
From nobody Mon Dec  2 08:22:58 2019
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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v2.36.0
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v2.36.0, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (2.36.0) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Improved support for internal xref to <li>, giving 'Section X,
    Paragraph Y, Item Z'.  Tweaked the output for xrefs to <li> with
    format='counter' to not include trailing period.

  * Stripped away some cases of leading punctuation on incomplete postal 
    address lines.

  * Fixed an issue with multi-part <ol> lists with the same group setting.

  * Added support for tables in list items, on request from the RPC, in 
    order to match the needs of a couple of recent RFCs-to-be.

  * Improved output format handling of postal addresses for countries with
    non-latin scripts where the XML address content is ASCII, rather than
    the expected native script.

  * Fixed the isempty() utility function to correctly return False for 
    elements containing comments with trailing text.  Fixes issue #455.

  * Added some cases of normalization of postal code during v2v3 conversion.

  * Added bottom margin space for artwork in print output, to match that
    for sourcecode.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  02 Dec 2019 15:32:24 +0000

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
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installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
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The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
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	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v2.37.0
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v2.37.0, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (2.37.0) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Added a new element <contact> with the same attributes and child
    elements as <author>, except for @role.  As a child element of
    <section> it will create a name and address block, as for authors in
    the Authors' Addresses section; as a child of <t> it will create an
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  * Changed the handling of block elements within table cells to re-wrap
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  * Added an error for references without anchor (in v2; in v3 this will
    be caught by the schema validation step).  Fixes issue #412.

  * Changed error handling in a couple of places so as to result in
    non-zero command-line exit values on errors.  Fixes issue #464.

  * Tweaked the <cref> text renderer to not apply <t> paragraph filling to
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  * Changed layout of multiple instances of <extaddr> and <street> to show
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  * Added an option to silence warnings and notices starting with given
    strings.

  * Changed the HTML renderer to not emit email information in both
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  * Added a test case using the new <contact> element, and added a couple
    of email addresses for increased coverage of email address placement
    when non-ascii address information is present.

  * Updated the handling of non-latin address information in the text
    format to follow RFC7997 and the HTML output more closely.

  * Added generation of v3.rng from v3.rnc to the Makefile, and fixed a
    schema error in the .rng file

  * Changed the default content downcoding done for things like 'smart
    quotes' to only apply to text content, not to XML element attributes.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  09 Dec 2019 14:50:54 +0000

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
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manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
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Regards,

	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


From nobody Wed Dec 11 13:32:28 2019
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 16:32:19 -0500
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Subject: [xml2rfc] forcing new line in Hanging lists for definitions
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I don't like the way Hanging lists work when you have long names you are 
defining.  I would like the definition to start on a new line below the 
term.

Look at the following:

     <section title="Definitions">
     <t>
         <list style="hanging">
         <t hangText="Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):">
             The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
             permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
             padding as the padding rule.
         </t>
         <t hangText="cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):">
             Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their
             use of the function.
         </t>
         <t hangText="SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):">
             A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
         </t>
         <t hangText="XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):">
             A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
             the output can be extended to any desired length.
         </t>
         </list>
     </t>
     </section>

which produces:

2.3.  Definitions

    Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):  The family of all
       sponge functions with a KECCAK-f permutation as the underlying
       function and multi-rate padding as the padding rule.

    cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):  Extends the SHAKE scheme
       to allow users to customize their use of the function.

    SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):  A secure hash that allows for
       an arbitrary output length.

    XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):  A function on bit strings (also
       called messages) in which the output can be extended to any
       desired length.

I would like to get the content after those : to start on a new line for 
better readability (at least in my opinion).

thanks


From nobody Wed Dec 11 13:45:32 2019
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Kramdown-rfc (http://rfc.space):

> (1.0.2:) An IAL attribute "vspace" can be added to a definition list =
to break after the definition term:
>=20
> {: vspace=3D"0"}
> word:
> : definition
>=20
> anotherword:
> : another definition

Translate that to XML to remind me how to do this in RFCXMLv2:

$ kramdown-rfc2629
{: vspace=3D"0"}
word:
: definition

anotherword:
: another definition
=E2=9E=94
<t><list style=3D"hanging">
  <t hangText=3D'word:'><vspace blankLines=3D'0'/>
  definition</t>
  <t hangText=3D'anotherword:'><vspace blankLines=3D'0'/>
  another definition</t>
</list></t>
$

ISTR this was fixed in v3 by introducing proper definition lists with an =
attribute to request the usual formatting (<dl hanging=3D=E2=80=9Cfalse=E2=
=80=9D>, but I think this is unstable: =
https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-xml2rfc-v3-bis/issues/38).

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


> On Dec 11, 2019, at 22:32, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> I don't like the way Hanging lists work when you have long names you =
are defining.  I would like the definition to start on a new line below =
the term.
>=20
> Look at the following:
>=20
>     <section title=3D"Definitions">
>     <t>
>         <list style=3D"hanging">
>         <t hangText=3D"Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):">
>             The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>             permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
>             padding as the padding rule.
>         </t>
>         <t hangText=3D"cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):">
>             Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their
>             use of the function.
>         </t>
>         <t hangText=3D"SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):">
>             A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
>         </t>
>         <t hangText=3D"XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):">
>             A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
>             the output can be extended to any desired length.
>         </t>
>         </list>
>     </t>
>     </section>
>=20
> which produces:
>=20
> 2.3.  Definitions
>=20
>    Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):  The family of all
>       sponge functions with a KECCAK-f permutation as the underlying
>       function and multi-rate padding as the padding rule.
>=20
>    cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):  Extends the SHAKE scheme
>       to allow users to customize their use of the function.
>=20
>    SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):  A secure hash that allows =
for
>       an arbitrary output length.
>=20
>    XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):  A function on bit strings (also
>       called messages) in which the output can be extended to any
>       desired length.
>=20
> I would like to get the content after those : to start on a new line =
for better readability (at least in my opinion).
>=20
> thanks
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc


From nobody Wed Dec 11 15:01:37 2019
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] forcing new line in Hanging lists for definitions
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] forcing new line in Hanging lists for definitions
References: <929ab2b7-da05-f88a-d76d-87d8b12698d7@htt-consult.com>
 <8D5BA082-333E-43CF-99DC-ED5A2DE6148B@tzi.org>
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The attribute in v3 is is newline=3D"true" (default: "false").  In v2 you=

need to use <vspace/>.

	Henrik

On 2019-12-11 22:45, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> Kramdown-rfc (http://rfc.space):
>=20
>> (1.0.2:) An IAL attribute "vspace" can be added to a definition list t=
o break after the definition term:
>>=20
>> {: vspace=3D"0"}
>> word:
>> : definition
>>=20
>> anotherword:
>> : another definition
>=20
> Translate that to XML to remind me how to do this in RFCXMLv2:
>=20
> $ kramdown-rfc2629
> {: vspace=3D"0"}
> word:
> : definition
>=20
> anotherword:
> : another definition
> =E2=9E=94
> <t><list style=3D"hanging">
>   <t hangText=3D'word:'><vspace blankLines=3D'0'/>
>   definition</t>
>   <t hangText=3D'anotherword:'><vspace blankLines=3D'0'/>
>   another definition</t>
> </list></t>
> $
>=20
> ISTR this was fixed in v3 by introducing proper definition lists with a=
n attribute to request the usual formatting (<dl hanging=3D=E2=80=9Cfalse=
=E2=80=9D>, but I think this is unstable: https://github.com/rfc-format/d=
raft-iab-xml2rfc-v3-bis/issues/38).
>=20
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>=20
>=20
>> On Dec 11, 2019, at 22:32, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrot=
e:
>>=20
>> I don't like the way Hanging lists work when you have long names you a=
re defining.  I would like the definition to start on a new line below th=
e term.
>>=20
>> Look at the following:
>>=20
>>     <section title=3D"Definitions">
>>     <t>
>>         <list style=3D"hanging">
>>         <t hangText=3D"Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):">
>>             The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>>             permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
>>             padding as the padding rule.
>>         </t>
>>         <t hangText=3D"cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):">
>>             Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their=

>>             use of the function.
>>         </t>
>>         <t hangText=3D"SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):">
>>             A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
>>         </t>
>>         <t hangText=3D"XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):">
>>             A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
>>             the output can be extended to any desired length.
>>         </t>
>>         </list>
>>     </t>
>>     </section>
>>=20
>> which produces:
>>=20
>> 2.3.  Definitions
>>=20
>>    Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):  The family of all
>>       sponge functions with a KECCAK-f permutation as the underlying
>>       function and multi-rate padding as the padding rule.
>>=20
>>    cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):  Extends the SHAKE scheme=

>>       to allow users to customize their use of the function.
>>=20
>>    SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):  A secure hash that allows fo=
r
>>       an arbitrary output length.
>>=20
>>    XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):  A function on bit strings (also
>>       called messages) in which the output can be extended to any
>>       desired length.
>>=20
>> I would like to get the content after those : to start on a new line f=
or better readability (at least in my opinion).
>>=20
>> thanks
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> xml2rfc mailing list
>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>=20


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From nobody Wed Dec 11 16:35:33 2019
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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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References: <929ab2b7-da05-f88a-d76d-87d8b12698d7@htt-consult.com> <8D5BA082-333E-43CF-99DC-ED5A2DE6148B@tzi.org> <b934bfdd-1cb8-ee3f-bdf7-773eff02fcdb@levkowetz.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] forcing new line in Hanging lists for definitions
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On 12/11/19 6:01 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> The attribute in v3 is is newline="true" (default: "false").  In v2 you
> need to use <vspace/>.

Where/how is newline= used?  I tried a couple things, but the parser did 
not like my attempts.

thanks

> On 2019-12-11 22:45, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> Kramdown-rfc (http://rfc.space):
>>
>>> (1.0.2:) An IAL attribute "vspace" can be added to a definition list to break after the definition term:
>>>
>>> {: vspace="0"}
>>> word:
>>> : definition
>>>
>>> anotherword:
>>> : another definition
>> Translate that to XML to remind me how to do this in RFCXMLv2:
>>
>> $ kramdown-rfc2629
>> {: vspace="0"}
>> word:
>> : definition
>>
>> anotherword:
>> : another definition
>> ➔
>> <t><list style="hanging">
>>    <t hangText='word:'><vspace blankLines='0'/>
>>    definition</t>
>>    <t hangText='anotherword:'><vspace blankLines='0'/>
>>    another definition</t>
>> </list></t>
>> $
>>
>> ISTR this was fixed in v3 by introducing proper definition lists with an attribute to request the usual formatting (<dl hanging=“false”>, but I think this is unstable: https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-xml2rfc-v3-bis/issues/38).
>>
>> Grüße, Carsten
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 11, 2019, at 22:32, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't like the way Hanging lists work when you have long names you are defining.  I would like the definition to start on a new line below the term.
>>>
>>> Look at the following:
>>>
>>>      <section title="Definitions">
>>>      <t>
>>>          <list style="hanging">
>>>          <t hangText="Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):">
>>>              The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>>>              permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
>>>              padding as the padding rule.
>>>          </t>
>>>          <t hangText="cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):">
>>>              Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their
>>>              use of the function.
>>>          </t>
>>>          <t hangText="SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):">
>>>              A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
>>>          </t>
>>>          <t hangText="XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):">
>>>              A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
>>>              the output can be extended to any desired length.
>>>          </t>
>>>          </list>
>>>      </t>
>>>      </section>
>>>
>>> which produces:
>>>
>>> 2.3.  Definitions
>>>
>>>     Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):  The family of all
>>>        sponge functions with a KECCAK-f permutation as the underlying
>>>        function and multi-rate padding as the padding rule.
>>>
>>>     cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):  Extends the SHAKE scheme
>>>        to allow users to customize their use of the function.
>>>
>>>     SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):  A secure hash that allows for
>>>        an arbitrary output length.
>>>
>>>     XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):  A function on bit strings (also
>>>        called messages) in which the output can be extended to any
>>>        desired length.
>>>
>>> I would like to get the content after those : to start on a new line for better readability (at least in my opinion).
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xml2rfc mailing list
>>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>> _______________________________________________
>> xml2rfc mailing list
>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] forcing new line in Hanging lists for definitions
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Hi Bob,

On 2019-12-12 01:35, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>=20
> On 12/11/19 6:01 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> The attribute in v3 is is newline=3D"true" (default: "false").  In v2 =
you
>> need to use <vspace/>.
>=20
> Where/how is newline=3D used?  I tried a couple things, but the parser =
did=20
> not like my attempts.

This should do the trick, using v3 elements:

 <dl newline=3D"true">
    <dt>word:</dt>
    <dd>definition</dd>
    <dt>anotherword:</dt>
    <dd>another definition</dd>
 </dl>

Regards,

	Henrik
>=20
> thanks
>=20
>> On 2019-12-11 22:45, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>>> Kramdown-rfc (http://rfc.space):
>>>
>>>> (1.0.2:) An IAL attribute "vspace" can be added to a definition list=
 to break after the definition term:
>>>>
>>>> {: vspace=3D"0"}
>>>> word:
>>>> : definition
>>>>
>>>> anotherword:
>>>> : another definition
>>> Translate that to XML to remind me how to do this in RFCXMLv2:
>>>
>>> $ kramdown-rfc2629
>>> {: vspace=3D"0"}
>>> word:
>>> : definition
>>>
>>> anotherword:
>>> : another definition
>>> =E2=9E=94
>>> <t><list style=3D"hanging">
>>>    <t hangText=3D'word:'><vspace blankLines=3D'0'/>
>>>    definition</t>
>>>    <t hangText=3D'anotherword:'><vspace blankLines=3D'0'/>
>>>    another definition</t>
>>> </list></t>
>>> $
>>>
>>> ISTR this was fixed in v3 by introducing proper definition lists with=
 an attribute to request the usual formatting (<dl hanging=3D=E2=80=9Cfal=
se=E2=80=9D>, but I think this is unstable: https://github.com/rfc-format=
/draft-iab-xml2rfc-v3-bis/issues/38).
>>>
>>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 11, 2019, at 22:32, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wr=
ote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't like the way Hanging lists work when you have long names you=
 are defining.  I would like the definition to start on a new line below =
the term.
>>>>
>>>> Look at the following:
>>>>
>>>>      <section title=3D"Definitions">
>>>>      <t>
>>>>          <list style=3D"hanging">
>>>>          <t hangText=3D"Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):=
">
>>>>              The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>>>>              permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
>>>>              padding as the padding rule.
>>>>          </t>
>>>>          <t hangText=3D"cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):">
>>>>              Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize th=
eir
>>>>              use of the function.
>>>>          </t>
>>>>          <t hangText=3D"SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):">
>>>>              A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output lengt=
h.
>>>>          </t>
>>>>          <t hangText=3D"XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):">
>>>>              A function on bit strings (also called messages) in whi=
ch
>>>>              the output can be extended to any desired length.
>>>>          </t>
>>>>          </list>
>>>>      </t>
>>>>      </section>
>>>>
>>>> which produces:
>>>>
>>>> 2.3.  Definitions
>>>>
>>>>     Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):  The family of all
>>>>        sponge functions with a KECCAK-f permutation as the underlyin=
g
>>>>        function and multi-rate padding as the padding rule.
>>>>
>>>>     cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):  Extends the SHAKE sch=
eme
>>>>        to allow users to customize their use of the function.
>>>>
>>>>     SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):  A secure hash that allows=
 for
>>>>        an arbitrary output length.
>>>>
>>>>     XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):  A function on bit strings (al=
so
>>>>        called messages) in which the output can be extended to any
>>>>        desired length.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to get the content after those : to start on a new line=
 for better readability (at least in my opinion).
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xml2rfc mailing list
>>>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xml2rfc mailing list
>>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>>
>=20
>=20


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From nobody Thu Dec 12 03:06:31 2019
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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <929ab2b7-da05-f88a-d76d-87d8b12698d7@htt-consult.com> <8D5BA082-333E-43CF-99DC-ED5A2DE6148B@tzi.org> <b934bfdd-1cb8-ee3f-bdf7-773eff02fcdb@levkowetz.com> <704ac605-c23e-88e3-bfde-16720509a108@htt-consult.com> <65c7cd21-3b27-4205-cf4a-7b56288be875@levkowetz.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 06:06:11 -0500
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] forcing new line in Hanging lists for definitions
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On 12/12/19 1:04 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> On 2019-12-12 01:35, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> On 12/11/19 6:01 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> The attribute in v3 is is newline="true" (default: "false").  In v2 you
>>> need to use <vspace/>.
>> Where/how is newline= used?  I tried a couple things, but the parser did
>> not like my attempts.
> This should do the trick, using v3 elements:
>
>   <dl newline="true">
>      <dt>word:</dt>
>      <dd>definition</dd>
>      <dt>anotherword:</dt>
>      <dd>another definition</dd>
>   </dl>


The <dl> tag is new to me.  Shows how much of this stuff I do.  I will 
read up on it and give it a try instead of my old standby <list>...

thanks

>
>> thanks
>>
>>> On 2019-12-11 22:45, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>>>> Kramdown-rfc (http://rfc.space):
>>>>
>>>>> (1.0.2:) An IAL attribute "vspace" can be added to a definition list to break after the definition term:
>>>>>
>>>>> {: vspace="0"}
>>>>> word:
>>>>> : definition
>>>>>
>>>>> anotherword:
>>>>> : another definition
>>>> Translate that to XML to remind me how to do this in RFCXMLv2:
>>>>
>>>> $ kramdown-rfc2629
>>>> {: vspace="0"}
>>>> word:
>>>> : definition
>>>>
>>>> anotherword:
>>>> : another definition
>>>> ➔
>>>> <t><list style="hanging">
>>>>     <t hangText='word:'><vspace blankLines='0'/>
>>>>     definition</t>
>>>>     <t hangText='anotherword:'><vspace blankLines='0'/>
>>>>     another definition</t>
>>>> </list></t>
>>>> $
>>>>
>>>> ISTR this was fixed in v3 by introducing proper definition lists with an attribute to request the usual formatting (<dl hanging=“false”>, but I think this is unstable: https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-xml2rfc-v3-bis/issues/38).
>>>>
>>>> Grüße, Carsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 11, 2019, at 22:32, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like the way Hanging lists work when you have long names you are defining.  I would like the definition to start on a new line below the term.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>       <section title="Definitions">
>>>>>       <t>
>>>>>           <list style="hanging">
>>>>>           <t hangText="Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):">
>>>>>               The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>>>>>               permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
>>>>>               padding as the padding rule.
>>>>>           </t>
>>>>>           <t hangText="cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):">
>>>>>               Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their
>>>>>               use of the function.
>>>>>           </t>
>>>>>           <t hangText="SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):">
>>>>>               A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
>>>>>           </t>
>>>>>           <t hangText="XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):">
>>>>>               A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
>>>>>               the output can be extended to any desired length.
>>>>>           </t>
>>>>>           </list>
>>>>>       </t>
>>>>>       </section>
>>>>>
>>>>> which produces:
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.3.  Definitions
>>>>>
>>>>>      Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):  The family of all
>>>>>         sponge functions with a KECCAK-f permutation as the underlying
>>>>>         function and multi-rate padding as the padding rule.
>>>>>
>>>>>      cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):  Extends the SHAKE scheme
>>>>>         to allow users to customize their use of the function.
>>>>>
>>>>>      SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):  A secure hash that allows for
>>>>>         an arbitrary output length.
>>>>>
>>>>>      XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):  A function on bit strings (also
>>>>>         called messages) in which the output can be extended to any
>>>>>         desired length.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to get the content after those : to start on a new line for better readability (at least in my opinion).
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xml2rfc mailing list
>>>>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xml2rfc mailing list
>>>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>>>
>>


From nobody Thu Dec 12 05:23:59 2019
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To: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v2.37.1
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v2.37.1, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (2.37.1) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Fixed a bug in the text formatter pagination code where it incorrectly 
    tried to annotate Comment and PI nodes with page number information.

