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From: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>
To: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "nvo3-chairs@ietf.org" <nvo3-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG adoption call of OAM drafts in NVO3
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 13:56:52 -0700
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To: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, sfc@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org
Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>,  "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>,  "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" <draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
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Hi David,
please find my notes in-line tagged GIM2>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:32 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:

> Greg ,
>
> I have a lot to say on what you write below , but let put the discussion
> in the right content.
>
> The main thing is:
>
> I think yours work and the OAM design team should be focus to define the
> OAM related data and  the OAM mechanism and there is a lot to do on this
> area .and try to make it uniform on all the diffenet encapsulations
> (NVO3,BEIR,SFC) and not dealing with the encapsulation itself. By this yo=
u
> mixed all things up and we will achieve nothing .
>
GIM2>>  I feel that you assume that the proposed solution is for NVO3 only
and thus had not thought about SFC and BIER. Dave Dolson had pointed out
that the proposed solution is beneficial for SFC.

>
>
>
>
> Specifically:
>
> 1)The extension header (container) concept was discussed on the encap
> design team . the content was to make VXLN-GPE extendable (While it is no=
t
> by adding NSH  header to it and was rejected because of the bytes overhea=
d
> (less bytes than your proposal).
>
Now you like to take encap protocol with build  in extension and add to it
> extension header ?  what we will do with other extensions like security a=
dd
> extension header as well  ? This doesn=E2=80=99t make sense and not neede=
d in all
> the cases
>
GIM2>> What are these cases that don't require active OAM?

> 2) the total header length on the base header is important and help for
> parsing in all the cases especially when you don=E2=80=99t like to deal w=
ith the
> extensions .
>
> 3) 8 bytes overhead is important
>
GIM2>> To be precise, if I look at TLV-based approach then the difference
is, at most, 4 bytes.

> 4)and adding ether type to the parsing graph is costly and can complicate
> things especially if you need to parse options(TLV)  before
>
GIM2>> What EtherType? Who says that active OAM must be combined with TLVs?
The benefit, in my opinion, of using Overlay Associated Channel, is that it
is self-contained and processing can be offloaded once the packet was
identified as OAC packet.

