From nobody Mon Feb 4 07:47:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB19130E8E for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:47:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c-ZnkATHagAM for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw1-xc2b.google.com (mail-yw1-xc2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8860130EF1 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yw1-xc2b.google.com with SMTP id x65so251476ywg.3 for ; Mon, 04 Feb 2019 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=Px5rky+jkVC7AGIiw3I9dw0TuqNs6BV7SlDS1Si9zYk=; b=OeYWwR9TaMWnOjVciu2bqxR6akpHAhkZUtHv0CEQjATgOR1cNhH3Sba21wnzeNt1a/ LpD9IVRSEy63PuNr/FpySjjA5xIMtOK6I4HqdGq1s8qNKfjQB2c+W3zlLgfnRQbbdHbr jmeR1uCJllHI3iHT0jyw6zoTgJecdHnDV/LeXwvwYbe1UWAaDWXJtv1ZnUVWWcnBb9C/ RLNBdWFxBbz69vyWQL7y5UhGAP//yqun2wQgQbLMrq+efikBdy9LFNWThM8DreDO17OG BdyBRnD5N65WKXNJvLyp4p3h4INDwXz6H8ZyvoDd2ce0pKF76gBwsgGxLTv9Q6Mxub+M +KeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Px5rky+jkVC7AGIiw3I9dw0TuqNs6BV7SlDS1Si9zYk=; b=C6DepJ13zXpXLTgSMsBcQjgpeLqrMRl8dDqDVXDo+QMBUqEiVIR6225MS7rajtdtvL tfop0wC3bBHleFan6dlOq9BojiKVNXG2LuyBwWHVbBtXIIgCrZ+g3V2Rih+1aXC+5w1g oIYlEyzjEWJmye0FaQMj3sZWsDiKRNwUInPOQBEzWAPBe+PhGjYUs5JLj6Wua9sjRtbO 20w0N1LYxL/Jfeh9eAC5rEpYwJSUxPTyfeKVtooAeQfn9NhQYq7mTY2gzmWAtyPJxOTR f5AcgY4pIdNrazOuAt4PNQLJ4Wm2sdLhvvkkFGk+CISMsZHx9U2w3fqOx6Iq9nqksg1H CgkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuaXOXggpbAEB1NaFDXB2hUJ2DQV4iK2ryW+r621pR19Jwj6+BVg zXREN9C/CU4hFq+1dlzkcXuPHrkwUmN3bgYUKvcZwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYaR1ZNVn/2cKxRES9ADHBarEVLGfZmSYSpII+u08I/Cnadxy3PWYPX5NG+ywRAoXiEPHDGJDuimWfhWXGrtWY= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:c242:: with SMTP id e63mr44487ywd.10.1549295238409; Mon, 04 Feb 2019 07:47:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:47:07 -0600 Message-ID: To: bier@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000056709e0581136852" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 15:47:29 -0000 --00000000000056709e0581136852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. Behcet *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org ] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd *Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2019 1:10 PM *To:* BIER WG *Subject:* [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of= : https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-resp= onse/ ..as a BIER WG document. This starts a two week counter. Thanks, Chairs --00000000000056709e0581136852 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<= /div>

Support.

Behcet

From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:10 PM
To: BIER WG <b= ier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-= http-response

=C2=A0

Please read and reply to this thread with your vote = for/against adoption of:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

..as a BIER WG document.

=C2=A0

This starts a two week counter.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Chairs

--00000000000056709e0581136852-- From nobody Wed Feb 6 09:54:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3963A130E8D for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 09:54:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it.uc3m.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YwZL2r8mPLXT for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 09:54:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A6721277BB for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 09:54:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id x10so8576496wrs.8 for ; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 09:54:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it.uc3m.es; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=AEO8+8HCQphFujCViCMqXCbWpVliKjobWWwc+KJ13ao=; b=d3MewpsWJOvcUeJd+MaHrtGJWb7dNbKvhiNf1tr6VwNwmAeDWpMktVtcRr39WNuegg aaoca9N/+LObNIU3Z7PbN4mADuUyZwgbkWMmBfwFiwvBEA2KA+T52UTjBaSXyN7S44Es f9gvmI+PUAbmsnyRVgji7JnQhXRI1j9h3cGVXWZzxnvbkA+8uHdC1IuDJGkC3Oe7Mv1w h1ajVL3X/oRNJ695YzZpb00Lz0sUgbFkMfpU/lcrKu1aFr0USP/mbXZz0oHjZstr3OSR majek/Gw2cokeW2ebDzTv4Xbvzuo5w1iEsUshOUWYQ9yqqPAsbBycOxTE/sy9n4lMvRu YvHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=AEO8+8HCQphFujCViCMqXCbWpVliKjobWWwc+KJ13ao=; b=BGiKuFCHtqFD9fECK5ED/8sxUrr+NKEWd1B7zSXmaPT05T4wS4yBNmH27E7BqboSEn G+vA/enpCRNDiwAoAis0zjtsQpatMT3aeqTaM7CXc+HXUfcVoWy7jeWqfRbeCQMLPRoQ NP4tBAVB6B8oCf/liX57r0zY/n3/Ej3fTsN21seKbuSLfTCNek2pnv9nawD7MjKw1ED6 RyLRlePT4muKbLQeULFuZK/Hd4r6qZLLR00YqdrRgUc0jONbEabX2c8510PTlSHNxcf0 Z0kIiJgoOF3nQgtdIjxZvd16JcSHpdxJ33q5XaAV7j4Z8W41AGltXvtgiHwD8+dYVfBs QeaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYq3Md2ycgynFk3KSlnMwpXNkxUXKGkjuE2A3pbuppRmrjSZtu6 pBj5NvhK96q4fR8dxhBbpy+hfsyRSKDB0lO28F5OmlHc X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaWCV/0pSulS7dc2wW4l6dL5PyU0G/wiZ4DIeZ7RFsGOKX5yqhLf3+LeQsjOKvNiunN6Zq+vSDiU/uD9qg0Yfo= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e7c9:: with SMTP id e9mr3143954wrn.267.1549475690477; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 09:54:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 18:54:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: bier@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001ea6a205813d6c00" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 17:54:56 -0000 --0000000000001ea6a205813d6c00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. Carlos > *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2019 1:10 PM > *To:* BIER WG > *Subject:* [Bier] Call for adoption: > draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response > > > > Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption > of: > > > > > https://datatracker..ietf.org/doc/draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-r= esponse/ > > > > > ..as a BIER WG document. > > > > This starts a two week counter. > > > > Thanks, > > Chairs > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --0000000000001ea6a205813d6c00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support.

Carlos

<= div dir=3D"ltr">


From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:10 PM
To: BIER WG <b= ier@ietf.org>
Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-= http-response

=C2=A0

Please read and reply to this thread with your vote = for/against adoption of:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

..as a BIER WG document.

=C2=A0

This starts a two week counter.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Chairs

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--0000000000001ea6a205813d6c00-- From nobody Wed Feb 6 18:43:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA883130FFE for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 18:43:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PwK0knJ4BDhj for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 18:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62C61131006 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 18:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA806548342 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 03:43:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 9807C440219; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 03:43:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 03:43:28 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190207024328.46rtr7uekbszuc3t@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 02:43:42 -0000 As co-author: support! On Mon, Feb 04, 2019 at 09:47:07AM -0600, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > Support. > > Behcet > > *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2019 1:10 PM > *To:* BIER WG > *Subject:* [Bier] Call for adoption: > draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response > > > > Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response/ > > > > > ...as a BIER WG document. > > > > This starts a two week counter. > > > > Thanks, > > Chairs > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Feb 7 10:04:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01DF129C6A; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:04:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iJ8zcd-5-RYa; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com (mail-ed1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5BAD124C04; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id h50so638149ede.5; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 10:04:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=H38RKqSHzr7s498fNgf17405H9aeYJGZJuSJ1JoHlxE=; b=KwlH7cqwAd1m743uQ3lzxd4uwy+ohaKXEXs4Nw3w1tMG5xMvxj6ibmOxY93fpPmK9h mpSV7Oab785yMkFjdMdpvluOpEYdNB3EkWuFlSpr8DmV939oUDDn/+MecTfYWHjvygzQ lMO9WSxg5MpPAvH7qTEtqQyzDtdGRCPBqu4FHA3ghb2htVqFEA3pykEjLIbQ+pUPcvrk M62IWAd8U7+YKYOn+GcErKDDY90Ic89dqjnWIPKWNctAzh6Dtr49Fj+N94J2I3IOKAxV 01mU5+Q42aNHT8wdCe+bYNzFuWWYZZdO9YxP075S/ZKINfc9WuwsSArC2lvmW8DSoAO5 s8sQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=H38RKqSHzr7s498fNgf17405H9aeYJGZJuSJ1JoHlxE=; b=Y6vu4W8vX2HMYYMbZT/CTIJFHv2UngaLs7DvKOhjZ6Zxu00ml3xoQzHt8la9DQiNa+ O2sbZYG45jEieKGeBsnJCnn8wQvg25OyGNzKhDhLJnQudLPU2M1M3tJYPmI4K8McsG1K joXat6DFPE8eo/CTgAVzfgHtsEeXMlux1w1QmjWURFt4TkXH3Bxk3S5idbCoIG0m1wNv S8r3LDBSf48RQpo4t/l9CLjU8kuNPwlCz/rwZ4JEbrjUrjiFGYk8/gNWdYWX+wkQuylS cw2vJzITB/KGYC86+iq30UTr9w0G7vxu7Q6ls2vsQ5GG8sgqlRQ8MDCgN6V6T0sVx0v0 rV/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuag5zrMo4ELMsjsiPQ/blCVwPyNNHgLF61P198rJ2wBWRjaRIDn DX9YH3g6SrdOmXpUPndYOb7+obyG9ucMnF7Od3AToGwN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbPIGW38bc7XjKBTGi4cRJHRJs9aKBgqKaE1b8pZs+iqmPn5ZxgLLhYVE/apxkoJdzN1Q9PM368tmddBrowJH8= X-Received: by 2002:a50:b85d:: with SMTP id k29mr13561464ede.86.1549562646966; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 10:04:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tony Przygienda Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 10:03:30 -0800 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org, BIER WG , pim@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000213936058151abba" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] Cross post since it may interest fabric/multicast people to join next weeks' discussion X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 18:04:13 -0000 --000000000000213936058151abba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Cross-post to other groups given today's RIFT discussion: Despite my long resistance to introduce native multicast into RIFT based on M-OSPF scar tissue ;-) it seems it falls out almost naturally along the lines of RPL after having pushed on it today with Pascal. We would end up with a single (*,*) tree in the top of fabric and the prunning happens naturally when packets go southbound. We could even mix multicast capable and non-capable nodes easily. *Well, I encourage e'one interested in multicast, especially on fabrics to join next week discussion to influence/double-check the upcoming solution.* Today's recording: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/03bxldg5xu6zkos/AABRjx-gNba0OagXOMDftAb-a?dl=0 Multicast discussion starts late, scroll forward to 00:52:09 basically thanks -- tony --000000000000213936058151abba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cross-post to other groups given today's RIFT dis= cussion:

Despite my long resistance to introdu= ce native multicast into RIFT based on M-OSPF scar tissue ;-) it=20 seems it falls out almost naturally along the lines of RPL after having pus= hed on it today with Pascal. We would end up with a single=20 (*,*) tree in the top of fabric and the prunning happens naturally when=20 packets go southbound. We could even mix multicast capable and non-capable nodes easily. Well, I encourage e'one interested in multicast, espe= cially on=20 fabrics to join next week discussion to influence/double-check the upcoming= solution.

Today's recording:
<= /div>


=
Multicast discussion starts late, scroll forward to 00:52:09 bas= ically

thanks

-= - tony

--000000000000213936058151abba-- From nobody Thu Feb 7 12:27:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A8312F1AC for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 12:27:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FsLrnrlOluf1 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 12:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx04.uni-tuebingen.de (mx04.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.5.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C66F12426A for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 12:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (hsi-kbw-078-042-228-230.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de [78.42.228.230]) by mx04.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CEF1491B1 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 21:27:07 +0100 (CET) To: bier@ietf.org References: From: Michael Menth Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=menth@uni-tuebingen.de; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFEwuvUBCAC0e0350KZ4gcyRT7ia8iJ/yaSopkvA14XFLnu9ooRFsw7FvYThSQa6mJ0a fZuAqxs4/ymD6pbLEjQWhuHcZyVOWHsuIYtHBGLOmmSCvoYURgJ1w1wJCwH2uA2I8xT/cV3e fwJym09f/Tl71gLopIIzaSZo6T9NG3jGF2D9cfzapp8IOq1iSiBq5Ry+Sq3IPHkUkpcg3Zk6 td6MtlvRQUnK9nIffxG0RKMF28PCAYFwzx4Nj7zsjfYgcTAIt/ld7Ptk1olb9B9l8xVTuojK /s8sk6yZn0LgE0wjABxUCVSB9wMSyZac4f3QHSl5//ZnstjaqDCM0lijrHHnBI8pmVyHABEB AAG0Jk1pY2hhZWwgTWVudGggPG1lbnRoQHVuaS10dWViaW5nZW4uZGU+iQE+BBMBAgAoBQJR MLr1AhsjBQkJZgGABgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDxmVdyt1FYm9hyCACz D7Q8imyW9G++j2N97jF9ybcQJ8eCUeiJ20DFy3gAGR/Ic/RB+Y1fsD/1DY2Ahe82iKphp1Fp UK8qhfz+zDVJgz0CyzESyIztOkc1RyhO5295iRG30ClGYaxHHw7/1EbQ8CKEKIAD2WEHIk6I pZkYlBey1uMQLT4LE+nWwrMdo7BDt74rmUpRyWqDHI4J96i/VWKJGbpky5laRwd5hZeVEWGA Blz3/CL7vZzOHLwZduVTs4upZyc2zJHEqQKuHb0+ixs4xaP5yWpQPvacq5+G6IOSawHyDI5T hkRp48yJV519jOWYc/daT0MLHCHK6bt3AK+CfvmBf/ACSS84ravp Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 21:30:03 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 20:27:12 -0000 support Michael Am 25.01.2019 um 19:10 schrieb Greg Shepherd: > Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response/ > > ..as a BIER WG document. > > This starts a two week counter. > > Thanks, > Chairs > (Shep) > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > -- Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth University of Tuebingen Faculty of Science Department of Computer Science Chair of Communication Networks Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505 fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220 mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de http://kn.inf.uni-tuebingen.de From nobody Fri Feb 8 03:33:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8A012867A for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 03:33:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=interdigital.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tSJ1T03EGiGe for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 03:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr740112.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.74.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D81412EB11 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 03:33:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interdigital.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=kM3pYah8Yah/qzUgiG0WYk96z+3JQiLigKP6uR63fvw=; b=QX+qk4WVEvozwaLdf/qYg9sgrpDnEkMRVKw96XMQc3JTvz1mbBnzWAb05AYJhOy5Bez5T+SLnRU59EFUbGfHUBk7aCpU1JF2vO60KIedBMM1JqRfFpvUvvn26rMRsyx8WicWjDiddi1isbI0ONY6YagA3RiVhZeAP0Aka9wS5SM= Received: from BN6PR1001MB2161.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (10.174.87.28) by BN6PR1001MB2353.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (10.174.88.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1601.21; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 11:33:17 +0000 Received: from BN6PR1001MB2161.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::adfd:43ee:6256:28a0]) by BN6PR1001MB2161.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::adfd:43ee:6256:28a0%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1601.016; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 11:33:16 +0000 From: Debashish Purkayastha To: "gjshep@gmail.com" , BIER WG Thread-Topic: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response Thread-Index: AQHUtNlLCc/w2A2JCE6OaUIrNLB626XEOFYAgBGhw3A= Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 11:33:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Debashish.Purkayastha@InterDigital.com; x-originating-ip: [223.191.26.205] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2muMkRjl4Mko for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 05:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (mx03.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.5.213]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35E8F1288BD for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 05:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [134.2.11.130] (thanatos.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.11.130]) by mx03.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B798DF55E1 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 14:11:15 +0100 (CET) To: bier@ietf.org References: <20190207024636.a54qh3jj3tdajibl@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4271282e-850c-0e10-7db7-6bd933905fc9@uni-tuebingen.de> From: Daniel Merling Message-ID: <2441bff5-5834-b726-4faa-90d8592ab448@uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 14:11:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4271282e-850c-0e10-7db7-6bd933905fc9@uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2019 13:11:22 -0000 Support. Daniel > ----- Forwarded message from Greg Shepherd ----- > > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:10:21 -0800 > From: Greg Shepherd > To: BIER WG > Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: > draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response > > Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response/ > > ...as a BIER WG document. > > This starts a two week counter. > > Thanks, > Chairs > (Shep) > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > -- Daniel Merling, M.Sc. University of Tuebingen Faculty of Science Department of Computer Science Chair of Communication Networks Room B304, Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany phone: (+49)-7071/29-70507 mailto: daniel.merling@uni-tuebingen.de http://kn.inf.uni-tuebingen.de From nobody Fri Feb 8 08:10:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23443126C15 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 08:10:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LtbP7yPBAh0F for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 08:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it1-x129.google.com (mail-it1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5554D128766 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2019 08:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it1-x129.google.com with SMTP id i145so9937068ita.4 for ; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 08:10:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=bd52UHCthOIWQiVKP9hthHyxBb3GWLbWd7gjqeZokBA=; b=aP2pbzlNe3O/0GoUn8kMfbTtps9fx8UDij7W6qD4Vu0vRNhjE+XTZxk/qAvnW/g0P8 zHHkKOU/1UV2bqc6kg+JkX6oRcZhX5CTdAZzJN0SYUCReUV3Nw0trdfFwhlKVs5Bz/sd j/wPfmFotw0heiJdK9dLCwskkbwDXF5b6p+7RDJUElS8D4BE4XCE7Y03JBV11JNEx0XG XnA1RAMevTWtnmwoSQTp0TwVQ5rGW7b28b6FL4JhvgcYwVmpLCBBL62hjVkhh0/q4HRv Pbyrc8EbupD/jqM5zifQ0Zr4j2DsBMKuCMCfgogoK5yZP8vqccC4MSdeexVQb3w49wVF gmlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=bd52UHCthOIWQiVKP9hthHyxBb3GWLbWd7gjqeZokBA=; b=i9GBx8szmzHGCCpJA2NLZgQm6z/aseshgfXCnrPN+LlIDb+CORZYHD6CiSdsgRAMG/ zGd8NPstVeGFgnBjOwcp9s8Z5eFY9Qzi0M/qzZIvqGsc4O7wLdf7zuYw9CNhsBbsKtVe ybQNFG9frM/4dSsYRpoBTLC2wDLhSLxBMAs5ARfb7jLdJn84d8ndtzp3NXA795Db5NpP EtcxGTs1ktBa+dOuqRyJae8ahxdvbWZltQcTc4fa6xfvOKi3rZJozkd1qfKg6QilGe9D cRRkkNJ5MKTA6z2Dq4jjSyMMf+xahCqCiAQTI1fD3G84UNpn4OwNWcoCR4FoBQpqkpxS Raqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuanCVKQun5x8OveikPVPw1DEncJ36DZVCEykLV+JqXspUjJBI3j dcmEvmfiGoo8lU30H51KtVg+14XhRw+C7Z1bsSmvvQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IarxOZIoqzHUoCLrZELA2ygnSEL5+paNg1BrJi0pl5NvvFCDMCtIFAilY+P/csD/WgkLR2FfmnzVHucQGSWDqM= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8719:: with SMTP id u25mr11461396iom.2.1549642235068; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 08:10:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 08:10:23 -0800 Message-ID: To: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f348e10581643288" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2019 16:10:41 -0000 --000000000000f348e10581643288 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Solid support to adopt. Authors, please resubmit w/ WG name and Chairs will approve. Thanks, Chairs (Shep) On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:10 AM Greg Shepherd wrote: > Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption > of: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-purkayastha-bier-multicast-http-response/ > > ..as a BIER WG document. > > This starts a two week counter. > > Thanks, > Chairs > (Shep) > --000000000000f348e10581643288 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Solid support to adopt. Authors, please resubmit w/ WG nam= e and Chairs will approve.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:10 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Please read= and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of:

<= /div>

<= /div>
..as a BIER WG document.

