From nobody Wed Oct 2 01:00:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741A7120820 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 01:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vwmdknkflKFj for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 01:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com (mail-wm1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D377120807 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 01:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id f22so5860948wmc.2 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 01:00:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=kKwU2PwcgPnllX3gpgOHAy9+gD1dSNhmH20DfzEIuCs=; b=CJH9WDVAMK3jGw7Rn7Blp4MuiHYFgW0KLKCY7xG66C/qFHYTdYdPTZR3EKAW0Oj7b5 4kZc7rr65EEln3wo4q8QsgdGjyHSg5+PGiR7qx9FgwlcEJsUqDMnd+FbXsHuPLY5ka9p ScsUUVKnh8E2ob+EhjnB/nQsycqbVozBHre5xHgf8s9bdJ7BZVILxemPD+LBZ5tcjs+A G+9OEk13kjWImz2nQYW8qLKaC5ZkY/gBJEEjbbDIXZ3snA8elSxxfTMiDqZp3zdIpjd3 bVbUZZ/P440HzG8s59adDC45FT42b+FqlhH1g9Uph1VPmWCQAqznJtlP/ZBJj/Ol52oZ ewmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=kKwU2PwcgPnllX3gpgOHAy9+gD1dSNhmH20DfzEIuCs=; b=NjiiROxFdanm3PEZljLteyoKffbQG+gmMjU5bIzGRsoict956BPavuca9MBce9dgpn 1GEqSfv6uQNgUCGS32tg02xR3+0BkO99fdrwwnBTCMPAKR9eBRoTebfLMNcEZPgfgBxZ sg3hvFUDv39Lxdl7w9Ocper8G1ps8gBOr3Nfd33ZXAfOZVREDbigf5YtxgjXnTxlq6xu C1rHKysOYRhfe7tfC2BebqYt54aRmoL+sfWTGLRtwfujZrWCiug8foxs3P/VM5dq4CBH qmVFXYUf9ORiiFE8H0BKZFr7Thj6apeUpxkzlFsIq21mb1fH+V6lfHcTNsBzjs0p7FnD 13Bg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV+9i09GUzKpzjT2THIQab7kslDo3JKU+OXgd2TJz8hQ31Cgq9c XofGj2MiI2hQcqtAHq1H9+mMzQhX X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz5bMPen/YWx+TZBneNbrcPp0xomkCSyqSTHeuKFE5REMkjoxGFwTMUWxs/jv4sUQ8ACIxjfw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:a90b:: with SMTP id s11mr1854002wme.92.1570003219050; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 01:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f143sm11798696wme.40.2019.10.02.01.00.17 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Oct 2019 01:00:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Anders Rundgren To: xml2rfc@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 10:00:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:00:24 -0000 Hi, The new HTML format is awesome! I do though have some issues with maintaining a good RFC Markup document and an HTML variant using the same XML V3 as input. gives "text" in RFC Markup.  That MAY fit some RFCs but not all. gives *text* in RFC Markup. That MAY fit a few RFCs. I think you should add an optional modifier. Another issue related to document format specific renderings is . In RFC Markup you are limited to "line art" but in HTML you can use SVG but they would (in most cases) represent the same information. An optional attribute "render" could make this slightly more elegant. Maybe an optional render attribute could be the generic fix? Anders From nobody Wed Oct 2 02:12:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2710C1200FE for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 02:12:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8l4gfRVt5stI for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 02:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67DDD1200FD for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 