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Thread-Topic: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the January 5, 2012 IESG Teleconference 
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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: <aaa-doctors@ietf.org>, <mib-doctors@ietf.org>, "YANG Doctors" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>, <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "IETF DNS Directorate" <dns-dir@ietf.org>
Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] FW: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the January 5, 2012 IESG Teleconference
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From dromasca@avaya.com  Tue Jan 10 12:03:25 2012
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Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:03:20 +0100
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Thread-Topic: [radext] RFC 6158 Reviews:  how does it work in practice?
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References: <BLU152-W6235FB1671EB3578461C7893990@phx.gbl><BLU152-W620A82A68D4AC6C485B60E93990@phx.gbl> <4F0C96D1.4090609@deployingradius.com>
From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: "Alan DeKok" <aland@deployingradius.com>, "Bernard Aboba" <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>
Cc: aaa-doctors@ietf.org, radext@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [AAA-DOCTORS] [radext] RFC 6158 Reviews: how does it work in practice?
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Yes.=20

The AAA-Doctors team secretary should scan all documents that enter IETF =
Last Call and identify those who have any trace of =
RADIUS/Diameter/other_AAA content, and then dispatch them to the =
AAA-Doctors team for review according to some algorithm of his own.=20

OPS-DIR use this method and it works pretty well for them.=20

It's still best-effort, as all volunteer work we do in the IETF.=20

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: radext-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Alan DeKok
Sent: Tue 1/10/2012 9:51 PM
To: Bernard Aboba
Cc: radext@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [radext] RFC 6158 Reviews:  how does it work in practice?
=20
Bernard Aboba wrote:
> [BA]  How do we ensure that these reviews are actually carried out?

  cron?

$ rsync -avz --delete ftp.rfc-editor.org::internet-drafts .

$ perl -ne 'next if !/^draft-ietf-/;next if /^draft-ietf-radext/;next if
/^draft-ietf-dime/;chop;split;next if ($_[2] eq "RFC");next if ($_[2] eq
"Expired");next if ! -f "$_[0].txt";print $_[0],".txt\n";' < all_id.txt
> radius.txt

$ for x in `cat radius.txt`; do \
	    egrep -l RADIUS $x >> radext-review.txt; \
  done

  That gives us a list (below).  We could post the list once a month to
radext and aaa-doctors.  That would at least ensure the documents get
noted in IESG review, or IETF last call.

draft-ietf-emu-eaptunnel-req-09.txt
draft-ietf-mip4-generic-notification-message-16.txt
draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc-06.txt
draft-ietf-mip6-hiopt-17.txt
draft-ietf-netconf-access-control-07.txt
draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt
draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-radius-ext-07.txt
draft-ietf-abfab-aaa-saml-02.txt
draft-ietf-abfab-arch-00.txt
draft-ietf-abfab-gss-eap-04.txt
draft-ietf-abfab-gss-eap-naming-01.txt
draft-ietf-emu-chbind-12.txt
draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-01.txt
draft-ietf-geopriv-held-measurements-04.txt
draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis-06.txt
draft-ietf-karp-ops-model-01.txt
draft-ietf-nea-pt-tls-01.txt
draft-ietf-opsawg-management-stds-03.txt
draft-ietf-precis-framework-01.txt
draft-ietf-softwire-6rd-radius-attrib-04.txt
draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-deployment-01.txt
draft-ietf-storm-iscsi-cons-04.txt

  Alan DeKok.
_______________________________________________
radext mailing list
radext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/radext


