From nobody Sun Oct 6 06:25:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F5F12009E for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 06:25:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bunkus.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T-wDsdwH2Lqb for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 06:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adara.bunkus.org (adara.bunkus.org [144.76.6.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4D16120013 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 06:25:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bunkus.org; s=mail2018100901; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=L3hIOcYYNxSMSFQq5QgtT81u2fgZMplGzfynijqPiXo=; b=v2uLflnuhnTHvJxmqwV2sD/KJYRPpDWAogAUzg++G2Q32/U8zH1hdsw4O8QBuJLsBuz/Vxf5IFCxaGh7wVtXPxoI555aPwI6psYKx8ovcWpnGkzoYwvYE7FBobRmloRA5TTO/mazaU1zcL4BBvh8KrpNjMtJH1Ek/hwLdm4RbPo=; Received: from liselle.bunkus.org ([2a01:4f8:190:8147::105:1]:47484) by adara.bunkus.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1iH6Wt-0000gv-1x; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:24:56 +0200 Received: from sweet-chili.int.bunkus.org (unknown [10.55.5.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by liselle.bunkus.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06C9A65435EF; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 15:24:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sweet-chili (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sweet-chili.int.bunkus.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87868AC0A7; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 15:24:53 +0200 (CEST) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A09020E.5D99EB28.0012, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 User-agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.2 From: Moritz Bunkus To: Cellar list , matroska-users@lists.matroska.org Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:24:53 +0200 Message-ID: <87lfty3t22.fsf@bunkus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] MKVToolNix v38.0.0 release X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 13:25:04 -0000 Hey, Looks like it's time for MKVToolNix v38, which continues the bug-fixing tradition of previous releases. There's one minor change wrt. packaging: Boost's Operators header library is now required. Here are the usual links: =E2=80=A6to the source code: https://mkvtoolnix.download/source.html =E2=80=A6to the binaries: https://mkvtoolnix.download/downloads.html The Windows and macOS binaries as well as the Linux AppImage are available already. The other Linux binaries are still being built and will be available of the course of the next couple of hours. Here are the NEWS since the previous release: ------------------------------------------------------------ # Version 38.0.0 "The Silent Type" 2019-10-06 ## New features and enhancements * mkvextract: chapters, tags & cue sheets will now be written to standard output if no file name is given, same as if `-` is given as the file name. * MKVToolNix GUI: job queue: added a new setting in the preferences' "job queue & job status" section that, when enabled, will cause the GUI to rem= ove all output files created by jobs that are either aborted by the user or t= hat end in an error. Implements #2614. ## Bug fixes * all programs: macOS: fixed file access if the file name (including all pa= th components) contains any Unicode character where NFC (Normalization Form Canonical Composed) and NFD (Normalization Form Canonical Decomposed) differ, e.g. German Umlauts. Fixes #2620. * mkvmerge: when splitting by chapters the user can now split by chapters coming from one of the appended files, too. Fixes #2625. * mkvmerge: AAC reader: fixed reading codec parameters (channels, sample ra= te) if a file starts with garbage that includes valid-but-bogus AAC headers. Fixes #2622. * MKVToolNix GUI: Hebrew was added to the list of often-used languages so t= hat it can be selected by default again. Fixes #2610. * MKVToolNix GUI: when updating the GUI's settings from v37.0.0 or older, t= he GUI checks if the list of often-used languages equals the built-in list f= rom v36.0.0. If it does, it will be updated to the built-in list changed in v37.0.0. Fixes #2611. ## Build system changes * Boost's Operators header library is now required. ------------------------------------------------------------ Have fun :) Kind regards, mosu From nobody Thu Oct 10 07:33:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56AE8120124; Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:33:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.105.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157071799424.20422.624251554376598181@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:33:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-07.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 14:33:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : FFV1 Video Coding Format Version 4 Authors : Michael Niedermayer Dave Rice Jerome Martinez Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-07.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2019-10-10 Abstract: This document defines FFV1, a lossless intra-frame video encoding format. FFV1 is designed to efficiently compress video data in a variety of pixel formats. Compared to uncompressed video, FFV1 offers storage compression, frame fixity, and self-description, which makes FFV1 useful as a preservation or intermediate video format. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 10 07:33:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E981201B7; Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:33:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.105.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157071799431.20273.2350875136178428513@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 07:33:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-10.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 14:33:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : FFV1 Video Coding Format Version 0, 1, and 3 Authors : Michael Niedermayer Dave Rice Jerome Martinez Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-10.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2019-10-10 Abstract: This document defines FFV1, a lossless intra-frame video encoding format. FFV1 is designed to efficiently compress video data in a variety of pixel formats. Compared to uncompressed video, FFV1 offers storage compression, frame fixity, and self-description, which makes FFV1 useful as a preservation or intermediate video format. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Oct 20 11:23:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB0212003F for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:23:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xqT2-Duxs2sh for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C180212001A for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9F93818F for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 14:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3FD60 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 14:23:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: cellar@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] 2019-10-22 DRAFT AGENDA for virtual interim meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 18:23:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain {Please check the ACTION items in the minutes from last month} CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting October 22, 2019 19:00 UTC 21:00 Amsterdam 15:00 NYC 12:00 San Francisco INFO: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-cellar-09/session/cellar https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2019-cellar-09-sessa/ WEB CONFERENCE: https://appear.in/cellar-interim THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.) These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes 1. Note Well. 2. Accept draft minutes from September 24 meeting (attached below) 3. Logistics for Meeting. 2a) Etherpad for notes https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true 2b) APPEAR.IN is not called "whereby.com" https://whereby.com/cellar-interimw 2c) Roll call 4. WG status update * EBML -- version 11 was posted 2019-09-24, waiting for AD. * FFV1 -- version 10 was posted 2019-10-10, waitint for AD. 5. Interest in using gerrithub.io? For non-CLI uses, github has limitations lacking a web-based rebase process. http://gerrithub.io/ 6. Work on Matroska issues. 7. Any other business. NEXT meeting is 2019-12-03. ==== CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES for Virtual Interim Meeting September 24, 2019 19:00 UTC 21:00 Amsterdam 15:00 NYC 12:00 San Francisco NOTE new regular time. INFO: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-cellar-08/session/cellar https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2019-cellar-08-sessa/ WEB CONFERENCE: https://appear.in/cellar-interim THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.) These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes Participants/Roll Call: 1) Michael Richardson 2) Steve Lhomme 3) Timothy Terriberry 4) Martin Below 5) Dave Rice 6) Reto Kromer 7) Jerome Martinez 0) onlinemictest.com 1. Note Well ... https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/ 2. Accept draft minutes from August 27 meeting (attached below) Approved. 3. Logistics for Meeting. 2a) Etherpad for notes https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true 2b) APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com" https://whereby.com/cellar-interim 2c) Roll call 4. WG status update * EBML -- STILL WAITING ON REVISED -11 document for AD evaluation. Reworked the outstanding issues. Both reworked. One (#257) was merged today by Dave. Second one: #281. Merged now! Version 11 is posted at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ as of Sept. 24, 2019. 5. Remining EBML issues, hoping for none. Issue #279 https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/issues/279 CLOSED. Pull request: https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/281 DONE. needs (older) mmark 2.0.40 to build, not latest. (2.1.1 also works) bootstrap shell script will download correct one. 6. Work on Matroska issues. ACTION: #335 Agree that NextUID is the way to use hard-linking, PrevUID is used as a safety for recovery of missing segments (optional). ---> resulted in pull request #343. Closed after discussion. ACTION: #287 will get additional examples from Dave Rice. 7. Any other business. - ffv1 (0,1,3). trying to post the PDF to the Datatracker. - 8. Next meeting was 2019-10-29, will be moved to 2019-10-22. 9. UTF-8 issue in XML reference files from IETF tools for XHTML1.1 to report -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl2spjIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXyGwf/fPVIhtH/StPa8TRCwI1IjwhVqKN/kL4oBnrUr3Glo/hTwSDbDsc7aE4s eKQI380FW0gyhRvhJg1Sb6ALXjEZ4bwyYul6z+ehuVmBiFfQjrl3iGe3DJZqfJdJ D0ou7IODG1gjpHO/8SP29a2f/GwFdo0hr5z54QyNyTFF8i6mbKsxtA//jtzTgci9 FOMwU4JJL549FMXdfZRFbJ7tUZtaZPe7u3y3M+OwyEEyW1u6IKAUC3gP6YotU+M1 lf44Dr6mLtZvYMWY9txQ3gWktjeDTxpKeeU4DYxRltfgNCWx0BExLo9NiYxJ2ZTY JD5RLFhdbVc24cvV40wT8fGRM1nohQ== =DH4j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 21 08:27:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22DD01200EC; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 08:27:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.106.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 08:27:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:27:49 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : Extensible Binary Meta Language Authors : Steve Lhomme Dave Rice Moritz Bunkus Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt Pages : 50 Date : 2019-10-21 Abstract: This document defines the Extensible Binary Meta Language (EBML) format as a generalized file format for any type of data in a hierarchical form. EBML is designed as a binary equivalent to XML and uses a storage-efficient approach to build nested Elements with identifiers, lengths, and values. Similar to how an XML Schema defines the structure and semantics of an XML Document, this document defines how EBML Schemas are created to convey the semantics of an EBML Document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 21 10:50:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F5A120105; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 10:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57Yqo3KgnEHY; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 10:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10C781200F7; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 10:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719293897C; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 13:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DDD612; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 13:50:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org cc: Dave Rice In-Reply-To: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 17:50:22 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Dave, is ebml in XML v3, uploaded as such? Were the txt and HTML generated by you or the datatracker? > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 looking at the diff of the txt, there are a bunch of relative references which did not get expanded correctly from the markdown: unknownsizeallowed attribute (#unknownsizeallowed)). Looks like a tooling issue somewhere. Looking at this: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html I don't see #unknownsizeallowed in the same way, but the reference that is generated looks off to me. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl2t79kACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWPywf9FWgfjEIyiA81BrqQFMHSREqYwtCXdSWSMqhJcXCbjSjqAJ99/4C9uXZ9 bLx0yYycDfwt/7Ann9gAnFGKQf3nnY0Xp+WhJtj/cbxcCud61rMY+a5KIRHNuuRN U+zlb0f/CPEofzVzboV13Ab2MRRxFYz29LZ+rGOpGRYzhlEl14gOa7HZ2Vv7gZCj kmrtHyoH9H14A6t+lMNChiKXCdgtgEOEA/C9pHQ8mUoaSWH3ODnmz3HVUIa5QxMQ MfiqSunFks/xZVw9pAh/LaMomffXkMFfeFnOENtEyvuoEatzzTIMBYo1nEmRqrxY +ykRiyQ9df3ard4yz2BMAuRWtRALAw== =YBdH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Oct 21 11:22:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C48B1201DB; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x08mwcrOQZ3V; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88722120108; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=50482 helo=[10.10.201.23]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iMcJs-004JSE-AA; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 14:22:17 -0400 From: Dave Rice Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_826F171C-452B-41F2-8E91-66701F5AD401" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 14:22:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <2259.1571680217@localhost> Cc: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:22:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_826F171C-452B-41F2-8E91-66701F5AD401 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Michael, > On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dave, is ebml in XML v3, uploaded as such? It was uploaded via https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ = . > Were the txt and HTML generated by you or the datatracker? With xml2rfc 2.32.0 locally the files look ok, I=E2=80=99m attaching = them. I haven=E2=80=99t tested but in the XML within the we have = 0x0A for line breaks. I wonder if an 0x0d (carriage return) would make a = difference, though I feel guilty using up version numbers just to test = that. >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 >=20 > looking at the diff of the txt, there are a bunch of relative = references which did not > get expanded correctly from the markdown: >=20 > unknownsizeallowed attribute (#unknownsizeallowed)). I=E2=80=99ll address that separately. > Looks like a tooling issue somewhere. > Looking at this: > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html >=20 > I don't see #unknownsizeallowed in the same way, but the reference = that is > generated looks off to me. >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT = architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on = rails [ >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_826F171C-452B-41F2-8E91-66701F5AD401 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435" --Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Michael,

On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Michael = Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:


Dave, is ebml in XML v3, uploaded as such?

It = was uploaded via https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/.

Were the txt and HTML generated by you or the datatracker?

With xml2rfc 2.32.0 locally the files look = ok, I=E2=80=99m attaching them.

I = haven=E2=80=99t tested but in the XML within the <sourcecode> we = have 0x0A for line breaks. I wonder if an 0x0d (carriage return) would = make a difference, though I feel guilty using up version numbers just to = test that.

A diff = from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12

looking at the diff of the = txt, there are a bunch of relative references which did not
get expanded correctly from the markdown:

   unknownsizeallowed attribute = (#unknownsizeallowed)).


Looks like a tooling issue somewhere.
Looking = at this:
 https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html

I don't see #unknownsizeallowed in the same = way, but the reference that is
generated looks off to = me.

--
] =             &n= bsp; Never tell me the odds! =             &n= bsp;   | ipv6 mesh networks [
] =   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works =        |    IoT = architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca =  http://www.sandelman.ca/ =        |   ruby on rails =    [


= --Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html Content-Type: text/html; x-unix-mode=0644; name="draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Extensible Binary Meta Language
Internet-Draft EBML October 2019
Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page]
Workgroup:
cellar
Internet-Draft:
draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12
Published:
Intended Status:
Standards Track
Expires:
Authors:
S. Lhomme
D. Rice
M. Bunkus

Extensible Binary Meta Language

Abstract

This document defines the Extensible Binary = Meta Language (EBML) format as a generalized file format for any type of = data in a hierarchical form. EBML is designed as a binary equivalent to = XML and uses a storage-efficient approach to build nested Elements with = identifiers, lengths, and values. Similar to how an XML Schema defines = the structure and semantics of an XML Document, this document defines = how EBML Schemas are created to convey the semantics of an EBML = Document.=C2=B6

Status of This Memo

This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79.=C2=B6

Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet = Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current = Internet-Drafts is at https://datatracker.= ietf.org/drafts/current/.=C2=B6

Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six = months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at = any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."=C2=B6

This Internet-Draft will expire on 23 April 2020.=C2=B6

Copyright (c) 2019 IETF Trust and the persons identified as = the document authors. All rights reserved.=C2=B6

This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's = Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (https://trustee.ietf.org/li= cense-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions = with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from = this document must include Simplified BSD License text as = described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided = without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License.=C2=B6

=E2=96=B2<= /a>

Table = of Contents

1.=C2=A0Introduction

EBML, short for Extensible Binary Meta Language, = specifies a binary and octet (byte) aligned format inspired by the = principle of XML (a framework for structuring data).=C2=B6

The goal of this document is to define a generic, = binary, space-efficient format that can be used to define more complex = formats using an EBML Schema. EBML is used by the multimedia container = Matroska<= /a>. The applicability of EBML for other use cases is beyond the scope = of this document.=C2=B6

=

The definition of the EBML format recognizes the = idea behind HTML and XML as a good one: separate structure and semantics = allowing the same structural layer to be used with multiple, possibly = widely differing semantic layers. Except for the EBML Header and a few = Global Elements this specification does not define particular EBML = format semantics; however this specification is intended to define how = other EBML-based formats can be defined, such as the audio-video = container formats Matroska and WebM.=C2=B6

EBML uses a simple approach of building Elements = upon three pieces of data (tag, length, and value) as this approach is = well known, easy to parse, and allows selective data parsing. The EBML = structure additionally allows for hierarchical arrangement to support = complex structural formats in an efficient manner.=C2=B6

A typical EBML file has the following structure:=C2=B6

EBML Header (master)
  + DocType (string)
  + DocTypeVersion (unsigned integer)
EBML Body Root (master)
  + ElementA (utf-8)
  + Parent (master)
    + ElementB (integer)
  + Parent (master)
    + ElementB (integer)
=C2=B6

2.=C2=A0Notation and Conventions

The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", = "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT = RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be = interpreted as described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in = all capitals, as shown here.=C2=B6

This document defines specific terms in order to = define the format and application of EBML. Specific terms = are defined below:=C2=B6

EBML: Extensible Binary Meta = Language=C2=B6

EBML Document Type: A name provided = by an EBML Schema to designate a particular implementation = of EBML for a data format (e.g.: matroska and webm).=C2=B6

EBML Schema: A standardized = definition for the structure of an EBML Document Type.=C2=B6

EBML Document: A datastream comprised = of only two components, an EBML Header and an EBML = Body.=C2=B6

EBML Reader: A data parser that = interprets the semantics of an EBML Document and creates a = way for programs to use EBML.=C2=B6

EBML Stream: A file that consists of = one or more EBML Documents that are concatenated = together.=C2=B6

EBML Header: A declaration that = provides processing instructions and identification of the EBML = Body. The EBML Header is analogous to an XML = Declaration [W3C.REC-xml-20081126] (see section 2.8 on = Prolog and Document Type Declaration).=C2=B6

EBML Body: All data of an EBML = Document following the EBML Header.=C2=B6

Variable Size Integer: A compact = variable-length binary value which defines its own length.=C2=B6

VINT: Also known as Variable = Size Integer.=C2=B6=

EBML Element: A foundation block of = data that contains three parts: an Element ID, an = Element Data Size, and Element Data.=C2=B6

Element ID: The Element = ID is a binary value, encoded as a Variable Size = Integer, used to uniquely identify a defined EBML = Element within a specific EBML Schema.=C2=B6

EBML Class: A representation of the = octet length of an Element ID.=C2=B6

Element Data Size: An expression, = encoded as a Variable Size Integer, of the length in octets = of Element Data.=C2=B6

VINTMAX: The maximum possible value = that can be stored as Element Data Size.=C2=B6

Unknown-Sized Element: An = Element with an unknown Element Data Size.=C2=B6

Element Data: The value(s) of the = EBML Element which is identified by its Element = ID and Element Data Size. The form of the = Element Data is defined by this document and the = corresponding EBML Schema of the Element's EBML = Document Type.=C2=B6

Root Level: The starting level in = the hierarchy of an EBML Document.=C2=B6

Root Element: A mandatory, = non-repeating EBML Element which occurs at the top level of = the path hierarchy within an EBML Body and contains all = other EBML Elements of the EBML Body, = excepting optional Void Elements.=C2=B6

Top-Level Element: An EBML = Element defined to only occur as a Child Element of = the Root Element.=C2=B6

Master Element: The Master = Element contains zero, one, or many other EBML = Elements.=C2=B6

=

Child Element: A Child = Element is a relative term to describe the EBML = Elements immediately contained within a Master = Element.=C2=B6

Parent Element: A relative term to = describe the Master Element which contains a specified = element. For any specified EBML Element that is not at = Root Level, the Parent Element refers to the = Master Element in which that EBML Element is = contained.=C2=B6

Descendant Element: A relative term = to describe any EBML Elements contained within a = Master Element, including any of the Child = Elements of its Child Elements, and so on.=C2=B6

Void Element: A Void = Element is an Element used to overwrite data or = reserve space within a Master Element for later use.=C2=B6

Element Name: The human-readable = name of the EBML Element.=C2=B6

Element Path: The hierarchy of = Parent Element where the EBML Element is = expected to be found in the EBML Body.=C2=B6

Empty Element: An EBML = Element that has an Element Data Size with all = VINT_DATA bits set to zero, which indicates that the = Element Data of the Element is zero octets in = length.=C2=B6

3.=C2=A0Structure

EBML uses a system of Elements to compose an EBML = Document. EBML Elements incorporate three parts: an Element ID, an = Element Data Size, and Element Data. The Element Data, which is = described by the Element ID, includes either binary data, one or more = other EBML Elements, or both.=C2=B6

4.=C2=A0Variable Size Integer

The Element ID and Element Data Size are both = encoded as a Variable Size Integer. The Variable Size Integer is = composed of a VINT_WIDTH, VINT_MARKER, and VINT_DATA, in that order. = Variable Size Integers MUST left-pad the VINT_DATA value with zero bits = so that the whole Variable Size Integer is octet-aligned. Variable Size = Integer will be referred to as VINT for shorthand.=C2=B6

4.1.=C2=A0VINT_WIDTH

Each Variable Size Integer begins with a = VINT_WIDTH which consists of zero or many zero-value bits. The count of = consecutive zero-values of the VINT_WIDTH plus one equals the length in = octets of the Variable Size Integer. For example, a Variable Size = Integer that starts with a VINT_WIDTH which contains zero consecutive = zero-value bits is one octet in length and a Variable Size Integer that = starts with one consecutive zero-value bit is two octets in length. The = VINT_WIDTH MUST only contain zero-value bits or be empty.=C2=B6

Within the EBML Header the VINT_WIDTH of a VINT = MUST NOT exceed three bits in length (meaning that the Variable Size = Integer MUST NOT exceed four octets in length) except if said VINT is = used to express the Element Data Size of an EBML Element with Element = Name EBML and Element ID 0x1A45DFA3 (see the definition of the EBML Element) in which = case the VINT_WIDTH MUST NOT exceed seven bits in length. Within the = EBML Body, when a VINT is used to express an Element ID, the maximum = length allowed for the VINT_WIDTH is one less than the value set in the = EBMLMaxIDLength Element. Within the EBML Body, when a VINT is used to = express an Element Data Size, the maximum length allowed for the = VINT_WIDTH is one less than the value set in the EBMLMaxSizeLength = Element.=C2=B6

4.2.=C2=A0VINT_MARKER

The VINT_MARKER serves as a separator between = the VINT_WIDTH and VINT_DATA. Each Variable Size Integer MUST contain = exactly one VINT_MARKER. The VINT_MARKER is one bit in length and = contain a bit with a value of one. The first bit with a value of one = within the Variable Size Integer is the VINT_MARKER.=C2=B6

4.3.=C2=A0VINT_DATA

The VINT_DATA portion of the Variable Size = Integer includes all data that follows (but not including) the = VINT_MARKER until end of the Variable Size Integer whose length is = derived from the VINT_WIDTH. The bits required for the VINT_WIDTH and = the VINT_MARKER use one out of every eight bits of the total length of = the Variable Size Integer. Thus a Variable Size Integer of 1 octet = length supplies 7 bits for VINT_DATA, a 2 octet length supplies 14 bits = for VINT_DATA, and a 3 octet length supplies 21 bits for VINT_DATA. If = the number of bits required for VINT_DATA are less than the bit size of = VINT_DATA, then VINT_DATA MUST be zero-padded to the left to a size that = fits. The VINT_DATA value MUST be expressed as a big-endian unsigned = integer.=C2=B6

4.4.=C2=A0VINT = Examples

This table shows examples of Variable Size = Integers with lengths from 1 to 5 octets. The Usable Bits column refers = to the number of bits that can be used in the VINT_DATA. The = Representation column depicts a binary expression of Variable Size = Integers where VINT_WIDTH is depicted by 0, the VINT_MARKER = as 1, and the VINT_DATA as x.=C2=B6

Table = 1
Octet = Length Usable = Bits Representation
1 7 1xxx = xxxx
2 14 01xx = xxxx xxxx xxxx
3 21 001x = xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx
4 28 0001 = xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx
5 35 0000 = 1xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

Data encoded as a Variable Size Integer may be = rendered at octet lengths larger than needed to store the data in order = to facilitate overwriting it at a later date, e.g. when its final size = isn't known in advance. In this table a binary value of 0b10 is shown = encoded as different Variable Size Integers with lengths from one octet = to four octets. All four encoded examples have identical semantic = meaning though the VINT_WIDTH and the padding of the VINT_DATA vary.=C2=B6

Table = 2
Binary = Value Octet = Length As = Represented in Variable Size Integer
10 1 1000 = 0010
10 2 0100 = 0000 0000 0010
10 3 0010 = 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010
10 4 0001 = 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010

5.=C2=A0Element ID

The Element ID is encoded as a Variable Size = Integer. By default, Element IDs are encoded in lengths from one octet = to four octets, although Element IDs of greater lengths MAY be used if = the EBMLMaxIDLength Element of the EBML Header is set to a value greater = than four (see the section on the = EBMLMaxIDLength Element). The VINT_DATA component of the Element ID = MUST NOT be either defined or written as either all zero values or all = one values. Any Element ID with the VINT_DATA component set as all zero = values or all one values MUST be ignored. The VINT_DATA component of the = Element ID MUST be encoded at the shortest valid length. For example, an = Element ID with binary encoding of 1011 1111 is valid, = whereas an Element ID with binary encoding of 0100 0000 0011 = 1111 stores a semantically equal VINT_DATA but is invalid because = a shorter VINT encoding is possible. Additionally, an Element ID with = binary encoding of 1111 1111 is invalid since the VINT_DATA = section is set to all one values, whereas an Element ID with binary = encoding of 0100 0000 0111 1111 stores a semantically equal = VINT_DATA and is the shortest possible VINT encoding.=C2=B6

The following table details these specific = examples further:=C2=B6

= = = =
Table = 3
VINT_WIDTH VINT_MARKER VINT_DATA Element = ID Status
1 0000000 Invalid: = VINT_DATA MUST NOT be set to all 0
0 1 00000000000000 Invalid: = VINT_DATA MUST NOT be set to all 0
1 0000001 Valid
0 1 00000000000001 Invalid: = A shorter VINT_DATA encoding is available.
1 0111111 Valid
0 1 00000000111111 Invalid: = A shorter VINT_DATA encoding is available.
1 1111111 Invalid: = VINT_DATA MUST NOT be set to all 1
0 1 00000001111111 Valid

The octet length of an Element ID determines its = EBML Class.=C2=B6

Table = 4
EBML = Class Length Possible= IDs Number = of IDs
Class = A 1 0x81 - = 0xFE 126
Class = B 2 0x407F = - 0x7FFE 16,256
Class = C 3 0x203FFF= - 0x3FFFFE 2,080,768
Class = D 4 0x101FFFFF - 0x1FFFFFFE 268,338,304

6.=C2=A0Element = Data Size

6.1.=C2=A0Data = Size Format

The Element Data Size expresses the length in = octets of Element Data. The Element Data Size itself is encoded as a = Variable Size Integer. By default, Element Data Sizes can be encoded in = lengths from one octet to eight octets, although Element Data Sizes of = greater lengths MAY be used if the octet length of the longest Element = Data Size of the EBML Document is declared in the EBMLMaxSizeLength = Element of the EBML Header (see the= section on the EBMLMaxSizeLength Element). Unlike the VINT_DATA of = the Element ID, the VINT_DATA component of the Element Data Size is not = mandated to be encoded at the shortest valid length. For example, an = Element Data Size with binary encoding of 1011 1111 or a binary encoding = of 0100 0000 0011 1111 are both valid Element Data Sizes and both store = a semantically equal value (both 0b00000000111111 and 0b0111111, the = VINT_DATA sections of the examples, represent the integer 63).=C2=B6

Although an Element ID with all VINT_DATA bits = set to zero is invalid, an Element Data Size with all VINT_DATA bits set = to zero is allowed for EBML Element Types which do not mandate a = non-zero length (see the section on EBML = Element Types). An Element Data Size with all VINT_DATA bits set to = zero indicates that the Element Data is zero octets in length. Such an = EBML Element is referred to as an Empty Element. If an Empty Element has = a default value declared then the EBML Reader MUST interpret the value = of the Empty Element as the default value. If an Empty Element has no = default value declared then the EBML Reader MUST use the value of the = Empty Element for the corresponding EBML Element Type of the Element ID, = 0 for numbers and an empty string for strings.=C2=B6

6.2.=C2=A0Unknown = Data Size

An Element Data Size with all VINT_DATA bits set = to one is reserved as an indicator that the size of the EBML Element is = unknown. The only reserved value for the VINT_DATA of Element Data Size = is all bits set to one. An EBML Element with an unknown Element Data = Size is referred to as an Unknown-Sized Element. A Master Element MAY be = an Unknown-Sized Element; however an EBML Element that is not a Master = Element MUST NOT be an Unknown-Sized Element. Master Elements MUST NOT = use an unknown size unless the unknownsizeallowed attribute of their = EBML Schema is set to true (see the = section on the unknownsizeallowed attribute).=C2=B6

The use of Unknown-Sized Elements allows for an = EBML Element to be written and read before the size of the EBML Element = is known. Unknown-Sized Element MUST NOT be used or defined = unnecessarily; however if the Element Data Size is not known before the = Element Data is written, such as in some cases of data streaming, then = Unknown-Sized Elements MAY be used. The end of an Unknown-Sized Element = is determined by whichever comes first:=C2=B6

  • Any EBML Element that is a valid = Parent Element of the Unknown-Sized Element according to the EBML = Schema, Global Elements excluded.=C2=B6

  • Any valid EBML Element according = to the EBML Schema, Global Elements = excluded, that is not a Descendant Element of the Unknown-Sized Element = but share a common direct parent, such as a Top-Level Element.=C2=B6

  • Any EBML Element that is a valid = Root Element according to the EBML Schema, Global Elements excluded.=C2=B6

  • The end of the Parent Element = with a known size has been reached.=C2=B6

  • The end of the EBML Document, = either when reaching the end of the file or because a new EBML Header = started.=C2=B6

Consider an Unknown-Sized Element which EBML = path is \root\level1\level2\elt. When reading a new Element = ID, assuming the EBML Path of that new Element is valid, here are some = possible and impossible ways that this new Element is ending = elt:=C2=B6
Table = 5
EBML = Path of new element Status
\root\level1\level2 Ends = the Unknown-Sized Element, as it is a new Parent Element
\root\level1 Ends = the Unknown-Sized Element, as it is a new Parent Element
\root Ends = the Unknown-Sized Element, as it is a new Root Element
\root2 Ends = the Unknown-Sized Element, as it is a new Root Element
\root\level1\level2\other Ends = the Unknown-Sized Element, as they share the same parent
\root\level1\level2\elt Ends = the Unknown-Sized Element, as they share the same parent
\root\level1\level2\elt\inside Doesn't = end the Unknown-Sized Element, it's a child of elt
\root\level1\level2\elt\<global> Global = Element is valid, it's a child of elt
\root\level1\level2\<global> Global = Element cannot be assumed to have this path, while parsing = elt it can only be a child of elt

6.3.=C2=A0Data = Size Values

For Element Data Sizes encoded at octet lengths = from one to eight, this table depicts the range of possible values that = can be encoded as an Element Data Size. An Element Data Size with an = octet length of 8 is able to express a size of 2^56-2 or = 72,057,594,037,927,934 octets (or about 72 petabytes). The maximum = possible value that can be stored as Element Data Size is referred to as = VINTMAX.=C2=B6

Table = 6
Octet = Length Possible= Value Range
1 0 to = 27-2
2 0 to = 214-2
3 0 to = 221-2
4 0 to = 228-2
5 0 to = 235-2
6 0 to = 242-2
7 0 to = 249-2
8 0 to = 256-2

If the length of Element Data equals 2^(n*7)-1 = then the octet length of the Element Data Size MUST be at least n+1. = This rule prevents an Element Data Size from being expressed as the = unknown size value. The following table clarifies this rule by showing a = valid and invalid expression of an Element Data Size with a VINT_DATA of = 127 (which is equal to 2^(1*7)-1) and 16,383 (which is equal to = 2(2*7)-1).=C2=B6

= =
Table = 7
VINT_WIDTH VINT_MARKER VINT_DATA Element = Data Size Status
1 1111111 Reserved= (meaning Unknown)
0 1 00000001111111 Valid = (meaning 127 octets)
001 000000000000001111111 Valid = (meaning 127 octets)
0 1 11111111111111 Reserved= (meaning Unknown)
001 000000011111111111111 Valid = (16,383 octets)

7.=C2=A0EBML = Element Types

EBML Elements are defined by an EBML Schema (see = Section 11.1) which MUST = declare one of the following EBML Element Types for each EBML Element. = An EBML Element Type defines a concept of storing data within an EBML = Element that describes such characteristics as length, endianness, and = definition.=C2=B6

EBML Elements which are defined as a Signed = Integer Element, Unsigned Integer Element, Float Element, or Date = Element use big endian storage.=C2=B6

7.1.=C2=A0Signed Integer Element

A Signed Integer Element MUST declare a length = from zero to eight octets. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a = default value, then a Signed Integer Element with a zero-octet length = represents an integer value of zero.=C2=B6

A Signed Integer Element stores an integer = (meaning that it can be written without a fractional component) which = could be negative, positive, or zero. Signed Integers are stored with = two's complement notation with the leftmost bit being the sign bit. = Because EBML limits Signed Integers to 8 octets in length a Signed = Integer Element stores a number from -9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to = +9,223,372,036,854,775,807.=C2=B6

7.2.=C2=A0Unsigned Integer Element

An Unsigned Integer Element MUST declare a = length from zero to eight octets. If the EBML Element is not defined to = have a default value, then an Unsigned Integer Element with a zero-octet = length represents an integer value of zero.=C2=B6

An Unsigned Integer Element stores an integer = (meaning that it can be written without a fractional component) which = could be positive or zero. Because EBML limits Unsigned Integers to 8 = octets in length an Unsigned Integer Element stores a number from 0 to = 18,446,744,073,709,551,615.=C2=B6

7.3.=C2=A0Float = Element

A Float Element MUST declare a length of either = zero octet (0 bit), four octets (32 bit) or eight octets (64 bit). If = the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then a Float = Element with a zero-octet length represents a numerical value of zero.=C2=B6

A Float Element stores a floating-point number = as defined in [IEEE.754.1985].=C2=B6

7.4.=C2=A0String = Element

A String Element MUST declare a length in octets = from zero to VINTMAX. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a = default value, then a String Element with a zero-octet length represents = an empty string.=C2=B6

A String Element MUST either be empty = (zero-length) or contain printable ASCII characters [RFC0020] in the range of = 0x20 to 0x7E, with an exception made for termination (see the section on the Terminating = Elements).=C2=B6

7.5.=C2=A0UTF-8 = Element

A UTF-8 Element MUST declare a length in octets = from zero to VINTMAX. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a = default value, then a UTF-8 Element with a zero-octet length represents = an empty string.=C2=B6

A UTF-8 Element contains only a valid Unicode = string as defined in [RFC3629], with an exception made for = termination (see the section on the = Terminating Elements).=C2=B6

7.6.=C2=A0Date = Element

A Date Element MUST declare a length of either = zero octets or eight octets. If the EBML Element is not defined to have = a default value, then a Date Element with a zero-octet length represents = a timestamp of 2001-01-01T00:00:00.000000000 UTC [RFC3339].=C2=B6

The Date Element stores an integer in the same = format as the Signed Integer Element that expresses a point in time = referenced in nanoseconds from the precise beginning of the third = millennium of the Gregorian Calendar in Coordinated Universal Time (also = known as 2001-01-01T00:00:00.000000000 UTC). This provides a possible = expression of time from 1708-09-11T00:12:44.854775808 UTC to = 2293-04-11T11:47:16.854775807 UTC.=C2=B6

7.7.=C2=A0Master = Element

A Master Element MUST declare a length in octets = from zero to VINTMAX. The Master Element MAY also use an unknown length. = See the section on Element Data Size = for rules that apply to elements of unknown length.=C2=B6

The Master Element contains zero, one, or many = other elements. EBML Elements contained within a Master Element MUST = have the EBMLParentPath of their Element Path equal to the = EBMLMasterPath of the Master Element Element Path (see the section on the EBML Path). Element Data stored = within Master Elements SHOULD only consist of EBML Elements and SHOULD = NOT contain any data that is not part of an EBML Element. The EBML = Schema identifies what Element IDs are valid within the Master Elements = for that version of the EBML Document Type. Any data contained within a = Master Element that is not part of a Child Element MUST be ignored.=C2=B6

7.8.=C2=A0Binary = Element

A Binary Element MUST declare a length in octets = from zero to VINTMAX.=C2=B6

The contents of a Binary Element should not be = interpreted by the EBML Reader.=C2=B6

8.=C2=A0EBML = Document

An EBML Document is comprised of only two = components, an EBML Header and an EBML Body. An EBML Document MUST start = with an EBML Header that declares significant characteristics of the = entire EBML Body. An EBML Document consists of EBML Elements and MUST = NOT contain any data that is not part of an EBML Element.=C2=B6

