From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Jul 7 23:50:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA25755 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ZjUR-00072W-6L for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:50:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h683o3Td027050 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:50:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ZjUP-000727-2M; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:50:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ZjU3-00071n-V6 for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:49:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA25747 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ZjU1-0005vY-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:49:37 -0400 Received: from cms1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.11] helo=cms1.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ZjU1-0005vV-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:49:37 -0400 Received: from eakim (eakim.etri.re.kr [129.254.171.89]) by cms1.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 3K3S8S1N; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:49:23 +0900 Message-ID: <017f01c34503$f4518ef0$59abfe81@etri.re.kr> Reply-To: "Eunah Kim" From: "Eunah Kim" To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:49:38 +0900 Organization: ETRI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Bridge-mib] what is trunk link? Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSdtIHNvcnJ5IGFib3V0IGFza2luZyB0aGlzIG9uIHRoaXMgbWFpbGluZy1saXN0LA0KYnV0IEkg ZG9uJ3Qga25vdyB3aGVyZSB0byBkby4NCg0KQSBUcnVuayBsaW5rIGluIEFubmV4IEQgaXMgc2Fp ZCB0byBiZQ0KImEgTEFOIHNlZ21lbnQgdXNlZCBmb3IgbXVsdGlwbGV4aW5nIFZMQU5zIGJldHdl ZW4gVkxBTiBCcmlkZ2VzIi4NCkl0IG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgYSB0cnVuayBsaW5rIHNob3VsZCBiZSBi ZXR3ZWVuIFZMQU4gYnJpZGdlcy4NCg0KdGhlbiwgd2hhdCBkbyB5b3UgY2FsbCB0aGUgc2hhcmVk IGxpbmsgd2hpY2gNCmhhcyBvbmx5IG9uZSBWTEFOIEJyaWRnZSBhbmQgbWFueSBWTEFOLWF3YXJl IGVuZCBzdGF0aW9ucyBhdHRhY2hlZCB0byBpdD8NCkkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBhbHNvIGxvb2tzIGxp a2UgYSB0cnVuayBsaW5rLg0KQ29uc2lkZXJpbmcgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBwYXJhZ3JhcGggaW4g RC4xLjEsIEFubmV4IEQsIEkgbWlnaHQgYmUgd3JvbmcuDQoNCiJUaGUgVHJ1bmsgTGluayBpbiBG aWd1cmUgRC0xIGlzIGEgcG9pbnQtdG8tcG9pbnQgTEFOIHNlZ21lbnQ7DQp0aGVyZSBhcmUgdGhl cmVmb3JlIGV4YWN0bHkgdHdvIFZMQU4tYXdhcmUgQnJpZGdlcyBhdHRhY2hlZCB0byB0aGlzIFRy dW5rLg0KQSBUcnVuayBMaW5rIGNvdWxkIGFsc28gYmUgYSBzaGFyZWQgbWVkaXVtIExBTiBzZWdt ZW50IHRoYXQNCmhhcyBtYW55IFZMQU4tYXdhcmUgQnJpZGdlcyBhdGFjaGVkIHRvIGl0Ig0KDQpF dW5haCBLaW0NCg0KLSBzcGFtY29udHJvbCAtDQoNCg== _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Jul 25 15:26:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17325 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19g8CY-0005Sk-VM for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6PJQ2uS020996 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19g8CY-0005SW-2U; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19g8CV-0005Rp-I6 for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:25:59 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17212; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200307251925.PAA17212@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: bridge-mib@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:25:54 -0400 Subject: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bridge MIB Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions for Port Access Control (IEEE 802.1X) MIB Author(s) : K. Norseth Filename : draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Pages : 42 Date : 2003-7-25 This document defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB) for use with network management protocols in TCP/IP-based internets. In particular, it defines objects for managing the operation of Port Access Control, based on the specification contained in Clause 8 and Clause 9 of the IEEE 802.1X standard. This clause includes a MIB module that is SNMPv2 SMI compliant. This standard defines a mechanism for Port-based network access control that makes use of the physical access characteristics of IEEE 802 LAN infrastructures in order to provide a means of authenticating and authorizing devices attached to a LAN port that has point-to-point connection characteristics, and of preventing access to that port in cases in which the authentication and A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-7-25144356.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-7-25144356.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Jul 28 11:07:02 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04626 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19h9a9-0000kJ-IG for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:06:37 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6SF6bTr002865 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:06:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19h9ZZ-0000iE-9d; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:06:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19h9Yv-0000hd-24 for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:05:21 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04185; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200307281505.LAA04185@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: bridge-mib@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:05:15 -0400 Subject: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Bridge MIB Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions of Managed Objects for Bridges Author(s) : K. Norseth, E. Bell Filename : draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2003-7-28 This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB) for use with network management protocols in TCP/IP based internets. In particular it defines objects for managing MAC bridges based on the IEEE 802.1D-1998 standard between Local Area Network (LAN) segments. Provisions are made for support of transparent bridging. Provisions are also made so that these objects apply to bridges connected by subnetworks other than LAN segments. The MIB presented in this memo is a direct translation of the BRIDGE MIB defined in [RFC1493], to the SMIv2 syntax required for current IETF MIB standards. This memo obsoletes RFC 1493. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-7-28111020.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-bridge-bridgemib-smiv2-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-7-28111020.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 02:03:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04909 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hNZj-0004Yw-1E for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:03:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6T636SV017539 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:03:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hNZc-0004Yd-Nf; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:03:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hNZS-0004Xf-BC for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:02:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04079 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hNZO-0002s9-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:02:46 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hNZJ-0002s6-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:02:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6T62Sh18641; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:02:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt In-Reply-To: <200307251925.PAA17212@ietf.