPPATCH request. No guarantees the PROPPATCH will ever occur, but at least a mechanism would exist for the server to request this information from clients. - Jim From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Thu Sep 28 20:52:00 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA06131 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA13682; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009290039.UAA13682@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA13662 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from services.cse.ucsc.edu (services.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.48.10]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11709 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:38:59 -0400 Received: from galileo (dhcp-63-142.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.63.142]) by services.cse.ucsc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA26655 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Whitehead" To: "WebDAV WG" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:38:22 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Subject: DeltaV: protocol nearing last call Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4399 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As many of you know, the IETF DeltaV working group was formed to extend HTTP/DAV with versioning and configuration management capabilities, completing the original goal of the WebDAV working group. Some call it putting the "V" back into WebDAV (of course, I don't think it ever left :-). DeltaV has been developing a protocol document, "Versioning Extensions to WebDAV", , available at: http://www.webdav.org/deltav/protocol/draft-ietf-deltav-versioning-08.htm The protocol encompasses the ability to check-in and check-out resources, view the history tree, create private workspaces, group changes into activities, and develop configurations. It introduces several new HTTP methods, including REPORT, VERSION-CONTROL, CHECKOUT, CHECKIN, UNCHECKIN, SET-TARGET, LABEL, MKWORKSPACE, MKACTIVITY, BASELINE-CONTROL, and MERGE. It also introduces several new WebDAV properties, and has an associated versioning data model. Jim Amsden, the chair of DeltaV, has stated that the DeltaV versioning protocol is going to begin a working group last call period at the end of September, thus indicating that the protocol document is stable, has resolved existing design choices, and is at a good point to receive broad community review. If you would like to examine this protocol, and provide feedback now, when it is still relatively easy to make changes, I encourage you to read the latest I-D (or working draft), and submit comments to the DeltaV mailing list. The DeltaV working group home page is: http://www.webdav.org/deltav/ The DeltaV mailing list is: ietf-dav-versioning@w3.org -- send a message with subject line of "subscribe" to ietf-dav-versioning-request@w3.org. - Jim From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Thu Sep 28 21:25:49 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id VAA06386 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA14968; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009290113.VAA14968@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA14948 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from services.cse.ucsc.edu (services.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.48.10]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13872 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:12:55 -0400 Received: from galileo (dhcp-63-142.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.63.142]) by services.cse.ucsc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA27628 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Whitehead" To: "WebDAV WG" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:12:18 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Subject: Phinished, now at Santa Cruz Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4400 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It gives me great pleasure to report that on September 6, 2000, I submitted my Ph.D. dissertation to the archivist at the Science Library of the University of California, Irvine, thus completing the last formal requirement for my Doctorate of Philosohpy in Information and Computer Science. My dissertation with entitled, "An Analysis of the Hypertext Versioning Domain" and is available at: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~ejw/papers/whitehead_diss.pdf The very next day the moving van arrived to whisk me off to my new job, as an Assistant Professor of Computer Science at the University of California, Santa Cruz, located in Santa Cruz, California, about an hour south of San Jose, in the San Francisco Bay Area. I am the first hire in a new Software Engineering group at UCSC, part of the Baskin School of Engineering. I'm excited about this job: as the University of California expands over the next decade to accommodate the demographic bulge of college age students caused by the baby boom echo, there are many prospects for growth, especially in Computer Science. The Software Engineering