8.1.=C2=A0EBML = Header

The EBML Header is a declaration that provides = processing instructions and identification of the EBML Body. The EBML = Header of an EBML Document is analogous to the XML Declaration of an XML = Document.=C2=B6

The EBML Header documents the EBML Schema (also = known as the EBML DocType) that is used to semantically interpret the = structure and meaning of the EBML Document. Additionally the EBML Header = documents the versions of both EBML and the EBML Schema that were used = to write the EBML Document and the versions required to read the EBML = Document.=C2=B6

The EBML Header MUST contain a single Master = Element with an Element Name of EBML and Element ID of 0x1A45DFA3 (see = the definition of the EBML Element) and = any number of additional EBML Elements within it. The EBML Header of an = EBML Document that uses an EBMLVersion of 1 MUST only contain EBML = Elements that are defined as part of this document.=C2=B6

8.2.=C2=A0EBML Body

All data of an EBML Document following the EBML = Header is the EBML Body. The end of the EBML Body, as well as the end of = the EBML Document that contains the EBML Body, is reached at whichever = comes first: the beginning of a new EBML Header at the Root Level or the = end of the file. The EBML Body MUST NOT contain any data that is not = part of an EBML Element. This document defines precisely which EBML = Elements are to be used within the EBML Header, but does not name or = define which EBML Elements are to be used within the EBML Body. The = definition of which EBML Elements are to be used within the EBML Body is = defined by an EBML Schema.=C2=B6

9.=C2=A0EBML = Stream

An EBML Stream is a file that consists of one or = more EBML Documents that are concatenated together. An occurrence of a = EBML Header at the Root Level marks the beginning of an EBML Document.=C2=B6

10.=C2=A0EBML = Versioning

An EBML Document handles 2 different versions: = the version of the EBML Header and the version of the EBML Body. Both = versions are meant to be backward compatible.=C2=B6

10.1.=C2=A0= EBML Header Version

The version of the EBML Header is found in = EBMLVersion. An EBML parser can read an EBML Header if it can read = either the EBMLVersion version or a version equal or higher than the one = found in EBMLReadVersion.=C2=B6

10.2.=C2=A0= EBML Document Version

The version of the EBML Body is found in = EBMLDocTypeVersion. A parser for the particular DocType format can read = the EBML Document if it can read either the EBMLDocTypeVersion version = of that format or a version equal or higher than the one found in = EBMLDocTypeReadVersion.=C2=B6

11.=C2=A0Elements = semantic

11.1.=C2=A0= EBML = Schema

An EBML Schema is a well-formed XML Document = [W3C.REC-xml-20081126] that defines the = properties, arrangement, and usage of EBML Elements that compose a = specific EBML Document Type. The relationship of an EBML Schema to an = EBML Document is analogous to the relationship of an XML Schema = [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] to an XML = Document [W3C.REC-xml-20081126]. An EBML Schema MUST be = clearly associated with one or more EBML Document Types. An EBML = Document Type is identified by a string stored within the EBML Header in = the DocType Element; for example matroska or webm (see the definition of the DocType Element). = The DocType value for an EBML Document Type MUST be unique and = persistent.=C2=B6

An EBML Schema MUST declare exactly one EBML = Element at Root Level (referred to as the Root Element) that occurs = exactly once within an EBML Document. The Void Element MAY also occur at = Root Level but is not a Root Element (see the = definition of the Void Element).=C2=B6

The EBML Schema MUST document all Elements of = the EBML Body. The EBML Schema does not document Global Elements that are defined by this = document (namely the Void Element and the CRC-32 Element).=C2=B6

The EBML Schema MUST NOT use the Element ID = 0x1A45DFA3 which is reserved for the EBML Header for = resynchronization purpose.=C2=B6

An EBML Schema MAY constrain the use of EBML = Header Elements (see EBML Header = Elements) by adding or constraining that Element's = range attribute. For example, an EBML Schema MAY constrain = the EBMLMaxSizeLength to a maximum value of 8 or MAY = constrain the EBMLVersion to only support a value of 1. If = an EBML Schema adopts the EBML Header Element as-is, then it is not = required to document that Element within the EBML Schema. If an EBML = Schema constrains the range of an EBML Header Element, then that Element = MUST be documented within an <element> node of the = EBML Schema. This document provides an example of an EBML Schema, see EBML Schema Example.=C2=B6

11.1.1.=C2=A0EBML Schema Example 

<?xml version=3D"1.0" =
encoding=3D"utf-8"?>
<EBMLSchema xmlns=3D"https://ietf.org/cellar/ebml"
  docType=3D"files-in-ebml-demo" version=3D"1">
 <!-- constraints to the range of two EBML Header Elements -->
 <element name=3D"EBMLReadVersion" path=3D"1*1(\EBML\EBMLReadVersion)"
   id=3D"0x42F7" minOccurs=3D"1" maxOccurs=3D"1" range=3D"1" default=3D"1"=

   type=3D"uinteger"/>
 <element name=3D"EBMLMaxSizeLength"
   path=3D"1*1(\EBML\EBMLMaxSizeLength)" id=3D"0x42F3" minOccurs=3D"1"
   maxOccurs=3D"1" range=3D"8" default=3D"8" type=3D"uinteger"/>
 <!-- Root Element-->
 <element name=3D"Files" path=3D"*1(\Files)" id=3D"0x1946696C"
   type=3D"master">
  <documentation lang=3D"en" purpose=3D"definition">Container of =
data and
  attributes representing one or many files.</documentation>
 </element>
 <element name=3D"File" path=3D"1*(\Files\File)" id=3D"0x6146"
   type=3D"master" minOccurs=3D"1">
  <documentation lang=3D"en" purpose=3D"definition">
    An attached file.
  </documentation>
 </element>
 <element name=3D"FileName" path=3D"1*1(\Files\File\FileName)"
   id=3D"0x614E" type=3D"utf-8"
   minOccurs=3D"1">
  <documentation lang=3D"en" purpose=3D"definition">
    Filename of the attached file.
  </documentation>
 </element>
 <element name=3D"MimeType" path=3D"1*1(\Files\File\MimeType)"
   id=3D"0x464D" type=3D"string"
     minOccurs=3D"1">
  <documentation lang=3D"en" purpose=3D"definition">
    MIME type of the file.
  </documentation>
 </element>
 <element name=3D"ModificationTimestamp"
   path=3D"1*1(\Files\File\ModificationTimestamp)" id=3D"0x4654"
   type=3D"date" minOccurs=3D"1">
  <documentation lang=3D"en" purpose=3D"definition">
    Modification timestamp of the file.
  </documentation>
 </element>
 <element name=3D"Data" path=3D"1*1(\Files\File\Data)" id=3D"0x4664"=20=

   type=3D"binary" minOccurs=3D"1">
  <documentation lang=3D"en" purpose=3D"definition">
    The data of the file.
  </documentation>
 </element>
</EBMLSchema>
=C2=B6

11.1.2.=C2=A0<EBMLSchema> Element

As an XML Document, the EBML Schema MUST use = <EBMLSchema> as the top level element. The = <EBMLSchema> element can contain = <element> sub-elements.=C2=B6

11.1.3.=C2=A0<EBMLSchema> Attributes

Within an EBML Schema the = <EBMLSchema> element uses the following attributes:=C2=B6

11.1.3.1.=C2=A0docType

The docType lists the official name of the = EBML Document Type that is defined by the EBML Schema; for example, = <EBMLSchema docType=3D"matroska">.=C2=B6

The docType attribute is REQUIRED within = the <EBMLSchema> Element.=C2=B6

11.1.3.2.=C2=A0version

The version lists a non-negative integer = that specifies the version of the docType documented by the EBML Schema. = Unlike XML Schemas, an EBML Schema documents all versions of a docType's = definition rather than using separate EBML Schemas for each version of a = docType. EBML Elements may be introduced and deprecated by using the = minver and maxver attributes of <element>.=C2=B6

The version attribute is REQUIRED within = the <EBMLSchema> Element.=C2=B6

11.1.4.=C2=A0<element> Element

Each <element> defines one = EBML Element through the use of several attributes that are defined in = EBML Schema Element Attributes. = EBML Schemas MAY contain additional attributes to extend the semantics = but MUST NOT conflict with the definitions of the = <element> attributes defined within this document.=C2=B6

The <element> nodes = contain a description of the meaning and use of the EBML Element stored = within one or more <documentation> sub-elements, = followed by optional <implementation_note> = sub-elements, followed by zero or one <restriction> = sub-element, followed by optional <extension> = sub-elements. All <element> nodes MUST be = sub-elements of the <EBMLSchema>.=C2=B6

11.1.5.=C2=A0<element> Attributes

Within an EBML Schema the = <element> uses the following attributes to define an = EBML Element:=C2=B6

11.1.5.1.=C2=A0name

The name provides the human-readable name = of the EBML Element. The value of the name MUST be in the form of = characters "A" to "Z", "a" to "z", "0" to "9", "-" and ".".=C2=B6

The name attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.5.2.=C2=A0path

The path defines the allowed storage = locations of the EBML Element within an EBML Document. This path MUST be = defined with the full hierarchy of EBML Elements separated with a = \. The top EBML Element in the path hierarchy being the = first in the value. The syntax of the path attribute is defined using = this Augmented Backus-Naur Form (ABNF) [RFC5234] with the case sensitive update = [RFC7405] = notation:=C2=B6

The path attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

EBMLFullPath             =3D EBMLEltOccurrence "(" EBMLMasterPath =
")"
EBMLMasterPath           =3D [EBMLParentPath] EBMLElementPath
EBMLParentPath           =3D EBMLFixedParent EBMLLastParent
EBMLFixedParent          =3D *(EBMLPathAtom)
EBMLElementPath          =3D EBMLPathAtom / EBMLPathAtomRecursive
EBMLPathAtom             =3D PathDelimiter EBMLAtomName
EBMLPathAtomRecursive    =3D "(1*(" EBMLPathAtom "))"
EBMLLastParent           =3D EBMLPathAtom / EBMLGlobalParent
EBMLGlobalParent         =3D "(" GlobalParentOccurence "\)"
EBMLAtomName             =3D 1*(EBMLNameChar)
EBMLNameChar             =3D ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" / "."
PathDelimiter            =3D "\"
EBMLEltOccurrence        =3D [EBMLMinOccurrence] "*" [EBMLMaxOccurrence]
EBMLMinOccurrence        =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit
EBMLMaxOccurrence        =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit
GlobalParentOccurence    =3D [PathMinOccurrence] "*" [PathMaxOccurrence]
PathMinOccurrence        =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit
PathMaxOccurrence        =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit
=C2=B6

The *, ( and = ) symbols are interpreted as defined in [RFC5234].=C2=B6

The EBMLPathAtom part of the = EBMLElementPath MUST be equal to the name attribute of the EBML = Schema.=C2=B6

The starting PathDelimiter of the path = corresponds to the root of the EBML Document.=C2=B6

The EBMLEltOccurrence part is interpreted = as an ABNF Variable Repetition. The repetition amounts correspond to how = many times the EBML Element can be found in its Parent Element.=C2=B6

The EBMLMinOccurrence represents the = minimum permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its = Parent Element. Each instance of the Parent Element MUST contain at = least this many instances of this EBML Element. If the EBML Element has = an empty EBMLParentPath then EBMLMinOccurrence refers to constraints on = the occurrence of the EBML Element within the EBML Document. If = EBMLMinOccurrence is not present then that EBML Element has an = EBMLMinOccurrence value of 0. The semantic meaning of EBMLMinOccurrence = within an EBML Schema is analogous to the meaning of minOccurs within an = XML Schema. EBML Elements with EBMLMinOccurrence set to "1" that also = have a default value (see default) declared are = not REQUIRED to be stored but are REQUIRED to be interpreted, see Note on the Use of default attributes to define Mandatory EBML = Elements. An EBML Element defined with a EBMLMinOccurrence value = greater than zero is called a Mandatory EBML Element.=C2=B6

The EBMLMaxOccurrence represents the = maximum permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its = Parent Element. Each instance of the Parent Element MUST contain at most = this many instances of this EBML Element. If the EBML Element has an = empty EBMLParentPath then EBMLMaxOccurrence refers to constraints on the = occurrence of the EBML Element within the EBML Document. If = EBMLMaxOccurrence is not present then there is no upper bound for the = permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent = Element resp. within the EBML Document depending on whether the = EBMLParentPath of the EBML Element is empty or not. The semantic meaning = of EBMLMaxOccurrence within an EBML Schema path is analogous to the = meaning of maxOccurs within an XML Schema.=C2=B6

In some cases the EBMLLastParent part of = the path is an EBMLGlobalParent. A path with a EBMLGlobalParent defines = a Global Element. Any path that starts = with the EBMLFixedParent of the Global Element and matches the = occurrences found in the GlobalParentOccurence is a valid path for the = Global Element.=C2=B6

The GlobalParentOccurence part is = interpreted as an ABNF Variable Repetition. The repetition amounts = correspond to the amount of unspecified Parent Element levels there can = be between the EBMLFixedParent and the actual EBMLElementPath.=C2=B6

PathMinOccurrence represents the minimum = number of element path required between the EBMLFixedParent and the = Global Element EBMLElementPath. For example 0 means the EBMLElementPath = can be right after the EBMLFixedParent, 1 means there has to be at least = an element between the EBMLFixedParent and the EBMLElementPath. If = PathMinOccurrence is not present then that EBML Element has an = PathMinOccurrence value of 0.=C2=B6

PathMaxOccurrence represents the maximum = number of element path possible between the EBMLFixedParent and the = Global Element EBMLElementPath. It cannot have the value 0 as it would = be the Global Element can only be found right after the EBMLFixedParent, = in which case it's not a Global Element anymore. If PathMaxOccurrence is = not present then there is no upper bound for the permitted number of = occurrences of element path possible between the EBMLFixedParent and the = Global Element EBMLElementPath.=C2=B6

If the path contains an = EBMLPathAtomRecursive part, the EBML Element can occur within itself = recursively (see the recursive attribute).=C2=B6

As an example, a path of = 1*(\Segment\Info) means the element Info is found inside = the Segment elements at least once and with no maximum iteration. An = element SeekHead with path 0*2(\Segment\SeekHead) may not = be found at all in its Segment parent, once or twice but no more than = that.=C2=B6

11.1.5.3.=C2=A0id

The Element ID encoded as a Variable Size = Integer expressed in hexadecimal notation prefixed by a 0x that is read = and stored in big-endian order. To reduce the risk of false positives = while parsing EBML Streams, the Element IDs of the Root Element and = Top-Level Elements SHOULD be at least 4 octets in length. Element IDs = defined for use at Root Level or directly under the Root Level MAY use = shorter octet lengths to facilitate padding and optimize edits to EBML = Documents; for instance, the Void Element uses an Element ID with a one = octet length to allow its usage in more writing and editing scenarios.=C2=B6

The id attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.5.4.=C2=A0minOccurs

An integer expressing the minimum permitted = number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element. = The minOccurs value MUST be equal to the EBMLMinOccurrence value of the = path.=C2=B6

The minOccurs attribute is OPTIONAL. If the = minOccurs attribute is not present then that EBML Element has a = minOccurs value of 0.=C2=B6

11.1.5.5.=C2=A0maxOccurs

An integer expressing the maximum permitted = number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element. = The maxOccurs value MUST be equal to the EBMLMaxOccurrence value of the = path.=C2=B6

The maxOccurs attribute is OPTIONAL. If the = maxOccurs attribute is not present then that EBML Element has no maximum = occurrence, similar to unbounded in the XML world.=C2=B6

11.1.5.6.=C2=A0range

A numerical range for EBML Elements which = are of numerical types (Unsigned Integer, Signed Integer, Float, and = Date). If specified the value of the EBML Element MUST be within the = defined range. See section of = Expressions of range for rules applied to expression of range = values.=C2=B6

The range attribute is OPTIONAL. If the = range attribute is not present then any value legal for the type = attribute is valid.=C2=B6

11.1.5.6.1.=C2=A0Expression of range

The range attribute MUST only be used = with EBML Elements that are either signed integer, unsigned integer, = float, or date. The expression defines the upper, lower, exact or = excluded value of the EBML Element and optionally an upper boundary = value combined with a lower boundary. The range expression may contain = whitespace (using the ASCII 0x20 character) for readability but = whitespace within a range expression MUST NOT convey meaning.=C2=B6

To set a fixed value for the range, the = value is used as the attribute value. For example 1234 = means the EBML element always has the value 1234. The value can be = prefixed with not to indicate that the fixed value MUST NOT = be used for that Element. For example not 1234 means the = Element can use all values of its type except 1234.=C2=B6

For an exclusive lower boundary the = > sign is used and the >=3D sign is used = for an inclusive lower boundary. For example >3 meaning = the Element value MUST be greater than 3 or >=3D0x1p+0 = meaning the Element value MUST be greater than or equal to the floating = value 1.0, see textual = expression of floats.=C2=B6

For an exclusive upper boundary the = < sign is used and the <=3D sign is used = for an inclusive upper boundary. For example <-2 meaning = the Element value MUST be less than -2 or <=3D10 meaning = the Element value MUST be less than or equal to the 10.=C2=B6

The lower and upper bounds can be = combined into an expression to form a closed boundary. The lower = boundary coming first followed by the upper boundary, separated by a = comma. For example >3,<=3D 20 means the Element value = MUST be greater than 3 and less than or equal to 20.=C2=B6

A special form of lower and upper bounds = using the - separator is possible, meaning the Element = value MUST be greater than or to the first value and MUST be less than = or equal to the second value. For example 1-10 is = equivalent to >=3D1,<=3D10. If the upper boundary is = negative, only the latter form MUST be used.=C2=B6

11.1.5.7.=C2=A0length

A value to express the valid length of the = Element Data as written measured in octets. The length provides a = constraint in addition to the Length value of the definition of the = corresponding EBML Element Type. This length MUST be expressed as either = a non-negative integer or a range (see expression of range) that consists of = only non-negative integers and valid operators.=C2=B6

The length attribute is OPTIONAL. If the = length attribute is not present for that EBML Element then that EBML = Element is only limited in length by the definition of the associated = EBML Element Type.=C2=B6

11.1.5.8.=C2=A0default

If an Element is mandatory (has a = EBMLMinOccurrence value greater than zero) but not written within its = Parent Element or stored as an Empty Element, then the EBML Reader of = the EBML Document MUST semantically interpret the EBML Element as = present with this specified default value for the EBML Element. EBML = Elements that are Master Elements MUST NOT declare a default value. EBML = Elements with a minOccurs value greater than 1 MUST NOT declare a = default value.=C2=B6=

The default attribute is OPTIONAL.=C2=B6

11.1.5.9.=C2=A0type

The type MUST be set to one of the = following values: integer (signed integer), = uinteger (unsigned integer), float, = string, date, utf-8, = master, or binary. The content of each type is = defined within section on EBML Element = Types.=C2=B6

=

The type attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.5.10.=C2=A0unknownsizeallowed

A boolean to express if an EBML Element is = permitted to be Unknown-Sized Element (having all VINT_DATA bits of = Element Data Size set to 1). EBML Elements that are not Master Elements = MUST NOT set unknownsizeallowed to true. An EBML Element that is defined = with an unknownsizeallowed attribute set to 1 MUST also have the = unknownsizeallowed attribute of its Parent Element set to 1.=C2=B6

An EBML Element with the = unknownsizeallowed attribute set to 1 MUST NOT have its recursive = attribute set to 1.=C2=B6

The unknownsizeallowed attribute is = OPTIONAL. If the unknownsizeallowed attribute is not used then that EBML = Element is not allowed to use an unknown Element Data Size.=C2=B6

11.1.5.11.=C2=A0recursive

A boolean to express if an EBML Element is = permitted to be stored recursively. In this case the EBML Element MAY be = stored within another EBML Element that has the same Element ID. Which = itself can be stored in an EBML Element that has the same Element ID, = and so on. EBML Elements that are not Master Elements MUST NOT set = recursive to true.=C2=B6

If the path contains an = EBMLPathAtomRecursive part then the recursive value MUST be true and = false otherwise.=C2=B6

An EBML Element with the recursive = attribute set to 1 MUST NOT have its unknownsizeallowed attribute set to = 1.=C2=B6

The recursive attribute is OPTIONAL. If = the recursive attribute is not present then the EBML Element MUST NOT be = used recursively.=C2=B6

11.1.5.12.=C2=A0recurring

A boolean to express if an EBML Element is = defined as an Identically Recurring Element or not.=C2=B6

The recurring attribute is OPTIONAL. If = the recurring attribute is not present then the EBML Element is not an = Identically Recurring Element.=C2=B6

11.1.5.13.=C2=A0minver

The minver (minimum version) attribute = stores a non-negative integer that represents the first version of the = docType to support the EBML Element.=C2=B6

The minver attribute is OPTIONAL. If the = minver attribute is not present, then the EBML Element has a minimum = version of "1".=C2=B6

11.1.5.14.=C2=A0maxver

The maxver (maximum version) attribute = stores a non-negative integer that represents the last or most recent = version of the docType to support the element. maxver MUST be greater = than or equal to minver.=C2=B6

The maxver attribute is OPTIONAL. If the = maxver attribute is not present then the EBML Element has a maximum = version equal to the value stored in the version attribute of = <EBMLSchema>.=C2=B6

11.1.6.=C2=A0<documentation> Element

The <documentation> = element provides additional information about the EBML Element. Within = the <documentation> element the following XHTML = [W3C.SPSD-xhtml-basic-20180327] elements MAY be = used: <a>, <br>, = <strong>.=C2=B6

11.1.7.=C2=A0<documentation> Attributes

11.1.7.1.=C2=A0lang

A lang attribute which is set to the = [RFC5646] value of = the language of the element's documentation.=C2=B6

The lang attribute is OPTIONAL.=C2=B6

11.1.7.2.=C2=A0purpose

A purpose attribute distinguishes the = meaning of the documentation. Values for the = <documentation> sub-element's purpose attribute MUST = include one of the following: definition, = rationale, usage notes, and = references.=C2=B6

The purpose attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.8.=C2=A0<implementation_note> Element

In some cases within an EBML Document Type, = the attributes of the <element> element are not = sufficient to clearly communicate how the defined EBML Element is = intended to be implemented. For instance, one EBML Element might only be mandatory if another EBML = Element is present, or as another example, the default value of an EBML = Element might derive from a related Element's content. In these cases where the Element's definition is conditional or advanced = implementation notes are needed, one or many = <implementation_note> elements can be used to store = that information. The <implementation_note> refer to a specific = attribute of the parent <element> as expressed by the = note_attribute attribute Section 11.1.9.1.=C2=B6

11.1.9.=C2=A0<implementation_note> = Attributes

11.1.9.1.=C2=A0note_attribute

The note_attribute attribute references = which of the <element>'s attributes that the = implementation_note is in regards to. The note_attribute attribute MUST be set to one of the following values = (corresponding to that attribute of the parent = <element>): minOccurs, = maxOccurs, range, length, = default, minver, or maxver. The <implementation_note> SHALL supersede the parent = <element>'s attribute that is named in the = note_attribute attribute. An <element> SHALL NOT have more than one = <implementation_note> of the same = note_attribute.=C2=B6

The note_attribute attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.10.=C2=A0<restriction> Element

The <restriction> element = provides information about restrictions to the allowable values for the = EBML Element which are listed in <enum> elements.=C2=B6

11.1.11.=C2=A0<enum> Element

The <enum> element stores = a list of values allowed for storage in the EBML Element. The values = MUST match the type of the EBML Element (for example <enum = value=3D"Yes"> cannot be a valid value for a EBML Element that = is defined as an unsigned integer). An <enum> element = MAY also store <documentation> elements to further = describe the <enum>.=C2=B6

11.1.12.=C2=A0<enum> Attributes

11.1.12.1.=C2=A0label

The label provides a concise expression = for human consumption that describes what the value of the = <enum> represents.=C2=B6

The label attribute is OPTIONAL.=C2=B6

11.1.12.2.=C2=A0value

The value represents data that MAY be = stored within the EBML Element.=C2=B6

The value attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.13.=C2=A0<extension> Element

The <extension> element = provides an unconstrained element to contain information about the = associated EBML <element> which is undefined by this = document but MAY be defined by the associated EBML Document Type. The = <extension> element MUST contain a type = attribute and also MAY contain any other attribute or sub-element as = long as the EBML Schema remains as a well-formed XML Document. All = <extension> elements MUST be sub-elements of the = <element>.=C2=B6

11.1.14.=C2=A0<extension> Attributes

11.1.14.1.=C2=A0type

The type attribute should reference a name = or identifier of the project or authority associated with the contents = of the <extension> element.=C2=B6

The type attribute is REQUIRED.=C2=B6

11.1.15.=C2=A0XML Schema for EBML Schema

This following provides an XML Schema = [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] for facilitating = verification of an EBML Schema to the definition described in Section 8.1.=C2=B6

<?xml version=3D"1.0" =
encoding=3D"UTF-8"?>
<xs:schema xmlns=3D"https://ietf.org/cellar/ebml"
  targetNamespace=3D"https://ietf.org/cellar/ebml"
  xmlns:xs=3D"http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
  xmlns:xhtml=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
  elementFormDefault=3D"qualified" version=3D"01">

  <!-- for HTML in comments -->
  <xs:import namespace=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
    schemaLocation=3D"http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/SCHEMA/xhtml11.xsd"/>

  <xs:element name=3D"EBMLSchema" type=3D"EBMLSchemaType"/>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"EBMLSchemaType">
    <xs:sequence>
      <xs:element name=3D"element" type=3D"elementType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
    </xs:sequence>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"docType" use=3D"required"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"version" use=3D"required"/>
  </xs:complexType>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"elementType">
    <xs:sequence>
      <xs:element name=3D"documentation" type=3D"documentationType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
      <xs:element name=3D"implementation_note" type=3D"noteType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
      <xs:element name=3D"restriction" type=3D"restrictionType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"1"/>
      <xs:element name=3D"extension" type=3D"extensionType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
    </xs:sequence>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"name" use=3D"required"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"path" use=3D"required"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"id" use=3D"required"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"minOccurs" default=3D"0"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"maxOccurs" default=3D"1"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"range"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"length"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"default"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"type" use=3D"required"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"unknownsizeallowed"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"recurring"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"minver" default=3D"1"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"maxver"/>
  </xs:complexType>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"restrictionType">
    <xs:sequence>
      <xs:element name=3D"enum" type=3D"enumType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
    </xs:sequence>
  </xs:complexType>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"extensionType">
    <xs:sequence>
      <xs:any processContents=3D"skip"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
    </xs:sequence>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"type" use=3D"required"/>
    <xs:anyAttribute processContents=3D"skip"/>
  </xs:complexType>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"enumType">
    <xs:sequence>
      <xs:element name=3D"documentation" type=3D"documentationType"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
    </xs:sequence>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"label"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"value" use=3D"required"/>
  </xs:complexType>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"documentationType" mixed=3D"true">
    <xs:sequence>
      <xs:element name=3D"a"      type=3D"xhtml:xhtml.a.type"=20
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
      <xs:element name=3D"br"     type=3D"xhtml:xhtml.br.type"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
      <xs:element name=3D"strong" type=3D"xhtml:xhtml.strong.type"
        minOccurs=3D"0" maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/>
    </xs:sequence>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"lang"/>
    <xs:attribute name=3D"purpose" use=3D"required">
      <xs:simpleType>
        <xs:restriction base=3D"xs:string">
          <xs:enumeration value=3D"definition"/>
          <xs:enumeration value=3D"rationale"/>
          <xs:enumeration value=3D"references"/>
          <xs:enumeration value=3D"usage notes"/>
        </xs:restriction>
      </xs:simpleType>
    </xs:attribute>
  </xs:complexType>

  <xs:complexType name=3D"noteType">
    <xs:simpleContent>
      <xs:extension base=3D"xs:string">
        <xs:attribute name=3D"note_attribute" use=3D"required">
          <xs:simpleType>
            <xs:restriction base=3D"xs:string">
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"minOccurs"/>
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"maxOccurs"/>
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"range"/>
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"length"/>
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"default"/>
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"minver"/>
              <xs:enumeration value=3D"maxver"/>
            </xs:restriction>
          </xs:simpleType>
        </xs:attribute>
      </xs:extension>
    </xs:simpleContent>
  </xs:complexType>
</xs:schema>
=C2=B6

11.1.16.=C2=A0Identically Recurring Elements

An Identically Recurring Element is an EBML = Element that MAY occur within its Parent Element more than once but that = each recurrence within that Parent Element MUST be identical both in = storage and semantics. Identically Recurring Elements are permitted to = be stored multiple times within the same Parent Element in order to = increase data resilience and optimize the use of EBML in transmission. = For instance a pertinent Top-Level Element could be periodically resent = within a data stream so that an EBML Reader which starts reading the = stream from the middle could better interpret the contents. Identically = Recurring Elements SHOULD include a CRC-32 Element as a Child Element; = this is especially recommended when EBML is used for long-term storage = or transmission. If a Parent Element contains more than one copy of an = Identically Recurring Element which includes a CRC-32 Element as a Child = Element then the first instance of the Identically Recurring Element = with a valid CRC-32 value should be used for interpretation. If a Parent = Element contains more than one copy of an Identically Recurring Element = which does not contain a CRC-32 Element or if CRC-32 Elements are = present but none are valid then the first instance of the Identically = Recurring Element should be used for interpretation.=C2=B6

11.1.17.=C2=A0Textual expression of floats

When a float value is represented textually = in an EBML Schema, such as within a default or range value, the float = values MUST be expressed as Hexadecimal Floating-Point Constants as = defined in the C11 standard [ISO.9899.2011] (see section 6.4.4.2 on = Floating Constants). The following table provides examples of = expressions of float ranges.=C2=B6

Table = 8
as = decimal as = Hexadecimal Floating-Point Constants
0.0 0x0p+1
0.0-1.0 0x0p+1-0x1p+0
1.0-256.0 0x1p+0-0x1p+8
0.857421875 0x1.b7p-1
-1.0--0.857421875 -0x1p+0--0x1.b7p-1

Within an expression of a float range, as in = an integer range, the - (hyphen) character is the separator between the = minimal and maximum value permitted by the range. Hexadecimal = Floating-Point Constants also use a - (hyphen) when indicating a = negative binary power. Within a float range, when a - (hyphen) is = immediately preceded by a letter p, then the - (hyphen) is a part of the = Hexadecimal Floating-Point Constant which notes negative binary power. = Within a float range, when a - (hyphen) is not immediately preceded by a = letter p, then the - (hyphen) represents the separator between the = minimal and maximum value permitted by the range.=C2=B6

11.1.18.=C2=A0Note on the use of default attributes to = define Mandatory EBML Elements

If a Mandatory EBML Element has a default = value declared by an EBML Schema and the value of the EBML Element is = equal to the declared default value then that EBML Element is not = required to be present within the EBML Document if its Parent Element is = present. In this case, the default value of the Mandatory EBML Element = MUST be read by the EBML Reader although the EBML Element is not present = within its Parent Element.=C2=B6

If a Mandatory EBML Element has no default = value declared by an EBML Schema and its Parent Element is present then = the EBML Element MUST be present as well. If a Mandatory EBML Element = has a default value declared by an EBML Schema and its Parent Element is = present and the value of the EBML Element is NOT equal to the declared = default value then the EBML Element MUST be present.=C2=B6

This table clarifies if a Mandatory EBML = Element MUST be written, according to if the default value is declared, = if the value of the EBML Element is equal to the declared default value, = and if the Parent Element is used.=C2=B6

Table = 9
Is = the default value declared? Is = the value equal to default? Is = the Parent Element present? Then= is storing the EBML Element REQUIRED?
Yes Yes Yes No
Yes Yes No No
Yes No Yes Yes
Yes No No No
No n/a Yes Yes
No n/a No No

11.2.=C2=A0= EBML Header Elements

This document contains definitions of all EBML = Elements of the EBML Header.=C2=B6

11.2.1.=C2=A0EBML Element

name: EBML=C2=B6

path: 1*1(\EBML)=C2=B6

id: 0x1A45DFA3=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

type: Master Element=C2=B6

description: Set the EBML characteristics of = the data to follow. Each EBML Document has to start with this.=C2=B6

11.2.2.=C2=A0EBMLVersion Element

name: EBMLVersion=C2=B6

path: 1*1(\EBML\EBMLVersion)=C2=B6

id 0x4286=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: not 0=C2=B6

default: 1=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The version of EBML = specifications used to create the EBML Document. The version of EBML = defined in this document is 1, so EBMLVersion SHOULD be 1.=C2=B6

11.2.3.=C2=A0EBMLReadVersion Element

name: EBMLReadVersion=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\EBMLReadVersion)=C2=B6

id: 0x42F7=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: 1=C2=B6

default: 1=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The minimum EBML version an EBML = Reader has to support to read this EBML Document. The EBMLReadVersion = Element MUST be less than or equal to EBMLVersion.=C2=B6

11.2.4.=C2=A0EBMLMaxIDLength Element

name: EBMLMaxIDLength=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\EBMLMaxIDLength)=C2=B6

id 0x42F2=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: >=3D4=C2=B6

default: 4=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The EBMLMaxIDLength Element = stores the maximum permitted length in octets of the Element IDs to be = found within the EBML Body. An EBMLMaxIDLength Element value of four is = RECOMMENDED, though larger values are allowed.=C2=B6

11.2.5.=C2=A0EBMLMaxSizeLength Element

name: EBMLMaxSizeLength=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\EBMLMaxSizeLength)=C2=B6

id 0x42F3=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: not 0=C2=B6

default: 8=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The EBMLMaxSizeLength Element = stores the maximum permitted length in octets of the expressions of all = Element Data Sizes to be found within the EBML Body. The = EBMLMaxSizeLength Element documents an upper bound for the = length of all Element Data Size expressions within the EBML = Body and not an upper bound for the value of all Element = Data Size expressions within the EBML Body. EBML Elements that have an = Element Data Size expression which is larger in octets than what is = expressed by EBMLMaxSizeLength Element are invalid.=C2=B6

11.2.6.=C2=A0DocType Element

name: DocType=C2=B6

path: 1*1(\EBML\DocType)=C2=B6

id 0x4282=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

length: >0=C2=B6

type: String=C2=B6

description: A string that describes and = identifies the content of the EBML Body that follows this EBML Header.=C2=B6

11.2.7.=C2=A0DocTypeVersion Element

name: DocTypeVersion=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\DocTypeVersion)=C2=B6

id 0x4287=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: not 0=C2=B6

default: 1=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The version of DocType = interpreter used to create the EBML Document.=C2=B6

11.2.8.=C2=A0DocTypeReadVersion Element

name: DocTypeReadVersion=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\DocTypeReadVersion)=C2=B6

id 0x4285=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: not 0=C2=B6

default: 1=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The minimum DocType version an = EBML Reader has to support to read this EBML Document. The value of the = DocTypeReadVersion Element MUST be less than or equal to the value of = the DocTypeVersion Element.=C2=B6

11.2.9.=C2=A0DocTypeExtension Element

name: DocTypeExtension=C2=B6

path: = 0*(\EBML\DocTypeExtension)=C2=B6

id 0x4281=C2=B6

minOccurs: 0=C2=B6

type: Master Element=C2=B6

description: A DocTypeExtension adds extra = Elements to the main DocType+DocTypeVersion tuple it's attached to. An = EBML Reader MAY know these extra Elements and how to use them. A = DocTypeExtension MAY be used to iterate between experimental Elements = before they are integrated in a regular DocTypeVersion. Reading one = DocTypeExtension version of a DocType+DocTypeVersion tuple doesn't imply = one should be able to read upper versions of this DocTypeExtension.=C2=B6

11.2.10.=C2=A0DocTypeExtensionName Element

name: DocTypeExtensionName=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\DocTypeExtension\Name)=C2=B6

id 0x4283=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

length: >0=C2=B6

type: String=C2=B6

description: The name of the = DocTypeExtension to differentiate it from other DocTypeExtension of the = same DocType+DocTypeVersion tuple. A DocTypeExtensionName value MUST be = unique within the EBML Header.=C2=B6