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<TITLE>RE: [radext] RFC 6158 Reviews:  how does it work in =
practice?</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yes.<BR>
<BR>
The AAA-Doctors team secretary should scan all documents that enter IETF =
Last Call and identify those who have any trace of =
RADIUS/Diameter/other_AAA content, and then dispatch them to the =
AAA-Doctors team for review according to some algorithm of his own.<BR>
<BR>
OPS-DIR use this method and it works pretty well for them.<BR>
<BR>
It's still best-effort, as all volunteer work we do in the IETF.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: radext-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Alan DeKok<BR>
Sent: Tue 1/10/2012 9:51 PM<BR>
To: Bernard Aboba<BR>
Cc: radext@ietf.org<BR>
Subject: Re: [radext] RFC 6158 Reviews:&nbsp; how does it work in =
practice?<BR>
<BR>
Bernard Aboba wrote:<BR>
&gt; [BA]&nbsp; How do we ensure that these reviews are actually carried =
out?<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; cron?<BR>
<BR>
$ rsync -avz --delete ftp.rfc-editor.org::internet-drafts .<BR>
<BR>
$ perl -ne 'next if !/^draft-ietf-/;next if /^draft-ietf-radext/;next =
if<BR>
/^draft-ietf-dime/;chop;split;next if ($_[2] eq &quot;RFC&quot;);next if =
($_[2] eq<BR>
&quot;Expired&quot;);next if ! -f &quot;$_[0].txt&quot;;print =
$_[0],&quot;.txt\n&quot;;' &lt; all_id.txt<BR>
&gt; radius.txt<BR>
<BR>
$ for x in `cat radius.txt`; do \<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; egrep -l =
RADIUS $x &gt;&gt; radext-review.txt; \<BR>
&nbsp; done<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; That gives us a list (below).&nbsp; We could post the list once a =
month to<BR>
radext and aaa-doctors.&nbsp; That would at least ensure the documents =
get<BR>
noted in IESG review, or IETF last call.<BR>
<BR>
draft-ietf-emu-eaptunnel-req-09.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-mip4-generic-notification-message-16.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-integrated-dhc-06.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-mip6-hiopt-17.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-netconf-access-control-07.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-radius-ext-07.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-abfab-aaa-saml-02.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-abfab-arch-00.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-abfab-gss-eap-04.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-abfab-gss-eap-naming-01.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-emu-chbind-12.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-01.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-geopriv-held-measurements-04.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-hokey-rfc5296bis-06.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-karp-ops-model-01.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-nea-pt-tls-01.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-opsawg-management-stds-03.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-precis-framework-01.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-softwire-6rd-radius-attrib-04.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-deployment-01.txt<BR>
draft-ietf-storm-iscsi-cons-04.txt<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; Alan DeKok.<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
radext mailing list<BR>
radext@ietf.org<BR>
<A =
HREF=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/radext">https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/radext</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
</P>

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From aland@deployingradius.com  Tue Jan 10 13:17:19 2012
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Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] RADIUS Documents in Last Call for Tue Jan 10 22:16:52 CET 2012
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From: Alan DeKok <aland@freeradius.org>

  This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-drafts
which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  Drafts
from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.

--
draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06/

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Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:19:07 +0100
From: Alan T DeKok <aland@freeradius.org>
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Subject: Re: [AAA-DOCTORS] RADIUS Documents in Last Call for Tue Jan 10 22:16:52 CET 2012
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  Well, that seemed to work.  I'll poke it to get the correct URL, and
have cron send an email once a week.

aland@freeradius.org wrote:
> From: Alan DeKok <aland@freeradius.org>
> 
>   This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-drafts
> which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  Drafts
> from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.
> 
> --
> draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06/
> _______________________________________________
> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors
> 
> 


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  For reference, the Makefile is attached.

  Alan DeKok.


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all: mail.txt

.PHONY: sync
sync:
	@rsync -q -avz --delete ftp.rfc-editor.org::internet-drafts internet-drafts/

internet-drafts/all_id.txt: sync

last-call.txt: internet-drafts/all_id.txt
	@perl -ne 'next if !/^draft-ietf-/;next if /^draft-ietf-radext/;next if /^draft-ietf-dime/;next unless /In Last Call/;chop;split;next if ! -f "internet-drafts/$$_[0].txt";print "internet-drafts/",$$_[0],".txt\n";' < $< > $@

radius.txt: last-call.txt
	@grep -l RADIUS `cat $<` | sed 's,internet-drafts/,,' > $@

mail.txt: top.txt radius.txt 
	@cp top.txt $@
	@cat radius.txt | while read file; do \
		y=`echo $$file | sed 's/-..\.txt//'`; \
		echo "$$file  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/$$y/" >> $@; \
	 done

.PHONY: send
send:
	@mail -aFrom:aland@freeradius.org -s "RADIUS Documents in Last Call for `date`" aaa-doctors@ietf.org < mail.txt


--------------010605050100070000070100--

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Thread-Topic: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the January 19, 2012 IESG Teleconference 
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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: <aaa-doctors@ietf.org>, <mib-doctors@ietf.org>, "YANG Doctors" <yang-doctors@ietf.org>, <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "IETF DNS Directorate" <dns-dir@ietf.org>
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  This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-drafts
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--
draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6/

From glenzorn@gmail.com  Sat Jan 14 20:44:09 2012
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On 1/15/2012 7:22 AM, aland@freeradius.org wrote:

>   This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-drafts
> which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  Drafts
> from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.
> 
> --
> draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6/

I've reviewed (& commented upon) this draft 3 or 4 times already, to
little effect; I'll let somebody else give it a shot...