02:12:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1570007530; bh=DPw54vC5EVGcj0f9Ow8GVojJMJx6pQflPqP3i1eOz8s=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=dMDCzSowyB5MHGdyTyJSd0RkI1RkgHTr0nC75M5LHrsXO+5nsBKVIi1XVcFQazkfQ e5p6OQR8BMzMtsr1j+Qfk9MlYAyfKElKO8VRq1noxoZC/RUtNL0dAaNNwC7Y3xSSJB Oz1I3xuF02oWYQfCrQkOb2DaMbVeei422ZNhZgK8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MN5eR-1iWIaF2F8f-00IydK; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 11:12:10 +0200 To: Anders Rundgren , xml2rfc@ietf.org References: From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <2b032752-ee75-4cf9-8491-e8f97903c966@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 11:12:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GkMb7ZgXzZwB4tl/AUP0evjmEjqX7YYGfIOL8RK7nzxFlYVMru3 Il1H5qIgk866XD7T1s/GaehjEuXgOnBcUy3Hzl9ZxlPz+Gk3NJtooa1ig+ZDShu3i4wShQV 8zbF44SnTar7SBbOLRz/id2Qmyu1MmkFxORK0oROb0926Q3D/3hI9A1mSbw6hMewWynw5N8 J43FqlcmjLjnvK2UpF1Qg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:kO161OmrrUg=:D4iCoQf0bGIED+BGw463SL 1BU1J8cY7jIPmAe6oaJUR0hE1luc0SK0ReSETrbnQzLX+t/X/Rgv3s+T3HUChSZRhrL3dnEKO oPFNqxmWm4J3lfs2zCmQuKG9eSbnVY9Lom5AhVuq4XNZOot8XF90Hb7Wz2P5UCKps/aCwTvyZ QvsuZQku/+Qu7z9Q4ZWD3KDdrPSci0ZK7+XpMDD7azt0loNJG7iVqNHw9O2xOGtwi4ElvXvC1 EDVohZEPR/qVX8oo+WPYOqdtSHGEQbr6BS+IzMpRXfEDNXzQeaeK2m+XeKAXZ4kKnt543xyli 9cRpcfRy1KCTQvYv6bh6jOv2Lwy3NWZLQ4UmrVowLn3LUBysnQ5EX6srTYMoFQcZCkhfeMQaE efCXHsDut12dZn9CEMUl8EgdauOyI5uxdElykSRcR24bhgO4nW3R91zPKPsbZAreiut7EhVOW jLHxEpC+4IFNqu0qNhHWB1Bgkh1Cb8JXiLb84ByK+vEHP/luc+5f4u04qHEmfaGdGRLcMYDoQ RLp0MdPOJcQafj8AYpAzPjgd8sWo88276mvCvknv3EqyTcGKP2scwhMZXoYBqqUT+6i0GYNJV DAhQ21DBF6EvfR5dZvNUSchwDKhLxYLvS+aPoir/VeXMKUH70BJHCaHHgmJ26xstzqiMXn70w YRA/S5NFE48hlXXFXzzqkMl3hAOcWapRHE1bLEqjPBTPoSu+8/nzFFkrqDmfXsQoPXIZGHg7F pUXQSF4+7Ci45dIlil92NjD1yiOPT3A1cQkEqVnxMfvrEUH+2QAb2HkEj9ksASzZO6EGABgWI poj7Jo9c8eDk+ozwueV4hJ9tO9Pfw5ltrKEGMlM7pmXxA1iToMgRrrQJyOYNmIYYmjSX5DuKh 3t5PKne839xZfcTyDUmR8aOGSih3kt9Kp/3/ei5Aw+1rPrHDj4W658FUctk8vlAYqWsPJNNRg X4mSPSIl7ZNiSVkVq7Fu0uXT2O23st4YFQt/KDqOnS02V0Bp899VO2QWcx2rtXt5aLWzzT+vI mT5XVvEPRhJazPOu1GLN5uWaflH4GZ3QPg6OzLBNDWt6Hn69zTGu8rWQ9owHX7UZNna/0kXGB zmVfm5BOB1cgnr2+3uOdW2A5dwIbg5CLMp2SBiECX/opSmH/IShiZu3knJ3TC96/W+0BbbP4I usjC86KwjGAdGprJKNg+E7RnJFSEOc+87B79GHHJlnQxlpSyT6ZSf0gD66Fq2chC+kXOB+CZe DW2/m65+RGHbvkjXC9Z184Qu6AqDsyjX4i2sqygwrADiQ93pR2zh2asw0+Fw= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 09:12:21 -0000 On 02.10.2019 10:00, Anders Rundgren wrote: > Hi, > The new HTML format is awesome! > > I do though have some issues with maintaining a good RFC Markup document > and an HTML variant using the same XML V3 as input. > > gives "text" in RFC Markup.=C2=A0 That MAY fit some RFCs but not al= l. > gives *text* in RFC Markup. That MAY fit a few RFCs. > > I think you should add an optional modifier. > > Another issue related to document format specific renderings is . > > In RFC Markup you are limited to "line art" but in HTML you can use SVG > but they would (in most cases) represent the same information. > An optional attribute "render" could make this slightly more elegant. > > Maybe an optional render attribute could be the generic fix? > ... What would that attribute do? Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Oct 2 04:37:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92197120044 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 04:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BW8YrfzifZrf for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 04:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x442.google.com (mail-wr1-x442.