From dcrocker@bbiw.net Thu Aug 4 10:01:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31A221F8B20 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.163 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1WPvhUGJBOoC for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3B621F8B05 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p74H1Sfn031538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:01:30 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.156] (adsl-68-122-69-114.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.122.69.114]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p74H1NG8024333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:01:28 -0700 Message-ID: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:01:17 -0700 From: Dave CROCKER Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xml2rfc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 17:01:16 -0000 Howdy, Pursuing an item raised (once again) on the IETF list: I suggest the addition of a construct, for including a URL or email address to pursue discussion of a draft. To anticipate the alternative already raised on the IETF list: I-Ds often are not associated with a working group. As a consequence, using the existing working group construct is not possible. Even when it is possible, it's a level of indirection and extra effort that seems to me, at best, too IETF cliquish. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu Aug 4 10:51:55 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9A021F8B15 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.636 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.636 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.058, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HIoKsg3zJND5 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE2F21F8B0F for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p74Hq8Qv001124 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:52:10 -0700 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Aug 2011 17:52:02 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.140]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp040) with SMTP; 04 Aug 2011 19:52:02 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+cEIEziVqcvPrX+zBMn+bMkUcwWOtKeQbNQ0Z2r+ r6jzoYz/7m/imM Message-ID: <4E3ADC3E.4050506@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:51:58 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave CROCKER References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> In-Reply-To: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 17:51:56 -0000 On 2011-08-04 19:01, Dave CROCKER wrote: > Howdy, > > Pursuing an item raised (once again) on the IETF list: > > I suggest the addition of a construct, for including a URL > or email address to pursue discussion of a draft. > > To anticipate the alternative already raised on the IETF list: I-Ds > often are not associated with a working group. As a consequence, using > the existing working group construct is not possible. > > Even when it is possible, it's a level of indirection and extra effort > that seems to me, at best, too IETF cliquish. +0.5 So, where should it go in the Internet Draft? Maybe even into the header? Best regards, Julian From ned.freed@mrochek.com Thu Aug 4 14:48:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B037C21F87AF for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:48:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JTOLRvN7agPj for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1BC21F8788 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [66.59.230.40]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p74Ln09W009538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:49:02 -0700 Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O4GFGYR03K00YJ0L@mauve.mrochek.com> for xml2rfc@xml.resource.org; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O4CJSMR6GG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-id: <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:46:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:01:17 -0700" <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; Format=flowed References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> To: Dave CROCKER DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1312494418; bh=ln6jmo8i0IpyX+hGX4kDldAHyWbw72qr9hdjj4Ac1L4=; h=Cc:Message-id:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:MIME-version: Content-type:References:To; b=fOnZLTV6tbAs94yONneVbHnT7lqaTofEc1B7jtdiZz8/oU/VmDttE+QTs/GP5SwXW 12LSI+xFMaeW70hRyiWFoQ7fhvKLahYz5qVlvdEvEYd1lCgjNzSFTVRTv/+tC8W4+1 rD8rNcNk+DfKmM4dva/f4VUorrqjX+9XHFZ9MOfA= Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:48:47 -0000 +1. This really needs to be a separate element so that the processing of it can be automated (e.g., it shows up in draft mode, not RFC mode). Ned > Pursuing an item raised (once again) on the IETF list: > I suggest the addition of a construct, for including a URL or email > address to pursue discussion of a draft. > To anticipate the alternative already raised on the IETF list: I-Ds often are > not associated with a working group. As a consequence, using the existing > working group construct is not possible. > Even when it is possible, it's a level of indirection and extra effort that > seems to me, at best, too IETF cliquish. > d/ > -- > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net > _______________________________________________ > xml2rfc mailing list > xml2rfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc From dhc2@dcrocker.net Thu Aug 4 15:05:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD8721F8AA9 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:05:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.471, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mFi+sTaWSsvf for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33B921F8A69 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p74M5wJV010024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:05:59 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.156] (adsl-68-122-69-114.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.122.69.114]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p74M5qkq030463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:05:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:05:47 -0700 From: Dave CROCKER Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 22:05:47 -0000 On 8/4/2011 2:46 PM, Ned Freed wrote: > +1. This really needs to be a separate element so that the processing of it can > be automated (e.g., it shows up in draft mode, not RFC mode). I hadn't thought of that. good point. As for Julian's question, I worry a bit about adding another line to the first page header, but I think the only other standardized place for 'housekeeping' information would be the Authors section, I think, and that's not designed for anything other than author info. My own convention has increasingly moved towards a "Considerations" major section, with Security and IANA as subsections. Major sections trigger a new page and the Considerations stuff doesn't warrant it, IMO. In that model, a "Discussion" subsection would be pretty comfortable. But it's not a typical template for folks to organize the document that way. mumble. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Thu Aug 4 16:52:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6512411E8094 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.224 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.224 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.387, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I2iqrs8AuRnL for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08BF11E807C for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p74NqwDj013035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:59 -0700 Received: from [10.20.30.101] (50-0-66-4.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.0.66.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p74NqWaI050716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:51 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> To: xml2rfc X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 23:52:46 -0000 -1 to this as an XML element. It would freeze both the position in the = document and probably limit the introductory text. The latter is = important for non-WG documents that the author wants discussed on a WG = mailing list. The idea of having this in drafts is fairly important; it should be = encouraged in the IETF. However, that can be done simply by encouraging = (or maybe forcing by ADs who are presented with individual submissions). --Paul Hoffman From julian.reschke@gmx.de Fri Aug 5 00:02:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 768E211E807F for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 00:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.682, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2vfpHh9J4pH1 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 00:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F55611E8073 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 00:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p7572h28025175 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 00:02:44 -0700 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Aug 2011 07:02:35 -0000 Received: from p508FDEBF.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [80.143.222.191] by mail.gmx.net (mp070) with SMTP; 05 Aug 2011 09:02:35 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/V4Rg3JvfVPdR6slgugQDQvZh+82VHK0mQwfvsqB /R7qClXdGNQgsr Message-ID: <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:02:26 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:02:29 -0000 On 2011-08-05 00:05, Dave CROCKER wrote: > > > On 8/4/2011 2:46 PM, Ned Freed wrote: >> +1. This really needs to be a separate element so that the processing >> of it can >> be automated (e.g., it shows up in draft mode, not RFC mode). > > > I hadn't thought of that. good point. > > As for Julian's question, I worry a bit about adding another line to the > first page header, but I think the only other standardized place for > 'housekeeping' information would be the Authors section, I think, and > that's not designed for anything other than author info. > > My own convention has increasingly moved towards a "Considerations" > major section, with Security and IANA as subsections. Major sections > trigger a new page and the Considerations stuff doesn't warrant it, IMO. > In that model, a "Discussion" subsection would be pretty comfortable. > But it's not a typical template for folks to organize the document that > way. > ... You can simply add a below the . Best regards, Julian From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Fri Aug 5 07:59:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DF121F85AE for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:59:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.204 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.204 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.367, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yE-DHOwvomAF for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EED21F8B5B for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p75ExhNg007609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:59:44 -0700 Received: from [10.20.30.101] (50-0-66-4.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.0.66.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p75Ewxsx081787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:59:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:59:16 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Cc: xml2rfc , dcrocker@bbiw.net Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 14:59:27 -0000 On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > You can simply add a below the . Or at the end of the Introduction (which seems to be more typical). --Paul Hoffman From julian.reschke@gmx.de Fri Aug 5 08:14:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613B521F8BF9 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:14:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.161 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.324, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-wok+gZmAWG for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E757F21F8BB6 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p75FEdRJ008193 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:14:41 -0700 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Aug 2011 15:14:33 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.140]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp072) with SMTP; 05 Aug 2011 17:14:33 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/qg4wxTMXq30bPGuy0lqpIVh39a9KDPN+jYLqn8D /fXy68tJcU8Zp4 Message-ID: <4E3C08D4.8080609@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 17:14:28 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc , dcrocker@bbiw.net Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:14:57 -0000 On 2011-08-05 16:59, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >> You can simply add a below the. > > > Or at the end of the Introduction (which seems to be more typical). > > --Paul Hoffman If it's more typical then maybe because people do not realize they can add a . :-) From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Fri Aug 5 08:40:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6AE21F8B8D for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:40:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.348, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6qBR7J1AN1Wr for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A254321F8B4D for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p75Feuui008891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:40:58 -0700 Received: from [10.20.30.101] (50-0-66-4.