This starts a t= wo week counter.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)
--000000000000f348e10581643288-- From nobody Tue Feb 12 08:28:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC1C12E036; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 08:28:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <154998889120.8438.2635954815528355055@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 08:28:11 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 16:28:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Applicability of BIER Multicast Overlay for Adaptive Streaming Services Authors : Debashish Purkayastha Akbar Rahman Dirk Trossen Toerless Eckert Filename : draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2019-02-08 Abstract: HTTP Level multicast, using BIER, is described as a use case in BIER Use cases document. HTTP Level Multicast is used in today's video streaming and delivery services such as HLS, AR/VR etc., generally realized over IP Multicast. A realization of "HTTP Multicast" over "IP Multicast" is described. IP multicast is commonly used for IPTV services. DVB and BBF is also developing a reference architecture for IP Multicast service. A few problems with IPMC, such as waste of transmission bandwidth, increase in signaling when there are few users are described. Realization over BIER, through a BIER Multicast Overlay Layer, is described. How BIER Multicast Overlay operation improves over IP Multicast, such as reduction in signaling, dynamic creation of multicast groups to reduce signaling and bandwidth wastage is described. We conclude with few next steps. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 12 09:29:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D727128B33 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:29:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1fFwCpEfr0EN for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 682BC127287 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 10so2896035eds.7 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mfLoWFiVAT51X/O4Ip9OrP7qg1zgm/LAsV1wteIhg6k=; b=inf4yJV2TpeDSpiX8rcep8GZIx3I/cDTFYVJHaedvtA+j7Twvj+XGyxL6ZhiMVEBkf LH7nmcGsSraAvC2q6uN35D0rED3AVi5fyrAmoOPLr5iL9UAYfoIImNwL5OaW6g0BBrQY 8N8D+11Qp+qFueiRXV2w7ZSxmyKJbwI0rcpOUj5iqVTTl29/Y7qBrBXq61nsVYn0Vl5a SAwYeBeK+lmqujj+9sNFmeNBoCg47qUWeUUVmftwb2LIE5kSspjvBceI1SpqllJSJbUq iNvJrvKMmKilPeSTlxMZfG0dfzLWtcSAkB+P0KD9xxp7Ub3U0jMhFsMVKfK5mDEmVkhj BFuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mfLoWFiVAT51X/O4Ip9OrP7qg1zgm/LAsV1wteIhg6k=; b=T/ZrqeuNXo0v3dQAIspjx1tarmePKxU3xthGIJjlFWPfXPQWu5aH1IrXEpxFQH+u5a Pxc/Suikq0dFrxQcGgOnb5UslXt6FT0ZJttEZ1rrCkcRA1dM0RRq9fSmKw13NmjTjUpb EyCP5TaQIaggovd/S7E6LicZvWxkSKdrKGKn36pWidyETEsScT42U07KfNmRAoWwzZnx nUYcLzAdyG1cSBsUnUzNztZHspaKYGwZvPmaxzcrNwYz06C7KVqvTWE1CPJinlJ+w16/ p6BY6vlliELe3wXSxsX9yNOtYqDZiiPEFd0qN6H5kSvSYDoOUWHz+0TfGtu1EQZu/oCv R91Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZs02g0vgEfybf+io07nMma9VPujcoO1mC0tQlDJp21U20hd5RI Mjvw1zzrqZNpPWoQCY5q7oyIHy8Nl6oQQraf7FbzqvrP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IarrwzyLhj+Ko6te1VaSDXZQxoP0XINMsFSbPvlT0xrnjmK+/0vrzVQtJjvrrZptkXltm2+Z6FMEXXRNZTBJDk= X-Received: by 2002:a50:cb42:: with SMTP id h2mr3981466edi.132.1549992555600; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:29:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Stig Venaas Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:29:04 -0800 Message-ID: To: Senthil Dhanaraj Cc: Greg Shepherd , BIER WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call For Adoption: draft-venaas-bier-mtud X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 17:29:20 -0000 Hi Senthil, please see comments inline. On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Senthil Dhanaraj wrote: > > Few concerns on, whether the proposed solution by the draft can address different scenario's and if this is the best way to go. > Request authors to have a look. > > 1. The draft already explains that the selected MTU for a path might not be the best MTU, rather a conservative one. > Adding to that, > > As per the draft, the advertised MTU indicates the size of the largest BIER packet including the BIER header. > But the size of the BIER header itself varies based on the selected BSL. > > If there exists a node which only supports lower BSL, say BSL=64 and advertises MTU considering BSL=64, then we force all the other nodes in the same SD which may support/choose to use bigger BSL, say BSL=256 to operate with even lesser MTU. > > Makes me wonder, if we should discover MTU per SD/BSL (or) advertise link MTU irrespective of L3 overhead SR/BIER. I'm not sure if I get you. The latest version is the MTU before BIER encap (the largest possible BIER packet including the BIER header). Hence a router supporting only BSL 64 might advertise say 1480 because that is the largest BIER packet that can be sent (including the BIER header). The largest packet IP this router would send out one of those links would be 1480 - BSL64-overhead. Another router supporting say BSL 256, would learn about the 1480 MTU advertised, so the largest IP packet that router would send would then be 1480 - BSL256 overhead. > 2. How do we address below scenario, > > BFIR -- BFR1 -- Non-BIER-Node -- BFR2 -- BFER > <=== MPLS//SR tunnel ===> > > BFR1 may use a MPLS/SR tunnel to bypass the Non-BIER-Node. > Note that, > - the IGP (BIER) adjacency is between (BFR1, Non-Bier-Node) and (Non-BIER-Node, BFR2). > - there is no IGP adjacency over the MPLS/SR tunnel used to bypass non-bier-capable-node. Yes, this is probably something we should solve. I don't have an answer at this point, but I'm wondering how one might find out the MTU of this tunnel. > 3. It is not clear , how the BIER MTU is discovered across IGP area's ? My understanding is that with both OSPF and IS-IS BIER sub-TLVs can be (it doesn't seem mandatory, but the text differs in the draft) can leak between areas/levels. Whether this is done or not is regardless of this draft. But when the BIER sub-TLVs are leaked, the MTU TLV would be included. Which I think makes sense. The BFRs you receive BIER TLVs from are the routers that you may encapsulate and send BIER packets to, and for which you want to know the MTU. Thanks, Stig > Thanks, > Senthil > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:38 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: >> >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-venaas-bier-mtud/ >> >> ..as a BIER WG document. >> >> This starts a two week counter. >> >> Thanks, >> Chairs >> (Shep) >> _______________________________________________ >> BIER mailing list >> BIER@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier From nobody Tue Feb 12 09:55:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A261B129A87 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:55:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H2yb3KFG5F2h for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it1-x12d.google.com (mail-it1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE96F127287 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id c9so9825018itj.1 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:55:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=fjGRvgdTh0uEWWXhCkjbHqCyln67SDbu+KeejBb6c2Q=; b=icNMiicSutVY8gvLsBQnAcXidcrQ3lyWOYOFkcPQHpAIq5/svRUnax7GKg/cb6jyel SDGnEsYrAZxkCvXGbgY6XRFE/0okl4GP9Xm3ONbV0U+GfCsLpiyYJ8ySl6ZaMSCXWJzp Xm9ygdGo9srsngkN7kHaL6MyXlBoZdEoaHNhF+Fu79lOZhSlgcJak6T1+yTRQx1hD4UL m7hqe/+Z52OE/rmPFg9mSjP7wTUN2NNT4zSItn/7rUe0txoLlTw9NXo9H1/Zig6WRgea tLGAK/Eln+Rl9z8UKQV8Wrnlzj51waqHGX9NXWDCK2Y1+vPaXkjf9spS7en0/oN494bl tJnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fjGRvgdTh0uEWWXhCkjbHqCyln67SDbu+KeejBb6c2Q=; b=bF8gv9qTqJoYS8G0Cnz19j9a8edRqejrNmLWgidjcS6L7XERXhzOegg0NTjn69jUHA kroTKVk9pYxLcRKBwjtPqadH/JkHYtwAGY/sUgqpGXzRC1p5sPLycOpdisZpcGruGx0X bfgZjy4p/N2QQWgZuxfCe+1L/GRXtkVZcoTfihOC976d/4ZYzB3nuTatA/EwuS9O6F4d qCVhQ+U/tdoQr8pW8Q2fWBXxpZgKA6xk5fnjAUeSEj41R1tHUm+AVSGuaNBStvkHG1pV VUBUNY4QuXsKVrGx9+zRMzLRLNV9UgMUTaozA2lVx89zb1ix+YqnNmTL/eORK9I6lasM qMnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZHOlj2CqIERaIewOoKoRlQCehchm55j07bMf/7A6dULElF/045 fwpNWZwIgkkkbRWdos5Noyh2AoZPOd5NtArIA4o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbC2qeEOzg12zul06XOMiDlyt5gmT8R9SbnU4l8eTOXa1jLf2d0gjMZW1qUDxpeMV/95iBHH/usCug4rpjnZ94= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9812:: with SMTP id a18mr2346059iol.236.1549994136852; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:55:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:55:25 -0800 Message-ID: To: Stig Venaas Cc: Senthil Dhanaraj , BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ee5f770581b621ad" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call For Adoption: draft-venaas-bier-mtud X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 17:55:41 -0000 --000000000000ee5f770581b621ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Solid support and a good discussion. Authors, Please resubmit with the WG. Thanks, Chairs (Shep) On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 9:29 AM Stig Venaas wrote: > Hi Senthil, please see comments inline. > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Senthil Dhanaraj > wrote: > > > > Few concerns on, whether the proposed solution by the draft can address > different scenario's and if this is the best way to go. > > Request authors to have a look. > > > > 1. The draft already explains that the selected MTU for a path might > not be the best MTU, rather a conservative one. > > Adding to that, > > > > As per the draft, the advertised MTU indicates the size of the largest > BIER packet including the BIER header. > > But the size of the BIER header itself varies based on the selected BSL. > > > > If there exists a node which only supports lower BSL, say BSL=64 and > advertises MTU considering BSL=64, then we force all the other nodes in the > same SD which may support/choose to use bigger BSL, say BSL=256 to operate > with even lesser MTU. > > > > Makes me wonder, if we should discover MTU per SD/BSL (or) advertise > link MTU irrespective of L3 overhead SR/BIER. > > I'm not sure if I get you. The latest version is the MTU before BIER > encap (the largest possible BIER packet including the BIER header). > Hence a router supporting only BSL 64 might advertise say 1480 because > that is the largest BIER packet that can be sent (including the BIER > header). The largest packet IP this router would send out one of those > links would be 1480 - BSL64-overhead. Another router supporting say > BSL 256, would learn about the 1480 MTU advertised, so the largest IP > packet that router would send would then be 1480 - BSL256 overhead. > > > 2. How do we address below scenario, > > > > BFIR -- BFR1 -- Non-BIER-Node -- BFR2 -- BFER > > <=== MPLS//SR tunnel ===> > > > > BFR1 may use a MPLS/SR tunnel to bypass the Non-BIER-Node. > > Note that, > > - the IGP (BIER) adjacency is between (BFR1, Non-Bier-Node) and > (Non-BIER-Node, BFR2). > > - there is no IGP adjacency over the MPLS/SR tunnel used to bypass > non-bier-capable-node. > > Yes, this is probably something we should solve. I don't have an > answer at this point, but I'm wondering how one might find out the MTU > of this tunnel. > > > 3. It is not clear , how the BIER MTU is discovered across IGP area's ? > > My understanding is that with both OSPF and IS-IS BIER sub-TLVs can be > (it doesn't seem mandatory, but the text differs in the draft) can > leak between areas/levels. Whether this is done or not is regardless > of this draft. But when the BIER sub-TLVs are leaked, the MTU TLV > would be included. Which I think makes sense. The BFRs you receive > BIER TLVs from are the routers that you may encapsulate and send BIER > packets to, and for which you want to know the MTU. > > Thanks, > Stig > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:38 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: > >> > >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against > adoption of: > >> > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-venaas-bier-mtud/ > >> > >> ..as a BIER WG document. > >> > >> This starts a two week counter. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Chairs > >> (Shep) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> BIER mailing list > >> BIER@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --000000000000ee5f770581b621ad Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Solid support and a good discussion.=C2=A0

<= div>Authors,
Please resubmit with the WG.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 9:= 29 AM Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com> wrote:
Hi Senthil, please see comments inli= ne.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Senthil Dhanaraj
<se= nthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Few concerns on, whether the proposed solution by the draft can addres= s different scenario's and if this is the best way to go.
> Request authors to have a look.
>
> 1.=C2=A0 The draft already explains that the selected MTU for a path m= ight not be the best MTU, rather a conservative one.
> Adding to that,
>
> As per the draft, the advertised MTU indicates the size of the largest= BIER packet including the BIER header.
> But the size of the BIER header itself varies based on the selected BS= L.
>
> If there exists a node which only supports lower BSL, say BSL=3D64 and= advertises MTU considering BSL=3D64, then we force all the other nodes in = the same SD which may support/choose to use bigger BSL, say BSL=3D256 to op= erate with even lesser MTU.
>
> Makes me wonder, if we should discover MTU per SD/BSL (or) advertise l= ink MTU irrespective of L3 overhead SR/BIER.

I'm not sure if I get you. The latest version is the MTU before BIER encap (the largest possible BIER packet including the BIER header).
Hence a router supporting only BSL 64 might advertise say 1480 because
that is the largest BIER packet that can be sent (including the BIER
header). The largest packet IP this router would send out one of those
links would be 1480 - BSL64-overhead. Another router supporting say
BSL 256, would learn about the 1480 MTU advertised, so the largest IP
packet that router would send would then be 1480 - BSL256 overhead.

> 2. How do we address below scenario,
>
> BFIR=C2=A0 -- BFR1 -- Non-BIER-Node -- BFR2 -- BFER
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <=3D= =3D=3D MPLS//SR tunnel =3D=3D=3D>
>
> BFR1 may use a MPLS/SR tunnel to bypass the Non-BIER-Node.
> Note that,
>=C2=A0 - the IGP (BIER) adjacency is between (BFR1, Non-Bier-Node) and = (Non-BIER-Node, BFR2).
>=C2=A0 - there is no IGP adjacency over the MPLS/SR tunnel used to bypa= ss non-bier-capable-node.

Yes, this is probably something we should solve. I don't have an
answer at this point, but I'm wondering how one might find out the MTU<= br> of this tunnel.

> 3. It is not clear , how the BIER MTU is discovered across IGP area= 9;s ?

My understanding is that with both OSPF and IS-IS BIER sub-TLVs can be
(it doesn't seem mandatory, but the text differs in the draft) can
leak between areas/levels. Whether this is done or not is regardless
of this draft. But when the BIER sub-TLVs are leaked, the MTU TLV
would be included. Which I think makes sense. The BFRs you receive
BIER TLVs from are the routers that you may encapsulate and send BIER
packets to, and for which you want to know the MTU.

