From nobody Fri Feb 12 12:34:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A595C1A8993 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 12:34:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jIM2JmYZBscp for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 12:34:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC7121A8997 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 12:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1CKYQP9026216 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:34:26 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC96161FA2 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:34:26 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 0vjtDMjgoHGT for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:34:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from trurl.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (col75-1-78-194-40-74.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35DCF61F9D for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:34:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:34:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87d1s11xd4.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:34:26 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56BE41D2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56BE41D2.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56BE41D2.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: [babel] BoF entry on wiki X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:34:30 -0000 Dear all, Many thanks to Joel for helping with the BoF description. It's now on the wiki. http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart I should have an applicability statement ready be the end of the week-end, I'll let you know when it's in the ID archives. Enjoy your week-end, -- Juliusz From nobody Mon Feb 15 06:52:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F4F1A7017 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 06:52:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FdEBw61lrVAM for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 06:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92A731A886B for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 06:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1FEqMSR020235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:22 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/56228) with ESMTP id u1FEqMAD018472; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:22 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C3D061FA3; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id zV-c9hFBhk78; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (unknown [172.23.36.54]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CEF6361FA2; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr) by lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1aVKVg-00036e-Kv; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:20 +0100 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:20 +0100 Message-ID: <7i7fi6hvq3.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Alia Atlas User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:22 +0100 (CET) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:52:22 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56C1E626.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 56C1E626.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56C1E626.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56C1E626.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56C1E626.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56C1E626.001 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Cc: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, babel@ietf.org Subject: [babel] Applicability statement for Babel X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:52:26 -0000 Dear Alia, dear all, I've just submitted https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00 which a very rough draft of an applicability statement for Babel. I've done my best to be concise, I've managed to stick to 1.5 pages (not counting boilerplate and references). It's a -00, and we have some time left before Buenos Aires, so contributions, criticisms and even outright disagreements are very much welcome at this stage. Russ, could you please check whether I'm citing the right document for EIGRP? Thanks, -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Feb 16 05:04:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE2D1B3632 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 05:04:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.15 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jXtu7Qx4nIe for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 05:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88CCE1B3637 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 05:04:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1GD4WLG026501 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:04:32 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BE661FA9 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:04:32 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id eK_pTEqAvLg0 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:04:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from trurl.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (col75-1-78-194-40-74.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 67E7461FA8 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:04:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:04:40 +0100 Message-ID: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:04:32 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56C31E60.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56C31E60.003 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56C31E60.003 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 13:04:36 -0000 Dear all, I think it's time we start thinking about an agenda for the Babel BoF. The following people have volunteered to make presentations: - Juliusz Chroboczek (general presentation and what needs to be done); - Toke Høiland-Jørgensen (implementation issues, in collaboration with Markus Stenberg); - Denis Ovsienko (security issues). (Toke and myself are pretty sure to come, Denis and Markus aren't yet.) What do people think about the three points above? Is there anything important that's missing? Is there anyone else who'd like to volunteer to do a presentation? Thanks, -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Feb 16 07:05:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266841ACED6 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:05:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.507 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.507 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f_MznxcGgSNB for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BFA01ACEC9 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:05:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3146; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1455635129; x=1456844729; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=3FvXZupeILoSHAC1uelR0bET8WJKPrUkTJ7cJXcQVE4=; b=EuPCvENulfcCSyE3IMDVZyt9bObCgl3XB4uMshLHfXU1/rxmYVjxNlyM /YpmQXC2xUxcTiGW1UJYblT0zUB98nrT8x45r8IIj/lsi8VV0/AJTaBsz WoSt/xo/5jwTsml1M8QW2q/aD7Z3Nhd0jjvX0vb/wxu5V548r8eIZcCPa w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ALBQAlOsNW/5ldJa1dgzpSbQa6NYFnI?= =?us-ascii?q?YVsAoE4OhIBAQEBAQEBgQqEQgEBBIEJAgEIDjgyJQIEARKIGg66KAEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?DAQEBAQEBARmGEYQ1hDCEPAWFTogShQ+EEAGFUoVRgjWCJoIniiaOPwEnCjGDY?