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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 06:30:34 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree w=
ith this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D=
'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><=
div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursd=
ay, June 30, 2011 1:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<br><b>Cc:</b> 'C=
CAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling=
 drafts status<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Daniele,</=
span> <br><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'>Thank you for your further clarification.</span> <br><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ODU0-ODU3-ODU4 hierarchy d=
oesn't need to be restore. It isn't a common concept in transport network. =
I haven't heard it.</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'>If you create ODU3 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or othe=
r connections (e.g., ODU2, ODU1), you may activate ODU3 restoration/protect=
ion first.</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","=
sans-serif"'>If you create ODU4 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or other connect=
ions (e.g., ODU3), you may activate ODU4 restoration/protection first.</spa=
n> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It=
 depends on what service you have created and network OAM configuration.</s=
pan> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
In my opinion, it doesn't matter with signaling label.</span> <br><br><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Xihua</span> <=
br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadd=
ing=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"35%" valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMso=
Normal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o=
:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
2011-06-28 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7=
</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 09=
:47</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"64%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'widt=
h:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><table class=3DMsoNormalTable bord=
er=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7=
.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&q=
uot; &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td va=
lign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal a=
lign=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-si=
ze:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'=
padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;,=
 &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, Khuzema=
 Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PI=
ETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;</spa=
n> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75=
pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:righ=
t'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o=
:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-s=
erif"'>RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><o:p></o:p></p></=
td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMs=
oNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'paddi=
ng:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .7=
5pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hi Xihua,</span> <br><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span> <br><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Let's consider O=
DU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hieararchy as in your example. </span><br><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span> <br><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>What i meant was:=
 if i have an ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy an operator might want not t=
o be forced to restore che whole hierarchy as it is (i.e. ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt=
;ODU4) along an ODU4 path, but, for example, restore the 2 ODU3 comprising =
the hieranchy in an independent manner and possibly on different paths.</sp=
an> <br><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span> <br>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue=
'>Suppose that in your example the ODU4 link (L4-L5) get broken. It could b=
e possible to restore the path from H3 to H8 using a different ODU4 link, o=
r independetly restore the 2 ODU3 (e.g. an ODU3 along H3-L6-L7-H8 and the o=
ther one along a different ODU3 path, which could be H3-L8-L9-H8 ODU3 path =
not in figure). </span><br><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
>&nbsp;</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif";color:blue'>Thanks,</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Daniele</span> <o:p></o:p></p><di=
v class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2=
 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-b=
ottom:12.0pt'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif"'> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><br>S=
ent:</b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.02<b><br>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli=
<b><br>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, P=
IETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>Subject:</b> Re: Re: [CCAMP] OTN sig=
nalling drafts status</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'><br></span><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'><br>Hi All,</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif=
"'><br>[R8] is not clear for me. <br>What is meaning of &nbsp;<i>ODU1-&gt;O=
DU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy needs to be restored </i>?</span><span style=3D'font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>I don't think the activity of restoration =
will be different because of your label usage.</span><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>As following figures illustrate, L4, L5, L6 a=
nd L7 couldn't support ODU0 switching capability.</span><span style=3D'font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>You could create ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA along =
H3-L4-L5-H8 for one e2e ODU0 connection.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif"'><br>After failure of fiber between L4 and L5. Operator =
may cofigure OAM to activate ODU3 or ODU4 FA restoration first. Operator ma=
y also cofigure OAM to activate ODU0 restoration first.</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Whatever you do, we may switch the=
 traffic to H3-L6-L7-H8.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'><br>It depends on the OAM configuration, for example, which layer OAM c=
ould be activated.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
<br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'><br>Single-Stage Label:</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'> <br></span><img id=3D"_x0000_i1026" src=3D"cid:image001.gif@01CC37B8=
.62022680"><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Multi-Sta=
ge Label:</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></spa=
n><img id=3D"_x0000_i1027" src=3D"cid:image002.gif@01CC37B8.62022680"><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Xihua Fu</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><tabl=
e class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D=
'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"22%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:22.0%;padd=
ing:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.c=
eccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-siz=
e:7.5pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-famil=
y:"Arial","sans-serif"'>: &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D=
'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2011-06-28 </span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 05:21</span><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D=
"77%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable borde=
r=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=
=3D"4%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:4.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZ=
H-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td=
><td width=3D"95%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:95.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .7=
5pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'>Khuzema Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quo=
t;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot=
; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;, 'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf=
.org&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:=
p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><sp=
an lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p=
></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr>=
<tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DM=
soNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dto=
p style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [CCAMP] OTN sign=
alling drafts status</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMs=
oNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0=
%'><tr><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .7=
5pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;p=
adding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Hi Khuzema,</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>thanks for th=
e requirements and the comparison.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>I have a question and would like to =
add some requirements.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif=
"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";color:blue'><br>Q1: Could you please clarify why R2 can be addre=
ssed in a more scalable way and with better performances with the multi sta=
ge approach?</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><br>[R7] Backward compatibility</span><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>How could an RFC 6107 base=
d implementation interwork with a node using the multistage label only?</sp=
an><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br=
>[R8] Restoration per layer</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Suppose to have a ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hi=
erarchy that needs to be restored and there is no ODU4 link available, but =
there are 2 ODU3 available on different paths and i could potentially resto=
re the 2 ODU3 independently. Is this allowed by the multi stage label appro=
ach?</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</sp=
an><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:b=
lue'><br>Finally, i think that supporting both types of labels could be a g=
ood compromise, maybe the single stage one as mandatory and the multi stage=
 as optional</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&n=
bsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><br>BR</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";co=
lor:blue'><br>Daniele</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'tex=
t-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>=
On Behalf Of </b>Khuzema Pithewan<b><br>Sent:</b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 20=
11 6.23<b><br>To:</b> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'<b>=
<br>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this off=
.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif"'><br>Hi CCampers, </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif"'><br>We would like to provide more context to multi-stag=
e label approach for better understanding. &nbsp;OTN is inherently a hierar=
chical network, and there are/will be cases where service ODU has to go thr=
ough mandatory creation of more than one layer because of various technical=
/economic reasons. We are listing here requirements for supporting services=
 over hierarchical OTN network.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><=
br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>1. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
[R1] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj service layer on a ODU=
k link via single stage muxing. <br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif"'><br>A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (j&lt;k) multi=
plexing on a given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data-plane entiti=
es are created for the ODUj service layer. ODUk link could be a point-to-po=
int OTUk link or a H-LSP.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>2. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R2] Sup=
port signaling mechanism to instantiate one or more intermediate layers on =
a ODUk link in order to support the ODUj service layer. <br></span><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stag=
e multiplexing on a given ODUk link. These intermediate layers can be impli=
citly created as a part of ODUj service LSP creation. In this case, both co=
ntrolplane and dataplane entities will be created for the ODUj service laye=
r. However, intermediate ODU layer(s) (implicitly created) will have datapl=
ane representation only. <br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><=
br>3. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R3] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate O=
DUj service layer on a ODUk link where one or more intermediate ODU layers =
may be pre-existing. <br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>A=
 ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk link=
. These intermediate layers may be pre-existing &nbsp;as a result of anothe=
r LSP creation on the same ODU hierarchy or explicitly configured through m=
anagement interface. <br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>4=
. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R4] Support signaling mechanism where ODUj service L=
SP creation may involve varying mux hierarchies on each hop <br></span><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creati=
on may involve zero or more stage ODU multiplexing on every hop in the path=
. Basically,the scenarios discussed in R1 to R3 could be associated with an=
y of the hops involved. &nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><=
/span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>5. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R5]=
 Support signaling mechanism for egress control of OTN interfaces <br></spa=
n><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>An egress interface of a ODUj L=
SP could involve single or multiple stage multiplexing. Egress Label sub-ob=
ject defined in [RFC-4003] must be used to signal hierarchical multiplexing=
 information pertaining to the egress interface of the LSP. &nbsp; <br></sp=
an><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>6. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R6] Su=
pport signaling mechanism when ODUj service LSP creation requires induced o=
r manually created H-LSP.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>B=
ased on the above requirements, following is the comparison between two dra=
fts under discussion.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-s=
erif"'>&nbsp;</span> <o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D=
1 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%;border:outset 3.0pt'=
><tr><td width=3D"9%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:9.0%;background:#C4BC96;p=
adding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Requirement</span><span style=3D'font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"38%" valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'width:38.0%;background:#C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .7=
5pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
'>Draft-Zhang</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"52%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:52.0%;b=
ackground:#C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Draft-Khuzema</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr>=
<tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R1</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported</span><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><=
tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R2</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-LSPs f=
or each HO-ODU layers</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif"'>Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and better restor=
ation performance.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt=
 .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif"'>R3</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif"'>Supported using H-LSPs for each non-existing HO-ODU layers </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'=
>Supported without H-LSPs</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'paddin=
g:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R4</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-s=
erif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported without H-LSPs=
</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p>=
</p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt=
'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R=
5</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p=
></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Not Suppo=
rted</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></=
o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Suppor=
ted</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o=
:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .7=
5pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
'>R6</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></=
o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Suppor=
ted using H-LSP</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt=
 .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if"'>Supported using H-LSP</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p style=
=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbs=
p;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Would like =
to hear opinions.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <=
/span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br></span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Authors draft-khuzema</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><b><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>From:</span></b><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>GRANDI, PIE=
TRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2011 6:53 P=
M<b><br>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<b><br>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts st=
atus</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Hello CCampers,</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Currently two drafts exist for the sign=
aling of LSPs in OTN technology.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","=
sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'><br>The two drafts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g7=
09 and <br>draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709, contain a lot of simil=
arities</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>but are =
fundamentally different with respect to the support of multi-stage technolo=
gy.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><=
span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Draft-zhang propos=
es to deal with multi-stage technology via the usage</span><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC610=
7. With this approach all LSPs</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'><br>belonging to intermediate layers of a hierarchy are signaled=
 as separate H-LSPs.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'=
><br>Monitoring, protection and restoration functionalities are applicable =
independently to each LSP. </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'><br>Draft-khuzema proposes to introduce a new multi-sta=
ge label concept so that</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'><br>a single construct contains labels associated to more then one hie=
rarchical level.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </=
span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br=
>This implies that all level in the OTN &nbsp;hierarchy with the exclusion =
of service levels</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><b=
r>are not visible as single LSPs. <br>Each layer cannot be independently mo=
nitored.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Only th=
e service layer (the layer with the finest granularity) can be protected or=
 restored.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br><=
/span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Advantages =
and disadvantages of both approaches can be summarized in short, telling th=
at</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>the H-LSP app=
roach is able to work in any situation while the multi-stage label approach=
 is suitable <br>on single hops or similar situations (reached signaling be=
fore an H-LSP) but, when used, <br>optimizes processing.</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>As such we perceive the Draft-khuzema appro=
ach as an optimization that could be supported in an optional way.</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Before going on with merging=
 of the two drafts we would like to hear opinions from CCampers. &nbsp; &nb=
sp;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><=
span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Pietro &amp; Sergi=
o</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'><br>Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (I=
taly)</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Tel: +39 03=
9 686 4930</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Mail: =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</span><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif"'><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Put you=
r hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Sit with a pretty girl for an=
 hour, and it seems like a &nbsp;minute. That's relativity.</span><span sty=
le=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>(A. Einstein)</span><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br></span><tt>______________________=
_________________________</tt><br><tt>CCAMP mailing list</tt><br><tt>CCAMP@=
ietf.org</tt><br><tt>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</tt><o:p><=
/o:p></p></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A69731EMBX01HQjnprn_--

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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:15:20 -0500
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Xihua,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The problem I have with t=
he multi-stage (sic) label is it neglects the other signaling details neces=
sary for multiple layers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Right now, the other sign=
aling objects (protection, notify, etc.) are all associated with a single l=
ayer.&nbsp; Making the label multiple layers requires these other
 objects to also need to be able to specify detail for multiple layers.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">This is consistent with y=
our statement =A1=B0It depends on =A1=AD OAM configuration=A1=B1 =A8C there=
 needs to be mechanisms to deal with defining the OAM being monitored and
 the reactions the dataplane should take.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">What I=A1=AFve been askin=
g for (since this topic started a couple of weeks ago in the design team) i=
s a discussion of how the OAM trigger/response configuration
 is performed for the multi-stage label case.&nbsp; Its intuitively obvious=
 for the H-LSP case, but will require new constructs for what is being prop=
osed.&nbsp; I look forward to seeing solutions so a real comparison between=
 the two approaches can be made.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Hi Daniele,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Thank you for your further clarification.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">ODU0-ODU3-ODU4 hierarchy doesn't need to be restore. It isn't a =
common concept in transport network. I haven't heard it.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">If you create ODU3 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or other connectio=
ns (e.g., ODU2, ODU1), you may activate ODU3 restoration/protection first.<=
/span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">If you create ODU4 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or other connectio=
ns (e.g., ODU3), you may activate ODU4 restoration/protection first.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">It depends on what service you have created and network OAM conf=
iguration.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">In my opinion, it doesn't matter with signaling label.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Xihua</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarel=
li@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2011-06-28 </span>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
> 09:47</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;fu.xih=
ua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, Khuzema Pithewan &=
lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTOR=
IO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts stat=
us</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:blue">Hi Xihua,</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:blue">Let's consider ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hieararchy as i=
n your example.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:blue">What i meant was: if i have an ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4=
 hierarchy an operator might want not to be forced to restore che whole hie=
rarchy as it is (i.e. ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4) along an ODU4 path,
 but, for example, restore the 2 ODU3 comprising the hieranchy in an indepe=
ndent manner and possibly on different paths.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:blue">Suppose that in your example the ODU4 link (L4-L5) ge=
t broken. It could be possible to restore the path from H3 to H8 using a di=
fferent ODU4 link, or independetly restore the 2 ODU3
 (e.g. an ODU3 along H3-L6-L7-H8 and the other one along a different ODU3 p=
ath, which could be H3-L8-L9-H8 ODU3 path not in figure).
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:blue">Thanks,</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:blue">Daniele</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;"> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.02<b><br>
To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><br>
Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO V=
ITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><br>
Hi All,</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;"> <br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
[R8] is not clear for me. <br>
What is meaning of &nbsp;<i>ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy needs to be re=
stored </i>?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
I don't think the activity of restoration will be different because of your=
 label usage.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
As following figures illustrate, L4, L5, L6 and L7 couldn't support ODU0 sw=
itching capability.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
You could create ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA along H3-L4-L5-H8 for one e2e ODU0 conn=
ection.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
After failure of fiber between L4 and L5. Operator may cofigure OAM to acti=
vate ODU3 or ODU4 FA restoration first. Operator may also cofigure OAM to a=
ctivate ODU0 restoration first.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Whatever you do, we may switch the traffic to H3-L6-L7-H8.</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
It depends on the OAM configuration, for example, which layer OAM could be =
activated.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Single-Stage Label:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"> <br>
</span><img width=3D"795" height=3D"378" id=3D"_x0000_i1026" src=3D"cid:ima=
ge001.gif@01CC37CE.CB8F0440"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Multi-Stage Label:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"> <br>
</span><img width=3D"793" height=3D"380" id=3D"_x0000_i1027" src=3D"cid:ima=
ge002.gif@01CC37CE.CB8F0440"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Xihua Fu</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;"> <br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"22%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:22.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarel=
li@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">: &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2011-06-28 </span>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
> 05:21</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"77%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:77.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"4%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:4.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"95%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:95.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Khuzema Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.co=
m&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(PIETRO VIT=
TORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;, 'CCAMP' &lt=
;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
Hi Khuzema,</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"> <br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
thanks for the requirements and the comparison.</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
I have a question and would like to add some requirements.</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
Q1: Could you please clarify why R2 can be addressed in a more scalable way=
 and with better performances with the multi stage approach?</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
[R7] Backward compatibility</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
How could an RFC 6107 based implementation interwork with a node using the =
multistage label only?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
[R8] Restoration per layer</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
Suppose to have a ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy that needs to be restore=
d and there is no ODU4 link available, but there are 2 ODU3 available on di=
fferent paths and i could potentially restore the 2 ODU3 independently. Is =
this allowed by the multi stage label
 approach?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"> <br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
Finally, i think that supporting both types of labels could be a good compr=
omise, maybe the single stage one as mandatory and the multi stage as optio=
nal</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">
<br>
&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
BR</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><br>
Daniele</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Khuzema Pithewan<b><br>
Sent:</b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 6.23<b><br>
To:</b> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><span style=3D"=
font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"><br>
Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this off.</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
Hi CCampers, </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
We would like to provide more context to multi-stage label approach for bet=
ter understanding. &nbsp;OTN is inherently a hierarchical network, and ther=
e are/will be cases where service ODU has to go through mandatory creation =
of more than one layer because of various
 technical/economic reasons. We are listing here requirements for supportin=
g services over hierarchical OTN network.</span><span style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
1. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R1] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj=
 service layer on a ODUk link via single stage muxing.
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (j&lt;k) multiplexing on=
 a given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data-plane entities are cre=
ated for the ODUj service layer. ODUk link could be a point-to-point OTUk l=
ink or a H-LSP.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
2. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R2] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate one =
or more intermediate layers on a ODUk link in order to support the ODUj ser=
vice layer.
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk lin=
k. These intermediate layers can be implicitly created as a part of ODUj se=
rvice LSP creation. In this case, both controlplane and dataplane entities =
will be created for the ODUj service
 layer. However, intermediate ODU layer(s) (implicitly created) will have d=
ataplane representation only.
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
3. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R3] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj=
 service layer on a ODUk link where one or more intermediate ODU layers may=
 be pre-existing.
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk lin=
k. These intermediate layers may be pre-existing &nbsp;as a result of anoth=
er LSP creation on the same ODU hierarchy or explicitly configured through =
management interface.
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
4. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R4] Support signaling mechanism where ODUj service =
LSP creation may involve varying mux hierarchies on each hop
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creation may involve zero or more stage ODU =
multiplexing on every hop in the path. Basically,the scenarios discussed in=
 R1 to R3 could be associated with any of the hops involved. &nbsp;</span><=
span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
5. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R5] Support signaling mechanism for egress control =
of OTN interfaces <br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
An egress interface of a ODUj LSP could involve single or multiple stage mu=
ltiplexing. Egress Label sub-object defined in [RFC-4003] must be used to s=
ignal hierarchical multiplexing information pertaining to the egress interf=
ace of the LSP. &nbsp;
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
6. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R6] Support signaling mechanism when ODUj service L=
SP creation requires induced or manually created H-LSP.</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
Based on the above requirements, following is the comparison between two dr=
afts under discussion.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%;border:outset 3.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"9%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:9.0%;background:#C4BC96;padd=
ing:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Requirement</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"38%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:38.0%;background:#C4BC96;pa=
dding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Zhang</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"52%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:52.0%;background:#C4BC96;pa=
dding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Khuzema</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R1</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R2</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and bette=
r restoration performance.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R3</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each non-existing HO-ODU laye=
rs
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs</span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R4</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs</span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R5</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Not Supported</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R6</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSP</span><span style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
Would like to hear opinions.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><br>
Authors draft-khuzema</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>
Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2011 6:53 PM<b><br>
To:</b> 'CCAMP'<b><br>
Subject:</b> [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Hello CCampers,</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Currently two drafts exist for the signaling of LSPs in OTN technology.</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
The two drafts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709 and <br>
draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709, contain a lot of similarities</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
but are fundamentally different with respect to the support of multi-stage =
technology.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Draft-zhang proposes to deal with multi-stage technology via the usage</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC6107. With this approach all LSPs</span>=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
belonging to intermediate layers of a hierarchy are signaled as separate H-=
LSPs.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Monitoring, protection and restoration functionalities are applicable indep=
endently to each LSP.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Draft-khuzema proposes to introduce a new multi-stage label concept so that=
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
a single construct contains labels associated to more then one hierarchical=
 level.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
This implies that all level in the OTN &nbsp;hierarchy with the exclusion o=
f service levels</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
are not visible as single LSPs. <br>
Each layer cannot be independently monitored.</span><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Only the service layer (the layer with the finest granularity) can be prote=
cted or restored.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Advantages and disadvantages of both approaches can be summarized in short,=
 telling that</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
the H-LSP approach is able to work in any situation while the multi-stage l=
abel approach is suitable
<br>
on single hops or similar situations (reached signaling before an H-LSP) bu=
t, when used,
<br>
optimizes processing.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
As such we perceive the Draft-khuzema approach as an optimization that coul=
d be supported in an optional way.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;A=
rial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Before going on with merging of the two drafts we would like to hear opinio=
ns from CCampers. &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Pietro &amp; Sergio</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><br>
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution</span><span style=3D"font-family:&qu=
ot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Tel: &#43;39 039 686 4930</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><br>
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a &nbsp;minute. That'=
s relativity.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
(A. Einstein)</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tre=
buchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New R=
oman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>CCAMP mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>CCAMP@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</tt><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'John E Drake' <jdrake@juniper.net>,  'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:23:27 -0500
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">While=
 putting both into a single document is a simple editorial exercise, it doe=
sn=A1=AFt provide any of the architectural guidance required for the multi-=
layer label case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">As Jo=
hn mentioned in a previous email, how to handle multi-layer in a single sig=
naling session has not been done before. &nbsp;A solution will address more=
 than just the label format =A8C it will also
 look at OAM trigger/response configuration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I loo=
k forward to seeing the details for more than just a multi-layer label (e.g=
. OAM config, Protection object handling, Bundled link processing).&nbsp; O=
nce this is specified, a real comparison
 can be performed between the H-LSP approach and the multi-layer label appr=
oach.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Jonat=
han Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'John E Drake'; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=
 VITTORIO)'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Jo=
hn,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">OK, L=
et=A1=AFs converge.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I thi=
nk you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for some cases r=
ather than universal cases. &nbsp;Based on this example below, we can creat=
e ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage
 muxing (ie., ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP =
and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2). &nbsp;For these two w=
ays, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can understand=
 that these two ways are better and more efficient
 than your approach (two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) &#43;ODU3 FA-LSP).=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">In ad=
dition, we are merging our drafts with [draft-</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Khuzema] to give the flexibi=
lity for the people to choose what they prefer for multi-stage muxing scena=
rio, either (single stage &#43; H-LSP) or multi-stage labels in some cases.=
 We have figured out a perfect unified
 solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this approach=
 to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can just choose sin=
gle stage &#43; H-LSP.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> John E Drake
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<=
/a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">6</s=
pan><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun=
&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">30</span><span lang=3D"Z=
H-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 12:13<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTO=
RIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I had=
 one clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on links, in which=
 case the =A1=AEcontaining hierarchical LSP=A1=AF is the link=A1=AFs OUDk/O=
TUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling multiple
 one hop sub-layer LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Howev=
er, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because having aware=
ness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in inherently less scal=
able than having multi-hop multi-stage
 hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> John E Drake
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<=
/a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">6</s=
pan><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun=
&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">30</span><span lang=3D"Z=
H-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 11:37<br>
<b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VI=
TTORIO)'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Comme=
nts inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Fatai Zhang
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei=
.com]</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO V=
ITTORIO)'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hi John,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">So, you admit that =
ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly by multi-stage label appr=
oach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before ODU0 request? because you assu=
me that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is already
 there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">JD:&n=
bsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in an email I sen=
t you and others some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is that you create =
the containing hierarchical &nbsp;LSP first and then use
 it to establish &nbsp;OUDj client &nbsp;LSPs and their required sub-layer =
LSPs as needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of the =
two proposals being discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">A few points for cl=
arification, even though I follow your thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">How to create the O=
DU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-LSP concept there.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">JD:&n=
bsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it, e=
stablishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D, &nbsp;and then *<b>ei=
ther</b>*
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"=
><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D">Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the ODU0 Path m=
essage to D *<b>OR</b>*<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"=
><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D">Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage label for th=
e ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">If ODU3 FA between =
B and D is already there, the FA should be regarded as one-hop, because the=
re is no difference between one-hop FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario =
should be treated as one-hop scenario
 rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this sentence that we are t=
rying to make you understood many times).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">JD:&n=
bsp; I told Sergio and you &nbsp;last week that I didn=A1=AFt think multi-s=
tage labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and that I only=
 considered them useful in the context of multi-hop
 multistage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing hi=
erarchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">If ODU3 between B a=
nd D is already there based on this example, why it needs to use two stage =
muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not just use the simple one stage muxi=
ng (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)? &nbsp;Please review our slides
 again to get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing(slide 5).<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">JD:&n=
bsp; You could, if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your figure I ha=
d mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that we had an interest=
ing scenario to discuss.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> John E Drake
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<=
/a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">6</s=
pan><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun=
&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">29</span><span lang=3D"Z=
H-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 23:39<br>
<b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VI=
TTORIO)'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Let=
=A1=AFs assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node B and no=
de D over which we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using the sub-layer hi=
erarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer
 ODU2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.&nbsp; With=
 multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stag=
e label.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">As I =
have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-zero amount =
of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels, strictly from an ef=
ficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn=A1=AFt enough
 difference between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Fatai Zhang
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei=
.com]</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO V=
ITTORIO)'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there =
was some improper wording. Let<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;">=A1=AF</span>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? He=
re is a simple example shown below.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection f=
rom Node A to Node E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g.=
, traffic parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message=
? What action should be taken for
 Node C when receiving the Path or Resv message?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"926" height=3D"226" id=
=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.png@01CC37D0.88CCF340" alt=3D"cid:=
image001.png@01CC372D.B2E43CE0"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Fatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]</a> On Behalf Of John E Drake<br>
Sent: 2011<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quo=
t;serif&quot;">=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=C8=D5</span> 6:12<br=
>
To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<br>
Cc: CCAMP<br>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Igor,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">1)&nbsp; Multi-stage labels apply equally well to=
 multi-hop hierarchical LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to =
understand.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarch=
y, as is, just works for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that suppo=
rts multi-stage switching.&nbsp; This involves a nested set of hierarchical=
 LSPs, the containing hierarchical LSP and the
 set of sub-layer LSPs which provide context for intermediate stage labels,=
 between the same two endpoints.&nbsp; This is a new construct and there ar=
e almost certainly details to be worked out.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">3)&nbsp; I don't think we should standardize both=
 approaches.&nbsp; I would prefer that the working group pick one to standa=
rdize.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Igor Bryskin <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto=
:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]">
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO=
); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Hi Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; You may not like John's tone, but emotions a=
side, what he keeps saying<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; repeatedly in this discussion does make perf=
ect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey in=
formation pertinent to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; network element provisioning in most efficie=
nt way. It does seem stupid<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs=
 (when it is sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; single end-to-end round of signaling to do t=
he job), create and support<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; numerous extra CP states, take care of all r=
estart implications, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 1=
0 years ago;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage lab=
el as identification of a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; new type of network resources controlled by =
GMPLS. Even the GMPLS god-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; fathers would agree that they never meant to=
 limit GMPLS to control the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot=
 orchestrate multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs i=
f you choose to do so.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage v=
s multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing l=
ist a number of private<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mails without asking the permission to the i=
nvolved people. This is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; impolite and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list=
 forwarding four threads<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and ver=
y complicated to follow for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; people not involved in the discussion since =
the beginning. Moreover,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; this happened after a discussion from scratc=
h was already started in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 3) You moved from a technical discussion to =
arrogant and deliberate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; personal offenses not supported by any sound=
 technical motivation as<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reported in your mails and snipped below:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &quot;This shows a complete lack of understa=
nding of hierarchical LSP,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.&nb=
sp; It is so bad it is not even<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &quot; It might be more precise to say I rev=
iewed your slides and found<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; them, shall we say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; We hope that from now on the discussion can =
be continued from a purely<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Pietro, Sergio and Daniele<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Tel: &#43;39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.gran=
di@alcatel-lucent.com">
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, a=
nd it seems like an hour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it s=
eems like a&nbsp; minute. That's<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: marted<span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;">=A8=AC</span> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage v=
s multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jon=
athan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ash=
ok Kunjidhapatham; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao=
; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; From: Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[ma=
ilto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VIT=
TORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs =
- Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;=
 <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia=
; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Raja=
n Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; I guess that you did not review our sli=
des carefully.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let this pass.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; You just see the only advantage for the=
 corner case (i.e., establish<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you=
 did not see the issues that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; described in the slides and the issues =
that Jonathan mentioned (eg.,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; OAM/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry that I didn't provide en=
ough context.&nbsp; I don't think the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o mul=
ti-stage labels is either<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; interesting or common and it was not the cas=
e to which I was addressing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; my comments.&nbsp; Rather, I was describing =
two ways of establishing multi-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As =
far as I can tell the issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Jonathan raised in this context are red herr=
ings rather than blue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regardless of whi=
ch of the two approaches I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; described is used, the issues, if any, would=
 be exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; In addition, we have repeated many time=
s that LSP hierarchy must be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; used in many cases, even though we have=
 multi-stage label approach.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A=
 to E through B, C and D, but<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; B,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; C and&nbsp; D (or one of them ) can not=
 support ODU0 switching, the HO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must=
 be created between B and D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; through LSP hierarchy. This example is =
very simple and there are lots<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; of transforms for this example to use L=
SP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; JD:&nbsp; Please see above.&nbsp; I complete=
ly agree with you and was simply<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; pointing out that multi-stage labels can be =
used to improve wrt latency<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and control plane overhead, the establishmen=
t of ODUj LSPs within<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; From: &quot;John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIET=
RO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.g=
randi@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@erics=
son.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrao@infinera.com=
">rrao@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Khuzema<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Pithewan&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kp=
ithewan@infinera.com">kpithewan@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO=
 (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sergio.belotti@al=
catel-lucent.com">sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Ashok Ku=
njidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akunjidhapatham@i=
nfinera.com">akunjidhapatham@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Diego Caviglia&quo=
t;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:diego.caviglia@er=
icsson.com">diego.caviglia@ericsson.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Steve.Balls@metas=
witch.com">Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com">LyOng@Ciena.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.=
cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; &quot;NSN - Cyril Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com=
">cyril.margaria@nsn.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &quot;Li Dan&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:huawei.danli@huawei.com">huawei.danli@huawei.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Jonathan =
Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick=
@metaswitch.com">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jonathan.sadler@t=
ellabs.com">jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Vallinayakam Somasun=
daram&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:valli@juniper.net=
">valli@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; If we are talking about the establishme=
nt of LSPs using single-stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; muxing, I think the only thing necessar=
y is a new label format, which<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; believe is a bit map of tributary slots=
; i.e., LSP establishment<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; using<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; single-stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; We have never had a situation such as m=
ulti-stage muxing before so we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; are breaking new ground and we have two=
 choices, either use LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; hierarchy to establish multiple single-=
stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-la=
yer information within the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; message for the ODUj such that the sub-=
layers are established<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; implicitly and concurrently with the es=
tablishment of the ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Either will work, but it seems to me th=
at the latter is more<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.=
&nbsp; The one thing I do not want<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; do is to say that both are supported.&n=
bsp; If we can agree that we will<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; only use one method to establish multi-=
stage LSPs, then when a node<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; advertises multi-stage support in routi=
ng, we know how signaling is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; be accomplished.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIE=
TRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro_v=
ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]">
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 A=
M<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao;=
 Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Ku=
njidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <a href=
=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs=
 - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTO=
RIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage=
 vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; It seems as though you consider on=
 the same level something (H-LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; concept) already used in CP managi=
ng multi-layer with something<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; does not exist at all.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Operators are used to managed thei=
r CP network together with NMS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the NMS work per-layer. Th=
e utilization of a multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; label<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; would force NMS to work in another=
 manner with heavy implementation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; consequences.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; We should also keep in mind that m=
ulti-stage label approach can<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; used in some cases (not for all th=
e one-hop multi-stage muxing) and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; will bring some management issues.=
 Please see the slides that Fatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; sent a few days ago.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; For both these reasons the &quot;o=
ptional&quot; condition of multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; label<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; concept is absolutely mandatory fo=
r us.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro, Sergio, Fatai &amp; Daniel=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolu=
tion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: &#43;39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vit=
torio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a=
 minute, and it seems like an<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour=
, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mail=
to:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETR=
O VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao;=
 Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Ku=
njidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <a href=
=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs=
 - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage=
 vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; We can certainly say that a node t=
hat advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; support in routing MUST support mu=
ltistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; As I said before, using mutiple RS=
VP exchanges between the same LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; endpoints to establish intermediat=
e switching stages seems ill-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; considered and forcing everyone to=
 support two ways of signaling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; multistage LSPs seems like a reall=
y Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot=
;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittori=
o.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pi=
etro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca=
tel-lucent.com</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I understand that you think that t=
he new switching type in routing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; should also convey implicitly the =
information that a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage label is supported.<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I do not agree with this statement=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Implementations using H-LSPs plus =
single stage labels are possible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; (and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; already standard) and the fact the=
 a node supports<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the new switching type is not enou=
gh to clearly tell what is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mail=
to:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: venerd<span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=A8=AC</span> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETR=
O VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pi=
thewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Cavigl=
ia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Ong'; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@z=
te.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage=
 vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Actually we are already covered.&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; switching type, which is also carr=
ied in signaling.&nbsp; This means<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; get to define the signaling used f=
or this switching type, and I am<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; proposing that we use multistage.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIE=
TRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro_v=
ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]">
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52=
 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Dra=
ke; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)=
; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - =
Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage=
 vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I&nbsp; agree with Daniele' statem=
ent.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; in my mind this means that single =
stage label support is implicit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage labels should not be u=
sed unless a machine explicitly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; declares the support.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolu=
tion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: &#43;39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro=
_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=
lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.=
grandi@alcatel-">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pi=
etro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca=
tel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a=
 minute, and it seems like an<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour=
, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]">
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 15.48<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai=
 Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapat=
ham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve =
Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs =
multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Starting a new thread as we're now=
 moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Assuming we still have not decided=
 whether we're going to support<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; single stage only, multi stage onl=
y or both of them i believe that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; per OSPF we need to consider backw=
ard compatibility.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; An implementation RFC4328 based (t=
hat we've explicitly been told<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; deprecate) is single stage based, =
so in case of multi stage only or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage &#43; single stage we =
should be able to cover backward<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; compatibility issues somehow.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; BR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mail=
to:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 8.53<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli;=
 Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIET=
RO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the=
 OTN OSPF draft (support for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I didn't want to allow interoperab=
ility options.&nbsp; I much preferred<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; say that we do signaling in one wa=
y only, using multistage labels.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; These are also needed for signalin=
g within&nbsp; hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Rajan Rao <a href=3D"mailto:=
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]">
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:=
46 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhan=
g; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIET=
RO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Har=
dwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the=
 OTN OSPF draft (support for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; While we are making updates, let u=
s discuss support required in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; link<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; advertisement for single/multi-sta=
ge label options:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Given that there is interest in bo=
th multi-stage label and single-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider in=
clusion of a FLAG to indicate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; what<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This=
 will address some of the issues we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; have<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; discussed in the past relating to =
path computation involving NEs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; different capabilities (inter-op).=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ____________________________________________=
___<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf=
.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ____________________________________________=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<o=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
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--_004_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2BF785730D0DEXNAPtellabsw_--

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  1 07:38:08 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:35:09 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Pietro,

We are talking past each other.  I agree with most of what you have written=
, but it is not applicable to the construct under discussion.  I have been =
trying to explain this since January, but let me try again.  This is the no=
te I was trying to avoid writing the other day when I sent multiple 'privat=
e' emails to the CCAMP mailing list.  Again, my apologies for my sloth.

I would suggest that you read this email and then annotate it line by line =
to indicate what you agree or disagree with and what you do not understand,=
 rather than simply writing another email telling me how ignorant I am.

The construct is a containing hierarchical ODUk LSP which is being used for=
 multi-stage ODUj switching.  This means that within the containing hierarc=
hical ODUk LSP, additional hierarchical LSPs need to be established in orde=
r to provide intermediate context for the ODUj LSPs.  I have been calling t=
hese sub-layer LSPs, because they are only there to provide label support b=
etween the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP and the ODUj LSPs it is being u=
sed to switch and because they have no existence outside the context of the=
 containing hierarchical ODUk LSP.

E.g., if the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP is an ODU3 and the hierarchy =
it supports is ODU1 -> ODU2 -> ODU3, then after the containing hierarchical=
 ODU3 LSP is established, an ODU2 LSP between the same endpoints as the con=
taining hierarchical ODU3 LSP needs to be established in order to allow the=
 containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP to be used for switching ODU1 LSPs.

THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to estab=
lished using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling of the ODUj =
LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on the ODUj signalin=
g message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as many times as necessary=
 in order to understand crux of the discussion.

In our example, the first method would require the signaling of an hierarch=
ical ODU2 LSP between the endpoints of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP=
 prior to the signaling of any ODU1 LSPs between the endpoints of the conta=
ining hierarchical ODU3 LSP.

The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2 LSP to b=
e piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the endpoints of the =
containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the hierarchical ODU2 LSP to=
 be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1 LSP.

This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of which of=
 the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it has the followi=
ng characteristics:

1)  The sub-layer LSPs share fate with the containing hierarchical LSP

2)  It is IMPOSSIBLE to perform protection/restoration of these sub-layer L=
SPs outside the context of the containing hierarchical LSP.  This is becaus=
e the only two nodes that are aware of the existence of these sub-layer LSP=
s are the nodes at either end of the containing hierarchical LSP

3)  Similarly, and for the same reason, OAM for these sub-layer LSPs can on=
ly be done between the endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSPs.  AS A=
N ASIDE, control plane control of OTN OAM in general is in a nascent state =
and this construct has not been considered at all.

4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this constru=
ct.

5)  From a layer network perspective, the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP =
and the ODUj LSPs for which it is being used to switch would be visible BUT=
 the sub-layer LSPs would not be.

AND AGAIN, items 1) through 5) above are INVARIANT REGARDLESS of which of t=
he two methods is selected to establish the sub-layer LSP within the contai=
ning hierarchical ODUk LSP.

FINALLY, the term 'containing hierarchical ODUk LSP' could be replaced with=
 the term 'link' in all of the above text, BUT I don't think multi-stage sw=
itching over links in the core of an OTN link network is viable from a scal=
ability perspective.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:13 AM
> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hello John,
>
> it is not clear which is the meaning of "sub-layer" that you have in
> mind,
> but if we consider ITU-T definitions,  from data plane point of view an
> ODU containing another ODU does not define a sub-layer, it defines
> instead a layer.
>
> ITU-T defines the possibility to protect independently all layers in
> the OTN network architecture as well as in SDH architecture.
> As consequence the possibility to perform protection of all layers has
> to be taken as a requirement for signaling and routing protocols.
>
> Protecting or not intermediate layers is a decision in charge of
> operators and not of SDOs.
>
> Multi-layer networking has been standardized by ITU-T several years
> ago,
> has been applied in field to SDH networks and it has been adopted for
> OTN networks. Multi-layer networking is directly supported by H-LSPs,
> thus
> solutions based on H-LSPs would have low impact on NMS because they are
> consistent with current practice and NMS architectures.
>
> Assigning multi-stage labels is just a way to perform signaling
> in very special cases of multi-layer networks, but it imposes a way of
> working in which intermediate layers pops up when client
> This way of working is very different from what is currently supported
> and thus implies  huge modifications.
>
> Moreover to support the generic requirement stated above, a solution
> based only on H-LSPs has to be supported in any case, so there is no
> reason to impose multi-stage label since day one.
>
> A comment about: " The containing hierarchical LSP with multiple sub-
> layer LSPs, regardless of which of the two proposals being discussed
> for establishing the sub-layer LSPs, has nothing whatever to do with
> layer management."
>
> Signaling is an instrument to put in place LSPs that are managed by NMS
> as belonging to layers. So there is a precise relationship with respect
> to layer management in the sense that signaling protocols are tools
> devoted to implement what is needed for management plane and must not
> provide requirements to management.
>
> Said this, again, I have nothing in contrary to support both solutions
> because I understand very well that in some cases there can be
> processing advantages in using multi-stage labels. I am also convinced,
> for what I said before, that multi-stage label support MUST NOT be
> mandatory.
>
> Pietro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: mercoled=EC 29 giugno 2011 17.53
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Comments inline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:42 AM
> > To: CCAMP
> > Cc: John E Drake; Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); GRANDI,
> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> >
> > Hello Igor,
> >
> > The discussion is all in deciding whether to consider the
> > support of multi-stage label as optional or mandatory.
> >
> > Support of multi-stage labels have consequences that include:
> > 1) the fact that it is not possible to protect intermediate layers
> > either via protection or restoration. This restricts the application
> > field of the concept in such a way that it can be considered an
> > optimization applicable to specific cases.
>
> JD:  As I have said before, for the new construct we are dealing with,
> viz, a containing hierarchical LSP with one or more sub-layer LSPs
> between the same two endpoints, it is not possible to protect the
> individual sub-layer LSPs outside the context of the containing
> hierarchical LSP.
>
> >
> > 2) Heavy impacts on transport network management systems that are
> > currently based on "per layer management" and should work in a very
> > different way.
>
> JD:  The construct defined above is new and management systems will
> have to be modified to understand it.
>
> > Last but not least, the OTN architecture allows explicitly the "per
> > layer"
> > management, that is the reference for transport networks. Every GMPLS
> > implementation has to be consistent with this reference.
>
> JD:  The containing hierarchical LSP with multiple sub-layer LSPs,
> regardless of which of the two proposals being discussed for
> establishing the sub-layer LSPs, has nothing whatever to do with layer
> management.
>
> >
> > In conclusion, the usage of the multi-stage label  should be
> considered
> > as optional and the support should be clearly stated via an
> appropriate
> > advertising.
> >
> > Unfortunately, contrary to  point 3), someone insists in forcing the
> > usage and support of multi-stage labels as mandatory.
> >
> > The point in discussion is all here.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Pietro & Sergio
> >
> >
> > Hi Pietro,
> >
> > You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps
> saying
> > repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
> > 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to
> > network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem
> stupid
> > to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a
> > single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and
> support
> > numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.
> > just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
> >
> > 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification of a
> > new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS
> god-
> > fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control
> the
> > resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
> > 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage
> > provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Hello John,
> >
> > 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private
> > mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is
> > impolite and unprofessional.
> >
> > 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads
> > that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow
> for
> > people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,
> > this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in
> > the mailing list.
> >
> > 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate
> > personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as
> > reported in your mails and snipped below:
> >
> > "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,
> > multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not
> even
> > wrong."
> >
> > " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found
> > them, shall we say, lacking."
> >
> > We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a
> purely
> > technical point of view.
> >
> > Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> That's
> > relativity.
> > (A. Einstein)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of John E Drake
> > Sent: marted=EC 28 giugno 2011 14.13
> > To: CCAMP
> > Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
> > To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
> > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; Ciena -
> > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> BELOTTI,
> > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Fatai,
> >
> > Comments inline.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
> > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
> > > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
> > > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; Ciena
> -
> > > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> > BELOTTI,
> > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
> > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
> >
> > JD:  I will let this pass.
> >
> > >
> > > You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,
> establish
> > > multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that
> > we
> > > described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned
> (eg.,
> > > OAM/protection issues).
> >
> > JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't think
> the
> > one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either
> > interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was
> addressing
> > my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing
> multi-
> > hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues
> > Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue
> > whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I
> > described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.
> >
> > >
> > > In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be
> > > used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.
> > > E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D,
> but
> > B,
> > > C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO
> > ODUj
> > > (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D
> > > through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are
> lots
> > > of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
> >
> > JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply
> > pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt
> latency
> > and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within
> > multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fatai
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
> > > <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > > Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "Rajan
> > Rao"
> > > <rrao@infinera.com>; "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>;
> "Khuzema
> > > Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> > > <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Ashok Kunjidhapatham"
> > > <akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>; "Diego Caviglia"
> > > <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>; "Steve Balls"
> > > <Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"
> <LyOng@Ciena.com>;
> > > <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
> > <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>;
> > > "Li Dan" <huawei.danli@huawei.com>; "Jonathan Hardwick"
> > > <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
> > > <jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
> > > <valli@juniper.net>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >
> > >
> > > Pietro,
> > >
> > > If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-
> stage
> > > muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format,
> which
> > I
> > > believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment
> > using
> > > single-stage muxing is done.
> > >
> > > We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so
> we
> > > are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP
> > > hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
> > explicitly
> > > and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the
> > Path
> > > message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
> > > implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.
> > >
> > > Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
> > efficient
> > > wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not
> want
> > to
> > > do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we will
> > > only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node
> > > advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is
> > to
> > > be accomplished.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
> > > > To: John E Drake
> > > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
> > Steve
> > > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; NSN - Cyril
> > Margaria;
> > > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> Vallinayakam
> > > > Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-
> LSP
> > > > concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something
> > that
> > > > does not exist at all.
> > > > Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.
> > > > Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage
> > > label
> > > > would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy
> implementation
> > > > consequences.
> > > >
> > > > We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can
> > only
> > > be
> > > > used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing)
> and
> > > it
> > > > will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that
> Fatai
> > > > sent a few days ago.
> > > >
> > > > For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage
> > label
> > > > concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
> > > >
> > > > Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > > > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> > hour.
> > > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> > > That's
> > > > relativity.
> > > > (A. Einstein)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
> > > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
> > Steve
> > > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; NSN - Cyril
> > Margaria;
> > > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> Vallinayakam
> > > > Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Pietro,
> > > >
> > > > We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
> > switching
> > > > support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
> > > >
> > > > As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same
> LSP
> > > > endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-
> > > > considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling
> > > > multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> > > > VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > > > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello John,
> > > >
> > > > I understand that you think that the new switching type in
> routing
> > > > should also convey implicitly the information that a
> > > > multi-stage label is supported.
> > > >
> > > > I do not agree with this statement.
> > > > Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are
> possible
> > > (and
> > > > already standard) and the fact the a node supports
> > > > the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
> > > supported.
> > > >
> > > > Pietro
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: venerd=EC 17 giugno 2011 2.09
> > > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele
> Ceccarelli;
> > > > Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO
> (SERGIO);
> > > > Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -
> > Lyndon
> > > > Ong'; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
> Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Pietro,
> > > >
> > > > Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
> > different
> > > > switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means
> > that
> > > we
> > > > get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I
> am
> > > > proposing that we use multistage.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
> > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;
> > Khuzema
> > > > Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
> > > > Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I  agree with Daniele' statement.
> > > >
> > > > in my mind this means that single stage label support is implicit
> > and
> > > > that
> > > > multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly
> > > > declares the support.
> > > >
> > > > Pietro
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > > > Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > > > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> > hour.
> > > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> > > That's
> > > > relativity.
> > > > (A. Einstein)
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
> > > > Sent: gioved=EC 16 giugno 2011 15.48
> > > > To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > BELOTTI,
> > > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> > > (PIETRO
> > > > VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
> > > >
> > > > Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to support
> > > > single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe
> that
> > as
> > > > per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
> > > >
> > > > An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told
> > not
> > > to
> > > > deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only
> or
> > > > multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward
> > > > compatibility issues somehow.
> > > >
> > > > BR
> > > > Daniele
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: gioved=EC 16 giugno 2011 8.53
> > > > To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> > > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
> > > 'Steve
> > > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
> > multi-
> > > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> > > > Rajan,
> > > >
> > > > I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much
> preferred
> > to
> > > > say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage
> labels.
> > > > These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
> > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
> > Pithewan;
> > > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> > > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
> > > 'Steve
> > > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
> > multi-
> > > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in
> > link
> > > > advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
> > > >
> > > > Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and
> single-
> > > stage
> > > > with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate
> > what
> > > > the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we
> > have
> > > > discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs
> > with
> > > > different capabilities (inter-op).
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Rajan
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  1 07:50:11 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO	VITTORIO)'" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:46:11 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Jona=
than,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>What I actually said was that stac=
ked hierarchical LSPs, i.e., multiple hierarchical LSPs between the same en=
dpoints, regardless of how they are established, have never been done befor=
e.&nbsp; What I also said was that &nbsp;control plane control of OAM for O=
TN networks in general and for stacked hierarchical LSPs in particular, has=
 not really been addressed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Please see t=
he other email I just sent to the CCAMP mailing list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent fr=
om my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'=
border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><d=
iv style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0i=
n 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sadl=
er, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Frida=
y, July 01, 2011 7:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; 'Igor Bry=
skin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br=
><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-ali=
gn:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>While putt=
ing both into a single document is a simple editorial exercise, it doesn=A1=
=AFt provide any of the architectural guidance required for the multi-layer=
 label case.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As John mentioned in a prev=
ious email, how to handle multi-layer in a single signaling session has not=
 been done before. &nbsp;A solution will address more than just the label f=
ormat =A8C it will also look at OAM trigger/response configuration.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I look forward to seeing the details for more t=
han just a multi-layer label (e.g. OAM config, Protection object handling, =
Bundled link processing).&nbsp; Once this is specified, a real comparison c=
an be performed between the H-LSP approach and the multi-layer label approa=
ch.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4=
DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 201=
1 2:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'John E Drake'; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VIT=
TORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAM=
P] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>OK, Let=A1=AFs converge. <o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I think you will agree that multi-stage labels c=
an only be used for some cases rather than universal cases. &nbsp;Based on =
this example below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage=
 muxing (ie., ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP =
and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2). &nbsp;For these two w=
ays, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can understand=
 that these two ways are better and more efficient than your approach (two =
stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft-</span> <span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Khuzema] to give the flexibility for =
the people to choose what they prefer for multi-stage muxing scenario, eith=
er (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage labels in some cases. We have figu=
red out a perfect unified solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they=
 can choose this approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels,=
 they can just choose single stage + H-LSP. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.n=
et]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=
=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><span l=
ang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>30</span><sp=
an lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 12:13<b=
r><b>To:</b> John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VIT=
TORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAM=
P] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I had one clarification.&nbsp; Mu=
lti-stage labels can be used on links, in which case the =A1=AEcontaining h=
ierarchical LSP=A1=AF is the link=A1=AFs OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more =
efficient than signaling multiple one hop sub-layer LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'>However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common cas=
e, because having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network =
in inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3=
.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:lef=
t'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Fr=
om:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"'> John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><span lang=3DZH-CN s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>30</span><span lang=3DZH-=
CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 11:37<br><b>To:</b=
> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<=
br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left=
:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none=
;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mail=
to:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a> <br><=
b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'I=
gor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CC=
AMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>So, you admit that ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 c=
annot be created directly by multi-stage label approach if there is no hier=
archical ODU3 before ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical O=
DU3 (FA) is already there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Abs=
olutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in an email I sent you an=
d others some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is that you create the cont=
aining hierarchical &nbsp;LSP first and then use it to establish &nbsp;OUDj=
 client &nbsp;LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as needed, with the su=
b-layer LSPs being established using one of the two proposals being discuss=
ed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0=
pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt'>A few points for clarification, even though I follow your t=
hought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:12.0pt'>How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is=
 still H-LSP concept there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Ab=
solutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it, establis=
hes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D, &nbsp;and then *<b>either</b=
>* <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph s=
tyle=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore=
'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'>Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the ODU0 P=
ath message to D *<b>OR</b>*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagra=
ph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists=
]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ig=
nore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage lab=
el for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, t=
he FA should be regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between=
 one-hop FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-ho=
p scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this sentence tha=
t we are trying to make you understood many times).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio and you &nbsp;last week that I didn=A1=
=AFt think multi-stage labels for links (one hop) were interesting or usefu=
l, and that I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multi=
stage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing hierarch=
ical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0p=
t'>If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why it n=
eeds to use two stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not just use the=
 simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)? &nbsp;Please review our slide=
s again to get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing(slide 5).<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; You could, if that branch is =
also supported.&nbsp; In your figure I had mentally edited out the ODU0 -&g=
t; ODU3 branch so that we had an interesting scenario to discuss.</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C=
4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft styl=
e=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@jun=
iper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>29</sp=
an><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5<=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2=
3:39<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (P=
IETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Let=A1=AFs assume we have a containing hie=
rarchical ODU3 between node B and node D over which we want to establish an=
d ODU0.&nbsp; Using the sub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signa=
l a sub-layer ODU2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU=
0.&nbsp; With multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an OD=
U2 multi-stage label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As I have repeated=
ly said, either can be made to work with some non-zero amount of effort, bu=
t my preference is for multi-stage labels, strictly from an efficiency pers=
pective.&nbsp; There isn=A1=AFt enough difference between the two approache=
s to warrant standardizing both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left=
:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none=
;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mail=
to:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a> <br><=
b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'I=
gor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CC=
AMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Hi John,<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper wordi=
ng. Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s discuss tec=
h.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple =
example shown below. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Could you explain how to create ODU0 connecti=
on from Node A to Node E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (=
e.g., traffic parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv mes=
sage? What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or Res=
v message?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><img border=3D0 width=3D926 height=3D226 =
id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.png@01CC37C2.EAAB26D0" alt=3D"ci=
d:image001.png@01CC372D.B2E43CE0"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Th=
anks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-family:"Cour=
ier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Fatai<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br=
>From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org]</a> On Behalf Of John E Drake<br>Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN styl=
e=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-fam=
ily:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=
=C8=D5</span> 6:12<br>To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VIT=
TORIO)<br>Cc: CCAMP<br>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>1)&nbsp;=
 Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical LSPs. (The=
 is the point some people do not seem to understand.)<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>2)&nbsp; It i=
s incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for the establishm=
ent of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage switching.&nbsp; This i=
nvolves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the containing hierarchical LSP =
and the set of sub-layer LSPs which provide context for intermediate stage =
labels, between the same two endpoints.&nbsp; This is a new construct and t=
here are almost certainly details to be worked out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>3)&nbsp; I don=
't think we should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I would prefer that t=
he working group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; From: Igor Bryskin <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]">[=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; Hi Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You may not like John's tone, but emoti=
ons aside, what he keeps saying<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey info=
rmation pertinent to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; network ele=
ment provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem stupid<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (=
when it is sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; single e=
nd-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and support<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; numerous extra CP states, take care of all =
restart implications, etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; just =
to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as iden=
tification of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; new type of netw=
ork resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS god-<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; fathers would agree that they never meant to limit G=
MPLS to control the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; resources de=
scribed in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 3) =
Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; provisioning through the hierarchy of LSP=
s if you choose to do so.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces=
@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43=
 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp m=
ailing list a number of private<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; impolite and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that are each hundreds of lines=
 long and very complicated to follow for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreove=
r,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; this happened after a discuss=
ion from scratch was already started in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 3) You moved from a technical di=
scussion to arrogant and deliberate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reported in your mails and snipped=
 below:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &quot;This shows a complete lack of understanding =
of hierarchical LSP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-stage=
 labels, and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is not even<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &quot; It mi=
ght be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; them, shall we say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a purely=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; Pietro, Sergio and Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; T=
errestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Mai=
l: <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vitt=
orio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and=
 it seems like an hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sit with=
 a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute. That's<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; Sent: marted<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=
=AC</span> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: R=
SVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: =
Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonat=
han Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hardwick; L=
i Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihu=
a@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Lyndon=
 Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan =
Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject:=
 RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:z=
hangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIET=
RO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Marga=
ria; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena =
-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; =
Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERG=
IO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; I guess that you did no=
t review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let this p=
ass.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e., establish<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multi-layers LSP concurrently), b=
ut you did not see the issues that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; described in the slid=
es and the issues that Jonathan mentioned (eg.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; OAM/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm=
 sorry that I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I don't think the<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w=
/o multi-stage labels is either<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was addressing<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; my comments.&nbsp; Rather, I was de=
scribing two ways of establishing multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the =
issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jonathan raised in this c=
ontext are red herrings rather than blue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approach=
es I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; described is used, the issu=
es, if any, would be exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; In addition, we have repeated many times =
that LSP hierarchy must be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; E.g., an ODU0 connection request f=
rom A to E through B, C and D, but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; B,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; C and&nbsp; D (or one=
 of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (ODU=
1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; through LSP hierarchy. This example is =
very simple and there are lots<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; J=
D:&nbsp; Please see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was simply=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; pointing out that multi-stage l=
abels can be used to improve wrt latency<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----=
 Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Fro=
m: &quot;John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrak=
e@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: &=
quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca=
tel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@er=
icsson.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:rrao@infinera.com">rrao@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;;=
 &quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pithewan&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com">kpithewan@infinera.com</a>=
&gt;; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com">se=
rgio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Ashok Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akunji=
dhapatham@infinera.com">akunjidhapatham@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Diego C=
aviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com">diego.caviglia@ericsson.com</a>&gt;=
; &quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com">Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com=
</a>&gt;; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:LyOng@Ciena.=
com">LyOng@Ciena.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; =
&quot;NSN - Cyril Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com">cyril.margaria@nsn.com</a>&g=
t;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &quot;Li Dan&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com">huawei.danli@huawei.com</a>&gt;;=
 &quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com">Jonathan.Hardwi=
ck@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jonathan.sadler=
@tellabs.com">jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Vallinayakam Somas=
undaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:valli@juniper.net">valli@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage =
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; If we are talking about the establish=
ment of LSPs using single-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format, which<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establ=
ishment<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; using<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; single-stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so we<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; are breaking new ground and=
 we have two choices, either use LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer informatio=
n within the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; message for the ODUj such that the sub-la=
yers are established<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; implic=
itly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing=
 I do not want<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; do is to say that both are supported.&nbs=
p; If we can agree that we will<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; advertises multi-stage suppor=
t in routing, we know how signaling is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; be accomplished.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailt=
o:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]">[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithew=
an;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (S=
ERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ba=
lls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zt=
e.com.cn</a>; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Margar=
ia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan H=
ardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VI=
TTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: R=
SVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; It seems as though you consider on the same =
level something (H-LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; does not exist at all.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; Operators are used to managed their CP network together wi=
th NMS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the NM=
S work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy implementati=
on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; consequences.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; We should also keep in mind that multi-stage labe=
l approach can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; only<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage mu=
xing) and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; it<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; will bring some management issues. P=
lease see the slides that Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; sent a few days ago.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; For both thes=
e reasons the &quot;optional&quot; condition of multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Pietro, Sergio, Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolut=
ion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vim=
ercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +3=
9 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: <=
a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio=
.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove f=
or a minute, and it seems like an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pre=
tty girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PI=
ETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Dan=
iele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjid=
hapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Steve<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; NSN - =
Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - J=
onathan Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Su=
bject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; We can certainly say that a node=
 that advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; swit=
ching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; support in routi=
ng MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; As I s=
aid before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same LSP<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; endpoints to establish intermediate=
 switching stages seems ill-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multistage LSPs seems lik=
e a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jun 17, =
2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:piet=
ro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello John,<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I understand that you think that the new switching =
type in routing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; should=
 also convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage label is supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; I do not agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage l=
abels are possible<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (and<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; already standard) and the=
 fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a=
 href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a=
><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: venerd<span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (=
SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ashok Kunjidh=
apatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; Ong'; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=
>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jo=
nathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Va=
llinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Actually we are already cov=
ered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; s=
witching type, which is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This means<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; get t=
o define the signaling used for this switching type, and I am<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; proposing that we use multistage.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro_vittori=
o.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]">[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent=
.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursd=
ay, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatha=
m; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia; 'St=
eve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan';=
 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I&nbsp; agree with Danie=
le' statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; in my mind this means that si=
ngle stage label support is implicit<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage labels should not =
be used unless a machine explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; declares the support.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Luce=
nt Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; T=
el: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; M=
ail: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailt=
o:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alc=
atel-">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi=
@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems l=
ike an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and i=
t seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli <a href=3D"mailto=
:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]">[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@erics=
son.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gio=
ved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 1=
5.48<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake;=
 Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; SE=
RGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lynd=
on Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&=
lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'T=
ellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasunda=
ram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Starting a new t=
hread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; As=
suming we still have not decided whether we're going to support<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; single stage only, multi stage on=
ly or both of them i believe that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; per OSPF we need =
to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; An imple=
mentation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; deprecate) is sin=
gle stage based, so in case of multi stage only or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage + single stage we should be able=
 to cover backward<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; com=
patibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BR<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.n=
et]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC=
</span> 16 giugno 2011 8.53<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)=
'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cma=
ilto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=
</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draf=
t (support for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; I didn't want to allow interoperability options.&nbsp; I much=
 preferred<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; say that we do signaling in one way only=
, using multistage labels.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; These are also needed for signaling within&nbsp; hierarchical LSPs.<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; From: Rajan Rao <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]">[mai=
lto:rrao@infinera.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; K=
huzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kun=
jidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRAND=
I, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihu=
a@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'N=
SN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; =
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support=
 for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; While we are making u=
pdates, let us discuss support required in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; advert=
isement for single/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and single-<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FL=
AG to indicate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; what<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This=
 will address some of the issues we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; have<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; discussed in =
the past relating to path computation involving NEs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; different capabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thank=
s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ______________________________________________=
_<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@iet=
f.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cca=
mp</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; _________________________=
______________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP mai=
ling list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAM=
P@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <=
a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>_________=
______________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a href=3D"mailt=
o:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;fon=
t-family:SimSun'><br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
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ed recipient, or an employee<br>or agent responsible for delivering this me=
ssage to the<br>intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reprod=
uction,<br>dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly<=
br>prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,<br>please =
notify us immediately by replying to the message and<br>deleting it from yo=
ur computer. Thank you. Tellabs<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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--_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A69778EMBX01HQjnprn_--

--_004_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A69778EMBX01HQjnprn_
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  1 07:53:40 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO	VITTORIO)'" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:51:06 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fata=
i,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Please see the email I just sent to t=
he CCAMP &nbsp;mailing list in response to Pietro=A1=AFs email.&nbsp; I thi=
nk it also addresses the points in your email, below, and I would appreciat=
e a line-by-line analysis of it by you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:=
left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;bor=
der-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'bor=
der:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang [mailt=
o:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM<=
br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETR=
O VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMso=
Normal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi John,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>OK, Let=A1=AFs converge. <o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'>I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be u=
sed for some cases rather than universal cases. &nbsp;Based on this example=
 below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ie.=
, ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP and then use=
 one single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2). &nbsp;For these two ways, there i=
s no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can understand that these =
two ways are better and more efficient than your approach (two stages (ODU0=
-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In ad=
dition, we are merging our drafts with [draft-</span> <span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Khuzema] to give the flexibility for the people t=
o choose what they prefer for multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single s=
tage + H-LSP) or multi-stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a pe=
rfect unified solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose =
this approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can ju=
st choose single stage + H-LSP. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:lef=
t'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Fr=
om:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"'> John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><span lang=3DZH-CN s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>30</span><span lang=3DZH-=
CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 12:13<br><b>To:</b=
> John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIET=
RO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN=
 single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I had one clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage l=
abels can be used on links, in which case the =A1=AEcontaining hierarchical=
 LSP=A1=AF is the link=A1=AFs OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient t=
han signaling multiple one hop sub-layer LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because =
having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in inherent=
ly less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Jo=
hn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dl=
eft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><d=
iv style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0i=
n 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John=
 E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juni=
per.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>30</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 11:37<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang=
; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b>=
 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid bl=
ue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-t=
op:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailt=
o:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a> <br><b>Sent:</=
b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Brysk=
in'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><=
b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align=
:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>So, you admit that ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be =
created directly by multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical =
ODU3 before ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) =
is already there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&=
nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in an email I sent you and others =
some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is that you create the containing hi=
erarchical &nbsp;LSP first and then use it to establish &nbsp;OUDj client &=
nbsp;LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as needed, with the sub-layer L=
SPs being established using one of the two proposals being discussed.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt'>A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt'>How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-=
LSP concept there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.=
&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it, establishes the O=
DU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D, &nbsp;and then *<b>either</b>* <o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D't=
ext-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span=
 style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </sp=
an></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>C=
reates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the ODU0 Path messa=
ge to D *<b>OR</b>*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=
=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)=
<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'>Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage label for t=
he ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt'>If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA shou=
ld be regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop F=
A and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop scenario=
 rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this sentence that we are t=
rying to make you understood many times).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'>JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio and you &nbsp;last week that I didn=A1=AFt think =
multi-stage labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and that=
 I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multistage hiera=
rchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing hierarchical LSP is=
 between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>If ODU3 =
between B and D is already there based on this example, why it needs to use=
 two stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not just use the simple one=
 stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)? &nbsp;Please review our slides again to =
get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing(slide 5).<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; You could, if that branch is also support=
ed.&nbsp; In your figure I had mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 bran=
ch so that we had an interesting scenario to discuss.</span><span style=3D'=
font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-al=
ign:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'> John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[=
mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-=
CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><span lang=
=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>29</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 23:39<br><=
b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VIT=
TORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN singl=
e stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Let=A1=AFs assume we have a containing hierarchical O=
DU3 between node B and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.&nbs=
p; Using the sub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-lay=
er ODU2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.&nbsp; Wi=
th multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-st=
age label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As I have repeatedly said, ei=
ther can be made to work with some non-zero amount of effort, but my prefer=
ence is for multi-stage labels, strictly from an efficiency perspective.&nb=
sp; There isn=A1=AFt enough difference between the two approaches to warran=
t standardizing both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid bl=
ue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-t=
op:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailt=
o:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a> <br><b>Sent:</=
b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Brysk=
in'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><=
b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align=
:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Agree =
with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper wording. Let<s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s discuss tech.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple example s=
hown below. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from N=
ode A to Node E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., tra=
ffic parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message? Wha=
t action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or Resv message=
?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><img border=3D0 width=3D926 height=3D226 id=3D"Pic=
ture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.png@01CC37C3.A1FCEE40" alt=3D"cid:image00=
1.png@01CC372D.B2E43CE0"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a=
 href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]=
</a> On Behalf Of John E Drake<br>Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimS=
un'>=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</=
span> 6:12<br>To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b=
r>Cc: CCAMP<br>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>1)&nbsp; Multi-sta=
ge labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical LSPs. (The is the po=
int some people do not seem to understand.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>2)&nbsp; It is incorrec=
t to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for the establishment of a h=
ierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage switching.&nbsp; This involves a =
nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the containing hierarchical LSP and the se=
t of sub-layer LSPs which provide context for intermediate stage labels, be=
tween the same two endpoints.&nbsp; This is a new construct and there are a=
lmost certainly details to be worked out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>3)&nbsp; I don't think we=
 should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I would prefer that the working =
group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sent fr=
om my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ----=
-Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Igo=
r Bryskin <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]">[mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: =
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; T=
o: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, =
what he keeps saying<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; repeatedly =
in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information per=
tinent to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; network element provis=
ioning in most efficient way. It does seem stupid<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is =
sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; single end-to-end r=
ound of signaling to do the job), create and support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart imp=
lications, etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; just to be consi=
stent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification o=
f a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; new type of network resource=
s controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS god-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to cont=
rol the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; resources described in e=
arly CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 3) Finally, no =
one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you cho=
ose to do so.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">=
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subj=
ect: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hell=
o John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a =
number of private<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; mails without =
asking the permission to the involved people. This is<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; impolite and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 2) Yo=
u are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and ve=
ry complicated to follow for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; peo=
ple not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; this happened after a discussion from scr=
atch was already started in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the =
mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 3) You moved from a technical discussion to =
arrogant and deliberate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; personal=
 offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reported in your mails and snipped below:<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &quot;This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchi=
cal LSP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-stage labels, and=
 GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is not even<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &quot; It might be more =
precise to say I reviewed your slides and found<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; them, shall we say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; We ho=
pe that from now on the discussion can be continued from a purely<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Pietro, Sergio and Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Piet=
ro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Terrestrial O=
ptics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Alcate=
l-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Tel: =
+39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Mail: <a href=
=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seem=
s like an hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sit with a prett=
y girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute. That's<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@=
ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; Sent: marted<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span=
> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: CCAMP=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN s=
ingle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent fro=
m my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fr=
om: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Thursday,=
 June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: 'Fata=
i Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadl=
er; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; N=
SN - Cyril Margaria; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.co=
m.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Lyndon Ong; St=
eve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Dan=
iele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: RSV=
P OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:zhangfata=
i@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTO=
RIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: Vall=
inayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <a =
href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Ca=
viglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; BE=
LOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khu=
zema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; I guess that you did not review=
 our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let this pass.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; You just=
 see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e., establish<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you d=
id not see the issues that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; we<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; described in the slides and t=
he issues that Jonathan mentioned (eg.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; OAM/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry t=
hat I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I don't think the<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi=
-stage labels is either<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; interest=
ing or common and it was not the case to which I was addressing<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; my comments.&nbsp; Rather, I was describing=
 two ways of establishing multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the issues<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jonathan raised in this context a=
re red herrings rather than blue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; described is used, the issues, if a=
ny, would be exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP=
 hierarchy must be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; used in =
many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to=
 E through B, C and D, but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; B,<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; C and&nbsp; D (or one of them=
 ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (ODU1 or ODU=
2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; through LSP hierarchy. This example is very sim=
ple and there are lots<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; of t=
ransforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp;=
 Please see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was simply<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; pointing out that multi-stage labels ca=
n be used to improve wrt latency<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ----- Origina=
l Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: &quot=
;John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: &quot;GRA=
NDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luce=
nt.com">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.c=
om</a>&gt;; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Rao&quot=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rra=
o@infinera.com">rrao@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;; &quot;K=
huzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pithewan&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com">kpithewan@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &q=
uot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com">sergio.bel=
otti@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Ashok Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akunjidhapatha=
m@infinera.com">akunjidhapatham@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Diego Caviglia&=
quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com">diego.caviglia@ericsson.com</a>&gt;; &quot;St=
eve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com">Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;; =
&quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com">LyOng=
@Ciena.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; &quot;NSN =
- Cyril Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com">cyril.margaria@nsn.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &quot;Li Dan&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com">huawei.danli@huawei.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Jon=
athan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswi=
tch.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.c=
om">jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&qu=
ot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:v=
alli@juniper.net">valli@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi sta=
ge<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; P=
ietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; If we are talking about the establishment of LS=
Ps using single-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; muxin=
g, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format, which<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; using<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; single-stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; We ha=
ve never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so we<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; are breaking new ground and we have t=
wo choices, either use LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within t=
he<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are=
 established<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; implicitly and=
 concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Eith=
er will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do no=
t want<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; do is to say that both are supported.&nbsp; If we=
 can agree that we will<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; onl=
y use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; advertises multi-stage support in rou=
ting, we know how signaling is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; t=
o<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; be accomplished.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent fr=
om my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro=
_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]">[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcate=
l-lucent.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent=
: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); =
Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Cie=
na - Lyndon Ong; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=
</a>; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Margaria;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick;=
 Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; It seems as though you consider on the same level some=
thing (H-LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; concept) =
already used in CP managing multi-layer with something<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; does not exist at all.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the NMS work per=
-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; wo=
uld force NMS to work in another manner with heavy implementation<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; consequences.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach c=
an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing) and<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; will bring some management issues. Please se=
e the slides that Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; sent a few days ago.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; For both these reason=
s the &quot;optional&quot; condition of multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Pietro, Sergio, Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (=
Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 68=
6 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: <a href=
=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a m=
inute, and it seems like an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hour=
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty gi=
rl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (A=
. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO V=
ITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele C=
eccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapath=
am; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Steve<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <=
a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; NSN - Cyril<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonatha=
n Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject:=
 Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pi=
etro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; We can certainly say that a node that =
advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; switching<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; support in routing MUS=
T support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; As I said be=
fore, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; endpoints to establish intermediate switc=
hing stages seems ill-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multistage LSPs seems like a re=
ally Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jun 17, 2011=
, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@a=
lcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_=
vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I understand that you think that the new switching typ=
e in routing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; should al=
so convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage label is supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; I do not agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labe=
ls are possible<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (and<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; already standard) and the fa=
ct the a node supports<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: venerd<span style=
=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIE=
TRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SER=
GIO);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ashok Kunjidhapa=
tham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; O=
ng'; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonat=
han Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Valli=
nayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; S=
ubject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Actually we are already covered=
.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; switc=
hing type, which is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This means<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; get to de=
fine the signaling used for this switching type, and I am<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; proposing that we use multistage.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com]">[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]</=
a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, Jun=
e 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To:=
 Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Dieg=
o<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia; 'Steve Bal=
ls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonat=
han Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Valli=
nayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; S=
ubject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I&nbsp; agree with Daniele' sta=
tement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; in my mind this means that single st=
age label support is implicit<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; an=
d<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage labels should not be used=
 unless a machine explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; declares the support.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolut=
ion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vim=
ercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +3=
9 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:piet=
ro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-">=
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcate=
l-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seem=
s like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; That=
's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli <a href=3D"mailto:[mail=
to:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]">[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.co=
m]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 15.48<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan=
 Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO (=
SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong=
';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mai=
lto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs =
- Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RSVP OTN single =
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Starting a new thread a=
s we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Assuming =
we still have not decided whether we're going to support<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; single stage only, multi stage only or b=
oth of them i believe that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; as<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; per OSPF we need to cons=
ider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; An implementati=
on RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; to<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; deprecate) is single sta=
ge based, so in case of multi stage only or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover=
 backward<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; compatibilit=
y issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BR<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; _____=
___________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> =
16 giugno 2011 8.53<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To=
: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok=
 Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'G=
RANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.=
xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;=
; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margari=
a'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (suppo=
rt for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; I didn't want to allow interoperability options.&nbsp; I much preferr=
ed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; say that we do signaling in one way only, using =
multistage labels.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; The=
se are also needed for signaling within&nbsp; hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fro=
m: Rajan Rao <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]">[mailto:rrao@inf=
inera.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: W=
ednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VI=
TTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=
">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'J=
onathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; V=
allinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; While we are making updates, let us=
 discuss support required in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lin=
k<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; advertisement for si=
ngle/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Given that t=
here is interest in both multi-stage label and single-<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; what<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This will address =
some of the issues we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; have<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; discussed in the past relat=
ing to path computation involving NEs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; different c=
apabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ________________________________________=
_______<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCA=
MP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"https=
://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>CCAMP mailing=
 list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.or=
g">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a href=3D"http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A69780EMBX01HQjnprn_--

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--_004_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A69780EMBX01HQjnprn_--

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  1 07:58:06 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:52:12 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>What=
 do folks think of the term =A1=AEstacked hierarchical LSPs=A1=AF?&nbsp; I =
think it is pretty evocative.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid bl=
ue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-t=
op:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday,=
 July 01, 2011 7:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> Sadler, Jonathan B.; Fatai Zhang; 'Igo=
r Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAM=
P'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'tex=
t-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Wh=
at I actually said was that stacked hierarchical LSPs, i.e., multiple hiera=
rchical LSPs between the same endpoints, regardless of how they are establi=
shed, have never been done before.&nbsp; What I also said was that &nbsp;co=
ntrol plane control of OAM for OTN networks in general and for stacked hier=
archical LSPs in particular, has not really been addressed.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Please see the other email I just sent to the CCAMP mai=
ling list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;pad=
ding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5=
C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft sty=
le=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tell=
abs.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 01, 2011 7:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fatai=
 Zhang; John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITT=
ORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single=
 stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'>While putting both into a single document is a simple =
editorial exercise, it doesn=A1=AFt provide any of the architectural guidan=
ce required for the multi-layer label case.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>As John mentioned in a previous email, how to handle multi-layer in a=
 single signaling session has not been done before. &nbsp;A solution will a=
ddress more than just the label format =A8C it will also look at OAM trigge=
r/response configuration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I look forward=
 to seeing the details for more than just a multi-layer label (e.g. OAM con=
fig, Protection object handling, Bundled link processing).&nbsp; Once this =
is specified, a real comparison can be performed between the H-LSP approach=
 and the multi-layer label approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Jon=
athan Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'b=
order:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@iet=
f.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br><b=
>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'John E Drake'; 'I=
gor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CC=
AMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>O=
K, Let=A1=AFs converge. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I think you wil=
l agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for some cases rather than=
 universal cases. &nbsp;Based on this example below, we can create ODU3 FA =
LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ie., ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alte=
rnative is to create ODU2 FA LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0=
-&gt;ODU2). &nbsp;For these two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage l=
abels. I think you can understand that these two ways are better and more e=
fficient than your approach (two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-L=
SP).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In addition, we are merging our dra=
fts with [draft-</span> <span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Khuz=
ema] to give the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for =
multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage l=
abels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified solution. If peo=
ple like multi-stage labels, they can choose this approach to use. If peopl=
e do not like multi-stage labels, they can just choose single stage + H-LSP=
. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake <a href=
=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br=
><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'>6</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>30</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 12:13<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; =
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> '=
CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>I had one clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on links, =
in which case the =A1=AEcontaining hierarchical LSP=A1=AF is the link=A1=AF=
s OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling multiple one h=
op sub-layer LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>However, I seriously =
doubt than this will be a common case, because having awareness of individu=
al ODUjs in the core of the network in inherently less scalable than having=
 multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left=
'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;bord=
er-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[=
mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b=
> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSu=
n'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif"'>6</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Si=
mSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'>30</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif"'> 11:37<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, P=
IETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> =
RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dl=
eft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt=
'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0=
pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'=
><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From=
:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f"'> Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:=
zhangfatai@huawei.com]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 P=
M<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIE=
TRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DM=
soNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>So, you adm=
it that ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly by multi-stage la=
bel approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before ODU0 request? because =
you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is already there.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulate=
d this in an email I sent you and others some months back.&nbsp; The basic =
idea is that you create the containing hierarchical &nbsp;LSP first and the=
n use it to establish &nbsp;OUDj client &nbsp;LSPs and their required sub-l=
ayer LSPs as needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of=
 the two proposals being discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>A few points for clarificat=
ion, even though I follow your thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>How to create the ODU3 FA be=
fore ODU0 request? I think it is still H-LSP concept there.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message ar=
rives at B, B holds it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to=
 D, &nbsp;and then *<b>either</b>* <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Ro=
man"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signa=
ling D and then sends the ODU0 Path message to D *<b>OR</b>*<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times Ne=
w Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sends the ODU0 Path message to =
D along with the multi-stage label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>If ODU3 FA betwe=
en B and D is already there, the FA should be regarded as one-hop, because =
there is no difference between one-hop FA and one-hop link. So, this scenar=
io should be treated as one-hop scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay =
attention to this sentence that we are trying to make you understood many t=
imes).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio and you &=
nbsp;last week that I didn=A1=AFt think multi-stage labels for links (one h=
op) were interesting or useful, and that I only considered them useful in t=
he context of multi-hop multistage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling w=
ithin the containing hierarchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it i=
s one hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>If ODU3 between B and D is already there ba=
sed on this example, why it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&g=
t;ODU3), why not just use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)? =
&nbsp;Please review our slides again to get more information about cons of =
multi-stage muxing(slide 5).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; Y=
ou could, if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your figure I had ment=
ally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that we had an interesting sc=
enario to discuss.</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br=
>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'borde=
r:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a> <=
br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif"'>6</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>29</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 23:39<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryski=
n'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b=
>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:=
left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Let=A1=AFs as=
sume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node B and node D over =
which we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using the sub-layer hierarchical=
 LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer ODU2 hierarchical LSP between B =
and D and then signal the ODU0.&nbsp; With multi-stage labels we would sign=
al the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stage label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:#1F497D'>As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some =
non-zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels, str=
ictly from an efficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn=A1=AFt enough differe=
nce between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft=
 style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>S=
ent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div sty=
le=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><=
div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</=
span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'=
> Fatai Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zha=
ngfatai@huawei.com]</a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<b=
r><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=
 VITTORIO)'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN s=
ingle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if=
 there was some improper wording. Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier Ne=
w"'>=A1=AF</span>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Could you clarify your point 1) a =
little more? Here is a simple example shown below. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Could you expl=
ain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node E by multi-stage labe=
ls approach? What information (e.g., traffic parameters, labels) should be =
carried in the Path or Resv message? What action should be taken for Node C=
 when receiving the Path or Resv message?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><img borde=
r=3D0 width=3D926 height=3D226 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.p=
ng@01CC37C3.C99B2480" alt=3D"cid:image001.png@01CC372D.B2E43CE0"><o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@iet=
f.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]</a> On Behalf Of John E Drake<br>=
Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span>6<sp=
an lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH=
-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span> 6:12<br>To: Igor Bryskin; GR=
ANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<br>Cc: CCAMP<br>Subject: Re: [CCAMP=
] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I have a few c=
larifications.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>1)&nbsp; Multi-stage labels apply equally well to mu=
lti-hop hierarchical LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to und=
erstand.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is=
, just works for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports mult=
i-stage switching.&nbsp; This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, t=
he containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which provide =
context for intermediate stage labels, between the same two endpoints.&nbsp=
; This is a new construct and there are almost certainly details to be work=
ed out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>3)&nbsp; I don't think we should standardize both approache=
s.&nbsp; I would prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Igor Bryskin <a href=3D"mailto:[mailt=
o:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]">[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]</a><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=
 VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCA=
MP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single =
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You may n=
ot like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps saying<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; repeatedly in this discussion does make perfe=
ct sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 1) The point of =
CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; network element provisioning in most efficient way. It=
 does seem stupid<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to signal nume=
rous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job)=
, create and support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; numerous ex=
tra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 ye=
ars ago;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 2) Besides, you can thi=
nk of multi-stage label as identification of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the =
GMPLS god-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; fathers would agree t=
hat they never meant to limit GMPLS to control the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot =
orchestrate multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; provisio=
ning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -=
----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETR=
O VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sen=
t: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN sing=
le stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 1) Yo=
u have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; mails without asking the permission to the i=
nvolved people. This is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; impolite=
 and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 2) You are creating spam on the maili=
ng list forwarding four threads<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow for<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; people not involved in the discussi=
on since the beginning. Moreover,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 3=
) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; personal offenses not supported by any s=
ound technical motivation as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; rep=
orted in your mails and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &quot;This shows a =
complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is =
so bad it is not even<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wrong.&quo=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &quot; It might be more precise to say I reviewed your=
 slides and found<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; them, shall we=
 say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; We hope that from now on the discussi=
on can be continued from a purely<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Pietro, Sergio and Daniele<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Put your hand=
 on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems l=
ike a&nbsp; minute. That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; relat=
ivity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 From: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org]</a> On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of John E=
 Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: marted<span style=
=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORI=
O (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: Vallinay=
akam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; SERGIO =
(SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Origin=
al Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: Fatai=
 Zhang <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]">[mailto:zhangfatai=
@huawei.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thur=
sday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; H=
ardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele=
 Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RS=
VP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let this pass.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; You just see the only advantage for the c=
orner case (i.e., establish<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned=
 (eg.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; OAM/protection issue=
s).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough conte=
xt.&nbsp; I don't think the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-=
hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; interesting or common and it was not the =
case to which I was addressing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; m=
y comments.&nbsp; Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing multi-<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hop multi-stage hierarchical LSP=
s.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regar=
dless of which of the two approaches I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; In addi=
tion, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; used in many cases, even though we have m=
ulti-stage label approach.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D, but<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; B,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; C and&nbsp; D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching=
, the HO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be cr=
eated between B and D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; throu=
gh LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are lots<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; of transforms for this example to use=
 LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; Please see above.&nbsp; I comple=
tely agree with you and was simply<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt latency<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and control plane overhead, the =
establishment of ODUj LSPs within<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: &quot;John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VI=
TTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarel=
li@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Rajan<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrao@infinera.com">rrao@infinera=
.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huaw=
ei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pithewan&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kpithewan@in=
finera.com">kpithewan@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&=
quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com">sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&g=
t;; &quot;Ashok Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com">akunjidhapath=
am@infinera.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Diego Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com=
">diego.caviglia@ericsson.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Steve.Balls@metas=
witch.com">Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com">LyOng@Ciena.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.=
com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; &quot;NSN - Cyril Margaria&quot;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cyril.margaria@=
nsn.com">cyril.margaria@nsn.com</a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &quot;Li Dan&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.=
com">huawei.danli@huawei.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Har=
dwick@metaswitch.com">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;; &quot;Tella=
bs - Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com">jonathan.sadler@tellabs.=
com</a>&gt;; &quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:valli@juniper.net">valli@ju=
niper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thu=
rsday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-stage<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; muxing, I think the only thing n=
ecessary is a new label format, which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; believe is a bit ma=
p of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; using<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; single-=
stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; We have never had a situation su=
ch as multi-stage muxing before so we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; hierarchy to establish mult=
iple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; and sequentiall=
y, or include the sub-layer information within the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; m=
essage for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; implicitly and concurrently with the esta=
blishment of the ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Either will work, but it seems =
to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ef=
ficient<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; wrt latency and con=
trol plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do not want<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; d=
o is to say that both are supported.&nbsp; If we can agree that we will<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; only use one method to establi=
sh multi-stage LSPs, then when a node<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling=
 is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; be accomplished.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original M=
essage-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRAN=
DI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lu=
cent.com]">[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]</a><o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:3=
1 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli=
; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego=
 Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <a href=3D=
"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;=
 Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Somasund=
aram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; It see=
ms as though you consider on the same level something (H-LSP<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; concept) already used in CP managing=
 multi-layer with something<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; does not exist at all=
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Operators are used t=
o managed their CP network together with NMS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of =
a multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; label<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; would force NMS to work in an=
other manner with heavy implementation<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; consequences.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; We should als=
o keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; b=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; used in some cases (=
not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing) and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that Fatai<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; sent a few days ago.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; For both these reasons the &quot;optional&quot; co=
ndition of multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; label<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; concept is absolutely man=
datory for us.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro, Sergio, Fatai &amp; D=
aniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.gran=
di@alcatel-lucent.com">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems l=
ike a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; That's<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Orig=
inal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From=
: John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sen=
t: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zh=
ang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.=
com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs =
multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; support in routing MUST support multistage signali=
ng.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exc=
hanges between the same LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; considered and forcing ever=
yone to support two ways of signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, P=
IETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vitto=
rio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent=
.com</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I underst=
and that you think that the new switching type in routing<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; should also convey implicitly the infor=
mation that a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-st=
age label is supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I do not agree with =
this statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Implem=
entations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are possible<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; already standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the new switching type is not=
 enough to clearly tell what is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: venerd<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A8=AC</span> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccare=
lli;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai =
Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve=
 Balls'; 'Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ong'; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xi=
hua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jo=
nathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single =
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; Actually we are already covered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisem=
ents use a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; different<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching type, which is also car=
ried in signaling.&nbsp; This means<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; get to define the signaling used for =
this switching type, and I am<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; proposing that we use multistage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Th=
anks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Se=
nt from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTO=
RIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
<a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]">[mail=
to:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E =
Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; K=
huzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pithewan; BELOT=
TI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xi=
hua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jo=
nathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single =
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; I&nbsp; agree with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; in my mind this means that single stage label support is implici=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; declares the support.=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pietro_vi=
ttorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luc=
ent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-">pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel=
-</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:pietro_vi=
ttorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a=
 hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Si=
t with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ______________=
__________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fro=
m: Daniele Ceccarelli <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson=
.com]">[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Cour=
ier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 15.48<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pi=
thewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham=
; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (=
PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO); Dieg=
o Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&g=
t;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Marga=
ria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signali=
ng...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Assuming we still have not decided whe=
ther we're going to support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe that<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've =
explicitly been told<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; not<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi=
 stage only or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-s=
tage + single stage we should be able to cover backward<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; BR<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]">[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]</a><o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=
=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 8.53<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarell=
i; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=
 VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Cien=
a - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte=
.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwi=
ck'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sa=
dler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam So=
masundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE=
: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I didn't want to allow =
interoperability options.&nbsp; I much preferred<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; sa=
y that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage labels.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; These are also needed for signal=
ing within&nbsp; hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent fro=
m my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Rajan Rao <a href=3D"mailt=
o:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]">[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]</a><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46=
 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccar=
elli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'BE=
LOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Di=
ego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong'=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn">fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mail=
to:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -=
 Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest versio=
n of the OTN OSPF draft (support for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs S=
ingle Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; advertisement for single/multi-stage label option=
s:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Given that there is interest in both mult=
i-stage label and single-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; s=
tage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; with H-LSPs, we s=
hould consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; what<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; th=
e link is capable of.&nbsp; This will address some of the issues we<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; have<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; discussed in the past relating to path computation invol=
ving NEs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; different capabilities (inter-op).<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; _______________=
________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><br></span><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>The information contained in this message may be priv=
ileged<br>and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader<br>=
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee<br>or agent r=
esponsible for delivering this message to the<br>intended recipient, you ar=
e hereby notified that any reproduction,<br>dissemination or distribution o=
f this communication is strictly<br>prohibited. If you have received this c=
ommunication in error,<br>please notify us immediately by replying to the m=
essage and<br>deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs<br>=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>=

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Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:16:06 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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John/All
	I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
first agreeing on the requirements.)

So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
requirement is:

REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
across a particular physical or logical link/interface.

  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.

So two questions for the WG:

1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
   If not, what's wrong/missing?

2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
2A) A real requirement?
2B) A complete non-goal?
2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?

I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
reaching closure on this discussion.

Lou

On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
> discussion.
> 

From kpithewan@infinera.com  Fri Jul  1 08:43:48 2011
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From: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: "'lberger@labn.net'" <lberger@labn.net>, "'jdrake@juniper.net'" <jdrake@juniper.net>, "'ccamp@ietf.org'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Lou,

your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is impor=
tant. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explicit=
.

Thanks
Khuzema


----- Original Message -----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM=0A=
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

John/All
	I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
first agreeing on the requirements.)

So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
requirement is:

REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
across a particular physical or logical link/interface.

  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.

So two questions for the WG:

1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
   If not, what's wrong/missing?

2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
2A) A real requirement?
2B) A complete non-goal?
2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?

I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
reaching closure on this discussion.

Lou

On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
> discussion.
>=20
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Fri Jul  1 08:48:41 2011
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Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:47:33 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, 'John E Drake' <jdrake@juniper.net>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO	VITTORIO)'" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Fri Jul  1 09:34:47 2011
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Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 00:34:30 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, lberger@labn.net, jdrake@juniper.net, ccamp@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi Khuzema and Lou,

I would like to describe the REQ as follows:

Signaling shall provide a mechanism to create a particular ODUj service through one or more than one stages across a particular physical or logical link/interface.




Fatai

Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: <lberger@labn.net>; <jdrake@juniper.net>; <ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage


> Lou,
> 
> your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is important. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explicit.
> 
> Thanks
> Khuzema
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> John/All
> I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
> first agreeing on the requirements.)
> 
> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
> requirement is:
> 
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> 
>  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
> 
> So two questions for the WG:
> 
> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>   If not, what's wrong/missing?
> 
> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> 2A) A real requirement?
> 2B) A complete non-goal?
> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
> 
> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
> reaching closure on this discussion.
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>> discussion.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
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> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: "'ccamp@ietf.org'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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So you are saying:
2A) YES
2B) NO
2C) NO

Right?

Lou

On 7/1/2011 11:43 AM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is important. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explicit.
> 
> Thanks
> Khuzema
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> John/All
> 	I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
> first agreeing on the requirements.)
> 
> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
> requirement is:
> 
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> 
>   Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
> 
> So two questions for the WG:
> 
> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>    If not, what's wrong/missing?
> 
> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> 2A) A real requirement?
> 2B) A complete non-goal?
> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
> 
> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
> reaching closure on this discussion.
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>> discussion.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From lberger@labn.net  Fri Jul  1 09:59:47 2011
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Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 12:59:47 -0400
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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So you are saying:
2A) YES
2B) NO
2C) NO

Right?  Somehow, I think not...

Lou

On 7/1/2011 12:34 PM, Fatai Zhang wrote:
> Hi Khuzema and Lou,
> 
> I would like to describe the REQ as follows:
> 
> Signaling shall provide a mechanism to create a particular ODUj service through one or more than one stages across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
> To: <lberger@labn.net>; <jdrake@juniper.net>; <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> 
>> Lou,
>>
>> your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is important. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explicit.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Khuzema
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
>> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> John/All
>> I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
>> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
>> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
>> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
>> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>>
>> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
>> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
>> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
>> requirement is:
>>
>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
>> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>>
>>  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>>
>> So two questions for the WG:
>>
>> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>>   If not, what's wrong/missing?
>>
>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>> 2A) A real requirement?
>> 2B) A complete non-goal?
>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>>
>> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
>> reaching closure on this discussion.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>>> discussion.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From kpithewan@infinera.com  Fri Jul  1 10:15:11 2011
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From: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: "'lberger@labn.net'" <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Right. Because using multiple single hop H-LSPs in that scenario is overkil=
l.

Thanks
Khuzema


----- Original Message -----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 09:59 AM=0A=
To: Khuzema Pithewan
Cc: 'jdrake@juniper.net' <jdrake@juniper.net>; 'ccamp@ietf.org' <ccamp@ietf=
.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

So you are saying:
2A) YES
2B) NO
2C) NO

Right?

Lou

On 7/1/2011 11:43 AM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> Lou,
>=20
> your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is imp=
ortant. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explic=
it.
>=20
> Thanks
> Khuzema
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
> John/All
> 	I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>=20
> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
> requirement is:
>=20
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>=20
>   Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>=20
> So two questions for the WG:
>=20
> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>    If not, what's wrong/missing?
>=20
> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> 2A) A real requirement?
> 2B) A complete non-goal?
> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>=20
> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
> reaching closure on this discussion.
>=20
> Lou
>=20
> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>> discussion.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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Subject: [CCAMP] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sun-ccamp-gmpls-perf-mib-00.txt
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All,

We have uploaded a new draft into the IETF repository.

This draft defines management information base (mib) for performances of
provisioning LSPs in GMPLS networks. It is the result of a discussion
during the WGLC of ietf-ccamp-lsp-dppm (RFC 5814).

This work can be seen as a continuation of the work in RFC 5814 and
ietf-ccamp-dpm.

All comments are welcome.

Best regards,
Weiqiang

On 7/2/11 10:14 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
wrote:

>A new version of I-D, draft-sun-ccamp-gmpls-perf-mib-00.txt has been
>successfully submitted by Weiqiang Sun and posted to the IETF repository.
>
>Filename:	 draft-sun-ccamp-gmpls-perf-mib
>Revision:	 00
>Title:		 Label Switched Path (LSP) Provisioning Performance Management
>Information Base for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) / MPLS-TE networks
>Creation date:	 2011-07-02
>WG ID:		 Individual Submission
>Number of pages: 16
>
>Abstract:
>   This memo defines Management Information Bases (MIBs) for
>   performances of provisioning Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in
>   Generalized MPLS or MPLS-TE networks.
>
>   When Generalized MPLS/MPLS-TE is used to provision LSPs, it is useful
>   to record the performance of the provisioning process, such as the
>   delay in creating and deleting the LSPs.  The managed information may
>   be retrieved by the Management System and visualized on the GUI, so
>   that the performance of dynamic provisioning may be monitored in a
>   timely manner.
>
>   This work is a continuation of the work in [RFC5814] and
>   [I-D.ietf-ccamp-dpm], where the provisioning performance values are
>   obtained through active measurements.
>
>                  
>        
>
>
>The IETF Secretariat



From jdrake@juniper.net  Sat Jul  2 03:43:04 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 03:36:42 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Lou,

It's a very nice requirement but it does not serve to distinguish between t=
he two proposals;  they both accomplish this.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:16 AM
> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
> John/All
> 	I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you
> refer
> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>=20
> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key
> requirement
> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
> requirement is:
>=20
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
> service
> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>=20
>   Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>=20
> So two questions for the WG:
>=20
> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>    If not, what's wrong/missing?
>=20
> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> 2A) A real requirement?
> 2B) A complete non-goal?
> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>=20
> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical
> for
> reaching closure on this discussion.
>=20
> Lou
>=20
> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> > THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
> > established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
> > of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
> > the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
> > many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
> > discussion.
> >

From jdrake@juniper.net  Sat Jul  2 03:43:09 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 03:37:57 -0700
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Fatai,

That's also a nice requirement, but again, it does not serve to distinguish=
 between the two.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 9:35 AM
> To: Khuzema Pithewan; lberger@labn.net; John E Drake; ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
> Hi Khuzema and Lou,
>=20
> I would like to describe the REQ as follows:
>=20
> Signaling shall provide a mechanism to create a particular ODUj service
> through one or more than one stages across a particular physical or
> logical link/interface.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Fatai
>=20
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
> To: <lberger@labn.net>; <jdrake@juniper.net>; <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
>=20
> > Lou,
> >
> > your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is
> important. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more
> explicit.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Khuzema
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
> > To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > John/All
> > I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
> > to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
> > particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
> > may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
> > first agreeing on the requirements.)
> >
> > So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key
> requirement
> > that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
> > correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the
> unaddressed
> > requirement is:
> >
> > REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> > message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
> service
> > across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> >
> >  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
> >
> > So two questions for the WG:
> >
> > 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
> >   If not, what's wrong/missing?
> >
> > 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> > 2A) A real requirement?
> > 2B) A complete non-goal?
> > 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
> >
> > I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical
> for
> > reaching closure on this discussion.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> > On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are
> to
> >> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
> >> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed
> on
> >> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
> >> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
> >> discussion.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From lberger@labn.net  Sat Jul  2 06:06:09 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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okay, I thought *stages* was sufficient, but John's right that stages is
1 on more and this question was only about N>1 stages.  so let's
substitute s/the/multiple and we have:

REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
message, multiple ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
service across a particular physical or logical link/interface.

and (added 2D):
>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)

So far we have one yes on 2A. (From Khuzema)

Lou


On 7/2/2011 6:36 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> It's a very nice requirement but it does not serve to distinguish
> between the two proposals; they both accomplish this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:16 AM
>> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> John/All
>> 	I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you
>> refer
>> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
>> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
>> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
>> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>>
>> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key
>> requirement
>> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
>> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
>> requirement is:
>>
>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
>> service
>> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>>
>>   Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>>
>> So two questions for the WG:
>>
>> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>>    If not, what's wrong/missing?
>>
>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>> 2A) A real requirement?
>> 2B) A complete non-goal?
>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>>
>> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical
>> for
>> reaching closure on this discussion.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>>> discussion.
>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

From jdrake@juniper.net  Sat Jul  2 09:08:54 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 09:07:11 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Lou,

I'm sorry but my point was that as I read the requirement, both =20
proposals would meet it.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:06 AM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

> okay, I thought *stages* was sufficient, but John's right that =20
> stages is
> 1 on more and this question was only about N>1 stages.  so let's
> substitute s/the/multiple and we have:
>
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, multiple ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
> service across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>
> and (added 2D):
>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
>>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)
>
> So far we have one yes on 2A. (From Khuzema)
>
> Lou
>
>
> On 7/2/2011 6:36 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> Lou,
>>
>> It's a very nice requirement but it does not serve to distinguish
>> between the two proposals; they both accomplish this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:16 AM
>>> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> John/All
>>>    I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you
>>> refer
>>> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context =20
>>> of a
>>> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms =20
>>> that
>>> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them =20
>>> without
>>> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>>>
>>> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key
>>> requirement
>>> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
>>> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the =20
>>> unaddressed
>>> requirement is:
>>>
>>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>>> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
>>> service
>>> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>>>
>>>  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>>>
>>> So two questions for the WG:
>>>
>>> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>>>   If not, what's wrong/missing?
>>>
>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>> 2A) A real requirement?
>>> 2B) A complete non-goal?
>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>>>
>>> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical
>>> for
>>> reaching closure on this discussion.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs =20
>>>> are to
>>>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>>>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-=20
>>>> backed on
>>>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence =20
>>>> as
>>>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>>>> discussion.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Sat Jul  2 17:53:34 2011
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 08:53:30 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Lou,

I think requirements should not be based on some  specific solution.

I am not a English speaker, but I think your substitute should be correct. 

Could you permit me to describe the REQ as follows?

Signaling shall provide a mechanism to create a particular ODUj service through ODUk stages across a particular physical or logical link/interface.


Fatai

Thanks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>
To: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage


> okay, I thought *stages* was sufficient, but John's right that stages is
> 1 on more and this question was only about N>1 stages.  so let's
> substitute s/the/multiple and we have:
> 
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, multiple ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
> service across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> 
> and (added 2D):
>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
>>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)
> 
> So far we have one yes on 2A. (From Khuzema)
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> On 7/2/2011 6:36 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> Lou,
>> 
>> It's a very nice requirement but it does not serve to distinguish
>> between the two proposals; they both accomplish this.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> John
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:16 AM
>>> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> John/All
>>> I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you
>>> refer
>>> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
>>> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
>>> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
>>> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>>>
>>> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key
>>> requirement
>>> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
>>> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
>>> requirement is:
>>>
>>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>>> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
>>> service
>>> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>>>
>>>   Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>>>
>>> So two questions for the WG:
>>>
>>> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>>>    If not, what's wrong/missing?
>>>
>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>> 2A) A real requirement?
>>> 2B) A complete non-goal?
>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>>>
>>> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical
>>> for
>>> reaching closure on this discussion.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>>>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>>>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>>>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>>>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>>>> discussion.
>>>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Sat Jul  2 18:10:38 2011
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:10:08 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:19:27 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO	VITTORIO)'" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Sat Jul  2 18:34:21 2011
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:34:14 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, lberger@labn.net, jdrake@juniper.net, ccamp@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi Khuzema,

Could you provide a scenario to justify this is a real REQ in the reality rather than in someone's mind in theory?



Fatai

Thanks


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: <lberger@labn.net>; <jdrake@juniper.net>; <ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage


> Lou,
> 
> your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is important. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explicit.
> 
> Thanks
> Khuzema
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> John/All
> I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
> first agreeing on the requirements.)
> 
> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
> requirement is:
> 
> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> 
>  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
> 
> So two questions for the WG:
> 
> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>   If not, what's wrong/missing?
> 
> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> 2A) A real requirement?
> 2B) A complete non-goal?
> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
> 
> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
> reaching closure on this discussion.
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>> discussion.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
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From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Sat Jul  2 19:11:03 2011
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:10:52 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi Lou,

Sorry for missing "multiple", :-)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage


> Lou,
> 
> I think requirements should not be based on some  specific solution.
> 
> I am not a English speaker, but I think your substitute should be correct. 
> 
> Could you permit me to describe the REQ as follows?
> 
> Signaling shall provide a mechanism to create a particular ODUj service through ODUk stages across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>
> To: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> 
>> okay, I thought *stages* was sufficient, but John's right that stages is
>> 1 on more and this question was only about N>1 stages.  so let's
>> substitute s/the/multiple and we have:
>> 
>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>> message, multiple ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
>> service across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>> 
>> and (added 2D):
>>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
>>>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
>>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
>> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)
>> 
>> So far we have one yes on 2A. (From Khuzema)
>> 
>> Lou
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/2/2011 6:36 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Lou,
>>> 
>>> It's a very nice requirement but it does not serve to distinguish
>>> between the two proposals; they both accomplish this.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> John
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 8:16 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>
>>>> John/All
>>>> I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you
>>>> refer
>>>> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
>>>> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
>>>> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
>>>> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>>>>
>>>> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key
>>>> requirement
>>>> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
>>>> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
>>>> requirement is:
>>>>
>>>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>>>> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj
>>>> service
>>>> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>>>>
>>>>   Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>>>>
>>>> So two questions for the WG:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>>>>    If not, what's wrong/missing?
>>>>
>>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>>> 2A) A real requirement?
>>>> 2B) A complete non-goal?
>>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>>>>
>>>> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical
>>>> for
>>>> reaching closure on this discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>>>>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>>>>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>>>>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>>>>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Sun Jul  3 06:25:48 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 06:23:08 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From lberger@labn.net  Sun Jul  3 08:49:55 2011
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:49:52 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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So John,
	From my list:
2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)

Are you a "yes" in 2C or 2D?

Lou

PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...

On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Fatai,
> 
> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about using 'intermediate switching stage
> LSP'?
> 
> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second paragraph.  I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method, either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establish intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no reason to support both.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>> wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?
> 
> If not, I would like to step further to make something explicit.
> 
> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough resource on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3 termination, how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?
> 
> Could you explain a little more?
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> Fatai,
> 
> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in response to Pietroâ€™s email.  I think it also addresses the points in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analysis of it by you.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> OK, Letâ€™s converge.
> 
> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For these two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can understand that these two ways are better and more efficient than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).
> 
> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to give the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can just choose single stage + H-LSP.
> 
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ30æ—¥ 12:13
> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> Fatai,
> 
> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on links, in which case the â€˜containing hierarchical LSPâ€™ is the linkâ€™s OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling multiple one hop sub-layer LSPs.
> 
> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ30æ—¥ 11:37
> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> Fatai,
> 
> Comments inline.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM
> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly by multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is already there.
> 
> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an email I sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that you create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it to establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of the two proposals being discussed.
> 
> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.
> 
> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-LSP concept there.
> 
> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and then *either*
> 
> 
> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*
> 
> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage label for the ODU2 LSP
> 
> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this sentence that we are trying to make you understood many times).
> 
> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didnâ€™t think multi-stage labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and that I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multistage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing hierarchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.
> 
> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not just use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please review our slides again to get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing(slide 5).
> 
> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your figure I had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had an interesting scenario to discuss.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Fatai
> 
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ29æ—¥ 23:39
> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> Fatai,
> 
> Letâ€™s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node B and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the sub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer ODU2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.  With multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stage label.
> 
> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels, strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isnâ€™t enough difference between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> 
> 
> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper wording. Letâ€™s discuss tech.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple example shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message? What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or Resv message?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <image001.png>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ29æ—¥ 6:12
> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> 
> 
> Igor,
> 
> 
> 
> I have a few clarifications.
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)
> 
> 
> 
> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the same two endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost certainly details to be worked out.
> 
> 
> 
> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I would prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>
> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM
> 
>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
> 
>> Cc: CCAMP
> 
>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>
> 
>> Hi Pietro,
> 
>>
> 
>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps saying
> 
>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
> 
>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to
> 
>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem stupid
> 
>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a
> 
>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and support
> 
>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.
> 
>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
> 
>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification of a
> 
>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS god-
> 
>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control the
> 
>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
> 
>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage
> 
>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.
> 
>>
> 
>> Cheers,
> 
>> Igor
> 
>>
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
> 
>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
> 
>> To: John E Drake
> 
>> Cc: CCAMP
> 
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>
> 
>> Hello John,
> 
>>
> 
>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private
> 
>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is
> 
>> impolite and unprofessional.
> 
>>
> 
>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads
> 
>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow for
> 
>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,
> 
>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in
> 
>> the mailing list.
> 
>>
> 
>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate
> 
>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as
> 
>> reported in your mails and snipped below:
> 
>>
> 
>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,
> 
>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not even
> 
>> wrong."
> 
>>
> 
>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found
> 
>> them, shall we say, lacking."
> 
>>
> 
>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a purely
> 
>> technical point of view.
> 
>>
> 
>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
> 
>>
> 
>> ============================================
> 
>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> 
>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> 
>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> 
>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> 
>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> 
>> ============================================
> 
>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> 
>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's
> 
>> relativity.
> 
>> (A. Einstein)
> 
>>
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
> 
>> Of John E Drake
> 
>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 28 giugno 2011 14.13
> 
>> To: CCAMP
> 
>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>
> 
>>
> 
>>
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>
> 
>>
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>> From: John E Drake
> 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
> 
>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> 
>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
> 
>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; Ciena -
> 
>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; BELOTTI,
> 
>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
> 
>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>
> 
>> Fatai,
> 
>>
> 
>> Comments inline.
> 
>>
> 
>> Thanks,
> 
>>
> 
>> John
> 
>>
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>
> 
>>
> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
> 
>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
> 
>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
> 
>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; Ciena -
> 
>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> 
>> BELOTTI,
> 
>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
> 
>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Hi John,
> 
>>>
> 
>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
> 
>>
> 
>> JD:  I will let this pass.
> 
>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e., establish
> 
>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that
> 
>> we
> 
>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned (eg.,
> 
>>> OAM/protection issues).
> 
>>
> 
>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't think the
> 
>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either
> 
>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was addressing
> 
>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing multi-
> 
>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues
> 
>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue
> 
>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I
> 
>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.
> 
>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be
> 
>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.
> 
>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D, but
> 
>> B,
> 
>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO
> 
>> ODUj
> 
>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D
> 
>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are lots
> 
>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
> 
>>
> 
>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply
> 
>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt latency
> 
>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within
> 
>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
> 
>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Fatai
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Thanks
> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
> 
>>> From: "John E Drake" <<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> 
>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
> 
>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> 
>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli" <<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>; "Rajan
> 
>> Rao"
> 
>>> <<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>>; "Fatai Zhang" <<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>; "Khuzema
> 
>>> Pithewan" <<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> 
>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok Kunjidhapatham"
> 
>>> <<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>>; "Diego Caviglia"
> 
>>> <<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>>; "Steve Balls"
> 
>>> <<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>>; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong" <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>>;
> 
>>> <<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>>; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
> 
>> <<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>>;
> 
>>> "Li Dan" <<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>>; "Jonathan Hardwick"
> 
>>> <<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>>; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
> 
>>> <<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>>; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
> 
>>> <<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net>>
> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
> 
>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Pietro,
> 
>>>
> 
>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-stage
> 
>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format, which
> 
>> I
> 
>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment
> 
>> using
> 
>>> single-stage muxing is done.
> 
>>>
> 
>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so we
> 
>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP
> 
>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
> 
>> explicitly
> 
>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the
> 
>> Path
> 
>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
> 
>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
> 
>> efficient
> 
>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not want
> 
>> to
> 
>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we will
> 
>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node
> 
>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is
> 
>> to
> 
>>> be accomplished.
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Thanks,
> 
>>>
> 
>>> John
> 
>>>
> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>>
> 
>>>
> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> 
>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
> 
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
> 
>>>> To: John E Drake
> 
>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> 
>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
> 
>> Steve
> 
>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
> 
>> Margaria;
> 
>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam
> 
>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> 
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> John,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-LSP
> 
>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something
> 
>> that
> 
>>>> does not exist at all.
> 
>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.
> 
>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage
> 
>>> label
> 
>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy implementation
> 
>>>> consequences.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can
> 
>> only
> 
>>> be
> 
>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing) and
> 
>>> it
> 
>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that Fatai
> 
>>>> sent a few days ago.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage
> 
>> label
> 
>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> ============================================
> 
>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> 
>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> 
>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> 
>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> 
>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> 
>>>> ============================================
> 
>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> 
>> hour.
> 
>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> 
>>> That's
> 
>>>> relativity.
> 
>>>> (A. Einstein)
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> 
>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
> 
>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> 
>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> 
>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
> 
>> Steve
> 
>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
> 
>> Margaria;
> 
>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam
> 
>>>> Somasundaram
> 
>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Pietro,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
> 
>> switching
> 
>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same LSP
> 
>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-
> 
>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling
> 
>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> John
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> 
>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> 
>>>> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> 
>> wrote:
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Hello John,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in routing
> 
>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a
> 
>>>> multi-stage label is supported.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> I do not agree with this statement.
> 
>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are possible
> 
>>> (and
> 
>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports
> 
>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
> 
>>> supported.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Pietro
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> ________________________________
> 
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> 
>>>> Sent: venerdÃ¬ 17 giugno 2011 2.09
> 
>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> 
>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO);
> 
>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -
> 
>> Lyndon
> 
>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> 
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> 
>>> Sadler';
> 
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> 
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Pietro,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
> 
>> different
> 
>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means
> 
>> that
> 
>>> we
> 
>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I am
> 
>>>> proposing that we use multistage.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Thanks,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> John
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> 
>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
> 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
> 
>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;
> 
>> Khuzema
> 
>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
> 
>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> 
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> 
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> 
>>> Sadler';
> 
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> 
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Hi all,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is implicit
> 
>> and
> 
>>>> that
> 
>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly
> 
>>>> declares the support.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Pietro
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> ============================================
> 
>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> 
>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> 
>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> 
>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> 
>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> 
>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->
> 
>>>> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> 
>>>> ============================================
> 
>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> 
>> hour.
> 
>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> 
>>> That's
> 
>>>> relativity.
> 
>>>> (A. Einstein)
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> ________________________________
> 
>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>
> 
>>>> Sent: giovedÃ¬ 16 giugno 2011 15.48
> 
>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> 
>> BELOTTI,
> 
>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> 
>>> (PIETRO
> 
>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> 
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> 
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> 
>>> Sadler';
> 
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> 
>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to support
> 
>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe that
> 
>> as
> 
>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told
> 
>> not
> 
>>> to
> 
>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only or
> 
>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward
> 
>>>> compatibility issues somehow.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> BR
> 
>>>> Daniele
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> ________________________________
> 
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> 
>>>> Sent: giovedÃ¬ 16 giugno 2011 8.53
> 
>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> 
>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> 
>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
> 
>>> 'Steve
> 
>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> 
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> 
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> 
>>> Sadler';
> 
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> 
>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
> 
>> multi-
> 
>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> 
>>>> Rajan,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much preferred
> 
>> to
> 
>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage labels.
> 
>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Thanks,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> John
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>
> 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
> 
>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
> 
>> Pithewan;
> 
>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> 
>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
> 
>>> 'Steve
> 
>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> 
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> 
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> 
>>> Sadler';
> 
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> 
>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
> 
>> multi-
> 
>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Hi,
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in
> 
>> link
> 
>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and single-
> 
>>> stage
> 
>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate
> 
>> what
> 
>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we
> 
>> have
> 
>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs
> 
>> with
> 
>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).
> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> Thanks
> 
>>>> Rajan
> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
>> CCAMP mailing list
> 
>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> 
>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
>> CCAMP mailing list
> 
>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> 
>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> CCAMP mailing list
> 
> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> 
> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From lberger@labn.net  Sun Jul  3 08:59:48 2011
Return-Path: <lberger@labn.net>
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Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:59:45 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] Opinions on multiple-stages in a single LSP (WAS: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Fatai,
	I'm not sure this would be useful to *this thread* (although, if you'd
like to justify why it isn't, please feel free.)

I'd really like to keep the focus of *this thread* on where the WG
participants fall on question 2:

2) is REQ (multiple-stages singled in one LSP):
2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)

Thanks,
Lou

PS so far we have 1 2A (Khuzema) and 1 2B (you, by inference).

On 7/2/2011 9:34 PM, Fatai Zhang wrote:
> Hi Khuzema,
> 
> Could you provide a scenario to justify this is a real REQ in the reality rather than in someone's mind in theory?
> 
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
> To: <lberger@labn.net>; <jdrake@juniper.net>; <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> 
>> Lou,
>>
>> your formulation of REQ is correct. The plurality of "ODUk stages" is important. Use of word "one or more than one" ODUk stages would be more explicit.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Khuzema
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 08:16 AM
>> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> John/All
>> I think there's a subtlety in the " crux of the discussion" you refer
>> to.  I think we're debating requirements but only in the context of a
>> particular mechanism.  (There are alternate signaling mechanisms that
>> may make sense, but IMO it doesn't make sense to discuss them without
>> first agreeing on the requirements.)
>>
>> So perhaps we can up level a moment and just discuss the key requirement
>> that is being addressed by multi-stage labels.  If I understand it
>> correctly (Khuzema, please chime in if I get it wrong), the unaddressed
>> requirement is:
>>
>> REQ: Signaling shall provide a mechanism to indicate, in a single
>> message, the ODUk stages to be used to support a particular ODUj service
>> across a particular physical or logical link/interface.
>>
>>  Note that this requirement is limited to a single link/H-LSP.
>>
>> So two questions for the WG:
>>
>> 1) Does REQ accurately reflect the new requirement? (answer Yes/no)
>>   If not, what's wrong/missing?
>>
>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>> 2A) A real requirement?
>> 2B) A complete non-goal?
>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism?
>>
>> I think getting consensus on this at a requirement level is critical for
>> reaching closure on this discussion.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 7/1/2011 10:35 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to
>>> established using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling
>>> of the ODUj LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on
>>> the ODUj signaling message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as
>>> many times as necessary in order to understand crux of the
>>> discussion.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From jdrake@juniper.net  Sun Jul  3 09:19:17 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From lberger@labn.net  Sun Jul  3 10:40:39 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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John,
	I think all understand that the question relates to if there is a
requirement to support signaling multiple stages in a single LSP.

> What do I need to write to make this clear?

If you disagree, please rephrase as you think is sufficient to make the
question clear.

Lou

On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> As I think I have written at least two or three times over the past
> day or so, I don't think the requirement as originally written or as
> revised is useful because both or the two methods under discussion
> will meet it.
> 
> What do I need to write to make this clear?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:
> 
>> So John,
>>        From my list:
>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
>> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)
>>
>> Are you a "yes" in 2C or 2D?
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...
>>
>> On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Fatai,
>>>
>>> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about
>>> using 'intermediate switching stage
>>> LSP'?
>>>
>>> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second paragraph.
>>> I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method,
>>> either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establish
>>> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no
>>> reason to support both.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?
>>>
>>> If not, I would like to step further to make something explicit.
>>>
>>> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough resource
>>> on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if
>>> Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3 termination,
>>> how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?
>>>
>>> Could you explain a little more?
>>>
>>>
>>> Fatai
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> Fatai,
>>>
>>> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in
>>> response to Pietroâ€™s email.  I think it also addresses the points
>>> in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analys
>>> is of it by you.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM
>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO)'
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> OK, Letâ€™s converge.
>>>
>>> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for
>>> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example
>>> below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage
>>> muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA
>>> LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For these
>>> two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you
>>> can understand that these two ways are better and more efficient
>>> than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).
>>>
>>> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to
>>> give the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for
>>> multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-
>>> stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified
>>> solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this
>>> approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can
>>> just choose single stage + H-LSP.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fatai
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ30æ—¥ 12:13
>>> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> Fatai,
>>>
>>> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on links,
>>> in which case the â€˜containing hierarchical LSPâ€™ is the linkâ€™s
>>> OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling multipl
>>> e one hop sub-layer LSPs.
>>>
>>> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because
>>> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in
>>> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage
>>> hierarchical LSPs.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ30æ—¥ 11:37
>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO)'
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> Fatai,
>>>
>>> Comments inline.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM
>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO)'
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly by
>>> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before
>>> ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is
>>> already there.
>>>
>>> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an email I
>>> sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that you
>>> create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it to
>>> establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as
>>> needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of the
>>> two proposals being discussed.
>>>
>>> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.
>>>
>>> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still
>>> H-LSP concept there.
>>>
>>> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds
>>> it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and
>>> then *either*
>>>
>>>
>>> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends
>>> the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*
>>>
>>> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage
>>> label for the ODU2 LSP
>>>
>>> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be
>>> regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop
>>> FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop
>>> scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this
>>> sentence that we are trying to make you understood many times).
>>>
>>> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didnâ€™t think multi-st
>>> age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and tha
>>> t I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multis
>>> tage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing hiera
>>> rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.
>>>
>>> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why
>>> it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not just
>>> use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please review
>>> our slides again to get more information about cons of multi-stage
>>> muxing(slide 5).
>>>
>>> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your figure I
>>> had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had an
>>> interesting scenario to discuss.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Fatai
>>>
>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ29æ—¥ 23:39
>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO)'
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> Fatai,
>>>
>>> Letâ€™s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node B
>>>  and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the s
>>> ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer OD
>>> U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.  Wit
>>> h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2
>>> multi-stage label.
>>>
>>> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-
>>> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels,
>>> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isnâ€™t enough diffe
>>> rence between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM
>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO)'
>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper
>>> wording. Letâ€™s discuss tech.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple
>>> example shown below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node
>>> E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic
>>> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message?
>>> What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or
>>> Resv message?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fatai
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake
>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ29æ—¥ 6:12
>>> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Igor,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a few clarifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical
>>> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works
>>> for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-
>>> stage switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs,
>>> the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which
>>> provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the same two
>>> endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost certainly
>>> details to be worked out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I would
>>> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>
>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM
>>>
>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
>>>
>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Pietro,
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps
>>>> saying
>>>
>>>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
>>>
>>>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to
>>>
>>>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem
>>>> stupid
>>>
>>>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is
>>>> sufficient a
>>>
>>>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and
>>>> support
>>>
>>>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications,
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
>>>
>>>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification
>>>> of a
>>>
>>>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS
>>>> god-
>>>
>>>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to
>>>> control the
>>>
>>>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
>>>
>>>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage
>>>
>>>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>> Igor
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
>>>
>>>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
>>>
>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>
>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello John,
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private
>>>
>>>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is
>>>
>>>> impolite and unprofessional.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads
>>>
>>>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to
>>>> follow for
>>>
>>>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,
>>>
>>>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in
>>>
>>>> the mailing list.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate
>>>
>>>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as
>>>
>>>> reported in your mails and snipped below:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,
>>>
>>>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not
>>>> even
>>>
>>>> wrong."
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found
>>>
>>>> them, shall we say, lacking."
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a
>>>> purely
>>>
>>>> technical point of view.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> ============================================
>>>
>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>>>
>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>>>
>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>>>
>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>>>
>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>
>>>> ============================================
>>>
>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>>>> hour.
>>>
>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>>>> That's
>>>
>>>> relativity.
>>>
>>>> (A. Einstein)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
>>>
>>>> Of John E Drake
>>>
>>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 28 giugno 2011 14.13
>>>
>>>> To: CCAMP
>>>
>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: John E Drake
>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
>>>
>>>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>
>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
>>>
>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>> ; Ciena -
>>>
>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
>>>> BELOTTI,
>>>
>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Fatai,
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Comments inline.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> John
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>>>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
>>>
>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
>>>
>>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
>>>
>>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> ; Ciena -
>>>
>>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
>>>
>>>> BELOTTI,
>>>
>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> JD:  I will let this pass.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,
>>>>> establish
>>>
>>>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that
>>>
>>>> we
>>>
>>>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned
>>>>> (eg.,
>>>
>>>>> OAM/protection issues).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't
>>>> think the
>>>
>>>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is
>>>> either
>>>
>>>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was
>>>> addressing
>>>
>>>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing
>>>> multi-
>>>
>>>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues
>>>
>>>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue
>>>
>>>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I
>>>
>>>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be
>>>
>>>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.
>>>
>>>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D,
>>>>> but
>>>
>>>> B,
>>>
>>>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO
>>>
>>>> ODUj
>>>
>>>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D
>>>
>>>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are
>>>>> lots
>>>
>>>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply
>>>
>>>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt
>>>> latency
>>>
>>>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within
>>>
>>>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>>> From: "John E Drake"
>>>>> <<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>> lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>>>> <<m
>>>>> ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@
>>>>> ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>> ; "Rajan
>>>
>>>> Rao"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com
>>>>>>> ; "Fatai Zhang"
>>>>> <<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>>>>>> ; "Khuzema
>>>
>>>>> Pithewan" <<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com
>>>>>>> ; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>>>> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok
>>>>> Kunjidhapatham"
>>>
>>>>> <<m
>>>>> ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com
>>>>>>> ; "Diego Caviglia"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com
>>>>>>> ; "Steve Balls"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com
>>>>>>> ; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong" <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com
>>>>>>> ;
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>> ; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
>>>
>>>> <<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com
>>>>>> ;
>>>
>>>>> "Li Dan" <<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com
>>>>>>> ; "Jonathan Hardwick"
>>>
>>>>> <<m
>>>>> ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@
>>>>> metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com
>>>>>>> ; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com
>>>>>>> ; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
>>>
>>>>> <<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
>>>
>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Pietro,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-
>>>>> stage
>>>
>>>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format,
>>>>> which
>>>
>>>> I
>>>
>>>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment
>>>
>>>> using
>>>
>>>>> single-stage muxing is done.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before
>>>>> so we
>>>
>>>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP
>>>
>>>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
>>>
>>>> explicitly
>>>
>>>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the
>>>
>>>> Path
>>>
>>>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
>>>
>>>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
>>>
>>>> efficient
>>>
>>>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not
>>>>> want
>>>
>>>> to
>>>
>>>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we will
>>>
>>>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node
>>>
>>>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is
>>>
>>>> to
>>>
>>>>> be accomplished.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> John
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
>>>
>>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>
>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>>>
>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
>>>
>>>> Margaria;
>>>
>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam
>>>
>>>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> John,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-LSP
>>>
>>>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something
>>>
>>>> that
>>>
>>>>>> does not exist at all.
>>>
>>>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.
>>>
>>>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage
>>>
>>>>> label
>>>
>>>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy
>>>>>> implementation
>>>
>>>>>> consequences.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can
>>>
>>>> only
>>>
>>>>> be
>>>
>>>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing)
>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>>> it
>>>
>>>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that
>>>>>> Fatai
>>>
>>>>>> sent a few days ago.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage
>>>
>>>> label
>>>
>>>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ============================================
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>>>
>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>>>
>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>>>
>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>>>
>>>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>
>>>>>> ============================================
>>>
>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>>>
>>>> hour.
>>>
>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>>>
>>>>> That's
>>>
>>>>>> relativity.
>>>
>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
>>>
>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>
>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>>>
>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
>>>
>>>> Margaria;
>>>
>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam
>>>
>>>>>> Somasundaram
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
>>>
>>>> switching
>>>
>>>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same
>>>>>> LSP
>>>
>>>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-
>>>
>>>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling
>>>
>>>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>
>>>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>
>>>>>> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Hello John,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in routing
>>>
>>>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a
>>>
>>>>>> multi-stage label is supported.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I do not agree with this statement.
>>>
>>>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are possible
>>>
>>>>> (and
>>>
>>>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports
>>>
>>>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
>>>
>>>>> supported.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: venerdÃ¬ 17 giugno 2011 2.09
>>>
>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>>>
>>>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>>>>> (SERGIO);
>>>
>>>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -
>>>
>>>> Lyndon
>>>
>>>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>> Cyril
>>>
>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>
>>>>> Sadler';
>>>
>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
>>>
>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means
>>>
>>>> that
>>>
>>>>> we
>>>
>>>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I am
>>>
>>>>>> proposing that we use multistage.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
>>>
>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;
>>>
>>>> Khuzema
>>>
>>>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
>>>
>>>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>> Cyril
>>>
>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>
>>>>> Sadler';
>>>
>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is implicit
>>>
>>>> and
>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>
>>>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly
>>>
>>>>>> declares the support.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ============================================
>>>
>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>>>
>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>>>
>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>>>
>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>>>
>>>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>>> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>
>>>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->
>>>
>>>>>> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>
>>>>>> ============================================
>>>
>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>>>
>>>> hour.
>>>
>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>>>
>>>>> That's
>>>
>>>>>> relativity.
>>>
>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
>>>>>> <mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: giovedÃ¬ 16 giugno 2011 15.48
>>>
>>>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>>>
>>>> BELOTTI,
>>>
>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
>>>
>>>>> (PIETRO
>>>
>>>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>> Cyril
>>>
>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>
>>>>> Sadler';
>>>
>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to support
>>>
>>>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe that
>>>
>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told
>>>
>>>> not
>>>
>>>>> to
>>>
>>>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only
>>>>>> or
>>>
>>>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward
>>>
>>>>>> compatibility issues somehow.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> BR
>>>
>>>>>> Daniele
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: giovedÃ¬ 16 giugno 2011 8.53
>>>
>>>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>>>
>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
>>>
>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
>>>
>>>>> 'Steve
>>>
>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>> Cyril
>>>
>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>
>>>>> Sadler';
>>>
>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
>>>
>>>> multi-
>>>
>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
>>>
>>>>>> Rajan,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much preferred
>>>
>>>> to
>>>
>>>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage labels.
>>>
>>>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>
>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
>>>
>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
>>>
>>>> Pithewan;
>>>
>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
>>>
>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
>>>
>>>>> 'Steve
>>>
>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>> Cyril
>>>
>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>
>>>>> Sadler';
>>>
>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
>>>
>>>> multi-
>>>
>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in
>>>
>>>> link
>>>
>>>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and single-
>>>
>>>>> stage
>>>
>>>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate
>>>
>>>> what
>>>
>>>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we
>>>
>>>> have
>>>
>>>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs
>>>
>>>> with
>>>
>>>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>>>> Rajan
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:58:10 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From lberger@labn.net  Sun Jul  3 11:10:49 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Okay.  So what's your opinion:

2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)

Lou

On 7/3/2011 1:58 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically creates the intermediate
> switching stage LSPs necessary to support it within the containing
> hierarchical ODUk LSP'
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:
> 
>> John,
>>        I think all understand that the question relates to if there
>> is a
>> requirement to support signaling multiple stages in a single LSP.
>>
>>> What do I need to write to make this clear?
>>
>> If you disagree, please rephrase as you think is sufficient to make
>> the
>> question clear.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Lou,
>>>
>>> As I think I have written at least two or three times over the past
>>> day or so, I don't think the requirement as originally written or as
>>> revised is useful because both or the two methods under discussion
>>> will meet it.
>>>
>>> What do I need to write to make this clear?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So John,
>>>>       From my list:
>>>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
>>>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
>>>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
>>>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
>>>> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)
>>>>
>>>> Are you a "yes" in 2C or 2D?
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...
>>>>
>>>> On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about
>>>>> using 'intermediate switching stage
>>>>> LSP'?
>>>>>
>>>>> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second paragraph.
>>>>> I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method,
>>>>> either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establish
>>>>> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no
>>>>> reason to support both.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?
>>>>>
>>>>> If not, I would like to step further to make something explicit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough resource
>>>>> on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if
>>>>> Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3 termination,
>>>>> how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you explain a little more?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>>> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>>>> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in
>>>>> response to Pietroâ€™s email.  I think it also addresses the points
>>>>> in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analys
>>>>> is of it by you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO)'
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, Letâ€™s converge.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for
>>>>> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example
>>>>> below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage
>>>>> muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA
>>>>> LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For these
>>>>> two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you
>>>>> can understand that these two ways are better and more efficient
>>>>> than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to
>>>>> give the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for
>>>>> multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or
>>>>> multi-
>>>>> stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified
>>>>> solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this
>>>>> approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can
>>>>> just choose single stage + H-LSP.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ30æ—¥ 12:13
>>>>> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on links,
>>>>> in which case the â€˜containing hierarchical LSPâ€™ is the linkâ€™s
>>>>> OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling multipl
>>>>> e one hop sub-layer LSPs.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because
>>>>> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in
>>>>> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage
>>>>> hierarchical LSPs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ30æ—¥ 11:37
>>>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO)'
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments inline.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO)'
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly by
>>>>> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before
>>>>> ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is
>>>>> already there.
>>>>>
>>>>> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an email I
>>>>> sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that you
>>>>> create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it to
>>>>> establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as
>>>>> needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of the
>>>>> two proposals being discussed.
>>>>>
>>>>> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still
>>>>> H-LSP concept there.
>>>>>
>>>>> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds
>>>>> it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and
>>>>> then *either*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends
>>>>> the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage
>>>>> label for the ODU2 LSP
>>>>>
>>>>> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be
>>>>> regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop
>>>>> FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop
>>>>> scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this
>>>>> sentence that we are trying to make you understood many times).
>>>>>
>>>>> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didnâ€™t think mul
>>>>> ti-st
>>>>> age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and tha
>>>>> t I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multis
>>>>> tage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing hiera
>>>>> rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.
>>>>>
>>>>> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why
>>>>> it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not just
>>>>> use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please review
>>>>> our slides again to get more information about cons of multi-stage
>>>>> muxing(slide 5).
>>>>>
>>>>> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your figure I
>>>>> had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had an
>>>>> interesting scenario to discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ29æ—¥ 23:39
>>>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO)'
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>> Letâ€™s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between n
>>>>> ode B
>>>>> and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the s
>>>>> ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer OD
>>>>> U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.  Wit
>>>>> h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2
>>>>> multi-stage label.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some
>>>>> non-
>>>>> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels,
>>>>> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isnâ€™t enough
>>>>> diffe
>>>>> rence between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO)'
>>>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper
>>>>> wording. Letâ€™s discuss tech.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple
>>>>> example shown below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node
>>>>> E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic
>>>>> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message?
>>>>> What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or
>>>>> Resv message?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake
>>>>> Sent: 2011å¹´6æœˆ29æ—¥ 6:12
>>>>> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Igor,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a few clarifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical
>>>>> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works
>>>>> for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-
>>>>> stage switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs,
>>>>> the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which
>>>>> provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the same two
>>>>> endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost certainly
>>>>> details to be worked out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I would
>>>>> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:
>>>>>> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Pietro,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps
>>>>>> saying
>>>>>
>>>>>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to
>>>>>
>>>>>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem
>>>>>> stupid
>>>>>
>>>>>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is
>>>>>> sufficient a
>>>>>
>>>>>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and
>>>>>> support
>>>>>
>>>>>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification
>>>>>> of a
>>>>>
>>>>>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS
>>>>>> god-
>>>>>
>>>>>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to
>>>>>> control the
>>>>>
>>>>>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-
>>>>>> stage
>>>>>
>>>>>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Igor
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>>>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello John,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of
>>>>>> private
>>>>>
>>>>>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This
>>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>> impolite and unprofessional.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four
>>>>>> threads
>>>>>
>>>>>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to
>>>>>> follow for
>>>>>
>>>>>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning.
>>>>>> Moreover,
>>>>>
>>>>>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already
>>>>>> started in
>>>>>
>>>>>> the mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and
>>>>>> deliberate
>>>>>
>>>>>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical
>>>>>> motivation as
>>>>>
>>>>>> reported in your mails and snipped below:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,
>>>>>
>>>>>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not
>>>>>> even
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrong."
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found
>>>>>
>>>>>> them, shall we say, lacking."
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a
>>>>>> purely
>>>>>
>>>>>> technical point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>>>>>
>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>>>>>> hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>
>>>>>> relativity.
>>>>>
>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>>>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of John E Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: martedÃ¬ 28 giugno 2011 14.13
>>>>>
>>>>>> To: CCAMP
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: John E Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>> ; Ciena -
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
>>>>>> BELOTTI,
>>>>>
>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Comments inline.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
>>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> ; Ciena -
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
>>>>>
>>>>>> BELOTTI,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> JD:  I will let this pass.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,
>>>>>>> establish
>>>>>
>>>>>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>> we
>>>>>
>>>>>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned
>>>>>>> (eg.,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> OAM/protection issues).
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't
>>>>>> think the
>>>>>
>>>>>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is
>>>>>> either
>>>>>
>>>>>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was
>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>
>>>>>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing
>>>>>> multi-
>>>>>
>>>>>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the
>>>>>> issues
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue
>>>>>
>>>>>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I
>>>>>
>>>>>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy
>>>>>>> must be
>>>>>
>>>>>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label
>>>>>>> approach.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>
>>>>>> B,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO
>>>>>
>>>>>> ODUj
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B
>>>>>>> and D
>>>>>
>>>>>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are
>>>>>>> lots
>>>>>
>>>>>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply
>>>>>
>>>>>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt
>>>>>> latency
>>>>>
>>>>>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within
>>>>>
>>>>>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "John E Drake"
>>>>>>> <<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>>>> lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>>>>>> <<m
>>>>>>> ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@
>>>>>>> ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Rajan
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rao"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Fatai Zhang"
>>>>>>> <<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Khuzema
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pithewan"
>>>>>>> <<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>>>>>> lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>>>>>> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok
>>>>>>> Kunjidhapatham"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<m
>>>>>>> ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Diego Caviglia"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<m
>>>>>>> ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Steve Balls"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"
>>>>>>>>> <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com
>>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>>> ; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
>>>>>
>>>>>> <<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com
>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Li Dan"
>>>>>>> <<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Jonathan Hardwick"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<m
>>>>>>> ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@
>>>>>>> metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<m
>>>>>>> ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com
>>>>>>>>> ; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pietro,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-
>>>>>>> stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment
>>>>>
>>>>>> using
>>>>>
>>>>>>> single-stage muxing is done.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before
>>>>>>> so we
>>>>>
>>>>>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
>>>>>
>>>>>> explicitly
>>>>>
>>>>>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the
>>>>>
>>>>>> Path
>>>>>
>>>>>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
>>>>>
>>>>>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
>>>>>
>>>>>> efficient
>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>
>>>>>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a
>>>>>>> node
>>>>>
>>>>>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how
>>>>>>> signaling is
>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>> be accomplished.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
>>>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema
>>>>>>>> Pithewan;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>> Margaria;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-
>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something
>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> does not exist at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together with
>>>>>>>> NMS.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>> label
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy
>>>>>>>> implementation
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> consequences.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can
>>>>>
>>>>>> only
>>>>>
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing)
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that
>>>>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sent a few days ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage
>>>>>
>>>>>> label
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>>>>>
>>>>>> hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> relativity.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema
>>>>>>>> Pithewan;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>> Margaria;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Somasundaram
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
>>>>>
>>>>>> switching
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same
>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello John,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in
>>>>>>>> routing
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> multi-stage label is supported.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not agree with this statement.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
>>>>>
>>>>>>> supported.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: venerdÃ¬ 17 giugno 2011 2.09
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele
>>>>>>>> Ceccarelli;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>>>>>>> (SERGIO);
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyndon
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>>>> Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadler';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
>>>>>
>>>>>> different
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means
>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and
>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> proposing that we use multistage.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
>>>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;
>>>>>
>>>>>> Khuzema
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>>>> Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadler';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is
>>>>>>>> implicit
>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine
>>>>>>>> explicitly
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> declares the support.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>>>>> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ============================================
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>>>>>
>>>>>> hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> relativity.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli
>>>>>>>> [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: giovedÃ¬ 16 giugno 2011 15.48
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>>>>>
>>>>>> BELOTTI,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (PIETRO
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>>>> Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadler';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to
>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told
>>>>>
>>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> compatibility issues somehow.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BR
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: giovedÃ¬ 16 giugno 2011 8.53
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema
>>>>>>>> Pithewan;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>>>> Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadler';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
>>>>>
>>>>>> multi-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rajan,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much
>>>>>>>> preferred
>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage
>>>>>>>> labels.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:
>>>>>>>> [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pithewan;
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>>>>>> Cyril
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadler';
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
>>>>>
>>>>>> multi-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in
>>>>>
>>>>>> link
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and
>>>>>>>> single-
>>>>>
>>>>>>> stage
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate
>>>>>
>>>>>> what
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we
>>>>>
>>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs
>>>>>
>>>>>> with
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rajan
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Sun Jul  3 18:04:54 2011
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Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 09:04:46 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John,

I guessed that you would answer "No", :-)~~

But, you ignored my consequent question: =20

If there is no enough resource on link BC or CD (or both of them) to =
create ODU3 FA LSP between node B and D (but there are available =
resource for ODU2), or if Node C cannot support ODU3 switching but =
support ODU3 termination, how you can create ODU0 connection with =
multi-stage labels?





Thanks
=20
Fatai


-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5 21:23
To: Fatai Zhang
Cc: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Fatai,

Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about using =
'intermediate switching stage
LSP'?

To answer your question, I don't agree with your second paragraph.  I =
thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method, either =
sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establish =
intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no reason to =
support both.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang" =
<zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>> wrote:

John,

Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?

If not, I would like to step further to make something explicit.

Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough resource on =
link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if Node C can =
not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3 termination, how you can =
create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?

Could you explain a little more?


Fatai

Thanks






----- Original Message -----
From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor =
Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Fatai,

Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in response =
to Pietro=E2=80=99s email.  I think it also addresses the points in your =
email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analysis of it by =
you.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Hi John,

OK, Let=E2=80=99s converge.

I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for some =
cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example below, we can =
create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ie., =
ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP and then use =
one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For these two ways, there is no =
need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can understand that these =
two ways are better and more efficient than your approach (two stages =
(ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).

In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to give the =
flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for multi-stage =
muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage labels in =
some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified solution. If people =
like multi-stage labels, they can choose this approach to use. If people =
do not like multi-stage labels, they can just choose single stage + =
H-LSP.



Fatai

Thanks



From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 12:13
To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO VITTORIO)'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Fatai,

I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on links, in =
which case the =E2=80=98containing hierarchical LSP=E2=80=99 is the =
link=E2=80=99s OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than =
signaling multiple one hop sub-layer LSPs.

However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because =
having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in =
inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical =
LSPs.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 11:37
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Fatai,

Comments inline.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Hi John,

So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly by =
multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before ODU0 =
request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is already =
there.

JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an email I sent =
you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that you create the =
containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it to establish  OUDj =
client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as needed, with the =
sub-layer LSPs being established using one of the two proposals being =
discussed.

A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.

How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-LSP =
concept there.

JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it, =
establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and then =
*either*


1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the =
ODU0 Path message to D *OR*

2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage =
label for the ODU2 LSP

If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be regarded =
as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop FA and =
one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop scenario =
rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this sentence that we are =
trying to make you understood many times).

JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didn=E2=80=99t think =
multi-stage labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and =
that I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop =
multistage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing =
hierarchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.

If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why it =
needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not just use the =
simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please review our slides =
again to get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing(slide 5).

JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your figure I had =
mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had an =
interesting scenario to discuss.

Thanks

Fatai

From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 23:39
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Fatai,

Let=E2=80=99s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node =
B and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the =
sub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer ODU2 =
hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.  With =
multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 =
multi-stage label.

As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-zero =
amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels, strictly =
from an efficiency perspective.  There isn=E2=80=99t enough difference =
between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage


Hi John,



Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper =
wording. Let=E2=80=99s discuss tech.



Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple example =
shown below.



Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node E by =
multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic parameters, =
labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message? What action =
should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or Resv message?







