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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Dealing with IPv6 reverse DNS entries
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On 2020-11-01, at 04:28, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> <artset>
>=20
> <artwork align=3D"left" type=3D"ascii-art">
> <![CDATA[
> IPv6 PTR Records are too long for ASCII art.
> ]]></artwork>

I know you were just being silly, but for the benefit of onlookers let =
me opine	that this would be abuse of the artset feature and =
should never be accepted by the RFC editor.

(The artset feature of beta RFCXMLv3 was never subject to community =
review, so I think we never had this discussion.)

The only RFC with artset I can find is RFC 8899, which essentially sent =
their ASCII art through the =E2=80=9Cgoat=E2=80=9D tool to generate the =
HTML/PDF rendering (a feat that is also now directly supported by =
kramdown-rfc).  That is a sensible (if somewhat gratuitous) use of =
artset; the main problem for a proofreader is to check that the =
=E2=80=9CASCII=E2=80=9D art and the SVG mean the same thing.

Let=E2=80=99s see

~~~ goat
IN PTR =
e.9.6.a.0.d.a.0.2.5.9.1.d.a.3.a.4.1.0.0.8.2.0.0.4.1.0.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.
~~~

sure works, but doesn't help with

  ** There is 1 instance of too long lines in the document, the longest =
one
     being 8 characters in excess of 72.

and the SVG is not scalable.

What was the trick you used to make that scalable?

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 21:52:30 +1300
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Dealing with IPv6 reverse DNS entries
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--000000000000b4cdcf05b307c01d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Clearly it was partly a joke but there's a genuine problem when "plain"
text works in reasonable way in flowed html but incorrectly in txt.
My experience is that SVG scales correctly in the v3 html rendering iff
there is a viewbox element but no width & height elements. I assume there
is some CSS magic involved.
As for artset, what will we do about figures that simply cannot be
expressed in ascii art?

Regards
    Brian
    (via tiny screen & keyboard)

On Sun, 1 Nov 2020, 21:01 Carsten Bormann, <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

> On 2020-11-01, at 04:28, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > <artset>
> >
> > <artwork align=3D"left" type=3D"ascii-art">
> > <![CDATA[
> > IPv6 PTR Records are too long for ASCII art.
> > ]]></artwork>
>
> I know you were just being silly, but for the benefit of onlookers let me
> opine that this would be abuse of the artset feature and should never be
> accepted by the RFC editor.
>
> (The artset feature of beta RFCXMLv3 was never subject to community
> review, so I think we never had this discussion.)
>
> The only RFC with artset I can find is RFC 8899, which essentially sent
> their ASCII art through the =E2=80=9Cgoat=E2=80=9D tool to generate the H=
TML/PDF rendering
> (a feat that is also now directly supported by kramdown-rfc).  That is a
> sensible (if somewhat gratuitous) use of artset; the main problem for a
> proofreader is to check that the =E2=80=9CASCII=E2=80=9D art and the SVG =
mean the same
> thing.
>
> Let=E2=80=99s see
>
> ~~~ goat
> IN PTR
> e.9.6.a.0.d.a.0.2.5.9.1.d.a.3.a.4.1.0.0.8.2.0.0.4.1.0.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa.
> ~~~
>
> sure works, but doesn't help with
>
>   ** There is 1 instance of too long lines in the document, the longest o=
ne
>      being 8 characters in excess of 72.
>
> and the SVG is not scalable.
>
> What was the trick you used to make that scalable?
>
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>
>