  * Updated the v2v3 converter to do essentially what it did before v2.37
    with respect to unicode downcoding, but with more explicit calls.

  * Added a base writer method to downcode reference punctuation.

  * Moved the list of (tag, attr) combinations that permit unicode values 
    into util.unicode.  Rewrote docwncode_punctuation() to only touch 
    punctuation.

  * Restored lost trailing text after <contact> in <t> context for text 
    output.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  12 Dec 2019 12:42:15 +0000

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
  'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/2.37.1'

Regards,

	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


From nobody Thu Dec 12 07:01:29 2019
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Thank you for the great work.

I depend on its well working.

Alex

Le 12/12/2019 à 14:23, Henrik Levkowetz a écrit :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release,
> v2.37.1, generated when running the mkrelease script.
> 
> Release notes:
> 
> xml2rfc (2.37.1) ietf; urgency=medium
> 
>    * Fixed a bug in the text formatter pagination code where it incorrectly
>      tried to annotate Comment and PI nodes with page number information.
> 
>    * Updated the v2v3 converter to do essentially what it did before v2.37
>      with respect to unicode downcoding, but with more explicit calls.
> 
>    * Added a base writer method to downcode reference punctuation.
> 
>    * Moved the list of (tag, attr) combinations that permit unicode values
>      into util.unicode.  Rewrote docwncode_punctuation() to only touch
>      punctuation.
> 
>    * Restored lost trailing text after <contact> in <t> context for text
>      output.
> 
>   -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  12 Dec 2019 12:42:15 +0000
> 
> The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
> and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
> installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
> use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
> manually.
> 
> The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
>    'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/2.37.1'
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Henrik
> 	(via the mkrelease script)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
> 


From nobody Thu Dec 12 07:09:13 2019
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
To: xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <e8a25961-5ac9-d35e-77dd-bf86f45cd077@gmail.com>
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Subject: [xml2rfc] draft-name-blah.pdf instead of draft-name-blah.txt.pdf at the output of xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org
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Hello,

I would like xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org to generate a pdf file with the 
filename:

    draft-name-blah.pdf
    instead of
    draft-name-blah.txt.pdf

I need this in order to talk about it to colleagues, by employing terms 
such as "please generate the txt file", or "please read the pdf file".

The txt and pdf files are two different files, but their extensions are 
concatenated into one.  On windows it is displayed as:

    "draft-name-blah.txt   Adobe Acrobat Document"

It is a contradiction in terms.

Alex


From nobody Thu Dec 12 12:52:09 2019
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 15:51:49 -0500
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Subject: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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I got one draft submitted with the change to <dl> tags, but on the 
second, the txt built with xml2rfc --v3, but when I did the submit I got 
errors:

One or more XML validation errors occurred when processing the XML file:
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 124: Element dl is not 
declared in t list of possible children
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for 
element dl
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for 
attribute newline of element dl
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 126: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 127: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 132: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 133: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 136: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 137: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 141: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 142: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 145: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 146: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 151: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 152: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 156: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 157: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 161: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 162: No declaration for 
element dd

Line 124 through 167 is:

     <t>
       <dl newline="true">
         <dt>Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
         <dd>
             The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
             permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
             padding as the padding rule.
         </dd>
         <dt>KMAC (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
         <dd>
             A PRF and keyed hash function based on KECCAK.
         </dd>
         <dt>cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):</dt>
         <dd>
             Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their
             use of the function.
         </dd>
         <dt>SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):</dt>
         <dd>
             A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
         </dd>
         <dt>PRF (Pseudorandom Function):</dt>
         <dd>
             A function that can be used to generate output from a
             random seed such that the output is computationally
             indistinguishable from truly random output.
         </dd>
         <dt>capacity:</dt>
         <dd>
             In the sponge construction, the width of the underlying
             function minus the rate.
         </dd>
         <dt>rate:</dt>
         <dd>
             In the sponge construction, the number of input bits
             processed per invocation of the underlying function.
         </dd>
         <dt>XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):</dt>
         <dd>
             A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
             the output can be extended to any desired length.
         </dd>
       </dl>
     </t>

What am I missing?


thanks



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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 12.12.2019 21:51, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> I got one draft submitted with the change to <dl> tags, but on the
> second, the txt built with xml2rfc --v3, but when I did the submit I got
> errors:
>
> One or more XML validation errors occurred when processing the XML file:
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 124: Element dl is not
> declared in t list of possible children
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for
> element dl
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for
> attribute newline of element dl
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 126: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 127: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 132: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 133: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 136: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 137: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 141: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 142: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 145: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 146: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 151: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 152: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 156: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 157: No declaration for
> element dd
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 161: No declaration for
> element dt
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 162: No declaration for
> element dd
>
> Line 124 through 167 is:
>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <t>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <dl newline=3D"true">
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>Keccak (KECCAK Message Authen=
tication Code):</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The family of =
all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 permutation as=
 the underlying function and multi-rate
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 padding as the=
 padding rule.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>KMAC (KECCAK Message Authenti=
cation Code):</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A PRF and keye=
d hash function based on KECCAK.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>cSHAKE (The customizable SHAK=
E function):</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Extends the SH=
AKE scheme to allow users to customize their
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 use of the fun=
ction.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm =
KECCAK):</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A secure hash =
that allows for an arbitrary output length.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>PRF (Pseudorandom Function):<=
/dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A function tha=
t can be used to generate output from a
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 random seed su=
ch that the output is computationally
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 indistinguisha=
ble from truly random output.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>capacity:</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In the sponge =
construction, the width of the underlying
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 function minus=
 the rate.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>rate:</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In the sponge =
construction, the number of input bits
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 processed per =
invocation of the underlying function.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dt>XOF (eXtendable-Output Functi=
on):</dt>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A function on =
bit strings (also called messages) in which
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the output can=
 be extended to any desired length.
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </dd>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </dl>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </t>
>
> What am I missing?

<dl> is a section-level element, so it can not appear inside <t>. See
<https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7991.html#element.dl>.

Best regards, Julian


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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <b4acf21c-efb3-8f85-874b-f2a0d627e587@htt-consult.com> <ccab475a-9ad3-b33d-8497-ad16d1a009e9@gmx.de>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
Message-ID: <d5302682-d2df-2caf-31de-3d73f372c254@htt-consult.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 05:30:45 -0500
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/cpb2tH-0BGEFlNscVx4jDntckE8>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 12/13/19 12:12 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 12.12.2019 21:51, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> I got one draft submitted with the change to <dl> tags, but on the
>> second, the txt built with xml2rfc --v3, but when I did the submit I got
>> errors:
>>
>> One or more XML validation errors occurred when processing the XML file:
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 124: Element dl is not
>> declared in t list of possible children
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for
>> element dl
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for
>> attribute newline of element dl
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 126: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 127: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 132: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 133: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 136: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 137: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 141: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 142: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 145: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 146: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 151: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 152: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 156: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 157: No declaration for
>> element dd
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 161: No declaration for
>> element dt
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 162: No declaration for
>> element dd
>>
>> Line 124 through 167 is:
>>
>>      <t>
>>        <dl newline="true">
>>          <dt>Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f
>>              permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate
>>              padding as the padding rule.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>KMAC (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              A PRF and keyed hash function based on KECCAK.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their
>>              use of the function.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>PRF (Pseudorandom Function):</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              A function that can be used to generate output from a
>>              random seed such that the output is computationally
>>              indistinguishable from truly random output.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>capacity:</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              In the sponge construction, the width of the underlying
>>              function minus the rate.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>rate:</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              In the sponge construction, the number of input bits
>>              processed per invocation of the underlying function.
>>          </dd>
>>          <dt>XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):</dt>
>>          <dd>
>>              A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which
>>              the output can be extended to any desired length.
>>          </dd>
>>        </dl>
>>      </t>
>>
>> What am I missing?
>
> <dl> is a section-level element, so it can not appear inside <t>. See
> <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7991.html#element.dl>.
>
> Best regards, Julian

OK. I will make the change, but it worked just fine in:

draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01

And in both cases xml2rfc --v3 had no problem with it.



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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <b4acf21c-efb3-8f85-874b-f2a0d627e587@htt-consult.com> <ccab475a-9ad3-b33d-8497-ad16d1a009e9@gmx.de> <d5302682-d2df-2caf-31de-3d73f372c254@htt-consult.com>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 13.12.2019 11:30, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> ...
> OK. I will make the change, but it worked just fine in:
>
> draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01
>
> And in both cases xml2rfc --v3 had no problem with it.
> ...

Please provide the sources for both files, and I can have a look what's
different.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Fri Dec 13 05:46:06 2019
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <b4acf21c-efb3-8f85-874b-f2a0d627e587@htt-consult.com> <ccab475a-9ad3-b33d-8497-ad16d1a009e9@gmx.de> <d5302682-d2df-2caf-31de-3d73f372c254@htt-consult.com> <10d33dfd-411c-14cf-51ae-79e28b91fa0c@gmx.de>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:45:28 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------8D2C7DD5D4E7A8D3C5ED74D1
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Here they are.

On 12/13/19 6:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 13.12.2019 11:30, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> ...
>> OK. I will make the change, but it worked just fine in:
>>
>> draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01
>>
>> And in both cases xml2rfc --v3 had no problem with it.
>> ...
>
> Please provide the sources for both files, and I can have a look what's
> different.
>
> Best regards, Julian


--------------8D2C7DD5D4E7A8D3C5ED74D1
Content-Type: text/xml; charset=UTF-8;
 name="draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml"

﻿<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE rfc SYSTEM "rfc2629.dtd" [
]>

<?xml-stylesheet type='text/xsl' href='rfc2629.xslt' ?>
 <?rfc toc="yes" ?>
 <?rfc symrefs="yes" ?>
 <?rfc sortrefs="yes"?> 
 <?rfc compact="yes" ?>
 <?rfc subcompact="no" ?>  
 <?rfc iprnotified="no" ?>
  <?rfc strict="no" ?>

<rfc category="std" docName="draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-02" ipr="trust200902">

<front>
<title abbrev="HIP New Crypto">New Cryptographic Algorithms for HIP</title>
	<author fullname="Robert Moskowitz" initials="R" surname="Moskowitz">
    <organization>HTT Consulting</organization>
    <address>
      <postal> 
	    <street></street>
        <city>Oak Park</city>
        <region>MI</region>
        <code>48237</code>
        <country>USA</country>
      </postal>
      <email>rgm@labs.htt-consult.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
	<author fullname="Stuart W. Card" initials="S." surname="Card">
	<organization>AX Enterprize</organization>
	<address>
	  <postal>
	    <street>4947 Commercial Drive</street>
	    <city>Yorkville</city>
	    <region>NY</region>
	    <code>13495</code>
	    <country>USA</country>
	  </postal>
	  <email>stu.card@axenterprize.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
	<author fullname="Adam Wiethuechter" initials="A." surname="Wiethuechter">
	<organization>AX Enterprize</organization>
	<address>
	  <postal>
	    <street>4947 Commercial Drive</street>
	    <city>Yorkville</city>
	    <region>NY</region>
	    <code>13495</code>
	    <country>USA</country>
	  </postal>
	  <email>adam.wiethuechter@axenterprize.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
<date year="2019" />
   <area>Internet</area>
   <workgroup>HIP</workgroup>
    <keyword>RFC</keyword>
     <keyword>Request for Comments</keyword>
     <keyword>I-D</keyword>
     <keyword>Internet-Draft</keyword>
     <keyword>HIP</keyword>
<abstract>
<t>
	This document provides new cryptographic algorithms to be used with 
	HIP.  The Edwards Elliptic Curve and the Keccak sponge functions 
	are the main focus. The HIP parameters and processing instructions 
	impacted by these algorithms are defined.
</t>
</abstract>
</front>
<middle>   
<section title="Introduction">
<t> 
	This document adds new cryptographic algorithms for <xref 
	target="RFC7401">HIPv2</xref>. This includes:
	<list style="symbols">
    <t>
		New elliptic curves for ECDH.
    </t>
    <t>
		The Edwards Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (EdDSA) 
		used in Host Identities (HI) and for Base Exchange (BEX) 
		signatures.
    </t>
	<t>
		Hashes used in Host Identity Tag (HIT) generation, and 
		wherever else hashes are needed.
	</t>
	<t>
		Keyed hashes used for KEYMAT generation and packet MACing 
		operations.
	</t>
	<t>
		AEAD and stream ciphers to use in HIP and HIP enabled secure 
		communication protocols.
	</t>
	</list>
</t> 
<t>
	The hashes and encryption are all built on the <xref 
	target="Keccak">Keccak</xref> sponge function.
</t>
<t>
	These additions reflect selection of advances in the field of 
	cryptography that would best benefit HIP, particularly in 
	constrained devices and communications.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="terms" title="Terms and Definitions">
<section title="Requirements Terminology">
	<t>
		The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL 
		NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", 
		"MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as 
		described in BCP 14 <xref target="RFC2119" /> <xref 
		target="RFC8174" /> when, and only when, they appear in all 
		capitals, as shown here.
	`</t>
</section>
<section title="Definitions">
	<t>
	  <dl newline="true">
		<dt>Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
		<dd>
			The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f 
			permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate 
			padding as the padding rule.
		</dd>
		<dt>KMAC (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
		<dd>
			A PRF and keyed hash function based on KECCAK.
		</dd>
		<dt>cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):</dt>
		<dd>
			Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their 
			use of the function.
		</dd>
		<dt>SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):</dt>
		<dd>
			A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
		</dd>
		<dt>PRF (Pseudorandom Function):</dt>
		<dd>
			A function that can be used to generate output from a 
			random seed such that the output is computationally 
			indistinguishable from truly random output.
		</dd>
		<dt>capacity:</dt>
		<dd>
			In the sponge construction, the width of the underlying 
			function minus the rate.
		</dd>
		<dt>rate:</dt>
		<dd>
			In the sponge construction, the number of input bits 
			processed per invocation of the underlying function.
		</dd>
		<dt>XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):</dt>
		<dd>
			A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which 
			the output can be extended to any desired length.
		</dd>
	  </dl>
	</t>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="HIP_param" title="HIP Parameter values for new Crytpo">
<t>
	HIP parameters carry information that is necessary for establishing 
	and maintaining a HIP association.  For example, the device's 
	public keys as well as the signaling for negotiating ciphers and 
	payload handling are encapsulated in HIP parameters.  Additional 
	information, meaningful for end hosts or middleboxes, may also be 
	included in HIP parameters.  The specification of the HIP 
	parameters and their mapping to HIP packets and packet types is 
	flexible to allow HIP extensions to define new parameters and new 
	protocol behavior.
</t>
<section anchor="ecdh" title="Elliptic Curves for Diffie-Hellman">
<t>
	Elliptic curves Curve25519 and Curve448 <xref target="RFC7748">RFC 
	7748</xref>) are specified here for use in the HIP Diffie-Hellman 
	exchange.
</t>
<t>
	Curve25519 and Curve448 are already defined in Section 5.2.1 of 
	<xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>, using the HIP-DEX CKDF.  
	Here they are defined for using the new KMAC <xref 
	target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 800-185</xref> derived KDF in 
	<xref target="hip_keymat" />.
</t>
<section anchor="Diffie_Hellman" title="DIFFIE_HELLMAN">
<t>
	The DIFFIE_HELLMAN parameter may be included in selected HIP 
	packets based on the DH Group ID selected.  The DIFFIE_HELLMAN 
	parameter is defined in Section 5.2.7 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.
</t>
<t>
	The following Elliptic Curves are defined here:
</t>
    <figure>
      <artwork>
Group                              KDF              Value

Curve25519 [RFC7748]               KKDF             13
Curve448   [RFC7748]               KKDF             14
      </artwork>
    </figure>

<t>
	A new KDF for KEYMAT, Section 6.5 of <xref target="RFC7401"/> and 
	Section 6.3 of <xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref> using 
	Keccak is defined in <xref target="hip_keymat" />.
</t>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="EdDSA" title="Edward Digital Signature Algorithm">
<t>
	Edwards-Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (EdDSA) (<xref 
	target="RFC8032">RFC 8032</xref>) are specified here for use as 
	Host Identities (HIs).
</t>
<section anchor="host_id" title="HOST_ID">
<t>
	The HOST_ID parameter specifies the public key algorithm, and for 
	elliptic curves, a name.  The HOST_ID parameter is defined in 
	Section 5.2.19 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     Algorithm
     profiles         Values

     EdDSA            13 [RFC8032]       (RECOMMENDED)
    </artwork>
</figure>

	<t>
	For hosts that implement EdDSA as the algorithm, the following ECC 
	curves are available:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     Algorithm    Curve            Values

     EdDSA        RESERVED         0
     EdDSA        EdDSA25519       1 [RFC8032]
     EdDSA        EdDSA25519ph     2 [RFC8032]
     EdDSA        EdDSA448         3 [RFC8032]
     EdDSA        EdDSA448ph       4 [RFC8032]
    </artwork>
</figure>
</section>
<section anchor="hit_suite_list" title="HIT_SUITE_LIST">
	<t>
		The HIT_SUITE_LIST parameter contains a list of the supported 
		HIT suite IDs of the Responder. Based on the HIT_SUITE_LIST, 
		the Initiator can determine which source HIT Suite IDs are 
		supported by the Responder. The HIT_SUITE_LIST parameter is 
		defined in Section 5.2.10 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.
	</t>
	<t>
		The following HIT Suite ID is defined, and the relationship 
		between the four-bit ID value used in the OGA ID field and the 
		eight-bit encoding within the HIT_SUITE_LIST ID field is 
		clarified:
	</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     HIT Suite       Four-bit ID    Eight-bit encoding
     RESERVED            0             0x00
     EdDSA/SHAKE128      5             0x50           (RECOMMENDED)
    </artwork>
</figure>
<t>
	The following table provides more detail on the above HIT Suite 
	combinations.  The input for each generation algorithm is the 
	encoding of the HI as defined in <xref target="gener_hit" />. The 
	output is 96 bits long and is directly used in the ORCHID.
</t>
	<texttable title="HIT Suites" anchor="table_hit_suites">
	<ttcol align="right">Index</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">Hash function</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">HMAC</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">Signature algorithm family</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">Description</ttcol>
	<c>5</c> <c>SHAKE128</c> <c>KMAC128</c> <c>EdDSA</c> <c>EdDSA HI hashed with cSHAKE128, output is 96 bits</c>