group is expected to grow to 5-7 faculty by 2005, and I'm thrilled to be in on the ground floor. What does this all mean for WebDAV? One of the nice qualities of this job is that it allows me to continue as the Chair of WebDAV, while also being able to perform research. Now that the dissertation is done, I'm looking forward to completing the access control protocol, finally finishing the advanced collections work, and moving RFC 2518 to Draft Standard status. I also plan to work on DASL, to complete this needed protocol, as well as continuing to contribute to DeltaV, and thus completing the original goals of WebDAV. Look for increased WebDAV WG activity in the coming days and weeks. I'm also interested in doing WebDAV-related research. What innovative clients can be built on the WebDAV infrastructure? How should groups performing Web authoring be made aware of each other's activities? What Software Engineering principles can be applied to the development and verification of application layer network protocols such as WebDAV and DeltaV? Additionally, a quick look at the future work section of my dissertation highlights a number of areas I'd like to explore in hypertext versioning and configuration management as well. There are many avenues to explore here (and yes, I am looking for good students). As a Professor I'm also teaching; my first course is a graduate level introduction to Software Engineering. If you're interested, my syllabus is on the Web: http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~ejw/courses/276/ So, I'm looking forward to working with you to finish the tasks in front of the WebDAV working group, from my new location .... in Santa Cruz. - Jim Whitehead Chair, WebDAV Working Group Assistant Professor, U.C. Santa Cruz ejw@cse.ucsc.edu From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Fri Sep 29 12:17:10 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA02123 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA15457; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009291601.MAA15457@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA15432 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conductor.synapse.net (conductor.synapse.net [199.84.54.18]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA24785 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:01:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 22971 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2000 16:00:57 -0000 Received: from ppp-44-117.ott.aei.net (HELO sri01) (216.221.44.117) by conductor.synapse.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 2000 16:00:57 -0000 From: "Sridhar" To: "'Jim Whitehead'" , "'WebDAV WG'" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:05:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c02a2f$20372bd0$37c9c8c8@ByteQuest.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Disposition-Notification-To: "Sridhar" Subject: RE: Phinished, now at Santa Cruz Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4401 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congrats Jim! -----Original Message----- From: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Jim Whitehead Sent: September 28, 2000 9:12 PM To: WebDAV WG Subject: Phinished, now at Santa Cruz It gives me great pleasure to report that on September 6, 2000, I submitted my Ph.D. dissertation to the archivist at the Science Library of the University of California, Irvine, thus completing the last formal requirement for my Doctorate of Philosohpy in Information and Computer Science. My dissertation with entitled, "An Analysis of the Hypertext Versioning Domain" and is available at: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~ejw/papers/whitehead_diss.pdf The very next day the moving van arrived to whisk me off to my new job, as an Assistant Professor of Computer Science at the University of California, Santa Cruz, located in Santa Cruz, California, about an hour south of San Jose, in the San Francisco Bay Area. I am the first hire in a new Software Engineering group at UCSC, part of the Baskin School of Engineering. I'm excited about this job: as the University of California expands over the next decade to accommodate the demographic bulge of college age students caused by the baby boom echo, there are many prospects for growth, especially in Computer Science. The Software Engineering group is expected to grow to 5-7 faculty by 2005, and I'm thrilled to be in on the ground floor. What does this all mean for WebDAV? One of the nice qualities of this job is that it allows me to continue as the Chair of WebDAV, while also being able to perform research. Now that the dissertation is done, I'm looking forward to completing the access control protocol, finally finishing the advanced collections work, and moving RFC 2518 to Draft Standard status. I also plan to work on DASL, to complete this needed protocol, as well as continuing to contribute to DeltaV, and thus completing the original goals of WebDAV. Look for increased WebDAV WG activity in the coming days and weeks. I'm also interested in doing WebDAV-related research. What innovative clients can be built on the WebDAV