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From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
To: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Review: DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports (dart)
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 16:04:02 +0000
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Subject: [Aeon] FW: WG Review: DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports (dart)
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FYI.
Folks on this list may want to follow and contribute to this new WG. Note,
the charter includes the following:

"This WG will write a document that explains the limitations that exist
with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as well in the specific
RTCWeb cases.=B2


Such limitation are discussed briefly in
draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement-00:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement-00
AEON can solves these. Thoughts?

Cheers,
Charles

On 3/28/14, 11:29 AM, "The IESG" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> wrote:

>A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Real-time Applications
>and Infrastructure Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The
>following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational
>purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg
>at ietf.org) by 2014-04-07.
>
>DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports (dart)
>------------------------------------------------
>Current Status: Proposed WG
>
>Chairs:
>  Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
>
>Technical advisors:
>  Martin Stiemerling <mls.ietf@gmail.com>
>
>Assigned Area Director:
>  Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
>
>Mailing list
>  Address: dart@ietf.org
>  To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart
>  Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dart/
>
>Charter:
>
>DART - DiffServ Applied to Real-time Transports
>
>Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and DiffServ code points (DSCP) can be
>used in some situations to provide quality of service (QoS). Packets with
>different markings can be reordered, which can cause poor interaction
>with a transport protocol that is sensitive to reordering. When RTP
>streams or other real-time media (sub-)flows are used with different DSCP
>values with the same transport 5-tuple, there may be transport protocol
>interactions. There are also environments where the DSCP markings are
>removed or remarked.
>
>This WG will write a document that explains the limitations that exist
>with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as well in the specific
>RTCWeb cases. The WG will coordinate with relevant WGs, including TSVWG,
>AVTCORE, MMUSIC, CLUE, RTCWEB, and RMCAT.
>
>Milestones:
>Aug 2014 - Send Informational draft to IESG on DiffServ usage
>consideration
>
>Milestones:
>
>


From nobody Tue Apr 22 04:39:00 2014
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From: Alper Yegin <alper.yegin@yegin.org>
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To: Peng Fan <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
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Hello Peng and Hui,

I've read your draft. It's a good reading, thank you.

One of the ways to differentiate the network service provided to =
individual apps is to bind them to distinct IP addresses.=20
For example, an app that needs full mobility service can be bound to an =
IP address managed by a Mobile IP Home Agent,
whereas other apps can be bound to the IP address managed by the on-link =
default IP gateway.

This intelligent binding action needs to take place before the app sends =
its first bit of IP traffic. Hence, it's too late for DPI-based =
solutions to help with that.

This is another shortcoming of the DPI solutions.

Alper








From nobody Tue Apr 22 04:48:05 2014
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Hello all,

 

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/ 

The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
review the draft and comment here.

 

I have also reviewed the draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,

My comments are:

1)       Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
analysis document?

2)       For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just
want to clarify:

a)         Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node
and host here before the real traffic start?

b)         Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.

c)         I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it
could be optional?

3)       If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation
of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

4)       Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
also be added in section 3.

 

Also for the draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/

Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
needs, in order to get work further progressed.

 

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two
groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF
meeting. To do that, we probably can:

1)       Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)       Write an independent use case document.

3)       Write an gap analysis document.

Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
Internet and Transport area about the next step?

 

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

 

Best regards,

Peng


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a =
draft: <a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/">h=
ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The =
purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and =
propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help =
to review the draft and comment here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I have also reviewed the =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statemen=
t/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</=
a>,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>My =
comments are:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Shall we consider to =
split the section 4 into an independent gap analysis =
document?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>For the requirements =
section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to =
clarify:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Req. 3 and 4, do you =
expect the interaction between network node and host here before the =
real traffic start?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Req. 5 and 8 are not =
quite clear to us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>I guess that it not =
always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be =
optional?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>If you read our draft, =
we have more experience about the limitation of current DPI/DFI in =
section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Analysis of other =
existing solutions like ACL configuration can also be added in section =
3.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Also for the draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/">http=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here I feel that too =
many use cases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down to a few =
use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, in order to get =
work further progressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>After reading the current work proposed here, we are =
wondering whether two groups of people could work together to propose a =
BoF in the coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably =
can:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Merge the PS draft =
into one document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Write an independent =
use case document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Write an gap analysis =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to =
ADs from both Internet and Transport area about the next =
step?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks a lot for your =
consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Peng<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01CF5E63.B967E200--




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Subject: Re: [Aeon] fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc
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It seems there is problem with my last email. So, send it again. Sorry if
you received duplicated emails.


2014-04-22 21:44 GMT+08:00 Fan, Peng <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>:

> Hello Alper,
>
> Thanks a lot for your kind review. For mobile IP, DPI will have this
> problem. But for network based mobility, it may not be that serious issue
> at
> this moment. We can add this description in our document to clarify it.
>
> Best regards,
> Peng
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alper Yegin
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:39 PM
> To: Peng Fan; Hui Deng
> Cc: aeon@ietf.org
> Subject: [Aeon] fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc
>
> Hello Peng and Hui,
>
> I've read your draft. It's a good reading, thank you.
>
> One of the ways to differentiate the network service provided to individual
> apps is to bind them to distinct IP addresses.
> For example, an app that needs full mobility service can be bound to an IP
> address managed by a Mobile IP Home Agent, whereas other apps can be bound
> to the IP address managed by the on-link default IP gateway.
>
> This intelligent binding action needs to take place before the app sends
> its
> first bit of IP traffic. Hence, it's too late for DPI-based solutions to
> help with that.
>
> This is another shortcoming of the DPI solutions.
>
> Alper
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>
>
>

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<div dir="ltr">It seems there is problem with my last email. So, send it again. Sorry if<br>
you received duplicated emails.<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-04-22 21:44 GMT+08:00 Fan, Peng <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com" target="_blank">fanpeng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Alper,<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot for your kind review. For mobile IP, DPI will have this<br>
problem. But for network based mobility, it may not be that serious issue at<br>
this moment. We can add this description in our document to clarify it.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Peng<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Aeon [mailto:<a href="mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank">aeon-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Alper Yegin<br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:39 PM<br>
To: Peng Fan; Hui Deng<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target="_blank">aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [Aeon] fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc<br>
<br>
Hello Peng and Hui,<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve read your draft. It&#39;s a good reading, thank you.<br>
<br>
One of the ways to differentiate the network service provided to individual<br>
apps is to bind them to distinct IP addresses.<br>
For example, an app that needs full mobility service can be bound to an IP<br>
address managed by a Mobile IP Home Agent, whereas other apps can be bound<br>
to the IP address managed by the on-link default IP gateway.<br>
<br>
This intelligent binding action needs to take place before the app sends its<br>
first bit of IP traffic. Hence, it&#39;s too late for DPI-based solutions to<br>
help with that.<br>
<br>
This is another shortcoming of the DPI solutions.<br>
<br>
Alper<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Aeon@ietf.org" target="_blank">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
To: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>
To: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi Peng,

Please see inline [TR]

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:18 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org
Subject: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hello all,

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft: http://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and pro=
pose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to revi=
ew the draft and comment here.

I have also reviewed the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
My comments are:

1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap an=
alysis document?

2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just w=
ant to clarify:

a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node a=
nd host here before the real traffic start ?

[TR] The interaction between the network node and host could be before or a=
fter the real traffic starts.


b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
[TR] Req. 8 is saying that the flow characteristics signaled by the client =
to the network should have protection against man-in-middle attacker modify=
ing the flow metadata.

I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be op=
tional?

[TR] Yes, Diffserv is optional.  FYI DART WG is recently formed (https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart) to document the limitations of Diffserv.


3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation=
 of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

[TR] Yes, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-=
2.4.8 also discusses similar problem and possible solution to address the p=
roblem.


4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can als=
o be added in section 3.

Also for the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narro=
wing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, i=
n order to get work further progressed.

[TR] Agreed, we are updating the use case draft.

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two =
groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF me=
eting.

[TR] Sounds like a good plan to me.

Cheers,
-Tiru

To do that, we probably can:

1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)      Write an independent use case document.

3)      Write an gap analysis document.
Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Inte=
rnet and Transport area about the next step?

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

Best regards,
Peng

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Pe=
ng,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Pleas=
e see inline [TR]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> aeon@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hello all=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Based on =
our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/">=
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">The purpo=
ses of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more=
 cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the dr=
aft and comment here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I have al=
so reviewed the draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=
=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/">ht=
tp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">My commen=
ts are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">S=
hall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap analysis do=
cument?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">F=
or the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to cl=
arify:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">R=
eq. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node and host he=
re before the real traffic start<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
</span>?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] The interaction between the network node and hos=
t could be before or after the real traffic starts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">R=
eq. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Req. 8 is saying that the flow characteristics s=
ignaled by the client to the network should have protection against man-in-=
middle attacker modifying the flow metadata.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I guess t=
hat it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be optional?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Yes, Diffserv is optional. &nbsp;FYI DART WG is =
recently formed (</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/da=
rt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart</a>)
 to document the limitations of Diffserv.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I=
f you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation of curre=
nt DPI/DFI in section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Yes,
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section=
-2.4.8">
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-2.4.8</a> =
also discusses similar problem and possible solution to address the problem=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">A=
nalysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can also be adde=
d in section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Also for =
the draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=
=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/">http://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Here I fe=
el that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down=
 to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, in order t=
o get work further progressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Agreed, we are updating the use case draft.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">After rea=
ding the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of=
 people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting.
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Sounds like a good plan to me.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">To do tha=
t, we probably can:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">M=
erge the PS draft into one document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">W=
rite an independent use case document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">W=
rite an gap analysis document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Once all =
three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and =
Transport area about the next step?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Thanks a =
lot for your consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best rega=
rds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Peng<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A24319560xmbrcdx10ciscoc_--


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To: Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
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Cc: "gr@gsta.com" <gr@gsta.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi all,

Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with
operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user
experience dramatically.

