From internet-drafts@ietf.org Wed Oct 2 01:30:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0D121F9B7E; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:30:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.474 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.474 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.126, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hoN6o5-pc3hs; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A043421F9BAB; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:27:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.72.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20131002082742.20697.66389.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 01:27:42 -0700 Cc: avtext@ietf.org Subject: [avtext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:30:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Extensions Working = Group of the IETF. Title : Duplicating RTP Streams Author(s) : Ali Begen Colin Perkins Filename : draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2013-10-02 Abstract: Packet loss is undesirable for real-time multimedia sessions, but can occur due to congestion, or other unplanned network outages. This is especially true for IP multicast networks, where packet loss patterns can vary greatly between receivers. One technique that can be used to recover from packet loss without incurring unbounded delay for all the receivers is to duplicate the packets and send them in separate redundant streams. This document explains how Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) streams can be duplicated without breaking RTP or RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) rules. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From abegen@cisco.com Wed Oct 2 01:37:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070A911E826C for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:37:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8eiRPNxMgMF0 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E907F11E8275 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:35:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2119; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1380702938; x=1381912538; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=sTd1rxtvrMg9YWNbevmYDjuQfdAPbEBJ1tjxyalYyhg=; b=kG5wVnJg9stxciOVCt9QDyY4u8ms/FpHnU8p1sEZsJQwU2Uqglle6FDV 09/NZvXl1dsZ/jBMeBJPQfR45rvW1xnXdtnZGez35o3Z9hpMFzjAkeYZ0 a8bT+7/8Ru5jTBUE7CntAlcv7gAM/KqDdnxIGJgPItN2LyEA2lZHGP6Rs w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnMFAEbaS1KtJXHB/2dsb2JhbABYgmYhOEwGwRWBGRZtB4IlAQEBAwE6PQcLAgEZAwECCxQQMhsCCAIEEwgBh3cGAQYFvFePID6DGYEEA5kukEyDJIIq X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1017,1371081600"; d="scan'208";a="267047294" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Oct 2013 08:35:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r928Zbxr027119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 08:35:37 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 03:35:37 -0500 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHOv0mno8i2yt9QzUWEfdVseuhSEA== Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 08:35:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20131002082742.20697.19873.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.107.52] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [avtext] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:37:22 -0000 WG, This version attempts to address the WGLC comments raised in the list. Plea= se review the changes and provide feedback. > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 Thanks, -acbegen Begin forwarded message: > From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-0= 4.txt > Date: October 2, 2013 11:27:42 AM GMT+03:00 > To: "Dr. Colin Perkins" , Colin Perkins , Ali Begen >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Ali Begen and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication > Revision: 04 > Title: Duplicating RTP Streams > Creation date: 2013-10-02 > Group: avtext > Number of pages: 12 > URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avtext-rt= p-duplication-04.txt > Status: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-du= plication > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplica= tion-04 > Diff: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-avtext-rtp= -duplication-04 >=20 > Abstract: > Packet loss is undesirable for real-time multimedia sessions, but can > occur due to congestion, or other unplanned network outages. This is > especially true for IP multicast networks, where packet loss patterns > can vary greatly between receivers. One technique that can be used > to recover from packet loss without incurring unbounded delay for all > the receivers is to duplicate the packets and send them in separate > redundant streams. This document explains how Real-time Transport > Protocol (RTP) streams can be duplicated without breaking RTP or RTP > Control Protocol (RTCP) rules. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Tue Oct 8 08:16:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A7F21E80A6; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 08:16:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.334 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.334 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.266, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qopHzMk8XDyv; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 08:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223E521E818D; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 08:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.80.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20131008151646.25649.10549.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 08:16:46 -0700 Cc: avtext@ietf.org Subject: [avtext] Last Call: (Support for Multiple Clock Rates in an RTP Session) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 15:16:47 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Extensions WG (avtext) to consider the following document: - 'Support for Multiple Clock Rates in an RTP Session' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-10-22. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document clarifies the RTP specification when different clock rates are used in an RTP session. It also provides guidance on how to interoperate with legacy RTP implementations that use multiple clock rates. It updates RFC 3550. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From xiajinwei@huawei.com Tue Oct 8 20:31:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CBE11E8126 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.45 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id saWAojyU+5WD for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C8F21F9DDE for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AWP09266; 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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ling= li,

&n= bsp;

Thank y= our interest and support on this work, I just try to reactivate it soon.

&n= bsp;

The spl= icing use cases you mentioned indeed make sense, RTP Splicing document (RFC= 6828) keeps the local AD insertion as the representative use case, but it c= an also considers several other use cases, e.g., emergency information, etc. You can refer the first bullet of introd= uction section in RFC6828.

&n= bsp;

Targete= d advertising can also use the mixer defined in RFC6828 to handle RTP splic= ing, while the mixer needs to be more powerful to insert different content = for different end users simultaneously. It is an mixer implementation issue IMO.

&n= bsp;

By the = way, China Mobile also has fixed broadband network, right?

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

BR=

Jinwei<= o:p>

&n= bsp;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =B5=CB=C1= =E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng [mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.c= om]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA10=D4=C29=C8=D5 10:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xiajinwei
=B3=AD=CB=CD: avtext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [avtext] Splicing notification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification= -01

 

Hi Jinwei,

I also find this work interesting and would like to se= e it moving forward.

In particular, besides local ad substitution, have you= considered applying it to other cases, such as
1, urgent information publication (in case of typhoon, disaster, war, etc) = where the mixer could be deployed and owned by the network operator, and 2, target ad insertion based on subscriber=A1=AFs personal/group profile in= formation provided by the network operator.

I am not sure that the above cases can be addressed by= the existing proposal, though.

BR

Lingli

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: avtext-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces at ietf.org] =B4=FA= =B1=ED Jinwei Xia
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA= 4=D4=C219=C8=D5 06:29
=CA=D5= =BC=FE=C8=CB:= avtext at ietf.= org
=D6=F7= =CC=E2: Re: [avtext] Splicing= notification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01

 

Hi Roni,

Thank your support on= this work. The draft aims to provide one generic approach to carry the spl= icing related metadata to the splicer regardless of the media codec in the RTP payload.

Anybody who review th= e draft at your convenient time can show your comments to me, it is very ap= preciated.

BR

Jinwei

=B7= =A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: avtext-bounc= es at ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces at ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Roni Even
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA4=D4=C217= =C8=D5 21:54
=CA=D5= =BC=FE=C8=CB:= avtext at ietf.= org
=D6=F7= =CC=E2: [avtext] Splicing not= ification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01

Hi,

I read draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01 and think it is an impo= rtant building block for the RTP splicing topology specified in RFC6828.