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the > Bridge MIB Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Definitions for Port Access Control (IEEE > 802.1X) MIB > Author(s) : K. Norseth > Filename : draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt > Pages : 42 > Date : 2003-7-25 > [ ... ] > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Greetings, I have three major comments on this draft and few minor ones. MAJOR COMMENT: I see that in going from the -01 to the -02 draft the following changes were made to the MODULE-IDENTITY invocation in the IEEE8021-PAE-MIB: *** 22,34 **** --- 22,52 ---- ieee8021paeMIB MODULE-IDENTITY LAST-UPDATED "200101160000Z" ORGANIZATION "IEEE 802.1 Working Group" CONTACT-INFO "http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/1/index.html" + + ORGANIZATION "IETF Bridge MIB Working Group" + CONTACT-INFO + "Email: Bridge-mib@ietf.org" + + K.C. Norseth + L-3 Communications + Tel: +1 801-594-2809 + Email: kenyon.c.norseth@L-3com.com + Postal: 640 N. 2200 West. + Salt Lake City, Utah 84116-0850 + + Send comments to + DESCRIPTION "The Port Access Entity module for managing IEEE 802.1X." + + "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). This version of + this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for + full legal notices." -- ::= { iso(1) std(0) iso8802(8802) ieee802dot1(1) -- ieee802dot1mibs(1) 1 } ::= { iso std(0) iso8802(8802) ieee802dot1(1) ieee802dot1mibs(1) 1 } I believe that these changes (i.e., the added lines marked above with '+') should be backed out. For one thing, the MIB module won't compile when they are present. For another, this MIB module is NOT an IETF MIB module. It is an IEEE MIB module, as the draft explicitly says. Therefore, the IEEE 802.1 WG should remain listed as the ORGANIZATION and its web site should be listed in the CONTACT-INFO. Also, since the IEEE owns the copyright, not the IETF, it seems wrong to insert the standard ISOC MIB copyright here. MAJOR COMMENT: since this draft is republishing an IEEE standard, it the Full Copyright Statement language needs to reflect this fact. The IETF does not own the copyright and does not have change control, but the Full Copyright Statement (which is a verbatim copy of the one in Section 10 of RFC 2026) says otherwise. This needs to be fixed. Note that the version of the Full Copyright Statement that is in RFC 2026 is intended for standards-track documents, not for informational republication of standards from other SDOs. MAJOR COMMENT: the I-D boilerplate should probably have the "except the right to make derivative works" language, since the MIB module is an IEEE standard and change control is not being ceded to the IETF. MINOR COMMENT: in the Abstract, s/SNMPv2 SMI/SMIv2/ MINOR COMMENT: since this version of the MIB module has some updates from the IEEE original in order to correct some MIB compilation errors, it might be a good idea to add a REVISION/DESCRIPTION pair and also to change the LAST-UPDATED clause to match the new REVISION clause. The verbiage at the beginning of Section 4 claims that this stuff is present, but it is not. It might also be a good idea to suggest to the IEEE to post the corrected MIB module on their web site (that would also have the salutary effect of making the ASN.1 comment at the front of the MIB module with the URL less misleading). MINOR COMMENT: the ASN.1 comment that shows the original (incorrect) form for the OID assigned to ieee8021paeMIB is not helpful and should be removed (in general, broken stuff should be removed, not commented out, and the changes should be documented in a REVISION/DESCRIPTION pair). MINOR COMMENT: in the DESCRIPTION clause of dot1xAuthBackendNonNakResponsesFromSupplicant s/Authenticators/Authenticator's/ (the apostrophe was apparently deleted when the non-ascii quotes in the original were converted to ascii). MINOR COMMENT: the change log section is broken. It records the -00 to -01 changes but says otherwise. Also, there should be a note to the RFC Editor indicating that the section is to be removed prior to publication as an RFC. Regards, Mike Heard _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 05:45:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA17014 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hR2a-0004Uo-PG for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:45:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6T9j8fe017278 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:45:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hR2T-0004US-DE; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:45:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hR25-0004Sj-LJ for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:44:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA16991 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hR22-0003o1-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:44:34 -0400 Received: from ip-161-71-171-238.corp-eur.3com.com ([161.71.171.238] helo=columba.www.eur.3com.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hR21-0003ny-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:44:33 -0400 Received: from toucana.eur.3com.com (toucana.EUR.3Com.COM [140.204.220.50]) by columba.www.eur.3com.com with ESMTP id h6T9jtkC019988; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:45:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from notesmta.eur.3com.com (eurmta1.EUR.3Com.COM [140.204.220.206]) by toucana.eur.3com.com with SMTP id h6T9kY225534; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:46:35 +0100 (BST) Received: by notesmta.eur.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 80256D72.00358B69 ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:44:50 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM From: "Les Bell" To: "C. M. Heard" cc: bridge-mib@ietf.org, stds-802-1@ieee.org Message-ID: <80256D72.0035898D.00@notesmta.eur.3com.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:44:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I see your point about the changes to the MODULE-IDENTITY. I agree that we should back out these changes. Are there any guidelines on the Full Copyright statement that should be applied to this document, which re-publishes an external document. I should probably ask the IEEE 802.1 WG chair for suitable text. I have re-checked the id-guidelines at www.ietf.org/ID-nits.html and I agree that the boilerplate should read: This document is an Internet-Draft and is subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026 except that the right to produce derivative works is not granted. I believe the change log section actually is correct in what it says, it summarises the changes from draft -00 to draft -02. Perhaps what it should have done is separately list the changes from -00 to -01 and then from -01 to -02. I agree that it should have a note to the RFC Editor to remove this section before publication. I agree with all of your other comments. Les... "C. M. Heard" @ietf.org on 29/07/2003 07:02:28 Sent by: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the > Bridge MIB Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Definitions for Port Access Control (IEEE > 802.1X) MIB > Author(s) : K. Norseth > Filename : draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt > Pages : 