11.2.11.=C2=A0DocTypeExtensionVersion Element

name: DocTypeExtensionVersion=C2=B6

path: = 1*1(\EBML\DocTypeExtension\Version)=C2=B6

id 0x4284=C2=B6

minOccurs: 1=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

range: not 0=C2=B6

type: Unsigned Integer=C2=B6

description: The version of the = DocTypeExtension. Different DocTypeExtensionVersion values of the same = DocType+DocTypeVersion+DocTypeExtensionName tuple MAY contain completely = different sets of extra Elements. An EBML Reader MAY support multiple = versions of the same DocTypeExtension, only one or none.=C2=B6

11.3.=C2=A0= Global = Elements

EBML allows some special Elements to be found = within more than one parent in an EBML Document or optionally at the = Root Level of an EBML Body. These Elements are called Global Elements. = There are 2 Global Elements that can be found in any EBML Document: the = CRC-32 Element and the Void Element. An EBML Schema MAY add other Global = Elements to the format it defines. These extra elements apply only to = the EBML Body, not the EBML Header.=C2=B6

Global Elements are EBML Elements whose path = have a EBMLGlobalParent as their EBMLLastParent. Because it is the last = Parent part of the path, a Global Element might also have = non-EBMLGlobalParent parts in its path. In this case the Global Element = can only be found within this non-EBMLGlobalParent path, i.e. it's not = fully "global".=C2=B6

The EBMLEltOccurrence of a Global Element is = the number of occurrences the Element can be found in a Parent Element. = But the Global Element can be found in many Parent Elements, allowing = the same number of occurrences in each Parent where this Element is = found.=C2=B6

11.3.1.=C2=A0CRC-32 Element

name: CRC-32=C2=B6

path: *1((1*\)\CRC-32)=C2=B6

id: 0xBF=C2=B6

minOccurs: 0=C2=B6

maxOccurs: 1=C2=B6

length: 4=C2=B6

type: Binary=C2=B6

description: The CRC-32 Element contains a = 32-bit Cyclic Redundancy Check value of all the Element Data of the = Parent Element as stored except for the CRC-32 Element itself. When the = CRC-32 Element is present, the CRC-32 Element MUST be the first ordered = EBML Element within its Parent Element for easier reading. All Top-Level = Elements of an EBML Document that are Master Elements SHOULD include a = CRC-32 Element as a Child Element. The CRC in use is the IEEE-CRC-32 = algorithm as used in the [ISO.3309.1979] standard and in section = 8.1.1.6.2 of [ITU.V42.1994], with initial value of = 0xFFFFFFFF. The CRC value MUST be computed on a little endian bitstream = and MUST use little endian storage.=C2=B6

11.3.2.=C2=A0Void Element

name: Void=C2=B6

path: *((*\)\Void)=C2=B6

id: 0xEC=C2=B6

minOccurs: 0=C2=B6

type: Binary=C2=B6

description: Used to void data or to avoid = unexpected behaviors when using damaged data. The content is discarded. = Also used to reserve space in a sub-element for later use.=C2=B6

12.=C2=A0Considerations for Reading EBML Data

The following scenarios describe events to = consider when reading EBML Documents and the recommended design of an = EBML Reader.=C2=B6

If a Master Element contains a CRC-32 Element = that doesn't validate, then the EBML Reader MAY ignore all contained = data except for Descendant Elements that contain their own valid CRC-32 = Element.=C2=B6

If a Master Element contains more occurrences of = a Child Master Element than permitted according to the maxOccurs and = recurring attributes of the definition of that Element then the = occurrences in addition to maxOccurs MAY be ignored.=C2=B6

If a Master Element contains more occurrences of = a Child Element than permitted according to the maxOccurs attribute of = the definition of that Element then all instances of that Element after = the first maxOccur occurrences from the beginning of its Parent Element = SHOULD be ignored.=C2=B6

13.=C2=A0Terminating Elements

Null Octets, which are octets with all bits set = to zero, MAY follow the value of a String Element or UTF-8 Element to = serve as a terminator. An EBML Writer MAY terminate a String Element or = UTF-8 Element with Null Octets in order to overwrite a stored value with = a new value of lesser length while maintaining the same Element Data = Size (this can prevent the need to rewrite large portions of an EBML = Document); otherwise the use of Null Octets within a String Element or = UTF-8 Element is NOT RECOMMENDED. An EBML Reader MUST consider the value = of the String Element or UTF-8 Element to be terminated upon the first = read Null Octet and MUST ignore any data following the first Null Octet = within that Element. A string value and a copy of that string value = terminated by one or more Null Octets are semantically equal.=C2=B6

The following table shows examples of semantics = and validation for the use of Null Octets. Values to represent Stored = Values and the Semantic Meaning as represented as hexadecimal values.=C2=B6

Table = 10
Stored = Value Semantic = Meaning
0x65 = 0x62 0x6D 0x6C 0x65 = 0x62 0x6D 0x6C
0x65 = 0x62 0x00 0x6C 0x65 = 0x62
0x65 = 0x62 0x00 0x00 0x65 = 0x62
0x65 = 0x62 0x65 = 0x62

14.=C2=A0Guidelines for Updating Elements

An EBML Document can be updated without requiring = that the entire EBML Document be rewritten. These recommendations = describe strategies to change the Element Data of a written EBML Element = with minimal disruption to the rest of the EBML Document.=C2=B6

14.1.=C2=A0= Reducing a Element Data in Size

There are three methods to reduce the size of = Element Data of a written EBML Element.=C2=B6

14.1.1.=C2=A0Adding a Void Element

When an EBML Element is changed to reduce its = total length by more than one octet, an EBML Writer SHOULD fill the = freed space with a Void Element.=C2=B6

14.1.2.=C2=A0Extending the Element Data Size

The same value for Element Data Size MAY be = written in variable lengths, so for minor reductions in octet length the = Element Data Size MAY be written to a longer octet length to fill the = freed space.=C2=B6

=

For example, the first row of the following = table depicts a String Element that stores an Element ID (3 octets), = Element Data Size (1 octet), and Element Data (4 octets). If the Element = Data is changed to reduce the length by one octet and if the current = length of the Element Data Size is less than its maximum permitted = length, then the Element Data Size of that Element MAY be rewritten to = increase its length by one octet. Thus before and after the change the = EBML Element maintains the same length of 8 octets and data around the = Element does not need to be moved.=C2=B6

Table = 11
Status Element ID Element Data Size Element Data
Before= edit 0x3B4040 0x84 0x65626D6C
After = edit 0x3B4040 0x4003 0x6D6B76

This method is RECOMMENDED when the Element = Data is reduced by a single octet; for reductions by two or more octets = it is RECOMMENDED to fill the freed space with a Void Element.=C2=B6

Note that if the Element Data length needs to = be rewritten as shortened by one octet and the Element Data Size could = be rewritten as a shorter VINT then it is RECOMMENDED to rewrite the = Element Data Size as one octet shorter, shorten the Element Data by one = octet, and follow that Element with a Void Element. For example, the = following table depicts a String Element that stores an Element ID (3 = octets), Element Data Size (2 octets, but could be rewritten in one = octet), and Element Data (3 octets). If the Element Data is to be = rewritten to a two octet length, then another octet can be taken from = Element Data Size so that there is enough space to add a two octet Void = Element.=C2=B6

Table = 12
Status Element ID Element Data Size Element Data Void = Element
Before 0x3B4040 0x4003 0x6D6B76
After 0x3B4040 0x82 0x6869 0xEC80

14.1.3.=C2=A0Terminating Element Data

For String Elements and UTF-8 Elements the = length of Element Data MAY be reduced by adding Null Octets to terminate = the Element Data (see the section on = Terminating Elements).=C2=B6

In the following table, a four octets long = Element Data is changed to a three octet long value followed by a Null = Octet; the Element Data Size includes any Null Octets used to terminate = Element Data so remains unchanged.=C2=B6

Table = 13
Status Element ID Element Data Size Element Data
Before= edit 0x3B4040 0x84 0x65626D6C
After = edit 0x3B4040 0x84 0x6D6B7600

Note that this method is NOT RECOMMENDED. For = reductions of one octet, the method for Extending the Element Data Size = SHOULD be used. For reduction by more than one octet, the method for = Adding a Void Element SHOULD be used.=C2=B6

14.2.=C2=A0= Considerations when Updating Elements with Cyclic Redundancy = Check (CRC)

If the Element to be changed is a Descendant = Element of any Master Element that contains a CRC-32 Element (see Section 11.3.1) then the = CRC-32 Element MUST be verified before permitting the change. = Additionally the CRC-32 Element value MUST be subsequently updated to = reflect the changed data.=C2=B6

15.=C2=A0Backward and Forward Compatibility

Elements of an EBML format SHOULD be designed = with backward and forward compatibility in mind.=C2=B6

15.1.=C2=A0= Backward Compatibility

Backward compatibility of new EBML Elements can = be achieved by using default values for mandatory elements. The default = value MUST represent the state that was assumed for previous versions of = the EBML Schema, without this new EBML Element. If such a state doesn't = make sense for previous versions, then the new EBML Element SHOULD NOT = be mandatory.=C2=B6

Non mandatory EBML Elements can be added in a = new EBMLDocTypeVersion. Since they are not mandatory they won't be found = in older versions of the EBMLDocTypeVersion, just as they might not be = found in newer versions. This causes no compatibility issue.=C2=B6

15.2.=C2=A0= Forward Compatibility

EBML Elements MAY be marked as deprecated in a = new EBMLDocTypeVersion using the maxver attribute of the EBML Schema. If = such an Element is found in an EBML Document with newer version of the = EBMLDocTypeVersion it SHOULD be discarded.=C2=B6

16.=C2=A0Security Considerations

EBML itself does not offer any kind of security = and does not provide confidentiality. EBML does not provide any kind of = authorization. EBML only offers marginally useful and effective data = integrity options, such as CRC elements.=C2=B6

Even if the semantic layer offers any kind of = encryption, EBML itself could leak information at both the semantic = layer (as declared via the DocType Element) and within the EBML = structure (the presence of EBML Elements can be derived even with an = unknown semantic layer using a heuristic approach; not without errors, = of course, but with a certain degree of confidence).=C2=B6

An EBML Document that has the following issues = may still be handled by the EBML Reader and the data accepted as such, = depending on how strict the EBML Reader wants to be:=C2=B6

  • Invalid Element IDs that are longer = than the limit stated in the EBMLMaxIDLength Element of the EBML = Header.=C2=B6

  • Invalid Element IDs that are not = encoded in the shortest-possible way.=C2=B6

  • Invalid Element Data Size values = that are longer than the limit stated in the EBMLMaxSizeLength Element = of the EBML Header.=C2=B6

Element IDs that are unknown to the EBML Reader = MAY be accepted as valid EBML IDs in order to skip such elements.=C2=B6

EBML Elements with a string type may contain = extra data after the first 0x00. These data MUST be discarded according = to the Section 13 = rules.=C2=B6

An EBML Reader may discard some or all data if = the following errors are found in the EBML Document:=C2=B6

  • Invalid Element Data Size values = (e.g. extending the length of the EBML Element beyond the scope of the = Parent Element; possibly triggering access-out-of-bounds issues).=C2=B6

  • Very high lengths in order to force = out-of-memory situations resulting in a denial of service, = access-out-of-bounds issues etc.=C2=B6

  • Missing EBML Elements that are = mandatory in a Master Element and have no declared default value, making = the semantic invalid at that Master Element level.=C2=B6

  • Usage of invalid UTF-8 encoding in = EBML Elements of UTF-8 type (e.g. in order to trigger = access-out-of-bounds or buffer overflow issues).=C2=B6

  • Usage of invalid data in EBML = Elements with a date type, triggering bogus date accesses.=C2=B6

Side channel attacks could exploit:=C2=B6

  • The semantic equivalence of the = same string stored in a String Element or UTF-8 Element with and without = zero-bit padding, making comparison at the semantic level invalid.=C2=B6

  • The semantic equivalence of = VINT_DATA within Element Data Size with two different lengths due to = left-padding zero bits, making comparison at the semantic level = invalid.=C2=B6

  • Data contained within a Master = Element which is not itself part of a Child Element can trigger = incorrect parsing behavior in EBML Readers.=C2=B6

  • Extraneous copies of Identically = Recurring Element, making parsing unnecessarily slow to the point of not = being usable.=C2=B6

  • Copies of Identically Recurring = Element within a Parent Element that contain invalid CRC-32 Elements. = EBML Readers not checking the CRC-32 might use the version of the = element with mismatching CRC-32.=C2=B6

  • Use of Void Elements which could = be used to hide content or create bogus resynchronization points seen by = some EBML Reader and not others.=C2=B6

17.=C2=A0IANA = Considerations

17.1.=C2=A0= CELLAR EBML Element ID Registry

This document creates a new IANA Registry = called "CELLAR EBML Element ID Registry".=C2=B6

Element IDs are described in section Element = ID. Element IDs are encoded using the VINT mechanism described in = section Section 4 = can be between one and five octets long. Five octet long Element IDs are = possible only if declared in the header.=C2=B6

This IANA Registry only applies to Elements = that can be contained in the EBML Header, thus including Global Elements. Elements only found in = the EBML Body have their own set of independent Element IDs and are not = part of this IANA Registry.=C2=B6

The VINT Data value of one-octet Element IDs = MUST be between 0x01 and 0x7E. These items are valuable because they are = short, and need to be used for commonly repeated elements. Values from 1 = to 126 are to be allocated according to the "RFC Required" policy = [RFC8126].=C2=B6

The VINT Data value of two-octet Element IDs = MUST be between 0x007F and 0x3FFE. Numbers are to be allocated within = this range according to the "Specification Required" policy [RFC8126].=C2=B6

The numbers 0x3FFF and 0x4000 are RESERVED.=C2=B6

The VINT Data value of three-octet Element IDs = MUST be between 0x4001 and 0x1FFFFE. Numbers may be allocated within = this range according to the "First Come First Served" policy [RFC8126].=C2=B6

The numbers 0x1FFFFF and 0x200000 are = RESERVED.=C2=B6

Four-octet Element IDs are numbers between = 0x101FFFFF and 0x1FFFFFFE. Four-octet Element IDs are somewhat special = in that they are useful for resynchronizing to major structures in the = event of data corruption or loss. As such four-octet Element IDs are = split into two categories. Four-octet Element IDs whose lower three = octets (as encoded) would make printable 7-bit ASCII values (0x20 to = 0x7E, inclusive) MUST be allocated by the "Specification Required" = policy. Sequential allocation of values is not required: specifications = SHOULD include a specific request, and are encouraged to do early = allocations.=C2=B6

To be clear about the above category: = four-octet Element IDs always start with hex 0x10 to 0x1F, and that = octet may be chosen so that the entire number has some desirable = property, such as a specific CRC. The other three octets, when ALL = having values between 0x21 (33, ASCII !) and 0x7E (126, ASCII ~), fall = into this category.=C2=B6

Other four-octet Element IDs may be allocated = by the "First Come First Served" policy.=C2=B6

The numbers 0xFFFFFFF and 0x1000000 are = RESERVED.=C2=B6

Five octet Element IDs (values from 0x10000001 = upwards) are RESERVED according to the "Experimental Use" policy = [RFC8126]: they may = be used by anyone at any time, but there is no coordination.=C2=B6

ID Values found in this document are assigned = as initial values as follows:=C2=B6

=
Table = 14
IDElement = Name Reference
0x1A45DFA3 EBML Described in Section 11.2.1
0x4286 EBMLVersion Described in Section 11.2.2
0x42F7 EBMLReadVersion Described in Section 11.2.3
0x42F2 EBMLMaxIDLength Described in Section 11.2.4
0x42F3 EBMLMaxSizeLength Described in Section 11.2.5
0x4282 DocType Described in Section 11.2.6
0x4287 DocTypeVersion Described in Section 11.2.7
0x4285 DocTypeReadVersion Described in Section 11.2.8
0x4281 DocTypeExtension Described in Section 11.2.9
0x4283 DocTypeExtensionName Described in Section 11.2.10
0x4284 DocTypeExtensionVersion Described in Section 11.2.11
0xBF CRC-32 Described in Section 11.3.1
0xEC Void Described in Section 11.3.2

17.2.=C2=A0= CELLAR EBML DocType Registry

This document creates a new IANA Registry = called "CELLAR EBML DocType Registry".=C2=B6

To register a new DocType in this registry one = needs a DocType name, a Description of the DocType, a Change Controller = (IESG or email of registrant) and an optional Reference to a document = describing the DocType.=C2=B6

DocType values are described in this section. DocTypes are ASCII strings, defined = in the String Element section, which = label the official name of the EBML Document Type. The strings may be = allocated according to the "First Come First Served" policy.=C2=B6

The use of ASCII corresponds to the types and = code already in use, the value is not meant to be visible to the user.=C2=B6

DocType string values of "matroska" and "webm" = are RESERVED to the IETF for future use. These can be assigned via the "IESG Approval" or "RFC Required" policies = [RFC8126].=C2=B6

18.=C2=A0Normative References

[IEEE.754.1985]
Institute of Electrical and Electronics = Engineers, "Standard for Binary = Floating-Point Arithmetic", .
[ISO.3309.1979]
International Organization for = Standardization, "Data communication - = High-level data link control procedures - Frame structure", .
[ISO.9899.2011]
International Organization for = Standardization, "Programming languages = - C", .
[ITU.V42.1994]
International Telecommunications Union, = "Error-correcting Procedures for DCEs Using = Asynchronous-to-Synchronous Conversion", .
[RFC0020]
Cerf, V., "ASCII= format for network interchange", STD = 80, RFC 20, DOI 10.17487/RFC0020, , <https://www.rfc-editor.org/= info/rfc20>.
[RFC2119]
Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement = Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, DOI = 10.17487/RFC2119, , = <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc2119>.
[RFC3339]
Klyne, G. and = C. Newman, "Date and Time on the = Internet: Timestamps", RFC = 3339, DOI 10.17487/RFC3339, = , <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc3339>.
[RFC3629]
Yergeau, F., "UTF-8, a transformation format of ISO 10646", = STD 63, RFC = 3629, DOI 10.17487/RFC3629, = , <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc3629>.
[RFC5234]
Crocker, D., Ed. and P. Overell, "Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: = ABNF", STD 68, RFC 5234, DOI = 10.17487/RFC5234, , = <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc5234>.
[RFC5646]
Phillips, A., Ed. and M. Davis, Ed., "Tags for Identifying Languages", BCP 47, RFC = 5646, DOI 10.17487/RFC5646, = , <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc5646>.
[RFC7405]
Kyzivat, P., "Case-Sensitive String Support in ABNF", RFC 7405, DOI = 10.17487/RFC7405, , <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc7405>.
[RFC8126]
Cotton, M., = Leiba, B., and T. Narten, "Guidelines for Writing an IANA Considerations = Section in RFCs", BCP 26, RFC 8126, DOI = 10.17487/RFC8126, , = <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc8126>.
[RFC8174]
Leiba, B., "Ambiguity of Uppercase vs Lowercase in RFC 2119 Key = Words", BCP 14, RFC 8174, DOI = 10.17487/RFC8174, , = <https://www.rfc-editor.or= g/info/rfc8174>.
[W3C.REC-xml-20081126]
Bray, T., = Paoli, J., Sperberg-McQueen, = M., Maler, E., and F. Yergeau, "Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (Fifth = Edition)", World Wide Web Consortium = Recommendation REC-xml-20081126, , <http://www.w3.org/TR/2= 008/REC-xml-20081126>.
[W3C.SPSD-xhtml-basic-20180327]
McCarron, S., "XHTML(tm) Basic 1.1 - Second Edition", .

19.=C2=A0Informative References

[W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028]
Fallside, D. = and P. Walmsley, "XML Schema Part 0: = Primer Second Edition", World Wide Web = Consortium Recommendation REC-xmlschema-0-20041028, , <http://www.w3.= org/TR/2004/REC-xmlschema-0-20041028>.