> _______________________________________________
> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors


From bernard_aboba@hotmail.com  Sat Jan 14 20:53:12 2012
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Can you send a link to your last review?



On Jan 14, 2012, at 20:44, "Glen Zorn" <glenzorn@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/15/2012 7:22 AM, aland@freeradius.org wrote:
>=20
>>  This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-dr=
afts
>> which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  Draft=
s
>> from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.
>>=20
>> --
>> draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6/
>=20
> I've reviewed (& commented upon) this draft 3 or 4 times already, to
> little effect; I'll let somebody else give it a shot...
>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
>> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors

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Subject: Re: [AAA-DOCTORS] RADIUS Documents in Last Call for Sun Jan 15 01:22:01 CET 2012
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On 1/15/2012 11:54 AM, Bernard Aboba wrote:

> Can you send a link to your last review?

Nope, Outlook ate all my email archives awhile back...

> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 14, 2012, at 20:44, "Glen Zorn" <glenzorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/15/2012 7:22 AM, aland@freeradius.org wrote:
>>
>>>  This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-drafts
>>> which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  Drafts
>>> from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.
>>>
>>> --
>>> draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6/
>>
>> I've reviewed (& commented upon) this draft 3 or 4 times already, to
>> little effect; I'll let somebody else give it a shot...
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
>>> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
>> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors


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To: Glen Zorn <glenzorn@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [AAA-DOCTORS] RADIUS Documents in Last Call for Sun Jan 15 01:22:01 CET 2012
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Glen,

I don't recall seeing any recently.. I saw Bernerd's. Where did you send =
them?

- Jouni


On Jan 15, 2012, at 6:44 AM, Glen Zorn wrote:

> On 1/15/2012 7:22 AM, aland@freeradius.org wrote:
>=20
>>  This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF =
internet-drafts
>> which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  =
Drafts
>> from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.
>>=20
>> --
>> draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  =
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6/
>=20
> I've reviewed (& commented upon) this draft 3 or 4 times already, to
> little effect; I'll let somebody else give it a shot...
>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
>> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
> AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors


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Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Review of draft-ietf-radext-radsec
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This is a review of "TLS Encryption for RADIUS" draft-ietf-radext-radsec.=20

Overall=2C this draft was a pleasant to read=2C and it is clear that a lot =
of thought as well as implementation experience has gone into it.=20

Kudos to the authors.=20

General Issues

There is a considerable amount of text relating to dynamic discovery in thi=
s document=2C yet
there is only an informational reference to it.=20

Since inserting a normative reference to dynamic discovery could delay the =
publication of
this document unnecessarily=2C my recommendation is to consolidate some of =
the dynamic
discovery material into a single section in which you can discuss the impli=
cations=2C while
clearly indicating the status of the dynamic discovery work (e.g. still und=
er development=2C optional to
implement along with RADSEC=2C etc.).=20

For example=2C you might consider consolidating the following text from Sec=
tions 3.1 and 6=20
and placing it prior to the current Section 3.1:

Section 3.X:  Implications of Dynamic Peer Discovery


   One mechanism to discover RADIUS over TLS peers dynamically via DNS=20

   is specified in [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery].  While this mechani=
sm

   is still under development and therefore is not a normative dependency o=
f

   RADIUS/TLS=2C the use of dynamic discovery has potential future implicat=
ions that are

   important to understand.=20

   If dynamic peer discovery as per
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery] is used=2C peer authentication
   alone is not sufficient=3B the peer must also be authorised to perform
   user authentications.  In these cases=2C the trust fabric cannot depend
   on peer authentication methods like DNSSEC to identify RADIUS/TLS
   nodes.  The nodes also need to be properly authorised.  Typically=2C
   this can be achieved by adding appropriate authorisation fields into
   a X.509 certificate.  Such fields include SRV authority [RFC4985]=2C
   subjectAltNames=2C or a defined list of certificate fingerprints.
   Operators of a RADIUS/TLS infrastructure should define their own
   authorisation trust model and apply this model to the certificates.
   The checks enumerated in Section 2.3 provide sufficient flexibility
   for the implementation of authorisation trust models.