42 > Date : 2003-7-25 > [ ... ] > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Greetings, I have three major comments on this draft and few minor ones. MAJOR COMMENT: I see that in going from the -01 to the -02 draft the following changes were made to the MODULE-IDENTITY invocation in the IEEE8021-PAE-MIB: *** 22,34 **** --- 22,52 ---- ieee8021paeMIB MODULE-IDENTITY LAST-UPDATED "200101160000Z" ORGANIZATION "IEEE 802.1 Working Group" CONTACT-INFO "http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/1/index.html" + + ORGANIZATION "IETF Bridge MIB Working Group" + CONTACT-INFO + "Email: Bridge-mib@ietf.org" + + K.C. Norseth + L-3 Communications + Tel: +1 801-594-2809 + Email: kenyon.c.norseth@L-3com.com + Postal: 640 N. 2200 West. + Salt Lake City, Utah 84116-0850 + + Send comments to + DESCRIPTION "The Port Access Entity module for managing IEEE 802.1X." + + "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). This version of + this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for + full legal notices." -- ::= { iso(1) std(0) iso8802(8802) ieee802dot1(1) -- ieee802dot1mibs(1) 1 } ::= { iso std(0) iso8802(8802) ieee802dot1(1) ieee802dot1mibs(1) 1 } I believe that these changes (i.e., the added lines marked above with '+') should be backed out. For one thing, the MIB module won't compile when they are present. For another, this MIB module is NOT an IETF MIB module. It is an IEEE MIB module, as the draft explicitly says. Therefore, the IEEE 802.1 WG should remain listed as the ORGANIZATION and its web site should be listed in the CONTACT-INFO. Also, since the IEEE owns the copyright, not the IETF, it seems wrong to insert the standard ISOC MIB copyright here. MAJOR COMMENT: since this draft is republishing an IEEE standard, it the Full Copyright Statement language needs to reflect this fact. The IETF does not own the copyright and does not have change control, but the Full Copyright Statement (which is a verbatim copy of the one in Section 10 of RFC 2026) says otherwise. This needs to be fixed. Note that the version of the Full Copyright Statement that is in RFC 2026 is intended for standards-track documents, not for informational republication of standards from other SDOs. MAJOR COMMENT: the I-D boilerplate should probably have the "except the right to make derivative works" language, since the MIB module is an IEEE standard and change control is not being ceded to the IETF. MINOR COMMENT: in the Abstract, s/SNMPv2 SMI/SMIv2/ MINOR COMMENT: since this version of the MIB module has some updates from the IEEE original in order to correct some MIB compilation errors, it might be a good idea to add a REVISION/DESCRIPTION pair and also to change the LAST-UPDATED clause to match the new REVISION clause. The verbiage at the beginning of Section 4 claims that this stuff is present, but it is not. It might also be a good idea to suggest to the IEEE to post the corrected MIB module on their web site (that would also have the salutary effect of making the ASN.1 comment at the front of the MIB module with the URL less misleading). MINOR COMMENT: the ASN.1 comment that shows the original (incorrect) form for the OID assigned to ieee8021paeMIB is not helpful and should be removed (in general, broken stuff should be removed, not commented out, and the changes should be documented in a REVISION/DESCRIPTION pair). MINOR COMMENT: in the DESCRIPTION clause of dot1xAuthBackendNonNakResponsesFromSupplicant s/Authenticators/Authenticator's/ (the apostrophe was apparently deleted when the non-ascii quotes in the original were converted to ascii). MINOR COMMENT: the change log section is broken. It records the -00 to -01 changes but says otherwise. Also, there should be a note to the RFC Editor indicating that the section is to be removed prior to publication as an RFC. Regards, Mike Heard _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 06:14:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA17528 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hRUc-0005WL-M4 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:14:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6TAE6Dx021211 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:14:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hRUX-0005Vg-Hb; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hRTf-0005V3-G8 for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:13:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA17509 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hRTb-0003yB-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:13:03 -0400 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.222.161] helo=ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hRTa-0003xZ-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:13:02 -0400 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h6TACTh02872 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:12:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:12:28 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550213BC8F@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: "C. M. Heard" , bridge-mib@ietf.org Cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:12:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , If we indeed have an Informational RFC that basically republishes an IEEE doc, then we do not use the normal copyright. For an ID, the guidelines say: Mandatory Statements ==================== All Internet-Drafts must begin with ONE of the following three statements: This document is an Internet-Draft and is subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026. This document is an Internet-Draft and is subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026 except that the right to produce derivative works is not granted. This document is an Internet-Draft and is NOT offered in accordance with Section 10 of RFC2026, and the author does not provide the IETF with any rights other than to publish as an Internet-Draft So it seems that the 2nd statement is probably the best statement to be used in the I-D. Or, you might want to check section 5.2 of draft-ietf-ipr-submission-rights-06.txt, which is onder IPR WG Last Call now and probably will become the new practice soon. Also, in the abstract, I would not talk about "this standard" If anything, then maybe "this IEEE 802.1x standard" or some such. But even that is questionable.... better just say "this IEEE 802.1x specification" and let the IEEE keep their way of how they decide something is a std or not. Also, abstract talks about "this draft". Better use "this memo" or "this document", so that it is still valid when it becomes an RFC. I think we still want to have a copyright statement in the DESCRIPTION of the MODULE-IDENTITY. Since it points back to the RFC, it will point to proper text, no? Thanks, Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: C. M. Heard [mailto:heard@pobox.com] > Sent: dinsdag 29 juli 2003 8:02 > To: bridge-mib@ietf.org > Cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org > Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt > > > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > > Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the > > Bridge MIB Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Definitions for Port Access Control (IEEE > > 802.1X) MIB > > Author(s) : K. Norseth > > Filename : draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt > > Pages : 42 > > Date : 2003-7-25 > > > [ ... ] > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt > > Greetings, > > I