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.0.66.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p75FeSqg083237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <4E3C08D4.8080609@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:40:48 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> <4E3C08D4.8080609@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:40:41 -0000 On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:14 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2011-08-05 16:59, Paul Hoffman wrote: >> On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> You can simply add a below the. >>=20 >>=20 >> Or at the end of the Introduction (which seems to be more typical). >>=20 >> --Paul Hoffman >=20 > If it's more typical then maybe because people do not realize they can = add a . :-) Semantically, it belongs in the introductory material, not the abstract = material. Material that is only in the abstract and not in the body of = the document is not an abstract. --Paul Hoffman From msk@cloudmark.com Fri Aug 5 08:43:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0969821F8AFE for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.753 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.753 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.916, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mKBqB2YBM6Ws for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A1E21F8AD1 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.35]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p75FhQXt008988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:43:27 -0700 Received: from EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.74]) by malice.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.10.71]) with mapi; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:43:26 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: xml2rfc Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:43:23 -0700 Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] construct Thread-Index: AcxThhfoLBH/tAvnTG6V8vA0f+Xd/AAADkvg Message-ID: References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> <4E3C08D4.8080609@gmx.de> <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:43:10 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Paul Hoffman > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 8:41 AM > To: Julian Reschke > Cc: xml2rfc > Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct >=20 > Semantically, it belongs in the introductory material, not the abstract > material. Material that is only in the abstract and not in the body of > the document is not an abstract. I've been including it in an appendix so far, based on the idea that severa= l of those (e.g., changes since last version) will be deleted prior to publ= ication anyway. From julian.reschke@gmx.de Fri Aug 5 08:50:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7841221F8B87 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:50:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.176, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mrMFM4uJ7Sii for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C7821F8B86 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with SMTP id p75Fp21w009209 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:51:04 -0700 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Aug 2011 15:50:56 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.140]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp071) with SMTP; 05 Aug 2011 17:50:56 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18eyO5Rv/AekKuMElOvrZieCcEDw2/DnGi71TZjkR 2qeIt5kkAhOzLT Message-ID: <4E3C115B.5010307@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 17:50:51 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> <4E3C08D4.8080609@gmx.de> <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:50:47 -0000 On 2011-08-05 17:40, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:14 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> On 2011-08-05 16:59, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>> On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>> You can simply add a below the. >>> >>> >>> Or at the end of the Introduction (which seems to be more typical). >>> >>> --Paul Hoffman >> >> If it's more typical then maybe because people do not realize they can add a. :-) > > > Semantically, it belongs in the introductory material, not the abstract material. Material that is only in the abstract and not in the body of the document is not an abstract. The creates a subsection *following* the abstract; it's not part of it. (I agree that this doesn't belong into the abstract). Best regards, Julian From jabley@hopcount.ca Fri Aug 5 08:55:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2193C21F8C20 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.011, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ipi8Z7fvvSZO for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2A221F8C11 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [216.235.14.38]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p75FtnmA009387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:55:50 -0700 Received: from [2001:4900:1042:100:a011:8b33:a54d:282b] by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1QpMkS-000HTo-5F; Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:55:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 11:55:36 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2BC8F2C9-39E3-449F-BEFA-B6410EE25476@hopcount.ca> References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4GFGV5D9W00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <4E3B17BB.7050705@dcrocker.net> <4E3B9582.8000601@gmx.de> <60DA4438-5629-45AA-A96E-47BE8CACEC37@vpnc.org> <4E3C08D4.8080609@gmx.de> <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> To: Paul Hoffman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:4900:1042:100:a011:8b33:a54d:282b X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:55:43 -0000 On 2011-08-05, at 11:40, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 5, 2011, at 8:14 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> On 2011-08-05 16:59, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>> On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>> You can simply add a below the. >>>=20 >>> Or at the end of the Introduction (which seems to be more typical). >>>=20 >>> --Paul Hoffman >>=20 >> If it's more typical then maybe because people do not realize they = can add a . :-) >=20 > Semantically, it belongs in the introductory material, not the = abstract material. Material that is only in the abstract and not in the = body of the document is not an abstract. I like to include an appendix in drafts which provides some crude = revision history, clearly marked at the start "This section (and = following sub-sections) should be removed before