From julian.cable@bbc.co.uk Mon Oct 14 08:10:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4387521E8168 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:10:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOunsC0zAkHc for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout0.mh.bbc.co.uk (mailout0.mh.bbc.co.uk [132.185.144.151]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFBC21E80AF for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BGB01XI1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.184.50.55]) by mailout0.mh.bbc.co.uk (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r9EF9mVi010257 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:09:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from BGB01XUD1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([169.254.10.42]) by BGB01XI1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.184.50.55]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.004; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:09:48 +0100 From: Julian Cable To: "calsify@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-douglass-timezone-service-08 Thread-Index: Ac7I72w9RCyAT0SRRVOwz86vT42xnw== Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:09:47 +0000 Message-ID: <77C8CBAB-40A0-4002-988D-BBE1803B17E0@bbc.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-exclaimer-md-config: 1cd3ac1c-62e5-43f2-8404-6b688271c769 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0A18D47BBC82624D8CAEF171FBE0C814@bbc.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [calsify] draft-douglass-timezone-service-08 X-BeenThere: calsify@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:11:21 -0000 Hi, I wanted to offer my support for this standard. I think it would be usefu= l as an end user facing service as well as for distributing time zone updat= es. In the end user (e.g. Date calculations in browsers ) it would be usefu= l to have a service on a different server from the web server so JSONP woul= d be useful. Julian ----------------------------- http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specif= ically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ----------------------------- From timhare@comcast.net Tue Oct 15 13:30:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E064221F9DED for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 13:30:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.422 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.422 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29a7+sHlTggV for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 13:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe14:43:76:96:62:96]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65FA821F84DB for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 13:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.72]) by qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dPP01m00A1ZXKqc59YWh1L; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:30:41 +0000 Received: from THARE ([68.84.18.160]) by omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dYWh1m00P3TD7j03hYWhvn; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:30:41 +0000 From: "Tim Hare" To: "'Julian Cable'" , References: <77C8CBAB-40A0-4002-988D-BBE1803B17E0@bbc.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <77C8CBAB-40A0-4002-988D-BBE1803B17E0@bbc.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 16:30:21 -0400 Message-ID: <010501cec9e5$5f46eae0$1dd4c0a0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac7I72w9RCyAT0SRRVOwz86vT42xnwA9YAwg Content-Language: en-us DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1381869041; bh=mnm+fkvsjftIdJ0F15s4hevHXIkTBgOjCnsYp5QshEI=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=GRtaUVUX9vbU+Kg4TDO4+wOPDWy8OsTsFnbh4KnaSzGifQg1A4e4LIZKk4vYo2W9q pzoRGoIuzvUKCRogS3A2AkMuAiwtlVTR/FF66htM82isHi0HA0gIRLhrvmzLibDJLv nVm8pSa6xAPuCJYZdCeiL2F8iAKIyCYTisbU4Gf9gPhHJIyNehIooikMKYGf5PiD/6 d5l/zxCcEbuLXtMPzP7o4ZdmY0JlK2z9HMtacPQrxZs+rwUo6GSvb33XUOWPYsXeVr a9U+o59AWqydvYK7uz6+rKx7qHeYs3SIh/5v9EVGuoLnT5iC8Soqa3MpQIR13vCR2G ZQ3j2zwY8H2iw== Subject: Re: [calsify] draft-douglass-timezone-service-08 X-BeenThere: calsify@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:30:50 -0000 I need to read this again, probably, but on first reading my thought is that instead of adding COLOR and anything else like it, we should instead have style-by-reference: perhaps VSTYLE with a URI value to reference a standard stylesheet somehow? My argument, in essence, is the one that has followed markup for decades now - let's keep the presentation values separated from the content, so that presentation can be changed without content modification. Tim Hare Interested Bystander, Non-Inc. -----Original Message----- From: calsify-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:calsify-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Julian Cable Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:10 AM To: calsify@ietf.org Subject: [calsify] draft-douglass-timezone-service-08 Hi, I wanted to offer my support for this standard. I think it would be useful as an end user facing service as well as for distributing time zone updates. In the end user (e.g. Date calculations in browsers ) it would be useful to have a service on a different server from the web server so JSONP would be useful. Julian ----------------------------- http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ calsify mailing list calsify@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/calsify From cyrus@daboo.name Tue Oct 15 18:10:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A1011E8244 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DGlDTE2ExMaK for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [173.13.55.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BF511E8250 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383C94E7FAFD; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:10:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at example.com Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (daboo.