Subject: Re: CAP & busytime? - CUA-BOT

From: "Preston Stephenson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:03:50 -0700

Sorry, I didn't speak clearly before.
I'm saying that as a [my] CS,  I don't have the capability to store
VFREEBUSY information.
If a CUA tries to create a VFREEBUSY object on my CS, The CS will have
to reply that the capability is not supported.
I on the other hand as a CS, I can generate and return VFREEBUSY
information upon request.

I'm trying to map the CAP / iMIP / iTIP functionality onto an existing
product.
I don't want to write a new program that just supports CAP.
It would be easier to provide the iTIP functionality through CAP
without having to re-architect my existing application.

Preston Stephenson
[email-masked]

>>> [email-masked] 4/1/2003 3:41:06 PM >>>

Preston Stephenson wrote:
> In section 2.2 of the CAP spec. it says: "All scheduling operations 
> (and) are as define(d) in [iTIP]. This memo makes no changes to any
of 
> the workflow described in [iTIP]." I implied by that I could do the
iTIP 
> functionality of returning the iTIP VFREEBUSY REPLY in the reply of
the 
> CAP create of the iTIP VFREEBUSY REQUEST. I have the problem that I 
> can't store/save free/busy information.

You can store all iTIP messages in a CS. Including VFREEBUSY. They
have methods so they are stored in the UNPROCESSED state waiting
like all other UNPROCESSED iTIP messages for a CUA to act on them.

With a CUA-BOT, then you can have it automatically respond to
METHOD:REQUEST
for VFREEBUSY and other iTIP messages.

> Separate question. I don't understand the first sentence. Should it
be 
> "All scheduling operations are as defined in [iTIP]."?
> Thanks.

Yes - thanks.

-- 

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---

From: Doug Royer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:39:11 -0700

> Sorry, I didn't speak clearly before.
... (see below...)

I think you are saying that your VCAR (decreed or not) does
not allow VFREEBUSY to be stored in your CS.
That is fine.

I also think that you are saying that your CS will magically
somehow provide a valid VFREEBUSY to requesting CUA's.
That is is also fine. However CAP does not mandate or specify
how that is done. In effect you have a mini-CUA (BOT) built into
your CS that deposits (from the CUA's point of view) VFREEBUSY
components into each calendar (when in reality you probably
generate them dynamically and on the fly).

I do not see that you are breaking CAP.

Another approach is for a CS to not generate them AND
not allow CUA to deposit them at which point the CS would
NOT supply VFREEBUSY in its COMPONENTS CAPABILITY reply
and a CUA would know to never ask that CS.

Another approach is for the CS to allow a CUA to deposit
and fetch VFREEBUSY components just like any other iTIP
components, and then some CUA (BOT?) must then manage the
VFREEBUSY on the CS.

One of the reasons that we dropped automatically processing
VFREEBUSY processing on the CS was there is going to be
a LARGE debate on how its contents are going to be generated.

	Must I include all OPAQUE object times?

	What if I do not want to? Why can I not
	write a custom CS that is for my business that
	takes into account company hours and holidays.
	Would I have to make entries in my company calendar
	that block out closed times? What if I want the
	results of a VFREEBUSY request to be dynamic so that
	my BOSS get to schedule in my 'do no bother me time'
	but non-BOSS CU's see it at blocked.

	Would I have to generate components in my
	calendar for the time I am normally sleeping?
	If not what is to keep that from being considered
	free time? I schedule with people around the world.

	Must the BUSY time match the booked objects in the
	calendar?

	Can I set aside time for travel? As in I want 15 minutes
	before and after all meetings at LOCATION:x automatically.

	Why can't I allow each user to specify how their VFREEBUSY
	time is generated?

	What happens when a user goes on vacation?
         If some of the appointments are already OPAQUE/NOCONFLICT
         in the calendar when they go on vacation, they can not enter
         any 1-week entries in their calendar so they have to create
         a series of entries that work around the booked NOCONFLICT
         time. Why can't I just have my CUA deposit a VFREEBUSY that
         shows the vacation time as busy?

	Can I turn on/off the CS's ability to automatically
	generate VFREEBUSY times.

I think it is best left to a separate draft.

--

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:02:08 -0500

Doug wrote on 04/01/2003 07:39:11 PM:
>                 In effect you have a mini-CUA (BOT) built into

Ya cant break what isnt specified...

> a LARGE debate on how its contents are going to be generated.

Can you please refresh me on when the WG kaiboshed us on doing this 
automatically in the CS?  I still cant find it in any archives...

>    Must I include all OPAQUE object times?

Why not?  That status is conveyed in the fbtypeparam:

     fbtypeparam        = "FBTYPE" "=" ("FREE" / "BUSY"
                        / "BUSY-UNAVAILABLE" / "BUSY-TENTATIVE"
                        / x-name
        ; Some experimental iCalendar data type.
                        / iana-token)

and I think that CAP needs to expand this list to include the new 
properties that it defined for TRANParent.

>    What if I do not want to? 

Why not indicate "Im busy from 9AM-9:30AM Today" when you really are?  Why 
would you want someone to think you were avaiable when you're already 
booked?    Isn't that the purpose of busytime, to tell folks when you are 
busy??

>    that block out closed times? 

Nice ideas.  We've had some in Notes since Notes 4.5. 

Again though nothing prevents my boss from scheduling a meeting 'after 
hours' if he wants to...

>                                  What if I want ...
[Snip, snip]

Nothing preventing you from building this but Id say that some of what you 
want is better left for post-CAP 1.0...

> I think it is best left to a separate draft.

Adding features and bells/whistles like you want I agree is best left for 
after CAP 1.0.  I think that a clear busytime system needs to be in CAP 
1.0 though! 

However this still does not address my original question about HOW does 
CAP specify busytime query/retrieval.  Using iTIP REQUEST/REPLY appears to 
be your response but where do I query to get the REPLYs from you, Pat and 
Bob?  Do I SEARCH my UNPROCESSED docs??  Ugh!  Thats really 

I strongly think that that approach is the wrong one to take and that CAP 
should have a clearer and better mechanism for doing this. 

From the skimming of the flurry of msgs today I get the impression that 
dynamic data is the way we all think it should go (we just disagree about 
how to extend it I think). 

For CAP 1.0 we can simply say that the CS returns data is reflective of 
the TARGETs contents "subject to Administrative policies" and that the CS 
is responsible for maintaining the VFREEBUSY in the store/calendar (NOT 
the CUA!).  You can then build your bells/whistles features as such and 
thus provide the nifty features to any CAP client. 

Of course to even try this we need more votes...  Ive seen 4 so far.  Do I 
count you as #5 Doug?

Bruce
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