From dworley@avaya.com Wed Feb 2 06:41:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6E63A6D26 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 06:41:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wvxw9AqmUEua for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 06:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B6C3A6D1F for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 06:41:14 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAEP8SE2HCzI1/2dsb2JhbAClGXOjIgKYboVTBIR4hVuEUg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,413,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="230522160" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Feb 2011 09:44:33 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,413,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="592635250" Received: from unknown (HELO DC-US1HCEX3.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.22]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Feb 2011 09:44:32 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX3.global.avaya.com ([135.11.52.22]) with mapi; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 09:44:32 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 09:44:32 -0500 Thread-Topic: Decommissioning the old xml2rfc mailing list Thread-Index: AQHLwueznc6anOQVgU2jAHJHvRoAFg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [xml2rfc] Decommissioning the old xml2rfc mailing list X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:41:16 -0000 Hello, everyone! I've had a devil of a time getting on this mailing list. It seems that mos= t pointers still go to the old xml2rfc mailing list at xml.resource.org. A= nd I've spent the last two months trying to get subscribed to that list -- = nobody answers the subscription requests. Since Google easily turns up the information page at http://xml.resource.or= g/ and that points one to the mailing list at http://lists.xml.resource.org= /mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc, what is being done to straighten out the situati= on? Dale From dworley@avaya.com Wed Feb 2 14:18:44 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B303A6C6D for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:18:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HnCtLBBLsB-8 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4AC3A6C62 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:18:43 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAJtnSU3GmAcF/2dsb2JhbAClIHOjFAKYfYVTBIR4ii0 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,416,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="262877527" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Feb 2011 17:22:03 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,416,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="577709961" Received: from dc-us1hcex1.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.20]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Feb 2011 17:22:03 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com ([2002:870b:3414::870b:3414]) with mapi; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 17:22:02 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 17:18:44 -0500 Thread-Topic: Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AQHLwyedlnzr6xIKx0KtBxefsow0rg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:18:44 -0000 I've been using the online XML2RFC converter at http://xml.resource.org/. I've recently discovered that its checking of XML syntax is not rigid. In = particular, I can get it to accept documents that contain start tags with "= <" in the attribute value. Viz.:
Element"> According to the XML specification, "<" is not allowed and must be encoded = as "<". (">" is allowed.) Has anyone run into this problem? And how can I get it fixed? Dale From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed Feb 2 14:47:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F5B3A6C6E for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:47:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.83 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.83 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8sOtG2fjhvMx for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:47:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CAA273A6864 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Feb 2011 22:50:51 -0000 Received: from p508FDB5B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.219.91] by mail.gmx.net (mp013) with SMTP; 02 Feb 2011 23:50:51 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+3+mBKZna3UlB/J/0llCOQF071ZbVhZNyx01/x/R CJE1eCBX5cErOm Message-ID: <4D49DFC1.6040207@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 23:50:41 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:47:34 -0000 On 02.02.2011 23:18, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: > I've been using the online XML2RFC converter at http://xml.resource.org/. > > I've recently discovered that its checking of XML syntax is not rigid. In particular, I can get it to accept documents that contain start tags with "<" in the attribute value. Viz.: > >
> > According to the XML specification, "<" is not allowed and must be encoded as"<". (">" is allowed.) > > Has anyone run into this problem? And how can I get it fixed? > ... xml2rfc.tcl uses an in-lined unmaintained XML parser. That's a known problem. Options: - live with it - fix it - replace it with something else All but the first option will require a lot of work. Best regards, Julian From tony@att.com Wed Feb 2 15:06:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13EC93A6C8D for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:06:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cvo2ySxnDetV for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail146.messagelabs.com (mail146.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15643A6864 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:06:17 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-146.messagelabs.com!1296688177!28013702!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 30416 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2011 23:09:37 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-2.tower-146.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 2 Feb 2011 23:09:37 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p12N9xAW031472 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:10:00 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p12N9tq0031421 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:09:55 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p12N9WDo012105 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:09:32 -0500 Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p12N9TeD012059 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:09:29 -0500 Received: from [135.70.34.77] (vpn-135-70-34-77.vpn.west.att.com[135.70.34.77]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110202230927gw100e4l3pe> (Authid: tony); Wed, 2 Feb 2011 23:09:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.34.77] Message-ID: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:09:26 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 23:06:19 -0000 Your wish is our command! :-) I hadn't announced it here yet, but was planning on doing soon shortly, so this seems like a good time. Please try out http://xml.resource.org/experimental.html (There's a link to it from the page you've been using.) Major new xml2rfc features include: * Support for the new consensus= attribute. * Generate proper boilerplate for RFC generation (RFC 5741). * Support for new processing instruction. The default is "o*+-", but can be set to any list of characters. Major new web features include: * New options in web form to generate ePub, Postscript, PDF and RTF. * New option in web form to show trace and warning messages. * New option in web form to do strict DTD checking. * New option to generate HTML using Julian Reschke's XSLT. For this particular request, note the "strict DTD checking" option. Passing in an attribute with a "<" in it will generate this message: Unable to Validate File [Fatal Error] INPUT:12:17: The value of attribute "abbrev" associated with an element type "title" must not contain the '<' character. Feedback would be appreciated before it goes live on the regular site. One placed I'd definitely appreciate feedback on would be better terminology in picking between the type of output (text with fixed length pages, html, nroff, etc) and the format of that output (ASCII, PDF, ePub, RTF and Postscript). Right now I'm calling these "Output mode" and "Output format". Any alternatives that people can think of? Tony Hansen tony@att.com PS. Thanks also go to Julian Reschke and Henrik for their help in getting this release out. On 2/2/2011 5:18 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: > I've been using the online XML2RFC converter at http://xml.resource.org/. > > I've recently discovered that its checking of XML syntax is not rigid. In particular, I can get it to accept documents that contain start tags with "<" in the attribute value. Viz.: > >
> > According to the XML specification, "<" is not allowed and must be encoded as"<". (">" is allowed.) > > Has anyone run into this problem? And how can I get it fixed? > > Dale From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Wed Feb 2 16:16:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A628A3A63C9 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:16:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.347, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FJJN8WC5LJVH for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com (mail-vx0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583673A6359 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by vxi40 with SMTP id 40so139126vxi.31 for ; Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:20:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent :mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=zjuiUDwZWPWNQAAuW0RftG8TdtkAlNnQ6m8evUlksO0=; b=EZQuY0hPYD+l+tmw2Dyp9dhTpC40lkwzyLJ06Oumusq8EmGz8Ej6KPnqt6BY1QH6by 0pYfwfvzbnK86aTopRUi6KFb9uF/pJwO7VAnpYuoupC1wnVY77BC/UKW6x+pDi8YgOOD Uq1KpFc6iD9XmT7jfPr30v6KM8BTDQV8Hna5A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=MfMtpfWNwiYWbTnGRgSsOc4jvifH4fvz6FbBgiP5L3kreFUtNPLO1H6Mp0rbozj59a fqri3B9EBKBAps8EKNE80+hjDb1K7t3QdWc6GddkSoFcDBoAMJcQOtMii2KN4M1aTtjM h2UKt1GwzZMHZICpMMGF5y4PZbz3Up2BQaeZo= Received: by 10.220.187.194 with SMTP id cx2mr2637839vcb.33.1296692400749; Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.216.38.124] (stf-brian.sfac.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c8sm123783vcc.9.2011.02.02.16.19.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 13:20:07 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 00:16:42 -0000 On 2011-02-03 12:09, Tony Hansen wrote: > Your wish is our command! :-) > > I hadn't announced it here yet, but was planning on doing soon shortly, > so this seems like a good time. > > Please try out > > http://xml.resource.org/experimental.html Cool, Tony. Thanks. Now a plea for help. With strict checking I get [Error] INPUT:140:11: The content of element type "section" must match "((t|figure|texttable|iref)*,section*)". [Error] INPUT:148:37: Attribute value "6to4" of type ID must be an NCName when namespaces are enabled. on a certain input file. But these are pretty hard to understand, and without strict checking the document is accepted and all is well. It turns out that the first error is caused by a naked inside a section. Is one supposed to nest, like blahblah1blah2 ? The second error is caused by
and I don't really see why anchors can't start with a digit. Brian From tony@att.com Wed Feb 2 18:56:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393C63A6778 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:56:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T+bbiN93+CRF for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:56:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail161.messagelabs.com (mail161.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29DB93A67AC for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:56:25 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-161.messagelabs.com!1296701985!47924340!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 10242 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2011 02:59:46 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-3.tower-161.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Feb 2011 02:59:46 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p133087i014694 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 22:00:08 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13303fg014643 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 22:00:03 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p132xekh012820 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:59:40 -0500 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p132xYTo012700 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:59:34 -0500 Received: from [135.70.34.77] (vpn-135-70-34-77.vpn.west.att.com[135.70.34.77]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110203025932gw100e4l4ae> (Authid: tony); Thu, 3 Feb 2011 02:59:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.34.77] Message-ID: <4D4A1A13.3000108@att.com> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:59:31 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 02:56:27 -0000 On 2/2/2011 7:20 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Cool, Tony. Thanks. Now a plea for help. With strict checking I get > > [Error] INPUT:140:11: The content of element type "section" must match "((t|figure|texttable|iref)*,section*)". > [Error] INPUT:148:37: Attribute value "6to4" of type ID must be an NCName when namespaces are enabled. > > on a certain input file. But these are pretty hard to understand, and without > strict checking the document is accepted and all is well. > > It turns out that the first error is caused by a naked > inside a section. Is one supposed to nest, like > > blahblah1blah2 ? The DTD says: This says that the only things allowed at the "top" level within a section are ,