= =?us-ascii?q?2oBh198AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,455,1449532800"; d="scan'208";a="238383719" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Feb 2016 15:05:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u1GF5SQo002503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:05:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:05:27 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:05:27 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Juliusz Chroboczek , "babel@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda Thread-Index: AQHRaLqZGeLIVys6/Uas+9F4b/PBO58u1joA Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:05:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> In-Reply-To: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <043C41AC6B38C14FAD9712174F7A737E@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:05:34 -0000 On 2/16/16, 8:04 AM, "babel on behalf of Juliusz Chroboczek" wrote: Juliusz: Hi! >I think it's time we start thinking about an agenda for the Babel BoF. >The following people have volunteered to make presentations: > > - Juliusz Chroboczek (general presentation and what needs to be done); > > - Toke H=F8iland-J=F8rgensen (implementation issues, in collaboration wi= th > Markus Stenberg); > > - Denis Ovsienko (security issues). > >(Toke and myself are pretty sure to come, Denis and Markus aren't yet.) > >What do people think about the three points above? Is there anything >important that's missing? Is there anyone else who'd like to volunteer to >do a presentation? Quoting from the BoF proposal [1] (as is now): "The goal of this BoF is to discuss the value and scope of the work required to create a standards track successor to RFCs 6126 and 7557, including discussing what technical topics need attention as part of advancement. The BoF will also discuss the applicability of Babel, in preparation for the working group producing a suitable applicability statement. The working group, when formed, will be responsible for evaluating the costs and benefits of changes to the existing work on Babel, as well as developing suitable security mechanisms." It looks like you may have "discuss the value and scope of the work required" covered in your presentation. I'm not sure if that includes "discussing what technical topics need attention as part of advancement". The "applicability of Babel" is not reflected in the agenda. BTW, "the working group producing a suitable applicability statement" is probably a good output, but the requirements to be satisfied by the successor documents should be clear. IOW, I would really like to see a discussion of deployments and their characteristics (which may contribute to the "technical topics (that) need attention" part above). Knowing what the WG will be doing is important. Probably more important is having people willing to work (write documents, review them, comment, implement, etc.). One of the questions the BoF Chairs will ask is: "who is going to do the work?" -- a hum or show of hands at the BoF in Buenos Aires is one way to "see" interest. There is also the possibility to participate remotely, so not everyone has to be in the room. Participation on the list is another. It concerns me that the participation on the list has been so low [2]. 50% of the messages posted to the list come from 2 people! With this message, the ADs will now have contributed about 10% of the rest! I know that number of messages are not the best indicator of anything -- the point is that we would love to see more people making comments (even volunteering to make presentations, for example) *on list*. It would also be ideal to have a little but more diversity in the draft authors going forward. Thanks! Alvaro. [1] http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/#Routing [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dbabel From nobody Tue Feb 16 07:19:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4FF1B2B37 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:19:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F-4kOIp5eW_7 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:19:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98F4E1B2B63 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:19:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1GFJ1Mm018652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:01 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/56228) with ESMTP id u1GFJ1kt014627; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:01 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34BF61F9D; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:01 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 9CHuMPzTK-Yy; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from trurl.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (col75-1-78-194-40-74.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88ECE61FA2; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" In-Reply-To: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:01 +0100 (CET) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:19:01 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56C33DE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 56C33DE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56C33DE5.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56C33DE5.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56C33DE5.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56C33DE5.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Cc: "babel@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:19:07 -0000 > It looks like you may have "discuss the value and scope of the work > required" covered in your presentation. I'm not sure if that includes > "discussing what technical topics need attention as part of advancement". Noted. > The "applicability of Babel" is not reflected in the agenda. BTW, "the > working group producing a suitable applicability statement" is probably a > good output, but the requirements to be satisfied by the successor > documents should be clear. IOW, I would really like to see a discussion > of deployments and their characteristics (which may contribute to the > "technical topics (that) need attention" part above). Have you had a chance to look at draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00, which I published yesterday? I'd be grateful for feedback on this document, since I'm not entirely clear what's expected from an applicability statement. > It would also be ideal to have a little but more diversity in the draft > authors going forward. Why is that? Is the success of a WG judged by the quality of the specifications produced, or by how many people shared the experience? Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author documents. However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-authors when I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code. -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Feb 16 07:46:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91ED1A6F45 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:46:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.507 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.507 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id khbfEWA4B-vR for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 565041A8892 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2203; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1455637599; x=1456847199; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=wOXF4EIgaIARZokKw4prB/XG16CpR/4PKrMuZvavqi4=; b=DwtcPPkgIo9zVd0tQytkWWkVPY8iUBdw6hCKcB5FpClwtLLZvu9HPKXA rJG0nBqq1CjiqtM1iVj5NmBYLvg5YRK2Tlzy2EHp0eiAh1F9QAA6BiuUN 0yCWe+JNfLKA2RAsVnfBjv1L4SE4M6FJTqDfo+rNr6HatMJz04cgF5rGV k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AMBQCVQ8NW/5BdJa1dgzpSbQa6NoFnI?= =?us-ascii?q?YVsAoE5OhIBAQEBAQEBgQqEQgEBAwE6PxACAQgOKBAyJQIEDgWIEggOukABAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQERBIYRhDWIbAWFTo0hhBABhVKFUYI1hE2KJo4/A?