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::442]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB18A12000F for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 04:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x442.google.com with SMTP id q9so469974wrm.8 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 04:37:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vqcRl877/BG4VYq55wLn0lU9vq8oaFRLHjMFOBfkYHY=; b=ta0oOb+CfYLKOxHl+wISX4omy8cYsybcPjXKY8fL8iJ6d6qjR0czkz4H6K+Rif3bY+ O0u01Gw/Fr/qb0gOOSosFPoOk1fW4u9b8uncdAVIUr7QdL7HmolbxyMsd6qi+/NmZ1b5 IhfGabuQL3Rgq3ElehOOPZiqlMn9hTIWIuzjuUp7vlkY1XfE/DBXUk+LTs8m02FNEuOw SJgzJcVPIjN1Dpl0wxmuyPJ9RUTXJo/qMpRtwvwqgBKLV70k4JMSSXVY8ibXY25VBKYI E76O8uza44EDKy0bjUBJDJNPKAw6k7y3iPgUsHKmDV/LrXnW0NO8h4IPXjnWYR6wiOoY tkNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vqcRl877/BG4VYq55wLn0lU9vq8oaFRLHjMFOBfkYHY=; b=MDnZaYbXlHJ1p4ybbg6df8hlF6hT45hEFYkNuTpH9DMwGxX5v/NfU0Rt/h1C7Rxwtz +J2tgKx7DmwunsbiUqjzNhP3HAJSc80kekTHZGuzfZF2kxWtmeiwotbdPVGYRa5tX+p1 v/PRAIg3cUnKYcCq8lbvsAAbVAhXd+s16e+Oc5Dv+9sJ7Uzvsi8uErfGq5qpigYpLNlR F7to0gOPp5xOCghqlwWMed6z692QjHUEovv+BOlZB5DaOjYeNeffrCFLuQtADob974e4 gHzP/yuSkt8b3H8QK1mniCqHVb95yLEXzFywgW2C4JI3zFDTCF3zk0U0kFmwqd4cppJ9 hfNg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXSFAc7BvlbyEci9B0B+A9OCQRydHxel9yD8HPClGsC3L/CqWjf GYV7XBnHQQrB8mYyh3YGwxaRwI3Q X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyaf4Hka9L+6eMyXbWaBEIDa/3aEG/4ekb4xIOlq885GxxSrYdfLexsFNKRD6g4K+0cVnoBow== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f00d:: with SMTP id j13mr2268426wro.140.1570016244748; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 04:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r6sm6995318wmh.38.2019.10.02.04.37.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Oct 2019 04:37:24 -0700 (PDT) To: Julian Reschke , xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <2b032752-ee75-4cf9-8491-e8f97903c966@gmx.de> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 13:37:21 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2b032752-ee75-4cf9-8491-e8f97903c966@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 11:37:29 -0000 On 2019-10-02 11:12, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 02.10.2019 10:00, Anders Rundgren wrote: >> Hi, >> The new HTML format is awesome! >> >> I do though have some issues with maintaining a good RFC Markup document >> and an HTML variant using the same XML V3 as input. >> >> gives "text" in RFC Markup.  That MAY fit some RFCs but not all. >> gives *text* in RFC Markup. That MAY fit a few RFCs. >> >> I think you should add an optional modifier. >> >> Another issue related to document format specific renderings is . >> >> In RFC Markup you are limited to "line art" but in HTML you can use SVG >> but they would (in most cases) represent the same information. >> An optional attribute "render" could make this slightly more elegant. >> >> Maybe an optional render attribute could be the generic fix? >> ... > > What would that attribute do? ... would only return data to the print process when the HTML format is requested while ... would maybe only disable for RFC Markup since it is an attribute to text. would