It allows splicing at RTP level and not only = for MPEG2 TS (Transport streams).

I support going forward with this work

Roni Even

 

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1962A21E80DB for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 23:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AWQ80303; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 07:14:17 +0100 Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 07:14:51 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.141]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:14:42 +0800 From: Xiajinwei To: =?gb2312?B?tcvB6cDyL0xpbmdsaSBEZW5n?= Thread-Topic: [avtext] Splicing notification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01 Thread-Index: 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Lingli,=

&n= bsp;

>Tar= geted advertising can also use the mixer defined in RFC6828 to handle RTP s= plicing, while the mixer needs to be more powerful to insert different cont= ent for different end users simultaneously. It is an mixer implementation issue IMO.

> 

>[dl= l] Glad that you are also considering other cases. Would the sender-decided= /off-line time slot synchronization between the main sender and the substit= ution sender requirement be an obstacle to the flexibility of the substitutive content as desired by these cases? For= instance, both the start/end time points and the duration of the substitut= ive media maybe unpredictable to both senders in such cases. But as you sai= d, it could be an implementation issue, since the current document clearly sets the offline negotiation mec= hanism out of scopeJ

&n= bsp;

Right, = the draft aims to solve predictable event, but the unpredictable event (e.g= ., emergency information) may occur anytime, in such case, ISP just needs t= o continue the main content at the breaking point. It is out of scope of this draft.

&n= bsp;

> By the way, China Mobile = also has fixed broadband network, right?

> 

>[dl= l] Yes, we have been providing xDSL service nationwide since 2008, when Chi= na Tietong=A1=AFs public ISP department merged with China Mobile.

&n= bsp;

Very gl= ad to hear that as RTP splicing technology might be expected to be used in = IPTV environment in the fixed network IMHO.

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

BR=

Jinwei<= o:p>

&n= bsp;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =B5=CB=C1= =E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng [mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.c= om]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA10=D4=C210=C8=D5 11:42
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xiajinwei
=B3=AD=CB=CD: avtext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [avtext] Splicing notification = draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01

 

Hi Jinw= ei,

&n= bsp;

Thank y= ou for your quick reply.

Plz fin= d my inline comments below.

&n= bsp;

BR=

Lingli<= o:p>

&n= bsp;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xiajinwei [mailto:xiajinwei@huawei.com]
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA10=D4=C29=C8=D5 11:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng
=B3=AD=CB=CD: avtext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [avtext] Splicing notification = draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01

 

Hi Ling= li,

&n= bsp;

Thank y= our interest and support on this work, I just try to reactivate it soon.

&n= bsp;

The spl= icing use cases you mentioned indeed make sense, RTP Splicing document (RFC= 6828) keeps the local AD insertion as the representative use case, but it c= an also considers several other use cases, e.g., emergency information, etc. You can refer the first bullet of introd= uction section in RFC6828.

&n= bsp;

Targete= d advertising can also use the mixer defined in RFC6828 to handle RTP splic= ing, while the mixer needs to be more powerful to insert different content = for different end users simultaneously. It is an mixer implementation issue IMO.

&n= bsp;

[dll] G= lad that you are also considering other cases. Would the sender-decided/off= -line time slot synchronization between the main sender and the substitutio= n sender requirement be an obstacle to the flexibility of the substitutive content as desired by these cases? For= instance, both the start/end time points and the duration of the substitut= ive media maybe unpredictable to both senders in such cases. But as you sai= d, it could be an implementation issue, since the current document clearly sets the offline negotiation mec= hanism out of scopeJ

&n= bsp;

By the = way, China Mobile also has fixed broadband network, right?

&n= bsp;

[dll] Y= es, we have been providing xDSL service nationwide since 2008, when China T= ietong=A1=AFs public ISP department merged with China Mobile.

&n= bsp;

BR=

Jinwei<= o:p>

&n= bsp;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: =B5=CB=C1= =E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng [mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.c= om]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA10=D4=C29=C8=D5 10:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xiajinwei
=B3=AD=CB=CD: avtext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [avtext] Splicing notification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification= -01

 

Hi Jinwei,

I also find this work interesting and would like to se= e it moving forward.

In particular, besides local ad substitution, have you= considered applying it to other cases, such as
1, urgent information publication (in case of typhoon, disaster, war, etc) = where the mixer could be deployed and owned by the network operator, and 2, target ad insertion based on subscriber=A1=AFs personal/group profile in= formation provided by the network operator.

I am not sure that the above cases can be addressed by= the existing proposal, though.

BR

Lingli

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: avtext-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces at ietf.org] =B4=FA= =B1=ED Jinwei Xia
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA= 4=D4=C219=C8=D5 06:29
=CA=D5= =BC=FE=C8=CB:= avtext at ietf.= org
=D6=F7= =CC=E2: Re: [avtext] Splicing= notification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01

 

Hi Roni,

Thank your support on= this work. The draft aims to provide one generic approach to carry the spl= icing related metadata to the splicer regardless of the media codec in the RTP payload.

Anybody who review th= e draft at your convenient time can show your comments to me, it is very ap= preciated.

BR

Jinwei

=B7= =A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: avtext-bounc= es at ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces at ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Roni Even
=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA4=D4=C217= =C8=D5 21:54
=CA=D5= =BC=FE=C8=CB:= avtext at ietf.= org
=D6=F7= =CC=E2: [avtext] Splicing not= ification draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01

Hi,

I read draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-01 and think it is an impo= rtant building block for the RTP splicing topology specified in RFC6828.

It allows splicing at RTP level and not only = for MPEG2 TS (Transport streams).