>
>
> Thx
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 10:44 PM
>
> *To:* David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
> *Cc:* Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>; Bocci,
> Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>;
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes
> in-line and tagged GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg  ,
>
> PSB
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM
> *To:* David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
> *Cc:* Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>; Bocci,
> Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>;
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> thank you for sharing your opinion.
>
> Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use
> extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM?
>
> David> yes
>
>  Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you think a
> middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?
>
> I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if it i=
s
> not addressed to it at all.
>
> David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ?  so change the
> draft to include just that . On the current  draft I see all kinds of OAM
>
> GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Channel for an
> overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or OAM. OA=
M
> methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Performance
> Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault
> Management are:
>
>    - failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Continuity but may
>    include Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network;
>    - defect localization;
>    - Alarm Indication Signal;
>    - Remote Defect Indication.
>
> Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration,
> Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.
>
> Performance Measurement usually supports the following:
>
>    - one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement;
>    - one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement;
>    - Synthetic Loss Measurement.
>
> Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually
> combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.
>
> The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common set of
> OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. I s=
ee
> such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I
> believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually
> used to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation.
> On-demand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects.
>
>
>
> > While  I agree with you regarding  Middle box and proactive OAM .The
> same can be achieve with the protocol extensions
>
> Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable to use
> of active OAM.
>
> David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include
>  extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions f=
or
> such protocol and not innovate  extra header  that use for protocols
> without extensions.
>
> GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable length header
> mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some network=
s
> choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel header
> with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as
> common solution for either type of overlay encapsulation.
>
>
>
> David
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
> I am not supporting the adoption
>
> I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protocol
>
>
>
> This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options  the protocol   is
> supporting!
>
>
>
> This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the
> extensions/options
>
> That node/middlbox  don not  need to be part of the extensions/ option ca=
n
> jump directly  to the overlay by reading the base header length only
>
>
>
> Thx
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fioccola
> Giuseppe
> *Sent:* Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM
> *To:* Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <
> nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have read the draft and support its adoption.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Giuseppe
>
>
>
> *Da:* nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org <nvo3-bounces@ietf.org>] *Per
> conto di *Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
> *Inviato:* venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35
> *A:* NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> *Oggetto:* [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> This email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam=
-header-03
> in the NVO3 working group.
>
>
>
> Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list.
>
> Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an NVO3
> working group document.
>
>
>
> Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the draf=
t.
>
>
>
> Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to this
> draft?
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see
> RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond to
>
> this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>
> IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The
>
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response
>
> has been received from each author and each contributor.
>
>
>
> This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Matthew and Sam
>
> Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
> persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
> dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualo=
ra
> abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d=
i
> darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua
> distruzione, Grazie.
>
> *This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain
> privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination,
> copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments an=
d
> advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.*
>
> *[image: rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mai=
l
> se non =C3=A8 necessario.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi David,<div>please find my notes in-line tagged GIM2&gt;=
&gt;.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:32 AM,=
 David Mozes <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davidm@mellanox.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">davidm@mellanox.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_6455808248742731080WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Greg ,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I have a lot to say on what you write below , but l=
et put the discussion in the right content.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">The main thing is:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I think yours work and the OAM design team should b=
e focus to define the OAM related data and=C2=A0 the OAM mechanism and ther=
e is a lot to do on this area .and try to make it uniform
 on all the diffenet encapsulations (NVO3,BEIR,SFC) and not dealing with th=
e encapsulation itself. By this you mixed all things up and we will achieve=
 nothing .</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; =C2=A0I fee=
l that you assume that the proposed solution is for NVO3 only and thus had =
not thought about SFC and BIER. Dave Dolson had pointed out that the propos=
ed solution is beneficial for SFC.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_645580824874=
2731080WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Specifically:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">1)The extension header (container) concept was disc=
ussed on the encap design team . the content was to make VXLN-GPE extendabl=
e (While it is not by adding NSH=C2=A0 header to it
 and was rejected because of the bytes overhead (less bytes than your propo=
sal).</span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_64558082487=
42731080WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Now you like to take encap pr=
otocol with build=C2=A0 in extension and add to it extension header ?=C2=A0=
 what we will do with other extensions like security add extension header a=
s well=C2=A0
 ? This doesn=E2=80=99t make sense and not needed in all the cases</span></=
p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; What are these cases that don&=
#39;t require active OAM?=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div la=
ng=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_645580824874273=
1080WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">2) the total header length on the base header is im=
portant and help for parsing in all the cases especially when you don=E2=80=
=99t like to deal with the extensions .<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">3) 8 bytes overhead is important</span></p></div></=
div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; To be precise, if I look at TLV-based ap=
proach then the difference is, at most, 4 bytes.</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"=
m_6455808248742731080WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">4)and adding ether type to the parsing graph is cos=
tly and can complicate things especially if you need to parse options(TLV)=
=C2=A0 before=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Wh=
at EtherType? Who says that active OAM must be combined with TLVs? The bene=
fit, in my opinion, of using Overlay Associated Channel, is that it is self=
-contained and processing can be offloaded once the packet was identified a=
s OAC packet.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=
=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_6455808248742731080WordSection1"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thx
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">David
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Greg Mirsky [mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 10:44 PM</span></p><div><div class=
=3D"h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> David Mozes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davidm@mellanox.com" target=3D=
"_blank">davidm@mellanox.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fioccola Giuseppe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@teleco=
mitalia.it" target=3D"_blank">giuseppe.fioccola@<wbr>telecomitalia.it</a>&g=
t;; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&gt;; NVO3 &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:nvo3@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">nvo3@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ooam=
dt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt=
-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=
=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi David,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Plea=
se find my notes in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:davidm@mellanox.com" target=3D"_blank">davidm@mellanox.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg=C2=A0 ,</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">PSB</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Greg Mirsky [mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Mozes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davidm@mellanox.com" target=3D=
"_blank">davidm@mellanox.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fioccola Giuseppe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@teleco=
mitalia.it" target=3D"_blank">giuseppe.fioccola@<wbr>telecomitalia.it</a>&g=
