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To: citations@rfc-editor.org
From: Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>
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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:46:38 -0700
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Subject: [xml2rfc] request for anchor query magic
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To Citations:

I have a further request, that you add some server side code for "anchor =

query magic".

Right now, reference anchors like "ITU.X690.1994" are fixed and ugly.=20
Please enable substitution query logic, such that the anchor can be=20
manipulated by GET request. For example:

http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml2/reference.ITU.X.690.2015.xml?a=
nchor=3DX.690

When the resource is GET-ted, the anchor parameter substitutes the=20
anchor in at <reference anchor=3D"%ANCHOR%">. In a safe way, of course.=20
This would be really helpful, especially for things like=20
Internet-Drafts, which have really ugly anchor names by default. When=20
the anchor query is not present, it just returns the default,=20
unsubstituted resource data.

For example:

http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-urnbi=
s-rfc2141bis-urn-16.xml

could be:

http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-urnbi=
s-rfc2141bis-urn-16.xml?anchor=3DURNBIS

etc.

Thank you,

Sean



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To: Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>, citations@rfc-editor.org
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] request for anchor query magic
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On 2016-06-08 18:46, Sean Leonard wrote:
> To Citations:
>
> I have a further request, that you add some server side code for "anchor
> query magic".
>
> Right now, reference anchors like "ITU.X690.1994" are fixed and ugly.
> Please enable substitution query logic, such that the anchor can be
> manipulated by GET request. For example:
>
> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml2/reference.ITU.X.690.2015.xml?anchor=X.690
>
>
> When the resource is GET-ted, the anchor parameter substitutes the
> anchor in at <reference anchor="%ANCHOR%">. In a safe way, of course.
> This would be really helpful, especially for things like
> Internet-Drafts, which have really ugly anchor names by default. When
> the anchor query is not present, it just returns the default,
> unsubstituted resource data.
>
> For example:
>
> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-urnbis-rfc2141bis-urn-16.xml
>
>
> could be:
>
> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-urnbis-rfc2141bis-urn-16.xml?anchor=URNBIS
>
>
> etc.

FWIW; we tried to address this use case in the v3 vocab with 
<https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-iab-xml2rfc-03.html#element.displayreference>.

What you propose of course would work right away, but would make the 
server side implementation more tricky with respect to caching / serving 
static files...

Best regards, Julian



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Subject: [xml2rfc] tab character warnings
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I am seeing xml2rfc reporting warnings about tab characters:

WARNING: Text around line 169 contains tab characters.  These will be 
expanded, assuming a tab-size of 8.

I'm pretty sure it didn't do this a year ago when I last worked with 
this particular xml file.

The warning would be fine if it was material to the output. But in all 
the cases in question it is not. The tabs are simply indenting xml 
elements in the source, and they aren't within <t>, so they are simply 
noise.

Very annoying. Is there a good reason for it doing this?

	Thanks,
	Paul


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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tab character warnings
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On 2016-06-08 22:47, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> I am seeing xml2rfc reporting warnings about tab characters:
>
> WARNING: Text around line 169 contains tab characters.  These will be
> expanded, assuming a tab-size of 8.
>
> I'm pretty sure it didn't do this a year ago when I last worked with
> this particular xml file.
>
> The warning would be fine if it was material to the output. But in all
> the cases in question it is not. The tabs are simply indenting xml
> elements in the source, and they aren't within <t>, so they are simply
> noise.
>
> Very annoying. Is there a good reason for it doing this?
>
>     Thanks,
>     Paul

TABs are harnless except in elements where whitespace is significant 
(currently <artwork> only).

On the other hand, warning early might be the right thing to do; the 
safest approach is to avoid them altogether. But then...


