Subject: Re: [6lowpan] [saag] Follow up on IEEE 802.15 Key Management

From: Alper Yegin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:36:27 +0300

Hi Bob,

As you know, Zigbee Alliance has already adopted EAP/PANA for network access authentication and key agreement for Smart Energy Profile 2.0.

Is the problem you are seeking to solve the same problem, or a different one?

Thanks.

Alper

On Sep 23, 2011, at 8:34 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

> This week the PAR for KMP passed within 802.15:
> 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/11/15-11-0613-03-0kmp-key-management-protocol-par.doc
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/11/15-11-0665-03-0kmp-kmp-5c-draft.doc
> 
> In the PAR we are requesting the creation of a Recommended Practice that will be identified as 802.15.8.
> 
> Next step is to get IEEE 802 approval which will be at the Atlanta meeting week prior to IETF.
> 
> For all the current documents for the KMPIG:
> 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/documents?is_group=0kmp
> 
> In particular
> 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/11/15-11-0650-00-0kmp-kmp-for-802-15.ppt
> 
> GIves the latest thoughts on how the shim will work and how the document will be structured.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag

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From: "Benjamin A. Rolfe" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:19:34 -0700

There is an obvious difference in scope:  The scope of the ZigBee SEP 
profile is specifically Demand
Response and Load Management applications. ZigBee uses IEEE 
P802.15.4-2003.  The scope of the referenced PAR includes all current 
members of the 802.15 family of standards, which includes 5 distinct MAC 
and PHY standards (soon to be 6).

I'm sure Bob can elaborate further.

Hope that helps.

Regards

-Ben

> 6lowpan mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowpan
>

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From: Alper Yegin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:40:27 +0300

Thank you.

I think it'd be useful for IETF community to understand what those 5/6 distinct standards, and if the KMP being sought would be a generic solution or specific to each one of them. PANA being used for one of them already, I wonder whether it applies to the others or not. Any ideas on that?

On Sep 29, 2011, at 4:19 AM, Benjamin A. Rolfe wrote:

> There is an obvious difference in scope:  The scope of the ZigBee SEP profile is specifically Demand
> Response and Load Management applications. ZigBee uses IEEE P802.15.4-2003.  The scope of the referenced PAR includes all current members of the 802.15 family of standards, which includes 5 distinct MAC and PHY standards (soon to be 6).
>

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From: "Benjamin A. Rolfe" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:17:51 -0700

I can summarize the 802.15 family; Bob will have to speak specifically 
to the KMP RP and which it will apply to.  Each consists of a distinct 
MAC sub-layer specification and one or more PHY specifications (usually 
more).

802.15.1 - you will probably know it as Bluetooth (802.15.1 where the 
"personal" comes from in WPAN); short range, moderate data rate, small 
networks in both radio SOI and number of devices. Current revision 2005.

802.15.3 - high rate WPAN. The current standard includes a common MAC 
and multiple PHY layers, including a 2.4GHz PHY operating up to 55Mbps, 
and a very high rate (up to 5Gbps) PHYs operating in the 60 GHz (mmWave) 
band.  Also small ROI and modest number of devices.  The very high rate 
is being used in consumer applications such as video transport.   
Initial standard 2003 with amendment 3b published 2005 and amendment 3c 
published 2009.

802.15.4 - LR-WPAN, first publication in 2003 with a simple MAC and 2 
PHYs, one 2.4GHz (OQPSK) and one for the 868 MHz and 915 MHz (BPSK) 
bands. This is the version called out in ZigBee.  Since 2003 there has 
been a major revision that made significant changes to the MAC and two 
new PHYs operating in the 868 and 915 bands: OQPSK and ASK.  Amendment 
4a adds two more PHYs, a UWB PHY in 3 to 10 GHz band, and a CSS PHY in 
2.4GHz; Amendment 4c adds PHYs for operating in the 780MHz band in 
China; Amendment 4d adds a GFSK PHY operating in the 950MHz band in 
Japan. The current revision is P802.15.4-2011 which includes all of the 
above amendments on the 2006 revision.  Currently there are 3 new 
amendments nearing completion:  Task Group (TG) 4e is adding new 
features to the MAC; TG4g is adding three new PHYs and a plethora of 
bands around the world, and is already being used for smart grid and M2M 
applications; TG4f adds 2 new PHYs for RFID applications.   Additional 
TGs are underway defining even more new PHYs expanding the usefulness of 
15.4 even further.  Quite a bit has happened since 2003!

802.15.6 - Body Area Networks (or as I like to call it, very personal 
area networks), with yet another distinct MAC (including security). 
Currently there are 3 PHYs in the draft.   Balloting in progress.

802.15.7 - Visible Light Communications.   Approved in 2011.

-B

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From: Robert Cragie <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:32:57 +0100

Actually, the ZigBee Alliance has adopted PANA/EAP for the ZigBee IP 
stack, which is a specification of an IPv6 stack using 6lowpan over 
802.15.4-2006 (not 2003) based on IETF standards. This is independent 
from the SEP 2.0 application profile, which incidentally uses TLS.

At the time of development, there was no EAP transport specified for any 
802.15 standard. The most expedient route for us at the time was to use 
PANA (RFC 5191), which uses UDP datagrams which are accommodated easily 
in 6lowpan without requiring any changes. With addition of the PANA 
relay (RFC 6345), it provides an effective EAP transport, especially 
where the authentication server is not in direct contact with the 
joining node. Any EAP transport for 802.15 networks also needs to take 
this into consideration given the topologies formed in 802.15 networks 
(well, at least 802.15.4)

Robert

On 29/09/2011 2:19 AM, Benjamin A. Rolfe wrote:
> members of the 802.15 family of standards, which includes 5 distinct 
> MAC and PHY standards (soon to be 6).
>
>> As you know, Zigbee Alliance has already adopted EAP/PANA for network 
>> access authentication and key agreement for Smart Energy Profile 2.0.
>>