t;; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&gt;; NVO3
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">nvo3@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">
draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt=
-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi David,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for sharing your opinion.<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Could you please clarify your position. You propose =
to use extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David&gt; yes
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0Let us look at proactive continuity check betw=
een NVEs. Why you think a middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look=
 into payload if it is not addressed to it at all.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David&gt; Are you limit the header ju=
st for proactive OAM ? =C2=A0so change the draft to include just that
 . On the current =C2=A0draft I see all kinds of OAM</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; I want to point that the draft introduce=
s Associated Channel for an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used=
 for signalling or OAM. OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Manag=
ement and Performance Monitoring. Among
 functions required to perform comprehensive Fault Management are:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Continuity but may include =
Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network;<u></u><u></u=
></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
defect localization;<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
Alarm Indication Signal;<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
Remote Defect Indication.<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and=
 restoration, Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Performance Measurement usually supports the followi=
ng:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement;<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D=
"MsoNormal">
one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement;<u></u><u></u></li><li class=
=3D"MsoNormal">
Synthetic Loss Measurement.<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM t=
oolset, usually combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to=
 create common set of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM an=
d PM operations. I see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passiv=
e OAM methods. I believe that the
 draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually used to perform mo=
nitor network for defects and performance degradation. On-demand OAM tools =
may be used to localize the defects.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">&gt; While=C2=A0 I agree with you reg=
arding =C2=A0Middle box and proactive OAM .The same can be achieve with the
 protocol extensions </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thus I don&#39;t agree that the requirement you refe=
r to is applicable to use of active OAM.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">David&gt; I think if t=
he WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include =C2=A0extension (Like GUE =
and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions for such
 protocol and not innovate =C2=A0extra header =C2=A0that use for protocols =
without extensions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; I question your assumption that use of v=
ariable length header mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. An=
d since some networks choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associ=
ated Channel header with multiplexed Overlay
 OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as common solution for either ty=
pe of overlay encapsulation.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:davidm@mellanox.com" target=3D"_blank">davidm@mellanox.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">Hi ,<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">I am =
not supporting the adoption
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">I thi=
nk while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protocol
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">This =
OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options=C2=A0 the protocol=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 is supporting!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">This =
header also violate the number 1 requirements from the extensions/options=
=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">That =
node/middlbox=C2=A0 don not=C2=A0 need to be part of the extensions/ option=
 can jump directly=C2=A0 to the overlay by reading the base header
 length only </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">Thx</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">David
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> nvo3 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">nvo3-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fioccola Giuseppe<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@=
nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&gt;; NVO3 &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">nvo3@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-=
ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">Hi Al=
l,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">I hav=
e read the draft and support its adoption.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">Regar=
ds,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">Giuse=
ppe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif">Da:</span></b><span lang=3D"IT" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif"> nvo3 [=
<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:nvo3-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>Per conto di </b>Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)<br>
<b>Inviato:</b> venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35<br>
<b>A:</b> NVO3; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">
draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooa=
mdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">This=
 email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>=
header-03 in the NVO3 working group.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Plea=
se review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Plea=
se also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an NVO3 worki=
ng group document.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Simu=
ltaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the draft.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Auth=
ors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft?<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">If s=
o, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs =
3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">If y=
ou are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond to</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">this=
 email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">IPR.=
 The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">docu=
ment will not advance to the next stage until a response</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">has =
been received from each author and each contributor.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">This=
 poll closes on Friday 14<sup>th</sup> April 2017.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Rega=
rds</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Matt=
hew and Sam</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<table class=3D"m_6455808248742731080MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpaddi=
ng=3D"0" width=3D"600" style=3D"width:6.25in">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"585" style=3D"width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<span class=3D"m_6455808248742731080m6039255677997552735m-37202143419467442=
15msonormal0"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot=
;,sans-serif;color:black">Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizza=
ti esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi
 altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigoro=
samente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete=
 cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di pro=
vvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.
</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"m_6455808248742731080m603925=
5677997552735m-3720214341946744215msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>This e-mail and any attachments=C2=A0is=C2=A0confidential and may contain =
privileged
 information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pr=
inting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended =
recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the se=
nder by return e-mail, Thanks.</span></i></span><span class=3D"m_6455808248=
742731080m6039255677997552735m-3720214341946744215msonormal0"><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif=
;color:black">
</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"26" height=3D"40" id=3D"m_6455808=
248742731080m_6039255677997552735m_-3720214341946744215_x005f_x0000_i1025" =
src=3D"cid:image001.gif@01D2AEBC.1BCC3C60" alt=3D"rispetta l&#39;ambiente">=
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</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From nobody Sun Apr  9 19:00:04 2017
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>, "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" <draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
Thread-Index: AQHSrqf5WceqzCP3V0C9KzvolVDqmqG6qLQAgAN5UAA=
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 01:59:50 +0000
Message-ID: <C1738E77-9771-4DDD-B838-378E56EDD8B5@cisco.com>
References: <D474E04D-EFD4-4D27-ACB7-9EB37BE812E4@nokia.com> <16320f45864d445f9a1bc3463d0c6352@TELMBXB02RM001.telecomitalia.local> <HE1PR0501MB213886487B9564BBC6D85D62B6080@HE1PR0501MB2138.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CA+RyBmUc4un0v5tWDJpq25WnH=QQWmzc0aF+jrHzHOUyydkXwA@mail.gmail.com> <HE1PR0501MB2138D6844278F1C18F6B1686B60A0@HE1PR0501MB2138.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CA+RyBmUWgVBXMxt=P58LrYLvge0ZmVx-cx0m=hvtGfwMBhjp1A@mail.gmail.com> <HE1PR0501MB2138A335D37EB072AAC89240B60D0@HE1PR0501MB2138.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CA+RyBmWLhED3D3Eu=YByDyA7wxpQz37_uS6fbO+8ZjC0yBTNcA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
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From nobody Sun Apr  9 19:08:22 2017
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 19:07:50 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmX7uQEVRCSe5sd_-=M8Ktg9nN1N6dv6Ckq4q1BAG-sB3Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>,  "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>,  "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" <draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org>,  Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>, sfc@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
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Hi Carlos,
if we had the OAM requirements that WGs, i.e. NVO3, SFC, and BIER, agreed
on, then, I believe, we only had to check if the proposed solution
addresses one of the requirements. I strongly believe that having OAM
requirements as working document, not necessarily to be published, is very
helpful.
But I'm surprised that you suggest that defect indication, in peer and
multi-layer OAM interworking in not required. You're co-author of OAM
requirements draft in SPRING WG that has the following requirement:

   REQ#11:  When SR OAM is initialized from centralized controller, it
            MUST have the ability to alert any edge node in SR domain
            about the corresponding path or service failure.  The node
            on receiving the alert MAY take a local protection action or
            pop an informational message.

Isn't that the functionality that is exactly supported by RDI and AIS?
Then in BIER WG adopted OAM Requirements, that you are co-author ed, I find
this:

   10.  BIER OAM MUST support Reverse Defect Indication (RDI)
        notification of the source of continuity checking BFR by Bit-
        Forwarding Egress Routers (BFERs), e.g. by using Diag in p2mp
        BFD with active tail support.

and this

   13.  BIER OAM MUST support defect notification mechanism, like Alarm
        Indication Signal.  Any BFR in the given BIER domain MAY
        originate a defect notification addressed to any subset of BFRs
        within the domain.

You don't agree with these requirements?

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> David responded to this, though I=E2=80=99d like to add a couple thoughts=
, inline.
>
> > On Apr 5, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> > thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes
> in-line and tagged GIM>>.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Greg  ,
> >
> > PSB
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM
> > To: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
> > Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>; Bocci,
> Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>;
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > thank you for sharing your opinion.
> >
> > Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use
> extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM?
> >
> > David> yes
> >
> >  Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you think =
a
> middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?
> >
> > I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if it
> is not addressed to it at all.
> >
> > David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ?  so change the
> draft to include just that . On the current  draft I see all kinds of OAM
> >
> > GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Channel for
> an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or OAM.
>
> Whoa=E2=80=A6 what problem are we solving? Inline signaling of OAM, on a =
covert
> channel? As if we do not have enough ways already to address the
> requirements?
>
> > OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Performanc=
e
> Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault
> Management are:
> >       =E2=80=A2 failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Continu=
ity but
> may include Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network=
;
> >       =E2=80=A2 defect localization;
> >       =E2=80=A2 Alarm Indication Signal;
> >       =E2=80=A2 Remote Defect Indication.
>
> I thought one strong point made quite a few times by operators is to move
> into less-ATM-like OAMs and more into traceroute-like tools. Less AIS /
> RDIs and more treetrace and udp singers.
>
> > Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration,
> Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.
> > Performance Measurement usually supports the following:
> >       =E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement;
> >       =E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement;
> >       =E2=80=A2 Synthetic Loss Measurement.
> > Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually
> combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.
> > The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common set
> of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. =
I
> see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I
> believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually
> used to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation.
> On-demand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects.
> >
>
> The temperature of the ocean does not seem to change...
>
> >
> > > While  I agree with you regarding  Middle box and proactive OAM .The
> same can be achieve with the protocol extensions
> >
> > Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable to
> use of active OAM.
> >
> > David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include
> extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions fo=
r
> such protocol and not innovate  extra header  that use for protocols
> without extensions.
> >
> > GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable length header
> mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some network=
s
> choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel header
> with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as
> common solution for either type of overlay encapsulation.
> >
> >
>
> I still do not see how an overlay layer benefits from this unnecessary
> overhead.
>
> Support--
>
> Carlos.
>
> >
> > David
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi ,
> >
> > I am not supporting the adoption
> >
> > I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protocol
> >
> >
> >
> > This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options  the protocol   i=
s
> supporting!
> >
> >
> >
> > This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the
> extensions/options
> >
> > That node/middlbox  don not  need to be part of the extensions/ option
> can jump directly  to the overlay by reading the base header length only
> >
> >
> >
> > Thx
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giusepp=
e
> > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM
> > To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <
> nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> > Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have read the draft and support its adoption.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Giuseppe
> >
> >
> >
> > Da: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew
> (Nokia - GB)
> > Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35
> > A: NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> > Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
> >
> >
> >
> > This email begins a two week poll for adoption of
> draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 in the NVO3 working group.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list.
> >
> > Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an
> NVO3 working group document.
> >
> >
> >
> > Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the
> draft.
> >
> >
> >
> > Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to this
> draft?
> >
> >
> >
> > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond t=
o
> >
> > this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> >
> > IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The
> >
> > document will not advance to the next stage until a response
> >
> > has been received from each author and each contributor.
> >
> >
> >
> > This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Matthew and Sam
> >
> > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle
> persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante
> dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualo=
ra
> abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d=
i
> darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua
> distruzione, Grazie.
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain
> privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination,
> copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments an=
d
> advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
> >
> > <image001.gif>Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=
=A8
> necessario.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nvo3 mailing list
> > nvo3@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
>
>