presumably work analogous to The "render" attribute would hold a list of known output formats to which it applies. Anders > > Best regards, Julian > From nobody Wed Oct 2 05:07:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E1012006B for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:07:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8aB39kmwNZ7 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF92712000F for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:64941 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1iFdQ5-0004Y8-Pb; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 05:07:50 -0700 To: Anders Rundgren , xml2rfc@ietf.org References: From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <424bd09b-7a28-7fa4-b9d6-d8016988236c@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:07:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="C0OSPK0jUcTr6mUESc3q18DFjpJGcNwgP" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: xml2rfc@ietf.org, anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 12:07:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --C0OSPK0jUcTr6mUESc3q18DFjpJGcNwgP Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="niiDvRaQKpdEqL3QHUPmfPM5HUMXQWDl7"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Anders Rundgren , xml2rfc@ietf.org Message-ID: <424bd09b-7a28-7fa4-b9d6-d8016988236c@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup References: In-Reply-To: --niiDvRaQKpdEqL3QHUPmfPM5HUMXQWDl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Anders, On 2019-10-02 10:00, Anders Rundgren wrote: > Hi, > The new HTML format is awesome! >=20 > I do though have some issues with maintaining a good RFC Markup documen= t and an HTML variant using the same XML V3 as input. >=20 > gives "text" in RFC Markup. That MAY fit some RFCs but not all. > gives *text* in RFC Markup. That MAY fit a few RFCs. >=20 > I think you should add an optional modifier. No, it should be consistent across documents. I'd love a better option for myself, but I don't have one. > Another issue related to document format specific renderings is . >=20 > In RFC Markup you are limited to "line art" but in HTML you can use > SVG but they would (in most cases) represent the same information. > An optional attribute "render" could make this slightly more > elegant. >=20 > Maybe an optional render attribute could be the generic fix? Please start by reading this, and see if it resolves things for you: http://durif.tools.ietf.org/src/xml2rfc/trunk/cli/doc/xml2rfc3.html#artwo= rk-alternatives Henrik --niiDvRaQKpdEqL3QHUPmfPM5HUMXQWDl7-- --C0OSPK0jUcTr6mUESc3q18DFjpJGcNwgP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl2Ukw0ACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrDQRAAmjLkT7IBCOX0EVtNpRMzJJ1DDGP2s5ggisFwTQiCNHTYRlB06+eCbMgu IF8DP8JOB/VfqyXg2+Vx2i1imQwHZcYElo2HbuJluYOziN4BwdoG8FDPTyvYlOsH i22knGSbcvcrDHPtBwO2uJWIwlEJhwvNlVlyz69uIYmLl3KSLvOGNv3UZtBTN10w EjosKDxw7uHNIR66c4DHzbNwhf1CHl3ZnyTcS4wyHAl2f99zKLrYlw3UeLijZYnm +MzngYgzJD039mpy3WTew1LfYIEtfjClaNzOXd4RFjSp+ZKIo2cJ0gUbE4U0zLlg kO3sm0AIwWmKcwtXK3xQ6PLzzs1ohEsFADPK3Cb6P7iGz35yuSeJVpAKmm5jSMJ5 QaZOnpvSJh+VmSYlGcoahJ5fGZv6zyxoR4IcisSucaB+VaJaNkoRgwFOGvIo302x K52+JP5Tawmh5mReGRUIza0kn91UQxJPbYd4G8N8aTQqKUzI6a8es0b0rImtEj4Z ohrk5y/Abfsu2uuxpAFz72AmJtQiKJZ59rh8bSSxwCH+5vibUtxEgTxU2xjL3XmG hOaat+D5FEqBANbzeIGkml9spTEkpzdYiJkp4HlAxBE2VhCAI3s9qHdBSIf+M0A4 