, and . The only place is allowed is inside a : (And the only thing allowed inside a in turn is a .) So yes, you're supposed to list them like you showed blahblah1blah2 However, your "blah" can be empty. > The second error is caused by > >
> > and I don't really see why anchors can't start with a digit. The DTD has this for the attributes of
: So anchor is an ID. According to http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/ ID is derived from NCName, which is defined in http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xml-names-19990114/#NT-NCName as: [4] NCName ::= (Letter | '_') (NCNameChar)* /* An XML Name, minus the ":" */ [5] NCNameChar ::= Letter | Digit | '.' | '-' | '_' | CombiningChar | Extender Hope this helps clarify why the strict validator is complaining. Tony Hansen From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu Feb 3 01:02:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9BA3A6895 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 01:02:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.823 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.823 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.224, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 38xwGawJvYtI for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 01:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E9FC83A6879 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 01:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2011 09:05:28 -0000 Received: from p508FA4BB.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.164.187] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2011 10:05:28 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18/b1V9l9s/k7+D5hzVQgbwLbsHBUQw03Y1TtqmIw nnEgLH5bhP9G6h Message-ID: <4D4A6FD3.3010300@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 10:05:23 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> <4D4A1A13.3000108@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4A1A13.3000108@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:02:11 -0000 On 03.02.2011 03:59, Tony Hansen wrote: > ... Thanks, Tony. One nit: what's relevant is the definition of ID from the XML spec (not XML Schema), but that of course doesn't change the actually allowed syntax: "Values of type ID MUST match the Name production. A name MUST NOT appear more than once in an XML document as a value of this type; i.e., ID values MUST uniquely identify the elements which bear them." -- Best regards, Julian From johnl@iecc.com Wed Feb 2 15:02:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC383A6C8B for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:02:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.501, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4hevlTOu3e51 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:02:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [64.57.183.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E47B3A6864 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:02:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29492 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2011 23:05:20 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=7333.4d49e330.k1102; i=johnl@submit.iecc.com; bh=jbwe8AgDUy1xGq9Soq+b9FLX++UoTSRWHWkDlfKnA4k=; b=kGFu6UjgtVfw1pA8ir7tTwWL0yutcby8+H/W/jhBUI8Y+9N+2G1qpEaZV8uORr+4ACMfHeIugvdXwKTEm9+xX+t/JQnBPPinD0fCBQ+hw6MFiYl8L/uLfsI0d4rc4n3Wa0UROhOvagb4L/dBrDS4xRDcEHx5fDiow2rX8ptMWgI= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd johnl@64.57.183.62) with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 2 Feb 2011 23:04:58 -0000 Date: 2 Feb 2011 18:05:20 -0500 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Julian Reschke" In-Reply-To: <4D49DFC1.6040207@gmx.de> References: <4D49DFC1.6040207@gmx.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 08:05:48 -0800 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 23:02:02 -0000 > xml2rfc.tcl uses an in-lined unmaintained XML parser. That's a known problem. > > Options: > > - live with it > - fix it > - replace it with something else - note that there's an RFP going out to rewrite the whole thing, which will presumably use a real XML parser Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From swb@employees.org Thu Feb 3 08:13:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEF83A69FB for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:13:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o7qoiLXJz3EP for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [IPv6:2001:1868:205::18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7F03A6A01 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E151FDA9C; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:16:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=employees.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= selector1; bh=5bFlnjmFF2lIcI9M2VWcdpMfvwg=; b=c90n0AtLSZOoBQ5Gp/ PIGiRBo9qyPYRG8qsKMmvecwD8AAGj6RMGydo4IjdO9rDMYVUTIE2tUa9jgR3hmS fz2KP2wdSyw1pOdHud9euyXmYImbNoh3KccOTupNnJPBqDhLqaM9FkJ3D1v3MQaa pUio6pAQG4iM03OiAd+i82zfY= Received: from bxb-vpn3-15.cisco.com (198-135-0-233.cisco.com [198.135.0.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: swb) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721F3FDA6B; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:16:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D4AD4EE.6010202@employees.org> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 11:16:46 -0500 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> <4D4A1A13.3000108@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4A1A13.3000108@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:13:29 -0000 On 02/02/2011 21:59 EST, Tony Hansen wrote: > So yes, you're supposed to list them like you showed > > blahblah1blah2 and for lists within lists, blah... I want to add my thanks, 'experimental' is a great step. From swb@employees.org Thu Feb 3 08:32:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FDD3A69D8 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:32:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fJ42w1AqVJUh for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [IPv6:2001:1868:205::18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874643A69B3 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E27AFDA9C; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:35:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=employees.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= selector1; bh=0e2EwxwuN3KjhDOvh0KECbEY05o=; b=qn5NiVVypqvy87m0j2 YFuAfsNmPEJ98aHTbcA8XvSI0RI86wJ2tKn7YQZhL3mVDjBgsdh+ZX6tYYJHAjhj aNmF/iw1Ot06sKFbgdiOHwWOv6lik3lfg/etLeUdAkwROVfMpXZhcCH+y4w2VgxL CztJGpQ89kMJNQjbmswcN/opI= Received: from bxb-vpn3-15.cisco.com (198-135-0-233.cisco.com [198.135.0.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: swb) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A9CFDA6B; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:35:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 11:35:16 -0500 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:32:00 -0000 On 02/02/2011 18:09 EST, Tony Hansen wrote: > One placed I'd definitely appreciate feedback on would be better > terminology in picking between the type of output (text with fixed > length pages, html, nroff, etc) and the format of that output (ASCII, > PDF, ePub, RTF and Postscript). Right now I'm calling these "Output > mode" and "Output format". Any alternatives that people can think of? I would think I understand the difference, but I don't understand your examples so I probably don't. What does it mean if I have nroff mode and ePub format? Am I viewing the raw nroff in ePub? Isn't nroff a format, i.e. a markup language as to how to display the text? From dworley@avaya.com Thu Feb 3 09:09:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826ED3A69E6 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:09:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 59-LDpj+LWpR for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 625AC3A687D for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:09:02 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAO9wSk3GmAcF/2dsb2JhbAClLXOkfgKYaIVYBIR5ijQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,420,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="230739576" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 03 Feb 2011 12:12:23 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,420,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="578133458" Received: from dc-us1hcex1.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.20]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 03 Feb 2011 12:12:23 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com ([2002:870b:3414::870b:3414]) with mapi; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:12:23 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:10:22 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvDLk6QrcXC1HoxQMCdll5oZqAFvAAlu8JY Message-ID: References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:09:03 -0000 > From: Tony Hansen [tony@att.com] >=20 > Major new xml2rfc features include: >=20 > * Support for the new consensus=3D attribute. > * Generate proper boilerplate for RFC generation (RFC 5741). > * Support for new processing > instruction. The default is "o*+-", but can be set to any list of > characters. That's very good. But what are the "consensus" and "text-list-symbols" attributes? I must say, it's sort of comical reading 'The default is "o*+-" ...' as if it's intuitive what that means! Dale From dworley@avaya.com Thu Feb 3 09:13:20 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9963A6A15 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:13:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Im+P7ycEjLhQ for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD7C3A69EC for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:13:19 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEANpxSk3GmAcF/2dsb2JhbAClLXOkegKYaIVYBIR5ijQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,420,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="230740470" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 03 Feb 2011 12:16:41 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,420,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="578135964" Received: from dc-us1hcex1.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.20]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 03 Feb 2011 12:16:40 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com ([2002:870b:3414::870b:3414]) with mapi; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:16:40 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:12:29 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvDLk6QrcXC1HoxQMCdll5oZqAFvAAlzrd1 Message-ID: References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:13:21 -0000 http://xml.resource.org/experimental.html If I enable "strict" checking, it finds the XML syntax violation I was conc= erned about. Many thanks! However, I've run into an odd bug: Setting the file name, with HTML/ASCII/= Strict/Show warnings, I get an error screen containing two frames(!) each c= ontaining a copy of the same message: Invalid filename (unwritable) Apache/2.2.16 (Debian) Server at xml.resource.org Port 80 If I change the output destination to Window, I get the HTML output. Dale From dworley@avaya.com Thu Feb 3 09:16:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873373A6A2E for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p27PkOwHoz35 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound-tmp.us1.avaya.com (nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com [135.11.29.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE1C3A69EA for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:16:31 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAAdzSk3GmAcF/2dsb2JhbAClLXOkbQKYaYVYBIR5ijQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,420,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="57460146" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound-tmp.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 03 Feb 2011 12:19:25 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,420,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="578137170" Received: from dc-us1hcex1.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.20]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 03 Feb 2011 12:19:24 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com ([2002:870b:3414::870b:3414]) with mapi; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:19:24 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Brian E Carpenter , Tony Hansen Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:16:56 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvDOB/hHcCECDMcTFqGJfgAHSG8kgAjgi2n Message-ID: References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com>,<4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:16:32 -0000 ________________________________________ [Error] INPUT:140:11: The content of element type "section" must match "((t= |figure|texttable|iref)*,section*)". _______________________________________________ It's easier to understand than it looks: The last part is a regexp showing= what can go inside a "section" element. In this case, either a sequence o= f zero or more section elements, or a mixed sequence of zero or more t, fig= ure, texttable, and iref elements. So you look at line 140, character 11, = and see what it is. It should be a start tag for an element that can't go = in that location within its parent