--001a1134f93c3b18da054cc67189
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Carlos,<div>if we had the OAM requirements that WGs, i.=
e. NVO3, SFC, and BIER, agreed on, then, I believe, we only had to check if=
 the proposed solution addresses one of the requirements. I strongly believ=
e that having OAM requirements as working document, not necessarily to be p=
ublished, is very helpful.</div><div>But I&#39;m surprised that you suggest=
 that defect indication, in peer and multi-layer OAM interworking in not re=
quired. You&#39;re co-author of OAM requirements draft in SPRING WG that ha=
s the following requirement:</div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
   REQ#11:  When SR OAM is initialized from centralized controller, it
            MUST have the ability to alert any edge node in SR domain
            about the corresponding path or service failure.  The node
            on receiving the alert MAY take a local protection action or
            pop an informational message.
</pre></div><div>Isn&#39;t that the functionality that is exactly supported=
 by RDI and AIS?</div><div>Then in BIER WG adopted OAM Requirements, that y=
ou are co-author ed, I find this:</div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" st=
yle=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;pt mono&quot;,=
monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin=
-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;color:rgb(0,0,0);word-break:break-all;word-wra=
p:break-word;border:0px;border-radius:4px">   10.  BIER OAM MUST support Re=
verse Defect Indication (RDI)
        notification of the source of continuity checking BFR by Bit-
        Forwarding Egress Routers (BFERs), e.g. by using Diag in p2mp
        BFD with active tail support.
</pre></div><div>and this</div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"b=
ox-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;pt mono&quot;,monaco,m=
onospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;line-height:1.12;color:rgb(0,0,0);word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-=
word;border:0px;border-radius:4px">   13.  BIER OAM MUST support defect not=
ification mechanism, like Alarm
        Indication Signal.  Any BFR in the given BIER domain MAY
        originate a defect notification addressed to any subset of BFRs
        within the domain.
</pre></div><div>You don&#39;t agree with these requirements?</div><div><br=
></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Carlos Pignataro (c=
pignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">David responded to this, though I=E2=80=99d like to add a cou=
ple thoughts, inline.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; On Apr 5, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimir=
sky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi David,<br>
&gt; thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes i=
n-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Greg<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dav=
idm@mellanox.com">davidm@mellanox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Greg=C2=A0 ,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PSB<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gre=
gimirsky@gmail.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM<br>
&gt; To: David Mozes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davidm@mellanox.com">davidm@mell=
anox.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@telecomi=
talia.it">giuseppe.fioccola@<wbr>telecomitalia.it</a>&gt;; Bocci, Matthew (=
Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@nokia.com">matthew.bocci@no=
kia.com</a>&gt;; NVO3 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a=
>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org">draft-ooa=
mdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-r=
tgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi David,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; thank you for sharing your opinion.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use extensions/=
options for end-to-end active OAM?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; David&gt; yes<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you =
think a middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if i=
t is not addressed to it at all.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; David&gt; Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ?=C2=A0 so c=
hange the draft to include just that . On the current=C2=A0 draft I see all=
 kinds of OAM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; GIM&gt;&gt; I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Chann=
el for an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or=
 OAM.<br>
<br>
</span>Whoa=E2=80=A6 what problem are we solving? Inline signaling of OAM, =
on a covert channel? As if we do not have enough ways already to address th=
e requirements?<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Performan=
ce Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault Mana=
gement are:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 failure detection, usually detecti=
on of Loss of Continuity but may include Mis-connection defect as well for =
connection-oriented network;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 defect localization;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Alarm Indication Signal;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Remote Defect Indication.<br>
<br>
</span>I thought one strong point made quite a few times by operators is to=
 move into less-ATM-like OAMs and more into traceroute-like tools. Less AIS=
 / RDIs and more treetrace and udp singers.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration, Prot=
ection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.<br>
&gt; Performance Measurement usually supports the following:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Loss me=
asurement;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Delay m=
easurement;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Synthetic Loss Measurement.<br>
&gt; Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually co=
mbines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.<br>
&gt; The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common set=
 of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. I=
 see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I b=
elieve that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually use=
d to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation. On-de=
mand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</span>The temperature of the ocean does not seem to change...<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; While=C2=A0 I agree with you regarding=C2=A0 Middle box and proac=
tive OAM .The same can be achieve with the protocol extensions<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thus I don&#39;t agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable=
 to use of active OAM.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; David&gt; I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include=
=C2=A0 extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensio=
ns for such protocol and not innovate=C2=A0 extra header=C2=A0 that use for=
 protocols without extensions.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; GIM&gt;&gt; I question your assumption that use of variable length hea=
der mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some netwo=
rks choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel heade=
r with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as com=
mon solution for either type of overlay encapsulation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</span>I still do not see how an overlay layer benefits from this unnecessa=
ry overhead.<br>
<br>
Support--<br>
<br>
Carlos.<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; David<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Greg<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dav=
idm@mellanox.com">davidm@mellanox.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi ,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I am not supporting the adoption<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protoco=
l<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options=C2=A0 the protoc=
ol=C2=A0 =C2=A0is supporting!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the extensions=
/options<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; That node/middlbox=C2=A0 don not=C2=A0 need to be part of the extensio=
ns/ option can jump directly=C2=A0 to the overlay by reading the base heade=
r length only<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thx<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; David<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: nvo3 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org">nvo3-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giuseppe<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM<br>
&gt; To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matthew.bocci@no=
kia.com">matthew.bocci@nokia.com</a>&gt;; NVO3 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@i=
etf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-h=
eader@ietf.org">draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-oo=
amdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi All,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have read the draft and support its adoption.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Giuseppe<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Da: nvo3 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org">nvo3-bounces=
@ietf.org</a>] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)<br>
&gt; Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35<br>
&gt; A: NVO3; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org">dr=
aft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamd=
t-rtgwg-ooam-<wbr>header-03<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-o=
oam-<wbr>header-03 in the NVO3 working group.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an N=
VO3 working group document.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the d=
raft.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to thi=
s draft?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (=
see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond =
to<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; document will not advance to the next stage until a response<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; has been received from each author and each contributor.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Matthew and Sam<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente all=
e persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante=
 dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualor=
a abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d=
i darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distru=
zione, Grazie.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privil=
eged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying=
, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the inten=
ded recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise th=
e sender by return e-mail, Thanks.<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div>&gt; &lt;image001.gif&gt;Rispetta l&#39;ambiente. Non stampare =
questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; nvo3 mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/nvo3</a><b=
r>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:29:24 -0700
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Hi Ran, Authors,
thank you for the very good and timely work. Please kindly consider my
notes to the draft:

   - section 3.1
      - for consistency of format definition add Type with reference to the
      appropriate sub-section in IANA Considerations;
      - add definition of the value in Length field, e.g. "equals number of
      octets of the Value field";
      - you may describe the Reserved field and note that is MUST be set to
      0 on transmit and ignored on receipt;
      - I think that meaning and use of subdomain-id and MT-ID need more
      discussion. E.g., how these id's assigned, managed? What they signify=
?
      - how the value of BSL field defined? Is it the same as Len field in
      the BIER Header (Section 3 in
draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation)? You may
      add the reference to encaps draft.
      - I think that Set Identifier (SI) should be included in the BIER
      TLV. According to Section 3 of the BIER Architecture document,
SI value may
      be in the [0, 255] range. Then one octet seems sufficient for SI fiel=
d.
      - I'd suggest to keep format to four octet alignment and add reserved
      field after the BFR-id field.
   - Section 3.1.1
      - you can add reference to the sub-section in IANA Considerations for
      Type field;
      - add definition of the value of Length field;
      - is 255 range sufficient for Label Range advertisement?Is it because
      SI is limited to 255? Would be helpful to clarify;
      - would BS Length in the sub-TLV be the same as BSL field in the BIER
      TLV?

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:44 PM, <chen.ran@zte.com.cn> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> We would like to request comments on the draft
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext
>
>
> We would really appreciate any comments and questions about the draft.
>
>
> Best Regards.
>
> Ran
>
>
> =E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A* =EF=BC=9Cinternet-drafts@ietf.org=
=EF=BC=9E;
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A* =EF=BC=9Ci-d-announce@ietf.org=EF=
=BC=9E;
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A* =EF=BC=9Cbier@ietf.org=EF=BC=9E;
> *=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A*2017=E5=B9=B401=E6=9C=8819=E6=97=A5 00:26
> *=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A**[Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls=
-bier-ext-00.txt*
>
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
> Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit
> Replication of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : BGP Link-State extensions for BIER
>         Authors         : Ran Chen
>                           Zheng Zhang
>                           Vengada Prasad Govindan
>                           IJsbrand Wijnands
>     Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext-00.txt
>     Pages           : 8
>     Date            : 2017-01-10
>
> Abstract:
>    Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is an architecture that
>    provides optimal multicast forwarding through a "BIER domain" without
>    requiring intermediate routers to maintain any multicast related per-
>    flow state.  BIER also does not require any explicit tree-building
>    protocol for its operation.  A multicast data packet enters a BIER
>    domain at a "Bit-Forwarding Ingress Router" (BFIR), and leaves the
>    BIER domain at one or more "Bit-Forwarding Egress Routers" (BFERs).
>    The BFIR router adds a BIER header to the packet.  The BIER header
>    contains a bitstring in which each bit represents exactly one BFER to
>    forward the packet to.  The set of BFERs to which the multicast
>    packet needs to be forwarded is expressed by setting the bits that
>    correspond to those routers in the BIER header.
>
>    This document specifies extensions to the BGP Link-state address-
>    family in order to advertising BIER information.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext/
>
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext-00
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the
> time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ran, Authors,<div>thank you for the very good and timel=
y work. Please kindly consider my notes to the draft:</div><div><ul><li>sec=
tion 3.1</li><ul><li>for consistency of format definition add Type with ref=
erence to the appropriate sub-section in IANA Considerations;</li><li>add d=
efinition of the value in Length field, e.g. &quot;equals number of octets =
of the Value field&quot;;</li><li>you may describe the Reserved field and n=
ote that is MUST be set to 0 on transmit and ignored on receipt;</li><li>I =
think that meaning and use of subdomain-id and MT-ID need more discussion. =
E.g., how these id&#39;s assigned, managed? What they signify?</li><li>how =
the value of BSL field defined? Is it the same as Len field in the BIER Hea=
der (Section 3 in draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation)? You may add the refe=
rence to encaps draft.</li><li>I think that Set Identifier (SI) should be i=
ncluded in the BIER TLV. According to Section 3 of the BIER Architecture do=
cument, SI value may be in the [0, 255] range. Then one octet seems suffici=
ent for SI field.</li><li>I&#39;d suggest to keep format to four octet alig=
nment and add reserved field after the BFR-id field.</li></ul><li>Section 3=