mWwagdER0Jg9Sm9Ah/20wcK7y++uSPGFdyCFlVRMsU1d8Z3K/fM= =HWAu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --C0OSPK0jUcTr6mUESc3q18DFjpJGcNwgP-- From nobody Wed Oct 2 05:10:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E733812006B for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ALE3bZ_Ag8Tx for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C87F012000F for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:10:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1570018221; bh=S9WSEExUvW6bn78RC0pAlPtjrqPyQBW2EM2efN6NsA4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=BRyiWLD4X72Ui8XQW/+5cWwBmJt0UThOtmiRdCArIZ6PBqesAVBdUiLixTGMJdCYi V68eLwPB6Y7uqWHU7sfkOwdo4Uq7/0z4fuWQXluHYYUEH/J0agxOPd2Qgf+5nfbJvz VJ2rmgdqR+V285wrnqs4/JzhyliVHX1LvkoLeqXY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MmlXA-1hoaLq102o-00jtWM; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:05:16 +0200 To: Anders Rundgren , xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <2b032752-ee75-4cf9-8491-e8f97903c966@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <1c30ee46-c84c-3fd8-50e8-995bc3ae9b12@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:05:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JOdiIBF2F8TKnj5L8gXXH/zZ6sQM1aaCXxttt+NqLcZ6XHjl/kG ct6+dWcPQLQPa3yx2LkbmQTa6EJUXMk4xKaFPUzMd+s4JQE2jQ8Ex7NFYTrCU0JJ+my77Jw /tlj7IYuGut59HLv00TNVx+bQOEhRn2fNDwOXhUMJypHIJe+Vv/pP8JcWJ9pRW90JaJrxOT yubypapZvtnCdtpCrDkRw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:irbnRA/YZbA=:LqamLyPFnAGL/VZcAML6PZ oQo1y9Xwbe6ydt+xf8CQBg9g9oZsudwOIFC2swHnBUOYnVo8QD7h+Tsz5ssI4AJjxCW+2Idhu KjFHxEJggs3UUcPwTKb/cGm8hdz4zYpHoDoEPnqkXCfCkQGoir345lEdSVd0C9gvsbHNmcIZN lKqHZxbWJ9GR2upDMYogAWLskzGJ/Q/NAxeI6+MFiHwr53q2uaohrkfmMq3g/YOsON4p6isJ+ ouXy8dr8/NkWDsQkjEq8gEWJVm5mRQaXUPZhZETvDFzF8JTtnamrj/8fTSJ5O6v0BIbrPqQqt 8I8/2Q4ZBwT0XyxXKTnnmIpFNmiL49G6V149q1Nj/HsmZz4S8grn6gVZWdUaywuNWkn2j5wbe MIecHicnvEh1SiuQ4EMfQ02iH6wbiZJh4Osl9xmvYinD3On+ADD+JC9mNU5ACD81veafJ/8iP SwaLrSfXuWNbtmZcHzH9LpUG7F3qysLQpWbm3qmejGvE8nCExoJbVww70iOy5n2LvRQqB4zPt T2SOS1/mEWJxEx7CXnt1g/DPwjLZU4hbpl31ngaxAIUGhCFEEm43pFiyqxc4QfvqZ9tUtcsEu 98jGUWFkEyDsygGaQyg2ZP54n95tF7or44QhDpACkm3hN5WbOO67hia14or5VpJdvFd8Wlj6V +RN1O0CtN7pSKqDMeVBh5DszEKiETqsHa/7GX66dMz4Jx9DeJ0YygRDV3EfXpRtr0cxj085Zg L97QGdebZ7QCoUA0sLdK7gt32KkBsIhcLGSA/3diXnSL6w9l4sTltgRpi262woZPub5+3PRoP 0owA/2k6OSqmKIBonMM9oWjA7HXGHoAPvC6869RVSZUVg2MYr3UAYcVaKzeYTonr2OJGhsJJG tBU3cokR3Vif85EyI8G1cpnxEEiMHMdMMglEdJFamiho3Tea0fRk2OJb+DKcgf0qBovq+zuSM B3mFZVfPXk3acruhZoPV8Cp3ImBc4uMKCaO0ZGuOeQvwM8lk7RshdRCEKuPF+BXKN+nMMBGKb rrcpjik1qxC4REmCFhlTKUayds7VBs1NEn3tNDhGjOW9RnZkruJtYtU+3Ujj6eh2/ekC0VDtZ YoxftkoNoVKRaQmHxbGk4e68i1lZjP/7YhWwQdj8FKQ0MUTsBe2wZFJ6TlVF0s58Aa79DnjaM B6S4vgkgNmvst0NuPbOywd60jXPiEQdo/AY/xLyBoNih8J4VOBLdvAs2h4XASfBKyTeKGhkqK QJmVe1q3T1+OA0ceFeXKg/K/BFI5W+pxfnPFa1QCjujX66SglAE2XdMGDd3A= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 12:10:29 -0000 On 02.10.2019 13:37, Anders Rundgren wrote: > On 2019-10-02 11:12, Julian Reschke wrote: >> On 02.10.2019 10:00, Anders Rundgren wrote: >>> Hi, >>> The new HTML format is awesome! >>> >>> I do though have some issues with maintaining a good RFC Markup docume= nt >>> and an HTML variant using the same XML V3 as input. >>> >>> gives "text" in RFC Markup.