<image001.png>











Thanks



Fatai





-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> =
On Behalf Of John E Drake
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 6:12
To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage



Igor,



I have a few clarifications.



1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical =
LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)



2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for the =
establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage switching. =
 This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the containing =
hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which provide context for =
intermediate stage labels, between the same two endpoints.  This is a =
new construct and there are almost certainly details to be worked out.



3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I would prefer =
that the working group pick one to standardize.



Thanks,



John



Sent from my iPhone





> -----Original Message-----

> From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
]>

> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM

> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>

> Hi Pietro,

>

> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps saying

> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.

> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to

> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem =
stupid

> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a

> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and =
support

> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.

> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;

> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification of a

> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS god-

> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control =
the

> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.

> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage

> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.

>

> Cheers,

> Igor

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> =
On Behalf

> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM

> To: John E Drake

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>

> Hello John,

>

> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private

> mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is

> impolite and unprofessional.

>

> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads

> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow =
for

> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,

> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in

> the mailing list.

>

> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate

> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as

> reported in your mails and snipped below:

>

> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,

> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not even

> wrong."

>

> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found

> them, shall we say, lacking."

>

> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a purely

> technical point of view.

>

> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele

>

> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@a=
lcatel-lucent.com>

> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.

> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. =
That's

> relativity.

> (A. Einstein)

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> =
On Behalf

> Of John E Drake

> Sent: marted=C3=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.13

> To: CCAMP

> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>

>

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: John E Drake

> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM

> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan

> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; Ciena -

> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; =
BELOTTI,

> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli

> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>

> Fatai,

>

> Comments inline.

>

> Thanks,

>

> John

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM

> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

> > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan

> > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; Ciena -

> > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;

> BELOTTI,

> > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli

> > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> >

> > Hi John,

> >

> > I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.

>

> JD:  I will let this pass.

>

> >

> > You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e., establish

> > multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that

> we

> > described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned (eg.,

> > OAM/protection issues).

>

> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't think =
the

> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either

> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was =
addressing

> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing multi-

> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues

> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue

> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I

> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.

>

> >

> > In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be

> > used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.

> > E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D, but

> B,

> > C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO

> ODUj

> > (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D

> > through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are =
lots

> > of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.

>

> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply

> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt =
latency

> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within

> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Fatai

> >

> > Thanks

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "John E Drake" =
<<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>=
>

> > To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"

> > =
<<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi=
@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>

> > Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli" =
<<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<=
mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>; "Rajan

> Rao"

> > =
<<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>>; =
"Fatai Zhang" =
<<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@hu=
awei.com>>; "Khuzema

> > Pithewan" =
<<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan@i=
nfinera.com>>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"

> > =
<<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.=
com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok Kunjidhapatham"

> > =
<<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto=
:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>>; "Diego Caviglia"

> > =
<<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:d=
iego.caviglia@ericsson.com>>; "Steve Balls"

> > =
<<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:Ste=
ve.Balls@metaswitch.com>>; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong" =
<<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>>;

> > =
<<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.=
cn>>; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"

> =
<<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.marga=
ria@nsn.com>>;

> > "Li Dan" =
<<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.da=
nli@huawei.com>>; "Jonathan Hardwick"

> > =
<<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.co=
m<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>>; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"

> > =
<<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:j=
onathan.sadler@tellabs.com>>; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"

> > =
<<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net>>

> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM

> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> >

> >

> > Pietro,

> >

> > If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-stage

> > muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format, =
which

> I

> > believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment

> using

> > single-stage muxing is done.

> >

> > We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so =
we

> > are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP

> > hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs

> explicitly

> > and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the

> Path

> > message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established

> > implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.

> >

> > Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more

> efficient

> > wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not want

> to

> > do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we will

> > only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node

> > advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is

> to

> > be accomplished.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > John

> >

> > Sent from my iPhone

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:[mailto:pietro_=
vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

> > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM

> > > To: John E Drake

> > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;

> > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;

> Steve

> > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

> Margaria;

> > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam

> > > Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > John,

> > >

> > > It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-LSP

> > > concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something

> that

> > > does not exist at all.

> > > Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.

> > > Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage

> > label

> > > would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy =
implementation

> > > consequences.

> > >

> > > We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can

> only

> > be

> > > used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing) =
and

> > it

> > > will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that =
Fatai

> > > sent a few days ago.

> > >

> > > For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage

> label

> > > concept is absolutely mandatory for us.

> > >

> > > Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele

> > >

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@a=
lcatel-lucent.com>

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an

> hour.

> > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.

> > That's

> > > relativity.

> > > (A. Einstein)

> > >

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40

> > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;

> > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;

> Steve

> > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

> Margaria;

> > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam

> > > Somasundaram

> > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > Pietro,

> > >

> > > We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage

> switching

> > > support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.

> > >

> > > As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same =
LSP

> > > endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-

> > > considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling

> > > multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPhone

> > >

> > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> > > VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > =
lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luce=
nt.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello John,

> > >

> > > I understand that you think that the new switching type in routing

> > > should also convey implicitly the information that a

> > > multi-stage label is supported.

> > >

> > > I do not agree with this statement.

> > > Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are possible

> > (and

> > > already standard) and the fact the a node supports

> > > the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is

> > supported.

> > >

> > > Pietro

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > Sent: venerd=C3=AC 17 giugno 2011 2.09

> > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;

> > > Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO =
(SERGIO);

> > > Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -

> Lyndon

> > > Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n>; 'NSN - Cyril

> > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

> > Sadler';

> > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > Pietro,

> > >

> > > Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a

> different

> > > switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means

> that

> > we

> > > get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I am

> > > proposing that we use multistage.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPhone

> > >

> > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:[mailto:pietro_=
vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

> > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM

> > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;

> Khuzema

> > > Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego

> > > Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n>; 'NSN - Cyril

> > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

> > Sadler';

> > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I  agree with Daniele' statement.

> > >

> > > in my mind this means that single stage label support is implicit

> and

> > > that

> > > multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly

> > > declares the support.

> > >

> > > Pietro

> > >

> > >

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > Mail: =
<<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio=
.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->

> > > =
lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luce=
nt.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an

> hour.

> > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.

> > That's

> > > relativity.

> > > (A. Einstein)

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: Daniele Ceccarelli =
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarell=
i@ericsson.com]>

> > > Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 15.48

> > > To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;

> BELOTTI,

> > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n>; 'NSN - Cyril

> > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

> > Sadler';

> > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...

> > >

> > > Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to support

> > > single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe that

> as

> > > per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.

> > >

> > > An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told

> not

> > to

> > > deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only =
or

> > > multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward

> > > compatibility issues somehow.

> > >

> > > BR

> > > Daniele

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 8.53

> > > To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;

> > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

> > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;

> > 'Steve

> > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n>; 'NSN - Cyril

> > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

> > Sadler';

> > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for

> multi-

> > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)

> > > Rajan,

> > >

> > > I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much preferred

> to

> > > say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage labels.

> > > These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPhone

> > >

> > > From: Rajan Rao =
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>

> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM

> > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema

> Pithewan;

> > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

> > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;

> > 'Steve

> > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n>; 'NSN - Cyril

> > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

> > Sadler';

> > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for

> multi-

> > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in

> link

> > > advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:

> > >

> > > Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and single-

> > stage

> > > with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate

> what

> > > the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we

> have

> > > discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs

> with

> > > different capabilities (inter-op).

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Rajan

> _______________________________________________

> CCAMP mailing list

> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> _______________________________________________

> CCAMP mailing list

> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

_______________________________________________

CCAMP mailing list

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From kpithewan@infinera.com  Mon Jul  4 03:56:52 2011
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From: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Hi Jonathan,

Pls see inline with tag [KP,AK]

Thanks
Khuzema and Ashok.

From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:56 PM
To: Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
Cc: Biao Lu; Ping Pan; Mohit Misra; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Rajan Rao; Radhak=
rishna Valiveti
Subject: RE: OTN signalling drafts status

Hi Khuzema.

See inline for my comments, marked with [JS].

Jonathan Sadler

-->8 SNIP 8<--

I've looked at your interpretation of how the requirements you've stated be=
low are satisfied/not satisfied by the two drafts under consideration and w=
ould like to ask you about two of your conclusions:

Requirement

Draft-Zhang

Draft-Khuzema

R2

Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers

Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and better restoration perfo=
rmance.


You state that "better" scalability and restoration performance is achieved=
 in Draft-Khuzema - I interpret your statement this assuming that under the=
 H-LSP approach, any change of a service layer LSP requires a change to bot=
h the service LSP as well as the lower layer LSP.  Please validate my inter=
pretation.

KP: Better scalability comes from the fact that, we do not have to advertis=
e H-LSP as FAs , hence reducing number of TE-Links in the network. Better r=
estoration performance comes, as you correctly understood, we do not have t=
o create lower layer LSP, saving signaling time.

[JS] I understand there is a reduction of routing information that comes fr=
om not advertising the H-LSPs, though your assertion this helps scalability=
 seems to be assuming a specific routing approach (e.g. distributed path co=
mputation dependent on a replicated distributed topology database).  Other =
routing approaches (e.g. PCE) are not adversely affected.

[KP, AK]: Well it depends on number of such links in the network and CPU ho=
rsepower, available memory etc of network elements. Since system parameters=
 are playing a role, it's hardly justifying the flooding of information whi=
ch can be avoided.


[JS] Independent of this, the choice to not advertise the fact that a lower=
 layer connection was established to support higher layer connections leads=
 to stranded capacity.  This has significant operational (and cost) impact =
to network operators.  Under the H-LSP approach, the operator has the choic=
e to advertise or not for each H-LSP, thereby allowing for the operator to =
better trade-off scalability concerns and resource utilization.

[KP, AK] If operator wants to plan single hop H-LSPs and create them before=
 signaling service ODUj LSP, he can do so. Multi-stage label approach is re=
placing "induced" single hop H-LSPs. Whether a service layer ODUj is induci=
ng single hop H-LSP or using multi-stage label, both comes with same risk o=
f leaving stranded capacity, as it depends on the resource allocation algor=
ithm.


Please also validate my understanding of the solution proposed in draft-khu=
zema: it seems the solution proposed requires separate signaling for each o=
f the service LSPs to perform restoration.  In the case of an ODU3 full of =
ODU0s, this would be 32 LSPs with 32 separate signaling actions when restor=
ation is required.

Under the H-LSP solution in draft-zhang, the same scenario of an ODU3 full =
of ODU0s would require 33 LSPs (32 for the ODU0s and 1 for the ODU3). Howev=
er, explicitly signaling the ODU3 LSP makes it possible to have restoration=
 performed on the ODU3, benefiting all of the ODU0 LSPs with one signaling =
action.  I therefore would expect the H-LSP solution to have better restora=
tion performance.


KP: The Multi-stage label removes the necessity of single hop H-LSP. Multi-=
stage label construct works in conjunction with H-LSP for the cases when Lo=
wer layer ODU layer is required to be setup for multiple hops. That is requ=
irement# R6.

Hence I assume when you are comparing multi-stage and H-LSP, you are talkin=
g about single hop H-LSP. Since it is a single hop H-LSP, it has only one l=
ink between 2 interfaces and hence there is no way it can restore, if link =
has gone down. Now those 32 LSPs has to restore, and depending on the path =
they find, it may involve mulit-stage or H-LSPs.

[JS] Actually, I was considering the single hop case and signaling restorat=
ion of traffic to a different link between two neighboring nodes (the link =
could be within a bundle or otherwise).  Restoration certainly can be done =
for the lower layer LSP as long as it goes between the same to fabrics bein=
g connected by the original link.  And the upper layer LSPs don't need to m=
ove as they all benefit from the restoration of the lower layer LSP.

[JS] Your discussion above though points out another benefit of the H-LSP a=
pproach.  When restoration of a single-hop LSP requires going to a multi-ho=
p path, the H-LSP can again facilitate the reroute action with a single sig=
naling exchange between the nodes involved in the lower layer LSP.  The use=
 of multi-stage labels requires separate signaling exchanges between the sa=
me nodes, which can be a significantly higher number of messages.

[KP, AK]: All your above discussion about ability to restore a single hop H=
-LSP assumes that operator wants to and has the alternate restoration path =
for the link. But there are other possibilities

*         What if the link is protected (1+1, 1:n), then the H-LSP need not=
 restore and use of multi-stage is ok.

*         What if there is no alternate path of the link, then the ODUj ser=
vice layer LSP has to restore end-to-end.
The point is, the operator can still use multi-stage wherever required. If =
operator don't want to use multi-stage, s/he can go ahead and plan H-LSPs i=
n these cases.


Requirement

Draft-Zhang

Draft-Khuzema

R5

Not Supported

Supported


R5 states a requirement for egress interface control, and your conclusions =
above state it isn't possible to support this in draft-zhang and can be sup=
ported in draft-khuzema.

There are solutions that allow for egress control to be satisfied using dra=
ft-zhang (e.g. assigning ifIndexes to potential H-LSPs defining the interme=
diate ODUj - these can then be specified in an ERO).  This approach has the=
 advantage of working with un-bundled as well as bundled egress links, incl=
uding bundles made up of links using different lower layer speed/technologi=
es (e.g. a bundle of OTU3 and ODU4)

KP: draft-khuzema does it in single lsp setup (through signaling of course)=
 and hence avoid multiple manual steps to create those H-LSPs. Whatever can=
 be done through signaling can also be done manually. Draft-zhang relies on=
 manual steps, that's the reason of marking that requirement as Not support=
ed.

[JS] I'm not certain I understand the manual steps you are citing.  The onl=
y thing required is the assignment of ifIndexes to the potential H-LSPs and=
 the establishment of the lower layer connections .  This can be done autom=
atically by equipment.

[KP, AK]: How system will know about creating a certain multiplexing hierar=
chy and assign the interface indices to each layer i.e. service layer and a=
ll the lower layers?

Can you explain how the solution specified in draft-khuzema can handle bund=
le links where different lower layer speeds are in use?

KP: In the multi-stage label construct, we are not talking about links, the=
 construct is to identify data plane layer and their time slots. Bundling o=
r no-bundling, doesn't have any impact.

[JS]  I disagree.  Egress label control requires the egress label format to=
 be known.  If the egress link has multiple links in a bundle of different =
type (e.g. a bundle of OTU3 and OTU4), under the multi-stage label proposal=
, the label format ends up changing if a resource is being specified on the=
 OTU3 link vs the OTU4 link.  Its inherent due to the different "time slot"=
 (sic) structure of the egress link.

[KP, AK] :  For bundled links, Label is applicable to a component in a bund=
le. So whether it is single stage or multi-stage, the talk of label will st=
art only after you have identified the component in the bundle.  Even for B=
UNDLE_SCOPE labels (RFC 4201, sec 2.3), the label is applicable for all the=
 components in the bundle. So In your example whether it is OTU3 component =
or OTU4 component, the IF_ID TLV will identify the right component  and lab=
el needs to be interpreted in the conjunction with the same.


Thanks,

Jonathan Sadler

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of K=
huzema Pithewan
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:23 PM
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status

Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this off.

Hi CCampers,

We would like to provide more context to multi-stage label approach for bet=
ter understanding.  OTN is inherently a hierarchical network, and there are=
/will be cases where service ODU has to go through mandatory creation of mo=
re than one layer because of various technical/economic reasons. We are lis=
ting here requirements for supporting services over hierarchical OTN networ=
k.


1.      [R1] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj service layer =
on a ODUk link via single stage muxing.



A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (j<k) multiplexing on a =
given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data-plane entities are create=
d for the ODUj service layer. ODUk link could be a point-to-point OTUk link=
 or a H-LSP.



2.      [R2] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate one or more interme=
diate layers on a ODUk link in order to support the ODUj service layer.



A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk lin=
k. These intermediate layers can be implicitly created as a part of ODUj se=
rvice LSP creation. In this case, both controlplane and dataplane entities =
will be created for the ODUj service layer. However, intermediate ODU layer=
(s) (implicitly created) will have dataplane representation only.



3.      [R3] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj service layer =
on a ODUk link where one or more intermediate ODU layers may be pre-existin=
g.



A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk lin=
k. These intermediate layers may be pre-existing  as a result of another LS=
P creation on the same ODU hierarchy or explicitly configured through manag=
ement interface.



4.      [R4] Support signaling mechanism where ODUj service LSP creation ma=
y involve varying mux hierarchies on each hop



An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creation may involve zero or more stage ODU =
multiplexing on every hop in the path. Basically,the scenarios discussed in=
 R1 to R3 could be associated with any of the hops involved.



5.      [R5] Support signaling mechanism for egress control of OTN interfac=
es



An egress interface of a ODUj LSP could involve single or multiple stage mu=
ltiplexing. Egress Label sub-object defined in [RFC-4003] must be used to s=
ignal hierarchical multiplexing information pertaining to the egress interf=
ace of the LSP.



6.      [R6] Support signaling mechanism when ODUj service LSP creation req=
uires induced or manually created H-LSP.

Based on the above requirements, following is the comparison between two dr=
afts under discussion.


Requirement

Draft-Zhang

Draft-Khuzema

R1

Supported

Supported

R2

Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers

Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and better restoration perfo=
rmance.

R3

Supported using H-LSPs for each non-existing HO-ODU layers

Supported without H-LSPs

R4

Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers

Supported without H-LSPs

R5

Not Supported

Supported

R6

Supported using H-LSP

Supported using H-LSP



Would like to hear opinions.

Authors draft-khuzema


From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of G=
RANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:53 PM
To: 'CCAMP'
Subject: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status

Hello CCampers,

Currently two drafts exist for the signaling of LSPs in OTN technology.
The two drafts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709 and
draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709, contain a lot of similarities
but are fundamentally different with respect to the support of multi-stage =
technology.

Draft-zhang proposes to deal with multi-stage technology via the usage
of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC6107. With this approach all LSPs
belonging to intermediate layers of a hierarchy are signaled as separate H-=
LSPs.
Monitoring, protection and restoration functionalities are applicable indep=
endently to each LSP.

Draft-khuzema proposes to introduce a new multi-stage label concept so that
a single construct contains labels associated to more then one hierarchical=
 level.
This implies that all level in the OTN  hierarchy with the exclusion of ser=
vice levels
are not visible as single LSPs.
Each layer cannot be independently monitored.
Only the service layer (the layer with the finest granularity) can be prote=
cted or restored.

Advantages and disadvantages of both approaches can be summarized in short,=
 telling that
the H-LSP approach is able to work in any situation while the multi-stage l=
abel approach is suitable
on single hops or similar situations (reached signaling before an H-LSP) bu=
t, when used,
optimizes processing.

As such we perceive the Draft-khuzema approach as an optimization that coul=
d be supported in an optional way.

Before going on with merging of the two drafts we would like to hear opinio=
ns from CCampers.

Pietro & Sergio

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Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
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Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">Hi Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">Pls see inline with tag [=
KP,AK]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">Khuzema and Ashok.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Sadler, =
Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CC=
AMP'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Biao Lu; Ping Pan; Mohit Misra; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Rajan Rao;=
 Radhakrishna Valiveti<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: OTN signalling drafts status<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Khuzema.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">See inline for my comment=
s, marked with [JS].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--&gt;8 SNIP 8&lt;--<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;ve looked at your=
 interpretation of how the requirements you&#8217;ve stated below are satis=
fied/not satisfied by the two drafts under consideration and would like
 to ask you about two of your conclusions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"638" style=3D"width:6.65in;border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Requirement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border:solid window=
text 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and bette=
r restoration performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">You state that &#8220;bet=
ter&#8221; scalability and restoration performance is achieved in Draft-Khu=
zema &#8211; I interpret your statement this assuming that under the H-LSP
 approach, any change of a service layer LSP requires a change to both the =
service LSP as well as the lower layer LSP.&nbsp; Please validate my interp=
retation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#984806"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#984806">KP: Better scalability co=
mes from the fact that, we do not have to advertise H-LSP as FAs , hence re=
ducing number of TE-Links in the network. Better restoration
 performance comes, as you correctly understood, we do not have to create l=
ower layer LSP, saving signaling time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JS] I understand there i=
s a reduction of routing information that comes from not advertising the H-=
LSPs, though your assertion this helps scalability seems
 to be assuming a specific routing approach (e.g. distributed path computat=
ion dependent on a replicated distributed topology database).&nbsp; Other r=
outing approaches (e.g. PCE) are not adversely affected.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">[KP, AK]: Well it depends=
 on number of such links in the network and CPU horsepower, available memor=
y etc of network elements. Since system parameters are playing
 a role, it&#8217;s hardly justifying the flooding of information which can=
 be avoided.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JS] Independent of this,=
 the choice to not advertise the fact that a lower layer connection was est=
ablished to support higher layer connections leads to stranded
 capacity.&nbsp; This has significant operational (and cost) impact to netw=
ork operators.&nbsp; Under the H-LSP approach, the operator has the choice =
to advertise or not for each H-LSP, thereby allowing for the operator to be=
tter trade-off scalability concerns and resource
 utilization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">[KP, AK] If operator want=
s to plan single hop H-LSPs and create them before signaling service ODUj L=
SP, he can do so. Multi-stage label approach is replacing
 &#8220;induced&#8221; single hop H-LSPs. Whether a service layer ODUj is i=
nducing single hop H-LSP or using multi-stage label, both comes with same r=
isk of leaving stranded capacity, as it depends on the resource allocation =
algorithm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please also validate my u=
nderstanding of the solution proposed in draft-khuzema: it seems the soluti=
on proposed requires separate signaling for each of the
 service LSPs to perform restoration.&nbsp; In the case of an ODU3 full of =
ODU0s, this would be 32 LSPs with 32 separate signaling actions when restor=
ation is required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Under the H-LSP solution =
in draft-zhang, the same scenario of an ODU3 full of ODU0s would require 33=
 LSPs (32 for the ODU0s and 1 for the ODU3). However, explicitly
 signaling the ODU3 LSP makes it possible to have restoration performed on =
the ODU3, benefiting all of the ODU0 LSPs with one signaling action.&nbsp; =
I therefore would expect the H-LSP solution to have better restoration perf=
ormance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#984806">KP: The Multi-stage label=
 removes the necessity of single hop H-LSP. Multi-stage label construct wor=
ks in conjunction with H-LSP for the cases when Lower layer
 ODU layer is required to be setup for multiple hops. That is requirement# =
R6.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#984806">Hence I assume when you a=
re comparing multi-stage and H-LSP, you are talking about single hop H-LSP.=
 Since it is a single hop H-LSP, it has only one link between
 2 interfaces and hence there is no way it can restore, if link has gone do=
wn. Now those 32 LSPs has to restore, and depending on the path they find, =
it may involve mulit-stage or H-LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JS] Actually, I was cons=
idering the single hop case and signaling restoration of traffic to a diffe=
rent link between two neighboring nodes (the link could
 be within a bundle or otherwise).&nbsp; Restoration certainly can be done =
for the lower layer LSP as long as it goes between the same to fabrics bein=
g connected by the original link.&nbsp; And the upper layer LSPs don&#8217;=
t need to move as they all benefit from the restoration
 of the lower layer LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JS] Your discussion abov=
e though points out another benefit of the H-LSP approach.&nbsp; When resto=
ration of a single-hop LSP requires going to a multi-hop path,
 the H-LSP can again facilitate the reroute action with a single signaling =
exchange between the nodes involved in the lower layer LSP.&nbsp; The use o=
f multi-stage labels requires separate signaling exchanges between the same=
 nodes, which can be a significantly
 higher number of messages. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">[KP, AK]: All your above =
discussion about ability to restore a single hop H-LSP assumes that operato=
r wants to and has the alternate restoration path for the
 link. But there are other possibilities<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#C0000=
0"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#C00000">What if the li=
nk is protected (1&#43;1, 1:n), then the H-LSP need not restore and use of =
multi-stage is ok.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol;color:#C0000=
0"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#C00000">What if there =
is no alternate path of the link, then the ODUj service layer LSP has to re=
store end-to-end.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">The point is, the operator can still use m=
ulti-stage wherever required. If operator don&#8217;t want to use multi-sta=
ge, s/he can go ahead and plan H-LSPs in these cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"638" style=3D"width:6.65in;border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Requirement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border:solid window=
text 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Not Supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">R5 states a requirement f=
or egress interface control, and your conclusions above state it isn&#8217;=
t possible to support this in draft-zhang and can be supported
 in draft-khuzema.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">There are solutions that =
allow for egress control to be satisfied using draft-zhang (e.g. assigning =
ifIndexes to potential H-LSPs defining the intermediate
 ODUj &#8211; these can then be specified in an ERO).&nbsp; This approach h=
as the advantage of working with un-bundled as well as bundled egress links=
, including bundles made up of links using different lower layer speed/tech=
nologies (e.g. a bundle of OTU3 and ODU4)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#984806">KP: draft-khuzema does it=
 in single lsp setup (through signaling of course) and hence avoid multiple=
 manual steps to create those H-LSPs. Whatever can be done
 through signaling can also be done manually. Draft-zhang relies on manual =
steps, that&#8217;s the reason of marking that requirement as Not supported=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JS] I&#8217;m not certai=
n I understand the manual steps you are citing.&nbsp; The only thing requir=
ed is the assignment of ifIndexes to the potential H-LSPs and the establish=
ment
 of the lower layer connections .&nbsp; This can be done automatically by e=
quipment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">[KP, AK]: How system will=
 know about creating a certain multiplexing hierarchy and assign the interf=
ace indices to each layer i.e. service layer and all the
 lower layers?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#1F497D">Can you explain how the solution specified in draft-khuzema can ha=
ndle
 bundle links where different lower layer speeds are in use?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#984806">KP: In the multi-stage la=
bel construct, we are not talking about links, the construct is to identify=
 data plane layer and their time slots. Bundling or no-bundling,
 doesn&#8217;t have any impact.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JS]&nbsp; I disagree.&nb=
sp; Egress label control requires the egress label format to be known.&nbsp=
; If the egress link has multiple links in a bundle of different type (e.g.
 a bundle of OTU3 and OTU4), under the multi-stage label proposal, the labe=
l format ends up changing if a resource is being specified on the OTU3 link=
 vs the OTU4 link.&nbsp; Its inherent due to the different &#8220;time slot=
&#8221; (sic) structure of the egress link.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000">[KP, AK] :&nbsp; For bund=
led links, Label is applicable to a component in a bundle. So whether it is=
 single stage or multi-stage, the talk of label will start only
 after you have identified the component in the bundle. &nbsp;Even for BUND=
LE_SCOPE labels (RFC 4201, sec 2.3), the label is applicable for all the co=
mponents in the bundle. So In your example whether it is OTU3 component or =
OTU4 component, the IF_ID TLV will identify
 the right component &nbsp;and label needs to be interpreted in the conjunc=
tion with the same.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#C00000"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Khuzema Pithewan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2011 11:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this off.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Hi CCampers,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">We would like to provide more context to multi-stage lab=
el approach for better understanding.&nbsp; OTN is inherently a hierarchica=
l network, and there are/will be cases where service ODU has
 to go through mandatory creation of more than one layer because of various=
 technical/economic reasons. We are listing here requirements for supportin=
g services over hierarchical OTN network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:11=
5%"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:=
115%;background:silver;mso-highlight:silver">[R1]</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%"> Support signaling mechanism to instantiate =
ODUj service layer on a ODUk link via
 single stage muxing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%">A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (j&lt;k) multiplexi=
ng on a given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data-plane entities ar=
e created for the ODUj service layer. ODUk
 link could be a point-to-point OTUk link or a H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:11=
5%"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:=
115%;background:silver;mso-highlight:silver">[R2]</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%"> Support signaling mechanism to instantiate =
one or more intermediate layers on a
 ODUk link in order to support the ODUj service layer. <o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%">A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODU=
k link. These intermediate layers can be implicitly created as a part of OD=
Uj service LSP creation. In this case,
 both controlplane and dataplane entities will be created for the ODUj serv=
ice layer. However, intermediate ODU layer(s) (implicitly created) will hav=
e dataplane representation only.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:11=
5%"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:=
115%;background:silver;mso-highlight:silver">[R3]</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%"> Support signaling mechanism to instantiate =
ODUj service layer on a ODUk link where
 one or more intermediate ODU layers may be pre-existing. <o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%">A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODU=
k link. These intermediate layers may be pre-existing&nbsp; as a result of =
another LSP creation on the same ODU hierarchy
 or explicitly configured through management interface. <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:11=
5%"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:=
115%;background:silver;mso-highlight:silver">[R4]</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%"> Support signaling mechanism where ODUj serv=
ice LSP creation may involve varying
 mux hierarchies on each hop <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%">An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creation may involve zero or more stage=
 ODU multiplexing on every hop in the path. Basically,the scenarios discuss=
ed in R1 to R3 could be associated with
 any of the hops involved.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:11=
5%"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:=
115%;background:silver;mso-highlight:silver">[R5]</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%"> Support signaling mechanism for egress cont=
rol of OTN interfaces
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%">An egress interface of a ODUj LSP could involve single or multiple sta=
ge multiplexing. Egress Label sub-object defined in [RFC-4003] must be used=
 to signal hierarchical multiplexing
 information pertaining to the egress interface of the LSP.&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:1=
15%"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:11=
5%"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;line-height:=
115%;background:silver;mso-highlight:silver">[R6]</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%"> Support signaling mechanism when ODUj servi=
ce LSP creation requires induced or
 manually created H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Based on the above requirements, following is the compar=
ison between two drafts under discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"638" style=3D"width:6.65in;border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Requirement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border:solid window=
text 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;border-left:none;background:#C4BC96;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and bette=
r restoration performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each non-existing HO-ODU laye=
rs
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported without H-LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Not Supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=3D"109" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:81.9pt;border:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">R6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"222" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:166.5pt;border-top:none;bor=
der-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"307" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.2in;border-top:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Supported using H-LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Would like to hear opinions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Authors draft-khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2011 6:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hello CCampers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Currently two drafts exist for the signa=
ling of LSPs in OTN technology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The two drafts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp=
-gmpls-evolving-g709 and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709=
, contain a lot of similarities<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">but are fundamentally different with res=
pect to the support of multi-stage technology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-zhang proposes to deal with multi-=
stage technology via the usage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC6107.=
 With this approach all LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">belonging to intermediate layers of a hi=
erarchy are signaled as separate H-LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Monitoring, protection and restoration f=
unctionalities are applicable independently to each LSP.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Draft-khuzema proposes to introduce a ne=
w multi-stage label concept so that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">a single construct contains labels assoc=
iated to more then one hierarchical level.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">This implies that all level in the OTN&n=
bsp; hierarchy with the exclusion of service levels<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">are not visible as single LSPs.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Each layer cannot be independently monit=
ored.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Only the service layer (the layer with t=
he finest granularity) can be protected or restored.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Advantages and disadvantages of both app=
roaches can be summarized in short, telling that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">the H-LSP approach is able to work in an=
y situation while the multi-stage label approach is suitable
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">on single hops or similar situations (re=
ached signaling before an H-LSP) but, when used,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">optimizes processing.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As such we perceive the Draft-khuzema ap=
proach as an optimization that could be supported in an optional way.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Before going on with merging of the two =
drafts we would like to hear opinions from CCampers.&nbsp; &nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Pietro &amp; Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Tel: &#43;39 039 686 4930</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luce=
nt.com</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute=
, and it seems like an hour.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and i=
t seems like a&nbsp; minute. That's relativity.</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">(A. Einstein)</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tr=
ebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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please notify us immediately by replying to the message and<br>
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Mon Jul  4 04:00:42 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 03:58:00 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
Thread-Index: Acw6OUc7HysayoPKRfWRBptqIFRXjw==
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John,

I think you misunderstood my question, I am not saying that multi-stage =
labels could be magic, :-)~~~

I just want to make you understand that multi-stage labels cannot handle =
these typical cases, but H-LSP can do.



Thanks
=20
Fatai


-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 18:58
To: Fatai Zhang
Cc: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Fatai,

I'm sorry but I really have been using my iPhone for the past few days
and I didn't have access to the figure.

I think multi-stage switching is more efficient but it doesn't
introduce magic, so if the resources are not available, multi-stage
labels will not make them available.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2011, at 9:04 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I guessed that you would answer "No", :-)~~
>
> But, you ignored my consequent question:
>
> If there is no enough resource on link BC or CD (or both of them) to
> create ODU3 FA LSP between node B and D (but there are available
> resource for ODU2), or if Node C cannot support ODU3 switching but
> support ODU3 termination, how you can create ODU0 connection with
> multi-stage labels?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Fatai
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5 21:23
> To: Fatai Zhang
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Fatai,
>
> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about
> using 'intermediate switching stage
> LSP'?
>
> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second paragraph.
> I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method, either
> sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establish
> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no reason
> to support both.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang" =
<zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
> >> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?
>
> If not, I would like to step further to make something explicit.
>
> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough resource on
> link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if Node C
> can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3 termination, how you
> can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?
>
> Could you explain a little more?
>
>
> Fatai
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor =
Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> > ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> >
> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Fatai,
>
> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in
> response to Pietro=E2=80=99s email.  I think it also addresses the =
points in
>  your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analysis o
> f it by you.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hi John,
>
> OK, Let=E2=80=99s converge.
>
> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for
> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example
> below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage
> muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA
> LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For these
> two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think you
> can understand that these two ways are better and more efficient
> than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).
>
> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to give
> the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for multi-
> stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage
> labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified
> solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this
> approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can
> just choose single stage + H-LSP.
>
>
>
> Fatai
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 12:13
> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Fatai,
>
> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on links,
> in which case the =E2=80=98containing hierarchical LSP=E2=80=99 is the =
link=E2=80=99s
> OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling multiple
> one hop sub-layer LSPs.
>
> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because
> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in
> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage
> hierarchical LSPs.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 11:37
> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Fatai,
>
> Comments inline.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM
> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hi John,
>
> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly by
> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before
> ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is
> already there.
>
> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an email I
> sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that you
> create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it to
> establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as
> needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of the
> two proposals being discussed.
>
> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.
>
> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-
> LSP concept there.
>
> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it,
> establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and then
> *either*
>
>
> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the
> ODU0 Path message to D *OR*
>
> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage
> label for the ODU2 LSP
>
> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be
> regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop
> FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop
> scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this
> sentence that we are trying to make you understood many times).
>
> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didn=E2=80=99t think =
multi-stag
> e labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and that I
> only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multistage h
> ierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing hierarchical
> LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.
>
> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why
> it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not just
> use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please review our
> slides again to get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing
> (slide 5).
>
> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your figure I
> had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had an
> interesting scenario to discuss.
>
> Thanks
>
> Fatai
>
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 23:39
> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Fatai,
>
> Let=E2=80=99s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between =
node B a
> nd node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the sub-l
> ayer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer ODU2 hie
> rarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.  With multi-
> stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stag
> e label.
>
> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-
> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels,
> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isn=E2=80=99t enough =
differe
> nce between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> VITTORIO)'
> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>
> Hi John,
>
>
>
> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper
> wording. Let=E2=80=99s discuss tech.
>
>
>
> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple
> example shown below.
>
>
>
> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node
> E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic
> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message?
> What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or
> Resv message?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Fatai
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 6:12
> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>
>
> Igor,
>
>
>
> I have a few clarifications.
>
>
>
> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical
> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)
>
>
>
> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for
> the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage
> switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the
> containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which
> provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the same two
> endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost certainly
> details to be worked out.
>
>
>
> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I would
> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:
>> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>
>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM
>
>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
>
>> Cc: CCAMP
>
>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>
>
>> Hi Pietro,
>
>>
>
>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps
>> saying
>
>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
>
>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to
>
>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem
>> stupid
>
>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a
>
>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and
>> support
>
>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.
>
>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
>
>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification of a
>
>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS
>> god-
>
>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control
>> the
>
>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
>
>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage
>
>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.
>
>>
>
>> Cheers,
>
>> Igor
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
>
>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
>
>> To: John E Drake
>
>> Cc: CCAMP
>
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>
>
>> Hello John,
>
>>
>
>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private
>
>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is
>
>> impolite and unprofessional.
>
>>
>
>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads
>
>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow
>> for
>
>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,
>
>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in
>
>> the mailing list.
>
>>
>
>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate
>
>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as
>
>> reported in your mails and snipped below:
>
>>
>
>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,
>
>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not
>> even
>
>> wrong."
>
>>
>
>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found
>
>> them, shall we say, lacking."
>
>>
>
>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a
>> purely
>
>> technical point of view.
>
>>
>
>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
>
>>
>
>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>
>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>
>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>
>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>
>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>
>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
>
>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>> That's
>
>> relativity.
>
>> (A. Einstein)
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
>
>> Of John E Drake
>
>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.13
>
>> To: CCAMP
>
>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: John E Drake
>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
>
>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>
>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
>
>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>> >; Ciena -
>
>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
>> BELOTTI,
>
>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
>
>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>
>
>> Fatai,
>
>>
>
>> Comments inline.
>
>>
>
>> Thanks,
>
>>
>
>> John
>
>>
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
>
>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
>
>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
>
>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>> >; Ciena -
>
>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
>
>> BELOTTI,
>
>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
>
>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>
>
>>> Hi John,
>
>>>
>
>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
>
>>
>
>> JD:  I will let this pass.
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e., establish
>
>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that
>
>> we
>
>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned (eg.,
>
>>> OAM/protection issues).
>
>>
>
>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't think
>> the
>
>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either
>
>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was
>> addressing
>
>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing
>> multi-
>
>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues
>
>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue
>
>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I
>
>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be
>
>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.
>
>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D, but
>
>> B,
>
>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO
>
>> ODUj
>
>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D
>
>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are
>>> lots
>
>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
>
>>
>
>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply
>
>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt
>> latency
>
>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within
>
>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Fatai
>
>>>
>
>>> Thanks
>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>>> From: "John E Drake"
>>> =
<<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>> >>
>
>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
>
>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>> =
lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittor=
io.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>> >>
>
>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>> <<m
>>> ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@
>>> =
ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@er=
icsson.com
>>> >>; "Rajan
>
>> Rao"
>
>>> =
<<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com
>>> >>; "Fatai Zhang"
>>> =
<<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@hu=
awei.com
>>> >>; "Khuzema
>
>>> Pithewan" =
<<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan@i=
nfinera.com
>>> >>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
>
>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok
>>> Kunjidhapatham"
>
>>> =
<<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto=
:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com
>>> >>; "Diego Caviglia"
>
>>> =
<<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:d=
iego.caviglia@ericsson.com
>>> >>; "Steve Balls"
>
>>> =
<<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:Ste=
ve.Balls@metaswitch.com
>>> >>; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong" =
<<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com
>>> >>;
>
>>> =
<<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.=
cn
>>> >>; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
>
>> =
<<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.marga=
ria@nsn.com
>> >>;
>
>>> "Li Dan" =
<<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.da=
nli@huawei.com
>>> >>; "Jonathan Hardwick"
>
>>> <<m
>>> ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@
>>> =
metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@=
metaswitch.com
>>> >>; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
>
>>> =
<<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:j=
onathan.sadler@tellabs.com
>>> >>; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
>
>>> =
<<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net
>>> >>
>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
>
>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Pietro,
>
>>>
>
>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-stage
>
>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format,
>>> which
>
>> I
>
>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment
>
>> using
>
>>> single-stage muxing is done.
>
>>>
>
>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so
>>> we
>
>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP
>
>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
>
>> explicitly
>
>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the
>
>> Path
>
>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
>
>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.
>
>>>
>
>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
>
>> efficient
>
>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not want
>
>> to
>
>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we will
>
>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node
>
>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is
>
>> to
>
>>> be accomplished.
>
>>>
>
>>> Thanks,
>
>>>
>
>>> John
>
>>>
>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>
>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
>
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
>
>>>> To: John E Drake
>
>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>
>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
>
>> Steve
>
>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
>
>> Margaria;
>
>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam
>
>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>>
>
>>>> John,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-LSP
>
>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something
>
>> that
>
>>>> does not exist at all.
>
>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.
>
>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage
>
>>> label
>
>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy implementation
>
>>>> consequences.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can
>
>> only
>
>>> be
>
>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing) and
>
>>> it
>
>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that Fatai
>
>>>> sent a few days ago.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage
>
>> label
>
>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
>
>>>>
>
>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>
>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>
>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>
>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>
>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com> =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>
>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>
>> hour.
>
>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>
>>> That's
>
>>>> relativity.
>
>>>> (A. Einstein)
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>
>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
>
>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>
>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>
>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
>
>> Steve
>
>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
>
>> Margaria;
>
>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Vallinayakam
>
>>>> Somasundaram
>
>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Pietro,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
>
>> switching
>
>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same LSP
>
>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-
>
>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling
>
>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> John
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
>
>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>
>>>> =
lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luce=
nt.com
>>>> >mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>
>> wrote:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hello John,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in routing
>
>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a
>
>>>> multi-stage label is supported.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> I do not agree with this statement.
>
>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are possible
>
>>> (and
>
>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports
>
>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
>
>>> supported.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Pietro
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ________________________________
>
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>
>>>> Sent: venerd=C3=AC 17 giugno 2011 2.09
>
>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>
>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO);
>
>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -
>
>> Lyndon
>
>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>> Cyril
>
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>
>>> Sadler';
>
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Pietro,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
>
>> different
>
>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means
>
>> that
>
>>> we
>
>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I am
>
>>>> proposing that we use multistage.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Thanks,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> John
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>>
>
>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
>
>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
>
>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;
>
>> Khuzema
>
>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
>
>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>> Cyril
>
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>
>>> Sadler';
>
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>
>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hi all,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is implicit
>
>> and
>
>>>> that
>
>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly
>
>>>> declares the support.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Pietro
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
>
>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
>
>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
>
>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
>
>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>
>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->
>
>>>> =
lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luce=
nt.com
>>>> >mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
>
>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
>
>> hour.
>
>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
>
>>> That's
>
>>>> relativity.
>
>>>> (A. Einstein)
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ________________________________
>
>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
>>>> <mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>
>
>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 15.48
>
>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>
>> BELOTTI,
>
>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
>
>>> (PIETRO
>
>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>> Cyril
>
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>
>>> Sadler';
>
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>
>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to support
>
>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe that
>
>> as
>
>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told
>
>> not
>
>>> to
>
>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only or
>
>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward
>
>>>> compatibility issues somehow.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> BR
>
>>>> Daniele
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ________________________________
>
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
>
>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 8.53
>
>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
>
>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
>
>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
>
>>> 'Steve
>
>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>> Cyril
>
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>
>>> Sadler';
>
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>
>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
>
>> multi-
>
>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
>
>>>> Rajan,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much preferred
>
>> to
>
>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage labels.
>
>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Thanks,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> John
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>>
>
>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:
>>>> [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>
>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
>
>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
>
>> Pithewan;
>
>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
>
>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
>
>>> 'Steve
>
>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
>
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
>>>> Cyril
>
>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
>
>>> Sadler';
>
>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
>
>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
>
>> multi-
>
>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hi,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in
>
>> link
>
>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and single-
>
>>> stage
>
>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate
>
>> what
>
>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we
>
>> have
>
>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs
>
>> with
>
>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Thanks
>
>>>> Rajan
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> CCAMP mailing list
>
>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>
>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> CCAMP mailing list
>
>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>
>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> CCAMP mailing list
>
> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>
> =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/ccamp
>
>



From jdrake@juniper.net  Mon Jul  4 05:44:49 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 05:41:22 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hello John, in line.

I tried to answer point by point and to add where possible some additional =
considerations. This time they are from me only but I think they can be sha=
red.

Pietro

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: venerd=EC 1 luglio 2011 16.35
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Pietro,

We are talking past each other.  I agree with most of what you have written=
, but it is not applicable to the construct under discussion.  I have been =
trying to explain this since January, but let me try again.  This is the no=
te I was trying to avoid writing the other day when I sent multiple 'privat=
e' emails to the CCAMP mailing list.  Again, my apologies for my sloth.

I would suggest that you read this email and then annotate it line by line =
to indicate what you agree or disagree with and what you do not understand,=
 rather than simply writing another email telling me how ignorant I am.

The construct is a containing hierarchical ODUk LSP which is being used for=
 multi-stage ODUj switching.  This means that within the containing hierarc=
hical ODUk LSP, additional hierarchical LSPs need to be established in orde=
r to provide intermediate context for the ODUj LSPs.  I have been calling t=
hese sub-layer LSPs, because they are only there to provide label support b=
etween the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP and the ODUj LSPs it is being u=
sed to switch and because they have no existence outside the context of the=
 containing hierarchical ODUk LSP.

E.g., if the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP is an ODU3 and the hierarchy =
it supports is ODU1 -> ODU2 -> ODU3, then after the containing hierarchical=
 ODU3 LSP is established, an ODU2 LSP between the same endpoints as the con=
taining hierarchical ODU3 LSP needs to be established in order to allow the=
 containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP to be used for switching ODU1 LSPs.

THE ONLY POINT OF DISCUSSION is whether these 'sub-layer' LSPs are to estab=
lished using hierarchical LSP signaling prior to the signaling of the ODUj =
LSPs or whether multi-stage labels can be piggy-backed on the ODUj signalin=
g message.  Please reread the preceding sentence as many times as necessary=
 in order to understand crux of the discussion.

In our example, the first method would require the signaling of an hierarch=
ical ODU2 LSP between the endpoints of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP=
 prior to the signaling of any ODU1 LSPs between the endpoints of the conta=
ining hierarchical ODU3 LSP.

[[PG]] This is reasonable.  Note also that this first method is the only wa=
y in which a network manager is currently able to operate. When deploying a=
 control plane we MUST have in my opinion the possibility to deploy it in s=
uch a way that is not disruptive for NMS implementations, and this could me=
an that setup of LSPs  that need implicit creation of intermediate stages v=
ia multi-stage label is an option that could be activated/deactivated on no=
de base.

[[PG]] The optional behavior can be easily obtained simply telling that:
1) A node advertises what is supported
2) A signaling request containing a multi-stage label (with more then 1 sta=
ge) can be rejected with a motivation like "feature not supported".
I do not understand why such behavior should not be foreseen.


The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2 LSP to b=
e piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the endpoints of the =
containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the hierarchical ODU2 LSP to=
 be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1 LSP.

[[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be completely tr=
ansparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration are impacting on it.=
 At least two important questions have to be answered too:

1) Which is the de-allocation policy of the intermediate stages.
2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate stages ?
This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-empted =
for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).

This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of which of=
 the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it has the followi=
ng characteristics:

[[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism is just=
 the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I mean the poss=
ibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).

Only the second is completely new.

1)  The sub-layer LSPs share fate with the containing hierarchical LSP

[[PG]] If I have well understood your hypothesis in your example ODU1 -> OD=
U2 -> ODU3, it must be that  ODU2 and ODU3 have terminations on the same
interfaces. That same interfaces must be also able to demux ODU1 for switch=
ing.
This MAY be true or not dependently from implementation of
the mux/demux. If the mux/demux function is obtained cascading two interfac=
es within the same NE you can have a failure in the intermediate stage with=
out having it in the ODUk. Probably in the case of cascaded interfaces the =
first method should be preferable.

2)  It is IMPOSSIBLE to perform protection/restoration of these sub-layer L=
SPs outside the context of the containing hierarchical LSP.  This is becaus=
e the only two nodes that are aware of the existence of these sub-layer LSP=
s are the nodes at either end of the containing hierarchical LSP

[[PG]] This is a choice that is in charge of the operator. The physical int=
erface by itself never prevents restoration. FA-LSPs have logical interface=
s associated, so when restoring them it is possible to move the endpoints f=
rom one interface to another within the same NE, re-signaling only the FA L=
SP. In your example this allows restoring ODU2s without re-signaling ODU1s.=
 Moreover as said above intermediate stages can be in any case subject to p=
re-emption.

3)  Similarly, and for the same reason, OAM for these sub-layer LSPs can on=
ly be done between the endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSPs.  AS A=
N ASIDE, control plane control of OTN OAM in general is in a nascent state =
and this construct has not been considered at all.

[[PG]] If the operator chooses so and the function is not obtained with cas=
caded boards.

4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this constru=
ct.

[[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do understand v=
ery well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work exactly with that sa=
me logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes conceptually for OTN.

5)  From a layer network perspective, the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP =
and the ODUj LSPs for which it is being used to switch would be visible BUT=
 the sub-layer LSPs would not be.

[[PG]] Yes. But it is an operator choice, not an HW implementation.

AND AGAIN, items 1) through 5) above are INVARIANT REGARDLESS of which of t=
he two methods is selected to establish the sub-layer LSP within the contai=
ning hierarchical ODUk LSP.

[[PG]] John this is another point of disagreement. The conditions are not i=
nvariant.
With H-LSPs only you do not need to care about points 1 to 5 while instead =
all the conditions have to be satisfied in order to go with multi-stage lab=
els and some of the conditions are operator choices not
HW constraints. We should make in such a way that an operator can choose
not to use the mechanism (even by error)

FINALLY, the term 'containing hierarchical ODUk LSP' could be replaced with=
 the term 'link' in all of the above text, BUT I don't think multi-stage sw=
itching over links in the core of an OTN link network is viable from a scal=
ability perspective.


[[PG]] I have understood this.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:13 AM
> To: John E Drake; CCAMP
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hello John,
>
> it is not clear which is the meaning of "sub-layer" that you have in
> mind,
> but if we consider ITU-T definitions,  from data plane point of view an
> ODU containing another ODU does not define a sub-layer, it defines
> instead a layer.
>
> ITU-T defines the possibility to protect independently all layers in
> the OTN network architecture as well as in SDH architecture.
> As consequence the possibility to perform protection of all layers has
> to be taken as a requirement for signaling and routing protocols.
>
> Protecting or not intermediate layers is a decision in charge of
> operators and not of SDOs.
>
> Multi-layer networking has been standardized by ITU-T several years
> ago,
> has been applied in field to SDH networks and it has been adopted for
> OTN networks. Multi-layer networking is directly supported by H-LSPs,
> thus
> solutions based on H-LSPs would have low impact on NMS because they are
> consistent with current practice and NMS architectures.
>
> Assigning multi-stage labels is just a way to perform signaling
> in very special cases of multi-layer networks, but it imposes a way of
> working in which intermediate layers pops up when client
> This way of working is very different from what is currently supported
> and thus implies  huge modifications.
>
> Moreover to support the generic requirement stated above, a solution
> based only on H-LSPs has to be supported in any case, so there is no
> reason to impose multi-stage label since day one.
>
> A comment about: " The containing hierarchical LSP with multiple sub-
> layer LSPs, regardless of which of the two proposals being discussed
> for establishing the sub-layer LSPs, has nothing whatever to do with
> layer management."
>
> Signaling is an instrument to put in place LSPs that are managed by NMS
> as belonging to layers. So there is a precise relationship with respect
> to layer management in the sense that signaling protocols are tools
> devoted to implement what is needed for management plane and must not
> provide requirements to management.
>
> Said this, again, I have nothing in contrary to support both solutions
> because I understand very well that in some cases there can be
> processing advantages in using multi-stage labels. I am also convinced,
> for what I said before, that multi-stage label support MUST NOT be
> mandatory.
>
> Pietro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: mercoled=EC 29 giugno 2011 17.53
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Comments inline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:42 AM
> > To: CCAMP
> > Cc: John E Drake; Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); GRANDI,
> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> >
> > Hello Igor,
> >
> > The discussion is all in deciding whether to consider the
> > support of multi-stage label as optional or mandatory.
> >
> > Support of multi-stage labels have consequences that include:
> > 1) the fact that it is not possible to protect intermediate layers
> > either via protection or restoration. This restricts the application
> > field of the concept in such a way that it can be considered an
> > optimization applicable to specific cases.
>
> JD:  As I have said before, for the new construct we are dealing with,
> viz, a containing hierarchical LSP with one or more sub-layer LSPs
> between the same two endpoints, it is not possible to protect the
> individual sub-layer LSPs outside the context of the containing
> hierarchical LSP.
>
> >
> > 2) Heavy impacts on transport network management systems that are
> > currently based on "per layer management" and should work in a very
> > different way.
>
> JD:  The construct defined above is new and management systems will
> have to be modified to understand it.
>
> > Last but not least, the OTN architecture allows explicitly the "per
> > layer"
> > management, that is the reference for transport networks. Every GMPLS
> > implementation has to be consistent with this reference.
>
> JD:  The containing hierarchical LSP with multiple sub-layer LSPs,
> regardless of which of the two proposals being discussed for
> establishing the sub-layer LSPs, has nothing whatever to do with layer
> management.
>
> >
> > In conclusion, the usage of the multi-stage label  should be
> considered
> > as optional and the support should be clearly stated via an
> appropriate
> > advertising.
> >
> > Unfortunately, contrary to  point 3), someone insists in forcing the
> > usage and support of multi-stage labels as mandatory.
> >
> > The point in discussion is all here.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Pietro & Sergio
> >
> >
> > Hi Pietro,
> >
> > You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps
> saying
> > repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
> > 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to
> > network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem
> stupid
> > to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a
> > single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and
> support
> > numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.
> > just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
> >
> > 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification of a
> > new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS
> god-
> > fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control
> the
> > resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
> > 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage
> > provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Hello John,
> >
> > 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private
> > mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is
> > impolite and unprofessional.
> >
> > 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads
> > that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow
> for
> > people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,
> > this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in
> > the mailing list.
> >
> > 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate
> > personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as
> > reported in your mails and snipped below:
> >
> > "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,
> > multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not
> even
> > wrong."
> >
> > " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found
> > them, shall we say, lacking."
> >
> > We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a
> purely
> > technical point of view.
> >
> > Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> That's
> > relativity.
> > (A. Einstein)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of John E Drake
> > Sent: marted=EC 28 giugno 2011 14.13
> > To: CCAMP
> > Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
> > To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
> > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; Ciena -
> > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> BELOTTI,
> > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Fatai,
> >
> > Comments inline.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
> > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
> > > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan
> > > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; Ciena
> -
> > > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> > BELOTTI,
> > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli
> > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
> >
> > JD:  I will let this pass.
> >
> > >
> > > You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,
> establish
> > > multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues that
> > we
> > > described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned
> (eg.,
> > > OAM/protection issues).
> >
> > JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't think
> the
> > one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either
> > interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was
> addressing
> > my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing
> multi-
> > hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues
> > Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue
> > whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I
> > described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.
> >
> > >
> > > In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must be
> > > used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label approach.
> > > E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D,
> but
> > B,
> > > C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO
> > ODUj
> > > (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D
> > > through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are
> lots
> > > of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
> >
> > JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply
> > pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt
> latency
> > and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within
> > multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fatai
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
> > > <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > > Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "Rajan
> > Rao"
> > > <rrao@infinera.com>; "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>;
> "Khuzema
> > > Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> > > <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Ashok Kunjidhapatham"
> > > <akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>; "Diego Caviglia"
> > > <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>; "Steve Balls"
> > > <Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"
> <LyOng@Ciena.com>;
> > > <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
> > <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>;
> > > "Li Dan" <huawei.danli@huawei.com>; "Jonathan Hardwick"
> > > <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
> > > <jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
> > > <valli@juniper.net>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >
> > >
> > > Pietro,
> > >
> > > If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-
> stage
> > > muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format,
> which
> > I
> > > believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment
> > using
> > > single-stage muxing is done.
> > >
> > > We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so
> we
> > > are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP
> > > hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
> > explicitly
> > > and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the
> > Path
> > > message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
> > > implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.
> > >
> > > Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
> > efficient
> > > wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not
> want
> > to
> > > do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we will
> > > only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node
> > > advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is
> > to
> > > be accomplished.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
> > > > To: John E Drake
> > > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
> > Steve
> > > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; NSN - Cyril
> > Margaria;
> > > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> Vallinayakam
> > > > Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-
> LSP
> > > > concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something
> > that
> > > > does not exist at all.
> > > > Operators are used to managed their CP network together with NMS.
> > > > Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage
> > > label
> > > > would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy
> implementation
> > > > consequences.
> > > >
> > > > We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can
> > only
> > > be
> > > > used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing)
> and
> > > it
> > > > will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that
> Fatai
> > > > sent a few days ago.
> > > >
> > > > For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage
> > label
> > > > concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
> > > >
> > > > Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > > > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> > hour.
> > > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> > > That's
> > > > relativity.
> > > > (A. Einstein)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
> > > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;
> > Steve
> > > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; NSN - Cyril
> > Margaria;
> > > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> Vallinayakam
> > > > Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Pietro,
> > > >
> > > > We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
> > switching
> > > > support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
> > > >
> > > > As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same
> LSP
> > > > endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-
> > > > considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling
> > > > multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> > > > VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > > > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello John,
> > > >
> > > > I understand that you think that the new switching type in
> routing
> > > > should also convey implicitly the information that a
> > > > multi-stage label is supported.
> > > >
> > > > I do not agree with this statement.
> > > > Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are
> possible
> > > (and
> > > > already standard) and the fact the a node supports
> > > > the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
> > > supported.
> > > >
> > > > Pietro
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: venerd=EC 17 giugno 2011 2.09
> > > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele
> Ceccarelli;
> > > > Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO
> (SERGIO);
> > > > Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -
> > Lyndon
> > > > Ong'; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN -
> Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Pietro,
> > > >
> > > > Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
> > different
> > > > switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means
> > that
> > > we
> > > > get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I
> am
> > > > proposing that we use multistage.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
> > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;
> > Khuzema
> > > > Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
> > > > Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I  agree with Daniele' statement.
> > > >
> > > > in my mind this means that single stage label support is implicit
> > and
> > > > that
> > > > multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine explicitly
> > > > declares the support.
> > > >
> > > > Pietro
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > > > Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > > > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> > hour.
> > > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> > > That's
> > > > relativity.
> > > > (A. Einstein)
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
> > > > Sent: gioved=EC 16 giugno 2011 15.48
> > > > To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > BELOTTI,
> > > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> > > (PIETRO
> > > > VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > > >
> > > > Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
> > > >
> > > > Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to support
> > > > single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe
> that
> > as
> > > > per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
> > > >
> > > > An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told
> > not
> > > to
> > > > deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only
> or
> > > > multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward
> > > > compatibility issues somehow.
> > > >
> > > > BR
> > > > Daniele
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: gioved=EC 16 giugno 2011 8.53
> > > > To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> > > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
> > > 'Steve
> > > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
> > multi-
> > > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> > > > Rajan,
> > > >
> > > > I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much
> preferred
> > to
> > > > say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage
> labels.
> > > > These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
> > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
> > Pithewan;
> > > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> > > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;
> > > 'Steve
> > > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril
> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan
> > > Sadler';
> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for
> > multi-
> > > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in
> > link
> > > > advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
> > > >
> > > > Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and
> single-
> > > stage
> > > > with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate
> > what
> > > > the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we
> > have
> > > > discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs
> > with
> > > > different capabilities (inter-op).
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Rajan
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
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Hello CCAMPer's,

Following Lou's suggestion, this email intends to summarize the main change=
s introduced by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, viewed from the informati=
on model, we end-up with 3 of them:
    0. IMPORTANT REMINDER OF ONE OF THE PIECES THAT WAS NOT CHANGED: Resour=
ce block =3D group of devices with same features and same connectivity cons=
traints.

    1. Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which all=
ows the definition of several resource entites per node independantly flood=
able.
MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or tea=
r down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same connectivity=
 constraints)

    2. Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in ord=
er to describe connectivity constraints between node-external links and the=
 resource pools.
MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for OSPF-TE=
 inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit the number of co=
nnectivity representations introduced by current extensions (draft-ietf-rwa=
-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs).

    3. Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to keep only r=
esource/device description (moved the number of devices away).
MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same devices) blo=
cks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of information. b/ to creat=
e an independent flooding entity holding all the resource descriptions (whi=
ch are static), the decreasing the size of updated information.

Best regards,

Cyril, Giovanni, Julien and Pierre

-----Message d'origine-----
De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de L=
ou Berger
Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 juin 2011 16:57
=C0 : Leeyoung; draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo@tools.ietf.org
Cc : ccamp@ietf.org
Objet : [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version=
 Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)

Young,
        I think we have a substantive document that satisfies my request fo=
r "a document that can serve as the foundation for discussion" on their pro=
posal.

All,
        Perhaps it would be worthwhile to focus the discussion on the speci=
fic proposed changes and understanding the motivation for each.  I propose =
that we first focus on the Information model changes.


Authors of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo,

        Can you please list any major change made in Section 2 and explain/=
justify each proposed change? For example, discuss/justify your proposal to=
 have multiple resource pools vs the single pool model in ccamp-rwa-info. (=
Note the BNF for multiple pools is missing, but is implied by Figure 1.)

Once we have closure on major changes, we can move on to the more minor cha=
nges in the section as well as changes in encoding (your section 3.)

My hope is to resolve the open issues on the list prior to Quebec, but susp=
ect we'll need the WG session to help close the issues.

Lou

On 6/27/2011 4:32 PM, Leeyoung wrote:
> Hi Pierre,
>
> Please recall the WG chair's request to you in the last IETF meeting
> that the information you are to provide has to be comprehensive and
> complete so that others can understand the points you are making.
>
> Having reviewed your document, I think you need to provide the diagram
> of the node configuration you used as the basis of your analysis in
> the similar fashion to the current encoding draft.
>
> You mentioned that "For the small nodes, 5 different type of
> regenerators are considered, for the Middle and Large ones 10
> different type of regenerators are considered." -- Please provide your
> node diagrams for these cases so that we can provide our analysis.
> Until you provide the exact node configuration with these many OEO
> elements, it is not possible for us to proceed with the meaning
> comparisons.
>
> Regards, Young
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:26 AM
> To: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version
Notificationfordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> I clearly get your will of understanding how the evaluation in section
5 was conducted, and
> I've noticed you were concerned by 2 points:
>   - 1 the node model and node diagram. The way we have conducted the
study, we refered to generic types of nodes (independant of the node intern=
al structure), as we wanted the study not to be specific to a given product=
 or architecture. Basically we have taken values for the items that are mod=
eled by the information model. Though, for each case, we can provide multip=
le architectures (then diagrams) which would provide the same hypothesis. O=
ur text in section 5.2 is certainly perfectible, hence if when reading it s=
ome points are either unclear or lacking to help the reader understand, ple=
ase let us know which ones.
Section 5.2 is quoted below.
>   - 2 the encodings as used for current drafts. I have to say I fail
in understanding what you mean there. The encodings are provided in the dra=
fts, we have used the drafts indications to determine those, as you are the=
 editor of this draft, I would guess you would know how to determine those.=
 Apart from tiny details, there is no much degree of freedom  in the way of=
 encoding a given structure (which is to be hoped for in the frame of stand=
ardized protocol extensions). Can you help me then understand your point ?
>
>    o  Node Degree Connectivity: 4, 8 and 16.
>
>    o  WDM capacity: 100 wavelengths.
>
>    o  Switching capacity.  Defines the total node switching capability
>       and is calculated as Node Degree Connectivity x 100 wavelengths.
>
>    o  Regeneration Capability.  We assume a value of 5% of the total
>       switching capacity.
>
>    o  Add/Drop Capability.  We assume a typical value of 25% of the
>       switching capability.  So in the average up to 30 wavelengths per
>       incoming fiber can be added/dropped within the optical node.
>
>    o  Resource pool setup and capabilities.  A physical resource pool
>       contains a mix of Add/Drop and Regeneration capabilities.  This
>       has the effect of increasing the number of resource pool
>       advertized.  Resource pool can be fully flexible (connected to any
>       port), partial (only to some port) or Fixed (can only be connected
>       to one direction).  This parameter influences the complexity of
>       the connectivity matrix.
>
>    o  Number of Regenerator types.  For a given node the number of OEO
>       capabilities is limited, it is typically decided by the type of
>       electrical equipment and optical modules (emitting laser and
>       optical receiver).
>
>    o  Blocking Ratio.  The Spatial/Spectral blocking ratio indicates how
>       much port-based/wavelength based blocking a node is experiencing.
>
>    For example considering the typical design it results in the
>    following static layout:
>
>    o  3 OEO pools each having 3 Resource Block inside.
>
>    o  Connectivity Matrix: (8+30+30) 64x64 if considering one
>       connectivity matrix.  Ingress=3D64x3, Egress=3D3x64 (considering th=
e
>       OEO access with a multiple-wavelength link).
>
>    The following types of nodes and node designs were considered in this
>    evaluation:
>
>                           Node Types and designs
>
>                  Node Type       Nodal Degree Pool Type Blocking
>             Small(S), Flexible         4       Partial    None
>            Small(S), Fixed(port)       4        Fixed     Port
>           Small(S), Fixed(label)       4       Partial   Lambda
>             Middle(M), Flexible        8       Flexible   None
>             Large(L), Flexible        16       Flexible   None
>
>    For the small nodes, 5 different type of regenerators are considered,
>    for the Middle and Large ones 10 different type of regenerators are
>    considered.  Based on those designs we derived the following
>    important figures:
>
>    o  Number of resourcePool : depends on the pool type and
>       connectivity, which depend on the port blocking and number of Add/
>       Drop and Regenerator capacity.
>
>    o  Number of resourceBlock.  There is two numbers to be considered
>       here : the number of resourceBlock for a given resource pool (this
>       document) and total number of resourceBlock
>       ([I-D.ietf-ccamp-rwa-info]).  In this document the number of
>       resource block within a resource pool is, worst case, the number
>       of possible regenerator types, whereas in
>       [I-D.ietf-ccamp-rwa-info] the number of resource block depends on
>       the number of OEO types and on the connectivity.
>
>    o  Number of connectivity matrix/number of pairs/link per pairs.  The
>       number of sub-matrix increase depending on the port blocking
>       ratio, the number of pair in one connectivity matrix depends on
>       the wavelength restrictions.  Those two criteria do not depend on
>       which information model is considered.  The number of link per set
>       is increased by the number of resource pool in this draft.
>
>    Those numbers for each node are shown in the following table
> (corrected the number of pools)
>
>                 Details of information elements per node
>
>         Node Type    Resource Pools Resource Blocks Matrix/Pair/Links
>        S, Flexible          6            5 (30)       1/1/10 (1/1/1)
>       S, Fixed(port)       12            5 (60)       4/4/4 (4/4/1)
>      S, Fixed(label)        6            5 (30)       4/1/10 (4/1/1)
>        M, Flexible          3           10 (30)       1/1/11 (1/1/1)
>        L, Flexible          5           10 (50)       1/1/21 (1/1/1)
>
>        Nota: Values for [I-D.ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode] are between
>                                  brackets
>
>  As the preceding table may be uneasy to read, here is an alternative one=
:
>
>                  Details of information elements per node
>
>                         #Device            #ResProp
>    Node Type    #Pools   Type    #Blocks     TLV     Matrix/Pair/Links
>   S, Flexible      6       5       30       5 (25)     1/1/10 (1/1/1)
>  S, Fixed(port)   12       5       60       5 (45)     4/4/4  (4/4/1)
> S, Fixed(label)    6       5       30       5 (25)     4/1/10 (4/1/1)
>   M, Flexible      3      10       30      10 (30)     1/1/11 (1/1/1)
>   L, Flexible      5      10       50      10 (40)     1/1/21 (1/1/1)
>
>        Nota: Values for [I-D.ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode] are between
>                                  brackets
>
> Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part
de Greg Bernstein
> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 17 juin 2011 19:53
> =C0 : ccamp@ietf.org
> Objet : Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version
Notificationfordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt
>
> This issue can be readily resolved if the  diagrams and current WG
draft sub-TLV encoding use in sections 5.2 and 5.3 of peloso-3 is given.
> There are four authors of this document, hence somebody must have a
diagram of the switch and sub-TLV encodings that generated the numbers used=
 in the evaluation. If you can furnish that then I will show either
> (a) That the system of interest can be efficiently encoded with the
current WG drafts and current GMPLS/OSPF mechanisms.
> or
> (b) That a minimalistic extension to the WSON encoding draft along
with current GMPLS/OSPF extensions can be used to efficiently encode this s=
ystem.
>
> Note that the purpose of this exercise is to solve a potential problem
with the WSON WG drafts and if enough folks are concerned about a potential=
 problem we can figure out how to solve it.  The purpose is not a general r=
e-write of these drafts. Note that during the development of the WSON WG dr=
afts we shared all our test cases freely via my website, informal presentat=
ions at previous IETF meetings, and in papers published in journals. I don'=
t seen any reason for the authors of
> peloso-3 to keep their test cases secret when asking for changes to
CCAMP WG drafts to accommodate it.
>
> Greg
>
> On 6/17/2011 9:20 AM, Julien Meuric wrote:
>> Hi Young.
>>
>> You are right on one thing: operators try to minimize costs. This is
>> exactly why ROADMs are first deployed with 10 Gb/s wavelengths, 40
>> Gb/s when transponders become cost-efficient enough, and then 100
>> Gb/s, which will likely become cost-efficient later... Obviously,
>> minimizing cost mean deploying over existing things, not replacing;
>> therefore we end up with many types of regenerators, due to the
>> various bit-rates and modulation format existing out there.
>>
>> I personally believe that a few-year-old long haul network will end
>> up beyond Cyril's "reasonable figures" quite easily.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Julien
>>
>>
>> Le 17/06/2011 17:55, Leeyoung a =E9crit :
>>>
>>>  Cyril,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I think your example is a corner case, which is not typical case.
>>> We should not base this kind of highly theoretical corner case as
>>> the base case for your analysis. We are dealing with WSON switching
>>> enabled ROADM networks, not necessarily dealing with legacy DWDM
>>> system. Please also note that the typical WSON switching nodes are
>>> transparent nodes. Only some of the nodes may have Regen elements
>>> ---as I mentioned in the previous email, the operators try to
>>> minimize the use of Regen's due to its high cost.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Please see my other comment in-line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -------------------------
>>>
>>>  *From:*Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
>>> [mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com] **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi Young Lee, Ccamper's,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Reducing the type of regenerator makes sense but mixing regenerator
>>> type makes also sense, as you would try to avoid having only
>>> 40G-capable 3R when you can go for a cheaper 10G regenerator,
>>> depending on your demands.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  In Greenfield deployments single rate makes sense, in an existing
>>> networks having multi-rate (2) support with different electrical
>>> module may be less common but should still be supported.
>>>
>>>  This kind of network would need 6 description for the processing
>>> capability alone. The total number of resource description need to
>>> be higher, as in the info model the description of a regenerator
>>> include the number of resource. Each time the connectivity imply a
>>> different number of regenerator are grouped together a separate
>>> ResourceBlockInfo should be used (Separating connectivity and
>>> regenerator setup would help here).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  *YOUNG>> Your point on "separating connectivity and regenerator
>>> setup  would help here" is exactly the encoding principles of the
>>> current WG  adopted encoding drafts. Then I don't clearly understand
>>> what the  Pierre's draft are trying to do. *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Best case would see indeed 0-2 type of regenerator, intermediate
>>> actual deployments can see 6 types of regenerator, we also
>>> considered looking at possible evolutions, 10 being in our opinion a
>>> reasonable number.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I hope it could help you understand better what is considered in
>>> the draft. Those consideration will be more detailed in the next
>>> revision of the draft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Best Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  *From:*ext Leeyoung [mailto:leeyoung@huawei.com] **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi Cyril,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I think your analysis below is very theoretical and a bit out of
>>> reality in WSON node configuration.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  We are dealing with wavelength level so that OTUk level is
>>> transparent to WSON. In typical optical switch node configuration in
>>> WSON, we don't simply mix up all possible kinds of regenerators per
>>> each modulation type. It is true that we have many modulation types
>>> for each rate and the model should support all possibility. But this
>>> does not mean we have all "10 types" at the same time in a node
>>> design. As you know, regenerator is one of the most expensive WSON
>>> elements and having many types in a node is not economical and not
>>> realistic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  As far as my understanding of node design, we don't have such thing
>>> as you said in your email to support 10+ different types of
>>> regenerators in a node. In a typical commercially deployed WSON
>>> switching node, we have one rate (e.g., 10G or 40G, or possibly
>>>  others) and one regenerator type for each rate. If we have
>>> multi-rate  support, we may have two rates and thus two regenerators
>>> in a typical  WSON switching node.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I would be interested in the node design diagram that supports 10+
>>> different regenerators at the same time. I haven't seen such one
>>> myself yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Please also note that the WSON model has to support transparent
>>> node configuration, which we don't have "regen" element.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Best Regards,
>>>
>>>  Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -------------------------
>>>
>>>  *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) **
>>>
>>>  Hi Greg, CCAMPers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Regarding point (2), using one regen type per OTUk (k in [[1..4]]),
>>> and 2 type of laser module per reach makes already 8 type of oeo
>>> properties. Adding slightly different hw types (i.e old board with
>>> old modulation and a more recent with DP-QPSK) makes an easy 10
>>> types for a big node.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Without going into product families this sounded reasonable (for
>>> instance a typical product would indicate supports for 10 and 40g
>>> with different modulation, so lets say 2 sub-board type, which makes
>>>  6 regen type); The introduction of OTU4 and later OTU5 will
>>> increase the types of regenerator supported.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  The size expansion is indeed related to the number of regenerator
>>> type, resource blocks contain connectivity, oeo-feature and how the
>>> blocks are grouped.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  The other point would indeed clarify the document, the setup of
>>> resource pools/blocks is shown in Figure 1, a resource pool
>>> aggregating the connectivity for several resource blocks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Best regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>>> Behalf Of *ext Greg Bernstein **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi Pierre and draft authors, can you provide: (1) Diagrams of the
>>> example switches particularly with respect to the structure of the
>>> resource pools/blocks. (2) Explanation of why so many different
>>> types (not number) of regenerators in an optical node. You site 5
>>> different types for a small node and 10 for a large node. Can you
>>> point to a product family? I would think 0-1 types of regenerators
>>> for a small node and at maybe 2 for a large node or nodes that deal
>>> with long haul and metro types modulations. (3) Can you provide the
>>> example encodings such as done in the appendix of the encoding
>>> document so we can understand where the expansion is taking place.
>>>
>>>  It seems that the size expansions is directly related to the number
>>> of regenerator types, but hard to tell from this document. Are there
>>> any other WSON interested parties that have a need for so many
>>> regenerator types?
>>>
>>>  Cheers
>>>
>>>  Greg B.
>>>
>>>  On 6/10/2011 7:19 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Ccampers,
>>>
>>>  During Prague meeting I was asked to provide a draft detailing the
>>> solution we were presenting then concerning OSPF-TE extensions for
>>> Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (see point 10 of ccamp
>>> minutes). Julien, Giovanni, Cyril and I have tackled this work of
>>> providing a complete description of the solution with commonalities
>>> and deltas from the existing solution held in the following drafts:
>>> -
>>>  draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-11 -
>>>  draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-04 -
>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te-00 -
>>>  draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-11 -
>>>  draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-04
>>>
>>>  Feedback from the working group is welcome.
>>>
>>>  To trigger this feedback, this draft holds inside section 5 a
>>> numerical study on the amount of static and dynamic information to
>>> be flooded. This study was conducted on various typical WSON nodes
>>> and compares the size of the LSAs between the two solutions.
>>>
>>>  Regards,
>>>
>>>  - Pierre
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D Dr Greg
>>> Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
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>
>
>
>
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From lberger@labn.net  Mon Jul  4 19:53:23 2011
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Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 22:53:23 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01
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For now, the framework/requirement and rsvp-te document should be
presented in MPLS.  Don't worry about the draft names as that can be
fixed at a later date.

Lou

On 7/4/2011 7:15 AM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
> 
> Hi Lou
> 
> Would you like to inform us the decision?
> Tonight is the deadline for 00-draft uploading. If chairs decide this
> work should be posted to other WGs. So we will post them to a proper WG.
> Otherwise  we have to post framework/requirement and rsvp-te document to
> CCAMP. The work is related both packet (e.g., MPLS) and tdm (e.g., OTN)
> 
> Xihua
> 
> 
> *Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>*
> 
> 2011-06-30 ÏÂÎç 08:19
> 
> 	
> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> 	fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> ³­ËÍ
> 	Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem
> <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List
> <ospf@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
> Ö÷Ìâ
> 	Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xihua,
>                 For at least now, the OSPF work should be done in the
> OSPF WG.  The
> chairs of the various candidate WG are having some off-line discussions
> on were the requirements/RSVP work belongs.  We should have an answer
> for you by early next week.
> 
> Lou
> 
> PS Please don't cc ccamp-bounces@ietf.org on mail you send, it makes the
> mail system think your mail is a bounce!
> 
> On 6/29/2011 9:44 PM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
>> I have a question to chairs and the authors. Because there are more and
>> more documents appearing, we should think about how to move forward
>> these work.
>> What's your opinion?  
> 
> 

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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [OSPF] draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Updates to ASON Routing for OSPFv2 Protocols (RFC 5787bi=
s)
	Author(s)       : Andrew G. Malis
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2011-07-05

   The ITU-T has defined an architecture and requirements for operating
   an Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON).

   The Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) protocol suite
   is designed to provide a control plane for a range of network
   technologies including optical networks such as time division
   multiplexing (TDM) networks including SONET/SDH and Optical Transport
   Networks (OTNs), and lambda switching optical networks.

   The requirements for GMPLS routing to satisfy the requirements of
   ASON routing, and an evaluation of existing GMPLS routing protocols
   are provided in other documents.  This document defines extensions to
   the OSPFv2 Link State Routing Protocol to meet the requirements for
   routing in an ASON.

   Note that this work is scoped to the requirements and evaluation
   expressed in RFC 4258 and RFC 4652 and the ITU-T Recommendations
   current when those documents were written.  Future extensions of
   revisions of this work may be necessary if the ITU-T Recommendations
   are revised or if new requirements are introduced into a revision of
   RFC 4258.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt

From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Tue Jul  5 07:10:51 2011
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D945240414-05=
072011>Hi=20
Xihua,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945240414-05072011></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D945240414-05=
072011>i=20
fully agree with you. What i wanted to stress is the fact that in my opinio=
n it=20
must be possible to restore&nbsp;each intermediate&nbsp;layer=20
independently&nbsp;(i.e. ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA as you said) and not just the c=
lient=20
layer.&nbsp;The only thing&nbsp;i don't agree with you is that the type of =
label=20
has no impact on that. From what i understood of the multi stage label, it =
is=20
only fossible to restore the client layer.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945240414-05072011></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945240414-05072011>Thanks</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D945240414-05072011>Daniele</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 30 giugno 2011=20
10.37<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=20
VITTORIO)<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts=20
status<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi Daniele,</FONT> <BR><BR>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thank you for your further clarification.</FONT>=
=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>ODU0-ODU3-ODU4 hierarchy doesn't need =
to be=20
restore. It isn't a common concept in transport network. I haven't heard=20
it.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If you create ODU3 FA for e=
2e ODU0=20
connection or other connections (e.g., ODU2, ODU1), you may activate ODU3=20
restoration/protection first.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I=
f you=20
create ODU4 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or other connections (e.g., ODU3), y=
ou=20
may activate ODU4 restoration/protection first.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsan=
s-serif=20
size=3D2>It depends on what service you have created and network OAM=20
configuration.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>In my opinion, i=
t doesn't=20
matter with signaling label.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>Xihua</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"35%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-28 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:47</FO=
NT> </P>
    <TD width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, Khuzem=
a=20
            Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTOR=
IO=20
            (PIETRO VITTORIO)"=20
            &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalli=
ng=20
            drafts status</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
      <TABLE>
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
          <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FO=
NT face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Hi Xihua,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Let's c=
onsider=20
ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hieararchy as in your example. </FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblu=
e size=3D2>What=20
i meant was: if i have an ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy an operator migh=
t=20
want not to be forced to restore che whole hierarchy as it is (i.e.=20
ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4) along an ODU4 path, but, for example, restore the 2=
 ODU3=20
comprising the hieranchy in an independent manner and possibly on different=
=20
paths.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT=
=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Suppose that in your example the ODU4 li=
nk (L4-L5)=20
get broken. It could be possible to restore the path from H3 to H8 using a=
=20
different ODU4 link, or independetly restore the 2 ODU3 (e.g. an ODU3 along=
=20
H3-L6-L7-H8 and the other one along a different ODU3 path, which could be=20
H3-L8-L9-H8 ODU3 path not in figure). </FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Thanks,=
</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Daniele</FONT> <BR><BR>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011=20
14.02<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=20
VITTORIO)<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts=20
status</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Ds=
ans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>Hi All,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>[R8] is not clear for me. <BR>What is meanin=
g of=20
&nbsp;<I>ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy needs to be restored </I>?</FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>I d=
on't think=20
the activity of restoration will be different because of your label=20
usage.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-ser=
if=20
size=3D2><BR>As following figures illustrate, L4, L5, L6 and L7 couldn't su=
pport=20
ODU0 switching capability.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><=
FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>You could create ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA along H3=
-L4-L5-H8=20
for one e2e ODU0 connection.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT=
><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>After failure of fiber between L4 and L5. Op=
erator=20
may cofigure OAM to activate ODU3 or ODU4 FA restoration first. Operator ma=
y=20
also cofigure OAM to activate ODU0 restoration first.</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Wha=
tever you do,=20
we may switch the traffic to H3-L6-L7-H8.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif siz=
e=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>It depends on the OAM configura=
tion, for=20
example, which layer OAM could be activated.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D3>=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Single-Stage Label:</FONT><=
FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><IMG src=3D"cid:945240414@05072011-1=
EF6"><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>=
Multi-Stage=20
Label:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><IMG=20
src=3D"cid:945240414@05072011-1EFD"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></=
FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Xihua Fu</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
<BR><BR><BR></FONT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"22%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> <BR>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20
      &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-28 =CF=C2=CE=E7 05:21</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"77%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"4%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"95%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Khuzema Pithew=
an=20
            &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO &nbsp;=
=20
            &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(PIETRO VITTORIO)"=20
            &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;, 'CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling d=
rafts=20
            status</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue s=
ize=3D2><BR>Hi=20
Khuzema,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>thanks for the requirements and the=20
comparison.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=
=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>I have a question and would like to =
add some=20
requirements.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FON=
T=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Q1: Could you please clarify why R2 =
can be=20
addressed in a more scalable way and with better performances with the mult=
i=20
stage approach?</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><F=
ONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>[R7] Backward compatibility</FONT><F=
ONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblu=
e=20
size=3D2><BR>How could an RFC 6107 based implementation interwork with a no=
de=20
using the multistage label only?</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
<BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>[R8] Restorat=
ion per=20
layer</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Suppose to have a ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarch=
y that=20
needs to be restored and there is no ODU4 link available, but there are 2 O=
DU3=20
available on different paths and i could potentially restore the 2 ODU3=20
independently. Is this allowed by the multi stage label approach?</FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblu=
e=20
size=3D2><BR>Finally, i think that supporting both types of labels could be=
 a good=20
compromise, maybe the single stage one as mandatory and the multi stage as=
=20
optional</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>BR</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT=
><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Daniele</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-seri=
f size=3D3>=20
<BR><BR></FONT>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=20
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Khuzema=20
Pithewan<B><BR>Sent:</B> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 6.23<B><BR>To:</B> GRA=
NDI,=20
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [CCAMP] O=
TN=20
signalling drafts status</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this=20
off.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR>Hi CCampers, </FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri color=3D#1f497d=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR>We would like to provide more context to multi-stage label app=
roach=20
for better understanding. &nbsp;OTN is inherently a hierarchical network, a=
nd=20
there are/will be cases where service ODU has to go through mandatory creat=
ion=20
of more than one layer because of various technical/economic reasons. We ar=
e=20
listing here requirements for supporting services over hierarchical OTN=20
network.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman"=20
size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR>1. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R1] Support signaling mechanism to=20
instantiate ODUj service layer on a ODUk link via single stage muxing.=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalib=
ri=20
size=3D3><BR>A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (j&lt;k)=20
multiplexing on a given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data-plane=20
entities are created for the ODUj service layer. ODUk link could be a=20
point-to-point OTUk link or a H-LSP.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3=
>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>2. &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp;[R2]=20
Support signaling mechanism to instantiate one or more intermediate layers =
on a=20
ODUk link in order to support the ODUj service layer. <BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>A=
 ODUj LSP=20
could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk link. These=20
intermediate layers can be implicitly created as a part of ODUj service LSP=
=20
creation. In this case, both controlplane and dataplane entities will be cr=
eated=20
for the ODUj service layer. However, intermediate ODU layer(s) (implicitly=
=20
created) will have dataplane representation only. <BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>3=
. &nbsp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp;[R3] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj service l=
ayer=20
on a ODUk link where one or more intermediate ODU layers may be pre-existin=
g.=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalib=
ri=20
size=3D3><BR>A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a g=
iven=20
ODUk link. These intermediate layers may be pre-existing &nbsp;as a result =
of=20
another LSP creation on the same ODU hierarchy or explicitly configured thr=
ough=20
management interface. <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>4. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R4] Support signaling m=
echanism=20
where ODUj service LSP creation may involve varying mux hierarchies on each=
 hop=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalib=
ri=20
size=3D3><BR>An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creation may involve zero or mo=
re=20
stage ODU multiplexing on every hop in the path. Basically,the scenarios=20
discussed in R1 to R3 could be associated with any of the hops involved.=20
&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri=
=20
size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR>5. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R5] Support signaling mechanism for eg=
ress=20
control of OTN interfaces <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>An egress interface=
 of a ODUj=20
LSP could involve single or multiple stage multiplexing. Egress Label sub-o=
bject=20
defined in [RFC-4003] must be used to signal hierarchical multiplexing=20
information pertaining to the egress interface of the LSP. &nbsp;=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalib=
ri=20
size=3D3><BR>6. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R6] Support signaling mechanism when O=
DUj=20
service LSP creation requires induced or manually created H-LSP.</FONT><FON=
T=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri color=3D#1f497d=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR>Based on the above requirements, following is the comparison b=
etween=20
two drafts under discussion.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT=
><FONT=20
face=3DCalibri color=3D#1f497d size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=
=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri color=3D#1f497d size=3D2><BR></F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT>=20
<P>
<TABLE width=3D"100%" border=3D4>
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"9%" bgColor=3D#c4bc96><FONT face=3DCalibri=20
      size=3D3>Requirement</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD width=3D"38%" bgColor=3D#c4bc96><FONT face=3DCalibri=20
      size=3D3>Draft-Zhang</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD width=3D"52%" bgColor=3D#c4bc96><FONT face=3DCalibri=20
      size=3D3>Draft-Khuzema</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT=
>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>R1</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
      </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-ser=
if=20
      size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-ser=
if=20
      size=3D3> </FONT>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>R2</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
      </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-OD=
U=20
      layers</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves=20
      scalability and better restoration performance.</FONT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>R3</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
      </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported using H-LSPs for each non-e=
xisting=20
      HO-ODU layers </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported without H-LSPs</FONT><FONT=
=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>R4</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
      </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-OD=
U=20
      layers</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported without H-LSPs</FONT><FONT=
=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>R5</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
      </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Not Supported</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans=
-serif=20
      size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-ser=
if=20
      size=3D3> </FONT>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>R6</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
      </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported using H-LSP</FONT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
    <TD><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3>Supported using=20
H-LSP</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR></FO=
NT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri color=3D#1f497=
d=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DCalibri=20
size=3D3><BR>Would like to hear opinions.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif siz=
e=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DCalibri size=3D3><BR>Authors=20
draft-khuzema</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DC=
alibri=20
color=3D#1f497d size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;=
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DCalibri color=3D#1f497d size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=
=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B><BR>From:</B>=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<B><BR>Sent:</B> Monday, June =
27,=20
2011 6:53 PM<B><BR>To:</B> 'CCAMP'<B><BR>Subject:</B> [CCAMP] OTN signallin=
g=20
drafts status</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>Hello CCampers,</FON=
T><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><BR>Currently two drafts exist for the signaling of LSPs in OTN=20
technology.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DTah=
oma=20
size=3D2><BR>The two drafts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709 a=
nd=20
<BR>draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709, contain a lot of=20
similarities</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DTa=
homa=20
size=3D2><BR>but are fundamentally different with respect to the support of=
=20
multi-stage technology.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FON=
T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>Draft-zhang proposes=
 to deal=20
with multi-stage technology via the usage</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif siz=
e=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC=
6107.=20
With this approach all LSPs</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>belonging to intermediate layers of a hierarchy =
are=20
signaled as separate H-LSPs.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT=
><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>Monitoring, protection and restoration functiona=
lities=20
are applicable independently to each LSP. </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Ro=
man"=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><BR>Draft-khuzema proposes to introduce a new multi-stage label co=
ncept=20
so that</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma=
=20
size=3D2><BR>a single construct contains labels associated to more then one=
=20
hierarchical level.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT fa=
ce=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><BR>This implies that all level in the OTN &nbsp;hierarchy with th=
e=20
exclusion of service levels</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>are not visible as single LSPs. <BR>Each layer c=
annot be=20
independently monitored.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>Only the service layer (the layer with the fines=
t=20
granularity) can be protected or restored.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif si=
ze=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans=
-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>Advantages and disad=
vantages of=20
both approaches can be summarized in short, telling that</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>the H-L=
SP approach=20
is able to work in any situation while the multi-stage label approach is=20
suitable <BR>on single hops or similar situations (reached signaling before=
 an=20
H-LSP) but, when used, <BR>optimizes processing.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-se=
rif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-=
serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>As such we perceive =
the=20
Draft-khuzema approach as an optimization that could be supported in an opt=
ional=20
way.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New=
 Roman"=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><BR>Before going on with merging of the two drafts we would like t=
o hear=20
opinions from CCampers. &nbsp; &nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D=
3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans=
-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><BR>Pietro &amp; Sergio<=
/FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Pietro V=
ittorio=20
Grandi</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans=
-serif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate=20
(Italy)</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>Tel: +39 039 686 4930</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=
=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Mail:=20
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif siz=
e=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Put your=
 hand on a=20
hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-=
serif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Sit with a pretty girl for=
 an hour,=20
and it seems like a &nbsp;minute. That's relativity.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsan=
s-serif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>(A. Einstein)</FONT><FONT=
=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Trebuchet MS" size=3D2><BR=
></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2><TT>_______________________________________________<BR>CCAMP maili=
ng=20
list<BR>CCAMP@ietf.org<BR>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</TT><=
/FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR></P></BODY></HTML>

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From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Tue Jul  5 07:20:25 2011
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 16:20:18 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison response to request for review
of OSPFv2 extensions for ASON routing submission (ref. TD 552 (WP 3/15))"
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 16:03:26 -0000
From: Liaison Statement Management Tool <lsmt@ietf.org>
To: lberger@labn.net,  dbrungard@att.com
CC: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel
<adrian@olddog.co.uk>,	Common Control and Measurement Plane Discussion
List <ccamp@ietf.org>,	<yoichi.maeda@ttc.or.jp>,
<steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>,	<kam.lam@alcatel-lucent.com>,
<Hiroshi.OTA@itu.int>,	<tsbsg15@itu.int>, Hing-Kam Lam
<Kam.Lam@alcatel-lucent.com>

Title: Liaison response to request for review of OSPFv2 extensions for
ASON routing submission (ref. TD 552 (WP 3/15))
Submission Date: 2011-06-29
URL of the IETF Web page: /liaison/1060/

From: ITU-T SG 15 (optical control plane) (Greg Jones <Greg.Jones@itu.int>)
To: Common Control and Measurement Plane (lberger@labn.net,
dbrungard@att.com)
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>,Adrian Farrel
<adrian@olddog.co.uk>,Common Control and Measurement Plane Discussion
List
<ccamp@ietf.org>,<yoichi.maeda@ttc.or.jp>,<steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>,<kam.lam@alcatel-lucent.com>,<Hiroshi.OTA@itu.int>,<tsbsg15@itu.int>
Reponse Contact: Hing-Kam Lam <Kam.Lam@alcatel-lucent.com>
Technical Contact:
Purpose: For information

Body:
Attachment(s):

    Liaison response to request for review of OSPFv2 extensions for ASON
routing submission (ref. TD 552 (WP 3/15))
https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file1235.pdf







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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Hello Xihua Fu,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>if I have correctly interpreted your mail, you a=
re
saying that in case of multi-stage label representing for instance ODU0 ove=
r
ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>only ODU0s can be restored. <o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Of course there is no difference between an ODU0=
 LSP
signaled without multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>an ODU0 LSP signaled with multistage label, if w=
e
restore the ODU0. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>But of course in the case in which multi-stage l=
abel
has not been used the ODU3 is restorable too, while in the<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>multi-stage label case ODU3 cannot be restored.<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Moreover I would remark that existing NMS may ne=
ed huge
changes to support multi-stage label because<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>it &nbsp;works =A1=B0top-down=A1=B1 while NMS wo=
rk =A1=B0buttom up=A1=B1
that is : they need that ODU3 terminations are set before<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>allowing the set-up of a client ODU0 LSP. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:
Arial'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span></=
font><span
lang=3DEN-US> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> =
<br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution</span></font><spa=
n
lang=3DEN-US> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:co=
untry-region
 w:st=3D"on">Italy</st1:country-region></st1:place>)</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Tel: +39 039 686 4930</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> <=
br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</span></=
font><span
lang=3DEN-US> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems =
like
an hour.</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like
a&nbsp; minute. That's relativity.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:
Arial'>(A. Einstein)</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> marted=A8=AC 5 luglio =
2011 16.24<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP';
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
VITTORIO)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: RE: Re: [CCAMP]=
 OTN
signalling drafts status</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DS=
imSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Hi Daniele,</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>There
should be a clarification. Based on the network operation, if operator want=
 to
configure ODU4 FA-LSP, multi-stage label could support this requirement by
trigger signaling. </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>But
one issue should be same where the operator should face the risk to trigger=
 a
lot of ODU0 restoration when ODU3 or ODU4 FA-LSP restoration/protection
couldn't resolve the failure.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>If
you agree with this, there should be no difference between single and multi
stage label to deal with failure.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Xihua
Fu</span></font> <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
 style=3D'width:100.0%'>
 <tr>
  <td width=3D"35%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Daniele Ceccarelli
  &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></font></b><font size=3D1
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>=
 </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  <p><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-f=
amily:
  sans-serif'>2011-07-05 </span></font><font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span></font><font size=3D1 face=
=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> 10:10</span></font> <o:=
p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"64%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
   style=3D'width:100.0%'>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=
=C8=CB</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&quot;
    &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;,
    &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, Khuz=
ema
    Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
    (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&g=
t;</span></font>
    <o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts sta=
tus</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DS=
imSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Xihua,</span></font> <br>
<font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span=
></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:
Arial;color:blue'>i fully agree with you. What i wanted to stress is the fa=
ct
that in my opinion it must be possible to restore each intermediate layer
independently (i.e. ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA as you said) and not just the client
layer. The only thing i don't agree with you is that the type of label has =
no
impact on that. From what i understood of the multi stage label, it is only
fossible to restore the client layer.</span></font> <br>
<font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span=
></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:
Arial;color:blue'>Thanks</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:
Arial;color:blue'>Daniele</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 face=
=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><span style=3D'font-wei=
ght:
bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> gioved=A8=AC 30 giugno 2011 10.37<b><span style=3D'font-we=
ight:bold'><br>
To:</span></b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI,
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span></fo=
nt><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'><br>
Hi Daniele,</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family=
:sans-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
Thank you for your further clarification.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-se=
rif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-=
serif><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
ODU0-ODU3-ODU4 hierarchy doesn't need to be restore. It isn't a common conc=
ept
in transport network. I haven't heard it.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-se=
rif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-=
serif><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
If you create ODU3 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or other connections (e.g., O=
DU2,
ODU1), you may activate ODU3 restoration/protection first.</span></font><fo=
nt
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans=
-serif'><br>
If you create ODU4 FA for e2e ODU0 connection or other connections (e.g.,
ODU3), you may activate ODU4 restoration/protection first.</span></font><fo=
nt
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans=
-serif'><br>
It depends on what service you have created and network OAM configuration.<=
/span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans=
-serif'><br>
In my opinion, it doesn't matter with signaling label.</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
Xihua</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-=
serif'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
 style=3D'width:100.0%'>
 <tr>
  <td width=3D"20%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:20.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;dan=
iele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></font></b><font
  size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:san=
s-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  <p><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-f=
amily:
  sans-serif'>2011-06-28 </span></font><font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span></font><font size=3D1 face=
=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> 09:47</span></font><fon=
t
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"79%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:79.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
   style=3D'width:100.0%'>
   <tr>
    <td width=3D"4%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:4.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=
=C8=CB</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D"95%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:95.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&quot;
    &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
    style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;,
    &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, Khuz=
ema
    Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
    (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&g=
t;</span></font><font
    face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font=
><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts sta=
tus</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=
=3DSimSun><span
  style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
   style=3D'width:100.0%'>
   <tr>
    <td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DS=
imSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif=
'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Hi Xihua,</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:s=
ans-serif'>
<br>
&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Let's consider ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hieararchy as in your example. </span=
></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
What i meant was: if i have an ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy an operator
might want not to be forced to restore che whole hierarchy as it is (i.e.
ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4) along an ODU4 path, but, for example, restore the 2
ODU3 comprising the hieranchy in an independent manner and possibly on
different paths.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:
sans-serif'> <br>
&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Suppose that in your example the ODU4 link (L4-L5) get broken. It could be
possible to restore the path from H3 to H8 using a different ODU4 link, or
independetly restore the 2 ODU3 (e.g. an ODU3 along H3-L6-L7-H8 and the oth=
er
one along a different ODU3 path, which could be H3-L8-L9-H8 ODU3 path not i=
n
figure). </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:s=
ans-serif'><br>
&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Thanks,</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:san=
s-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Daniele</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:san=
s-serif'>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 face=
=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><span style=3D'font-wei=
ght:
bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.02<b><span style=3D'font-we=
ight:bold'><br>
To:</span></b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI,
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> Re: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span></fo=
nt><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Hi All,</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:san=
s-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
[R8] is not clear for me. <br>
What is meaning of &nbsp;<i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>ODU1-&gt;ODU3=
-&gt;ODU4
hierarchy needs to be restored </span></i>?</span></font><font face=3Dsans-=
serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-=
serif><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
I don't think the activity of restoration will be different because of your
label usage.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
As following figures illustrate, L4, L5, L6 and L7 couldn't support ODU0
switching capability.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-=
serif><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
You could create ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA along H3-L4-L5-H8 for one e2e ODU0
connection.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family=
:sans-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
After failure of fiber between L4 and L5. Operator may cofigure OAM to acti=
vate
ODU3 or ODU4 FA restoration first. Operator may also cofigure OAM to activa=
te
ODU0 restoration first.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-=
serif><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
Whatever you do, we may switch the traffic to H3-L6-L7-H8.</span></font><fo=
nt
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans=
-serif'><br>
It depends on the OAM configuration, for example, which layer OAM could be
activated.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:=
sans-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Single-Stage Label:</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:
sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><img width=3D795 height=3D378 id=3D"_x0000_i1027"
src=3D"cid:image001.gif@01CC3B32.6B90D840"><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Multi-Stage Label:</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font=
-family:
sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><img width=3D793 height=3D380 id=3D"_x0000_i1028"
src=3D"cid:image002.gif@01CC3B32.6B90D840"><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Xihua Fu</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sa=
ns-serif'>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
 style=3D'width:100.0%'>
 <tr>
  <td width=3D"22%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:22.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Daniele Ceccarelli
  &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></font></b><font size=3D1
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>=
 <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'=
>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></font><font
  size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:san=
s-serif'>:
  &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  <p><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-f=
amily:
  sans-serif'>2011-06-28 </span></font><font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span></font><font size=3D1 face=
=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> 05:21</span></font><fon=
t
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"77%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
   style=3D'width:100.0%'>
   <tr>
    <td width=3D"4%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:4.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=
=C8=CB</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D"95%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:95.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Khuzema Pithewan
    &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO &nbsp; &n=
bsp;
    &nbsp; &nbsp;(PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;
    &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;, 'CCAMP'
    &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
    style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status<=
/span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=
=3DSimSun><span
  style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
  <br>
  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
   style=3D'width:100.0%'>
   <tr>
    <td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt=
 .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DS=
imSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif=
'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
<br>
Hi Khuzema,</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family=
:sans-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
thanks for the requirements and the comparison.</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
I have a question and would like to add some requirements.</span></font><fo=
nt
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Q1: Could you please clarify why R2 can be addressed in a more scalable way=
 and
with better performances with the multi stage approach?</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
[R7] Backward compatibility</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
How could an RFC 6107 based implementation interwork with a node using the
multistage label only?</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
[R8] Restoration per layer</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Suppose to have a ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy that needs to be restore=
d
and there is no ODU4 link available, but there are 2 ODU3 available on
different paths and i could potentially restore the 2 ODU3 independently. I=
s
this allowed by the multi stage label approach?</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
Finally, i think that supporting both types of labels could be a good
compromise, maybe the single stage one as mandatory and the multi stage as
optional</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sa=
ns-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><br>
BR</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-ser=
if'> </span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;
color:blue'><br>
Daniele</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:san=
s-serif'>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Khuzema Pithewan<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 6.23<b><span style=3D'font-wei=
ght:bold'><br>
To:</span></b> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span></font><=
font
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
<br>
Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this off.</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
Hi CCampers, </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
We would like to provide more context to multi-stage label approach for bet=
ter
understanding. &nbsp;OTN is inherently a hierarchical network, and there
are/will be cases where service ODU has to go through mandatory creation of
more than one layer because of various technical/economic reasons. We are
listing here requirements for supporting services over hierarchical OTN
network.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sa=
ns-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
1. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R1] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj=
 service
layer on a ODUk link via single stage muxing. </span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (j&lt;k) multiplexing on=
 a
given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data-plane entities are create=
d
for the ODUj service layer. ODUk link could be a point-to-point OTUk link o=
r a
H-LSP.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans=
-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
2. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R2] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate one =
or
more intermediate layers on a ODUk link in order to support the ODUj servic=
e
layer. </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:san=
s-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk lin=
k.
These intermediate layers can be implicitly created as a part of ODUj servi=
ce
LSP creation. In this case, both controlplane and dataplane entities will b=
e
created for the ODUj service layer. However, intermediate ODU layer(s)
(implicitly created) will have dataplane representation only. </span></font=
><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
3. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R3] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj
service layer on a ODUk link where one or more intermediate ODU layers may =
be
pre-existing. </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:
sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage multiplexing on a given ODUk lin=
k.
These intermediate layers may be pre-existing &nbsp;as a result of another =
LSP
creation on the same ODU hierarchy or explicitly configured through managem=
ent
interface. </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family=
:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
4. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R4] Support signaling mechanism where ODUj service =
LSP
creation may involve varying mux hierarchies on each hop </span></font><fon=
t
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creation may involve zero or more stage ODU
multiplexing on every hop in the path. Basically,the scenarios discussed in=
 R1
to R3 could be associated with any of the hops involved. &nbsp;</span></fon=
t><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
5. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R5] Support signaling mechanism for egress control =
of
OTN interfaces </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:
sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
An egress interface of a ODUj LSP could involve single or multiple stage
multiplexing. Egress Label sub-object defined in [RFC-4003] must be used to
signal hierarchical multiplexing information pertaining to the egress inter=
face
of the LSP. &nbsp; </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:
sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
6. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R6] Support signaling mechanism when ODUj service L=
SP
creation requires induced or manually created H-LSP.</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
Based on the above requirements, following is the comparison between two dr=
afts
under discussion.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-=
family:
sans-serif'> <br>
<br>
&nbsp;</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D1 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
 style=3D'width:100.0%;border:outset 3.0pt'>
 <tr>
  <td width=3D"9%" valign=3Dtop bgcolor=3D"#C4BC96" style=3D'width:9.0%;bac=
kground:
  #C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Requirement</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><sp=
an
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"38%" valign=3Dtop bgcolor=3D"#C4BC96" style=3D'width:38.0%;b=
ackground:
  #C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Draft-Zhang</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><sp=
an
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"52%" valign=3Dtop bgcolor=3D"#C4BC96" style=3D'width:52.0%;b=
ackground:
  #C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Draft-Khuzema</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><=
span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>R1</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>R2</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span>=
</font><font
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported without H-LSPs. Achieves scalability and
  better restoration performance.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><spa=
n
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>R3</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported using H-LSPs for each non-existing HO-ODU
  layers </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported without H-LSPs</span></font><font
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>R4</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span>=
</font><font
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported without H-LSPs</span></font><font
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>R5</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Not Supported</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><=
span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>R6</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported using H-LSP</span></font><font
  face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><=
o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;
  font-family:Calibri'>Supported using H-LSP</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif=
'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
Would like to hear opinions.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><br>
Authors draft-khuzema</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]=
 <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
(PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 27, 2011 6:53 PM<b><span style=3D'font-weight=
:bold'><br>
To:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Hello CCampers,</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:
sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Currently two drafts exist for the signaling of LSPs in OTN technology.</sp=
an></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
<br>
The two drafts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709 and <br>
draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709, contain a lot of similarities</sp=
an></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
<br>
but are fundamentally different with respect to the support of multi-stage
technology.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family=
:sans-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Draft-zhang proposes to deal with multi-stage technology via the usage</spa=
n></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
<br>
of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC6107. With this approach all LSPs</span>=
</font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
<br>
belonging to intermediate layers of a hierarchy are signaled as separate
H-LSPs.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:san=
s-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Monitoring, protection and restoration functionalities are applicable
independently to each LSP. </span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Draft-khuzema proposes to introduce a new multi-stage label concept so that=
</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
<br>
a single construct contains labels associated to more then one hierarchical
level.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans=
-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
This implies that all level in the OTN &nbsp;hierarchy with the exclusion o=
f
service levels</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:
sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font=
-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
are not visible as single LSPs. <br>
Each layer cannot be independently monitored.</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
<br>
Only the service layer (the layer with the finest granularity) can be prote=
cted
or restored.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Advantages and disadvantages of both approaches can be summarized in short,
telling that</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
the H-LSP approach is able to work in any situation while the multi-stage l=
abel
approach is suitable <br>
on single hops or similar situations (reached signaling before an H-LSP) bu=
t,
when used, <br>
optimizes processing.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
As such we perceive the Draft-khuzema approach as an optimization that coul=
d be
supported in an optional way.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Before going on with merging of the two drafts we would like to hear opinio=
ns
from CCampers. &nbsp; &nbsp;</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
Pietro &amp; Sergio</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:
sans-serif'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:
Arial'><br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span></font><fon=
t
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><b=
r>
Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif=
><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Tel: +39 039 686 4930</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span
style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</span></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><b=
r>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span></font><fon=
t
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><b=
r>
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.</span=
></font><font
face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><b=
r>
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a &nbsp;minute. That'=
s
relativity.</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-family=
:sans-serif'>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:
Arial'><br>
(A. Einstein)</span></font><font face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:sans-serif'>
<br>
</span></font><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>_______________________________________________</fo=
nt></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>CCAMP mailing list</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>CCAMP@ietf.org</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</font><=
/tt><o:p></o:p></p>

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--_005_D89B562FE4A5B341B18808FB8441CC7C17749F76FRMRSSXCHMBSB1d_--

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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
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Hi CCAMPers, none of the changes to the current WSON WG drafts listed 
below are necessary to achieve the stated goals, i.e., the current 
mechanisms suffice please see details below. We can offer an offline 
tutorial session to interested parties in Quebec city as it seems there 
is a lack of understanding of (a) the current WSON drafts, and (b) GMPLS 
protocols in general.

Best Regards
Greg

On 7/4/2011 8:02 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hello CCAMPer's,
>
> Following Lou's suggestion, this email intends to summarize the main changes introduced by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, viewed from the information model, we end-up with 3 of them:
>      0. IMPORTANT REMINDER OF ONE OF THE PIECES THAT WAS NOT CHANGED: Resource block = group of devices with same features and same connectivity constraints.
>
>      1. Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which allows the definition of several resource entites per node independantly floodable.
> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or tear down). (Resource Pool = group of resource blocks with same connectivity constraints)
--> There is already a standard mechanism in OSPF-TE for achieving this 
(multiple LSA instances) which is already in common use in MPLS and 
GMPLS so this change is unneeded. The current WSON encoding model 
includes very fine granularity in sub-TLVs hence this change would not 
achieve the stated "MOTIVATION" any better than the current approach.
>      2. Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external links and the resource pools.
> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit the number of connectivity representations introduced by current extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs).
>
--> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with "wson 
specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the 
CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change does 
not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable mixing of 
separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include separation of 
relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information, hence this change 
is unnecessary.
>      3. Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to keep only resource/device description (moved the number of devices away).
> MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same devices) blocks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of information. b/ to create an independent flooding entity holding all the resource descriptions (which are static), the decreasing the size of updated information.
--> This change (a) does not result in any size savings, and (b) is not 
necessary to "to create an independent flooding entity holding all the 
resource descriptions".  Resource block information is already a 
separate sub-TLV and the current resource block set mechanism provides a 
highly efficient method to indicate which resources blocks are 
associated with a particular type of resource.


> Best regards,
>
> Cyril, Giovanni, Julien and Pierre
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Lou Berger
> Envoyé : mardi 28 juin 2011 16:57
> À : Leeyoung; draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo@tools.ietf.org
> Cc : ccamp@ietf.org
> Objet : [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Tue Jul  5 08:24:52 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of 
issue with the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of 
regenerators or wavelength converters are used in an optical system of 
some sort.  This is not true. The current WSON related WG drafts provide 
mechanisms commonly used in GMPLS routing and signaling. However these 
mechanisms do not furnish a "unique representation" of a given problem 
and never have. It is up to the user of the GMPLS routing or signaling 
protocol to choose the most appropriate mechanism, e.g., "range" or 
"list" to achieve an efficient encoding. Note that this is true of many 
standards beyond GMPLS.

In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource 
pool connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or 
more different types of wavelength converters in this case) can be 
efficiently encoded. We also demonstrate that this encoding is 
minimalistic.  The analysis proceeds from a high level description of 
the system including a block diagram of system structure, and includes 
descriptions of the pertinent sub-TLVs used from the existing WSON WG 
documents, and their scaling properties.  As such one can see that the 
current WSON WG drafts excel in their ability to handle this case 
without further modification.l

Best Regards

Greg

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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Example: 

Figure 1 shows another example of the wavelength converter pool 
architecture known as "shared per fiber".  

                 +-----------+                      +------+ 
                 |           |--------------------->|      | 
                 |           |--------------------->|  C   | 
           /|    |           |--------------------->|  o   | 
          /D+--->|           |--------------------->|  m   | 
         + e+--->|           |                      |  b   |========> 
========>| M|    |  Optical  |       +-----+        |  i   | Port E1 
Port I1  + u+--->|   Switch  |       | WC  |        |  n   | 
          \x+--->|           |       |Group|        |  e   | 
           \|    |           +------>|  A  |------->|  r   | 
                 |           |       +-----+        +------+ 
                 |           |                      +------+ 
           /|    |           |       +-----+        |      | 
          /D+--->|           +------>| WC  |------->|  C   | 
         + e+--->|           |       |Group|        |  o   | 
========>| M|    |           |       |  B  |        |  m   |========> 
Port I2  + u+--->|           |       +-----+        |  b   | Port E2 
          \x+--->|           |--------------------->|  i   | 
           \|    |           |--------------------->|  n   | 
                 |           |--------------------->|  e   | 
                 |           |--------------------->|  r   | 
                 |           |                      +------+ 
                 |           | 
                 |           |     Similar structure        ========> 
                 |           |     with WC groups C and      Port E3 
                 |           |     D and combiners for 
                 |           |     ports E3 and E4 
                 |           |                              ========> 
                 +-----------+                               Port E4          
                                        
 Figure 1 An optical switch featuring a shared per fiber wavelength 
                    converter pool architecture. 

The wavelength converter (WC) pool is composed of four wavelength 
converter groups A-D. Each WC Group consists of NG (number in group) 
wavelength converters. In addition within each WC Group there are NT 
(number of types) of wavelength converters. 

To characterize the wavelength converter resource pool we need to 
specify the resource pool accessibility sub-TLV and the resource 

block information sub-TLV. We assigned resource block IDs 
sequentially to the wavelength converters in each group.  

 
This resource pool accessibility sub-TLV can be encoded as follows:  
 

    0                   1                   2                   3 
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   | Connectivity=1|                    Reserved                   | 
               Note: I1-I4 can connect to any Wavelength converter 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |0 1|0 0 0 0 0 0|            Length = 12        | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     Link Local Identifier = #1                | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     Link Local Identifier = #4                | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |1|  Reserved   |            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           RB ID = #1          |       RB ID = #Total blocks   | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
                 Note: WC Group A can only connect to E1 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |1 0|0 0 0 0 0 0|            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     Link Local Identifier = #1                | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |0|  Reserved   |            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           RB ID = #1          |       RB ID = NG              | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
                     Note: WC Group B can only connect to E2 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |1 0|0 0 0 0 0 0|            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     Link Local Identifier = #2                | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |0|             |            Length = 8         |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           RB ID = #NG+1       |       RB ID = #2*NG           | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
 

                 Note: WC Group C can only connect to E3 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |1 0|0 0 0 0 0 0|            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     Link Local Identifier = #3                | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |0|  Reserved   |            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           RB ID = #2*NG+1     |       RB ID = 3*NG            | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
                     Note: WC Group D can only connect to E4 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |1 0|0 0 0 0 0 0|            Length = 8         | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     Link Local Identifier = #4                | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |  Action=0     |0|             |            Length = 8         |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           RB ID = #3NG+1      |       RB ID = #4*NG           | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
 

In this architecture specifying the ingress connectivity took 6 words, 
while specifying the group structure per output port takes 4 words 
per egress port. Hence in this 4 egress port example specifying the 
resource pool accessibility takes only 22 words or 176 bytes. 

Next we need to encode the ResourceBlockInfo sub-TLV. We need NT 
(number of WC type) number of these sub-TLV, i.e., one for each type 
of wavelength converter. Within this sub-TLV the amount of space 
required for each type of wavelength converter is fixed. For 
different sized switches and assuming a worse case assignment of 
wavelength converter types to the port based resource groups makes 
the resource block set a simple list of resource block IDs (16 bits) 
with length 1 + ceil{(Num WC total)/(2*NT)} words.  Note this adds to 
the length of fixed description of the wavelength converter 
properties and does not multiply it. For example assume 10 different 
types of wavelength converters, and 200 wavelength converters total 
in this example switch then this RB set field only takes 1+200/20 = 
11 words or 44 bytes.  Given the info properties take approximately 
32 words or (128 bytes) then the approximate total number of bytes 
per resource type (Resource block info sub-TLV) is 172 bytes and we 
would need NT=10 of these. 

Note that one must describe at least once: 

(a)The properties of a type of wavelength converter 

(b) The set of wavelength converters that belong to a particular 
     type. 

The current WSON encoding is efficient in that the above information 
in not repeated more than once. 

    0                   1                   2                   3 
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |                     RB Set Field                              | 
   :         List of resource WC IDs that are of this type         |    
   |         Length in words = 1 + ceil{(Num WC total)/(2*NT)}     | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |0|0|                      Reserved                             | 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           Input Modulation Type List Sub-Sub-TLV              | 
   :        (The receivers can only process NRZ)                   : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |           Input FEC Type List Sub-Sub-TLV                     | 
   :           (Only Standard SDH and G.709 FECs)                  : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |         Input Client Signal Type Sub-TLV                      | 
   :              (GPIDs for SDH and G.709)                        : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |         Input Bit Rate Range List  Sub-Sub-TLV                | 
   :                          (2.5Gbps, 10Gbps)                    : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |         Processing Capabilities List Sub-Sub-TLV              | 
   :                    Fixed (non optional) 3R regeneration       : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |         Output Modulation Type List Sub-Sub-TLV               | 
   :                          NRZ                                  : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
   |         Output FEC Type List Sub-Sub-TLV                      | 
   :                 Standard SDH, G.709 FECs                      : 
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 


--------------010109090905090407030501--

From agmalis@gmail.com  Tue Jul  5 08:43:42 2011
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 11:43:19 -0400
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This morning I uploaded a new revision of draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis.
This revision only has a couple of small changes, to respond to the
following editorial comments that came from Q14/SG15 in an informal
email to the editors:

1.         Section 4.  Change =93ASON TRIs=94 to =93ASON SNPPs=94
2.         Informative References.  Change =93Draft Rec. G.7715.1=94 to
=93Rec. G.7715.1=94

While making change #2, I made sure that all of the references to
ITU-T recommendations were correct, and made a few other small
editorial corrections there as well.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Andy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:  <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:58 AM
Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and
Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : Updates to ASON Routing for OSPF=
v2 Protocols
(RFC 5787bis)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Author(s) =A0 =A0 =A0 : Andrew G. Malis
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Acee Lindem
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Filename =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Pages =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : 27
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Date =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: 2011-07-05

=A0 The ITU-T has defined an architecture and requirements for operating
=A0 an Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON).

=A0 The Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) protocol suite
=A0 is designed to provide a control plane for a range of network
=A0 technologies including optical networks such as time division
=A0 multiplexing (TDM) networks including SONET/SDH and Optical Transport
=A0 Networks (OTNs), and lambda switching optical networks.

=A0 The requirements for GMPLS routing to satisfy the requirements of
=A0 ASON routing, and an evaluation of existing GMPLS routing protocols
=A0 are provided in other documents. =A0This document defines extensions to
=A0 the OSPFv2 Link State Routing Protocol to meet the requirements for
=A0 routing in an ASON.

=A0 Note that this work is scoped to the requirements and evaluation
=A0 expressed in RFC 4258 and RFC 4652 and the ITU-T Recommendations
=A0 current when those documents were written. =A0Future extensions of
=A0 revisions of this work may be necessary if the ITU-T Recommendations
=A0 are revised or if new requirements are introduced into a revision of
=A0 RFC 4258.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02.txt
_______________________________________________
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 06:32:27 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Snipped, comments inline ...

Sent from my iPhone

>=20
> The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2 LSP
> to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the endpoints
> of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the hierarchical
> ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1
> LSP.
>=20
> [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration are
> impacting on it.

JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method

> At least two important questions have to be answered
> too:
>=20
> 1) Which is the de-allocation policy of the intermediate stages.

JD:  A reasonable default would be to remove a set of intermediate switchin=
g stage LSPs when there are no more ODUj LSPs requiring that set

> 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate stages
> ?

JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding priorities=
 of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate switching stage LSP=
s.

This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.  The =
sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs introduces a =
number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up and holding priori=
ties between the intermediate switching stage LSPs as well as between these=
 LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.  These error cases and their r=
amifications would need to be analyzed and addressed. =20

This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you say t=
here is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs using LSP =
hierarchy

> This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-
> empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).

JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted,=
 followed by my reply to 1), above

>=20
> This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it has
> the following characteristics:
>=20
> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism is
> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I mean
> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
>=20
> Only the second is completely new.

JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required to sup=
port them both from an architecture and development perspective is under di=
scussion

>=20
> 1)  The sub-layer LSPs share fate with the containing hierarchical LSP
>=20
> [[PG]] If I have well understood your hypothesis in your example ODU1 -
> > ODU2 -> ODU3, it must be that  ODU2 and ODU3 have terminations on the
> same
> interfaces. That same interfaces must be also able to demux ODU1 for
> switching.
> This MAY be true or not dependently from implementation of
> the mux/demux. If the mux/demux function is obtained cascading two
> interfaces within the same NE you can have a failure in the
> intermediate stage without having it in the ODUk. Probably in the case
> of cascaded interfaces the first method should be preferable.

JD:  My point was that if the containing hierarchical LSP fails, all of the=
 intermediate switching stage LSPs also fail.

Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate switchi=
ng stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the other endpoi=
nt regardless of the method used to initially establish that LSP, because t=
his is strictly internal to the node at which the LSP failed.

>=20
> 3)  Similarly, and for the same reason, OAM for these sub-layer LSPs
> can only be done between the endpoints of the containing hierarchical
> LSPs.  AS AN ASIDE, control plane control of OTN OAM in general is in a
> nascent state and this construct has not been considered at all.
>=20
> [[PG]] If the operator chooses so and the function is not obtained with
> cascaded boards.

JD:  I don't understand your point

>=20
> 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> construct.
>=20
> [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
> conceptually for OTN.

JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how the int=
ermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network management =
plane would neither understand nor care how the intermediate switching stag=
e LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two methods produce identica=
l results

>=20
> 5)  From a layer network perspective, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> LSP and the ODUj LSPs for which it is being used to switch would be
> visible BUT the sub-layer LSPs would not be.
>=20
> [[PG]] Yes. But it is an operator choice, not an HW implementation.

JD:  I don't understand your point

>=20
> AND AGAIN, items 1) through 5) above are INVARIANT REGARDLESS of which
> of the two methods is selected to establish the sub-layer LSP within
> the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP.
>=20
> [[PG]] John this is another point of disagreement. The conditions are
> not invariant.
> With H-LSPs only you do not need to care about points 1 to 5 while
> instead all the conditions have to be satisfied in order to go with
> multi-stage labels and some of the conditions are operator choices not
> HW constraints. We should make in such a way that an operator can
> choose
> not to use the mechanism (even by error)

JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any dependency in =
them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching stage LSPs=
=20

From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul  6 06:51:45 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 06:49:49 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3D"#606420"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I th=
ink the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP is restored first regardless of wh=
ich method is used to establish the intermediate switching stage LSP within=
 it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div st=
yle=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>=
<div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt=
 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITT=
ORIO)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> fu.xihua=
@zte.com.cn; Daniele Ceccarelli<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'>Hello Xihua Fu,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>if I have correctly interpreted your m=
ail, you are saying that in case of multi-stage label representing for inst=
ance ODU0 over ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>only ODU0s can be r=
estored. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"'>Of course there is no difference between an ODU0 LSP signaled wit=
hout multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>an ODU0 LSP si=
gnaled with multistage label, if we restore the ODU0. <o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",=
"sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>But of course in th=
e case in which multi-stage label has not been used the ODU3 is restorable =
too, while in the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>multi-stage label case =
ODU3 cannot be restored.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Moreover I would remark that existing NMS may need=
 huge changes to support multi-stage label because<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"'>it &nbsp;works =A1=B0top-down=A1=B1 while NMS work =A1=B0buttom u=
p=A1=B1 that is : they need that ODU3 terminations are set before<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>allowing the set-up=
 of a client ODU0 LSP. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Pietro<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span> <br><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Terrestrial Op=
tics Portfolio Evolution</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)</span> <br><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Tel: +39 039 =
686 4930</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'>Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</span> <br><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span> <br><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Put your hand on a hot stov=
e for a minute, and it seems like an hour.</span> <br><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sit with a pretty girl for an =
hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute. That's relativity.</span><span lang=
=3DIT> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif"'>(A. Einstein)</span> <span lang=3DIT><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr s=
ize=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fu.xih=
ua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <br><b>Sent:</b> marted=A8=AC 5 =
luglio 2011 16.24<br><b>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; c=
camp-bounces@ietf.org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VI=
TTORIO)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status=
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span=
 lang=3DIT><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Daniele,</span><span lang=3DIT> <br><br></span><s=
pan lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>T=
here should be a clarification. Based on the network operation, if operator=
 want to configure ODU4 FA-LSP, multi-stage label could support this requir=
ement by trigger signaling. </span><span lang=3DIT><br></span><span lang=3D=
IT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>But one issu=
e should be same where the operator should face the risk to trigger a lot o=
f ODU0 restoration when ODU3 or ODU4 FA-LSP restoration/protection couldn't=
 resolve the failure.</span><span lang=3DIT> <br></span><span lang=3DIT sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If you agree with =
this, there should be no difference between single and multi stage label to=
 deal with failure.</span><span lang=3DIT> <br><br></span><span lang=3DIT s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Xihua Fu</span><=
span lang=3DIT> <br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable=
 border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td w=
idth=3D"35%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .7=
5pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif"'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&g=
t;</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif=
"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif"'>2011-07-05 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:=
7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> 10:10</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"64%" valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><table class=
=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:=
100.0%'><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-C=
N style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><t=
d valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span> <o:p></o:p></p>=
</td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH=
-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td va=
lign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt=
;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt;, Khuzema Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI,=
 PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel=
-lucent.com&gt;</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright sty=
le=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=
=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .7=
5pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .7=
5pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DIT><br><br><br></span><span lang=3DIT s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hi Xi=
hua,</span><span lang=3DIT> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT> <br></span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue=
'>i fully agree with you. What i wanted to stress is the fact that in my op=
inion it must be possible to restore each intermediate layer independently =
(i.e. ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA as you said) and not just the client layer. The on=
ly thing i don't agree with you is that the type of label has no impact on =
that. From what i understood of the multi stage label, it is only fossible =
to restore the client layer.</span><span lang=3DIT> <br></span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
IT> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks</span><span lang=3DIT> <br></span><span l=
ang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:b=
lue'>Daniele</span><span lang=3DIT> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT><hr size=
=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mail=
to:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><br>Sent:</b> gioved=A8=AC 30 giugno 2011 10.37<=
b><br>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><br>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>Subj=
ect:</b> RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT><br>=
</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'><br>Hi Daniele,</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Thank you for your further clarification.</s=
pan><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><spa=
n lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br=
>ODU0-ODU3-ODU4 hierarchy doesn't need to be restore. It isn't a common con=
cept in transport network. I haven't heard it.</span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>If you create ODU3 FA fo=
r e2e ODU0 connection or other connections (e.g., ODU2, ODU1), you may acti=
vate ODU3 restoration/protection first.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>If you create ODU4 FA for e2e OD=
U0 connection or other connections (e.g., ODU3), you may activate ODU4 rest=
oration/protection first.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>It depends on what service you have created an=
d network OAM configuration.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>In my opinion, it doesn't matter with signa=
ling label.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif"'><br>Xihua</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT><o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=
=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:=
100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"20%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:20.0%;padding:.75=
pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5p=
t;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarel=
li@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5p=
t;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2011-06-28 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN st=
yle=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 09:47</span><span style=3D'font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"79%" valign=3D=
top style=3D'width:79.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpaddi=
ng=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"4%" valign=3D=
top style=3D'width:4.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"95%=
" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:95.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'>&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></=
tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN st=
yle=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt;cca=
mp@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org&gt;, Khuzema Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIE=
TRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-luc=
ent.com&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt =
.75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'>=
<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'>RE: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><o:p></o:p></p></td>=
</tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=
=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p></td><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;pa=
dding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></=
td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DIT><br></span><=
span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br></span><s=
pan lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";co=
lor:blue'><br>Hi Xihua,</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Let's consider ODU0-&gt;ODU=
3-&gt;ODU4 hieararchy as in your example. </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>What i me=
ant was: if i have an ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy an operator might wa=
nt not to be forced to restore che whole hierarchy as it is (i.e. ODU0-&gt;=
ODU3-&gt;ODU4) along an ODU4 path, but, for example, restore the 2 ODU3 com=
prising the hieranchy in an independent manner and possibly on different pa=
ths.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>=
&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Suppose that in your example the ODU4 link (L4=
-L5) get broken. It could be possible to restore the path from H3 to H8 usi=
ng a different ODU4 link, or independetly restore the 2 ODU3 (e.g. an ODU3 =
along H3-L6-L7-H8 and the other one along a different ODU3 path, which coul=
d be H3-L8-L9-H8 ODU3 path not in figure). </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Thanks,<=
/span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><s=
pan lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";co=
lor:blue'><br>Daniele</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT><o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT><hr size=
=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mail=
to:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><br>Sent:</b> marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.02<=
b><br>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><br>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org; Khuzema Pithewan; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>Subj=
ect:</b> Re: Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts status</span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>Hi All,</sp=
an><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span=
 lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>=
<br>[R8] is not clear for me. <br>What is meaning of &nbsp;<i>ODU1-&gt;ODU3=
-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy needs to be restored </i>?</span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>I don't think the activi=
ty of restoration will be different because of your label usage.</span><spa=
n lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>As fo=
llowing figures illustrate, L4, L5, L6 and L7 couldn't support ODU0 switchi=
ng capability.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif"'><br>You could create ODU3 FA or ODU4 FA along H3-L4-L5-H8 for=
 one e2e ODU0 connection.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>After failure of fiber between L4 and L5. Oper=
ator may cofigure OAM to activate ODU3 or ODU4 FA restoration first. Operat=
or may also cofigure OAM to activate ODU0 restoration first.</span><span la=
ng=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Whatever yo=
u do, we may switch the traffic to H3-L6-L7-H8.</span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>It depends on the OAM co=
nfiguration, for example, which layer OAM could be activated.</span><span l=
ang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>Single=
-Stage Label:</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT><img width=3D795 height=3D378 id=3D"_x0000_=
i1027" src=3D"cid:image001.gif@01CC3BA8.E6814DC0"></span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>Multi-Sta=
ge Label:</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 <br></span><span lang=3DIT><img width=3D793 height=3D380 id=3D"_x0000_i102=
8" src=3D"cid:image002.gif@01CC3BA8.E6814DC0"></span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>Xihua Fu</sp=
an><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span=
 lang=3DIT><o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 c=
ellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"22%" =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:22.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b>=
<span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></spa=
n><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>: &nbsp;ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <=
/span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif"'>2011-06-28 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt=
'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'> 05:21</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <=
/span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"77%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:77.=
0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"4%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:4.0=
%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=
=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"95%" valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:95.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Khuzema Pithewa=
n &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp;(PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=
lucent.com&gt;, 'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7=
.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padd=
ing:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></td=
></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [CCAMP] OTN=
 signalling drafts status</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table cla=
ss=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'widt=
h:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.=
75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></td><td =
width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .=
75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DIT><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br><br>Hi Khu=
zema,</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br=
></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif";color:blue'><br>thanks for the requirements and the comparison.</sp=
an><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><=
span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:blue'><br>I have a question and would like to add some requirements.</=
span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span=
><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><br>Q1: Could you please clarify why R2 can be addressed in a =
more scalable way and with better performances with the multi stage approac=
h?</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></=
span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif";color:blue'><br>[R7] Backward compatibility</span><span lang=3DIT styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>How coul=
d an RFC 6107 based implementation interwork with a node using the multista=
ge label only?</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>[R8] Restoration per layer</span><span lan=
g=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3D=
IT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><=
br>Suppose to have a ODU1-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy that needs to be rest=
ored and there is no ODU4 link available, but there are 2 ODU3 available on=
 different paths and i could potentially restore the 2 ODU3 independently. =
Is this allowed by the multi stage label approach?</span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Final=
ly, i think that supporting both types of labels could be a good compromise=
, maybe the single stage one as mandatory and the multi stage as optional</=
span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span=
><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><br>BR</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Daniele</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DIT><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Khuzema Pithewan<b><br>Sent:</b> marte=
d=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 6.23<b><br>To:</b> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO V=
ITTORIO); 'CCAMP'<b><br>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN signalling drafts stat=
us</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><=
br>Thanks Pietro and Sergio for starting this off.</span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Hi CCampers, </span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>We would like to provide =
more context to multi-stage label approach for better understanding. &nbsp;=
OTN is inherently a hierarchical network, and there are/will be cases where=
 service ODU has to go through mandatory creation of more than one layer be=
cause of various technical/economic reasons. We are listing here requiremen=
ts for supporting services over hierarchical OTN network.</span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DI=
T style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>1. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[=
R1] Support signaling mechanism to instantiate ODUj service layer on a ODUk=
 link via single stage muxing. </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif"'><br>A ODUj LSP could involve zero (j=3Dk) or one stage (=
j&lt;k) multiplexing on a given ODUk link. Here both Control-plane and Data=
-plane entities are created for the ODUj service layer. ODUk link could be =
a point-to-point OTUk link or a H-LSP.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>2. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R2] Support signalin=
g mechanism to instantiate one or more intermediate layers on a ODUk link i=
n order to support the ODUj service layer. </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>A ODUj LSP could involve two or more sta=
ge multiplexing on a given ODUk link. These intermediate layers can be impl=
icitly created as a part of ODUj service LSP creation. In this case, both c=
ontrolplane and dataplane entities will be created for the ODUj service lay=
er. However, intermediate ODU layer(s) (implicitly created) will have datap=
lane representation only. </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif"'><br>3. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R3] Support signaling mechanism t=
o instantiate ODUj service layer on a ODUk link where one or more intermedi=
ate ODU layers may be pre-existing. </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>A ODUj LSP could involve two or more stage mult=
iplexing on a given ODUk link. These intermediate layers may be pre-existin=
g &nbsp;as a result of another LSP creation on the same ODU hierarchy or ex=
plicitly configured through management interface. </span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>4. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R4] Sup=
port signaling mechanism where ODUj service LSP creation may involve varyin=
g mux hierarchies on each hop </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif"'><br>An end-to-end ODUj service LSP creation may involve z=
ero or more stage ODU multiplexing on every hop in the path. Basically,the =
scenarios discussed in R1 to R3 could be associated with any of the hops in=
volved. &nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-ser=
if"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
"'><br>5. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R5] Support signaling mechanism for egress c=
ontrol of OTN interfaces </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif"'><br>An egress interface of a ODUj LSP could involve single or =
multiple stage multiplexing. Egress Label sub-object defined in [RFC-4003] =
must be used to signal hierarchical multiplexing information pertaining to =
the egress interface of the LSP. &nbsp; </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fon=
t-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>6. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[R6] Support signali=
ng mechanism when ODUj service LSP creation requires induced or manually cr=
eated H-LSP.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif=
"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'=
><br>Based on the above requirements, following is the comparison between t=
wo drafts under discussion.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif"'> <br><br>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT> <o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D1 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"=
 style=3D'width:100.0%;border:outset 3.0pt'><tr><td width=3D"9%" valign=3Dt=
op style=3D'width:9.0%;background:#C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Req=
uirement</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:=
p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"38%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:38.0%;backgr=
ound:#C4BC96;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Draft-Zhang</span><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D=
"52%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:52.0%;background:#C4BC96;padding:.75pt .7=
5pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif"'>Draft-Khuzema</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padd=
ing:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R1</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75p=
t .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif"'>Supported</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt=
 .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif"'>Supported</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-s=
erif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'paddi=
ng:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R2</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt=
 .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported without H-LSP=
s. Achieves scalability and better restoration performance.</span><span sty=
le=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><t=
r><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R3</span><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td va=
lign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-LSPs fo=
r each non-existing HO-ODU layers </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dt=
op style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported without H-LSPs</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td>=
</tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R4</span><=
span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td=
><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-=
LSPs for each HO-ODU layers</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt=
 .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif"'>Supported without H-LSPs</span><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop=
 style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R5</span><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Not Supported</span><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop st=
yle=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported</span><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>R6</span><span style=3D'font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop s=
tyle=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-LSP</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Supported using H-LSP</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><spa=
n lang=3DIT><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'><br><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if"'><br>Would like to hear opinions.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Authors draft-khuzema</span><span lang=3DIT s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br><br></span><b><span lang=3DI=
T style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>From:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Beh=
alf Of </b>GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<b><br>Sent:</b> Monday=
, June 27, 2011 6:53 PM<b><br>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<b><br>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] OT=
N signalling drafts status</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Hello CCampers,</span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Currently two d=
rafts exist for the signaling of LSPs in OTN technology.</span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>The two draf=
ts, namely draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709 and <br>draft-khuzema-ccam=
p-gmpls-signaling-g709, contain a lot of similarities</span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>but are fundame=
ntally different with respect to the support of multi-stage technology.</sp=
an><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><=
span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'=
><br>Draft-zhang proposes to deal with multi-stage technology via the usage=
</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><=
span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'=
><br>of H-LSPs as already defined in RFC6107. With this approach all LSPs</=
span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><sp=
an lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><=
br>belonging to intermediate layers of a hierarchy are signaled as separate=
 H-LSPs.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif"'><br>Monitoring, protection and restoration functionalities are app=
licable independently to each LSP. </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Draft-khuzema proposes to introd=
uce a new multi-stage label concept so that</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>a single construct contains=
 labels associated to more then one hierarchical level.</span><span lang=3D=
IT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>This implies th=
at all level in the OTN &nbsp;hierarchy with the exclusion of service level=
s</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>=
<span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'><br>are not visible as single LSPs. <br>Each layer cannot be independentl=
y monitored.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif=
"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'><br>Only the service layer (the layer with the finest granular=
ity) can be protected or restored.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Advantages and disadvantages of =
both approaches can be summarized in short, telling that</span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>the H-LSP ap=
proach is able to work in any situation while the multi-stage label approac=
h is suitable <br>on single hops or similar situations (reached signaling b=
efore an H-LSP) but, when used, <br>optimizes processing.</span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DI=
T style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>As such =
we perceive the Draft-khuzema approach as an optimization that could be sup=
ported in an optional way.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>Before going on with merging of the two =
drafts we would like to hear opinions from CCampers. &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><s=
pan lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span =
lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>=
Pietro &amp; Sergio</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif"'><br>Pietro Vittorio Grandi</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evoluti=
on</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span=
><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'><br>Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Tel: +39 039 686 4930</span><span=
 lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3D=
IT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Mail: pi=
etro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, a=
nd it seems like an hour.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it see=
ms like a &nbsp;minute. That's relativity.</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>(A. Einstein)</span><span lan=
g=3DIT style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span lang=3D=
IT><br><tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br><tt>CCAM=
P mailing list</tt><br><tt>CCAMP@ietf.org</tt><br><tt>https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/ccamp</tt><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>=

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--_005_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8E18F20EMBX01HQjnprn_--

From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com  Wed Jul  6 07:26:30 2011
Return-Path: <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:26:19 -0500
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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References: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A88459D7@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <D89B562FE4A5B341B18808FB8441CC7C176EA7F9@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A0173A67A@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A899EE83@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <00a801cc363a$c6c6eb70$5454c250$@com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A899F371@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <005c01cc36cc$ded3c2f0$9c7b48d0$@com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A68BE9@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <007e01cc36f5$2dd9fd10$898df730$@com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A69780@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <00c401cc3920$0e6f65a0$0501a8c0@user> <26BE7302-C3BD-4D3C-8153-ACDB3FD82E3B@juniper.net> <4E108FA0.1040703@labn.net> <F325F329-2FF5-4ECF-8FEC-3F80799B1CC2@juniper.net> <4E10A994.9010004@labn.net> <2B33B885-12A0-412B-A353-AE08A84496B8@juniper.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From lberger@labn.net  Wed Jul  6 07:38:03 2011
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Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 10:38:04 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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John,
	A couple of things on your mail.

On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>...
>> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism is
>> > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I mean
>> > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
>> > 
>> > Only the second is completely new.
> JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
> to support them both from an architecture and development perspective
> is under discussion
> 

Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.  The
only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
message (which BTW has also been done before, just not standardized.)

> ... 
>> > 
>> > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
>> > construct.
>> > 
>> > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
>> > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
>> > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
>> > conceptually for OTN.
> JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> the intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, 

Again, not sure why you're saying this, the *only* thing I see as new is
a standards based way of signaling multiple levels of hierarchy in a
single message.

On an a side, existing signaling uses interface semantics to bind
together hierarchy levels.  Perhaps those are the semantics we should be
considering rather than label semantics to bind multiple levels together
(assuming "multistage/multilevel" signaling is something the WG decides
to pursue.)

Lou

From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Wed Jul  6 07:46:09 2011
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 07:47:28 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 07:53:44 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Lou,

Comments inline.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:38 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
> John,
> 	A couple of things on your mail.
>=20
> On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >...
> >> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> is
> >> > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> mean
> >> > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
> LSP).
> >> >
> >> > Only the second is completely new.
> > JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
> > to support them both from an architecture and development perspective
> > is under discussion
> >
>=20
> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.  The
> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not standardized.)

JD:  A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more intermediate s=
tage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the endpoints of the co=
ntaining hierarchical LSP.  I think this is a new construct;  if you were t=
o tell me that Movaz did this ten years ago I would have to believe you and=
 add it my list of Movaz-specific GMPLS extensions.


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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:09:26 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:26:04 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:31:58 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 11:53:43 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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John,
	See below.

On 7/6/2011 10:53 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> Comments inline.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:38 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> John,
>> 	A couple of things on your mail.
>>
>> On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
>> is
>>>>> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
>> mean
>>>>> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
>> LSP).
>>>>>
>>>>> Only the second is completely new.
>>> JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
>>> to support them both from an architecture and development perspective
>>> is under discussion
>>>
>>
>> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
>> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
>> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.  The
>> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
>> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not standardized.)
> 
> JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
> intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
> endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP. 

I'm having a really hard time parsing this sentence.  I terms familiar
to me include label stacks, H-LSPs, FAs, Upper and Lower (from MLN/MRN),
channel sets, calls, VCGs, etc.  "containing hierarchical LSP" and
"intermediate stage switching LSPs" are not.  I'm not sure which is
upper/lower or inner/outer...  Can you rephrase?

>I think this is a new
> construct; 

I think there may be some new CP constructs, but as you pointed out in
an earlier mail, the label stack / DP is not.

> if you were to tell me that Movaz did this ten years ago I
> would have to believe you and add it my list of Movaz-specific GMPLS
> extensions.

Movaz had a specific proprietary multi-layer construct (I don't know if
it's still used in deployments or not) that went the other way, i.e.,
overlayed multiple (port-based) services on top of what was essentially
an H-LSP.  This approach, while possibly saving some per-LSP state, had
many issues and I really don't think that this approach would be
suitable for standardization.