publication". That's = where I include a suggestion for the venue for discussion, if there is = clear advice to give. My thinking is that anybody who wants to comment on the draft seriously = is probably going to review the history before they say anything, and so = they'll see the note. I appreciate this is not easily machine-readable, but since we're = talking about comments by humans rather than comments by machines this = does not seem like a big loss. Joe= From johnl@iecc.com Fri Aug 5 09:00:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C3421F8C13 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:00:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.614 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.614 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.585, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xv7Xm8GVgYA4 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B054721F8C09 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 54625 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2011 16:00:46 -0000 Received: from gal.iecc.com (64.57.183.53) by mail2.iecc.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2011 16:00:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3921 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2011 16:00:45 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2011 16:00:45 -0000 Date: 5 Aug 2011 16:00:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20110805160023.41543.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: xml2rfc@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <00426A94-D69F-4CB6-9F0D-6C2AA8B07B7D@vpnc.org> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 16:00:34 -0000 >Semantically, it belongs in the introductory material, not the abstract >material. Material that is only in the abstract and not in the body of >the document is not an abstract. Then why not define and have xml2rfc and its friends turn it into a sentence in the introductory part? We already have lots of other places where the order of items in the XML is different from that in the formatted versions. R's, John From julian.reschke@gmx.de Fri Aug 5 09:26:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E319B21F8C13 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:26:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.439 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.439 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.840, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ym6MYic5Jl+I for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F2CDA21F8C11 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Aug 2011 16:20:18 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.140]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 05 Aug 2011 18:20:18 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+LdWtAicaL8VeE32Ho61bA7tSgGZAOnVvHgl4dda Ud8c9NxIWMbKAq Message-ID: <4E3C183D.5090706@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:20:13 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Levine References: <20110805160023.41543.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20110805160023.41543.qmail@joyce.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 16:26:44 -0000 On 2011-08-05 18:00, John Levine wrote: >> Semantically, it belongs in the introductory material, not the abstract >> material. Material that is only in the abstract and not in the body of >> the document is not an abstract. > > Then why not define and have xml2rfc and its friends > turn it into a sentence in the introductory part? We already have > lots of other places where the order of items in the XML is different > from that in the formatted versions. We can allow people to put it wherever they want and still mark it up... From ned.freed@mrochek.com Sat Aug 6 17:49:14 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E60821F85B8 for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:49:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.426 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.426 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.989, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QOnzP61CQNuN for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C681F21F8509 for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [66.59.230.40]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p770nXTU008337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:49:35 -0700 Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O4JEDKXSDS010ORG@mauve.mrochek.com> for xml2rfc@xml.resource.org; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O4CJSMR6GG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 17:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-id: <01O4JEDJHJJG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 17:44:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:52:51 -0700" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> To: Paul Hoffman DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1312678047; bh=tQ53h9TNAi4c0t6NOQoU75gKW22DHCujNvynB5jXQ88=; h=Cc:Message-id:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:MIME-version: Content-type:References:To; b=ocVz0SySVpXEEhS9ow2LBr2qj2ym4bRMoMRXmIeLo8KvPXXGwE9pXO44SQPKCgzic lI4oAtdYS7hqIiyUwlEFs9EDKkmdXOxh+dyN3RY7H2p83F3pTzmOsAzINjtA6syCe5 MryUr/NthSr5UtFS4yVxFUYwmHvHQqlOzg2M234c= Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 00:49:14 -0000 > -1 to this as an XML element. It would freeze both the position in the > document and probably limit the introductory text. The latter is important for > non-WG documents that the author wants discussed on a WG mailing list. Please explain how having an element defined for this would necessarily have any impact on other document content, because I for one am not seeing any such limitation. > The idea of having this in drafts is fairly important; it should be > encouraged in the IETF. However, that can be done simply by encouraging (or > maybe forcing by ADs who are presented with individual submissions). And so is the idea of being able to extract this information mechanically and use it in, say, I-D announcements. won't work for this unless you intend to reserve it's use for this function, which sure seems like a bad idea to me. It also makes it automatic suppression of the information without actually removing it from the XML possible when the document goes to RFC. I like automating such things since relying on people to do it often results in screwups. Ned From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Sat Aug 6 20:21:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB0F21F84FC for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.168 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.168 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.331, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a1LQMTi7-DpC for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6815521F84F4 for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p773M8uZ012782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:22:09 -0700 Received: from [10.20.30.101] (50-0-66-4.