Thanks,
Stig

> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:38 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against ad= option of:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-venaas-bier-mtud/
>>
>> ..as a BIER WG document.
>>
>> This starts a two week counter.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chairs
>> (Shep)
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--000000000000ee5f770581b621ad-- From nobody Tue Feb 12 22:56:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD1C12D4EF for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:56:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NIgadc9YokvR for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com (mail-ed1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2FB412D4E6 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 10so980055eds.7 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:56:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qulBSuz98ACkR/cuJZ1r9qzJpw8HS2tOpRXy2WIZJTc=; b=XgVLWZLuJkqhmfjzv8wwJi3I9ZSiEeWdyhymrAcyvMRt2VxZ5XtA+1dLNzR2JNvFoF mg69TGfb+QypYtmWf3141VN+R18zLWfJH896hDbU+VuqmUWgU6YC4b+HubqLMGzcwOCF H0ND0mlnUXyRXpC6nLkYoCXM08TyHA2W5GLwnmgro9wCxrE119p1qBWsxRF03uNj0QAF +Y93QgJCmz468XOtpY44Pw7sdBCVSEOJ38n6Kz9A0Q2vNcXc48OR+LmVrq1CBWDDEQGu tlMDZ/JfNRgb8XcgIjW22cA4cCs9/Jg0khwfO2mnswLvuhw7chPgLgV+fL71XEcBI5d3 3S2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qulBSuz98ACkR/cuJZ1r9qzJpw8HS2tOpRXy2WIZJTc=; b=FN9I4+sFRaLsOlPXanmO37FN2UBRLbxb+TDadP3eUdpL73Kn0mTM98kJCz5XzwuahQ +NKIrzTl56PF+5//S5iL2FyGDYO7HpOLqKXAOtWbBXSj2XF2FXb0PBt3HT67Rjf/5BSo WnwieUfkOqRH8Wt16iEHAVtkgttmCPjwzzPwoknHW1TzBKw46bPf2XlNk8ry76BfTP9a o8SqXCAusZKOiVxKd6PIe6KOFQVwVVuBx7DAzvWw7OhwEITOV9sFSxBsvlA5m1VUp7MU KuRsnkGMp6tx1FGXYFFa0RT81yKvswlpt2MR4aorkL4sOzbnxKxpAaZ5UePtEYbBLa66 J9iA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYv+ER81mesmvUUwdC/qkcVYDC95RFP6oesfivhyWgDh3MpVzxq BSCs2GX32F4bAu1wjvS6OrhWiC0hyJzcLDYS8NRowqsi X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbF5ujfdkpU59Ih7AxBS3XwwS1bKcrcK26vypDAB8XatH91balCyft63ZhpwMa3GGdH3sSbV5CBEhxN683MLNQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a49:: with SMTP id x9mr5355033ejf.186.1550041000186; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:56:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Senthil Dhanaraj Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 12:27:53 +0530 Message-ID: To: Stig Venaas Cc: Greg Shepherd , BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003418f70581c10b4f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call For Adoption: draft-venaas-bier-mtud X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 06:56:46 -0000 --0000000000003418f70581c10b4f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Stig, Thanks for the explanations ! My comments inline marked with Senthil// Thanks, Senthil On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 10:59 PM Stig Venaas wrote: > Hi Senthil, please see comments inline. > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Senthil Dhanaraj > wrote: > > > > Few concerns on, whether the proposed solution by the draft can address > different scenario's and if this is the best way to go. > > Request authors to have a look. > > > > 1. The draft already explains that the selected MTU for a path might > not be the best MTU, rather a conservative one. > > Adding to that, > > > > As per the draft, the advertised MTU indicates the size of the largest > BIER packet including the BIER header. > > But the size of the BIER header itself varies based on the selected BSL. > > > > If there exists a node which only supports lower BSL, say BSL=64 and > advertises MTU considering BSL=64, then we force all the other nodes in the > same SD which may support/choose to use bigger BSL, say BSL=256 to operate > with even lesser MTU. > > > > Makes me wonder, if we should discover MTU per SD/BSL (or) advertise > link MTU irrespective of L3 overhead SR/BIER. > > I'm not sure if I get you. The latest version is the MTU before BIER > encap (the largest possible BIER packet including the BIER header). > Hence a router supporting only BSL 64 might advertise say 1480 because > that is the largest BIER packet that can be sent (including the BIER > header). The largest packet IP this router would send out one of those > links would be 1480 - BSL64-overhead. Another router supporting say > BSL 256, would learn about the 1480 MTU advertised, so the largest IP > packet that router would send would then be 1480 - BSL256 overhead. > > Senthil// Got you! So the BFIR needs to locally calculate the MTU to be used for each imposition BSL using the formula (Min-SD-MTU - FixedBierHeaderLen - BSL). Suggest consider adding text reg this to the draft. I suppose that the BFIR also needs to consider the encapsulation type as well during the MTU calculation. Good for now, as we have only two encapsulation - MPLS and Non-MPLS (ETH) with both requiring the same (bier) overhead size. > > 2. How do we address below scenario, > > > > BFIR -- BFR1 -- Non-BIER-Node -- BFR2 -- BFER > > <=== MPLS//SR tunnel ===> > > > > BFR1 may use a MPLS/SR tunnel to bypass the Non-BIER-Node. > > Note that, > > - the IGP (BIER) adjacency is between (BFR1, Non-Bier-Node) and > (Non-BIER-Node, BFR2). > > - there is no IGP adjacency over the MPLS/SR tunnel used to bypass > non-bier-capable-node. > > Yes, this is probably something we should solve. I don't have an > answer at this point, but I'm wondering how one might find out the MTU > of this tunnel. > Senthil// Right. We shall discuss further on this, as it is very important to ensure that the calculated MTU works for all the scenario's / BAR values's. > > > 3. It is not clear , how the BIER MTU is discovered across IGP area's ? > > My understanding is that with both OSPF and IS-IS BIER sub-TLVs can be > (it doesn't seem mandatory, but the text differs in the draft) can > leak between areas/levels. Whether this is done or not is regardless > of this draft. But when the BIER sub-TLVs are leaked, the MTU TLV > would be included. Which I think makes sense. The BFRs you receive > BIER TLVs from are the routers that you may encapsulate and send BIER > packets to, and for which you want to know the MTU. > > Senthil// Cool. Just a thought - Another way is to let the ABR advertises the minimum MTU value of the SD (across all the area's connected to self) as its local MTU. This might reduce some overhead (packet size, DB size, computation). > Thanks, > Stig > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:38 PM Greg Shepherd wrote: > >> > >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against > adoption of: > >> > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-venaas-bier-mtud/ > >> > >> ..as a BIER WG document. > >> > >> This starts a two week counter. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Chairs > >> (Shep) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> BIER mailing list > >> BIER@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > --0000000000003418f70581c10b4f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stig,

Thanks for the expl= anations !
My comments inline marked with Senthil//
Thanks,
Senthil

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 10:59 PM Stig = Venaas <stig@venaas.com> wrote= :
Hi Senthil, pl= ease see comments inline.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Senthil Dhanaraj
<se= nthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Few concerns on, whether the proposed solution by the draft can addres= s different scenario's and if this is the best way to go.
> Request authors to have a look.
>
> 1.=C2=A0 The draft already explains that the selected MTU for a path m= ight not be the best MTU, rather a conservative one.
> Adding to that,
>
> As per the draft, the advertised MTU indicates the size of the largest= BIER packet including the BIER header.
> But the size of the BIER header itself varies based on the selected BS= L.
>
> If there exists a node which only supports lower BSL, say BSL=3D64 and= advertises MTU considering BSL=3D64, then we force all the other nodes in = the same SD which may support/choose to use bigger BSL, say BSL=3D256 to op= erate with even lesser MTU.
>
> Makes me wonder, if we should discover MTU per SD/BSL (or) advertise l= ink MTU irrespective of L3 overhead SR/BIER.

I'm not sure if I get you. The latest version is the MTU before BIER encap (the largest possible BIER packet including the BIER header).
Hence a router supporting only BSL 64 might advertise say 1480 because
that is the largest BIER packet that can be sent (including the BIER
header). The largest packet IP this router would send out one of those
links would be 1480 - BSL64-overhead. Another router supporting say
BSL 256, would learn about the 1480 MTU advertised, so the largest IP
packet that router would send would then be 1480 - BSL256 overhead.

Senthil// Got you! So the BFIR needs to locally calcu= late the MTU to be used for each imposition BSL using the formula (Min-SD-M= TU - FixedBierHeaderLen - BSL). Suggest consider adding text reg this to th= e draft. I suppose that the BFIR also needs to consider the encapsulation t= ype as well during the MTU calculation. Good for now, as we have only two e= ncapsulation - MPLS and Non-MPLS (ETH) with both requiring the same (bier) = overhead size.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0
=C2=A0
> 2. How do we address below scenario,
>
> BFIR=C2=A0 -- BFR1 -- Non-BIER-Node -- BFR2 -- BFER
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <=3D= =3D=3D MPLS//SR tunnel =3D=3D=3D>
>
> BFR1 may use a MPLS/SR tunnel to bypass the Non-BIER-Node.
> Note that,
>=C2=A0 - the IGP (BIER) adjacency is between (BFR1, Non-Bier-Node) and = (Non-BIER-Node, BFR2).
>=C2=A0 - there is no IGP adjacency over the MPLS/SR tunnel used to bypa= ss non-bier-capable-node.

Yes, this is probably something we should solve. I don't have an
answer at this point, but I'm wondering how one might find out the MTU<= br> of this tunnel.

Senthil// Right. We sha= ll discuss further on this, as it is very important to ensure that the calc= ulated MTU works for all the scenario's / BAR values's.=C2=A0
=

> 3. It is not clear , how the BIER MTU is discovered across IGP area= 9;s ?

My understanding is that with both OSPF and IS-IS BIER sub-TLVs can be
(it doesn't seem mandatory, but the text differs in the draft) can
leak between areas/levels. Whether this is done or not is regardless
of this draft. But when the BIER sub-TLVs are leaked, the MTU TLV
would be included. Which I think makes sense. The BFRs you receive
BIER TLVs from are the routers that you may encapsulate and send BIER
packets to, and for which you want to know the MTU.

Senthil// Cool. Just a thought - Another way is to le= t the ABR advertises the minimum MTU value of the SD (across all the area&#= 39;s connected to self) as its local MTU. This might reduce some overhead (= packet size, DB size, computation).=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Thanks,
Stig

> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:38 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against ad= option of:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-venaas-bier-mtud/
>>
>> ..as a BIER WG document.
>>
>> This starts a two week counter.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chairs
>> (Shep)
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
--0000000000003418f70581c10b4f-- From nobody Wed Feb 13 09:34:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BE11289FA for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:34:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A_cbduQ4S-rh for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it1-x134.google.com (mail-it1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 981511200B3 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it1-x134.google.com with SMTP id o131so7644542itc.5 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:34:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=1ZZGXyToXII2skSMmqeJpkCsgLkFChFs3NVQqaEqud0=; b=lCElRpqXQKS+YREYjnGZxxWKxvdQTWVo/6+Jy3CvtDAWLX1Z7NNfPv5hcOqLY4WFTh otfOPf4ZNu0Cey6DLTXyFa7TIrO45U+uIVeOIuZ+rrXL3OmYdY+bLWxkukLyCgzDN5OF hnGI+5RGHg2NCvjtjuxNHcesynQpOWy4JnWVTGWE+xoVSi5lq1AtkxbvdbZOvlxjCitf OmAUCJpej5ih9jh+AAwH5kAIZdkK1T2i/qXrPA8wS7xmN3GCgeBEvUNx/CgwhzlUuGs6 HKNbqqHWbqBCFEcTffxNOVw7S28dI0oBS9X+82o3pyuuPHcIDso7OAMSmjRa53NhKQiZ 3jRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1ZZGXyToXII2skSMmqeJpkCsgLkFChFs3NVQqaEqud0=; b=Uao1f6jpaL+mqpQBgT9fhWTi3q/xu4LZ2/9TCldC0ECYHYate6qI5HAmEOu1iycKbL l48Gs3eEf1snFh9cKaL1nzo2DojxNHKZpdwm6xE9bkLV3gkvl1x8kH1lptFRxbdLcQMh ei7ZrRrDkjPCYgjTJQnzxDslVymaFRcVhNunvkQkgajs3E79Gc51Zrpq4E5bLC0NzmeV hOIaHOyp3UM+85IbZc6TlKM/dHvuSBkiSY1Qg/wwoV0Hio1ij4BaGhItSIVESGEzglb8 R2e30vl37jCTKBCCUPGAy1nGo7gLe+Xcy2yM71W+U9SM+nPFOB/BjjBokSLdCXTU2z12 InSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuaD0S+eTZtCvLMSlLaCeCQiaANwSgSUyONCO/zzLbpkn63ulQyF conxZi202y41M6A7jsWtmhDj3eU9qdB/0aYpmU4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaSzhbMT4xKjc1ECu1kWnPoeg4ZDb06jBU1RZr5eP3E2zpTbMw02AERtJ7LChv5ApmqHvj/2v2n99tqIrX4+zk= X-Received: by 2002:a24:918a:: with SMTP id i132mr720026ite.138.1550079279787; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:34:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57d5277f-a0be-4720-a764-a6b09cd196a4.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <57d5277f-a0be-4720-a764-a6b09cd196a4.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:34:28 -0800 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?= Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d874100581c9f40c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 17:34:42 -0000 --000000000000d874100581c9f40c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like we are there. We need a Doc Shepherd to move this past WGLC. Doc Shepherd Volunteers needed! Thanks, Chairs (Shep) On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 5:32 PM =E5=BE=90=E5=B0=8F=E8=99=8E(=E4=B9=89=E5=85= =88) wrote: > Support as one co-author. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > From:Greg Shepherd > Send Time:2019=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=85=AD)= 04:13 > To:BIER WG > Subject:[Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding > > > Change of subject. This is WGLC for: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/ > > Same two week timer. > > Thanks > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:13 AM Greg Shepherd wrote: > Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption > of: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding/ > > ..as a BIER WG document. > > This starts a two week counter. > > Thanks, > Chairs > (Shep) > > --000000000000d874100581c9f40c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looks like we are there. We need a Doc Shepherd to move th= is past WGLC.

Doc Shepherd Volunteers needed!
=
Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)

On Mon, Jan 2= 8, 2019 at 5:32 PM =E5=BE=90=E5=B0=8F=E8=99=8E(=E4=B9=89=E5=85=88) <xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>= ; wrote:
Support as one co-author.

<= div style=3D"clear:both">Best regards,
Xiaoh= u

------------= ------------------------------------------------------
From:Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Send T= ime:2019=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=85=AD) 04:13
To:BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
S= ubject:[Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-non-mpls-bift-encoding


Change of subject. This is WG= LC for:


Same two week timer.

Thanks

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at= 10:13 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote:
Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against a= doption of:

=
..as a BIER WG document.