I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GPP
PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile
operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by
including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.

I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I
personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.

Cheers.

-Rong ZHANG


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com> wrote:

>  Hi, all,
>
>
>
> This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs
> and ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.
>
>
>
> Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to
> share publically early next week.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Sheng
>
>
>
> *From:* Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fan, Peng
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
> *To:* aeon@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
>
> The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
> propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
> review the draft and comment here.
>
>
>
> I have also reviewed the draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
>
> My comments are:
>
> 1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
> analysis document?
>
> 2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just
> want to clarify:
>
> a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node
> and host here before the real traffic start?
>
> b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
>
> c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it
> could be optional?
>
> 3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the
> limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.
>
> 4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
> also be added in section 3.
>
>
>
> Also for the draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
>
> Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
> narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
> needs, in order to get work further progressed.
>
>
>
> After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two
> groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF
> meeting. To do that, we probably can:
>
> 1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.
>
> 2)      Write an independent use case document.
>
> 3)      Write an gap analysis document.
>
> Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
> Internet and Transport area about the next step?
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your consideration.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Peng
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>

--001a11c2db149c31b704f7b1462c
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Speaking as the op=
erator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with operators today which=
 will help to improve the mobile internet user experience dramatically.</di=
v><div>
=C2=A0</div><div>I have one basic comment that current documents have n&#39=
;t talked about 3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with to=
day&#39;s mobile operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis=
 document by including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP&#39;s=
 specificaiton.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><div>I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope B=
oF will happen, I personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.<=
/div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Cheers.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>-Rong ZHANG</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng =
Jiang <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>






<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Hi, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs an=
d ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to =
share publically early next week.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Sheng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:none non=
e none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue;paddi=
ng:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt=
" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> Aeon [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon-bounces@ietf.o=
rg</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Based on our operational experi=
ence, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-p=
s-uc/</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The purposes of this draft are =
to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between O=
TT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the draft and comment here.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have also reviewed the draft:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank">http://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My comments are:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shall we consider to split=
 the section 4 into an independent gap analysis document?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the requirements secti=
on, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to clarify:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>a)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 3 and 4, do you expec=
t the interaction between network node and host here before the real traffi=
c start?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>b)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 5 and 8 are not quite=
 clear to us.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>c)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess that it not always=
 mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be optional?<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you read our draft, we =
have more experience about the limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>4)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Analysis of other existing=
 solutions like ACL configuration can also be added in section 3.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also for the draft:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank">http://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I feel that too many use c=
ases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases fo=
r which we have strong and specific needs, in order to get work further pro=
gressed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After reading the current work =
proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of people could work tog=
ether to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably =
can:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Merge the PS draft into on=
e document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an independent use c=
ase document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an gap analysis docu=
ment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Once all three documents have f=
inished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about t=
he next step?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks a lot for your considera=
tion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Peng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From nobody Wed Apr 23 03:01:31 2014
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] ***SPAM*** 5.539 (5) Re:  fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc
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Hello Tiru,

Another piece of that puzzle which complements =
korhonen-dmm-prefix-properties is =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yegin-dmm-ondemand-mobility/

Alper




On Apr 23, 2014, at 11:10 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote:

> Hi Alper,
>=20
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-korhonen-dmm-prefix-properties-03#sectio=
n-3 is trying to solve the problem you had mentioned for IPv6 and needs =
support from OS.
>=20
> -Tiru
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:32 PM
>> To: 'Alper Yegin'; 'Hui Deng'
>> Cc: aeon@ietf.org
>> Subject: [Aeon] ***SPAM*** 5.539 (5) Re: fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc
>>=20
>> Hello Alper,
>>=20
>> Thanks a lot for your kind review. For mobile IP, DPI will have this
>> problem. But for network based mobility, it may not be that serious =
issue at
>> this moment. We can add this description in our document to clarify =
it.
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Peng
>>=20
>> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED =
Alper Yegin
>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA4=D4=C222=C8=D5 19:39
>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Peng Fan; Hui Deng
>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: aeon@ietf.org
>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: [Aeon] fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc
>>=20
>> Hello Peng and Hui,
>>=20
>> I've read your draft. It's a good reading, thank you.
>>=20
>> One of the ways to differentiate the network service provided to =
individual
>> apps is to bind them to distinct IP addresses.
>> For example, an app that needs full mobility service can be bound to =
an IP
>> address managed by a Mobile IP Home Agent, whereas other apps can be =
bound
>> to the IP address managed by the on-link default IP gateway.
>>=20
>> This intelligent binding action needs to take place before the app =
sends its
>> first bit of IP traffic. Hence, it's too late for DPI-based solutions =
to
>> help with that.
>>=20
>> This is another shortcoming of the DPI solutions.
>>=20
>> Alper
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Aeon mailing list
>> Aeon@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Aeon mailing list
>> Aeon@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon


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From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:30:42 +0000
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References: <00a301cf5e20$ab403530$01c09f90$@chinamobile.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A24319560@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Please see addition comment inline.

From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com<mailto:tireddy@cisc=
o.com>>
Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 at 11:08 PM
To: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com<mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>, =
"aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>" <aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hi Peng,

Please see inline [TR]

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:18 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>
Subject: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hello all,

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft: http://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and pro=
pose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to revi=
ew the draft and comment here.

I have also reviewed the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
My comments are:

1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap an=
alysis document?

2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just w=
ant to clarify:

a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node a=
nd host here before the real traffic start?

[TR] The interaction between the network node and host could be before or a=
fter the real traffic starts.

The flow descriptions could change over time due to changes in application =
operation, and the network feedback could change as well as the network con=
ditions change.



b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
[TR] Req. 8 is saying that the flow characteristics signaled by the client =
to the network should have protection against man-in-middle attacker modify=
ing the flow metadata.

Req 5 is about incremental deployability. Various heuristic based mechanism=
s, including DPI, are being used with some success in many networks. These =
should continue to work as portions of the applications and network are ena=
bled with the functionality proposed in AEON.


I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be op=
tional?

[TR] Yes, Diffserv is optional.  FYI DART WG is recently formed (https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart) to document the limitations of Diffserv.


3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation=
 of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

[TR] Yes, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-=
2.4.8 also discusses similar problem and possible solution to address the p=
roblem.


4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can als=
o be added in section 3.

Yes, good point.


Also for the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narro=
wing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, i=
n order to get work further progressed.

[TR] Agreed, we are updating the use case draft.

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two =
groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF me=
eting.

[TR] Sounds like a good plan to me.

Sounds good to me as well.

Cheers,
Charles


Cheers,
-Tiru

To do that, we probably can:

1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)      Write an independent use case document.

3)      Write an gap analysis document.
Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Inte=
rnet and Transport area about the next step?

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

Best regards,
Peng

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<div>Please see addition comment inline.</div>
<div><br>
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;Tirumaleswar Reddy (tir=
eddy)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tireddy@cisco.com">tireddy@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, April 22, 2014 at 11=
:08 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;Fan, Peng&quot; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com">fanpeng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Aeon] Comments and ne=
xt step proposal<br>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Pe=
ng,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Pleas=
e see inline [TR]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><=
span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> Aeon [<a =
href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hello all=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Based on =
our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/">=
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">The purpo=
ses of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more=
 cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the dr=
aft and comment here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I have al=
so reviewed the draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=
=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/">ht=
tp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">My commen=
ts are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap analysi=
s document?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want t=
o clarify:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node and hos=
t here before the real traffic start<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"></span>?<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] The interaction between the network node and hos=
t could be before or after the real traffic starts.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The flow descriptions could change over time due to changes in applica=
tion operation, and the network feedback could change as well as the networ=
k conditions change.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-tr=
im:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Req. 8 is saying that the flow characteristics s=
ignaled by the client to the network should have protection against man-in-=
middle attacker modifying the flow metadata.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Req 5 is about incremental deployability. Various heuristic based mech=
anisms, including DPI, are being used with some success in many networks. T=
hese should continue to work as portions of the applications and network ar=
e enabled with the functionality
 proposed in AEON.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-tr=
im:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I guess t=
hat it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be optional?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Yes, Diffserv is optional. &nbsp;FYI DART WG is =
recently formed (</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/da=
rt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart</a>)
 to document the limitations of Diffserv.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation of c=
urrent DPI/DFI in section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Yes,
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section=
-2.4.8">
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-2.4.8</a> =
also discusses similar problem and possible solution to address the problem=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can also be =
added in section 3.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, good point.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-tr=
im:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Also for =
the draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=
=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/">http://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Here I fe=
el that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down=
 to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, in order t=
o get work further progressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Agreed, we are updating the use case draft.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">After rea=
ding the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of=
 people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting.
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">[TR] Sounds like a good plan to me.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sounds good to me as well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Charles</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-tr=
im:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">To do tha=
t, we probably can:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Merge the PS draft into one document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Write an independent use case document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant:=
 normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fam=
ily: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-C=
N">Write an gap analysis document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Once all =
three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and =
Transport area about the next step?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Thanks a =
lot for your consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best rega=
rds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Peng<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
To: Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Cc: "gr@gsta.com" <gr@gsta.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi Rong,

I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me if I have it wrong=
. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means for AEON to inte=
ract with the existing 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how to ge=
t the necessary information to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON can =
be used for end applications to communicate this information to the 3GPP ne=
twork for consumption over the Rx interface. In 3GPP, I do not believe end =
applications have direct access to the Rx interface. AEON fills that gap.
As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, the original guid=
ance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport. Once we have the=
 updated drafts in place, we can certainly revisit that decision.

Cheers,
Charles

From: Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1:11 AM
To: Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com<mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com>>
Cc: "gr@gsta.com<mailto:gr@gsta.com>" <gr@gsta.com<mailto:gr@gsta.com>>, "a=
eon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>" <aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>>, =
"Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com<mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hi all,

Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with ope=
rators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user experience=
 dramatically.

I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GPP =
PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile operator=
, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by including ho=
w IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.

I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I pers=
onally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.

Cheers.

-Rong ZHANG


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com<mailto=
:jiangsheng@huawei.com>> wrote:
Hi, all,

This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs an=
d ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.

Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to =
share publically early next week.

Best regards,

Sheng

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org>] On =
Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>
Subject: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hello all,

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft: http://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and pro=
pose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to revi=
ew the draft and comment here.

I have also reviewed the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
My comments are:

1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap an=
alysis document?

2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just w=
ant to clarify:

a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node a=
nd host here before the real traffic start?

b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.

c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it c=
ould be optional?

3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation=
 of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can als=
o be added in section 3.

Also for the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narro=
wing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, i=
n order to get work further progressed.

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two =
groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF me=
eting. To do that, we probably can:

1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)      Write an independent use case document.

3)      Write an gap analysis document.
Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Inte=
rnet and Transport area about the next step?

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

Best regards,
Peng

_______________________________________________
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Aeon@ietf.org<mailto:Aeon@ietf.org>
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi Rong,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me if I have it =
wrong. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means for AEON to=
 interact with the existing 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how =
to get the necessary information
 to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON can be used for end application=
s to communicate this information to the 3GPP network for consumption over =
the Rx interface. In 3GPP, I do not believe end applications have direct ac=
cess to the Rx interface. AEON fills
 that gap.</div>
<div>As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, the original=
 guidance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport. Once we hav=
e the updated drafts in place, we can certainly revisit that decision.</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Charles</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Rong Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com">rzhang.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at =
1:11 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Sheng Jiang &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:jiangsheng@huawei.com">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta=
.com">gr@gsta.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta.com">gr@gsta.com<=
/a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;Fan, Peng&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com">fanpeng@chinamobile.com<=
/a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Aeon] Comments and ne=
xt step proposal<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working wit=
h operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user exper=
ience dramatically.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about =
3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile ope=
rator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by includi=
ng how IETF work could be a complimentary
 to 3GPP's specificaiton.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I=
 personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Cheers.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-Rong ZHANG</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@h=
uawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Hi, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs an=
d ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to =
share publically early next week.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Sheng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:none non=
e none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue;paddi=
ng:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">Fr=
om:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10=
pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> Aeon [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">aeon-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Based on our operational experi=
ence, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/" =
target=3D"_blank">
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a> <u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The purposes of this draft are =
to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between O=
TT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the draft and comment here.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have also reviewed the draft:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank">http://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My comments are:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shall we consider to split=
 the section 4 into an independent gap analysis document?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the requirements secti=
on, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to clarify:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>a)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 3 and 4, do you expec=
t the interaction between network node and host here before the real traffi=
c start?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>b)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 5 and 8 are not quite=
 clear to us.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>c)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess that it not always=
 mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be optional?<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you read our draft, we =
have more experience about the limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>4)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Analysis of other existing=
 solutions like ACL configuration can also be added in section 3.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also for the draft:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank">http://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I feel that too many use c=
ases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases fo=
r which we have strong and specific needs, in order to get work further pro=
gressed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After reading the current work =
proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of people could work tog=
ether to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably =
can:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Merge the PS draft into on=
e document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an independent use c=
ase document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-s=
ize: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an gap analysis docu=
ment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Once all three documents have f=
inished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about t=
he next step?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks a lot for your considera=
tion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Peng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:42:31 +0800
Message-ID: <CANF0JMBdUJFm6FDoa4K5++xuhHNvVS-6wn81jFxVCz_vKmDwcw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
To: Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/aeon/5eZUCmqzWMBE_HGhQBh2_gMJfX4
Cc: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, "BARI, FAROOQ \(ATTSI\)" <fb5431@att.com>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi Rong,

Thanks for your feedback, I guess that you raised one of key point that
3GPP may also consider today about interaction between operators and OTT, I
guess that today Rx interface are still diameter based, they may consider
other high layer protocols as well in the future. but in that case, I think
that they are more focusing on server side negotiation without involvement
client information, for example, client is sitting behind of NAT. and some
other granularity information.

I am cc to Farooq who is quite expert in this field.

Best regards,

-Hui



2014-04-23 16:11 GMT+08:00 Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with
> operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user
> experience dramatically.
>
> I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GPP
> PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile
> operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by
> including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.
>
> I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I
> personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.
>
> Cheers.
>
> -Rong ZHANG
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>wrote:
>
>>  Hi, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs
>> and ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope
>> to share publically early next week.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sheng
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fan, Peng
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
>>
>> *To:* aeon@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
>>
>> The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
>> propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
>> review the draft and comment here.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also reviewed the draft:
>>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
>>
>> My comments are:
>>
>> 1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
>> analysis document?
>>
>> 2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and
>> just want to clarify:
>>
>> a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network
>> node and host here before the real traffic start?
>>
>> b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
>>
>> c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here,
>> it could be optional?
>>
>> 3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the
>> limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.
>>
>> 4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
>> also be added in section 3.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also for the draft:
>>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
>>
>> Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
>> narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
>> needs, in order to get work further progressed.
>>
>>
>>
>> After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether
>> two groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming
>> IETF meeting. To do that, we probably can:
>>
>> 1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.
>>
>> 2)      Write an independent use case document.
>>
>> 3)      Write an gap analysis document.
>>
>> Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
>> Internet and Transport area about the next step?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot for your consideration.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Peng
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Aeon mailing list
>> Aeon@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>

--001a11c28c7006e9d004f7b6be8c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Rong,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your feedback, I gu=
ess that you raised one of key point that 3GPP may also consider today abou=
t interaction between operators and OTT, I guess that today Rx interface ar=
e still diameter based, they may consider other high layer protocols as wel=
l in the future. but in that case, I think that they are more focusing on s=
erver side negotiation without involvement client information, for example,=
 client is sitting behind of NAT. and some other granularity information.</=
div>
<div><br></div><div>I am cc to Farooq who is quite expert in this field.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>-Hui</div><di=
v><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">
2014-04-23 16:11 GMT+08:00 Rong Zhang <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rzhang.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Speaking as the op=
erator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with operators today which=
 will help to improve the mobile internet user experience dramatically.</di=
v><div>

=C2=A0</div><div>I have one basic comment that current documents have n&#39=
;t talked about 3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with to=
day&#39;s mobile operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis=
 document by including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP&#39;s=
 specificaiton.</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><div>I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope B=
oF will happen, I personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.<=
/div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Cheers.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>-Rong ZHANG</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at =
11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@hu=
awei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class=
=3D"gmail_quote">






<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
<div><div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Hi, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs an=
d ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to =
share publically early next week.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Sheng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div><div style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:no=
ne none none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue=
;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt=
" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> Aeon [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon-bounces@ietf.o=
rg</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM</span></p><div class=3D""><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></div><=
p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div><div class=3D"">
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Based on our operational experi=
ence, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-p=
s-uc/</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The purposes of this draft are =
to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between O=
TT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the draft and comment here.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have also reviewed the draft:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank">http://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My comments are:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shall we consider to split=
 the section 4 into an independent gap analysis document?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the requirements secti=
on, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to clarify:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>a)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 3 and 4, do you expec=
t the interaction between network node and host here before the real traffi=
c start?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p style=3D"margin-left:42pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>b)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 5 and 8 are not quite=
 clear to us.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>c)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess that it not always=
 mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be optional?<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><div class=3D"">
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you read our draft, we =
have more experience about the limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>4)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Analysis of other existing=
 solutions like ACL configuration can also be added in section 3.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also for the draft:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank">http://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I feel that too many use c=
ases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases fo=
r which we have strong and specific needs, in order to get work further pro=
gressed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After reading the current=
 work proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of people could wo=
rk together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting. To do that, we pro=
bably can:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div class=3D"">

<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Merge the PS draft into on=
e document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an independent use c=
ase document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span style=3D"font:7pt/normal &quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an gap analysis docu=
ment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Once all three documents have f=
inished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about t=
he next step?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks a lot for your considera=
tion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Peng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a11c28c7006e9d004f7b6be8c--


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In-Reply-To: <CF7D1D3C.26D5A%eckelcu@cisco.com>
References: <CABYVfykV1KfgE2_9F+wtO-=Qqqkqi+9tNwc-J0LanZ8-x6mpNg@mail.gmail.com> <CF7D1D3C.26D5A%eckelcu@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:46:22 +0800
Message-ID: <CANF0JMB2WDjQfkZj=dL5UWM9bHN+1XZBkr+r5sOVoe+Vui0N3w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/aeon/XPOyQV_mUFs2AaU1pAuD7i-B40M
Cc: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, "BARI, FAROOQ \(ATTSI\)" <fb5431@att.com>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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--089e0111dc68da24e904f7b6cbbf
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Hi Charles,

Rx interface rely on application server to communicate with network
infrastructure, but IS that sufficient and more dynamical, realtime.

Will see whether Farooq could kindly help to explain it.

Best regards,

-Hui


2014-04-23 22:37 GMT+08:00 Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com>:

>  Hi Rong,
>
>  I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me if I have it
> wrong. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means for AEON to
> interact with the existing 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how
> to get the necessary information to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON
> can be used for end applications to communicate this information to the
> 3GPP network for consumption over the Rx interface. In 3GPP, I do not
> believe end applications have direct access to the Rx interface. AEON fills
> that gap.
> As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, the original
> guidance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport. Once we have
> the updated drafts in place, we can certainly revisit that decision.
>
>  Cheers,
> Charles
>
>   From: Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1:11 AM
> To: Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
> Cc: "gr@gsta.com" <gr@gsta.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, "Fan,
> Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
> Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>    Hi all,
>
> Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with
> operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user
> experience dramatically.
>
> I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GPP
> PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile
> operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by
> including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.
>
> I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I
> personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.
>
> Cheers.
>
> -Rong ZHANG
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>wrote:
>
>>  Hi, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs
>> and ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope
>> to share publically early next week.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sheng
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fan, Peng
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
>> *To:* aeon@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
>>
>> The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
>> propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
>> review the draft and comment here.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also reviewed the draft:
>>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
>>
>> My comments are:
>>
>> 1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
>> analysis document?
>>
>> 2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and
>> just want to clarify:
>>
>> a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network
>> node and host here before the real traffic start?
>>
>> b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
>>
>> c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here,
>> it could be optional?
>>
>> 3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the
>> limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.
>>
>> 4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
>> also be added in section 3.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also for the draft:
>>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
>>
>> Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
>> narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
>> needs, in order to get work further progressed.
>>
>>
>>
>> After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether
>> two groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming
>> IETF meeting. To do that, we probably can:
>>
>> 1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.
>>
>> 2)      Write an independent use case document.
>>
>> 3)      Write an gap analysis document.
>>
>> Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
>> Internet and Transport area about the next step?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot for your consideration.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Peng
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Aeon mailing list
>> Aeon@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>

--089e0111dc68da24e904f7b6cbbf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Charles,=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Rx interface rely on =
application server to communicate with network infrastructure, but IS that =
sufficient and more dynamical, realtime.</div><div><br></div><div>Will see =
whether Farooq could kindly help to explain it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>-Hui</div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-04-23 22=
:37 GMT+08:00 Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:eckelcu@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">eckelcu@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span>:<b=
r>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div>Hi Rong,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me if I have it =
wrong. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means for AEON to=
 interact with the existing 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how =
to get the necessary information
 to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON can be used for end application=
s to communicate this information to the 3GPP network for consumption over =
the Rx interface. In 3GPP, I do not believe end applications have direct ac=
cess to the Rx interface. AEON fills
 that gap.</div>
<div>As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, the original=
 guidance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport. Once we hav=
e the updated drafts in place, we can certainly revisit that decision.</div=
>

<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Charles</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"border-right:medium none;padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;p=
adding-top:3pt;text-align:left;font-size:11pt;border-bottom:medium none;fon=
t-family:Calibri;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;padding-bottom:0in;border-lef=
t:medium none">

<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Rong Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rzhang.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at =
1:11 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Sheng Jiang &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta=
.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta=
.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ae=
on@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;Fan, Peng&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com" target=3D"_blank">fanpeng@c=
hinamobile.com</a>&gt;<br>

<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Aeon] Comments and ne=
xt step proposal<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working wit=
h operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user exper=
ience dramatically.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I have one basic comment that current documents have n&#39;t talked ab=
out 3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today&#39;s mo=
bile operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by=
 including how IETF work could be a complimentary
 to 3GPP&#39;s specificaiton.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I=
 personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Cheers.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>-Rong ZHANG</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@h=
uawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Hi, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs an=
d ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to =
share publically early next week.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
Sheng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:none non=
e none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue;paddi=
ng:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"=
>
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</=
span></b><span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Aeon [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">aeon-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"text-align:left" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Based on our operational experi=
ence, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/" =
target=3D"_blank">
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a> <u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The purposes of this draft are =
to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between O=
TT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the draft and comment here.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have also reviewed the draft:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank">http://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My comments are:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shall we consider to split=
 the section 4 into an independent gap analysis document?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the requirements secti=
on, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to clarify:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>a)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 3 and 4, do you expec=
t the interaction between network node and host here before the real traffi=
c start?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>b)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Req. 5 and 8 are not quite=
 clear to us.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>c)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess that it not always=
 mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be optional?<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you read our draft, we =
have more experience about the limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>4)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Analysis of other existing=
 solutions like ACL configuration can also be added in section 3.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also for the draft:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank">http://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I feel that too many use c=
ases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases fo=
r which we have strong and specific needs, in order to get work further pro=
gressed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After reading the current work =
proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of people could work tog=
ether to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably =
can:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Merge the PS draft into on=
e document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an independent use c=
ase document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:18pt"><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span sty=
le=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7p=
t;line-height:normal;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Write an gap analysis docu=
ment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Once all three documents have f=
inished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about t=
he next step?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks a lot for your considera=
tion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Peng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></span>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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References: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A24319940@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 23:02:16 +0800
Message-ID: <CANF0JMC+m20ZuGwJYvcyob9wOG71m1-XJQssya2OOTQUziWvyA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>
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Cc: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, "Fan,  Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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We may also look at this draft for the long time submission.:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-pcp-mobile-deployment-04

-Hui


2014-04-23 22:47 GMT+08:00 Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) <tireddy@cisco.com>=
:

>  Agreed it=E2=80=99s a problem that interests other operators too.
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-penno-pcp-mobile-qos-00 explains the
> problem and solution for OTT working with Mobile Network.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Tiru
>
>
>
> *From:* Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Rong Zhang
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2014 1:41 PM
> *To:* Sheng Jiang
> *Cc:* gr@gsta.com; aeon@ietf.org; Fan, Peng
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with
> operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user
> experience dramatically.
>
>
>
> I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GP=
P
> PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile
> operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by
> including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.
>
>
>
> I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I
> personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> -Rong ZHANG
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
>
>
> This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs
> and ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.
>
>
>
> Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope t=
o
> share publically early next week.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Sheng
>
>
>
> *From:* Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fan, Peng
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
> *To:* aeon@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
>
> The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
> propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
> review the draft and comment here.
>
>
>
> I have also reviewed the draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
>
> My comments are:
>
> 1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
> analysis document?
>
> 2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just
> want to clarify:
>
> a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node
> and host here before the real traffic start?
>
> b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
>
> c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it
> could be optional?
>
> 3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the
> limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.
>
> 4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
> also be added in section 3.
>
>
>
> Also for the draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
>
> Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
> narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
> needs, in order to get work further progressed.
>
>
>
> After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether tw=
o
> groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF
> meeting. To do that, we probably can:
>
> 1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.
>
> 2)      Write an independent use case document.
>
> 3)      Write an gap analysis document.
>
> Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
> Internet and Transport area about the next step?
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your consideration.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Peng
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>

--089e0111dc68b6672d04f7b704af
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">We may also look at this draft for the long time submissio=
n.:<div><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-pcp-mobile-deploy=
ment-04">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-pcp-mobile-deployment-04</a=
><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>-Hui</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-04-23 22:47 GMT+08:00 Tirumaleswar Reddy =
(tireddy) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tireddy@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">tireddy@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Agreed it=E2=80=99s a pro=
blem that interests other operators too.
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-penno-pcp-mobile-qos-00" target=
=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-penno-pcp-mobile-qos-00</a> ex=
plains the problem and solution for OTT working with Mobile Network.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">-Tiru<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Aeon [ma=
ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rong Zhang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 23, 2014 1:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sheng Jiang<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.com</a>=
; <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org</a>; Fan=
, Peng</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></d=
iv></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that O=
TT are working with operators today which will help to improve the mobile i=
nternet user experience dramatically.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have one basic comment that current documents have=
 n&#39;t talked about 3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work w=
ith today&#39;s mobile operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap an=
alysis document by including how IETF work
 could be a complimentary to 3GPP&#39;s specificaiton.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope =
BoF will happen, I personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-Rong ZHANG<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Hi, all,</span><span><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">This is a real require=
ment from network operation perspective. Both ISPs and ICPs can benefit fro=
m this advance collaborative
 network model.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Rong Zhang and I are w=
orking on an gap analysis document, which we hope to share publically early=
 next week.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Best regards,</span><s=
pan><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Sheng</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 4.0pt;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 Aeon [mailto:</span><a href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">aeon-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;">aeon@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>

<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal</span><span><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Based on our operational experience, we have s=
ubmitted a draft:
</span><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-p=
s-uc/" target=3D"_blank"><span>http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-in=
tarea-conet-ps-uc/</span></a><span>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>The purposes of this draft are to encourage le=
ss DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between OTT and Operator=
s. Please kindly
 help to review the draft and comment here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I have also reviewed the draft:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eck=
el-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank"><span>http://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</span></a><span>,<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>My comments are:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>1)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent g=
ap analysis document?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>2)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and j=
ust want to clarify:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span>a)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0=
pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network no=
de and host here before the real traffic start?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span>b)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0=
pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span>c)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0=
pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, i=
t could be optional?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>3)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limit=
ation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>4)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration ca=
n also be added in section 3.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Also for the draft:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eck=
el-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank"><span>http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Here I feel that too many use cases are listed=
 here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have=
 strong and specific
 needs, in order to get work further progressed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>After reading the current work proposed here, =
we are wondering whether two groups of people could work together to propos=
e a BoF in the
 coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably can:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>1)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Merge the PS draft into one document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>2)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Write an independent use case document.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span>3)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0p=
t">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span>Write an gap analysis document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Once all three documents have finished, we cou=
ld talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about the next step?<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Thanks a lot for your consideration.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Peng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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To: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>, "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 17:38:40 +0000
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Cc: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
To: "BARI, FAROOQ" <fb5431@att.com>, Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi Farooq,

Thank you for sharing your insights. I just accepted the pending request to=
 post your message to the alias, so it should be available via the list soo=
n.
Please see additional comments inline.

From: <BARI>, FAROOQ <fb5431@att.com<mailto:fb5431@att.com>>
Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 10:38 AM
To: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com<mailto:denghui02@gmail.com>>, Charles Eck=
el <eckelcu@cisco.com<mailto:eckelcu@cisco.com>>
Cc: Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>>, Sheng=
 Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com<mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com>>, "aeon@ietf.or=
g<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>" <aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>>, "Fan, Peng"=
 <fanpeng@chinamobile.com<mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>
Subject: RE: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Thanks Hui for forwarding this thread. The Rx interface is between an appli=
cation server in the network and a 3GPP policy server (that can influence I=
P flow=92s assigned QoS). Currently Rx interface uses Diameter to carry QoS=
 needs for a session to the 3GPP network. How the application server become=
s aware of the IP session=92s QoS needs is application dependent. For examp=
le in the case of IMS SDP information carried along with SIP messages provi=
des this type of information to the application server.

Viewing the SDP means either being in the application signaling path and be=
ing able to decrypt the encrypted SIP/SDP messages. For OTT this will not b=
e possible, so we need another mechanism.

In other application types it maybe some other protocol or some proprietary=
 means by which the application server is able to identify particular IP fl=
ow=92s QoS needs. TDF (similar to DPI) in 3GPP  is an additional tool along=
 with Rx interface in this discussion where the network can identify certai=
n service types via packet inspection to provide them with necessary QoS (r=
ather than explicit signaling via Rx).  I do not have enough data to say wh=
ether this functionality is sufficient or if more is needed.

Such heuristic based mechanisms will face difficulties when it comes to OTT=
 applications. I think this is a good use case to be addressed by AEON, to =
use explicit and standards based communication between the application and =
the network to achieve what is currently achieved through a combination of =
proprietary mechanisms and heuristics. Would you be able to propose some te=
xt for that use case, or to review some text if I take a shot at it.

Cheers,
Charles


BTW I am not subscribed to aeon =96 so I assume my response will get reject=
ed from that email list :).


BR,

Farooq Bari, PhD
Lead Member Technical Staff
Standards & Industry Alliances
AT&T Services, Inc.

Email: farooq.bari@att.com<mailto:farooq.bari@att.com>
Tel: +1 425 580 5526

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are AT&T property, are confid=
ential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to =
whom this email is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipient(s) =
or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in =
error, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately from yo=
ur computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing,=
 or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited

From: Hui Deng [mailto:denghui02@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:46 AM
To: Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
Cc: Rong Zhang; Sheng Jiang; aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>; Fan, Peng=
; BARI, FAROOQ
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hi Charles,

Rx interface rely on application server to communicate with network infrast=
ructure, but IS that sufficient and more dynamical, realtime.

Will see whether Farooq could kindly help to explain it.

Best regards,

-Hui

2014-04-23 22:37 GMT+08:00 Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com<mailt=
o:eckelcu@cisco.com>>:
Hi Rong,

I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me if I have it wrong=
. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means for AEON to inte=
ract with the existing 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how to ge=
t the necessary information to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON can =
be used for end applications to communicate this information to the 3GPP ne=
twork for consumption over the Rx interface. In 3GPP, I do not believe end =
applications have direct access to the Rx interface. AEON fills that gap.
As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, the original guid=
ance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport. Once we have the=
 updated drafts in place, we can certainly revisit that decision.

Cheers,
Charles

From: Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1:11 AM
To: Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com<mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com>>
Cc: "gr@gsta.com<mailto:gr@gsta.com>" <gr@gsta.com<mailto:gr@gsta.com>>, "a=
eon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>" <aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>>, =
"Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com<mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com>>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hi all,

Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with ope=
rators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user experience=
 dramatically.

I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GPP =
PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile operator=
, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by including ho=
w IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.

I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I pers=
onally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.

Cheers.

-Rong ZHANG

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com<mailto=
:jiangsheng@huawei.com>> wrote:
Hi, all,

This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs an=
d ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.

Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to =
share publically early next week.

Best regards,

Sheng

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org>] On =
Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org<mailto:aeon@ietf.org>
Subject: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

Hello all,

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft: http://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and pro=
pose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to revi=
ew the draft and comment here.

I have also reviewed the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
My comments are:

1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap an=
alysis document?

2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just w=
ant to clarify:

a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node a=
nd host here before the real traffic start?

b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.

c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it c=
ould be optional?

3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation=
 of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can als=
o be added in section 3.

Also for the draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narro=
wing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, i=
n order to get work further progressed.

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two =
groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF me=
eting. To do that, we probably can:

1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)      Write an independent use case document.

3)      Write an gap analysis document.
Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Inte=
rnet and Transport area about the next step?

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

Best regards,
Peng

_______________________________________________
Aeon mailing list
Aeon@ietf.org<mailto:Aeon@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon


_______________________________________________
Aeon mailing list
Aeon@ietf.org<mailto:Aeon@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon


--_000_CF7D55EE26DF4eckelcuciscocom_
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi Farooq,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for sharing your insights. I just accepted the pending reque=
st to post your message to the alias, so it should be available via the lis=
t soon.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Please see additional comments inline.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&lt;BARI&gt;, FAROOQ &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:fb5431@att.com">fb5431@att.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at =
10:38 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Hui Deng &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
denghui02@gmail.com">denghui02@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Charles Eckel &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:eckelcu@cisco.com">eckelcu@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Rong Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com">rzhang.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Sheng Jiang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;=
<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;Fan, Peng&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com">fanpe=
ng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [Aeon] Comments and ne=
xt step proposal<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks Hui for forwarding this thre=
ad. The Rx interface is between an application server in the network and a =
3GPP policy server (that can influence
 IP flow=92s assigned QoS). Currently Rx interface uses Diameter to carry Q=
oS needs for a session to the 3GPP network. How the application server beco=
mes aware of the IP session=92s QoS needs is application dependent. For exa=
mple in the case of IMS SDP information
 carried along with SIP messages provides this type of information to the a=
pplication server.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Viewing the SDP means either being in the application signaling path a=
nd being able to decrypt the encrypted SIP/SDP messages. For OTT this will =
not be possible, so we need another mechanism.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
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/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In other application types it maybe=
 some other protocol or some proprietary means by which the application ser=
ver is able to identify particular IP
 flow=92s QoS needs. TDF (similar to DPI) in 3GPP &nbsp;is an additional to=
ol along with Rx interface in this discussion where the network can identif=
y certain service types via packet inspection to provide them with necessar=
y QoS (rather than explicit signaling via
 Rx). &nbsp;I do not have enough data to say whether this functionality is =
sufficient or if more is needed.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Such heuristic based mechanisms will face difficulties when it comes t=
o OTT applications. I think this is a good use case to be addressed by AEON=
, to use explicit and standards based communication between the application=
 and the network to achieve what
 is currently achieved through a combination of proprietary mechanisms and =
heuristics. Would you be able to propose some text for that use case, or to=
 review some text if I take a shot at it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Charles</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">BTW I am not subscribed to aeon =96=
 so I assume my response will get rejected from that email list
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"=
>J</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">Farooq B=
ari, PhD<br>
Lead Member Technical Staff<br>
Standards &amp; Industry Alliances</span><span style=3D"color:blue"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">AT&amp;T=
 Services, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue"><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">Email: <=
a href=3D"mailto:farooq.bari@att.com">
farooq.bari@att.com</a><br>
Tel: &#43;1 425 580 5526</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">This e-m=
ail and any files transmitted with it are AT&amp;T property, are confidenti=
al, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom=
 this email is addressed. If you are not
 one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you=
 have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete t=
his message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, disse=
mination, forwarding, printing,
 or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited</span><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-famil=
y: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> Hui Deng [<a href=3D"mailto:denghui02@gmail.com">m=
ailto:denghui02@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Charles Eckel (eckelcu)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rong Zhang; Sheng Jiang; <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@i=
etf.org</a>; Fan, Peng; BARI, FAROOQ<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Charles,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rx interface rely on application server to communica=
te with network infrastructure, but IS that sufficient and more dynamical, =
realtime.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Will see whether Farooq could kindly help to explain=
 it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-Hui<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2014-04-23 22:37 GMT&#43;08:00 Charles Eckel (eckelc=
u) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eckelcu@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">eckelcu@cisco=
.com</a>&gt;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">Hi Rong,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me i=
f I have it wrong. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means=
 for AEON to interact with the existing
 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how to get the necessary inform=
ation to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON can be used for end applic=
ations to communicate this information to the 3GPP network for consumption =
over the Rx interface. In 3GPP,
 I do not believe end applications have direct access to the Rx interface. =
AEON fills that gap.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, =
the original guidance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport.=
 Once we have the updated drafts in
 place, we can certainly revisit that decision.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">Charles<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
;">Rong Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">rzhang.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1:11 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Sheng Jiang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.c=
om</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@i=
etf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ae=
on@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;Fan, Peng&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">fanpeng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are=
 working with operators today which will help to improve the mobile interne=
t user experience dramatically.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">I have one basic comment that current documents have n't t=
alked about 3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today'=
s mobile operator, I will work with
 Sheng to write the gap analysis document by including how IETF work could =
be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF wi=
ll happen, I personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">Cheers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">-Rong ZHANG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hi, all,<=
/span><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">This is a=
 real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs and ICPs ca=
n benefit from this advance collaborative
 network model.</span><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Rong Zhan=
g and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope to share pub=
lically early next week.</span><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best rega=
rds,</span><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Sheng</sp=
an><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 4.0pt;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif=
;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, san=
s-serif;"> Aeon [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">aeon-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal</span><span style=3D=
"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Based on our operationa=
l experience, we have submitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/" =
target=3D"_blank">
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a> <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">The purposes of this dr=
aft are to encourage less DPI in the network and propose more cooperation b=
etween OTT and Operators. Please kindly
 help to review the draft and comment here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">I have also reviewed th=
e draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank">=
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">My comments are:<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">1)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap analysis =
document?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">2)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to =
clarify:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">a)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-farea=
st-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node and host =
here before the real traffic start?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">b)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-farea=
st-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">c)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-farea=
st-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be o=
ptional?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">3)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation of cur=
rent DPI/DFI in section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">4)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can also be ad=
ded in section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Also for the draft:<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank">http://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Here I feel that too ma=
ny use cases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use =
cases for which we have strong and specific
 needs, in order to get work further progressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">After reading the curre=
nt work proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of people could =
work together to propose a BoF in the
 coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably can:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">1)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Merge the PS draft into one document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">2)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Write an independent use case document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">3)</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"=
>Write an gap analysis document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Once all three document=
s have finished, we could talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area=
 about the next step?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Thanks a lot for your c=
onsideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Best regards,<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Peng<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:49:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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From nobody Thu Apr 24 04:53:25 2014
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From: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
To: <pierrick.seite@orange.com>, <aeon@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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He Pierrick,

=20

Many thanks for the comments. I agree the goal of this work is to =
achieve no DPI or less DPI. With traffic characteristics provided by =
ICPs, network can better identify traffic flows of applications, without =
DPI (if the characteristics are easy to be detected by network elements) =
or with some level of DPI (if the characteristics hide deeply in the =
packet). But even with DPI involved, flow identification is not =
heuristic any more, as applications have provided traffic =
characteristics. Requirement of network resource is also information =
sent by ICPs.

=20

Content based charging is already deployed in China. For example, =
Alibaba has the cooperation with China Mobile and China Unicom for the =
charge of its traffic.

=20

Best regards,

Peng

=20

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
pierrick.seite@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:41 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

=20

Hi Peng, Hui,

=20

Thanks for having informed me about the AEON effort, which is really =
interesting.

=20

I had a quick look on draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc and I have a short =
comment (just to check that we are on the same page): if I understand =
well the last paragraph of the introduction, the ICP could provide its =
traffic characteristics so that it makes traffic identification easier =
for the ISP. Such statement is a bit confusing since it seems to =
advocate for DPI improvement, while, IMHO, the goal of AEON should be to =
get rid of DPI (at least to relax dependency to DPI). I think the ICP =
should rather indicate its requirement (e.g. application QoS =
requirements) to network policy control function (e.g. PCRF in 3GPP =
network) in order to negotiate network resource before the application =
session starts, then the ICP should be able to update requirements and =
re-negotiate resources during the session (but we may also want to keep =
DPI to update network resource during a session=E2=80=A6).

=20

BTW, is content based charging really implemented somewhere? It seems to =
be a nightmare for the customer J

=20

BR,

Pierrick

=20

=20

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org
Subject: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

=20

Hello all,

=20

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft: =
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/=20

The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and =
propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help =
to review the draft and comment here.

=20

I have also reviewed the draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,

My comments are:

1)       Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent =
gap analysis document?

2)       For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and =
just want to clarify:

a)         Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network =
node and host here before the real traffic start?

b)         Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.

c)         I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, =
it could be optional?

3)       If you read our draft, we have more experience about the =
limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

4)       Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can =
also be added in section 3.

=20

Also for the draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/

Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider =
narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific =
needs, in order to get work further progressed.

=20

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether =
two groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming =
IETF meeting. To do that, we probably can:

1)       Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)       Write an independent use case document.

3)       Write an gap analysis document.

Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both =
Internet and Transport area about the next step?

=20

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

=20

Best regards,

Peng

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>He =
Pierrick,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Many =
thanks for the comments. I agree the goal of this work is to achieve no =
DPI or less DPI. With traffic characteristics provided by ICPs, network =
can better identify traffic flows of applications, without DPI (if the =
characteristics are easy to be detected by network elements) or with =
some level of DPI (if the characteristics hide deeply in the packet). =
But even with DPI involved, flow identification is not heuristic any =
more, as applications have provided traffic characteristics. Requirement =
of network resource is also information sent by =
ICPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Content =
based charging is already deployed in China. For example, Alibaba has =
the cooperation with China Mobile and China Unicom for the charge of its =
traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Peng<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>pierrick.seite@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 24, 2014 =
4:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> aeon@ietf.org; =
fanpeng@chinamobile.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Aeon] Comments and next =
step proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Peng, Hui,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks =
for having informed me about the AEON effort, which is really =
interesting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I had a =
quick look on draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc and I have a short comment =
(just to check that we are on the same page): if I understand well the =
last paragraph of the introduction, the ICP could provide its traffic =
characteristics so that it makes traffic identification easier for the =
ISP. Such statement is a bit confusing since it seems to advocate for =
DPI improvement, while, IMHO, the goal of AEON should be to get rid of =
DPI (at least to relax dependency to DPI). I think the ICP should rather =
indicate its requirement (e.g. application QoS requirements) to network =
policy control function (e.g. PCRF in 3GPP network) in order to =
negotiate network resource before the application session starts, then =
the ICP should be able to update requirements and re-negotiate resources =
during the session (but we may also want to keep DPI to update network =
resource during a session=E2=80=A6).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BTW, is =
content based charging really implemented somewhere? It seems to be a =
nightmare for the customer </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Pierrick<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, =
Peng<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
aeon@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Based on our =
operational experience, we have submitted a draft: <a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/">h=
ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a> =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The purposes of this draft are to =
encourage less DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between =
OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to review the draft and comment =
here.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I have also reviewed the draft:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statemen=
t/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</=
a>,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My comments are:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an =
independent gap analysis document?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><![endif]>For =
the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to =
clarify:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction =
between network node and host here before the real traffic =
start?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to =
us.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>I guess that it not always mandatory to apply =
Diffserv here, it could be optional?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><![endif]>If =
you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation of =
current DPI/DFI in section 3.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL =
configuration can also be added in section 3.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Also for the =
draft:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/">http=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>Here I feel that too many use cases are listed =
here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases for which we =
have strong and specific needs, in order to get work further =
progressed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>After reading the current work proposed here, we are =
wondering whether two groups of people could work together to propose a =
BoF in the coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably =
can:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Merge the PS draft into one =
document.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Write an independent use case =
document.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Write an gap analysis document.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Once all three documents have finished, we could talk =
to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about the next =
step?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks a lot for your consideration.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Peng<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
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From: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
To: "'Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)'" <eckelcu@cisco.com>, "'Tirumaleswar Reddy \(tireddy\)'" <tireddy@cisco.com>, <aeon@ietf.org>
References: <00a301cf5e20$ab403530$01c09f90$@chinamobile.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A24319560@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <CF7D190D.26D36%eckelcu@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 19:56:43 +0800
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi Charles, Tiru,

 

Thanks for your kind reply and explanation.

Let's make a next step plan after this thread discussion has concluded.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

From: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) [mailto:eckelcu@cisco.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 10:31 PM
To: Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy); Fan, Peng; aeon@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

 

Please see addition comment inline.

 

From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 at 11:08 PM
To: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

 

Hi Peng,

 

Please see inline [TR]

 

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:18 PM
To: aeon@ietf.org
Subject: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

 

Hello all,

 

Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/

The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
review the draft and comment here.

 

I have also reviewed the draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,

My comments are:

1)       Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
analysis document?

2)       For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just
want to clarify:

a)         Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node
and host here before the real traffic start?

 

[TR] The interaction between the network node and host could be before or
after the real traffic starts.

 

The flow descriptions could change over time due to changes in application
operation, and the network feedback could change as well as the network
conditions change.

 

 

b)         Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.

[TR] Req. 8 is saying that the flow characteristics signaled by the client
to the network should have protection against man-in-middle attacker
modifying the flow metadata.

 

Req 5 is about incremental deployability. Various heuristic based
mechanisms, including DPI, are being used with some success in many
networks. These should continue to work as portions of the applications and
network are enabled with the functionality proposed in AEON.

 

 

I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it could be
optional?

 

[TR] Yes, Diffserv is optional.  FYI DART WG is recently formed
(https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart) to document the limitations of
Diffserv.

 

3)       If you read our draft, we have more experience about the limitation
of current DPI/DFI in section 3.

 

[TR] Yes,
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-2.4.8 also
discusses similar problem and possible solution to address the problem.

 

4)       Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
also be added in section 3.

 

Yes, good point.

 

 

Also for the draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/

Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
needs, in order to get work further progressed.

 

[TR] Agreed, we are updating the use case draft.

 

After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether two
groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF
meeting. 

 

[TR] Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

Sounds good to me as well.

 

Cheers,

Charles

 

 

Cheers,

-Tiru

 

To do that, we probably can:

1)       Merge the PS draft into one document.

2)       Write an independent use case document.

3)       Write an gap analysis document.

Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
Internet and Transport area about the next step?

 

Thanks a lot for your consideration.

 

Best regards,

Peng


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Charles, =
Tiru,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks =
for your kind reply and explanation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Let&#8217;s make a next step =
plan after this thread discussion has concluded.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Peng<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Charles Eckel (eckelcu) [mailto:eckelcu@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Wednesday, April 23, 2014 10:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tirumaleswar Reddy =
(tireddy); Fan, Peng; aeon@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Aeon] =
Comments and next step proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Please see addition =
comment inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>&quot;Tirumaleswar Reddy =
(tireddy)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tireddy@cisco.com">tireddy@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, April 22, 2014 at 11:08 PM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;Fan, =
Peng&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com">fanpeng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step =
proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Peng,</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Please see inline =
[TR]</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Aeon [<a =
href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 =
5:18 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org">aeon@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
[Aeon] Comments and next step proposal</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Hello =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Based on our operational =
experience, we have submitted a draft: <a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/">h=
ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>The =
purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and =
propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help =
to review the draft and comment here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>I have also reviewed the =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statemen=
t/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</=
a>,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>My comments are:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Shall we =
consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap analysis =
document?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>For the =
requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just want to =
clarify:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Req. 3 and 4, =
do you expect the interaction between network node and host here before =
the real traffic start?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[TR] The interaction between =
the network node and host could be before or after the real traffic =
starts.</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>The flow descriptions could change over time due =
to changes in application operation, and the network feedback could =
change as well as the network conditions =
change.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;text-indent:-21.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Req. 5 and 8 =
are not quite clear to us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[TR] =
Req. 8 is saying that the flow characteristics signaled by the client to =
the network should have protection against man-in-middle attacker =
modifying the flow metadata.</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Req 5 is about incremental deployability. Various =
heuristic based mechanisms, including DPI, are being used with some =
success in many networks. These should continue to work as portions of =
the applications and network are enabled with the functionality proposed =
in AEON.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>I guess that it not always mandatory to apply =
Diffserv here, it could be optional?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[TR] Yes, Diffserv is optional. =
&nbsp;FYI DART WG is recently formed (</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/dart</a>) to document the limitations of =
Diffserv.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>If you read =
our draft, we have more experience about the limitation of current =
DPI/DFI in section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[TR] Yes, <a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-=
2.4.8">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases-01#section-2=
.4.8</a> also discusses similar problem and possible solution to address =
the problem.</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Analysis of =
other existing solutions like ACL configuration can also be added in =
section 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Yes, good =
point.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Also for the =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/">http=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Here I feel =
that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider narrowing down =
to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific needs, in order =
to get work further progressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[TR] Agreed, we are updating =
the use case draft.</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>After reading the current =
work proposed here, we are wondering whether two groups of people could =
work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF meeting. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[TR] Sounds like a good plan to =
me.</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Sounds good to me as =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Charles<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0cm' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Cheers,</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-Tiru</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>To do that, we probably =
can:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Merge the PS =
draft into one document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Write an =
independent use case document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'color:black'>Write an gap =
analysis document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Once all three documents have finished, we could =
talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about the next =
step?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Thanks a lot for your =
consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Peng<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></block=
quote></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01CF5FF7.51646AD0--




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From: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>
To: "BARI, FAROOQ" <fb5431@att.com>
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Cc: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Thank you, Farooq, I believe you are Mr. PCRF, thanks for your advice about
gap.
Inline please with two discussions.

2014-04-24 1:38 GMT+08:00 BARI, FAROOQ <fb5431@att.com>:

>  Thanks Hui for forwarding this thread. The Rx interface is between an
> application server in the network and a 3GPP policy server (that can
> influence IP flow=E2=80=99s assigned QoS). Currently Rx interface uses Di=
ameter to
> carry QoS needs for a session to the 3GPP network. How the application
> server becomes aware of the IP session=E2=80=99s QoS needs is application
> dependent. For example in the case of IMS SDP information carried along
> with SIP messages provides this type of information to the application
> server. In other application types it maybe some other protocol or some
> proprietary means by which the application server is able to identify
> particular IP flow=E2=80=99s QoS needs.
>
I understand that Rx can identify QoS needs, and does Rx can identify IP
sessions based on diameter signaling? can we think that will be sufficient
to identify the IP session, do we still have space to allow IETF to work on
this=EF=BC=9F


> TDF (similar to DPI) in 3GPP  is an additional tool along with Rx
> interface in this discussion where the network can identify certain servi=
ce
> types via packet inspection to provide them with necessary QoS (rather th=
an
> explicit signaling via Rx).  I do not have enough data to say whether thi=
s
> functionality is sufficient or if more is needed.
>
This two directions have only one difference that whether UE/client's
involvement is useful or not.

Thanks again for your advice

Best regards,

-Hui


>
>
> BTW I am not subscribed to aeon =E2=80=93 so I assume my response will ge=
t
> rejected from that email list J.
>
>
>
>
>
> BR,
>
>
>
> Farooq Bari, PhD
> Lead Member Technical Staff
> Standards & Industry Alliances
>
> AT&T Services, Inc.
>
>
>
> Email: farooq.bari@att.com
> Tel: +1 425 580 5526
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are AT&T property, are
> confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to whom this email is addressed. If you are not one of the named
> recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received
> this message in error, please notify the sender and delete this message
> immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, dissemination,
> forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited
>
>
>
> *From:* Hui Deng [mailto:denghui02@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:46 AM
> *To:* Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
> *Cc:* Rong Zhang; Sheng Jiang; aeon@ietf.org; Fan, Peng; BARI, FAROOQ
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>
>
> Hi Charles,
>
>
>
> Rx interface rely on application server to communicate with network
> infrastructure, but IS that sufficient and more dynamical, realtime.
>
>
>
> Will see whether Farooq could kindly help to explain it.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> -Hui
>
>
>
> 2014-04-23 22:37 GMT+08:00 Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com>:
>
> Hi Rong,
>
>
>
> I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so please correct me if I have it
> wrong. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interface provides a means for AEON =
to
> interact with the existing 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how
> to get the necessary information to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AE=
ON
> can be used for end applications to communicate this information to the
> 3GPP network for consumption over the Rx interface. In 3GPP, I do not
> believe end applications have direct access to the Rx interface. AEON fil=
ls
> that gap.
>
> As for whether the work proceeds in intarea or transport, the original
> guidance from the ADs of both areas was to start in transport. Once we ha=
ve
> the updated drafts in place, we can certainly revisit that decision.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> *From: *Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1:11 AM
> *To: *Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
> *Cc: *"gr@gsta.com" <gr@gsta.com>, "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, "Fan,
> Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>
>
>   Hi all,
>
>
>
> Speaking as the operator, I do see this trend that OTT are working with
> operators today which will help to improve the mobile internet user
> experience dramatically.
>
>
>
> I have one basic comment that current documents have n't talked about 3GP=
P
> PCRF Rx interface which will allow OTT to work with today's mobile
> operator, I will work with Sheng to write the gap analysis document by
> including how IETF work could be a complimentary to 3GPP's specificaiton.
>
>
>
> I am planning to attend next IETF meeting, and hope BoF will happen, I
> personally feel it is more Intarea scope than transport.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> -Rong ZHANG
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
>
>
> This is a real requirement from network operation perspective. Both ISPs
> and ICPs can benefit from this advance collaborative network model.
>
>
>
> Rong Zhang and I are working on an gap analysis document, which we hope t=
o
> share publically early next week.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Sheng
>
>
>
> *From:* Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fan, Peng
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM
> *To:* aeon@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> Based on our operational experience, we have submitted a draft:
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/
>
> The purposes of this draft are to encourage less DPI in the network and
> propose more cooperation between OTT and Operators. Please kindly help to
> review the draft and comment here.
>
>
>
> I have also reviewed the draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/,
>
> My comments are:
>
> 1)      Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an independent gap
> analysis document?
>
> 2)      For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7, and just
> want to clarify:
>
> a)       Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between network node
> and host here before the real traffic start?
>
> b)       Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.
>
> c)        I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv here, it
> could be optional?
>
> 3)      If you read our draft, we have more experience about the
> limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.
>
> 4)      Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configuration can
> also be added in section 3.
>
>
>
> Also for the draft:
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/
>
> Here I feel that too many use cases are listed here. You may consider
> narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have strong and specific
> needs, in order to get work further progressed.
>
>
>
> After reading the current work proposed here, we are wondering whether tw=
o
> groups of people could work together to propose a BoF in the coming IETF
> meeting. To do that, we probably can:
>
> 1)      Merge the PS draft into one document.
>
> 2)      Write an independent use case document.
>
> 3)      Write an gap analysis document.
>
> Once all three documents have finished, we could talk to ADs from both
> Internet and Transport area about the next step?
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your consideration.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Peng
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aeon mailing list
> Aeon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon
>
>
>