	</texttable>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="hash" title="Hashing with the Keccak Function">
<t>
	The <xref target="Keccak">Keccak</xref> sponge function is the 
	basis for the new SHA-3, standard <xref target="NIST.FIPS.202">NIST 
	FIPS 202</xref>, and the customized XOF functions in <xref 
	target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 800-185</xref>.  These are used 
	here as an alternative to all the hashing functions in HIP.
</t>
<t>
	Hardware implementation of Keccak in VHDL is available from <xref 
	target="Keccak">Keccak</xref>.
</t>
<section anchor="Keccak_P" title="The Keccak Permutation">
<t>
	Keccak is described as a sponge function.  The analogy to a 
	sponge is that an arbitrary number of input bits are "absorbed" 
	into the state of the function, after which an arbitrary number of 
	output bits are "squeezed" out of its state.
	<list >
<t>
		The Keccak function is defined to have a width of b bits.  
		Where b is the capacity (c) + rate (r).
</t>
<t>
	The rate is the number of bits "fed" into the sponge at a time.
</t>
<t>
	The capacity is twice the desired hash "strength" and part of the 
	sponge width.
</t>
	</list>
</t>
<t>
	b is one of the set {25, 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600}.  In FIPS 
	202, b=1600.  Thus a hash strength of 128 bits can be delivered 
	with c=256 and r=1344, or 168 byte segment input to the sponge.
</t>
<t>
	Keccak can also provide a hash strength of 128 bit with b=800 
	(r=544 or 68 bytes) and b=400 (r=144 or 18 bytes).  256 bit 
	strength can only be provided with b=1600 or 800.
</t>
<t>
	FIPS 202 does not specify use of these smaller values for b which 
	may be preferred in memory constrained devices, processing 
	relatively short input strings.  Future work will determine if the 
	smaller values for b result in a significant performance/memory 
	improvement to warrant their use.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="rhash" title="RHASH">
<t>
	The RHASH is the general term used throughout <xref 
	target="RFC7401" /> to refer to the hash used for a specific HIT 
	suite.  For this addendum SHAKE128 is used, even for HIs of 
	EdDSA448.
</t>
<t>
	Unless otherwise specified, L of SHAKE128 is 256, resulting in a 
	similar output to SHA256.  Any truncation used for, older, fixed 
	output hashes is still used.  This is to simplify code 
	integration.  One exception to this is in <xref target="gener_hit" 
	/>.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="hip_macs" title="HIP_MAC and HIP_MAC2">
<t>
	The HIP_MAC and HIP_MAC2 parameters in <xref target="RFC7401" /> 
	use HMAC <xref target="RFC2104" />.  This performs two hashes on a 
	string with a key for a keyed hash the length of the underlying hash.
</t>
<t>
	Here, KMAC from <xref target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 
	800-185</xref> is used.  This is a single pass using the underlying 
	cSHAKE function.  The function call is:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     KMAC128(Key, Input String, 256, "")
    </artwork>
</figure>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="keyak" title="HIP Cipher">
<t>
	HIP encrypted parameters use the HIP_CIPHER, Section 5.2.8 of <xref 
	target="RFC7401" />.  The Keccak Keyak cipher, <xref 
	target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>, is recommended. 
	Keyak is a candidate in the NIST Lightweight Cryptography 
	competition and is consistent with the overall approach in this 
	addendum to use Keccak functions for simplicity in design and 
	implementation.
</t>
<section anchor="hip_cipher" title="HIP_CIPHER">
<t>
	The HIP_CIPHER parameter values for Keyak are:
</t>
<figure>
      <artwork>hip_cipher
     Suite ID           Value

     RIVER KEYAK        6     (Keyak)
     LAKE KEYAK         7     (Keyak)
      </artwork>
</figure>

<t>
	For use as the HIP Cipher, the TAG generated in Keyak is length 0. 
	The Keyak SUV is the key plus IV specified for the encrypted 
	parameter.  River Keyak MAY be used for <xref 
	target="Keyak_Cipher"> </xref>, in place of AES-CTR.
</t>
<t>
	Lake Keyak can provide 256 bits of security by following the 
	recommendations for the Keyak cipher.
</t>
</section>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="gener_hit" title="Generating a HIT from an HI">
<t>
	The EdDSA/cSHAKE based HITs vary slightly the ORCHID generation 
	method described in section 3.2 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.  The 
	XOF functionality of cSHAKE produces an output of L bits.  This 
	replaces the Encode_96 function in the ORCHID generation.
</t>
<t>
	For identities that are EdDSA public keys, ORCHIDs will be 
	generated per the process defined in <xref 
	target="I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake">Using cSHAKE in ORCHIDs</xref>
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="hip_keymat" title="HIP KEYMAT Generation">
<t>
	The KMAC function provides a new, more efficient, key derivation 
	function over HKDF <xref target="RFC5869" />.  This will be 
	referred to as KKDF.
</t>
<t>
	The choice of KMAC128 or KMAC256 is based on the strength of the 
	output key material.  For 256 bits of strength equivalent to 
	HMAC-SHA256, use KMAC256.  Per <xref 
	target="NIST.SP.800-56Cr1">NIST SP 800-56Cr1</xref>, Section 4.1, 
	Option 3:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     OKM = KMAC[128|256](salt | info, IKM, L, S)
    </artwork>
</figure>
<t>
	L is the derived key bit length.  Since 4 HIP keys are "drawn" from 
	this output, the length is 4 * HIP_key_size.  Per <xref 
	target="ASIACRYPT-2017">ASIACRYPT 2017, pp. 606-637</xref> each of 
	these derived keys will have the same strength as the 
	Diffie-Hellman shared secret.
</t>
<t>
	S is the byte string 01001011 || 01000100 || 01000110, which 
	represents the sequence of characters “K”, “D”, and “F” in 8-bit 
	ASCII.
</t>
<t>
	Salt and info are derived as defined in <xref target="RFC7401" /> 
	or <xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>.  There are special 
	security considerations for IKM per <xref target="RFC7748" />.  The 
	two HIs MUST be used in constructing IKM as follows:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     IKM = Diffie-Hellman secret | HI-R |  HI-I
    </artwork>
</figure>
<t>
	These are separately DER encoded.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="PRF" title="Using Keccak for a Pseudorandom Function">
<t>
	Appendix B of <xref target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 800-185</xref> 
	defines how to use SHAKE, cSHAKE, or KMAC as a PRF.
</t>
</section>

<section anchor="IANA" title="IANA Considerations">
    <t>
	  IANA will need to make the following changes to the "Host 
	  Identity Protocol (HIP) Parameters" registries:
    </t>
	<t>
	  <dl newline="true">
        <dt>Diffie Hellman:</dt>
		<dd>
		  This document defines the new Curve25519 and Curve448 for the 
		  Diffie-Hellman exchange (see <xref target="Diffie_Hellman" 
		  />).
        </dd>
        <dt>Host ID:</dt>
		<dd>
			This document defines the new EdDSA Host ID (see <xref 
			target="host_id" />).
        </dd>
		<dt>HIT Suite ID:</dt>
		<dd>
			This document defines the new HIT Suite of EdDSA/cSHAKE 
			(see <xref target="hit_suite_list" />).
		</dd>
		<dt>HIP Cipher:</dt>
		<dd>
			This document defines the new Keyak ciphers for HIP 
			encrypted parameters (see <xref target="hip_cipher" />).
		</dd>
	  </dl>
	</t>
</section>
<section title="Security Considerations">
<section anchor="keymat_security" title="Keymat vulnerabilities">
<t>
	<xref target="RFC7748" /> warns about using Curve25519 and Curve448 
	in Diffie-Hellman for key derivation:
</t>
<t>
	Designers using these curves should be aware that for each public 
	key, there are several publicly computable public keys that are 
	equivalent to it, i.e., they produce the same shared secrets.  Thus 
	using a public key as an identifier and knowledge of a shared 
	secret as proof of ownership (without including the public keys in 
	the key derivation) might lead to subtle vulnerabilities.
</t>
<t>
	This applies to <xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>, but may 
	have broader consequences.  Thus the two Host IDs are included with 
	the Diffie-Hellman secret.
</t>
</section>
</section>
<section title="Acknowledgments">
<t>
	Quynh Dang of NIST gave considerable guidance on using Keccak and 
	the NIST supporting documents.  Joan Deamen of the Keccak team was 
	especially helpful in many aspects of using Keccak, particularly 
	with the KEYMAT section and the strength of the derived keys.
</t>
</section>
</middle>
<back>
<references title="Normative References">
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.8174.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-185.xml?anchor=NIST.SP.800-185"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56Cr1.xml?anchor=NIST.SP.800-56Cr1"?>
</references>
<references title="Informative References">
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.2104.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.5869.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.7401.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.7748.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.8032.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.I-D.ietf-hip-dex.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake.xml"?>
	<!-- <?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.1007/978-3-319-70697-9_21.xml?anchor=ASIACRYPT-2017"?> -->
<reference anchor="ASIACRYPT-2017">
  <front>
    <title>Full-State Keyed Duplex with Built-In Multi-user Support</title>
    <author initials="J." surname="Daemen" fullname="Joan Daemen">
      <organization></organization>
    </author>
    <author initials="B." surname="Mennink" fullname="Bart Mennink">
      <organization></organization>
    </author>
    <author initials="G." surname="Van Assche" fullname="Gilles Van Assche">
      <organization></organization>
    </author>
    <date year="2017"/>
  </front>
  <seriesInfo name="Advances in Cryptology - ASIACRYPT 2017" value="pp. 606-637"/>
  <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.1007/978-3-319-70697-9_21"/>
</reference>
<reference anchor="Keccak" target="https://keccak.team/index.html">
  <front>
    <title>The Keccak Function</title>
<author fullname="Guido Bertoni" initials="G." surname="Bertoni"> 
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Joan Daemen" initials="J." surname="Daemen"> 
	<organization>Radboud University</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Michaël Peeters" initials="M." surname="Peeters"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Gilles Van Assche" initials="G." surname="Van Assche"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Ronny Van Keer" initials="R." surname="Van Keer"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<date/>
</front>
</reference>
<reference anchor="Keyak_Cipher" target="https://keccak.team/keyak.html">
  <front>
    <title>The Keyak Cipher</title>
<author fullname="Guido Bertoni" initials="G." surname="Bertoni"> 
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Joan Daemen" initials="J." surname="Daemen"> 
	<organization>Radboud University</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Michaël Peeters" initials="M." surname="Peeters"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Gilles Van Assche" initials="G." surname="Van Assche"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Ronny Van Keer" initials="R." surname="Van Keer"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<date/>
</front>
</reference>
</references>
</back>
</rfc>

--------------8D2C7DD5D4E7A8D3C5ED74D1
Content-Type: text/xml; charset=UTF-8;
 name="draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01.xml"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01.xml"

﻿<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE rfc SYSTEM "rfc2629.dtd" [
]>

<?xml-stylesheet type='text/xsl' href='rfc2629.xslt' ?>
 <?rfc toc="yes" ?>
 <?rfc symrefs="yes" ?>
 <?rfc sortrefs="yes"?> 
 <?rfc compact="yes" ?>
 <?rfc subcompact="no" ?>  
 <?rfc iprnotified="no" ?>
  <?rfc strict="no" ?>

<rfc category="std" docName="draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01" ipr="trust200902">

<front>
<title abbrev="ORCHID cSHAKE">Using cSHAKE in ORCHIDs</title>
	<author fullname="Robert Moskowitz" initials="R" surname="Moskowitz">
    <organization>HTT Consulting</organization>
    <address>
      <postal> 
	    <street></street>
        <city>Oak Park</city>
        <region>MI</region>
        <code>48237</code>
        <country>USA</country>
      </postal>
      <email>rgm@labs.htt-consult.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
	<author fullname="Stuart W. Card" initials="S." surname="Card">
	<organization>AX Enterprize</organization>
	<address>
	  <postal>
	    <street>4947 Commercial Drive</street>
	    <city>Yorkville</city>
	    <region>NY</region>
	    <code>13495</code>
	    <country>USA</country>
	  </postal>
	  <email>stu.card@axenterprize.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
	<author fullname="Adam Wiethuechter" initials="A." surname="Wiethuechter">
	<organization>AX Enterprize</organization>
	<address>
	  <postal>
	    <street>4947 Commercial Drive</street>
	    <city>Yorkville</city>
	    <region>NY</region>
	    <code>13495</code>
	    <country>USA</country>
	  </postal>
	  <email>adam.wiethuechter@axenterprize.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
<date year="2019" />
   <area>Internet</area>
   <workgroup>HIP</workgroup>
    <keyword>RFC</keyword>
     <keyword>Request for Comments</keyword>
     <keyword>I-D</keyword>
     <keyword>Internet-Draft</keyword>
     <keyword>HIP</keyword>
<abstract>
<t>
	This document specifies how to use the cSHAKE hash for ORCHID 
	generation and allows for varying sized hashes in the ORCHID along 
	with additional information within the ORCHID.  It is an addendum to 
	<xref target="RFC7343">ORCHIDv2</xref>.
</t>
</abstract>
</front>
<middle>   
<section title="Introduction">
<t> 
	This document adds the <xref target="Keccak">Keccak</xref> based 
	cSHAKE XOF hash function from <xref target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST 
	SP 800-185</xref> to <xref target="RFC7343">ORCHIDv2</xref>.  
	cSHAKE is a variable output length hash function.  As such it does 
	not need the truncation operation that other hashes need.  The 
	invocation of cSHAKE specifies the desired number of bits in the 
	hash output.
</t> 
<t>
	cSHAKE is used, rather than SHAKE from <xref 
	target="NIST.FIPS.202">NIST FIPS 202</xref>, as cSHAKE has a 
	parameter 'S' as a customization bit string.  This parameter will be 
	used for including the ORCHID Context Identifier in a standard 
	fashion.
</t>
<t>
	An additional change to ORCHID construction will allow for shorter 
	hash output lengths to permit inclusion of additional information 
	like <xref target="I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit">Hierarchical 
	HITs</xref> into the ORCHID.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="terms" title="Terms, Notation and Definitions">
<section title="Requirements Terminology">
	<t>
		The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL 
		NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", 
		"MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as 
		described in BCP 14 <xref target="RFC2119" /> <xref 
		target="RFC8174" /> when, and only when, they appear in all 
		capitals, as shown here.
	`</t>
</section>
<section anchor="notation" title="Notation">
	<t>
		<list style="hanging">
		  <t hangText="| ">
			Signifies concatenation of information - e.g., X | Y is the 
			concatenation of X and Y.
		  </t>
		</list>
	</t>
</section>
<section title="Definitions">
	<t>
	  <dl newline="true">
		<dt>Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
		<dd>
			The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f 
			permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate 
			padding as the padding rule.
		</dd>
		<dt>cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):</dt>
		<dd>
			Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their 
			use of the function.
		</dd>
		<dt>SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):</dt>
		<dd>
			A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
		</dd>
		<dt>XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):</dt>
		<dd>
			A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which 
			the output can be extended to any desired length.
		</dd>
	  </dl>
	</t>
	</section>
</section>
<section anchor="HCGA" title="Adding additional information to the ORCHID">
<t>
	ORCHIDv2 <xref target="RFC7343"></xref> is currently defined as 
	consisting of three components:
    <figure>
      <artwork><![CDATA[
ORCHID     :=  Prefix | OGA ID | Encode_96( Hash )

where:

Prefix          : A constant 28-bit-long bitstring value 
                  (IANA IPv6 assigned).

OGA ID          : A 4-bit long identifier for the Hash_function
                  in use within the specific usage context.

Encode_96( )    : An extraction function in which output is obtained
                  by extracting the middle 96-bit-long bitstring
                  from the argument bitstring. 

      ]]></artwork>
    </figure>
</t>
<t>
	This addendum will be constructed as follows:
    <figure>
      <artwork><![CDATA[
ORCHID     :=  Prefix | OGA ID | Info (n) | Hash (m)

where:

Prefix          : A constant 28-bit-long bitstring value 
                  (IANA IPv6 assigned).

OGA ID          : A 4-bit long identifier for the Hash_function
                  in use within the specific usage context.

Info (n)        : n bits of information that define a use of the
                  ORCHID n can be zero, that is no additional
                  information.

Hash (m)        : An extraction function in which output is m bits.

n + m = 96 bits

      ]]></artwork>
    </figure>
</t>
<t>
	The 96 bits currently allocated to the Encode_96 function can be 
	divided in any manner between the additional information and the 
	hash output.  Care must be taken in determining the size of the 
	hash portion, taking into account risks like pre-image attacks. 
	Thus 64 bits as used in Hierarchical HITs may be as small as is 
	acceptable.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="Decode" title="ORCHID Decoding">
    <t>
	  With this addendum, the decoding of an ORCHID is determined by 
	  the Prefix and OGA ID.  ORCHIDv2 <xref target="RFC7343"></xref> 
	  decoding is selected when the Prefix is: 2001:20::/28.
    </t>
    <t>
	  For Heirarchical HITs, the decoding is determined by the presence 
	  of the HHIT Prefix as specified in the HHIT document.
    </t>
</section>
<section anchor="Encode" title="ORCHID Encoding">
<t>
	ORCHIDv2 has a number of inputs including a Context ID, some header 
	bits, the hash algorithm, and the input bitstream, normally just 
	the public key. The output is a 96 bit value.
</t>
<t>
	This addendum adds a different encoding process to that currently 
	used.  The input to the hash function explicitly includes all the 
	fixed header content plus the Context ID.  The fixed header content 
	consists of the Prefix, OGA ID, and the Additional Information.  
	Secondly, the length of the resulting hash is set by the rules set 
	by the Prefix/OGA ID.  In the case of Hierarchical HITs, this is 64 
	bits.
</t>
<t>
	To achieve the variable length output in a consistent manner, the 
	cSHAKE hash is used.  For this purpose, cSHAKE128 is appropriate.  
	The the cSHAKE function call for this addendum is:
</t>
<t>
	<figure>
        <artwork>
    cSHAKE128(Input, L, "", Context ID)

    Input      :=  Prefix | OGA ID | Additional Information | HOST_ID
    L          :=  Length in bits of hash portion of ORCHID
        </artwork>
	</figure>
</t>
<t>
	Hierarchical HIT uses the same context as all other HIPv2 HIT 
	Suites as they are clearly separated by the distinct HIT Suite ID.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="Use_Case_1" title="Initial use case for cSHAKE">
<t>
	The EdDSA/cSHAKE based HITs in <xref 
	target="I-D.moskowitz-hip-new-crypto">New Cryptographic Algorithms 
	for HIP</xref> is the first HIP Suite to use cSHAKE, thus using 
	this addendum.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="Use_Case_2" title="Initial use case for Additional Information">
<t>
	<xref target="I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit">Hierarchical 
	HITs</xref> (HHITs) is the first HIT construct that specifies the need of 
	dividing the 96 bits available to ORCHID into its Hierarchy ID 
	(HID) and HI Hash, thus using this addendum.
</t>
<t>
	HHITs use a unique Context ID as well as a Prefix different from 
	<xref target="RFC7401">HIPv2</xref>.  The different Prefix enables 
	receivers to properly decode the HID out of the HIT and validate 
	the HIT, given the HI.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="Collision" title="Collision risks with Hierarchical HITs">
<t>
	The 64 bit hash size does have an increased risk of collisions over 
	the 96 bit hash size used for the other HIT Suites.  There is a 
	0.01% probability of a collision in a population of 66 million.  
	The probability goes up to 1% for a population of 663 million.  See 
	<xref target="Coll_Prob"/> for the collision probability formula.
</t>
<t>
	However, this risk of collision is within a single "Additional 
	Information" value. Some registration process should be used to 
	reject a collision, forcing the client to generate a new HI and 
	thus HIT and reapplying to the registration process.
</t>
</section>

<section anchor="IANA" title="IANA Considerations">
    <t>
	  TBD.
    </t>
</section>
<section title="Security Considerations">
<t>
	A 64 bit hash space presents a real risk of second pre-image 
	attacks.  A Registry service effectively block attempts to "take 
	over" such a HIT.  It does not stop a rogue attempting to 
	impersonate a known HIT.  This attack can be mitigated by the 
	Responder using DNS to find the HI for the HIT or the RVS for the 
	HIT that then provides the registered HI.
</t>
</section>
<section title="Acknowledgments">
<t>
	Quynh Dang of NIST gave considerable guidance on using Keccak and 
	the NIST supporting documents.  Joan Deamen of the Keccak team was 
	especially helpful in many aspects of using Keccak.
</t>
</section>
</middle>
<back>
<references title="Normative References">
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.8174.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.7343.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-185.xml?anchor=NIST.SP.800-185"?>
</references>
<references title="Informative References">
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.7401.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-new-crypto.xml"?>
<reference anchor="Keccak" target="https://keccak.team/index.html">
  <front>
    <title>The Keccak Function</title>
<author fullname="Guido Bertoni" initials="G." surname="Bertoni"> 
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Joan Daemen" initials="J." surname="Daemen"> 
	<organization>Radboud University</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Michaël Peeters" initials="M." surname="Peeters"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Gilles Van Assche" initials="G." surname="Van Assche"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Ronny Van Keer" initials="R." surname="Van Keer"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<date/>
</front>
</reference>
</references>
<section anchor="Coll_Prob" title="Calculating Collision Probabilities">
<t>
	The accepted formula for calculating the probability of a collision 
	is:
</t>
	<figure>
        <artwork>

    p = 1 - e^{-k^2/(2n)}


    P   Collision Probability
    n   Total possible population
    k   Actual population


        </artwork>
	</figure>
</section>
</back>
</rfc>

--------------8D2C7DD5D4E7A8D3C5ED74D1--


From nobody Fri Dec 13 05:47:35 2019
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <b4acf21c-efb3-8f85-874b-f2a0d627e587@htt-consult.com> <ccab475a-9ad3-b33d-8497-ad16d1a009e9@gmx.de> <d5302682-d2df-2caf-31de-3d73f372c254@htt-consult.com> <10d33dfd-411c-14cf-51ae-79e28b91fa0c@gmx.de>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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OH, I have not submitted draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01 yet.  I only 
made the changes to the definition section  in preparation for making 
other changes.