This start= s a two week counter.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)
<= /blockquote> --000000000000d874100581c9f40c-- From nobody Wed Feb 13 09:40:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB60E128766 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:40:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3g6jHUVgWaJJ for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it1-x130.google.com (mail-it1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 132761200B3 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it1-x130.google.com with SMTP id y184so7759937itc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:40:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=3TMymrsalPTJYM0upv3jknSnDGpLtvkVM2Y9zCgO4x4=; b=U+WJN3afh57p6D8VWzhd5jQjNevOo/jlkEeOIRFzF7s0z4s8yG0oQeVFhINq6G/nPN PFjNC2xUJVF7LMXwuC/wJrdfuO3NFZL/zcVbZdkUhutcNfOhU2q1dI97d7XkDtATAxxr i1Rq4tkNP1d4F7y3tLR2hybFT6WKOkrRWyi8xSzdDG5bvHMx7jDT+mdz9G5r5EgUouDA kjWUtUi0kjjn4jRKiy3jO6hMxwCnNEZmrOE6Ja1Cw6ezFPDVoWvSgG67CRpx6rvr4+n9 GZnCzBEh4OYXlcEd2fzYldoegSjF1CfAc93J9YU6VhK/jO7CATJIR7pX2/ezC6dCTSL1 gPTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3TMymrsalPTJYM0upv3jknSnDGpLtvkVM2Y9zCgO4x4=; b=RvjWjpXsEygJhMAsLWjMJz/MFZmcudGieu2hgY/3m6g/9drCJye3/ldCszaxV5CLYK OIw2I1JU+kf2e0iFop3BPb8RAQwqUIwSbRiMh0gRJzoXpXvW2UtLrbY9k4skhKkL2U/n P4aUXe195eCVFEz8kpIFaE9uZMIiFL63JGD9hxZQ6HNfXp/BSnQDYdt/K0KVz1wM//EU VWbnxEzBn7wIIXvm1RoADwqcW3KUUso83NkN0WCPN/cPqLEu4k+yNO3p26hoP08TarUE c3VrYo7OLkYZirCH+DLO18jqdA44dY3QAhFIwG0UpLT32fn6Wf7t98OP8JaCzYgIB9UE bRmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuY/qKFR4f0qF0eABOGWUdzjp2ZpRIeRuwCASfcwq1fxFzp5gvIc GLTwexNBoMqXiDAgye1P+gjSPA71Ds4t/gcJh48= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ia2N4SbkEiYJXrG4Dgu4DH8EuoAsrXPWypv2+b3UAwfkfvnSTwuCKtF70FK0Wwo0Q4kyqjeFor2OXFG4N+kbpU= X-Received: by 2002:a24:918a:: with SMTP id i132mr735161ite.138.1550079629116; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:40:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <40FC316A-D5BC-4E78-8144-CB09BDFC3D65@juniper.net> <4EAAACBA-9ED2-43EA-8469-3C421E9BA335@cisco.com> <11717C54-A75F-4322-B95B-9E8D76262A75@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:40:17 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" , "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" , BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aaca090581ca099d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 17:40:36 -0000 --000000000000aaca090581ca099d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great discussion, thanks. Clearly more work, but that's why it's here. However none of the discussion included votes to/for adoption. :) Please reply for/against adoption as a WG item. Thanks, Chairs (Shep) On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4:43 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) < hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote: > Hi Jeffrey > > Thanks, I suggest to have a talk between your self, me and ICE in Prague > before any thing new is submitted so we are in complete sync. > > Assuming if we are going after multiple ways of signaling it might be > beneficial to have a common dataplane procedure. > > I think no Mather what signaling we use (PCE, BGP etc...) the datapath > portion is similar to what is suggested in the datapath forwarding sectio= n > of the current draft. > > Regards > > Hooman > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:05 PM > To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) > Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; gjshep@gmail.com; > BIER WG > Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > Hi Hooman, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 4:08 PM > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; IJsbrand Wijnands > > (iwijnand) > > Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; > > gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > > > Just to be clear so the suggestion here is > > > > 1. we will go forward with a SDN general solution > > An SDN solution makes sense if targeted mLDP or BGP-MVPN does not work fo= r > some customer. If you develop the SDN approach, would be good to generali= ze > it. > > > > 2. RFC 7060 for non SDN mLDP only solution (by the way Jeffrey I > thought > > you said we don't need a draft for 7060 and BIER stitching, i.e. > > pim-signaling will cover this also? ) > > Not sure why you mention pim-signaling above. It's not related. > > Jeffrey > > > > > Correct? > > > > Regards > > > > Hooman > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:33 PM > > To: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) > > Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > > Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; gjshep@gmail.com; > > BIER WG > > Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > > > And that mLDP control plane is not hop by hop through the core. It > > hops over the entire core. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jan 26, 2019, at 5:40 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Hooman, > > > > > >> We are gone have fully mesh TLDP between EBBRs and IBBRs, the > > dataplane on most if not all BIER routers will support MPLS anyway. > > >> > > >> If the network already supports and implemented mLDP then what is > > >> the > > incentive to go to TLDP, one would keep mLDP P2MP tunnels in parallel > > with BIER and be done with. > > > > > > There is a big difference between running mLDP as the data-plane vs. > > > tLDP > > as the control-plane. tLDP is just a TCP session to carry the Label > > Mappings across. And the EBBR and IBBR=E2=80=99s have already a LDP pro= cess > > running in order to border between BIER and mLDP. So a provider is not > > adding any new control=E2=80=94plane, just re-using what is already the= re. To > > me that makes a lot of sense. > > > > > > Thx, > > > > > > Ice. > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> I am open with BGP signaling that said I am not sure if I > > >> understand the > > MVPN comment? As in segmented tunnels? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hooman > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Send from mobile > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 8:24 PM > > >> To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > >> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa); gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I would say that this draft could be for controller based option. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> One can still use RFC7060/MVPN/GTM+BIER, with just a little bit > > clarification on BIER specifics: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> - For RFC7060 method, specify BIER parameters for base tunnel as an > > =E2=80=9Cinterface=E2=80=9D. > > >> > > >> - For MVPN/GTM method, point out that the procedure in > > >> draft-ietf-bier- > > mvpn applies to mLDP case as well, with GTM or MVPN. Need to exam if > > GTM needs a bit more work. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I can start a short draft to include the above two options. I think > > >> the > > controller option should be in its own draft because a lot of new > > details need to spelled out, and in theory that could be generalized. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Does it mean we making / concluding solution which MUST have > controller ? > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPad > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> That looks better =E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> What are the =E2=80=9Clabel, label-action, BGP PTA opaque=E2=80=9D i= n #2 for? > > >> > > >> In #5, PCE only needs to tell EBBR the label and list of IBBRs, and > > >> tell IBBRs > > the label and the EBBR. > > >> > > >> Oh, who determines what subdomain to use? Should it be the PCE? > > Perhaps add subdomain to the above line. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> BTW in concept this is no different from BGP-MVPN method (except > > >> the > > label assignment and EBBR determination) =F0=9F=98=8A > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A2 You have a session between the controller and every bor= der > > >> router > > (PCEP vs. BGP) > > >> =E2=80=A2 You have to encode the FEC/label and signal to every EB= BR/IBBR > > >> (PCEP > > vs. BGP) > > >> > > >> > > >> It does have the SDN halo ... I=E2=80=99m good with that =F0=9F=98= =8A > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Now will you be tempted to consider the following? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for (s,g)/(*,g) traffic, whether in a VP= N or in > > >> the global > > table? > > >> =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for other tunnel types? > > >> > > >> > > >> After all, the infrastructure you build for mLDP over BIER equally > > >> applies to > > the above two additional scenarios. > > >> > > >> Then, do we make it generic? If yes, where do we do it =F0=9F=98=8A > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:41 PM > > >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; gjshep@gmail.com; > > BIER WG > > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Ok lets converge to the controller solution then=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> As of now the controller solution was written that all the PCUpd is > > >> done via > > the EBBR (BFIR) I will change the solution so that the PCUpd is done > > on IBBR > > (BFER) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 1. the IBBR will determined that the source of the FEC is over BIER > domain. > > >> > > >> 2. IBBR will send PCUpd to the PCE with source-ip, label, > > >> label-action, BGP > > PTA opaque etc=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> 3. PCE will assign a BIER domain label for stitching to this P2MP > > >> LSP (mLDP) > > >> > > >> 4. PCE will determine the EBBR base on the information provided by > > >> IBBR > > >> > > >> 5. PCE will update the EBBR with NHLFE (stitch LDP to BIER domain > > >> label) > > information and IBBR with NHLFE (stitch BIER domain label to LDP) > > information > > >> > > >> 6. as IBBRs come online for that specific P2MP LSP (i.e. that > > >> specific source > > and opaque) the PCE will update the EBBR with list of IBBRs so the > > EBBR can build its beir header accordingly > > >> > > >> 7 traffic will arrive from ldp domain to BFIR swap labels from LDP > > >> to BIER > > domain label. In addition push bier header forward to BFERs > > >> > > >> Etc=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Maybe SDN will satisfy every body concerns=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hooman > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:23 PM > > >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > > gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Hooman, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> For 3) below, you still have LDP on the border routers and access > > >> interfaces, > > and the TLDP is not tied to interfaces, so I still don=E2=80=99t see a = issue > with TLDP. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Controller based solution may be ok (I need to read that more > > >> closely), but > > I can=E2=80=99t support the refreshed inline messages. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks. > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:16 PM > > >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; gjshep@gmail.com; > > BIER WG > > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou! > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> My 2 cents > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPLS > protocols. > > >> > > >> 2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not > > >> against this but > > it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also. > > >> > > >> 3. I still don=E2=80=99t see a issue why a thin layer of generic sig= naling > > >> with refresh > > timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that > > why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate) > > >> > > >> 4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the challenge > > >> ( maybe > > this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a > > BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER > > domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller > > assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit > > message. Same type of idea for release message=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field > > >> deployment where > > portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded firs= t. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hooman > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: BIER On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) > > >> Zhang > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM > > >> To: gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don=E2=80= =99t > > >> think we=E2=80=99re > > ready to adopt this draft yet. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER core: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A2 RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions > > >> =E2=80=A2 BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE protocol > > >> =E2=80=A2 This draft-hj > > >> > > >> > > >> #1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core. > > >> > > >> For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now with a > > >> BIER > > core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER. > > Although draft- ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than > > that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need > > to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) t= o > cover mLDP as the access protocol. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> #3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft state > > messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense. > > >> > > >> One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not want to > > >> run LDP > > session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that =E2=80=93 on the = border > > routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really > > don=E2=80=99t see the concern with running targeted session over the co= re. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks. > > >> > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg > > >> Shepherd > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM > > >> To: BIER WG > > >> Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against > adoption of: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp- > > 2Dsignaling_&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& > > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- > > zBEQ&s=3Dey6RLaJG8XZW0q7ua9BYDpy2ZPZ1SzYlDytynfJEyGw&e=3D > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ..as a BIER WG document. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> This starts a two week counter. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Chairs > > >> > > >> (Shep) > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BIER mailing list > > >> BIER@ietf.org > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scb > > fh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& > > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- > > zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BIER mailing list > > >> BIER@ietf.org > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scb > > fh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& > > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- > > zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D > > > > --000000000000aaca090581ca099d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great discussion, thanks. Clearly more work, but that'= s why it's here. However none of the discussion included votes to/for a= doption. :)

Please reply for/against adoption as a W= G item.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)<= /div>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4:43 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) &l= t;hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com&= gt; wrote:
Hi Jeffrey

Thanks, I suggest to have a talk between your self, me and ICE in Prague be= fore any thing new is submitted so we are in complete sync.

Assuming if we are going after multiple ways of signaling it might be benef= icial to have a common dataplane procedure.

I think no Mather what signaling we use (PCE, BGP etc...)=C2=A0 the datapat= h portion is similar to what is suggested in the datapath forwarding sectio= n of the current draft.

Regards

Hooman

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:05 PM
To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>; IJsbrand W= ijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>; gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling

Hi Hooman,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 4:08 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; IJsbrand Wijnands
> (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
> Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>;
> gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>
> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
> Just to be clear so the suggestion here is
>
> 1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 we will go forward with a SDN general solution

An SDN solution makes sense if targeted mLDP or BGP-MVPN does not work for = some customer. If you develop the SDN approach, would be good to generalize= it.


> 2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 7060 for non SDN mLDP only solution (by the way Je= ffrey I thought
> you said we don't need a draft for 7060 and BIER stitching, i.e. <= br> > pim-signaling will cover this also? )

Not sure why you mention pim-signaling above. It's not related.

Jeffrey

>
> Correct?
>
> Regards
>
> Hooman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:33 PM
> To: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>;
> Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>; gjshep@gmail.com;
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
> And that mLDP control plane is not hop by hop through the core. It > hops over the entire core.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 26, 2019, at 5:40 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)
> <iwijnand@c= isco.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Hooman,
> >
> >> We are gone have fully mesh TLDP between EBBRs and IBBRs, the=
> dataplane on most if not all BIER routers will support MPLS anyway. > >>
> >> If the network already supports and implemented mLDP then wha= t is
> >> the
> incentive to go to TLDP, one would keep mLDP P2MP tunnels in parallel =
> with BIER and be done with.
> >
> > There is a big difference between running mLDP as the data-plane = vs.
> > tLDP
> as the control-plane. tLDP is just a TCP session to carry the Label > Mappings across. And the EBBR and IBBR=E2=80=99s have already a LDP pr= ocess
> running in order to border between BIER and mLDP. So a provider is not=
> adding any new control=E2=80=94plane, just re-using what is already th= ere. To
> me that makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> > Ice.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I am open with BGP signaling that said I am not sure if I > >> understand the
> MVPN comment? As in segmented tunnels?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Send from mobile
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 8:24 PM
> >> To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
> >> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa); gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG
> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I would say that this draft could be for controller based opt= ion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> One can still use RFC7060/MVPN/GTM+BIER, with just a little b= it
> clarification on BIER specifics:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - For RFC7060 method, specify BIER parameters for base tunnel= as an
> =E2=80=9Cinterface=E2=80=9D.
> >>
> >> - For MVPN/GTM method, point out that the procedure in
> >> draft-ietf-bier-
> mvpn applies to mLDP case as well, with GTM or MVPN. Need to exam if <= br> > GTM needs a bit more work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I can start a short draft to include the above two options. I= think
> >> the
> controller option should be in its own draft because a lot of new
> details need to spelled out, and in theory that could be generalized.<= br> > >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
> <mankamis@c= isco.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does it mean we making / concluding solution which MUST have = controller ?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> >> <z= zhang@juniper.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> That looks better =E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What are the =E2=80=9Clabel, label-action, BGP PTA opaque=E2= =80=9D in #2 for?
> >>
> >> In #5, PCE only needs to tell EBBR the label and list of IBBR= s, and
> >> tell IBBRs
> the label and the EBBR.
> >>
> >> Oh, who determines what subdomain to use? Should it be the PC= E?
> Perhaps add subdomain to the above line.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW in concept this is no different from BGP-MVPN method (exc= ept
> >> the
> label assignment and EBBR determination) =F0=9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 You have a session between the control= ler and every border
> >> router
> (PCEP vs. BGP)
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 You have to encode the FEC/label and s= ignal to every EBBR/IBBR
> >> (PCEP
> vs. BGP)
> >>
> >>
> >> It does have the SDN halo ... I=E2=80=99m good with that =F0= =9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Now will you be tempted to consider the following?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for (s,g)/(*,g) traffic= , whether in a VPN or in
> >> the global
> table?
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for other tunnel types?=
> >>
> >>
> >> After all, the infrastructure you build for mLDP over BIER eq= ually
> >> applies to
> the above two additional scenarios.
> >>
> >> Then, do we make it generic? If yes, where do we do it =F0=9F= =98=8A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:41 PM
> >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; gjshep@gmail.com;
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ok lets converge to the controller solution then=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As of now the controller solution was written that all the PC= Upd is
> >> done via
> the EBBR (BFIR) I will change the solution so that the PCUpd is done <= br> > on IBBR
> (BFER)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. the IBBR will determined that the source of the FEC is ove= r BIER domain.
> >>
> >> 2. IBBR will send PCUpd to the PCE with source-ip, label, > >> label-action, BGP
> PTA opaque etc=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >> 3. PCE will assign a BIER domain label for stitching to this = P2MP
> >> LSP (mLDP)
> >>
> >> 4. PCE will determine the EBBR base on the information provid= ed by
> >> IBBR
> >>
> >> 5. PCE will update the EBBR with NHLFE (stitch LDP to BIER do= main
> >> label)
> information=C2=A0 and IBBR with NHLFE (stitch BIER domain label to LDP= )
> information
> >>
> >> 6. as IBBRs come online for that specific P2MP LSP (i.e. that=
> >> specific source
> and opaque) the PCE will update the EBBR with list of IBBRs so the > EBBR can build its beir header accordingly
> >>
> >> 7 traffic will arrive from ldp domain to BFIR swap labels fro= m LDP
> >> to BIER
> domain label. In addition push bier header forward to BFERs
> >>
> >> Etc=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe SDN will satisfy every body concerns=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:23 PM
> >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com&g= t;;
> gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Hooman,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For 3) below, you still have LDP on the border routers and ac= cess
> >> interfaces,
> and the TLDP is not tied to interfaces, so I still don=E2=80=99t see a= issue with TLDP.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Controller based solution may be ok (I need to read that more=
> >> closely), but
> I can=E2=80=99t support the refreshed inline messages.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:16 PM
> >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; gjshep@gmail.com;
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My 2 cents
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPL= S protocols.
> >>
> >> 2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not=
> >> against this but
> it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also.
> >>
> >> 3. I still don=E2=80=99t see a issue why a thin layer of gene= ric signaling
> >> with refresh
> timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that =
> why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate)
> >>
> >> 4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the cha= llenge
> >> ( maybe
> this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a > BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER <= br> > domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller
> assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit <= br> > message. Same type of idea for release message=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field =
> >> deployment where
> portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded fir= st.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) <= br> > >> Zhang
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM
> >> To: gjs= hep@gmail.com; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don= =E2=80=99t
> >> think we=E2=80=99re
> ready to adopt this draft yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER = core:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE pr= otocol
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 This draft-hj
> >>
> >>
> >> #1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core.=
> >>
> >> For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now wi= th a
> >> BIER
> core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER.
> Although draft- ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than > that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need <= br> > to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) = to cover mLDP as the access protocol.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> #3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft s= tate
> messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense.
> >>
> >> One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not wan= t to
> >> run LDP
> session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that =E2=80=93 on the= border
> routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really =
> don=E2=80=99t see the concern with running targeted session over the c= ore.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> >> Shepherd
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM
> >> To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signalin= g
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/again= st adoption of:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v= 2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp-
> 2Dsignaling_&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3Dey6RLaJG8XZW0q7ua9BYDpy2ZPZ1SzYlDytynfJEyGw&e=3D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ..as a BIER WG document.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This starts a two week counter.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Chairs
> >>
> >> (Shep)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.= org
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v= 2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63= rsuhr6Scb
> fh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.= org
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v= 2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63= rsuhr6Scb
> fh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D
> >
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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:55:18 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" Cc: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" , "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" , BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000024bbec0581d2a1ed" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 03:55:36 -0000 --00000000000024bbec0581d2a1ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed. But besides Ice I didn't catch anyone else's vote. :) Thanks, Greg On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 7:15 PM Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) < andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> wrote: > Greg, > > > > As the discussion shows we are nowhere close to adopt this draft. We stil= l > talking of multiple things and how to converge. It is thus premature, in = my > opinion, to adopt this draft. > > > > Kind regards, > > Andrew > > > > > > On 2019-02-14, 1:40 AM, "BIER on behalf of Greg Shepherd" < > bier-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of gjshep@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Great discussion, thanks. Clearly more work, but that's why it's here. > However none of the discussion included votes to/for adoption. :) > > > > Please reply for/against adoption as a WG item. > > > > Thanks, > > Chairs > > (Shep) > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4:43 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) < > hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote: > > Hi Jeffrey > > Thanks, I suggest to have a talk between your self, me and ICE in Prague > before any thing new is submitted so we are in complete sync. > > Assuming if we are going after multiple ways of signaling it might be > beneficial to have a common dataplane procedure. > > I think no Mather what signaling we use (PCE, BGP etc...) the datapath > portion is similar to what is suggested in the datapath forwarding sectio= n > of the current draft. > > Regards > > Hooman > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:05 PM > To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) > Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; gjshep@gmail.com > ; BIER WG > Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > Hi Hooman, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 4:08 PM > > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; IJsbrand Wijnands > > (iwijnand) > > Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; > > gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > > > Just to be clear so the suggestion here is > > > > 1. we will go forward with a SDN general solution > > An SDN solution makes sense if targeted mLDP or BGP-MVPN does not work fo= r > some customer. If you develop the SDN approach, would be good to generali= ze > it. > > > > 2. RFC 7060 for non SDN mLDP only solution (by the way Jeffrey I > thought > > you said we don't need a draft for 7060 and BIER stitching, i.e. > > pim-signaling will cover this also? ) > > Not sure why you mention pim-signaling above. It's not related. > > Jeffrey > > > > > Correct? > > > > Regards > > > > Hooman > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:33 PM > > To: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) > > Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > > Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; gjshep@gmail.com; > > BIER WG > > Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > > > And that mLDP control plane is not hop by hop through the core. It > > hops over the entire core. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jan 26, 2019, at 5:40 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Hooman, > > > > > >> We are gone have fully mesh TLDP between EBBRs and IBBRs, the > > dataplane on most if not all BIER routers will support MPLS anyway. > > >> > > >> If the network already supports and implemented mLDP then what is > > >> the > > incentive to go to TLDP, one would keep mLDP P2MP tunnels in parallel > > with BIER and be done with. > > > > > > There is a big difference between running mLDP as the data-plane vs. > > > tLDP > > as the control-plane. tLDP is just a TCP session to carry the Label > > Mappings across. And the EBBR and IBBR=E2=80=99s have already a LDP pro= cess > > running in order to border between BIER and mLDP. So a provider is not > > adding any new control=E2=80=94plane, just re-using what is already the= re. To > > me that makes a lot of sense. > > > > > > Thx, > > > > > > Ice. > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> I am open with BGP signaling that said I am not sure if I > > >> understand the > > MVPN comment? As in segmented tunnels? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hooman > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Send from mobile > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 8:24 PM > > >> To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > >> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa); gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I would say that this draft could be for controller based option. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> One can still use RFC7060/MVPN/GTM+BIER, with just a little bit > > clarification on BIER specifics: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> - For RFC7060 method, specify BIER parameters for base tunnel as an > > =E2=80=9Cinterface=E2=80=9D. > > >> > > >> - For MVPN/GTM method, point out that the procedure in > > >> draft-ietf-bier- > > mvpn applies to mLDP case as well, with GTM or MVPN. Need to exam if > > GTM needs a bit more work. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I can start a short draft to include the above two options. I think > > >> the > > controller option should be in its own draft because a lot of new > > details need to spelled out, and in theory that could be generalized. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Does it mean we making / concluding solution which MUST have > controller ? > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPad > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> That looks better =E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> What are the =E2=80=9Clabel, label-action, BGP PTA opaque=E2=80=9D i= n #2 for? > > >> > > >> In #5, PCE only needs to tell EBBR the label and list of IBBRs, and > > >> tell IBBRs > > the label and the EBBR. > > >> > > >> Oh, who determines what subdomain to use? Should it be the PCE? > > Perhaps add subdomain to the above line. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> BTW in concept this is no different from BGP-MVPN method (except > > >> the > > label assignment and EBBR determination) =F0=9F=98=8A > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A2 You have a session between the controller and every bor= der > > >> router > > (PCEP vs. BGP) > > >> =E2=80=A2 You have to encode the FEC/label and signal to every EB= BR/IBBR > > >> (PCEP > > vs. BGP) > > >> > > >> > > >> It does have the SDN halo ... I=E2=80=99m good with that =F0=9F=98= =8A > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Now will you be tempted to consider the following? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for (s,g)/(*,g) traffic, whether in a VP= N or in > > >> the global > > table? > > >> =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for other tunnel types? > > >> > > >> > > >> After all, the infrastructure you build for mLDP over BIER equally > > >> applies to > > the above two additional scenarios. > > >> > > >> Then, do we make it generic? If yes, where do we do it =F0=9F=98=8A > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:41 PM > > >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; gjshep@gmail.com; > > BIER WG > > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Ok lets converge to the controller solution then=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> As of now the controller solution was written that all the PCUpd is > > >> done via > > the EBBR (BFIR) I will change the solution so that the PCUpd is done > > on IBBR > > (BFER) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 1. the IBBR will determined that the source of the FEC is over BIER > domain. > > >> > > >> 2. IBBR will send PCUpd to the PCE with source-ip, label, > > >> label-action, BGP > > PTA opaque etc=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> 3. PCE will assign a BIER domain label for stitching to this P2MP > > >> LSP (mLDP) > > >> > > >> 4. PCE will determine the EBBR base on the information provided by > > >> IBBR > > >> > > >> 5. PCE will update the EBBR with NHLFE (stitch LDP to BIER domain > > >> label) > > information and IBBR with NHLFE (stitch BIER domain label to LDP) > > information > > >> > > >> 6. as IBBRs come online for that specific P2MP LSP (i.e. that > > >> specific source > > and opaque) the PCE will update the EBBR with list of IBBRs so the > > EBBR can build its beir header accordingly > > >> > > >> 7 traffic will arrive from ldp domain to BFIR swap labels from LDP > > >> to BIER > > domain label. In addition push bier header forward to BFERs > > >> > > >> Etc=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Maybe SDN will satisfy every body concerns=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hooman > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:23 PM > > >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > > gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Hooman, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> For 3) below, you still have LDP on the border routers and access > > >> interfaces, > > and the TLDP is not tied to interfaces, so I still don=E2=80=99t see a = issue > with TLDP. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Controller based solution may be ok (I need to read that more > > >> closely), but > > I can=E2=80=99t support the refreshed inline messages. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks. > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:16 PM > > >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; gjshep@gmail.com; > > BIER WG > > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou! > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> My 2 cents > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPLS > protocols. > > >> > > >> 2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not > > >> against this but > > it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also. > > >> > > >> 3. I still don=E2=80=99t see a issue why a thin layer of generic sig= naling > > >> with refresh > > timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that > > why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate) > > >> > > >> 4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the challenge > > >> ( maybe > > this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a > > BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER > > domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller > > assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit > > message. Same type of idea for release message=E2=80=A6 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field > > >> deployment where > > portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded firs= t. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hooman > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: BIER On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) > > >> Zhang > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM > > >> To: gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG > > >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don=E2=80= =99t > > >> think we=E2=80=99re > > ready to adopt this draft yet. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER core: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> =E2=80=A2 RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions > > >> =E2=80=A2 BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE protocol > > >> =E2=80=A2 This draft-hj > > >> > > >> > > >> #1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core. > > >> > > >> For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now with a > > >> BIER > > core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER. > > Although draft- ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than > > that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need > > to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) t= o > cover mLDP as the access protocol. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> #3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft state > > messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense. > > >> > > >> One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not want to > > >> run LDP > > session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that =E2=80=93 on the = border > > routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really > > don=E2=80=99t see the concern with running targeted session over the co= re. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks. > > >> > > >> Jeffrey > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg > > >> Shepherd > > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM > > >> To: BIER WG > > >> Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against > adoption of: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp- > > 2Dsignaling_&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& > > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- > > zBEQ&s=3Dey6RLaJG8XZW0q7ua9BYDpy2ZPZ1SzYlDytynfJEyGw&e=3D > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ..as a BIER WG document. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> This starts a two week counter. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Chairs > > >> > > >> (Shep) > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BIER mailing list > > >> BIER@ietf.org > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scb > > fh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& > > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- > > zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> BIER mailing list > > >> BIER@ietf.org > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scb > > fh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& > > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- > > zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D > > > > > --00000000000024bbec0581d2a1ed Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agreed. But besides Ice I didn't catch anyone else'= ;s vote. :)