have three major comments on this draft and few minor ones. > > MAJOR COMMENT: I see that in going from the -01 to the -02 draft the > following changes were made to the MODULE-IDENTITY invocation in the > IEEE8021-PAE-MIB: > > *** 22,34 **** > --- 22,52 ---- > ieee8021paeMIB MODULE-IDENTITY > LAST-UPDATED "200101160000Z" > ORGANIZATION "IEEE 802.1 Working Group" > CONTACT-INFO > "http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/1/index.html" > + > + ORGANIZATION "IETF Bridge MIB Working Group" > + CONTACT-INFO > + "Email: Bridge-mib@ietf.org" > + > + K.C. Norseth > + L-3 Communications > + Tel: +1 801-594-2809 > + Email: kenyon.c.norseth@L-3com.com > + Postal: 640 N. 2200 West. > + Salt Lake City, Utah 84116-0850 > + > + Send comments to > + > DESCRIPTION > "The Port Access Entity module for managing IEEE > 802.1X." > + > + "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). This version of > + this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for > + full legal notices." > > -- ::= { iso(1) std(0) iso8802(8802) ieee802dot1(1) > -- ieee802dot1mibs(1) 1 } > ::= { iso std(0) iso8802(8802) ieee802dot1(1) > ieee802dot1mibs(1) 1 } > > I believe that these changes (i.e., the added lines marked above > with '+') should be backed out. For one thing, the MIB module won't > compile when they are present. For another, this MIB module is NOT > an IETF MIB module. It is an IEEE MIB module, as the draft > explicitly says. Therefore, the IEEE 802.1 WG should remain listed > as the ORGANIZATION and its web site should be listed in the > CONTACT-INFO. Also, since the IEEE owns the copyright, not the > IETF, it seems wrong to insert the standard ISOC MIB copyright here. > > MAJOR COMMENT: since this draft is republishing an IEEE standard, > it the Full Copyright Statement language needs to reflect this fact. > The IETF does not own the copyright and does not have change > control, but the Full Copyright Statement (which is a verbatim copy > of the one in Section 10 of RFC 2026) says otherwise. This needs to > be fixed. Note that the version of the Full Copyright Statement > that is in RFC 2026 is intended for standards-track documents, not > for informational republication of standards from other SDOs. > > MAJOR COMMENT: the I-D boilerplate should probably have the "except > the right to make derivative works" language, since the MIB module > is an IEEE standard and change control is not being ceded to the > IETF. > > MINOR COMMENT: in the Abstract, s/SNMPv2 SMI/SMIv2/ > > MINOR COMMENT: since this version of the MIB module has some > updates from the IEEE original in order to correct some MIB > compilation errors, it might be a good idea to add a > REVISION/DESCRIPTION pair and also to change the LAST-UPDATED clause > to match the new REVISION clause. The verbiage at the beginning of > Section 4 claims that this stuff is present, but it is not. It > might also be a good idea to suggest to the IEEE to post the > corrected MIB module on their web site (that would also have the > salutary effect of making the ASN.1 comment at the front of the MIB > module with the URL less misleading). > > MINOR COMMENT: the ASN.1 comment that shows the original > (incorrect) form for the OID assigned to ieee8021paeMIB is not > helpful and should be removed (in general, broken stuff should be > removed, not commented out, and the changes should be documented in > a REVISION/DESCRIPTION pair). > > MINOR COMMENT: in the DESCRIPTION clause of > dot1xAuthBackendNonNakResponsesFromSupplicant > s/Authenticators/Authenticator's/ (the apostrophe was apparently > deleted when the non-ascii quotes in the original were converted to > ascii). > > MINOR COMMENT: the change log section is broken. It records the > -00 to -01 changes but says otherwise. Also, there should be a > note to the RFC Editor indicating that the section is to be > removed prior to publication as an RFC. > > Regards, > > Mike Heard > > > _______________________________________________ > Bridge-mib mailing list > Bridge-mib@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib > _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 07:44:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19360 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hSti-0007qs-PI for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:44:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6TBi6VE030171 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:44:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hStd-0007qV-Fl; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:44:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hStJ-0007qI-Ex for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:43:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19346 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hStI-0004cU-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:43:40 -0400 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.222.161] helo=ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hStI-0004cN-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:43:40 -0400 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h6TBh6h29796 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:43:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:43:05 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550213BCC6@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: "Bridge-Mib (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:43:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Since Scott has been diving into this topic so much in his work for IPR WG, I decided to ask him. Here is his answer. Thanks, Bert -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bradner [mailto:sob@harvard.edu] Sent: dinsdag 29 juli 2003 13:07 To: bwijnen@lucent.com Subject: Re: MIB copyright statement I think you are right (use the same text) Scott --- From bwijnen@lucent.com Tue Jul 29 06:12:38 2003 From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: "Scott Bradner (E-mail)" Subject: MIB copyright statement Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:12:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Scott, if we republish an IEEE MIB module as an Informational RFC, would the text in the MIB-MODULE itself also need to be changed from what we normally put there? I would think we can use same standard text, since it points back to the RFC, which explains the copyright in more detail. Thanks, Bert _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 08:54:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21519 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hTzR-0001nB-Js for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:54:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6TCs5ra006883 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:54:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hTzM-0001mU-Gu; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:54:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hTyc-0001m4-L2 for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21496 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hTyb-0005CJ-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:13 -0400 Received: from ip-161-71-171-238.corp-eur.3com.com ([161.71.171.238] helo=columba.www.eur.3com.