Subject: [99attendees] ietf-hotel experience

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:57:31 +0200

just in case it is helpful to others:

this has happened a number of times.  the laptop and i get to our room,
associate with the ietf-hotel ssid wireless, and things work ok for a
minute or three before they go to absolute hell.  i turn my wifi (macos)
off and on again, and things are fine for the rest of the night.

the conjecture is my turning wifi off and on again gets me a better
wireless access point.

randy

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From: Bryan Call <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:50:10 +0200

I had a lot of problems using the hotel wifi (lots of packet loss).  I switched over to using the wired connection in my room and using my own wifi router.

-Bryan

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 8:57 AM, Randy Bush <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 99attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/99attendees

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From: Sarah B <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:56:08 -0700

I find it depends where you're at in the hotel. The last 2 times we were here, I had to bring an airport express with me, because the wifi network sucked my will to live. This time, I'm finding I don't need it, and wifi is fine (I too have a mac). As with those last 2 times, folks in different parts of the hotel had different experiences. It would seem that this time might be no different. 

/S

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 12:50 AM, Bryan Call <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:58:07 +0200

> I find it depends where you're at in the hotel. The last 2 times we
> were here, I had to bring an airport express with me, because the wifi
> network sucked my will to live. This time, I'm finding I don't need
> it, and wifi is fine (I too have a mac). As with those last 2 times,
> folks in different parts of the hotel had different experiences. It
> would seem that this time might be no different.

RF design is hard

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:56:16 +0200

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:58:07AM +0200,
 Randy Bush <[email-masked]> wrote 

> RF design is hard

Wifi at the Mucha hotel (two blocks from the Hilton) is very fine :-)

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:00:24 +0200

> Wifi at the Mucha hotel (two blocks from the Hilton) is very fine :-)

tell me how it holds up to 900 guests.

while i have no experience with the mucha hotel, i recommend the mucha
museum.

randy

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From: Andrew McGregor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:21:27 +1000

Protocol design is harder; most wifi problems are protocol issues in the
MAC layer not RF issues. Especially hard is security.

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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:29:11 +0200

​Protocol design is not that hard. All you have to do is to recognize that
a Wireless protocol such as WiFi cannot use the same connection
configuration mechanism as a wired protocol such as Ethernet.

Implicit in act of connecting to an ethernet network is authentication of
the network source and agreement to terms of service (by physical
presence). Failure to recognize the need to make explicit is the handbasket
in which the WiFi world has chosen to ride us into hell.
​

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From: Max Pala <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:47:10 +0000

Hi All,

Although yesterday I was able to use the network for basic stuff.. today nothing works... 

Most of the times the DHCP fails... then there are DNS resolution issues, and, again, lots and lots of packet loss...

I can not believe how badly configured the network is.. I have to use my 2G free data just to write this email... should we just remove the "ietf" from the "ietf-hotel" SSID ? It really does not look good...

Cheers,
Max

---

Cheers,
Max
> On Jul 17, 2017, at 9:50 AM, Bryan Call <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

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From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:21:41 +0200

For me, I’ve had good connectivity to ietf-hotel most of the time in the
room (6th floor) but in the evenings it works barely, if at all. Mac or not
doesn’t matter much, problem is there most of the time but sometimes
you can get a packet through.

I assumed too many people/devices attempting to use it. Same
experience for hhonours, but it is probably the same infrastructure
anyway.

This morning it works, but gave me no IPv6 for 10 minutes. Haven’t
done much debugging why, but could be a side-effect of marginal
L2 connectivity of course.

Jari

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:50:10 +0200

> Most of the times the DHCP fails... then there are DNS resolution
> issues, and, again, lots and lots of packet loss...

and the hack i suggested did not help?

>>> the conjecture is my turning wifi off and on again gets me a better

bummer.  how is the non-hotel-ssid-of-your-choice when not in your room?

and, when you cut a ticket (see network instructions) please describe
your client just in case there are correlations.

the hotel wireless infrastructure is 'interesting.'  the noc is doing
what it can within the connstraints of the hotel infrastructure.

randy

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From: Max Pala <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:08:56 +0000

Hi Randy,

Responses inline...

> and the hack i suggested did not help?

Nope. I have 3 devices with me and none of them was able to get on the network reliably.

> bummer.  how is the non-hotel-ssid-of-your-choice when not in your room?

Not sure what you mean here.. I only get the two "ietf-hotel" and "honors" networks.

> your client just in case there are correlations.

I will.. but I do not think it is a client-specific issue as I tried with different devices

> what it can within the connstraints of the hotel infrastructure.

I totally understand that getting the network of the hotel up to standards is a very challenging task. But this is not the first time the meeting is held here, right? 

I wonder if this is related to IETF budget allocation (e.g. Not enough funds for the networking infrastructure update)... ???

I hope they will be able to fix this ... people need to work after the sessions end.. :-) If not even the IETF noc can not fix the issues.. maybe this hotel should not be on the IETF radar for our meetings in the future...???

Cheers,
Max

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From: Igor Bryskin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:09:01 +0000

Good morning,

I am looking for a ticket to the social. Please, contact me if you have one extra.

Thanks,
Igor

From:Randy Bush
To:Max Pala,
Cc:[email-masked],
Date:2017-07-18 02:50:53
Subject:Re: [99attendees] ietf-hotel experience

randy

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From: joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:21:06 +0200

> I am looking for a ticket to the social. Please, contact me if you have

Can you please not break threading by selecting an existing thread an
replying to it in order send a new message?