. Dale From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu Feb 3 09:17:01 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3713A6A32 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.491, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUqH+ekXlfaD for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5ACC43A6A2A for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2011 17:20:20 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.134]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp071) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2011 18:20:20 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/KJlNEw+zKit/q38bXB9TiZfgI7j6E3P0/EbPBCC hH/PHTxYYWp3sb Message-ID: <4D4AE3CF.2080804@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 18:20:15 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:17:01 -0000 On 03.02.2011 18:10, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: >> From: Tony Hansen [tony@att.com] >> >> Major new xml2rfc features include: >> >> * Support for the new consensus= attribute. >> * Generate proper boilerplate for RFC generation (RFC 5741). >> * Support for new processing >> instruction. The default is "o*+-", but can be set to any list of >> characters. > > That's very good. But what are the "consensus" and > ... BR, Julian From ahagens@amsl.com Thu Feb 3 09:41:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA643A6A3F for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:41:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kjM8+b8XfyOY for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [64.170.98.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB043A6A3C for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c1a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690B8E085E; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:45:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c1a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c1a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jbc5NXM5g3aJ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.50.90] (h-68-167-52-198.mclnva23.static.covad.net [68.167.52.198]) by c1a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99BB7E06B3; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:45:05 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Alice Hagens In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:44:58 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:41:45 -0000 Julian wrote: > = AFAIK, the consensus attribute does not have any effect on the "Status = of This Memo" in an Internet-Draft. It is used by the RFC Production = Center as one of the inputs to generate the appropriate "Status of This = Memo" text in an RFC. (The options defined by RFC 5741 are shown here: = http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-style-guide/status-memos.txt.) > 'The default is "o*+-" ...' By default, a list element with style=3D"symbols" contains items = bulleted with "o" (in the text output). Nested lists contain items = bulleted with "*", then "+", then "-" (as mentioned on = http://xml.resource.org/xml2rfcFAQ.html#anchor21). New feature: you can set the list of characters using the = text-list-symbols PI. This seems useful for authors who like to use "-" = as a symbol for bulleted lists. Alice RFC Production Center On Feb 3, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: >> From: Tony Hansen [tony@att.com] >>=20 >> Major new xml2rfc features include: >>=20 >> * Support for the new consensus=3D attribute. >> * Generate proper boilerplate for RFC generation (RFC 5741). >> * Support for new processing >> instruction. The default is "o*+-", but can be set to any list of >> characters. >=20 > That's very good. But what are the "consensus" and > "text-list-symbols" attributes? I must say, it's sort of comical > reading 'The default is "o*+-" ...' as if it's intuitive what that > means! >=20 > Dale > _______________________________________________ > xml2rfc mailing list > xml2rfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc >=20 From tony@att.com Thu Feb 3 11:51:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6872A3A6A30 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 11:51:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.534 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.065, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qlUy5Y4Z81mN for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 11:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail161.messagelabs.com (mail161.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944663A6A07 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 11:51:43 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-161.messagelabs.com!1296762905!43346245!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 8892 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2011 19:55:06 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-7.tower-161.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Feb 2011 19:55:06 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13JtSgQ011833 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:55:28 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13JtMun011703 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:55:22 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13Jsx1p003940 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:54:59 -0500 Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13JstjL003844 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:54:55 -0500 Received: from [135.91.110.244] (ds135-91-110-244.dhcps.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.244]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110203195455gw100e4l76e> (Authid: tony); Thu, 3 Feb 2011 19:54:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.244] Message-ID: <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:54:55 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> In-Reply-To: <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 19:51:46 -0000 On 2/3/2011 11:35 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > On 02/02/2011 18:09 EST, Tony Hansen wrote: >> One placed I'd definitely appreciate feedback on would be better >> terminology in picking between the type of output (text with fixed >> length pages, html, nroff, etc) and the format of that output (ASCII, >> PDF, ePub, RTF and Postscript). Right now I'm calling these "Output >> mode" and "Output format". Any alternatives that people can think of? > I would think I understand the difference, but I don't understand your > examples so I probably don't. What does it mean if I have nroff mode > and ePub format? Am I viewing the raw nroff in ePub? Isn't nroff a > format, i.e. a markup language as to how to display the text? The "Output mode" is what the output looks like: the text we all know and love, html format, the nroff equivalent of the xml, text formatted without page breaks, and xml with all of the XML entities and includes processed. Today these are all generated in ASCII. These are the same Output Modes that xml.resource.org has always generated. I kept the "Output mode" heading from the current web form. The "Output format" is oriented towards the medium used to display the output. ASCII maps to what we've all used before, but now there are also options to generate PDF files, ePub files, RTF files, and Postscript files. Now that I've explained further what their use maps into, are there better terms than "Output mode" and "Output format"? How about "Output media" for the latter instead of "format"? Tony From tony@att.com Thu Feb 3 12:27:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F59B3A6ADA for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:27:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GrpGUBko6rR7 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail119.messagelabs.com (mail119.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97C33A6ACC for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:27:44 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-119.messagelabs.com!1296765067!4263974!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 17606 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2011 20:31:07 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-13.tower-119.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Feb 2011 20:31:07 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KVTqT006944 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:31:30 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KVNqv006699 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:31:24 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KV08f015095 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:31:00 -0500 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KUukq014885 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:30:56 -0500 Received: from [135.91.110.244] (ds135-91-110-244.dhcps.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.244]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110203203056gw100e4l7ge> (Authid: tony); Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:30:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.244] Message-ID: <4D4B1080.5000001@att.com> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:30:56 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:27:46 -0000 On 2/3/2011 12:12 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: > http://xml.resource.org/experimental.html > > If I enable "strict" checking, it finds the XML syntax violation I was concerned about. Many thanks! > > However, I've run into an odd bug: Setting the file name, with HTML/ASCII/Strict/Show warnings, I get an error screen containing two frames(!) each containing a copy of the same message: > > Invalid filename (unwritable) > > Apache/2.2.16 (Debian) Server at xml.resource.org Port 80 > > If I change the output destination to Window, I get the HTML output. You should get the warnings and errors in the top frame and the generated text/HTML/nroff/whatever output in the bottom frame. The error message indicates that it can't find the temp file where the warning/error messages and html output were put. Did you do a "reload" of the frames? Once the above displays the temp files, they are removed, so wouldn't be found a second time. You'd have to resubmit the input files to get the output generated again. Tony Hansen From tony@att.com Thu Feb 3 12:37:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626063A6AC7 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:37:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.541 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.541 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eVt9SPRDjpEc for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail129.messagelabs.com (mail129.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C5C3A6405 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-129.messagelabs.com!1296765663!38098007!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 31323 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2011 20:41:03 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-7.tower-129.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Feb 2011 20:41:03 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KfPn4023453 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:41:25 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KfKTT023283 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:41:20 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13KeuAc007193 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:40:56 -0500 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p13Kes3P007022 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:40:54 -0500 Received: from [135.91.110.244] (ds135-91-110-244.dhcps.