I was actually thinking of early RSVP-TE (3209) drafts that included a
label stack instead of a single label.  I don't know if anyone ever
implemented or deployed this, but the idea certainly was at least
floated in the early days of TE.

Lou


From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Wed Jul  6 09:13:40 2011
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 16:13:29 +0000
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Lou,

Movaz data service construct is very different from the ODUk multi-stage pr=
ovisioning, IMO the two have nothing in common, I don't understand why you =
brought it up.

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:54 AM
To: John E Drake
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

John,
	See below.

On 7/6/2011 10:53 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Lou,
>=20
> Comments inline.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:38 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> John,
>> 	A couple of things on your mail.
>>
>> On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
>> is
>>>>> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
>> mean
>>>>> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
>> LSP).
>>>>>
>>>>> Only the second is completely new.
>>> JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
>>> to support them both from an architecture and development perspective
>>> is under discussion
>>>
>>
>> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
>> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
>> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.  The
>> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
>> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not standardized.)
>=20
> JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
> intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
> endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP.=20

I'm having a really hard time parsing this sentence.  I terms familiar
to me include label stacks, H-LSPs, FAs, Upper and Lower (from MLN/MRN),
channel sets, calls, VCGs, etc.  "containing hierarchical LSP" and
"intermediate stage switching LSPs" are not.  I'm not sure which is
upper/lower or inner/outer...  Can you rephrase?

>I think this is a new
> construct;=20

I think there may be some new CP constructs, but as you pointed out in
an earlier mail, the label stack / DP is not.

> if you were to tell me that Movaz did this ten years ago I
> would have to believe you and add it my list of Movaz-specific GMPLS
> extensions.

Movaz had a specific proprietary multi-layer construct (I don't know if
it's still used in deployments or not) that went the other way, i.e.,
overlayed multiple (port-based) services on top of what was essentially
an H-LSP.  This approach, while possibly saving some per-LSP state, had
many issues and I really don't think that this approach would be
suitable for standardization.

I was actually thinking of early RSVP-TE (3209) drafts that included a
label stack instead of a single label.  I don't know if anyone ever
implemented or deployed this, but the idea certainly was at least
floated in the early days of TE.

Lou

_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul  6 09:24:48 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 09:21:05 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Igor,

I'm sorry, it was a joke.  Lou has a long habit of ending GMPLS debates by =
alluding to Movaz proprietary extensions.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 9:13 AM
> To: Lou Berger; John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
> Lou,
>=20
> Movaz data service construct is very different from the ODUk multi-
> stage provisioning, IMO the two have nothing in common, I don't
> understand why you brought it up.
>=20
> Igor
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Lou Berger
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>=20
> John,
> 	See below.
>=20
> On 7/6/2011 10:53 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> > Lou,
> >
> > Comments inline.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:38 AM
> >> To: John E Drake
> >> Cc: CCAMP
> >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >>
> >> John,
> >> 	A couple of things on your mail.
> >>
> >> On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>>> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first
> mechanism
> >> is
> >>>>> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> >> mean
> >>>>> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
> >> LSP).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Only the second is completely new.
> >>> JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
> >>> to support them both from an architecture and development
> perspective
> >>> is under discussion
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
> >> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
> >> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.
> The
> >> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
> >> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not
> standardized.)
> >
> > JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
> > intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
> > endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP.
>=20
> I'm having a really hard time parsing this sentence.  I terms familiar
> to me include label stacks, H-LSPs, FAs, Upper and Lower (from
> MLN/MRN),
> channel sets, calls, VCGs, etc.  "containing hierarchical LSP" and
> "intermediate stage switching LSPs" are not.  I'm not sure which is
> upper/lower or inner/outer...  Can you rephrase?
>=20
> >I think this is a new
> > construct;
>=20
> I think there may be some new CP constructs, but as you pointed out in
> an earlier mail, the label stack / DP is not.
>=20
> > if you were to tell me that Movaz did this ten years ago I
> > would have to believe you and add it my list of Movaz-specific GMPLS
> > extensions.
>=20
> Movaz had a specific proprietary multi-layer construct (I don't know if
> it's still used in deployments or not) that went the other way, i.e.,
> overlayed multiple (port-based) services on top of what was essentially
> an H-LSP.  This approach, while possibly saving some per-LSP state, had
> many issues and I really don't think that this approach would be
> suitable for standardization.
>=20
> I was actually thinking of early RSVP-TE (3209) drafts that included a
> label stack instead of a single label.  I don't know if anyone ever
> implemented or deployed this, but the idea certainly was at least
> floated in the early days of TE.
>=20
> Lou
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From lberger@labn.net  Wed Jul  6 09:31:57 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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On 7/6/2011 12:13 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> Movaz data service construct is very different from the ODUk
> multi-stage provisioning, 

Igor,
	I believe I said as much in my mail.  I only brought it up in response
to John's comment regarding Movaz 10 years ago...

Lou

>...

> IMO the two have nothing in common, I don't
> understand why you brought it up.
> 
> Igor
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> 
> John,
> 	See below.
> 
> On 7/6/2011 10:53 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>> Lou,
>>
>> Comments inline.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:38 AM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>
>>> John,
>>> 	A couple of things on your mail.
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
>>> is
>>>>>> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
>>> mean
>>>>>> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
>>> LSP).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only the second is completely new.
>>>> JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
>>>> to support them both from an architecture and development perspective
>>>> is under discussion
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
>>> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
>>> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.  The
>>> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
>>> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not standardized.)
>>
>> JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
>> intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
>> endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP. 
> 
> I'm having a really hard time parsing this sentence.  I terms familiar
> to me include label stacks, H-LSPs, FAs, Upper and Lower (from MLN/MRN),
> channel sets, calls, VCGs, etc.  "containing hierarchical LSP" and
> "intermediate stage switching LSPs" are not.  I'm not sure which is
> upper/lower or inner/outer...  Can you rephrase?
> 
>> I think this is a new
>> construct; 
> 
> I think there may be some new CP constructs, but as you pointed out in
> an earlier mail, the label stack / DP is not.
> 
>> if you were to tell me that Movaz did this ten years ago I
>> would have to believe you and add it my list of Movaz-specific GMPLS
>> extensions.
> 
> Movaz had a specific proprietary multi-layer construct (I don't know if
> it's still used in deployments or not) that went the other way, i.e.,
> overlayed multiple (port-based) services on top of what was essentially
> an H-LSP.  This approach, while possibly saving some per-LSP state, had
> many issues and I really don't think that this approach would be
> suitable for standardization.
> 
> I was actually thinking of early RSVP-TE (3209) drafts that included a
> label stack instead of a single label.  I don't know if anyone ever
> implemented or deployed this, but the idea certainly was at least
> floated in the early days of TE.
> 
> Lou
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From lberger@labn.net  Wed Jul  6 09:36:32 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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John,
	Sorry about ruining your joke (and alluding to something the IETF did
~13 years ago.)

Lou

On 7/6/2011 12:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Igor,
> 
> I'm sorry, it was a joke.  Lou has a long habit of ending GMPLS debates by alluding to Movaz proprietary extensions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 9:13 AM
>> To: Lou Berger; John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> Lou,
>>
>> Movaz data service construct is very different from the ODUk multi-
>> stage provisioning, IMO the two have nothing in common, I don't
>> understand why you brought it up.
>>
>> Igor
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of Lou Berger
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:54 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>
>> John,
>> 	See below.
>>
>> On 7/6/2011 10:53 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Lou,
>>>
>>> Comments inline.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:38 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>> 	A couple of things on your mail.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2011 9:32 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first
>> mechanism
>>>> is
>>>>>>> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
>>>> mean
>>>>>>> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
>>>> LSP).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only the second is completely new.
>>>>> JD: Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. The amount of work required
>>>>> to support them both from an architecture and development
>> perspective
>>>>> is under discussion
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
>>>> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
>>>> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.
>> The
>>>> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
>>>> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not
>> standardized.)
>>>
>>> JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
>>> intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
>>> endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP.
>>
>> I'm having a really hard time parsing this sentence.  I terms familiar
>> to me include label stacks, H-LSPs, FAs, Upper and Lower (from
>> MLN/MRN),
>> channel sets, calls, VCGs, etc.  "containing hierarchical LSP" and
>> "intermediate stage switching LSPs" are not.  I'm not sure which is
>> upper/lower or inner/outer...  Can you rephrase?
>>
>>> I think this is a new
>>> construct;
>>
>> I think there may be some new CP constructs, but as you pointed out in
>> an earlier mail, the label stack / DP is not.
>>
>>> if you were to tell me that Movaz did this ten years ago I
>>> would have to believe you and add it my list of Movaz-specific GMPLS
>>> extensions.
>>
>> Movaz had a specific proprietary multi-layer construct (I don't know if
>> it's still used in deployments or not) that went the other way, i.e.,
>> overlayed multiple (port-based) services on top of what was essentially
>> an H-LSP.  This approach, while possibly saving some per-LSP state, had
>> many issues and I really don't think that this approach would be
>> suitable for standardization.
>>
>> I was actually thinking of early RSVP-TE (3209) drafts that included a
>> label stack instead of a single label.  I don't know if anyone ever
>> implemented or deployed this, but the idea certainly was at least
>> floated in the early days of TE.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From lberger@labn.net  Wed Jul  6 11:29:38 2011
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Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:29:40 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Fwd: draft-ietf-tsvwg-intserv-multiple-tspec-00 submitted
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Just an FYI -- I thought some may be interested in this work in the
TSVWG as it may end up being applicable/useful for GMPLS usage.  Note
all discussion on this document belongs on tsvwg@ietf.org *not* ccamp.

Lou
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: draft-ietf-tsvwg-intserv-multiple-tspec-00 submitted
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:17:20 -0500
From: James M. Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com>
To: tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>

TSVWG

(with my individual hat on)

We'd like to draw your attention to the newest WG item within TSVWG.

The authors made only a couple of individual modifications from the
individual version that was approved as a WG item:

- clarified how this extension also extends RFC 4495 (RSVP Bandwidth
Reduction), and
- added some text to the security considerations section

The top item has to do with good network hygiene - correcting as soon
as possible when too much BW was reserved (that is no longer needed)
within part of a reservation setup. The latter item was directly from
a review comment.

Both of these we thought we low hanging fruit, so we put them in this
version. Any further changes needs WG approval in our opinion.

Comments are encouraged and/or requested.

James & Subha

>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories. This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working 
>Group Working Group of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : Integrated Services (IntServ) Extension 
> to Allow Signaling of Multiple Traffic Specifications and Multiple 
> Flow Specifications in RSVPv1
>         Author(s)       : James Polk
>                           Subha Dhesikan
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-tsvwg-intserv-multiple-tspec-00.txt
>         Pages           : 26
>         Date            : 2011-07-03
>
>    This document defines extensions to Integrated Services (IntServ)
>    allowing  multiple traffic specifications and multiple flow
>    specifications to be conveyed in the same Resource Reservation
>    Protocol (RSVPv1) reservation message exchange. This ability helps
>    optimize an agreeable bandwidth through a network between endpoints
>    in a single round trip.
>
>
>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-intserv-multiple-tspec-00.txt
>
>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-intserv-multiple-tspec-00.txt
>_______________________________________________
>I-D-Announce mailing list
>I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt






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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John,

=20

I think you misinterpreted Daniele=A1=AFs scenario and my question in =
another
email. I am trying to make a clarification here together.

=20

(1)Daniele=A1=AFs scenario

=20

In Daniele=A1=AFs scenario, Node C cannot support ODU1 switching, it =
performs
ODU2 into ODU3. I illustrated this scenario, but replacing ODU1 with =
ODU0 to
make it more understandable. In this scenario, Node C cannot support =
ODU0
switching.

=20

Do you think multi-stage labels can handle this scenario? If yes, how to
create ODU0 LSP with multi-stage labels?



=20

(2) Another scenario from me (that you misinterpreted in another email).

=20

In the following secnario, if Node C cannot support ODU3 switching, how =
you
can create ODU0 LSP with multi-stage labels?

=20



=20

=20

Thanks

=20

Fatai

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C26=C8=D5 23:26
To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

=20

Daniele,

=20

I think the short answer is yes.  I wouldn't necessarily describe this
situation as asymmetric because it is actually pair-wise symmetric; =
i.e., A
& B support ODU1 switching directly, B & C support ODU1 switching over a
containing hierarchical ODU2 LSP (without multi-stage labels), C & D =
support
ODU1 switching over an ODU2 intermediate stage switching LSP (with
multi-stage label) within a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP, and D & E
support ODU1 switching directly.

=20

Thanks,

=20

John

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]

> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:20 AM

> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Hi John and all,

>=20

> There is a quite common scenario that i don't understand whether it is

> supported or not by the multistage label.

> The scenario is simply a path where the multistage hierarchy is built

> as a sequence of multiple single stages.

> E.g.

>=20

> A ------- B ---------- C -------------- D ------ E

>     ODU1  +                             |  ODU1

>           |                             |

>           + ODU1->ODU2 +                +

>                        |                |

>                        +ODU1->ODU2->ODU3+

>=20

> This is an "asymmetric" scenario, in which an ODU1 is carried from A =
to

> B, it is muxed into an ODU2 in B and sent as ODU1->ODU2 from B to C,

> then another single stage muxing is performed muxing the ODU1->ODU2

> into an ODU3 and the ODU1->ODU2->ODU3 is carried form C to D. Node D

> performes a dual stage demuxing and extracts the ODU1. The ODU1 is =
then

> delivered to E.

>=20

> Is the multistage label able to set-up this kind of path?

>=20

> I would like to have a single method too, but unless all scenarios are

> covered also by the multi-stage label method i would prefer to have =
the

> sequential path messges as a must and the multi-stage method as

> optional.

>=20

> Thanks

> Daniele

>=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

> Of John E Drake

> Sent: domenica 3 luglio 2011 15.23

> To: Fatai Zhang

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Fatai,

>=20

> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about

> using 'intermediate switching stage LSP'?

>=20

> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second paragraph.  I

> thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method, either

> sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establish

> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no reason =
to

> support both.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang"

> <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>> wrote:

>=20

> John,

>=20

> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?

>=20

> If not, I would like to step further to make something explicit.

>=20

> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough resource on

> link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if Node C =
can

> not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3 termination, how you can

> create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?

>=20

> Could you explain a little more?

>=20

>=20

> Fatai

>=20

> Thanks

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>

> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor

> Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>

> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Fatai,

>=20

> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in =
response

> to Pietro=A1=AFs email.  I think it also addresses the points in your =
email,

> below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analysis of it by you.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]

> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM

> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> VITTORIO)'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Hi John,

>=20

> OK, Let=A1=AFs converge.

>=20

> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used for

> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example below,

> we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ie.,

> ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP and then use

> one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For these two ways, there is no

> need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can understand that these

> two ways are better and more efficient than your approach (two stages

> (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).

>=20

> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to give

> the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer for multi-

> stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage

> labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect unified solution.

> If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this approach to

> use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they can just choose

> single stage + H-LSP.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Fatai

>=20

> Thanks

>=20

>=20

>=20

> From: John E Drake

> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> Sent: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C230=C8=D5 12:13

> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO

> (PIETRO VITTORIO)'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Fatai,

>=20

> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on links, in

> which case the =A1=AEcontaining hierarchical LSP=A1=AF is the =
link=A1=AFs OUDk/OTUk,

> and they would be more efficient than signaling multiple one hop sub-

> layer LSPs.

>=20

> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because

> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network in

> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage =
hierarchical

> LSPs.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

>=20

> From: John E Drake

> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> Sent: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C230=C8=D5 11:37

> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> VITTORIO)'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Fatai,

>=20

> Comments inline.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> From: Fatai Zhang

> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM

> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> VITTORIO)'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Hi John,

>=20

> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly by

> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before =
ODU0

> request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is already

> there.

>=20

> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an email I =
sent

> you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that you create =
the

> containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it to establish  OUDj

> client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as needed, with the =
sub-

> layer LSPs being established using one of the two proposals being

> discussed.

>=20

> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.

>=20

> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-

> LSP concept there.

>=20

> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds it,

> establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and then

> *either*

>=20

>=20

> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then sends the

> ODU0 Path message to D *OR*

>=20

> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage

> label for the ODU2 LSP

>=20

> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be regarded

> as one-hop, because there is no difference between one-hop FA and one-

> hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop scenario

> rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this sentence that we

> are trying to make you understood many times).

>=20

> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didn=A1=AFt think =
multi-stage

> labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and that I only

> considered them useful in the context of multi-hop multistage

> hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing hierarchical

> LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.

>=20

> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example, why it

> needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not just use the

> simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please review our slides

> again to get more information about cons of multi-stage muxing(slide

> 5).

>=20

> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your figure I =
had

> mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had an

> interesting scenario to discuss.

>=20

> Thanks

>=20

> Fatai

>=20

> From: John E Drake

> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> Sent: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C229=C8=D5 23:39

> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> VITTORIO)'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Fatai,

>=20

> Let=A1=AFs assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node =
B and

> node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the sub-layer

> hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer ODU2

> hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.  With =
multi-

> stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stage

> label.

>=20

> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-

> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage labels,

> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isn=A1=AFt enough =
difference

> between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> From: Fatai Zhang

> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM

> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> VITTORIO)'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

>=20

> Hi John,

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper

> wording. Let=A1=AFs discuss tech.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple =
example

> shown below.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node E

> by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic

> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv message? =
What

> action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or Resv

> message?

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> <image001.png>

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Thanks

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Fatai

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-

> bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of

> John E Drake

> Sent: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C229=C8=D5 6:12

> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Igor,

>=20

>=20

>=20

> I have a few clarifications.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical

> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)

>=20

>=20

>=20

> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for

> the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage

> switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the

> containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which =
provide

> context for intermediate stage labels, between the same two endpoints.

> This is a new construct and there are almost certainly details to be

> worked out.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I would

> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

>=20

>=20

> John

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > From: Igor Bryskin

> >

> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.

> > com]>

>=20

> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM

>=20

> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

>=20

> > Cc: CCAMP

>=20

> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Hi Pietro,

>=20

> >

>=20

> > You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps

> saying

>=20

> > repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.

>=20

> > 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information pertinent to

>=20

> > network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem

> > stupid

>=20

> > to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient =
a

>=20

> > single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and

> > support

>=20

> > numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, =
etc.

>=20

> > just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;

>=20

> > 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as identification of =
a

>=20

> > new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS

> god-

>=20

> > fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control

> > the

>=20

> > resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.

>=20

> > 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage

>=20

> > provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Cheers,

>=20

> > Igor

>=20

> >

>=20

> > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>

> > ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>

> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> bounces@ietf.org]

> > > On Behalf

>=20

> > Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

>=20

> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM

>=20

> > To: John E Drake

>=20

> > Cc: CCAMP

>=20

> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Hello John,

>=20

> >

>=20

> > 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of private

>=20

> > mails without asking the permission to the involved people. This is

>=20

> > impolite and unprofessional.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads

>=20

> > that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to follow

> > for

>=20

> > people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,

>=20

> > this happened after a discussion from scratch was already started in

>=20

> > the mailing list.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate

>=20

> > personal offenses not supported by any sound technical motivation as

>=20

> > reported in your mails and snipped below:

>=20

> >

>=20

> > "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,

>=20

> > multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is not

> even

>=20

> > wrong."

>=20

> >

>=20

> > " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found

>=20

> > them, shall we say, lacking."

>=20

> >

>=20

> > We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a

> purely

>=20

> > technical point of view.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Pietro, Sergio and Daniele

>=20

> >

>=20

> > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>=20

> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi

>=20

> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

>=20

> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

>=20

> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930

>=20

> > Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grand

> > i@alcatel-lucent.com>

>=20

> > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>=20

> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an =
hour.

>=20

> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.

> > That's

>=20

> > relativity.

>=20

> > (A. Einstein)

>=20

> >

>=20

> > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>

> > ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>

> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> bounces@ietf.org]

> > > On Behalf

>=20

> > Of John E Drake

>=20

> > Sent: marted=A8=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.13

>=20

> > To: CCAMP

>=20

> > Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> >

>=20

> >

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> >

>=20

> >

>=20

> > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > From: John E Drake

>=20

> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM

>=20

> > To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

>=20

> > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan

>=20

> > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; Ciena -

>=20

> > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;

> > BELOTTI,

>=20

> > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli

>=20

> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Fatai,

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Comments inline.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Thanks,

>=20

> >

>=20

> > John

>=20

> >

>=20

> > Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> >

>=20

> >

>=20

> > > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > > From: Fatai Zhang

> > >

> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]

> > > >

>=20

> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM

>=20

> > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

>=20

> > > Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan

>=20

> > > Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;

> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; Ciena -

>=20

> > > Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;

>=20

> > BELOTTI,

>=20

> > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli

>=20

> > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Hi John,

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > JD:  I will let this pass.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,

> establish

>=20

> > > multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the issues =
that

>=20

> > we

>=20

> > > described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned

> (eg.,

>=20

> > > OAM/protection issues).

>=20

> >

>=20

> > JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't think

> > the

>=20

> > one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is =
either

>=20

> > interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was

> > addressing

>=20

> > my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing

> multi-

>=20

> > hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the issues

>=20

> > Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue

>=20

> > whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches I

>=20

> > described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the same.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must =
be

>=20

> > > used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label =
approach.

>=20

> > > E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and D,

> but

>=20

> > B,

>=20

> > > C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO

>=20

> > ODUj

>=20

> > > (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and D

>=20

> > > through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are

> > > lots

>=20

> > > of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was simply

>=20

> > pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt

> > latency

>=20

> > and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within

>=20

> > multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.

>=20

> >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Fatai

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Thanks

>=20

> > > ----- Original Message -----

>=20

> > > From: "John E Drake"

> > >

> <<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper

> > > .net>>

>=20

> > > To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"

>=20

> > > <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.g

> > > randi@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucen

> > > t.com>>

>=20

> > > Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"

> > >

> <<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson

> > > .com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>; "Rajan

>=20

> > Rao"

>=20

> > >

> <<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.co

> > > m>>; "Fatai Zhang"

> > >

> <<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfat

> > > ai@huawei.com>>; "Khuzema

>=20

> > > Pithewan"

> =
<<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan

> @infinera.com>>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"

>=20

> > > <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-

> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok

> Kunjidhapatham"

>=20

> > >

> =
<<mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mail

> to:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>>; "Diego Caviglia"

>=20

> > >

> =
<<mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto

> :diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>>; "Steve Balls"

>=20

> > >

> <<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailt

> > > o:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>>; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"

> > > <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>>;

>=20

> > >

> =
<<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co

> m.cn>>; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"

>=20

> >

> <<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.ma

> > rgaria@nsn.com>>;

>=20

> > > "Li Dan"

> =
<<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.

> danli@huawei.com>>; "Jonathan Hardwick"

>=20

> > >

> =
<<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.

> com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>>; "Tellabs - Jonathan

> Sadler"

>=20

> > >

> =
<<mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto

> :jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>>; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"

>=20

> > >

> <<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.ne

> > > t>>

>=20

> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM

>=20

> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Pietro,

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using single-

> stage

>=20

> > > muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label format,

> > > which

>=20

> > I

>=20

> > > believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment

>=20

> > using

>=20

> > > single-stage muxing is done.

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so

> > > we

>=20

> > > are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use LSP

>=20

> > > hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs

>=20

> > explicitly

>=20

> > > and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the

>=20

> > Path

>=20

> > > message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established

>=20

> > > implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more

>=20

> > efficient

>=20

> > > wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do not

> want

>=20

> > to

>=20

> > > do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that we =
will

>=20

> > > only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a =
node

>=20

> > > advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling =
is

>=20

> > to

>=20

> > > be accomplished.

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Thanks,

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > John

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > >

>=20

> > > > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

>=20

> > > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com]<mailto:[mailto:

> > > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM

>=20

> > > > To: John E Drake

>=20

> > > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;

>=20

> > > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;

>=20

> > Steve

>=20

> > > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > Margaria;

>=20

> > > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> Vallinayakam

>=20

> > > > Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

>=20

> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > John,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-

> LSP

>=20

> > > > concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something

>=20

> > that

>=20

> > > > does not exist at all.

>=20

> > > > Operators are used to managed their CP network together with =
NMS.

>=20

> > > > Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage

>=20

> > > label

>=20

> > > > would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy

> > > > implementation

>=20

> > > > consequences.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach can

>=20

> > only

>=20

> > > be

>=20

> > > > used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage muxing)

> > > > and

>=20

> > > it

>=20

> > > > will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that

> > > > Fatai

>=20

> > > > sent a few days ago.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-stage

>=20

> > label

>=20

> > > > concept is absolutely mandatory for us.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>=20

> > > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi

>=20

> > > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

>=20

> > > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

>=20

> > > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930

>=20

> > > > Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.g

> > > > randi@alcatel-lucent.com>

>=20

> > > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>=20

> > > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an

>=20

> > hour.

>=20

> > > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.

>=20

> > > That's

>=20

> > > > relativity.

>=20

> > > > (A. Einstein)

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > -----Original Message-----

>=20

> > > > From: John E Drake

> > > > [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40

>=20

> > > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

>=20

> > > > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;

>=20

> > > > BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;

>=20

> > Steve

>=20

> > > > Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > Margaria;

>=20

> > > > Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> Vallinayakam

>=20

> > > > Somasundaram

>=20

> > > > Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Pietro,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage

>=20

> > switching

>=20

> > > > support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the same

> > > > LSP

>=20

> > > > endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems ill-

>=20

> > > > considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling

>=20

> > > > multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > John

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

>=20

> > > > VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

>=20

> > > >

> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat

> > > > el-lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>

>=20

> > wrote:

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Hello John,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > I understand that you think that the new switching type in

> routing

>=20

> > > > should also convey implicitly the information that a

>=20

> > > > multi-stage label is supported.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > I do not agree with this statement.

>=20

> > > > Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are

> possible

>=20

> > > (and

>=20

> > > > already standard) and the fact the a node supports

>=20

> > > > the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is

>=20

> > > supported.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Pietro

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > ________________________________

>=20

> > > > From: John E Drake

> > > > [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: venerd=A8=AC 17 giugno 2011 2.09

>=20

> > > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele

> Ceccarelli;

>=20

> > > > Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO

> > > > (SERGIO);

>=20

> > > > Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena -

>=20

> > Lyndon

>=20

> > > > Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > >

> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zt

> > > > e.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

>=20

> > > Sadler';

>=20

> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

>=20

> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Pietro,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a

>=20

> > different

>=20

> > > > switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This means

>=20

> > that

>=20

> > > we

>=20

> > > > get to define the signaling used for this switching type, and I

> am

>=20

> > > > proposing that we use multistage.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Thanks,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > John

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

>=20

> > > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com]<mailto:[mailto:

> > > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM

>=20

> > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;

>=20

> > Khuzema

>=20

> > > > Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego

>=20

> > > > Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

>=20

> > > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > >

> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zt

> > > > e.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

>=20

> > > Sadler';

>=20

> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

>=20

> > > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Hi all,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > I  agree with Daniele' statement.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > in my mind this means that single stage label support is =
implicit

>=20

> > and

>=20

> > > > that

>=20

> > > > multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine =
explicitly

>=20

> > > > declares the support.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Pietro

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>=20

> > > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi

>=20

> > > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

>=20

> > > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

>=20

> > > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930

>=20

> > > > Mail:

> > > > <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_v

> > > > ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

>=20

> > > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca

> > > > tel->

>=20

> > > >

> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat

> > > > el-lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

>=20

> > > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>=20

> > > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an

>=20

> > hour.

>=20

> > > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.

>=20

> > > That's

>=20

> > > > relativity.

>=20

> > > > (A. Einstein)

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > ________________________________

>=20

> > > > From: Daniele Ceccarelli

> > > >

> [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<mailto:[mailto:daniele.ce

> > > > ccarelli@ericsson.com]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: gioved=A8=AC 16 giugno 2011 15.48

>=20

> > > > To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;

>=20

> > BELOTTI,

>=20

> > > > SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

>=20

> > > (PIETRO

>=20

> > > > VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

>=20

> > > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > >

> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zt

> > > > e.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

>=20

> > > Sadler';

>=20

> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

>=20

> > > > Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to =
support

>=20

> > > > single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe

> that

>=20

> > as

>=20

> > > > per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told

>=20

> > not

>=20

> > > to

>=20

> > > > deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only

> > > > or

>=20

> > > > multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward

>=20

> > > > compatibility issues somehow.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > BR

>=20

> > > > Daniele

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > ________________________________

>=20

> > > > From: John E Drake

> > > > [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: gioved=A8=AC 16 giugno 2011 8.53

>=20

> > > > To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;

>=20

> > > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

>=20

> > > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;

>=20

> > > 'Steve

>=20

> > > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

>=20

> > > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > >

> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zt

> > > > e.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

>=20

> > > Sadler';

>=20

> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

>=20

> > > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for

>=20

> > multi-

>=20

> > > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)

>=20

> > > > Rajan,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much

> preferred

>=20

> > to

>=20

> > > > say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage

> labels.

>=20

> > > > These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical LSPs.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Thanks,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > John

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Sent from my iPhone

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > From: Rajan Rao

> > > > [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>

>=20

> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM

>=20

> > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema

>=20

> > Pithewan;

>=20

> > > > 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

>=20

> > > > Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;

>=20

> > > 'Steve

>=20

> > > > Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

>=20

> > > > <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > >

> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zt

> > > > e.com.cn>; 'NSN - Cyril

>=20

> > > > Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan

>=20

> > > Sadler';

>=20

> > > > Vallinayakam Somasundaram

>=20

> > > > Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for

>=20

> > multi-

>=20

> > > > stage Vs Single Stage labels)

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Hi,

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > While we are making updates, let us discuss support required in

>=20

> > link

>=20

> > > > advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and

> single-

>=20

> > > stage

>=20

> > > > with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate

>=20

> > what

>=20

> > > > the link is capable of.  This will address some of the issues we

>=20

> > have

>=20

> > > > discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs

>=20

> > with

>=20

> > > > different capabilities (inter-op).

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > Thanks

>=20

> > > > Rajan

>=20

> > _______________________________________________

>=20

> > CCAMP mailing list

>=20

> > <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

>=20

> > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

>=20

> > _______________________________________________

>=20

> > CCAMP mailing list

>=20

> > <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

>=20

> > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

>=20

> _______________________________________________

>=20

> CCAMP mailing list

>=20

> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

>=20

> =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailm

> an/listinfo/ccamp

> _______________________________________________

> CCAMP mailing list

> CCAMP@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I think you misinterpreted Daniele</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s =
scenario and my question in another email. I am trying to make a =
clarification here together.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>(1)Daniele</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s scenario<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>In Daniele</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s scenario, Node C cannot support ODU1 switching, it =
performs ODU2 into ODU3. I illustrated this scenario, but replacing ODU1 =
with ODU0 to make it more understandable. In this scenario, Node C =
cannot support ODU0 switching.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Do you think multi-stage labels =
can handle this scenario? If yes, how to create ODU0 LSP with =
multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><img width=3D928 height=3D255 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" =
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01CC3C95.8A9CD770"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>(2) Another scenario from me =
(that you misinterpreted in another email).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>In the following secnario, if =
Node C cannot support ODU3 switching, how you can create ODU0 LSP with =
multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><img width=3D933 height=3D233 id=3D"Picture_x0020_2" =
src=3D"cid:image002.png@01CC3C95.D4882E70"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>Sent: =
2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>7</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
23:26<br>To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang<br>Cc: CCAMP<br>Subject: =
RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Daniele,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>I think the short answer is =
yes.&nbsp; I wouldn't necessarily describe this situation as asymmetric =
because it is actually pair-wise symmetric; i.e., A &amp; B support ODU1 =
switching directly, B &amp; C support ODU1 switching over a containing =
hierarchical ODU2 LSP (without multi-stage labels), C &amp; D support =
ODU1 switching over an ODU2 intermediate stage switching LSP (with =
multi-stage label) within a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP, and D =
&amp; E support ODU1 switching directly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli =
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, July 05, =
2011 7:20 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Hi John and =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; There is a quite common =
scenario that i don't understand whether it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; supported or not by the =
multistage label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; The scenario is simply a path where the multistage =
hierarchy is built<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; as a sequence of multiple single =
stages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; E.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; A ------- B ---------- C =
-------------- D ------ E<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ODU1&nbsp; =
+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; ODU1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; + ODU1-&gt;ODU2 =
+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; +ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3+<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; This is an =
&quot;asymmetric&quot; scenario, in which an ODU1 is carried from A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
B, it is muxed into an ODU2 in B and sent as ODU1-&gt;ODU2 from B to =
C,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
then another single stage muxing is performed muxing the =
ODU1-&gt;ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; into an ODU3 and the ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 is carried =
form C to D. Node D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; performes a dual stage demuxing and extracts the ODU1. =
The ODU1 is then<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; delivered to E.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Is the multistage label =
able to set-up this kind of path?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; I would like to have a =
single method too, but unless all scenarios are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; covered also by the =
multi-stage label method i would prefer to have =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
sequential path messges as a must and the multi-stage method =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
optional.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Of John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: domenica 3 luglio 2011 =
15.23<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Fatai Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Since folks don't seem to =
like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; using 'intermediate =
switching stage LSP'?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To answer your question, I =
don't agree with your second paragraph.&nbsp; I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; thought I had made it clear =
that I would prefer one method, either<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; sequential Path messages or =
multi-stage labels, to establish<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; intermediate switching =
stage LSPs, but not both.&nbsp; There is no reason =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
support both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, =
&quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Do you agree with my second =
paragraph in my email below?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; If not, I would like to =
step further to make something explicit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Let's continue this example =
below. If there is no enough resource on<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; link BC or CD (or both of =
them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if Node C can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; not support ODU3 switching =
but support ODU3 termination, how you can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; create ODU0 connection with =
multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Could you explain a little =
more?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ----- Original Message =
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: John E =
Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Fatai =
Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt; ; =
'Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Bryskin'&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt; ; =
'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 =
10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Please see the email I just =
sent to the CCAMP&nbsp; mailing list in response<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to Pietro</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s email.&nbsp; I think it also addresses the points in your =
email,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line analysis =
of it by you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 30, =
2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; OK, Let</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s converge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; I think you will agree that =
multi-stage labels can only be used for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; some cases rather than =
universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this example =
below,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single =
stage muxing (ie.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 =
FA LSP and then use<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; one single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For =
these two ways, there is no<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; need to use multi-stage =
labels. I think you can understand that these<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; two ways are better and =
more efficient than your approach (two stages<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) =
+ODU3 FA-LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; In addition, we are merging =
our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to give<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the flexibility for the =
people to choose what they prefer for multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; stage muxing scenario, =
either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; labels in some cases. We =
have figured out a perfect unified solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; If people like multi-stage =
labels, they can choose this approach to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; use. If people do not like =
multi-stage labels, they can just choose<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; single stage + =
H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: =
2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
12:13<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; =
'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; I had one =
clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on links, =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
which case the </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A1=AE</span><span lang=3DEN-US>containing hierarchical =
LSP</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A1=AF</span><span lang=3DEN-US> is the link</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s OUDk/OTUk,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and they would be more =
efficient than signaling multiple one hop sub-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; layer =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; However, I seriously doubt =
than this will be a common case, because<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; having awareness of =
individual ODUjs in the core of the network in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; inherently less scalable =
than having multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: =
2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
11:37<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Comments =
inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Fatai =
Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor =
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; So, you admit that =
ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly =
by<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3 before =
ODU0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 =
(FA) is already<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; =
I think I actually stipulated this in an email I =
sent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; you and others some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea =
is that you create the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; containing =
hierarchical&nbsp; LSP first and then use it to establish&nbsp; =
OUDj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; client&nbsp; LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs as =
needed, with the sub-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; layer LSPs being established using one of the two =
proposals being<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; A few points for =
clarification, even though I follow your =
thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; How to create the ODU3 FA =
before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; LSP concept =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; =
If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B holds =
it,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,&nbsp; and =
then<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; *either*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling =
D and then sends the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU0 Path message to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along =
with the multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; If ODU3 FA between B and D =
is already there, the FA should be regarded<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; as one-hop, because there =
is no difference between one-hop FA and one-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; hop link. So, this scenario =
should be treated as one-hop scenario<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; rather than multi-hop =
(Please pay attention to this sentence that we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; are trying to make you =
understood many times).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio and =
you&nbsp; last week that I didn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
think multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, =
and that I only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; considered them useful in the context of multi-hop =
multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the =
containing hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; LSP is between that LSP =
endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; If ODU3 between B and D is =
already there based on this example, why it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; needs to use two stage =
muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not just use =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please review our =
slides<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; again to get more information about cons of =
multi-stage muxing(slide<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; 5).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; JD:&nbsp; You could, if =
that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your figure I =
had<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that we had =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
interesting scenario to discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: =
2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>29</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
23:39<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Let</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between =
node B and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; =
Using the sub-layer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer =
ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the =
ODU0.&nbsp; With multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; stage labels we would =
signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; As I have repeatedly said, =
either can be made to work with some non-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; zero amount of effort, but =
my preference is for multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; strictly from an efficiency =
perspective.&nbsp; There isn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
enough difference<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; between the two approaches to warrant standardizing =
both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Fatai =
Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor =
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Agree with Igor that let =
emotions aside if there was some improper<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; wording. Let</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Could you clarify your =
point 1) a little more? Here is a simple example<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; shown =
below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Could you explain how to =
create ODU0 connection from Node A to Node E<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; by multi-stage labels =
approach? What information (e.g., traffic<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; parameters, labels) should =
be carried in the Path or Resv message? What<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; action should be taken for =
Node C when receiving the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
message?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;image001.png&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On =
Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>29</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
6:12<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; I have a few =
clarifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-stage labels =
apply equally well to multi-hop hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; LSPs. (The is the point =
some people do not seem to understand.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; 2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to =
say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just works for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the establishment of a =
hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; switching.&nbsp; This =
involves a nested set of hierarchical LSPs, the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; containing hierarchical LSP =
and the set of sub-layer LSPs which provide<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; context for intermediate =
stage labels, between the same two endpoints.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; This is a new construct and =
there are almost certainly details to be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; worked =
out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; 3)&nbsp; I don't think we =
should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I =
would<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; prefer that the working group pick one to =
standardize.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: Igor =
Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June =
28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Hi =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; You may not like =
John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
saying<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; repeatedly in this =
discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; 1) The point of CP =
signaling is to convey information pertinent to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; network element =
provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
stupid<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; to signal numerous one =
hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; single end-to-end =
round of signaling to do the job), create and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; numerous extra CP =
states, take care of all restart implications, =
etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; just to be consistent =
with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; 2) Besides, you can =
think of multi-stage label as identification of =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; new type of network =
resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
god-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; fathers would agree =
that they never meant to limit GMPLS to control<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; resources described in =
early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; 3) Finally, no one =
ever said that you cannot orchestrate =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; provisioning through =
the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: =
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
bounces@ietf.org]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June =
28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Hello =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; 1) You have forwarded =
to the CCamp mailing list a number of private<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; mails without asking =
the permission to the involved people. This is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; impolite and =
unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; 2) You are creating =
spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; that are each hundreds =
of lines long and very complicated to follow<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; people not involved in =
the discussion since the beginning. Moreover,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; this happened after a =
discussion from scratch was already started in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; the mailing =
list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; 3) You moved from a =
technical discussion to arrogant and deliberate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; personal offenses not =
supported by any sound technical motivation as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; reported in your mails =
and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &quot;This shows a =
complete lack of understanding of hierarchical =
LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; multi-stage labels, =
and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
even<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &quot; It might be =
more precise to say I reviewed your slides and =
found<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; them, shall we say, =
lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; We hope that from now =
on the discussion can be continued from a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
purely<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; technical point of =
view.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Pietro, Sergio and =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics =
Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent =
Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 686 =
4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Mail: =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grand<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
i@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot =
stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl =
for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: =
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
bounces@ietf.org]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Of John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: =
marted</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A8=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 28 giugno 2011 =
14.13<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June =
23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; =
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN =
- Cyril Margaria; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; Ciena =
-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve =
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); =
Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Comments =
inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Fatai =
Zhang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; =
NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; Ciena =
-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve =
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); =
Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; I guess that you =
did not review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let =
this pass.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; You just see the =
only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
establish<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-layers LSP =
concurrently), but you did not see the issues =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; described in the =
slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
(eg.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; OAM/protection =
issues).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry =
that I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I don't =
think<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; one-hop hierarchical =
LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; interesting or common =
and it was not the case to which I was<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
addressing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; my comments.&nbsp; =
Rather, I was describing two ways of =
establishing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; hop multi-stage =
hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the =
issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Jonathan raised in =
this context are red herrings rather than blue<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; whales.&nbsp; =
Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approaches =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; described is used, the =
issues, if any, would be exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; In addition, we =
have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy must =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; used in many =
cases, even though we have multi-stage label =
approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; E.g., an ODU0 =
connection request from A to E through B, C and =
D,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
but<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
B,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; C and&nbsp; D (or =
one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the =
HO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or =
ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B and =
D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; through LSP =
hierarchy. This example is very simple and there =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; lots<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; of transforms for =
this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Please see =
above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was =
simply<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; pointing out that =
multi-stage labels can be used to improve wrt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
latency<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; and control plane =
overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs within<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; multi-stage =
hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original =
Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: &quot;John =
E Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@=
juniper<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; .net&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.g<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
randi@alcatel-lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; t.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele =
Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@eric=
sson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
.com&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;&gt;; =
&quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infi=
nera.co<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; m&gt;&gt;; &quot;Fatai =
Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:z=
hangfat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; ai@huawei.com&gt;&gt;; =
&quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pithewan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;mailto=
:kpithewan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; @infinera.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO =
(SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcate=
l-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;; =
&quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.c=
om&lt;mail<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Diego =
Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com=
&lt;mailto<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; :diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Steve =
Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&l=
t;mailt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; o:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;&gt;; =
&quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.c=
om&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xi=
hua@zte.co<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; m.cn&gt;&gt;; &quot;NSN - Cyril =
Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto=
:cyril.ma<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; rgaria@nsn.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;Li =
Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@huawei.com&lt;mail=
to:huawei.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; danli@huawei.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Jonathan =
Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@meta=
switch.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Tellabs - =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com=
&lt;mailto<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; :jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;&gt;; =
&quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@jun=
iper.ne<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; t&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; If we are talking =
about the establishment of LSPs using single-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; muxing, I think =
the only thing necessary is a new label format,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
which<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; believe is a bit =
map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP establishment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; single-stage =
muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; We have never had =
a situation such as multi-stage muxing before so<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; are breaking new =
ground and we have two choices, either use LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchy to =
establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; and sequentially, =
or include the sub-layer information within the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Path<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; message for the =
ODUj such that the sub-layers are established<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; implicitly and =
concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Either will work, =
but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
efficient<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; wrt latency and =
control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
want<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; do is to say that =
both are supported.&nbsp; If we can agree that we =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; only use one =
method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when a =
node<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; advertises =
multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; be =
accomplished.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: =
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, =
SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena =
- Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - =
Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; =
Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It seems as =
though you consider on the same level something =
(H-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; concept) =
already used in CP managing multi-layer with =
something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; does not =
exist at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Operators =
are used to managed their CP network together with =
NMS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the =
NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; would force =
NMS to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
implementation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We should =
also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach =
can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; used in some =
cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage =
muxing)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; will bring =
some management issues. Please see the slides =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sent a few =
days ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; For both =
these reasons the &quot;optional&quot; condition of =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; concept is =
absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro, =
Sergio, Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro =
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial =
Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 =
686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.g<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
randi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Put your =
hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a =
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; =
minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: sabato =
18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, =
SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena =
- Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - =
Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; =
Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We can =
certainly say that a node that advertises =
multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
switching<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; support in =
routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; As I said =
before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the =
same<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; endpoints to =
establish intermediate switching stages seems =
ill-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; considered =
and forcing everyone to support two ways of =
signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; multistage =
LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Jun 17, =
2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
VITTORIO)&quot; =
&lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
el-lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hello =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I understand =
that you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; should also =
convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage =
label is supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I do not =
agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
possible<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
(and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; already =
standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the new =
switching type is not enough to clearly tell what =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
venerd</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A8=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 17 giugno 2011 =
2.09<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan Rao; =
Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
(SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena =
-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ong'; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@=
zt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; =
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Actually we =
are already covered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; switching =
type, which is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This =
means<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; get to =
define the signaling used for this switching type, and =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
am<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; proposing =
that we use multistage.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: =
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai =
Zhang;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pithewan; =
BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; =
Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia; =
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@=
zt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; =
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hi =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I&nbsp; =
agree with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; in my mind =
this means that single stage label support is =
implicit<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage =
labels should not be used unless a machine =
explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; declares the =
support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro =
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial =
Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 =
686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Mail:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_v<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
tel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
el-lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Put your =
hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a =
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; =
minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: =
Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ce<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; ccarelli@ericsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
gioved</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A8=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 =
15.48<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E =
Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO =
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO); =
Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@=
zt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; =
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Starting a =
new thread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Assuming we =
still have not decided whether we're going to =
support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; single stage =
only, multi stage only or both of them i believe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; per OSPF we =
need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; An =
implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been =
told<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; deprecate) =
is single stage based, so in case of multi stage =
only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage =
+ single stage we should be able to cover =
backward<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
gioved</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A8=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 =
8.53<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Rajan =
Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, =
SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
'Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; =
'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@=
zt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; =
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs =
Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Rajan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I didn't =
want to allow interoperability options.&nbsp; I =
much<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; preferred<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; say that we =
do signaling in one way only, using multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
labels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; These are =
also needed for signaling within&nbsp; hierarchical =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Rajan =
Rao<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; =
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, =
SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
'Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; =
'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@=
zt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; =
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs =
Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; While we are =
making updates, let us discuss support required =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
link<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
advertisement for single/multi-stage label =
options:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Given that =
there is interest in both multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
single-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; with H-LSPs, =
we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to =
indicate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
what<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the link is =
capable of.&nbsp; This will address some of the issues =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
have<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; discussed in =
the past relating to path computation involving =
NEs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; different =
capabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; CCAMP mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; =
CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; CCAMP mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; =
CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; CCAMP mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailm<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; an/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; CCAMP mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
body></html>=

--Boundary_(ID_8vjfqadSUXlm4ZTGtzzDJQ)--

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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:40:54 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18457" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Hi=20
Xihua,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>thanks=20
for your review.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Please=20
find answers inline.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>BR<BR>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> marted=A8=AC 5 luglio 2011=20
10.26<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP'<BR><B>Subject:=
</B>=20
Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi &nbsp;Daniele,</FONT> <BR><BR>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thank you for your hard work in OTN routing.</FO=
NT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>A few comments.</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>1. In the "Abstract" section, you wrote "... in =
support=20
of both sub-lambda and lambda level &nbsp;routing granularity." &nbsp;I don=
=A1=AFt=20
think this document is related to lambda level routing.</FONT>&nbsp;<SPAN=20
class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>[DC] -=20
Lambda stands for the bottom most ODU layer, while sub lambdas are the lowe=
r=20
order ODUs muxed in it. If for example an OTU3 link is being advertised wit=
h=20
ODU2 and ODU0 capabilities, the ODU3 is the lambda, while ODU0 and ODU2 the=
 sub=20
lambdas.</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>2. In the =
5.2=20
section, ODUflex could have switching capability. S bits should be=20
1.</FONT>&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D=
#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>[DC] -=20
In section 5.2 T and S bits are not taken into account, they could be 0 or =
1.=20
The example just wants to show the utilization&nbsp;of the F=20
bit.</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>3. In the 5.3 =
section,=20
you should value the T and S bit. If ODU4 have both switching and terminati=
on=20
capability, you may give two blocks to describe it.</FONT>&nbsp;<SPAN=20
class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011>&nbsp;</SPAN>=
<BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>4. In the 5.4 section, it is also suggested you =
should=20
value T and S bit, otherwise these example could not clearly reflect the SC=
SI=20
encoding.</FONT>&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>[DC] -=20
Also section 5.3 and 5.4 don't aim at explaining the utilization of the T a=
nd S=20
bits. Their explanation is limited to section 5.1 and no more discussed in =
the=20
following examples as other features are being shown. If you think it might=
 be=20
worth, we could add a further example, maybe quite complicated, so to try a=
nd=20
summarize everything into a single example.</FONT></SPAN><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>5. In the 5.5 section, &nbsp;ODU0 should be mapp=
ed into=20
ODU3, then ODU4.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;<BR><SPAN=20
class=3D561302609-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[DC]=
&nbsp;-=20
You're right, it's a typo, i'll fix it.</FONT></SPAN><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-=
serif=20
size=3D2>Xihua Fu</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"35%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT><BR><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org</FONT>=20
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-27 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:28</FO=
NT> </P>
    <TD width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
      <TABLE>
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
          <TD><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR=
><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi CCAMPers,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&=
nbsp;</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As promised during the IETF meeting in Prag=
ue the=20
authors of the two competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN h=
ave=20
been working together and a merged document has been produced.</FONT> <BR><=
FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can=
 find the=20
merged ID at the following link:</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.=
txt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><U>http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709=
-06.txt</U></FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT>=
 <BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Comments and feedback are appreciated</FONT> <BR><FON=
T=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,=
</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The authors</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT><IMG=20
src=3D"cid:561302609@07072011-1E6D"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#333333 size=3D2><B><BR>DANIELE CECCARELLI <BR>System =
&amp;=20
Technology - DU IP &amp; Broadband</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=
=20
color=3D#333333 size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333 siz=
e=3D2><BR>Via=20
L.Calda, 5<BR>Genova, Italy<BR>Phone +390106002512<BR>Mobile=20
+393346725750<BR>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR></U></FONT><A=20
href=3D"www.ericsson.com"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><U>www.ericsson.com</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#3333=
33 size=3D2>=20
</FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#333333 size=3D3><BR></FO=
NT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR></U></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/"><IMG src=3D"cid:561302609@07072011-1E74">=
</A>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333 size=3D1><BR>This Communication is=20
Confidential. We only send and receive email on the basis of the term set o=
ut at=20
</FONT><A href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer"><FONT face=3DAr=
ial=20
color=3D#333333 size=3D1><U>www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer</U></FONT></A=
><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#333333 size=3D1> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New R=
oman"=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2><TT>_______________________________________________<BR>CCAMP maili=
ng=20
list<BR>CCAMP@ietf.org<BR>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<BR></=
TT></FONT><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:14:48 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Hi=20
Xihua,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>for=20
sure RFC4204 is not correct, given that it is about LMP :-)</FONT></SPAN></=
DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>The=20
draft defines a guideline on how to fill those fields. RFC 4203 states=20
that:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; TEXT-TRANSFORM:=
 none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA=
CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bor=
der-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-=
text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px"><PRE class=3Dnewpage sty=
le=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 1em; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; PAGE-BREAK-BEFOR=
E: always">   Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet f=
ields in
   the IEEE floating point format [<A title=3D'"IEEE Standard for Binary Fl=
oating-Point Arithmetic"' href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IE=
EE">IEEE</A>], with priority 0 first and
   priority 7 last.  The units are bytes (not bits!) per second.</PRE></SPA=
N></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>and=20
the MAX LSP field must be filled accordingly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Give=
n that the=20
OTN has a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the=20
"biggest"&nbsp;available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at different=
=20
priorities can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth=20
availabilities.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>You're=20
rigth when saying that this information is not enough for the PCE and the S=
CSI=20
must be used.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636220110-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> mercoled=A8=AC 6 luglio 2011=
=20
13.37<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CCAMP] OSP=
F OTN=20
drafts merged<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi Daniele,</FONT> <BR><BR>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>One more comment.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D2>In section "4. &nbsp;ISCD format extensions", &nbsp;it write:</FON=
T>=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>"The MAX LSP bandwidth field is used=20
accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>&nbsp; Max LSP Bandwidth &lt;=3D ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values=
 are=20
those on</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp; the branch of O=
TN=20
switching hierarchy supported by the interface.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsan=
s-serif=20
size=3D2>&nbsp; E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as =
MAX=20
LSP</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp; Bandwidth for some=20
priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc. </FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>"</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>In=
 my=20
understanding, there is no any standardized principle about how to value th=
is=20
unit.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It doesn't make any sense=
 to path=20
computation entity. It has to rely on SCSI information.</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Is that right?</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-=
serif=20
size=3D2>Xihua</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"35%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT><BR><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org</FONT>=20
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-27 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:28</FO=
NT> </P>
    <TD width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
      <TABLE>
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
          <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FO=
NT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Hi CCAMPers,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the aut=
hors of=20
the two competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been wo=
rking=20
together and a merged document has been produced.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can find the mer=
ged ID at=20
the following link:</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <B=
R><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.=
txt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><U>http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709=
-06.txt</U></FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT>=
 <BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Comments and feedback are appreciated</FONT> <BR><FON=
T=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,=
</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The authors</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT><IMG=20
src=3D"cid:636220110@07072011-1E7B"><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#333333 size=3D2><B><BR>DANIELE CECCARELLI <BR>System =
&amp;=20
Technology - DU IP &amp; Broadband</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=
=20
color=3D#333333 size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333 siz=
e=3D2><BR>Via=20
L.Calda, 5<BR>Genova, Italy<BR>Phone +390106002512<BR>Mobile=20
+393346725750<BR>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR></U></FONT><A=20
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:18:47 +0200
Thread-Topic: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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--_000_B5630A95D803744A81C51AD4040A6DAA0A3046D485ESESSCMS0360e_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18457" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Hi=20
Xihua,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>in the=20
end this message is an ISCD, so we must keep the same format and=20
same&nbsp;values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is present and must be filled as de=
fined=20
in RFC4203 (as written in the draft). Given that RFC 4203=20
just&nbsp;says&nbsp;few words on&nbsp;"how to fill" that field, we just add=
ed=20
few words to say it explicitely.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>What's=20
your suggestion?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D629195112-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
13.01<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>HiDaniele,</FONT> <BR><BR><=
FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thank you for your clarification.</FONT> <BR><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>We know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardize=
d except=20
this draft. </FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If it doesn't make =
any sense=20
to path computation, it doesn't matter with how to standardize it in this=20
draft.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Xihua</FONT> <BR><BR=
><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"35%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-07-07 =CF=C2=CE=E7 06:14</FO=
NT> </P>
    <TD width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;,=20
            "danli@huawei.com" &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=
=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
      <TABLE>
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
          <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FO=
NT face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Hi Xihua,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>for sur=
e RFC4204 is=20
not correct, given that it is about LMP :-)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-se=
rif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>The dra=
ft defines a=20
guideline on how to fill those fields. RFC 4203 states that:</FONT> <BR><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D3><TT>&nbsp; &nbs=
p;Maximum=20
LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet fields in<BR>&nbsp; the=
 IEEE=20
floating point format [</TT></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE"><FONT color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><TT><U>IEEE</U></TT></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3><TT>], with priority=
 0 first=20
and<BR>&nbsp; priority 7 last. &nbsp;The units are bytes (not bits!) per=20
second.</TT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR>=
<FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>and the MAX LSP field must be filled acc=
ordingly.=20
Given that the OTN has a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal =
to=20
the "biggest" available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at different=20
priorities can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth availabilities.</FONT=
>=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial c=
olor=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>You're rigth when saying that this information is not enough for t=
he PCE=20
and the SCSI must be used.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbs=
p;</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Daniele</FONT> <BR><BR>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> mercoled=A8=AC 6 luglio 2011=
=20
13.37<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [CCAMP] OSP=
F OTN=20
drafts merged</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Hi Daniele,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif si=
ze=3D3>=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>One more comment.</FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>In =
section "4.=20
&nbsp;ISCD format extensions", &nbsp;it write:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-seri=
f=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>"The MAX LSP bandwidt=
h field is=20
used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif s=
ize=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;Max LSP Bandwidth &lt;=3D=
 ODUk/OTUk=20
and intermediate values are those on</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3=
>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;the branch of OTN switchi=
ng=20
hierarchy supported by the interface.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D=
3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;E.g. in the OTU4 link it =
could be=20
possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;Bandwidth for some priori=
ties,=20
ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc. <BR>"</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-se=
rif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>In my understanding, =
there is no=20
any standardized principle about how to value this unit.</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>It =
doesn't make=20
any sense to path computation entity. It has to rely on SCSI=20
information.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsa=
ns-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>Is that right?</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Xihua</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3=
>=20
<BR><BR><BR></FONT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"51%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> <BR>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20
      &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-27 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:28</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"48%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"15%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"84%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3=
> </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>H=
i=20
CCAMPers,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial=
=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors of t=
he two=20
competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been working=20
together and a merged document has been produced.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>You can find the merg=
ed ID at=20
the following link:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT fa=
ce=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR></U></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.=
txt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><U>http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709=
-06.txt</U></FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</=
FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Comments and feedback are appreciated</FONT><FONT=
=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT><=
FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>Thanks,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT f=
ace=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>The authors</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FON=
T><IMG=20
src=3D"cid:629195112@07072011-1EBA"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333=20
size=3D2><B><BR><BR>DANIELE CECCARELLI <BR>System &amp; Technology - DU IP =
&amp;=20
Broadband</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#333333 size=3D3=
>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333 size=3D2><BR><BR>Via L.Calda, 5<B=
R>Genova,=20
Italy<BR>Phone +390106002512<BR>Mobile=20
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color=3Dblue size=3D2><U>www.ericsson.com</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=
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color=3D#333333 size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#33=
3333=20
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size=3D1><BR><BR>This Communication is Confidential. We only send and recei=
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size=3D2><BR></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2><TT>_______________________________________________<BR>CCAMP maili=
ng=20
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:40:18 +0200
Thread-Topic: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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--_000_B5630A95D803744A81C51AD4040A6DAA0A3046D4BCESESSCMS0360e_
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18457" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144443713-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Xihua,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144443713-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144443713-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>given=20
that the SCSI is mandatory and not optional, the info in the MAX LSP bandwd=
ith=20
fields is implicitely not enough for the path computation=20
:-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144443713-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144443713-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D144443713-07072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
15.33<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi Daniele,</FONT> <BR><BR>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>How about adding following sentence into draft?<=
/FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>"If Encoding Type is G.709 ODUk (D=
igital=20
Path) , information in MAX LSP bandwidth block is not enough for the patch=
=20
computation. The SCSI must be used. Implementation must not rely on MAX LSP=
=20
bandwidth block"</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Xihua</FON=
T>=20
<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"35%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-07-07 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:18</FO=
NT> </P>
    <TD width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;,=20
            "danli@huawei.com" &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN dra=
fts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
      <TABLE>
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
          <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FO=
NT face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Hi Xihua,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>in the =
end this=20
message is an ISCD, so we must keep the same format and same values. The MA=
X LSP=20
bandwidth is present and must be filled as defined in RFC4203 (as written i=
n the=20
draft). Given that RFC 4203 just says few words on "how to fill" that field=
, we=20
just added few words to say it explicitely.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>What's your suggestion?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-=
serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Thanks<=
/FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Daniele</FONT> <BR><FONT face=
=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <=
BR>
<HR>
<BR><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
13.01<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>HiDaniele,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif siz=
e=3D3>=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Thank you for your=20
clarification.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D=
sans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>We know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this =
draft.=20
<BR>If it doesn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter wit=
h how=20
to standardize it in this draft.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Xihua</FONT><FONT face=3Dsa=
ns-serif=20
size=3D3> <BR><BR><BR></FONT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"28%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-07-07 =CF=C2=CE=E7 06:14</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"71%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"5%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"94%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.=
com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
            </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;,=20
            "danli@huawei.com" &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT><FONT=20
            face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=
=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue s=
ize=3D2><BR>Hi=20
Xihua,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>for sure RFC4204 is not correct, given that it is=
 about=20
LMP :-)</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>The draft defines a guideline on how to fill thos=
e fields.=20
RFC 4203 states that:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</F=
ONT><FONT=20
size=3D3><TT><BR>&nbsp; Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight=
 4=20
octet fields in<BR>&nbsp;the IEEE floating point format [</TT></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE"><FONT color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><TT><U>IEEE</U></TT></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3><TT>], with priority=
 0 first=20
and<BR>&nbsp;priority 7 last. &nbsp;The units are bytes (not bits!) per=20
second.</TT></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=
=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>and the MAX LSP field must be filled=
=20
accordingly. Given that the OTN has a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwi=
dth=20
is equal to the "biggest" available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at=
=20
different priorities can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth=20
availabilities.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><F=
ONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>You're rigth when saying that this i=
nformation=20
is not enough for the PCE and the SCSI must be used.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsan=
s-serif=20
size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><BR>Thanks,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT f=
ace=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Daniele</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
<BR><BR></FONT>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> mercoled=A8=AC 6 luglio 2011=
=20
13.37<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [CCAMP] OSP=
F OTN=20
drafts merged</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>Hi Daniele,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-seri=
f size=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>One more comment.</FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>In =
section "4.=20
&nbsp;ISCD format extensions", &nbsp;it write:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-seri=
f=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>"The MAX LSP bandwidt=
h field is=20
used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif s=
ize=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Max LSP Bandwidth &lt;=3D ODUk/=
OTUk and=20
intermediate values are those on</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>the branch of OTN switching hie=
rarchy=20
supported by the interface.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible t=
o have=20
ODU4 as MAX LSP</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=
=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some =
others=20
etc. <BR>"</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans=
-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>In my understanding, there is no any standardized principle ab=
out how=20
to value this unit.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>It doesn't make any sense to path computatio=
n entity.=20
It has to rely on SCSI information.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=
=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Is that right?</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR><BR>Xihua</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR><BR></FO=
NT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"51%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> <BR>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20
      &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-27 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:28</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"48%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"15%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"84%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3=
> </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
      size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR><=
BR>Hi=20
CCAMPers,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
size=3D2><BR>As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors of t=
he two=20
competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been working=20
together and a merged document has been produced.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>You can find the merge=
d ID at the=20
following link:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR></U></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.=
txt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><U>http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709=
-06.txt</U></FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><=
FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Comments and feedback are appreciated</FONT><FONT=
=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
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From pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Jul  7 07:45:52 2011
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From: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "'CCAMP'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:45:34 +0200
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hello John,

Point by point in line with technical consideration.

Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility an oper=
ator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from the way=
=20
in which an LSP is signaled.

When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate stages t=
his somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.
Moreover, the operator will not have available certain functionalities for =
intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage labels.
So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use of mult=
i-stage label.

I expect that a NMS will issue one or more explicit commands telling to the=
 NE what has to be done.

This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to have
multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it until
it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: mercoled=EC 6 luglio 2011 15.32
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); CCAMP
Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Snipped, comments inline ...

Sent from my iPhone

>=20
> The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2 LSP
> to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the endpoints
> of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the hierarchical
> ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1
> LSP.
>=20
> [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration are
> impacting on it.

JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method

[[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages depend=
s from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and the effect h=
as to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.=20

> At least two important questions have to be answered
> too:
>=20
> 1) Which is the de-allocation policy of the intermediate stages.

JD:  A reasonable default would be to remove a set of intermediate switchin=
g stage LSPs when there are no more ODUj LSPs requiring that set

[[PG]] This is reasonable. If we go with multi-stage labels it can be inser=
ted in the specs.

> 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate stages
> ?

JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding priorities=
 of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate switching stage LSP=
s.

This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.  The =
sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs introduces a =
number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up and holding priori=
ties between the intermediate switching stage LSPs as well as between these=
 LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.  These error cases and their r=
amifications would need to be analyzed and addressed. =20

This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you say t=
here is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs using LSP =
hierarchy[[PG]] .

[[PG]]=20
When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the intermediate
layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the resources
of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate stage.
This operation is made once and for all.

So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have to
subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that high pri=
ority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.

With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients and
the algorithm is not very clear to me.=20
For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the inter=
mediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a lower priorit=
y ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in priority then
indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
it is something easy to control.



> This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-
> empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).

JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted,=
 followed by my reply to 1), above

[[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.=20
Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an ODU2 LSP=
 with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for ODU 2. If=
 the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently from the fact =
that it is explicitly signaled or not.=20

This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe are re=
stored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting mechanism makes
some difference.=20

Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic bandwidth acc=
ounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some interm=
ediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no more pre-empta=
ble because a high priority ODUj forbids it.=20

>=20
> This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it has
> the following characteristics:
>=20
> [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism is
> just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I mean
> the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
>=20
> Only the second is completely new.

JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required to sup=
port them both from an architecture and development perspective is under di=
scussion

[[PG]]
The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing that c=
annot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say otherwise.=20
In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.

>=20
> 1)  The sub-layer LSPs share fate with the containing hierarchical LSP
>=20
> [[PG]] If I have well understood your hypothesis in your example ODU1 -
> > ODU2 -> ODU3, it must be that  ODU2 and ODU3 have terminations on the
> same
> interfaces. That same interfaces must be also able to demux ODU1 for
> switching.
> This MAY be true or not dependently from implementation of
> the mux/demux. If the mux/demux function is obtained cascading two
> interfaces within the same NE you can have a failure in the
> intermediate stage without having it in the ODUk. Probably in the case
> of cascaded interfaces the first method should be preferable.

JD:  My point was that if the containing hierarchical LSP fails, all of the=
 intermediate switching stage LSPs also fail.
[[PG]] Yes

Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate switchi=
ng stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the other endpoi=
nt regardless of the method used to initially establish that LSP, because t=
his is strictly internal to the node at which the LSP failed.

[[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a node=
=20
is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is implementation depe=
ndent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally, but it ma=
y also not happen.=20
Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate stages =
instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which method use cannot=
 be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
=20

>=20
> 3)  Similarly, and for the same reason, OAM for these sub-layer LSPs
> can only be done between the endpoints of the containing hierarchical
> LSPs.  AS AN ASIDE, control plane control of OTN OAM in general is in a
> nascent state and this construct has not been considered at all.
>=20
> [[PG]] If the operator chooses so and the function is not obtained with
> cascaded boards.

JD:  I don't understand your point
[[PG]] Sorry John, I was to much telegraphic.. The point is related to fate=
 sharing. When the intermediate stage is obtained cascading boards, OAM poi=
nts are not only at the end points because you may need to perform alarm
localization, so some sort of tandem monitoring should be equipped. But
I do not want really to enter this discussion.

The important point is that while having different HW architectures to obta=
in the same thing, some of them granting fate sharing and some not, it is a=
n operator choice to decide whether leave the control plane to use multi-st=
age labels or not.=20


>=20
> 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> construct.
>=20
> [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
> conceptually for OTN.

JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how the int=
ermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network management =
plane would neither understand nor care how the intermediate switching stag=
e LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two methods produce identica=
l results


[[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3 and V=
C4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport technology the con=
cepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also multi-technology (they sup=
port PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH as a whole).
 =20

>=20
> 5)  From a layer network perspective, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> LSP and the ODUj LSPs for which it is being used to switch would be
> visible BUT the sub-layer LSPs would not be.
>=20
> [[PG]] Yes. But it is an operator choice, not an HW implementation.

JD:  I don't understand your point.

[PG] OK. Let me explain better. The point is generic: since some functional=
ities for intermediate stages are lost , it is the operator that has to say=
 to CP: I allow usage of multi-stage and I know what I cannot do on interme=
diate stages.=20


>=20
> AND AGAIN, items 1) through 5) above are INVARIANT REGARDLESS of which
> of the two methods is selected to establish the sub-layer LSP within
> the containing hierarchical ODUk LSP.
>=20
> [[PG]] John this is another point of disagreement. The conditions are
> not invariant.
> With H-LSPs only you do not need to care about points 1 to 5 while
> instead all the conditions have to be satisfied in order to go with
> multi-stage labels and some of the conditions are operator choices not
> HW constraints. We should make in such a way that an operator can
> choose
> not to use the mechanism (even by error)

JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any dependency in =
them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching stage LSPs

[[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then multi-=
stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in any co=
ndition.
=20

From jdrake@juniper.net  Thu Jul  7 08:34:31 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Daniele Ceccarelli' <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 08:31:26 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fata=
i,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.&nbsp; Btw, you shoul=
d be more precise in your terminology =A8C we are discussing the capabiliti=
es of Node C=A1=AFs interfaces and not Node C=A1=AFs capabilities. <o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4=
.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding=
:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:l=
eft'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>=
From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif"'> Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednes=
day, July 06, 2011 8:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Daniele Ceccarelli'=
<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage=
 vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>I think you misinterpreted Daniele<span style=3D'font-=
family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s scenario and my question in another em=
ail. I am trying to make a clarification here together.<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>(1)Daniele<=
span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s scenario<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>In=
 Daniele<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s scenario, =
Node C cannot support ODU1 switching, it performs ODU2 into ODU3. I illustr=
ated this scenario, but replacing ODU1 with ODU0 to make it more understand=
able. In this scenario, Node C cannot support ODU0 switching.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Do yo=
u think multi-stage labels can handle this scenario? If yes, how to create =
ODU0 LSP with multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; As I have said repeatedly, multi-stage labels ar=
e used within the context of a multi-stage multi-hop hierarchical LSP, so I=
 don=A1=AFt think they apply to the following case. <o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'>I think an ODU2 hierarchical LSP needs to be created bet=
ween Node B=A1=AFs left facing interface and Node D=A1=AFs right facing int=
erface and that hierarchical LSP supports single stage ODU0 switching. <o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><img widt=
h=3D928 height=3D255 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.png@01CC3C7=
9.E7E64900"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>(2) Another scenario from me (that you misinterpreted =
in another email).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>In the following secnario, if Node C cannot supp=
ort ODU3 switching, how you can create ODU0 LSP with multi-stage labels?<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; See above=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><img width=3D933 height=3D233 id=3D=
"Picture_x0020_2" src=3D"cid:image002.png@01CC3C79.E7E64900"><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>Fr=
om: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-=
CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span>7<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:Si=
mSun'>=C8=D5</span> 23:26<br>To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang<br>Cc: CCA=
MP<br>Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Dan=
iele,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>I think the short answer is yes.&nbsp; I wouldn't necessari=
ly describe this situation as asymmetric because it is actually pair-wise s=
ymmetric; i.e., A &amp; B support ODU1 switching directly, B &amp; C suppor=
t ODU1 switching over a containing hierarchical ODU2 LSP (without multi-sta=
ge labels), C &amp; D support ODU1 switching over an ODU2 intermediate stag=
e switching LSP (with multi-stage label) within a containing hierarchical O=
DU3 LSP, and D &amp; E support ODU1 switching directly.<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsso=
n.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2=
011 7:20 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake; Fa=
tai Zhang<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage v=
s multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi John and all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; There is a=
 quite common scenario that i don't understand whether it is<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; supported or not by the multistage label.<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The scenario is simply a path where =
the multistage hierarchy is built<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; as a sequence of multiple single stages.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; E.g.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; A ------- B ---------- C -------------- D =
------ E<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ODU1&nbsp; +&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; ODU1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; + ODU1-&gt;ODU2 +&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; +<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3+<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This is an &quot;as=
ymmetric&quot; scenario, in which an ODU1 is carried from A to<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; B, it is muxed into an ODU2 in B and sent as=
 ODU1-&gt;ODU2 from B to C,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; then=
 another single stage muxing is performed muxing the ODU1-&gt;ODU2<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; into an ODU3 and the ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;O=
DU3 is carried form C to D. Node D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; performes a dual stage demuxing and extracts the ODU1. The ODU1 is then<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; delivered to E.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Is the multistage label able to set-up this kind of path?<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 I would like to have a single method too, but unless all scenarios are<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; covered also by the multi-stage lab=
el method i would prefer to have the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; sequential path messges as a must and the multi-stage method as<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; optional.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Origin=
al Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: ccamp-boun=
ces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; Sent: domenica 3 luglio 2011 15.23<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; To: Fatai Zhang<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CC=
AMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sinc=
e folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how about<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; using 'intermediate switching stage LSP'?<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; To answer your question, I don't agree with your second para=
graph.&nbsp; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; thought I had mad=
e it clear that I would prefer one method, either<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to establ=
ish<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; intermediate switching stage=
 LSPs, but not both.&nbsp; There is no reason to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; support both.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jo=
hn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; On Jul 2, 2011, a=
t 9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;&gt; wrote:=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Do you agree with my second paragr=
aph in my email below?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; If not, I would like to step furthe=
r to make something explicit.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Let's continue this example =
below. If there is no enough resource on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if Node =
C can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; not support ODU3 switching=
 but support ODU3 termination, how you can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Could you explain a little more?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; From: John E Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: Fatai Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@hua=
wei.com&gt; ; 'Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Bryskin'&lt;=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt; ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (PIETRO VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio=
.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; C=
c: 'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Please see the email I just sent to th=
e CCAMP&nbsp; mailing list in response<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; to Pietro<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s em=
ail.&nbsp; I think it also addresses the points in your email,<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line=
 analysis of it by you.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto=
:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Th=
ursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; T=
o: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject=
: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi Jo=
hn,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; OK, Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=
=AF</span>s converge.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I think you will agree that multi-st=
age labels can only be used for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
some cases rather than universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this example below,<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; we can create ODU3 FA LSP and th=
en use one single stage muxing (ie.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2 FA LSP and then =
use<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one single stage muxing (ODU=
0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For these two ways, there is no<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; need to use multi-stage labels. I think you can unders=
tand that these<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; two ways are bet=
ter and more efficient than your approach (two stages<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-LSP).<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to give<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the flexibility for the people to =
choose what they prefer for multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or multi-stage<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; labels in some cases. We have figure=
d out a perfect unified solution.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose this approach to<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; use. If people do not like multi-stag=
e labels, they can just choose<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; s=
ingle stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: John E Drake<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;m=
ailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</spa=
n>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>30<span lan=
g=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span> 12:13<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; '=
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stag=
e vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I had one clarifi=
cation.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on links, in<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; which case the <span style=3D'font-family:"Courie=
r New"'>=A1=AE</span>containing hierarchical LSP<span style=3D'font-family:=
"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span> is the link<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier=
 New"'>=A1=AF</span>s OUDk/OTUk,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 and they would be more efficient than signaling multiple one hop sub-<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; layer LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Howev=
er, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case, because<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; having awareness of individual ODUjs in the =
core of the network in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; inherentl=
y less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage hierarchical<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: 2011<sp=
an lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-=
CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>30<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'=
font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span> 11:37<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From:=
 Fatai Zhang<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@=
huawei.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; VITTORIO=
)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs mul=
ti stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; So, you admit that ODU0=
-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly by<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU=
3 before ODU0<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; request? because y=
ou assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA) is already<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; there.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; I =
think I actually stipulated this in an email I sent<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; you and others some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea =
is that you create the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; containin=
g hierarchical&nbsp; LSP first and then use it to establish&nbsp; OUDj<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; client&nbsp; LSPs and their required=
 sub-layer LSPs as needed, with the sub-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; layer LSPs being established using one of the two proposals being<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; discussed.<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; A fe=
w points for clarification, even though I follow your thought.<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is still H-<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSP concept there.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B ho=
lds it,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; establishes the ODU3 con=
taining hierarchical LSP to D,&nbsp; and then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; *either*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; 1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Creates the ODU2 sub-layer b=
y signaling D and then sends the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 ODU0 Path message to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-stage<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; If =
ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be regarded<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; as one-hop, because there is no differe=
nce between one-hop FA and one-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as one-hop scenario<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; rather than multi-hop (Please pay attenti=
on to this sentence that we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; are =
trying to make you understood many times).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; JD:&nbsp; I tol=
d Sergio and you&nbsp; last week that I didn<span style=3D'font-family:"Cou=
rier New"'>=A1=AF</span>t think multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and that=
 I only<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; considered them useful i=
n the context of multi-hop multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing hierarch=
ical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSP is between that LSP end=
points so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; If ODU3 between B and D is alread=
y there based on this example, why it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not just =
use the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; simple one stage muxing =
(ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please review our slides<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; again to get more information about cons of multi-stag=
e muxing(slide<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 5).<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; JD:&nbsp; You could, if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your fi=
gure I had<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; mentally edited out t=
he ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that we had an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; interesting scenario to discuss.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@j=
uniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: 2011<span =
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span> 23:39<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Su=
bject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fa=
tai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</=
span>s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between node B and<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; node D over which we want to establ=
ish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using the sub-layer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer ODU2<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hierarchical LSP between B and D and th=
en signal the ODU0.&nbsp; With multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an ODU2 multi-stage=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; label.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; As I =
have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some non-<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; zero amount of effort, but my preference is=
 for multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; strictl=
y from an efficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn<span style=3D'font-family=
:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>t enough difference<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from m=
y iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@hua=
wei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, Ju=
ne 29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E D=
rake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAM=
P] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some improper<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wording. Let<span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simpl=
e example<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; shown below.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Could you explain how to create ODU0 connect=
ion from Node A to Node E<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; by mul=
ti-stage labels approach? What information (e.g., traffic<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path=
 or Resv message? What<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; action sh=
ould be taken for Node C when receiving the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; message?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;image001.png&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org&gt; [mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; bounces@i=
etf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf Of<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=
=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span>=
29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span> 6:12<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTO=
RIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN si=
ngle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-stage labels apply equally we=
ll to multi-hop hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSP=
s. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; 2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarch=
y, as is, just works for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the est=
ablishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; switching.&nbsp; This involves a nested set of h=
ierarchical LSPs, the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; containing=
 hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs which provide<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; context for intermediate stage labels, betwee=
n the same two endpoints.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This i=
s a new construct and there are almost certainly details to be<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; worked out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; 3)&nbsp; I don't think we should standardize both approaches.&nbsp;=
 I would<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; prefer that the working=
 group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Tha=
nks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; From: Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;m=
ailto:[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 A=
M<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Jo=
hn E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: R=
E: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; Hi Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; You may not=
 like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he keeps<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; saying<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; repeatedly in this discus=
sion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 1) The point of C=
P signaling is to convey information pertinent to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; net=
work element provisioning in most efficient way. It does seem<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; stupid<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; to signal n=
umerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create and<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart implications, etc.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as iden=
tification of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; new type of network resources control=
led by GMPLS. Even the GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; god=
-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; fathers would agree that they never meant to limi=
t GMPLS to control<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; the<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate multi-stage<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you cho=
ose to do so.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original=
 Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; bounces@ietf.org]<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Of GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June=
 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single s=
tage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Hello John,=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 1) You have forwarded to the C=
Camp mailing list a number of private<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; mails without a=
sking the permission to the involved people. This is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
impolite and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four threads<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated t=
o follow<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; people not involved in the discussion since the beginning. Moreover=
,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; this happened after a discussion from scratch was=
 already started in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 3) You moved from a technical discussion to ar=
rogant and deliberate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; personal offenses not supported=
 by any sound technical motivation as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; reported in you=
r mails and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &quo=
t;This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical LSP,<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad =
it is not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; even<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &quot; It mig=
ht be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and found<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; them, shall we say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from a<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; purely<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; tech=
nical point of view.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pietro, Se=
rgio and Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pietro =
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolutio=
n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Mail: &lt;mailto:pietro_v=
ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grand<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; i@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like=
 a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; That's<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; bounces@ietf.org]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 Sent: marted<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 28 giu=
gno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subjec=
t: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent from=
 my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: John E Drake<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonatha=
n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria; &lt;mailt=
o:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Thanks=
,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Fatai Zhang<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@=
huawei.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursd=
ay, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VIT=
TORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Vallin=
ayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.c=
om.cn&gt;; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Dieg=
o Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele Cecc=
arelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs mul=
ti stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi John,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I guess that you did not=
 review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
JD:&nbsp; I will let this pass.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; You just see the only advantage for the co=
rner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; establish<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see t=
he issues that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; describe=
d in the slides and the issues that Jonathan mentioned<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (eg.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; OAM/protection issu=
es).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry that I=
 didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I don't think<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; one-hop hierarchical LS=
P case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is either<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; intere=
sting or common and it was not the case to which I was<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; addressing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; my comments.&n=
bsp; Rather, I was describing two ways of establishing<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; hop multi-stage hierarc=
hical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Jon=
athan raised in this context are red herrings rather than blue<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regardless of which of the two approac=
hes I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; described is used, the issues, if any, would be=
 exactly the same.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hiera=
rchy must be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; used in many cases, even though we =
have multi-stage label approach.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; E.g., an ODU0 c=
onnection request from A to E through B, C and D,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; B,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; C=
 and&nbsp; D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, the HO<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or O=
DU4) LSP must be created between B and D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; through=
 LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there are<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lots<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; of tran=
sforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Please see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with yo=
u and was simply<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; pointing out that multi-stage labels=
 can be used to improve wrt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 latency<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; and control plane overhead, the establishmen=
t of ODUj LSPs within<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; From: &quot;John E Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; .net&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.g<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; randi@alcatel-lucent.com&lt;mail=
to:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; lucen<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; t.com&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarel=
li@ericsson<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; .com&lt;ma=
ilto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:r=
rao@infinera.co<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; m&gt;&=
gt;; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai=
@huawei.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfat<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ai@huawei.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Khuzema<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pithewan&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;ma=
ilto:kpithewan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; @infinera.com&gt;=
&gt;; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;&=
lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@=
alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;akun=
jidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mail<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 to:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Diego Caviglia&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mai=
lto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&lt;mailto<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; :diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;&g=
t;; &quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.B=
alls@metaswitch.com&lt;mailt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; o:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@=
Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; m.cn&gt;&gt;; &quot;NSN - Cyril Margari=
a&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &l=
t;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto:cyr=
il.ma<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; rgaria@nsn.com&gt;&gt=
;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;Li Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@hu=
awei.com&lt;mailto:huawei.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; danli=
@huawei.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Har=
dwick@metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&gt;&gt=
;; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sadl=
er&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.c=
om&lt;mailto<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; :jonathan.sadler@te=
llabs.com&gt;&gt;; &quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:valli@ju=
niper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.ne<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; t&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Se=
nt: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE:=
 RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; If we are talking about the establishment o=
f LSPs using single-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; stage<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new lab=
el format,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; which<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; believe is a bit map of tribu=
tary slots; i.e., LSP establishment<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; using<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; single-stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; We have never had a situation such as multi-stage m=
uxing before so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; we<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; are breaking new ground and we have two choices, ei=
ther use LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchy to establish multiple sin=
gle-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within the=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; message for the ODUj=
 such that the sub-layers are established<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; implic=
itly and concurrently with the establishment of the ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Either will work, but it seems to me t=
hat the latter is more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do not=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; want<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; to<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; do is to say that both are supported.&nbsp; If we=
 can agree that we will<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; only use one method to e=
stablish multi-stage LSPs, then when a node<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; adve=
rtises multi-stage support in routing, we know how signaling is<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; be accomplished.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@al=
catel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, June 20=
, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzem=
a Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok=
 Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte=
.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tell=
abs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Vallinaya=
kam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN sing=
le stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; It seems as though you consider on the same level something (H-<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t; concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with something<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; does not exist at all.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Operators are used to managed their CP netwo=
rk together with NMS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the NMS work =
per-layer. The utilization of a multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; labe=
l<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; would force NMS to work in another mann=
er with heavy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; imp=
lementation<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; consequences.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We should also keep in mind =
that multi-stage label approach can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; only<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; used in some cases (not f=
or all the one-hop multi-stage muxing)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; it<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt; will bring some management issues. Please see the slides that<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sent a few days ago.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; For both these reasons the &quot;optional&qu=
ot; condition of multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro, Sergio, Fatai &amp; Dani=
ele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestria=
l Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent=
 Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Mail: &lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat=
el-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
 pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.g<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; randi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and i=
t seems like an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Or=
iginal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:jdrake@junipe=
r.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt; Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: =
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; C=
c: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego=
 Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ball=
s; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.x=
ihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt; Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: RSV=
P OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We can certainly say that a node that advertises multis=
tage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; suppor=
t in routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; As I said before, using mutiple RSVP e=
xchanges between the same<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; endpoints to establish interme=
diate switching stages seems ill-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; considere=
d and forcing everyone to support two ways of signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt; multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55=
 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com&lt;http://l=
ucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; el-lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vitt=
orio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hello John,<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I understand that=
 you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; routing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; should also convey implic=
itly the information that a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage lab=
el is supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt; I do not agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I=
mplementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; possible<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (and<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; already standard) and the fact the a node supports<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the new switching type is not enough to clea=
rly tell what is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ________________________________<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[=
mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: venerd=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 17 giugno 2011 2.09=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTOR=
IO); Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Ceccarelli;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI,=
 SERGIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO);=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Ste=
ve Balls'; 'Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt; Ong'; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Marga=
ria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs mult=
i stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pie=
tro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Actual=
ly we are already covered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; switching type, which =
is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This means<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; that<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; get to define =
the signaling used for this switching type, and I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; am<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; proposing that we use =
multistage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Jo=
hn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent fr=
om my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; lucent.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao=
; Fatai Zhang;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua=
@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.=
xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayak=
am Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN singl=
e stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; I&nbsp; agree with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; in my mind this means that single sta=
ge label support is implicit<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage labels should =
not be used unless a machine explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; dec=
lares the support.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pietro Vittorio Grand=
i<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Mail:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;&lt;ma=
ilto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_v<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt; ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; tel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.co=
m&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; el-lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.gra=
ndi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sit with a pretty girl for=
 an hour, and it seems like a&nbsp; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; That=
's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
From: Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; [mailto:daniele.ceccarel=
li@ericsson.com]&lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ce<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ccarelli@ericsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</=
span> 16 giugno 2011 15.48<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake=
; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; BELOTTI,<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRAN=
DI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mail=
to:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonath=
an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Val=
linayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RSVP OTN si=
ngle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Assuming we s=
till have not decided whether we're going to support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i believe<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; as<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibil=
ity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; An imp=
lementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been told<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; dep=
recate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage only<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover backward<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; BR<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
 ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Joh=
n E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=
=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 8.53<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Rajan=
 Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
 Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihu=
a@zt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; e.com.cn&gt;=
; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonath=
an Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sadler';<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support for<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; stage Vs Single =
Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I didn't want to allow interopera=
bility options.&nbsp; I much<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; pre=
ferred<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; say that we=
 do signaling in one way only, using multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; labels.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; These are also need=
ed for signaling within&nbsp; hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Rajan Rao<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:=
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednes=
day, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Daniele Cec=
carelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Pithewan;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidha=
patham<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=
 VITTORIO)'; Diego Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;=
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt; e.com.cn&gt;; 'NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Margaria';=
 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF dr=
aft (support for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt; While we are making updates, let us discuss support required=
 in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; advertisemen=
t for single/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Given that there is interest in both multi-sta=
ge label and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; single-<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; with H-LSPs, we shoul=
d consider inclusion of a FLAG to indicate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; what<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This will address =
some of the issues we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; have<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt; discussed in the past relating to path computation involving NEs<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; different capabiliti=
es (inter-op).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:31:11 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Snipped, comments inline.

Sent from my iPhone


> Hello John,
>=20
> Point by point in line with technical consideration.
>=20
> Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility an
> operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from the
> way
> in which an LSP is signaled.
>=20
> When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.

JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate switchi=
ng stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages (method 1)=
 or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
 =20
> Moreover, the operator will not have available certain functionalities
> for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> labels.
> So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use of
> multi-stage label.
>=20

JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by 'rest=
oration' in the above text and how you think it will be accomplished using =
GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this multiple times and I think ei=
ther one or both of us is confused.

>=20
> This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to have
> multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> until
> it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)

JD:  My preference has always been one method.

> >
> > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> LSP
> > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> endpoints
> > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> hierarchical
> > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1
> > LSP.
> >
> > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> are
> > impacting on it.
>=20
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
>=20
> [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.

JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section 6.3 =
of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj =
service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk transport =
LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.

>=20
> > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> stages
> > ?
>=20
> JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> switching stage LSPs.
>=20
> This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs as
> well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed and
> addressed.
>=20
> This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
>=20
> [[PG]]
> When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the intermediate
> layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> resources
> of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> stage.
> This operation is made once and for all.
>=20
> So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have to
> subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that high
> priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.

>=20
> With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients and
> the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in priority
> then
> indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> it is something easy to control.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs work.

>=20
>=20
>=20
> > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-
> > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
>=20
> JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
>=20
> [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an ODU2
> LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.

JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth available fo=
r the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=3D ODU3) trans=
port LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the intermediate switching=
 stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally wrote, above, it is the ODUj =
LSPs that would be pre-empted.=20

>=20
> This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> mechanism makes
> some difference.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.

>=20
> Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic bandwidth
> accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no more
> pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise intermediat=
e switching stage bandwidth. =20

>=20
> >
> > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> has
> > the following characteristics:
> >
> > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> is
> > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> mean
> > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> >
> > Only the second is completely new.
>=20
> JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required to
> support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> under discussion
>=20
> [[PG]]
> The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say otherwise.
> In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.

JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling the en=
dpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also the addres=
ses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is allowed in RFC 610=
7, I am not sure that implementations would allow this.

We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to indic=
ate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage LSP.

And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need to in=
dicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling message for =
an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
=20
>=20
> Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> LSP failed.
>=20
> [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> node
> is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is implementation
> dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> but it may also not happen.
> Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which method
> use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.

JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it transparently =
or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally visible.  If it can't, =
it should indicate that the affected ODUJ service LSPs have failed.

Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
  =20
>=20
> >
> > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > construct.
> >
> > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
> > conceptually for OTN.
>=20
> JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how the
> intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> management plane would neither understand nor care how the intermediate
> switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> methods produce identical results
>=20
>=20
> [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH as
> a whole).

JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a 'stacked h=
ierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical LSP (the ODUk =
transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate switching stage LSPs, =
where the endpoints of both the containing hierarchical LSP and the interme=
diate switching stage LSPs are congruent. =20

It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few concer=
ns about it.

> JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any dependency
> in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> stage LSPs
>=20
> [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> any condition.

JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to multi-sta=
ge labels.=20

From jdrake@juniper.net  Thu Jul  7 13:16:53 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 13:13:23 -0700
Thread-Topic: John's Terminology (Was RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Subject: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Hi,

Snipped, comments inline.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> >>
> >> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
> >> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
> >> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.
> The
> >> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
> >> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not
> standardized.)
> >
> > JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
> > intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
> > endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP.

JD:  We first signal a containing hierarchical LSP.  (I use the term 'conta=
ining' simply to indicate that everything else is contained within it.)  Th=
is is the ODUk transport LSP the endpoints of which have an RSVP signaling =
adjacency used to establish ODUj service LSPs which transit it.

If j < k - 1, the ODUk transport LSP is performing multi-stage switching, e=
.g., ODU1 <-> ODU2 <-> ODU3 (where right arrows indicate multiplexing and l=
eft arrows indicate de-multiplexing), and hierarchical LSPs need to be esta=
blished for the intermediate switching stages.  I use the term 'intermediat=
e switching stage LSP' to describe such an LSP, which in this example is th=
e ODU2 LSP.

'Sequential hierarchical LSPs' is the term used to indicate that the interm=
ediate switching stage LSPs are explicitly established to complete the OTN =
multi-stage switching path between the ODUj service LSPs and the ODUk trans=
port LSP.  'Multi-stage labels' is the term used to indicate that the inter=
mediate switching stage LSPs are implicitly established as part of the esta=
blishment of select ODUj service LSPs.

It should be noted that if the ODUk transport LSP provides switching of mul=
tiple types of ODUj service LSPs, then there may be multiple sets of interm=
ediate switching stage LSPs, one for each different type of ODUj service LS=
P.

Finally, the term 'stacked hierarchical LSP' refers to an ODUk transport LS=
P and one or more sets of intermediate switching stage LSPs.  This construc=
t has the interesting property that the endpoints of the ODUk transport LSP=
 and the endpoints of the intermediate switching stage LSPs are congruent.

Thanks,

John

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Thu Jul  7 20:24:21 2011
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Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:23:11 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Hi all,

 

The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard
time.

 

We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged
draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going
to summarize what we have achieved, J.

 

Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active
experts.

 

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt

 

 

Thanks
 
Fatai

 


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style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The =
merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard =
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would =
like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged draft =
and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to =
summarize what we have achieved, </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span =
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to all the people including the authors, contributors and active =
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xt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</=
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style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai</span><span =
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Hello John.

SNIP:

" JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by 're=
storation' in the above text and how you think it will be accomplished usin=
g GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this multiple times and I think =
either one or both of us is confused."

In transport, we distinguish between protection and restoration.
Protection is always based on data-plane mechanisms. An example is 1+1 prot=
ection where CP signals protection set-up and changes of states
but the switch is usually performed by dataplane depending from OAM.

For LSP reroute, either pre-computed or on the fly when detecting an alarm.
LSP reroute is always performed via GMPLS signaling.

Note that the two mechanisms (protection and restoration) can be combined t=
ogether in order to achieve speed (from protection) and efficiency in resou=
rce allocation (from restoration). =20
You can find some restoration schemas in RFC 4427.
The analysis of mechanisms is in RFC 4428.
These originated RFC 4872 and RFC 4873.
Note that GMPLS restoration is in field in our transport networks since at =
least 10 years even if the RFCs are more recent.

How is this connected to the two mechanism:

In the case of all H-LSP the intermediate stages have associated an LSP and=
 a logical interface. It is possible to re-route the  intermediate LSPs wit=
hout re-signaling ODUjs.=20
This feature MUST be supported in OTN networks as explicitly allowed by OTN=
 architecture.

In the case of multi-stage label only ODUj can be rerouted.

So when using one mechanism or the other the operator is making a choice.

The first mechanism has to be used if the intermediate stage has to be rest=
ored. The fact that in some case the intermediate stage is single hop
is not meaningful.
Note that the multi-stage label mechanism also prevents setting up 1+1
protections on intermediate stages via control plane.   =20

Control plane simply cannot take the responsibility to operate such choices=
.

Hope this clarifies.

Pietro
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Snipped, comments inline.

Sent from my iPhone


> Hello John,
>=20
> Point by point in line with technical consideration.
>=20
> Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility an
> operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from the
> way
> in which an LSP is signaled.
>=20
> When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.

JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate switchi=
ng stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages (method 1)=
 or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
 =20
> Moreover, the operator will not have available certain functionalities
> for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> labels.
> So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use of
> multi-stage label.
>=20

JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by 'rest=
oration' in the above text and how you think it will be accomplished using =
GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this multiple times and I think ei=
ther one or both of us is confused.

>=20
> This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to have
> multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> until
> it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)

JD:  My preference has always been one method.

> >
> > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> LSP
> > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> endpoints
> > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> hierarchical
> > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1
> > LSP.
> >
> > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> are
> > impacting on it.
>=20
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
>=20
> [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.

JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section 6.3 =
of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj =
service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk transport =
LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.

>=20
> > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> stages
> > ?
>=20
> JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> switching stage LSPs.
>=20
> This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs as
> well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed and
> addressed.
>=20
> This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
>=20
> [[PG]]
> When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the intermediate
> layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> resources
> of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> stage.
> This operation is made once and for all.
>=20
> So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have to
> subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that high
> priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.

>=20
> With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients and
> the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in priority
> then
> indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> it is something easy to control.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs work.

>=20
>=20
>=20
> > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-
> > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
>=20
> JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
>=20
> [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an ODU2
> LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.

JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth available fo=
r the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=3D ODU3) trans=
port LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the intermediate switching=
 stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally wrote, above, it is the ODUj =
LSPs that would be pre-empted.=20

>=20
> This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> mechanism makes
> some difference.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.

>=20
> Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic bandwidth
> accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no more
> pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise intermediat=
e switching stage bandwidth. =20

>=20
> >
> > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> has
> > the following characteristics:
> >
> > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> is
> > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> mean
> > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> >
> > Only the second is completely new.
>=20
> JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required to
> support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> under discussion
>=20
> [[PG]]
> The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say otherwise.
> In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.

JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling the en=
dpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also the addres=
ses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is allowed in RFC 610=
7, I am not sure that implementations would allow this.

We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to indic=
ate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage LSP.

And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need to in=
dicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling message for =
an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
=20
>=20
> Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> LSP failed.
>=20
> [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> node
> is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is implementation
> dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> but it may also not happen.
> Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which method
> use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.

JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it transparently =
or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally visible.  If it can't, =
it should indicate that the affected ODUJ service LSPs have failed.

Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
  =20
>=20
> >
> > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > construct.
> >
> > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
> > conceptually for OTN.
>=20
> JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how the
> intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> management plane would neither understand nor care how the intermediate
> switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> methods produce identical results
>=20
>=20
> [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH as
> a whole).

JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a 'stacked h=
ierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical LSP (the ODUk =
transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate switching stage LSPs, =
where the endpoints of both the containing hierarchical LSP and the interme=
diate switching stage LSPs are congruent. =20

It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few concer=
ns about it.

> JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any dependency
> in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> stage LSPs
>=20
> [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> any condition.

JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to multi-sta=
ge labels.=20

From pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jul  8 02:05:18 2011
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Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hello John

Snip: " Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section 6=
.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email, the intermediate switc=
hing stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj service LSP.  More imp=
ortantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk transport LSP also inherits the =
ODUj holding priority."

I did not remember that section. The bandwidth accounting point is closed.

Pietro

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)


-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Snipped, comments inline.

Sent from my iPhone


> Hello John,
>=20
> Point by point in line with technical consideration.
>=20
> Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility an
> operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from the
> way
> in which an LSP is signaled.
>=20
> When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.

JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate switchi=
ng stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages (method 1)=
 or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
 =20
> Moreover, the operator will not have available certain functionalities
> for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> labels.
> So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use of
> multi-stage label.
>=20

JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by 'rest=
oration' in the above text and how you think it will be accomplished using =
GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this multiple times and I think ei=
ther one or both of us is confused.

>=20
> This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to have
> multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> until
> it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)

JD:  My preference has always been one method.

> >
> > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> LSP
> > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> endpoints
> > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> hierarchical
> > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1
> > LSP.
> >
> > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> are
> > impacting on it.
>=20
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
>=20
> [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.

JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section 6.3 =
of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj =
service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk transport =
LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.

>=20
> > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> stages
> > ?
>=20
> JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> switching stage LSPs.
>=20
> This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs as
> well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed and
> addressed.
>=20
> This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
>=20
> [[PG]]
> When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the intermediate
> layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> resources
> of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> stage.
> This operation is made once and for all.
>=20
> So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have to
> subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that high
> priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.

>=20
> With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients and
> the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in priority
> then
> indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> it is something easy to control.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs work.

>=20
>=20
>=20
> > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-
> > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
>=20
> JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
>=20
> [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an ODU2
> LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.

JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth available fo=
r the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=3D ODU3) trans=
port LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the intermediate switching=
 stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally wrote, above, it is the ODUj =
LSPs that would be pre-empted.=20

>=20
> This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> mechanism makes
> some difference.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.

>=20
> Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic bandwidth
> accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no more
> pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise intermediat=
e switching stage bandwidth. =20

>=20
> >
> > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> has
> > the following characteristics:
> >
> > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> is
> > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> mean
> > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> >
> > Only the second is completely new.
>=20
> JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required to
> support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> under discussion
>=20
> [[PG]]
> The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say otherwise.
> In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.

JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling the en=
dpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also the addres=
ses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is allowed in RFC 610=
7, I am not sure that implementations would allow this.

We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to indic=
ate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage LSP.

And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need to in=
dicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling message for =
an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
=20
>=20
> Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> LSP failed.
>=20
> [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> node
> is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is implementation
> dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> but it may also not happen.
> Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which method
> use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.

JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it transparently =
or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally visible.  If it can't, =
it should indicate that the affected ODUJ service LSPs have failed.

Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
  =20
>=20
> >
> > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > construct.
> >
> > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
> > conceptually for OTN.
>=20
> JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how the
> intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> management plane would neither understand nor care how the intermediate
> switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> methods produce identical results
>=20
>=20
> [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH as
> a whole).

JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a 'stacked h=
ierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical LSP (the ODUk =
transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate switching stage LSPs, =
where the endpoints of both the containing hierarchical LSP and the interme=
diate switching stage LSPs are congruent. =20

It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few concer=
ns about it.

> JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any dependency
> in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> stage LSPs
>=20
> [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> any condition.

JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to multi-sta=
ge labels.=20

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  8 06:05:12 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:04:22 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Pietro,

I actually had a faint hope that you would tell me something I did not alre=
ady know.

You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at one of it=
s endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that endpoint's re-estab=
lishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I don't believe this makes =
any sense.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:08 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hello John.
>
> SNIP:
>
> " JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused."
>
> In transport, we distinguish between protection and restoration.
> Protection is always based on data-plane mechanisms. An example is 1+1
> protection where CP signals protection set-up and changes of states
> but the switch is usually performed by dataplane depending from OAM.
>
> For LSP reroute, either pre-computed or on the fly when detecting an
> alarm.
> LSP reroute is always performed via GMPLS signaling.
>
> Note that the two mechanisms (protection and restoration) can be
> combined together in order to achieve speed (from protection) and
> efficiency in resource allocation (from restoration).
> You can find some restoration schemas in RFC 4427.
> The analysis of mechanisms is in RFC 4428.
> These originated RFC 4872 and RFC 4873.
> Note that GMPLS restoration is in field in our transport networks since
> at least 10 years even if the RFCs are more recent.
>
> How is this connected to the two mechanism:
>
> In the case of all H-LSP the intermediate stages have associated an LSP
> and a logical interface. It is possible to re-route the  intermediate
> LSPs without re-signaling ODUjs.
> This feature MUST be supported in OTN networks as explicitly allowed by
> OTN architecture.
>
> In the case of multi-stage label only ODUj can be rerouted.
>
> So when using one mechanism or the other the operator is making a
> choice.
>
> The first mechanism has to be used if the intermediate stage has to be
> restored. The fact that in some case the intermediate stage is single
> hop
> is not meaningful.
> Note that the multi-stage label mechanism also prevents setting up 1+1
> protections on intermediate stages via control plane.
>
> Control plane simply cannot take the responsibility to operate such
> choices.
>
> Hope this clarifies.
>
> Pietro
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's
> relativity.
> (A. Einstein)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Snipped, comments inline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > Hello John,
> >
> > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> >
> > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility
> an
> > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from
> the
> > way
> > in which an LSP is signaled.
> >
> > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.
>
> JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages
> (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
>
> > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> functionalities
> > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > labels.
> > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use
> of
> > multi-stage label.
> >
>
> JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
>
> >
> > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> have
> > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> > until
> > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
>
> JD:  My preference has always been one method.
>
> > >
> > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> > LSP
> > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > endpoints
> > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > hierarchical
> > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an
> ODU1
> > > LSP.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> > are
> > > impacting on it.
> >
> > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> >
> > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
>
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section
> 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
>
> >
> > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > stages
> > > ?
> >
> > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs.
> >
> > This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs
> as
> > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed
> and
> > addressed.
> >
> > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> >
> > [[PG]]
> > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> intermediate
> > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > resources
> > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> > stage.
> > This operation is made once and for all.
> >
> > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have
> to
> > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that
> high
> > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
>
> JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
>
> >
> > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients
> and
> > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> priority
> > then
> > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> > it is something easy to control.
>
> JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> work.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> pre-
> > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> >
> > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> >
> > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an
> ODU2
> > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
>
> JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=
=3D
> ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
>
> >
> > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > mechanism makes
> > some difference.
>
> JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
>
> >
> > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> bandwidth
> > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no
> more
> > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
>
> JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
>
> >
> > >
> > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> > has
> > > the following characteristics:
> > >
> > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> > is
> > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> > mean
> > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> > >
> > > Only the second is completely new.
> >
> > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required
> to
> > support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> > under discussion
> >
> > [[PG]]
> > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> otherwise.
> > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
>
> JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling
> the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also
> the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> this.
>
> We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to
> indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage
> LSP.
>
> And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need
> to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
>
> >
> > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> > LSP failed.
> >
> > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> > node
> > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> implementation
> > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> > but it may also not happen.
> > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> method
> > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
>
> JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> service LSPs have failed.
>
> Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
>
> >
> > >
> > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > > construct.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> changes
> > > conceptually for OTN.
> >
> > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> the
> > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > methods produce identical results
> >
> >
> > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH
> as
> > a whole).
>
> JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical
> LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> congruent.
>
> It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few
> concerns about it.
>
> > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> dependency
> > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> > stage LSPs
> >
> > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> > any condition.
>
> JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> multi-stage labels.

From pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jul  8 06:23:06 2011
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From: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "'CCAMP'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:22:23 +0200
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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John,
I am sorry and I am really frustrated by the fact that I cannot find a way =
to make you understand that having the possibility to restore via GMPLS an =
intermediate layer without re-signaling all clients is a OTN networks requi=
rement. Not fulfilling it is unacceptable because forces operators to
perform choices they may not want to do.

The multi-stage label solution, while being consistent, does not solve this=
 specific problem, because it requires that intermediate stages are not vis=
ible at all, while instead the requirement for OTN networks is that interme=
diate stages are visible and fully manageable.

Let me say that all of us would like to have just one mechanism, unfortunat=
ely in reality we cannot.

Pietro

P.S.
SNIP "You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at one=
 of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that endpoint's re=
-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I don't believe this =
makes any sense."

John, I will try to explain: A transport network element is built as a set =
of matrixes (one per layer), this means that each layer is cross connectabl=
e in an independent way. So each intermediate layer behaves exactly as the =
ODUj. Consequence: Intermediate stages can be rerouted. Grooming works in t=
his way, just to make a practical example.

Grooming is usual practice in transport networks.

Pietro

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)


-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: venerd=EC 8 luglio 2011 15.04
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Pietro,

I actually had a faint hope that you would tell me something I did not alre=
ady know.

You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at one of it=
s endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that endpoint's re-estab=
lishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I don't believe this makes =
any sense.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:08 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hello John.
>
> SNIP:
>
> " JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused."
>
> In transport, we distinguish between protection and restoration.
> Protection is always based on data-plane mechanisms. An example is 1+1
> protection where CP signals protection set-up and changes of states
> but the switch is usually performed by dataplane depending from OAM.
>
> For LSP reroute, either pre-computed or on the fly when detecting an
> alarm.
> LSP reroute is always performed via GMPLS signaling.
>
> Note that the two mechanisms (protection and restoration) can be
> combined together in order to achieve speed (from protection) and
> efficiency in resource allocation (from restoration).
> You can find some restoration schemas in RFC 4427.
> The analysis of mechanisms is in RFC 4428.
> These originated RFC 4872 and RFC 4873.
> Note that GMPLS restoration is in field in our transport networks since
> at least 10 years even if the RFCs are more recent.
>
> How is this connected to the two mechanism:
>
> In the case of all H-LSP the intermediate stages have associated an LSP
> and a logical interface. It is possible to re-route the  intermediate
> LSPs without re-signaling ODUjs.
> This feature MUST be supported in OTN networks as explicitly allowed by
> OTN architecture.
>
> In the case of multi-stage label only ODUj can be rerouted.
>
> So when using one mechanism or the other the operator is making a
> choice.
>
> The first mechanism has to be used if the intermediate stage has to be
> restored. The fact that in some case the intermediate stage is single
> hop
> is not meaningful.
> Note that the multi-stage label mechanism also prevents setting up 1+1
> protections on intermediate stages via control plane.
>
> Control plane simply cannot take the responsibility to operate such
> choices.
>
> Hope this clarifies.
>
> Pietro
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's
> relativity.
> (A. Einstein)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Snipped, comments inline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > Hello John,
> >
> > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> >
> > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility
> an
> > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from
> the
> > way
> > in which an LSP is signaled.
> >
> > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.
>
> JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages
> (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
>
> > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> functionalities
> > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > labels.
> > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use
> of
> > multi-stage label.
> >
>
> JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
>
> >
> > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> have
> > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> > until
> > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
>
> JD:  My preference has always been one method.
>
> > >
> > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> > LSP
> > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > endpoints
> > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > hierarchical
> > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an
> ODU1
> > > LSP.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> > are
> > > impacting on it.
> >
> > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> >
> > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
>
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section
> 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
>
> >
> > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > stages
> > > ?
> >
> > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs.
> >
> > This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs
> as
> > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed
> and
> > addressed.
> >
> > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> >
> > [[PG]]
> > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> intermediate
> > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > resources
> > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> > stage.
> > This operation is made once and for all.
> >
> > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have
> to
> > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that
> high
> > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
>
> JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
>
> >
> > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients
> and
> > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> priority
> > then
> > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> > it is something easy to control.
>
> JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> work.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> pre-
> > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> >
> > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> >
> > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an
> ODU2
> > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
>
> JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=
=3D
> ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
>
> >
> > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > mechanism makes
> > some difference.
>
> JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
>
> >
> > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> bandwidth
> > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no
> more
> > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
>
> JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
>
> >
> > >
> > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> > has
> > > the following characteristics:
> > >
> > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> > is
> > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> > mean
> > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> > >
> > > Only the second is completely new.
> >
> > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required
> to
> > support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> > under discussion
> >
> > [[PG]]
> > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> otherwise.
> > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
>
> JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling
> the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also
> the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> this.
>
> We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to
> indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage
> LSP.
>
> And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need
> to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
>
> >
> > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> > LSP failed.
> >
> > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> > node
> > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> implementation
> > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> > but it may also not happen.
> > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> method
> > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
>
> JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> service LSPs have failed.
>
> Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
>
> >
> > >
> > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > > construct.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> changes
> > > conceptually for OTN.
> >
> > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> the
> > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > methods produce identical results
> >
> >
> > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH
> as
> > a whole).
>
> JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical
> LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> congruent.
>
> It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few
> concerns about it.
>
> > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> dependency
> > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> > stage LSPs
> >
> > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> > any condition.
>
> JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> multi-stage labels.

From cyril.margaria@nsn.com  Fri Jul  8 06:24:39 2011
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Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<4DF654C6.3070304@grotto-networking.com>	<D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2027CAC27@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	A	<7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com>	<D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	<7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com>	<4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com>	<4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com>	<CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com>	<4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com>
From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: "ext Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, <ccamp@ietf.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2011 13:24:29.0119 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D80CCF0:01CC3D72]
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
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Hi CCAMPers, Greg,=20

Thanks greg for your point of view, this can help clarifying some =
points.
Please find below clarifications on the point you raised.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =

> Of ext Greg Bernstein
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 4:50 PM
> To: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR:
> New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
>=20
> Hi CCAMPers, none of the changes to the current WSON WG drafts listed=20
> below are necessary to achieve the stated goals, i.e., the current=20
> mechanisms suffice please see details below. We can offer an offline=20
> tutorial session to interested parties in Quebec city as it seems=20
> there is a lack of understanding of (a) the current WSON drafts, and=20
> (b) GMPLS protocols in general.
>
>=20
> Best Regards
> Greg
>=20
> On 7/4/2011 8:02 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> > Hello CCAMPer's,
> >
> > Following Lou's suggestion, this email intends to summarize the main =

> > changes introduced by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, viewed from=20
> > the information model, we end-up with 3 of them:
> >      0. IMPORTANT REMINDER OF ONE OF THE PIECES THAT WAS NOT =
CHANGED:
> > Resource block =3D group of devices with same features and same=20
> > connectivity constraints.
> >
> >      1. Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model,=20
> > which allows the definition of several resource entites per node=20
> > independantly floodable.
> > MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup =

> > or tear down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same =

> > connectivity constraints)
>
> --> There is already a standard mechanism in OSPF-TE for achieving=20
> --> this
> (multiple LSA instances) which is already in common use in MPLS and=20
> GMPLS so this change is unneeded. The current WSON encoding model=20
> includes very fine granularity in sub-TLVs hence this change would not =

> achieve the stated "MOTIVATION" any better than the current approach.

The change proposed by draft-peloso does mandate (implicitly, this =
should=20
be definitely changed) to have one LSA instance per top level TLV.=20
The solution of current WG-drafts is less explicit regarding how many=20
TLVs should/may be flooded.
Would you then elaborate with text in the drafts giving recommendations
 on how to process different LSA instances referring to same sub-TLVs in =

the wson specific case. The processing is not explicitly stated, =
according
to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-11, there is one ResourcePool per node and=20
draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-04 state that this=20
ResourcePool is contained in the "Optical Node Property TLV".

So according to the draft a LSP setup would impact the following =
sub-TLVs :
  - "Resource Pool State Sub-TLV" : number of available device is =
changed
  - "Block Shared Access Wavelength Availability Sub-TLV " is also =
updated

Should this be new instances or reuse existing instances? How to merge =
the information?


> >      2. Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node =
entity
> > in order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
> > links and the resource pools.
> > MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for
> > OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit =
the
> > number of connectivity representations introduced by current =
extensions
> > (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs).
> >
> --> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with =
"wson
> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the
> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
> hence this change is unnecessary.

My co-authors and myself are aware of your interpretation of this =
solution
as being a mixing of generic and wson specific extensions.
Actually we are not sharing this interpretation, we consider this =
solution
as complying with the decision you're refering too.
The resulting connectivity matrix does not contains any FEC, wavelength,
modulation format information.
This kind of information is still separated in different elements.
Hence what you're interpreting as a mixing of wson and generic =
extensions
is nothing but the use in a generic element of unnumbered IDs.
By nature, all of these unnumbered IDs being defined in different LSAs,
as was already planned current WG drafts.
Considering that depending on the type of LSA which define these IDs,
the WG decision is betrayed or not is a position I let you advocate.


> >      3. Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to =
keep
> > only resource/device description (moved the number of devices away).
> > MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same
> > devices) blocks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of
> > information. b/ to create an independent flooding entity holding all
> > the resource descriptions (which are static), the decreasing the =
size
> > of updated information.
> --> This change (a) does not result in any size savings, and (b) is =
not
> necessary to "to create an independent flooding entity holding all the
> resource descriptions".  Resource block information is already a
> separate sub-TLV and the current resource block set mechanism provides
> a highly efficient method to indicate which resources blocks are
> associated with a particular type of resource.
>=20

I consider the contradiction to your statement is in the example you've =
been
providing in the email: "Current WSON encodings...".
In this example there are 200 wavelength converters of 10 different =
types,
spread over 4 physical pools/WC group.
Following the Resource Block definition, that gives 40 of those each =
having
a priori different number of wavelength converters.
So, a priori 40 different Resource Block Informations TLVs are needed,=20
which change significantly the size of the LSA.
By  giving-up the definition of Resource Block with the max-number, it =
creates=20
then 200 of those (one per wavelength converter).=20
This results in associating each individual wavelength converter to a =
one of the
10 different Resource Block Information TLV created.
Applying our solution, demands to determine 40 Resource Block IDs, then =
to define
10 different Resource Description TLV, associated each with 4 of the =
preceding Resource Block IDs.

Is this analysis correct, is it the reason why the max-number of =
resources
was not included in your example or is there another reason?

Best regards,

Cyril, Giovanni, Julien and Pierre

>=20
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Cyril, Giovanni, Julien and Pierre
> >
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la
> part
> > de Lou Berger Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 juin 2011 16:57 =C0 : Leeyoung;
> > draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo@tools.ietf.org
> > Cc : ccamp@ietf.org
> > Objet : [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New
> > Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
> >
>=20
> --
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  8 07:22:48 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 07:22:02 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Pietro,

Just to be clear, are we discussing the case of a stacked hierarchical LSP =
in which an intermediate switching stage LSP has failed at one of its endpo=
ints?

How does re-signaling that LSP between the two endpoints of the ODUk transp=
ort LSP help the endpoint at which the intermediate switching stage LSP has=
 failed to re-establish that LSP?

You have asserted that re-signaling helps and I just do not see how; the re=
-routing that you mention in your P.S. is strictly internal to node contain=
ing the endpoint of the failed intermediate switching stage LSP and that no=
de does not require re-signaling from the other endpoint in order to intern=
ally re-route the failed LSP.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:22 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>
> John,
> I am sorry and I am really frustrated by the fact that I cannot find a
> way to make you understand that having the possibility to restore via
> GMPLS an intermediate layer without re-signaling all clients is a OTN
> networks requirement. Not fulfilling it is unacceptable because forces
> operators to
> perform choices they may not want to do.
>
> The multi-stage label solution, while being consistent, does not solve
> this specific problem, because it requires that intermediate stages are
> not visible at all, while instead the requirement for OTN networks is
> that intermediate stages are visible and fully manageable.
>
> Let me say that all of us would like to have just one mechanism,
> unfortunately in reality we cannot.
>
> Pietro
>
> P.S.
> SNIP "You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at
> one of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that
> endpoint's re-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I
> don't believe this makes any sense."
>
> John, I will try to explain: A transport network element is built as a
> set of matrixes (one per layer), this means that each layer is cross
> connectable in an independent way. So each intermediate layer behaves
> exactly as the ODUj. Consequence: Intermediate stages can be rerouted.
> Grooming works in this way, just to make a practical example.
>
> Grooming is usual practice in transport networks.
>
> Pietro
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's
> relativity.
> (A. Einstein)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: venerd=EC 8 luglio 2011 15.04
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Pietro,
>
> I actually had a faint hope that you would tell me something I did not
> already know.
>
> You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at one
> of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that endpoint's
> re-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I don't believe
> this makes any sense.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:08 AM
> > To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Hello John.
> >
> > SNIP:
> >
> > " JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean
> by
> > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused."
> >
> > In transport, we distinguish between protection and restoration.
> > Protection is always based on data-plane mechanisms. An example is
> 1+1
> > protection where CP signals protection set-up and changes of states
> > but the switch is usually performed by dataplane depending from OAM.
> >
> > For LSP reroute, either pre-computed or on the fly when detecting an
> > alarm.
> > LSP reroute is always performed via GMPLS signaling.
> >
> > Note that the two mechanisms (protection and restoration) can be
> > combined together in order to achieve speed (from protection) and
> > efficiency in resource allocation (from restoration).
> > You can find some restoration schemas in RFC 4427.
> > The analysis of mechanisms is in RFC 4428.
> > These originated RFC 4872 and RFC 4873.
> > Note that GMPLS restoration is in field in our transport networks
> since
> > at least 10 years even if the RFCs are more recent.
> >
> > How is this connected to the two mechanism:
> >
> > In the case of all H-LSP the intermediate stages have associated an
> LSP
> > and a logical interface. It is possible to re-route the  intermediate
> > LSPs without re-signaling ODUjs.
> > This feature MUST be supported in OTN networks as explicitly allowed
> by
> > OTN architecture.
> >
> > In the case of multi-stage label only ODUj can be rerouted.
> >
> > So when using one mechanism or the other the operator is making a
> > choice.
> >
> > The first mechanism has to be used if the intermediate stage has to
> be
> > restored. The fact that in some case the intermediate stage is single
> > hop
> > is not meaningful.
> > Note that the multi-stage label mechanism also prevents setting up
> 1+1
> > protections on intermediate stages via control plane.
> >
> > Control plane simply cannot take the responsibility to operate such
> > choices.
> >
> > Hope this clarifies.
> >
> > Pietro
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> That's
> > relativity.
> > (A. Einstein)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > Hello John,
> > >
> > > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> > >
> > > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility
> > an
> > > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from
> > the
> > > way
> > > in which an LSP is signaled.
> > >
> > > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> > > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are
> high.
> >
> > JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> > switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path
> messages
> > (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
> >
> > > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> > functionalities
> > > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > > labels.
> > > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use
> > of
> > > multi-stage label.
> > >
> >
> > JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
> >
> > >
> > > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> > have
> > > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement
> it
> > > until
> > > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
> >
> > JD:  My preference has always been one method.
> >
> > > >
> > > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical
> ODU2
> > > LSP
> > > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > > endpoints
> > > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > > hierarchical
> > > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an
> > ODU1
> > > > LSP.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and
> restoration
> > > are
> > > > impacting on it.
> > >
> > > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> > >
> > > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate
> stages
> > > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used
> and
> > > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
> >
> > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per
> Section
> > 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> > the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> > ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> > transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
> >
> > >
> > > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > > stages
> > > > ?
> > >
> > > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs.
> > >
> > > This is actually an important differentiator between the two
> methods.
> > > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-
> up
> > > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage
> LSPs
> > as
> > > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed
> > and
> > > addressed.
> > >
> > > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when
> you
> > > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical
> LSPs
> > > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> > >
> > > [[PG]]
> > > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> > intermediate
> > > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > > resources
> > > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> > > stage.
> > > This operation is made once and for all.
> > >
> > > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have
> > to
> > > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that
> > high
> > > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
> >
> > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
> >
> > >
> > > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate
> stages
> > > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients
> > and
> > > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> > > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> > > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> > priority
> > > then
> > > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> > > it is something easy to control.
> >
> > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> > work.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> > pre-
> > > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> > >
> > > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be
> pre-
> > > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an
> > ODU2
> > > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting
> for
> > > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted
> independently
> > > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
> >
> > JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> > available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK
> (=3D
> > ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> > intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> > wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
> >
> > >
> > > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and
> maybe
> > > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > > mechanism makes
> > > some difference.
> >
> > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
> >
> > >
> > > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> > bandwidth
> > > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because
> some
> > > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no
> > more
> > > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
> >
> > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> > intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS
> of
> > > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs
> it
> > > has
> > > > the following characteristics:
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first
> mechanism
> > > is
> > > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> > > mean
> > > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
> LSP).
> > > >
> > > > Only the second is completely new.
> > >
> > > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work
> required
> > to
> > > support them both from an architecture and development perspective
> is
> > > under discussion
> > >
> > > [[PG]]
> > > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single
> thing
> > > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> > otherwise.
> > > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
> >
> > JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling
> > the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are
> also
> > the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> > allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> > this.
> >
> > We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to
> > indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching
> stage
> > LSP.
> >
> > And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need
> > to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> > message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
> >
> > >
> > > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> > > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to
> the
> > > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> > > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which
> the
> > > LSP failed.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say
> that
> > > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages
> traverse
> > > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that
> a
> > > node
> > > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> > implementation
> > > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem
> internally,
> > > but it may also not happen.
> > > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> > > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> > method
> > > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
> >
> > JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> > transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> > visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> > service LSPs have failed.
> >
> > Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand
> this
> > > > construct.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they
> work
> > > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> > changes
> > > > conceptually for OTN.
> > >
> > > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> > the
> > > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> > > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> > intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > > methods produce identical results
> > >
> > >
> > > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2,
> VC3
> > > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> > > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with
> SDH
> > as
> > > a whole).
> >
> > JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> > 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing
> hierarchical
> > LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> > hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> > congruent.
> >
> > It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few
> > concerns about it.
> >
> > > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> > dependency
> > > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> > > stage LSPs
> > >
> > > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied
> then
> > > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-
> LSPs
> > > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied
> in
> > > any condition.
> >
> > JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> > multi-stage labels.

From pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jul  8 07:56:02 2011
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From: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "'CCAMP'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:55:05 +0200
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Pietro,

Just to be clear, are we discussing the case of a stacked hierarchical LSP =
in which an intermediate switching stage LSP has failed at one of its endpo=
ints?

How does re-signaling that LSP between the two endpoints of the ODUk transp=
ort LSP help the endpoint at which the intermediate switching stage LSP has=
 failed to re-establish that LSP?

You have asserted that re-signaling helps and I just do not see how; the re=
-routing that you mention in your P.S. is strictly internal to node contain=
ing the endpoint of the failed intermediate switching stage LSP and that no=
de does not require re-signaling from the other endpoint in order to intern=
ally re-route the failed LSP.

[[PG]] I am speaking about a functionality: grooming, not about a specific =
case. When grooming traffic, the ODU used for grooming has to be rerouted.
It is not important if the ODU containing groomed traffic has been created =
single hop or not.
An operator may be willing to protect this grooming ODU (incidentally creat=
ed single hop)via for instance a 1+1 protection (implies internal protectio=
n) and in addition use also restoration in order to survive to a higher num=
ber of faults.

With multi stage label approach  how it is possible to do this functionalit=
y ?

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:22 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>
> John,
> I am sorry and I am really frustrated by the fact that I cannot find a
> way to make you understand that having the possibility to restore via
> GMPLS an intermediate layer without re-signaling all clients is a OTN
> networks requirement. Not fulfilling it is unacceptable because forces
> operators to
> perform choices they may not want to do.
>
> The multi-stage label solution, while being consistent, does not solve
> this specific problem, because it requires that intermediate stages are
> not visible at all, while instead the requirement for OTN networks is
> that intermediate stages are visible and fully manageable.
>
> Let me say that all of us would like to have just one mechanism,
> unfortunately in reality we cannot.
>
> Pietro
>
> P.S.
> SNIP "You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at
> one of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that
> endpoint's re-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I
> don't believe this makes any sense."
>
> John, I will try to explain: A transport network element is built as a
> set of matrixes (one per layer), this means that each layer is cross
> connectable in an independent way. So each intermediate layer behaves
> exactly as the ODUj. Consequence: Intermediate stages can be rerouted.
> Grooming works in this way, just to make a practical example.
>
> Grooming is usual practice in transport networks.
>
> Pietro
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's
> relativity.
> (A. Einstein)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: venerd=EC 8 luglio 2011 15.04
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Pietro,
>
> I actually had a faint hope that you would tell me something I did not
> already know.
>
> You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at one
> of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that endpoint's
> re-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I don't believe
> this makes any sense.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:08 AM
> > To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Hello John.
> >
> > SNIP:
> >
> > " JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean
> by
> > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused."
> >
> > In transport, we distinguish between protection and restoration.
> > Protection is always based on data-plane mechanisms. An example is
> 1+1
> > protection where CP signals protection set-up and changes of states
> > but the switch is usually performed by dataplane depending from OAM.
> >
> > For LSP reroute, either pre-computed or on the fly when detecting an
> > alarm.
> > LSP reroute is always performed via GMPLS signaling.
> >
> > Note that the two mechanisms (protection and restoration) can be
> > combined together in order to achieve speed (from protection) and
> > efficiency in resource allocation (from restoration).
> > You can find some restoration schemas in RFC 4427.
> > The analysis of mechanisms is in RFC 4428.
> > These originated RFC 4872 and RFC 4873.
> > Note that GMPLS restoration is in field in our transport networks
> since
> > at least 10 years even if the RFCs are more recent.
> >
> > How is this connected to the two mechanism:
> >
> > In the case of all H-LSP the intermediate stages have associated an
> LSP
> > and a logical interface. It is possible to re-route the  intermediate
> > LSPs without re-signaling ODUjs.
> > This feature MUST be supported in OTN networks as explicitly allowed
> by
> > OTN architecture.
> >
> > In the case of multi-stage label only ODUj can be rerouted.
> >
> > So when using one mechanism or the other the operator is making a
> > choice.
> >
> > The first mechanism has to be used if the intermediate stage has to
> be
> > restored. The fact that in some case the intermediate stage is single
> > hop
> > is not meaningful.
> > Note that the multi-stage label mechanism also prevents setting up
> 1+1
> > protections on intermediate stages via control plane.
> >
> > Control plane simply cannot take the responsibility to operate such
> > choices.
> >
> > Hope this clarifies.
> >
> > Pietro
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> That's
> > relativity.
> > (A. Einstein)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > Hello John,
> > >
> > > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> > >
> > > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility
> > an
> > > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from
> > the
> > > way
> > > in which an LSP is signaled.
> > >
> > > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> > > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are
> high.
> >
> > JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> > switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path
> messages
> > (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
> >
> > > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> > functionalities
> > > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > > labels.
> > > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use
> > of
> > > multi-stage label.
> > >
> >
> > JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
> >
> > >
> > > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> > have
> > > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement
> it
> > > until
> > > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
> >
> > JD:  My preference has always been one method.
> >
> > > >
> > > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical
> ODU2
> > > LSP
> > > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > > endpoints
> > > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > > hierarchical
> > > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an
> > ODU1
> > > > LSP.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and
> restoration
> > > are
> > > > impacting on it.
> > >
> > > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> > >
> > > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate
> stages
> > > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used
> and
> > > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
> >
> > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per
> Section
> > 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> > the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> > ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> > transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
> >
> > >
> > > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > > stages
> > > > ?
> > >
> > > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs.
> > >
> > > This is actually an important differentiator between the two
> methods.
> > > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-
> up
> > > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage
> LSPs
> > as
> > > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed
> > and
> > > addressed.
> > >
> > > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when
> you
> > > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical
> LSPs
> > > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> > >
> > > [[PG]]
> > > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> > intermediate
> > > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > > resources
> > > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> > > stage.
> > > This operation is made once and for all.
> > >
> > > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have
> > to
> > > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that
> > high
> > > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
> >
> > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
> >
> > >
> > > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate
> stages
> > > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients
> > and
> > > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> > > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> > > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> > priority
> > > then
> > > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> > > it is something easy to control.
> >
> > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> > work.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> > pre-
> > > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> > >
> > > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be
> pre-
> > > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an
> > ODU2
> > > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting
> for
> > > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted
> independently
> > > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
> >
> > JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> > available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK
> (=3D
> > ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> > intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> > wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
> >
> > >
> > > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and
> maybe
> > > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > > mechanism makes
> > > some difference.
> >
> > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
> >
> > >
> > > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> > bandwidth
> > > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because
> some
> > > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no
> > more
> > > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
> >
> > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> > intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS
> of
> > > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs
> it
> > > has
> > > > the following characteristics:
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first
> mechanism
> > > is
> > > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> > > mean
> > > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
> LSP).
> > > >
> > > > Only the second is completely new.
> > >
> > > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work
> required
> > to
> > > support them both from an architecture and development perspective
> is
> > > under discussion
> > >
> > > [[PG]]
> > > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single
> thing
> > > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> > otherwise.
> > > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
> >
> > JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling
> > the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are
> also
> > the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> > allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> > this.
> >
> > We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to
> > indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching
> stage
> > LSP.
> >
> > And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need
> > to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> > message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
> >
> > >
> > > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> > > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to
> the
> > > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> > > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which
> the
> > > LSP failed.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say
> that
> > > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages
> traverse
> > > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that
> a
> > > node
> > > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> > implementation
> > > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem
> internally,
> > > but it may also not happen.
> > > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> > > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> > method
> > > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
> >
> > JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> > transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> > visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> > service LSPs have failed.
> >
> > Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand
> this
> > > > construct.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they
> work
> > > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> > changes
> > > > conceptually for OTN.
> > >
> > > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> > the
> > > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> > > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> > intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > > methods produce identical results
> > >
> > >
> > > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2,
> VC3
> > > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> > > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with
> SDH
> > as
> > > a whole).
> >
> > JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> > 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing
> hierarchical
> > LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> > hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> > congruent.
> >
> > It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few
> > concerns about it.
> >
> > > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> > dependency
> > > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> > > stage LSPs
> > >
> > > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied
> then
> > > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-
> LSPs
> > > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied
> in
> > > any condition.
> >
> > JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> > multi-stage labels.

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  8 08:06:26 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:06:06 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Pietro,

I don't think you responded to my question which was regarding a 'specific =
problem' that you raised in your email to me, below.

Wrt to point you raised in your reply, an intermediate switching stage LSP =
is bound to the ODUk transport LSP in which it was established.  I don't se=
e how it can be independently re-routed.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:55 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
>
> Pietro,
>
> Just to be clear, are we discussing the case of a stacked hierarchical
> LSP in which an intermediate switching stage LSP has failed at one of
> its endpoints?
>
> How does re-signaling that LSP between the two endpoints of the ODUk
> transport LSP help the endpoint at which the intermediate switching
> stage LSP has failed to re-establish that LSP?
>
> You have asserted that re-signaling helps and I just do not see how;
> the re-routing that you mention in your P.S. is strictly internal to
> node containing the endpoint of the failed intermediate switching stage
> LSP and that node does not require re-signaling from the other endpoint
> in order to internally re-route the failed LSP.
>
> [[PG]] I am speaking about a functionality: grooming, not about a
> specific case. When grooming traffic, the ODU used for grooming has to
> be rerouted.
> It is not important if the ODU containing groomed traffic has been
> created single hop or not.
> An operator may be willing to protect this grooming ODU (incidentally
> created single hop)via for instance a 1+1 protection (implies internal
> protection) and in addition use also restoration in order to survive to
> a higher number of faults.
>
> With multi stage label approach  how it is possible to do this
> functionality ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 6:22 AM
> > To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> >
> > John,
> > I am sorry and I am really frustrated by the fact that I cannot find
> a
> > way to make you understand that having the possibility to restore via
> > GMPLS an intermediate layer without re-signaling all clients is a OTN
> > networks requirement. Not fulfilling it is unacceptable because
> forces
> > operators to
> > perform choices they may not want to do.
> >
> > The multi-stage label solution, while being consistent, does not
> solve
> > this specific problem, because it requires that intermediate stages
> are
> > not visible at all, while instead the requirement for OTN networks is
> > that intermediate stages are visible and fully manageable.
> >
> > Let me say that all of us would like to have just one mechanism,
> > unfortunately in reality we cannot.
> >
> > Pietro
> >
> > P.S.
> > SNIP "You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails
> at
> > one of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that
> > endpoint's re-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I
> > don't believe this makes any sense."
> >
> > John, I will try to explain: A transport network element is built as
> a
> > set of matrixes (one per layer), this means that each layer is cross
> > connectable in an independent way. So each intermediate layer behaves
> > exactly as the ODUj. Consequence: Intermediate stages can be
> rerouted.
> > Grooming works in this way, just to make a practical example.
> >
> > Grooming is usual practice in transport networks.
> >
> > Pietro
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> That's
> > relativity.
> > (A. Einstein)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > Sent: venerd=EC 8 luglio 2011 15.04
> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Pietro,
> >
> > I actually had a faint hope that you would tell me something I did
> not
> > already know.
> >
> > You assert that when an intermediate switching stage LSP fails at one
> > of its endpoints, re-signaling that LSP will facilitate that
> endpoint's
> > re-establishment of that LSP.  You haven't said how and I don't
> believe
> > this makes any sense.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > > [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:08 AM
> > > To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> > > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >
> > > Hello John.
> > >
> > > SNIP:
> > >
> > > " JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you
> mean
> > by
> > > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused."
> > >
> > > In transport, we distinguish between protection and restoration.
> > > Protection is always based on data-plane mechanisms. An example is
> > 1+1
> > > protection where CP signals protection set-up and changes of states
> > > but the switch is usually performed by dataplane depending from
> OAM.
> > >
> > > For LSP reroute, either pre-computed or on the fly when detecting
> an
> > > alarm.
> > > LSP reroute is always performed via GMPLS signaling.
> > >
> > > Note that the two mechanisms (protection and restoration) can be
> > > combined together in order to achieve speed (from protection) and
> > > efficiency in resource allocation (from restoration).
> > > You can find some restoration schemas in RFC 4427.
> > > The analysis of mechanisms is in RFC 4428.
> > > These originated RFC 4872 and RFC 4873.
> > > Note that GMPLS restoration is in field in our transport networks
> > since
> > > at least 10 years even if the RFCs are more recent.
> > >
> > > How is this connected to the two mechanism:
> > >
> > > In the case of all H-LSP the intermediate stages have associated an
> > LSP
> > > and a logical interface. It is possible to re-route the
> intermediate
> > > LSPs without re-signaling ODUjs.
> > > This feature MUST be supported in OTN networks as explicitly
> allowed
> > by
> > > OTN architecture.
> > >
> > > In the case of multi-stage label only ODUj can be rerouted.
> > >
> > > So when using one mechanism or the other the operator is making a
> > > choice.
> > >
> > > The first mechanism has to be used if the intermediate stage has to
> > be
> > > restored. The fact that in some case the intermediate stage is
> single
> > > hop
> > > is not meaningful.
> > > Note that the multi-stage label mechanism also prevents setting up
> > 1+1
> > > protections on intermediate stages via control plane.
> > >
> > > Control plane simply cannot take the responsibility to operate such
> > > choices.
> > >
> > > Hope this clarifies.
> > >
> > > Pietro
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an
> hour.
> > > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> > That's
> > > relativity.
> > > (A. Einstein)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> > > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> > > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >
> > > Snipped, comments inline.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello John,
> > > >
> > > > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW
> flexibility
> > > an
> > > > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > > > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently
> from
> > > the
> > > > way
> > > > in which an LSP is signaled.
> > > >
> > > > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3
> intermediate
> > > > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are
> > high.
> > >
> > > JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> > > switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path
> > messages
> > > (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
> > >
> > > > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> > > functionalities
> > > > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > > > labels.
> > > > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make
> use
> > > of
> > > > multi-stage label.
> > > >
> > >
> > > JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean
> by
> > > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> > > have
> > > > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement
> > it
> > > > until
> > > > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
> > >
> > > JD:  My preference has always been one method.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical
> > ODU2
> > > > LSP
> > > > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > > > endpoints
> > > > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > > > hierarchical
> > > > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of
> an
> > > ODU1
> > > > > LSP.
> > > > >
> > > > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and
> > restoration
> > > > are
> > > > > impacting on it.
> > > >
> > > > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate
> > stages
> > > > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used
> > and
> > > > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > > > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
> > >
> > > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per
> > Section
> > > 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> > > the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of
> the
> > > ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical
> ODUk
> > > transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > > > stages
> > > > > ?
> > > >
> > > > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > > > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > > > switching stage LSPs.
> > > >
> > > > This is actually an important differentiator between the two
> > methods.
> > > > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > > > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the
> set-
> > up
> > > > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage
> > LSPs
> > > as
> > > > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > > > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be
> analyzed
> > > and
> > > > addressed.
> > > >
> > > > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when
> > you
> > > > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical
> > LSPs
> > > > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]]
> > > > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > > > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> > > intermediate
> > > > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > > > resources
> > > > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the
> intermediate
> > > > stage.
> > > > This operation is made once and for all.
> > > >
> > > > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply
> have
> > > to
> > > > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so
> that
> > > high
> > > > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
> > >
> > > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate
> > stages
> > > > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the
> clients
> > > and
> > > > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > > > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if
> the
> > > > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with
> a
> > > > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> > > priority
> > > > then
> > > > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced
> that
> > > > it is something easy to control.
> > >
> > > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> > > work.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> > > pre-
> > > > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> > > >
> > > > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be
> > pre-
> > > > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > > > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring
> an
> > > ODU2
> > > > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting
> > for
> > > > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted
> > independently
> > > > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
> > >
> > > JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> > > available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying
> ODUK
> > (=3D
> > > ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> > > intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> > > wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and
> > maybe
> > > > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > > > mechanism makes
> > > > some difference.
> > >
> > > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> > > bandwidth
> > > > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > > > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because
> > some
> > > > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are
> no
> > > more
> > > > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
> > >
> > > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> > > intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS
> > of
> > > > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer
> LSPs
> > it
> > > > has
> > > > > the following characteristics:
> > > > >
> > > > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first
> > mechanism
> > > > is
> > > > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support
> (I
> > > > mean
> > > > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
> > LSP).
> > > > >
> > > > > Only the second is completely new.
> > > >
> > > > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work
> > required
> > > to
> > > > support them both from an architecture and development
> perspective
> > is
> > > > under discussion
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]]
> > > > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single
> > thing
> > > > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> > > otherwise.
> > > > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > > > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
> > >
> > > JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in
> signaling
> > > the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are
> > also
> > > the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> > > allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> > > this.
> > >
> > > We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects
> to
> > > indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching
> > stage
> > > LSP.
> > >
> > > And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also
> need
> > > to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> > > message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed
> intermediate
> > > > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to
> > the
> > > > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially
> establish
> > > > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which
> > the
> > > > LSP failed.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say
> > that
> > > > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages
> > traverse
> > > > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact
> that
> > a
> > > > node
> > > > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> > > implementation
> > > > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem
> > internally,
> > > > but it may also not happen.
> > > > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore
> intermediate
> > > > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> > > method
> > > > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
> > >
> > > JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> > > transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> > > visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> > > service LSPs have failed.
> > >
> > > Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand
> > this
> > > > > construct.
> > > > >
> > > > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they
> > work
> > > > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> > > changes
> > > > > conceptually for OTN.
> > > >
> > > > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of
> how
> > > the
> > > > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the
> network
> > > > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> > > intermediate
> > > > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > > > methods produce identical results
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2,
> > VC3
> > > > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > > > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are
> also
> > > > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with
> > SDH
> > > as
> > > > a whole).
> > >
> > > JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> > > 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing
> > hierarchical
> > > LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> > > hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> > > congruent.
> > >
> > > It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a
> few
> > > concerns about it.
> > >
> > > > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> > > dependency
> > > > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate
> switching
> > > > stage LSPs
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied
> > then
> > > > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-
> > LSPs
> > > > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied
> > in
> > > > any condition.
> > >
> > > JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> > > multi-stage labels.

From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com  Fri Jul  8 08:28:57 2011
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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 10:28:38 -0500
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John and Pietro,

I'm not certain I understand the concept of the lower-layer ODU inheriting =
the holding priority of the service LSP.  Let me start with some clarifying=
 questions:

1. Holding priority is used when performing CAC to determine if an new LSP =
should preempt an existing LSP, correct?
2. When preemption occurs, the existing LSP is released (graceful or otherw=
ise) by the node where the preemption occurs.  This would release the servi=
ce ODU and lower-layer ODU, correct?
3. Two different service LSPs may be signaled with different holding priori=
ties but use the same lower-layer ODU to carry the service LSP, correct?