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:29:32 +0200

> Nope. I have 3 devices with me and none of them was able to get on the

so it goes (vonnegut)

> Not sure what you mean here.. I only get the two "ietf-hotel" and

*when not in room*  i.e. when in meetings on the ietf-not-hotel of your
choice

> I totally understand that getting the network of the hotel up to
> standards is a very challenging task. But this is not the first time
> the meeting is held here, right?

first, the hotel room infrastructure (from mdf to your room) is not
under ietf control.  the hilton 'improved' the in-room wireless
infrastructure since our last visit, installing new wireless gear and a
*lot* of access points.  wireless geeks will tell you that more access
points and turning up the power are not recipes for success.

> I wonder if this is related to IETF budget allocation (e.g. Not enough
> funds for the networking infrastructure update)... ???

uh, the ietf may not see it as in its purview to pay for and direct
hiltons on their infrastructure.

> I hope they will be able to fix this ... people need to work after the
> sessions end.. :-) If not even the IETF noc can not fix the
> issues.. maybe this hotel should not be on the IETF radar for our
> meetings in the future...???

ietf hotels are negotiated years in advance and often change their
infrastructure in the interim.  and the ietf attendee load is
sufficiently abnormal that site visits can not test how the hotel's
infrastructure will hold up to 900 attendees all streaming game of
thrones at the same time.

randy

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From: Massimiliano Pala <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:47:56 +0200

Hi Randy,

thanks for all the tips. Inline:

On 7/18/17 9:29 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
> [...]
Usually "ietf" or "ietf-nat64". However, I use one of my devices *only* 
in the room and still it won't get on the network (sorry I missed the 
*not* from your e-mail.. :D I am not very productive in the morning 
before my coffee... especially the 2nd day in Europe)
> thrones at the same time.
I definitely understand all these aspects.. and I know people works very 
hard and I do appreciate the amazing work and effort that people put 
into supporting IETF - which I love and that is the reason I always want 
to contribute to IETF activities :D This said, however, in the end, what 
counts is the final result and, so far, compared to many other meetings, 
the in-room networking is one of the worst... :D

Last thing, */I tried to send an e-mail to [email-masked] but 
I the message was rejected (both from Gmail and from office365)/* [*] 
... so, so far, I was not able to even report the issue :-( I will try 
from another domain... hopefully that will go through...

Cheers,
Max

P.S.: I just want to re-iterate my appreciation for all the work done by 
the many people who manage to put together such wonderful meetings for 
so many years :D

[*] = From the GMAIL account: Your message couldn't be delivered to 
[email-masked]* because the remote server is misconfigured. 
See technical details below for more information. Same error from office365.

-- 
Best Regards,
Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D.
CableLabs
Principal Architect
Security Services, R&D

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:51:08 +0200

> Last thing, */I tried to send an e-mail to [email-masked]
> but I the message was rejected (both from Gmail and from office365)/*
> [*] ... so, so far, I was not able to even report the issue :-( I will
> try from another domain... hopefully that will go through...

please go to help desk in terminal room or come to noc in LL
vienna/madrid

randy

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From: Massimiliano Pala <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:16:18 +0200

Hi Randy, all,

> try from another domain... hopefully that will go through...
I just wanted to let everybody know that the error was actually due to 
my mis-typing of the domain - I was able to submit the ticket via the 
correct address now.

Thanks for the help!

Cheers,
Max

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From: Ralf Weber <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:12:59 +0200

Moin!

> you can get a packet through.
Also on the 6th floor with similar problems and switched to hot spotting 
with
my mobile phone. What I found odd is that the wired connection which is 
available
does not work in my room. I get and address (RF1918 - 192.168.0.0/24) 
and default
route, but can't go beyond this. Is this supposed to work or not? Do 
others
have experience with wired connections?

So long
-Ralf
---
Ralf Weber

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From: Jim Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:18:17 +0200

Ralf,
	This definitely is a misconfiguration in the hotel’s wired guest room network. Please report this with your room number (and any other issues) to [email-masked] and we’d be happy to work with the hotel staff to debug and resolve this issue.

	- Jim

> On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Ralf Weber <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Moin!
> 
> Also on the 6th floor with similar problems and switched to hot spotting with
> my mobile phone. What I found odd is that the wired connection which is available
> does not work in my room. I get and address (RF1918 - 192.168.0.0/24) and default
> route, but can't go beyond this. Is this supposed to work or not? Do others

---

From: Jared Mauch <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:28:00 +0200

The problem I'm having is when sitting in the M level eating area my SNR only gives me 10dB as the noise floor is -74. Not much can be done about that. 

Jared Mauch

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:29:03 +0200

> The problem I'm having is when sitting in the M level eating area my
> SNR only gives me 10dB as the noise floor is -74. Not much can be done
> about that.

you could eat :)

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From: Jared Mauch <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:56:08 -0400

> > SNR only gives me 10dB as the noise floor is -74. Not much can be done

Have you noticed my changed shape?  This is a given.

-- 
Jared Mauch  | pgp key available via finger from [email-masked]
clue++;      | http://puck.nether.net/~jared/  My statements are only mine.

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From: Janvier NGNOULAYE <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:53:09 +0100

+1 Jim,
Found the solution with the hotel staff is fine.
Ngnoulaye Janvier

Le 18 juil. 2017 10:18, "Jim Martin" <[email-masked]> a écrit :

> Ralf,
>         This definitely is a misconfiguration in the hotel’s wired guest
> room network. Please report this with your room number (and any other
> issues) to [email-masked] and we’d be happy to work with the
> hotel staff to debug and resolve this issue.
>
>         - Jim
>