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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>, citations@rfc-editor.org
References: <6baa4c16-af05-1117-e07a-ec6d6372fa3f@seantek.com> <c4023b14-2cf3-ea9c-a714-3c595db08f25@greenbytes.de>
From: Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>
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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 23:41:15 -0700
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] request for anchor query magic
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On 6/8/2016 11:15 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 2016-06-08 18:46, Sean Leonard wrote:
>> To Citations:
>>
>> I have a further request, that you add some server side code for "anch=
or
>> query magic".
>>
>> Right now, reference anchors like "ITU.X690.1994" are fixed and ugly.
>> Please enable substitution query logic, such that the anchor can be
>> manipulated by GET request. For example:
>>
>> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml2/reference.ITU.X.690.2015.xm=
l?anchor=3DX.690=20
>>
>>
>>
>> When the resource is GET-ted, the anchor parameter substitutes the
>> anchor in at <reference anchor=3D"%ANCHOR%">. In a safe way, of course=
=2E
>> This would be really helpful, especially for things like
>> Internet-Drafts, which have really ugly anchor names by default. When
>> the anchor query is not present, it just returns the default,
>> unsubstituted resource data.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-ur=
nbis-rfc2141bis-urn-16.xml=20
>>
>>
>>
>> could be:
>>
>> http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-ur=
nbis-rfc2141bis-urn-16.xml?anchor=3DURNBIS=20
>>
>>
>>
>> etc.
>
> FWIW; we tried to address this use case in the v3 vocab with=20
> <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-iab-xml2rfc-03.html#element.di=
splayreference>.
>
> What you propose of course would work right away, but would make the=20
> server side implementation more tricky with respect to caching /=20
> serving static files...

Ok, thanks for the tip. I think that the "query magic" may serve the=20
purpose that displayreference does, while being more elegant. Actually=20
the underlying problem is that while the rest of the <reference> matter=20
is pretty invariant, the @anchor attribute represents more of an=20
author's local preference (@anchor was and is never intended to be a=20
globally unique string). So it's a bit of a data model problem. Maybe it =

would have made some sense to have the entity reference be the contents=20
of the <reference>, such as:
<reference anchor=3D"foo">&RFC5555contents;</reference>

But, that ship sailed away a long time ago.

Can't say much about the caching/serving issue, except that it's pretty=20
well-studied computer science territory, so it's doable.

Best regards,

Sean


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To: Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>, citations@rfc-editor.org
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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On 2016-06-09 08:41, Sean Leonard wrote:
> ...
> Ok, thanks for the tip. I think that the "query magic" may serve the
> purpose that displayreference does, while being more elegant. Actually
> the underlying problem is that while the rest of the <reference> matter
> is pretty invariant, the @anchor attribute represents more of an
> author's local preference (@anchor was and is never intended to be a
> globally unique string). So it's a bit of a data model problem. Maybe it
> would have made some sense to have the entity reference be the contents
> of the <reference>, such as:
> <reference anchor="foo">&RFC5555contents;</reference>
>
> But, that ship sailed away a long time ago.

Well, those files could be served as well (as static files), but then 
we'd lose the target attribute.

> Can't say much about the caching/serving issue, except that it's pretty
> well-studied computer science territory, so it's doable.

It is. Maybe you want to assist the tools team to get this implemented 
properly? I'm all for it...

Best regards, Julian


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From: Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>
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On 6/8/2016 11:49 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 2016-06-09 08:41, Sean Leonard wrote:
>> ...
>> Ok, thanks for the tip. I think that the "query magic" may serve the
>> purpose that displayreference does, while being more elegant. Actually
>> the underlying problem is that while the rest of the <reference> matter
>> is pretty invariant, the @anchor attribute represents more of an
>> author's local preference (@anchor was and is never intended to be a
>> globally unique string). So it's a bit of a data model problem. Maybe it
>> would have made some sense to have the entity reference be the contents
>> of the <reference>, such as:
>> <reference anchor="foo">&RFC5555contents;</reference>
>>
>> But, that ship sailed away a long time ago.
>
> Well, those files could be served as well (as static files), but then 
> we'd lose the target attribute.

Yes. A data model issue. I still don't quite understand the practical 
differences between @target and <format> in <reference>.

Except that <format> is deprecated in xml2rfc v3...this would have been 
a good reason to shift the deprecation around...oh well...

>
>> Can't say much about the caching/serving issue, except that it's pretty
>> well-studied computer science territory, so it's doable.
>
> It is. Maybe you want to assist the tools team to get this implemented 
> properly? I'm all for it...

I suppose I can help, assuming that there is sufficient consensus that 
this is a good idea and is useful to various parties.