Thanks,
Greg

On Wed, Feb 13, = 2019 at 7:15 PM Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> wrote:
<= /div>

Greg,

=C2=A0

As the discussion shows we are = nowhere close to adopt this draft. We still talking of multiple things and = how to converge. It is thus premature, in my opinion, to adopt this draft.<= u>

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 2019-02-14, 1:40 AM, &= quot;BIER on behalf of Greg Shepherd" <bier-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of gjshep@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

=C2=A0

Great discussion, thanks.= Clearly more work, but that's why it's here. However none of the d= iscussion included votes to/for adoption. :)

=C2=A0

Please reply for/against = adoption as a WG item.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Chairs

(Shep)

=C2=A0

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4= :43 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:

Hi Jeffrey

Thanks, I suggest to have a talk between your self, me and ICE in Prague be= fore any thing new is submitted so we are in complete sync.

Assuming if we are going after multiple ways of signaling it might be benef= icial to have a common dataplane procedure.

I think no Mather what signaling we use (PCE, BGP etc...)=C2=A0 the datapat= h portion is similar to what is suggested in the datapath forwarding sectio= n of the current draft.

Regards

Hooman

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:05 PM
To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>; IJsbrand W= ijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>; gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@ietf.= org>
Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling

Hi Hooman,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 4:08 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; IJsbrand Wijnands
> (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
> Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>;
> gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>
> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
> Just to be clear so the suggestion here is
>
> 1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 we will go forward with a SDN general solution

An SDN solution makes sense if targeted mLDP or BGP-MVPN does not work for = some customer. If you develop the SDN approach, would be good to generalize= it.


> 2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 7060 for non SDN mLDP only solution (by the way Je= ffrey I thought
> you said we don't need a draft for 7060 and BIER stitching, i.e. <= br> > pim-signaling will cover this also? )

Not sure why you mention pim-signaling above. It's not related.

Jeffrey

>
> Correct?
>
> Regards
>
> Hooman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:33 PM
> To: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>;
> Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>; gjshep@gmail.com;=
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
> And that mLDP control plane is not hop by hop through the core. It > hops over the entire core.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 26, 2019, at 5:40 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)
> <iwijnand@c= isco.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Hooman,
> >
> >> We are gone have fully mesh TLDP between EBBRs and IBBRs, the=
> dataplane on most if not all BIER routers will support MPLS anyway. > >>
> >> If the network already supports and implemented mLDP then wha= t is
> >> the
> incentive to go to TLDP, one would keep mLDP P2MP tunnels in parallel =
> with BIER and be done with.
> >
> > There is a big difference between running mLDP as the data-plane = vs.
> > tLDP
> as the control-plane. tLDP is just a TCP session to carry the Label > Mappings across. And the EBBR and IBBR=E2=80=99s have already a LDP pr= ocess
> running in order to border between BIER and mLDP. So a provider is not=
> adding any new control=E2=80=94plane, just re-using what is already th= ere. To
> me that makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> > Ice.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I am open with BGP signaling that said I am not sure if I > >> understand the
> MVPN comment? As in segmented tunnels?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Send from mobile
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 8:24 PM
> >> To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
> >> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa); gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG
> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I would say that this draft could be for controller based opt= ion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> One can still use RFC7060/MVPN/GTM+BIER, with just a little b= it
> clarification on BIER specifics:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - For RFC7060 method, specify BIER parameters for base tunnel= as an
> =E2=80=9Cinterface=E2=80=9D.
> >>
> >> - For MVPN/GTM method, point out that the procedure in
> >> draft-ietf-bier-
> mvpn applies to mLDP case as well, with GTM or MVPN. Need to exam if <= br> > GTM needs a bit more work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I can start a short draft to include the above two options. I= think
> >> the
> controller option should be in its own draft because a lot of new
> details need to spelled out, and in theory that could be generalized.<= br> > >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
> <mankamis@c= isco.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does it mean we making / concluding solution which MUST have = controller ?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> >> <z= zhang@juniper.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> That looks better =E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What are the =E2=80=9Clabel, label-action, BGP PTA opaque=E2= =80=9D in #2 for?
> >>
> >> In #5, PCE only needs to tell EBBR the label and list of IBBR= s, and
> >> tell IBBRs
> the label and the EBBR.
> >>
> >> Oh, who determines what subdomain to use? Should it be the PC= E?
> Perhaps add subdomain to the above line.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW in concept this is no different from BGP-MVPN method (exc= ept
> >> the
> label assignment and EBBR determination) =F0=9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 You have a session between the control= ler and every border
> >> router
> (PCEP vs. BGP)
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 You have to encode the FEC/label and s= ignal to every EBBR/IBBR
> >> (PCEP
> vs. BGP)
> >>
> >>
> >> It does have the SDN halo ... I=E2=80=99m good with that =F0=9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Now will you be tempted to consider the following?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for (s,g)/(*,g) traffic= , whether in a VPN or in
> >> the global
> table?
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for other tunnel types?=
> >>
> >>
> >> After all, the infrastructure you build for mLDP over BIER eq= ually
> >> applies to
> the above two additional scenarios.
> >>
> >> Then, do we make it generic? If yes, where do we do it =F0=9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:41 PM
> >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; gjshep@gmail.com;=
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ok lets converge to the controller solution then=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As of now the controller solution was written that all the PC= Upd is
> >> done via
> the EBBR (BFIR) I will change the solution so that the PCUpd is done <= br> > on IBBR
> (BFER)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. the IBBR will determined that the source of the FEC is ove= r BIER domain.
> >>
> >> 2. IBBR will send PCUpd to the PCE with source-ip, label, > >> label-action, BGP
> PTA opaque etc=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >> 3. PCE will assign a BIER domain label for stitching to this = P2MP
> >> LSP (mLDP)
> >>
> >> 4. PCE will determine the EBBR base on the information provid= ed by
> >> IBBR
> >>
> >> 5. PCE will update the EBBR with NHLFE (stitch LDP to BIER do= main
> >> label)
> information=C2=A0 and IBBR with NHLFE (stitch BIER domain label to LDP= )
> information
> >>
> >> 6. as IBBRs come online for that specific P2MP LSP (i.e. that=
> >> specific source
> and opaque) the PCE will update the EBBR with list of IBBRs so the > EBBR can build its beir header accordingly
> >>
> >> 7 traffic will arrive from ldp domain to BFIR swap labels fro= m LDP
> >> to BIER
> domain label. In addition push bier header forward to BFERs
> >>
> >> Etc=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe SDN will satisfy every body concerns=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:23 PM
> >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com&g= t;;
> gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Hooman,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For 3) below, you still have LDP on the border routers and ac= cess
> >> interfaces,
> and the TLDP is not tied to interfaces, so I still don=E2=80=99t see a= issue with TLDP.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Controller based solution may be ok (I need to read that more=
> >> closely), but
> I can=E2=80=99t support the refreshed inline messages.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:16 PM
> >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; gjshep@gmail.com;=
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My 2 cents
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPL= S protocols.
> >>
> >> 2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not=
> >> against this but
> it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also.
> >>
> >> 3. I still don=E2=80=99t see a issue why a thin layer of gene= ric signaling
> >> with refresh
> timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that =
> why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate)
> >>
> >> 4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the cha= llenge
> >> ( maybe
> this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a > BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER <= br> > domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller
> assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit <= br> > message. Same type of idea for release message=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field =
> >> deployment where
> portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded fir= st.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui)
> >> Zhang
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM
> >> To: gjs= hep@gmail.com; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don= =E2=80=99t
> >> think we=E2=80=99re
> ready to adopt this draft yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER = core:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE pr= otocol
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 This draft-hj
> >>
> >>
> >> #1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core.=
> >>
> >> For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now wi= th a
> >> BIER
> core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER.
> Although draft- ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than > that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need <= br> > to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) = to cover mLDP as the access protocol.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> #3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft s= tate
> messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense.
> >>
> >> One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not wan= t to
> >> run LDP
> session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that =E2=80=93 on the= border
> routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really =
> don=E2=80=99t see the concern with running targeted session over the c= ore.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> >> Shepherd
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM
> >> To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signalin= g
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/again= st adoption of:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp-
> 2Dsignaling_&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3Dey6RLaJG8XZW0q7ua9BYDpy2ZPZ1SzYlDytynfJEyGw&e=3D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ..as a BIER WG document.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This starts a two week counter.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Chairs
> >>
> >> (Shep)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.= org
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63= rsuhr6Scb
> fh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.= org
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63= rsuhr6Scb
> fh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D
> >

--00000000000024bbec0581d2a1ed-- From nobody Thu Feb 14 23:29:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B2712008F for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 23:29:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A3IlBFRx-XtU for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 23:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com (mail-ed1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56D8A12426E for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 23:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 10so7134549eds.7 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 23:29:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RPZGYreLeEvz4u9l0kGFWAQia+pyYNBQcwRt+bE+7O8=; b=LgcGcjEHEXKAlSjLWh6RTV8GFzfHU5RYYVyECmJaYhuMLAs/t9ilPYb1487aHqeQBR f0vPz5eoRNb5b/1eHW4dPLqulvoXmfke+tqAmCjVH+Hd6QRgzalIuDJqH/d0IsrtGJWd kdoQQnShCVMou0EOgqxJZoMXYQnXmPiB86FglDB4yvnY1r1mHVRmgnHaojyWDbnN1RjM y+wyu8zeMcZLzR6sHMJQOBT+cWo2X7B3WXGoaBz67rKiINHtuZU3G+Hp874gve98hm19 SofBt64vKT38S10gcfnmQReFVitQAfyeaOf17kvTuYjbKI++BFpBOUmN3VJWo+cVYq6m Hy4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RPZGYreLeEvz4u9l0kGFWAQia+pyYNBQcwRt+bE+7O8=; b=bk4KVTpN59wxK3oSkw2gjj3F+XD87siTtJUCJ0yK38T5ZM8lUnYePHgCO4ElMq9Pua AFJ9uMYmBtfR1+2iWJo8ln4g3AdJRfXCQeKEZTywoMweCmsvF4czMtDUBz94x8xS1WDO sSG/kXCsrrwQdYcsGN0DpoT/EwCvIWKyxbOREpj1p/ErgXsKhGv4wXiZG5TB1GMjSdJY ZE/7P8Y4m32hnMUFBBdUz4z04Bca0RFME9eGgdmV0BAwip5a96UEGnBJo3DhSlyMaluv yI4g4S6iXj4bb6kwnQxqIIvC9J+ICQf9/+t0y+RKwtrZRE5O7oI2zzLFgazV8GGV6M5B E0HQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuY8AqfHa12w5UqeE8FPixHvSZ4keeSuP5Rfc1PXp6DZELELAVRp UCjipYf+PakifDDcGS/QEii7h+BHC3Ini2kD2ObN1uva X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ibeji34+Tl7n4LOxbSPmcZfgMAdw7mv/hcISCBbUQQDkEuf0fgapfC6NvFnvwxW2Dp4VoybtMdS3EjxC+3q2qQ= X-Received: by 2002:a50:ade7:: with SMTP id b36mr6167252edd.215.1550215762452; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Senthil Dhanaraj Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 13:00:35 +0530 Message-ID: To: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8a38c0581e9bb59" Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 07:29:26 -0000 --000000000000d8a38c0581e9bb59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,, RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=0, Bfrid=, ...)--- | |--- RTC | RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=0, Bfrid=, ...)--- (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.) 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT? 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, how RTC should resolve the conflict ? 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in above cases? I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize the procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think. Thanks, Senthil --000000000000d8a38c0581e9bb59 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

How about any-cast prefix being= used as BIER prefix ? Example,,

RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0|--- RTC
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D,= ...)---

(Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR = or BFER.)

<= /div>
1) Procedures=C2=A0@RTC for c= onstructing BIFT?
2) I= f the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, how RTC shou= ld resolve the conflict ?
3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in ab= ove cases?

=
I think, it is better we bri= ng out different cases and standardize the procedure (say draft-bier-confli= ct-resolution) to be followed to ensure deterministic network behavior. Kin= dly let me know what y'all think.

T= hanks,
Senthil<= /div>

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 00:52:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <74FA1E97-6213-44F4-A17D-25E10FC6F517@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <74FA1E97-6213-44F4-A17D-25E10FC6F517@cisco.com> From: Senthil Dhanaraj Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 14:24:01 +0530 Message-ID: To: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000320c100581eae6a5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:52:52 -0000 --000000000000320c100581eae6a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ice, Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in the bier parameters advertised by different routers with same prefix can be different. 1. Bad configuration 2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bsl supported) 3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for same SD/Bsl are almost guaranteed not to be same. Consider (3) - The receiving BFR should accept both the advertisement and use the corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as next hop. - If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the routers should be considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should be used based on the router chosen as next hop. Consider (2) - Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude routers from BIER SPF based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop based on the incoming BIER packets encap/bsl? Consider (1), - Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different. Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? or Consider one router based on some logic (say higher router-id wins) I was thinking that we must clearly state & standardize the procedure to be followed for such cases instead of leaving it to individual implementations which in-turn may result in non-deterministic network behavior. Pls do let me know your thoughts. Thanks, Senthil On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Senthil, > > I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here. > > If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned to > it, so no conflict with that. > > Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT, > based on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker. > > Thx, > > Ice. > > > On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj < > senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,, > > > > RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > > | > > |--- RTC > > | > > RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > > > > (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.) > > > > 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT? > > 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, how > RTC should resolve the conflict ? > > 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in > above cases? > > > > I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize the > procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure > deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think. > > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --000000000000320c100581eae6a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ice,

Few cases that i can= quickly think of where-in the bier parameters advertised by different rout= ers with same prefix can be different.