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.0.66.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p773Lfe1057664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:21:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <01O4JEDJHJJG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:22:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <269CF899-5A28-4FA7-B645-B567A301EA1B@vpnc.org> References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4JEDJHJJG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> To: xml2rfc X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 03:21:49 -0000 On Aug 6, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Ned Freed wrote: >> -1 to this as an XML element. It would freeze both the position in = the >> document and probably limit the introductory text. The latter is = important for >> non-WG documents that the author wants discussed on a WG mailing = list. >=20 > Please explain how having an element defined for this would = necessarily have > any impact on other document content, because I for one am not seeing > any such limitation. >=20 >> The idea of having this in drafts is fairly important; it should be >> encouraged in the IETF. However, that can be done simply by = encouraging (or >> maybe forcing by ADs who are presented with individual submissions). >=20 > And so is the idea of being able to extract this information = mechanically and > use it in, say, I-D announcements. How can the information be extracted = unless it is in the document content? We still do not require XML for = input. Further, people have disagreed that the information should be part of = I-D announcements. > won't work for this unless you intend > to reserve it's use for this function, which sure seems like a bad = idea to > me. Agree. > It also makes it automatic suppression of the information without = actually > removing it from the XML possible when the document goes to RFC. I = like > automating such things since relying on people to do it often results > in screwups. And I like assuming that the RFC Editor staff will find such things and = ask the authors whether or not they intended to leave them in the RFC. = In some cases, they probably *do* want to leave the mailing list in the = RFC. --Paul Hoffman From ned.freed@mrochek.com Sat Aug 6 20:32:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8867B21F857E for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.941, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7O4N7emH74lM for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yard.public.resource.org (unknown [192.101.98.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98C821F855F for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [66.59.230.40]) by yard.public.resource.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id p773Wr79013032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:32:55 -0700 Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O4JK338EC000YA1K@mauve.mrochek.com> for xml2rfc@xml.resource.org; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01O4CJSMR6GG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sat, 6 Aug 2011 20:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-id: <01O4JK31KUQ600VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 20:27:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sat, 06 Aug 2011 20:22:00 -0700" <269CF899-5A28-4FA7-B645-B567A301EA1B@vpnc.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN References: <4E3AD05D.2020304@bbiw.net> <01O4JEDJHJJG00VHKR@mauve.mrochek.com> <269CF899-5A28-4FA7-B645-B567A301EA1B@vpnc.org> To: Paul Hoffman DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1312687847; bh=CTkkYIPEzdCHtIsSk+ZFfdbn4/k20g/VeO1WsxD+6fQ=; h=Cc:Message-id:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:MIME-version: Content-type:References:To; b=H3IBVBfabKbXcoK/Cos10xoax4diEHnMmGY28883dnjHfR0cXFOO4S4E/31wey+kd lHLk1QejGM5xwm+pmM05qeAcFOioLWLp44ggPAgV7r7X7hSUmGR782HoZd3JpjO5wY iE4huVqg9yln06DTLnhb9ep4oE3K4j5+1fMPLRRQ= Cc: xml2rfc Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] construct X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 03:32:34 -0000 > On Aug 6, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Ned Freed wrote: > >> -1 to this as an XML element. It would freeze both the position in the > >> document and probably limit the introductory text. The latter is important for > >> non-WG documents that the author wants discussed on a WG mailing list. > > > > Please explain how having an element defined for this would necessarily have > > any impact on other document content, because I for one am not seeing > > any such limitation. > > > >> The idea of having this in drafts is fairly important; it should be > >> encouraged in the IETF. However, that can be done simply by encouraging (or > >> maybe forcing by ADs who are presented with individual submissions). > > > > And so is the idea of being able to extract this information mechanically and > > use it in, say, I-D announcements. > How can the information be extracted unless it > is in the document content? We still do not require XML for input. Pretty simple: The information is taken from the element and placed in a well known location in the output text. We already extract a bunch of stuff from drafts in this fashion. Actually, I hope that at some point providing the XML on submission (which is currently supported) will allow extraction of all of this stuff directly from the XML, since the current scraping code doesn't always work quite correctly. (It has difficulty finding the end of the abstract, for one thing.) > Further, people have disagreed that the information should be part of I-D > announcements. Sounds pretty darned silly to me. What's the reasoning? > > won't work for this unless you intend > > to reserve it's use for this function, which sure seems like a bad idea to > > me. > Agree. > > It also makes it automatic suppression of the information without actually > > removing it from the XML possible when the document goes to RFC. I like > > automating such things since relying on people to do it often results > > in screwups. > And I like assuming that the RFC Editor staff will find such things and ask > the authors whether or not they intended to leave them in the RFC. That's a recipe for additional errata. > In some > cases, they probably *do* want to leave the mailing list in the RFC. In which case you put it in the text. Hardly a reason not to do this. Ned From sustrik@250bpm.com Mon Aug 8 01:28:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4BA21F873A for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:28:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185, HELO_EQ_SK=1.35, HOST_EQ_SK=0.555] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nBte6PakbCbr for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.moloch.sk (chrocht.moloch.sk [62.176.169.