Authors' Addresses

Steve Lhomme
Email: slhomme@matroska.org
Dave Rice
Email: dave@dericed.com
Moritz Bunkus
Email: moritz@bunkus.org=
--Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii --Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name="draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cellar S. Lhomme Internet-Draft D. Rice Intended status: Standards Track M. Bunkus Expires: 23 April 2020 21 October 2019 Extensible Binary Meta Language draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 Abstract This document defines the Extensible Binary Meta Language (EBML) format as a generalized file format for any type of data in a hierarchical form. EBML is designed as a binary equivalent to XML and uses a storage-efficient approach to build nested Elements with identifiers, lengths, and values. Similar to how an XML Schema defines the structure and semantics of an XML Document, this document defines how EBML Schemas are created to convey the semantics of an EBML Document. Status of This Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- Drafts is at https://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." This Internet-Draft will expire on 23 April 2020. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2019 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (https://trustee.ietf.org/ license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 1] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2. Notation and Conventions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3. Structure . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4. Variable Size Integer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4.1. VINT_WIDTH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4.2. VINT_MARKER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4.3. VINT_DATA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 4.4. VINT Examples . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5. Element ID . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 6. Element Data Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.1. Data Size Format . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.2. Unknown Data Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.3. Data Size Values . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 7. EBML Element Types . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 7.1. Signed Integer Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 7.2. Unsigned Integer Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 7.3. Float Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 7.4. String Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 7.5. UTF-8 Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 7.6. Date Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 7.7. Master Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 7.8. Binary Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 8. EBML Document . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 8.1. EBML Header . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 8.2. EBML Body . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 9. EBML Stream . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 10. EBML Versioning . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 10.1. EBML Header Version . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 10.2. EBML Document Version . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 11. Elements semantic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 11.1. EBML Schema . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 11.1.1. EBML Schema Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 11.1.2. Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 11.1.3. Attributes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 11.1.4. Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 11.1.5. Attributes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 11.1.6. Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 11.1.7. Attributes . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 11.1.8. Element . . . . . . . . . . . 29 11.1.9. Attributes . . . . . . . . . . 29 11.1.10. Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 11.1.11. Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 11.1.12. Attributes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 2] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.13. Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 11.1.14. Attributes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 11.1.15. XML Schema for EBML Schema . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 11.1.16. Identically Recurring Elements . . . . . . . . . . . 33 11.1.17. Textual expression of floats . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 11.1.18. Note on the use of default attributes to define Mandatory EBML Elements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 11.2. EBML Header Elements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 11.2.1. EBML Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 11.2.2. EBMLVersion Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 11.2.3. EBMLReadVersion Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 11.2.4. EBMLMaxIDLength Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 11.2.5. EBMLMaxSizeLength Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 11.2.6. DocType Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 11.2.7. DocTypeVersion Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 11.2.8. DocTypeReadVersion Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 11.2.9. DocTypeExtension Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 11.2.10. DocTypeExtensionName Element . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 11.2.11. DocTypeExtensionVersion Element . . . . . . . . . . 40 11.3. Global Elements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 11.3.1. CRC-32 Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 11.3.2. Void Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 12. Considerations for Reading EBML Data . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 13. Terminating Elements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 14. Guidelines for Updating Elements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 14.1. Reducing a Element Data in Size . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 14.1.1. Adding a Void Element . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 14.1.2. Extending the Element Data Size . . . . . . . . . . 43 14.1.3. Terminating Element Data . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 14.2. Considerations when Updating Elements with Cyclic Redundancy Check (CRC) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 15. Backward and Forward Compatibility . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 15.1. Backward Compatibility . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 15.2. Forward Compatibility . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 16. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 17. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 17.1. CELLAR EBML Element ID Registry . . . . . . . . . . . . 48 17.2. CELLAR EBML DocType Registry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 18. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 19. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 1. Introduction EBML, short for Extensible Binary Meta Language, specifies a binary and octet (byte) aligned format inspired by the principle of XML (a framework for structuring data). Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 3] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 The goal of this document is to define a generic, binary, space- efficient format that can be used to define more complex formats using an EBML Schema. EBML is used by the multimedia container Matroska (https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/). The applicability of EBML for other use cases is beyond the scope of this document. The definition of the EBML format recognizes the idea behind HTML and XML as a good one: separate structure and semantics allowing the same structural layer to be used with multiple, possibly widely differing semantic layers. Except for the EBML Header and a few Global Elements this specification does not define particular EBML format semantics; however this specification is intended to define how other EBML-based formats can be defined, such as the audio-video container formats Matroska and WebM. EBML uses a simple approach of building Elements upon three pieces of data (tag, length, and value) as this approach is well known, easy to parse, and allows selective data parsing. The EBML structure additionally allows for hierarchical arrangement to support complex structural formats in an efficient manner. A typical EBML file has the following structure: EBML Header (master) + DocType (string) + DocTypeVersion (unsigned integer) EBML Body Root (master) + ElementA (utf-8) + Parent (master) + ElementB (integer) + Parent (master) + ElementB (integer) 2. Notation and Conventions The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in all capitals, as shown here. This document defines specific terms in order to define the format and application of "EBML". Specific terms are defined below: "EBML": Extensible Binary Meta Language Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 4] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 "EBML Document Type": A name provided by an "EBML Schema" to designate a particular implementation of "EBML" for a data format (e.g.: matroska and webm). "EBML Schema": A standardized definition for the structure of an "EBML Document Type". "EBML Document": A datastream comprised of only two components, an "EBML Header" and an "EBML Body". "EBML Reader": A data parser that interprets the semantics of an "EBML Document" and creates a way for programs to use "EBML". "EBML Stream": A file that consists of one or more "EBML Documents" that are concatenated together. "EBML Header": A declaration that provides processing instructions and identification of the "EBML Body". The "EBML Header" is analogous to an XML Declaration [W3C.REC-xml-20081126] (see section 2.8 on Prolog and Document Type Declaration). "EBML Body": All data of an "EBML Document" following the "EBML Header". "Variable Size Integer": A compact variable-length binary value which defines its own length. "VINT": Also known as "Variable Size Integer". "EBML Element": A foundation block of data that contains three parts: an "Element ID", an "Element Data Size", and "Element Data". "Element ID": The "Element ID" is a binary value, encoded as a "Variable Size Integer", used to uniquely identify a defined "EBML Element" within a specific "EBML Schema". "EBML Class": A representation of the octet length of an "Element ID". "Element Data Size": An expression, encoded as a "Variable Size Integer", of the length in octets of "Element Data". "VINTMAX": The maximum possible value that can be stored as "Element Data Size". "Unknown-Sized Element": An "Element" with an unknown "Element Data Size". Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 5] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 "Element Data": The value(s) of the "EBML Element" which is identified by its "Element ID" and "Element Data Size". The form of the "Element Data" is defined by this document and the corresponding "EBML Schema" of the Element's "EBML Document Type". "Root Level": The starting level in the hierarchy of an "EBML Document". "Root Element": A mandatory, non-repeating "EBML Element" which occurs at the top level of the path hierarchy within an "EBML Body" and contains all other "EBML Elements" of the "EBML Body", excepting optional "Void Elements". "Top-Level Element": An "EBML Element" defined to only occur as a "Child Element" of the "Root Element". "Master Element": The "Master Element" contains zero, one, or many other "EBML Elements". "Child Element": A "Child Element" is a relative term to describe the "EBML Elements" immediately contained within a "Master Element". "Parent Element": A relative term to describe the "Master Element" which contains a specified element. For any specified "EBML Element" that is not at "Root Level", the "Parent Element" refers to the "Master Element" in which that "EBML Element" is contained. "Descendant Element": A relative term to describe any "EBML Elements" contained within a "Master Element", including any of the "Child Elements" of its "Child Elements", and so on. "Void Element": A "Void Element" is an "Element" used to overwrite data or reserve space within a "Master Element" for later use. "Element Name": The human-readable name of the "EBML Element". "Element Path": The hierarchy of "Parent Element" where the "EBML Element" is expected to be found in the "EBML Body". "Empty Element": An "EBML Element" that has an "Element Data Size" with all "VINT_DATA" bits set to zero, which indicates that the "Element Data" of the "Element" is zero octets in length. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 6] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 3. Structure EBML uses a system of Elements to compose an EBML Document. EBML Elements incorporate three parts: an Element ID, an Element Data Size, and Element Data. The Element Data, which is described by the Element ID, includes either binary data, one or more other EBML Elements, or both. 4. Variable Size Integer The Element ID and Element Data Size are both encoded as a Variable Size Integer. The Variable Size Integer is composed of a VINT_WIDTH, VINT_MARKER, and VINT_DATA, in that order. Variable Size Integers MUST left-pad the VINT_DATA value with zero bits so that the whole Variable Size Integer is octet-aligned. Variable Size Integer will be referred to as VINT for shorthand. 4.1. VINT_WIDTH Each Variable Size Integer begins with a VINT_WIDTH which consists of zero or many zero-value bits. The count of consecutive zero-values of the VINT_WIDTH plus one equals the length in octets of the Variable Size Integer. For example, a Variable Size Integer that starts with a VINT_WIDTH which contains zero consecutive zero-value bits is one octet in length and a Variable Size Integer that starts with one consecutive zero-value bit is two octets in length. The VINT_WIDTH MUST only contain zero-value bits or be empty. Within the EBML Header the VINT_WIDTH of a VINT MUST NOT exceed three bits in length (meaning that the Variable Size Integer MUST NOT exceed four octets in length) except if said VINT is used to express the Element Data Size of an EBML Element with Element Name EBML and Element ID "0x1A45DFA3" (see the definition of the EBML Element (#ebml-element)) in which case the VINT_WIDTH MUST NOT exceed seven bits in length. Within the EBML Body, when a VINT is used to express an Element ID, the maximum length allowed for the VINT_WIDTH is one less than the value set in the EBMLMaxIDLength Element. Within the EBML Body, when a VINT is used to express an Element Data Size, the maximum length allowed for the VINT_WIDTH is one less than the value set in the EBMLMaxSizeLength Element. 4.2. VINT_MARKER The VINT_MARKER serves as a separator between the VINT_WIDTH and VINT_DATA. Each Variable Size Integer MUST contain exactly one VINT_MARKER. The VINT_MARKER is one bit in length and contain a bit with a value of one. The first bit with a value of one within the Variable Size Integer is the VINT_MARKER. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 7] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 4.3. VINT_DATA The VINT_DATA portion of the Variable Size Integer includes all data that follows (but not including) the VINT_MARKER until end of the Variable Size Integer whose length is derived from the VINT_WIDTH. The bits required for the VINT_WIDTH and the VINT_MARKER use one out of every eight bits of the total length of the Variable Size Integer. Thus a Variable Size Integer of 1 octet length supplies 7 bits for VINT_DATA, a 2 octet length supplies 14 bits for VINT_DATA, and a 3 octet length supplies 21 bits for VINT_DATA. If the number of bits required for VINT_DATA are less than the bit size of VINT_DATA, then VINT_DATA MUST be zero-padded to the left to a size that fits. The VINT_DATA value MUST be expressed as a big-endian unsigned integer. 4.4. VINT Examples This table shows examples of Variable Size Integers with lengths from 1 to 5 octets. The Usable Bits column refers to the number of bits that can be used in the VINT_DATA. The Representation column depicts a binary expression of Variable Size Integers where VINT_WIDTH is depicted by "0", the VINT_MARKER as "1", and the VINT_DATA as "x". +--------------+-------------+-------------------------------+ | Octet Length | Usable Bits | Representation | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | 1 | 7 | 1xxx xxxx | +--------------+-------------+-------------------------------+ | 2 | 14 | 01xx xxxx xxxx xxxx | +--------------+-------------+-------------------------------+ | 3 | 21 | 001x xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx | +--------------+-------------+-------------------------------+ | 4 | 28 | 0001 xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx | | | | xxxx xxxx | +--------------+-------------+-------------------------------+ | 5 | 35 | 0000 1xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx | | | | xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx | +--------------+-------------+-------------------------------+ Table 1 Data encoded as a Variable Size Integer may be rendered at octet lengths larger than needed to store the data in order to facilitate overwriting it at a later date, e.g. when its final size isn't known in advance. In this table a binary value of 0b10 is shown encoded as different Variable Size Integers with lengths from one octet to four octets. All four encoded examples have identical semantic meaning though the VINT_WIDTH and the padding of the VINT_DATA vary. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 8] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 +--------------+--------------+-----------------------+ | Binary Value | Octet Length | As Represented in | | | | Variable Size Integer | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | 10 | 1 | 1000 0010 | +--------------+--------------+-----------------------+ | 10 | 2 | 0100 0000 0000 0010 | +--------------+--------------+-----------------------+ | 10 | 3 | 0010 0000 0000 0000 | | | | 0000 0010 | +--------------+--------------+-----------------------+ | 10 | 4 | 0001 0000 0000 0000 | | | | 0000 0000 0000 0010 | +--------------+--------------+-----------------------+ Table 2 5. Element ID The Element ID is encoded as a Variable Size Integer. By default, Element IDs are encoded in lengths from one octet to four octets, although Element IDs of greater lengths MAY be used if the EBMLMaxIDLength Element of the EBML Header is set to a value greater than four (see the section on the EBMLMaxIDLength Element (#ebmlmaxidlength-element)). The VINT_DATA component of the Element ID MUST NOT be either defined or written as either all zero values or all one values. Any Element ID with the VINT_DATA component set as all zero values or all one values MUST be ignored. The VINT_DATA component of the Element ID MUST be encoded at the shortest valid length. For example, an Element ID with binary encoding of "1011 1111" is valid, whereas an Element ID with binary encoding of "0100 0000 0011 1111" stores a semantically equal VINT_DATA but is invalid because a shorter VINT encoding is possible. Additionally, an Element ID with binary encoding of "1111 1111" is invalid since the VINT_DATA section is set to all one values, whereas an Element ID with binary encoding of "0100 0000 0111 1111" stores a semantically equal VINT_DATA and is the shortest possible VINT encoding. The following table details these specific examples further: Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 9] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | VINT_WIDTH | VINT_MARKER | VINT_DATA | Element ID Status | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | | 1 | 0000000 | Invalid: VINT_DATA | | | | | MUST NOT be set to | | | | | all 0 | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | 0 | 1 | 00000000000000 | Invalid: VINT_DATA | | | | | MUST NOT be set to | | | | | all 0 | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | | 1 | 0000001 | Valid | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | 0 | 1 | 00000000000001 | Invalid: A shorter | | | | | VINT_DATA encoding | | | | | is available. | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | | 1 | 0111111 | Valid | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | 0 | 1 | 00000000111111 | Invalid: A shorter | | | | | VINT_DATA encoding | | | | | is available. | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | | 1 | 1111111 | Invalid: VINT_DATA | | | | | MUST NOT be set to | | | | | all 1 | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ | 0 | 1 | 00000001111111 | Valid | +------------+-------------+----------------+--------------------+ Table 3 The octet length of an Element ID determines its EBML Class. +------------+--------+-------------------------+---------------+ | EBML Class | Length | Possible IDs | Number of IDs | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | Class A | 1 | 0x81 - 0xFE | 126 | +------------+--------+-------------------------+---------------+ | Class B | 2 | 0x407F - 0x7FFE | 16,256 | +------------+--------+-------------------------+---------------+ | Class C | 3 | 0x203FFF - 0x3FFFFE | 2,080,768 | +------------+--------+-------------------------+---------------+ | Class D | 4 | 0x101FFFFF - 0x1FFFFFFE | 268,338,304 | +------------+--------+-------------------------+---------------+ Table 4 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 10] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 6. Element Data Size 6.1. Data Size Format The Element Data Size expresses the length in octets of Element Data. The Element Data Size itself is encoded as a Variable Size Integer. By default, Element Data Sizes can be encoded in lengths from one octet to eight octets, although Element Data Sizes of greater lengths MAY be used if the octet length of the longest Element Data Size of the EBML Document is declared in the EBMLMaxSizeLength Element of the EBML Header (see the section on the EBMLMaxSizeLength Element (#ebmlmaxsizelength-element)). Unlike the VINT_DATA of the Element ID, the VINT_DATA component of the Element Data Size is not mandated to be encoded at the shortest valid length. For example, an Element Data Size with binary encoding of 1011 1111 or a binary encoding of 0100 0000 0011 1111 are both valid Element Data Sizes and both store a semantically equal value (both 0b00000000111111 and 0b0111111, the VINT_DATA sections of the examples, represent the integer 63). Although an Element ID with all VINT_DATA bits set to zero is invalid, an Element Data Size with all VINT_DATA bits set to zero is allowed for EBML Element Types which do not mandate a non-zero length (see the section on EBML Element Types (#ebml-element-types)). An Element Data Size with all VINT_DATA bits set to zero indicates that the Element Data is zero octets in length. Such an EBML Element is referred to as an Empty Element. If an Empty Element has a default value declared then the EBML Reader MUST interpret the value of the Empty Element as the default value. If an Empty Element has no default value declared then the EBML Reader MUST use the value of the Empty Element for the corresponding EBML Element Type of the Element ID, 0 for numbers and an empty string for strings. 6.2. Unknown Data Size An Element Data Size with all VINT_DATA bits set to one is reserved as an indicator that the size of the EBML Element is unknown. The only reserved value for the VINT_DATA of Element Data Size is all bits set to one. An EBML Element with an unknown Element Data Size is referred to as an Unknown-Sized Element. A Master Element MAY be an Unknown-Sized Element; however an EBML Element that is not a Master Element MUST NOT be an Unknown-Sized Element. Master Elements MUST NOT use an unknown size unless the unknownsizeallowed attribute of their EBML Schema is set to true (see the section on the unknownsizeallowed attribute (#unknownsizeallowed)). The use of Unknown-Sized Elements allows for an EBML Element to be written and read before the size of the EBML Element is known. Unknown-Sized Element MUST NOT be used or defined unnecessarily; Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 11] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 however if the Element Data Size is not known before the Element Data is written, such as in some cases of data streaming, then Unknown- Sized Elements MAY be used. The end of an Unknown-Sized Element is determined by whichever comes first: * Any EBML Element that is a valid Parent Element of the Unknown- Sized Element according to the EBML Schema, Global Elements (#global-elements) excluded. * Any valid EBML Element according to the EBML Schema, Global Elements (#global-elements) excluded, that is not a Descendant Element of the Unknown-Sized Element but share a common direct parent, such as a Top-Level Element. * Any EBML Element that is a valid Root Element according to the EBML Schema, Global Elements (#global-elements) excluded. * The end of the Parent Element with a known size has been reached. * The end of the EBML Document, either when reaching the end of the file or because a new EBML Header started. Consider an Unknown-Sized Element which EBML path is "\root\level1\level2\elt". When reading a new Element ID, assuming the EBML Path of that new Element is valid, here are some possible and impossible ways that this new Element is ending "elt": Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 12] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | EBML Path of new element | Status | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | "\root\level1\level2" | Ends the Unknown-Sized | | | Element, as it is a new | | | Parent Element | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root\level1" | Ends the Unknown-Sized | | | Element, as it is a new | | | Parent Element | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root" | Ends the Unknown-Sized | | | Element, as it is a new | | | Root Element | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root2" | Ends the Unknown-Sized | | | Element, as it is a new | | | Root Element | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root\level1\level2\other" | Ends the Unknown-Sized | | | Element, as they share the | | | same parent | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root\level1\level2\elt" | Ends the Unknown-Sized | | | Element, as they share the | | | same parent | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root\level1\level2\elt\inside" | Doesn't end the Unknown- | | | Sized Element, it's a | | | child of "elt" | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root\level1\level2\elt\" | Global Element is valid, | | | it's a child of "elt" | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ | "\root\level1\level2\" | Global Element cannot be | | | assumed to have this path, | | | while parsing "elt" it can | | | only be a child of "elt" | +------------------------------------+----------------------------+ Table 5 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 13] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 6.3. Data Size Values For Element Data Sizes encoded at octet lengths from one to eight, this table depicts the range of possible values that can be encoded as an Element Data Size. An Element Data Size with an octet length of 8 is able to express a size of 2^56-2 or 72,057,594,037,927,934 octets (or about 72 petabytes). The maximum possible value that can be stored as Element Data Size is referred to as VINTMAX. +--------------+----------------------+ | Octet Length | Possible Value Range | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | 1 | 0 to 2^(7-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 2 | 0 to 2^(14-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 3 | 0 to 2^(21-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 4 | 0 to 2^(28-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 5 | 0 to 2^(35-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 6 | 0 to 2^(42-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 7 | 0 to 2^(49-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ | 8 | 0 to 2^(56-2) | +--------------+----------------------+ Table 6 If the length of Element Data equals 2^(n*7)-1 then the octet length of the Element Data Size MUST be at least n+1. This rule prevents an Element Data Size from being expressed as the unknown size value. The following table clarifies this rule by showing a valid and invalid expression of an Element Data Size with a VINT_DATA of 127 (which is equal to 2^(1*7)-1) and 16,383 (which is equal to 2^((2*7)- 1).) Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 14] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 +------------+-------------+-----------------------+--------------+ | VINT_WIDTH | VINT_MARKER | VINT_DATA | Element Data | | | | | Size Status | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | | 1 | 1111111 | Reserved | | | | | (meaning | | | | | Unknown) | +------------+-------------+-----------------------+--------------+ | 0 | 1 | 00000001111111 | Valid | | | | | (meaning 127 | | | | | octets) | +------------+-------------+-----------------------+--------------+ | 00 | 1 | 000000000000001111111 | Valid | | | | | (meaning 127 | | | | | octets) | +------------+-------------+-----------------------+--------------+ | 0 | 1 | 11111111111111 | Reserved | | | | | (meaning | | | | | Unknown) | +------------+-------------+-----------------------+--------------+ | 00 | 1 | 000000011111111111111 | Valid | | | | | (16,383 | | | | | octets) | +------------+-------------+-----------------------+--------------+ Table 7 7. EBML Element Types EBML Elements are defined by an EBML Schema (see Section 11.1) which MUST declare one of the following EBML Element Types for each EBML Element. An EBML Element Type defines a concept of storing data within an EBML Element that describes such characteristics as length, endianness, and definition. EBML Elements which are defined as a Signed Integer Element, Unsigned Integer Element, Float Element, or Date Element use big endian storage. 7.1. Signed Integer Element A Signed Integer Element MUST declare a length from zero to eight octets. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then a Signed Integer Element with a zero-octet length represents an integer value of zero. A Signed Integer Element stores an integer (meaning that it can be written without a fractional component) which could be negative, Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 15] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 positive, or zero. Signed Integers are stored with two's complement notation with the leftmost bit being the sign bit. Because EBML limits Signed Integers to 8 octets in length a Signed Integer Element stores a number from -9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to +9,223,372,036,854,775,807. 7.2. Unsigned Integer Element An Unsigned Integer Element MUST declare a length from zero to eight octets. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then an Unsigned Integer Element with a zero-octet length represents an integer value of zero. An Unsigned Integer Element stores an integer (meaning that it can be written without a fractional component) which could be positive or zero. Because EBML limits Unsigned Integers to 8 octets in length an Unsigned Integer Element stores a number from 0 to 18,446,744,073,709,551,615. 7.3. Float Element A Float Element MUST declare a length of either zero octet (0 bit), four octets (32 bit) or eight octets (64 bit). If the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then a Float Element with a zero-octet length represents a numerical value of zero. A Float Element stores a floating-point number as defined in [IEEE.754.1985]. 7.4. String Element A String Element MUST declare a length in octets from zero to VINTMAX. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then a String Element with a zero-octet length represents an empty string. A String Element MUST either be empty (zero-length) or contain printable ASCII characters [RFC0020] in the range of 0x20 to 0x7E, with an exception made for termination (see the section on the Terminating Elements (#terminating-elements)). 7.5. UTF-8 Element A UTF-8 Element MUST declare a length in octets from zero to VINTMAX. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then a UTF-8 Element with a zero-octet length represents an empty string. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 16] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 A UTF-8 Element contains only a valid Unicode string as defined in [RFC3629], with an exception made for termination (see the section on the Terminating Elements (#terminating-elements)). 7.6. Date Element A Date Element MUST declare a length of either zero octets or eight octets. If the EBML Element is not defined to have a default value, then a Date Element with a zero-octet length represents a timestamp of 2001-01-01T00:00:00.000000000 UTC [RFC3339]. The Date Element stores an integer in the same format as the Signed Integer Element that expresses a point in time referenced in nanoseconds from the precise beginning of the third millennium of the Gregorian Calendar in Coordinated Universal Time (also known as 2001-01-01T00:00:00.000000000 UTC). This provides a possible expression of time from 1708-09-11T00:12:44.854775808 UTC to 2293-04-11T11:47:16.854775807 UTC. 7.7. Master Element A Master Element MUST declare a length in octets from zero to VINTMAX. The Master Element MAY also use an unknown length. See the section on Element Data Size (#element-data-size) for rules that apply to elements of unknown length. The Master Element contains zero, one, or many other elements. EBML Elements contained within a Master Element MUST have the EBMLParentPath of their Element Path equal to the EBMLMasterPath of the Master Element Element Path (see the section on the EBML Path (#path)). Element Data stored within Master Elements SHOULD only consist of EBML Elements and SHOULD NOT contain any data that is not part of an EBML Element. The EBML Schema identifies what Element IDs are valid within the Master Elements for that version of the EBML Document Type. Any data contained within a Master Element that is not part of a Child Element MUST be ignored. 7.8. Binary Element A Binary Element MUST declare a length in octets from zero to VINTMAX. The contents of a Binary Element should not be interpreted by the EBML Reader. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 17] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 8. EBML Document An EBML Document is comprised of only two components, an EBML Header and an EBML Body. An EBML Document MUST start with an EBML Header that declares significant characteristics of the entire EBML Body. An EBML Document consists of EBML Elements and MUST NOT contain any data that is not part of an EBML Element. 8.1. EBML Header The EBML Header is a declaration that provides processing instructions and identification of the EBML Body. The EBML Header of an EBML Document is analogous to the XML Declaration of an XML Document. The EBML Header documents the EBML Schema (also known as the EBML DocType) that is used to semantically interpret the structure and meaning of the EBML Document. Additionally the EBML Header documents the versions of both EBML and the EBML Schema that were used to write the EBML Document and the versions required to read the EBML Document. The EBML Header MUST contain a single Master Element with an Element Name of EBML and Element ID of 0x1A45DFA3 (see the definition of the EBML Element (#ebml-element)) and any number of additional EBML Elements within it. The EBML Header of an EBML Document that uses an EBMLVersion of 1 MUST only contain EBML Elements that are defined as part of this document. 8.2. EBML Body All data of an EBML Document following the EBML Header is the EBML Body. The end of the EBML Body, as well as the end of the EBML Document that contains the EBML Body, is reached at whichever comes first: the beginning of a new EBML Header at the Root Level or the end of the file. The EBML Body MUST NOT contain any data that is not part of an EBML Element. This document defines precisely which EBML Elements are to be used within the EBML Header, but does not name or define which EBML Elements are to be used within the EBML Body. The definition of which EBML Elements are to be used within the EBML Body is defined by an EBML Schema. 9. EBML Stream An EBML Stream is a file that consists of one or more EBML Documents that are concatenated together. An occurrence of a EBML Header at the Root Level marks the beginning of an EBML Document. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 18] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 10. EBML Versioning An EBML Document handles 2 different versions: the version of the EBML Header and the version of the EBML Body. Both versions are meant to be backward compatible. 10.1. EBML Header Version The version of the EBML Header is found in EBMLVersion. An EBML parser can read an EBML Header if it can read either the EBMLVersion version or a version equal or higher than the one found in EBMLReadVersion. 10.2. EBML Document Version The version of the EBML Body is found in EBMLDocTypeVersion. A parser for the particular DocType format can read the EBML Document if it can read either the EBMLDocTypeVersion version of that format or a version equal or higher than the one found in EBMLDocTypeReadVersion. 11. Elements semantic 11.1. EBML Schema An EBML Schema is a well-formed XML Document [W3C.REC-xml-20081126] that defines the properties, arrangement, and usage of EBML Elements that compose a specific EBML Document Type. The relationship of an EBML Schema to an EBML Document is analogous to the relationship of an XML Schema [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] to an XML Document [W3C.REC-xml-20081126]. An EBML Schema MUST be clearly associated with one or more EBML Document Types. An EBML Document Type is identified by a string stored within the EBML Header in the DocType Element; for example matroska or webm (see the definition of the DocType Element (#doctype-element)). The DocType value for an EBML Document Type MUST be unique and persistent. An EBML Schema MUST declare exactly one EBML Element at Root Level (referred to as the Root Element) that occurs exactly once within an EBML Document. The Void Element MAY also occur at Root Level but is not a Root Element (see the definition of the Void Element (#void- element)). The EBML Schema MUST document all Elements of the EBML Body. The EBML Schema does not document Global Elements (#global-elements) that are defined by this document (namely the Void Element and the CRC-32 Element). Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 19] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 The EBML Schema MUST NOT use the Element ID "0x1A45DFA3" which is reserved for the EBML Header for resynchronization purpose. An EBML Schema MAY constrain the use of EBML Header Elements (see EBML Header Elements (#ebml-header-elements)) by adding or constraining that Element's "range" attribute. For example, an EBML Schema MAY constrain the EBMLMaxSizeLength to a maximum value of "8" or MAY constrain the EBMLVersion to only support a value of "1". If an EBML Schema adopts the EBML Header Element as-is, then it is not required to document that Element within the EBML Schema. If an EBML Schema constrains the range of an EBML Header Element, then that Element MUST be documented within an "" node of the EBML Schema. This document provides an example of an EBML Schema, see EBML Schema Example (#ebml-schema-example). 11.1.1. EBML Schema Example Container of data = and attributes representing one or many files. An attached file. Filename of the attached file. MIME type of the file. Modification timestamp of the file. The data of the file. 11.1.2. Element As an XML Document, the EBML Schema MUST use "" as the top level element. The "" element can contain "" sub-elements. 11.1.3. Attributes Within an EBML Schema the "" element uses the following attributes: 11.1.3.1. docType The docType lists the official name of the EBML Document Type that is defined by the EBML Schema; for example, "". The docType attribute is REQUIRED within the "" Element. 11.1.3.2. version The version lists a non-negative integer that specifies the version of the docType documented by the EBML Schema. Unlike XML Schemas, an EBML Schema documents all versions of a docType's definition rather than using separate EBML Schemas for each version of a docType. EBML Elements may be introduced and deprecated by using the minver and maxver attributes of "". Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 21] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 The version attribute is REQUIRED within the "" Element. 11.1.4. Element Each "" defines one EBML Element through the use of several attributes that are defined in EBML Schema Element Attributes (#ebmlschema-attributes). EBML Schemas MAY contain additional attributes to extend the semantics but MUST NOT conflict with the definitions of the "" attributes defined within this document. The "" nodes contain a description of the meaning and use of the EBML Element stored within one or more "" sub- elements, followed by optional "" sub-elements, followed by zero or one "" sub-element, followed by optional "" sub-elements. All "" nodes MUST be sub-elements of the "". 11.1.5. Attributes Within an EBML Schema the "" uses the following attributes to define an EBML Element: 11.1.5.1. name The name provides the human-readable name of the EBML Element. The value of the name MUST be in the form of characters "A" to "Z", "a" to "z", "0" to "9", "-" and ".". The name attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.5.2. path The path defines the allowed storage locations of the EBML Element within an EBML Document. This path MUST be defined with the full hierarchy of EBML Elements separated with a "\". The top EBML Element in the path hierarchy being the first in the value. The syntax of the path attribute is defined using this Augmented Backus- Naur Form (ABNF) [RFC5234] with the case sensitive update [RFC7405] notation: The path attribute is REQUIRED. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 22] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 EBMLFullPath =3D EBMLEltOccurrence "(" EBMLMasterPath ")" EBMLMasterPath =3D [EBMLParentPath] EBMLElementPath EBMLParentPath =3D EBMLFixedParent EBMLLastParent EBMLFixedParent =3D *(EBMLPathAtom) EBMLElementPath =3D EBMLPathAtom / EBMLPathAtomRecursive EBMLPathAtom =3D PathDelimiter EBMLAtomName EBMLPathAtomRecursive =3D "(1*(" EBMLPathAtom "))" EBMLLastParent =3D EBMLPathAtom / EBMLGlobalParent EBMLGlobalParent =3D "(" GlobalParentOccurence "\)" EBMLAtomName =3D 1*(EBMLNameChar) EBMLNameChar =3D ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" / "." PathDelimiter =3D "\" EBMLEltOccurrence =3D [EBMLMinOccurrence] "*" = [EBMLMaxOccurrence] EBMLMinOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit EBMLMaxOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit GlobalParentOccurence =3D [PathMinOccurrence] "*" = [PathMaxOccurrence] PathMinOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit PathMaxOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT ; no upper limit The "*", "(" and ")" symbols are interpreted as defined in [RFC5234]. The EBMLPathAtom part of the EBMLElementPath MUST be equal to the name attribute of the EBML Schema. The starting PathDelimiter of the path corresponds to the root of the EBML Document. The EBMLEltOccurrence part is interpreted as an ABNF Variable Repetition. The repetition amounts correspond to how many times the EBML Element can be found in its Parent Element. The EBMLMinOccurrence represents the minimum permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element. Each instance of the Parent Element MUST contain at least this many instances of this EBML Element. If the EBML Element has an empty EBMLParentPath then EBMLMinOccurrence refers to constraints on the occurrence of the EBML Element within the EBML Document. If EBMLMinOccurrence is not present then that EBML Element has an EBMLMinOccurrence value of 0. The semantic meaning of EBMLMinOccurrence within an EBML Schema is analogous to the meaning of minOccurs within an XML Schema. EBML Elements with EBMLMinOccurrence set to "1" that also have a default value (see default (#default)) declared are not REQUIRED to be stored but are REQUIRED to be interpreted, see Note on the Use of default attributes to define Mandatory EBML Elements (#note-on-the-use-of-default- attributes-to-define-mandatory-ebml-elements). An EBML Element defined with a EBMLMinOccurrence value greater than zero is called a Mandatory EBML Element. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 23] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 The EBMLMaxOccurrence represents the maximum permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element. Each instance of the Parent Element MUST contain at most this many instances of this EBML Element. If the EBML Element has an empty EBMLParentPath then EBMLMaxOccurrence refers to constraints on the occurrence of the EBML Element within the EBML Document. If EBMLMaxOccurrence is not present then there is no upper bound for the permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element resp. within the EBML Document depending on whether the EBMLParentPath of the EBML Element is empty or not. The semantic meaning of EBMLMaxOccurrence within an EBML Schema path is analogous to the meaning of maxOccurs within an XML Schema. In some cases the EBMLLastParent part of the path is an EBMLGlobalParent. A path with a EBMLGlobalParent defines a Global Element (#global-elements). Any path that starts with the EBMLFixedParent of the Global Element and matches the occurrences found in the GlobalParentOccurence is a valid path for the Global Element. The GlobalParentOccurence part is interpreted as an ABNF Variable Repetition. The repetition amounts correspond to the amount of unspecified Parent Element levels there can be between the EBMLFixedParent and the actual EBMLElementPath. PathMinOccurrence represents the minimum number of element path required between the EBMLFixedParent and the Global Element EBMLElementPath. For example 0 means the EBMLElementPath can be right after the EBMLFixedParent, 1 means there has to be at least an element between the EBMLFixedParent and the EBMLElementPath. If PathMinOccurrence is not present then that EBML Element has an PathMinOccurrence value of 0. PathMaxOccurrence represents the maximum number of element path possible between the EBMLFixedParent and the Global Element EBMLElementPath. It cannot have the value 0 as it would be the Global Element can only be found right after the EBMLFixedParent, in which case it's not a Global Element anymore. If PathMaxOccurrence is not present then there is no upper bound for the permitted number of occurrences of element path possible between the EBMLFixedParent and the Global Element EBMLElementPath. If the path contains an EBMLPathAtomRecursive part, the EBML Element can occur within itself recursively (see the recursive attribute (#recursive)). As an example, a "path" of "1*(\Segment\Info)" means the element Info is found inside the Segment elements at least once and with no Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 24] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 maximum iteration. An element SeekHead with path "0*2(\Segment\SeekHead)" may not be found at all in its Segment parent, once or twice but no more than that. 11.1.5.3. id The Element ID encoded as a Variable Size Integer expressed in hexadecimal notation prefixed by a 0x that is read and stored in big- endian order. To reduce the risk of false positives while parsing EBML Streams, the Element IDs of the Root Element and Top-Level Elements SHOULD be at least 4 octets in length. Element IDs defined for use at Root Level or directly under the Root Level MAY use shorter octet lengths to facilitate padding and optimize edits to EBML Documents; for instance, the Void Element uses an Element ID with a one octet length to allow its usage in more writing and editing scenarios. The id attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.5.4. minOccurs An integer expressing the minimum permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element. The minOccurs value MUST be equal to the EBMLMinOccurrence value of the path. The minOccurs attribute is OPTIONAL. If the minOccurs attribute is not present then that EBML Element has a minOccurs value of 0. 11.1.5.5. maxOccurs An integer expressing the maximum permitted number of occurrences of this EBML Element within its Parent Element. The maxOccurs value MUST be equal to the EBMLMaxOccurrence value of the path. The maxOccurs attribute is OPTIONAL. If the maxOccurs attribute is not present then that EBML Element has no maximum occurrence, similar to unbounded in the XML world. 11.1.5.6. range A numerical range for EBML Elements which are of numerical types (Unsigned Integer, Signed Integer, Float, and Date). If specified the value of the EBML Element MUST be within the defined range. See section of Expressions of range (#expression-of-range) for rules applied to expression of range values. The range attribute is OPTIONAL. If the range attribute is not present then any value legal for the type attribute is valid. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 25] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.5.6.1. Expression of range The range attribute MUST only be used with EBML Elements that are either signed integer, unsigned integer, float, or date. The expression defines the upper, lower, exact or excluded value of the EBML Element and optionally an upper boundary value combined with a lower boundary. The range expression may contain whitespace (using the ASCII 0x20 character) for readability but whitespace within a range expression MUST NOT convey meaning. To set a fixed value for the range, the value is used as the attribute value. For example "1234" means the EBML element always has the value 1234. The value can be prefixed with "not" to indicate that the fixed value MUST NOT be used for that Element. For example "not 1234" means the Element can use all values of its type except 1234. For an exclusive lower boundary the ">" sign is used and the ">=3D" sign is used for an inclusive lower boundary. For example ">3" meaning the Element value MUST be greater than 3 or ">=3D0x1p+0" meaning the Element value MUST be greater than or equal to the floating value 1.0, see textual expression of floats (#textual- expression-of-floats). For an exclusive upper boundary the "<" sign is used and the "<=3D" sign is used for an inclusive upper boundary. For example "<-2" meaning the Element value MUST be less than -2 or "<=3D10" meaning = the Element value MUST be less than or equal to the 10. The lower and upper bounds can be combined into an expression to form a closed boundary. The lower boundary coming first followed by the upper boundary, separated by a comma. For example ">3,<=3D 20" means the Element value MUST be greater than 3 and less than or equal to 20. A special form of lower and upper bounds using the "-" separator is possible, meaning the Element value MUST be greater than or to the first value and MUST be less than or equal to the second value. For example "1-10" is equivalent to ">=3D1,<=3D10". If the upper = boundary is negative, only the latter form MUST be used. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 26] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.5.7. length A value to express the valid length of the Element Data as written measured in octets. The length provides a constraint in addition to the Length value of the definition of the corresponding EBML Element Type. This length MUST be expressed as either a non-negative integer or a range (see expression of range (#expression-of-range)) that consists of only non-negative integers and valid operators. The length attribute is OPTIONAL. If the length attribute is not present for that EBML Element then that EBML Element is only limited in length by the definition of the associated EBML Element Type. 11.1.5.8. default If an Element is mandatory (has a EBMLMinOccurrence value greater than zero) but not written within its Parent Element or stored as an Empty Element, then the EBML Reader of the EBML Document MUST semantically interpret the EBML Element as present with this specified default value for the EBML Element. EBML Elements that are Master Elements MUST NOT declare a default value. EBML Elements with a minOccurs value greater than 1 MUST NOT declare a default value. The default attribute is OPTIONAL. 11.1.5.9. type The type MUST be set to one of the following values: "integer" (signed integer), "uinteger" (unsigned integer), "float", "string", "date", "utf-8", "master", or "binary". The content of each type is defined within section on EBML Element Types (#ebml-element-types). The type attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.5.10. unknownsizeallowed A boolean to express if an EBML Element is permitted to be Unknown- Sized Element (having all VINT_DATA bits of Element Data Size set to 1). EBML Elements that are not Master Elements MUST NOT set unknownsizeallowed to true. An EBML Element that is defined with an unknownsizeallowed attribute set to 1 MUST also have the unknownsizeallowed attribute of its Parent Element set to 1. An EBML Element with the unknownsizeallowed attribute set to 1 MUST NOT have its recursive attribute set to 1. The unknownsizeallowed attribute is OPTIONAL. If the Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 27] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 unknownsizeallowed attribute is not used then that EBML Element is not allowed to use an unknown Element Data Size. 11.1.5.11. recursive A boolean to express if an EBML Element is permitted to be stored recursively. In this case the EBML Element MAY be stored within another EBML Element that has the same Element ID. Which itself can be stored in an EBML Element that has the same Element ID, and so on. EBML Elements that are not Master Elements MUST NOT set recursive to true. If the path contains an EBMLPathAtomRecursive part then the recursive value MUST be true and false otherwise. An EBML Element with the recursive attribute set to 1 MUST NOT have its unknownsizeallowed attribute set to 1. The recursive attribute is OPTIONAL. If the recursive attribute is not present then the EBML Element MUST NOT be used recursively. 11.1.5.12. recurring A boolean to express if an EBML Element is defined as an Identically Recurring Element or not. The recurring attribute is OPTIONAL. If the recurring attribute is not present then the EBML Element is not an Identically Recurring Element. 11.1.5.13. minver The minver (minimum version) attribute stores a non-negative integer that represents the first version of the docType to support the EBML Element. The minver attribute is OPTIONAL. If the minver attribute is not present, then the EBML Element has a minimum version of "1". 11.1.5.14. maxver The maxver (maximum version) attribute stores a non-negative integer that represents the last or most recent version of the docType to support the element. maxver MUST be greater than or equal to minver. The maxver attribute is OPTIONAL. If the maxver attribute is not present then the EBML Element has a maximum version equal to the value stored in the version attribute of "". Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 28] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.6. Element The "" element provides additional information about the EBML Element. Within the "" element the following XHTML [W3C.SPSD-xhtml-basic-20180327] elements MAY be used: "", "