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.244]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110203204053gw100e4l7ne> (Authid: tony); Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:40:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.244] Message-ID: <4D4B12D5.50708@att.com> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:40:53 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:37:42 -0000 On 2/3/2011 12:10 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: > That's very good. But what are the "consensus" and > "text-list-symbols" attributes? I must say, it's sort of comical > reading 'The default is "o*+-" ...' as if it's intuitive what that > means! I've updated the web page to have a better description and the links offered by Julian and Alice. Tony Hansen From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Thu Feb 3 22:46:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D3093A6B50 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:46:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.204 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.204 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.414, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QHBAmdJV0SlV for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:46:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA353A6B2A for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:46:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id p146nWrD018762 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:49:32 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 590b_285f_ebf8d464_302a_11e0_a354_001d096c5782; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:49:32 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:51542) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:49:31 +0900 Message-ID: <4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:48:54 +0900 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:46:23 -0000 On 2011/02/03 9:20, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > It turns out that the first error is caused by a naked > inside a section. Is one supposed to nest, like > > blahblah1blah2 ? While I think it's not worth to fiddle around with changes in allowed markup, I think getting rid of the requirement for t-list-t-list would really help a lot and would be well worth doing. For people comming from other kinds of XML/markup formats, it's quite surprising. Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From julian.reschke@gmx.de Fri Feb 4 00:18:01 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EE93A6929 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:18:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.681 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.681 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.382, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ndiqztgZdpIc for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 73CB63A6881 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Feb 2011 08:21:23 -0000 Received: from p508FDB1C.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.219.28] by mail.gmx.net (mp062) with SMTP; 04 Feb 2011 09:21:23 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19pnCcl/sBpxByiDCV2zqKaf8AtS/fXubuOElX3/H N/J3319j0R6vw9 Message-ID: <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:21:15 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> <4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 08:18:02 -0000 On 04.02.2011 07:48, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote: > On 2011/02/03 9:20, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >> It turns out that the first error is caused by a naked >> inside a section. Is one supposed to nest, like >> >> blahblah1blah2 ? > > While I think it's not worth to fiddle around with changes in allowed > markup, I think getting rid of the requirement for t-list-t-list would > really help a lot and would be well worth doing. For people comming from > other kinds of XML/markup formats, it's quite surprising. Actually, HTML has the same restriction:

contains "inline" elements, and the list elements aren't part of that (or am I reading this wrong?). A much more important problem (IMHO) that needs to be addressed is that we can't have list items that span multiple paragraphs without resorting to hacks... BR, Julian From thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com Fri Feb 4 00:52:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4278A3A6B7C for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:52:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.878 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.878 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.371, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pmGBgjZgaZSB for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com [217.108.152.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA7693A6B7A for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CC3596C000A for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:56:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.47]) by r-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45D16C0001 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:56:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.192.128.44]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:55:35 +0100 Received: from [10.193.71.150] ([10.193.71.150]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:55:35 +0100 Message-ID: <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:55:35 +0100 From: Thomas Morin Organization: France Telecom Orange User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; ; ; ) Gecko/2010 Thunderbird/3.1.x MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2011 08:55:35.0475 (UTC) FILETIME=[497C9830:01CBC449] Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 08:52:14 -0000 Hi Tony, Tony Hansen a écrit : > The "Output mode" is what the output looks like: the text we all know > and love, html format, the nroff equivalent of the xml, text formatted > without page breaks, and xml with all of the XML entities and includes > processed. Today these are all generated in ASCII. These are the same > Output Modes that xml.resource.org has always generated. I kept the > "Output mode" heading from the current web form. > > The "Output format" is oriented towards the medium used to display the > output. ASCII maps to what we've all used before, but now there are > also options to generate PDF files, ePub files, RTF files, and > Postscript files. > > Now that I've explained further what their use maps into, are there > better terms than "Output mode" and "Output format"? How about "Output > media" for the latter instead of "format"? Well, if I may, I would actually suggest a different solution: instead of the two parameters, for which not all the combinations make sense (e.g. HTML as ASCII, xml as PDF/ePUB/PS, txt as RTF) or even work (eg. HTML/RTF doesn't seem to), why not consider a flat list containing only the working and most relevant combinations ? -Thomas From elwynd@dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 4 01:25:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25BB3A68AD for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:25:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.205, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VvIbcw4aVZvC for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:25:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from b.painless.aaisp.net.uk (b.painless.aaisp.net.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:0:30::51bb:1e34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B117B3A689B for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 250.254.187.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.187.254.250]) by b.painless.aaisp.net.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PlHxk-0007b4-Dk; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:28:20 +0000 From: Elwyn Davies To: Julian Reschke In-Reply-To: <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> <4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:30:01 +0000 Message-Id: <1296811801.17554.20268.camel@mightyatom.folly.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:25:01 -0000 On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 09:21 +0100, Julian Reschke wrote: > A much more important problem (IMHO) that needs to be addressed is that > we can't have list items that span multiple paragraphs without resorting > to hacks... > > BR, Julian +1 This problem has been discussed previously starting at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xml2rfc/current/msg02010.html and rewarmed at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xml2rfc/current/msg02033.html. The proposal for seemed good to me at the time - and the ability to have anchors that John Klensin proposed also seemed like a good idea, although we never got to a view of how such an anchor would be referenced in an . According to http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xml2rfc/current/msg02073.html Bill had some code but it doesn't seem to have made it into the running tool. Julian also claimed some work in the xslt processor. /E > _______________________________________________ > xml2rfc mailing list > xml2rfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc From julian.reschke@gmx.de Fri Feb 4 01:42:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0753A68AC for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:42:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.519, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5T6EXE8H7OE2 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C8633A689B for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Feb 2011 09:45:48 -0000 Received: from p508FDB1C.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.219.28] by mail.gmx.net (mp025) with SMTP; 04 Feb 2011 10:45:48 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18kIHRtG1ok/Jcjisq4g+5005Rclo6PlHjHxkxfNt 03azk2CD2SWR4O Message-ID: <4D4BCABF.9030309@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:45:35 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elwyn Davies References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com> <4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> <1296811801.17554.20268.camel@mightyatom.folly.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <1296811801.17554.20268.camel@mightyatom.folly.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: [xml2rfc] paragraphs in list items, was: Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:42:27 -0000 On 04.02.2011 10:30, Elwyn Davies wrote: > On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 09:21 +0100, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> A much more important problem (IMHO) that needs to be addressed is that >> we can't have list items that span multiple paragraphs without resorting >> to hacks... >> >> BR, Julian > +1 > > This problem has been discussed previously starting at > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xml2rfc/current/msg02010.html > and rewarmed at > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xml2rfc/current/msg02033.html. > > The proposal for seemed good to me at the time - and the ability to > have anchors that John Klensin proposed also seemed like a good idea, > although we never got to a view of how such an anchor would be > referenced in an. You wouldn't be able to rely on autogenerated link text, but at least you'd get hyperlinks in HTML, and would be able to use the anchor in the URI. > According to > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xml2rfc/current/msg02073.html > Bill had some code but it doesn't seem to have made it into the running > tool. Julian also claimed some work in the xslt processor. . I use it all the time. When pre-processing for xml2rfc.tcl (), the x:lt elements get combined into a single with as separator. Best regards, Julian From Chris.Dearlove@baesystems.com Fri Feb 4 01:45:13 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E543A689B for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:45:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.14 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.14 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdXhR+5wU7TH for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta3.baesystems.com (ukmta3.baesystems.com [20.133.40.55]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673473A6ADB for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 01:45:12 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,425,1291593600"; d="scan'208";a="114120537" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasodc004.greenlnk.net) ([10.108.36.11]) by Baemasodc001ir.sharelnk.net with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2011 09:48:36 +0000 Received: from glkms1103.GREENLNK.NET (glkms1103.greenlnk.net [10.108.36.194]) by baemasodc004.greenlnk.net (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p149maeo024769; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:48:36 GMT Received: from GLKMS2100.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.93]) by glkms1103.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:48:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:48:23 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvERJLWyWHy5xDKShirYdPTKTXC4wAC4weA References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com><4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: "Julian Reschke" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2011 09:48:35.0792 (UTC) FILETIME=[B11A7500:01CBC450] Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:45:13 -0000 > A much more important problem (IMHO) that needs to be addressed is that > we can't have list items that span multiple paragraphs without resorting > to hacks... I'd generalise that to wanting to be able to either group items together, or have some sort of "keep with next" attribute more widely. Tables can get split and captions detached from figures to name but two. (Of course I realise how much easier it is to want something than it is for someone to do it. And at least the vspace hacks work even if they need ripping out and re-entering each time a document is significantly changed.) ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From dworley@avaya.com Fri Feb 4 06:39:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E9A3A68E9 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:39:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kh7hkNvbC4K1 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound-tmp.us1.avaya.com (nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com [135.11.29.