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OKIVqc-NX73n; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.13] (unknown [173.13.55.49]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB49F4E7FAF1; Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:10:04 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Tim Hare , 'Julian Cable' , calsify@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010501cec9e5$5f46eae0$1dd4c0a0$@net> References: <77C8CBAB-40A0-4002-988D-BBE1803B17E0@bbc.co.uk> <010501cec9e5$5f46eae0$1dd4c0a0$@net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=1227 Subject: Re: [calsify] draft-daboo-icalendar-extensions-07, was Re: draft-douglass-timezone-service-08 X-BeenThere: calsify@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 01:10:15 -0000 Hi Tim, Just to be clear I think your commentary relates to a different draft (draft-daboo-icalendar-extensions-07) than the one Julian was commenting on, and in the original subject line. --On October 15, 2013 at 4:30:21 PM -0400 Tim Hare wrote: > I need to read this again, probably, but on first reading my thought is > that instead of adding COLOR and anything else like it, we should instead > have style-by-reference: perhaps VSTYLE with a URI value to reference a > standard stylesheet somehow? My argument, in essence, is the one that has > followed markup for decades now - let's keep the presentation values > separated from the content, so that presentation can be changed without > content modification. In any case, your comments about a style sheet is valid - however, I would counter that clients have had the chance to do that via CATEGORIES to tag an event and a local styling option. None have done that to date (well the few I have looked at), yet use of color and image is something they have done. So I would prefer to stick with COLOR and IMAGE options in that draft and maybe, if clients want, consider a "style sheet" option for a future extension. -- Cyrus Daboo From cyrus@daboo.name Wed Oct 30 08:24:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EB611E8199; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:24:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1bGzyOmwYC5A; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [173.13.55.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980F811E824A; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A39450B294A; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at example.com Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (daboo.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r5wOdUNRMifd; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cc0102a-dhcp145.apple.com (unknown [17.212.158.145]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C3A250B293F; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:23:22 -0700 From: Cyrus Daboo To: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com, Eliot Lear Message-ID: <4FBA1270FC906838EB82345F@cc0102a-dhcp145.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <01P06RD9XM60004X76@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <87879E7D-A55B-4A88-80B8-B503C89E52CB@iab.org> <20131030081355.GA23990@nic.fr> <7F135C08-A550-450F-82B4-1F239E115BC3@tzi.org> <20131030083611.GA27804@nic.fr> <01P06PWP9XG4004X76@mauve.mrochek.com> <527119E9.5050407@cisco.com> <01P06RD9XM60004X76@mauve.mrochek.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=2269 Cc: Carsten Bormann , IETF Discuss , IETF-Calsify Subject: Re: [calsify] IETF must use only UTC in its announcements (Was: Live Streaming of the IETF 88 Technical Plenary X-BeenThere: calsify@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:24:05 -0000 Hi ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com, --On October 30, 2013 at 7:52:55 AM -0700 ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: >> > Which argues for including the local time when the event will take >> > place. If you want to mandate that the time also appear in UTC, great, >> > but it's quite important that the local time also be there. > >> And local time should be normative to deal with such unforeseen >> circumstances as a papal visit. From the southamerica file in the TZ >> database: > >> # From Daniel C. Sobral (1998-02-12): >> # In 1997, the DS began on October 6. The stated reason was that >> # because international television networks ignored Brazil's policy on >> # DS, they bought the wrong times on satellite for coverage of Pope's >> # visit. This year, the ending date of DS was postponed to March 1 >> # to help dealing with the shortages of electric power. > >> ;-) > > Good point. I agree. Timezones can (and do) change at very short notice in different parts of the world. Typically computer systems have timezone data cached as part of the OS, and only get updates when the OS is itself updated - often long after a timezone change has occurred or long after future events were booked but are now out of sync for participants in different timezones. To address that a number of folks in the calendaring and scheduling community have been working om a timezone service protocol - - our initial focus for that has been iCalendar (RFC5545) based VTIMEZONE component delivery to calendar and scheduling clients and servers. However, we would like to also deliver OS-style timezone data to devices to break out of the requirement for those to be updated only when the OS itself updates. For unix-based OS's that means being able to deliver "raw" zoneinfo" data over that protocol. Anyway, if you are interested in that work please comment over on the ietf-calsify list (cc'd) - we (the authors of that draft) - intend to get it moving to last call soon. There are already several implementations that have undergone testing at the Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium (CalConnect) interop events, so we are happy with it, but would appreciate more feedback. -- Cyrus Daboo