", "". 11.1.7. Attributes 11.1.7.1. lang A lang attribute which is set to the [RFC5646] value of the language of the element's documentation. The lang attribute is OPTIONAL. 11.1.7.2. purpose A purpose attribute distinguishes the meaning of the documentation. Values for the "" sub-element's purpose attribute MUST include one of the following: "definition", "rationale", "usage notes", and "references". The purpose attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.8. Element In some cases within an EBML Document Type, the attributes of the "" element are not sufficient to clearly communicate how the defined EBML Element is intended to be implemented. For instance, one EBML Element might only be mandatory if another EBML Element is present, or as another example, the default value of an EBML Element might derive from a related Element's content. In these cases where the Element's definition is conditional or advanced implementation notes are needed, one or many "" elements can be used to store that information. The "" refer to a specific attribute of the parent "" as expressed by the "note_attribute" attribute Section 11.1.9.1. 11.1.9. Attributes 11.1.9.1. note_attribute The note_attribute attribute references which of the ""'s attributes that the implementation_note is in regards to. The note_attribute attribute MUST be set to one of the following values (corresponding to that attribute of the parent ""): "minOccurs", "maxOccurs", "range", "length", "default", "minver", or Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 29] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 "maxver". The "" SHALL supersede the parent ""'s attribute that is named in the "note_attribute" attribute. An "" SHALL NOT have more than one "" of the same "note_attribute". The note_attribute attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.10. Element The "" element provides information about restrictions to the allowable values for the EBML Element which are listed in "" elements. 11.1.11. Element The "" element stores a list of values allowed for storage in the EBML Element. The values MUST match the type of the EBML Element (for example "" cannot be a valid value for a = EBML Element that is defined as an unsigned integer). An "" element MAY also store "" elements to further describe the "". 11.1.12. Attributes 11.1.12.1. label The label provides a concise expression for human consumption that describes what the value of the "" represents. The label attribute is OPTIONAL. 11.1.12.2. value The value represents data that MAY be stored within the EBML Element. The value attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.13. Element The "" element provides an unconstrained element to contain information about the associated EBML "" which is undefined by this document but MAY be defined by the associated EBML Document Type. The "" element MUST contain a "type" attribute and also MAY contain any other attribute or sub-element as long as the EBML Schema remains as a well-formed XML Document. All "" elements MUST be sub-elements of the "". Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 30] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.14. Attributes 11.1.14.1. type The type attribute should reference a name or identifier of the project or authority associated with the contents of the "" element. The type attribute is REQUIRED. 11.1.15. XML Schema for EBML Schema This following provides an XML Schema [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] for facilitating verification of an EBML Schema to the definition described in Section 8.1. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 31] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.16. Identically Recurring Elements An Identically Recurring Element is an EBML Element that MAY occur within its Parent Element more than once but that each recurrence within that Parent Element MUST be identical both in storage and semantics. Identically Recurring Elements are permitted to be stored multiple times within the same Parent Element in order to increase data resilience and optimize the use of EBML in transmission. For instance a pertinent Top-Level Element could be periodically resent within a data stream so that an EBML Reader which starts reading the stream from the middle could better interpret the contents. Identically Recurring Elements SHOULD include a CRC-32 Element as a Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 33] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 Child Element; this is especially recommended when EBML is used for long-term storage or transmission. If a Parent Element contains more than one copy of an Identically Recurring Element which includes a CRC-32 Element as a Child Element then the first instance of the Identically Recurring Element with a valid CRC-32 value should be used for interpretation. If a Parent Element contains more than one copy of an Identically Recurring Element which does not contain a CRC-32 Element or if CRC-32 Elements are present but none are valid then the first instance of the Identically Recurring Element should be used for interpretation. 11.1.17. Textual expression of floats When a float value is represented textually in an EBML Schema, such as within a default or range value, the float values MUST be expressed as Hexadecimal Floating-Point Constants as defined in the C11 standard [ISO.9899.2011] (see section 6.4.4.2 on Floating Constants). The following table provides examples of expressions of float ranges. +-------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | as decimal | as Hexadecimal Floating-Point Constants | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | 0.0 | "0x0p+1" | +-------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | 0.0-1.0 | "0x0p+1-0x1p+0" | +-------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | 1.0-256.0 | "0x1p+0-0x1p+8" | +-------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | 0.857421875 | "0x1.b7p-1" | +-------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | -1.0--0.857421875 | "-0x1p+0--0x1.b7p-1" | +-------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Table 8 Within an expression of a float range, as in an integer range, the - (hyphen) character is the separator between the minimal and maximum value permitted by the range. Hexadecimal Floating-Point Constants also use a - (hyphen) when indicating a negative binary power. Within a float range, when a - (hyphen) is immediately preceded by a letter p, then the - (hyphen) is a part of the Hexadecimal Floating- Point Constant which notes negative binary power. Within a float range, when a - (hyphen) is not immediately preceded by a letter p, then the - (hyphen) represents the separator between the minimal and maximum value permitted by the range. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 34] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.1.18. Note on the use of default attributes to define Mandatory EBML Elements If a Mandatory EBML Element has a default value declared by an EBML Schema and the value of the EBML Element is equal to the declared default value then that EBML Element is not required to be present within the EBML Document if its Parent Element is present. In this case, the default value of the Mandatory EBML Element MUST be read by the EBML Reader although the EBML Element is not present within its Parent Element. If a Mandatory EBML Element has no default value declared by an EBML Schema and its Parent Element is present then the EBML Element MUST be present as well. If a Mandatory EBML Element has a default value declared by an EBML Schema and its Parent Element is present and the value of the EBML Element is NOT equal to the declared default value then the EBML Element MUST be present. This table clarifies if a Mandatory EBML Element MUST be written, according to if the default value is declared, if the value of the EBML Element is equal to the declared default value, and if the Parent Element is used. +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ | Is the default | Is the | Is the Parent | Then is storing | | value declared? | value equal | Element | the EBML Element | | | to default? | present? | REQUIRED? | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | Yes | Yes | Yes | No | +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ | Yes | Yes | No | No | +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ | Yes | No | Yes | Yes | +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ | Yes | No | No | No | +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ | No | n/a | Yes | Yes | +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ | No | n/a | No | No | +-----------------+-------------+---------------+------------------+ Table 9 11.2. EBML Header Elements This document contains definitions of all EBML Elements of the EBML Header. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 35] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.2.1. EBML Element name: EBML path: "1*1(\EBML)" id: 0x1A45DFA3 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 type: Master Element description: Set the EBML characteristics of the data to follow. Each EBML Document has to start with this. 11.2.2. EBMLVersion Element name: EBMLVersion path: "1*1(\EBML\EBMLVersion)" id 0x4286 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 range: not 0 default: 1 type: Unsigned Integer description: The version of EBML specifications used to create the EBML Document. The version of EBML defined in this document is 1, so EBMLVersion SHOULD be 1. 11.2.3. EBMLReadVersion Element name: EBMLReadVersion path: "1*1(\EBML\EBMLReadVersion)" id: 0x42F7 minOccurs: 1 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 36] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 maxOccurs: 1 range: 1 default: 1 type: Unsigned Integer description: The minimum EBML version an EBML Reader has to support to read this EBML Document. The EBMLReadVersion Element MUST be less than or equal to EBMLVersion. 11.2.4. EBMLMaxIDLength Element name: EBMLMaxIDLength path: "1*1(\EBML\EBMLMaxIDLength)" id 0x42F2 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 range: >=3D4 default: 4 type: Unsigned Integer description: The EBMLMaxIDLength Element stores the maximum permitted length in octets of the Element IDs to be found within the EBML Body. An EBMLMaxIDLength Element value of four is RECOMMENDED, though larger values are allowed. 11.2.5. EBMLMaxSizeLength Element name: EBMLMaxSizeLength path: "1*1(\EBML\EBMLMaxSizeLength)" id 0x42F3 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 range: not 0 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 37] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 default: 8 type: Unsigned Integer description: The EBMLMaxSizeLength Element stores the maximum permitted length in octets of the expressions of all Element Data Sizes to be found within the EBML Body. The EBMLMaxSizeLength Element documents an upper bound for the "length" of all Element Data Size expressions within the EBML Body and not an upper bound for the "value" of all Element Data Size expressions within the EBML Body. EBML Elements that have an Element Data Size expression which is larger in octets than what is expressed by EBMLMaxSizeLength Element are invalid. 11.2.6. DocType Element name: DocType path: "1*1(\EBML\DocType)" id 0x4282 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 length: >0 type: String description: A string that describes and identifies the content of the EBML Body that follows this EBML Header. 11.2.7. DocTypeVersion Element name: DocTypeVersion path: "1*1(\EBML\DocTypeVersion)" id 0x4287 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 range: not 0 default: 1 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 38] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 type: Unsigned Integer description: The version of DocType interpreter used to create the EBML Document. 11.2.8. DocTypeReadVersion Element name: DocTypeReadVersion path: "1*1(\EBML\DocTypeReadVersion)" id 0x4285 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 range: not 0 default: 1 type: Unsigned Integer description: The minimum DocType version an EBML Reader has to support to read this EBML Document. The value of the DocTypeReadVersion Element MUST be less than or equal to the value of the DocTypeVersion Element. 11.2.9. DocTypeExtension Element name: DocTypeExtension path: "0*(\EBML\DocTypeExtension)" id 0x4281 minOccurs: 0 type: Master Element description: A DocTypeExtension adds extra Elements to the main DocType+DocTypeVersion tuple it's attached to. An EBML Reader MAY know these extra Elements and how to use them. A DocTypeExtension MAY be used to iterate between experimental Elements before they are integrated in a regular DocTypeVersion. Reading one DocTypeExtension version of a DocType+DocTypeVersion tuple doesn't imply one should be able to read upper versions of this DocTypeExtension. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 39] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.2.10. DocTypeExtensionName Element name: DocTypeExtensionName path: "1*1(\EBML\DocTypeExtension\Name)" id 0x4283 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 length: >0 type: String description: The name of the DocTypeExtension to differentiate it from other DocTypeExtension of the same DocType+DocTypeVersion tuple. A DocTypeExtensionName value MUST be unique within the EBML Header. 11.2.11. DocTypeExtensionVersion Element name: DocTypeExtensionVersion path: "1*1(\EBML\DocTypeExtension\Version)" id 0x4284 minOccurs: 1 maxOccurs: 1 range: not 0 type: Unsigned Integer description: The version of the DocTypeExtension. Different DocTypeExtensionVersion values of the same DocType+DocTypeVersion+DocTypeExtensionName tuple MAY contain completely different sets of extra Elements. An EBML Reader MAY support multiple versions of the same DocTypeExtension, only one or none. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 40] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 11.3. Global Elements EBML allows some special Elements to be found within more than one parent in an EBML Document or optionally at the Root Level of an EBML Body. These Elements are called Global Elements. There are 2 Global Elements that can be found in any EBML Document: the CRC-32 Element and the Void Element. An EBML Schema MAY add other Global Elements to the format it defines. These extra elements apply only to the EBML Body, not the EBML Header. Global Elements are EBML Elements whose path have a EBMLGlobalParent as their EBMLLastParent. Because it is the last Parent part of the path, a Global Element might also have non-EBMLGlobalParent parts in its path. In this case the Global Element can only be found within this non-EBMLGlobalParent path, i.e. it's not fully "global". The EBMLEltOccurrence of a Global Element is the number of occurrences the Element can be found in a Parent Element. But the Global Element can be found in many Parent Elements, allowing the same number of occurrences in each Parent where this Element is found. 11.3.1. CRC-32 Element name: CRC-32 path: "*1((1*\)\CRC-32)" id: 0xBF minOccurs: 0 maxOccurs: 1 length: 4 type: Binary description: The CRC-32 Element contains a 32-bit Cyclic Redundancy Check value of all the Element Data of the Parent Element as stored except for the CRC-32 Element itself. When the CRC-32 Element is present, the CRC-32 Element MUST be the first ordered EBML Element within its Parent Element for easier reading. All Top-Level Elements of an EBML Document that are Master Elements SHOULD include a CRC-32 Element as a Child Element. The CRC in use is the IEEE-CRC-32 algorithm as used in the [ISO.3309.1979] standard and in section 8.1.1.6.2 of [ITU.V42.1994], with initial value of 0xFFFFFFFF. The Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 41] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 CRC value MUST be computed on a little endian bitstream and MUST use little endian storage. 11.3.2. Void Element name: Void path: "*((*\)\Void)" id: 0xEC minOccurs: 0 type: Binary description: Used to void data or to avoid unexpected behaviors when using damaged data. The content is discarded. Also used to reserve space in a sub-element for later use. 12. Considerations for Reading EBML Data The following scenarios describe events to consider when reading EBML Documents and the recommended design of an EBML Reader. If a Master Element contains a CRC-32 Element that doesn't validate, then the EBML Reader MAY ignore all contained data except for Descendant Elements that contain their own valid CRC-32 Element. If a Master Element contains more occurrences of a Child Master Element than permitted according to the maxOccurs and recurring attributes of the definition of that Element then the occurrences in addition to maxOccurs MAY be ignored. If a Master Element contains more occurrences of a Child Element than permitted according to the maxOccurs attribute of the definition of that Element then all instances of that Element after the first maxOccur occurrences from the beginning of its Parent Element SHOULD be ignored. 13. Terminating Elements Null Octets, which are octets with all bits set to zero, MAY follow the value of a String Element or UTF-8 Element to serve as a terminator. An EBML Writer MAY terminate a String Element or UTF-8 Element with Null Octets in order to overwrite a stored value with a new value of lesser length while maintaining the same Element Data Size (this can prevent the need to rewrite large portions of an EBML Document); otherwise the use of Null Octets within a String Element Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 42] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 or UTF-8 Element is NOT RECOMMENDED. An EBML Reader MUST consider the value of the String Element or UTF-8 Element to be terminated upon the first read Null Octet and MUST ignore any data following the first Null Octet within that Element. A string value and a copy of that string value terminated by one or more Null Octets are semantically equal. The following table shows examples of semantics and validation for the use of Null Octets. Values to represent Stored Values and the Semantic Meaning as represented as hexadecimal values. +---------------------+---------------------+ | Stored Value | Semantic Meaning | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | 0x65 0x62 0x6D 0x6C | 0x65 0x62 0x6D 0x6C | +---------------------+---------------------+ | 0x65 0x62 0x00 0x6C | 0x65 0x62 | +---------------------+---------------------+ | 0x65 0x62 0x00 0x00 | 0x65 0x62 | +---------------------+---------------------+ | 0x65 0x62 | 0x65 0x62 | +---------------------+---------------------+ Table 10 14. Guidelines for Updating Elements An EBML Document can be updated without requiring that the entire EBML Document be rewritten. These recommendations describe strategies to change the Element Data of a written EBML Element with minimal disruption to the rest of the EBML Document. 14.1. Reducing a Element Data in Size There are three methods to reduce the size of Element Data of a written EBML Element. 14.1.1. Adding a Void Element When an EBML Element is changed to reduce its total length by more than one octet, an EBML Writer SHOULD fill the freed space with a Void Element. 14.1.2. Extending the Element Data Size The same value for Element Data Size MAY be written in variable lengths, so for minor reductions in octet length the Element Data Size MAY be written to a longer octet length to fill the freed space. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 43] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 For example, the first row of the following table depicts a String Element that stores an Element ID (3 octets), Element Data Size (1 octet), and Element Data (4 octets). If the Element Data is changed to reduce the length by one octet and if the current length of the Element Data Size is less than its maximum permitted length, then the Element Data Size of that Element MAY be rewritten to increase its length by one octet. Thus before and after the change the EBML Element maintains the same length of 8 octets and data around the Element does not need to be moved. +-------------+------------+-------------------+--------------+ | Status | Element ID | Element Data Size | Element Data | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | Before edit | 0x3B4040 | 0x84 | 0x65626D6C | +-------------+------------+-------------------+--------------+ | After edit | 0x3B4040 | 0x4003 | 0x6D6B76 | +-------------+------------+-------------------+--------------+ Table 11 This method is RECOMMENDED when the Element Data is reduced by a single octet; for reductions by two or more octets it is RECOMMENDED to fill the freed space with a Void Element. Note that if the Element Data length needs to be rewritten as shortened by one octet and the Element Data Size could be rewritten as a shorter VINT then it is RECOMMENDED to rewrite the Element Data Size as one octet shorter, shorten the Element Data by one octet, and follow that Element with a Void Element. For example, the following table depicts a String Element that stores an Element ID (3 octets), Element Data Size (2 octets, but could be rewritten in one octet), and Element Data (3 octets). If the Element Data is to be rewritten to a two octet length, then another octet can be taken from Element Data Size so that there is enough space to add a two octet Void Element. +--------+------------+-------------------+--------------+---------+ | Status | Element ID | Element Data Size | Element Data | Void | | | | | | Element | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | Before | 0x3B4040 | 0x4003 | 0x6D6B76 | | +--------+------------+-------------------+--------------+---------+ | After | 0x3B4040 | 0x82 | 0x6869 | 0xEC80 | +--------+------------+-------------------+--------------+---------+ Table 12 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 44] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 14.1.3. Terminating Element Data For String Elements and UTF-8 Elements the length of Element Data MAY be reduced by adding Null Octets to terminate the Element Data (see the section on Terminating Elements (#terminating-elements)). In the following table, a four octets long Element Data is changed to a three octet long value followed by a Null Octet; the Element Data Size includes any Null Octets used to terminate Element Data so remains unchanged. +-------------+------------+-------------------+--------------+ | Status | Element ID | Element Data Size | Element Data | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | Before edit | 0x3B4040 | 0x84 | 0x65626D6C | +-------------+------------+-------------------+--------------+ | After edit | 0x3B4040 | 0x84 | 0x6D6B7600 | +-------------+------------+-------------------+--------------+ Table 13 Note that this method is NOT RECOMMENDED. For reductions of one octet, the method for Extending the Element Data Size SHOULD be used. For reduction by more than one octet, the method for Adding a Void Element SHOULD be used. 14.2. Considerations when Updating Elements with Cyclic Redundancy Check (CRC) If the Element to be changed is a Descendant Element of any Master Element that contains a CRC-32 Element (see Section 11.3.1) then the CRC-32 Element MUST be verified before permitting the change. Additionally the CRC-32 Element value MUST be subsequently updated to reflect the changed data. 15. Backward and Forward Compatibility Elements of an EBML format SHOULD be designed with backward and forward compatibility in mind. 15.1. Backward Compatibility Backward compatibility of new EBML Elements can be achieved by using default values for mandatory elements. The default value MUST represent the state that was assumed for previous versions of the EBML Schema, without this new EBML Element. If such a state doesn't make sense for previous versions, then the new EBML Element SHOULD NOT be mandatory. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 45] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 Non mandatory EBML Elements can be added in a new EBMLDocTypeVersion. Since they are not mandatory they won't be found in older versions of the EBMLDocTypeVersion, just as they might not be found in newer versions. This causes no compatibility issue. 15.2. Forward Compatibility EBML Elements MAY be marked as deprecated in a new EBMLDocTypeVersion using the maxver attribute of the EBML Schema. If such an Element is found in an EBML Document with newer version of the EBMLDocTypeVersion it SHOULD be discarded. 16. Security Considerations EBML itself does not offer any kind of security and does not provide confidentiality. EBML does not provide any kind of authorization. EBML only offers marginally useful and effective data integrity options, such as CRC elements. Even if the semantic layer offers any kind of encryption, EBML itself could leak information at both the semantic layer (as declared via the DocType Element) and within the EBML structure (the presence of EBML Elements can be derived even with an unknown semantic layer using a heuristic approach; not without errors, of course, but with a certain degree of confidence). An EBML Document that has the following issues may still be handled by the EBML Reader and the data accepted as such, depending on how strict the EBML Reader wants to be: * Invalid Element IDs that are longer than the limit stated in the EBMLMaxIDLength Element of the EBML Header. * Invalid Element IDs that are not encoded in the shortest-possible way. * Invalid Element Data Size values that are longer than the limit stated in the EBMLMaxSizeLength Element of the EBML Header. Element IDs that are unknown to the EBML Reader MAY be accepted as valid EBML IDs in order to skip such elements. EBML Elements with a string type may contain extra data after the first 0x00. These data MUST be discarded according to the Section 13 rules. An EBML Reader may discard some or all data if the following errors are found in the EBML Document: Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 46] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 * Invalid Element Data Size values (e.g. extending the length of the EBML Element beyond the scope of the Parent Element; possibly triggering access-out-of-bounds issues). * Very high lengths in order to force out-of-memory situations resulting in a denial of service, access-out-of-bounds issues etc. * Missing EBML Elements that are mandatory in a Master Element and have no declared default value, making the semantic invalid at that Master Element level. * Usage of invalid UTF-8 encoding in EBML Elements of UTF-8 type (e.g. in order to trigger access-out-of-bounds or buffer overflow issues). * Usage of invalid data in EBML Elements with a date type, triggering bogus date accesses. Side channel attacks could exploit: * The semantic equivalence of the same string stored in a String Element or UTF-8 Element with and without zero-bit padding, making comparison at the semantic level invalid. * The semantic equivalence of VINT_DATA within Element Data Size with two different lengths due to left-padding zero bits, making comparison at the semantic level invalid. * Data contained within a Master Element which is not itself part of a Child Element can trigger incorrect parsing behavior in EBML Readers. * Extraneous copies of Identically Recurring Element, making parsing unnecessarily slow to the point of not being usable. * Copies of Identically Recurring Element within a Parent Element that contain invalid CRC-32 Elements. EBML Readers not checking the CRC-32 might use the version of the element with mismatching CRC-32. * Use of Void Elements which could be used to hide content or create bogus resynchronization points seen by some EBML Reader and not others. 17. IANA Considerations Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 47] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 17.1. CELLAR EBML Element ID Registry This document creates a new IANA Registry called "CELLAR EBML Element ID Registry". Element IDs are described in section Element ID. Element IDs are encoded using the VINT mechanism described in section Section 4 can be between one and five octets long. Five octet long Element IDs are possible only if declared in the header. This IANA Registry only applies to Elements that can be contained in the EBML Header, thus including Global Elements (#global-elements). Elements only found in the EBML Body have their own set of independent Element IDs and are not part of this IANA Registry. The VINT Data value of one-octet Element IDs MUST be between 0x01 and 0x7E. These items are valuable because they are short, and need to be used for commonly repeated elements. Values from 1 to 126 are to be allocated according to the "RFC Required" policy [RFC8126]. The VINT Data value of two-octet Element IDs MUST be between 0x007F and 0x3FFE. Numbers are to be allocated within this range according to the "Specification Required" policy [RFC8126]. The numbers 0x3FFF and 0x4000 are RESERVED. The VINT Data value of three-octet Element IDs MUST be between 0x4001 and 0x1FFFFE. Numbers may be allocated within this range according to the "First Come First Served" policy [RFC8126]. The numbers 0x1FFFFF and 0x200000 are RESERVED. Four-octet Element IDs are numbers between 0x101FFFFF and 0x1FFFFFFE. Four-octet Element IDs are somewhat special in that they are useful for resynchronizing to major structures in the event of data corruption or loss. As such four-octet Element IDs are split into two categories. Four-octet Element IDs whose lower three octets (as encoded) would make printable 7-bit ASCII values (0x20 to 0x7E, inclusive) MUST be allocated by the "Specification Required" policy. Sequential allocation of values is not required: specifications SHOULD include a specific request, and are encouraged to do early allocations. To be clear about the above category: four-octet Element IDs always start with hex 0x10 to 0x1F, and that octet may be chosen so that the entire number has some desirable property, such as a specific CRC. The other three octets, when ALL having values between 0x21 (33, ASCII !) and 0x7E (126, ASCII ~), fall into this category. Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 48] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 Other four-octet Element IDs may be allocated by the "First Come First Served" policy. The numbers 0xFFFFFFF and 0x1000000 are RESERVED. Five octet Element IDs (values from 0x10000001 upwards) are RESERVED according to the "Experimental Use" policy [RFC8126]: they may be used by anyone at any time, but there is no coordination. ID Values found in this document are assigned as initial values as follows: Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 49] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | ID | Element Name | Reference | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | 0x1A45DFA3 | EBML | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.1 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4286 | EBMLVersion | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.2 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x42F7 | EBMLReadVersion | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.3 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x42F2 | EBMLMaxIDLength | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.4 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x42F3 | EBMLMaxSizeLength | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.5 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4282 | DocType | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.6 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4287 | DocTypeVersion | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.7 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4285 | DocTypeReadVersion | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.8 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4281 | DocTypeExtension | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.9 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4283 | DocTypeExtensionName | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.10 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0x4284 | DocTypeExtensionVersion | Described in | | | | Section 11.2.11 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0xBF | CRC-32 | Described in | | | | Section 11.3.1 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ | 0xEC | Void | Described in | | | | Section 11.3.2 | +------------+-------------------------+-----------------+ Table 14 Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 50] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 17.2. CELLAR EBML DocType Registry This document creates a new IANA Registry called "CELLAR EBML DocType Registry". To register a new DocType in this registry one needs a DocType name, a Description of the DocType, a Change Controller (IESG or email of registrant) and an optional Reference to a document describing the DocType. DocType values are described in this section (#doctype). DocTypes are ASCII strings, defined in the String Element section (#string- element), which label the official name of the EBML Document Type. The strings may be allocated according to the "First Come First Served" policy. The use of ASCII corresponds to the types and code already in use, the value is not meant to be visible to the user. DocType string values of "matroska" and "webm" are RESERVED to the IETF for future use. These can be assigned via the "IESG Approval" or "RFC Required" policies [RFC8126]. 18. Normative References [IEEE.754.1985] Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, "Standard for Binary Floating-Point Arithmetic", August 1985. [ISO.3309.1979] International Organization for Standardization, "Data communication - High-level data link control procedures - Frame structure", 1979. [ISO.9899.2011] International Organization for Standardization, "Programming languages - C", 2011. [ITU.V42.1994] International Telecommunications Union, "Error-correcting Procedures for DCEs Using Asynchronous-to-Synchronous Conversion", 1994. [RFC0020] Cerf, V., "ASCII format for network interchange", STD 80, RFC 20, DOI 10.17487/RFC0020, October 1969, . Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 51] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, DOI 10.17487/RFC2119, March 1997, . [RFC3339] Klyne, G. and C. Newman, "Date and Time on the Internet: Timestamps", RFC 3339, DOI 10.17487/RFC3339, July 2002, . [RFC3629] Yergeau, F., "UTF-8, a transformation format of ISO 10646", STD 63, RFC 3629, DOI 10.17487/RFC3629, November 2003, . [RFC5234] Crocker, D., Ed. and P. Overell, "Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF", STD 68, RFC 5234, DOI 10.17487/RFC5234, January 2008, . [RFC5646] Phillips, A., Ed. and M. Davis, Ed., "Tags for Identifying Languages", BCP 47, RFC 5646, DOI 10.17487/RFC5646, September 2009, . [RFC7405] Kyzivat, P., "Case-Sensitive String Support in ABNF", RFC 7405, DOI 10.17487/RFC7405, December 2014, . [RFC8126] Cotton, M., Leiba, B., and T. Narten, "Guidelines for Writing an IANA Considerations Section in RFCs", BCP 26, RFC 8126, DOI 10.17487/RFC8126, June 2017, . [RFC8174] Leiba, B., "Ambiguity of Uppercase vs Lowercase in RFC 2119 Key Words", BCP 14, RFC 8174, DOI 10.17487/RFC8174, May 2017, . [W3C.REC-xml-20081126] Bray, T., Paoli, J., Sperberg-McQueen, M., Maler, E., and F. Yergeau, "Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (Fifth Edition)", World Wide Web Consortium Recommendation REC- xml-20081126, 26 November 2008, . [W3C.SPSD-xhtml-basic-20180327] McCarron, S., "XHTML(tm) Basic 1.1 - Second Edition", 27 March 2018. 19. Informative References Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 52] =0C Internet-Draft EBML October 2019 [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] Fallside, D. and P. Walmsley, "XML Schema Part 0: Primer Second Edition", World Wide Web Consortium Recommendation=20= REC-xmlschema-0-20041028, 28 October 2004, . Authors' Addresses Steve Lhomme Email: slhomme@matroska.org Dave Rice Email: dave@dericed.com Moritz Bunkus Email: moritz@bunkus.org Lhomme, et al. Expires 23 April 2020 [Page 53] --Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii --Apple-Mail=_3CEF22D2-68BC-49E3-ABE9-E337F8FEA435-- --Apple-Mail=_826F171C-452B-41F2-8E91-66701F5AD401-- From nobody Mon Oct 21 11:28:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D289120105; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:28:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Tz11E5EpcO2; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C50C4120025; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:63513 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1iMcQ7-0005M8-AB; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:28:43 -0700 To: Dave Rice , Michael Richardson References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> Cc: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 20:28:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ptLoU8KVSwCl7oBJ4xObAT0v5In8IGXGN" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org, mcr@sandelman.ca, dave@dericed.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] [Tools-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:28:46 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ptLoU8KVSwCl7oBJ4xObAT0v5In8IGXGN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="bObqwQqt16vqvERonClErPtS781OCnT8D"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Dave Rice , Michael Richardson Cc: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> In-Reply-To: --bObqwQqt16vqvERonClErPtS781OCnT8D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave, On 2019-10-21 20:22, Dave Rice wrote: > Hi Michael, >=20 >> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Michael Richardson > > wrote: >> >> >> Dave, is ebml in XML v3, uploaded as such? >=20 > It was uploaded via https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/. >=20 >> Were the txt and HTML generated by you or the datatracker? >=20 > With xml2rfc 2.32.0 locally the files look ok, I=E2=80=99m attaching th= em. >=20 > I haven=E2=80=99t tested but in the XML within the we have= 0x0A for line=20 > breaks. I wonder if an 0x0d (carriage return) would make a difference, = though I=20 > feel guilty using up version numbers just to test that. Using 0x0D will not make a difference. I've run into this for at least one other draft, and I believe that the upcoming new datatracker release deployment will pull in the latest xml2r= fc and address this. I will do some additional testing in my dev copy, though. Best regards, Henrik >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 >> >> looking at the diff of the txt, there are a bunch of relative referenc= es which=20 >> did not >> get expanded correctly from the markdown: >> >> unknownsizeallowed attribute (#unknownsizeallowed)). >=20 > I=E2=80=99ll address that separately. >=20 >> Looks like a tooling issue somewhere. >> Looking at this: >> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html >> >> I don't see #unknownsizeallowed in the same way, but the reference tha= t is >> generated looks off to me. >> >> -- >> ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh ne= tworks [ >> ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT archi= tect [ >> ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ = |=20 >> ruby on rails [ >> >> >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --bObqwQqt16vqvERonClErPtS781OCnT8D-- --ptLoU8KVSwCl7oBJ4xObAT0v5In8IGXGN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl2t+NMACgkQTptXS4+7 FxofIQ//eu1v12zg/TADV7CnBDxDgaQ6AzVfNhtT4+J+4SSDnT86aKTo2XG08PPr 0XoQhYqUUx1UO0Pn/d40SymCYXjE2sj6AMpzLuv5tI1RA7K6qnYJG0P/8ZZek1cB ZDTgxaRohwAaYgpog4LSuVoDghtvCyFhlJD4klpMsdyOeOGMTEPdu6DWH/So7xzZ AY1aLJpXQuUq6yJl2zmk5DXnOgw1Z7pLMfN5sE8dqMiroSzIva0nJtlNfkFEq1zT 9b6HpnFKEUSx5iSDh0vuKVKG/vnnLSnci8RaTk5iOmBaQaKLsu+dsqzs9QzAVRXf Fteb3rzQ4WJLEU12Wa9Kqhcepv+tRZIdnol1XfxaUfZl4dMhP/WGTAkxO/hOTHlm KWPffdF0tPIIn+cYHOPuqIkoigx3rEVVOmNLW2RaIc24Pmn+CVg3lCDmizoaWtdA WRyJbMoljQ0+xQCXjP30gwfy4oVxBG+lx0AkyTmDetOL1zLRkqvhovMoU/jX60JJ gtGbwOe/WdYD+sRzqN2cpHnL8xdbxchQzvEmixFknhUWCELetermc8F21POtCtj6 i8BXUAKL20s0simWZV95NZtQU4uy1fuSYUprsYWd+t1FaXEK8VU1hrAJMrTfNSTR 0g8H0uAm/E1DxdqqIeHZ6T5z/MyIYhUlcYrzZroe40jxnvBFmt8= =QO6b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ptLoU8KVSwCl7oBJ4xObAT0v5In8IGXGN-- From nobody Mon Oct 21 12:37:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45F2120830; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:37:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iq9D2NFq9ajR; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AACD1202A0; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=62484 helo=[10.10.201.23]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iMdUj-000eR0-M3; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:37:38 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Dave Rice In-Reply-To: <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:37:27 -0400 Cc: Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] [Tools-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:37:41 -0000 Hi Henrik, > On Oct 21, 2019, at 2:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 > Hi Dave, >=20 > On 2019-10-21 20:22, Dave Rice wrote: >> Hi Michael, >>=20 >>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Michael Richardson >> > wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Dave, is ebml in XML v3, uploaded as such? >>=20 >> It was uploaded via https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/. >>=20 >>> Were the txt and HTML generated by you or the datatracker? >>=20 >> With xml2rfc 2.32.0 locally the files look ok, I=E2=80=99m attaching = them. >>=20 >> I haven=E2=80=99t tested but in the XML within the we = have 0x0A for line=20 >> breaks. I wonder if an 0x0d (carriage return) would make a = difference, though I=20 >> feel guilty using up version numbers just to test that. >=20 > Using 0x0D will not make a difference. >=20 > I've run into this for at least one other draft, and I believe that = the > upcoming new datatracker release deployment will pull in the latest = xml2rfc > and address this. >=20 > I will do some additional testing in my dev copy, though. Is there a way to tell which version of xml2rfc is used in the = datatracker at any particular time? It would be helpful to ensure my = local testing matches. Dave > Best regards, >=20 > Henrik >=20 >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 >>>=20 >>> looking at the diff of the txt, there are a bunch of relative = references which=20 >>> did not >>> get expanded correctly from the markdown: >>>=20 >>> unknownsizeallowed attribute (#unknownsizeallowed)). >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ll address that separately. >>=20 >>> Looks like a tooling issue somewhere. >>> Looking at this: >>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html >>>=20 >>> I don't see #unknownsizeallowed in the same way, but the reference = that is >>> generated looks off to me. >>>=20 >>> -- >>> ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ >>> ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT = architect [ >>> ] mcr@sandelman.ca = http://www.sandelman.ca/ |=20 >>> ruby on rails [ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>=20 >> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>=20 >> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar From nobody Mon Oct 21 12:39:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B4E120837; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:39:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XIJxEk74jqrT; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 545051202A0; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:64101 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1iMdWu-0002qe-NA; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:39:49 -0700 To: Dave Rice References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> Cc: Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 21:39:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wJKroo1t9T3AdDmhv6i75ErP0UTQvwIIg" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org, mcr@sandelman.ca, dave@dericed.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] [Tools-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:39:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --wJKroo1t9T3AdDmhv6i75ErP0UTQvwIIg Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4uDoTpChFoWiTqd2W5aHeadllnEBQJkBc"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Dave Rice Cc: Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Cellar] [Tools-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: --4uDoTpChFoWiTqd2W5aHeadllnEBQJkBc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave, On 2019-10-21 21:37, Dave Rice wrote: > Hi Henrik, >=20 >> On Oct 21, 2019, at 2:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz w= rote: >>=20 >> Hi Dave, >>=20 >> On 2019-10-21 20:22, Dave Rice wrote: >>> Hi Michael, >>>=20 >>>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Michael Richardson >>> > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Dave, is ebml in XML v3, uploaded as such? >>>=20 >>> It was uploaded via https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/. >>>=20 >>>> Were the txt and HTML generated by you or the datatracker? >>>=20 >>> With xml2rfc 2.32.0 locally the files look ok, I=E2=80=99m attaching = them. >>>=20 >>> I haven=E2=80=99t tested but in the XML within the we ha= ve 0x0A for line=20 >>> breaks. I wonder if an 0x0d (carriage return) would make a difference= , though I=20 >>> feel guilty using up version numbers just to test that. >>=20 >> Using 0x0D will not make a difference. >>=20 >> I've run into this for at least one other draft, and I believe that th= e >> upcoming new datatracker release deployment will pull in the latest xm= l2rfc >> and address this. >>=20 >> I will do some additional testing in my dev copy, though. >=20 > Is there a way to tell which version of xml2rfc is used in the datatrac= ker at any particular time? It would be helpful to ensure my local testin= g matches. The generated HTML file should have the xml2rfc version in a meta tag: Best regards, Henrik > Dave >=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Henrik >>=20 >>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12 >>>>=20 >>>> looking at the diff of the txt, there are a bunch of relative refere= nces which=20 >>>> did not >>>> get expanded correctly from the markdown: >>>>=20 >>>> unknownsizeallowed attribute (#unknownsizeallowed)). >>>=20 >>> I=E2=80=99ll address that separately. >>>=20 >>>> Looks like a tooling issue somewhere. >>>> Looking at this: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.html >>>>=20 >>>> I don't see #unknownsizeallowed in the same way, but the reference t= hat is >>>> generated looks off to me. >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ >>>> ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT arc= hitect [ >>>> ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca= / |=20 >>>> ruby on rails [ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>=20 >>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>=20 >>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Cellar mailing list >> Cellar@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar >=20 >=20 --4uDoTpChFoWiTqd2W5aHeadllnEBQJkBc-- --wJKroo1t9T3AdDmhv6i75ErP0UTQvwIIg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl2uCX0ACgkQTptXS4+7 Fxqhzw/+InMd+ubMKnbkcWOwW03ZNLoHhWqVySVopyrJKW+PL0b0eBus4F4kcehO //hh4OVO0a6Zp3ZUGVO+xqh/2YFjPgLdaK93jq5iqa37+rer7TEy3NMu9ZVPYLOF OEvce+deQs+b0PaEnwn9fjjpt7nbivdOt/I6IzrC/D7geQrPiwuFW9WHLjVcXCF8 ZdN464fdlERgwH+EPuol2rzrvub0AAY+CpXGKSVoR6vmanUaqKtVYFrifGR4zs6D fGaeL6VBIyGobIP7ZhbKPX6lmTMqiXWGdi4ZtY3+jjQvpbRfFJ31rQCIposnCNmU pVUoOqkYneNXWZm5VR5PNHqhKWwPUA38oXnbx64atIlzJMpnd8X0mt4YulFH2aNf CAw294MR3iBrWpEU7sFelqPHA27WuzqfHjOTiOF3kPH5DNPxAGU0yBP5akosvNTk aVFWzd3GKfgYZCp67wEcA0v7VR8qcQ5CDv8zFMabmrYTXFDeLb2eqSjARageTyuP SdAcYBy7w4LZf+1X9DT3SwQXZ9MwFl9lP8UUr9Sf28uoTnOAbHPgzKzS1h2A6xUj FF8/BUR7brAmhBoWc40PD/eCgbEmfCp7jpxa828tKn1KlBEW95ZPUJtV1nBLIEUn 6/Ijhmg9RpDzb7kEI9NLoeiH2zZFbD3DhMH9UVIDHY0H189dYCA= =JKUU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wJKroo1t9T3AdDmhv6i75ErP0UTQvwIIg-- From nobody Mon Oct 21 12:45:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245E91208C3; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hXGPI_5DacOK; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C1E2120860; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:45:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1571687071; bh=AEzExdO46XpKfK60v7Pa8jnRRaqWMKiqawbe8oyy1p8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=a2R/+/xHb3+cFW11x9DcPF4zBBPtNeQ2Xe5FJpaTwJMiYaA8PZYVxmIdnt8JyXGFt rKe1w3MkTeDqg7fVNfIJUnobe/4rl0o6oY36v7dBGCBmUHqW/24OKa2X8tYesuTeMS wNBrrCc3Krsw64chm2S99UmLSQJwyCLhFgEcYOj4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([217.251.143.142]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MFbRs-1iEQvx0EGc-00HA7F; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 21:44:31 +0200 To: Henrik Levkowetz , Dave Rice Cc: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <157167166904.31800.14436237517062444902@ietfa.amsl.com> <2259.1571680217@localhost> <7d488832-92f7-5e8c-896f-d4a3bb3ada61@levkowetz.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 21:44:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6Vm06aimjB3pH2UBgO5gHlQvwfWYf/bcoQOwdBWDayEMX2FB+Vv Nwow/b5Z5ZC8MP2CtDWgQwKcYh3FpQoBLvItMJ1d4G0eXF2GHGpKe+MmzC39pmOpkfhU/we veDk1+gGNTWNhPSYqQkQ8c1jH6/2U30cGoAwE5/N9GqwhSPyaOaD1yi6DrY2gMQbXeOCLgS BGKXCg2gZOoINyxVGquoA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Ko/K3aMSPg4=:+xUdpIkYLwbyq9suySM7nx vMQEqJYXKf49397Wwpu4qTAvdfFFgC8/NY1eZtvs9nSLex/MdfY1NMmdGWiOnM0CggPmGC1MZ 99BCvaB9kul1JfjMM2/LPnouYlO1nI8SUnVzlRJm91cIv2qwaAbJ6fRTjjM5T1KWfrsC6pIa3 A+XDo8ZbEJgKo7v+BP40xuF5V7qm7qNwE1b/rGgKZEIPx73TGjefwAJOZPdyL+Xue/1quIXlu SP86t9yz/oW06AjfantiPxC4tgMMO7KiEclOGmSaOMJ/ccvycYiptanEzKjHeJ0jcv45Vn+kO LPO8DMY+OyOk9Cvd7xWFZASVJlGuFUn7ekKWHAi4n08dLhFj65ksh85ENvWvuIb6hLsLjnyIO +P9ZjbnuASjypZz72sTy23D7+Ij73Yc4kuKOlO7ZeguW0WvV0aCyZabW6Vn0gNF7YVaOVsybO 7Ug9/w3XoHFdLF5cok/ZyAV/d5cfNOBEkPZd8V3VL98KToAo7fwBSmE3Zp2ELapl4VEox0z2R TKxpEj02Y/eSJq3DIHsv118kmOHPl7VVHohbBfFibd/zWjoVsNi1NB8l/bF787lCS90Wzg4ol q8kGzVUHZKoq26oAgJDanAMlkj83Hmi0DdudQbAyi6v7023RGBkJC4gfFxdC4JSlqN2MeDL02 xaQvWuhyma6wz2NMpSpXtFtuUhlGikg/EvcIH+OMbEPnaW+QoeMaO1QsJ+abRR9djPEik311O n/ij4l45MOo78w7g3aPftN2EVjPRpQt5M5hCHR28pqe3ijBWgZaNBHqhIEihbbo+8kD14g2By vwCqIS167ObiAtKpzDkOI8NgOmeNPUYTDop+VQW21omWnWTnrUXJuBMwyiHh9D52RFdybi9Fy 7pVK3VDzbe7Y0Qo3ATt2q1rHnsL9QNUBsG9McF0WX46j+5YTLoYojkiBWL5HFWAaRfAb272J3 Azayx7L3xSXyGKuIT+DmCwC/7L3F3976AEir2DWlnDP7QWjqkaBoYxgHeexlrOAHTaeQpOR/s FjT6yRXT35ya58XwOGDRsuSPtDMojzNWwK2eKCClU+1tnGjFGQkuflue1V037KImsQapNPhZO gzAGdT1WOjPajpSqdu1BsrZTAFgIeHjArvIwaUdL1/a8Ws7g+XclzGwyOzTqE9yRmpDskcavN sNYvUyGcQLE4sQra0YVrjlWy+NshQmYUUo7lulUdXXe5Bvz/DezqFh7I0vnvkTGfUny2Bb/PK arswYcs+dO+4h2nvJNUR7HPDc74Qwl3CGbc50KdR1cBvx6uF7tTTJIvOz/rY= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] [Tools-discuss] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-12.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 19:45:44 -0000 On 21.10.2019 21:39, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > ... >> Is there a way to tell which version of xml2rfc is used in the datatrac= ker at any particular time? It would be helpful to ensure my local testing= matches. > > The generated HTML file should have the xml2rfc version in a meta tag: > > ... shows the issue and has a generator tag of 2.32.0. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Oct 21 15:03:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A83120A34 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:03:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpuFHrevYlJ6 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F07F7120A5C for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id e11so6966220wrv.4 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:02:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XEotpaWm94F89h8VX7xX6Ffu3bWmFVOveC74H25hj64=; b=jvnN3SMFSb/m2JoNBqNQGAnHSd79yLJDUP0ItAoUfPJPuuU/0B9nFxBPFaFo17RpUf G6Rxzz/6JqmVf0C4K7NVG7OmeBGeHhJnjb0mbSNM3dycg8LrWxLBTbpJDs+myBgJK1Lg YWQf3aTBQ62MZoUfZuXj6MFR/GKqQFbtMWVZUR8eKOAPODRwMT6DCfdYQAR8UIGcEzCb L1dOg5CT5RWl74In/fzg4dVM4GVfu7Yt+6J+DtXAzXOlywUL1KjgPcbiNV4FVjYlatd8 Av1eqxDtIWBVJXgTSp7cFw4s56b8IWiE5316aKRc4lpPO+IRw6NJbWPtC/oWiP5hAVoW BE3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XEotpaWm94F89h8VX7xX6Ffu3bWmFVOveC74H25hj64=; b=gneBqewqJmYNzfW09m226bISOtHBt/wIacGcJ/qBoiNt+gAPvJCBCVaJjGSq74JBtz yfq2LnjLFANPtZWlHcGzi9kB/qrKAEmEWpKE3Wo76d/cB72NjAcvW4gwtdcMIxfAGmcu PGlhq6kKXlvKHo32hE0toTpPGsK6uCc8T+WnW5otvSu7k7lieMANC9+kU+Ru0k7rnEZ3 VRgiRlmhr1bkBJdnqknDBTTOaNHHfHVEdMxQ3rpU5SAzrrEZ/+Ngha40fLSJZryzTGX4 yIoKSXtMAZGTQeXV1ZRRSJR7qGbU8pOCS/ba/y4OqVNlVGJWZEOmJ1mabsKHTinTPUHf 6nqw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU397VON46EshifclifUDq2+cVqoGpF+3bkIcRWHw/2j9pHjl1N nwY3Q/M5SRPR6CcS/+ueutdj6Rzg X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxi7eqax0D/RL0NrN+WpgaNuUf+DWff6fp4TsjoEsU4RoF3z5epnrb76IeVn2RkHhINUQO/XQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4285:: with SMTP id k5mr364371wrq.344.1571695376114; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([82.129.88.112]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g5sm14449330wmg.12.2019.10.21.15.02.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:02:55 -0700 (PDT) To: cellar@ietf.org From: Derek Buitenhuis Message-ID: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 23:02:55 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:03:01 -0000 So over the last few weeks, I wrote an FFV1 decoder from scatch, in Go, trying to only reference the spec. Found a fair few spec issues, and opened bugs for them all. The idea was rather than make it fast or idiomatic, make it easy to map parts of it back to the spec (via names and comments). So, yeah, kinda ugly right, and very much not fast. It does have basic slice threading, though. Perhaps of use to some people on here. Link: https://github.com/dwbuiten/go-ffv1 Please note it only handles version 3 FFV1 files. Cheers, - Derek From nobody Mon Oct 21 15:28:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1DF120A62 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:28:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QRRZ9-1RULxJ for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD47D120891 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id o49so15872842qta.7 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:28:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wCxdzM3A5IfGYqTY5bReQeUhhaTUIaoUfUSycIAgec4=; b=P0qFcegz3XTxYo4xcrBp850tjjijsQbDA9/doXtIYVZ2/TMpgfi9jb96qmIEKVcqGi j1d7crG7fTw200SMvLn5SNU0m8fXbiLEB1X3FI+0WR7Eq07hv3hRL3t31lpJJcwHRsMj 4VbAu94NlDbeo1UnFP3aEPzn6s0FVSNGyVzpeErTQrLAaBBU8EH7sRaDnLbMm499LzQb 2De3K3eYE9HxZyhYvRMp0v62n5Wl9EKEwg1SUf7FI4OWCBGCyJDc6gRmiuvm2NcYRcJY NCBGImE4oak8ZdmZYEillPETcPp58AKB7mV9JE3cRc9ZwrUXqZBCPGZrd3SLg7DG3nHb WHjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wCxdzM3A5IfGYqTY5bReQeUhhaTUIaoUfUSycIAgec4=; b=s9CfIWUWX1bmeAItcTpoiuwXtHNKUf+SHcXzzleXnsdEjDxZVRsQt3JyK6GJ6Wg8V2 O5ltmry0QAGOHEvn9UmFwuhoLqBDfrf9wJBgnSHRcrm+t8NMy7n8JgPtR9HFtgGEAxls AvCnmCwi2Q068KqllkclLnORtaAJ5/WBAoC+07IuN7wJVfExKvM29sqjk3UDY08l9N3p dSSb0f9bcq5/Dgqz8t+COOvPjxf2WCanhyzjcrRKs9iqWGmQjor40GaPbgO4aROXahzF J7YwZWJ9SFia7zQQrmBk69/qkbANWN5rrk2YIEOqw+L/OzkV7RNLARu8I7x6kDK2Ei22 7/GQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXuOuhkqf5mVrXqCRgmozCOqhVP2foSAXL7NtnIUoE1YGCVcy+f bc5LnDApntdDv03F4tU8qtQVW2JjF8TysUbBVw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqylS2PSf+EBl4jXFoTo17TwkfLOUtUdpapr0K/qiA2bU5rCx6vQDl0/4qdIAW4NScPBvyWgX/uSYCoJvWPTj1A= X-Received: by 2002:aed:3c49:: with SMTP id u9mr161653qte.37.1571696906745; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:28:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> From: Kieran O Leary Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 23:28:12 +0100 Message-ID: To: Derek Buitenhuis Cc: cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d23a010595733336" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:28:30 -0000 --000000000000d23a010595733336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Derek On Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 23:03 Derek Buitenhuis, wrote: > So over the last few weeks, I wrote an FFV1 decoder from scatch, in Go, > trying to only reference the spec. Found a fair few spec issues, and > opened bugs for them all. > I think this is a fantastic project and it makes me feel like the specification is (or will be) much more robust after your project. It's great to know that future decoders could be built from scratch just using the spec. > The idea was rather than make it fast or idiomatic, make it easy to > map parts of it back to the spec (via names and comments). > > So, yeah, kinda ugly right, and very much not fast. It does have basic > slice threading, though. > > Perhaps of use to some people on here. > I've never really used Go before but I hope to try this out tomorrow on some of our files. > Link: https://github.com/dwbuiten/go-ffv1 > > Please note it only handles version 3 FFV1 files. > Thanks for this awesome work. Best, Kieran O'Leary, Irish Film Institute > Cheers, > - Derek > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > --000000000000d23a010595733336 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I w= ill try one more time: if I write an implementation that has hardcoded l= imit of 8 would it be considered compliant with this specification. I th= ink asking to support arbitrary length values is a big ask.
In my draft I= would considering "no upper limit=E2=80=9D and 36,028,797,018,963,967 t= o effectively be the same or that the definition does not define the lim= it but in practice it would be limited by the capacity of the Element Da= ta Size of the parent Element.
I = will let the document start IETF LC without this issue being fully resol= ved, but I suspect it will come up again during IESG review.
<= br>
11.1.10.1.  label
<= br>
  The label provides a concise exp= ression for human consumption that
 &nb= sp;describes what the value of the "<enum>" represents.
<= div class=3D"qt-">
Is it worth adding a cros= s reference to the "lang" attribute here?