1. Bad conf= iguration
2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bs= l supported)
3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for s= ame SD/Bsl are almost guaranteed not to be same.

C= onsider (3)
- The receiving BFR should accept both the advert= isement and use the corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as = next hop.
- If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the rou= ters should be considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should= be used based on the router chosen as next hop.

C= onsider (2)
- Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude rou= ters from BIER SPF based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop base= d on the incoming BIER packets encap/bsl?

Consider= (1),
- Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? or Consi= der one router based on some logic (say higher router-id wins)
I was thinking that we must clearly state & standardize th= e procedure to be followed for such cases instead of leaving it to individu= al implementations which in-turn may result in non-deterministic network be= havior. Pls do let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,<= /div>
Senthil=C2=A0

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (i= wijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
Hi Sen= thil,

I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here.

If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned to i= t, so no conflict with that.

Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT, base= d on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker.

Thx,

Ice.

> On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.c= om> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,,
>
> RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |--- = RTC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
>
> (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.)
>
> 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT?
> 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, how= RTC should resolve the conflict ?
> 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in a= bove cases?
>
> I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize the= procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure de= terministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think.
>
> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

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X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GcniosRF3h_I for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it1-x12a.google.com (mail-it1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 537EC130FD9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id l131so25252224ita.2 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:51:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=dINhFiYSAEKKU5NPloIaWcWOgxmk3GEJYrA4YQNQB6g=; b=igW2mNBmyfjsShV5CTvR9ib3zeTbdWduIeoU63qPzuKCIq0YBQbuEv7WtfvlfM3DRI zU4Uy1uePZHW9+IzfX5iPlslw+qdoBwy7kdIU26k89Z3/ofujlrc713R2laXqhDGz+x4 eFM8b28O9Dp6mTv+0vdA545Tvvu8ev+JhbK3ctFBWK2DSZB2w1iVyrYMSGP17kiBx7wC rdvBVdF2E958JCUMEaVuKAzuERFdD/wRC32P9FvSn573o9EcZnGJm3Ny5Xr5hORcqMje V2UyiZU1s57fbq9Cz0O8Il14618x+zcagu+zf7KmwEPOqvbdH9YItmlLVltyv83VRfcu jrOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dINhFiYSAEKKU5NPloIaWcWOgxmk3GEJYrA4YQNQB6g=; b=k5wyaJZmBhnQB49E+Fv1DpiUuiAs5M4StC99VuT29hi7SydeYtLqUTscS9QQi279l3 u0GKkxChwwSZH1pjZ0CIghxg5S4gNOZqd4AOavCUdz7nN7H9EGM2g5HJu1dCTjR9rQJW YRxsdNKmrKNBLA160mwIfaYN/X4Te8cIGKxjfPxbdXxSR7Q/IMr27pI8N3hocoGRBYdm NBAFht/fQvqg1cmFxgYgp1yfscJErvWkP9efqULBJ/KloxRKVtX2DYxPSxh2NHlozhSu yF0/AEas/VRl5WuG/AyrpUZ2CjBhnKkvkbFXMTB/wLuXNKW7WnvJ7iARG1pv7IpuKKw/ ugrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubmt7724FVcR0fUjgjQp+fbQ2ruBt+x9EL75OCuPrIFEZtAwA/z oPVaZnfhd0V+sqj7mD8nLxHCO22S2qj9OpzdDOg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IatY9lvQETDaF4KDUt34uXuQ0d3BvPSn5KYKv5T9oXMBBnNNygrNLvh/WzAtqh/8ZFUXxjpgLKhfioq1wVjcn4= X-Received: by 2002:a02:1e08:: with SMTP id m8mr5984949jad.120.1550253094110; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:51:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <40FC316A-D5BC-4E78-8144-CB09BDFC3D65@juniper.net> <4EAAACBA-9ED2-43EA-8469-3C421E9BA335@cisco.com> <11717C54-A75F-4322-B95B-9E8D76262A75@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:51:21 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" , "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" , BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fc89910581f26c6f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 17:51:40 -0000 --000000000000fc89910581f26c6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From this discussion it's clear this draft is not ready for adoption. The work itself may be of interest but we don't have support for this solution at this time. Those of you who took interest in this work, and feel this is a problem worth solving are encouraged to work with the authors to better define the solution in this or a new draft. Thanks, Chairs (Shep) On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:40 AM Greg Shepherd wrote: > Great discussion, thanks. Clearly more work, but that's why it's here. > However none of the discussion included votes to/for adoption. :) > > Please reply for/against adoption as a WG item. > > Thanks, > Chairs > (Shep) > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4:43 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) < > hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote: > >> Hi Jeffrey >> >> Thanks, I suggest to have a talk between your self, me and ICE in Prague >> before any thing new is submitted so we are in complete sync. >> >> Assuming if we are going after multiple ways of signaling it might be >> beneficial to have a common dataplane procedure. >> >> I think no Mather what signaling we use (PCE, BGP etc...) the datapath >> portion is similar to what is suggested in the datapath forwarding secti= on >> of the current draft. >> >> Regards >> >> Hooman >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang >> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:05 PM >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; >> IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >> Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; gjshep@gmail.com; >> BIER WG >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> >> Hi Hooman, >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >> > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] >> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 4:08 PM >> > To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; IJsbrand Wijnands >> > (iwijnand) >> > Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; >> > gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG >> > Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> > Just to be clear so the suggestion here is >> > >> > 1. we will go forward with a SDN general solution >> >> An SDN solution makes sense if targeted mLDP or BGP-MVPN does not work >> for some customer. If you develop the SDN approach, would be good to >> generalize it. >> >> >> > 2. RFC 7060 for non SDN mLDP only solution (by the way Jeffrey I >> thought >> > you said we don't need a draft for 7060 and BIER stitching, i.e. >> > pim-signaling will cover this also? ) >> >> Not sure why you mention pim-signaling above. It's not related. >> >> Jeffrey >> >> > >> > Correct? >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Hooman >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang >> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:33 PM >> > To: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >> > Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; >> > Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) ; gjshep@gmail.com; >> > BIER WG >> > Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> > And that mLDP control plane is not hop by hop through the core. It >> > hops over the entire core. >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > > On Jan 26, 2019, at 5:40 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi Hooman, >> > > >> > >> We are gone have fully mesh TLDP between EBBRs and IBBRs, the >> > dataplane on most if not all BIER routers will support MPLS anyway. >> > >> >> > >> If the network already supports and implemented mLDP then what is >> > >> the >> > incentive to go to TLDP, one would keep mLDP P2MP tunnels in parallel >> > with BIER and be done with. >> > > >> > > There is a big difference between running mLDP as the data-plane vs. >> > > tLDP >> > as the control-plane. tLDP is just a TCP session to carry the Label >> > Mappings across. And the EBBR and IBBR=E2=80=99s have already a LDP pr= ocess >> > running in order to border between BIER and mLDP. So a provider is not >> > adding any new control=E2=80=94plane, just re-using what is already th= ere. To >> > me that makes a lot of sense. >> > > >> > > Thx, >> > > >> > > Ice. >> > > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> I am open with BGP signaling that said I am not sure if I >> > >> understand the >> > MVPN comment? As in segmented tunnels? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Regards >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Hooman >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Send from mobile >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 8:24 PM >> > >> To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) >> > >> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa); gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG >> > >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> I would say that this draft could be for controller based option. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> One can still use RFC7060/MVPN/GTM+BIER, with just a little bit >> > clarification on BIER specifics: >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> - For RFC7060 method, specify BIER parameters for base tunnel as an >> > =E2=80=9Cinterface=E2=80=9D. >> > >> >> > >> - For MVPN/GTM method, point out that the procedure in >> > >> draft-ietf-bier- >> > mvpn applies to mLDP case as well, with GTM or MVPN. Need to exam if >> > GTM needs a bit more work. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> I can start a short draft to include the above two options. I think >> > >> the >> > controller option should be in its own draft because a lot of new >> > details need to spelled out, and in theory that could be generalized. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Jeffrey >> > >> >> > >> Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) >> > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Does it mean we making / concluding solution which MUST have >> controller ? >> > >> >> > >> Sent from my iPad >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang >> > >> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> > >> That looks better =E2=80=A6 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> What are the =E2=80=9Clabel, label-action, BGP PTA opaque=E2=80=9D = in #2 for? >> > >> >> > >> In #5, PCE only needs to tell EBBR the label and list of IBBRs, and >> > >> tell IBBRs >> > the label and the EBBR. >> > >> >> > >> Oh, who determines what subdomain to use? Should it be the PCE? >> > Perhaps add subdomain to the above line. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> BTW in concept this is no different from BGP-MVPN method (except >> > >> the >> > label assignment and EBBR determination) =F0=9F=98=8A >> > >> >> > >> =E2=80=A2 You have a session between the controller and every bo= rder >> > >> router >> > (PCEP vs. BGP) >> > >> =E2=80=A2 You have to encode the FEC/label and signal to every E= BBR/IBBR >> > >> (PCEP >> > vs. BGP) >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> It does have the SDN halo ... I=E2=80=99m good with that =F0=9F=98= =8A >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Now will you be tempted to consider the following? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for (s,g)/(*,g) traffic, whether in a V= PN or in >> > >> the global >> > table? >> > >> =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for other tunnel types? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> After all, the infrastructure you build for mLDP over BIER equally >> > >> applies to >> > the above two additional scenarios. >> > >> >> > >> Then, do we make it generic? If yes, where do we do it =F0=9F=98=8A >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Jeffrey >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >> > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:41 PM >> > >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; gjshep@gmail.com; >> > BIER WG >> > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Ok lets converge to the controller solution then=E2=80=A6 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> As of now the controller solution was written that all the PCUpd is >> > >> done via >> > the EBBR (BFIR) I will change the solution so that the PCUpd is done >> > on IBBR >> > (BFER) >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 1. the IBBR will determined that the source of the FEC is over BIER >> domain. >> > >> >> > >> 2. IBBR will send PCUpd to the PCE with source-ip, label, >> > >> label-action, BGP >> > PTA opaque etc=E2=80=A6 >> > >> >> > >> 3. PCE will assign a BIER domain label for stitching to this P2MP >> > >> LSP (mLDP) >> > >> >> > >> 4. PCE will determine the EBBR base on the information provided by >> > >> IBBR >> > >> >> > >> 5. PCE will update the EBBR with NHLFE (stitch LDP to BIER domain >> > >> label) >> > information and IBBR with NHLFE (stitch BIER domain label to LDP) >> > information >> > >> >> > >> 6. as IBBRs come online for that specific P2MP LSP (i.e. that >> > >> specific source >> > and opaque) the PCE will update the EBBR with list of IBBRs so the >> > EBBR can build its beir header accordingly >> > >> >> > >> 7 traffic will arrive from ldp domain to BFIR swap labels from LDP >> > >> to BIER >> > domain label. In addition push bier header forward to BFERs >> > >> >> > >> Etc=E2=80=A6 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Maybe SDN will satisfy every body concerns=E2=80=A6 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Regards >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Hooman >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:23 PM >> > >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; >> > gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG >> > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Hi Hooman, >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> For 3) below, you still have LDP on the border routers and access >> > >> interfaces, >> > and the TLDP is not tied to interfaces, so I still don=E2=80=99t see a= issue >> with TLDP. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Controller based solution may be ok (I need to read that more >> > >> closely), but >> > I can=E2=80=99t support the refreshed inline messages. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Thanks. >> > >> Jeffrey >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >> > [mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com] >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:16 PM >> > >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang ; gjshep@gmail.com; >> > BIER WG >> > >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Thanks Jeffrey >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou! >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> My 2 cents >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPLS >> protocols. >> > >> >> > >> 2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not >> > >> against this but >> > it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also. >> > >> >> > >> 3. I still don=E2=80=99t see a issue why a thin layer of generic si= gnaling >> > >> with refresh >> > timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that >> > why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate) >> > >> >> > >> 4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the challenge >> > >> ( maybe >> > this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a >> > BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER >> > domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller >> > assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit >> > message. Same type of idea for release message=E2=80=A6 >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field >> > >> deployment where >> > portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded >> first. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Regards >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Hooman >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: BIER On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) >> > >> Zhang >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM >> > >> To: gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG >> > >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don=E2=80= =99t >> > >> think we=E2=80=99re >> > ready to adopt this draft yet. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER core: >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> =E2=80=A2 RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions >> > >> =E2=80=A2 BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE protocol >> > >> =E2=80=A2 This draft-hj >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> #1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core. >> > >> >> > >> For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now with a >> > >> BIER >> > core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER. >> > Although draft- ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than >> > that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need >> > to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) >> to cover mLDP as the access protocol. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> #3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft state >> > messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense. >> > >> >> > >> One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not want to >> > >> run LDP >> > session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that =E2=80=93 on the= border >> > routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really >> > don=E2=80=99t see the concern with running targeted session over the c= ore. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Thanks. >> > >> >> > >> Jeffrey >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg >> > >> Shepherd >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM >> > >> To: BIER WG >> > >> Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against >> adoption of: >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp- >> > 2Dsignaling_&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& >> > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- >> > zBEQ&s=3Dey6RLaJG8XZW0q7ua9BYDpy2ZPZ1SzYlDytynfJEyGw&e=3D >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ..as a BIER WG document. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> This starts a two week counter. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Thanks, >> > >> >> > >> Chairs >> > >> >> > >> (Shep) >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> BIER mailing list >> > >> BIER@ietf.org >> > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc= b >> > fh0UjBXeMK- >> > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& >> > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- >> > zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> BIER mailing list >> > >> BIER@ietf.org >> > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc= b >> > fh0UjBXeMK- >> > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE& >> > m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH- >> > zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D >> > > >> > --000000000000fc89910581f26c6f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From this discussion it's clear this draft is not read= y for adoption. The work itself may be of interest but we don't have su= pport for this solution at this time. Those of you who took interest in thi= s work, and feel this is a problem worth solving are encouraged to work wit= h the authors to better define the solution in this or a new draft.
Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)

On Wed, Feb 13, = 2019 at 9:40 AM Greg Shepherd <gjshe= p@gmail.com> wrote:
Great= discussion, thanks. Clearly more work, but that's why it's here. H= owever none of the discussion included votes to/for adoption. :)
Please reply for/against adoption as a WG item.

=
Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)

On Sun, Jan 27, 2= 019 at 4:43 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> = wrote:
Hi Jeffrey

Thanks, I suggest to have a talk between your self, me and ICE in Prague be= fore any thing new is submitted so we are in complete sync.

Assuming if we are going after multiple ways of signaling it might be benef= icial to have a common dataplane procedure.

I think no Mather what signaling we use (PCE, BGP etc...)=C2=A0 the datapat= h portion is similar to what is suggested in the datapath forwarding sectio= n of the current draft.

Regards

Hooman

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:05 PM
To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>; IJsbrand W= ijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>; gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling

Hi Hooman,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 4:08 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; IJsbrand Wijnands
> (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
> Cc: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>;
> gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>
> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
> Just to be clear so the suggestion here is
>
> 1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 we will go forward with a SDN general solution

An SDN solution makes sense if targeted mLDP or BGP-MVPN does not work for = some customer. If you develop the SDN approach, would be good to generalize= it.


> 2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 7060 for non SDN mLDP only solution (by the way Je= ffrey I thought
> you said we don't need a draft for 7060 and BIER stitching, i.e. <= br> > pim-signaling will cover this also? )

Not sure why you mention pim-signaling above. It's not related.