[BA] I think you need to be more prescriptive here.  Are there specific
fields that a RADSEC TLS certificate should contain?  Having individual
implementations/deployments defining their own authorization schemes seems
like a bad idea. =20

   In the case of dynamic peer discovery as per
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C a RADIUS/TLS node needs to be
   able to accept connections from a large=2C not previously known=2C group
   of hosts=2C possibly the whole internet.  In this case=2C the server's
   RADIUS/TLS port can not be protected from unauthorised connection
   attempts with measures on the network layer=2C i.e. access lists and
   firewalls.  This opens more attack vectors for Distributed Denial of
   Service attacks=2C just like any other service that is supposed to
   serve arbitrary clients (like for example web servers).

   In the case of dynamic peer discovery as per
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C X.509 certificates are the only
   proof of authorisation for a connecting RADIUS/TLS nodes.  Special
   care needs to be taken that certificates get verified properly
   according to the chosen trust model (particularly: consulting CRLs=2C
   checking critical extensions=2C checking subjectAltNames etc.) to
   prevent unauthorised connections.

Other comments

Section 1

   One mechanism to discover RADIUS over TLS peers with DNS is specified in
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery].

[BA] Recommend moving this to a section devoted to dynamic discovery.=20

Section 2.1

   See
   section Section 3.3 (4) and (5) for considerations regarding
   separation of authentication=2C accounting and dynauth traffic.

[BA] Recommend changing to:

   "See Section 3.3 for considerations regarding separation of
    authentication=2C accounting and dynamic authorisation traffic."

Section 2.3

   4.  start exchanging RADIUS datagrams.  Note Section 3.3 (1) ).  The
       shared secret to compute the (obsolete) MD5 integrity checks and
       attribute encryption MUST be "radsec" (see Section 3.3 (2) ).

Section 3.1

   (3) If dynamic peer discovery as per
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery] is used=2C peer authentication
   alone is not sufficient=3B the peer must also be authorised to perform
   user authentications.  In these cases=2C the trust fabric cannot depend
   on peer authentication methods like DNSSEC to identify RADIUS/TLS
   nodes.  The nodes also need to be properly authorised.  Typically=2C
   this can be achieved by adding appropriate authorisation fields into
   a X.509 certificate.  Such fields include SRV authority [RFC4985]=2C
   subjectAltNames=2C or a defined list of certificate fingerprints.
   Operators of a RADIUS/TLS infrastructure should define their own
   authorisation trust model and apply this model to the certificates.
   The checks enumerated in Section 2.3 provide sufficient flexibility
   for the implementation of authorisation trust models.

As noted above=2C I'd suggest removing this material from Section 3.1 and=20
consolidating it with other dynamic-discovery material. =20

Section 3.3

   Note well: it is not required for an implementation
   to actually process these packet types.  It is sufficient that upon
   receiving such a packet=2C an unconditional NAK is sent back to
   indicate that the action is not supported.

[BA] What Error-Cause attribute value should be included within the NAK to =
make it
clear that the action is not supported?  Error 406 "Unsupported Extension"?
That is what RFC 5176 Section 3.5 seems to indicate.=20

   There
   is no RADIUS datagram to signal an Accounting NAK.  Clients may be
   misconfigured to send Accounting packets to a RADIUS/TLS server which
   does not wish to process their Accounting packet.  The server will
   need to silently drop the packet.  The client will need to deduce
   from the absence of replies that it is misconfigured=3B no negative
   ICMP response will reveal this.

[BA] This seems like a bad idea.  How about requiring implementations not
supporting Accounting to respond with an Accounting-Response containing
Error-Cause attribute value 406?  Implementations receiving an Accounting-R=
esponse
with this Error-Cause can be required to treat this like an ICMP response.=
=20

Section 4

   As a consequence=2C the selection of transports to communicate from a
   client to a server is a manual administrative action.  An automatic
   fallback to RADIUS/UDP is NOT RECOMMENDED=2C as it may lead to down-
   bidding attacks on the peer communication.