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hTya-0005CG-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:12 -0400 Received: from toucana.eur.3com.com (toucana.EUR.3Com.COM [140.204.220.50]) by columba.www.eur.3com.com with ESMTP id h6TCsdkC001474; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:54:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from notesmta.eur.3com.com (eurmta1.EUR.3Com.COM [140.204.220.206]) by toucana.eur.3com.com with SMTP id h6TCtG211042; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:55:16 +0100 (BST) Received: by notesmta.eur.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 80256D72.0046D41E ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:53:38 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM From: "Les Bell" To: "Bridge-Mib (E-mail)" cc: sob@harvard.edu Message-ID: <80256D72.0046D182.00@notesmta.eur.3com.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:52:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , So you are saying the MODULE-IDENTITY should include the following copyright statement: "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). This version of this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for full legal notices." But Mike's point was that the IEEE 802.1 is not assigning copyright to anyone else, so "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003)." is misleading. Would it not be more correct to say: "Copyright (C) The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. (2003). This version of this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for full legal notices." or just: "This version of this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for full legal notices." Les... "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" @ietf.org on 29/07/2003 12:43:00 Sent by: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org To: "Bridge-Mib cc: Subject: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement Since Scott has been diving into this topic so much in his work for IPR WG, I decided to ask him. Here is his answer. Thanks, Bert -----Original Message----- From: Scott Bradner [mailto:sob@harvard.edu] Sent: dinsdag 29 juli 2003 13:07 To: bwijnen@lucent.com Subject: Re: MIB copyright statement I think you are right (use the same text) Scott --- From bwijnen@lucent.com Tue Jul 29 06:12:38 2003 From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: "Scott Bradner (E-mail)" Subject: MIB copyright statement Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:12:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Scott, if we republish an IEEE MIB module as an Informational RFC, would the text in the MIB-MODULE itself also need to be changed from what we normally put there? I would think we can use same standard text, since it points back to the RFC, which explains the copyright in more detail. Thanks, Bert _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 11:12:10 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25962 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hW8g-0006Lm-Bb for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:11:46 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6TFBkVg024400 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:11:46 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hW7w-0006JN-Tk; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:11:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hW7c-0006IO-IA for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:10:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25850 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hW7Z-0006OK-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:10:37 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hW7Y-0006O8-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:10:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6TF9vH09854; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:09:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550213BC8F@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > I think we still want to have a copyright statement in the > DESCRIPTION of the MODULE-IDENTITY. Since it points back to the > RFC, it will point to proper text, no? I would think that is the IEEE's call, since it is their MIB module, after all. The original version of the MIB module at http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/MIBs/802-1x-2001-mib.txt which we are republishing (with only very minor changes so that it will compile) does not have a copyright statement. I'm proposing that we keep the MIB module in the informational RFC as close to the one on the IEEE web site as possible. (Ideally the version in the RFC and the version on the web site would be identical, which is why I've suggested that we urge the IEEE to incorporate the corrections we've made into their on-line version.) Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jul 29 13:32:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01796 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hYKU-0003xu-F1 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:32:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6THW6dJ015242 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:32:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hYKO-0003xA-Ua; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:32:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hYJo-0003wc-Tc for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:31:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01761 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:31:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hYJm-0000G0-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:31:22 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hYJm-0000Fx-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:31:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6THVLx30915; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:31:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:31:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org, sob@harvard.edu Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement In-Reply-To: <80256D72.0046D182.00@notesmta.eur.3com.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Les Bell wrote: > So you [meaning Bert Wijnen and Scott Bradner] are saying the > MODULE-IDENTITY should include the following copyright statement: > > "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003). This version of > this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for > full legal notices." > > But Mike's point was that the IEEE 802.1 is not assigning copyright > to anyone else, so "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003)." is > misleading. Exactly. > Would it not be more correct to say: > > "Copyright (C) The Institute of Electrical and Electronics > Engineers, Inc. (2003). This version of this MIB module is > part of RFC xxxx; see the RFC itself for full legal notices." > > or just: > > "This version of this MIB module is part of RFC xxxx; > see the RFC itself for full legal notices." The latter would probably be better, but as I said before, this is the IEEE's MIB module -- we are just republishing it in an informational RFC to make it more readily accessible -- and so I think this is really the IEEE's call. In an earlier message, Les asked: > Are there any guidelines on the Full Copyright statement that > should be applied to this document, which re-publishes an > external document. I should probably ask the IEEE 802.1 WG chair > for suitable text. I don't know of any formal guidelines in a BCP document or such, but there have been cases in the past where standards developed by other bodies have been republished in informational RFCs. A recent example is RFC 