--000000000000b4cdcf05b307c01d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Clearly it was partly a joke but there&#39;s a genuine pr=
oblem when &quot;plain&quot; text works in reasonable way in flowed html bu=
t incorrectly in txt.<div dir=3D"auto">My experience is that SVG scales cor=
rectly in the v3 html rendering iff there is a viewbox element but no width=
 &amp; height elements. I assume there is some CSS magic involved.</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">As for artset, what will we do about figures that simply can=
not be expressed in ascii art?<br><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatur=
e" dir=3D"auto">Regards<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Brian<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (=
via tiny screen &amp; keyboard)</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 1 Nov 2020, 21:01 Carste=
n Bormann, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cabo@tzi.org">cabo@tzi.org</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 2020-11-01, at 04:28, Brian E Ca=
rpenter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &lt;artset&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &lt;artwork align=3D&quot;left&quot; type=3D&quot;ascii-art&quot;&gt;<=
br>
&gt; &lt;![CDATA[<br>
&gt; IPv6 PTR Records are too long for ASCII art.<br>
&gt; ]]&gt;&lt;/artwork&gt;<br>
<br>
I know you were just being silly, but for the benefit of onlookers let me o=
pine that this would be abuse of the artset feature and should never be acc=
epted by the RFC editor.<br>
<br>
(The artset feature of beta RFCXMLv3 was never subject to community review,=
 so I think we never had this discussion.)<br>
<br>
The only RFC with artset I can find is RFC 8899, which essentially sent the=
ir ASCII art through the =E2=80=9Cgoat=E2=80=9D tool to generate the HTML/P=
DF rendering (a feat that is also now directly supported by kramdown-rfc).=
=C2=A0 That is a sensible (if somewhat gratuitous) use of artset; the main =
problem for a proofreader is to check that the =E2=80=9CASCII=E2=80=9D art =
and the SVG mean the same thing.<br>
<br>
Let=E2=80=99s see<br>
<br>
~~~ goat<br>
IN PTR e.9.6.a.0.d.a.0.2.5.9.1.d.a.3.a.4.1.0.0.8.2.0.0.4.1.0.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.=
arpa.<br>
~~~<br>
<br>
sure works, but doesn&#39;t help with<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 ** There is 1 instance of too long lines in the document, the longes=
t one<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0being 8 characters in excess of 72.<br>
<br>
and the SVG is not scalable.<br>
<br>
What was the trick you used to make that scalable?<br>
<br>
Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000b4cdcf05b307c01d--


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Dealing with IPv6 reverse DNS entries
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On 2020-11-01, at 09:52, Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Clearly it was partly a joke but there's a genuine problem when =
"plain" text works in reasonable way in flowed html but incorrectly in =
txt.

Right.  At the moment, the =E2=80=9Cswitch=E2=80=9D between different =
inputs is based on formats, so we=E2=80=99ll need to invent another =
format (plain text, but doesn=E2=80=99t render in txt) to make this =
work.

> My experience is that SVG scales correctly in the v3 html rendering =
iff there is a viewbox element but no width & height elements. I assume =
there is some CSS magic involved.

Good to know.
So I could put in an option scale=3D=E2=80=9Ctrue=E2=80=9D to delete =
width/height from the tool outputs.

> As for artset, what will we do about figures that simply cannot be =
expressed in ascii art?

Well, if they *cannot* be expressed, the RFC 1305 (1119/1129) exception =
applies.

I was talking about the case where that exception does not apply, but a =
malicious author doesn=E2=80=99t want to expend the effort (or, worse, =
wants to make a point by making the document unusable in .TXT).

(And, as usual on this list, this entire discussion belongs over at =
rfc-interest.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
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Subject: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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Reference links are now generated like this: http://tools.ietf.org/html//rfc2119

To be sure that I had not screwed up I downloaded https://tools.ietf.org/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml and got the same result when using the XML2RFC Web tool.

Thanx,
Anders


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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Am 04.11.2020 um 07:39 schrieb Anders Rundgren:
> Reference links are now generated like this:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html//rfc2119
>
> To be sure that I had not screwed up I downloaded
> https://tools.ietf.org/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml
> and got the same result when using the XML2RFC Web tool.
>
> Thanx,
> Anders

1) What do you have in the source code?
2) How do you generate the output? (xml2rfv version? offline/online?)
3) What exactly is in the output?

Best regards, Julian


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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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On 2020-11-04, at 07:39, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Reference links are now generated like this: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html//rfc2119

That (double slash) is a bug in rfcmarkup, but why does the subject say =
=E2=80=9Cdo not work any more=E2=80=9D?

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19820882-0eb8-06bf-7693-1bf8ec098197@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 10:55:43 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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On 2020-11-04 09:51, Julian Reschke wrote:
> Am 04.11.2020 um 07:39 schrieb Anders Rundgren:
>> Reference links are now generated like this:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html//rfc2119
>>
>> To be sure that I had not screwed up I downloaded
>> https://tools.ietf.org/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml
>> and got the same result when using the XML2RFC Web tool.
>>
>> Thanx,
>> Anders
> 
> 1) What do you have in the source code?
> 2) How do you generate the output? (xml2rfv version? offline/online?)
> 3) What exactly is in the output?