Do you mean to expre= ss the language of the term used within the label? Currently the languag= e of the label is undefined and since it is an attribute that label is n= ot repeatable.

To be honest I am not= yet sure how I feel about "undefined language" here. Need to think abou= t that.
But either way, I think adding some text that "lang" attrib= ute doesn't apply would be helpful.
In the case of Matroska, the labels are in English. In the E= BML definition we could say that the labels are in English unless the de= finition of that associated EBML Document Type claims otherwise.
Ok.

12. &nb= sp;Considerations for Reading EBML Data

=
  If a Master Element contains a CRC-= 32 Element that doesn't validate,
 &nbs= p;then the EBML Reader MAY ignore all contained data except for
  Descendant Elements that contain their o= wn valid CRC-32 Element.

I don't fully understand your use of "MAY ... except ..." here= .
Can you elaborate on why would an implemen= tation ignore data contained in a Master Element and not ignore Descenda= nt Elements, even if they own CRC-32 is valid?

For instance if= a Matroska file has three metadata tags and each has a CRC value and so= does the parent Tags element like this.
<Tags crc=3Dinvalid>
  <Tag crc=3Dvalid>
&nbs= p; <Tag crc=3Dvalid>
  <Tag cr= c=3Dinvalid>
<Tags>

We=E2=80=99re trying to say th= at even though the contents of the <Tags> element is invalid, that= the valid child elements may still be used.
So to me this means that after discarding all invalid elements you en= d up with something like this:

<Tags >
  <= Tag crc=3Dvalid>
</Tags>

As this is an incomple= te document, I am struggling to understand what it can be used for?
<= /div>

In that case, the valid Tags= are still useful even if within a parent element whos contents are inva= lid. Perhaps another example would be in the Attachments Element:

<Attachments crc=3Dinvalid>
<= span class=3D"qt-Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre;"><A= ttachment crc=3Dinvalid>Poster Art</Attachment>
<= span class=3D"qt-Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre;"><A= ttachment crc=3Dvalid>Subtitle Font</Attachment>
= </Attachments>

Here some bit damage o= ccurs to the Poster Art so the Attachment and its parent Attachments now= have invalid crcs, however the subtitle font is still ok and could be u= sed in the presentation without an issue.
I suggest some examples along the lines of your reply should be added= to the document. This is not a property commonly found in IETF formats,= so talking more about it would be useful.

= Best Regards,
Alexey

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I followed up on a few remaining issues in a separate thread. I just reviewed changed since version -10 and have a few new minor comments: I think [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] should be a Normative Reference, because of how it is referenced in Section 11.1.15. (I assume the XML Schema there is normative.) It would be good to have an example of in the document. In Section 11.1.5.8 the following test was added: An unwritten mandatory Element with a declared default value is semantically to that Element I think the word "equivalent" is missing after "semantically". if written with the default value stored as the Element Data. I would ask editors to address these in the next revision. However the above are not serious enough to delay IETF LC, so I will start it now. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Thu Oct 24 06:52:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E27120E83; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 06:52:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: CC: villereal@gmail.com, cellar-chairs@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org, Steven Villereal , draft-ietf-cellar-ebml@ietf.org, alexey.melnikov@isode.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <157192513765.11396.14481250570145729850.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 06:52:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Last Call: (Extensible Binary Meta Language) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:52:22 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG (cellar) to consider the following document: - 'Extensible Binary Meta Language' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-11-07. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines the Extensible Binary Meta Language (EBML) format as a generalized file format for any type of data in a hierarchical form. EBML is designed as a binary equivalent to XML and uses a storage-efficient approach to build nested Elements with identifiers, lengths, and values. Similar to how an XML Schema defines the structure and semantics of an XML Document, this document defines how EBML Schemas are created to convey the semantics of an EBML Document. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Oct 24 07:03:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC8212086A for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:03:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sHvagdbsYb8y for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5D18120840 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=40752 helo=[10.10.201.21]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iNdhV-003Dse-Np; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:02:59 -0400 From: Dave Rice Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C90463EA-8D7E-4C89-AA95-9F4C237031A1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:02:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8cdc2a28-787b-419e-84b5-9b998a18390d@www.fastmail.com> Cc: cellar@ietf.org To: Alexey Melnikov References: <3835cda8-7bfb-4178-bec7-b0acff9327ba@www.fastmail.com> <52b3f63f-fddb-4438-be5f-f61359307f98@www.fastmail.com> <89CEEC4A-78D9-40BF-8A4D-732C7A199F30@dericed.com> <8cdc2a28-787b-419e-84b5-9b998a18390d@www.fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Second AD review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:03:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C90463EA-8D7E-4C89-AA95-9F4C237031A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Alexey, > On Oct 24, 2019, at 8:33 AM, Alexey Melnikov = wrote: >=20 > Hi Dave, >=20 > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 2:53 PM, Dave Rice wrote: >>> On Jul 11, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Alexey Melnikov > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Dave, >>> I removed comments where we are in agreement. A few followups: >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Dave Rice wrote: >>>> Hello Alexey, >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks much for providing this thorough review. I=E2=80=99ll try to = reply point by point below with references to either pull requests or = issues or offer followup questions. In a few places I ping Steve Lhomme = and Michael Richardson as the comments relate to text they originated in = their work. >>>>=20 >>>>> EBMLElementOccurrence =3D [EBMLMinOccurrence] "*" = [EBMLMaxOccurrence] >>>>> EBMLMinOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>>> EBMLMaxOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>>>=20 >>>>> Are there any upper limits on allowed values for these fields? = Even if you don't encode them using ABNF, it would be good to mention = them in an ABNF comment. >>>>>=20 >>>>> VariableParentOccurrence =3D [PathMinOccurrence] "*" = [PathMaxOccurrence] >>>>> PathMinOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>>> PathMaxOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>>>=20 >>>>> Same comment as above. >>>>=20 >>>> I looked for examples of that sort of commenting but didn=E2=80=99t = find much guidance. Eventually I simply appended " ; no upper limit=E2=80=9D= to each of the four referenced lines and added that to = https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/265 = . >>> I think this is the wrong fix. Is it sufficient for an = implementation to use 32 bit value to represent any of these? 64 bit = value? >>> "no upper limit" is not going to be interoperable. >>=20 >> The smallest possible EBML Element is 2 bytes (1 bytes Element ID, 1 = byte Element Data Size, and 0 bytes of Element Data). The upper limit of = how many occurrences would be determined by the limit of the Element = Data Size of the Parent Element. If the EBML Document has = EBMLMaxSizeLength as the default of 8, then the upper limit of an = Element Data Size is 72,057,594,037,927,934 bytes. Is the smallest = possible Element is 2 bytes, then the upper limit of that Element=E2=80=99= s occurrence would be 72,057,594,037,927,934 divided by two. >>=20 >> So if EBMLMaxSizeLength =3D 8, then this is possible >>=20 >> >> # 36,028,797,018,963,967 occurrences >> >>=20 >> but this would overflow the Element Data Size of the Root Element >> >> # 36,028,797,018,963,968 occurrences >> >>=20 >> However, EBML allows the EBML Document Type to set an = EBMLMaxSizeLength value higher than 8, and as that is incremented up the = upper limit would expand exponentially. > I will try one more time: if I write an implementation that has = hardcoded limit of 8 would it be considered compliant with this = specification. I think asking to support arbitrary length values is a = big ask. Matroska, as a document type of EBML, does this. The draft for Matroska = has a section =E2=80=9CAdded Constraints on EBML=E2=80=9D that limits = EBMLMaxSizeLength to a range of 1-8 at = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-03#section-6.1 = = and that is reiterated in the EBML Schema for Matroska at = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-03#section-9.2 = . Though EBML does not limit the EBMLMaxSizeLength, the default value is 8 = (see = https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13.html#name-ebmlmaxsizelen= gth-element = ), so a document type definition would have to opt into a = >8 value if they felt as if it was needed. The fifth paragraph of = https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13.html#name-ebml-schema = = starting with "An EBML Schema MAY constrain the use of EBML Header = Elements=E2=80=9D discusses the scenario of using a non-default value = for EBMLMaxSizeLength in an EBML Schema that defines a EBML document = type. >> In my draft I would considering "no upper limit=E2=80=9D and = 36,028,797,018,963,967 to effectively be the same or that the definition = does not define the limit but in practice it would be limited by the = capacity of the Element Data Size of the parent Element. > I will let the document start IETF LC without this issue being fully = resolved, but I suspect it will come up again during IESG review. >=20 >>>>> 11.1.10.1. label >>>>>=20 >>>>> The label provides a concise expression for human consumption = that >>>>> describes what the value of the "" represents. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Is it worth adding a cross reference to the "lang" attribute here? >>>>=20 >>>> Do you mean to express the language of the term used within the = label? Currently the language of the label is undefined and since it is = an attribute that label is not repeatable. >>>=20 >>> To be honest I am not yet sure how I feel about "undefined language" = here. Need to think about that. >>> But either way, I think adding some text that "lang" attribute = doesn't apply would be helpful. >>=20 >> In the case of Matroska, the labels are in English. In the EBML = definition we could say that the labels are in English unless the = definition of that associated EBML Document Type claims otherwise. > Ok. >=20 >>>>> 12. Considerations for Reading EBML Data >>>>>=20 >>>>> If a Master Element contains a CRC-32 Element that doesn't = validate, >>>>> then the EBML Reader MAY ignore all contained data except for >>>>> Descendant Elements that contain their own valid CRC-32 Element. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I don't fully understand your use of "MAY ... except ..." here. >>>>> Can you elaborate on why would an implementation ignore data = contained in a Master Element and not ignore Descendant Elements, even = if they own CRC-32 is valid? >>>>=20 >>>> For instance if a Matroska file has three metadata tags and each = has a CRC value and so does the parent Tags element like this. >>>>=20 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> We=E2=80=99re trying to say that even though the contents of the = element is invalid, that the valid child elements may still be = used. >>> So to me this means that after discarding all invalid elements you = end up with something like this: >>>=20 >>> >>> >>> >>>=20 >>> As this is an incomplete document, I am struggling to understand = what it can be used for? >>=20 >> In that case, the valid Tags are still useful even if within a parent = element whos contents are invalid. Perhaps another example would be in = the Attachments Element: >>=20 >> >> Poster Art >> Subtitle Font >> >>=20 >> Here some bit damage occurs to the Poster Art so the Attachment and = its parent Attachments now have invalid crcs, however the subtitle font = is still ok and could be used in the presentation without an issue. > I suggest some examples along the lines of your reply should be added = to the document. This is not a property commonly found in IETF formats, = so talking more about it would be useful. I drafted an example at = https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/296 = . Thanks much, Dave Rice --Apple-Mail=_C90463EA-8D7E-4C89-AA95-9F4C237031A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Alexey,

On Oct 24, 2019, at 8:33 AM, Alexey Melnikov = <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Hi = Dave,

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 2:53 PM, = Dave Rice wrote:
On Jul 11, 2019, at 9:36 = AM, Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Hi Dave,
I removed comments where we are in = agreement. A few followups:

On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Dave = Rice wrote:
Hello Alexey,

Thanks much = for providing this thorough review. I=E2=80=99ll try to reply point by = point below with references to either pull requests or issues or offer = followup questions. In a few places I ping Steve Lhomme and Michael = Richardson as the comments relate to text they originated in their = work.

EBMLElementOccurrence    =3D = [EBMLMinOccurrence] "*" [EBMLMaxOccurrence]
EBMLMinOccurrence =        =3D 1*DIGIT
EBMLMaxOccurrence =        =3D 1*DIGIT

Are there any upper limits on allowed values for these = fields? Even if you don't encode them using ABNF, it would be good to = mention them in an ABNF comment.

VariableParentOccurrence =3D [PathMinOccurrence] "*" = [PathMaxOccurrence]
PathMinOccurrence =        =3D 1*DIGIT
PathMaxOccurrence =        =3D 1*DIGIT

Same comment as above.

I looked for examples of that sort = of commenting but didn=E2=80=99t find much guidance. Eventually I simply = appended " ; no upper limit=E2=80=9D to each of the four referenced = lines and added that to https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/265<= /a>.
I think this is the wrong fix. Is it = sufficient for an implementation to use 32 bit value to represent any of = these? 64 bit value?
"no upper limit" is not going to be = interoperable.

The smallest possible EBML Element is 2 = bytes (1 bytes Element ID, 1 byte Element Data Size, and 0 bytes of = Element Data). The upper limit of how many occurrences would be = determined by the limit of the Element Data Size of the Parent Element. = If the EBML Document has EBMLMaxSizeLength as the default of 8, = then the upper limit of an Element Data Size = is 72,057,594,037,927,934 bytes. Is the smallest possible Element = is 2 bytes, then the upper limit of that Element=E2=80=99s occurrence = would be 72,057,594,037,927,934 divided by two.

So = if EBMLMaxSizeLength =3D 8, then this is possible

<RootElement>
<TwoByteElement/> =  # 36,028,797,018,963,967 occurrences
</RootElement>

but this would overflow the Element = Data Size of the Root Element
<RootElement>
<TwoByteElement/>  # 36,028,797,018,963,968 = occurrences
</RootElement>

However, EBML allows the EBML Document Type to set = an EBMLMaxSizeLength value higher than 8, and as that is = incremented up the upper limit would expand exponentially.
I will try one more time: if I write = an implementation that has hardcoded limit of 8 would it be considered = compliant with this specification. I think asking to support arbitrary = length values is a big ask.


Though EBML does not = limit the EBMLMaxSizeLength, the default value is 8 (see https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13.html#name-ebm= lmaxsizelength-element), so a document type definition would have to = opt into a >8 value if they felt as if it was needed.

The fifth paragraph of https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13.html#name-ebm= l-schema starting with "An EBML Schema MAY constrain the use of = EBML Header Elements=E2=80=9D discusses the scenario of using a = non-default value for EBMLMaxSizeLength in an EBML Schema that defines a = EBML document type.

In my draft I would considering "no upper limit=E2=80=9D and = 36,028,797,018,963,967 to effectively be the same or that the definition = does not define the limit but in practice it would be limited by the = capacity of the Element Data Size of the parent Element.
I will let the document start IETF LC = without this issue being fully resolved, but I suspect it will come up = again during IESG review.

11.1.10.1. =  label

  The label provides a = concise expression for human consumption that
  describes what the value of the "<enum>" = represents.

Is it worth adding a cross reference = to the "lang" attribute here?

Do you mean to express the language = of the term used within the label? Currently the language of the label = is undefined and since it is an attribute that label is not = repeatable.

To be honest I am not yet sure how I feel about "undefined = language" here. Need to think about that.
But either = way, I think adding some text that "lang" attribute doesn't apply would = be helpful.

In the case of Matroska, the labels are = in English. In the EBML definition we could say that the labels are in = English unless the definition of that associated EBML Document Type = claims otherwise.
Ok.

12.  Considerations for Reading EBML Data

  If a Master Element contains a CRC-32 Element = that doesn't validate,
  then the EBML Reader MAY ignore all contained = data except for
  Descendant Elements that contain their own = valid CRC-32 Element.

I don't fully understand your use of = "MAY ... except ..." here.
Can = you elaborate on why would an implementation ignore data contained in a = Master Element and not ignore Descendant Elements, even if they own = CRC-32 is valid?

For instance if a = Matroska file has three metadata tags and each has a CRC value and so = does the parent Tags element like this.

<Tags = crc=3Dinvalid>
  <Tag = crc=3Dvalid>
  <Tag = crc=3Dvalid>
  <Tag = crc=3Dinvalid>
<Tags>

We=E2=80=99re trying to say that even though the contents = of the <Tags> element is invalid, that the valid child elements = may still be used.
So to me = this means that after discarding all invalid elements you end up with = something like this:

<Tags >
  = <Tag crc=3Dvalid>
</Tags>

As this is an incomplete document, I am struggling to understand = what it can be used for?

In that case, the valid = Tags are still useful even if within a parent element whos contents are = invalid. Perhaps another example would be in the Attachments Element:

<Attachments crc=3Dinvalid>
<Attachment crc=3Dinvalid>Poster = Art</Attachment>
<Attachment crc=3Dvalid>Subtitle = Font</Attachment>
</Attachments>

Here some bit damage occurs to the = Poster Art so the Attachment and its parent Attachments now have invalid = crcs, however the subtitle font is still ok and could be used in the = presentation without an issue.
I = suggest some examples along the lines of your reply should be added to = the document. This is not a property commonly found in IETF formats, so = talking more about it would be useful.

I drafted an example at https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/296.
Thanks much,
Dave Rice

= --Apple-Mail=_C90463EA-8D7E-4C89-AA95-9F4C237031A1-- From nobody Thu Oct 24 09:26:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5632B12011C for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QYYzdpfnJCVV for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8C45120113 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=20068 helo=[10.10.201.21]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iNfvx-000GyT-Dv; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:26:02 -0400 From: Dave Rice Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AFB65FDB-D988-4E64-AF70-B23D5C2CEF8D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:25:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org To: Alexey Melnikov References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] A few minor comments on draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:26:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AFB65FDB-D988-4E64-AF70-B23D5C2CEF8D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank you Alexey, > On Oct 24, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Alexey Melnikov = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Thank you for addressing most of my AD review comments. I followed up = on a few remaining issues in a separate thread. >=20 > I just reviewed changed since version -10 and have a few new minor = comments: >=20 > I think [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] should be a Normative = Reference, because of how it is referenced in Section 11.1.15. (I assume = the XML Schema there is normative.) >=20 > It would be good to have an example of in the = document. >=20 > In Section 11.1.5.8 the following test was added: >=20 > An unwritten mandatory > Element with a declared default value is semantically to that = Element >=20 > I think the word "equivalent" is missing after "semantically". >=20 > if written with the default value stored as the Element Data. >=20 > I would ask editors to address these in the next revision. I started a pull request to address the noted 3 issues (changing a = reference to normative, offering an implementation_note example, and = adding the missing word). See: = https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/297 = . > However the above are not serious enough to delay IETF LC, so I will = start it now. >=20 > Best Regards, > Alexey >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar --Apple-Mail=_AFB65FDB-D988-4E64-AF70-B23D5C2CEF8D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Thank= you Alexey,

On Oct 24, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Alexey Melnikov = <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Hi,
Thank you for addressing most of my AD review = comments. I followed up on a few remaining issues in a separate = thread.

I just reviewed changed since = version -10 and have a few new minor comments:

I think [W3C.REC-xmlschema-0-20041028] should be a Normative = Reference, because of how it is referenced in Section 11.1.15. (I assume = the XML Schema there is normative.)

It = would be good to have an example of <implementation_note> in the = document.

In Section 11.1.5.8 the following = test was added:

  An unwritten = mandatory
  Element with a declared default = value is semantically to that Element

I = think the word "equivalent" is missing after "semantically".

  if written with the default value = stored as the Element Data.

I would ask = editors to address these in the next = revision.

I = started a pull request to address the noted 3 issues (changing a = reference to normative, offering an implementation_note example, and = adding the missing word). See: https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/297.
However the above are not serious enough to = delay IETF LC, so I will start it now.

Best = Regards,
Alexey

_______________________________________________
Cellar mailing list
Cellar@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar

= --Apple-Mail=_AFB65FDB-D988-4E64-AF70-B23D5C2CEF8D-- From nobody Thu Oct 24 11:14:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F91612008F for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NukOL6pvI34P for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9881120044 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A483B3897C; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B74061F; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:14:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Alexey Melnikov" cc: cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <3835cda8-7bfb-4178-bec7-b0acff9327ba@www.fastmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Second AD review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 18:14:32 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> A decision as to who is the legitimate documentator of the (existing) >> "webm" DocType would be up to the IESG. > Is "webm" will be worked on in this WG? No, not unless Google shows up with it! WebM shares a container format with Matroska (being EBML), but we are not trying standard it. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl2x6gIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVw7wf+P4/tzAVh0L6l3Z39iytxRMrpjhUqVEhob3dqF5KFITTqm+al0bbuaciD sD1ht7uHVcd73OjCPFGAA8FyxjaeIqo9AVXLYsBigJog3AXAQ2V4Jq5cRNwJwiBO ZkN0yRRGTpNBhZAIQxx7/vKdrqUeNKNV42owmodgBOGXCx03DzxDjQH1nc/tZu5J FrqVb3XFc2EDiI6aGcGhbABOClsB/dxR3nUDzaihgJjiY74knCEyDxatpeFSj7Sl wbbi7M+N3dFvOf+cajMa8RN2LqgwjAUOzSxMji+GPtRpNnU4OI1zhUNybr7xAgHT EZI0ww9qPadyLWx75n62YPmKvujfnA== =NY1f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Oct 25 06:54:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBDA12010E for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:54:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dX-sJu3Gsn77 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2441120105 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id l10so2458768wrb.2 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:54:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=+Mt8gPyNsj3InS6DCI6ZnZAwxwXzOU6bgIJ8cwH9TnM=; b=JCO+o6MLHnlIx7GjnDblvu8QUVb5ugIM/4P6/U1kLBZ8T55GJWp72mUry2DENJuV5G NAc4qo7iEXaysHH1+sE0kgS3GMHgWZdu2I3Z5/4Mf1GIt8nGBUs0477mLQYrwZqxms73 9QqkvOVadc6KE4gLTUO7JF5l7zZj3uTwi458oXUhiqAqzOjEnQaFF/eKwAPn1ho0/AUD AzRSY7ilC3STPp93I0cAUxnz2F9gnWnOudu2hDxPJL/B4sH3qvatAf4SQvrSqf/pBOwF qqFNR3aZBliRIX+nwsK5jmxDypa7Xxx3uc2tq4ndQTLfIzz5da8pFelahUPQPIA5yhnY BAyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=+Mt8gPyNsj3InS6DCI6ZnZAwxwXzOU6bgIJ8cwH9TnM=; b=EyrzrU/EzBkas/27CvLYT3Gvz1YiGWS9nl75LA4fy9P6rQyxu2+N3VR3RPFTzhBLFz XfxQpW0c5buf0Z0bR+GGLJgRffoDViv7DCxAFegRBEYhiC3zxHwLBLfsgLm8pHIz69t4 9Ty8FK/bAUAVNmaEWX8jqdU9znryZsL0BdtfgvZQngIHlz3rHHdeOTHh21orU8hZZefC G16j2HjG+u7cXSe8cEnDYzpGI5XYW5bU4pTamFVY43mdWyZWWeLIrmuswgmj4Ee1RS0o 7gOPkJ4FjEBukCNARUiW0ri+mcA/bFeqD+YCNIRh8P/agkMUtpcCx650zIuIiPldg/oC OFHw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVLJzJZfrL3hVAJ9HD4CIHAuSU1+FDSbSqazGlmkUfbB6jctkUw jjbemAvHgBEKu/YXULXFTyxOTnrh X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyr0ONA0XqSxaaPJvbzCic+3FsEoe3CNCwWwwGtBvGgTWOwC31M1eIFSzsULk3hfzdiqBmA/g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:108:: with SMTP id o8mr3105191wrx.369.1572011653877; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([82.129.88.112]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r3sm2904093wre.29.2019.10.25.06.54.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:54:13 -0700 (PDT) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> <062ba800-3549-aec8-84c4-83c704465093@das-werkstatt.com> From: Derek Buitenhuis Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 14:54:12 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------072006DB1523A9B8527B3F56" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:54:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------072006DB1523A9B8527B3F56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 24/10/2019 11:13, Ashley Blewer wrote: > I am looking forward to Derek speaking about this topic at the upcoming No Time To Wait conference in early December. Peter, I know you'll be there so you'll get to see it -- and for everyone else following along, we offer a livestream of this conference and videos are added pretty quickly afterwards. This ^ > Dear Derek, > > Very interesting indeed! :D > > How was it to read and interpret the specs? > Anything unclear/missing? > You can take a gander at the open/closed issues on the FFV1 bug tracker :). - Derek --------------072006DB1523A9B8527B3F56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 24/10/2019 11:13, Ashley Blewer wrote:
I am looking forward to Derek speaking about this topic at the upcoming No Time To Wait conference in early December. Peter, I know you'll be there so you'll get to see it -- and for everyone else following along, we offer a livestream of this conference and videos are added pretty quickly afterwards.

This ^

Dear Derek,

Very interesting indeed! :D

How was it to read and interpret the specs?
Anything unclear/missing?

You can take a gander at the open/closed issues on the FFV1 bug tracker :).

- Derek

--------------072006DB1523A9B8527B3F56-- From nobody Fri Oct 25 08:37:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0A5120227 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 08:37:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=pZldxLxX; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=QV/QzFCW Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6rcRmyVdfR9z for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 08:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EE87120168 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 08:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26C422221; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 11:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap1 ([10.202.2.51]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 25 Oct 2019 11:37:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm1; bh=3YxIjoVCaf+DsPW8ONiDAv4obBRAaQd S0Q0mwrcId4U=; b=pZldxLxX3CZIGvYk6SJD1/L6zPBGqokFnLVxvNU64C5BdkZ Sgh1BbO4ihOIOUOUNCaj49tvexVVlRLKBro2zKZ1ghaXZainI/S1OOS74YaWozkK AObxCXarMJOkdY4DpFiT97iUAKG+hsgJ55IFVAZpx3UyLWCJd9kKJ+aLeusHl1Pm 9SJ0pmRfD9bi0Aq0yXUNqPZJk7uel6xHmddpn2Q7VjHyzFuNza5mQVzRKGkfkNKZ Y5RLQC+cTRpTDS3Rqqmad1TSvY9tRAp6sc40fjiho2z4TrC3y8FyZvd3WO4JGCQ0 ctvp/V5I+0+NBfZOcaSRu0TsGeO4u/ojg2BBO9A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=3YxIjo VCaf+DsPW8ONiDAv4obBRAaQdS0Q0mwrcId4U=; b=QV/QzFCWY86dc4+QhJjPI8 tHOfWXbcKwQ+P+RXSxedx7LB8/hepjOMed6lzg4UeVL5G1uxx0Yt27pVTVAKJlVO gruvV7kdJkQtelPBQsC70JXhsc6XPo79fmM9uKnR+MkFiB0MUCHuquEbk+OoAOMy PRbXHoIpBV6nmg9/uF76aLiS+piW7kAQ4PgPJ1s8fIkTYtai4t2RbBXHVRaATUu5 COW5FdcK65NQhBJyGlN6kS6tj++cogng8g856Mf5yaSbuY9wsip+CNbCkUPqdYb7 7GYwZz5ej3aH0U21+PPff8i73FBalmj+L4+t1z3TWQECvOi0mU5/8okcnA05KGoA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrleefgdeludcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtre dtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdetlhgvgigvhicuofgvlhhnihhkohhvfdcuoegrrghmvghl nhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe grrghmvghlnhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigv pedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id F1992C200A6; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 11:37:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-470-gedfae93-fmstable-20191021v4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <26528.1571940866@localhost> References: <3835cda8-7bfb-4178-bec7-b0acff9327ba@www.fastmail.com> <26528.1571940866@localhost> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:36:29 +0100 From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: "Michael Richardson" Cc: cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Second AD review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:37:07 -0000 Hi Michael, On Thu, Oct 24, 2019, at 7:14 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> A decision as to who is the legitimate documentator of the (existing) > >> "webm" DocType would be up to the IESG. > > > Is "webm" will be worked on in this WG? > > No, not unless Google shows up with it! > WebM shares a container format with Matroska (being EBML), but we are not > trying standard it. So the IANA policy for this entry would be IESG Approval or RFC Required. Why do you want IESG to be involved in the decision to remove "Reserved" for "webm"? I would rather have Expert Review here, so that IESG doesn't need to decide. If the WG has good reasons for IESG to be involved, that is fine. But I would like to understand the reason(s) first. Also, I just realized that the IANA registration policy for "ELLAR EBML DocType Registry" is not very clear. Does the WG want "IESG Approval" or "RFC Required" be applied to the whole registry or just to the 2 reserved values? The current text seems to be saying the latter. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Sun Oct 27 07:38:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AF612009C; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157218713187.17168.15476833594697998207@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:38:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:38:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : Matroska Specifications Authors : Steve Lhomme Moritz Bunkus Dave Rice Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt Pages : 163 Date : 2019-10-27 Abstract: This document defines the Matroska audiovisual container, including definitions of its structural elements, as well as its terminology, vocabulary, and application. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-matroska/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Oct 27 07:40:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC93A12009E; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:40:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157218721393.17301.5976534954664467877@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:40:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-tags-03.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:40:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : Matroska Tags Authors : Steve Lhomme Moritz Bunkus Dave Rice Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-tags-03.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2019-10-27 Abstract: This document defines the Matroska tags, namely the tag names and their respective semantic meaning. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-tags/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-tags-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-tags-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-tags-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Oct 27 07:48:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E1712009C; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:48:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157218771075.17192.571228850029640364@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 07:48:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 14:48:31 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : Matroska Codec Authors : Steve Lhomme Moritz Bunkus Dave Rice Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt Pages : 46 Date : 2019-10-27 Abstract: This document defines the Matroska codec mappings, including the codec ID, layout of data in a "Block Element" and in an optional "CodecPrivate Element". The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-codec/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Oct 27 08:00:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35162120133 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:00:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pTaMQxXkqFB4 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E1DD120131 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.infomaniak.ch (smtp6.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.19]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9RF0DXn028892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:00:14 +0100 Received: from Castor (dynamic.wline.6rd.res.cust.swisscom.ch [IPv6:2a02:1203:ecbb:e730:7df0:0:44d4:e420] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp6.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9RF0Cli036495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:00:13 +0100 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:00:14 +0100 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <157218771075.17192.571228850029640364@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:00:19 -0000 internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Title : Matroska Codec > Authors : Steve Lhomme > Moritz Bunkus > Dave Rice > Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt > Pages : 46 > Date : 2019-10-27 The pages 8 and 45 are not rendered correctly in the PDF version. Best regards, Reto AV Preservation by reto.ch chemin du Suchet 5 | 1024 Ecublens | Switzerland Web: | Twitter: @retoch From nobody Sun Oct 27 08:05:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF51212018D for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:05:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1OazzOuvLU3 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 863D4120086 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp8.infomaniak.ch (smtp8.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.38]) by smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x9RF5dhg003654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:05:39 +0100 Received: from Castor (dynamic.wline.6rd.res.cust.swisscom.ch [IPv6:2a02:1203:ecbb:e730:7df0:0:44d4:e420] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp8.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9RF5bem025429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:05:38 +0100 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:05:38 +0100 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <157218713187.17168.15476833594697998207@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:05:47 -0000 internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Title : Matroska Specifications > Authors : Steve Lhomme > Moritz Bunkus > Dave Rice > Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt > Pages : 163 > Date : 2019-10-27 The pages 142-143 are not rendered correctly in the PDF version. Best regards, Reto From nobody Sun Oct 27 08:08:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F34212012A for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:08:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WrGf8OHebFpY for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C22E6120123 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-104-162-94-162.nyc.res.rr.com ([104.162.94.162]:35478 helo=[10.0.1.6]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iOk9W-002G25-6X; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:08:26 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AEEC3107-A126-4F05-A6D1-8D99EA229E7C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) From: Dave Rice X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:08:20 -0400 Cc: cellar@ietf.org Message-Id: <495D6A90-5158-4D5E-8781-1C7966170C40@dericed.com> References: To: Reto Kromer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:08:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AEEC3107-A126-4F05-A6D1-8D99EA229E7C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Oct 27, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Reto Kromer wrote: >=20 > internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >> Title : Matroska Codec >> Authors : Steve Lhomme >> Moritz Bunkus >> Dave Rice >> Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt >> Pages : 46 >> Date : 2019-10-27 >=20 > The pages 8 and 45 are not rendered correctly in the PDF > version. This issue with the datatracker is reported at = https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/444 = . Dave= --Apple-Mail=_AEEC3107-A126-4F05-A6D1-8D99EA229E7C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On = Oct 27, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Reto Kromer <lists@reto.ch> = wrote:

internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

=       Title =           : Matroska = Codec
      Authors =         : Steve Lhomme
=             &n= bsp;           Mori= tz Bunkus
=             &n= bsp;           Dave= Rice
 Filename =        : = draft-ietf-cellar-codec-03.txt
 Pages =           : 46
 Date =            : = 2019-10-27

The pages 8 and 45 = are not rendered correctly in the PDF
version.