Now, in the scenario where an lower-layer ODU data-plane link connection ha=
s been established to support two different service LSPs and the service LS=
Ps have different holding priorities, what would be the preemption policy f=
or the lower layer ODU?

A more concrete example:

  ---A---B---

AB =3D ODU2 link without direct ODU0 support

1) On AB, LSP1 requests an ODU0 with holding priority =3D 5.  This is satis=
fied by creating an ODU1 link-connection on the ODU2.  My interpretation of=
 your statement is the holding priority of the ODU1 would be 5.  LSP1 doesn=
't completely allocate the ODU1, leaving an ODU0 available.
2) On AB, three LSPs (LSP2, LSP3, LSP4) request additional ODU1s, filling u=
p the ODU2.  These LSPs are also signaled with holding priority=3D3.
3) On AB, LSP5 requests an ODU0.  LSP5 is signaled with holding priority =
=3D 3.

Will LSP5 be:
 a) admitted using the spare ODU0 in the ODU1 link-connection created by LS=
P1?
 b) admitted preempting LSP1?
 c) refused since an ODU1 created by LSP1 is for priority =3D 5?

If it is admitted On AB, what happens when LSP6 requests on AB an ODU1 with=
 holding priority =3D 4?

Thanks,

Jonathan Sadler

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of G=
RANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:04 AM
To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Hello John

Snip: " Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section 6=
.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email, the intermediate switc=
hing stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj service LSP.  More imp=
ortantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk transport LSP also inherits the =
ODUj holding priority."

I did not remember that section. The bandwidth accounting point is closed.

Pietro

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)


-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Snipped, comments inline.

Sent from my iPhone


> Hello John,
>
> Point by point in line with technical consideration.
>
> Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility an
> operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from the
> way
> in which an LSP is signaled.
>
> When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.

JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate switchi=
ng stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages (method 1)=
 or with multi-stage labels (method 2)

> Moreover, the operator will not have available certain functionalities
> for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> labels.
> So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use of
> multi-stage label.
>

JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by 'rest=
oration' in the above text and how you think it will be accomplished using =
GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this multiple times and I think ei=
ther one or both of us is confused.

>
> This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to have
> multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> until
> it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)

JD:  My preference has always been one method.

> >
> > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> LSP
> > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> endpoints
> > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> hierarchical
> > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an ODU1
> > LSP.
> >
> > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> are
> > impacting on it.
>
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
>
> [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.

JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section 6.3 =
of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj =
service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk transport =
LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.

>
> > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> stages
> > ?
>
> JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> switching stage LSPs.
>
> This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs as
> well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed and
> addressed.
>
> This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
>
> [[PG]]
> When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the intermediate
> layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> resources
> of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> stage.
> This operation is made once and for all.
>
> So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have to
> subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that high
> priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.

>
> With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients and
> the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in priority
> then
> indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> it is something easy to control.

JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs work.

>
>
>
> > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be pre-
> > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
>
> JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
>
> [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an ODU2
> LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.

JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth available fo=
r the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=3D ODU3) trans=
port LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the intermediate switching=
 stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally wrote, above, it is the ODUj =
LSPs that would be pre-empted.

>
> This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> mechanism makes
> some difference.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.

>
> Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic bandwidth
> accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no more
> pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.

JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise intermediat=
e switching stage bandwidth.

>
> >
> > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> has
> > the following characteristics:
> >
> > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> is
> > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> mean
> > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> >
> > Only the second is completely new.
>
> JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required to
> support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> under discussion
>
> [[PG]]
> The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say otherwise.
> In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.

JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling the en=
dpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also the addres=
ses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is allowed in RFC 610=
7, I am not sure that implementations would allow this.

We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to indic=
ate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage LSP.

And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need to in=
dicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling message for =
an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.

>
> Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> LSP failed.
>
> [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> node
> is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is implementation
> dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> but it may also not happen.
> Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which method
> use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.

JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it transparently =
or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally visible.  If it can't, =
it should indicate that the affected ODUJ service LSPs have failed.

Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.

>
> >
> > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > construct.
> >
> > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing changes
> > conceptually for OTN.
>
> JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how the
> intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> management plane would neither understand nor care how the intermediate
> switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> methods produce identical results
>
>
> [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH as
> a whole).

JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a 'stacked h=
ierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical LSP (the ODUk =
transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate switching stage LSPs, =
where the endpoints of both the containing hierarchical LSP and the interme=
diate switching stage LSPs are congruent.

It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few concer=
ns about it.

> JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any dependency
> in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> stage LSPs
>
> [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> any condition.

JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to multi-sta=
ge labels.
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  8 09:03:02 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:59:42 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Jonathan,

Comments inline.

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:29 AM
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hi John and Pietro,
>
> I'm not certain I understand the concept of the lower-layer ODU
> inheriting the holding priority of the service LSP.

JD:

"6.3.  FA-LSP Holding Priority

   The value of the holding priority of an FA-LSP must be the minimum of
   the configured holding priority of the FA-LSP and the holding
   priorities of the LSPs tunneling through the FA-LSP (note that
   smaller priority values denote higher priority).  Thus, if an LSP of
   higher priority than the FA-LSP tunnels through the FA-LSP, the FA-
   LSP is itself promoted to the higher priority.  However, if the
   tunneled LSP is torn down, the FA-LSP need not drop its priority to
   its old value right away; it may be advisable to apply hysteresis in
   this case.

   If the holding priority of an FA-LSP is configured, this document
   restricts it to 0."


> Let me start with
> some clarifying questions:
>
> 1. Holding priority is used when performing CAC to determine if an new
> LSP should preempt an existing LSP, correct?

JD:  Correct

> 2. When preemption occurs, the existing LSP is released (graceful or
> otherwise) by the node where the preemption occurs.  This would release
> the service ODU and lower-layer ODU, correct?

JD:  The lower layer ODU would not necessarily be released

> 3. Two different service LSPs may be signaled with different holding
> priorities but use the same lower-layer ODU to carry the service LSP,
> correct?

JD:  Correct

>
> Now, in the scenario where an lower-layer ODU data-plane link
> connection has been established to support two different service LSPs
> and the service LSPs have different holding priorities, what would be
> the preemption policy for the lower layer ODU?
>
> A more concrete example:
>
>   ---A---B---
>
> AB =3D ODU2 link without direct ODU0 support
>
> 1) On AB, LSP1 requests an ODU0 with holding priority =3D 5.  This is
> satisfied by creating an ODU1 link-connection on the ODU2.  My
> interpretation of your statement is the holding priority of the ODU1
> would be 5.  LSP1 doesn't completely allocate the ODU1, leaving an ODU0
> available.

JD:  Let's call this ODU1 LSP0

> 2) On AB, three LSPs (LSP2, LSP3, LSP4) request additional ODU1s,
> filling up the ODU2.  These LSPs are also signaled with holding
> priority=3D3.

JD:  So we have four ODU1s, LSP0 at priority 5, and LSP2, 3, & 4 at priorit=
y 3

> 3) On AB, LSP5 requests an ODU0.  LSP5 is signaled with holding
> priority =3D 3.
>
> Will LSP5 be:
>  a) admitted using the spare ODU0 in the ODU1 link-connection created
> by LSP1?
>  b) admitted preempting LSP1?
>  c) refused since an ODU1 created by LSP1 is for priority =3D 5?

JD:  LSP5 can be signaled in LSP0, 2, 3, or 4.  If it is signaled in LSP0, =
LSP1 would not be pre-empted since there is capacity for LSP5 within it, an=
d LSP0's priority jumps to 3

>
> If it is admitted On AB, what happens when LSP6 requests on AB an ODU1
> with holding priority =3D 4?

JD: Which of the four ODU1 LSPs is specified in the signaling of LSP6?

>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan Sadler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:04 AM
> To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Hello John
>
> Snip: " Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per
> Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email, the
> intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the ODUj
> service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority."
>
> I did not remember that section. The bandwidth accounting point is
> closed.
>
> Pietro
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's
> relativity.
> (A. Einstein)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Snipped, comments inline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > Hello John,
> >
> > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> >
> > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility
> an
> > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from
> the
> > way
> > in which an LSP is signaled.
> >
> > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are high.
>
> JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path messages
> (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
>
> > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> functionalities
> > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > labels.
> > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use
> of
> > multi-stage label.
> >
>
> JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
>
> >
> > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> have
> > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement it
> > until
> > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
>
> JD:  My preference has always been one method.
>
> > >
> > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical ODU2
> > LSP
> > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > endpoints
> > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > hierarchical
> > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an
> ODU1
> > > LSP.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and restoration
> > are
> > > impacting on it.
> >
> > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> >
> > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate stages
> > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used and
> > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
>
> JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per Section
> 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
>
> >
> > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > stages
> > > ?
> >
> > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs.
> >
> > This is actually an important differentiator between the two methods.
> > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-up
> > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage LSPs
> as
> > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed
> and
> > addressed.
> >
> > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when you
> > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical LSPs
> > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> >
> > [[PG]]
> > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> intermediate
> > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > resources
> > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> > stage.
> > This operation is made once and for all.
> >
> > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have
> to
> > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that
> high
> > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
>
> JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
>
> >
> > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate stages
> > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients
> and
> > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> priority
> > then
> > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> > it is something easy to control.
>
> JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> work.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> pre-
> > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> >
> > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-
> > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> >
> > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an
> ODU2
> > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting for
> > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted independently
> > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
>
> JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK (=
=3D
> ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
>
> >
> > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and maybe
> > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > mechanism makes
> > some difference.
>
> JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
>
> >
> > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> bandwidth
> > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because some
> > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no
> more
> > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
>
> JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
>
> >
> > >
> > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS of
> > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs it
> > has
> > > the following characteristics:
> > >
> > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first mechanism
> > is
> > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> > mean
> > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the LSP).
> > >
> > > Only the second is completely new.
> >
> > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work required
> to
> > support them both from an architecture and development perspective is
> > under discussion
> >
> > [[PG]]
> > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single thing
> > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> otherwise.
> > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
>
> JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling
> the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are also
> the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> this.
>
> We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to
> indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching stage
> LSP.
>
> And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need
> to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
>
> >
> > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to the
> > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which the
> > LSP failed.
> >
> > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say that
> > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages traverse
> > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that a
> > node
> > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> implementation
> > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem internally,
> > but it may also not happen.
> > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> method
> > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
>
> JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> service LSPs have failed.
>
> Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
>
> >
> > >
> > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand this
> > > construct.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they work
> > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> changes
> > > conceptually for OTN.
> >
> > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> the
> > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > methods produce identical results
> >
> >
> > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2, VC3
> > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with SDH
> as
> > a whole).
>
> JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing hierarchical
> LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> congruent.
>
> It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few
> concerns about it.
>
> > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> dependency
> > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> > stage LSPs
> >
> > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied then
> > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-LSPs
> > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied in
> > any condition.
>
> JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> multi-stage labels.
> _______________________________________________
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From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Fri Jul  8 09:15:58 2011
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
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Hi Cyril, see comments below.
Cheers
Greg
On 7/8/2011 6:24 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
> Hi CCAMPers, Greg,
>
> Thanks greg for your point of view, this can help clarifying some points.
> Please find below clarifications on the point you raised.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of ext Greg Bernstein
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 4:50 PM
>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR:
>> New Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
>>
>> Hi CCAMPers, none of the changes to the current WSON WG drafts listed
>> below are necessary to achieve the stated goals, i.e., the current
>> mechanisms suffice please see details below. We can offer an offline
>> tutorial session to interested parties in Quebec city as it seems
>> there is a lack of understanding of (a) the current WSON drafts, and
>> (b) GMPLS protocols in general.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Greg
>>
>> On 7/4/2011 8:02 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>> Hello CCAMPer's,
>>>
>>> Following Lou's suggestion, this email intends to summarize the main
>>> changes introduced by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, viewed from
>>> the information model, we end-up with 3 of them:
>>>       0. IMPORTANT REMINDER OF ONE OF THE PIECES THAT WAS NOT CHANGED:
>>> Resource block = group of devices with same features and same
>>> connectivity constraints.
>>>
>>>       1. Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model,
>>> which allows the definition of several resource entites per node
>>> independantly floodable.
>>> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup
>>> or tear down). (Resource Pool = group of resource blocks with same
>>> connectivity constraints)
>> -->  There is already a standard mechanism in OSPF-TE for achieving
>> -->  this
>> (multiple LSA instances) which is already in common use in MPLS and
>> GMPLS so this change is unneeded. The current WSON encoding model
>> includes very fine granularity in sub-TLVs hence this change would not
>> achieve the stated "MOTIVATION" any better than the current approach.
> The change proposed by draft-peloso does mandate (implicitly, this should
> be definitely changed) to have one LSA instance per top level TLV.
--> Hmm, other GMPLS specifications go the other way and restrict the 
number of top level TLVs (usually one) per LSA.
This top level TLV is viewed as a container for a given type of 
information. If we have more than one "item" of information of a 
particular type you have the option of putting them in separate LSA 
instances. All the LSA instances together form the link state database 
and are used in path computation.  OSPF's reliable flooding mechanism 
will make sure the information gets there.  Note, that unlike the IP 
routing case where slightly out of date information can cause 
loops/blackholes, in the GMPLS case at worse the signaling request will 
fail somewhere along the path selected.
> The solution of current WG-drafts is less explicit regarding how many
> TLVs should/may be flooded.
--> This is implementation and situation specific.
> Would you then elaborate with text in the drafts giving recommendations
>   on how to process different LSA instances referring to same sub-TLVs in
> the wson specific case.
--> We can add informative text to further explain the process. We'll 
bring in some proposed text to Quebec City.
> The processing is not explicitly stated, according
> to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-11, there is one ResourcePool per node and
> draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-04 state that this
> ResourcePool is contained in the "Optical Node Property TLV".
>
> So according to the draft a LSP setup would impact the following sub-TLVs :
>    - "Resource Pool State Sub-TLV" : number of available device is changed
>    - "Block Shared Access Wavelength Availability Sub-TLV " is also updated
>
> Should this be new instances or reuse existing instances? How to merge the information?
--> Think of the Optical Node Property TLV as the master container that 
the OSPF working group has allocated to us. They have very limited "code 
space" and hence want us to use all existing mechanisms rather than 
asking them for more top level TLVs. Note all of GMPLS uses just one 
type of LSA.
We would not want to mix large amounts of static information (pool 
accessibility) and dynamic information (pool state or shared access 
state) in the same LSA instance.  So we could generally do something 
like the following schematic:
             LSA instance #1{ Node_Prop_TLV[Pools accessibility]}
             LSA instance #2{ Node_Prop_TLV[Resource info]}
             LSA instance #3{ Node_Prop_TLV[Pools accessibility]}
             LSA instance #4{ Node_Prop_TLV[Shared wave state]}

A similar process can be used with link information where the top level 
container was defined way back in early MPLS days.
>
>>>       2. Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity
>>> in order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
>>> links and the resource pools.
>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for
>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit the
>>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current extensions
>>> (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs).
>>>
>> -->  This change mixes information from "general constraints" with "wson
>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the
>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
>> hence this change is unnecessary.
> My co-authors and myself are aware of your interpretation of this solution
> as being a mixing of generic and wson specific extensions.
> Actually we are not sharing this interpretation, we consider this solution
> as complying with the decision you're refering too.
> The resulting connectivity matrix does not contains any FEC, wavelength,
> modulation format information.
> This kind of information is still separated in different elements.
> Hence what you're interpreting as a mixing of wson and generic extensions
> is nothing but the use in a generic element of unnumbered IDs.
> By nature, all of these unnumbered IDs being defined in different LSAs,
> as was already planned current WG drafts.
> Considering that depending on the type of LSA which define these IDs,
> the WG decision is betrayed or not is a position I let you advocate.
--> But there is nothing to be gained from these changes spacewise. As 
someone who has been working on the drafts since 2007 we originally 
separated the information, then combined the information, then separated 
the information based on the WG decision. Since this change doesn't fix 
anything, at this point we should leave it as it is.
>
>>>       3. Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to keep
>>> only resource/device description (moved the number of devices away).
>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same
>>> devices) blocks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of
>>> information. b/ to create an independent flooding entity holding all
>>> the resource descriptions (which are static), the decreasing the size
>>> of updated information.
>> -->  This change (a) does not result in any size savings, and (b) is not
>> necessary to "to create an independent flooding entity holding all the
>> resource descriptions".  Resource block information is already a
>> separate sub-TLV and the current resource block set mechanism provides
>> a highly efficient method to indicate which resources blocks are
>> associated with a particular type of resource.
>>
> I consider the contradiction to your statement is in the example you've been
> providing in the email: "Current WSON encodings...".
> In this example there are 200 wavelength converters of 10 different types,
> spread over 4 physical pools/WC group.
> Following the Resource Block definition, that gives 40 of those each having
> a priori different number of wavelength converters.
> So, a priori 40 different Resource Block Informations TLVs are needed,
> which change significantly the size of the LSA.
--> Hmm, this is where we seem to differ. The example shows that we have 
one information encoding for each type of resource which gives 10 and 
not 40.  The Resource Block Info sub-TLV begins with an RB Set Field 
which specifies in compact form all the resource blocks that are of this 
particular type. This was changed in the transition from the 09 to the 
10 (published 3/14/2011). Hence I guess the Peloso-03 analysis was based 
on the old version and is no longer applicable.

--> only need one of these per type of resource:

     0                   1                   2                   3
     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                     RB Set Field                              |
    :         List of resource WC IDs that are of this type         |
    |         Length in words = 1 + ceil{(Num WC total)/(2*NT)}     |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |0|0|                      Reserved                             |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |           Input Modulation Type List Sub-Sub-TLV              |
    :        (The receivers can only process NRZ)                   :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |           Input FEC Type List Sub-Sub-TLV                     |
    :           (Only Standard SDH and G.709 FECs)                  :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Input Client Signal Type Sub-TLV                      |
    :              (GPIDs for SDH and G.709)                        :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Input Bit Rate Range List  Sub-Sub-TLV                |
    :                          (2.5Gbps, 10Gbps)                    :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Processing Capabilities List Sub-Sub-TLV              |
    :                    Fixed (non optional) 3R regeneration       :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Output Modulation Type List Sub-Sub-TLV               |
    :                          NRZ                                  :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Output FEC Type List Sub-Sub-TLV                      |
    :                 Standard SDH, G.709 FECs                      :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

> By  giving-up the definition of Resource Block with the max-number, it creates
> then 200 of those (one per wavelength converter).
> This results in associating each individual wavelength converter to a one of the
> 10 different Resource Block Information TLV created.
> Applying our solution, demands to determine 40 Resource Block IDs, then to define
> 10 different Resource Description TLV, associated each with 4 of the preceding Resource Block IDs.
>
> Is this analysis correct, is it the reason why the max-number of resources
> was not included in your example or is there another reason?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Cyril, Giovanni, Julien and Pierre
>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Cyril, Giovanni, Julien and Pierre
>>>
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la
>> part
>>> de Lou Berger Envoyé : mardi 28 juin 2011 16:57 À : Leeyoung;
>>> draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo@tools.ietf.org
>>> Cc : ccamp@ietf.org
>>> Objet : [CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward (Was Re: TR: New
>>> Version Notification fordraft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-03.txt)
>>>
>> --
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul  8 09:16:58 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:13:40 -0700
Thread-Topic: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Jonathan,

Oops, I misread your last question.  If LSP5 was signaled in LSP0, then LSP=
0's priority is 3 and LSP 6 would be rejected. If LSP5 was signaled in LSP =
2, 3, or 4, then LSP0's priority is 5 and LSP6 would pre-empt it.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:00 AM
> To: 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO);
> 'CCAMP'
> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Comments inline.
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:29 AM
> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Hi John and Pietro,
> >
> > I'm not certain I understand the concept of the lower-layer ODU
> > inheriting the holding priority of the service LSP.
>
> JD:
>
> "6.3.  FA-LSP Holding Priority
>
>    The value of the holding priority of an FA-LSP must be the minimum
> of
>    the configured holding priority of the FA-LSP and the holding
>    priorities of the LSPs tunneling through the FA-LSP (note that
>    smaller priority values denote higher priority).  Thus, if an LSP of
>    higher priority than the FA-LSP tunnels through the FA-LSP, the FA-
>    LSP is itself promoted to the higher priority.  However, if the
>    tunneled LSP is torn down, the FA-LSP need not drop its priority to
>    its old value right away; it may be advisable to apply hysteresis in
>    this case.
>
>    If the holding priority of an FA-LSP is configured, this document
>    restricts it to 0."
>
>
> > Let me start with
> > some clarifying questions:
> >
> > 1. Holding priority is used when performing CAC to determine if an
> new
> > LSP should preempt an existing LSP, correct?
>
> JD:  Correct
>
> > 2. When preemption occurs, the existing LSP is released (graceful or
> > otherwise) by the node where the preemption occurs.  This would
> release
> > the service ODU and lower-layer ODU, correct?
>
> JD:  The lower layer ODU would not necessarily be released
>
> > 3. Two different service LSPs may be signaled with different holding
> > priorities but use the same lower-layer ODU to carry the service LSP,
> > correct?
>
> JD:  Correct
>
> >
> > Now, in the scenario where an lower-layer ODU data-plane link
> > connection has been established to support two different service LSPs
> > and the service LSPs have different holding priorities, what would be
> > the preemption policy for the lower layer ODU?
> >
> > A more concrete example:
> >
> >   ---A---B---
> >
> > AB =3D ODU2 link without direct ODU0 support
> >
> > 1) On AB, LSP1 requests an ODU0 with holding priority =3D 5.  This is
> > satisfied by creating an ODU1 link-connection on the ODU2.  My
> > interpretation of your statement is the holding priority of the ODU1
> > would be 5.  LSP1 doesn't completely allocate the ODU1, leaving an
> ODU0
> > available.
>
> JD:  Let's call this ODU1 LSP0
>
> > 2) On AB, three LSPs (LSP2, LSP3, LSP4) request additional ODU1s,
> > filling up the ODU2.  These LSPs are also signaled with holding
> > priority=3D3.
>
> JD:  So we have four ODU1s, LSP0 at priority 5, and LSP2, 3, & 4 at
> priority 3
>
> > 3) On AB, LSP5 requests an ODU0.  LSP5 is signaled with holding
> > priority =3D 3.
> >
> > Will LSP5 be:
> >  a) admitted using the spare ODU0 in the ODU1 link-connection created
> > by LSP1?
> >  b) admitted preempting LSP1?
> >  c) refused since an ODU1 created by LSP1 is for priority =3D 5?
>
> JD:  LSP5 can be signaled in LSP0, 2, 3, or 4.  If it is signaled in
> LSP0, LSP1 would not be pre-empted since there is capacity for LSP5
> within it, and LSP0's priority jumps to 3
>
> >
> > If it is admitted On AB, what happens when LSP6 requests on AB an
> ODU1
> > with holding priority =3D 4?
>
> JD: Which of the four ODU1 LSPs is specified in the signaling of LSP6?
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jonathan Sadler
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:04 AM
> > To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Hello John
> >
> > Snip: " Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per
> > Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email, the
> > intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> ODUj
> > service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> > transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority."
> >
> > I did not remember that section. The bandwidth accounting point is
> > closed.
> >
> > Pietro
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
> > Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute.
> That's
> > relativity.
> > (A. Einstein)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > Sent: gioved=EC 7 luglio 2011 21.31
> > To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'CCAMP'
> > Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> > Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > Hello John,
> > >
> > > Point by point in line with technical consideration.
> > >
> > > Personally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility
> > an
> > > operator will leave to CP the freedom to choose which
> > > is the intermediate stage to be allocated. This independently from
> > the
> > > way
> > > in which an LSP is signaled.
> > >
> > > When there is a choice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate
> > > stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are
> high.
> >
> > JD:  The capabilities are exactly the same whether the intermediate
> > switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path
> messages
> > (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (method 2)
> >
> > > Moreover, the operator will not have available certain
> > functionalities
> > > for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when using multi-stage
> > > labels.
> > > So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use
> > of
> > > multi-stage label.
> > >
> >
> > JD:  Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by
> > 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be
> > accomplished using GMPLS signaling?  We have gone around on this
> > multiple times and I think either one or both of us is confused.
> >
> > >
> > > This considered, there is no reason to force an implementation to
> > have
> > > multi-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement
> it
> > > until
> > > it has been verified that there is a real scaling problem)
> >
> > JD:  My preference has always been one method.
> >
> > > >
> > > > The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical
> ODU2
> > > LSP
> > > > to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the
> > > endpoints
> > > > of the containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP.  This allows the
> > > hierarchical
> > > > ODU2 LSP to be implicitly established during the signaling of an
> > ODU1
> > > > LSP.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot be
> > > > completely transparent because bandwidth accounting and
> restoration
> > > are
> > > > impacting on it.
> > >
> > > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method
> > >
> > > [[PG]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate
> stages
> > > depends from the priority of ODUj if multi-stage labels are used
> and
> > > the effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .
> > > It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.
> >
> > JD:  Bandwidth accounting is the same with either method.  Per
> Section
> > 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,
> > the intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the
> > ODUj service LSP.  More importantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk
> > transport LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.
> >
> > >
> > > > 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the intermediate
> > > stages
> > > > ?
> > >
> > > JD:  A reasonable default would be to use the set-up and holding
> > > priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs.
> > >
> > > This is actually an important differentiator between the two
> methods.
> > > The sequential establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs
> > > introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-
> up
> > > and holding priorities between the intermediate switching stage
> LSPs
> > as
> > > well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSPs they are supporting.
> > > These error cases and their ramifications would need to be analyzed
> > and
> > > addressed.
> > >
> > > This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking when
> you
> > > say there is no work to be done to support cascaded hierarchical
> LSPs
> > > using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .
> > >
> > > [[PG]]
> > > When intermediate stages are explicitly signaled, the priority
> > > of ALL upper layers is dependent from the priority of the
> > intermediate
> > > layers. This is reflected in bandwidth accounting reducing the
> > > resources
> > > of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the intermediate
> > > stage.
> > > This operation is made once and for all.
> > >
> > > So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we simply have
> > to
> > > subtract from upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that
> > high
> > > priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs.
> >
> > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.
> >
> > >
> > > With multi-stage label, bandwidth accounting for intermediate
> stages
> > > changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients
> > and
> > > the algorithm is not very clear to me.
> > > For instance, why should we accept an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the
> > > intermediate stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a
> > > lower priority ?  If we allow the intermediate stage change in
> > priority
> > > then
> > > indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convinced that
> > > it is something easy to control.
> >
> > JD:  Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, this is the way hierarchical LSPs
> > work.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is motivated by the fact that intermediate stages could be
> > pre-
> > > > empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be restored).
> > >
> > > JD:  I would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be
> pre-
> > > empted, followed by my reply to 1), above
> > >
> > > [[PG]] Let me explain better what I intended.
> > > Take the usual example of ODU1-ODU2-ODU3  when we are restoring an
> > ODU2
> > > LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandwidth accounting
> for
> > > ODU 2. If the priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted
> independently
> > > from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or not.
> >
> > JD:  For your example, above, we would advertise the bandwidth
> > available for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK
> (=3D
> > ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth.  We would not be advertising the
> > intermediate switching stage (=3D ODU2) bandwidth.  As I originally
> > wrote, above, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.
> >
> > >
> > > This has as side effect that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and
> maybe
> > > are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounting
> > > mechanism makes
> > > some difference.
> >
> > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206.
> >
> > >
> > > Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that the dynamic
> > bandwidth
> > > accounting of intermediate stages might cause a higher
> > > number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because
> some
> > > intermediate stages that are believed pre-emptable suddenly are no
> > more
> > > pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.
> >
> > JD:  See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, and again, we don't advertise
> > intermediate switching stage bandwidth.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This type of multi-layer hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS
> of
> > > > which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-layer LSPs
> it
> > > has
> > > > the following characteristics:
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] John, this is one point of disagreement. The first
> mechanism
> > > is
> > > > just the currently standardized H-LSP with FA creation support (I
> > > mean
> > > > the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the
> LSP).
> > > >
> > > > Only the second is completely new.
> > >
> > > JD:  Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new.  The amount of work
> required
> > to
> > > support them both from an architecture and development perspective
> is
> > > under discussion
> > >
> > > [[PG]]
> > > The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a single
> thing
> > > that cannot be supported with  current H-LSPs, while you say
> > otherwise.
> > > In order to progress with the discussion I suggest that
> > > you produce a list of items that in your mind have to be studied.
> >
> > JD:  The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling
> > the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching stage LSP are
> also
> > the addresses of the containing hierarchical LSP.  Even if this is
> > allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow
> > this.
> >
> > We will also need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to
> > indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching
> stage
> > LSP.
> >
> > And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think we also need
> > to indicate that the set-up and holding priorities in the signaling
> > message for an intermediate switching stage LSP are meaningless.
> >
> > >
> > > Wrt your point, the successful restoration of a failed intermediate
> > > switching stage LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to
> the
> > > other endpoint regardless of the method used to initially establish
> > > that LSP, because this is strictly internal to the node at which
> the
> > > LSP failed.
> > >
> > > [[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say
> that
> > > fate sharing is not the same because the intermediate stages
> traverse
> > > two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that
> a
> > > node
> > > is able to restore the intermediate layer internally is
> > implementation
> > > dependent. It may happen that a NE can repair the problem
> internally,
> > > but it may also not happen.
> > > Having the LSP signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate
> > > stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which
> > method
> > > use cannot be made by CP. I expect it is made by an operator.
> >
> > JD:  Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it
> > transparently or it can't.  If it can, then nothing is externally
> > visible.  If it can't, it should indicate that the affected ODUJ
> > service LSPs have failed.
> >
> > Re-signaling the intermediate LSP seems absolutely useless.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 4)  Existing network management applications do not understand
> this
> > > > construct.
> > > >
> > > > [[PG]] Existent NMS do not understand multi-stage label but do
> > > > understand very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they
> work
> > > > exactly with that same logic. They did it for SDH and nothing
> > changes
> > > > conceptually for OTN.
> > >
> > > JD:  Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless of how
> > the
> > > intermediate switching stage LSPs are established, and the network
> > > management plane would neither understand nor care how the
> > intermediate
> > > switching stage LSPs are established.  In the data plane the two
> > > methods produce identical results
> > >
> > >
> > > [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSPs since a long time. (VC2,
> VC3
> > > and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport
> > > technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are also
> > > multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc... managing them with
> SDH
> > as
> > > a whole).
> >
> > JD:  Let me try again.  Our new construct is what I am terming a
> > 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a containing
> hierarchical
> > LSP (the ODUk transport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing
> > hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> > congruent.
> >
> > It is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few
> > concerns about it.
> >
> > > JD:  I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any
> > dependency
> > > in them on the method used to establish the intermediate switching
> > > stage LSPs
> > >
> > > [[PG]] If I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied
> then
> > > multi-stage label can be applied. What I intended is that with H-
> LSPs
> > > there is no need to perform any check because they can be applied
> in
> > > any condition.
> >
> > JD:  Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs' and not to
> > multi-stage labels.
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
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From pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jul  8 09:24:05 2011
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From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 18:22:48 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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--_003_CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694C88AFRMRSSXCHMBSA_
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Hi Greg and CCAMPer's

Thanks for your example, which is as you said really specified.
We then took the opportunity to work on this example with our own solution,=
 and to do the compilation of size.=20

---------------------------------------------------
Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in draft-peloso:
   - 1 static node attribute LSA: 108 bytes=20
   - 1 static resource description container LSA: 1004 bytes=20
   - 4 dynamic resource pool LSAs: 132 bytes each=20
  Total size: 1640 bytes
  Size of update: 132 bytes

Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in current WG drafts:
   - 1 dynamic optical property LSA: 1540 bytes
  Total size: 1540 bytes
  Size of update: 1540 bytes

The solution here are comparable regarding the overall size usage, 100 byte=
s at the advantage of Greg's solution.
Ours focuses on reducing the size of updated information, with an intrinsic=
 mechanism to perform the updates, without ambiguity for the flooding and m=
erges.
To avoid the pitfall introduced by the number of resources being defined in=
 the resource block information, the example provided by Greg had to assign=
 a Resource Block for each Wavelength Converter (200 in that case), then as=
 many Resource Block IDs, and to enforce an appropriate Resource Block ID o=
rdering that enables the usage of inclusive range for the definition of Res=
ource Block Sets. This trick applied to other node's architecture, would ha=
ve contrary effect on size. This point is being commented with others insid=
e the annoted version of Greg's example.

Regards,

- p

-----Message d'origine-----
De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de G=
reg Bernstein
Envoy=E9 : mardi 5 juillet 2011 17:25
=C0 : CCAMP
Objet : [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators

Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of issue w=
ith the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of regenerators or wavel=
ength converters are used in an optical system of some sort.  This is not t=
rue. The current WSON related WG drafts provide mechanisms commonly used in=
 GMPLS routing and signaling. However these mechanisms do not furnish a "un=
ique representation" of a given problem and never have. It is up to the use=
r of the GMPLS routing or signaling protocol to choose the most appropriate=
 mechanism, e.g., "range" or "list" to achieve an efficient encoding. Note =
that this is true of many standards beyond GMPLS.

In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource pool=
 connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or more diffe=
rent types of wavelength converters in this case) can be efficiently encode=
d. We also demonstrate that this encoding is minimalistic.  The analysis pr=
oceeds from a high level description of the system including a block diagra=
m of system structure, and includes descriptions of the pertinent sub-TLVs =
used from the existing WSON WG documents, and their scaling properties.  As=
 such one can see that the current WSON WG drafts excel in their ability to=
 handle this case without further modification.l

Best Regards

Greg

--
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=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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--_003_CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694C88AFRMRSSXCHMBSA_--

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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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John,
	Thanks for clarifying.  I propose some alternate terminology at the end
of this mail.

On 7/7/2011 4:13 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Snipped, comments inline.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>>>>
>>>> Not sure why you say "Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new".  There's
>>>> nothing new about multiple levels of H-LSPs/FAs.  Although most
>>>> implementations only deal with 2 levels in a single CP instance.
>> The
>>>> only thing I see as new is trying to signal them in one signaling
>>>> message (which BTW has also been done before, just not
>> standardized.)
>>>
>>> JD: A containing hierarchical LSP with a set of one or more
>>> intermediate stage switching LSPs whose endpoints are the same as the
>>> endpoints of the containing hierarchical LSP.
> 
> JD:  We first signal a containing hierarchical LSP.  (I use the term
> 'containing' simply to indicate that everything else is contained
> within it.)  This is the ODUk transport LSP the endpoints of which
> have an RSVP signaling adjacency used to establish ODUj service LSPs
> which transit it.
> 

Okay.  So this is just an H-LSP, right?

Whether this H-LSP is an FA or not, it is available to higher levels of
the hierarchy/signaling as an interface/RSVP hop.

Note, you have introduced another term here "ODUk transport LSP" which I
think you are using to refer to an H-LSP which uses an ODU switching type.

> If j < k - 1, the ODUk transport LSP is performing multi-stage
> switching, e.g., ODU1 <-> ODU2 <-> ODU3 (where right arrows indicate
> multiplexing and left arrows indicate de-multiplexing), and
> hierarchical LSPs need to be established for the intermediate
> switching stages.  I use the term 'intermediate switching stage LSP'
> to describe such an LSP, which in this example is the ODU2 LSP.
> 
> 'Sequential hierarchical LSPs' is the term used to indicate that the
> intermediate switching stage LSPs are explicitly established to
> complete the OTN multi-stage switching path between the ODUj service
> LSPs and the ODUk transport LSP.  

In other words a standard hierarchy/H-LSP. Right?

Again, in this case, each lower level of the hierarchy is available to
is available to higher levels of the hierarchy/signaling as an
interface/RSVP hop.

> 'Multi-stage labels' is the term
> used to indicate that the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> implicitly established as part of the establishment of select ODUj
> service LSPs.

Well this term implies a particular (and contentious) solution.  I think
we should avoid the 'Multi-stage label' term when discussing
requirements or general function, and not that particular solution.

How about implicit-sub-level LSP, or implicit-link LSP?

> 
> It should be noted that if the ODUk transport LSP provides switching
> of multiple types of ODUj service LSPs, then there may be multiple
> sets of intermediate switching stage LSPs, 

sigh, yet a new term 'intermediate switching stage LSPs' is this the
same as 'Sequential hierarchical LSPs' or the 'intermediate switching
stage LSPs [that] are implicitly established'?  I suspect the latter.
How about 'implicitly established H-LSPs' or 'implicit H-LSPs' for short?

> one for each different type of ODUj service LSP.

and one more 'ODUj service LSP'; which is nothing more than a standard
LSP that uses implicit sub-levels/links, or an 'implicit-link LSP'.

> 
> Finally, the term 'stacked hierarchical LSP' refers to an ODUk
> transport LSP and one or more sets of intermediate switching stage
> LSPs.  This construct has the interesting property that the endpoints
> of the ODUk transport LSP and the endpoints of the intermediate
> switching stage LSPs are congruent.
> 

so 'stacked hierarchical LSP' = 'standard H-LSPs' + 'implicit H-LSPs'

> Thanks,
> 
> John

How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-LSPs.

1) "implicit-link"
   An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
   (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
   result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
   (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
   may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)

2) "implicit-link LSP"
   This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
   implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.

3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
   The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
   an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
   signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.

Comments?

Lou


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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:21:30 -0700
Thread-Topic: John's Terminology (Was RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Snipped, comments inline

Sent from my iPhone


> >
> > JD:  We first signal a containing hierarchical LSP.  (I use the term
> > 'containing' simply to indicate that everything else is contained
> > within it.)  This is the ODUk transport LSP the endpoints of which
> > have an RSVP signaling adjacency used to establish ODUj service LSPs
> > which transit it.
> >
>=20
> Okay.  So this is just an H-LSP, right?

JD:  Correct

> Note, you have introduced another term here "ODUk transport LSP" which
> I
> think you are using to refer to an H-LSP which uses an ODU switching
> type.

JD: Correct, it seemed that some folks liked this term better

> > 'Sequential hierarchical LSPs' is the term used to indicate that the
> > intermediate switching stage LSPs are explicitly established to
> > complete the OTN multi-stage switching path between the ODUj service
> > LSPs and the ODUk transport LSP.
>=20
> In other words a standard hierarchy/H-LSP. Right?

JD:  It's one proposed method of establishing the intermediate LSPs

> > 'Multi-stage labels' is the term
> > used to indicate that the intermediate switching stage LSPs are
> > implicitly established as part of the establishment of select ODUj
> > service LSPs.
>=20
> Well this term implies a particular (and contentious) solution.  I
> think
> we should avoid the 'Multi-stage label' term when discussing
> requirements or general function, and not that particular solution.

JD:  It's the other proposed method of establishing the intermediate LSPs

>=20
> How about implicit-sub-level LSP, or implicit-link LSP?

JD:  I started with the term 'sub-layer LSP' but this perturbed some of the=
 folks that attend the ITU

>=20
> >
> > It should be noted that if the ODUk transport LSP provides switching
> > of multiple types of ODUj service LSPs, then there may be multiple
> > sets of intermediate switching stage LSPs,
>=20
> sigh, yet a new term 'intermediate switching stage LSPs' is this the
> same as 'Sequential hierarchical LSPs' or the 'intermediate switching
> stage LSPs [that] are implicitly established'?  I suspect the latter.
> How about 'implicitly established H-LSPs' or 'implicit H-LSPs' for
> short?

JD:  'Intermediate switching stage LSP' is one of the intermediate hierarch=
ical LSPs between the ODUk transport LSP and the ODUj service LSP.
>=20
> > one for each different type of ODUj service LSP.
>=20
> and one more 'ODUj service LSP'; which is nothing more than a standard
> LSP that uses implicit sub-levels/links, or an 'implicit-link LSP'.

JD: For example, let's have an ODUk transport LSP which is an ODU4 which su=
pports ODU0 <-> ODU1 <-> ODU2 <-> ODU4 and ODU1 <-> ODU3 <-> ODU4. =20

The two types of ODUj service LSPs are ODU0 and ODU1.  The set of intermedi=
ate switching stage LSPs for the former type would be [ODU1, ODU2] and the =
set of intermediate switching stage LSPs for the latter type would be {ODU3=
]
=20
>=20
> >
> > Finally, the term 'stacked hierarchical LSP' refers to an ODUk
> > transport LSP and one or more sets of intermediate switching stage
> > LSPs.  This construct has the interesting property that the endpoints
> > of the ODUk transport LSP and the endpoints of the intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs are congruent.
> >
>=20
> so 'stacked hierarchical LSP' =3D 'standard H-LSPs' + 'implicit H-LSPs'

JD:  Correct

>=20
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
>=20
> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
> and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-
> LSPs.
>=20
> 1) "implicit-link"
>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>=20
> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>=20
> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>=20
> Comments?

JD:  1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and 2) is=
 what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?

>=20
> Lou


From lberger@labn.net  Fri Jul  8 17:27:32 2011
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References: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A88459D7@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>	<D89B562FE4A5B341B18808FB8441CC7C176EA7F9@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A0173A67A@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com>	<D89B562FE4A5B341B18808FB8441CC7C176EA8D5@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A899F3B2@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>	<D89B562FE4A5B341B18808FB8441CC7C176EACB5@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8A6976C@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>	<D89B562FE4A5B341B18808FB8441CC7C176EB311@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8E18F0F@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4E14734C.8000903@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8E18F80@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4E148507.3010405@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8EF0299@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4E173641.10809@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A8FAFE50@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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On 7/8/2011 5:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
...
>> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
>> and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-
>> LSPs.
>>
>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>>
>> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>>
>> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>>
>> Comments?
> 
> JD: 1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and
Given that 1 is a "logical entity", I suspect you mean (and I agree)
that 3) is whay you were calling an intermediate switching stage LSP.

> 2) is what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?

agreed.

So this leaves us with 4 types of LSPs.

(old) LSPs
      LSPs that use explicit links
(old) H-LSPs
      LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
      explicitly controlled

(new) Implicit H-LSP
      LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
      controlled via implicit mechanisms
(new) implicit-link LSP
      LSPs that use / trigger Implicit H-LSPs

Comments?

Lou

> 
>>
>> Lou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From lberger@labn.net  Sun Jul 10 18:13:23 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] CCAMP Quebec City Agenda Requests
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All,
	If you sent your request only to Dan, please resend to the chairs.
Failure to do so, will likely result in you not making it on the agenda.

Also, Dan is unable to attend this meeting (but expects to attend in the
future) so we will be looking for minute takers and jabber scribes for
the Quebec sessions.  Minute takers are expected to capture the
discussion to the best of their ability, including identities of
presenters and other speakers (at the mic), as well as any discussion
that takes place in session.  Presentations themselves are covered by
the slides and are therefore not repeated in the minutes.  There are
recordings available that can help in the review and preparation of
draft minutes.  Draft minutes are sent to the chairs for review and
distribution.  Minute takers/scribes are identified in the minutes,
unless they choose not to be.

If you are interested in volunteering to take minutes or be a jabber
scribe, please send the chairs an off-list e-mail.

Much thanks,
Lou

On 6/24/2011 10:10 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:
> All,
> 
> The draft meeting agenda is out, note, the final agenda will be
> published on July 1st.
> 
> Please send your requests for time on the working group agenda to the
> Chairs and the WG secretary (Dan) by the end of the day on July 5th.
> 
> Thanks,
> Deborah and Lou
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/81/index.html
> 
> Cut-off dates:
> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2011.html#IETF81
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Sun Jul 10 23:37:28 2011
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:36:41 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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To: 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, 'John E Drake' <jdrake@juniper.net>, "'Sadler, Jonathan B.'" <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, 'Lou Berger' <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John,

What is the answer to Igor's question?





Thanks
=20
Fatai

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Igor Bryskin
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5 23:23
To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

John,

You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP =
independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete, reroute, =
restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the =
top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

You also said:
The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent signaling =
of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.

This could be done via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the ODU2 =
is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:09 AM
To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

Igor,

If we have, for example, a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is =
being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, then with multi-stage labels, an =
intermediate stage switching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part of =
the signaling of the first ODU1.  The ODU2 has capacity for additional =
ODU1s and the subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can reference that =
ODU2.

I have email from you agreeing with this which I can trot out if =
necessary 8->.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> John,
>
> You said:
>
> JD:  A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also
> created in the control plane and can be referenced by subsequent ODUj
> signaling requests.
>
> What do you need the control plane state for?
>
> Igor
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:47 AM
> To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Comments inline.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:26 AM
> > To: John E Drake; Lou Berger
> > Cc: CCAMP
> > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > John,
> >
> > This seems ambiguous depending on the scope of the term "LSP".  This
> > can refer to a dataplane construct or to a control plane construct.
>
> JD:  Doesn't the term LSP typically refer to both aspects?
> >
> > I assume you mean "The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically =
creates
> > the lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it in addition to the
> service
> > LSP.
>
> JD:  A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also
> created in the control plane and can be referenced by subsequent ODUj
> signaling requests.
>
> > This is all done without additional signaling sessions for the
> > lower-layer dataplane LSP."
>
> JD:  This is accomplished without explicit signaling of the
> intermediate stage switching LSPs?
>
> >
> > Can you validate the above statement?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jonathan Sadler
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of John E Drake
> > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58 PM
> > To: Lou Berger
> > Cc: CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> >
> > 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically creates the intermediate
> > switching stage LSPs necessary to support it within the containing
> > hierarchical ODUk LSP'
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:
> >
> > > John,
> > >        I think all understand that the question relates to if =
there
> > > is a
> > > requirement to support signaling multiple stages in a single LSP.
> > >
> > >> What do I need to write to make this clear?
> > >
> > > If you disagree, please rephrase as you think is sufficient to =
make
> > > the
> > > question clear.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > > On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> > >> Lou,
> > >>
> > >> As I think I have written at least two or three times over the
> past
> > >> day or so, I don't think the requirement as originally written or
> as
> > >> revised is useful because both or the two methods under =
discussion
> > >> will meet it.
> > >>
> > >> What do I need to write to make this clear?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> So John,
> > >>>       From my list:
> > >>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)
> > >>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)
> > >>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)
> > >>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)
> > >>> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)
> > >>>
> > >>> Are you a "yes" in 2C or 2D?
> > >>>
> > >>> Lou
> > >>>
> > >>> PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...
> > >>>
> > >>> On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> > >>>> Fatai,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how
> about
> > >>>> using 'intermediate switching stage
> > >>>> LSP'?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second
> paragraph.
> > >>>> I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method,
> > >>>> either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to
> > establish
> > >>>> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no
> > >>>> reason to support both.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang"
> > <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If not, I would like to step further to make something =
explicit.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough
> resource
> > >>>> on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or if
> > >>>> Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3
> > termination,
> > >>>> how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Could you explain a little more?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor
> > Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> > >>>>> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> > VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> > >>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list in
> > >>>> response to Pietro=E2=80=99s email.  I think it also addresses =
the
> points
> > >>>> in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line
> analys
> > >>>> is of it by you.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM
> > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >>>> VITTORIO)'
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> OK, Let=E2=80=99s converge.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be used
> > for
> > >>>> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this example
> > >>>> below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage
> > >>>> muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create ODU2
> FA
> > >>>> LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For
> these
> > >>>> two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think
> you
> > >>>> can understand that these two ways are better and more =
efficient
> > >>>> than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 =
FA-LSP).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema] to
> > >>>> give the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer
> for
> > >>>> multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or
> > >>>> multi-
> > >>>> stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect
> unified
> > >>>> solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose
> this
> > >>>> approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels, they
> > can
> > >>>> just choose single stage + H-LSP.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 12:13
> > >>>> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO
> > >>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on
> links,
> > >>>> in which case the =E2=80=98containing hierarchical LSP=E2=80=99 =
is the link=E2=80=99s
> > >>>> OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling
> multipl
> > >>>> e one hop sub-layer LSPs.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case,
> > because
> > >>>> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the network
> in
> > >>>> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage
> > >>>> hierarchical LSPs.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 11:37
> > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >>>> VITTORIO)'
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Comments inline.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
> > >>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM
> > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >>>> VITTORIO)'
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created directly
> by
> > >>>> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3
> before
> > >>>> ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA)
> is
> > >>>> already there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an =
email
> I
> > >>>> sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that
> you
> > >>>> create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it =
to
> > >>>> establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs
> as
> > >>>> needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of
> the
> > >>>> two proposals being discussed.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your
> thought.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is
> still
> > >>>> H-LSP concept there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B =
holds
> > >>>> it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,  and
> > >>>> then *either*
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then =
sends
> > >>>> the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-
> > stage
> > >>>> label for the ODU2 LSP
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be
> > >>>> regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between =
one-
> > hop
> > >>>> FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as =
one-
> > hop
> > >>>> scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this
> > >>>> sentence that we are trying to make you understood many times).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didn=E2=80=99t =
think mul
> > >>>> ti-st
> > >>>> age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and
> tha
> > >>>> t I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop
> multis
> > >>>> tage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing
> hiera
> > >>>> rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this example,
> > why
> > >>>> it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not
> just
> > >>>> use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please =
review
> > >>>> our slides again to get more information about cons of multi-
> stage
> > >>>> muxing(slide 5).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your
> figure
> > I
> > >>>> had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we had
> an
> > >>>> interesting scenario to discuss.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 23:39
> > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >>>> VITTORIO)'
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 =
between n
> > >>>> ode B
> > >>>> and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using the
> s
> > >>>> ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-layer
> OD
> > >>>> U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.
> Wit
> > >>>> h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an
> ODU2
> > >>>> multi-stage label.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with some
> > >>>> non-
> > >>>> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage
> > labels,
> > >>>> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isn=E2=80=99t =
enough
> > >>>> diffe
> > >>>> rence between the two approaches to warrant standardizing both.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
> > >>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM
> > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >>>> VITTORIO)'
> > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some
> improper
> > >>>> wording. Let=E2=80=99s discuss tech.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a simple
> > >>>> example shown below.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A to
> > Node
> > >>>> E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g.,
> traffic
> > >>>> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv
> message?
> > >>>> What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path
> or
> > >>>> Resv message?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <image001.png>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fatai
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-
> > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> > >>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
> > >>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake
> > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 6:12
> > >>>> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>> Cc: CCAMP
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Igor,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have a few clarifications.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop
> > hierarchical
> > >>>> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to understand.)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just =
works
> > >>>> for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports =
multi-
> > >>>> stage switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical
> LSPs,
> > >>>> the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs
> > which
> > >>>> provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the same
> > two
> > >>>> endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost
> certainly
> > >>>> details to be worked out.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I
> would
> > >>>> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:
> > >>>>> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Cc: CCAMP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi Pietro,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he =
keeps
> > >>>>> saying
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information =
pertinent
> > to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does
> seem
> > >>>>> stupid
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is
> > >>>>> sufficient a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create =
and
> > >>>>> support
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart
> implications,
> > >>>>> etc.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as
> identification
> > >>>>> of a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the
> GMPLS
> > >>>>> god-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to
> > >>>>> control the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate =
multi-
> > >>>>> stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to do
> > so.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Igor
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-
> > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
> > >>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> To: John E Drake
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Cc: CCAMP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hello John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of
> > >>>>> private
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people.
> This
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> impolite and unprofessional.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four
> > >>>>> threads
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to
> > >>>>> follow for
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning.
> > >>>>> Moreover,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already
> > >>>>> started in
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the mailing list.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and
> > >>>>> deliberate
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical
> > >>>>> motivation as
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> reported in your mails and snipped below:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical
> LSP,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it is
> not
> > >>>>> even
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> wrong."
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and
> > found
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> them, shall we say, lacking."
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from =
a
> > >>>>> purely
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> technical point of view.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > >>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like =
an
> > >>>>> hour.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a
> minute.
> > >>>>> That's
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> relativity.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> (A. Einstein)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-
> > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-
> > >>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Of John E Drake
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.13
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> To: CCAMP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: John E Drake
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> > Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
> > >>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>> ; Ciena -
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> > >>>>> BELOTTI,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele
> Ceccarelli
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Fatai,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Comments inline.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:
> > >>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> > >>>>>> Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;
> > >>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> ; Ciena -
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> BELOTTI,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele
> Ceccarelli
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> JD:  I will let this pass.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,
> > >>>>>> establish
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the =
issues
> > >>>>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> we
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan =
mentioned
> > >>>>>> (eg.,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> OAM/protection issues).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I don't
> > >>>>> think the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels is
> > >>>>> either
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was
> > >>>>> addressing
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of =
establishing
> > >>>>> multi-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the
> > >>>>> issues
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than
> blue
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two =
approaches
> I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the
> same.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy
> > >>>>>> must be
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label
> > >>>>>> approach.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C and
> D,
> > >>>>>> but
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> B,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching, =
the
> > HO
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> ODUj
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B
> > >>>>>> and D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there
> are
> > >>>>>> lots
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was
> > simply
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve =
wrt
> > >>>>> latency
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs
> within
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Fatai
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> From: "John E Drake"
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne
> > t
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > >>>>>> lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> > >>>>>> <<m
> > >>>>>> ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@
> > ericsson.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Rajan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Rao"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > =
<<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Fatai Zhang"
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@
> > huawei.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Khuzema
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Pithewan"
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan
> > @infinera.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> > >>>>>> lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> > >>>>>> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>; "Ashok
> > >>>>>> Kunjidhapatham"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> <<m
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto:
> > akunjidhapatham@infinera.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Diego Caviglia"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> <<m
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:di
> > ego.caviglia@ericsson.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Steve Balls"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:S
> > teve.Balls@metaswitch.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"
> > >>>>>>>>
> > <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com
> > >>>>>>>> ;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co
> > m.cn
> > >>>>>>>> ; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.mar
> > garia@nsn.com
> > >>>>>>> ;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> "Li Dan"
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
<<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.
> > danli@huawei.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Jonathan Hardwick"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> <<m
> > >>>>>> ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwic
> > k@metaswitch.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> <<m
> > >>>>>>
> >
> =
ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:jo
> > nathan.sadler@tellabs.com
> > >>>>>>>> ; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > =
<<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Pietro,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using
> single-
> > >>>>>> stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label
> format,
> > >>>>>> which
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP
> establishment
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> using
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> single-stage muxing is done.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing
> before
> > >>>>>> so we
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use
> LSP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> explicitly
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information within
> > the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Path
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are established
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the
> ODUj.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> efficient
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do
> not
> > >>>>>> want
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that =
we
> > >>>>>> will
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when =
a
> > >>>>>> node
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how
> > >>>>>> signaling is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> be accomplished.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: John E Drake
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema
> > >>>>>>> Pithewan;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
> Caviglia;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Margaria;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level something
> (H-
> > >>>>>>> LSP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with
> something
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> does not exist at all.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together with
> > >>>>>>> NMS.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-
> > stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> label
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy
> > >>>>>>> implementation
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> consequences.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach
> can
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> only
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> be
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage
> muxing)
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> it
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides =
that
> > >>>>>>> Fatai
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> sent a few days ago.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-
> stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> label
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like
> an
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> hour.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a
> > minute.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> That's
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> relativity.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema
> > >>>>>>> Pithewan;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego
> Caviglia;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Margaria;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Somasundaram
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> switching
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the
> same
> > >>>>>>> LSP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems
> ill-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of
> > signaling
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > =
lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > lucent.com
> > >>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hello John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in
> > >>>>>>> routing
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> multi-stage label is supported.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> I do not agree with this statement.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are
> > >>>>>>> possible
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> (and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> supported.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: venerd=C3=AC 17 giugno 2011 2.09
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele
> > >>>>>>> Ceccarelli;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO
> > >>>>>>> (SERGIO);
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena =
-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Lyndon
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;
> 'NSN
> > -
> > >>>>>>> Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sadler';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> different
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This
> means
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> we
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type, =
and
> > >>>>>>> I am
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> proposing that we use multistage.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai =
Zhang;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Khuzema
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;
> Diego
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;
> 'NSN
> > -
> > >>>>>>> Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sadler';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is
> > >>>>>>> implicit
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine
> > >>>>>>> explicitly
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> declares the support.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > >>>>>>> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > =
lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > lucent.com
> > >>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like
> an
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> hour.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a
> > minute.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> That's
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> relativity.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> (A. Einstein)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 15.48
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> BELOTTI,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> (PIETRO
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon
> Ong';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;
> 'NSN
> > -
> > >>>>>>> Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sadler';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to
> > >>>>>>> support
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i =
believe
> > >>>>>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> as
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been
> > told
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> not
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stage
> > only
> > >>>>>>> or
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover
> backward
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> compatibility issues somehow.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> BR
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Daniele
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 8.53
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema
> > >>>>>>> Pithewan;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego
> > Caviglia;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> 'Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;
> 'NSN
> > -
> > >>>>>>> Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sadler';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support
> for
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> multi-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Rajan,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much
> > >>>>>>> preferred
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage
> > >>>>>>> labels.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical
> LSPs.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Pithewan;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego
> > Caviglia;
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> 'Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;
> 'NSN
> > -
> > >>>>>>> Cyril
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs - =
Jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Sadler';
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support
> for
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> multi-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support required
> in
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> link
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and
> > >>>>>>> single-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> stage
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to
> indicate
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> what
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the =
issues
> > we
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation involving
> > NEs
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Rajan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> >
> =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailm
> > an/listinfo/ccamp
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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> > The information contained in this message may be privileged
> > and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
> > of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
> > or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
> > dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
> > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> > please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
> > deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs
> > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'Sadler, Jonathan B.'" <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, 'Lou Berger' <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 04:04:10 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:35:51 -0700
Thread-Topic: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is this n=
ot exactly what I said in my third sentence?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.=
5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:so=
lid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></=
b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fu.xi=
hua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 1=
1, 2011 6:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org; John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage v=
s multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi John, </spa=
n><br><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
>When we are talking about the preemption, we should refer to rfc3209</span=
> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&qu=
ot;</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Setup Priority</span> <br><br><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp;The priority of the session with respect to taking resources,</span>=
 <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;in the range of 0 to 7. &nbsp;The value 0 is =
the highest priority.</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The Setup Priorit=
y is used in deciding whether this session can</span> <br><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp;preempt another session.</span> <br><br><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Holding Priorit=
y</span> <br><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The priority of the session with =
respect to holding resources,</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;in the ra=
nge of 0 to 7. &nbsp;The value 0 is the highest priority.</span> <br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Holding Priority is used in deciding whether this sessio=
n can</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;be preempted by another session.<=
/span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'>&quot;</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'>Suppose LSP5 (i.e., ODU0 LSP) has been over LSP2, LSP3 or LSP4.<=
/span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'>When LSP6 requests on AB an ODU1, we should compare the set up priority o=
f LSP6 (i.e., <span style=3D'color:blue'>set up priority =3D 4</span> ) wit=
h the holding priority of LSP0 (i.e., <span style=3D'color:blue'>holding pr=
iority =3D 5</span>). So LSP6 can preempt LSP0.</span> <br><br><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Xihua</span> <br><br=
><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D=
0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"35%" valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John E =
Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;f=
ont-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><br><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fo=
nt-size:7.5pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>: &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</span> <o:p></=
o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
>2011-07-09 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=C9=CF=CE=
=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 12:13</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"64%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'w=
idth:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><table class=3DMsoNormalTable b=
order=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td val=
ign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal al=
ign=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-siz=
e:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop styl=
e=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John E Drake &lt;jdrake@ju=
niper.net&gt;, &quot;Sadler, Jonathan B.&quot; &lt;Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.=
com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_v=
ittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;, 'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</span=
> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75p=
t .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right=
'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:=
p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td>=
</tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN s=
tyle=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [CCAMP] RSV=
P OTN single stage vs multi stage</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable borde=
r=3D0 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt'></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><=
/td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bot=
tom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><tt>Jonathan,</tt><br><br><tt>Oops, I misread your =
last question. &nbsp;If LSP5 was signaled in LSP0, then LSP0's priority is =
3 and LSP 6 would be rejected. If LSP5 was signaled in LSP 2, 3, or 4, then=
 LSP0's priority is 5 and LSP6 would pre-empt it.</tt><br><br><tt>Thanks,</=
tt><br><br><tt>John</tt><br><br><tt>Sent from my iPhone</tt><br><br><br><tt=
>&gt; -----Original Message-----</tt><br><tt>&gt; From: John E Drake</tt><b=
r><tt>&gt; Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:00 AM</tt><br><tt>&gt; To: 'Sadler=
, Jonathan B.'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO);</tt><br><tt>&gt;=
 'CCAMP'</tt><br><tt>&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage=
</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; Jonathan,</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; Comments inline.</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; John</tt><br><tt>&gt=
;</tt><br><tt>&gt; Sent from my iPhone</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt;</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; From: =
Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]</tt><br><tt>&gt; &=
gt; Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:29 AM</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, P=
IETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake; 'CCAMP'</tt><br><tt>&gt; &g=
t; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Hi John and Pietro,</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt=
>&gt; &gt; I'm not certain I understand the concept of the lower-layer ODU<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; inheriting the holding priority of the service LSP.</=
tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD:</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &quo=
t;6.3. &nbsp;FA-LSP Holding Priority</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbs=
p; &nbsp;The value of the holding priority of an FA-LSP must be the minimum=
</tt><br><tt>&gt; of</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;the configured holding p=
riority of the FA-LSP and the holding</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;priorit=
ies of the LSPs tunneling through the FA-LSP (note that</tt><br><tt>&gt; &n=
bsp; &nbsp;smaller priority values denote higher priority). &nbsp;Thus, if =
an LSP of</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;higher priority than the FA-LSP tun=
nels through the FA-LSP, the FA-</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LSP is itsel=
f promoted to the higher priority. &nbsp;However, if the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;tunneled LSP is torn down, the FA-LSP need not drop its priorit=
y to</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;its old value right away; it may be advi=
sable to apply hysteresis in</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;this case.</tt><=
br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;If the holding priority of an FA-=
LSP is configured, this document</tt><br><tt>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;restricts it=
 to 0.&quot;</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Let me=
 start with</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; some clarifying questions:</tt><br><tt>&g=
t; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 1. Holding priority is used when performing C=
AC to determine if an</tt><br><tt>&gt; new</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; LSP should=
 preempt an existing LSP, correct?</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: &n=
bsp;Correct</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 2. When preemption occur=
s, the existing LSP is released (graceful or</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; otherwis=
e) by the node where the preemption occurs. &nbsp;This would</tt><br><tt>&g=
t; release</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the service ODU and lower-layer ODU, corre=
ct?</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: &nbsp;The lower layer ODU would n=
ot necessarily be released</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 3. Two di=
fferent service LSPs may be signaled with different holding</tt><br><tt>&gt=
; &gt; priorities but use the same lower-layer ODU to carry the service LSP=
,</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; correct?</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: &nbs=
p;Correct</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Now,=
 in the scenario where an lower-layer ODU data-plane link</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
&gt; connection has been established to support two different service LSPs<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; and the service LSPs have different holding prioritie=
s, what would be</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the preemption policy for the lower =
layer ODU?</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; A more concrete exam=
ple:</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &nbsp; ---A---B---</tt><br=
><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; AB =3D ODU2 link without direct ODU0 s=
upport</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 1) On AB, LSP1 requests =
an ODU0 with holding priority =3D 5. &nbsp;This is</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; sa=
tisfied by creating an ODU1 link-connection on the ODU2. &nbsp;My</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; &gt; interpretation of your statement is the holding priority of th=
e ODU1</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; would be 5. &nbsp;LSP1 doesn't completely allo=
cate the ODU1, leaving an</tt><br><tt>&gt; ODU0</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; avail=
able.</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: &nbsp;Let's call this ODU1 LSP0=
</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 2) On AB, three LSPs (LSP2, LSP3, L=
SP4) request additional ODU1s,</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; filling up the ODU2. &=
nbsp;These LSPs are also signaled with holding</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; priori=
ty=3D3.</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: &nbsp;So we have four ODU1s, =
LSP0 at priority 5, and LSP2, 3, &amp; 4 at</tt><br><tt>&gt; priority 3</tt=
><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 3) On AB, LSP5 requests an ODU0. &nbsp;=
LSP5 is signaled with holding</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; priority =3D 3.</tt><br=
><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Will LSP5 be:</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &n=
bsp;a) admitted using the spare ODU0 in the ODU1 link-connection created</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; by LSP1?</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;b) admitted preemp=
ting LSP1?</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;c) refused since an ODU1 created by =
LSP1 is for priority =3D 5?</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: &nbsp;LSP=
5 can be signaled in LSP0, 2, 3, or 4. &nbsp;If it is signaled in</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; LSP0, LSP1 would not be pre-empted since there is capacity for LSP5=
</tt><br><tt>&gt; within it, and LSP0's priority jumps to 3</tt><br><tt>&gt=
;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; If it is admitted On AB, what=
 happens when LSP6 requests on AB an</tt><br><tt>&gt; ODU1</tt><br><tt>&gt;=
 &gt; with holding priority =3D 4?</tt><br><tt>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; JD: Wh=
ich of the four ODU1 LSPs is specified in the signaling of LSP6?</tt><br><t=
t>&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Thanks,</tt><br><tt>&gt;=
 &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Jonathan Sadler</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On</tt><br><tt>&gt; Behalf<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)</tt><br>=
<tt>&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:04 AM</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; To:=
 John E Drake; 'CCAMP'</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Hel=
lo John</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Snip: &quot; Bandwidth =
accounting is the same with either method. &nbsp;Per</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =
Section 6.3 of RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email, the</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; &gt; intermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of =
the</tt><br><tt>&gt; ODUj</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; service LSP. &nbsp;More imp=
ortantly, the containing hierarchical ODUk</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; transport =
LSP also inherits the ODUj holding priority.&quot;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; I did not remember that section. The bandwidth accounti=
ng point is</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; closed.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt=
>&gt; &gt; Pietro</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Pietro =
Vittorio Grandi</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolutio=
n</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)</tt><br><tt>&gt; &=
gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Mail: pietro_vittorio.grand=
i@alcatel-lucent.com</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Put your hand on a hot st=
ove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Sit with=
 a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a &nbsp;minute.</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; That's</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; relativity.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; (A. Eins=
tein)</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; ---=
--Original Message-----</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net]</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Sent: gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011 21=
.31</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); 'C=
CAMP'</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Cc: Igor Bryskin; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)</tt>=
<br><tt>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage</tt><br=
><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Snipped, comments inline.</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</=
tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello John,</tt><br><tt>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Point by point in line with technica=
l consideration.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Pers=
onally, I do not believe that in presence of any HW flexibility</tt><br><tt=
>&gt; &gt; an</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; operator will leave to CP the free=
dom to choose which</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; is the intermediate stage to=
 be allocated. This independently from</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the</tt><br><t=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; way</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; in which an LSP is signaled=
.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; When there is a cho=
ice between let's say ODU2 or ODU3 intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
stages this somewhat involves planning, because capacities are</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; high.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;The capabi=
lities are exactly the same whether the intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =
switching stages are established with a set of sequential Path</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; messages</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; (method 1) or with multi-stage labels (=
method 2)</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Moreover, the op=
erator will not have available certain</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; functionalitie=
s</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; for intermediate stages (e.g restoration) when=
 using multi-stage</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; labels.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; So the operator must have an explicit way to choose not to make use</=
tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; of</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage label.</tt><=
br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp=
;Would you please give me a brief description of what you mean by</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; &gt; 'restoration' in the above text and how you think it will be</=
tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; accomplished using GMPLS signaling? &nbsp;We have gone=
 around on this</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; multiple times and I think either one=
 or both of us is confused.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; This considered, there is no reason to force a=
n implementation to</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; have</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; m=
ulti-stage label since day one. (and even no reason to implement</tt><br><t=
t>&gt; it</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; until</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; it ha=
s been verified that there is a real scaling problem)</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;My preference has always been one method.<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt; The second method would allow the labels for the hierarchical</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; ODU2</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSP</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt; to be piggybacked on the signaling of an ODU1 LSP between the</tt><=
br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; endpoints</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; of the cont=
aining hierarchical ODU3 LSP. &nbsp;This allows the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; hierarchical</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ODU2 LSP to be implicitly =
established during the signaling of an</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; ODU1</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; LSP.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]] Yes. I would add that the intermediate stage cannot=
 be</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; completely transparent because bandwidt=
h accounting and</tt><br><tt>&gt; restoration</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; ar=
e</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; impacting on it.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Bandwidth accounting is the same wi=
th either method</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG=
]] As you say below, bandwidth accounting of intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
stages</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; depends from the priority of ODUj if mult=
i-stage labels are used</tt><br><tt>&gt; and</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; the=
 effect has to be cascaded to all intermediate stages .</tt><br><tt>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; It is not so if signaling with H-LSPs is used.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt=
;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Bandwidth accounting is the same with eit=
her method. &nbsp;Per</tt><br><tt>&gt; Section</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 6.3 of=
 RFC 4206 and as I stated in my previous email,</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the i=
ntermediate switching stages inherit the holding priority of the</tt><br><t=
t>&gt; &gt; ODUj service LSP. &nbsp;More importantly, the containing hierar=
chical ODUk</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; transport LSP also inherits the ODUj hold=
ing priority.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Which are the set-up and hold priorities of the inte=
rmediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; stages</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
?</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;A reasona=
ble default would be to use the set-up and holding</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; priorities of the highest ODUj LSP using that set of intermediate</tt><b=
r><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage LSPs.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><=
br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is actually an important differentiator between =
the two</tt><br><tt>&gt; methods.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; The sequential=
 establishment of intermediate switching stage LSPs</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; introduces a number of error cases involving a mismatch in the set-</tt=
><br><tt>&gt; up</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; and holding priorities between =
the intermediate switching stage</tt><br><tt>&gt; LSPs</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt=
; as</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; well as between these LSPs and the ODUj LSP=
s they are supporting.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; These error cases and the=
ir ramifications would need to be analyzed</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; and</tt><b=
r><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; addressed.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; This is an example of the type of issues you are overlooking whe=
n</tt><br><tt>&gt; you</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; say there is no work to b=
e done to support cascaded hierarchical</tt><br><tt>&gt; LSPs</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; using LSP hierarchy[[PG]] .</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><b=
r><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]]</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; When intermediate st=
ages are explicitly signaled, the priority</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; of AL=
L upper layers is dependent from the priority of the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =
intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; layers. This is reflected in bandwi=
dth accounting reducing the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; resources</tt><br><t=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; of all upper layers accordingly to the priority of the int=
ermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; This=
 operation is made once and for all.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; So if intermediate stage is allocated at priority 5, we sim=
ply have</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; to</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; subtract from =
upper layers resources from priority 1 to 4, so that</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =
high</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; priority ODUj cannot use LO-priority H-LSPs=
.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Per Section 6.3 of =
RFC 4206 the above is simply incorrect.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; With multi-stage label, bandwidth =
accounting for intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; stages</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; changes dynamically dependently from the priorities of the clients</tt>=
<br><tt>&gt; &gt; and</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; the algorithm is not very =
clear to me.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; For instance, why should we accept =
an ODUj with priority =3D 0 if the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; intermediate =
stage has already been instantiated implicitly with a</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; lower priority ? &nbsp;If we allow the intermediate stage change in</=
tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; priority</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; then</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; indirectly other ODUjs are affected. I am not really convince=
d that</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; it is something easy to control.</tt><br>=
<tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Per Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, =
this is the way hierarchical LSPs</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; work.</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This is motivated by the fac=
t that intermediate stages could be</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; pre-</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; empted for restoration reasons (even if it cannot be re=
stored).</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;I =
would think that it would be the ODUj LSPs that would be</tt><br><tt>&gt; p=
re-</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; empted, followed by my reply to 1), above</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]] Let me explain b=
etter what I intended.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Take the usual example of=
 ODU1-ODU2-ODU3 &nbsp;when we are restoring an</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; ODU2</=
tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSP with a certain priority, routing checks bandw=
idth accounting</tt><br><tt>&gt; for</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; ODU 2. If t=
he priority allows it the ODU2 is pre-empted</tt><br><tt>&gt; independently=
</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; from the fact that it is explicitly signaled or=
 not.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;For your exampl=
e, above, we would advertise the bandwidth</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; available =
for the ODUj (=3D ODU1) service LSPs and the underlying ODUK</tt><br><tt>&g=
t; (=3D</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; ODU3) transport LSP bandwidth. &nbsp;We would=
 not be advertising the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; intermediate switching stage =
(=3D ODU2) bandwidth. &nbsp;As I originally</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; wrote, ab=
ove, it is the ODUj LSPs that would be pre-empted.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; This has as side effect=
 that ODUjs are pre-empted as well (and</tt><br><tt>&gt; maybe</tt><br><tt>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; are restored). With this respect the ODUj bandwidth accounti=
ng</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; mechanism makes</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; so=
me difference.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;See Se=
ction 6.3 of RFC 4206.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt=
><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Even if I cannot prove it I have the suspect that t=
he dynamic</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; bandwidth</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; accou=
nting of intermediate stages might cause a higher</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; number of crankbacks during heavy restoration processes because</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; some</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; intermediate stages that are believ=
ed pre-emptable suddenly are no</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; more</tt><br><tt>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; pre-emptable because a high priority ODUj forbids it.</tt><br><t=
t>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;See Section 6.3 of RFC 4206, an=
d again, we don't advertise</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; intermediate switching st=
age bandwidth.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This type of multi-lay=
er hierarchical LSP is new and REGARDLESS</tt><br><tt>&gt; of</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; which of the two methods is used to establish the sub-la=
yer LSPs</tt><br><tt>&gt; it</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; has</tt><br><tt>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt; the following characteristics:</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]] John, this is one point of disa=
greement. The first</tt><br><tt>&gt; mechanism</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; i=
s</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; just the currently standardized H-LSP wit=
h FA creation support (I</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; mean</tt><br><tt>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt; the possibility to transmit with signaling an address for the=
</tt><br><tt>&gt; LSP).</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt; Only the second is completely new.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Stacked hierarchical LSPs are new. &nb=
sp;The amount of work</tt><br><tt>&gt; required</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; to</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; support them both from an architecture and develop=
ment perspective</tt><br><tt>&gt; is</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; under discu=
ssion</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]]</tt><br>=
<tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; The situation seems to be that up to now I do not see a =
single</tt><br><tt>&gt; thing</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; that cannot be sup=
ported with &nbsp;current H-LSPs, while you say</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; other=
wise.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; In order to progress with the discussion I=
 suggest that</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; you produce a list of items that i=
n your mind have to be studied.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
 JD: &nbsp;The issue I with which I am most concerned is that in signaling<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the endpoint addresses of an intermediate switching s=
tage LSP are</tt><br><tt>&gt; also</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the addresses of t=
he containing hierarchical LSP. &nbsp;Even if this is</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
 allowed in RFC 6107, I am not sure that implementations would allow</tt><b=
r><tt>&gt; &gt; this.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; We will a=
lso need to define some new flags in the RFC 6107 objects to</tt><br><tt>&g=
t; &gt; indicate that the LSP being signaled is an intermediate switching</=
tt><br><tt>&gt; stage</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; LSP.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt>=
<br><tt>&gt; &gt; And as I mentioned, above, in my previous email, I think =
we also need</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; to indicate that the set-up and holding =
priorities in the signaling</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; message for an intermedia=
te switching stage LSP are meaningless.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Wrt your point, the successful res=
toration of a failed intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stag=
e LSP at one of its endpoints can be transparent to</tt><br><tt>&gt; the</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; other endpoint regardless of the method used to in=
itially establish</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; that LSP, because this is stri=
ctly internal to the node at which</tt><br><tt>&gt; the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; LSP failed.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [=
[PG]] My point was more about fate sharing. I was trying to say</tt><br><tt=
>&gt; that</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; fate sharing is not the same because =
the intermediate stages</tt><br><tt>&gt; traverse</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; two boards, so the alarm situation is very different. The fact that</tt><=
br><tt>&gt; a</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; node</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; is=
 able to restore the intermediate layer internally is</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;=
 implementation</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; dependent. It may happen that a =
NE can repair the problem</tt><br><tt>&gt; internally,</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; but it may also not happen.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; Having the LS=
P signaled in this case allows to restore intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; stages instead of all the ODUjs. Of course the decision of which</tt=
><br><tt>&gt; &gt; method</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; use cannot be made by =
CP. I expect it is made by an operator.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Either the node that experiences the failure can fix it<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; transparently or it can't. &nbsp;If it can, then noth=
ing is externally</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; visible. &nbsp;If it can't, it shou=
ld indicate that the affected ODUJ</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; service LSPs have =
failed.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; Re-signaling the interm=
ediate LSP seems absolutely useless.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
4) &nbsp;Existing network management applications do not understand</tt><br=
><tt>&gt; this</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; construct.</tt><br><tt>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]] Existent NMS do not u=
nderstand multi-stage label but do</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; understa=
nd very well multistage made with H-LSPs because they</tt><br><tt>&gt; work=
</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; exactly with that same logic. They did it =
for SDH and nothing</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; changes</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt; conceptually for OTN.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Cascaded hierarchical LSPs are something new regardless o=
f how</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; the</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; intermediate swi=
tching stage LSPs are established, and the network</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; management plane would neither understand nor care how the</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage LSPs are e=
stablished. &nbsp;In the data plane the two</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; meth=
ods produce identical results</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]]Well, SDH works with cascaded LSP=
s since a long time. (VC2,</tt><br><tt>&gt; VC3</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
and VC4 are nothing else then cascaded LSPs). So in transport</tt><br><tt>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; technology the concepts are not really new. Transport NMS are=
 also</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-technology (they support PDH,WDM etc=
... managing them with</tt><br><tt>&gt; SDH</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; as</tt><b=
r><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; a whole).</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =
JD: &nbsp;Let me try again. &nbsp;Our new construct is what I am terming a<=
/tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; 'stacked hierarchical LSP' which consists of a contai=
ning</tt><br><tt>&gt; hierarchical</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; LSP (the ODUk tran=
sport LSP) and a set of one or more intermediate</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; swit=
ching stage LSPs, where the endpoints of both the containing</tt><br><tt>&g=
t; &gt; hierarchical LSP and the intermediate switching stage LSPs are</tt>=
<br><tt>&gt; &gt; congruent.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; It=
 is congruency that is new, and as I indicated above, I have a few</tt><br>=
<tt>&gt; &gt; concerns about it.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; JD: &nbsp;I re-checked my list of five points and I don't see any</t=
t><br><tt>&gt; &gt; dependency</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; in them on the me=
thod used to establish the intermediate switching</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; stage LSPs</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; [[PG]] I=
f I have well understood, if point 1 to 5 are satisfied</tt><br><tt>&gt; th=
en</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-stage label can be applied. What I inte=
nded is that with H-</tt><br><tt>&gt; LSPs</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; there=
 is no need to perform any check because they can be applied</tt><br><tt>&g=
t; in</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; &gt; any condition.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><=
br><tt>&gt; &gt; JD: &nbsp;Points 1 - 5 apply to 'stacked hierarchical LSPs=
' and not to</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; multi-stage labels.</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt=
; _______________________________________________</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; CCA=
MP mailing list</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; CCAMP@ietf.org</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><=
tt>&gt; &gt;</tt><br><tt>&gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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<tt>&gt; &gt; The information contained in this message may be privileged</=
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 please notify us immediately by replying to the message and</tt><br><tt>&g=
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : GMPLS RSVP-TE extensions for OAM Configuration
	Author(s)       : Attila Takacs
                          Don Fedyk
                          Jia He
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-06.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2011-07-11

   OAM is an integral part of transport connections, hence it is
   required that OAM functions are activated/deactivated in sync with
   connection commissioning/decommissioning; avoiding spurious alarms
   and ensuring consistent operation.  In certain technologies OAM
   entities are inherently established once the connection is set up,
   while other technologies require extra configuration to establish and
   configure OAM entities.  This document specifies extensions to
   RSVP-TE to support the establishment and configuration of OAM
   entities along with LSP signaling.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-=
06.txt

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6.txt

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Mon Jul 11 06:41:10 2011
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : GMPLS RSVP-TE Extensions for Ethernet OAM Configuration
	Author(s)       : Attila Takacs
                          Balazs Gero
                          Hao Long
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-eth-oam-ext-06.txt
	Pages           : 20
	Date            : 2011-07-11

   The GMPLS controlled Ethernet Label Switching (GELS) work extended
   GMPLS RSVP-TE to support the establishment of Ethernet LSPs.  IEEE
   Ethernet Connectivity Fault Management (CFM) specifies an adjunct OAM
   flow to check connectivity in Ethernet networks.  CFM can be also
   used with Ethernet LSPs for fault detection and triggering recovery
   mechanisms.  The ITU-T Y.1731 specification builds on CFM and
   specifies additional OAM mechanisms, including Performance
   Monitoring, for Ethernet networks.  This document specifies
   extensions of GMPLS RSVP-TE to support the setup of the associated
   Ethernet OAM (CFM and Y.1731) entities defining Ethernet technology
   specific TLV based on [OAM-CONF-FWK].



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txt

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Hi CCAMPer's,

Following the previous exchanges,
please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04

Best regards to all,

Pierre

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--_002_CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694CC1DFRMRSSXCHMBSA_--

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Mon Jul 11 10:18:40 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Configuration of Pro-Active Operations, Administration, =
and Maintenance (OAM) Functions for MPLS-based Transport Networks using RSV=
P-TE
	Author(s)       : Elisa Bellagamba
                          Loa Andersson
                          Pontus Skoldstrom
                          Dave Ward
                          Attila Takacs
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-06.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2011-07-11

   This specification describes the configuration of pro-active MPLS-TP
   Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) Functions for a
   given LSP using a set of TLVs that are carried by the RSVP-TE
   protocol.

   This document is a product of a joint Internet Engineering Task Force
   (IETF) / International Telecommunication Union Telecommunication
   Standardization Sector (ITU-T) effort to include an MPLS Transport
   Profile within the IETF MPLS and PWE3 architectures to support the
   capabilities and functionalities of a packet transport network.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ex=
t-06.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext=
-06.txt

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Mon Jul 11 23:02:59 2011
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From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John,

=20

> You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP

> independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,

> reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from =
the

> top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

=20

JD:  Certainly not

=20

[Fatai] This answer means that "You" don't really want to delete, =
reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the =
top -of-the-stack LSP, but it does not mean that the operators don't =
want to do that, moreover, "You" should not force the operators to do as =
what "you" want (ie., we could provide the options to the operators, but =
we should not force the operators to do something), because it will =
overthrow the architecture of transport networks and the operators' =
habit to manage the transport networks.

=20

=20

=20

Thanks

=20

Fatai

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5 19:04
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

=20

Igor,

=20

Comments inline.

=20

Thanks,

=20

John

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:23 AM

> To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> John,

>=20

> You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP

> independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,

> reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from =
the

> top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

=20

JD:  Certainly not

=20

>=20

> You also said:

> The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent =
signaling

> of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.

>=20

> This could be done via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the

> ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.

=20

JD:  We need to specify which ODU2 we are referencing in order to =
perform call admission control of the subsequent ODU1s and to set-up the =
data plane correctly

=20

>=20

> Igor

>=20

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]

> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM

> To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Hi John,

>=20

> What is the answer to Igor's question?

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Thanks

>=20

> Fatai

>=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

> Of Igor Bryskin

> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5 23:23

> To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> John,

>=20

> You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP

> independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,

> reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from =
the

> top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

>=20

> You also said:

> The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent =
signaling

> of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.

>=20

> This could be done via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the

> ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.

>=20

> Igor

>=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:09 AM

> To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Igor,

>=20

> If we have, for example, a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is

> being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, then with multi-stage labels,

> an intermediate stage switching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part

> of the signaling of the first ODU1.  The ODU2 has capacity for

> additional ODU1s and the subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can

> reference that ODU2.

>=20

> I have email from you agreeing with this which I can trot out if

> necessary 8->.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

>=20

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:02 AM

> > To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> > Cc: CCAMP

> > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> >

> > John,

> >

> > You said:

> >

> > JD:  A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also

> > created in the control plane and can be referenced by subsequent =
ODUj

> > signaling requests.

> >

> > What do you need the control plane state for?

> >

> > Igor

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On

> Behalf

> > Of John E Drake

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:47 AM

> > To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> > Cc: CCAMP

> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> >

> > Jonathan,

> >

> > Comments inline.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > John

> >

> >

> > Sent from my iPhone

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]

> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:26 AM

> > > To: John E Drake; Lou Berger

> > > Cc: CCAMP

> > > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > John,

> > >

> > > This seems ambiguous depending on the scope of the term "LSP".

> This

> > > can refer to a dataplane construct or to a control plane =
construct.

> >

> > JD:  Doesn't the term LSP typically refer to both aspects?

> > >

> > > I assume you mean "The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically

> creates

> > > the lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it in addition to the

> > service

> > > LSP.

> >

> > JD:  A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also

> > created in the control plane and can be referenced by subsequent =
ODUj

> > signaling requests.

> >

> > > This is all done without additional signaling sessions for the

> > > lower-layer dataplane LSP."

> >

> > JD:  This is accomplished without explicit signaling of the

> > intermediate stage switching LSPs?

> >

> > >

> > > Can you validate the above statement?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Jonathan Sadler

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On

> > Behalf

> > > Of John E Drake

> > > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58 PM

> > > To: Lou Berger

> > > Cc: CCAMP

> > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically creates the

> intermediate

> > > switching stage LSPs necessary to support it within the containing

> > > hierarchical ODUk LSP'

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPhone

> > >

> > > On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

> > >

> > > > John,

> > > >        I think all understand that the question relates to if

> there

> > > > is a

> > > > requirement to support signaling multiple stages in a single =
LSP.

> > > >

> > > >> What do I need to write to make this clear?

> > > >

> > > > If you disagree, please rephrase as you think is sufficient to

> make

> > > > the

> > > > question clear.

> > > >

> > > > Lou

> > > >

> > > > On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake wrote:

> > > >> Lou,

> > > >>

> > > >> As I think I have written at least two or three times over the

> > past

> > > >> day or so, I don't think the requirement as originally written

> or

> > as

> > > >> revised is useful because both or the two methods under

> discussion

> > > >> will meet it.

> > > >>

> > > >> What do I need to write to make this clear?

> > > >>

> > > >> Thanks,

> > > >>

> > > >> John

> > > >>

> > > >> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>

> > > >> On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>

> > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>> So John,

> > > >>>       From my list:

> > > >>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)

> > > >>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)

> > > >>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)

> > > >>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)

> > > >>> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Are you a "yes" in 2C or 2D?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Lou

> > > >>>

> > > >>> PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...

> > > >>>

> > > >>> On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how

> > about

> > > >>>> using 'intermediate switching stage

> > > >>>> LSP'?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second

> > paragraph.

> > > >>>> I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method,

> > > >>>> either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to

> > > establish

> > > >>>> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no

> > > >>>> reason to support both.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang"

> > > <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com

> > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> If not, I would like to step further to make something

> explicit.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough

> > resource

> > > >>>> on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or

> if

> > > >>>> Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3

> > > termination,

> > > >>>> how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Could you explain a little more?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>

> > > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor

> > > Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com

> > > >>>>> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> > > VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>

> > > >>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list =
in

> > > >>>> response to Pietro=E2=80=99s email.  I think it also =
addresses the

> > points

> > > >>>> in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line

> > analys

> > > >>>> is of it by you.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]

> > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> OK, Let=E2=80=99s converge.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be

> used

> > > for

> > > >>>> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this =
example

> > > >>>> below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single =
stage

> > > >>>> muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create

> ODU2

> > FA

> > > >>>> LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For

> > these

> > > >>>> two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think

> > you

> > > >>>> can understand that these two ways are better and more

> efficient

> > > >>>> than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-

> LSP).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema]

> to

> > > >>>> give the flexibility for the people to choose what they =
prefer

> > for

> > > >>>> multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or

> > > >>>> multi-

> > > >>>> stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect

> > unified

> > > >>>> solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose

> > this

> > > >>>> approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels,

> they

> > > can

> > > >>>> just choose single stage + H-LSP.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 12:13

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, =
PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on

> > links,

> > > >>>> in which case the =E2=80=98containing hierarchical =
LSP=E2=80=99 is the link=E2=80=99s

> > > >>>> OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling

> > multipl

> > > >>>> e one hop sub-layer LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case,

> > > because

> > > >>>> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the

> network

> > in

> > > >>>> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage

> > > >>>> hierarchical LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 11:37

> > > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Comments inline.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created =
directly

> > by

> > > >>>> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3

> > before

> > > >>>> ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 =
(FA)

> > is

> > > >>>> already there.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an

> email

> > I

> > > >>>> sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that

> > you

> > > >>>> create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it

> to

> > > >>>> establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer =
LSPs

> > as

> > > >>>> needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one =
of

> > the

> > > >>>> two proposals being discussed.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your

> > thought.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is

> > still

> > > >>>> H-LSP concept there.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B

> holds

> > > >>>> it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,

> and

> > > >>>> then *either*

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then

> sends

> > > >>>> the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the =
multi-

> > > stage

> > > >>>> label for the ODU2 LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be

> > > >>>> regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between

> one-

> > > hop

> > > >>>> FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as

> one-

> > > hop

> > > >>>> scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this

> > > >>>> sentence that we are trying to make you understood many

> times).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didn=E2=80=99t =
think mul

> > > >>>> ti-st

> > > >>>> age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, =
and

> > tha

> > > >>>> t I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop

> > multis

> > > >>>> tage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing

> > hiera

> > > >>>> rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this

> example,

> > > why

> > > >>>> it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not

> > just

> > > >>>> use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please

> review

> > > >>>> our slides again to get more information about cons of multi-

> > stage

> > > >>>> muxing(slide 5).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your

> > figure

> > > I

> > > >>>> had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we =
had

> > an

> > > >>>> interesting scenario to discuss.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 23:39

> > > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 =
between n

> > > >>>> ode B

> > > >>>> and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using

> the

> > s

> > > >>>> ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-

> layer

> > OD

> > > >>>> U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.

> > Wit

> > > >>>> h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an

> > ODU2

> > > >>>> multi-stage label.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with

> some

> > > >>>> non-

> > > >>>> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage

> > > labels,

> > > >>>> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isn=E2=80=99t =
enough

> > > >>>> diffe

> > > >>>> rence between the two approaches to warrant standardizing

> both.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some

> > improper

> > > >>>> wording. Let=E2=80=99s discuss tech.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a

> simple

> > > >>>> example shown below.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A =
to

> > > Node

> > > >>>> E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g.,

> > traffic

> > > >>>> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv

> > message?

> > > >>>> What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the =
Path

> > or

> > > >>>> Resv message?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> <image001.png>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> > > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org

> > > >>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> > > >>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 6:12

> > > >>>> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>> Cc: CCAMP

> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Igor,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I have a few clarifications.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop

> > > hierarchical

> > > >>>> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to

> understand.)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just

> works

> > > >>>> for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports

> multi-

> > > >>>> stage switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical

> > LSPs,

> > > >>>> the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs

> > > which

> > > >>>> provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the

> same

> > > two

> > > >>>> endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost

> > certainly

> > > >>>> details to be worked out.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I

> > would

> > > >>>> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cc: CCAMP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Hi Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he

> keeps

> > > >>>>> saying

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information

> pertinent

> > > to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does

> > seem

> > > >>>>> stupid

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is

> > > >>>>> sufficient a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create

> and

> > > >>>>> support

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart

> > implications,

> > > >>>>> etc.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as

> > identification

> > > >>>>> of a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the

> > GMPLS

> > > >>>>> god-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to

> > > >>>>> control the

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate

> multi-

> > > >>>>> stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to

> do

> > > so.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cheers,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Igor

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> > > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org

> > > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> > > >>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cc: CCAMP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Hello John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of

> > > >>>>> private

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people.

> > This

> > > >>>>> is

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> impolite and unprofessional.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four

> > > >>>>> threads

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to

> > > >>>>> follow for

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning.

> > > >>>>> Moreover,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already

> > > >>>>> started in

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> the mailing list.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and

> > > >>>>> deliberate

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical

> > > >>>>> motivation as

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> reported in your mails and snipped below:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical

> > LSP,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it =
is

> > not

> > > >>>>> even

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> wrong."

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and

> > > found

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> them, shall we say, lacking."

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued =
from

> a

> > > >>>>> purely

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> technical point of view.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like

> an

> > > >>>>> hour.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a

> > minute.

> > > >>>>> That's

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> relativity.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> (A. Einstein)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> > > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org

> > > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> > > >>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Of John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.13

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: CCAMP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;

> > > >>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>> ; Ciena -

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok

> Kunjidhapatham;

> > > >>>>> BELOTTI,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele

> > Ceccarelli

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Comments inline.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > >>>>>> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;

> > > >>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> ; Ciena -

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok

> Kunjidhapatham;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> BELOTTI,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele

> > Ceccarelli

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> JD:  I will let this pass.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,

> > > >>>>>> establish

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the

> issues

> > > >>>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan

> mentioned

> > > >>>>>> (eg.,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> OAM/protection issues).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I =
don't

> > > >>>>> think the

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels

> is

> > > >>>>> either

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was

> > > >>>>> addressing

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of

> establishing

> > > >>>>> multi-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the

> > > >>>>> issues

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than

> > blue

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two

> approaches

> > I

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the

> > same.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy

> > > >>>>>> must be

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label

> > > >>>>>> approach.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C

> and

> > D,

> > > >>>>>> but

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> B,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching,

> the

> > > HO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> ODUj

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between =
B

> > > >>>>>> and D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and =
there

> > are

> > > >>>>>> lots

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was

> > > simply

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve

> wrt

> > > >>>>> latency

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs

> > within

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> From: "John E Drake"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne

> > > t

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>> lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>> ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@

> > > ericsson.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Rajan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Rao"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> <<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Fatai Zhang"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@

> > > huawei.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Khuzema

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Pithewan"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan

> > > @infinera.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>> lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>;

> "Ashok

> > > >>>>>> Kunjidhapatham"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto:

> > > akunjidhapatham@infinera.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Diego Caviglia"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:di

> > > ego.caviglia@ericsson.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Steve Balls"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:S

> > > teve.Balls@metaswitch.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co

> > > m.cn

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.mar

> > > garia@nsn.com

> > > >>>>>>> ;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> "Li Dan"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.

> > > danli@huawei.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Jonathan Hardwick"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>> ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwic

> > > k@metaswitch.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:jo

> > > nathan.sadler@tellabs.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> <<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using

> > single-

> > > >>>>>> stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label

> > format,

> > > >>>>>> which

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> I

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP

> > establishment

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> using

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> single-stage muxing is done.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing

> > before

> > > >>>>>> so we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use

> > LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> explicitly

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information

> within

> > > the

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Path

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are

> established

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the

> > ODUj.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is =
more

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> efficient

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do

> > not

> > > >>>>>> want

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that

> we

> > > >>>>>> will

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then =
when

> a

> > > >>>>>> node

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how

> > > >>>>>> signaling is

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> be accomplished.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego

> > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Margaria;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level =
something

> > (H-

> > > >>>>>>> LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with

> > something

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> does not exist at all.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together

> with

> > > >>>>>>> NMS.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a =
multi-

> > > stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> label

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy

> > > >>>>>>> implementation

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> consequences.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label =
approach

> > can

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> only

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> be

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage

> > muxing)

> > > >>>>>>> and

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> it

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides

> that

> > > >>>>>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> sent a few days ago.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-

> > stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> label

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems

> like

> > an

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> hour.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a

> > > minute.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> That's

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> relativity.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> (A. Einstein)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego

> > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Margaria;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises =
multistage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> switching

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the

> > same

> > > >>>>>>> LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems

> > ill-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of

> > > signaling

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> (PIETRO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > >

> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hello John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in

> > > >>>>>>> routing

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multi-stage label is supported.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I do not agree with this statement.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are

> > > >>>>>>> possible

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> (and

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what

> is

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> supported.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: venerd=C3=AC 17 giugno 2011 2.09

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele

> > > >>>>>>> Ceccarelli;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO

> > > >>>>>>> (SERGIO);

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; =
'Ciena

> -

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Lyndon

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use =
a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> different

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This

> > means

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type,

> and

> > > >>>>>>> I am

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> proposing that we use multistage.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai

> Zhang;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Khuzema

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;

> > Diego

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hi all,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is

> > > >>>>>>> implicit

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> and

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine

> > > >>>>>>> explicitly

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> declares the support.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>>> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > >

> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems

> like

> > an

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> hour.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a

> > > minute.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> That's

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> relativity.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> (A. Einstein)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 15.48

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> BELOTTI,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO

> > VITTORIO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> (PIETRO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon

> > Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to

> > > >>>>>>> support

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i

> believe

> > > >>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> as

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly =
been

> > > told

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> not

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi =
stage

> > > only

> > > >>>>>>> or

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover

> > backward

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> compatibility issues somehow.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> BR

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Daniele

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 8.53

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego

> > > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> 'Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support

> > for

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Rajan,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much

> > > >>>>>>> preferred

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage

> > > >>>>>>> labels.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical

> > LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego

> > > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> 'Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support

> > for

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hi,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support

> required

> > in

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> link

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and

> > > >>>>>>> single-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to

> > indicate

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> what

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the

> issues

> > > we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> have

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation

> involving

> > > NEs

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> with

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Rajan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> =
CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> =
CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailm

> > > an/listinfo/ccamp

> > > >>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org

> > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > CCAMP mailing list

> > > CCAMP@ietf.org

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > >

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The information contained in this message may be privileged

> > > and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader

> > > of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee

> > > or agent responsible for delivering this message to the

> > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,

> > > dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly

> > > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,

> > > please notify us immediately by replying to the message and

> > > deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > _______________________________________________

> > CCAMP mailing list

> > CCAMP@ietf.org

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> _______________________________________________

> CCAMP mailing list

> CCAMP@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

>=20

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intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>JD:=C2=A0 Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#005BD3'>[Fatai] This answer means that =
&quot;You&quot; don't really want to delete, reroute, restore, etc. =
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the top -of-the-stack LSP, =
but it does not mean that the operators don't want to do that, moreover, =
&quot;You&quot; should not force the operators to do as what =
&quot;you&quot; want (ie., we could provide the options to the =
operators, but we should not force the operators to do something), =
because it will overthrow the architecture of transport networks and the =
operators' habit to manage the transport =
networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>7</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>11</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 19:04<br>To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, =
Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>Cc: 'CCAMP'<br>Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Comments =
inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, =
2011 8:23 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You need control state for =
an LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; independently from other =
LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. =
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>JD:=C2=A0 Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You also =
said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the =
subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that =
ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; This could be done via =
suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its =
data plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>JD:=C2=A0 We need to specify =
which ODU2 we are referencing in order to perform call admission control =
of the subsequent ODU1s and to set-up the data plane =
correctly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 =
11:37 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler, Jonathan =
B.'; 'Lou Berger'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; What is the answer to =
Igor's question?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Of Igor =
Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>7</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 23:23<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You need control state for =
an LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; independently from other =
LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. =
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You also =
said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the =
subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that =
ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; This could be done via =
suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its =
data plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, =
2011 11:09 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; If we have, for example, a =
containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; being used to switch ODU1s =
via an ODU2, then with multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; an intermediate stage =
switching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; of the signaling of the =
first ODU1.=C2=A0 The ODU2 has capacity for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; additional ODU1s and the =
subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reference that =
ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; I have email from you =
agreeing with this which I can trot out if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; necessary =
8-&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July =
06, 2011 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; You said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:=C2=A0 A set of one or more intermediate stage =
switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; created in the control =
plane and can be referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; signaling =
requests.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; What do you need the =
control plane state for?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July =
06, 2011 10:47 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Sadler, Jonathan B. =
[mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, =
July 06, 2011 7:26 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; This seems ambiguous depending on the scope =
of the term &quot;LSP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; can refer to a dataplane construct or to a =
control plane construct.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:=C2=A0 Doesn't the term LSP typically refer to =
both aspects?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; I assume you mean =
&quot;The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
creates<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; the lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it =
in addition to the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; service<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:=C2=A0 A set of one =
or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are =
also<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can be =
referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; signaling =
requests.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is all done =
without additional signaling sessions for the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; lower-layer =
dataplane LSP.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:=C2=A0 This is =
accomplished without explicit signaling of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; intermediate stage =
switching LSPs?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can you validate the above =
statement?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan =
Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Sunday, =
July 03, 2011 12:58 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: =
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically =
creates the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; intermediate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage =
LSPs necessary to support it within the =
containing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical ODUk =
LSP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jul 3, 2011, =
at 1:40 PM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think all understand =
that the question relates to if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
there<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; requirement =
to support signaling multiple stages in a single =
LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do =
I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you disagree, please rephrase as you =
think is sufficient to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
make<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; question =
clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Lou<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As I think I have written at least =
two or three times over the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
past<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; day or so, I don't think the =
requirement as originally written<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; revised is useful because both or the two methods =
under<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; will =
meet it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do =
I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On Jul =
3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; =
&lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; So =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 From my =
list:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel =
free to elaborate)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2A) A real requirement? =
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2B) A complete non-goal? =
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2C) Useful, if can find a =
reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2D) =
Just don't care? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Are you a &quot;yes&quot; in 2C =
or 2D?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; =
Lou<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; PS I =
think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E =
Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', =
how<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; about<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using 'intermediate =
switching stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
LSP'?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To answer your question, I don't agree with your =
second<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; paragraph.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one =
method,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either sequential Path =
messages or multi-stage labels, to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
establish<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; intermediate switching =
stage LSPs, but not both.=C2=A0 There is no<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
reason to support both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai =
Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email =
below?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
If not, I would like to step further to make =
something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; explicit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let's continue this example =
below. If there is no enough<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
resource<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on link BC or CD (or both =
of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support =
ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; termination,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage =
labels?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Could you explain a little more?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message =
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: Fatai Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt; ; =
'Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Bryskin'&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP=C2=A0 mailing list =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; response to Pietro</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s =
email.=C2=A0 I think it also addresses the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
points<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in your email, below, and I =
would appreciate a line-by-line<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
analys<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is of it by =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
OK, Let</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s =
converge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
used<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
some cases rather than universal cases.=C2=A0 Based on this =
example<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; below, we can create ODU3 =
FA LSP and then use one single stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
muxing (ie., ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to =
create<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
FA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP and then use one single stage muxing =
(ODU0-&gt;ODU2).=C2=A0 For<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
these<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two ways, there is no need =
to use multi-stage labels. I think<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
you<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can understand that these two ways are better =
and more<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
than your approach (two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 =
FA-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- =
Khuzema]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; give the flexibility for =
the people to choose what they prefer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single =
stage + H-LSP) or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage labels in some cases. =
We have figured out a perfect<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
unified<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solution. If people like =
multi-stage labels, they can choose<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
this<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach to use. If people =
do not like multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
they<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
just choose single stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 12:13<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Fatai =
Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I had one clarification.=C2=A0 Multi-stage labels can be used =
on<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; links,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in which case the =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=98</span><span lang=3DEN-US>containing hierarchical =
LSP</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US> is the link</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OUDk/OTUk, and they would =
be more efficient than signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
multipl<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e one hop sub-layer =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common =
case,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; because<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
inherently less scalable than having multi-hop =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchical =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 11:37<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor =
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
So, you admit that ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created =
directly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; by<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical =
ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 =
(FA)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
already there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:=C2=A0 Absolutely.=C2=A0 I think I actually stipulated this in =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
email<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
sent you and others some months back.=C2=A0 The basic idea is =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
create the containing hierarchical=C2=A0 LSP first and then use =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish=C2=A0 OUDj client=C2=A0 LSPs and =
their required sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being =
established using one of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two proposals being =
discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
A few points for clarification, even though I follow =
your<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How to create the ODU3 FA =
before ODU0 request? I think it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
still<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; H-LSP concept =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:=C2=A0 Absolutely.=C2=A0 If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, =
B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
holds<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it, establishes the ODU3 =
containing hierarchical LSP to D,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
then *either*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
1)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling =
D and then<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; sends<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
2)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along =
with the multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 FA between B and D =
is already there, the FA should be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference =
between<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should =
be treated as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay =
attention to this<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sentence that we are trying =
to make you understood many<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
times).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:=C2=A0 I told Sergio and you=C2=A0 last week that I didn</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t think mul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ti-st<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; age labels for links (one =
hop) were interesting or useful, and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
tha<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t I only considered them useful in the =
context of multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; multis<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
tage hierarchical LSPs.=C2=A0 The signaling within the =
containing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; hiera<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one =
hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on =
this<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; example,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
why<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it needs to use two stage muxing =
(ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
just<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; use the simple one stage =
muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?=C2=A0 Please<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
review<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; our slides again to get =
more information about cons of multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing(slide =
5).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:=C2=A0 You could, if that branch is also supported.=C2=A0 In =
your<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; figure<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; had mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 =
branch so that we had<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
interesting scenario to discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>29</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 23:39<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor =
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Let</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s assume we have a containing =
hierarchical ODU3 between n<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ode B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and node D over which we =
want to establish and ODU0.=C2=A0 Using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
s<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would =
signal a sub-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; layer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
OD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then =
signal the ODU0.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Wit<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work =
with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; some<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
non-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero amount of effort, but =
my preference is for multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; strictly from an efficiency =
perspective.=C2=A0 There isn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
enough<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
diffe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rence between the two =
approaches to warrant standardizing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was =
some<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; improper<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wording. Let</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s discuss =
tech.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
simple<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example shown =
below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; Node<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E by multi-stage labels =
approach? What information (e.g.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
traffic<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; parameters, labels) should =
be carried in the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
message?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What action should be taken =
for Node C when receiving the Path<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Resv message?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;image001.png&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf Of John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>29</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 6:12<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)=C2=A0 Multi-stage labels =
apply equally well to multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs. (The is the point =
some people do not seem to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
understand.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
2)=C2=A0 It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, =
just<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; works<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that =
supports<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stage switching.=C2=A0 This involves a nested set of =
hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; LSPs,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer =
LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; which<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
provide context for intermediate stage labels, between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
same<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; two<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
endpoints.=C2=A0 This is a new construct and there are =
almost<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; certainly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
details to be worked out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3)=C2=A0 I don't think we =
should standardize both approaches.=C2=A0 I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
would<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prefer that the working =
group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, =
2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John =
E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, =
what he<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; keeps<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; saying<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; repeatedly in this =
discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The point of CP =
signaling is to convey information<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
pertinent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network element =
provisioning in most efficient way. It does<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
seem<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stupid<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when =
it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sufficient =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single end-to-end round of signaling to do the =
job), create<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; numerous extra CP states, take care of all =
restart<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; implications,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just to be consistent =
with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Besides, you can =
think of multi-stage label as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
identification<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. =
Even the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; god-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fathers would agree =
that they never meant to limit GMPLS to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; control the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; resources described in =
early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot =
orchestrate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provisioning through =
the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; do<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: =
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) You have forwarded =
to the CCamp mailing list a number of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; private<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mails without asking =
the permission to the involved people.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impolite and =
unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list =
forwarding four<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
threads<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and very =
complicated to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; follow =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; people not involved in the discussion since the =
beginning.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Moreover,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this happened after a discussion from scratch was =
already<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; started =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) You moved from a =
technical discussion to arrogant and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deliberate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personal offenses not =
supported by any sound technical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; motivation as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported in your mails =
and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;This shows a complete lack of understanding =
of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labels, and =
GMPLS in general.=C2=A0 It is so bad it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot; It might be more precise to say I reviewed =
your slides and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; found<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them, shall we say, =
lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We hope that from now on the discussion can be =
continued from<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
purely<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio and =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate =
(Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a hot =
stove for a minute, and it seems like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl =
for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: =
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
marted</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 28 giugno 2011 =
14.13<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan =
Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - =
Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve =
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); =
John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve =
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); =
Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I guess that you =
did not review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:=C2=A0 I will let =
this pass.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You just see the =
only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-layers LSP =
concurrently), but you did not see the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described in the =
slides and the issues that Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
mentioned<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
(eg.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OAM/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:=C2=A0 I'm sorry =
that I didn't provide enough context.=C2=A0 I =
don't<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; think =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o =
multi-stage labels<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
either<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting or common and it was not the case to =
which I was<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
addressing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; my comments.=C2=A0 Rather, I was describing two =
ways of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; establishing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hop multi-stage =
hierarchical LSPs.=C2=A0 As far as I can tell =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan raised in this =
context are red herrings rather than<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
blue<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whales.=C2=A0 Furthermore, regardless of which of =
the two<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; approaches<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described is used, the issues, if any, would be =
exactly the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we =
have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; must be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in many cases, =
even though we have multi-stage label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E.g., an ODU0 =
connection request from A to E through B, C<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
D,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; but<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
B,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C and=C2=A0 D (or one of them ) can not support =
ODU0 switching,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; HO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be =
created between B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and =
D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through LSP hierarchy. This example is very =
simple and there<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lots<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of transforms for =
this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:=C2=A0 Please see =
above.=C2=A0 I completely agree with you and was<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
simply<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to =
improve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; wrt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
latency<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and control plane overhead, the establishment of =
ODUj LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message =
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &quot;John E =
Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.ne<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; t<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele =
Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccare=
lli@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infi=
nera.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; =
&quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:z=
hangfatai@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;mailto=
:kpithewan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; @infinera.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO =
(SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mai=
lto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Diego =
Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&lt;mailt=
o:di<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
ego.caviglia@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Steve =
Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&l=
t;mailto:S<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
teve.Balls@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.c=
om<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xi=
hua@zte.co<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; m.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;NSN - Cyril =
Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto=
:cyril.mar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; garia@nsn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Li =
Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@huawei.com&lt;mail=
to:huawei.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; danli@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Jonathan =
Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Har=
dwic<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; k@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan =
Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&lt;mailt=
o:jo<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
nathan.sadler@tellabs.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@jun=
iper.net<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If we are talking =
about the establishment of LSPs using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
single-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a =
new label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; format,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., =
LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; establishment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-stage muxing =
is done.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have never had a =
situation such as multi-stage muxing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
before<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are breaking new ground and we have two =
choices, either use<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy to =
establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer =
information<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; message for the =
ODUj such that the sub-layers are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
established<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicitly and concurrently with the =
establishment of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; ODUj.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Either will work, =
but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
efficient<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.=C2=A0 =
The one thing I do<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; do is to say that both are supported.=C2=A0 If =
we can agree that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only use one method to establish multi-stage =
LSPs, then when<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
node<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertises multi-stage support in routing, we =
know how<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; signaling =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be =
accomplished.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, =
June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO =
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - =
Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems as =
though you consider on the same level something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
(H-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concept) =
already used in CP managing multi-layer with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; does not exist =
at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Operators are used to managed their CP =
network together<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; NMS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Most of the NMS =
work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; would force NMS =
to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implementation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We should also =
keep in mind that multi-stage label approach<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in some cases (not for all the one-hop =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; muxing)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will bring some management issues. Please =
see the slides<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent a few days =
ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For both these =
reasons the &quot;optional&quot; condition of =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for =
us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio, =
Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate =
(Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 =
4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand =
on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it =
seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: sabato 18 =
giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai =
Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We can =
certainly say that a node that advertises =
multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support in =
routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I said =
before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
same<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints to establish intermediate =
switching stages seems<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
ill-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; considered and forcing everyone to support =
two ways of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multistage LSPs =
seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 17, =
2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)&quot; =
&lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I understand =
that you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should also =
convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
label is supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not agree =
with this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Implementations using H-LSPs plus single =
stage labels are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
possible<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; already =
standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new =
switching type is not enough to clearly tell =
what<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
venerd</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 17 giugno 2011 =
2.09<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO); Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; =
BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
(SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; =
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ong'; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Actually we are =
already covered.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Our advertisements use =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching type, =
which is also carried in signaling.=C2=A0 This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
means<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; get to define the signaling used for this =
switching type,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I =
am<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposing that we use =
multistage.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan =
Rao; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Zhang;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Caviglia; =
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I=C2=A0 agree =
with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in my mind this =
means that single stage label support is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicit<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
labels should not be used unless a machine<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; declares the =
support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate =
(Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 =
4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: =
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand =
on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it =
seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Daniele =
Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
gioved</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 =
15.48<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; =
Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO =
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO); =
Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Starting a new =
thread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Assuming we =
still have not decided whether we're going to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single stage =
only, multi stage only or both of them i<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
believe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; per OSPF we =
need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An =
implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly =
been<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; told<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deprecate) is =
single stage based, so in case of multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage + single stage we should be =
able to cover<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; backward<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; compatibility =
issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
gioved</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 =
8.53<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai =
Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
'Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF =
draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage Vs Single Stage =
labels)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I didn't want =
to allow interoperability options.=C2=A0 I much<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; preferred<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; say that we do signaling in one way only, =
using multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
labels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; These are also needed for signaling =
within=C2=A0 hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Rajan Rao =
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
'Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF =
draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage Vs Single Stage =
labels)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; While we are =
making updates, let us discuss support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
link<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertisement for single/multi-stage label =
options:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Given that =
there is interest in both multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
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lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion =
of a FLAG to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; indicate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
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lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the link is capable of.=C2=A0 This will =
address some of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; have<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussed in =
the past relating to path computation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
involving<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; NEs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different capabilities =
(inter-op).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing =
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class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; =
CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; =
CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
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&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
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lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
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class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailm<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:25:11 +0200
Thread-Topic: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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--_000_B5630A95D803744A81C51AD4040A6DAA0A304CE6F8ESESSCMS0360e_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18457" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Hi=20
Xihua,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>the=20
case you are considering is a quite a simple scenario and there would be no=
=20
issue in having the two hierarchies adverties into the same SCSI, but there=
 are=20
some "unlucky" cases in which bundling component links with dissimilar=20
hierarchies could cause ambiguities.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Let's=20
try to analize one of them. Suppose to have the following hierarchies suppo=
rted=20
(quite similar to the one present in the -06 version of the=20
draft)</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; TEXT-TRANSFORM:=
 none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA=
CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bor=
der-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-=
text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px"><PRE style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Component Link#=
1      Component Link#2   =20
      <SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011>  </SPAN> ODU0             <SPAN cla=
ss=3D780071310-12072011>    </SPAN> ODU0           =20
          |                     |                 =20
         ODU3                  ODU3               =20
          |                     |                 =20
         ODU4                  ODU4</PRE></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>We=20
said that the advertisement of intermediate layers bandwidth is required in=
=20
order to know how many FA can be set up. In this case, the advertisement of=
 both=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 and </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011></SPAN><SPAN class=3D780071310-120720=
11><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>ODU3-&gt;ODU4 </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>available bandwidth is performed so to know how many ODU3 FA can b=
e=20
setup. In the case above it is possible to advertise the 2 component links =
into=20
the same SCSI.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>On the=20
other side, if you have to bundle the 3 component links in the following, t=
here=20
could be an ambiguity:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><PRE style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Component Link#=
1      Component Link#2     Component Link#3
      <SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011>  </SPAN> ODU0             <SPAN cla=
ss=3D780071310-12072011>    </SPAN> ODU0           =20
          |                     |                  ODU3
         ODU3                  ODU3                 |
          |                     |                  ODU4
         ODU4                  ODU4</PRE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Merging all the component links into the same SCSI would cause thi=
s type=20
of advertisement:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 and </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011></SPAN><SPAN class=3D780071310-120720=
11><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>ODU3-&gt;ODU4 </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>But in=20
this case it is not possible to know how many ODU3-&gt;ODU4 are availalbe f=
or=20
ODU3 FA set up (i.e. belonging to the ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy) and=
 how=20
many simple ODU3 cannot be used for ODU0 transport (i.e. belonging to=20
ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>This=20
issue *does not* prevent to perform the bundling of the three component lin=
ks=20
and can be simply solved advertising component links #1 and #2 into an SCSI=
 and=20
component link #3 in a different one (all inside the same=20
ISCD).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>By the=20
way thaks a lot for the question, this clarification will be introduced int=
o the=20
next version of the draft.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>BR=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial=
=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
16.25<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Hi Daniele,</FONT> <BR><BR>=
<FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>One more question.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-=
serif=20
size=3D2>"</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp; &nbsp;The ISC=
D includes=20
a variable number of SCSI TLVs as described in the</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp; &nbsp;following sections. &nbsp;A single =
ISCD TLV=20
MAY be used for the</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;advertisement of unbundled or bundled links also with different</FONT=
>=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp; &nbsp;server layers. &nbsp;</FO=
NT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif color=3Dred size=3D2>A different SCSI TLV MUST be used fo=
r each=20
different</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif color=3Dred size=3D2>&nbsp; &n=
bsp;muxing=20
hierarchy</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2> (muxing tree in the follo=
wing=20
examples).</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>"</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>There two links among A, B and C. One link #1 su=
pports=20
ODU0-ODU2-ODU3. Another link #2 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU4.</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0/2/4 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4/2/0</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D2>&nbsp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; B &nbsp; &nb=
sp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp;| &nbsp; &nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>o--------=
-------o=20
&nbsp;X &nbsp;o--------------o &nbsp;X &nbsp;o--------------o &nbsp;X=20
&nbsp;o----------------o</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>&nbsp;=
 &nbsp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; A=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; o--------------o &nbsp;X &nbsp;o--------------o &nbsp;=
=20
&nbsp;C &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-seri=
f=20
size=3D2>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| &nbsp; &nbs=
p;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0/2/3 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp;3/2/0</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Although=
 we could=20
bundle them together, there must be two SCSIs to represent different hierar=
chy.=20
What benefit I could see is there is just one block for Max LSP bandwidth, =
SC,=20
ET and so on.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Another useca=
se is=20
that if we create two ODU 2 FA-LSP over link #1 and link #2 and make them a=
s a=20
TE Link, we could bundle them together based on the current OSPF extension =
in=20
this draft.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>In my opion, we cou=
ld use=20
one SCSI to represent ODU2 bundle link.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-se=
rif=20
size=3D2>Xihua </FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"35%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-07-07 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:40</FO=
NT> </P>
    <TD width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;,=20
            "danli@huawei.com" &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT>=20
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN dra=
fts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
      <TABLE>
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
          <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FO=
NT face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Xihua,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&n=
bsp;</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>given that the SCSI is mandato=
ry and not=20
optional, the info in the MAX LSP bandwdith fields is implicitely not enoug=
h for=20
the path computation :-)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>&nbsp;=
</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Thanks</FONT> <BR><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Daniele</FONT> <BR><BR>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
15.33<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> RE: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR><FO=
NT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Hi Daniele,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif si=
ze=3D3>=20
<BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>How about adding following =
sentence=20
into draft?</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=
=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>"If Encoding Type is G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) , information i=
n MAX=20
LSP bandwidth block is not enough for the patch computation. The SCSI must =
be=20
used. Implementation must not rely on MAX LSP bandwidth block"</FONT><FONT=
=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>Xihua</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR><BR><BR></FO=
NT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"28%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-07-07 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:18</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"71%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"5%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"94%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.=
com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
            </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;,=20
            "danli@huawei.com" &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT><FONT=20
            face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN dra=
fts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue s=
ize=3D2><BR>Hi=20
Xihua,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>in the end this message is an ISCD, so we must ke=
ep the=20
same format and same values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is present and must be f=
illed=20
as defined in RFC4203 (as written in the draft). Given that RFC 4203 just s=
ays=20
few words on "how to fill" that field, we just added few words to say it=20
explicitely.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DAr=
ial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>What's your suggestion?</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><BR>Thanks</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT fa=
ce=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Daniele</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR></FONT>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B><BR>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
13.01<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>HiDaniele,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=
 size=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>Thank you for your=20
clarification.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D=
sans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>We know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this =
draft.=20
<BR>If it doesn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter wit=
h how=20
to standardize it in this draft.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>Xihua</FONT><FONT face=3Dsa=
ns-serif=20
size=3D3> <BR><BR></FONT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"28%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-07-07 =CF=C2=CE=E7 06:14</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"71%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"5%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"94%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"fu.xihua@zte.=
com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=
=3D3>=20
            </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&g=
t;,=20
            "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;,=20
            "danli@huawei.com" &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT><FONT=20
            face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=
=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
      size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><BR><BR>Hi Xihua,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FO=
NT><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>for sure RFC4204 is not correct, giv=
en that it=20
is about LMP :-)</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT f=
ace=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>The draft defines a guideline on how to fill thos=
e fields.=20
RFC 4203 states that:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><F=
ONT=20
size=3D3><TT><BR>&nbsp;Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight =
4 octet=20
fields in<BR>the IEEE floating point format [</TT></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE"><FONT color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><TT><U>IEEE</U></TT></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3><TT>], with priority=
 0 first=20
and<BR>priority 7 last. &nbsp;The units are bytes (not bits!) per=20
second.</TT></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>and the MAX LSP field must be filled accordingly.=
 Given=20
that the OTN has a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the=
=20
"biggest" available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at different prior=
ities=20
can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth availabilities.</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=
=3D2><BR>You're=20
rigth when saying that this information is not enough for the PCE and the S=
CSI=20
must be used.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Thanks,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <=
/FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><BR>Daniele</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-seri=
f size=3D3>=20
<BR><BR></FONT>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> mercoled=A8=AC 6 luglio 2011=
=20
13.37<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [CCAMP] OSP=
F OTN=20
drafts merged</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR><BR>Hi=20
Daniele,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D2><BR><BR>One more comment.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=
=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>In section "4. &nbsp;ISCD forma=
t=20
extensions", &nbsp;it write:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT=
><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>"The MAX LSP bandwidth field is used accordi=
ngly to=20
RFC4204: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FON=
T=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Max LSP Bandwidth &lt;=3D ODUk/OTUk and inte=
rmediate=20
values are those on</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>the branch of OTN switching hierarchy suppor=
ted by=20
the interface.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D=
sans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX=
=20
LSP</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=
=20
size=3D2><BR>Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some =
others=20
etc. <BR>"</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans=
-serif=20
size=3D2><BR>In my understanding, there is no any standardized principle ab=
out how=20
to value this unit.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>It doesn't make any sense to path computatio=
n entity.=20
It has to rely on SCSI information.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3>=
=20
</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Is that right?</FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2><BR><BR>Xihua</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> <BR></FONT>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
  <TBODY>
  <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
    <TD width=3D"51%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Daniele Ceccarell=
i=20
      &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</B> <BR>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:=20
      &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
      <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>2011-06-27 =CF=C2=CE=E7 09:28</FO=
NT><FONT=20
      face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT></P>
    <TD width=3D"48%"><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"15%">
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=CA=D5=BC=
=FE=C8=CB</FONT></DIV>
          <TD width=3D"84%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>'CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> =
</FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=B3=AD=CB=
=CD</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3=
> </FONT>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD>
            <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>=D6=F7=CC=
=E2</FONT></DIV>
          <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
            merged</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
      size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"50%">
          <TD width=3D"50%"></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR><=
BR><BR>Hi=20
CCAMPers,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial=
=20
size=3D2><BR><BR>As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors =
of the=20
two competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been workin=
g=20
together and a merged document has been produced.</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-s=
erif=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR><BR>You can find the merge=
d ID at the=20
following link:</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=
=3Dsans-serif=20
color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR><BR></U></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.=
txt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><U>http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709=
-06.txt</U></FONT></A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR><BR>Comments =
and feedback=20
are appreciated</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=
=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR><BR>Thanks,</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3> </FONT><FO=
NT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>The authors</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D=
3>=20
<BR><BR><BR></FONT><IMG src=3D"cid:780071310@12072011-2CB7"><FONT face=3DAr=
ial=20
color=3D#333333 size=3D2><B><BR><BR>DANIELE CECCARELLI <BR>System &amp; Tec=
hnology -=20
DU IP &amp; Broadband</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#333=
333=20
size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333 size=3D2><BR><BR>Via L.=
Calda,=20
5<BR>Genova, Italy<BR>Phone +390106002512<BR>Mobile=20
+393346725750<BR>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-se=
rif=20
color=3Dblue size=3D3><U><BR></U></FONT><A href=3D"www.ericsson.com"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2><U>www.ericsson.com</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=
=20
color=3D#333333 size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif color=3Dblue=20
size=3D3><U><BR><BR><BR></U></FONT><A href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/"><IM=
G=20
src=3D"cid:780071310@12072011-2CBE"></A><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#333333=
=20
size=3D1><BR><BR>This Communication is Confidential. We only send and recei=
ve=20
email on the basis of the term set out at </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer"><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#333333=20
size=3D1><U>www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DAr=
ial=20
color=3D#333333 size=3D1> </FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2><TT><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>CCA=
MP=20
mailing=20
list<BR>CCAMP@ietf.org<BR>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</TT><=
/FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com  Tue Jul 12 04:56:31 2011
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From: Sidd Aanand <Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:42:22 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlin=
k=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Danielle,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regarding the MAX LSP BW field in the ISCD: While t=
his may not be enough information to compute a path, it might be useful in p=
runing the tree. That is, the path computation algorithm can have the multip=
lexing hierarchy details and in addition store the MAX LSP BW at each priori=
ty and discard those links that have max-lsp-bw less than the bw that I am l=
ooking for. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In other words, this represents the=
 maximum bandwidth an LSP can have on this link. This will be the maximum of=
 all maximums in the hierarchy, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sidd<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3D=
MsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.=
0%'><tr><td width=3D"35%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .7=
5pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@eric=
sson.com&gt;</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2011-07-07 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'> 09:40</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"64%" va=
lign=3Dtop style=3D'width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><table clas=
s=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:=
100.0%'><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td=
 valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;fu.x=
ihua@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td=
></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN st=
yle=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3D=
top style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ie=
tf.org&gt;, &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt=
;, &quot;danli@huawei.com&quot; &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</span> <o:p></o:p><=
/p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZ=
H-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td va=
lign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RE: RE: [CCAM=
P] OSPF OTN drafts merged</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cell=
padding=3D0><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><=
/td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></t=
able></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><=
br><br><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";=
color:blue'>Xihua,</span> <br><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif=
"'>&nbsp;</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif";color:blue'>given that the SCSI is mandatory and not optional, the=
 info in the MAX LSP bandwdith fields is implicitely not enough for the path=
 computation :-)</span> <br><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
>&nbsp;</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif";color:blue'>Thanks</span> <br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Daniele</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 widt=
h=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:=
12.0pt'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif"'> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><br>Sent:</b>=
 gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011 15.33<b><br>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><br>Cc:=
</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<b><br>Subject:</b> RE=
: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'><br></span><br><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Hi Daniele,</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif"'><br>How about adding following sentence into draft?</span>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>&quot;If Encoding Typ=
e is G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) , information in MAX LSP bandwidth block is n=
ot enough for the patch computation. The SCSI must be used. Implementation m=
ust not rely on MAX LSP bandwidth block&quot;</span><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Xihua</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> <br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable=
 border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td wi=
dth=3D"28%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:28.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75p=
t'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</=
span></b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <=
/span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","=
sans-serif"'>2011-07-07 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=
=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> 09:18</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"71%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:71.0%;pa=
dding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><ta=
ble class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=
=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"5%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:5.0%;padd=
ing:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'tex=
t-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=
=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"94%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:=
94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&q=
uot; &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'p=
adding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'=
text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75p=
t .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;danli@huawei.com&quot; &lt;d=
anli@huawei.com&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt=
 .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:r=
ight'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'>RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></t=
r></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100=
%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:=
50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop s=
tyle=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table></td>=
</tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'><br><br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Hi Xihua,</span><span style=3D'font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>in the end this message is an ISC=
D, so we must keep the same format and same values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is=
 present and must be filled as defined in RFC4203 (as written in the draft).=
 Given that RFC 4203 just says few words on &quot;how to fill&quot; that fie=
ld, we just added few words to say it explicitely.</span><span style=3D'font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>What's your suggestion?</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Thanks=
</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Daniel=
e</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>&nbsp;<br>&nbs=
p;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-=
align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.=
xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><br>Sent:</b> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011 13.01<b><br>To=
:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><br>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danl=
i@huawei.com<b><br>Subject:</b> Re: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged</span=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>HiDaniele,</span>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>Thank you for your cl=
arification.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>We kno=
w how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this draft. <br>If it doe=
sn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter with how to stand=
ardize it in this draft.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'><br><br>Xihua</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"28%" valign=3Dtop styl=
e=3D'width:28.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Daniele Cecca=
relli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span style=3D'font-=
size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2011-07-07 </spa=
n><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 06:14</span><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td wid=
th=3D"71%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:71.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt=
'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable bo=
rder=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=
=3D"5%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:5.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-=
CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><t=
d width=3D"94%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt=
 .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif"'>&quot;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt=
;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p>=
</p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'=
><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3D=
ZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt;=
ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;ccamp-bounces@iet=
f.org&gt;, &quot;danli@huawei.com&quot; &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</span><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr=
><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DM=
soNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop=
 style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN d=
rafts merged</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalT=
able border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><t=
d width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt=
 .75pt'></td><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75=
pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"'><br><br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif";color:blue'><br><br>Hi Xihua,</span><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>for sure RFC4204 is not correct, gi=
ven that it is about LMP :-)</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif";color:blue'><br>The draft defines a guideline on how to fill those=
 fields. RFC 4203 states that:</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif"'> <br></span><br><tt><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbs=
p;</span>Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet fields=
 in</tt><br><tt>the IEEE floating point format [</tt><a href=3D"http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE"><tt>IEEE</tt></a><tt>], with priority 0 fir=
st and</tt><br><tt>priority 7 last. </tt><tt><span style=3D'font-family:"Cou=
rier New"'>&nbsp;</span>The units are bytes (not bits!) per second.</tt><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>and the MAX LS=
P field must be filled accordingly. Given that the OTN has a complex hierarc=
hy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the &quot;biggest&quot; available cont=
ainer of the hierarchy. Moreover at different priorities can correspond diff=
erent MAX LSP bandwidth availabilities.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>You're rigth when saying that this infor=
mation is not enough for the PCE and the SCSI must be used.</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Thanks,</span><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br>Daniele</span><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div clas=
s=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=
=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [m=
ailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <b><br>Sent:</b> mercoled=A8=AC 6 luglio 2011 13.=
37<b><br>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<b><br>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@iet=
f.org; danli@huawei.com<b><br>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merge=
d</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><b=
r><br><br>Hi Daniele,</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><=
br><br>One more comment.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
'><br>In section &quot;4. &nbsp;ISCD format extensions&quot;, &nbsp;it write=
:</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>&quot;The MAX LSP=
 bandwidth field is used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</span><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Max LSP Bandwidth &lt;=3D ODUk=
/OTUk and intermediate values are those on</span><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif"'><br>the branch of OTN switching hierarchy supported by t=
he interface.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>E.g.=
 in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Bandwidth for some priorities, O=
DU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc. <br>&quot;</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>In my understanding, there is no any stand=
ardized principle about how to value this unit.</span><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>It doesn't make any sense to path computation e=
ntity. It has to rely on SCSI information.</span><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif"'><br>Is that right?</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Ari=
al","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'><br><br>Xihua</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cel=
lpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"51%" val=
ign=3Dtop style=3D'width:51.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DM=
soNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'=
>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</span></b><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br></span><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>: &nbsp;ccamp-bounces=
@ietf.org</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:=
p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-seri=
f"'>2011-06-27 </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=
=E7</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=
 09:28</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p><=
/o:p></p></td><td width=3D"48%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:48.0%;padding:.7=
5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table clas=
s=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" style=3D'width:=
100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"15%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:15.0%;padding:.75p=
t .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:=
right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span=
><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=3D"84%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:84.0%;pad=
ding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>'CCAMP' &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</span=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></t=
d></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN s=
tyle=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;danli@huaw=
ei.com&quot; &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright styl=
e=3D'text-align:right'><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=
=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75=
pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged</span><o:p></o:p></=
p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" s=
tyle=3D'width:100.0%'><tr><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:50.0=
%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td width=3D"50%" valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table></td></tr=
></table><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br></span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br><br>Hi CCAMPers,</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>As promised during the=
 IETF meeting in Prague the authors of the two competing drafts on OSPF-TE r=
outing extensions for OTN have been working together and a merged document h=
as been produced.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </=
span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><=
br>You can find the merged ID at the following link:</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <u><span style=3D'color:blue'><br><br></spa=
n></u></span><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpl=
s-ospf-g709-06.txt"><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://=
tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.txt</span></a><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>Comments and feedback a=
re appreciated</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br>=
Thanks,</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>The authors=
</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br><br><br></span>=
<img border=3D0 width=3D255 height=3D3 id=3D"_x0000_i1029" src=3D"cid:image0=
01.jpg@01CC40B6.DD34C3B0"><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#333333'><br><br>DANIELE CECCARELLI <br>System &amp;=
 Technology - DU IP &amp; Broadband</span></b><span style=3D'font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";color:#333333'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'><br><br>Via L.Calda, 5<br>=
Genova, Italy<br>Phone +390106002512<br>Mobile +393346725750<br>daniele.cecc=
arelli@ericsson.com</span><u><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><br></span></u><a href=3D"www.ericsson.com"><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.ericsson.com</span></a><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333=
'> </span><u><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br=
><br><br></span></u><a href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/"><span style=3D'text=
-decoration:none'><img border=3D0 width=3D500 height=3D81 id=3D"_x0000_i1030=
" src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01CC40B6.DD34C3B0"></span></a><span style=3D'font-=
size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'><br><br>This Comm=
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Sidd Aanand <Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com>, "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:06:42 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Hi=20
Sidd,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>that's=20
correct. For sure the MAX LSP BW can be used for pruning the tree, so to ap=
ply=20
the path computation algorithm just to the pruned tree. </FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D359365911-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Sidd Aanand=20
[mailto:Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> marted=A8=AC 12 luglio 20=
11=20
13.42<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN dra=
fts=20
merged<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Danielle,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Regarding=20
the MAX LSP BW field in the ISCD: While this may not be enough information =
to=20
compute a path, it might be useful in pruning the tree. That is, the path=20
computation algorithm can have the multiplexing hierarchy details and in=20
addition store the MAX LSP BW at each priority and discard those links that=
 have=20
max-lsp-bw less than the bw that I am looking for. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">In=20
other words, this represents the maximum bandwidth an LSP can have on this =
link.=20
This will be the maximum of all maximums in the hierarchy,=20
right?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Sidd<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 width=
=3D"100%"=20
border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 35%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"35%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Daniele=
=20
      Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
      <P><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">2011-07=
-07=20
      </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CF=C2=CE=E7</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> 09:40<=
/SPAN>=20
      <o:p></o:p></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 64%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"64%">
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</SPA=
N><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">"=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">'=
CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"=20
            &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, "danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">R=
E: RE:=20
            [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
      merged</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">X=
ihua,</SPAN>=20
<BR><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN> <BR><SP=
AN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">g=
iven=20
that the SCSI is mandatory and not optional, the info in the MAX LSP bandwd=
ith=20
fields is implicitely not enough for the path computation :-)</SPAN> <BR><S=
PAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN> <BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">T=
hanks</SPAN>=20
<BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">D=
aniele</SPAN>=20
<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter>
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> fu.xihua@zte=
.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
15.33<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> RE: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Hi=20
Daniele,</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR></SPA=
N><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>How about =
adding=20
following sentence into draft?</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>"If Encodi=
ng Type=20
is G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) , information in MAX LSP bandwidth block is no=
t=20
enough for the patch computation. The SCSI must be used. Implementation mus=
t not=20
rely on MAX LSP bandwidth block"</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Xihua</SPA=
N><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 width=
=3D"100%"=20
border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 28%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"28%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Daniele=
=20
      Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
      <P><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">2011-07=
-07=20
      </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CF=C2=CE=E7</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      09:18</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 71%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"71%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 5%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"5%">
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</SPA=
N><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 94%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"94%">
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">"=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</SPAN><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
        </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">'=
CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"=20
            &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, "danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</SPAN><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
        </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">R=
E: RE:=20
            [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
      merged</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></=
TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>Hi=20
Xihua,</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>in=20
the end this message is an ISCD, so we must keep the same format and same=20
values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is present and must be filled as defined in=20
RFC4203 (as written in the draft). Given that RFC 4203 just says few words =
on=20
"how to fill" that field, we just added few words to say it=20
explicitely.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPA=
N><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>What's=20
your suggestion?</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>Thanks</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>Daniele</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter>
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><BR>From:</SP=
AN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> fu.xihua@zte=
.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> gioved=A8=AC 7 luglio 2011=20
13.01<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: RE: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF=20
OTN drafts merged</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>HiDani=
ele,</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>Thank =
you for=20
your clarification.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"=
>=20
</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>We=20
know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this draft. <BR>If it=
=20
doesn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter with how to=20
standardize it in this draft.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>Xihua<=
/SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 width=
=3D"100%"=20
border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 28%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"28%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Daniele=
=20
      Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
      <P><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">2011-07=
-07=20
      </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CF=C2=CE=E7</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      06:14</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 71%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"71%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 5%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"5%">
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</SPA=
N><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 94%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"94%">
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">"=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn"=20
            &lt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;</SPAN><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
        </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">'=
CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"=20
            &lt;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, "danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</SPAN><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
        </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">R=
E:=20
            [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts=20
      merged</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p=
></P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></=
TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR><BR>Hi=20
Xihua,</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR></SPAN>=
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>for=20
sure RFC4204 is not correct, given that it is about LMP :-)</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>The=20
draft defines a guideline on how to fill those fields. RFC 4203 states=20
that:</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR></SPAN><BR><TT><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">&nbsp;</SPAN>=
Maximum=20
LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet fields in</TT><BR><TT>t=
he=20
IEEE floating point format [</TT><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE"><TT>IEEE</TT></A><TT>]=
, with=20
priority 0 first and</TT><BR><TT>priority 7 last. </TT><TT><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">&nbsp;</SPAN>The units are bytes (not =
bits!)=20
per second.</TT><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>and=20
the MAX LSP field must be filled accordingly. Given that the OTN has a comp=
lex=20
hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the "biggest" available contai=
ner=20
of the hierarchy. Moreover at different priorities can correspond different=
 MAX=20
LSP bandwidth availabilities.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>You're=20
rigth when saying that this information is not enough for the PCE and the S=
CSI=20
must be used.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>Thanks,</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><=
BR>Daniele</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter>
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> fu.xihua@zte=
.com.cn=20
[mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <B><BR>Sent:</B> mercoled=A8=AC 6 luglio 2011=
=20
13.37<B><BR>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<B><BR>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP';=20
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [CCAMP] OSP=
F OTN=20
drafts merged</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR><BR>Hi=
=20
Daniele,</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><S=
PAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>One mo=
re=20
comment.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><S=
PAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>In section=
 "4.=20
&nbsp;ISCD format extensions", &nbsp;it write:</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>"The MAX L=
SP=20
bandwidth field is used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</SPAN><SPAN=
=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Max LSP Ba=
ndwidth=20
&lt;=3D ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values are those on</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>the branch=
 of OTN=20
switching hierarchy supported by the interface.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>E.g. in th=
e OTU4=20
link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Bandwidth =
for=20
some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc. <BR>"</SPAN><SP=
AN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>In my=20
understanding, there is no any standardized principle about how to value th=
is=20
unit.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=
=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>It doesn't=
 make=20
any sense to path computation entity. It has to rely on SCSI=20
information.</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPA=
N><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Is that=20
right?</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPA=
N=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>Xihua<=
/SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 width=
=3D"100%"=20
border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 51%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"51%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Daniele=
=20
      Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      <BR></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=
=C8=CB</SPAN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">:=20
      &nbsp;ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</SPAN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
      <P><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">2011-06=
-27=20
      </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CF=C2=CE=E7</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      09:28</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
      </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0=
.75pt; WIDTH: 48%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
    vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"48%">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 15%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"15%">
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</SPA=
N><o:p></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 84%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"84%">
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">'=
CCAMP'=20
            &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</SPAN><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
        </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">"=
danli@huawei.com"=20
            &lt;danli@huawei.com&gt;</SPAN><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
        </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=3Dright>=
<SPAN=20
            lang=3DZH-CN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</SPAN><o:p=
></o:p></P></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop>
            <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
            style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">[=
CCAMP]=20
            OSPF OTN drafts merged</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></TD></TR></TBODY><=
/TABLE>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p=
></P>
      <TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=3D0 w=
idth=3D"100%"=20
      border=3D0>
        <TBODY>
        <TR>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"></TD>
          <TD=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOT=
TOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 50%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
          vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></=
TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR><BR>Hi=
=20
CCAMPers,</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><=
SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>As pro=
mised=20
during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors of the two competing drafts o=
n=20
OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been working together and a merged=
=20
document has been produced.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>You ca=
n find=20
the merged ID at the following link:</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <U><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue"><BR><BR></SPAN></U></SPAN><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.=
txt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-=
ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.txt</SPAN></A><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>Commen=
ts and=20
feedback are appreciated</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-se=
rif'">=20
</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR>Thanks=
,</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>The=20
authors</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">=20
<BR><BR><BR></SPAN><IMG id=3D_x0000_i1029 height=3D3=20
src=3D"cid:359365911@12072011-2CD3" width=3D255 border=3D0><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'=
"><BR><BR>DANIELE=20
CECCARELLI <BR>System &amp; Technology - DU IP &amp; Broadband</SPAN></B><S=
PAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN><S=
PAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'=
"><BR><BR>Via=20
L.Calda, 5<BR>Genova, Italy<BR>Phone +390106002512<BR>Mobile=20
+393346725750<BR>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com</SPAN><U><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN></U><A=
=20
href=3D"www.ericsson.com"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">www.ericsson.c=
om</SPAN></A><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'=
">=20
</SPAN><U><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR><BR><BR></SPAN=
></U><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/"><SPAN style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: none"><IM=
G=20
id=3D_x0000_i1030 height=3D81 src=3D"cid:359365911@12072011-2CDA" width=3D5=
00=20
border=3D0></SPAN></A><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif=
'"><BR><BR>This=20
Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on the basis =
of=20
the term set out at </SPAN><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif=
'">www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer</SPAN></A><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif=
'">=20
</SPAN><BR><BR><TT>_______________________________________________</TT><BR>=
<TT>CCAMP=20
mailing=20
list</TT><BR><TT>CCAMP@ietf.org</TT><BR><TT>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/ccamp</TT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'Sadler, Jonathan B.'" <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, 'Lou Berger' <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:43:30 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Tue Jul 12 19:01:44 2011
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:00:14 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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To: 'John E Drake' <jdrake@juniper.net>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'Sadler, Jonathan B.'" <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, 'Lou Berger' <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Hi John,

=20

Please see in-line.