Jeffrey

>
> Correct?
>
> Regards
>
> Hooman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:33 PM
> To: IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com>
> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>;
> Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>; gjshep@gmail.com;
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
>
> And that mLDP control plane is not hop by hop through the core. It > hops over the entire core.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 26, 2019, at 5:40 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)
> <iwijnand@c= isco.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Hooman,
> >
> >> We are gone have fully mesh TLDP between EBBRs and IBBRs, the=
> dataplane on most if not all BIER routers will support MPLS anyway. > >>
> >> If the network already supports and implemented mLDP then wha= t is
> >> the
> incentive to go to TLDP, one would keep mLDP P2MP tunnels in parallel =
> with BIER and be done with.
> >
> > There is a big difference between running mLDP as the data-plane = vs.
> > tLDP
> as the control-plane. tLDP is just a TCP session to carry the Label > Mappings across. And the EBBR and IBBR=E2=80=99s have already a LDP pr= ocess
> running in order to border between BIER and mLDP. So a provider is not=
> adding any new control=E2=80=94plane, just re-using what is already th= ere. To
> me that makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> > Ice.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I am open with BGP signaling that said I am not sure if I > >> understand the
> MVPN comment? As in segmented tunnels?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Send from mobile
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 8:24 PM
> >> To: Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
> >> Cc: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa); gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG
> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I would say that this draft could be for controller based opt= ion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> One can still use RFC7060/MVPN/GTM+BIER, with just a little b= it
> clarification on BIER specifics:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - For RFC7060 method, specify BIER parameters for base tunnel= as an
> =E2=80=9Cinterface=E2=80=9D.
> >>
> >> - For MVPN/GTM method, point out that the procedure in
> >> draft-ietf-bier-
> mvpn applies to mLDP case as well, with GTM or MVPN. Need to exam if <= br> > GTM needs a bit more work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I can start a short draft to include the above two options. I= think
> >> the
> controller option should be in its own draft because a lot of new
> details need to spelled out, and in theory that could be generalized.<= br> > >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
> <mankamis@c= isco.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does it mean we making / concluding solution which MUST have = controller ?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:04 PM, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> >> <z= zhang@juniper.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> That looks better =E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What are the =E2=80=9Clabel, label-action, BGP PTA opaque=E2= =80=9D in #2 for?
> >>
> >> In #5, PCE only needs to tell EBBR the label and list of IBBR= s, and
> >> tell IBBRs
> the label and the EBBR.
> >>
> >> Oh, who determines what subdomain to use? Should it be the PC= E?
> Perhaps add subdomain to the above line.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW in concept this is no different from BGP-MVPN method (exc= ept
> >> the
> label assignment and EBBR determination) =F0=9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 You have a session between the control= ler and every border
> >> router
> (PCEP vs. BGP)
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 You have to encode the FEC/label and s= ignal to every EBBR/IBBR
> >> (PCEP
> vs. BGP)
> >>
> >>
> >> It does have the SDN halo ... I=E2=80=99m good with that =F0= =9F=98=8A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Now will you be tempted to consider the following?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for (s,g)/(*,g) traffic= , whether in a VPN or in
> >> the global
> table?
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Can I use this for other tunnel types?=
> >>
> >>
> >> After all, the infrastructure you build for mLDP over BIER eq= ually
> >> applies to
> the above two additional scenarios.
> >>
> >> Then, do we make it generic? If yes, where do we do it =F0=9F= =98=8A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:41 PM
> >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; gjshep@gmail.com;
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ok lets converge to the controller solution then=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As of now the controller solution was written that all the PC= Upd is
> >> done via
> the EBBR (BFIR) I will change the solution so that the PCUpd is done <= br> > on IBBR
> (BFER)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. the IBBR will determined that the source of the FEC is ove= r BIER domain.
> >>
> >> 2. IBBR will send PCUpd to the PCE with source-ip, label, > >> label-action, BGP
> PTA opaque etc=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >> 3. PCE will assign a BIER domain label for stitching to this = P2MP
> >> LSP (mLDP)
> >>
> >> 4. PCE will determine the EBBR base on the information provid= ed by
> >> IBBR
> >>
> >> 5. PCE will update the EBBR with NHLFE (stitch LDP to BIER do= main
> >> label)
> information=C2=A0 and IBBR with NHLFE (stitch BIER domain label to LDP= )
> information
> >>
> >> 6. as IBBRs come online for that specific P2MP LSP (i.e. that=
> >> specific source
> and opaque) the PCE will update the EBBR with list of IBBRs so the > EBBR can build its beir header accordingly
> >>
> >> 7 traffic will arrive from ldp domain to BFIR swap labels fro= m LDP
> >> to BIER
> domain label. In addition push bier header forward to BFERs
> >>
> >> Etc=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe SDN will satisfy every body concerns=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:23 PM
> >> To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com&g= t;;
> gjshep@gmail.com= ; BIER WG <bier@i= etf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Hooman,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For 3) below, you still have LDP on the border routers and ac= cess
> >> interfaces,
> and the TLDP is not tied to interfaces, so I still don=E2=80=99t see a= issue with TLDP.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Controller based solution may be ok (I need to read that more=
> >> closely), but
> I can=E2=80=99t support the refreshed inline messages.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
> [mailto:= hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 3:16 PM
> >> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>; gjshep@gmail.com;
> BIER WG <bier@ie= tf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My 2 cents
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPL= S protocols.
> >>
> >> 2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not=
> >> against this but
> it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also.
> >>
> >> 3. I still don=E2=80=99t see a issue why a thin layer of gene= ric signaling
> >> with refresh
> timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that =
> why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate)
> >>
> >> 4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the cha= llenge
> >> ( maybe
> this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a > BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER <= br> > domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller
> assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit <= br> > message. Same type of idea for release message=E2=80=A6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field =
> >> deployment where
> portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded fir= st.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hooman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) <= br> > >> Zhang
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM
> >> To: gjs= hep@gmail.com; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-sign= aling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don= =E2=80=99t
> >> think we=E2=80=99re
> ready to adopt this draft yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER = core:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE pr= otocol
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 This draft-hj
> >>
> >>
> >> #1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core.=
> >>
> >> For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now wi= th a
> >> BIER
> core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER.
> Although draft- ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than > that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need <= br> > to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) = to cover mLDP as the access protocol.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> #3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft s= tate
> messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense.
> >>
> >> One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not wan= t to
> >> run LDP
> session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that =E2=80=93 on the= border
> routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really =
> don=E2=80=99t see the concern with running targeted session over the c= ore.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Jeffrey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> >> Shepherd
> >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM
> >> To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signalin= g
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/again= st adoption of:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v= 2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp-
> 2Dsignaling_&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3Dey6RLaJG8XZW0q7ua9BYDpy2ZPZ1SzYlDytynfJEyGw&e=3D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ..as a BIER WG document.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This starts a two week counter.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Chairs
> >>
> >> (Shep)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.= org
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v= 2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63= rsuhr6Scb
> fh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BIER mailing list
> >> BIER@ietf.= org
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v= 2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=3DDwIGaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63= rsuhr6Scb
> fh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3Df7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&am= p;
> m=3DVpx0Ms4_sh-AGey7q6TwIobZ1fXErpA8hmzgCH-
> zBEQ&s=3D2EQnrOIGydT1kpVNchErJua1WTL5-ajVxKhl4STlYDw&e=3D
> >
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ImJhY2tncm91bmQ6d2hpdGUiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6OS4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1p bHk6TWVubG87Y29sb3I6IzIxMjUyOSI+KFNoZXApPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wcmU+DQo8 L2Rpdj4NCjxwPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPHA+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+ DQo8cD48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_CO2PR05MB245531302A641308737607A3D4790CO2PR05MB2455namp_-- From nobody Sun Feb 24 16:44:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietf.org Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF997130E82; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 16:44:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <155105546974.10958.8605614601807745836@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 16:44:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-07.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 00:44:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM) Requirements for Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) Layer Authors : Greg Mirsky Erik Nordmark Carlos Pignataro Nagendra Kumar Sam Aldrin Lianshu Zheng Mach Chen Nobo Akiya Santosh Pallagatti Filename : draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-07.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2019-02-24 Abstract: This document describes a list of functional requirement toward Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM) toolset in Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) layer of a network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Feb 24 21:50:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BCD130DE4 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 21:50:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XFPCOb_XvLWx for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 21:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4FB912F1AC for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 21:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id p27so6503898edc.6 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 21:50:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FqX1FziGlftoQI/L24Qrn85nlolLrGyuPam3CH65bUU=; b=NMyIkpurAbWATxy0qbvPbEn8B2EEsBBmwP1h8thDSgg6qZWTuR0wB+rv5P5uDbUoOq KwrN8Vdqb64SRYYLzIdcRMJcaQWd7aX9loTAY7FBd28FUXYIiX0+/Xn6hFuUIoIPHec5 X1e4xhyfB9iYp0FfSFcS8OQ6GQrC5/EV6OOoGd/dEa0ikAqxW7+gOcGtAFr4E2YovQ4j WVx6fXA1ABk6HS6FJf/KGXPkkjvY/SQQ/pj3qOsv78rd/gVtNgt20GZPBkub4VPrkHDU NLnIui4BJzM4AoSCWhnoMGCsIGu4KRKr5l1A3KdgQShCcjYVY+WuLh1oQ/1wd4YYkxT2 87BA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FqX1FziGlftoQI/L24Qrn85nlolLrGyuPam3CH65bUU=; b=bMPtvsNDSJnDtclfXWUWYjg9fBdYuZgkjBRuTietSCwTVU8q/oMo6QzPC1Nhpd89Mu RmByaFUhv+lYxDG9yJGJCKT7zAZWLwLPxPkjuz9RL1kt9gMnSWXlJNnV+bgCDAoGBPer 8Ds5LqYumh3pEN9x9+Ra65wkFd5cIBFsb4Nv3iD4S3HP/+YwQ4Z7j/ZAa/jhQPFskMIY qav2w40LcbIWfNVy3mxRasmeQnmmCZLPEC95sw9u8zZjfhcOXvauFImcZJSo6jvndlZt Zf6ds6i9uvxaVDwAE/BpiUGKZIJyQjXP2xAV2D7U4kwbTkxA9rWblysRr1K8z3saVlZp Ndkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZ+VvWMGjgowZUUaEaye6k6xKTTu9EUIXIXUw+2kdzHwis3zmqa ySP1nELNTeNIi1TVf8FGpR3jbwdSGEQHr+ARZJ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZc8ozTIBq29e1IX5wNTguPGzfmyP4qi5BayVXvVX4iYLV1wJlhgQO38hbk40aqr53ZBnOnk9GjLI4S804lsoY= X-Received: by 2002:a50:a4b1:: with SMTP id w46mr7797579edb.215.1551073814205; Sun, 24 Feb 2019 21:50:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <74FA1E97-6213-44F4-A17D-25E10FC6F517@cisco.com> <9CD5840B-5754-4D46-9098-BB3A7B1BAA40@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9CD5840B-5754-4D46-9098-BB3A7B1BAA40@cisco.com> From: Senthil Dhanaraj Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 11:21:29 +0530 Message-ID: To: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b75a7f0582b183db" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 05:50:22 -0000 --000000000000b75a7f0582b183db Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ice, Sorry for the delayed response! BIER Prefix MUST be associated with node address of the advertising node (that is, prefix length MUST be 32 for IPv4). If the advertised BIER prefix is not a node address (a.k.a length not equals 32), the BIER prefix will be ignored by the receiving BFRs. So, when you say "to advertise one Prefix as /32 and the other as /31. That way you don=E2=80=99t load-balance over the two", Do you mean that, BIER cannot/need-not support anycast prefix'es ? I think anycast is useful and commonly used (redundancy/loadbalancing). Segment routing does support anycast segments and it might be common that operators choose to share to same (anycast/node) prefix for IGP/SR/BIER. No ? Thanks, Senthil On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:30 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Senthil, > > > Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in the bier parameters > advertised by different routers with same prefix can be different. > > > > 1. Bad configuration > > 2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bsl supported) > > 3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for same SD/Bsl are > almost guaranteed not to be same. > > > > Consider (3) > > - The receiving BFR should accept both the advertisement and use the > corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as next hop. > > - If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the routers should be > considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should be used base= d > on the router chosen as next hop. > > I think one way to solve that (typically used with Multicast), is to > advertise one Prefix as /32 and the other as /31. That way you don=E2=80= =99t > load-balance over the two. > > > Consider (2) > > - Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude routers from BIER SPF > based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop based on the incoming > BIER packets encap/bsl? > > I think the above solves this. > > > > > Consider (1), > > - Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different. > > Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? or Consider one > router based on some logic (say higher router-id wins) > > This is also solved by /32 and /31 advertisement, no? > > > I was thinking that we must clearly state & standardize the procedure t= o > be followed for such cases instead of leaving it to individual > implementations which in-turn may result in non-deterministic network > behavior. Pls do let me know your thoughts. > > I rather solve this problem with default RIB based mechanisms like Mask > Length, distance and metric. I=E2=80=99m not convinced that doing this ba= sed on > BIER specific information useful.. > > Thx, > > Ice. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < > iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Senthil, > > > > I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here. > > > > If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned > to it, so no conflict with that. > > > > Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT, > based on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker. > > > > Thx, > > > > Ice. > > > > > On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj < > senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,, > > > > > > RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > > > | > > > |--- RTC > > > | > > > RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > > > > > > (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.) > > > > > > 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT? > > > 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, ho= w > RTC should resolve the conflict ? > > > 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in > above cases? > > > > > > I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize th= e > procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure > deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Senthil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --000000000000b75a7f0582b183db Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ice,

Sorry for the delaye= d response!

BIER Prefix MUST be associated with no= de address of the advertising node (that is, prefix length MUST be 32 for I= Pv4). If the advertised BIER prefix is not a node address (a.k.a length not= equals 32), the BIER prefix will be ignored by the receiving BFRs.

So, when you say "to advertise one Prefix as /32 and= the other as /31. That way you don=E2=80=99t load-balance over the two&quo= t;, Do you mean that, BIER cannot/need-not support anycast prefix'es ? = I think anycast is useful and commonly used (redundancy/loadbalancing). Seg= ment routing does support anycast segments and it might be common that oper= ators choose to share to same (anycast/node) prefix for IGP/SR/BIER. No ?

Thanks,
Senthil

=
=
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:3= 0 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Senthil,

> Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in the bier parameters adv= ertised by different routers with same prefix can be different.
>
> 1. Bad configuration
> 2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bsl supported) > 3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for same SD/Bsl are alm= ost guaranteed not to be same.
>
> Consider (3)
> - The receiving BFR should accept both the advertisement and use the c= orresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as next hop.
> - If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the routers should be = considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should be used based = on the router chosen as next hop.

I think one way to solve that (typically used with Multicast), is to advert= ise one Prefix as /32 and the other as /31. That way you don=E2=80=99t load= -balance over the two.

> Consider (2)
> - Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude routers from BIER SP= F based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop based on the incoming= BIER packets encap/bsl?

I think the above solves this.

>
> Consider (1),
> - Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? or C= onsider one router based on some logic (say higher router-id wins)

This is also solved by /32 and /31 advertisement, no?

> I was thinking that we must clearly state & standardize the proced= ure to be followed for such cases instead of leaving it to individual imple= mentations which in-turn may result in non-deterministic network behavior. = Pls do let me know your thoughts.

I rather solve this problem with default RIB based mechanisms like Mask Len= gth, distance and metric. I=E2=80=99m not convinced that doing this based o= n BIER specific information useful..

Thx,

Ice.


>
> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
> Hi Senthil,
>
> I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here.
>
> If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned= to it, so no conflict with that.
>
> Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT,= based on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker.
>
> Thx,
>
> Ice.
>
> > On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,, > >
> > RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |= --- RTC
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=
> > RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
> >
> > (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.)
> >
> > 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT?
> > 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different= , how RTC should resolve the conflict ?
> > 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area= in above cases?
> >
> > I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardiz= e the procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensu= re deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think.=
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Senthil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BIER mailing list
> > BIER@ietf.org<= /a>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

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AHQUAuY7bCFIc5Od3iHtHxpgCgHhb4xhr557F38MmiBppCNCfuEmGiT5 F4hWJoGVMtwNPNYoR75acl3xbi9SpI0xf2qz+9Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Iazu5/+g+Gj4X0B/Gu6dMAmb2g2sXvvs97r2Y3ZuqBD1EUAyWp3nZWZDjsY6I0h05KUR8ViA6KcV4SGgNXaHrY= X-Received: by 2002:a50:aece:: with SMTP id f14mr17800708edd.53.1551161418133; Mon, 25 Feb 2019 22:10:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <74FA1E97-6213-44F4-A17D-25E10FC6F517@cisco.com> <9CD5840B-5754-4D46-9098-BB3A7B1BAA40@cisco.com> <97FBA6E8-565F-460F-B15F-A1046E9E29C4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <97FBA6E8-565F-460F-B15F-A1046E9E29C4@cisco.com> From: Senthil Dhanaraj Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 11:41:32 +0530 Message-ID: To: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" Cc: BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000051362c0582c5e9b8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 06:10:24 -0000 --00000000000051362c0582c5e9b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ice, Im not convinced that we should relax the rule to bind bier with only node prefix (32 length). Even though, say we allow bier to be bound with non-node prefix'es, i do not think we shall enforce a rule that "one MUST use anycast bier prefix'es only with different lengths". We must allow sharing any existing anycast node prefix'es in-use in the network (say SR anycast SID) for BIER as well. But sure, lets catch up @IETF104 to discuss further. Thanks, Senthil On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 7:21 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Senthil, > > > BIER Prefix MUST be associated with node address of the advertising nod= e > (that is, prefix length MUST be 32 for IPv4). If the advertised BIER pref= ix > is not a node address (a.k.a length not equals 32), the BIER prefix will = be > ignored by the receiving BFRs. > > Yes that is a good point. I know BIER architecture RFC says that the > BFR-Prefix must be an address, but, strictly speaking, the BFR-id must be > associated with a Prefix. Maybe we need to think about how to relax this > requirement of being an address. > > > So, when you say "to advertise one Prefix as /32 and the other as /31. > That way you don=E2=80=99t load-balance over the two", Do you mean that, = BIER > cannot/need-not support anycast prefix'es ? I think anycast is useful and > commonly used (redundancy/loadbalancing). Segment routing does support > anycast segments and it might be common that operators choose to share to > same (anycast/node) prefix for IGP/SR/BIER. No ? > > I think anycast is a good feature that we need to support in BIER. My > thinking is that we could solve conflicts with different mask lengths as > that gives a natural selection by using IGP selection criteria. Lets talk > about this next IETF maybe? > > Thx, > > Ice. > > > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:30 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < > iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Senthil, > > > >> Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in the bier parameters > advertised by different routers with same prefix can be different. > >> > >> 1. Bad configuration > >> 2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bsl supported) > >> 3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for same SD/Bsl are > almost guaranteed not to be same. > >> > >> Consider (3) > >> - The receiving BFR should accept both the advertisement and use the > corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as next hop. > >> - If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the routers should be > considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should be used base= d > on the router chosen as next hop. > > > > I think one way to solve that (typically used with Multicast), is to > advertise one Prefix as /32 and the other as /31. That way you don=E2=80= =99t > load-balance over the two. > > > >> Consider (2) > >> - Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude routers from BIER SP= F > based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop based on the incoming > BIER packets encap/bsl? > > > > I think the above solves this. > > > >> > >> Consider (1), > >> - Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different. > >> Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? or Consider one > router based on some logic (say higher router-id wins) > > > > This is also solved by /32 and /31 advertisement, no? > > > >> I was thinking that we must clearly state & standardize the procedure > to be followed for such cases instead of leaving it to individual > implementations which in-turn may result in non-deterministic network > behavior. Pls do let me know your thoughts. > > > > I rather solve this problem with default RIB based mechanisms like Mask > Length, distance and metric. I=E2=80=99m not convinced that doing this ba= sed on > BIER specific information useful.. > > > > Thx, > > > > Ice. > > > > > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Senthil > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < > iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > >> Hi Senthil, > >> > >> I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here. > >> > >> If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned > to it, so no conflict with that. > >> > >> Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT, > based on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker. > >> > >> Thx, > >> > >> Ice. > >> > >>> On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj < > senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,, > >>> > >>> RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > >>> | > >>> |--- RTC > >>> | > >>> RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > >>> > >>> (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.) > >>> > >>> 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT? > >>> 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, ho= w > RTC should resolve the conflict ? > >>> 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in > above cases? > >>> > >>> I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize th= e > procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure > deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Senthil > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> BIER mailing list > >>> BIER@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> BIER mailing list > >> BIER@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > --00000000000051362c0582c5e9b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ice,

Im not convinced tha= t we should relax the rule to bind bier with only node prefix (32 length).<= /div>
Even though, say we allow bier to be bound with non-node prefix&#= 39;es, i do not think we shall enforce a rule that "one MUST use anyca= st bier prefix'es only with different lengths". We must allow shar= ing any existing anycast node prefix'es in-use in the network (say SR a= nycast SID) for BIER as well.

But sure, lets catch= up=C2=A0@IETF104 to discuss further.