I support going forward with this work

Roni Even

 

--_000_A8219E7785257C47B75B6DCE682F8D2F4F79A577nkgeml501mbschi_-- From jonathan@vidyo.com Fri Oct 11 08:42:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9450F21E8120 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVNXQ8-Hf303 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server209.appriver.com (server209d.appriver.com [8.31.233.119]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CD321E8114 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:42:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Note-AR-ScanTimeLocal: 10/11/2013 11:42:19 AM X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Primary: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: This Email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide X-Virus-Scan: V- X-Note-SnifferID: 0 X-Note: TCH-CT/SI:0-18/SG:2 10/11/2013 11:41:41 AM X-GBUdb-Analysis: 0, 162.209.16.213, Ugly c=0.959827 p=-0.964125 Source White X-Signature-Violations: 0-0-0-6096-c X-Note-419: 15.6003 ms. Fail:0 Chk:1347 of 1347 total X-Note: SCH-CT/SI:0-1347/SG:1 10/11/2013 11:42:01 AM X-Note: Spam Tests Failed: X-Country-Path: ->UNKNOWN->LOCAL X-Note-Sending-IP: 162.209.16.213 X-Note-Reverse-DNS: X-Note-Return-Path: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: User Rule Hits: X-Note: Global Rule Hits: G340 G341 G342 G343 G347 G348 G455 X-Note: Encrypt Rule Hits: X-Note: Mail Class: VALID X-Note: Headers Injected Received: from [162.209.16.213] (HELO mail.vidyo.com) by server209.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTPS id 39593724; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:42:19 -0400 Received: from 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62]) by 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 10:42:18 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" Thread-Topic: [avtext] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHOv0mno8i2yt9QzUWEfdVseuhSEJnwBi0A Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:42:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20131002082742.20697.19873.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <71BCDA14F49B214D945DB8B025F6B1FB@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:42:25 -0000 Could people who commented during the WGLC review this version of the docum= ent, and confirm that it satisfies any issues they had? On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:35 AM, "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" wrote: > WG, >=20 > This version attempts to address the WGLC comments raised in the list. Pl= ease review the changes and provide feedback. >=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > -acbegen >=20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-= 04.txt >> Date: October 2, 2013 11:27:42 AM GMT+03:00 >> To: "Dr. Colin Perkins" , Colin Perkins , Ali Begen >>=20 >>=20 >> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Ali Begen and posted to the >> IETF repository. >>=20 >> Filename: draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication >> Revision: 04 >> Title: Duplicating RTP Streams >> Creation date: 2013-10-02 >> Group: avtext >> Number of pages: 12 >> URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avtext-r= tp-duplication-04.txt >> Status: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-d= uplication >> Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplic= ation-04 >> Diff: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-avtext-rt= p-duplication-04 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> Packet loss is undesirable for real-time multimedia sessions, but can >> occur due to congestion, or other unplanned network outages. This is >> especially true for IP multicast networks, where packet loss patterns >> can vary greatly between receivers. One technique that can be used >> to recover from packet loss without incurring unbounded delay for all >> the receivers is to duplicate the packets and send them in separate >> redundant streams. This document explains how Real-time Transport >> Protocol (RTP) streams can be duplicated without breaking RTP or RTP >> Control Protocol (RTCP) rules. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submis= sion >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> The IETF Secretariat >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext >=20 From magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Mon Oct 14 00:53:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC7021F9D98 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 00:53:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.206 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.206 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OkPqlZG4h5uM for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 00:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B826821E80E7 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 00:51:31 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7eff8e000000eda-d5-525ba282e181 Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2D.E9.03802.282AB525; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:51:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.86) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.2.328.9; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:51:30 +0200 Message-ID: <525BA2AE.4000304@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:52:14 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Lennox , "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" References: <20131002082742.20697.19873.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvrW7Touggg5dz9C0ebJ/LaPHx3g1W i/2LzzM7MHtM+b2R1WPJkp9MHm3P7rAHMEdx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZWw+t5apYKF0xacVP5gb GM+IdTFycEgImEg8eaDZxcgJZIpJXLi3nq2LkYtDSOAwo8Tpnp1QznJGiebJv5lBqngFtCXW X/jJBmKzCKhKPO1eyQpiswlYSNz80QgWFxUIlmjf/pUNol5Q4uTMJywgtohAmMSOZ6vA5jAL qEsc3reEEcQWFkiQmPrxBivEss2MEv3LzrCDJDgFbCU2Tl7NDHGepMS2RcfYIZr1JKZcbWGE sOUlmrfOBqsRAjquoamDdQKj0Cwku2chaZmFpGUBI/MqRvbcxMyc9HKjTYzAAD645bfqDsY7 50QOMUpzsCiJ83546xwkJJCeWJKanZpakFoUX1Sak1p8iJGJg1OqgbGSaU5DL+MSnQNGV4Xv XkjhtvmrFV15O26ut43Ch/gjK3i1VPKPJj4WWNQXs3B1Gsc2ow+JUR8WtwgmacYuyL2+eM1+ a5EUO5sfjz60rzCwsix+9ih8o9REpji/mb1b4rQ/dEr943+vt66Q6zvj+Q7zvxPjtl2fMtWF 7+p1lsmvVljK35zxUFWJpTgj0VCLuag4EQAdZBlXLgIAAA== Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 07:53:24 -0000 Ali, WG, I have reviewed the changes since the -02 in WG last call. I believe the changes on a basic level resolves my issues in the last call. They are not my preferred solution or clarifications, but they do remove my objections against publication. Cheers Magnus On 2013-10-11 17:42, Jonathan Lennox wrote: > Could people who commented during the WGLC review this version of the > document, and confirm that it satisfies any issues they had? > > On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:35 AM, "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" > wrote: > >> WG, >> >> This version attempts to address the WGLC comments raised in the >> list. Please review the changes and provide feedback. >> >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 >> >> >> >>> Thanks, >> -acbegen >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: Subject: New Version >>> Notification for draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt Date: >>> October 2, 2013 11:27:42 AM GMT+03:00 To: "Dr. Colin Perkins" >>> , Colin Perkins , Ali Begen >>> >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Ali Begen and posted to the >>> IETF repository. >>> >>> Filename: draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication Revision: 04 Title: >>> Duplicating RTP Streams Creation date: 2013-10-02 Group: >>> avtext Number of pages: 12 URL: >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04.txt >>> >>> Status: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication >>> Htmlized: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 >>> Diff: >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 >>> >>> >>> Abstract: >>> Packet loss is undesirable for real-time multimedia sessions, but >>> can occur due to congestion, or other unplanned network outages. >>> This is especially true for IP multicast networks, where packet >>> loss patterns can vary greatly between receivers. One technique >>> that can be used to recover from packet loss without incurring >>> unbounded delay for all the receivers is to duplicate the packets >>> and send them in separate redundant streams. This document >>> explains how Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) streams can be >>> duplicated without breaking RTP or RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) >>> rules. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >>> tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ avtext mailing >> list avtext@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext >> > > _______________________________________________ avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext > > -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From xiajinwei@huawei.com Thu Oct 17 00:11:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9390821F9B6A for ; 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X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AosGAKa3YVKtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABQCoMHOEwGq3aJZYgCS4ElFnSCJgEBBAEBAWsEBxACAQgOFB0HJwsUEQIEDgUIAYd9BwXAY44NBoESLQQGAQmDFoEKA5k4kFiDJIFwOQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,525,1378857600"; d="scan'208,217";a="270980500" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2013 22:40:28 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r9IMeRZU018220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:40:27 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.27]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:40:27 -0500 From: "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" To: Colin Perkins Thread-Topic: [avtext] Taxonomy Thread-Index: AQHOzFMKdcKdQtPa8UK3rBZkA/0l2Q== Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:40:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B06AD4E@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <381F511C-3377-4D3E-848F-50CC1D7DD017@csperkins.org> <523BEAB8.60300@ericsson.com> <766FC0D4-D33C-4B49-941A-1C442DF1E456@csperkins.org> In-Reply-To: <766FC0D4-D33C-4B49-941A-1C442DF1E456@csperkins.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.132.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D85334BB1373A34AA5FF84F9A623928A1F1BA978xmbrcdx04ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] Taxonomy X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:40:33 -0000 --_000_D85334BB1373A34AA5FF84F9A623928A1F1BA978xmbrcdx04ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colin - The -03 version of the document has been posted and is available here: Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxono= my-03 Diffs: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-group= ing-taxonomy-03 Your comments should all be addressed, except for this editorial one: I find it difficult to read in places, due to the excessive use of sub-sect= ion numbering. The might would be easier to read if the 4th level headings= were removed, and replaced by prose. So far we've done this for the 3.3.4.x sub-sections only. While your commen= t is perfectly valid and one we'll happily attend to in the future, the tho= ught was to wait for the document structure to be more stable. The past tw= o versions have been major overhauls, so the authors prefer to wait for it = to be less in flux before attempting to subsume these 4th level sub-section= s. Hope that is ok. Cheers, Gonzalo On Sep 22, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Colin Perkins > wrote: Hi Magnus, On 20 Sep 2013, at 07:27, Magnus Westerlund > wrote: I just wanted to comment on what have and have not been addressed in the new version of the taxonomy draft. Me and Bo forgot about this email until after we had done our submission, sorry about that. No problem; the new draft looks to address many of my concerns. A comment on the latest version: I find it difficult to read in places, due= to the excessive use of sub-section numbering. The might would be easier = to read if the 4th level headings were removed, and replaced by prose. On 2013-07-19 22:34, Colin Perkins wrote: On 16 Jul 2013, at 15:53, > wrote: (As AVTEXT WG cochair) The latest version of the taxonomy draft has been submitted https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy= / This document was allocated to AVTEXT by dispatch, and we have created a milestone for it in AVTEXT. This draft is not yet a working group document. We do expect to spend some significant time discussing the contents in the AVTEXT meeting in Berlin, so please start raising your issues on the AVTEXT list. This looks like a very useful document, that will hopefully avoid some confusion in future. Some brief comments: - Section 2.4.2 incorrectly expands RTCP as "Real-time Transport Control Protocol", and should be "RTP Control Protocol". Not addressed, but I have entered it into the source so that it will be addressed in the next version. Okay. - Section 2.6.2, 2nd bullet: it might be useful to explain that multiple RTP sessions can only be multiplexed over a single transport flow if some sort of shim is included in the packets to distinguish the sessions (the referenced draft-westerlund-avtcore-transport-multiplexing describes why this has to be the case in detail, but I think the high-level point is important to cover in this draft too). I also think the term "session multiplexing" is unclear about what is multiplexed, and would prefer it not be used. This has been substantially rewritten and split appart. And I agree that Session multiplexing is not a good term and the new document discusses both RTP Session based separation of RTP Packet Streams and Multiple RTP sessions over one Media Transport. See section 3.3.4.2 and 3.4. The new version is better. I would suggest that Sections 3.3.4.1 and 3.3.4.= 2 should also mention how the streams can be explicitly related (i.e., usin= g a common RTCP CNAME, or other means). - Section 2.9.1: I'm not sure an m=3D line description the configuration required to decode a media stream. It might be better to say the combination of an m=3D line, the associated payload format mapping in the associated a=3Drtpmap: lines, and the payload format parameters in a=3Dfmtp: lines define the configuration required to decode a media stream. Just the m=3D line is only sufficient for the trivial static payload types. Also this has ceased to exist in the form you protested. - Section 2.10: what's the relationship between a "participant" and an "end point"? In most cases a one to one as the end point is this addressable entity for the media chain and the participant is what is addressable on the signaling plane. However, this is not always true if we take SIP forking or other cases where a signalling entity has multiple points of presence. This will need to be better explored and the place to do it is likely in the Section 4 rewrite. This section is intended to cover how the RTP session, transport topologies and signaling interact to cause difficult situations. Decomposed endpoints would be another, presumably. - Section 2.11.2: I'm not sure an RTCP CNAME can identify a participant in an RTP multimedia session; the RTCP CNAME describes a synchronisation context, but a participant can generate multiple unsynchronised media streams. This is now Section 2.2.4.2, however the question remains. I think I agree that Participant is likely to go to far in the bindings, however CNAME clearly has an overload functionality of being both an end point identifier and a synchronization context. I think the synchronization context is the one that must prevail and the end point usage discontinued. Agree. For the next version I have removed this bullet. Discussion of identification is likely needed but likely in a better context. I think this do applies for exploration in the Section 4 rewrite. That makes sense. - Section 3.1.1: note that RTP uses NTP-format timestamps, but doesn't require the clock be synchronised to NTP. This section can be mis-read as requiring the use of NTP, rather than just the timestamp format of NTP. Section 3.1.1.1. now says: RFC3550 [RFC3550] describes Inter-media synchronization between RTP Sessions based on RTCP CNAME, RTP and Network Time Protocol (NTP) [RFC5905] formatted timestamps of a reference clock. Better, although an explicit statement that the NTP-format timestamps don't= need to be NTP synchronised would still be useful. Also, it might help to = reference the clksrc draft? -- Colin Perkins http://csperkins.org/ _______________________________________________ avtext mailing list avtext@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext --_000_D85334BB1373A34AA5FF84F9A623928A1F1BA978xmbrcdx04ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3D2144BA37C99344847EC534C4756B9C@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colin - 