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E743A67D9 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:39:40 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAAafS02HCzI1/2dsb2JhbAClLXOgXwKYUoVaBIR6ijQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,426,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="57612581" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound-tmp.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2011 09:43:05 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,426,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="594399312" Received: from dc-us1hcex2.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.21]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2011 09:42:35 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:42:34 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:41:10 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvD4VbotuZPE6K2QIimRz9bz3i1hwAmDlHh Message-ID: References: , <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> , <4D4B1080.5000001@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4B1080.5000001@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 14:39:41 -0000 ________________________________________ From: Tony Hansen [tony@att.com] You should get the warnings and errors in the top frame and the generated text/HTML/nroff/whatever output in the bottom frame. The error message indicates that it can't find the temp file where the warning/error messages and html output were put. Did you do a "reload" of the frames? Once the above displays the temp files, they are removed, so wouldn't be found a second time. You'd have to resubmit the input files to get the output generated again. _________________________________________ I just tried it again, and got two frames of: File is gone -- did you click reload? Apache/2.2.16 (Debian) Server at xml.resource.org Port 80 I strongly suspect the problem is that there are no (reported) errors in th= e document, and that has caused the system to not create the errors file, b= ut the output options I selected were to only show errors... Dale From dworley@avaya.com Fri Feb 4 06:51:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0101A3A68E9 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:51:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZuSsY64zT2ms for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C883A67D9 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 06:51:14 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAIqiS03GmAcF/2dsb2JhbAClLnOgWAKYVYVaBIR6ijQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,426,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="263190588" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2011 09:54:26 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,426,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="578626875" Received: from unknown (HELO DC-US1HCEX3.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.22]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2011 09:54:26 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX3.global.avaya.com ([135.11.52.22]) with mapi; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:54:25 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen , "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:54:25 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvD3Ee4pfZhBwxPS3yolUPnHaGmcAAnefMU Message-ID: References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org>,<4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 14:51:16 -0000 ________________________________________ From: xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org [xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony= Hansen [tony@att.com] On 2/3/2011 11:35 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > On 02/02/2011 18:09 EST, Tony Hansen wrote: >> One placed I'd definitely appreciate feedback on would be better >> terminology in picking between the type of output (text with fixed >> length pages, html, nroff, etc) and the format of that output (ASCII, >> PDF, ePub, RTF and Postscript). Right now I'm calling these "Output >> mode" and "Output format". Any alternatives that people can think of? > I would think I understand the difference, but I don't understand your > examples so I probably don't. What does it mean if I have nroff mode > and ePub format? Am I viewing the raw nroff in ePub? Isn't nroff a > format, i.e. a markup language as to how to display the text? The "Output mode" is what the output looks like: the text we all know and love, html format, the nroff equivalent of the xml, text formatted without page breaks, and xml with all of the XML entities and includes processed. Today these are all generated in ASCII. These are the same Output Modes that xml.resource.org has always generated. I kept the "Output mode" heading from the current web form. The "Output format" is oriented towards the medium used to display the output. ASCII maps to what we've all used before, but now there are also options to generate PDF files, ePub files, RTF files, and Postscript files. _______________________________________________ I find this discussion confusing. I understand what text is, both as a file format and the implied formatting= of the document. Similarly with HTML, I know what an HTML file is and the expected non-pagin= ated format that it will contain. But what does it mean to select "text" *and* "PDF"? Do I get a text file? = Do I get a PDF file? Or (shudder) do I get a PDF file which when I displa= y it shows me lines of fixed-width characters? (The latter being a total w= aste, using a complex format to deliver the functionality of a simple forma= t, while also making it difficult to manipulate the data -- if I wanted pag= inated lines of fixed-width characters, I would have selected "text".) And I can't guess what it means to select "HTML" and "Postscript" together = -- a Postscript file which when displayed shows me the HTML tags that would= cause the document to be rendered? Perhaps what you mean is that one control is for the way the output is to u= ltimately appear, of which the choices are "paginated, fixed-width font", "= unpaginated, with pretty formatting like the traditional HTML format", and = possibly others; and the other control is the format that will be generated= (and whose facilities will be used to produce the selected appearance): te= xt, nroff, HTML. Dale From swb@employees.org Fri Feb 4 08:36:09 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730903A6907 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:36:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x+7+AtPWSYLL for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [IPv6:2001:1868:205::18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA3273A67F7 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6DAFD797; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:39:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=employees.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= selector1; bh=CevSmUqfnxuHZx5OwUeQ8j/Oem4=; b=eIJQIfprXpeUxMNYj1 ahMoJZOlmSosm4j2+mUw08CbhcQpp4nZtEFXthxvwXAOrIlnMZy6I+xI3eDM+gaw pLMxvNTftMXIY8jL7vi99QJ6CTAPylapV8QBvQ+ceomvn4eU5mM2gYwXDLco0eb1 iozdZNzvb6pgAGrQi01N+I5IQ= Received: from che-vpn-cluster-1-290.cisco.com (198-135-0-233.cisco.com [198.135.0.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: swb) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EAD4FD77E; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:39:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D4C2BC1.90409@employees.org> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 11:39:29 -0500 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Morin References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 16:36:09 -0000 On 02/04/2011 03:55 EST, Thomas Morin wrote: > Hi Tony, >=20 > Tony Hansen a =C3=A9crit : >> The "Output mode" is what the output looks like: the text we all know >> and love, html format, the nroff equivalent of the xml, text formatted >> without page breaks, and xml with all of the XML entities and includes >> processed. Today these are all generated in ASCII. These are the same >> Output Modes that xml.resource.org has always generated. I kept the >> "Output mode" heading from the current web form. >> >> The "Output format" is oriented towards the medium used to display the >> output. ASCII maps to what we've all used before, but now there are >> also options to generate PDF files, ePub files, RTF files, and >> Postscript files. >> >> Now that I've explained further what their use maps into, are there >> better terms than "Output mode" and "Output format"? How about "Output >> media" for the latter instead of "format"? >=20 > Well, if I may, I would actually suggest a different solution: instead > of the two parameters, for which not all the combinations make sense > (e.g. HTML as ASCII, xml as PDF/ePUB/PS, txt as RTF) or even work (eg. > HTML/RTF doesn't seem to), why not consider a flat list containing only > the working and most relevant combinations ? like MIME types? text/rtf, text/html, text/xml, application/epub, application/postscript ... ? Maybe it's better not to go through those arguments yet again? :-p From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Mon Feb 7 03:27:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65043A6DD1 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 03:27:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.238, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cAsg4bCKfE-R for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 03:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.33]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7D9E3A6DD0 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 03:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id p17BRPfg005617 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:27:25 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 7a2b_4796_3ceab9bc_32ad_11e0_98d5_001d096c566a; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:27:25 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:34911) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:27:24 +0900 Message-ID: <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:26:42 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Morin References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> In-Reply-To: <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:27:23 -0000 On 2011/02/04 17:55, Thomas Morin wrote: > Hi Tony, > > Tony Hansen a écrit : >> Now that I've explained further what their use maps into, are there >> better terms than "Output mode" and "Output format"? How about "Output >> media" for the latter instead of "format"? > > Well, if I may, I would actually suggest a different solution: instead > of the two parameters, for which not all the combinations make sense > (e.g. HTML as ASCII, xml as PDF/ePUB/PS, txt as RTF) or even work (eg. > HTML/RTF doesn't seem to), why not consider a flat list containing only > the working and most relevant combinations ? A very strong +1 for this proposal. It solves the question of what labels to use, it makes the selection a one-step process, and it reduces frustration (and possibly error-handling code) when combinations are not available. Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From tony@att.com Mon Feb 7 07:57:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADEDD3A6D97 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:57:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DT4bkCtoFih2 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail146.messagelabs.com (mail146.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98AB73A6D03 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:57:05 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-146.messagelabs.com!1297094228!22303176!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 13810 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2011 15:57:09 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-8.tower-146.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 7 Feb 2011 15:57:09 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FvVjs018628 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:57:31 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FvSSp018572 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:57:28 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17Fv4HG022276 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:57:05 -0500 Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FuxbQ022091 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:56:59 -0500 Received: from [135.91.118.213] (dn135-91-118-213.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.91.118.213]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110207155659gw100e4lcoe> (Authid: tony); Mon, 7 Feb 2011 15:56:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.118.213] Message-ID: <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:56:58 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 15:57:07 -0000 On 2/7/2011 6:26 AM, "Martin J. D=C3=BCrst" wrote: > On 2011/02/04 17:55, Thomas Morin wrote: >> Hi Tony, >> >> Well, if I may, I would actually suggest a different solution: instead= >> of the two parameters, for which not all the combinations make sense >> (e.g. HTML as ASCII, xml as PDF/ePUB/PS, txt as RTF) or even work (eg.