=C2=A0 That MAY fit some RFCs but not = all. >>> gives *text* in RFC Markup. That MAY fit a few RFCs. >>> >>> I think you should add an optional modifier. >>> >>> Another issue related to document format specific renderings is >>> . >>> >>> In RFC Markup you are limited to "line art" but in HTML you can use SV= G >>> but they would (in most cases) represent the same information. >>> An optional attribute "render" could make this slightly more elegant. >>> >>> Maybe an optional render attribute could be the generic fix? >>> ... >> >> What would that attribute do? > > ... > > would only return data to the print process when the HTML format is > requested > ... Still not getting it. The current approach (see ) allows both cases (no textual fallback, or textual fallback). What's missing? Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Oct 2 06:30:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4929112000F for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 06:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id orQ5eRec9iNC for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 06:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x442.google.com (mail-wr1-x442.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::442]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8FA2120020 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x442.google.com with SMTP id o18so19644474wrv.13 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GCqSnLpckBqAghHcJ2oSc9ekmMoClTCmqnsCsgdighk=; b=O+4IfeEcIIGsCEm2AX1xnTs5q5spgEB5K0S31G3LhSv8px/MpCtdlpYH6NXQCSopiA lV2DPBxZsoA35Ea1ZwNn01nKAUxto63KudbZ9aCmUMQmJDMeCWuonvhxzrJNBs1R1Jyc y0PnPEl1nbdqY0Y/vh3LNDp/aLzt/gbvHdxviwCx0f6pkmpOEJFyt5yDrWjRQD3WMnDN vs34SkhgRZvhjbI1v9AhZ/IvoXeXQG8WnURArpglu47B0dwGJ7hLNXE2UIUEAIiobRLJ qszrLRgNt+IV05Df9QvdgsYwsVbq60wAe4dpMAgYGsavUOpg4xMvC39Hwk4WoqL0JvXV kmyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GCqSnLpckBqAghHcJ2oSc9ekmMoClTCmqnsCsgdighk=; b=CBaAcOwKtO54Pt3MzQ+UkCqAS/0/0tGb3LFDXXYuD+kjNgzFAiY39tgHsOUU3hIXwQ K17Yja9UQgjjsTSeDMsDRduX0v9AnrrA+3OCHef/B9+5BL3YImCQiL6WrlwxzftVfJiW IrHLErlzp9Pk58pBLrB5MDPeHAPvZXcsnfZtPrk12V2mSekS9nAomBOiVhPBLqYNFjPU rMrcDa/U8w6g79h8Q7Miv8OrdBFMq8YcIk61/27RqC5rbvDjZ7tT5/F48JI1t2YzblDM o3xTMkNcbtUrKJun3jXpS7RxRxQiYqhi2O/q68J/ROp66o98wdjOvBzsvPa0VAtoSqnD Ea3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWB2wKsMPvExepHD0PzjlioRNdk+9cLCbdJqQ2ZGVN4U4TeqerM ln2jjHm5mwYEhit9Ny8rD065R7V1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqziwXUBnf9jN7/TchOU1GQr/2aNHxYG5KwRr/YPk5Q4fI0O2IFPTalEAKjVagNI97rUGi8MPw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:dbc6:: with SMTP id e6mr2701362wrj.149.1570023049251; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y14sm36631667wrd.84.2019.10.02.06.30.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:30:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Julian Reschke , xml2rfc@ietf.org References: <2b032752-ee75-4cf9-8491-e8f97903c966@gmx.de> <1c30ee46-c84c-3fd8-50e8-995bc3ae9b12@gmx.de> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: <03921483-ae59-6d61-d46c-c53b1d240064@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 15:30:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1c30ee46-c84c-3fd8-50e8-995bc3ae9b12@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] HTML V3 vs RFC Markup X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 13:30:55 -0000 On 2019-10-02 14:05, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 02.10.2019 13:37, Anders Rundgren wrote: >> On 2019-10-02 11:12, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> On 02.10.2019 10:00, Anders Rundgren wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> The new HTML format is awesome! >>>> >>>> I do though have some issues with maintaining a good RFC Markup document >>>> and an HTML variant using the same XML V3 as input. >>>> >>>> gives "text" in RFC Markup.  