The -03 version of the document has been posted and is available here:=

Your comments should all be addressed, except for this editorial one:<= /div>

I find it difficult to read in places, due to the= excessive use of sub-section numbering.  The might would be easier to= read if the 4th level headings were removed, and replaced by prose.

So far we've done this for the 3.3.4.x sub-sections only. Wh= ile your comment is perfectly valid and one we'll happily attend to in the = future, the thought was to wait for the document structure to be more stabl= e.  The past two versions have been major overhauls, so the authors prefer to wait for it to be less in flux before = attempting to subsume these 4th level sub-sections.  Hope that is ok.<= /div>

Cheers,

Gonzalo


On Sep 22, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> wrote:

Hi Magnus,

On 20 Sep 2013, at 07:27, Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote:
I just wanted to comment on what have and have no= t been addressed in the
new version of the taxonomy draft. Me and Bo forgot about this email
until after we had done our submission, sorry about that.

No problem; the new draft looks to address many of my concerns. 

A comment on the latest version: I find it difficult to read in places, due= to the excessive use of sub-section numbering.  The might would be ea= sier to read if the 4th level headings were removed, and replaced by p= rose.

On 2013-07-19 22:34, Colin Perkins wrote:
On 16 Jul 2013, at 15:53, <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote= :
(As AVTEXT WG cochair)

The latest version of the taxonomy draft has been submitted

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-gro= uping-taxonomy/


This document was allocated to AVTEXT by dispatch, and we have
created a milestone for it in AVTEXT.

This draft is not yet a working group document.

We do expect to spend some significant time discussing the contents
in the AVTEXT meeting in Berlin, so please start raising your
issues on the AVTEXT list.


This looks like a very useful document, that will hopefully avoid
some confusion in future. Some brief comments:

- Section 2.4.2 incorrectly expands RTCP as "Real-time Transport
Control Protocol", and should be "RTP Control Protocol".

Not addressed, but I have entered it into the source so that it will be
addressed in the next version.

Okay.

- Section 2.6.2, 2nd bullet: it might be useful t= o explain that
multiple RTP sessions can only be multiplexed over a single transport
flow if some sort of shim is included in the packets to distinguish
the sessions (the referenced
draft-westerlund-avtcore-transport-multiplexing describes why this
has to be the case in detail, but I think the high-level point is
important to cover in this draft too). I also think the term "session<= br> multiplexing" is unclear about what is multiplexed, and would prefer it not be used.

This has been substantially rewritten and split appart. And I agree that Session multiplexing is not a good term and the new document discusses
both RTP Session based separation of RTP Packet Streams and Multiple RTP sessions over one Media Transport. See section 3.3.4.2 and 3.4.

The new version is better. I would suggest that Sections 3.3.4.1 and 3.3.4.= 2 should also mention how the streams can be explicitly related (i.e., usin= g a common RTCP CNAME, or other means). 

- Section 2.9.1: I'm not sure an m=3D line descri= ption the
configuration required to decode a media stream. It might be better
to say the combination of an m=3D line, the associated payload format
mapping in the associated a=3Drtpmap: lines, and the payload format
parameters in a=3Dfmtp: lines define the configuration required to
decode a media stream. Just the m=3D line is only sufficient for the
trivial static payload types.

Also this has ceased to exist in the form you protested.


- Section 2.10: what's the relationship between a "participant" a= nd
an "end point"?

In most cases a one to one as the end point is this addressable entity
for the media chain and the participant is what is addressable on the
signaling plane. However, this is not always true if we take SIP forking or other cases where a signalling entity has multiple points of
presence. This will need to be better explored and the place to do it is likely in the Section 4 rewrite. This section is intended to cover how
the RTP session, transport topologies and signaling interact to cause
difficult situations.

Decomposed endpoints would be another, presumably. 

- Section 2.11.2: I'm not sure an RTCP CNAME can = identify a
participant in an RTP multimedia session; the RTCP CNAME describes a
synchronisation context, but a participant can generate multiple
unsynchronised media streams.

This is now Section 2.2.4.2, however the question remains.

I think I agree that Participant is likely to go to far in the bindings, however CNAME clearly has an overload functionality of being both an end point identifier and a synchronization context. I think the
synchronization context is the one that must prevail and the end point
usage discontinued.

Agree.

For the next version I have removed this bullet. = Discussion of
identification is likely needed but likely in a better context. I think
this do applies for exploration in the Section 4 rewrite.

That makes sense.

- Section 3.1.1: note that RTP uses NTP-format ti= mestamps, but
doesn't require the clock be synchronised to NTP. This section can be
mis-read as requiring the use of NTP, rather than just the timestamp
format of NTP.

Section 3.1.1.1. now says:

 RFC3550 [RFC3550] describes Inter-media synchronization between RTP  Sessions based on RTCP CNAME, RTP and Network Time Protocol (NTP)
 [RFC5905] formatted timestamps of a reference clock.

Better, although an explicit statement that the NTP-format timestamps don't= need to be NTP synchronised would still be useful. Also, it might help to = reference the clksrc draft?