[BA] If a fixed shared secret "radsec" is used alongside fallback to RADIUS=
/UDP=2C
that seems more like a MUST NOT!!

Section 6

   In the case of dynamic peer discovery as per
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C a RADIUS/TLS node needs to be
   able to accept connections from a large=2C not previously known=2C group
   of hosts=2C possibly the whole internet.  In this case=2C the server's
   RADIUS/TLS port can not be protected from unauthorised connection
   attempts with measures on the network layer=2C i.e. access lists and
   firewalls.  This opens more attack vectors for Distributed Denial of
   Service attacks=2C just like any other service that is supposed to
   serve arbitrary clients (like for example web servers).

   In the case of dynamic peer discovery as per
   [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C X.509 certificates are the only
   proof of authorisation for a connecting RADIUS/TLS nodes.  Special
   care needs to be taken that certificates get verified properly
   according to the chosen trust model (particularly: consulting CRLs=2C
   checking critical extensions=2C checking subjectAltNames etc.) to
   prevent unauthorised connections.


[BA] I'd recommend collecting this and other dynamic-discovery related mate=
rial
into a separate section prior to 3.1.=20

Appendix C. Assessment of Crypto-Agility Requirements


   The RADIUS Crypto-Agility Requirements (link to RFC once issued here)
   defines numerous classification criteria for protocols that strive to
   enhance the security of RADIUS.  It contains mandatory (M) and
   recommended (R) criteria which crypto-agile protocols have to
   fulfill.  The authors believe that the following assessment about the
   crypto-agility properties of RADIUS/TLS are true.

[BA] The Crypto-Agility RFC is now published so you should reference that. =
		 	   		   		 	   		  =