= =?us-ascii?q?ScKMYNjaodgfAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,455,1449532800"; d="scan'208";a="237568060" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Feb 2016 15:46:38 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u1GFkcl6013565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:46:38 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:46:37 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:46:37 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Juliusz Chroboczek Thread-Topic: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda Thread-Index: AQHRaLqZGeLIVys6/Uas+9F4b/PBO58u1joAgABXqgD//7PXAA== Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:46:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> In-Reply-To: <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "babel@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:46:41 -0000 On 2/16/16, 10:19 AM, "Juliusz Chroboczek" wrote: ... > >> The "applicability of Babel" is not reflected in the agenda. BTW, "the >> working group producing a suitable applicability statement" is probably >>a >> good output, but the requirements to be satisfied by the successor >> documents should be clear. IOW, I would really like to see a discussion >> of deployments and their characteristics (which may contribute to the >> "technical topics (that) need attention" part above). > >Have you had a chance to look at draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00, >which I published yesterday? I'd be grateful for feedback on this >document, >since I'm not entirely clear what's expected from an applicability >statement. No, I haven't. The way I see it (which shouldn't be taken as the final word) is that an applicability statement would tell us (in this case) when and how to use Babel. Maybe there are specific features or a recommended configuration for a specific deployment (mesh networks, or homenet, or...). I don't think you have to produce one document per case, unless the application and deployment model are so different that it warrants that. As an example, take a look at the "ROLL Applicability Statement Template". Just an example... https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-applicability-template > >> It would also be ideal to have a little but more diversity in the draft >> authors going forward. > >Why is that? Is the success of a WG judged by the quality of the >specifications produced, or by how many people shared the experience? > >Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author >documents. However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-authors when >I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code. I agree with you. The ideal would in fact be to see other people volunteer -- it reflects the interest and willingness of people to work. To be clear: I have to reason to doubt your ability. However, we're talking about forming a WG -- where ideally the group would work on all parts (write, review, implement, etc.). Alvaro. From nobody Tue Feb 16 08:54:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC491B2FAA for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 08:54:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p_CEvxC7DlKs for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 08:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E855B1B2F7D for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 08:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1GGsb3r011814; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:54:37 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A021F61FA3; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:54:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id dh78Incuen0P; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:54:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from trurl.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (col75-1-78-194-40-74.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C8E261FA2; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:54:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:54:45 +0100 Message-ID: <878u2kioiy.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" In-Reply-To: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:54:37 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56C3544D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56C3544D.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56C3544D.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Cc: "babel@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:54:43 -0000 >> Have you had a chance to look at draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00, >> which I published yesterday? > No, I haven't. Alvaro, it's 1.5 pages. It will take you 40 seconds to scan over that document. > I don't think you have to produce one document per case Thank goodness. -- Juliusz From nobody Tue Feb 16 09:56:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97811A9036 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:56:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.693 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.693 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yz2wt7FD_2Gp for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.tohojo.dk (mail2.tohojo.dk [77.235.48.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3780B1A01F6 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:56:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail2.tohojo.dk DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=201310; t=1455645404; bh=nBw7wQqDqUwuitepfnA2Dq51Q1iO0lw1EZW0CNYm39Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=QEwf63kPQoypSV34sy/BcgjfTPnu2QO5xwjVpiRt2o4SVj4uVleuUJftAKR6cSPwm a7Ui9g9UDviLA5841IQtPIAtFHIAx4gYAWriOiPWqTlBQw++T3/0ZvtI0b6U/WBfNs /QlQEJh7hFeL9zENoPhYd/VLq1UUcUkUYcTbzc7A= Sender: toke@toke.dk Received: by alrua-kau.kau.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9CAF7C40232; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 18:56:43 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 18:56:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Alvaro Retana's message of "Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:46:37 +0000") X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <87bn7ga690.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Cc: "babel@ietf.org" , Juliusz Chroboczek Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:56:50 -0000 "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" writes: >>Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author >>documents. However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-authors when >>I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code. > > I agree with you. The ideal would in fact be to see other people > volunteer -- it reflects the interest and willingness of people to > work. Well I'm certainly interested and planning to participate. In case that wasn't clear from me being on the proposed BoF agenda ;) -Toke From nobody Wed Feb 17 01:27:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697E41B3768 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 01:27:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.227 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.227 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IzRF6dNNozz4 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 01:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4F9F1B376E for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 01:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1H9QiK7023751; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:26:45 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk u1H9QiK7023751 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1455701205; bh=10nOvI90fucwD9SGylr3bTsE4EA=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=f62SCXVg8VxXJcZyttZko74LazLZHI0Cbd1JJHs2pDXTsXZAPLywuPIeNOshDrNgy Q/WAxe7Qa/lP927H39Nj2MK0QoykQD5mrIvv/tAnUHWRwm4aWdSxNb6l1NtncobImA vKJW1imm7eHPSRGRW85/NglAg6hqCGgMvXStUnVI= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id s1G9Qi3266001420xZ ret-id none; Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:26:45 +0000 Received: from [10.1.11.170] (firewall-lho-ext.management.janet.ac.uk [194.82.140.