infrastructure? How should groups performing Web authoring be made aware of each other's activities? What Software Engineering principles can be applied to the development and verification of application layer network protocols such as WebDAV and DeltaV? Additionally, a quick look at the future work section of my dissertation highlights a number of areas I'd like to explore in hypertext versioning and configuration management as well. There are many avenues to explore here (and yes, I am looking for good students). As a Professor I'm also teaching; my first course is a graduate level introduction to Software Engineering. If you're interested, my syllabus is on the Web: http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~ejw/courses/276/ So, I'm looking forward to working with you to finish the tasks in front of the WebDAV working group, from my new location .... in Santa Cruz. - Jim Whitehead Chair, WebDAV Working Group Assistant Professor, U.C. Santa Cruz ejw@cse.ucsc.edu From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Fri Sep 29 13:00:34 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA03067 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA17081; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009291643.MAA17081@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA17057 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yosemite.rwc.gnac.net (yosemite.rwc.gnac.net [198.151.248.221]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28841 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:42:54 -0400 Received: by yosemite.rwc.gnac.net; id JAA23948; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown(192.168.5.22) by yosemite.rwc.gnac.net via smap (V5.0) id xma023912; Fri, 29 Sep 00 09:44:08 -0700 Received: from tweety.main.gnac.com (localhost.gnac.net [127.0.0.1]) by pepe.ops.rwc.gnac.net (8.11.0/8.8.7/GNAC-GW-2.1) with ESMTP id e8TGfbC01350; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aaawebdev (dhcp-122.main.gnac.com [192.168.1.122]) by tweety.main.gnac.com (8.9.3/8.7.3/GNAC-COM-1.1) with SMTP id JAA12266; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000501c02a34$ba3d4f20$7a01a8c0@aaawebdev> Reply-To: "[WEB-IDEAS] LISTMASTER" From: "[WEB-IDEAS] LISTMASTER" To: "WEB - IDEAS" Cc: "'WebDAV WG'" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:45:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: More on "Webify Word? No Way!" Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4402 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More on WebDAV: http://www.webdav.org/deltav/protocol/draft-ietf-deltav-versioning-08.htm (co-authored by Christopher Kaller of Microsoft) Look at the source code: For those of us who question why this Internet Draft html would be published Microsoft Word: WebDAV conventiently stores all resource properties in an XML document. WebDAV (and now DeltaV) is being developed to use MSIE5+ as a front end in conjunction with the Windows 2000 platform Web Folders feature acting as a remote client. JimWhitehead, Chair of the webDAV Working Group and Assistant Professor of Software Engineering at UCSC (http://www.ics.uci.edu/~ejw/papers/whitehead_diss.pdf)e xplains that the goal of the new DeltaV protocol is to take out "a lock on the resource, write its contents, write the property, then unlock". He goes on to say that if you "wanted to add this property capability for a third-party client, like Word, then you're currently out of luck". So why author the Web version of the the document linked above in Word? Again we ought to refer to the source code: Geoffrey Clemm, Jim Amsden, Christopher Kaler, Jim Whitehead Geoffrey Clemm 2 0 2000-07-07T16:26:00Z 2000-09-11T16:53:00Z 2000-09-11T16:53:00Z 61 19456 110903 World Wide Web Consortium 924 221 136196 9.3821 MS Word 2000 embeds version data into the head of the document using the MSO markup flavor of XML. Word autolocks a document that is under development so that one user, or group member is editing it at a time. When the editor is finished writing, saves the document and closes it, the version data is embedded. When the document is closed, it is unlocked and another user or group member can continue its development. Word is an effective authoring and version control application for Internet publishing. Web pages authored in Word are kind of crufty. This author hopes that WebDav will eliminate the need to rely on Word to control authoring and versioning for Web document publishing. S. Matthew Hersey, MA Ed. Technical Writer, Operations Certainty Solutions, Inc. "Certainty in an Uncertain World" From w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Fri Sep 29 16:07:39 2000 Received: from www19.w3.org (www19.w3.org [18.29.0.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA06357 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA29049; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <200009291947.PAA29049@www19.w3.org> Received: from tux.w3.org (tux.w3.org [18.29.0.27]) by www19.w3.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA29029 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.atria.com (gw.atria.com [192.88.237.2]) by tux.w3.