=20

If my email below cannot convince you, I have to give up explainning =
more, J.

=20

=20

=20

Thanks
=20
Fatai

=20

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5 2:44
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

=20

Fatai,

=20

We have had this discussion for several weeks now.

=20

Regardless of which of the two methods, implicit or explicit, are used =
to establish them, these intermediate LSPs exist solely to  support the =
ODUj service LSPs, so their creation and deletion should be driven what =
the ODUj service LSPs require.

=20

[Fatai] Their creation and deletion should be driven not only by ODUj =
service LSPs but also the management objective. Right?

=20

I don=E2=80=99t understand what it means to talk of rerouting one of =
these intermediate LSPs because they exist only in the context of the =
ODUk transport LSP and no one has been able to enlighten me.

=20

[Fatai] Pietro and Jonathan has explained a lot about the rerouting of =
these intermediate LSPs. =20

=20

I don=E2=80=99t understand why you like to stress =E2=80=9CODUk =
transport LSP=E2=80=9D. You usually like to assume that it must create =
ODUk transport LSP across multi-hops and then create ODUj service LSP =
and intermediate stage LSP (which has the same endpoints as ODUk =
transport LSP) concurrently. (As I have said repeatedly, multi-stage =
labels are used within the context of a multi-stage multi-hop =
hierarchical LSP, so I don=E2=80=99t think they apply to the following =
case.----taken from your another email ). Don=E2=80=99t you think this =
scenario is not much common?=20

=20

In addition, usually, =E2=80=9CODUk transport LSP=E2=80=9D will not be =
created in the ODU layer, =E2=80=9CODUk transport LSP=E2=80=9D will be =
created implicitly concurrently with OCh connections, because the =
relationship between ODUk and OCh is 1:1 (this has been discussed in =
ITU-T meetings and previous IETF meetings when discussing OTN framework =
document). For example, there are some OTU3 links between some nodes and =
these links  can support ODU1 switching, if an ODU1 connection is =
requested, ODU1 LSP can be created directly over theseOTU3 links and we =
don=E2=80=99t need to create any ODU3 transport LSP.  Agree?

=20

As we discussed last week with Pietro, there is nothing gained by =
re-signaling an intermediate LSP if one of its endpoints fails.=20

=20

[Fatai] Endpoint failure is the extreme worst failure (there are lots of =
other failures/alarms). If the endpoint failure happens on the ODUj =
service LSPs, they also cannot be recovered.

=20

Finally, you should either improve the tone of your emails or stop =
complaining about the tone of mine.

=20

[Fatai] Sorry for my tone but not my intention, J, I just wanted to make =
things clear. Maybe I should not stress =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=9D, J, sorry =
for that. =20

=20

Thanks,

=20

John=20

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:03 PM
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

=20

Hi John,

=20

> You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP

> independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,

> reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from =
the

> top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

=20

JD:  Certainly not

=20

[Fatai] This answer means that "You" don't really want to delete, =
reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the =
top -of-the-stack LSP, but it does not mean that the operators don't =
want to do that, moreover, "You" should not force the operators to do as =
what "you" want (ie., we could provide the options to the operators, but =
we should not force the operators to do something), because it will =
overthrow the architecture of transport networks and the operators' =
habit to manage the transport networks.

=20

=20

=20

Thanks

=20

Fatai

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5 19:04
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

=20

Igor,

=20

Comments inline.

=20

Thanks,

=20

John

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:23 AM

> To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> John,

>=20

> You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP

> independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,

> reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from =
the

> top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

=20

JD:  Certainly not

=20

>=20

> You also said:

> The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent =
signaling

> of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.

>=20

> This could be done via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the

> ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.

=20

JD:  We need to specify which ODU2 we are referencing in order to =
perform call admission control of the subsequent ODU1s and to set-up the =
data plane correctly

=20

>=20

> Igor

>=20

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]

> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM

> To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'

> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Hi John,

>=20

> What is the answer to Igor's question?

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Thanks

>=20

> Fatai

>=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

> Of Igor Bryskin

> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5 23:23

> To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> John,

>=20

> You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP

> independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,

> reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from =
the

> top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?

>=20

> You also said:

> The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent =
signaling

> of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.

>=20

> This could be done via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the

> ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.

>=20

> Igor

>=20

> -----Original Message-----

> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]

> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:09 AM

> To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> Cc: CCAMP

> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

>=20

> Igor,

>=20

> If we have, for example, a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is

> being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, then with multi-stage labels,

> an intermediate stage switching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part

> of the signaling of the first ODU1.  The ODU2 has capacity for

> additional ODU1s and the subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can

> reference that ODU2.

>=20

> I have email from you agreeing with this which I can trot out if

> necessary 8->.

>=20

> Thanks,

>=20

> John

>=20

> Sent from my iPhone

>=20

>=20

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:02 AM

> > To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> > Cc: CCAMP

> > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> >

> > John,

> >

> > You said:

> >

> > JD:  A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also

> > created in the control plane and can be referenced by subsequent =
ODUj

> > signaling requests.

> >

> > What do you need the control plane state for?

> >

> > Igor

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On

> Behalf

> > Of John E Drake

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:47 AM

> > To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger

> > Cc: CCAMP

> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> >

> > Jonathan,

> >

> > Comments inline.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > John

> >

> >

> > Sent from my iPhone

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]

> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:26 AM

> > > To: John E Drake; Lou Berger

> > > Cc: CCAMP

> > > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > John,

> > >

> > > This seems ambiguous depending on the scope of the term "LSP".

> This

> > > can refer to a dataplane construct or to a control plane =
construct.

> >

> > JD:  Doesn't the term LSP typically refer to both aspects?

> > >

> > > I assume you mean "The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically

> creates

> > > the lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it in addition to the

> > service

> > > LSP.

> >

> > JD:  A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also

> > created in the control plane and can be referenced by subsequent =
ODUj

> > signaling requests.

> >

> > > This is all done without additional signaling sessions for the

> > > lower-layer dataplane LSP."

> >

> > JD:  This is accomplished without explicit signaling of the

> > intermediate stage switching LSPs?

> >

> > >

> > > Can you validate the above statement?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Jonathan Sadler

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On

> > Behalf

> > > Of John E Drake

> > > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58 PM

> > > To: Lou Berger

> > > Cc: CCAMP

> > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > >

> > > 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically creates the

> intermediate

> > > switching stage LSPs necessary to support it within the containing

> > > hierarchical ODUk LSP'

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPhone

> > >

> > > On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

> > >

> > > > John,

> > > >        I think all understand that the question relates to if

> there

> > > > is a

> > > > requirement to support signaling multiple stages in a single =
LSP.

> > > >

> > > >> What do I need to write to make this clear?

> > > >

> > > > If you disagree, please rephrase as you think is sufficient to

> make

> > > > the

> > > > question clear.

> > > >

> > > > Lou

> > > >

> > > > On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake wrote:

> > > >> Lou,

> > > >>

> > > >> As I think I have written at least two or three times over the

> > past

> > > >> day or so, I don't think the requirement as originally written

> or

> > as

> > > >> revised is useful because both or the two methods under

> discussion

> > > >> will meet it.

> > > >>

> > > >> What do I need to write to make this clear?

> > > >>

> > > >> Thanks,

> > > >>

> > > >> John

> > > >>

> > > >> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>

> > > >> On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>

> > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>> So John,

> > > >>>       From my list:

> > > >>> 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)

> > > >>> 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)

> > > >>> 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)

> > > >>> 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)

> > > >>> 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no)

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Are you a "yes" in 2C or 2D?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Lou

> > > >>>

> > > >>> PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...

> > > >>>

> > > >>> On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how

> > about

> > > >>>> using 'intermediate switching stage

> > > >>>> LSP'?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> To answer your question, I don't agree with your second

> > paragraph.

> > > >>>> I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method,

> > > >>>> either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to

> > > establish

> > > >>>> intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not both.  There is no

> > > >>>> reason to support both.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, "Fatai Zhang"

> > > <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com

> > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email below?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> If not, I would like to step further to make something

> explicit.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Let's continue this example below. If there is no enough

> > resource

> > > >>>> on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or

> if

> > > >>>> Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support ODU3

> > > termination,

> > > >>>> how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Could you explain a little more?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>

> > > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> ; 'Igor

> > > Bryskin'<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com

> > > >>>>> ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO

> > > VITTORIO)'<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>

> > > >>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP  mailing list =
in

> > > >>>> response to Pietro=E2=80=99s email.  I think it also =
addresses the

> > points

> > > >>>> in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line

> > analys

> > > >>>> is of it by you.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]

> > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> OK, Let=E2=80=99s converge.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be

> used

> > > for

> > > >>>> some cases rather than universal cases.  Based on this =
example

> > > >>>> below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single =
stage

> > > >>>> muxing (ie., ODU0->ODU3). Another alternative is to create

> ODU2

> > FA

> > > >>>> LSP and then use one single stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2).  For

> > these

> > > >>>> two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think

> > you

> > > >>>> can understand that these two ways are better and more

> efficient

> > > >>>> than your approach (two stages (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3) +ODU3 FA-

> LSP).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema]

> to

> > > >>>> give the flexibility for the people to choose what they =
prefer

> > for

> > > >>>> multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or

> > > >>>> multi-

> > > >>>> stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect

> > unified

> > > >>>> solution. If people like multi-stage labels, they can choose

> > this

> > > >>>> approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels,

> they

> > > can

> > > >>>> just choose single stage + H-LSP.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 12:13

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, =
PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I had one clarification.  Multi-stage labels can be used on

> > links,

> > > >>>> in which case the =E2=80=98containing hierarchical =
LSP=E2=80=99 is the link=E2=80=99s

> > > >>>> OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling

> > multipl

> > > >>>> e one hop sub-layer LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case,

> > > because

> > > >>>> having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of the

> network

> > in

> > > >>>> inherently less scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage

> > > >>>> hierarchical LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 11:37

> > > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Comments inline.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> So, you admit that ODU0->ODU2->ODU3 cannot be created =
directly

> > by

> > > >>>> multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3

> > before

> > > >>>> ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 =
(FA)

> > is

> > > >>>> already there.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  Absolutely.  I think I actually stipulated this in an

> email

> > I

> > > >>>> sent you and others some months back.  The basic idea is that

> > you

> > > >>>> create the containing hierarchical  LSP first and then use it

> to

> > > >>>> establish  OUDj client  LSPs and their required sub-layer =
LSPs

> > as

> > > >>>> needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being established using one =
of

> > the

> > > >>>> two proposals being discussed.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> A few points for clarification, even though I follow your

> > thought.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is

> > still

> > > >>>> H-LSP concept there.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  Absolutely.  If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B

> holds

> > > >>>> it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,

> and

> > > >>>> then *either*

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 1)      Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then

> sends

> > > >>>> the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 2)      Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along with the =
multi-

> > > stage

> > > >>>> label for the ODU2 LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA should be

> > > >>>> regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between

> one-

> > > hop

> > > >>>> FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as

> one-

> > > hop

> > > >>>> scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attention to this

> > > >>>> sentence that we are trying to make you understood many

> times).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  I told Sergio and you  last week that I didn=E2=80=99t =
think mul

> > > >>>> ti-st

> > > >>>> age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, =
and

> > tha

> > > >>>> t I only considered them useful in the context of multi-hop

> > multis

> > > >>>> tage hierarchical LSPs.  The signaling within the containing

> > hiera

> > > >>>> rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this

> example,

> > > why

> > > >>>> it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0->ODU2->ODU3), why not

> > just

> > > >>>> use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0->ODU3)?  Please

> review

> > > >>>> our slides again to get more information about cons of multi-

> > stage

> > > >>>> muxing(slide 5).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> JD:  You could, if that branch is also supported.  In your

> > figure

> > > I

> > > >>>> had mentally edited out the ODU0 -> ODU3 branch so that we =
had

> > an

> > > >>>> interesting scenario to discuss.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 23:39

> > > >>>> To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 =
between n

> > > >>>> ode B

> > > >>>> and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.  Using

> the

> > s

> > > >>>> ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-

> layer

> > OD

> > > >>>> U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.

> > Wit

> > > >>>> h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include an

> > ODU2

> > > >>>> multi-stage label.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with

> some

> > > >>>> non-

> > > >>>> zero amount of effort, but my preference is for multi-stage

> > > labels,

> > > >>>> strictly from an efficiency perspective.  There isn=E2=80=99t =
enough

> > > >>>> diffe

> > > >>>> rence between the two approaches to warrant standardizing

> both.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM

> > > >>>> To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> > (PIETRO

> > > >>>> VITTORIO)'

> > > >>>> Cc: 'CCAMP'

> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was some

> > improper

> > > >>>> wording. Let=E2=80=99s discuss tech.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a

> simple

> > > >>>> example shown below.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A =
to

> > > Node

> > > >>>> E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g.,

> > traffic

> > > >>>> parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv

> > message?

> > > >>>> What action should be taken for Node C when receiving the =
Path

> > or

> > > >>>> Resv message?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> <image001.png>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> > > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org

> > > >>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> > > >>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf Of John E Drake

> > > >>>> Sent: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8829=E6=97=A5 6:12

> > > >>>> To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>> Cc: CCAMP

> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Igor,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I have a few clarifications.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 1)  Multi-stage labels apply equally well to multi-hop

> > > hierarchical

> > > >>>> LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to

> understand.)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 2)  It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just

> works

> > > >>>> for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports

> multi-

> > > >>>> stage switching.  This involves a nested set of hierarchical

> > LSPs,

> > > >>>> the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs

> > > which

> > > >>>> provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the

> same

> > > two

> > > >>>> endpoints.  This is a new construct and there are almost

> > certainly

> > > >>>> details to be worked out.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> 3)  I don't think we should standardize both approaches.  I

> > would

> > > >>>> prefer that the working group pick one to standardize.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>> [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cc: CCAMP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Hi Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he

> keeps

> > > >>>>> saying

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information

> pertinent

> > > to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> network element provisioning in most efficient way. It does

> > seem

> > > >>>>> stupid

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is

> > > >>>>> sufficient a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), create

> and

> > > >>>>> support

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart

> > implications,

> > > >>>>> etc.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as

> > identification

> > > >>>>> of a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the

> > GMPLS

> > > >>>>> god-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to

> > > >>>>> control the

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate

> multi-

> > > >>>>> stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> provisioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to

> do

> > > so.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cheers,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Igor

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> > > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org

> > > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> > > >>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cc: CCAMP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Hello John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of

> > > >>>>> private

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> mails without asking the permission to the involved people.

> > This

> > > >>>>> is

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> impolite and unprofessional.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four

> > > >>>>> threads

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to

> > > >>>>> follow for

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> people not involved in the discussion since the beginning.

> > > >>>>> Moreover,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> this happened after a discussion from scratch was already

> > > >>>>> started in

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> the mailing list.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and

> > > >>>>> deliberate

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> personal offenses not supported by any sound technical

> > > >>>>> motivation as

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> reported in your mails and snipped below:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> "This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical

> > LSP,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.  It is so bad it =
is

> > not

> > > >>>>> even

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> wrong."

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> " It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and

> > > found

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> them, shall we say, lacking."

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued =
from

> a

> > > >>>>> purely

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> technical point of view.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Pietro, Sergio and Daniele

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like

> an

> > > >>>>> hour.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a

> > minute.

> > > >>>>> That's

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> relativity.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> (A. Einstein)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> ccamp-

> > > bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org

> > > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:ccamp-

> > > >>>>> bounces@ietf.org]> On Behalf

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Of John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: marted=C3=AC 28 giugno 2011 14.13

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: CCAMP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> From: John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;

> > > >>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>> ; Ciena -

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok

> Kunjidhapatham;

> > > >>>>> BELOTTI,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele

> > Ceccarelli

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Fatai,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Comments inline.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>> [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > >>>>>> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;

> > > >>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> ; Ciena -

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok

> Kunjidhapatham;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> BELOTTI,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele

> > Ceccarelli

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Hi John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> JD:  I will let this pass.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,

> > > >>>>>> establish

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the

> issues

> > > >>>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> described in the slides and the issues that Jonathan

> mentioned

> > > >>>>>> (eg.,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> OAM/protection issues).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> JD:  I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.  I =
don't

> > > >>>>> think the

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels

> is

> > > >>>>> either

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> interesting or common and it was not the case to which I was

> > > >>>>> addressing

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> my comments.  Rather, I was describing two ways of

> establishing

> > > >>>>> multi-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.  As far as I can tell the

> > > >>>>> issues

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than

> > blue

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> whales.  Furthermore, regardless of which of the two

> approaches

> > I

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> described is used, the issues, if any, would be exactly the

> > same.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy

> > > >>>>>> must be

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> used in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label

> > > >>>>>> approach.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> E.g., an ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C

> and

> > D,

> > > >>>>>> but

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> B,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> C and  D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching,

> the

> > > HO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> ODUj

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between =
B

> > > >>>>>> and D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and =
there

> > are

> > > >>>>>> lots

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarchy.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> JD:  Please see above.  I completely agree with you and was

> > > simply

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve

> wrt

> > > >>>>> latency

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> and control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs

> > within

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> From: "John E Drake"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne

> > > t

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> To: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>> lucent.com>pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > lucent.com<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Cc: "Daniele Ceccarelli"

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>> ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ericsson.com>daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@

> > > ericsson.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Rajan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Rao"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> <<mailto:rrao@infinera.com>rrao@infinera.com<mailto:rrao@infinera.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Fatai Zhang"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@

> > > huawei.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Khuzema

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Pithewan"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com>kpithewan@infinera.com<mailto:kpithewan

> > > @infinera.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>> lucent.com>sergio.belotti@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>> lucent.com<mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>>;

> "Ashok

> > > >>>>>> Kunjidhapatham"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com>akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<mailto:

> > > akunjidhapatham@infinera.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Diego Caviglia"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>diego.caviglia@ericsson.com<mailto:di

> > > ego.caviglia@ericsson.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Steve Balls"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com<mailto:S

> > > teve.Balls@metaswitch.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Ciena - Lyndon Ong"

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > <<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com>LyOng@Ciena.com<mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co

> > > m.cn

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "NSN - Cyril Margaria"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com>cyril.margaria@nsn.com<mailto:cyril.mar

> > > garia@nsn.com

> > > >>>>>>> ;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> "Li Dan"

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<<mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com>huawei.danli@huawei.com<mailto:huawei.

> > > danli@huawei.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Jonathan Hardwick"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>> ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
metaswitch.com>Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com<mailto:Jonathan.Hardwic

> > > k@metaswitch.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> <<m

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> >

> =
ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com<mailto:jo

> > > nathan.sadler@tellabs.com

> > > >>>>>>>> ; "Vallinayakam Somasundaram"

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > >

> <<mailto:valli@juniper.net>valli@juniper.net<mailto:valli@juniper.net

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs using

> > single-

> > > >>>>>> stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label

> > format,

> > > >>>>>> which

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> I

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP

> > establishment

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> using

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> single-stage muxing is done.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing

> > before

> > > >>>>>> so we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use

> > LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> explicitly

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information

> within

> > > the

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Path

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are

> established

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> implicitly and concurrently with the establishment of the

> > ODUj.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is =
more

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> efficient

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> wrt latency and control plane overhead.  The one thing I do

> > not

> > > >>>>>> want

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> do is to say that both are supported.  If we can agree that

> we

> > > >>>>>> will

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then =
when

> a

> > > >>>>>> node

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> advertises multi-stage support in routing, we know how

> > > >>>>>> signaling is

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> be accomplished.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: John E Drake

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego

> > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Margaria;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> It seems as though you consider on the same level =
something

> > (H-

> > > >>>>>>> LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with

> > something

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> does not exist at all.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Operators are used to managed their CP network together

> with

> > > >>>>>>> NMS.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a =
multi-

> > > stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> label

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy

> > > >>>>>>> implementation

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> consequences.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label =
approach

> > can

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> only

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> be

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> used in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage

> > muxing)

> > > >>>>>>> and

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> it

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> will bring some management issues. Please see the slides

> that

> > > >>>>>>> Fatai

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> sent a few days ago.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> For both these reasons the "optional" condition of multi-

> > stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> label

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> concept is absolutely mandatory for us.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro, Sergio, Fatai & Daniele

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Mail: <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems

> like

> > an

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> hour.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a

> > > minute.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> That's

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> relativity.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> (A. Einstein)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego

> > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>; NSN - Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Margaria;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> We can certainly say that a node that advertises =
multistage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> switching

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> support in routing MUST support multistage signaling.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> As I said before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the

> > same

> > > >>>>>>> LSP

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems

> > ill-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> considered and forcing everyone to support two ways of

> > > signaling

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO

> (PIETRO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > >

> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hello John,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I understand that you think that the new switching type in

> > > >>>>>>> routing

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> should also convey implicitly the information that a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multi-stage label is supported.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I do not agree with this statement.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are

> > > >>>>>>> possible

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> (and

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> already standard) and the fact the a node supports

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> the new switching type is not enough to clearly tell what

> is

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> supported.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: venerd=C3=AC 17 giugno 2011 2.09

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele

> > > >>>>>>> Ceccarelli;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO

> > > >>>>>>> (SERGIO);

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; =
'Ciena

> -

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Lyndon

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Ong'; <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Actually we are already covered.   Our advertisements use =
a

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> different

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> switching type, which is also carried in signaling.  This

> > means

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> get to define the signaling used for this switching type,

> and

> > > >>>>>>> I am

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> proposing that we use multistage.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai

> Zhang;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Khuzema

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;

> > Diego

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hi all,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I  agree with Daniele' statement.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> in my mind this means that single stage label support is

> > > >>>>>>> implicit

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> and

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine

> > > >>>>>>> explicitly

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> declares the support.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Pietro Vittorio Grandi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Tel: +39 039 686 4930

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Mail: <<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>>> lucent.com>mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel->

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > >

> lucent.com<http://lucent.com><<mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-

> > > lucent.com

> > > >>>>>>>> mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems

> like

> > an

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> hour.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a

> > > minute.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> That's

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> relativity.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> (A. Einstein)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: Daniele Ceccarelli

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 15.48

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema =
Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> BELOTTI,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO

> > VITTORIO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> (PIETRO

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> VITTORIO); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon

> > Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Starting a new thread as we're now moving to signaling...

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Assuming we still have not decided whether we're going to

> > > >>>>>>> support

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> single stage only, multi stage only or both of them i

> believe

> > > >>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> as

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> per OSPF we need to consider backward compatibility.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> An implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly =
been

> > > told

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> not

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi =
stage

> > > only

> > > >>>>>>> or

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover

> > backward

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> compatibility issues somehow.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> BR

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Daniele

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: gioved=C3=AC 16 giugno 2011 8.53

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema

> > > >>>>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego

> > > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> 'Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support

> > for

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Rajan,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I didn't want to allow interoperability options.  I much

> > > >>>>>>> preferred

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> to

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> say that we do signaling in one way only, using multistage

> > > >>>>>>> labels.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> These are also needed for signaling within  hierarchical

> > LSPs.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Thanks,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> John

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> From: Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]<mailto:

> > > >>>>>>> [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> Pithewan;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego

> > > Caviglia;

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> 'Steve

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>

> > > fu.xihua@zte.com.cn

> > > >>>>>>> <mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn><mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>;

> > 'NSN

> > > -

> > > >>>>>>> Cyril

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -

> Jonathan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> Sadler';

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Vallinayakam Somasundaram

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support

> > for

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> multi-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> stage Vs Single Stage labels)

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Hi,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> While we are making updates, let us discuss support

> required

> > in

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> link

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Given that there is interest in both multi-stage label and

> > > >>>>>>> single-

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>> stage

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to

> > indicate

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> what

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> the link is capable of.  This will address some of the

> issues

> > > we

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> have

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> discussed in the past relating to path computation

> involving

> > > NEs

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> with

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> different capabilities (inter-op).

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Thanks

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Rajan

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> =
CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> =
CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > >

> >

> =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>https://www.ietf.org/mailm

> > > an/listinfo/ccamp

> > > >>>> _______________________________________________

> > > >>>> CCAMP mailing list

> > > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org

> > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > CCAMP mailing list

> > > CCAMP@ietf.org

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> > >

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The information contained in this message may be privileged

> > > and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader

> > > of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee

> > > or agent responsible for delivering this message to the

> > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,

> > > dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly

> > > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,

> > > please notify us immediately by replying to the message and

> > > deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs

> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> > _______________________________________________

> > CCAMP mailing list

> > CCAMP@ietf.org

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

> _______________________________________________

> CCAMP mailing list

> CCAMP@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

>=20

=20


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link=3D"#17BBFD" vlink=3D"#FF79C2" =
style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Please =
see in-line.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>If my =
email below cannot convince you, I have to give up explainning more, =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><spa=
n =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>13</span><sp=
an =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
2:44<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; =
'Lou Berger'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We have had this discussion for =
several weeks now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regardless of which of the two =
methods, implicit or explicit, are used to establish them, these =
intermediate LSPs exist solely to &nbsp;support the ODUj service LSPs, =
so their creation and deletion should be driven what the ODUj service =
LSPs require.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>[Fatai] Their creation and =
deletion should be driven not only by ODUj service LSPs but also the =
management objective. Right?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I don=E2=80=99t understand what =
it means to talk of rerouting one of these intermediate LSPs because =
they exist only in the context of the ODUk transport LSP and no one has =
been able to enlighten me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>[Fatai] Pietro and Jonathan has =
explained a lot about the rerouting of these intermediate LSPs. =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>I don=E2=80=99t understand why =
you like to stress =E2=80=9CODUk transport LSP=E2=80=9D. You usually =
like to assume that it must create ODUk transport LSP across multi-hops =
and then create ODUj service LSP and intermediate stage LSP (which has =
the same endpoints as ODUk transport LSP) concurrently.<i> =
(</i></span><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As I have said repeatedly, =
multi-stage labels are used within the context of a multi-stage =
multi-hop hierarchical LSP, so I don=E2=80=99t think they apply to the =
following case.----taken from your another email ).</span></i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>Don=E2=80=99t you =
think this scenario is not much common? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>In addition, usually, =
=E2=80=9CODUk transport LSP=E2=80=9D will not be created in the ODU =
layer, =E2=80=9CODUk transport LSP=E2=80=9D will be created implicitly =
concurrently with OCh connections, because the relationship between ODUk =
and OCh is 1:1 (this has been discussed in ITU-T meetings and previous =
IETF meetings when discussing OTN framework document). For example, =
there are some OTU3 links between some nodes and these links =C2=A0can =
support ODU1 switching, if an ODU1 connection is requested, ODU1 LSP can =
be created directly over theseOTU3 links and we don=E2=80=99t need to =
create any ODU3 transport LSP. =C2=A0Agree?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As we discussed last week with =
Pietro, there is nothing gained by re-signaling an intermediate LSP if =
one of its endpoints fails. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>[Fatai] Endpoint failure is the =
extreme worst failure (there are lots of other failures/alarms). If the =
endpoint failure happens on the ODUj service LSPs, they also cannot be =
recovered.</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Finally, you should either =
improve the tone of your emails or stop complaining about the tone of =
mine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>[Fatai] Sorry for my tone but =
not my intention, </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#0033CC'>J</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>, I just =
wanted to make things clear. Maybe I should not stress =
=E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=9D, </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#0033CC'>J</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#0033CC'>, sorry for =
that. =C2=A0</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai =
Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 11, =
2011 11:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, =
Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you want to =
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't really want =
to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs =
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#005BD3'>[Fatai] This answer means that =
&quot;You&quot; don't really want to delete, reroute, restore, etc. =
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the top -of-the-stack LSP, =
but it does not mean that the operators don't want to do that, moreover, =
&quot;You&quot; should not force the operators to do as what =
&quot;you&quot; want (ie., we could provide the options to the =
operators, but we should not force the operators to do something), =
because it will overthrow the architecture of transport networks and the =
operators' habit to manage the transport =
networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>7</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E6=9C=88</span><span lang=3DEN-US>11</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
19:04<br>To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou =
Berger'<br>Cc: 'CCAMP'<br>Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs =
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, =
2011 8:23 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You need control state for =
an LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; independently from other =
LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. =
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You also =
said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the =
subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that =
ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; This could be done via =
suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its =
data plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>JD:&nbsp; We need to specify =
which ODU2 we are referencing in order to perform call admission control =
of the subsequent ODU1s and to set-up the data plane =
correctly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 =
11:37 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler, Jonathan =
B.'; 'Lou Berger'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; What is the answer to =
Igor's question?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Of Igor =
Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: 2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>7</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
23:23<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You need control state for =
an LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; independently from other =
LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. =
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; You also =
said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the =
subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that =
ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; This could be done via =
suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its =
data plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, =
2011 11:09 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; If we have, for example, a =
containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; being used to switch ODU1s =
via an ODU2, then with multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; an intermediate stage =
switching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; of the signaling of the =
first ODU1.&nbsp; The ODU2 has capacity for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; additional ODU1s and the =
subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; reference that =
ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; I have email from you =
agreeing with this which I can trot out if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; necessary =
8-&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July =
06, 2011 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; You said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or more intermediate stage =
switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; created in the control =
plane and can be referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; signaling =
requests.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; What do you need the =
control plane state for?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July =
06, 2011 10:47 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Sadler, Jonathan B. =
[mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, =
July 06, 2011 7:26 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: =
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; This seems ambiguous depending on the scope =
of the term &quot;LSP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; can refer to a dataplane construct or to a =
control plane construct.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Doesn't the term LSP typically refer to =
both aspects?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; I assume you mean =
&quot;The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
creates<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; the lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it =
in addition to the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; service<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one =
or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are =
also<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can be =
referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; signaling =
requests.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is all done =
without additional signaling sessions for the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; lower-layer =
dataplane LSP.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; This is =
accomplished without explicit signaling of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; intermediate stage =
switching LSPs?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can you validate the above =
statement?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan =
Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Sunday, =
July 03, 2011 12:58 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: =
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically =
creates the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; intermediate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage =
LSPs necessary to support it within the =
containing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical ODUk =
LSP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jul 3, 2011, =
at 1:40 PM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think all understand =
that the question relates to if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
there<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; requirement =
to support signaling multiple stages in a single =
LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do =
I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you disagree, please rephrase as you =
think is sufficient to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
make<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; question =
clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Lou<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As I think I have written at least =
two or three times over the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
past<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; day or so, I don't think the =
requirement as originally written<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; revised is useful because both or the two methods =
under<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; will =
meet it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do =
I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On Jul =
3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; =
&lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; So =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From my =
list:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel =
free to elaborate)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2A) A real requirement? =
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2B) A complete non-goal? =
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2C) Useful, if can find a =
reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2D) =
Just don't care? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Are you a &quot;yes&quot; in 2C =
or 2D?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; =
Lou<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; PS I =
think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E =
Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', =
how<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; about<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using 'intermediate =
switching stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
LSP'?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To answer your question, I don't agree with your =
second<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; paragraph.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one =
method,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either sequential Path =
messages or multi-stage labels, to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
establish<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; intermediate switching =
stage LSPs, but not both.&nbsp; There is no<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
reason to support both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai =
Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Do you agree with my second paragraph in my email =
below?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
If not, I would like to step further to make =
something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; explicit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let's continue this example =
below. If there is no enough<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
resource<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on link BC or CD (or both =
of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support =
ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; termination,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage =
labels?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Could you explain a little more?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message =
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: Fatai Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt; ; =
'Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Bryskin'&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP&nbsp; mailing list =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; response to Pietro</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s =
email.&nbsp; I think it also addresses the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
points<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in your email, below, and I =
would appreciate a line-by-line<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
analys<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is of it by =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
OK, Let</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s =
converge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
used<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
some cases rather than universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this =
example<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; below, we can create ODU3 =
FA LSP and then use one single stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
muxing (ie., ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to =
create<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
FA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP and then use one single stage muxing =
(ODU0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
these<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two ways, there is no need =
to use multi-stage labels. I think<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
you<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can understand that these two ways are better =
and more<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
than your approach (two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 =
FA-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- =
Khuzema]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; give the flexibility for =
the people to choose what they prefer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single =
stage + H-LSP) or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage labels in some cases. =
We have figured out a perfect<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
unified<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solution. If people like =
multi-stage labels, they can choose<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
this<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach to use. If people =
do not like multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
they<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
just choose single stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
12:13<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Fatai =
Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I had one clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used =
on<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; links,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in which case the =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=98</span><span lang=3DEN-US>containing hierarchical =
LSP</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US> is the link</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>s<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OUDk/OTUk, and they would =
be more efficient than signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
multipl<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e one hop sub-layer =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common =
case,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; because<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core of =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
network<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
inherently less scalable than having multi-hop =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchical =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
11:37<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor =
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
So, you admit that ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created =
directly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; by<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical =
ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 =
(FA)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
already there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
email<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
sent you and others some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
create the containing hierarchical&nbsp; LSP first and then use =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish&nbsp; OUDj client&nbsp; LSPs and =
their required sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needed, with the sub-layer LSPs being =
established using one of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two proposals being =
discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
A few points for clarification, even though I follow =
your<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How to create the ODU3 FA =
before ODU0 request? I think it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
still<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; H-LSP concept =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, =
B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
holds<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it, establishes the ODU3 =
containing hierarchical LSP to D,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
then *either*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling =
D and then<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; sends<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along =
with the multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 FA between B and D =
is already there, the FA should be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference =
between<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should =
be treated as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay =
attention to this<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sentence that we are trying =
to make you understood many<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
times).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio and you&nbsp; last week that I didn</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t think mul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ti-st<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; age labels for links (one =
hop) were interesting or useful, and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
tha<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t I only considered them useful in the =
context of multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; multis<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
tage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the =
containing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; hiera<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoints so it is one =
hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on =
this<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; example,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
why<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it needs to use two stage muxing =
(ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
just<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; use the simple one stage =
muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
review<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; our slides again to get =
more information about cons of multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing(slide =
5).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
JD:&nbsp; You could, if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In =
your<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; figure<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; had mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 =
branch so that we had<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
interesting scenario to discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>29</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
23:39<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor =
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Let</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s assume we have a containing =
hierarchical ODU3 between n<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ode B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and node D over which we =
want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
s<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would =
signal a sub-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; layer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
OD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then =
signal the ODU0.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Wit<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
h multi-stage labels we would signal the ODU0 and include =
an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
label.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work =
with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; some<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
non-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero amount of effort, but =
my preference is for multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
labels,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; strictly from an efficiency =
perspective.&nbsp; There isn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
enough<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
diffe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rence between the two =
approaches to warrant standardizing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Agree with Igor that let emotions aside if there was =
some<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; improper<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wording. Let</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>s discuss =
tech.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
simple<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example shown =
below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; Node<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E by multi-stage labels =
approach? What information (e.g.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
traffic<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; parameters, labels) should =
be carried in the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
message?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What action should be taken =
for Node C when receiving the Path<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Resv message?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
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class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf Of John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E6=9C=88</span><span lang=3DEN-US>29</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
6:12<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP =
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-stage labels =
apply equally well to multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs. (The is the point =
some people do not seem to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
understand.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, =
just<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; works<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
for the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that =
supports<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stage switching.&nbsp; This involves a nested set of =
hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; LSPs,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
the containing hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer =
LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; which<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
provide context for intermediate stage labels, between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
same<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; two<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
endpoints.&nbsp; This is a new construct and there are =
almost<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; certainly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
details to be worked out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3)&nbsp; I don't think we =
should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
would<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prefer that the working =
group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Igor Bryskin =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, =
2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John =
E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, =
what he<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; keeps<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; saying<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; repeatedly in this =
discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The point of CP =
signaling is to convey information<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
pertinent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network element =
provisioning in most efficient way. It does<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
seem<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stupid<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to signal numerous one hop hierarchical LSPs (when =
it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sufficient =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single end-to-end round of signaling to do the =
job), create<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; numerous extra CP states, take care of all =
restart<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; implications,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just to be consistent =
with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Besides, you can =
think of multi-stage label as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
identification<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; new type of network resources controlled by GMPLS. =
Even the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; god-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fathers would agree =
that they never meant to limit GMPLS to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; control the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; resources described in =
early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot =
orchestrate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provisioning through =
the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; do<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: =
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:43 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) You have forwarded =
to the CCamp mailing list a number of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; private<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mails without asking =
the permission to the involved people.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impolite and =
unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list =
forwarding four<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
threads<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and very =
complicated to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; follow =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; people not involved in the discussion since the =
beginning.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Moreover,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this happened after a discussion from scratch was =
already<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; started =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) You moved from a =
technical discussion to arrogant and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deliberate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personal offenses not =
supported by any sound technical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; motivation as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported in your mails =
and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;This shows a complete lack of understanding =
of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labels, and =
GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot; It might be more precise to say I reviewed =
your slides and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; found<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them, shall we say, =
lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We hope that from now on the discussion can be =
continued from<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
purely<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio and =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate =
(Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a hot =
stove for a minute, and it seems like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl =
for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: =
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
marted</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 28 giugno 2011 =
14.13<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan =
Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - =
Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve =
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN =
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); =
John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve =
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); =
Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I guess that you =
did not review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let =
this pass.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You just see the =
only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-layers LSP =
concurrently), but you did not see the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described in the =
slides and the issues that Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
mentioned<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
(eg.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OAM/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry =
that I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I =
don't<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; think =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o =
multi-stage labels<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
either<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting or common and it was not the case to =
which I was<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
addressing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; my comments.&nbsp; Rather, I was describing two =
ways of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; establishing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hop multi-stage =
hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan raised in this =
context are red herrings rather than<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
blue<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regardless of which of =
the two<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; approaches<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described is used, the issues, if any, would be =
exactly the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we =
have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; must be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in many cases, =
even though we have multi-stage label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E.g., an ODU0 =
connection request from A to E through B, C<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
D,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; but<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
B,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C and&nbsp; D (or one of them ) can not support =
ODU0 switching,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; HO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be =
created between B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and =
D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through LSP hierarchy. This example is very =
simple and there<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lots<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of transforms for =
this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Please see =
above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
simply<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pointing out that multi-stage labels can be used to =
improve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; wrt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
latency<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and control plane overhead, the establishment of =
ODUj LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message =
-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &quot;John E =
Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.ne<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; t<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele =
Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccare=
lli@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infi=
nera.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; =
&quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:z=
hangfatai@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;mailto=
:kpithewan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; @infinera.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO =
(SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mai=
lto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Diego =
Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&lt;mailt=
o:di<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
ego.caviglia@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Steve =
Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&l=
t;mailto:S<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
teve.Balls@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.c=
om<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xi=
hua@zte.co<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; m.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;NSN - Cyril =
Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto=
:cyril.mar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; garia@nsn.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Li =
Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@huawei.com&lt;mail=
to:huawei.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; danli@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Jonathan =
Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Har=
dwic<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; k@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan =
Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&lt;mailt=
o:jo<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
nathan.sadler@tellabs.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@jun=
iper.net<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If we are talking =
about the establishment of LSPs using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
single-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a =
new label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; format,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i.e., =
LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; establishment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-stage muxing =
is done.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have never had a =
situation such as multi-stage muxing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
before<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are breaking new ground and we have two =
choices, either use<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy to =
establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer =
information<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; message for the =
ODUj such that the sub-layers are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
established<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicitly and concurrently with the =
establishment of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; ODUj.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Either will work, =
but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
efficient<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.&nbsp; =
The one thing I do<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; do is to say that both are supported.&nbsp; If =
we can agree that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only use one method to establish multi-stage =
LSPs, then when<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
node<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertises multi-stage support in routing, we =
know how<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; signaling =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be =
accomplished.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, =
June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO =
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - =
Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO =
(PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems as =
though you consider on the same level something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
(H-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concept) =
already used in CP managing multi-layer with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
something<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; does not exist =
at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Operators are used to managed their CP =
network together<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; NMS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Most of the NMS =
work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; would force NMS =
to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implementation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We should also =
keep in mind that multi-stage label approach<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
can<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in some cases (not for all the one-hop =
multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; muxing)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will bring some management issues. Please =
see the slides<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent a few days =
ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For both these =
reasons the &quot;optional&quot; condition of =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for =
us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio, =
Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate =
(Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 =
4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand =
on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it =
seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: sabato 18 =
giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai =
Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - =
Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: =
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We can =
certainly say that a node that advertises =
multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support in =
routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I said =
before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
same<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
LSP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints to establish intermediate =
switching stages seems<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
ill-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; considered and forcing everyone to support =
two ways of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multistage LSPs =
seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 17, =
2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)&quot; =
&lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I understand =
that you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should also =
convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
label is supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not agree =
with this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Implementations using H-LSPs plus single =
stage labels are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
possible<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; already =
standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new =
switching type is not enough to clearly tell =
what<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supported.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
venerd</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 17 giugno 2011 =
2.09<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO); Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; =
BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
(SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; =
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ong'; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Actually we are =
already covered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching type, =
which is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
means<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; get to define the signaling used for this =
switching type,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I =
am<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposing that we use =
multistage.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI, =
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan =
Rao; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Zhang;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Caviglia; =
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I&nbsp; agree =
with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in my mind this =
means that single stage label support is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicit<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage =
labels should not be used unless a machine<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; declares the =
support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pietro<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio =
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio =
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate =
(Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 =
4930<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: =
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand =
on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it =
seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
That's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. =
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Daniele =
Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
gioved</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 =
15.48<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; =
Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO =
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO); =
Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Starting a new =
thread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Assuming we =
still have not decided whether we're going to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single stage =
only, multi stage only or both of them i<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
believe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; per OSPF we =
need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An =
implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly =
been<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; told<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deprecate) is =
single stage based, so in case of multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
only<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage + single stage we should be =
able to cover<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; backward<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; compatibility =
issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
gioved</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C3=AC</span><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 =
8.53<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai =
Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
'Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF =
draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage Vs Single Stage =
labels)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I didn't want =
to allow interoperability options.&nbsp; I much<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; preferred<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; say that we do signaling in one way only, =
using multistage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
labels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; These are also needed for signaling =
within&nbsp; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Rajan Rao =
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele =
Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok =
Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO =
VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
'Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon =
Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; =
'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam =
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF =
draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage Vs Single Stage =
labels)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; While we are =
making updates, let us discuss support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
link<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertisement for single/multi-stage label =
options:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Given that =
there is interest in both multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
stage<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion =
of a FLAG to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; indicate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
what<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This will =
address some of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
we<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; have<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussed in =
the past relating to path computation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
involving<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; NEs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
with<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different capabilities =
(inter-op).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
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_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Tue Jul 12 20:15:29 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'Igor Bryskin' <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "'Sadler, Jonathan B.'" <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, 'Lou Berger' <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:13:36 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 12:20:47 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>during the last 80=
th
IETF in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Prague</st1:place></st=
1:City>,
we had a lot of discussion ,particularly with Rao and Khuzema , about the n=
eed
to advertise BW also for intermediate level of an OTN multiplexing hierarch=
y.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>At the end they co=
nvinced
me and Daniele of the need to have the possibility to provide information o=
n
how many FAs can be setup. I remember some scenarios in which these FAs are
used not only specifically in a single pont to point link (for as you named
containing LSP scope) but also by potentially other LSPs .<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>We in fact ad a no=
te in
the actual uploaded routing draft to mention the need for intermediate BW
adevertisement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>So , unless scenar=
ios
are changed , what Fatai is trying to make understandable (and Pietro as we=
ll)
is the fact that these intermediate layer exists in data plane , and must e=
xist
also at CP level .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Implicit option as=
 you
want does not permit any choice to use these FAs to be used only iin the co=
ntaining
LSP context but for example not use by another service to re-route traffic
using them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks <o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Besr Regards<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times=
 New Roman"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> marted=A8=AC 12 lug=
lio 2011
20.44<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryski=
n';
'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N
single stage vs multi stage</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We have had this discussion for se=
veral
weeks now.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regardless of which of the two met=
hods,
implicit or explicit, are used to establish them, these intermediate LSPs e=
xist
solely to &nbsp;support the ODUj service LSPs, so their creation and deleti=
on
should be driven what the ODUj service LSPs require.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I don=A1=AFt understand what it me=
ans to talk
of rerouting one of these intermediate LSPs because they exist only in the =
context
of the ODUk transport LSP and no one has been able to enlighten me.<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As we discussed last week with Pie=
tro,
there is nothing gained by re-signaling an intermediate LSP if one of its
endpoints fails. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Finally, you should either improve=
 the
tone of your emails or stop complaining about the tone of mine.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Fatai Zhang
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 11, 2011 =
11:03
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; 'Igor Brys=
kin';
'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you wa=
nt to
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally
want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H=
-LSPs
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3 color=3D"#005bd3" face=3DCalibri><sp=
an
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#005BD3'>[Fatai] This answer m=
eans
that &quot;You&quot; don't really want to delete, reroute, restore, etc.
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the top -of-the-stack LSP, but=
 it
does not mean that the operators don't want to do that, moreover,
&quot;You&quot; should not force the operators to do as what &quot;you&quot=
;
want (ie., we could provide the options to the operators, but we should not
force the operators to do something), because it will overthrow the
architecture of transport networks and the operators' habit to manage the
transport networks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font><s=
pan
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
Sent: 2011</span></font><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>7<=
/span><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=
=C2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>11</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'=
font-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span lang=3DZH-CN> </span><span lang=3DEN=
-US>19:04<br>
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
Cc: 'CCAMP'<br>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: Igor Bryskin
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:23 AM<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you wa=
nt to
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally
want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H=
-LSPs
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s =
and
the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; This could be done via suggested label sign=
aled
for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not c=
ontrol
plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>JD:&nbsp; We need to specify which ODU2 we are
referencing in order to perform call admission control of the subsequent OD=
U1s
and to set-up the data plane correctly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei=
.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler,
Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; What is the answer to Igor's question?<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Of Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: 2011</span></font><font face=3D"MS Go=
thic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>7</span><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=
=C2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 23:23<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you wa=
nt to
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally
want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H=
-LSPs
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s =
and
the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; This could be done via suggested label sign=
aled
for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not c=
ontrol
plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.n=
et]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:09 AM<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; If we have, for example, a containing
hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, the=
n with
multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; an intermediate stage switching ODU2 LSP is
implicitly created as part<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; of the signaling of the first ODU1.&nbsp; T=
he
ODU2 has capacity for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; additional ODU1s and the subsequent signali=
ng of
these ODU1s can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; I have email from you agreeing with this wh=
ich I
can trot out if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; necessary 8-&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; From: Igor Bryskin
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:02 AM=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.;=
 Lou
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single s=
tage
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; You said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or more interme=
diate
stage switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can b=
e
referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; signaling requests.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; What do you need the control plane sta=
te
for?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:47 A=
M<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single s=
tage
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Sadler, Jonathan B.
[mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:=
26 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Lou Berger<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN sin=
gle
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; This seems ambiguous depending on=
 the
scope of the term &quot;LSP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; This<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; can refer to a dataplane construc=
t or
to a control plane construct.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Doesn't the term LSP typical=
ly
refer to both aspects?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; I assume you mean &quot;The signa=
ling
of an ODUj LSP automatically<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; creates<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the lower-layer dataplane LSP to
support it in addition to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; service<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or more interme=
diate
stage switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can b=
e
referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; signaling requests.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is all done without addition=
al
signaling sessions for the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; lower-layer dataplane LSP.&quot;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; This is accomplished without
explicit signaling of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; intermediate stage switching LSPs?<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can you validate the above statem=
ent?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58=
 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN sin=
gle
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP
automatically creates the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; intermediate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage LSPs necessary to
support it within the containing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical ODUk LSP'<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, &quot=
;Lou
Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think all understand that =
the
question relates to if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; there<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is a<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; requirement to support signa=
ling
multiple stages in a single LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do I need to write =
to
make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you disagree, please reph=
rase
as you think is sufficient to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; make<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; question clear.<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E=
 Drake
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As I think I have writte=
n at
least two or three times over the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; past<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; day or so, I don't think=
 the
requirement as originally written<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; revised is useful becaus=
e both
or the two methods under<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; will meet it.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do I need to write =
to
make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49=
 AM,
&quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; So John,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From my list:<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) is REQ: (answer y=
es/no,
feel free to elaborate)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2A) A real requireme=
nt?
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2B) A complete non-g=
oal?
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2C) Useful, if can f=
ind a
reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2D) Just don't care?
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Are you a &quot;yes&=
quot;
in 2C or 2D?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; PS I think we have 1=
 yes
on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM,=
 John E
Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Since folks don'=
t seem
to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; about<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using 'intermedi=
ate
switching stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP'?<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To answer your
question, I don't agree with your second<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; paragraph.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I thought I had =
made
it clear that I would prefer one method,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either sequentia=
l Path
messages or multi-stage labels, to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; establish<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; intermediate swi=
tching
stage LSPs, but not both.&nbsp; There is no<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reason to suppor=
t
both.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jul 2, 2011, =
at
9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Do you agree wit=
h my
second paragraph in my email below?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If not, I would =
like
to step further to make something<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; explicit.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let's continue t=
his
example below. If there is no enough<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; resource<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on link BC or CD=
 (or
both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Node C can not s=
upport
ODU3 switching but support ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; termination,<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; how you can crea=
te ODU0
connection with multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explai=
n a
little more?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original M=
essage
-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E
Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai
Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt; ; 'Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
Bryskin'&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; 'GRANDI, P=
IETRO
VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vitto=
rio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, Ju=
ly 01,
2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Please see the e=
mail I
just sent to the CCAMP&nbsp; mailing list in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; response to Piet=
ro</span></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s email.&nbsp; I think it also addresses the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; points<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in your email, b=
elow,
and I would appreciate a line-by-line<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; analys<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is of it by you.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhan=
g
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June
30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OK, Let</span></=
font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s converge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think you will=
 agree
that multi-stage labels can only be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; some cases rathe=
r than
universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this example<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; below, we can cr=
eate
ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing (ie.,
ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; FA<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP and then use=
 one
single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; these<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two ways, there =
is no
need to use multi-stage labels. I think<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can understand t=
hat
these two ways are better and more<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than your approa=
ch
(two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we =
are
merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; give the flexibi=
lity
for the people to choose what they prefer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage muxi=
ng
scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage labels in =
some
cases. We have figured out a perfect<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; unified<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solution. If peo=
ple
like multi-stage labels, they can choose<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach to use.=
 If
people do not like multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; they<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just choose sing=
le
stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Dra=
ke
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>30</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>
12:13<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO (PIETRO
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I had one
clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; links,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in which case th=
e </span></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AE</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>containing hierarchical LSP</span><font face=3D"Courier New"><=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US>
is the link</span><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-family:
"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>s<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OUDk/OTUk, and t=
hey
would be more efficient than signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; multipl<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e one hop sub-la=
yer
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; However, I serio=
usly
doubt than this will be a common case,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; because<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; having awareness=
 of
individual ODUjs in the core of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; network<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; inherently less
scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchical LSP=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Dra=
ke
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>30</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>
11:37<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang;=
 'Igor
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhan=
g
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday,=
 June
29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, you admit th=
at
ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; by<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labe=
l
approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODU0 request? be=
cause
you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; already there.<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp;
Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in an<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; email<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent you and oth=
ers
some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; create the conta=
ining
hierarchical&nbsp; LSP first and then use it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish&nbsp; =
OUDj
client&nbsp; LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needed, with the
sub-layer LSPs being established using one of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two proposals be=
ing
discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A few points for
clarification, even though I follow your<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How to create th=
e ODU3
FA before ODU0 request? I think it is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; still<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; H-LSP concept th=
ere.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp;
Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; holds<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it, establishes =
the
ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; then *either*<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D =
and
then<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; sends<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ODU0 Path me=
ssage
to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along wit=
h
the multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label for the OD=
U2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 FA betwe=
en B
and D is already there, the FA should be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; regarded as one-=
hop,
because there is no difference between<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FA and one-hop l=
ink.
So, this scenario should be treated as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scenario rather =
than
multi-hop (Please pay attention to this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sentence that we=
 are
trying to make you understood many<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; times).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I told
Sergio and you&nbsp; last week that I didn</span></font><font face=3D"Couri=
er New"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t
think mul<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ti-st<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; age labels for l=
inks
(one hop) were interesting or useful, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; tha<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t I only conside=
red
them useful in the context of multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; multis<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; tage hierarchica=
l
LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; hiera<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rchical LSP is b=
etween
that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 between =
B and
D is already there based on this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; example,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; why<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it needs to use =
two
stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; just<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; use the simple o=
ne
stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; review<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; our slides again=
 to
get more information about cons of multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing(slide 5).=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; You co=
uld,
if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; figure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; had mentally edi=
ted
out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that we had<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting scen=
ario
to discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Dra=
ke
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>29</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DZH-CN> </span><span
lang=3DEN-US>23:39<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang;=
 'Igor
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let</span></font=
><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between n<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ode B<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and node D over =
which
we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; s<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ub-layer hierarc=
hical
LSP approach, we would signal a sub-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; layer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; OD<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; U2 hierarchical =
LSP
between B and D and then signal the ODU0.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Wit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; h multi-stage la=
bels
we would signal the ODU0 and include an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I have repeat=
edly
said, either can be made to work with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; some<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; non-<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero amount of e=
ffort,
but my preference is for multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; labels,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; strictly from an
efficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn</span></font><font face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t
enough<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diffe<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rence between th=
e two
approaches to warrant standardizing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; both.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhan=
g
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday,=
 June
29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Agree with Igor =
that
let emotions aside if there was some<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; improper<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wording. Let</sp=
an></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you clarif=
y your
point 1) a little more? Here is a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; simple<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example shown be=
low.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explai=
n how
to create ODU0 connection from Node A to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Node<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E by multi-stage
labels approach? What information (e.g.,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; traffic<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; parameters, labe=
ls)
should be carried in the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; message?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What action shou=
ld be
taken for Node C when receiving the Path<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Resv message?<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;image001.png=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org=
]&gt;
On Behalf Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>29</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>
6:12<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Igor Bryskin=
;
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a few
clarifications.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-s=
tage
labels apply equally well to multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs. (The is th=
e
point some people do not seem to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; understand.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)&nbsp; It is
incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; works<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for the establis=
hment
of a hierarchical LSP that supports<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage switching.=
&nbsp;
This involves a nested set of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSPs,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the containing
hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provide context =
for
intermediate stage labels, between the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; same<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; two<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints.&nbsp;=
 This
is a new construct and there are almost<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; certainly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; details to be wo=
rked
out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3)&nbsp; I don't=
 think
we should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; would<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prefer that the
working group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Igor B=
ryskin
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesda=
y,
June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, =
PIETRO
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE:=
 RSVP
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Pietro,<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You may not =
like
John's tone, but emotions aside, what he<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; keeps<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; saying<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; repeatedly i=
n this
discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The point=
 of CP
signaling is to convey information<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; pertinent<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network elem=
ent
provisioning in most efficient way. It does<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; seem<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stupid<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to signal nu=
merous
one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sufficient a=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single end-t=
o-end
round of signaling to do the job), create<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; numerous ext=
ra CP
states, take care of all restart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; implications,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; etc.<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just to be
consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Besides, =
you
can think of multi-stage label as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; identification<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of a<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; new type of
network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; god-<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fathers woul=
d
agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; control the<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; resources
described in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Finally, =
no one
ever said that you cannot orchestrate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provisioning
through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; do<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cheers,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of GRANDI, P=
IETRO
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesda=
y,
June 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E D=
rake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re:
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello John,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) You have
forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; private<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mails withou=
t
asking the permission to the involved people.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; This<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impolite and
unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) You are
creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; threads<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are eac=
h
hundreds of lines long and very complicated to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; follow for<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; people not
involved in the discussion since the beginning.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Moreover,<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this happene=
d
after a discussion from scratch was already<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; started in<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the mailing =
list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) You moved=
 from
a technical discussion to arrogant and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deliberate<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personal off=
enses
not supported by any sound technical<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; motivation a=
s<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported in =
your
mails and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;This s=
hows a
complete lack of understanding of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage
labels, and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrong.&quot;=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot; It mi=
ght be
more precise to say I reviewed your slides and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; found<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them, shall =
we
say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We hope that=
 from
now on the discussion can be continued from<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; purely<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technical po=
int of
view.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Serg=
io and
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vitto=
rio
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial =
Optics
Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Luce=
nt
Vimercate (<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Italy</st=
1:place></st1:country-region>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039=
 686
4930<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail:
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your han=
d on a
hot stove for a minute, and it seems like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a p=
retty
girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein=
)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of John E Dr=
ake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=
</span></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A8=AC</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [CC=
AMP]
FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E=
 Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursd=
ay,
June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: 'Fatai Z=
hang';
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinay=
akam
Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li=
 Dan;
NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena =
-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; =
Steve
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERG=
IO);
Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE:=
 RSVP
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inl=
ine.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Ori=
ginal
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fa=
tai
Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent:
Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRAN=
DI,
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick=
; Li
Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ci=
ena -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon O=
ng;
Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO
(SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject:=
 Re:
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I guess =
that
you did not review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I =
will
let this pass.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You just=
 see
the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establis=
h<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-la=
yers
LSP concurrently), but you did not see the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; describe=
d in
the slides and the issues that Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; mentioned<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (eg.,<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OAM/prot=
ection
issues).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'=
m
sorry that I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I don't<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; think the<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one-hop
hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting =
or
common and it was not the case to which I was<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; addressing<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; my comments.=
&nbsp;
Rather, I was describing two ways of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; establishing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hop multi-st=
age
hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan rai=
sed in
this context are red herrings rather than<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; blue<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whales.&nbsp=
;
Furthermore, regardless of which of the two<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; approaches<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described is=
 used,
the issues, if any, would be exactly the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; same.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addit=
ion,
we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; must be<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in =
many
cases, even though we have multi-stage label<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach=
.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E.g., an=
 ODU0
connection request from A to E through B, C<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; D,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; but<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; B,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C and&nb=
sp; D
(or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; HO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUj<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ODU1 or=
 ODU2
or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and D<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through =
LSP
hierarchy. This example is very simple and there<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lots<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of trans=
forms
for this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Pl=
ease
see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; simply<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pointing out=
 that
multi-stage labels can be used to improve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; wrt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; latency<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and control =
plane
overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage
hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Or=
iginal
Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&quot;John E Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake=
@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
&quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lucent.c=
om&gt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
&quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson=
.com&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rao&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infine=
ra.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zha=
ngfatai@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan=
&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kp=
ithewan@infinera.com&lt;mailto:kpithewan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; @infinera.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mailt=
o:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Diego Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&lt;mailto:=
di<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; ego.caviglia@ericsson.com<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&g=
t;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&lt;mailto:S<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; teve.Balls@metaswitch.com<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xi=
hua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; m.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;NSN - Cyril Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto:c=
yril.mar<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; garia@nsn.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Li
Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@huawei.com&lt;mailto=
:huawei.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; danli@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Hardw=
ic<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; k@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonath=
an.sadler@tellabs.com&lt;mailto:jo<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; nathan.sadler@tellabs.com<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@junip=
er.net<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent:
Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject:=
 RE:
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If we ar=
e
talking about the establishment of LSPs using<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; single-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing, =
I
think the only thing necessary is a new label<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; format,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; believe =
is a
bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; establishment<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-s=
tage
muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have =
never
had a situation such as multi-stage muxing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so we<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are brea=
king
new ground and we have two choices, either use<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarch=
y to
establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and
sequentially, or include the sub-layer information<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Path<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; message =
for
the ODUj such that the sub-layers are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; established<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicit=
ly and
concurrently with the establishment of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; ODUj.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Either w=
ill
work, but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; efficient<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrt late=
ncy
and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; do is to=
 say
that both are supported.&nbsp; If we can agree that<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only use=
 one
method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; node<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertis=
es
multi-stage support in routing, we know how<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; signalin=
g is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be
accomplished.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent fro=
m my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: =
John E
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELO=
TTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s;
Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li D=
an;
Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It s=
eems
as though you consider on the same level something<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (H-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; conc=
ept)
already used in CP managing multi-layer with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; something<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; does=
 not
exist at all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Oper=
ators
are used to managed their CP network together<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; NMS.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Most=
 of
the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; woul=
d
force NMS to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
implementation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We s=
hould
also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used=
 in
some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; muxing)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it<o:p><=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will=
 bring
some management issues. Please see the slides<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fata=
i<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent=
 a few
days ago.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For =
both
these reasons the &quot;optional&quot; condition of multi-<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; conc=
ept is
absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro,
Sergio, Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
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</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=
=3D"on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel:=
 +39
039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail=
:
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put =
your
hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit =
with a
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A.
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
: John
E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELO=
TTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s;
Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li D=
an;
Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We c=
an
certainly say that a node that advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supp=
ort in
routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I=
 said
before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; same<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endp=
oints
to establish intermediate switching stages seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; ill-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; cons=
idered
and forcing everyone to support two ways of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mult=
istage
LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
 from
my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On J=
un 17,
2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@al=
catel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hell=
o
John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I
understand that you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rout=
ing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shou=
ld
also convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
multi-stage label is supported.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do=
 not
agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; poss=
ible<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (and<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; alre=
ady
standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the =
new
switching type is not enough to clearly tell what<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supporte=
d.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
: John
E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
venerd</span></font><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:
"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raja=
n Rao;
Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (SER=
GIO);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Asho=
k
Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ong'=
;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Actu=
ally
we are already covered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; swit=
ching
type, which is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; means<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; get =
to
define the signaling used for this switching type,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I am=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prop=
osing
that we use multistage.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Than=
ks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
 from
my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mai=
lto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Zhang;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Khuzema<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;
BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cavi=
glia;
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi a=
ll,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I&nb=
sp;
agree with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in m=
y mind
this means that single stage label support is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impl=
icit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; expl=
icitly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; decl=
ares
the support.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=
=3D"on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel:=
 +39
039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail=
:
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@al=
catel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put =
your
hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit =
with a
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A.
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
gioved</span></font><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:
"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 15.48=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: =
John E
Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERG=
IO
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (PIETRO<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITT=
ORIO);
Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Star=
ting a
new thread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Assu=
ming
we still have not decided whether we're going to<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supp=
ort<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sing=
le
stage only, multi stage only or both of them i<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; believe<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; per =
OSPF
we need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An
implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; told<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; not<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; depr=
ecate)
is single stage based, so in case of multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; only<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; backward<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dani=
ele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
: John
E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
gioved</span></font><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:
"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 8.53<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: =
Rajan
Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BEL=
OTTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s';
'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stag=
e Vs
Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raja=
n,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I di=
dn't
want to allow interoperability options.&nbsp; I much<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pref=
erred<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; say =
that
we do signaling in one way only, using multistage<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; labe=
ls.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thes=
e are
also needed for signaling within&nbsp; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Than=
ks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
 from
my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BEL=
OTTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s';
'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;=
mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
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></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p><=
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></font></p>

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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Whil=
e we
are making updates, let us discuss support<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; required<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; link<o:p></o=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Give=
n that
there is interest in both multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sing=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with
H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; indicate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; what<o:p></o=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the =
link
is capable of.&nbsp; This will address some of the<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; have<o:p></o=
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<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; disc=
ussed
in the past relating to path computation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; involving<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; NEs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diff=
erent
capabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Than=
ks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raja=
n<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailin=
g list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailin=
g list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing li=
st<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From RKunze@telekom.de  Wed Jul 13 05:14:42 2011
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From: <RKunze@telekom.de>
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:12:59 +0200
Thread-Topic: New drafts addressing the manangement and control of optical interfaces 698.2
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Hi all,

after the discussion we received at IETF Prague meeting and having proposed=
 the draft to ITU-T, we did some
changes and renamed the following drafts dealing with the management of opt=
ical interfaces based on ITU-T 698.2 standard.
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kunze-g-698-2-management-control-framework=
-00
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galimbe-kunze-g-698-2-snmp-mib-00
Both documents focus exclusive on ITU-T specified data plane technologies.
For the authors it is important to find a home within the IETF and we think=
 CCAMP is the right base to do this work.
Please send your comments to list.

Authors of the both documents





Deutsche Telekom AG
Group Technology
R=FCdiger Kunze
Goslarer Ufer 35, 10589 Berlin
+49 30 3497 - 3152 (Tel.)
+49 30 3497 - 3153 (Fax)
+49 1702275321 (Mobil)
E-Mail: Ruediger.Kunze@telekom.de
www.telekom.com<http:www.telekom.com>

Life is for sharing.

Deutsche Telekom AG
Supervisory Board: Prof. Dr. Ulrich Lehner (Chairman)
Board of Management: Ren=E9 Obermann (Chairman),
Dr. Manfred Balz, Reinhard Clemens, Niek Jan van Damme,
Timotheus H=F6ttges, Guido Kerkhoff, Edward R. Kozel, Thomas Sattelberger
Commercial register: Amtsgericht Bonn HRB 6794
Registered office: Bonn
VAT identification no. DE 123475223

Big changes start small - conserve resources by not printing every e-mail.




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<div>Hi all,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>after the discussion we received at IETF Prague meeting and having pro=
posed the draft to ITU-T, we did some </div>
<div>changes and renamed the following drafts dealing with the management o=
f optical interfaces based on ITU-T 698.2 standard.</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kunze-g-698-2-management-c=
ontrol-framework-00"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-kunze-g-698-2-management-control-framework-00</u></font></a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galimbe-kunze-g-698-2-snmp=
-mib-00"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galimb=
e-kunze-g-698-2-snmp-mib-00</u></font></a></div>
<div>Both documents focus exclusive on ITU-T specified data plane technolog=
ies.</div>
<div>For the authors it is important to find a home within the IETF and we =
think CCAMP is the right base to do this work.</div>
<div>Please send your comments to list.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Authors of the both documents</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Deutsche=
 Telekom AG</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Group Te=
chnology</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">R=FCdige=
r Kunze</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Goslarer=
 Ufer 35, 10589 Berlin</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">&#43;49 =
30 3497 - 3152 (Tel.)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">&#43;49 =
30 3497 - 3153 (Fax)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">&#43;49 =
1702275321 (Mobil)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">E-Mail: =
Ruediger.Kunze@telekom.de</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999"><a href=
=3D"http:www.telekom.com">www.telekom.com</a></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#E20074">&nbsp;</=
font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#E20074">Life is =
for sharing.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">&nbsp;</=
font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Deutsche=
 Telekom AG</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Supervis=
ory Board: Prof. Dr. Ulrich Lehner (Chairman)</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Board of=
 Management: Ren=E9 Obermann (Chairman),<br>

Dr. Manfred Balz, Reinhard Clemens, Niek Jan van Damme,<br>

Timotheus H=F6ttges, Guido Kerkhoff, Edward R. Kozel, Thomas Sattelberger</=
font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Commerci=
al register: Amtsgericht Bonn HRB 6794</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">Register=
ed office: Bonn</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999">VAT iden=
tification no. DE 123475223</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1" color=3D"#999999"><b>Big c=
hanges start sma</b><b>ll </b><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif"><b>&#8211;<=
/b></font><b> conserve resources by not printing every e-mail.</b></font></=
div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"1">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
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From rrao@infinera.com  Wed Jul 13 06:22:44 2011
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From: Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, Mohit Misra <mmisra@infinera.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Lou,

The 4th LSP type (implicit-link LSP) is not very clear. This seems to repre=
sent the service-LSP which induces implicit H-LSPs (type #3).  In which cas=
e this should be a regular LSP (type#1) capable of inducing type#3.

We would like to retain "implicit-link" definition you had in your email ea=
rlier. To clarify, the "implicit-link" can have data plane representation w=
ith or without control plane representation (LSP).
In case of no control plane representation, the bandwidth of implicit-link =
is managed on the parent Te-Link.


The definition of "implicit-link" is same as you had before as follows:

"
1) "implicit-link"
   An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
   (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
   result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
   (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link may =
be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
"

To clarify, the multi-stage label proposed in draft-khuzema refers to "impl=
icit-link" creation without implicit H-LSPs.

Thanks
Rajan, Ashok & Khuzema.

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:58 AM
To: John E Drake
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage)



On 7/8/2011 5:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
...
>> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
>> and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-
>> LSPs.
>>
>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>>
>> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>>
>> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>>
>> Comments?
>=20
> JD: 1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and
Given that 1 is a "logical entity", I suspect you mean (and I agree)
that 3) is whay you were calling an intermediate switching stage LSP.

> 2) is what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?

agreed.

So this leaves us with 4 types of LSPs.

(old) LSPs
      LSPs that use explicit links
(old) H-LSPs
      LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
      explicitly controlled

(new) Implicit H-LSP
      LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
      controlled via implicit mechanisms
(new) implicit-link LSP
      LSPs that use / trigger Implicit H-LSPs

Comments?

Lou

>=20
>>
>> Lou
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
_______________________________________________
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, Mohit Misra <mmisra@infinera.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Rajan,
	See below for in-line responses.

On 7/13/2011 6:22 AM, Rajan Rao wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> The 4th LSP type (implicit-link LSP) is not very clear. This seems
> to represent the service-LSP which induces implicit H-LSPs (type #3). In
> which case this should be a regular LSP (type#1) capable of inducing type#3.

Well, in *theory* I agree there should be minimal difference between a
regular LSP and an implicit (link) LSP.  I think the degree of
difference will come down to the specific mechanism we define.

At this stage, where we are still don't have consensus on requirements,
I think we need to differentiate the two.

> 
> We would like to retain "implicit-link" definition you had in your
> email earlier. To clarify, the "implicit-link" can have data plane
> representation with or without control plane representation (LSP).

If there is a one-to-one correspondence between the control plane and
the link, it is a standard H-LSP.

> In case of no control plane representation, the bandwidth of
> implicit-link is managed on the parent Te-Link.

And I was referring to the lower-level of the hierarchy in the
data-plane as an "implicit H-LSP"

Also, as has been highlighted by the other discussions, there's more to
consider than just bandwidth.

> 
> 
> The definition of "implicit-link" is same as you had before as follows:
> 
> "
> 1) "implicit-link"
>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>     may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
> "
> 
> To clarify, the multi-stage label proposed in draft-khuzema refers
> to "implicit-link" creation without implicit H-LSPs.
> 

I must not have been clear in my previous mail.  An "implicit-link" (as
defined) is just a logical entity, i.e., a concept. An "implicit H-LSP"
(as defined) refers to the level of the hierarchy in the data-plane that
instantiates an implicit-link.  So, using these terms, draft-khuzema
refers to implicit-links that result in implicit H-LSPs.

Lou

> Thanks
> Rajan, Ashok & Khuzema.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger
> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:58 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/8/2011 5:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> ...
>>> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
>>> and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-
>>> LSPs.
>>>
>>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>>>
>>> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>>>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>>>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>>>
>>> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>>>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>>>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>>>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> JD: 1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and
> Given that 1 is a "logical entity", I suspect you mean (and I agree)
> that 3) is whay you were calling an intermediate switching stage LSP.
> 
>> 2) is what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?
> 
> agreed.
> 
> So this leaves us with 4 types of LSPs.
> 
> (old) LSPs
>       LSPs that use explicit links
> (old) H-LSPs
>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>       explicitly controlled
> 
> (new) Implicit H-LSP
>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>       controlled via implicit mechanisms
> (new) implicit-link LSP
>       LSPs that use / trigger Implicit H-LSPs
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Lou
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 13 08:44:09 2011
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From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:44:05 +0200
Thread-Topic: Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re:[CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Subject: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,

As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by dr=
aft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through,
I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals wit=
h change 1: =20
Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which allows the=
 definition of several resource entites per node independantly floodable.
MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or tea=
r down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same connectivity=
 constraints).

Best Regards,

Pierre

[SNIP]

>>>       1. Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model,=20
>>> which allows the definition of several resource entites per node=20
>>> independantly floodable.
>>> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup=20
>>> or tear down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same=20
>>> connectivity constraints)
>> -->  There is already a standard mechanism in OSPF-TE for achieving =20
>> --> this
>> (multiple LSA instances) which is already in common use in MPLS and=20
>> GMPLS so this change is unneeded. The current WSON encoding model=20
>> includes very fine granularity in sub-TLVs hence this change would=20
>> not achieve the stated "MOTIVATION" any better than the current approach=
.
> The change proposed by draft-peloso does mandate (implicitly, this=20
> should be definitely changed) to have one LSA instance per top level TLV.
--> Hmm, other GMPLS specifications go the other way and restrict the
number of top level TLVs (usually one) per LSA.
This top level TLV is viewed as a container for a given type of information=
. If we have more than one "item" of information of a particular type you h=
ave the option of putting them in separate LSA instances. All the LSA insta=
nces together form the link state database and are used in path computation=
.  OSPF's reliable flooding mechanism will make sure the information gets t=
here.  Note, that unlike the IP routing case where slightly out of date inf=
ormation can cause loops/blackholes, in the GMPLS case at worse the signali=
ng request will fail somewhere along the path selected.
-->[Pierre]
My first comment here is that in our current case, WSON extensions are load=
ing the CP heavily with various information, then as long as possible, the =
intent here is to avoid cranck-back. If cranck-back is not dammageable, it =
is as efficient to rely on a distributed wavelength assignment for which cu=
rrent GMPLS, possibly improved with signalling extensions provided in the r=
elevant draft is sufficient. To sum-up my point, I personnaly hope that we =
are not doing all this work, to reach the conclusion that no better than wi=
thout all these extensions if the signaling fails it is not important.=20

> The solution of current WG-drafts is less explicit regarding how many=20
> TLVs should/may be flooded.
--> This is implementation and situation specific.
> Would you then elaborate with text in the drafts giving recommendations
>   on how to process different LSA instances referring to same sub-TLVs=20
> in the wson specific case.
--> We can add informative text to further explain the process. We'll
bring in some proposed text to Quebec City.
> The processing is not explicitly stated, according to=20
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-11, there is one ResourcePool per node and
> draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-04 state that this=20
> ResourcePool is contained in the "Optical Node Property TLV".
>
> So according to the draft a LSP setup would impact the following sub-TLVs=
 :
>    - "Resource Pool State Sub-TLV" : number of available device is change=
d
>    - "Block Shared Access Wavelength Availability Sub-TLV " is also=20
> updated
>
> Should this be new instances or reuse existing instances? How to merge th=
e information?
--> Think of the Optical Node Property TLV as the master container that
the OSPF working group has allocated to us. They have very limited "code sp=
ace" and hence want us to use all existing mechanisms rather than asking th=
em for more top level TLVs. Note all of GMPLS uses just one type of LSA.
We would not want to mix large amounts of static information (pool
accessibility) and dynamic information (pool state or shared access
state) in the same LSA instance.  So we could generally do something like t=
he following schematic:
             LSA instance #1{ Node_Prop_TLV[Pools accessibility]}
             LSA instance #2{ Node_Prop_TLV[Resource info]}
             LSA instance #3{ Node_Prop_TLV[Pools accessibility]}
             LSA instance #4{ Node_Prop_TLV[Shared wave state]}
A similar process can be used with link information where the top level con=
tainer was defined way back in early MPLS days.
-->[Pierre]
When reading the preceding part, I end-up to the conclusion that when final=
ly explicited, you finally prone something very similar to draft-peloso-cca=
mp-wson-ospf-oeo, which I am happy with, as it means, we can then certainly=
 sort out the details. As I see, you are only differing in that you do not =
dare defining an explicit top-level TLV type for each of your type of LSA i=
nstance.
I understand that your motivation there comes from OSPF WG having allocated=
 us a very limited "code space". That is not something I am aware of, would=
 you provide the WG with reference(s) to this statement?=

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From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:44:08 +0200
Thread-Topic: Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re:[CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4DF654C6.3070304@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2027CAC27@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	A <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com> <4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,

As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by dr=
aft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through,
I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals wit=
h change 2: =20
Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in order to d=
escribe connectivity constraints between node-external links and the resour=
ce pools.
MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for OSPF-TE=
 inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit the number of co=
nnectivity representations introduced by current extensions (draft-ietf-rwa=
-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs)

Best Regards,

Pierre

[SNIP]=20

>>>       2. Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node=20
>>> entity in order to describe connectivity constraints between=20
>>> node-external links and the resource pools.
>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for=20
>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit=20
>>> the number of connectivity representations introduced by current=20
>>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs=
).
>>>
>> -->  This change mixes information from "general constraints" with=20
>> --> "wson
>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the=20
>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change=20
>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable=20
>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include=20
>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,=20
>> hence this change is unnecessary.
> My co-authors and myself are aware of your interpretation of this=20
> solution as being a mixing of generic and wson specific extensions.
> Actually we are not sharing this interpretation, we consider this=20
> solution as complying with the decision you're refering too.
> The resulting connectivity matrix does not contains any FEC,=20
> wavelength, modulation format information.
> This kind of information is still separated in different elements.
> Hence what you're interpreting as a mixing of wson and generic=20
> extensions is nothing but the use in a generic element of unnumbered IDs.
> By nature, all of these unnumbered IDs being defined in different=20
> LSAs, as was already planned current WG drafts.
> Considering that depending on the type of LSA which define these IDs,=20
> the WG decision is betrayed or not is a position I let you advocate.
--> But there is nothing to be gained from these changes spacewise. As
someone who has been working on the drafts since 2007 we originally separat=
ed the information, then combined the information, then separated the infor=
mation based on the WG decision. Since this change doesn't fix anything, at=
 this point we should leave it as it is.

-->Pierre
What is to be gained is a little bit of space as all the information is con=
centrated in one entity, which enhances the overall compactness, but nothin=
g big, I conceed.
Regarding the simplification of the extensions, this is not negligible disc=
arding a sub-TLV that is redundant with another one, and hence enhances the=
 coherence of the work.
And a document being at the stage of a WG document was not frozen in my und=
erstanding of it.=20

From pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 13 08:44:18 2011
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From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:44:13 +0200
Thread-Topic: Change 3: Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information (was Re:[CCAMP] Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4DF654C6.3070304@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2027CAC27@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	A <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com> <4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Change 3: Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,

As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by dr=
aft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through,
I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals wit=
h change 3: =20
Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to keep only resource=
/device description (moved the number of devices away).
MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same devices) blo=
cks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of information. b/ to creat=
e an independent flooding entity holding all the resource descriptions (whi=
ch are static), the decreasing the size of updated information.

Best Regards,

Pierre

[SNIP]=20
>>>       3. Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to=20
>>> keep only resource/device description (moved the number of devices away=
).
>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same
>>> devices) blocks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of=20
>>> information. b/ to create an independent flooding entity holding all=20
>>> the resource descriptions (which are static), the decreasing the=20
>>> size of updated information.
>> -->  This change (a) does not result in any size savings, and (b) is=20
>> --> not
>> necessary to "to create an independent flooding entity holding all=20
>> the resource descriptions".  Resource block information is already a=20
>> separate sub-TLV and the current resource block set mechanism=20
>> provides a highly efficient method to indicate which resources blocks=20
>> are associated with a particular type of resource.
>>
> I consider the contradiction to your statement is in the example=20
> you've been providing in the email: "Current WSON encodings...".
> In this example there are 200 wavelength converters of 10 different=20
> types, spread over 4 physical pools/WC group.
> Following the Resource Block definition, that gives 40 of those each=20
> having a priori different number of wavelength converters.
> So, a priori 40 different Resource Block Informations TLVs are needed,=20
> which change significantly the size of the LSA.
--> Hmm, this is where we seem to differ. The example shows that we have
one information encoding for each type of resource which gives 10 and not 4=
0.  The Resource Block Info sub-TLV begins with an RB Set Field which speci=
fies in compact form all the resource blocks that are of this particular ty=
pe. This was changed in the transition from the 09 to the 10 (published 3/1=
4/2011). Hence I guess the Peloso-03 analysis was based on the old version =
and is no longer applicable.

-->Pierre:
Thanks, for your answer Greg, but I am worried you answered without reading=
 the whole point provided by Cyril.
At the stage, you've been answering, Cyril was stating what the logics of t=
he draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info induces the reader to do, namely, use the reso=
urce blocks to achieve efficient encodings, I'm quoting the draft below (se=
ction 5):
"For modeling purposes and encoding efficiency identical processing resourc=
es such as regenerators or wavelength converters with identical limitations=
, and processing and accessibility properties are grouped into "blocks". Su=
ch blocks can consist of a single resource, though grouping resources into =
blocks leads to more efficient encodings."
And in the part of the email, below Cyril (and ourselves as well) is challe=
nging the fact that for efficient encoding you end-up using a single resour=
ce per block, enforcing a proper resource block ID (then equivalent to reso=
urce ID) that allows efficient encoding as you can then luckily encode reso=
urce block sets with ID ranges. This is a very specific case, that effectiv=
ely enables efficient encoding, but at which cost?
Then some questions were raised at the end of the email, like:=20
   - Is this analysis correct, is it the reason why the max-number of resou=
rces was not included in your example or is there another reason?

--> only need one of these per type of resource:

     0                   1                   2                   3
     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                     RB Set Field                              |
    :         List of resource WC IDs that are of this type         |
    |         Length in words =3D 1 + ceil{(Num WC total)/(2*NT)}     |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |0|0|                      Reserved                             |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |           Input Modulation Type List Sub-Sub-TLV              |
    :        (The receivers can only process NRZ)                   :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |           Input FEC Type List Sub-Sub-TLV                     |
    :           (Only Standard SDH and G.709 FECs)                  :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Input Client Signal Type Sub-TLV                      |
    :              (GPIDs for SDH and G.709)                        :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Input Bit Rate Range List  Sub-Sub-TLV                |
    :                          (2.5Gbps, 10Gbps)                    :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Processing Capabilities List Sub-Sub-TLV              |
    :                    Fixed (non optional) 3R regeneration       :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Output Modulation Type List Sub-Sub-TLV               |
    :                          NRZ                                  :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |         Output FEC Type List Sub-Sub-TLV                      |
    :                 Standard SDH, G.709 FECs                      :
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

> By  giving-up the definition of Resource Block with the max-number, it=20
> creates then 200 of those (one per wavelength converter).
> This results in associating each individual wavelength converter to a=20
> one of the 10 different Resource Block Information TLV created.
> Applying our solution, demands to determine 40 Resource Block IDs,=20
> then to define 10 different Resource Description TLV, associated each wit=
h 4 of the preceding Resource Block IDs.
>
> Is this analysis correct, is it the reason why the max-number of=20
> resources was not included in your example or is there another reason?

From leeyoung@huawei.com  Wed Jul 13 09:32:40 2011
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4DF654C6.3070304@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2027CAC27@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> A <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com> <4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694D324@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Pierre,

In regards to the top-level TLV discussion, please recall what you have agr=
eed while ago from the archive.=20
Between you and Fatai and Greg and Acee and myself, we basically agreed wha=
t I proposed:=20

=B7         Use existing Node Attribute TLV for the connectivity matrix enc=
oding

=B7         Create ONE NEW top level node TLV (name to TBD) to encode all t=
he optical resource related information.=20

As Greg, mentioned, we do NOT need to create multiple top level TLV's one f=
or static and another for dynamic -- multi-instance is good enough, which h=
as been well adopted practice. I just appended the archived emails to remin=
d you what you have agreed in the past -- I thought this issue has been res=
olved clearly in the past.=20

CCAMPers, please pardon me attaching a long list of email, but I just wante=
d to recall the WG what we have nailed down already with respect to one of =
the issues Pierre raised again recently.=20

Thanks.

Young

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-----
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]=
=20
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

To: Greg Bernstein <gregb at grotto-networking.com>, Acee Lindem <acee.lind=
em at ericsson.com>=20
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensi=
ons to OSPF (long)=20
From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso at alcatel-lucent.com>=20
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 22:19:56 +0100=20
Accept-language: fr-FR, en-US=20
Acceptlanguage: fr-FR, en-US=20
Cc: CCAMP <ccamp at ietf.org>=20
Delivered-to: ccamp at core3.amsl.com=20
In-reply-to: <4D2DF17C.3000407 at grotto-networking.com>=20
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References: <4D07B635.1030503 at grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494=
DEC3285C0581521269ED11D9 at FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4D21FF=
94.8090205 at grotto-networking.com> <F0BB74A9-08FC-4751-A72C-1899A0C73C9A =
at ericsson.com> <4D26072B.8040902 at grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF9=
84494DEC3285C0581521269FA5E69 at FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <7=
45A5455E5D14361B3311D49116C8976 at china.huawei.com> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE7=
1C2C87E8E1736A6D4 at DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <01D37ACD-AB16-4666-82=
52-517538B40484 at ericsson.com> <4D2DF17C.3000407 at grotto-networking.com=
>=20
Thread-index: AcuyhcIrC8w+Q4OFQnWD57z9idnFawBqHDvg=20
Thread-topic: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extens=
ions to OSPF (long)=20

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
Hi everyone,
=20
Point 1: I do agree as well to have a top level TLV for the connectivity ma=
trix and another type of top level TLV to place the information related to =
oeo encoding.
Then I feel that we can conclude as agreed the usage of TE node attribute f=
or the connectivity matrix.
=20
Point 2: Regarding the oeo, creating a new type of TLV is a perfect solutio=
n, that I am supporting for sure.
Once this being agreed and before jumping too fast in editing http://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf/, I am c=
onvinced that it is the right time to discuss how the encodings provided in=
 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-07.txt can be =
organized in the newly created top level TLV. Actually, for my part I see d=
ifferent options to take the best of this novelty concerning this layout of=
 encodings.
=20
Hence, as a WG, we have here a genuine opportunity to examine these options=
, thus possibly addressing during this review how those difference in layou=
ts can influence the size of the corresponding LSA in order for those to fi=
t in a single MTU as often as possible, while insuring OSPF scalability.
=20
[For clarification needs, I do not mean changing the inner content of the e=
ncodings, I would just make sure that the way they are gathered inside the =
newly created top-level TLV is addressing everyone needs.]
=20
Any comments?
=20
Regards to all,
=20
Pierre



---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
De : Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb at grotto-networking.com]=20
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 janvier 2011 19:23
=C0 : Acee Lindem
Cc : Leeyoung; Fatai Zhang; PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE); CCAMP
Objet : Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensio=
ns to OSPF (long)


Hi Acee, Young, Fatai and Pierre,=20
the approach outlined below by Young and Acee below sounds great to me!
Best Regards
Greg
On 1/11/2011 5:34 PM, Acee Lindem wrote:=20
Hi Young, Fatai, and Greg, =20


I'm not too concerned about lifting the restriction on the single TE LSA co=
ntaining the TE Node Attribute TLV. In fact, we are removing this restricti=
on for ASON single in order for a control place node to advertise reachabil=
ity information for more than one node in the transport place. However, I s=
till don't think that the WSON switching capabilities belong here. As for t=
he general constraints document, this looks more along the lines of what co=
uld go here.=20


Thanks,
Acee


On Jan 11, 2011, at 5:21 PM, Leeyoung wrote:


Hi Pierre, Greg and Fatai,


I tend to agree with Fatai. Since the connectivity matrix is a generic aspe=
ct, we still can use existing TOP-level Node Attribute TLV. Please make sur=
e that the connectivity matrix is non-WSON property. I think it was the int=
ention of the CCAMP co-chairs to delineate WSON specific from Generic stuff=
s.=20


If we can agree with this, I think we can create ONE new TOP level TLV, ?No=
de Attribute for Optical Resources? (tentative name) in which to advertise =
all Optical Resource related information.=20


Although I still have problem understanding the RFC 5786 restriction on why=
 the TE LSA wouldn?t allow more than one Node Attribute TLV, I want to reso=
lve this issue and move the stalled OSPF extensions.=20


So Pierre, Greg and Fatai, can we agree on this discussion. In summary:


=B7         Use existing Node Attribute TLV for the connectivity matrix enc=
oding

=B7         Create ONE NEW top level node TLV (name to TBD) to encode all t=
he optical resource related information.=20


If we can agree, I think we can move on. If that is the case, I will update=
 current WSON-specific WG draft (http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf/) to recommend use of a new top level=
 node TLV for the encoding of all optical resource related information.=20


And there is no change in Fatai?s draft (http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-zhang-ccamp-general-constraints-ospf-ext/)=20


I look forward to hearing from you.=20


Best Regards,

Young




---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

From: ccamp-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces at ietf.org] On Behal=
f Of Fatai Zhang
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:59 PM
To: PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE); Greg Bernstein; Acee Lindem
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensi=
ons to OSPF (long)


Hi Pierre and Greg,


I need to remind you both that [OSPF-Gen] ("draft-zhang-ccamp-general-const=
raints-ospf-ext-00.txt") is general (not specific to WSON).=20


"Connectivity Matrix" defined in [OSPF-Gen] is a kind of node attribute, an=
d it is static like "IPv4/v6 Local Address" defined in RFC5786, so we can r=
esue "Node Attribute" top TLV to advertise Connectivity Matrix information =
without breaking the existing rules/restrictions defined in RFC5786.


For WSON specific information(ie., OEO stuff), I think we should define a n=
ew top TLV in order to comply with the rules defined in RFC5786 (or we may =
 life-up this restriction defined in RFC5786 as Young suggested).





Thanks
=20
Fatai
=20
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972912
Fax: +86-755-28972935

----- Original Message -----=20

From: PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)=20

To: Greg Bernstein ; Acee Lindem=20

Cc: CCAMP=20

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 1:13 AM

Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensi=
ons to OSPF (long)


Hi Greg, Acee and Every CCAMPers,


My answer is definitively two, Acee mentions there is no issue implementing=
 one or two regarding OSPF, hence I really see no blocking point against tw=
o new Top level TLV.

On top of ensuring the split between static and dynamic information. It als=
o provides an intrinsic structure of information organization.

One type of LSA is structured around the connectivity constraints of the no=
des.

Another type of LSA is structured around the resources in the node. One ins=
tance per ressource block. Hence one LSA of this type updated only at each =
time.

This feature is achieved with no extra-cost on the overall information to b=
e conveyed, while the one to be updated is intrinsically placed in independ=
ant LSA.

To conclude I am all the more convinced that we need to benefit of the inhe=
rent organization of information spread over multiple type of LSAs. It prov=
ides an inherent solution to address static and dynamic information inside =
nodes, which is altogether efficient regarding the amount of information to=
 be updated, while providing a clear layout of information for OSPF-TE.


Pierre



---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

De : Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb at grotto-networking.com]=20
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 6 janvier 2011 19:17
=C0 : Acee Lindem
Cc : PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE); CCAMP
Objet : Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensio=
ns to OSPF (long)

Thanks Acee. =20
Okay CCAMPers (Fatai and Pierre in particular) do we need one or two?  What=
 would be the justification for two new Top level TLVs for node related inf=
ormation? =20
We've talked before about static versus dynamic information, but for link i=
nformation we seemed to have settled on using multiple LSA instances for th=
is purpose, i.e., keep the static stuff in LSA instances different from the=
 dynamic stuff (e.g. wavelength availability).  Hence I don't see the need =
for two top level TLVs. =20

Greg


On 1/6/2011 9:24 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:=20

Hi Greg, =20

I think it is better to get 1 or 2 new top-level TE TLVs than to overload t=
he TE Node Attribute TLV" with the optical capabilities information.=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Greg Bernstein wrote:





Hi Pierre, do you think we should still try to use the "node attribute top =
level TLV" from RFC5786? A complete node description may require multiple c=
onnectivity matrices and these could potentially become large. RFC5786 has =
the constraint:=20
    "The Node Attribute TLV MUST NOT appear in more than one TE LSA origina=
ted by a router.  Furthermore, such an LSA MUST NOT include more than one N=
ode Attribute TLV."=20

So we couldn't split them up for MTU purposes. It seems that one new top le=
vel TLV for a node without the RFC5786 constraints would suffice. Do you th=
ink we need two? How would we justify two new top level TLVs to the OSPF WG=
 when we have the ability to use multiple instances?

Other opinions?

Best Regards

Greg=20
On 12/20/2010 4:27 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:=20

Hi Greg,


To start with, I am pretty in-line with the part related to the link TLV, w=
hich was already agreed.


Regarding the node related information, I am happy to see that you consider=
 splitting its information over 2 top-level TLVs, which we have been pronin=
g in order to ease the scalability and the information organisation.

I do encourage you to adopt even more the concepts proned in draft-peloso-c=
camp-won-ospf-oeo, by defining this new top-level TLV in a way that allows =
to have multiple instance of it, one for each conistent entity of ressoruce=
s.


To detail my point of view, considering that I bet you would keep inside th=
e node attribute top-level TLV the connectivity matrix object, and transfer=
 the informations concerning the OEO ressources to the new top-level TLV th=
at you suggest to name Node Property. I have no hard convinctions on any na=
me, and this one can fit with me, it is not the important thing anyway.

I insist that, what seems more important to me is really to benefit fully f=
rom the advantages brought by introducing a new top-level TLV (which was ap=
parently one of the thinks you were reluctant to do), namely the capability=
 to have one instance of this type per pool. Here a pool, being a consisten=
t bunch of OEO resources, sharing the fact that updating the usage of one o=
f them will have consequences on the accessibility of the others. Which is =
to my mind the smallest information entity that will need a single update o=
n the modification of usage of one of its members, hence the most compliant=
 with scalability.


To summarize, once the cost of introducing a new top-level TLV is accepted,=
 let's use the advantages of the concepts introduced in our solution to the=
ir full extent, and then use a layout of information compliant with that. D=
oes this sems reasonnable for you, and for the WG ?


- pierre


P.S. Let's keep aside right now the discussions concerning the administrati=
ve group, and TE metric sub-TLVs.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

De : ccamp-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces at ietf.org] De la par=
t de Greg Bernstein
Envoy=E9 : mardi 14 d=E9cembre 2010 19:24
=C0 : CCAMP
Objet : [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions t=
o OSPF (long)

Hi all two weeks ago we updated draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode =
and draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode based on comments from the list and th=
e Beijing meeting. These changes were editorial in nature and consisted of =
removing some informational text.=20
To move things forward in general we need to reach agreement on the top lev=
el TLVs to be used to carry this information.  We have two main types of in=
formation: (a) link related, and (b) node related.  In addition, depending =
on the complexity of the system we may want to split the information for a =
particular node or link into multiple LSAs  to keep the size of the LSA bel=
ow a particular limit or to separate rapidly changing node or link informat=
ion from relatively static. In general multiple TE LSA instances provide a =
mechanism for this.

For Link information RFC3630 defines the "Traffic Engineering LSA". This ha=
s area scope.
"One new LSA is defined, the Traffic Engineering LSA.  This LSA describes r=
outers, point-to-point links, and connections to multi-access networks (sim=
ilar to a Router LSA)."

Multiple instances can exist from a single source:
"The Instance field is an arbitrary value used to maintain multiple Traffic=
 Engineering LSAs.  A maximum of 16777216 Traffic Engineering LSAs may be s=
ourced by a single system."

Two top level TLVs are defined: Router Address TLV (section 2.4.1) and Link=
 TLV (section 2.4.2). The router address is just as it says. The link TLV i=
s the generally useful one for us:
"The Link TLV describes a single link.  It is constructed of a set of sub-T=
LVs.  There are no ordering requirements for the sub-TLVs. Only one Link TL=
V shall be carried in each LSA, allowing for fine granularity changes in to=
pology."

There does not appear to be any constraints on breaking up information abou=
t a single link into multiple LSAs. For WSON use we may want to keep static=
 information (port wavelength constraints) separate from dynamic informatio=
n (wavelength availability).

For Node Level information (such as connectivity matrices, resource block i=
nformation, resource block usage state) it seemed like RFC 5786 which has e=
xtensions for advertising a routers local addresses in TE extensions would =
be useful. It defines the OSPF TE LSA Node TLV and they state:
"It is anticipated that the Node Attribute TLV will also prove more general=
ly useful."
However in section 4.2 (Operation) they state:
"The Node Attribute TLV MUST NOT appear in more than one TE LSA originated =
by a router.  Furthermore, such an LSA MUST NOT include more than one Node =
Attribute TLV."

The first of these restrictions on use seems to preclude us from separating=
 traffic matrices, resource block descriptions, and resource block utilizat=
ion status into separate LSA instances using this TLV. Unless this rule can=
 be changed it seems that we will need a new top level "node properties" TL=
V for use in both WSON specific and General constraint extensions to OSPF. =
 Pierre and Giovanni in draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-02.txt wanted to d=
efine a new top level TLV for the resource block information, however it se=
ems that we probably should ask for a general "node properties" (or whateve=
r better name we can think of) top level TLV that could be applied to the g=
eneral constraint node information (connectivity matrices) as well as the v=
arious resource related quantities. =20

Pierre and Giovanni does this sound like a reasonable way forward? Or do yo=
u have a different suggestion.  Comments and suggestions from all are welco=
me.

Best Regards

Greg B.




--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=20





--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=20
<ATT00001..txt>







--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=20

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp






--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237


=20

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

References:=20
[CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OSPF (=
long)=20
From: Greg Bernstein
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Greg Bernstein
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Acee Lindem
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Greg Bernstein
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Fatai Zhang
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Leeyoung
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Acee Lindem
Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constraint Extensions to OS=
PF (long)=20
From: Greg Bernstein
Prev by Date: Re: [CCAMP] MIB Dr. review of draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-=
07=20
Next by Date: [CCAMP] AD review of draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-cp-framework=20
Previous by thread: Re: [CCAMP] Top Level TLVs for WSON and General Constra=
int Extensions to OSPF (long)=20
Next by thread: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-f=
wk=20
Index(es):=20
Date=20
Thread =20

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of P=
ELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:44 AM
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Mo=
ving the WSON discussion forward)

Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,

As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by dr=
aft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through, I=
've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals with=
 change 1: =20
Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which allows the=
 definition of several resource entites per node independantly floodable.
MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or tea=
r down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same connectivity=
 constraints).

Best Regards,

Pierre

[SNIP]

>>>       1. Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model,=20
>>> which allows the definition of several resource entites per node=20
>>> independantly floodable.
>>> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup=20
>>> or tear down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same=20
>>> connectivity constraints)
>> -->  There is already a standard mechanism in OSPF-TE for achieving=20
>> --> this
>> (multiple LSA instances) which is already in common use in MPLS and=20
>> GMPLS so this change is unneeded. The current WSON encoding model=20
>> includes very fine granularity in sub-TLVs hence this change would=20
>> not achieve the stated "MOTIVATION" any better than the current approach=
.
> The change proposed by draft-peloso does mandate (implicitly, this=20
> should be definitely changed) to have one LSA instance per top level TLV.
--> Hmm, other GMPLS specifications go the other way and restrict the
number of top level TLVs (usually one) per LSA.
This top level TLV is viewed as a container for a given type of information=
. If we have more than one "item" of information of a particular type you h=
ave the option of putting them in separate LSA instances. All the LSA insta=
nces together form the link state database and are used in path computation=
.  OSPF's reliable flooding mechanism will make sure the information gets t=
here.  Note, that unlike the IP routing case where slightly out of date inf=
ormation can cause loops/blackholes, in the GMPLS case at worse the signali=
ng request will fail somewhere along the path selected.
-->[Pierre]
My first comment here is that in our current case, WSON extensions are load=
ing the CP heavily with various information, then as long as possible, the =
intent here is to avoid cranck-back. If cranck-back is not dammageable, it =
is as efficient to rely on a distributed wavelength assignment for which cu=
rrent GMPLS, possibly improved with signalling extensions provided in the r=
elevant draft is sufficient. To sum-up my point, I personnaly hope that we =
are not doing all this work, to reach the conclusion that no better than wi=
thout all these extensions if the signaling fails it is not important.=20

> The solution of current WG-drafts is less explicit regarding how many=20
> TLVs should/may be flooded.
--> This is implementation and situation specific.
> Would you then elaborate with text in the drafts giving recommendations
>   on how to process different LSA instances referring to same sub-TLVs=20
> in the wson specific case.
--> We can add informative text to further explain the process. We'll
bring in some proposed text to Quebec City.
> The processing is not explicitly stated, according to=20
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-11, there is one ResourcePool per node and
> draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-04 state that this=20
> ResourcePool is contained in the "Optical Node Property TLV".
>
> So according to the draft a LSP setup would impact the following sub-TLVs=
 :
>    - "Resource Pool State Sub-TLV" : number of available device is change=
d
>    - "Block Shared Access Wavelength Availability Sub-TLV " is also=20
> updated
>
> Should this be new instances or reuse existing instances? How to merge th=
e information?
--> Think of the Optical Node Property TLV as the master container that
the OSPF working group has allocated to us. They have very limited "code sp=
ace" and hence want us to use all existing mechanisms rather than asking th=
em for more top level TLVs. Note all of GMPLS uses just one type of LSA.
We would not want to mix large amounts of static information (pool
accessibility) and dynamic information (pool state or shared access
state) in the same LSA instance.  So we could generally do something like t=
he following schematic:
             LSA instance #1{ Node_Prop_TLV[Pools accessibility]}
             LSA instance #2{ Node_Prop_TLV[Resource info]}
             LSA instance #3{ Node_Prop_TLV[Pools accessibility]}
             LSA instance #4{ Node_Prop_TLV[Shared wave state]} A similar p=
rocess can be used with link information where the top level container was =
defined way back in early MPLS days.
-->[Pierre]
When reading the preceding part, I end-up to the conclusion that when final=
ly explicited, you finally prone something very similar to draft-peloso-cca=
mp-wson-ospf-oeo, which I am happy with, as it means, we can then certainly=
 sort out the details. As I see, you are only differing in that you do not =
dare defining an explicit top-level TLV type for each of your type of LSA i=
nstance.
I understand that your motivation there comes from OSPF WG having allocated=
 us a very limited "code space". That is not something I am aware of, would=
 you provide the WG with reference(s) to this statement?
_______________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:26:12 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#17BBFD=
" vlink=3D"#FF79C2" style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWo=
rdSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This capability and associat=
ed bandwidth should be advertised explicitly as a separate ODUj service LSP=
 capability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #=
B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft s=
tyle=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belott=
i@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 13, 2011 3:21 AM<br>=
<b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin';=
 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN=
 single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blu=
e'>during the last 80th IETF in Prague, we had a lot of discussion ,particu=
larly with Rao and Khuzema , about the need to advertise BW also for interm=
ediate level of an OTN multiplexing hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif";color:blue'>At the end they convinced me and Daniele of t=
he need to have the possibility to provide information on how many FAs can =
be setup. I remember some scenarios in which these FAs are used not only sp=
ecifically in a single pont to point link (for as you named containing LSP =
scope) but also by potentially other LSPs .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif";color:blue'>We in fact ad a note in the actual uploaded ro=
uting draft to mention the need for intermediate BW adevertisement.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>So , unless scenarios are changed =
, what Fatai is trying to make understandable (and Pietro as well) is the f=
act that these intermediate layer exists in data plane , and must exist als=
o at CP level .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-G=
B style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>I=
mplicit option as you want does not permit any choice to use these FAs to b=
e used only iin the containing LSP context but for example not use by anoth=
er service to re-route traffic using them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:blue'>Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color=
:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Bes=
r Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMso=
Normal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'=
font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=
=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft sty=
le=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>Per conto di </b>John E Drake<br><b>Inviato:</b=
> marted=A8=AC 12 luglio 2011 20.44<br><b>A:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin=
'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:=
</b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage</span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:le=
ft'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'>We have had this discussion for several weeks now.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regardless of which of the two methods, implicit or expl=
icit, are used to establish them, these intermediate LSPs exist solely to &=
nbsp;support the ODUj service LSPs, so their creation and deletion should b=
e driven what the ODUj service LSPs require.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>I don=A1=AFt understand what it means to talk of rerouting one of the=
se intermediate LSPs because they exist only in the context of the ODUk tra=
nsport LSP and no one has been able to enlighten me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>As we discussed last week with Pietro, there is nothing gained=
 by re-signaling an intermediate LSP if one of its endpoints fails. <o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Finally, you should either improve the tone of=
 your emails or stop complaining about the tone of mine.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F4=
97D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft sty=
le=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent =
from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><di=
v><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 11=
, 2011 11:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonath=
an B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] R=
SVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You need control state for an=
 LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stag=
e H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span=
 style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#005BD3'>[Fatai] This answer means that &q=
uot;You&quot; don't really want to delete, reroute, restore, etc. intermedi=
ate stage H-LSPs independently from the top -of-the-stack LSP, but it does =
not mean that the operators don't want to do that, moreover, &quot;You&quot=
; should not force the operators to do as what &quot;you&quot; want (ie., w=
e could provide the options to the operators, but we should not force the o=
perators to do something), because it will overthrow the architecture of tr=
ansport networks and the operators' habit to manage the transport networks.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net] <br>Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=
=C4=EA</span>7<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</=
span>11<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span><s=
pan lang=3DZH-CN> </span>19:04<br>To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler,=
 Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>Cc: 'CCAMP'<br>Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN=
 single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Comments inline.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, =
2011 8:23 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake; S=
adler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; C=
c: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RS=
VP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
You need control state for an LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally want to delete,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reroute, re=
store, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>JD:&nbsp=
; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; You also said:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The ODU2 has c=
apacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; This could be done via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data =
plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>JD:&nbsp; We need to specify which OD=
U2 we are referencing in order to perform call admission control of the sub=
sequent ODU1s and to set-up the data plane correctly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original M=
essage-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [m=
ailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sen=
t: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi st=
age<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; What is the answer to Igor's=
 question?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; T=
hanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mail=
to:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; Of Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: 2011<=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>7<span lan=
g=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>6<span lang=3DZH-C=
N style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span> 23:23<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi st=
age<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You need control state for an L=
SP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage =
H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to=
p-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and =
the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; of thes=
e ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This could be done via su=
ggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne=
t]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 201=
1 11:09 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; Sad=
ler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc:=
 CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP=
 OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; If=
 we have, for example, a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, =
then with multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; an=
 intermediate stage switching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; of the signaling of the first ODU1.&nb=
sp; The ODU2 has capacity for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ad=
ditional ODU1s and the subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I hav=
e email from you agreeing with this which I can trot out if<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; necessary 8-&gt;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message---=
--<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: Igor Bryskin [mail=
to:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi sta=
ge<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; You said:<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs a=
re also<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; created in the cont=
rol plane and can be referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; signaling requests.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; What do =
you need the control plane state for?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:47 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Origina=
l Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: S=
adler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:26 AM<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Lou Be=
rger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN=
 single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; This seems ambiguous depending on the scope of the te=
rm &quot;LSP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; can refer to a dataplane cons=
truct or to a control plane construct.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Doesn=
't the term LSP typically refer to both aspects?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; I assume you mean &quot;The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; creates<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it in ad=
dition to the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; service<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; J=
D:&nbsp; A set of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane =
and can be referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; signaling requests.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is all don=
e without additional signaling sessions for the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lower-layer dataplane LSP.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; JD:&nbsp; This is accomplished without explicit signaling of the<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; intermediate stage switching LSP=
s?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; Can you validate the above statement?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org] On<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58 PM<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage v=
s multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP =
automatically creates the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; interm=
ediate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage=
 LSPs necessary to support it within the containing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical ODUk LSP'<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jul 3, 2011=
, at 1:40 PM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt; wrote:<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think all un=
derstand that the question relates to if<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; there<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is=
 a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; requirement to=
 support signaling multiple stages in a single LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you disagree, please rephrase as you th=
ink is sufficient to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; make<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; question clear.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On 7/3/20=
11 12:11 PM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; A=
s I think I have written at least two or three times over the<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; past<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; day or so, I don't think the requirement as orig=
inally written<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; or<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; revised is useful because both or the two methods u=
nder<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; discussion<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; will meet it.<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do I need to write to make this clea=
r?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49 AM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn=
.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; So John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; From my list:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt; 2) is REQ: (answer yes/no, feel free to elaborate)<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2A) A real requirement?=
 (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 2B) A complete non-goal? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (=
yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2=
D) Just don't care? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt; Are you a &quot;yes&quot; in 2C or 2D?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; PS I think we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, J=
ohn E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Since folks don't seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; about<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using 'intermediate switchi=
ng stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; LSP'?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To answer your question, I don't agree with your second<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; paragraph.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I thought I had made it clear that I wou=
ld prefer one method,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either sequential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; establish<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; intermediate swit=
ching stage LSPs, but not both.&nbsp; There is no<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reason to support both.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jul 2, 201=
1, at 9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Do y=
ou agree with my second paragraph in my email below?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If not, I would like to step fur=
ther to make something<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; explicit.=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let's con=
tinue this example below. If there is no enough<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; resource<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 =
FA LSP, or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; if<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Node C can not support =
ODU3 switching but support ODU3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; termination,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; how you can create ODU0 connection with multi-stage label=
s?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could y=
ou explain a little more?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original Messag=
e -----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; From: John E Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang&lt;mailto=
:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt; ; 'Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Bryskin'&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO V=
ITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTOR=
IO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:cc=
amp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN s=
ingle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; Please see the email I just sent to the CCAMP&nbsp; mailing l=
ist in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; response to Pietro<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>=
s email.&nbsp; I think it also addresses the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; points<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in your email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-=
line<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; analys<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is of it by you.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fata=
i Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Joh=
n E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN sin=
gle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; OK, Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span=
>s converge.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; I think you will agree that multi-stage labels can only be<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; some cases rather than universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this exa=
mple<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
below, we can create ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing (ie., ODU0=
-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; FA<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP and the=
n use one single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; these<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two ways, there is no need to use multi-stag=
e labels. I think<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; you<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can unders=
tand that these two ways are better and more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than your approach (two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +=
ODU3 FA-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSP).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we are merging=
 our drafts with [draft- Khuzema]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
give the flexibility for the people to choose what they prefer<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage muxing scenario, either (sin=
gle stage + H-LSP) or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage labels in some cases. We have figured out a perfec=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; unified<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solution. If people li=
ke multi-stage labels, they can choose<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; approach to use. If people do not like multi-stage labels,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; they<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just choose single stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mai=
lto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"M=
S Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic=
"'>=D4=C2</span>30<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=
=D5</span> 12:13<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTO=
RIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs mult=
i stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fa=
tai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I had=
 one clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; links,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in which case the <span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Courier New"'>=A1=AE</span>containing hierarchical LSP<span style=3D'=
font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span> is the link<span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient th=
an signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multipl<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e one hop s=
ub-layer LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; However, I seriously doubt than this will be a common case,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; because<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; having awareness of individ=
ual ODUjs in the core of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; net=
work<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; inherently less scalable=
 than having multi-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@jun=
iper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN sty=
le=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fo=
nt-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>30<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span> 11:37<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PI=
ETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang=
 [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: W=
ednesday, June 29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETR=
O VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CC=
AMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, you admit that ODU0-&gt=
;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; by<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODU0 request? because you a=
ssume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; already there.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this =
in an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; email<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent you and others some months back.&nbsp; The ba=
sic idea is that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; create the =
containing hierarchical&nbsp; LSP first and then use it<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish&nbsp; OUDj client&nbsp; LSPs and their requ=
ired sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; as<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needed, w=
ith the sub-layer LSPs being established using one of<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two proposals being discussed.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A few points for clarificat=
ion, even though I follow your<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; thought.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; How to create the ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; still<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; H-LSP concept there.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp=
; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; holds<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; it, establishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; then *either*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Crea=
tes the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D and then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; sends<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ODU0 Path message to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Send=
s the ODU0 Path message to D along with the multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 FA between B and D is =
already there, the FA should be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; regarded as one-hop, because there is no differe=
nce between<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario=
 should be treated as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scenario rather than multi-=
hop (Please pay attention to this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sentence that we are trying to make you unders=
tood many<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; times).<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio =
and you&nbsp; last week that I didn<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"=
'>=A1=AF</span>t think mul<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ti-st<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or u=
seful, and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; tha<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t I only consider=
ed them useful in the context of multi-hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; multis<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; tage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the co=
ntaining<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; hiera<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rchical LSP is be=
tween that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 between B and D is already there b=
ased on this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; example,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; why<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it needs to use two stage muxing =
(ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; just<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; use the simple one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; review<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; our slides again to get more inf=
ormation about cons of multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; muxing(slide 5).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; You could, if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In =
your<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; figure<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; had mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; O=
DU3 branch so that we had<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; a=
n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; int=
eresting scenario to discuss.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Got=
hic"'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=
=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5<=
/span><span lang=3DZH-CN> </span>23:39<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI,=
 PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORI=
O)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C=
c: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let<span style=3D'font-f=
amily:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s assume we have a containing hierarchica=
l ODU3 between n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; ode B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; and node D over which we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Usi=
ng<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a s=
ub-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; layer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; OD<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal=
 the ODU0.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Wit<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; h multi-stage lab=
els we would signal the ODU0 and include an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage label.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to =
work with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; some<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; non-<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero amount of effort,=
 but my preference is for multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; labels,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; strictly from an efficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>t enough<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diffe<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rence between t=
he two approaches to warrant standardizing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; both.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:zh=
angfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Ig=
or Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs mu=
lti stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Jo=
hn,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Agree with Igor =
that let emotions aside if there was some<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; improper<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wording. Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=
=A1=AF</span>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Could you clarify your point 1) a little more? Here is a<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; simple<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example shown below.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explain how to create ODU0 =
connection from Node A to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; Node<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; E by multi-stage labels approach? What information (e.g.,<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; traffic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; parameters, labels) should be carried=
 in the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; messag=
e?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Wh=
at action should be taken for Node C when receiving the Path<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Resv message?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; &lt;image001.png&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; cca=
mp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bounces@ietf.org&l=
t;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[m=
ailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZ=
H-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN sty=
le=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span> 6:12<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITT=
ORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a few clarifications=
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-sta=
ge labels apply equally well to multi-hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem=
 to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; understand.)<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to say tha=
t LSP hierarchy, as is, just<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wor=
ks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fo=
r the establishment of a hierarchical LSP that supports<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage switching.&nbsp; This involves a nested set=
 of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSPs,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the conta=
ining hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provide context for intermediate stage labe=
ls, between the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; same<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints.&nbsp; This is a new con=
struct and there are almost<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 certainly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; details to be worked out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; 3)&nbsp; I don't think we should standardize both approaches.&n=
bsp; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; would<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prefer that the wor=
king group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from m=
y iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Mes=
sage-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO V=
ITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs=
 multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Hi Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
You may not like John's tone, but emotions aside, what he<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; keeps<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; saying<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; repeatedly in this discussion does make per=
fect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The point of CP signaling is to convey information<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; pertinent<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network element provisioning in most efficient way. It d=
oes<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; seem<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stupid<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to signal numerous=
 one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single end-to-end round of s=
ignaling to do the job), create<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; numerous extra CP states, take care of all restart<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; implications,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ=
 written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Besides, you can think of multi-stage label as<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; identification<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of a<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; new type of network re=
sources controlled by GMPLS. Even the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; god-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; fathers would agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; c=
ontrol the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; resources described in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that y=
ou cannot orchestrate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prov=
isioning through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; do<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; so.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Che=
ers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I=
gor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Ori=
ginal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp=
-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tue=
sday, June 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single =
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Hello John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; 1) You have forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; private=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mails=
 without asking the permission to the involved people.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; This<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impolite and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) You are creating spam on =
the mailing list forwarding four<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; threads<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and =
very complicated to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; follow for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; people not involved in the discussion since the beg=
inning.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Moreover,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; this happened after a discussion from scratch was already<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; started=
 in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; th=
e mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; 3) You moved from a technical discussion to arrogant and<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deliberate<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personal o=
ffenses not supported by any sound technical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; motivation as<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported in your mails =
and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; &quot;This shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labels, and GMPL=
S in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; even<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrong.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot; It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slide=
s and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; found<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them, shall we s=
ay, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; We hope that from now on the discussion can be continued from<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; purely<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio and Dani=
ele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial=
 Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: &lt;=
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt=
;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it =
seems like<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty g=
irl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of John E Dr=
ake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Se=
nt: marted<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 28 giugno=
 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; To: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; Subject: [CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:=
 John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO V=
ITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadle=
r;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan=
; NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@=
zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzem=
a Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:=
 Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:zhangfata=
i@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITT=
ORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs -=
 Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;=
mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L=
yndon Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao=
; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject:=
 Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I guess that you did not review =
our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will let this pass.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You just see the only advantage for the cor=
ner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not =
see the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described in t=
he slides and the issues that Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; mentioned<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (eg.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OAM/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry that I didn't provi=
de enough context.&nbsp; I don't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; think the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/=
o multi-stage labels<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; is<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interest=
ing or common and it was not the case to which I was<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; addressing<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; my comments.&nbsp;=
 Rather, I was describing two ways of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; establishing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hop multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can=
 tell the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; Jonathan raised in this context are red herrings rather than<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; blue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regar=
dless of which of the two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; approa=
ches<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described is used, the iss=
ues, if any, would be exactly the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; same.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; In addition, we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; must be<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; use=
d in many cases, even though we have multi-stage label<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E.g., an =
ODU0 connection request from A to E through B, C<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; D,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; B,=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C=
 and&nbsp; D (or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching,<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; HO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; (ODU1 or ODU2 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; and D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; through LSP hierarchy. This example is very simple and there<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lots<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of transforms for this e=
xample to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Please see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with =
you and was<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; simply<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pointing =
out that multi-stage labels can be used to improve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wrt<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; latency<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and control plane overhead, the establishment of =
ODUj LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; within<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage hier=
archical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; F=
atai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &quot;John E Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: &quot;GRANDI=
, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.gran=
di@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; lucent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio=
.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &=
lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@erics=
son.com&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infi=
nera.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei=
.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; huawei.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Khuzema<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan=
&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;mail=
to:kpithewan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; @infinera=
.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.=
belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lucent.com&lt;=
mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ailto:akunjidhap=
atham@infinera.com&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; ; &quot;Diego Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt=
;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&lt;mailto:di<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; ego.caviglia@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Steve Ball=
s&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&lt;=
mailto:S<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; teve.Balls@me=
taswitch.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.co=
m&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua=
@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; m.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;NSN - Cyril =
Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &lt;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailt=
o:cyril.mar<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; garia@nsn.=
com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; &quot;Li Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei=
.danli@huawei.com&lt;mailto:huawei.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; danli@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt=
;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswi=
tch.com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Hardwic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; k@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler&=
quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com=
&lt;mailto:jo<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; nathan.s=
adler@tellabs.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailt=
o:valli@juniper.net<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: R=
E: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If we are talking about the establish=
ment of LSPs using<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; single-<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; muxing, I think the only thing necessary is a new label<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; format,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; believe is a bit map of trib=
utary slots; i.e., LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; esta=
blishment<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; using<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; single-stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have never had a situation such as mult=
i-stage muxing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; before<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so=
 we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; are breaking new ground and we have two choices, either use<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy to establish multiple single=
-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer informa=
tion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; within<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; message for the ODUj such that the sub-la=
yers are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; established<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicitly an=
d concurrently with the establishment of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is=
 more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
efficient<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; wrt latency and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; do is to say that both=
 are supported.&nbsp; If we can agree that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then=
 when<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; node<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertises multi=
-stage support in routing, we know how<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; signaling is<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be accomplished.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent f=
rom my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIE=
TRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailt=
o:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Mo=
nday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Ra=
jan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); =
Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonatha=
n Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram; =
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single st=
age vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems as though you consider on the sam=
e level something<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (H-<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; concept) already used in CP managing multi-layer with<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; something<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; does not exist at all.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Oper=
ators are used to managed their CP network together<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; NMS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Most of the NMS work per-layer. The=
 utilization of a multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
implementation<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; consequences.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We should also keep in mind that multi-s=
tage label approach<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; can<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; u=
sed in some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; muxing)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will bring some managemen=
t issues. Please see the slides<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent a few days ago.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For both these reasons the &qu=
ot;optional&quot; condition of multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Serg=
io, Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolut=
ion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: &lt;=
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; &lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a hot s=
tove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
like<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pret=
ty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Or=
iginal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mai=
lto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2=
.40<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarel=
li; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SER=
GIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jo=
nathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasunda=
ram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; W=
e can certainly say that a node that advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support in=
 routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I said before, using mut=
iple RSVP exchanges between the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; same<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages=
 seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ill-<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; considered an=
d forcing everyone to support two ways of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Ide=
a.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;=
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (PIETRO<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@=
alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hell=
o John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; I understand that you think that the new switching type in<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; routing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; should also convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-s=
tage label is supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Implemen=
tations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; possible<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (and<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; alre=
ady standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new switching type is =
not enough to clearly tell what<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Sent: venerd<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</sp=
an> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Da=
niele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTT=
I, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve B=
alls'; 'Ciena<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ong'; &lt;mai=
lto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt; fu.xihua@z=
te.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.=
com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li =
Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN s=
ingle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Actually we are already covered.=
&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching type, which is also c=
arried in signaling.&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; means<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; get to define the signaling used for this switching type,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I am<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposing that we =
use multistage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRAN=
DI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alca=
tel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lu=
cent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccare=
lli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; Zhang;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Caviglia; 'Steve Bal=
ls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xih=
ua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.x=
ihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihu=
a@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margari=
a'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RS=
VP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I&nbsp; agree with Danie=
le' statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in my mind this means that single stage label support is=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; implicit<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labels should not be used unless a mach=
ine<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; declares the support.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: &lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat=
el-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alc=
atel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.g=
randi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.=
com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a=
 hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; like<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a =
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _____=
___________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:danie=
le.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@er=
icsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=
=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 15.48<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;=
 Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIET=
RO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORI=
O); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RSV=
P OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Starting a new thread as we're now mo=
ving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Assuming we still have not decided whether we're g=
oing to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single stage only, multi stage only or both of the=
m i<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; believe<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; per OSPF =
we need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An implementation RFC4328 b=
ased (that we've explicitly been<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; told<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; only<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mul=
ti-stage + single stage we should be able to cover<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; backward<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sen=
t: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno =
2011 8.53<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'GRANDI,=
 PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;m=
ailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; '=
Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vall=
inayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (=
support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage Vs Sin=
gle Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I didn't want to allow interoperability opti=
ons.&nbsp; I much<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; preferred<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; say that we do signaling in one way only,=
 using multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; labels.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; These are also needed for signaling with=
in&nbsp; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSPs.=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Rajan Rao [mailto:r=
rao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Jo=
hn E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon=
 Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonat=
han Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jonath=
an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the =
OTN OSPF draft (support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; for=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
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-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; While we are making updates, =
let us discuss support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; required<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertisement for si=
ngle/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Given that there is interest in both mu=
lti-stage label and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider in=
clusion of a FLAG to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; indica=
te<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wha=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This will address some of the<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; have<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussed in the past relating to path computation<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; involving<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; NEs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different capabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tha=
nks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:CCA=
MP@ietf.org&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ____________________________=
___________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
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mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p=
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&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:=
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><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:CCAMP@i=
etf.org&gt;CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/ccamp&gt;https://www.ietf.org/mailm<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; an/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
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_____<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
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t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ____________________________=
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:37:40 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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Subject: [CCAMP] R:  RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>could you clarify =
your
statement &nbsp;more explicitly ? </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f=
497d"><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></font><=
font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>=A1=B0This
capability and associated bandwidth should be advertised explicitly as a
separate ODUj service LSP capability=A1=B1 </span></font><font size=3D2 col=
or=3Dblue
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><=
span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>this =
is not
what is addressed now in the draft neither it&nbsp; seems to me answering m=
y
question .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<div>

<p><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
 John E
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> mercoled=A8=AC 13 l=
uglio 2011
19.26<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'; Fatai Zhang; 'I=
gor
Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N
single stage vs multi stage</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This capability and associated ban=
dwidth
should be advertised explicitly as a separate ODUj service LSP capability.<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> BELOTTI, SERGIO
(SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 13, 20=
11
3:21 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'; Fatai Zhang; 'I=
gor
Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>during the last 80=
th
IETF in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Prague</st1:place></st=
1:City>,
we had a lot of discussion ,particularly with Rao and Khuzema , about the n=
eed
to advertise BW also for intermediate level of an OTN multiplexing hierarch=
y.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>At the end they
convinced me and Daniele of the need to have the possibility to provide
information on how many FAs can be setup. I remember some scenarios in whic=
h
these FAs are used not only specifically in a single pont to point link (fo=
r as
you named containing LSP scope) but also by potentially other LSPs .<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>We in fact ad a no=
te in
the actual uploaded routing draft to mention the need for intermediate BW
adevertisement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>So , unless scenar=
ios
are changed , what Fatai is trying to make understandable (and Pietro as we=
ll)
is the fact that these intermediate layer exists in data plane , and must e=
xist
also at CP level .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Implicit option as=
 you
want does not permit any choice to use these FAs to be used only iin the
containing LSP context but for example not use by another service to re-rou=
te
traffic using them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks <o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Besr Regards<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times=
 New Roman"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> marted=A8=AC 12 lug=
lio 2011
20.44<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryski=
n';
'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N
single stage vs multi stage</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New R=
oman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We have had this discussion for se=
veral
weeks now.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regardless of which of the two met=
hods,
implicit or explicit, are used to establish them, these intermediate LSPs e=
xist
solely to &nbsp;support the ODUj service LSPs, so their creation and deleti=
on
should be driven what the ODUj service LSPs require.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I don=A1=AFt understand what it me=
ans to talk
of rerouting one of these intermediate LSPs because they exist only in the
context of the ODUk transport LSP and no one has been able to enlighten me.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As we discussed last week with Pie=
tro,
there is nothing gained by re-signaling an intermediate LSP if one of its
endpoints fails. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Finally, you should either improve=
 the
tone of your emails or stop complaining about the tone of mine.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Fatai Zhang
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 11, 2011 =
11:03
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; 'Igor Brys=
kin';
'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N
single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you wa=
nt to
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally
want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H=
-LSPs
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D3 color=3D"#005bd3" face=3DCalibri><sp=
an
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#005BD3'>[Fatai] This answer m=
eans
that &quot;You&quot; don't really want to delete, reroute, restore, etc.
intermediate stage H-LSPs independently from the top -of-the-stack LSP, but=
 it
does not mean that the operators don't want to do that, moreover,
&quot;You&quot; should not force the operators to do as what &quot;you&quot=
;
want (ie., we could provide the options to the operators, but we should not
force the operators to do something), because it will overthrow the archite=
cture
of transport networks and the operators' habit to manage the transport
networks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font><s=
pan
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
Sent: 2011</span></font><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN
style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>7<=
/span><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=
=C2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>11</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'=
font-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span lang=3DZH-CN> </span><span lang=3DEN=
-US>19:04<br>
To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br>
Cc: 'CCAMP'<br>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaopt=
ical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:23 AM<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you wa=
nt to
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally
want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H=
-LSPs
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s =
and
the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; This could be done via suggested label sign=
aled
for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not c=
ontrol
plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>JD:&nbsp; We need to specify which ODU2 we are
referencing in order to perform call admission control of the subsequent OD=
U1s
and to set-up the data plane correctly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei=
.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John E Drake; 'Sadler,
Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; What is the answer to Igor's question?<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Of Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: 2011</span></font><font face=3D"MS Go=
thic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>7</span><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=
=C2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 23:23<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you wa=
nt to
manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't re=
ally
want to delete,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H=
-LSPs
independently from the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s =
and
the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; This could be done via suggested label sign=
aled
for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not c=
ontrol
plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.n=
et]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:09 AM<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage =
vs
multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; If we have, for example, a containing
hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, the=
n with
multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; an intermediate stage switching ODU2 LSP is
implicitly created as part<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; of the signaling of the first ODU1.&nbsp; T=
he
ODU2 has capacity for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; additional ODU1s and the subsequent signali=
ng of
these ODU1s can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; I have email from you agreeing with this wh=
ich I
can trot out if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; necessary 8-&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; From: Igor Bryskin
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:02 AM=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.;=
 Lou
Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single s=
tage
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; You said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or more interme=
diate
stage switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can b=
e
referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; signaling requests.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; What do you need the control plane sta=
te
for?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:47 A=
M<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; To: Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single s=
tage
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Sadler, Jonathan B.
[mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:=
26 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Lou Berger<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN sin=
gle
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; This seems ambiguous depending on=
 the
scope of the term &quot;LSP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; This<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; can refer to a dataplane construc=
t or
to a control plane construct.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Doesn't the term LSP typical=
ly
refer to both aspects?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; I assume you mean &quot;The signa=
ling
of an ODUj LSP automatically<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; creates<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the lower-layer dataplane LSP to
support it in addition to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; service<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or more interme=
diate
stage switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can b=
e
referenced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; signaling requests.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is all done without addition=
al
signaling sessions for the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; lower-layer dataplane LSP.&quot;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; This is accomplished without
explicit signaling of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; intermediate stage switching LSPs?<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can you validate the above statem=
ent?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58=
 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN sin=
gle
stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP
automatically creates the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; intermediate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage LSPs necessary to
support it within the containing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical ODUk LSP'<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, &quot=
;Lou
Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think all understand that =
the
question relates to if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; there<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is a<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; requirement to support signa=
ling
multiple stages in a single LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do I need to write =
to
make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you disagree, please reph=
rase
as you think is sufficient to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; make<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; question clear.<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E=
 Drake
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As I think I have writte=
n at
least two or three times over the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; past<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; day or so, I don't think=
 the
requirement as originally written<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; revised is useful becaus=
e both
or the two methods under<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; will meet it.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What do I need to write =
to
make this clear?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at 11:49=
 AM,
&quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; So John,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From my list:<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) is REQ: (answer y=
es/no,
feel free to elaborate)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2A) A real requireme=
nt?
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2B) A complete non-g=
oal?
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2C) Useful, if can f=
ind a
reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2D) Just don't care?
(yes/no)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Are you a &quot;yes&=
quot; in
2C or 2D?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; PS I think we have 1=
 yes
on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM,=
 John
E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Since folks don'=
t seem
to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; about<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using 'intermedi=
ate
switching stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP'?<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To answer your
question, I don't agree with your second<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; paragraph.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I thought I had =
made
it clear that I would prefer one method,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either sequentia=
l Path
messages or multi-stage labels, to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; establish<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; intermediate swi=
tching
stage LSPs, but not both.&nbsp; There is no<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reason to suppor=
t
both.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jul 2, 2011, =
at
9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Do you agree wit=
h my
second paragraph in my email below?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If not, I would =
like
to step further to make something<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; explicit.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let's continue t=
his
example below. If there is no enough<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; resource<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on link BC or CD=
 (or
both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Node C can not s=
upport
ODU3 switching but support ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; termination,<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; how you can crea=
te
ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explai=
n a
little more?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original M=
essage
-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E
Drake&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai
Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt; ; 'Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
Bryskin'&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; 'GRANDI, P=
IETRO
VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, Ju=
ly 01,
2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Please see the e=
mail I
just sent to the CCAMP&nbsp; mailing list in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; response to Piet=
ro</span></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s email.&nbsp; I think it also addresses the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; points<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in your email, b=
elow,
and I would appreciate a line-by-line<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; analys<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is of it by you.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhan=
g
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
June
30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OK, Let</span></=
font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s converge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think you will=
 agree
that multi-stage labels can only be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; some cases rathe=
r than
universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this example<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; below, we can cr=
eate
ODU3 FA LSP and then use one single stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing (ie.,
ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another alternative is to create<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; FA<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP and then use=
 one
single stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; these<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two ways, there =
is no
need to use multi-stage labels. I think<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can understand t=
hat
these two ways are better and more<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; efficient<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than your approa=
ch
(two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; LSP).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we =
are
merging our drafts with [draft- Khuzema]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; give the flexibi=
lity
for the people to choose what they prefer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage muxi=
ng
scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage labels in =
some
cases. We have figured out a perfect<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; unified<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solution. If peo=
ple
like multi-stage labels, they can choose<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach to use.=
 If
people do not like multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; they<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just choose sing=
le
stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Dra=
ke
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>30</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>
12:13<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO (PIETRO
VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I had one
clarification.&nbsp; Multi-stage labels can be used on<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; links,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in which case th=
e </span></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AE</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>containing hierarchical LSP</span><font face=3D"Courier New"><=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US>
is the link</span><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-family:
"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>s<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OUDk/OTUk, and t=
hey
would be more efficient than signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; multipl<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e one hop sub-la=
yer
LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; However, I serio=
usly
doubt than this will be a common case,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; because<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; having awareness=
 of
individual ODUjs in the core of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; network<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; inherently less
scalable than having multi-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchical LSP=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Dra=
ke
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>30</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>
11:37<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang;=
 'Igor
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhan=
g
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday,=
 June
29, 2011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, you admit th=
at
ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot be created directly<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; by<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labe=
l
approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODU0 request? be=
cause
you assume that a hierarchical ODU3 (FA)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; already there.<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp;
Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in an<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; email<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent you and oth=
ers
some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; create the conta=
ining
hierarchical&nbsp; LSP first and then use it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establish&nbsp; =
OUDj
client&nbsp; LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needed, with the
sub-layer LSPs being established using one of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two proposals be=
ing
discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A few points for
clarification, even though I follow your<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How to create th=
e ODU3
FA before ODU0 request? I think it is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; still<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; H-LSP concept th=
ere.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp;
Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path message arrives at B, B<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; holds<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it, establishes =
the
ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; then *either*<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Creates the ODU2 sub-layer by signaling D =
and
then<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; sends<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ODU0 Path me=
ssage
to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sends the ODU0 Path message to D along wit=
h
the multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label for the OD=
U2 LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 FA betwe=
en B
and D is already there, the FA should be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; regarded as one-=
hop,
because there is no difference between<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FA and one-hop l=
ink.
So, this scenario should be treated as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scenario rather =
than
multi-hop (Please pay attention to this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sentence that we=
 are
trying to make you understood many<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; times).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I told
Sergio and you&nbsp; last week that I didn</span></font><font face=3D"Couri=
er New"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t
think mul<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ti-st<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; age labels for l=
inks
(one hop) were interesting or useful, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; tha<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t I only conside=
red
them useful in the context of multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; multis<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; tage hierarchica=
l
LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; hiera<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rchical LSP is b=
etween
that LSP endpoints so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 between =
B and
D is already there based on this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; example,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; why<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it needs to use =
two
stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3), why not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; just<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; use the simple o=
ne
stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; review<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; our slides again=
 to
get more information about cons of multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing(slide 5).=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; You co=
uld,
if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; figure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; had mentally edi=
ted
out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that we had<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting scen=
ario
to discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Dra=
ke
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>29</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DZH-CN> </span><span
lang=3DEN-US>23:39<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang;=
 'Igor
Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let</span></font=
><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between n<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ode B<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and node D over =
which
we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; s<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ub-layer hierarc=
hical
LSP approach, we would signal a sub-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; layer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; OD<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; U2 hierarchical =
LSP
between B and D and then signal the ODU0.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Wit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; h multi-stage la=
bels
we would signal the ODU0 and include an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labe=
l.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I have repeat=
edly
said, either can be made to work with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; some<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; non-<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero amount of e=
ffort,
but my preference is for multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; labels,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; strictly from an
efficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn</span></font><font face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t
enough<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diffe<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rence between th=
e two
approaches to warrant standardizing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; both.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhan=
g
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday,=
 June
29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake=
;
'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Agree with Igor =
that
let emotions aside if there was some<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; improper<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wording. Let</sp=
an></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>s discuss tech.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you clarif=
y your
point 1) a little more? Here is a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; simple<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example shown be=
low.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explai=
n how
to create ODU0 connection from Node A to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Node<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E by multi-stage
labels approach? What information (e.g.,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; traffic<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; parameters, labe=
ls)
should be carried in the Path or Resv<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; message?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What action shou=
ld be
taken for Node C when receiving the Path<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Resv message?<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;image001.png=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &lt;mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org=
]&gt;
On Behalf Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011</span=
></font><font
face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=
=EA</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>6</span><font face=3D"MS Gothic"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:
"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US>29</span><font face=3D"=
MS Gothic"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span la=
ng=3DEN-US>
6:12<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Igor Bryskin=
;
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CC=
AMP]
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a few
clarifications.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-s=
tage
labels apply equally well to multi-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs. (The is th=
e
point some people do not seem to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; understand.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)&nbsp; It is
incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, just<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; works<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for the establis=
hment
of a hierarchical LSP that supports<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage switching.=
&nbsp;
This involves a nested set of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSPs,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the containing
hierarchical LSP and the set of sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provide context =
for
intermediate stage labels, between the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; same<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; two<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints.&nbsp;=
 This
is a new construct and there are almost<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; certainly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; details to be wo=
rked
out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3)&nbsp; I don't=
 think
we should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; would<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prefer that the
working group pick one to standardize.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Igor B=
ryskin
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesda=
y,
June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, =
PIETRO
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE:=
 RSVP
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Pietro,<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You may not =
like
John's tone, but emotions aside, what he<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; keeps<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; saying<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; repeatedly i=
n this
discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The point=
 of CP
signaling is to convey information<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; pertinent<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network elem=
ent
provisioning in most efficient way. It does<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; seem<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stupid<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to signal nu=
merous
one hop hierarchical LSPs (when it is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sufficient a=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single end-t=
o-end
round of signaling to do the job), create<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; numerous ext=
ra CP
states, take care of all restart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; implications,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; etc.<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just to be
consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Besides, =
you
can think of multi-stage label as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; identification<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of a<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; new type of
network resources controlled by GMPLS. Even the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; god-<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fathers woul=
d
agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; control the<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; resources
described in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Finally, =
no one
ever said that you cannot orchestrate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provisioning
through the hierarchy of LSPs if you choose to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; do<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cheers,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of GRANDI, P=
IETRO
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesda=
y,
June 28, 2011 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E D=
rake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re:
[CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello John,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) You have
forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; private<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mails withou=
t
asking the permission to the involved people.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; This<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impolite and=
 unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) You are
creating spam on the mailing list forwarding four<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; threads<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are eac=
h
hundreds of lines long and very complicated to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; follow for<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; people not
involved in the discussion since the beginning.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Moreover,<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this happene=
d
after a discussion from scratch was already<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; started in<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the mailing =
list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) You moved=
 from
a technical discussion to arrogant and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deliberate<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personal off=
enses
not supported by any sound technical<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; motivation a=
s<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported in =
your
mails and snipped below:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;This s=
hows a
complete lack of understanding of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage
labels, and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; It is so bad it is<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrong.&quot;=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot; It mi=
ght be
more precise to say I reviewed your slides and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; found<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them, shall =
we
say, lacking.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We hope that=
 from
now on the discussion can be continued from<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; purely<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technical po=
int of
view.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Serg=
io and
Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vitto=
rio
Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial =
Optics
Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Luce=
nt
Vimercate (<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Italy</st=
1:place></st1:country-region>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039=
 686
4930<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail:
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your han=
d on a
hot stove for a minute, and it seems like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a p=
retty
girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein=
)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of John E Dr=
ake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted=
</span></font><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A8=AC</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [CC=
AMP]
FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Origina=
l
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E=
 Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursd=
ay,
June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: 'Fatai Z=
hang';
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinay=
akam
Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li=
 Dan;
NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena =
-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; =
Steve
Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERG=
IO);
Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE:=
 RSVP
OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inl=
ine.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Ori=
ginal
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fa=
tai
Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent:
Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRAN=
DI,
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick=
; Li
Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ci=
ena -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon O=
ng;
Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO
(SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject:=
 Re:
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I guess =
that
you did not review our slides carefully.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I =
will
let this pass.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You just=
 see
the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establis=
h<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-la=
yers
LSP concurrently), but you did not see the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; describe=
d in
the slides and the issues that Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; mentioned<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (eg.,<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OAM/prot=
ection
issues).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'=
m
sorry that I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I don't<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; think the<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one-hop
hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting =
or
common and it was not the case to which I was<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; addressing<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; my comments.=
&nbsp;
Rather, I was describing two ways of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; establishing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hop multi-st=
age
hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan rai=
sed in
this context are red herrings rather than<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; blue<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whales.&nbsp=
;
Furthermore, regardless of which of the two<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; approaches<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described is=
 used,
the issues, if any, would be exactly the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; same.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addit=
ion,
we have repeated many times that LSP hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; must be<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in =
many
cases, even though we have multi-stage label<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach=
.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E.g., an=
 ODU0
connection request from A to E through B, C<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; D,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; but<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; B,<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C and&nb=
sp; D
(or one of them ) can not support ODU0 switching,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; HO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUj<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ODU1 or=
 ODU2
or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and D<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through =
LSP
hierarchy. This example is very simple and there<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lots<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of trans=
forms
for this example to use LSP hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Pl=
ease
see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; simply<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pointing out=
 that
multi-stage labels can be used to improve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; wrt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; latency<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and control =
plane
overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage
hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Or=
iginal
Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From:
&quot;John E Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.ne<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
&quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
&quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
ailto:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&lt;mailto:daniele.ceccarell=
i@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rao&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infine=
ra.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zha=
ngfatai@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan=
&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;mailto:k=
pithewan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; @infinera.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mailt=
o:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Diego Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&lt;mailto:=
di<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; ego.caviglia@ericsson.com<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&lt;=
mailto:S<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; teve.Balls@metaswitch.com<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Ciena.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihu=
a@zte.co<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; m.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;NSN - Cyril Margaria&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto:c=
yril.mar<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; garia@nsn.com<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Li
Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@huawei.com&lt;mailto=
:huawei.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; danli@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
ailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&lt;mailto:Jonathan.Hardw=
ic<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; k@metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
ailto:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&lt;mailto:=
jo<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; nathan.sadler@tellabs.com<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
;
&quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@junip=
er.net<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent:
Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject:=
 RE:
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If we ar=
e
talking about the establishment of LSPs using<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; single-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing, =
I
think the only thing necessary is a new label<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; format,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; believe =
is a
bit map of tributary slots; i.e., LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; establishment<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-s=
tage
muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have =
never
had a situation such as multi-stage muxing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so we<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are brea=
king
new ground and we have two choices, either use<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarch=
y to
establish multiple single-stage sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and
sequentially, or include the sub-layer information<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Path<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; message =
for
the ODUj such that the sub-layers are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; established<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicit=
ly and
concurrently with the establishment of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; ODUj.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Either w=
ill
work, but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; efficient<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrt late=
ncy
and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; do is to=
 say
that both are supported.&nbsp; If we can agree that<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only use=
 one
method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; node<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertis=
es
multi-stage support in routing, we know how<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; signalin=
g is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be
accomplished.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent fro=
m my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: =
John E
Drake<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELO=
TTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s;
Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;=
mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;
NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li D=
an;
Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It s=
eems
as though you consider on the same level something<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; (H-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; conc=
ept)
already used in CP managing multi-layer with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; something<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; does=
 not
exist at all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Oper=
ators
are used to managed their CP network together<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; NMS.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Most=
 of
the NMS work per-layer. The utilization of a multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; woul=
d
force NMS to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impl=
ementation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
consequences.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We s=
hould
also keep in mind that multi-stage label approach<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used=
 in
some cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; muxing)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will=
 bring
some management issues. Please see the slides<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fata=
i<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sent=
 a few
days ago.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For =
both
these reasons the &quot;optional&quot; condition of multi-<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; conc=
ept is
absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro,
Sergio, Fatai &amp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=
=3D"on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel:=
 +39
039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail=
:
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;=
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put =
your
hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit =
with a
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A.
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
: John
E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELO=
TTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s;
Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li D=
an;
Jonathan Hardwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We c=
an
certainly say that a node that advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supp=
ort in
routing MUST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I=
 said
before, using mutiple RSVP exchanges between the<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; same<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endp=
oints
to establish intermediate switching stages seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; ill-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; cons=
idered
and forcing everyone to support two ways of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mult=
istage
LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
 from
my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On J=
un 17,
2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;=
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hell=
o
John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I
understand that you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rout=
ing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shou=
ld
also convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
multi-stage label is supported.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do=
 not
agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Implementations using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; poss=
ible<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (and<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; alre=
ady
standard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the =
new
switching type is not enough to clearly tell what<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supporte=
d.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ____=
____________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
: John
E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
venerd</span></font><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:
"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 17 giugno 2011 2.09<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raja=
n Rao;
Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (SER=
GIO);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Asho=
k
Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ong'=
;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Actu=
ally
we are already covered.&nbsp;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; swit=
ching
type, which is also carried in signaling.&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; means<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; get =
to
define the signaling used for this switching type,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I am=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prop=
osing
that we use multistage.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Than=
ks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
 from
my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
Daniele Ceccarelli; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Zhang;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Khuzema<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;
BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cavi=
glia;
'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi a=
ll,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I&nb=
sp;
agree with Daniele' statement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in m=
y mind
this means that single stage label support is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impl=
icit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
multi-stage labels should not be used unless a machine<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; expl=
icitly<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; decl=
ares
the support.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Piet=
ro
Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terr=
estrial
Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=
=3D"on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel:=
 +39
039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail=
:
&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@al=
catel-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put =
your
hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit =
with a
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
relativity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A.
Einstein)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
gioved</span></font><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:
"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 15.48=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: =
John E
Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERG=
IO
(SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (PIETRO<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITT=
ORIO);
Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Star=
ting a
new thread as we're now moving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Assu=
ming
we still have not decided whether we're going to<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; supp=
ort<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sing=
le
stage only, multi stage only or both of them i<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; believe<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; per =
OSPF
we need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An
implementation RFC4328 based (that we've explicitly been<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; told<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; not<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; depr=
ecate)
is single stage based, so in case of multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; only<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
multi-stage + single stage we should be able to cover<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; backward<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dani=
ele<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
: John
E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
gioved</span></font><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-family:
"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US> 16 giugno 2011 8.53<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: =
Rajan
Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pith=
ewan;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BEL=
OTTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s';
'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stag=
e Vs
Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raja=
n,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I di=
dn't
want to allow interoperability options.&nbsp; I much<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pref=
erred<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; say =
that
we do signaling in one way only, using multistage<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; labe=
ls.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thes=
e are
also needed for signaling within&nbsp; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Than=
ks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
 from
my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From=
:
Rajan Rao [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent=
:
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; John E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BEL=
OTTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:
'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ball=
s';
'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyri=
l<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria';
'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subj=
ect:
RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (support<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
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></font></p>