This issue with the datatracker is reported at https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/444.<= /div>
Dave
= --Apple-Mail=_AEEC3107-A126-4F05-A6D1-8D99EA229E7C-- From nobody Sun Oct 27 08:08:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8746120123 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:08:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EpurjH9JpeHY for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94397120086 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-104-162-94-162.nyc.res.rr.com ([104.162.94.162]:35478 helo=[10.0.1.6]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iOk9d-002G25-Le; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:08:34 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9678A3E6-C0EB-409B-9011-59A1AF9AEEB5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) From: Dave Rice X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:08:29 -0400 Cc: cellar@ietf.org Message-Id: References: To: Reto Kromer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:08:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9678A3E6-C0EB-409B-9011-59A1AF9AEEB5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Oct 27, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Reto Kromer wrote: >=20 > internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >> Title : Matroska Specifications >> Authors : Steve Lhomme >> Moritz Bunkus >> Dave Rice >> Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt >> Pages : 163 >> Date : 2019-10-27 >=20 > The pages 142-143 are not rendered correctly in the PDF version. This issue with the datatracker is reported at = https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/444 = . Dave= --Apple-Mail=_9678A3E6-C0EB-409B-9011-59A1AF9AEEB5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On Oct 27, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Reto Kromer <lists@reto.ch> = wrote:

internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

=       Title =           : Matroska = Specifications
=       Authors =         : Steve Lhomme
=             &n= bsp;           Mori= tz Bunkus
=             &n= bsp;           Dave= Rice
 Filename =        : = draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt
 Pages =           : 163
 Date =            : = 2019-10-27

The pages 142-143 = are not rendered correctly in the PDF version.

This issue with the datatracker is reported at https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/444.<= /div>
Dave
= --Apple-Mail=_9678A3E6-C0EB-409B-9011-59A1AF9AEEB5-- From nobody Sun Oct 27 08:13:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8374A120123 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ge0C3idf0d98 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 578EB120086 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.infomaniak.ch (smtp6.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.19]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9RFDhR1004186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:13:44 +0100 Received: from Castor (dynamic.wline.6rd.res.cust.swisscom.ch [IPv6:2a02:1203:ecbb:e730:7df0:0:44d4:e420] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp6.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9RFDgm9020836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:13:43 +0100 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 16:13:43 +0100 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-04.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 15:13:48 -0000 Dave Rice wrote: >This issue with the datatracker is reported at=20 >https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/xml2rfc/trac/ticket/444 . >Dave Thank you for the information! Best regards, Reto From nobody Tue Oct 29 09:04:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611FC120073 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:04:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PYDaToXyfFiH for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FE0A12002F for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=46559 helo=[10.10.201.21]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iPTyf-0016s7-Q6; Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:04:18 -0400 From: Dave Rice Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AA62B11B-49B9-49CD-AB71-A6C163408D8F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:04:07 -0400 Message-Id: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> To: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] matroska and side data vs timecode X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 16:04:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AA62B11B-49B9-49CD-AB71-A6C163408D8F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi cellar working group, I wanted to share some recent and ongoing developments within = https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification = . Some background of recent Matroska side data work: Recently a pull request at = https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/pull/287 was merged = into the Matroska specification which adds a structure to identify, = store, and describe side data to Matroska frames. This adds a block = mapping to the TrackEntry that identifies the side data to a registry = entry such as: {arbitrary value used to link BlockAddID (see the = Cluster below) } {a human readable name for that side data}. = {a registered ID for that type of side data} = { some data, probably an audio or video frame } {arbitrary value used to link BlockAddIDValue (see = above) } { insert side data here, if the BlockAddID value = is >=3D2 then look up what the data is in the BlockAdditionMapping } = Within BlockMore, if the BlockAddID =3D 1 then the Codec Mapping defines = what is within BlockAdditional as side data, but if the BlockAddID is = >=3D2, then the identity of the BlockAdditional side data is defined = within the BlockAdditionalMapping of the associated TrackEntry. Active work on Matroska and timecode: I drafted a pull request at = https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/pull/348 that builds = upon the new side data structure defined above. This pull request = registers a BlockAddIDType for a 64 bit binary expression of timecode as = defined by SMPTE ST12-1:2014 (which is mostly hours, minutes, seconds, = frames, a drop frame flag, and other a few other flags and binary = groups). This would allow timecode to be associated with Matroska frames = such as: =20 2 SMPTE ST 12-1 timecode 121 { a video frame } 2 { SMPTE ST12-1:2014 64-bit binary representation = of a 07:32:54;18 } { the next video frame } 2 { SMPTE ST12-1:2014 64-bit binary representation = of a 07:32:54;19 } With the BlockAdditions, BlockMore, BlockAddID, and BlockAdditional = Elements, I think this would add 18 bytes per timecode expression. = Adding timecode to one hour of PAL video (25 frames * 3600 seconds/hour) = would add about 1.5 MB to the file. Implementation Considerations: Thinking ahead of this work, I think it would be worthwhile to add a = dedicated section to the Matroska specification on timecode and describe = two methods for adding a reference timecode to a Matroska Segment. 1. Using tags. Make an official tag =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D to store = a string of the timecode expression that correlates to the Matroska = timestamp of 0. This approach is limited to storing timecode that is = incremental and continuous. Defaults for the incrementation and the = behavior of the timecode could be described as part of the tag = definitions and feasibly another tag or tags could be reserved for = timecode flags when the timecode behavior is not a default. Defining a = use of a =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D tag would provide the benefit of = standardizing an existing practice in FFmpeg=E2=80=99s Matroska muxer, = where rewrapping from a timecode-supportive format to Matroska carries = the timecode value over as a tag. 2. Using BlockAdditions as described above. This adds more overhead as = each timecode value would be written, but would support non-continuous = timecode. In FFmpeg, timecode is sometimes carried as side-data such as = from the decklink device via = https://git.ffmpeg.org/gitweb/ffmpeg.git/commit/0946c0ec177dc48ef0677f890a= a42d95e667c417 = . I=E2=80=99d be interested if the Block Addition = Mapping described above could be used to carry the timecode side data = from the decklink device (or other incoming stream with timecode side = data) and store the result within the written Matroska BlockGroups. Comments welcome. Thanks much, Dave Rice= --Apple-Mail=_AA62B11B-49B9-49CD-AB71-A6C163408D8F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = cellar working group,

I wanted to share = some recent and ongoing developments within https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification.

Some = background of recent Matroska side data work:

Recently a pull request at https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/pull/287 was merged into the Matroska specification which adds = a structure to identify, store, and describe side data to Matroska = frames. This adds a block mapping to the TrackEntry that identifies the = side data to a registry entry such as:

<Segment>
 <!-- skipped elements here = -->
 <Tracks>
  <!-- lots of other track data here = -->
  <TrackEntry>
   <BlockAdditionMapping>
    <BlockAddIDValue> {arbitrary = value used to link BlockAddID (see the Cluster below) } = </BlockAddIDValue>
    = <BlockAddIDName>  {a human readable name for that side data}. =   </BlockAddIDName>
    = <BlockAddIDType>  {a registered ID for that type of side = data}  </BlockAddIDType>
  =  </BlockAdditionMapping>
 </Tracks>
 <!-- then within the Cluster which = stores audiovisual data within frames in Blocks, there is -->
 <Cluster>
  <BlockGroup>
   <Block> = { some data, probably an audio or video frame } = </Block>
   <BlockAdditions>
    = <BlockMore>
     <BlockAddID> {arbitrary value used to = link BlockAddIDValue (see above) } </BlockAddID>
     <BlockAdditional> = { insert side data here, if the BlockAddID value is >=3D2 then look = up what the data is in the BlockAdditionMapping } </BlockAdditional>
    = </BlockMore>
   </BlockAdditions>
  = </BlockGroup>
 </Cluster>
</Segment>

Within BlockMore, if the = BlockAddID =3D 1 then the Codec Mapping defines what is within = BlockAdditional as side data, but if the BlockAddID is >=3D2, then = the identity of the BlockAdditional side data is defined within the = BlockAdditionalMapping of the associated TrackEntry.

Active = work on Matroska and timecode:

I drafted a pull request at https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/pull/348 that builds upon the new side data structure defined above. This = pull request registers a BlockAddIDType for a 64 bit binary expression = of timecode as defined by SMPTE ST12-1:2014 (which is mostly hours, = minutes, seconds, frames, a drop frame flag, and other a few other flags = and binary groups). This would allow timecode to be associated with = Matroska frames such as:

<Segment>
 <!-- skipped = elements here --> 
 <Tracks>
  <!-- lots of other track data here = -->
  <TrackEntry>
   <BlockAdditionMapping>
    = <BlockAddIDValue>2</BlockAddIDValue>
  =   <BlockAddIDName>SMPTE ST 12-1 = timecode</BlockAddIDName>
    = <BlockAddIDType>121</BlockAddIDType>
  =  </BlockAdditionMapping>
 </Tracks>
 <!-- then within the Cluster which = stores audiovisual data within frames in Blocks, there is -->
 <Cluster>
  <BlockGroup>
   <Block> = { a video frame } </Block>
  =  <BlockAdditions>
    = <BlockMore>
     <BlockAddID>2</BlockAddID>
     <BlockAdditional> = { SMPTE ST12-1:2014 64-bit binary representation of = a 07:32:54;18 } </BlockAdditional>
    = </BlockMore>
   </BlockAdditions>
  = </BlockGroup>
  <BlockGroup>
   <Block> = { the next video frame } </Block>
  =  <BlockAdditions>
    = <BlockMore>
     <BlockAddID>2</BlockAddID>
     <BlockAdditional> = { SMPTE = ST12-1:2014 64-bit binary representation of = a 07:32:54;19 } </BlockAdditional>
    = </BlockMore>
   </BlockAdditions>
  = </BlockGroup>
 </Cluster>
</Segment>

With the = BlockAdditions, BlockMore, BlockAddID, and BlockAdditional Elements, I = think this would add 18 bytes per timecode expression. Adding timecode = to one hour of PAL video (25 frames * 3600 seconds/hour) would add about = 1.5 MB to the file.

Implementation Considerations:

Thinking ahead of this = work, I think it would be worthwhile to add a dedicated section to the = Matroska specification on timecode and describe two methods for adding a = reference timecode to a Matroska Segment.

1. Using tags. Make an official tag = =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D to store a string of the timecode expression = that correlates to the Matroska timestamp of 0. This approach is limited = to storing timecode that is incremental and continuous. Defaults for the = incrementation and the behavior of the timecode could be described as = part of the tag definitions and feasibly another tag or tags could be = reserved for timecode flags when the timecode behavior is not a default. = Defining a use of a =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D tag would provide the = benefit of standardizing an existing practice in FFmpeg=E2=80=99s = Matroska muxer, where rewrapping from a timecode-supportive format to = Matroska carries the timecode value over as a tag.

2. Using BlockAdditions = as described above. This adds more overhead as each timecode value would = be written, but would support non-continuous timecode. In FFmpeg, = timecode is sometimes carried as side-data such as from the decklink = device via https://git.ffmpeg.org/gitweb/ffmpeg.git/commit/0946c0ec177dc48= ef0677f890aa42d95e667c417. I=E2=80=99d be interested if the Block = Addition Mapping described above could be used to carry the timecode = side data from the decklink device (or other incoming stream with = timecode side data) and store the result within the written Matroska = BlockGroups.

Comments welcome.

Thanks much,
Dave = Rice
= --Apple-Mail=_AA62B11B-49B9-49CD-AB71-A6C163408D8F-- From nobody Wed Oct 30 08:03:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A34120C4C for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:03:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02vx-KS5oi5v for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0B1B120C48 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id s1so2717188wro.0 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:02:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=nWvoEVQrGYdA2WtRtJHzDHWP7a2xw7fbb/UveXwHAKQ=; b=io395yPkIU80BMrLTmV62bhQMDZdN3xyG+c026gERnOLtjUIRPNpFLepwtUOAawQnI YVEqssuzyKc0hq2ljzgSsYtBPBBJBi0IBNOFTaw4toq9R1MAPJbjgsBHc8DMDUpiIITJ qpGdCTRtEFdtAozP47Ht2aEspDCJZzgYvdOTsX3O00PIMsZAmgC1biVrxJ9uAZQPrqDs BjT1E2mDN6BCDsy0n1uAVJdo2IoDmzCu0NxywCimDhZ5iGrbZP6gE4X9WVmJ9V3YLqZH r8JuffLTyR8ygwd37TxFqzKegUi7ARAQrdAIF8yoJwN2uq/YwrNIZ5tEcoO7Ut2mIoAV mpsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=nWvoEVQrGYdA2WtRtJHzDHWP7a2xw7fbb/UveXwHAKQ=; b=rITS2MA8dLTmEU2EAEwEH3Oy1SurR9tiLAgFuLiD/d0ANJERVJ1D19qw8ZKa/7n0jY 1I3PwrcSYOm4Nv6mSJSLq8c2qTXvkIf49NbEU9rFCp3eGgq5j7f3b+4xHfondwoTrZz+ Oxq57sCDv6zfHMVxAR4bl9ZI/EH/dz6vjtllWUm/qdqzml45X3xIkZaCr7Nq7OfkZus2 ol+GWHMbeWQYKz81Xam2hBMGXp30AljfPqJS5AKotMiQDoNAdDg+PvoQUJS11XzJuJ62 pS4w16Ibs1nTyM0Ey6Up4qeDeMAgrRy7SQBS1tr9QkhaLGgHn4oG8ShlVNuUZOXRCrCp UpYw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXKKVDxMkZk0DZ7hEJ6CcNU32bfApiVyA46B4Fof2xg2dTaApDV ACBQsPN6vCzomu38uQpNwEco+6CD X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyl4qiRvAh8Dx8sunUOohAHOOeyQm8nEn80YNuzMKl0/oUXuwZQaqUjxT8h9AqUGUsndyz5tQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e651:: with SMTP id b17mr254390wrn.191.1572447768934; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([82.129.88.112]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g10sm532110wrr.28.2019.10.30.08.02.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:02:48 -0700 (PDT) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> From: Derek Buitenhuis Message-ID: <40b8c32e-9136-af70-e844-b9e9f2e1c75a@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:02:48 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------324CFAC324819F6C89E8A3BA" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] matroska and side data vs timecode X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:03:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------324CFAC324819F6C89E8A3BA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Comments inlined below. On 29/10/2019 16:04, Dave Rice wrote: > _Implementation Considerations:_ > > Thinking ahead of this work, I think it would be worthwhile to add a dedicated section to the Matroska specification on timecode and describe two methods for adding a reference timecode to a Matroska Segment. > > 1. Using tags. Make an official tag “TIMECODE” to store a string of the timecode expression that correlates to the Matroska timestamp of 0. This approach is limited to storing timecode that is incremental and continuous. Defaults for the incrementation and the behavior of the timecode could be described as part of the tag definitions and feasibly another tag or tags could be reserved for timecode flags when the timecode behavior is not a default. Defining a use of a “TIMECODE” tag would provide the benefit of standardizing an existing practice in FFmpeg’s Matroska muxer, where rewrapping from a timecode-supportive format to Matroska carries the timecode value over as a tag. To me, requiring timecodes to be incremental and continuous pretty much defeats a good chunk of the point of timecodes, no? > 2. Using BlockAdditions as described above. This adds more overhead as each timecode value would be written, but would support non-continuous timecode. In FFmpeg, timecode is sometimes carried as side-data such as from the decklink device via https://git.ffmpeg.org/gitweb/ffmpeg.git/commit/0946c0ec177dc48ef0677f890aa42d95e667c417. I’d be interested if the Block Addition Mapping described above could be used to carry the timecode side data from the decklink device (or other incoming stream with timecode side data) and store the result within the written Matroska BlockGroups. As long as it's an optional element, I don't see a downside to the small overhead - especially considering the large size of many/most mezzanines that carry timecodes. Unrelated to the above two comments: How do you intent to rectify the historical (and confusing) use of 'timecode' in Matroska to be timestamp with the newly introduced timecode functionality? Cheers, - Derek --------------324CFAC324819F6C89E8A3BA Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Comments inlined below.

On 29/10/2019 16:04, Dave Rice wrote:
Implementation Considerations:

Thinking ahead of this work, I think it would be worthwhile to add a dedicated section to the Matroska specification on timecode and describe two methods for adding a reference timecode to a Matroska Segment.

1. Using tags. Make an official tag “TIMECODE” to store a string of the timecode expression that correlates to the Matroska timestamp of 0. This approach is limited to storing timecode that is incremental and continuous. Defaults for the incrementation and the behavior of the timecode could be described as part of the tag definitions and feasibly another tag or tags could be reserved for timecode flags when the timecode behavior is not a default. Defining a use of a “TIMECODE” tag would provide the benefit of standardizing an existing practice in FFmpeg’s Matroska muxer, where rewrapping from a timecode-supportive format to Matroska carries the timecode value over as a tag.

To me, requiring timecodes to be incremental and continuous pretty much defeats a good chunk of the point of timecodes, no?

2. Using BlockAdditions as described above. This adds more overhead as each timecode value would be written, but would support non-continuous timecode. In FFmpeg, timecode is sometimes carried as side-data such as from the decklink device via https://git.ffmpeg.org/gitweb/ffmpeg.git/commit/0946c0ec177dc48ef0677f890aa42d95e667c417. I’d be interested if the Block Addition Mapping described above could be used to carry the timecode side data from the decklink device (or other incoming stream with timecode side data) and store the result within the written Matroska BlockGroups.

As long as it's an optional element, I don't see a downside to the small overhead - especially considering the large size of many/most mezzanines that carry timecodes.

Unrelated to the above two comments: How do you intent to rectify the historical (and confusing) use of 'timecode' in Matroska to be timestamp with the newly introduced timecode functionality?

Cheers,
- Derek

--------------324CFAC324819F6C89E8A3BA-- From nobody Wed Oct 30 08:40:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB89120A8F for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RcyL1dNyvtGv for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82f.google.com (mail-qt1-x82f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E95C1209A8 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id e14so3852799qto.1 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=tU0z8ilftdznqfq/Kaslvn6t6J90O+e91DNfYkG6ZCI=; b=a8PfQ+9neHOoPCVJhjjFCgpPC5Bh/HhY422P56GLaIdIu5TrhZdNldmdsqwWeWv0Wc 8iKtTTwmysjzrN9r7V+DPM1Yw2GsfgdMzumRVR7tqJj5ag6qcy6YsQUT7IXeKM8Ztyo6 Yc0HUgYXzYmj2yBDUEizuUDQQbh2Giux2j1Wxf4LrDuqzDX+cwK9BdGhmggCsbVJmb8l vyyGqoOBd4PlL4mEEQArTUDEmHutUTtBgDUM7DBTGMBZPPEpvjEjogdBknti8jlI6D7K lK/S0kIEJH4g8SCobVVzwCA1YJJZtsB79gAtTIhmwlN85D7tz7SDW29nqOsGbMCWFrHK O/hQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=tU0z8ilftdznqfq/Kaslvn6t6J90O+e91DNfYkG6ZCI=; b=A7vQkM/NSrlM2ktdM7NndJ9MrymCsFQVF/Q9zR9VmHIHWR9k1/GBvyI+m1zQJTcvbI gI8OvM/A4ijYTxZk/mROwiLXXrrv6VJijD+XH4zIGmkvDJCwT/KzPZ/5NkwvG+O0tGik 9sEb1E2MmOu6uBO78PZEaxyLdjNQc9aziADxKwcTFG8zD7gXfMAKHDOoQLjPWvA0PiqZ 34WBzb/rzQScWR2Nb2SUQfMeDlvThQnT9lsaG1J8v9oLodsQO8DuwfdQ+bkAaXULyZJ4 HG+Ql5sAEDXcME5bHvzfpJEHCarI/ecQ0oEUcPmbf7zyRP9Mv2/e7B3EOmJNM4v5c2Sb G7Xg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWxii7BcPPJnxzstpJISvy9nx7XYnh0iP4bx4KNdBmV2QcrEMDj QVV0ENc2q9lwjepdG1sUxtcNyRv7K9MzW07JIQUG2MY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw/AV6iGcTLVVPPrWJ4sSMfxwGde7/ibzlfWrIxMNtDdDrjAJJedGOTScv8G5UdMjuqxTgml0O/EEB1ynKLvRs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:10e4:: with SMTP id q4mr21028097qvt.59.1572449999308; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:39:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> <40b8c32e-9136-af70-e844-b9e9f2e1c75a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <40b8c32e-9136-af70-e844-b9e9f2e1c75a@gmail.com> From: Kieran O Leary Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:39:46 +0000 Message-ID: To: Derek Buitenhuis , cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a2cbae0596228b43" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] matroska and side data vs timecode X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:40:07 -0000 --000000000000a2cbae0596228b43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Derek On Wed, 30 Oct 2019, 15:03 Derek Buitenhuis, wrote: > Comments inlined below. > > On 29/10/2019 16:04, Dave Rice wrote: > > *Implementation Considerations:* > > Thinking ahead of this work, I think it would be worthwhile to add a > dedicated section to the Matroska specification on timecode and describe > two methods for adding a reference timecode to a Matroska Segment. > > 1. Using tags. Make an official tag =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D to store a= string of the > timecode expression that correlates to the Matroska timestamp of 0. This > approach is limited to storing timecode that is incremental and continuou= s. > Defaults for the incrementation and the behavior of the timecode could be > described as part of the tag definitions and feasibly another tag or tags > could be reserved for timecode flags when the timecode behavior is not a > default. Defining a use of a =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D tag would provide= the benefit of > standardizing an existing practice in FFmpeg=E2=80=99s Matroska muxer, wh= ere > rewrapping from a timecode-supportive format to Matroska carries the > timecode value over as a tag. > > To me, requiring timecodes to be incremental and continuous pretty much > defeats a good chunk of the point of timecodes, no? > Kind of, but all tape capture software that I've encountered just stores the starting timecode value along with framerate and all other timecodes are based on this starting value. So it won't represent the source videotape if there's a timecode jump or reset. But the method that Dave outlines here would at least allow Matroska to mirror what happens with Aja/blackmagic capture tools using v210/mov as the capture format. It's very difficult to find tools or examples of noncontinuous timecode tracks.. Best, Kieran O'Leary Irish Film Institute --000000000000a2cbae0596228b43 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Derek

On Wed, 30 Oct 2019, 15:03 Derek Buitenhuis, = <derek.buitenhuis@gmail.co= m> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Comments inlined below.

On 29/10/2019 16:04, Dave Rice wrote:
=20
Implementation Considerations:

Thinking ahead of this work, I think it would be worthwhile to add a dedicated section to the Matroska specification on timecode and describe two methods for adding a reference timecode to a Matroska Segment.

1. Using tags. Make an official tag =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D t= o store a string of the timecode expression that correlates to the Matroska timestamp of 0. This approach is limited to storing timecode that is incremental and continuous. Defaults for the incrementation and the behavior of the timecode could be described as part of the tag definitions and feasibly another tag or tags could be reserved for timecode flags when the timecode behavior is not a default. Defining a use of a =E2=80=9CTIMECODE=E2=80=9D tag would provide the benefit of standar= dizing an existing practice in FFmpeg=E2=80=99s Matroska muxer, where rewrapp= ing from a timecode-supportive format to Matroska carries the timecode value over as a tag.

To me, requiring timecodes to be incremental and continuous pretty much defeats a good chunk of the point of timecodes, no?

Kind of, but all tape ca= pture software that I've encountered just stores the starting timecode = value along with framerate and all other timecodes are based on this starti= ng value. So it won't represent the source videotape if there's a t= imecode jump or reset. But the method that Dave outlines here would at leas= t allow Matroska to mirror what happens with Aja/blackmagic capture tools u= sing v210/mov as the capture format.
It's very d= ifficult to find tools or examples of noncontinuous timecode tracks..
=

Best,
=
Kieran O'Leary
Irish= Film Institute
--000000000000a2cbae0596228b43-- From nobody Wed Oct 30 08:50:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBD512002F for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:50:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fjHuwdJE4J4Z for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEBB9120019 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id l10so2895423wrb.2 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:50:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=DVOOT5bEyLkPCxcguVNx4iWflPsRty7BJfGhGsWtJsY=; b=o0/9oY2ghIOVwgaAQX8YdICh6BSElawDHbRocu60D/jNsl1RsnEQ0mCNdkdWoi9HUr hhxbq5CSstSWSkez69sq2NnQAOQZOPCmk7MqLt/iaQQtc33bjIMzrghcjzMGdFqYL+fW 7P8ZVIVFTuLLxa7j0oaBoNNIkqArnma4cHvWpJEUx2/Pt6RuNb/CHBYULqJjODFdKhDW hFOwSSvhG3Mm0xARrAJAqwKC5A7AHVKJ8BX2RsZ+Ojjb0w9T2R74PppLqRSK4aao+aKT 8J5Y3jTg1woR4SzaDr0VZfsxEwlTFwTErUAl8t9Dq7BO2oOSnK+926MsAyP9dPe/VJ55 ondw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=DVOOT5bEyLkPCxcguVNx4iWflPsRty7BJfGhGsWtJsY=; b=jrBMMyavHc2dndAgJVx7osd4n2Ugn7O7VEDBZOpKEXCKl95uvLX9u8FXJ5+EjI1hCr FGXUv+uOvkZ0gRvT12upuH/vQeCfzH40X2kNbJNOmekvr6oSf+5yrPYc2ZVTpW28Lzvf iBr4fV/u/rN3uHiONvQX9QJFwGSPUQU33Jzz1LbY9CFA5LboSUUeaES9l7tma5KM9oKU BdNMN6/JWlOQ77rhKToFJgO26TpHLdzmulxfCAqQGyV5rVxUEli7OB43kILIj2Bohi1n RMjiO5jh/JV4HcHD49G1vmHqaqd6kqf+ttDW/PlvwQ44B68/xK56sYYezfw5cTz5tO0C WAKw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVAH1X3Pz5KfZjYf0jaIxRkTmPVZSaMccoWQeoNzYYDGueLkCig Yww5ItIOM8c365Uab8lY15iEKgpW X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxH19Ij4hFyDPNTaj/muijcLa/HUMc20nTcSy89AfJti67fTaupsrpq8uW1Gae2DiDbw8kAUw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:4f:: with SMTP id k15mr470055wrx.137.1572450600027; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([82.129.88.112]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a13sm690392wrf.73.2019.10.30.08.49.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Oct 2019 08:49:59 -0700 (PDT) To: Kieran O Leary , cellar@ietf.org References: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> <40b8c32e-9136-af70-e844-b9e9f2e1c75a@gmail.com> From: Derek Buitenhuis Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:49:59 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------88B8F162ADC75EB050368E5D" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] matroska and side data vs timecode X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:50:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------88B8F162ADC75EB050368E5D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 30/10/2019 15:39, Kieran O Leary wrote: > Kind of, but all tape capture software that I've encountered just stores the starting timecode value along with framerate and all other timecodes are based on this starting value. So it won't represent the source videotape if there's a timecode jump or reset. But the method that Dave outlines here would at least allow Matroska to mirror what happens with Aja/blackmagic capture tools using v210/mov as the capture format. > It's very difficult to find tools or examples of noncontinuous timecode tracks.. An example would be a digitally produced (in an NLE) mezzanine from a number of ingested sources, where its timecodes map to the timecods in the original sources - I've seen this used fairly often to facilitate figuring out where a particular edit may come from in a final export or mezzanine. I would need to dig up which NLEs, specifically, produce these. Cheers, - Derek --------------88B8F162ADC75EB050368E5D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 30/10/2019 15:39, Kieran O Leary wrote:
Kind of, but all tape capture software that I've encountered just stores the starting timecode value along with framerate and all other timecodes are based on this starting value. So it won't represent the source videotape if there's a timecode jump or reset. But the method that Dave outlines here would at least allow Matroska to mirror what happens with Aja/blackmagic capture tools using v210/mov as the capture format.
It's very difficult to find tools or examples of noncontinuous timecode tracks..

An example would be a digitally produced (in an NLE) mezzanine from a number of ingested sources, where its timecodes map to the timecods in the original sources - I've seen this used fairly often to facilitate figuring out where a particular edit may come from in a final export or mezzanine.

I would need to dig up which NLEs, specifically, produce these.

Cheers,
- Derek


--------------88B8F162ADC75EB050368E5D-- From nobody Wed Oct 30 09:08:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725DC1200B4 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S4dEZKe-DJ3b for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB2E4120113 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=7306 helo=[10.10.201.21]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iPqWO-002MYX-HK; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:08:37 -0400 From: Dave Rice Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_319CA198-99FB-44C5-95C9-A0CBFFBFC262" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:08:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: Kieran O Leary , cellar@ietf.org To: Derek Buitenhuis References: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> <40b8c32e-9136-af70-e844-b9e9f2e1c75a@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] matroska and side data vs timecode X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 16:08:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_319CA198-99FB-44C5-95C9-A0CBFFBFC262 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 30, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Derek Buitenhuis = wrote: >=20 > On 30/10/2019 15:39, Kieran O Leary wrote: >> Kind of, but all tape capture software that I've encountered just = stores the starting timecode value along with framerate and all other = timecodes are based on this starting value. This is most of my experience as well when transferring as well, but to = QuickTime files, where a timecode track stores a single sample value and = some properties to define the incrementation. These timecode tracks are = limited since they are based upon a single value but very easy to edit, = whereas storing timecode per frame would require edits throughout the = file to (for instance) apply an offset to the entire timecode track. Still I like the idea of formalizing support for continuous timecode = based upon a single value within a tag (as an alternate option to = timecode as side data), as it would be very easy to add or manipulate. = Also it is what is already done when ffmpeg rewraps a video with = timecode to Matroska. >> So it won't represent the source videotape if there's a timecode jump = or reset. But the method that Dave outlines here would at least allow = Matroska to mirror what happens with Aja/blackmagic capture tools using = v210/mov as the capture format. >> It's very difficult to find tools or examples of noncontinuous = timecode tracks.. > An example would be a digitally produced (in an NLE) mezzanine from a = number of ingested sources, where its timecodes map to the timecods in = the original sources - I've seen this used fairly often to facilitate = figuring out where a particular edit may come from in a final export or = mezzanine. >=20 I=E2=80=99ve seen some of these too. In QuickTime the timecode track = will still store a single value but then the track has an edit list to = manage the offsets at the points of discontinuity. Also in stream based = tape transfers like dv and m2ts from DV or HDV tape, non-continuous = timecode is rather common. Still IIUC support for timecode as side data = in ffmpeg is limited to a few formats and devices, so getting an input = from decklink would pass along timecode strings as side data, but the dv = decoder currently would not pass along such data. > I would need to dig up which NLEs, specifically, produce these. >=20 > Cheers, > - Derek >=20 Thanks, Dave= --Apple-Mail=_319CA198-99FB-44C5-95C9-A0CBFFBFC262 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = Oct 30, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Derek Buitenhuis <derek.buitenhuis@gmail.com> wrote:

=20 =20
On 30/10/2019 15:39, Kieran O Leary wrote:
Kind of, but all tape capture = software that I've encountered just stores the starting timecode value along with framerate and all other timecodes are based on this starting value.

This is most of my experience as well when = transferring as well, but to QuickTime files, where a timecode track = stores a single sample value and some properties to define the = incrementation. These timecode tracks are limited since they are based = upon a single value but very easy to edit, whereas storing timecode per = frame would require edits throughout the file to (for instance) apply an = offset to the entire timecode track.

Still I like the idea of formalizing support for = continuous timecode based upon a single value within a tag (as an = alternate option to timecode as side data), as it would be very easy to = add or manipulate. Also it is what is already done when ffmpeg rewraps a = video with timecode to Matroska.

So it won't represent the = source videotape if there's a timecode jump or reset. But the method that Dave outlines here would at least allow Matroska to mirror what happens with Aja/blackmagic capture tools using v210/mov as the capture format.
It's very difficult to find tools or = examples of noncontinuous timecode tracks..

An = example would be a digitally produced (in an NLE) mezzanine from a number of ingested sources, where its timecodes map to the timecods in the original sources - I've seen this used fairly often to facilitate figuring out where a particular edit may come from in a final export or = mezzanine.

I=E2=80=99ve seen = some of these too. In QuickTime the timecode track will still store a = single value but then the track has an edit list to manage the offsets = at the points of discontinuity. Also in stream based tape transfers like = dv and m2ts from DV or HDV tape, non-continuous timecode is rather = common. Still IIUC support for timecode as side data in ffmpeg is = limited to a few formats and devices, so getting an input from decklink = would pass along timecode strings as side data, but the dv decoder = currently would not pass along such data.

I would need to = dig up which NLEs, specifically, produce these.