So the submit rejection is only on the new-crypto xml.  Both passed the 
xml2rfc script.

On 12/13/19 6:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 13.12.2019 11:30, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> ...
>> OK. I will make the change, but it worked just fine in:
>>
>> draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01
>>
>> And in both cases xml2rfc --v3 had no problem with it.
>> ...
>
> Please provide the sources for both files, and I can have a look what's
> different.
>
> Best regards, Julian


From nobody Fri Dec 13 06:04:38 2019
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <b4acf21c-efb3-8f85-874b-f2a0d627e587@htt-consult.com> <ccab475a-9ad3-b33d-8497-ad16d1a009e9@gmx.de> <d5302682-d2df-2caf-31de-3d73f372c254@htt-consult.com> <10d33dfd-411c-14cf-51ae-79e28b91fa0c@gmx.de> <17e91dbb-66ef-7294-5f38-4e055c88af21@htt-consult.com>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 15:04:24 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/sqynX8Cwqa4ZZ0Sc88mTJBzh6k0>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 13.12.2019 14:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> OH, I have not submitted draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01 yet.=C2=A0 I o=
nly
> made the changes to the definition section=C2=A0 in preparation for maki=
ng
> other changes.
>
> So the submit rejection is only on the new-crypto xml.=C2=A0 Both passed=
 the
> xml2rfc script.
> ...

Interesting.

Both pass for me with "--v3"; both fail for me without.

The fact that <dl> is accepted as a child node of <t> seems to be a bug
in xml2rfc; you should report it at
<https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/>.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Fri Dec 13 06:10:49 2019
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <b4acf21c-efb3-8f85-874b-f2a0d627e587@htt-consult.com> <ccab475a-9ad3-b33d-8497-ad16d1a009e9@gmx.de> <d5302682-d2df-2caf-31de-3d73f372c254@htt-consult.com> <10d33dfd-411c-14cf-51ae-79e28b91fa0c@gmx.de> <17e91dbb-66ef-7294-5f38-4e055c88af21@htt-consult.com> <ca462914-a726-cfdf-1a09-7903d6166941@gmx.de>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 09:10:14 -0500
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------A365ADFB06A5F2D5DE3F3842
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 12/13/19 9:04 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 13.12.2019 14:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> OH, I have not submitted draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01 yet.  I only
>> made the changes to the definition section  in preparation for making
>> other changes.
>>
>> So the submit rejection is only on the new-crypto xml.  Both passed the
>> xml2rfc script.
>> ...
>
> Interesting.
>
> Both pass for me with "--v3"; both fail for me without.
>
> The fact that <dl> is accepted as a child node of <t> seems to be a bug
> in xml2rfc; you should report it at
> <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/>.

I will do that after we figure out why without the <t> it still failed 
the submission.

See attached.

One or more XML validation errors occurred when processing the XML file:
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 123: Element section content 
does not follow the DTD, expecting ((t | figure | texttable | iref)* , 
section*), got (dl)
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 124: No declaration for 
element dl
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 124: No declaration for 
attribute newline of element dl
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 125: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 126: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 131: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 132: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 135: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 136: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 140: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 141: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 144: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 145: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 150: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 151: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 155: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 156: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 160: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 161: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 477: Element section content 
does not follow the DTD, expecting ((t | figure | texttable | iref)* , 
section*), got (t dl)
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 482: No declaration for 
element dl
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 482: No declaration for 
attribute newline of element dl
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 483: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 484: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 489: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 490: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 494: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 495: No declaration for 
element dd
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 499: No declaration for 
element dt
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 500: No declaration for 
element dd


--------------A365ADFB06A5F2D5DE3F3842
Content-Type: text/xml; charset=UTF-8;
 name="draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml"

﻿<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE rfc SYSTEM "rfc2629.dtd" [
]>

<?xml-stylesheet type='text/xsl' href='rfc2629.xslt' ?>
 <?rfc toc="yes" ?>
 <?rfc symrefs="yes" ?>
 <?rfc sortrefs="yes"?> 
 <?rfc compact="yes" ?>
 <?rfc subcompact="no" ?>  
 <?rfc iprnotified="no" ?>
  <?rfc strict="no" ?>

<rfc category="std" docName="draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-02" ipr="trust200902">

<front>
<title abbrev="HIP New Crypto">New Cryptographic Algorithms for HIP</title>
	<author fullname="Robert Moskowitz" initials="R" surname="Moskowitz">
    <organization>HTT Consulting</organization>
    <address>
      <postal> 
	    <street></street>
        <city>Oak Park</city>
        <region>MI</region>
        <code>48237</code>
        <country>USA</country>
      </postal>
      <email>rgm@labs.htt-consult.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
	<author fullname="Stuart W. Card" initials="S." surname="Card">
	<organization>AX Enterprize</organization>
	<address>
	  <postal>
	    <street>4947 Commercial Drive</street>
	    <city>Yorkville</city>
	    <region>NY</region>
	    <code>13495</code>
	    <country>USA</country>
	  </postal>
	  <email>stu.card@axenterprize.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
	<author fullname="Adam Wiethuechter" initials="A." surname="Wiethuechter">
	<organization>AX Enterprize</organization>
	<address>
	  <postal>
	    <street>4947 Commercial Drive</street>
	    <city>Yorkville</city>
	    <region>NY</region>
	    <code>13495</code>
	    <country>USA</country>
	  </postal>
	  <email>adam.wiethuechter@axenterprize.com</email>
	</address>
	</author>
<date year="2019" />
   <area>Internet</area>
   <workgroup>HIP</workgroup>
    <keyword>RFC</keyword>
     <keyword>Request for Comments</keyword>
     <keyword>I-D</keyword>
     <keyword>Internet-Draft</keyword>
     <keyword>HIP</keyword>
<abstract>
<t>
	This document provides new cryptographic algorithms to be used with 
	HIP.  The Edwards Elliptic Curve and the Keccak sponge functions 
	are the main focus. The HIP parameters and processing instructions 
	impacted by these algorithms are defined.
</t>
</abstract>
</front>
<middle>   
<section title="Introduction">
<t> 
	This document adds new cryptographic algorithms for <xref 
	target="RFC7401">HIPv2</xref>. This includes:
	<list style="symbols">
    <t>
		New elliptic curves for ECDH.
    </t>
    <t>
		The Edwards Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (EdDSA) 
		used in Host Identities (HI) and for Base Exchange (BEX) 
		signatures.
    </t>
	<t>
		Hashes used in Host Identity Tag (HIT) generation, and 
		wherever else hashes are needed.
	</t>
	<t>
		Keyed hashes used for KEYMAT generation and packet MACing 
		operations.
	</t>
	<t>
		AEAD and stream ciphers to use in HIP and HIP enabled secure 
		communication protocols.
	</t>
	</list>
</t> 
<t>
	The hashes and encryption are all built on the <xref 
	target="Keccak">Keccak</xref> sponge function.
</t>
<t>
	These additions reflect selection of advances in the field of 
	cryptography that would best benefit HIP, particularly in 
	constrained devices and communications.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="terms" title="Terms and Definitions">
<section title="Requirements Terminology">
	<t>
		The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL 
		NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", 
		"MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as 
		described in BCP 14 <xref target="RFC2119" /> <xref 
		target="RFC8174" /> when, and only when, they appear in all 
		capitals, as shown here.
	`</t>
</section>
<section title="Definitions">
	<dl newline="true">
		<dt>Keccak (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
		<dd>
			The family of all sponge functions with a KECCAK-f 
			permutation as the underlying function and multi-rate 
			padding as the padding rule.
		</dd>
		<dt>KMAC (KECCAK Message Authentication Code):</dt>
		<dd>
			A PRF and keyed hash function based on KECCAK.
		</dd>
		<dt>cSHAKE (The customizable SHAKE function):</dt>
		<dd>
			Extends the SHAKE scheme to allow users to customize their 
			use of the function.
		</dd>
		<dt>SHAKE (Secure Hash Algorithm KECCAK):</dt>
		<dd>
			A secure hash that allows for an arbitrary output length.
		</dd>
		<dt>PRF (Pseudorandom Function):</dt>
		<dd>
			A function that can be used to generate output from a 
			random seed such that the output is computationally 
			indistinguishable from truly random output.
		</dd>
		<dt>capacity:</dt>
		<dd>
			In the sponge construction, the width of the underlying 
			function minus the rate.
		</dd>
		<dt>rate:</dt>
		<dd>
			In the sponge construction, the number of input bits 
			processed per invocation of the underlying function.
		</dd>
		<dt>XOF (eXtendable-Output Function):</dt>
		<dd>
			A function on bit strings (also called messages) in which 
			the output can be extended to any desired length.
		</dd>
	</dl>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="HIP_param" title="HIP Parameter values for new Crytpo">
<t>
	HIP parameters carry information that is necessary for establishing 
	and maintaining a HIP association.  For example, the device's 
	public keys as well as the signaling for negotiating ciphers and 
	payload handling are encapsulated in HIP parameters.  Additional 
	information, meaningful for end hosts or middleboxes, may also be 
	included in HIP parameters.  The specification of the HIP 
	parameters and their mapping to HIP packets and packet types is 
	flexible to allow HIP extensions to define new parameters and new 
	protocol behavior.
</t>
<section anchor="ecdh" title="Elliptic Curves for Diffie-Hellman">
<t>
	Elliptic curves Curve25519 and Curve448 <xref target="RFC7748">RFC 
	7748</xref>) are specified here for use in the HIP Diffie-Hellman 
	exchange.
</t>
<t>
	Curve25519 and Curve448 are already defined in Section 5.2.1 of 
	<xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>, using the HIP-DEX CKDF.  
	Here they are defined for using the new KMAC <xref 
	target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 800-185</xref> derived KDF in 
	<xref target="hip_keymat" />.
</t>
<section anchor="Diffie_Hellman" title="DIFFIE_HELLMAN">
<t>
	The DIFFIE_HELLMAN parameter may be included in selected HIP 
	packets based on the DH Group ID selected.  The DIFFIE_HELLMAN 
	parameter is defined in Section 5.2.7 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.
</t>
<t>
	The following Elliptic Curves are defined here:
</t>
    <figure>
      <artwork>
Group                              KDF              Value

Curve25519 [RFC7748]               KKDF             13
Curve448   [RFC7748]               KKDF             14
      </artwork>
    </figure>

<t>
	A new KDF for KEYMAT, Section 6.5 of <xref target="RFC7401"/> and 
	Section 6.3 of <xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref> using 
	Keccak is defined in <xref target="hip_keymat" />.
</t>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="EdDSA" title="Edward Digital Signature Algorithm">
<t>
	Edwards-Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (EdDSA) (<xref 
	target="RFC8032">RFC 8032</xref>) are specified here for use as 
	Host Identities (HIs).
</t>
<section anchor="host_id" title="HOST_ID">
<t>
	The HOST_ID parameter specifies the public key algorithm, and for 
	elliptic curves, a name.  The HOST_ID parameter is defined in 
	Section 5.2.19 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     Algorithm
     profiles         Values

     EdDSA            13 [RFC8032]       (RECOMMENDED)
    </artwork>
</figure>

	<t>
	For hosts that implement EdDSA as the algorithm, the following ECC 
	curves are available:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     Algorithm    Curve            Values

     EdDSA        RESERVED         0
     EdDSA        EdDSA25519       1 [RFC8032]
     EdDSA        EdDSA25519ph     2 [RFC8032]
     EdDSA        EdDSA448         3 [RFC8032]
     EdDSA        EdDSA448ph       4 [RFC8032]
    </artwork>
</figure>
</section>
<section anchor="hit_suite_list" title="HIT_SUITE_LIST">
	<t>
		The HIT_SUITE_LIST parameter contains a list of the supported 
		HIT suite IDs of the Responder. Based on the HIT_SUITE_LIST, 
		the Initiator can determine which source HIT Suite IDs are 
		supported by the Responder. The HIT_SUITE_LIST parameter is 
		defined in Section 5.2.10 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.
	</t>
	<t>
		The following HIT Suite ID is defined, and the relationship 
		between the four-bit ID value used in the OGA ID field and the 
		eight-bit encoding within the HIT_SUITE_LIST ID field is 
		clarified:
	</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     HIT Suite       Four-bit ID    Eight-bit encoding
     RESERVED            0             0x00
     EdDSA/SHAKE128      5             0x50           (RECOMMENDED)
    </artwork>
</figure>
<t>
	The following table provides more detail on the above HIT Suite 
	combinations.  The input for each generation algorithm is the 
	encoding of the HI as defined in <xref target="gener_hit" />. The 
	output is 96 bits long and is directly used in the ORCHID.
</t>
	<texttable title="HIT Suites" anchor="table_hit_suites">
	<ttcol align="right">Index</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">Hash function</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">HMAC</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">Signature algorithm family</ttcol>
	<ttcol align="left">Description</ttcol>
	<c>5</c> <c>SHAKE128</c> <c>KMAC128</c> <c>EdDSA</c> <c>EdDSA HI hashed with cSHAKE128, output is 96 bits</c>

	</texttable>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="hash" title="Hashing with the Keccak Function">
<t>
	The <xref target="Keccak">Keccak</xref> sponge function is the 
	basis for the new SHA-3, standard <xref target="NIST.FIPS.202">NIST 
	FIPS 202</xref>, and the customized XOF functions in <xref 
	target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 800-185</xref>.  These are used 
	here as an alternative to all the hashing functions in HIP.
</t>
<t>
	Hardware implementation of Keccak in VHDL is available from <xref 
	target="Keccak">Keccak</xref>.
</t>
<section anchor="Keccak_P" title="The Keccak Permutation">
<t>
	Keccak is described as a sponge function.  The analogy to a 
	sponge is that an arbitrary number of input bits are "absorbed" 
	into the state of the function, after which an arbitrary number of 
	output bits are "squeezed" out of its state.
	<list >
<t>
		The Keccak function is defined to have a width of b bits.  
		Where b is the capacity (c) + rate (r).
</t>
<t>
	The rate is the number of bits "fed" into the sponge at a time.
</t>
<t>
	The capacity is twice the desired hash "strength" and part of the 
	sponge width.
</t>
	</list>
</t>
<t>
	b is one of the set {25, 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600}.  In FIPS 
	202, b=1600.  Thus a hash strength of 128 bits can be delivered 
	with c=256 and r=1344, or 168 byte segment input to the sponge.
</t>
<t>
	Keccak can also provide a hash strength of 128 bit with b=800 
	(r=544 or 68 bytes) and b=400 (r=144 or 18 bytes).  256 bit 
	strength can only be provided with b=1600 or 800.
</t>
<t>
	FIPS 202 does not specify use of these smaller values for b which 
	may be preferred in memory constrained devices, processing 
	relatively short input strings.  Future work will determine if the 
	smaller values for b result in a significant performance/memory 
	improvement to warrant their use.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="rhash" title="RHASH">
<t>
	The RHASH is the general term used throughout <xref 
	target="RFC7401" /> to refer to the hash used for a specific HIT 
	suite.  For this addendum SHAKE128 is used, even for HIs of 
	EdDSA448.
</t>
<t>
	Unless otherwise specified, L of SHAKE128 is 256, resulting in a 
	similar output to SHA256.  Any truncation used for, older, fixed 
	output hashes is still used.  This is to simplify code 
	integration.  One exception to this is in <xref target="gener_hit" 
	/>.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="hip_macs" title="HIP_MAC and HIP_MAC2">
<t>
	The HIP_MAC and HIP_MAC2 parameters in <xref target="RFC7401" /> 
	use HMAC <xref target="RFC2104" />.  This performs two hashes on a 
	string with a key for a keyed hash the length of the underlying hash.
</t>
<t>
	Here, KMAC from <xref target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 
	800-185</xref> is used.  This is a single pass using the underlying 
	cSHAKE function.  The function call is:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     KMAC128(Key, Input String, 256, "")
    </artwork>
</figure>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="keyak" title="HIP Cipher">
<t>
	HIP encrypted parameters use the HIP_CIPHER, Section 5.2.8 of <xref 
	target="RFC7401" />.  The Keccak Keyak cipher, <xref 
	target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>, is recommended. 
	Keyak is a candidate in the NIST Lightweight Cryptography 
	competition and is consistent with the overall approach in this 
	addendum to use Keccak functions for simplicity in design and 
	implementation.
</t>
<section anchor="hip_cipher" title="HIP_CIPHER">
<t>
	The HIP_CIPHER parameter values for Keyak are:
</t>
<figure>
      <artwork>hip_cipher
     Suite ID           Value

     RIVER KEYAK        6     (Keyak)
     LAKE KEYAK         7     (Keyak)
      </artwork>
</figure>