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e Vs
Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Whil=
e we
are making updates, let us discuss support<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; required<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; link<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
advertisement for single/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Give=
n that
there is interest in both multi-stage label and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sing=
le-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with
H-LSPs, we should consider inclusion of a FLAG to<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; indicate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; what<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the =
link
is capable of.&nbsp; This will address some of the<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; have<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; disc=
ussed
in the past relating to path computation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; involving<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; NEs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diff=
erent
capabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Than=
ks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raja=
n<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailin=
g list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailin=
g list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing li=
st<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt;
&lt;https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lm<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; an/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ________________=
_______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing li=
st<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:50:19 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#17BBFD=
" vlink=3D"#FF79C2" style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWo=
rdSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I may have misunderstood you=
r email.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> If we have an interface that s=
upports ODU1 &lt;-&gt; ODU2 &lt;-&gt; ODU3, I thought you were saying that =
the ODU2 switching capability needed to be advertised so that ODU2 LSPs cou=
ld be established using this interface.&nbsp; What I was saying was that in=
 addition to advertising the OD1 &lt;-&gt; ODU2 &lt;-&gt; ODU3 switching ca=
pability, &nbsp;an ODU2 &lt;-&gt; ODU3 switching capability should also be =
advertised.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #=
B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft s=
tyle=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belott=
i@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:38 AM<br=
><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'=
; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DM=
soNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif=
";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
blue'>could you clarify your statement &nbsp;more explicitly ? </span><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=A1=B0This capability and associate=
d bandwidth should be advertised explicitly as a separate ODUj service LSP =
capability=A1=B1 </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif";color:blue'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>this is not what is=
 addressed now in the draft neither it&nbsp; seems to me answering my quest=
ion .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:blue'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'co=
lor:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=
=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:"SimSun","serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</spa=
n></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Inviato:</b> merco=
led=A8=AC 13 luglio 2011 19.26<br><b>A:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>=
Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou B=
erger'<br><b>Oggetto:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<=
/span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"SimSun","serif=
"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This capability and associated bandwidth should be adv=
ertised explicitly as a separate ODUj service LSP capability.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dlef=
t style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div st=
yle=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>=
<div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt=
 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><=
b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>=
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 13, 2011 3:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br=
><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'L=
ou Berger'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi sta=
ge<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blu=
e'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>during the last 80th =
IETF in Prague, we had a lot of discussion ,particularly with Rao and Khuze=
ma , about the need to advertise BW also for intermediate level of an OTN m=
ultiplexing hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
blue'>At the end they convinced me and Daniele of the need to have the poss=
ibility to provide information on how many FAs can be setup. I remember som=
e scenarios in which these FAs are used not only specifically in a single p=
ont to point link (for as you named containing LSP scope) but also by poten=
tially other LSPs .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blu=
e'>We in fact ad a note in the actual uploaded routing draft to mention the=
 need for intermediate BW adevertisement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",=
"sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f";color:blue'>So , unless scenarios are changed , what Fatai is trying to =
make understandable (and Pietro as well) is the fact that these intermediat=
e layer exists in data plane , and must exist also at CP level .<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Implicit option as you want=
 does not permit any choice to use these FAs to be used only iin the contai=
ning LSP context but for example not use by another service to re-route tra=
ffic using them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks <=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Besr Regards<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif=
";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blu=
e'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter s=
tyle=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Times New Roman","serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter=
></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><=
b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]=
 <b>Per conto di </b>John E Drake<br><b>Inviato:</b> marted=A8=AC 12 luglio=
 2011 20.44<br><b>A:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'=
; 'Lou Berger'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OT=
N single stage vs multi stage</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We have had thi=
s discussion for several weeks now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Rega=
rdless of which of the two methods, implicit or explicit, are used to estab=
lish them, these intermediate LSPs exist solely to &nbsp;support the ODUj s=
ervice LSPs, so their creation and deletion should be driven what the ODUj =
service LSPs require.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I don=A1=AFt under=
stand what it means to talk of rerouting one of these intermediate LSPs bec=
ause they exist only in the context of the ODUk transport LSP and no one ha=
s been able to enlighten me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As we discu=
ssed last week with Pietro, there is nothing gained by re-signaling an inte=
rmediate LSP if one of its endpoints fails. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>Finally, you should either improve the tone of your emails or stop co=
mplaining about the tone of mine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-le=
ft:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:no=
ne;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMso=
Normal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhang=
fatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 11, 2011 11:03 PM<br><b>To:=
</b> John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<br><=
b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dle=
ft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>H=
i John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you want to manag=
e the LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; independently from oth=
er LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently fr=
om the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do =
you?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-size:12.0p=
t;color:#005BD3'>[Fatai] This answer means that &quot;You&quot; don't reall=
y want to delete, reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independ=
ently from the top -of-the-stack LSP, but it does not mean that the operato=
rs don't want to do that, moreover, &quot;You&quot; should not force the op=
erators to do as what &quot;you&quot; want (ie., we could provide the optio=
ns to the operators, but we should not force the operators to do something)=
, because it will overthrow the architecture of transport networks and the =
operators' habit to manage the transport networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Fatai=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>-----Original Message=
-----<br>From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>Sent: 2011<span=
 lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>7<span lang=3D=
ZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>11<span lang=3DZH-CN s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DZH-CN> </span>19=
:04<br>To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'=
<br>Cc: 'CCAMP'<br>Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:23 AM<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Ber=
ger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs mult=
i stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You need control state for =
an LSP if you want to manage the LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; independently from other LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate st=
age H-LSPs independently from the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; top-of-the-stack LSP, do you?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>JD:&nbsp; Certainly not<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1=
s and the subsequent signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; o=
f these ODU1s can reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This could be done =
via suggested label signaled for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; ODU2 is referenced by its data plane (not control plane) I=
D.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>JD:&nbsp; We need to specify which ODU2 we are referencing in or=
der to perform call admission control of the subsequent ODU1s and to set-up=
 the data plane correctly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com=
]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11=
:37 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: 'Igor Bryskin'; John =
E Drake; 'Sadler, Jonathan B.'; 'Lou Berger'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject=
: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi Jo=
hn,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; What is the answer to Igor's question?<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fat=
ai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of Igor Bryskin<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>7<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font=
-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:=
"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span> 23:23<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 To: John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; S=
ubject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; J=
ohn,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You need control state for an LSP if you want to mana=
ge the LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; independently from ot=
her LSPs. You don't really want to delete,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; reroute, restore, etc. intermediate stage H-LSPs independently f=
rom the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; top-of-the-stack LSP, do=
 you?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; You also said:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; The ODU2 has capacity for additional ODU1s and the subsequent signali=
ng<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; of these ODU1s can reference =
that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This could be done via suggested label signaled=
 for a new ODU1, the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ODU2 is ref=
erenced by its data plane (not control plane) ID.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:09 AM<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou =
Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; If we have, for example,=
 a containing hierarchical ODU3 LSP which is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; being used to switch ODU1s via an ODU2, then with multi-stage =
labels,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; an intermediate stage sw=
itching ODU2 LSP is implicitly created as part<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; of the signaling of the first ODU1.&nbsp; The ODU2 has capac=
ity for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; additional ODU1s and the=
 subsequent signaling of these ODU1s can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; reference that ODU2.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; I have email from you agreei=
ng with this which I can trot out if<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; necessary 8-&gt;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; John<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July=
 06, 2011 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To: John =
E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sub=
ject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; You said:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set =
of one or more intermediate stage switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can be refe=
renced by subsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; s=
ignaling requests.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; What do you need the control plane =
state for?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; -----Original Mes=
sage-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; From: ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Of Jo=
hn E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday,=
 July 06, 2011 10:47 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; To:=
 Sadler, Jonathan B.; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re=
: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Jonatha=
n,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:=
Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 7:26 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: John E Drake; Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; This =
seems ambiguous depending on the scope of the term &quot;LSP&quot;.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; can refer to a dataplane construct or to a control plane=
 construct.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; Doesn't the term LSP typically r=
efer to both aspects?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I assume you mean &quo=
t;The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; creates<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; t=
he lower-layer dataplane LSP to support it in addition to the<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; service<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; A set of one or mo=
re intermediate stage switching LSPs are also<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; created in the control plane and can be referenced by su=
bsequent ODUj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; signaling req=
uests.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is all done without additional signal=
ing sessions for the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; l=
ower-layer dataplane LSP.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; JD:&nbsp; This is acco=
mplished without explicit signaling of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; intermediate stage switching LSPs?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can you validate t=
he above statement?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original=
 Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: cc=
amp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 12:58 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The signaling of an ODUj LSP automatically creates the<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; intermediate<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; switching stage LSPs necessary to support =
it within the containing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; hierarchical ODUk LSP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent from my iPhon=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at 1:40 PM, &quot;Lou Berg=
er&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think all understand that the question r=
elates to if<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; there<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; requirement to support signaling multiple =
stages in a single LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What d=
o I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt; If you disagree, please rephrase as you think is sufficient to<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; make<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; question clear.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Lou<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On 7/3/2011 12:11 PM, John E Drake wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As I think I have written at l=
east two or three times over the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; past<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; da=
y or so, I don't think the requirement as originally written<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; revis=
ed is useful because both or the two methods under<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; discussion<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; will meet it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; What do I need to write to make this clear?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent from my=
 iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On Jul 3, 2011, at=
 11:49 AM, &quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; So John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From my list:<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2) is REQ: (answe=
r yes/no, feel free to elaborate)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2A) A real requirement? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2B) A complete non-goal? (=
yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2=
C) Useful, if can find a reasonable mechanism? (yes/no)<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; 2D) Just don't care? (yes/no=
)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Are you a &quot;=
yes&quot; in 2C or 2D?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; PS I thin=
k we have 1 yes on 2A and 1 on 2B so far...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On 7/3/2011 9:23 AM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Since folks don'=
t seem to like the term 'sub-layer LSP', how<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; about<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using 'intermediate switching stage<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP'?<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To answer your question, I =
don't agree with your second<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; paragraph.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; I thought I had made it clear that I would prefer one method,<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either seq=
uential Path messages or multi-stage labels, to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; establish<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; intermediate switching stage LSPs, but not b=
oth.&nbsp; There is no<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reason to support both.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:25 PM, &quot;Fatai =
Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;zhangf=
atai@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Do you agree with my second par=
agraph in my email below?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If not, I would like to step further to make something<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; explicit.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let's continue this example below. I=
f there is no enough<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; resour=
ce<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on=
 link BC or CD (or both of them) to create ODU3 FA LSP, or<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; if<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Node C can not support ODU3 switching but support =
ODU3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; termination,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; how you c=
an create ODU0 connection with multi-stage labels?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explain a little more?=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake&lt;=
mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt=
; ; 'Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Bryskin'&lt;=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; VITTORIO)'&lt;mailto:pietro_vit=
torio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday,=
 July 01, 2011 10:51 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Please see =
the email I just sent to the CCAMP&nbsp; mailing list in<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; response to Pietro<span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s email.&nbsp; I think it=
 also addresses the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; points<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in yo=
ur email, below, and I would appreciate a line-by-line<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; analys<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is of it by you.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfata=
i@huawei.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:13 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'=
; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
(PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OK, Let<span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s converge.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think you will agree =
that multi-stage labels can only be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; some cases rat=
her than universal cases.&nbsp; Based on this example<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; below, we can create ODU3 =
FA LSP and then use one single stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing (ie., ODU0-&gt;ODU3). Another altern=
ative is to create<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ODU2<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; FA<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP and then use one single stage mux=
ing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2).&nbsp; For<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; these<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; two ways, there is no need to use multi-stage labels. I think<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can understand that these two ways a=
re better and more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; efficient<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than you=
r approach (two stages (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3) +ODU3 FA-<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; LSP).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we are merging our drafts with [draft- K=
huzema]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; give the flexibility for t=
he people to choose what they prefer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; multi-stage muxing scenario, either (single stage + H-LSP) or<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage l=
abels in some cases. We have figured out a perfect<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; unified<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solution. If people like multi-stage labels, t=
hey can choose<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; this<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach to =
use. If people do not like multi-stage labels,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; they<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ca=
n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; jus=
t choose single stage + H-LSP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: =
John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span=
>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>30<span=
 lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span> 12:13<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E D=
rake; Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: =
'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I had one clarification.&nb=
sp; Multi-stage labels can be used on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; links,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; in which case the <span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=
=A1=AE</span>containing hierarchical LSP<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier=
 New"'>=A1=AF</span> is the link<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=
=A1=AF</span>s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; OUDk/OTUk, and they would be more efficient than signaling<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multipl<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e one hop sub-layer LSPs.<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; However, I ser=
iously doubt than this will be a common case,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; because<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; having awareness of individual ODUjs in the core=
 of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; network<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; inherently less scalable than having multi-ho=
p multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'=
>=D4=C2</span>30<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5=
</span> 11:37<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP=
] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@hu=
awei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2=
011 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP]=
 RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, you admit that ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 cannot=
 be created directly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; by<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-st=
age label approach if there is no hierarchical ODU3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODU0 request? because you assume that a hierarc=
hical ODU3 (FA)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; is<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; already there=
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp=
; Absolutely.&nbsp; I think I actually stipulated this in an<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; email<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; sent you and others some months back.&nbsp; The basic idea is that<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; you<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; create the containing hierarchi=
cal&nbsp; LSP first and then use it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; establish&nbsp; OUDj client&nbsp; LSPs and their required sub-layer LSPs<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needed, with the sub-layer =
LSPs being established using one of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; two proposals being discussed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A few points for clarification, even though I =
follow your<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; thought.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How to create th=
e ODU3 FA before ODU0 request? I think it is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; still<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; H-LSP concept there.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; If the ODU0 Path =
message arrives at B, B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; holds<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it, est=
ablishes the ODU3 containing hierarchical LSP to D,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; then *either*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Creates the ODU2 sub-la=
yer by signaling D and then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; send=
s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the=
 ODU0 Path message to D *OR*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sends the ODU0 Path mes=
sage to D along with the multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; label for the ODU2 LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 FA between B and D is already there, the FA=
 should be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; regarded as one-hop, because there is no difference between<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FA and one-hop link. So, this scenario should be treated as=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; one-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; scenario rather than multi-hop (Please pay attent=
ion to this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; sentence that we are trying to make you understood many<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; times).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I told Sergio and you&nbsp; last wee=
k that I didn<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>t think=
 mul<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ti-st<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 age labels for links (one hop) were interesting or useful, and<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; tha<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t I only considered them useful in the =
context of multi-hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; multis=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; tage=
 hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; The signaling within the containing<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; hiera<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rchical LSP is between that LSP endpoin=
ts so it is one hop.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; If ODU3 between B and D is already there based on this<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; example,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; why<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it needs to use two stage muxing (ODU0-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU=
3), why not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; just<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; use the simple =
one stage muxing (ie.,ODU0-&gt;ODU3)?&nbsp; Please<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; review<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; our slides again to get more information about cons =
of multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; stage<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing(slide 5).=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp;=
 You could, if that branch is also supported.&nbsp; In your<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; figure<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; had mentally edited out the ODU0 -&gt; ODU3 branch so that w=
e had<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting scenario to=
 discuss.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fat=
ai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: J=
ohn E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span=
>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=D4=C2</span>29<span=
 lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DZ=
H-CN> </span>23:39<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Fatai Zhang; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [=
CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>=A1=AF</span>s assume we have a containing hierarchical ODU3 between n<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ode B<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and nod=
e D over which we want to establish and ODU0.&nbsp; Using<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
ub-layer hierarchical LSP approach, we would signal a sub-<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; layer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; OD<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; U2 hierarchical LSP between B and D and then signal the ODU0.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Wit<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; h multi-stage labels we would signal =
the ODU0 and include an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ODU=
2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mul=
ti-stage label.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; As I have repeatedly said, either can be made to work with<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; some<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; non-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero amount of effort, but my preference i=
s for multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; labe=
ls,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; s=
trictly from an efficiency perspective.&nbsp; There isn<span style=3D'font-=
family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>t enough<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diffe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rence between the two approaches to=
 warrant standardizing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; both.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fata=
i Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:59 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; 'Igor Bryskin'; 'GRANDI=
, PIETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (PIETRO<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTOR=
IO)'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Cc: 'CCAMP'<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Subject: RE: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Agree with Igor that let emotions as=
ide if there was some<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; impro=
per<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; w=
ording. Let<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A1=AF</span>s discuss=
 tech.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you cla=
rify your point 1) a little more? Here is a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; simple<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; example shown below.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Could you explain how to create ODU0 connection from Node A =
to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Node<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E by multi-stage la=
bels approach? What information (e.g.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; traffic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; parameters, labels) should be carried in the Path or Resv<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; message?<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What action should be tak=
en for Node C when receiving the Path<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Resv message?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;image001.png&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Mess=
age-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org=
]&gt; On Behalf Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-famil=
y:"MS Gothic"'>=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Go=
thic"'>=D4=C2</span>29<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"MS Gothic"'>=
=C8=D5</span> 6:12<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Igor Bryskin; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CC=
AMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; S=
ubject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a few clarifications.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1)&nbsp; Multi-stage labels apply equally =
well to multi-hop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; hier=
archical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; LSPs. (The is the point some people do not seem to<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; understand.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)&nbsp; It is incorrect to say that LSP hierarchy, as is, =
just<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; works<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for the establishment of a=
 hierarchical LSP that supports<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; stage switching.&nbsp; This involves a nested set of hierarchical<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSPs,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the containing hierarchical LSP a=
nd the set of sub-layer LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; provide context for intermediate stage labels, between the<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; same<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints.&nbsp; This is a new construct and there are alm=
ost<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; certainly<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; details to be work=
ed out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3)&nbsp; I d=
on't think we should standardize both approaches.&nbsp; I<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; would<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prefer that the working group pick one to s=
tandardize.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Igor Bryskin [=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:24 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO=
); John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Pietro,<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You may not like John's=
 tone, but emotions aside, what he<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; keeps<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; saying<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; repeatedly in this discussion does make perfect sense to me.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The poin=
t of CP signaling is to convey information<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; pertinent<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; t=
o<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; netw=
ork element provisioning in most efficient way. It does<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; seem<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stupid<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to signal numerous one hop hierarchical L=
SPs (when it is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; sufficient a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single end-to-end round of signaling to do the job), =
create<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; numerous extra CP st=
ates, take care of all restart<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; implications,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just to be consistent with RFC_XYZ written 10 years ago;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Besid=
es, you can think of multi-stage label as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; identification<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; new type of network resources controlled by GMP=
LS. Even the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; GMPLS<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; god-<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fathers wo=
uld agree that they never meant to limit GMPLS to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; control the<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; resources described =
in early CCAMP RFCs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Finally, no one ever said that you cannot orchestrate<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; provisioning through the hie=
rarchy of LSPs if you choose to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
do<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; so.<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &=
lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bounces@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mailto:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&g=
t; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Of GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011=
 10:43 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello John=
,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) You hav=
e forwarded to the CCamp mailing list a number of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; private<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mails without asking th=
e permission to the involved people.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; This<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; impolite and unprofessional.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) You are creating spam on the mailing list fo=
rwarding four<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; threads<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are each hundreds of lines long and very complicated to=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
follow for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; people not involved in the discussion since the beginning.<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Moreover,<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this hap=
pened after a discussion from scratch was already<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; started in<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the mailing list.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) You moved fr=
om a technical discussion to arrogant and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deliberate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; personal offenses not suppor=
ted by any sound technical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; motivation as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported in your mails and snipped below:=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;This =
shows a complete lack of understanding of hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labels, and GMPLS in general.&nbsp; =
It is so bad it is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; not<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrong.=
&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot=
; It might be more precise to say I reviewed your slides and<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; found<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them, shall we say, lacking.&quot;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We hope that =
from now on the discussion can be continued from<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; purely<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technical point of view.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio and Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evol=
ution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: &lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio=
.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:pietro_vitto=
rio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, a=
nd it seems like a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; minute.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T=
hat's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt; cc=
amp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bounces@ietf.org&=
lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]&lt;mail=
to:[mailto:ccamp-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bounces@ietf.org]&gt; On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: marted<span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 28 giugno 2011 14.13<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: CCAMP<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [=
CCAMP] FW: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday,=
 June 23, 2011 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: 'Fatai Zhang'; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORI=
O)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc:=
 Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndo=
n Ong; Steve Balls; Diego Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; Kunjidhapatham;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; D=
aniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RS=
VP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangf=
atai@huawei.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thurs=
day, June 23, 2011 9:45 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Joh=
n E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; Cc: Vallinayakam Somasundaram; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonath=
an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Hardwick; Li Dan; NSN - Cyril Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.c=
n&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; Ciena -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon Ong; Steve Balls; Die=
go Caviglia; Ashok<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Kunjidhapatha=
m;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BEL=
OTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Khuzema Pithewan; Rajan Rao; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage =
vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I guess that you did not review our slides carefully.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I will =
let this pass.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; You just see the only advantage for the corner case (i.e.,<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; establis=
h<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
multi-layers LSP concurrently), but you did not see the<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described in the slides and the issues th=
at Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; mentioned<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (eg.,<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OAM=
/protection issues).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp; I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough context.&nbsp; I =
don't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; think the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; one-hop hierarchical LSP case, w/ or w/o multi-stage labels<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; either<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interesting or common and it was no=
t the case to which I was<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; addressing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; my comments.&nbsp; Rather, I was describing t=
wo ways of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; establishing<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hop mult=
i-stage hierarchical LSPs.&nbsp; As far as I can tell the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Jonathan raised i=
n this context are red herrings rather than<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; blue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whales.&nbsp; Furthermore, regardless of which of the two<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; approaches<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; described is used, the issues, if any, would be exact=
ly the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; same.<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In addition, we have rep=
eated many times that LSP hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; must be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in many cases, even thoug=
h we have multi-stage label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; approach.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E.g., an ODU0 connection request fro=
m A to E through B, C<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; D,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; B,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C and&nbsp; D (or one of th=
em ) can not support ODU0 switching,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; HO<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUj<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ODU1 or ODU2=
 or ODU3 or ODU4) LSP must be created between B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and D<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through LSP hierarc=
hy. This example is very simple and there<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lots<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of transforms for this example to use LSP hierarch=
y.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; JD:&nbsp;=
 Please see above.&nbsp; I completely agree with you and was<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; simply<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pointing out that multi-stage label=
s can be used to improve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; wrt<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; late=
ncy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an=
d control plane overhead, the establishment of ODUj LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; within<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage hierarchical LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ----- Origin=
al Message -----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &quot;John E Drake&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne=
t&gt;jdrake@juniper.net&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: &quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO=
 (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lu=
cent.com&gt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-l=
ucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ailto=
:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; ericsson.com&gt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&lt;mailto=
:daniele.ceccarelli@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; e=
ricsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rao&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:=
rrao@infinera.com&gt;rrao@infinera.com&lt;mailto:rrao@infinera.com<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; ; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;zhangfata=
i@huawei.com&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; huawei.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan&quot;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mail=
to:kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;kpithewan@infinera.com&lt;mailto:kpithewan<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; @infinera.com<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
; &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; lucent.com&gt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lucent.com&lt;mailto:sergio.be=
lotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &quot;Ashok<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Kunjidhapatham&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
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o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ailto:akunjidhapatham@infinera.c=
om&gt;akunjidhapatham@infinera.com&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; akunjidhapatham@infinera.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Die=
go Caviglia&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;diego.caviglia@=
ericsson.com&lt;mailto:di<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; ego.caviglia@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Steve Balls&quot;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:S=
teve.Balls@metaswitch.com&gt;Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com&lt;mailto:S<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; teve.Balls@metaswitch.com<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; ; &quot;Ciena - Lyndon Ong&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com&gt;LyOng@Cien=
a.com&lt;mailto:LyOng@Ciena.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.co<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; m.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;NSN - Cyril Margaria&quot;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mail=
to:cyril.margaria@nsn.com&gt;cyril.margaria@nsn.com&lt;mailto:cyril.mar<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; garia@nsn.com<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quo=
t;Li Dan&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &lt;&lt;mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com&gt;huawei.danli@huawei.c=
om&lt;mailto:huawei.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; d=
anli@huawei.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Jonathan Hardwick&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ailto=
:Jonathan.Hardwick@<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; metaswitch.com&gt;Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com&lt;mail=
to:Jonathan.Hardwic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; k@=
metaswitch.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler&quot;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;m<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ailt=
o:jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&gt;jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com&lt;mailto:jo<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; nathan.sadler@tellabs.c=
om<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; ; &quot;Vallinayakam Somasundaram&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
lt;&lt;mailto:valli@juniper.net&gt;valli@juniper.net&lt;mailto:valli@junipe=
r.net<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:21 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN si=
ngle stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If we are talking about the establishment of LSPs u=
sing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; single-<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing,=
 I think the only thing necessary is a new label<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; format,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; believe is a bit map of tributary slots; i=
.e., LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; establishment<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single=
-stage muxing is done.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have never had a situation such as multi-stage muxing=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; before<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so we<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are breaking=
 new ground and we have two choices, either use<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy to establish multiple single-stage sub-lay=
er LSPs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; and sequentially, or include the sub-layer information<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; within<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Path<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; message for the ODUj such that the sub-layers are<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; established<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implicitly and concurrently=
 with the establishment of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; ODUj.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Either will work, but it seems to me that the latter is more<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; efficient<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrt la=
tency and control plane overhead.&nbsp; The one thing I do<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; do is to say that both are supported=
.&nbsp; If we can agree that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; we<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; will<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; only use one method to establish multi-stage LSPs, then when<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; node<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertises multi-stage support i=
n routing, we know how<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; signaling is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be accomplished.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhon=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO=
)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [m=
ailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, June 2=
0, 2011 1:31 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan Rao; Fat=
ai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjid=
hapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mai=
lto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Hardwick; T=
ellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram; GRANDI, PIETR=
O VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi =
stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems as though you consider on the same level somet=
hing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; (H-<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; conce=
pt) already used in CP managing multi-layer with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; something<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; does not exist at all.<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Operators are u=
sed to managed their CP network together<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; NMS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Most of the NMS work per-layer. The utilization=
 of a multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; stage<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; label=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; would force NMS to work in another manner with heavy<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implementati=
on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; consequences.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We should also keep in mind that multi-stage label a=
pproach<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; can<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; used in some =
cases (not for all the one-hop multi-stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; muxing)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will bring some management issues. Pl=
ease see the slides<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; that<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; sent a few days ago.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For both these reasons the &quot;optional&=
quot; condition of multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; s=
tage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; l=
abel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; concept is absolutely mandatory for us.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro, Sergio, Fatai &a=
mp; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcate=
l-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: &lt;mailto:pie=
tro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;m=
ailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a hot stove for =
a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; like<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a pretty girl for=
 an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original M=
essage-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: sabato 18 giugno 2011 2.40<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To=
: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; Rajan=
 Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ash=
ok Kunjidhapatham; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Ca=
viglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; Balls; Ciena - Lyndon Ong; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;; NSN - Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Li Dan; Jonathan Ha=
rdwick; Tellabs - Jonathan Sadler;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Somasundaram<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sub=
ject: Re: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We can certa=
inly say that a node that advertises multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support in routing M=
UST support multistage signaling.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As I said before, using mutiple RSVP =
exchanges between the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; same<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; endpoints to establish intermediate switching stages seems<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; ill-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; considered and forcing =
everyone to support two ways of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; signaling<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multistage LSPs seems like a really Bad Idea.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Joh=
n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 17, 2011, at 2:55 AM, &quot;GRANDI, PI=
ETRO VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORIO=
)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.c=
om&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.com<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; m=
ailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello John,<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; I understand that you think that the new switching type in<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; routi=
ng<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; should also convey implicitly the information that a<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage lab=
el is supported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I do not agree with this statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Implementations=
 using H-LSPs plus single stage labels are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; possible<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (and<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; already sta=
ndard) and the fact the a node supports<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new switching type is not eno=
ugh to clearly tell what<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; is<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; suppor=
ted.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [=
mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; Sent: venerd<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 17 =
giugno 2011 2.09<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Daniele<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Ceccarelli;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERG=
IO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; (SERGIO);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; =
'Ciena<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ong'; &lt;mailto:fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; %3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com=
.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn=
&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan';=
 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RSVP OTN single=
 stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Actually we are already covered.&nbsp=
;&nbsp; Our advertisements use a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching type, which is also carrie=
d in signaling.&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
means<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; get to define the signaling used for this switching type,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I am<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposing that we use m=
ultistage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: GRANDI,=
 PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel=
-lucent.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucen=
t.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:52 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarel=
li; John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; Zhang;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Caviglia; 'Steve Bal=
ls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xih=
ua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.x=
ihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihu=
a@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margari=
a'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: RS=
VP OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I&nbsp; agree with Danie=
le' statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in my mind this means that single stage label support is=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; implicit<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-stage labels should not be used unless a mach=
ine<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; explicitly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; declares the support.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pietro Vittorio Grandi<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Tel: +39 039 686 4930<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mail: &lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcat=
el-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; lucent.com&gt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pietro_vittorio.grandi@alc=
atel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; lucent.com&lt;http://lucent.com&gt;&lt;&lt;mailto:pietro_vittorio.g=
randi@alcatel-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; lucent.=
com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; mailto:pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Put your hand on a=
 hot stove for a minute, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; like<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; an<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hour.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sit with a =
pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; minute.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; relativity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (A. Einstein)<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _____=
___________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Daniele Ceccarelli<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:danie=
le.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:[mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@er=
icsson.com]&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=
=AC</span> 16 giugno 2011 15.48<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: John E Drake; Rajan Rao; Fatai Zhang;=
 Khuzema Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; BELOTTI,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; SERGIO (SERGIO); Ashok Kunjidhapatham; GRANDI, PIET=
RO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; VITTORIO<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (PIETRO<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; VITTORI=
O); Diego Caviglia; 'Steve Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:f=
u.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu=
.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Marg=
aria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RSV=
P OTN single stage vs multi stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Starting a new thread as we're now mo=
ving to signaling...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Assuming we still have not decided whether we're g=
oing to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single stage only, multi stage only or both of the=
m i<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; believe<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; per OSPF =
we need to consider backward compatibility.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An implementation RFC4328 b=
ased (that we've explicitly been<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; told<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; deprecate) is single stage based, so in case of multi stag=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; only<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mul=
ti-stage + single stage we should be able to cover<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; backward<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; compatibility issues somehow.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BR<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: John E Drake [mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sen=
t: gioved<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=A8=AC</span> 16 giugno =
2011 8.53<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; To: Rajan Rao; Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Khuzema<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: 'GRANDI,=
 PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon Ong';<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;m=
ailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:=
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonathan Hardwick'; '=
Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sadler';<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Vall=
inayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the OTN OSPF draft (=
support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage Vs Sin=
gle Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Rajan,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I didn't want to allow interoperability opti=
ons.&nbsp; I much<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; preferred<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; say that we do signaling in one way only,=
 using multistage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; labels.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; These are also needed for signaling with=
in&nbsp; hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; LSPs.=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Rajan Rao [mailto:r=
rao@infinera.com]&lt;mailto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:rrao@infinera.com]&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: =
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:46 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli; Fatai Zhang; Jo=
hn E Drake; Khuzema<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; Pithewan;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'; Ashok Kunjidhapatham<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Cc: 'GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)'; Diego<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Caviglia;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 'Steve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Balls'; 'Ciena - Lyndon=
 Ong';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn%3cmailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; &lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;&lt;mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn&gt;;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; 'NSN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cyril<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Margaria'; 'Li Dan'; 'Jonat=
han Hardwick'; 'Tellabs -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Jonath=
an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Sadler';<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; Vallinayakam Somasundaram<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Latest version of the =
OTN OSPF draft (support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; for=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi=
-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; stage Vs Single Stage labels)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; While we are making updates, =
let us discuss support<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; required<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertisement for si=
ngle/multi-stage label options:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Given that there is interest in both mu=
lti-stage label and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stage<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with H-LSPs, we should consider in=
clusion of a FLAG to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; indica=
te<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wha=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; the link is capable of.&nbsp; This will address some of the<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt; we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; have<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussed in the past relating to path computation<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; involving<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; NEs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different capabilities (inter-op).<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tha=
nks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Rajan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:CCA=
MP@ietf.org&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ____________________________=
___________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
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From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Wed Jul 13 12:58:33 2011
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To: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Once again Pierre your dynamic numbers are wrong for the current WG 
draft since your are not using OSPF-TE standard multiple instances to 
separate dynamic from static information.  Please review OSPF-TE 
standards, before asking for any changes associated with separating 
dynamic and static information.  This issue was addressed very early on 
in WSON development.
Greg
On 7/8/2011 9:22 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's
>
> Thanks for your example, which is as you said really specified.
> We then took the opportunity to work on this example with our own solution, and to do the compilation of size.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in draft-peloso:
>     - 1 static node attribute LSA: 108 bytes
>     - 1 static resource description container LSA: 1004 bytes
>     - 4 dynamic resource pool LSAs: 132 bytes each
>    Total size: 1640 bytes
>    Size of update: 132 bytes
>
> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in current WG drafts:
>     - 1 dynamic optical property LSA: 1540 bytes
>    Total size: 1540 bytes
>    Size of update: 1540 bytes
>
> The solution here are comparable regarding the overall size usage, 100 bytes at the advantage of Greg's solution.
> Ours focuses on reducing the size of updated information, with an intrinsic mechanism to perform the updates, without ambiguity for the flooding and merges.
> To avoid the pitfall introduced by the number of resources being defined in the resource block information, the example provided by Greg had to assign a Resource Block for each Wavelength Converter (200 in that case), then as many Resource Block IDs, and to enforce an appropriate Resource Block ID ordering that enables the usage of inclusive range for the definition of Resource Block Sets. This trick applied to other node's architecture, would have contrary effect on size. This point is being commented with others inside the annoted version of Greg's example.
>
> Regards,
>
> - p
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Greg Bernstein
> Envoyé : mardi 5 juillet 2011 17:25
> À : CCAMP
> Objet : [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
>
> Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of issue with the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of regenerators or wavelength converters are used in an optical system of some sort.  This is not true. The current WSON related WG drafts provide mechanisms commonly used in GMPLS routing and signaling. However these mechanisms do not furnish a "unique representation" of a given problem and never have. It is up to the user of the GMPLS routing or signaling protocol to choose the most appropriate mechanism, e.g., "range" or "list" to achieve an efficient encoding. Note that this is true of many standards beyond GMPLS.
>
> In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource pool connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or more different types of wavelength converters in this case) can be efficiently encoded. We also demonstrate that this encoding is minimalistic.  The analysis proceeds from a high level description of the system including a block diagram of system structure, and includes descriptions of the pertinent sub-TLVs used from the existing WSON WG documents, and their scaling properties.  As such one can see that the current WSON WG drafts excel in their ability to handle this case without further modification.l
>
> Best Regards
>
> Greg
>
> --
> ===================================================
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Wed Jul 13 13:09:23 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Pierre, as previously stated:

This change mixes information from "general constraints" with  "wson
specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the
CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the table.

Best Regards
Greg


On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>
> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through,
> I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals with change 2:
> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external links and the resource pools.
> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit the number of connectivity representations introduced by current extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different LSAs)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> [SNIP]
>
>> -snip-
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 3: Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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As my example showed and your co-authors confirmed there was no net size 
change in the "many resource types case" from the current WSON WG draft. 
Hence this change is not needed.
Best Regards

Greg
On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>
> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through,
> I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals with change 3:
> Reduction of the scope of Resource Block Information, to keep only resource/device description (moved the number of devices away).
> MOTIVATION: a/ to share resource description for all the (same devices) blocks (of a node), then decreasing the total size of information. b/ to create an independent flooding entity holding all the resource descriptions (which are static), the decreasing the size of updated information.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> [SNIP]
>>>>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Pierre, as previously stated multiple instances in OSPF-TE (RFC3630) 
allow one to decrease the flooding size for dynamic information. As 
RFC3630 indicates: "The Instance field is an arbitrary value used to 
maintain multiple Traffic Engineering LSAs.  A maximum of 16777216 
Traffic Engineering LSAs may be sourced by a single system.". This 
number of instances should be more than enough by far for all WSON 
applications.  Hence the proposed change is not needed.

Best Regards
Greg

On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>
> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through,
> I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals with change 1:
> Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which allows the definition of several resource entites per node independantly floodable.
> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or tear down). (Resource Pool = group of resource blocks with same connectivity constraints).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> [SNIP]
>
> ==snip== 


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Wed Jul 13 17:54:50 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Traffic Engineering Database Management Information Base=
 in support of MPLS-TE/GMPLS
	Author(s)       : Masanori Miyazawa
                          Tomohiro Otani
                          Kenji Kumaki
                          Thomas D. Nadeau
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2011-07-11

   This memo defines the Management Information Base (MIB) objects in
   order to manage traffic engineering database (TED) information with
   extension in support of Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) with
   traffic engineering (TE) as well as Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) for use
   with network management protocols.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09.txt

From cyril.margaria@nsn.com  Thu Jul 14 00:48:35 2011
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Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2027CAC27@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	A<7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com><4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com><4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com><4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694D325@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1DFB6D.6040601@grotto-networking.co! m>
From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: "ext Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, <ccamp@ietf.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jul 2011 07:48:19.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[663F5DC0:01CC41FA]
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Greg,=20


There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block IDs
with 16 bits=20
With few motivation and without any definition in the WG-drafts if they
are stable or not.
The only statement I have seen is :=20
"The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is a 16
bit integer."

I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs assignments in
nodes. If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in
general constraint can be used. Your opinion is that it should be a
separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go in
the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I would be
interested to hear other people opinions.

Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids, this
16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface) and I
did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may have
missed something, Could you indicate :=20
  - should those ID be stable or not?
  - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
  - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?=20


Best Regards


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of ext Greg Bernstein
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
> To: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe
> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>=20
> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
>=20
> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with  "wson
> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the
> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the table.
>=20
> Best Regards
> Greg
>=20
>=20
> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> > Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
> >
> > As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
proposed
> > by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
read
> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this
> one deals with change 2:
> > Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external links
> and the resource pools.
> > MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for
> > OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
the
> > number of connectivity representations introduced by current
> > extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
> > LSAs)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> > [SNIP]
> >
> >> -snip-
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
> --
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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From: Sidd Aanand <Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:04:22 -0400
Thread-Topic: Questions about the merged OSPF OTN draft.
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Questions about the merged OSPF OTN draft.
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Hello Authors,

A few questions regarding the latest draft:


1.       The MAX LSP BW that's advertised in the ISCD part (the one that we=
 discussed could be used for pruning purposes): This is really the MAX AVAIL=
ABLE LSP BW, right? In other words, as links are added/deleted from the TE-l=
ink or as LSPs are created/deleted on the TE link, this field would get upda=
ted, right?

2.       In the examples, the T/S bits are not marked. Suggest that add the=
 T/S bit values in each example for the sake of clarity. More importantly, w=
e'd like to ensure our understanding is correct for this particular example:=
 ODU1->ODU2->ODU3. For ODU1, we'd have S=3D1, T=3D0. For ODU2, do we set bot=
h the T/S bits to 1? Same question for ODU3.

3.       In most examples and in particular in Ex. 5.4, when a ODU2->ODU3->O=
DU4, we are not sure how we would get the num-odus as 10?  Since there are o=
nly two ODU3s on ODU4 and each ODU3 can accommodate 4 ODU2s, shouldn't it be=
 8 ODUs? It is understandable the num-odus will be 10 when ODU2 is stacked o=
n top of ODU4 directly.

4.       In case of link bundling (ex 5.5), why do we need  a separate SCSI=
 for Component Link #3? Can we not have it as another TLV under the same SCS=
I. We couldn't understand the benefit of having another SCSI for it. It'd be=
 great if you can provide explanation for that.

5.       In Section 3 of the draft, we seem to be using the term ODU-k TE li=
nk to describe what is really a OTU-k TE-link. The previous draft used the t=
erm OTU-k TE link. So I am not sure why we have changed it. In any case, it=
 doesn't seem to have much bearing on rest of the document.

Thanks,
Sidd


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlin=
k=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hello Author=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A few questions regarding the latest draft:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style=
=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </spa=
n></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The MAX LSP BW that&#8217;s advertised in th=
e ISCD part (the one that we discussed could be used for pruning purposes):=
 This is really the MAX AVAILABLE LSP BW, right? In other words, as links ar=
e added/deleted from the TE-link or as LSPs are created/deleted on the TE li=
nk, this field would get updated, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
ListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !su=
pportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style=3D'font:7.0p=
t "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></sp=
an><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:#1F497D'>In the examples, the T/S bits are not marked. Suggest tha=
t add the T/S bit values in each example for the sake of clarity. More impor=
tantly, we&#8217;d like to ensure our understanding is correct for this part=
icular example: ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3. For ODU1, we&#8217;d have S=3D1, T=
=3D0. For ODU2, do we set both the T/S bits to 1? Same question for ODU3.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;m=
so-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:I=
gnore'>3.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In most examples and in=
 particular in Ex. 5.4, when a ODU2-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4, we are not sure how w=
e would get the num-odus as 10? &nbsp;Since there are only two ODU3s on ODU4=
 and each ODU3 can accommodate 4 ODU2s, shouldn&#8217;t it be 8 ODUs? It is=
 understandable the num-odus will be 10 when ODU2 is stacked on top of ODU4=
 directly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-in=
dent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style=
=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In case of=
 link bundling (ex 5.5), why do we need&nbsp; a separate SCSI for Component=
 Link #3? Can we not have it as another TLV under the same SCSI. We couldn&#=
8217;t understand the benefit of having another SCSI for it. It&#8217;d be g=
reat if you can provide explanation for that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![=
if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style=3D'fon=
t:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></spa=
n></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'>In Section 3 of the draft, we seem to be using the=
 term ODU-k TE link to describe what is really a OTU-k TE-link. The previous=
 draft used the term OTU-k TE link. So I am not sure why we have changed it.=
 In any case, it doesn&#8217;t seem to have much bearing on rest of the docu=
ment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:#1F497D'>Sidd<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p>
This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informat=
ion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If yo=
u have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phon=
e or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.
</p>
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "'CCAMP'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:12:43 +0200
Thread-Topic: OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info
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Subject: [CCAMP] OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info
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Dear CCAMPers,

Some open issues need to be clarified in order to update the OTN framework =
and OTN info model drafts. The list of issues that we'd like to bring to yo=
ur attention is:

1. TS granularity/Payload type autonegotiation
At interface commisioning time there is no default adaptation value. The ty=
pe of adaptation is vendor specific and is provided as soon as a client req=
uest is received on the server trail. The type of adaptation is linked to t=
he Payload type..
Given that no default value is available, there is the need for the nodes t=
o advertise the supported payload types and for the signaling to configure =
the correct payload on the end nodes.

2. When setting up a server trail, it is needed to signal which is the rang=
e of client that will be supported in order to be able to select the correc=
t interface on the end nodes.
Payload type information is not enough, because Payload type tells how clie=
nts are mapped in the server trail and not which client adaptations are ava=
ilable.

3) It is possible to summarize possible requirement from CP prospective :
*       TS/PT has to be signaled in case of auto-negotiation disabled or we=
 do not force the structuring of the server.
*       TS/PT has to be advertised by routing in case no NMS configuration =
or LMP is provided


4. It is needed to analyze whether  the current IACD structure is enough in=
 order to represent correctly the mapping of  "non OTN client" over OTN ser=
ver trails.

5. The merged signaling draft contains a set of requirement that, if approv=
ed, will have to be moved to the framework draft. Once this is done, the in=
fo model draft will have
to be updated accordingly.

We would like to address these open points and make an update of the draft =
after this forthcoming 81th IETF meeting.
It would be important either just via mailing list or better , exploiting t=
he IETF meeting in July, starting to discuss these subjects.

Thanks

Best Regards

Daniele, Fatai, Pietro, Sergio

SERGIO BELOTTI

ALCATEL-LUCENT
Terrestrial System Architect
Optics Portfolio Evolution

via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)  Italy
T: +39 0396863033
Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com






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<div>Dear CCAMPers,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Some open issues need to be clarified in order to update the OTN frame=
work and OTN info model drafts. The list of issues that we'd like to bring =
to your attention is:</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>1. TS granularity/Payload type autonegotiation </div>
<div>At interface commisioning time there is no default adaptation value. T=
he type of adaptation is vendor specific and is provided as soon as a clien=
t request is received on the server trail. The type of adaptation is linked=
 to the Payload type.. </div>
<div>Given that no default value is available, there is the need for the no=
des to advertise the supported payload types and for the signaling to confi=
gure the correct payload on the end nodes.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>2. When setting up a server trail, it is needed to signal which is the=
 range of client that will be supported in order to be able to select the c=
orrect interface on the end nodes.<br>

Payload type information is not enough, because Payload type tells how clie=
nts are mapped in the server trail and not which client adaptations are ava=
ilable.</div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div>3) It is possible to summarize possible requirement from CP prospectiv=
e :</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; ">
<li>TS/PT has to be signaled in case of auto-negotiation disabled or we do =
not force the structuring of the server.&nbsp; </li><li>TS/PT has to be adv=
ertised by routing in case no NMS configuration or LMP is provided</li></ul=
>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div>4. It is needed to analyze whether &nbsp;the current IACD structure is=
 enough in order to represent correctly the mapping of &nbsp;&#8220;non OTN=
 client&#8221; over OTN server trails.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>5. The merged signaling draft contains a set of requirement that, if a=
pproved, will have to be moved to the framework draft. Once this is done, t=
he info model draft will have</div>
<div>to be updated accordingly. </div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">We would like to address these open =
points and make an update of the draft after this forthcoming 81th IETF mee=
ting.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">It would be important either just vi=
a mailing list or better , exploiting the IETF meeting in July, starting to=
 discuss these subjects.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">Thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">Best Regards</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">Daniele, Fatai, Pietro, Sergio</font=
></div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<a name=3D"_MailAutoSig"></a>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif"><b>SERGIO BELOTTI</b></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080">ALCATEL-LUCENT</fo=
nt></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080">Terrestrial System=
 Architect</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080">Optics Portfolio E=
volution</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080">via Trento 30 , Vi=
mercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080">T: &#43;39 0396863=
033</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#800080"><b>Sergio.Belotti@=
alcatel-lucent.com</b></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#800080">=
&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#800080">=
&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
<div><font face=3D"Trebuchet MS, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div=
>
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From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Thu Jul 14 03:36:08 2011
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Sidd Aanand <Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:36:03 +0200
Thread-Topic: Questions about the merged OSPF OTN draft.
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Questions about the merged OSPF OTN draft.
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Hi Sidd,

thanks for the careful review. Please find answers to your questions inline=
.

BR
Daniele

________________________________
From: Sidd Aanand [mailto:Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com]
Sent: gioved=EC 14 luglio 2011 10.04
To: Daniele Ceccarelli
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: Questions about the merged OSPF OTN draft.

Hello Authors,

A few questions regarding the latest draft:


1.       The MAX LSP BW that's advertised in the ISCD part (the one that we=
 discussed could be used for pruning purposes): This is really the MAX AVAI=
LABLE LSP BW, right? In other words, as links are added/deleted from the TE=
-link or as LSPs are created/deleted on the TE link, this field would get u=
pdated, right?

[DC] Right.

2.       In the examples, the T/S bits are not marked. Suggest that add the=
 T/S bit values in each example for the sake of clarity. More importantly, =
we'd like to ensure our understanding is correct for this particular exampl=
e: ODU1->ODU2->ODU3. For ODU1, we'd have S=3D1, T=3D0. For ODU2, do we set =
both the T/S bits to 1? Same question for ODU3.

[DC] There is an example dedicated to each topic, i would prefer not to foc=
us on T/S bits on different example. Maybe it is worth exanding example 5.1=
 for a more detailed and exhaustive analysis of the T/S bits utilization. W=
ith respect to the example as it is now, the ODU1->ODU2->ODU3 hierarchy as =
it is now does not tell you much about termination and switching capabiliti=
es. For sure ODU2 and ODU3 must be AT LEAST terminated in order to extract =
the ODU2 from the ODU3 and the ODU1 from the ODU2, but then the ODU3 and OD=
U2 could be also switched or not and the ODU1 could be S only, T only or bo=
th (it is not specified). We'll add some text to the example and have a mor=
e complex hierarchy so to have a more exhaustive example.

3.       In most examples and in particular in Ex. 5.4, when a ODU2->ODU3->=
ODU4, we are not sure how we would get the num-odus as 10?  Since there are=
 only two ODU3s on ODU4 and each ODU3 can accommodate 4 ODU2s, shouldn't it=
 be 8 ODUs? It is understandable the num-odus will be 10 when ODU2 is stack=
ed on top of ODU4 directly.

[DC] what you say is correct, indeed there is a mistake :-)

This is correct as ODU2 is directly muxed into the ODU4

   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |        Type =3D 1 (BW-fix)      |           Length              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |Sig type=3DODU2  |  #stages=3D 1   |F|T|S|   Res   |1|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |  Stage#1=3DODU4 |                   Padding                     |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |   Unres ODUk at Prio 0 =3D10    |    Unres ODUk at Prio 3 =3D10   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

while this isn't correct

   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |        Type =3D 1 (BW-fix)      |           Length              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |Sig type=3DODU2  |  #stages=3D 2   |F|T|S|   Res   |1|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   | Stage#1=3DODU3  | Stage#2=3DODU4  |             Padding           |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |   Unres ODUk at Prio 0 =3D10    |    Unres ODUk at Prio 3 =3D10   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

the correct value is 8.



4.       In case of link bundling (ex 5.5), why do we need  a separate SCSI=
 for Component Link #3? Can we not have it as another TLV under the same SC=
SI. We couldn't understand the benefit of having another SCSI for it. It'd =
be great if you can provide explanation for that.

[DC] This point was raised by Xihua in these days, this is the reason:

there are some "unlucky" cases in which bundling component links with dissi=
milar hierarchies could cause ambiguities.
Let's try to analize one of them. Suppose to have the following hierarchies=
 supported (quite similar to the one present in the -06 version of the draf=
t)

Component Link#1      Component Link#2
         ODU0                  ODU0
          |                     |
         ODU3                  ODU3
          |                     |
         ODU4                  ODU4

We said that the advertisement of intermediate layers bandwidth is required=
 in order to know how many FA can be set up. In this case, the advertisemen=
t of both
ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
ODU3->ODU4
available bandwidth is performed so to know how many ODU3 FA can be setup. =
In the case above it is possible to advertise the 2 component links into th=
e same SCSI.
On the other side, if you have to bundle the 3 component links in the follo=
wing, there could be an ambiguity:

Component Link#1      Component Link#2     Component Link#3
         ODU0                  ODU0
          |                     |                  ODU3
         ODU3                  ODU3                 |
          |                     |                  ODU4
         ODU4                  ODU4

Merging all the component links into the same SCSI would cause this type of=
 advertisement:

ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
ODU3->ODU4

But in this case it is not possible to know how many ODU3->ODU4 are availal=
be for ODU3 FA set up (i.e. belonging to the ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 hierarchy) an=
d how many simple ODU3 cannot be used for ODU0 transport (i.e. belonging to=
 ODU3->ODU4 hierarchy).

This issue *does not* prevent to perform the bundling of the three componen=
t links and can be simply solved advertising component links #1 and #2 into=
 an SCSI and component link #3 in a different one (all inside the same ISCD=
).




5.       In Section 3 of the draft, we seem to be using the term ODU-k TE l=
ink to describe what is really a OTU-k TE-link. The previous draft used the=
 term OTU-k TE link. So I am not sure why we have changed it. In any case, =
it doesn't seem to have much bearing on rest of the document.
 [DC] Yes, terminology needs to be uniformed
Thanks,
Sidd

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you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, p=
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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Hi=20
Sidd,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>thanks=20
for the careful review. Please find answers to your questions=20
inline.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>BR</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Sidd Aanand=20
[mailto:Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=EC 14 luglio 2011=
=20
10.04<BR><B>To:</B> Daniele Ceccarelli<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'CCAMP'<BR><B>Subject:=
</B>=20
Questions about the merged OSPF OTN draft.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Hello=20
Authors,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">A=20
few questions regarding the latest draft:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P><![if !supportLists]>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">1.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">The=20
MAX LSP BW that=92s advertised in the ISCD part (the one that we discussed =
could=20
be used for pruning purposes): This is really the MAX AVAILABLE LSP BW, rig=
ht?=20
In other words, as links are added/deleted from the TE-link or as LSPs are=
=20
created/deleted on the TE link, this field would get updated, right?<SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>[DC]&nbsp;Right.</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><![if !s=
upportLists]>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">2.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">In=20
the examples, the T/S bits are not marked. Suggest that add the T/S bit val=
ues=20
in each example for the sake of clarity. More importantly, we=92d like to e=
nsure=20
our understanding is correct for this particular example:=20
ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3. For ODU1, we=92d have S=3D1, T=3D0. For ODU2, do we=
 set both=20
the T/S bits to 1? Same question for ODU3.<SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011>=
<FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[DC]=
 There is an=20
example dedicated to each topic, i would prefer not to focus on T/S bits on=
=20
different example. Maybe it is worth exanding example 5.1 for a more=20
detailed&nbsp;and exhaustive analysis of the T/S bits utilization. With res=
pect=20
to the example as it is now, the ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 hierarchy as it is =
now=20
does not tell you much about termination and switching capabilities. For su=
re=20
ODU2 and ODU3&nbsp;must be AT LEAST terminated in order to&nbsp;extract the=
 ODU2=20
from the ODU3 and the ODU1 from the&nbsp;ODU2, but then the ODU3 and ODU2=20
could&nbsp;be also switched or not and the ODU1 could be S only, T only or =
both=20
(it is not specified).&nbsp;We'll add&nbsp;some text to the example=20
and&nbsp;have a more complex hierarchy so to have a more exhaustive=20
example.</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><![if !supportLists]>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">3.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">In=20
most examples and in particular in Ex. 5.4, when a ODU2-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4, =
we=20
are not sure how we would get the num-odus as 10? &nbsp;Since there are onl=
y two=20
ODU3s on ODU4 and each ODU3 can accommodate 4 ODU2s, shouldn=92t it be 8 OD=
Us? It=20
is understandable the num-odus will be 10 when ODU2 is stacked on top of OD=
U4=20
directly.<SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000f=
f=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[DC]=
 what you say=20
is&nbsp;correct, indeed there is a mistake :-)</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>This=
 is correct=20
as ODU2 is directly muxed into the ODU4</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; TEXT-TRANSFORM:=
 none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA=
CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bor=
der-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-=
text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px"><PRE style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">   +-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |        Type =3D 1 (BW-fix)      |           Length              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |Sig type=3DODU2  |  #stages=3D 1   |F|T|S|   Res   |1|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |  Stage#1=3DODU4 |                   Padding                     |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |   Unres ODUk at Prio 0 =3D10    |    Unres ODUk at Prio 3 =3D10   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</PRE><=
/SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>whil=
e&nbsp;this=20
isn't</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>correct</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; TEXT-TRANSFORM:=
 none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA=
CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bor=
der-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-=
text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px"><PRE style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">   +-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |        Type =3D 1 (BW-fix)      |           Length              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |Sig type=3DODU2  |  #stages=3D 2   |F|T|S|   Res   |1|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   | Stage#1=3DODU3  | Stage#2=3DODU4  |             Padding           |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |   Unres ODUk at Prio 0 =3D10    |    Unres ODUk at Prio 3 =3D10   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</PRE><=
/SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011></SPAN><o:p><SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FO=
NT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the correct value is=20
8.</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P><![if !supportLists]>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">4.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">In=20
case of link bundling (ex 5.5), why do we need&nbsp; a separate SCSI for=20
Component Link #3? Can we not have it as another TLV under the same SCSI. W=
e=20
couldn=92t understand the benefit of having another SCSI for it. It=92d be =
great if=20
you can provide explanation for that.<SPAN class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT=
=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[DC]=
 This point=20
was&nbsp;raised by Xihua in these&nbsp;days,&nbsp;this&nbsp;is&nbsp;the=20
reason:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>there=20
are some "unlucky" cases in which bundling component links with dissimilar=
=20
hierarchies could cause ambiguities.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>Let's=20
try to analize one of them. Suppose to have the following hierarchies suppo=
rted=20
(quite similar to the one present in the -06 version of the=20
draft)</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; TEXT-TRANSFORM:=
 none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA=
CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bor=
der-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-=
text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-t=
ext-stroke-width: 0px"><PRE style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Component Link#=
1      Component Link#2   =20
      <SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011>  </SPAN> ODU0             <SPAN cla=
ss=3D780071310-12072011>    </SPAN> ODU0           =20
          |                     |                 =20
         ODU3                  ODU3               =20
          |                     |                 =20
         ODU4                  ODU4</PRE></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>We=20
said that the advertisement of intermediate layers bandwidth is required in=
=20
order to know how many FA can be set up. In this case, the advertisement of=
 both=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 and </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011></SPAN><SPAN class=3D780071310-120720=
11><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>ODU3-&gt;ODU4 </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>available bandwidth is performed so to know how many ODU3 FA can b=
e=20
setup. In the case above it is possible to advertise the 2 component links =
into=20
the same SCSI.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>On the=20
other side, if you have to bundle the 3 component links in the following, t=
here=20
could be an ambiguity:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><PRE style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Component Link#=
1      Component Link#2     Component Link#3
      <SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011>  </SPAN> ODU0             <SPAN cla=
ss=3D780071310-12072011>    </SPAN> ODU0           =20
          |                     |                  ODU3
         ODU3                  ODU3                 |
          |                     |                  ODU4
         ODU4                  ODU4</PRE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Merging all the component links into the same SCSI would cause thi=
s type=20
of advertisement:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 and </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011></SPAN><SPAN class=3D780071310-120720=
11><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>ODU3-&gt;ODU4 </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>But in=20
this case it is not possible to know how many ODU3-&gt;ODU4 are availalbe f=
or=20
ODU3 FA set up (i.e. belonging to the ODU0-&gt;ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy) and=
 how=20
many simple ODU3 cannot be used for ODU0 transport (i.e. belonging to=20
ODU3-&gt;ODU4 hierarchy).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>This=20
issue *does not* prevent to perform the bundling of the three component lin=
ks=20
and can be simply solved advertising component links #1 and #2 into an SCSI=
 and=20
component link #3 in a different one (all inside the same=20
ISCD).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D780071310-12072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2">&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p>=
</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportList=
s]><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">5.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">In=20
Section 3 of the draft, we seem to be using the term ODU-k TE link to descr=
ibe=20
what is really a OTU-k TE-link. The previous draft used the term OTU-k TE l=
ink.=20
So I am not sure why we have changed it. In any case, it doesn=92t seem to =
have=20
much bearing on rest of the document.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;<SPAN=20
class=3D291415909-14072011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[DC]=
 Yes,=20
terminology needs to be uniformed</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Sidd<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains=20
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om.=20
If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail=
,=20
phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.=20
</P></BODY></HTML>

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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:29:45 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info
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Subject: [CCAMP] R:  OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info
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Hi Xihua,

please see in line.

Thanks
sergio


SERGIO BELOTTI

ALCATEL-LUCENT
Terrestrial System Architect
Optics Portfolio Evolution

via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)  Italy
T: +39 0396863033
Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com

________________________________
Da: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn]
Inviato: gioved=EC 14 luglio 2011 14.59
A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info


Hi Sergio,

I suppose you are talking about the requirement and solution at the same ti=
me.
I have some comments. Pls see inline.

Xihua

> Dear CCAMPers,
>
> Some open issues need to be clarified in order to update the OTN
> framework and OTN info model drafts. The list of issues that we'd
> like to bring to your attention is:
>
> 1. TS granularity/Payload type autonegotiation
> At interface commisioning time there is no default adaptation value.
> The type of adaptation is vendor specific and is provided as soon as
> a client request is received on the server trail. The type of
> adaptation is linked to the Payload type..
> Given that no default value is available, there is the need for the
> nodes to advertise the supported payload types and for the signaling
> to configure the correct payload on the end nodes.

[Xihua]: Could we use notify (CALL) message to negotiation the adapation ty=
pes
before you trigger the client layer which will be over server layer by one =
adaptation type.
SB> Yes it could be a method , but first we need to under stand and agree o=
n the needs and requirement, Framework, and then analyze whether actual sig=
nalling/routing solution have to be update, that is the Info scope.


>
> 2. When setting up a server trail, it is needed to signal which is
> the range of client that will be supported in order to be able to
> select the correct interface on the end nodes.
> Payload type information is not enough, because Payload type tells
> how clients are mapped in the server trail and not which client
> adaptations are available.
>
> 3) It is possible to summarize possible requirement from CP prospective :
> TS/PT has to be signaled in case of auto-negotiation disabled or we
> do not force the structuring of the server.
[Xihua]:  TS granularity has been taken in label. So what do you want?
Is G-PID in LABEL_REQUEST enough for payload type requirement?

SB> You misunderstood the problem : how can you signal TS granularity for a=
n HO trail , when no structured has been made ??? The TS granularity is pre=
sent but not for the signal on the server trail.


> TS/PT has to be advertised by routing in case no NMS configuration
> or LMP is provided
[Xihua]: Do you mean we have to consider TS granularity in OSPF again?
IMO, we don't consider TS granularity in current OTN-OSPF draft.
The requirement is not clear for me.

SB> TS granularit=E0 should be negotiated link by link and in case LMP is p=
resent no prolblem. Other alternative is to have NMS that can configure TS =
as it is needed.
But the only other alternative in case the first two are not present , is t=
o have TS granularity/PT information inside the routing.


>
>
> 4. It is needed to analyze whether  the current IACD structure is
> enough in order to represent correctly the mapping of  "non OTN
> client" over OTN server trails.
>
> 5. The merged signaling draft contains a set of requirement that, if
> approved, will have to be moved to the framework draft. Once this is
> done, the info model draft will have
> to be updated accordingly.
>
> We would like to address these open points and make an update of the
> draft after this forthcoming 81th IETF meeting.
> It would be important either just via mailing list or better ,
> exploiting the IETF meeting in July, starting to discuss these subjects.
>
> Thanks
>
> Best Regards
>
> Daniele, Fatai, Pietro, Sergio
>
> SERGIO BELOTTI
>
> ALCATEL-LUCENT
> Terrestrial System Architect
> Optics Portfolio Evolution
>
> via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)  Italy
> T: +39 0396863033
> Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>please see in line.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>SERGIO BELOTTI</span></font=
></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>ALCATEL-LUCENT</span></font><font color=3D=
blue><span
style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Terrestrial System Architect</span>=
</font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Optics Portfolio Evolution</span></=
font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy<=
/span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>T: +39 0396863033</span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple;font-weight:bold'>Sergio.Belotti@alc=
atel-lucent.com</span></font></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> gioved=EC 14 luglio=
 2011
14.59<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP';
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] OTN ope=
n
issues for OTN framework and OTN Info</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Hi Sergio,</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>I
suppose you are talking about the requirement and solution at the same time=
.</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>I
have some comments. Pls see inline.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:sans-serif'>Xihua</span></font><br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Dear CCAMPers,</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Some open issues need to be clarified in order=
 to
update the OTN </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; framework and OTN info model drafts. The list =
of
issues that we'd </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; like to bring to your attention is:</font></tt=
> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; 1. TS granularity/Payload type autonegotiation=
 </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; At interface commisioning time there is no def=
ault
adaptation value.</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; The type of adaptation is vendor specific and =
is
provided as soon as</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; a client request is received on the server tra=
il.
The type of </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; adaptation is linked to the Payload type.. </f=
ont></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Given that no default value is available, ther=
e is
the need for the </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; nodes to advertise the supported payload types=
 and
for the signaling</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; to configure the correct payload on the end no=
des.</font></tt>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri'>[<b><font
color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red;font-weight:bold'>Xihua</span></font><=
/b>]:
Could we use notify (CALL) message to negotiation the adapation types </spa=
n></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri'>before
you trigger the client layer which will be over server layer by one adaptat=
ion
type. </span></font><br>
<font color=3Dblue><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:blue'>SB&gt; Yes it co=
uld be a
method , but first we need to under stand and agree on the needs and
requirement, Framework, and then analyze whether actual signalling/routing
solution have to be update, that is the Info scope.<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><tt><font face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>&gt; </span></font=
></tt><tt><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>&nbsp;</span></font></tt><span
lang=3DEN-GB> <br>
</span><tt><font face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>&gt; 2. When setting up a=
 server
trail, it is needed to signal which is </span></font></tt><span lang=3DEN-G=
B><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; the range of client that will be supported in =
order
to be able to </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; select the correct interface on the end nodes.=
</font></tt><br>
</span><tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Payload type information is not enough,=
 because
Payload type tells </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; how clients are mapped in the server trail and=
 not
which client </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; adaptations are available.</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; 3) It is possible to summarize possible requir=
ement
from CP prospective :</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; TS/PT has to be signaled in case of auto-negot=
iation
disabled or we </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; do not force the structuring of the server. </=
font></tt><tt><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span=
></font></tt>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri'>[<b><font
color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red;font-weight:bold'>Xihua</span></font><=
/b>]:
&nbsp;TS granularity has been taken in label. So what do you want?</span></=
font>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri'>Is
G-PID in LABEL_REQUEST enough for payload type requirement?</span></font> <=
font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>SB&gt; You misunde=
rstood
the problem : how can you signal TS granularity for an HO trail , when no s=
tructured
has been made ??? The TS granularity is present but not for the signal on t=
he
server trail.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font><tt><font face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>&gt; TS/PT has to =
be
advertised by routing in case no NMS configuration </span></font></tt><span
lang=3DEN-GB><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; or LMP is provided</font></tt></span><span
lang=3DEN-GB> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>[<b><font color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red;font-we=
ight:
bold'>Xihua</span></font></b>]: Do you mean we have to consider TS granular=
ity
in OSPF again? &nbsp;</span></font><span lang=3DEN-GB> <br>
</span><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
Calibri'>IMO, we don't consider TS granularity in current OTN-OSPF draft. <=
/span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri'>The
requirement is not clear for me.</span></font> <font color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>SB&gt; TS granular=
it=E0 should
be negotiated link by link and in case LMP is present no prolblem. Other
alternative is to have NMS that can configure TS as it is needed.<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>But the only other
alternative in case the first two are not present , is to have TS
granularity/PT information inside the routing. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font><tt><font face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>&gt; </span></font=
></tt><tt><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>&nbsp;</span></font></tt><span
lang=3DEN-GB> <br>
</span><tt><font face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>&gt; </span></font></tt><=
tt><font
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'=
>&nbsp;</span></font></tt><span
lang=3DEN-GB> <br>
</span><tt><font face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>&gt; 4. It is needed to a=
nalyze
whether </span></font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-G=
B
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt><tt><font
face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>the current IACD structure is </span></fon=
t></tt><span
lang=3DEN-GB><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; enough in order to represent correctly the map=
ping
of </font></tt></span><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&#8220;</span></font></tt><tt><fo=
nt
face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB>non OTN </span></font></tt><span lang=3DEN=
-GB><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; client</font></tt></span><tt><font face=3D"Cou=
rier New"><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8221;</span></font></tt>=
<tt><font
face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DEN-GB> over OTN server trails.</span></font></tt=
><span
lang=3DEN-GB> <br>
</span><tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; 5. The merged signaling draft contains a set o=
f
requirement that, if</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; approved, will have to be moved to the framewo=
rk
draft. Once this is</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; done, the info model draft will have</font></t=
t> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; to be updated accordingly. </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; We would like to address these open points and=
 make
an update of the</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; draft after this forthcoming 81th IETF meeting=
.</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; It would be important either just via mailing =
list
or better , </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; exploiting the IETF meeting in July, starting =
to
discuss these subjects.</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Thanks</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Best Regards</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Daniele, Fatai, Pietro, Sergio</font></tt> <br=
>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; SERGIO BELOTTI</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; ALCATEL-LUCENT</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Terrestrial System Architect</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Optics Portfolio Evolution</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) </font></tt><tt>=
<font
face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span=
></font>Italy</tt>
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; T: +39 0396863033</font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com</font></tt> =
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></tt> <br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; </font></tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><sp=
an
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>___________________=
____________________________</tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; CCAMP mailing list</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</f=
ont></tt><o:p></o:p></p>

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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>
To: "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
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CCAMP,

The draft agenda is available:
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda

Let us know if we missed anyone-
Deborah and Lou


From tnadeau@lucidvision.com  Thu Jul 14 06:48:34 2011
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	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I =
go to that link:

IETF-81 ccamp agenda
Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or =
the document has not yet been submitted.


On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:

> CCAMP,
>=20
> The draft agenda is available:
> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda
>=20
> Let us know if we missed anyone-
> Deborah and Lou
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20


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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:57:16 -0400
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>
To: "Thomas Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
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Hi Tom,

Not sure why you don't see it, Lou and I see this (format not as nice as =
on the page, but you can check for your draft):

IETF-81 ccamp agenda
Session 2011-07-26 0900-1130: 206 B - Audio stream - ccamp chatroom
Session 2011-07-28 1300-1500: 206 A - Audio stream - ccamp chatroom

iCal: ietf-81-ccamp.ics

Agenda
  =20
IETF 81 -- CCAMP Agenda
     CCAMP Agenda=20
             for the=20
     81th IETF Meeting=20
     =20
     Version: Jul 13, 2011=20
     Agenda Slides=20
     http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda=20
     =20
     First Session =20
     Tuesday July 26, 2011=20
     Morning Session I 0900-1130=20
     Room Name: 206 B=20
Presentation  Start Time Duration Information =20
1   9:00 5 Title: Administrivia=20
    Draft: =20
    Presenter: Chairs=20
2   9:05 10 Title: WG status, RFCs, drafts, milestones, charter, errata=20
    Draft: =20
    Presenter: Chairs=20
3   9:15 5 Title: Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of G.709 Optical =
Transport Networks=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework=20
    Presenter: Fatai Zhang=20
4   9:20 5 Title: Information model for G.709 Optical Transport Networks =
(OTN)=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model=20
    Presenter: Sergio Belotti=20
5   9:25 15 Title: Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for =
Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709=20
    Presenter: Daniele Ceccarelli=20
6   9:40 20 Title: Discussion on OTN signaling: implicit vs explicit=20
    Draft: =20
    Presenter: Chairs=20
7   10:00 10 Title: Signaling Extensions for the evolving G.709 Optical =
Transport Networks Control=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08=20
    Presenter: Fatai Zhang=20
8   10:10 10 Title: Signaling Extensions for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) =
Control of G.709 Optical Transport Networks=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-khuzema-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709-01=20
    Presenter: Khuzema Pithewan=20
9   10:20 10 Title: RSVP-TE Signaling Extension for Explicit Control of =
LSP Boundary in A GMPLS-Based Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networks =
(MRN/MLN)=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-boundary-explicit-control-ext=
-03=20
    Presenter: Xihua Fu=20
10   10:30 10 Title: Updates to ASON Routing for OSPFv2 Protocols (RFC =
5787bis)=20
    Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-02=20
    Presenter: Andy Malis=20
11   10:40 10 Title: GMPLS RSVP-TE extensions for OAM Configuration=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-05, =
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-eth-oam-ext-05, =
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-05, =
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-02=20
    Presenter: Elisa Bellagamba and Attila Takacs =20
12   10:50 8 Title: Usage of The RSVP Association Object=20
    Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-assoc-info-02=20
    Presenter: Lou Berger=20
13   10:58 7 Title: Usage of The RSVP Association Object=20
    Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-assoc-ext-00=20
    Presenter: Lou Berger=20
14   11:05 10 Title: RSVP-TE Extensions to Establish Associated =
Bidirectional LSP=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated=
-lsp-01=20
    Presenter: Fei Zhang=20
15   11:15 10 Title: RSVP-TE Extensions to Notification for Shared Mesh =
Protection=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-he-ccamp-notification-shared-mesh-protec=
tion-00=20
    Presenter: Fei Zhang=20
16   11:25      =20
     =20
     =20
Adjourn   11:25      =20
     =20
     Second Session=20
     Thursday, July 28, 2011=20
     Afternoon Session I 1300-1500=20
     Room Name: 206 A=20
Presentation  Start Time Duration Information =20
1   13:00 5 Title: Administrivia=20
    Draft: =20
    Presenter: Chairs=20
17   13:05 10 Title: Behavior Negotiation in The Link Management =
Protocol=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-lmp-behavior-negotiation-02=20
    Presenter: Dan Li=20
18   13:15 5 Title: Intro to WSON Discussion=20
    Draft: =20
    Presenter: Chairs=20
19   13:20 10 Title: General Network Element Constraint Encoding for =
GMPLS Controlled=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-04 =

    Presenter: Greg Bernstein=20
20   13:30 20 Title: Discussion on proposed changes=20
    Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo=20
    Presenter: Pierre Peloso=20
21   13:50 10 Title: WSON Optical Interface Class=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-martinelli-wson-interface-class-00=20
    Presenter: Giovanni Martinelli=20
22   14:00 10 Title: Flexible Grid Label Format in Wavelength Switched =
Optical Network=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ccamp-flexible-grid-label-00=20
    Presenter: Yao Li=20
23   14:10 10 Title: A framework for Management and Control of optical =
interfaces supporting G.698.2=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kunze-g-698-2-management-control-framewo=
rk-00=20
    Presenter: R=FCdiger Kunze=20
24   14:20 10 Title: A SNMP MIB to manage the optical colored interfaces =
of a DWDM network=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-galimbe-kunze-g-698-2-snmp-mib-00=20
    Presenter: Gabriele Galimberti=20
25   14:30 10 Title: RSVP-TE Extensions for Configuration SRLG of an FA=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-srlg-fa-configuration-03=20
    Presenter: Oscar Gonz=E1lez de Dios=20
26   14:40 10 Title: Label Switched Path (LSP) Provisioning Performance =
Management Information Base for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) / MPLS-TE =
network=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sun-ccamp-gmpls-perf-mib-00.txt=20
    Presenter: Tom Nadeau and Weiqiang Sun=20
27   14:50 5 Title: Framework for latency and loss traffic engineering =
application=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-delay-loss-te-framework-00=20
    Presenter: Xihua Fu=20
28   14:55 5 Title: RSVP-TE extensions for latency and loss traffic =
engineering application=20
    Draft: =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00=20
    Presenter: Xihua Fu=20
Adjourn   15:00    =20

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:49 AM
To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda


	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I go to =
that link:

IETF-81 ccamp agenda
Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or =
the document has not yet been submitted.


On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:

> CCAMP,
>=20
> The draft agenda is available:
> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda
>=20
> Let us know if we missed anyone-
> Deborah and Lou
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20


From Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com  Thu Jul 14 06:58:20 2011
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To: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:54:37 -0400
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
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I see the agenda. You may want to clear your browser's cache.

Sidd


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Th=
omas Nadeau
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:19 PM
To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda


	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I go to that=
 link:

IETF-81 ccamp agenda
Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or the d=
ocument has not yet been submitted.


On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:

> CCAMP,
> 
> The draft agenda is available:
> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda
> 
> Let us know if we missed anyone-
> Deborah and Lou
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 

_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


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From tnadeau@lucidvision.com  Thu Jul 14 07:23:02 2011
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From: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:22:49 -0400
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To: Sidd Aanand <Sidd.Aanand@ecitele.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
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	No idea. Still showing up as this after restarting.   Anyways, =
ignore my situation if you all can see the agenda! 8)

	--Tom




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On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Sidd Aanand wrote:

> I see the agenda. You may want to clear your browser's cache.
>=20
> Sidd
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Thomas Nadeau
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:19 PM
> To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
>=20
>=20
> 	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I =
go to that link:
>=20
> IETF-81 ccamp agenda
> Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or =
the document has not yet been submitted.
>=20
>=20
> On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:
>=20
>> CCAMP,
>>=20
>> The draft agenda is available:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda
>>=20
>> Let us know if we missed anyone-
>> Deborah and Lou
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains =
information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI =
Telecom. If you have received this transmission in error, please inform =
us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies =
thereof.
>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail-10--513795681--

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On 7/14/11 4:22 PM, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>
> 	No idea. Still showing up as this after restarting.
exactly the same issue here...

~G

>   Anyways, ignore my situation if you all can see the agenda! 8)
>
> 	--Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Sidd Aanand wrote:
>
>> I see the agenda. You may want to clear your browser's cache.
>>
>> Sidd
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Nadeau
>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:19 PM
>> To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
>>
>>
>> 	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I go to that link:
>>
>> IETF-81 ccamp agenda
>> Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or the document has not yet been submitted.
>>
>>
>> On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:
>>
>>> CCAMP,
>>>
>>> The draft agenda is available:
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda
>>>
>>> Let us know if we missed anyone-
>>> Deborah and Lou
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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      http-equiv="Content-Type">
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    <br>
    <br>
    On 7/14/11 4:22 PM, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:88CDA5D8-3176-4402-91FD-8F4D730071DA@lucidvision.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">

	No idea. Still showing up as this after restarting.  </pre>
    </blockquote>
    exactly the same issue here... <br>
    <br>
    ~G<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:88CDA5D8-3176-4402-91FD-8F4D730071DA@lucidvision.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap=""> Anyways, ignore my situation if you all can see the agenda! 8)

	--Tom



</pre>
      <pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>






On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Sidd Aanand wrote:

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">I see the agenda. You may want to clear your browser's cache.

Sidd


-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Thomas Nadeau
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:19 PM
To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda


	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I go to that link:

IETF-81 ccamp agenda
Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or the document has not yet been submitted.


On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:

</pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre wrap="">CCAMP,

The draft agenda is available:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda">http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda</a>

Let us know if we missed anyone-
Deborah and Lou

_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>

</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <pre wrap="">
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>


This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.


</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
</pre>
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From csatarij@tanet.hu  Thu Jul 14 07:44:39 2011
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Dear all!

I am working on an MPLS-discovery project, and I would like to include OSPF-TE information in the objects. Since I didn't found any MIB definiton where Link attributes (Maximum BW, Maximum Reservable BW, Unreserved BW) reside (RFC 3630 - OSPFv2 TE), I found the draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09 Internet Draft, which would be very good to use. (Does every device uses it?)

But when I wanted to try this MIB definition in a GUI MIB Browser (iReasoning MIB Browser), I couldn't import it saying "contains unknown MIB node: tedConformance (from module null)". Is there any idea to overcome this problem?

Anyway, is it a wise idea to use an Internet Draft? If not, what would you suggest to cultivate these data?

Thanks for advice!

Greetings,
JÃ¡nos


___________________________________





From lberger@labn.net  Thu Jul 14 09:46:57 2011
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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> we may have a requirement
> to explicit select a component link (i.e., ODU2 FA) which is over ODU4
> server layer.

Xihua,
	Why would one care how the ODU2 FA is transported (ODU3 vs ODU4) in
this case?

Lou

On 7/12/2011 7:36 PM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniele,
> 
> Thank you for your clarification.
> I can catch the purpose of separate SCSIs for dissimilar hierarchies
> when they are bundled together.
> This draft states "A single ISCD TLV MAY be used for the advertisement
> of unbundled or bundled links also with different server layers."
> I think the description in this draft is accurate.
> So we could bundle 0/2/3 and 0/2/4 together and use two separate SCSIs
> to represent two hierarchies.
> What I am curious is after we build two ODU2 FA-LSPs over different
> hierarchies (i.e., server layers ODU3 and ODU4) and bundle both of ODU2
> FAs together, we can use only one SCSI to represent it.
> Based on draft-ietf-mpls-explicit-resource-control-bundle-10, when an
> ODU0 is going to over bundle link of ODU2 FA, we may have a requirement
> to explicit select a component link (i.e., ODU2 FA) which is over ODU4
> server layer. But there isn't enough information for this requirement.
> 
> Xihua Fu
> 
> 
> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
> 
> 2011-07-12 ÏÂÎç 06:25
> 
> 	
> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> ³­ËÍ
> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> Ö÷Ìâ
> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Xihua,
>  
> the case you are considering is a quite a simple scenario and there
> would be no issue in having the two hierarchies adverties into the same
> SCSI, but there are some "unlucky" cases in which bundling component
> links with dissimilar hierarchies could cause ambiguities.
> Let's try to analize one of them. Suppose to have the following
> hierarchies supported (quite similar to the one present in the -06
> version of the draft)
> Component Link#1      Component Link#2    
>         ODU0                  ODU0            
>          |                     |                  
>         ODU3                  ODU3                
>          |                     |                  
>         ODU4                  ODU4
> We said that the advertisement of intermediate layers bandwidth is
> required in order to know how many FA can be set up. In this case, the
> advertisement of both
> ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
> ODU3->ODU4
> available bandwidth is performed so to know how many ODU3 FA can be
> setup. In the case above it is possible to advertise the 2 component
> links into the same SCSI.
> On the other side, if you have to bundle the 3 component links in the
> following, there could be an ambiguity:
> Component Link#1      Component Link#2     Component Link#3
>         ODU0                  ODU0            
>          |                     |                  ODU3
>         ODU3                  ODU3                 |
>          |                     |                  ODU4
>         ODU4                  ODU4
> Merging all the component links into the same SCSI would cause this type
> of advertisement:
>  
> ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
> ODU3->ODU4
>  
> But in this case it is not possible to know how many ODU3->ODU4 are
> availalbe for ODU3 FA set up (i.e. belonging to the ODU0->ODU3->ODU4
> hierarchy) and how many simple ODU3 cannot be used for ODU0 transport
> (i.e. belonging to ODU3->ODU4 hierarchy).
>  
> This issue *does not* prevent to perform the bundling of the three
> component links and can be simply solved advertising component links #1
> and #2 into an SCSI and component link #3 in a different one (all inside
> the same ISCD).
>  
> By the way thaks a lot for the question, this clarification will be
> introduced into the next version of the draft.
>  
> BR
> Daniele
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 16.25*
> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
> Subject:* RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> Hi Daniele,
> 
> One more question.
> "
>   The ISCD includes a variable number of SCSI TLVs as described in the
>   following sections.  A single ISCD TLV MAY be used for the
>   advertisement of unbundled or bundled links also with different
>   server layers.  A different SCSI TLV MUST be used for each different
>   muxing hierarchy (muxing tree in the following examples).
> "
> There two links among A, B and C. One link #1 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU3.
> Another link #2 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU4.
>                             0/2/4                                      
>                     4/2/0
>                                     |                           B      
>                      |    
> o---------------o  X  o--------------o  X  o--------------o  X
>  o----------------o
>                          A       o--------------o  X  o--------------o  
>  C                                
>                                     |                                  
>                         |
>                              0/2/3                                      
>                    3/2/0
> 
> Although we could bundle them together, there must be two SCSIs to
> represent different hierarchy. What benefit I could see is there is just
> one block for Max LSP bandwidth, SC, ET and so on.
> 
> Another usecase is that if we create two ODU 2 FA-LSP over link #1 and
> link #2 and make them as a TE Link, we could bundle them together based
> on the current OSPF extension in this draft.
> In my opion, we could use one SCSI to represent ODU2 bundle link.
> 
> Xihua
> 
> 
> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
> 
> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 09:40
> 
> 	
> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> ³­ËÍ
> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
> Ö÷Ìâ
> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xihua,
>  
> given that the SCSI is mandatory and not optional, the info in the MAX
> LSP bandwdith fields is implicitely not enough for the path computation :-)
>  
> Thanks
> Daniele
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 15.33*
> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
> Subject:* RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> Hi Daniele,
> 
> How about adding following sentence into draft?
> 
> "If Encoding Type is G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) , information in MAX LSP
> bandwidth block is not enough for the patch computation. The SCSI must
> be used. Implementation must not rely on MAX LSP bandwidth block"
> 
> Xihua
> 
> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
> 
> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 09:18
> 
> 	
> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> ³­ËÍ
> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
> Ö÷Ìâ
> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Xihua,
> 
> in the end this message is an ISCD, so we must keep the same format and
> same values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is present and must be filled as
> defined in RFC4203 (as written in the draft). Given that RFC 4203 just
> says few words on "how to fill" that field, we just added few words to
> say it explicitely.
> What's your suggestion?
> 
> Thanks
> Daniele
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *
> From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 13.01*
> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
> Subject:* Re: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> HiDaniele,
> 
> Thank you for your clarification.
> We know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this draft.
> If it doesn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter with
> how to standardize it in this draft.
> 
> Xihua
> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
> 
> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 06:14
> 
> 	
> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
> ³­ËÍ
> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
> Ö÷Ìâ
> 	RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Xihua,
> 
> for sure RFC4204 is not correct, given that it is about LMP :-)
> 
> The draft defines a guideline on how to fill those fields. RFC 4203
> states that:
> 
> Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet fields in
> the IEEE floating point format [_IEEE_
> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE>], with priority 0 first and
> priority 7 last.  The units are bytes (not bits!) per second.
> 
> and the MAX LSP field must be filled accordingly. Given that the OTN has
> a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the "biggest"
> available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at different priorities
> can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth availabilities.
> 
> You're rigth when saying that this information is not enough for the PCE
> and the SCSI must be used.
> 
> Thanks,
> Daniele
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
> Sent:* mercoled¨¬ 6 luglio 2011 13.37*
> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
> Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> Hi Daniele,
> 
> One more comment.
> In section "4.  ISCD format extensions",  it write:
> "The MAX LSP bandwidth field is used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 <=
> Max LSP Bandwidth <= ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values are those on
> the branch of OTN switching hierarchy supported by the interface.
> E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP
> Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc.
> "
> In my understanding, there is no any standardized principle about how to
> value this unit.
> It doesn't make any sense to path computation entity. It has to rely on
> SCSI information.
> Is that right?
> 
> Xihua
> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
> ·¢¼þÈË:  ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> 
> 2011-06-27 ÏÂÎç 09:28
> 
> 	
> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
> ³­ËÍ
> 	"danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
> Ö÷Ìâ
> 	[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi CCAMPers,
> 
> As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors of the two
> competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been working
> together and a merged document has been produced.
> 
> You can find the merged ID at the following link: _
> 
> __http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.txt_
> 
> Comments and feedback are appreciated
> 
> Thanks,
> The authors
> 
> 
> *
> 
> DANIELE CECCARELLI
> System & Technology - DU IP & Broadband*
> 
> Via L.Calda, 5
> Genova, Italy
> Phone +390106002512
> Mobile +393346725750
> daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com_
> __www.ericsson.com_ _
> 
> 
> _ <http://www.ericsson.com/>
> 
> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on
> the basis of the term set out at _www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer_
> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
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From lberger@labn.net  Thu Jul 14 09:51:18 2011
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:51:10 -0700
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: Giovanni Martinelli <giomarti@cisco.com>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
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I had the same issue until my squid cache decided it was time to refresh
the page.  My guess is that the ietf site is not doing the right thing
to the http headers when the agenda page is updated.

Lou

On 7/14/2011 7:40 AM, Giovanni Martinelli wrote:
> 
> 
> On 7/14/11 4:22 PM, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
>>
>> 	No idea. Still showing up as this after restarting.  
> exactly the same issue here...
> 
> ~G
> 
>>  Anyways, ignore my situation if you all can see the agenda! 8)
>>
>> 	--Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Sidd Aanand wrote:
>>
>>> I see the agenda. You may want to clear your browser's cache.
>>>
>>> Sidd
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Nadeau
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:19 PM
>>> To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81-CCAMP Draft Agenda
>>>
>>>
>>> 	Are you sure? Or is the agenda empty?  This is what I get when I go to that link:
>>>
>>> IETF-81 ccamp agenda
>>> Sorry, no agenda available as of today. Either no meeting was held, or the document has not yet been submitted.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 14, 2011, at 9:47 AM, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI) wrote:
>>>
>>>> CCAMP,
>>>>
>>>> The draft agenda is available:
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda
>>>>
>>>> Let us know if we missed anyone-
>>>> Deborah and Lou
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>
>>> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains information which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original and all copies thereof.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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From lberger@labn.net  Thu Jul 14 10:17:11 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Greg,
	A minor point, you really are referring to the use of "multiple LSA
IDs" (which in TE is based on the instance field within the LSA ID).
The term "multiple instances" can also be interpreted to refer to
Multi-Instance OSPF, so we should avoid this opportunity for confusion...

Lou

On 7/13/2011 12:58 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
> Once again Pierre your dynamic numbers are wrong for the current WG 
> draft since your are not using OSPF-TE standard multiple instances to 
> separate dynamic from static information.  Please review OSPF-TE 
> standards, before asking for any changes associated with separating 
> dynamic and static information.  This issue was addressed very early on 
> in WSON development.
> Greg
> On 7/8/2011 9:22 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's
>>
>> Thanks for your example, which is as you said really specified.
>> We then took the opportunity to work on this example with our own solution, and to do the compilation of size.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in draft-peloso:
>>     - 1 static node attribute LSA: 108 bytes
>>     - 1 static resource description container LSA: 1004 bytes
>>     - 4 dynamic resource pool LSAs: 132 bytes each
>>    Total size: 1640 bytes
>>    Size of update: 132 bytes
>>
>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in current WG drafts:
>>     - 1 dynamic optical property LSA: 1540 bytes
>>    Total size: 1540 bytes
>>    Size of update: 1540 bytes
>>
>> The solution here are comparable regarding the overall size usage, 100 bytes at the advantage of Greg's solution.
>> Ours focuses on reducing the size of updated information, with an intrinsic mechanism to perform the updates, without ambiguity for the flooding and merges.
>> To avoid the pitfall introduced by the number of resources being defined in the resource block information, the example provided by Greg had to assign a Resource Block for each Wavelength Converter (200 in that case), then as many Resource Block IDs, and to enforce an appropriate Resource Block ID ordering that enables the usage of inclusive range for the definition of Resource Block Sets. This trick applied to other node's architecture, would have contrary effect on size. This point is being commented with others inside the annoted version of Greg's example.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> - p
>>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Greg Bernstein
>> Envoyé : mardi 5 juillet 2011 17:25
>> À : CCAMP
>> Objet : [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
>>
>> Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of issue with the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of regenerators or wavelength converters are used in an optical system of some sort.  This is not true. The current WSON related WG drafts provide mechanisms commonly used in GMPLS routing and signaling. However these mechanisms do not furnish a "unique representation" of a given problem and never have. It is up to the user of the GMPLS routing or signaling protocol to choose the most appropriate mechanism, e.g., "range" or "list" to achieve an efficient encoding. Note that this is true of many standards beyond GMPLS.
>>
>> In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource pool connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or more different types of wavelength converters in this case) can be efficiently encoded. We also demonstrate that this encoding is minimalistic.  The analysis proceeds from a high level description of the system including a block diagram of system structure, and includes descriptions of the pertinent sub-TLVs used from the existing WSON WG documents, and their scaling properties.  As such one can see that the current WSON WG drafts excel in their ability to handle this case without further modification.l
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> --
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>>
> 
> 

From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Fri Jul 15 00:54:23 2011
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From giomarti@cisco.com  Fri Jul 15 03:07:24 2011
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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:06:24 +0200
From: Giovanni Martinelli <giomarti@cisco.com>
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Subject: [CCAMP] WSON and Optical Interface Class concept
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Hi CCAMP,

for the next ietf mtg submitted this draft:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-martinelli-wson-interface-class-00

We would like to trigger discussion on how to solve the signal 
compatibility problem for WSON. RFC6163 define some compatibility 
parameters while draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-11 and 
draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-11 define them explicitly. The encoding 
is then reused in several wson protocol extension (e.g. OSPF-TE, 
RSVP-TE, PCEP).

The current encoding make room for either ITU standard values and 
proprietary values. We generally agree that information reported there 
*but*, since technology evolve (e.g. 40/100G, new modulation formats, 
... ), we likely expect changes in encoded values (e.g. some proprietary 
formats may become std).

The basic idea is to replace the explicit encoding by a number called 
optical interface class and use it as a pointer to access (somewhere) 
the information related to optical interface. Benefits:
- first and most important: keep wson protocol evolution independent 
from some technology specific details
- simplify compatibility check: now comparing two number instead of 
guessing on several parameters.
- simplified fixed-length encoding.

Status: the proposal is still a rough cut with some point to refine but 
if anyone like it, we'll be happy to share any follow up.

Cheers
Giovanni



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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Cyril, see comments below.
Greg
On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
>
> There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block IDs
> with 16 bits
> With few motivation and without any definition in the WG-drafts if they
> are stable or not.
--> This allows for 65,536 resources per node.  I'm not sure what you 
mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources is 
provisioned  by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively 
"static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal.
> The only statement I have seen is :
> "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is a 16
> bit integer."
>
> I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs assignments in
> nodes.
Which ID's in nodes?  Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4, IPv6 
and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards.
> If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in
> general constraint can be used.
--> The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It works 
with "Link Sets".
>   Your opinion is that it should be a
> separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go in
> the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
> connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I would be
> interested to hear other people opinions.
>
> Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids, this
> 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
> 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface) and I
> did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may have
> missed something, Could you indicate :
>    - should those ID be stable or not?
--> What do you mean by stable?
>    - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
--> Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty.
>    - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?
--> Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of.
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of ext Greg Bernstein
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe
>> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>>
>> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
>>
>> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with  "wson
>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by the
>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
>> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the table.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>>>
>>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
> proposed
>>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
> read
>> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this
>> one deals with change 2:
>>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
>> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external links
>> and the resource pools.
>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity (for
>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
> the
>>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current
>>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
>>> LSAs)
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>>> -snip-
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Fri Jul 15 07:01:59 2011
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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:01:46 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Thanks Lou. RFC3630 has the "Instance" field. So was using the term 
"multiple instance" in this case. Rather than multiple OSPF instances.
Greg
On 7/14/2011 10:17 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
> Greg,
> 	A minor point, you really are referring to the use of "multiple LSA
> IDs" (which in TE is based on the instance field within the LSA ID).
> The term "multiple instances" can also be interpreted to refer to
> Multi-Instance OSPF, so we should avoid this opportunity for confusion...
>
> Lou
>
> On 7/13/2011 12:58 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
>> Once again Pierre your dynamic numbers are wrong for the current WG
>> draft since your are not using OSPF-TE standard multiple instances to
>> separate dynamic from static information.  Please review OSPF-TE
>> standards, before asking for any changes associated with separating
>> dynamic and static information.  This issue was addressed very early on
>> in WSON development.
>> Greg
>> On 7/8/2011 9:22 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's
>>>
>>> Thanks for your example, which is as you said really specified.
>>> We then took the opportunity to work on this example with our own solution, and to do the compilation of size.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in draft-peloso:
>>>      - 1 static node attribute LSA: 108 bytes
>>>      - 1 static resource description container LSA: 1004 bytes
>>>      - 4 dynamic resource pool LSAs: 132 bytes each
>>>     Total size: 1640 bytes
>>>     Size of update: 132 bytes
>>>
>>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in current WG drafts:
>>>      - 1 dynamic optical property LSA: 1540 bytes
>>>     Total size: 1540 bytes
>>>     Size of update: 1540 bytes
>>>
>>> The solution here are comparable regarding the overall size usage, 100 bytes at the advantage of Greg's solution.
>>> Ours focuses on reducing the size of updated information, with an intrinsic mechanism to perform the updates, without ambiguity for the flooding and merges.
>>> To avoid the pitfall introduced by the number of resources being defined in the resource block information, the example provided by Greg had to assign a Resource Block for each Wavelength Converter (200 in that case), then as many Resource Block IDs, and to enforce an appropriate Resource Block ID ordering that enables the usage of inclusive range for the definition of Resource Block Sets. This trick applied to other node's architecture, would have contrary effect on size. This point is being commented with others inside the annoted version of Greg's example.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> - p
>>>
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Greg Bernstein
>>> Envoyé : mardi 5 juillet 2011 17:25
>>> À : CCAMP
>>> Objet : [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
>>>
>>> Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of issue with the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of regenerators or wavelength converters are used in an optical system of some sort.  This is not true. The current WSON related WG drafts provide mechanisms commonly used in GMPLS routing and signaling. However these mechanisms do not furnish a "unique representation" of a given problem and never have. It is up to the user of the GMPLS routing or signaling protocol to choose the most appropriate mechanism, e.g., "range" or "list" to achieve an efficient encoding. Note that this is true of many standards beyond GMPLS.
>>>
>>> In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource pool connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or more different types of wavelength converters in this case) can be efficiently encoded. We also demonstrate that this encoding is minimalistic.  The analysis proceeds from a high level description of the system including a block diagram of system structure, and includes descriptions of the pertinent sub-TLVs used from the existing WSON WG documents, and their scaling properties.  As such one can see that the current WSON WG drafts excel in their ability to handle this case without further modification.l
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> --
>>> ===================================================
>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From cyril.margaria@nsn.com  Fri Jul 15 07:32:30 2011
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Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com><4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com><4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com><4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694D325@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1DFB6D.6040601@grotto-networking.co! m> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2029BA9CF@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.n! ! et> <4E 2046FB.5050201@grotto-networking.com>
From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: "ext Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Greg,=20
Please see clarification inline


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:56 PM
> To: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe
> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>=20
> Hi Cyril, see comments below.
> Greg
> On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> >
> > There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block
> IDs
> > with 16 bits With few motivation and without any definition in the
> > WG-drafts if they are stable or not.
> --> This allows for 65,536 resources per node.  I'm not sure what you
> mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources
> is provisioned  by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively
> "static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal.

I mean stable across control plane restart and configuration change.


> > The only statement I have seen is :
> > "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is
a
> > 16 bit integer."
> >
> > I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs
assignments
> > in nodes.
> Which ID's in nodes?  Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4,
> IPv6 and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards.

I mean unnumbered interface IDs. Node usually assign interface ids to
their
 different ports (being internal or external), this assignment tend to
be also=20
 meaningful for the management system and are usually based on 32 bit
ids.


> > If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in general
> > constraint can be used.
> --> The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It
works
> with "Link Sets".

I will rephrase then :=20
 Using a 32 bit unnumbered interface identifiers would allow the=20
 connectivity matrix as defined in general constraint to be used.


> >   Your opinion is that it should be a
> > separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go
> > in the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
> > connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I
would
> > be interested to hear other people opinions.
> >
> > Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids,
> > this
> > 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
> > 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface)
and
> > I did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may
> > have missed something, Could you indicate :
> >    - should those ID be stable or not?
> --> What do you mean by stable?
--> stable across control plane restart and configuration change (adding
new HW)

> >    - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
> --> Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty.
--> This has the inconvenient to add another assignment space in the
node,=20
using unnumbered interface id is far more convenient and generic : if
you=20
want also to model the 3R construct as a multi-layer (ML) (OCH/ODU)
matrix, then=20
you will tend to address the 3R using unnumbered (or numbered) interface
id.
In general once you have an heuristic to compute a connectivity matrix
in general=20
 using another space for some element is not convenient.


> >    - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?
> --> Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of.
Its not convenient if you go in the direction of ML representation
the oeo ingress/egress port  might become a link.=20

BR

> >
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >> Behalf Of ext Greg Bernstein
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
> >> To: ccamp@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to
> describe
> >> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
> >>
> >> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
> >>
> >> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with
"wson
> >> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by
> the
> >> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
> >> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
> >> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
> >> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
> >> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the
> table.
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >> Greg
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> >>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
> >>>
> >>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
> > proposed
> >>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
> > read
> >> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads,
> >> this one deals with change 2:
> >>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
> >> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
> >> links and the resource pools.
> >>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity
(for
> >>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
> > the
> >>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current
> >>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
> >>> LSAs)
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Pierre
> >>>
> >>> [SNIP]
> >>>
> >>>> -snip-
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> >> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CCAMP mailing list
> >> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
>=20
>=20
> --
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>=20


From acee.lindem@ericsson.com  Fri Jul 15 07:57:08 2011
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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:56:50 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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It still is very peculiar to refer to this as a multi-instance LSA since th=
e instance field is only a portion of the opaque LSA Identifier. I agree wi=
th Lou that this terminology should be avoided. Also, you'll note that Lou =
is the author of RFC 5250. It would be more appropriate to refer to these a=
s "multiple instances of the TE LSA" rather than a "Multi-instance LSA".=20

On Jul 15, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Greg Bernstein wrote:

> Thanks Lou. RFC3630 has the "Instance" field. So was using the term=20
> "multiple instance" in this case. Rather than multiple OSPF instances.
> Greg
> On 7/14/2011 10:17 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> Greg,
>> 	A minor point, you really are referring to the use of "multiple LSA
>> IDs" (which in TE is based on the instance field within the LSA ID).
>> The term "multiple instances" can also be interpreted to refer to
>> Multi-Instance OSPF, so we should avoid this opportunity for confusion..=
.
>>=20
>> Lou
>>=20
>> On 7/13/2011 12:58 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
>>> Once again Pierre your dynamic numbers are wrong for the current WG
>>> draft since your are not using OSPF-TE standard multiple instances to
>>> separate dynamic from static information.  Please review OSPF-TE
>>> standards, before asking for any changes associated with separating
>>> dynamic and static information.  This issue was addressed very early on
>>> in WSON development.
>>> Greg
>>> On 7/8/2011 9:22 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks for your example, which is as you said really specified.
>>>> We then took the opportunity to work on this example with our own solu=
tion, and to do the compilation of size.
>>>>=20
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in draft-peloso:
>>>>     - 1 static node attribute LSA: 108 bytes
>>>>     - 1 static resource description container LSA: 1004 bytes
>>>>     - 4 dynamic resource pool LSAs: 132 bytes each
>>>>    Total size: 1640 bytes
>>>>    Size of update: 132 bytes
>>>>=20
>>>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in current WG dr=
afts:
>>>>     - 1 dynamic optical property LSA: 1540 bytes
>>>>    Total size: 1540 bytes
>>>>    Size of update: 1540 bytes
>>>>=20
>>>> The solution here are comparable regarding the overall size usage, 100=
 bytes at the advantage of Greg's solution.
>>>> Ours focuses on reducing the size of updated information, with an intr=
insic mechanism to perform the updates, without ambiguity for the flooding =
and merges.
>>>> To avoid the pitfall introduced by the number of resources being defin=
ed in the resource block information, the example provided by Greg had to a=
ssign a Resource Block for each Wavelength Converter (200 in that case), th=
en as many Resource Block IDs, and to enforce an appropriate Resource Block=
 ID ordering that enables the usage of inclusive range for the definition o=
f Resource Block Sets. This trick applied to other node's architecture, wou=
ld have contrary effect on size. This point is being commented with others =
inside the annoted version of Greg's example.
>>>>=20
>>>> Regards,
>>>>=20
>>>> - p
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part=
 de Greg Bernstein
>>>> Envoy=E9 : mardi 5 juillet 2011 17:25
>>>> =C0 : CCAMP
>>>> Objet : [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerato=
rs
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of is=
sue with the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of regenerators or =
wavelength converters are used in an optical system of some sort.  This is =
not true. The current WSON related WG drafts provide mechanisms commonly us=
ed in GMPLS routing and signaling. However these mechanisms do not furnish =
a "unique representation" of a given problem and never have. It is up to th=
e user of the GMPLS routing or signaling protocol to choose the most approp=
riate mechanism, e.g., "range" or "list" to achieve an efficient encoding. =
Note that this is true of many standards beyond GMPLS.
>>>>=20
>>>> In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource=
 pool connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or more =
different types of wavelength converters in this case) can be efficiently e=
ncoded. We also demonstrate that this encoding is minimalistic.  The analys=
is proceeds from a high level description of the system including a block d=
iagram of system structure, and includes descriptions of the pertinent sub-=
TLVs used from the existing WSON WG documents, and their scaling properties=
.  As such one can see that the current WSON WG drafts excel in their abili=
ty to handle this case without further modification.l
>>>>=20
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>=20
>>>> Greg
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Daniele,
	Perhaps I misunderstood Xihua.  I thought the case he was discussing
already had the ODU2 FAs established (i.e., underlying allocation has
already taken place.)

Lou

On 7/15/2011 12:54 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> Xihua, Lou,
> 
> For sure this is not one of the key requirements that would prevent the network from correctly working, but the capability of being able to choose the server layer might be an attractive feature. If I were an operator and I had to set up a 10Gb LSP (i.e. ODU2) I would prefer to use a 40Gb lambda (ODU3/OTU3) rather than a 100Gb one (ODU4/OTU4), so that I would be able to accept a future connection request of 100Gbps through the ODU4 link.
> This could be achieved in two ways:
> 1. Explicitly choosing the component link via the signaling
> 2. Having an "algorithm" on the intermediates nodes so that the choice of the component link is local but "starts" from the smallest available server.
> 
> I don't know if this requirement needs to be added or not. Your opinion?
> 
> BR
> Daniele
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] 
> Sent: gioved¨¬ 14 luglio 2011 18.27
> To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
>> we may have a requirement
>> to explicit select a component link (i.e., ODU2 FA) which is over ODU4 
>> server layer.
> 
> Xihua,
> 	Why would one care how the ODU2 FA is transported (ODU3 vs ODU4) in this case?
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 7/12/2011 7:36 PM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
>>
>> Hi Daniele,
>>
>> Thank you for your clarification.
>> I can catch the purpose of separate SCSIs for dissimilar hierarchies 
>> when they are bundled together.
>> This draft states "A single ISCD TLV MAY be used for the advertisement 
>> of unbundled or bundled links also with different server layers."
>> I think the description in this draft is accurate.
>> So we could bundle 0/2/3 and 0/2/4 together and use two separate SCSIs 
>> to represent two hierarchies.
>> What I am curious is after we build two ODU2 FA-LSPs over different 
>> hierarchies (i.e., server layers ODU3 and ODU4) and bundle both of 
>> ODU2 FAs together, we can use only one SCSI to represent it.
>> Based on draft-ietf-mpls-explicit-resource-control-bundle-10, when an 
>> ODU0 is going to over bundle link of ODU2 FA, we may have a 
>> requirement to explicit select a component link (i.e., ODU2 FA) which 
>> is over ODU4 server layer. But there isn't enough information for this requirement.
>>
>> Xihua Fu
>>
>>
>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>
>> 2011-07-12 ÏÂÎç 06:25
>>
>> 	
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>> ³­ËÍ
>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'"
>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Fatai Zhang 
>> <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> Ö÷Ìâ
>> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>> 	
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Xihua,
>>  
>> the case you are considering is a quite a simple scenario and there 
>> would be no issue in having the two hierarchies adverties into the 
>> same SCSI, but there are some "unlucky" cases in which bundling 
>> component links with dissimilar hierarchies could cause ambiguities.
>> Let's try to analize one of them. Suppose to have the following 
>> hierarchies supported (quite similar to the one present in the -06 
>> version of the draft)
>> Component Link#1      Component Link#2    
>>         ODU0                  ODU0            
>>          |                     |                  
>>         ODU3                  ODU3                
>>          |                     |                  
>>         ODU4                  ODU4
>> We said that the advertisement of intermediate layers bandwidth is 
>> required in order to know how many FA can be set up. In this case, the 
>> advertisement of both
>> ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
>> ODU3->ODU4
>> available bandwidth is performed so to know how many ODU3 FA can be 
>> setup. In the case above it is possible to advertise the 2 component 
>> links into the same SCSI.
>> On the other side, if you have to bundle the 3 component links in the 
>> following, there could be an ambiguity:
>> Component Link#1      Component Link#2     Component Link#3
>>         ODU0                  ODU0            
>>          |                     |                  ODU3
>>         ODU3                  ODU3                 |
>>          |                     |                  ODU4
>>         ODU4                  ODU4
>> Merging all the component links into the same SCSI would cause this 
>> type of advertisement:
>>  
>> ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
>> ODU3->ODU4
>>  
>> But in this case it is not possible to know how many ODU3->ODU4 are 
>> availalbe for ODU3 FA set up (i.e. belonging to the ODU0->ODU3->ODU4
>> hierarchy) and how many simple ODU3 cannot be used for ODU0 transport 
>> (i.e. belonging to ODU3->ODU4 hierarchy).
>>  
>> This issue *does not* prevent to perform the bundling of the three 
>> component links and can be simply solved advertising component links 
>> #1 and #2 into an SCSI and component link #3 in a different one (all 
>> inside the same ISCD).
>>  
>> By the way thaks a lot for the question, this clarification will be 
>> introduced into the next version of the draft.
>>  
>> BR
>> Daniele
>>  
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 16.25*
>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>> Subject:* RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>> Hi Daniele,
>>
>> One more question.
>> "
>>   The ISCD includes a variable number of SCSI TLVs as described in the
>>   following sections.  A single ISCD TLV MAY be used for the
>>   advertisement of unbundled or bundled links also with different
>>   server layers.  A different SCSI TLV MUST be used for each different
>>   muxing hierarchy (muxing tree in the following examples).
>> "
>> There two links among A, B and C. One link #1 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU3.
>> Another link #2 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU4.
>>                             0/2/4                                      
>>                     4/2/0
>>                                     |                           B      
>>                      |    
>> o---------------o  X  o--------------o  X  o--------------o  X  
>> o----------------o
>>                          A       o--------------o  X  o--------------o  
>>  C                                
>>                                     |                                  
>>                         |
>>                              0/2/3                                      
>>                    3/2/0
>>
>> Although we could bundle them together, there must be two SCSIs to 
>> represent different hierarchy. What benefit I could see is there is 
>> just one block for Max LSP bandwidth, SC, ET and so on.
>>
>> Another usecase is that if we create two ODU 2 FA-LSP over link #1 and 
>> link #2 and make them as a TE Link, we could bundle them together 
>> based on the current OSPF extension in this draft.
>> In my opion, we could use one SCSI to represent ODU2 bundle link.
>>
>> Xihua
>>
>>
>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>
>> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 09:40
>>
>> 	
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>> ³­ËÍ
>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>> Ö÷Ìâ
>> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>>
>> 	
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Xihua,
>>  
>> given that the SCSI is mandatory and not optional, the info in the MAX 
>> LSP bandwdith fields is implicitely not enough for the path 
>> computation :-)
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Daniele
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 15.33*
>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>> Subject:* RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>> Hi Daniele,
>>
>> How about adding following sentence into draft?
>>
>> "If Encoding Type is G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) , information in MAX 
>> LSP bandwidth block is not enough for the patch computation. The SCSI 
>> must be used. Implementation must not rely on MAX LSP bandwidth block"
>>
>> Xihua
>>
>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>
>> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 09:18
>>
>> 	
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>> ³­ËÍ
>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>> Ö÷Ìâ
>> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Xihua,
>>
>> in the end this message is an ISCD, so we must keep the same format 
>> and same values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is present and must be filled 
>> as defined in RFC4203 (as written in the draft). Given that RFC 4203 
>> just says few words on "how to fill" that field, we just added few 
>> words to say it explicitely.
>> What's your suggestion?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Daniele
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *
>> From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 13.01*
>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>> Subject:* Re: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>> HiDaniele,
>>
>> Thank you for your clarification.
>> We know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this draft.
>> If it doesn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter 
>> with how to standardize it in this draft.
>>
>> Xihua
>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>
>> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 06:14
>>
>> 	
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>> ³­ËÍ
>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>> Ö÷Ìâ
>> 	RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Xihua,
>>
>> for sure RFC4204 is not correct, given that it is about LMP :-)
>>
>> The draft defines a guideline on how to fill those fields. RFC 4203 
>> states that:
>>
>> Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet fields in 
>> the IEEE floating point format [_IEEE_ 
>> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE>], with priority 0 first 
>> and priority 7 last.  The units are bytes (not bits!) per second.
>>
>> and the MAX LSP field must be filled accordingly. Given that the OTN 
>> has a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the "biggest"
>> available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at different priorities 
>> can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth availabilities.
>>
>> You're rigth when saying that this information is not enough for the 
>> PCE and the SCSI must be used.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Daniele
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>> Sent:* mercoled¨¬ 6 luglio 2011 13.37*
>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>> Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>> Hi Daniele,
>>
>> One more comment.
>> In section "4.  ISCD format extensions",  it write:
>> "The MAX LSP bandwidth field is used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 <= 
>> Max LSP Bandwidth <= ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values are those on 
>> the branch of OTN switching hierarchy supported by the interface.
>> E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP 
>> Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc.
>> "
>> In my understanding, there is no any standardized principle about how 
>> to value this unit.
>> It doesn't make any sense to path computation entity. It has to rely 
>> on SCSI information.
>> Is that right?
>>
>> Xihua
>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>> ·¢¼þÈË:  ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>
>> 2011-06-27 ÏÂÎç 09:28
>>
>> 	
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> ³­ËÍ
>> 	"danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>> Ö÷Ìâ
>> 	[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 	
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi CCAMPers,
>>
>> As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors of the two 
>> competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been 
>> working together and a merged document has been produced.
>>
>> You can find the merged ID at the following link: _
>>
>> __http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.t
>> xt_
>>
>> Comments and feedback are appreciated
>>
>> Thanks,
>> The authors
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> DANIELE CECCARELLI
>> System & Technology - DU IP & Broadband*
>>
>> Via L.Calda, 5
>> Genova, Italy
>> Phone +390106002512
>> Mobile +393346725750
>> daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com_
>> __www.ericsson.com_ _
>>
>>
>> _ <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>
>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on 
>> the basis of the term set out at _www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer_
>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Fri Jul 15 13:33:36 2011
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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:33:11 -0700
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Cyril, the conversation below seems focused on relatively obscure 
details.
A resource block is not a link.  Sixteen bits versus 32 bits for a 
resource block id saves space.
The issue of "stability across control plane restart and configuration 
change" is not particular to resource block IDs, nor to WSON extensions 
of GMPLS. GMPLS link IDs can be changed.
Is there an actual problem you are trying to solve? If so, please state 
it in a succinct and clear fashion then we can all solve it.

Regards
Greg B.
On 7/15/2011 7:32 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> Please see clarification inline
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:56 PM
>> To: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe
>> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>>
>> Hi Cyril, see comments below.
>> Greg
>> On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>> There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block
>> IDs
>>> with 16 bits With few motivation and without any definition in the
>>> WG-drafts if they are stable or not.
>> -->  This allows for 65,536 resources per node.  I'm not sure what you
>> mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources
>> is provisioned  by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively
>> "static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal.
> I mean stable across control plane restart and configuration change.
>
>
>>> The only statement I have seen is :
>>> "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is
> a
>>> 16 bit integer."
>>>
>>> I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs
> assignments
>>> in nodes.
>> Which ID's in nodes?  Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4,
>> IPv6 and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards.
> I mean unnumbered interface IDs. Node usually assign interface ids to
> their
>   different ports (being internal or external), this assignment tend to
> be also
>   meaningful for the management system and are usually based on 32 bit
> ids.
>
>
>>> If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in general
>>> constraint can be used.
>> -->  The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It
> works
>> with "Link Sets".
> I will rephrase then :
>   Using a 32 bit unnumbered interface identifiers would allow the
>   connectivity matrix as defined in general constraint to be used.
>
>
>>>    Your opinion is that it should be a
>>> separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go
>>> in the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
>>> connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I
> would
>>> be interested to hear other people opinions.
>>>
>>> Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids,
>>> this
>>> 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
>>> 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface)
> and
>>> I did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may
>>> have missed something, Could you indicate :
>>>     - should those ID be stable or not?
>> -->  What do you mean by stable?
> -->  stable across control plane restart and configuration change (adding
> new HW)
>
>>>     - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
>> -->  Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty.
> -->  This has the inconvenient to add another assignment space in the
> node,
> using unnumbered interface id is far more convenient and generic : if
> you
> want also to model the 3R construct as a multi-layer (ML) (OCH/ODU)
> matrix, then
> you will tend to address the 3R using unnumbered (or numbered) interface
> id.
> In general once you have an heuristic to compute a connectivity matrix
> in general
>   using another space for some element is not convenient.
>
>
>>>     - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?
>> -->  Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of.
> Its not convenient if you go in the direction of ML representation
> the oeo ingress/egress port  might become a link.
>
> BR
>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of ext Greg Bernstein
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
>>>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to
>> describe
>>>> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>>>>
>>>> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
>>>>
>>>> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with
> "wson
>>>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by
>> the
>>>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
>>>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
>>>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
>>>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
>>>> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the
>> table.
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>>>>>
>>>>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
>>> proposed
>>>>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
>>> read
>>>> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads,
>>>> this one deals with change 2:
>>>>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
>>>> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
>>>> links and the resource pools.
>>>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity
> (for
>>>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
>>> the
>>>>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current
>>>>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
>>>>> LSAs)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>
>>>>> [SNIP]
>>>>>
>>>>>> -snip-
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ===================================================
>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>> --
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Fri Jul 15 13:44:03 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
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Thanks Acee. From now on we will refer to this technique as "multiple 
instances of the TE LSA originated from single system".
Note that the current WSON encoding is efficient and allows information 
to be broken down into units of information so that when using the 
"multiple instances of a TE LSA originated from a single system" 
mechanism we have no problem keeping OSPF packet small.
When we first started WSON work we considered three mechanisms to 
separate relatively static from relatively dynamic information:
(a) Get a new TE LSA types for static versus dynamic information
(b) Get new top level TLVs for static versus dynamic information
(c) Use existing "multiple instances of a TE LSA originated from a 
single system" mechanism.

We went with (c) a couple years ago since it was the recommended 
approach. Please let us know if this has changed.

Greg
On 7/15/2011 7:56 AM, Acee Lindem wrote:
> It still is very peculiar to refer to this as a multi-instance LSA since the instance field is only a portion of the opaque LSA Identifier. I agree with Lou that this terminology should be avoided. Also, you'll note that Lou is the author of RFC 5250. It would be more appropriate to refer to these as "multiple instances of the TE LSA" rather than a "Multi-instance LSA".
>
> On Jul 15, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
>
>> Thanks Lou. RFC3630 has the "Instance" field. So was using the term
>> "multiple instance" in this case. Rather than multiple OSPF instances.
>> Greg
>> On 7/14/2011 10:17 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>>> Greg,
>>> 	A minor point, you really are referring to the use of "multiple LSA
>>> IDs" (which in TE is based on the instance field within the LSA ID).
>>> The term "multiple instances" can also be interpreted to refer to
>>> Multi-Instance OSPF, so we should avoid this opportunity for confusion...
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>> On 7/13/2011 12:58 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
>>>> Once again Pierre your dynamic numbers are wrong for the current WG
>>>> draft since your are not using OSPF-TE standard multiple instances to
>>>> separate dynamic from static information.  Please review OSPF-TE
>>>> standards, before asking for any changes associated with separating
>>>> dynamic and static information.  This issue was addressed very early on
>>>> in WSON development.
>>>> Greg
>>>> On 7/8/2011 9:22 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your example, which is as you said really specified.
>>>>> We then took the opportunity to work on this example with our own solution, and to do the compilation of size.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in draft-peloso:
>>>>>      - 1 static node attribute LSA: 108 bytes
>>>>>      - 1 static resource description container LSA: 1004 bytes
>>>>>      - 4 dynamic resource pool LSAs: 132 bytes each
>>>>>     Total size: 1640 bytes
>>>>>     Size of update: 132 bytes
>>>>>
>>>>> Summary of information flooded with solution depicted in current WG drafts:
>>>>>      - 1 dynamic optical property LSA: 1540 bytes
>>>>>     Total size: 1540 bytes
>>>>>     Size of update: 1540 bytes
>>>>>
>>>>> The solution here are comparable regarding the overall size usage, 100 bytes at the advantage of Greg's solution.
>>>>> Ours focuses on reducing the size of updated information, with an intrinsic mechanism to perform the updates, without ambiguity for the flooding and merges.
>>>>> To avoid the pitfall introduced by the number of resources being defined in the resource block information, the example provided by Greg had to assign a Resource Block for each Wavelength Converter (200 in that case), then as many Resource Block IDs, and to enforce an appropriate Resource Block ID ordering that enables the usage of inclusive range for the definition of Resource Block Sets. This trick applied to other node's architecture, would have contrary effect on size. This point is being commented with others inside the annoted version of Greg's example.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> - p
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Greg Bernstein
>>>>> Envoyé : mardi 5 juillet 2011 17:25
>>>>> À : CCAMP
>>>>> Objet : [CCAMP] Current WSON WG encoding with many types of regenerators
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi CCAMPers in Peloso-03 it was claimed that there was some type of issue with the current WG WSON drafts when multiple types of regenerators or wavelength converters are used in an optical system of some sort.  This is not true. The current WSON related WG drafts provide mechanisms commonly used in GMPLS routing and signaling. However these mechanisms do not furnish a "unique representation" of a given problem and never have. It is up to the user of the GMPLS routing or signaling protocol to choose the most appropriate mechanism, e.g., "range" or "list" to achieve an efficient encoding. Note that this is true of many standards beyond GMPLS.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the enclosed note we show how a degree 4 optical node with resource pool connectivity constraints and multiple types of resources (10 or more different types of wavelength converters in this case) can be efficiently encoded. We also demonstrate that this encoding is minimalistic.  The analysis proceeds from a high level description of the system including a block diagram of system structure, and includes descriptions of the pertinent sub-TLVs used from the existing WSON WG documents, and their scaling properties.  As such one can see that the current WSON WG drafts excel in their ability to handle this case without further modification.l
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ===================================================
>>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Mon Jul 18 03:27:36 2011
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:27:28 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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From csatarij@tanet.hu  Mon Jul 18 06:28:46 2011
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:28:42 +0200
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Still no idea? :(

CsatÃ¡ri JÃ¡nos <csatarij@tanet.hu> Ã­rta :

> Dear all!
> 
> I am working on an MPLS-discovery project, and I would like to include OSPF-TE information in the objects. Since I didn't found any MIB definiton where Link attributes (Maximum BW, Maximum Reservable BW, Unreserved BW) reside (RFC 3630 - OSPFv2 TE), I found the draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09 Internet Draft, which would be very good to use. (Does every device uses it?)
> 
> But when I wanted to try this MIB definition in a GUI MIB Browser (iReasoning MIB Browser), I couldn't import it saying "contains unknown MIB node: tedConformance (from module null)". Is there any idea to overcome this problem?
> 
> Anyway, is it a wise idea to use an Internet Draft? If not, what would you suggest to cultivate these data?
> 
> Thanks for advice!
> 
> Greetings,
> JÃ¡nos
> 
> 
> ___________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp



___________________________________





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Hi Greg.

If there are "obscure details" in those drafts, discussing is an 
efficient way to bring them into the light and improve the content. I 
expect IETF documents to provide clear details that I can deploy. For 
instance, if ID stability is not mentioned, then I do not know why I 
would take it for granted.

Besides, your argument reads odd to me. Unnumbered interface IDs are 
32-bit long, while I guess nobody ever expected to make full use of a 
node-local ID space as large as IPv4. Size matters to implementers, 
especially as we are not building new protocols but extending existing 
ones. If 16-bit ID is more specific than a generic 32-bit ID, then we 
have "size vs. implementation efficiency"; since I care about size 
mainly for an efficiency purpose, then I believe a 32-bit length 
deserves to be considered.

Any opinion from implementers?

Regards,

Julien


Le 15/07/2011 22:33, Greg Bernstein a écrit :
> Hi Cyril, the conversation below seems focused on relatively obscure 
> details.
> A resource block is not a link.  Sixteen bits versus 32 bits for a 
> resource block id saves space.
> The issue of "stability across control plane restart and configuration 
> change" is not particular to resource block IDs, nor to WSON 
> extensions of GMPLS. GMPLS link IDs can be changed.
> Is there an actual problem you are trying to solve? If so, please 
> state it in a succinct and clear fashion then we can all solve it.
>
> Regards
> Greg B.
> On 7/15/2011 7:32 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>> Please see clarification inline
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ext Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]
>>>
>>> Hi Cyril, see comments below.
>>> Greg
>>> On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block
>>> IDs
>>>> with 16 bits With few motivation and without any definition in the
>>>> WG-drafts if they are stable or not.
>>> -->  This allows for 65,536 resources per node.  I'm not sure what you
>>> mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources
>>> is provisioned  by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively
>>> "static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal.
>> I mean stable across control plane restart and configuration change.
>>
>>
>>>> The only statement I have seen is :
>>>> "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is
>> a
>>>> 16 bit integer."
>>>>
>>>> I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs
>> assignments
>>>> in nodes.
>>> Which ID's in nodes?  Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4,
>>> IPv6 and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards.
>> I mean unnumbered interface IDs. Node usually assign interface ids to
>> their
>>   different ports (being internal or external), this assignment tend to
>> be also
>>   meaningful for the management system and are usually based on 32 bit
>> ids.
>>
>>
>>>> If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in general
>>>> constraint can be used.
>>> -->  The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It
>> works
>>> with "Link Sets".
>> I will rephrase then :
>>   Using a 32 bit unnumbered interface identifiers would allow the
>>   connectivity matrix as defined in general constraint to be used.
>>
>>
>>>>    Your opinion is that it should be a
>>>> separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go
>>>> in the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
>>>> connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I
>> would
>>>> be interested to hear other people opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids,
>>>> this
>>>> 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
>>>> 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface)
>> and
>>>> I did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may
>>>> have missed something, Could you indicate :
>>>>     - should those ID be stable or not?
>>> -->  What do you mean by stable?
>> -->  stable across control plane restart and configuration change 
>> (adding
>> new HW)
>>
>>>>     - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
>>> -->  Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty.
>> -->  This has the inconvenient to add another assignment space in the
>> node,
>> using unnumbered interface id is far more convenient and generic : if
>> you
>> want also to model the 3R construct as a multi-layer (ML) (OCH/ODU)
>> matrix, then
>> you will tend to address the 3R using unnumbered (or numbered) interface
>> id.
>> In general once you have an heuristic to compute a connectivity matrix
>> in general
>>   using another space for some element is not convenient.
>>
>>
>>>>     - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?
>>> -->  Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of.
>> Its not convenient if you go in the direction of ML representation
>> the oeo ingress/egress port  might become a link.
>>
>> BR
>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of ext Greg Bernstein
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
>>>>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to
>>> describe
>>>>> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
>>>>>
>>>>> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with
>> "wson
>>>>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by
>>> the
>>>>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
>>>>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
>>>>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
>>>>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
>>>>> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the
>>> table.
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
>>>> proposed
>>>>>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
>>>> read
>>>>> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads,
>>>>> this one deals with change 2:
>>>>>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
>>>>> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
>>>>> links and the resource pools.
>>>>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity
>> (for
>>>>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
>>>> the
>>>>>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current
>>>>>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
>>>>>> LSAs)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [SNIP]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -snip-
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> ===================================================
>>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ===================================================
>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Mon Jul 18 07:39:00 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt
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Hi Pierre and CCAMPers, the analysis in Appendix A of the Peloso draft 
is still incorrect and does not seem based on the current WSON WG 
encoding draft 
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/ 
published 3/14/2011, and continues to misrepresent the capabilities of 
the current WSON WG draft.  An example of how the situation mentioned in 
Appendix A of Peloso-04 can be efficiently encoded with the current WG 
was given in an e-mail to the CCAMP list on 7/5/2011.

Best Regards

Greg B.
On 7/11/2011 9:03 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi CCAMPer's,
>
> Following the previous exchanges,
> please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04
>
> Best regards to all,
>
> Pierre
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



--------------080101080809030504040301
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Hi Pierre and CCAMPers, the analysis in Appendix A of the Peloso
    draft is still incorrect and does not seem based on the current WSON
    WG encoding draft <a
      href="http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/</a>
    published 3/14/2011, and continues to misrepresent the capabilities
    of the current WSON WG draft.&nbsp; An example of how the situation
    mentioned in Appendix A of Peloso-04 can be efficiently encoded with
    the current WG was given in an e-mail to the CCAMP list on 7/5/2011.<br>
    <br>
    Best Regards<br>
    <br>
    Greg B.<br>
    On 7/11/2011 9:03 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694CC1D@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Hi CCAMPer's,

Following the previous exchanges,
please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04</a>

Best regards to all,

Pierre
</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</pre>
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From Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com  Mon Jul 18 07:42:08 2011
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From: Steve Balls <Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Hi Fatai,

We have one question on the contents of the Bit_Rate field within the traff=
ic parameters.  The draft is not explicit whether this value should be in b=
its per second or bytes per second.  From the name of the field we assume t=
he intention is for the value to be in bits per second.  However, the Max L=
SP Bandwidth value flooded in routing (against which a routing calculation =
would compare) is flooded in bytes per second.

We would like to see the two values aligned and suggest the Bit_Rate field =
is explicitly defined to be in bytes per second.  Do you agree?

Thanks,

Steve

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of F=
atai Zhang
Sent: 08 July 2011 04:23
To: 'CCAMP'
Subject: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

Hi all,

The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard tim=
e.

We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged=
 draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not goin=
g to summarize what we have achieved, :).

Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active exp=
erts.

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt


Thanks

Fatai


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	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-t=
rim:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Fa=
tai,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">We ha=
ve one question on the contents of the Bit_Rate field within the traffic pa=
rameters.&nbsp; The draft is not explicit whether this value should be in b=
its per second or bytes per second.&nbsp; From
 the name of the field we assume the intention is for the value to be in bi=
ts per second.&nbsp; However, the Max LSP Bandwidth value flooded in routin=
g (against which a routing calculation would compare) is flooded in bytes p=
er second.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">We wo=
uld like to see the two values aligned and suggest the Bit_Rate field is ex=
plicitly defined to be in bytes per second.&nbsp; Do you agree?<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Steve=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:gray"></span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounce=
s@ietf.org
 [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 July 2011 04:23<br>
<b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hi a=
ll,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">The =
merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard time.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We w=
ould like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged dra=
ft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to=
 summarize what we have achieved,
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings=
">J</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Than=
ks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active experts=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt"=
>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Than=
ks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_1508F62A2F511042B45D315CFF74E2299E061CENFICSMBX1datconc_--

From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Mon Jul 18 08:53:43 2011
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Julien, if I recall the entire argument for changing the existing 
draft given in Prague was that the TLVs were somehow too big. We have 
shown that the analysis of this in Peloso-03 and Peloso-04 was false and 
that current encodings are as efficient or better than alternatives in 
Peloso-03/04.
As a implementer, I've found it easy to work with 16 bit and 32 bit 
lengths for identifiers.
Regards

Greg
On 7/18/2011 7:21 AM, Julien Meuric wrote:
> Hi Greg.
>
> If there are "obscure details" in those drafts, discussing is an 
> efficient way to bring them into the light and improve the content. I 
> expect IETF documents to provide clear details that I can deploy. For 
> instance, if ID stability is not mentioned, then I do not know why I 
> would take it for granted.
>
> Besides, your argument reads odd to me. Unnumbered interface IDs are 
> 32-bit long, while I guess nobody ever expected to make full use of a 
> node-local ID space as large as IPv4. Size matters to implementers, 
> especially as we are not building new protocols but extending existing 
> ones. If 16-bit ID is more specific than a generic 32-bit ID, then we 
> have "size vs. implementation efficiency"; since I care about size 
> mainly for an efficiency purpose, then I believe a 32-bit length 
> deserves to be considered.
>
> Any opinion from implementers?
>
> Regards,
>
> Julien
>
>
> Le 15/07/2011 22:33, Greg Bernstein a écrit :
>> Hi Cyril, the conversation below seems focused on relatively obscure 
>> details.
>> A resource block is not a link.  Sixteen bits versus 32 bits for a 
>> resource block id saves space.
>> The issue of "stability across control plane restart and 
>> configuration change" is not particular to resource block IDs, nor to 
>> WSON extensions of GMPLS. GMPLS link IDs can be changed.
>> Is there an actual problem you are trying to solve? If so, please 
>> state it in a succinct and clear fashion then we can all solve it.
>>
>> Regards
>> Greg B.
>> On 7/15/2011 7:32 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>>> Hi Greg,
>>> Please see clarification inline
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ext Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]
>>>>
>>>> Hi Cyril, see comments below.
>>>> Greg
>>>> On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block
>>>> IDs
>>>>> with 16 bits With few motivation and without any definition in the
>>>>> WG-drafts if they are stable or not.
>>>> -->  This allows for 65,536 resources per node.  I'm not sure what you
>>>> mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources
>>>> is provisioned  by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively
>>>> "static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal.
>>> I mean stable across control plane restart and configuration change.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The only statement I have seen is :
>>>>> "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is
>>> a
>>>>> 16 bit integer."
>>>>>
>>>>> I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs
>>> assignments
>>>>> in nodes.
>>>> Which ID's in nodes?  Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4,
>>>> IPv6 and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards.
>>> I mean unnumbered interface IDs. Node usually assign interface ids to
>>> their
>>>   different ports (being internal or external), this assignment tend to
>>> be also
>>>   meaningful for the management system and are usually based on 32 bit
>>> ids.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in general
>>>>> constraint can be used.
>>>> -->  The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It
>>> works
>>>> with "Link Sets".
>>> I will rephrase then :
>>>   Using a 32 bit unnumbered interface identifiers would allow the
>>>   connectivity matrix as defined in general constraint to be used.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>    Your opinion is that it should be a
>>>>> separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go
>>>>> in the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
>>>>> connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I
>>> would
>>>>> be interested to hear other people opinions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids,
>>>>> this
>>>>> 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
>>>>> 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface)
>>> and
>>>>> I did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may
>>>>> have missed something, Could you indicate :
>>>>>     - should those ID be stable or not?
>>>> -->  What do you mean by stable?
>>> -->  stable across control plane restart and configuration change 
>>> (adding
>>> new HW)
>>>
>>>>>     - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
>>>> -->  Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty.
>>> -->  This has the inconvenient to add another assignment space in the
>>> node,
>>> using unnumbered interface id is far more convenient and generic : if
>>> you
>>> want also to model the 3R construct as a multi-layer (ML) (OCH/ODU)
>>> matrix, then
>>> you will tend to address the 3R using unnumbered (or numbered) 
>>> interface
>>> id.
>>> In general once you have an heuristic to compute a connectivity matrix
>>> in general
>>>   using another space for some element is not convenient.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>     - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?
>>>> -->  Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of.
>>> Its not convenient if you go in the direction of ML representation
>>> the oeo ingress/egress port  might become a link.
>>>
>>> BR
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ext Greg Bernstein
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
>>>>>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to
>>>> describe
>>>>>> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with
>>> "wson
>>>>>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by
>>>> the
>>>>>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
>>>>>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
>>>>>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
>>>>>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
>>>>>> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the
>>>> table.
>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
>>>>> proposed
>>>>>>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
>>>>> read
>>>>>> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads,
>>>>>> this one deals with change 2:
>>>>>>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
>>>>>> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
>>>>>> links and the resource pools.
>>>>>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity
>>> (for
>>>>>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current
>>>>>>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
>>>>>>> LSAs)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [SNIP]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -snip-
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> ===================================================
>>>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> ===================================================
>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] MIB problem
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----- Original Message -----
From: "CsatÃ¡ri JÃ¡nos" <csatarij@tanet.hu>
To: <ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] MIB problem


> Still no idea? :(

Lots of ideas:-(

I-Ds are work in progress, and may or may not advance to RFC; when they do
advance, they may change significantly, particularly with MIB modules, with
objects being deleted, the MIB structure being reorganised and so on.

This I-D has been around since at least 2006, which may mean that it is stable
and mature, or may mean that it has ground to a halt for lack of support.  You
could mail the authors direct - addresses in the I-D - to see what they are
planning to do.

Technically, a problem with most MIB modules is that they need to be inserted
into the existing MIB tree as in

"   tedMIB MODULE-IDENTITY
    ....
        "Initial version. Published as RFC xxx."
     -- RFC-editor pls fill in yyy
      ::= { transmission yyy } "

so the module is unusable until yyy is assigned: and later in the I-D,

"9.1 IANA Considerations for TED-MIB

   The IANA is requested to assign {transmission XXX } to the TED-MIB
   module specified in this document. "

Well, assuming that yyy = XXX then this assignation takes place when the I-D is
approved for publication as an RFC, which again militates against there being
many implementations of it
prior to then, since they will all need updating when IANA then determines the
value of yyy/XXX.