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{font-size:10pt=3Bfont-family:Tah</style>This is a review of "TLS Encryptio=
n for RADIUS" draft-ietf-radext-radsec. <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>Overall=2C=
 this draft was a pleasant to read=2C and it is clear that a lot of thought=
 as well as implementation experience has gone into it. <br><br>Kudos to th=
e authors. <span class=3D"h1"></span><br><br>General Issues<br><br>There is=
 a considerable amount of text relating to dynamic discovery in this docume=
nt=2C yet<br>there is only an informational reference to it. <br><br>Since =
inserting a normative reference to dynamic discovery could delay the public=
ation of<br>this document unnecessarily=2C my recommendation is to consolid=
ate some of the dynamic<br>discovery material into a single section in whic=
h you can discuss the implications=2C while<br>clearly indicating the statu=
s of the dynamic discovery work (e.g. still under development=2C optional t=
o<br>implement along with RADSEC=2C etc.). <br><br>For example=2C you might=
 consider consolidating the following text from Sections 3.1 and 6 <br>and =
placing it prior to the current Section 3.1:<br><br>Section 3.X:&nbsp=3B Im=
plications of Dynamic Peer Discovery<br><br>
&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B One mechanism to discover RADIUS over TLS peers dynamicall=
y via DNS <br>
&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B is specified in [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery].&nbsp=
=3B While this mechanism<br>
&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B is still under development and therefore is not a normativ=
e dependency of<br>
&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B RADIUS/TLS=2C the use of dynamic discovery has potential f=
uture implications that are<br>
&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B important to understand. <br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B If dynam=
ic peer discovery as per<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-disco=
very] is used=2C peer authentication<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B alone is not suffi=
cient=3B the peer must also be authorised to perform<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B us=
er authentications.&nbsp=3B In these cases=2C the trust fabric cannot depen=
d<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B on peer authentication methods like DNSSEC to identif=
y RADIUS/TLS<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B nodes.&nbsp=3B The nodes also need to be p=
roperly authorised.&nbsp=3B Typically=2C<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B this can be ac=
hieved by adding appropriate authorisation fields into<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B =
a X.509 certificate.&nbsp=3B Such fields include SRV authority [RFC4985]=2C=
<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B subjectAltNames=2C or a defined list of certificate fi=
ngerprints.<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B Operators of a RADIUS/TLS infrastructure sh=
ould define their own<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B authorisation trust model and app=
ly this model to the certificates.<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B The checks enumerate=
d in Section 2.3 provide sufficient flexibility<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B for the=
 implementation of authorisation trust models.<br><br>[BA] I think you need=
 to be more prescriptive here.&nbsp=3B Are there specific<br>fields that a =
RADSEC TLS certificate should contain?&nbsp=3B Having individual<br>impleme=
ntations/deployments defining their own authorization schemes seems<br>like=
 a bad idea.&nbsp=3B <br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B In the case of dynamic peer d=
iscovery as per<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C =
a RADIUS/TLS node needs to be<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B able to accept connection=
s from a large=2C not previously known=2C group<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B of host=
s=2C possibly the whole internet.&nbsp=3B In this case=2C the server's<br>&=
nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B RADIUS/TLS port can not be protected from unauthorised conn=
ection<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B attempts with measures on the network layer=2C i=
.e. access lists and<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B firewalls.&nbsp=3B This opens more=
 attack vectors for Distributed Denial of<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B Service attac=
ks=2C just like any other service that is supposed to<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B s=
erve arbitrary clients (like for example web servers).<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=
=3B In the case of dynamic peer discovery as per<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B [I-D.i=
etf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C X.509 certificates are the only<br>&nbsp=
=3B&nbsp=3B proof of authorisation for a connecting RADIUS/TLS nodes.&nbsp=
=3B Special<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B care needs to be taken that certificates ge=
t verified properly<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B according to the chosen trust model=
 (particularly: consulting CRLs=2C<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B checking critical ex=
tensions=2C checking subjectAltNames etc.) to<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B prevent u=
nauthorised connections.<br><br>Other comments<br><br>Section 1<br><br>&nbs=
p=3B&nbsp=3B One mechanism to discover RADIUS over TLS peers with DNS is sp=
ecified in<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery].<br><br>=
[BA] Recommend moving this to a section devoted to dynamic discovery. <br><=
br>Section 2.1<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B See<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B section Sect=
ion 3.3 (4) and (5) for considerations regarding<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B separa=
tion of authentication=2C accounting and dynauth traffic.<br><br>[BA] Recom=
mend changing to:<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B "See Section 3.3 for consideratio=
ns regarding separation of<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B authentication=2C ac=
counting and dynamic authorisation traffic."<br><br>Section 2.3<br><br>&nbs=
p=3B&nbsp=3B 4.&nbsp=3B start exchanging RADIUS datagrams.&nbsp=3B Note Sec=
tion 3.3 (1) ).&nbsp=3B The<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbs=
p=3B shared secret to compute the (obsolete) MD5 integrity checks and<br>&n=
bsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B attribute encryption MUST be=
 "radsec" (see Section 3.3 (2) ).<br><br>Section 3.1<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=
=3B (3) If dynamic peer discovery as per<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B [I-D.ietf-rade=
xt-dynamic-discovery] is used=2C peer authentication<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B al=