= >> HTML/RTF doesn't seem to), why not consider a flat list containing onl= y >> the working and most relevant combinations ? > > A very strong +1 for this proposal. It solves the question of what=20 > labels to use, it makes the selection a one-step process, and it=20 > reduces frustration (and possibly error-handling code) when=20 > combinations are not available. Well, out of that 6x5 matrix, there are exactly two combinations that=20 don't work: HTML and HTMLxslt as RTF. A flat list of the 28 remaining=20 possibilities is *not* feasible. Part of this exercise (for me) is to find out what people find useful.=20 If no one thinks particular combinations are useful, then they can be=20 eliminated. So the next question becomes: which are the most relevant and useful? On possibility is to eliminate RTF entirely: no one's asked for it. The=20 only reason it's there is that the software underlying non-HTML =3D> XYZ = conversion supported RTF as an output format, so tossing it in was cheap.= Another possibility is to eliminate Postscript: no one's asked for it=20 either. However, PS needed to be generated as an intermediate step in=20 achieving PDF in most of the output formats, so generating the PS=20 version was cheap. That leaves ASCII, PDF and ePub, or 18 combinations. You can argue that it doesn't make sense to represent nroff or XML=20 output using PDF or ePub. (And I'd mostly agree.) Removing those two as PDF and ePub still leaves 14 combinations. If you look at the PDF files that are in the RFC repository, you'll find = that some of them look like the text format and some look fancier. So=20 I'd suggest keeping both text and HTML in PDF. I don't have enough information yet on what makes a good ePub document. *Do* people agree that Postscript should be eliminated? *Do* people agree that RTF should be eliminated? *Do* people agree that it doesn't make sense to represent nroff or XML=20 output using PDF or ePub? With the above eliminations, we wind up with this set: ASCII: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via=20 xslt), nroff and XML PDF: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xsl= t) ePub: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt= ) Is this the right thing to do? Tony Hansen tony@att.com From tony@att.com Mon Feb 7 07:59:20 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC8D3A6D03 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:59:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id noLEyiwTkpNs for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail167.messagelabs.com (mail167.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864A13A6937 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:59:19 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-167.messagelabs.com!1297094362!21292608!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 4226 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2011 15:59:23 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-6.tower-167.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 7 Feb 2011 15:59:22 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FxjfG021993 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:59:45 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FxeXt021903 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:59:40 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FxH70027599 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:59:17 -0500 Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17FxBeH027412 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:59:11 -0500 Received: from [135.91.118.213] (dn135-91-118-213.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.91.118.213]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110207155911gw100e4lcpe> (Authid: tony); Mon, 7 Feb 2011 15:59:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.118.213] Message-ID: <4D5016CF.6080506@att.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:59:11 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com><4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 15:59:20 -0000 On 2/4/2011 4:48 AM, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) wrote: >> A much more important problem (IMHO) that needs to be addressed is that >> we can't have list items that span multiple paragraphs without resorting >> to hacks... > I'd generalise that to wanting to be able to either group items together, > or have some sort of "keep with next" attribute more widely. Tables can > get split and captions detached from figures to name but two. Hmmm. This is related to the general issue of widow and orphan control, which is something that we could definitely use when getting to the end of the production cycle. > (Of course I realise how much easier it is to want something than it > is for someone to do it. And at least the vspace hacks work even if > they need ripping out and re-entering each time a document is > significantly changed.) Yup, that's always the hard part. Tony Hansen tony@att.com From julian.reschke@gmx.de Mon Feb 7 08:30:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763F73A6DD9 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:30:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eYunr67CrLt6 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3F0A93A6990 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 07 Feb 2011 16:30:59 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.134]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 07 Feb 2011 17:30:59 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+ZSXFyPsGZbU5v7sMGDppICzEOOJbBJ1WLuJi833 gY0FZtZAurZnGE Message-ID: <4D501E41.1060307@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:30:57 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 16:30:57 -0000 On 07.02.2011 16:56, Tony Hansen wrote: > ... > With the above eliminations, we wind up with this set: > > ASCII: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via > xslt), nroff and XML > PDF: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt) > ePub: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt) > > Is this the right thing to do? > ... Let's eliminate some more - ePub: Text(*) - PDF: Text(paginated) The remaining complexity is just caused by us having two ways to get to HTML, right? BR, Julian From dworley@avaya.com Mon Feb 7 09:24:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EACA53A6E2F for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:24:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oxJfvSzwccmY for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:24:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D033A6E27 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:24:28 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAEK5T03GmAcF/2dsb2JhbAClMnOhIwKYWoVaBIR6ijU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="231264243" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2011 12:24:32 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="579289405" Received: from dc-us1hcex1.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.20]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2011 12:24:31 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX1.global.avaya.com ([2002:870b:3414::870b:3414]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:24:31 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen , "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:20:44 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvG4AAV8sYS/6WrTvWWbUTB47tG2AAC1oiu Message-ID: References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com><4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> , <4D5016CF.6080506@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D5016CF.6080506@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:24:30 -0000 ________________________________________ From: xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org [xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony= Hansen [tony@att.com] > I'd generalise that to wanting to be able to either group items together, > or have some sort of "keep with next" attribute more widely. Tables can > get split and captions detached from figures to name but two. Hmmm. This is related to the general issue of widow and orphan control, which is something that we could definitely use when getting to the end of the production cycle. _______________________________________________ The underlying problem is that the children of are , which implie= s that the elements of a list *must* be paragraphs. That problem would hav= e been solved by using the method that HTML does, where there is a special = "list element" element. But that would require that in most lists, the ele= ments would be

  • ...
    • . Given where we stand now, perhaps a go= od solution would be to create a element that is also allowed t= o be a child of , whose children are , and those 's are separat= ed by paragraph-breakage in the normal way. Dale From dworley@avaya.com Mon Feb 7 09:30:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1273A6E35 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:30:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FOQ3b9WMAHtt for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B273A6E32 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:30:50 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAF67T02HCzI1/2dsb2JhbAClMnOhFQKYW4VaBIR6ijU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="263576863" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2011 12:30:54 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="595169336" Received: from dc-us1hcex2.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.21]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2011 12:30:52 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com ([::1]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:30:52 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen , "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:30:51 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvG37Ev5biZK28qRaivR8t21J9DOgADENwM Message-ID: References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>,<4D50164A.3010209@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:30:51 -0000 ________________________________________ From: xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org [xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony= Hansen [tony@att.com] With the above eliminations, we wind up with this set: ASCII: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt), nroff and XML PDF: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt) ePub: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt) _______________________________________________ I don't see what you mean by many of these combinations. What is "PDF: HTM= L"? Is it a PDF file or an HTML file? Or do you mean "a PDF file which, w= hen rendered, looks very much like the HTML output" ("an application/pdf, = which when printed, looks as if you printed a text/html")? You seem to be naming output formats based on what they *look* like when th= ey are rendered, as opposed to the actual file format generated. I suppose= that's not a bad thing, but a more clear terminology would help this discu= ssion along. Dale From tony@att.com Mon Feb 7 10:25:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F9F23A6E6A for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:25:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sBBhbgAoi4Ri for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail119.messagelabs.com (mail119.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1772C3A6E60 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 10:25:55 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-119.messagelabs.com!1297103159!4543455!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 15403 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2011 18:26:00 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-7.tower-119.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 7 Feb 2011 18:26:00 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17IQM6J010796 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:26:22 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17IQHrr010641 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:26:17 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17IPsPd004651 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:25:54 -0500 Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p17IPpvl004549 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:25:51 -0500 Received: from [135.91.118.213] (dn135-91-118-213.