So you could have a long wait or even an infinite wait, but do try the authors;
they will be more optimistic than I.

The convention is to say 'Hope This Helps' but that may not be suitable in this
case:-(

Tom Petch
>
> CsatÃ¡ri JÃ¡nos <csatarij@tanet.hu> Ã­rta :
>
> > Dear all!
> >
> > I am working on an MPLS-discovery project, and I would like to include
OSPF-TE information in the objects. Since I didn't found any MIB definiton where
Link attributes (Maximum BW, Maximum Reservable BW, Unreserved BW) reside (RFC
3630 - OSPFv2 TE), I found the draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09 Internet Draft,
which would be very good to use. (Does every device uses it?)
> >
> > But when I wanted to try this MIB definition in a GUI MIB Browser
(iReasoning MIB Browser), I couldn't import it saying "contains unknown MIB
node: tedConformance (from module null)". Is there any idea to overcome this
problem?
> >
> > Anyway, is it a wise idea to use an Internet Draft? If not, what would you
suggest to cultivate these data?
> >
> > Thanks for advice!
> >
> > Greetings,
> > JÃ¡nos
> >
> >


From lberger@labn.net  Mon Jul 18 10:07:49 2011
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To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com><4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com><4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com><D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net><4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694D325@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<4E1DFB6D.6040601@grotto-networking.co!	m>	<D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2029BA9CF@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.n!	!	et> <4E	2046FB.5050201@grotto-networking.com>	<D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2029BB2AC@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	<4E20A407.4070403@grotto-networking.com>	<4E244169.9040106@orange-ftgroup.com> <4E2456FF.6050002@grotto-networking.com>
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to describe pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Greg,
	It seems the discussion has moved on from the simple efficiency
discussion.  Use of consistent length identifiers and stability across
restarts are important, real world, implementation considerations.

Note, I'm not endorsing any changes here, just that (IMO) we should
ensure that issues that come out of this general discussion are covered
in the WG documents.

Lou

On 7/18/2011 11:53 AM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
> Hi Julien, if I recall the entire argument for changing the existing 
> draft given in Prague was that the TLVs were somehow too big. We have 
> shown that the analysis of this in Peloso-03 and Peloso-04 was false and 
> that current encodings are as efficient or better than alternatives in 
> Peloso-03/04.
> As a implementer, I've found it easy to work with 16 bit and 32 bit 
> lengths for identifiers.
> Regards
> 
> Greg
> On 7/18/2011 7:21 AM, Julien Meuric wrote:
>> Hi Greg.
>>
>> If there are "obscure details" in those drafts, discussing is an 
>> efficient way to bring them into the light and improve the content. I 
>> expect IETF documents to provide clear details that I can deploy. For 
>> instance, if ID stability is not mentioned, then I do not know why I 
>> would take it for granted.
>>
>> Besides, your argument reads odd to me. Unnumbered interface IDs are 
>> 32-bit long, while I guess nobody ever expected to make full use of a 
>> node-local ID space as large as IPv4. Size matters to implementers, 
>> especially as we are not building new protocols but extending existing 
>> ones. If 16-bit ID is more specific than a generic 32-bit ID, then we 
>> have "size vs. implementation efficiency"; since I care about size 
>> mainly for an efficiency purpose, then I believe a 32-bit length 
>> deserves to be considered.
>>
>> Any opinion from implementers?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Julien
>>
>>
>> Le 15/07/2011 22:33, Greg Bernstein a écrit :
>>> Hi Cyril, the conversation below seems focused on relatively obscure 
>>> details.
>>> A resource block is not a link.  Sixteen bits versus 32 bits for a 
>>> resource block id saves space.
>>> The issue of "stability across control plane restart and 
>>> configuration change" is not particular to resource block IDs, nor to 
>>> WSON extensions of GMPLS. GMPLS link IDs can be changed.
>>> Is there an actual problem you are trying to solve? If so, please 
>>> state it in a succinct and clear fashion then we can all solve it.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Greg B.
>>> On 7/15/2011 7:32 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>> Please see clarification inline
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ext Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Cyril, see comments below.
>>>>> Greg
>>>>> On 7/14/2011 12:48 AM, Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is one thing that really bother me is to have resource block
>>>>> IDs
>>>>>> with 16 bits With few motivation and without any definition in the
>>>>>> WG-drafts if they are stable or not.
>>>>> -->  This allows for 65,536 resources per node.  I'm not sure what you
>>>>> mean by "stable". The assignments of resource block ID's to resources
>>>>> is provisioned  by the equipment. This assignment would be relatively
>>>>> "static", i.e., would not change with LSP creation or removal.
>>>> I mean stable across control plane restart and configuration change.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The only statement I have seen is :
>>>>>> "The RB identifier represents the ID of the resource block which is
>>>> a
>>>>>> 16 bit integer."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would expect a 32 bit stable ID that match existing IDs
>>>> assignments
>>>>>> in nodes.
>>>>> Which ID's in nodes?  Link IDs can take three different forms IPv4,
>>>>> IPv6 and link local identifiers per GMPLS/MPLS standards.
>>>> I mean unnumbered interface IDs. Node usually assign interface ids to
>>>> their
>>>>   different ports (being internal or external), this assignment tend to
>>>> be also
>>>>   meaningful for the management system and are usually based on 32 bit
>>>> ids.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> If a 32 bit ID is used the connectivity matrix as defined in general
>>>>>> constraint can be used.
>>>>> -->  The connectivity matrix doesn't work with IDs of any kind. It
>>>> works
>>>>> with "Link Sets".
>>>> I will rephrase then :
>>>>   Using a 32 bit unnumbered interface identifiers would allow the
>>>>   connectivity matrix as defined in general constraint to be used.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>    Your opinion is that it should be a
>>>>>> separate TLV in the WSON information, My opinion is that it could go
>>>>>> in the general node connectivity, because it's part of the node
>>>>>> connectivity. In the last couple of mail this did not change, I
>>>> would
>>>>>> be interested to hear other people opinions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Coming back to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode resource block ids,
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> 16 ID was introduced in draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-01 (March
>>>>>> 2009), I have looked in the mailing list (only the web interface)
>>>> and
>>>>>> I did not see any justification nor discussion on that topic. I may
>>>>>> have missed something, Could you indicate :
>>>>>>     - should those ID be stable or not?
>>>>> -->  What do you mean by stable?
>>>> -->  stable across control plane restart and configuration change 
>>>> (adding
>>>> new HW)
>>>>
>>>>>>     - What is the motivation behind those 16 bit IDs?
>>>>> -->  Saves space; 65,536 resource block in a switch seems like plenty.
>>>> -->  This has the inconvenient to add another assignment space in the
>>>> node,
>>>> using unnumbered interface id is far more convenient and generic : if
>>>> you
>>>> want also to model the 3R construct as a multi-layer (ML) (OCH/ODU)
>>>> matrix, then
>>>> you will tend to address the 3R using unnumbered (or numbered) 
>>>> interface
>>>> id.
>>>> In general once you have an heuristic to compute a connectivity matrix
>>>> in general
>>>>   using another space for some element is not convenient.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>     - What is the problem having 32 bit node unique ids?
>>>>> -->  Uses more space; Doesn't solve any problems that we know of.
>>>> Its not convenient if you go in the direction of ML representation
>>>> the oeo ingress/egress port  might become a link.
>>>>
>>>> BR
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ext Greg Bernstein
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:09 PM
>>>>>>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 2: Use of connectivity matrix to
>>>>> describe
>>>>>>> pools accessibility (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Pierre, as previously stated:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This change mixes information from "general constraints" with
>>>> "wson
>>>>>>> specific constraints" and hence goes against the decision made by
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> CCAMP WG at the March 2009 San Francisco IETF. This proposed change
>>>>>>> does not result in any space savings and results in an undesirable
>>>>>>> mixing of separate concepts.  All current WSON drafts include
>>>>>>> separation of relatively "static" from more "dynamic" information,
>>>>>>> hence this change is unnecessary. Hence you can take it off the
>>>>> table.
>>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes
>>>>>> proposed
>>>>>>>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily
>>>>>> read
>>>>>>> through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads,
>>>>>>> this one deals with change 2:
>>>>>>>> Use of the connectivity matrix defined inside the node entity in
>>>>>>> order to describe connectivity constraints between node-external
>>>>>>> links and the resource pools.
>>>>>>>> MOTIVATION: a/ to gather static information inside node entity
>>>> (for
>>>>>>>> OSPF-TE inside a LSA never flooded upon LSP updates). b/ to limit
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> number of connectivity representations introduced by current
>>>>>>>> extensions (draft-ietf-rwa-info proposes similar TLVs in different
>>>>>>>> LSAs)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [SNIP]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -snip-
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> ===================================================
>>>>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> ===================================================
>>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

From lberger@labn.net  Mon Jul 18 10:07:50 2011
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Daniele,
	It sounds like both cases are part of standard standard hierarchy issues...

Lou

On 7/18/2011 6:27 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> Indeed it is worth distinguishing between the two cases. 
> 
> When the FA is already created it is automatically the less expensive path, so I agree that there is no difference between a server layer or another.
> On the other side, in case the FA has not been created yet, the server layer issue should be addressed in my opinion.
> 
> Thanks
> Daniele
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] 
> Sent: venerd¨¬ 15 luglio 2011 18.04
> To: Daniele Ceccarelli
> Cc: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn; 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
> 
> Daniele,
> 	Perhaps I misunderstood Xihua.  I thought the case he was discussing already had the ODU2 FAs established (i.e., underlying allocation has already taken place.)
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 7/15/2011 12:54 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>> Xihua, Lou,
>>
>> For sure this is not one of the key requirements that would prevent the network from correctly working, but the capability of being able to choose the server layer might be an attractive feature. If I were an operator and I had to set up a 10Gb LSP (i.e. ODU2) I would prefer to use a 40Gb lambda (ODU3/OTU3) rather than a 100Gb one (ODU4/OTU4), so that I would be able to accept a future connection request of 100Gbps through the ODU4 link.
>> This could be achieved in two ways:
>> 1. Explicitly choosing the component link via the signaling 2. Having 
>> an "algorithm" on the intermediates nodes so that the choice of the component link is local but "starts" from the smallest available server.
>>
>> I don't know if this requirement needs to be added or not. Your opinion?
>>
>> BR
>> Daniele
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: gioved¨¬ 14 luglio 2011 18.27
>> To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>
>>> we may have a requirement
>>> to explicit select a component link (i.e., ODU2 FA) which is over 
>>> ODU4 server layer.
>>
>> Xihua,
>> 	Why would one care how the ODU2 FA is transported (ODU3 vs ODU4) in this case?
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 7/12/2011 7:36 PM, fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Daniele,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your clarification.
>>> I can catch the purpose of separate SCSIs for dissimilar hierarchies 
>>> when they are bundled together.
>>> This draft states "A single ISCD TLV MAY be used for the 
>>> advertisement of unbundled or bundled links also with different server layers."
>>> I think the description in this draft is accurate.
>>> So we could bundle 0/2/3 and 0/2/4 together and use two separate 
>>> SCSIs to represent two hierarchies.
>>> What I am curious is after we build two ODU2 FA-LSPs over different 
>>> hierarchies (i.e., server layers ODU3 and ODU4) and bundle both of
>>> ODU2 FAs together, we can use only one SCSI to represent it.
>>> Based on draft-ietf-mpls-explicit-resource-control-bundle-10, when an 
>>> ODU0 is going to over bundle link of ODU2 FA, we may have a 
>>> requirement to explicit select a component link (i.e., ODU2 FA) which 
>>> is over ODU4 server layer. But there isn't enough information for this requirement.
>>>
>>> Xihua Fu
>>>
>>>
>>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>>
>>> 2011-07-12 ÏÂÎç 06:25
>>>
>>> 	
>>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>>> ³­ËÍ
>>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'"
>>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Fatai Zhang 
>>> <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>> Ö÷Ìâ
>>> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Xihua,
>>>  
>>> the case you are considering is a quite a simple scenario and there 
>>> would be no issue in having the two hierarchies adverties into the 
>>> same SCSI, but there are some "unlucky" cases in which bundling 
>>> component links with dissimilar hierarchies could cause ambiguities.
>>> Let's try to analize one of them. Suppose to have the following 
>>> hierarchies supported (quite similar to the one present in the -06 
>>> version of the draft)
>>> Component Link#1      Component Link#2    
>>>         ODU0                  ODU0            
>>>          |                     |                  
>>>         ODU3                  ODU3                
>>>          |                     |                  
>>>         ODU4                  ODU4
>>> We said that the advertisement of intermediate layers bandwidth is 
>>> required in order to know how many FA can be set up. In this case, 
>>> the advertisement of both
>>> ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
>>> ODU3->ODU4
>>> available bandwidth is performed so to know how many ODU3 FA can be 
>>> setup. In the case above it is possible to advertise the 2 component 
>>> links into the same SCSI.
>>> On the other side, if you have to bundle the 3 component links in the 
>>> following, there could be an ambiguity:
>>> Component Link#1      Component Link#2     Component Link#3
>>>         ODU0                  ODU0            
>>>          |                     |                  ODU3
>>>         ODU3                  ODU3                 |
>>>          |                     |                  ODU4
>>>         ODU4                  ODU4
>>> Merging all the component links into the same SCSI would cause this 
>>> type of advertisement:
>>>  
>>> ODU0->ODU3->ODU4 and
>>> ODU3->ODU4
>>>  
>>> But in this case it is not possible to know how many ODU3->ODU4 are 
>>> availalbe for ODU3 FA set up (i.e. belonging to the ODU0->ODU3->ODU4
>>> hierarchy) and how many simple ODU3 cannot be used for ODU0 transport 
>>> (i.e. belonging to ODU3->ODU4 hierarchy).
>>>  
>>> This issue *does not* prevent to perform the bundling of the three 
>>> component links and can be simply solved advertising component links
>>> #1 and #2 into an SCSI and component link #3 in a different one (all 
>>> inside the same ISCD).
>>>  
>>> By the way thaks a lot for the question, this clarification will be 
>>> introduced into the next version of the draft.
>>>  
>>> BR
>>> Daniele
>>>  
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> --
>>> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>>> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 16.25*
>>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>>> Subject:* RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Daniele,
>>>
>>> One more question.
>>> "
>>>   The ISCD includes a variable number of SCSI TLVs as described in the
>>>   following sections.  A single ISCD TLV MAY be used for the
>>>   advertisement of unbundled or bundled links also with different
>>>   server layers.  A different SCSI TLV MUST be used for each different
>>>   muxing hierarchy (muxing tree in the following examples).
>>> "
>>> There two links among A, B and C. One link #1 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU3.
>>> Another link #2 supports ODU0-ODU2-ODU4.
>>>                             0/2/4                                      
>>>                     4/2/0
>>>                                     |                           B      
>>>                      |    
>>> o---------------o  X  o--------------o  X  o--------------o  X 
>>> o----------------o
>>>                          A       o--------------o  X  o--------------o  
>>>  C                                
>>>                                     |                                  
>>>                         |
>>>                              0/2/3                                      
>>>                    3/2/0
>>>
>>> Although we could bundle them together, there must be two SCSIs to 
>>> represent different hierarchy. What benefit I could see is there is 
>>> just one block for Max LSP bandwidth, SC, ET and so on.
>>>
>>> Another usecase is that if we create two ODU 2 FA-LSP over link #1 
>>> and link #2 and make them as a TE Link, we could bundle them together 
>>> based on the current OSPF extension in this draft.
>>> In my opion, we could use one SCSI to represent ODU2 bundle link.
>>>
>>> Xihua
>>>
>>>
>>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>>
>>> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 09:40
>>>
>>> 	
>>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>>> ³­ËÍ
>>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>>> Ö÷Ìâ
>>> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Xihua,
>>>  
>>> given that the SCSI is mandatory and not optional, the info in the 
>>> MAX LSP bandwdith fields is implicitely not enough for the path 
>>> computation :-)
>>>  
>>> Thanks
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> --
>>> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>>> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 15.33*
>>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>>> Subject:* RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Daniele,
>>>
>>> How about adding following sentence into draft?
>>>
>>> "If Encoding Type is G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) , information in MAX 
>>> LSP bandwidth block is not enough for the patch computation. The SCSI 
>>> must be used. Implementation must not rely on MAX LSP bandwidth block"
>>>
>>> Xihua
>>>
>>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>>
>>> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 09:18
>>>
>>> 	
>>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>>> ³­ËÍ
>>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>>> Ö÷Ìâ
>>> 	RE: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Xihua,
>>>
>>> in the end this message is an ISCD, so we must keep the same format 
>>> and same values. The MAX LSP bandwidth is present and must be filled 
>>> as defined in RFC4203 (as written in the draft). Given that RFC 4203 
>>> just says few words on "how to fill" that field, we just added few 
>>> words to say it explicitely.
>>> What's your suggestion?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> --
>>> *
>>> From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>>> Sent:* gioved¨¬ 7 luglio 2011 13.01*
>>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>>> Subject:* Re: RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>> HiDaniele,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your clarification.
>>> We know how Maximum LSP Bandwidth is standardized except this draft.
>>> If it doesn't make any sense to path computation, it doesn't matter 
>>> with how to standardize it in this draft.
>>>
>>> Xihua
>>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>>
>>> 2011-07-07 ÏÂÎç 06:14
>>>
>>> 	
>>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>>> 	"fu.xihua@zte.com.cn" <fu.xihua@zte.com.cn>
>>> ³­ËÍ
>>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"
>>> <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>, "danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>>> Ö÷Ìâ
>>> 	RE: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Xihua,
>>>
>>> for sure RFC4204 is not correct, given that it is about LMP :-)
>>>
>>> The draft defines a guideline on how to fill those fields. RFC 4203 
>>> states that:
>>>
>>> Maximum LSP Bandwidth is encoded as a list of eight 4 octet fields in 
>>> the IEEE floating point format [_IEEE_ 
>>> <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4203#ref-IEEE>], with priority 0 first 
>>> and priority 7 last.  The units are bytes (not bits!) per second.
>>>
>>> and the MAX LSP field must be filled accordingly. Given that the OTN 
>>> has a complex hierarchy, the max LSP bandwidth is equal to the "biggest"
>>> available container of the hierarchy. Moreover at different 
>>> priorities can correspond different MAX LSP bandwidth availabilities.
>>>
>>> You're rigth when saying that this information is not enough for the 
>>> PCE and the SCSI must be used.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> --
>>> *From:* fu.xihua@zte.com.cn [mailto:fu.xihua@zte.com.cn] *
>>> Sent:* mercoled¨¬ 6 luglio 2011 13.37*
>>> To:* Daniele Ceccarelli*
>>> Cc:* 'CCAMP'; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org; danli@huawei.com*
>>> Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Daniele,
>>>
>>> One more comment.
>>> In section "4.  ISCD format extensions",  it write:
>>> "The MAX LSP bandwidth field is used accordingly to RFC4204: i.e. 0 
>>> <= Max LSP Bandwidth <= ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values are those 
>>> on the branch of OTN switching hierarchy supported by the interface.
>>> E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP 
>>> Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others etc.
>>> "
>>> In my understanding, there is no any standardized principle about how 
>>> to value this unit.
>>> It doesn't make any sense to path computation entity. It has to rely 
>>> on SCSI information.
>>> Is that right?
>>>
>>> Xihua
>>> *Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>*
>>> ·¢¼þÈË:  ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>> 2011-06-27 ÏÂÎç 09:28
>>>
>>> 	
>>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>>> 	'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>> ³­ËÍ
>>> 	"danli@huawei.com" <danli@huawei.com>
>>> Ö÷Ìâ
>>> 	[CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi CCAMPers,
>>>
>>> As promised during the IETF meeting in Prague the authors of the two 
>>> competing drafts on OSPF-TE routing extensions for OTN have been 
>>> working together and a merged document has been produced.
>>>
>>> You can find the merged ID at the following link: _
>>>
>>> __http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ceccarelli-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709-06.
>>> t
>>> xt_
>>>
>>> Comments and feedback are appreciated
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> The authors
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> DANIELE CECCARELLI
>>> System & Technology - DU IP & Broadband*
>>>
>>> Via L.Calda, 5
>>> Genova, Italy
>>> Phone +390106002512
>>> Mobile +393346725750
>>> daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com_
>>> __www.ericsson.com_ _
>>>
>>>
>>> _ <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>
>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on 
>>> the basis of the term set out at _www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer_
>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Mon Jul 18 22:53:40 2011
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:50:18 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <1508F62A2F511042B45D315CFF74E2299E061C@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk>
To: 'Steve Balls' <Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Hi Steve,

=20

Thanks for your suggestion.

=20

Agree with you and we will add some text to refine it in the next =
version.

=20

=20

=20

Thanks
=20
Fatai

=20

From: Steve Balls [mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com]=20
Sent: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C218=C8=D5 22:40
To: Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

=20

Hi Fatai,

=20

We have one question on the contents of the Bit_Rate field within the
traffic parameters.  The draft is not explicit whether this value should =
be
in bits per second or bytes per second.  From the name of the field we
assume the intention is for the value to be in bits per second.  =
However,
the Max LSP Bandwidth value flooded in routing (against which a routing
calculation would compare) is flooded in bytes per second.

=20

We would like to see the two values aligned and suggest the Bit_Rate =
field
is explicitly defined to be in bytes per second.  Do you agree?

=20

Thanks,

=20

Steve

=20

=20

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
Fatai Zhang
Sent: 08 July 2011 04:23
To: 'CCAMP'
Subject: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

=20

Hi all,

=20

The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard
time.

=20

We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this =
merged
draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not =
going
to summarize what we have achieved, J.

=20

Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active
experts.

=20

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt

=20

=20

Thanks
=20
Fatai

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Steve,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks =
for your suggestion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Agree =
with you and we will add some text to refine it in the next =
version.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Steve =
Balls [mailto:Steve.Balls@metaswitch.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>18</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
22:40<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] =
the merged OTN signaling draft =
uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We have one question on the =
contents of the Bit_Rate field within the traffic parameters.&nbsp; The =
draft is not explicit whether this value should be in bits per second or =
bytes per second.&nbsp; From the name of the field we assume the =
intention is for the value to be in bits per second.&nbsp; However, the =
Max LSP Bandwidth value flooded in routing (against which a routing =
calculation would compare) is flooded in bytes per =
second.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We would like to see the two =
values aligned and suggest the Bit_Rate field is explicitly defined to =
be in bytes per second.&nbsp; Do you agree?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> 08 July 2011 04:23<br><b>To:</b> =
'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft =
uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The =
merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard =
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would =
like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged draft =
and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to =
summarize what we have achieved, </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks =
to all the people including the authors, contributors and active =
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.t=
xt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</=
a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>=

--Boundary_(ID_ZOe5AxRk8hhEoUZ6V0P5BA)--

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From csatarij@tanet.hu  Tue Jul 19 01:58:37 2011
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References: <20110714144438.E59A421F8A57@ietfa.amsl.com> <20110718132845.E8F8721F8761@ietfa.amsl.com> <018201cc4560$982d8a00$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] MIB problem
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Thank you so much for your advice! :)

I think I will contact the I-D authors, as I see they are from the same 
company.

Again, thank you! :)

2011.07.18. 17:36 keltezÃ©ssel, t.petch Ã­rta:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "CsatÃ¡ri JÃ¡nos"<csatarij@tanet.hu>
> To:<ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] MIB problem
>
>
>> Still no idea? :(
> Lots of ideas:-(
>
> I-Ds are work in progress, and may or may not advance to RFC; when they do
> advance, they may change significantly, particularly with MIB modules, with
> objects being deleted, the MIB structure being reorganised and so on.
>
> This I-D has been around since at least 2006, which may mean that it is stable
> and mature, or may mean that it has ground to a halt for lack of support.  You
> could mail the authors direct - addresses in the I-D - to see what they are
> planning to do.
>
> Technically, a problem with most MIB modules is that they need to be inserted
> into the existing MIB tree as in
>
> "   tedMIB MODULE-IDENTITY
>      ....
>          "Initial version. Published as RFC xxx."
>       -- RFC-editor pls fill in yyy
>        ::= { transmission yyy } "
>
> so the module is unusable until yyy is assigned: and later in the I-D,
>
> "9.1 IANA Considerations for TED-MIB
>
>     The IANA is requested to assign {transmission XXX } to the TED-MIB
>     module specified in this document. "
>
> Well, assuming that yyy = XXX then this assignation takes place when the I-D is
> approved for publication as an RFC, which again militates against there being
> many implementations of it
> prior to then, since they will all need updating when IANA then determines the
> value of yyy/XXX.
>
> So you could have a long wait or even an infinite wait, but do try the authors;
> they will be more optimistic than I.
>
> The convention is to say 'Hope This Helps' but that may not be suitable in this
> case:-(
>
> Tom Petch
>> CsatÃ¡ri JÃ¡nos<csatarij@tanet.hu>  Ã­rta :
>>
>>> Dear all!
>>>
>>> I am working on an MPLS-discovery project, and I would like to include
> OSPF-TE information in the objects. Since I didn't found any MIB definiton where
> Link attributes (Maximum BW, Maximum Reservable BW, Unreserved BW) reside (RFC
> 3630 - OSPFv2 TE), I found the draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-09 Internet Draft,
> which would be very good to use. (Does every device uses it?)
>>> But when I wanted to try this MIB definition in a GUI MIB Browser
> (iReasoning MIB Browser), I couldn't import it saying "contains unknown MIB
> node: tedConformance (from module null)". Is there any idea to overcome this
> problem?
>>> Anyway, is it a wise idea to use an Internet Draft? If not, what would you
> suggest to cultivate these data?
>>> Thanks for advice!
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> JÃ¡nos
>>>
>>>
>

From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Tue Jul 19 03:28:02 2011
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:27:55 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>, "ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN drafts merged
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:11:29 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN drafts merged
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Tue Jul 19 08:35:46 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:34:22 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN drafts merged
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN drafts merged
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>
To: "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF81 - Agenda and Prep
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CCAMP,

The (hopefully) final version of the agenda has been uploaded. Please
review and let us know if you see any issues.

We will be without our Secretary - we will need a couple of minute
takers. Please let us know if you can help.

For Presenters, please send the chairs (ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org)
your slides, no later than by the end of the day, Sunday, July 24th, to
allow sufficient time for upload and review prior to the meeting.

Thanks,
Deborah and Lou

From db3546@att.com  Tue Jul 19 12:34:04 2011
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>
To: "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF81 - Agenda and Prep
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Here's the link:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/81/agenda/ccamp.htm

And the link for the meeting materials:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/81/materials.html


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 3:31 PM
To: CCAMP
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF81 - Agenda and Prep

CCAMP,

The (hopefully) final version of the agenda has been uploaded. Please
review and let us know if you see any issues.

We will be without our Secretary - we will need a couple of minute
takers. Please let us know if you can help.

For Presenters, please send the chairs (ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org)
your slides, no later than by the end of the day, Sunday, July 24th, to
allow sufficient time for upload and review prior to the meeting.

Thanks,
Deborah and Lou
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From adrian@olddog.co.uk  Tue Jul 19 13:12:53 2011
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>, "'CCAMP'" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:12:48 +0100
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Subject: [CCAMP] FW: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying-10.txt> (Applicability of Keying Methods for RSVP Security) to Informational RFC
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MPLS and CCAMP working groups.

Please be aware of and participate in this IETF last call.

Thanks,
Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> The IESG
> Sent: 18 July 2011 14:29
> To: IETF-Announce
> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
> Subject: Last Call: <draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying-10.txt>
> (Applicability of Keying Methods for RSVP Security) to Informational RFC
> 
> 
> The IESG has received a request from the Transport Area Working Group
> (tsvwg) to consider the following document:
> - 'Applicability of Keying Methods for RSVP Security'
>   <draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying-10.txt> as an Informational
> RFC
> 
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2011-08-01. Exceptionally, comments may be
> sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> 
> Abstract
> 
> 
>    The Resource reSerVation Protocol (RSVP) allows hop-by-hop integrity
>    protection of RSVP neighbors.  This requires messages to be
>    cryptographically protected using a shared secret between
>    participating nodes.  This document compares group keying for RSVP
>    with per neighbor or per interface keying, and discusses the
>    associated key provisioning methods as well as applicability and
>    limitations of these approaches.  The document also discusses
>    applicability of encrypting RSVP messages.
> 
> The Responsible AD notes that the IPR declaration terms seem to apply to
> standards-track documents, but not necessarily to an Informational document.
> 
> The file can be obtained via
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying/
> 
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying/
> 
> 
> The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D:
> 
>    http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/988/
> 



From fu.xihua@zte.com.cn  Tue Jul 19 21:07:56 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] Request for your comments on Delay/Loss TE
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Hi All, 

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-delay-loss-te-framework-00
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00
These document are about the requirement of delay/loss TE application and 
solutions in the level of control plane.
The purpose of delay/loss TE application is to make an accurate prediction 
of latency and packet loss before a path is establish is required.

We have presented them in 79th and 80th in CCAMP.
Chairs (Ross and Lou) suggest latency/loss framework and rsvp-te document 
should be presented in MPLS WG.
We will rename the document having title "mpls" and post them to MPLS WG 
later.

There is also a related document about the OSPF extension
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01

Wish for your comments.

Xihua Fu (One of Authors)
--=_alternative 0016AAA4482578D3_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"


<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">Hi All, </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-delay-loss-te-framework-00</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuxh-ccamp-delay-loss-rsvp-te-ext-00</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">These document are about the requirement
of delay/loss TE application and solutions in the level of control plane.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">The purpose of delay/loss TE application
is to make an accurate prediction of latency and packet loss before a path
is establish is required.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">We have presented them in 79th and 80th
in CCAMP.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">Chairs (Ross and Lou) suggest latency/loss
framework and rsvp-te document should be presented in MPLS WG.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">We will rename the document having title
&quot;mpls&quot; and post them to MPLS WG later.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">There is also a related document about
the OSPF extension</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-giacalone-ospf-te-express-path-01</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">Wish for your comments.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3 face="Calibri">Xihua Fu (One of Authors)</font>
--=_alternative 0016AAA4482578D3_=--


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From pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 20 06:59:06 2011
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From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 15:58:48 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for	draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt
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Hi Greg,

As you mention back your email of 7/5/2011, I take the opportunity to bring=
 back our answer with comments and questions raised then to move towards a =
consensus (email of 7/8/2011).
These comments happened to be passed-by, let me then give this a second cha=
nce, please see attached the previously provided elements.

Regards,

- pierre

________________________________
De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de G=
reg Bernstein
Envoy=E9 : lundi 18 juillet 2011 16:39
=C0 : ccamp@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for draft-peloso-ccamp-wso=
n-ospf-oeo-04.txt

Hi Pierre and CCAMPers, the analysis in Appendix A of the Peloso draft is s=
till incorrect and does not seem based on the current WSON WG encoding draf=
t http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/ publish=
ed 3/14/2011, and continues to misrepresent the capabilities of the current=
 WSON WG draft.  An example of how the situation mentioned in Appendix A of=
 Peloso-04 can be efficiently encoded with the current WG was given in an e=
-mail to the CCAMP list on 7/5/2011.

Best Regards

Greg B.
On 7/11/2011 9:03 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:

Hi CCAMPer's,

Following the previous exchanges,
please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04

Best regards to all,

Pierre




_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp




--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">H=
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Greg,</SPAN><?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
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s you=20
mention back&nbsp;your email of 7/5/2011,&nbsp;I take the opportunity to br=
ing=20
back our answer&nbsp;with comments and questions raised<SPAN=20
class=3D596285513-20072011> then</SPAN>&nbsp;<SPAN=20
class=3D596285513-20072011>to&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN class=3D596285513-20072011>=
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towards</SPAN>&nbsp;a consensus (email of 7/8/2011).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV=
>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal dir=3Dltr><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">T=
hese=20
comments&nbsp;happened to be&nbsp;passed-by, let me then give this&nbsp;a s=
econd=20
chance, please see attached the&nbsp;previously provided=20
elements.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>- p<SPAN=20
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  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>De&nbsp;:</B> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>De la part de</B> Greg=20
  Bernstein<BR><B>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</B> lundi 18 juillet 2011=20
  16:39<BR><B>=C0&nbsp;:</B> ccamp@ietf.org<BR><B>Objet&nbsp;:</B> Re: [CCA=
MP] TR:=20
  New Version Notification for=20
  draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Hi Pierre and CCAMPers, the analysis in Appendix A of the Pelo=
so=20
  draft is still incorrect and does not seem based on the current WSON WG=20
  encoding draft <A=20
  href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/=
">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/</A>=20
  published 3/14/2011, and continues to misrepresent the capabilities of th=
e=20
  current WSON WG draft.&nbsp; An example of how the situation mentioned in=
=20
  Appendix A of Peloso-04 can be efficiently encoded with the current WG wa=
s=20
  given in an e-mail to the CCAMP list on 7/5/2011.<BR><BR>Best=20
  Regards<BR><BR>Greg B.<BR>On 7/11/2011 9:03 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) w=
rote:=20

  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  cite=3Dmid:CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694CC1D@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m=
.alcatel-lucent.com=20
  type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Hi CCAMPer's,

Following the previous exchanges,
please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-p=
eloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp=
-wson-ospf-oeo-04</A>

Best regards to all,

Pierre
</PRE><BR>
    <FIELDSET class=3DmimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET> <BR><PRE wrap=3D"">_=
______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ie=
tf.org</A>
<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE)" <pierre.peloso@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:15:26 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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References: <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129673243E@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF2027CAC27@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net>	A <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62F931@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF202806DEE@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E170C62FA55@DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <4DFB7ED7.5040509@orange-ftgroup.com> <4DFB947B.1050409@grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129681EAC9@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718137E45@dfweml502-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4E09EBCF.2020207@labn.net><CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212968DFD7A@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1324A9.4080502@grotto-networking.com> <D5EABC6FDAFDAA47BC803114C68AABF20293EAF8@DEMUEXC012.nsn-intra.net> <4E172D33.4000800@grotto-networking.com> <CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694D324@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4E1E05B5.3030305@grotto-networking.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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Hi Greg,

The reason we are proposing a change, is that with current WG solution the =
updating process is not detailed, and leaves this in an implementation depe=
ndant interpretation, as is also the composition of each instance of the LS=
A. I would rather have a solution that specifies that as I see this as a fa=
cilitator for interoperability and commonality. Otherwise the WG believes t=
hat having a specified process of updates is not required.
My opinion on that is that in case the cost is low, let it be specified.
Using multiple type of top-level TLV is a way to formalize that, there can =
be alternative approachs, but if there is no constraint in using those, why=
 not exploring this path, as long as nothing else is proposed?

Regards,

- pierre=20

-----Message d'origine-----
De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de G=
reg Bernstein
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 13 juillet 2011 22:53
=C0 : ccamp@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re:=
 Moving the WSON discussion forward)

Pierre, as previously stated multiple instances in OSPF-TE (RFC3630) allow =
one to decrease the flooding size for dynamic information. As RFC3630 indic=
ates: "The Instance field is an arbitrary value used to maintain multiple T=
raffic Engineering LSAs.  A maximum of 16777216 Traffic Engineering LSAs ma=
y be sourced by a single system.". This number of instances should be more =
than enough by far for all WSON applications.  Hence the proposed change is=
 not needed.

Best Regards
Greg

On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>
> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed=20
> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read thr=
ough, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one dea=
ls with change 1:
> Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which allows t=
he definition of several resource entites per node independantly floodable.
> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or t=
ear down). (Resource Pool =3D group of resource blocks with same connectivi=
ty constraints).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> [SNIP]
>
> =3D=3Dsnip=3D=3D


--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237


_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt
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Hi Pierre, your comments were well hidden in the end of your long 
e-mail.  It seems most except the issue about "stability across changes" 
and "lists versus ranges" are concerned with small accounting 
differences or still using your incorrect assumptions.
If there is such a need to use "lists" exclusively rather than "ranges" 
then a simple indirection via a "Group ID" (rather than messing up the 
pool concept) can be defined as follows:
Note containment hierarchy: Pools contain: Groups contain: Resource 
Blocks contain: resources.

Small extension to current Resource Block set field:
The information carried in a RB set field is defined by:
0123
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|Action|E|C|Reserved|Length|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|RBIdentifier 1|RBIdentifier 2|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
:::
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|RBIdentifier n-1|RBIdentifier n|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Action: 8 bits
0 - Inclusive List
Indicates that the field contains one or more RB elements that are 
included in the list.
2 - Inclusive Range
Indicates that the field contains a range of RBs.The object/TLV contains 
two WC elements. The first element indicates the start of the range. The 
second element indicates the end of the range. A value of zero indicates 
that there is no bound on the corresponding portion of the range.
3 -- Predefined Group Identifier
Indicates that the field contains a single resource block group 
identifier. This is potentially useful in cases where a very long 
resource block sets may be reused, such as in resource state update 
messages.

Then one needs a sub-TLV to  define the group IDs:

Resource Group Definition Sub-TLV

This sub-TLV allows one to define resource groups, i.e., sets of 
resources, and give them a group identifier.
0123
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Reserved|Group ID#1|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|RB Set Field for Group #1|
::
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|Reserved|Group ID#2|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|RB Set Field for Group #2|
::
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
...
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|Reserved|Group ID#N|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|RB Set Field for Group #N|
::
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

This can solve all the issues with an implementation that exclusively 
uses the "list" mechanism and has an extremely large number of resource 
types.

Greg

On 7/20/2011 6:58 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> As you mention back your email of 7/5/2011, I take the opportunity to 
> bring back our answer with comments and questions raisedthen to move 
> towards a consensus (email of 7/8/2011).
> These comments happened to be passed-by, let me then give this a 
> second chance, please see attached the previously provided elements.
> Regards,
> - pierre
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *De :* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *De
>     la part de* Greg Bernstein
>     *Envoyé :* lundi 18 juillet 2011 16:39
>     *À :* ccamp@ietf.org
>     *Objet :* Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for
>     draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt
>
>     Hi Pierre and CCAMPers, the analysis in Appendix A of the Peloso
>     draft is still incorrect and does not seem based on the current
>     WSON WG encoding draft
>     http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/
>     published 3/14/2011, and continues to misrepresent the
>     capabilities of the current WSON WG draft.  An example of how the
>     situation mentioned in Appendix A of Peloso-04 can be efficiently
>     encoded with the current WG was given in an e-mail to the CCAMP
>     list on 7/5/2011.
>
>     Best Regards
>
>     Greg B.
>     On 7/11/2011 9:03 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>>     Hi CCAMPer's,
>>
>>     Following the previous exchanges,
>>     please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
>>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04
>>
>>     Best regards to all,
>>
>>     Pierre
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     CCAMP mailing list
>>     CCAMP@ietf.org
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>
>     -- 
>     ===================================================
>     Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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    Hi Pierre, your comments were well hidden in the end of your long
    e-mail.&nbsp; It seems most except the issue about "stability across
    changes" and "lists versus ranges" are concerned with small
    accounting differences or still using your incorrect assumptions.<br>
    If there is such a need to use "lists" exclusively rather than
    "ranges" then a simple indirection via a "Group ID" (rather than
    messing up the pool concept) can be defined as follows:<br>
    Note containment hierarchy: Pools contain: Groups contain: Resource
    Blocks contain: resources.<br>
    <br>
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   UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false"
   UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
   UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
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<style>
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<![endif]-->
    <tt>Small extension to current Resource Block set field:<br>
      The information carried in a RB set field is defined by:<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>0<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>1<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>2<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>3<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
      9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Action<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
      </span>|E|C|<span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:
        ZH-CN"> </span>Reserved<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>|<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Length<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
        SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span>|<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
        style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR">+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span><br>
      <span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
        lang="FR"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>RB</span><span
        style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"> Identifier 1<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-ansi-language:
        FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR">|</span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
        SimSun;mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
        lang="FR"> <span style="mso-tab-count:2">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>RB</span><span
        style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"> Identifier </span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:
        ZH-CN" lang="FR">2<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|</span><br>
      <span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span><br>
      <span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>:<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>:<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>:</span><br>
      <span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span><br>
      <span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
        lang="FR">RB</span><span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR">
        Identifier </span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
        lang="FR">n-1</span><span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
        SimSun;mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
        lang="FR"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="mso-ansi-language:
        FR" lang="FR">|</span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;mso-ansi-language:
        FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN" lang="FR"> <span
          style="mso-tab-count:2">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>RB</span><span
        style="mso-ansi-language:
        FR" lang="FR"> Identifier </span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;
        mso-ansi-language:FR;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN" lang="FR">n<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </span>|</span><br>
      <span style="mso-ansi-language:FR" lang="FR"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<br>
      &nbsp;<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Action: 8 bits<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>0 - Inclusive
      List<br>
      Indicates that the field contains one or more RB elements
      that are included in the list.<br>
      <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>2 - Inclusive
      Range<br>
      Indicates that the field contains a range of RBs.<span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>The object/TLV contains two
      WC elements. The
      first element indicates the start of the range. The second element
      indicates
      the end of the range. A value of zero indicates that there is no
      bound on the
      corresponding portion of the range.<br>
      <span style="mso-tab-count:2">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">3 &#8211; Predefined
        Group Identifier</span><br>
      <span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Indicates
        that the field contains a single resource block group
        identifier. This is
        potentially useful in cases where a very long resource block
        sets may be reused,
        such as in resource state update messages.</span></tt><br>
    <br>
    Then one needs a sub-TLV to&nbsp; define the group IDs:<br>
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  <w:TrackMoves/>
  <w:TrackFormatting/>
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  <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>
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  <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther>
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   <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/>
   <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/>
   <w:DontFlipMirrorIndents/>
   <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/>
   <w:UseFELayout/>
  </w:Compatibility>
  <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
  <m:mathPr>
   <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/>
   <m:brkBin m:val="before"/>
   <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/>
   <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/>
   <m:dispDef/>
   <m:lMargin m:val="0"/>
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   <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/>
   <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/>
   <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/>
   <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/>
  </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument>
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  DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99"
  LatentStyleCount="267">
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/>
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</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
 /* Style Definitions */
 table.MsoNormalTable
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	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
	mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-priority:99;
	mso-style-parent:"";
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	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
	font-size:10.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
</style>
<![endif]-->
    <br>
    <tt><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Courier
        New&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;
        background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-list:Ignore"></span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Resource Group
        Definition
        Sub-TLV</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><br>
    <tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">This
        sub-TLV allows one to define resource groups, i.e., sets of
        resources, and give
        them a group identifier.</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>0<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>1<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>2<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>3</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2
        3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
        2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>| <span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>Reserved<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;
        </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Group ID</span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> #1<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;
        mso-highlight:yellow">|</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">RB </span><span
        style="background:yellow;
        mso-highlight:yellow">Set Field </span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">for
Group
      </span><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">#1<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">|</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>:<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>:</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>Reserved<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>|<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Group ID</span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> #2<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">|</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">RB </span><span
        style="background:yellow;
        mso-highlight:yellow">Set Field </span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">for
Group
      </span><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">#2<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">|</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>:<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>:</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>...</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>Reserved<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>|<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Group ID</span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"> #N<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">|</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>|<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">RB </span><span
        style="background:yellow;
        mso-highlight:yellow">Set Field </span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">for
Group
      </span><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">#N<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;
        mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
        style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span></span><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:
SimSun;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">|</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>:<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span
          style="mso-tab-count:1">&nbsp; </span><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>:</span></tt><br>
    <tt>
    </tt><tt><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;
        </span>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></tt><br>
    <br>
    This can solve all the issues with an implementation that
    exclusively uses the "list" mechanism and has an extremely large
    number of resource types. <br>
    <br>
    Greg<br>
    <br>
    On 7/20/2011 6:58 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C05815212969CFA09@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.6082" name="GENERATOR">
      <div class="MsoNormal" dir="ltr"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
          COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi Greg,</span><!--?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /--><o:p></o:p></div>
      <div class="MsoNormal" dir="ltr"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><font
              color="#0000ff">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></font></font></font></div>
      <div class="MsoNormal" dir="ltr"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
          COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">As you mention
          back&nbsp;your email of 7/5/2011,&nbsp;I take the opportunity to bring
          back our answer&nbsp;with comments and questions raised<span
            class="596285513-20072011"> then</span>&nbsp;<span
            class="596285513-20072011">to&nbsp;</span><span
            class="596285513-20072011">move towards</span>&nbsp;a consensus
          (email of 7/8/2011).</span><o:p></o:p></div>
      <div class="MsoNormal" dir="ltr"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
          COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">These
          comments&nbsp;happened to be&nbsp;passed-by, let me then give this&nbsp;a
          second chance, please see attached the&nbsp;previously provided
          elements.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial" color="#0000ff"><span
            class="596285513-20072011">Regards,</span></font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="2">- p<span
              class="596285513-20072011">ierre</span></font></font></div>
      <br>
      <blockquote dir="ltr" style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" lang="fr"
          align="left">
          <hr tabindex="-1"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>De&nbsp;:</b>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>De
              la part de</b> Greg Bernstein<br>
            <b>Envoy&eacute;&nbsp;:</b> lundi 18 juillet 2011 16:39<br>
            <b>&Agrave;&nbsp;:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
            <b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [CCAMP] TR: New Version Notification for
            draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04.txt<br>
          </font><br>
        </div>
        Hi Pierre and CCAMPers, the analysis in Appendix A of the Peloso
        draft is still incorrect and does not seem based on the current
        WSON WG encoding draft <a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode/</a>
        published 3/14/2011, and continues to misrepresent the
        capabilities of the current WSON WG draft.&nbsp; An example of how
        the situation mentioned in Appendix A of Peloso-04 can be
        efficiently encoded with the current WG was given in an e-mail
        to the CCAMP list on 7/5/2011.<br>
        <br>
        Best Regards<br>
        <br>
        Greg B.<br>
        On 7/11/2011 9:03 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
        <blockquote
cite="mid:CCBFBB7025DF984494DEC3285C058152129694CC1D@FRMRSSXCHMBSA1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com"
          type="cite">
          <pre wrap="">Hi CCAMPer's,

Following the previous exchanges,
please find updated version of draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo-04</a>

Best regards to all,

Pierre
</pre>
          <br>
          <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
          <br>
          <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        <br>
        <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</pre>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</pre>
  </body>
</html>

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Hi Xihua,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>I read the draft a=
nd I
found it , as the first time, very interesting but a little unclear in some
points.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Chapter 2.2.1<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>You say that bound=
ary
node =A1=B0could=A1=B1 not determine which kind of ODUk FA-LSP should be tr=
iggered but
you do not put any brief explanation of that. I think for completeness some
words should be usefull.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Chapter 3.2.1 <o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Not clear the sent=
ence
about L bit : MUST be included vs. SHOULD be included . I suppose you mean
SHOULD not be included , Correct ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Chapter 3.2.3<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>In chapter 3.2 you
mention the possibility by ERBO to signal : FA nodes end points, and FA/com=
ponent
link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Is the signal type
sub-object devoted to this second scope ? I f yes, why named it explicitly =
(e.g.
FA signal type ) and not just signal type , that is a little misleading. I
would avoid the terms sub-layers already discusse in the mailing list since
there is a different terminology and meaning for that in ITU. Let=A1=AFs sa=
y level
multiplexing or something along this lines.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Chapter 3.2.5<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Not clear the sent=
ence
related to ERO : =A1=B0If it is necessary , it must also extract the server
layer/sub-layer routing information form ERO based on a pair of node. =A1=
=B0 Could
you clarify . <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Chapter 3.3.1 and =
others
:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>L bit field : agai=
n the
is the sentence Must be excluded vs Should be avoided . I do not believe a =
good
idead permit anyway to use one resource that I=A1=AFm considering to be exc=
luded . I
mean: it implies in case the SHOULD usage an interworking problem, right ?<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> mercoled=A8=AC 20 l=
uglio 2011
6.15<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] I-D Act=
ion:
draft-fuxh-ccamp-boundary-explicit-control-ext-03.txt</span></font><o:p></o=
:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DS=
imSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'>Hi A=
ll,</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'>We updated this dr=
aft. </span></font><br>
<font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'>We added some new
sections, suchs as the &quot;requirement identification&quot; and
&quot;boundary nodes determination mechanism&quot;.</span></font> <br>
<font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'>Some content are r=
elated
to OTN multi-layer scenarios.</span></font> <br>
<font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'>If you review and =
have
some comments, pls let us know.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri'>Xihua</span></font=
> <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
 style=3D'width:100.0%'>
 <tr>
  <td width=3D"35%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>internet-drafts@ietf.org</=
span></font></b><font
  size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:san=
s-serif'> </span></font><br>
  <font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=
=C8=CB</span></font><font
  size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:san=
s-serif'>:
  &nbsp;i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
  <p><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-f=
amily:
  sans-serif'>2011-07-08 </span></font><font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CF=C2=CE=E7</span></font><font size=3D1 face=
=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> 07:54</span></font> <o:=
p></o:p></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D1 cellpadding=3D0>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop bgcolor=3Dwhite style=3D'background:white;padding:.75p=
t .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font s=
ize=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=C7=EB=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span></font><font
    size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;=
font-family:
    sans-serif'> </span></font><font size=3D1><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-size:
    7.5pt'>=B8=F8</span></font><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=
=3D'font-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
    internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D"64%" valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt'>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"
   style=3D'width:100.0%'>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=
=C8=CB</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>i-d-announce@ietf.org</span></font> <o:p>=
</o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright style=3D'text-align:right'><font siz=
e=3D1
    face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
    7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>I-D Action:
    draft-fuxh-ccamp-boundary-explicit-control-ext-03.txt</span></font><o:p=
></o:p></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0>
   <tr>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3DS=
imSun><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><tt><font face=3DSimSun>A New Internet-Draft is available fro=
m the
on-line Internet-Drafts directories.</font></tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
Title </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Couri=
er New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
: RSVP-TE Extension for MRN/MLN Application</tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
Author(s) </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"C=
ourier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
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"'>&nbsp;</span></font>Xiaoli
Huo</tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
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"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
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</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
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</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
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Filename </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Co=
urier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
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</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
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draft-fuxh-ccamp-boundary-explicit-control-ext-03.txt</tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
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</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
Pages </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Couri=
er New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
: 16</tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
Date </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courie=
r New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>
</tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>&nbsp;</span></font>:
2011-07-08</tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
[RFC5212] defines a Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networks (MRN/MLN).</tt><b=
r>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
[RFC4206] introduces a region boundary determination algorithm and a</tt><b=
r>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
Hierarchy LSP (H-LSP) creation method. </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New">=
<span
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>However, in some
scenarios,</tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
there must be some additional information to facilitate hierarchy LSP</tt><=
br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&n=
bsp;</span></font>
creation. </tt><tt><font face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-family:"C=
ourier New"'>&nbsp;</span></font>This
document extends RSVP-TE to meet this requirement.</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fuxh-ccam=
p-boundary-explicit-control-ext-03.txt</font></tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP=
 at:</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</font></tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:</font></tt=
><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fuxh-ccamp=
-boundary-explicit-control-ext-03.txt</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>_______________________________________________</fo=
nt></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>I-D-Announce mailing list</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>I-D-Announce@ietf.org</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce<=
/font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>Internet-Draft directories:
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3DSimSun>or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt</font>=
</tt><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--_000_F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D817855D99FRMRSSXCHMBSB1d_--

From gregb@grotto-networking.com  Wed Jul 20 08:05:01 2011
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Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 08:04:49 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
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I think this is more a question to the OSPF WG.
Are you asking when an LSA gets updated? They get updated when a newer 
one is received. By newer one that means one with the same "LSA instance 
number". Another top level TLV wouldn't help here  since updates are not 
based on TLVs, but on LSAs (OSPF folks please chime in).

Note that the the link state database (LSDB) is just a collection of 
LSAs.  Hence the way to get finer granularity in your updates is to use 
more "LSA instances".

Do you have a specific example in mind that can make this discussion 
more concrete?  If an optical node undergoes an in-service update 
(hot-swap) then it will want to send out LSAs reflecting this change. If 
the changes need to replace existing information in the LSDB then the 
same "LSA instance" numbers should be used to force the change. If the 
information is supplemental then new "LSA instance" numbers can be used.

Greg
On 7/20/2011 7:15 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> The reason we are proposing a change, is that with current WG solution the updating process is not detailed, and leaves this in an implementation dependant interpretation, as is also the composition of each instance of the LSA. I would rather have a solution that specifies that as I see this as a facilitator for interoperability and commonality. Otherwise the WG believes that having a specified process of updates is not required.
> My opinion on that is that in case the cost is low, let it be specified.
> Using multiple type of top-level TLV is a way to formalize that, there can be alternative approachs, but if there is no constraint in using those, why not exploring this path, as long as nothing else is proposed?
>
> Regards,
>
> - pierre
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Greg Bernstein
> Envoyé : mercredi 13 juillet 2011 22:53
> À : ccamp@ietf.org
> Objet : Re: [CCAMP] Change 1: Introduction of resource pool entity (was Re: Moving the WSON discussion forward)
>
> Pierre, as previously stated multiple instances in OSPF-TE (RFC3630) allow one to decrease the flooding size for dynamic information. As RFC3630 indicates: "The Instance field is an arbitrary value used to maintain multiple Traffic Engineering LSAs.  A maximum of 16777216 Traffic Engineering LSAs may be sourced by a single system.". This number of instances should be more than enough by far for all WSON applications.  Hence the proposed change is not needed.
>
> Best Regards
> Greg
>
> On 7/13/2011 8:44 AM, PELOSO, PIERRE (PIERRE) wrote:
>> Hi Greg and CCAMPer's,
>>
>> As in the preceding mail which summarized the 3 main changes proposed
>> by draft-peloso-ccamp-wson-ospf-oeo, become too big to be easily read through, I've been splitting the 3 points in 3 different threads, this one deals with change 1:
>> Introduction of the Resource Pool entity inside the model, which allows the definition of several resource entites per node independantly floodable.
>> MOTIVATION: to decrease the size of flooding upon LSP changes (setup or tear down). (Resource Pool = group of resource blocks with same connectivity constraints).
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>> ==snip==
>


-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:53:57 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <OF70CAC504.8E0F7131-ON482578CE.004475DF-482578CF.00526308@zte.com.cn>
To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn, "'BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)'" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R:  OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info
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Hi Xihua,

=20

For your following understanding, I have to clarify something because =
maybe
some people have your same understanding.

=20

If you participated in the IETF 79th and IETF 80th meetings, you should =
know
that =A1=B0multi-stage muxing=A1=B1 was replaced by =A1=B0multiplexing =
hierarchy=A1=B1 in
the FWK document (ie., your statement =A1=B0But framework document tries =
to
avoid this terminology=A1=B1 is not the fact).=20

=20

Of course, we should make the OSPF and RSVP drafts align with these =
changes.

=20

=20



=20

=20



=20

=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

1. Info and OSPF document mention multi-stage. But framework document =
tries
to avoid this terminology.

=20

=20

=20

Thanks
=20
Fatai

=20

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
Sent: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C216=C8=D5 23:00
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: 'CCAMP'
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R: OTN open issues for OTN framework and OTN Info

=20


Hi Sergio,=20

You wrote "SB> You misunderstood the problem : how can you signal TS
granularity for an HO trail , when no structured has been made ??? The =
TS
granularity is present but not for the signal on the server trail."=20
I think you may refer to the section "4.1. Tributary Slot type" in info
document. This requirement in this email is still not clear for me. =
Could
you give me a further clarification?=20

When I read through info and frame document. I found there are some
inconsistent descriptions.=20
1. Info and OSPF document mention multi-stage. But framework document =
tries
to avoid this terminology.=20
2. OSPF document support to bundle links with different multiplexing
hierarchies, but this isn't described in framework and info document.=20

=20



Xihua=20




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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Xihua,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>For your following =
understanding, I have to clarify something because maybe some people =
have your same understanding.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>If you participated in the =
IETF 79<sup>th</sup> and IETF 80<sup>th</sup> meetings, you should know =
that =A1=B0<span style=3D'color:#0000CC'>multi-stage muxing</span>=A1=B1 =
was replaced by =A1=B0<span style=3D'color:red'>multiplexing =
hierarchy</span>=A1=B1 in the FWK document (ie., your statement =
=A1=B0</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>But framework document =
tries to avoid this terminology=A1=B1 is not the fact)</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Of course, we should make =
the OSPF and RSVP drafts align with these =
changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><img width=3D592 =
height=3D206 id=3D"Picture_x0020_5" =
src=3D"cid:image006.jpg@01CC47B6.045570B0"></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><img width=3D625 =
height=3D67 id=3D"Picture_x0020_10" =
src=3D"cid:image007.jpg@01CC47B6.045570B0"></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1. Info and OSPF document =
mention multi-stage. But framework document tries to avoid this =
terminology.</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai</s=
pan><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>fu.xihua@zte.com.cn<br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=C4=EA</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=D4=C2</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>16</span><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
23:00<br><b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] R: OTN open issues for OTN =
framework and OTN Info<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi Sergio,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <br><br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>You wrote &quot;<span =
style=3D'color:blue'>SB&gt; You misunderstood the problem : how can you =
signal TS granularity for an HO trail , when no structured has been made =
??? The TS granularity is present but not for the signal on the server =
trail.&quot;</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US> <br></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think you =
may refer to the section &quot;4.1. Tributary Slot type&quot; in info =
document. This requirement in this email is still not clear for me. =
Could you give me a further clarification?</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
<br><br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>When I read through info =
and frame document. I found there are some inconsistent descriptions. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1. Info and OSPF document =
mention multi-stage. But framework document tries to avoid this =
terminology.</span><span lang=3DEN-US> <br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>2. OSPF document support to =
bundle links with different multiplexing hierarchies, but this isn't =
described in framework and info document.</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br><br></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Xihua</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>=

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Thread-Topic: Updated Agenda for IETF81
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>
To: "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Updated Agenda for IETF81
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Here's the updated agenda:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/81/agenda/ccamp.htm

Be sure to send us your presentations by end of the day, Sunday, July
24th.

Deborah and Lou

From jdrake@juniper.net  Thu Jul 21 10:59:13 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:58:47 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Fatai,

I have some question on this draft, some of which I have asked you before:


1)      Why isn't Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft, used inste=
ad of the four bit ODUj field?

2)      Why is tributary slot size included?  Will it not change hop-by-hop=
, as the tributary slot size of each hop's underlying UDUk/OTUk link can ta=
ke on one of two different values?  I.e., I don't think having an single en=
d-to-end tributary slot size makes sense.

3)      Why is the OD(T)Uk  field needed?  As with 2), above, the value of =
k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-b=
y-hop.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of F=
atai Zhang
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM
To: 'CCAMP'
Subject: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

Hi all,

The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard tim=
e.

We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged=
 draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not goin=
g to summarize what we have achieved, :).

Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active exp=
erts.

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt


Thanks

Fatai


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fata=
i,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draft, s=
ome of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 le=
vel1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn&#8217;t Signal Type, defi=
ned in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj field?<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt=
 "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![=
endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot=
 size included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot =
size of each hop&#8217;s underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two d=
ifferent values?&nbsp; I.e., I don&#8217;t think having an single end-to-en=
d tributary slot size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoList=
Paragraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !suppo=
rtLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-=
list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)Uk &nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2),=
 above, the value of k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical L=
SP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft st=
yle=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Than=
ks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-al=
ign:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal a=
lign=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0=
in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pad=
ding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-ali=
gn:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On B=
ehalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM<br=
><b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling dra=
ft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dl=
eft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draf=
t has been submitted after quite long hard time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would like to re=
quest all of you to have a careful review on this merged draft and then sha=
re your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to summarize what=
 we have achieved, </span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingd=
ings'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks to all the p=
eople including the authors, contributors and active experts.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><a hre=
f=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt">h=
ttp://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0p=
t'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, Mohit Misra <mmisra@infinera.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Hi,

The use of "implicit H-LSP" could be problematic as far as use of explicit =
routing is concerned.  In explicit routing case we need a way to specify  o=
rigination point of implicit-HLSP(s), i.e. the ODU layer(s) and the time sl=
ots.

One way to specify the origination point in explicit route is to use a new =
label format which captures hierarchy details including time slots. =20

The multi-stage label can be used to instantiate "implicit H-LSP(s)" option=
ally and to  address the above case.

Thanks
Rajan & Khuzema

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 7:55 AM
To: Rajan Rao
Cc: John E Drake; CCAMP; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Khuzema Pithewan; Biao Lu; M=
ohit Misra
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage)

Rajan,
	See below for in-line responses.

On 7/13/2011 6:22 AM, Rajan Rao wrote:
> Lou,
>=20
> The 4th LSP type (implicit-link LSP) is not very clear. This seems
> to represent the service-LSP which induces implicit H-LSPs (type #3). In
> which case this should be a regular LSP (type#1) capable of inducing type=
#3.

Well, in *theory* I agree there should be minimal difference between a
regular LSP and an implicit (link) LSP.  I think the degree of
difference will come down to the specific mechanism we define.

At this stage, where we are still don't have consensus on requirements,
I think we need to differentiate the two.

>=20
> We would like to retain "implicit-link" definition you had in your
> email earlier. To clarify, the "implicit-link" can have data plane
> representation with or without control plane representation (LSP).

If there is a one-to-one correspondence between the control plane and
the link, it is a standard H-LSP.

> In case of no control plane representation, the bandwidth of
> implicit-link is managed on the parent Te-Link.

And I was referring to the lower-level of the hierarchy in the
data-plane as an "implicit H-LSP"

Also, as has been highlighted by the other discussions, there's more to
consider than just bandwidth.

>=20
>=20
> The definition of "implicit-link" is same as you had before as follows:
>=20
> "
> 1) "implicit-link"
>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>     may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
> "
>=20
> To clarify, the multi-stage label proposed in draft-khuzema refers
> to "implicit-link" creation without implicit H-LSPs.
>=20

I must not have been clear in my previous mail.  An "implicit-link" (as
defined) is just a logical entity, i.e., a concept. An "implicit H-LSP"
(as defined) refers to the level of the hierarchy in the data-plane that
instantiates an implicit-link.  So, using these terms, draft-khuzema
refers to implicit-links that result in implicit H-LSPs.

Lou

> Thanks
> Rajan, Ashok & Khuzema.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=
 Lou Berger
> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:58 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs=
 multi stage)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 7/8/2011 5:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> ...
>>> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
>>> and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-
>>> LSPs.
>>>
>>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>>>
>>> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>>>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>>>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>>>
>>> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>>>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>>>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>>>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> JD: 1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and
> Given that 1 is a "logical entity", I suspect you mean (and I agree)
> that 3) is whay you were calling an intermediate switching stage LSP.
>=20
>> 2) is what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?
>=20
> agreed.
>=20
> So this leaves us with 4 types of LSPs.
>=20
> (old) LSPs
>       LSPs that use explicit links
> (old) H-LSPs
>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>       explicitly controlled
>=20
> (new) Implicit H-LSP
>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>       controlled via implicit mechanisms
> (new) implicit-link LSP
>       LSPs that use / trigger Implicit H-LSPs
>=20
> Comments?
>=20
> Lou
>=20
>>
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Thu Jul 21 21:50:31 2011
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:50:21 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Hi John,

=20

Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Thanks
=20
Fatai

=20

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C222=C8=D5 1:59
To: Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

=20

Fatai,

=20

I have some question on this draft, some of which I have asked you =
before:

=20

1)      Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft, =
used
instead of the four bit ODUj field?

[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this field =
to 8
bits.

=20

2)      Why is tributary slot size included?  Will it not change =
hop-by-hop,
as the tributary slot size of each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link =
can take
on one of two different values?  I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an =
single
end-to-end tributary slot size makes sense.=20

[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actually, =
label
information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, =
tributary
slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no =
problem.
In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot size (1.25G =
or
2.5G).

=20

3)      Why is the OD(T)Uk  field needed?  As with 2), above, the value =
of k
for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change
hop-by-hop.

[Fatai] As explained above, label information is link/span scope, so =
there
is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop.=20

=20

=20

Thanks,

=20

John

=20

Sent from my iPhone

=20

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
Fatai Zhang
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM
To: 'CCAMP'
Subject: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

=20

Hi all,

=20

The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard
time.

=20

We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this =
merged
draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not =
going
to summarize what we have achieved, J.

=20

Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active
experts.

=20

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt

=20

=20

Thanks
=20
Fatai

=20


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks =
for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>22</span><sp=
an =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
1:59<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] =
the merged OTN signaling draft =
uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this =
draft, some of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, =
defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj =
field?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite =
flexible to extend this field to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot size =
included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot =
size of each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two =
different values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an single =
end-to-end tributary slot size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] =
Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actually, label =
information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, =
tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is =
no problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary =
slot size (1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)Uk &nbsp;field =
needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the underlying =
ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change =
hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As explained above, label information =
is link/span scope, so there is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) =
changes hop by hop. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN =
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The =
merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard =
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would =
like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged draft =
and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to =
summarize what we have achieved, </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks =
to all the people including the authors, contributors and active =
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.t=
xt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</=
a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>=

--Boundary_(ID_uIS/qwdsrLaOuj/CrkasPQ)--

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul 22 05:00:20 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 04:59:30 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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--_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A99A7EDAEMBX01HQjnprn_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fatai,

Usually fields that change hop-by-hop are explicitly identified.

If it is the case that tributary slot size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are =
intended to change hop-by-hop, then these fields are completely redundant a=
nd should be removed.

The underlying TE link is explicitly identified in the signaling message an=
d hence its tributary slot size and its link capacity are known.  Further, =
including these fields introduces additional error cases caused by a mismat=
ch between the values in these fields and the known values of the underlyin=
g TE link.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:50 PM
To: John E Drake; 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

Hi John,

Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.






Thanks

Fatai

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: 2011=1B$BG/=1B(B7=1B$B7n=1B(B22=1B$BF|=1B(B 1:59
To: Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

Fatai,

I have some question on this draft, some of which I have asked you before:


1)      Why isn=1B$B!G=1B(Bt Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft,=
 used instead of the four bit ODUj field?
[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this field to 8=
 bits.


2)      Why is tributary slot size included?  Will it not change hop-by-hop=
, as the tributary slot size of each hop=1B$B!G=1B(Bs underlying UDUk/OTUk =
link can take on one of two different values?  I.e., I don=1B$B!G=1B(Bt thi=
nk having an single end-to-end tributary slot size makes sense.
[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actually, label=
 information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, tributar=
y slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no problem.=
  In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot size (1.25G o=
r 2.5G).


3)      Why is the OD(T)Uk  field needed?  As with 2), above, the value of =
k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-b=
y-hop.
[Fatai] As explained above, label information is link/span scope, so there =
is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop.


Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of F=
atai Zhang
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM
To: 'CCAMP'
Subject: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded

Hi all,

The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard tim=
e.

We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged=
 draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not goin=
g to summarize what we have achieved, :).

Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and active exp=
erts.

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt


Thanks

Fatai


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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fata=
i,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-hop=
 are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the=
 case that tributary slot size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to =
change hop-by-hop, then </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>these fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicitly identified in =
the signaling message and hence its tributary slot size and its link capaci=
ty are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces additional e=
rror cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fields and the =
known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left=
:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none=
;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfa=
tai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:50 PM<br><b>To:<=
/b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN sig=
naling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for your com=
ments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in =
0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E=
 Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=
=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=1B$BG/=1B(B</span><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=1B$B7n=1B(=
B</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>=
22</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=
=1B$BF|=1B(B</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'> 1:59<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F4=
97D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this=
 draft, some of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-l=
ist:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "T=
imes New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![end=
if]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=1B$B!G=1B(Bt Sig=
nal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit OD=
Uj field?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this =
field to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph st=
yle=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'=
>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>Why is tributary slot size included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by=
-hop, as the tributary slot size of each hop=1B$B!G=1B(Bs underlying UDUk/O=
TUk link can take on one of two different values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=1B$B!G=
=1B(Bt think having an single end-to-end tributary slot size makes sense. <=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>=
[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actually, label=
 information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, tributar=
y slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no problem.=
 &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot size (1.=
25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=
=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)=
<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'>Why is the OD(T)Uk &nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the val=
ue of k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change=
 hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft st=
yle=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As explain=
ed above, label information is link/span scope, so there is no problem when=
 ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D=
'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:=
left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;paddin=
g:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4D=
F 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 07, 201=
1 8:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN s=
ignaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The merged OTN sig=
naling draft has been submitted after quite long hard time.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would=
 like to request all of you to have a careful review on this merged draft a=
nd then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to sum=
marize what we have achieved, </span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:Wingdings'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks t=
o all the people including the authors, contributors and active experts.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.=
0pt'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g70=
9-08.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.t=
xt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A99A7EDAEMBX01HQjnprn_--

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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:18:30 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Subject: [CCAMP] R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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uation'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>TS granularity is =
a
paramenter discussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and needed informati=
on
for signalling and routing. This is why is explicitly present as needed
information in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Encoding draft is =
the
mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an essenti=
al
parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces and permit&nbsp; end
nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. Moreover , there is=
 the
auto-negotiation and his CP relationship that is one of the open point that
again could require as mandatory to have TS gran. As signalling parameter (=
and
in certain cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"MS PGothic"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic=
"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.00<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"MS PGothic=
"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic"'><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-=
hop
are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the case that tributary s=
lot
size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to change hop-by-hop, then th=
ese
fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicit=
ly
identified in the signaling message and hence its tributary slot size and i=
ts
link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces
additional error cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fie=
lds
and the known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Fatai Zhang
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 21, 201=
1 9:50
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br=
>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> John E Drake
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 2011</span></font><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>7</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>22</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
1:59<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draft=
, some
of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp; </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>Why
isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of t=
he four
bit ODUj field?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this fi=
eld
to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp; </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>Why
is tributary slot size included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as th=
e
tributary slot size of each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take o=
n one of
two different values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-t=
o-end
tributary slot size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actuall=
y,
label information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so,
tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no
problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot =
size
(1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp; </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>Why
is the OD(T)<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Uk</st1:=
place></st1:country-region>
&nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the underly=
ing
ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As exp=
lained
above, label information is link/span scope, so there is no problem when
ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span></font><font size=3D2><=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Beha=
lf Of </span></b>Fatai
Zhang<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 07, 201=
1 8:23
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [CCAMP] the merged =
OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long =
hard
time.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on thi=
s
merged draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am no=
t
going to summarize what we have achieved, </span></font><font size=3D3
face=3DWingdings><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:W=
ingdings'>J</span></font><font
size=3D3><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and ac=
tive
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt=
">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--_000_F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D81785639AFRMRSSXCHMBSB1d_--

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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:44:48 -0700
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comm=
ents inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.=
0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel=
-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> J=
ohn E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP=
] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:blue'>TS granularity is a paramenter discussed a lot when we wrot=
e reaquireemtns and needed information for signalling and routing. This is =
why is explicitly present as needed information in the info draft .<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just =
because at one time &nbsp;it was thought to be needed does not mean that up=
on reflection it is still needed, and for the record, ever since January 20=
10 I have been asking why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Encodi=
ng draft is the mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granulari=
ty is an essential parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces an=
d permit&nbsp; end nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to specify tributary slot size fo=
r a hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inherits the tributary slot =
size(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which it is routed, and as F=
atai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can change hop-by-hop<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";col=
or:blue'>Moreover , there is the auto-negotiation and his CP relationship t=
hat is one of the open point that again could require as mandatory to have =
TS gran. As signalling parameter (and in certain cases also for routing) .<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am=
 sorry, but I am having trouble understanding this sentence<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue=
'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNorma=
l align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-=
size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic","sans-serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"10=
0%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'=
text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org] <b>Per conto di </b>John E Drake<br><b>Inviato:</b> vene=
rd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.00<br><b>A:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Ogget=
to:</b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded</span><span lan=
g=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic","sans-serif"'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-al=
ign:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-hop are explicitly identifi=
ed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the case that tributary slo=
t size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to change hop-by-hop, then =
these fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicitly identified in the=
 signaling message and hence its tributary slot size and its link capacity =
are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces additional erro=
r cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fields and the kno=
wn values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Tha=
nks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my=
 iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'borde=
r:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div st=
yle=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in=
'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zha=
ng [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 =
9:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] =
the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>T=
hanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;paddi=
ng:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align=
:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</=
span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=
=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>7</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=
=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'>22</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimS=
un'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif"'> 1:59<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [C=
CAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this d=
raft, some of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Ti=
mes New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endi=
f]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Typ=
e, defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj fiel=
d?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0p=
t'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this field t=
o 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'=
text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<spa=
n style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </s=
pan></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Why is tributary slot size included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, a=
s the tributary slot size of each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can =
take on one of two different values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having =
an single end-to-end tributary slot size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean =
label information should be end-to-end? Actually, label information is link=
/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, tributary slot type (1.25G o=
r 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no problem. &nbsp;In addition, =
label allocation depends on the tributary slot size (1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25=
in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:=
7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></spa=
n><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)=
Uk &nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the unde=
rlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:le=
ft'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As explained above, label info=
rmation is link/span scope, so there is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H=
-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'te=
xt-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dle=
ft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div s=
tyle=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'=
><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0p=
t 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'>=
<b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:=
</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif=
"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM<br><b>To:</=
b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft upload=
ed<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has bee=
n submitted after quite long hard time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would like to request all=
 of you to have a careful review on this merged draft and then share your c=
omments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to summarize what we have =
achieved, </span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</=
span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people inc=
luding the authors, contributors and active experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><a href=3D"http=
://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt">http://www=
.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'=
>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:51:09 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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<body lang=3DIT link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punct=
uation'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>In line<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>SERGIO BELOTTI</span></font=
></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>ALCATEL-LUCENT</span></font><font color=3D=
blue><span
style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Terrestrial System Architect</span>=
</font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Optics Portfolio Evolution</span></=
font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy<=
/span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>T: +39 0396863033</span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple;font-weight:bold'>Sergio.Belotti@alc=
atel-lucent.com</span></font></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
 John E
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.45<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> BELOTTI, SERGIO
(SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 22, 2011 =
5:19
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] the merg=
ed OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>TS granularity is =
a
paramenter discussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and needed informati=
on
for signalling and routing. This is why is explicitly present as needed
information in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just because at on=
e time
&nbsp;it was thought to be needed does not mean that upon reflection it is
still needed, and for the record, ever since January 2010 I have been askin=
g
why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Encoding draft is =
the
mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an essenti=
al
parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces and permit&nbsp; end
nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. </span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to sp=
ecify
tributary slot size for a hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inheri=
ts
the tributary slot size(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which it =
is
routed, and as Fatai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can change
hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Moreover , there i=
s the
auto-negotiation and his CP relationship that is one of the open point that
again could require as mandatory to have TS gran. As signalling parameter (=
and
in certain cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am sorry, but I am hav=
ing
trouble understanding this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>SB&gt; This why yo=
u
probably did not understand the content above<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"MS PGothic"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic=
"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.00<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"MS PGothic=
"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic"'><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-=
hop
are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the case that tributary s=
lot
size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to change hop-by-hop, then th=
ese
fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicit=
ly
identified in the signaling message and hence its tributary slot size and i=
ts
link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces
additional error cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fie=
lds
and the known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Fatai Zhang
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 21, 201=
1 9:50
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br=
>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> John E Drake
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 2011</span></font><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>7</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>22</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
1:59<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draft=
, some
of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal=
 Type,
defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj field?<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this fi=
eld
to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot=
 size
included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot size o=
f
each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two different
values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-to-end tributar=
y slot
size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actuall=
y,
label information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so,
tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no
problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot =
size
(1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)<st1:=
country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Uk</st1:place></st1:country-region> &nbs=
p;field
needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the underlying ODUk/OTU=
k
link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As exp=
lained
above, label information is link/span scope, so there is no problem when
ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span></font><font size=3D2><=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Beha=
lf Of </span></b>Fatai
Zhang<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 07, 201=
1 8:23
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [CCAMP] the merged =
OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long =
hard
time.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on thi=
s
merged draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am no=
t
going to summarize what we have achieved, </span></font><font size=3D3
face=3DWingdings><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:W=
ingdings'>J</span></font><font
size=3D3><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and ac=
tive
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt=
">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--_000_F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D8178563D4FRMRSSXCHMBSB1d_--

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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:01:01 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Serg=
io,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You did not actually address any of =
my three points;&nbsp; your one comment is an example of the usage of the w=
ord =A1=AEsmug=A1=AF.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:=
left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;bor=
der-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'bor=
der:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (S=
ERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
July 22, 2011 5:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang;=
 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploa=
ded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft styl=
e=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blu=
e'>In line<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><div><p><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>SERGIO BELOTTI</span></b><span =
lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DIT st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>ALC=
ATEL-LUCENT</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><span la=
ng=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:p=
urple'>Terrestrial System Architect</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:bl=
ue'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif";color:purple'>Optics Portfolio Evolution</span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>via Tr=
ento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:bl=
ue'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif";color:purple'>T: +39 0396863033</span><span lang=3DIT styl=
e=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucen=
t.com</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><=
div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"1=
00%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D=
'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net] <br><b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.45<br><b>A:</b> BE=
LOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</b=
> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded</span><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DIT=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:s=
olid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;b=
order-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mai=
lto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 20=
11 5:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br=
><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-a=
lign:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>TS granularity is a paramenter d=
iscussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and needed information for signa=
lling and routing. This is why is explicitly present as needed information =
in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just because at one time &nbsp;it was thought to be n=
eeded does not mean that upon reflection it is still needed, and for the re=
cord, ever since January 2010 I have been asking why it is needed in signal=
ing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif";color:blue'>Encoding draft is the mirror of what discussed before =
. &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an essential parameter to be configured in=
 the physical interfaces and permit&nbsp; end nodes of an FA to understand =
which TS&nbsp; to be used. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to spe=
cify tributary slot size for a hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP i=
nherits the tributary slot size(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over w=
hich it is routed, and as Fatai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can=
 change hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Moreover , there is the auto-negotiatio=
n and his CP relationship that is one of the open point that again could re=
quire as mandatory to have TS gran. As signalling parameter (and in certain=
 cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am sorry, but I am having trouble understanding th=
is sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>SB&gt; This why=
 you probably did not understand the content above<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic","sans-serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" ali=
gn=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-al=
ign:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounce=
s@ietf.org] <b>Per conto di </b>John E Drake<br><b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=
=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.00<br><b>A:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</=
b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded</span><span lang=3DI=
T style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic","sans-serif"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:l=
eft'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-hop are explicitly identified.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the case that tributary slot s=
ize and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to change hop-by-hop, then the=
se fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicitly identified in the si=
gnaling message and hence its tributary slot size and its link capacity are=
 known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces additional error c=
ases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fields and the known =
values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text=
-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iP=
hone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:n=
one;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhan=
g [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 9=
:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] t=
he merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Th=
anks for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;paddin=
g:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:=
left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'=
>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</s=
pan><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA=
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7=
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=
=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>22</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'=
>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"'> 1:59<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAM=
P] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draf=
t, some of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, d=
efined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj field?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[=
Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this field to 8 =
bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text=
-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span st=
yle=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>=
</span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why =
is tributary slot size included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as th=
e tributary slot size of each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take=
 on one of two different values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an s=
ingle end-to-end tributary slot size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean labe=
l information should be end-to-end? Actually, label information is link/spa=
n scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.=
5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no problem. &nbsp;In addition, labe=
l allocation depends on the tributary slot size (1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;m=
so-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0p=
t "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><!=
[endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)Uk &=
nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the underlyi=
ng ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As explained above, label informat=
ion is link/span scope, so there is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP=
) changes hop by hop. </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-a=
lign:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft s=
tyle=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sen=
t from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><di=
v><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>=
Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> '=
CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'=
text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has been sub=
mitted after quite long hard time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We would like to request all of y=
ou to have a careful review on this merged draft and then share your commen=
ts or suggestions freely, so I am not going to summarize what we have achie=
ved, </span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span>=
<span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people includin=
g the authors, contributors and active experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><a href=3D"http://ww=
w.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt">http://www.ietf=
.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Than=
ks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:52:18 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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<body lang=3DIT link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punct=
uation'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>For point 1) <o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>My sentence was no=
t a
justification of correctness but why TS is present in the encoding , since
encoding , as framework and info draft has been created, lead requirements =
and
information needed . <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Moreover, the fact=
 you
did not understand the explanations about the needs for this information si=
nce Juanuary
2010 does not automatically means that the information is useless .<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>For point 2 ) &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>In case you are in=
 the
condition to setup a service LSP over an infrastructure LSP at HO, you can =
deduce
TS granularity form auto-negotiation happened in the termination points of =
LSP.
In case no HO-LSP exist , TS can be deduce or by NMS configuration or by LM=
P providing
PT/TS exchanging or it has to be advertised by routing even is a link infor=
mation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>But TS granularity=
 has
to be signalled to allow automatic FA setup in the case FA has to be setup =
in a
mixed TS granularity scenarios , and if for example I=A1=AFm signalling ODU=
0 , with
mandatory TS=3D1.25.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>For point 3 ) this=
 is an
extract of G.798 , explaining auto-negotiation process happened in any
ODUkP/ODUj_X&nbsp; adapatation function, exchanging PT from which it can be
deduced TS granularity.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><b><font
size=3D3 face=3D"TimesNewRoman,Bold"><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:=
12.0pt;
font-family:"TimesNewRoman\,Bold";font-weight:bold'>PT</span></font></b><fo=
nt
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>: The function shall insert code &quot;0010 0001&quot; (ODU
multiplex structure supporting ODTUk.ts or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>ODTUk.ts and ODTUjk) into the PT byte position of the PSI
overhead as defined in clause 15.9.2.1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>of [ITU-T G.709] for k=3D4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>For k=3D2,3 the inserted PT code shall default to code =A1=
=B00010 0001=A1=B1.
This code may be replaced by<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>code =A1=B00010 0000=A1=B1 under control of the PT=3D21-to-P=
T=3D20
interworking process described hereafter.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>When MI AUTOpayloadtype is activated the function shall adap=
t a
PT21 supporting port to a PT20<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>structure.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>If the corresponding adaptation Sink provides the informatio=
n of
a PT=3D20 at the RI_ AcPT the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>function shall fall back to PT=3D20 under the following cond=
itions:
The MI_AUTOpayloadtype is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><b><font
size=3D2 face=3D"TimesNewRoman,Bold"><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;
font-family:"TimesNewRoman\,Bold";font-weight:bold'>Rec. ITU-T G.798 (10/20=
10) =A8C
Prepublished version </span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial'>262<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>true and the HO ODU source is either not provisioned for any
traffic signal structure, or the HO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>ODU2 source configured for one or more ODU1 signals to be ma=
pped
into TS1/TS5 and/or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>TS2/TS6 and/or TS3/TS7 and/or TS4/TS8, or the HO ODU3 source=
 is
configured to support one or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>more ODU1 signals mapped into TS1/TS17, TS2/TS18, TSi/TS16+I
and/or one or more ODU2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>signals mapped into TSa/TS16+a/TSb/TS16+b/TSc/TS16+c/TSd/TS1=
6+16
and no other ODU type<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>signals. In this case the function shall insert PT20 into th=
e
PSI positions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>In the case the ODU2 or ODU3 adaptation source is configured=
 for
either ODU0, or an ODUflex, or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>an ODU2e, or for an ODU1 in TSi/TSj with j&lt;&gt;4+i (for O=
DU2)
or j&lt;&gt;16+I (for ODU3) then PT21<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:n=
one'><font
size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:
TimesNewRoman'>is to be inserted. The inserted PT shall be reported at the
ODUkP/ODUj-21_A_So_RI_TrPT to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DTimesNewRoman><span lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>corresponding adaptati=
on
sink function and the ODUkP/ODUj-21_A_So_MI_TrPT.</span></font><font size=
=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:
Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks <o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sent from my PC <o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
 John E
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
15.01<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You did not actually address any o=
f my
three points;&nbsp; your one comment is an example of the usage of the word
=A1=AEsmug=A1=AF.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> BELOTTI, SERGIO
(SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 22, 2011 =
5:51
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] the merg=
ed OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>In line<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>SERGIO BELOTTI</span></font=
></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>ALCATEL-LUCENT</span></font><font color=3D=
blue><span
style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Terrestrial System Architect</span>=
</font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Optics Portfolio Evolution</span></=
font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy<=
/span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>T: +39 0396863033</span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple;font-weight:bold'>Sergio.Belotti@alc=
atel-lucent.com</span></font></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
 John E
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.45<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> BELOTTI, SERGIO
(SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 22, 2011 =
5:19
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] the merg=
ed OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>TS granularity is =
a
paramenter discussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and needed informati=
on
for signalling and routing. This is why is explicitly present as needed
information in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just because at on=
e time
&nbsp;it was thought to be needed does not mean that upon reflection it is
still needed, and for the record, ever since January 2010 I have been askin=
g
why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Encoding draft is =
the
mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an essenti=
al
parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces and permit&nbsp; end
nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. </span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to sp=
ecify
tributary slot size for a hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inheri=
ts
the tributary slot size(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which it =
is
routed, and as Fatai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can change
hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Moreover , there i=
s the
auto-negotiation and his CP relationship that is one of the open point that
again could require as mandatory to have TS gran. As signalling parameter (=
and
in certain cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am sorry, but I am hav=
ing
trouble understanding this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>SB&gt; This why yo=
u
probably did not understand the content above<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"MS PGothic"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic=
"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.00<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"MS PGothic=
"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic"'><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-=
hop
are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the case that tributary s=
lot
size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to change hop-by-hop, then th=
ese
fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicit=
ly
identified in the signaling message and hence its tributary slot size and i=
ts
link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces
additional error cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fie=
lds
and the known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Fatai Zhang
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 21, 201=
1 9:50
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br=
>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> John E Drake
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 2011</span></font><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>7</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>22</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
1:59<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draft=
, some
of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal=
 Type,
defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj field?<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this fi=
eld
to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot=
 size
included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot size o=
f
each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two different =
values?&nbsp;
I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-to-end tributary slot size ma=
kes
sense. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actuall=
y,
label information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so,
tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no
problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot =
size
(1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)<st1:=
country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Uk</st1:place></st1:country-region> &nbs=
p;field
needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the underlying ODUk/OTU=
k
link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As exp=
lained
above, label information is link/span scope, so there is no problem when
ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span></font><font size=3D2><=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Beha=
lf Of </span></b>Fatai
Zhang<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 07, 201=
1 8:23
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [CCAMP] the merged =
OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long =
hard
time.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on thi=
s
merged draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am no=
t
going to summarize what we have achieved, </span></font><font size=3D3
face=3DWingdings><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:W=
ingdings'>J</span></font><font
size=3D3><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and ac=
tive
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt=
">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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From lberger@labn.net  Fri Jul 22 07:13:05 2011
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:13:03 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, Mohit Misra <mmisra@infinera.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Guys,
	I'm sorry, I don't understand the point of your mail.

Is it:
1) definition related: to make a comment on the definition of "implicit
H-LSP"
2) requirements related: to highlight a new requirement/challenge
related to the control of "implicit H-LSPs" via "implicit-link LSPs"
3) solution related: to state a solution to a new requirement/challenge
related to the control of "implicit H-LSPs"
4) something else

BTW my intent on this particular thread was to keep the discussion
focused on definitions and requirements, not solutions.  We can move
onto solutions once we have agreement on terms and requirements.

Lou

On 7/21/2011 8:45 PM, Rajan Rao wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The use of "implicit H-LSP" could be problematic as far as use of
> explicit routing is concerned.  In explicit routing case we need a
> way to specify  origination point of implicit-HLSP(s), i.e. the ODU
> layer(s) and the time slots.
> 
> One way to specify the origination point in explicit route is to use
> a new label format which captures hierarchy details including time
> slots.
> 
> The multi-stage label can be used to instantiate "implicit H-LSP(s)"
> optionally and to  address the above case.
> 
> Thanks
> Rajan & Khuzema
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 7:55 AM
> To: Rajan Rao
> Cc: John E Drake; CCAMP; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Khuzema Pithewan; Biao Lu; Mohit Misra
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
> 
> Rajan,
> 	See below for in-line responses.
> 
> On 7/13/2011 6:22 AM, Rajan Rao wrote:
>> Lou,
>>
>> The 4th LSP type (implicit-link LSP) is not very clear. This seems
>> to represent the service-LSP which induces implicit H-LSPs (type #3). In
>> which case this should be a regular LSP (type#1) capable of inducing type#3.
> 
> Well, in *theory* I agree there should be minimal difference between a
> regular LSP and an implicit (link) LSP.  I think the degree of
> difference will come down to the specific mechanism we define.
> 
> At this stage, where we are still don't have consensus on requirements,
> I think we need to differentiate the two.
> 
>>
>> We would like to retain "implicit-link" definition you had in your
>> email earlier. To clarify, the "implicit-link" can have data plane
>> representation with or without control plane representation (LSP).
> 
> If there is a one-to-one correspondence between the control plane and
> the link, it is a standard H-LSP.
> 
>> In case of no control plane representation, the bandwidth of
>> implicit-link is managed on the parent Te-Link.
> 
> And I was referring to the lower-level of the hierarchy in the
> data-plane as an "implicit H-LSP"
> 
> Also, as has been highlighted by the other discussions, there's more to
> consider than just bandwidth.
> 
>>
>>
>> The definition of "implicit-link" is same as you had before as follows:
>>
>> "
>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>     may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>> "
>>
>> To clarify, the multi-stage label proposed in draft-khuzema refers
>> to "implicit-link" creation without implicit H-LSPs.
>>
> 
> I must not have been clear in my previous mail.  An "implicit-link" (as
> defined) is just a logical entity, i.e., a concept. An "implicit H-LSP"
> (as defined) refers to the level of the hierarchy in the data-plane that
> instantiates an implicit-link.  So, using these terms, draft-khuzema
> refers to implicit-links that result in implicit H-LSPs.
> 
> Lou
> 
>> Thanks
>> Rajan, Ashok & Khuzema.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger
>> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:58 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/8/2011 5:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> ...
>>>> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing H-LSP
>>>> and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit* links and H-
>>>> LSPs.
>>>>
>>>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>>>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>>>>
>>>> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>>>>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>>>>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>>>>
>>>> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>>>>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>>>>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>>>>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> JD: 1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and
>> Given that 1 is a "logical entity", I suspect you mean (and I agree)
>> that 3) is whay you were calling an intermediate switching stage LSP.
>>
>>> 2) is what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?
>>
>> agreed.
>>
>> So this leaves us with 4 types of LSPs.
>>
>> (old) LSPs
>>       LSPs that use explicit links
>> (old) H-LSPs
>>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>>       explicitly controlled
>>
>> (new) Implicit H-LSP
>>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>>       controlled via implicit mechanisms
>> (new) implicit-link LSP
>>       LSPs that use / trigger Implicit H-LSPs
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul 22 07:31:52 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:23:32 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Serg=
io,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Let me try again.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>I think we have all agreed to the following:<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>For an LSP established &nbsp;over a set of ODUk/OTUK =
links, the tributary slot size changes hop-by-hop and the proposed tributar=
y slot size carried in signaling changes hop-by-hop, thus there is no meani=
ng to the concept of an end-to-end tributary slot size for an LSP.&nbsp; <o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This has several ramifications which ap=
parently were not clear from my &nbsp;previous emails:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25=
in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:=
7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></spa=
n><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The proposed tri=
butary slot size carried in signaling is redundant, because the tributary s=
lot size of each underlying ODUk/OTUk link along the LSP=A1=AFs path is alr=
eady known to the endpoints of each hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
ListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !s=
upportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'=
mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Carrying redundant information is bad because one ha=
s to deal with the error cases in which the redundant information is contra=
dictory<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-inde=
nt:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=
=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></s=
pan></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Because=
 there is no meaning to the concept of an end-to-end tributary slot size fo=
r an LSP, there is no meaning to the concept of signaling a tributary slot =
size for an LSP to be established within a hierarchical LSP<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So, please explain to me in twenty five words or less t=
he positive marginal utility of carrying tributary slot size in signaling.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>*<b>All of the above</b>* applies to ca=
rrying ODUk/OTUk link capacity in signaling.&nbsp; &nbsp;Please provide the=
 same twenty word or less explanation of the positive marginal utility of c=
arrying ODUk/OTUk&nbsp; capacity in signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-=
align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPh=
one<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:no=
ne;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, S=
ERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Friday, July 22, 2011 6:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fata=
i Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling dra=
ft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dl=
eft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>For point 1) <o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>My sentence was not a=
 justification of correctness but why TS is present in the encoding , since=
 encoding , as framework and info draft has been created, lead requirements=
 and information needed . <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";co=
lor:blue'>Moreover, the fact you did not understand the explanations about =
the needs for this information since Juanuary 2010 does not automatically m=
eans that the information is useless .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";=
color:blue'>For point 2 ) &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:blue'>In case you are in the condition to setup a service LSP ove=
r an infrastructure LSP at HO, you can deduce TS granularity form auto-nego=
tiation happened in the termination points of LSP. In case no HO-LSP exist =
, TS can be deduce or by NMS configuration or by LMP providing PT/TS exchan=
ging or it has to be advertised by routing even is a link information.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>But TS granularity ha=
s to be signalled to allow automatic FA setup in the case FA has to be setu=
p in a mixed TS granularity scenarios , and if for example I=A1=AFm signall=
ing ODU0 , with mandatory TS=3D1.25.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";co=
lor:blue'>For point 3 ) this is an extract of G.798 , explaining auto-negot=
iation process happened in any ODUkP/ODUj_X&nbsp; adapatation function, exc=
hanging PT from which it can be deduced TS granularity.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><b>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRoman\,Bo=
ld"'>PT</span></b><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=
TimesNewRoman'>: The function shall insert code &quot;0010 0001&quot; (ODU =
multiplex structure supporting ODTUk.ts or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>ODTUk.ts =
and ODTUjk) into the PT byte position of the PSI overhead as defined in cla=
use 15.9.2.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>of [ITU-T G.709] for k=3D4.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text=
-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:T=
imesNewRoman'>For k=3D2,3 the inserted PT code shall default to code =A1=B0=
0010 0001=A1=B1. This code may be replaced by<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>code =
=A1=B00010 0000=A1=B1 under control of the PT=3D21-to-PT=3D20 interworking =
process described hereafter.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB s=
tyle=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>When MI AUTOpayloadtype=
 is activated the function shall adapt a PT21 supporting port to a PT20<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:lef=
t;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-fa=
mily:TimesNewRoman'>structure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal al=
ign=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB=
 style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>If the corresponding =
adaptation Sink provides the information of a PT=3D20 at the RI_ AcPT the<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:l=
eft;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:TimesNewRoman'>function shall fall back to PT=3D20 under the followi=
ng conditions: The MI_AUTOpayloadtype is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><b><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRoman\,Bold"'>=
Rec. ITU-T G.798 (10/2010) =A8C Prepublished version </span></b><span lang=
=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>262<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:le=
ft;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:TimesNewRoman'>true and the HO ODU source is either not provisioned f=
or any traffic signal structure, or the HO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>ODU2 sour=
ce configured for one or more ODU1 signals to be mapped into TS1/TS5 and/or=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align=
:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;fon=
t-family:TimesNewRoman'>TS2/TS6 and/or TS3/TS7 and/or TS4/TS8, or the HO OD=
U3 source is configured to support one or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>more ODU1 =
signals mapped into TS1/TS17, TS2/TS18, TSi/TS16+I and/or one or more ODU2<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:=
left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:TimesNewRoman'>signals mapped into TSa/TS16+a/TSb/TS16+b/TSc/TS16+c=
/TSd/TS16+16 and no other ODU type<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DE=
N-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>signals. In this =
case the function shall insert PT20 into the PSI positions.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autos=
pace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNe=
wRoman'>In the case the ODU2 or ODU3 adaptation source is configured for ei=
ther ODU0, or an ODUflex, or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB s=
tyle=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>an ODU2e, or for an ODU=
1 in TSi/TSj with j&lt;&gt;4+i (for ODU2) or j&lt;&gt;16+I (for ODU3) then =
PT21<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-a=
lign:left;text-autospace:none'><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
;font-family:TimesNewRoman'>is to be inserted. The inserted PT shall be rep=
orted at the ODUkP/ODUj-21_A_So_RI_TrPT to the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Time=
sNewRoman'>corresponding adaptation sink function and the ODUkP/ODUj-21_A_S=
o_MI_TrPT.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color=
:blue'>Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Sergio<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>sent from my PC <o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><spa=
n lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><hr size=3D2 widt=
h=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft st=
yle=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@j=
uniper.net] <br><b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 15.01<br><b>A:<=
/b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Ogget=
to:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded</span><span lan=
g=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lan=
g=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You =
did not actually address any of my three points;&nbsp; your one comment is =
an example of the usage of the word =A1=AEsmug=A1=AF.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;c=
olor:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal a=
lign=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0=
in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pad=
ding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-ali=
gn:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent=
.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E D=
rake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the m=
erged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>In line<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p><b><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>SE=
RGIO BELOTTI</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif";color:purple'>ALCATEL-LUCENT</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'col=
or:blue'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>Terrestrial System Architect</span><spa=
n lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>Optics Portfoli=
o Evolution</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif";color:purple'>via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy</span><span =
lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>T: +39 0396863033=
</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><b><span lang=3DIT =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>S=
ergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:b=
lue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'te=
xt-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimS=
un'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E =
Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lugli=
o 2011 14.45<br><b>A:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhan=
g; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft up=
loaded</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text=
-align:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft st=
yle=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent=
 from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><di=
v><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>=
Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc=
:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN sig=
naling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans=
-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span l=
ang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>TS g=
ranularity is a paramenter discussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and =
needed information for signalling and routing. This is why is explicitly pr=
esent as needed information in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just because at one tim=
e &nbsp;it was thought to be needed does not mean that upon reflection it i=
s still needed, and for the record, ever since January 2010 I have been ask=
ing why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Encoding draft is the mi=
rror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an essential=
 parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces and permit&nbsp; end=
 nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. </span><span lang=
=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD=
:&nbsp; How is it possible to specify tributary slot size for a hierarchica=
l LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inherits the tributary slot size(s) of the =
underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which it is routed, and as Fatai indicates&=
nbsp; the tributary slot size can change hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Moreov=
er , there is the auto-negotiation and his CP relationship that is one of t=
he open point that again could require as mandatory to have TS gran. As sig=
nalling parameter (and in certain cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am sorry, but I a=
m having trouble understanding this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif";color:blue'>SB&gt; This why you probably did not understand the cont=
ent above<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";col=
or:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-G=
B style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><sp=
an lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic","sans-serif=
"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>Per conto di </b>John E =
Drake<br><b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.00<br><b>A:</b> Fat=
ai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling d=
raft uploaded</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"=
MS PGothic","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-b=
y-hop are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it i=
s the case that tributary slot size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intende=
d to change hop-by-hop, then these fields are completely redundant and shou=
ld be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is=
 explicitly identified in the signaling message and hence its tributary slo=
t size and its link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fiel=
ds introduces additional error cases caused by a mismatch between the value=
s in these fields and the known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F4=
97D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &=
nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.=
0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:=
</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br=
><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-=
align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line b=
elow.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fa=
tai<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border=
-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal al=
ign=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@junipe=
r.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>22</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 1:59<br><b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAM=
P'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'=
text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I =
have some question on this draft, some of which I have asked you before:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=
=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)=
<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft, used inst=
ead of the four bit ODUj field?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite fl=
exible to extend this field to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><!=
[if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span sty=
le=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot size included?&nbsp; Wil=
l it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot size of each hop=A1=AFs u=
nderlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two different values?&nbsp; I.e=
., I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-to-end tributary slot size makes=
 sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actual=
ly, label information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so,=
 tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no=
 problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot=
 size (1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagr=
aph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportList=
s]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:I=
gnore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)Uk &nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above=
, the value of k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) wi=
ll change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] =
As explained above, label information is link/span scope, so there is no pr=
oblem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dle=
ft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=
=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:le=
ft'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid bl=
ue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-t=
op:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday=
, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] th=
e merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The =
merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard time.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt'>We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on this =
merged draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am no=
t going to summarize what we have achieved, </span><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt'>Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and acti=
ve experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:12.0pt'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpl=
s-evolving-g709-08.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evol=
ving-g709-08.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></body></html>=

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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:45:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I com=
pletely agree with you. The function of signaling is to provide minimal suf=
ficient hop-by-hop *<b>connection specific</b>* information, so that NEs al=
ong the path could be provisioned in
 a satisfactory and coherent way. What is the point of signaling link speci=
fic information, such as TS granularity? It would only make sense if a link=
 can support more than one TS type, and it is possible to choose one on per=
-service basis. If this is not the
 case, &nbsp;&nbsp;then every NE knows its own links better than anyone els=
e on the network and the signaling will provide no additional information a=
t best, and can bring confusion at worst. In fact, the path for the connect=
ion was selected based on the information
 advertised by NEs. As you correctly pointed out, signaling TS granularity =
could be only used for a sanity check and therefore IMO redundant.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Igor<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 9:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sergi=
o,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">You d=
id not actually address any of my three points;&nbsp; your one comment is a=
n example of the usage of the word =A1=AEsmug=A1=AF.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.be=
lotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">In line<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<div>
<p><b><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">SERGIO BELOTTI</span></b><span lan=
g=3D"IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">ALCATEL-LUCENT</span><span lang=3D"=
IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">Terrestrial System Architect</s=
pan><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">Optics Portfolio Evolution</spa=
n><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp;=
 Italy</span><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">T: &#43;39 0396863033</span><sp=
an lang=3D"IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucen=
t.com</span></b><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"color:blue">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">Da:</span></b><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> John E Drake [mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net]
<br>
<b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.45<br>
<b>A:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded</span><=
span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"IT"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Comme=
nts inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.be=
lotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">John,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">TS granularity=
 is a paramenter discussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and needed inf=
ormation for signalling and routing. This is why is explicitly
 present as needed information in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just because at one time &nbsp;it was thought to =
be needed does not mean that upon reflection it is still needed, and for th=
e record, ever since January 2010 I have been asking
 why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Encoding draft=
 is the mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an=
 essential parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces
 and permit&nbsp; end nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be use=
d. </span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to specify tributary slot size for a=
 hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inherits the tributary slot siz=
e(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which
 it is routed, and as Fatai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can cha=
nge hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Moreover , the=
re is the auto-negotiation and his CP relationship that is one of the open =
point that again could require as mandatory to have TS gran.
 As signalling parameter (and in certain cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">JD:&nbsp; I am sorry, but I am having trouble understanding this =
sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">SB&gt; This wh=
y you probably did not understand the content above<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Thanks<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">sergio<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">Da:</span></b><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>Per conto di </b>John E Drake<br>
<b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.00<br>
<b>A:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded</span><=
span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quo=
t;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"IT"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Usual=
ly fields that change hop-by-hop are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">If it=
 is the case that tributary slot size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are inten=
ded to change hop-by-hop, then these fields are completely redundant and sh=
ould be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">The u=
nderlying TE link is explicitly identified in the signaling message and hen=
ce its tributary slot size and its link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, =
including these fields introduces additional
 error cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fields and th=
e known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John =
&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hi John,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thanks for your com=
ments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">7</s=
pan><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun=
&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">22</span><span lang=3D"Z=
H-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
 1:59<br>
<b>To:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Fatai=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I hav=
e some question on this draft, some of which I have asked you before:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"=
><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D">Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft, used inste=
ad of the four bit ODUj field?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">[Fatai] Agree. The =
label format is quite flexible to extend this field to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"=
><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D">Why is tributary slot size included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop=
, as the tributary slot size of each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link c=
an take on one of two different values?&nbsp; I.e.,
 I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-to-end tributary slot size makes s=
ense. <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">[Fatai] Do you mean=
 label information should be end-to-end? Actually, label information is lin=
k/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so, tributary slot type (1.25G =
or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop,
 there is no problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tr=
ibutary slot size (1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"=
><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D">Why is the OD(T)Uk &nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the valu=
e of k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierarchical LSP) will change =
hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt">[Fatai] As explained above, label information is link=
/span scope, so there is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes h=
op by hop.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hi all,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">The merged OTN sign=
aling draft has been submitted after quite long hard time.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">We would like to re=
quest all of you to have a careful review on this merged draft and then sha=
re your comments or suggestions freely, so I am not going to summarize what=
 we have achieved,
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thanks to all the p=
eople including the authors, contributors and active experts.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><a href=3D"http://w=
ww.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt">http://www.iet=
f.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:54:31 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSectio=
n1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Igor=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks.&nbsp; I think the same reasoni=
ng applies to the ODUk/OTUk link capacity field.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'te=
xt-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border=
:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div sty=
le=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'=
><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Igor Brysk=
in [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011=
 8:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b>=
 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uplo=
aded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft sty=
le=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>I completely agree with you. The function of signaling is to provide min=
imal sufficient hop-by-hop *<b>connection specific</b>* information, so tha=
t NEs along the path could be provisioned in a satisfactory and coherent wa=
y. What is the point of signaling link specific information, such as TS gra=
nularity? It would only make sense if a link can support more than one TS t=
ype, and it is possible to choose one on per-service basis. If this is not =
the case, &nbsp;&nbsp;then every NE knows its own links better than anyone =
else on the network and the signaling will provide no additional informatio=
n at best, and can bring confusion at worst. In fact, the path for the conn=
ection was selected based on the information advertised by NEs. As you corr=
ectly pointed out, signaling TS granularity could be only used for a sanity=
 check and therefore IMO redundant.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Igor=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;b=
order-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Friday, July 22, 2011 9:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>=
Cc:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling dra=
ft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dl=
eft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>You did not actually address any of my three points;&nbsp; your=
 one comment is an example of the usage of the word =A1=AEsmug=A1=AF.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Jo=
hn &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #=
B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft s=
tyle=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belott=
i@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:51 AM<br><b>=
To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> =
R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>In line<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p><b=
><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif=
";color:blue'>SERGIO BELOTTI</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'=
> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>ALCATEL-LUCENT</span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>Terrestrial System Ar=
chitect</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:pur=
ple'>Optics Portfolio Evolution</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'>=
 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple'>via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp=
; Italy</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></span><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:pur=
ple'>T: +39 0396863033</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <br></sp=
an><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif";color:purple'>Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com</span></b><span lang=
=3DIT style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal alig=
n=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span=
 lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:=
</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br><b>Inviato:</b> =
venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.45<br><b>A:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>=
<b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged O=
TN signaling draft uploaded</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt=
;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comm=
ents inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.=
0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D't=
ext-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel=
-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 22, 2011 5:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> J=
ohn E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP=
] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:blue'>TS granularity is a paramenter discussed a lot when we wrot=
e reaquireemtns and needed information for signalling and routing. This is =
why is explicitly present as needed information in the info draft .<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just =
because at one time &nbsp;it was thought to be needed does not mean that up=
on reflection it is still needed, and for the record, ever since January 20=
10 I have been asking why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Encodi=
ng draft is the mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granulari=
ty is an essential parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces an=
d permit&nbsp; end nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to specify tributary slot size fo=
r a hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inherits the tributary slot =
size(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which it is routed, and as F=
atai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can change hop-by-hop<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";col=
or:blue'>Moreover , there is the auto-negotiation and his CP relationship t=
hat is one of the open point that again could require as mandatory to have =
TS gran. As signalling parameter (and in certain cases also for routing) .<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am=
 sorry, but I am having trouble understanding this sentence<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>SB&gt; This why you probably did not under=
stand the content above<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif";color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";c=
olor:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align=
:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic"=
,"sans-serif"'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DIT =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b>=
<span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>Per conto di <=
/b>John E Drake<br><b>Inviato:</b> venerd=A8=AC 22 luglio 2011 14.00<br><b>=
A:</b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN s=
ignaling draft uploaded</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;fon=
t-family:"MS PGothic","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DIT><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that ch=
ange hop-by-hop are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>If it is the case that tributary slot size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity a=
re intended to change hop-by-hop, then these fields are completely redundan=
t and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying =
TE link is explicitly identified in the signaling message and hence its tri=
butary slot size and its link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, including =
these fields introduces additional error cases caused by a mismatch between=
 the values in these fields and the known values of the underlying TE link.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:soli=
d #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dlef=
t style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake=
; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft upl=
oaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft st=
yle=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for your comments. Please se=
e in-line below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&=
nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border=
:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>7</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>22</span><span lang=3DZH-CN s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 1:59<br><b>To:</b> Fatai=
 Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling dra=
ft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dl=
eft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draft, some of which I have asked y=
ou before:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListPara=
graph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLi=
sts]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list=
:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal Type, defined in the OTN routing draft=
, used instead of the four bit ODUj field?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format =
is quite flexible to extend this field to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Ro=
man"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot size included=
?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot size of each h=
op=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two different values=
?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-to-end tributary slot=
 size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-t=
o-end? Actually, label information is link/span scope, it can be changed ho=
p by hop, so, tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop=
, there is no problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the t=
ributary slot size (1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if=
 !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style=
=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)Uk &nbsp;field needed?&nbsp; As =
with 2), above, the value of k for the underlying ODUk/OTUk link (or hierar=
chical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.=
0pt'>[Fatai] As explained above, label information is link/span scope, so t=
here is no problem when ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-=
align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dle=
ft style=3D'text-align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'=
>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-=
align:left'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:=
#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:=
solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;=
border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mail=
to:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fatai Zhang<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'CCAMP'<br><b>Subject:</b> [C=
CAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0=
pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long hard=
 time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:12.0pt'>We would like to request all of you to have a careful review =
on this merged draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so=
 I am not going to summarize what we have achieved, </span><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.=
0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors =
and active experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-=
ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-=
gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks<br>&nbsp;<br>Fatai<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, Mohit Misra <mmisra@infinera.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs multi stage)
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Hi Lou,

We do want to highlight a new requirement (and a possible solution) regardi=
ng "how to control the origination point of implicit H-LSP" through ERO. Se=
rvice layer LSP request should have an option to contain enough information=
 to identify where the implicit LSP originating from and where it is termin=
ating. This detail should include, for each layer, the Interface ID and OPU=
 time slot  to complete the specification.

Thanks
Khuzema & Rajan


-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 7:13 AM
To: Rajan Rao
Cc: John E Drake; CCAMP; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Khuzema Pithewan; Biao Lu; M=
ohit Misra
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage vs m=
ulti stage)

Guys,
	I'm sorry, I don't understand the point of your mail.

Is it:
1) definition related: to make a comment on the definition of "implicit H-L=
SP"
2) requirements related: to highlight a new requirement/challenge related t=
o the control of "implicit H-LSPs" via "implicit-link LSPs"
3) solution related: to state a solution to a new requirement/challenge rel=
ated to the control of "implicit H-LSPs"
4) something else

BTW my intent on this particular thread was to keep the discussion focused =
on definitions and requirements, not solutions.  We can move onto solutions=
 once we have agreement on terms and requirements.

Lou

On 7/21/2011 8:45 PM, Rajan Rao wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> The use of "implicit H-LSP" could be problematic as far as use of=20
> explicit routing is concerned.  In explicit routing case we need a way=20
> to specify  origination point of implicit-HLSP(s), i.e. the ODU
> layer(s) and the time slots.
>=20
> One way to specify the origination point in explicit route is to use a=20
> new label format which captures hierarchy details including time=20
> slots.
>=20
> The multi-stage label can be used to instantiate "implicit H-LSP(s)"
> optionally and to  address the above case.
>=20
> Thanks
> Rajan & Khuzema
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 7:55 AM
> To: Rajan Rao
> Cc: John E Drake; CCAMP; Ashok Kunjidhapatham; Khuzema Pithewan; Biao=20
> Lu; Mohit Misra
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single stage=20
> vs multi stage)
>=20
> Rajan,
> 	See below for in-line responses.
>=20
> On 7/13/2011 6:22 AM, Rajan Rao wrote:
>> Lou,
>>
>> The 4th LSP type (implicit-link LSP) is not very clear. This seems to=20
>> represent the service-LSP which induces implicit H-LSPs (type #3). In=20
>> which case this should be a regular LSP (type#1) capable of inducing typ=
e#3.
>=20
> Well, in *theory* I agree there should be minimal difference between a=20
> regular LSP and an implicit (link) LSP.  I think the degree of=20
> difference will come down to the specific mechanism we define.
>=20
> At this stage, where we are still don't have consensus on=20
> requirements, I think we need to differentiate the two.
>=20
>>
>> We would like to retain "implicit-link" definition you had in your=20
>> email earlier. To clarify, the "implicit-link" can have data plane=20
>> representation with or without control plane representation (LSP).
>=20
> If there is a one-to-one correspondence between the control plane and=20
> the link, it is a standard H-LSP.
>=20
>> In case of no control plane representation, the bandwidth of=20
>> implicit-link is managed on the parent Te-Link.
>=20
> And I was referring to the lower-level of the hierarchy in the=20
> data-plane as an "implicit H-LSP"
>=20
> Also, as has been highlighted by the other discussions, there's more=20
> to consider than just bandwidth.
>=20
>>
>>
>> The definition of "implicit-link" is same as you had before as follows:
>>
>> "
>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>     may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.) "
>>
>> To clarify, the multi-stage label proposed in draft-khuzema refers to=20
>> "implicit-link" creation without implicit H-LSPs.
>>
>=20
> I must not have been clear in my previous mail.  An "implicit-link"=20
> (as
> defined) is just a logical entity, i.e., a concept. An "implicit H-LSP"
> (as defined) refers to the level of the hierarchy in the data-plane=20
> that instantiates an implicit-link.  So, using these terms,=20
> draft-khuzema refers to implicit-links that result in implicit H-LSPs.
>=20
> Lou
>=20
>> Thanks
>> Rajan, Ashok & Khuzema.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
>> Behalf Of Lou Berger
>> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:58 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] John's Terminology (Was RE: RSVP OTN single=20
>> stage vs multi stage)
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/8/2011 5:21 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> ...
>>>> How about we use the following terminology based on the existing=20
>>>> H-LSP and link terminology and the (new) concept of *implicit*=20
>>>> links and H- LSPs.
>>>>
>>>> 1) "implicit-link"
>>>>    An implicit link is a logical entity that matches a (sup)layer
>>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy, and which is established as
>>>>    result of control or management plane actions at a different layer
>>>>    (stage) in the data plane hierarchy. (Recall that a GMPLS/MPLS link
>>>>    may be a physical interface or provided by an H-LSP.)
>>>>
>>>> 2) "implicit-link LSP"
>>>>    This is an LSP that uses an implicit-link.  Note that the
>>>>    implicit-link might not exist before the LSP is signaled.
>>>>
>>>> 3) "implicit H-LSP" (or implicitly established H-LSP)
>>>>    The H-LSP that is not directly signaled/managed and corresponds to
>>>>    an implicit-link.  Such an H-LSP is created as a result of the
>>>>    signaling/managment of an LSP that uses an implicit link.
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> JD: 1) is what I was calling an intermediate switching stage LSP and
>> Given that 1 is a "logical entity", I suspect you mean (and I agree)=20
>> that 3) is whay you were calling an intermediate switching stage LSP.
>>
>>> 2) is what I was calling an OUDj service LSP?
>>
>> agreed.
>>
>> So this leaves us with 4 types of LSPs.
>>
>> (old) LSPs
>>       LSPs that use explicit links
>> (old) H-LSPs
>>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>>       explicitly controlled
>>
>> (new) Implicit H-LSP
>>       LSPs that provide links to higher layers and are
>>       controlled via implicit mechanisms
>> (new) implicit-link LSP
>>       LSPs that use / trigger Implicit H-LSPs
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Fri Jul 22 22:15:09 2011
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Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:14:55 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
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Cc: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:31:09 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Summary of OTN signaling discussion
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Hi all,
 
There are still some unclear things about OTN signaling including one-hop multi-stage muxing.

We are trying to capture the major points of the discussion on RSVP for OTN single stage vs multi-stage, which has been discussed these days.
 
Please review these slides "carefully" , and then share your technical comments.
 




Fatai, Daniele, Sergio&Pietro




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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Hi all,<BR>&nbsp;<BR>There are still some unclear things 
about OTN signaling including one-hop multi-stage muxing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>We are trying to capture the major points of the 
discussion on RSVP for OTN single stage vs multi-stage, which has been discussed 
these days.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Please review these slides "carefully" , and then share 
your technical comments.<BR>&nbsp;<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Fatai, Daniele, Sergio&amp;Pietro</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri color=#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri color=#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri color=#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri color=#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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uation'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Igor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>=A1=B0</span></fon=
t><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;col=
or:#1F497D'>It
would only make sense if a link can support more than one TS type, and it i=
s
possible to choose one on per-service basis=A1=B1 <o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>And this is exactly what can happe=
n. &nbsp;For
signaling &nbsp;to set up HO ODUk, the end node must know if 1.25G TS
capability is needed . The ODUk termination and HO/LO adaptation are freque=
ntly
implemented on a port card, and a 1.25G TS capable node may have old and ne=
w
port cards, not all of which are 1.25G TS capable. The node needs to know i=
f it
is necessary to choose a 1.25G TS capable interface .<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I suggest to examine as said by Fa=
tai,
very careful the different scenarios before going directly suggesting&nbsp;=
 to delete
information. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio</span></font><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d"><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
 Igor
Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
17.46<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> John E Drake; BELOTTI, SE=
RGIO
(SERGIO)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I completely agree with you. The
function of signaling is to provide minimal sufficient hop-by-hop *<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>connection specific</span></b>* information, so =
that
NEs along the path could be provisioned in a satisfactory and coherent way.
What is the point of signaling link specific information, such as TS
granularity? <a name=3D"OLE_LINK2"></a><a name=3D"OLE_LINK1">It would only =
make
sense if a link can support more than one TS type, and it is possible to ch=
oose
one on per-service basis</a>. If this is not the case, &nbsp;&nbsp;then eve=
ry
NE knows its own links better than anyone else on the network and the signa=
ling
will provide no additional information at best, and can bring confusion at
worst. In fact, the path for the connection was selected based on the
information advertised by NEs. As you correctly pointed out, signaling TS
granularity could be only used for a sanity check and therefore IMO redunda=
nt.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Igor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Beha=
lf Of </span></b>John
E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 22, 2011 =
9:01
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)=
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You did not actually address any o=
f my
three points;&nbsp; your one comment is an example of the usage of the word
=A1=AEsmug=A1=AF.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> BELOTTI, SERGIO
(SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 22, 2011 =
5:51
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] the merg=
ed OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>In line<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>SERGIO BELOTTI</span></font=
></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>ALCATEL-LUCENT</span></font><font color=3D=
blue><span
style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Terrestrial System Architect</span>=
</font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>Optics Portfolio Evolution</span></=
font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)&nbsp; Italy<=
/span></font><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple'>T: +39 0396863033</span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <br>
</span></font><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DTahoma><span style=3D=
'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:purple;font-weight:bold'>Sergio.Belotti@alc=
atel-lucent.com</span></font></b><font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
 John E Drake
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.45<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3DSimSun><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> BELOTTI, SERGIO
(SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 22, 2011 =
5:19
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] the merg=
ed OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>TS granularity is =
a
paramenter discussed a lot when we wrote reaquireemtns and needed informati=
on
for signalling and routing. This is why is explicitly present as needed
information in the info draft .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD: &nbsp;&nbsp;Just because at on=
e time
&nbsp;it was thought to be needed does not mean that upon reflection it is
still needed, and for the record, ever since January 2010 I have been askin=
g
why it is needed in signaling<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Encoding draft is =
the
mirror of what discussed before . &nbsp;Anyway TS granularity is an essenti=
al
parameter to be configured in the physical interfaces and permit&nbsp; end
nodes of an FA to understand which TS&nbsp; to be used. </span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; How is it possible to sp=
ecify
tributary slot size for a hierarchical LSP?&nbsp; A hierarchical LSP inheri=
ts
the tributary slot size(s) of the underlying ODUk/OTUk links over which it =
is
routed, and as Fatai indicates&nbsp; the tributary slot size can change
hop-by-hop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Moreover , there i=
s the
auto-negotiation and his CP relationship that is one of the open point that
again could require as mandatory to have TS gran. As signalling parameter (=
and
in certain cases also for routing) .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>JD:&nbsp; I am sorry, but I am hav=
ing
trouble understanding this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>SB&gt; This why yo=
u
probably did not understand the content above<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"MS PGothic"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic=
"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weigh=
t:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Per conto di </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> venerd=A8=AC 22 lug=
lio 2011
14.00<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"MS PGothic=
"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic"'><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Usually fields that change hop-by-=
hop
are explicitly identified.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If it is the case that tributary s=
lot
size and ODUk/OTUk link capacity are intended to change hop-by-hop, then th=
ese
fields are completely redundant and should be removed.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The underlying TE link is explicit=
ly
identified in the signaling message and hence its tributary slot size and i=
ts
link capacity are known.&nbsp; Further, including these fields introduces
additional error cases caused by a mismatch between the values in these fie=
lds
and the known values of the underlying TE link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John &nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Fatai Zhang
[mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 21, 201=
1 9:50
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; 'CCAMP'<br=
>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for your comments. Please see in-line below.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> John E Drake
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 2011</span></font><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>7</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>22</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
1:59<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Fatai Zhang; 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] the mer=
ged
OTN signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fatai,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have some question on this draft=
, some
of which I have asked you before:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why isn=A1=AFt Signal=
 Type,
defined in the OTN routing draft, used instead of the four bit ODUj field?<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Agree. The label format is quite flexible to extend this fi=
eld
to 8 bits.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is tributary slot=
 size
included?&nbsp; Will it not change hop-by-hop, as the tributary slot size o=
f
each hop=A1=AFs underlying UDUk/OTUk link can take on one of two different
values?&nbsp; I.e., I don=A1=AFt think having an single end-to-end tributar=
y slot
size makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>[Fatai] Do you mean label information should be end-to-end? Actuall=
y,
label information is link/span scope, it can be changed hop by hop, so,
tributary slot type (1.25G or 2.5G) can be changed hop by hop, there is no
problem. &nbsp;In addition, label allocation depends on the tributary slot =
size
(1.25G or 2.5G).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497=
d"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Why is the OD(T)<st1:=
country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Uk</st1:place></st1:country-region> &nbs=
p;field
needed?&nbsp; As with 2), above, the value of k for the underlying ODUk/OTU=
k
link (or hierarchical LSP) will change hop-by-hop.<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>[Fatai] As exp=
lained
above, label information is link/span scope, so there is no problem when
ODU/OTUk link (or H-LSP) changes hop by hop. </span></font><font size=3D2><=
span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;
color:#1F497D'>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p=
>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><b><font size=
=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Taho=
ma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Beha=
lf Of </span></b>Fatai
Zhang<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 07, 201=
1 8:23
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'CCAMP'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [CCAMP] the merged =
OTN
signaling draft uploaded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><font size=3D2
face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The merged OTN signaling draft has been submitted after quite long =
hard
time.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>We would like to request all of you to have a careful review on thi=
s
merged draft and then share your comments or suggestions freely, so I am no=
t
going to summarize what we have achieved, </span></font><font size=3D3
face=3DWingdings><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:W=
ingdings'>J</span></font><font
size=3D3><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks to all the people including the authors, contributors and ac=
tive
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt=
">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709-08.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:
10.5pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</body>

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From jdrake@juniper.net  Mon Jul 25 09:10:45 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 07:21:16 -0700
Thread-Topic: R: [CCAMP] the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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From: Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
Thread-Index: AcxK2NubMAbWEKbiTAigKTyqBy1pUwAG+Aog
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:01:59 +0000
Message-ID: <650AA355E323C34D9D4AAEED952E053D0766E415@SV-EXDB-PROD1.infinera.com>
References: <021e01cc3d1e$5dc9c800$195d5800$@com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A98C3437@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <008501cc482a$dc754140$955fc3c0$@com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A99A7EDA@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D81785639A@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A99A7EF4@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D8178563D4@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A0A99A7F03@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A089D1E85@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com> <F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D8178A51BB@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <4954492E-DEFD-4586-BABD-2C7B0022B0FB@juniper.net> <F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D8178A5234@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <E412153A-DA95-4D2C-B644-649E7B21C3D3@juniper.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:42:06 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Mon Jul 25 12:17:25 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:16:40 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R: R:  the merged OTN signaling draft uploaded
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : RSVP Resource Sharing Remote Identification Association
	Author(s)       : Francois Le Faucheur
                          Ashok Narayanan
                          Subha Dhesikan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-resource-sharing-02.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2011-07-25

   The Resource reSerVation Protocol (RSVP) ASSOCIATION object allows to
   create association across RSVP path states or across Resv states.
   Two association types are currently defined: recovery and resource
   sharing.  This document defines a new association type called
   &quot;Resource Sharing Remote Identification&quot;.  It can be used by t=
he
   sender to convey to the receiver the information that can then be
   used by the receiver to identify a downstream initiated resource
   sharing association.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-resource-sharing-=
02.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-resource-sharing-0=
2.txt

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From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul 27 09:23:17 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 09:20:48 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi,

Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and =
we have the following proposal.

1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations=
 to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I think this was=
 there are one time.)

2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size

The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori unde=
rstanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size=
 to be used on that link.

I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot bi=
t map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k) case.  Th=
e former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the l=
atter allows uniform processing in all cases.

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone



From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Wed Jul 27 10:42:23 2011
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 01:42:13 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi all,

I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on that link."

I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF, RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS and consistent with ITU-T recommendtations. 

So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined Signal Type). 






Fatai

Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
Subject: TS in Signaling


Hi,

Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and we have the following proposal.

1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).  (I think this was there are one time.)

2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size

The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on that link.

I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j = k) case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.

Thanks,

John 

Sent from my iPhone


From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul 27 10:47:56 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:46:01 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMhIvu8w7kihBvTsOGeQTF1zvTaQAAERvA
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Fatai,

I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the same enco=
ding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI,
> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this
> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the
> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on
> that link."
>=20
> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF,
> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that
> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS and
> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>=20
> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, ie.,
> the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined Signal Type).
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Fatai
>=20
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; "Fatai
> Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> Subject: TS in Signaling
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
> think this was there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone


From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Wed Jul 27 10:57:21 2011
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 01:57:05 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi John,

I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.

I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)






Fatai

Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
Subject: RE: TS in Signaling


Fatai,

I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.

Thanks,

John 

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI,
> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this
> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the
> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on
> that link."
> 
> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF,
> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that
> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS and
> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> 
> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, ie.,
> the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined Signal Type).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatai
> 
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; "Fatai
> Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> Subject: TS in Signaling
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
> 
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).  (I
> think this was there are one time.)
> 
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> 
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
> 
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j = k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul 27 11:04:02 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:03:48 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMhp8OfM8yNhLKTmOZew2YG9cdrgAAOQqQ
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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As are we all.

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI,
> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>=20
> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Fatai
>=20
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema
> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
>=20
> Fatai,
>=20
> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the same
> encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> > To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> GRANDI,
> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this
> > means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the
> > endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on
> > that link."
> >
> > I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF,
> > RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that
> > some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS
> and
> > consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> >
> > So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, ie.,
> > the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined Signal
> Type).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Fatai
> >
> > Thanks
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> > "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
> PIETRO
> > VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> > <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; "Fatai
> > Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> > Subject: TS in Signaling
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> signaling
> > and we have the following proposal.
> >
> > 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> > combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (=
I
> > think this was there are one time.)
> >
> > 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> >
> > The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> priori
> > understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> > slot size to be used on that link.
> >
> > I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> > slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
> k)
> > case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> > check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone

From zali@cisco.com  Wed Jul 27 11:10:09 2011
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Thread-Topic: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73
thread-index: AcxMiGic4vbBtFK+R72U1cUZ6L4kMg==
From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: <tm-otani@kddi.com>, <danli@huawei.com>, <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Cc: "Mike Taillon \(mtaillon\)" <mtaillon@cisco.com>
Subject: [CCAMP] How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73
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Dear authors of RFC6205 and all-=20

=20

>From RFC 6205 and RFC 3471, 3471, it is not clear how a receiver can
differentiate between LSC labels that are encoded for DWDM (as per RFC
6205) and non-DWDM encoded LSC labels from RFC 3471/73 (similar what is
expected of the sender of such labels).=20

=20

Please note that:

=20

*        Both labels are 32 bit long LSC labels.=20

*        There is no label type in any signaling message.=20

*        None of these RFCs specify what label encoding type should be
carried to indicate which LSP encoding type should be carried to
indicate how the signaling label is encoded. Can we/ should we use
encoding type to inferred the label type. If yes, this is not a 1:1
relationship and is not documented. =20

=20

Your follow-ups on this will be much appreciated.=20

=20

Thanks

=20

Regards ... Zafar=20

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Dear authors of RFC6205 and all- =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>From RFC 6205 and RFC 3471, 3471, it is not =
clear how a receiver can differentiate between LSC labels that are =
encoded for DWDM (as per RFC 6205) and non-DWDM encoded LSC labels from =
RFC 3471/73 (similar what is expected of the sender of such labels). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Please note that:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Both labels are 32 bit long LSC labels. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>There is no label type in any signaling =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>None of these RFCs specify what label =
encoding type should be carried to indicate which LSP encoding type =
should be carried to indicate how the signaling label is encoded. Can =
we/ should we use encoding type to inferred the label type. If yes, this =
is not a 1:1 relationship and is not documented. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Your follow-ups on this will be much =
appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Regards ... Zafar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:31:17 +0000
From: Huawei danli <huawei.danli@huawei.com>
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Thread-topic: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73
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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<style>=0A=
<!--=0A=
@font-face=0A=
	{font-family:Wingdings}=0A=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0=
">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Arial;color: #000000;font-size: 1=
0pt;">Hi Zafar,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not quite sure if I understand your question correctly.&nbsp;</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For non-DWDM encoded LSC, do you mean CWDM? If yes, then the label def=
ined in 6205 covers this case.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From 3471 section 3.1.1, if the encoding type is lambda, then you can =
use the label format defined in 6205.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan</div>
<div>&nbsp;<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF49755" style=3D"direction: ltr; "><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Zafar Ali (zali) [zal=
i@cisco.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 2:10<br>
<b>=B5=BD:</b> tm-otani@kddi.com; Huawei danli; ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Lou Berger; Mike Taillon (mtaillon)<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of R=
FC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">Dear authors of RFC620=
5 and all-
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">From RFC 6205 and RFC =
3471, 3471, it is not clear how a receiver can differentiate between LSC la=
bels that are encoded for DWDM (as per RFC 6205) and non-DWDM
 encoded LSC labels from RFC 3471/73 (similar what is expected of the sende=
r of such labels).
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">Please note that:</spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.0pt; font-family:Symbol; color:black"><span style=3D"">=A1=A4<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">Both labels are 32 bit l=
ong LSC labels.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.0pt; font-family:Symbol; color:black"><span style=3D"">=A1=A4<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">There is no label type i=
n any signaling message.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.0pt; font-family:Symbol; color:black"><span style=3D"">=A1=A4<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">None of these RFCs speci=
fy what label encoding type should be carried to indicate which LSP encodin=
g type should be carried to indicate how the signaling
 label is encoded. Can we/ should we use encoding type to inferred the labe=
l type. If yes, this is not a 1:1 relationship and is not documented. &nbsp=
;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">Your follow-ups on thi=
s will be much appreciated.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">Thanks</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:black">Regards ... Zafar
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From malcolm.betts@zte.com.cn  Wed Jul 27 11:46:00 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi all,

I am having trouble understanding some of the assertions being made - 
please see in line below.

Regards,

Malcolm




Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com> 
Sent by: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
27/07/2011 01:42 PM

To
John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" 
<sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli 
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO 
VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, Khuzema Pithewan 
<kpithewan@infinera.com>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
cc
CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject
Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling






Hi all,

I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this means 
that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the endpoints 
of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on that link."
[MB] To be clear signalling cannot change the TS used on a link it is 
determined by the hardware.  A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of 
the OTN payloads.  A link that uses 2.5G TS cannot support some payloads 
e.g. ODUflex.

I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF, RSVP) 
and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that some 
experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS and 
consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
[MB] So what is the justification for combining them. If TS granularity 
and payload type are "merged" does this imply that we must use the same TS 
granularity on all links end to end. A higher level question why do you 
need to signal the TS granularity - routing should only select a path that 
supports the required TS granularity.

So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, ie., the 
original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined Signal Type). 






Fatai

Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; 
"Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO 
VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; 
"Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; 
<zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; "Fatai 
Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
Subject: TS in Signaling


Hi,

Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and 
we have the following proposal.

1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size 
combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).  (I think 
this was there are one time.)

2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size

The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori 
understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot 
size to be used on that link.

I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot 
bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j = k) case. 
The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and 
the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.

Thanks,

John 

Sent from my iPhone

_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp



--=_alternative 00670AEF852578DA_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi all,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am having trouble understanding some
of the assertions being made - please see in line below.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Malcolm</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=35%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Fatai Zhang &lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</b>
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">27/07/2011 01:42 PM</font>
<td width=64%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">John E Drake &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;,
&quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot; &lt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;,
Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;, &quot;GRANDI,
PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;,
Khuzema Pithewan &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">CCAMP &lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>Hi all,<br>
<br>
I do agree with John on the statement: &quot; The nice thing is that this
means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the endpoints
of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on that link.&quot;</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2 color=blue>[MB] To be clear signalling cannot change
the TS used on a link it is determined by the hardware. &nbsp;A link that
uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads. &nbsp;A link that uses
2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex.<br>
</font></tt><tt><font size=2><br>
I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF, RSVP)
and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that some experts
suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS and consistent with
ITU-T recommendtations.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2 color=blue>[MB] So what is the justification for combining
them. If TS granularity and payload type are &quot;merged&quot; does this
imply that we must use the same TS granularity on all links end to end.
A higher level question why do you need to signal the TS granularity -
routing should only select a path that supports the required TS granularity</font></tt><tt><font size=2>.<br>
<br>
So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, ie., the
original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined Signal Type). <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Fatai<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: &quot;John E Drake&quot; &lt;jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<br>
To: &quot;BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)&quot; &lt;sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;;
&quot;Daniele Ceccarelli&quot; &lt;daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com&gt;;
&quot;GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)&quot; &lt;pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com&gt;;
&quot;Khuzema Pithewan&quot; &lt;kpithewan@infinera.com&gt;; &lt;zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;Lou Berger&quot; &lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;; &quot;CCAMP&quot;
&lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;; &quot;Fatai Zhang&quot; &lt;zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM<br>
Subject: TS in Signaling<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
and we have the following proposal.<br>
<br>
1) &nbsp;Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations
to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 &amp; ODU3/TS=2.5G). &nbsp;(I think
this was there are one time.)<br>
<br>
2) &nbsp;Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size<br>
<br>
The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot
size to be used on that link.<br>
<br>
I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot
bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j = k) case.
&nbsp;The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check
and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
John <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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From kpithewan@infinera.com  Wed Jul 27 11:57:03 2011
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From: Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMeSTz6aFWJpZZTu+ZLLqKkvqZ0AAC2XeQAA7LgID//43MwIAAdysAgABmvOA=
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:57:01 +0000
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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John,

TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was between 2 =
nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots. Now, that we are a=
ssuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori, the mention of TSG in la=
bel is redundant.

The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP for clien=
t-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG support by 2 en=
ds of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property discovery and correlation=
. LSP signaling can be used to communicate the property. We prefer a separa=
te object that carries TSG in signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal =
type will just blow up the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.

Thanks
Khuzema

-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIET=
RO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com=
.cn
Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
Subject: RE: TS in Signaling

As are we all.

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;=20
> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>=20
> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Fatai
>=20
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=20
> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema=20
> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
>=20
> Fatai,
>=20
> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the same=20
> encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> > To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> GRANDI,
> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this=20
> > means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the=20
> > endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on=20
> > that link."
> >
> > I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF,
> > RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that=20
> > some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS
> and
> > consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> >
> > So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,=20
> > ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined=20
> > Signal
> Type).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Fatai
> >
> > Thanks
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> > "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
> PIETRO
> > VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=20
> > lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;=20
> > <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;=20
> > "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> > Subject: TS in Signaling
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> signaling
> > and we have the following proposal.
> >
> > 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size=20
> > combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (=
I=20
> > think this was there are one time.)
> >
> > 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> >
> > The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> priori
> > understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the=20
> > tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> >
> > I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS=20
> > slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
> k)
> > case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity=20
> > check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone

From Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com  Wed Jul 27 12:06:34 2011
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi John,

I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I don'=
t think the signal type is the right place to do it.

>From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a TS gr=
anularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong to mandate=
 that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all cases.  I don't se=
e a use case for requesting a signal type of (say) ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you=
 elaborate?

The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible for an =
ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet 1.25G o=
n the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G, this would =
be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.

I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one is req=
uired) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer the requi=
red TS size from that and the signal type.

The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,

Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and =
we have the following proposal.

1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations=
 to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I think this was=
 there are one time.)

2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size

The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori unde=
rstanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size=
 to be used on that link.

I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot bi=
t map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k) case.  Th=
e former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the l=
atter allows uniform processing in all cases.

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone


_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From IHussain@infinera.com  Wed Jul 27 12:27:58 2011
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Li,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thank you very much for y=
our comments and pointer to your draft. BTW, we also had the draft many day=
s ago and but missed the submission cut-off date.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If you look carefully the=
re are significant differences between the two drafts. Our draft is also ex=
pected to be fully compliant with ITU flexible grid standard.&nbsp;
 If you wish we can discuss further details off-line.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Iftekhar<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> li.yao3@=
zte.com.cn [mailto:li.yao3@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Iftekhar Hussain<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org; ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: [CCAMP] FW: New Version Notification for draf=
t-hussain-ccamp-super-channel-label-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi hus=
sain:</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I want=
 to remind you that there is another flexible gird label draft &quot;<a hre=
f=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ccamp-flexible-grid-label-00">http=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ccamp-flexible-grid-label-00</a>&quot;
 we have submitted several days ago, and we have request a time slot in Thu=
rsday afternoon in quebec.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Few co=
mments</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=A3=BA</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I thin=
k once the extended wavelength label can be used to represent flexible labe=
l, there is no need to define the super channel label (same as the waveleng=
th band label (RFC3471) )to illustrate non-continuous
 spectral slice. The only thing we should do is to put the extended label t=
o the wavelength band label value field. So as in our draft, extending the =
wavelength label (RFC6205) is enough.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">In you=
r draft, you have also defined the label to be compatible with the fixed CW=
DM an DWDM situation, it seems a little bit weird to put them in wavelength=
 band label. And the bitmap encoding scheme of your draft
 is similar to the label set in our draft(see section 4.1 of our draft).</s=
pan> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The mo=
st important thing I think is the label for flexible grid should keep good =
alignment with ITU-T recommendation (G.694.1 and G.697), As for the frequen=
cy slot/slice, when the slot/slice width granularity is
 12.5 GHz, the nominal central frequency granularity is half of 12.5 GHz, S=
o this can make sure that there is not any spectral gaps between adjacent c=
hannel. But in your draft, you have give a different slot representation co=
mpared to ITU-T definition. The
 nominal frequency has become the start frequency/left edge of a slice/slot=
, not the center frequency of a slice. This may have some backward compatib=
ility issues to traditional usage.
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Iftekhar Hussain &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IHussain@infinera.com">IHussain@infinera.com</a>&gt;</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">: &nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2011-07-27 </span>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=C9=CF=CE=E7</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
> 03:47</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cc=
amp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">[CCAMP] FW: New Version Notification for d=
raft-hussain-ccamp-super-channel-label-00.txt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>We have submitted this new draft, please provide your comments. </tt><b=
r>
<tt>Thank you.</tt><br>
<tt>Iftekhar</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hussain-ccamp-super-c=
hannel-label/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hussain-ccamp-super-c=
hannel-label/</a></tt><br>
<br>
<tt>A new version of I-D, draft-hussain-ccamp-super-channel-label-00.txt ha=
s been successfully submitted by Iftekhar Hussain and posted to the IETF re=
pository.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Filename: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;draft-hussain-ccamp-super-channel-label</tt><br>
<tt>Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
;00</tt><br>
<tt>Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Generalized Label fo=
r Super-Channel Assignment on Flexible Grid</tt><br>
<tt>Creation date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;2011-07-25</tt><br>
<tt>WG ID: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Individual Submissio=
n</tt><br>
<tt>Number of pages: 15</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Abstract:</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; To enable scaling of existing transport systems to ultra high da=
ta</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; rates of 1 Tbps and beyond, next generation systems providing su=
per-</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; channel switching capability are currently being developed. To a=
llow</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; efficient allocation of optical spectral bandwidth for such high=
 bit</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; rate systems, International Telecommunication Union</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; Telecommunication Standardization Sector (ITU-T) is extending th=
e</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; G.694.1 grid standard (termed &amp;quot;Fixed-Grid&amp;quot;) to=
 include flexible grid</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; (termed &amp;quot;Flex-Grid&amp;quot;) support. This necessitate=
s definition of new</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; label format for the Flex-Grid. This document defines a super-</=
tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; channel label as a Super-Channel Identifier and an associated li=
st</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; of contiguous or non-contiguous set of 12.5 GHz slices represent=
ing</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; optical spectrum of the super-channel. The label information can=
 be</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; encoded using a fixed length or variable length format. This lab=
el</tt><br>
<tt>&nbsp; format can be used in GMPLS signaling and routing protocol to</t=
t><br>
<tt>&nbsp; establish super-channel based optical label switched paths (LSPs=
).</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>The IETF Secretariat</tt><br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>CCAMP mailing list</tt><br>
<tt><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
<tt><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></tt><br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From lberger@labn.net  Wed Jul 27 12:49:18 2011
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:49:12 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Khuzema,
	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be convinced
on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem with
increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused values
and are talking about using 3 of these.