Best regards,

Sean


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#69: Allow column header alignment that differs from column content alignment

Changes (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


-- 
--------------------------------------+--------------------
  Reporter:  tterriberry@mozilla.com  |      Owner:
      Type:  enhancement              |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  major                    |  Milestone:
 Component:  vocabulary               |    Version:
Resolution:  fixed                    |   Keywords:
--------------------------------------+--------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/69#comment:2>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#69: Allow column header alignment that differs from column content alignment


Comment (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):

 Available for <table>.

-- 
--------------------------------------+--------------------
  Reporter:  tterriberry@mozilla.com  |      Owner:
      Type:  enhancement              |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  major                    |  Milestone:
 Component:  vocabulary               |    Version:
Resolution:  fixed                    |   Keywords:
--------------------------------------+--------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/69#comment:3>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#28: better tools for references

Changes (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


Comment:

 See <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-iab-
 xml2rfc-03.html#element.refcontent>

-- 
---------------------------+--------------------
  Reporter:  tony@att.com  |      Owner:
      Type:  enhancement   |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  minor         |  Milestone:
 Component:  vocabulary    |    Version:
Resolution:  fixed         |   Keywords:
---------------------------+--------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/28#comment:3>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#140: make <date/> optional

Changes (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


Comment:

 It is now optional, see <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-iab-
 xml2rfc-03.html#element.front>.

-- 
------------------------------------+--------------------
  Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
      Type:  enhancement            |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  medium                 |  Milestone:
 Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.3.10
Resolution:  fixed                  |   Keywords:
------------------------------------+--------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/140#comment:3>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#36: <email> cardinality


Comment (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):

 Looking at my collection of RFCs, this seems to be used now and then;

 rfc4844.unpg:   EMail: ledaigle@cisco.com, leslie@thinkingcat.com
 rfc4845.unpg:   EMail: ledaigle@cisco.com, leslie@thinkingcat.com
 rfc5741.unpg:   EMail: daigle@isoc.org, leslie@thinkingcat.com
 rfc6185.unpg:   EMail: tom.kristensen@tandberg.com, tomkri@ifi.uio.no
 rfc7269.unpg:   EMail: chengang@chinamobile.com, phdgang@gmail.com
 rfc7269.unpg:   EMail: caozhen@chinamobile.com, zehn.cao@gmail.com
 rfc7445.unpg:   EMail: phdgang@gmail.com, chengang@chinamobile.com

-- 
------------------------------------+-----------------
  Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
      Type:  defect                 |     Status:  new
  Priority:  major                  |  Milestone:
 Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:
Resolution:                         |   Keywords:
------------------------------------+-----------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/36#comment:1>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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Subject: [xml2rfc] References and book chapters
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Hi.

I'm not following this list closely, but I note that the
resolution of #28 to add <refcontent> "to prevent the need to
abuse <seriesInfo>", solves only part of the problem.   A
different, but relevant, case involves references to a chapter
of a book, in it most general (and difficult) form, a book that
is actually a compendium, requiring a reference that is
something like

	Knight, S., "The Roman Alphabet", Section 24 in P.T.
	Daniels and W. Bright, The World's Writing Systems,
	Oxford University Press: 1996.

With the Section (or Chapter) number, where to put it (if at
all), page numbers and where to put them (if at all) being a
style manual issue.  For eventual pretty-printing, "The World's
Writing Systems" is usually required to be in italics.

While we don't often cite book chapters in RFCs, it does happen
and happen often enough that I've lost count of how many times
I've had this problem and had to sort it out with the RFC Editor
at AUTH48 in the nroff.  One can fake it by abusing <seriesInfo>
or, now, by abusing <refcontent>, but sensible use of generic
markup suggests that the author list, title, etc., for the book
should be separately marked up with seriesInfo used, at most,
for the publisher and maybe date information.  

The most obvious way to do that would be to allow nesting
<reference>, perhaps with some special argument, inside
<reference> but note that a chapter of a book that doesn't have
separate authorship would not be listed with authors for the
book itself, e.g.,

	Phunny, K., "On Being A Fool", Chapter 5 of _Fools,
	Idiots, and the Merely Misguided_, April 2000.