Hi Julian,

I used (downloaded) the most recent (valid?) IETF template https://tools.ietf.org/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml "as is" although I had to update the year to make it pass through https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/

The template contains a line <xref target="RFC2629" format="default">RFC&nbsp;2629</xref> which in the RfcMarkup version doesn't work as expected: the link is dead because it is incorrectly formatted.

BTW, in RfcMarkup version there is a direct link to the RFC (in RfcMarkup) in the reference section while in the HTML version it is just a name.

Best regards,
Anders

> 
> Best regards, Julian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
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From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:11:14 +0100
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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On 2020-11-04 10:02, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On 2020-11-04, at 07:39, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reference links are now generated like this: http://tools.ietf.org/html//rfc2119
> 
> That (double slash) is a bug in rfcmarkup, but why does the subject say “do not work any more”?

Well, the hyper-linked references are dead when you click on them in a browser.

This appears to be a regression bug.

Regards,
Anders

> 
> Grüße, Carsten
> 


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From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, xml2rfc@ietf.org
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Subject: [xml2rfc] Correction: Re: xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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Pardon me, the problem only occurs in the "Debug" mode using the Web tool.
Apparently the malformed links work anyway.

Thanx again,
Anders


On 2020-11-04 10:55, Anders Rundgren wrote:
> On 2020-11-04 09:51, Julian Reschke wrote:
>> Am 04.11.2020 um 07:39 schrieb Anders Rundgren:
>>> Reference links are now generated like this:
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html//rfc2119
>>>
>>> To be sure that I had not screwed up I downloaded
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml
>>> and got the same result when using the XML2RFC Web tool.
>>>
>>> Thanx,
>>> Anders
>>
>> 1) What do you have in the source code?
>> 2) How do you generate the output? (xml2rfv version? offline/online?)
>> 3) What exactly is in the output?
> 
> Hi Julian,
> 
> I used (downloaded) the most recent (valid?) IETF template https://tools.ietf.org/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml "as is" although I had to update the year to make it pass through https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/
> 
> The template contains a line <xref target="RFC2629" format="default">RFC&nbsp;2629</xref> which in the RfcMarkup version doesn't work as expected: the link is dead because it is incorrectly formatted.
> 
> BTW, in RfcMarkup version there is a direct link to the RFC (in RfcMarkup) in the reference section while in the HTML version it is just a name.
> 
> Best regards,
> Anders
> 
>>
>> Best regards, Julian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xml2rfc mailing list
>> xml2rfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>>
> 


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To: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>, XML2RFC Interest Group <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
References: <72B5135E-64DB-413D-B4A6-A83CA9FDFBC9@orandom.net> <59ece5f4-d44c-e67a-fb39-c66da9406b90@gmx.de> <EFB9270F-E72D-4CE7-AAE3-90A870B7DB1D@tzi.org> <C406BBF3-42F5-47C8-A5D7-8E4015803355@tzi.org> <f77dac55-9f25-f837-bb2c-93d0e8c67afe@gmail.com>
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work anymore
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From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
To: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>,
 XML2RFC Interest Group <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <792e72f7-77ad-581a-5022-b342e548efb9@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc/Web - rfcMarkup's reference links do not work
 anymore
References: <72B5135E-64DB-413D-B4A6-A83CA9FDFBC9@orandom.net>
 <59ece5f4-d44c-e67a-fb39-c66da9406b90@gmx.de>
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In-Reply-To: <f77dac55-9f25-f837-bb2c-93d0e8c67afe@gmail.com>

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Hi Anders,

Way too little information.  And it's not the first time I have to ask yo=
u
for more info from you.

Please indicate exactly where you observed this, an exact URL if applicab=
le,
or if running rfcmarkup on the command-line, indicate which switches you
used.