My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first is
the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which is
the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when signaling an
OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested for
the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-LSP)
coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an field/object
with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal type.

Lou (chair hat off)

On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> John,
> 
> TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was
> between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
> Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori,
> the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
> 
> The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP for
> client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG
> support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property
> discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate
> the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in
> signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up
> the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
> 
> Thanks
> Khuzema
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
> To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> 
> As are we all.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; 
>> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>>
>> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fatai
>>
>> Thanks
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO 
>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema 
>> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>
>>
>> Fatai,
>>
>> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the same 
>> encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>> GRANDI,
>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that this 
>>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the 
>>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on 
>>> that link."
>>>
>>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info, OSPF,
>>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall that 
>>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of TS
>> and
>>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>>>
>>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, 
>>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined 
>>> Signal
>> Type).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fatai
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
>>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
>> PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel- 
>>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; 
>>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; 
>>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
>>> Subject: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>> signaling
>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>
>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size 
>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).  (I 
>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>
>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>>
>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>> priori
>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the 
>>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
>>>
>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS 
>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =
>> k)
>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity 
>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 

From adrian@olddog.co.uk  Wed Jul 27 13:01:20 2011
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Huawei danli'" <huawei.danli@huawei.com>, "'Zafar Ali \(zali\)'" <zali@cisco.com>, <tm-otani@kddi.com>, <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:00:57 +0100
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Cc: "'Mike Taillon \(mtaillon\)'" <mtaillon@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] How to differentiate between DWDM encoded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73
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Hi,
=20
I understand why Dan is confused by the question. I think you are trying =
to
answer a more complicated question than Zafar is asking.
=20
I think he is asking...
=20
Suppose a Label object is received containing a 32 bit label. How does =
the
receiver know whether this is a 3471/3473 lambda label or a 6205 WDM =
label?
=20
If that is the question, the answer is "it just knows."
=20
How?
=20
Well, as 3471 says...
=20
   Label: 32 bits
=20
      Indicates port/fiber or lambda to be used, from the perspective of
      the sender of the object/TLV.  Values used in this field only have
      significance between two neighbors, and the receiver may need to
      convert the received value into a value that has local
      significance.  Values may be configured or dynamically determined
      using a protocol such as [LMP].
      Label: Variable Length
=20
I suspect the underlying question was: "why didn't you allocate a new =
label type
(i.e. a new object class)?"
=20
The answer is as above and is further clarified in 3471
=20
   A Generalized Label does not identify the "class" to which the label
   belongs.  This is implicit in the multiplexing capabilities of the
   link on which the label is used.
=20
All this seems to be as stated in 6205
=20
I don't believe we would ever have general (numbered) and 6205 labels in =
the
same direction on the same link.
=20
A
=20
From: Huawei danli [mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com]=20
Sent: 27 July 2011 19:31
To: Zafar Ali (zali); tm-otani@kddi.com; ccamp@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Lou Berger; Mike Taillon (mtaillon)
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels =
of RFC6205 and
LSC labels of 3471/73
=20
Hi Zafar,=20
=20
I am not quite sure if I understand your question correctly.=20
=20
For non-DWDM encoded LSC, do you mean CWDM? If yes, then the label =
defined in
6205 covers this case.
=20
>From 3471 section 3.1.1, if the encoding type is lambda, then you can =
use the
label format defined in 6205.
=20
Thanks,
=20
Dan
=20
  _____ =20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Zafar Ali (zali) [zali@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 2:10
=B5=BD: tm-otani@kddi.com; Huawei danli; ccamp@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Lou Berger; Mike Taillon (mtaillon)
=D6=F7=CC=E2: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of =
RFC6205 and LSC
labels of 3471/73
Dear authors of RFC6205 and all-=20
=20
>From RFC 6205 and RFC 3471, 3471, it is not clear how a receiver can
differentiate between LSC labels that are encoded for DWDM (as per RFC =
6205) and
non-DWDM encoded LSC labels from RFC 3471/73 (similar what is expected =
of the
sender of such labels).=20
=20
Please note that:
=20
=A1=A4        Both labels are 32 bit long LSC labels.=20
=A1=A4        There is no label type in any signaling message.=20
=A1=A4        None of these RFCs specify what label encoding type should =
be carried
to indicate which LSP encoding type should be carried to indicate how =
the
signaling label is encoded. Can we/ should we use encoding type to =
inferred the
label type. If yes, this is not a 1:1 relationship and is not =
documented. =20
=20
Your follow-ups on this will be much appreciated.=20
=20
Thanks
=20
Regards ... Zafar=20
=20

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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>I understand why Dan is confused by the question. =
I think you are trying to answer a more complicated question than Zafar =
is asking.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>I think he is asking...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Suppose a Label object is received containing a 32 =
bit label. How does the receiver know whether this is a 3471/3473 lambda =
label or a 6205 WDM label?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>If that is the question, the answer is &quot;it =
just knows.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>How?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Well, as 3471 says...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>Label: 32 bits<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>Indicates port/fiber or lambda to be used, from the perspective =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>the =
sender of the object/TLV.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; =
</span>Values used in this field only have<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>significance between two neighbors, and the receiver may need =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>convert =
the received value into a value that has local<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>significance.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; =
</span>Values may be configured or dynamically =
determined<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>using a =
protocol such as [LMP].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Label: =
Variable Length<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>I suspect the underlying question was: &quot;why =
didn't you allocate a new label type (i.e. a new object =
class)?&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>The answer is as above and is further clarified in =
3471<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>A Generalized Label does not identify the &quot;class&quot; to =
which the label<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>belongs.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>This is =
implicit in the multiplexing capabilities of the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span>link on which the label is used.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>All this seems to be as stated in =
6205<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>I don't believe we would ever have general =
(numbered) and 6205 labels in the same direction on the same =
link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;ms=
o-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'> Huawei danli [mailto:huawei.danli@huawei.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> 27 July 2011 19:31<br><b>To:</b> Zafar Ali (zali); =
tm-otani@kddi.com; ccamp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Lou =
Berger; Mike Taillon (mtaillon)<br><b>Subject:</b> </span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of =
RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>Hi Zafar, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>I am not quite sure if I understand your question =
correctly.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>For non-DWDM encoded LSC, do you mean CWDM? If =
yes, then the label defined in 6205 covers this =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>From 3471 section 3.1.1, if the encoding type is =
lambda, then you can use the label format defined in =
6205.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><hr size=3D2 =
width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><div id=3DdivRpF49755><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'> Zafar Ali (zali) =
[zali@cisco.com]<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=C4=EA</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>7</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=D4=C2</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>28</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'> 2:10<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=B5=BD</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'> tm-otani@kddi.com; Huawei danli; =
ccamp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Lou Berger; Mike =
Taillon (mtaillon)<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma=
;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'> How to differentiate between DWDM encocded =
labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Dear authors of =
RFC6205 and all- </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From RFC 6205 and =
RFC 3471, 3471, it is not clear how a receiver can differentiate between =
LSC labels that are encoded for DWDM (as per RFC 6205) and non-DWDM =
encoded LSC labels from RFC 3471/73 (similar what is expected of the =
sender of such labels). </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Please note =
that:</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US'>=A1=A4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Both labels are 32 =
bit long LSC labels. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US'>=A1=A4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>There is no label =
type in any signaling message. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black;mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US'>=A1=A4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>None of these RFCs =
specify what label encoding type should be carried to indicate which LSP =
encoding type should be carried to indicate how the signaling label is =
encoded. Can we/ should we use encoding type to inferred the label type. =
If yes, this is not a 1:1 relationship and is not documented. =
&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Your follow-ups on =
this will be much appreciated. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thanks</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Regards ... Zafar =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0348_01CC4CA0.497BF300--


From steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 27 13:44:21 2011
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From: "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:44:07 -0500
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi all,
I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator knows t=
hey need" is a criteria regarding TS size.

>From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or LO O=
DU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over either 1.25G=
 or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the same connection can =
have different TS granularities along the path - it doesn't matter. If your=
 LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO ODUk must be 1.25G TS structu=
red, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3 mapped into a HO ODUk is only car=
ried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and presumably future larger ODUk) are onl=
y 1.25G TS structured. So the only "need" is that if you want to set up a L=
O ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3 connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G ca=
pable links. If you are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or=
 both on different segments of the connection.

As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the hardware on=
 both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G structuring, and=
 if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS granularity, they f=
all back to that. There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS g=
ranularity if the HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1=
.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of the same tributary types as a 2.5G=
 TS structured HO ODUk. If the hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operatio=
n, then it isn't going to work that way no matter what the operator wants.

So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk link (=
either because the control plane is told the results of the auto-negotiatio=
n, or if the control plane replicates the results of the auto-negotiation b=
y knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but I don't see where you =
are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
Regards,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
onathan Hardwick
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
To: John E Drake
Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi John,

I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I don'=
t think the signal type is the right place to do it.

>From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a TS gr=
anularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong to mandate=
 that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all cases.  I don't se=
e a use case for requesting a signal type of (say) ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you=
 elaborate?

The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible for an =
ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet 1.25G o=
n the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G, this would =
be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.

I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one is req=
uired) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer the requi=
red TS size from that and the signal type.

The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,

Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and =
we have the following proposal.

1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations=
 to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I think this was=
 there are one time.)

2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size

The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori unde=
rstanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size=
 to be used on that link.

I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot bi=
t map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k) case.  Th=
e former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the l=
atter allows uniform processing in all cases.

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone


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From lberger@labn.net  Wed Jul 27 14:15:36 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Tspec was another spot I've been thinking about, but had reservations as
allocation is also more of a "per-hop" processed object.  Deborah also
suggested g-pid, which is worth some consideration.  clearly we have to
keep looking at the different options.

Lou (hat off)

On 7/27/2011 3:06 PM, Jonathan Hardwick wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but
> I don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> 
>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need
>> a TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>> wrong to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type
>> in all cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type
>> of (say) ODU3/TS=2.5G - can you elaborate?
> 
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
> for an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
> and yet 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> ODU3/1.25G, this would be a valid path but somewhat
> counter-intuitive.
> 
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one
> is required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> infer the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> 
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> 
> Regards
> Jon
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and we have the following proposal.
> 
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).  (I think this was there are one time.)
> 
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> 
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> 
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j = k) case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com  Wed Jul 27 14:42:06 2011
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMeSTz6aFWJpZZTu+ZLLqKkvqZ0AAFbVQQAAM9t4AAAfi0kA==
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:42:02 +0000
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi Steve,

>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator know=
s they need" is a criteria regarding TS size

I think the following is a simplistic, but valid, scenario.

A --- ODU2 --- B --- ODU2 --- C

B can switch ODU2 only.  The operator requires an ODU2 H-LSP connecting A a=
nd C, and is going to use it to carry ODU0 or ODUflex LSPs.  The BC link th=
erefore must have a 1.25G TS granularity.  If the operator merely requests =
an ODU2 H-LSP without giving a TS size, they might not get what they wanted=
.

>> Different segments of the same connection can have different TS granular=
ities along the path

Agree - I think the TS granularity only potentially matters on the initial =
and final segments.

>> There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS granularity if t=
he HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity

Agree.  You might want to force a 1.25G TS granularity, but I can't see a u=
se case for forcing a 2.5G TS granularity.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent=
.com]=20
Sent: 27 July 2011 16:44
To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
Subject: RE: TS in Signaling

Hi all,
I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator knows t=
hey need" is a criteria regarding TS size.

>From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or LO O=
DU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over either 1.25G=
 or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the same connection can =
have different TS granularities along the path - it doesn't matter. If your=
 LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO ODUk must be 1.25G TS structu=
red, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3 mapped into a HO ODUk is only car=
ried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and presumably future larger ODUk) are onl=
y 1.25G TS structured. So the only "need" is that if you want to set up a L=
O ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3 connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G ca=
pable links. If you are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or=
 both on different segments of the connection.

As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the hardware on=
 both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G structuring, and=
 if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS granularity, they f=
all back to that. There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS g=
ranularity if the HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1=
.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of the same tributary types as a 2.5G=
 TS structured HO ODUk. If the hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operatio=
n, then it isn't going to work that way no matter what the operator wants.

So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk link (=
either because the control plane is told the results of the auto-negotiatio=
n, or if the control plane replicates the results of the auto-negotiation b=
y knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but I don't see where you =
are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
Regards,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
onathan Hardwick
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
To: John E Drake
Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi John,

I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I don'=
t think the signal type is the right place to do it.

>From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a TS gr=
anularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong to mandate=
 that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all cases.  I don't se=
e a use case for requesting a signal type of (say) ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you=
 elaborate?

The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible for an =
ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet 1.25G o=
n the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G, this would =
be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.

I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one is req=
uired) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer the requi=
red TS size from that and the signal type.

The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (=
PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,

Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling and =
we have the following proposal.

1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinations=
 to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I think this was=
 there are one time.)

2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size

The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori unde=
rstanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size=
 to be used on that link.

I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot bi=
t map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k) case.  Th=
e former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the l=
atter allows uniform processing in all cases.

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone


_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com  Wed Jul 27 14:44:56 2011
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: labn - Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMeSTz6aFWJpZZTu+ZLLqKkvqZ0AAFbVQQAALFeoAAAwtBAA==
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:44:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi Lou

I agree, we should explore the options.  I do like the idea of using G-PID.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: 27 July 2011 17:16
To: Jonathan Hardwick
Cc: John E Drake; CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Tspec was another spot I've been thinking about, but had reservations as
allocation is also more of a "per-hop" processed object.  Deborah also
suggested g-pid, which is worth some consideration.  clearly we have to
keep looking at the different options.

Lou (hat off)

On 7/27/2011 3:06 PM, Jonathan Hardwick wrote:
> Hi John,
>=20
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but
> I don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>=20
>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need
>> a TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>> wrong to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type
>> in all cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type
>> of (say) ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>=20
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
> for an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
> and yet 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> ODU3/1.25G, this would be a valid path but somewhat
> counter-intuitive.
>=20
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one
> is required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> infer the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>=20
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=
 John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO=
 (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling an=
d we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size combinatio=
ns to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I think this w=
as there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori un=
derstanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot si=
ze to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS slot =
bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k) case.  =
The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity check and the=
 latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John=20
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Jul 27 15:08:30 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>, Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:07:57 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a medical =
check-up for both of us is advised.

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi all,
> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>=20
> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or
> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the same
> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3
> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> different segments of the connection.
>=20
> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS
> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would ever
> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>=20
> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the auto-
> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but
> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
> Regards,
> Steve
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I
> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>=20
> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>=20
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible for
> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet
> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G,
> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>=20
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one is
> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>=20
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
> Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
> think this was there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
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> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From cyril.margaria@nsn.com  Wed Jul 27 15:11:03 2011
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From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: "ext Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>, "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2011 22:10:47.0673 (UTC) FILETIME=[09A2FE90:01CC4CAA]
Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi,=20

For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related
to the G-PID, and=20
also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OPU payload type
defined in G.709=20
table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to
use, except to derive
if PT 20 or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to
defined a new G-PID indicating
the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.

Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a
single multiplexing stage.=20
For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem as
a ODUk link provisioning,=20
So mechanism like G-PID can be used to enforce a given adaptation, or
LMP can be used to bring up the link with correlated properties, or
solution using signaling (one of them was
draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.

Best regards.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of ext Lou Berger
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
> To: Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Khuzema,
> 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be
> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem
> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused
> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>=20
> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first
> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which
> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
signaling
> an
> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested
> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an
> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal
> type.
>=20
> Lou (chair hat off)
>=20
> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was
> > between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
> > Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori,
> > the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
> >
> > The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
for
> > client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG
> > support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property
> > discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate
> > the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in
> > signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up
> > the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Khuzema
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
> > To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> GRANDI,
> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >
> > As are we all.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> >> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> >> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> >> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> >> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> >> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> >>
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
> >>
> >> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Fatai
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> >> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
> (SERGIO)"
> >> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> >> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO
> >> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema
> >> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> >> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> >> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >>
> >>
> >> Fatai,
> >>
> >> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the
> >> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> >>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> >> GRANDI,
> >>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> >>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> >>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
> this
> >>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
> the
> >>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
on
> >>> that link."
> >>>
> >>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
OSPF,
> >>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
> that
> >>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
TS
> >> and
> >>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> >>>
> >>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,
> >>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined
> >>> Signal
> >> Type).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Fatai
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> >>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
<sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> >>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
> >> PIETRO
> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> >>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> >>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> >>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;
> >>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> >>> Subject: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> >> signaling
> >>> and we have the following proposal.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & =
ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> (I
> >>> think this was there are one time.)
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
size
> >>>
> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> >> priori
> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> >>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> >>>
> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
TS
> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
=3D
> >> k)
> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> integrity
> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From cyril.margaria@nsn.com  Wed Jul 27 15:17:18 2011
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From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: "ext Jonathan Hardwick" <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2011 22:17:05.0931 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB1895B0:01CC4CAA]
Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi,=20

Please see inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of ext Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:42 PM
> To: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi Steve,
>=20
> >> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size
>=20
> I think the following is a simplistic, but valid, scenario.
>=20
> A --- ODU2 --- B --- ODU2 --- C
>=20
> B can switch ODU2 only.  The operator requires an ODU2 H-LSP
connecting
> A and C, and is going to use it to carry ODU0 or ODUflex LSPs.  The BC
> link therefore must have a 1.25G TS granularity.

I think stating that the *link* B-C is using a 1.25 TS granularity is
misleading
because node B do not see or know any TS.
When the ODU2 H-LSP is created it will create in the data plane a link
A-C, the=20
ODU2 trail will be terminated using an ODTU2.ts (i.e using 1.25 TS). =20

>  If the operator
> merely requests an ODU2 H-LSP without giving a TS size, they might not
> get what they wanted.
>=20
> >> Different segments of the same connection can have different TS
> granularities along the path
>=20
> Agree - I think the TS granularity only potentially matters on the
> initial and final segments.
>=20
> >> There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS granularity
> if the HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity
>=20
> Agree.  You might want to force a 1.25G TS granularity, but I can't
see
> a use case for forcing a 2.5G TS granularity.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: 27 July 2011 16:44
> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi all,
> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>=20
> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or
> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
same
> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3
> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> different segments of the connection.
>=20
> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G =
TS
> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would ever
> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>=20
> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
auto-
> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but
> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
> Regards,
> Steve
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I
> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>=20
> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>=20
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
for
> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet
> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G,
> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>=20
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one
is
> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>=20
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
> Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  =
(I
> think this was there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D =
k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Jul 27 15:55:38 2011
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From: "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>, ext Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:55:32 -0500
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMeSTz6aFWJpZZTu+ZLLqKkvqZ0AAFbVQQAAM9t4AAAfi0kAABoA/QAAE9lRA=
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi all,
A couple of points:
First of all, in the described scenario, if the HW terminating an ODU2 at "=
A" and the HW terminating the other end of that ODU2 at "C" are 1.25G TS ca=
pable, this ODU2 will auto-negotiate to 1.25G TS granularity. Assuming that=
 the ODU2 is just connected through at node B, it does not have anything to=
 do with the auto-negotiation.

While I fully agree that there will be cases like this where you set up a "=
middle-order" ODUk to tunnel ODU0 or ODUflex traffic across non-1.25G TS ca=
pable nodes, I have real doubts about whether these are ever anything but (=
manually) configured tunnels. I really don't see this ever being something =
auto-magically created by the control plane. If it were only ODU0 traffic t=
hat was of concern, I could see that you might set up ODU1s across a legacy=
 node and use one TS within the ODU1 for the ODU0, making available the oth=
er TS to carry another ODU0 if you have another that needs to traverse that=
 node. But for ODUflex, and especially now that ODUflex is resizable, how w=
ould you decide to set up an ODU2 instead of an ODU3 to tunnel the traffic =
across the legacy node? You want enough extra space for what the traffic mi=
ght grow to inside of the tunnel, but you don't want to waste bandwidth by =
setting up too much artificial fragmentation.
Regards,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 4:17 PM
To: ext Jonathan Hardwick; Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,=20

Please see inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of ext Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:42 PM
> To: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi Steve,
>=20
> >> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size
>=20
> I think the following is a simplistic, but valid, scenario.
>=20
> A --- ODU2 --- B --- ODU2 --- C
>=20
> B can switch ODU2 only.  The operator requires an ODU2 H-LSP
connecting
> A and C, and is going to use it to carry ODU0 or ODUflex LSPs.  The BC
> link therefore must have a 1.25G TS granularity.

I think stating that the *link* B-C is using a 1.25 TS granularity is
misleading
because node B do not see or know any TS.
When the ODU2 H-LSP is created it will create in the data plane a link
A-C, the=20
ODU2 trail will be terminated using an ODTU2.ts (i.e using 1.25 TS). =20

>  If the operator
> merely requests an ODU2 H-LSP without giving a TS size, they might not
> get what they wanted.
>=20
> >> Different segments of the same connection can have different TS
> granularities along the path
>=20
> Agree - I think the TS granularity only potentially matters on the
> initial and final segments.
>=20
> >> There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS granularity
> if the HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity
>=20
> Agree.  You might want to force a 1.25G TS granularity, but I can't
see
> a use case for forcing a 2.5G TS granularity.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: 27 July 2011 16:44
> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi all,
> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>=20
> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or
> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
same
> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3
> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> different segments of the connection.
>=20
> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS
> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would ever
> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>=20
> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
auto-
> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but
> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
> Regards,
> Steve
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I
> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>=20
> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>=20
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
for
> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet
> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G,
> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>=20
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one
is
> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>=20
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
> Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
> think this was there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com  Wed Jul 27 19:07:16 2011
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>, "NSN - Cyril Margaria" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxMeSTz6aFWJpZZTu+ZLLqKkvqZ0AAFbVQQAAM9t4AAAfi0kAABoA/QAAE9lRAABeVGAA==
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Cyril, Steve,

I agree with what you say, but I thought the problem we were trying to solv=
e was a bit different.

If node C has several interfaces, some of which are 1.25G TS capable and so=
me of which are not, then the control plane needs to know that it must sele=
ct one of the former sort.

If none of the hardware at node C is 1.25G TS capable, and the ODU2 auto-ne=
gotiates to a 2.5G TS, then the operator does not get what they want.  Alth=
ough this is a misconfiguration scenario, I think it would be better for th=
e control plane not to establish the LSP in this case.

I don't have a view on whether the control plane should manage the middle-o=
rder ODUs, but I would not like to rule it out.

If I have misunderstood the original problem, my apologies.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent=
.com]=20
Sent: 27 July 2011 18:56
To: NSN - Cyril Margaria; Jonathan Hardwick
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi all,
A couple of points:
First of all, in the described scenario, if the HW terminating an ODU2 at "=
A" and the HW terminating the other end of that ODU2 at "C" are 1.25G TS ca=
pable, this ODU2 will auto-negotiate to 1.25G TS granularity. Assuming that=
 the ODU2 is just connected through at node B, it does not have anything to=
 do with the auto-negotiation.

While I fully agree that there will be cases like this where you set up a "=
middle-order" ODUk to tunnel ODU0 or ODUflex traffic across non-1.25G TS ca=
pable nodes, I have real doubts about whether these are ever anything but (=
manually) configured tunnels. I really don't see this ever being something =
auto-magically created by the control plane. If it were only ODU0 traffic t=
hat was of concern, I could see that you might set up ODU1s across a legacy=
 node and use one TS within the ODU1 for the ODU0, making available the oth=
er TS to carry another ODU0 if you have another that needs to traverse that=
 node. But for ODUflex, and especially now that ODUflex is resizable, how w=
ould you decide to set up an ODU2 instead of an ODU3 to tunnel the traffic =
across the legacy node? You want enough extra space for what the traffic mi=
ght grow to inside of the tunnel, but you don't want to waste bandwidth by =
setting up too much artificial fragmentation.
Regards,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 4:17 PM
To: ext Jonathan Hardwick; Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,=20

Please see inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of ext Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:42 PM
> To: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi Steve,
>=20
> >> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size
>=20
> I think the following is a simplistic, but valid, scenario.
>=20
> A --- ODU2 --- B --- ODU2 --- C
>=20
> B can switch ODU2 only.  The operator requires an ODU2 H-LSP
connecting
> A and C, and is going to use it to carry ODU0 or ODUflex LSPs.  The BC
> link therefore must have a 1.25G TS granularity.

I think stating that the *link* B-C is using a 1.25 TS granularity is
misleading
because node B do not see or know any TS.
When the ODU2 H-LSP is created it will create in the data plane a link
A-C, the=20
ODU2 trail will be terminated using an ODTU2.ts (i.e using 1.25 TS). =20

>  If the operator
> merely requests an ODU2 H-LSP without giving a TS size, they might not
> get what they wanted.
>=20
> >> Different segments of the same connection can have different TS
> granularities along the path
>=20
> Agree - I think the TS granularity only potentially matters on the
> initial and final segments.
>=20
> >> There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS granularity
> if the HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity
>=20
> Agree.  You might want to force a 1.25G TS granularity, but I can't
see
> a use case for forcing a 2.5G TS granularity.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: 27 July 2011 16:44
> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi all,
> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>=20
> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or
> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
same
> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3
> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> different segments of the connection.
>=20
> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS
> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would ever
> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>=20
> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
auto-
> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but
> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
> Regards,
> Steve
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I
> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>=20
> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>=20
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
for
> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet
> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G,
> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>=20
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one
is
> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>=20
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
> Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
> think this was there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From blu@infinera.com  Wed Jul 27 22:44:43 2011
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From: Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>
To: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>, ext Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Hi folks:

I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG topi=
c.=20
Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the signalin=
g=20
requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message and without=20
knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But we need to carry=
=20
multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but not TSG.

Observations:
    1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is determined by=
 the hardware. =20
        A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.  A l=
ink that uses=20
        2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From Macolm's e=
mail).
    2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived from =
signal type + the
        number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1 signal, =
if there is only 1 bit
        set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we can =
derive TSG to be=20
        1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on curr=
ent label
        definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.

How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=3D1.25G) -----------=
-- Node B (TSG=3D2.5G) )=20
without each end knowing the remote TSG information?

      I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default scheme=
 should be used=20
      whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type bas=
ed on the server ODU.=20
      The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is: =20

          First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always compatibl=
e with remote end as if the
          remote end is with TSG=3D2.5G regardless local TSG value. If the =
default TS is not available,=20
          other TS can be used.=20
     =20
     With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will automati=
c pass traffic based on
     observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we mig=
ht get crankback=20
     from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't support=
ed by remote node
     I think this is acceptable.

H-LSP case:
         There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being setup=
 can support the client=20
         signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here.=20

         For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup,=20
         the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2 being =
setup needs=20
         to be able to support ODU0.

         In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP setu=
p, then the one end
         of H-LSP can have TSG=3D1.25G and the other end can have TSG=3D2.5=
G. This is still a valid
         H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.

        Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with specific m=
ultiplexing=20
        hierarchy not a simple adaption.

        Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
           What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing capability o=
f=20
           the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what cli=
ent signal type=20
           that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex cas=
e, more than one=20
           signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability will ne=
ed to be carried.=20

Biao

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of M=
argaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,=20

For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related to =
the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OPU =
payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 does=
 allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20 or 21 should be u=
sed. One potential solution would be to defined a new G-PID indicating the =
OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.

Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a sin=
gle multiplexing stage.=20
For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem as a O=
DUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to enforce a giv=
en adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link with correlated prop=
erties, or solution using signaling (one of them was
draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.

Best regards.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20
> Of ext Lou Berger
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
> To: Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Khuzema,
> 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be=20
> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem=20
> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused=20
> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>=20
> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first=20
> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which=20
> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
signaling
> an
> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested=20
> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an=20
> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal=20
> type.
>=20
> Lou (chair hat off)
>=20
> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was=20
> > between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
> > Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori,=20
> > the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
> >
> > The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
for
> > client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG=20
> > support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property=20
> > discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate=20
> > the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in=20
> > signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up=20
> > the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Khuzema
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
> > To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> GRANDI,
> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >
> > As are we all.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> >> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;=20
> >> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> >> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> >> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> >> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> >>
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
> >>
> >> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Fatai
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> >> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
> (SERGIO)"
> >> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> >> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=20
> >> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema=20
> >> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> >> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> >> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >>
> >>
> >> Fatai,
> >>
> >> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the=20
> >> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> >>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> >> GRANDI,
> >>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> >>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> >>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
> this
> >>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
> the
> >>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
on
> >>> that link."
> >>>
> >>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
OSPF,
> >>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
> that
> >>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
TS
> >> and
> >>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> >>>
> >>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,=20
> >>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined=20
> >>> Signal
> >> Type).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Fatai
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> >>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
<sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> >>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
> >> PIETRO
> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=20
> >>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;=20
> >>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> >>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;=20
> >>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> >>> Subject: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> >> signaling
> >>> and we have the following proposal.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size=20
> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> (I
> >>> think this was there are one time.)
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
size
> >>>
> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> >> priori
> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the=20
> >>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> >>>
> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
TS
> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
=3D
> >> k)
> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> integrity
> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Jul 28 01:28:47 2011
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From: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>, "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>, NSN - Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:28:26 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hello Jonathan,

I think you have stated correctly the problem.

Pardon me, if I use this reply in order to recap possible solutions up to n=
ow and considerations I have understood up to now:

1) Dedicated object for TS. It is end to end. It may not be used (for insta=
nce if no legacy is present in the network or an operator really does not c=
are about PT).

2) Usage of signal type + TS size (enumerative field) in the label object. =
It is end to end. Someone noted that it is end-to-end but not so much becau=
se it is in the label object and could be interpreted as trying to force in=
termediate nodes to choose a certain TS granularity while instead
granularity on intermediate nodes is a "don't care". It increases the numbe=
r of signal types but in very limited way (because only ODU1,ODU2 and ODU3 =
can be 1.25 or 2.5). It also forces to specify a TS size even if it is a do=
n't care.=20

3) Usage of G-PID defining new adaptation values: It is end to end.
I imagine they would be three values: one for PT 20, one for PT21 and the l=
ast for "structured with any PT" right ?=20

4) Traffic parameter modification. It is end to end.


Pietro   =20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
onathan Hardwick
Sent: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 4.07
To: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve); NSN - Cyril Margaria
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Cyril, Steve,

I agree with what you say, but I thought the problem we were trying to solv=
e was a bit different.

If node C has several interfaces, some of which are 1.25G TS capable and so=
me of which are not, then the control plane needs to know that it must sele=
ct one of the former sort.

If none of the hardware at node C is 1.25G TS capable, and the ODU2 auto-ne=
gotiates to a 2.5G TS, then the operator does not get what they want.  Alth=
ough this is a misconfiguration scenario, I think it would be better for th=
e control plane not to establish the LSP in this case.

I don't have a view on whether the control plane should manage the middle-o=
rder ODUs, but I would not like to rule it out.

If I have misunderstood the original problem, my apologies.

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-lucent=
.com]=20
Sent: 27 July 2011 18:56
To: NSN - Cyril Margaria; Jonathan Hardwick
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi all,
A couple of points:
First of all, in the described scenario, if the HW terminating an ODU2 at "=
A" and the HW terminating the other end of that ODU2 at "C" are 1.25G TS ca=
pable, this ODU2 will auto-negotiate to 1.25G TS granularity. Assuming that=
 the ODU2 is just connected through at node B, it does not have anything to=
 do with the auto-negotiation.

While I fully agree that there will be cases like this where you set up a "=
middle-order" ODUk to tunnel ODU0 or ODUflex traffic across non-1.25G TS ca=
pable nodes, I have real doubts about whether these are ever anything but (=
manually) configured tunnels. I really don't see this ever being something =
auto-magically created by the control plane. If it were only ODU0 traffic t=
hat was of concern, I could see that you might set up ODU1s across a legacy=
 node and use one TS within the ODU1 for the ODU0, making available the oth=
er TS to carry another ODU0 if you have another that needs to traverse that=
 node. But for ODUflex, and especially now that ODUflex is resizable, how w=
ould you decide to set up an ODU2 instead of an ODU3 to tunnel the traffic =
across the legacy node? You want enough extra space for what the traffic mi=
ght grow to inside of the tunnel, but you don't want to waste bandwidth by =
setting up too much artificial fragmentation.
Regards,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:cyril.margaria@nsn.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 4:17 PM
To: ext Jonathan Hardwick; Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,=20

Please see inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of ext Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:42 PM
> To: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi Steve,
>=20
> >> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size
>=20
> I think the following is a simplistic, but valid, scenario.
>=20
> A --- ODU2 --- B --- ODU2 --- C
>=20
> B can switch ODU2 only.  The operator requires an ODU2 H-LSP
connecting
> A and C, and is going to use it to carry ODU0 or ODUflex LSPs.  The BC
> link therefore must have a 1.25G TS granularity.

I think stating that the *link* B-C is using a 1.25 TS granularity is
misleading
because node B do not see or know any TS.
When the ODU2 H-LSP is created it will create in the data plane a link
A-C, the=20
ODU2 trail will be terminated using an ODTU2.ts (i.e using 1.25 TS). =20

>  If the operator
> merely requests an ODU2 H-LSP without giving a TS size, they might not
> get what they wanted.
>=20
> >> Different segments of the same connection can have different TS
> granularities along the path
>=20
> Agree - I think the TS granularity only potentially matters on the
> initial and final segments.
>=20
> >> There is no reason you would ever need to force 2.5G TS granularity
> if the HW on both sides can support 1.25G TS granularity
>=20
> Agree.  You might want to force a 1.25G TS granularity, but I can't
see
> a use case for forcing a 2.5G TS granularity.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: 27 July 2011 16:44
> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi all,
> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>=20
> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 or
> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
same
> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO ODU3
> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> different segments of the connection.
>=20
> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS
> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would ever
> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>=20
> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
auto-
> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), but
> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS granularity.
> Regards,
> Steve
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, but I
> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>=20
> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>=20
> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
for
> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and yet
> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were ODU3/1.25G,
> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>=20
> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where one
is
> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>=20
> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>=20
> Regards
> Jon
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
> Guoying
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in signaling
> and we have the following proposal.
>=20
> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
> think this was there are one time.)
>=20
> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>=20
> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-priori
> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
> slot size to be used on that link.
>=20
> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D k)
> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Thu Jul 28 03:52:01 2011
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:51:46 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>, "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>, ext Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Hi all,

TS field issue induces so much discussion, so I have to repeat something clearly (something I said before). 

Why I introduced TS field in the label format? because there is no length field for the variable bitmap in the label format of section 5.1,  I am trying to use TS (2 bits) to deduce the length of the variable bitmap for validation (ie., the role of TS field is equivalent to length field). If there is length field (at least 8 bits) for the variable bitmap, I agree that it does not need TS field in the label format, :-).

I almost completely agree on what Biao said, more specifically:

(1) A refinement description on TSG deduction: TSG (used by the downstream) can be deduced from signal type (in the traffic parameters) + OTUk/FA (in the RSVP-HOP) + length of the bitmap. 

(2) Fully agree with Biao on H-LSP case analysis.



Fatai

Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Biao Lu" <blu@infinera.com>
To: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>; "ext Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
Cc: "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP


> Hi folks:
> 
> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG topic. 
> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the signaling 
> requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message and without 
> knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But we need to carry 
> multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but not TSG.
> 
> Observations:
>    1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is determined by the hardware.  
>        A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.  A link that uses 
>        2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From Macolm's email).
>    2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived from signal type + the
>        number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1 signal, if there is only 1 bit
>        set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we can derive TSG to be 
>        1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on current label
>        definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
> 
> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=1.25G) ------------- Node B (TSG=2.5G) ) 
> without each end knowing the remote TSG information?
> 
>      I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default scheme should be used 
>      whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type based on the server ODU. 
>      The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is:  
> 
>          First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always compatible with remote end as if the
>          remote end is with TSG=2.5G regardless local TSG value. If the default TS is not available, 
>          other TS can be used. 
>      
>     With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will automatic pass traffic based on
>     observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we might get crankback 
>     from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't supported by remote node
>     I think this is acceptable.
> 
> H-LSP case:
>         There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being setup can support the client 
>         signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here. 
> 
>         For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup, 
>         the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2 being setup needs 
>         to be able to support ODU0.
> 
>         In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP setup, then the one end
>         of H-LSP can have TSG=1.25G and the other end can have TSG=2.5G. This is still a valid
>         H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
> 
>        Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with specific multiplexing 
>        hierarchy not a simple adaption.
> 
>        Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>           What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing capability of 
>           the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what client signal type 
>           that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex case, more than one 
>           signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability will need to be carried. 
> 
> Biao
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related to the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OPU payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20 or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to defined a new G-PID indicating the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
> 
> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a single multiplexing stage. 
> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them was
> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf 
>> Of ext Lou Berger
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
>> To: Khuzema Pithewan
>> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>> 
>> Khuzema,
>> I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be 
>> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem 
>> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused 
>> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>> 
>> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first 
>> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which 
>> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
> signaling
>> an
>> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested 
>> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
>> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an 
>> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal 
>> type.
>> 
>> Lou (chair hat off)
>> 
>> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
>> > John,
>> >
>> > TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was 
>> > between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
>> > Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori, 
>> > the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
>> >
>> > The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
> for
>> > client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG 
>> > support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property 
>> > discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate 
>> > the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in 
>> > signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up 
>> > the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Khuzema
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
>> > To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>> GRANDI,
>> > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>> > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>> > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>> > Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>> >
>> > As are we all.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
>> >> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; 
>> >> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>> >> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>> >> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>> >> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>> >>
>> >> Hi John,
>> >>
>> >> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>> >>
>> >> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Fatai
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>> >> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
>> (SERGIO)"
>> >> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>> >> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO 
>> >> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema 
>> >> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>> >> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
>> >> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Fatai,
>> >>
>> >> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the 
>> >> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
>> >>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>> >> GRANDI,
>> >>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>> >>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>> >>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>> >>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
>> this
>> >>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
>> the
>> >>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
> on
>> >>> that link."
>> >>>
>> >>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> OSPF,
>> >>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
>> that
>> >>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
> TS
>> >> and
>> >>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, 
>> >>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined 
>> >>> Signal
>> >> Type).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Fatai
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>> >>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
>> >>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
>> >> PIETRO
>> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel- 
>> >>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; 
>> >>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>> >>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; 
>> >>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
>> >>> Subject: TS in Signaling
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>> >> signaling
>> >>> and we have the following proposal.
>> >>>
>> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size 
>> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).
>> (I
>> >>> think this was there are one time.)
>> >>>
>> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
>> >>>
>> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>> >> priori
>> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the 
>> >>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
>> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =
>> >> k)
>> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>> integrity
>> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> John
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From lberger@labn.net  Thu Jul 28 04:40:43 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Biao,

WRT topic 1: link level
Label allocation will certainly need to represent the TS(s) allocated
for an LSP.  A scheme along the lines you suggest is likely to be needed
and is likely to fall out of standard label negotiation, but it would be
better for nodes to know this per link information before signaling
begins and to avoid "probes"/negotiation.  Historically such "discovery"
is supported in GMPLS through link management, i.e., configuration or
LMP.  As others have said before, and I agree, I'd expect that a node to
learn it's neighbor's supported TSG via configuration or LMP.  Of course
this does mean that we'll need some work on LMP.

WRT topic 2: H-LSPs
I think what you're saying is consistent with the general discussion
(and the reverse).  It sounds to me that you're proposing that in the
simple case, the end-to-end information indicate the smallest ODU
supported by the H-LSP. Is this correct?

What do think is needed to represent the cases where this is insufficient?

Lou


On 7/28/2011 1:44 AM, Biao Lu wrote:
> Hi folks:
> 
> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG topic. 
> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the signaling 
> requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message and without 
> knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But we need to carry 
> multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but not TSG.
> 
> Observations:
>     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is determined by the hardware.  
>         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.  A link that uses 
>         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From Macolm's email).
>     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived from signal type + the
>         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1 signal, if there is only 1 bit
>         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we can derive TSG to be 
>         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on current label
>         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
> 
> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=1.25G) ------------- Node B (TSG=2.5G) ) 
> without each end knowing the remote TSG information?
> 
>       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default scheme should be used 
>       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type based on the server ODU. 
>       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is:  
> 
>           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always compatible with remote end as if the
>           remote end is with TSG=2.5G regardless local TSG value. If the default TS is not available, 
>           other TS can be used. 
>       
>      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will automatic pass traffic based on
>      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we might get crankback 
>      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't supported by remote node
>      I think this is acceptable.
> 
> H-LSP case:
>          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being setup can support the client 
>          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here. 
> 
>          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup, 
>          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2 being setup needs 
>          to be able to support ODU0.
> 
>          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP setup, then the one end
>          of H-LSP can have TSG=1.25G and the other end can have TSG=2.5G. This is still a valid
>          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
> 
>         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with specific multiplexing 
>         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
> 
>         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing capability of 
>            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what client signal type 
>            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex case, more than one 
>            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability will need to be carried. 
> 
> Biao
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related to the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OPU payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20 or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to defined a new G-PID indicating the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
> 
> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a single multiplexing stage. 
> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them was
> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf 
>> Of ext Lou Berger
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
>> To: Khuzema Pithewan
>> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Khuzema,
>> 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be 
>> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem 
>> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused 
>> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>>
>> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first 
>> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which 
>> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
> signaling
>> an
>> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested 
>> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
>> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an 
>> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal 
>> type.
>>
>> Lou (chair hat off)
>>
>> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was 
>>> between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
>>> Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori, 
>>> the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
>>>
>>> The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
> for
>>> client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG 
>>> support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property 
>>> discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate 
>>> the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in 
>>> signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up 
>>> the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Khuzema
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
>>> To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>> GRANDI,
>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> As are we all.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; 
>>>> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>>>>
>>>> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatai
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
>> (SERGIO)"
>>>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>>> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO 
>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema 
>>>> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatai,
>>>>
>>>> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the 
>>>> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>>>> GRANDI,
>>>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
>> this
>>>>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
>> the
>>>>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
> on
>>>>> that link."
>>>>>
>>>>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> OSPF,
>>>>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
>> that
>>>>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
> TS
>>>> and
>>>>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, 
>>>>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined 
>>>>> Signal
>>>> Type).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
>>>>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
>>>> PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel- 
>>>>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; 
>>>>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; 
>>>>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
>>>>> Subject: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>> signaling
>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size 
>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).
>> (I
>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
>>>>>
>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>> priori
>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the 
>>>>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =
>>>> k)
>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>> integrity
>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> 

From jdrake@juniper.net  Thu Jul 28 05:42:09 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>, "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>, ext Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 05:40:04 -0700
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Biao,

Wrt your comments about TS size, there doesn't seem to be consensus as to w=
hether the auto-detect procedure is mandatory between the nodes at either e=
nd of an ODUk/OTUk link.  If it is then it will determine the correct tribu=
tary size and tell both nodes' control planes;  hence, TS size is not requi=
red in signaling.

If auto-discovery is not mandatory, then the nodes at either end of the lin=
k can each announce the TS size of their interface in routing by adding a f=
ield (or fields) in the ISCD.  The control planes in the nodes can then eff=
ectively run the auto-discovery procedure and determine the correct tributa=
ry size; again, TS size is not required in signaling. =20

Lou, Fatai, and I proposed yesterday to have a common definition between ro=
uting and signaling simply to keep everything consistent and to anticipate =
the case of different TS size by signal type in the future.

Wrt your comments about hierarchical LSPs, I think they are correct but app=
ly more generally to ODUk/OTUk links as well.  Viz, either a hierarchical L=
SP or an ODUk/OTUk link can concurrently support multiple paths (single or =
multi-stage) through the OTN hierarchy.

I think this means that when a hierarchical LSP between a pair of interface=
s is established, *none* of the paths through the OTN hierarchy should be s=
pecified at the time of its establishment.  So, what we are establishing is=
 a pipe, very similar to an ODUk/OTUk link.  (Jonathan used something like =
"GPID =3D explicit null" to refer to this mode of LSP establishment.)

Subsequently, as we discussed earlier this week, if an ODUj needs to establ=
ished over either a hierarchical LSP or an ODUj/OTUk link, any necessary in=
termediate LSPs are explicitly signaled and then the ODUj is signaled.

Should I use 'sequence of OTN multiplexing stages' rather the 'path through=
 the OTN hierarchy'?

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Biao Lu
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:45 PM
> To: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not
> needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
>=20
> Hi folks:
>=20
> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG
> topic.
> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the
> signaling
> requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message and without
> knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But we need to
> carry
> multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but not TSG.
>=20
> Observations:
>     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is
> determined by the hardware.
>         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.
> A link that uses
>         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From
> Macolm's email).
>     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived
> from signal type + the
>         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1
> signal, if there is only 1 bit
>         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we
> can derive TSG to be
>         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on
> current label
>         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
>=20
> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=3D1.25G) ---------
> ---- Node B (TSG=3D2.5G) )
> without each end knowing the remote TSG information?
>=20
>       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default
> scheme should be used
>       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type
> based on the server ODU.
>       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is:
>=20
>           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always
> compatible with remote end as if the
>           remote end is with TSG=3D2.5G regardless local TSG value. If
> the default TS is not available,
>           other TS can be used.
>=20
>      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will
> automatic pass traffic based on
>      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we
> might get crankback
>      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't
> supported by remote node
>      I think this is acceptable.
>=20
> H-LSP case:
>          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being
> setup can support the client
>          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here.
>=20
>          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup,
>          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2
> being setup needs
>          to be able to support ODU0.
>=20
>          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP
> setup, then the one end
>          of H-LSP can have TSG=3D1.25G and the other end can have
> TSG=3D2.5G. This is still a valid
>          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
>=20
>         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with
> specific multiplexing
>         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
>=20
>         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing
> capability of
>            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what
> client signal type
>            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex
> case, more than one
>            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability
> will need to be carried.
>=20
> Biao
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related
> to the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of
> the OPU payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in
> RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20
> or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to defined a new
> G-PID indicating the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
>=20
> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a
> single multiplexing stage.
> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem as
> a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to
> enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link
> with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them
> was
> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
>=20
> Best regards.
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of ext Lou Berger
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
> > To: Khuzema Pithewan
> > Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Khuzema,
> > 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be
> > convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem
> > with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused
> > values and are talking about using 3 of these.
> >
> > My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first
> > is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which
> > is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
> signaling
> > an
> > OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested
> > for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
> > LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an
> > field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal
> > type.
> >
> > Lou (chair hat off)
> >
> > On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> > > John,
> > >
> > > TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was
> > > between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
> > > Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a
> priori,
> > > the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
> > >
> > > The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
> for
> > > client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG
> > > support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property
> > > discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate
> > > the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in
> > > signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up
> > > the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Khuzema
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
> > > To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > GRANDI,
> > > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > > Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >
> > > As are we all.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> > >> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > >> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > >> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > >> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > >> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> > >>
> > >> Hi John,
> > >>
> > >> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
> > >>
> > >> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Fatai
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > >> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
> > (SERGIO)"
> > >> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> > >> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema
> > >> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > >> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> > >> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Fatai,
> > >>
> > >> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the
> > >> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> > >>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > >> GRANDI,
> > >>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > >>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > >>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
> > this
> > >>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
> > the
> > >>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
> on
> > >>> that link."
> > >>>
> > >>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> OSPF,
> > >>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
> > that
> > >>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
> TS
> > >> and
> > >>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,
> > >>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined
> > >>> Signal
> > >> Type).
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > >>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> > >>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
> > >> PIETRO
> > >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > >>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> > >>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > >>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;
> > >>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> > >>> Subject: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> > >> signaling
> > >>> and we have the following proposal.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> > >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G)=
.
> > (I
> > >>> think this was there are one time.)
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
> > >>>
> > >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> > >> priori
> > >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> > >>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
> > >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =3D
> > >> k)
> > >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> > integrity
> > >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Thu Jul 28 06:17:48 2011
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:14:55 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Hi Lou,

Sorry for without careful review on some of the words from Biao.

I agree that TS size should be known by the both ends of a link through configuration or LMP before connection establishment, because crankback is not a good idea.

This kind of work for LMP has been captured in [draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-lmp-discovery-04.txt].


Fatai

Thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>
To: "Biao Lu" <blu@infinera.com>
Cc: "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP


> Biao,
> 
> WRT topic 1: link level
> Label allocation will certainly need to represent the TS(s) allocated
> for an LSP.  A scheme along the lines you suggest is likely to be needed
> and is likely to fall out of standard label negotiation, but it would be
> better for nodes to know this per link information before signaling
> begins and to avoid "probes"/negotiation.  Historically such "discovery"
> is supported in GMPLS through link management, i.e., configuration or
> LMP.  As others have said before, and I agree, I'd expect that a node to
> learn it's neighbor's supported TSG via configuration or LMP.  Of course
> this does mean that we'll need some work on LMP.
> 
> WRT topic 2: H-LSPs
> I think what you're saying is consistent with the general discussion
> (and the reverse).  It sounds to me that you're proposing that in the
> simple case, the end-to-end information indicate the smallest ODU
> supported by the H-LSP. Is this correct?
> 
> What do think is needed to represent the cases where this is insufficient?
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> On 7/28/2011 1:44 AM, Biao Lu wrote:
>> Hi folks:
>> 
>> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG topic. 
>> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the signaling 
>> requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message and without 
>> knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But we need to carry 
>> multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but not TSG.
>> 
>> Observations:
>>     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is determined by the hardware.  
>>         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.  A link that uses 
>>         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From Macolm's email).
>>     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived from signal type + the
>>         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1 signal, if there is only 1 bit
>>         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we can derive TSG to be 
>>         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on current label
>>         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
>> 
>> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=1.25G) ------------- Node B (TSG=2.5G) ) 
>> without each end knowing the remote TSG information?
>> 
>>       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default scheme should be used 
>>       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type based on the server ODU. 
>>       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is:  
>> 
>>           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always compatible with remote end as if the
>>           remote end is with TSG=2.5G regardless local TSG value. If the default TS is not available, 
>>           other TS can be used. 
>>       
>>      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will automatic pass traffic based on
>>      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we might get crankback 
>>      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't supported by remote node
>>      I think this is acceptable.
>> 
>> H-LSP case:
>>          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being setup can support the client 
>>          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here. 
>> 
>>          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup, 
>>          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2 being setup needs 
>>          to be able to support ODU0.
>> 
>>          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP setup, then the one end
>>          of H-LSP can have TSG=1.25G and the other end can have TSG=2.5G. This is still a valid
>>          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
>> 
>>         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with specific multiplexing 
>>         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
>> 
>>         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>>            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing capability of 
>>            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what client signal type 
>>            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex case, more than one 
>>            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability will need to be carried. 
>> 
>> Biao
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
>> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
>> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related to the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OPU payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20 or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to defined a new G-PID indicating the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
>> 
>> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a single multiplexing stage. 
>> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them was
>> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
>> 
>> Best regards.
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf 
>>> Of ext Lou Berger
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
>>> To: Khuzema Pithewan
>>> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Khuzema,
>>> I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be 
>>> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem 
>>> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused 
>>> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first 
>>> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which 
>>> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
>> signaling
>>> an
>>> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested 
>>> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
>>> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an 
>>> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal 
>>> type.
>>>
>>> Lou (chair hat off)
>>>
>>> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was 
>>>> between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
>>>> Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori, 
>>>> the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
>>>>
>>>> The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
>> for
>>>> client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG 
>>>> support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property 
>>>> discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate 
>>>> the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in 
>>>> signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up 
>>>> the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Khuzema
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>> To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>>> GRANDI,
>>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> As are we all.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; 
>>>>> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>>> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>> (SERGIO)"
>>>>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>>>> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO 
>>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema 
>>>>> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the 
>>>>> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>>>>> GRANDI,
>>>>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan; 
>>>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
>>> this
>>>>>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
>>> the
>>>>>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
>> on
>>>>>> that link."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
>> OSPF,
>>>>>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
>>> that
>>>>>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
>> TS
>>>>> and
>>>>>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format, 
>>>>>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined 
>>>>>> Signal
>>>>> Type).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>>>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
>>>>>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
>>>>> PIETRO
>>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel- 
>>>>>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; 
>>>>>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>; 
>>>>>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
>>>>>> Subject: TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>>> signaling
>>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size 
>>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).
>>> (I
>>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
>> size
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>>> priori
>>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the 
>>>>>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
>> TS
>>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
>> =
>>>>> k)
>>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>>> integrity
>>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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From: Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Lou,

WRT topic #1: I agree with your points. I was referring to signaling encodi=
ng/procedure. We need link mgmt to understand tributary slot usage (this ma=
y include the TSG information). The point that I am trying to make is that =
signaling will still work if such information is absent if a default alloca=
tion scheme is used.=20

WRT topic #2: I won't say that I am suggesting a simple case here. :) It is=
 probably a more general case. The discussion in the group so far seems mos=
tly focusing on TSG. But I think it is more important to focus on adaption =
capability of the H-LSP (i.e. the client signal needs to be mapped to the H=
-LSP). Once we have the adaptation information, the TSG information is not =
needed. Of course, topic #1 also applies here for H-LSP. Cyril Margaria's e=
mail also touched on adaption topic.

Biao

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:41 AM
To: Biao Lu
Cc: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); Khuzema Pithewan; CCAMP; zhangguoyin=
g@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not need=
ed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP

Biao,

WRT topic 1: link level
Label allocation will certainly need to represent the TS(s) allocated for a=
n LSP.  A scheme along the lines you suggest is likely to be needed and is =
likely to fall out of standard label negotiation, but it would be better fo=
r nodes to know this per link information before signaling begins and to av=
oid "probes"/negotiation.  Historically such "discovery"
is supported in GMPLS through link management, i.e., configuration or LMP. =
 As others have said before, and I agree, I'd expect that a node to learn i=
t's neighbor's supported TSG via configuration or LMP.  Of course this does=
 mean that we'll need some work on LMP.

WRT topic 2: H-LSPs
I think what you're saying is consistent with the general discussion (and t=
he reverse).  It sounds to me that you're proposing that in the simple case=
, the end-to-end information indicate the smallest ODU supported by the H-L=
SP. Is this correct?

What do think is needed to represent the cases where this is insufficient?

Lou


On 7/28/2011 1:44 AM, Biao Lu wrote:
> Hi folks:
>=20
> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG to=
pic.=20
> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the=20
> signaling requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message=20
> and without knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But=20
> we need to carry multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but =
not TSG.
>=20
> Observations:
>     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is determined =
by the hardware. =20
>         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.  A=
 link that uses=20
>         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From Macolm's=
 email).
>     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived fro=
m signal type + the
>         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1 signal=
, if there is only 1 bit
>         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we ca=
n derive TSG to be=20
>         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on cu=
rrent label
>         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
>=20
> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=3D1.25G)=20
> ------------- Node B (TSG=3D2.5G) ) without each end knowing the remote T=
SG information?
>=20
>       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default sche=
me should be used=20
>       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type b=
ased on the server ODU.=20
>       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is: =20
>=20
>           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always compati=
ble with remote end as if the
>           remote end is with TSG=3D2.5G regardless local TSG value. If th=
e default TS is not available,=20
>           other TS can be used.=20
>      =20
>      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will automa=
tic pass traffic based on
>      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we m=
ight get crankback=20
>      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't suppo=
rted by remote node
>      I think this is acceptable.
>=20
> H-LSP case:
>          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being set=
up can support the client=20
>          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here.=20
>=20
>          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup,=20
>          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2 bein=
g setup needs=20
>          to be able to support ODU0.
>=20
>          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP se=
tup, then the one end
>          of H-LSP can have TSG=3D1.25G and the other end can have TSG=3D2=
.5G. This is still a valid
>          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
>=20
>         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with specific=
 multiplexing=20
>         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
>=20
>         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing capability=
 of=20
>            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what c=
lient signal type=20
>            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex c=
ase, more than one=20
>            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability will =
need to be carried.=20
>=20
> Biao
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20
> Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related t=
o the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OP=
U payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 do=
es allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20 or 21 should be=
 used. One potential solution would be to defined a new G-PID indicating th=
e OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
>=20
> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a s=
ingle multiplexing stage.=20
> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem=20
> as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to=20
> enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link=20
> with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them=20
> was
> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
>=20
> Best regards.
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
>> Behalf Of ext Lou Berger
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
>> To: Khuzema Pithewan
>> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Khuzema,
>> 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be=20
>> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem=20
>> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused=20
>> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>>
>> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first=20
>> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which=20
>> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
> signaling
>> an
>> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested=20
>> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
>> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an=20
>> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal=20
>> type.
>>
>> Lou (chair hat off)
>>
>> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was=20
>>> between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
>>> Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori,=20
>>> the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
>>>
>>> The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
> for
>>> client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG=20
>>> support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property=20
>>> discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate=20
>>> the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in=20
>>> signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up=20
>>> the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Khuzema
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
>>> To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>> GRANDI,
>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> As are we all.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;=20
>>>> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>>>>
>>>> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatai
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
>> (SERGIO)"
>>>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>>> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=20
>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema=20
>>>> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatai,
>>>>
>>>> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the=20
>>>> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>>>> GRANDI,
>>>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
>>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
>> this
>>>>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
>> the
>>>>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
> on
>>>>> that link."
>>>>>
>>>>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> OSPF,
>>>>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
>> that
>>>>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
> TS
>>>> and
>>>>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,=20
>>>>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined=20
>>>>> Signal
>>>> Type).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
>>>>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
>>>> PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=20
>>>>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;=20
>>>>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;=20
>>>>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
>>>>> Subject: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>> signaling
>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size=20
>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
>> (I
>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
>>>>>
>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>> priori
>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the=20
>>>>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =3D
>>>> k)
>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>> integrity
>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
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>=20
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From blu@infinera.com  Thu Jul 28 06:52:58 2011
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From: Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>, ext Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Khuzema Pithewan <kpithewan@infinera.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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John:

For TS size, there might be a confusion on this. The hardware is not doing =
TS size negotiation. Here is my understanding from current definition of G.=
709v3 (correct me if I am wrong):

   For a link of OTU2 with Node A (TSG=3D1.25G) ------------ Node B (TSG=3D=
2.G), if there is no path=20
   provisioned or sending traffic on this link, hardware will _not_ know re=
mote TSG information.
=20
   What hardware can do is:=20
   Once a ODU1 is provisioned and passing traffic, initially, Node A will=20
   send with PT=3D21 for the ODU1, and node B will send with PT=3D20 for th=
e ODU1. Once Node A=20
   receives PT=3D20, it will start sending using PT=3D20 instead of PT=3D21=
.

   This is adaption fallback procedure not TSG negotiation procedure. Node =
B may or may not know
   The TSG information of Node A even after passing traffic.

As for future proof for new TS size, it is probably better not to explicit =
encode TSG at all=20
because we don't know what kind of TS size is going to come in the future.

I agree that H-LSP case applies more generally to ODUk/OTUk links as well. =
I need to sync up
with you on the rest.

Thanks,
Biao


-----Original Message-----
From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:40 AM
To: Biao Lu; Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pit=
hewan
Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not need=
ed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP

Biao,

Wrt your comments about TS size, there doesn't seem to be consensus as to w=
hether the auto-detect procedure is mandatory between the nodes at either e=
nd of an ODUk/OTUk link.  If it is then it will determine the correct tribu=
tary size and tell both nodes' control planes;  hence, TS size is not requi=
red in signaling.

If auto-discovery is not mandatory, then the nodes at either end of the lin=
k can each announce the TS size of their interface in routing by adding a f=
ield (or fields) in the ISCD.  The control planes in the nodes can then eff=
ectively run the auto-discovery procedure and determine the correct tributa=
ry size; again, TS size is not required in signaling. =20

Lou, Fatai, and I proposed yesterday to have a common definition between ro=
uting and signaling simply to keep everything consistent and to anticipate =
the case of different TS size by signal type in the future.

Wrt your comments about hierarchical LSPs, I think they are correct but app=
ly more generally to ODUk/OTUk links as well.  Viz, either a hierarchical L=
SP or an ODUk/OTUk link can concurrently support multiple paths (single or =
multi-stage) through the OTN hierarchy.

I think this means that when a hierarchical LSP between a pair of interface=
s is established, *none* of the paths through the OTN hierarchy should be s=
pecified at the time of its establishment.  So, what we are establishing is=
 a pipe, very similar to an ODUk/OTUk link.  (Jonathan used something like =
"GPID =3D explicit null" to refer to this mode of LSP establishment.)

Subsequently, as we discussed earlier this week, if an ODUj needs to establ=
ished over either a hierarchical LSP or an ODUj/OTUk link, any necessary in=
termediate LSPs are explicitly signaled and then the ODUj is signaled.

Should I use 'sequence of OTN multiplexing stages' rather the 'path through=
 the OTN hierarchy'?

Thanks,

John=20

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20
> Of Biao Lu
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:45 PM
> To: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Lou Berger; Khuzema=20
> Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not=20
> needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
>=20
> Hi folks:
>=20
> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG=20
> topic.
> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the=20
> signaling requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message=20
> and without knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But=20
> we need to carry multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup=20
> but not TSG.
>=20
> Observations:
>     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is=20
> determined by the hardware.
>         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.
> A link that uses
>         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From=20
> Macolm's email).
>     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived=20
> from signal type + the
>         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1=20
> signal, if there is only 1 bit
>         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we=20
> can derive TSG to be
>         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on=20
> current label
>         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
>=20
> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=3D1.25G)=20
> ---------
> ---- Node B (TSG=3D2.5G) )
> without each end knowing the remote TSG information?
>=20
>       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default=20
> scheme should be used
>       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal=20
> type based on the server ODU.
>       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is:
>=20
>           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always=20
> compatible with remote end as if the
>           remote end is with TSG=3D2.5G regardless local TSG value. If=20
> the default TS is not available,
>           other TS can be used.
>=20
>      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will=20
> automatic pass traffic based on
>      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information,=20
> we might get crankback
>      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't=20
> supported by remote node
>      I think this is acceptable.
>=20
> H-LSP case:
>          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being=20
> setup can support the client
>          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here.
>=20
>          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup,
>          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2=20
> being setup needs
>          to be able to support ODU0.
>=20
>          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP=20
> setup, then the one end
>          of H-LSP can have TSG=3D1.25G and the other end can have=20
> TSG=3D2.5G. This is still a valid
>          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
>=20
>         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with=20
> specific multiplexing
>         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
>=20
>         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing=20
> capability of
>            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry=20
> what client signal type
>            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more=20
> complex case, more than one
>            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability=20
> will need to be carried.
>=20
> Biao
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20
> Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is=20
> related to the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or=20
> any of the OPU payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID=20
> defined in
> RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20=20
> or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to defined a new=20
> G-PID indicating the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
>=20
> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of=20
> a single multiplexing stage.
> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem=20
> as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to=20
> enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link=20
> with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them=20
> was
> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
>=20
> Best regards.
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of ext Lou Berger
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
> > To: Khuzema Pithewan
> > Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Khuzema,
> > 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be=20
> > convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem=20
> > with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused=20
> > values and are talking about using 3 of these.
> >
> > My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The=20
> > first is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The=20
> > second, which is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type,=20
> > is when
> signaling
> > an
> > OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested=20
> > for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the=20
> > H-
> > LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an=20
> > field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal=20
> > type.
> >
> > Lou (chair hat off)
> >
> > On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> > > John,
> > >
> > > TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was=20
> > > between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
> > > Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a
> priori,
> > > the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
> > >
> > > The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
> for
> > > client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG=20
> > > support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property=20
> > > discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to=20
> > > communicate the property. We prefer a separate object that carries=20
> > > TSG in signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just=20
> > > blow up the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Khuzema
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
> > > To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > GRANDI,
> > > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> > > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > > Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >
> > > As are we all.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> > >> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;=20
> > >> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> > >> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > >> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > >> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> > >>
> > >> Hi John,
> > >>
> > >> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
> > >>
> > >> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Fatai
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > >> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
> > (SERGIO)"
> > >> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> > >> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> (PIETRO
> > >> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema=20
> > >> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > >> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> > >> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Fatai,
> > >>
> > >> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the=20
> > >> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> > >>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > >> GRANDI,
> > >>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
> > >>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > >>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
> > this
> > >>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
> > the
> > >>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
> on
> > >>> that link."
> > >>>
> > >>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> OSPF,
> > >>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
> > that
> > >>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
> TS
> > >> and
> > >>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,=20
> > >>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined=20
> > >>> Signal
> > >> Type).
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > >>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> > >>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
> > >> PIETRO
> > >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=20
> > >>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;=20
> > >>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > >>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;=20
> > >>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> > >>> Subject: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> > >> signaling
> > >>> and we have the following proposal.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size=20
> > >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G)=
.
> > (I
> > >>> think this was there are one time.)
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
> > >>>
> > >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> > >> priori
> > >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the=20
> > >>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
> > >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping=20
> > >>> (j
> =3D
> > >> k)
> > >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> > integrity
> > >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From cyril.margaria@nsn.com  Thu Jul 28 07:06:00 2011
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Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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From: "Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)" <cyril.margaria@nsn.com>
To: "ext Biao Lu" <blu@infinera.com>, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>, "ext Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>, "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Hi,=20
I think the correct reference would be to refer to G.798 (10/2010)
clause 14.4.10=20
"PT:=20

The function shall insert code "0010 0001" (ODU multiplex structure
supporting ODTUk.ts or
ODTUk.ts and ODTUjk) into the PT byte position of the PSI overhead as
defined in clause 15.9.2.1
of [ITU-T G.709] for k=3D4.

For k=3D2,3 the inserted PT code shall default to code "0010 0001". This
code may be replaced by
code "0010 0000" under control of the PT=3D21-to-PT=3D20 interworking
process described hereafter.
**When MI AUTOpayloadtype is activated** the function shall adapt a PT21
supporting port to a PT20
structure.
If the corresponding adaptation Sink provides the information of a =
PT=3D20
at the RI_ AcPT the
function shall fall back to PT=3D20 under the following conditions: The
MI_AUTOpayloadtype is
true and the HO ODU source is either not provisioned for any traffic
signal structure, or the HO
ODU2 source configured for one or more ODU1 signals to be mapped into
TS1/TS5 and/or
TS2/TS6 and/or TS3/TS7 and/or TS4/TS8, or the HO ODU3 source is
configured to support one or
more ODU1 signals mapped into TS1/TS17, TS2/TS18, TSi/TS16+I and/or one
or more ODU2
signals mapped into TSa/TS16+a/TSb/TS16+b/TSc/TS16+c/TSd/TS16+16 and no
other ODU type
signals. In this case the function shall insert PT20 into the PSI
positions.
In the case the ODU2 or ODU3 adaptation source is configured for either
ODU0,
or an ODUflex, or
an ODU2e, or for an ODU1 in TSi/TSj with j<>4+i (for ODU2) or j<>16+I
(for ODU3) then PT21
is to be inserted. The inserted PT shall be reported at the
ODUkP/ODUj-21_A_So_RI_TrPT to the
corresponding adaptation sink function and the
ODUkP/ODUj-21_A_So_MI_TrPT."

So my understanding of this rather dense statement is that if
auto-negotiation is active=20
(it seems allowed to de-activate it) the PT will be negotiated by the
data plane, but this
Is not strictly mandatory.

If both end of the ODUk link do not agree compatibility rules have to be
used.

Feel free to correct me if I missed something.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Biao Lu [mailto:blu@infinera.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:53 AM
> To: John E Drake; Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Lou Berger;
> Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not
> needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
>=20
> John:
>=20
> For TS size, there might be a confusion on this. The hardware is not
> doing TS size negotiation. Here is my understanding from current
> definition of G.709v3 (correct me if I am wrong):
>=20
>    For a link of OTU2 with Node A (TSG=3D1.25G) ------------ Node B
> (TSG=3D2.G), if there is no path
>    provisioned or sending traffic on this link, hardware will _not_
> know remote TSG information.
>=20
>    What hardware can do is:
>    Once a ODU1 is provisioned and passing traffic, initially, Node A
> will
>    send with PT=3D21 for the ODU1, and node B will send with PT=3D20 =
for
> the ODU1. Once Node A
>    receives PT=3D20, it will start sending using PT=3D20 instead of =
PT=3D21.
>=20
>    This is adaption fallback procedure not TSG negotiation procedure.
> Node B may or may not know
>    The TSG information of Node A even after passing traffic.
>=20
> As for future proof for new TS size, it is probably better not to
> explicit encode TSG at all because we don't know what kind of TS size
> is going to come in the future.
>=20
> I agree that H-LSP case applies more generally to ODUk/OTUk links as
> well. I need to sync up with you on the rest.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Biao
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:40 AM
> To: Biao Lu; Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Lou Berger;
Khuzema
> Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not
> needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
>=20
> Biao,
>=20
> Wrt your comments about TS size, there doesn't seem to be consensus as
> to whether the auto-detect procedure is mandatory between the nodes at
> either end of an ODUk/OTUk link.  If it is then it will determine the
> correct tributary size and tell both nodes' control planes;  hence, TS
> size is not required in signaling.
>=20
> If auto-discovery is not mandatory, then the nodes at either end of
the
> link can each announce the TS size of their interface in routing by
> adding a field (or fields) in the ISCD.  The control planes in the
> nodes can then effectively run the auto-discovery procedure and
> determine the correct tributary size; again, TS size is not required
in
> signaling.
>=20
> Lou, Fatai, and I proposed yesterday to have a common definition
> between routing and signaling simply to keep everything consistent and
> to anticipate the case of different TS size by signal type in the
> future.
>=20
> Wrt your comments about hierarchical LSPs, I think they are correct
but
> apply more generally to ODUk/OTUk links as well.  Viz, either a
> hierarchical LSP or an ODUk/OTUk link can concurrently support
multiple
> paths (single or multi-stage) through the OTN hierarchy.
>=20
> I think this means that when a hierarchical LSP between a pair of
> interfaces is established, *none* of the paths through the OTN
> hierarchy should be specified at the time of its establishment.  So,
> what we are establishing is a pipe, very similar to an ODUk/OTUk link.
> (Jonathan used something like "GPID =3D explicit null" to refer to =
this
> mode of LSP establishment.)
>=20
> Subsequently, as we discussed earlier this week, if an ODUj needs to
> established over either a hierarchical LSP or an ODUj/OTUk link, any
> necessary intermediate LSPs are explicitly signaled and then the ODUj
> is signaled.
>=20
> Should I use 'sequence of OTN multiplexing stages' rather the 'path
> through the OTN hierarchy'?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Biao Lu
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:45 PM
> > To: Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Lou Berger; Khuzema
> > Pithewan
> > Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is
> not
> > needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
> >
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on
> TSG
> > topic.
> > Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the
> > signaling requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the
message
> > and without knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP.
But
> > we need to carry multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup
> > but not TSG.
> >
> > Observations:
> >     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is
> > determined by the hardware.
> >         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN
> payloads.
> > A link that uses
> >         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From
> > Macolm's email).
> >     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be
derived
> > from signal type + the
> >         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1
> > signal, if there is only 1 bit
> >         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set,
> we
> > can derive TSG to be
> >         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based
> on
> > current label
> >         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
> >
> > How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=3D1.25G)
> > ---------
> > ---- Node B (TSG=3D2.5G) )
> > without each end knowing the remote TSG information?
> >
> >       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default
> > scheme should be used
> >       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal
> > type based on the server ODU.
> >       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is:
> >
> >           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always
> > compatible with remote end as if the
> >           remote end is with TSG=3D2.5G regardless local TSG value. =
If
> > the default TS is not available,
> >           other TS can be used.
> >
> >      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will
> > automatic pass traffic based on
> >      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information,
> > we might get crankback
> >      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't
> > supported by remote node
> >      I think this is acceptable.
> >
> > H-LSP case:
> >          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP
being
> > setup can support the client
> >          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here.
> >
> >          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP
> setup,
> >          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2
> > being setup needs
> >          to be able to support ODU0.
> >
> >          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1
> LSP
> > setup, then the one end
> >          of H-LSP can have TSG=3D1.25G and the other end can have
> > TSG=3D2.5G. This is still a valid
> >          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
> >
> >         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with
> > specific multiplexing
> >         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
> >
> >         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
> >            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing
> > capability of
> >            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry
> > what client signal type
> >            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more
> > complex case, more than one
> >            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability
> > will need to be carried.
> >
> > Biao
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> > To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> > Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is
> > related to the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH
> or
> > any of the OPU payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID
> > defined in
> > RFC4328 does allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT
20
> > or 21 should be used. One potential solution would be to defined a
> new
> > G-PID indicating the OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
> >
> > Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property
of
> > a single multiplexing stage.
> > For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem
> > as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to
> > enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link
> > with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them
> > was
> > draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
> >
> > Best regards.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of ext Lou Berger
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
> > > To: Khuzema Pithewan
> > > Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
> > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >
> > > Khuzema,
> > > 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be
> > > convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the
> problem
> > > with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230
> unused
> > > values and are talking about using 3 of these.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The
> > > first is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The
> > > second, which is the one that lead me to suggest using signal
type,
> > > is when
> > signaling
> > > an
> > > OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG
> requested
> > > for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the
> > > H-
> > > LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an
> > > field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest
signal
> > > type.
> > >
> > > Lou (chair hat off)
> > >
> > > On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was
> > > > between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time
> slots.
> > > > Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a
> > priori,
> > > > the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
> > > >
> > > > The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a
FA-LSP
> > for
> > > > client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG
> > > > support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property
> > > > discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to
> > > > communicate the property. We prefer a separate object that
> carries
> > > > TSG in signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will
> just
> > > > blow up the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Khuzema
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
> > > > To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > > GRANDI,
> > > > PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > > zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > > > Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > > > Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > > >
> > > > As are we all.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
> > > >> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
> > > >> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > >> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > > >> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > > >> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi John,
> > > >>
> > > >> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Fatai
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > >> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
> > > (SERGIO)"
> > > >> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
> > > >> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO
> > (PIETRO
> > > >> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>;
"Khuzema
> > > >> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> > <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > > >> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
> > > >> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Fatai,
> > > >>
> > > >> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with
> the
> > > >> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> John
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
> > > >>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele
Ceccarelli;
> > > >> GRANDI,
> > > >>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;
> > > >>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> > > >>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
> > > >>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi all,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is
that
> > > this
> > > >>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding
> between
> > > the
> > > >>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be
> used
> > on
> > > >>> that link."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> > OSPF,
> > > >>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I
recall
> > > that
> > > >>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent
> of
> > TS
> > > >> and
> > > >>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label
> format,
> > > >>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined
> > > >>> Signal
> > > >> Type).
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Fatai
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks
> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > >>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> > <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
> > > >>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>;
> "GRANDI,
> > > >> PIETRO
> > > >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-
> > > >>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;
> > > >>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
> > > >>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;
> > > >>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> > > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
> > > >>> Subject: TS in Signaling
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> > > >> signaling
> > > >>> and we have the following proposal.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> > > >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 &
> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> > > (I
> > > >>> think this was there are one time.)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> > size
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have
> a-
> > > >> priori
> > > >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> > > >>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to
> the
> > TS
> > > >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping
> > > >>> (j
> > =3D
> > > >> k)
> > > >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> > > integrity
> > > >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> John
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CCAMP mailing list
> > > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
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From fu.xihua@zte.com.cn  Thu Jul 28 07:57:17 2011
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Hi Authors,

Following is my comments on your draft.

1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for me. 
     Could you give me some character about Non-WSON node?

2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON extended 
IGP information.
But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON and 
non-WSON and make one TED.
Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can it get WSON 
TED?

3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source)  compute a path route 
without any consideration of WSON constraint 
and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength 
information.
Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?
As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP 
information, the computation result isn't feasible.

4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve the 
interworking?

Xihua Fu
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<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">Hi Authors,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">Following is my comments on your draft.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node?
It is not clear for me. </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Could you give me some
character about Non-WSON node?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON
should ignore the WSON extended IGP information.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">But you also mention Non-WSON node should
combine two TEDs, WSON and non-WSON and make one TED.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP
information, why can it get WSON TED?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node
(source) &nbsp;compute a path route without any consideration of WSON constraint
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">and signal to WSON node (downstream) which
will adds wavelength information.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">Does the path computation in Non-WSON make
any sense?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't
have any WSON IGP information, the computation result isn't feasible.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">4.Could the UNI interface between WSON
node and Non-WSON resolve the interworking?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">Xihua Fu</font>
--=_alternative 005223FD482578DB_=--


From shimazaki.daisaku@lab.ntt.co.jp  Thu Jul 28 09:59:49 2011
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From: Daisaku Shimazaki <shimazaki.daisaku@lab.ntt.co.jp>
To: fu.xihua@zte.com.cn
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Dear Xihua Fu,

Thank you for your comments.


> 1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for me. 
>      Could you give me some character about Non-WSON node?

Non-WSON node means the node that does not support WSON protocols,
for example routers that have no WDM interafaces.


> 2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON extended 
> IGP information.
> But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON and 
> non-WSON and make one TED.
> Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can it get WSON 
> TED?

Non-WSON nodes receive LSAs from WSON nodes and ignore only WSON
information. Other information be recognized.
For example, non-WSON node ignores only sub-TLVs about WSON.


> 3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source)  compute a path route 
> without any consideration of WSON constraint 
> and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength 
> information.
> Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?
> As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP 
> information, the computation result isn't feasible.

Non-WSON node have network topology including WSON,
because it ignore only WSON information.


> 4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve the 
> interworking?

Tthis propose is based on peer model.
If non-WSON node need to have whole network topology,
I think this propose is better.



Best Regards,
Daisaku Shimazaki, NTT


On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:57:07 +0800
fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:

> Hi Authors,
> 
> Following is my comments on your draft.
> 
> 1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for me. 
>      Could you give me some character about Non-WSON node?
> 
> 2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON extended 
> IGP information.
> But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON and 
> non-WSON and make one TED.
> Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can it get WSON 
> TED?
> 
> 3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source)  compute a path route 
> without any consideration of WSON constraint 
> and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength 
> information.
> Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?
> As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP 
> information, the computation result isn't feasible.
> 
> 4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve the 
> interworking?
> 
> Xihua Fu



From jdrake@juniper.net  Thu Jul 28 10:47:33 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:44:31 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi,

I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that =20
having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is =20
useful for two reasons.

1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform =20
the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)

2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with =20
the necessary TS size (Malcolm)

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net> wrote:

> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a =20
> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>
>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1 =20
>> or
>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the =20
>> same
>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO =20
>> ODU3
>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>> different segments of the connection.
>>
>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS
>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would =20
>> ever
>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>
>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the =20
>> auto-
>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides), =20
>> but
>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS =20
>> granularity.
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On =20
>> Behalf
>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size, =20
>> but I
>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>
>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>
>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible =20
>> for
>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and =20
>> yet
>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were =20
>> ODU3/1.25G,
>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>
>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where =20
>> one is
>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>
>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On =20
>> Behalf
>> Of John E Drake
>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
>> Guoying
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in =20
>> signaling
>> and we have the following proposal.
>>
>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
>> think this was there are one time.)
>>
>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>
>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-=20
>> priori
>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>
>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D =20
>> k)
>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From prvs=11908b8054=lyong@ciena.com  Thu Jul 28 11:02:57 2011
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From: "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@Ciena.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:02:53 -0400
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi All,

Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as a clien=
t?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.

Cheers,

Lyndon



-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
To: John E Drake
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Hi,

I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
useful for two reasons.

1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)

2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
the necessary TS size (Malcolm)

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net> wrote:

> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>
>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
>> or
>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
>> same
>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>> ODU3
>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 (and
>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or ODU3
>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If you
>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>> different segments of the connection.
>>
>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with 1.25G
>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G TS
>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>> ever
>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can support
>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going to
>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>
>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>> auto-
>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
>> but
>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>> granularity.
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>> but I
>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>
>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they need a
>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels wrong
>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>
>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
>> for
>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
>> yet
>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>> ODU3/1.25G,
>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>
>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>> one is
>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>
>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of John E Drake
>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - Zhang
>> Guoying
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>> signaling
>> and we have the following proposal.
>>
>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (I
>> think this was there are one time.)
>>
>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>
>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>> priori
>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the tributary
>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>
>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
>> k)
>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp



From jdrake@juniper.net  Thu Jul 28 11:08:23 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:06:17 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxNUQ4AoOXd4HbySHiTs8gf1k6HxQ==
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Lyndon,

Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without =20
offering an ODU0 switching capability?

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as =20
> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyndon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On =20
> Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>
> Hi,
>
> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> useful for two reasons.
>
> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>
> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net> =20
> wrote:
>
>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) =20
>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>
>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
>>> or
>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
>>> same
>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>> ODU3
>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 =20
>>> (and
>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or =20
>>> ODU3
>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If =20
>>> you
>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>
>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with =20
>>> 1.25G
>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G =20
>>> TS
>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>> ever
>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can =20
>>> support
>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going =20
>>> to
>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>
>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>> auto-
>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
>>> but
>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>> granularity.
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>> but I
>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>
>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they =20
>>> need a
>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels =20
>>> wrong
>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
>>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>
>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
>>> for
>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
>>> yet
>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>> one is
>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>
>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of John E Drake
>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - =20
>>> Zhang
>>> Guoying
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>> signaling
>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>
>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (=
I
>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>
>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>>
>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>> priori
>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the =20
>>> tributary
>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>
>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
>>> k)
>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>

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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:09:25 -0500
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Yup - it could be supporting 1.25G granularity for ODUflex.

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:06 PM
To: Ong, Lyndon
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Lyndon,

Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
offering an ODU0 switching capability?

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyndon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>
> Hi,
>
> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> useful for two reasons.
>
> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>
> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> wrote:
>
>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>
>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
>>> or
>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
>>> same
>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>> ODU3
>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
>>> (and
>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
>>> ODU3
>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
>>> you
>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>
>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
>>> 1.25G
>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G
>>> TS
>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>> ever
>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
>>> support
>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going
>>> to
>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>
>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>> auto-
>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
>>> but
>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>> granularity.
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>> but I
>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>
>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
>>> need a
>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>>> wrong
>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
>>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>
>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
>>> for
>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
>>> yet
>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>> one is
>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>
>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of John E Drake
>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
>>> Zhang
>>> Guoying
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>> signaling
>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>
>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (=
I
>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>
>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>>
>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>> priori
>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
>>> tributary
>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>
>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
>>> k)
>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>
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It may not a good idea for CP to ignore WSON information although it can 
get the LSA from WSON network.
You mention Non-WSON node could compute a CSPF routing across WSON 
network, 
but Non-WSON node don't care about the wavelength available and 
impairement information.
Does the computation result make any sense?


> Dear Xihua Fu,
> 
> Thank you for your comments.
> 
> 
> > 1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for me. 
> >      Could you give me some character about Non-WSON node?
> 
> Non-WSON node means the node that does not support WSON protocols,
> for example routers that have no WDM interafaces.
> 
> 
> > 2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON 
extended 
> > IGP information.
> > But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON and 
> > non-WSON and make one TED.
> > Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can it get 
WSON 
> > TED?
> 
> Non-WSON nodes receive LSAs from WSON nodes and ignore only WSON
> information. Other information be recognized.
> For example, non-WSON node ignores only sub-TLVs about WSON.
> 
> 
> > 3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source)  compute a path 
route 
> > without any consideration of WSON constraint 
> > and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength 
> > information.
> > Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?
> > As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP 
> > information, the computation result isn't feasible.
> 
> Non-WSON node have network topology including WSON,
> because it ignore only WSON information.
> 
> 
> > 4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve the 
> > interworking?
> 
> Tthis propose is based on peer model.
> If non-WSON node need to have whole network topology,
> I think this propose is better.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> Daisaku Shimazaki, NTT
> 
> 
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:57:07 +0800
> fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:
> 
> > Hi Authors,
> > 
> > Following is my comments on your draft.
> > 
> > 1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for me. 
> >      Could you give me some character about Non-WSON node?
> > 
> > 2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON 
extended 
> > IGP information.
> > But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON and 
> > non-WSON and make one TED.
> > Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can it get 
WSON 
> > TED?
> > 
> > 3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source)  compute a path 
route 
> > without any consideration of WSON constraint 
> > and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength 
> > information.
> > Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?
> > As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP 
> > information, the computation result isn't feasible.
> > 
> > 4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve the 
> > interworking?
> > 
> > Xihua Fu
> 
> 
> 

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<br><font size=2><tt>It may not a good idea for CP to ignore WSON information
although it can get the LSA from WSON network.</tt></font>
<br><font size=2><tt>You mention Non-WSON node could compute a CSPF routing
across WSON network, </tt></font>
<br><font size=2><tt>but Non-WSON node don't care about the wavelength
available and impairement information.</tt></font>
<br><font size=2><tt>Does the computation result make any sense?</tt></font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>&gt; Dear Xihua Fu,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thank you for your comments.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for
me. <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Could you give me some character about Non-WSON
node?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Non-WSON node means the node that does not support WSON protocols,<br>
&gt; for example routers that have no WDM interafaces.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON
extended <br>
&gt; &gt; IGP information.<br>
&gt; &gt; But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON
and <br>
&gt; &gt; non-WSON and make one TED.<br>
&gt; &gt; Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can
it get WSON <br>
&gt; &gt; TED?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Non-WSON nodes receive LSAs from WSON nodes and ignore only WSON<br>
&gt; information. Other information be recognized.<br>
&gt; For example, non-WSON node ignores only sub-TLVs about WSON.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source) &nbsp;compute
a path route <br>
&gt; &gt; without any consideration of WSON constraint <br>
&gt; &gt; and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength
<br>
&gt; &gt; information.<br>
&gt; &gt; Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?<br>
&gt; &gt; As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP
<br>
&gt; &gt; information, the computation result isn't feasible.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Non-WSON node have network topology including WSON,<br>
&gt; because it ignore only WSON information.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve
the <br>
&gt; &gt; interworking?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Tthis propose is based on peer model.<br>
&gt; If non-WSON node need to have whole network topology,<br>
&gt; I think this propose is better.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Best Regards,<br>
&gt; Daisaku Shimazaki, NTT<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:57:07 +0800<br>
&gt; fu.xihua@zte.com.cn wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Hi Authors,<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Following is my comments on your draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 1. What's the definition of Non-WSON node? It is not clear for
me. <br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Could you give me some character about Non-WSON
node?<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 2. In section 2.1, you mention Non-WSON should ignore the WSON
extended <br>
&gt; &gt; IGP information.<br>
&gt; &gt; But you also mention Non-WSON node should combine two TEDs, WSON
and <br>
&gt; &gt; non-WSON and make one TED.<br>
&gt; &gt; Since Non-WSON ignores WSON extended IGP information, why can
it get WSON <br>
&gt; &gt; TED?<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 3. In section 4, you mention Non-WSON node (source) &nbsp;compute
a path route <br>
&gt; &gt; without any consideration of WSON constraint <br>
&gt; &gt; and signal to WSON node (downstream) which will adds wavelength
<br>
&gt; &gt; information.<br>
&gt; &gt; Does the path computation in Non-WSON make any sense?<br>
&gt; &gt; As path computation in Non-WSON node doesn't have any WSON IGP
<br>
&gt; &gt; information, the computation result isn't feasible.<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 4.Could the UNI interface between WSON node and Non-WSON resolve
the <br>
&gt; &gt; interworking?<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Xihua Fu<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</tt></font>
--=_alternative 006E540A482578DB_=--


From sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jul 29 00:03:41 2011
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:03:31 +0200
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: [CCAMP] R: TS in Signaling
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Yes John,

In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at 1.25 bu=
t the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .

Thanks
sergio




-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Joh=
n E Drake
Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
A: Ong, Lyndon
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Lyndon,

Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without =20
offering an ODU0 switching capability?

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as =20
> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyndon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On =20
> Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>
> Hi,
>
> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> useful for two reasons.
>
> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>
> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net> =20
> wrote:
>
>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) =20
>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>
>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
>>> or
>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
>>> same
>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>> ODU3
>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4 =20
>>> (and
>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or =20
>>> ODU3
>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If =20
>>> you
>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>
>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with =20
>>> 1.25G
>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G =20
>>> TS
>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>> ever
>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can =20
>>> support
>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going =20
>>> to
>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>
>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>> auto-
>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
>>> but
>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>> granularity.
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>> but I
>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>
>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they =20
>>> need a
>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels =20
>>> wrong
>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
>>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>
>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
>>> for
>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
>>> yet
>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>> one is
>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>
>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of John E Drake
>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR - =20
>>> Zhang
>>> Guoying
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>> signaling
>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>
>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (=
I
>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>
>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>>
>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>> priori
>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the =20
>>> tributary
>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>
>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
>>> k)
>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>
_______________________________________________
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From: "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@Ciena.com>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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True, advertisement of ODU0 OR ODUflex support would imply support of 2009 =
OTN and 1.25 TS size.  You could make it explicit as well.



-----Original Message-----
From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:09 AM
To: John E Drake; Ong, Lyndon
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: RE: TS in Signaling

Yup - it could be supporting 1.25G granularity for ODUflex.

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:06 PM
To: Ong, Lyndon
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Lyndon,

Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
offering an ODU0 switching capability?

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyndon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of John E Drake
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>
> Hi,
>
> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> useful for two reasons.
>
> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>
> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> wrote:
>
>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>
>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
>>> or
>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
>>> same
>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the HO
>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>> ODU3
>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
>>> (and
>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
>>> ODU3
>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
>>> you
>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>
>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
>>> 1.25G
>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G
>>> TS
>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>> ever
>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
>>> support
>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all of
>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going
>>> to
>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>
>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO ODUk
>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>> auto-
>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
>>> but
>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>> granularity.
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>> but I
>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>
>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
>>> need a
>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>>> wrong
>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of (say)
>>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>
>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
>>> for
>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
>>> yet
>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>> one is
>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can infer
>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>
>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of John E Drake
>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
>>> Zhang
>>> Guoying
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>> signaling
>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>
>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).  (=
I
>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>
>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
>>>
>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>> priori
>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
>>> tributary
>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>
>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
>>> k)
>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful integrity
>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>
_______________________________________________
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul 29 06:09:07 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:05:17 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxNUQ4AoOXd4HbySHiTs8gf1k6HxQAbEYzwAAxIpHA=
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Sergio,

Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent of =
the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou and I an=
d, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which we conclude=
d that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as well.

If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in which =
TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding adjacencies a=
s well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-end property of an =
LSP that needs to be checked during its establishment.  (An LSP for certain=
 values of j can still be established over a path containing links with het=
erogeneous TS sizes.)

I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from Lou, Fa=
tai, and I from Wednesday.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Yes John,
>=20
> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>=20
> Thanks
> sergio
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di
> John E Drake
> Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> A: Ong, Lyndon
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Lyndon,
>=20
> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>=20
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lyndon
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > useful for two reasons.
> >
> > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> >
> > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> >>> lucent.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> >>>
> >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
> >>> or
> >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
> >>> same
> >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> HO
> >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> >>> ODU3
> >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> >>> (and
> >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> >>> ODU3
> >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> >>> you
> >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> >>> different segments of the connection.
> >>>
> >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> >>> 1.25G
> >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G
> >>> TS
> >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> >>> ever
> >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> >>> support
> >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> of
> >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going
> >>> to
> >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> >>>
> >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> ODUk
> >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> >>> auto-
> >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
> >>> but
> >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> >>> granularity.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> >>> To: John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> >>> but I
> >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> >>>
> >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> >>> need a
> >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> >>> wrong
> >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> (say)
> >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> >>>
> >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
> >>> for
> >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
> >>> yet
> >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> >>>
> >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> >>> one is
> >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> infer
> >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> >>>
> >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of John E Drake
> >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> >>> Zhang
> >>> Guoying
> >>> Cc: CCAMP
> >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> >>> signaling
> >>> and we have the following proposal.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> (I
> >>> think this was there are one time.)
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> >>>
> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> >>> priori
> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> >>> tributary
> >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> >>>
> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
> >>> k)
> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> integrity
> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com  Fri Jul 29 06:16:08 2011
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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:15:52 -0500
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AcxNUQ4AoOXd4HbySHiTs8gf1k6HxQAbEYzwAAxIpHAAAKZ0cA==
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi John,

The FA/TE-Link that is supported by an H-LSP does have a TS size independen=
t of the TE-Link below the H-LSP.

However, the layer of the FA/TE-Link as well as its adaptation detail (whic=
h is what the TS size is a parameter) isn't conveyed in the Signal Type -- =
its conveyed in the GPID.

For example, if I create a STS-1 H-LSP that is supporting an IP/MPLS FA/TE-=
Link, the GPID is set to reflect IP/MPLS not the H-LSP's Signal Type.

In this OTN case, the FA/TE-Link is in the upper ODUj layer while the H-LSP=
 is in the ODUk layer.

Jonathan Sadler

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:05 AM
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Sergio,

Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent of =
the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou and I an=
d, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which we conclude=
d that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as well.

If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in which =
TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding adjacencies a=
s well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-end property of an =
LSP that needs to be checked during its establishment.  (An LSP for certain=
 values of j can still be established over a path containing links with het=
erogeneous TS sizes.)

I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from Lou, Fa=
tai, and I from Wednesday.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>
> Yes John,
>
> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>
> Thanks
> sergio
>
>
>
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di
> John E Drake
> Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> A: Ong, Lyndon
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>
> Lyndon,
>
> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lyndon
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > useful for two reasons.
> >
> > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> >
> > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> >>> lucent.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> >>>
> >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
> >>> or
> >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
> >>> same
> >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> HO
> >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> >>> ODU3
> >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> >>> (and
> >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> >>> ODU3
> >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> >>> you
> >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> >>> different segments of the connection.
> >>>
> >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> >>> 1.25G
> >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G
> >>> TS
> >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> >>> ever
> >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> >>> support
> >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> of
> >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going
> >>> to
> >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> >>>
> >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> ODUk
> >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> >>> auto-
> >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
> >>> but
> >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> >>> granularity.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> >>> To: John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> >>> but I
> >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> >>>
> >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> >>> need a
> >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> >>> wrong
> >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> (say)
> >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> >>>
> >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
> >>> for
> >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
> >>> yet
> >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> >>>
> >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> >>> one is
> >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> infer
> >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> >>>
> >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of John E Drake
> >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> >>> Zhang
> >>> Guoying
> >>> Cc: CCAMP
> >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> >>> signaling
> >>> and we have the following proposal.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> (I
> >>> think this was there are one time.)
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> >>>
> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> >>> priori
> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> >>> tributary
> >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> >>>
> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
> >>> k)
> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> integrity
> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
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From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com  Fri Jul 29 06:24:59 2011
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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:24:34 -0500
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi John,

A separate comment re: the advertising of TS information in routing.  As me=
ntioned in my previous email, TS size is an attribute of the adaptation use=
d to put an ODUj into an ODUk.

This ties into the requirement found in ITU-T's G.7715.1 stating the need f=
or links to advertise the adaptations supported by a link end (i.e. TE-Link=
 end).  When the TE-Link advertisement (whether a TE-Link created by an FA =
or a TE-Link that uses a physical link) includes this detail, it is possibl=
e for routing to validate the compatibility of the endpoints with the servi=
ce requested.

Jonathan Sadler

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J=
ohn E Drake
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:05 AM
To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

Sergio,

Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent of =
the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou and I an=
d, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which we conclude=
d that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as well.

If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in which =
TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding adjacencies a=
s well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-end property of an =
LSP that needs to be checked during its establishment.  (An LSP for certain=
 values of j can still be established over a path containing links with het=
erogeneous TS sizes.)

I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from Lou, Fa=
tai, and I from Wednesday.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>
> Yes John,
>
> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>
> Thanks
> sergio
>
>
>
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di
> John E Drake
> Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> A: Ong, Lyndon
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>
> Lyndon,
>
> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lyndon
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > useful for two reasons.
> >
> > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> >
> > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> >>> lucent.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> >>>
> >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
> >>> or
> >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
> >>> same
> >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> HO
> >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> >>> ODU3
> >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> >>> (and
> >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> >>> ODU3
> >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> >>> you
> >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> >>> different segments of the connection.
> >>>
> >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> >>> 1.25G
> >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G
> >>> TS
> >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> >>> ever
> >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> >>> support
> >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> of
> >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going
> >>> to
> >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> >>>
> >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> ODUk
> >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> >>> auto-
> >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
> >>> but
> >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> >>> granularity.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> >>> To: John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> >>> but I
> >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> >>>
> >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> >>> need a
> >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> >>> wrong
> >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> (say)
> >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> >>>
> >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
> >>> for
> >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
> >>> yet
> >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> >>>
> >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> >>> one is
> >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> infer
> >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> >>>
> >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of John E Drake
> >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> >>> Zhang
> >>> Guoying
> >>> Cc: CCAMP
> >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> >>> signaling
> >>> and we have the following proposal.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> (I
> >>> think this was there are one time.)
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> >>>
> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> >>> priori
> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> >>> tributary
> >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> >>>
> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
> >>> k)
> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> integrity
> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
_______________________________________________
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul 29 06:40:34 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:33:55 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Jonathan,

I think this means you agree with me 8->?

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:25 AM
> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> A separate comment re: the advertising of TS information in routing.
> As mentioned in my previous email, TS size is an attribute of the
> adaptation used to put an ODUj into an ODUk.
>=20
> This ties into the requirement found in ITU-T's G.7715.1 stating the
> need for links to advertise the adaptations supported by a link end
> (i.e. TE-Link end).  When the TE-Link advertisement (whether a TE-Link
> created by an FA or a TE-Link that uses a physical link) includes this
> detail, it is possible for routing to validate the compatibility of the
> endpoints with the service requested.
>=20
> Jonathan Sadler
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:05 AM
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Sergio,
>=20
> Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent
> of the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou
> and I and, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which
> we concluded that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as
> well.
>=20
> If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in
> which TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding
> adjacencies as well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-
> end property of an LSP that needs to be checked during its
> establishment.  (An LSP for certain values of j can still be
> established over a path containing links with heterogeneous TS sizes.)
>=20
> I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from
> Lou, Fatai, and I from Wednesday.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> > lucent.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> > Subject: R: TS in Signaling
> >
> > Yes John,
> >
> > In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> > 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
> >
> > Thanks
> > sergio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Messaggio originale-----
> > Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
> di
> > John E Drake
> > Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> > A: Ong, Lyndon
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Lyndon,
> >
> > Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> > offering an ODU0 switching capability?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while
> back.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Lyndon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > > To: John E Drake
> > > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems
> that
> > > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > > useful for two reasons.
> > >
> > > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to
> perform
> > > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> > >
> > > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links
> with
> > > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> > >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> > >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> > >>> lucent.com]
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> > >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> > >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the
> operator
> > >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> > >>>
> > >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO
> ODU1
> > >>> or
> > >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried
> over
> > >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of
> the
> > >>> same
> > >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path -
> it
> > >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> > HO
> > >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> > >>> ODU3
> > >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> > >>> (and
> > >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So
> the
> > >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> > >>> ODU3
> > >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> > >>> you
> > >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> > >>> different segments of the connection.
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> > >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> > >>> 1.25G
> > >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20
> 2.5G
> > >>> TS
> > >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> > >>> ever
> > >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> > >>> support
> > >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> > of
> > >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> > >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't
> going
> > >>> to
> > >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> > >>>
> > >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> > ODUk
> > >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> > >>> auto-
> > >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of
> the
> > >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two
> sides),
> > >>> but
> > >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> > >>> granularity.
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> > >>> To: John E Drake
> > >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi John,
> > >>>
> > >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> > >>> but I
> > >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> > >>>
> > >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> > >>> need a
> > >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> > >>> wrong
> > >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in
> all
> > >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> > (say)
> > >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> > >>>
> > >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is
> possible
> > >>> for
> > >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
> and
> > >>> yet
> > >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> > >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> > >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> > >>> one is
> > >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> > infer
> > >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> > >>>
> > >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>> Jon
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of John E Drake
> > >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> > >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> > >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> > >>> Zhang
> > >>> Guoying
> > >>> Cc: CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> > >>> signaling
> > >>> and we have the following proposal.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> > >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G)=
.
> > (I
> > >>> think this was there are one time.)
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
> > >>>
> > >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> > >>> priori
> > >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> > >>> tributary
> > >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
> > >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =3D
> > >>> k)
> > >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> > integrity
> > >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CCAMP mailing list
> > > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
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> please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:32:16 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Jonathan,

Thanks for your note.  GPID is certainly another possibility;  the importan=
t thing is that this parameter has end-to-end semantics.  The question of w=
hether this is true is the question from last week with which I started thi=
s discussion, and we have had quite an evolution of views.

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:16 AM
> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> The FA/TE-Link that is supported by an H-LSP does have a TS size
> independent of the TE-Link below the H-LSP.
>=20
> However, the layer of the FA/TE-Link as well as its adaptation detail
> (which is what the TS size is a parameter) isn't conveyed in the Signal
> Type -- its conveyed in the GPID.
>=20
> For example, if I create a STS-1 H-LSP that is supporting an IP/MPLS
> FA/TE-Link, the GPID is set to reflect IP/MPLS not the H-LSP's Signal
> Type.
>=20
> In this OTN case, the FA/TE-Link is in the upper ODUj layer while the
> H-LSP is in the ODUk layer.
>=20
> Jonathan Sadler
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of John E Drake
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 8:05 AM
> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Sergio,
>=20
> Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent
> of the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou
> and I and, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which
> we concluded that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as
> well.
>=20
> If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in
> which TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding
> adjacencies as well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-
> end property of an LSP that needs to be checked during its
> establishment.  (An LSP for certain values of j can still be
> established over a path containing links with heterogeneous TS sizes.)
>=20
> I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from
> Lou, Fatai, and I from Wednesday.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> > lucent.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> > Subject: R: TS in Signaling
> >
> > Yes John,
> >
> > In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> > 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
> >
> > Thanks
> > sergio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Messaggio originale-----
> > Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
> di
> > John E Drake
> > Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> > A: Ong, Lyndon
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Lyndon,
> >
> > Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> > offering an ODU0 switching capability?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while
> back.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Lyndon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > > To: John E Drake
> > > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems
> that
> > > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > > useful for two reasons.
> > >
> > > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to
> perform
> > > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> > >
> > > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links
> with
> > > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> > >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> > >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> > >>> lucent.com]
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> > >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> > >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the
> operator
> > >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> > >>>
> > >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO
> ODU1
> > >>> or
> > >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried
> over
> > >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of
> the
> > >>> same
> > >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path -
> it
> > >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> > HO
> > >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> > >>> ODU3
> > >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> > >>> (and
> > >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So
> the
> > >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> > >>> ODU3
> > >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> > >>> you
> > >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> > >>> different segments of the connection.
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> > >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> > >>> 1.25G
> > >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20
> 2.5G
> > >>> TS
> > >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> > >>> ever
> > >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> > >>> support
> > >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> > of
> > >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> > >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't
> going
> > >>> to
> > >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> > >>>
> > >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> > ODUk
> > >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> > >>> auto-
> > >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of
> the
> > >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two
> sides),
> > >>> but
> > >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> > >>> granularity.
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> > >>> To: John E Drake
> > >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi John,
> > >>>
> > >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> > >>> but I
> > >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> > >>>
> > >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> > >>> need a
> > >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> > >>> wrong
> > >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in
> all
> > >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> > (say)
> > >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> > >>>
> > >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is
> possible
> > >>> for
> > >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
> and
> > >>> yet
> > >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> > >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> > >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> > >>> one is
> > >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> > infer
> > >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> > >>>
> > >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>> Jon
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of John E Drake
> > >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> > >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> > >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> > >>> Zhang
> > >>> Guoying
> > >>> Cc: CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> > >>> signaling
> > >>> and we have the following proposal.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> > >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G)=
.
> > (I
> > >>> think this was there are one time.)
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
> > >>>
> > >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> > >>> priori
> > >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> > >>> tributary
> > >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
> > >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =3D
> > >>> k)
> > >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> > integrity
> > >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CCAMP mailing list
> > > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
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From sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jul 29 06:56:05 2011
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:55:45 +0200
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: [CCAMP] R: TS in Signaling
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John,

I have just to confirm what kindly already answered by Jonathan.=20
I agree with Jonathan that TSG is an adaptation information. GPID it could =
be a right place to put TSG information, moreover we can also think to pote=
ntial LO services to be supported by ODUk/OTUk or H-LSP/FA , and in this ca=
se a new dedicated object could be a good solution (aligned with Biao propo=
sal) .

Thanks
sergio





-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20
Inviato: venerd=EC 29 luglio 2011 15.05
A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
Oggetto: RE: TS in Signaling

Sergio,

Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent of =
the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou and I an=
d, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which we conclude=
d that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as well.

If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in which =
TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding adjacencies a=
s well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-end property of an =
LSP that needs to be checked during its establishment.  (An LSP for certain=
 values of j can still be established over a path containing links with het=
erogeneous TS sizes.)

I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from Lou, Fa=
tai, and I from Wednesday.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Yes John,
>=20
> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>=20
> Thanks
> sergio
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di
> John E Drake
> Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> A: Ong, Lyndon
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Lyndon,
>=20
> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>=20
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while back.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lyndon
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems that
> > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > useful for two reasons.
> >
> > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to perform
> > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> >
> > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links with
> > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> >>> lucent.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the operator
> >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> >>>
> >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO ODU1
> >>> or
> >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried over
> >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of the
> >>> same
> >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path - it
> >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> HO
> >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> >>> ODU3
> >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> >>> (and
> >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So the
> >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> >>> ODU3
> >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> >>> you
> >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> >>> different segments of the connection.
> >>>
> >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> >>> 1.25G
> >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20 2.5G
> >>> TS
> >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> >>> ever
> >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> >>> support
> >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> of
> >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't going
> >>> to
> >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> >>>
> >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> ODUk
> >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> >>> auto-
> >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of the
> >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two sides),
> >>> but
> >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> >>> granularity.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> >>> To: John E Drake
> >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> >>> but I
> >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> >>>
> >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> >>> need a
> >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> >>> wrong
> >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in all
> >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> (say)
> >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> >>>
> >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is possible
> >>> for
> >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity, and
> >>> yet
> >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> >>>
> >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> >>> one is
> >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> infer
> >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> >>>
> >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of John E Drake
> >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> >>> Zhang
> >>> Guoying
> >>> Cc: CCAMP
> >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> >>> signaling
> >>> and we have the following proposal.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
> (I
> >>> think this was there are one time.)
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS size
> >>>
> >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> >>> priori
> >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> >>> tributary
> >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> >>>
> >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the TS
> >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j =3D
> >>> k)
> >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> integrity
> >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From jdrake@juniper.net  Fri Jul 29 06:58:11 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:57:32 -0700
Thread-Topic: TS in Signaling
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Sergio,

That would be fine with me.

Thanks,

John

Sent from my iPhone


> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> lucent.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:56 AM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>=20
> John,
>=20
> I have just to confirm what kindly already answered by Jonathan.
> I agree with Jonathan that TSG is an adaptation information. GPID it
> could be a right place to put TSG information, moreover we can also
> think to potential LO services to be supported by ODUk/OTUk or H-LSP/FA
> , and in this case a new dedicated object could be a good solution
> (aligned with Biao proposal) .
>=20
> Thanks
> sergio
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
> Inviato: venerd=EC 29 luglio 2011 15.05
> A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> Oggetto: RE: TS in Signaling
>=20
> Sergio,
>=20
> Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent
> of the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou
> and I and, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which
> we concluded that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as
> well.
>=20
> If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in
> which TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding
> adjacencies as well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-
> end property of an LSP that needs to be checked during its
> establishment.  (An LSP for certain values of j can still be
> established over a path containing links with heterogeneous TS sizes.)
>=20
> I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from
> Lou, Fatai, and I from Wednesday.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
> > lucent.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
> > To: John E Drake
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
> > Subject: R: TS in Signaling
> >
> > Yes John,
> >
> > In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
> > 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
> >
> > Thanks
> > sergio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Messaggio originale-----
> > Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
> di
> > John E Drake
> > Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
> > A: Ong, Lyndon
> > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> >
> > Lyndon,
> >
> > Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
> > offering an ODU0 switching capability?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
> > > a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while
> back.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Lyndon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > > Behalf Of John E Drake
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
> > > To: John E Drake
> > > Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
> > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems
> that
> > > having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
> > > useful for two reasons.
> > >
> > > 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to
> perform
> > > the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
> > >
> > > 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links
> with
> > > the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
> > >> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
> > >>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
> > >>> lucent.com]
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
> > >>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
> > >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the
> operator
> > >>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
> > >>>
> > >>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO
> ODU1
> > >>> or
> > >>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried
> over
> > >>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of
> the
> > >>> same
> > >>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path -
> it
> > >>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
> > HO
> > >>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
> > >>> ODU3
> > >>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
> > >>> (and
> > >>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So
> the
> > >>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
> > >>> ODU3
> > >>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
> > >>> you
> > >>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
> > >>> different segments of the connection.
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
> > >>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
> > >>> 1.25G
> > >>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20
> 2.5G
> > >>> TS
> > >>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
> > >>> ever
> > >>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
> > >>> support
> > >>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
> > of
> > >>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
> > >>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't
> going
> > >>> to
> > >>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
> > >>>
> > >>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
> > ODUk
> > >>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
> > >>> auto-
> > >>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of
> the
> > >>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two
> sides),
> > >>> but
> > >>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
> > >>> granularity.
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
> > >>> To: John E Drake
> > >>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi John,
> > >>>
> > >>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
> > >>> but I
> > >>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
> > >>>
> > >>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
> > >>> need a
> > >>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
> > >>> wrong
> > >>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in
> all
> > >>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
> > (say)
> > >>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
> > >>>
> > >>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is
> possible
> > >>> for
> > >>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
> and
> > >>> yet
> > >>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
> > >>> ODU3/1.25G,
> > >>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
> > >>> one is
> > >>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
> > infer
> > >>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
> > >>>
> > >>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>> Jon
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of John E Drake
> > >>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
> > >>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
> > >>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
> > >>> Zhang
> > >>> Guoying
> > >>> Cc: CCAMP
> > >>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
> > >>> signaling
> > >>> and we have the following proposal.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
> > >>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G)=
.
> > (I
> > >>> think this was there are one time.)
> > >>>
> > >>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
> > >>>
> > >>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
> > >>> priori
> > >>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
> > >>> tributary
> > >>> slot size to be used on that link.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
> > >>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =3D
> > >>> k)
> > >>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
> > integrity
> > >>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CCAMP mailing list
> > >>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CCAMP mailing list
> > > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From lberger@labn.net  Fri Jul 29 07:41:23 2011
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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I think it would be worthwhile to get a tight definition of the
information that is needed to represent the mux capabilities of the
H-LSP end-points.  Once we have this, we can better understand how best
to communicate it.

So far, I've heard:
- all that is needed is TSG
- TSG is useless, need full muxing capabilities
- only need 1 muxing capability

Clearly these all can't be right.

Anyone care to take a try?

Thanks,
Lou

On 7/29/2011 9:57 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Sergio,
> 
> That would be fine with me.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:56 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I have just to confirm what kindly already answered by Jonathan.
>> I agree with Jonathan that TSG is an adaptation information. GPID it
>> could be a right place to put TSG information, moreover we can also
>> think to potential LO services to be supported by ODUk/OTUk or H-LSP/FA
>> , and in this case a new dedicated object could be a good solution
>> (aligned with Biao proposal) .
>>
>> Thanks
>> sergio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>> Inviato: venerdì 29 luglio 2011 15.05
>> A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>> Oggetto: RE: TS in Signaling
>>
>> Sergio,
>>
>> Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent
>> of the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou
>> and I and, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which
>> we concluded that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as
>> well.
>>
>> If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in
>> which TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding
>> adjacencies as well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-
>> end property of an LSP that needs to be checked during its
>> establishment.  (An LSP for certain values of j can still be
>> established over a path containing links with heterogeneous TS sizes.)
>>
>> I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from
>> Lou, Fatai, and I from Wednesday.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>>> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Yes John,
>>>
>>> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
>>> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> sergio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
>> di
>>> John E Drake
>>> Inviato: giovedì 28 luglio 2011 20.06
>>> A: Ong, Lyndon
>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
>>> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Lyndon,
>>>
>>> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
>>> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
>>>> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while
>> back.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Lyndon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of John E Drake
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems
>> that
>>>> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
>>>> useful for two reasons.
>>>>
>>>> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to
>> perform
>>>> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>>>>
>>>> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links
>> with
>>>> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>>>>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
>>>>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>>>>> lucent.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>>>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the
>> operator
>>>>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO
>> ODU1
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried
>> over
>>>>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of
>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path -
>> it
>>>>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
>>> HO
>>>>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>>>>> ODU3
>>>>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So
>> the
>>>>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
>>>>>> ODU3
>>>>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>>>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>>>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
>>>>>> 1.25G
>>>>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=20
>> 2.5G
>>>>>> TS
>>>>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
>>> of
>>>>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>>>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't
>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
>>> ODUk
>>>>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>>>>> auto-
>>>>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of
>> the
>>>>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two
>> sides),
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>>>>> granularity.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
>>>>>> need a
>>>>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in
>> all
>>>>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
>>> (say)
>>>>>> ODU3/TS=2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is
>> possible
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
>> and
>>>>>> yet
>>>>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>>>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>>>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>>>>> one is
>>>>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
>>> infer
>>>>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of John E Drake
>>>>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>>>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
>>>>>> Zhang
>>>>>> Guoying
>>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>>>> signaling
>>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=1.25 & ODU3/TS=2.5G).
>>> (I
>>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
>> size
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>>>> priori
>>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
>>>>>> tributary
>>>>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
>> TS
>>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
>> =
>>>>>> k)
>>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>>> integrity
>>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:54:05 +0800
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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From: "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:13:25 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Hi Lou,

My 5 cents.

Let's try to reason from a purely logical point of view. There are two prob=
lems:

1) When setting up a LSP ensure that the two end-points are consistent in t=
erms of TS granularity. With this respect G.709 provides just two adaptatio=
ns. One adaptation has the effect to set TS granularity at 1.25,
the other one has the effect to set the TS granularity at 2.5.

If the requirements is only this a possible solution is defining new G-PIDs=
.

2) Ensure that the set of supported hierarchies is the same at both ends of=
 the LSP. With this respect telling that a server supports a structured ada=
ptation at 1.25 is not enough information.

If this is a requirement, signaling should also have the information about
the set of hierarchies that should be supported in order to enable the penu=
ltimate hop to choose correctly the interface.

Last but not least: it is true that signaling the set of hierarchies that
should be supported allows choosing the TS granularity in the sense that:

if signaled hierarchies contain an ODUj introduced with G.709v3 then the ch=
osen interface must be able to support TSG=3D1.25.

If signaled hierarchies support only G.709 original ODUj then any TSG is OK=
.

This means that we could try to solve the points 1 and 2 together. But at t=
his point it becomes not clear which value has to be inserted in G-PID.=20

Hope this clarify a little.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Pietro Vittorio Grandi
Terrestrial Optics Portfolio Evolution
Alcatel-Lucent Vimercate (Italy)
Tel: +39 039 686 4930
Mail: pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour.
Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a  minute. That's rel=
ativity.
(A. Einstein)


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: venerd=EC 29 luglio 2011 16.41
To: John E Drake; CCAMP
Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

I think it would be worthwhile to get a tight definition of the
information that is needed to represent the mux capabilities of the
H-LSP end-points.  Once we have this, we can better understand how best
to communicate it.

So far, I've heard:
- all that is needed is TSG
- TSG is useless, need full muxing capabilities
- only need 1 muxing capability

Clearly these all can't be right.

Anyone care to take a try?

Thanks,
Lou

On 7/29/2011 9:57 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Sergio,
>=20
> That would be fine with me.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:56 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I have just to confirm what kindly already answered by Jonathan.
>> I agree with Jonathan that TSG is an adaptation information. GPID it
>> could be a right place to put TSG information, moreover we can also
>> think to potential LO services to be supported by ODUk/OTUk or H-LSP/FA
>> , and in this case a new dedicated object could be a good solution
>> (aligned with Biao proposal) .
>>
>> Thanks
>> sergio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>> Inviato: venerd=EC 29 luglio 2011 15.05
>> A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>> Oggetto: RE: TS in Signaling
>>
>> Sergio,
>>
>> Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent
>> of the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou
>> and I and, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which
>> we concluded that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as
>> well.
>>
>> If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in
>> which TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding
>> adjacencies as well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-
>> end property of an LSP that needs to be checked during its
>> establishment.  (An LSP for certain values of j can still be
>> established over a path containing links with heterogeneous TS sizes.)
>>
>> I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from
>> Lou, Fatai, and I from Wednesday.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>>> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Yes John,
>>>
>>> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
>>> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> sergio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
>> di
>>> John E Drake
>>> Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
>>> A: Ong, Lyndon
>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
>>> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Lyndon,
>>>
>>> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
>>> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
>>>> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while
>> back.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Lyndon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of John E Drake
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems
>> that
>>>> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
>>>> useful for two reasons.
>>>>
>>>> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to
>> perform
>>>> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>>>>
>>>> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links
>> with
>>>> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>>>>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
>>>>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>>>>> lucent.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>>>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the
>> operator
>>>>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO
>> ODU1
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried
>> over
>>>>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of
>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path -
>> it
>>>>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
>>> HO
>>>>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>>>>> ODU3
>>>>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So
>> the
>>>>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
>>>>>> ODU3
>>>>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>>>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>>>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
>>>>>> 1.25G
>>>>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20
>> 2.5G
>>>>>> TS
>>>>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
>>> of
>>>>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>>>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't
>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
>>> ODUk
>>>>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>>>>> auto-
>>>>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of
>> the
>>>>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two
>> sides),
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>>>>> granularity.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
>>>>>> need a
>>>>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in
>> all
>>>>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
>>> (say)
>>>>>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is
>> possible
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
>> and
>>>>>> yet
>>>>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>>>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>>>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>>>>> one is
>>>>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
>>> infer
>>>>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of John E Drake
>>>>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>>>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
>>>>>> Zhang
>>>>>> Guoying
>>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>>>> signaling
>>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
>>> (I
>>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
>> size
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>>>> priori
>>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
>>>>>> tributary
>>>>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
>> TS
>>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
>> =3D
>>>>>> k)
>>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>>> integrity
>>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
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From Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com  Fri Jul 29 09:14:26 2011
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From: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
To: labn - Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
Thread-Index: AQHMTf2U6aFWJpZZTu+ZLLqKkvqZ0JUDY99w
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:14:22 +0000
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, CATR - Zhang Guoying <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
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Lou,

I think it depends on what you are trying to do.  Here is my understanding.=
  Is it right or wrong?

I. Signaling ODUk to carry some non-ODU service
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
I don't think there is a requirement to guarantee the TSG of the LSP is 1.2=
5G or 2.5G.  I am not _certain_ of this because I have heard conflicting op=
inions.  However, based on Stephen Trowbridge's comments on an earlier thre=
ad, I will assume that the operator does not need to control this.

Therefore, in this case, you don't need anything to do with TSG or muxing c=
apabilities in the signalling message.  The TSG will auto-negotiate to one =
value or the other (it does not matter which), and you are not doing any OD=
U muxing.

If my assumption is wrong, we might need to signal the TSG in this case (an=
d include it in routing).

II. Signaling ODUk to establish an H-LSP to carry ODUj
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
We can bundle links with dissimilar mux hierarchies.  When we establish an =
H-LSP, we need to make sure that the component link selected by the penulti=
mate-hop LSR has an endpoint whose mux hierarchy can access the appropriate=
 service or services that the H-LSP is being set up to carry.  Therefore th=
e Path message must describe the ODUj that you want to carry (which might i=
tself be an H-LSP!).

So, in this case you "only need N muxing capabilities" where N is the numbe=
r of different types of ODUj you want to run over the H-LSP.

In practice, perhaps we only have to worry about N=3D1.

III. Signaling ODUk to establish an FA-LSP
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
We can bundle links with dissimilar mux hierarchies.  Therefore, path compu=
tation cannot guarantee for us what mux hierarchy we are going to end up wi=
th when the LSP is established.  We need to discover it before we can use t=
he LSP as an FA-LSP.  One way to do this is to include the full mux hierarc=
hy of the ingress endpoint on the Path, and the full mux hierarchy of the e=
gress endpoint on the Resv.  (Another option is to run LMP on the LSP after=
 establishment, but this has drawbacks, in that there will be some time lag=
, and you might not want to run LMP over every FA-LSP for scalability reaso=
ns.)

So in this case you "need full muxing capabilities".

Regards
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: 29 July 2011 10:41
To: John E Drake; CCAMP
Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling

I think it would be worthwhile to get a tight definition of the
information that is needed to represent the mux capabilities of the
H-LSP end-points.  Once we have this, we can better understand how best
to communicate it.

So far, I've heard:
- all that is needed is TSG
- TSG is useless, need full muxing capabilities
- only need 1 muxing capability

Clearly these all can't be right.

Anyone care to take a try?

Thanks,
Lou

On 7/29/2011 9:57 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Sergio,
>=20
> That would be fine with me.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:56 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I have just to confirm what kindly already answered by Jonathan.
>> I agree with Jonathan that TSG is an adaptation information. GPID it
>> could be a right place to put TSG information, moreover we can also
>> think to potential LO services to be supported by ODUk/OTUk or H-LSP/FA
>> , and in this case a new dedicated object could be a good solution
>> (aligned with Biao proposal) .
>>
>> Thanks
>> sergio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>> Inviato: venerd=EC 29 luglio 2011 15.05
>> A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>> Oggetto: RE: TS in Signaling
>>
>> Sergio,
>>
>> Is it case that a hierarchical LSP can have its own TS size independent
>> of the TS sizes of the underlying links over which it is routed?  Lou
>> and I and, separately, Biao and I, had conversations yesterday in which
>> we concluded that the answer was yes, but I thought I should ask you as
>> well.
>>
>> If the answer is yes, then we are probably heading in a direction in
>> which TS size needs to be advertised in routing for both forwarding
>> adjacencies as well as ODUk/OTUk links, as TS size becomes an end-to-
>> end property of an LSP that needs to be checked during its
>> establishment.  (An LSP for certain values of j can still be
>> established over a path containing links with heterogeneous TS sizes.)
>>
>> I think this may re-affirm utility of the signal type proposal from
>> Lou, Fatai, and I from Wednesday.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>> lucent.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:04 AM
>>> To: John E Drake
>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying; Ong, Lyndon
>>> Subject: R: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Yes John,
>>>
>>> In principle you could have a board able to structure interfaces at
>>> 1.25 but the matrix not able to switch ODU0 .
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> sergio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
>> di
>>> John E Drake
>>> Inviato: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 20.06
>>> A: Ong, Lyndon
>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
>>> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> Lyndon,
>>>
>>> Is it possible for an ODUk/OTUk link to have a 1.25 TS size without
>>> offering an ODU0 switching capability?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 28, 2011, at 2:02 PM, "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@ciena.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Is the TS size sufficiently implied by the advertisement of ODU0 as
>>>> a client?  I seem to recall some discussion about this a while
>> back.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Lyndon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of John E Drake
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:45 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>> Cc: CCAMP; CATR - Zhang Guoying
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I re-read yesterday's emails from Malcolm and Steve and it seems
>> that
>>>> having a node advertise the TS size of each of its interfaces is
>>>> useful for two reasons.
>>>>
>>>> 1) It allows the nodes at either end of an ODUk/OTUk link to
>> perform
>>>> the TS size determination in the control plane (Steve)
>>>>
>>>> 2) It allows the ingress node to compute a path containing links
>> with
>>>> the necessary TS size (Malcolm)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 6:07 PM, "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is certainly a red letter day; I agree with Steve.  Perhaps a
>>>>> medical check-up for both of us is advised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
>>>>>> [mailto:steve.trowbridge@alcatel-
>>>>>> lucent.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Jonathan Hardwick; John E Drake
>>>>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I don't understand how there is ever a scenario where "the
>> operator
>>>>>> knows they need" is a criteria regarding TS size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the perspective of the LO ODU, if you are transporting LO
>> ODU1
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> LO ODU2 over any combination of HO ODUk, these can be carried
>> over
>>>>>> either 1.25G or 2.5G TS capable HO ODUk. Different segments of
>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> connection can have different TS granularities along the path -
>> it
>>>>>> doesn't matter. If your LO ODU is an ODU0 or ODUflex, clearly the
>>> HO
>>>>>> ODUk must be 1.25G TS structured, and as a practical matter, a LO
>>>>>> ODU3
>>>>>> mapped into a HO ODUk is only carried over 1.25G TS because ODU4
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> presumably future larger ODUk) are only 1.25G TS structured. So
>> the
>>>>>> only "need" is that if you want to set up a LO ODU0, ODUflex, or
>>>>>> ODU3
>>>>>> connection, you need to find a route over 1.25G capable links. If
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are setting up a LO ODU1 or ODU2, you can use either or both on
>>>>>> different segments of the connection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the HO ODUk, the auto-negotiation ensures that if the
>>>>>> hardware on both ends is 1.25G TS capable, it will operate with
>>>>>> 1.25G
>>>>>> structuring, and if one (or both) ends can only support PT=3D20
>> 2.5G
>>>>>> TS
>>>>>> granularity, they fall back to that. There is no reason you would
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> need to force 2.5G TS granularity if the HW on both sides can
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> 1.25G TS granularity, as a 1.25G structured HO ODUk can carry all
>>> of
>>>>>> the same tributary types as a 2.5G TS structured HO ODUk. If the
>>>>>> hardware is not capable of 1.25G TS operation, then it isn't
>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work that way no matter what the operator wants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you need to be able to know the TS granularity of a given HO
>>> ODUk
>>>>>> link (either because the control plane is told the results of the
>>>>>> auto-
>>>>>> negotiation, or if the control plane replicates the results of
>> the
>>>>>> auto-negotiation by knowing the HW capabilities of the two
>> sides),
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> I don't see where you are ever asking for a particular TS
>>>>>> granularity.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Jonathan Hardwick
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:07 PM
>>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>>>> Cc: CATR - Zhang Guoying; CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand why it is necessary to signal the required TS size,
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>> don't think the signal type is the right place to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From a usability point of view, either the operator knows they
>>>>>> need a
>>>>>> TS granularity of 1.25 Gbps, or else they don't care.  It feels
>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>> to mandate that the TS size be requested in the signal type in
>> all
>>>>>> cases.  I don't see a use case for requesting a signal type of
>>> (say)
>>>>>> ODU3/TS=3D2.5G - can you elaborate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The TS size only matters on the final hop.  That is, it is
>> possible
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> an ODU3 signal to have intermediate spans at 2.5G granularity,
>> and
>>>>>> yet
>>>>>> 1.25G on the final hop.  If the requested signal type were
>>>>>> ODU3/1.25G,
>>>>>> this would be a valid path but somewhat counter-intuitive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would be better to encode the required TS size (where
>>>>>> one is
>>>>>> required) in the NMC field of the traffic parameters.  You can
>>> infer
>>>>>> the required TS size from that and the signal type.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 8-bit length field sounds a good idea to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of John E Drake
>>>>>> Sent: 27 July 2011 12:21
>>>>>> To: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli; GRANDI, PIETRO
>>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Infinera - Khuzema Pithewan; CATR -
>>>>>> Zhang
>>>>>> Guoying
>>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>>>> signaling
>>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size
>>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
>>> (I
>>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
>> size
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>>>> priori
>>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the
>>>>>> tributary
>>>>>> slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
>> TS
>>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
>> =3D
>>>>>> k)
>>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>>> integrity
>>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Thread-Topic: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73
thread-index: AcxMiGic4vbBtFK+R72U1cUZ6L4kMgDCz4Lg
From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, <tm-otani@kddi.com>, <danli@huawei.com>, <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Cc: "Mike Taillon \(mtaillon\)" <mtaillon@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of 3471/73
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Hi-=20

=20

I thought due to IETF and travel you may have missed this email; sending
it again.=20

=20

Thanks

=20

Regards ... Zafar=20

=20

From: Zafar Ali (zali)=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:10 PM
To: 'tm-otani@kddi.com'; 'danli@huawei.com'; 'ccamp@ietf.org'
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Lou Berger'; Mike Taillon (mtaillon)
Subject: How to differentiate between DWDM encocded labels of RFC6205
and LSC labels of 3471/73

=20

Dear authors of RFC6205 and all-=20

=20

>From RFC 6205 and RFC 3471, 3471, it is not clear how a receiver can
differentiate between LSC labels that are encoded for DWDM (as per RFC
6205) and non-DWDM encoded LSC labels from RFC 3471/73 (similar what is
expected of the sender of such labels).=20

=20

Please note that:

=20

*        Both labels are 32 bit long LSC labels.=20

*        There is no label type in any signaling message.=20

*        None of these RFCs specify what label encoding type should be
carried to indicate which LSP encoding type should be carried to
indicate how the signaling label is encoded. Can we/ should we use
encoding type to inferred the label type. If yes, this is not a 1:1
relationship and is not documented. =20

=20

Your follow-ups on this will be much appreciated.=20

=20

Thanks

=20

Regards ... Zafar=20

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi- <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I thought due to IETF and travel you may =
have missed this email; sending it again. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards ... Zafar =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Zafar Ali (zali) <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:10 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> 'tm-otani@kddi.com'; 'danli@huawei.com'; =
'ccamp@ietf.org'<br><b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Lou Berger'; Mike =
Taillon (mtaillon)<br><b>Subject:</b> How to differentiate between DWDM =
encocded labels of RFC6205 and LSC labels of =
3471/73<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Dear authors of RFC6205 and all- =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>From RFC 6205 and RFC 3471, 3471, it is not =
clear how a receiver can differentiate between LSC labels that are =
encoded for DWDM (as per RFC 6205) and non-DWDM encoded LSC labels from =
RFC 3471/73 (similar what is expected of the sender of such labels). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Please note that:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Both labels are 32 bit long LSC labels. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>There is no label type in any signaling =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>None of these RFCs specify what label =
encoding type should be carried to indicate which LSP encoding type =
should be carried to indicate how the signaling label is encoded. Can =
we/ should we use encoding type to inferred the label type. If yes, this =
is not a 1:1 relationship and is not documented. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Your follow-ups on this will be much =
appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>Regards ... Zafar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Biao Lu <blu@infinera.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:00:40 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn" <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not needed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP
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Lou,

[cut]
"I'd expect that a node to learn it's neighbor's supported TSG via configur=
ation or LMP.  Of course this does mean that we'll need some work on LMP."

Fully agree with your statement. Moreover the work has already been started=
 a couple of years ago (-00 version)
 http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-lmp-discovery-04

We interrupted the work on LMP for a while given the higher priority on req=
uirements, signaling and routing but is already there.

Thanks
Daniele


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: gioved=EC 28 luglio 2011 13.41
To: Biao Lu
Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling - explicit encoding of TSG is not need=
ed but multiplexing/adaptation information is needed for H-LSP

Biao,

WRT topic 1: link level
Label allocation will certainly need to represent the TS(s) allocated for a=
n LSP.  A scheme along the lines you suggest is likely to be needed and is =
likely to fall out of standard label negotiation, but it would be better fo=
r nodes to know this per link information before signaling begins and to av=
oid "probes"/negotiation.  Historically such "discovery"
is supported in GMPLS through link management, i.e., configuration or LMP. =
 As others have said before, and I agree, I'd expect that a node to learn i=
t's neighbor's supported TSG via configuration or LMP.  Of course this does=
 mean that we'll need some work on LMP.

WRT topic 2: H-LSPs
I think what you're saying is consistent with the general discussion (and t=
he reverse).  It sounds to me that you're proposing that in the simple case=
, the end-to-end information indicate the smallest ODU supported by the H-L=
SP. Is this correct?

What do think is needed to represent the cases where this is insufficient?

Lou


On 7/28/2011 1:44 AM, Biao Lu wrote:
> Hi folks:
>=20
> I like to bring everybody attention on a couple of observations on TSG to=
pic.=20
> Based on these observations, I think there is a way to satisfy the=20
> signaling requirements without explicitly encoding TSG in the message=20
> and without knowing remote TSG information of a TE link or H-LSP. But=20
> we need to carry multiplexing/adaptation information for H-LSP setup but =
not TSG.
>=20
> Observations:
>     1. Signalling cannot change the TSG used on a link. It is determined =
by the hardware. =20
>         A link that uses 1.25G TS can support any of the OTN payloads.  A=
 link that uses=20
>         2.5G TS cannot support some payloads e.g. ODUflex. (From Macolm's=
 email).
>     2. In current signaling draft, the TSG information can be derived fro=
m signal type + the
>         number of bits set in the bit map. For example, for a ODU1 signal=
, if there is only 1 bit
>         set, we can derive TSG to be 2.5G. If there are 2 bits set, we ca=
n derive TSG to be=20
>         1.25G. So there is no ambiguity in configuring the HW based on cu=
rrent label
>         definition which doesn't have explicit TSG information.
>=20
> How to support signaling over a link (i.e. Node A (TSG=3D1.25G)=20
> ------------- Node B (TSG=3D2.5G) ) without each end knowing the remote T=
SG information?
>=20
>       I like suggest a default label allocation scheme. This default sche=
me should be used=20
>       whenever those tributary slots are available for each signal type b=
ased on the server ODU.=20
>       The default tributary slot (TS) allocation scheme is: =20
>=20
>           First, try to allocate the TS in the way that is always compati=
ble with remote end as if the
>           remote end is with TSG=3D2.5G regardless local TSG value. If th=
e default TS is not available,=20
>           other TS can be used.=20
>      =20
>      With this allocation scheme, if successful, the hardware will automa=
tic pass traffic based on
>      observation #1. Since we don't know the remote TSG information, we m=
ight get crankback=20
>      from next hop instead of current hop when the request TS can't suppo=
rted by remote node
>      I think this is acceptable.
>=20
> H-LSP case:
>          There is a need for signaling to ensure that the H-LSP being set=
up can support the client=20
>          signal type. It is not about agreeing TSG here.=20
>=20
>          For example, if a ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU0 LSP setup,=20
>          the ODU2 H-LSP PATH message needs to indicate that the ODU2 bein=
g setup needs=20
>          to be able to support ODU0.
>=20
>          In another case, if the ODU2 H-LSP is triggered by a ODU1 LSP se=
tup, then the one end
>          of H-LSP can have TSG=3D1.25G and the other end can have TSG=3D2=
.5G. This is still a valid
>          H-LSP to support ODU1 over this H-LSP.
>=20
>         Yet another case, mgmt may request a setup of H-LSP with specific=
 multiplexing=20
>         hierarchy not a simple adaption.
>=20
>         Conclusion on H-LSP setup:
>            What we need to carry is the requested multiplexing capability=
 of=20
>            the H-LSP itself. For the simple case, we need to carry what c=
lient signal type=20
>            that can be adapted directly to this H-LSP. For more complex c=
ase, more than one=20
>            signal type or even hierarchical multiplexing capability will =
need to be carried.=20
>=20
> Biao
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20
> Of Margaria, Cyril (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: ext Lou Berger; Khuzema Pithewan
> Cc: CCAMP; zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> For the second case this is related to the adaptation, which is related t=
o the G-PID, and also apply when you want to transport SDH or any of the OP=
U payload type defined in G.709 table 15-8. The G-PID defined in RFC4328 do=
es allow to derive the PT to use, except to derive if PT 20 or 21 should be=
 used. One potential solution would be to defined a new G-PID indicating th=
e OPU carries an ODTUk.ts.
>=20
> Overall the TS is independent of the signal type, TS is a property of a s=
ingle multiplexing stage.=20
> For H-LSP in order to agree on the TS size, this is the same problem=20
> as a ODUk link provisioning, So mechanism like G-PID can be used to=20
> enforce a given adaptation, or LMP can be used to bring up the link=20
> with correlated properties, or solution using signaling (one of them=20
> was
> draft-roch-ccamp-lsp-hier-multi-client-00) could be considered.
>=20
> Best regards.
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
>> Behalf Of ext Lou Berger
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:49 PM
>> To: Khuzema Pithewan
>> Cc: zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] TS in Signaling
>>
>> Khuzema,
>> 	I fully admit that I haven't thought enough about this to be=20
>> convinced on any particular approach.  That said, what's the problem=20
>> with increasing the number of signal types, we have about 230 unused=20
>> values and are talking about using 3 of these.
>>
>> My understanding is that TSG comes into play in two cases.  The first=20
>> is the one you mention which has link-local scope.  The second, which=20
>> is the one that lead me to suggest using signal type, is when
> signaling
>> an
>> OTU1,2 or 3 H-LSP the H-LSP endpoints need to know the TSG requested=20
>> for the H-LSP. Since this latter case is one of end-to-end (of the H-
>> LSP) coordination, it makes sense for TSG to be carried in an=20
>> field/object with e2e significance.  This lead me to suggest signal=20
>> type.
>>
>> Lou (chair hat off)
>>
>> On 7/27/2011 2:57 PM, Khuzema Pithewan wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> TSG discussion started with objection of TSG in label, which was=20
>>> between 2 nodes  and was getting used to make sense of time slots.
>>> Now, that we are assuming that both the nodes know the TSG a priori,=20
>>> the mention of TSG in label is redundant.
>>>
>>> The TSG you are talking about now is more of property of a FA-LSP
> for
>>> client-LSP and using FA-LSP signaling to get intersection of TSG=20
>>> support by 2 ends of the FA-LSP. This is more of a link property=20
>>> discovery and correlation. LSP signaling can be used to communicate=20
>>> the property. We prefer a separate object that carries TSG in=20
>>> signaling message. Attaching TSG with signal type will just blow up=20
>>> the number of signal type and it is unwarranted.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Khuzema
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:04 PM
>>> To: Fatai Zhang; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>> GRANDI,
>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>
>>> As are we all.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:57 AM
>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;=20
>>>> GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> I have no strong opinion on your prososal if people like that.
>>>>
>>>> I am just thinking how to make things simpler and easier, :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatai
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>> To: "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>; "BELOTTI, SERGIO
>> (SERGIO)"
>>>> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Daniele Ceccarelli"
>>>> <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI, PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO=20
>>>> VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-lucent.com>; "Khuzema=20
>>>> Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>; <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:46 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: TS in Signaling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatai,
>>>>
>>>> I do think we also want the same combination, preferably with the=20
>>>> same encoding, in routing in the ODUj advertisement.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>> To: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); Daniele Ceccarelli;
>>>> GRANDI,
>>>>> PIETRO VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO); Khuzema Pithewan;=20
>>>>> zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn
>>>>> Cc: Lou Berger; CCAMP
>>>>> Subject: Re: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree with John on the statement: " The nice thing is that
>> this
>>>>> means that we do not need to have a-priori understanding between
>> the
>>>>> endpoints of a link regarding the tributary slot size to be used
> on
>>>>> that link."
>>>>>
>>>>> I just checked all the drafts related to OTN (e.g, FWK, Info,
> OSPF,
>>>>> RSVP) and found that Signal Type is independent of TS. I recall
>> that
>>>>> some experts suggested that Signal Type should be independent of
> TS
>>>> and
>>>>> consistent with ITU-T recommendtations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the simple alternative is to include TS in the label format,=20
>>>>> ie., the original Signal Type + TS (to replace John's combined=20
>>>>> Signal
>>>> Type).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>>> To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)"
> <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>;
>>>>> "Daniele Ceccarelli" <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; "GRANDI,
>>>> PIETRO
>>>>> VITTORIO (PIETRO VITTORIO)" <pietro_vittorio.grandi@alcatel-=20
>>>>> lucent.com>; "Khuzema Pithewan" <kpithewan@infinera.com>;=20
>>>>> <zhangguoying@mail.ritt.com.cn>
>>>>> Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>; "CCAMP" <ccamp@ietf.org>;=20
>>>>> "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:20 AM
>>>>> Subject: TS in Signaling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai, Lou, and I had a discussion of tributary slot size in
>>>> signaling
>>>>> and we have the following proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1)  Add a complete enumeration of all ODUj/tributary slot size=20
>>>>> combinations to Signal Type (e.g., ODU3/TS=3D1.25 & ODU3/TS=3D2.5G).
>> (I
>>>>> think this was there are one time.)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)  Use Signal Type in signaling instead of ODUj, ODUk, and TS
> size
>>>>>
>>>>> The nice thing is that this means that we do not need to have a-
>>>> priori
>>>>> understanding between the endpoints of a link regarding the=20
>>>>> tributary slot size to be used on that link.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also like to propose adding an 8 bit length field to the
> TS
>>>>> slot bit map and using the TS slot bit map even in the mapping (j
> =3D
>>>> k)
>>>>> case.  The former allows the receiver to perform an useful
>> integrity
>>>>> check and the latter allows uniform processing in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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