<t>
	For use as the HIP Cipher, the TAG generated in Keyak is length 0. 
	The Keyak SUV is the key plus IV specified for the encrypted 
	parameter.  River Keyak MAY be used for <xref 
	target="Keyak_Cipher"> </xref>, in place of AES-CTR.
</t>
<t>
	Lake Keyak can provide 256 bits of security by following the 
	recommendations for the Keyak cipher.
</t>
</section>
</section>
</section>
<section anchor="gener_hit" title="Generating a HIT from an HI">
<t>
	The EdDSA/cSHAKE based HITs vary slightly the ORCHID generation 
	method described in section 3.2 of <xref target="RFC7401" />.  The 
	XOF functionality of cSHAKE produces an output of L bits.  This 
	replaces the Encode_96 function in the ORCHID generation.
</t>
<t>
	For identities that are EdDSA public keys, ORCHIDs will be 
	generated per the process defined in <xref 
	target="I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake">Using cSHAKE in ORCHIDs</xref>
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="hip_keymat" title="HIP KEYMAT Generation">
<t>
	The KMAC function provides a new, more efficient, key derivation 
	function over HKDF <xref target="RFC5869" />.  This will be 
	referred to as KKDF.
</t>
<t>
	The choice of KMAC128 or KMAC256 is based on the strength of the 
	output key material.  For 256 bits of strength equivalent to 
	HMAC-SHA256, use KMAC256.  Per <xref 
	target="NIST.SP.800-56Cr1">NIST SP 800-56Cr1</xref>, Section 4.1, 
	Option 3:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     OKM = KMAC[128|256](salt | info, IKM, L, S)
    </artwork>
</figure>
<t>
	L is the derived key bit length.  Since 4 HIP keys are "drawn" from 
	this output, the length is 4 * HIP_key_size.  Per <xref 
	target="ASIACRYPT-2017">ASIACRYPT 2017, pp. 606-637</xref> each of 
	these derived keys will have the same strength as the 
	Diffie-Hellman shared secret.
</t>
<t>
	S is the byte string 01001011 || 01000100 || 01000110, which 
	represents the sequence of characters “K”, “D”, and “F” in 8-bit 
	ASCII.
</t>
<t>
	Salt and info are derived as defined in <xref target="RFC7401" /> 
	or <xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>.  There are special 
	security considerations for IKM per <xref target="RFC7748" />.  The 
	two HIs MUST be used in constructing IKM as follows:
</t>
<figure>
    <artwork>
     IKM = Diffie-Hellman secret | HI-R |  HI-I
    </artwork>
</figure>
<t>
	These are separately DER encoded.
</t>
</section>
<section anchor="PRF" title="Using Keccak for a Pseudorandom Function">
<t>
	Appendix B of <xref target="NIST.SP.800-185">NIST SP 800-185</xref> 
	defines how to use SHAKE, cSHAKE, or KMAC as a PRF.
</t>
</section>

<section anchor="IANA" title="IANA Considerations">
    <t>
	  IANA will need to make the following changes to the "Host 
	  Identity Protocol (HIP) Parameters" registries:
    </t>
	<dl newline="true">
        <dt>Diffie Hellman:</dt>
		<dd>
		  This document defines the new Curve25519 and Curve448 for the 
		  Diffie-Hellman exchange (see <xref target="Diffie_Hellman" 
		  />).
        </dd>
        <dt>Host ID:</dt>
		<dd>
			This document defines the new EdDSA Host ID (see <xref 
			target="host_id" />).
        </dd>
		<dt>HIT Suite ID:</dt>
		<dd>
			This document defines the new HIT Suite of EdDSA/cSHAKE 
			(see <xref target="hit_suite_list" />).
		</dd>
		<dt>HIP Cipher:</dt>
		<dd>
			This document defines the new Keyak ciphers for HIP 
			encrypted parameters (see <xref target="hip_cipher" />).
		</dd>
	</dl>
</section>
<section title="Security Considerations">
<section anchor="keymat_security" title="Keymat vulnerabilities">
<t>
	<xref target="RFC7748" /> warns about using Curve25519 and Curve448 
	in Diffie-Hellman for key derivation:
</t>
<t>
	Designers using these curves should be aware that for each public 
	key, there are several publicly computable public keys that are 
	equivalent to it, i.e., they produce the same shared secrets.  Thus 
	using a public key as an identifier and knowledge of a shared 
	secret as proof of ownership (without including the public keys in 
	the key derivation) might lead to subtle vulnerabilities.
</t>
<t>
	This applies to <xref target="I-D.ietf-hip-dex"> </xref>, but may 
	have broader consequences.  Thus the two Host IDs are included with 
	the Diffie-Hellman secret.
</t>
</section>
</section>
<section title="Acknowledgments">
<t>
	Quynh Dang of NIST gave considerable guidance on using Keccak and 
	the NIST supporting documents.  Joan Deamen of the Keccak team was 
	especially helpful in many aspects of using Keccak, particularly 
	with the KEYMAT section and the strength of the derived keys.
</t>
</section>
</middle>
<back>
<references title="Normative References">
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.8174.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-185.xml?anchor=NIST.SP.800-185"?>
	<?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.SP.800-56Cr1.xml?anchor=NIST.SP.800-56Cr1"?>
</references>
<references title="Informative References">
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.2104.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.5869.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.7401.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.7748.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.RFC.8032.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.I-D.ietf-hip-dex.xml"?>
	<?rfc include="reference.I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake.xml"?>
	<!-- <?rfc include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.1007/978-3-319-70697-9_21.xml?anchor=ASIACRYPT-2017"?> -->
<reference anchor="ASIACRYPT-2017">
  <front>
    <title>Full-State Keyed Duplex with Built-In Multi-user Support</title>
    <author initials="J." surname="Daemen" fullname="Joan Daemen">
      <organization></organization>
    </author>
    <author initials="B." surname="Mennink" fullname="Bart Mennink">
      <organization></organization>
    </author>
    <author initials="G." surname="Van Assche" fullname="Gilles Van Assche">
      <organization></organization>
    </author>
    <date year="2017"/>
  </front>
  <seriesInfo name="Advances in Cryptology - ASIACRYPT 2017" value="pp. 606-637"/>
  <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.1007/978-3-319-70697-9_21"/>
</reference>
<reference anchor="Keccak" target="https://keccak.team/index.html">
  <front>
    <title>The Keccak Function</title>
<author fullname="Guido Bertoni" initials="G." surname="Bertoni"> 
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Joan Daemen" initials="J." surname="Daemen"> 
	<organization>Radboud University</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Michaël Peeters" initials="M." surname="Peeters"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Gilles Van Assche" initials="G." surname="Van Assche"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Ronny Van Keer" initials="R." surname="Van Keer"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<date/>
</front>
</reference>
<reference anchor="Keyak_Cipher" target="https://keccak.team/keyak.html">
  <front>
    <title>The Keyak Cipher</title>
<author fullname="Guido Bertoni" initials="G." surname="Bertoni"> 
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Joan Daemen" initials="J." surname="Daemen"> 
	<organization>Radboud University</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Michaël Peeters" initials="M." surname="Peeters"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Gilles Van Assche" initials="G." surname="Van Assche"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<author fullname="Ronny Van Keer" initials="R." surname="Van Keer"> 
	<organization>STMicroelectronics</organization>
	<address/> 
</author> 
<date/>
</front>
</reference>
</references>
</back>
</rfc>

--------------A365ADFB06A5F2D5DE3F3842--


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On 13.12.2019 15:10, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 12/13/19 9:04 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 13.12.2019 14:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> OH, I have not submitted draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01 yet.=C2=A0 I=
 only
>>> made the changes to the definition section=C2=A0 in preparation for ma=
king
>>> other changes.
>>>
>>> So the submit rejection is only on the new-crypto xml.=C2=A0 Both pass=
ed the
>>> xml2rfc script.
>>> ...
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> Both pass for me with "--v3"; both fail for me without.
>>
>> The fact that <dl> is accepted as a child node of <t> seems to be a bug
>> in xml2rfc; you should report it at
>> <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/>.
>
> I will do that after we figure out why without the <t> it still failed
> the submission.
>
> See attached.
>
> One or more XML validation errors occurred when processing the XML file:
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 123: Element section content
> does not follow the DTD, expecting ((t | figure | texttable | iref)* ,
> section*), got (dl)
 > ...

xml2rfc tries to validate this as v2 document, and fails.

I don't know how the submission system detects "v3". Minimally, you
probably should set the version attribute on the <rfc> element; see
<https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7991.html#element.rfc.attribute.vers=
ion>.

Best regards, Julian


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On Dec 13, 2019, at 15:21, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>=20
> I don't know how the submission system detects "v3".

I also don=E2=80=99t know what that even means (what does it do =
differently when it =C2=BBdetects =E2=80=9Cv3=E2=80=9D=C2=AB).

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 13.12.2019 15:24, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On Dec 13, 2019, at 15:21, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know how the submission system detects "v3".
>
> I also don=E2=80=99t know what that even means (what does it do differen=
tly when it =C2=BBdetects =E2=80=9Cv3=E2=80=9D=C2=AB).

xml2rfc contains two formatters, the legacy one (v2) and a new one.

The new elements are only accepted by the new formatter.

(Henrik, correct me if I'm wrong).

Best regards, Julian

PS: rfc2629.xslt follows a different strategy; it's a single code base,
accepting "all". Maybe at some point in the future it will start
emitting warnings for things that are deprecated in v3.


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On Dec 13, 2019, at 15:31, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>=20
> On 13.12.2019 15:24, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> On Dec 13, 2019, at 15:21, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> I don't know how the submission system detects "v3".
>>=20
>> I also don=E2=80=99t know what that even means (what does it do =
differently when it =C2=BBdetects =E2=80=9Cv3=E2=80=9D=C2=AB).
>=20
> xml2rfc contains two formatters, the legacy one (v2) and a new one.

But what is the point of invoking the legacy formatter?
Shouldn=E2=80=99t all documents go through v2v3 now?
(OK, *failing that* might want to trigger legacy formatting, to avoid =
v2v3 bugs becoming a point of failure.)

> The new elements are only accepted by the new formatter.

Of course.

> (Henrik, correct me if I'm wrong).
>=20
> Best regards, Julian
>=20
> PS: rfc2629.xslt follows a different strategy; it's a single code =
base,
> accepting "all". Maybe at some point in the future it will start
> emitting warnings for things that are deprecated in v3.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 12/13/19 9:21 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 13.12.2019 15:10, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/19 9:04 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 13.12.2019 14:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>> OH, I have not submitted draft-moskowitz-orchid-cshake-01 yet.  I only
>>>> made the changes to the definition section  in preparation for making
>>>> other changes.
>>>>
>>>> So the submit rejection is only on the new-crypto xml.  Both passed 
>>>> the
>>>> xml2rfc script.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Interesting.
>>>
>>> Both pass for me with "--v3"; both fail for me without.
>>>
>>> The fact that <dl> is accepted as a child node of <t> seems to be a bug
>>> in xml2rfc; you should report it at
>>> <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/>.
>>
>> I will do that after we figure out why without the <t> it still failed
>> the submission.
>>
>> See attached.
>>
>> One or more XML validation errors occurred when processing the XML file:
>> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml: Line 123: Element section content
>> does not follow the DTD, expecting ((t | figure | texttable | iref)* ,
>> section*), got (dl)
> > ...
>
> xml2rfc tries to validate this as v2 document, and fails.
>
> I don't know how the submission system detects "v3". Minimally, you
> probably should set the version attribute on the <rfc> element; see
> <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7991.html#element.rfc.attribute.version>.

I see I have more changes to do in the <rfc> element, as I have 'old' 
deprecated usage to fix.  But meanwhile:

Incompatible schema information: found "rfc2629.dtd" in <DOCTYPE> of a 
version 3 file

So now what?  I thought, well maybe the .dtd for DOCTYPE has changed as 
well.  I tried 7991 and 7749 in place of 2629 and they did not exist.

So I searched rfc7991 for DOCTYPE and did not find any reference!

What do I put there?

I will change <rfc> to current after I get this working......

thanks


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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Hi Bob,

> On 13 Dec 2019, at 17:05, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrote:
>=20
> I see I have more changes to do in the <rfc> element, as I have 'old' depr=
ecated usage to fix.  But meanwhile:
>=20
> Incompatible schema information: found "rfc2629.dtd" in <DOCTYPE> of a ver=
sion 3 file
>=20
> So now what?  I thought, well maybe the .dtd for DOCTYPE has changed as we=
ll.  I tried 7991 and 7749 in place of 2629 and they did not exist.

The easiest way forward might be to run your xml file through the v2v3 conve=
rter to get a valid v3 starting point:

xml2rfc --v2v3 v2file.xml

Best,

    Henrik=


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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 13.12.2019 17:05, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> ...
> I see I have more changes to do in the <rfc> element, as I have 'old'
> deprecated usage to fix.=C2=A0 But meanwhile:
>
> Incompatible schema information: found "rfc2629.dtd" in <DOCTYPE> of a
> version 3 file
>
> So now what?=C2=A0 I thought, well maybe the .dtd for DOCTYPE has change=
d as
> well.=C2=A0 I tried 7991 and 7749 in place of 2629 and they did not exis=
t.
>
> So I searched rfc7991 for DOCTYPE and did not find any reference!
>
> What do I put there?
> ...

Nothing. Just remove the DOCTYPE.

 > ...

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 12/13/19 12:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 13.12.2019 17:05, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> ...
>> I see I have more changes to do in the <rfc> element, as I have 'old'
>> deprecated usage to fix.  But meanwhile:
>>
>> Incompatible schema information: found "rfc2629.dtd" in <DOCTYPE> of a
>> version 3 file
>>
>> So now what?  I thought, well maybe the .dtd for DOCTYPE has changed as
>> well.  I tried 7991 and 7749 in place of 2629 and they did not exist.
>>
>> So I searched rfc7991 for DOCTYPE and did not find any reference!
>>
>> What do I put there?
>> ...
>
> Nothing. Just remove the DOCTYPE.
>
> > ...
>
> Best regards, Julian


I got a real problem here.  I delete the DOCTYPE line and run and it 
runs and runs:

xml2rfc --v3 draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml(12): Warning: Expected a valid 
submissionType (stream) setting, one of IETF, IAB, IRTF, independent, 
but found None.  Will use 'IETF'
draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml(12): Warning: Setting 
consensus="true" for IETF STD document (this is not the schema default, 
but is the only value permitted for this type of document)

and I see in top:

11094 rgm       20   0   56148  44560  14176 R  99.0   0.6  26:03.81 
xml2rfc


So something is rotten here.



From nobody Fri Dec 13 10:47:00 2019
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
Message-ID: <a4c0c2f1-5a0d-ca41-d4ff-663bf5297bd0@htt-consult.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 13:46:48 -0500
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 12/13/19 12:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 13.12.2019 17:05, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> ...
>> I see I have more changes to do in the <rfc> element, as I have 'old'
>> deprecated usage to fix.  But meanwhile:
>>
>> Incompatible schema information: found "rfc2629.dtd" in <DOCTYPE> of a
>> version 3 file
>>
>> So now what?  I thought, well maybe the .dtd for DOCTYPE has changed as
>> well.  I tried 7991 and 7749 in place of 2629 and they did not exist.
>>
>> So I searched rfc7991 for DOCTYPE and did not find any reference!
>>
>> What do I put there?
>> ...
>
> Nothing. Just remove the DOCTYPE.
>
> > ...
>
> Best regards, Julian

When I abort the script I get:

^CTraceback (most recent call last):
   File 
"/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/writers/base.py", 
line 1871, in downcode
     e.text.encode('ascii')
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u201c' in 
position 103: ordinal not in range(128)

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/rgm/.local/bin/xml2rfc", line 11, in <module>
     load_entry_point('xml2rfc==2.37.1', 'console_scripts', 'xml2rfc')()
   File "/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/run.py", 
line 587, in main
     xmlrfc.tree = prep.prep()
   File 
"/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/writers/preptool.py", 
line 343, in prep
     func(e, e.getparent())
   File 
"/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/writers/preptool.py", 
line 528, in check_ascii_text
     self.downcode_punctuation()
   File 
"/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/writers/base.py", 
line 1856, in downcode_punctuation
     self.downcode(replacements=punctuation)
   File 
"/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/writers/base.py", 
line 1873, in downcode
     e.text = downcode(e.text, replacements=replacements)
   File 
"/home/rgm/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/xml2rfc/util/unicode.py", 
line 196, in downcode
     str = re.sub(match.group(1), entity, str)
   File "/usr/lib64/python3.7/re.py", line 192, in sub
     return _compile(pattern, flags).sub(repl, string, count)
KeyboardInterrupt



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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:49:45 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] tag DL errors on draft submission
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On 13.12.2019 19:45, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 12/13/19 12:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 13.12.2019 17:05, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I see I have more changes to do in the <rfc> element, as I have 'old'
>>> deprecated usage to fix.=C2=A0 But meanwhile:
>>>
>>> Incompatible schema information: found "rfc2629.dtd" in <DOCTYPE> of a
>>> version 3 file
>>>
>>> So now what?=C2=A0 I thought, well maybe the .dtd for DOCTYPE has chan=
ged as
>>> well.=C2=A0 I tried 7991 and 7749 in place of 2629 and they did not ex=
ist.
>>>
>>> So I searched rfc7991 for DOCTYPE and did not find any reference!
>>>
>>> What do I put there?
>>> ...
>>
>> Nothing. Just remove the DOCTYPE.
>>
>> > ...
>>
>> Best regards, Julian
>
>
> I got a real problem here.=C2=A0 I delete the DOCTYPE line and run and i=
t
> runs and runs:
>
> xml2rfc --v3 draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml(12): Warning: Expected a valid
> submissionType (stream) setting, one of IETF, IAB, IRTF, independent,
> but found None.=C2=A0 Will use 'IETF'
> draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto-03.xml(12): Warning: Setting
> consensus=3D"true" for IETF STD document (this is not the schema default=
,
> but is the only value permitted for this type of document)

That part is harmless, but see
<https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/420>.

> and I see in top:
>
> 11094 rgm=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 20=C2=A0=C2=A0 0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 56148=C2=A0 44560=C2=A0 14176 R=C2=A0 99.0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0.6=C2=A0 26:03=
.81
> xml2rfc
>
>
> So something is rotten here.
> ...

If you send me the doc, I can give it a try.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Sat Dec 14 18:19:33 2019
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:19:15 -0500
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I suppose that it works well enough.  Technically it seems to produce 
xml that generates the same output.  Many things were changed that I 
would not have expected needing changing.

An example of a change was my <figure> <artwork> to <artwork> <[CDATA]> 
stuff.

OK.

The indentation methodology was not to my liking, and I edited the 
results to what I like for readability.  Also <sections> no longer seem 
to have the section name, that is now in <name>. It is a problem when 
this is put on a separate line and you want to collapse <section> in 
your editor.  You cannot see the name anymore.  So I had to put the 
<name> object on the same line as <section>.  This way collapsing the 
section maintains readability.

I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:

     <?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>

The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can 
change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong to 
expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.

Fortunately I only have 4 drafts active, and they are small.  Plus two 
that I am helping the authors.

Bob


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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/NhYK3NJG-Q80KhIRLqEJVZk2bl8>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>...
> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>
> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can
> change (like author changes to drafts).=C2=A0 Thus I feel they are wrong=
 to
> expand and should be left as is.=C2=A0 I manually put them back.
> ...

There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to
change this:

>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements with =
RFC
>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesInfo wi=
th the
>                                         appropriate XInclude element

Best regards, Julian


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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> ...
>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>
>>      <?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>
>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can
>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong to
>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>> ...
>
> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to
> change this:
>
>>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements 
>> with RFC
>>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesInfo 
>> with the
>>                                         appropriate XInclude element
>
> Best regards, Julian

I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is 
backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.

rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason to 
remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special action?



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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 15.12.2019 12:38, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>
>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can
>>> change (like author changes to drafts).=C2=A0 Thus I feel they are wro=
ng to
>>> expand and should be left as is.=C2=A0 I manually put them back.
>>> ...
>>
>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to
>> change this:
>>
>>> =C2=A0 V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --add-xinclude=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 replace reference elements
>>> with RFC
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and Internet-Draft seriesInfo
>>> with the
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 appropriate XInclude element
>>
>> Best regards, Julian
>
> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is
> backwards.=C2=A0 The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>
> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.=C2=A0 What is the reason=
 to
> remove them for v3?=C2=A0 And making putting them back needing special a=
ction?

