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 ------=_NextPart_A50_234A_E490F1C2.04E276DA-- Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9OAZKI7072267 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h9OAZKFN072266 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:35:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail1.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9OAZJI7072261 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from murata@hokkaido.email.ne.jp) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (j102014.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [61.213.102.14]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13C9AFE7; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:35:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:32:07 +0900 From: MURATA Makoto To: Ben Kovitz Subject: Re: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type Cc: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <1066168364.3f8c702ca3d2a@webmail.nethere.net> References: <1066164655.3f8c61af68aa6@webmail.nethere.net> <1066168364.3f8c702ca3d2a@webmail.nethere.net> Message-Id: <20031024192912.9344.MURATA@hokkaido.email.ne.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.06.02 Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:52:44 -0700 Ben Kovitz wrote: > With application/xml, UTF-8 is already the default. So, since > SBML is defined to use UTF-8, everything fits together nicely if > we just disallow the charset parameter. I think that this is a good reason to disallow the charset parameter. Please mention this reason in the next I-D. Cheers, -- MURATA Makoto Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ELqhI7066917 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h9ELqgqu066916 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:52:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-1.nethere.net (mail-1.nethere.net [66.63.128.70]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9ELqgI7066911 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkovitz@caltech.edu) Received: (qmail 99132 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2003 21:52:44 -0000 Received: from webmail-1.nethere.net (localhost [66.63.128.78]) by mail-1.nethere.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 21:52:44 -0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu (dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu [131.215.42.193]) by webmail.nethere.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:52:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1066168364.3f8c702ca3d2a@webmail.nethere.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:52:44 -0700 From: Ben Kovitz To: Ben Kovitz Cc: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type References: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> <18718895059.20031009210457@w3.org> <1066164655.3f8c61af68aa6@webmail.nethere.net> In-Reply-To: <1066164655.3f8c61af68aa6@webmail.nethere.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 131.215.42.193 Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Off-list, Ben Morrow pointed out that I had misread RFC 3023: when I mentioned us-ascii as the default encoding, I was reading the section on text/xml, not application/xml. With application/xml, UTF-8 is already the default. So, since SBML is defined to use UTF-8, everything fits together nicely if we just disallow the charset parameter. I will update the Internet-Draft so it refers to section 3.2 (ahem, not 3.1) of RFC 3023 and uses the text that Chris Lilley suggested. That will be draft-sbml-media-type-02.txt, hopefully on the IETF server tomorrow. Ben Kovitz Caltech bkovitz at caltech.edu http://sbml.org Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ELaoI7066413 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:36:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h9ELao7L066412 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:36:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.dev.antarcti.ca (gt.antarcti.ca [209.17.183.233]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ELanI7066405 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tbray@textuality.com) Received: from textuality.com (dev1.dev.antarcti.ca [10.1.1.8]) by mail.dev.antarcti.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A79710377; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F8C6C6F.9000506@textuality.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:36:47 -0700 From: Tim Bray User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4.1) Gecko/20031008 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Kovitz Cc: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type References: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> <18718895059.20031009210457@w3.org> <1066164655.3f8c61af68aa6@webmail.nethere.net> In-Reply-To: <1066164655.3f8c61af68aa6@webmail.nethere.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Ben Kovitz wrote: > Any thoughts? Restricting sbml+xml to a UTF-8 encoding would > certainly be simple, imposing no new requirements on > SBML-consuming tools. But would this go against the grain of > the relevant RFCs and future evolvability? I think this would be just fine for a start. If it turns out there's demands for other formats, you could wire that in later, but at the moment this seems like a sensibly minimalist approach. -- Cheers, Tim Bray (http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ELHII7065504 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h9ELHILf065503 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-1.nethere.net (mail-1.nethere.net [66.63.128.70]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9ELHGI7065498 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkovitz@caltech.edu) Received: (qmail 59363 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2003 21:17:18 -0000 Received: from webmail-1.nethere.net (localhost [66.63.128.78]) by mail-1.nethere.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 21:17:18 -0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu (dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu [131.215.42.193]) by webmail.nethere.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:17:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1066166238.3f8c67de6b6eb@webmail.nethere.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:17:18 -0700 From: Ben Kovitz To: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type References: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> <1065813828.30956.3.camel@felicia> In-Reply-To: <1065813828.30956.3.camel@felicia> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 131.215.42.193 Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Regarding: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sbml-media-type-00.txt Linus Walleij wrote: > I am a little concerned about the long list of URI:s for > applications in the end, with URI:s like: > > http://gnida.cs.vt.edu/~cellcyclepse/ > http://nsr.bioeng.washington.edu/DOC/JSIMDOC/JSim1.5_New_Features > > Will these URI:s still be valid in 20+ years, when SBML is > still in use, or will they just be a huge bunch of invalid old > junk that noone can use by then? It would be better if you put > up a webresource pointer at the same place as the > specification, so that it may be updated as useful. D'ohhh! I'd just gone and made sure we had a stable domain name and set up all the URLs within that domain to be stable for a very long time, and at the last minute tossed in all these presumably non-persistent URLs to all the current SBML projects. Thanks for catching this! I've updated the Internet-Draft to list the projects and refer to just http://sbml.org. I've submitted draft-sbml-media-type-01.txt but I don't think it's appeared on the IETF server yet. Thanks! Ben Kovitz Caltech bkovitz at caltech.edu http://sbml.org Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9EKosI7064535 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h9EKos5E064534 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-3.nethere.net (mail-3.nethere.net [66.63.128.72]) by above.proper.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with SMTP id h9EKorI7064529 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkovitz@caltech.edu) Received: (qmail 6458 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2003 20:50:55 -0000 Received: from webmail-1.nethere.net (localhost [66.63.128.78]) by mail-3.nethere.