	Henrik

On 2020-11-04 07:39, Anders Rundgren wrote:
> Reference links are now generated like this: http://tools.ietf.org/html=
//rfc2119
>=20
> To be sure that I had not screwed up I downloaded https://tools.ietf.or=
g/tools/templates/draft-davies-template-bare-07.xml and got the same resu=
lt when using the XML2RFC Web tool.
>=20
> Thanx,
> Anders
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> xml2rfc mailing list
> xml2rfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
>=20


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From nobody Fri Nov  6 04:56:12 2020
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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v3.4.0
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v3.4.0, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (3.4.0) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Added handling for 'indent' attributes that have been set to the empty
    string.  Fixes issue #564.

  * Added some new unlisted switches to make some test cases easier to 
    maintain.

  * Changed the default handling for draft reference XIncludes to use 
    revision-agnostic bibxml URLs in v2-to-v3 conversions, and added a switch 
    to use explicit revisions instead if desired.

  * Tweaked doc.py and doc.xml to suppress mention of switches with 
    argparse.SUPPRESS help settings, for consistency between --help and --doc 
    output.

  * Changed the text output for <xref format='title'/> on request from the 
    RPC.  Fixes issue #563.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  05 Nov 2020 14:13:34 +0000

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
  'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/3.4.0'

Documentation for this release is built-in, and also available at:
  https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc-3.4.0.html

Regards,

	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


From nobody Wed Nov 18 02:25:00 2020
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Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v3.5.0
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Hi,

This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, 
v3.5.0, generated when running the mkrelease script.

Release notes:

xml2rfc (3.5.0) ietf; urgency=medium

  * Added some missing test cache entries.

  * Added missing line joiner settings for <artwork>, <artset> and 
    <sourcecode> within <blockquote>.  Fixes issue #569

  * Fixed a diff exclusion regex in the Makefile, and added a Makefile target
    to update manpage and docfiles, and a mkrelease step to update those files
    with the new release version as part of the release actions.

  * Changed the output text for <xref> with text content equal to the 
    reference tag to output both, rather than suppressing one.  Fixes issue 
    #571.

 -- Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>  18 Nov 2020 11:15:50 +0100

The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc',
and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.  If there are system-
installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies
manually.

The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
  'svn checkout http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/3.5.0'

Documentation for this release is built-in, and also available at:
  https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc-3.5.0.html

Regards,

	Henrik
	(via the mkrelease script)


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See: =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-06.html#name-acknowle=
dgments =
<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-06.html#name-acknowl=
edgments>

I thought at one point that it would be required that we do something =
special to insert unicode, but RFC7991 says that it=E2=80=99s just =
supported.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">See:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-06.html#name-=
acknowledgments" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-06.html#na=
me-acknowledgments</a><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I thought at one point that it would be required that we do =
something special to insert unicode, but RFC7991 says that it=E2=80=99s =
just supported.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Sat Nov 21 07:20:25 2020
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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] What's going on with embedded unicode in xml2rfc v3?
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On 2020-11-21, at 15:57, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
>=20
> See: =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-06.html#name-acknowle=
dgments
>=20
> I thought at one point that it would be required that we do something =
special to insert unicode, but RFC7991 says that it=E2=80=99s just =
supported.

If you need beyond-ASCII characters outside of artwork, use

<contact fullname=3D"=C2=BB=C3=BC=C3=B1=C3=AE=C3=A7=C3=B8=C3=B0=C3=A9=C2=AB=
"/>

or

{{{=C2=BB=C3=BC=C3=B1=C3=AE=C3=A7=C3=B8=C3=B0=C3=A9=C2=AB}}}

in kramdown-rfc.

(Yes, that is abuse of the semantic markup, but it seems to be all we =
have right now.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten


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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] What's going on with embedded unicode in xml2rfc v3?
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On Nov 21, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
> <contact fullname=3D"=C2=BB=C3=BC=C3=B1=C3=AE=C3=A7=C3=B8=C3=B0=C3=A9=C2=
=AB=E2=80=9D/>

That did it. Thanks!


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">On =
Nov 21, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Carsten Bormann &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:cabo@tzi.org" class=3D"">cabo@tzi.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><meta =
charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&lt;contact fullname=3D"=C2=BB=C3=BC=C3=B1=C3=AE=C3=A7=C3=B8=C3=
=B0=C3=A9=C2=AB=E2=80=9D/&gt;</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">That did it. Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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