We replaced a proprietary hack (a PI) with something standards-based
with greater utility.

WRT xml2rfc's defaults: you'll have to ask Henrik.

Best regards, Julian


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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com> <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de> <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com> <72af41a6-6cd9-9d0e-289b-627be72f6694@gmx.de>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
Message-ID: <f5f78d62-cff4-40ac-fb5d-37ffcf303274@htt-consult.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:09:07 -0500
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 8:09 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 15.12.2019 12:38, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>
>>>>      <?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>
>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can
>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong to
>>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to
>>> change this:
>>>
>>>>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements
>>>> with RFC
>>>>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesInfo
>>>> with the
>>>>                                         appropriate XInclude element
>>>
>>> Best regards, Julian
>>
>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is
>> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>
>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason to
>> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special 
>> action?
>
> We replaced a proprietary hack (a PI) with something standards-based
> with greater utility.

Ah, I missed that it was a replacement of <?rfc with <xi:include

But this new form requires you to know where the rfc/ID is coming from 
with explicit URL.  So it goes...

> WRT xml2rfc's defaults: you'll have to ask Henrik.

Hopefully he will catch up with this thread and comment.

>
> Best regards, Julian


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To: xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 6:38 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>
>>>      <?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>
>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can
>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong to
>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>> ...
>>
>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to
>> change this:
>>
>>>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements 
>>> with RFC
>>>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesInfo 
>>> with the
>>>                                         appropriate XInclude element
>>
>> Best regards, Julian
> 
> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is 
> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
> 
> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason to 
> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special action?

Do I understand correctly that the translation takes a wildcard 
reference (to the latest version of the draft) and binds it to a 
particular version at the time of the translation?

If so, that seems like the wrong thing to do.

	Thanks,
	Paul


From nobody Sun Dec 15 11:37:29 2019
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To: Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 16-Dec-19 08:20, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 12/15/19 6:38 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>
>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they c=
an
>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).=C2=A0 Thus I feel they are w=
rong to
>>>> expand and should be left as is.=C2=A0 I manually put them back.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to=

>>> change this:
>>>
>>>> =C2=A0 V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --add-xinclude=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 replace reference elements=20
>>>> with RFC
>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and Internet-Draft seriesInfo=20
>>>> with the
>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 appropriate XInclude element
>>>
>>> Best regards, Julian
>>
>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is=20
>> backwards.=C2=A0 The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>
>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.=C2=A0 What is the reas=
on to=20
>> remove them for v3?=C2=A0 And making putting them back needing special=
 action?
>=20
> Do I understand correctly that the translation takes a wildcard=20
> reference (to the latest version of the draft) and binds it to a=20
> particular version at the time of the translation?
>=20
> If so, that seems like the wrong thing to do.

Utterly wrong. How does one refer to the latest version in v3 format?
Something like
<xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/ref=
erence.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml"/>
doesn't work.

   Brian




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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Hi Bob,

On 2019-12-15 15:09, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On 12/15/19 8:09 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 15.12.2019 12:38, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>>
>>>>>      <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they =
can
>>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong=
 to
>>>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed t=
o
>>>> change this:
>>>>
>>>>>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>>>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements
>>>>> with RFC
>>>>>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesIn=
fo
>>>>> with the
>>>>>                                         appropriate XInclude elemen=
t
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Julian
>>>
>>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is
>>> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>>
>>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason t=
o
>>> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special=20
>>> action?
>>
>> We replaced a proprietary hack (a PI) with something standards-based
>> with greater utility.
>=20
> Ah, I missed that it was a replacement of <?rfc with <xi:include
>=20
> But this new form requires you to know where the rfc/ID is coming from =

> with explicit URL.  So it goes...

Yes.  v2 had default locations in which to look for bibxml files, somethi=
ng
I moved over to the v3 format's handling of <xi:include> entries.

However, Julian insisted that for <xi:include>, the URL had to be fully
specified, and having the same kind of fallback on default bibxml paths
was disallowed, so I had to take that out, with a great deal of regret.

>> WRT xml2rfc's defaults: you'll have to ask Henrik.
>=20
> Hopefully he will catch up with this thread and comment.

The v2v3 converter work was part of the RFC format RFP statement of work,=

which focused on the needs of the RPC.  When I introduced the --add-xincl=
ude
switch, I checked with the RPC what their preference was, and it was at
that time to expand any references and inline them.  The preference has
shifted, and my intention is that when we transition to the xml2rfc 3.x
series, backwards incompatible changes can be permitted, and I would chan=
ge
the default for the v2v3 converter to not include expanded references, bu=
t
instead insert <xi:include> entries.


Best regards,

	Henrik


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Hi Paul,

On 2019-12-15 20:20, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 12/15/19 6:38 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>
>>>>      <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>
>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they c=
an
>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong =
to
>>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to=

>>> change this:
>>>
>>>>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements=20
>>>> with RFC
>>>>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesInf=
o=20
>>>> with the
>>>>                                         appropriate XInclude element=

>>>
>>> Best regards, Julian
>>=20
>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is=20
>> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>=20
>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason to=
=20
>> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special acti=
on?
>=20
> Do I understand correctly that the translation takes a wildcard=20
> reference (to the latest version of the draft) and binds it to a=20
> particular version at the time of the translation?
>=20
> If so, that seems like the wrong thing to do.

I agree.  I see that this is a result of the way the current code tries
to add <xi:include> entries for any <reference> which refers to a draft
or RFC, whether it has been pulled in by reference or was present as a
fully expanded entry; this happening after the (current) default operatio=
n
of expanding all references during v2v3 conversion has taken place.

I'll change that in an upcoming release.


Best regards,

	Henrik


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>,
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 2019-12-15 20:37, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 16-Dec-19 08:20, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> On 12/15/19 6:38 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>>
>>>>>      <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they =
can
>>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong=
 to
>>>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed t=
o
>>>> change this:
>>>>
>>>>>   V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>>>     --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements =

>>>>> with RFC
>>>>>                                         and Internet-Draft seriesIn=
fo=20
>>>>> with the
>>>>>                                         appropriate XInclude elemen=
t
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Julian
>>>
>>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is=20
>>> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>>
>>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason t=
o=20
>>> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special act=
ion?
>>=20
>> Do I understand correctly that the translation takes a wildcard=20
>> reference (to the latest version of the draft) and binds it to a=20
>> particular version at the time of the translation?
>>=20
>> If so, that seems like the wrong thing to do.
>=20
> Utterly wrong.

Agreed.

> How does one refer to the latest version in v3 format?
> Something like
> <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/r=
eference.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml"/>
> doesn't work.

Given an existing URL, the handling of non-version-specific references in=

v2 and v3 should be equivalent.  Any reference URL that works in v2 shoul=
d
work in v3.  In v3, as in v2, the version-specific URLs include 'draft-'
in the name, while the non-version-specific URLs omits 'draft-'.  This is=
 a
legacy from Marshall Rose's time, and the inconsistency has been the same=

for years.

The correct <xi:include> entry for the non-version-specific reference sho=
uld
be:

  <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/r=
eference.I-D.andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml"/>

I've handled this differently in the reference entries generated on-the-f=
ly
by the datatracker; there all of the following forms:

   bibxml3/reference.I-D.andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml
   bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml
   bibxml3/reference.I-D.andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu-04.xml
   bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu-04.xml

work.  Expanding the second to the full path gives:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-=
and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml


Best regards,

	Henrik


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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 15.12.2019 21:21, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> ... > Yes.  v2 had default locations in which to look for bibxml files,
something
> I moved over to the v3 format's handling of <xi:include> entries.
>
> However, Julian insisted that for <xi:include>, the URL had to be fully
> specified, and having the same kind of fallback on default bibxml paths
> was disallowed, so I had to take that out, with a great deal of regret.
> ...

The point of introducing xi:include was to introduce a standard
inclusion mechanism not specific to IETF work. Tweaking it to do
something else really really is a hack, and is bad because it makes it
impossible to use standard Xinclude processors/libraries.

I happen to care about that, so that's why I complained.

We can have a discussion about a different method which is
IETF-specific, but that, by definition, can not be called xi:include.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Sun Dec 15 13:17:44 2019
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 2:37 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 16-Dec-19 08:20, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> On 12/15/19 6:38 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>>
>>>>>       <?rfc include="reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they can
>>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wrong to
>>>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>>>> ...
>>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed to
>>>> change this:
>>>>
>>>>>    V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>>>      --add-xinclude                      replace reference elements
>>>>> with RFC
>>>>>                                          and Internet-Draft seriesInfo
>>>>> with the
>>>>>                                          appropriate XInclude element
>>>> Best regards, Julian
>>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is
>>> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>>
>>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason to
>>> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special action?
>> Do I understand correctly that the translation takes a wildcard
>> reference (to the latest version of the draft) and binds it to a
>> particular version at the time of the translation?
>>
>> If so, that seems like the wrong thing to do.
> Utterly wrong. How does one refer to the latest version in v3 format?
> Something like
> <xi:include href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml"/>
> doesn't work.

I just ran --v2v3 --add-xinclude on a draft

and got:


         <xi:include 
href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-hip-dex-11.xml"/>
         <xi:include 
href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit-02.xml"/>
         <xi:include 
href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-moskowitz-mobile-privacy-attack-01.xml"/>

that is so broken.  We have done so much to reference drafts by the name 
and let tools provide the current draft that this represents a step back.

I might thing some kind of wildcarding is needed for the version number.

My $.02 worth.



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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 4:14 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 15.12.2019 21:21, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> ... > Yes.  v2 had default locations in which to look for bibxml files,
> something
>> I moved over to the v3 format's handling of <xi:include> entries.
>>
>> However, Julian insisted that for <xi:include>, the URL had to be fully
>> specified, and having the same kind of fallback on default bibxml paths
>> was disallowed, so I had to take that out, with a great deal of regret.
>> ...
>
> The point of introducing xi:include was to introduce a standard
> inclusion mechanism not specific to IETF work. Tweaking it to do
> something else really really is a hack, and is bad because it makes it
> impossible to use standard Xinclude processors/libraries.
>
> I happen to care about that, so that's why I complained.
>
> We can have a discussion about a different method which is
> IETF-specific, but that, by definition, can not be called xi:include.

Perhaps if instead of an absolute URL there is a URI that provides the 
information so the latest draft info is retrieved?

Something like:

<xi:include 
href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/?ID=reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>

Having I-D.draft seems redundant?



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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Hi Bob,

On 2019-12-15 22:17, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On 12/15/19 2:37 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> On 16-Dec-19 08:20, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>>> On 12/15/19 6:38 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/15/19 5:03 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>>>> On 15.12.2019 03:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I really did not like it expanding <?rfc> references like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       <?rfc include=3D"reference.RFC.2119.xml"?>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason for the references rather than the content is that they=
 can
>>>>>> change (like author changes to drafts).  Thus I feel they are wron=
g to
>>>>>> expand and should be left as is.  I manually put them back.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>> There's the "--add-xinclude" command line switch which is supposed =
to
>>>>> change this:
>>>>>
>>>>>>    V2-V3 Converter Options:
>>>>>>      --add-xinclude                      replace reference element=
s
>>>>>> with RFC
>>>>>>                                          and Internet-Draft series=
Info
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>                                          appropriate XInclude elem=
ent
>>>>> Best regards, Julian
>>>> I will give this a try shortly, but I feel that the switch is
>>>> backwards.  The default should be NOT to expand xincludes.
>>>>
>>>> rfc xincludes are used for a vary valid reason.  What is the reason =
to
>>>> remove them for v3?  And making putting them back needing special ac=
tion?
>>> Do I understand correctly that the translation takes a wildcard
>>> reference (to the latest version of the draft) and binds it to a
>>> particular version at the time of the translation?
>>>
>>> If so, that seems like the wrong thing to do.
>> Utterly wrong. How does one refer to the latest version in v3 format?
>> Something like
>> <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/=
reference.I-D.draft-andrews-tcp-and-ipv6-use-minmtu.xml"/>
>> doesn't work.
>=20
> I just ran --v2v3 --add-xinclude on a draft
>=20
> and got:
>=20
>=20
>          <xi:include=20
> href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D=
=2Edraft-ietf-hip-dex-11.xml"/>
>          <xi:include=20
> href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D=
=2Edraft-moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit-02.xml"/>
>          <xi:include=20
> href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D=
=2Edraft-moskowitz-mobile-privacy-attack-01.xml"/>
>=20
> that is so broken.  We have done so much to reference drafts by the nam=
e=20
> and let tools provide the current draft that this represents a step bac=
k.

This is a result of the current v2v3 converter.  Change it to the followi=
ng,
and you're done, and can move forward:

   <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/=
reference.I-D.ietf-hip-dex.xml"/>
   <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/=
reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
   <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/=
reference.I-D.moskowitz-mobile-privacy-attack.xml"/>

> I might thing some kind of wildcarding is needed for the version number=
=2E

You can use non-version-specific URLs for v3 as for v2.  The expansion to=

a specific number happens only during the (current) v2v3 conversion.  But=

with xi:include you have to take care that you have the full and correct
URL, as the xi:include mechanism won't do any path or other adjustments
for you, the way v2's inclusion mechanisms did.


Regards,

	Henrik


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On Dec 15, 2019, at 22:17, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrote:
>=20
> so broken

Yep.  RFCXMLv3 appears to be a bit less of an authoring format than =
RFCXMLv2 was.
(Which is not surprising because it really was designed as a publishing =
format.)

The right way to solve that problem may be to use an actual authoring =
format for authoring (you know which one I=E2=80=99d recommend).

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Hi Bob,

On 2019-12-15 22:22, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On 12/15/19 4:14 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 15.12.2019 21:21, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> ... > Yes.  v2 had default locations in which to look for bibxml file=
s,
>> something
>>> I moved over to the v3 format's handling of <xi:include> entries.
>>>
>>> However, Julian insisted that for <xi:include>, the URL had to be ful=
ly
>>> specified, and having the same kind of fallback on default bibxml pat=
hs
>>> was disallowed, so I had to take that out, with a great deal of regre=
t.
>>> ...
>>
>> The point of introducing xi:include was to introduce a standard
>> inclusion mechanism not specific to IETF work. Tweaking it to do
>> something else really really is a hack, and is bad because it makes it=

>> impossible to use standard Xinclude processors/libraries.
>>
>> I happen to care about that, so that's why I complained.
>>
>> We can have a discussion about a different method which is
>> IETF-specific, but that, by definition, can not be called xi:include.
>=20
> Perhaps if instead of an absolute URL there is a URI that provides the =

> information so the latest draft info is retrieved?
>=20
> Something like:
>=20
> <xi:include=20
> href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/?ID=3Dreferen=
ce.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
>=20
> Having I-D.draft seems redundant?

Indeed.

I'd recommend this:

  <xi:include href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-mosk=
owitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>

for reduced redundancy, but this also works, and uses the same reference
files as before:

   <xi:include href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/=
reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>

(i.e., your proposal minus the '?ID=3D' part).


Regards,

	Henrik


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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 4:54 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> On 2019-12-15 22:22, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>> On 12/15/19 4:14 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 15.12.2019 21:21, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>> ... > Yes.  v2 had default locations in which to look for bibxml files,
>>> something
>>>> I moved over to the v3 format's handling of <xi:include> entries.
>>>>
>>>> However, Julian insisted that for <xi:include>, the URL had to be fully
>>>> specified, and having the same kind of fallback on default bibxml paths
>>>> was disallowed, so I had to take that out, with a great deal of regret.
>>>> ...
>>> The point of introducing xi:include was to introduce a standard
>>> inclusion mechanism not specific to IETF work. Tweaking it to do
>>> something else really really is a hack, and is bad because it makes it
>>> impossible to use standard Xinclude processors/libraries.
>>>
>>> I happen to care about that, so that's why I complained.
>>>
>>> We can have a discussion about a different method which is
>>> IETF-specific, but that, by definition, can not be called xi:include.
>> Perhaps if instead of an absolute URL there is a URI that provides the
>> information so the latest draft info is retrieved?
>>
>> Something like:
>>
>> <xi:include
>> href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/?ID=reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
>>
>> Having I-D.draft seems redundant?
> Indeed.
>
> I'd recommend this:
>
>    <xi:include href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
>
> for reduced redundancy, but this also works, and uses the same reference
> files as before:
>
>     <xi:include href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
>
> (i.e., your proposal minus the '?ID=' part).

Ok that works.  But for those not following this thread, I would hope 
that v2v3 is improved with a real ?rfc to xi:include converter...



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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/fUxKELQzWkJkW5VzHgCkNpAW5SE>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/15/19 4:54 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> 
> On 2019-12-15 22:22, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/19 4:14 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 15.12.2019 21:21, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>> ... > Yes.  v2 had default locations in which to look for bibxml files,
>>> something
>>>> I moved over to the v3 format's handling of <xi:include> entries.
>>>>
>>>> However, Julian insisted that for <xi:include>, the URL had to be fully
>>>> specified, and having the same kind of fallback on default bibxml paths
>>>> was disallowed, so I had to take that out, with a great deal of regret.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> The point of introducing xi:include was to introduce a standard
>>> inclusion mechanism not specific to IETF work. Tweaking it to do
>>> something else really really is a hack, and is bad because it makes it
>>> impossible to use standard Xinclude processors/libraries.
>>>
>>> I happen to care about that, so that's why I complained.
>>>
>>> We can have a discussion about a different method which is
>>> IETF-specific, but that, by definition, can not be called xi:include.
>>
>> Perhaps if instead of an absolute URL there is a URI that provides the
>> information so the latest draft info is retrieved?
>>
>> Something like:
>>
>> <xi:include
>> href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/?ID=reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
>>
>> Having I-D.draft seems redundant?
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I'd recommend this:
> 
>    <xi:include href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bibxml3/draft-moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
> 
> for reduced redundancy, but this also works, and uses the same reference
> files as before:
> 
>     <xi:include href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit.xml"/>
> 
> (i.e., your proposal minus the '?ID=' part).

For those of us who don't follow this closely, it would be very helpful 
to have guide on best practices for incorporating references into xmlv3 
documents, including:

- where to find the stuff for any desired document
- best way to incorporate when adding new references to a document
- how best to ensure this is done properly when migrating a document 
from v2, ore when reverse engineering a .txt document (when preparing 
for a bis.)

In v2 I've learned a way that "works" most of the time. But I have no 
confidence that it is the best way.

	Thanks,
	Paul


From nobody Sun Dec 15 22:08:03 2019
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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 07:07:28 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 15.12.2019 22:50, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> > ...
> You can use non-version-specific URLs for v3 as for v2.  The expansion t=
o
> a specific number happens only during the (current) v2v3 conversion.  Bu=
t
> with xi:include you have to take care that you have the full and correct
> URL, as the xi:include mechanism won't do any path or other adjustments
> for you, the way v2's inclusion mechanisms did.
> ...

Yes, but that means baking knowledge of the "right" URIs into the processo=
r.