one is not sufficient=3B the peer must also be authorised to perform<br>&nb=
sp=3B&nbsp=3B user authentications.&nbsp=3B In these cases=2C the trust fab=
ric cannot depend<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B on peer authentication methods like D=
NSSEC to identify RADIUS/TLS<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B nodes.&nbsp=3B The nodes a=
lso need to be properly authorised.&nbsp=3B Typically=2C<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=
=3B this can be achieved by adding appropriate authorisation fields into<br=
>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B a X.509 certificate.&nbsp=3B Such fields include SRV auth=
ority [RFC4985]=2C<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B subjectAltNames=2C or a defined list=
 of certificate fingerprints.<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B Operators of a RADIUS/TLS=
 infrastructure should define their own<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B authorisation t=
rust model and apply this model to the certificates.<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B Th=
e checks enumerated in Section 2.3 provide sufficient flexibility<br>&nbsp=
=3B&nbsp=3B for the implementation of authorisation trust models.<br><br>As=
 noted above=2C I'd suggest removing this material from Section 3.1 and <br=
>consolidating it with other dynamic-discovery material. &nbsp=3B<br><br>Se=
ction 3.3<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B Note well: it is not required for an impl=
ementation<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B to actually process these packet types.&nbsp=
=3B It is sufficient that upon<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B receiving such a packet=
=2C an unconditional NAK is sent back to<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B indicate that =
the action is not supported.<br><br>[BA] What Error-Cause attribute value s=
hould be included within the NAK to make it<br>clear that the action is not=
 supported?&nbsp=3B Error 406 "Unsupported Extension"?<br>That is what RFC =
5176 Section 3.5 seems to indicate. <br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B There<br>&nbsp=
=3B&nbsp=3B is no RADIUS datagram to signal an Accounting NAK.&nbsp=3B Clie=
nts may be<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B misconfigured to send Accounting packets to =
a RADIUS/TLS server which<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B does not wish to process thei=
r Accounting packet.&nbsp=3B The server will<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B need to si=
lently drop the packet.&nbsp=3B The client will need to deduce<br>&nbsp=3B&=
nbsp=3B from the absence of replies that it is misconfigured=3B no negative=
<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B ICMP response will reveal this.<br><br>[BA] This seems=
 like a bad idea.&nbsp=3B How about requiring implementations not<br>suppor=
ting Accounting to respond with an Accounting-Response containing<br>Error-=
Cause attribute value 406?&nbsp=3B Implementations receiving an Accounting-=
Response<br>with this Error-Cause can be required to treat this like an ICM=
P response. <br><br>Section 4<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B As a consequence=2C t=
he selection of transports to communicate from a<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B client=
 to a server is a manual administrative action.&nbsp=3B An automatic<br>&nb=
sp=3B&nbsp=3B fallback to RADIUS/UDP is NOT RECOMMENDED=2C as it may lead t=
o down-<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B bidding attacks on the peer communication.<br><=
br>[BA] If a fixed shared secret "radsec" is used alongside fallback to RAD=
IUS/UDP=2C<br>that seems more like a MUST NOT!!<br><br>Section 6<br><br>&nb=
sp=3B&nbsp=3B In the case of dynamic peer discovery as per<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=
=3B [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C a RADIUS/TLS node needs to be<br=
>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B able to accept connections from a large=2C not previously=
 known=2C group<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B of hosts=2C possibly the whole internet=
.&nbsp=3B In this case=2C the server's<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B RADIUS/TLS port =
can not be protected from unauthorised connection<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B attem=
pts with measures on the network layer=2C i.e. access lists and<br>&nbsp=3B=
&nbsp=3B firewalls.&nbsp=3B This opens more attack vectors for Distributed =
Denial of<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B Service attacks=2C just like any other servic=
e that is supposed to<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B serve arbitrary clients (like for=
 example web servers).<br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B In the case of dynamic peer =
discovery as per<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B [I-D.ietf-radext-dynamic-discovery]=2C=
 X.509 certificates are the only<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B proof of authorisation=
 for a connecting RADIUS/TLS nodes.&nbsp=3B Special<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B car=
e needs to be taken that certificates get verified properly<br>&nbsp=3B&nbs=
p=3B according to the chosen trust model (particularly: consulting CRLs=2C<=
br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B checking critical extensions=2C checking subjectAltName=
s etc.) to<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B prevent unauthorised connections.<br><br><br=
>[BA] I'd recommend collecting this and other dynamic-discovery related mat=
erial<br>into a separate section prior to 3.1. <br><br>Appendix C. Assessme=
nt of Crypto-Agility Requirements<br><br><br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B The RADIUS Cr=
ypto-Agility Requirements (link to RFC once issued here)<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=
=3B defines numerous classification criteria for protocols that strive to<b=
r>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B enhance the security of RADIUS.&nbsp=3B It contains mand=
atory (M) and<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B recommended (R) criteria which crypto-agi=
le protocols have to<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B fulfill.&nbsp=3B The authors belie=
ve that the following assessment about the<br>&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B crypto-agili=
ty properties of RADIUS/TLS are true.<br><br>[BA] The Crypto-Agility RFC is=
 now published so you should reference that. 		 	   		  </div></div> 		 	  =
 		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_75ce2aee-23fe-45a0-9629-e8455f2cec62_--

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  This is an automatically generated email.  It lists the IETF internet-drafts
which are WG items; in IETF Last Call, and which reference RADIUS.  Drafts
from the RADEXT and DIME working groups are not included.

--
draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6-06.txt  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netext-radius-pmip6/