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1H9Qe9Q002475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:26:41 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:26:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87203498-9340-4043-8ADD-F2962CA17B1B@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Juliusz Chroboczek X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=s1G9Qi326600142000; tid=s1G9Qi3266001420xZ; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=3:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: u1H9QiK7023751 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Archived-At: Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "babel@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 09:27:01 -0000 Hi, > On 16 Feb 2016, at 15:19, Juliusz Chroboczek = wrote: >=20 >> It looks like you may have "discuss the value and scope of the work >> required" covered in your presentation. I'm not sure if that = includes >> "discussing what technical topics need attention as part of = advancement". >=20 > Noted. >=20 >> The "applicability of Babel" is not reflected in the agenda. BTW, = "the >> working group producing a suitable applicability statement" is = probably a >> good output, but the requirements to be satisfied by the successor >> documents should be clear. IOW, I would really like to see a = discussion >> of deployments and their characteristics (which may contribute to the >> "technical topics (that) need attention" part above). >=20 > Have you had a chance to look at = draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00, > which I published yesterday? I'd be grateful for feedback on this = document, > since I'm not entirely clear what's expected from an applicability = statement. >=20 >> It would also be ideal to have a little but more diversity in the = draft >> authors going forward. >=20 > Why is that? Is the success of a WG judged by the quality of the > specifications produced, or by how many people shared the experience? As a reminder of rfc5434, the general guidelines for a BoF to form a WG that has a high chance to be successful are: - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right group to attempt solving it. Check. - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.). Not clear, yet. - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be. Not wholly. Getting there. - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e., proposed documents) are the right set. Not yet defined.=20 - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its charter in a timely fashion). This is generally where having more people involved helps. > Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author > documents. However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-authors = when > I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code. Well, you are the main dynamo of the proposed WG :) Tim >=20 > -- Juliusz >=20 > _______________________________________________ > babel mailing list > babel@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel From nobody Fri Feb 19 04:31:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C134F1A9085 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:31:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.384 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.384 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M5s6mQY090pg for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93AD31A89D3 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g62so66669468wme.0 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:31:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=GXEJKSokXYDP2+Xh+PE0wxH+PV8fVYFQoHyb1EgvcqE=; b=gDxFWmsdMOREMevOzp2ksEkfeKKHX332b8iIWCGCWKZzJwq1OhnR2gZ6JM398thxIT ktD7iJJ6mTiXBS/D1jjJ/r4+YXW2rD/jIxEt8MhoyBed1U7JwkF1LWaVJJEZYhg7B/If BTlawO6qZZyqmR8+8Jlq2LKJ3k5okQYGXTe+8rbeV8BmRNRUTcL9uiM59J2UTVmia8ES 14qpVDQ9BPfBV2MtwdaQD1h8/rekne/T2jy7DtDXVHEe3iR9elCANL+DjEKPlv6Q+z4V F3xvu7I2FFrCUdjaLDlftlEZoEslgE0vRA0xn39EQ7PArIqVA+kTA4N651Fn0tw9rRGN C74Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=GXEJKSokXYDP2+Xh+PE0wxH+PV8fVYFQoHyb1EgvcqE=; b=bzXsSIe7VMb1CFtvBtsRlaUF7M6rdx5NL8+M/wBPgbQiD9RHPQkWeP45rKy4XUyisU AwsaCxjKTU/4STY/5o6P5B4+60IcFpzCYJqRbtAJvxSttjJGEoddF8aEn8LbgzX4cdMD UVcY52ejUmeFl4CBncvaV21mEl46+QX98fIuNh49ANHsEed18F4BQqEWiiGtDYW14oM4 HGA5hztQINLlo+iZI4AEpEqLHzGJnW+Ra8zqIc/ofU2O8RFIXZOOfyWu5r8zwM1LtFu3 +ivtLLddd86oA+A2YPL4Lk9mniOuTYneRpGVKT2hq/fdU414BrakjfM2a+iu2weBS9NU xgbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTPdVZeBWJBwddaywWYHqPrjrN6MaEu1hvJ3PFTvTebxu5hH0Ok9rdPgCExylIg46PpUk7H40RiIeWwgyHD X-Received: by 10.194.184.234 with SMTP id ex10mr12340272wjc.8.1455885069885; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:31:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.230.20 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:30:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Gabriel Kerneis Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:30:30 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86cc1e6d0be3052c1ea826 Archived-At: Cc: "babel@ietf.org" , Juliusz Chroboczek Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:31:13 -0000 --047d7b86cc1e6d0be3052c1ea826 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > On 2/16/16, 10:19 AM, "Juliusz Chroboczek" > wrote: > >Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author > >documents. However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-authors whe= n > >I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code. > > I agree with you. The ideal would in fact be to see other people > volunteer -- it reflects the interest and willingness of people to work. I have been a silent reader so far, but I am in fact very interested in seeing babel move forward. I've reviewed most (all?) existing Babel-related IETF drafts, and I firmly intend to keep doing so. For those of you who do not know me, I am maintain the Babel package in openwrt, as well as the babelweb visualization tool. I also had a secret plan to implement RFC 7298 for the reference implementation, but that plan failed miserably when I realized a typical day is only 24 hours long. I will very likely not be able to attend IETF meetings in person (unless one happens in Paris =E2=80=94 which a rough interpolation predicts around = IETF 103). But I would be very happy to discuss drafts, and even help with authoring or experimenting if necessary, over this mailing-list. The main reason I have not said anything so far is that it is still a bit unclear to me how exactly to contribute effectively, since I am not very familiar with the expectations of a IETF WG. A list of actions items would definitely help, and I am glad to see that people who understand more than I do seem to be making progress on that front. Best, Gabriel --047d7b86cc1e6d0be3052c1ea826 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Feb 16, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) <= aretana@cisco.com> wrote:
On 2/16/16, 10:19 AM, "Juliusz= Chroboczek" <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
wrote:
>Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author<= br> >documents.=C2=A0 However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-autho= rs when
>I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code= .