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15883 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:31 -0400 Received: from 204.167.8.157 (tantalum.atria.com) by gw.atria.com id Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gclemm@localhost) by tantalum.atria.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id PAA00731; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200009291947.PAA00731@tantalum.atria.com> X-Authentication-Warning: tantalum.atria.com: gclemm set sender to geoffrey.clemm@rational.com using -f From: "Geoffrey M. Clemm" To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org In-reply-to: <000501c02a34$ba3d4f20$7a01a8c0@aaawebdev> (owner-web-ideas@certaintysolutions.com) References: <000501c02a34$ba3d4f20$7a01a8c0@aaawebdev> Subject: Re: More on "Webify Word? No Way!" Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4403 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: From: S. Matthew Hersey, MA Ed. More on WebDAV: http://www.webdav.org/deltav/protocol/draft-ietf-deltav-versioning-08.htm (co-authored by Christopher Kaller of Microsoft) Just for the record, this is a URL of a working document. The official reference URL for this internet draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-deltav-versioning-08.txt This is a plain text document, as required by the IETF. The HTML and Word versions of this document are made available for the convenience of readers that prefer those alternative formats. Look at the source code: The design team decided to use Microsoft Word primarily because it is the most commonly available authoring client that supports WebDAV, which is the mechanism which the DeltaV group uses to do collaborative authoring. For those of us who question why this Internet Draft html would be published Microsoft Word: Just for interest's sake, what alternative would you suggest? WebDAV conventiently stores all resource properties in an XML document. WebDAV actually says nothing about how resource properties are stored. It does say that operations that manipulate resource properties are marshalled via XML, but that is independent of how they are stored. WebDAV (and now DeltaV) is being developed to use MSIE5+ as a front end in conjunction with the Windows 2000 platform Web Folders feature acting as a remote client. WebDAV and DeltaV are not being developed to use MSIE5+, but rather MSIE5+ is one of the many servers that have chosen to support the WebDAV protocol. JimWhitehead, Chair of the webDAV Working Group and Assistant Professor of Software Engineering at UCSC (http://www.ics.uci.edu/~ejw/papers/whitehead_diss.pdf) explains that the goal of the new DeltaV protocol is to take out "a lock on the resource, write its contents, write the property, then unlock". He goes on to say that if you "wanted to add this property capability for a third-party client, like Word, then you're currently out of luck". Note that lock/modify/unlock (actually, should be lock/read/modify/unlock) is functionality provided by WebDAV as defined by RFC-2518, and is not modified in any way by the DeltaV versioning extensions. The comment about "being out of luck" is in reference to "being out of luck unless you have something like WebDAV". So why author the Web version of the the document linked above in Word? Because Word in office-2000 does talk WebDAV. Again we ought to refer to the source code: Geoffrey Clemm, Jim Amsden, Christopher Kaler, Jim Whitehead Geoffrey Clemm 2 0 2000-07-07T16:26:00Z 2000-09-11T16:53:00Z 2000-09-11T16:53:00Z 61 19456 110903 World Wide Web Consortium 924 221 136196 9.3821 MS Word 2000 embeds version data into the head of the document using the MSO markup flavor of XML. Note that WebDAV has been explicitly designed to support documents in an arbitrary format (not just documents in XML), so it cannot and does not assume that this information can be embedded in the document content. Word autolocks a document that is under development so that one user, or group member is editing it at a time. When the editor is finished writing, saves the document and closes it, the version data is embedded. When the document is closed, it is unlocked and another user or group member can continue its development. And because WebDAV provides a locking protocol, Word-2000 can perform this function against an arbitrary WebDAV server (e.g. the Apache server that currently holds the DeltaV working documents). Word is an effective authoring and version control application for Internet publishing. Web pages authored in Word are kind of crufty. These two statements seem to be contradictory. Is Word an effective application for Internet publishing, or are web pages authored in Word too crufty for it to be useful? Our experience has been that although Word doesn't produce the most polished HTML documents, it does produce documents that are acceptable for collaborative development. This author hopes that WebDav will eliminate the need to rely on Word to control authoring and versioning for Web document publishing. Until other authoring tools follow Word's lead and support the WebDAV protocol, WebDAV actually increases the benefits of using Word to collaboratively author documents over the Web. Cheers, Geoff