Note also that deprecating seriesInfo in the context of
<reference> eliminates its primary intended use, e.g.,

	Codd, E. F., "A relational model of data for large
	shared data banks", Communications of the ACM 13(6), p. 377,
1970

So, again, one either needs to abuse the new element --and avoid
markup of the journal title and volume, issue, and page
information separately--  of seriesInfo is actually useful.  

best,
   john


p.s. If one were striving for consistency with the naming
conventions of RFC 2629 (which would seem to be reasonable
practice to avoid making users crazy whether one likes those
conventions or not), "refcontent" should probably be spelled
"refContent".


  ------

># 28: better tools for references
> 
> Changes (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):
> 
>  * status:  new => closed
>  * resolution:   => fixed
> 
> Comment:
> 
>  See <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-iab-
>  xml2rfc-03.html#element.refcontent>


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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] References and book chapters
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On 2016-06-22 23:16, John C Klensin wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I'm not following this list closely, but I note that the
> resolution of #28 to add <refcontent> "to prevent the need to
> abuse <seriesInfo>", solves only part of the problem.   A
> different, but relevant, case involves references to a chapter
> of a book, in it most general (and difficult) form, a book that
> is actually a compendium, requiring a reference that is
> something like
>
> 	Knight, S., "The Roman Alphabet", Section 24 in P.T.
> 	Daniels and W. Bright, The World's Writing Systems,
> 	Oxford University Press: 1996.
>
> With the Section (or Chapter) number, where to put it (if at
> all), page numbers and where to put them (if at all) being a
> style manual issue.  For eventual pretty-printing, "The World's
> Writing Systems" is usually required to be in italics.
>
> While we don't often cite book chapters in RFCs, it does happen
> and happen often enough that I've lost count of how many times
> I've had this problem and had to sort it out with the RFC Editor
> at AUTH48 in the nroff.  One can fake it by abusing <seriesInfo>
> or, now, by abusing <refcontent>, but sensible use of generic
> markup suggests that the author list, title, etc., for the book
> should be separately marked up with seriesInfo used, at most,
> for the publisher and maybe date information.
>
> The most obvious way to do that would be to allow nesting
> <reference>, perhaps with some special argument, inside
> <reference> but note that a chapter of a book that doesn't have
> separate authorship would not be listed with authors for the
> book itself, e.g.,
>
> 	Phunny, K., "On Being A Fool", Chapter 5 of _Fools,
> 	Idiots, and the Merely Misguided_, April 2000.
>
> Note also that deprecating seriesInfo in the context of
> <reference> eliminates its primary intended use, e.g.,
> ...

FWIW, it's deprecated because it moved inside <front> (a change I think 
that isn't needed).

Best regards, Julian


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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:14:03 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
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--On Thursday, June 23, 2016 08:45 +0200 Julian Reschke
<julian.reschke@greenbytes.de> wrote:

>> Note also that deprecating seriesInfo in the context of
>> <reference> eliminates its primary intended use, e.g.,
>> ...
> 
> FWIW, it's deprecated because it moved inside <front> (a
> change I think that isn't needed).

Julian,

Thanks.  While I can see the rationale for this, I agree that it
isn't needed.  Speaking on behalf of at least some of us who
will need to learn a new system, I strongly encourage making
only those changes that are justified by necessity, not merely
some ideas of aesthetics or the equivalent.   

I note the number of members of the community who haven't ever
adopted xml2rfc (v1 or v2) because of difficulties in learning
it and fear that a lot of changes that are not strongly
motivated (or a perceived increase in complexity) may reduce v3
adoption.  Any one of these changes may be trivial (moving
seriesInfo certainly is), but they may cumulatively be a barrier
to entry.  Given the idea of xml source as the archival format
for the RFC series, lower adoption and use of v3 could create
significantly more work for the RFC Production Center with
staffing and budgetary implications for which the community may
not be fully prepared.

I'm not arguing for "no change" -- I think many of the new
elements and attributes will be very helpful (and are long
overdue).  I am more concerned about moving things around or
changing ways of doing things without the strong motivation that
exists for many of those new features.  Some of the new elements
also seem to me to be very close to the boundary between generic
and format markup.  Crossing that boundary could be a long-term
problem with the idea of a single (and archival) source format
and multiple (and potentially evolving) output/target formats.