I agree with you.=C2=A0 The ideal would in fact be to see other peop= le
volunteer -- it reflects the interest and willingness of people to work.

I have been a silent reader so far, but I am = in fact very interested in seeing babel move forward. I've reviewed mos= t (all?) existing Babel-related IETF drafts, and I firmly intend to keep do= ing so. For those of you who do not know me, I am maintain the Babel packag= e in openwrt, as well as the babelweb visualization tool. I also had a secr= et plan to implement=C2=A0RFC 7298 for the reference implementation, but th= at plan failed miserably when I realized a typical day is only 24 hours lon= g. =C2=A0

I will very likely not be able to attend= IETF meetings in person (unless one happens in Paris =E2=80=94 which a rou= gh interpolation predicts around IETF 103). But I would be very happy to di= scuss drafts, and even help with authoring or experimenting if necessary, o= ver this mailing-list. The main reason I have not said anything so far is t= hat it is still a bit unclear to me how exactly to contribute effectively, = since I am not very familiar with the expectations of a IETF WG. A list of = actions items would definitely help, and I am glad to see that people who u= nderstand more than I do seem to be making progress on that front.

Best,
Gabriel
--047d7b86cc1e6d0be3052c1ea826-- From nobody Fri Feb 19 04:51:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85FE1A1B40 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:51:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.821 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.821 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0KIUEsBOanen for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from johanna2.inet.fi (mta-out1.inet.fi [62.71.2.199]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94C61A014F for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 04:51:42 -0800 (PST) RazorGate-KAS: Status: not_detected RazorGate-KAS: Rate: 0 RazorGate-KAS: Envelope from: RazorGate-KAS: Version: 5.5.3 RazorGate-KAS: LuaCore: 80 2014-11-10_18-01-23 260f8afb9361da3c7edfd3a8e3a4ca908191ad29 RazorGate-KAS: Lua profiles 69136 [Nov 12 2014] RazorGate-KAS: Method: none Received: from poro.lan (80.220.86.47) by johanna2.inet.fi (9.0.002.03-2-gbe5d057) (authenticated as stenma-47) id 56C6D71B0004CAB8; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:51:37 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Markus Stenberg In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:51:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> To: Gabriel Kerneis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Archived-At: Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "babel@ietf.org" , Juliusz Chroboczek Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:51:45 -0000 On 19.2.2016, at 14.30, Gabriel Kerneis wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) = wrote: > On 2/16/16, 10:19 AM, "Juliusz Chroboczek" = > wrote: > >Alvaro, I'd be glad to see people volunteer to author or co-author > >documents. However, I have no intention to go soliciting co-authors = when > >I'd much rather be spending my time writing specifications and code. > I agree with you. The ideal would in fact be to see other people > volunteer -- it reflects the interest and willingness of people to = work. >=20 > I have been a silent reader so far, but I am in fact very interested = in seeing babel move forward. I've reviewed most (all?) existing = Babel-related IETF drafts, and I firmly intend to keep doing so. For = those of you who do not know me, I am maintain the Babel package in = openwrt, as well as the babelweb visualization tool. I also had a secret = plan to implement RFC 7298 for the reference implementation, but that = plan failed miserably when I realized a typical day is only 24 hours = long. =20 +1 from me as well. I am mostly avid reader as well, although I have been known to hack = Python ([1]) during IETFs. I am not actually personally 100% convinced = of the need for the WG, given the specs _seem_ readable enough to me = anyway already, but if people consider e.g. experimental -> standard = track work worth doing, I can at least offer to review the work if = nothing else. Unless IETF shows up in Helsinki, I am not sure of my future live = participation though; my third stint at being active in IETF is drawing = to a close I think :) (DNCP+HNCP are finally =E2=80=98almost done=E2=80=99= .) Cheers, -Markus [1] https://github.com/fingon/pybabel= From nobody Fri Feb 19 12:38:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DDC1B31D2 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:38:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QGBovJ59zznN for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:38:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C96C21B30BB for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:38:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4088; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1455914321; x=1457123921; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=cOS2iMu7xHMmkO1fT0Eaj+zT3ToxMGD0D3ymbQKdupM=; b=l8NvDZGHTOFM9tr50E2+RAC+FhClRjVuWiUGo39ZWEAE6n5aJy15QK8u 2HU3Mfa1vphMDYa5ECzn2/8Sh7jVAQ6PsScZvbFG9FzmgKaGPvzSl6kZo 64Xy+qfSjramhUdyJP8R6ORHs6mcdD2wzyvJbE6Cc55muFb43iTn+QD8x g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A9BwDAfMdW/4sNJK1egm5MgT8GvDWGD?= =?us-ascii?q?QKBVzwQAQEBAQEBAWQnQRIBg24BAQRuBgUQAgEIBDsHMhQRAgQOBYgavBYBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEVhhKEO4hvBY1ihRGEFAGIAYVcjnOORwE3K4IDG?= =?us-ascii?q?YFIaoR3gkh9AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.22,472,1449532800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="72873530" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 19 Feb 2016 20:38:40 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u1JKce9G007570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:38:40 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:38:39 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:38:39 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Gabriel Kerneis Thread-Topic: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda Thread-Index: AQHRaLqZGeLIVys6/Uas+9F4b/PBO58u1joAgABXqgD//7PXAIAE1AgAgAA0jgA= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:38:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oabgisy9.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D2ECCF4F111B1Caretanaciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "babel@ietf.org" , Juliusz Chroboczek Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:38:45 -0000 --_000_D2ECCF4F111B1Caretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/19/16, 7:30 AM, "Gabriel Kerneis" > wrote: Gabriel: Hi! But I would be very happy to discuss drafts, and even help with authoring o= r experimenting if necessary, over this mailing-list. The main reason I hav= e not said anything so far is that it is still a bit unclear to me how exac= tly to contribute effectively, since I am not very familiar with the expect= ations of a IETF WG. You got the essence above: discuss, comment, ask questions, publish drafts.= ..all on the mailing list. Most of the work for any IETF mailing list is d= one on the list - even though we have in-person meetings (3/year), all impo= rtant decisions should be confirmed on the list. It is not a requirement to attend the in-person meetings, or even for the W= G to meet then, and there are very good tools to participate remotely. It is important to "see" people at this stage of the process (potential for= mation) because we want a group of people to work on whatever the WG is cha= rtered with. Again, participation on the list, publication of documents, p= articipation on the meetings (even if remote), etc. are all ways to show in= terest and willingness to work. Thanks! Alvaro. --_000_D2ECCF4F111B1Caretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2/19/16, 7:30 AM, "Gabriel Kerneis" <kerneis@google.com> wrote:

Gabriel:

Hi!

= But I would be very happy to discuss drafts, and even help with authoring or e= xperimenting if necessary, over this mailing-list. The main reason I have n= ot said anything so far is that it is still a bit unclear to me how exactly= to contribute effectively, since I am not very familiar with the expectations of a IETF WG.

You got the essence above: discuss, comment, ask questions, publish dr= afts…all on the mailing list.  Most of the work for any IETF mai= ling list is done on the list — even though we have in-person meeting= s (3/year), all important decisions should be confirmed on the list.

It is not a requirement to attend the in-person meetings, or even for = the WG to meet then, and there are very good tools to participate remotely.=

It is important to "see" people at this stage of the process= (potential formation) because we want a group of people to work on whateve= r the WG is chartered with.  Again, participation on the list, publica= tion of documents, participation on the meetings (even if remote), etc. are all ways to show interest and willingness to wo= rk.

Thanks!