.1.1</li><ul><li>you can add reference to the sub-section in IANA Considera=
tions for Type field;</li><li>add definition of the value of Length field;<=
/li><li>is 255 range sufficient for Label Range advertisement?Is it because=
 SI is limited to 255? Would be helpful to clarify;</li><li>would BS Length=
 in the sub-TLV be the same as BSL field in the BIER TLV?</li></ul></ul><di=
v>Regards,</div></div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:44 PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chen.ran@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">chen.ran@zte=
.com.cn</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=
=3D"m_2288819551571209275zcontentRow"> <p><span style=3D"line-height:21px">=
Hello all,</span><br></p><p style=3D"line-height:21px;white-space:normal">W=
e would like to request comments on the draft</p><p style=3D"line-height:21=
px;white-space:normal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext" style=3D"font-size:12.6666669845581px;line-he=
ight:19px" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/dra=
ft-ietf-bier-bgp-<wbr>ls-bier-ext</a>=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"line-height:21px=
;white-space:normal"><br></p><p style=3D"line-height:21px;white-space:norma=
l">We would really appreciate any comments and questions about the draft.</=
p><p style=3D"line-height:21px;white-space:normal"><br></p><p style=3D"line=
-height:21px;white-space:normal">Best Regards.</p><p style=3D"line-height:2=
1px;white-space:normal">Ran</p><p style=3D"line-height:21px;white-space:nor=
mal"><br></p><div><div class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zhistoryRow" style=3D"=
display:block"><div><div><div class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zhistoryDes" st=
yle=3D"width:100%;height:28px;line-height:28px;background-color:#e0e5e9;col=
or:#1388ff;text-align:center">=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6</div><di=
v id=3D"m_2288819551571209275zwriteHistoryContainer"><div class=3D"m_228881=
9551571209275control-group m_2288819551571209275zhistoryPanel"><div class=
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lor:#f5f6f8"><div><strong>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</strong><spa=
n class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zreadUserName"> =EF=BC=9C<a href=3D"mailto:=
internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>=EF=
=BC=9E;</span></div><div><strong>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</stro=
ng><span class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zreadUserName" style=3D"display:inli=
ne-block"> =EF=BC=9C<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>=EF=BC=9E;</span></div><div><strong>=E6=8A=84=
=E9=80=81=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</strong><span class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zre=
adUserName" style=3D"display:inline-block"> =EF=BC=9C<a href=3D"mailto:bier=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>=EF=BC=9E;</span></div><div><=
strong>=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A</strong><span>2017=E5=B9=B401=E6=9C=88=
19=E6=97=A5 00:26</span></div><div><strong>=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A</s=
trong><span class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zreadTitle"><strong>[Bier] I-D Ac=
tion: draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-<wbr>ext-00.txt</strong></span></div></di=
v><p class=3D"m_2288819551571209275zhistoryContent"><br></p><div><br>A=C2=
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ions=C2=A0to=C2=A0the=C2=A0BGP=C2=A0Link-<wbr>state=C2=A0address-<br>=C2=A0=
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=C2=A0<wbr>page=C2=A0for=C2=A0this=C2=A0draft=C2=A0is:<br><a href=3D"https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext/" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-<wbr>bier-=
ext/</a><br><br>There&#39;s=C2=A0also=C2=A0a=C2=A0htmlized=C2=A0<wbr>versio=
n=C2=A0available=C2=A0at:<br><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-ext-00" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
<wbr>draft-ietf-bier-bgp-ls-bier-<wbr>ext-00</a><br><br><br>Please=C2=A0not=
e=C2=A0that=C2=A0it=C2=A0may=C2=A0take=C2=A0<wbr>a=C2=A0couple=C2=A0of=C2=
=A0minutes=C2=A0from=C2=A0the=C2=A0<wbr>time=C2=A0of=C2=A0submission<br>unt=
il=C2=A0the=C2=A0htmlized=C2=A0version=C2=A0<wbr>and=C2=A0diff=C2=A0are=C2=
=A0available=C2=A0at=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">tool<wbr>s.ietf.org</a>.<br><br>Internet-Drafts=C2=A0are=C2=A0also=C2=A0=
<wbr>available=C2=A0by=C2=A0anonymous=C2=A0FTP=C2=A0at:<br><a href=3D"ftp:/=
/ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/intern=
et-<wbr>drafts/</a><br><br>______________________________<wbr>_____________=
____<br>BIER=C2=A0mailing=C2=A0list<br><a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/bier" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinf=
o/bier</a><br></div><p><br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p><br><=
/p> </div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
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arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/bier</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113d09de955d1f054ce9f23e--