Along the same lines, while I see the advantages to people
writing documents of making more subsidiary elements unordered,
order is easy to diagnose in a processor and correct but layers
of unordered elements makes construction of tools to analyze and
extract information from documents more difficult.  I hope those
tradeoffs, especially for homebrew or ad hoc tools, are being
considered carefully.

Finally, this experience has reinforced my concern about another
issue: the advantages of the schema description form with
alphabetized element definitions over the DTD one are obvious.
However, it makes it much harder to figure out what is going on
and how to actually write and structure a document.  One might
think about the difference as similar to the one between trying
to learn a new language from tutorials and examples rather than
being handed a dictionary.

   best,
    john






From nobody Fri Jun 24 01:52:06 2016
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Hi,
I have a problem with the references libraries used by xml2rfc.
Since they're now fetched while formatting, they usually Just Work - but
I have some problems.

I fetched bibxml4 manually, and found the following references there:

reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20120628.xml
reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20130516.xml
reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20130903.xml
reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20150212.xml
reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20150414.xml

But the newest WD for mediacapture-streams shoud be 19 May 2016, as
visible at https://www.w3.org/TR/mediacapture-streams/

(we're now using Echidna, so WD publication is automatic every time a
new editors' draft is pushed)

Who owns this problem?

Harald


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#319: remove <tfoot>

 It's not clear that we need <tfoot>. In HTML it's used for information
 that will repeat at the end of the table (on each page, when paginating).

-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------
 Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
     Type:  enhancement            |     Status:  new
 Priority:  medium                 |  Milestone:
Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.4.x
 Keywords:                         |
-----------------------------------+-------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/319>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#320: make <tbody> optional

 V2's <texttable> allows tables that only consist of headers, and I've seen
 that used in a few RFCs (last time I checked for: (a) examples of tables,
 such as template for an IANA registry, (b) for simple diagrams).

-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------
 Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
     Type:  enhancement            |     Status:  new
 Priority:  medium                 |  Milestone:
Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.4.x
 Keywords:                         |
-----------------------------------+-------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/320>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#321: moving <seriesInfo> not needed

 <seriesInfo> was moved into <front> so that it can be used for the
 document itself as well.

 Disadvantages:

 - we need a new set of citation libraries
 - or we need to clearly state what it means when it's present both under
 <reference> and <front>

 Proposal: restore v2 in that it's on <reference> and add it as direct
 child element of <rfc>.

-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------
 Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
     Type:  enhancement            |     Status:  new
 Priority:  medium                 |  Milestone:
Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.4.x
 Keywords:                         |
-----------------------------------+-------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/321>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#322: need "isCodeComponent" attribute

 There should be a way to mark artwork/sourcecode to contain a "code
 component" in the sense of
 <https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/copyright.html>, as proposed in
 <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt/rfc2629xslt.html#ext-
 rfc2629.artwork>.

-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------
 Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
     Type:  enhancement            |     Status:  new
 Priority:  medium                 |  Milestone:
Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.4.x
 Keywords:                         |
-----------------------------------+-------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/322>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#323: <referencegroup> vs RFC style requirements

 I don't believe <referencegroup> as currently defined in the vocab and
 HTML specs addresses the RFC Style requirement for citing BCPs/STDs.

 Either we need to fix <referencegroup> or change/clarify the RFC Style
 document.

-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------
 Reporter:  julian.reschke@gmx.de  |      Owner:
     Type:  defect                 |     Status:  new
 Priority:  medium                 |  Milestone:
Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.4.x
 Keywords:                         |
-----------------------------------+-------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/323>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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#324: need a way to horizontally align <table>s

 This was possible in v2 with texttable/@align.

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Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/324>
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#323: <referencegroup> vs RFC style requirements


Comment (by julian.reschke@gmx.de):

 See https://www.rfc-editor.org/pipermail/rfc-
 interest/2016-April/009562.html

-- 
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 Component:  vocabulary             |    Version:  2.4.x
Resolution:                         |   Keywords:
------------------------------------+-------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/323#comment:1>
xml2rfc <http://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/>


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From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>
To: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Problem with citation libraries
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From nobody Sat Jun 25 22:51:35 2016
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From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 07:51:22 +0200
To: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>,"xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Problem with citation libraries
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Hmm.... we published a couple of wd after the cr. But the cr reference will do.