Alvaro.
--_000_D2ECCF4F111B1Caretanaciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Feb 24 06:58:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFAB1B2C4D for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 06:58:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IZirzBQgIrD1 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 06:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A05AF1B2C39 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 06:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1OEwFhe030289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:15 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/56228) with ESMTP id u1OEwFGC028929 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:15 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6086E61FA1 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:15 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id na7WJxC_87zA for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from trurl.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (col75-1-78-194-40-74.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0140561FA2 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87wppu88ah.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: babel@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> References: <871t8ckdqv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:15 +0100 (CET) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:58:15 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56CDC507.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 56CDC507.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56CDC507.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56CDC507.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56CDC507.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56CDC507.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Subject: Re: [babel] Babel BoF: fixing an agenda X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:58:19 -0000 Sorry to follow up on myself. I haven't yet received feedback from the ADs on either the wiki entry for the BoF or the applicability statement. I've updated the wiki entry with a preliminary agenda, let's see how it goes. I'm not a security person; while I can do a quick presentation on the security of Babel, it would be better if somebody competent volunteered. -- Juliusz From nobody Thu Feb 25 10:00:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B841B2F2F for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:00:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TwAdyOwGZ9VI for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x230.google.com (mail-ob0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 435231B2F2C for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-x230.google.com with SMTP id dm2so55218023obb.2 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:00:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=4U7tFH+hHmZTOprZJahjr/+m+A+ZwnT/W4PSWzSPpNQ=; b=kma2U/o84hF8gRCUfvY2ReGGqe93azdJngFntiRJ0tofX1XMPxvrobH4XkkoNFNKwU X355mWZZ12tXrEfMeY1qaIjUraJflioTyFQlC9ZoKI33z5/axVIIoUVoW+/daAyh5h8U NilkayEDsI96JHwiWo/jMTk/q4lELIjzr1LyJrcu6DpVpetrfMvZpbeqZCfnJBEn4nW2 /pdOQj5wRx/pS+TXNJixFbrp3X/9eIOR0hLPhUbP7iguMTbZ6vtBXMzI+eJDnrOdMG4j M1DTdSBO3W/FGBNb70otkzfCqVtbE2DcYxB8dj6DEotb7qMUFmexoRUHzMCa6AIDPDxG xnPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=4U7tFH+hHmZTOprZJahjr/+m+A+ZwnT/W4PSWzSPpNQ=; b=XKu2bjkLCFrAMOfxa5rB72ZKXIDt1HJKEYiuzWPiGiML8hB1NOZPj6SBUdnIGhI6qF 1A1iF3x7ndMcF/OVXMN1c1FlfICHpcInqpSZwHocuiNNGM/p4jynFO0v9Gk0L9SfGK7f l7W9cO4QjQQyOMIkvXBXndcCwwB4NIUXHtbuh6+rzhyj1js7PUcHwrrYP4/WIp82wtaF kCUc5fvfo6fnjF8z9vJvVuRiqqdCV+kObdANKTgBKagXPRzLVLRvnoTcqQhdWudhN9y4 v6wI7/c9uZuZT/aAlI5uBBnJ4iKyJfleIcD9w71Wn/eKkywNGpOYbIBZbr9Fpxv/dB13 Ja1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORs6fZBymI3zc6lD54P/+veWNfeu2MFMZS+Xs+ZcPImKe99VOVX6sKcMeIZIYZCkeJfQ76tr3kEpz2gOA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.233.131 with SMTP id tw3mr40305489oec.35.1456423226662; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.54.162 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:00:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7i7fi6hvq3.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> References: <7i7fi6hvq3.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:00:26 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Juliusz Chroboczek Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1a31c1169dd052c9bf5eb Archived-At: Cc: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, babel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [babel] Applicability statement for Babel X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:00:29 -0000 --001a11c1a31c1169dd052c9bf5eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Juliusz, Thanks for writing this draft. So, if I can summarize briefly from it: a) Babel can deal with prefix-based addressing as well as flat addressing. b) Because Babel is distance-vector, it can deal with unstable metrics. c) It is small and has little configuration, so works well in unmanaged small networks. d) Babel is not a good fit for large stable networks (IS-IS or OSPF better) or low-power networks (due to periodic updates) or pure mesh networks (better protocols exist). Regards, Alia On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Juliusz Chroboczek < jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > Dear Alia, dear all, > > I've just submitted > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00 > > which a very rough draft of an applicability statement for Babel. I've > done my best to be concise, I've managed to stick to 1.5 pages (not > counting boilerplate and references). It's a -00, and we have some time > left before Buenos Aires, so contributions, criticisms and even outright > disagreements are very much welcome at this stage. > > Russ, could you please check whether I'm citing the right document for > EIGRP? > > Thanks, > > -- Juliusz > --001a11c1a31c1169dd052c9bf5eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Juliusz,

Thanks for writing this dra= ft. =C2=A0 So, if I can summarize briefly from it:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = a) Babel can deal with prefix-based addressing as well as flat addressing.<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 b) Because Babel is distance-vector, it can deal wi= th unstable metrics.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 c) It is small and has little = configuration, so works well in unmanaged small networks.
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 d) Babel is not a good fit for large stable networks (IS-IS or OSPF = better) or low-power
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 networks (due to= periodic updates) or pure mesh networks (better protocols exist).

Regards,
Alia

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Juliusz= Chroboczek <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrot= e:
Dear Alia, dear all,

I've just submitted

=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-00

which a very rough draft of an applicability statement for Babel.=C2=A0 I&#= 39;ve
done my best to be concise, I've managed to stick to 1.5 pages (not
counting boilerplate and references).=C2=A0 It's a -00, and we have som= e time
left before Buenos Aires, so contributions, criticisms and even outright disagreements are very much welcome at this stage.