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.91.118.213]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110207182551gw100e4ldte> (Authid: tony); Mon, 7 Feb 2011 18:25:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.118.213] Message-ID: <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 13:25:50 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 18:25:57 -0000 On 2/7/2011 12:30 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: > ________________________________________ > From: xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org [xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony Hansen [tony@att.com] > > With the above eliminations, we wind up with this set: > > ASCII: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via > xslt), nroff and XML > PDF: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt) > ePub: Text (paginated and unpaginated), HTML (via xml2rfc and via xslt) > _______________________________________________ > > I don't see what you mean by many of these combinations. What is "PDF: HTML"? Is it a PDF file or an HTML file? Or do you mean "a PDF file which, when rendered, looks very much like the HTML output" ("an application/pdf, which when printed, looks as if you printed a text/html")? > > You seem to be naming output formats based on what they *look* like when they are rendered, as opposed to the actual file format generated. I suppose that's not a bad thing, but a more clear terminology would help this discussion along. Which gets back to my original questions, which boil down to: what would be clearer terminology? Using the current terms, the "output mode" is what it will look like when it is rendered, and the "output format" is the file format generated. So "HTML as PDF" in the form (or "PDF: HTML" in the above email message) means an application/pdf that when viewed or printed, looks like what the HTML would look like in a browser. The existing xml.resource.org form uses the term "Output mode" in the same manner -- it's what the output looks like. Another way to look at it the current combinations would be: Mode Format Text (paginated) text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub Text (unpaginated) text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub HTML (via xml2rfc) text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub HTML (via xslt) text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub nroff text/plain XML text/xml Does that help? Tony Hansen From dworley@avaya.com Mon Feb 7 13:03:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 213413A6F00 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:03:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SPzeeMfb5y58 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound-tmp.us1.avaya.com (nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com [135.11.29.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA74F3A6EFF for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:03:01 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAJfsT02HCzI1/2dsb2JhbAClInOhQQKYZIJ+glwEhHqKNQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="58003434" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound-tmp.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2011 16:03:06 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="595252516" Received: from dc-us1hcex2.us1.avaya.com (HELO DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.52.21]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2011 16:02:31 -0500 Received: from DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com ([169.254.2.215]) by DC-US1HCEX2.global.avaya.com ([::1]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 16:02:30 -0500 From: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" To: Tony Hansen , "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 16:02:30 -0500 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvG9I7yTDM5mWYbR6i8zqHN9ocyMgAFMyEM Message-ID: References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:03:03 -0000 > From: Tony Hansen [tony@att.com] >=20 > The existing xml.resource.org form uses the term "Output mode" in the > same manner -- it's what the output looks like. That's not what I see. I see it as offering two output formats, HTML (=3D text/html) and text (=3D text/plain). Either can be outputted into a file, or you can have your browser display it. (As a programmer, I see the output file format as the primary matter, as that determines what further programs it can be input to. The visual format is a secondary question. xml2rfc is above all a program that transforms one file into another.) > Another way to look at it the current combinations would be: >=20 > Mode Format > Text (paginated) text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub > Text (unpaginated) text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub > HTML (via xml2rfc) text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub > HTML (via xslt) text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub > nroff text/plain > XML text/xml How about: Visual format File format ------------- ----------- Fixed-width text (paginated) text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub Fixed-width text (unpaginated) =20 text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub Like a web page (formatted via xml2rfc) text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub Like a web page (formatted via xslt) =20 text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub nroff input text/plain XML text/xml (Speaking of formatting, that table requires a fixed-width font to display = correctly.) That starts to get us away from using "HTML" as the name of a visual appearance. Presumably the "XML" output is the identity operation? Dale From julian.reschke@gmx.de Mon Feb 7 13:19:06 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BFD3A6F1C for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:19:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wh3y9iSUzK-a for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 760BB3A6EFE for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 07 Feb 2011 21:19:07 -0000 Received: from p508F9DBA.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.157.186] by mail.gmx.net (mp037) with SMTP; 07 Feb 2011 22:19:07 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/JeHRwZmDJmO7rii2TcYAgLR+D0UujOT/33QNALq ILqBQ8JSb1iLAs Message-ID: <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 22:19:04 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:19:06 -0000 On 07.02.2011 22:02, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: > How about: > > Visual format File format > ------------- ----------- > Fixed-width text (paginated) > text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub Doesn't really make sense for ePub. ePub *is* HTML. > Fixed-width text (unpaginated) > text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub Doesn't really make sense for ePub. ePub *is* HTML. Also: what does unpaginated text in PDF even mean? What is it for? > Like a web page (formatted via xml2rfc) > text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub > Like a web page (formatted via xslt) > text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub > nroff input text/plain > XML text/xml > > (Speaking of formatting, that table requires a fixed-width font to display correctly.) > > That starts to get us away from using "HTML" as the name of a visual > appearance. > > Presumably the "XML" output is the identity operation? ...with inclusions inlined, creating a standalone document. From Chris.Dearlove@baesystems.com Tue Feb 8 02:28:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F103A70D5 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:28:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WKuHc1gx34MG for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta3.baesystems.com (ukmta3.baesystems.com [20.133.40.55]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260B63A70D4 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,441,1291593600"; d="scan'208";a="114741952" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasodc004.greenlnk.net) ([10.108.36.11]) by Baemasodc001ir.sharelnk.net with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2011 10:28:19 +0000 Received: from glkms1103.GREENLNK.NET (glkms1103.greenlnk.net [10.108.36.194]) by baemasodc004.greenlnk.net (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p18ASJbB022668; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:28:19 GMT Received: from GLKMS2100.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.93]) by glkms1103.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:28:19 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:28:18 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D5016CF.6080506@att.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attributevalues Thread-Index: AcvG4AO0J0Ly0T55SyulnXc5kuLssgAml6+w References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D49F4B7.2050306@gmail.com><4D4BA156.7050901@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D4BB6FB.7020107@gmx.de> <4D5016CF.6080506@att.com> From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: "Tony Hansen" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2011 10:28:19.0365 (UTC) FILETIME=[E779D550:01CBC77A] Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attributevalues X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 10:28:18 -0000 > This is related to the general issue of widow and orphan control, which > is something that we could definitely use when getting to the end of the > production cycle. Special case of that (typically solved by keep with next styles in a word processor) is headings. I find the case where the heading is at the foot of a page, but the text on the next as looking poor. However I haven't seen it recently. Maybe it's already fixed, or I've been lucky. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Tue Feb 8 02:41:21 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D1D3A70F0 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:41:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.478, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C1KhaFSnmWWm for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:41:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179243A70F1 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id p18AfGcP030047 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 19:41:17 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 32ac_3726_f5089f7e_336f_11e0_8d8f_001d096c5782; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:41:16 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:32865) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 19:41:14 +0900 Message-ID: <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:40:29 +0900 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 10:41:22 -0000 On 2011/02/08 6:19, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 07.02.2011 22:02, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: >> How about: >> >> Visual format File format >> ------------- ----------- >> Fixed-width text (paginated) >> text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub > > Doesn't really make sense for ePub. ePub *is* HTML. Well, yes, but as e.g. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2629 shows, it's perfectly possible to have fixed-width paginated text in HTML. Actually, I have to say that I often prefer this kind of HTML to e.g. http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/html/rfc2629.html. The former look like the "real thing" that we have been used for a long time (you may call me old-fashioned) and is as good as typewriter typography goes; the later is an ad-hoc style (no offence to Marshall, but I guess he would be the first to admit) that could definitely be improved (I'm not a designer, so don't ask me to do it, but I'll gladly point out some of the current problems if we want to go down that rathole). >> Fixed-width text (unpaginated) >> text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub > > Doesn't really make sense for ePub. ePub *is* HTML. See above. > Also: what does unpaginated text in PDF even mean? What is it for? I tend to agree. The fixed-width unpaginated plain text may be very helpful for diffs, but I don't see too much of a point for PDF and ePub here. Regards, Martin. >> Like a web page (formatted via xml2rfc) >> text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub >> Like a web page (formatted via xslt) >> text/html, application/pdf, application/ePub >> nroff input text/plain >> XML text/xml >> >> (Speaking of formatting, that table requires a fixed-width font to >> display correctly.) >> >> That starts to get us away from using "HTML" as the name of a visual >> appearance. >> >> Presumably the "XML" output is the identity operation? > > ...with inclusions inlined, creating a standalone document. > _______________________________________________ > xml2rfc mailing list > xml2rfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc > > -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue Feb 8 02:52:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13063A70DF for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:52:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKLSwsxGK2pW for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 42F8C3A6D95 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Feb 2011 10:52:27 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.134]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp024) with SMTP; 08 Feb 2011 11:52:27 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19tYdUShqdtOdwhVK+9ziTxBm0RfFDVHeJhVEyV7j k+Hzx0sDOTnPUR Message-ID: <4D512066.9070000@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:52:22 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 10:52:23 -0000 On 08.02.2011 11:40, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote: > > > On 2011/02/08 6:19, Julian Reschke wrote: >> On 07.02.2011 22:02, Worley, Dale R (Dale) wrote: >>> How about: >>> >>> Visual format File format >>> ------------- ----------- >>> Fixed-width text (paginated) >>> text/plain, application/pdf, application/ePub >> >> Doesn't really make sense for ePub. ePub *is* HTML. > > Well, yes, but as e.g. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2629 shows, it's > perfectly possible to have fixed-width paginated text in HTML. Actually, > I have to say that I often prefer this kind of HTML to e.g. > http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/html/rfc2629.html. The former look > like the "real thing" that we have been used for a long time (you may > call me old-fashioned) and is as good as typewriter typography goes; the > later is an ad-hoc style (no offence to Marshall, but I guess he would > be the first to admit) that could definitely be improved (I'm not a > designer, so don't ask me to do it, but I'll gladly point out some of > the current problems if we want to go down that rathole). Understood. I'm not going to work on xml2rfc's HTML output, but if you have suggestions for rcf2629.xslt's, please go ahead. > ... Best regards, Julian From Chris.Dearlove@baesystems.com Tue Feb 8 02:56:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997E93A7105 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:56:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PwdQ2JDTx-6i for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta3.baesystems.com (ukmta3.baesystems.com [20.133.40.55]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB6E3A7104 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 02:56:21 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,441,1291593600"; d="scan'208";a="114752918" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasodc004.greenlnk.net) ([10.108.36.11]) by Baemasodc001ir.sharelnk.net with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2011 10:56:28 +0000 Received: from glkms1102.GREENLNK.NET (glkms1102.greenlnk.net [10.108.36.193]) by baemasodc004.greenlnk.net (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p18AuROo010743; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:56:27 GMT Received: from GLKMS2100.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.93]) by glkms1102.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:56:27 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:56:26 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvHfMDhM0NCMQjiT6+IYQztsBZK/gAAaSOA References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= , "Julian Reschke" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2011 10:56:27.0216 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5837500:01CBC77E] Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 10:56:22 -0000 > I tend to agree. The fixed-width unpaginated plain text may be very > helpful for diffs, but I don't see too much of a point for PDF and ePub > here. Don't know about ePub, but the PDF of the fixed-width font allows proper paginated printing of the definitive version of the document, while the text often doesn't print correctly. (My trick to printing the text correctly is to load it into Word, which works but isn't exactly what should be recommended.) ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue Feb 8 03:00:28 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205C93A6D95 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:00:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vu0qf0OzT0Qf for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E9A393A7107 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Feb 2011 11:00:32 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.134]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp065) with SMTP; 08 Feb 2011 12:00:32 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+knw1ebyqkp+YaqT61setoIVxUFe2KAJrsIafRpJ zcF8dNbgkZczWT Message-ID: <4D51224C.30608@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:00:28 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:00:28 -0000 On 08.02.2011 11:56, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) wrote: >> I tend to agree. The fixed-width unpaginated plain text may be very >> helpful for diffs, but I don't see too much of a point for PDF and ePub >> here. > > Don't know about ePub, but the PDF of the fixed-width font allows > proper paginated printing of the definitive version of the document, > while the text often doesn't print correctly. (My trick to printing > the text correctly is to load it into Word, which works but isn't > exactly what should be recommended.) You can also directly print the HTML version generated by rfcmarkup on tools.ietf.org. BR, Julian From Chris.Dearlove@baesystems.com Tue Feb 8 03:10:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE043A710C for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:10:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LoXRuljE-1NX for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta3.baesystems.com (ukmta3.baesystems.com [20.133.40.55]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2BD53A70AB for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:10:34 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,441,1291593600"; d="scan'208";a="114760108" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasodc004.greenlnk.net) ([10.108.36.11]) by Baemasodc001ir.sharelnk.net with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2011 11:10:40 +0000 Received: from glkms1103.GREENLNK.NET (glkms1103.greenlnk.net [10.108.36.194]) by baemasodc004.greenlnk.net (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p18BAer9021122; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:10:40 GMT Received: from GLKMS2100.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.93]) by glkms1103.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:10:40 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:10:39 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D51224C.30608@gmx.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values Thread-Index: AcvHf2ssW0JGeww7TiiXQALRJdL0WgAALD/Q References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D51224C.30608@gmx.de> From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: "Julian Reschke" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2011 11:10:40.0412 (UTC) FILETIME=[D20ED5C0:01CBC780] Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:10:38 -0000 Not exactly the same when I do that - extra header and footer and bold subheadings on the one page I tried out from a random RFC. I'd guess there may be other things I haven't seen. That may in some ways be better (not the header and footer, but that may be a browser thing - itself an issue) but it is different. Still of the opinion there's value in the fixed format PDF. Not critical value, but value. --=20 Christopher Dearlove Technology Leader, Communications Group Communications and Networks Capability BAE Systems Advanced Technology Centre West Hanningfield Road, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, CM2 8HN, UK Tel: +44 1245 242194 Fax: +44 1245 242124 BAE Systems (Operations) Limited Registered Office: Warwick House, PO Box 87, Farnborough Aerospace Centre, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 6YU, UK Registered in England & Wales No: 1996687 -----Original Message----- From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de]=20 Sent: 08 February 2011 11:00 To: Dearlove, Christopher (UK) Cc: "Martin J. D=FCrst"; xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute val= ues *** WARNING *** This message has originated outside your organisation, either from an external partner or the Global Internet.=20 Keep this in mind if you answer this message. =20 On 08.02.2011 11:56, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) wrote: >> I tend to agree. The fixed-width unpaginated plain text may be very >> helpful for diffs, but I don't see too much of a point for PDF and ePub >> here. > > Don't know about ePub, but the PDF of the fixed-width font allows > proper paginated printing of the definitive version of the document, > while the text often doesn't print correctly. (My trick to printing > the text correctly is to load it into Word, which works but isn't > exactly what should be recommended.) You can also directly print the HTML version generated by rfcmarkup on=20 tools.ietf.org. BR, Julian ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From tony@att.com Thu Feb 17 11:10:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC7A3A6DE3 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:10:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ik3wBdNBq7AS for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail161.messagelabs.com (mail161.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C273A6D26 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:10:31 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-161.messagelabs.com!1297969861!35442948!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 12141 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2011 19:11:01 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-4.tower-161.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 17 Feb 2011 19:11:01 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJBN9S023518 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:11:24 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJBJNK023398 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:11:19 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJAub0022349 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:10:56 -0500 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJAmuq021909 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:10:49 -0500 Received: from [135.91.110.95] (dn135-91-110-95.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.95]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110217191048gw100e4ld1e> (Authid: tony); Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:10:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.95] Message-ID: <4D5D72B8.30204@att.com> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:10:48 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D512066.9070000@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4D512066.9070000@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect "<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:10:32 -0000 On 2/8/2011 5:52 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 08.02.2011 11:40, "Martin J. D=FCrst" wrote: >> ... >> Well, yes, but as e.g. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2629 shows, it's >> perfectly possible to have fixed-width paginated text in HTML. Actuall= y, >> I have to say that I often prefer this kind of HTML to e.g. >> http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/html/rfc2629.html. The former look >> like the "real thing" that we have been used for a long time (you may >> call me old-fashioned) and is as good as typewriter typography goes; t= he >> later is an ad-hoc style (no offence to Marshall, but I guess he would= >> be the first to admit) that could definitely be improved (I'm not a >> designer, so don't ask me to do it, but I'll gladly point out some of >> the current problems if we want to go down that rathole). > > Understood. > > I'm not going to work on xml2rfc's HTML output, but if you have=20 > suggestions for rcf2629.xslt's, please go ahead. I'd be interested in hearing suggestions to the HTML output generated by = xml2rfc. Tony Hansen tony@att.com From tony@att.com Thu Feb 17 11:13:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978A83A6DE3; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:13:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lydPR-YHXPzH; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail167.messagelabs.com (mail167.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F793A6E3E; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:13:14 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-167.messagelabs.com!1297970024!24960088!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.9; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 20881 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2011 19:13:45 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-9.tower-167.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 17 Feb 2011 19:13:45 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJE7hi027191; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:14:07 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJE0XP027014; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:14:00 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJDbUH029879; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:13:37 -0500 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1HJDVIu029620; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:13:32 -0500 Received: from [135.91.110.95] (dn135-91-110-95.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.95]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20110217191331gw100e4ld3e> (Authid: tony); Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:13:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.95] Message-ID: <4D5D735B.9020502@att.com> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:13:31 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org, XML Developer List References: <4D49E426.4040909@att.com> <4D4AD944.4000505@employees.org> <4D4B080F.1010909@att.com> <4D4BBF07.6080004@orange-ftgroup.com> <4D4FD6F2.8060603@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, <4D50164A.3010209@att.com> , <4D50392E.4040807@att.com> <4D5061C8.5080201@gmx.de> <4D511D9D.5050905@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4D51224C.30608@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Online converter does not detect"<" in attribute values X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:13:15 -0000 I've updated the xml.resource.org/experimental.html page based on feedback here. Hopefully this version is more easily understood. I'm not suggesting that it's perfect -- more feedback is welcome. I'd like to get this pushed out to the public site sometime next week. So keep those cards and letters coming. Tony Hansen tony@att.com