Den 25. juni 2016 20:08:33 CEST, skrev "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>:
>Harald, that doc moved from being a WD to a CR, so look for
>
>       reference.W3C.CR-mediacapture-streams-20160519.xml
>
>“CR-mediacapture-streams-20160519” is W3C’s official name for this
>version.
>
>	Tony Hansen
>
>PS. Both Henrik and I watch over this set of tools.
>
>On 6/24/16, 4:51 AM, "xml2rfc on behalf of Harald Alvestrand"
><xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of harald@alvestrand.no> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>I have a problem with the references libraries used by xml2rfc.
>Since they're now fetched while formatting, they usually Just Work -
>but
>I have some problems.
>
>I fetched bibxml4 manually, and found the following references there:
>
>reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20120628.xml
>reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20130516.xml
>reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20130903.xml
>reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20150212.xml
>reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20150414.xml
>
>But the newest WD for mediacapture-streams shoud be 19 May 2016, as
>visible at https://www.w3.org/TR/mediacapture-streams/
>
>(we're now using Echidna, so WD publication is automatic every time a
>new editors' draft is pushed)
>
>Who owns this problem?
>
>Harald
>
>_______________________________________________
>xml2rfc mailing list
>xml2rfc@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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<html><head></head><body>Hmm.... we published a couple of wd after the cr. But the cr reference will do.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Den 25. juni 2016 20:08:33 CEST, skrev &quot;HANSEN, TONY L&quot; &lt;tony@att.com&gt;:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Harald, that doc moved from being a WD to a CR, so look for<br /><br />       reference.W3C.CR-mediacapture-streams-20160519.xml<br /><br />“CR-mediacapture-streams-20160519” is W3C’s official name for this version.<br /><br /> Tony Hansen<br /><br />PS. Both Henrik and I watch over this set of tools.<br /><br />On 6/24/16, 4:51 AM, "xml2rfc on behalf of Harald Alvestrand" &lt;xml2rfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of harald@alvestrand.no&gt; wrote:<br /><br />Hi,<br />I have a problem with the references libraries used by xml2rfc.<br />Since they're now fetched while formatting, they usually Just Work - but<br />I have some problems.<br /><br />I fetched bibxml4 manually, and found the following references there:<br /><br />reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20120628.xml<br />reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20130516.xml<br />reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20130903.xml<br />reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20150212.xml<br
/>reference.W3C.WD-mediacapture-streams-20150414.xml<br /><br />But the newest WD for mediacapture-streams shoud be 19 May 2016, as<br />visible at <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/mediacapture-streams">https://www.w3.org/TR/mediacapture-streams</a>/<br /><br />(we're now using Echidna, so WD publication is automatic every time a<br />new editors' draft is pushed)<br /><br />Who owns this problem?<br /><br />Harald<br /><br /><hr /><br />xml2rfc mailing list<br />xml2rfc@ietf.org<br /><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc</a><br /><br /><br /></pre></blockquote></div><br>
-- <br>
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</body></html>
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From nobody Sun Jun 26 00:56:20 2016
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To: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Problem with citation libraries
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On 2016-06-26 07:51, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> Hmm.... we published a couple of wd after the cr. But the cr reference
> will do.
> ...


There is no current WD-mediacapture-streams* in 
<http://www.w3.org/2002/01/tr-automation/tr.rdf>, so the problem seems 
to be on the W3C side...

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Sun Jun 26 18:17:03 2016
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From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From nobody Tue Jun 28 20:24:46 2016
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From: Sean Leonard <dev+ietf@seantek.com>
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Subject: [xml2rfc] Filling out templates in XML
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Just curious if people have thought about using XML elements to fill out =

templates, in xml2rfc, rather than sticking the template instance in an=20
artwork blob.