3394, Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) Key Wrap Algorithm. Here is its Full Copyright Statement: Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2002). All Rights Reserved. This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to others provided that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are included on all such copies. However, this document itself may not be modified in any way, such as by removing the copyright notice or references to the Internet Society or other Internet organizations, except as required to translate it into languages other than English. The limited permissions granted above are perpetual and will not be revoked by the Internet Society or its successors or assigns. This document and the information contained herein is provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Note the absence of permissions to make derivative works. The same (or very similar) language appears in RFCs 2985 and 2986. In the present case it might be appropriate to have a dual IEEE/ISOC copyright (for the whole document, not the MIB module -- I think that the MIB module copyright probably belongs to the IEEE alone). In any case, please be sure to take note of the following admonition in draft-rfc-editor-rfc2223bis-06.txt: A specific request from the IAB is required before the RFC Editor can include a dual copyright, or for any other variation of the standard ISOC copyright notice. I think that applies to the RFC3394-type notice as well. Regards, Mike Heard _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 30 03:08:07 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22047 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hl3m-0005BO-B6 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:07:42 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6U77gKr019916 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:07:42 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hl37-000506-G2; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:07:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hU1J-0001pJ-21 for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:56:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21547 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hU1H-0005DT-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:55:59 -0400 Received: from newdev.eecs.harvard.edu ([140.247.60.212] helo=newdev.harvard.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hU1H-0005DQ-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:55:59 -0400 Received: from newdev.harvard.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by newdev.harvard.edu (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h6TCti9n011935; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from sob@localhost) by newdev.harvard.edu (8.12.9/8.12.2/Submit) id h6TCtieL011934; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:55:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Bradner Message-Id: <200307291255.h6TCtieL011934@newdev.harvard.edu> To: bridge-mib@ietf.org, Les_Bell@eur.3com.com Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement Cc: sob@harvard.edu In-Reply-To: <80256D72.0046D182.00@notesmta.eur.3com.com> Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > But Mike's point was that the IEEE 802.1 is not assigning copyright > to anyone else, so "Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2003)." is > misleading. if the IETF is republishing the material it must have a non-exclusive grant of copyright to do so so the ISOC copyright is correct - if the IEEE is not granting that non-exclusive right then the RFC can not be published Scott _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 30 04:20:10 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA23634 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hmBU-0008QT-CW for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:19:44 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6U8Jip7032379 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:19:44 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hmAo-0008OS-2G; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:19:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hmAB-0008O3-Ms for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:18:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA23588 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hmA7-0005xC-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:18:19 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hmA6-0005x9-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:18:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6U8IJl17654; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:18:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:18:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement In-Reply-To: <200307291255.h6TCtieL011934@newdev.harvard.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Scott Bradner wrote: > > But Mike's point was that the IEEE 802.1 is not assigning > > copyright to anyone else, so "Copyright (C) The Internet Society > > (2003)." is misleading. > > if the IETF is republishing the material it must have a > non-exclusive grant of copyright to do so so the ISOC copyright > is correct - if the IEEE is not granting that non-exclusive > right then the RFC can not be published Well, it's not obvious that a grant of copyright, as opposed to permission to use the material, is required for republication. But even if ISOC does get a non-exclusive grant of copyright, the point still stands that the standard abbreviated MIB copyright notice would be misleading since it mentions ISOC only, and not the IEEE, which in this case is the principal copyright holder. //cmh _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 30 13:24:05 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09280 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hufq-0002ho-8f for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:23:39 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6UHNcLG010396 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:23:38 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hufE-0002dm-Vo; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:23:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hueG-0002cg-Ow for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:22:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09215 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hueE-0001yi-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:21:58 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hueD-0001yf-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:21:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6UHLqn04493; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:21:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:21:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, C. M. Heard wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Scott Bradner wrote: > > if the IETF is republishing the material it must have a > > non-exclusive grant of copyright to do so so the ISOC copyright > > is correct - if the IEEE is not granting that non-exclusive > > right then the RFC can not be published > > Well, it's not obvious that a grant of copyright, as opposed to > permission to use the material, is required for republication. > > But even if ISOC does get a non-exclusive grant of copyright, the > point still stands that the standard abbreviated MIB copyright > notice would be misleading since it mentions ISOC only, and