An IMHO better alternative would be to move these smarts into the HTTP
server that serves the references.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Mon Dec 16 03:42:45 2019
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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com> <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de> <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com> <72af41a6-6cd9-9d0e-289b-627be72f6694@gmx.de> <f5f78d62-cff4-40ac-fb5d-37ffcf303274@htt-consult.com> <953ec9f7-f38f-3da7-d7c6-80ad881bfd62@levkowetz.com> <7d8e40e7-2df8-ea89-c3d3-611dffc8d62f@gmx.de> <5aa556a3-111b-66ba-4bd8-ef5d6df19550@htt-consult.com> <3277c879-6ff9-fc45-b9ca-4098bee1ef14@levkowetz.com> <9c55c3d3-bbbd-19d6-3833-61764e9b704a@alum.mit.edu>
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 12:42:23 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
Message-ID: <a5974b6d-97d1-e095-e7cf-5892e2e8f149@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com>
 <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de>
 <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com>
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 <f5f78d62-cff4-40ac-fb5d-37ffcf303274@htt-consult.com>
 <953ec9f7-f38f-3da7-d7c6-80ad881bfd62@levkowetz.com>
 <7d8e40e7-2df8-ea89-c3d3-611dffc8d62f@gmx.de>
 <5aa556a3-111b-66ba-4bd8-ef5d6df19550@htt-consult.com>
 <3277c879-6ff9-fc45-b9ca-4098bee1ef14@levkowetz.com>
 <9c55c3d3-bbbd-19d6-3833-61764e9b704a@alum.mit.edu>
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Hi Paul,

On 2019-12-16 01:31, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> For those of us who don't follow this closely, it would be very helpful=
=20
> to have guide on best practices for incorporating references into xmlv3=
=20
> documents, including:
>=20
> - where to find the stuff for any desired document
> - best way to incorporate when adding new references to a document
> - how best to ensure this is done properly when migrating a document=20
> from v2, ore when reverse engineering a .txt document (when preparing=20
> for a bis.)
>=20
> In v2 I've learned a way that "works" most of the time. But I have no=20
> confidence that it is the best way.

The RFC-Editor has shared the FAQ they put together for internal use:

  https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/FAQ-xml2rfcv3.html

Maybe that will help?

Regards,

	Henrik


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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com> <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de> <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com> <72af41a6-6cd9-9d0e-289b-627be72f6694@gmx.de> <f5f78d62-cff4-40ac-fb5d-37ffcf303274@htt-consult.com> <953ec9f7-f38f-3da7-d7c6-80ad881bfd62@levkowetz.com> <7d8e40e7-2df8-ea89-c3d3-611dffc8d62f@gmx.de> <5aa556a3-111b-66ba-4bd8-ef5d6df19550@htt-consult.com> <3277c879-6ff9-fc45-b9ca-4098bee1ef14@levkowetz.com> <9c55c3d3-bbbd-19d6-3833-61764e9b704a@alum.mit.edu> <a5974b6d-97d1-e095-e7cf-5892e2e8f149@levkowetz.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 08:42:15 -0500
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Subject: [xml2rfc] More conversion challenges - Re: Experience with --v2v3
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The draft had:

     <?rfc 
include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"?>


The --add-xinclude did not work.  I got:

         <reference anchor="NIST.FIPS.202" 
xml:base="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202">
           <front>
             <title>SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and 
Extendable-Output Functions</title>
             <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.6028/nist.fips.202"/>
             <seriesInfo name="National Institute of Standards and 
Technology" value="report"/>
             <author initials="M." surname="Dworkin" fullname="Morris J. 
Dworkin">
               <organization/>
             </author>
             <date year="2015" month="July"/>
           </front>
         </reference>

Should it have generated:

         <xi:include 
href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"/>

??



From nobody Mon Dec 16 06:09:49 2019
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com> <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de> <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com> <72af41a6-6cd9-9d0e-289b-627be72f6694@gmx.de> <f5f78d62-cff4-40ac-fb5d-37ffcf303274@htt-consult.com> <953ec9f7-f38f-3da7-d7c6-80ad881bfd62@levkowetz.com> <7d8e40e7-2df8-ea89-c3d3-611dffc8d62f@gmx.de> <5aa556a3-111b-66ba-4bd8-ef5d6df19550@htt-consult.com> <3277c879-6ff9-fc45-b9ca-4098bee1ef14@levkowetz.com> <9c55c3d3-bbbd-19d6-3833-61764e9b704a@alum.mit.edu> <a5974b6d-97d1-e095-e7cf-5892e2e8f149@levkowetz.com> <afc8a37a-c4ce-b1ae-88fd-c45aa23638c6@htt-consult.com>
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
Message-ID: <a8763605-a7e0-03fe-4d6a-3896330fcc36@levkowetz.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:09:38 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] More conversion challenges - Re: Experience with --v2v3
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>,
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Subject: Re: More conversion challenges - Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Hi Bob,

On 2019-12-16 14:42, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> The draft had:
>=20
>      <?rfc=20
> include=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.=
DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=3DNIST.FIPS.202"?>
>=20
>=20
> The --add-xinclude did not work.  I got:
>=20
>          <reference anchor=3D"NIST.FIPS.202"=20
> xml:base=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference=
=2EDOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=3DNIST.FIPS.202">
>            <front>
>              <title>SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and=20
> Extendable-Output Functions</title>
>              <seriesInfo name=3D"DOI" value=3D"10.6028/nist.fips.202"/>=

>              <seriesInfo name=3D"National Institute of Standards and=20
> Technology" value=3D"report"/>
>              <author initials=3D"M." surname=3D"Dworkin" fullname=3D"Mo=
rris J.=20
> Dworkin">
>                <organization/>
>              </author>
>              <date year=3D"2015" month=3D"July"/>
>            </front>
>          </reference>
>=20
> Should it have generated:
>=20
>          <xi:include=20
> href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI=
=2E10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=3DNIST.FIPS.202"/>

Not currently.  I'll look at making that possible when I rewrite the
<xi:include> handling.


Regards,

	Henrik


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From nobody Mon Dec 16 06:19:34 2019
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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com> <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de> <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com> <72af41a6-6cd9-9d0e-289b-627be72f6694@gmx.de> <f5f78d62-cff4-40ac-fb5d-37ffcf303274@htt-consult.com> <953ec9f7-f38f-3da7-d7c6-80ad881bfd62@levkowetz.com> <7d8e40e7-2df8-ea89-c3d3-611dffc8d62f@gmx.de> <5aa556a3-111b-66ba-4bd8-ef5d6df19550@htt-consult.com> <3277c879-6ff9-fc45-b9ca-4098bee1ef14@levkowetz.com> <9c55c3d3-bbbd-19d6-3833-61764e9b704a@alum.mit.edu> <a5974b6d-97d1-e095-e7cf-5892e2e8f149@levkowetz.com> <afc8a37a-c4ce-b1ae-88fd-c45aa23638c6@htt-consult.com> <a8763605-a7e0-03fe-4d6a-3896330fcc36@levkowetz.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
Message-ID: <e3dd8ae6-421f-0b1d-6fd8-8b6d1c50710a@htt-consult.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:19:21 -0500
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] More conversion challenges - Re: Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/16/19 9:09 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> On 2019-12-16 14:42, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> The draft had:
>>
>>       <?rfc
>> include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"?>
>>
>>
>> The --add-xinclude did not work.  I got:
>>
>>           <reference anchor="NIST.FIPS.202"
>> xml:base="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202">
>>             <front>
>>               <title>SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and
>> Extendable-Output Functions</title>
>>               <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.6028/nist.fips.202"/>
>>               <seriesInfo name="National Institute of Standards and
>> Technology" value="report"/>
>>               <author initials="M." surname="Dworkin" fullname="Morris J.
>> Dworkin">
>>                 <organization/>
>>               </author>
>>               <date year="2015" month="July"/>
>>             </front>
>>           </reference>
>>
>> Should it have generated:
>>
>>           <xi:include
>> href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"/>
> Not currently.  I'll look at making that possible when I rewrite the
> <xi:include> handling.

Did I at least get the new format correct for a NIST reference in the 
xi:include manner?

>
>
> Regards,
>
> 	Henrik
>


From nobody Mon Dec 16 06:26:31 2019
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>,
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Subject: Re: More conversion challenges - Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Hi Bob,

On 2019-12-16 15:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On 12/16/19 9:09 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> On 2019-12-16 14:42, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> The draft had:
>>>
>>>       <?rfc
>>> include=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/referenc=
e.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=3DNIST.FIPS.202"?>
>>>
>>>
>>> The --add-xinclude did not work.  I got:
>>>
>>>           <reference anchor=3D"NIST.FIPS.202"
>>> xml:base=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/referen=
ce.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=3DNIST.FIPS.202">
>>>             <front>
>>>               <title>SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and
>>> Extendable-Output Functions</title>
>>>               <seriesInfo name=3D"DOI" value=3D"10.6028/nist.fips.202=
"/>
>>>               <seriesInfo name=3D"National Institute of Standards and=

>>> Technology" value=3D"report"/>
>>>               <author initials=3D"M." surname=3D"Dworkin" fullname=3D=
"Morris J.
>>> Dworkin">
>>>                 <organization/>
>>>               </author>
>>>               <date year=3D"2015" month=3D"July"/>
>>>             </front>
>>>           </reference>
>>>
>>> Should it have generated:
>>>
>>>           <xi:include
>>> href=3D"https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.D=
OI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=3DNIST.FIPS.202"/>
>> Not currently.  I'll look at making that possible when I rewrite the
>> <xi:include> handling.
>=20
> Did I at least get the new format correct for a NIST reference in the=20
> xi:include manner?

Yes, it looks good :-)


	Henrik


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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:47:25 -0500
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] More conversion challenges - Re: Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/16/19 9:26 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> On 2019-12-16 15:19, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>> On 12/16/19 9:09 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> On 2019-12-16 14:42, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>> The draft had:
>>>>
>>>>        <?rfc
>>>> include="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"?>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The --add-xinclude did not work.  I got:
>>>>
>>>>            <reference anchor="NIST.FIPS.202"
>>>> xml:base="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202">
>>>>              <front>
>>>>                <title>SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and
>>>> Extendable-Output Functions</title>
>>>>                <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.6028/nist.fips.202"/>
>>>>                <seriesInfo name="National Institute of Standards and
>>>> Technology" value="report"/>
>>>>                <author initials="M." surname="Dworkin" fullname="Morris J.
>>>> Dworkin">
>>>>                  <organization/>
>>>>                </author>
>>>>                <date year="2015" month="July"/>
>>>>              </front>
>>>>            </reference>
>>>>
>>>> Should it have generated:
>>>>
>>>>            <xi:include
>>>> href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"/>
>>> Not currently.  I'll look at making that possible when I rewrite the
>>> <xi:include> handling.
>> Did I at least get the new format correct for a NIST reference in the
>> xi:include manner?
> Yes, it looks good :-)
>

Interestingly enough a slight difference in results:

The <?rfc method:

    [NIST.FIPS.202]
               Dworkin, M., "SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and
               Extendable-Output Functions", DOI 10.6028/nist.fips.202,
               National Institute of Standards and Technology report,
               July 2015, <https://doi.org/10.6028/nist.fips.202>.

the <xi method:

    [NIST.FIPS.202]
               Dworkin, M., "SHA-3 Standard: Permutation-Based Hash and
               Extendable-Output Functions", National Institute of
               Standards and Technology report,
               DOI 10.6028/nist.fips.202, July 2015,
               <https://doi.org/10.6028/nist.fips.202>.


:)



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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/16/19 6:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> On 2019-12-16 01:31, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> For those of us who don't follow this closely, it would be very helpful
>> to have guide on best practices for incorporating references into xmlv3
>> documents, including:
>>
>> - where to find the stuff for any desired document
>> - best way to incorporate when adding new references to a document
>> - how best to ensure this is done properly when migrating a document
>> from v2, ore when reverse engineering a .txt document (when preparing
>> for a bis.)
>>
>> In v2 I've learned a way that "works" most of the time. But I have no
>> confidence that it is the best way.
> 
> The RFC-Editor has shared the FAQ they put together for internal use:
> 
>    https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/FAQ-xml2rfcv3.html
> 
> Maybe that will help?

Yes it does!

Is that a stable reference that will be maintained?

	Thanks,
	Paul


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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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I see examples of section=5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section number 
will tend to be version specific.

Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?

I am missing it in the FAQs.

thanks


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 17:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> I see examples of section=3D5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section number
> will tend to be version specific.
>
> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?
>
> I am missing it in the FAQs.

You set anchor=3D"label" on the section that you want to reference, and
then use <xref target=3D"label"/> in order to reference it.

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 12/16/19 11:47 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> I see examples of section=5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section number 
> will tend to be version specific.
> 
> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?
> 
> I am missing it in the FAQs.

How do you imagine that working? When following the reference while 
reading, this will be looking at the html or txt version of the 
document. Does the html version use the same anchors as the xml version 
does? And in case of txt, the reader can't see the anchors.

	What did you have in mind?
	Paul


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 12/16/19 12:01 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 16.12.2019 17:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> I see examples of section=5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section number
>> will tend to be version specific.
>>
>> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?
>>
>> I am missing it in the FAQs.
>
> You set anchor="label" on the section that you want to reference, and
> then use <xref target="label"/> in order to reference it.

I was not clear enough.

Consider:

<xref target="I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake" format="default"
     section="4" sectionFormat="of">"Using cSHAKE in ORCHIDs"</xref>

And in moskowitz-orchid-cshake I have:

<section anchor="Decode" numbered="true" toc="default"> <name>ORCHID 
Decoding</name>

I want to use that anchor, "Decode" from the xml, not the section # that 
ended up in the current ver of the draft's txt.

thanks


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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 18:07, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 12/16/19 12:01 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 16.12.2019 17:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> I see examples of section=3D5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section numbe=
r
>>> will tend to be version specific.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?
>>>
>>> I am missing it in the FAQs.
>>
>> You set anchor=3D"label" on the section that you want to reference, and
>> then use <xref target=3D"label"/> in order to reference it.
>
> I was not clear enough.
>
> Consider:
>
> <xref target=3D"I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake" format=3D"default"
>  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section=3D"4" sectionFormat=3D"of">"Using cSHAKE in =
ORCHIDs"</xref>
>
> And in moskowitz-orchid-cshake I have:
>
> <section anchor=3D"Decode" numbered=3D"true" toc=3D"default"> <name>ORCH=
ID
> Decoding</name>
>
> I want to use that anchor, "Decode" from the xml, not the section # that
> ended up in the current ver of the draft's txt.
> ...

That's not currently possible in xml2rfc.

It *is* possible, if you run a preprocessor on the XML (such as the one
coming with rfc2629.xslt, but that in turn currently only supports a
subset of v3).

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Mon Dec 16 09:30:27 2019
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 12/16/19 12:18 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 16.12.2019 18:07, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/16/19 12:01 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 16.12.2019 17:47, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>>> I see examples of section=5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section number
>>>> will tend to be version specific.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?
>>>>
>>>> I am missing it in the FAQs.
>>>
>>> You set anchor="label" on the section that you want to reference, and
>>> then use <xref target="label"/> in order to reference it.
>>
>> I was not clear enough.
>>
>> Consider:
>>
>> <xref target="I-D.moskowitz-orchid-cshake" format="default"
>>      section="4" sectionFormat="of">"Using cSHAKE in ORCHIDs"</xref>
>>
>> And in moskowitz-orchid-cshake I have:
>>
>> <section anchor="Decode" numbered="true" toc="default"> <name>ORCHID
>> Decoding</name>
>>
>> I want to use that anchor, "Decode" from the xml, not the section # that
>> ended up in the current ver of the draft's txt.
>> ...
>
> That's not currently possible in xml2rfc.
>
> It *is* possible, if you run a preprocessor on the XML (such as the one
> coming with rfc2629.xslt, but that in turn currently only supports a
> subset of v3).

I kind of thought this would be the case.  You basically have to run 
xml2rfc to get the section # assigned to the section.

I remember times past struggling to kept all the sec # aligned in a set 
of cross-referenced drafts.

So put this into a feature request :)



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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 18:30, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> ...
> I kind of thought this would be the case.=C2=A0 You basically have to ru=
n
> xml2rfc to get the section # assigned to the section.
>
> I remember times past struggling to kept all the sec # aligned in a set
> of cross-referenced drafts.
>
> So put this into a feature request :)
> ...

Well, my code *does* have that feature (as extension), because we needed
that for the HTTP specs...

We briefly discussed that for v3, but decided it to be out of scope back
then. (But then we also thought v3 would be put into production years
ago...).

Best regards, Julian


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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On Dec 16, 2019, at 17:47, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrote:
>=20
> I see examples of section=3D5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section =
number will tend to be version specific.
>=20
> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?

To translate the anchor label into a section number (or a section =
title), the referencing spec would need access to the referenced spec.  =
To generate a standalone document, this could be implemented by =
including the referenced spec into the referencing document, or more =
reasonably just an abstraction of it that leaves only the information =
needed for that translation (a =E2=80=9Cside file=E2=80=9D in =
traditional formatter jargon).

I believe the best way to handle this would be to keep extracted =E2=80=9C=
side files=E2=80=9D of this kind for all specs (drafts and RFCs), ready =
for inclusion just like we include the extracted reference information =
itself into a referencing spec.  This does not just require changes to =
xml2rfc and related tools, but also to the infrastructure we use to keep =
copies of specs and their reference extractions.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 18:53, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On Dec 16, 2019, at 17:47, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com> wrote:
>>
>> I see examples of section=3D5 for RFCs, but for IDs, the section number=
 will tend to be version specific.
>>
>> Is there a way to reference the anchor label for the desired section?
>
> To translate the anchor label into a section number (or a section title)=
, the referencing spec would need access to the referenced spec.  To gener=
ate a standalone document, this could be implemented by including the refe=
renced spec into the referencing document, or more reasonably just an abst=
raction of it that leaves only the information needed for that translation=
 (a =E2=80=9Cside file=E2=80=9D in traditional formatter jargon).
>
> I believe the best way to handle this would be to keep extracted =E2=80=
=9Cside files=E2=80=9D of this kind for all specs (drafts and RFCs), ready=
 for inclusion just like we include the extracted reference information it=
self into a referencing spec.  This does not just require changes to xml2r=
fc and related tools, but also to the infrastructure we use to keep copies=
 of specs and their reference extractions.
> ...

That wouldn't work well for specs that are revised and published in sync
(such as QUIC and http-core).

The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
<reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatter
can then read the source and derive the section number.

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 12/16/19 1:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:

> The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
> <reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatter
> can then read the source and derive the section number.

This will only work when the reference is bound to a single immutable 
version of the document. It won't work for a wildcard reference to the 
"latest" version.

	Thanks,
	Paul


From nobody Mon Dec 16 10:59:57 2019
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 12/16/19 1:26 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 12/16/19 1:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>
>> The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
>> <reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatter
>> can then read the source and derive the section number.
>
> This will only work when the reference is bound to a single immutable 
> version of the document. It won't work for a wildcard reference to the 
> "latest" version.

I disagree.  that is often EXACTLY what you want.  I don't control 
draft-x, but I need to reference a specific section in my draft-y. The 
author(s) of draft-x have sent me the anchor they will maintain for the 
section I am concerned with.  I will always want my draft-y to point to 
the current section in the current draft.

They could have published 5 min before me, and I will want my section 
reference to match.

Been there.  Done that.



From nobody Mon Dec 16 11:03:00 2019
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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 19:26, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 12/16/19 1:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>
>> The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
>> <reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatter
>> can then read the source and derive the section number.
>
> This will only work when the reference is bound to a single immutable
> version of the document. It won't work for a wildcard reference to the
> "latest" version.

Well, it *does* work for the "latest" version, if you have the URI of
the "latest" XML.