Cheers,
- = Derek

Thanks,
Dave=
= --Apple-Mail=_319CA198-99FB-44C5-95C9-A0CBFFBFC262-- From nobody Wed Oct 30 09:29:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56F312087B for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:29:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xj93TfFb23or for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.mail.netstorage.at (mx02.mail.netstorage.at [89.207.146.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74F09120802 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p1002.netstorage.at (p1002.netstorage.at [89.207.146.186]) by mx02.mail.netstorage.at (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 571AAAF599 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:28:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailix (noaport.de [46.237.252.213]) by p1002.netstorage.at (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CFCBA80ED8 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:28:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.107] (HSI-KBW-46-237-252-214.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de [46.237.252.214]) by mailix with ESMTPSA (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128) ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:28:54 +0100 To: cellar@ietf.org References: <00F6A0BF-2922-4BAC-AC73-EB888767886F@dericed.com> <40b8c32e-9136-af70-e844-b9e9f2e1c75a@gmail.com> From: Tobias Rapp Organization: NOA GmbH Message-ID: <6cd23d59-f9d7-0ab8-3a0d-729f9f106de7@noa-archive.com> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:28:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PPP-Message-ID: <20191030162855.25210.93520@p1002.netstorage.at> X-PPP-Vhost: noa-archive.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] matroska and side data vs timecode X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 16:29:03 -0000 On 30.10.2019 16:39, Kieran O Leary wrote: > Kind of, but all tape capture software that I've encountered just stores > the starting timecode value along with framerate and all other timecodes > are based on this starting value. So it won't represent the source > videotape if there's a timecode jump or reset. Our NOA FrameLector software stores timecode start offset and jumps during the capturing process. It is using VITC and/or LTC as sources, depending on what is available. The timecode values are stored in an XML alongside the media file. When exporting the media file into other systems currently only the initial timecode offset is embedded into the MXF/MOV output file. The method of storing timecode as side-data for each frame has the disadvantage that all frame side-data must be read when building a timecode-to-playtime seeking table in players. Also the timecode information is lost when writing an audio-only variant of the file. Thus I think it would be better to store timecode data as a separate track, similar to how it could be done in MOV. Best regards, Tobias From nobody Thu Oct 31 01:09:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D8A120839; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 01:09:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Valery Smyslov via Datatracker To: Cc: last-call@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org, draft-ietf-cellar-ebml.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Valery Smyslov Message-ID: <157250938001.30360.4800852999851408878@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 01:09:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 08:09:40 -0000 Reviewer: Valery Smyslov Review result: Ready Reviewer: Valery Smyslov Review result: Ready I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. The draft describes an Extensible Binary Meta Language (EBML) format, that is a generalized file format for any type of data. As such the EBML itself doesn't include any mechanisms providing security services, besides marginal integrity check via crc32, that is optional and limited in use. The EBML relies on external mechanisms that would provide security services. The Security Considerations section describes various issues that the EBML implementations should take into consideration even in the presence of external cryptographic protection. The list of issues seems to be quite exhaustive for the EBML. I previously reviewed the -09 version of the draft. Comparing with the -09 version the Security Considerations section in the -13 version is expanded a bit, making the described security issues more clear.
Hi Derek

On Mon, 21 Oct 2019, 23:03 Derek Buitenhuis, = <derek.buitenhuis@gmail.co= m> wrote:
So over the last f= ew weeks, I wrote an FFV1 decoder from scatch, in Go,
trying to only reference the spec. Found a fair few spec issues, and
opened bugs for them all.
I think this is a fantas= tic project and it makes me feel like the specification is (or will be) muc= h more robust after your project. It's great to know that future decode= rs could be built from scratch just using the spec.
=

The idea was rather than make it fast or idiomatic, make it easy to
map parts of it back to the spec (via names and comments).

So, yeah, kinda ugly right, and very much not fast. It does have basic
slice threading, though.

Perhaps of use to some people on here.

I've ne= ver really used Go before but I hope to try this out tomorrow on some of ou= r files.



Link: https://github.com/dwbuiten/go-ffv1

Please note it only handles version 3 FFV1 files.

Thanks for this awesome wo= rk.

Best,

Kieran O'Leary,

Irish Film Institute


Cheers,
- Derek

_______________________________________________
Cellar mailing list
Cel= lar@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar<= /a>
--000000000000d23a010595733336-- From nobody Mon Oct 21 15:33:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E539112001E for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:33:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H2XArg5D7xPu for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26B90120A67 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id z9so15722156wrl.11 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:33:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=6XozXZfY9q8CNTqG5/uQVbrhMgnf/6j5OSvnQLZisi8=; b=lo56F4mO7ggSWtF2JlAdNp1S+TwB/5XaZNVZITN60CPk+UkIcuwZh9oXZazLZW1zvN G5WouvzMuwQCNB09mV3I0wdDyBmY/sbPa+2WepMD6QuPEhnwrQ4wPv8cRbyPlyVluY23 eFko5Gn9DFJgcvHZXzmc+B4WMMMjfhZCRAghcnqe8gUmN8QMx0mRGUVKpnucSjQU4tt4 3fYUzI9EFQhErwMazWwBBsL0RHTM3dxnSzG0Bue4s3+3zx49zzHs93XIsfd6ySGjYRhC iM7/vZ0bq7o+pDreNKwVAi4jMToVwX6JdO+bNHwkhRhYtpG2Rd2SsjBEbQJbNe79m05R TQbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=6XozXZfY9q8CNTqG5/uQVbrhMgnf/6j5OSvnQLZisi8=; b=ntl2QIYxeRjHKCp/hLvxEpEUBOhiJoXY7IONQg4i7uBkxb/1OnYawY8w4FCGszrc7+ yHMb7voVbnkhb5sdZyHpBs5OAbIywQa60i8yIAKbh5HFGXy10lb4WGl9QltDVLNTFlmP 0rkw+Ikayc4ooJGgwcIExS0yrSC0f5EXEWXhKuL5Z+aqxb+2qNM78so5tU7rcXnb/6Nl rttOEzkdzrf4YDSn7lYWmuR/YaHJLu/xnj2xoKitouOXUcjQvOjUT/pnIJK0zeB0S7Wq HZenzNa3mb/EvTNlUhgWC2rpVCIxs39585N7cPTsCRPmrvilrIOxiZkSlcoTCvshm4BN tPLw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVLPODM1ZMxUiCQqVE4wo3bjttuNt5peq8RtHf6xL8p/6JI256F lgLuunJPzj7O4Y3jsmHa3We2KMv4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzGrV+3kEL4ufZ5Gn5rMos3XRKIAjCz6eFbZWWH6yBHxOhsfIqCO6IBnWTwCNnB+avJ0rSw4A== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8295:: with SMTP id 21mr460168wrc.14.1571697191396; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([82.129.88.112]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z13sm18873769wrm.64.2019.10.21.15.33.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:33:10 -0700 (PDT) To: Kieran O Leary Cc: cellar@ietf.org References: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> From: Derek Buitenhuis Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 23:33:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:33:15 -0000 On 21/10/2019 23:28, Kieran O Leary wrote: > I think this is a fantastic project and it makes me feel like the specification is (or will be) much more robust after your project. It's great to know that future decoders could be built from scratch just using the spec. Indeed, that was the intent. > I've never really used Go before but I hope to try this out tomorrow on some of our files. Note that right now it's just a package with an API; I haven't pushed up a usuable CLI tool yet. It also lacks, for example, some DPX-specific stuff that RAWCooked has, so the color may not be correct for those right now. Also, maybe bugs. Probably bugs. Cheers, - Derek From nobody Mon Oct 21 15:56:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC585120A47 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:56:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QnpueYmgEhX7 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F7F412083B for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 15:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69903897A; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6649119CE; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:56:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Derek Buitenhuis cc: cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> References: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 22:56:40 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Derek Buitenhuis wrote: > So over the last few weeks, I wrote an FFV1 decoder from scatch, in Go, > trying to only reference the spec. Found a fair few spec issues, and > opened bugs for them all. WOOHOO... more Running Code. This is a wonderful thing to do! Thank you for opening the bugs too! -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl2uN6IACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWebwf+MapLadamVtSO2loB7W45gusdlCL4TD3Edf+EOSINs2nuMyiFC+jZz6b1 TJi/xV7Vf/TE61o3r6Mx8210Pp41TMDkanAjJCqxIOTqbluqSDvFJ1mkWhO1DGsq 2Hv4Bi75/lYnDbVKbJ1xJW2H9/i62MnBK9yrr09Gl/+NGWduebb2ystj0kTED+vD zTZo1AwLu7Y/+Fmophkn08mmugwW81tkW6ajesNLV8Y6ba5DCtv29Ab5MKqfum5A ck0WPxruyqqMxa/rMi/cmZ4a2mPBrLnCMh1aO1TVqtyqePUamCE4GanUWgGF2Zl6 cRX/RW7xTDWgzFjp8/7uc7tyRmt3zg== =9rvS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Oct 22 07:50:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C23F120152 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id whyDtRLhir1w for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 07:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFBDD120086 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 07:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.infomaniak.ch (smtp7.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.30]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9MEo2aV016586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:50:02 +0200 Received: from Castor ([85.114.48.126]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp7.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9MEo1JV143544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:50:01 +0200 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:50:02 +0200 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <29604.1569289989@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT AGENDA for VIRTUAL INTERIM meeting 2019-09-24 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 14:50:08 -0000 Michael Richardson wrote: >CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting >September 24, 2019 19:00 UTC I am currently at the FIAT/IFTA conference and will probably not be able to join the call. Sorry for that! Reto AV Preservation by reto.ch chemin du Suchet 5 | 1024 Ecublens | Switzerland Web: | Twitter: @retoch From nobody Tue Oct 22 10:54:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4774B1200B9; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:54:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.107.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157176686623.2990.16902492091509684626@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:54:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 17:54:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : Extensible Binary Meta Language Authors : Steve Lhomme Dave Rice Moritz Bunkus Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13.txt Pages : 53 Date : 2019-10-22 Abstract: This document defines the Extensible Binary Meta Language (EBML) format as a generalized file format for any type of data in a hierarchical form. EBML is designed as a binary equivalent to XML and uses a storage-efficient approach to build nested Elements with identifiers, lengths, and values. Similar to how an XML Schema defines the structure and semantics of an XML Document, this document defines how EBML Schemas are created to convey the semantics of an EBML Document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 22 16:10:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D4512012E for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubLa9jHny-B3 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DECA512006A for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF04B3898B for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 19:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E834877 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 19:10:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: cellar@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] 2019-12-03 moved to 2019-12-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 23:10:16 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain At the call today, many said they could not make 2019-12-03, and we moved the meeting to 2019-12-10. When I asked to move the meeting, the secretariat pointed out that it was at 20:00UTC not 19:00UTC. After confirming 19:00 UTC, I then wondered if, since this meeting will be after switch to standard time, if some would prefer it was 20:00UTC instead. Please discuss. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl2vjFQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WU/iwf8CdfzgU1bPlnRjzThNJtHTWC/7D1tW+GFfnI0OM+l/tCaEIvBNTS6820W 03SGF+vVs8IghlvhDxv+x05+nJ6gm5b0Gac8A/h5Q7NDl32VZdqUc2zBnTKpN3VD du/oS5dtXMvRk26FCW88mDBLOY/cmkr2i1ez0Ewr9f3SNP3geEBJAD5FrhNuQ6e5 urtPfDpqBsZi0/NOjI7wo6ygVdFxujBjHTFlUSqHW36njbro+Dkg3iH6C0O6o/tz y8vIEAbtaiWvlKOp7RzHPE2MfDXFWIKZiUyjQfd1+xbyDvDEK0GNhAXZwbnrzYBg mQCV/bZnfqcCg9Q3KMtdNibngm6Cqg== =F5zw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Oct 23 05:56:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D4A12081B for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:56:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D35O-hnMQDFa for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 10.mo178.mail-out.ovh.net (10.mo178.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.76.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42B0C1207FF for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from player728.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.108.42.82]) by mo178.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE017C9DE for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:56:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mediaarea.net (p548F9A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.143.154.113]) (Authenticated sender: jerome@mediaarea.net) by player728.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 18E8CB3B4E08 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:56:15 +0000 (UTC) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <30641.1571785812@localhost> From: Jerome Martinez Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:56:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <30641.1571785812@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 5615988737507594385 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrkeelgdehkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] 2019-12-03 moved to 2019-12-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:56:21 -0000 On 23/10/2019 01:10, Michael Richardson wrote: > After confirming 19:00 UTC, I then wondered if, since this meeting will be > after switch to standard time, if some would prefer it was 20:00UTC instead. IMO it is better to keep the same local time, so 20:00UTC at this moment. Jérôme From nobody Wed Oct 23 07:11:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18D7B12081C; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 07:11:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.107.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157183988204.19989.9551110460168106420@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 07:11:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-11.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:11:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : FFV1 Video Coding Format Version 0, 1, and 3 Authors : Michael Niedermayer Dave Rice Jerome Martinez Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-11.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2019-10-23 Abstract: This document defines FFV1, a lossless intra-frame video encoding format. FFV1 is designed to efficiently compress video data in a variety of pixel formats. Compared to uncompressed video, FFV1 offers storage compression, frame fixity, and self-description, which makes FFV1 useful as a preservation or intermediate video format. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 23 07:11:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F5012090B; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 07:11:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.107.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <157183988670.19884.10791143512290408850@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 07:11:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-08.txt X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:11:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission WG of the IETF. Title : FFV1 Video Coding Format Version 4 Authors : Michael Niedermayer Dave Rice Jerome Martinez Filename : draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-08.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2019-10-23 Abstract: This document defines FFV1, a lossless intra-frame video encoding format. FFV1 is designed to efficiently compress video data in a variety of pixel formats. Compared to uncompressed video, FFV1 offers storage compression, frame fixity, and self-description, which makes FFV1 useful as a preservation or intermediate video format. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 23 08:00:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F10B71209AF; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.107.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <157184279589.19884.6730671683567034676@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 07:59:55 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-12-10 CHANGED X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:59:56 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-12-10 from 20:00 to 21:00 Europe/Paris. Agenda: (No agenda submitted) Information about remote participation: https://appear.in/cellar-interim From nobody Wed Oct 23 08:58:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1B312013B for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:58:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BhhqoEs4dLU6 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zucker2.schokokeks.org (zucker2.schokokeks.org [178.63.68.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA4D6120289 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.11] (212095006050.public.telering.at [::ffff:212.95.6.50]) (AUTH: PLAIN bubestinger@schokokeks.org, ) by zucker.schokokeks.org with ESMTPSA id 000000000000015A.000000005DB07895.00002D20; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:58:13 +0200 Cc: cellar@ietf.org References: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> From: "Peter B." Message-ID: <062ba800-3549-aec8-84c4-83c704465093@das-werkstatt.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:58:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:58:18 -0000 Dear Derek, Very interesting indeed! :D How was it to read and interpret the specs? Anything unclear/missing? Kind regards, Peter On 22/10/2019 00:33, Derek Buitenhuis wrote: > On 21/10/2019 23:28, Kieran O Leary wrote: >> I think this is a fantastic project and it makes me feel like the specification is (or will be) much more robust after your project. It's great to know that future decoders could be built from scratch just using the spec. > Indeed, that was the intent. > >> I've never really used Go before but I hope to try this out tomorrow on some of our files. > Note that right now it's just a package with an API; I haven't pushed up a usuable CLI tool yet. It also lacks, for example, some DPX-specific stuff that RAWCooked has, so the color may not be correct for those right now. > > Also, maybe bugs. Probably bugs. > > Cheers, > - Derek > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > From nobody Wed Oct 23 13:46:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A51120100; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:45:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: cellar@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.107.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <157186355833.28271.8611443938125504097@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:45:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-12-10 CHANGED X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:45:59 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2019-12-10 from 21:00 to 22:00 Europe/Paris. Agenda: (No agenda submitted) Information about remote participation: https://appear.in/cellar-interim From nobody Wed Oct 23 15:01:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563D7120106 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:01:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Ql0uZNpnJ02 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1476312008B for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD00F3897E for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516EB913 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:01:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <157186355833.28271.8611443938125504097@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <157186355833.28271.8611443938125504097@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG Virtual Meeting: 2019-12-10 CHANGED X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:01:06 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain IESG Secretary wrote: > The Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission > (cellar) Working Group will hold > a virtual interim meeting on 2019-12-10 from 21:00 to 22:00 > Europe/Paris. Note 9pm Paris, which should be the same local time as it is now, right? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl2wzZwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVOUQf/egg1Up9sXsDw06YJ7OzNpD5QO+46asMjJ1NDYmWzUtH9fjjPk+h5lkH/ gGkuy0Hch8gna8+D8NPgZfsYbnM3htCjrMYUCszQfp4NBSx1uydW1StNk927UAis vu2VXEPOXisJtGtX3AAvVJ/dA2+4cXO+EQlbyhpByIVxZMNrtCDo6bg8+6KHYALQ bLk3qJKeczBySvd/GtVQ0hAXwJN9Ct3Zs3gkiahGrqJ08tsaiy0IUrx5z/DWI/Sd Mp4Eu35XiBr7FxoMDFVXLi8hs4FC5Yy6iDs2q5+v0bWQ6977n1klOOSXTDIa5cCh vNhF89A2gU89Lo3BpxAm0N3+VDjZRA== =UxrJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Oct 24 02:12:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9874E120059 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 02:11:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j6WOH8CVTRje for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 02:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10655120024 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 02:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.infomaniak.ch (smtp7.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.30]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9O9BrBG018569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:11:53 +0200 Received: from Castor ([85.114.48.126]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp7.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x9O9BnWl064008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:11:53 +0200 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:11:53 +0200 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <30641.1571785812@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] 2019-12-03 moved to 2019-12-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:11:58 -0000 Michael Richardson wrote: >At the call today, many said they could not make 2019-12-03, >and we moved the meeting to 2019-12-10. I'll be teaching in Hyderabad all week (UTC+05:30), and cannot be on the call. Sorry for that! Reto AV Preservation by reto.ch chemin du Suchet 5 | 1024 Ecublens | Switzerland Web: | Twitter: @retoch From nobody Thu Oct 24 03:13:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A07120DA4 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 03:13:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4eZFae7hNMz for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 03:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F5B5120DBA for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 03:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id r1so15598836wrs.9 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 03:13:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Bo4lrsKDAjceB31G0I8OAAppNudc2ajH5yppORYvvTk=; b=acUX8s0YG897mp4+IOZ2v/ElsziQJUIzVgx2zW+IRucecnv8EG3s8nCPLhZh+PLe9k sgs/NUNtFyiMjio9Ib3Z+RtKNkSjbxO5v24GNFj3jfl+3MR10lADHj8+9Dxryo7Ka2lr gW3F0HYqlLDIHc9P5dkoNrztl16F6wXm2pjB77LoN6cEBcFrlgmesOzgHVn53zfN5OXN cVWAaLVDjdGwYP436XQuJlnRzr1J6rwoxQYtyybUyh8gJliB45lcubHH2rrcl1fkCe0p NhaE3suBVaT0pt3hvjemnNAdgYIw1TArJlEuaCwrKaFDcC0CFK/A4yrfYYaZI/R1GfE5 fOrA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Bo4lrsKDAjceB31G0I8OAAppNudc2ajH5yppORYvvTk=; b=DGbl/FkYZjy6t+RF1o38kTeJNJggWXB31q//WKHC6wPkxofwGp/1c4HWMymQrc5g0q CDZWeEV2KUA3iCh+vbixFQ3t0GKIuVmA7thg5MzD6qD2c0r+IsHDag/sUb30GIbyZ/JS 193OoODRzHp130nYU0I77pnystaFkoZOA2L+ZNCLM+sSNoGuGOr06U5+w2FPY479HuIg mV+ArGqLBtXC+0tHXkHtHE2sQdqtopdVIjPAACWztXAS5X6WFKMhabTS7DvZwdtX/VJ9 BlDDfwTQFukST3lh5mqZ0Wg7+267iuI+Vem/Pj8WkXdazi4KQstmYxcMvBgvQdu8gn6F Kilw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXXCUZao7vCWjfOlDCTjasGLlTOCJZ5YTVX4LIxazJ573uH5GSu +F/ibQsb9WhQpgu5MdZ/+y46u0+EOn2HTMKb/EbL8cHx3v8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwhcupzsoz9e/G/y+0ZlKy0/P9MoODOmVdmKcyKLi2R5pnteuQgEXgUHDbPhj0xsiD3Msw/tear5cvvdFqoTJA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:11c4:: with SMTP id i4mr3010735wrx.277.1571911987067; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 03:13:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3ef03e7c-a221-1f1f-4345-af82ea3ab080@gmail.com> <062ba800-3549-aec8-84c4-83c704465093@das-werkstatt.com> In-Reply-To: <062ba800-3549-aec8-84c4-83c704465093@das-werkstatt.com> From: Ashley Blewer Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 06:13:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Peter B." Cc: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b80880595a54791" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Hark, a decoder! X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:13:12 -0000 --0000000000009b80880595a54791 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am looking forward to Derek speaking about this topic at the upcoming No Time To Wait conference in early December. Peter, I know you'll be there so you'll get to see it -- and for everyone else following along, we offer a livestream of this conference and videos are added pretty quickly afterwards. Ashley On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 11:58 AM Peter B. wrote: > Dear Derek, > > Very interesting indeed! :D > > How was it to read and interpret the specs? > Anything unclear/missing? > > > Kind regards, > Peter > > > > On 22/10/2019 00:33, Derek Buitenhuis wrote: > > On 21/10/2019 23:28, Kieran O Leary wrote: > >> I think this is a fantastic project and it makes me feel like the > specification is (or will be) much more robust after your project. It's > great to know that future decoders could be built from scratch just using > the spec. > > Indeed, that was the intent. > > > >> I've never really used Go before but I hope to try this out tomorrow on > some of our files. > > Note that right now it's just a package with an API; I haven't pushed up > a usuable CLI tool yet. It also lacks, for example, some DPX-specific stuff > that RAWCooked has, so the color may not be correct for those right now. > > > > Also, maybe bugs. Probably bugs. > > > > Cheers, > > - Derek > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cellar mailing list > > Cellar@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > --0000000000009b80880595a54791 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking forward to Derek speaking about this top= ic at the upcoming No Time = To Wait conference in early December. Peter, I know you'll be there= so you'll get to see it -- and for everyone else following along, we o= ffer a livestream of this conference and videos are added pretty quickly af= terwards.

Ashley

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at = 11:58 AM Peter B. <pb@das-werkst= att.com> wrote:
Dear Derek,

Very interesting indeed! :D

How was it to read and interpret the specs?
Anything unclear/missing?


Kind regards,
Peter



On 22/10/2019 00:33, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> On 21/10/2019 23:28, Kieran O Leary wrote:
>> I think this is a fantastic project and it makes me feel like the = specification is (or will be) much more robust after your project. It's= great to know that future decoders could be built from scratch just using = the spec.
> Indeed, that was the intent.
>
>> I've never really used Go before but I hope to try this out to= morrow on some of our files.
> Note that right now it's just a package with an API; I haven't= pushed up a usuable CLI tool yet. It also lacks, for example, some DPX-spe= cific stuff that RAWCooked has, so the color may not be correct for those r= ight now.
>
> Also, maybe bugs. Probably bugs.
>
> Cheers,
> - Derek
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cellar mailing list
> Cellar@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar >

_______________________________________________
Cellar mailing list
Cellar@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar
--0000000000009b80880595a54791-- From nobody Thu Oct 24 05:26:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD24120104 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 05:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=IUqmTWG7; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ts1aNEVB Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LM2TeFIWFFQc for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 05:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1228B1200FA for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 05:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEAAB447; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap1 ([10.202.2.51]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:26:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm1; bh=LPFpEdXLAg0+0MQIgbcpqdOfL0OSiVd 9XEdzLAGR98E=; b=IUqmTWG70hbUB4aqgChIMkTS6ZWmk9KuA3BYoWv4cRUU58r /wkUe9ohKhBOE2xOYx9+Io7R4hMsT42kw+maMS/yUt6+mKRL2V9VqoVwXZVXoL2+ URHjL/lW5U/DtNap3Sl+H69nS5ierQMLOmhkhZJAEaSsee8YOYDtMYxrLar5ovsC m4lpVSem+u0rxtgt2vkLFc1ycWk5KE6FfPLp3UsgRGhVY8xQJ09qoUb2n780RQVb IBKt4j7v7zz3pM4P7txxP5tDld6gOvNCGqH1g7CyFD/wpE0qAfFBU4sS9XapONF5 Nx6LaOuMt+ojyEdsN0ww3ukP12D+Xi3uDvtKx2g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=LPFpEd XLAg0+0MQIgbcpqdOfL0OSiVd9XEdzLAGR98E=; b=ts1aNEVBSnREoNe5JYIhBR C7eaiPOsBSZme73J3CoqpJqGrIWfA3iu5aPJ33pxFI2KAe/HVug9IBT4TbMXbrZz w5oVDguhSGjpBAqV8VeZMb4k1T7zWyhZPHWEc/2CpcIvMvPCXPSOFng+LNgrvdaO s9D5NnUcfDhZG+ajAMOXeBlwtL88SLzokqofKGxdYUw5yI0QGmyWj6kfgxVP2Am3 vk3VvGloZ14/f3ilhSwbCKwqtatc7Dj8nj8U16ky+fmCuQ+nHbF/XzBPdfvw6GMF /taotkpEbPlXThC7ymUTiCKP2nEKvEIt21tbSO7u5aULfeQNsFWSYbm6nbkUDWdQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrledugdehudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtre dtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdetlhgvgigvhicuofgvlhhnihhkohhvfdcuoegrrghmvghl nhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe grrghmvghlnhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigv pedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id DE2C9C200A5; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:26:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-470-gedfae93-fmstable-20191021v4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3835cda8-7bfb-4178-bec7-b0acff9327ba@www.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:25:55 +0100 From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: "Michael Richardson" , cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Second AD review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:26:33 -0000 Hi Michael, Replying to an old message: On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, at 9:25 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > On 2019-07-03 9:44 a.m., Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > I think you need to be clearer on what you expect to appear on IANA's page. Do you expect a reference and/or description field in addition to a DocType name? I suspect you would also need the Change Controller field (who registered the value and can update the description). > > > > DocType string values of "matroska" and "webm" are RESERVED to the > > IETF for future use. These can be assigned via the "IESG Approval" > > or "RFC Required" policies [RFC8126]. > > > > The last sentence is odd, but then I realized that you only reserve these two names and will attempt to assign them separately in the future. I suppose the current text is Ok. > > > > Hi, we struggled with how we should initialize the DocType registry, > since we expect "matroska" to be used by draft-ietf-cellar-matroska, and > we expect "webm" to only be given to some new work (from google) that > would define that format. > > A decision as to who is the legitimate documentator of the (existing) > "webm" DocType would be up to the IESG. Is "webm" will be worked on in this WG? > This text was suggested by IANA! Ok then :-)! Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Thu Oct 24 05:34:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93143120105 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 05:34:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=I31LsV7z; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=P8lHX7Mc Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nry5XRHgw9Yw for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9A9D120026 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129DF45A; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap1 ([10.202.2.51]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:34:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm1; bh=6Rukjh092m42fkhxwTrzpJB8PHRXvob VqBUvQJXjbqw=; b=I31LsV7zYRsiJSYNbpsSirwFyiZtMH68IAIGSR9aMWL6lpn rzepLj6G7Ry8ZOM9uaRlRBILway0hLJaq7h9rST3Yf5kZuBYHHlVkpJ/1RITDjmG Lcly2FGqD64T0L4o9AWn4Up/ogc49bHHKw5qeGxPAMBpwcEyepoiYj1xpuXCUCu1 X6ZY0eUCfvxm8JyWctoIjcnCvJ+fdJIHlBT8ByopUd5cDcUS0Qzrqkh5NpMlJoSd 9bd8P2U8P2rP33qePNobH1MqfdJZCNhr8x5l0Fv1GmdgUbdPP9xJ5iHQ0GIfrgRW CMsgMbSwn/6Y4zKUnPMVq3PtVwv+B/5coyItXXQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=6Rukjh 092m42fkhxwTrzpJB8PHRXvobVqBUvQJXjbqw=; b=P8lHX7Mck6+q6dJQSE+a92 DzLWgiszTR+cL3CqNg2kNmBWMgSHwwuOi7LKEJtPhnUqSc8gtZQ9Hqy5I1alzmdG 4BJmB9FhUxVJpC0Mrm/XZYQ73+pHxCk5ARKHI5I8GjwdEe0i0wgTk+UujtJ7XLRA suTbpav16ZbK1eEnG7EM3YppxwiA3GVdRrBmPNV0jL+YfWRKFNKxenVhDGHnnS5Q bVJTA8GNvbr2KiQ2Kl83s9s34e6qISntNVZy0ZqgeIEIxgNPkaJOvKB2ql3M2rM3 Wc6TE9LzdrzFnxWk3Twn4evgn6NYNOOzErhS3F+OOkwxlP/GubzhoJus6N/Q/KLg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrledugdehfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsegrtderreerreejnecuhfhrohhmpedftehlvgig vgihucfovghlnhhikhhovhdfuceorggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfh hmqeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhr ohhmpegrrghmvghlnhhikhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmhenucevlhhushhtvghruf hiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 40D3BC200A5; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:34:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-470-gedfae93-fmstable-20191021v4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <8cdc2a28-787b-419e-84b5-9b998a18390d@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <89CEEC4A-78D9-40BF-8A4D-732C7A199F30@dericed.com> References: <3835cda8-7bfb-4178-bec7-b0acff9327ba@www.fastmail.com> <52b3f63f-fddb-4438-be5f-f61359307f98@www.fastmail.com> <89CEEC4A-78D9-40BF-8A4D-732C7A199F30@dericed.com> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:57 +0100 From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: "Dave Rice" Cc: cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=7893603c0c424a8782f54a1bf7303050 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Second AD review of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-10 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:34:35 -0000 --7893603c0c424a8782f54a1bf7303050 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave, On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 2:53 PM, Dave Rice wrote: >> On Jul 11, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Alexey Melnikov = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Dave, >> I removed comments where we are in agreement. A few followups: >>=20 >> On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Dave Rice wrote: >>> Hello Alexey, >>>=20 >>> Thanks much for providing this thorough review. I=E2=80=99ll try to = reply point by point below with references to either pull requests or is= sues or offer followup questions. In a few places I ping Steve Lhomme an= d Michael Richardson as the comments relate to text they originated in t= heir work. >>>=20 >>>> EBMLElementOccurrence =3D [EBMLMinOccurrence] "*" [EBMLMaxOccurrenc= e] >>>> EBMLMinOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>> EBMLMaxOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>>=20 >>>> Are there any upper limits on allowed values for these fields? Even= if you don't encode them using ABNF, it would be good to mention them i= n an ABNF comment. >>>>=20 >>>> VariableParentOccurrence =3D [PathMinOccurrence] "*" [PathMaxOccurr= ence] >>>> PathMinOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>> PathMaxOccurrence =3D 1*DIGIT >>>>=20 >>>> Same comment as above. >>>=20 >>> I looked for examples of that sort of commenting but didn=E2=80=99t = find much guidance. Eventually I simply appended " ; no upper limit=E2=80= =9D to each of the four referenced lines and added that to https://githu= b.com/cellar-wg/ebml-specification/pull/265. >> I think this is the wrong fix. Is it sufficient for an implementation= to use 32 bit value to represent any of these? 64 bit value? >> "no upper limit" is not going to be interoperable. >=20 > The smallest possible EBML Element is 2 bytes (1 bytes Element ID, 1 b= yte Element Data Size, and 0 bytes of Element Data). The upper limit of = how many occurrences would be determined by the limit of the Element Dat= a Size of the Parent Element. If the EBML Document has EBMLMaxSizeLength= as the default of 8, then the upper limit of an Element Data Size is 72= ,057,594,037,927,934 bytes. Is the smallest possible Element is 2 bytes,= then the upper limit of that Element=E2=80=99s occurrence would be 72,0= 57,594,037,927,934 divided by two. >=20 > So if EBMLMaxSizeLength =3D 8, then this is possible >=20 > > # 36,028,797,018,963,967 occurrences > >=20 > but this would overflow the Element Data Size of the Root Element > > # 36,028,797,018,963,968 occurrences > >=20 > However, EBML allows the EBML Document Type to set an EBMLMaxSizeLengt= h value higher than 8, and as that is incremented up the upper limit wou= ld expand exponentially. I will try one more time: if I write an implementation that has hardcode= d limit of 8 would it be considered compliant with this specification. I= think asking to support arbitrary length values is a big ask. > In my draft I would considering "no upper limit=E2=80=9D and 36,028,79= 7,018,963,967 to effectively be the same or that the definition does not= define the limit but in practice it would be limited by the capacity of= the Element Data Size of the parent Element. I will let the document start IETF LC without this issue being fully res= olved, but I suspect it will come up again during IESG review. >>>> 11.1.10.1. label >>>>=20 >>>> The label provides a concise expression for human consumption that= >>>> describes what the value of the "" represents. >>>>=20 >>>> Is it worth adding a cross reference to the "lang" attribute here? >>>=20 >>> Do you mean to express the language of the term used within the labe= l? Currently the language of the label is undefined and since it is an a= ttribute that label is not repeatable. >>=20 >> To be honest I am not yet sure how I feel about "undefined language" = here. Need to think about that. >> But either way, I think adding some text that "lang" attribute doesn'= t apply would be helpful. >=20 > In the case of Matroska, the labels are in English. In the EBML defini= tion we could say that the labels are in English unless the definition o= f that associated EBML Document Type claims otherwise. Ok. >>>> 12. Considerations for Reading EBML Data >>>>=20 >>>> If a Master Element contains a CRC-32 Element that doesn't validat= e, >>>> then the EBML Reader MAY ignore all contained data except for >>>> Descendant Elements that contain their own valid CRC-32 Element. >>>>=20 >>>> I don't fully understand your use of "MAY ... except ..." here. >>>> Can you elaborate on why would an implementation ignore data contai= ned in a Master Element and not ignore Descendant Elements, even if they= own CRC-32 is valid? >>>=20 >>> For instance if a Matroska file has three metadata tags and each has= a CRC value and so does the parent Tags element like this. >>>=20 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>=20 >>> We=E2=80=99re trying to say that even though the contents of the element is invalid, that the valid child elements may still be used.= >> So to me this means that after discarding all invalid elements you en= d up with something like this: >>=20 >> >> >> >>=20 >> As this is an incomplete document, I am struggling to understand what= it can be used for? >=20 > In that case, the valid Tags are still useful even if within a parent = element whos contents are invalid. Perhaps another example would be in t= he Attachments Element: >=20 > > Poster Art > Subtitle Font > >=20 > Here some bit damage occurs to the Poster Art so the Attachment and it= s parent Attachments now have invalid crcs, however the subtitle font is= still ok and could be used in the presentation without an issue. I suggest some examples along the lines of your reply should be added to= the document. This is not a property commonly found in IETF formats, so= talking more about it would be useful. Best Regards, Alexey --7893603c0c424a8782f54a1bf7303050 Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave,

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 2:53 PM, Dave Rice wrot= e:
On Jul 11, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Ale= xey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Hi Dave,
I removed comments where we are in agreement. A few = followups:

= On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Dave Rice wrote:
Hello Al= exey,

Thanks much for providing this thorough review. I=E2=80=99= ll try to reply point by point below with references to either pull requ= ests or issues or offer followup questions. In a few places I ping Steve= Lhomme and Michael Richardson as the comments relate to text they origi= nated in their work.

=
<= div class=3D"qt-qt-">
EBMLElementOccurrence  &nbs= p; =3D [EBMLMinOccurrence] "*" [EBMLMaxOccurrence]
EBMLMinOccurrence        = =3D 1*DIGIT
EBMLMaxOccurrence   &n= bsp;    =3D 1*DIGIT

=
Are there any upper limits on allowed values fo= r these fields? Even if you don't encode them using ABNF, it would be go= od to mention them in an ABNF comment.

<= /div>
VariableParentOccurrence =3D [PathMinOccurrence]= "*" [PathMaxOccurrence]
PathMinOccurrence &= nbsp;      =3D 1*DIGIT
PathMaxOccurrence        =3D= 1*DIGIT

Same c= omment as above.
I looked for examples of that sort of comment= ing but didn=E2=80=99t find much guidance. Eventually I simply appended = " ; no upper limit=E2=80=9D to each of the four referenced lines an= d added that to https://github.com/cellar-wg/ebml-spe= cification/pull/265.
I think this is t= he wrong fix. Is it sufficient for an implementation to use 32 bit value= to represent any of these? 64 bit value?
"no upper limit" is not g= oing to be interoperable.

The smallest possible EBML Element is 2 bytes (1 bytes Element ID, 1 b= yte Element Data Size, and 0 bytes of Element Data). The upper limit of = how many occurrences would be determined by the limit of the Element Dat= a Size of the Parent Element. If the EBML Document has EBMLMaxSizeL= ength as the default of 8, then the upper limit of an Element Data Size = is 72,057,594,037,927,934 bytes. Is the smallest possible Element i= s 2 bytes, then the upper limit of that Element=E2=80=99s occurrence wou= ld be 72,057,594,037,927,934 divided by two.

So if EBMLMaxSizeLength =3D 8, then this is possible

<RootElement>
<TwoByteElement/> &= nbsp;# 36,028,797,018,963,967 occurrences
</RootEl= ement>

but this would overflow the Eleme= nt Data Size of the Root Element
<RootElement><= br>
<TwoByteElement/>  # 36,028,797,018,963,968 oc= currences
</RootElement>

However, EBML allows the EBML Document Type to set an EBMLMaxSize= Length value higher than 8, and as that is incremented up the upper limi= t would expand exponentially.