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6499121F86C7 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.9.1.2] (chello089173046084.chello.sk [89.173.46.84]) by mail.moloch.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4685F180112A for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 10:28:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 10:29:36 +0200 From: Martin Sustrik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110617 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xml2rfc@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [xml2rfc] Multiple authors in reference X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 08:28:23 -0000 Hi all, When using and the document I am referencing has say 20 authors. Is there a way to fill in the field as "John Doe et al" or do I have to list all the 20 authors? Thanks! Martin From randy@psg.com Mon Aug 8 02:02:59 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D978021F8AB8 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 02:02:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.109, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0aWg2vovEeL5 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 02:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC6421F8AB0 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 02:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rair.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1QqLk3-000LOT-0E; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:03:23 +0000 Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 18:03:22 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Martin Sustrik In-Reply-To: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> References: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple authors in reference X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:03:00 -0000 > When using and the document I am referencing has say 20 > authors. Is there a way to fill in the field as "John Doe et > al" or do I have to list all the 20 authors? above five, the rfced's deal with the iesg is that the masthead lists an editor and all the rest are in a Contributors or Authors section randy From julian.reschke@gmx.de Mon Aug 8 02:12:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0EAA21F8586 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 02:12:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.577, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t+ZFS2fq8ANq for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 02:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B21E21F84F6 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 02:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Aug 2011 09:13:08 -0000 Received: from p508FA781.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.36]) [80.143.167.129] by mail.gmx.net (mp051) with SMTP; 08 Aug 2011 11:13:08 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/yyUwV09PyET3gFtGRR/+vLD1XqaiqJB+SXQj1bK NhQ1h2RrM45mnC Message-ID: <4E3FA89E.9080602@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:13:02 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Sustrik References: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> In-Reply-To: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple authors in reference X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:12:55 -0000 On 2011-08-08 10:29, Martin Sustrik wrote: > Hi all, > > When using and the document I am referencing has say 20 > authors. Is there a way to fill in the field as "John Doe et > al" or do I have to list all the 20 authors? > ... I don't think there's a way to get "...et al" in xml2rfc (for ). Best regards, Julian From sustrik@250bpm.com Mon Aug 8 03:13:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFAF21F8ABD for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 03:13:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.603, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SK=1.35, HOST_EQ_SK=0.555] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vg74ZhM5wQ4i for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 03:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.moloch.sk (chrocht.moloch.sk [62.176.169.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AEE421F8A7D for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 03:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.9.1.2] (chello089173046084.chello.sk [89.173.46.84]) by mail.moloch.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B7D6180112A; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:13:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4E3FB6E2.3060200@250bpm.com> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:13:54 +0200 From: Martin Sustrik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110617 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush References: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple authors in reference X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 10:13:03 -0000 On 08/08/2011 11:03 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> When using and the document I am referencing has say 20 >> authors. Is there a way to fill in the field as "John Doe et >> al" or do I have to list all the 20 authors? > > above five, the rfced's deal with the iesg is that the masthead lists an > editor and all the rest are in a Contributors or Authors section So, does that mean I have to list only the editor, in the section? Thanks, Martin From julian.reschke@gmx.de Mon Aug 8 03:18:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E7421F8A71 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 03:18:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.397 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.397 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.798, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BtTw4g9N8uNc for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 03:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8305621F8A70 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2011 03:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Aug 2011 10:19:08 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.140]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp016) with SMTP; 08 Aug 2011 12:19:08 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/x3ilOq+PxqlJ26Qmoxu+hcXNPcgeg7ouE6xTP2o 2CGZV3n6k/Tntw Message-ID: <4E3FB818.10500@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:19:04 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Sustrik References: <4E3F9E70.6080204@250bpm.com> <4E3FB6E2.3060200@250bpm.com> In-Reply-To: <4E3FB6E2.3060200@250bpm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: xml2rfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple authors in reference X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: