From magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Mon Sep 3 23:37:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A23921F849C for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:37:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FPQ34kbF6Qgi for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E796C21F84A0 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:37:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7fea6d000002ccb-77-5045a1a33de8 Received: from esessmw0191.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 25.81.11467.3A1A5405; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 08:37:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0191.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.85) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.264.1; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 08:37:22 +0200 Message-ID: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 08:37:22 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "avtext@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHJMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvre7iha4BBlcOq1h8vHeD1YHRY8mS n0wBjFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGX+//mYruM9acXDNPNYGxicsXYycHBICJhIfrq1nhrDFJC7c W8/WxcjFISRwilFi944trBDOMkaJnrenmUCqeAU0Jf7+WsMGYrMIqEjMaFrKCGKzCVhI3PzR CBYXFQiU+Lb1OCtEvaDEyZkQ20QE1CXuTL8AViMsoCCx5cVroF4OoM2SErcPpICEmQX0JKZc bWGEsOUlmrfOBjtOSEBboqGpg3UCI/8sJFNnIWmZhaRlASPzKkbh3MTMnPRyQ73Uoszk4uL8 PL3i1E2MwDA7uOW37g7GU+dEDjFKc7AoifNyJe33FxJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp 1cCocMDB5JO7Te/Nub0LvFNrGzvqynyMGx8wV6/8n33B7cRa5cCkme9+2Qj73e7ZXCdnIvA5 apWM0bYzFUvKr3rfcD+cWag94fOHs2+Smu+kbfnss+prSa7Ykx/707fO6y+Ukry6yiw8mKck iPmGyyWtKG2BF038n95G967anT1N+FyrTO+23E4lluKMREMt5qLiRAD5mGR7AQIAAA== Subject: [avtext] WG last call on changes X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 06:37:32 -0000 WG, This is a 2 week last call on the changes as result of discussion with the IESG. Please provide any comments no later than the 18th of September. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-splicing-for-rtp/ Cheers Magnus Westerlund WG chair and document shepherd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From ron.even.tlv@gmail.com Tue Sep 4 02:02:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F7221F8484 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 02:02:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id otx6tXNR+HRZ for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-f44.google.com (mail-bk0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783CC21F84F3 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bkty12 with SMTP id y12so2560098bkt.31 for ; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 02:02:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language; bh=Cnwxmh6NWVS7I1EBebqW+0CMoliGDJR8ieYUXH4rnXY=; b=xlPhnEjhKC31UKzoFGapJ2V7ofmcfI2Qla2oXe7s2EphCtPwGLlCCyBX6d4+xzHz1g UjBDXkib267fOvo40IyEKYMSjqKZkJOwv2qKEoyKNY4tYLIrFEn6xShPAfc/82zE7tWc 2sGmrKxF0aGldl0ppW24nd9BZntp+NVphWgq12CAv0zTZIqnaMz5r64pzeSVSWBe+dTY rFM1a60s7b296U8sR9pzGEP6PMBVMlXV2mA+PTziZSRwmZBc64WNlIyVx7346dLojEP6 bUSL78PGv+wOJN5wVp9fVWfFoTSfv/rK30xMoNfaRX67h7YOOc5Wxy6qn1wQfJiBhRz1 uL6g== Received: by 10.205.128.141 with SMTP id he13mr8079774bkc.112.1346749377352; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 02:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-188-119.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.188.119]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ht18sm9622287bkc.16.2012.09.04.02.02.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 04 Sep 2012 02:02:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Magnus Westerlund'" , References: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 12:01:31 +0200 Message-ID: <00b501cd8a84$48f84a00$dae8de00$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLBHoThuQ2o8cvSxDT2ZbPBKKoogpWSy19g Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [avtext] WG last call on changes X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:02:59 -0000 Hi, I am OK with the changes Roni Even -----Original Message----- From: avtext-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Magnus Westerlund Sent: 04 September, 2012 8:37 AM To: avtext@ietf.org Subject: [avtext] WG last call on changes WG, This is a 2 week last call on the changes as result of discussion with = the IESG. Please provide any comments no later than the 18th of September. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-splicing-for-rtp/ Cheers Magnus Westerlund WG chair and document shepherd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ avtext mailing list avtext@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext From csp@csperkins.org Tue Sep 4 06:23:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400E021F865D for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 06:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7mm3ZHUsdEsN for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 06:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anchor-msapost-2.mail.demon.net (anchor-msapost-2.mail.demon.net [195.173.77.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8214021F8644 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2012 06:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mangole.dcs.gla.ac.uk ([130.209.247.112]) by anchor-post-2.mail.demon.net with esmtpsa (AUTH csperkins-dwh) (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) id 1T8t6D-0002H1-kj; Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:23:25 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:23:24 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> To: Magnus Westerlund X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] WG last call on changes X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:23:27 -0000 Magnus, On 4 Sep 2012, at 07:37, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > This is a 2 week last call on the changes as result of discussion with > the IESG. Please provide any comments no later than the 18th of = September. >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-splicing-for-rtp/ I have reviewed the diff between the -07 and -09 versions of this draft = (I believe this shows the changes as a result of the IESG review). The = changes made look okay to me. Colin --=20 Colin Perkins http://csperkins.org/ From bo.burman@ericsson.com Fri Sep 14 06:54:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C037B21F8528 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 06:54:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id olSfMcTMlOpC for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 06:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD97221F84F9 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 06:54:25 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f046d00000644c-72-505337103252 Received: from esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 42.21.25676.01733505; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:54:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSCMS0361.eemea.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.244]) by esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se ([10.2.3.53]) with mapi; Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:54:24 +0200 From: Bo Burman To: Glen Zorn Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:54:22 +0200 Thread-Topic: [avtext] Comments on draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates-05 Thread-Index: Ac1SwoRaYZfzkyE4SZKOYw5BwupgJg/u3sFQ Message-ID: <05F760EF51FA6A4F804F9759C239313A45E91683BC@ESESSCMS0361.eemea.ericsson.se> References: <4FE17EEB.5000705@ericsson.com> <1340499289.5506.18.camel@gwz-laptop> <4FE845FA.4040909@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE845FA.4040909@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvra6AeXCAwf8P/BYf791gtVg/+RKL A5PHzll32T2WLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJWx5f1b1oJfdhVL9qU1MN7U7WLk5JAQMJF4 +f0oM4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBU4wSS56+ZYJw5jJKLJjyiBGkik1AQ2L+jrtgtoiAksTGS/fY QWxmgViJlsMPweIsAqoSR+YsAbOFBbwlbu5ZxA5R7yOxsnsyC4RtJDHt/l4mEJtXIFzi2rF9 YPVCAsUS37tbweKcAjoS8678B7MZBWQl7n+/xwKxS1zi1pP5TBBXC0gs2XMe6gNRiZeP/7FC 1MtInFr0nxWiXk/ixtQpbBC2tsSyha+ZIfYKSpyc+YRlAqPYLCRjZyFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsY hXMTM3PSy430Uosyk4uL8/P0ilM3MQJj5+CW36o7GO+cEznEKM3BoiTOa711j7+QQHpiSWp2 ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGRrZapifPKv5ZJcRUvGPPyOz+KCT2pPn3j/UJuofmpy5xeXb1 cKTA0bDcV2Wb1bTCe42Y589j2rWht7ffbTr3dbYZ23XEYjzsd1v1vmCbKx6eckCiQiuWjzOb KYV1MsN0rdPanXNnir3XvXdr9+EPqy+43nlTuUlhbexKTg4jBs8lj5awHk+4qsRSnJFoqMVc VJwIAJ867ZFrAgAA Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] Comments on draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates-05 X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:54:27 -0000 Hi, I too have now reviewed -05, taking Magnus' comments into account. In section 3.2.1, Table 2, I believe it is worth pointing out more explicit= ly that while the sender side RTP TS is set using the described differentia= l method, the Transit calculation (for the receiver side) is using the non-= differential approach with straight mapping of RTP TS to estimated capture = time, which will result in an incorrect estimate and also becomes visible a= s false Jitter. I specifically agree to Magnus' comments about the start_offset calculation= in -05 is incorrect, and that it would be useful with another Table, using= same data as Table 2 and 3, but based on the (corrected) suggested formula= s in 4.2 and 4.3. A tentative Table 4 should then, in my view, look something like +-------+-------+-----------+---------+---------+--------+----------+ | Capt. | Clock | RTP | Arrival | Transit | Jitter | Average | | time | rate | timestamp | time | | | jitter | +-------+-------+-----------+---------+---------+--------+----------+ | 0 | 8000 | 0 | 0.1 | 800 | | | | 0.02 | 8000 | 160 | 0.12 | 800 | 0 | 0 | | 0.04 | 8000 | 320 | 0.14 | 800 | 0 | 0 | | 0.06 | 8000 | 480 | 0.16 | 800 | 0 | 0 | | 0.08 | 16000 | 640 | 0.18 | 1600 | 0 | 0 | | 0.1 | 16000 | 960 | 0.2 | 1600 | 0 | 0 | | 0.12 | 16000 | 1280 | 0.22 | 1600 | 0 | 0 | | 0.14 | 8000 | 1600 | 0.24 | 320 | 0 | 0 | | 0.16 | 8000 | 1760 | 0.26 | 320 | 0 | 0 | +-------+-------+-----------+---------+---------+--------+----------+ For your guidance, failing to update start_offset with previous value, befo= re accounting for Magnus' comment, would instead yield this (incorrect) tab= le: +-------+-------+-----------+---------+---------+--------+----------+ | Capt. | Clock | RTP | Arrival | Transit | Jitter | Average | | time | rate | timestamp | time | | | jitter | +-------+-------+-----------+---------+---------+--------+----------+ | 0 | 8000 | 0 | 0.1 | 800 | | | | 0.02 | 8000 | 160 | 0.12 | 800 | 0 | 0 | | 0.04 | 8000 | 320 | 0.14 | 800 | 0 | 0 | | 0.06 | 8000 | 480 | 0.16 | 800 | 0 | 0 | | 0.08 | 16000 | 640 | 0.18 | 1600 | 0 | 0 | | 0.1 | 16000 | 960 | 0.2 | 1600 | 0 | 0 | | 0.12 | 16000 | 1280 | 0.22 | 1600 | 0 | 0 | | 0.14 | 8000 | 960 | 0.24 | 960 | 640 | 40 | | 0.16 | 8000 | 1120 | 0.26 | 960 | 0 | 38 | +-------+-------+-----------+---------+---------+--------+----------+ Cheers, Bo Burman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7141311 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949021 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: bo.burman@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 -----Original Message----- From: avtext-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Magnus Westerlund Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:06 PM To: Glen Zorn Cc: avtext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [avtext] Comments on draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates-05 On 2012-06-24 02:54, Glen Zorn wrote: > On Wed, 2012-06-20 at 09:42 +0200, Magnus Westerlund wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have reviewed the draft and found some significant issues that I=20 >> think should be addressed prior to a WG last call. >> >> 1. Section 4.1: The RTP extension defined in Perkins & Schierl=20 >> [RFC6051] MAY be used to accelerate the synchronization. >> >> I would suggest that you change this to: >> >> The RTP header extension defined in "Rapid Synchronisation of RTP Flows" >> [RFC6051] MAY be used to accelerate the synchronization. >> >> That tells the reader more about which type of extension and what it=20 >> is for than the previous formulation. >=20 > The "Perkins & Schierl" construct was an attempt to avoid the typical=20 > practice of writing something like "[RFC6051] defines...", which is=20 > abominable. However, reproducing the title of a referenced document=20 > is even worse stylistically. How does the existing text not tell the=20 > reader what the extension is for? We are at least in agreement that just an RFC number is insufficient. I hav= e to say that I am currently not confused by the old sentence due to it con= taining sufficient context to determine which specification it is without r= emembering all the RFC numbers. I do say that my proposal can be improved s= ignificantly when it comes to removing redundancy and make it more readable= . That it is horribly stylistically I don't agree with, and I think the ben= efit in many cases warrants such an approach. Take this as a suggestion from me. >=20 >> >> 2. Section 4.2: I found one sever error in the formula: >> >> First: >> start_offset =3D (capture_time - capture_start) >> * previous_clock_rate >> >> This is missing to add the original start_offset to the new offset=20 >> calculated. Thus the start_offset calculation should be: >> >> start_offset =3D (capture_time - capture_start) >> * previous_clock_rate + start_offset >=20 > I'm not sure I understand. By "original start offset", do you mean=20 > the initial vale of the start_offset variable? That is zero, so I=20 > don't see how it helps to add it in every time, so it must be something e= lse? Yes, the first time you switch it will be zero. The next time it will be no= n-zero and must be included to avoid erronous values after a second switch. >=20 >> >> >> 3. Section 4.2: Then I think the timestamp calculation should make=20 >> clear where the initial random offset is to be added. >=20 > The first paragraph of the section says: >=20 > An RTP Sender with RTCP turned off (i.e. by setting the RS and RR > bandwidth modifiers [RFC3556] to 0) SHOULD use a different SSRC for > each different clock rate but MAY use different clock rates on the > same SSRC as long as _the RTP timestamp without the random offset=20 > is calculated_ > as explained below[...] >=20 Yes, but I think we can improve this by including the random offset into th= e calculation so they don't do it in the wrong step with the wrong result. = Either initially or at the end works. Doing it somewhere in the middle is n= ot a good idea. >=20 >> And to my understanding >> it needs to be added in the timestamp formula which thus should read: >> >> timestamp =3D (capture_time - capture_start) * clock_rate >> + start_offset + random_initial_offset >> >> Or as an alternative, set the initial values, i.e: >> start_offset =3D 0 >> >> to >> >> start_offset =3D random_initial_offset' >=20 > ... --=20 Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 F=E4r=F6gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ avtext mailing list avtext@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext From abegen@cisco.com Mon Sep 17 10:55:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0518C21F8433 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hVa97DGoG41K for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FADF21E8034 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:55:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1457; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1347904556; x=1349114156; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=gI6LSelG0TnSzrwXsazh5pyY4QRkKSdXSWRfKvwAZQA=; b=PZ+iMxzEiOF6R/ACpBAnQrH+4YGz6PqqcH1FExtxER5WdHugy/1kjA69 WiA4aZapOwFcVYm9pLK8jHUyvALyMwHQHk7ozQauzaT14xLDHnsFBNlhb UnyhJZIXlXTvn6sLj7dnLzAum5hy0BfDa2t+QHWKnstzQy+Z0dwR7Z/17 Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAKJjV1CtJV2d/2dsb2JhbABEgm65M4EHgiABAQEEAQEBDwEnNBcGAQgRAwECHzcLGwEBBQMCBBMih14BCpkegSife4shhmgDlWKBFI0kgWmCZoIX X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,437,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="122463358" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2012 17:55:55 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q8HHtt3Q022932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:55:55 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:55:55 -0500 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams Thread-Index: AQHNkX//TyTi1wyzUUm4ClYuCMrGmZeO6R+A Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:55:54 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <505188C7.1080805@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.86.250.247] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19188.004 x-tm-as-result: No--31.108100-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [avtext] FW: [MMUSIC] WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:55:57 -0000 As you will recall, the RTP duplication draft has been adopted by avtext. Now, mmusic is polling to adopt the two drafts below which are required for this work. Could you please raise your support in the mmusic list? Thanks. -acbegen -----Original Message----- From: "Miguel com>" Date: Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:18 AM To: "mmusic@ietf.org" , Flemming Andreasen Subject: [MMUSIC] WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams >At the last IETF meeting we had presentation of two drafts, both >related to the expression of duplicated streams in SDP. We noticed >there was support to progress these drafts. These drafts are >complementary to work going on in AVTEXT, where there is a normative >dependency. > >These are the documents: > >http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping/ >http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving/ > >We would like to poll the working group for adopting these two >documents as WG items, once we get approved milestones. > >Please indicate whether you support or not this new work within the >next 5 working days. > >Flemming and Miguel (co-chairs). > >/Miguel >--=20 >Miguel A. Garcia >+34-91-339-3608 >Ericsson Spain > >_______________________________________________ >mmusic mailing list >mmusic@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic From petithug@acm.org Wed Sep 26 08:56:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E4E21F84A2 for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2012 08:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.206, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DxwhAELi6ZpC for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2012 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B5921F849D for ; Wed, 26 Sep 2012 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:9:4b80:32:c0ce:8b31:21b1:8d86] (unknown [IPv6:2601:9:4b80:32:c0ce:8b31:21b1:8d86]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 984BE20480; Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:56:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <50632594.6020109@acm.org> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 08:56:04 -0700 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.7) Gecko/20120922 Icedove/10.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund References: <4FE17EEB.5000705@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE17EEB.5000705@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates@tools.ietf.org, "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] Comments on draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates-05 X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:56:10 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I apologize for the time it took me to answer this. On 06/20/2012 12:42 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > I have reviewed the draft and found some significant issues that I think > should be addressed prior to a WG last call. > [...] > > 2. Section 4.2: I found one sever error in the formula: > > First: start_offset = (capture_time - capture_start) * previous_clock_rate > > This is missing to add the original start_offset to the new offset > calculated. Thus the start_offset calculation should be: > > start_offset = (capture_time - capture_start) * previous_clock_rate + > start_offset Agreed. I would suggest to adopt the more compact and readable formula below: start_offset += (capture_time - capture_start) * previous_clock_rate > > > 3. Section 4.2: Then I think the timestamp calculation should make clear > where the initial random offset is to be added. And to my understanding it > needs to be added in the timestamp formula which thus should read: > > timestamp = (capture_time - capture_start) * clock_rate + start_offset + > random_initial_offset > > Or as an alternative, set the initial values, i.e: start_offset = 0 > > to > > start_offset = random_initial_offset' I slightly prefer the current text that does not use the random offset, but if the random offset has to be added to the formula, I prefer to see it as the line just above. Note that the text in the first paragraph of 4.2 needs also to be modified in this case (i.e. we need to remove "without the random offset"). > > > And that works to. > > 4. Section 4.3: > > I think one has to clarify that "j" is the newer arrival compared to "i" > which is the previous arrival. This is the same usage of "j" and "i" than in RFC 3550, that does not define them either, without generating any complaints over the years. People who successfully implemented RFC 3550 should not have any issue figuring that out. > > 5. Section 4.3: For interoperability with legacy RTP implementations, an > RTP receiver MAY use the information in two consecutive SR packets to > calculate the clock rate used, i.e. if Ni is the NTP timestamp for the SR > packet i, Ri the RTP timestamp for the SR packet i and Nj and Rj the NTP > timestamp and RTP timestamp for the previous SR packet j, then the clock > rate can be guessed as the closest to (Ri - Rj) / (Ni - Nj). > > Frankly, I don't see how this is correct or which information around the > used clock rate that you try to derive. I have to assume that you know the > previous RTP clock rate. But you have failed to receive any new RTP packets > so the receiver doesn't yet know which clock rate is used. Lets assume that > you have three clock rates in use in this RTP session, lets say 32k, 16k > and 8k. You where running at 32k. Applying the above formula when the > switch was very close before sending the second SR packet to 8k. Then you > could plug in values like the following: > > Ri = 400000 Ni = 0 > > Switch happens 3.8 seconds into this interval Rj = 400000 + 121600 + 1600 = > 523200 Nj = 4.0 s > > Then the above formula yields a value of = (400000 - 523200) / (0 - 4) = > 30800 > > That says you only that a switch to a lower than current clock rate has > happened. Not which of them. This formula will only yield a correct result > when there are no switches in between the two SR used to calculate the > value. > > To my understanding in the presence of packet loss you require both a RTP > packet indicating the current payload type and an RTCP SR or equivalent > time sync info to determine correctly where the switch happened (assuming a > correct monotonically increasing timestamp space). OK, that was an attempt to do something in that case but if that does not work then I suggest to remove the whole paragraph. > > 6. I wonder if not this specification should clarify the unclarity > regarding monotonically increasing RTP timestamp values that this is > required. Not only the clock one derives it from. And that put into section > 4. If I understand you correctly, this draft would now say that from now on, the clock AND the RTP timestamp must increase monotonically. I am OK with this, but do you have some text to suggest we can add? > > 7. Section 4. I think Section 4 should contain the equivalent of table 2 > and 3 to provide what values that the formulas in 4.2 and 4.3 provides. Good idea, the Table 4 proposed by Bo Burman looks fine to me. - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJQYyWRAAoJECnERZXWan7Eul8QAOkAvfs3XufyKNOM8WAbZ61/ z/mJJxMW1V7t0xiYXtz7DIifq0JWLhBDyM0u+5FBB5fGcmatU6NyBD8Jfb1+6FEX ausOmNvaHkG7lyNKwMAnTyfIlbrJRSX97EhuJp3GAEovTLkjn1dulvtV3hMot+WY 7KRI+gQw+x/cBUKJ/0eK3BU2kJcgcLqvIppX04Wv62PtTSBSWzrtDgCBZx8yftKs StoErV/N0cXt1YcKtXiswOF0IVsNF4+OnP7p36L7HdCtg0KF1T2aY35BGZ/yK6d3 kAch3M5D7VdpRNZgN8ofRUq/1k5XWwnIKr0E3pxhztQG8455QY+VOY6aDpv/XThV ZtcPY5Fm9LPVyIcZmWeHa2EcJsc5ZTaKkj12ZP3fRDGpYd8XcQ31TpUlvjohxf3t W84VGcLnVnRPS+tuzLeSC+VOFClq6O1fBR+XJjE/8BXEgXOUqSYxC/N2pe/VTO5H /G+PDEyFw/Jfg3m3ADz5O8MTrO1sZ0hqPACFKBPopWdmPldDR9OZd4yqKmBIQoJc utzxvSwmSWLDk/AWYLHD7vvk1qxe05IN+3rrrNbtKLTPFvvB1tLmFB5XCtDK2saM bJ9ubmPwOZgE2gAaN89/d8KD4h93OCpSMTKTS+gljinalPgEs1gHKf9pFupaNuBR +8bB4IuoYMQxyjhmvaqo =7wPy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fandreas@cisco.com Fri Sep 28 06:16:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6077521F85A8; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GGgwuEH4f839; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B68721F859A; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:16:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4933; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1348838168; x=1350047768; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=VPKxToHGv0Fx2fqaZmeOu7QbFOuDYiBge51NGwhKTmE=; b=bfxssXHh0lG1arSIzbSv6wMNpmcPJWzadIULhO4+tr2JDUYVV+3jhYMC 6cgr2nDZyy1ZiB14qh3dU243vipKJegRPcGF6zbq8Kq6Ip+6kOI6RDxMO zwFnImVd7A0ADoM9Wp0TxseXTBNP1jaVxOvz+vYiOqgVn4cLIYCmC5qu4 E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgMFAE2iZVCtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABFi2qyJoEIgiABAQEEEgFlAQwEDw0DAQIKFg8JAwIBAgE7AggGAQwBBQIBAR6HYwuXZaAqixiGJwOVaYEVjS2BaYMD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,502,1344211200"; d="scan'208,217";a="126353757" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2012 13:16:08 +0000 Received: from rtp-fandreas-8715.cisco.com (rtp-fandreas-8715.cisco.com [10.117.7.86]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q8SDG6dB029467; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:16:07 GMT Message-ID: <5065A316.4010503@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:16:06 -0400 From: Flemming Andreasen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/15.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmusic , "avtext@ietf.org" References: <505188C7.1080805@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <505188C7.1080805@ericsson.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <505188C7.1080805@ericsson.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090006080205080205050206" Cc: "Miguel A. Garcia" , draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving@tools.ietf.org, draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication@tools.ietf.org Subject: [avtext] Fwd: WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:16:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090006080205080205050206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MMUSIC and AVTEXT folks It is our understanding that AVTEXT is conducting work that depends on the below two drafts, and hence MMUSIC is considering adopting them as WG items. The MMUSIC chairs issued a WG poll for adoption of the drafts, however we have not received much feedback on this. Please take a minute to indicate if you are in favor of (or against) adopting these drafts as MMUSIC WG items. Thanks -- Flemming & Miguel (MMUSIC co-chairs). -------- Original Message -------- Subject: WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:18:31 +0200 From: Miguel A. Garcia To: mmusic , Flemming Andreasen At the last IETF meeting we had presentation of two drafts, both related to the expression of duplicated streams in SDP. We noticed there was support to progress these drafts. These drafts are complementary to work going on in AVTEXT, where there is a normative dependency. These are the documents: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving/ We would like to poll the working group for adopting these two documents as WG items, once we get approved milestones. Please indicate whether you support or not this new work within the next 5 working days. Flemming and Miguel (co-chairs). /Miguel -- Miguel A. Garcia +34-91-339-3608 Ericsson Spain . --------------090006080205080205050206 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MMUSIC and AVTEXT folks

It is our understanding that AVTEXT is conducting work that depends on the below two drafts, and hence MMUSIC is considering adopting them as WG items. The MMUSIC chairs issued a WG poll for adoption of the drafts, however we have not received much feedback on this. Please take a minute to indicate if you are in favor of (or against) adopting these drafts as MMUSIC WG items.

Thanks

-- Flemming & Miguel (MMUSIC co-chairs).


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:18:31 +0200
From: Miguel A. Garcia <Miguel.A.Garcia@ericsson.com>
To: mmusic <mmusic@ietf.org>, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> 


At the last IETF meeting we had presentation of two drafts, both
related to the expression of duplicated streams in SDP. We noticed
there was support to progress these drafts. These drafts are
complementary to work going on in AVTEXT, where there is a normative
dependency.

These are the documents:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping/
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving/

We would like to poll the working group for adopting these two
documents as WG items, once we get approved milestones.

Please indicate whether you support or not this new work within the
next 5 working days.

Flemming and Miguel (co-chairs).

/Miguel
-- 
Miguel A. Garcia
+34-91-339-3608
Ericsson Spain

.



--------------090006080205080205050206-- From fluffy@cisco.com Fri Sep 28 07:36:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A20D21F8613; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 07:36:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9y3IHxfDLGA; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 07:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C8DA21F8610; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 07:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1976; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1348843018; x=1350052618; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=r5kzzzYEZPXLxqiMjdDROWL61GlNmQzPGkNheS46zY4=; b=KU33J1bdnka3RsaTNuT0ekK990nKM/zLdApij1xUyPX6WHfOb2j/vm3H 06+rNk8bAqDWmisc+l6rpT/M5784G+C66mt+msdr5huo0XKiJmw4bXkxF 7z0espLsO3okmJk01MQtSdiYFD0gyJ/yzpSWR7k9mEWemBEn3ATRPSKzO s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EADG1ZVCtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABFvg6BCIIgAQEBAwEBAQEPAVsLBQcEAgEIEQMBAi8nCx0IAgQBDQUih10GC5dsoCyLGIVHYAOII41GgRWNLYFpgmeCFw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,502,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="126161810" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2012 14:36:55 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com [173.37.183.86]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q8SEataO022793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:36:55 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.26]) by xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com ([173.37.183.86]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:36:55 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: mmusic , "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams Thread-Index: AQHNnYa0f/mVMI4BXkeZfMxNX63+bA== Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:36:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <505188C7.1080805@ericsson.com> <5065A316.4010503@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5065A316.4010503@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.20.249.167] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19216.004 x-tm-as-result: No--43.176900-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <5C7B28271F685A4E9901869148B305EF@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] [MMUSIC] WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:36:59 -0000 I'm in favor of adopting these. They are simple and solve the problem. On Sep 28, 2012, at 7:16 AM, Flemming Andreasen wrote: > MMUSIC and AVTEXT folks >=20 > It is our understanding that AVTEXT is conducting work that depends on th= e below two drafts, and hence MMUSIC is considering adopting them as WG ite= ms. The MMUSIC chairs issued a WG poll for adoption of the drafts, however = we have not received much feedback on this. Please take a minute to indicat= e if you are in favor of (or against) adopting these drafts as MMUSIC WG it= ems.=20 >=20 > Thanks=20 >=20 > -- Flemming & Miguel (MMUSIC co-chairs).=20 >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:18:31 +0200 > From: Miguel A. Garcia > To: mmusic , Flemming Andreasen >=20 > At the last IETF meeting we had presentation of two drafts, both > related to the expression of duplicated streams in SDP. We noticed > there was support to progress these drafts. These drafts are > complementary to work going on in AVTEXT, where there is a normative > dependency. >=20 > These are the documents: >=20 >=20 > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping/ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving/ >=20 >=20 > We would like to poll the working group for adopting these two > documents as WG items, once we get approved milestones. >=20 > Please indicate whether you support or not this new work within the > next 5 working days. >=20 > Flemming and Miguel (co-chairs). >=20 > /Miguel > --=20 > Miguel A. Garcia > +34-91-339-3608 > Ericsson Spain >=20 > . >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic From daveoran@orandom.net Fri Sep 28 09:01:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534EC21F8516; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xE9PHU-5-ezY; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spark.crystalorb.net (spark.crystalorb.net [IPv6:2001:470:d:21b:3c00::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7B121F8471; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stealth-10-32-245-146.cisco.com (c-66-31-41-8.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [66.31.41.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by spark.crystalorb.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id q8SG16cj008491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:01:08 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.1 \(1498\)) From: David R Oran In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:00:59 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <97905CD5-CDAE-4D08-AF5B-941C5F4DC703@orandom.net> References: <505188C7.1080805@ericsson.com> <5065A316.4010503@cisco.com> To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1498) Cc: "draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping@tools.ietf.org" , "avtext@ietf.org" , mmusic , "draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] [MMUSIC] WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:01:07 -0000 +1 DaveO On Sep 28, 2012, at 10:36 AM, "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" = wrote: >=20 > I'm in favor of adopting these. They are simple and solve the problem. >=20 >=20 > On Sep 28, 2012, at 7:16 AM, Flemming Andreasen = wrote: >=20 >> MMUSIC and AVTEXT folks >>=20 >> It is our understanding that AVTEXT is conducting work that depends = on the below two drafts, and hence MMUSIC is considering adopting them = as WG items. The MMUSIC chairs issued a WG poll for adoption of the = drafts, however we have not received much feedback on this. Please take = a minute to indicate if you are in favor of (or against) adopting these = drafts as MMUSIC WG items.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks=20 >>=20 >> -- Flemming & Miguel (MMUSIC co-chairs).=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: WG Poll for consensus on duplicated streams >> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:18:31 +0200 >> From: Miguel A. Garcia >> To: mmusic , Flemming Andreasen = >>=20 >> At the last IETF meeting we had presentation of two drafts, both >> related to the expression of duplicated streams in SDP. We noticed >> there was support to progress these drafts. These drafts are >> complementary to work going on in AVTEXT, where there is a normative >> dependency. >>=20 >> These are the documents: >>=20 >>=20 >> = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-redundancy-grouping/ >> = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-begen-mmusic-temporal-interleaving/ >>=20 >>=20 >> We would like to poll the working group for adopting these two >> documents as WG items, once we get approved milestones. >>=20 >> Please indicate whether you support or not this new work within the >> next 5 working days. >>=20 >> Flemming and Miguel (co-chairs). >>=20 >> /Miguel >> --=20 >> Miguel A. Garcia >> +34-91-339-3608 >> Ericsson Spain >>=20 >> . >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mmusic mailing list >> mmusic@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >=20 > _______________________________________________ > avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext From magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Sun Sep 30 23:53:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAEB21F8559 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:53:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SkFKrM20UoEi for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19E621F84E4 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:53:33 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7fea6d000002ccb-ef-50693deb751f Received: from esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 86.09.11467.BED39605; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:53:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:53:31 +0200 Message-ID: <50693DE9.10206@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:53:29 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/15.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund References: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <5045A1A2.80501@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvre5r28wAgzfTTSw+3rvB6sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujE0TpjMVzOKpWHp1N1MD43/OLkYODgkBE4k7Owu6GDmBTDGJ C/fWs3UxcnEICZxilNj5+wIbSEJIYBmjxO6pPiA2r4CmxNpbm9lBbBYBFYn+y4dZQGw2AQuJ mz8awepFBYIlJu3fwgJRLyhxcuYTMFtEwEzi4YT9YDXMAuoSh/ctYQSxhQV0JZZOf8sMco8Q 0Py/q+tBwpwCWhJdJ7uZIG6TlHgz+SYLRKuexJSrLYwQtrxE89bZzBBnaks0NHWwTmAUmoVk 8ywkLbOQtCxgZF7FKJybmJmTXm6ol1qUmVxcnJ+nV5y6iREYqge3/NbdwXjqnMghRmkOFiVx Xq6k/f5CAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGKVrw7T3Cm8Oivl2wHz5Kt1k4eKdy7hE 7cXqH6u6NO67m1/54Ey4xNcJClM69Hes+/3pf7X6PfV9Yhp79cWW85rpXi3/u9F+wqMN11Nb 9HnlJ1+amJaa1qb1/XXp45ZHO+v1tpYLCO8qFfxbPK/4vFKNlCcHU+OcT+a+FlEW7c+fFcVu XFXhrcRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAEmr50sjAgAA Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] WG last call on changes X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 06:53:35 -0000 WG, I will now hand this document back to the AD for continuing the publication process. Cheers Magnus On 2012-09-04 08:37, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > WG, > > This is a 2 week last call on the changes as result of discussion with > the IESG. Please provide any comments no later than the 18th of September. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-splicing-for-rtp/ > > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > WG chair and document shepherd > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext > > -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------