-- 
Colin Perkins
http://csperkins.org/



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--_000_D85334BB1373A34AA5FF84F9A623928A1F1BA978xmbrcdx04ciscoc_-- From jonathan@vidyo.com Mon Oct 21 11:40:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CBB11E823B for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:40:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.16 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.16 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.669, BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jRUxtI4WD0XP for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server209.appriver.com (server209c.appriver.com [8.31.233.118]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3252411E82BE for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Note-AR-ScanTimeLocal: 10/21/2013 2:39:59 PM X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Primary: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: This Email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide X-Virus-Scan: V- X-Note-SnifferID: 0 X-Note: TCH-CT/SI:0-116/SG:2 10/21/2013 2:39:36 PM X-GBUdb-Analysis: 0, 162.209.16.213, Ugly c=0.922489 p=-0.975395 Source White X-Signature-Violations: 0-0-0-2200-c X-Note-419: 0 ms. Fail:0 Chk:1349 of 1349 total X-Note: SCH-CT/SI:0-1349/SG:1 10/21/2013 2:39:57 PM X-Note: Spam Tests Failed: X-Country-Path: ->UNKNOWN->LOCAL X-Note-Sending-IP: 162.209.16.213 X-Note-Reverse-DNS: X-Note-Return-Path: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: User Rule Hits: X-Note: Global Rule Hits: G325 G326 G327 G328 G332 G333 G443 X-Note: Encrypt Rule Hits: X-Note: Mail Class: VALID X-Note: Headers Injected Received: from [162.209.16.213] (HELO mail.vidyo.com) by server209.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTPS id 66641034 for avtext@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:39:59 -0400 Received: from 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62]) by 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:39:58 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: AVTEXT at IETF 88 Thread-Index: AQHOzozxU4SCXwcH50mhdYR7iSURmQ== Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:39:57 +0000 Message-ID: <3E24D5F9-53E9-4988-A29C-89A3ADC6EA86@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9860BE5EEB551B4A8E3ADFFE29CE902B@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [avtext] AVTEXT at IETF 88 X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:40:37 -0000 The AVTEXT working group will be meeting at IETF 88 on Tuesday afternoon (N= ovember 5) for one and a half hours, from 1420 - 1550 PST. If you have material which you would like to discuss at the meeting, please= e-mail the working group chairs (me and Keith Drage) with information abou= t the draft you would like to discuss, who will be presenting, and how much= time you would suggest you need for the discussion. Priority will be given to the working group's chartered work items and mate= rial that has been discussed on the mailing list. --=20 Jonathan Lennox jonathan@vidyo.com= From keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com Thu Oct 24 06:23:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAD711E81BB for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:23:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sFvsDxWSlv-O for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihemail2.lucent.com (ihemail2.lucent.com [135.245.0.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA64E11E8179 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by ihemail2.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id r9ODN5jF015222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 08:23:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id r9ODN4Ni004845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:23:04 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.239]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:23:04 +0200 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy Thread-Index: Ac7QumntAGjgO2pjT1ysU24IrXE3Tw== Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:23:03 +0000 Message-ID: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.35 Subject: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:23:14 -0000 (As WG co-chair) The following draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy= /=20 draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-03 A Taxonomy of Grouping Semantics and Mechanisms for Real-Time Transport Pro= tocol (RTP) Sources Has been significantly updated. We already have the milestone for this work. I'd like to start a call to adopt this text as a WG item. So please respond= to this mail with either support, not support, or support only part of the= text (if the latter please be specific as to which parts cause issues). Please respond by Tuesday 5th November. We will also do a final call at the= face to face meeting, but please raise issues before this. Please also feel free to raise separately any issues you would like fixed i= n the text which you believe do not impact the call above. Also any subject= matter that you think is missing. It would be good to know that some peopl= e have read the draft. Regards Keith= From magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Thu Oct 24 06:36:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6023311E8314 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:36:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.482 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.482 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.883, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SGySiNt9NL7S for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg20.ericsson.net (sesbmg20.ericsson.net [193.180.251.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64C321E8099 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:36:26 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb38-b7f178e00000233b-19-526922576cc6 Received: from ESESSHC014.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AC.AE.09019.75229625; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:36:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.2.328.9; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:36:23 +0200 Message-ID: <52692280.5090508@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:37:04 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrJJMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW6EUmaQwbEXIhYf791gdWD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxqzVf9kLGgUqjnfaNjD+5uli5OCQEDCRuLhWvIuRE8gUk7hw bz1bFyMXh5DAUUaJL9u3M0E4yxklzp66zgJSxSugLbHnz0I2EJtFQFXiwueNzCA2m4CFxM0f jWBxUYFgiRvLDrFB1AtKnJz5BKxXREBU4vruc+wgtrCAg8TR9rVMILaQQJRE988/jCA2p0C0 xOu9L9ghjhOX6GkMAgkzC+hJTLnawghhy0s0b53NDNGqLdHQ1ME6gVFwFpJts5C0zELSsoCR eRUjR3FqcVJuupHBJkZg8B3c8ttiB+PlvzaHGKU5WJTEeT++dQ4SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrN SS0+xMjEwSnVwNhi8SHN0yL7Q6X+odCXNxUuTZ8YoyN+/H/fU6b5aUnVz53tmxR3m3/pitl8 c8c31lk3PNrEk4W/v871uCo8dXXsUe7cZon3kQdnvH0gl7Is7vXenO3/c+PcT7SET2uct9rB bSOjkNdMc55Wkaofrjd5zh7618fZ/3mr1dRtl9/82tGkGqH3/LoSS3FGoqEWc1FxIgA2YSvl DAIAAA== Subject: Re: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:36:55 -0000 Hi, I support adopting this. I have found the terminology very useful in writing descriptions and explanations in proposals. In fact we have references to the individual draft in several of my drafts. For full disclosure I was heavily involved in the rewrite resulting in the changes over the two last versions. Cheers Magnus On 2013-10-24 15:23, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: > (As WG co-chair) > > The following draft: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy/ > draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-03 > A Taxonomy of Grouping Semantics and Mechanisms for Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) Sources > > Has been significantly updated. > > We already have the milestone for this work. > > I'd like to start a call to adopt this text as a WG item. So please respond to this mail with either support, not support, or support only part of the text (if the latter please be specific as to which parts cause issues). > > Please respond by Tuesday 5th November. We will also do a final call at the face to face meeting, but please raise issues before