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 20:50:55 -0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu (dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu [131.215.42.193]) by webmail.nethere.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1066164655.3f8c61af68aa6@webmail.nethere.net> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:50:55 -0700 From: Ben Kovitz To: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type References: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> <18718895059.20031009210457@w3.org> In-Reply-To: <18718895059.20031009210457@w3.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 131.215.42.193 Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Regarding: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sbml-media-type-00.txt Chris Lilley wrote: > Do the existing SBML-consuming tools honor the charset > parameter when SBML is sent over HTTP or email? And where the > charset parameter disagrees with the encoding in the XMl > encoding declaration, do these tools rewrite the XML when > saving it to disk? > > Note that, although charset is optional in this registration, > RFC 3023 still imposes requirements on software in the > *absence* of a charset. > > If not, I suggest removing this optional parameter as follows: > > There is no charset parameter. Character handling has > identical semantics to the case where the charset parameter > of the "application/xml" media type is omitted, as > described in [RFC3023]. My understanding is that most current SBML-consuming tools do not honor the charset parameter, but that's only because most don't get involved with MIME. Thanks for pointing out the RFC 3023 statements regarding the absence of a parameter! Indeed us-ascii seems unnecessarily limiting. Andrew Finney on sbml-discuss at caltech.edu responded: The SBML Level 2 document states in section 4.1: "The character encoding for SBML is UTF-8. SBML documents should include the encoding attribute with the value UTF-8 in the XML prologue." SBML Level 1 doesn't have this text as far as I remember. I don't know if that helps. My vote would be to specify that SBML is always encoded in UTF-8 and follow through with that in the MIME registration. Would that make SBML unusual for an XML format? Do MIME processors need the flexibility to transform UTF-8 into us-ASCII? i.e. what are the concrete implications? if we do this are we imposing an unrealistic restriction on transmission that would probably not happen in practice? Can we make the char set non-optional and restricted to UFT-8? If yes this would then avoid the issue with rewriting to disk. If we restrict the car set does that make interpreting the incoming stream because the its in only char set? Any thoughts? Restricting sbml+xml to a UTF-8 encoding would certainly be simple, imposing no new requirements on SBML-consuming tools. But would this go against the grain of the relevant RFCs and future evolvability? Ben Kovitz Caltech bkovitz at caltech.edu http://sbml.org Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h99J5MKP081280 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h99J5LKs081279 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:05:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from homer.w3.org (homer.w3.org [18.29.0.30]) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h99J59KP081271 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@w3.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084EA3DA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:04:57 +0200 From: Chris Lilley X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Personal Reply-To: Chris Lilley Organization: W3C X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <18718895059.20031009210457@w3.org> To: Ben Kovitz Cc: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Re: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type In-Reply-To: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> References: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, 9:42:04 PM, Ben wrote: BK> Hi, I've just submitted an Internet Draft for the sbml+xml media BK> type. I and the other folks responsible for SBML (the Systems BK> Biology Markup Langage) have incorporated the comments and BK> suggestions from the folks on this list, especially getting a BK> definite, persistent, named organization in place to serve as BK> the change owner. BK> The draft is here: BK> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sbml-media-type-00.txt BK> Your comments are solicited. Do the existing SBML-consuming tools honor the charset parameter when SBML is sent over HTTP or email? And where the charset parameter disagrees with the encoding in the XMl encoding declaration, do these tools rewrite the XML when saving it to disk? Note that, although charset is optional in this registration, RFC 3023 still imposes requirements on software in the *absence* of a charset. If not, I suggest removing this optional parameter as follows: There is no charset parameter. Character handling has identical semantics to the case where the charset parameter of the "application/xml" media type is omitted, as described in [RFC3023]. -- Chris mailto:chris@w3.org Received: from above.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h98Jg3KP065583 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h98Jg3gn065582 for ietf-xml-mime-bks; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail-3.nethere.net (mail-3.nethere.net [66.63.128.72]) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with SMTP id h98Jg2KP065577 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkovitz@caltech.edu) Received: (qmail 48786 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 19:42:04 -0000 Received: from webmail-1.nethere.net (localhost [66.63.128.78]) by mail-3.nethere.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 19:42:04 -0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu (dhcp-193.cds.caltech.edu [131.215.42.193]) by webmail.nethere.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1065642124.3f84688c56dd2@webmail.nethere.net> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:04 -0700 From: Ben Kovitz To: ietf-types@iana.org, ietf-xml-mime@imc.org Subject: Internet draft for sbml+xml media type MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 131.215.42.193 Sender: owner-ietf-xml-mime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, I've just submitted an Internet Draft for the sbml+xml media type. I and the other folks responsible for SBML (the Systems Biology Markup Langage) have incorporated the comments and suggestions from the folks on this list, especially getting a definite, persistent, named organization in place to serve as the change owner. The draft is here: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sbml-media-type-00.txt Your comments are solicited. Thanks! Ben Kovitz bkovitz at caltech.edu Control and Dynamical Systems Dept. California Institute of Technology http://sbml.org Received: from unknown ([12.163.25.68]) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with SMTP id h959j2KQ026374 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:45:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toner01low063@msn.com) From: To: ietf-xml-mime-bks@above.proper.com Subject: Toner Cartridges Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:44:54 Message-Id: <316.172637.815952@unknown> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Laser Printer Copier and Fax supplies.

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Price
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Price
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Price
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Item

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Price
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Item

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Price
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Price
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Item

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Price
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