Believe me, we (the HTTPBIS WG) have been doing this for a decade.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Mon Dec 16 11:18:51 2019
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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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Hi Paul,

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> On 12/16/19 6:42 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> On 2019-12-16 01:31, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>>> For those of us who don't follow this closely, it would be very helpful
>>> to have guide on best practices for incorporating references into xmlv3
>>> documents, including:
>>> 
>>> - where to find the stuff for any desired document
>>> - best way to incorporate when adding new references to a document
>>> - how best to ensure this is done properly when migrating a document
>>> from v2, ore when reverse engineering a .txt document (when preparing
>>> for a bis.)
>>> 
>>> In v2 I've learned a way that "works" most of the time. But I have no
>>> confidence that it is the best way.
>> The RFC-Editor has shared the FAQ they put together for internal use:
>>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/FAQ-xml2rfcv3.html
>> Maybe that will help?
> 
> Yes it does!
> 
> Is that a stable reference that will be maintained?

Yes - we will continue to update the FAQ as needed.

Thank you,
Sandy 


> 
> 	Thanks,
> 	Paul
> 
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
> 


From nobody Mon Dec 16 11:19:45 2019
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <3a3dcf15-dfbe-73ce-1b83-f2b6b22d9c36@htt-consult.com> <57ecdc48-5a9c-7587-e6ef-b2ff78303a76@gmx.de> <637a5e4f-0d9c-26c5-8c19-c4b8c810ccbc@htt-consult.com> <90f8277e-78e8-5246-4d69-4456409e8853@comcast.net> <753966a6-06e1-01b3-728d-595a744b0d6f@gmail.com> <546c8ea5-3889-eb2c-7b35-da4d05fdb697@htt-consult.com> <a4a8e997-e19f-609e-812e-4674d94f1b75@levkowetz.com> <4f1372a8-c7a3-81fb-a32c-1a1639f7f088@gmx.de>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 08:19:40 +1300
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 16-Dec-19 19:07, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 15.12.2019 22:50, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> ...
>> You can use non-version-specific URLs for v3 as for v2.  The expansion to
>> a specific number happens only during the (current) v2v3 conversion.  But
>> with xi:include you have to take care that you have the full and correct
>> URL, as the xi:include mechanism won't do any path or other adjustments
>> for you, the way v2's inclusion mechanisms did.
>> ...
> 
> Yes, but that means baking knowledge of the "right" URIs into the processor.
> 
> An IMHO better alternative would be to move these smarts into the HTTP
> server that serves the references.

You mean something like
https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.fz-6man-ipv6-alt-mark.xml ?

   Brian


From nobody Mon Dec 16 11:26:59 2019
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <b43e0951-a23a-8a77-9bed-3777e58ad87f@gmx.de>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 20:26:29 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/QtIHqrA0JRnffWDYGIvhea-wCr4>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 16.12.2019 20:19, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 16-Dec-19 19:07, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 15.12.2019 22:50, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>> ...
>>> You can use non-version-specific URLs for v3 as for v2.  The expansion=
 to
>>> a specific number happens only during the (current) v2v3 conversion.  =
But
>>> with xi:include you have to take care that you have the full and corre=
ct
>>> URL, as the xi:include mechanism won't do any path or other adjustment=
s
>>> for you, the way v2's inclusion mechanisms did.
>>> ...
>>
>> Yes, but that means baking knowledge of the "right" URIs into the proce=
ssor.
>>
>> An IMHO better alternative would be to move these smarts into the HTTP
>> server that serves the references.
>
> You mean something like
> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.fz-6man-=
ipv6-alt-mark.xml ?

I would argue that we should be able to set up servers so that all of thes=
e

   http://....ietf.org/bib/rfcnnnn.xml

   http://....ietf.org/bib/draft-name-foo.xml (latest)

   http://....ietf.org/bib/draft-name-foo-nn.xml

work. So authors should not even have to think about which "folder" the
reference is in...

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Mon Dec 16 11:44:48 2019
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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Paul Kyzivat <paul.kyzivat@comcast.net>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Experience with --v2v3
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On 12/16/19 2:26 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 16.12.2019 20:19, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> On 16-Dec-19 19:07, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>> On 15.12.2019 22:50, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>> You can use non-version-specific URLs for v3 as for v2.  The 
>>>> expansion to
>>>> a specific number happens only during the (current) v2v3 
>>>> conversion.  But
>>>> with xi:include you have to take care that you have the full and 
>>>> correct
>>>> URL, as the xi:include mechanism won't do any path or other 
>>>> adjustments
>>>> for you, the way v2's inclusion mechanisms did.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Yes, but that means baking knowledge of the "right" URIs into the 
>>> processor.
>>>
>>> An IMHO better alternative would be to move these smarts into the HTTP
>>> server that serves the references.
>>
>> You mean something like
>> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.fz-6man-ipv6-alt-mark.xml 
>> ?
>
> I would argue that we should be able to set up servers so that all of 
> these
>
>   http://....ietf.org/bib/rfcnnnn.xml
>
>   http://....ietf.org/bib/draft-name-foo.xml (latest)
>
>   http://....ietf.org/bib/draft-name-foo-nn.xml
>
> work. So authors should not even have to think about which "folder" the
> reference is in...

Got my vote.  But the NIST references from bibxml7 seem to work 
differently than the RFC and IDs:


<xi:include 
href="https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml7/reference.DOI.10.6028/NIST.FIPS.202.xml?anchor=NIST.FIPS.202"/>

Would be nice if those and other orgs DOI references all work nicely 
without learning the specific magic.



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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <5d192de5-c6ca-aa1f-b7e0-0500704e491a@htt-consult.com> <C8AF4E96-E5BB-4232-B58C-A617E404DFF4@tzi.org> <78372dfd-39ff-183f-4f51-0b2c7e8d73d0@gmx.de> <f0253702-7b84-9dc1-08c8-87c8d97f3086@alum.mit.edu> <ffb41a52-f9d6-3776-cae7-58b123878ab6@gmx.de>
From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/SOfxYkcRrRgfpMMrSmi0bCtGoNQ>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 12/16/19 2:02 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 16.12.2019 19:26, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> On 12/16/19 1:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>
>>> The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
>>> <reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatter
>>> can then read the source and derive the section number.
>>
>> This will only work when the reference is bound to a single immutable
>> version of the document. It won't work for a wildcard reference to the
>> "latest" version.
> 
> Well, it *does* work for the "latest" version, if you have the URI of
> the "latest" XML.
> 
> Believe me, we (the HTTPBIS WG) have been doing this for a decade.

I don't see how you are going to make that work.

Suppose we have draft-foo that contains a reference to section-xyz of 
draft-bar. Now at the time draft-foo-00.xml is submitted the most recent 
version of draft-bar is -00 and in that section-xyz is Section 6. When 
it is posted, draft-foo-00.txt and draft-foo-00.html are generated.

Later, draft-bar-01 is posted in which section-xyz is Section 8. 
Subsequently, what will the reference look like when I view 
draft-foo-00.txt and draft-foo-00.html in a browser? Note that these 
have not been regenerated from the xml since the original submission.

	Thanks,
	Paul


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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
References: <5d192de5-c6ca-aa1f-b7e0-0500704e491a@htt-consult.com> <C8AF4E96-E5BB-4232-B58C-A617E404DFF4@tzi.org> <78372dfd-39ff-183f-4f51-0b2c7e8d73d0@gmx.de> <f0253702-7b84-9dc1-08c8-87c8d97f3086@alum.mit.edu> <ffb41a52-f9d6-3776-cae7-58b123878ab6@gmx.de> <380c21e0-ab94-2b28-b944-3bf5e63f0feb@alum.mit.edu>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 06:58:06 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 21:26, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 12/16/19 2:02 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 16.12.2019 19:26, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>>> On 12/16/19 1:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>>
>>>> The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
>>>> <reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatt=
er
>>>> can then read the source and derive the section number.
>>>
>>> This will only work when the reference is bound to a single immutable
>>> version of the document. It won't work for a wildcard reference to the
>>> "latest" version.
>>
>> Well, it *does* work for the "latest" version, if you have the URI of
>> the "latest" XML.
>>
>> Believe me, we (the HTTPBIS WG) have been doing this for a decade.
>
> I don't see how you are going to make that work.
>
> Suppose we have draft-foo that contains a reference to section-xyz of
> draft-bar. Now at the time draft-foo-00.xml is submitted the most recent
> version of draft-bar is -00 and in that section-xyz is Section 6. When
> it is posted, draft-foo-00.txt and draft-foo-00.html are generated.
>
> Later, draft-bar-01 is posted in which section-xyz is Section 8.
> Subsequently, what will the reference look like when I view
> draft-foo-00.txt and draft-foo-00.html in a browser? Note that these
> have not been regenerated from the xml since the original submission.

IDs and RFCs, once published, are immutable.

A *published* draft usually should not reference parts of editor's copy
of another draft.

What *does* work (and that's what I was referring to) is having
auto-computed references between drafts that are published in sync, such
as currently the three http-core specs.

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Mon Dec 16 22:17:24 2019
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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On Dec 17, 2019, at 06:58, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>=20
> IDs and RFCs, once published, are immutable.
>=20
> A *published* draft usually should not reference parts of editor's =
copy
> of another draft.
>=20
> What *does* work (and that's what I was referring to) is having
> auto-computed references between drafts that are published in sync, =
such
> as currently the three http-core specs.

As usual, there is confusion between the authoring language and the =
publishing language.

The desired feature here is to have references to other documents in the =
authoring language that update automatically. =20

The time of commit is the time of publishing.  In the publishing =
language, there must not be references to information that changes, such =
as an unnumbered reference to an I-D.  Converting to plain text =
previously made sure that the commitment process happens.  Now, the =
conversion from the authoring language to the publishing language needs =
to be done by separate tool, which we tend to call =E2=80=9Cprep =
tool=E2=80=9D.

Julian, you are familiar with doing this between drafts published at the =
same time, but synchronized publishing is not at all a prerequisite to =
references (bibxml, section numbers/names) that auto-update.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 17.12.2019 07:17, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On Dec 17, 2019, at 06:58, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> IDs and RFCs, once published, are immutable.
>>
>> A *published* draft usually should not reference parts of editor's copy
>> of another draft.
>>
>> What *does* work (and that's what I was referring to) is having
>> auto-computed references between drafts that are published in sync, suc=
h
>> as currently the three http-core specs.
>
> As usual, there is confusion between the authoring language and the publ=
ishing language.
>
> The desired feature here is to have references to other documents in the=
 authoring language that update automatically.
>
> The time of commit is the time of publishing.  In the publishing languag=
e, there must not be references to information that changes, such as an un=
numbered reference to an I-D.  Converting to plain text previously made su=
re that the commitment process happens.  Now, the conversion from the auth=
oring language to the publishing language needs to be done by separate too=
l, which we tend to call =E2=80=9Cprep tool=E2=80=9D.
>
> Julian, you are familiar with doing this between drafts published at the=
 same time, but synchronized publishing is not at all a prerequisite to re=
ferences (bibxml, section numbers/names) that auto-update.
> ...

Yes, but.

In the case of independant submission times and for draft-foo
referencing draft-bar, you need to freeze the reference to draft-bar whe
  publishing draft-foo.

That is something that needs to be done at submission time, and it *can*
be automated. We don't *need* vocabulary support for that (but of course
we can discuss what could be done to simplify this).

Best regards, Julian


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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] can xref section= reference an anchor?
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On 16.12.2019 20:02, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 16.12.2019 19:26, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> On 12/16/19 1:04 PM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>
>>> The simplest possible approach for *that* use case is an extension of
>>> <reference> that provides the location of the XML source; the formatte=
r
>>> can then read the source and derive the section number.
>>
>> This will only work when the reference is bound to a single immutable
>> version of the document. It won't work for a wildcard reference to the
>> "latest" version.
>
> Well, it *does* work for the "latest" version, if you have the URI of
> the "latest" XML.
>
> Believe me, we (the HTTPBIS WG) have been doing this for a decade.
> ...

FWIW; I just checked whether I have documentation for that, and I do so
indeed:

<https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2629xslt/rfc2629xslt.html#ext.elemen=
t.source>

Best regards, Julian


From nobody Tue Dec 17 11:05:14 2019
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v2.37.2, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (2.37.2) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Refined the non-ascii punctuation (smart-quotes, etc.) downcoding, and 
    eliminated a couple of bugs that could lead to infinite looping or
    crash.  Fixes issue #473.

  * Made the xref labels used for different @section values work for 
    additional value types.

  * Fixed a couple of preptool bugs found during debugging of issue #473.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  17 Dec 2019 18:56:34 +0000

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
  'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/2.37.2'

Regards,

	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v2.37.2
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Le 17/12/2019 à 20:04, Henrik Levkowetz a écrit :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release,
> v2.37.2, generated when running the mkrelease script.
> 
> Release notes:
> 
> xml2rfc (2.37.2) ietf; urgency=medium
> 
>    * Refined the non-ascii punctuation (smart-quotes, etc.) downcoding, and
>      eliminated a couple of bugs that could lead to infinite looping or
>      crash.  Fixes issue #473.
> 
>    * Made the xref labels used for different @section values work for
>      additional value types.
> 
>    * Fixed a couple of preptool bugs found during debugging of issue #473.
> 
>   -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  17 Dec 2019 18:56:34 +0000
> 
> The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
> and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
> installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
> use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
> manually.
> 
> The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
>    'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/2.37.2'

Hi, Henrik,

Is this version what is being used by the GUI on the web at 
xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org?

Alex

> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Henrik
> 	(via the mkrelease script)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
> 


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Hi Alex,

On 2019-12-18 14:32, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Le 17/12/2019 =C3=A0 20:04, Henrik Levkowetz a =C3=A9crit :
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release,
>> v2.37.2, generated when running the mkrelease script.
>>=20
>> Release notes:
>>=20
>> xml2rfc (2.37.2) ietf; urgency=3Dmedium

=2E..

> Hi, Henrik,
>=20
> Is this version what is being used by the GUI on the web at=20
> xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org?


Yes, it is.

Regards,

	Henrik


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] [Rfc-markdown] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0
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On 18.10.2019 12:36, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 16.10.2019 20:01, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> On 08.10.2019 17:21, Sandy Ginoza wrote:
>>> Hi Tony,
>>>
>>>> On Oct 6, 2019, at 7:20 PM, HANSEN, TONY L <tony@att.com
>>>> <mailto:tony@att.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sandy, does the RPC feel that the ability to add a line break is
>>>> needed?
>>>
>>> Yes, the RPC would appreciate being able to use <br>.
>>> ...
>>
>> Just checking: absent <br/>, are you planning to use the Unicode escape
>> anytime soon? That would be a problem for the canonical XML, if we
>> decide to revert this change.
>> ...
>
> I note that there is one XML in AUTH48 using this (RFC 8668), so this
> really is a bit pressing.
> ...

OK, this is *really* frustrating.

We've discussed this *specific* problem for over two months. We knew the
RFC is in AUTH48. We agreed that <br> would be better here.

However, the RFC has been published as is, putting things into
"canonical XML" which are both undocumented and controversial.

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v2.37.3
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v2.37.3, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (2.37.3) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Undid margin-left: 0 for <dd> from the original supplied CSS, which
    caused nested lists to not have any distinction between levels.  Fixes
    issue #458.

  * Tweaked the margin of block elements within <aside>.  Fixes issue #469.

  * Added <dt> and <li> to list of block elements.  Fixes issue #453.

  * Treated pilcrows on sourcecode within figure the same way as artwork
    within figure (don't add a pilcrow, since the figure title already
    provides an anchor).  Fixes issue #475.

  * Don't use both @seriesNo and <seriesInfo> to emit series number.  Fixes 
    issue #477.

  * Added code to adapt the line break position for long Updates: and 
    Obsoletes: entries for long right-column entries.  Fixes issue #472.

  * Added normalization before the comparison that determines if <xref> 
    text content is different from derivedContent or not, and should be emitted 
    in addition to the derivedContent.  Fixes issue #466.

  * Fixed a case where simple derivedContent was used instead of fully 
    rendered explicit <xref> text content where available.  Fixes issue #474.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  21 Dec 2019 20:56:20 +0000

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
  'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/2.37.3'

Regards,

	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Antonin_D=C3=A9cimo?= <antonin.decimo@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 12:00:31 +0100
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Subject: [xml2rfc] [Bug]: AttributeError: module 'cgi' has no attribute 'escape'
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Hello,

I got this crash when generating html. I'm using Arch Linux, I
installed xml2rfc from pip. Text and pdf generation works fine.

    $ xml2rfc --html draft-ietf-babel-hmac.xml
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "/home/antonin/.local/bin/xml2rfc", line 11, in <module>
        load_entry_point('xml2rfc=3D=3D2.37.3', 'console_scripts', 'xml2rfc=
')()
      File "/home/antonin/.local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xml2rfc/run.py=
",
line 504, in main
        htmlwriter.write(filename)
      File "/home/antonin/.local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xml2rfc/writer=
s/base.py",
line 1441, in write
        self.post_rendering()
      File "/home/antonin/.local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xml2rfc/writer=
s/legacy_html.py",
line 830, in post_rendering
        'docName':         cgi.escape(docName, quote=3DTrue),
    AttributeError: module 'cgi' has no attribute 'escape'

Thanks to some googling, a possible fix can be found here:
https://github.com/jupyter/nbconvert/commit/1aa14e34ce5b7aa13ef7480216daa3f=
9a824766f

It would be nice to have a link to the bug tracker on the homepage, or
to mention where bugs are to be reported.

Thanks,

-- Antonin D=C3=A9cimo


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] [Bug]: AttributeError: module 'cgi' has no attribute 'escape'
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Hi Antonin,

On 2019-12-23 12:00, Antonin D=C3=A9cimo wrote:
> Hello,
>=20
> I got this crash when generating html. I'm using Arch Linux, I
> installed xml2rfc from pip. Text and pdf generation works fine.
>=20
>     $ xml2rfc --html draft-ietf-babel-hmac.xml
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "/home/antonin/.local/bin/xml2rfc", line 11, in <module>
>         load_entry_point('xml2rfc=3D=3D2.37.3', 'console_scripts', 'xml=
2rfc')()
>       File "/home/antonin/.local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xml2rfc/ru=
n.py",
> line 504, in main
>         htmlwriter.write(filename)
>       File "/home/antonin/.local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xml2rfc/wr=
iters/base.py",
> line 1441, in write
>         self.post_rendering()
>       File "/home/antonin/.local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/xml2rfc/wr=
iters/legacy_html.py",
> line 830, in post_rendering
>         'docName':         cgi.escape(docName, quote=3DTrue),
>     AttributeError: module 'cgi' has no attribute 'escape'
>=20
> Thanks to some googling, a possible fix can be found here:
> https://github.com/jupyter/nbconvert/commit/1aa14e34ce5b7aa13ef7480216d=
aa3f9a824766f

Right.  I see you're using Python 3.8; the current test suite only runs
the tests on Py27, Py35, Py36, and Py37.  I expect to start running Py38
tests when I remove Py27 support in January.  I'll fix this at that time,=

at the latest.

> It would be nice to have a link to the bug tracker on the homepage, or
> to mention where bugs are to be reported.

Mmm.  Pypi points at the home page https://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/t=
rac/,
which has an entry 'New ticket' in the menubar.  But I'll add text on the=
 page,
too.


Thanks for the alert!


Best regards,

	Henrik


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Hi!

Sorry, your mail went into my spam box :(

> Pypi points at the home page
> https://tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/, which has an entry 'New
> ticket' in the menubar.

Now that I see it, I don't understand how I missed that.
Thank you!

-- Antonin