this. > > Please also feel free to raise separately any issues you would like fixed in the text which you believe do not impact the call above. Also any subject matter that you think is missing. It would be good to know that some people have read the draft. > > Regards > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext > > -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From jonathan@vidyo.com Wed Oct 30 10:46:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3EBC11E8195 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:46:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.844 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.844 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.136, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2zqTpEiO5yOH for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server209.appriver.com (server209d.appriver.com [8.31.233.119]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E771111E82AB for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Note-AR-ScanTimeLocal: 10/30/2013 1:45:25 PM X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Primary: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: This Email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide X-Virus-Scan: V- X-Note-SnifferID: 0 X-Note: TCH-CT/SI:0-78/SG:2 10/30/2013 1:44:33 PM X-GBUdb-Analysis: 0, 162.209.16.213, Ugly c=0.926185 p=-0.973763 Source White X-Signature-Violations: 0-0-0-2877-c X-Note-419: 15.6002 ms. Fail:0 Chk:1349 of 1349 total X-Note: SCH-CT/SI:0-1349/SG:1 10/30/2013 1:45:16 PM X-Note: Spam Tests Failed: X-Country-Path: ->UNKNOWN->LOCAL X-Note-Sending-IP: 162.209.16.213 X-Note-Reverse-DNS: X-Note-Return-Path: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: User Rule Hits: X-Note: Global Rule Hits: G325 G326 G327 G328 G332 G333 G443 X-Note: Encrypt Rule Hits: X-Note: Mail Class: VALID X-Note: Headers Injected Received: from [162.209.16.213] (HELO mail.vidyo.com) by server209.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTPS id 44106289 for avtext@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:45:25 -0400 Received: from 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62]) by 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:45:24 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: AVTEXT agenda for IETF 88 Thread-Index: AQHO1ZfPblH5JZ+hFUOLlTs3snU1sg== Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:45:23 +0000 Message-ID: <3EC584FB-3E4C-47C4-B6D1-0C6ACEFFC7A3@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <16DC930119204B49A6139067AEBA73D5@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [avtext] AVTEXT agenda for IETF 88 X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:46:33 -0000 The agenda for AVTEXT at IETF88 has been uploaded. Please send any comments to the chairs. AVTEXT Audio/Video Transport Extensions =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Tuesday 14:20 - 15:50 (Regency A) Chairs: Keith Drage / Jonathan Lennox 14:20 Agenda bash and status update (10 min) Chairs draft-ietf-avtext-multiple-clock-rates-10 draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-duplication-04 14:30 Taxonomy (45 min) Bo Burman draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-03 15:15 RTP Header Extension for RTCP Source Description Items (15 min) Magnus Westerlund draft-westerlund-avtext-sdes-hdr-ext-01 15:30 RTCP Source Description Item SRCNAME to Label Individual Media Source= s (15 min) Magnus Westerlund draft-westerlund-avtext-rtcp-sdes-srcname-03 15:45 RTP/RTCP extension for RTP Splicing Notification (5 min) Lingli Deng draft-xia-avtext-splicing-notification-02 =20 15:50 Close From ron.even.tlv@gmail.com Thu Oct 31 03:04:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F50421E8095 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:04:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4k5ZWTaX1Swp for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22b.google.com (mail-we0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5397921F9D69 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id t60so2425615wes.16 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:04:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=qLXua44NsAMkYrWfphlxp/BEHfjKOSfK3tAIkdXhC8o=; b=n7jg0zSc7B1N/pc1AmXlS/kojkJ3P5oSikzmLo9mJxgfZp1Qyt8eBvfjnjPdaO2h99 zs82bpSfj2SumpfvfY3wHRjHuNG5LlHoHd9UHjr/RSvUx3Y1erUS3BbBU4n4cs6AWGEv QY9RRMc4Gh4xNw2I+E0nm9mkeIA6bWba1NKZ0CNMxCFMpZN9C3wVw0ma+i0H9xtelGIi 1sBtjAFY3WR+JHEfTeGNBZp5RcGC6m9LsNCqIJGEqYcWRtxsOwa4931c6NqvBJC+q6p2 O06Tg0578cTLGKnSrL8BNl5a7YOKFIaDg59c0I2CtgB4JkK4szBZ9J7l4/LFB96yRuz8 0poA== X-Received: by 10.194.185.173 with SMTP id fd13mr917294wjc.86.1383213896650; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE ([109.67.11.64]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j3sm24654349wie.2.2013.10.31.03.04.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:04:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)'" , References: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 12:01:41 +0200 Message-ID: <007001ced620$347c4520$9d74cf60$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHEA1gLQoCk2ny4Gx3aT4OFn+bh4JokOZHA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:05:00 -0000 Hi, I support adopting this document Roni Even > -----Original Message----- > From: avtext-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:avtext-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > DRAGE, Keith (Keith) > Sent: 24 October, 2013 4:23 PM > To: avtext@ietf.org > Subject: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy > > (As WG co-chair) > > The following draft: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy/ > draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-03 > A Taxonomy of Grouping Semantics and Mechanisms for Real-Time Transport > Protocol (RTP) Sources > > Has been significantly updated. > > We already have the milestone for this work. > > I'd like to start a call to adopt this text as a WG item. So please respond to this > mail with either support, not support, or support only part of the text (if the > latter please be specific as to which parts cause issues). > > Please respond by Tuesday 5th November. We will also do a final call at the > face to face meeting, but please raise issues before this. > > Please also feel free to raise separately any issues you would like fixed in the > text which you believe do not impact the call above. Also any subject matter > that you think is missing. It would be good to know that some people have read > the draft. > > Regards > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext From abegen@cisco.com Thu Oct 31 03:07:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB2321E80DD for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:07:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Od8sEMXa6FnE for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8923421F9D69 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:06:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2772; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1383214005; x=1384423605; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=UEXcZOskGdeLOMHTmHhKrx9zFn0T1Npuqu7t/8ggdiU=; b=M6YrWdWm+lAlbdrFonP4PlV8aIAg+O+WPqJXI+vOziHtX1cSQUEimPEQ dCjDZmh2YPlux6ZKmr9IDOtyG/G5Tq9Plu70dYZPra7gEv6LK40Pzuoam 6RjQaDeJ+iBHXg17TrrKzL0zyjZuMAdOIzsyEwTs2+zeG1c7HcTCFS0D8 Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFADEqclKtJXHB/2dsb2JhbABNDIJmIThUgxO8DEsYgRAWdIIlAQEBBAEBARoGEToXBgEIDgMDAQEBAwIGHQMCBB8GCxQBCAgBAQQBEgiHbQMPAQypBIhoDYlnBIEpizaBIgEUgQg4BoJlNYEOA5Ygjj2FN4MmgXE5 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,607,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="278914224" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 31 Oct 2013 10:06:45 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r9VA6jwH002208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:06:45 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 05:06:44 -0500 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: Roni Even , "'DRAGE, Keith (Keith)'" , "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy Thread-Index: Ac7QumntAGjgO2pjT1ysU24IrXE3TwFj7EeAAAJFTAA= Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:06:44 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <007001ced620$347c4520$9d74cf60$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.86.245.