--e89a8fb2078ef644fd04f7cb388e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you, Farooq, I believe you are Mr. PCRF, thanks for =
your advice about gap.<div>Inline please with two discussions.</div><div><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-04-24 1:=
38 GMT+08:00 BARI, FAROOQ <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fb5431@at=
t.com" target=3D"_blank">fb5431@att.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Thanks Hui for forwarding=
 this thread. The Rx interface is between an application server in the netw=
ork and a 3GPP policy server (that can influence IP flow=E2=80=99s
 assigned QoS). Currently Rx interface uses Diameter to carry QoS needs for=
 a session to the 3GPP network. How the application server becomes aware of=
 the IP session=E2=80=99s QoS needs is application dependent. For example i=
n the case of IMS SDP information carried
 along with SIP messages provides this type of information to the applicati=
on server. In other application types it maybe some other protocol or some =
proprietary means by which the application server is able to identify parti=
cular IP flow=E2=80=99s QoS needs.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div>I understand that Rx can identify QoS needs, =
and does Rx can identify IP sessions based on diameter signaling? can we th=
ink that will be sufficient to identify the IP session, do we still have sp=
ace to allow IETF to work on this=EF=BC=9F</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D=
"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f49=
7d"> TDF (similar
 to DPI) in 3GPP =C2=A0is an additional tool along with Rx interface in thi=
s discussion where the network can identify certain service types via packe=
t inspection to provide them with necessary QoS (rather than explicit signa=
ling via Rx). =C2=A0I do not have enough data
 to say whether this functionality is sufficient or if more is needed.</spa=
n></p></div></div></blockquote><div>This two directions have only one diffe=
rence that whether UE/client&#39;s involvement is useful or not.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks again for your advice</div><div><br></div><div>B=
est regards,</div><div><br></div><div>-Hui</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BTW I am not subscribed t=
o aeon =E2=80=93 so I assume my response will get rejected from that email =
list
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d"=
>J</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BR,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">Farooq B=
ari, PhD<br>
Lead Member Technical Staff<br>
Standards &amp; Industry Alliances</span><span style=3D"color:blue"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">AT&amp;T=
 Services, Inc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">Email: <=
a href=3D"mailto:farooq.bari@att.com" target=3D"_blank">
farooq.bari@att.com</a><br>
Tel: +1 425 580 5526</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">This e-m=
ail and any files transmitted with it are AT&amp;T property, are confidenti=
al, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom=
 this email is addressed. If you are not
 one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you=
 have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete t=
his message immediately from your computer. Any other use, retention, disse=
mination, forwarding, printing,
 or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#=
1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Hui Deng=
 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:denghui02@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">denghui02=
@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Charles Eckel (eckelcu)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rong Zhang; Sheng Jiang; <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org</a>; Fan, Peng; BARI, FAROOQ</span></p><div><div =
class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></d=
iv></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Charles,=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rx interface rely on application server to communica=
te with network infrastructure, but IS that sufficient and more dynamical, =
realtime.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Will see whether Farooq could kindly help to explain=
 it.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-Hui<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2014-04-23 22:37 GMT+08:00 Charles Eckel (eckelcu) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eckelcu@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">eckelcu@cisco.com=
</a>&gt;:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Rong,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I do not claim to be a 3GPP expert, so =
please correct me if I have it wrong. The way I see it, the 3GPP Rx interfa=
ce provides a means for AEON to interact with the existing
 3GPP architecture. One problem for 3GPP is how to get the necessary inform=
ation to be conveyed over the Rx interface. AEON can be used for end applic=
ations to communicate this information to the 3GPP network for consumption =
over the Rx interface. In 3GPP,
 I do not believe end applications have direct access to the Rx interface. =
AEON fills that gap.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As for whether the work proceeds in int=
area or transport, the original guidance from the ADs of both areas was to =
start in transport. Once we have the updated drafts in place,
 we can certainly revisit that decision.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Charles<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Rong Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rzhang.ietf@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">rzhang.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 23, 2014 at 1:11 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Sheng Jiang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jiangsheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gr@gsta.com" target=3D"_blank">gr@gsta.c=
om</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@i=
etf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ae=
on@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;Fan, Peng&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fanpeng@chinamobile.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">fanpeng@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Speaking as the operator, I do see this=
 trend that OTT are working with operators today which will help to improve=
 the mobile internet user experience dramatically.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I have one basic comment that current d=
ocuments have n&#39;t talked about 3GPP PCRF Rx interface which will allow =
OTT to work with today&#39;s mobile operator, I will work with Sheng
 to write the gap analysis document by including how IETF work could be a c=
omplimentary to 3GPP&#39;s specificaiton.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I am planning to attend next IETF meeti=
ng, and hope BoF will happen, I personally feel it is more Intarea scope th=
an transport.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Cheers.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">-Rong ZHANG<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sheng=
 Jiang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jiangsheng@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">jiang=
sheng@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Hi, all,</span><span><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">This is a real require=
ment from network operation perspective. Both ISPs and ICPs can benefit fro=
m this advance collaborative
 network model.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Rong Zhang and I are w=
orking on an gap analysis document, which we hope to share publically early=
 next week.</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Best regards,</span><s=
pan><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Sheng</span><span><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 4.0pt;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 Aeon [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ae=
on-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, Peng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 22, 2014 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">aeon@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal</span><span><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Based on our operational experience, we have s=
ubmitted a draft:
<a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/" =
target=3D"_blank">
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fan-intarea-conet-ps-uc/</a> <u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>The purposes of this draft are to encourage le=
ss DPI in the network and propose more cooperation between OTT and Operator=
s. Please kindly
 help to review the draft and comment here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I have also reviewed the draft:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/" target=3D"_blank">http://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-eckel-aeon-problem-statement/</a>,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>My comments are:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">1)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Shall we consider to split the section 4 into an indepe=
ndent gap analysis document?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">2)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">For the requirements section, we agree Req. 1, 2, and 7=
, and just want to clarify:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">a)</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Req. 3 and 4, do you expect the interaction between net=
work node and host here before the real traffic start?<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>

<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">b)</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Req. 5 and 8 are not quite clear to us.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:42.0pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">c)</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">I guess that it not always mandatory to apply Diffserv =
here, it could be optional?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">3)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">If you read our draft, we have more experience about th=
e limitation of current DPI/DFI in section 3.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">4)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Analysis of other existing solutions like ACL configura=
tion can also be added in section 3.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Also for the draft:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/" target=3D"_blank">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-eckel-aeon-use-cases/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Here I feel that too many use cases are listed=
 here. You may consider narrowing down to a few use cases for which we have=
 strong and specific
 needs, in order to get work further progressed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>After reading the current work proposed here, =
we are wondering whether two groups of people could work together to propos=
e a BoF in the
 coming IETF meeting. To do that, we probably can:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">1)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Merge the PS draft into one document.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">2)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Write an independent use case document.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">3)</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.0pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">Write an gap analysis document.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Once all three documents have finished, we cou=
ld talk to ADs from both Internet and Transport area about the next step?<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Thanks a lot for your consideration.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Peng<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Aeon mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Aeon@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Aeon@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aeon</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--e89a8fb2078ef644fd04f7cb388e--


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Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "pierrick.seite@orange.com" <pierrick.seite@orange.com>, "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 02:25:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" <tireddy@cisco.com>
To: Hui Deng <denghui02@gmail.com>, "BARI, FAROOQ" <fb5431@att.com>
Thread-Topic: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 10:24:15 +0000
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Cc: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>, Rong Zhang <rzhang.ietf@gmail.com>, "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>, "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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From nobody Sun Apr 27 02:17:22 2014
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From: "Fan, Peng" <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>
To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, <pierrick.seite@orange.com>, <aeon@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal
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Hi Linda,

=20

Thanks for the question. The data packets are not attached with some =
identifiers. We are thinking that current methods for content based =
charging are not enough to meet operational needs. That is why we need =
to have this work discussed and started, and that is also something we =
need to identify in the gap analysis.

=20

Best regards,

Peng

=20

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 6:42 AM
To: Fan, Peng; pierrick.seite@orange.com; aeon@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Aeon] Comments and next step proposal

=20

Peng,=20

=20

Questions inserted below:=20

=20

From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng

=20

Content based charging is already deployed in China. For example, =
Alibaba has the cooperation with China Mobile and China Unicom for the =
charge of its traffic.

=20

[Linda] is the charging based on total traffic volume? Or is it based on =
specific applications? Will Alibaba agree to attach some identifier of =
their specific application to their data packets?=20

=20

Thanks,=20

Linda=20

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Linda,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks =
for the question. The data packets are not attached with some =
identifiers. We are thinking that current methods for content based =
charging are not enough to meet operational needs. That is why we need =
to have this work discussed and started, and that is also something we =
need to identify in the gap analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Peng<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
April 25, 2014 6:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fan, Peng; =
pierrick.seite@orange.com; aeon@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Aeon] =
Comments and next step proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Peng, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Questions inserted below: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fan, =
Peng</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Content =
based charging is already deployed in China. For example, Alibaba has =
the cooperation with China Mobile and China Unicom for the charge of its =
traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[Linda] =
is the charging based on total traffic volume? Or is it based on =
specific applications? Will Alibaba agree to attach some identifier of =
their specific application to their data packets? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Linda <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></di=
v></body></html>
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Subject: [Aeon] COllaborative NETwork vs AEON?
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--001a11c2d26ce400fd04f806b922
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hello all,

I have been observing the comments here, it seems that some operators are
discussing the current problems about COllaborative NETwork and how current
3GPP Rx is not sufficient, and also some requirements and gap analysis.

But for Aeon's case, we haven't seen any operators illustrating how they
are similarl between COllaborative NETwork and AEON's problem. Can anybody
from AEON kindly help to elaborate more here?

cheers,

Rong Zhang

--001a11c2d26ce400fd04f806b922
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello all,</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>I have been obs=
erving the comments here, it seems that some operators are discussing the c=
urrent problems about COllaborative NETwork and how current 3GPP Rx is not =
sufficient, and also some requirements and gap analysis.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><div>But for Aeon&#39;s case, we haven&#39;t seen any oper=
ators illustrating how they are similarl between COllaborative NETwork and =
AEON&#39;s problem. Can anybody from AEON kindly help to=C2=A0elaborate mor=
e here?</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><div>cheers,</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Rong Zhang</div></=
div>

--001a11c2d26ce400fd04f806b922--