Russ, could you please check whether I'm citing the right document for<= br> EIGRP?

Thanks,

-- Juliusz

--001a11c1a31c1169dd052c9bf5eb-- From nobody Thu Feb 25 11:11:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259151B31D2 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:11:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a3QWzPUcdoKj for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34CC11B31C4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1PJBgBv013918; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:42 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D6761F9D; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:41 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id YlKCcD539lDn; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (unknown [172.23.36.54]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C55261FA2; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr) by lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1aZ1K7-00063H-NR; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:39 +0100 Message-ID: <7i1t80a9lg.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Alia Atlas In-Reply-To: References: <7i7fi6hvq3.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:11:42 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56CF51EE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56CF51EE.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56CF51EE.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Cc: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, babel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [babel] Applicability statement for Babel X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:11:46 -0000 Hi Alia, Thanks for the (almost perfect) summary. I'll try to produce a -01 with the few points you didn't find clear. > b) Because Babel is distance-vector, it can deal with unstable metrics. Babel can deal with unstable metrics for many reasons, most notably due to its loop-avoidance properties but also to the ability to delay "minor" updates (which is due to loop avoidance) and the lack of a traumatic active phase. Thanks for the comment, it makes me realise that this needs to be spelled out. > Babel is not a good fit for large stable networks (IS-IS or OSPF better) Or EIGRP, which produces minuscule amounts of control traffic while giving more flexibility in filtering and aggregation. I'm not going to spell that out in -01, since that would belong in an EIGRP applicability statement. > pure mesh networks (better protocols exist). I think Babel is fine for pure meshes, it's just that the niche is already occupied by a very reasonable protocol (OLSRv2 with DAT, OLSRv2 is standards track, DAT is experimental). Here's some recent experimental data where Babel is compared against a number of specialised mesh protocols (including OLSRv2 with DAT): http://battlemesh-test-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/v8/2-the-crossed-streams-jeopardy.html I'll add some references on this subject in -01. Thanks for your help, -- Juliusz From nobody Mon Feb 29 10:12:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299581B3942 for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:12:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.15 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ozNJP_ZBrZFu for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:12:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D01C41B3933 for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u1TIBxlo003888; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:59 +0100 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2ED61FA2; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:59 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id Jd3hDuW7Qgc8; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (unknown [172.23.36.54]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45BA361FA1; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr) by lanthane.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1aaSIX-00048K-K8; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:57 +0100 Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:57 +0100 Message-ID: <7iy4a3fksy.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Alia Atlas In-Reply-To: References: <7i7fi6hvq3.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:11:59 +0100 (CET) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 56D489EF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 56D489EF.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 56D489EF.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Archived-At: Cc: babel@ietf.org Subject: Re: [babel] Applicability statement for Babel X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:12:04 -0000 It's only once in 4.12 years that one has a chance to submit a draft on a 29th of February. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-01 -- Juliusz From nobody Mon Feb 29 10:22:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548561B395E for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.384 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.384 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dibbDgkQVjaQ for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D9391B3950 for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id l68so1470450wml.1 for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:22:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HlI2RR+Q5KUytww18ekC+dZGkRgJkXpFZ52vVAhqAOc=; b=RGdDhUyxunw7xpj/5b8auLllEIDQvokcoP4Fdx+T0NMf0n69Q2gMN8VMwdCasrhRZr knG7LRy5ut0gDkfQP6R63cP2wUTPKA5QtsQSSoSAY7j87XYdpuTmJ/UzTfSG/TPhQ84I dNWaOP0t3Zc2pGx+8LLv5l+be9D9e1HlGqNByVBce+/fjc+kWbrg24rC9JEg2I6zvcSN xAfQPvZC4jfiLXY2HASIhsQakqe+sII9aU5SwubmDwi9koBTuC+eM0A+khMQeFBm4HLY cUQDggnRpBJ7hHLZd7e4hQ2Xd0qT/+p+wpyhh3rrtsQ8BRnvu09zcR8nmEEGcO5cVvYC C8hA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HlI2RR+Q5KUytww18ekC+dZGkRgJkXpFZ52vVAhqAOc=; b=MDV9FOeU1U28wEUfhC4OowOca5vcmG5+LmJa/5oU9lDC6jdSjTyyTeu6LJcRTwkF5c wpPraakvF75s4g69RlctRr+UXVWJtpmvhuXyuP7flQlo5UWYgYHf/Y7imFbr1hLUevrM A+XTEKTiRKrNKejRnst8iG9VayprFwafq87OuArY4yA+mgAGyh3KWpidBekRw0sZhy/y S/Ax7fpCgvVJcx7uKoXckOm5FR1n+LBcQHO1u5WVk2pZf563wAGoeaX/JsICDN+aJccj uVG4gCturVVM3WXNf6hzw2ssTGVMz0uc7e5SqpAYX6uRmVOCX1XZF4BVbG7DJf5JOpk+ TPVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJI+yGVy/NQrjdMy/4RERU/Yqn7+gKaiF0Cf6EvGv67WxupfpZ4c9Ud7IsAg22mZEqhtLPJVUMxe+LYpR3Rn X-Received: by 10.195.12.113 with SMTP id ep17mr15773081wjd.102.1456770163509; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:22:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.230.20 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:22:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7iy4a3fksy.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> References: <7i7fi6hvq3.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <7iy4a3fksy.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Gabriel Kerneis Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:22:03 +0100 Message-ID: To: Juliusz Chroboczek Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb04c421dd5bc052cecbced Archived-At: Cc: babel@ietf.org, Alia Atlas Subject: Re: [babel] Applicability statement for Babel X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:22:46 -0000 --047d7bb04c421dd5bc052cecbced Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek < jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chroboczek-babel-applicability-01 Looks good. A couple nits: Babel is able to deal with both classical, prefix-based ("Internet-style") > routing and flat ("mesh-style") over non-transitive link technologies. I believe you still want "routing" in the second part (deleted by mistake?). albeit > This introduces a contradiction, whereas there is none ("a more efficient replacement" is not incompatible "with good support for wireless links", quite the reverse). Best, Gabriel --047d7bb04c421dd5bc052cecbced Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On M= on, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@pps.univ-= paris-diderot.fr> wrote:
=C2=A0=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chr= oboczek-babel-applicability-01