Thanks,<= /div>
Senthil

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 7:21 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnan= d) <iwijnand@cisco.com> wro= te:
Hi Senthil,<= br>
> BIER Prefix MUST be associated with node address of the advertising no= de (that is, prefix length MUST be 32 for IPv4). If the advertised BIER pre= fix is not a node address (a.k.a length not equals 32), the BIER prefix wil= l be ignored by the receiving BFRs.

Yes that is a good point. I know BIER architecture RFC says that the BFR-Pr= efix must be an address, but, strictly speaking, the BFR-id must be associa= ted with a Prefix. Maybe we need to think about how to relax this requireme= nt of being an address.

> So, when you say "to advertise one Prefix as /32 and the other as= /31. That way you don=E2=80=99t load-balance over the two", Do you me= an that, BIER cannot/need-not support anycast prefix'es ? I think anyca= st is useful and commonly used (redundancy/loadbalancing). Segment routing = does support anycast segments and it might be common that operators choose = to share to same (anycast/node) prefix for IGP/SR/BIER. No ?

I think anycast is a good feature that we need to support in BIER. My think= ing is that we could solve conflicts with different mask lengths as that gi= ves a natural selection by using IGP selection criteria. Lets talk about th= is next IETF maybe?

Thx,

Ice.

>
> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:30 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
> Hi Senthil,
>
>> Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in the bier parameters= advertised by different routers with same prefix can be different.
>>
>> 1. Bad configuration
>> 2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bsl supported= )
>> 3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for same SD/Bsl are= almost guaranteed not to be same.
>>
>> Consider (3)
>> - The receiving BFR should accept both the advertisement and use t= he corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as next hop.
>> - If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the routers should= be considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should be used ba= sed on the router chosen as next hop.
>
> I think one way to solve that (typically used with Multicast), is to a= dvertise one Prefix as /32 and the other as /31. That way you don=E2=80=99t= load-balance over the two.
>
>> Consider (2)
>> - Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude routers from BIE= R SPF based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop based on the inco= ming BIER packets encap/bsl?
>
> I think the above solves this.
>
>>
>> Consider (1),
>> - Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? o= r Consider one router based on some logic (say higher router-id wins)
>
> This is also solved by /32 and /31 advertisement, no?
>
>> I was thinking that we must clearly state & standardize the pr= ocedure to be followed for such cases instead of leaving it to individual i= mplementations which in-turn may result in non-deterministic network behavi= or. Pls do let me know your thoughts.
>
> I rather solve this problem with default RIB based mechanisms like Mas= k Length, distance and metric. I=E2=80=99m not convinced that doing this ba= sed on BIER specific information useful..
>
> Thx,
>
> Ice.
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Senthil
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) <<= a href=3D"mailto:iwijnand@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote:
>> Hi Senthil,
>>
>> I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here.
>>
>> If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assi= gned to it, so no conflict with that.
>>
>> Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the B= IFT, based on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker.
>>
>> Thx,
>>
>> Ice.
>>
>>> On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj.ietf= @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,= ,
>>>
>>> RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|--- RTC
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0|
>>> RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
>>>
>>> (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.)
>>>
>>> 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT?
>>> 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are differ= ent, how RTC should resolve the conflict ?
>>> 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other a= rea in above cases?
>>>
>>> I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standar= dize the procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to e= nsure deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all thi= nk.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Senthil
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.o= rg
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >

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2019 09:28:46 -0600 From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" To: Senthil Dhanaraj , "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" CC: BIER WG Thread-Topic: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution Thread-Index: AQHUxQAyWFEiJjcytEO8bN2LZGljh6Xg34GAgAATEYCAEWQdgA== Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 15:28:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3A898DA1-2189-4151-BE67-62BBE2839366@cisco.com> References: <74FA1E97-6213-44F4-A17D-25E10FC6F517@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.a.0.180210 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.20.8] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3A898DA121894151BE6762BBE2839366ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.22, xch-aln-012.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 15:28:50 -0000 --_000_3A898DA121894151BE6762BBE2839366ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU2VudGhpbCwNCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBiZWxvdzoNCg0KSGkgSWNlLA0KDQpGZXcgY2FzZXMg dGhhdCBpIGNhbiBxdWlja2x5IHRoaW5rIG9mIHdoZXJlLWluIHRoZSBiaWVyIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMg YWR2ZXJ0aXNlZCBieSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgcm91dGVycyB3aXRoIHNhbWUgcHJlZml4IGNhbiBiZSBk aWZmZXJlbnQuDQoNCjEuIEJhZCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uDQoyLiBIYXJkd2FyZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNl J3MgYi93IHRoZSByb3V0ZXJzIChFbmNhcCwgQnNsIHN1cHBvcnRlZCkNCjMuIE1QTFMgbGFiZWxz IGFkdmVydGlzZWQgYnkgZGlmZmVyZW50IHJvdXRlcnMgZm9yIHNhbWUgU0QvQnNsIGFyZSBhbG1v c3QgZ3VhcmFudGVlZCBub3QgdG8gYmUgc2FtZS4NCg0KQ29uc2lkZXIgKDMpDQotIFRoZSByZWNl 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01:57:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <74FA1E97-6213-44F4-A17D-25E10FC6F517@cisco.com> <3A898DA1-2189-4151-BE67-62BBE2839366@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3A898DA1-2189-4151-BE67-62BBE2839366@cisco.com> From: Senthil Dhanaraj Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 15:28:19 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" Cc: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" , BIER WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002483a90582dd3219" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bier] [BIER] Anycact BIER prefix and Conflict resolution X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:57:09 -0000 --0000000000002483a90582dd3219 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Nagendra, Agreed to all the comments from you and my responses inline ! Note: - I would also like to understand Ice's suggestion on using different mask lengths. So lets all catch up at IETF104 for a quick discussion. - I think that the assumed/proposed methods to handle the below discussed cases for anycast prefix is not implicitly clear via RFC8279 or by BIER LSR extension RFCs (at least not to some of the implementer's i spoke to). Hence posted in WG list to check if we need to make this clear by some way (update existing rfc / new draft ..). Thanks, Senthil On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 8:58 PM Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) < naikumar@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Senthil, > > > > Please see below: > > > > Hi Ice, > > > > Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in the bier parameters > advertised by different routers with same prefix can be different. > > > > 1. Bad configuration > > 2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (Encap, Bsl supported) > > 3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers for same SD/Bsl are almost > guaranteed not to be same. > > > > Consider (3) > > - The receiving BFR should accept both the advertisement and use the > corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen as next hop. > > - If both such routers are equi-cost, then both the routers should be > considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labels should be used base= d > on the router chosen as next hop. > > > > Based on the above, I am assuming that 2 BFRs advertises same > BFR-id for same BFR-Prefix with same SI,BSL etc?. This is not different > from how any BFR treats ECMP paths to same BFR-id. When a BFR has ECMP > paths to BFR-Prefix P and if the NH are different, it is expected to have > different egress interface and different BIER-MPLS label. Anycast BIER > Prefix will be treated the same way. > Senthil2// Agreed and same is proposed in my text as well. > > > Consider (2) > > - Accept both the advertisements. Include/Exclude routers from BIER SPF > based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexthop based on the incoming > BIER packets encap/bsl? > > > > Section 6.10.2 of RFC8279 covers the forwarding semantic when > there is BSL mismatch. But I think it is not clear about how to > select/prefer when Anycast is advertised with different BSL. One option i= s > to let a BFR prefer the Anycast with BSL matching the local/supported BSL= . > If nothing matches, follow section 6.10.2. > Senthil2// Agreed. To be more precise, assume BFR1(Prefix P1) advertise BSL 256 and BFR2(Prefix P1) advertises BSL128. - Use the BAR algo (which specifies the constraints like SD/BSL/Encap) to include a prefix/router in SPF. So BFR1/P1/BSL256 will be part of SPF tree and BIFT table specific to BSL256 and BFR2/P1/BSL128 will be part of SPF tree and BIFT table specific to BSL128. This way, based on the incoming BSL of the packet at BFR (or based on the configured imposition BSL at BFIR), corresponding SPT/BIFT will be used and the packet will be forwarded. > > > Consider (1), > > - Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be different. > > Do not consider both the routers & raise alarm ? or Consider one route= r > based on some logic (say higher router-id wins) > > > > I think Section 5 may need some update to clarify that same > BFR-id for same BFR-prefix can be received from different node and how to > behave if we receive some mismatch. > Senthil2// Right. What do you prefer among the above two options? > > > Thanks, > > Nagendra > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) < > iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Senthil, > > I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here. > > If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned to > it, so no conflict with that. > > Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT, > based on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker. > > Thx, > > Ice. > > > On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj < > senthil.dhanaraj.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,, > > > > RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > > | > > |--- RTC > > | > > RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)--- > > > > (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.) > > > > 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT? > > 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, how > RTC should resolve the conflict ? > > 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in > above cases? > > > > I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize the > procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure > deterministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think. > > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > --0000000000002483a90582dd3219 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Nagendra,

Agreed to all t= he comments from you and my responses inline !

Not= e:
- I would also like to understand Ice's suggestion on usin= g different mask lengths. So lets all catch up at IETF104 for a quick discu= ssion.
- I think that the assumed/proposed methods to handle the = below discussed cases for anycast prefix is not implicitly clear via RFC827= 9 or by BIER LSR extension RFCs (at least not to some of the implementer= 9;s i spoke to). Hence posted in WG list to check if we need to make this c= lear by some way (update existing rfc / new draft ..).

=
Thanks,
Senthil

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 8:58 PM Nagendra Kuma= r Nainar (naikumar) <naikumar@cisc= o.com> wrote:

Hi Senthil,

=C2=A0

Please see below:

= =C2=A0

Hi Ice,

=C2=A0

Few cases that i can quickly think of where-in= the bier parameters advertised by different routers with same prefix can b= e different.

=C2=A0

1. Bad configuration

2. Hardware difference's b/w the routers (= Encap, Bsl supported)

3. MPLS labels advertised by different routers= for same SD/Bsl are almost guaranteed not to be same.=

=C2=A0

Consider (3)

- The receiving BFR should accept both the adv= ertisement and use the corresponding MPLS label based on the router chosen = as next hop.

- If both such routers are equi-cost, then bot= h the routers should be considered for ECMP BIFT and the corresponding labe= ls should be used based on the router chosen as next hop.

=C2=A0

<Nagendra> Based on the above, I am assu= ming that 2 BFRs advertises same BFR-id for same BFR-Prefix with same SI,BS= L etc?. This is not different from how any BFR treats ECMP paths to same BF= R-id.=C2=A0 When a BFR has ECMP paths to BFR-Prefix P and if the NH are different, it = is expected to have different egress interface and different BIER-MPLS labe= l. Anycast BIER Prefix will be treated the same way.

=
Senthil2// Agreed and same is proposed in my = text as well.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Consider (2)

- Accept both the advertisements. Include/Excl= ude routers from BIER SPF based on BAR constraints (SD/BSL) or select nexth= op based on the incoming BIER packets encap/bsl?

=C2=A0

<Nagendra> Section 6.10.2 of RFC8279 cov= ers the forwarding semantic when there is BSL mismatch. But I think it is n= ot clear about how to select/prefer when Anycast is advertised with differe= nt BSL. One option is to let a BFR prefer the Anycast with BSL matching the l= ocal/supported BSL. If nothing matches, follow section 6.10.2.

Senthil2// Agreed. To be more preci= se, assume BFR1(Prefix P1) advertise BSL 256 and BFR2(Prefix P1) advertises= BSL128.
- Use the BAR algo (which specifies the constraints like= SD/BSL/Encap) to include a prefix/router in SPF. So BFR1/P1/BSL256 will be= part of SPF tree and BIFT table specific to BSL256 and BFR2/P1/BSL128 will= be part of SPF tree and BIFT table specific to BSL128. This way, based on = the incoming BSL of the packet at BFR (or based on the configured impositio= n BSL at BFIR), corresponding SPT/BIFT will be used and the packet will be = forwarded.

=C2=A0

Consider (1),

- Say bfr-id or sub-domain id could be differe= nt.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Do not consider both the routers = & raise alarm ? or Consider one router based on some logic (say higher = router-id wins)

=C2=A0

<Nagendra> I think Section 5 may need so= me update to clarify that same BFR-id for same BFR-prefix can be received f= rom different node and how to behave if we receive some mismatch.

Senthil2// Right. What do you pr= efer among the above two options?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Nagendra

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM IJsbrand Wijna= nds (iwijnand) <iwijnand@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Senthil,

I=E2=80=99m not convinced there is a conflict here.

If this is Anycast, there is still one prefix with one BFR-id assigned to i= t, so no conflict with that.

Router RTC will install the BEST path it has to prefix P1 in the BIFT, base= d on metric, distance, highest next-hop as tie breaker.

Thx,

Ice.

> On 15 Feb 2019, at 08:30, Senthil Dhanaraj <senthil.dhanaraj= .ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> How about any-cast prefix being used as BIER prefix ? Example,,
>
> RTA ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |--- = RTC
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> RTB ---(Prefix P1, SD=3D0, Bfrid=3D, ...)---
>
> (Note: RTA,RTB could be a BFR or BFER.)
>
> 1) Procedures @RTC for constructing BIFT?
> 2) If the BIER parameters advertised by RTA and RTB are different, how= RTC should resolve the conflict ?
> 3) How an ABR should leak the prefix with BIER TLVs to other area in a= bove cases?
>
> I think, it is better we bring out different cases and standardize the= procedure (say draft-bier-conflict-resolution) to be followed to ensure de= terministic network behavior. Kindly let me know what y'all think.
>
> Thanks,
> Senthil
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@i= etf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

--0000000000002483a90582dd3219-- From nobody Wed Feb 27 05:46:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A07B130EC5 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 05:46:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aaL0DZLppKhS for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 05:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F155E124C04 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 05:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 913F292E0F188E2F9509 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:46:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.32) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:46:10 +0000 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.249]) by DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::89ed:853e:30a9:2a79%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:46:02 +0800 From: benjamin r To: "bier@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPA replace BAR - inconsistency across documents Thread-Index: AdTOotA95OxTkkv3TdShHlaztj+aew== Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:46:01 +0000 Message-ID: <0F70AB4850DED443831FABD19947F6A57EFEEDBA@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.150.197] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_0F70AB4850DED443831FABD19947F6A57EFEEDBADGGEML532MBXchi_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] IPA replace BAR - inconsistency across documents X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:46:16 -0000 --_004_0F70AB4850DED443831FABD19947F6A57EFEEDBADGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0F70AB4850DED443831FABD19947F6A57EFEEDBADGGEML532MBXchi_" --_000_0F70AB4850DED443831FABD19947F6A57EFEEDBADGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-03 states "If BA is not NULL, AG is set to BA." This means, BAR take precedence over IPA. This statement is conflicting with the OSPF/ISIS RFCs, which states IPA rep= laces path calculation defined by BAR value. Excerpts from rfc8444 - Section 2.1. IPA: Single-octet IGP Algorithm used to either modify, enhance, or replace the calculation of underlay paths to reach other BFRs as defined by the BAR value. Values are defined in the "IGP Algorithm Types" registry [IANA-IGP]. Excerpts from rfc8401 - Section 6.1. IPA: IGP Algorithm. Specifies an IGP Algorithm to either modify, enhance, or replace the calculation of underlay paths to reach BFERs as defined by the BAR value. Values are from the IGP Algorithm registry. 1 octet. To avoid confusions, can we update the texts in rfc8444 and rfc8401 to alig= n with draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-03 ? Thanks Benjamin R VRP PDU, Network Business Line Huawei Technologies India Pvt. Ltd. Survey No. 37, Next to EPIP Area, Kundalahalli, Whitefield Bengaluru-560066, Karnataka Tel: + 91-80-49160700 Ext II Mob: 8123906320 Email: benjamin.r@huawei.com [Company_logo] ________________________________ This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWE= I, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. An= y use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, tot= al or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the inten= ded recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please not= ify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! --_000_0F70AB4850DED443831FABD19947F6A57EFEEDBADGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,<= /span>

 

draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-03 states “If BA is not NULL, AG is set to BA.”

This means, BAR take precedence over IPA.

This statement is conflicting with the OSPF/ISIS RFCs, which states IPA re= places path calculation defined by BAR value.

 

Excerpts from rfc8444 - Section 2.1. 

 

   IPA:  Single-octet IGP Algorithm used to either modify, enhance, or

    &n= bsp; replace the calculation of underlay paths to reach other BFRs= as

    &n= bsp; defined by the BAR value.  Values are defined in the "IGP

      Algorithm Types" registry [IANA-IGP= ].

 

Excerpts from rfc8401 - Section 6.1.

 

IPA: IGP Algorithm. Specifi= es an IGP Algorithm to either modify,

enhance, or replace the calculation of underlay paths to reach=

BFERs as defined by the BAR value. Values are from the IGP<= /p>

Algorithm registry. 1 octet.<= /p>

 

To avoid confusions, can we update the texts in rfc8444 and rfc8401 to ali= gn with draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-03 ?

 

 

Thanks<= /p>

Benjamin R

VRP PDU,= Network Business Line=

Huawei Technologies India Pvt. Ltd.

Survey No. 37, Next to EPIP Area, Kundalahalli, Whitefield

Bengaluru-560066, Karnataka

Tel: + 91-80-49= 160700 Ext II Mob: 8123906320 Em= ail: benjami= n.r@huawei.com

3D"Company_logo"  

 

 

 

This e-mail and its attachments contain con= fidential information from HUAWEI, which
is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. An= y use of the
information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, tot= al or partial
disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the inten= ded
recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please not= ify the sender by
phone or email immediately and delete it!

 

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internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bier@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.92.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bier@ietf.org Message-ID: <155132835335.13891.4831906231266172475@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 20:32:33 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-mtud-00.txt X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 04:32:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the IETF. Title : BIER MTU Discovery Authors : Stig Venaas IJsbrand Wijnands Les Ginsberg Mahesh Sivakumar Filename : draft-ietf-bier-mtud-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2019-02-14 Abstract: This document defines an IGP based mechanism for discovering the MTU of a BIER sub-domain. This document defines extensions to OSPF and IS-IS, but other protocols could potentially be extended. MTU discovery is usually done for a given path, while this document defines it for a sub-domain. This allows the computed MTU to be independent of the set of receivers. Also, the MTU is independent of rerouting events within the sub-domain. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-mtud/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-mtud-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bier-mtud-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/