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:07:36 -0000 SSBhbHNvIHN1cHBvcnQgYWRvcHRpb24uDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpG cm9tOiBSb25pIEV2ZW4gPHJvbi5ldmVuLnRsdkBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQpEYXRlOiBUaHVyc2RheSwg T2N0b2JlciAzMSwgMjAxMyBhdCAxMTowMSBBTQ0KVG86ICInRFJBR0UsIEtlaXRoIChLZWl0aCkn IiA8a2VpdGguZHJhZ2VAYWxjYXRlbC1sdWNlbnQuY29tPiwNCiJhdnRleHRAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxh dnRleHRAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW2F2dGV4dF0gZHJhZnQtbGVubm94LXJhaWFy ZWEtcnRwLWdyb3VwaW5nLXRheG9ub215DQoNCj5IaSwNCj5JIHN1cHBvcnQgYWRvcHRpbmcgdGhp cyBkb2N1bWVudA0KPlJvbmkgRXZlbg0KPg0KPj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0N Cj4+IEZyb206IGF2dGV4dC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86YXZ0ZXh0LWJvdW5jZXNA aWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZg0KPk9mDQo+PiBEUkFHRSwgS2VpdGggKEtlaXRoKQ0KPj4gU2Vu dDogMjQgT2N0b2JlciwgMjAxMyA0OjIzIFBNDQo+PiBUbzogYXZ0ZXh0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBT dWJqZWN0OiBbYXZ0ZXh0XSBkcmFmdC1sZW5ub3gtcmFpYXJlYS1ydHAtZ3JvdXBpbmctdGF4b25v bXkNCj4+IA0KPj4gKEFzIFdHIGNvLWNoYWlyKQ0KPj4gDQo+PiBUaGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGRyYWZ0 Og0KPj4gDQo+Pg0KPmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWxlbm5v eC1yYWlhcmVhLXJ0cC1ncm91cGluZy10YXhvbm9tDQo+eS8NCj4+IGRyYWZ0LWxlbm5veC1yYWlh cmVhLXJ0cC1ncm91cGluZy10YXhvbm9teS0wMw0KPj4gQSBUYXhvbm9teSBvZiBHcm91cGluZyBT ZW1hbnRpY3MgYW5kIE1lY2hhbmlzbXMgZm9yIFJlYWwtVGltZSBUcmFuc3BvcnQNCj4+IFByb3Rv Y29sIChSVFApIFNvdXJjZXMNCj4+IA0KPj4gSGFzIGJlZW4gc2lnbmlmaWNhbnRseSB1cGRhdGVk Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBXZSBhbHJlYWR5IGhhdmUgdGhlIG1pbGVzdG9uZSBmb3IgdGhpcyB3b3JrLg0K Pj4gDQo+PiBJJ2QgbGlrZSB0byBzdGFydCBhIGNhbGwgdG8gYWRvcHQgdGhpcyB0ZXh0IGFzIGEg V0cgaXRlbS4gU28gcGxlYXNlDQo+cmVzcG9uZCB0byB0aGlzDQo+PiBtYWlsIHdpdGggZWl0aGVy IHN1cHBvcnQsIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0LCBvciBzdXBwb3J0IG9ubHkgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgdGV4dA0K PihpZiB0aGUNCj4+IGxhdHRlciBwbGVhc2UgYmUgc3BlY2lmaWMgYXMgdG8gd2hpY2ggcGFydHMg Y2F1c2UgaXNzdWVzKS4NCj4+IA0KPj4gUGxlYXNlIHJlc3BvbmQgYnkgVHVlc2RheSA1dGggTm92 ZW1iZXIuIFdlIHdpbGwgYWxzbyBkbyBhIGZpbmFsIGNhbGwgYXQNCj50aGUNCj4+IGZhY2UgdG8g ZmFjZSBtZWV0aW5nLCBidXQgcGxlYXNlIHJhaXNlIGlzc3VlcyBiZWZvcmUgdGhpcy4NCj4+IA0K Pj4gUGxlYXNlIGFsc28gZmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIHJhaXNlIHNlcGFyYXRlbHkgYW55IGlzc3VlcyB5 b3Ugd291bGQgbGlrZQ0KPj5maXhlZA0KPmluIHRoZQ0KPj4gdGV4dCB3aGljaCB5b3UgYmVsaWV2 ZSBkbyBub3QgaW1wYWN0IHRoZSBjYWxsIGFib3ZlLiBBbHNvIGFueSBzdWJqZWN0DQo+bWF0dGVy DQo+PiB0aGF0IHlvdSB0aGluayBpcyBtaXNzaW5nLiBJdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBnb29kIHRvIGtub3cg dGhhdCBzb21lIHBlb3BsZQ0KPj5oYXZlDQo+cmVhZA0KPj4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBS ZWdhcmRzDQo+PiANCj4+IEtlaXRoDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gYXZ0ZXh0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gYXZ0ZXh0QGlldGYu b3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2F2dGV4dA0KPg0K Pl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+YXZ0ZXh0 IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPmF2dGV4dEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYXZ0ZXh0DQo+DQoNCg0K From mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com Thu Oct 31 06:37:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC29011E81AB for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 06:37:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.433 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.433 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.166, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PHsIWoEz+JMD for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 06:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22b.google.com (mail-wi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EE111E818F for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 06:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f171.google.com with SMTP id f4so4409883wiw.10 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 06:36:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Z9jqHVATTHZKOedtGP6xDRMswR9gJAfvMAmDGog0vow=; b=QiBHJLMl2qwxQ+TKDTgnYhDiWtS2pfi4n4ARQlJlQZ8yYqiFi9JWBma38mlz2MViWH ErJuLoKsO8LtqWDVQ/w7nLUlUwk9lMnLNihe6TxMIe7QKRG8jF8ERNYdKsWDk+VVvL0P sO1KgByFR9qS6fkITg/wqTM7ip1UwXC804LqU3BMNibBGucxYgpznKnGTJkTc4KjkeZr h6kQYhR+TroI3C0nYcB87ONYIYMzjuJoGRuLY/wL7Kvr8pjAz3HCydrbcNBEVh5lzDVf +dDMy1lr6APpc4CmaTXu/aj6gUDGVTUozf0npDRbLoPEfx39E46H0FH+Dohq3sNyKsLn 2jJQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.185.73 with SMTP id fa9mr2896447wjc.29.1383226616093; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 06:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.36.4 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 06:36:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0BE94D@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6b04818a18404ea098b5b Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [avtext] draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 13:37:03 -0000 --047d7bd6b04818a18404ea098b5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I fully support adoption of this document as a WG deliverable. I've done an quick read of the draft, but I'll provide more comments later. Mary. On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:23 AM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) < keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > (As WG co-chair) > > The following draft: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy/ > draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-03 > A Taxonomy of Grouping Semantics and Mechanisms for Real-Time Transport > Protocol (RTP) Sources > > Has been significantly updated. > > We already have the milestone for this work. > > I'd like to start a call to adopt this text as a WG item. So please > respond to this mail with either support, not support, or support only part > of the text (if the latter please be specific as to which parts cause > issues). > > Please respond by Tuesday 5th November. We will also do a final call at > the face to face meeting, but please raise issues before this. > > Please also feel free to raise separately any issues you would like fixed > in the text which you believe do not impact the call above. Also any > subject matter that you think is missing. It would be good to know that > some people have read the draft. > > Regards > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > avtext mailing list > avtext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext > --047d7bd6b04818a18404ea098b5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I fully support adoption of this document as a WG delivera= ble. =A0

I've done an quick read of the draft,= but I'll provide more comments later.

Ma= ry.=A0


O= n Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:23 AM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) <= keith.d= rage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
(As WG co-chair)

The following draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lenn= ox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy/
draft-lennox-raiarea-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-03
A Taxonomy of Grouping Semantics and Mechanisms for Real-Time Transport Pro= tocol (RTP) Sources

Has been significantly updated.

We already have the milestone for this work.

I'd like to start a call to adopt this text as a WG item. So please res= pond to this mail with either support, not support, or support only part of= the text (if the latter please be specific as to which parts cause issues)= .

Please respond by Tuesday 5th November. We will also do a final call at the= face to face meeting, but please raise issues before this.

Please also feel free to raise separately any issues you would like fixed i= n the text which you believe do not impact the call above. Also any subject= matter that you think is missing. It would be good to know that some peopl= e have read the draft.

Regards

Keith
_______________________________________________
avtext mailing list
avtext@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avtext

--047d7bd6b04818a18404ea098b5b--