Looks go= od. A couple nits:

Babel is able to de= al with both classical, prefix-based ("Internet-style") routing a= nd flat ("mesh-style") over non-transitive link technologies.

I believe you still want "routing" i= n the second part (deleted by mistake?).

albeit

This introduces a contradicti= on, whereas there is none ("a more efficient replacement" is not = incompatible "with good support for wireless links", quite the re= verse).

=C2=A0Best,
Gabriel
<= /div>
--047d7bb04c421dd5bc052cecbced-- From nobody Mon Feb 29 10:24:19 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005561B3963 for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ildlr3ZM2GqR for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x230.google.com (mail-ob0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 539551B393F for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-x230.google.com with SMTP id ts10so142738761obc.1 for ; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=3sei637vZrWDjtVBtAuGMt9hSnAYT0RkPWkVd3MiMP8=; b=E7e0f7m7Hgpqu344ARiNdk/J6UDynztOBT7+/Muv+KptOg6zyO+AxwpiSuGHDcTZfO m3rZu4jTg2omkeutlVjIKMk6AkBRM0LIdQyCSgdjy2BLKW/4vVnBLZ567gx00/WsmeES y7p7VPA5gvV5+wJm53u4ha7q3ap7SNswzpqXehrAkrOloGtAIAZdX8E/o414bK4ogeGx 4HuhOlNsTHf+lU0MMXUs5w061UeGQXA8Kz3LIZKAFwghkQuhG69b7rMiPm25Jf5P8azX 9a5vW7DxgItGxrhGBH0kMPrA2963bDfc44WORR+mpUJ7muxMcSv27rHk6vyFhha9zrbX gM5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=3sei637vZrWDjtVBtAuGMt9hSnAYT0RkPWkVd3MiMP8=; b=eJr911OT6NbH/pYJDnLf58EQM30cyhKQNyJPeiN/j5wsVfgrVr/gBooYe4HN7c5k2m 3LzxGouEpCd01/WSeiMuKRUXSwlACt0BgSQ7Y89xnBIWFYEw9TzuEfar+BhUF/D8K1zk 5GxIvjYh+U9NdVQ/rSTqB4M8LiMnldKU06mM4kADiVEKGGZCSGXhSitU5BxITYU9Madh eYFSReh6npZZCiKMg+D9JVqtlEWFkk2Gm2oE/MOJoeYEDolpfLct7LReZ5yFw5eIxTxr pQ0s/yn1YcSuBDVrUY5wt72tB1wC1NANmu5xbrdOiBndvN8r6UMJ5e/c+J+c4MivlEY1 tM3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJ8Z8DUEOAq2DUibbfoXmJBAc71W8yld3eDO3KrY3r3DnWMmVof73X7wBCccvj+7gohDqDufCXZ/LRgZQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.28.40 with SMTP id y8mr12650528obg.54.1456770255781; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.54.162 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.54.162 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:24:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:24:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: babel@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158aa069d8f11052cecc11b Archived-At: Subject: [babel] Babel BoF approved X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:24:18 -0000 --089e0158aa069d8f11052cecc11b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The babel BoF had been approved. I am expecting a proposed draft charter soon that clearly described the work to be done. I hope for excellent and energetic participation on this mailing list. One open question about which I continue to have skepticism and doubt is whether anyone except Juliusz is intending to write or edit any drafts. Reviews are excellent, but a healthy working group needs multiple contributors to the creation as well as the review. I do plan to soon send a detailed review and comments on RFC 6126. I would strongly encourage others to do the same to help clarify the work to be done. For this BoF, I do understand that we may have significantly more remote participation and I would strongly encourage some discussing of what would be most amenable and productive. All sessions do have MeetEcho and jabber, of course. Finally, I am still considering whom to select for the second BoF chair. Joel Halpern has kindly agreed to serve as one of the BoF chairs. If you have suggestions, please unicast them to me. Good luck! Alia --089e0158aa069d8f11052cecc11b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The babel BoF had been approved.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am expecting = a proposed draft charter soon that clearly described the work to be done.= =C2=A0=C2=A0 I hope for excellent and energetic participation on this maili= ng list.=C2=A0 One open question about which I continue to have skepticism = and doubt is whether anyone except Juliusz is intending to write or edit an= y drafts.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Reviews are excellent, but a healthy working group ne= eds multiple contributors to the creation as well as the review.

I do plan to soon send a detailed review and comments on RFC= 6126.=C2=A0 I would strongly encourage others to do the same to help clari= fy the work to be done.

For this BoF, I do understand that we may have significantly= more remote participation and I would strongly encourage some discussing o= f what would be most amenable and productive.=C2=A0 All sessions do have Me= etEcho and jabber, of course.

Finally,=C2=A0 I am still considering whom to select for the= second BoF chair.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Joel Halpern has kindly agreed to serve as o= ne of the BoF chairs.=C2=A0 If you have suggestions, please unicast them to= me.

Good luck!
Alia

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