Consider <draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-14.xml> (which I just reviewed).=20
In #media-types, the RFC 6838 templates are instantiated as artwork.=20
Wouldn't it be better to put the things in some basic XML blocks? I have =

seen very long registration templates elsewhere, like URNs and URIs,=20
that can spill over to multiple pages. It would be helpful if these=20
could be treated (at least in part) as regular runs of text so that they =

are subject to page breaking automatically, etc.

There is a temptation to over-specify the details of every registration=20
template. Perhaps a quick survey could be done, to see some common=20
IETF/IANA registration templates, and if there is enough common to them=20
to permit a small handful of elements. 6 elements or less, I would say.=20
For example:

<instance schema=3D"RFC6838">
   <field name=3D"Type name">application</field>
   <field name=3D"Subtype name">yang-data+xml</field>
   <field name=3D"Required parameters">none</field>
   ...
   <field name=3D"Security considerations"><t>Security considerations rel=
ated
       to the generation and consumption of RESTCONF messages
       are discussed in Section NN of <xref target=3D"RFCXXXX" />.
       Additional security considerations are specific to the
       semantics of particular YANG data models. Each YANG module
       is expected to specify security considerations for the
       YANG data defined in that module.</t>

   <additional>blah blah blah at end of instance</additional>
</instance>

That yields 3 elements: instance, field, and additional.

An alternate approach is to have some XML namespace/schema and embed it=20
in a <figure>, similar to <svg> (in <artwork>) and <sourcecode>. Could=20
get needlessly complex, but would limit arbitrary placement. Depends on=20
whether one feels that registration templates need to be in <figure>=20
elements or not. I believe that template instances can be part of the=20
main specification text (first, because template instances can contain=20
normative specification language; second, because it's possible that=20
template fields might have figures inside); therefore, they should not=20
be required to be in <figure> elements.

Just my 2=C2=A2.

Sean



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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] [media-types] Filling out templates in XML
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On 2016-06-29 05:24, Sean Leonard wrote:
> Just curious if people have thought about using XML elements to fill out
> templates, in xml2rfc, rather than sticking the template instance in an
> artwork blob.
> ...


I have always put registrations either into tables or lists. I agree 
that using artwork is a very bad thing.

Best regards, Julian


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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Umlauts in reference author names
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On 2016-06-29 16:54, Ari Keränen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Xml2rfc seems to get confused now with names with umlauts (like my last name) in references.
>
> For example,in draft-ietf-hip-native-nat-traversal-12 it says:
>>    [I-D.ietf-ice-rfc5245bis]
>>               Ker&#52292;nen, A., Holmberg, C., and J. Rosenberg,
>
> Any ideas how to fix that?

For now, xml2rfc lives in a plain ASCII world. You'll have to substitute 
the "ä" with "ae" or "a" (depends on your locale, I guess).

Best regards, Julian


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On 2016-06-29 18:11, Ari Keränen wrote:
>
>> On 29 Jun 2016, at 19:00, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de> wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-06-29 16:54, Ari Keränen wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Xml2rfc seems to get confused now with names with umlauts (like my last name) in references.
>>>
>>> For example,in draft-ietf-hip-native-nat-traversal-12 it says:
>>>>   [I-D.ietf-ice-rfc5245bis]
>>>>              Ker&#52292;nen, A., Holmberg, C., and J. Rosenberg,
>>>
>>> Any ideas how to fix that?
>>
>> For now, xml2rfc lives in a plain ASCII world. You'll have to substitute the "ä" with "ae" or "a" (depends on your locale, I guess).
>
> Actually, that has been the case for all references up until very recently (it's been "Keranen" in all drafts and RFCs). I wonder if the bibxml files, or how they are handled, have been changed recently?

That is indeed strange.

The ID being referenced is US-ASCII only, but

 
http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-02.xml

has the "ä" in the contact information. Where does this come from?

Best regards, Julian


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From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= <ari.keranen@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [xml2rfc] Umlauts in reference author names
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 03:32:05 +0000
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References: <014DE9C1-B615-442D-892B-40398FFA6DF5@ericsson.com> <0cee814d-266b-5101-a306-3a009b2e3072@greenbytes.de> <009A43B0-CBAA-423D-B82E-D390673B1FD5@ericsson.com> <608ac3c5-758d-72ae-9365-3ff3cc582744@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Umlauts in reference author names
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