not > the IEEE, which in this case is the principal copyright holder. Another point to be noted is that extraction of a MIB module from an RFC (or an Internet-Draft) amounts to creation of a derivative work. The IEEE can grant permission for the IETF to republish the MIB module in an informational RFC without necessarily granting permission for the MIB module to be extracted; that permission needs to be granted separately. Here is an extract from Section 5.2 (entitled "Derivative Works Limitation") of draft-ietf-ipr-submission-rights-06.txt: If the Contributor desires to eliminate the IETF's right to make modifications and derivative works of an Contribution (other than translations), one of the two the following notices may be included in the Status of memo section of an Internet-Draft and included in a published RFC: a. "This document may not be modified, and derivative works of it may not be created, except to publish it as a RFC and to translate it into languages other than English." b. "This document may not be modified, and derivative works of it may not be created." In the cases of MIB or PIB modules and in other cases where the Contribution includes material that is meant to be extracted in order to be used, the following should be appended to statement 5.2 (a) or 5.2 (b): "other than to extract section XX as-is for separate use." Notice 5.2(a) is used if the Contributor intends for the Contribution to be published as a RFC. Notice 5.2(b) is used along with the Publication Limitation in Section 5.3 when the Contributor does not intend for the Contribution to be published as a RFC. Again, it seems to me that the IEEE (as owner of the rights to the MIB module) should be able to determine (a) whether it wants to allow extraction of the MIB module and if so (b) what copyright notice and restrictions on use apply. That's not actually what draft-ietf-ipr-submission-rights-06.txt says, though. Since that document is now in Last Call, I shall comment asking to ask that this apparent omission be rectified. //cmh _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 30 14:10:01 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11317 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hvOK-0005JF-Gu for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:09:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6UI9aPY020405 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:09:36 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hvNl-0005HH-BP; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:09:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hvNF-0005GV-PC for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:08:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11217 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hvND-0002Nt-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:08:27 -0400 Received: from auemail2.lucent.com ([192.11.223.163] helo=auemail2.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hvNC-0002No-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:08:26 -0400 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by auemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h6UI83J05013 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:08:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:07:48 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550213BFA1@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: "C. M. Heard" , bridge-mib@ietf.org Cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org, "Scott Bradner (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:07:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I have not reacted much yet, because I am not good at copy-right law (or any law for that matter). But I have some comment/questions inline: Thanks, Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: C. M. Heard [mailto:heard@pobox.com] > Sent: woensdag 30 juli 2003 19:22 > To: bridge-mib@ietf.org > Cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org > Subject: Re: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement > > > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, C. M. Heard wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Scott Bradner wrote: > > > if the IETF is republishing the material it must have a > > > non-exclusive grant of copyright to do so so the ISOC copyright > > > is correct - if the IEEE is not granting that non-exclusive > > > right then the RFC can not be published > > > > Well, it's not obvious that a grant of copyright, as opposed to > > permission to use the material, is required for republication. > > > > But even if ISOC does get a non-exclusive grant of copyright, the > > point still stands that the standard abbreviated MIB copyright > > notice would be misleading since it mentions ISOC only, and not > > the IEEE, which in this case is the principal copyright holder. > And so we point back to the RFC for the full legal notice. I would personally have no problem to adapt the text somewhat to also indicate IEEE copy-right. But which lawyer is goin to formulate the proper text. The text we now use for MIB modules has been passed by our IETF lawyer. If we modify it for this specific MIB module, I guess we need to run it by our lawyer as well. > Another point to be noted is that extraction of a MIB module from > an RFC (or an Internet-Draft) amounts to creation of a derivative > work. The IEEE can grant permission for the IETF to republish the > MIB module in an informational RFC without necessarily granting > permission for the MIB module to be extracted; that permission > needs to be granted separately. If the MIB module cannot be extracted because derivative works are not allowed, then I see no use at all to publish this MIB document as an RFC. An alternative option might be to publish the RFC without the MIB module and just include a pointer to the inline MIB module at the IEEE web site. Bert _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 30 14:35:01 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12171 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hvmW-0006Ot-4T for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:34:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6UIYaaL024592 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:34:36 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hvlw-0006NX-NP; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:34:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hvlt-0006N9-QL for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:33:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12122 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hvlr-0002bw-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:33:55 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hvlq-0002bt-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:33:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6UIXmn01403; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:33:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:33:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" cc: bridge-mib@ietf.org, stds-802-1@ieee.org, "Scott Bradner (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] FW: MIB copyright statement In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550213BFA1@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > > > But even if ISOC does get a non-exclusive grant of copyright, the > > > point still stands that the standard abbreviated MIB copyright > > > notice would be misleading since it mentions ISOC only, and not > > > the IEEE, which in this case is the principal copyright holder. > > > And so we point back to the RFC for the full legal notice. > I would personally have no problem to adapt the text somewhat > to also indicate IEEE copy-right. But which lawyer is goin to > formulate the proper text. The text we now use for MIB modules > has been passed by our IETF lawyer. If we modify it for this > specific MIB module, I guess we need to run it by our lawyer as > well. True. I think this discussion may have uncovered some gaps in the submission-rights draft which is in last call, so I'm going to make some last call comments with cc: to ipr-wg@ietf.org ... that is a more appropriate venue for discussing this specific issue. Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Jul 30 15:32:02 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14890 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hwfg-0000a0-QE for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:31:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6UJVaJx002217 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:31:36 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hwf7-0000Yw-8d; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:31:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19hweK-0000YM-LK for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:30:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14856 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hweJ-0002y8-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:30:11 -0400 Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19hweI-0002y5-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:30:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (heard@localhost) by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6UJUAF20871; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:30:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: shell4.bayarea.net: heard owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:30:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "C. M. Heard" X-Sender: heard@shell4.bayarea.net To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550213BFA1@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > An alternative option might be to publish the RFC without the MIB > module and just include a pointer to the inline MIB module at the > IEEE web site. Actually, I rather like that idea. It certainly ensures that the stuff in the information RFC can't get out-of-sync with the IEEE's official version. The only problem with that http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/MIBs/802-1x-2001-mib.txt has some problems that make it fail to compile (an illegal expression for the OID assigned as the MODULE-IDENTITY value, non-ascii quotes, and the absence of dot1xPaePortReauthenticate and dot1xAuthSessionUserName from conformance groups). The version in the -01 draft corrected these problems. I see that the IEEE is in fact working on a maintenance release of 802.1X (see http://www.ieee802.org/1/pages/802.1aa.html, or look for the 802.1aa link under http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/1/), and one of the work items is a MIB module update. However, this is in the private area and I don't know whether it includes the corrections mentioned above (nor how else it might differ from the current published version of the IEEE8021-PAE-MIB). Maybe someone from 802.1aa could comment? //cmh _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Jul 31 04:09:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA15678 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19i8Uj-0004Uk-VN for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:09:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6V895eq017273 for bridge-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:09:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19i8Ue-0004Tm-6B; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:09:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19i8Tl-0004QT-Eu for bridge-mib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:08:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA15614 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19i8Ti-0000ck-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:08:02 -0400 Received: from ip-161-71-171-238.corp-eur.3com.com ([161.71.171.238] helo=columba.www.eur.3com.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19i8Th-0000cg-00 for bridge-mib@ietf.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:08:02 -0400 Received: from toucana.eur.3com.com (toucana.EUR.3Com.COM [140.204.220.50]) by columba.www.eur.3com.com with ESMTP id h6V89SkC013184; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:09:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from notesmta.eur.3com.com (eurmta1.EUR.3Com.COM [140.204.220.206]) by toucana.eur.3com.com with SMTP id h6V8A6d08304; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:10:07 +0100 (BST) Received: by notesmta.eur.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 80256D74.002CA985 ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:07:49 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM From: "Les Bell" To: "C. M. Heard" cc: bridge-mib@ietf.org, stds-802-1@ieee.org Message-ID: <80256D74.002CA874.00@notesmta.eur.3com.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:07:42 +0100 Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bridge-mib@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , The changes to the MIB for IEEE 802.1aa include the corrections in draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt. There are also some other significant changes to be done for 802.1aa, due to recent changes in the state machines and the managed objects that reflect this. This work is not complete yet Les.... "C. M. Heard" @ietf.org on 30/07/2003 20:30:07 Sent by: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org To: bridge-mib@ietf.org cc: stds-802-1@ieee.org Subject: RE: [Bridge-mib] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bridge-8021x-02.txt On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > An alternative option might be to publish the RFC without the MIB > module and just include a pointer to the inline MIB module at the > IEEE web site. Actually, I rather like that idea. It certainly ensures that the stuff in the information RFC can't get out-of-sync with the IEEE's official version. The only problem with that http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/MIBs/802-1x-2001-mib.txt has some problems that make it fail to compile (an illegal expression for the OID assigned as the MODULE-IDENTITY value, non-ascii quotes, and the absence of dot1xPaePortReauthenticate and dot1xAuthSessionUserName from conformance groups). The version in the -01 draft corrected these problems. I see that the IEEE is in fact working on a maintenance release of 802.1X (see http://www.ieee802.org/1/pages/802.1aa.html, or look for the 802.1aa link under http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/1/), and one of the work items is a MIB module update. However, this is in the private area and I don't know whether it includes the corrections mentioned above (nor how else it might differ from the current published version of the IEEE8021-PAE-MIB). Maybe someone from 802.1aa could comment? //cmh _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib _______________________________________________ Bridge-mib mailing list Bridge-mib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bridge-mib