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From: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
CC: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>, "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>, NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>, "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" <draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 06:45:10 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/fmbIBcG3sDUIspNgrypHMthfwyI>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
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From nobody Fri Apr 21 11:23:58 2017
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Subject: [Bier] IPR Disclosure Cisco's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation
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Dear IJsbrand Wijnands, Eric C. Rosen, Sam Aldrin, Israel Meilik, Andrew Dolganow, Jeff Tantsura:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled
"Encapsulation for Bit Index Explicit Replication in MPLS and non-MPLS
Networks" (draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation) was submitted to the IETF
Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property
Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2985/). The title of the
IPR disclosure is "Cisco's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


From nobody Fri Apr 21 11:27:53 2017
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Dear IJsbrand Wijnands, Eric C. Rosen, Sam Aldrin, Tony Przygienda, Andrew Dolganow:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Multicast
using Bit Index Explicit Replication" (draft-ietf-bier-architecture) was
submitted to the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2986/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Cisco's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-bier-architecture"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


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Dear IJsbrand Wijnands, Eric C. Rosen, Sam Aldrin, Tony Przygienda, Andrew Dolganow:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Multicast
using Bit Index Explicit Replication" (draft-ietf-bier-architecture) was
submitted to the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2987/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Cisco's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-bier-architecture"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication of the IETF.

        Title           : Multicast using Bit Index Explicit Replication
        Authors         : IJsbrand Wijnands
                          Eric C. Rosen
                          Andrew Dolganow
                          Tony Przygienda
                          Sam K Aldrin
	Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-architecture-06.txt
	Pages           : 36
	Date            : 2017-04-24

Abstract:
   This document specifies a new architecture for the forwarding of
   multicast data packets.  It provides optimal forwarding of multicast
   packets through a "multicast domain".  However, it does not require a
   protocol for explicitly building multicast distribution trees, nor
   does it require intermediate nodes to maintain any per-flow state.
   This architecture is known as "Bit Index Explicit Replication"
   (BIER).  When a multicast data packet enters the domain, the ingress
   router determines the set of egress routers to which the packet needs
   to be sent.  The ingress router then encapsulates the packet in a
   BIER header.  The BIER header contains a bitstring in which each bit
   represents exactly one egress router in the domain; to forward the
   packet to a given set of egress routers, the bits corresponding to
   those routers are set in the BIER header.  Elimination of the per-
   flow state and the explicit tree-building protocols results in a
   considerable simplification.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-architecture/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-architecture-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-architecture-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