That MAY fit some RFCs but not all. >>>> gives *text* in RFC Markup. That MAY fit a few RFCs. >>>> >>>> I think you should add an optional modifier. >>>> >>>> Another issue related to document format specific renderings is >>>> . >>>> >>>> In RFC Markup you are limited to "line art" but in HTML you can use SVG >>>> but they would (in most cases) represent the same information. >>>> An optional attribute "render" could make this slightly more elegant. >>>> >>>> Maybe an optional render attribute could be the generic fix? >>>> ... >>> >>> What would that attribute do? >> >> ... >> >> would only return data to the print process when the HTML format is >> requested >> ... > > Still not getting it. > > The current approach (see > ) > allows both cases (no textual fallback, or textual fallback). What's > missing? Thanx Julian, I haven't studied this document before. I indeed managed to switch between ascii-art and svg. With the latter I noted a small (but difficult) problem though: Sizing/Scaling is not entirely logical. I would assume that most authors would like SVGs to keep a relation to document font size and getting a scrollbar (like they get for ascii-art) when the SVG doesn't fit. I would consider some kind of sizing attribute. Using a viewBox SVGs fills the window horizontally which is fine in some cases but. Regarding and the implementation notes contains a line: * : Guidance requested. Now rendered as "text" Regards, Anders > > Best regards, Julian > From nobody Fri Oct 4 05:42:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61AE012011A; Fri, 4 Oct 2019 05:41:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJmMzG9nu49u; Fri, 4 Oct 2019 05:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from durif.tools.ietf.org (durif.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::3d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15879120044; Fri, 4 Oct 2019 05:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from henrik by durif.tools.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1iGMu9-00055y-Ui; Fri, 04 Oct 2019 05:41:53 -0700 To: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org, xml2rfc@ietf.org Cc: rfc-markdown@ietf.org Message-Id: From: Henrik Levkowetz Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 05:41:53 -0700 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rfc-markdown@ietf.org, xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org, xml2rfc@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on durif.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0 X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 12:41:55 -0000 Hi, This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, v2.32.0, generated when running the mkrelease script. Release notes: xml2rfc (2.32.0) ietf; urgency=medium * Adjusted print font sizes, which were in some cases overly large. * Added CSS page-break settings to avoid PDF page breaks inside tables and references. * Tweaked the styling of